Bob "Ninja" Poras - Inside CIA's Global Response Staff | SRS #45 (Part 2)

hey everybody this is part two of a. two-part series with my friend ninja a. former CIA and Delta Force operator in. this. episode you are going to hear the inside. scoop of a lot of the things that went. on inside CIA when ninja and I were both. there it's a raw honest. discussion that is very rare you're. probably never going to get this much of. an insight side and that organization.

again I hope you all enjoy it please. like comment and. subscribe to the channel check out the. clips Channel if you haven't checked. that out leave us a review on Spotify. and iTunes we're kind of lacking on the. Spotify reviews so if you guys could. help us out I would really appreciate it. so my team sign up for the vigilance. Elite newsletter gummy bears are coming. back that's how you're going to find out. where the link is to buy them all right.

love you all cheers enjoy this episode. I'll see you soon previously on the. Shawn Ryan Show you're down in Panama. operation just caused this is when we. pulled Nora out correct yep jump out of. the the bush out of the Jungle put my. gun at him and I said get on the ground. mother we've decided to take you on as. apprentice which means you get to go to. the operator training course but you do. a lot of shooting in a DC I mean you.

dumping some rounds in OTC to get good. with a pistol and a rifle showing up at. Delta you guys took losses had you taken. any losses no no not not no that was. that was the big one so before we get. into the Contracting days in the early. part of Iraq Let's uh let's take a quick. break. [Music]. good so we left off you just started. working for Triple Canopy I think you.

said it was around 0 03 late 03 is when. I they I was at a unit function and. that's when uh the founders and all that. had um a great idea to put together it. was Triple Canopy uh security company. and uh were those former unit guys yep. that uh started that yeah okay and there. are some guys from the counterparts in. the Navy to help you know manage or. staff the hierarchy of the company that. time so great group of.

guys and and. uh I'd always said if I was going to do. this kind of thing that you know there's. bunch of clowns out there a bunch of. companies that just run in a muck and I. wasn't going to do that uh heard this. pitch and I was like well who who's in. it who who's it going to be is it just. going to be in namesake and have a. couple guys at the top to have the name. or and they said NOP it's going to be. you know former uh uni guys uh former. tier one guys um not just the unit um.

our Navy. counterparts. um saw man was one of them he was he was. on the crew um so we got to work with. him again uh yeah there there's a bunch. of good guys on the initial crew. um yeah and then by 04 so go to Chicago. where we were at the time headquarter. that's where it started and then um all. of 04 most of 04 in Iraq uh spinning in.

spinning That Thing Up. Drive interesting and the so contract. Contracting at the time plus my previous. experience was military experience now. I'm a private. contractor uh very eye openening you. know not the coverage in the back stop. you have when you're in the military. there's no helicopters and all that. stuff coming uh depends on where you are. but you have to coordinate for it and. you're a civilian so uh military comes.

first right um so understanding all that. right that. was that was good to know interesting to. find out all those kind of nuances about. the whole Contracting World um and I was. just going to be a site manager uh get a. group of guys and run a protection. detail and all those kind of things. ended up to be a little bit more than. that but um I was fine with it had a. little army up north Iraq eventually. nice yeah trained them and static. security a guard Force plus a protective.

detail and all that kind of stuff. um so uh yep so I felt you know I needed. to do something for the. the the global war on terror I I got out. right before as that as that was. happening. so uh jump back on the bandwagon then. it's good pay like what's the worst. going to happen I'm going to Iraq yeah.

right um yeah and then found out you. know uh as we're piecing things together. in Chicago and uh what do we need gear. equipment uh spare parts accessories for. AKs and all those kind of whatever kind. of weapon systems we're going to get. we're going to get in country and all. those kind of things. um uh we ended up driving in from Jordan.

um down highway one from Jordan all the. way to. Baghdad um we actually hired taxis that. came from Baghdad came out to get us and. we're driving. back um with some folks that were there. um so they they knew the area they knew. Baghdad and the streets and all that. stuff so they were already in Baghdad. they came out to get us drove in long. drive the driver stopped at one point. and said we're not going any further we. happened to be right outside of um.

right in between we're on Highway One. between ratti and. fuia and they pulled over and it was. like what do you guys what you what are. we. doing they all got out of the car went. across the street and sat down and like. what do we got to sit in going on what's. going on and uh you know it was the. whole thing about getting guns too I. mean we weren't going to get guns till. we got across the border in Iraq where. we're gonna meet some guy you know. bonati thing going on little Black. Market stuff going on or whatever was.

going on it was all planned to get guns. when we got inside cross the border stop. get guns get ammo and continue on a. Bagdad stoping between ratti and. fuia. uh it was convin all we could do to. convince them they they didn't want to. go to Baghdad because it was too. dangerous and we're like well you. probably should have told us that to. begin with right cuz we're not staying. here on Highway One between in Rani fuia.

yeah no [ __ ] at that time not a good. place to hang out there wasn't a whole. lot of good places to hang out in Iraq. and 04 yeah um so that was another. depending on what you're. doing intro to Contracting 101 right. there um eventually ended up convincing. him it was the right thing to do for. their country and everything else you. know and you know fed them a bunch of. crap and they bought it and continued to. drive in the bag down for us and uh the.

thing in in. um you can. see uh you know off of Highway one where. we were you can see. uh some of fuia on the horizon off in. the distance in the desert and one of. the things was um you know uh so there. was a uh there was a gal with me driving. in my Suburban there were Suburban uh. White in Orange taxis typical see in.

Baghdad um or anywhere in that region um. she had to go to the bathroom right and. it was a gas station but you know just. like you know Iraq it wasn't any normal. it was gas there was gas pumps they. hadn't been used in probably decades but. there were just you know uh cans of gas. all over the place so oh it was gas. station it was an Iraqi gas station um. she had to go to the bathroom and I told. her before I say don't leave without me.

and if you have to go to the bathroom. whatever it is if I have to go to the B. you're coming with me and I'm going with. you because we're not separating so so. we stopped there and I talking trying to. convince our driver and a couple of the. drivers that hey we need to you know do. this for your country and we're here for. you and all this other stuff and I turn. around they started okay we'll we'll do. it but we need more money you know it's. like all right we'll get we'll get you. more money when we get there and I. turned around.

like where where's this go she was a. contractor in at the Baghdad. International Airport with one of the. other companies uh they she was part of. one of the companies that went in to try. to uh like manage the infrastructure of. the airport okay right but that. obviously didn't go yet it wasn't time. for that yet um so Triple Canopy on the. ground picked her up uh to work for us. in in whatever capacity to train to. handle women Iraqis for the guard Force.

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she walked. off and uh it was like one of those. things. like I'm a contractor. now now should I leave her on her own. because she should know better or should. I you know go try to find out where she. is and rescue her because I don't know. where she's at and we're so time and. place where we're at rad and fujia you. know she's going to be high dollar to. somebody right oh yeah.

um so the only other place in the middle. of this desert where the guy the drivers. are across the street huddled up talking. about stuff and line of Suburbans packed. with all of our gear in it there's only. that one gas station part of it uh and I. was thinking and I he a couple of the. Iraqis standing around I think there's. no. way there's no way she would have went. over there CU it's safer here there's. Americans here right say well I see come.

from around the building oh my I was. like oh here we go I was like. well you know I have this brand new AK. but I don't know if it fires I haven't. shot it on a range no if it fires it. fires accurately so I can't I'm not. comfortable taking a shot you know 150. or something like that away from me and. I was like well this is all I got so. this this is my intro to Contracting an. Iraq thing and she keeps walking and I.

was like all right all right she makes. it to the truck and I scream at her and. yell at her I like don't ever do that. again um and she got her butt hurt a. little bit and I was like well you. realize where we're at right and she's. said yeah we're on the road to Baghdad I. was like so off in the distance on the. horizon see that over there that's fuia. we just passed ratti back here um those. towns sound familiar to you she's like. yeah she's like we're not going in there. I was like yeah exactly but that's who's. here and uh so she got it um she said.

I'm sorry she apologized to all kinds of. stuff and all worked out we got to the. the green. zone uh to our uh the house we were uh. near gate 12 I think it was was the one. the furthest down towards Route Irish. like you passed that the tank that was. parked out there and then you were on. Route Irish getting some um so that's. where we were at um uni guys were there. uh task force uh Brown the Rangers were. there sa was there um yeah that's where.

we that's where we started uh base of. operations just starting to get. contracts everywhere. nice so what. point cuz that was that was State. Department contracts correct uh most. part the CPA at the time so Co. coalitional provisional Authority so. state department but it was the CPA um. all those those contracts that they had.

everywhere um and they're starting to. push out now to uh suan up north and all. the other towns uh from bagd are. starting to Branch out down south in uh. uh rala to Lil and all those other. places they're trying to get something. stabilized you know uh trying to get a. presence there in those places which. didn't didn't work out so well initially. but how how long were you working with. triple can with triple canopy before.

picked up yep stay with them for a. year um most that was getting the bases. and the like as the contracts would come. down we were there waiting on okay let's. get a team and go like I ended up going. to suly but in the intern while I'm. bagged at I'm going to ratti helping. that team out to get spun up. um uh went down to uh to liil South to. start uh help with that one just to spin. it up I was never mind I wasn't supposed. to go to all these I'm just going.

because I'm there and to help out at. that point and then I'll come back to. Baghdad and wait for another contract so. I can take a team and go somewhere else. um raat what is it was interesting in. ratti so the the guard National Guard. Army National Guard was out there and. they were doing the escorting for the. uh the CPA folks going into ratti to do. their you know diplomatic stuff and so. our team was partnering up with those. guys so we'd run uh limo follow and then.

we'd have army vehicles in front leaving. out and then a gun truck in the. back and when I was out there doing that. we go downtown to the uh the governor's. mansion and we're doing surveys site. surveys we're getting the lay of the. land and figuring out what what's where. and stuff like that our national I got a. picture of this guy it's funny they're. from New. Jersey and I hear this one block down. had this firefight going on and I was.

looking at another side of the building. and I on top of the rooftop of this. three or four story government building. and. um I turned around I was. like I'm waiting for the the guard guys. to have some kind of movement right I. turn around and they're not moving and. uh the E6 I think staffs are um I yell. down the stairway I like hey get up here. to the triple kopy guys says hey get up.

here there's a firefight down the street. you know just to watch it maybe. participate in it something right who. knows in case they start coming this way. then we're up there ready right they had. uh the guard guys they they were. improving their positions on the rooftop. they had sandbags and that's what they. were doing while we were waiting for the. meetings to go on we're doing all the. sites the surveys the mapping of the. area and getting contact. information um uh range cards the whole. thing on the rooftop um and I went.

downstairs to see how much time we had. to for the meeting and it was still a. good 45 minutes or or an hour so and. then right then um I Heard the firefight. pick up optempo a little bit so I go. running back upstairs to the rooftop and. uh I pass the staff shant and he's going. down. downstairs and he he looks at me he's. like what are you doing where are you. going I was like hey there's a firefight.

going on he's like I know he that's why. I'm going. downstairs and he told his guys to lay. low he like get below there was like a. knee wall on top of this rooftop and. then there there sandbags and everything. um decent fighting positions and. uh the fir fight you know picks up uh. sound and and uh amount of ammo that's. being expended and and all we're doing. is like the next street over so we're.

starting you can only see the the misses. and the hits on the buildings like a. block up the street down you know we're. looking down this one street and. occasionally we see somebody passing by. and then somebody passing by the other. way it's like what in the heck is going. on and. uh one guy probably saw somebody on the. rooftop that we were at and he rounded. the corner and took a shot right and. immediately this there dudes the so. we're now in charge of the.

the well we're not in charge of them. we're say hey man you know they got saws. and all that stuff on the rooftop it's. like hey could you could you just please. Point your gun in that direction if. somebody starts shooting this way can. you just help us out a little. bit and that one dude turned uh around. the corner it's all he was doing is like. it's it's it's an araqi right so he's. running the corner shooting his gun and. then he's going to run across he doesn't. know I'm guessing he didn't know who was. where he's just going to shoot and then.

run cuz that's what they do right just. around the corner shoot and then run. across the street. um and that's all I said it's like hey. get that guy and he's like really like. he was excited this PFC he's like really. I was like yeah get that dude get him. get him get him he's like as he's. running across the street he must have. just I don't know emptied it half of his. drum because it was you know it was a. short window of time that we even saw. this dude out in the open. and he was way beh way behind trying to.

catch up and I was. like all right good job man he's like. did I get him and I didn't want to tell. him no um like did I get I was yeah you. got him good. job yeah that was you know that was. interesting the whole time of the. Contracting was. interesting uh and then mostly it was. dealing with or or eventually running. into like army guys in our cars right so. Beamers you know IID cars we're driving.

around IID cars um V bids and that's. what they they're thinking we are when. we're rolling up to them it's like oh my. God you know back off um was another. thing and and when I finally got um and. we were going to the bases. uh uh one of the bases up north between. Baghdad and bakuba we would go to that. base cuz that's where all the cashes. were they go raid places the big army.

and that was like the processing place. for all the enemy so we were getting. guns and ammo from those guys stuff that. they had captured on targets and stuff. like that it wasn't processed through. the system yet um and I finally get uh. there's deit and there's heral those. contracts are coming down then I finally. get one and it's in suly I was like ah. su's cool it's on north of the green. line that would be a cool place to go. I'll go train an army up there 10. special forces group was up there uh the. start major at the time was former unit.

Guy and um yeah it was a good deal um on. the way there we have to pass through. buba stop there because we have a team. there to drop off some mail and some. more money and stuff for them and one of. the um so there's a traffic circle near. where they had the I don't know whatever. you call it the CPA compound um and the. big Mill was moving so you got these big. old you know what do they call them the. the M wraps right yeah they're rolling.

through and they they're rolling through. the circle and I already you know. American flag orange panel all the stuff. to the the tail the rear Gunner on the. rear vehicle as he's looking you know. straight six o'cl he's got six for the. Convoy he's in and American flag hey. we're friendly and he gave us a thumbs. up and we just were following him around. the circle and when they get around the. circle they were going you know out. 12:00 and we're going to continue out 9. to go to the comper which is right.

quarter mile within this circle I mean. we're almost. there um and I had a local driver with. me from Baghdad spoke pretty good. English but I was taking him up to be a. linguist for me um but you know driving. skills yeah like that's all we had so. the other American in the other vehicle. had another uh local guy from Baghdad. he's driving and that it was just us two. two separate vehicles trunk full of. money to go hire local guards you know.

and uh vet them train them you know all. this other stuff and then pay them. salaries and stuff like that it's crazy. but uh we're dropping off money for the. buba team and we go behind the um we're. behind the Convoy we're you know pretty. good distance I mean we're we're enough. to where he can keep seeing us the the. rear Gunner and in the circle though. half of their Convoy gets through uh and. ID in the one of the bricks that make up.

the circle right so the huge blocks that. they have that make those things so. apparently they embed something in one. of those and blew it up cranked it off. of one of the M wraps and at the time it. was either you know initiation that was. either initiation to and then the follow. on you know Ambush kind of thing uh so. me sitting there what you know us. sitting there in the back of this. formation wasn't good place to be cuz it. was a thin skin uh what we have a BMW.

350 or something series car it's a fast. car but you know we don't need to be. here yeah yeah and so what I decided to. do um we couldn't get over the the curbs. because they're 18inch curbs right with. this BMW so i s i motioned to this guy. and I would told him we rehearsed a. couple things before we left you know. gas gas gas means step on the gas and go. keep going forward and.

uh explosion goes off in front of us and. it's like two or three M wraps in front. of us and they're spread out pretty good. distance and um I. said I have an idea what the arm is. going to do when they're hit when they. got hit right so my thing was to get out. of the way like as soon as we can get. out of the way so in hindsight what I. probably should have did was say reverse. out right yeah but I said gas gas gas.

and I took the steering wheel and I'm. steering right beside the M wraps all. the way around the circle so to the. point where they they couldn't depress. their guns to shoot us if they thought. we were bad in v- bids so I'm steering. right along the side of the the mraps. and as soon as I get a break around the. circle out we go right and thank God. they didn't you know think anything of. us other than they had a lot of things. to deal with at the time themselves. and uh and again my decision to go gas.

gas gas is setad of reverse out right so. we're hauling ass to the Chute and in. order to make it into the Chute to this. compound um it's a hair pin turn so. we're hauling ass I still got the. steering wheel. scky I kept telling them stay on the gas. and we're hauling ass down the road and. I said we're going to turn in right. there at the end of the the tea walls. we're going to turn left there and I let. go of the steering wheel and he turned.

in. and we're screeching a little bit as. we're making this hair pin turn across. the street and then into the shoot and. then we're safe well that little bit of. noise guess what we saw when we were. around the corner all these Americans. and locals are there right our team. that's there they're all gunned up. waiting for something to come down to. shoot and we're in we're driving a v bed. right yeah and flags out orange panels. and I'm waving hey we're friendly we're.

friendly I'm on the radio radio's not. working to try to say tell talk to. somebody in the compound that hey it's. us um and I told our driver he. was he was scared so we rounded the. first from all that activity then we. rounded the corner now all these guns. are facing at us and um I get out with. the American flag and I slowly got out I. started walking toward the front so. racky first I was like hey I'm friendly. sh my badge and they said uh they were.

they were all amped up they getting. ready to shoot something and I was like. it's okay calm down and I walk kept. walking and I said Hey where's the first. American I just yelled it down the shoot. and see a little hand come up and say. you know get over here and then I. recognized him I was like hey man it's. us it's like we're good and he's like. what the [ __ ] ninja I was like dude did. you hear that [ __ ] he's like yeah that's. where we're all jacked up right now we. heard the explosion in the circle and. now you come screeching around the. corner man you almost got shot up man I.

was like well we're here man it's like I. got a Duff bag full of money for you and. some mail and all that crap he's like. get your ass in here holy [ __ ] yeah did. you look at the Iraqi and say well what. do you think of your first day yeah yeah. he ended up quitting actually yeah yeah. all bet yeah good stuff so how did you. get picked up from the. CIA well well um ended up I left uh.

triple cany went to dor for a year went. down south to boser with dor um there. was a triple canopy team down there um. they were the first Americans that got. hit by an. uh uh. efp oh yeah right when all that crap. started uh they were targeting the Brits. initially they finally hit um and we. thought maybe it was a mistaken identity. they thought it was a British Land. Cruiser it was us our Triple Canopy team. it was Americans. we cure up for those guys that was a bad.

experience um really it was a body. recovery thing when by the time I mean. we were less than five minutes away um. and it was one of those things typical. things where if you're on the street you. ask the other team hey if we get in. trouble can you come h s us we'll do the. same for you well we're crossing you. know similar paths at least response. times and that was the that was the case. they got hit. um uh.

one I think of the three guys in the car. one survived I think. damn do you know the names I don't Brad. young ring a bell no by chance no but uh. yeah they they were that was they were. in a bad way when we saw them so some of. the guys were alive when we first saw. them um but some of the the the vehicles. that were pinning them they're pinned. like on the uh one guy was pinned uh. with the high side of the back of the CH. the seat right so that was actually.

keeping him alive just keeping pressure. in his in his system damn um but uh yeah. that was that was that was a scary. moment uh British that were down there. um we responded pulled the guys out of. the vehicles took them to the hospital. one guy by the time we got to that point. one guy was alive by the time I got to. the British hospital he eventually dies. on the table there um. yeah it was one of those things where.

the. uh the the thing to do was to go take. pictures of this and put it you know. exploit it the cameras uh the camera. footage uh on aler and all that stuff or. wherever. um so we get there and I have a uh I. have a saw I'm in a follow car so I'm. I'm rocking a saw and all the ammo that. comes with it um the new guy with me on. the other side he funny um got the call. hey we're hit we saw the limo flying.

past us back to the state department uh. compound and we're like well that it's. like I think that was the limo so the. package is safe um and then we heard the. guys that went to the the crash site so. car gets hit on an U ramp goes continues. up goes over the embankment rolls. tumbles and you know uh the guys in the. front of that car were gone instantly. probably um they're the ones that took.

the brunt of the whole efp thing. um and uh do you want to explain what. NFP does yeah form projectile yeah it's. a hot metal it's a copper plate um and. then that gets pushed with a explosives. behind it and it's packaged in a. cylindrical uh tube or container and so. you have this conle shaped uh copper and. explosives behind it it's primed from. the rear here and then when it shoots.

out it envelops on itself and then forms. a hot. metal copper uh projectile and it rips. through everything there's nothing that. can stop that stuff yeah yeah and uh any. armor at the time anybody was using it. wasn't stopped it was going right. through that stuff and usually by the. time it triggered on the front of the. vehicle uh front of the vehicle if it. was um and they were trying that at the. time they were trying uh timers uh.

command detonated stuff and then trips. on uh uh passive infrared or red uh you. break a beam and it goes off by the time. that your bumper crosses that line and. breaks the beam the the efp explosive is. is right at the point where you're. rolling uh right at the front of the. vehicle the front passenger compartment. right the driver and whoever's up front. and right through the front seat yeah. both people uh usually uh don't survive.

that and uh backseat people on the other. hand uh sometimes survive those things. uh other than all the other things that. happen as a result of the explosion. right um or the the car crashing into. things and Wrecking and all that kind of. stuff um but uh yeah that was there was. at the time no defending that and then. eventually they come up with this little. glow stick out in the front of vehicles. to detonate it in front of the vehicle. so you're not lined up with the the crew.

depart crew compartment on the vehicles. so that was really the only defense at. the time for those things. eventually um then they figured that out. and it went to a heat signature correct. yeah so they would it would sense the. heat of the engine yep yep and then. there was at the then they started doing. that at the front too they put the stick. out there with the uh like the radiator. coil or hot coil right and so that would. hopefully trigger those those initiating. devices um old school command detonated.

stuff uh and sometimes multiple people. so that was the thing too if if. something went wrong or if somebody. decided not to do something or whatever. it was they had two people designated to. detonate this thing so it was usually. some sort. of uh the. person uh tripping the device whether it. was a beam or whatever it was um or it. was command detonated second secondary.

um initiating device um so that was a. tearing people up uh for a long time in. Iraq um and it was nothing you can do. about it the hot metal copper was just. going through everything um but that's. in bosra at the time in. 05 that's when all that stuff started. and they were one of the first Americans. to get hit by it um horrible and I was. the.

the Crowds Are massing I'm there with my. 240 you know so I got a machine gun with. a lot of bullets there's a lot of people. out here but. um you know they're just massing what do. you do with the massing crowd I mean. they're not aggressive but in the crowd. there's some aggressive people yeah and. that's what they're capitalizing on. right they're going to keep getting. closer with the crowd so uh. there's a helicopter British helicopter.

comes across and they're giving us a. sitre to the commander the British. commander on the ground and uh we're. trying to get him to land to take the. people to the injured one guy that was. still alive um had a heartbeat um we we. want to get him to the hospital well. they didn't want to land because they. said uh there's it's too dangerous. there's too many people massing in your. direction like other than the people. that are there there's more people.

massing and I was standing right by the. the he was a lieutenant I said exactly. that's why we need to to get down here. and get get our guy to the hospital like. now get down here we got you we got the. we got it covered we got I mean to the. extent that we could you know I got a. machine gun we're good um we got to get. this guy out and they wouldn't land and. so we ended up packaging them up putting. them in the our vehicles and then trying. to get him to the hospital um and they.

all expired. uh yeah the that that was that was not a. good time they ended up bringing us back. to Baghdad they shut down operations. down in boser for a while um we went up. to Baghdad and did the same [ __ ] in. Baghdad yeah wasn't any prettier in. Baghdad damn but yeah that was the the. round out of that when I was deploying. for that is that's when I started. getting other offers or every time i'. used to come home um check email check.

voicemail all this other stuff and there. was always job offers hey we got. something for you um I and and I was. going to another department a param. military side of uh the. organization and I couldn't never sync. up interview times with this guy because. he's deploying. too and he says at one point he's say. hey man he's like hey brother he's. another former un guy he's said hey. putting a resume for any position and. I'll I'll have HR flag it that you've.

applied and they'll they'll get it when. when it comes through um so I did. that and that's. how GRS eventually gets my resume and uh. I get to call I get a call it's it's. it's doesn't say anything it's like many. of the other voicemails that I hear when. I come back to the States it's like hey. we have something that you might be. interested in you're well suited for it. and all this other stuff uh give us a. call for an interview if you're. interested so I call them and a bunch of.

other folks and set up interviews um. they'll find out that it is GRS when I. finally show up that that's what it is. because it was like so so back to my. unit days right getting into that whole. thing I was like so what do you guys do. who are you. guys and they go through the whole thing. about this is who we are this is what we. do and they explain the whole hierarchy. and the you know where they fit in the. in the whole you know structure of. things I was like oh I didn't know you. guys did that um because I did some a.

couple of uh trips for um another buddy. of mine on a. similar uh protective uh thing in. Baghdad um and and uh Afghanistan. bogram um so it was like I didn't know. you guys did that yeah sure I'll try it. you know and. uh that's how 16 years later I spent 16. years doing you know all the GS stuff. damn and yeah deploy I stayed deployed.

most of that time what when did you. start in GRS 06 06 when did GRS. start uh not sure I'm going to say. around uh beginning of. Iraq are you hiring what type of. position are you hiring for maybe you. need to hire somebody to wear many hats. which can be challenging or you might. have a simple position to fill but it's. taking forever to find somebody who's a. great fit for your company I have that.

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FDA these products are not intended to. diagnose treat cure or prevent any. disease or. condition yeah so it only been around. for three. years yeah something like that I think. there was always well so officially it. depends on who you talk to so in its. current state it it's the probably the. start time but there was always some. sort of.

um like protective side of things coming. from the uh more traditional office of. security side of the house yeah right so. there was always that so if you talk to. those people they were the they were the. original GRS guys um but in its current. state about beginning of Iraq time is. when that all kicked off so it all kind. of changed when the war came oh yeah. yeah. [Music].

um contractors uh contract companies to. you know that that's that's still or it. was up until Iraq and Afghanistan went. away uh the majority of the workforce. were or contractors. um and that that's where all that's. where all the most experienced guys were. that that did that kind of work so um. then staffers run the. teams um yeah it's it's a it's a whole. new animal now uh and I'm sure right now.

I'm not sure about what their status is. now but since Afghanistan and Iraq has. gone away for the most part um they've. scaled it down quite a bit I'm sure yeah. i' imagine yeah um I don't know what. kind of you know Mission profiles are. running anymore because it was more of a. traditional you know war. zone clandestine war zone High threat. environment that they were you know used. to operating in so I'm not not quite. sure how that looks nowadays but. probably a a lot different than when me.

and you were there oh yeah and it should. I mean times are changing so yeah that. is true. what what was. the did you go on as a staffer did you. come on as a contractor yeah I went on. as staffer initially okay um never made. it to the paramilitary side I ran into. my buddies over there all the time and. they're like what the [ __ ] dude I was. like I don't know I got a pretty good. gig over here me yeah yeah uh 90 90 days. on 90 days off I me in the whole.

rotation for 16 years um yeah I didn't. mind it I like the job I like the work. um I was around a lot of good stuff man. I I I I it uh just the work itself right. the uh that. particular Mission and Mission profile. to get folks to do what they have to do. right get get the clandestine teams to.

do what they do. um yeah it was an interesting animal. from a traditional Diplomatic Security. standpoint to you know do more with less. right now do all that with two people um. so I don't think that uniqueness ever. caught on like that concept like this is. the concept yes this is this is how we. train but it's not like you roll with a. lead car a limo a follow car a cat car.

and you have supporting OverWatch from a. helicopter and everything and an army. unit was standing by for qrf um. sometimes your your your team back at. your base was your qf yeah um unless you. had other people there the army or. marines that were there that could do. that kind of stuff um then it becomes. you. know uh element in contact or or their. element first Army first if it was Army. cats if we're not doing anything for our.

folks then we'll come to you right and. that's just just how it is I mean. there's that's just policy that's how. everybody works and we do the same thing. uh when they're asking us to do the same. thing qf for them like sure if we don't. have anything going on yeah we'll come. we'll come help you out um and that's. just the way of it um for years what. were your let's. what did you think of.

the I don't know if we can say the. acronyms can we say the training. acronyms the training pipeline uh what. did you think of the training pipeline. to get in what was your initial assess. yeah so we had that discussion the other. night it it. was if you're starting with this with. some like a seal uh Green Beret Ranger. the that particular thing that we were.

doing back. then had nothing to do with operational. how we were operating in the field yeah. um and as much as they hated to hear. that that wasn't just me but I'm sure. others were saying the same thing and. and since I hadn't made a deployment yet. I was like there's no way you're doing. this in the field um because it just. doesn't make sense to me um and they. kept telling me they're trying to. reassure me that this is how our people. are doing it in the field so you have to.

learn this so you'll be on the same. sheet of music when you get there I was. like all right well I'll do it and so I. went through the whole process made it. on board uh went to the field for the. first time I was like I knew it wasn't. happening in the field cuz it's stupid. yeah um and so from the so the the the. experienced contractor folks who have. some sort of experience they've been. through a basic training or a boot camp. right uh they've been tested in marso uh.

buds uh sfas or or rip rope all these. other things they've gone through. several layers. of uh assessment and selection and. they've been in the further and further. we get into the wars they've already. been in the war zones they've been in. the combat zones they've been on targets. and they've been in that environment. already they know it and they're good at. it and so you can you can start with. those Folks at a certain point further. down the road right you don't have to. send them through another basic training.

you boot camp thing you can you can do. that but that wasn't how the mindset was. it's like you got to train to the lowest. common denominator which is a. staffer um who sometimes didn't have any. previous experience like the the. contractor staff um so already already. it's it it's it's not going to work if. you're training the lowest common. denominator person who has no experience. or very little experience maybe they. were in the military but it wasn't a.

combat arms combat arms is either some. sort. of infantryman a seal a ranger somebody. right that does that kind of work um. could have been a logistician in the. army or Air Force right well that. doesn't that doesn't equate but they do. have a college degree and they're in and. a staffer and they they they made it you. know to that point um I could never. understand I got to be careful how I say. this but I can never understand why the.

I'm hoping you can help me with this cuz. a lot of guys have this question why. were the. staffers qualifications lower than the. contractor's qualifications if they're. going to be the [ __ ] team lead with. that being said I'm not saying that all. staffers yeah I was have the experience. I'm just kidding you were one of the. most respected guys in that element but. a lot of staffers and you know this.

were uh not respected at all and nor. should they have been in my. opinion what what was that why did they. why were the qualifications so high to. become a contractor and so low to become. a staffer yeah it was a mindset where uh. uh you know for those of us coming out. of the Special Operations Community. right there's a there's a. we know what Le we we know that style of.

leadership right and what it takes to do. that but uh coming. from you know the staff side of the. house and that management they're not. they're not used to that so their thing. is a manager is a manager you can a. manager can manage any team anywhere. anytime right as long as they have the. education the whereabouts the smarts and. they go through the initial training. right we're all the. same okay it's not true but that's the. that's the mentality. um yeah uh and we've talked about it and.

I've I've heard that conversation over. the last 16 years a lot I'll bet you. have um you know uh in any of our. training too on the staff side there's. no leadership training so and I was. willing to do and I did it through the. organization just to kind of figure out. you know what what's what's the mindset. what's the take overall on on your what. do you thinking leadership is and what. are you expecting out of me right kind. of thing um and it's mostly it's mostly.

oriented mostly leadership stuff. is it's kind of geared towards an office. environment okay so you really can't get. the field type leadership that we're. used to seeing you know in Special. Operations Community infantry units or. anything like that uh so that's that's. where that that's the missing link there. on. the unknowing on like the not knowing. how to train too like like leadership. training uh manager at a Marriott went.

to school was in the Army for a little. bit doing administrative work or. something like that well if he did that. then he can lead a team of pipe hitters. in war zone yeah makes absolutely no. sense and it. uh for the most part it didn't work um. they survived it right right so for. those guys I've been in the senior. leadership positions out there.

and. uh and know that guys go out there and. survive their 90 days they they live. they go in the the uh the skier area sit. at the workstation they never go on a. run they go to the chow hall they make. friends with everybody in the in the uh. the operational side of the the secure. area but that's it uh they don't they. can't get along with the team cuz they. don't know even know how to talk to the. team they don't know how they don't have. the same things to talk about yeah um so.

it goes on and on down that rat hole of. just they just isolate themselves hang. out for 90 days and then they go. somewhere else the next trip so they. don't have to go to the same place and. deal with that again um there are a few. good ones out there but uh there are. those a lot that. uh don't lead by example that's the big. one right yeah uh they and they don't. know how to do it one they don't know. how to do the job and then they don't. seek the extra uh training to do it.

themselves cuz I I'll hear about guys. even guys who have been in a business I. did the same thing myself it's like I'll. come back from a trip but and put myself. into a training course of some sort um. because I went in yes I was in the war. zone for 90 days but I didn't pull the. trigger once so I'm going to go to a. rrange into school and learn how to. shoot again or pull the trigger you know. um plenty of times that's happened where. yeah I didn't do anything there was no. activity and then you know it was a good. trip right it was it well it was boring. but you know nothing happened yeah um.

come back while I'm gone I'm looking at. another school to go to or just a. training course just to go to Just for. shits and grins just to stay up on the. whatever people are teaching right yeah. um and uh what's being discussed and. who's throwing up to these training. courses and then building a network. right maintaining that network of folks. I do that all the time um but that's not. the norm uh with on the staff side on. the Contra I'd run into our contractors. at some of these classes right good for.

you man um because otherwise you go uh. re-qualify you know every two years and. that's it if you didn't do anything else. on your own that's the only training. you're going to get but and I don't know. some guys even on the contract side that. that's all they relied on that's all. they did too yeah. um but that was very rare on the staff. side for to hear somebody like hey I'm. going to you know uh shoot with uh uh.

you know Jerry barard or uh anybody I'm. going to Larry vicer school or something. like that or I'm going to V uh Viking. tactics you know carbine level three. cour or whatever you didn't hear a lot. of that it's like I don't know why why. wouldn't you like try to be better. yourself right try to better yourself. try to be the best person if this is. what you do for a living then you should. probably you know working to get better. at it right um and there's there's times. where you know uh the longest time I've. gone without pulling the trigger was.

when I was deployed for 90 days cuz. nothing happened it's like well that's. not I couldn't get to a range because. you couldn't go to the place where you. can shoot guns or didn't have a range on. your facility um and then other times. that was that was the training place to. be yeah you know cuz you had a range and. you had Unlimited Supply of you know. bullets available to you and you it was. the best training ever it didn't happen. not a lot of operational stuff going on. but you were able to train do some aop. drills live fire stuff and those kind of.

things um and then bring back so when me. or any of the guys that were doing that. when they're back home in the states. they go to a class then they bring it. right back to the field and say hey this. is what I learned at whatever class they. went to whatever course they went to um. now we have the opportunity to have a. 360 degree range and a better training. environment um to practice all these. things so we'd go out there and do it um. like the mosul and K cooks and stuff. like that perfect areas um most places. in Afghanistan you had a place to go.

shoot guns and do some good training. right. but a lot of guys didn't do that so they. weren't good at it either when you're. talk when we're talking about the guys. that didn't have the respect they. weren't good at it and they didn't work. to get better at it yeah shooting or. otherwise so they didn't even go to the. range with their own teams because they. were afraid to show in their ass like I. don't know how I don't know what I'm. doing yeah instead of seeking the advice. from those experts yeah and sayy teach. me how to shoot as good as you right uh.

that or anything so you could be driving. communicators y anything. breaching you know I just. I you know usually chime in on. interviews but I found I found the. agency is in that particular environment. to. be. really it was uh. difficult to navigate I worked with the. best people I've ever worked with there.

and I've worked with the worst [ __ ]. people I've ever worked with there yeah. I feel like. GRS is probably one of the most. underrated units in the entire. organization I think the majority of. people there uh it it was a very [ __ ]. High Caliber. um group of. individuals and uh I don't. me personally my opinion is the agency. never realized the full capability of.

what we had to offer and is a is an. entire organization now there were I'd. been to sites and I've been to different. safe houses and whatever spots where. where the chief of Base the guy in. charge realized how capable we were and. it was hey can you guys go snatch this. guy yeah we can do that can. you call all in Apaches yeah we can do. that can you guys breach yeah we can do.

that yeah you know and it was it was the. answer was never no whatever they. brought we could figure out how to. [ __ ] do it because it was all Delta. Team Six seals Rangers Green Berets PJs. CCT guys yeah and I honestly think it. was probably the most. capable unit that I've ever fuing. participated in yep but what are your.

thoughts on that no I agree uh the the. uh yeah the most capable and the most. underated misunderstood and underrated. right in even from our own management. side of the house they don't even know. what they have available to them they. don't even know the capabilities of the. guys that are working for them um which. is just always just amazed me um and so. if they were able to understand what it. is exactly that's going on in the field. and disregard all the pony shows that.

were going on when they show up on the. site somewhere overseas because that's. all it is dog and pony show well then. they're like oh well things are good you. guys are good well um it's it's all. hiding things and only showing them what. they need to see right in dog and pony. shows um and not being not having a real. conversation with them when they're. there it's like this is what we're doing. uh this is how we're doing it and it. sure would be nice if we had training in. a safe environment back in the States to. do this um because this is what we're.

actually doing uh the cookie cutter. training stuff that's fine we actually. have a a a situation we would like to. train on specifically for this area. because this is what we deal with every. day um and it just never seen that way. it's not a it's a training thing too. it's a Training Concepts that they're. not familiar with too that allow that to. happen back like oh yeah that makes. sense right yeah cuz they don't know. what they don't know so you you can tell. them all day long and I used to get get.

this well we're you know we're not at. your old place anymore we're not all. going to be Commandos so you know stop. trying to make us your own Commandos I. was like I'm not but they're capable. people out there that that can use this. training because that's what we're doing. this is how we're accomplishing the. mission now on the operational side for. the most part they loved us and all the. capabilities with some exceptions where. you have some animosity and some you. know stuff going on like that that you.

know they they don't want it they don't. like you you're a knuckle dragger just a. meat eater you know I don't need you out. here we can do our own stuff and I've. actually heard that and I was like and I. used to put it back on I'm like well. then all right well I can take my team. somewhere else because we can be more. effective if we even go to and I'll name. a base somewhere else if you don't need. us then just say you don't need us and. I'll take the team we'll go somewhere. else and and then they're like. well well wait a minute what about but. what if yeah what if something bad.

happens right and I was like okay you. see what I mean um we could do that and. all these other things for you while. we're here. um you know we can you know it it's a. very it it took I mean over 20 years. right to finally get the point across. that what are the actual capabilities. because there's also this thing going on. that yeah we did this thing and it was.

great and everybody loves us at this one. base but. it's it's not within our it it wasn't. what we trained to and it's not in any. Sops it's not any thing that we should. be doing right we. went not out of the box but you did. exactly what needed to be done to get. the job done right and it wasn't. necessarily what was being taught in an. academic environment right um but that's. that's the reality of the situation that. we were in right this the world we lived.

in um and so they did they didn't. discuss or describe exactly what. happened so nobody ever knows about it. um so it's not captured in any any. documents no official cable traffic no. emails nothing because they're afraid of. saying they did something that they. weren't supposed to do and then get in. trouble for it right and I used to tell. the guys all the time don't be afraid of. doing something for fear of losing your. job if it's the right thing to do just. do it um and then worry about it later I. mean there are times when you don't have. time to float it across you know uh a.

discussion or a a you know leadership. Forum to say hey is this okay to do. sometimes in those environments they're. so Dynamic things happen and you got to. make decisions and that's that's where. you know we used to make our money. making those kind of decisions. um but then articulate that that's. that's that on me and all my other staff. for you know colleagues to do right. articulate that back to our management.

to let them know exactly what we're. doing because it's great stuff um and I. did that for you know 16 years trying to. get that Ed into the training programs. which over time most of it is some of it. still there but it's still kind of a. sterile training environment right which. it can be a little bit more. realistically in in that regard but um. it's kind of it's come a long way since. 15 years ago um yeah and it's not just.

me it's a lot of folks that have come on. board since then who been able to have. those discussions um truth to power kind. of stuff and they're not you know I was. never one to be um just like I was. saying I tell everybody else and I lived. it myself don't be afraid to make. decisions for fear of losing your job. make make a decision based off of what. you know do the right thing because it's. the right thing to do and if all. goes well to that point you don't have. to you don't have to struggle to.

describe what you did um success or fail. and one of one of the one of the um. things I told our our deputy chief great. guy um we were trying to get a piece of. the so we evacuated tripa 2014 and we're. going now we're ask they're asking for. assistance to go back it's going to be a. more traditional like way back in the. day you know OS infill just very few. people.

uh and I want to say expeditionary but. those that here expeditionary it means a. lot of other things a small team to go. get us back into um Libya at the. time and uh they asked for assessments. what what would it take for you guys to. support this and everybody that was. given a numbers like well we need a. two-man team for this guy we need uh a. follow qf team you know so that's three. armored vehicles six eight guys all of.

them need carbin and pistols and then. machine guns it's like okay you missed. the whole point how about you give us. two can you give us two guys to go and. help out other folks that are more than. capable so these are all. experienced uh either on the. paramilitary side or they're experienced. tactically technically competent and. proficient folks that are being hand. selected to go do this okay. and I said no we need we need we need to. get a piece of that because we have guys.

that can do that but we need to have the. uh we need to have the adult. conversation with people who get wind of. this and that want to go but aren't that. person that we need to go represent us. or support that team in this capacity um. because they just aren't capable to do. that and that's another thing we were we. were lacking too on the management side. is having those Frank discussions with. people hey you can't I personally was on. a lot of situations say they wanted to. come to a site that I was at I was like.

no sorry man um they said but you asked. for whoever I said yeah because I need I. need him out here for whatever his you. know competencies were and um and no uh. sorry. man love you like a brother but I don't. need you out here you know you're doing. well where you're at just stay right. there um you know and having those kind. of discussions it's like I need somebody. with a little less you know whatever it. was usually it was an anger management.

thing or a very strict um because the. places I like to go to you had to be a. little bit more out of the box. thinking um maybe do something or answer. the mail on something and actually say. no to certain things um but no wouldn't. do that that was the hardest part for me. to convey to other my other staff for. colleagues to say you know it's not. always. yes um but you always try to get to yes. it's like uh yes but not that way how. about this and then have an answer right.

so have those smart discussions and. that's what they want they want to open. up the and I've heard things and they. something gets Flo float floated on the. table say could you guys do this and it. just sounds totally ridiculous it's like. um we could but we probably shouldn't do. it that way and then have an answer for. it right how about this right give them. a solution um those are all the. discussions that you that they want to. elicit from you they'll just throw. something on the table and if you say no. no that's not what we do you we got a.

strict sop to do it this way it's. like or not I me I mean do you have to. stick I mean what what's telling you. that you have to do these exact things. this exact way this is a different. country this is a different thread. environment this is everything's. different about this place that your. management team that you're working with. uh is different um their authorities are. different you know it's there so many. things that can be involved in this. thing but they don't think all that. through you know it's and it's a lot of. the guys who have the least amount of.

previous experience so they were like. the Lance corporals or whatever in the. Marine Corps the the junior leaders. wherever they were um but they were. never in a like a leadership position. themselves before they left the military. or police departments wherever they're. coming from right they weren't in those. positions to make those kind of. decisions to see that transition from. you. know the the team member to the team. leader so they never made that. transition um those of the guys get.

stuck with uh Sops and and policies and. all that other stuff instead of looking. at these things as well this is what the. policy says this is our sop but standard. operating procedures are based off of. what where did that come from yeah right. that was Another Place Another Time well. then let's let's see what we can do to. make this work right accomplish the. mission period yeah um. let's and with that this problem yep yep.

um and unfortunately you know our. contractors are stuck because they're. contractors right. they that's why they're staffers right. they're the staff makes the decisions. right especially when it comes to money. and all these other things but so. there's there's uh staff things that. staffers do and most of that is the. authorities side of the house um um and. and the interaction with the the Chiefs. and the senior folks that are there.

wherever you're at uh have those. discussions be in those meetings and. convey your capabilities to their. mission and how to accomplishment right. or how to accomplish anything that. they're talking about at the. table this episode of the Shawn Ryan. Show is also sponsored by hmn you've. heard the buzz about Ketone supplements. and how they can boost your workouts by. helping your body use fatty acids for. fuel you've probably heard them on the. show because they sponsor this show I.

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know how many times where um I hear him. talking and they're saying. well uh JS can't can't do that because. the previous guy that was there in my. spot had said they can't do it for some. reason and I was like wait wait a minute. no that's well within our purview to do. that that's what we're here for I mean. you guys are paying money for us to be. here to do exactly that thing um assume. the assume the risk that you know a. higher level of risk assumption that. we're going to take for you to. accomplish the mission right that's what.

we're here for it's like uh so those. discussions are are are lacking in some. of our because they were Junior leaders. they never they never felt empowered to. make those decisions in their previous. lives and then nobody told them that was. okay to do that in their current lives. right and I used to say that all the. time to the guys uh you got to go to. this meeting you got to go to this. meeting I know meetings suck but you got. to go to meeting and have those. discussions with these people at that. point because that's the initial phase. of getting getting things done they're.

talking about things they want to do and. they need somebody in there to tell them. yes I can support that and or no I can't. support it but how about I you do this. you know this way how about we. incorporate somebody else or ask for. Military Support or you know wait let me. get more guys here for a surge or. something like that that's that's what. they need to hear the interaction that. they needed to hear which wasn't. happening in a a lot of places um like I. don't have enough guys here I have three. guys and we need to do this thing I like.

let me let me ask for some more guys and. yes we can do it if I get three or four. or five more other guys here um so. that's that's huge and it's it's from. what I can tell up until the day I left. um it's still going on to some extent. the junior leaders uh don't know how to. have those conversations they're never. told or taught those kind of things. either so that's another thing on our. part that we didn't do as an. organization to help those Junior. leaders become senior leaders.

interesting yeah because it's. it's uh it's also part not part of your. evaluations either so the whole. performance evaluation doesn't just. because you're there is good enough. doesn't matter what your performance. level was because nobody's there to. watch you uh except for the guys on the. ground and. um they're not part of your your your. rating scheme. so you know if you were to ask team.

members your team what they thought if. they were to ask them what did they. think of you as a leader that that would. be a whole. new whole new you know yeah uh Avenue to. take to find out what. exactly you were like on the ground. right um because that says a lot right. or to even ask the senior uh. organization guy that was there the. Chiefs um hey how did my guy do that. conversation wasn't happen here from. manager to manager headquarters to the.

field how how's my guy doing out there. never that. conversation if and when it ever did. they' always say oh he's doing fine you. know I mean he's doing everything you. guys do and you know very washed down. very politically correct they're not. going to say bad things about anybody um. so there's not that Frank discussion. either uh a lot of times sometimes yes a. lot lot of times no like hey this is. what I expectations brief right hey this. is what I expect out of you during your.

time here. um I used to give that to the team uh. any team I went to it's like okay this. is why this is what I'm going to do. while I'm here this is what I want to. get done while I'm here this is what I. what I expect of you to get that done. and then what do you guys have. expectations of me right um that's like. the initial inbrief other than you know. uh this is who I am this is what I do. this is my job in this. whole station environment um this is.

what I can do for you um everything. falls on me I'm responsible for. everything we all do or failed to do so. if anything goes wrong it's all on me. and I talk to the man about it I'm the. one going on the carpet neither one of. you unless it's an individual thing that. you need to account for um that's all I. asked from the guys ever like be. accountable for yourself be responsible. if you screw up own. it um yeah and uh be be responsible and.

accountable for your actions good or bad. and that doesn't happen enough though. yeah let's get to some of the. operational type stuff that happened. there was some major major incidents. that happened one of them being Benghazi. mhm where were you when that happened I. was in Baghdad when that happened. yeah that was um so 2012 I was in. Baghdad closing down the old Villa we.

were closing down the Villa moving out. of the Villa going over the new Embassy. compound. um yeah that was uh that was an. interesting um incident of course. administratively that was another. Administration thing I think that we. were all under. some. um lack of leadership or misled by. leadership you know all the way up to. the White House in that case.

um yeah and I of the guys uh Tyrone and. Bob um I worked with Bob in um Israel a. few. times um I didn't know. [Music]. Tyrone uh I didn't know the Ambassador. Stevens or anybody the communicator that. was out there but um yeah that was a. that was. um there was a lot of things I wish we. could like that just like uh another.

incident that that story that's a great. story but the way it came out in the. movie it. wasn't how would a it just sounded like. our like guys complaining about what. happened right there's a lot of good. things uh I mean I'm not saying anything. out there was was not horrible because. it was a horrible situation. but what our guys ended up doing in this. horrible. situation was amazing right yeah.

um so instead of having that kind of. tone to the whole thing it was uh you. know didn't quite have that tone like. they weren't there was a lot of. administrative stuff and backside stuff. that they weren't aware about that. couldn't make it into the movie probably. but um affected the outcome of all this. stuff. uh that that was wasn't talked about or. discussed in a movie or or you know. nobody knows about that stuff but um.

maybe in some of the books I haven't. read can you elaborate on it. now or no uh no probably not probably. wouldn't be a good thing. um so there there are some stories out. there and I and from our guys that were. out there and that are still alive. telling the story. um they did some amazing amazing and. heroic stuff that so making decisions on. the Fly uh I wasn't taught this I'm not.

supposed to do this. um the reliancy on the locals right um. who ended up abandoning their posts uh. but then somehow relying on them from. station management to come back and help. and what I know of Libya and my. interaction with all the militias out. there um they're loyalties are always to. their own countrymen right even if. they're in different. militias um they won't fight another.

militia for. you um and that's exactly some of which. which happened out there. um because they got to live with them. right and they can't go to war with. another. militia a neighborhood who who they have. maybe family members in and that's just. the Dynamics of militias and in a lot of. places um. and the lack of understanding of that. right the actual uh like their actual.

intent you you and we've done the same. thing you've asked them for help if if. we got help or if we need help from them. and yes yes yes yes all day long yes. we'll come help you because you're. Americans you're our. friends but then their neighboring. militia even if it's their. uh their worst enemy in a normal day and. than they the militia that they hate the. most. um they might go to fisticuffs for a.

little bit but they're not you know when. it comes push the shove they're going to. stop and say okay stop because we got to. live with each other Americans will go. home but we're still going to be here so. the. the you know TR trying to uh so try to. imagine in that scenario in that case. knowing. that if I'm asking a militia and I'm. relying on a militia to come help me CU. I'm being attacked by another militia or. another. anybody um unless it's a common enemy.

outside of that country right the. al-Qaeda and Isis and all those folks if. it's from outside if they're foreign. Fighters that's a whole another animal. but for our folks that don't understand. that first of all it's beond me why they. wouldn't understand that because that's. just militia. 101 um and libyans when I used to talk. to them all the time time militia to. militia they they actually said they say. those things when you're asking for.

assistance and and I said exactly hey. what if militia this militia was. attacking us would you come help. us and they're like. well maybe if one of our people are. involved right we might go to war with. them but that's that's asking a lot of. them yeah um and just that that. misunderstanding of how the Dynamics. work there um and the to think that you. can rely on them to do those kind of.

things for it's not an American right. you can't you. never you can't outdo the American. fighting Spirit regardless whoever that. is I me it's it's that is a unique thing. only to. Americans um but we often think that we. train these people so they have adopted. our mentality about helping others. that's a good point yeah and not yeah. it's not the case even if especially if. it's us cuz we're the we're the.

foreigners to either one of those folks. even though they're our friends we're. always the foreigners we're always the. the guests um so if you think about it. in those terms um yeah they're not going. to they're not going to risk the rest of. their livelihoods and their children's. livelihoods and their Generations past. because they go to war when they go to. war they go to war for. Generations um even if that that's the. case and we saw it in Afghanistan we. seen it in Libya we see it in everywhere. we've been uh over the last 20 years.

plus um it it never works out if if. you're a a if you're a studier of war in. militias and all those kind of things. you see those are common threads um and. those are common stories after the fact. well we were relying on the militia to. come save us cuz they said they would. and we've been training with them we've. been drinking with them we've been. eating with them every day for the last. 10 years right and they're our friends.

we smile together we laugh together we. mourn together we fight together and. then when it comes push the shove though. if it's against one of their neighboring. people I can't think of a a entity right. now that would do that for us and that's. that's kind of what happened God some of. which has happened in Libya altogether. and all of my experiences in Libya but. um in Benghazi as well so our our office.

there was relying on the locals to come. do. something and they damn yeah they didn't. they wouldn't um that's so they they. kind of portrayed that in a movie a. little bit um where the local. guard uh Force has a cell phone and he's. talking to one of the the commander of. the attacking. force and uh I can't remember what.

character it was they had in a movie. that was saying who are you talking to. and he's talking. to the the commander of the attacking. Force it's like how do you have his. phone number well it's because they live. together so they live in the same you. know they're they're they're locals and. um yeah it's just it you know you can. try to portray that all you want and it. it it and and and SF Community right. that's what you do in FID right you. train locals to do local to win their.

own battles um so the tendency in that. environment too and we do the same thing. our guys that are working with locals do. you fall in love with your own work your. own locals I train them they're good. they're they'll do anything I want them. to do they listen and all day long. because you're feeding them you're. paying them you're clothing them you're. giving them training and of course. they're going to they're your friends. cuz they're your friends for now but. then when push comes to shove and you. ask them specific questions about if.

this militia or whatever you want to. call them are attacking us CU we just. got some threats that are coming out of. this area of the city um would you guys. come help and most often it'll be uh. either a oh they don't want to say no. because they want to make you happy and. that's uh but they'll you know kind of. walk around the conversation and say uh.

yes like just to make you happy yeah but. guess what over and over and over again. um not just there but in other places. too we call them for help and. somehow that phone never gets answered. it's like. oops. Yeah yeah let's let's move to the coast. bombing m. mhm 09 December yep yep another good. book The Triple.

agent awesome read uh to know. how um bowy did what he did that day. and he was good he was he was better. than most. um clandestine agents any were training. he wasn't even trained yeah um well. let's talk about what happened yeah so I. got there. probably three weeks maybe before that. happened uh beginning of.

December um I was going to show up be. the country uh Team lead guy and I was. going to go around the bases I ended up. staying in cble and working Cobble um. and I was getting feedback on things. that are happening out there hey we're. spending up for high threat me and all. this other stuff can you look up this. person can you look up this stuff get. see if you got any information on it you. couldn't get information on it so. there's a lot of things there that was. that were close hold compartmented for a.

reason that they wanted to keep it close. hold right. compartmented so our guys weren't. getting information a lot of physical. things about lack of information the. physical uh security uh building there. was a a facility that was an existing. facility and made it a a a skiff right. limited access or limited um like. computer space there were people. actually hot seating at the same. computer station because there wasn't. enough.

space there weren't enough drops so. there's lack of communication lack of. information for those reasons. compartmentalization and then physical. access to a computer to ask questions um. and then there was the withholding of. information from the management team to. uh in order to put a plan together in. order to plan appropriately and then. there's a reluctancy to listen to that. the the guidance that our guys were. giving out there and there was two two.

or three team leaders on the staff side. and that have gone through there and. worked that problem set and were unable. to convey to them this is the best way. to do this because it it ended up to be. mostly focused. towards um may have been the pressures. uh from outside of that base to get. something done or whatever it was which. is also shouldn't be a consideration. sure okay I feel pressure to get. something.

done but the fear of failing right. that's that's the whole thing I got to. get something done or or I'm going to be. perceived as a failure. well or you can be alive to tell the. story that you failed right yeah. um uh all these indicators I mean the. triple agent paints a good picture so. you'll never we'll never over see the. official report on it they took a lot of. internal uh over year over several years.

uh like what what did Happ what did we. think happen internally uh what do what. did we do wrong what could we do right. uh what could we have done better right. um a lot of unwillingness initially to. actually identify the leadership. problems that were going on the. communication problems that were going. on the uh the this osion of information. right enough for our security teams that. were out there to have a decent plan or.

to even be listened. to. um but it was it was crazy during those. times so what I'm fig what I'm finding. out my first day is underground each. base has different criteria for. searching people there's color codes. there's number codes um and you probably. remember some of those there's gold and. yellow and green and green means you do. this to this person red mean full on. strip down and give them new clothes and. different levels of. searches um that was one of the things.

on my list of things to do it's like no. there no let's get this let's get this. [ __ ] together and figure out a way to. not individual bases but I thought that. needed to be uh consistent throughout. the the the theater uh one for because. we were the ones doing the searching so. I go to one base I got this whole. another criteria for searching people I. go to another base and then I got. another search criteria and. and they're all bad guys um so what's. the level of bad guy right what is this.

guy what's this deal um and then you get. fed the information that you they want. you to know about this guy to get a. minimal search criteria on this dude he. gets painted with you know a minimal. search um and then and okay that's. that's all I know I don't know any. different I don't have any information. to go on um that all changed after that. so there is now somebody to reach out to. to find out exactly the Threat Level and. those kind of things but leading up to. that there was a reluctancy to listen to.

the Jus guys on the ground and how it. needed to go down um there were some. other folks and even uh uh it might have. been in uh Darren lonte is one of the. guys that died in that one um he's. coming from. Jordan. um it might have been in triple agent or. some other. book or article where he's. actually uh expressing some reluctancy. to do this because it just seems like.

we're not in control of this guy he's. controlling the optempo he's he's making. the meetings he's canceling meetings um. which is what happened that day too um. he's coming up with excuses and somehow. he magically has this access that we're. just all salivating over how does that. happen well he has actually described. some of the reluctancy to do this based. off of his. Spidey senses going off in this guy he. like that's too much access too quickly. for this guy why would that happen you.

know how would that happen and so he's. one that says something in in some uh. documents like it's public knowledge um. and I'm thinking it's probably Triple A. and A great book to read on how this. whole go thing goes down from a. thirdparty perspective so there's no. favoritism either way it's what he did. and how he was able to do it um do you. want to talk about the what happened in. Coast how it happened who died well he.

goes Southside is the the team leader. for GRS down there um he I'm talking to. him for a couple days a week or two. before that and he's frustrated on he. wants to go meet this guy down in town. or outside of town somewhere search him. off base so they're the only ones. exposed to a Potential Threat um that. gets denied. and at one point I I I I'm on the phone. with them and I said well you can deny.

our services if it's if they don't want. if he's so safe that they don't need. your services you can you can say okay. we're out we're hey take care of it. Chief have a good one you know we'll be. in the team room playing you know Xbox. or something whatever um actually said. that and he actually pulled out he's. like well if it's if you don't need us. and you're not taking my advice on. anything then all right well have a good. have a good meeting we'll be over here. if you need us um almost last minute I. don't know at one point he decided that. he he calls me and and he's calling me.

because he can't get on the system he's. hot seating on a on a. workstation um he said he was out and. then he calls me he's like we're back in. he was like we're uh we're going to do. what we can at the site uh when he shows. up because that's all we're giving and. he didn't feel good about just standing. around not doing anything so he's like. we're going to set up outside the so. everybody wasn't supposed to be outside. there it was just supposed to be the GRS. and the meum uh Darren and the Jordanian.

uh officer were supposed to be there and. that's it just to meet greet and then he. meets everybody when he goes inside the. the room the the room that was set up. for the meeting uh that was a last. minute thing there everybody comes out. to to form a greeting line and. unfortunately that gets a lot of people. killed that wouldn't have otherwise been. dead today um those are all decisions. not made by GRS but it was made last. minute by the station management um but. uh Southside says calls me and he says.

we're back in we're going to do what we. can we got something worked out in the. front of the building to make this. happen um and we'll do what we can um. and we'll we're we're going to take you. know we're going to be the ones exposed. which this is what we do right and if. all went well and it still went bad. there would be uh you know a few less. dead people today. uh subject to anybody else's assessment. of what happened um that's what I know. and that's what I I think would have.

happened otherwise our guys would have. still been dead um because they that's. that's the job that they had to do and. he was going to blow blow is going to. blow himself up he that's what he went. there to do um and then Darren the. Jordan Intel officer would have been. dead as well. um but there would have been at least. you know three others still alive. um he says he's going back in he's got a. plan uh they're going to do what they.

can because that's what they're there. for and uh the plan was for all the. folks to wait on the inside and me and. him when he came inside the meet and. greet was going to happen with uh Darren. leonte and the Jordanian officer Intel. officer three Gs guys out there to meet. and greet do the whole pat down and. search and then off to the meeting they. go um. well last minute uh the.

the the local guard Force the concern. was the Rapport and the identification. from the local guard force of of bowy. coming in. right uh so the local guard force was. either told to look away or they were. taken off of the the the gates to come. in and only Americans were going to be. there but the Americans they were going. to be compliant there was this little. card they showed uh the the driver had. either I'm underdress or I'm okay right. flip the card one way or the other uh.

he's okay was shown uh either way the. gates are up and free access to come and. base no searches that was another spot. where the static guys wanted to at least. do a search and I had described to. Southside at the time too I was like. well if you're out at the perimeter of. the fence where they're coming in at the. gate and you do the search. and I've done it myself on other. occasions too but um so I would I wasn't. telling them anything that I wouldn't do.

if I was there doing the thing myself um. you know take the ash chewing later uh. because they're going to complain about. it later right if they go into the. meeting hey your guys searched me. roughed me up you said that wasn't going. to happen what's hey put it on me it's. all on me right um my bad sorry um but. they weren allowed to do that uh they. were very strictly uh observed. controlled about how the things were. going to go.

down and eventually uh they decide to do. what what the best thing they have you. know with this uh [ __ ] sandwich you know. um we'll meet him when he comes to the. in front of the. facility um search him there and then. escort him inside and then get on with. the meeting um unannounced them there's. like let's go out and form this meet and. greet line.

um you know unfortunately she's not here. alive to defend herself in that decision. but that was a decision made by station. management to go do that ended up uh. killing more people including. herself um our guys died probably. instantly because they were Ground Zero. of the explosion uh along with Darren Le. Bonnie and the uh Jordanian inel officer. um he went there with the intent to kill.

Americans that was his whole intent. uh and to think that you know when you. think in that mindset. um the the premise of the whole thing to. to alleviate all the security. measures uh for Rapport to maintain. Rapport that's not a good reason to do. that for security right especially when. we're talking Afghanistan yeah we're. talking Afghanistan 2009 and uh all the. red flags are up all throughout this.

whole thing including up to that meeting. where he says he's injured he he he. provides his story along the way he. builds a story that he was in a a moped. accident or whatever he's got a hurt leg. so he's going to be W he has a cane now. he's walking with a cane he shows up and. he works this whole cover Story the. whole way through his whole intent now. that we know after the fact right even. we know after the fact now that he had a. video that that was his intent the whole. time right. but you you know the the stuff that we.

were doing over there you know you have. to. assume you know otherwise you have to. assume that that's their intent to begin. with and then uh not from a paranoid not. from a fear standpoint not from a uh. overly protective standpoint but it's. the reality of the environment at the. time you know how he's getting there who. he is the ACC that he has even if it's. uh so even if he's un even if he's been. forced to do it you know even if he's.

been forced to wear a body vest and to. gain access and somebody else is going. to be around to initiate when he gets. close to Americans so those these are. all of the things that all the guys that. I know that were there planning that. mission uh the three staffers that were. there they were thinking all these. things well what if he's unwitting or. not unwitting but what if he's uh being. co to do this so he can wear a body vest. so somebody else can clack it off on him. right when he gets close to what if you. know we don't know how do who knows this.

guy that well but that was the that was. going across that was going on across. the board in Afghanistan at the time at. all of our bases were there's different. search criteria and it was just a mess. of search criteria and what to do how to. do it um this was a new one this is. another one um and I for whatever. reasons uh get rid of all the security. measures you know when you think about. it now it's for us in the business it's. like to get rid of all security.

measures given the situation the. circumstances time and. place uh to maintain or build rapport. for a person who's been manipulating you. and cancelling not acting right come up. with excuse after excuse to not meet you. then I'm going to meet you then cancel. and then all these other things he'll. send you a video sends a video for you. to Chomp on really quick salivate over. and um you know all these flags all. these red flags went off and. disregarding all those things get rid of.

all the security measures doesn't make. sense to anybody at the time or after. the fact before or after before during. and doesn't make any any sense at all he. get out of the car decides all right. this is as close he sees a whole bunch. of people standing there and perfect for. him that this for him all the. everything the lines for him to do his. job and that's what he went there to do. get as many Americans as. possible um all guys you know see that.

there's something going on uh pretty. sure it was Scott yelling at the guy to. get his hands out you know showing me. his hands and all this other stuff. um yeah. uh uh Dan and Jeremy are with them. pulling cover. um oh shoot um Wyatt the the the fourth. guy he's he's standing by the the the. the welcoming party he's back there by. the by the door of the building so he.

survives the day because of his location. he wasn't you know he gets injured but. he doesn't die he's alive to tell the. story because of where he. was. um but yeah that. uh it was just. yeah and I the things that I was hearing. across the board not just in Coast but. across the board how we were how we were. supporting. operations in my mind I'm writing these.

thingss as a new guy I got to address. these things with with all the team. leaders and all the teams in Afghanistan. that we need to get this under control. and I'm conversing with headquarters. that this is what I'm going to do uh. this is what I see this is what I want. to do just so you know this is my things. I wanted to take care of that was one of. them was the search criteria there. um uh and Scott it was a firsttime staff.

uh deployment but he was a contractor. before that so this whole game wasn't. new to him he he had been caught before. that um so it nothing none of this was. new to him he knew exactly what to do. how it should go down was not listened. to didn't have you know for some reason. uh station management there just didn't. wanted yeah listen and do what they. needed to do and unfortunately they're. not around to answer the mail for that. anymore yeah yeah things go bad sideways.

um yeah I was in Cobble when I heard the. radio. call um so I'm talking to another former. unit guy he's working the fb's office. the Ford operating base office and. that's where the radios and the the. monitors are and all that stuff for all. their stations. and uh Predator feeds and all that stuff. and we're just having a conversation. walking back to the security office and. he comes down the hallway to get me gets. Air Ops gets all these folks uh all the.

the Chiefs that were on. the at the headquarters. there and he says Uh there's been an. explosion on Coast um we're not sure. who's injured if there's any injuries or. what the injuries are initial statements. right they're never accurate um these. are the names that we hear and he's. rattling off a bunch of names it's like. how is everybody in my mind how is. everybody how is that many people around.

an incident like that this I thought. initially it was an accident of some. sort because how is everybody from the. senior person there all the way down to. our guys how are they all in the same. place at the same time yeah so as I'm. trying to digest what's happening um and. as the medac is happening out there and. they're getting shipped to uh solo to. the cash there um they're starting to. confirm Kia and uh wounded in action and.

who's who and I so at that time. I'm so. saxs um I'm talking to saaks about you. know hey get get three three guys or. four guys however many I said I need to. I need four guys to fly with me to Coast. um like now pack a bag we got to fly. immediately and that's what I was. talking about my my communication skills. at the time I don't think I told him why. we needed to do that I just needed four.

guys to fly with me to Coast uh because. something happened in Coast I don't. remember exactly what I said I don't. think I gave him the story of what. happened um but when I find out you know. who's dead or dying out there there's. all four of our guys that are out there. on this list dead or dying so then. instead of a qrf cuz I don't know. exactly where it's happening I'm not. familiar with the Coast Area yet and I. didn't know it was on base so anything. they said I'm I'm thinking it happened.

out in town somewhere because GRS was. evolved so we're out usually out of the. wire um downtown somewhere um I I had. been to Coast yet and I had to get some. guys that have been to coast and. familiar with Coast to get there and to. go with me and. um yeah then it then it just became a. uh by the time I get there that's the. first time I find out who's dead and. who's wounded how long after the. incident did it take for you to get down.

there it probably 4 hours that's it yep. um a lot of things were going bad then. at the time uh overall in the theater. some hel uh aircraft fix Wing or rotary. Wing were socked into weather some were. not working or waiting on engine parts. and there wasn't you. know [ __ ] just a [ __ ] storm of things. that collided together in that one.

moment uh to get a response team there. so it became after I found out you know. that the whole team had been wiped out. um and it wasn't a qrf thing anymore it. was a recovery thing so uh EOD guys went. out there to do their their part on the. scene um army EOD was already on the to. work their do the EOD stuff um and by. the time I got there this is the sun had. dropped it's dark um everybody that had.

to be evacuated was evacuated um some. guys were headed to bogam at that time. already that living. injured um and then off to ldol after. that but um most of the folks. were either dead or confirmed dead or. they're on their way to get help either. on bam or l ual um and then it was. literally. just cleaning up cleaning up the mess. yeah um literally.

uh so the three guys that flew out there. with me um I apologized to them because. I don't know what information I told. them about flying down there with me. what we were doing and what had happened. I told them when we got to the airport. uh waiting for the playe there that this. is what happened and this is why we're. going and appreciate you guys stepping. up to fly out last minute with me did. this thing and all that kind of crap. um yeah we got there and then it was.

about um you know accountability of the. folks that were there uh accountability. for their stuff making sure. the their their stuff was taken care of. all their personal belongings and all. that kind of stuff. um you know sens of items all that stuff. then it became a mission of going to. grab the guy that facilitated the. Crossing so the only guys that were left. were the paramilitary guys to do. anything like that so uh between me and. and uh the other GRS guy that was there.

we were help with them plan to go talk. to this guy find him go talk to him see. what he knew when he knew and all that. kind of stuff um see if he was culpable. on any of this stuff or he was just a. facilitator just like he did what he was. told that's all he did so that was what. that became so um work with the the the. locals that were out there with. paramilitary guys with their locals to. go get this guy um and then question him. about what had happened um during that.

whole incident um but yeah that. was it was not something easily to. handle at the time I mean that was uh. the most horrific site I've seen in my. life to that point and I think since. then. um but uh again I mean. our our guys. did exactly what they were supposed to. do so even if they did that at the gate.

further away or in town our guys would. have still been dead um but that's. that's what we were there for to. minimize the damage to everybody else to. others as a protective agent you know. I'm taking a hit for you and they. weren't allowed to do that Unfortunately. they were killed and then others were. killed in the process or. wounded um so unfortunately Lessons. Learned were learned and taken forward. with protocols that alleviated this or.

that incident from happening again or at. least mitigated to the certain extent. that uh it wouldn't happen to that. extent um more more um I don't want to. say control but. um you know more listening more. confidence in your security element. there the GRS guys the listen listen to. what they have to say and actually more. training on the GRS side to convey to. them maybe this isn't such a good idea.

how about we do this right and give. Solutions um so it was a it was a. two-way street um I wasn't too happy. with the initial story that came out um. I finished that trip and went back right. before the memorial uh that they had a. headquarters and I heard the story that. was happening and they were saying it. was all sec 30's fall I mean it was. horrible and that's what they're telling. the f I was I was upset eventually they.

actually have a honest assessment on. what happened how it happened and how we. can mitigate this from happening again. um but initially it wasn't it I wasn't I. was extremely upset about the story that. was being told and and because I know. what the extent of what three officers. were down there three staffers were. doing. to try to accomplish that mission for. for that. team.

um frustration on their parts leading up. to that point and. um a lot of anger afterwards after I. heard the initial story um a lot of guys. wanted to quit at that point uh I I. didn't I I felt obligated to stay and. try to correct straighten the record on. what happened happen and how. this how our part can be better right. how can we do better um even if you meet.

that kind of. resistance uh or nobody's listening to. you how do you get them to listen to you. that kind of thing right um yeah that. was that was that was horrible that was. my third. week in a year to come of that uh bad. times in general 09 to 10 that was the. high times of the the we so and all the. bases that were being hit out there we. had GS guys assigned to them all Coast. was getting hit a lot that's the other. thing about this whole story at Coast.

they were getting hit a lot V bits at. the gates they were getting hit all it. was like normal to hear that Coast vbit. at the gate oh really imagine that you. know um jbad was getting hit you know. all the bases were getting V bitted at. the gates and it's at the gates good. that's what the gates are out there for. right um they're built to withstand. those kind of things and we're going to. lose some folks locals probably too um. but that's the job of those folks doing. the searches um unfortunately yeah so so.

to put that in context on that wasn't. the only thing happening on Coast it was. very normal to hear that they got v-. bitted again at another gate. um so it wasn't wasn't that was the. environment they're in so so to think. that you're going to alleviate all the. security for anything that was going on. there at the time is craziness yeah um. and not I'm not just saying that now and. after the fact that you know it happened.

and I know more about why it happened. um but it it it's one of those things. that never should have happened and why. did that happen communication. leadership failure fa failure of. leadership at several levels um. you know one to put that kind of. pressure on somebody that hasn't been. familiar with that kind of environment. right yeah. um in one leadership at this at that.

level out in the base to not listen to. this the professionals that are there to. help you do your job um it was seen as a. hindrance that was another thing that. changed so one of one of the folks that. was. there was also again I uh the one of the. Chiefs later on at another side I went. to had a totally different mindset on. what he thought his JS leadership was. saying to him he listened to every word.

that jurus said and it's like and had. those honest conversations let me let me. have a conversation with you about how. how you want to support this Mission um. which is exactly what needed to happen. yeah. um but unfortunately it took that for a. lot of people to wake up yeah and get. things straight and and. fortunately unfortunately I was there or. unfortunately I was there to you know. help in that regard which I feel pretty.

good about what had happened after the. fact and it wasn't and it wasn't there. to. say because I was saying it to our. management back at headquarters I was. like uh this is what I see happening. this is how I want to correct it and. they said well what's wrong with what. it's happening I said well that's how. people get killed and and I became that. guy like. the Chicken Little right yeah I was like. well do you know what's happening out.

here this is the most active that our. bases are getting hit in since we've. been here to this date it's the highest. organization it was its highest. uh in highest number of people in a war. zone like that since the Vietnam War. right and it was the most active for. bases being hit and we specifically have. GS and all the bases that were getting. hit so you know we need to do things. differently and and they said okay well.

over your year yeah there you know had. like a like. a kind of a lacad desic CO kind of uh. you know okay if that's what you want to. do no no you know do what you got to do. and then unfortunately this happened so. was that that was not the time for me to. say I told you so but it wasn't I Told. You So moment like. and it was happening on every base the. the the protocols um and. the the lack of communication between.

the security elements us our guys and. then the station Management on exactly. how to do things so we had those guys. hey we got to do these things strictly. this way and then so that doesn't sit. well with somebody who wants to get [ __ ]. done another way and that conversation. communication leadership all the way. across the board um. yeah I have that in. notes to this day those are the things. that happen lack of. leadership um and.

communication um leadership being as a. leader you know listening to who you're. leading and then uh as a follower. listening to your leader and giving. honest feedback and having that kind of. dialogue um because ultimately you have. the same goal Mission success right. you're on the same Mission you're trying. to do the same thing and how do you get. there have that discussion on how do you. get there on our case how do you get. there. safely in an environment that's not safe.

right. uh a lot of some guys are used to that. environment and some guys aren't I mean. they can't articulate that kind of stuff. as well so it's our fault too for not. put for putting guys in the wrong. positions and putting them in places. where they can't you. know they don't understand the. environment to the extent that they can. convey what security means in this. environment it's going to be ugly. regardless it's a bad place bad things. happen but guess what we're here to do a. job you're here to do a job we're here.

to facilitate you uh to uh you know talk. to folks get Intel human Intel stuff. that's what we do you know that's what. we facilitate we make it happen um get. to yes you know it's not going to be. pretty it's not going to be exactly how. I was trained might be a little bit. different um but let's do it so. everybody's. safe let's move.

into. the extraction in or I guess not. extraction the the into. Tripoli can you talk about that the. evacuation yeah and yeah 2014. um. so just two years after been got. yep and so that's a great contrast in a. successful mission where everything. works leadership is happening leadership.

is. listening uh there's. no uh so it was me having to have these. conversations um they're listening to me. about how we can do things to make. things safe um but this is tripa in 2014. so I I get there early in that that year. for my first trip to to into. Libya and the post Benghazi so there's. still that looming over everybody's head.

and and even up to the highest levels at. the White House that there's still. that's still fresh that's still in the. news media about why that happened and. all this other stuff and. uh things are going sideways in Triple A. again. um the Miss rotten AR and the militia. from isada is coming across and they. want to take Tripoli and the militia. that was there um occupying Tripoli at.

the time. um they're going to go clash with the um. m rottens m rottens are army they have. vehicles they have armored vehicles they. have tanks and they're a legitimate. Army um the militias are the militias in. Tripoli and there's a lot of them um the. ones that were in our area specifically. supposed to they were protecting the. annex and they the embassy um stuff like. that things are going sideways and then.

now the assault starts. from the Eastern side of tripol and it's. coming West and they want to occupy. tripol so the attacks on the fights on. um things are getting hit uh all the. major nodes right the hospital near the. airport triple International triple. International. Airport um the oil fields and the the. like all the the cont the the critical. nodes you know to gain access to the. control of the city they got the.

roadways from the East. um and it's just going downhill you know. really fast and in January when I show. up. um the fighting hasn't started yet but. it it kind of looks like it's kind of. tending to that so uh. uh we got uh haftar and his guys he's. doing the Libyan National Army thing. he's he's out east still um he's doing.

good things in Benghazi to make Benghazi. safe Co so post Benghazi he's the one. that goes in with his army the LNA to to. kind of you know it's it's a political. move too that he's the one that's going. to save Libya and Tripoli he's the one. that's going to be the guy who makes. this place safe so he actually does a. good job out east and in Benghazi in. that area. to make everything safe so he his guys.

are going fist to cuffs with all the. militias that are out there meanwhile. and he's he's doing this big strategic. move around South and he's going to come. in from the southwest of Tripoli to to. take Tripoli himself that's his whole. plan [ __ ] um motans are coming straight. across from east to west straight into. tripley occupied by for. whoever's in our way is is in our way. and they're gone we're killing. everything in our way uh so we had the.

zintan militia with us and our part of. Tripoli who are protecting us great. dudes. um good structure they were armed well. they were good Fighters all of them. pretty much. are um but they don't have tanks they. have gun trucks you know they have Hues. with you know dishas on on the back and. those kind of things and Rockets and. everything else that they they're. fighting with since the whole 2011. Revolution right overthrow of.

Qaddafi. um but they can't they can't they can't. keep up a fight with them as rotten's. coming across so motten start coming. across they hit. um the last I can't remember when the. last plane is that actually is able to. land at the airport before they take the. airport but I think it was Luft hanza. um who was the last commercial airlift. or airplane that land and they were. Landing they stopped landing at tripa. International Airport and they were.

landing at. um there was another airport there it. was a former our uh Air Force Base for. Kadafi um it's right on the coast the. Name Escapes me right now but they. landed there um might have been Libyan. air as well who was making a couple of. flights um but that was it everybody. else had stopped air trafficking so that. was affecting us for getting our folks. in and out because that's how we were. getting there commercial. erir. um the last flight out of um the the.

Airfield in the north of tripola uh. State Department was able to get some of. their folks on it from the embassy and I. I want to say you know not essential or. folks were were put on that were put on. that plane last minute so this this also. is the airport that they're trafficking. foreign fighters to and from Syria at. the time so we're intermixing State. Department Americans with foreign.

Fighters coming in and out of uh Syria. at the time oh man so this is this is a. airport that's swarming with bad guys. but they're in transit right they're not. there to fight they're there in. transit um we managed to get or state. department manages to get some folks on. that plane and uh that was the last. flight in or out of Libya at the time so. now whoever's in country is in country. you're.

stuck um we had a plan at the time we. started early on G the the chief that. was there allowed us. uh great guy he he asked me to come to a. meeting with him at the embassy and CU. he he didn't think they were talking. security the way that we we needed them. to be talking security. um and that was exactly what happened. um there were you.

know they're into the Neo thing right. the Neo operations takes a long time for. that to unfold and happen right. notifications have to go out you have to. be it takes a while for that to happen. and we wouldn't we weren't wanting to. stick around for all that stuff um. because there's no need for us to stick. around so we came up with a plan. initially to H down outside of the city. at a farm um for some people and then. everybody else is going to go over uh to. Tunisia and and wait there uh wait for.

all the fighting to happen and then come. back in. um that was our initial plan uh we had. safe houses and stuff already set aside. for minimal occupation to keep people. there for eventually to wait for the. fighting to end and then get ourselves. work our way back in the. tripa. um but over already so I'm there January.

February and March and uh I'm able to go. home uh get a flight out and I and I get. a flight back early because I go back. and I was like if I don't get back early. I might not get a flight because the. flights are going to stop there's no. more flights in the country um so I'll. be lucky to get a flight if I can get a. flight if somebody's right and it was. lon's I think was the last ones into. the uh tripa International um so I go. back out there I'm back long enough to.

say it's a bad situation uh to my deputy. chief I said hey. uh I would like to get back out there. sooner than later not my full 90 days. back in the States because it might not. be there when I get back so I'd like to. get back out there to do some work um. that was evacuation corridors like. getting ready to leave evacuation. corridors burying cash sites um on the. coast you know so uh bls's surveying.

those uh for possible recovery or erass. for us. um bearing cash sites establishing with. with the few op folks that we had there. you know getting the safe site safe. houses established equipping those with. food and water and living uh you know. food water blankets you know shelter all. that stuff uh we had one in town we had. one out of town and evacuation Corridor. I all that stuff it was a lot of work to. do uh emergency uh like solar panels to.

charge rep uh rechargeable batteries for. things and we were doing all this stuff. uh building out go bags for everybody go. bags um uh bugout bags the whole thing. establishing a uh you know. policies and procedure and it wasn't a. hard thing to do at the time because. everybody there was something exploding. multiple times a day yeah uh so it. wasn't wasn't anything to convince.

anybody to do all these things um and. then there was this [ __ ] was going on. for a long time before this happened. yeah the uh well so the evacuation. happens in July so from January to July. it. just downhill in that that I mean. January. February uh. what what is it the Ministry of Foreign. Affairs and like you can't we're having. we're not we know why it's happening but.

um when I'm back in in in DC and. headquarters trying to get stuff done. it's like how do I get a visa to Libya. how do we get people Li Libyan visas. well that whole part of the government. had already shut down there's people. working in these buildings but they're. not being paid they're just there cuz. that's what they did for their living. and they're just there yeah you know. there's no more government so uh there's. the GNA and the GNC that are are. competing to be the new government for.

Libya at the time then there's haftar. and Libya National Army out east he's. getting ready to be the guy uh the. next whatever he wanted to call himself. uh king or whatever of Libya take koffi. spot um then the GNC GN GNA um all the. militias fighting for control of their. turfs um that was a mess and just to get. across town to get through militias from.

one militia to another damn uh was a. nightmare. um yeah a lot of lot of guns being. pointed at people a lot of fire you know. warning shots right but there but you. know it doesn't matter if you get hit. with a warning shot it's going to hurt. just the same yeah um. but uh yeah it was a mess uh funny thing. happens always in bad times though we're.

at a meeting we take the chief to a. meeting it's at a restaurant downtown. it's at a cool place in town Town very. Scenic um the Marcus aurelus Arc is a. restaurant right near it very cool place. to hang out no [ __ ] yeah. uh so I go in with the chief he goes to. have his meeting I go back out with my. the guy that I went with the other GRS. guy we're having a conversation I don't. want to leave him out there by himself.

for too long um because he's monitoring. outside activity and let me know inside. hey people are forming because there was. a lot of that going on a lot of just. random fighting on the street so he's. monitoring that while I go inside I come. back outside. and. uh several things funny things happen. during this time where it's just wild. west right yeah everybody's got guns and. they're shooting just randomly um so.

he's got goes to do this meeting and I. come back out to talk with uh my guy out. front and um somebody behind me about 20. feet maybe start shooting a gun and it's. a pistol it's not AK or anything it's. some sort of pistol and it's one of. those drills that you have right spin. spin around going to town right so as my. back was to the shooter I spin around. I'm going for my gun and I see that this.

guy's facing down the street and he's. just shooting his pistol to clear the. street because he doesn't want these. people near him on the street so he's. shooting his gun like he's yelling at. him get out of the way so I was like. what the [ __ ] man and the guy that's. with me he's doing so we're as he's fa. he has to get over to the side a little. bit so he's in line with the shooter and. not me offline with me so he's doing the. same thing going over to the side you. know he's getting ready to go shoot this. burn this guy down and I'm spinning. around like it's a you know that that.

drill on the Range um and then it ends. up to be this guy's just cranking off. rounds to clear the streets so I was. like okay all right whatever okay don't. and I'm looking around like nobody saw. us going for our guns like are we you. know we still kind. of not blending in but we we didn't show. our hand right and um too much and uh. it's like I got to tuck the gun back. away and let's get back to business.

another one was a el pre you know El pre. drill yeah um we get to another spot and. we get hemmed up at a checkpoint and. they start calling hey I I can't make. this decision I can't make this decision. I got to call my boss the Libyan the. militia guy that's there all right call. him he calls one guy I can't make the. decision uh I got to call my boss all. right call your boss well I get out of. the car I told everybody hey stay in or. the Ops guy that we had I stay in the.

car and the other GS guy driver I said. I'm going to go to the trunk of the car. uh the front of the car put out a map. explain to him what we wanted to do and. I'm going to face you you face this way. you watch my back I'll watch back behind. the vehicle and if you see something. with your hand just point in a direction. right two that way three that way. whatever so I know which direction. they're starting to mass cuz they're. just curious always but just so I know. where everybody's at without me having.

to look around constantly right I did. the same thing for him and there was a. gun truck with a diska sitting right. there so that was like the end all B but. nobody was on it uh so it was going to. take him some time to get up there so we. had a little bit of time to you know to. work with um and at one point I have a. guy with a shotgun this young kid he's. he's he's wired for S he's ready to just. he's ready oh who's this you know we. gotta get we got to get it on right so. he was my wor he was my most concerned.

like he was on my thoughts the most it's. like Dam this guy's just gonna go half. coock in a minute and start shooting um. so I like okay so my hands are on the. hood and I'm thinking uh and I'm getting. these signals like like two right behind. you right so I you know look behind me. there's two guys there and they're with. their AKs and they're posturing you know. to intimidate us and I was like okay so. guy with the. shotgun two guys with the AK behind me I.

was like I got this this is like the. elpress driller yeah I was like and the. the guy uh the Ops guy we had in the car. um I get on the radio and I was like hey. this is going to be. um the I don't know the the first live. fire elpress drill I was like that's. what you said yeah I was like I got this. this is gonna be like this is gonna be. the coolest story ever they're gonna. have to rename the. drill and uh you know couple of Chuckles.

inside the vehicle and um it you and and. of the story though that it worked out I. didn't have to shoot anybody um but dude. with the shotgun that's that was in my. mind if if anybody raised gun you know. that was going to be my thing El presses. on it like beep yeah hands off the drill. then start going to town right um and we. joke about that even today uh about me. almost getting an opportunity to do a. life fire.

elpress um but things like that happen. but. anyway uh things are going sideways I. tell my chief back at headquarters hey. this this is this it might not be there. when I when I get back if I go on my. schedule I need to get back out there to. help out we need as many guys on the. ground and I need more. more uh contractors go with me um. because it was a small it was a small. staff right um uh and I do that I Stay.

come back for a month I get my orders. and go back out and a couple guys join. me out there on the last flights into. Libya um ends up to be 16 of us GRS guys. which was the most of the whole station. um at the time uh magta the Marines had. moved in flown in to secure the embassy. and the. annex um so it already deteriorated to. that point we can't do any more work cuz. either our our the folks we need to talk.

to can't make it to us because they're. getting. threatened uh if they go talk to the. Americans then you know kind of you're. with us or you're against us kind of. threats um or you go talk to the. Americans we're going after your family. all those things were going on the time. so we had a bunch of no- shows our local. guard Force wasn't showing up to work. because they were getting threatened too. and they had sometimes crossed the. fighting to get to us and one guy did. that uh one of the local guards there he. came to work one day and he said I can't.

go home I'm worried about my family but. if I go there's fighting I got to cross. the fighting and he stayed there for a. couple days and then eventually he left. because he was concerned about his. family um and then we never saw him. again so it was just us uh whatever we. had a slice of the magta uh marines that. were there um and two of our static. Security Guys and and that was. it the um the zintan militia who was. always camped or parked when I say.

camped they were parked out front with. in gun trucks to help secure the area. well they were in the fight already so. they weren't doing that anymore um a lot. of fighting going on sporadic fighting. during the day and the night constant. stuff going. on um missiles flying everywhere. the the rockets and stuff that uh what. is that the one the the the grad rocket. or something that just flies off and.

just wherever it goes and lands right. some of them impact our camp you know. and it's not like we. were we know the missile types that are. flying around that area and it's not. something that anybody could have aimed. and hit deliberately but we're just in. the in the crossfire of all the stuff. going on so we're getting hit with disar. rounds we're getting hit with random. Rockets um and so we're we're we're. planning an evacuation we need to get. out of the. way we're not here to do the Tactical. stuff the Tactical Intel collection.

piece of it task force green was there. with us um they're very helpful in a lot. of the prep in the. planning um so there. was all the right people in the in the. right place in a bad time to make this. happen um and and the support the. leadership that allowed us to do what we. needed to do to get out of there or to. plan an an. evacuation what ended up happening um. the day that we were going to tell the.

Ambassador uh that we were leaving and. the RSO that was there uh to let them. know hey take our numbers off the books. we're good we're going to we're going to. we're not going to be part of your. numbers in this Neo thing and don't. don't worry about us we got it we got. ourselves we'll take care of ourselves. the Ambassador was like what you guys. are leaving you guys are leaving what. uh wait where where you going you know.

and so we had to Devol some of the plan. that we had in the safe houses and stuff. like that but we just said we're going. to go camp out we're going to hide. outside the city in a place that we have. uh wait you know for us to to live there. for a couple weeks or a month however. long we need to food and water all the. stuff and we have a clear route to. Tunisia to supply that thing um and some. locals that would probably help. facilitate us getting food and water. more food um and then the rest of the. folks are going to go uh drive out of.

country and then wait it out either go. home or next door in the neighboring. country and uh uh tenisia to to if they. could stay there just stay there and. wait or go back home um and help us from. there um or um what was the other Malta. was another place they could have went. to go support us from Malta or sigell or. any other place just stay by somewhere. and and support us with stuff um uh the.

task force at the time was based out of. Stewart so um they could have. facilitated anything from Stewart coming. our way um not as a response Force but. for supplies and and. sustainability. um so was going we when we went to go. tell her that uh. um there was. uh while we were. there a strange thing happened at the.

embassy so it is a a normal trip it's. only a mile down the road from us we go. through the neighborhoods to get there. and usually you hit the the local guard. force is on the street and there's cops. local cops uh living police that are. there and then you go through through. that you meet another checkpoint there's. a chicane you get to this barrier and. that's the actual King Kong wall gate. that it was just built there with a nice.

little secure. Booth nobody was. there oh [ __ ] yeah and it was the. weirdest feeling it's like one of those. times when this is so quiet it's scary. something's getting ready to happen yeah. um cuz when the locals aren't there. they're privy to something that's. happening well uh next door to the. Embassy was a uh military. Barracks um that was on the target list. I'm anounce to us and anybody else. except for the locals the M rottens had.

targeted there was an oil field across. the highway so we're talking maybe a. mile away. um and then the military Barracks that. were like right next to the Embassy um. so we're going there to deliver the. message to the Ambassador that hey we're. out we're all packed up we're going to. leave in a couple days. and don't worry about us right we're. locking the gates behind us and we'll be. in Tunisia if you need us and so I'm in. the right front seat of this car Our.

Land Cruiser as we round the corner and. I got the our our uh Deputy Chief and. our Task Force Team lead with us to go. deliver the message to the Ambassador. that we're leaving and we round the. corner and it was like crickets like. where is everybody so so slow roll slow. roll what is going on here right and I. get out of the vehicle and I go knock. this this armored glass bunker that the.

the control arm the control gate is. being operated in and there's usually. somebody in the. booth couldn't tell if there's anybody. Booth so I go to the booth I get out of. the vehicle I go to the booth and it. is the most. quiet it was just Eerie like silence no. Birds no City noises nothing and I go up. to the window and and my pocket knife so. I took it out and wrapped on the window. and I was like hey I I see somebody it's.

honered down right there right and I. knocked on the window this is armored. glass I don't even know if you could. hear it but eventually Peaks up over the. counter and I had my my bad my excess. badge that my Embassy badge I say hey. say we need to get in so he reaches up. pushes the button gates open it's like. all right let's go let's get in I get in. the vehicle and usually there's some. activity in the embassy compound it's a.

small compound but usually there's. something there's people walking. something nothing and I was like as soon. as I said This is So Silent this is the. weirdest thing. ever that's when they attack starts from. wherever they were at they were starting. to shoot at the the barracks and the oil. fields right. Diss and then it. got it was the then it went from Total. silence to the loudest thing you ever. heard in your life and I can as we you.

know gas gas gas get to the new it was a. brand new part of the embassy they just. built it. out um and they hadn't occupied it yet. it was it was hardened structures right. the Chancery and everything just just. finished building that stuff and they. were getting ready to move in. um then it just became even in in our. armored car it was the. loudest I can it just it was the loudest. thing I ever heard in my life um but uh.

almost like a Tetris game you can see. it's a it's a a concrete block wall. right this wall is disintegrating. because it's taken round it's not direct. fire stuff they're not shooting at the. embassy they're shooting at the barracks. and the oil fields but all those rounds. were in a beaten Zone the diska rounds. cuz they're just look you know rocking. that thing those round just flying down. range somewhere uh the the the wall is. disintegrating I was it was just the. weirdest thing um gas gas gas to the.

Chancery and I'm yelling the the the new. code to the front door as and we're. going to drive as close as we can. because there's a there's a curb some. bushes some steps before you get to the. front door of the new Chancery and. that's that's what they said they would. be they're in the new Chancery uh making. coms with headquarters and talking back. and forth State Department stuff on what. they're going to do um so um we're gas.

gas gas we're racing towards the the. Chancery and I'm yelling out the new. code because uh they're you know the. guys in the back so Deputy Chiefs there. and the task force guy they're already. in scat mode they're going to I said. open the right door and scout out the. right door I'll be right behind you and. uh because I'm grabbing all the stuff. from the car right and as I'm grabbing. all the stuff putting it in my go bag I. was like hey get out the right side and. go to the door if you get there before.

me it's whatever it is 1 2 3 4 You know. I just kept saying the code to what it. wasn't 1 2 3 4 but it was whatever it. was and and soon as that door open like. gone uh depy gets out he's on the right. side of the car sitting behind me um he. takes a minute he Ducks his head a. little bit puts his backpack on and then. takes off running task force guy you. know he's in a little bit better shape. he passes him and the floor's slippery. right so it's the hard marble or.

whatever it is they put on those floors. that when it's clean it's slippery yeah. um the full head of steam towards the. door and I'm trying to call inside the. Chancery to the RSO that's there and. he's not answering but he's now in the. bunker and I don't know that he's there. um or he's he's like two rooms deep into. this Chan it's all hard and structured. and you can hear the rounds hitting the. building and all around us and it was. just the loudest thing ever.

um as soon as the task for he's out I'm. I'm out running I told the uh the other. GS guy who's driving I was like come out. my side we're going this way because. that was where all the the impact was. happening come out my side let's go in. um I started running and I'm yelling the. code for the guy CU I see him struggling. at the door the so first thing when this. task for guy he's running he's full full. head of steam maybe I don't know. 20t so he stops to because he's getting.

ready to come to the door slides into. the door and smash he smashes into the. door and he's trying to punch the code. in or the deputy chief he's getting out. he's out a full head of steam he slides. smashes into the task force guy he's. still trying to punch the code I get out. I'm running towards the door and I see. what's happening this little you know. clown show thing happening and I'm. yelling the code and he's punching it in. and punching it in and whoever was. inside heard that somebody was hitting. the buttons and then it was one of the. rsos that opened the door and then and.

then in we go and then um as I'm running. I'm running to the chanc I motioned to. the their follow car that was behind us. we had two gs guys in the follow car I'm. I'm grabbing my stuff I grab the medkit. and my go bag and I'm running and I wave. them like like come inside cuz our cars. aren't going to take this kind of. beating like you know what's going on. out here um so I motioned them to come. in um my guy the driver he's in.

uh um and I'm peeking outside the door. waiting for our other guys I keep it I'm. keeping it open a little bit so they. don't struggle to get in the door and. I'm peeking outside and I like what are. they doing what are they waiting on. right and they thought they were safe in. in the car so I mo i motioned them to to. come inside and they're like no we're. going to stay here and I was like no no. come over here and I so I run out there. and I open the door and I was like hey. get your ass inside cuz there's more. protection in there than there is in. this car and you could see this wall.

like a Tetris scame just dis. disintegrating and you can hear the. impacts of the dish grounds hitting the. building it's loud as [ __ ] um and even. more so inside you couldn't hear inside. because of the impacts of the build on. the building you had to be face to face. talking to to somebody for them to hear. you and that's exact when we all got. into the uh Chancery and we're talking. to the Ambassador like hey we got our. way out don't worry about us we're still. heavily breathing because everybody's. doing that 20 you know just the 20 feet.

Sprint but we're all just winded um and. we're leaning across this table talking. to her like Hey we're we're done we're. out we got a plan we're we're out of. here um she's like wait a minute no what. what are you guys doing and it's like. well don't worry about us Mr RSO and I. mean we're good we're we're going we're. leaving don't worry about us nobody's. going to be at the embassy you can have. your magta Marines back you we'll bring. them over here first and then we'll. we'll scat um or you guys can go over.

there whatever you guys want to do it's. it's your facility too um but we're. we're gone and she said wait a minute. where are you going you know and we let. go told her the plan and she's like well. we're coming with you well wait a minute. let me and she's talking to Ambassador. Kennedy who was back in DC for State. Department answering the mail on this. side um and she's telling them hey the. the guys at the annex the annex has a. way out of here and we're going to go.

with them you know seeking approvals on. all that kind of. stuff and uh they're like okay well okay. if that's the plan then that's the plan. you know take the flag down and go out. with the the. annex um and then that became another. issue they have local na Third Country. Nationals that they had the bengalis. were at another camp that came and did. all the servicing the. local uh Maintenance Cleaning and all. that stuff they said plus 86 Bengali.

that holy [ __ ] at the camp and I and I'm. telling I'm there with the our chief I. said we cannot take responsibility for. them if that's the case we're on our we. got to go on our own um and the task. force guy is like yeah no we're not. taking this this guy said they they're. either on their own or they're with you. guys and we're out um and so she's. conveying this message back to DC and. um the conclusion was okay they're going.

to do their own thing they'll make their. own way out however they or stay it's up. to them and we'll we'll go out with you. and we hadn't planned on it was. only 20-some of us and ended up to be. 154 people total with Embassy folks and. for for me and the Staffing for on the. GS side of the house we had enough. people for our people and that was it so. then it. became.

uh trying to facilitate you know 150 you. know the rest of the embassy folks and. the Ambassador and her dog and her dog. yeah um and I she was supposed to come. out with me and my chalk I was taking. the senior level folks from the annex uh. they were going to be in my car and. going to go out so that made you know. made sense for her to be in that car she. wanted ultimately be in the last vehicle. uh which is fine I tried to say well we. can go to the border and I can wait on.

the Libyan side so you can be the. official last person out of Libya but we. need to get you out of here. um she wasn't having that she wanted to. be in the last vehicle and she wasn't. quite in the last vehic we had some. maneuver vehicles with fighters in it in. the last vehicle but uh um she was happy. with where she ended up sitting. um we decided you know we had a timeline. figured out on our own for just us and.

it was uh two days from the time we made. the notification to be out of there at a. certain time of the day on two days in. two days with destruction plans all the. everybody back at the annex was already. doing that um burning crushing you know. shredding things they're already they're. getting the place ready. um then we ended up having to wait on. you know our state department colleagues. um they wanted to bring all their stuff.

the big mrap that was sitting in in the. can know you're going to have to leave. that here we don't want so our idea was. as low profile as we can be we don't. want to look menacing we don't want to. look aggressive we don't want to look. like a fighting force to invite any uh. fight un wanted attention yeah so. they're we're we're going to capitalize. on a breaking or a a len fire in their. normal day every day consistently they. started fighting and they stopped. fighting at consistent times of the day. um the morning was the best for us to.

give us as much time to do all the. shredding and burning and all that stuff. prepare to go um so it was like 6. o'clock in the morning was the last. window between they they they stopped. fighting morning prayers and then from. then to we had about a 2-hour window. before the next sporadic fighting. started so they you typically prayed. they ate and then they refit the fight. right they go back to their camps bases. wherever they're from they put more ammo.

on the vehicles get ready for the day's. fight and get ready for the night's. fight most of the fighting was happening. at. night and. um. uh so the heke of the fighting was. easily from 11:00 in the morning to 5: in the morning and uh Ambassador the. Ambassador wanted to leave at I know for. whatever reason she said 1:00 in the. morning 1 or 2:00 in the. morning.

and we were like well that's the worst. time to go everybody's on the streets. fighting each other at that point it's. just the no we can't do that um we're. going to leave at 6 if you're with us. then we're leaving at 6 we're going to. start. marshalling and leaving at 6 in groups. uh. at the beginning of our 2hour window. we're starting to leave in groups. um it wasn't going to take us two hours. to do that but eventually it did because. we had I don't even how no 30 however.

many vehicles that was to get 154 people. out yeah that's a lot of vehicles yeah. some 30 something vehicles I think it. was 34 vehicles um Suburbans Land. Cruisers. Hues um and we were doing all the. command and control for it um the annex. was um had had almost a GRS in every. vehicle in the front and back of each TR. that went. um uh I was going to take our VIPs uh in.

my vehicle uh minus the Ambassador who. wanted to ride in another vehicle for. for whatever her reasons were. um yeah and then leave at six uh we had. just built a rear entrance to the annex. at the time where it was a small place. you can only go with that many vehicles. we had planted it out to where we're. staging down the center line of this. this Villa and we can stage perfectly. pointed straight out the gate um so. we'll Marshall all the vehicles and get.

them pointed straight out the gate and. then in chalk order we'll leave in. groups um and so we told State. Department okay this is what we got to. do we Tas organize everybody Vehicles. everybody in the vehicles. uh uh and come in the back gate. so you can go in that one you know in. behind the flow out the gate right yeah. morning the departure. some one or two o'clock in the morning.

they start showing up with their first. vehicles and they're coming in the front. gate. and I don't know who did it we were the. ones controlling the front gate it was. Americans there at the front gate um. they open the front gate so they can get. in um you can hear the fighting going on. in town. um the the city was already on fire the. city was literally burning Triple A was. on fire everywhere around us. everything's burning um and so that was. the smell you smelled the whole time.

during this whole just whatever toxic. fumes there were that's what we were. smelling and breathing the whole time. but as they're coming in it's almost. like fog because at that time of the. night or that that's the heaviest. fighting so there's. just uh debris from explosions and stuff. like that right. um and impacts and all those kind of. things and it it look it was like a fog. fog Bank um but so whoever opened the. gate open the gate let the state. department folks in um and now we have.

you know Vehicles crunching into each. other and just all messed up everywhere. that was a [ __ ] show we had to get you. know under control and so we took all. the vehicles all the keys of the. vehicles and and put them in order that. we needed them in and that was a [ __ ]. show just because of the the the the. space that we had we didn't have any. space yeah um but that took most of the. morning just to do that um then. at about 4 something 4:30 5:00.

Ambassador is getting antsy we finally. got all the embassy folks with us on our. side and we're waiting for six o'clock. six o'clock the first chalk is ready to. go and it's a. Communications uh Adon or advanc is kind. of what we considered it had all had. satellite Communications it was it was. going to be one of the so in that part. of Libya in that part of the world the. satellite that we had was at a 10 degree. angle so it's low on the horizon so to. get any kind of mobile Communications.

ain't happening um so we were going to. kick out uh you know static. communication sites they're going to get. static Point all the antennas at 10. degree angle at this asmith and then uh. get comps uh with all the other elements. in DOD that were that were tracking our. Communications and movement they had. another vehicle that was going to leave. later on and they were going to Leap. Frog so so they would be static have. time to set up and then they set up. communication and that one would you. know Leap Frog over and then in between.

that all of our vehicles were going to. you know roll past them and use them as. checkpoints right yeah um communication. checkpoints um and at 4:30 5:00. Ambassador was getting ansy she's like. we need to leave now cuz it was bad I. mean you can hear the fighting it was. loud. um but I mean we were used to that it. had been going on for months at this. point we like yeah no you hear that's. it's going no well I don't want to drive. through yeah I don't want to drive why.

would you want to drive through that uh. no we'll wait at six o'clock six o'clock. they'll stop shooting and then then. we'll go and it took all of our our. deputy chief that's what his sole job. was uh to calm her down and he. we know what we're doing we're going to. leave at the right time calm her down um. but up until the moment we left she. was complaining the whole time um we. need to get out of here we need to go.

and then became then six o'clock like. magic six o'clock went from the loudest. thing you ever heard to Dead Silence. yeah right and then the sun's coming. up kind of has a the the most cool. temperature that it's going to be in. Libya during the time of day uh which is. another thing we were considering on you. know heat exhaustion and those kind of. things um and at six o'clock gates open. first truck leaves um and then I think.

it was every 15minute increments another. truck would leave um and it was going. like clockwork it and it just it worked. and we so personally I was in the third. chalk um it's supposed to be the command. control uh or the command vehicle not. control vehicle but all the C2 folks in. that one. [Music]. um and it was other than the Ambassador. who wanted to ride somewhere else. um yeah it worked out we we ran into.

some some dudes and M uh the Zen tannies. that were are friends and they were and. they knew who we were um but we didn't. also want to tip our hat to them either. we didn't tell them we were leaving. either. um and we saw them and by the time they. probably saw me in my chalk and all the. vehic Vehicles cuz I probably had six or. seven with me. um they probably knew at that point that. we were leaving CU they had already. seeing another Chalk in front of me of.

five or six vehicles and then the. communication Adon was just three or. four vehicles um one was a big big like. delivery truck bread truck um with all. the communication stuff on it it was. this had antennas all the stuff with. magnets on it stuck to it and it's the. porcupine of antennas. um yeah so you know we passed them and. they they were doing exactly what we we. knew they were doing because we had been. you know working with them this whole. time um refitting to fight right uh.

taking care of the wounded and injured. and putting more ammo cleaning out the. brass of their pick the the Hues and. putting more ammo in it and wiping down. their guns you know the big the dishas. and all that stuff and they were doing. all that stuff and that was like normal. stuff and we'd see him and. wave as we passed by like hey guys um. you know Deuces yeah um so it worked I.

mean it worked and like I mentioned. before. um FL vehicle broke down uh we had to. end up Towing that thing it was kind of. a funny looking thing coming across. Libya Tunisian border um because we. everybody thought it got hit and all. this other stuff stuff and um but we. said that every every chalk is. self-sufficient so whe if you had the. tow vehicle it's you guys that are. Towing each other uh gas everybody had. gas in their cars we were hoarding gas.

up to that point because all the gas. stations well those are the things that. that were also being occupied by the Mis. Rott because everybody needed gas for. their vehicles and they continue the. fight everybody was fighting for the. gas um the gas points it wasn't. necessarily a gas station but it was. where they had all the bottles and jugs. of gas yeah um and we' up to that point. we' been going to these places to get. more gas for us um so we had plenty of. gas uh plenty of gas made a few people. uncomfortable because now we have gas in.

the back of our Hues and what if that. gets hit and fights fire it's like well. you probably have a fire I mean what can. you do what can you do I mean it it is. we got what we have right. um uh you know how long did it take how. long from 6:00 a.m. to oh my 24 hours 24. hours EV of Evac a 24hour evacuation. route. yep with 150 people that was brutal I'll.

bet and we'd been up for 3 days before. that so it was a continuous uh all the. destruction plan we're we were up we. it's not every once in a while I'd say. hey man if you guys need a break go grab. a couple of Winks right go get some. sleep CU eventually you're going to pass. out if you don't get any sleep go get. get sleep and they're like no no boss I. got this and they're crushing things and. so over time all of the mechanical stuff. that we had the shredders the the nail. guns and everything else broke because. it was overused we didn't have it there.

was and we had multiples of everything. but everything broke down so then it was. a burn pit then there was literally. crushing like uh Sledgehammer exercise. drills crushing radios and stuff. so you. know it's what we had Dam and trying to. crush things and then crush it and then. burn it throw it in a burn pit um go. bags I tried to stress that point hey go. bags only you know nothing else comes. with you whatever's in your go bag or.

you're wearing that's it um don't leave. anything behind no guns no ammo bring. all your whatever you can fit in your go. bag uh in your go bag in your bugout bag. uh that's the all the livable stuff. right um go bag ammo and water that's. all you put in that thing U maybe a. snack or two if you have a power bar or. something like that it's all that goes. in that thing that's going to be on you. the whole time uh so they were pretty. good about that and so it only took us.

it's only a three and a half um wasn't. long to get to the Border oh really um. yeah so the first 30 minutes were. probably the. most uh probably contentious right. because that's where all the fighting. was happening we're going through an. active war zone to get past all this um. so whether it was a mistaken identity uh. itchy trigger finger all those things we. knew we weren't going to get targeted um. because we knew that the M rotten hadn't.

made it to this point where this road. that we were taking we can take it. without only crossing our guys the. zintan. militia. um uh so first 30 minutes everybody's. queued up heads up eyes up you know head. on a swivel all those kind of things um. be ready to you know get in a fight and. maneuver the vehicles for the so the so. for the drivers in the vehicles they. were all GRS guys so we're going to. maneuver you know uh typical maneuvering. uh you know fire maneuver kind of stuff.

if we have to um but gas gas gas keep. heading west you know worst case just. keep heading west and we'll link up at. all these different Community. checkpoints along the Route um we got. out without you know it's perfect quiet. time of the day nice friendly waves on. the way out by our friend the zint. tannies and uh done we do some other. meetings along the way to facilitate our. our uh evacuation to the border and it.

only. takes you know three and a half four. hours maybe I'm thinking to get to the. Border um but we had but from that so we. go south of the city and follow. the the terrain which is a huge you know. seaw wall uh way Inland and follow that. all the way to Tunisian border um and so. we're we're way down south in Tunisia. and when that most of the time it took. to get up north to Tunis was the rest of.

the 24 hours that we had like the the 18. hours that we had left right yeah um we. had to stop at an Airfield is we had to. drop off the state department packs at. an Airfield so they can get on a plane. and fly to wherever it is they flew I. think they flew to cill or something um. they had a plane waiting on us so then. the rest of the drive to Tunis was just. um just our office folks okay so and. about 5 6:00 in the morning the next day. we pulled into the embassy in. Tunis totally beat falling asleep with.

the wheel all those things hey wake up. let me take over for a minute right yeah. um yeah that was a long drive just it. was brutal um but yeah Pro and like I. was saying before probably the most. successful evacuation that you never. heard about yeah no kidding because it. worked we had 154 people um from tripola. at its worst to uh Tunis unscathed uh.

one vehicle that was that uh broke down. on us um and that was it nobody hurt no. shots fired nothing um that's incredible. yeah that that was pretty neat and it's. probably half a dozen people that I can. really attribute that to task force TL. the chief the deputy chief the two. operations officers that were in there. doing that I'm going to miss somebody. and uh just great people all the right.

people to do that at the right time in a. bad time in Libya right that's exactly. what it took uh support from the top. down um but somebody wrote a book on. this right. uh our. analyst uh wrote a book like the darkest. hour or something like that is the name. of it I can't I I'll send you that one. it's it's it's a good reading that's. from her perspective she was actually I.

identified her as a part of all the. group I ran out of GRS guys I ran out of. Fighters barel chest and Freedom. Fighters right I ran out of them it's. like so who's left that I can put in a. seat that's going to help me or help us. get out and you know help help me helped. the group to get out I was like well uh. rain well I don't know if I should say. her call S because she I think she. changed it U for the book purposes so. anyway uh she was good she was very.

motivated she was good at her job as an. analyst but if we went to the range to. shoot guns she wanted to know yes I need. to shoot my gun because I haven't shot. her in a while all right right come on. let's do let's go do this right. um she was uh very proactive in in all. the this stuff how are we getting out. asking like good questions during the. whole planning process she wasn't like. directly involved in it but as an. analyst uh we were using her a lot for. her information on what she thought you. know the routes the the zentan you know.

intent what their possible you know. actions were Miss rottens what they were. possibly going to do and uh what tap are. going to do with the LNA are they going. to this one out for a little bit and. wait for everything to happen to come. you know all this stuff she's great at. what she did and so I asked her to sit a. shotgun with another GRS dudes in the. back of my chalk so she was going to. manage the the comps right so GS. driver can drive and he can talk on the. radio too but just so he doesn't have.

his hands full and all the stuff to. worry about I it's going to be she's. going to talk through or TC is going to. talk through uh our our analyst you know. he's GNA say what to say um hold the mic. for him to talk into and all those kind. of things right and so don't I I told. her not to worry about it you're I'm not. going to make you a DRS person overnight. um you're just going to help uh you know. TC do what he does um and make sure that. if somebody takes a wrong turn and that.

everybody stays behind me keep an eye on. where I am at and don't let anybody take. wrong turns don't let anybody get out of. the vehicles if you see some get out of. the vehicles then speak up about it on. the radio um or if you see something. everybody's got that responsibility if. you see something say something so we. can have eyes on it you know shot sped. or whatever it is um gun trucks or. whatever it is they say right so she. tells a pretty good story. um turns out I may have given her too.

much responsibility for some stuff I. don't know I don't I still honestly. don't think so she performed flawlessly. through this whole thing I had no issues. with her at all before during or after. um I thought she did a great job it just. kind of messed her up in the head a. little bit unfortunately and apologized. to her I wish I could uh to her about. that but you know it's what we had to. work with and I was left with Tas. organizing with what I had on the ground. and and.

uh I I guess even contrary to what she. believed in herself I believed that she. can do it and she did it um that's. awesome yeah it's a good honor you know. she did a great job she did exactly what. I would have wanted did everything and. she was the linguist for our our chalk. too. so if I got out of the vehicle and so I. told her if I get out of the vehicle you. get out of the vehicle and and come see. me and we'll go talk to this this Libyan. um and and we had to do that several. times along the egress route uh to to.

help facilitate the next the next leg. from militia to militia we had to be. handed off from one to the other um and. then at the border same thing um and she. did great she did flawlessly she was a. good shooter she knew how to handle. herself with a gun another good. quality to have right and especially in. that scenario yeah and I had confidence. in her to do what it is I was asking her. to do else I wouldn't have asked her to. do it and I said I got her and TC. together I said you know what you're.

don't worry about being so like feeling. responsible and she was that kind of a. person uh which is great another great. characteristic of hers that I capitalize. on to use her to get help us get out um. to help me man the the chaos um very. levelheaded uh took Direction well gave. Direction well I. mean she did.

flawlessly and you're not in contact. with her anymore no I'll bet she sees. this I'll bet she sees this yeah well if. she does she did a great job and I told. her that at the time too when we finally. get uh to the Border uh and then when we. finally get to at the embassy said hey. you did a great job and she seemed fine. at the time um and and even during she's. and the book is a good read cuz she. actually what is the name of the book I. think the darkest hour okay or In My.

Darkest Hour something like that. um yeah uh and and that's normal too you. know for all of us that have been. through this to have you know some kind. of um issues with the after fact right I. mean that's that's like normal yeah um. and that's that's I hope I hope that she. gets that out of the whole ordeal too. it's like hey she's no different than. any of us that went through similar. things right yeah um we all go through.

that U and we all have to have help. sometimes afterwards or maybe later on. down the road her time was then and um. yeah I think part of the writing of the. book was. probably therapeutic yep for her to like. deal with the situation and and somehow. just get it out there and say it I mean. was probably helpful I get that um it's. a well-written book I don't. know it's interesting to me it's. interesting read to me because I know uh.

what was going on at the time when she. describes things and I know who the. people she's talking to because she had. the chains the call signs and. um for. uh you know like obvious she was told to. change the call sign so um she did uh. great read great read I wouldn't never. known that she was going through that at. the time like the way she go describes. her. uh I want to say her. uh I questioning her confidence in.

herself to do what I asked her to do. because I always asked her to do. something when I asked her to do. something I said you okay with that um. if not let me know um because that's. okay but just let me know and she's like. no I'm I'm okay with that and it wasn't. just a like do this thing it was like. you want to do this and then get with. who me or somebody else and we'll we'll. coach you through exactly what we're. asking you to do like manage a radio. turn a radio on what the radio looks.

like how to change the channels in a. radio right those kind of things um for. for the the GRS guy that's with her so. he doesn't have his Tans tied up and. he's trying to drive a vehicle yeah. right um this is how you change the. channel in a radio uh this is how you. talk on a radio this is all how it. functions um these are the checkpoints. along the way these are the things you. have to be aware of so when we're. through checkpoints she's in the trail. vehicle so those are the things that. that she had to do in route like uh uh. Trail vehicle up when they're we past a.

certain point right um and she was right. on The Mark with all that stuff the. whole way through yeah uh great job told. her that then uh thanked her for it she. performed FL and I didn't see her after. that we kind of all kind of disbanded to. the winds at that point um and then. apparently you know she's having uh she. had I don't know how she's doing now but. um perfectly normal I mean that's that's.

yeah. no yeah nothing against her for that it. happens to all of us yeah um but she did. a great job nice yeah well let's take. let's take a quick break and then uh and. we'll start to wrap it up sounds good. all right yeah. what's going on. [Music].

patreon join me on vigilance Elite. patreon for a live video. teleconference he proceeds to look at me. and one of my other comrades and he's. like hey uh go ahead and put the body on. the hood on the hood of. [Music]. [Music].

what so you [ __ ] took out number. three having that natural instinct to. react and to do what needs to be done. you can't train for. that you were hand select did. again uh to come on as a [ __ ]. operator A Car Bomb was driven into one. of our vehicles on the Convoy and we did. what we were trained to.

do they were taking kids and filling. their bicycle tires with explosives and. they would have the kids ride their bike. towards the Convoy and start detonating. their [ __ ]. bicycles I got up on the top of the roof. and uh you know started engaging you. know targets and you can see the guys. are running back and. forth sure enough they're still coming. and uh you know I just engaged a single. round to each guy they were from all.

different directions um you know we cut. out murder holes in the. walls you're 19 years old and you just. got in your first engagement and shot. your first. man you're [ __ ] service right record. is. amazing I've worked with a lot of. different operators from all different. branches especially when I was at. CIA if I could go.

back and operate with somebody um that I. didn't get to before you would be. [ __ ] top of my list dude and I don't. say that [ __ ] to very many. people all right we're back from the. break we just got done with the. evacuations out of. tripley wrapping up your agency career. retired let's get into some of the stuff.

that was happening after he left or kind. of when did the wreck. happen the my motorcycle wreck yeah. well that was a um. that was a bad time so as as all this. stuff is happening in my careers and uh. covid hits and everything's shutting. down everybody's life is going to [ __ ] I.

it it I just had a hard time with that. whole thing right the the vaccination. thing and all this other stuff and all. the things that are starting to happen. in our country that are just frustrating. me and then and then I'm in a. a for the first time time in 14 years of. deploying and spending time in in the. the war zones excluding the contractor. time in the previous military time um. I'm in an office job and I am not that.

person and I. was adapting to all these changes in my. life at the time which is horrible. uh yeah it was just. uh yeah I hate I hate and so you have. well you have to do it in your career to. do headquarters Time right but I'm never. I was never a career guy so I don't care. right it's like I just want to do the. job and my job is out in the field um or.

being a manager right but doing that. from the field easily done from the. field I never got the manage from a. workstation back at headquarters thing. right sure people do that but I'm not. that kind of person I got to be on the. ground with the troops and all that kind. of stuff. so I'm adjusting to life back in a so it. it ends up ultimately being the best. thing that ever could happen to me being. back that long and just readjusting to. life back in.

regular communities without being in a. war zone. um but I'm having issues with that I'm. still Mr anger man and I'm drinking a. lot and Co hits now what else is there. to do right you can't go anywhere. everything shut down I find ways to you. know get outside and do some exercises. and stuff like that just to get fresh. air Zombie Land nobody's out on the. streets um can't go to work uh work shut.

down there's no information I mean all. this stuff I'm cooped up in an apartment. and I'm you know there's somebody. sharing the misery with me but um was. just tough so the first opportunity to. get out. uh I mean took advantage of those. moments there was maybe two or three. places in the northern Virginia area at. the time that were.

open and um because everything was for. shut down no restaurants are open no. bars are open no Walmart's open you. can't go to churches you can't go to. work you can't go to school for those. that are in school everything shut down. but you can somehow go to Walmart and. everything's okay um I had issues with. all that what was going on at the time. the the all the administration stuff. that was starting to happen I mean all. came to a head we finally had an.

opportunity to go out to a. a a a bar that was open a couple of them. that were open they started opening up. slowly some of them um outdoor seating. only that kind of stuff um. went out uh and I was already cooped up. and what what else is there to do go. outside work out and then drink. um why I felt the need to do that I have. no idea but I was drinking a lot.

and before the accident so this this. happens a couple years ago but before. that I was hitting it hard I didn't. realize that um so you think this was. because of Co that is all culminating. all the stuff that's culminating that's. part of it hold on you just did what 20. plus years in the. military at tier one. unit then you did a couple years of. regular Contracting in the Heyday of.

Iraq's the you know 04 to whenever y. then you did 16 years at. CIA and you don't think any of that [ __ ]. had anything to do with this yep yep all. that is accumulating accumulative. effects to get to this this point right. and and really that time is it all comes. together right it all comes together. uh and I didn't realize how much I was. drinking at the time.

um and those around me I don't know that. anybody ever said anything because you. know they like me they love me they're. their family they don't they don't see. those things and hey you drinking too. much are you okay nothing like that um. yeah it I was I was drinking a lot so my. ex-wife at the time later on told me how. much I was drinking in a. day and like bottles I was like and I. don't I don't remember doing that I was.

like I I most people don't I wasn't. drinking that much I was like come on I. was like let's drink every now and then. but I was drinking a. lot um then. uh yeah cooped up and and and all these. things I'm ass so I'm trying to get. restructured into civilian life in a. regular 9 to-5 job and all the years in. the war zones you know my uh probably my.

um uh my I guess my meaning right what. what that's that was what I was here to. do and I'm not doing it anymore all. these things coming together at one. point Co shuts down we get an. opportunity to go out and have a few. drinks with some folks I do that I drink. way too much and I get on my motorcycle. and I I don't remember this part but. um I get on my motorcycle and try to. ride it somewhere and I rode and I I was.

a good distance away from the bar that I. was at um I don't remember any of that. ride and the first thing I remember was. I'm on the side of the road trying to. Upright my bike because I just lay to. town uh dark Street dark corner on a. street that I had no business being on. I've have never been been down this. street before and had no reason to be. down the street it's an industrial park. um first time I'd ever been on this. street in my life there I I don't even. know why I was on that street. but 2:00 in the morning whatever time it.

is as I'm going down the street it's. dark it's not lit sharp turn 90° turn I. don't get it in time I laid the bike. down hit my head on the ground. apparently based off of just all the the. dirt I scooped up off the side of the. road but uh the skid marks and all the. stuff that that was on the pavement. um I end up getting arrested for a DUI. and when I finally realized what had.

happened I was. like Wow and then it came to me the day. after it's only they hold you until you. U you know your soap are blowing in the. machine and your soap and then they. release you um go back to the with help. from um guy that we know uh. uh we go back to the scene and see the. bike parts see the skin that's the first. time I see the after effects of. the where I went off the road and where. the bike landed up pick up a few parts. from the bike and I was like wow that's.

when I it's. like I don't even remember this and you. know and I don't even remember drinking. that much um but apparently I did so I. didn't try to deny that I wasn't. drinking that much or anything like that. and the. my thing was a huge turning point in all. the stuff that's going on in my life to. this point um it's. like I just almost killed myself I've.

gone through all this stuff in the last. you know lifetime to this. point and survived all of it and then I. get to the point and almost do this to. myself you know I me it's not like I. went out to try to do that but I just. almost killed myself um. and I didn't want that to be like the. lasting memory of me uh of all the stuff. that I've done you know and there's. other people that have done just as much. and if not more but um like for my.

family or anybody that's you know. thinking of me after the fact that's not. the way I would have liked to have their. last memory of me it's like I drank too. much and I wrecked my bike um so that. was a huge turning point for me I was. reaching out to uh some uh psychologist. just at work they gave me an initial. work up on TBI pts so minor minor things. on all that stuff there's people worse. off to me but I'm not. discounting what my issues are um. because I do have those issues the the.

tenius and the memory short-term memory. losses and uh still can't remember names. that well you know. um you know all those things uh slurge. Speech every once in a while all these. things happen and it's getting better. over time and that's the thing that the. one of the first psychologist said to me. it's like you so I have to list. everything in my life to this point what. had happened to me what and so she's. assessing you know brain. injury and uh or potential brain injury.

this could be part of the problem and. that's her thing so I had two. psychologists one was a whatever they. other one was and then there was a. specialist in brain injury and the Brain. Injury uh doc said well there's the you. haven't given yourself in between every. instance so explosives in the military. uh attacks on being on a base that's. attack loud noises mortars and Rockets. um gunfire all this stuff to this point.

combatives you. know because that's what we do right I. mean we get in the ring with each other. and Spar and hit each other and you know. and you fight each other I mean it's. it's just what we do um all that stuff I. never taken a break from each one one of. these incidents and then the bike. crash my head against the ground um so. that's how we end up with today. imbalance issues um and I didn't I. wasn't aware of it then uh I and I told.

her about this one incident I was. walking and just going down a stairway. in a restaurant and I rounded the corner. to the stairway and I just took a took a. little stutter step it's like and I felt. a little bit off balance for a second I. was like at the time I was like what was. that all about I wasn't drinking I. wasn't I was just there it was a meeting. it was a dinner meeting um and I didn't. know what that was and so I started. thinking that happened that kept. happening just little things like that. um it's like and then also why can't I. remember this particular thing right it.

was just frustrating me and I said I. asked her then I was like why is this. happening now she's like well it's. probably been happening you just weren't. aware of it happening or you wrote it. off as something else right and but now. you're noticing now cuz Rector bik can. almost killed. yourself so she said to get it get it. checked out and I did. um and so they're minor signs of you. know uh brain injury TBI um minor.

symptoms and minor so a minor case I was. like okay well that makes sense um so. the sooner the better one you got to. change your environment you know no more. combatives where you're getting Bea in. the head from somebody punching in that. um I'm not i' so I've weaned myself off. of being on a. motorcycle so far but I like motorcycle. riding so I'm going to get my bike fixed.

eventually and I kept it unfixed just so. I can remind myself what had just. happened that was kind of my way of. reminding myself what I the direction I. need to keep going so um but at this. point I think I'm okay uh to the point. where I'm going to get my bike fixed or. get a new one whatever um I got to get. it checked out um drinking a lot less so. I had one tonight right um and I can do. that now I don't I can be around it and. not have to have it or I can have a day. at work or a day at all and I don't ever.

say to myself I don't ever have have a. thought in my head like oh [ __ ] I have I. need a drink right this has been a rough. day right never say that to myself I. don't even have that thought um and. that's pretty common so in the in the. environments that I've been in it's a. thing it's it's the culture right it's. like what you do and now you can't even. go to a restaurant without it being in. your faith I didn't notice that till I. go to counseling and I'm zero alcohol.

for a long time um I got hooked on Diet. Sprite actually during that time uh and. uh I realize that then you can't go. anywhere it's on TV if you and I don't. watch. uh professional sports anymore because. they've got sideways into the woke side. of things that I'm not I don't need that. in my life you're not down with the woke. nope um so I used to think baseball.

football America right but not anymore. they've totally trashed that in my mind. um having you know all that stuff going. on in the professional sports I don't. watch it anymore I don't have a favorite. team anymore um I don't need that in my. life anymore I don't need to have aink. drink in my you know it's never a. thought in my head and I'll go sometimes. uh. uh and I I say that to myself like uh um. I'll grab a beer it's like why am I.

drinking this beer what. what I can have anything else why am I. drinking this beer right it's like well. I can have a beer damn it it's America. right Freedom. um it's like okay I don't need it if I. it's a social thing sure I'll have a. drink but to excess anymore I actually I. think I do and I'm I'm I probably sure. have some people that can attest to it. but I have a very tight control of. myself more more self-control over that. right uh no other substance abuses I've.

never had those issues and I don't like. even taking over-the-counter medicines. for pain um so that was the other thing. when I was talking about the the. Psychedelic stuff I was. like uh you know my whole aversion to. anything medication it that's my that's. still in my head yeah um plus I couldn't. I don't know if you can do that when I. was employed or anything else but um I. really haven't checked into it I've seen.

your shows on it and it. works uh you've proven that on your. shows and other shows that are that it's. being. publicized. um but it's it's just not my thing I'm. not into other any other pain overthe. counter pain med. or anything even if I get pain meds from. a prescription I try to do without it I. don't think I've ever had any pain that. I couldn't just tolerate myself and then. just ride it out um even when I had my.

uh hit my head on the ground after I. wrecked my bike but that was really a. turning turning point for me um actually. sought assistance you know and when I. started talking to folks uh so. um uh Tom sly's I keep forgetting that. name all secure found secure Foundation. um I reached out to him sent him an. email and I said uh am man I've heard. what you were saying and I was so it. wasn't time for me I guess to to like.

admitted I needed to seek Assistance or. talk to anybody about like hey I'm I'm. fine it's like it's normal and it. actually is normal with a lot of folks. that we hang out with we know so what's. it seems normal yeah so what's what's. what am I current and complaining about. right yeah um so time and place for. everybody's different and I I asked him. a few questions and he said well let me. get you in touch with one of our we can. do this for you uh free of cost some.

counseling a couple counseling sessions. with the counselor um that was great. loved it um and mostly it boiled down to. like. so not just when I crashed wrecked my. bike and I almost killed myself but. while I was drinking and times that I. don't remember stuff it's. like if somebody needed me so I'm I'm. that kind of guy too so I I want to be. there for people right I want to be. there in the moment for people well. there was times that I wasn't there for. myself I was I didn't even know where I.

was so how can I be there for anybody. else if I'm not there for myself in. those moments right so um you know that. was what sunk in with me. um for for my family for my friends for. whoever it is in my life that's. important those times I'm I wasn't there. and so kind of disappointed in myself. for those things I was like why I wasn't. even thinking about that I was just. thinking about myself at the time right. so that's kind of how. I I guess.

uh came the grips with it right I was. like well so commitment to myself to be. there to not get so shitfaced like that. anymore to that I I'm worthless to. anybody including myself and bad things. happen right um and there seems to be a. thing. um you know they they describe some of. the physiological things that are. happening with alcohol and and even a. minor case of TBI right that are.

happening when I when I drink or and all. made sense to me I like hey whatever it. is. now Roger that um yeah I don't need to. do that anymore uh sure I socialize and. have a drink with somebody but then I'm. not just chugging stuff and slamming. shots of anything and those kind of. things um because I'm still in that uh. the. culture um. go go to dinner last night I mean it's.

everywhere it's everywhere in your face. so it's not anything that ever like uh. that I see it and have to have it it's. like it's it's not like oh my God got. the shakes cuz I need a drink right um I. could see it all day long be around it. all day long there'll be you know beer. in the fridge and a a bottle of whiskey. on the counter for however long it needs. to be there right I don't ever feel the. need that it's there I need to have it. um the smell the taste all those other.

things they talk about in Counseling. doesn't do doesn't all somebody's. drinking beer I got to have one right. yeah um or you know things like that. that's doesn't affect me that way which. good for me but um it's good for what I. want to do with with it and. and where I think you know I don't need. those kind of things in my life because. I want to be there in a moment for. whoever needs me in that moment right.

and I can't do that if I'm drinking too. much um so that was a turning point for. me to just seek help seek assistance. um and Tom was pretty good about that. too he's like hey man everybody comes to. this point in their lives where they it. either something happened or it just. something that you come to grips with at. one point and. uh and and it's you it's normal it's. it's normal to have to seek some. assistance or it's normal for the damage.

to have occurred like TBI especially. with all the things that we've done in. our lives um all the loud noises the pts. or something like that depression those. kind of things uh they happen and I'm. not like anybody else I'm not above. things happening to me either um so all. the things that I did affected me the. same way they affect everybody else. eventually that they come to grips with. you know. uh. uh you know nobody wants to say that.

like they're dealing with uh depression. or you know suicidal thoughts right. there's a lot of guys that going through. that it's like so I get it it's not like. I ever thought about that but I get why. somebody would say that that like the. I've never been that Lev to that level. of like uh desperation but I understand. it now. um just by talking to guys so I've. talked to guys too uh about uh what they.

were dealing with and uh and I was like. yeah yeah it happened to me too I mean. you're not the only one I we're all end. this thing and eventually we all. realized that all the stuff that we did. as cool as it is um has affected us some. way yeah um. then then different levels of stuff and. but I I get how how uh I guess. uh there's uh and we we know people. who've done it unfortunately and uh the.

the opportunity right for all the folks. uh I do I'm doing a mission 22. fundraiser right now um I do that a lot. it's it's usually like this month in. September it was uh 48 miles in. September and it's just a fundraiser for. Mission 22 um there's always something. that they're running that I'll I'll do. it it's usually a physical activity and. then it just really awareness for this. is the thing this is a thing that guys. are dealing with.

um uh 48 in September I'm doing that I'm. I think I'm I'm pretty I think I'm done. with that matter of fact but um it's all. those things because I understand now. that even talking to you guys the. the the time from a decision to do. something like that to take your own. life or to even end it accidentally. that's a short window yeah have a short. window to come out of that or it's it's. done it's over um there has to be.

something there in that little window of. time that turns the boat. for the the folks that are in that level. of desperation and depression and. everything else even though they have. people in their lives at that point. there's nobody. there's nobody there for them in in. their minds right and I totally get it. uh I understand it. [Music]. um but whether you have somebody. literally in your life or because like.

when I wrecked my bike it's like wow. that that wouldn't have been what I. would have wanted like my daughter or my. son or my grandkids to remember me by as. a last thing how did how did he die. right it's like this this guy he's done. everything in the world how did he die. ah he drank to much I wrecked his bike. you know it's. like that was that really still gets to. me like oh my God I can't do that I. can't do that to everybody it's like.

that that just I can't do that it's just. too much it's [ __ ] crazy you know. I've I've had incidents like that. several of them and it's like looking. back you're just like man all this [ __ ]. that I've done and that's that's how it. would have [ __ ] ended. y 2:00 in the morning drunk on a [ __ ]. bike you know like damn that's all that. that's how it ends and uh yeah that.

that woke me up too yep yep it's and. unfortunate for me and unfortunate that. it happened but fortunately for me I was. able to even get that message out of. that whole thing you know almost killed. myself I have another opportunity to you. know get my [ __ ] together and. uh in my mind not let everybody down. that way yeah you know um there are some. people who you. know uh you know life goes on I get it.

and and everybody would be fine but uh. that's not what it's not what I wanted. to leave as a you know as a memory a. legacy like yeah he did this that the. other thing this other thing and yeah. he's done all this other cool stuff and. then drink to much kill himself yeah. dumbass happens to a lot of us you know. it does it really does. yeah but man so what do you got coming. up what do I got coming up well.

hopefully this this deal with Glock. assigned a deal with Glock and I'm going. to go to work for Glock as an. instructor um so I'm all about right now. I. have done some things and I know some. things so I just want to convey that to. you know the the general population or. the law enforcement or the military or. anybody who needs to know that stuff. tactics carrying guns not carrying guns. uh planning life things uh whatever it. is right um there's more people I think.

that. can take away from some experiences like. uh Pete blabber's book he describes a. military action his decision and stuff. and then he talks about how that applies. to corporate americ America right which. other people can understand you know in. that context um I'm kind of in the same. kind of mindset that just because it. happened to me in a particular military. the agency or a contractor there's some.

things there that can be translated into. civilian life for other folks to learn. from um given their own situation and. their own. environments uh how do they come to the. conclusion of this given my situation. well. then if this is your other situation um. you know adversity is different for. everybody uh timelines deadlines people. have at work. um okay uh not a big deal to me because.

I've dealt with worse but that's their. adversity that's what they're that keeps. them up at night yeah um so how do you. deal with that um how do you manage your. time around that how much effort do you. put into that before you get consumed by. it you know all those kind of things. um but really I like shooting I like. tactics uh I think I have. some fairly current fresh um you know.

skills to pass on to folks I would. definitely say that and uh yeah I enjoy. teaching I do teaching coaching. mentoring uh. training um all that kind of stuff for. anybody who wants to know it um. I I I totally want to do open enrollment. classes for stuff for all the civilians. out there who want to just know how to. handle be more comfortable with a gun if. they bought a gun then be responsible.

and learn how to use it yeah um so just. give them some tools to use to keep. going to the range themselves and to get. better at being comfortable with their. gun uh there's a lot of people that. aren't buy guns and aren't comfortable. carrying them because they're still not. comfortable carrying them but um I've. have actually have some people that I've. had um dealt with training firearms and. they were not carrying them with them. because they didn't feel comfortable. with them but now they're carrying them. every day they feel comfortable using it.

they feel comfortable drawing it from. wherever there is they're carrying it on. body off body. um and that that for me that's huge it's. like well good yeah now you have a gun. for a reason and now you actually know. how to use it um um diff I mean there's. so many things that tactics wise I mean. tactics are tactics I mean it's not. rocket surgery right yeah but there are. some ways to be more efficient at doing. things that's all I would you know be.

interested to say or convey to others. that are doing the same type of work. um regardless of what it is uh military. tactics CQB stuff shooting a gun um you. know all those kind of things Common. Sense approach to all these things like. don't make it difficult you know that's. that's a lot I do see that a lot in some. of the training that's going. on is in trying to make it unique to. themselves they they provide something.

unique that nobody else provides they. make it more difficult and they add too. many steps or they make just make it. sound more difficult than what is. because it's coming from them right uh. but that's my whole opposite concept. about training you know don't make it. difficult don't make it any harder than. what it is it's pretty easy right that's. refreshing shooting a gun right keep the. sights on the target don't move the. sights press the trigger right and then. keep the sights steady it can be [ __ ].

fun it can be and it is you are allowed. to have fun yeah and in the classes that. I've taught so. far that's the last thing I say right is. have fun like okay there's got to be. safe. downrange is that way and keep your. muzzle pointed that way muzzle awareness. and learn something today open yourself. to learn something today and have fun. doing it and. uh you know it's it's uh you know it's.

the Mystique thing too you're like oh my. God you know we're gonna have to do some. crazy stuff you know this is super. secret Commando teaching me how to shoot. a gun we're going to do some crazy stuff. like no it's not difficult yeah I'll. teach you how to shoot like a Commando. guess what it's the same way everybody. else shs. together they just do more of it so. they're good at it. yeah well man I just I just want to say. again it was a real honor to be able to. interview you and uh I wish you the best.

of luck and for anybody that's wanting. to jump into your training you are. certainly. a. wealth of knowledge for anybody looking. to learn anything in that sector and and. uh and I know you're just going to do. phenomenal well yeah thank you and thank. you for having me and I was describing. how nervous I was going to be doing this. cuz I'm not used to doing this kind of. you know was it as bad as you thought it.

was going to be all and worse yes no it. was no it was good and but you know how. many people have been in the seat this. is an incredible experience literally uh. I've known you from working with you and. and all the other stuff but uh honestly. this this is this is a great uh a. program you've put together all the. stuff that you uh all the information. that you have from infrastructure stuff. to you know preparedness to uh stories. about you know Common stories where guys. can you know go to school from.

um it's it's a it's a great program um. and to see what you've done you know. over the years with this it's it's great. and I'm just glad to be here man thank. you for saying that I really appreciate. that but uh let's go get some dinner. let's do it cheers thanks.

[Music]. brother hey everybody I'm Shawn Ryan. click here to subscribe to the Sha Ryan. Show YouTube channel for the hottest and. most compelling interviews that you will. not see anywh where else I've also made. a playlist of all the previous SRS. episodes so they're easy to find you can. find that right here.