Ben Owen - Inside the Life of an Addict | SRS #178

I know my team's getting ready to go. down there and do that with you yeah I'm. going to take them to 1428 wber Street. the house that used to be full of bullet. holes there's a woman and her three. children living in that house that just. celebrated Christmas the women that used. to sell dope out of that house I've got. them housed in another old trap house. around the corner so I was nearing rock. bottom and stole a bunch of dop and C do. you remember that yeah and I want to KY. you did they you know when the doctors.

told me that I was dying and I was. really relieved cuz I was sick of living. like that you know I was really couldn't. be more stoked about it I mean I didn't. want to die junkie but that's kind of. where life had brought me this is where. we house the females who were selling. their body those who would not submit. they got dealt with harshly very harshly. I started using when I was 12 years old. and like just started getting worse. after that constantly in and out of jail. getting beat on domestic violence St.

[Music].

Ben Owen Sean Ryan welcome to the show. man thank you sir I've been really. looking forward to this one I have too. it's uh it's an absolute honor to be. here thank you thank you well it's an. honor to have you and uh I love your hat. thank you 44 is my number is it oh yeah. so explain that to me I've heard 444 is. an angel number I I don't know why it is. so long story.

but about I think it's been about two. years now uh had basically had God like. slap me in the face in uh in Sedona and. um I won't get into it cuz we'll be here. all day but. um like no [ __ ] he just like showed up. three times back to back to back in my. life and uh and then I came home and um. I was telling I had called this guy.

Eddie Penny uh who's a friend of mine we. work together in the SEAL Teams very. early on and um and then we reconnected. through the show and when he came. on it's like my the whole dynamic of my. show kind of changed he his his journey. to Faith and how he found Christ was. just like astounding and uh and sent. waves like throughout the the the the. listenership of the show and and after.

he came on it was like every person that. came on the show talked. about Jesus or their belief in Christ or. you know what I mean something like that. every single one for the longest time I. think it was over a year and uh you know. I started putting it together and I was. like man and I released Eddie's episode. on Christmas and then I had my own. experience in Sedona.

where um I done psychedelics to to you. know get over some stuff we can get into. that later but but uh it kind of. like it didn't psychedelics didn't like. reignite my uh my belief in Christ or. anything like that but it made me. realize there's something more out there. and so I was searching all kinds of. stuff looking at [ __ ] crystals and. you name it man I was like I was like. trying to figure it out.

and um and then Sedona. happened like long story short this guy. read my mind from front to back that. read my mind every thought in my head he. articulated right to my face had never. seen him before nothing and then two. more things happened right after that. and came home called Eddie to tell him. about it. and he was talking about guardian angels. and and all this other stuff and then I.

called um this it guy that used to work. for me also a good friend and kind of. a spiritual type Mentor uh you know in. my new journey and those two had talked. about the exact same thing back to back. they don't know each other also about. guardian angels I thought we were. talking about email blasts when I called. his name was Adam is his name is Adam. and um. and uh came home from lunch after that.

this was like a super powerful. experience for me this whole like. timeline from Sedona and I called Eddie. because I wanted because I wanted to. talk to him about what had happened and. he he's also a mentor of mine with this. stuff got back in my truck to go to. work looked at the clock 4:44 looked at. the you know miles left to empty. 444 4 hours and 44 minutes after I had.

the conversation with Adam cuz that that. call was scheduled at noon got to the. studio got with my head of social media. I was like hey what does 444 mean this. just happened to me we looked it up it. said your guardian angel wants you to. know that uh he's watching over you and. like I said the conversation for hours. and 44 minutes before that was about. that awesome your guardian angel knows. that you're uh knew you before you were.

ever even born and and all this other. stuff and so then I started like seeing. that number. everywhere like everywhere oh yeah 444. comments 444 likes 4:44 on the clock it. it was just it was just. everywhere and now like I've really. through my journey are you Christian. absolutely through my Journey um and my.

whole team's like really wrapped up in. this every like way better versed in. this than than I am and you know some of. the guys you meant downstairs like. Darren I mean he knows he grew up as a. Jehovah's Witness escaped all of that. but um knows the Bible like the back of. his hand so he's been a a mentor of mine. um my old head of production Elijah grub.

Baptist so all these guys like who I. never really I can't say I didn't pay. attention to them but not in that aspect. have like really. like helped answer a lot of questions. that I have and any anytime I read. something out of the Bible they're. always there to help me and um and. through my journey I've I've. really I've really leaned into gut. instinct and uh I think that's where. that's the spirit yeah yes yeah I'm I'm.

convinced of that you cannot change that. inct is the spirit so now when I'm. making tough decisions or I want to know. if I'm doing the right thing with the. show or what whatever it is man A lot of. it has to do with the show like you know. we get we get some pretty crazy. interviews and like for example the last. one was um the last one that really kind. of threw me off and I was like am I like. should be doing this um I went to.

Romania and interviewed uh Colleen. georgescu about some corruption that's. going on there and I was like man I. don't know like am I doing the right. thing here my gut tells me yes but then. you get in your head and like I'll start. seeing the numbers man they'll just. start popping up everywhere right in. front of me and I I don't think I know. for me when I see that number or. sequence you know 222 444 777 whatever.

it is um I know that that's like yes. Sean yep your gut's right God Winks I'm. giving you I'm giving you the the. confirmation that you need to press. forward with this and even then man I. remember I did on the way to Romania we. had a layover I think in New. York and um and we had just released. another SU super controversial interview.

with Sam shoe made and everybody's. calling me like oh you're a CIA asset oh. the comments on that were hilarious dude. and uh but I was like man I really like. that email was real we got the email we. checked and anyways and it turned out. FBI came out and and. said yeah the email they said on the. podcast uh not not the Shawn Ryan show. but the email that's going around that.

was on the podcast was legitimate and um. that came out right uh right before that. layover and so I tweeted out on uh X the. truth is like a lion set it free and. it'll defend. itself right after I sent that tweet. this woman walks around the corner and. she's got this huge lion. head like this like this. uh sparkly lion head on her shirt and I.

was just. like you can't like there it is man like. you're on Sean just lean into your gut. you're on the right path quit with the. [ __ ] noise outside get out of your. head like just lean into the gut. instinct and and so anyways now you come. in here and you got to had ATF. 444 so I know this is going to be a. really good interview and now sure hope. so very powerful and I know it's going.

to change a lot of lives so once again. here it is but what is the ATF 444 to. you so the ATF triple4 was a GC PSU. Afghan special police unit and we. evacuated we tried to evacuate some of. them and failed but we did get his. brother to America and he gave me the. patch when we resettled him in Houston. man that's awesome yeah so they were. like the tier one trained version of. cops in Afghan do you have any more of.

those patches the triple four yeah I. don't I don't we've been looking for. some cuz I've lost this hat two or three. times now and flipped out about it and. you found it found it yeah uh but I need. to find some backup patches so if I find. one I got you well I'll tell you what I. don't know if you looked around in here. but it's like a museum and a lot of. guests I'm dumbfounded honestly uh like. I thought I had a collection of some. pretty cool [ __ ] it's all stuff from. guests this is amazing so uh you know if.

you ever do decide to part from. that I'd be honored to frame that in the. studio and um yeah this is like a museum. but I'm not asking so and and hey what. is the we got busy down there with the. photos what's that A10 Barrel you so you. know I've got a nonprofit called we. fight monsters and uh a guy that we did. a lot of stuff in the Afghan Evac with. General David Hicks he's got something. like 3600 hours in an A10 and he gave me.

that Barrel it's if I remember correctly. from his Kandahar deployment it's shot. out which I think that was the most. violent deployment he had so it's it's. it's ended some lives wow yeah wow so. that is one of I think seven they got. seven barrels right the G8 I don't know. I'm not it's from the big all Cannon so. when you call in Cass that's what is. shooting you'll have to connect me with. him I will do that I'll interview him. you need to and then that's going to get.

framed and put over the uh put in the. new studio we're building a new studio. so oh yeah we brought you humidor too we. made it seriously yeah so we've it's. down there in the box next to that. Barrel we opened up a wood shop in. Memphis to teach homeless fets. Woodworking and gang members and anybody. else coming off the streets and so they. made you a humidor uh out of black. walnut and curly Maple that was grown or. felled and mill in Memphis man thank you. it's pretty cool that'll look good in. there too yes sir it will. but um well Ben we got a lot to talk.

about today and I'm expecting this I. shouldn't say I'm expecting but I got a. feeling that this is going to be a very. heavy heartfelt interview and uh I'm. really excited to dive in here so I am. too everybody starts with a. introduction. so Ben Owen you're an infantry veteran a. father of eight children a graduate of.

the University of Alabama and an. American Patriot from Fortune 500. companies to startups you've excelled in. leadership strategy raising brand. awareness and sales when you're not. working your day job at Black Rifle CO. not coffee you spend time in the North. Georgia Mountains with your kids you're. an experienced expert on data. intelligence and digital media you. founded Flanders Fields and we fight. monsters with your wife Jess and our. dedicated to combating opiate and.

Fentanyl addiction and sex trafficking. in the Midsouth your recovering addict. with with a tulous p including drug. arrests and homelessness you've. transformed your struggles into a Force. for good by leveraging experiences from. running safe houses during the. Afghanistan evacuation to establishing. Sober Living homes in the US by. converting dope houses into recovery. spaces you work alongside agency and. street gangs to embody hope and Recovery.

turning your once perilous path into. lifelines for others you're a busy man. you're doing heavy lifting in some of. the most tough neighborhoods in America. and uh once again man it really is truly. an honor to have you here I'm really. excited about this it's been a long time. coming and um so let's get started let's. do it but before we get two in the weeds. couple.

things here's my gift to. you vigilance Elite gummy bears made. here in the USA they are not healthy. there's all kinds of poison and food. dyes and sugar and all kinds of [ __ ] you. shouldn't be eating but they do taste. good oh they're delicious oh my. God we'll send you we'll send you some. more when we get. restocked and then. secondly we have a patreon account. patreon there are top supporters it's a.

it's a subscription account that that um. our viewers and listeners can join and. uh We've really built quite the. community there and so a lot of these. guys and ladies have been with me since. the very beginning and uh like we. started this in the Attic moved to this. now we're building a studio that's three. and a half times bigger than this. congratulations out in the woods and um. like with all the equipment upgrades and. everything that we've been able to do I.

credit patreon cuz that's that's who has. been here the whole time and so one of. the things I do is I allow them to uh I. give them the opportunity to ask each. and every guest a question and so this. is from Eric. alar it's seeming more and more like. we're about to hit an inflation cycle. like we saw in the 70s president rean. once said that inflation is as violent. as a Mugger as frightening as an armed. robber in his as deadly as a Hitman and.

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we need your voice in this fight join. AAC today as a member of the association. of mature American citizens you'll get a. hard-hitting magazine that tells it like. it is trusted news that cuts through the. noise and money saving discounts that. actually matter all for just $16 a year. so stand up get informed save money and. let's send send a loud clear message to.

Congress keep your hands off of our. wallets head over to. amac.us SRS that's. amac.us SRS Let's help protect what's. ours paid for by the Association of. mature American. citizens Ben your transition from army. veteran to founder of we fight monsters. is both inspiring and profound many. veterans struggle to find purpose after.

service but you've channeled your. Warrior Spirit into fighting one of. society's darkest battles human and. narcotics trafficking can you take us. back to the moment when you knew this. was your mission what was the turning. point that made you and Jessica commit. your lives to transform former drug. houses into recovery homes and safe. havens so I think there were really two. pivotal moments and one of them actually. goes back back into active addiction and.

we'll get into this much deeper later. but my last 6 months out there I did not. want that life I had been tired of it. and I had two options I was going to get. sober I was going to die and I didn't. want to die and just I used to pray a. foxhole prayer multiple times a day H. and it went something along the lines of. God get us out of hell together and. we'll come back for everybody left. behind so in 2019 he did get us out of. hell together eventually I I left first.

but uh later that year we were a few. months sober at the time and my best. friend over oon. died and um we hadn't yet been called. back to Memphis to keep our end of that. promise but we did go back to Memphis to. bury him he had no family left so we. raised money uh using my social media. presence uh to cremate him and have a. service and we gave the overage because. we raised like four times what it. actually cost we gave the overage to the. Shelby County drug court and.

um something happened in our brains at. that point in time we realized that you. know we we can use social media to get. some cool stuff done and it felt really. good to uh to be able to help people. that are still out there struggling with. the the demon that we had escaped um and. then of course as that progressed we we. did get called back to Memphis to save. the ones we left behind and uh once we. started that dude he mentioned purpose. in the very beginning of that and that. that's what it comes down to um is I.

found my purpose I found my calling I. found the Reason God put me on this. Earth and I have absolutely no doubt. whatsoever that what we're doing today. is what God wants me to do for the rest. of my life and so I hope that answers. the question yeah yeah wow. wow thank. you all right so now we get into the. weeds here so I want to do a life story. on you talk about childhood all the way. up to what you're doing nowadays all the.

pitfalls and the dark times I mean. that's kind of uh that's my specialty. here you know and um and uh. so where did you grow. up man that's uh it's not really an easy. answer to that I've lived in 14 States. um I lived in three states in first. grade alone I lived in three states. again in ninth grade so I was born uh. not far from here actually in Nashville. my D station to Fort Campbell he was um.

I think a first lieutenant uh first 506. back then um and I was a real high-risk. pregnancy so and mom went to labor they. rushed her down to Nashville I was born. here um but we left before I was even 3. months old. um I think Virginia. next uh and. then Fort Benning my little brother was. born there and we lived. I think in Phoenix City Alabama just.

across the the chattah huchi from Fort. Benning or we may have lived in Columbus. um and then Dad left the Army not too. long after my little brother was born. went to fizer. Pharmaceuticals uh as a sales. rep back in like hold on yep we're. moving too fast how many brothers and. sisters did you have just one just one. one are you guys. close we're not not close. um but you know Cody has an awful lot of.

very well-founded resentment towards me. for everything I did over the years um. demanding all of my parents' attention. because I was such a pain in the ass and. uh I think I probably in a lot of ways. crushed his hopes and dreams for his. life um now he does a great job of. hiding that resentment but it's still. there you know so yeah me and my brother. are close I love him he's my little. brother but even though he you know 20. minutes up street from me we don't we.

don't see each other like every day or. anything like that man it's a lot better. now that I'm clean you know the the. longer I've been clean the more he. believes this time is real how long have. you been clean uh a little over 5 years. um I've been off the streets for we're. closing on six years now I had a couple. alcohol relapses that first year uh so. my actual server dates October 4th of. 2019 no kidding yeah not a drop alcohol. no dope nothing.

wow I kick booze it'll be 3 years. and this Valentine's Day [ __ ] hell yeah. man that's awesome I didn't know that. about you thank you yeah I've kicked. I've kicked a lot of addictions too. cocaine. benzos opiates I had no idea yeah yeah. so you get it oh yeah I get it and then. booze was the last Bo was the last. looking the the relapse that. ended with the rest of my story I.

actually started with. dmore no I was a big Scotch fan that was. just an alcoholic for a long time until. the dope entered the. picture yeah me too then I moved to. Columbia and that's when the. [ __ ] God I'd be dead oh I almost did die. couple times yeah yeah me too but U. cocaine was. involved so I'm Cur I get lot of flack. about having a bar in here cuz we talk.

we talk a lot about sobriety you know if. you watched any of the interviews you. see that you know a lot of the guys that. I bring on struggle with that yep and. then kicked it and you know but does. that bother you not in the least dude. yeah I mean and never has really uh you. you're exposed to alcohol everywhere you. go that's the way I feel it's everywhere. and if you can't be comfortable sitting. this close to your favorite single M. scotch in the world you get a problem.

yeah you know I feel like it's. empowering I do too have it sitting. right there completely and be able to. overcome it and man I know this. interview isn't about me but I got. there's just some things I want to share. cuz I think that I'll relate to you a. lot when I kicked. cocaine I kept my last dime bag for. years just that's next level to. overpower it I kept it in a drawer and I.

even I mean I even moved here with it. like I kicked it I kicked cocaine in. Florida finally and uh I had I had a. bunch of bags and but I I kept one of. them and uh like I. just it was just. like I would look at it every day for. years like wake up hold it look at that. dime bag of coke and it just like for me.

it was like I'm going to [ __ ] beat. you today. again. and when we moved I brought it up here. with me and then I eventually like you. know what I wanted to do was I wanted to. frame it and I'm serious I wanted to. frame it and put it in the studio I get. that um to show like there it is that's. the last that [ __ ] yep I I I. guess I actually can relate to that more. than I thought I could when you first.

said it because I used to do that with. Heroin um when I was trying to quit I. would I would keep a little bit knowing. it's there it's there if this if the. withdrawals get to be too much if today. gets to be too much it's there I can do. it the problem of course was that I. always did it you know um so I do get. that yeah well back to Childhood what. kind of stuff were you into was a kid. dude I had like the most idyllic. childhood ever uh from my perspective. and outside looking in um I did Boy.

Scouts you know I tried to play sports. to impress my dad but I sucked at all of. them um I was I was really good at at. being an outdoors kid you know Hunting. Fishing uh land nav or orientering as we. call it and Scouts I did Scouts my dad. was our scout master um until we moved. to California and Scouts got weird out. there so we stopped but uh I was almost. Eagle whatever was it star or life right. Bel Eagle Scout um I loved anything and. everything outdoors. uh I loved you know going on bike rides.

mountain biking catching animals that. was like my obsession for a long time. was was reptiles venomous snakes you. know alligators literally catching. alligators like are you serious oh hell. yeah how old were you when you were. catching alligators I think the last one. I caught I was 18 or 19 when did it. start how young uh probably 11 or. 12 these were big alligators I they're. little you know we uh we lived in uh.

Jackson Mississippi for seven years that. was the longest stretch in childhood I. ever lived one place was ranking County. Mississippi outside of Jackson on this. big Lake man-made lake called the Ross. Barnett Reservoir and it was full of. alligators and water moccasins and like. it was the greatest place ever for a. little boy to live you know and so we. moved there when I was seven how would. you catch them nut I'd use a net and. babies you know like I wasn't doing a. crocodile hunter jump on the tow have a. mom come after you oh yeah oh yeah but.

the funny thing is my mom would go a bat. for me with the neighborhood moms cuz I. was I mean an alligator oh no so one. time I did almost get eaten by a big old. female um they'll build these mounds of. like uh I say almost got eaten. alligators aren't really that aggressive. but it scared the [ __ ] out of me they'll. build a big old mound of vegetation and. they use that to incubate their eggs I. guess well we found one and we were. stomping through it trying to find. babies you know and the whole thing. starts vibrating like what the hell is.

going on and out shoots this 10 11t long. full grown alligator uh it was I guess. it buried itself in this mound we. thought it was a nest it was not a nest. it was there was an actual giant. alligator in the middle of it and we. fell over weing the swamp and yeah I. thought I was going to die holy [ __ ] I. don't know if I ever tell my mom that. story I remember my buddy Bo Goodson was. with me when it happened and we thought. we were. dead thought we were dead all bet what. so were you were you tight with your. brother back then uh we were very.

different uh as kids you know Cody. wanted to be an actor he wanted to play. basketball he was actually decent at. Sports and I was just want to play. outside so yeah we hung out all the time. I mean we fought like big brothers and. little brothers do but nobody else is. going to [ __ ] with my little brother you. know I always stood up for him so yeah. we we were close growing up um until we. moved to California that's when things. went sideways how old were you when he. went to California I moved there when I. was 14 and so I was in Jackson. Mississippi from age 7 to 14 and I mean.

I'd already lived in I don't even know. how many states prior to that so I had. no stability I was constantly moving. constantly being the new kid constantly. Reinventing myself you know learning how. to make new friends and and so I I got. real used to that and and I was actually. pretty good at it um and still am. um but uh that sevene stretch of being. in one place like I I built a life and. you that was half my life at that point. I had spent there and so when we moved.

from Jackson to Orange County California. um yeah I snapped I just lost it um I've. always. been uh an anxious person um especially. today uh like more so than than usual I. am who I am today I'm a very anxious. stressed out person back then I think is. when it really came to A A head um I had. discovered that girls are animals too.

and so my obsession switched from. Catching reptiles to females and I had a. girlfriend that I'd been allowed to. spend way too much time with uh for a. 14-year-old like I don't know how I. convinced my parents to let me do this. lost my virginity and everything and um. when we moved I just like that was the. end of the world to me uh you know. nothing was ever going to be the same. again it was all the you know listening. to Smashing Pumpkins and 9in nails and. the world's going to [ __ ] end cuz I. lost my girlfriend and she's in.

Mississippi and I'm in California and I. just I went nuts dude I went completely. nuts how so you name it like I went. from I was a straight A student my. entire life until I moved to California. uh not just straight A student I mean I. was like an absolute nerd um I uh was. writing letters back and forth to the. president of Harvard from like 10 years. old on Ford I wanted to be a. cardiovascular surgeon. uh I had led a clinical study at the.

University of Mississippi at 13 years. old that ended up getting published in. the journal neurology like I was an. absolute nerd all right goody two shoes. never got in trouble didn't give my. parents any problems whatsoever within a. month of moving to California I'm still. an alcohol getting drunk tried meth. tried Coke shrooms um at 14 14 yeah yeah. I actually spent my 15th birthday locked. up against my will in California and. that's I mean that's when things really. started going down hell so you know they.

they caught me with weed I don't. remember how it actually happened. but and I never liked. weed but it was just my way of acting. out I would have it you know and I got. caught and so they flipped out like it. was you know hairo one that I was on my. parents are. very what's the word I'm looking for um. strict very strict straight and narrow. kind of people you know like never done. drugs none of that and so they flipped.

the absolute hell out and and sent me to. rehab for weed when I'm 14 years old. well I get in. there and uh and I they make me talk to. like. iatrist um and I realized like I can. just get dope in here because I wanted. to change the way I felt that's that was. the Crux of everything I did not like. the way I felt and I wanted to do. anything I could to change it I've been. drinking extremely heavily I've been. caught stealing. alcohol um I was taking open containers.

of alcohol to school to high school. ninth grade with me and the teachers. there wouldn't do [ __ ] they're afraid of. the students like it was the students. literally R in that school. um so I started talking to the. psychiatrist to this rehab place and. remember I was a nerd I'd read the DSM. it was the DSM 4 back then front to back. I don't even know how many times what's. that that's that's the I think it stands. for Diagnostics and statistics manual it. tells doctors how to diagnose diseases. including mental health um or.

particularly mental health you read that. at what age I think the first time I. heard it I was 12 like whenever the DSM. 4 came out I was reading it because I. wanted to impress my dad my whole life. was spent trying to become my dad or to. please him or make him happy and this is. not any fault of his like he was not an. overbearing father I had perfect parents. growing up this was just i' internalized. in my mind that my life only had. validity if my dad was proud of me which. he always was but so I I started reading. the DSM 4 cuz he was selling to doctors.

as a I think he was a regional manager. with fiser by this point in time and he. had a tremendous level of respect for. docs and so I wanted to become a doctor. and so I'd read this thing front to back. memorized the whole damn thing um I'm to. caveat this I've killed a lot of brain. cells since then okay so like I'm not. that smart anymore but I used to be I. had near photographic memory so anyway I. I go to the uh remember I told you I got. weaponized ADHD I go and that's that. that is. real I uh go to the psychiatrist and I'm.

I present myself as a textbook case of. somebody's bipolar disorder I'm not. bipolar but they went ahead and. diagnosed me they did diagnose the ADHD. which is real and they put me on. Ridin and since I had read this manual. and knew the things to say I went back. and kept going back to the stock at the. rehab facility while in a drug rehab I. have gotten a doctor to prescribe me 120. milligrams of methylin to day Ridin. which is like super therapeutic uh like.

Way Beyond what any kid should ever be. on needless to say that created a lot of. anxiety and paranoia and other symptoms. and so now they're treating me for those. symptoms so they've got me on Xanax. valum um I didn't even realize it back. then but I'm dependent on all of this. [ __ ]. um and life at home had become pure hell. because you know I'm trying to get out. of this rehab and every time they let me. go home I do something crazy like drink. a bottle of rubbing alcohol and wake up.

in an ER with a catheter in then don't. remember [ __ ] like I I don't any of it. happened um and so when I said my little. brother has a lot of resentment it's. like that's that's why this started and. I'm taking all of my parents attention. from him and it was his dream come true. to move to Southern California because. he wanted to be an actor so he's in. acting classes my parents are having to. go pick me up out of gutters or have the. police pick me up because I've run from. the rehab facility like it was just uh. and it came out of nowhere my poor. parents you know just literally.

overnight this. happened how would you get the booze. steal it you steal give a [ __ ] I and and. that's like the craziest part about this. is I'm not a thief even during my. addiction I was making the money I was. blowing on dope but at 145 I just did. not care I did not I wanted to get in. trouble I wanted somebody to catch me. man we got a lot of parallels already I. same same here I I didn't go to rehab. and I didn't get into drugs but I got.

into alcohol I think seventh or eighth. grade yeah same here that moved around. all over the place the longest time I've. ever spent somewhere seven years oh wow. so yeah you you get all until now until. now how long you been here 7 years okay. but um yeah we used to I used to find. bums and uh pick them. up go buy the booze for me I've done. that yeah yeah real smart as a kid. without a driver's license but.

um wow you you had. mentioned want to retrace a couple. things here You' mentioned Boy Scouts. got weird in California yeah what was. weird. so my dad was always our scout master. growing up and so we moved to California. he got us back in Scouts and I've been. like through you know little bitty tiger. cub all the way up you know did the. whole thing dad's an eagle scout ordered. the arrow Ranger qualified you know. superh guy and uh so he puts us right.

back in Scout so we get out there and we. have our our first uh camp. out and when we get to this place where. we're camping they round all of us up. and this is this was like right before I. went nuts so I haven't gone nuts yet I'm. still doing the anxiety and mental. health stuff but I haven't started doing. the drinking and all that but that was. like two weeks later we get to the first. camp out and then they ran everybody up. and the the scout master cuz Dad's the. assistant cuz he's a new guy says. something the effective and remember. campers no Scout Masters in tents with.

boys and no sharing sleeping bags this. time and my dad looked at me and my. brother was like get in the [ __ ] car. we're going know that was the end of. that like holy [ __ ] yeah it was it was. it was a very odd very odd but you. didn't have any nothing happened to you. oh God no no he got us the hell out of. there we never went back right on never. went back yeah I was also diagnosed ADHD. Ridin ader all in fourth grade damn yeah. fourth grade man that Ridin [ __ ] me up. I really think it did like permanent.

damage to that's where the anxiety. started really bad for me was with the. riddin of course I it's my own fault I. manipulated a doctor into giving me like. three times what anybody my size should. have been on but I have a repeating. pattern of doing that manipulating. circumstances and end up [ __ ] myself. in the end. yeah let's so it sounds like you were. like a like a prodig. I was my parents I think honestly.

believed I was going to go into to cure. cancer AIDS someday you know um and like. that that clinical trial that I led the. methods we came up with and that are. being used to this day to diagnose. things like Parkinson's and stuff are. you serious and you you did this at 13. 13 14 you know with a neurologist at a. University of Mississippi I took first. place in the Mississippi State science. fair that year how did you get let's go. through that how did you get in touch. with a doc at har my dad oh at Harvard I. just wrote him a letter dude I wrote the.

president of Harvard a letter when I was. 10 and said I wanted to be a. cardiovascular surgeon he wrote me back. and was like that's awesome it's too. early to decide what kind you want to be. but keep writing me and let's stay in. touch you know so I had an open line of. coms with the president of Harvard at 10. I I did the Duke uh tip thing where you. take the SAT in e8th grade and scored. like a 1380 or 1400 or something I was I. was I was a very smart kid wow and I've. definitely spit God's face with the. amount of brain cells I I killed but it.

is what it is you know um but yeah so my. parents like I I feel horrendous for. them to this day if I try to put myself. in their shoes now as a parent and I. have kids that age I have kids much. older than that. already I don't know how my dad kept his. job I really don't I don't know how he. stayed sane because on top of that he's. dealing with my mom's physical health. she's got a slew of autmun problems like. I was is just a really selfish little. bastard man I I I don't understand.

how I don't understand how they kept me. like if I'd have been investigating ways. to give up custody of this kid to the. state somehow you know looking back on. what I put them through because it. really did come out of nowhere there was. no leadup to this it was just bam Ben's. insane damn so I meant this rehab place. in California and and I have hold on. hold on let's go back okay I want to. talk about the medical the the the the. paper that you wrote oh yeah.

so we had this uh I was. reading I don't remember one of my dad's. medical journals U like Jammer or. whatever it was and read up on this uh. phenomenon called the subcutaneous. silent period now I remember I've killed. a lot of brain cells and this is 30. years ago so I don't remember all of it. but basically it is a a silent period in. in your synapse in your nerve conduction. when you touch a painful stimuli your. nerves actually go blank for a second to.

your the signals to your muscle telling. your muscles to contract and what that. is it's a before your brain can even. process I'm in pain your your nerves. have told your hand to let go so if. you've ever reacted to something quicker. then your brain can actually process. what's happening that's basically why it. happens well I theorize that if this is. true that in in instances of diseases. like amyotroph lateral sclerosis or. Parkinson's or maybe Alzheimer's.

anything that affects cognitive function. or nerves there might be a delay in that. and well we found out that was true that. there was a delay and so that that was. it's been tons of research have been. done since on this like it's a whole. field and I doubt I'm the first person. that thought of it but I definitely did. my own study and it definitely made it. into the journal neurology my dad. connected me with this neurologist um I. forget what drugs dab was selling for. advisor at the time but he knew the. neurologist University of Mississippi.

and this is back before the Pharma Act. passed I think which means Pharma. actives because drug companies were. essentially paying doctors to write. their drugs you know and so this is back. when you could still give docs tons of. money and so he I'm sure there was some. Grant involved he's like help my kid do. this idea so he got me access to all. these machines Electro and cographs and. stimulus and I don't even know what. they're all called I got to shock my mom. like she was one of my test subjects. uh I had a couple of the the neuro. interns up there that were my test.

subjects I mean it was it was really. cool like I I had a great life ahead of. me and just for no reason at all decided. to piss it away. damn I mean what what what was your. parents reaction when you get published. at 13 uh so it didn't actually get. published until I. was 14 maybe 15 and I was uh I was in. custody in Utah when that happened are. you serious that's how quick it happened.

how'd you find out that it got I think. they sent it to me I was I was they sent. me so there's a Netflix special out. right now about these facilities in Utah. like that's how bad they were you know. these uh Wilderness camps and Provo. Mountain I think Paris Hilton went to. one of them um of course we didn't know. back then how bad they were what do you. mean oh they like beat the hell out of. kids the one I was at got shut down for. breaking some kids's arm um there were. like sexual assaults that happened at. some of them what happened to you uh so.

actually at that one the one in Utah. nothing the one in California that's not. quite true um I kept running away I. don't want to be there I'd run away I'd. go steal some alcohol and eventually the. cops would find me or sometimes one time. my mom found me passed out in the middle. of an intersection very busy. intersection and ran son. Margarita eventually um they got tired. of me running and kind of upped their. game keeping me inside and uh memor is a.

little fuzzy on this but somehow I ended. up barricaded in the room with three. female clients and they got real pissed. about that and when they got in the room. they got me out. um and put me in a five-point restraint. room like 14 years old and three grown. ass men beat the [ __ ] out of me I mean. beat the ever loving hell out of me um. and at the time I felt like I deserved. it you know what they beat you with just. Open Hands slapping the [ __ ] out of me I.

don't I don't remember any like objects. or fists but I mean they beat [ __ ] I. mean I'm I'm restrained I'm in a. fivepoint restraint you know I can't. even lift my head. um so that sucked uh and it definitely. gave. me. uh so what I'm looking for here I had. some severe trauma associated with rehab. and you can see how that might play into. some problems later on in my life my. story um the end result of that was that.

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Paradise in my mind if I could just get. outside the fence you know there's like. all sorts of reptiles and critters I. want to go catch it was outside of Ogden. Utah so near Great Salt Lake um and uh I. was I was definitely going to run I mean. I I knew how to survive out in the. desert and that was what I in my mind. that's what I was going to do um but the. day I got there I saw a track star uh. that I had known from school in. California was also sent out there try.

to run and keep in mind I can't run for. [ __ ] like I'm I'm not a. runner and three giant Mormon dudes. tackled his ass and they shot him so. full of thorine he didn't he didn't come. out of the room they put him in for like. a week so I was like I'm not going to. run from this one and so I got to work. manipulating my circumstances again you. know um I convinced another doctor that. I was very very bipolar and just needed. to be medicated and then when they did. that I checked all the boxes and did all.

the stuff and ended up graduating from. that place in N months wow but I was. being medicated for a whole bunch of. [ __ ] that wasn't even wrong with me. which presents all sorts of new problems. my judgment was [ __ ]. um obviously D story my brother's dreams. of finishing acting school out there um. my dad had to take a demotion. with fizer to get us out of there to get.

us out of. California um he moved us back to. Alabama uh I think I. was I think I turned 16 right after they. got me. out and uh so I've been out from under. my parents Ro for like a year at this. point my brother didn't really even. speak to me I do remember the day that I. I drank that bottle of rubbing alcohol I. guess the plan to send me to Utah was.

already in place because the last thing. I remember before I passed out and then. woke up in a hospital as my little. brother going hey Ben you ever been to. Utah so he's always been a little. smartass geez yeah but so what happened. when you got out of there well we moved. to Alabama um and it was weird you. remember how old are you at this point. 16 right about to turn 16 I may have. turned 16 I don't quite remember you. remember I mentioned the kid that.

stepped on my alligator with me boon. that was in Mississippi we moved to. Hoover Alabama and my first day at. school I run into [ __ ] Bo Goodson the. dudes like they had moved and we just. ended up the same high school together. um which almost [ __ ] me up really bad. he gave me a bunch of Aderall that day. and I keep mind I haven't touched any. dope in a year because I've been locked. up and uh I ended up throwing it away. thank God cuz when I got home from. school that day my mom's like let me see. your wallet and that's where it had it. she just had a feeling that Mom gut.

instinct yeah. um so for the rest of high school I I. was pretty good. um Dad got offered a promotion back to. regional manager that would have. required him to move to North Georgia. and he took it and me being the petulent. little unappreciative child that I was. uh reminded him he promised me he. wouldn't move me again and told him I. wasn't. going now if my 16-year-old had said.

that to. me I don't know how I would have react. but it wouldn't be the way my dad did uh. he I don't know how it played out I. ended up moving in with my uncle they. didn't make me move to Georgia with. them um and if I'm being honest dude. they were probably just sick of me my. parents they loved me but they were. probably really tired of me I I couldn't. have managed me so. they let me move in with uh Aunt Sandy. and uncle Danny.

um and so that was my junior. year the summer between Junior and. Senior year I went and spent in Georgia. at my parents and then went back and and. somehow at the end of that summer my mom. and my aunt got into a pissing match. about something I think maybe it's about. my. girlfriend and the end result was I got. my own apartment. for my senior year I I don't I don't. know I didn't question it right um but I.

actually did everything I was supposed. to do I I would have graduated with. honors and I mean I guess on paper I did. but I didn't get to walk at graduation. because the month before I ended up uh I. got caught with alcohol at school but. you know I graduated with honors I got a. scholarship to Auburn math. scholarship and uh I had no desire to. get a math degree but damn so through. all that you still graduated with honors.

and got a full ride scholarship well I. hadn't killed all the brain cells. yet that was still to come. um so I get to Auburn and remember I'd. stayed sober I did get caught with. alcohol at school but that was the only. time I drank was like I got caught the. one time I did it um that may not be. true I feel like it is but it might not. be I don't remember but once I got to. Auburn man the breakes came off it over. with getting drunk as [ __ ] every day.

um I got so bad I was I was this is back. in you know 2000 and if you go get apple. juice at the store they weren't plastic. bottles they were still glass bottles I. would pour it out and fill them with. beer to take to class with me that's how. bad I got that fast I was drinking you. know two cases a. day um. I got a job at Auburn that I was trying. to work and trying to do classes I.

started. Roc um again just trying to be like my. dad you know he did RTC at Auburn um and. so I sucked at PT like I hate running I. was in terrible shape because I was. drinking. constantly and um the drinking just kept. escalating like I I was getting really. close close to drinking myself out of. college um like guidance counselors had. called me in and so my mom or my aunt.

one was like well he needs to go meet. with the students with disabilities or. whatever because I I was diagnosed. bipolar and I'm still being medicated. for it so I did that and they basically. green lit me to misbehave all I [ __ ]. wanted and they have to make reasonable. accommodations for me it was a disaster. I was I was such a manipulative little. [ __ ] um just anything I could get that. gave me an excuse to do what I wanted. I was going to grab onto that and not. let go you.

know were you drinking. for the party were you just drinking. home just drinking if I was awake. literally started when I woke up because. I'd get sick if I didn't I didn't. realize it back then I was already. physically dependent on alcohol wow. and you know like growing up my parents. drank neither one of them had a problem. I knew both of my mom's parents died. alcoholics. but it was never. really beat into my head the way it.

should have been that I was playing with. a loaded. gun um and it I mean it definitely got. me early you know like I was and I. wasn't even old enough to buy alcohol. that was the crazy part that's you. mentioned having homeless people go buy. beer for you I definitely did. that I was never without beer and it was. just beer back then you I didn't do a. whole lot of drugs at Auburn other than. recreationally that was back when. ecstasy was was still X whatever it is. now is.

not but making terrible. decisions. um I ended up getting a girl who was in. her mid 20s. pregnant. um and. uh my mom convinced to get an. abortion uh which [ __ ] me up pretty. good I don't know that I've ever told. that story publicly do you wanted to. have. it no but I didn't want to kill it.

either I'm being honest this girl was on. so much dope though the chances of that. baby making it were very slim anyway you. know she was she was heavy heavy into. all the. drugs I was just drinking um how'd you. meet her met her at a cigar shop uh in. downtown. arburn like six foot tall redhead. and we like the same music and it just. was Off to the Races from.

there how did your mom convince her do. you know I don't I don't know I was so. drunk during that time period. um this is like probably middle of. 2001 but of course that since that. [ __ ] me up it just gave me another. excuse to drink did you go with. her I don't remember. you don't remember M I don't. remember I had a lot of.

blackouts when did it Dawn on. you I guess I did go with her my mom. came too cuz I remember being at the. parking lot I didn't go inside my mom. went inside with. her I'm went side. with and I'm. just went back and I mean that that was. the end of being her um.

she's [ __ ] psychopath uh like. ruptured one of my eardrums beating the. hell out of me one time like she was. just. nuts just nuts I have a pinching for. crazy women I. think uh that was a rough summer though. um so it dawned on you in the parking. lot what was happening I mean I knew. what was happening but like the totality. of it hit me you know went back home and.

drank myself into Oblivion. and she packed her [ __ ] and left and. that was the last time I ever talked to. her does it still bother you yeah yeah. absolutely I love children I love them. you know and to ever do anything to harm. one. I I drank at that problem for 20 years. after that damn yeah. damn that's I mean that's kind of guilt. I don't I can't overcome and I've.

accepted I've come to terms with what. happened but you not to get into a. political conversation like abortion. always turns into but I killed my child. you know that's that's how I look at. it and that's that's. hard that's hard that's hard to cope. with I mean I know you're not I know you. said it still bothers you but. I mean there's a lot of kids you know.

that are doing there's a lot of women. that have done that yeah that probably. feel a sense of. regret what would your advice. be man consider ad option consider ad. option somebody out there will love that. baby somebody will I promise you that I. adopted one of mine and I've got. eight only seven of them are actually. biologically.

M. um I do understand circumstances and and. you know I do understand that that's the. decision some people feel they don't. have a choice but to. make. um I would if I had it to do over again. I don't know that I would have chosen. something different though just because. of how everything was and how everything. is today and I don't know. I don't know that's a tough one man. that's a tough one how how fast did that.

decision happen very quickly like within. a week of finding out she was pregnant. you told your parents yes yes I did I. told my mom that's how that. happened and I was scared to death. because I mean they even though I was in. RC like I was still dependent on my. parents a lot of money you know um I had. lost the scholarship because to keep the. scholarship I had to be a math major and. I did not want to major in math like I'm.

I'm good at math I love math it's. fun I like it because there's a clear. answer to something you know it's very. definitive but I didn't want to work a. job in that so I didn't have a. scholarship so ROTC was like that was. you know I don't have to have my parents. pay my bills they're going to pay it but. I was actually wavered into RTC because. when I was right before we left. Mississippi I tore my ACL playing. football. and never got it. fixed so it was it was just a whole.

giant [ __ ] show and it all went back to. me trying to manipulate my circumstances. how did your I mean how did your mom. react when you told her shock and. disbelief shocking disbelief. um but at the same time I don't think it. surprise. you and if you just listen to the last. half hour of my story I don't think it. surprised anybody else it was not. exactly known for making good decisions.

and most of the bad decisions I made. revolved around alcohol and women at. that point in time so it was bound to. happen sooner or later how old were you. 19 19 years old. damn so where do we go from. here I used to wonder how to truly wake. up feeling refreshed in the morning with. the energy to hit my days head on and I. finally found that using Helix mattress.

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SRS all right Ben we're back from the. break all right got through some heavy. stuff sounds like you we were right. about at I think you lost your. scholarship yeah I had I no longer had a. scholarship um and I was working still. dependent on my parents I had his job at. a service center I I drove a 67 Camaro. back then um I've always loved old cars. and so I got a job at a uh K service.

center in opik Alabama. um and. uh it was the morning of September 11th. 2001 I woke up puking up blood I had. drank a hole in my. esophagus. um I was about to fail out of class a. month into the semester and I knew. it um I had you know been in RTC this is. my second year and um was not good at it. was not good at getting up early because.

I was always hung over I was terrible at. PT because I'm not good at running I. don't have any. ACL um and anyway I'm changing an. alternator on a 73. Impala no 73 Monte Carlo at car service. center and I walk into the break room uh. to get a do prepper because I cannot. stop throwing up blood and I just need. something to calm my stomach down in. carbonation has a weird way of doing. that and I look at the TV and I see the. second plane hit the tower my dad's in.

New York when this. happens. um and it's like the world just stopped. everything. stopped. um I uh we found out daad was okay um. and I walked across the street to a. recruiter and and told him I just want. to go ahead and list and a terrible idea. I'm in no shape to to join the Army. right.

um but. uh on 911 on 911 um you went to enlist. well well I went to talk to a recruiter. because I didn't know legally how that. worked I'm I'm in RC in college right. now um I'm wavered for torn ACL um and. so I wanted to find out what what it. would look like if I. listed and of course the place you know. the next day was. everybody went to go in list um and so. they scheduled me for an ASB and uh I.

just decided I'm rebranding myself Ben. is no longer a college student you know. that's I was I think a mechanical or. maybe chemical engineering major at the. time I changed so many. times I'm G to I'm going to list I'm. going go to the Army um and so they. scheduled me for ASVAB uh I got a 99 on. it. um still had most of my brain cells. thank God and I was an engineer engineer. ing student so like all the the math and. stuff on it was like super familiar to. me uh they found me a slot.

um for 97 Bravo Counter Intelligence. sounded super cool I was going to go. spend uh I think it's 17 weeks in Fort. wuka Arizona I was going to get a. security clearance I was going to get a. $20,000 signing. bonus and so you know I let my parents. know and the process drags out a little. bit it's a few months that go by and I. go down to Max Air Force Base to do Ms. the first. time and I'm there and I meet this.

little brunette from D Florida and get. [ __ ] trashed right and we hook up and. uh I show up to to do Ms the next day. still drunk still drunk and um my whole. life my dad I think carried a chip on. his shoulder that he was Ranger. qualified and infantry officer never. deployed because he served during the. Carter years I wouldn't say a chip on. his shoulder it was a regret he had he. always wanted to get to go do Co guy. stuff and um I didn't want that to.

happen and I fully believe that war was. going to be over in six. weeks which you know at hindsight. looking at it now like holy God that was. dumb right that was America's longest. war and we just walked away from it um. but at the time I was convinced that if. I didn't do something fast I was going. to miss out on everything and and my my. only shot at impressed my dad after all. these fuckups that I've got this is how. I can finally redem myself in my parents. eyes and I want to be abundantly clear.

this is not something my parents put on. me they never made me feel like I was a. disappointment you know they never made. me feel like I had anything to prove I I. put all of this weight on myself that I. had to please my parents and the only. way I could do that is to become just. like my dad I held this man on the. pedestal my whole life I think a lot of. little boys do that you know but I I. maybe took it to an extreme well. anyway I'm telling uh you know we go. through the duck walk the dude looks at. your butthole you check your feet you. know all this [ __ ] you do it Ms and I.

get to that last little room where I'm. picking my MOS and um I'm telling him. about my dad and he's like well you know. there's there's an infantry slot. open and uh my dumbass goes yeah do that. do that and so I listed as an 11. Bravo. um and that that. uh you know. mindsight I hate. running yet again I'm doing something.

that I'm I'm not going to be good at or. capable of trying to impress my dad what. you. know I can relate to you on this. too the only reason I made it through. budge and became a seal is cuz I wanted. to impress my dad he never did anything. like that. ever but what what is it I mean do you. think it's the being the oldest child. like you feel that that pressure that. you always need to impress your parents. I've always put an inordinate amount of.

pressure on myself to perform always to. today I'm I'm doing that right now. actually like the leadup to this you can. ask Jess I was terrified to come in here. I'm always have just put a tremendous. amount of pressure on myself I think a. lot of that is because I'm the oldest. but it's also because I had so much. promise as a kid I had so much promise. and and my my parents were so proud of. me. and they stopped looking at me like that.

you. know and you wanted it back I wanted it. back um I didn't want to be a piece of. [ __ ] drunk but I knew that's what I. was and. um not just a piece of [ __ ] drunk but. like one that put his mother in a. position to have to kill her own. grandchild and. uh they just me alive and I would I. would drink at that problem non-stop you. know.

um all the way up to the time I swore in. like so I picked 11 Bravo spot and uh. looking back here's here's where it. gets this is how [ __ ] it was I was. on Mental Health medication. then I had no ACL so when I got to Ms I. lied about literally all of it no I've. never done drugs no I've never been a. drug rehab no I've never broken a bond. dude I've broken like nine literally.

nine bonds and torn two ligaments at. that point in time I'm raging alcoholic. and I'm just at Ms drunk telling them. nope NOP no no NOP because they' coached. me my recruiter had done his job now he. done his job to get me that 97 Bravo. spot that would have got me a signing. bonus and I probably would have done. just fine if I had taken that slot but. me being me I had to manipulate. everything and and try to finale my way. in because when we looked at the. beginning he's like well I don't have. any infantry spots that's I forget what. the deal was.

so I I decided to Buck the plan again. sorry you were asking no I mean I was. going to say I. mean looking back do you think that you. even wanted to join the Army let alone. infantry going into a combat role or was. that just toing pressure of dad and that. I'm just sure did want it you did want I. badly wanted it my whole life the. beginning or did that become no I had. always wanted that I never wanted to do.

anything other than infantry my whole. life and yeah part of that is because I. watched my dad and and I looked up to. him but the other part is because of the. job itself I mean [ __ ] why did you go to. college well I wanted I wanted to finish. and go in as an officer because that. that was what Dad did and that was. definitely I wanted to do that because. that was the example he set. um but I changed my mind because it it. was peace time up until that day you and. I was like well I'll go be become a.

mechanical engineer I'll do chemical. engineer and go to med school I didn't. know what the [ __ ] I wanted man I just. wanted something I I wanted to be. something that I could be proud of and. that my parents be proud of um but after. September 11th I think I started. channeling a lot of my anger and rage. that I felt at. myself at outward thing like the bad. guys the people that attacked America. and I have to do something about this. it's my duty as an American I mean I. come from I don't know how many.

generations in a row served but pretty. much all up like back to the French. Indian War in the 1750s or whatever that. was my family served in every conflict. this country's had and so I I definitely. felt a duty to do. it but like with so many other things I. get to the finish line and I decide to. [ __ ] it up on my own you know and buck. the plants unless says 11. Bravo I get to Fort Benning and there's. like a 5 we wait or something in.

reception but and it was ridiculous um. because of how many people are in. listing right. then um oh and I'm going through alcohol. DTs I was incredibly physically. dependent on alcohol oh and by the way I. I dced all of my mental health meds. which I may not have needed but my body. is now used to and so I'm going through. withraw from these things at the same. time and I don't have an ACL so this is. why I kind of went when people say that. Ben used to be an infantryman Ben.

enlisted in the Infantry all right I get. like I don't know 10 or 11 weeks into. osit at Fort Benning and my knee. completely goes out I can't tell anybody. because I lied about it so I'm acting. like this is a new injury all right I. had vertical fractures on the outside of. my tibia um and there's no cool story. that goes along with this we were. literally running PT doing the you know. the little sideways run and it just that. was it and so I get to Medical they. confirm you you you know you broke your. leg you're going to get recycled I'm.

like that's super terrible that's awful. I don't want to do that and uh like well. that's that's what's about to happen and. um they put me on crutches I think and. it wasn't getting any better so I. finally bring me back in and look at it. again and this time it's an actual doc. not a PA that's looking at it and she's. like you don't have an HL and that is. not new and you better tell me you know. what what's going on here that's so I. told her she threaten me with a Jag. referral for lying at. Ms so I end up discharged from the Army.

honorably but no benefits. whatsoever um it's yet another example. of if I had just stayed with the plan I. would be at Fort wuka becoming a badass. Counter Intelligence guy but instead Ben. wanted to do what Ben thought would. impress his parents and ended up [ __ ]. everything. up so I unlist after 911 before the. summer 2002 is up I'm walking off of.

Fort Benning and my civilian clothes. carrying my bag no phone uh depressed as. hell feeling like an absolute utter. failure. um and I I I remember getting to a gas. station just off. post and the first thing I did was b a. beer at went right back to it that fast. you know I hadn't had a drink in however.

many months that was and I'm right back. on it and at what point did you call. your dad so I called him you know they. had. payones uh in the the little Barracks. Courtyard area the company area and so. my parents had a 1 1800 number and they. had for a very long time I don't. remember why um so I was able to call my. parents pretty frequently but when they. sent me to the what the. uh the return home unit or may I can't.

remember what it was called usually you. ler or languish in that thing for like. six weeks cuz they're pissed at you. because either you're a quitter you lied. you [ __ ] something up you you're. getting kicked out and I wasn't any of. those things but I felt all of those. things and somehow they cranked me out. of there in one day I was I was in and I. was out the next day so I called my. granddaddy my dad's dad Korean morette. um president of a community college. uh and um and told him what happened he.

lived in Phoenix City at the time uh so. he came and picked me up and uh I don't. remember how I got back to Auburn but I. just I just wanted to crawl in the hole. and [ __ ] die I was so ashamed of. myself you know and I carried that chip. on my shoulder for a long time you know. looking back now like dude I tried. I I if I had just not lied about my. injury and done what the waiver because. apparently RTC doesn't talk to active.

duty so they had no idea about the ACL. RC knew all about it so you know I did. my best I raised my right hand and and. swore in and and then went and tried and. [ __ ] failed like I had at so many. other things up to this point and it all. came back to the same stuff over and. over me manipulating my circumstances. trying to get the outcome I think I want. rather than seeking you know what maybe. what God's will would be in those. circumstances. um end up back at Auburn.

and uh things escalated pretty quick. after. that real quick when did your dad find. out a matter of days or hours from from. when it happened and I don't you tell. him did your granddad tell him yeah I. told him um I don't remember the phone. conversations at all I was blackout. drunk but. I mean Dad obviously knew I had no ACL. and also knew I was insane for listing.

and saying I wasn't on new medication. and all those other things so I think he. probably figured that was going to. happen right. um and so they you know when they. discharged me because it was due to a. pre-existing uh uh what do they call. epts existing prior to service I had to. wait two years and and have proof that I. fixed it before I could rein list. and so my plan and obviously this got. back to RC to that this had happened so. now that they're pissed at me.

too. um my plan was to do do the two years of. college that I had left or whatever and. then go back in um which. is ridiculous to think about because. none of my actions lined up with that. being my plan following this um I went. back to the apartment my parents had. stopped paying for in Auburn. um and hold up alone with a ton of. alcohol and Firearms um you a football.

fan no I'm not I'm not either reason I. was asked is there's a Auburn player. that lived diagonally above me who went. to the NFL was actually a pretty big. deal now I'm not going to name him but I. almost killed him by accident drunk with. a pistol in my. apartment um so Auburn Police Department. came out and took all of my guns that. was my first interaction with the police. uh since. California they didn't charge me with.

anything but they put all my guns in a. box and what were you doing with the gun. so I had a a party at my apartment I had. a whole bunch of people over drunk as. [ __ ] and I had this little Glock 26 was. unloaded and I sitting on my. um the island in my kitchen and uh I. went to the bathroom or to get a beer or. something I come back and I look at it. and the trigger's out and you know on a. Glock when it's when was cocked the. triggers out so I thought somebody had. just cocked my gun and I went to decock. it somebody had put a [ __ ] mag in it.

and chambered around so yes it was. absolutely negligent discharge I never. should have pulled that trigger without. checking the chamber um but I wasn't. like just drunk playing with a. gun except I was drunk playing with a. gun you know it's a miracle I didn't. kill anybody the bullet went through my. roof through his wall and exited right. next to his head on the couch [ __ ] yeah. yeah yeah that was uh. it's a miracle that nobody died I mean.

I'm I I could have gone to prison right. then. um I remember doing a lot of LSD andurs. over the next month or. two. um and basically had a psychotic break I. guess I don't know um ended up going. back home to my parents that girl Rachel. that I met at me what do you mean a. psychotic break uh my it was like a a.

constant state of panic like if you've. ever had a panic attack you know they. last a few minutes usually this lasted. for four days and no amount of alcohol. would make it go away um so psychotic. break is probably not the right word but. something happened and it was after IE. 10 hits of acid in two days what what. got you into the acid um oddly enough it. was the kid that that had that chamber. the ran of that pistol um I just wanted.

to change the way I felt and I would do. anything I could you know I had I had. done acid previously in California. um uh but never to that extent like I. just I ate a ton of it and then we went. picking shoms I mean I lived right. across from the the Auburn Veterinary. College Fields where they have their. llamas or Al pacas or something we give. picture rooms and I've always been. fascinated about psychedelics we could. talk more about that. um but. uh the the timing time frame on all this.

is a blur just because I was I was so. [ __ ] up man completely out of my mind. like my apartment looked like a hoarder. lived in it it was like there was no. carpet you could see nothing but beer. cans. um and. um eventually you know I got evicted I. don't remember that but somehow I end. end up back in. Georgia and somehow Rachel that girl. from dtin that I met a year prior ended.

up in Georgia and my parents with. me I don't remember how that. happened um I don't remember how how she. got back. home do you talk to your parents about. any of this stuff and try to fill in the. blanks some yeah some definitely now. this part right here I haven't I. probably. should um iest haven't even thought. about this time period of my life uh. until today in a really long time you. know I mean I hate talking about the.

fact that I failed at being in the. Infantry um I hate talking about the. fact that I failed at being a college. student you know I hate talking my life. is a constant series of failures up to. this point so I haven't really put a. whole lot of thought into it but there. was like I remember I spent a whole lot. of time down in dtin uh after I got out. after I got back from Fort Benny um I. remember driving that 67 Camaro down to. Dustin a lot uh I remember drinking in.

dtin a. lot um so I really don't know how many. of those gaps my parents could fill in. because I wasn't we weren't talking. during that time period I don't. think I think they knew the wheels were. falling off the bus man you know and my. mom learned a long time ago sometimes. she's got to love me from a distance to. preserve her own Mental Health. which I can completely understand. um I was having a lot of health problems.

from my drinking though I was throwing. up a lot of blood um I lost a whole lot. of. weight. uh you hear about college kids floating. Kegs and drinking a lot of beer and like. that's that's very common but I was next. level when I say I was drinking two or. three cases a day I really mean that so. like 72 beers in a. day um yeah.

um I I would Hazard a guess I was. probably walking around at a constant 0. 2 or3 blood alcohol content and as. you'll hear in a little bit my frame of. reference for that's pretty good um I. usually could tell what I was at um it. was bad though uh I wanted to. die I really did. um and I just I knew if I kept drinking.

I would and so that that's what I was. doing that was your plan that was the. plan I was going to drink myself to. death. um somehow I ended up back in. Georgia at my parents house my brother. was there some of his friends from high. school were there and uh I guess I had. just shown up at their house drunk as. [ __ ] and I don't remember what happened. but I'm sure I picked a fight because I. used to do that and uh my brother had.

had enough and my dad had had enough and. I don't remember what happened but I. remember waking up in jail the next day. with black eyes like I'd had the hell. beat out of me and I was the one that. went to jail because I'm I'm sure I was. the instigator you know so that's my. first time going to jail um they charged. me with uh I guess two counts of. domestic battery cuz it was my dad and. my brother brother um and then one count. of felony terrorist threat because. apparently I said some really dumb [ __ ].

to the. police uh they dropped those I had an. order of no contact with my parents oh I. had I'm I don't know if you've wondered. this but I'm drinking a very like large. amount of alcohol uh you're probably. wondering how I was affording that. somehow I had gotten credit cards and. had paid them just enough to where I had. a $30,000 credit limit and literally ran. up like 20 grand in alcohol. so I bonded myself out of jail with my.

credit card um I don't even know if you. can do that today like I think they only. take cash I don't know um I should know. this uh. anyway bought myself out of jail and I. you know my parents had taken my car. because I got pulled over going like 120. M. hour. um with do guns in the car too never got. caught for that I just remember that had. that girl from Florida in the car with. me though anyway they' taken my car and.

sold it after I get arrested for that. you know I'm banned from going to my. parents house I've got an order of no. contact with my parents my brother and. my brother's friend. um and I somehow convinced a car. dealership to sell me a vehicle and. finance it the truck it was a g a 98 GMC. 4x4 and I convinced an apartment complex. to lease me an apartment a nice one I. had no income at all um how old are you.

at this. point. 21 21 years old. um and of course I I had no way of. paying for this apartment so the Clock. Was. ticking. um and I'm still drinking like a fish um. I end up meeting this guy named. Rod I think was his name who did gutter. cleaning in the apartments and he. offered me a job then he tried to pay me.

in meth which was weird but I took it. anyway and so now now I'm addicted to. meth squatting in an apartment with a. vehicle I'm not paying. for you know a year prior I had been at. Fort Benning trying to become an. infantryman and the year prior to that I. was in college kicking ass and now I'm. squatting and addicted to meth and aring. call. it oh and a mam Bond like it just it. went South so fast where it felt like it.

did it's going south much faster as we. get more into this. but. um somehow I even had internet in this. apartment and I somehow had a computer. in this apartment I don't remember how I. got these things but I had them and I. logged into you remember AOL insta. messenger Okay so I log into an old AIM. account and my ex-girlfriend from when I. was 12 and 13 and then again 16 and 17.

from Mississippi messages me and uh the. same one you were pissed off about that. you had to leave to go to. California one of the things we've been. wanting to start on patreon is deep. dives into the guests we found Ben and. Jess's Story so inspiring that we. actually created a mini dock out of what. they're doing right now it's over on.

patreon you guys can go check it out. I've been wanting to do this for a long. time and we finally have the team to be. able to go and produce these things. thanks to patreon I've talked about this. on almost every show I thank our patrons. without you guys none of this would be. possible I'm so excited to bring this to. you guys I think you're going to love it. I know you're going to love it and Ben. his story is so awesome flipping the. Trap houses into halfway houses it's an.

amazing mini documentary on what they're. doing right now like I said we found. this story so inspiring we're going to. start doing this with more and more. guests that we have on the Shawn Ryan. Show head over to patreon right now you. can view the whole. documentary no at the same time Fran but. it was a different girl okay um me and. this girl her name's Erin you know we've. known each other since we were 12 I went. to the same church she actually wrote me.

letters when I was locked up in rehab in. California in Utah um she'd stayed in. touch with my mom and had just been kind. of like a constant positive influence. over the years when I moved back to. Alabama 16 and 17 we dated long distance. and um anyway she messaged messages me. on uh. aim and uh she's like is this been. like yeah and she didn't believe me. because apparently she'd been trying to. message me and kept getting one of my. crazy girlfriends and um so I like well.

[ __ ] call me so I pick up a phone. caller and uh we talked for five minutes. and she's like well look I'm I'm married. but I'm about to get divorced but I. don't you come up to North Carolina and. I'm sitting there thinking in the back. of my head this [ __ ] has no idea what. she's getting into like she good little. church girl right and. uh I ended up my credit cards are all. almost maxed out at this point but the. clock's ticking like I'm about to be. homeless and my truck's going to get. repoed and uh so I get the truck and I. start driving to Charlotte run out of.

gas my credit cards. declined and I convinced somebody to. fill my truck up with gas I make it to. Charlotte long story short she's. pregnant and uh so that what do you mean. long story short go into it I went up. there I went up there we spent two. nights together I get back down to. Atlanta um I had I. what do you look like at this point. absolute dog [ __ ] shaved head it's cut. everywhere because I tried to shave it. with a you know a big razor I was thin.

as [ __ ] uh still a raging. alcoholic I I looked like death warmed. over in fact meth H meth yeah and a meth. addic and meth now she had no idea about. the meth or the alcohol any of that um. even after you met her even after I met. her she just thought I was skinny you. know you don't think she looked the. other way she could smell it on you well. so she did she knew I was drinking she. was drinking too then right so like that. was acceptable cuz she didn't see what. happens when I don't drink I get sick of.

[ __ ] she also didn't see me drinking at. six o'clock in the morning so I was able. to hide it for a couple. days um now I remember how I had the. computer I had gotten a job selling. merchant services credit card processing. over the phone to somebody and so. somebody provided me a computer we had a. deal go through so I had a couple. thousand dollars um I went and spent. that time up there in Charlotte with her. came back to my apartment I'm trying to. figure out how to how to afford. everything how to start rebuilding my. hold on what what did you guys do up.

there just drink have sex yeah yeah yeah. just locked yourself in the room went to. like a holiday in and and yeah that's. that's what we did and I go back to. Atlanta and it lasted two days two days. that's it it what ended it well I had to. go back to Atlanta cuz I there and. actually ended it was she said she's. getting divorced. her husband didn't know that part yet. he's about to because like 3 weeks after.

I get back to Atlanta she realized she's. pregnant and there's no way it's his. because they've been sleeping in. different rooms and blah blah blah so. she has to tell him and then she has to. tell me I may have misrepresented I'm. not actually in the middle of a divorce. but I'm going to be now. um and I ended up moving to. Charlotte um moved in with her and her. sister. uh I quit drinking cold turkey I quit. meth the day I left Atlanta I've never. liked meth ever you know I did it.

because it was there well mostly because. the guy tried to pay me in meth and I. wanted at least something for my labor. um so anyway I I quit drinking cold. turkey and it almost killed me I got. pancreatitis I lost 40 pounds in a month. and and keep in mind I'm already pretty. thin I didn't have that to lose um and I. almost. died they didn't know what was wrong. with me because I wasn't being truthful. with any of the doctors about how much I. I drank um and when I would try to be. they would discount like well you're. you're you're young there's no way you.

can drink that much you know and so of. course I took that and banked that like. see even the doctor says I can't drink. that much you know just in case I want. to start drinking again. um but I got sober and I stayed that. way um Jackson our oldest child was. born um Aaron f for divorce and uh I get. a job in Charlotte I'm after I heal up. and and I can eat and keep food down and.

I'm gaining weight again I get a job at. how long did that. take I was I was bedridden for 30. days um took about 30 days to get. through that yeah um well it took about. 60 to fully recover from it all in but I. I couldn't get out of bed for 30 days. and I didn't realize this then but what. does the girl think that you can't get. out of bed in 30 days well she knew had. pancreatitis and I'd gotten honest with. her about the drinking too why did you. quit drinking because I knew I had I had. a son coming so that cleaned you up that.

clean me up yeah you know um I I didn't. want to be a piece of [ __ ] and I didn't. want to die anymore I wanted to to do. right and um and she was supportive oh. yeah she knew when when we got together. you know cuz she'd been there through. California and Utah she she knew I I had. battled addiction and she knew I battled. but she thought I was bipolar we all. thought I was bipolar still at the time. so she knew what she was getting into. what why I mean you're saying this is a.

a good yeah church girl she were you a. project what was this she was convinced. from the time we met that we were meant. to be together why I don't know she. never told you she just I was her one I. was her one. um. and you know from my perspective I've. had nothing but crazy psychos all the. way up to this point and she like wants.

to have a family and cook me dinner and. and be sweet to me and she doesn't you. know get mad and hit me and it was great. from my perspective too you know it it. seemed great and so I quit drinking and. we got through that I got a job she had. a job she was in school. um now are you talking to your parents. at this point I didn't talk to them the. whole time I was sick they didn't know. where I was uh they just knew that. apartment my mom came and saw me the. night before I left and just sobbed.

because I looked so bad when did the. restraining order. lift so that case got adjudicated they. gave me diversion they dropped felony. terrorist threat and they gave me. diversion which I completed uh through. community service at Red Cross in North. Carolina they let me move my probation. up there um so it got deleted there's no. criminal record associated with it like. it's it's like it never. happened as soon as I took that deal the.

restraining order was lifted but my. parents and I had already been talking. because after I moved to Charlotte I. didn't know this but Lauren Erin's. sister had called my parents to say you. know hey just want you to know Ben's. here he's trying to get sober he's alive. Aaron's the girl Aaron's the girl laen. or sister so my parents knew where I was. I didn't know they knew that though I. thought I had just gone no contact and. that was my plan I was I was I was going. to go no contact until I could come back. with something saying here's what I've. done you know I'm not a piece of [ __ ].

see and uh so I was looking at getting. back into. school I was working this job as this. guy who did um electronics. recycling. um you're like paying me like $7 an hour. or something ridiculous but as I'm. watching the way this business operates. I notice a lot of stuff goes in the. dumpster that looks like it's like. probably valuable like computer servers. and hard disk drives and all sorts of.

stuff like this I started talking to. them about it come to find out the way. their business operates they do asset. recovery so if if you lease let's say. you lease these lights and these. microphones from somebody well the. person you leasing from is writing that. off and then when it's done with they're. supposed to throw it away or give it to. electronics recyclers so the guy's. explaining to me all of the stuff's. already paid for I don't give a [ __ ]. it's going on my dumpster and I was like. well could I list it on eBay and take a. cut of it and he's like go ahead your. idea is dumb but go ahead the idea was. not dumb I started like printing money.

it was going really. well and um my parents uh decided that I. had been doing good enough to go back to. college and they were going to help we. had a kid now and so I moved from how. did they feel about the kid they were. just Overjoyed they were not first but. the fact that it was with Aaron and my. parents have known Aaron you know since. she was a little girl they know Aaron's. mom you know like they were they they. thought this is the turnaround Ben. needed and I did too I really did uh I.

think we all thought that the hopes were. high let's put it that way you know Ben. finally has some stability had there had. there ever been any more discussion. about the abortion no never came up. never since no. um I mean I I talked to Aaron a lot. about it because it it ate me alive dude. it ate me alive for a long time so you. you and your mom have not spoken about. the abortion since it's happen still to. this day to this day probably probably. should it's one of those things I kind.

of blocked out until I started telling. him my story you know it uh it's. just it hurts I can't go back and change. that you think you'll talk about it now. I think I need to I think I need to I. think I need a long [ __ ] time ago too. how will you bring it. up oh I got a really good excuse now hey. mom guess what I'll let slip on the. Shawn Ryan Show we should talk about. this before it. airs.

H. yeah I know uh so I guess it wasn't. entirely true we did talk about it once. and my mom told me that she went inside. with Amber and Amber was much further. along than she would have been if it was. mine now I don't know if my mom told me. that to make me feel better or to make. herself feel better or if that's reality. and I doubt very much that Amber's alive. for me to track down and find.

out so I had forgotten that we did talk. about that have you ever tried to track. her down. no no oddly enough that X that I went. nuts over hit me up on LinkedIn like two. months ago or I guess it was a year ago. hey I'm getting divorced what are you. doing I was like I am not getting. divorced and you can get out of my. [ __ ] DMs. ah I've had a few xes pull that and. they'll pop up tell me they're getting. divorced hell even. Aon.

anyway yeah you can tell that abortion. still eats at me MH it does a lot. um I used to get drunk about. that a. lot but I think part of me was using it. as an excuse it does bother me I can. tell but uh I I would take any excuse I. could just to not have to be responsible. for my.

behavior and I think we run into that. with a lot of addicts and alcoholics. especially in the veteran. community and that's maybe a. controversial. topic but I think in society's efforts. to understand especially what combat. vets have gone through we might have. been advised some of them to adopt a. victim. mentality I'm not going to disagree with. that I've talked about it several times.

on here well and I think for most people. that would be okay but when you're. dealing with an addict or an. alcoholic victims don't recover victims. die and that's a start truth and so I. don't know what the answer is to that. and that's a rabbit hole I just took us. on but it's a fact man you know when. we're trying to get anyway. keep going we're trying to get vets who. are battling alcoholism and addiction. out of the gutter and to take. responsibility for their.

lives I'm going to I'm going to preface. this I don't know what the answer is but. I do know what part of the problem is. and we have all of these veteran. specific recovery groups and these. veteran specific rehabs these are great. somebody's getting paid out the ass to. make that and the only way they stay. open is if they keep convincing vets. they're going to recover different and. keep getting vets into. programs veterans especially combat. veterans do need special treatment when. it comes to certain things you know when.

we talking about combat trauma moral. injury yeah yeah that is something very. Niche and you need specific help from. veterans with that but when we're. talking about alcoholism and addiction. bro you recover just like everybody else. does the same 12 steps that have work. for 90 years are going to work for you. too you just got to work them and not. everybody has to go through 12 steps. plenty of people get sober without that. stuff but it's the ones that think that. they're in the room as we call it. terminally unique and it is terminal if. you think you're special and different. than another addict or alcoholic the.

chances of you being able to lean on. their experience strength and hope to. get. better it it's cut infantes small. because you're you're nullifying their. experience and thinking it can't help. you just because they don't have some of. the other experiences you have and I. don't know that I'm the right guy to. take that conversation with the masses. cuz I'm barely even a veteran and I'm. definitely not a combat veteran I'm just. speaking from experience we we've seen. this time and again with vets that that. want to hold on to that what makes them. special and they are special they're.

less than 1% of the population they're. special but when it comes to getting off. dope or putting down a bottle no you. can't be special in that. regard yeah we just had a conversation. about this last night on on um our patre. on live chat was with the firefighter. and uh you know I think I don't think I. know. I. mean being a seal is something I.

did Contracting for the agency is. something I did being a firefighter is. something you did being a cop is. something you did but you know when. being a combat vet is something you did. it doesn't Define who the [ __ ] you are. that's not you that's something you did. and so many of us me included you know I. did it you wrap that up into your. identity yeah the line gets blurred and.

understandably so but it still there you. know and it's it's still a massive. impediment to vets that are trying to. get sober they've got to they've got to. shred that or shed the victim mentality. you know and it's hard it's hard to tell. somebody that we're into a trafficking. survivors too the same mentality and the. same incentivization to maintain. victimhood gets pushed on them gets. pushed I I think they think they can't. do anything else you know I don't think.

it's just victim mentality now there is. definitely the victim mentality I see it. all the time you see it all the time I. think there's a lot of commonalities. with this stuff you know that that go. into that but probably with trafficking. victims as well I'm not I don't have as. much insight into that but you know you. you get because it be it's it's not just. a job you know it's it's a it's a. lifestyle it's a culture it's a a 24/7.

365 job yep and your identity becomes. wrapped up in that you lose sight of who. you really are and then when you when. you wrap your identity up into that and. and it it you allow it to become part of. you when that rle is over you your. entire sense of who you are exactly and. you know people get wrapped up in it. they they can't they can't set that down. and. go hey this is something I did now it's.

time to move on yeah. it's the war's over you're too old to go. back it's it's it's it's done so you. can't keep living like like you're. living like you're going back or going. to fight another fire or going to solve. another crime are going to fight another. crime you got to treat it just like any. other life I think I think you know I. think a lot of same with with. trafficking victims you know that that.

is that's a that's a lifestyle yep that. is a lifestyle of sex parties all that. kind of stuff you know and and. and you just can't carry that with you. and and people think it's impossible a. lot of people think it's you know I I'll. never I I don't you know how are these. skills going to transfer over they're. not going to [ __ ] transfer over you. mean you don't get to shoot people in. the face every day anymore yeah they're. not going to transfer over and but you.

have to you have to find who you are you. have to find who you are you have to. develop you. know new hobbies 100% new. interests and I mean look if I me coming. out of the SEAL Teams or me coming out. of Contracting for the CIA I sure as. [ __ ] didn't think could be sitting here. podcasting but you know and I and that's. what I did you know I I I went into. tactics and then I didn't like teaching.

tactics I I. just it was the thing I did and then and. then I threw a bunch of tried a bunch of. different things you know and I didn't. like this didn't like this I kind of. like this let me try it again let me try. it again and. then it changes man you you have to you. have to be willing to like put that [ __ ]. behind you and think of it as that was a. segment of my life that's not who I am.

that's over now let's move on to the. next thing and it takes time you can't. just make that decision you know. immediately and go oh now I'm going to. be I want to do this it takes time to. figure out who the [ __ ] you are and what. you like doing and what new interests. are and you have to be open to accept. those new interests to develop who. you're going to become rather than. living with who you were or who you.

thought you were well that's what comes. that's who you thought you were and even. even even back to the firstborn you know. impressing the parents thing I mean that. was that was a huge burden on me for a. long. time. and like it's just this this it's it's. it's this pressure and it it wasn't who. I was man but we do it to ourselves. though we do it to ourselves it's a. self-imposed prison yep and once you. realize that you're free to redefine you.

know to identify to find that thing that. gives you purpose again you how do you. say his last name fetes Chris fetes. fetus fetus Chris fetus you and him had. a great conversation about that about. finding purpose in in in life after any. of those roles that used to identify who. we are you know and that's really what. it comes down to and I've noticed that. to be especially true for vets so while. I I just had a rant about trying to get. vets over I've I've got something. positive to add to that you take a.

veteran who is struggling with. alcoholism or addiction and you find. them purpose bro they're going to change. the world I mean fast too you just got. to help and find that. purpose let's move on all right so we're. in Charlotte North Carolina Aaron has. had Jackson my oldest child I'm sober. I'm working. I've started up the side hustle on eBay. that's going pretty good and my parents. decide that you know since Ben's a.

father now and and is getting married. Ben needs college degree and uh and I. was very excited to hear that. um I don't know why my parents decided. to show back up for me the way they that. they did because I never in a million. years could have expected this from them. but they they put us in a house in. Huntsville. Alabama um and basically made sure all. of our basic needs were covered um and I. I took out student LS and Aon and I both.

went to. college. um school went really well I was I was. working during school um I was kicking. ass I think I had like a 3.8. GPA um I'd switch to business. because engineering you know with. everything I had going on just wasn't. going to happen I needed to graduate. quick and and get a. job and yet again I decided to follow my. dad's footsteps surprise surprise and.

and set my eyes on a job with fizer. because I loved the life he'd been able. to provide for us you know even though I. didn't appreciate it at the time um so I. wanted to go following his footsteps at. fiser um kicking ass in business school. um my granddaddy the one that picked me. out from Fort Benning was oddly enough. battling a myotrophic lateral sclerosis. lugar's disease and was nearing the end. of of his life with that you know it's.

always terminal and it's very rare for. somebody to get at his age he was in his. 70s um and my grandmother his wife of 50. years had Alzheimer's and they were both. getting close to the end that was one of. the reasons we moved back to Alabama was. to be close to them and I've always been. extremely close to both of them my. grandparents I mean I they were probably. my two favorite people ever um and and. uh Grandaddy died um he did get to meet. Jackson. um and uh I started drinking.

again. um and really what I I did was kind of. [ __ ] up I I said I was going to quit. for a year let's walk it all the way. back you started drinking. again right after your grandpa's death. yep let's just walk through that. decision-making. process uh there there really is not a.

decision making process involved in this. one you're sober for a year at this. point I was sober for a year and. uh and. I I told Aaron and Lauren back in. Charlotte that I was going to quit. drinking for a. year this year has passed and now I have. an excuse my my favorite person on Earth. just died a normal person drink over. that I'm a normal person now you see I. put the alcohol down for a year. voluntarily that makes me. normal that was the the [ __ ] up.

thinking I was using and uh I mean I. knew full well in the back of my mind I. was not going to be able to. maintain um where did you go it's a gas. station right. Street you know and. uh as I started drinking again and oddly. enough I I did hold it together I I was. making all my classes. uh my kid was well taken care of my yard. was perfectly manicured at the house my. parents were paying for I was making it. you know I was working two jobs.

sometimes um over the breaks I would. work 12h hour shifts 7 days a week for. 30 days straight in a factory um making. good. money uh but drinking and. um my parents found out I guess Aaron. had told them or maybe they found a beer. bottle or something I don't know and. just raised. holy hell over the fact that I was. drinking again and I broke it down like. I don't see what the problem is I'm look. at all of what I'm doing despite the.

fact that I'm drinking like what's. what's the big deal obviously my parents. know what the big deal is I'm a raging. alcoholic it doesn't matter what I'm. able to maintain I'm only going to. maintain that until I can't and the day. when I can't is going to come it always. does. um Aaron ends up getting pregnant again. we're still in college so Jacob's on the. way and uh we had a huge blow up about. my drinking and so. my Petty response to that was like fine.

I'll quit for two years this time and. that's what I did and so I put it back. down and Jacob was born and life was. great I was going to college you know I. was doing really good. um and then I get sick. again like the pancreatitis said came. back when I quit drinking or something. we couldn't figure it out the doctors. couldn't figure it out I lose a shitload. of. weight.

um I uh end up going over to my parents. house in Georgia and they take me to. some specialist over there who figures. out I have literally pickled my. gallbladder I drank an organ out of my. body so they remove the gallbladder in. 2005 um and then realized I'd done a lot. of other damage to my GI tra the drink. and all times I've been throwing up. blood and so they do another operation. called a Nissen procedure which is. supposed to be for reflux but they were. trying to undo Damage i' Done um I was.

supposedly the youngest person in the. state of Alabama to ever have that. surgery done. um but i' stopped. drinking uh I had two abdominal. surgeries which are extremely painful um. and so they had me on a lot of pain. pills. um which I don't know that I was. addicted to them but I sure loved them. and I was taken like as prescribed you. know I wasn't taken extra but I. definitely developed a taste for opiates.

during this time period. um I end up graduating college and get. hired on at fiser as a sales rep. up um they moved us to Memphis that's. how I ended up in. Memphis. uh the drinking culture at fiser are. really anywhere in corp America it's not. a great place for an incognito alcoholic. to be and I was not doing meetings I. just stopped drinking right so you know.

it was just a matter of time and it. started pretty. fast right back to drinking every day. right back to drinking at 6 o'clock in. the morning to the point that they. figured it out at fiser training and put. me out on short-term disability for. being an alcoholic I'm like that seems. [ __ ] the the way this works at fer. at the time if you're on short-term. disability you still get paid and you're. not allowed to work at all and I thought.

that was the dumbest thing I've ever. heard in my life I was excited to be. working um I I came out of fizer. training with like one of the highest. test scores ever um they hired me to. sell uh pain management meds. um and uh an inhaled insulin that ended. up bombing a couple years later but I I. excelled in the training like all that. medical love had come back I've got a. job explaining to doctors the. pharmacokinetics of you know different.

drugs and it it was awesome I wanted to. work and they wouldn't let me because I. had this drinking. problem and we've just moved to Memphis. we're in a new city we don't know. anybody um you know and I did get to. work a little bit out in the field and. do my actual job before the chips all. came falling down on this. [ __ ] and um. I end up getting. um sword I want to say alcoholic.

psychosis but it was worse than that. wcky corsac offs it's supposed to be. permanent brain damage from the man I. was. drinking uh and it was so bad that the. neurologist that was telling us about. this told Aaron that she needed to start. taking videos of me and the kids so that. I would remember them because pretty. soon I'm I'm not my brain is turning. into swis Che from the man of alcohol. I'm consuming uh and that if I ever. drink again um I'm I'm going to die uh.

and I refused to accept that I backed. off of my drinking because I was having. very bad memory problems very bad um. like it was frightening scaring the [ __ ]. out of me like I I did believe the. doctors that I might have the memory. thing I didn't believe I was going to. die if I drink again this was in early. 2007. I'm not wanting to accept of an. alcoholic you know outside looking in. bro you were 25 years old or whatever I. was and you drink an organ out of your.

body like that's that's a a clue you. know um if if you're any age and you. drink until you're puking up blood. you're not a person that should drink so. outside looking in I think the whole. world knows Ben's a raging alcoholic. everybody but Ben accepts this and I was. still obsessed with the fact that no I'm. just I'm a real man I can drink and um. we end up at my parents house it's. Easter Sunday of. 2007 and um they tried to do an. intervention with.

me and I wanted absolutely nothing to do. with that at all you know got two kids. in the. house i' I'd gotten off disability at. this point and been in the field. absolutely kicking ass like overselling. quotas left and right setting sales. records like I'm. I deserve a goddamn drink y'all can [ __ ]. off you know I'm off to a hotter start. than my dad was at five the way I'm. looking at this and so I left the house.

real pissed off and uh I hit Scottsboro. Alabama going about 130 and a car. flipped single car accident I was. buckled and my seat broke on the second. or third flip and I went out the rear. windshield going over 100 miles an hour. now I remember flying you know through. the air and uh like I had time to. cognitively think I need to make sure I. land on my feet and right about that.

time my face hit the the grass in the. medy and I had Road burn all over my. head I bounced uh flipped into over in. several. times. um I ended up breaking my pelvis in. three places um which if you're not. familiar with pelvic fractures it's. extremely dangerous all your organ and. sit in your pelvis um my left leg the. one that i' screwed up in the Army and. in football was completely demolished uh. half of my tibia is now bone.

filter um they had to reconstruct the. the tibial Plateau plates in there. um that's a few other broken bombs that. was it for me I got sober that. day and uh and it would have stayed it. if I had just done this is 2007 if I had. done in 2007 what they've been telling. me to do since 1997 which is go to. [ __ ] meetings like you're not special.

this is a problem lots of people have. you go to these meetings that make you. better if I'd have been willing to do. that I'd have stayed sober from Easter. Sunday 2007 and me and you wouldn't be. sitting here right now. um I uh I decided to leave fizer I was. going to do everything other than go to. meetings though I was not going to drink. I even quit cigarettes I quit every. mental health medication they had me on. I was drunk when I wck the car I was. also on clopin which was prescribed to. me I was also on Xanax which is. prescribed to why I'm on both of those.

at the same time is beyond me I'm on. like 100 milligrams of ater all a day. like I'm on all the dope state trooper. saw how [ __ ] up I was I was like. pretty sure you're taking some stuff. you're not supposed to but I'm not. charging you you know and I was like. that's it that's you know God just. winked at me I'm taking it I'm taking it. and I'm fixing my life so I quit smoking. cigarettes I quit all the the meds. um and uh and I got. sober uh I decided to leave fiser.

because the drinking color was too bad. and I as good as I was doing there I. should be making a lot more money and so. I started looking into getting a job in. medical device sales uh and that ended. up being exactly what I did I got a job. selling medical devices um I interviewed. for several one was in women's health. space one was in trauma selling the. exact plate that was in my leg uh and. then cardiac is where I feel my passion. so not a cardiovascular surgeon but I'm. getting to sell cardiac devices in the. cath lab cardiologist and. electrophysiologist I'm getting nerd out.

on all this cool stuff and I was making. money hand over fist I think I made like. 230 that year at 25 20 26 years old like. I was doing really good. um uh and then we had a a companywide. meeting in. Chicago and I had like fizer does all. these functions it's impossible to not. be around everybody being drunk when you. work at pharmaceutical company medical. advice is a little different territories. are much more spread out um and so I.

hadn't been exposed to that we had the. meeting in Chicago and I realized I'm in. the same [ __ ] environment I wasn't. fer except it's even worse they were. like harassing me for not drinking um. and I ended up getting into it with. their VP of sales pretty big pretty bad. and I was like I can't I can't stay here. and that was just as well because they. started uh telling us to commit Medicare. fraud uh changed billing codes so they.

would cover our devices and some other. stuff that I knew was extremely illegal. I asked a question and they terminated. me uh which is fine because I wanted. that to happen anyway now a few years. later they ended up getting fined I. think $21 Million by the office of the. Inspector General for exactly what I. asked a question about so whatever. um what was the question. question is it not Medicare fraud to. change this diagnosis from palpitations. to conduction delay unspecified knowing. full well that yes they mean the same.

thing but Medicare will only pay for. conduction delay unspecified not. palpitation and I sent that in an email. with those exact word they knew I was. firing shots at him like I'm telling you. I know you were you are breaking federal. law right now and I'm not going to do it. and I want you to reply to this email. and tell me in writing that you want me. to do. it um two of us sent that email my buddy. actually was The Whistleblower that got. a few million dollars on when they got. fined I went back to that little side. hustle I. had um because I wanted to I wanted to.

start my own business I wanted to be. self-employed um this is the only way in. my mind I could I could stay sober the. way Ben had to stay sober which is I. need to just work for myself and create. my own culture at my job and so I ended. up. um I ended up making a lot of eBay. listings of some computer and server. gear that I'd had um laying. around but it's Dawning on me like I. just went from making a lot of money to. zero income my wife is a stay-at home. mom I have two kids you know I'm I'm.

t-ball coach I'm cub scout leader like I. got a lot of responsibilities and no. money coming in um so I'm going through. my garage like trying to figure out what. can I do what can I do what can I do and. there's a broken flat screen TV in my. garage I was like I'm gonna find a. screen and fix that thing and sell it. because this is back when like a 37inch. TV was $2,000 or whatever they were I. get on eBay and there's literally no. screens for these TVs. anywhere um and I'm like well that's.

weird uh there's no aftermarket parts. available me being me always thinking of. a hustle I took the TV apart and listed. all the parts on eBay for sale as. working because I knew that worked the. only thing that was wrong with that TV. was the scream was broken wake up the. next day and there's 400 bucks in my. PayPal account I had sold every part out. of that TV that. was basically from a dumpster overnight. and so I went to a TV parts place in. Memphis or a TV repair shop in Memphis.

and asked them if I could buy broken. screen TVs from them and they're like. why would you want to do that and I told. them they're like we we need a new. source for parts that's a great idea and. so I then next thing I know I'm buying. broken TVs from every repair shop in. Memphis I'm running ads on Craigslist. and buying broken TVs I started this. business in my garage in 2009 that's. when everything fell apart with the. medical device companies 09 um and by. 2011 I had a 7500 square foot warehouse.

and a dozen. employees wow it grew quick man um I had. my first website built I got on Shopify. in 2010 or maybe 2009 they had like 34. employees and were renting space from. somebody else they didn't have their own. office back then you know Shopify is. massive now um and so. I stayed sober that whole time I didn't. even start smoking cigarettes again I'm. off all the mental health meds and I've. realized there's nothing wrong with my. brain I'm just a high stress person that.

does have ADHD and high anxiety. sometimes but everything was going. really good um my. dad well let me back up we had Lily eron. wanted to try again for a girl and so we. got her uh Lily and Aaron. is not great at taking medication on. schedule. so birth control being one of those um a. year after Lily was born we had twin. boys so three kids in a year but I I.

don't care I mean I'm making good money. like everything's going good I'm excited. um my dad ended up getting cut from. fiser a couple years before that um. and he'd gone into business with one of. his old buddies and I guess it was they. were having some Financial stream they. moved into the house next door to us uh. my dad actually worked for me. briefly. um and. uh I don't remember exactly when it was.

in. 2011. but some stuff happened between my. parents um and I don't want to get into. it. but the the whole holding my parents on. a pedestal. thing kind of got ripped away. um and uh. but you don't want to go into it let's. put it this way they came they came real. close to getting divorced and I I saw a. different side of a lot of things that.

[ __ ] me up to my core and both of them. yeah and um and I didn't have anybody. talk to about that I didn't know who to. go to um I didn't know how to deal with. it and I ended up. drinking what year is this 2011. um and. the really bad part about that is that. it nothing bad happened it went. okay and so me and eron decided that you.

know maybe maybe I wasn't an alcoholic. after all because she'd miss drinking. you know eron's not an alcoholic like. she was a social Drinker and she missed. it for the next six months you know I'm. I'm enjoying my single Mal scotch and. smoking cigars and making crazy money at. this TV parts business you know I'm on. top of the world. dude. um and then I want to say is like.

November December. 2011 my leg starts acting up the one. that I got the plate in and. um it swells up and it's like just nasty. gnarly looking uh I ended up having a. methylin resistant staff infection that. had recurred now this had happened. before. it came back um and it was really really. bad like they were talking about. potentially I was going to be in a above. KN ampt if it moved anymore and I'm.

freaking the [ __ ]. out um they got me on a lot of pain. medication um and I'm I'm drinking again. you know and that's not a good. combination uh I wasn't abusing the pain. medication but I have a really high. tolerance opiates and we've already. established I'm I'm bad about. manipulating doctors and so I convinced. my doctor that I needed a lot more than. I. needed so I was physically addicted to.

prescribed pain uh pain pills which ones. uh. peret. um at first peret at. first speaking of above KNE amputations. I actually had an amputee living on my. couch at this point um he had come back. from Iraq lost the leg and ended up. addicted to. oxycodon um prescribed by the VA we'. given him a job got him off of our couch.

and moved him into the house next door. to us my parents had moved out. um and he had been clean like he went. through rehab and he's rebuilding his. life and. um I've been an absolute [ __ ] at work. and I realized it's these [ __ ] pain. pills and so I flushed him down the. toilet and he saw me do it and he looked. at me like I was a crazy person I was. like what you know I just I literally. just cussed out a guy that spent $90,000. with me in the last 18 months I can't I. can't do this he goes he just laughed.

and then it hit me I am physically. addicted to these things and I'm about. to find out what it means to be dope. sick and sure as [ __ ] I did about eight. hours later I could not. move and then comes Sergeant Deon with a. little blue pill that he got from the VA. and that was the first time I ever took. one of the 30 milligram roxies and I was. better like. that. um I say better I was addicted to. something much much stronger so it.

started out with the prescribed pain. pill habit it progressed to somebody. else's prescription and then it. progressed even worse than. that to what. so I went back and forth with the pain. pill addiction for probably all. 2012. um and it. it made me realize this drinking. problem's getting worse quickly and so I. went to rehab detox anyway in Georgia on.

your own accord oh yeah I wanted it you. know but I still had this air of. entitlement about me you know I own a. business I've housed a homeless veteran. I given him a job you know I only drink. single B Scotch you know I'm I'm bougie. and so I had to go to this expensive ass. place uh where Steve Ron and Bert. Reynolds got cleaned and I wasn't going. to file it on insurance either because I. also have started up Black Rifle and. brush fire tactical and these other. tactical e-commerce Brands I don't want. my name I don't even I know and I'm an.

ALC callic you you had already started. all these other companies 2012 yeah I. started those up on Shopify this is. before shop if I said you can't sell. guns on. here so um so what was Black Rifle coat. but it was a guny comers so not actual. Firearms just parts accessories and. ammunition um most of it drop we would. Warehouse some of it um and ship it out. in just like their damn TV parts and. what was the other company brush fire. tactical we had several of them we had. two testicles tacticle which was.

hilarious uh we had what did they sell. it was all the same every every every. brand sold the same stuff I was playing. with branding to see which one I could. get to go viral so basically you just. bid it you created a business model out. of the electronics. Industry and brought that into Firearms. yeah % and the progression happened. sorry I was so stuck on telling you. about the the drugs and alcohol I forgot. that. part at retch that was the name of the.

the TV parts company and it was doing. really well um but I don't give a [ __ ]. about TVs I love Firearms you know I was. trying to figure out where to spin this. into Firearms or muscle cars or. something that I'm passionate about um. and so I discovered Drop Shipping how. how many companies were you running like. five at in a given time but they were. all running out of the same thing and. the way I look at it so even though. they're different entities the business. model is very similar for all of them. now tactical and TV parts are different. because the TV parts you're having to. buy truckloads of broken televisions.

literal you know 53ft truckloads a lot. of Labor goes into testing and stripping. but then after that it's just pulling. parts off of shelves sticking them in. boxes and shiing them to the right. person that second half is identical for. the the gun parts pull part off your. shelf stick in the Box make sure it gets. the right person so I'm able to use the. same labor on part as far as the. fulfillment side goes and we' learned. about Drop Shipping in in the TV parts. because you can drop ship Electronics. that's where you're selling something. you don't even have you're buying it.

wholesale from a third party warehouse. who then ships it directly to your. customer it's super convenient you take. the margin right and so we'd gotten into. that some on the electronic side of. things um and then that that was what we. built Black Rifle brush fir Triple T all. of those Brands around was the Drop. Shipping model and it was really I was. just wanting to see on The Branding side. like and it was weird all the products. are the same all the staff is the same. but there were like Diehard customers of. triple te that would get arguments on.

social media with customers from black. like it was hilarious like you it's all. me like what are you do anyway um and it. was weird because like I'd make prices. higher on one and lower on the other and. watch I don't know it was fun it was. like a game to me um but it went really. well for a long time uh until like mid. 2012 the drinking was getting out of. hand and I was like I'm going to I'm. going to pay cash out of pocket to go to. this bougie place in Georgia where Bert. rold get sober I'm there 6 days and uh. now how well are you doing are you.

millionaire I had gotten a buyout offer. that was over two million I did not take. it I should have I should have I had. over a million in inventory um well over. a million in inventory um I'd bought a. 68 GTO restored it with the kids it's uh. we converted it to electronic fuel. injection and it ran like a scalded dog. man had it cammed out it was such a. badass car um how were you a being a dad.

how was I being a dad so my kids had. never at this point never seen me drunk. not once never seen me smoke a cigarette. I'm still coaching t-ball I'm coaching. soccer I'm leading Cub Scouts I don't. sleep much back then I would be good on. four or five hours you know um so I was. like Dad of the damn year not just to my. kids but to other kids in the. neighborhood too like I was doing great. outside looking in you know Aon knew the. reality I was really really struggling. she running five companies yeah you got.

how many kids four kids I had five at. this point five kids M A husband tball. coach Cub. Scouts and going to church every Sunday. and going to church every Sunday at a. massive drinking problem yeah so when. would you fit in the drinking at night. all the time do you think your kids. never saw you drunk or they actually. never saw you drunk they actually never. saw me drunk up at this point they never. did um so when would you do it all the.

time but here's the thing I I I would I. would Converse just like this without. slurring or anything legally. drunk so I I take that back they saw me. drunk they never saw me act drunk like I. I was drinking all the time but they. wouldn't necessarily see me like they'd. never see me with a beer I was drinking. scotch and I was going through two. bottles of macallen 12 a day at this. point and it was getting bad fast so. there were like how's your wife does. your wife know this oh yeah oh yeah and.

she knows it's getting out of hand again. um what's she saying to you like begging. me to go get help begging me to go to. rehab can we please tell your parents. can we please call your parents can we. please tell your parents so hold on. you're telling me your kids never saw. you drunk you could Converse without. slurring you're basically. a high functioning drunk with the same. token you're telling me that Aaron is. begging you to go to rehab cuz it's. getting bad so these are like let me.

explain okay so after the kids after the. kids go to bed there is no more speaking. without slurring I'm blacked out like. plastered after the kids go to bed I. also can't get out of my bed in the. morning without drinking because if I do. I'm puking up bile so I have to have a. drink just to get out of bed but once I. have that first drink I'm just as normal. as I am right now until I have too much. which doesn't usually happen till the. kids go go to bed I do want to clarify.

the only reason the kids never saw me. sloppy is because Aaron shielded them. from a lot of this the woman deserves a. [ __ ] medal like she hid so much of. this which was a double-edged sword. because in a couple years it's going to. catch him really off guard when I start. getting in. trouble but she never let them see that. so they were very sheltered and shielded. from it so even though it was happening. they never saw it. um but I I mean I was pretty D and. you're on. opiates those were off and.

on it the infection came back two or. three. times um 2011 12 and 13 and each time. that it comes back it's going to get. worse the drinking is an immediate. problem because I'm puking up blood. again and so um we finally did tell my. parents my mom came and got me and she. took me to this place in Georgia and uh. I was supposed to stay there for six. weeks the whole thing I'm going to do. medical detox um and stay for Rehab you.

know uh and I've been to plenty of. rehabs already up to this point like I. skipped a few in here by accident um. before Aon this is going to be the first. time I've gone since ER since I had. kids. um six days in ER in calls and the. business is falling apart. nobody's able to run it without me. there um which is 100% my fault I did. not build a business that could exist in. my absence and I knew that and and part.

of it was fear because I'm I was a. control freak and part of it was I was. too busy drinking than teaching somebody. to run it in my absence so I leave. detox I I completed detox I leave. without going to the rehab which I knew. was a bad idea but I also didn't have a. choice. um all right I guess I had a choice I. just made the wrong one I left and went. back to. work and three days later um I walked.

into the ER at bab East puking out blood. talking probably more. slurred um but according to them I set. the T Tennessee ambulatory state record. Tennessee state record for ambulatory. BAC I blew a point for six denying I'd. been. drinking uh and I almost bled to death. jeez um they were very afraid I had. given myself something called esophageal.

varices which is pretty much always. fatal you literally Hemorrhage from your. esophagus from drinking and die I lost a. lot of blood nine days in. ICU. um and. uh I I tried my best to get a handle on. the drinking after that by not just not. drinking I still wasn't going to go to. meetings you know I don't need that. [ __ ]. um the infection came back I mean my. health was absolute trash you know my.

inducible liver enzymes like triple the. upper limits and normal I had some other. blood work way off and so the infection. came back back on the damn pain pills. and Deon has moved back to Maine so my. my connection with the Rocks she is. gone uh. I had an employee that I had recently. hired who was out on bond for drug. charges and uh obviously before I hired. him asked what and why and all that and.

I decided to give this guy a shot then. none of my employees knew how bad things. were with me. um or how bad they had gotten with the. pain pills obviously they knew the. drinking had gotten really bad because I. was passed out in my office and [ __ ] um. but I'd hid the pain pill thing from. them pretty well so as long as they. weren't spelling alcohol they thought. thought everything was good with. Ben I ended up buying pain pills off. this dude. um and it gets like really expensive. like I can't keep sneaking this much.

money out without Aaron. noticing. um and. he he ended up getting me heroin one day. and. um I hate needles which sounds crazy. because I'm covered in tattoos I've. gotten these since being clean. um and. uh the first time he got it I snorted it. and I did not get the feeling I wanted. from it and he shot me.

up and then later that day I shot myself. up and within a week I had a $600 day. heroin. habit he shot you up how did that. conversation go I was like I [ __ ]. hate needles you got to show me how to. do this and he got my hand where I don't. even have veins anymore but I used to. have huge veins and he shot me up. um and so that progressed very very. quickly what did that feel. like uh you want to give you an honest.

answer yeah I felt like getting a hug. from. God like the most peaceful thing I've. ever felt in my entire. life. instantly. instantly. um that void that I always have inside. me that I've been trying to fill since I. was 13 years old that emptiness it was. gone in an. instant it was gone it was warm it just.

it was. Euphoria and I didn't need anything else. after that I I had. arrived and. uh the entire Journey getting to this. point I had been trying to find ways to. change the way I felt. and for the first time in my entire life. I didn't want to change the way I felt. after I hit that I was hooked.

immediately um that was. uh was right in Halloween of. 2013. and Aon knew something was wrong she. knew something was wrong she didn't know. what um. Andrew ended up getting arrested again. and so I had to go meet the dope man to. get my own hair one because I'm. obviously I'm physically addicted I. can't afford to be. sick and that's what took me to South.

Memphis old man stand this old 70 some. oddy old black dude sells heroin in. South Memphis. um and so I'm I'm making you know two. three trips a day out there to buy. dope. um but I kept telling myself like this. is going to be the last time how'd you. meet him Andrew took me to meet him. right before he'd gotten arrested again. so I'd already met Stan now now I'm you. know I'm approved to go to the dope man.

by myself what's the neighborhood like. oh it's Ultra Hood if you've watched any. of my videos online that's that's South. Memphis man. um but this guy's making 600 bucks a day. just off you just off me he was living. large living large. um so just to give you some context on. South Memphis uh the infant mortality. rate is higher than most or many third. world Nations um it's one of the.

deadliest ZIP codes in the state of. Tennessee which is one of the deadliest. cities in America um statistically young. men in South Memphis are and this one. breaks my heart they're more likely to. be dead or incarcerated than they are to. have a job or being in school jeez now I. didn't know any of this when I first. started going out there and and actually. I hated South Memphis for the longest. time because of what it was doing to me. I wasn't looking at what I was doing to. it I'm you just touched on it I'm. pumping that much money a day into the. dope economy out there you know like I I.

have I have harmed that Community with. the amount of money I spent out there. with bad people. um and I kept telling myself like this. is it I'm going to stop and that's. $200,000 a year Stan told somebody he. made 200 Grand and it didn't last year. just off me just off me it didn't last. year last 10 months this time. um I hated myself I hated everything.

about myself I wanted to. die but more than that I wanted to get. sober and be there for my kids and so I. I'd punish myself I had enough money I. could have bought ounces of hairin at a. time you know I was going through like. two three grams a day I could have. bought ounces at a time and instead I'm. making three trips getting a gram at a. time every day like the I can't believe. it took me as long as it did for me to. get pulled over like a white guy driving. you know brand new Tahoe or a brand new.

F150 or a brand new or not brand new but. a 68 GTO multiple times a day like it's. very clear what I'm going out there to. do you know and um but I wouldn't buy a. bunch of once because I kept telling. myself this is it I'm going to quit this. is it I'm going to quit I'm going to. tape her off I'm going to tap her off. this just Insanity took over I. thinking why did you want to quit why. did I want to quit yeah I never wanted. to be on it to begin with that one time. I got that hug from God and I was hooked.

never had that feeling again never felt. that good again but I couldn't stop. doing it but it was taking me away from. my kids because I'm spending an hour and. a half a day or more driving so hold on. hold on so the initial I've never done. heroin the initial. high is like the best ey you could ever. imagine and then it never happens again. never happens again. well you constantly have to increase the. amount of dope you're doing you can get. pretty close to it again or you can get.

it again but it's taking more and more. dope the more dope you're adding like. the chances you're going to kill. yourself keeps climbing you know what I. mean and so I I I got to the point where. I was shooting a gram at a time. sometimes I mean that's like I'm I don't. know how I never ODed you never OD. never I've always had a really weirdly. high tolerance to. things. so well I don't know if I'd say that. drank your gallbladder.

out yeah yeah that I. did but I I wanted to stop because it it. it controlled every aspect of my life I. couldn't even sleep without getting dop. sick did your wife. know well it started in Halloween she. figured it out. end of. June how'd she figure it out she found a. box of syringes in the garage I was not. very good at hiding things she'd known. something was up I mean like our.

business is falling. apart I bounced payroll that's never. happened um I look like I'm I look like. some coming out of concentration camp I. looked like death I weighed like 130 lbs. maybe you. know um and I'm not drinking so she. knows it's not. that she knew something was up she found. that box of rigs that day and lost it on.

me uh I've never seen her that upset in. my whole life and I it just broke my. heart I didn't I didn't ever want it to. come to that you know but it did and uh. the 4th of July she took the kids and. left me. 2014 and I hopped in the GTO and went to. where I go for Comfort South. Memphis and uh I'd waited just to punish. myself until I was good and dope sick I.

wanted myself to suffer I had this sick. self-hatred because of the situation I. created where did she go to her dad's. down. Mississippi and um I'm. going I don't know 70 80 miles an hour. down east Parkway in Memphis and the ran. red. light and I T-Bone an. F350 and. uh. spun and I hit a light pole uh and the.

inside of the car burst into flames um. I'm pinned underneath the steering wheel. my face hit the steering wheel so hard. that my teeth I had to pull my lip off. of my. teeth like they had gone all the way. through it I've got bones sticking out. of my foot and I'm engulfed in. flames uh had a fire extinguisher in the. car for that exact scenario should have. ever happened and I deployed it and. nothing. happened um and I threw it out the. window which I guess alerted somebody.

that was out there that hey there's a a. live person still on that vehicle and uh. this pan Handler that I've been giving. money to for like the last two three. weeks every time I drove by runs over. and gets me out of the. car and uh runs over and gets uh I had. cash in the passenger seat and he. brought it to me like smoking. bills my my my pistol permit and my. debit my USA debit cards were in my. pocket with my driver's license and all. that they. melted like in my wallet they melted I.

did not have a burn on my body wow uh. and nobody else saw this almost dude but. he definitely was there like yeah I've. always had people like I was an angel. I'm like I don't I don't. know because he gave me the money like I. had it in my hand and I started with. bones sticking out of my feet there's. rounds popping off in the back seat of. my car because it's in flames and it was. full of ammo and I'm trying to hobble. down the street to make it to the dope. man's house because I'm I'm like a mile.

away the ambulance gets there they. tackle. me take me to the hosital you're trying. to get heroin still after trying heroin. I'm still dope sick that's look this is. the thing if you've never been dope sick. you don't understand it you will do. literally anything you have to do to. prevent it it is the most terrifying. experience a human being can go through. um both mentally and physically but. especially mentally. um it it's bad it's just it it when I. think about that day I understand women.

who sell their bodies to feed their. addiction I'm trying to walk down the. street with my car in flames and Bones. sticking out of my foot to get my fix. you. know. um I ended up getting a. $35,000 insurance check for the. GTO all the evidence of everything bad. had been doing burned in the car so I. got no trouble that day um I went home.

got another vehicle and I burned that 35. Grand in nine. days one of the ways you know my. business was running into the ground. Aaron and I had a massive Firearms. collection massive you know tons of. awesome stuff some title 2 stuff sub. guns suppressors. and I started ponding my guns so that I. could maintain my habit and try to keep. the business from folding and uh so when. I got that check I went and got a lot of. guns out of Hawk got them.

back and obviously I bought a lot of. drugs too. um jeez Aaron Aaron came back from her. dad's after I toddled the car uh but but. left again because I. wasn't oh I didn't get any better you. know. um and I was trying everything I could. to taper off of of the heroin and uh and. do it on my own and.

um you know going to the firing range is. one of the things I used to like to do. to try to blow off. steam and. so I think it was July. 28th I've burn out of money mostly um. and I go to the warehouse with uh I had. a little fire range behind the warehouse. with or inside the warehouse it was long. um I had a. subgun two suppressors like an AR and an.

AK maybe and maybe a handgun then I went. B off some steam and I waited till I was. dope sick again because I I refused to. buy heroin until I was sick because I'm. trying to taper myself off of it and so. I'm trying to you know it's it's insane. the way I was but in my head and my. [ __ ] up thinking it made sense. and so I'm on my way. home um I went and got. dope and I wouldn't let myself use it. until I made it home that's part of the.

punishment that I was doing to myself. I'm a mile from. home and I get lit up by the. cops and I'm in a beat up pickup truck. with six grams of dope a machine gun and. two silencers. and you would have thought they pulled. over Pablo. Escobar um the traffic sto moves from. this gas station to my house because.

they feel they have CS to search my home. they think I'm selling machine guns I'm. running guns and dope for the cartel one. of the detectives came over and told me. they talked to Fort Campbell and they. know I'm a disgruntled veteran and I. stole all of this what are you [ __ ]. talking about like the receipts from the. shits in my house I'm sick as hell. handcuffed in the back of the car our. little Cove I had a house on the golf. course like outside looking in I was. doing great our little Cove had 30 some. odd vehicles in it from five different. agencies before this is over I had the.

DEA Tennessee Bureau of Investigation. Shelby County Memphis Police and the. ATF I had to showed the ATF how to read. their own paperwork for my form whatever. it was for my tax stamps from the. suppressors and the sub. gun and. um this goes only like 12 hours I mean. it's hot as [ __ ] I'm in the middle of. you know asphalt Cove sitting in a cop. car with no AC handcuffed dopesick. watching them come out of my house. taking my entire life savings in the.

form of firearms from. me one of the guys with the organized. crime unit that was there told me early. on in the day when this happened it's. like if you're telling me the truth and. these are your guns this is your. dope we're going to work something. out and 12 hours later they finally. realized I'm not Pablo Escobar those are. my guns I legally hit every one of them. and I've never been in trouble of my. life so they take me down to this place. off of Shelby Drive in Memphis for.

they're like all right here's the deal. you know we took all the [ __ ] from your. house you're not getting guns back. um 53 Firearms I took from the house uh. you're going to snitch you're going to. go buy drugs and you're going to we're. going to wash everything you're going to. wear a wire or something you're going to. you're going to you're going to give us. some drug compers I was like. sure and sure as [ __ ] they took the. handcuffs off and gave me my keys to my. pickup.

Dr so had no intentions of following. through and snitching on anybody I never. wanted to go to South Memphis again I. get in my truck I crank it and I shut. the door and I feel something and I know. immediately what it is they have left. dope in my. vehicle and so. my decision to never go to South Memphis. get changed right then in there I went. right back to South Memphis I bought. more. dope but I'm not going to use it until I.

get. home it's now 9 10 maybe 11 o'clock at. night I'm in the exact same spot I was. earlier in the day and blue lights are. behind. me I get pulled over twice in the same. day with the same amount of dope. this time they do take me to. jail. um and they hit me with uh I don't even.

remember how many counts it was absurd. like just wild possession with intent to. manufacture sell and distribute for. crack cocaine for. heroin uh six possession of a firearm. dur the commission of a dangerous felony. um all in all there were like 14 felony. camp that they had gotten me on um which. is ridiculous like if I'm actually being. honest because I didn't commit a felony. I wasn't selling drugs there is no. dangerous felony but whatever I had. drugs and guns I'm not supposed to do.

that I know but I think my life's over. at this. point. um they they took me to jail obviously. uh I had to call Aaron obviously she. filed for. divorce I think on her 10th anniversary. while I was in jail which I had that. coming I destroyed that poor woman's. life you know. um they end up uh my dealer old man.

Stan comes and bonds me. out because I had spent so much with him. he's convinced I'm going to continue. to somehow they mixed up paperwork in. jail and they let me. out when they hadn't brought all the. charges on the other case against. me and so I bonded out of jail and. immediately had a felony. warrant for the first traffic stop. apparently they only booked me in on the.

second one and forgot to add the first. one so they add those on and put out a. felony warrant for me and so I go on the. Run. um I moved into. a a trap house with some guys I had. literally just met that night um in. South Memphis what's the Trap House the. trap house is a house where narcotics. and women are bought and sold it's you. know a trap a. spot uh it is the single source of every.

bit of pain and suffering in any. neighborhood to exist in it's hell. that's what it is it's hell I had. nowhere else to go at a warrant I. couldn't go home my wife didn't want. anything to do with me um I had no idea. what my kids knew or didn't know because. like I said we'd hidden all of this from. them Daddy getting arrested is going. to I don't even know how to have that. conversation with them.

um I I go into hiding basically this. dope boy uh that that obviously all the. dope boys in South Memphis knew how much. money I'd been spending and they all. wanted to know me um so I was welcomed. with open arms out there and the one. that ran Melrose Street I I'll actually. say his name because he's dead now. Rodney cotton he used to go by uh. Nam fat boy or hot hot. rod uh he kind of took me in because he. was convinced I was going to teach him.

how to run businesses. um like I don't know what he had in mind. but uh basically put put me to work work. in security at a trap house out. there um which was odd because I'm the. only white guy in the hood and I'm. deciding who can and cannot get into the. Trap. uh this went on for a few. weeks um what did you see inside the. Trap. houses everything you can imagine what.

does that mean um I've witnessed murder. uh I've witnessed attempted rapes I've. witnessed. overdoses. um I've witnessed people. do unimaginable things that even with my. background experience can't wrap my mind. around for a h of dope crack in. particular like. what you won't want to a it if I tell.

you I've seen people do the most debased. dehumanizing things you can ever. imagine because their addiction. commanded them to they have become. complete and total slaves to a. substance and in turn complete and total. slaves to whoever controls that. substance. I didn't know the true depths of human. depravity until I was out there until I. I lived in it and saw. it and all of my Hope and Faith in.

humanity died on that. street my hope for having a future died. on that. street I um I I was going to kill myself. out there I was. interrupted and then ended up in. handcuffs. again how are you in do it uh with a. knife I was just going to cut my own. throat only way I couldn't do it because. I refused to touch heroin after I got. arrested I would not go back to it I was. still smoking crack but I refused to.

touch Hero on um and I was afraid that. if I tried to overdose because that's. once you've shot up heroin there's no. other way to kill yourself it's an. Embrace from God like it's painless way. to go my fear was that because my. tolerance was so high I would try to. kill myself and I wouldn't and I would. end up addicted. again and I would rather die than have. that happen and so I was going to cut my. throat with. Kar how long were you in an out of those.

five years I get this this is you spent. five years in that [ __ ] in trap house in. and out in and out but there my my whole. story is punctuated with highs and lows. where everything looks great I wasn't. homeless for 5 years I wasn't running. from that warrant for 5 years but all in. I was battling South Memphis for 5 years. that run stopped when they found me on. that. warrant. um and you know we were talking about.

God Winks I feel like this was a missed. godwink on on my. behalf but maybe not because if I if I'd. taken it I wouldn't be sitting here with. you. today um veterans court refused to take. my case I did serve long enough to be. eligible for veterans court so even. though I don't get like V benefits I was. eligible for that they wouldn't take my. case because of the gun charges they. were convinced the feds are going to. come after me now I knew that wasn't the. case because I legally owned the guns. and I wasn't actually selling drugs so I.

had faith that Justice would Prevail but. the drug court judge heard about my case. and decided to take a chance on. me uh and he told me that if I would. sign up for his program he would send me. to rehab I need to pay for. it and I jumped at. it um and so. so after spending two months out there. on in the traps that run I was actually. excited I thought you know things are. going to be.

better and he sent me to rehab um I. spent 54 days in there and uh like I was. serious about it I wanted to be clean I. did not want to go back to that life at. all. um I graduated the rehab program and and. got off to a fairly good start on drug. court I think I got. released back into the Free. World early.

November and um I made contact with Aon. you know I wanted to get back in the. kids lives and I mean because this just. hit them completely out of the blue like. they didn't see any of this coming you. know um so from July to November there. had been very minimal interaction with. my kids they didn't know what the [ __ ]. was going on. or I don't know what they knew let's put. it that way um and you know Aon had. filed for divorce her attorney told her. it would help her if she got a. restraining order against.

me um and so she did that and they. served me with it in the middle of drug. court in front of everybody on my. birthday like that was humiliating. mostly because I've never laid a finger. on her I've never threatened any of them. I've never you know made her be afraid. of me or the kids or any of that but she. had to attest that I've done all of. those things on this piece of. paper so I did what any good addict. would do and I would and got high over. that now when they released me from.

rehab they court ordered me into reos. which is a halfway house in Memphis. sober spelled. backwards and one of the biggest rules. in a sober living house is you can't get. high and I did that and so I knew I was. about to go back to jail so right back. to South Memphis I went I just went on. the. Run. um and then I actually had a. conversation with Aaron that her. attorney did that without her knowledge.

and or something I don't remember what. it was and I started realizing like how. bad I [ __ ] up by going on the run and. getting high again I went and turn. myself in and sure enough I mean. obviously I went to jail you know uh but. the drug court judge is he's going to. give me another chance like he sees this. a lot he expected it blah blah blah I. was banned from that halfway house. um and they were like we're just going. to leave you in jail till we figure out. what to do with you CU you can't go home. uh you can't go back to the halfway.

house you we don't know what to do with. you and so I spent my birthday or not my. birthday I spent Thanksgiving in. jail they kept me God they probably kept. me a month that time with no bond like. there's no hope of getting out you get. out when the judge says you can get out. and I'm pissed the judge off at this. point because he took a chance me even. though he expected it to happen he's mad. um they uh they finally let me out. December 17th and I'll never forget this. that day in court because the jail backs.

up to the courthouse it's literally like. underneath the court kind of um so they. took me into the courtroom from jail uh. and this guy named Brian Owens comes up. to me and asks me he's like you tired of. living like this dude I was like yeah. I'm I'm really tired of living like this. and I he he looked me in the eye for a. minute he's like you know you don't have. to and I don't know why that that simple. yet incredibly profound statement hit me. like a ton of bricks dude like I started.

balling like in the middle of the Court. like it was it was weird you know but it. just hit me so because I could tell by. the way he said it this guy that I'm I'm. just now meeting for the first time in. the way he said that I could tell he's. been where I was he he literally where I. was I come to find out later he had been. standing on the other side of that wall. when years ago as a a client in drug. court and today he works for that court. but I could tell this guy knew something. he knew a way out of this you know and.

uh he told me that I I was he was going. to get me out of jail that day and then. he wanted me to meet him at a Narcotics. Anonymous meeting that night now I'd. been to na back in California but I just. used it as a place to pick up chicks. like I didn't pay any attention. but I I would do whatever I had to do to. to get Brian to get me out of. jail um and I would do whatever I had to. do to not live that way.

anymore and I meant it like with every. fiber of my being I meant that [ __ ] I. was dead set on I'm I'm going to do. this and so he got me out of jail um I. found out after I left the jail that day. that the judge was dead serious when he. said I can't go home and I can't go to. the halfway house but they forgot to. figure out what to do with me so I had. to figure that out which I'm sure was. 100% intentional right they wanted to.

see what I was going to do so now I'm. I'm a free man and it's the middle of. December right before Christmas and I. have nowhere to go I'm on the. streets am i g to [ __ ] up or am I going. to do right and I think that's what they. were trying to figure out and I did. right I. I got with my dad went got into an. extended stay motel I went to an NA. meeting first time I ever saw. her. um and uh I was I was serious about.

doing it and and I decided I wanted. to try to fix things with Aon she's a. mother of five of my kids and divorcing. her was something I could not wrap my. mind around no matter how bad she wanted. it you know she spent all those years. thinking I was the one for her knowing. the problems that I had and here we are. with the problems front center what are. we going to do I had that conversation. with her we decided to. reconcile and so I think it was. Christmas Eve of 2014 I moved back into.

the house with her and the. kids in hindsight it's a terrible. idea did you blame her for the. restraining order were you upset about. that I I was upset about it it was very. I was hurt more than anything um I. didn't blame her for the relapse I I. will never blame anybody else for that. um you know I make my own decisions and. when I choose to go get high about. something that's on me not them um when. we went to court for the restraining.

work because the way they do these. things they'll issue it just based on. the word of the woman and and that's. good I'm glad they do that uh and then. you have a hearing about it to decide if. it's going to stand or get tossed out. and when we sat down in the courtroom. they start asking airing all these. questions like when did Mr Owen strike. you when did he do this and she's like. no no none of that ever happened and the. judge is basically well then you can't. have a restraining order what are we. doing and so it just got like what I was. afraid of was that Aron was going to lie.

and say I had you know put my hands on. or something which nothing like that. ever happened in that. marriage were you sharing needles no no. never not once in fact I this is one of. the reasons I was able to hide it so. well I was the worst person I knew I. didn't have friends do you think you put. your family in danger yeah I definitely. put them in danger there's no doubt. about that so how could you blame her I. don't yeah I don't blame her at all um.

in fact hindsight being 2020 I wish she. hadn't let me move back in you know I I. I had no business being around my kids. right then at all or her you know I. didn't deserve to be sleeping in that. house that we had worked to pay for. together. yeah um a thousand things could have. gone. wrong something must still went wrong.

yeah yeah uh I don't handle guilt. well never have my drink at guilt I. always. have and uh I don't think things were. meant to work out to me. there uh too much damage. done. um and it was it was a terrifying thing. to try to accept that because you.

start you start trying to think how how. how am I going to raise a family with. her you know with the exception of this. 10mon period All Things Considered I've. been a pretty stellar. dad you know outside looking in you know. now you you know that that's not true. because you've heard all the [ __ ] up. stuff that I was doing but I was still. telling myself the lie that I wanted the. world to see and I'm trying to figure. out how am I going to raise these kids.

uh in a broken home now uh what's going. to happen with my cases I was looking at. a lot of pris time if if I [ __ ] up. drug. court. um and uh and so much damage had been. done to the relationship with Aon and I. and. uh I just I don't think there was any. fixing. it I don't think there. was what happened I moved out in.

February and uh I think it was. February stayed clean I was working. program got a sponsor started working. steps was taking recovery seriously like. very seriously so you weren't drinking. no well so drug court from the day I. signed a drug court they they drug test. you randomly and one of the tests they. do now is called an ethanol glucoronide. test that tests for alcohol metabolites. going back 80 hours and thank God they. do because if they weren't doing that.

I'd have been drinking like a. [ __ ] thinking I'm going to cheat. the test you know so yeah I stayed sober. um from. November God almost until the next. November a whole lot happened in that. Gap I know everybody out there has to. be just as frustrated as I am when it. comes to the BS and the rhetoric that. the main stream media continuously tries. to force feed us and I also know how.

frustrating it can be to try to find. some type of a reliable news source it's. getting really hard to find the truth. and what's going on in the country and. in the world and so one thing we've done. here at Shan Ryan Show is we are. developing our. newsletter in the the first contributor. to the newsletter that we have is a. woman former CIA targeter some of you. may know her as Sarah Adams call sign. super bad she's made two different. appearances here on the Shawn Ryan Show.

and some of the stuff that she has. uncovered and broke on this show is just. absolutely. mindblowing and so I've asked her if she. would contribute to the newsletter and. give us a weekly intelligence brief so. it's going to be all things terrorists. how terrorists are coming up through the. southern border how they're entering the. country how they're traveling what these. different terrorist organizations. throughout the world are up to and. here's the best part the newsletter is.

actually free we're not going to spam. you it's about one newsletter a week. maybe two if we release two shows the. only other thing that's going to be in. there besides the Intel brief is if we. have a new product or something like. that. but like I said it's a free CIA. intelligence brief sign up links in the. description or in the comments we'll see. you in the. newsletter all right Ben we're back from.

the break so we are. at Aaron Aaron yep Aaron left with the. kids Aaron left with the kids this is. like the end of. 2014 um we decided to reconcile and so. we hold on let me recap cuz we' had. about an hour break there for lunch so. you moved in Christmas time yes now it's. February Aaron takes off you did not. start drinking again what happened why'd.

she leave so actually I left you left I. left um and I think it was February. March um I just realized. that well I been trying to avoid this. cuz I only want to put my business out. there but it's unavoidable so Aaron had. an affair right and and I knew this when. I moved back in in December and it. happened while I was in jail and if I'm. being completely honest I can't blame. her I mean I ran her life into the. ground I had not physically touched her. in a year you know everything was. falling apart and she didn't think there.

was any chance we were ever going to. work out anyway so I don't blame her for. that but it is part of what played into. my decision to move out um did you ever. have infidelity with her no no through. all that [ __ ] through all that [ __ ] I. did not wow would not have expected that. well I think she expected it either but. it is the reality um so you couldn't. forgive her for that I thought I could. but no I I definitely could not I. definitely could not um and so how' you.

find. out uh I just knew and I finally she. admitted it just part of me knew you. know something something seemed off did. you know him oh yeah friend employee an. employee yeah are they still together oh. God no. I don't even know if they ever even saw. each other. again yeah. um so in the middle of all. this. um we'll be back up to December well.

hold on how did you handle. that cuz you're sober I'm sober. and uh well I'm just going to own it um. I was still a manipulative ass at the. time and the only thing standing in. between me and living in my home with my. children was the judge telling me she. didn't want me there so the way I. handled it. was basically to tell her look we can. work through this you just got to let me. come home you know and part of me so you.

knew before you went home I knew before. I went home that that was the ammo I. used to get her to tell the judge to let. me come back to my house now part of. that was necessity I have to have a. place to live I could this Extended Stay. wasn't going to work I missed my kids I. was sober I wanted to rebuild my life. and I wanted to build my business and. fix my marriage I did genuinely want all. of those things did you still love her. before you moved back in yeah yeah yeah. I mean I've known this woman since I was. 12 she birthed yeah like 100% look like.

a little uncertainty. there it was different it was a. different kind of love you know like i'. I've still got love in my heart for. Aaron to this day and I always will but. not the kind that is required to be. married to someone. you know what I mean mhm. um and. so I moved back in and and my. understanding was that all the [ __ ]. that come out from either of our side.

had come out and it was all out in the. open. um and I get a phone call New Year's Eve. from my landlord or my landlord's. attorney now keep in mind I haven't paid. a rent on my warehouse in 6 months. because I was too busy spending my money. on heroin or being in jail or running. from warrants to handle things so my. understanding was that my warehouse had. been seized and my assets and belongings. of that warehouse no longer belong to. me uh and Aon confirmed that was the.

case well I get this phone called New. Year's Eve from my landlord's attorney. asking me um if we had decided not to. get my inventory out of the warehouse. now keep in mind I had over a million. dollars in inventory in this. Warehouse so come to find out um. he had not seized any of my stuff and. just wanted me to move my business out. and let him have his Warehouse back. problem was I had until midnight New. Year's Eve of. 2014 and I didn't find this out until.

the day of my parents and my wife had. known for months that this was the case. and that my business was not done it was. in fact sitting there waiting on me to. pick it up and move it somewhere else. and simply turn it back on I went. ballistic um. um you know smashed my phone uh I may. have broken my hand punching a brick. wall I mean I snap dude that was it like. from that point.

forward I I have accepted this is not. there's too much resentment couple that. with the fact that I don't even know how. I'm going to deal with with the. infidelity like it's I just can't do. this all right I didn't know what to do. because I still had to have a place to. live um and so I just tried to tough it. out man I spent a lot of time with my. kids. um what did you do with your kids when. when you went back you said you spent a.

lot of time with your kids I spent a. yeah so there's a part what was that. like um i' been rebuilding bonds dude. kids are resilient how old are your kids. at this point oh they were I want to say. 910 let's see this would have been. December 2014 so Jacob would have been. nine Jackson would have been 10 Lily and. the twins were 3 three and four almost. four four and. five um we just kind of picked up right. back where left off you know watching.

nature shows together going hiking uh. there's a IH Park I mean was there a lot. of relationship you had to rebuild trust. and the fact that you're going to be. there and it was dicey for a few days. that's it that was it because when I was. living in that Extended Stay eron could. tell that something had changed in me. and that I was trying to stay clean and. the kids came and stayed with me some of. that extended the St so we had gotten. most of the real rough part out of the. way um I've always been very close to my. kids so even though what was the rough.

part just the uncomfortability like them. staying with me and crying at bedtime W. to go see mommy you know I bet they had. a lot of questions they really didn't. they really didn't they they didn't want. to know why you were in there in the. Extended Stay yeah well they did that. that that was the rough part was. explaining to him Mommy and Daddy are. getting divorced you know and that was. like just the hardest thing I've ever. had to tell my kids did they have. any inclination that I mean you were.

gone for I think you said 10 months I. was I was addicted to heroin for 10. months before the arrest I was home for. most of that I would make my runs to the. you know dope track get my dope but then. you were living at the Trap houses. so that wasn't 10 months that was four. months I was out there this run in the. traps and so I don't really know how to. explain it. um we just kind of picked right up where.

we left off it it was. strange how did you tell your kids. you're getting. divorced I didn't Aon. did and then Christmas Eve we told him. never mind we're not like Merry. Christmas and uh. you know we had a real happy Christmas. and everything was. great um but the New Year's Eve came and. I found that out about the business and. it just the totality it was too much and. I also knew that like as far as my part.

went like I'm not saying she did all the. damage I'd done tons damage this was all. my fault to begin with so I owned that. and and I knew in the back of my head. that she might think she can get over. all this but she's never going to trust. me again I have destroyed our lives our. life savings invested in Firearms. collection has been stolen by the police. I'll never get them back that one I I. actually sued the state of Tennessee. trying to get those back um lost because. I took too long to file it but you know. the business we had poured Blood Sweat. and Tears into that my kids had.

sacrificed hours and hours of time with. me I ran that into the ground like so. I'm not sitting here trying to say it's. because of the infidelity it's because. of the warehouse it was the totality of. all of these things I we we destroyed. that. marriage um. and. so I spent a lot of time with the kids. January and February um and part of that. was because I wanted to spend time with. my kids part of it's because I want to. get the [ __ ] away from the house I. wanted to be away from her I was I was. so mad and you know I don't know if.

you've ever done 12-step recovery but in. the rooms they always say resentment are. the number one offender resentment is. the most common thing that sends people. back on a a relapse I was taking my. recovery pretty seriously at this point. in time so I was trying to avoid. resentments which meant avoiding her in. the house um. so we spent a lot of time out in the. woods a lot of time fishing as Mark. trolled. around a lot of time hiking and um I. started hanging out with uh this other. guy in drug court named Thomas Who Loved.

fishing too and we we'd go fishing all. the time we go shooting together his. parents lived on a bunch of land and you. know before long I had opened up to. Thomas about what was going on at home. and he's like bro just come stay up here. man and so I was kicking that idea. around about going to stay with thas. um cuz he lived up in Millington near. the Navy base um we were in Lakeland. which is a suburb of Memphis at the time. in the house that I bought when I got. the job of fer so we hadn't moved. um and my my other best friend at the.

time was this little kid named Brandon. Kelly I call him a kid he had some ocrm. problems and literally looked like he. was a child like 14 years old he was. really 25 but I met him in jail um I. actually met him and Thomas both in jail. all three of us are on drug Court um and. so we just started hanging out a bunch. and then you know getting into early. spring Narcotics Anonymous does a lot of. functions or they'll do outings like. events where just people in recovery can.

go hang out at things that normally. happen in Memphis it's just a group of. people that aren't doing drugs you know. goes to these things and so I started. hanging out with those uh with that. crowd that's going to the stuff all. around. Memphis and um I had found a an in a. home group with Brandon Kelly it was his. home group and that's where I met Jess. um I had I'd actually met her back in. January at uh that Brian Owens guy uh. his wife or girlfriend at the time was.

celebrating her sober birthday and I met. Jess at that birthday but we didn't. really talk much like we played Trivia. Crack back and forth you know and texted. a little bit but nothing weird um but. like I can tell like she's somebody I. enjoy spending time around and uh so. when the event picked back up in Spring. you know I found myself around her more. and more. um and then one day she invited me and. her boyfriend at the time to go to. Quinton Tarantino movie Fest they were.

having to drivein and uh I went and he. know showed uh and we watch like four or. five Clinton Tarantino movies and then. the next day she invites me to go. fishing with her and I was like well. hell yeah you know you know what I'm. thinking. out at Shelby Forest in Mississippi. River middle of nowhere I get out there. not only does she not have fishing rods. she has brought her 10-year-old daughter. with her I was like oh God you know what. the hell's happening.

so as an aside to this day I have not. gone fishing with Jess to this day we're. going to fix that at some point but we. ended up hiking around Shelby Forest and. this is weird because I've lived in. Memphis for almost Jess what's going on. here. real in she was fishing the whole time. you hear that she was and it worked it. worked um I never knew Shelby far. existed I've been in Memphis 10 years. and I never saw this place as much as I.

love the outt doors it was mind-blowing. to me it's this huge like hundreds of. Acres of woods and hills and mountains. and lakes and it's on the Mississippi so. we je me Jess and her daughter who was. 10 I'm meeting for the first time are. out there hiking for the entire day. hours catching I caught a a a cot water. moas like blew her mind you know uh. catching turtles like it was just we had. a [ __ ] blast out there and and I. didn't want it to stop I didn't want it. to stop I had not been that happy in the.

company of another human being and as. long as I could remember like I finally. felt the connection with somebody and. this was just as purely as friends but. from that day forward and that was I do. remember the date it was April 20th uh. of 2015 just and I became inseparable. wherever I went she went wherever she. went I went um and like it just people. were sted calling us the na power coup. we're not even together I'm still. married you know but I realized because.

of the way I felt around her that I my. biggest fear leaving Aaron will I ever. have anybody that I can be comtable. around again will anybody put up with me. because well we've been talking for. several hours you know I'm kind of a lot. to deal with right. so I had this fear that that I wouldn't. find love again and I've got a. terrifying fear of being alone too so I. wasn't convinced like Jess is who I'm. going to go be in love with it just. convinced me that I am able to be happy. in the presence of somebody else and so.

when I decided I was going to move out. and move in with Thomas and take him up. on that offer Jess went with me now. we're still just friends you know we're. literally sleeping in the same bed and. still just friends um which I know. sounds crazy I tried to kiss her one. time she. cried that was. interesting the next day she kissed me. and then you know from there on things. are physical but this is like months. went in that Gap so then you know I I.

told Aon like let's go ahead and do this. divorce um I'm moving on um which is. what she had told me to do to begin with. and so she was like okay neither of us. wanted it but it's what needs to happen. that kind of. thing and um Jess and I pretty much. moved into Thomas's house and started. building the life together uh like we. were going to start brush fire and Black. Rifle and and retch in a garage behind. his house we're going to start the. businesses back over and we did we like.

we actually did and we're running Eon. business out of his garage July I think. comes around and you know Jess had met. all the kids at this point um all the. kids love her uh her daughter loved me. um now we haven't told Aon that we're an. item and so that was a big landmine we. were waiting on and it ended about like. you can imagine it would when actually I. don't know how it would land I mean you. guys are divorced. so well we're not divorced yet adct.

we're not divorced yet I mean there's a. lot of history there there is a lot so I. could I could see it being a. relief well I mean there's got to be a. lot of weight being your spouse through. that time and I make terrible decisions. around okay all right so I'm just going. to preface that all right we've come a. long way since then I've grown a lot as. a human being I was still sleeping with. her and so when she found out I was. sleeping with Jess she sat Jess down and.

said hey just so you're aware I'm still. sleeping with him too and Jess acted. like she didn't care but in reality it. rior guts out. um time out. let's switch. seeds I love this I love. this oh okay Jess welcome to the show.

thank you so couple questions before we. get into the the sleeping debacle here. why' you cry when he tried to C. you I honestly have no idea I think I. was um. I'm not very big on physical affection I. guess I know that sounds weird uh my. family is like my dad's part is Japanese. so I wasn't raised with a whole lot of. physical affection and I think it caught.

me off guard and I wasn't quite sure if. I wanted it or not because I knew we had. a wife and like I knew he had five kids. and I was like I don't know I don't know. if I want five kids and I I I didn't. know what I wanted at that point. you're a former addict too. yes how long have you been. silver uh a little more than Ben it's. like five and a half years uh my clean. date is June 1st.

2019 what did you see in Ben that made. you fall in love with. him were you aware of his past um I. wasn't aware of all of it uh but you I. had my own past to so I wasn't totally. worried about that I think what really. attracted me to him was I love nature. and I love. music and and I love smart people. because I've always wanted to be like.

really smart and I don't really see. myself like that but he was and like as. you've heard in his story he's extremely. intelligent and it's very hard to find. somebody that is that intelligent and. nerd likee who also listens to metal and. you know likes nature and hiking and I. found all of that and Ben Andy was funny. he made me laugh like if you can make me. laugh that's that's a big. plus is there. a how do I say.

this is there a certain level of. comfortability knowing that person that. you're falling in love with is is also. an. addict wow that's a that's a good. question there there was a little I was. comfortable in knowing that I wouldn't. be judged for who I was and I think. there was comfortability there because I. was I was raised by an addict like my. mom's a crack addict was um so I but at.

the same time I know. how how bad it can get how much of a. train wreck all of that can turn into so. it was it was comforting knowing that I. had somebody that could understand me. but it was is also terrifying at the. same time I. mean reason I'm asking I didn't I mean. not my addictions weren't like these but. um you know my wife is going to be 16. years sober this year that's awesome.

and we kind of talked about my Coke. addiction drinking benzo opiates all. that. [ __ ] when I met her I'd found out you. know that she was sober because CU she. wouldn't have a drink at dinner and I. remember the. first I remember when it hit me I had. asked her I. said I hate it when people ask me what.

my hobbies are because I don't have any. [ __ ] Hobbies other than. work drugs booze and. women and I just asked. her how did she find what her new. hobbies were and and she kind of went on. and told me you know like. well that's a tough question and and uh. it takes some time and and she was so. transparent I just knew what we had was. real and.

that I didn't I didn't have to hide. anything I could be fully transparent. with somebody and that's probably the. first time in my life I could do that is. that. uh that's yeah kind of how it works yeah. pretty much yeah. it's and and it was the same thing with. Ben like I was able to be completely. transparent and I'm a very open book. anyway but there's certain things that I. won't but with him I I just it was like.

we were just connected instantly like I. just knew that's who I was supposed to. be with with for the rest of my life so. what happened when you found out he was. sleeping with Aron. still he was actually blackout drunk at. that point and we this was like right. into the first of our relationship so I. didn't know what to do I'm newly clean. at this time first time since I was. 13 and I didn't want to mess that up I. wasn't really sure what I was supposed.

to be doing with him blackout drunk and. I didn't know he had been drinking at. this point I had found um like a vodka. bottle in the truck like I was going to. the store and found this came back home. confronted him about it and if you know. Ben like if he's drunk he he will never. admit it he'll be slurring and still not. admitting that he drank so I called. Aaron once it got so bad that he was. blackout drunk and he wouldn't wake up. and I was I was freaking out so I called. Aaron cuz she had moved into her own.

place at this point I was like please. come to the house I don't know what to. do with him because she's been married. you know she's been with him for so long. she knew how to deal with this so she. came over and we're smoking a cigarette. outside and she's like just you know or. she said are you sleeping with Ben she's. like I know you're sleeping together in. the same bed I mean are you sleeping. with. Ben and I just felt this weight because. I didn't want to say yes uh and but I.

knew it was better to tell the truth I. was like yes we are sleeping together. she's like oh cuz he's sleeping with me. too and dude I like every just. everything in me got ripped out like I I. felt like I was going to. die and thing about me I'll never let. anybody know if I'm hurt like I got this. this protection wall and I was like ah. guys suck and that's all I said like I.

just I just totally. nonchalant I did not let her know bued. me in the least but inside I was [ __ ]. dying. and you know we go back into Ben and she. checks on him and I'm living in her. house in their house at this point and. you know she's got the kids in her own. little apartment and she leaves she's. like he's going to be fine let him sleep. it. off and that was it and she left and it.

was just so I'm like sitting there and I. stay up all night because I'm afraid. it's going to die on me I'm afraid. something bad's going to happen um. because my my mom had overdosed and and. we thought she was asleep and she had. she was actually dead so I to this day I. still have a horrible fear of your mom. overdosed yes you found your mom dead I. I was two houses down and my sister came. and got me and was like Mom's dead so I. ran over the two houses away and saw her.

and she they had had her on the floor at. that point but but ever since then I was. terrified when I see people sleeping for. too long um so I was afraid he was going. to die on me so I I literally stayed up. all. night mad as [ __ ] at him like I wanted. to kill him but at the same time I loved. him so much that I just I just sat up. and watched him all night like I'm I'm. sure it was sobbing half of the night. because I couldn't believe that he had. been cheating on me with his wife I mean.

like how bad does that sound it was a it. was a bad time how did you confront. him so um the next day when he finally. came to and he drinks so much that even. when he comes to he's still kind of. drunk I was like so I had a conversation. with Aaron and he wasn't expecting what. I said I was like she said y'all are. still sleeping together and I think. he he denied it I think for a good.

little bit until I was like dude I mean. come on she's her wife it's I understand. I really didn't understand because I. I've. never I've never understood infidelity I. don't I don't at all um so it really. hurt and it hurt that he was denying it. and I think I finally just came out just. [ __ ] say it just [ __ ] tell me what. happened and he admitted it and um you. know like Aaron was texting him just. non-stop about what uh about us um was.

there jealousy oh I'm sure there was I. mean you know he's been her person since. they were 12 and and now this this junky. [ __ ] comes in this the picture and just. takes him away you know so I'm I'm. there's a lot of hatred there's a lot of. animosity and now I'm living in her. house even which that was the wrong. thing to do that was that was very bad. judgment on our part and uh yeah so.

she's I mean they're still married at. this point they don't get actually. legally divorced till like a year later. so maybe even two years. later so it was there was a lot of anger. I'm sorry my mouth is so dry right. now so how did you I mean where did it. go from there how did you how did you. get over. that I it took well and this will go. into Ben story a little bit there's.

another woman in the mix and this one. was way [ __ ] worse than Aaron so now. so then all my anger went from Aaron to. this other girl so uh and you know I. understood he was with Aaron for for. years they were married you know they'd. been friends since they were. 12 I was just some chick he met in na so. I even though I was very angry that he. lied about it and that he wasn't.

forthcoming in our relationship I I did. understand it I got it this other chick. though that was who was the next. one. um funny enough it was another girl that. he met in na. b b was just jumping for a little while. there just us three but there was a. point in time just us. [Laughter]. three hey man there there was a point.

where it was all three of us at one time. like he was seeing her he was seeing me. he was seeing this other chick. and I actually found out about the other. chick after he goes to jail I hear a. knock at the door I I had found out that. I'm pregnant with Ben's kid like 6 weeks. before this and Ben goes to jail he had. had another relapse I he knock at the. door and I open it there's nobody there. but there's a like this manila envelope. about this big and I open it I was like.

what the [ __ ] is this I thought. someone's trying to sell some [ __ ] so I. open it and it's just Pages pages of. emails of him and this other chick and. on the front of the envelope it says hi. my name is Jeremy. you I believe that you would like to. know that your boyfriend is [ __ ] my. wife and that's what it says on the. front so now I'm going through these. emails I'm pregnant with his kid and. he's in jail for a relapse I'm reading.

all these emails like some of them. runchy as [ __ ] like this was a nasty. [ __ ] and I just and then all my. aggression kind of leaves from the. errand thing and now I just want to kill. this [ __ ] and kill him so it was it was. a bad Whirlwind for a minute there why. did you why did. you why did you stay with. them well one I was. pregnant so um I remember he called from.

jail and this is before he even knew. that I knew anything and I had. threatened to have an abortion so I was. like well you're [ __ ] Aaron you're. [ __ ] this chick why would I keep this. child like why would we start a family. together I thought you loved me and. you know clearly I'm just like sobbing. on the phone and he's denying it at. first and I read him some of the emails. he can't deny it anymore. and I just I loved him I really had just.

such a deep amount of love for him that. I just I was like maybe we can work. through it and I had seen my mom and my. dad work through insurmountable type of. the things that they have gone through. like my dad was not an adct alcoholic. nothing my mom was and the things that I. had seen them work through and make it. through I guess that. was that was my model that I lived by. that I that I went by and I was just. like you know people can work things out.

of course right then I wanted to kill. him I wanted to slit his throat right. then but you know later on I started. thinking about it and I was like we're. gonna have a kid together and I wanted. to I knew I love him I I I knew he was. the one. that God made for me I knew I was. supposed to be with him and I was like. I'm just going to make it work we're. going to make something work I mean I'm. not saying it made the wrong decision. you guys obviously seem very happy today. and you're very successful in what you. guys are doing together but I mean.

weren't you worried about you know with. his history I was terrified I was. absolutely terrified weren't you weren't. you worried. about not just being Hur more. but subjecting your daughter to this how. old was your daughter yeah so she was 10. um his oldest was 10 and my oldest is 10. so and the kids got along grade too so I. but I I was terrified about I wasn't too.

worried about Maddie um he was so good. with kids so he's he's really good with. Maddie is my oldest and he was so good. to. her I had never seen a. Maddie's father is an addict as well and. he was not a good father he was not a. good man very he was a good man but he. the addiction took over and there's a. lot of bad stuff that Maddie had to. endure so when Ben came into the picture.

there was uh there was a happiness there. like he was actually a father to her and. she loved him. and I wasn't so much worried about. Maddie I was worried about getting hurt. again I was worried about the trust. issue um because I knew I would never be. able to trust him again and that that. was. actually the problem for for years I. didn't trust him and actually because. that girl was someone that he met in Na. and we knew everybody like everybody.

knew us as the na power couple you know. so when everybody found out that he. cheated on me with another [ __ ] from na. like I was mortified did you know her I. I had never met her. luckily what about your own itions I. mean sober for less than a year at this. point yes or I had just graduated for. graduated I had just um gotten a year. clean I believe like probably a month. before this happened so I was one year.

clean first year i' had clean since I. was 13 years old were you concerned that. this would trigger your own addictions. again absolutely. yeah and did it um so I didn't go back. to heroin but I remember the night that. I found out I downed a bottle of Nyquil. knowing I was pregnant and knowing that. it might hurt my child I just wanted to. not be alive at that. point and addicts are selfish and even.

though I had a year clean I was still. very much a selfish addict and I got. ball and NyQuil and and and half of me. didn't want to keep this baby like half. of me I was like maybe maybe it's just. better if I'm just going to drink this. bottle on NyQuil and let nature take its. course and he was in jail anyway nobody. could stop me and like when I found out. I called Thomas Thomas denied it I. called Brian Owens Brian Owens says he. didn't know anything about it I later.

find out that. like all the guys knew they you know the. guy code you don't say anything and and. I don't have girlfriends I don't like. women they don't like me all my friends. were guys so Not only was I betrayed by. him I was betrayed by all of our friends. and that's how I felt. so like I just felt like the whole world. had [ __ ] on me and I just just down that. bottle of Nyquil and fell asleep but I. didn't do anything after that like I. woke up and I was like what the [ __ ] did.

I just do and and that was it I was good. after that I didn't do any drugs or. anything what about the manipulation I. mean my best friend died of heroine. worked with them uh was seal worked with. him at se I've talked about him a bunch. of times on this show but. um he could be very manipulative and was. an extremely intelligent. person and I've been around a lot of.

addiction um you know injectables all. all the stuff and it seems like the. worst they get the more manipulative. they get and. so when you found them drinking when you. found him lying about who he's sleeping. with there's more than one I. mean is. that I'm sure you're manipulative too. you know at least in your past and so I.

mean do you guys realize how do you even. realize that you're manipulating. people or is it just come. sometimes um of course I had a great. lesson in manipulation because my mom. was on crack and that's what crack is do. so I had a very early on you know she. taught me how to steal you know stuff. like that so I that's that's natural for. me it was normal um which actually. helped because I could see through his. [ __ ] a lot um because I could just.

see things that I saw in my mom and um I. really I I tried so hard to not be like. my mom that I tried not to manipulate. people I tried to do the opposite even. though I was an addict I would I would. try not to to do stuff like that even. though you know in the end I was. full-blown crackhead and it did happen. but especially with Ben too he's so. intelligent it's so easy for him to. manipulate people um and I'm sure there.

were times when we were manipulating. that we didn't even think of it like. that were you concerned that he was. manipulating. you I mean yeah there there was. definitely concern in that um and and I. knew he was you know because he was like. what you know you're going to have the. baby and you know he would bring all. these things up that I didn't have a. very happy childhood you know obviously. from what I just told you but he did he. did have a perfect childhood.

and I think he and he kept throwing out. there you know we can do this and we can. have this baby and we can get married. and you see I make money we can have a. big house and I see you work your ass. off we can do this we can do this. together and I think that was his way of. I guess manipulating me into staying and. and working it out and at the time I. wanted to slit his throat but I'm very. happy that I did stay and and I'm glad. that that little manipulation did stick. a little bit how long did it take for.

you to get over all this. and 100% trust 100% trust. probably when we moved to Georgia. um I think I think I went to Georgia. June 1st 2019 my first day clean and I. think that's when I just let everything. go up until that point like I would. still think of the emails and like the. thought of some things I'd want to kill. him in his sleep and I would actually.

think about it sometimes but once we. moved away from Memphis and like. literally had to leave everything behind. with just the clothes on our backs and a. $700 truck with stolen. plates I was like okay I I really am. starting my life over with this man and. I can't I have to forgive and and I've. learned this my whole life you know God. teaches forgiveness and I knew that if I. was going to continue my life with him I.

would have to forgive him before before. God would allow anything good to happen. I was going to have to forgive him and. so I just I just decided it's it's time. it's time to forgive him and and that. was. it why did you guys move to. Atlanta we moved to um well it's like an. hour north of Atlanta It's a little city. called coming and well we moved to stay. alive um that was at the. very the worst part of our addiction.

right then and we knew if we didn't. leave Memphis if we didn't leave right. at that minute we were going to die he. actually left um a week before I did I. didn't know if I was ready yet and if. you leave or you say You're going to. stop doing drugs before you're ready. it's not going to stick you're so wait a. minute so there was more after the. nyquel HM there was more after the. NyQuil oh yeah yeah yeah sorry that I. meant until he got back until we. relapsed for the first time you know.

together oh and also like I was pregnant. when all of this happened once I had my. child I always have to have C-sections. so they put me on pain pills I never got. off of them I just kept taking them. I had so much resentment and hatred for. him um that I just stayed on pain pills. and like three weeks after I had James. our first um I get a call from Shelby.

County that he's in jail and he got. caught with crack right in front of the. trap house like 3 weeks after my. c-section. like I could barely move you know I was. breastfeeding had this huge ass scar I. was an asthmatic so I was dealing with. an asthma attack at the same time so all. of that just I never stopped taking my. pills I was like [ __ ] it he's going to. go get high I'm going to stay high and. so I just kept taking pain pills so you.

didn't relapse together we did later and. it was bad um and we we tried to keep. each other sane and good there would be. periods I I tell everybody it's just. like a roller coaster I would be high he. would be clean or he would be drunk and. then I would finally be okay and. then he started getting and this is like. you know years in the making um we get. thrown out of him and Aaron's house um. they foreclose on it we end up getting a.

much bigger house and uh I'm a. workaholic just like him I'm like a. machine I don't talk I just work so we. were making money just just swimming in. money and the whole time he's buying my. pills because obviously the doctor cut. me off you know I don't need C-section. pills anymore and uh so I'm like you. know I'm I'm getting sick if I don't. have these pills and I'm getting them. from my sister I'm getting them from. anybody I can and every once in a while.

in Memphis there will be a drought and. you can't find pills and I was so sick. and he can't stand to see me sick so he. was like we both know cuz I was on her. room before I even met him we know if. you can't find pills you go get heroin. and it's a lot cheaper to begin with. anyway so he went and got me heroin I. think that lasted about a week or two. that I was just doing no probably about. a week a week at most and he was like. you know what [ __ ] it I'm going get on. heroin too so then we were both on.

heroin and it's just straight downhill. from. there were his five kids living with you. guys so they would be back and forth um. they were with Aaron most of the. time uh but you know they would come. visit like we had this big like she had. a little apartment and um I think. because we're Workaholics we made so. much money we were able to afford this. big house and so there's there's room.

for all the kids you know all together. with my kid and his kid there were six. kids seven kids [ __ ] cuz I had James. seven kids and there was room for all of. them and so they would come over there A. lot it was a big nice house they loved. being over there um and I think at first. nobody really nobody really understood. the totality of how deep in it we were. in because we made it look good um you. know we kept the businesses going and.

for. me you know lots of people they think. heroin junkies they think of people you. know just passing out in their chairs. with the needle in their arm that wasn't. me at all I I guess from watching my mom. all those years I have to be in control. I cannot be so out of it that I don't. know what's going on so I would snort. heroin and it would give me superpowers. like I was like super mom we would clean. I would bake brownies we would go feed. the Ducks I was organizing everything I. was getting all my work done I was doing.

all the emails I was dealing with. customers like it nobody would have even. thought that I was on drugs I just look. like superwoman. 24/7 until I got dope sick until I ran. out of dope and then like my hair hurt. my skin hurt everything I couldn't move. and that's when people started noticing. maybe they're back on drugs and then you. know. money money wasn't even an issue like. you know most people you know. something's going on because they're.

they're running out of money and we just. didn't do that um yet we would. eventually and we would eventually get. kicked out of that house because um. crack became more important and this is. I mean we're we're talking about. probably a fiveyear span that I'm kind. of going over right now. so how does a how do the pills dry up in. a. city I don't really know Ben actually. probably knows more but I think they.

just bring in you know so much they sell. so much and maybe some get seized you. know you'll see the the big seizures. they have and sometimes those seizures. were drugs that were meant for Memphis. and then they just I guess this Supply. kind of runs out how did the crack come. into. play so Ben was on crack before I even. knew him. um and you know when we first met I'm.

I'm very transparent about everything. and I you know I told him my mom was a. crackhead and um I told him I never. wanted to do crack I never wanted to end. up like my mom my mom is also raging. alcoholic a very violent one so I stayed. away from alcohol I to this day I hate. alcohol I don't want anything to do with. it and um so those two things I always. stayed away from and then one day uh we. couldn't find heroin and I was just so. so sick I was dog sick I just I couldn't.

move but we could find crack and I think. Ben had already had some. um there was one day that I he was sick. and I was not sick so I go down the. South Memphis to go try to find more. heroin so I can make him better when he. wakes up cuz he was just rolling around. in his sleep and he was sweating and it. was just it was bad so I was like let me. go down and I can I can wake him up with. some heroin and make him better well I. waited there for 3 hours there was no.

heroin all they had was crack and I was. like well I remember he used to do crack. back in the day maybe crack will make. him feel better so um so I got like a 30. Rock of crack brought it home to him and. he he was upset that there was no heroin. because he knew he would still be sick. but he was happy that I brought him. cracked so he was doing crack after that. and I think probably about two three. weeks after that you know the crack had.

already been established he had been. doing that so when I couldn't find. heroin about two three weeks later he. was like well I got this crack but it's. a bad idea and I think I remember I was. holding the pipe in my hand I was like. how bad of an idea is this he's like. that's the worst decision you will ever. make and I was like [ __ ] it and I lit it. and that was the end of everything that. that was all I wanted for the next year.

and a half year and a half mm I feel. like it was about a year and a half what. is crack so it's cocaine and baking soda. and water that's those are essentially. the three ingredients and they're cooked. together which you would think you know. like cocaine big deal it's cocaine and. and you just add some baking soda and. some water you don't think it would be. uh a big difference but I guess there's.

you know snorting it shooting it smoking. it all three different routs but all. three very different feelings that you. get from it and smoking crack as I found. out was the one thing that that's like. after that first hit that was it that. destroyed me like that is all I wanted I. didn't want my kids I didn't want my. husband we had gotten married in between. that there's a lot we skipped but um I. just want to crack that was that was it. that was everything it took everything.

we had what did you like so much about. it I guess the feeling and and for. somebody that's never smoked crack you. can't even really describe it um there's. something called the bell ringer and. when you first hit crack for the very. first time or at least the very first. few times there's something they call. the bell ringer and it's it's almost. like you hear a bell in your head and. it's I I can't in words I cannot.

describe it but that is what you chase. every other time you're doing it you are. chasing for that bell ringer you want. that first Feeling Again kind of like. how Ben described the heroin um but this. so much wor course like it's just it. consumes every bit of you it just it. just takes. you where were your kids when you guys. were doing. this um I think for the most part they. were at Aaron's.

house um they would come every once in a. while we would never let them see. anything um of course James lived with. us because he was ours he wasn't errands. so he lived with us during it and. he was one and a half 2 years old he had. no idea what that was what we were doing. we did not do it in front of him at. first uh when we were living in that. house we wouldn't do it in front of him. um until the very end and I do I think.

I've blocked out some parts and things. will come back to me sometimes and I. remember the movie boss baby um when I. hear the theme music for. that like my our our four-year-old plays. it now and it still brings me back um to. that big house and we'd be in our room. and he was obsessed with boss baby and I. just remember sitting on the bed with. him he was watching TV and I was just. sitting next to him smoking crack I made.

sure to blow the smoke in the other. direction though like like that did. anything good but I do remember that I I. did I did smoke in front of James I. think only because he was one and a half. two years old and he had no idea what it. was but you know I look at it. now and and I just think like what. [ __ ] damage I could have done like. could he have gotten high could that. smoke have messed him up you know and it. just it it hurts to know some of this. [ __ ] that we put him through and I.

haven't even got into like the the. really deep [ __ ] that we put him through. and I'll probably let Ben talk about. that but that's that boy went through it. he didn't know it because he was only. two what is some of the [ __ ]. um so when we got kicked out of the. house. um and it was um there's a rapper called. young Dolph he's a Memphis rapper very. famous he just got murdered a couple. like a year ago two years ago um his. mother was the one that uh rent the.

house to us we didn't know this at the. time so when we get kicked out they. didn't do anything legal it's like three. huge linebackers just boom boom boom. y'all haven't paid your rent so they. come in and throw all their [ __ ] out. like literally everything we own. everything we have acquired through. years and years of nothing but work is. thrown on the front on the front porch. or on the on the front lawn and this is. a gated community so like like rich. people live here like it was a nice.

[ __ ] house and so we have all these. people like you know what's going on and. so they know we have kids so that looks. bad to begin with but so we we move out. of this nice ass. house and I think that same day day our. our good Tahoe um our good Tahoe shits. the bed and we have to find a new. vehicle and um so we we had no vehicle. we got kicked out of the house all we. could do is rent a U-Haul which we. didn't even have money to do my dad had.

to buy that U-Haul and uh we just shove. what we can into the U-Haul there's only. two seats one for me and one for Ben. James is sitting in a car seat like. right in the middle he's not strapped in. there's nowhere to put him and we just. drop them off at my dad's house. because what are two addicts going to do. when they get kicked out of their house. with nothing you go back and you go get. high and that's what we did so um I knew. my dad's house was a safe place for him.

so we took him to my dad's. house um my dad I think is in denial a. lot about what was going on and we're. I'm not terribly close to my dad you. know we don't just talk and gab on the. phone every day. and um you know he had a deal with my. mom for so many years he knew something. was going on he knew I'd been in. addiction for most of my life um and I. think he just didn't want to ask. questions he was just like just leave. James here y'all go do whatever and we.

did and we went and started we just. lived in the trap house for like weeks. at a. time. and uh when it when I started in Madison. too like Madison's 10 years old wait 10. 11 so good Lord Madison's like 14 at. this. point I got to think 13 13 I think and. she goes to my dad's house too cuz I. don't want them to to see any of this. because of you know the [ __ ] I saw when. I was little I don't want them to see. any of this um so Maddie does stay with.

my dad for the most part um you know. James is two so I can't leave him with. my dad all the time so we'll we'll have. like little shifts we'll first 5 days we. got kicked out we went straight to the. dope house we stayed there for 5 days. straight we did not leave we just smoke. crack for 5. days and they knew us there because we. had always had so much money that. they're like yeah we'll front you that. we'll frch you that we'll front you that. we didn't even have money um I think.

Ben's Ben ends up buy uh selling the. Tahoe that [ __ ] the bed like for parts. or something or just as a chunk of junk. and uh got a little bit of money that. got us some more crack and before we. knew it we're just going back and wor. going to see James and Maddie and coming. back to the trap house and you know my. dad's he's got a life he's got a job so. we'll have James with us and we would we. would never take him into the trap house. because I was all they had a lot of.

Drive buys like if you look at this. house there was just riddled with bullet. holes bullet holes. everywhere so I was I was always afraid. if I brought him into the Trap that we. would have drive by and he would get. shot so we would go we would go get our. dopee and we'd go drive we would just. drive around in the Tahoe James would be. in the back seat in his car. seat and um and we would just smoke. crack I would be in the front seat Ben. would be driving and we just drive. around mempis smok and crack and our.

friends were all. prostitutes and if we didn't have enough. money they had money because they were. turning tricks so they could get more. crack so you know they'd hop on in the. the truck and we'd all smoke crack. together and we'd go to different traps. together so it would me Ben James and. like three or four prostitutes hanging. out in this saah or whatever it was I. think we in the U-Haul at first and then.

we end up finding the uh $700 truck that. we managed to buy and uh sorry I'm. jumping around all over the place I. think how do you know where all the trop. houses are just kind of word of mouth. um Ben showed me the first one in South. Memphis which was the one he used to. frequent before we were even together. and then you know we were we made money. Dough Boys like money so even though we. were the only white people out there um.

they loved us they they brought us in. like family and also you don't want to. be outside a trap house if you're white. one it's an iore like the cops know if. that's a house on that street and. there's two white folks outside the. window you know everybody knows what's. going on so me and Ben had this thing. and we would walk up and we'd knock on. the window and go back door and that. meant we're here go open the back door. to let the white folks in and the back. door was barricaded it had a pole or.

like a 2x4 on three different levels. maybe it's two different levels um to. keep the cops or buy them a little bit. of time for when the cops kicked in the. door so we'd say back door and we'd walk. in and um. and that was it and we'd stay in there. for a little while because they don't. want white folks going in and out of the. place so we would sit in there for hours. and in those hours we would see the. prostitutes come in the other dope boys. come in so you would meet we would.

network it was like it was like drug. networking so we'd meet the other Dope. Boys we'd meet the other prostitutes who. would you know introduce us to other. dope boys or you know other it was just. like a it's a big drug networking system. did you see any of the stuff going on. inside the trap house that Ben was. talking about earlier so Ben was um we. we did see a lot of bad stuff together I. did not see a murder happen luckily he. did um but you know we were held at.

gunpoint together on multiple occasions. we were kidnapped together um on one. occasion with James um all of those. started in the trap house uh you know we. would why were you kidnapped so we owed. a dope boy a lot of money how much uh. God a couple of grand I can't remember. exactly how much it was I know it was a. couple of grand though and everybody. knew that we sold um Firearms parts we.

we didn't sld the firearm but we sold. parts for the firearms and you know. around the gangsters that's that's real. you know that's real cool everybody. loves that so everybody wanted to be. friends with us everybody was you know. happy to have been in Jess over you know. oh they can give you [ __ ] for your AR. and they can get you tanerite and so. everybody was very free with their um. with their fronts with their letting us. borrow drugs to pay them back later and.

uh this one guy just did it a little too. much and we didn't have the money to pay. him back. so we kind of actually ran from this guy. for a little while because some of those. guys are like really nuts about their. money they want their money and I didn't. know what they were going to do to us. what they were going to do to my. 2-year-old so we kind of ran for a. little while and there's a lady named. Vicky and um we knew Vicky from the. streets and she had just gotten or she. had had she had like a little apartment.

on another side of town I knew we. wouldn't be around. anybody and um they let us move in for a. little bit that didn't last very long. and we called the same dope boy because. when you want crack you want crack like. you don't care if you're going to get. shot you want to hit that crack so we. called him again we were like will you. you please just front us just like one. more time and uh he comes there and he. picks us. up and he gives us some.

crack and um it's me our little. 2-year-old James and Ben and we're in. the back seat he gives us a crack and we. smoke it and we just drive around for a. little bit and he and take us back to. Vicki's house he it was a very nice. kidnapping I will say that because he. had kids of his own so I know that he. didn't want he didn't want to hurt James. or anything like that he just wanted his. [ __ ] money so he was like we're not. going back to that house y'all are.

coming with us and so me and Ben are. like what the [ __ ] like we're in the. back we're in the back seat just like. mouthing to each other what the [ __ ] is. going on um so and he does in fact take. us to his mom's house I'm guessing maybe. that's where he was staying at at that. point and he takes us to his mom's house. in. uh Raleigh or fre Raleigh. um and we go and we have to stay the. night and we it's just like this little.

tiny room with mattresses on the floor. and they're like smoking so much weed. like there's so much smoke in this room. I can barely see my hand I I don't want. any anything to do with weed at this. point like all I want is crack but I'm. not trying to ask for anything I'm just. trying to get my kid out of there but I. know that I can't say anything and I'm. afraid that if I do say will you please. not smoke so much around my kid I'm. afraid that you know you don't know what. these guys are going to do so I just had.

to sit there with my mouth [ __ ]. shut and just act like everything was. okay and I was just like James are you. having fun you know and I just had to. keep that smile on and I had to make it. seem like we were just having a sleep. sleepover uh and and and me and Ben were. [ __ ] scared shitless about what the. [ __ ] was about to happen next and um we. stay the night there you know they they. smoke he makes a couple of serves and. his his girlfriend stays in the room to. make sure we don't.

leave and um we we do fall asleep there. we wake up the next morning and and we. they take us out of his mom's house and. we're just driving around again uh and. the whole time me and Ben are like just. feing for for crack we just want crack. so bad but I don't want to say anything. cuz I don't want to risk anything. happening to my. son so we just keep her mouth shut and. he's. so he he's driving he turns around he.

like so what about that. money and so Ben like gets on his phone. and um I don't know how he does it Ben. does this all the time he just gets like. he'll fall in a pile of [ __ ] and come. out with a $100 bill like that's the. [ __ ] Ben does and he just gets on the. phone and starts texting customers or. answering emails or something it ends up. selling um bump stocks cuz we were like. the number one distributor or the number. two distributor of bump stocks flat.

fires um that year because this was. right after the casino thing happened um. so everybody wanted them before they. were going to get banned and Ben ends up. selling. like however many I don't even remember. how many he told but we were able to get. this guy his money and he let us go we. were all okay nobody got shot or. murdered but for a minute there I didn't. know what the [ __ ] was about to happen. to us so this went. from never happens in front of the.

kid to watching TV with them smoking. crack to in the trap house to getting. kidnapped mhm and he's 2 years old two. years old and it just why I get yeah. it's horrible and it went quick it just. it was just boom boom boom like worse. worse worse worse and it just kept. going was that as bad as a. God no I guess for James um for James.

that's as bad as it got I I think that. kind of that kind of opened my eyes a. little bit and I I somewhat got. kidnapped away from Ben and away from. James um we had another guy that you. know had fronted us and I had promised. him my wedding ring and so he ended up. taking me and he he wouldn't let me out. of his sight until we were like going to. get it appraised and you know so after. that happened I was like okay I've been.

technically kidnapped like twice now. maybe it's time to to slow it down and. um but you don't really have that choice. when you're on crack you don't you don't. get to make that like it it consumes. every bit of you it just takes you and. um I think it the only way to get out of. it is to like sufficiently suffer enough. to go through so much [ __ ] that you're. like you know what I would just. seriously rather die than to live like. this.

anymore. and at one point I had lost Ben like we. were living in a $700 truck with stolen. plates at this point. and um Brandon Kelly that his best. friend that would later overdose was. kind of living in the truck with us and. I don't remember where Ben went I think. we dropped him off at a hotel to go. score some dope for us he stole my phone. and I couldn't find him like he wasn't.

at the hotel anymore I couldn't call him. because I realized he had stolen my. phone and we we seriously had just lost. each other for like 3 or 4 days I had no. idea where he was I just rolled around. and the Taho looking for him and I think. that was one of the things like I we had. gone through this much [ __ ] together and. now we're in the same area running. around with the same people doing the. same drugs and we couldn't find each. other and as much as I was angry at him.

for for stealing my phone and doing all. the [ __ ] that we had done to each other. in Act of. addiction I knew that I still love this. man and I needed to find him and I I. didn't want to lose him and I think the. the thought of losing him or knowing. that he could be dead in an alley. somewhere and I had no idea I think that. was part of what what got me to my end. of being ready to quit and then you hear. Ben's version and he wakes up just. covered in blood has no idea where it.

came from so I think that part and then. Ben's part and we just like you know. what we're going to die if we don't. leave we're going to die our kids are. going to die we're going to it's time to. go was there infidelity in here too. not not on my end I'm I'm I've never. been unfaithful ever on Ben's end just. with those three that we talked about. earlier not during this m well because. all we hung around were. prostitutes and even though he was.

cheating Ben Treasures his penis so he. wasn't going around prostitutes what are. we miss. on I mean there's a there's a whole lot. um. I didn't know how long I was going to be. sitting here so I was just kind of. jumping around there's um like Ben went. in a in a very uh a very nice order and. I was just kind of all over the place. there's I mean the whole hell of a lot. missing um she stabbed me I did I.

stabbed him I mean there's a lot that's. missing you stabbed him mhm it was more. of a slash it was a slash but he uh one. of the times that he tried to get sober. um he he got really really bad drinking. this is when we were in our our big nice. house and we had all the we were just. swimming in money and he just started. drinking again and got so bad that he. would take the upper of his gun didn't. even have the rest of the gun with it he.

would just take the Upp be like I'm. going to kill some cops and he would. like literally run out the front door. thinking he was going to go kill cops. like that's how out of his mind he was. and it got it got so bad like that that. I was like did you got we got to do. something like it's going to get really. [ __ ] bad and remember like I I grew. up with an extremely violent alcoholic. for a mother so that's what you know I'm. used to getting beat shitless so like. I'm he's never been violent with me but.

I'm just seeing this progression and I. just know that at some point he's going. to start beating the [ __ ] out of me like. my mom used to so I'm getting really. [ __ ] scared I'm like dude you've got. to do something because I can't once you. start hitting me I've got to go and I. don't want to leave him and I know that. so um she's like cool I'll it's fine I. will take a shot there's a shot called. Vivitrol and it makes it to where like. you don't want alcohol or if you do. drink alcohol it's supposed to make you. sick or something like that. so so he starts doing that shot and at.

first he does okay um first maybe a week. or. two well then he starts drinking he. starts drinking with it. turns out that when you drink with. Vivitrol it makes you extremely. violent and he got um he got really. really angry I don't even remember what. it was about and I. remember we were arguing over something. and he gets in my face and I it's almost.

like PTSD from when me and my mom used. to be and I just reacted and I think I. just pushed him or something I was just. trying to get him out of my face and. away from me cuz I didn't want to get. beat and he took that as an act of. aggression and he took my head and like. like with his he's got a big hands dude. so he took my whole head and bashed it. into the wall and like I saw black like. for a split second I think any harder.

and I would have like he would have made. me black out luckily I didn't luckily it. was like a half second of Blackness and. I you know I was like oh [ __ ] he could. have just really [ __ ] me up and I'm. always carrying a blade always. um since I was like 14 I've carried. knives on me and so I just pull out my. knife and I just slash the [ __ ] out of. his arm like right here and uh that was. it like gloves were off at this point he. was like oh [ __ ] no [ __ ] and he just. starts you know pushes I it was such a.

blur that I can't tell you exactly. everything that happened but I do know. that we were at each other's throats he. was trying to hit me I was trying to hit. him there's a knife involved there's. blood everywhere and we make it into the. bedroom and I think at this point like. he's you know I'm a girl he's a guy he's. a lot stronger than me and I know this. and um so I'm trying to get the [ __ ]. away from him because he's literally. like blackout drunk out of his mind he's.

not been. anymore and uh so I'm trying to run from. him because I just realized I just slash. this [ __ ] he's going to kill me. so I run into the bedroom and I try to. close the door of course he kicks it. open and gets on top of me and starts. choking. me so much so that I'm starting to black. out like I'm starting to lose. Consciousness and Thomas and his. girlfriend Jackie were like in a truck. in in the garage or in the driveway this.

whole time like he was supposed to be. coming in to get his belongings or. something like Thomas he decided to move. back to Thomas's house for a second or. for a while cuz we had gotten into it. cuz he was drunk so they were sitting. outside waiting on him to come back out. he was supposed to just be coming in to. get his items so um I kind of come to. cuz I was barely even conscious at this. point and Thomas is ripping him away. from me and pulling him off me um.

because he's I mean just hands around my. neck I'm going to [ __ ] kill you [ __ ]. and just. like it was it was very bad it was it. was a very traumatic experience but I I. do believe had Thomas not peeled him off. of me I would not be here right now i' I. would be I almost lost Consciousness so. it. was. there's not a lot of stories like that. that was the most uh violent one between.

us there were a couple of knife fights. over. heroin just because I always have a. knife and I always pull out a knife so. that's on me but there's a lot of bad. that happened. Wow Let's Get Ben back in the seat okay. I want to pick. up right before the Turning Point sh had. mentioned you woke up in a with blood. everywhere so what was that well to this.

day we don't know. um I woke up in the empty lot next to. 1428 Wood Street which is a very. significant address that's the house. that she was describing it's full of. bullet holes where you know we had. friends die in that house friends shot. in that. house. uh I had disappeared I went into a black. out drunk. um I I wanted to get out of that life. very bad and I knew if I kept going back.

to her dad's where I had a soft place to. land I was not going. to and so I. decided to just go all out and either. die or hit rock bottom but it was going. to happen that way one or the other. um I mean I got nose to nose with a a. real young Gangster Disciple who had a. pistol to my gut and told him to pull. the trigger I mean I was begging. somebody to kill. me. um and.

uh that was on Hemlock Street so two. blocks over from Woodward and that was. the last thing I. remember before waking up the um the. 26th of May 201. 19 um in that empty lot just covered. head to toe in blood when I came to like. I was coughing up blood and I figured. I'd must have been puking blood because. I was I could still taste vodka so I. knew I'd been drinking a lot um and then. as I got up like it was all over me and.

so I didn't know how badly hurt I was uh. or what had happened and then there. wasn't a cut on my body so I I to to. this day I don't know what happened. um and as I realized where I was a. window to buy dope froms right there and. I looked over Daphne or C or whoever's. in the window. and it my body is wanting to go to the. window and get dope to wake up and. figure out what to do and I just. couldn't do it I could not take another. step in that.

direction um I couldn't remember. anything from the preceding several days. um Madison's father Nick I had been. helping trying to mentor and get him. into a better life he' recently gotten. out of. prison um and had no idea that we were. shot off he was murdered the 19th of May. I was the last person to talk to. him and uh he was killed for kicking a. roommate out that I told him he needed. to kick out before we would let Maddy. come spend the summer with. him um so I immediately took that upon.

myself that it was my fault and I went. and drank at it and it began my my. progression to Rock Bottom that week um. I found a phone that day and and called. my dad and he told me to just come. home and I didn't know how the hell I. was going to get there and long story. short I ended up going to Georgia got on. greaham bus um I didn't get high that. day I was done I was it by yourself by.

myself and I told Jess I was like you. can either come with me or I'm getting. my [ __ ] together and I'm coming back for. James because this this is over we're. not doing this anymore more and we had. similar conversations a couple. times I would go to detox and tell her. you're coming or I'm leaving and she'd. come she'd show up you know we'd been. through this a few times and then every. time it happened somebody would die. somebody would get murdered there'd be. another overdose and we'd relapse and um.

this time I was done I was getting the. [ __ ] out of Memphis I couldn't stay and. so I went to Georgia. um and uh I'm a control freak I always. have to to manage everything manipulate. really everything at this point you know. I had to be in control of well you've. heard my story everything and and and my. attempts to exert control over things I. shouldn't have any control over has. historically [ __ ] my life up and Epic.

Proportions that part of my brain I. think broke that day. um I didn't know what was about to. happen I had absolutely no control over. anything I had the clothes on my. back and that was it and I was okay with. it for the first time in my life I had. no idea what was going to happen. tomorrow and I didn't care and the. feeling of Freedom that I had is. something I cannot put into words that I.

was just I was okay in that moment I was. okay not knowing what's coming uh and. and that is that is the piece I have. wanted since I was 13 years old to not. be in control and to be okay with it and. I finally found that that. day um it was on the tail end of all. that misery you just heard 18 arrests I. don't even know how many friends Dead. and. Gone. um you know I've been stabbed I've been.

shot at uh lost. everything but I finally reached the. point where I just don't care anymore. I'm okay I'm okay and uh. a week later she she hit the same. point I got on Greyhound bus back to. Memphis got that $700 truck and. James and started the drive back to. Atlanta and um I remember I took a. picture in the review mirrror of that.

truck of Memphis in the rarw and I went. and made some you know stupid emo. dramatic post on Facebook like I'm. leaving this city in the review for good. and uh we laughed about it you know and. like not even 20 minutes later I looked. at and I was like dude we got to go back. she like what are you talking about like. I don't know I don't know something's. our work's not done in Memphis and that. was like just clear as day not like an. audible voice but clear's day a message.

God was sending me is my work was not. done in Memphis and we laughed because. what work did I have in Memphis like it. was just death and Destruction for The. Last 5 Years man. um but that was kind of foreshadowing of. what was to. come you know I go to my parents get a. job at this uh this data company um just. [ __ ] job I haven't worked for. anybody other than myself in 10. years um but I was looking at the bigger.

picture and you know even though we we. lost everything on paper I still. retained a lot of. data um and a lot of expertise in in the. marketing area um digital marketing in. particular I still had a lot of email. lists I still had a lot of. Ip and so I'm looking at like what am I. sitting on right now what do I have in. front of me what can I rebuild with. um and I decided to get a job at this. data company and see what I could learn. about how they're manipulating data and.

running data intelligence for large. corporations um and I meet this guy. named Robert and uh he's my. boss uh we didn't really get along. because he was ConEd i' been hired to. replace him he didn't know about my. background um he just knew that I had. worked for you know Fortune 500 and had. a college. degree. uh I was getting paid next to nothing I. was working crazy hours I'm driving a. truck that I can't register like I don't.

have a title to it I bought it from some. dope boy who stole it from his mom like. but I'm clean you know and. um things are going really well uh uh I. landed a deal to pitch. um a data concept essentially to fiser. Pharmaceuticals oddly enough um on how. to use data to predict the likelihood of. a rare disease to do their digital. marketing and Robert and I kind.

of had an open conversation about the. dislike between the two of us around. that we go to New York and and we have. the conversation over beer right. so I've reled now um this was like in. August I think of. 2019 and I'm still sticking things out. of this dat of company I'm still trying. to figure out how they're doing I tell. Robert what I've got um as far as my. email lists and and all the the. different strategies I used to use to.

get Firearms products around Google's. stupid rules um and we just start having. this ongoing conversation about how. we're going to figure out how to do what. this company does only we're going to do. it uniquely to the Firearms industry who. has so much trouble advertising in the. walled Gardens of Facebook and Google. and all that and. um we continued the conversation October. 3rd of of 2019 I I relapsed again got.

totally transparent with Robert about my. background about everything and we're. still my parents like it's not. comfortable I'm I'm sleeping on a couch. Jess and James are upstairs you know in. twin beds like they're near in. retirement ages at this point they. weren't planning on having their. 37-year-old son and you know his new. family moving in with him um but they. they opened their doors to us and I was. determined to make it work um and Robert. told me when I I opened up to him he's. like look I don't I don't get it I'm not. an alcoholic but whatever I can do to.

help you through this I'm here for it. and. um I've really called him task on that. promise uh and it we haven't stopped. since I I went to AA um I did not want. to go to AA because I was still. convinced at this point that I was. special and that I wasn't like all these. other crackheads and junkies and drunks. um that I'm going to recover different I. don't have to go to. meetings so reluctantly I went to AA um.

on October 4th of 2019 and I shared in a. meeting and this Marine pipes up his. name's David. Gibson come to fight out he's got a. background not too dissimilar than mine. and we talk and uh he he shares some. words of wisdom with me and I get a. sponsor and I start working steps. and you know Jess and I had it in the. back of our heads this whole time that. when Brandon died little Brandon we were.

going to relapse that was our. reservation you know kind of like you. held on to that bag of cat for so long. like it's there you're going to beat it. but it's there if you need it kind of. that like we had that in the back of our. head is I'm I'm going to stay sober but. you know if I need to get high I can do. it when Brandon dies because we knew it. was going to happen and. um December that day came I realized I. hadn't heard from him and uh we had gone. through this exact same scenario 18. months prior with his mother we realized.

we hadn't heard from her and nobody. could reach her and so we went and did a. wellness check and found her dead and. decomposing and so 18 months later I I. see the same thing playing out with. Brandon and I sent um I called one of my. employees from retek who i' stayed in. contact with over the years he'd watch. my rise and fall over and over again and. I told him what was going on he said get. me an address and he went and checked. and Brandon had been dead a few days and. in that.

moment that one. hurt um. it still. hurts. because Brandon should have made it out. with us you know he had. nobody one of the letters his mom wrote. when she killed herself mentioned. something to the effect of she she knew.

that he'd be okay because he had us. looking out for him now and I failed to. do that not only did I failed to do it I. left him there to die and um. and that one cut me really [ __ ] deep. man. um just because of the totality of our. story we didn't really have time to get. into a lot of Brandon. but uh he changed the way I look at a. lot of things and I I wouldn't have been.

able to get off of dope if it wasn't for. him even though he went back out um we. all did but uh the one thing that didn't. happen in that moment is we didn't want. to get high neither one of us did um I. called my sponsor and I called Brian. Owens and he talk to judge dwire um. judge dwire was the drug court judge who. had terminated me from his. program gave me a $200,000 Bond and. tried to send me to.

prison and uh dwire offered up their. nonprofit that we could fund raise for. to Barry Brandon because he literally. had nobody left and I Ed my social media. presence to rais the money to bury him. and um we went back to Memphis and. uh you know we had him cremated um and. had a little memorial for him and and. gave the money we'd raised to the drug. court foundation and. uh and we found some weird healing in.

that um not just the act of. memorializing him but the fact that we. were able to raise money to care for. somebody else that we don't even know. you know just using a social media page. which at that time was nothing but [ __ ]. posting it. was. uh but it it lit a spark in our our. minds um and then as luck would have it. U my sponsor was taking me through the. steps very quickly and I was right right.

getting ready for step 12 right about. them which is to be of service to those. still. struggling and uh something clicked in. our heads man and we're like we want to. do this and we wanted. we want to find ways to raise money to. help people who are fighting that battle. and uh we had actually had the idea. probably high on crack back in 2017 to. to start a nonprofit called uh Flanders. Fields you know the you know the poem by. Lieutenant Colonel John MCC and Flanders. Fields where poppies.

grow cross okay it's po about World War. I about a a field of opium poppies. klanders fields in in the Battle of e. pre in Belgium. but it's got lots of imagery in it. there's dead people you know there's. Beauty rising from the ashes there's. opium poppies which is what heroin comes. from and I wanted to make a nonprofit. Cinders fields to help vets battling. opiate addiction you know and. um time goes by um I I did figure out.

with Robert's help how to replicate my. data set across the entirety of the. internet to very accurately predict. who's about to spend money on a gun. purchase or a gun accessory purch Pur. and I took that to Market and Black. Rifle which had originally been an. e-commerce company selling Parts is now. a company doing advertising for. leviathans in the gun space um and it. took off pretty quickly well enough that. after that little data company was. acquired by a Fortune 500 and Robert was.

acquired in the acquisition with golden. handcuffs I was able to poach him away. to bring him over to Black Rifle. um in March of 20 one we filed to start. plers and and the very first thing we. did oddly enough was uh fly Sergeant. Deon back to [ __ ]. rehab he had uh he had gone out and. gotten addicted to crack and heroin just. like I was he went from paying bills to. the same [ __ ] I did and was oddly enough.

facing a lot of gun charges too um it's. weird how that one played out but anyway. we did our first good dude to Slanders. fields and we're still waiting on IRS to. approve it at this point in July of. 2021 um a Marine Corps intelligence U. NCO hits me up about Black Rifle about. what we're doing he finds it intriguing. um and uh so we start a dialogue and I.

maybe around the 15th he calls me and he. like you want to do something. crazy hell yeah I do I'm bored you know. um. we have at this point moved into our own. house we've got all the kids back um I. think two of the kids I shared with Aon. have moved over to Georgia with us at. this point Lily and the twins stayed and. um Life's good you know we've got way. more than we need which is why we. started the nonprofit because.

historically every time Jess and I have. more than we need we start making bad. decisions with the excess except this. time I'm working in program of. recovery and anyway my answer hell yes I. want to do something crazy and he goes. all right cool well I'll hit you up the. next day or two we're going to get some. people out of Afghanistan I was like I'm. sorry you said we're going to do what. now um he like yeah uh the taliban's. taking over Afghanistan and we're going. to save some some good guys and I was. like I don't know I'm going to help that. but okay.

um I end up getting a call about a week. later and thrown into uh this app called. signal which I had never heard of and. I'm in chat rooms with all sorts. of crazy professions active duty you. know three-letter. agencies and they're want to know if we. can use black rifles data sets to do. anything in Afghanistan to vet people to. find missing people uh to plot safe.

ground routes to spy on what somebody's. consuming on their device um and the. answers to some of those were yes the. answers to other ones were no and the. answers to the other ones were like I. don't know but we'll find out. and um he ends up sending over a list of. it came from a lieutenant general I. don't know if I should name name the guy. but Jack Brittain is the the Marine. andco that that pulled me into this he. owns the cyers samaritan. comom really.

good dude just just a damn good human. being he was volunteering at the time. for the national Child Protection task. force sends over this list and um it's a. list of 13 families that are stuck in. Afghanistan being targeted by the. Taliban for capture or kill um any wants. know can we get them can we find them. can we make contact is there anything we. could do that's like a list of WhatsApp. numbers and social media profiles any. other relevant selectors they had and so. I start calming through breach data.

because a lot of what we've built out on. the Black Rifle side is collations of. breached data from you know like you. hear about like uh Park Mobile had a. huge breach and all this information. gets out and so I started cross. referencing like who may have appeared. in a breach and the first family I had. on there is the last name is. Parisi and I started finding a lot of. activity between that WhatsApp number a. Facebook account and then I got down to. a Hotmail email and then that linked. back to a number at Fort Brag North.

Carolina or fille yeah I didn't know it. was Fort Brag at the time I called it. and got answered it spoke English said. his name is Parisi and so i' like what. the [ __ ] so I hung up real fast cuz I. was a little freaked out you know then I. realized like I'm not doing anything nef. Furious just call back and tell them. what we're doing and as it turned out. this was the now an American citizen. brother of the guy we were looking for. and he had Direct comms with them so not. only is this missing person no longer.

missing we know they're alive we know. exactly how many kids they have with. them we know where they are we know they. have a tie to the US Military and so. they're good to go right so we make. contact with people inside the. airport I've been handing lists of phone. numbers it's kind of like Scott did with. Pineapple Express well we running the. same laines in a lot of this and uh I. called the airport I told these people. to go to abig gate you know we had them. I think they had a yellow flag they were. going to hold up and this Brit pulls.

them in like they're saved we just saved. 11 lives like I'm I'm I'm dumbfound it I. have no idea what I'm doing but it. happened and that really kind of tricked. me into doing the rest of Afghanistan. cuz the the feeling I got from that. initial success that was such a low lift. effort but now they think I'm a hero you. know the family still shcks in with me. to this day they tell me happy birthday. all the time like it's anyway I was. hooked I was like I got to do this more. and so we we went as we tend to do with. all things way overboard into.

Afghanistan all right um we're working. multiple other angles uh through ncpf I. end up in direct comms with a driver in. Cabo. you know one thing leads to another and. uh I like have a ground team in Kabul. now like we're able to move people all. over the place uh we were getting people. into Blackgate I ended up in chats with. Scott man um Oz gist that's how I met.

Sarah Adams um and right at the same. time I started getting because of Black. Rifle success and because of the gun. industry's General disdain for criminals. and Drug. that started getting kind of open about. my background you know what I mean and I. had the exact opposite um feedback that. I was expecting especially in LinkedIn. like. people not only appreciated my openness. a lot of people like oh you know I used. to fight that too and especially from. the Firearms industry itself I was.

actually kind of surprised so I'm in. these chats all these people who like. can certainly pull up my background and. figure out exactly who I am and what. I've done so it's good that I'm already. being open um. as we get closer to the 26th of August. things are getting real dicey in Cabo um. like we've had we've had Afghans get. shot on the other end of the phone with. us while we're trying to guide them in. I've been given access to this geocent. reporting tool where we're able to see. real time gun fire around the airport.

where the checkpoints are we're. navigating like from 8,500 miles away. I'm in my basement in Georgia telling. people how to get into the airport I'm. giving them contact with a driver that. can get them through the 82 black gate. um Jess is on the phone with Afghan. women they're you know screaming and. crying and praying and dar and Jess is. praying in English two totally different. religions but just trying to get the. same thing done. um it was a very surreal experience wow.

um I'm less than two years clean at this. point in time and like I'm in direct. comms with all of these special. operators and like dudes that are. literally on the ground in Afghanistan. guys that are across the order in duchan. Bay uh we had people in Abu Dhabi um uh. at the humanitarian City up there. um like literally within 45 days time. I've gone from running my business and. trying to find some purpose in life. we're waiting on the IRS to approve. Flanders so I can't do a lot other than.

fly my old buddy to treatment and now. I'm I'm in chats with like super duper. badasses. and like right in the middle of this. somebody finally checks our mail and the. IRS had approved Flanders Fields as a. nonprofit on the 15th of August the day. cabal fell so now I've got all of this. going on but now I have a mechanism to. raise money because fanders was. chartered to help house homeless.

veterans did not say anything about. American veterans we've got all these. Allied members of the Afghan National. Army that were trying to help we've got. former Commandos were trying to help. Jess at this by this point in time has. her own little small Entourage of former. Afghan female police. officers. um and then when the bomb goes off at. abig gate you know we couldn't get. anybody else inside the airport that was. it it was curtains but we've already. moved all these people from the sticks. of Afghanistan to Cabo trying to get. them into the airport and evacuate them.

and so the need became immediately. apparent for safe housing and in these. singal chat rooms there was like all. sorts of people freaking out about the. legality of this the legality of that. you know can or do we need to do. something with the foreign agent. registration act what's the Logan act. all this crap I've never heard of it nor. do I give a flying [ __ ] about like I'm. I'm barely 2 years away from being a. criminal so I don't care at all I'm G to. find out if I can leas an apartment inou. I'll be back in 10 minutes so I call my. guy back Bragg he's like yeah my. cousin's a real estate agent what do you. need I was like I need safe houses so.

next thing I know I'm signing a and dar. all right. or uh farsy or whatever I don't even. know what the [ __ ] it was um so we're. signing leases in Afghanistan we put we. start putting families in these safe. houses because we can't get them out of. the airport anymore. and um my dream of Flanders Fields and. and helping homeless and addicted vets. is now morphed because my weaponized. ADHD went for shiny objects syndrome in. Cabo.

Afghanistan we ended. up like no [ __ ] before it was over. we had 68 safe houses in Afghanistan we. had them in cabul we had them in kundus. we had them in jalalabad we had them in. helmond we had him uh close to torkham. I'm not sure how close we had Missouri. share um at one point we were housing. 650 former members of the military yeah. we were BN I I blew through my kids. college savings um but this whole time. like it's just just we're learning how.

to get [ __ ] done real fast real fast. make [ __ ] happen we're making. contacts um and I had my life had. purpose and before I know it I've got. two years clean that's the longest I've. had clean since that relapsed in 2011. and like I'm starting to realize if I. maintain a purpose maybe I actually can. stay clean no matter how much money I. make so we've we've dumped like all of. our personal savings into Afghanistan. I'm making money just to give it to the. nonprofit so that we can continue doing.

what we're doing over there. um we had a lot of very early successes. we had a lot of really crappy things. happen too um. uh I ended. up I think it was November of 2021 I got. invited to Fort Bragg to usak United. States Army Special Operations Command. to come talk to a a room full of three. three green bries about how we're doing.

this like I'm literally a crackhead and. I'm being asked to come to us and talk. about what we're doing in Afghanistan. damn um they had their own little NGO. set up I think it was called Team. America I can't remember what it was but. I met a whole bunch of guys up there. Jeff diaria do you know him okay um and. uh oh it was hilarious when I when I got. there you know they do the background. check at the little welcom.

Center so like I think I'm fine because. I'm I'm there with. uh command sergeant major fwafa one of. the Afghan Commanders guys who had he. had headed up a whole bunch of the. Commando stuff I'm there with him and. then with two former 33 SF guys and I. think I'm going to be fine and I'm. watching the MPS across the counter as. running my [ __ ] I'm like oh no I'm not. fine and so one of the one of the MPS is. like this thick white girl covered in. tattoos so I start flirting with her and.

then she looks down at her screen looks. back at me goes I know what you're doing. outside I was like oh [ __ ] so I walk out. there she's like what are you doing I. was like I'm trying to help with the. Afghan Evac what do you mean she's like. cut the [ __ ]. what is up with your background I was. like I don't know what you're talking. about she's like what the [ __ ] are you. doing here and so come to find out the. way they had entered all of those. charges which I beat every one of into. the NCI it has me show with like 14. felonies or some crap I'm like no I. don't have 14 felonies I beat all of. those and she's like well do you have.

proof of that and I got smart with her. I'm like yes I always keep it with me. come on let's go to the truck and uh she. like well is there anybody you can call. and so I I called division 8 drug court. who had terminated me but we had started. rebuilding that bridge with Brian Owens. gets on the. phone and I don't know if he pretended. to be the judge or if they got judge. dwire on the phone but they confirmed I. do not have any felonies and so they. ended up letting me go to the base um to. do this little class at at usao which.

was [ __ ] cool as [ __ ] like it I still. can't believe that actually happened. um yeah uh. wow but I I tell you that story for a. reason the way God works in all of these. little. details if I hadn't started getting open. about my past with all of the people in. the Evac Community before they work with. me I'm like I want to make sure you know. who I am most of them already follow me. so they knew who I was they already know. that I I talk very openly about all this.

[ __ ] but if I hadn't been open about. that that would have out to be right. there in front of CSM Waffa and all. these other guys if I hadn't gone back. and fixed the bridge with drug court I. wouldn't have been able to on post and. all of these things just kept working. together they just it's kind of like you. seeing those numbers repeatedly you know. the little God Winks they just kept. happening um 2021 was a blur all right. um Jess and I have been working with. Randy C another Green Beret who helped.

Scott with a couple of his books put all. of this into a book so like it's. actually all written out with all the. stories from the Afghan stuff um I don't. want to try to get into all that here. because I really want to talk about what. we're doing to Memphis um what's the. name of the book it's called we fight. monsters yeah it's called we fight. monsters and we're we're launching a. Kickstarter to help get it across the. Finish Line at some point this month. probably before this actually airs but. having been on here and just said that. it's going to help a ton so I hope. people go look up the kickstarter um and.

it's going to go into detail about our. background what we did in Afghanistan. Ukraine Haiti Mexico we've done some. weird stuff in several places at this. point um. but it's it's a road mapap for how to. get good [ __ ] done in very weird places. and odd circumstances and Against All. Odds which is really what we pulled off. in Afghanistan man that's amazing um and. that's how long's. over how long I I hit two years right.

around the time I went to USA we ended. up the next Redemption oh it gets. crazier it gets crazier I'm sure it. does the next month get invited to. Capitol. Hill uh to meet with members of Congress. um and a lot of other soft guys all. right and our child care cancelled the. morning of our flight so we bring Ava so. there's pictures of Ava entertaining. former agency case officers Senators.

like she was the star of the show up. there in DC um we started tighten up. these Circles of people that we know and. work with and because we we've got a. reputation at this point as being folks. who can get [ __ ] done in unorthodox ways. um you know. I if if we have something that needs to. get accomplished our goal is to find a. way to get it done and I don't want to. worry about stupid stuff like legality. until after the fact I hope that never.

comes back to bite me in the ass I've. gotten lucky so far. um right before Christmas uh Jess gets a. message we started shutting down the. safe houses cuz we couldn't afford them. you know. um or not just shutting them down we. were trying to find work for the guys or. find them a pathway to somewhere else. get them out get them taken care of but. instead of keeping that house open and. moving somebody else in we just. terminate the lease and uh we started. doing that in December Jess gets this.

message the day before the day after. Christmas from this girl and starts. reading it to me I'm like nope we're not. taking. anymore the next thing I hear is. screaming and sobbing coming from. Jessica's phone I'm like what the [ __ ]. is that so this girl has sent her a. voice note in real time of the Taliban. beating her father in front of her. mother and she tells us about herself. she's Shia Hazara she's in college she. was 19 when the collapse happened and. she wants to finish college her DB was.

Commando served with our green bra since. the Inception of the Commando Corp. served in the Ana four years prior to. that like this is somebody we got to. help and just basically she basic going. tell me I don't give a [ __ ] what you say. we're Al so she moved them into the safe. house. um the girl lives with us today in. Memphis wow uh she started college uh. two weeks ago in Memphis Tennessee she. is today probably the single most. protected individual in the city of.

Memphis hands down by both sides of the. law it's been absolutely amazing to. watch it it took three years to get her. here but she smuggled herself alone. through 14 countries through the Darian. Gap into Mexico and then we we started. helping again in Mexico. um I don't even know how I ended up with. contacts Mexican government um as part. of all of this weird stuff we've done uh. we got sent down to Mexico during the.

evacuation out of. Ukraine and so I had contacts The. Mexican government that helped us get. her from Guatemala through Mexico and. then and friends that I've made at CBP. helped get her lawfully into America I. made the CBP friends when we responded. to the eval. Massacre wow yeah and I would love to I. do talk about all these in the book I. would love to sit here and talk to you. about them but what do you mean she's. protected by both sides of the law bro. everybody loves her the gang members the.

cops like both sides of the law know her. love her appreciate her watch out for. her. um excon like everybody in Memphis knows. who she is and and they will not [ __ ]. with her you know she's just the most. cared for person in the city of Memphis. right now. wow yeah what's her name. arizo her dad and siblings are still. stuck in Pakistan and that sucks you. know lost any and all ability to get.

people. moved but you know all told in that. effort I mean we. helped I mean I directly got about 250. people into the airport before we were. longer able to get them in and then. after the fact we worked a lot too. um and I I want to touch on all these. crazy stories just to illustrate the. network of people we've got that are. helping us do what we're doing in. Memphis is. staggering it's not.

just addicts and it's not just vets and. it's not just cops and it's not just. federal agents it is people from. literally every Walk of Life that has. come. alongside an effort to help people who. could never ever repay them and this. method that I guess you can call it that. we're using it's kind of Scott's idea we. we did it in Ukraine uh we did it in. Ecuador uh to evacuate some American. medical students that were stuck we did.

it a little bit in Haiti to save a guy. that was kidnapped by cannibal gang we. did it twice in Mexico we've used it yal. we used it at Q Club we did it again. with task force. Lina these Grassroots movements that you. hear Scott talk about all the time. they're real they're very real and and I. think the time. for Americans to stop paying so much. attention to the division that our.

mainstream media. pedals that that time is now because. it's not real it's manufactured Division. and I can tell you this as a white guy. that goes into the blackest streets of. South Memphis where everything revolves. around race and I'm able to get done. some amazing things I'm able. to I'm out there fighting narcotics. trafficking not by putting people in. jail not by shooting people by meeting. people where they're at and I'm able to. take food off the table of drug dealers.

and have them help me do. it I I have been able to get. convicted human traffickers help us get. women into treatment and out of that. life now you know and it's not because. I'm special it's not because I'm from. those streets sure some of it is because. I'm from those streets and they've seen. me do very bad things and they've seen. me recover but a lot of it is just be it. just comes down to human connection you.

know it comes down to what you and I are. doing right now having a. conversation and and giving a [ __ ] about. where the other person's coming from. how how how do you. get how do you get a. dealer who's making money off of that to. help you you can't always but I'll tell. you what we've had great. successful um drug dealers are humans.

just like CIA case officer a seal is. still a human they've got a particular. skill set but they still have things. that are very human about. and relationships are one of those. things there's somebody that is. important to that drug dealer there are. usually multiple somebodies that main a. lot to him he still has a soul and he. still has to earn a living and if you. understand that not all of them are. necessarily evil and if you understand. that there is that human aspect to all.

of them you have an opportunity to find. a way to get through to them now it's. not going to surprise anybody listening. to this to hear that a lot of drug. dealers make good entrepreneurs all. right obviously the. businessmen we've been able to take that. approach with some of them you know uh. demonstrate some of my business success. and prowess over the years and say look. if if you will consider a different way. of life and put this [ __ ] down I'm going. to Mentor you I'm going to help you. that's worked. sometimes sometimes they don't give a. [ __ ] you know they're going to keep.

living the life they're living and you. got to find a different way to reach. them well if you figure out that that. that dope boy's mom has been out there. on the hot track the last 30 years. selling her body or his sister or his. baby mama and you go you go get to them. you get that one some help man you got a. friend for life in that dope boy he may. not stop selling dope if that's the only. way he knows how to make a living or if. that's the way he enjoys making a living. but you can reach him you can make some. level of. impact you could start going after their.

customer base and that that's we did. that successfully on one trap house. actually it took multiple methods on. this one the one on Woodward the one. where I I should have died. that's how we shut that house down you. know we we put one of the dope boys. through CDL. School uh he went back to selling dope. we helped him open up a car detailing. business he went back to selling dope. um we ended up getting help for several.

people that he was real close to and he. loved like family even though he was. selling them what they were killing. themselves with he loved them we got. them help and that caught his attention. and so the tot it of those opened him up. to a conversation and he agreed to shut. the Trap down how's the approach. happen so it's going to depend on. whether or not we have history with that. dough boy and if I don't I've got to. become known to him do you have a lot of. are there a lot of the same people down. there that you were dealing with in your. there there were in the beginning when.

we first went back to Memphis um and we. went back in 2022. now we found out the first day we went. back out there 14 of dead 14 murder. overdose one natural but a lot of them. died uh but the the majority of them is. still the same people it's like we never. left they're still there doing exactly. what they're doing the day I hit rock. bottom in that empty. lot and they don't want to be they don't. it's they don't know anything else they. they were raised there they were taught. if you need something you get it off the.

block you know you do what you got to do. out there what do they think when you. come out there and they see you. completely changed depends on who it is. like day they love to see us because. they know we're there to help people you. know they know we're out there trying to. bring hope recovery Economic. Opportunity uh We've started up a skills. training Workshop like a wood working. shop we're trying to bring opportunity. to the hood to one of the deadliest ZIP. codes in America where as I mentioned. earlier young men have a higher chance.

of being dead or incarcerated than they. do to being school or have a job much. less be in their kids' lives these are. things that have to change you can't. change that being the most violent place. in America without addressing that that. is what has to change and so we Chang. that by bringing hope out there so when. they see us coming they're happy man now. maybe we have cheated a little bit. because we're doing this where we hit. rock bottom and they do know us and that. is important because they need to know. I'm not the police right um otherwise I.

I just get shot you walk up to a trap. house and say hey man I I want to shut. this house down no you're going to get. shot you know you've got you got to use. a little more tact than that and then. you got to show up like. every trap house how do you show up I. should [ __ ] walk up and say what. what's your opening line well so we. wouldn't just walk up to a trap house. the line and say I want to shut this. down it it is a very long. process what's the approach it just the. initial approach the initial approach is.

going after the addicts get them help. because every every dope boy has an. addict or two or five that are pains in. his. ass and when you're selling dope and you. have somebody that's shot off real bad. they're a risk to your. operation if they get rolled up the cops. are going to offer them a deal to flip. and so that person is a threat to your. existence you want them to get off of. dope you don't want to lose them as a. customer necessarily but you want them. to go go to rehab and you know if they.

relapse and get back on dope oh well. right and so we we we've started by. going after the addicts that frequent. those houses and that's not a threat to. anybody no dope boy in their right mind. is ever going to get upset if you are. getting the worrisome prostitute. crackhead off the street they're going. to love it actually and you're going to. build some trust with them by doing it. and so and they know that H they know. that how do they figure out it's you. helping them oh because they see us I. mean it's there's only two white people. going out in the hood doing this well. it's more than that now um but they know.

and we'll hold events out there like. we'll feed the hood we will buy. Christmas presents for all the kids in. the hood thousands of toys we've done. that two years in a row now and and. while that may sound like handouts and. enabling people to make poor decisions. with their money buying drugs instead of. presents yeah that I'm sure. happens but it wasn't James's fault when. J and I bought drugs instead of. Christmas you know it's not those kids's. fault uh and so even though there is a.

little bit of handout involved in the in. the events that we do it's building. trust man these people are seeing and. realizing you're there to actually help. help them you're not there just to go. put somebody in jail you know or shoot. somebody you're actually there trying to. meet a need meet these people where. they're at and show them that they still. have worth as human beings because I can. tell you when I was out there towards. the. end I didn't feel human I I wouldn't. make eye contact with anybody I felt I.

felt substandard to literally anyone I. felt so insignificant and. worthless and um and I came real close. to inding it more than once on purpose I. tried more than. once and uh do you have conversations. with these guys. absolutely absolutely you I I want to. talk to them about their hopes and. dreams I want to talk to them about. where their life diverged from the one.

they had always envisioned and the sad. part is that in a lot of these cases you. find out it didn't they're living the. life they envisioned because that's all. they're ever taught it's all they're. ever shown it was all it was ever. modeled for him you you have like. generational legacies of dope dealing in. some of these neighborhoods I would. imagine so I mean how do you. um like how do you. even we just had a conversation a couple. hours ago. about having your identity wrapped up in.

in in in your occupation man and that's. that is I didn't want to like try to. make a comparison between soft guys and. dope boys but I was thinking about when. you're saying it because their identity. is completely wrapped up in that. completely it is it is their whole sense. of worth and value is wrapped up in the. fact that they're a dope boy and they. got money and they have control they. have power because the reality is. especially when we're talking on the. trafficked women side of it if you got.

that sack of dope you have whatever you. want you you you can get whatever you. want out there no questions asked and. that is a hard thing for some of you. guys to let. go when they start seeing it happen to. somebody they love though their sister. their child their baby mama their cousin. their mom their eyes open up a little. bit you've got a window of time to make. some impact. there. um young kids getting shot out there. that happens all the time too and it.

breaks everybody's heart you know nobody. wants to see that [ __ ] um and those are. those are opportunities to go in there. and have conversations. um they all know and accept that their. means of earning income is not. sustainable and that it will send them. to prison and so trying to break it down. to these guys that prison is not a. normal part of life that's not we like. don't don't have that on your 5 10 20.

year plan you know like don't put prison. as something that's going to happen you. can actually control whether or not you. ever go to prison that's like a. revelation to some these guys no kidding. yeah and and how sad is that how sad is. that in fact I I'll give you an. example I'm not going to say his name. but years ago in the Trap House on. Wilber they used to give the biggest. dope boy on that block a hard time. because I had done more prison time or. more time than he had I've never even.

been to prison all mine was jail. time but they used to give him a hard. time because I had done more jail time. than he had when was it ever a bad of. honor to do more jail time than somebody. else it's not it shouldn't be and so. these mentalities that you're having to. break down out there they've been in. place for Generations you know and it's. do they become vulnerable with you do. they do they give. you validation for for for helping oh. yeah absolutely now it's good it's going.

to depend on who it is you know. everybody's individual and some of them. are going to be way more closely guarded. but I've seen tears shed by a lot of. these guys. especially when it comes down to things. like fatherhood being present in your. kids'. lives. um and if if you can get them to talk. about. childhood that that usually rips open. some. wounds some painful ones because I've I. don't know if this is unique to the.

neighborhoods in Memphis where we. operate or if this is an across theboard. thing in inter cities but sexual abuse. is very common in childhood even incest. in sexual abuse um it's and that's like. that's not something that gets talked. about in that community and if you can. create an environment where they will. talk through childhood traumas you. really get another in with these people. you know and it's again it's it's just. that thing of you have to make human. connection and and that's why I.

think well I forgot where I was going. with that 8 you have to make human. connection and that's why so you're. saying you have to establish human. connection you've got to establish human. connection and and in the communities. we're working and that's not necessarily. a popular thing to do um at scale. publicly so you've got to create an. environment where you can have. one-on-one conversations with these guys. um and I keep saying men it's women too. but you know from your own experience.

you know most of the calamities we face. as humans are driven by bad men actors. right and so my focus is always on the. males out there and we've got women that. will work with women too though. um but trying to reach them and just get. to the root cause of of why things are. the way they are and I think at the end. of the day most of it does come down to. lack of Economic. Opportunity and an acceptance at scale. of violence drug.

addiction uh drugs and human bodies as. currency I know my team's getting ready. to go down there. and do that with yeah we got Wyatt and. who Wyatt and um Justin Justin they're. going to have a blast they're going to. get to see this in real time you know. I'm going to take them I'm going to take. them to 1428 wward Street the house that. used to be full of bullet holes there's. a woman and her three children who I.

helped her get custody back of living in. that house that just celebrated. Christmas in there she's a year and. something sober now trafficking Survivor. the women that used to sell dope out of. that house I've got them housed in. another old trap house around the corner. and it's like I'm taking the most I keep. saying I I mean we it's this is not just. been out there we have like a literal. Army that's out there doing this with us. but how many of you guys are there I. don't even know at this point man so. like at any given point we're housing.

around. 75 um and we're working with roughly. 200 sometimes more sometimes less now. we've gotten. north of 350 people off the streets. through detox into rehab through sober. living and back into the workforce I. don't know that all of them stayed I. mean I know not all of them stayed clean. but a lot of them did so we've got a. pretty sizable team out there and then. we've still got all these people from. the Evac communities the Afghanistan and. and Ukraine that are pouring resources.

into this too guys like Scott Scott. man's on our board um. uh General Hicks who's A10 barrels down. there is on our board Travis Peterson uh. retired Master Sergeant he was a Air. Force guy and a agency contractor too. he's he's on our board we got a gunny. from the Marines and then all of us have. some level of trauma that we've had to. deal with you know and I think that's. kind of the key to building these teams. out is you have to have some overcome. trauma if you want them capable of doing. anything really really cool for no.

reason other than to have. purpose man that is. a that's. incredible it's going to get more. incredible so are you are you buying. these houses yeah yeah. well we had this uh real estate. developer who had bought up a couple of. them at tax Sals and every time she. tried to do something out there they. would like steal her car you know cut.

her cataly vergers off so she donated. those houses cuz we're actually able to. go out there and do whatever we want. um the house on wber I bought I bought. it from my friend drenan who was shot. six times in that house his wife died in. that house that was one of those. relapses right before Rock Bottom was. when she died I bought that house from. him and the drug dealer that made his. living in that house is Who convinced. him to sell it to us no [ __ ] yeah now he. failed to convince his partner and his.

partner shot somebody six times another. somebody no three times the day we shut. the house down coming out of my house. after it was legally mine he shot. somebody he's back in prison now where. he. belongs that was actually the guy that. kidnapped her over the wedding. rooming evil evil evil person you know. we deal with the worst that Humanity has. to offer but I can count on one hand the. number of truly evil individuals I've. ever met and it's it's low even in the.

child predator space they're. not as evil as you would think they'd. have to be which I still have a hard. time wrapping my mind around that I. really. do is there a lot of that going on down. there there so. we've we've recovered several dozen. women from sex trafficking prostitution. two of them were minors um and I hate to. tell you this but both of them were. pissed where you covered.

them no I mean I we've we've talked a. lot about that subject here and yeah yep. you know it's they're slaves to dope man. and in that age. demographic you heard my story when I. was 15 there was no getting me sober. that early I hadn't suffered enough shle. just said you got to suffer sufficiently. to choose something different and while. you and I may hear that you know a. 15-year-old being sold for sex that sure. sounds like suffering to me it's not. enough for them sometimes you know now I.

don't give a [ __ ] it's still a crime I'm. still recovering you and anybody that. was involved in your trafficking is. going to go to prison but it doesn't. mean the victim's going to stay sober. you know what I. mean so how many houses are there we'. got a total of 10 houses in Memphis and. um I'm I'm really excited to tell you. this because I've not announced this. publicly because we're still waiting on. paperwork there is a. 76,000 foot nursing home behind one of.

my blocks immediately behind it it's. been abandoned for 20 years and last. week we Tracked Down the owner and told. her we want to turn it into a treatment. center which will make it I think West. Tennessee's largest treatment facility. so you guys have Morgan County and DC4. over here in this area West Tennessee. has nothing the lady told us uh that not. only is she interested in donating the. property to is she wants to actually. assist in raising the money to renovate. it and oversee it um I'm going to go.

ahead did you say did you say 76,000. Square ft 76,000 sare ft hundreds of. rooms it sits on five it's massive. massive and so I think that's our our. next move is our on treatment facility. because right now I'm having to work. with Community Partners who I love I'm. so grateful for all of them like. Alliance Serenity Cap all the treatment. centers we don't have anything that can. do it all in one house in that side of. Memphis and certainly not this size this.

is in the middle of the track I mean. you're you're sandwich between the hot. track and the dope track right there. it's it's a perfect location to do this. and and I'll tell you this you know a. lot of people might hear this and think. well that's that's really cool that's. great it doesn't really affect me that's. not accurate man this crap affects. everybody and it's happening in. everybody's backyard I'm talking about. Fentanyl and human trafficking you might. not see it the same way that we see it. out in South Memphis but this is. happening everywhere and violent crime.

spills out of big cities there's no way. to argue that I can tell you from. experience when we shut down the trap on. Melrose and when we shut down the trap. on W violent crime on those two streets. ceased that day literally that day on. Woodward somebody got shot that day but. you get what I'm saying it's it is the. sole source of all the Mayhem that. happens anywhere near there we work with. certain law enforcement agencies in. Tennessee who have tons of data on this. and are able to back all of this up but. 90 plus per of the violent crime in.

Tennessee goes back in one shape former. fashion too dope and so if you remove. the drugs from the equation so much that. violent crime goes down and that's. that's something we all want it's good. for everybody how many dealers have you. turned um we've turned two very big ones. four smaller ones and that's been. through well I hate to use this term. with you because you're a seal but. direct action and what I mean by that is. not what you mean by by da and what.

we're doing we're going direct Ben is. going directly to this guy to talk to. him and we're going to try to turn this. thing around so two big on for small. ones now if we're talking about court. referrals because we do work with the. drug court program we work at veterans. court we work with the DA's office they. send people to us all the time and if. we're counting those who have already. been Justice involved right they've. already been arrested it's in the dozens. now they may not have had a choice there. wasn't an agreement reached they were. court ordered to stop their behavior but.

they did succeed in turning the life. around there are dozens of those dozens. wow and so it's easier obviously to do. it if you have the law backing you up. but my goal out there is to keep these. guys from from going to jail if they're. fixable and definitely keep the addicts. from going to jail because if you look. at the way we fought the War on Drugs. for the last 40 years it's an abject. failure by every metric measurable we've. made no progress in fact it's worse. overdose deaths are higher than they've. ever been now I know and you know that's.

in largest part because of fenel and the. issues at the southern border with are. just coming right across but the status. quo has to be challenged we're not not. Prosecuting our way out of the War on. Drugs we've tried it for 40 years we're. not Prosecuting our way out of the war. on human trafficking it's it's not. working I'm not saying we stop. prosecution I'm not saying anything in. favor of decriminalization or anything. like that what I am saying is we need. Partnerships like the one I just. described where we do work with courts.

we do work with law enforcement but we. also work with the guys on the other. side of the law we work with the junkies. we work with the addicts who are in the. gutter actually enduring this [ __ ] and. we help them get better we help the. other guys who who were literally. sometimes just in it to put food on. their table we help them find a better. way out too and I think by working that. kind of I like to imagine it like this. this a vice you know you're fighting. from the top and the bottom at the same. time we can actually get some big [ __ ]. done and if we have more time we could. talk about how we did exactly that in.

Afghanistan we got big [ __ ] done how we. did it in task force L with the Maui. fires and we got big [ __ ] done it's the. same method we're we're working from the. bottom up and the top down but that. grassroot side is something we have. complete and total control over I don't. have to wait on a bureaucracy to make a. decision I can just move right now I. don't have to wait on legal to approve. something you know what I mean and. honestly when when you're dealing with. an ISS an issue like human trafficking. veteran homelessness anything where.

addiction touches it I have seen more. times that I can count a delay of hours. result in death literally just hours. ends up with with a dead. person a month ago we had two double. funerals siblings die within hours of. each other oh man like this this has to. stop man we're losing generation of. American Youth you know fent is the. number one killer of people I think. under 55 now and if you want to talk. about that from a national security.

standpoint recruitment's at an all-time. low and we're losing a generation of War. Fighters like 300 a. day that's kind of scary Dam. damn that's [ __ ] amazing. man it's keeping me sober my bet it. is nothing more nothing less that's some. big big. impact we have no plans on slowing down. man we want to we want to take what.

we're doing in Memphis I want to. quantify it and validate it by getting. that city off of the top five deadli. cities list and then I'm going to. blueprint exactly how I did it every. relationship we made every every. agreement we we went into with the. street gang or with law enforcement and. just write every bit of it out and and. see if somebody else can replicate it in. their City because I'm positive they can. I'm literally just a crackhead and we've. pulled this off in South Memphis you. know like I'm not that special I think I.

think this can be replicated I think. it's scalable I think it's viable and if. nothing else I've seen a lot of families. get put back together I've seen a lot of. lives get saved I've seen a lot of. people become productive members of. society and that's enough for. me and you and Jess are some amazing. people. man I appreciate that brother I do that. is that is astounding what you guys are.

doing wow it's our duty in our you. remember we used to pray to God if he'd. get us out of hell together we'd go back. for those who left. behind he got us out we're together we. got to go back I don't have a. choice well. then. I I'm blown away man that is.

um what you've been through what you put. yourself through with justess your kids. mean are your kids involved oh yeah yeah. uh so Jacob worked 17 of the 21 funerals. in yalo with us he uh he made a lot of. the surviving kids smile for the first. time in a long time Jacob helped. renovate the house at 1186. Melrose um Jacob had to jump I hope his. mom's not listening to this eron I'm.

sorry Jacob had to jump under. floorboards to hide from a driveby on. wward. street but um yeah they're involved. James and Ava come everywhere with us. they love it um Lily has had a great. time going out and meeting people in the. hood Madison has come out they all have. they all love it you know the twins. they're 14 it's it's kind of cool. sometimes I think the only one that. hasn't really gotten terribly involved. is is my oldest son Jackson and he's in. college you know doing his own thing. he's very focused on school and he's.

still working full-time too so for all. that we put our kids through they turned. out okay you know. they really did that's pretty amazing. too we got pretty amazing we got really. lucky wow you know and I huge huge props. to Aaron for that because she shielded a. lot of them from a lot of. bad man I'm proud to know you dude. likewise brother that. is I love it is there anything my.

audience can. do uh definitely look for the. kickstarter uh for we fight Monsters by. Ben and Jessica Owen that would be huge. um if y'all want to check out the. website it's we fight.org um we've got. our YouTube channel. youtube.com is it Monster. Fighters um just check us out or look me. up on Facebook LinkedIn follow me I got. a patreon too patreon.com.

benen we'll link it all in the. description and um man just God bless. you God bless Jess kids everybody you're. working with all the people you're. saving I. mean lots of lots of love man thank. you thank you for the opportunity to be. here man. seriously holy [ __ ]. dude dude we could have gone another. eight hours I know I know I know so you.

brought up. psychedelics huge. proponent yeah yeah s I've been Sav my. life yeah I I was going to actually tell. this today but we didn't get at time she. doesn't even know this I tried to kill. myself in her house and then told her. somebody broke in and robbed me I cut. myself to [ __ ] pieces I mean but I. never could hit an artery and I guess. it's CU all dope I shot she doesn't know. that well let's keep it in be a little. oncore yeah yeah she how psychedelics.

change your life so micro do and COC. cybin micro do mhm yeah now see it's. it's a weird SP like I can't do that now. because I'm in recovery you know but it. got rid of that suicidal. ideation. um but it despite being in recovery iasa. psilocybin there's so much research that. needs to be done with all of these. things it needs to be available yeah. especially I I'm going to link to. demographics that people don't link.

often but I think to combat veterans and. sex trafficking survivors I've not come. across a sex trafficking Survivor to. date that has not been a witness of. extremely horrific violence yeah. um and I think there's something to be. said for the fact that this is happening. in their Hometown like where they live. and sleep and eat and have to. reassimilate in society so I want to see. more psychedelic research done in that. demographic I really do but it's tricky. because not every addict is going to be.

able to responsibly do psychedelics. we're still talking about drugs you know. yeah um but there's a lot of us that can. you know damn and in a controlled. environment I think it's uh the outcomes. from it if you've read any of the. studies which is well read as you are. I'm sure you have the. uh I just went brain dead s not Mayo but. which one Stanford yeah yeah they've uh. I had a a marock buddy we worked with.

during the Evac that was part of uh I. forget which one and then everybody. swears by. alasa everybody swear but yeah haven't. done that I did iig gain I've heard a. lot of good things about Iain I I wanted. to do that coming off. heroin but when I was still thinking I. was special you know I just couldn't. couldn't afford it because I blew all my. money but yeah huge proponent of iag. silos cyon iasa all of them yeah me too.

me. too yeah have you read up on. neuroplasticity a little bit that shit's. fascinating fting it is so fascinating. the way your brain literally will rewire. itself and form me Pathways with. psilocybin if you're doing the the. guided uh John's Hopkins that's the one. I was trying to think of they've it's. it's mindblowing the kind of [ __ ] that. like we just we don't some of that. stuff's over my head Ben I didn't write. a [ __ ] medical. medication.

ag3. but damn dude that's a hell of a story. wow yeah Scott wasn't [ __ ] around. well you got to hear a lot more than. Scott her but there's still so much more. well there's so much more we'll get you. back on I would love to be back on and I. love that you put her on that camera man. that was awesome you like that I do. because if I told her she was going to. do it she either wouldn't have done it.

or she'd have [ __ ] up but you made her. comfortable and what you've obviously. done with me too this is my greatest. fear well public speaking in front of a. crowd is my greatest this is my second. greatest yeah and it's not even I I was. telling Darren downstairs it's not even. fear of really speaking it's I'm afraid. I'm going to be afraid B I'm. speaking. well when I made. this I wanted it to be like a super. comfortable environment as equipment in.

the shots nothing in your face you. know and uh I. think well I don't think I know I I uh. credit to my therapist man I did three. years twice a week and have you ever. done. um sgb what's that the cell gangan. blocks no okay. no I just wondering because Travis and.

Joel on our board both do those and. you're very even killed and calm much. like no not Joel but Travis you guys. the way you talk just you're just you. relax people when you talk to them and. Travis has the same. trait I appreciate that but um take it. as a compliment but. uh no I'm not I've not done that I'm in. a good place man I can tell I don't need. to rock you just sound content I envy. you I got a great team you.

do great. family I don't um I'm good so. God is good man yes he is got it made I. love it thank you you. [Music]. too no matter where you're watching Shan. Ryan Show from if you get anything out. of this please like comment subscribe.

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