Avi Loeb - Detecting Remnants of Alien Technology in Space | SRS #137

[Music]. ail lob welcome to the show thanks for. having me it's great to be in. Farmland it's uh it's I'm really excited. about this interview you popped up on my. radar from a gentleman that I. interviewed about a month ago Tim galet. who's part of your Galileo project and. uh started looking at India and I love. the stuff you're talking about I'm.

fascinated with all of the topics and so. I'm just thank you for coming I'm really. excited at thanks for inviting me my. pleasure so we're going to talk about a. number of things we're going to talk. about black holes we're going to talk. about. extraterrestrials the the Galileo. project and some of the other stuff that. you are involved in when it comes to. outer space and so um should be a very. fascinating interview and um if you. don't mind I'd like to introduce you.

real quick you have. a long introduction lots of. accomplishments and and just fascinating. things that you've been involved with so. here we. [Music]. go Abraham AI lobe born in. 1962 in Israel You're an Israeli. American theoretical physic physicist. received a PhD in plasma physics at the. age of 24 a Frank B Bard Jr professor of.

science at Harvard University you're the. founding director of Harvard. University's black hole initiative head. of the Galileo project you hold a. visiting professorship at wisman. Institute of Science and a senior. professorship by special appointment in. the school of physics and astronomy at. Tel Aviv University director of The. Institute for Theory and computation at. Harvard Smithsonian Centered for. astrophysics.

the former chair of the astronomy. department at Harvard University 2011 to. 2020 former member of the president's. Council of advisers on science and. technology and a former chair of the. board on physics and astronomy of the. nationalis a fellow of the American. Academy of Arts and Sciences the. American physical society and the. International Academy of astronautics. you have public popular science books.

including extraterrestrial the first. sign of intelligent life beyond Earth in. 2021 in interstellar the search of. extraterrestrial life and our future and. the stars in 2023 your book. extraterrestrial became an international. bestseller and was translated to 26. languages in October of 2023 you. received the cosmos award for it you. were named 2012's time magazines 25th.

most influential people in space you. have authored over 1,000 research. articles in eight books Netflix is. producing a documentary about your. research to appear in 2025 I can't wait. to see that by the way on February 16th. 2024 you were the first scientist. invited to speak for 45 minutes at the. Munich's security conference in Germany. a day later you were invited by the. Polish government to deliver the key. keyote lecture and celebration of the 5.

the 550th year. anniversary of the birth of Nicholas. Copernicus did I butcher that no that. was fine at his birth place of Teran. Poland the title of the lecture was the. next copernican Revolution you are. fundamentally a curious farm boy right. and to this day have no footprint on. social media right we could have saved a.

lot of time if you just said the last. sentence first I was born on a farm and. I'm curious that's all you were born on. a farm yes what you know what did spark. your curiosity in outer space I we had a. brief discussion about this at breakfast. well as a kid I was really uh wondering. you know about the world that I was born. into my mother told me that um in the.

delivery room I looked very different. than the other babies they were looking. around and I was looking. up and since then I didn't stop to look. up uh so as a young kid I would drive a. tractor to the hills of the village. where I was born I used to collect eggs. every afternoon we had the chicken and. um I would read philosophy books because. they asked the most f Al questions about.

our existence and I really wanted to. pursue a life. of full of curiosity trying to figure. out answers to the most basic. questions and um since I was born in. Israel you don't have that privilege at. age 18 everyone is drafted to the. military and I preferred since I was. good in physics I prefer to. actually uh do something that is closest.

to philosophy which was pursuing. research in physics and um at the time. there was a new program that was. established that allows its members 30. of them that they selected out of. thousands to study Physics and. Mathematics and then use it for the. defense of the country and um I uh. during that time that I was there. between age 18 and age uh 26 I um got my. PhD at age 24 working on basically very.

hot gases that are generated when you. release a large amount of energy uh in a. small volume and uh at the time uh the. Strategic Defense Initiative uh was. announced by President rean and um we. proposed a project that was the first. International project to be funded by. the US and thanks to that we received. millions of dollars a year and I came to.

Washington quite often and in one of the. visits uh I was advised to visit. Princeton The Institute for advanced. study where Albert Einstein was faculty. a few decades earlier and I went there. uh at first they said show us um your. credentials the administrator there. asked me for my Publications they sent. what I had and then when I arrived there. uh she said there is only one person. here that uh is has available time to.

speak with visitors and that's Freeman. Dyson and she introduced me to Freeman. and then he introduced me to an. astrophysicist John bakal um I didn't. know John I didn't know much about how. the Sun Shines and I had no clue about. astrophysics but he offered me he took a. Gumble he offered me a fellowship for 5. years at Princeton after I finished my. military service under one condition. that I'll switch to astrophysics.

and it's kind of an offer that you. cannot refuse just like in The Godfather. uh and so I accepted it even though it. was not really what I wanted to do and. then there was an opening at Harvard and. nobody wanted that position in fact they. offered it to someone who declined it. and then they went for me so I said okay. well again it's it doesn't come very. often so I'll take it cuz other people. appear to be you know to have some.

respect for that University and the. chances of getting promoted was very. small the they didn't promote from. within um and so after three years they. gave me. tenure because Cornell University wanted. to hire me and so at the end of this you. know it was like an arranged. marriage uh but um I realized that I'm. actually married to my true love because. there are fundamental questions.

philosophical questions that we can. address with the scientific method and. all of this to say what would some of. those questions be for. example how did the universe start you. know like we know that the the universe. is expanding so if you reverse the movie. back in. time it was denser and denser as we go. back in time and there was a point in. time when the density of matter and. radiation was infinite.

it's called The Big Bang that's when. everything started there was an initial. point in time and by the way this. philosophically is not very satisfying. because you want to ask what happened. before the Big Bang and Albert Einstein. actually resisted the idea that there. was a beginning in time even though this. is the version that appears in the Old. Testament H so what happened before the. Big Bang that's a fundamental question. and uh you know nowadays when I think.

about it I realize you know Einstein's. theory breaks down at the Big Bang. because the density of matter and the. curvature of space and time become. infinite but we know that if there was a. theory that unifies Einstein's gravity. with quantum mechanics another pillar of. modern physics we would have potentially. understood what happened before the Big. B it's just that we don't have that. theory so then I can imagine that maybe.

there was a quantum gravity. engineer it could be a scientist or an. engineer from another. civilization that had that knowledge and. knew how to create a baby Universe in. the. laboratory and maybe our big bang was. created by an. extraterrestrial in a white lab. coat that's a possibility all I'm saying. is this is a fundamental question of.

course religions have another take as. who created this thing that we live in. by the way one thing to keep in mind it. started really simple you can describe. the initial conditions of the Universe. on a single sheet of. paper and it became complex because of. gravity the universe was uniform to. start with to one part in a. 100,000 but then regions that were. slightly denser than average.

acted upon themselves by gravity and and. condensed to make bound objects like the. Milky Way galaxy that we live in inside. of which you have stars like the sun MH. and next to which the debris from making. the. star H coal coagulated to make a planet. like the Earth that we are sitting on so. all the complexity we see on Earth that. you cannot summarize you know in. thousands of books um all of that came.

from very simple initial conditions and. if I wanted to create the simplest. Universe. possible ours is pretty much it and so. what started it is a good question and. how did we get all this mess that we see. around us including politics you know. from those very simple initial. conditions if you just start with those. conditions you'll end up with all the. mess with we see around us which is.

Amazing by itself how how do we know. that the Universe started with a big. bang because we can see what is going on. right now it's expanding mhm and so is. the. expansion is. the so we expansion like a shock wave no. it's. actually the way to think of it is like. a balloon that is blown up so the. surface of a balloon is two dimensional. that Dimensions that describe it that's.

the only difference from uh space itself. expanding in the universe because that. is in three dimensions but other than. that if you imagine you know marking. dots on the surface of the of the. balloon they would reede away from each. other as the balloon expands so the same. in the same way galaxies like the Milky. Way that are spread all around the. universe they are receding away from. each other because space itself is. expanding so does that mean every.

second distant galaxies planets and. stars are increased are are moving away. in distance as if they don't like us but. it it gets more extreme than that uh. when I came to Harvard I gave a course. in cosmology and one of the students in. my class told me that what I said in. that class motivated him to. pursue a new line of research that ended. up concluding that not only the universe.

is expanding but the expansion is. accelerating over time uh that student. was Adam rys uh he got the Nobel Prize. for it together with two others so we. now know that other galaxies are running. away from us at an ever increasing speed. and this H this started when the. universe was roughly half of its current. age that it started to accelate it's as. if gravity is rep. Ive and you can understand that because.

when you look at Einstein's gravity you. know if the vacuum the vacuum is what is. left after you remove all the matter you. know in a box if the vacuum itself has. some mass per unit volume some mass. density that creates repulsive gravity. according to Einstein's um theory of. gravity and that's what we see in the. universe so we realize that the Universe. initially expanded it was was the mass.

budget was dominated by matter and. radiation but once they got diluted. enough the vacuum started dominating and. the vacuum is causing this accelerated. expansion so that's what we see now and. what it means is if you have a friend in. another galaxy far away at some point in. time that friend will be carried away. from you at a speed larger than the. speed of light so you wouldn't be able. to get any Instagram up dates or from.

that friend Beyond a certain point in. time it's just as if the friend fell. into a black hole because the same thing. happens if your friend crosses the Event. Horizon of a black hole the image of. that friend Fades away and freezes at. the last frame of that friend when they. cross the Horizon so that's the only. information you have cuz no information. can escape from inside the black hole. mhm and the same is true for crossing.

the cosmic Horizon the the edge of our. universe by a friend that you have in a. galaxy that is receding from us faster. than light and you might ask how is it. possible for something to move faster. than light because after all the speed. of light is the maximum speed that any. material object can move at well that's. true according to Einstein only when you. deal with things close to you but. imagine again this. balloon and imagine ants walking on the.

surface of the balloon so the ants walk. at some speed but if we blow the balloon. fast enough then the separation between. the ants will grow faster than they can. Traverse it so in fact they will never. be able to communicate with each other. if the balloon is expanding too fast and. the analogy is with the expansion of the. universe the ants are light part. particles of light photons so they move.

at some speed but if space itself is. expanding fast enough even light cannot. bridge the gap that is being opened. between us and the friend that is uh. receding from us after some time so we. will be left lonely in the distant. future we will be surrounded by our own. Milky Way galaxy and beyond that there. will be Darkness. emptiness there is a very lonely future.

for us which I don't mind I actually. like space you know I hate. crowded being here I mean I was born on. a farm as I told you I'm very much. connected to Nature and I enjoy whatever. nature brings to my door step but this. is one fundamental question and even. more fundamental question is are we. alone you know is. there someone else in our neighborhood. is there a smarter kid in our mic block.

now we tend to think throughout. throughout our history humans thought oh. we are very privileged we are the. smartest beings on Earth and guess what. we can put on the menu in restaurants. animals that are less smart than we are. we can eat them that's what we do right. you go to a restaurant you can eat a. chicken no problem um we don't have any. ethical issue with eating animals that. are less smart than us but suppose we.

encounter an. extraterrestrial if we don't leave a. good impression on that. extraterrestrial they might put us in. their soup. mhm well you might want to think about. taking some of that cash and try to. protect your purchasing power with. precious metals like gold and silver. it's simple go to shaikes gold.com or. call. you'll learn about top rated precious.

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s so it's really important to know. whether there are others out there and. by the way you know we are engaged in. conflicts Wars here on Earth we are led. by our politicians to conflicts because. here on Earth everything is zero some. game you know like there is a certain. territory One Nation wants it another. Nation wants it there are two Wars right. now related to that. um so it's a zero sum game if one side.

benefits the other loses that's what. politics is about but if we find someone. out there you know first of all there is. unlimited real estate beyond Earth you. know like uh there is no point in. fighting over territory on this rock. that we happen to to be born on you know. there is so much out there we should. think about going somewhere else but uh. more however you know.

that neighbor that we might. find may serve as a better role model. for us than our politicians because it. might Inspire us to behave better it. might be more intelligent than we. are and the strange thing is when you. bring this up people say oh this is an. extraordinary. claim that requires extraordinary. evidence it's very unlikely we might be. alone in fact Elon Musk motivates the.

idea that SpaceX should bring people to. Mars because we have a duty we might be. the. only conscious beings in the entire. universe I don't think so he didn't. really search for others and the whole. point is scientific knowledge does not. fall into our lap you know it's it. requires a lot of work so Elon Musk said. well I have all these communication. satellites and none of them collided.

with an unidentified flying object a UFO. therefore I haven't seen any evidence. for. aliens that's not the right approach I I. actually calculated this week that if. you were to consider a meter siiz object. you know um moving around at an altitude. of 550 kilm where Elon Musk. communication satellites are it will. only collide with one of these 6,000. uh Starling satellites in a thousand.

years so so um this is not really a good. measure and moreover if there are any. functioning devices near Earth they. might be at much lower altitudes they. might be doing something else they will. not collide with communication satellite. in fact you want to use sensors to look. up and my whole point is that the. intelligent thing to do is actually be. curious and humble and we find it really.

hard we keep insisting that we are at. the center of the universe if you know. before Nicola Copernicus that you. mentioned it was thought that we are at. the center and the church um promoted. that idea because people feel better if. they are at the center of attention and. so then Nicolas Copernicus was a priest. by the way I learned it when I went to. he was a priest he didn't want to rock.

the. boat and he wanted to help the church so. he realized the church is unable to. figure out exactly when Easter is they. have a model where the Earth is at the. center and everything moves around the. earth and they get Easter Wrong by a few. days so he said well let's think about. it if we look at all the data and we put. the sun in the middle it actually works. quite well we can figure out when Easter. is quite accurately so he gave the. church this model where the sun was in.

the middle of the solar system and they. said great we will use your model but we. will ban your book it the book was. forbidden until the 19th century because. they said the Earth is still they didn't. want to change the public perception and. um so they said in reality the Earth is. at the center but this is a theoretical. model that we will use to figure Out. Easter and the the lesson from this is.

that you know sometimes it's important. to rock the boat if the boat is going in. the wrong direction and our boat right. now if you look at. politics at everything it's not going in. the right direction and I'm trying to. Rocket My Hope Is you know if we find. evidence for a. neighbor it will change everything. because first we would realize there is.

someone more accomplished than we are. out there and perhaps you know just like. finding a smarter student in your class. you you can learn from from from it you. know and second it will inspire us to do. better to go to space to preserve. ourselves you know we live for less than. 120 years which is one part in a 100. million of the age of the universe. live for such a short time and yet we.

engage in wars and conflicts that. shorten this time that we are on this. Earth even more does that sound. intelligent to you no so my hope is you. know there are religions talking about. Messiah coming to Earth bringing peace. and. understanding um My Hope Is that the. Messiah will not necessarily come from. this Earth that it will would come. from another star and would give us a.

better perspective about how to. handle ourselves as the human species to. do better. basically and um you know maybe I can. help bring it the message to us that. that's really my hope so that's these. are examples for. questions that you asked me what are. some of the existential questions you. know these two are are and and you know.

another thing I wanted to mention is. that in uh. 1882 Fred. nche a philosopher. declared God is dead okay and by the way. he belonged to the same nation that. killed six million. Jews a century. later um. but it also led to the uis that you find.

nowadays uh without spirituality where. Science and Technology. celebrated and there is no sense of a. purpose other than enjoying yourself you. know and um and. um perhaps finding a superum entity out. there will bring back the sense of. O that Rel religion did bring you know a. sense of modesty humility you are not.

the most powerful thing there is someone. else out there you know when Moses in. the Old. Testament he saw the burning bush that. was never. consumed and that convinced Moses that. God exists nowadays you can buy online a. burning bush that was will never be. consumed and it would have impressed. Moses all I'm saying is. technology when it's Advanced enough. well beyond what we possess right now.

can show up as a miracle can be very. impressive convince us that there is. something much more powerful than us and. this dose of modesty is really needed. now very interesting I I want to go all. the way back to when we were talking. about the universe. expanding and the Big. Bang what I've heard this so many times. I've watched so many videos and I I'm. just like I said I am fascinated with.

this but how how is it that we're able. to know that it's I. mean have we found the edge of it by the. way just a comment footnote I'm in the. trenches I'm doing science I write a few. papers every month there are some people. who publicize science claim that they're. defending science and if you check their. record they haven't published a single. scientific paper over the past decade.

it's similar to commentators that are. watching a soccer match and telling the. players how to pass the ball I'm one of. those players how dare they when they. criticize me you know not doing any. science how dare they represent. science so that's just a side comment. but coming back to your question about. the universe there is no Edge we haven't. seen any Edge so again think about this.

balloon that is expanding it has no Edge. the uh you can walk around the balloon. but there is no Edge to it and space. itself as far as we can see all the way. to the time of the Big Bang as far as we. can. see the conditions were the same. everywhere to one part in a. 100,000 and moreover we can also say. what lies beyond the region that we can. see the region that we can see is the. distance that light traversed since the.

Big B 13.8 billion years ago so as I. said we can reverse the movie backwards. and we calculate the time that elapsed. since the point of that big bang. Singularity it's 13.8 billion years and. gladly we see that everything in the. universe is younger than that we haven't. seen anything older than 13.8 billion. years so it hangs together we have a lot. of evidence that shows that everything. started 13.8 billion years ago we can. even see the radiation that was left.

from this early hot and dense phase it's. called The Cosmic microwave background. discovered by chance in the. 1960s um. but the point is everywhere we look we. see that the Universe started the same. to one part in. 100,000 and even beyond the region that. we can see if you go to a distance that. is 4,000 times bigger the conditions. must have been the same because if there. was a cliff if there was an edge it.

would have affected what we see so we. can tell that not only that there are a. trillion galaxies like the Milky Way in. the volume that we can see but also. beyond that if you go 4,000 times. farther conditions must have been the. same and the other thing to keep in mind. is as we go as we go deeper into the. universe we see light that was emitted. at an earlier time because it had to. make the journey to reach us by now so.

we can see actually photographs of the. universe when it was younger wow I mean. when you look at the mirror uh if it's. let's say a few feet away from you it. just takes a few Nan seconds for the. light to cross that distance so in. principle you are looking at an image. that is younger than you are because it. the light bounced off your face face. went to the mirror and back to your eyes.

some time ago so you're looking at. yourself at a younger so you're looking. back in time yeah but if you put the. mirror a light year away then you would. see yourself the way you looked two. years ago because of the time it takes. the light to go from your face to the. mirror and back and we can look all the. way back to the beginning of the. University we can see how the universe. looked like earlier and it all hangs. together to an extreme. Precision at the level of percent.

percents so we have a lot of data by now. that is fully consistent with this. picture and the only problem is if we. calculate what will happen in the future. uh it looks very lonely uh we will be. left in our own. Galaxy uh with the stars that are in the. Milky Way actually also the stars of the. nearest neighbor the Andromeda galaxy. will join us within a few billion years.

the that Galaxy is heading on a. collision course with the Milky Way I. wrote the first. paper calculating what will happen the. night sky will change because right now. the Milky Way is a. dis of stars and. gas um and our sister Galaxy Andromeda. is similar but when the two will collide. the Stars will uh mix in their orbits. will make what is called an elliptical. galaxy so the night sky a few billion.

years from now will look very different. the sun will still be around but we may. be tossed away from the center of the. combined Galaxy which I termed milom. Meda um but in the very long future once. the universe will age by a factor of 10. or so all the galaxies that we see will. not be visible to us anymore so if if. the. the so many questions if the universe is.

expanding and everything's moving. farther and further apart from each. other how are we going to collide with. another galaxy oh excellent question. it's just that this Andromeda galaxy was. made in a region that was quite. dense and it's not following the cosmic. expansion so you can ask why aren't. atoms expanding with the universe or why. isn't the solar system expanding with. the universe the answer is that it's.

held together by a force that is far. greater than the repulsive gravity that. is causing the accelerated expansion of. the universe so so systems that are. bound by a strong force they don't care. about the cosmic expansion you need to. go to very large. scales of millions of light years before. the cosmic expansion rules the behavior. of objects and that that's why in the. solar system you know we don't need to.

lose any sleep about the expansion so. when when you say the solar system when. you say the excuse me not the solar when. you say the universe is expanding and. that there is no Edge right what is. beyond we don't know so so the farthest. we can see is back in time to the. beginning of the univers to the Big Bang. that's all we can see and we can infer. that conditions are similar to what we. see out to a distance at least 4,000. times bigger than what we can see but.

beyond that we have no clue and so does. that. mean the way I thought about. this 30 seconds prior to you talking. about this was that I I I. envisioned because I've heard we have. multiple universes do okay so here we. come to a situation where some. scientists are not following the. scientific method in the sense that. they're saying okay obviously we can't. get any data or evidence about what lies.

beyond the region that we can. see but let's speculate so maybe there. are many other regions of space where. conditions are quite different it's. called The. Multiverse and maybe anything that can. happen will happen an infinite number of. times in other places now why is that a. good idea for some people because if you.

are a student and you get a D in an. exam then you can say well that's not a. big deal because there must be another. region of the Multiverse where I get an. A if anything that can happen will. happen in infinite number of times I. shouldn't be distressed about what. happens right here right now so it takes. away responsibility from people and I. have a problem with that because we have. no evidence that such regions exist but. it became a very popular idea. because if you use quantum.

mechanics you can make the case that. very early on in the. universe the conditions that we have in. our regions region of space you know. there were many there could have been. many other regions with very different. conditions because of quantum mechanics. the conditions could have been very. different and as a result of that. anything that could happen will happen. an infinite number of times if space is.

indefinite. infinite I have a problem this is a. speculation. nevertheless it's popular in the. mainstream of theoretical physics there. is another speculation very popular that. there are extra Dimensions that we live. in three spal dimensions and time but. there could be additional spal. dimensions that's a popular idea and. there is even a whole branch of. theoretical physics called string theory.

that is exploring the implications of. that assumption and claiming that. perhaps we can unify quantum mechanics. and gravity the only problem is when you. ask them to predict what happened before. the Big Bang they say it's too. complicated when you ask string theorist. to tell you what lies at the center of a. black hole where again Einstein's theory. breaks down they say it's too. complicated so I ask you you know if you. have a plumber coming to your home and.

you say can you please fix the toilet. for me the plumber says it's too. complicated and then you say well would. you mind please you know I have a leaky. pipe in the kitchen could you fix that. and the plumber says no I can't this is. too complicated as well but but he says. if you look at the metaverse you know. this thing that you watch when you put. goggles on your head as Mar asks you to. do if you go there you know there I am a.

very accomplished. plumber um that's pretty much the sense. that I get from speaking with string. theories because they talk about things. that I cannot. verify but when I ask them to do a task. that will resolve a puzzle in. fundamental. physics they say it's too too difficult. string theory is the theory that. everything is connected correct well no. it's it's supposed to be the fundamental.

Theory theory of reality where quantum. mechanics and gravity two pillars of. modern physics are unified and the way. they are unified is with the use of. extra Dimensions I'll I'll tell you a. funny story an anecdote uh a year ago I. had breakfast with a string theorist and. I asked him what was your most important. scientific ific. paper and he said it's a paper I wrote.

and that is a distinguished scholar a. paper I wrote about super symmetry which. is a new symmetry of nature that was. used by string theories and other. theoretical physicist the only problem. is the large hyron collider which. smashes particles at the highest. energies at CERN looked for this. symmetry Tree in its natural parameter. space and couldn't find evidence for it.

so it was ruled out in the original. natural parameter space where super. symmetry was supposed to show up when we. smash particles at very high. energies so then I tell my friend I say. well why would you be proud of a. paper for which there is no evidence and. in fact there was the experimented serm. that didn't find super Symmetry and he. said well because I'm not worried. because maybe if we build a bigger uh.

particle collider we will find. that and that reminded me of the Jewish. Orthodox community in Brooklyn New York. Crown Heights the. luers where they had a theory that their. Rabbi once he. dies he will come back as the. Messiah and then he died. and didn't come. back so that's a data point right you.

had a theory now you have. data the theory is not supported by the. data what did they. say we just have to. wait so I ask you what's the difference. between a believer in religion and a. believer in physics. in the point is science is supposed to. be attentive to.

evidence in other words there are plenty. of good. ideas that are just not describing. reality and how do we figure it out we. have the gillotin of experiments that. chops the head of ideas that are not. matching the evidence so you have to. forget about it and move on but to call. your paper. successful when experiments disprove. that theory is really the wrong ude very. interesting very interesting back to the.

universe expansion okay so Bas so I'm. just trying to understand this and so. the way I'm understanding it is let's. say we have. a telescope in the center of the. us and this the telescope cannot see. past the borders of the United States. okay it doesn't mean there's nothing. there it just means it doesn't mean. there's an edge it doesn't mean by the. way the best telescope we have uhhuh can.

resolve a human hair from. California to Boston wow wow can you. believe. that no but but so it doesn't mean that. there's nothing there it just means that. we cannot see beyond the Border we don't. have the capability to see beyond the. border right is that correct yes and. that's kind of what we're what you're. saying we are in situation simply. because light did not have enough time. to reach us from greater distances okay.

but it's a fundamental limit because as. I said before now the universe is. accelerating you're actually losing what. you already saw in your so it's as if. you're sitting in a room and as you say. you can't see beyond the walls but then. people are leaving your room things are. the room is getting leing so you will. even know less you're sitting in the. middle of the US and and and let's say. you're in Chicago and you're looking at. Los Angeles eventually Los Angeles will.

be it will have expanded so much that. you can no longer not be able to see. what's happening there and you will not. get any updates on social media from any. of your friends then so the more time. that passes the the the the the Le yes. we are losing information exactly and. there is an I wrote a paper about it. when the accelerated expansion of the. universe was discovered at Harvard. actually the and and um my paper said. that um you know the the future of.

astronomy is gloomy in the distant. future we we know less we will see less. uh and the question is like imagine a. trillion years from now by the way there. will be plenty of stars still burning a. trillion years from now the the most. common stars are a tenth of the mass of. the Sun and they live for a few trillion. years okay so there still a trillion. years is a 100 times more than the. current age of the universe so imagine. us uh then and you will basically see.

emptiness Darkness around our own. Galaxy why would people believe in the. story of The Big Bang at that point. there is nothing beyond our galaxy and. it will become a story being. told just like in religion you know you. wouldn't be able to find evidence for. the radiation that came from the early. Universe cuz by by then it would get. rarified so much you wouldn't be able to. detect it so it's really interesting.

that the origins story of how the. universe started will not allow itself. to be revealed through looking at the. sky if the universe will continue to. accelerate its expansion a trillion. years from. now wow wow let's talk. about uh Dark Energy okay so it sounds. like. that not long ago we thought that it was.

just empty space there was nothing in. there there nothing in between the. distance right between matter and matter. now it sounds. like we. have we have discovered that there. actually is a lot of matter and is it. energy well mass and energy are the same. according to Einstein um he basically. had this uh Insight that energy equals.

mass times the speed of light squared e. equal. mc² and that was demonstrated with. atomic bomb you know like a small. fraction of mass was converted to a huge. amount of. energy uh and that's how the Sun Shines. it burns it fuses hydrogen atoms and. makes heavier. uh nuclei and in the process of doing.

that it releases energy so the sun is. losing right now. six billion tons every. second it's losing mass 6 billion tons. every second in the form of its. radiation mostly radiation coming out. but also the solar wind there is a wind. of particles coming out and we see it. it's very it shows very in a very. colorful display in our Sky just over.

the past week there was uh a geomagnetic. storm uh that showed up uh as the Aurora. uh these beautiful colors are the. interaction of the solar. wind with the magnetic field that. surrounds Earth and uh it creates very. energetic particles moving along the. field lines bombarding atoms Like Oxygen. molecular nitrogen and.

these atoms or molecules get excited and. they emit the blue red and green lights. that we see in the sky as an aurora so. the sun is losing mass but it's also. losing radiation and altogether 6. billion. tons of. matter uh. so it's a small fraction of the mass of. the Sun but mass is equivalent to energy.

and the dark energy is just this. constituent that. fills the the. universe and it makes the vacuum so it's. the same. everywhere and the only effect that it. has is on gravity because usually in any. other process other than gravity all you. care about is the energy difference. between different states you trans. transition from one state to another and. you care much how much energy that.

requires or that releases so if the. vacuum has the same energy everywhere. you don't care about it but gravity says. you know needs to know how much energy. or mass there is per unit volume and and. if the vacuum contributes to that it. affects the expansion of the universe. and Einstein at first introduced the. vacuum in order to make the universe not. expand at the time when he came up with. his theory of gravity that was November.

uh. 1915 uh it was not known that the. universe is expanding so Einstein said. well doesn't make sense that the. Universe started at a specific point in. time it makes more sense that the. Universe existed forever so how can I. keep the universe forever if I balance. the attractive gravity of matter with. the repulsive gravity of the vacuum so. he put exactly a perfect balance between. the two but then it was realized a.

decade later that in fact the universe. is expanding so. Einstein regretted making that. suggestion thought that it was a mistake. as it turns out the vacuum does have a. mass density it's just early on it was. not significant at all so the universe. expanded and then right now it's. dominating so what is it is not known we. don't know whether we can excavate it uh. whether we can use it because it's.

negative gravity you know and one thing. I thought about you know in 1957 there. was a British physicist named Herman. Bondi who realized that Einstein's. gravity allows for a negative mass in. principle I mean we know that any Mass. we see is positive right it's attractive. gravity brings things together but he. said what what if just like in. electromagnetism you know you have a.

positive electric charge and a negative. electric charge so in. electromagnetism positive charges repel. each other and positive and negative. charges attract each other in gravity. positive masses attract each other but. if you were to introduce a negative Mass. it will repel the positive Mass so if he. realized that if you take a positive. mass and a negative Mass put them next. to each other the positive mass will. attract the negative Mass towards it and.

the negative mass will push the positive. Mass away from it so this. pair will accelerate. indefinitely it's like a rocket without. a fuel it will accelerate to the speed. of light he realized that so if you. think oh that's great so maybe we can. build a. spaceship that has a positive mass and a. negative Mass Mass if we can take let's. say the vacuum energy from the cosmic.

expansion if you can engineer it put it. in a. vessel enhance. its. density and then we'll get a negative. Mass if we can do that and put it next. to a positive Mass we'll have a. spaceship that doesn't need any fuel and. will accelerate as much as we want the. problem is that it if you introduce. negative masses this is something that b. did not. realize if you introduce a negative Mass.

you can build a time machine meaning. that you can in principle go back in. time and kill your. grandfather and that will be a problem. because if you kill your grandfather how. come you. exist so physicists don't like the idea. of time machines because it leads to. contradictions and if you have a. negative Mass you can build a time. machine how do I know that. because when you take a positive Mass. like you know the Sun the Earth positive.

Mass you pass a light beam next to. it the light is delayed time is ticking. more slowly near a positive Mass this. was realized by a colleague of mine at. Harvard named Irwin Shapiro who is now. in his 90s but he calculated how much. delay the light would suffer when it. passes near a positive Mass according to. Einstein's theory of gravity and that. was measured and.

verified now imagine replacing the. positive Mass with a negative Mass. instead of delaying the light you will. advance it it will actually move. faster and that's a problem because once. you make light move faster you can. create a time machine cuz you can then. in principle visit your. past and if you don't believe the time. going back in time is. possible then negative masses should not.

exist in the. universe how would you how would you go. back in. timean what so the idea is that um in. principle you can build a time machine. using negative masses such that you go. next to the negative mass and you come. back to your Source at an earlier time. than you left your. Source wow so that means that you you.

know You' go out and then back and back. and and and you arrive before you. left and of course you know it poses a. problem because as I said you can. prevent yourself from making the trip. and so that there would be a logical. inconsistency there there is a lot of. debate about whether moving faster than. light is possible whether going back in. time is allowed most physicists think.

that it's forbidden because it leads to. inconsistencies and um if that's the. case there shouldn't be any negative. masses you're blow my mind here ri this. is a paper that I'm writing right now by. the way it's not out yet so I'm giving. you the latest very. interesting I want to talk about you. brought up CERN. what are they doing there there's a lot. I actually visited CERN you visited CERN.

yeah because they invited me to give a. public lecture uh just a few months ago. and it was a very fun visit to go. through the various experiments that. they have there they smash particles at. very high energies they create. antimatter um I was there to discuss. extraterrestrials and. um uh it was interesting to see what. they are doing but. um at dinner when there were a number of.

um High net worth individuals that came. to dinner and sat with. me and out of a group of about a dozen. people at dinner two of them said that. they saw. some unidentified objects very unusual. objects for example one of them said. that 20 years ago he saw a giant object. in the sky that was moving so fast that. it could move faster than fighter jets.

that were chasing it at the time of. course he didn't have any record of that. but what I found interesting is that. there are people who saw very unusual. things I never had an experience myself. but as I said I'm curious so it raises. my interest and and that's what the. Galileo project is all about we are. trying to collect evidence in the. scientific way and figure out whether. there are things in the. sky that we cannot explain and the point.

is that you know that the sky is not. classified the US government has a day. job which is National Security so. obviously they're monitoring the sky. looking for things that may belong to. adversarial Nations that are spying on. the. US but if something came from outside. the solar system that's not part of the. day. job that's my day job. as an. astrophysicist so if they say that they.

looked at 99% of the objects as the old. domain anomaly resolution office is. saying right now in the. Pentagon that may be impressive for. their own record to say that they. understand most of the objects in the. US because from a national security. perspective that's good to know you know. and mhm but from a scientist point of. view you know it's not very impressive.

because even if one in a billion objects. that you look at in the sky and by the. way we looked at a million objects. already in the last few months with the. Galileo project we built an observatory. that monitors the entire Sky all the. time so even if one in a billion happens. to be from outside of this. Earth it will be a huge message to. deliver to humanity that we are not. alone there is something out there so. I'm really interested in the rare.

objects obviously there is a lot of crap. in the sky that we produce balloons. drones. airplanes these are boring as far as I'm. concerned if I see a bird you I'll be. happy to give all these images to a. zoologist if if we see in the G project. we see um Chinese balloons you know. happy to deliver all this information to. Washington these are boring objects as. far as I'm concerned I just want to see. if there is anything else that is not.

familiar and you know it's a matter of. being. curious why should we have an opinion. without seeking the. evidence we should look for the evidence. and figure out what's out there you know. if we find a tennis ball in our backyard. we will know that the neighbor plays. tennis great point before we get too. into the Galileo Pro project I just I am. very interested in CERN okay.

is there's a lot of conspiracies around. CERN there's a nobody really seems to. know what's going on you're the first. legitimate person that I've talked to. that's actually been there ask me. anything is there are they there's a lot. of talk about CERN trying to open up. some type of a portal is there any no uh. I mean if There Was You Know actually. the the situation right now with the.

large hydron collider is that aside from. finding a prediction made in the. 60s to be correct which was the. discovery of the higs. boson we haven't discovery of the what. the higs boson there was a a particle. that is really fundamental to the. standard model of physics H it gives all. the particles their. masses and it was realized that such a.

particle should Exist by several. independent groups but one of the. original authors of of the papers that. were written about it back in the 60s. his name was Peter higs he just passed. away recently and so it's called the. higs boson if it's called after him. initially his paper was not accepted for. publication and then he wanted because. he just talked about some uh Symmetry. and and then he want he refined it to.

make it a little more edgy so that it. will be accepted for publication and. mentioned the fact that the model. predicts a particle and now the particle. is called the higs boson boson is a type. of particle that actually likes to be in. groups of other particles in exactly the. same state for example the photon is a. the particle of light is. a boson in the sense that if you put a. lot of photons together they.

actually uh enjoy that in the sense that. that's what a laser is a laser is a lot. of photons in exactly the same state the. same frequency the same phase and that's. why laser beam is so powerful but the. other type of particles they're not so. social they're called fermion after. Enrico. fery uh the name bosons is after. Bose in Indian physicist so ferion are.

particles that do not allow others of. their type to be in the same state so. the electron is a fermon and an electron. does not allow another electron to be in. the same state the same energy the same. moment the same place uh and so as a. result of that if if you. consider a a metal it's basically a lot. of electrons packed together in a very. cold state but they don't allow each. other to be in the same location and so.

as a result of that if you try to. compress a metal you have resistance to. that and that's why a metal is a solid. very uh dense state of matter that is. not that where compression requires a. lot of force and so at any event the. hick boson it's a boson um was. discovered in 2012 by the large hydron. collider when it smashed nuclei at very.

high energy and produced it so they. discovered this particle and the Nobel. Prize was awarded for this discovery it. was very. important uh it was um. 40 actually 50 years after the uh. original conception of this particle and. nevertheless it was very significant but. it was old news and a lot of physicists. were hoping for something completely new. coming from the large hyron.

collider uh but nothing was announced. nothing was found as of yet and of. course there are plenty of physicist. that would be delighted to get a Nobel. Prize for a new discovery of fundamental. physics that's why I don't think. anything it's not like the government. there is a huge incentive for physicist. to come forward if they have good. evidence so there is not nothing there. at the. moment thank you for clarifying that AI.

before we move on I forgot to do so. everybody gets a gift that comes on the. show thank you thank you so much we. should have done this about an hour ago. but uh those are vigilance gummy bears a. little something for the ride home thank. you but um moving into some of the stuff. you're doing right now I know you're you. are. interested in the nearest black hole to. Earth right can.

you can you tell us a little bit about. that but and start with what exactly is. a black. hole so a black hole was the first. solution to Einstein's equations of. gravity that back then in. 1915 there were no. computers and the equations are very. complex but um a German. physicist named Carl.

schwar he was 40 years old the the head. of the Potsdam. Observatory and he was a patriot by the. way Einstein was a. pacifist so the first world war. started and U schwar Shield who was very. distinguished was drafted to the. military went to the front want. um against the Russians and.

um when he was there he realized that he. can solve Einstein's. equations for a point Mass if you. take matter and condense it to a point. he could solve the SpaceTime around. that and he sent a postcard to Einstein. who publicized it in Germany because he. didn't participate in the war and uh. within a few months after that schwell.

died from a rare lung disease which. shows you that being a pacifist is. better if you want to derive the. consequences of a theory because. Einstein lived much. longer uh at an event schwar is. remembered for finding the structure of. SpaceTime around a black hole now what. does it mean. how can you make such a point Mass one. way to think of it is imagine a star a.

very massive star let's say tens of. times the mass of the. sun burning nuclear fuel a star is just. a nuclear reactor held together by. gravity that's it okay so you know we. have a difficult time creating Fusion. reactors on Earth because confining them. is difficult with magnetic fields but. but in nature they appear everywhere. these are the stars you know they are. confined by gravity and at the core of a.

star the temperature is tens of millions. of degrees and. so it B that that nuclear reactor burns. the fuel which is mainly hydrogen left. over from the Big. Band by the way it was not clear to. people that the sun is made mostly of. hydrogen so 100 years. ago uh and the first PhD in astronomy. astronomy at Harvard University was.

written by Cecilia pain. kashkin and she. realized that when looking at the. surface of the Sun uh she can infer the. composition of the surface and realize. that it it's mostly probably. hydrogen and she wrote it in her thesis. and then the chair of the of the thesis. committee uh Henry Norris Russell who. was the director of the Princeton.

University Observatory said you need to. remove that statement because we all. know that the sun is made of the same. materials as. Earth she removed it of course she. wasn't as confident at a young age and. uh and then for four years he checked. the data and concluded that she was. right and it's not only the son but the. entire universe is mostly hydrogen the. ordinary matter that that at any.

event Stars Burn hydrogen into heavier. elements that's why we exist because the. Big Bang didn't have heavy elements it. had mostly hydrogen and helium so Life. as we know it was not possible we are a. byproduct we were not part of the cosmic. plan by the way this is something we. need to remember that we arrived late in. Cosmic history we arriv late to the play. we are not at the center of.

stage so the play is not about. us and if we want to learn more about. the cosmic play we better find other. actors who may have been around for. longer than us MH but coming back to the. Stars they. burn. hydrogen and produce the energy that we. see out coming out of stars now when a. star has more.

than tens of times the mass of the. Sun it has such a strong gravity that. when the fuel is consumed there is no. more. fuel. gravity pulls it together and it cannot. stop the. collapse and it ends up draining. all the mass that made the star into a. black hole at the center so that's one.

way to make black holes by massive stars. collapsing now you ask okay what is the. final product the black hole that you. get from. that it's empty space because all the. mass went to the center so to. speak but it's an extreme structure of. space and. time because schwar Shield realized if. the black hole is not spinning if uh. that there is a certain distance from.

the. center inside of which nothing can. escape it's the ultimate prison even if. you move at the speed of light you. cannot escape from that. region so think of a black hole uh as. the ultimate prison and the walls of. that prison. cell is the so-called Event Horizon. inside of which everything is hidden so.

a black hole is just like Vegas whatever. happens there stays there okay um but. you can also make a black hole by taking. a big cloud of. gas and letting it collapse that's what. happens at the centers of. galaxies so just to give you a sense if. if you were to fill the orbit of Jupiter. around the sun with.

water a huge swimming. pool it will make a black hole of about. 100 million times the mass of the. Sun so the bigger the black hole is the. less dense is the material that can make. it when a star makes a black hole the. density of matter gets higher than the. density of an atomic nucleus. but when you make those super massive. black holes at the centers of galaxies.

you can make them out of rarified gas. clouds that just contract and once you. have the seed black hole it keeps. collecting more and more gas from it. just like a drain you know that uh water. circles into the gas in the center of a. galaxy is getting consumed by the sink. at the center and you can also have. stars if the if a star comes Clos to a. black hole that is not too massive then. it will get ripped apart and shredded.

and you spaghettify the star create. spaghetti out of it and the stream of. gas we see those events where stars are. getting destroyed by coming close to a. black hole that has a mass less than 100. million times the mass of the Sun so. that's in a nutshell you've actually. seen Stars be consumed by black holes. yes star stars like the sun coming too. close to a black hole of less than 100.

million times the mass of the Sun and. they get ripped. apart and before they enter the horiz. The Event Horizon so then the gas that. they leave behind in a stream of of. debris circles the black hole and. creates a flare of radiation the amazing. thing about black holes even though. they're black in the sense that nothing. can escape from the inside when gas is. circling the black hole it's it's moving.

at a very high speed approaching the. speed of light and if the stream of gas. intersects itself of or if there is. turbulence or viscosity to the gas then. it shines very brightly so ironically. the brightest sources of light in the. universe are actually those super. massive black holes that we see now with. the web telescope all the way back into. time to when the universe was just a few. perc of its present age wow so these big.

black holes form very early and I. actually worked out a theory that may. that could explain early formation of. those seeds out of very massive stars. that formed the centers of galaxies can. you see both sides of a black hole or is. it just one well it's just a a a. spherical region you can go around it is. it like a is it shaped like a donut no.

it's a more like a sphere if it's not. spinning if it's spinning then it looks. like a. disc um but um the interesting question. that has no answer at the moment is what. happens to the metal that falls into a. black hole because Einstein's theory of. gravity predicts that it will increase. its density again indefinitely just like. like in the Big Bang and then the theory. breaks down because it can't really tell. us what happens you need a a theory that.

unifies quantum mechanics and gravity to. tell us what happens at the center of a. black hole and you know I once had a. flood in the basement of my home and uh. I went with a plumber down to the. basement and I realized actually you. know I I never thought about this um it. would appear natural to me that the. water is Flowing out of my home but we. realize that actually there is uh the. sewer is clogged by tree roots okay and.

The Roots were blocking the sewer and so. the water flooded the basement so that. in the hours that I was helping the. plumber to fix the problem I thought. about a black hole what. happens if there is no. portal uh or sink at the center of a. black hole because some people say well. maybe the matter goes there and then. exits somewhere else but no suppose it's. really.

clogged so what will happen is that the. matter will collect at the maximum. density that matter can have which. physicists call the plank density so the. way I Envision that is maybe there is an. extremely dense object at the center of. a black hole and it keeps collecting. matter that falls into it we don't know. if that is the reality because we don't. have a theory of quantum gravity and. there is one way to find out if you. enter a black hole you might find what.

happens inside of it but then you won't. be able to submit a paper for. publication on Earth because no. information can come out so you know I. when I propose to physicist to enter a. black hole and figure out quantum. gravity they think that I have an. alterior motive that of sending them. into a black. hole but um. you you know you may ask okay are we at. risk that a black hole would ever impact.

Earth and consume. it turns out that the nearest black hole. to Earth is about 100 light years away. based on how many we expect in the Milky. Way galaxy not very close to us there is. no risk that it will cross the solar. system. but there is a possibility that most of. the matter in the universe is black. holes we we don't know what most of the. matter in the universe is about 84% of.

the matter is invisible to us we call it. dark matter you know we keep saying that. we understand the universe but we don't. know most of the matter and we don't. know most of the energy which is in the. form of dark energy or or the. cosmological constant that I mentioned. before so the Dark Matter could. potentially be tiny black holes left. over from The Big Bang that have um the. masses of asteroids for.

example and if that's the case there. should be many of them crossing the. solar system uh but the chance of one of. them passing through Earth is really. small you wouldn't expect that very. often maybe over billions of years but. and in fact these black holes have a. size is their Event Horizon is the size. of an atomic nucleus so really tiny. unless they go through your.

body nothing bad will happen they they. just go through Earth they don't affect. anything so um maybe the nearest black. hole is much closer than we anticipate. based on the collapse of stars you know. which is the 100 light years that I. mentioned. before but it will be harmless unless. they pass through through your body and. the chance for that is completely. negligible I don't think that.

any uh insurance companies need to worry. about. it I mean how how would you. [Music]. even how do we study these black holes. yeah how do we study well we can. see the radiation emitted by the hot gas. that is swirling around them so for. example um I was the founding director. of the black hole initiative at Harvard.

University and that's a a program that. brings together physicists astronomers. mathematicians and philosophers that are. interested in black hols and one of the. accomplishments of that um initiative. was taking an image of a black hole. which appeared in all major newspapers. in 2019. uh basically it's an image of a giant. black hole in a nearby Galaxy called m87.

and uh what you see is the shadow of the. black hole being illuminated by some. back light from the hot gas swirling. around it so you see a ring of light. around a dark region and that's the. silhouette of the black hole because the. radiation going into the black hole can. never come out you see it as a dark. region surrounded by a ring of light. because the gravity is so strong that it.

can focus light just like a lens this is. called gravitational lensing and that. focusing of light creates an image of a. bright ring with the silhouette of the. black hole in the middle so we already. have that photograph and we know that. black holes are. real uh this particular black hole is. huge it's um about six billion times the. mass of the Sun uh and actually getting.

into it would not be harmful to. astronauts if you cross the Event. Horizon you wouldn't be torn apart uh. because it's such a gigantic black hole. that the difference in force between. your legs and your head is tolerable. it's not it's not a problem at all the. problem starts when you get very close. to the center The Singularity where you. will get ripped apart and I once. described this in answer to a question.

uh in my daughter's class um and when I. got to describe what happens to the. human body when it comes very close to. the center of a black hole the teacher. stopped me and said please don't. continue any further because it will. create nightmares to the kids but they. were really curious about it I mean a. black hole is a fascinating thing it's a. structure of space and time empty and. you know it's the most extreme.

realization of Einstein's idea that. space and time are curved just think. about it before Einstein we thought of. gravity as being a force so the sun. exerts a force on the earth that orbits. around it Einstein said no all objects. follow exactly the same behavior under. the influence of gravity therefore it. has nothing to do with a force it it's a. property of space and time that affects. all. objects and he basically made the.

analogy just think about a trampoline. being the space time okay okay if you. put a a very heavy ball in the middle of. the trampoline it curves the surface. right and. then um so imagine now a. marble moving around um so if you give. it just the right kick it will move in a. circle around the heavy ball in the. curved surface of the trampoline will. just move in a circle around it if you.

now were to remove that heavy ball from. the center the marble will continue on a. straight. line on the flat surface and so the same. applies to gravity in the context of. Einstein. where the space around the Sun is curved. such that the Earth is trying to go on a. straight line but actually because of. the curvature of space it's moving in a. circle around the Sun and if you remove. the Sun the Earth will continue in a.

straight line. indefinitely so there's an invisible. fabric it's it sounds like of space and. time and it's being curved. by. masses and in the context of the. universe there is a mass distributed. throughout the volume of the universe. and it affects the way it expands. so if if you're saying. that we know the universe is expanding.

and it's becoming less dense correct. right so if it's if it continues to. expand and become diluted or less. dense then wouldn't that fabric will. will that fabric ever stop evolving no. it will will it become. I mean it sounds like this the fabric of. space might become weaker as the.

universe expands and so what I'm asking. would that throw planets Earth Moon no. out of orbit because because because. it's less dense but be able to hold no. because the thing is that the solar. system the planets orbiting the Sun they. are held together by a. force or by they're held together by the. local conditions that are far stronger. than gravity on a very large scale in. the universe so just think about the.

atom okay the electron is bound to a. nucleus by the electric force the. electric force is many orders of. magnitude larger than gravity so the. fact that the universe is expanding in. some way doesn't affect the atom it. stays the same it's as if you have a. leash that you keep the. electron tied up to the proton you know. and you don't let it be part of the. cosmic expansion so the same thing is. true for the solar system it's much.

denser than the average density of the. universe you know the average density of. the universe. is 29 orders of magnitude less than the. density of this. table uh so that means one with 29 zeros. less dense there is roughly one atom per. cubic meter in terms of the mass density. in the universe like it's really per. cubic meter meter. yeah wow uh that's the average density.

of the universe if the universe was. denser than that it would have collapsed. back to a point I mean to a infinite. density by now so if the universe is. expanding when will it be 1 atom per 2. cubic met oh in the near future billion. years from now. and so you know you just have to be. patient and and as as I said before it's. not only that things get diluted but. they get.

diluted. exponentially so as time goes on you. know they get separated by a speed that. gets higher and. higher do you think that I mean this is. going back sorry I have so many. questions do when we talk about the. univers is expanding and galaxies plan. Stars continue to get farther and. farther and and and apart from each.

other and is techn will our technology. be able to outpace the expansion of the. Universe um yes so I actually addressed. that in in in a paper that I wrote how. far can we reach let's say with. propulsion systems given that the. universe is expanding the point is right. now all the spacecraft that we launched. are moving at one part in 10,000 of the. speed of. light since Sputnik to New.

Horizons we haven't changed the chemical. rocket technology that we used and it. can get us to about one part in 10,000. of the speed of. light unfortunately with that speed we. cannot escape the Milky Way galaxy we. the gravity of the Milky Way is. too strong for such Rockets to leave the. Milky Way galaxy so that's in a way good.

news because anyone in the Milky Way. galaxy which is using the same. rocket propulsion that we. used if they. sent objects to Interstellar space these. objects are trapped in the Milky Way. galaxy so they collect like Plastics in. the ocean and we can look for those. objects in our back yard so it's a. blessing the fact that rocketry cannot. get you faster than the Escape speed.

from the Milky Way is a blessing because. we can then look around us and see all. the space. trash that other civilizations polluted. our environment with over billions of. years most of the stars from billions of. years before the. sun the sun is a late bloomer formed. only in the last onethird of cosmic. history and most other stars from. billions of years before that it takes. less than a billion years for Voyager.

for example to go from one side of the. Milky Way to the other less than a. billion. years that means that all the space. trash that was sent by other. civilizations would have reached Us by. now if the star that hosted That. civilization existed you know billions. of years before the Sun so we might be. swimming in an ocean full of plastics. you know and we could find evidence for. other.

civilizations but in order to leave the. the Milky Way we need uh some propulsion. scheme that will at least be 10 times or. 20 times faster than chemical Rockets. it's possible there are ideas that the. various scientists are. exploring even if you use a propulsion. scheme that is a 100 times faster. than chemical. Rockets you could only reach a distance.

that is. about uh 100 million light years from us. which is about 1% less than a perc of. the size of the universe okay wow and. that is. because by the time you get to that. distance the galaxies that used to be. there are now much farther away so there. you cannot catch up with the accelerated. expansion of the universe eventually you. reach your. limit and I calculated that the limit is.

relatively near us even if you enhance. our propulsion method by a factor of 100. if you reach the speed of light or a. fraction of the speed of light which is. something that I explored because I ched. the Breakthrough star shot initiative. the idea was to reach the nearest star. to the Sun Sun within our lifetime so. the nearest star is four light years. away Alpha centari system that has three.

stars actually in. it in order to reach it within 20 years. we need a spacecraft that moves at a. fifth of the speed of. light and the only method that I could. find that might be practical for that. is what is called solar sails or or. light sails basically just think of the. sail on a sailboat it's being pushed by.

the wind which is basically air bouncing. off that sail and giving it a push now. imagine making a very thin film and. Shining Light on it it will also give it. a push so if you take a very powerful. laser of 100 gwatt and shine it of a. very thin. film uh. roughly. um one part in 10,000 of the size of.

your thumb okay so a very thin film that. we use to wrap. sandwiches if you take a such a film and. extend it to a scale of the height of a. person and just shine 100 gwatt of laser. on it and make it a reflective. surface it within a few. minutes this sail which weighs roughly a. few grams will be accelerated to a fifth. of the speed of light across a distance.

that is five times the distance to the. Moon so that was the concept making it. practical is a huge Endeavor but it's in. principle potentially possible so if you. move at a fraction of the speed of light. then you can reach greater distances. beyond the Milky Way. galaxy and if you move very close to the. speed of light you can in principle get. through most of the volume of the.

universe so by the way one thing to keep. in mind we are currently experiencing. one G that's the acceleration that the. Earth puts on our body that's what binds. us gravity to the Earth that's. comfortable we feel comfortable in that. right now you would feel as comfortable. in a spaceship a rocket that is being. accelerated at 1 G you couldn't tell the. difference according to Einstein between.

a rocket that pushes against your body. at. 1G and Earth's gravity you would not be. able to tell the. difference now if you were if we were. sitting on a. rocket accelerating at. 1G then in one year we would reach the. speed of. light one year if you were to continue. to accelerate at 1G for about 20 years. you will get so close to the speed of.

light that time would pass much more. slowly in our frame than in the rest of. the universe so we would be able to. actually cross the. entire scale of the visible. Universe billions of light. years in 20 years on the spacecraft at. 1G. whereas obviously everyone would die on. Earth during that Journey when if we. come back we would not find it I mean.

the. sun uh if if we continue over 7 billion. years and we come back the sun would. already burn its nuclear fuel become a. giant what is called the red giant would. engulf the Earth there will be nothing. left the Earth would be uh burned up and. eventually spiral into the center of the. Sun and the core of the Sun will. become a dense body that is basically. like a piece of metal uh the size of.

Earth carrying about 60% of the. mass of the Sun that is called the white. dwarf so if we made that journey and. came. back you know our home will look very. different than we left it but it's an. amazing thought experiment to think that. if you accelerate at 1G which is very. comfortable a for us we can reach very. close to the speed of light and cross. the entire universe in our. lifetime very interesting very.

interesting let's take a quick break. okay when we come back we'll get into. some extraterrestrial. stuff did you know that only four. companies own over 80% of the US meat. industry and Reports say that China owns. the largest portion of the pork industry. in the US these companies seem like they. are using tactics to try to crush. American Family Farms with the additives.

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project but I wanted to we started. having a pretty interesting conversation. at breakfast about if we think that the. US government is is. hiding any type of. evidence when it comes to UFO UAP. extraterrestrial life phenomenon type. stuff. so I had said yes I do believe they're. hiding something I don't have any hard.

evidence uh but you know I just I just. don't trust the government so they've. lied one too many times and and I didn't. want to get your answer at breakfast I. wanted to wait until the interviews so. I'm I'm. curious what your thoughts are on. that well um astronomers are focusing on. very distant sources of light and. usually a small portion of the.

sky uh and if something flies overhead. they ignore. it however the US government has to. monitor the entire sky and look for. unusual objects because they might. represent. adversarial Nations that are spying on. the US so. while doing so they might have noticed. things that are unusual and I don't.

expect the US government to figure. things out if they're are not made by. humans cuz that they're not a scientific. organization they're dealing with. National Security so the only question. is. whether they provided unusual materials. unusual evidence to. corporations outside. Washington DC whether they uh classified.

such uh information in a way that even. within. government most people are not aware of. it uh and until I see the evidence I. cannot tell from the outside because you. get conflicting reports and because. there is also an effort for to create. some buzz in the public about. unidentified. objects because the US government. develops new technologies and if people. use their cell phones to record.

something. unusual H they might realize what the US. government is doing and therefore there. is an interest on behalf of the. intelligence agencies to create some. Buzz about extraterrestrial objects so. that people would not be suspicious of. the US doing. things uh that I can understand I can. also Imagine a motivation to create some. confusion in other countries about what. the US is capable of and so given all.

the dust that is thrown up uh it's. really difficult to see anything. specific and I spoke for an hour with. David The grash Who testified in the US. Congress under oath and asked him to. mention anything I don't already know. from the public domain and he said that. he's unable to speak about about it and. without that evidence I really have no. way. of believing a.

story because there may be other reasons. for the story to be told. and as a scientist you know I realize. that the sky is not classified the. oceans are not classified why should I. wait for the government to tell me what. lies outside the solar system mhm and so. I am leading the Galileo project which. is trying to collect. evidence and you know for 70 years we've. been searching for radio. signals uh from other civilizations when.

radio communication was used on earth. scientists realized well maybe we can. look for signals from other. civilizations but first of all this is. relatively early in our technological. development we don't use radio. communication as much. nowadays and moreover if you were to. transmit signals uh you are vulnerable. to. um predators in interstellar space and. so it's not clear at all that um such.

signals will be abandoned and we haven't. found anything it's just like waiting. for a phone call at home and you know. nobody May recognize that you're lonely. and moreover you know if other. civilizations are addicted to their. digital screens the way we are right now. they wouldn't care about us so there is. an alternative way which is to look for. Space trash objects that came from our. neighbors. yards and find them near us because they.

are bound to the Milky Way galaxy they. keep accumulating over time like. Plastics in the ocean and we can search. for them and if we. find an object like Voyager One Voyager. 2 Pioneer 10 Pioneer 11 New Horizons the. five Interstellar probes that we are. trashing in interal space with um that. will tell us that someone like us. existed elsewhere and by the way most of.

the scientific Community the astronomy. Community is interested in finding. evidence for microbial life primitive. life because when the earth cooled 4. billion years. ago. microbes immediately. emerged uh but the signature that they. live that we can pick up at a distance. is very subtle they produce some.

molecules that we can search for in the. atmospheres of planets as they orbit. their star so we can look for the. Fingerprints of these molecules like. oxygen. methan carbon dioxide water vapor and. say well if we find these molecules. maybe they are indicative of microbial. life this is where the astronomy. Community wishes to put its funding in. terms of the search for extraterrestrial. life and I say well uh if we were to.

find a gadget that was sent by another. civilization that would be conclusive it. wouldn't be subtle because these. molecular fingerprints can be also. produced by natural processes you can. imagine processes that have nothing to. do with life that make oxygen. methan and you know these could be. processes that have to do with geology. with just natural. chemistry so it it would be debated even. if you invest tens of billions of.

dollars in finding those fingerprints in. the atmospheres of planets that transit. in front of the star and the light from. the Star goes through the atmosphere of. the planet even then if you find it it. would still be debated whether they mean. that there is microbial life or not and. I say if you find a gadget there is no. debate if it's not produced by you. humans is represents Technologies beyond. what we possess if you find industrial. pollution in the same atmospheres of.

other. planets you will have evidence for. molecules that are not produced by. Nature just like CFCs that our. refrigerating systems are producing you. know it's clear it's a clear signature. of technology so we could look for that. we could look for city lights on the. night side of planets these are things. that if we find would tell us that not. only there is life elsewhere but it's.

intelligent and that's why I think that. focusing all our attention on microbial. life doesn't make sense we need to hedge. our bets and invest at least as much. funding in the search for. technological life elsewhere and my. Approach is to look for objects this is. something that was never attempted. before the last decade because only over. the past decade we discovered the first. objects from outside the solar.

system uh in the form of. um the interstellar object that was the. size of a football field omua mua. discovered by a telescope in. Hawaii uh and in 2017 and it had had. very strange properties uh it um was. changing it brightness the reflection of. sunlight from it changed by a factor of. 10 as it was tumbling every 8 hours and.

modeling these variations implied that. it was. flat um pancake like and moreover this. object was pushed away from the. Sun by some mysterious Force without. shedding any of its mass it didn't. didn't have a cometary tail the way. comets have so it was not the rocket. effect which was pushing. and I said well based on my research. maybe it's a very thin membrane a very. thin film pushed by reflecting sunlight.

like a solar sail or maybe a surface. layer of what you were describing. earlier yes so I just wrote a paper. saying this object is so weird that it. could be technological in origin where. is the object now now the object is much. farther away a few times the distance. between the Earth and and the Sun but uh. it's. actually a billion times uh.

fainter. because uh it got so far away from the. Sun and so um we cannot really see it we. cannot Chase it because it's running. away from us uh faster than our best. rockets and so the only way to figure. out what such an object might have been. is to find more of the same and actually. in. 2025 there will be a new. Observatory monitoring the sky serving.

the sky in Chile called the Rubin. Observatory funded the by the National. Science Foundation it will employ a. camera that is um 1.2 m in diameter um. significant fraction of the size of a. person and we have 3.2 billion pixels. a thousand times more pixels than your. cell phone camera it will survey the. southern Sky every 4 days the entire sky.

and our calculations imply that every. few months it should find an object like. UA mua so obviously when we see the next. weird object from Interstellar space and. we can tell because if it's moving too. fast to be bound by gravity to the sun. we know that it came from outside the. solar system that's what M did and mua. means a scout in the Hawaiian language. that's where the name came from but. hopefully we'll find many more Scouts.

like it and then we can study them in. great. detail for example now we have the web. telescope and it's uh about a million. miles away from Earth so if we look at. the same object from Earth and the web. telescope we will see it from different. direction just like having two eyes it. allows us it will allow us to uh infer. the exact location of this object the.

distance to the object and we could also. detect the heat that it emits in the. infrared with the web telescope we can. tell the size of the object the. reflectance of sunlight we will learn. much more about such an object uh given. that we have the web telescope so alt. together within a year my hope is we. will find many more objects like umu mua. but even before umam mua 4 years earlier. there was a meteor an object the size of.

a watermelon half a meter or so or. bigger that collided with Earth and. burned up in the lower atmosphere and it. was detected by US Government satellites. that are monitoring the Earth for. ballistic. missiles uh and every now and then they. notice a collision between an object. from space with Earth because they see. the fireball this Collision released a. few per of the heroshima atomic bomb.

energy and once the Department of. Defense realized that it's an. astronomical object not related to any. Warfare here on Earth they released the. data in a catalog that NASA put. out and together with my student Amir SJ. we realized that this object was Unbound. to the Sun that it came from outside the. solar system so it was actually the. first Interstellar object before om.

almost four years discovered on January. 8th. 2014 and um it also looked weird because. it was moving faster than 95% of the. Stars near the Sun and also it exhibited. material strength that is tougher than. iron meteorites so it was tougher than. iron it only. disintegrated when it reached the very. dense lower atmosphere of the earth it. exploded about uh 20 kilm over the.

Pacific Ocean and the the US space. command confirmed that this object was. indeed Interstellar that it was moving. too fast to be bound to the Sun and I. reached out to them because my. colleagues were saying we don't believe. the US government and um I reached um as. chair of the board on physics and. astronomy I reached through the White. House and the US space command issued a.

letter submitted to NASA to confirm that. this is indeed an Interstellar meteor. the first recognized Interstellar. meteor and there was another. object uh that was discovered in 2019. from Interstellar space that happened to. be a comet a regular Comet the way we. see comets in the solar system they're. basically a rock covered with water ice. that gets evaporated when it comes close.

to the Sun. and people ask me okay well this one. which is named. borisov this comet is familiar it's. natural we know about comets so doesn't. it convince you they asked me that UA. mua was also natural and not artificial. not technological. and I said well if you go down the. street and you see a weird person and. after that you see a normal person it.

doesn't make the weird person normal so. UA mua was still quite unusual MH and so. this entire field of study of looking. for objects that came into the solar. system from outside and figuring out. whether among the rocks that look. familiar there might be some space trash. from another from EX terrest. that was never pursued before. and that is my current Focus I'm trying.

to figure out if any of these objects. might have been technological in. origin very very interesting and. and when it comes to you say that the. universe is 13 13.88 bil milon. years the humans have been around for. how long a few million years just one. part in 10,000 or so.

so kind of what I'm getting at is I had. this conversation it may have been Tim. kadet. but whoever it was we were talking about. what is what are the chances that. Humanity As We Know It lines up on the. same timeline as other extraterrestrial. life maybe we are the only ones in the. universe right now at this time yes and.

I I've I've been thinking about that. ever since we had that conversation but. now when you're telling me that we can. see we can see back to the beginning of. the universe it sounds. like it sounds like there's nothing that. we couldn't collect over the 13 8. billion years with the technology that. we have and also that the Milky Way is. like a waste basket that collected all. the space trash over the billions of.

years that elapsed since the first stars. formed and you know we can look into. this waste basket and and check if. someone existed before us they don't. need to live right now with. us um and so it's a completely different. approach to searching for others that. they may have existed billions of years. ago Left Behind Some monuments some. space trash that we can.

find wow if and now the key question is. whether any of the objects that comes. close to Earth is still functional you. know because our own Voyager for example. will not be functional once it leaves. the solar system to Interstellar space. when it exits from the or Cloud the. outer boundary of the solar system it. will not be functional in 10,000 years. so it will be just space trash but you. can imagine a more advanced civilization.

because we had only one century of. Science and. Technology but if another civilization. you know had science and technology for. thousands of years maybe a million years. you know they could have sent probes. that would survive the journey and uh. would still be around in now billions of. years after that they were made and the. question is are they around us is there. any evidence because the Director of. National Intelligence submitted three.

reports to the US Congress about. unidentified anomalous phenomena and if. you think about it these reports if you. don't believe that there are any. extraterrestrial. objects that these reports are. describing then it's the intelligence. agencies admitting that they're not. doing their job because if it's all made. by. humans and they cannot figure out the.

nature of these objects you know either. they should get a pay cut or a boost in. their funding so that you know people. should get alarmed that there are. objects flying in the sky that we don't. understand indeed there was this Chinese. spy balloon that was shut down maybe. there are many more that we haven't. realized my point is that it's a. question that should be addressed using. the scientific method by collecting data. and we should figure out if humans are. sending these anomalous subjects that.

the government is unable to. identify I was actually at the. Washington National Cathedral uh in the. company of averel Haynes the Director of. National Intelligence after she. submitted the first report and since she. has a bachelor's degree from the. University of Chicago in physics we. speak the same language and I asked her. what do you make of these object. Jacks and she said I don't. know and then Jeff. Bezos went to the stage and talked about.

the fact that he was inspired to create. blue Origins after watching Star Trek as. a. kid and I said to. averil I never liked science. fiction because it involves fiction you. know I cannot enjoy it because it. violates the laws of physics the. storyline doesn't make any sense and she. said AI we have to work on. you so um you know and it was.

interesting that um I was invited the. first scientist to be invited to this um. uh Munich security conference where. heads of state and other um important. politicians come together every year and. um when we went to have a drink on the. roof of the hotel I could see sers with. black head covers on the roof and I. realized they're not here to protect me.

they're here to protect vomir zelinski. for. example and. um I then realized that indeed the being. a politician is far more controversial. than being a. scientist so I'm in the right business. I'm just trying to figure out the world. you know what do you make of some of. these I mean I I know you did Ryan. Graves podcast right and David favor I.

think I'm saying his name right FR yeah. fraver excuse me but you know these. these underwater uaps just just all of. the UAP UFO phenomena type stuff that. we're that we're catching on camera what. I mean what do you make of this stuff. well we need better data the data that. is available is not good enough because. we don't know the distances to those. objects just to give you an example. suppose you are in a. highway and you see a black car behind.

you and then you see you. look forward and you see a black car in. front of you and then you say wow that's. amazing this black car was moving really. fast I didn't even notice when I looked. at the rear view mirror I didn't really. notice the car. passing but it could be that it's not. the same. car and so if you have a swarm of. objects that come in and out of. view you might think that they're moving.

really fast but it's not the same object. so what we need is really much better. data and unfortunately as we discussed. before the US government. classifies most of the interesting data. they release data which is not as. convincing and the fundamental question. is. are they hiding something of great. scientific. interest I would not exclude that. possibility but you know waiting for.

them to release classified information. is like waiting for godo you know the. play of Samuel Beck you can wait. forever and that's not a good approach. because we live a short life I want to. know the answer if they do have the. information I beg them to release it. because otherwise I'll waste 20 years of. my life the remaining part of my active. life looking for the answer when they. already have the answer so I really hope.

that they would share it because. anything that lies beyond the solar. system you know it's not a matter of. national security from a large distance. you can't really tell that the Earth is. split into Nations when you look at the. Earth from the Moon mhm you don't see. the border between Russia and. Ukraine um and so it makes zero sense to. maintain such information confidential. it's as if you were you were the. president of the United States were to. decide that indeed the sun is made of.

hydrogen but we shouldn't let the public. know about. it and uh hiding information from the. public on scientific matters makes no. sense because eventually it will come to. light and um the way I approach it is in. the scientific way that I I don't care. about. anything that may have National Security. implications that's what the government. should do but if there is one in a.

billion objects that came from outside. of this Earth we should know about it. and um with the Galileo project we. developed a new brand of. observatories we have one operating. right now at Harvard University over the. past few months we looked at half a. million. objects uh it's looking at the entire. sky in the infrared in the optical in. the radio and in audio and then we have. machine learning software trying to.

figure out whether we're looking at a. bird a drone a balloon an. airplane so far we haven't seen anything. anomalous but it's one location near. Boston and we are assembling a copy of. that observatory in. Colorado what how are these locations. chosen. uh well the har location was just a. test uh place we wanted to be able to. test the instruments that we have.

calibrate them see that they perform to. our. satisfaction the Colorado one. was for a change in place but it. potentially could be moved. elsewhere and then we have a third one. that was just funded by the Richard King. melon Foundation at. $575,000 and we would assemble a third. observatory in Pennsylvania because they. paid for it to be there in principle we. can build an.

observatory for half a million dollars. in any location so it's just a matter of. fun funding and my hope is that we will. have tens of them and we will record. billions of objects over several decades. so we will get to the bottom of the. question of whether there are objects in. our sky that um are not from this Earth. okay we will. know whether anything happened in the. distant past you know like 50 years.

ago would be very difficult for us to. tell because if events are very rare. that they happens they happen once per. Century once per half century then we. might not be lucky to be at the right. place at the right time to see them uh. but what is important is that military. personnel when they report about an. unidentified. anomalous phenomena they happen to be at. the right place at the right time but. that is an anecdotal report they don't.

sit there for a long period of time. looking at the entire sky and so what. what we are doing allows us to calibrate. the noise from the background so that if. something unusual shows up we can say. how unusual it. is and this is one branch of the Galo. project a second branch is to search for. unusual Interstellar. objects using the data that comes from. the ruin observatory in a year that will.

monitor the southern Sky every four days. and with we'll have the sensitivity to. find objects like om mua mua is this the. one in Chile in Chile how was that. location chosen that was the National. Science Foundation that's a very good. location for telescopes because the. visibility is great Chile has a this um. set of of mountains were the best. telescopes in the world they operate so. it was chosen for that reason it's very. good for astronomy.

and we hope to use the data coming from. that Observatory to find more objects. that are Interstellar in origin and look. as weird as om mua mua so we can figure. out whether any of them might be. technological in origin okay and then. there is the third branch of the Galo. project that I'm most excited about and. that is looking for the materials of. interstellar meteors so for example the.

one discovered in 2014 by the US. government. satellites. exploded about um 70 miles away from the. coast of papuan nugini in the Pacific. Ocean so once the US government. confirmed the Department of Defense. confirmed the location and the velocity. of this meteor I decided to lead an. expedition to search for the materials. the remains of that meteor uh at the.

bottom of the ocean and just to explain. we're talking about the floor being at a. depth of a mile across a region that is. 7 miles. in WID wow and that is the fireball. location that was publicly disclosed by. the US space command and so we went. there uh this. Expedition cost $1 and5 million do there. were about 30 people with me on a ship.

that was fittingly called Silver Star. and. um we used them a sled that had magnets. on both sides and placed it on the ocean. floor and drag the sled back and forth. 26 times across that region. and um it's just like mowing the loone. except the the first challenge was to. keep the sled on the ocean floor cuz it. would very often kite by the tension in.

the cable that connected it to the ship. the length of the cable was about 3. miles um and we would just skim the. ocean floor and eventually bring the. sled to the deck of the ship and collect. all the materials on the magnets and I. was the chief scientist on this. Expedition and they would wake me up in. the middle of the night I didn't sleep. much I wrote 43 diary reports on this.

Expedition and put them on medium.com. and um that's where I post essays every. day or two and they were read by. millions of people around the world. translated to. Spanish people were fascinated by the. way science is done which is collecting. materials and analy izing them to figure. out the origin of this object there was. even a person in Denmark that emailed me. when I was on the ship to tell me that.

he had a stroke and reading about the. Expedition gave. him the will to. live uh and um for me that was the most. rewarding message that I got because you. know just being curious and following. the method of science appears to be rare. you ask yourself why well the reason is. because in Academia a lot of people are.

driven by. the um wish to show off you know they. want to demonstrate that they're are. smart so that they get honors. Awards and the way to do that is not to. make mistakes not to take risks not not. to be too curious because if you are too. curious you sometimes make mistake like. a kid you you explore things you harm. yourself you don't do the right thing. you make mistakes along the. way and.

so even though the these people started. as kids they lost the Curiosity when. they become became adults and if you. think about it the all the whole idea of. of tenure in Academia that gives you the. freedom to pursue your curiosity to. pursue things that are not popular at. the time you know to give you job. security is being abused by people who. are using it to just Empower themselves.

to and. so common sense is not common in. Academia and when I went to the. Expedition a lot of. scientists I wouldn't say lot but a few. of them were arguing that I will not. find. anything and that they don't believe the. US government we went there we found. materials we found molten. droplets in the site of the Fireball.

from this meteor and we brought the. materials back and I gave them to my. colleague at Harvard University a. well-renowned. geochemist named Stein Jacobson and over. nine months he used the best instruments. in the world to analyze them and we. realized that the chemical composition. of 10% of the molten droplets that we. brought. back was different than materials from. the solar system that was previously.

reported in the scientific literature so. so we found We Believe material that may. have come from outside the solar system. but the droplets that we discovered were. less than a millimeter in size they were. the size of a grain of sand wow but they. looked very distinct from Sand because. they look like metallic marbles and when. I took photographs of them on the ship. and wrote some. medium uh reports about them my daughter.

saw the the images and she said Dad they. look so beautiful because they look like. metallic Marbles and she said Could you. um put one of them on a necklace so that. I can wear it and I said well these are. less than a millimeter in size that made. mostly of iron you can't thread them uh. and uh but they look beautiful and um. The Hope is that we can find bigger. pieces so we are now planning the next. Expedition hopefully within a year it.

will cost $6.5 millionar much more four. times more than the previous one um and. we would we will be looking for bigger. Pieces perhaps even the. wreckage of the core of the object that. collided with Earth and for that we want. to use remotely operated vehicle ROV. that we put on the ocean floor and have. a video feed so we can see the pieces.

that we are picking up that's why it's. it's more. expensive uh and we are now seeking the. funding for this Expedition and. hopefully we'll get it soon so that we. can start to build the tools that we. will. use what did your colleague find from. the. samples we found found a chemical. composition that looked very different. than the crust of the. Earth. Mars the moon.

asteroids so it looks as if it's. material that came from another. star to figure it out better we really. need bigger pieces cuz what happened is. these molten droplets lost some of the. elements that made them in the. explosion these are called volatile. elements that can evaporate and be lost. during the explosion but if we find.

bigger pieces they retained all the. elements that made the object also we. can tell what the object was like we can. tell the difference between a. rock and a technological Gadget just. imagine a computer if you were to burn. it up and melt it you would find. droplets left over so it would tell you. that the composition was unusual but it. will not tell you what the original. object was however if you find a big. piece of the screen then you would.

realize that it's not a rock and so if. we find a gadget at the bottom of the. ocean and it has for example buttons on. it the fundamental question is should we. press a. button and I asked my. students I asked my students in my class. what do you think I should. do and half of them said please don't do. that don't press a button because it.

will affect all of. us and then the other half of the class. said please do because we are really. curious to know whether you know maybe. it's a chat GPT 100 you know it will do. some amazing. things and then one student raised his. hand and said well given the split vote. what would you actually do Professor. L and I said I will take it to a. laboratory and study it examine it. before engaging with it so don't.

worry however we didn't find a gadget as. of yet if the US government has such a. thing I want to see. it when. you so were there any so there were. elements that we've never seen before. well well we've seen the elements. because the tools that we use to analyze. the. material they're looking for elements. from the periodic table they're not.

looking for something outside the. periodic table so we look for elements. that are familiar but the concentration. the abundance of those. elements was very different than you. find in the crest of the Earth or on. mars or in asteroids so so it's just the. it's just like ingredients of a cake you. know it's how much sugar you put. compared to flour and so forth and we.

found that the ingredients have very. different concentrations than in solar. system materials interesting by up to a. factor of a thousand these were elements. like berum lanthanum and uranium so we. had to invent a name for this material. and we called it Bellow for these three. elements have you I just saw this thing. the other day where we have it sounds. like and this could be this could be.

social media garbage for all I know but. supposedly we have found another planet. with. water oh yeah water we know exists in. many places but it's not a guarantee for. for life and moreover what we usually. find is what a vapor in the gas f. what we want to know is whether liquid. water exists on another planet because. the chemistry of Life as we know it. happens in liquid water I think they.

were saying this was liquid water and. with anere was a a possibility of. explaining the size of the. planet given its mass if it has a large. ocean what water ocean so that you know. that is indirect evidence to have liquid. water on on a planet Planet you need an. atmosphere because if you take solid ice. water ice and warm it up in vacuum it. just goes straight into gas into vapor.

doesn't go through liquid the only way. to get liquid water is if there is. external pressure from an atmosphere and. to maintain an atmosphere you need a. massive Planet like the Earth so when. you see comets they carry water ice but. when they come close to the Sun and they. get warmed up the water turns into gas. and there is no liquid water on the. surface of comets and so um the only.

other object in the solar system that. has liquids on its. surface is a moon of Saturn it's called. Titan and that liquid is methan and. Ethan it's very different than water so. there are two objects in the solar. system that have liquids on the surface. the Earth has water and Titan has Li. oceans and rivers and lakes of methan.

and Ethan and the. temperature on the surface of. Titan is just 90° above absolute zero so. it's about a third of the temperature of. Earth above absolute zero so it's very. cold but these liquids exist exist. because they are methan and Ethan and. what I would like to do if I had the. opportunity is to go fishing there to. look for fish because if we find fish in.

those oceans of methan and Ethan on. Titan it would mean that there is life. as we don't know it you know we are. often searching for Life as we know it. but there could be other forms of life. and an interesting place to visit is. Titan and actually in. 2028 NASA will. launch probes to.

Titan the project is called. dragonfly and we might know more about. whether life exists in Titan I was. interested in that for another reason. because the temperature on the surface. of Titan was the temperature in the. entire. universe when it was roughly 100 million. years. old so it was hotter early on the. universe and then it cooled as it. expanded so the radiation that fills up.

the universe right now is only 3° 2.7 26. Dees above absolute zero it's. freezing but when you go back in time to. when the universe was um just a tenth of. a percent about sorry to a time when the. universe was a percent of it current. age the temperature was the same as the. surface temperature of Titan so that. means that if you had moons or.

planets with Ethan and methan on the. surface they could have been warmed up. enough just by The Cosmic radiation they. don't need to be closed to a star like. the sun and so life could have existed. everywhere very early. if we find life on the surface of Titan. as we don't know it and um I'm very much. looking forward in within a four years.

to learning whether there is life on. Titan because it would say something. about how early life started in the. universe wow wow how. interested when. you've the dis- like object what did you. call that am Amur Mo yes. that the meteor that you recovered uh. pieces. of is the how much interest is the. government showing in your work the.

government supported my research so far. there was no. um they had no issue in fact they the US. space command under the Department of. Defense sent a letter to NASA confirming. the interstellar origin of the meteor. and so I'm grateful that they provided. the confirmation and the data about this. meteor that allowed us to search for for. the remains of that meteor and there is.

another meteor that we identified as. potentially being. Interstellar uh it was uh discovered in. March 2017 and uh I asked um the. government to verify whether it was. indeed Interstellar and if they do then. we will go after that as well are you. worried the government is going to. interfere with your studies if you so. far they haven't so I'm not worried. there were visits to my home uh for.

example by the director of Arrow the all. domain anomaly resolution office who by. now left his job Sean kirpatrick and and. his um uh Team uh they asked questions. about the Galo project but I think it. was just for them to figure out what we. are doing and I have nothing to hide. it's a scientific project what do you. think of some of the research this have. you heard of Skinwalker Ranch yes what. do you think of some of the research.

that's going on there well the problem. with that place is that the location is. known so you can imagine hackers. planting evidence that appears weird and. um that's the issue I have because. you never know if people are trying to. trick you uh and it's best to operate. without people knowing exactly where.

the interesting have not thought of that. not thought of that yeah do you think. there is any sort. of a lot of people think this is some. sort of it maybe some of the the. phenomena stuff that we're seeing is is. some type of a spiritual entity. what are your thoughts on. that um I don't think so I mean um to. you know.

I I don't think it's a smart thing to. associate uh physical. objects with spirituality because the. way I think about our brain is the same. way I think about artificial. intelligence natural intelligence. artificial intelligence. you know may. become. uh similar or we might be able to better. understand the human brain by.

generating AI systems that are as. complex they have as many connections as. the number of synapses in the human. brain we are getting there and um at. that point the system is so complex that. it behaves in ways that we cannot. forecast and uh as a result it looks as. if it it has a sense of Independence uh. Consciousness or a spiritual component. to it simply because we can't figure it. out as I mentioned Moses felt that the.

burning bush that was never consumed uh. has a spiritual significance right and. today you can buy online a gadget that. would have given Moses the same sense of. OE and so if we are able to reproduce or. even create machines that operate better. than the human brain in terms of uh how. complex they are it would imply that you. know the what we call spirituality is.

just an emergent phenomena out of. complex systems okay and um so I don't. think uh we should imagine that a system. that is unpredictable to us must have a. sense of free will necessarily I think. it's just that it has so. many um degrees of freedom that it. can't it can't really operate in a.

predictable way it's affected by its. environment it's. it's you know affected by quantum. mechanics that introduces some. uncertainty so altogether it gives us. the impression. that there is something beyond the. physical reality but it's simply our. ignorance of understanding the the. details of that complex entity and you. know if we find the a functioning device.

from. extraterrestrials it may well be. equipped with artificial intelligence. and might be difficult for us to figure. out in fact if we find such a thing I. wouldn't want to rely on physicist. telling us what it's doing because. physes are not used to dealing with. intelligent systems I would hire. psychology psychologists deal with. intelligence systems these are humans. right uh and they would be better. equipped to figure out the intent of an.

AI system that came from outside of this. Earth I would also use our own AI. systems because they might have Affinity. to extraterrestrial AI systems more than. to us if they are built of the same. materials h. wow very. interesting by the way the whole subject. of AI we have to realize. that um the first time we meet.

Aliens might be when we deal with AI. which are our technological kids I have. two daughters and I don't always. understand them right and so I have no. problem with the fact that they might be. smarter than than I. am um but the same could apply to our. technological kids you know AI systems. might outsmart us we wouldn't figure it.

out and um uh this will be our first. encounter with an entity that is smarter. than us because until now we thought. that we are the smartest here on Earth. and it will be a good. U preparation for an encounter with a. more intelligent neighbor. um and maybe that Gadget that will be. functional that we would encounter would. have in it AI because if you think about.

Interstellar travel the trip takes a. long time even at the speed of light it. takes tens of thousands of years to. cross the Milky Way galaxy and that. means that biological creatures like us. will not survive the journey there there. is um there are cosmic rays would damage. our body uh but you can imagine. hardening. a a technological system to survive the.

journey and having an AI guided so that. it's independent doesn't wait for. guidance from the sender. so the situation is similar to uh. helicopter parenting that this is the. approach we took with all the gadgets we. sent to Mars for example they. are operated by engineers at the jet. propulsion lab in. Pasadena however and we even operated um.

a helicopter on Mars so that's why. helicopter parenting is really. appropriate here but but eventually when. we go to Greater distances and it may. start with Titan we want our probes to. have their own intelligence so that they. make decisions on the spot takes a long. time for the signal to go back and forth. to from Earth to the probe and so it's. just like sending our kids out of home. uh you don't expect your kid to call you.

for any decision only to report back. when something important happens and. send you a postcard or call you. and therefore using AI for space. exploration would be ideal when you go. large distances cuz then you send. autonomous systems that. can operate on their own based on the. guidelines that we gave them and they. can communicate back the most important. information to us as of now we haven't.

sent AI to space but to me it sounds. like the wave of the. future have there been. any other signs of extraterrestrial life. that we haven't talked about yet. that you're aware. of we talked about radio signals the. search for molecular fingerprints in the. atmospheres of planets which is a.

primitive life in the form of microbes. and objects that may have arrived near. Earth uh and other technological. signatures like industrial pollution. City. Lights um. yeah so these are all subjects I worked. on but uh we covered all of them when. you were talking about the observatory. that's going to be in Chile did you I.

can't remember the year 2025 in 2025. yeah you had mentioned that you thought. that we would. see objects like the. disc maybe one every couple of months. yes why what makes you certain with that. prediction oh. um given that we found one object over a. period of time of a few years at that. distance and with the telescope that we.

know the capabilities. of now we can extrapolate and ask what's. the likelihood that a much better. telescope like the ruin Observatory will. find similar objects it can look farther. away because it's more. sensitive and and if such objects come. and go on random trajectories around us. you can figure out the frequency by. which uh the ruin Observatory will. discover objects like UA so that's the.

basis for this prediction and of course. the key question is whether these. objects are on random orbits. or was special and was on a targeted. Mission uh but assuming that they are on. random orbits there should be many of. them in fact um there could be as many. as quadrillion such objects within the. solar system right now wow yeah wow so a. lot of if it's technological in origin a.

lot of space. trash uh but it may not. be very massive if it's um thin if we're. talking about thin membranes and by the. way um three years after a muua was. discovered in September 2020 the same. telescope in Hawaii. discovered another object that was. pushed away from the. Sun but without any cometary evaporation.

it was pushed by reflecting. sunlight and a few weeks after the. discovery the astronomers realized. actually this object came from Earth. it's a rocket booster that NASA launched. in. 1966 in a lunar lander mission. and so we know that it's technological. because we produced it and it had thin. walls and that's why it had a large. surface for its.

mass uh so that it can be pushed by. reflecting. sunlight and I rest my case here is a. technological object that appeared to. share the same qualitative features of a. mua and. for example uh Elon Musk launched the. Tesla Roadster. car uh as a dummy payload on the Falcon. heavy launch in.

2018 and now this car is orbiting the. Sun in an elliptic orbe we cannot see it. even with our best telescopes cuz it's. too small it doesn't reflect enough. sunlight but imagine this car crashing. into the Earth in 20 million years it. might do. so it would appear as an unusual meteor. in the sky and if astronomers are not. waiting for it they would say it's a. rock of a type that we've never seen.

before and so my point is that Elon Musk. may not be the most accomplished space. entrepreneur since the big band there. may have been many others that you know. imagine their cars floating in. interstellar space and crashing into the. Earth every now and then. do you. think a lot of people think. that uaps may be coming from inside the.

earth do you think there's any validity. to that well there is an interesting. possibility that I wrote about in an. essay on medium.com and that. is that um. 252 million years. ago there was an Abrupt global warming. event very similar to the global warming. that is happening. now.

and maybe that was. triggered by another technological. civilization that was just. 5% of the age of the Earth okay so going. back in time 5% of the history of. Earth 95% of all U species were went. extinct for those people who say that. any global warming. catastrophe uh will will bring life to.

an end and will um was UN will be. unprecedented just go back in time and. read about the history of the earth um. and the question is whether that event. global warming event was triggered by. another technological civilization of. course the natural interpretation is to. say well it was a geological event that. created it but it occurred very abruptly. over a period of at at most uh a million.

years but most likely maybe even less. than T of thousands of years it's hard. to tell and um if such a thing existed. you may ask yourself okay what is Left. Behind from that technological. civilization if it existed on. Earth okay uh things that were left for. example on the surface of Earth would. have been mixed by. now with the interior because there was. a lot of geological activity by the way.

if you go back um that far um you could. have driven a car between Australia. Europe. Asia. America Antarctica because all of them. were parts of the same super continent. that existed back then Earth was very. different you know John lenon has this. song Imagine where he imagines all the.

the entire world living as. one the world was one back then uh when. the dinosaurs roamed the Earth they. there was one giant. continent but um the point is that if uh. a technological civilization. existed uh anything it left on the. surface of the Earth could have been. buried by now although we could have. found traces of it in some remote.

locations but if they had for example. satellites. or technological objects that orbit the. earth they would not be affected by what. happens on the surface of Earth. so you know you could imagine that maybe. there are. things near Earth that have been around. for a while another possibility is that. someone visited the earth when we were. not. around and left.

things uh and you know it's also. possible that um life complex life on. Earth was seeded by an Interstellar. Gardener someone came and initiated. processes for example more than two. billion years ago the earth did not have. much oxygen on it and then suddenly. again. suddenly uh canano bacteria one type of.

bacteria. stting becoming very prominent and. produced the oxygen increase the oxygen. levels uh in the ocean then in the. atmosphere and this was a sudden. transition that is not fully. understood perhaps that transition. occurred because of a visit we think of. life on Earth as being isolated from. what happened elsewhere but we know that.

rocks from Mars reached the Earth and. could have carried life we might all be. martians so when space. X will try to bring people back to Mars. it may be just like going back to our. childhood home and there could have been. micro robs that made the opposite trip. from Mars in the interior of a rock that. landed on Earth and initiated life on. Earth or it could have been also.

intentional if another Civ technological. civilization wanted to seed the Earth. with complex life because they had it. already before us this process is called. panspermia the spreading of life from. one planet to another and it can occur. naturally as a result of exchange of. rocks between Earth and Mars there is. evidence for one rock that wasn't heed. to more than 40° Celsius starting from. the surface of Mars as it was chipped.

off by probably an impact and then. reaching the Earth and going through the. atmosphere like a re-entry vehicle and. then eventually landing on the earth the. interior of that rock was not heated to. more than 40° C and that could have. preserved life in that interior we know. that the temperature didn't rise more. than that because of the magnetic. properties of this object they would. have been changed if the object was.

overheat do you have I. mean I feel weird asking a scientist. this but can ask me anything which. because I know you only it seems like. you only go off data on research but do. you have any are you leaning any. particular way I mean you have to be. thinking about this stuff at night with. theories about what about how life. started on.

earth oh I I just don't. know but if you ask me I thought you. would ask me whether I believe in God do. you so then it depends what you mean by. that. because to me it means a superum entity. something bigger than. us and that could be a very Advanced. scientific. civilization it can create Miracles it.

may be able to create life in its. Laboratories maybe even a baby Universe. in its. Laboratories and these qualities were. assigned to God in religious texts MH so. it may be real we just have to find it. what. about what about. Consciousness Consciousness I think is. an emergent phenomena so when we die and.

stop being. conscious to. me the experience is just like a. computer being unplugged from the power. out. Outlet um it shuts off now of course you. can reconnect the computer and it will. come to life maybe we will do. that to the human body at some point. it's possible also that we. will.

reach what is called the uh longevity. Escape speed which means that there will. be a time when the human lifespan will. gain more than a year for any year that. passes because of improvements in in in. medicine. so you know I would love to be immortal. for two. reasons one is that it will allow me to. engage in an Interstellar trip that will.

take a long. time and second is that I'm very curious. about lots of things and I think that. the knowledge we have is like an island. in an ocean of ignorance most people are. very proud of what we know but I am. really concerned about what we don't. know there is so much we don't know we. don't know what makes the dark matter in. the universe what makes the dark energy. we don't know what what's inside a black.

hole we don't know what existed before. the Big. Bang we don't know how life emerged how. Consciousness emerged in the human. brain uh what our future is like um what. could be the most Advanced Technologies. that anyone may have. created before we came to Exist. Elsewhere there is so much for us to. learn that I would like to live forever. and figure it out now I realize it may.

not happen and um but I I'm doing the. best I can you. know what are some of the. theories when it comes to what was here. before the bing. bang um one popular idea is. that the Universe came from. nothing so it was just a fluctuation of. the. vacuum um that um every now and then you.

know if you wait long enough um a. universe pops up as a fluctuation. according to Quantum Mechanics uh the. vacuum is not um dormant according to. quantum mechanics that all the time. particles created and an elated and all. kinds of things happening so in. principle you could have nucleated uh. our universe out of. nothing uh and in fact the it fits into.

the idea of the Multiverse where lots of. regions come in and out and the. conditions in them are very different. since there is Infinite Space you can. create every everything that can happen. will happen an infinite number of times. so that's one. possible Theory another one is that the. Universe uh did not always expand. actually before the Big Bang it actually.

contracted and that bounce from the. contraction created The Big Bang so. maybe the universe is cyclic it's. Contracting and then expanding and then. Contracting and. expanding that's another possible idea. and one that I. enjoy thinking about is that just like. with humans you know we make babies that. become adults and make new babies and. our universe is the simplest possible so.

if quantum gravity Engineers can create. a baby Universe in the. laboratory then that universe may end up. making quantum gravity Engineers that. will create another baby universe so. then you have a sequence of Big. Bangs that uh follow each other other. because you make baby universes in any. universe that is being created. wow let's take a break. [Music].

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all right Obby we're back from the break. and we're this last segment of the. interview we got a little bit left and I. I just have a couple of personal. questions uh one we had an interesting. discussion again at breakfast. uh we had a good breakfast but um we. were talking. about we had brought up we were talking. about the government you know if they're. hiding stuff from us I gave you you know.

kind of my thoughts on that but then I. had also brought up I got really. interested in the Extraterrestrial UFO. UAP phenomena type topic I think about. two years ago is when I really started. looking into it and. I've interviewed all kinds of people uh. on the subject and there seems to. be about three main.

camps and all of these camps are looking. for their they all talk about disclosure. they want disclosure but the funny thing. about these camps is they all think that. they know everything and that none of. the other camps know anything and so it. reminds me of religions right it's very. similar each has their own gold and um. they don't believe in the other tribe as. uh it's very it's very odd that the.

commonality between all of them is they. want full disclosure but none of them. work with each other right they just. talk trash about each other this Camp. doesn't know anything we know everything. right and the problem with that is um. you know when scientists look at that. they say we don't want anything to do. with it and that's unfortunate because. you know we should search for evidence. and figure out the answers okay and um. it makes no sense to ignore a subject.

just because there are people fighting. with each. other about it and and making statements. that are not supported by evidence so I. think we should take the high road um. and you know that is the approach the. time take speak uh also with respect to. my. critics um very often there are people. who uh are jealous of the attention that. my work gets from the public and they.

just want to bring it down they want to. step on any flower that rises above the. grass level these are people in. Academia uh who are. otherwise you know not uh accomplishing. much and so they decide to. attack and and and very often it's. personal and um sometimes the. media listens to them so just to give. you an. example we searched for the interstellar.

meteor according to the coordinates. provided by the Department of. Defense H the Fireball from the meteor. was seen by sensors on US Government. satellites and just before we went there. we looked at the seismometers and other. sensors on the ground that have released. public information and we found one s m. that had a blit consistent with the. location that the US Department of.

Defense provided so we said that's great. and we went to the error box of DOD and. surveyed it 26 times now A team of. scientists said that we don't believe. the US. government which by itself is is a. little bit odd because the US space. command is funded at30 billion a year. more than the budget of NASA and they're. supposed to advise the US president.

about any ballistic missiles launched. from North Korea or Russia or Iran um. and uh if they their data is. unreliable they could advise the US. president the missile is heading towards. Mexico and it's actually going towards. Washington and the astronomers were. arguing that they're wrong by a factor. of three that in fact the speed was much. smaller this was an object from the. solar system and um you know that to me. sounded.

quite uh unusual for a statement made in. a scientific publication um and then. they said well if we discard the US. government and we just look at the data. that is publicly available otherwise. then we can't. localize this meteor very well so in. fact it could have been in a much larger. region and so maybe the Expedition went. to the wrong place and then they said. this Theses mometer might have actually.

detected a truck that was passing by it. was not a signal from the explosion of. the. fireball H and so the New York Times. published an interview with the lead. author of this paper and the title was. the meteor could been a. truck and if you think about it it's a. complete Distortion of the facts because. we were attending mostly to the data. that came from US Government satellites. that detected the light coming from the.

explosion it was nothing to do with the. seismometer that was just used to back. up and look if there was any supporting. evidence but this was not what guided us. and the location from the US. was consistent with the bigger error. ellipse provided by these scientists so. they can't say that we went to the wrong. place and so this part of the story was. not at all mentioned in New York Times. reports and so you know it led me to.

realize that you know if on scientific. matters that are relying on evidence you. cannot trust science journalist then how. can you trust what is being published in. the New York Times on politics. and um the approach that I take to those. critics who are looking for any possible. way to raise dust and claim that they. can't see. anything uh the approach is similar to.

The Eagle you know the eagle very often. has crows pecking at at its neck they're. sitting on the back of the eagle and you. might think that the eagle will fight. them off but no the eagle Rises to. Greater Heights where the oxygen level. is low and the crows cannot survive so. they drop off the back of the eagle and. to me the highest. level as a scientist is to seek evidence. so that my critics will not be able to.

survive and that's what I'm doing so. taking The High Ground not attending to. people who make no sense are not really. collecting data you know to plan this. Expedition took us a year to go there it. was very elaborate and it required a lot. of effort I didn't sleep much during the. Expedition and then for 9 months we. analyzed the. materials there were a few scientists. that were claiming it's actually what we. found is coal.

ash and that led us to check 55 elements. from the periodic table and we. demonstrated it's not C Ash but for them. to just make that claim required not. much effort. nothing and and so it's very easy to. criticize than to actually do the work. it's very easy to destroy something than. to build it we know that because that's. the the technique that terrorists take.

that they can easily destroy things. whereas to build those. things took a lot a lot of time and so. you know the fact that um evidence does. not play a central role and that. constructive. feedback is not. dominant within Academia bothers me but. I'm taking the high road on that and. within the. UAP Community you have also voices that.

are not substantiated by evidence but. this is just noise we should ignore it. and do the right thing I mean isn't that. a. reoccurring trait of humans since the. beginning of time if it wasn't you that. made it then destroy it if you can't if. you can't make it destroy it if you. don't understand it destroy it right I. mean that's but that that was a a a. signature of tribalism that you belong. to a tribe that fights for resources.

with another tribe and obviously it's a. zero sum game if the resources are. limited you can't allow both Tri tribes. to benefit from them so the idea is that. we are engaged in Zero Sum games and we. are are used to that and. so the often we we. fight uh the people that belong to. another tribe okay but science is.

completely different it's a an infinite. sum game in the sense that if I gain new. knowledge everyone benefits from it. that's the whole idea of Science and My. Hope Is that you know we will become as. a species intelligent enough at some. point. to realize that working. together is much better than fighting. each other and it's not yet recognized. in Academia that's what I'm telling you.

uh but I have bruises to prove that but. I don't care I'm a tough person I jog. every morning at Sunrise I enjoy nature. I don't have any footprint on social. media I don't care what other people say. I just want to do the right thing. based on what sounds like common sense. to me and you know it's common sense to. me that we are not alone it that we are. likely to have.

neighbors that may have existed before. us because there are hundreds of. billions of stars like the sun in the. Milky Way galaxy Al alone and a. substantial fraction of them may have a. planet the size of the Earth roughly the. same separation so it's really arrogant. to suggest that we are unique and. special and you know one day I was at. home and I my wife called me and said um.

there is someone on the street looking. at our. home maybe it's one of your fans you. should check what this person. wants and I went there and I said you've. been staring at our home for an hour why. and he said um because I was born at. this house 50 years. ago and I said um would you like to have. a look at the backyard and he said sure.

actually there was a cat that we buried. in the backyard called tiger and I said. yeah the name sounds familiar CU I saw. the tombstone of with Tiger written all. over it. but I was hoping it's not a real tiger. that it uh at any event we went there. and he explained to me now what did. that lesson teach me that um you know.

you should. welcome visitors especially if they come. from Interstellar space when you meet. with another person let's say on a blind. date you can pretty much assume that the. other person looks just like you because. you share the same. DNA that is a human and you are a. human however if you meet something from. another star all bets are. off and just as with the meeting with.

this stranger that looked at our home um. you know maybe the interstellar visitor. was around longer than we did knows. about things that happen in our backyard. that we don't even realize and so it's. always is to our benefit to learn from. our neighbors and you know just ignoring. the possibility that we have neighbors. arguing that it's an extraordinary claim.

without seeking the evidence for it is. really not intelligent you know only. when we will become intelligent enough. to allow ourselves to search for The. Neighbors we might find them and we. might be admitted to the club of an. intelligent civilization in the Milky. Way galaxy so far we are just looking. down not looking up and focusing on. conflicts and that is not a sign of. intelligence very true very true when.

you think of extraterrestrial life. especially when it comes to if there are. more. advanced. organisms in the in the somewhere in the. universe what do you imagine. do you I mean we had talked about. looking for lights on other planets and. and and water and and uh you brought up. the the stuff on the moon was it s Titan.

the the moon of sat yeah Titan that has. um lakes and oceans of methan and Ethan. yeah I mean do you imagine they have the. same senses no communicate similar not. necessarily I don't want to imagine. anything cuz our imagination is limited. to our experience on Earth and all bets. are off when you deal with someone from. another star or another environment that. is very different than ours so I prefer.

to go to this blind date with my eyes. open not to assume. anything and you know that's how I met. my wife on a blind date so who knows um. and if I I'm offered if they land in my. backyard and offer me a one-way ticket I. will take it I'm so disappointed with. what's going on on Earth right. now that um it can only get better by. going into Stellar yeah yeah I can't.

help but think about it I always I'm. always wondering you know what what it. would be like how would they communicate. or they do they have different senses. maybe I mean we can play with. AI and I actually gave a TED. Talk just last month um. I was making the point after several. Talks by AI. experts one of whom said that. AI is a. new species a digital species that we.

created uh and I said no I think it's. just a a digital. mirror you know we are creating AI in. our image. MH just the way that in religious Texs. humans were made in the image of God AI. is made in our image it's being trained. on what we produce and then we are. horrified that it's incompetent that.

it's hallucinating well I worked with. many summer interns that were. hallucinating and were. incompetent and actually you know Chad. GPT at some point last year started. functioning much more slowly and uh some. people interpreted that as being the. result of it interacting too much with. people it got. Dumber so my point is we shouldn't. expect much from AI because we're. feeding it with our. traits uh but if we find something from.

another star it could be very new and. better than. us uh one thing about educating or. training AI that we have to keep in mind. when we educate our kids biological kids. we restrict their exposure to things I. mean we don't take them to a dark alley. to to witness all the crimes that happen. there on the street you know and uh.

there is an education system that. selects the books and texts that um our. kids are exposed to at a young age and. for some reason with AI you know the. early systems were exposed to the entire. internet and there is a lot of crappy. content there that could be harm. and if we want AI to behave in ways that. we like or approve uh we should train it. on content that we want to replicate um.

just like training kids educating kids. and then you know there is the whole. issue of the legal system how to deal. with AI when it causes damages to. society if it kills people or if it just. does something unfortunate by. by chance well if it's still. maintaining the content that it was. trained on then it's just like a kid. that goes to a public place and destroys.

it or does something bad you basically. sanction the parents okay and in this. case it will be the manufacturer of the. AI system but if the AI system became. independent and learned from itself uh. and. became similar to an adult you know then. you could take it out of commission the. way you put people in prison you can. take it out of the of circulation.

because if it causes damages you don't. want it to hurt people so the legal. system has to adapt and obviously. politicians in Washington are not. attending to AI enough uh it's an on an. exponential curve that could bring a. very rapid changes in the way Society. works and we need. to uh craft a legal system that deals. with it but another thing is how to.

apply ethics to Ai and you know. philosophers um at least at Harvard they. teach very often ancient Greek. philosophy and the ancient Greeks as. smart as they. were did not have computers. and. one problem that comes along with the. humanities is that not many young people. study the humanities and I think the.

reason is that the humanities are. focusing on the past and they should. focus on the future they can develop the. ethical guidelines for dealing with new. technologies like AI for example I call. that Humanities of the future and I hope. that I mean at the the moment AI is. being taught as a tool that students can. use but one should. also. discuss how to appli the rules of Ethics. to incorporating AI into our society and.

that's something the humanities can. do well I think the more you talk about. that the more people will take notice. and eventually That's My Hope um if you. ask me whether I'm an optimist or a. pessimist. I'm always an optimist because life is. sometimes a self-fulfilling prophecy so. it's better to be an. optimist thank.

you I think this will be the last. subject we cover I've been trying to. wrap my head around this personal I've. been trying to wrap my head around the. concept of SpaceTime ah can you please. help me understand that okay space. SP is you know the what we see three. dimensions in this room you know we are. at a certain distance I mean you can put. Co a coordinate system in three. different directions that are.

perpendicular to each other these are. the three dimensions of space okay so um. there is up down one side and the other. side okay so three axis these are the. coordinates that you can Define any. object in this. room as being at a at a given location. in threedimensional. space okay um in addition to that we. have watches we can measure the progress.

of time right so we see an object that. can move from one location to another if. it has some velocity that connects these. two locations and um so we have a sense. of time as being. snapshots of the three-dimensional space. taken one after the other okay so that. that is the whole difference between. taking a camera photograph and a movie a.

movie is a sequence of such photographs. okay so so in addition to the three. coordinates of space we have. time. and before Einstein it was thought that. these are very different things that. space is rigid you can't really. curve it torque. it um and that it's flat basically that. if you draw a triangle in real space the. sum of the angles will always be 180° as. if it's lying on the flat surface.

Einstein introduced into physics the. idea that gravity is curved space. because objects can curve space so if. you draw a triangle near the sun it will. not the angles will not add up to 180°. there is a slight deviation that space. is curved it's sort of like if you draw. a triangle on the surface of a balloon. okay the and you you can in principle uh. have. 90° at each of the angles right because.

you put the bases on the equator and you. connect them to the pole and it will you. can make it 90° everywhere so 90 Plus 90. Plus 90 is more than 180 it's 270 so a. triangle on a curved surface has a. different sum of the angles and you can. tell that it's curved surface based on. that you can measure it and amazingly in. the real.

Universe uh we. actually drew a. triangle uh and um we can tell that. space is flat it's it's just like uh the. naive expectation because our universe. is the simplest possible um but at any. event what Einstein realized aside from. the fact that gravity is curvature of. space that actually. time is just like another coordinate of. space.

because in his early work uh that was a. decade before his theory of. gravity it's called the special theory. of relativity whereas the work on. gravity is the general theory of. relativity in the special theory of. relativity that he came up with in. 1905 he realized that if you assume that. the speed of light is. constant everywhere irrespective of how.

fast you are moving it's always the same. then you can regard time and. space as four. coordinates space time of space and time. and you have events in. space and time so previously we said the. location of an object in the room is. defined by the three coordinates of. space but now you can also Define an. event by tagging it with a.

time that you measure on a clock MH and. turns out that events are not occurring. at the same. time in all frames it may they may occur. at the same time in one frame but if you. moving relative to that frame Einstein. demonstrated in order to keep the speed. of light as. constant it will not be at the same time. in in a moving frame and actually length. is contracted when you.

move and time could be dilated time. is progressing more slowly in a frame. that is. moving uh so that was actually measured. because there are radioactive elements. isotopes that they are just like a clock. they Decay after some characteristic. time not all of them after the same time. but there is a characteristic time for. their Decay it's called the.

halflife and if you were to take those. Isotopes and accelerate them to a very. high speed close to the speed of. light they would decay in their own. frame after that characteristic time but. in your laboratory frame where they are. moving they would last much. longer so in order to maintain the. constancy of the speed of. light you have to recognize that time.

and space are relative depending on. whether you are moving or not so. Einstein basically put together space. and time as four coordinates of any. event and showed. how you can transform them from one. frame of reference to another whether. you are moving or not you will see. different things happening okay and um. so SpaceTime became a concept but then. in his theory of. gravity he suggested that gravity is.

just the curvature of space and. time now what's beautiful about the. universe is that time is ticking at the. same rate everywhere if the universe is. uniform so you can put clocks and they. would tick at the same rate everywhere. and therefore you can have a universal. sense of time that's why we say you know. when we look at a photograph from the. web telescope we can tell at what Cosmic. time the light was.

emitted because time is ticking at the. same rate everywhere in a uniform. Universe when you get close to a black. hole time would be ticking much more. slowly. because the situation is different you. have an object which is different from. its environment but for a uniform. Universe the temperature the the. conditions are the same everywhere the. density of matter is the same the. temperature is the same and time is. progressing at the same rate everywhere.

so that's a sense of having a universal. time in the. universe since the Big Bang the Big Bang. happened at the same time everywhere it. was not in a point in space it was just. at a point in time so. everywhere in the universe the density. was infinite at the same time the way to. think of it is just think of a cake that. has raisins in it and it's rising that's. like space.

expanding um so the raisins are receding. away from each other but if you go back. they approach each other everywhere in. the cake so so it doesn't matter where. you are you see the same density of. raisins in all parts of the cake and. when you go back enough before the cake. started Rising they were very close to. each other so that's like the big bang. oh god um and so.

SpaceTime is essential for Einstein's. theory of relativity both the special. Theory and the general theory of. relativity okay does that make sense it. does it does make sense I lied I do have. a couple more questions okay go ahead we. talk about you had brought up String. Theory earlier is string theory the same. thing as quantum entanglement no quantum. entanglement was a facet of quantum. mechanics that was actually.

realized when Einstein had a problem. with quantum mechanics you see in. quantum. mechanics you describe any physical. object as a a wave function a. probability distribution you don't know. the state that it's at there is a. probability that it's at different. states uh so according to Quantum. Mechanics there is an inherent. uncertainty for example an electron. cannot be pinned.

down to have a particular velocity at a. particular location you know we think of. billiard balls that they have a. particular place at a particular time. but that's not the way to think about. Bard balls or electrons according to. Quantum Mechanics there is a probability. distribution for the where they are and. what velocity they have and if you. wanted to know exactly where they are. you will have no idea about their. velocity and if you want to do exactly. what their velocity is you will have no. idea about their location so there is.

some intrinsic uncertainty to quantum. mechanics. and when you deal with a system that for. example includes two electrons. and you prepare it in a state where the. electrons are correlated with each other. but for example they spin in opposite. directions you just don't know if one. electron is spinning one way and the.

other one the other way or vice versa. you just don't know. that and then you separate those. electrons it's still a Quantum system. that is entangled in the sense that the. two electrons are oppos spinning in. opposite directions but you don't know. which one is which mhm okay so now you. separate them. enough such that no signal will come. from one to the.

other during the time of the measurement. that you're performing and you're just. looking at one of them suppose you look. at at one and you measure this that it's. spinning one way then you know that the. other one was spinning the other way. immediately mhm and then very far away. someone is doing the experiment. there and lo and behold indeed the spin. is the other way but there was no way. for communication to cross that distance. so Einstein together with two post dogs.

at the institute for advanced study at. Princeton where I was a post dog uh. suggested this experiment as a. test that the weird property of quantum. mechanics that it has this entanglement. does not make sense for him it didn't. make sense he thought there is a. physical reality okay so the fact that. you made the experiment at one point. should not affect what happens at. another point that is very far away.

because there is no way to communicate. that information but according to. Quantum Mechanics. fundamentally the system knows about. it and it's not as if you transfer. information faster than light because. the person who does the experiment at a. distant location doesn't know yet what. you found but somehow quantum mechanics. magically knows it and that's that makes. quantum mechanics difficult to. understand because you might think oh.

there is the probability the system. itself occupies some specific State you. just don't know it that's what you might. think that's not. true because once you measure one part. of the system the other one already. knows that you measured it and and will. behave accordingly even if flight was. not able to uh to cross and that is. called quantum entanglement and Einstein. thought that the experiment will. demonstrate that quantum mechanics the. the standard interpretation is wrong.

that in. fact you will be able to disprove this. unnatural property of quantum mechanics. so he wrote a paper in the late 1930s. with two post doogs Rosen and Podolski. at Princeton and suggested this. experiment it's called the Einstein. Podolski Rosen test it was done and. Einstein was proven to be wrong and then. the people who demonstrated that got the.

Nobel Prize for Quantum and Tangle. men now Einstein around the same time. when he was at Princeton between 1935. 1940 also wrote two other. papers one of them saying. itational waves do not. exist he wrote it with rosan the same. post do Nathan rosan and submitted it. for publication and the. reviewer said the paper is wrong it was.

the physical review a very prestigious. journal and Einstein got upset and said. how dare you even review my paper. because I'm Albert Einstein you know and. he said I will never submit a paper to. your. Journal uh and actually that reviewer. saved einon from an embarrassment there. was already a report about his work. in uh. newspapers. and the experiment that demonstrated.

that Einstein was wrong was done in. 2015 the ligo experiment detected. gravitational waves from the Collision. of two black holes uh at the edge of the. universe and he did it with laser beams. um that um you know when the. gravitational wave which is basically. the way to think of it is you know each. black hole curves space time around it. and when you put another one and let.

them orbit the center of mass that they. have uh they create ripples in space. time that propagate out just like when. you move a stick in a pond you create. ripples on the surface of the pond so in. the same way the motion of the two black. holes when they come together creates. ripples in space time that reach us and. when you have two laser beams. um um you know orthogonal to each other. you can see a contraction of space in.

one axis and um an an extension of space. in another as the wave is passing by you. see a periodic change and that's what. the ligo experiment did and in 2015. detected gravitational waves. demonstrating that Einstein's argument. back then was definitely incorrect as. some people said and they got the Nobel. priz for. it and then Einstein also wrote a paper. in U that black holes do not.

exist his argument. was you take a star and you let it. collapse well it's stars are spinning so. the rotation will prevent the material. from reaching a point. and he probably wrote this paper because. there was rivalry with Robert. Oppenheimer uh who was the director of. The Institute for advanced study at. Princeton at the time and he wrote an.

important paper about the collapse of. stars to black holes one of the early. papers with Snider and and Einstein. perhaps was motivated to show him wrong. and he suggested that rotation will. prevent the formation of a black hole. again we see black holes we even have an. image of them we detected them with the. ligo experiment in this gravitation. wave burst that was discovered so the.

people who discovered black holes got. another Nobel. Prize uh in all of this in the last. decade so what is the lesson that in. science when you work on the Frontiers. very often you can be wrong because you. don't know what the the right answer and. even Albert einon made three mistakes. but the people who proved him wrong got. the Nobel Prize for each of these so. being wrong is actually part of your. learning experience and it should be.

accepted and welcome because when you. are wondering and you are curious you. might be able you might make mistakes. but that's part of the learning and. eventually we all learn from. that so when it so with quantum. entanglement you're basically if you. split a particle or take two system of. two particles yes and no matter what the. distan is in between them they are. correlated they will they mimic each. other in an equal but opposite reaction.

as long as the environment around them. does not change their state as long as. you preserve the original state oh God. right and um so that is a unique feature. of quantum mechanics we don't understand. quantum mechanics fundamental at a. fundamental level because we always. think of a particle as being at one. place at one mhm velocity at any given. time and and that's not the case. according to Quantum Mechanics there is.

this concept of a wave function now why. is that beneficial for Quantum Computing. and now we are building computers that. are based on. entanglement because you can with a. Quantum system you can basically. uh. incorporate multiple States like two. states at the same time they. coexist and you don't need to know what. one is and what the other is but this.

gives rise to the notion of a cubit. where you can have both of them at the. same time so in principle you can do. calculations that would be would require. much more time if you were in one State. or the other. because you know suppose you have a. system of two bits like zero or one and. then you have another one and another. one and so alt together the amount of uh.

possibilities grows like two to the. power n where n is the number of such. systems and if you were to incorporate. those as possibilities within a Quantum. entangled system then you can save a lot. of time when you do the computation and. and that's what quantum computers are. based on and um it's a very fundamental. aspect of quantum. mechanics that not only. Einstein was unable to figure out but.

nobody knows what is the meaning of. quantum mechanics at a fundamental level. because we don't think that way and um. you know this is another example for how. ignorant we are even a a pillar of. modern physics I mean everything in. reality is based on quantum mechanics. even that we can't really understand and. you know there are all kinds of theories. interpreting Quantum Mechanics for. example uh the many world.

interpretations the idea there is that. when you deal with a Quantum system. suppose it has multiple possibilities. when you measure it you basically go. into a world that has that possibility. realized and if you were to do the. experiment and measure different. possibilities you go to another branch. and so the you know the universe is. branching off to many possibilities and. you always live in one branch out of the. many possible that's one interpretation.

of quantum mechanics which by the way. you can test. experimentally because suppose if you. believe in it I don't but if you believe. and suppose you take a gun and put it to. your head and pull the trigger now if. there is a chance that you will survive. that you can pull the trigger as many. times as you want but you will always be. in a branch of the universe that lets. you.

survive so if you believe in the M many. world interpretation you will always be. alive because there is always that small. probability that and you will always be. there you will not be in the other. branches that do not have you L. interesting interesting. but you. know we don't understand quantum. mechanics at a fundamental level that's. the bottom line when it comes to quantum. entanglement it seems I believe China. has claimed that they can communicate. through that right is that a possibility.

well yeah I mean um there is a way of um. uh using lasers. to uh keep the information on an. entangle Quantum State and use it for. communication by the way entanglement. also. allow allows to encode. the uh. encrypt uh. information because imagine that um you.

separate the quantum system and you know. that it's correlated and if one person. takes part of the system and the other. one has the other they will know what. what the other part has by checking. their own so um um could this be a way. to explore what happens inside of a. black. hole. um yes in in fact um there is the. concept of Hawking radiation and um uh.

so. back uh in the early 1970s there was a. PhD student at Princeton uh named jaob. beckenstein and he realized that. um um. a theorem that was proven by Stephen. Hawking that black holes when they merge. the area of their Event Horizon can only. increase so beckenstein said oh well. that sounds familiar because according.

to thermodynamics entropy always. increases so maybe the surface of black. holes have entropy associated with them. so when you put them together the area. can only increase because the entropy is. proportional to the area. and um Steven Hawking thought no that's. nonsense and he will prove it wrong so. he. examined a simple version. of quantum mechanics in a curved.

SpaceTime and realized that beckenstein. was right actually that in fact when you. do the calculation that there is. radiation emitted by the surface of a. black hole very faint for the. astrophysical black holes we know about. but if you consider small black holes it. could be very powerful and in fact the. smaller the black hole gets the more. powerful is the radiation coming out of. it so it's like an explosion if you.

start with a small black hole and it. keeps shrinking because it's losing. energy by radiating then eventually it. explodes and he wrote a a paper which. was the most important scientific. discovery that stepen Hawking made in. his career that he called it black hole. explosions basically that quantum. mechanics says that there is a surface. temperature to black holes they have. entropy on the surface which is now. called the beckenstein Hawking entropy. but Hawking realized that it's really. associated with the radiation coming out.

and black holes can. evaporate but for astrophysical black. holes that have roughly the mass of the. Sun or much more than that um the. evaporation time is much longer than the. age of the universe you really need a. black hole with a mass of a kilometer. sized asteroid you know in order for it. to evaporate within the age of the. universe and small black holes would. just disappear if they were made early. in the universe by now they would go.

away so. um one way to think about Hawking. radiation is that um there are pairs of. particles one if you have a pair of. particles one of them gets emitted. far out and the other one falls into the. black. hole and what you mentioned as an. entanglement in the context of black. holes perhaps you can learn about the. inside of a black hole from an.

entanglement of what you. see outside the black hole the idea is. that even though a black hole is a. prison if there is a particle that is. big enough in size bigger than the. prison you can't you can't confine it to. the prison so you know like um particles. have a characteristic size to their wave. function for example if you're dealing. with a photon a particle of light it has. a wavelength so if you consider a black.

hole and consider a photon that has a. wavelength roughly the size of the Event. Horizon you can't really keep it inside. your. prison and that's the origin of the. Hawking radiation that you know pairs of. particles keep popping up and. uh on and off from the vacuum but if. they cannot be confined in the black. hole then you. know some of those particles Escape away. out of the black hole and others fall in. and so so to answer your your question.

it's a very deep question that you know. could the Hawking radiation is not fully. understood a lot of people are doing. work about it because there is this you. know fundamental question of what. happens to information when it falls. into a black hole you know just imagine. throwing a book into a black hole all. the information will be buried inside. the Event Horizon but then you have the. black hole evaporating emitting.

radiation and then it disappears okay so. where is the book is the content of the. book in the radiation that was emitted. it was not obvious cuz Hawking when he. did the calculation. the radiation that coming out did not. carry any information of what fell into. the black hole so so this is a whole. subject of study over the. past 50 years and um it's actually.

exactly 50 years since he wrote his. paper and a lot of things waiting to be. understood in the context of quantum. entanglement and black holes very. interesting thank you thank you for. sharing that and and uh. AI what a fascinating interview thank. you for coming thanks for having me and. hopefully it will be even more. fascinating in the future especially if.

we find that we have a. neighbor um the first question I would. ask is what happened before the Big Bang. the second question where is the nearest. Hub where I can socialize with. extraterrestrials and ask them more. questions well I hope that happens. sooner than later but uh but uh a I just. wish you the best of luck with your work. your research your career and um and uh. I really hope to see you again thank you.

so much thank you. [Music]. [Applause]. no matter where you're watching sha Ryan. Show from if you get anything out of. this please like comment subscribe and. most importantly share this everywhere. you possibly can and if you're feeling. extra generous please leave us a review.

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