Mom Microwaved 2-Month-Old Baby For 5 Minutes While Having A Seizure

Barabing baraboom. March 17th, 2011. It's a rainy day in. Sacramento, California. Grandma Chua has. mud all over her shoes from doing yard. work at the back of the house, but. that's not even what she's concerned. about right now. Right now, Grandma Chua. is staring at this really bizarre odd. sight. She's standing at the opening of. the back door to the house, so the back. door is open, and in the open doorway is. her daughter and her granddaughter.

Ka Yang, Chua's daughter, is holding the. little 2-month-old baby in her arms, and. everything about this sight is just not. normal. First of all, Ka's face is red. She's sweaty. She looks like she's just. worked out, but she's not even in. workout clothes. It's just a little bit. puzzling, but at least it's not alarming. yet. Until Grandma Chua's eyes go down, Ka's pants, they're wet. There's a massive stain on her thighs. I. mean, sure, maybe she could have spilled. water on herself, but it honestly it. looks more like she urinated on herself.

Then Grandma Chua's eyes go to baby. Mirabelle, the 2-month-old. granddaughter. She's not moving. She's. not making a single noise. In fact, her. face is red, and her body seems. unusually stiff, but it's very hard to. tell because she's in her onesie, she's. wrapped up in this blanket, and her. daughter is telling her, "Mom, we got to. go to the hospital. She's sick. She's. sick. Hurry, we got to go to the. hospital.". Another odd detail Grandma Chua notices. right at this moment is that her. daughter, Ka, sounds like her tongue is.

injured. She's not enunciating like she normally. does. I imagine it's kind of like trying. to talk with your fingers clamped on. your tongue. It sounds kind of odd. Kind. of like that the whole time, and a. little bit of blood is on her lip. Grandma Chua goes straight into grandma. mode. She runs into the house. She takes. her granddaughter, Mirabelle, places her. down, unzips her PJs, and her skin, the. skin on this little baby's chest is. bright red. Her skin is peeling. She's. got these angry bright red marks all.

over her body. Ka reaches over to peel off Marabelle's. skin near the chest. I don't know if it. was an instinct. I don't know why she's. doing that. Peel off? Just grab and peel, I guess. Maybe she's. confused. I don't know. But grandma. trust slaps her daughter's hands away. and within minutes 911 is called. And. within minutes of that first responders. are arriving at the scene. They're. rushing into the house. What happened? What happened? The consensus in the. house seemed to be that the baby was. accidentally dropped onto the space.

heater and now she's unconscious. There was nothing the first responders. could do. Within 9 minutes baby. Marabelle would be pronounced dead at. the scene of the crime. And there would just be so many. questions that the authorities have now. Like why is Marabelle's body covered in. burns but her hair and her clothes. aren't nearly as burnt? That doesn't. make sense if she fell on the space. heater. What happened during the 11. minutes that Marabelle was left alone. with her mom? And does it have anything.

to do with the little purple pacifier. that they find inside the microwave? We would like to thank today's sponsors.

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in death. There's pretty graphic. descriptions of potentially how a. 2-month-old passed. If that is too much. for you, please take care of yourself. And one last announcement before we get. started, if you guys are looking for. anything lighter, we just released a. brand new podcast called MOTS or Moral. of the Story where we cover these It's. basically me telling my husband these. wild stories of international. celebrities that have been in some of. the most bizarre scandals. The most. desirable man in Japan that people are.

willing to spend half a million dollars. a night to spend time with. So, there's. just a lot lighter stuff covered on. there if you guys need a break. So, you. can listen to it now on all podcast. platforms and on YouTube under Stephanie. Soo. So, with that being said, let's get. started. Everything about that day was. beyond normal or at least it's supposed. to be normal before Mirabelle died. So, Ka Yang's husband is this truck driver. and he's gone for the whole day. He's. not coming back for probably a few more. days. In fact, sometimes he's gone for. like 2 weeks at a time. But, it's fine.

The family always comes to help Ka so. she's not alone. Her brother-in-law, Va, so Ka Yang's brother-in-law, was at the. house. He was living at the house when. this happened. He's just helping her. take care of the kids. And on that. particular night, even Ka Yang's mom. slept over the night before. So, she's got a lot of support. So, she. can just focus on doing her work. She. works from home and applying for. benefits and taking care of the kids. They have four kids, three boys under. seven and now 2-month-old Mirabelle.

Va, the brother-in-law, had just left. the house to go pick the boys up from. school. And when he walked out of the. house, he remembers seeing Ka holding. Mirabelle and working on her computer. Ka's mom is out in the yard doing some. yard work. And for the next 11 minutes, Ka and Mirabelle are alone. The police need to know what happened in. those 11 minutes. They only have Ka's. word, or at least initially, to go off. of. And Ka said, "I I don't know what. happened. I felt this weird pounding in.

my head. I saw this bright flash of. white light. And that's all I remember.". That's it. The next thing she knows. she's waking up on the floor. She's. laying on something wet. Her pants are. drenched. And she's like, "That's my. urine." She wet herself. And she had bit. her tongue. Her tongue is raw, like she. bit off a chunk of it. She didn't. actually bite off a chunk of it, but it. felt like it. It It was just weird to. have her memory wiped for however long. that was. She was at her desk one. moment, and then on the floor of her.

bedroom drenched in urine the next. moment with no recollection of how she. got there, what happened in between, nothing. So, in this confused, head-pounding. state, she gets up, and she sees. 2-month-old Mirabelle on the ground. laying next to her. And her face, Mirabelle's eyes aren't open, but her. whole face is bright red. She reaches. over, and Mirabelle is stiff. She's not. breathing. She's not responding to. touch. She's not moving. And Ka is now. full-on panicking. She said she picks up.

Mirabelle, rushes into the kitchen. because that's where she assumed her mom. would be at this point. Her mom rushes. in through the back door. They rush to. take off Mirabelle's pajamas. They. notice all these bizarre burn marks, and. they start freaking out. Val walks in. through that door at the exact moment. He had left the house for 15 minutes to. grab Ka's sons from school. Now he's. walking in, and everybody's freaking. out. And Mirabelle is unconscious on the. table. And he would be the one to call. 911. So, Val is the brother-in-law, and he. just returned home with the sons? Yes.

Ka and her family agree. I mean, in this. state, she must have fell on top of the. baby on the space heater. She's holding. Mirabelle, suffers a seizure, drops. Mirabelle onto the space heater, and. almost squashes her. So, she's on top of. her sandwiching her onto the space. heater. That's the only thing that makes. sense, right, for these burns? But, it doesn't make sense. Not even a. little bit. Because how is Mirabelle. burned head to toe, but her hair and. pajamas are not that burnt? Both sides of her body are burnt. It. would take the investigators 3 months to.

figure out exactly what happened to. Mirabelle. They had a hunch, but to get the exact. evidence that they needed to arrest Ka, it would take 3 months. The experts working on the case said, "She has some deep tissue burns, probably the worst I'd ever seen.". Another officer states, "I mean, it's. clear the child was burned, but the. source the source was mysterious. The. burns are not typical of fire or acid. injuries even, and there is damage to. the baby's clothing, but not too much.

And specifically, she had radiation. burns. That's very specific. One of the. most common ways people get radiation. burns is through chemotherapy. If the radiation affects the healthy. tissues, then it could lead to internal. burns. Or let's say you have repeated. and prolonged exposure to x-rays. performed on the body, it could cause. radiation burns. Or you could be near a. nuclear accident, that's a radiation. burn. Or you're mishandling radioactive. materials. Those are the most common. ways. This makes the situation even more.

confusing because by all accounts, Mirabelle is a healthy baby. She likely. did not have enough x-rays to warrant. radiation burns. She did not need. chemotherapy. She's not near a nuclear. plant or an accident. She would not be. in a setting where she would handle. radioactive materials. It's not. something you just buy at the store. She's 2 months old. And the level of the. burns are extensive. The burns run so. deep that it fried her internal organs. The police are quick to look for any. other cases where this happened, where. an infant was found deceased and had.

extensive radiation burns on their body. They come across two. Joshua Maldon from. Texas, his 2-month-old daughter was. found with second and third-degree burns. to her left ear, cheek, hand, and. shoulder. She did survive, but her left. ear had to be partially amputated, and. she had to have several skin grafts. because of radiation burns. Joshua originally told the authorities. that his daughter had suffered from. severe sunburns. And when the. authorities told him, "We don't believe. you," he stated, "Well, I might have. also accidentally spilled hot water on.

her while I was making some coffee.". But that all turned out to be a lie. Then in Ohio, China Arnold's 28-day-old. daughter, Paris, was found badly burned. after a fight with China's boyfriend. So, China and her boyfriend get into. this huge argument where the boyfriend. is like, "That's not my baby. You You. slept with somebody else. That's not my. baby.". They get into this huge argument, and. then Paris, the 28-day-old. daughter, is found dead with internal. radiation burns.

In both cases, the children's injuries. were consistent with Baby Maribel. And. in both cases, both children had been. microwaved. There are reasons why when you heat up. food on the stove or in the oven or. perhaps a microwave, they taste. differently, even if it's the same. leftover pizza, cuz they heat food. differently. If you put pizza on the. stove, the stovetop gets really hot, whether it's gas or electric, and then. it heats up the pan, and then you place. the pizza on the hot pan. An oven, it.

heats up the air inside the oven. So, that's why when you open it, you get. that rush of hot air. The air touches. the food and heats up the pizza on the. pan in the oven. Microwaves, they work a. little bit differently. A microwave is. essentially a device that boils water. If you want to simplify it, it heats up. water. Without getting too technical, a. microwave works by firing these beams of. electromagnetic waves at food, and these. beams cause the water molecules inside. the food to start rotating, and they.

start rotating faster and faster, and. the water molecules, essentially, they. start vibrating. And that vibrating. friction produces heat because they're. moving around back and forth, back and. forth very quickly. That's why an empty. plate in the microwave does not get too. hot because there's no water molecules. to vibrate and heat up. To some extent, microwaves do heat and cook food from. the inside, which I agree there is. anecdotal evidence that there the frozen. burrito in the microwave is hot on the.

outside, cold on the inside. But that. can be because of two different things. One, there are cold spots in microwaves. because the radiation waves do not hit. certain points of food. It literally. does not go that deep. But also, the way. that microwaves work, they bring that. heat to the surface of the food. So to. put it simply, water from inside the. food turns into steam and tries to. escape the food, but it can't escape. So. it just liquefies again at the surface. of the food, which is why most. microwaved items are left a bit squishy,

if you will. There are speculations on what could. happen if you're trapped inside of a. microwave. These are the speculations. If you're trapped in a microwave? Yes. I know that we're more commonly. used to the household microwaves, but. there's industrial strength microwaves. where adult humans could fit into easily. and the door could be locked. Wow. That's like horror movie. Yeah. So within the first few seconds, you will likely feel a warmth on your. skin. But other than that, the first 10. seconds will be more so confused. panicking. It's around 11 seconds in.

that you might start noticing some weird. discomfort in your eyes. The eyes go. first. The human eyeball is made up of. 98% water, and those water molecules. inside the eyeball are going to start. vibrating. And your vision is going to. start vibrating. There was a woman who. stuck her head in a microwave and. somehow managed to turn it on. Please. don't ever do this. It's But she stated. that she felt her eyeball vibrating. inside of her head. She said her vision was also vibrating. She's lucky that she did not lose her.

eyesight completely. 25 seconds in, there's going to be this. prickly sensation on your skin like. you're being poked by one of those. cactus plants. It stings, but it's not. the biggest pain you've ever felt in. your life. Within 30 seconds, your body. will start profusely sweating. It's a. natural reaction to your body's. temperature rising. And then around that. point, at 40 seconds in, you might. notice some steam coming out of your. body. Literally, you're generating steam. Those are the water molecules inside of. your body that are now turning into.

steam. 45 seconds in, you start seeing. blistering or skin starting to peel like. you're having a really bad sunburn. That's going to include the surface of. your tongue. You might start to develop boils on your. tongue that start to burst. At the. 70-second mark, it is likely you'll have. second-degree burns, which are not the. worst, but could still take several. weeks to heal as long as you get out. But if you don't, if you're still. trapped in there within the next 5. seconds, so 1 minute and 15 seconds in,

blood, pus, bodily fluids will start. trying to break out of the skin barrier. They're going to start trying to force. their way out of the layers of the skin. You will likely be conscious for this. After 80 seconds, the fluid in the eyes. becomes heated up causing your vision to. warp. It'll likely be incredibly. physically difficult, near impossible, to try and keep your eyes open at this. point because of the pain. But once you. close your eyes, your ears start going. off. The pressure in your ears starts. becoming unmanageable to the point where. you know how your ears are an important.

part of keeping balance? Once that's. gone, you're going to lose all sense of. balance. You're going to fall to the ground and. not know which way is up. Then comes the whistling. It sounds like. there's water boiling inside of your ear. and it's trying to get out. It's like an. angry pot of pasta on the stove, but it. sounds and feels like it's directly in. your eardrum. Again, this is a. theoretical idea of what would happen, but it's estimated that after 110. seconds, most humans will collapse. The. body will shut down, go into shock. After 2 minutes, the eyeballs will pop.

I mean, I don't think they're going to. pop like balloons, but I imagine it'll. erupt inside the eye socket or blood. vessels will pop. Then comes the third-degree burns. There. may be bodily fluids seeping out of the. eyes, and the eardrums will rupture. We're just 2 minutes and 20 seconds in. It's going to be at the 2 minute and 25. second mark that inside your body will. likely start to boil, which makes the. entire surface of your skin bright red. The smell will be intense at this point. After 160 seconds, it will likely be.

unbearable to breathe, and as you're. focused on trying to get air into your. system, the blood will thicken, coagulate, the water content in your. body is rapidly dropping, and you will. be totally paralyzed from the nerve. damage and shock. After 200 seconds, or. 3 minutes and 20 seconds, one will. likely suffer a debilitating stroke, and. after 5 minutes, there's going to be. massive organ failure that leads to. death. This is theoretically what would. happen if you were to be trapped inside. an industrial strength microwave, which.

is about 3,000 watts of power. Most. household microwaves are about 1,000. watts of power. I imagine things will. just take a bit longer, but torturous. nonetheless and fatal nonetheless. It. essentially cooks you from the inside. out. This is again, putting it simply, but just imagine all the water and. likely the blood in your body starts to. boil while it's inside your body. It's. heating up inside your body, and it. can't really escape. It's just. vibrating, causing friction, causing. immense heat.

Depending on the power of the microwave, a human being might live for several. minutes, but it won't be painless. Eyes, brains, veins, arteries, internal. organs are heating up from the inside. Water molecules are starting to go from. liquid to a gas state. Your body is. generating steam. Most of the injuries will be internal. and it is essentially being lit on fire. but from the inside. Which doesn't make sense with Ka Yang's. initial story that she had a seizure, she collapsed on her daughter onto the. space heater and crushed her burning her.

to death. She does not recall because of. this said seizure. Now, it just doesn't. make any sense with the injuries. Side. note, it is March in Sacramento, which. is a bit chilly. It's customary for. among women, their monk, to keep near a. fire or a warm heater for a few months. after giving birth. And Mirabelle is. only 2 months old. So, some people even. questioned why was there a space heater? Why were they using a space heater? It. wasn't cold enough for a space heater, they were saying. Oh. But that's why. There was a space heater. on the ground right next to Ka Yang's.

work computer. So, there is one there. But that doesn't make sense. A microwave. does not heat up objects in the same way. a space heater would. If she had fallen. on the space heater, let's say she fell. onto the space heater on her back, she. would have severe. external burns on her back and she would. not have that many internal burns. Yeah, and on the clothes, right? Yes, and Mirabelle's injuries are not. consistent with that. One of the officers in the investigation. team states, "The child sustained. unusual and rare thermal burns." The.

investigation revealed that these burns. were consistent with only two or three. other cases in the country with the same. similar type of injuries and that was. determined that those injuries occurred. as a result of being burned in a. microwave. So, they arrived at the scene. They heard the version of stories. They obviously didn't believe it because. it didn't look like that. And then they. went back to the station and they found. the other cases. When did they find the. microwave? You say there's a. The pacifier? They found it early on. But they can't You know, when you find a.

pacifier in the microwave, some people. might think you're heating up the. pacifier. Some people might think. another kid, maybe the son, put it in. there. There's no evidence. There's no. blood or anything in the microwave that. would indicate, "Hey, someone was in the. microwave.". So, they didn't make that connection. right away. They had an inkling. They had a. suspicion, but it wasn't enough to. arrest Kayang. Mhm. Because she does have diagnosed. epilepsy. So, it's not like her story doesn't. check out completely. There It just. doesn't make full and complete sense to.

the investigators. They find the. pacifier. They bring in Mirabelle to be. autopsied. Her injuries are bizarre. They look through all the case files of. weird incidents where children have. turned up with similar injuries. They. find those cases and they actually reach. out to those forensic pathologists that. worked on those cases. And they were. able to say, "Yeah, this is extremely. rare, but these seem to be the same. injuries.". Because it's such a rare injury is how. they're explaining it. It's not very. clear. It's not like someone was stabbed.

or shot. It's It's very bizarre. So, within 3 months they gather enough. evidence to come in and arrest Ka. Like. I was saying, the injuries are. extensive. Baby Mirabelle had injuries. to over 80% of her body, external. thermal injuries, as well as second and. third-degree burns on approximately 56%. of her body. She had severe internal. burns, including fourth-degree radiation. burns. Fourth-degree radiation burns are. among the most severe types of burns. Fourth-degree burns are probably the.

worst burns. It's extensive damage to. the skin, the underlying tissues, and it. reaches all the way down to the bones. The burns. Typically, people with. fourth-degree radiation burns are. hospitalized in burn units. They need. extensive care and monitoring to the. point where surgery is likely required. in order for them to remove the dead. tissues. There's going to be a lot of. dead tissues. And most likely, if you. even survive this, you're going to need. physical therapy and extensive. rehabilitation just to be able to regain. mobility and function. There's no way.

that baby Mirabelle would have survived. her injuries. The radiation, it. penetrated her organs. It cooked her. from the inside. The medical team bring. in an expert microwave oven expert who. bring up a few things. They were able to gather that Mirabelle. was likely placed into a microwave on. her back based on the burns. Additionally, they estimated that. Mirabelle was placed into the microwave. at at least 2 to 3 minutes at minimum. They can't be exact with their time, but. they suspect if they had to get very, very close, perhaps 5 minutes is their.

best bet factoring in the types of burns. that she had. Wow. Mind you, she was only left alone with. Kaiyang for 11 minutes. But their observations indicate that she. likely would have passed away in 2 to 3. minutes of being in the microwave. That. the burns would have been fatal by that. point. Mirabelle's official cause of. death would be thermal injuries. resulting in overexposure to microwave. radiation in a microwave. Kaiyang had effectively cooked little. baby Mirabelle on high heat. That's how.

they describe it. Her insides have been. described as being fried from the. inside. The pathologist testified that the. radiation from the microwave cooked. through her stomach and small. intestines. The investigators, they sit Kaiyang and. her mother down for an interview, and. they want to know what happened when you. were alone with that baby because you. did not fall on a space heater. Kaiyang. explains it was just a normal day. Everything was normal. She gave. Mirabelle a bottle and a pacifier that. morning. I mean, nothing was strange.

Well, nothing except there was something that. was a little strange. Mirabelle's eyes. were moving back and forth. They were kind of almost like if you. were tracking a fly, or if you're doing. a drunk driving test where you have to. track side to side. Her eyes, it's like. she was following a fly left to right. And that's when Kai checked, and there. was no fly. Kai would tell the investigators, "It. kind of scared me a bit, but she tried. not to think anything too deep into it. because she believed in God.".

Okay, what is going on here? The. investigators are so intrigued by this. This was not the line of questioning. they thought they were going to go down. Wait, why? So, she saw the baby looking. left and right, like looking at a fly? Yes, flying around. But, she thought. it's okay because she believe in God? Yes, there was no fly. So, it kind of. freaked her out a little bit, like what. is she looking at? Okay, okay. Cuz I guess to her, she's had multiple. children and she's never seen babies 2. months old track like that. Ah, I. Cuz I guess babies will only look at.

certain objects that are moving around. And even then, I don't know if they do. that well at 2 months old. So, sounds like she's getting freaked. out. That's why she mentioned God. I. see. "And she's like, I'm getting freaked. out, but I looked, there's nothing. there, there's no fly, but that's fine. because I believe in God." Listen, I. don't know. That's what she's saying and. the investigators are also like, "What. is going on? I don't understand." Now, Ka doesn't necessarily change her story. per se, but she starts adding to it. In. a subsequent interview with both Ka Yang. and her mom, they both bring up the. words spirits and possessions.

For the average interrogator, that is. sending off massive alarm bells. What do. you mean by that? Are you saying that. the spirits made you do it? Is that what. we're doing? Because that's a whole. different story, that's a whole. different defense, honestly. What are. you saying exactly? The spirit called me, so I had a. seizure. Before the seizure, Mirabelle was moving. her eyes back and forth looking at. something. She was crying and spitting. out her pacifier. What was she looking at? The spirit and. demon together. Through Ka Yang and her husband's.

statements, the authorities gathered. that Ka Yang's new version of events. included her seeing a Caucasian demon or. spirit outside staring at her and. Mirabelle through the window. So, suddenly they're like, "Okay, you're. seeing spirits.". They're saying the baby see spirit or. she's seeing spirit? She's saying the baby's eyes were moving. around like she's following a spirit. Then she looked out the window and there. was a Caucasian demon staring at them. What? the investigators are gathering. Now,

it's reported that Ka Yang told her. husband that the spirit was walking. around outside the house and wanted. their baby. But as quickly as they come. to this newfound story, it starts. getting backtracked and clarified, if. you will. Ka Yang states that she never. stated the spirit made her do anything. She does not have a history of talking. to spirits or demons or taking direction. from them. Then it's further clarified. that Ka Yang was not talking about the. spirits that the investigators believe. she was referring to. In Mong culture, many people believe epilepsy is when a.

spirit invades the body. A seizure is the spirit taking over, if. you will. Hmm, okay. Ka Yang's husband clarifies to the. investigators that he himself is not one. of those people. He thinks it's all. He's also Mong. He implies. that Ka Yang is the same. Ka Yang and. her husband are both members of the LDS. Church. So, he's like, "We don't believe. in shamanism. We don't believe in the. spirit taking over your body during a. seizure. It's all bullshit." And at. least according to Ka Yang's husband, he. seems very adverse to all of it. He.

doesn't seem like he believes in it at. all. So, this is getting weirder. They're saying, "Oh, no, no, no. When we. were saying the spirit was happening, it. we're talking about the seizure. That's. just how Mong people talk about. seizures.". Is the argument. Okay. So, it's getting very confusing, I. think, for the investigators, but also. the general public to kind of decipher. So, if you guys are Mong, please let me. know in the comments. I tried to do as. much digging as possible to get some. background I did some that we're going. to go into, but it's just getting more.

and more complex. First, it's epilepsy, a seizure, a space heater, but now it's. Wait, are we talking about this is just. the verbage used, or are we talking. literal spirits? Hmm. What's happening here? I see. This isn't making sense. So, the court. doc has sprinkles of mentions of spirits. in it. It's a bit vague in the court. documents for some reason, but But does. seem that after Mirabal's death, there's. a 3-month period, like I said, where Ka. is not arrested and she's at home with. her family. It's alleged that she had a. priest come in and there were some.

concerns that the house was built on a. cemetery. Who had concern? The priest had the. concern? It seems like Ka or her family had. concerns. So now the police are like, "Whoa, wait. You said it was just kind of a way of. speaking, but now you're bringing in a. priest and asking if this house was. built on a cemetery, which makes us. believe that you believe in spirits. So. now we're even more confused.". Authorities state that Ka Yang allegedly. told her mom, "We live on a cemetery. We.

can't tell them the truth. They will. think we're crazy. There's evidence. question mark?". I don't know how they allegedly got this. alleged conversation. But the. investigators, they take it very. seriously because in one interview, Ka. Yang's brother does state that the. authorities straight-up asked him, "Hey, do you guys do human sacrifices?" Which. is. kind of a crazy No, they don't. It's a. crazy question to ask. They just asked me a question, like. about uh.

Do you know how to we do uh shaman. shamans? You know, they So they'll ask. me do we have a sacrifice human, you. know, people, you know? And then I told. them that, you know, if that if if you. know, I told them we don't sacrifice uh. people, you know? I said we do we use. animals. And I told him if he didn't, you know, if he didn't like it, you. know, I could go and go find elders that. do it and tell them thank you. So he you. know, he didn't uh really like like like. it, so you know, I feel like I I just. walked out the. uh out his office. Now, there are some arguments that all. of this is just lost in translation,

that some of the cultural context is. lost on the investigators, which makes. all of this more complicated. The. prosecution actually believe these types. of behaviors to be in line with someone. who might be suffering from undiagnosed. postpartum psychosis. Someone who has. all of this cultural background of. believing in spirits. Now, she's 2. months into alleged postpartum psychosis. and she starts believing these spirits. are real. Mhm. And they think she was in a state of. psychosis and killed her child in a. microwave. Whereas these types of. conversations.

might not be so serious to someone of. Hmong background. So, it's it's it's complicated of how. much of it is cultural insensitivity and. how much of it is truth. We don't know. So, for example, there's a whole book. written about this. But, there was this. little girl in America. Her name is Lia. She's Hmong. What's the book? It's called The Spirit Catches You and. You Fall Down is the name of the book. and it's about a little girl named Lia. She's Hmong. She lives in America. She's. diagnosed with severe epilepsy. So, this.

book is about how the doctors are. struggling to understand her parents and. the parents don't understand the. doctors. It talks about how in Hmong. culture seizures are caused by your soul. leaving your body, which translates to. the title of the book, The Spirit. Catches You and You Fall Down. Mhm. Many Hmong people see illness and. healing as spiritual matters. They think. that your spirit has been. harmed or sick first and your physical. body is the secondary reaction to it. almost. So, you need to heal that spirit.

first and heal within almost. Western. medicine works in the complete opposite. way. So, for example, in this book. specifically, the doctor keeps. prescribing anticonvulsants for the. child. The parents opt to do traditional. medicine and they don't feed her the. anticonvulsants. It becomes a whole thing where the. doctors get CPS involved. The baby gets. taken away from the parents and it. angers a lot of people because at the. end of the day, no one cares about that. little girl as much as the parents do. They just don't believe in the same. things that the doctors believe in.

It's a tricky situation of I think most. people come out of the book not knowing. who's right. Mhm. Cuz when someone has a complete Our. belief in Western medicine is probably. as strong as their belief in traditional. medicine. So, it's very hard to argue. The book talks about how in Hmong. culture, having seizures is almost. associated with having a special. intuition. You're more spiritually. connected because your spirit is leaving. your body every now and then, which. actually makes people with epilepsy. great traditional healers. Side note,

Hmong shamanism is all about healing. So, there's a huge emphasis on healing. and it's an honor to be a healer. You're. helping everyone around you. And it's. fascinating because little Lia's parents. in the book, they approach baby Lia's. seizures with a mix of concern for their. daughter, but also pride that she's. almost chosen to be a healer, which is. very honorable. But, the book points out. all the cultural insensitivities held by. the hospital and the doctors because had. they been a bit more culturally. sensitive, I think this could have gone.

a completely different way. They could. have better helped the parents. understand why she needed the. medication. So, in this case, people are. wondering, is this happening again? Are. the police taking things too literally. without factoring in the cultural. aspects of how Hmong culture sees. seizures and they're like, "Oh, she said. spirits. She said possession. She said. she saw a spirit outside. She's. possessed. She has psychosis." Whereas. in Hmong culture, it might be, "I saw a. spirit outside. indicating I saw a white flash. I felt a. seizure come on." So, most people who. have seizures, they can feel it coming.

Things kind of get warped a few seconds, maybe even a few minutes in. So, maybe. that's just how she describes it. But, it's not literally, "I saw a demon. outside my window.". Right. I see. I see. So, her it could. literally mean that she's telling them. that, "Oh, I'm having a seizure.". I could feel a seizure coming and then I. had a seizure. And the seizure is. associated with her spirit coming out of. her body and spirits being involved, right? And she's just describing it in. the way that she knows best to describe. it. But, they're like, "Whoa, spirit.

You saw a demon outside. You have. psychosis, lady.". So, it's just a matter of. Yeah, it's really. they have to understand that to make a. fair. judgement on what they're trying to say. Now, she could very well be in a state. of psychosis, I don't know, right? But, it's just a matter of how much of it is. misinterpreted. Right. Eventually, Ka Yang will state that she. does not believe in her epilepsy being. controlled by spirits. She's like, "I. was just The verbage is known in the.

culture." So, she's arguing, "No, no, you're getting it all wrong." She also. argues she would never hurt her. daughter. She's been trying to have a. daughter for 2 years after having three. sons. She prayed every single day for a. daughter. Why would she harm her. daughter? It's got to be the seizure. Something happened with the seizure. She's trying to explain to them that. she's had seizures for such a long time. I mean, since she was She's 29 at the. time of the killing, since she was 13, 14. Her first seizure was at her uncle's. house, and it was very clearly.

traumatic. Everyone hoped it would be a. one-time incident, but she was diagnosed. with epilepsy. Since then, she had. suffered about 100 seizures for the next. 15 years, which is about six to seven. every single year, or once every 2. months. Wow. She states she's on anti-seizure. medication. It's not like she's in. denial trying to keep having seizures, but it's not working. Side note, I will say that does seem. common. Approximately 30 to 40% of. people with epilepsy are resistant to. medications. It happens for a wide.

variety of reasons. Perhaps the patient. is not consistent with taking the. medication, or initially they respond. well, but they build a tolerance. The. dosage could be too low, or some. medications are just simply not. effective. And there are different types. of seizures. So, if you have multiple. types of seizures, the medication might not work for all of. them. Mhm. But first, a seizure is when you. essentially have abnormal electrical. discharges in the brain. Think of your. brain like a big computer, and sometimes. the computer gets mixed up and starts.

sending way too many signals at once. Imagine opening up all of the apps on. your computer at the same time. simultaneously. It's going to go into. overdrive, overheat, and probably shut. down. That is a seizure. And not each. seizure is the same. I think most of us. picture the type of seizure that's. depicted more often in movies or in. media where someone falls to the ground. and they start convulsing. But there's a. lot of other types of seizures. There's. focal seizures where it just affects one. part of the brain. One part of the brain.

almost zaps. It has an overwork. That's. how it's described on Reddit by people. who have epilepsy. You just feel part of. your body feel very strange. Your hand. tingles or you hear things that don't. exist. I wouldn't say it's auditory. hallucinations. I wouldn't say you're. hearing voices, but you're hearing. buzzing. the weird noises, frequency noises, and. sometimes you know it's happening, sometimes you don't know what it's. happening. You're just like, "Oh, that. was weird. Why did my body do that?". Then there are generalized seizures. They will also have subdistinctions, if.

you will. Absent seizures, it's like. your brain takes a tiny nap. You just. stop and stare for a few seconds, but. you likely won't shake or have body. tremors. You might not even know it just. happened. You just take a mini nap with your eyes. open. Then there's simple partial seizures. This seizure only affects a specific. portion of the brain. For example, it. will cause your hands to shake. uncontrollably, but the patient does not. lose full consciousness. The whole body. is not convulsing either, but it's.

you definitely don't feel there. Some. people describe it as similar to being. on drugs. That's what it feels like. You. can't control your body. Your memory. feels a little bit weird. Everything. feels a little bit wonky. Some people. describe it as after those types of. seizures, it just feels like deja vu. It's weird. It's just weird. I don't. know what happened. It's weird. I don't. feel comfortable. Then you have complex partial seizures. This is where some body shaking happens, but also a partial loss of. consciousness. Meaning you're likely not.

going to remember what you're doing, but. you're not going to be knocked out on. the ground. Mhm, okay. People describe it as patients looking. incredibly dazed or confused or having a. blank stare that lasts for a minute or. two. They're there, they're conscious. technically, kind of, but they're not. really. Most of the time they don't. remember anything that happened during. that period. With this type of seizure, patients could potentially still walk. around and perform very simple tasks, almost on autopilot. I'm talking very.

simply, but almost repetitive movements. Smacking lips, chewing, swallowing, picking up objects seems to be something. people do. Getting undressed, picking. out clothes like they're removing lint, or mumbling, or occasionally people will. get up and move around, go up and down. the stairs, or perform very routine. stuff like moving objects, moving items. around. But you can't sit down and start. typing on Instagram. You can't like type. out an email. Mhm. It's just very motor. Yeah. oriented, muscle memory type of. movements. The best way some people have.

described it is kind of like. sleepwalking. You're not going to. respond to emails while you're. sleepwalking most of the time, but you. might do muscle memory things like pour. a coffee. They are typically not aware of their. movements once the seizure passes. They. have no idea what they just did. Wow. So they could have been walking up and. down the stairs, taking off their. clothes, and then when they come to, they're like, "I don't know why I'm. naked upstairs in the bedroom. I don't. know how I got up here. Last I remember, I was on the couch.". Then you have the grand mal, the tonic. clonic seizures. This is usually a total. loss of consciousness. This is I think.

what most people picture if they've. never witnessed or had a seizure. The. patient will quote collapse, stiffen, jerk, and they might bite their tongue, foam at the mouth, and empty their. bladder. This type of seizure typically. lasts 1 to 2 minutes, but because of how. intense and traumatic they are for. anyone to witness, people will typically. overstate the length of this type of. seizure. Which is what Kayang's family does. They. say lasts about 5 minutes, but that's. very normal. Now, each patient with. epilepsy can have more than one type of. seizure.

So, it's not limited to oh, each. condition requires just one type of. seizure. You could have two or three. And you never know which one is coming. next. It's not like in a pattern, but it. doesn't really change over time. So, within 3 years, you typically don't. get a new type of seizure. Meaning each patient tends to have the. same seizures over and over and over. again. We got back from our trip in South. Korea, and my husband did one of the.

most surprising things. He was actually. able to speak a lot of Korean. I'm. talking conversational, understandable. Korean, and there was barely even an. accent when he was talking. And I do. have to thank Rosetta Stone for that. Because the moment that I found out that. we were going, I told him he needed to. study every day, every hour, every. minute, because I just didn't want him. to get lost in the city without me and. be unable to find his way back, even. though he only started days before our. trip to get back into the flow of really. going into the Korean lessons. I have to.

say that I was really impressed of how. he did. But he said Rosetta Stone made. it very easy for him, which makes sense. because Rosetta Stone is the most. trusted language learning program for 30. years with millions of users and 25. languages offered. My husband really. liked that Rosetta Stone forced him to. immerse into the language, meaning it. doesn't give him any English. translations. So, he could learn to. speak, listen, and think in Korean. It. teaches you the language how you would. naturally learn. Meaning you learn. words, phrases, and then sentences. This.

is not one of those apps where you just. learn a few words a day and then forget. about it. Rosetta Stone is built for. long-term retention. It even comes with. this built-in true accent feature, meaning it's going to give you feedback. on your pronunciation. It's almost like. having a personal trainer for your. accent. You can train anywhere with. Rosetta Stone because it's built for the. desktop or it has an app. It has an. audio companion and you even have the. ability to download lessons offline. Rosetta Stone has Korean, Japanese, Chinese, and so many more languages for.

you to learn from. You can literally get. a lifetime membership for all 25. languages, meaning you literally get. access to all 25 language courses for. 50% off. No matter where you plan to go. or what trip you want to take, Rosetta. Stone can help you learn the language. Don't put off learning that language. There's no better time than right now to. get started for a very limited time, Rotten Mango listeners can get Rosetta. Stone's lifetime membership for 50% off. Visit rosettastone.com/rotten. That's 50% off unlimited access to 25. language courses for the rest of your.

life. Redeem your 50% off at. rosettastone.com/rotten. today. Kai Yang and her family state that she. had a few different types of seizures. In almost all of them, she has no. recollection, no memory of what happened. during her seizure. She could be. standing, sitting, doesn't matter. The. first thing she'll notice is her hands. start to curl up. Her body or certain. parts of her body start to shake very. slowly. Then, she only knows what people. tell her because around this point, she.

blacks out. Her eyes will roll to the back of her. head. She makes these intense, painful. groaning and moaning noises and within a. few minutes, she'll finally come to and. realize she's on the floor or she's. passed out on the couch. The only. indication that she has that she. suffered a seizure. are she had bitten down on her tongue so. hard she can now taste blood or her. tongue is so swollen she can barely talk. or other times she loses control over. her bladder and she'll wake up in a. giant wet puddle. Her head will also. start throbbing like it's going to. explode and her body feels so sore. The.

way she describes it, it feels like she. climbed up a massive tree in the. backyard and then just let go, just fell. from the top of the tree. She's out for typically 2 minutes, but. most of the people who have witnessed Ka. Yang's seizure say, "Yeah, there's no. way that she could really do much during. them. She definitely can't work on her. computer or drive right after. It's just. not possible." They argue she doesn't. walk around or do anything after the. seizure. Typically, whoever's around. will try to get her to sit down or lay. down. It's very clear that she feels.

very dazed and very low energy. Because. after a seizure, there's what they call. the haze phase by people who have. epilepsy. It's called the postictal. period, but it's you're not really there. right now. It takes about 30 minutes. sometimes for someone to reboot their. brain, essentially. They might not even. remember most of the hazy phase. Mhm. Some people say they don't remember like. an hour during the seizure. The seizure. and then the hazy phase. They're like, "I don't remember any of.

that.". Mhm. But, they are. like doing things? Like they're still. Hazy phase, you're usually conscious. Ah. You're usually conscious, but I guess. your brain is not. Mhm. know if it's something with the. hippocampus and you're not forming these. memories actively. so not like fully. Yes. So, a lot of people who even have. the grand mal seizures, the tonic. clonics, where they're completely. unconscious, even when they awake, there's maybe 10 to 20 minutes where. they don't remember anything. Even. though they're awake.

I see. And everyone is like, "Are you okay?". They don't remember any of that. Mhm. And then 20 minutes later, they're like, "Wait, what just happened? I don't". And they're like, "We told you for the. past 20 minutes you had a seizure.". Wow. They say it takes Ka about 3 to 4 hours. just to recover to the point where she. quote regains her senses. Which this. part is interesting because nobody saw. Ka in that state that day. Even before the authorities are called, Va, the brother-in-law, gets home. He. notices Ka Yang and her mom hovered over. the baby freaking out. He was gone for.

literally 15 minutes. He had walked out. to pick up the sons, saw his. sister-in-law on the computer working, walked out, and when he walked back in, all hell had broken loose. Va was the. one that called the police, but he did. notice something that. just wasn't clicking. His sister-in-law, Ka, was acting a bit different compared. to all the other times he's ever seen. her have a seizure. She was even able to. listen to 911 operator's instructions on. how to give CPR. She performed. mouth-to-mouth while Va did the chest. compressions. Again, just not what he. usually saw when she had a seizure.

She's standing, she's alert, she's. making eye contact, and seems fairly. calm, not at all dazed. He can't even. really recall if she seemed disoriented. or not, but he knew that she was. responding and answering to his. questions in those moments. Nothing. suggested to Va that his sister-in-law. just had a seizure. But you could argue that sure, normally. she's dazed, but right now is not the. time because normally when she comes out. of a seizure, her kids are safe. But. adrenaline might take over in that. state. She could be acting abnormally.

because this is an abnormal situation. that she's in. So each side has pretty. good arguments. I wouldn't be able to say which one is. more valid. If you guys have epilepsy or. have ever dealt with seizures, I think. it would be more enlightening to read. your comments about it. I don't know if. Va himself is skeptical because he does. go on to state that Ka Yang is a loving. mother who would never harm her children. on purpose, but that's just what he. tells authorities he observed that day. It was not aligned with how he remembers. Ka to behave after seizures. Authorities, however, don't have the.

same sympathy as Va do. They are very, very skeptical about all of this. The. first responders that arrived at the. scene minutes after 911 was called, they. stated from their very limited. observations of Ka Yang, nothing. suggested to them that they that she had. suffered a seizure recently. Other than her telling them that she. did. One officer said Ka Yang kept. repeating she had a seizure and didn't. know what happened, but they noted she. was alert, standing, making eye contact. She did not appear to be confused or.

disoriented. One of the officers that. spoke with Kayang right after Mirabelle. was pronounced dead states that she. actually appeared, quote, fairly calm. She did not appear to be in a weakened. state or in a physically exhausted. state. But that could be due to shock. That's what the officer says. It could. be due to shock. Now, they all note that. they did not smell urine, but they also. didn't check her clothes for urine, and. it could be argued that fresh urine. isn't as smelly or as strong in scent, especially if they're in a house that. just had a baby be microwaved to death.

And just a lot of kids in general, that. smell might not have stood out to them. as, "Oh, she urinated on herself." But. what I think is more telling is they. never noticed any tongue injuries on. Kayang's tongue. But also, I don't know. if they even checked, and maybe she was. able to communicate better once the. police got there. That's one thing that a lot of netizens. are upset about. After Mirabelle was. pronounced dead, why wasn't Kayang given. medical attention? Because if she had. suffered a seizure, she needs medical. attention. And let's say she hadn't.

suffered a seizure, it would have been. so much easier for the prosecution to. show evidence there's no way she had a. seizure because she had been evaluated. by medical professionals right after. Mhm. But they didn't. The first responders. and the officers, they do admit they. breached protocol by not assessing her. medical condition at that point. Wow, okay. But eventually, it's been reported that. Kay even admitted to the authorities. that she could not have suffered a. seizure during that time because she. didn't fall down. You say she admitted that? Yes, but there's questions about all of.

this. She admits it, but keep in mind. there's two ways to take this. Some. people think, "Whoa, she just admitted. consciously to knowing that she did not. have a seizure. She just admitted it.". But what the defense argues is she's. clearly disoriented when she's. responding to some of the questions. She never received medical attention, and she's saying whatever the. authorities want her to say. She seemed. like she was in a slightly confused. state of. I guess what they're arguing is likely.

what she responded was, "Well, yeah, typically I do collapse, so I guess that. doesn't make sense either. All of this. is confusing." is more so what they're. trying to say she was implying. The. authorities do admit that near the end. of questioning, Ka did appear confused. So, in the beginning when they get. there, she seems pretty clear, and then. she starts slowly getting very. disoriented, and she straight-up tells. them, "It It's just that after my. seizure, my brain keeps hurting for a. couple hours before it gets back to. normal.". The defense argued, "See, this is her.

just saying whatever the police are. suggesting because she's clearly. confused, which might explain what comes. next." The next version of events, according to Ka Yang, is that no, she. did not have a seizure, but she does. have DID. This is from the defense team? No, this is from Ka Yang before she, I. guess, a attorney'd up. Wow. She states that she has a quote split. personality and maybe an alter did this. because she has no recollection of any. of these events. This part has been.

argued both ways by people. One group of. people who believe she's doing. everything she can just to find anything. that sticks. Maybe this way she can try. and get an insanity plea. Another group. of people who believe this girl is so. desperate to make sense of what's going. on and what happened that she's offering. up any solution and explanation because. wouldn't it be in her best interest to. not say all of this? Mhm. To just keep going with the seizure, but. she Some people see it as she's so. frantic, she's so confused, she's like, "Maybe it was this, I don't know. Maybe.

it was this, I don't know. Maybe it was. this, nothing's making sense. I don't. know, maybe it's all of these things.". She seems, they think, she seems like. she's coming from a place of trying to. make sense of what happened. Regardless. of which side you're on so far, it is up. to the jury to decide what's going to. happen to Ka Yang. The defense's. argument goes as follows. That day, Ka. Yang was holding Mirabelle at her desk. while working. All of a sudden, her head. starts throbbing, the ache in her body. becomes unbearable, her tongue feels. swollen, and then nothing. She doesn't. remember anything from that point.

forward. She had a seizure. Ka Yang. says, "I never thought that with my. seizures I would lose my little girl.". So, the defense is saying, "Forget the. DID, forget the spirits. What happened. is she had a seizure and she microwaved. her baby." So, they're dropping the. space heater, they're dropping the. spirits, they're dropping everything, and the defense is saying, "She had a. seizure and she microwaved her baby.". She had a seizure and then in a very. unconscious or. semi-conscious. state, she did this action.

Yes. Mhm. She didn't know what she was doing, but. she microwaved her baby. She did do the. actions, she just didn't know she was. doing that because she had a seizure. Ka. Yang stated, "I never thought that with. my seizures I would lose my little. girl." She states she never had any sort. of fear of even dropping her kids if she. was holding them when a seizure came on. She claims she does not remember what. happened during the incident, just that. she was at her computer desk and {quote}. "When I got up, my little girl was not. breathing." They also argued that Ka.

Yang has two types of seizures. Yes, the. one where she goes completely. unconscious and she falls to the ground. convulsing, but also she has another. one. And people who know her have. reported, "Yes, I've seen these types. where they call it a {quote} fast. seizure." That's what her friends and. family call it. She could be sitting on. the couch, she's not passed out, her. body doesn't shake too much, but when. she comes to, she doesn't remember a. single thing that happened. Her eyes are. open, she just looks very dazed. She. looks like she's very out of it. Mhm. And if you're talking to her, you want. to be like, "Hello? Are you there? What.

happened? Did you just hear me?" And she. does not remember. The defense's main argument is that. either she had one of those seizures. where she could still be moving around. and she could be doing things in an. automatic way, or she had a clonic-tonic. where she did fall to the ground, fall. unconscious, but she awoke in a hazy. period, and in that hazy period, she. microwaved her baby. So, they're saying because nobody. assessed her medically, we don't know. which one, but it seems like either way,

it's completely a result of her seizure. That's what they're arguing. But at the same time, the expert that. testified on behalf of the defense, the. doctor, he does admit it is an alarming. number of buttons that needed to be. pressed on the microwave to make it run. for 5 minutes. He said, "It would indeed. be remarkably rare for a mother to put. her baby in the oven and turn it on. It. would be like two comets colliding.". So, her having a seizure, then her. placing the baby in the microwave.

Wow. He states, quote, "Just absolutely. incredible in terms of the odds of it. happening." They do admit that it would, yeah, just be very odd for a woman to. put her baby in the microwave in that. state. But it wouldn't be the most rare. thing for a person with a partial. complex seizure to operate a microwave. But the defense attorney points out, "Well, listen to the testimonies of. people who have witnessed Kai Yang. having these seizures. They all state. that afterwards, they need to help her. lay down or make her sit down, indicating that Kai would try to get up. as an automatic response. It seems like. she tries to move around quickly after.

seizures. If nobody is there to persuade. her not to, what would she do?". They also point out the fact that Kai. Yang has never tried to hurt anyone. during the time that she's had close to. 100 seizures. So, their argument being, it's not like she just had a seizure and. is suddenly inclined to become violent. There's some netizen arguments that I. don't think were brought into court. Not. that I think netizen arguments should be. brought into court, like, "Hey, did you. guys know a netizen said?" But they. don't even argue the concepts that the. netizens are arguing. I'm sure they have.

their own reasons, but a lot of netizens. wonder if setting the microwave for 5. minutes is a very normal thing for Kai. to do repeatedly. Is that something like. muscle memory? Does she have a dish that. she cooks every day that requires 5. minutes in the microwave? Does she. defrost meat by just putting it in the. microwave for 5 minutes? Perhaps she was. trying to warm up some baby milk, and. she believed she was putting water into. the microwave for a few seconds, but it. ended up being 5 minutes, which is a. very long time to heat water, but that. could explain a bit more. But there's.

been no statements made of how she. warmed up bottles or what she ate or how. she used the microwave on a daily basis. But that I think could explain if she. was doing something as a muscle memory. The defense mainly just argues Ka has no. history of child abuse. She has no. criminal record. She wasn't in a bad. mood that day. She actually had so much. help. Her brother-in-law was picking up. the kids from school. Her mom is right. outside. If she ever felt overwhelmed by. Mirabelle, why would she just not reach. out to them? By all accounts, Ka was a.

loving mom. That's their argument. That. there is nothing to indicate that she. had anything but maternal feelings. towards all of her children, including. 2-month-old Mirabelle. A family. spokesperson said, "She didn't know what. she was doing. She's a gentle, nice. woman. She would never intentionally. harm her child. Her mind was out of. reality.". Her lawyer argues, "She suffers from. epilepsy. She had an epileptic seizure. It was not deliberate conduct." The. defense team argues that it appears to. be intentional conduct because the.

nature of the seizures, but quote, "But. the truth is her actions are sort of. automatic. It's robotic. It's not the. product of careful and rational thought. Because also, if she wanted to kill her. kid, would she do it when there's so. much going on? When she knows that the. brother-in-law is about to walk in. through the front door in a few seconds? Her mom is out in the backyard? Is this. really the timing?" They also argued. that technically Ka Yang does not fit. the stereotype of the overworked, overwhelmed mom. They argue because she. has epilepsy, her siblings would come to. live with her in the past to help out,

including her husband's siblings, which. is why Va is staying there. And since Ka. Yang didn't like to drive, it's too. dangerous, they would drive the kids to. school. Mhm. And to show you how serious her seizures. are, the defense brings up that just a. week before Mirabelle's death, Kaying. woke up in the hospital very confused, very disoriented with no recollection of. what just happened. She didn't know what. was going on. She didn't know why she. was in the hospital. In fact, most of. the times after seizures, she really is. confused why there's paramedics. She doesn't even recognize that they're.

here for her. They state that she had been driving and. suffered from a seizure. The only thing. she stated she remembered was. remembering the feeling of seeing. someone right in front of her. Now, I. don't believe that there was someone. right in front of her, or perhaps they. moved out the way because I couldn't. find any additional information on this. incident. I imagine if she hit a. pedestrian or somebody else was involved. in the collision, it would have been. referenced a lot more in the court docs. But, it is interesting that she stated. she saw someone before that seizure as. well. So, keep that in mind. But, the. main focus here is she was confused. She.

woke up in the hospital with no memory. This is something that happens because. of her seizures. The defense argues that the entire time. since the authorities showed up to the. house, nobody would listen to her. She. told them repeatedly she suffered from a. seizure. Nobody believed her. Nobody got. her medical attention, which is exactly. what they did about her pregnancy. What? Three months after the death of. Mirabelle, Kaying was arrested and she. was pregnant at the time of her arrest. The defense claims, just like the.

epilepsy issue, when Kaying was. arrested, when she was in jail, she. repeatedly stated that she's pregnant, but they took over a week to get the. pregnancy test done and confirm that. yes, indeed, she is pregnant and. requires special attention. The prosecution argues all the opposite. points. They rely on the fact that. nobody believes that Kaying suffered a. seizure that day, at least no one on the. prosecutor's side. They think that she's. using her epilepsy as an excuse. They. argue her seizures are so severe that. she wouldn't even be able to use a. microwave. The point about Kaying not.

liking to drive, that's another. indicator. The prosecution feels like. that shows she's incapable of doing much. when she's suffering from a seizure. It's stated that Kyla's seizures would. be so bad, like I said, she'd be so. confused when paramedics show up and she. has no recollection. So, how is she so. alert and aware when the authorities. show up? In addition to that, one thing. that stands out to investigators is Kyla. shows almost no emotion during the. investigation the day of Mirabelle's. death. They say it's just odd behavior. Sure, you could have had a seizure, but.

too disoriented from answering most of. the questions in a way that's coherent, but your emotions feel very cold. She. seems calm. The officer questioning her. does state, "Yeah, it could be shock.". But the prosecutors do note it. The. prosecution do hire a neurologist, Dr. David. He has a specialty in epilepsy. and they just want him to testify at. first. Now, when he first goes over all. the case files, he writes that he does. not think that the prosecution should. prosecute for murder. He wrote that. there is enough possibility, probability.

really, that Kyla may have suffered from. a seizure. But once he's given a more. accurate, quote, precise timeline, he. changes his mind. He said, "Yeah, no, this does not make sense because there's. only an 11-minute time span that all of. this takes place.". At 1:58 p.m., Kyla was using her. computer for work, something that she. would not be able to do during her. seizure even in the hazy phase after the. seizure. So, that means she had her. seizure right after because her. brother-in-law leaves around that time. Yeah.

Then she wakes up from the seizure, places her baby in the microwave, performs a semi-complex action of. pushing at least three buttons to start. the microwave, then took the baby out, brought the baby to her mother while. appearing to be panicked yet mostly. coherent by 2:10 p.m. Mhm. So, he's saying even if she did this in. her hazy period, the hazy period should. last longer than this. Right. Right, right, right. I see. He said it does not make sense. He. states that after each seizure there is.

a postictal hazy period which lasts. anywhere between 10 to 20, maybe even 30. minutes, where it's just very uncommon. for people to perform complex actions. such as use a microwave, operate a. computer, but even if they do do that, it would be very difficult for her to. snap out of it and now answer these. questions very coherently. Tell her. brother-in-law what happened, call the. police, perform mouth-to-mouth. Right. But then again, how many instances are. there where mothers have to snap out of. it because the adrenaline of their kid.

potentially dying? Mhm. So it's just kind of a bit of a. confusing situation. Now, after. reviewing the precise timeline where. this all takes place within 11 minutes, Dr. David decides to testify for the. prosecution. Another reason that Dr. David probably testified is the exact. microwave that was used in their house. It's suggested by the microwave expert, judging from Mirabelle's burns, that she. was in there for 5 minutes. They're. trying to figure out how many. keystrokes, how many buttons does it get. to for 5 to have the microwave run for. that long. Yeah.

They try all sorts of methods and the. most obvious is pressing 5 0 0 and then. start. So four buttons. If you press. just start, nothing happens. If you. press 5 and start, you get 5 seconds. If. you do 5 0 and start, you get 50. seconds. There is an add a minute button. which you would have to press five times. to get to 5 minutes. The quickest way. they state that you can get to 5 minutes. is three button presses. Baked potato, baked potato, start. Mhm. They're saying every single press. is a lot for someone who's in that.

stage. Right? it's very it's very complex. Mhm. actions they're describing it. Now, I'm. curious as to which make and model the. microwave is because I wonder some. microwaves you can do a long press on a. number and instead of seconds they do. minutes. Yeah, I'm sure they've. That's what I'm saying. Yeah, I feel. like they must have but or some. microwaves have presets, but I didn't. see mentions of any of that from the. defense, which I feel like they Well, actually, I don't know if they would. have brought up. I also imagine the baby will be crying.

I was thinking that, too. Right? For minutes. Well, yeah. Even. Now, the prosecution believes that if. it's not a seizure, which they don't. believe her to be in a seizure at that. point, then it must be postpartum. depression and perhaps psychosis. Mirabelle was born just 2 months ago, and statistically speaking, postpartum. is most commonly observed within the. first 3 months after childbirth. They argued that, sure, there's no. rulebook on who's more likely to get.

postpartum, but there are some things to. look out for, and it could be reasonable. that Kayang had postpartum. That's what. they're arguing. Their belief is that. Kay was frustrated that day with. Mirabelle. She's postpartum, she's on. the verge of snapping, she's potentially. having a bit of psychosis, she's seeing. spirits and demons outside the window. No, a Caucasian demon, and that. particular day, they argue Mirabelle was. more fussy than normal. This is the. morning schedule. I mean, think about. how overwhelming this is while you're. dealing with all these.

complex hormonal changes of postpartum, but also potentially seeing spirits. The. morning starts at 5:00 a.m. Kayang has. to go online to work by 6:00 a.m. They. got to get Mirabelle out of bed at 7:00. a.m., change her diaper because she's. crying. Then you glance over at one. point and you see that the three sons. are awake and playing video games before. school. She states that she has to scold. the kids to put down the games and go. get ready for school. The boys don't. listen to her. Instead, one of them. sneaks over to play with Mirabelle on. the ground, and then now she's. screaming, "Hey, be gentle with her, please. Like, don't be so rough. Take a. shower." She's got to go back to work on.

her computer, and while she's glancing. around, she's walking around picking up. after the boys. She walks into the. bathroom and sees that one of her sons. has spilled water out of the tub while. getting ready, and he's still not. listening. He's back to playing with. Mirabelle and not getting ready for. school. She grabs Mirabelle from her. son, puts her in the bouncy chair, has. to get started on breakfast. She's. checking her computer periodically. because she can't get a good session in. with work since Mirabelle keeps crying. She wants to eat, which means she has to. now get the bottle ready, then the. pacifier. While the brother-in-law is. helping out here and there, Ka's mom is.

over in the back, but she's mainly. outside. But still, the prosecutors. argue it's totally normal for a mom with. postpartum and potentially psychosis to. feel overwhelmed and frustrated in this. state, in this environment. And maybe. that triggered something. She's. overstressed, overstimulated, constantly. running after her kids, and they believe. in this moment she killed her child. She. would not have been the first mother to. have done that, nor will she be the last. till we start taking postpartum. seriously. The prosecution brings up privileged. medical files to prove their point,

which does become a bit of an issue. later. But August 2011, a few months. after Mirabelle's death, Ka does admit. to a doctor, quote, "There were voices. talking in her head, and she would try. to cope with them by pushing them out. and not paying attention to them." She. said sometimes it was successful, other. times it felt like someone kept coming. up behind her. She stated to her doctor that she told. her husband and priest about this, and. they said that she was only in her head. about it and just not to pay it. attention. She said after Mirabelle's. birth, she wasn't eating much. She had.

an increase in, quote, "auditory. hallucinations" is how the doctor. describes it, as well as an increase in. seizures, but she didn't align with. postpartum depression. She said after her daughter's death, the. seizures and hallucinations decreased, but she felt more depressed. She said. she didn't tell anyone about the. auditory hallucinations because she was. scared everyone would label her as. crazy. more depressed? Yes, so she's saying before she killed. Mirabelle, she was having more seizures. She was hearing stuff, but she didn't. feel depressed.

Right. After Mirabelle's death, she's having. less seizures, she's not hearing much, but she feels very depressed. Mhm. She doesn't really describe in depth. what the auditory hallucinations were. saying, but on one occasion she does. state that she heard a voice telling. her, "Hey, I'm back.". But that's it. What? No other quote interactions, if you. will. Another thing that the investigators. point out is the fact that Ka Yang. stated in the initial interview, the day. of the incident, she went out back to. the back of the house to look for her. mom because she was panicked. They.

thought it was strange that she didn't. look for Va, who would likely already be. in the house and be very alert and ready. to assist unless she was conscious. enough to see him leave. But Ka Yang's. mom would argue that she never actually. came to the back. She went into the. kitchen and Ka Yang's mom was the one. that opened the back door to get inside. They argue actually the fact that Ka. Yang states that she went out back. looking for her mom is another show that. she has no idea what she's saying. She's. not in her right mind. Personally, I. think both sides have their little. arguments of everything else, but this.

argument seems. a bit moot point. I feel like if. something were to be wrong with a little. 2-month-old baby, I would look for my. mom rather than my brother-in-law. Mhm. But this becomes a huge point of. contention for both parties for some odd. reason. In the end, the prosecution. argued that the jury should find Ka Yang. guilty as she cooked her baby on high. heat like a piece of meat. There are a few theories with this case. because. this case is weird. There doesn't seem. to be malicious intent. It does not.

appear to be that this is a clean-cut. case of overwhelmed mom postpartum. She's upset she's shaking her baby cuz. she's so frustrated. There doesn't seem. to be signs of that. So it's just. confusing what actually happened. So. people have come up with a few theories. The first theory being that Ka Yang is. telling the truth and she did suffer a. seizure and likely does not remember. what happened afterwards. That's why her. story keeps changing. She was able not. to be so dazed and confused when she. came to because her daughter's life is. on the line and people state that you.

just cannot underestimate a mother's. adrenaline rush when she notices and. feels that her daughter is about to die. Those who think that she did not do this. on purpose point to a few things that. don't make sense. Cayden was scolding. her son earlier for playing so roughly. with Mirabel. Why would she do that if. she's so overwhelmed and stressed and. doesn't care for her kids? She just cared about getting work done. on her computer. Would she even notice. and would she even scold her son for. that? And why not just hand the baby. over to your family members that are. inside the house if you're that. overwhelmed? There's also a lot of.

evidence that people have done very. strange things while suffering from a. seizure. Some netizens online have. spoken about their seizures and they. said, "I usually lose about 10 to 20. minutes. I record my focals when I can. because I have this very deja vu feeling. that comes over and I need to remember. recording, but I will have zero memory. of all of this and no memory of the 10. and 20 minutes that I'm responsive after. the seizure. People could be asking me. questions, I don't remember." Another. one states, "I never remember much of.

anything. This last Sunday I had eight. seizures and the entire day complete. blank to me.". One citizen states, "I've been told I. made scrambled eggs during my seizure.". Yeah, and then I also messed up my knee. Another citizen states, "My mom found me. trying to climb into our cutlery drawer. and the next day we found all the. cutlery behind our sofa. So, I must have. put the cutlery there to make room for. myself in the drawer.". Wow, so a lot can happen. Yes, and it doesn't seem coherent.

either. Cuz I'm assuming this person would not. do this when they're not suffering from. a seizure. like try to climb into a drawer. Like. that doesn't make like sense with the. functioning conscious. It's It feels very abnormal. You might. not just do muscle memory things is what. some of these anecdotal pieces of. evidence show. Now, another person. states, "I once had a seizure at home. and broke a plate and then when I was. still extremely loopy, I hid the pieces. of a plate in a box in my room because I. didn't want to get in trouble with my. mom.".

So, during her seizure she's conscious. enough to to hide these things. And she says, "I live alone.". "I was in the shower. My boyfriend had. called the paramedics. I'm standing. there naked with the shower off after a. full-blown seizure. They're trying to. hand me clothes to help me get dressed. And what do I do? I kept trying to be. helpful. So, I was repeatedly folding. the clothes and handing them back to the. paramedics. I, of course, recalled none of that. But, my boyfriend said they were like. three ambulances worth of paramedics in.

our living room. And they had to keep. swapping out of who was trying to get me. dressed because they were laughing so. hard. And I just kept doing it.". Wow. A lot of people with epilepsy seem to. agree that you can do very strange. things during a seizure. I don't know. I. think that's why this case it's very. hard for me to have an opinion. I I. mean, I try not to have an opinion on. most cases. But, for this one entirely. because I've never had a seizure. It sounds at first glance, if I know. nothing about seizures, it sounds. incredible. It sounds I don't believe. it. But, then once I started reading.

about it, I'm like, "Wow, okay. It weird. stuff does happen.". Mhm. So, it seems that most people with. epilepsy do agree that strange things. can happen during a seizure. But, the. prosecutors do not believe it to be. possible. Then there's the more unhinged. theory where they've taken out. the seizures and replaced it with, I. guess, the spirits and demons. So, Dr. Resnick, the psychiatrist that's. testifying for the defense, he stated, "It doesn't make sense for Ka Yang to. kill her child. There's only a few.

reasons why a mother would kill her. child." According to his research, he. believes each reason can be somewhat. categorized into five. One, an unwanted. child. Two, revenge against their. spouse. Three, overzealous discipline. Four, psychosis and/or similar mental. affliction. And five, altruism. So, the. defense has been arguing that psychosis. is the motive, which she's not exactly. in a state of psychosis, but stating. that she was in a state of confusion and.

delirium after her seizure. So, she. harmed her child without noticing. But, one citizen on a Chinese forum actually. commented something that a few people. found very fascinating. The fifth. motive, altruism. The idea that a mother. is saving her child from a fate worse. than death. That's what that category. symbolizes. The citizen theorizes that maybe it's a. combination of everything. Again, this. is just a theory. I do think it's one of. the more unhinged theories, but they. argue, "What if it's a little bit of. everything? The lingering cultural. belief that she maybe doesn't.

particularly believe in, but is always. around her?" That a seizure is her. spirit leaving her body. Maybe there's a. bit of undiagnosed postpartum there and. Kayang's own complicated feelings. towards her seizures and epilepsy. They. theorize that perhaps the mentioning of. Mirabelle's eyes moving back and forth, maybe caught in that very strange mental. state believe that Mirabelle was seeing. a spirit. And if that's the case, all of. the other verbage that she might have. been surrounded by with seizures being.

connected to spirits, she thought her. daughter was going to have seizures. later in life. Cuz seizures are also genetic. Mhm. And having lived with the past 15 years. with seizures and living the. complexities of that, this citizen. theorizes it could have been possible. that Kayang wanted to save her daughter. from that fate. Kayang did mention to authorities that. she had thoughts of self-exiting when. she was younger because of her seizures. But, she knows she cannot even entertain. those thoughts because her children need. her. The citizen argues this theory also.

confirms the fact that Kayang has been. nothing but a great mother to her kids. up until this point. Not that what she. did is right, but it may align more or. less with her wanting to protect her. kids in some sense. Wow. Yeah, I think they point out the fact. that it's just her talking about. Mirabelle's eyes and even noticing that. and bringing it up. Seems like she put some focus into it. because I'm sure so much happened that. day, but her to keep that focus on the. eyes moving back and forth seems a bit.

strange. Right. But it is a wild theory. Then lastly, you have the theory that either Ka Yang. was suffering from postpartum, a. seizure, a combination of everything, and she killed her baby, and she should. be found guilty of murder. I which I. don't know enough about this case or. epilepsy or even really postpartum. psychosis to form an adequate opinion, but. I don't know if this theory makes as. much sense. when you really keep looking into it. Mainly because she could have reached. out to her mom that was outside. So.

unless it's confirmed she's having. hallucinations and was suffering from a. state of psychosis, I just can't wrap my. head around her just being frustrated. and overwhelmed and wanting her baby to. stop crying. There's no indication that Mirabelle was. being extra fussy that morning, and on. top of that, postpartum psychosis is a pretty, pretty. strong thing. People will notice it. Mhm. They say it's a very rare for people to. not have inklings of it. So unless all. her family is deciding to not say. anything at all, it just.

you might not identify it as postpartum. psychosis. You'll typically Yeah, you'll. be like, "Ooh, okay, something is going. on here. Something very strange is going on. here.". But in the end, Ka Yang was found guilty. of first-degree murder and assault on a. child resulting in death. She was. sentenced to 25 years to life. Ka Yang's. attorney stated after the verdict, "We're just very disappointed and. believe it was the wrong verdict. Justice was not served today. This is. such a tragedy. This child was a victim.

of Ms. Yang's epilepsy, of her disease. It was not deliberate conduct on behalf. of Ms. Yang.". In prison, Ka Yang has given birth to a. baby girl who is now under the care of. her father along with her three. brothers. While she's in prison, Ka Yang's sister. died from a seizure. while Ka Yang was in prison. So, it does. seem like, yeah. The family argued it's. very clear that both the daughters have. very, very serious conditions. The defense has appealed the verdict, and their main appeal is based on the.

fact that Mirabelle's pediatrician, so. the baby's doctor, testified during the. trial for the prosecution. I'm not. coming for the doctor. I don't think. it's the doctor's fault. I think if. anyone told me to testify or be on the. stand in regards to a baby dying, I. would do it. But, the prosecutors were. not technically legally right in the. fact that they asked her to testify. So, it's the prosecution's fault. The main. reason being, the same doctor that's on. the stand testifying for the. prosecution, talking about all the. symptoms of postpartum. is the same doctor that screened Ka Yang.

for postpartum depression, and. determined that she was negative. Okay. Sure, many of the tests are not. accurate, and moms are really great at. masking their pain and emotions because. that's what society makes them do. But, legally speaking, you can see how it's a. weird pickle to be in. Imagine if your. doctor screened you negative for. tapeworms, but is suddenly on the stand. talking about how tapeworms can impact. your decision-making, but you're like, you're the one that screened me negative. for tapeworms. So, how can you talk about it as if I. have tapeworms when you were the doctor.

that. Does that make sense? It's just weird. Yeah, yeah. Well, how did that happen? Like. I do think um Ka Yang's case is a. situation. where I don't know if her attorney was. the best. I don't know if her defense was the. best. I I feel like they could have. brought in way better experts to testify. for epilepsy and the weird behaviors. that can be conducted during a seizure, but. it just seems very messy. now it sounds like it's kind of. confusing on what exactly happened.

Yeah, and the defense team argued that. the prosecutor failed to provide. sufficient evidence that Ka Yang was. diagnosed or even exhibited symptoms of. postpartum psychosis. So, they keep. arguing about the postpartum, but then. they were they're proving that no, she. does not have. Therefore, she's. first-degree murder. Yes. So for example, no, that's okay. Basically, the prosecution is saying, we. think she had postpartum psychosis. Right. Because when you have postpartum.

psychosis, you could microwave your baby. because you're losing your mind, right? They bring in a doctor. The doctor. tested her negative for postpartum. But. continues to talk about how postpartum. psychosis could make a mother kill her. child. Uh-huh. Where it's like, wait, you just said. that you screened her negative for it. So how are you talking about it? Then. the prosecution keeps going and is like, see? She's got postpartum psychosis, thus she killed her child. But they. didn't provide enough evidence to. actually prove that she has that.

So it's almost like someone arguing that. if your blood type is B, you could kill. someone, but they don't even bring in evidence. that your blood type is B. Okay. Doesn't that make it. moot point then? Like, what are you. talking about? Exactly. That's the whole appeal. Oh, that Oh, that they're using that as. the appeal? Yes, the whole appeal is, look at what. the prosecutors did. That's absolutely. unhinged behavior. you guys. theory is completely flawed. Therefore, my.

uh client or Ka Yang is should deserve a. retrial or whatever it is, right? Yes. The defense also argued that the. verdict needs to be appealed because. again, there's truly no proof that she. had postpartum to the point of being in. a state of psychosis to kill her child, to microwave her child. It It's just I. mean, they keep arguing it's quite. dramatic. Their expert says postpartum. psychosis is really quite dramatic. It's. not something that goes unnoticed. Mhm. So there's no evidence, really? Then we. need a retrial. That's the basis of the.

prosecution's argument. And the prosecution was just making some. wild statements. And again, I say this. as someone who is fully confused on what. to believe at this point, which is. objectively speaking, they're wild for. some of these. The prosecution at one. point tries to push the statistic that. 41% of women with mental illness and. depression had thoughts of harming their. child. Where did you get that from? There is one study that showed those. results, but I find it I I wouldn't. consider it reliable. I mean, perhaps it.

is, but I imagine you would have to look. at the study's sample size, methodology, and peer-review status, but it sounds. problematic. just a crazy statement to to make. Yeah, it's It's just crazy, especially. when you factor in the fact that Ka Yang. has consistently denied being depressed. And the whole study is about depressed. mothers have thoughts of harming their. child. And she's like, "I have never. been depressed. And you screened me. negative for postpartum depression. So, like, how can you even use this.

statistic? Doesn't make sense. And I'm not saying that Ka Yang is okay. I think clearly something happened for. her to microwave her baby, whether that. be a seizure, whether that be psychosis, whether that be I don't know, right? But. there are just certain things that the. court has to do in order to ensure a. fair trial, and this just wasn't fair. Ultimately, the judgment has been. reversed. That does not mean that Ka. Yang is free. She's currently still in. prison to see if the prosecutors want to. try her again, if she's going to have a. retrial, or if they're just going to.

drop the charges. If you have epilepsy, I would really. love to know your thoughts because I. keep going back and forth with this. case, but the few things that I think. I'm pretty certain of, I don't think the defense did the best. job. I think I mean, even just looking online. at some of these doctors and some of. these people with diagnosed epilepsy. talk about their seizures, I'm like, this makes so much more sense than what. they were arguing in court. To me, this is so enlightening because. yes, now I'm confirming in my mind, I.

don't know if this is accurate, but I'm. confirming people can do things. The The. defense made it seem like you can do. automatic small movements like. swallowing and chewing. But I'm looking. online and people are folding clothes in. the shower. Right. I think that's one thing. I do think. that the prosecutors. I don't know if it's her background. being Mong. I don't know if it's her. socioeconomic status, but. I think that they just threw whatever. would stick. I don't think that they. really cared for a fair trial. To bring.

in the pediatrician like that, to really. make the whole spirits and possession. things as weird as they did. It It's. very confusing. Mhm. Yeah. So right now they're they're just. waiting. Yeah, they're just waiting to see what. happens. To see what the prosecutors. decide to do with her trial. Wow. What are your thoughts? I'd love to. know. I'd love to know if you're Mong. and just more context of seizures and. spirits and maybe you have a better. understanding of Oh, I think she was. actually just using it as verbage. Or. No, some people genuinely see and.

believe and Or if you have epilepsy, is. this something that can happen? I mean clearly something happened though. in those 11 minutes. What are your thoughts? Let me know in. the comments. Please be safe and I'll. see you in the next one.