I Sat Down With A Killer

[Music]. Bada bing, bada boop. >> There is a certain process of. elimination when you are at the scene of. a death. Some cases are obviously going. to be trickier than others. Some cases. the whole time the investigators are. debating first of all how like how did. this even happen? We don't know. And if. this is what truly happened, if our. theory is correct, are we sure that's. what really happened? That's what the. investigators are doing. But for. Detective Ryan, this case starts off.

really easy. Dead man in the living room. in his own house. He's dead in his. living room in his house in like a. secluded wooded area. He walks in. Was. it natural? That's the first question. Well, no, because there's droplets of. blood right at the entrance of the. house. It doesn't seem like it was. natural. Detective Ryan steps into the. house a little bit deeper now. Was it a. robbery gone wrong? The door shows no. signs of forced entry. He steps inside.

further and there are just streaks of. blood everywhere. One of the other. officers walks straight up to him and. just says, "Well, somebody tried to cut. this dude's head off. Murder. That's. what this is. We got the how. The cause. of death is murder with a hunting. knife." By the clues left behind in the. living room, I mean, nothing of value is. taken. All of the blood is concentrated. near the couch in this living room area. Whoever did this hunted the dead man.

It's like they hunted them and killed. him in his own living room. And it. wasn't quick either. Like there are. slash wounds all over this man's body. His throat is nearly slit. You can see. the bone on both sides. There's blood. all over the walls. There's blood. soaking into the carpets. This guy was. hunted. He was killed rather painfully, rather violently in his own living room. The first interesting detail that sticks. out to Officer Ryan is that there's this. bloody footprint that just feels so out.

of place. Obviously, there's going to be. lots of bloody footprints all over this. living room, but it's concentrated in. this specific living room area except. this one clear bloody footprint right in. front of the door to the primary. bedroom. It's almost like the killer, whoever this person is, walked over. there, put one foot just outside the. door, never stepped inside. What are. they doing? Detective Ryan steps inside. the master bedroom, and he starts. looking around, and that's when he sees.

it. He's like, "Did the killer slit that. man's throat, walk over to this bedroom. to spit on the bed?". Detective Ryan knows instantly that. whoever did this knows the dead man, targeted the dead man, hunted the dead. man, and left a giant trail of evidence. It's not long after that that Detective. Ryan is going to find the killer. And. he's got a lot of questions to ask this. killer. And so do we.

Can you take us to when we're in the car. after you kill Dennis? I was bleeding severely. I had a severe. wound. Speaking to my buddy in the passenger. seat, I was not even thinking about. getting away with it. I was thinking. about stopping the blood flow. >> Did you have a hole in your hand? >> I did. I put a knife right through it. Severed the ligaments and tendons. >> How long was the knife?

>> It was a hunting knife. So, they're. about. six inches long. 68 in. >> And that was also the murder weapon? >> Yes. >> Did you take the murder weapon with you. or did you leave it? >> Took it. >> And there was blood everywhere. Was it. coming from your hand or was it someone. else's blood? >> A mixture. >> Did you feel the need to get rid of the. blood? >> I had a glove on and the when I got back.

to my house, I could ring out the glove. It was just pouring out of me. Um, and. it was everywhere in our in my garage. Um, >> can you walk me through the hole in your. hand? >> See, it wasn't straight through the. hand. It was down this way and out this. way. So, it went. >> the whole length and you could see. pretty deep into the cuz it was wide. open at the time.

>> And you're just driving with one hand. I. had the glove on at the time, so I. couldn't see it until I got back and. standing in my garage pulled the glove. off and then I was like, >> "Oh boy, we got a we got a problem.". >> Did it hurt the hole in the hand? >> Yeah, but I was uh. I was full of adrenaline and cocaine. >> and alcohol. I wasn't fixated on the. pain. No, pain didn't bother me at the. time. The next morning, police are surrounding.

your house and you pour a glass of. Charda. Yeah. >> How many police officers are outside. trying to arrest you? >> 12 to 20. >> Are you scared? >> I'm thinking life is over. Your attorney describes it as horrific. crime scene photos after you left. Dennis's house. Have you seen those.

photos? >> I have. >> Did you feel anything when you saw it? >> Honestly, no. Dennis's obituary reads, "To those who. knew him well, he will be remembered as. a great man who always went above and. beyond the call of duty and one whose. love and loyalty for his friends was. unparalleled." Do you agree with that?

>> No, I do not agree with that. >> You provided to us your records like. your psychology records from when you. were in jail and then later prison. The. psychologist asked you, "Do you feel. relief after the homicide?" And you say, "I can't say that. Things were out of. control.". No relief. >> Yeah. I'm What happened in that night. was horrific in in his house was. horrific. And uh it wasn't anything to.

sit back and rejoice over. Um it was a. uh. bloody, gory, horrific event. Do you remember how many times you. stabbed him or do you only know from. what's been told? >> Only from what I've been told. >> Initially, when you were first arrested, I think there was questions of maybe.

there is an insanity plea, maybe there. are all these other things. And one. report reads, "The most outstanding. clinical feature was the absence of any. significant overt psychopathology." So, does that mean that some psychiatrists. were confused because you didn't strike. them as a psychopath or someone that. just kills out of nowhere? >> Right. They didn't find any, you know, anything psychologically wrong with me.

to do what I did. You killed Dennis Peg. >> I did. >> You stabbed him. >> I did. >> Reports say you slid his throat. >> Yes. >> You spit on his bed. >> Yes. >> And you drove off with a hole in your. hand. >> Correct. >> And then you were arrested and. psychiatrists say that they found. nothing wrong with you. >> Correct. And so technically you killed someone.

and you don't regret it. >> No. >> And everyone in town while you're in. jail waiting for a trial, a plea deal, waiting for whatever fate has in store, everyone in town has free Clark stickers. on their cars. People are writing. articles. People are selling bumper. stickers that say free Clark. They were everywhere instantly, like. with in less than a week's time.

>> Why did you kill Dennis Peg? >> Uh, the short answer is he was a. monster. >> What's the long answer? >> The long answer is he had a 45 year. reign of terror in our little town of. Stillwater, New Jersey, raping boys. >> Were you one of the boys? >> I was.

I was reading in your memoir, Scarred. You were born with a hole in your heart. >> I was just a defect in my in my heart. And uh the doctors monitored me for the. first six years of my life. And uh they. told my parents we were down to a. six-month window to operate to repair. it. And so you had the surgery and you. have a scar that you call a zipper. >> You know, with all the stitching it. looks just like a zipper.

>> I know in the beginning when you were a. kid, you were bothered by the scar. Is. that something you're still bothered by? >> No, I've I've I've come to make peace. with my scar. >> So, okay. What was your first impression. of Dennis? I know in your memoir you. talk about how he came over and he. offered you a dollar to touch your scar. cuz it was the thing that your parents. were doing to try and get you to be. proud of your scar was to show people. for quarters, >> right? You're going back uh you know to.

1971 to have open heart surgery as a. six-year-old child. Open heart surgery. today is still a risky uh endeavor. So. they were extremely proud of me for. surviving this. I was in Mount Sinai. Hospital in New York City for a month. straight and they were so proud. They. just wanted to show me off to their. friends and they thought a neat way to, you know, when you're a kid, you just. want to fit in with all the other kids. I had something now that made me stick.

out from everybody. So, they just. thought it would be a way to get me. comfortable with it by showing it to. their friends and collecting a quarter. Dennis Peg was a family friend. >> He was He was uh my brother's boy I had. a brother who was six years older than. me, Jay. >> Jay and he was uh uh my brother's boy. scout leader and uh we had a lot of land. where we lived in New Jersey and he. would hunt on our land with with my.

father and brother. I wasn't old enough. yet. And uh my parents owned a. restaurant back then and my father put. on big Sunday night meals and he would. come every Sunday and have dinner with. us and uh tell stories about he worked. at the county jail as a sheriff's. officer and he would tell stories about. that. >> Do you think that he targeted your. family to get close to you guys or do. you think he genuinely was just friendly. with your parents? targeted.

Um, predators have to win over one, they. have to win over their community so. nobody would ever suspect them. Two, they have to win over the family and. then and then last, they have to win. over the victim. >> Can you tell me about the moment that he. saw your scar? >> Uh, it was a it was a just a couple. months after I had the surgery. Everybody uh in my family was in our. backyard and I came inside to get a.

drink and watch cartoons for a minute. and Dennis came to the front door which. was right next to our den. and uh I heard his voice and I bound it. up. I loved Dennis, you know. I just. thought he was great. He always had his. gun on and a badge. And uh I let him in. and he asked where everybody was and I. told him everybody was out back and he. said, "Let's sit sit in the den for a. minute and then he said, you know, hey, I got a quarter. Can I see your scar?".

Didn't think anything of it. Lifted my. shirt, showed him, and he said, "I've. never seen a scar so raised up like. yours. I have kloid condition, so my. scar is pronounced." And he goes, "How. about I give you a dollar if you let me. touch it?". I couldn't possibly think of in my. little six-year-old mind of any ulterior. motives he would have. And I said, "Sure, then." And and he took his big. meaty fingers and he ran them up and. down my scar. And then he went below my.

scar line to like my belt line. And he. was just probing and saying, "Is your. stomach sore from the surgery?" And I'm. like, "No, not at all, Dan." He's like, "Okay." He's like, "This has to be our. little secret." He goes, "If if you tell. your parents that I gave you a dollar. for touching your scar, we can't be. buddies." I'm like, "I can keep a. secret.". >> So, when he's like probing and touching, did it just feel like, cuz you had just. gotten out of surgery, did it just feel. like another adult that's maybe making.

sure you're okay? Is that the feeling? >> Yeah. And I, like I said, I. there wasn't one thought in my mind that. he could have any other reason to touch. other than he cared about me and my. well-being. >> Throughout the book, you describe him as. having needy fingers. And I know a lot. of cases that we cover, a lot of victims. remember specific sensations or very.

specific scents even. Is that something. that you like remember distinctly as. meaty fingers? Like. >> Yeah. Um he was a big hulking guy and I. was a little tiny kid back then. Um when. I say hulking, he was probably 265 lbs. and just one of those big beefy guys. Him touching my scar stands out so. pronounced in my mind. And the.

visualization of his big meaty fingers. is like ingrained in my memory. I wish I. could scrape it off and remove it, but I. can't. It's like ingrained in there. >> I'm assuming that's a worse memory than. the actual open heart surgery. >> Yeah. Um it's uh he like ruined my open. heart surgery. ruined my scar. I hated. my scar because what would happen later. on and he uh he's the reason for for me.

hating the way I looked. >> Did he have any sort of fascination with. your scar or is was it truly 100% just. an excuse to start grooming you? >> Yeah, I don't think he had any f things. with a predator, they're never the way. they seem. A predator is a chess master. always multiple steps ahead of you. So. like everything. may seem one way but to them it's. complete other way. And I don't think he.

cared two hoots about my scar. It was. just an avenue to get what he ultim. ultimately wanted. >> You guys would go fishing. There would. be a lake. You and a bunch of boys would. go fishing. Dennis Peg would constantly. be there. And there was an issue with. the sunfish, like these little fish in. the lake that don't taste good, but. they're not edible fish. >> Yeah. I mean, they're tiny. So, you you. to filt a sunfish, you'd have to fillet.

a lot of them to get any meat off of. their. >> So, it's mainly sunfish. >> Right down by the dam. There'd be a lot. of sunfish. And they're they're a really. like gullible fish where you don't even. need to put a worm on a hook. You could. just put your hook in the water and they. see the bright shimmering and they just. latch on to it and you know you catch. them and you just release them. >> Or so we thought. >> He does not catch and release them. What. did he do? >> No. No. And again,

for me to say he didn't like Sunfish is. is wrong cuz he's a chess master. Remember, he's a predator and he's one. step ahead of us. Two steps, three steps. ahead of us. He would tell us little boys that. sunfish were a worthless fish and that. they needed to be killed and he would. catch them and stomp on them with his. boot. Or he would catch them, throw them.

in the grass alongside the river and. then pick up a big rock and smash it. down on them. And he'd be like, "That's. what you do to things that are. worthless." So everything's like a means. to an end for him. So he just wants to. scare everyone. >> It It's a control thing. It's it's a. domination thing. It's also to let you. know if he considers you worthless, this. is what will happen to you. He, you.

know, we're we're down there as a group. of young boys. And it's not just me. he's, you know, targeting. He's. targeting all of us and uh letting us. all know how he feels about worthless. things. >> This is a little sidetracked, but I was. doing research into sunfish cuz I didn't. even know what they looked like. And in. a lot of indigenous cultures, they're. actually known for protecting the young. >> Really? >> That's like they're some of the fiercest. protectors of their young. >> Wow. like they will stay by their young.

for 10 to 14 days and starve themselves. just to protect them. And so it seems. almost ironic that he specifically did. not like sunfish as well. >> Wow. I didn't heard that. Yeah, it's. amazing. >> So in one of the court documents, it. mentions that he did he drink a goldfish. or he bit a goldfish in half, spit the. halves into his beer. Did he drink the. beer with the goldfish? >> Yeah. Yeah. And he said he used to do.

that with his army buddies. >> And he would just make you guys watch. >> Made me watch. This was at his house. >> You're saying that he will bite the. goldfish in half? >> Yeah. He he bit a goldfish in half and. then swallowed it down with his beer. And you can make up whatever. psychological reference you want. You. know, again, it's to. scare me. It's to show violence to me. like his demeanor during all of it is. just.

>> Dennis Dennis was a light switch. >> He could be one way outgoing, friendly, gregarious, funloving, instantly eyes dilate, turn black, and. he becomes a completely different. person. >> What happens at the Polaroids? >> Yeah. down at the lake. Again, I lived. at a lake community and there was a dam. area and the dam would separate the lake. and then into the river. >> and that's where all us kids would hang.

out and play. He did everything out of. the watchful eye of my parents when. everything happened. You know, uh my. mother said, "I never even saw him with. you." And I'm like, "Everything happened. down at the lake." And he was giving. beer to us young boys, not just me, down. there. So, I'm like 9 years old, you. know, get a picture of a little. 9-year-old. He invites me into his pickup truck down. at the lake and let's have a beer. So,

he gives me a beer and I thought it was. great, you know, like here's a. lieutenant. He's a lieutenant in the the. sheriff's department and I I'm getting. to have a beer with him. I'm thinking. this is fantastic. and he says, "Uh, one of my friends just bought a old. farmhouse and there was a desk, old desk. left behind." So, I started going. through the drawers and it was filled. with uh uh porno pictures. You want to. see some and and you know, I'm like.

thinking like Playboy magazine type. stuff. >> He you know, reaches he had cargo. shorts. You know, cargo shorts had the. big pockets on them. So, he opens up his. his cargo shorts pockets and takes out a. handful of Polaroid pictures. and he just he's looking at them and. he's just start starts giggling like a. little school boy would giggle and he's. like, "Oh, these are a riot." He's like, "Here." And it was a closeup of a young. penis. And he's like, "Here's another.

one. And here's another one." And it was. just penis after penis. And he and he's. slapping my knee in his truck, laughing. Aren't these so funny? Aren't these a. riot? And I'm like, "Where's all the. women then?". >> And he's like, "Oh, those must have been. in the other drawer. Next time I go over. to that house, I'll I'll open up the. other drawer for you." And but look at. these. Aren't these a riot? Aren't these. so funny? And he's and I'm just like,

you know, >> so you think he took these Polaroids? I. mean, there was no friend. There was no. farmhouse. >> No, >> he took these. >> Yes. Yeah. I He always had. large stories and and looking back now, I don't know if any if one of them was. true. I have no idea. >> He would invite you to his house and. then he would try to feed you beers. And. >> what would what would happen a lot is.

the damn area where where I lived, the. river went right through Still Water to. um a bridge area, the gristill bridge. There was a gri old gristill right at. the bridge. >> And he would say down at the dam area, the fish aren't biting that good. Let's. go over, you know, towards the grist. mill or there's twin bridges in another. section of the river. or he'd say, "Let's go to the Twin Bridges." And he. would always mysteriously.

slip in the mud. His foot would go into. the mud. Or he'd slip and go into the. river and get his boot wet. And we'd. have to go to his house so he could. change his sho sneaker or change his. boots. And that's how he would get me. over there. And then while we're there, well, let's have a beer while we're. here. So, it would be just to get me. comfortable going to his house and. having a beer at his house. >> Were the houses like far apart or did. people see that there's constantly boys.

going in and out of his house? >> No, he lived he lived up a long driveway. and the house house sat alone up there. >> So, you can't see anything. Like, if you. were to scream, people can't hear. It's. pretty. >> There was houses down below, but his was. a driveway that went up, did a 90° turn. to the house, and it was the only house. up there. >> His house um. >> I don't want to call it a a cabin. It. was a two-bedroom uh oneb house.

>> Mhm. >> And it sat up on a hill that overlooked. the elementary school playground. >> Was he like looking there all the time? Was he outside? I went to that. elementary school, Stillwater Elementary. School. I was in little league baseball, and he was at every game that I can. recall down on the fence. There was a. fence that would go around the ball. field. He would be down there. He would. come around the fence to to the bench. where we'd sit at and grab your.

shoulders. Oh, great job out there. Great job. um just always down at the playground. with the young kids. >> No one thought it was weird cuz he. doesn't have kids of his own, right? >> Not married, no kids, but he's the. lieutenant in the sheriff's department. He's the boy scout leader. The the boy. scouts did their meetings in the gym of. the elementary school. So, he's he's. wrapped around everything in the town.

He's on the Stillwater Historical. Society board. The little old ladies. loved him. I mean, this goes on for. years now. You know, the the touching of. the scar happened when I was 6 years. old. It goes on to, like I said, inviting me into his truck down at the. dam to have a beer with him. And this. has to be our secret. And in my mind, I'm like, I don't want to ruin this. So,

I'm not telling I'm not going to tell my. parents I had a beer with the lieutenant. from the sheriff's department. This is. fantastic, you know. And he made you. like his equal, >> you know. He put you on equal foot. He. made you like feel special and it's us. against the world. Everything he told. me. I mean I mean one of the the stories. I recite is he was always taking trips. out west and on one of his trips he said. he met the Marbor man. Now, if if you. grew up in the 70s, '8s, the Marbor man. was a fictional character, but on the.

back of every magazine with a Marbor. cigarette dangling in his mouth, and he. was the coolest dude imaginable. Dennis. took the coolest, machuous guy in. America and told me he met him on a trip. and he was gay. He said, "It didn't. bother me in the least. He was such a. great guy. uh we hung out for 3 days and had. dinners and and just you know just spent.

a lot of time together. So and again he. he would say this has to be our secret. Don't tell anybody the Marbor man's gay. He confided that in me. You know I don't. want I don't want his secret getting. out. Did he ever meet the Marboro man. who played the Marbor man? Yeah. >> I have no idea. Probably not. Was the. Marbor man gay? Who knows? >> Uh it's just like I said, nothing. nothing is ever as it seems with a.

predator. And so what's he doing? He's. taking the machuous guy in America, fictional character, but machuous, and. and and making him gay and and trying to. gauge my response and trying to. normalize it like, hey, the machuous guy. in in the world is is gay, you know, and. that's. >> um. again, I I that's what I would surmise. he was doing, you know. I can't get into.

his mind. He tries to start wrestling. with you. That was kind of like the. gateway into. >> Yeah. You know, so he he's taken years. now, you know, of of porn pictures. Marbor man beers slipping into the. river, go to the house, beers, you know. So he's he's he's in invested years of. grooming. Um, and at some point you have. to initiate more touch.

That's why I I see people tussle a young. boy's hair and it just sends a a chill. down my spine. Cuz to the normal person, it's like, oh, cute little Billy, you. know, >> but to a predator, they need to initiate. touch. in that that little tussle of the. hair is going to go to a pat on the. knee, is going to go to a pat on the. thigh, is then going to go to a. wrestling match. So, he told me. um that he wrestled my older brother Jay.

and he wrestled my next door neighbor. Jeff. Jeff and Jay were inseparable. Um. they were same age, same grade in the. scouts together. and he says to me, "I wrestled Jeff and. Jay. Let's see how tough you are.". And I'm like, "Okay.". And. at first he would let me. dominate, let's say, you know, get the.

upper hand on him. And then like I said. that that light switch would go off and. his eyes would turn dark and black. and he would pin me to the ground and he. would get his hulking 265 lb body on top. of me and start gyating and moving and. grooving. and. looking back on it at the time not. really realizing what he was doing. that. he was. erect.

>> and. this was getting him off. >> And you're 11, so you're you're tiny. >> I was 10 when that started happen when. the wrestling started. >> I mean, he's like three, four, five. times your size. >> Yeah. I I mean, because of of I was a. sick little kid when I was young. like, you know, I I was in the hospital. constantly with the flu and bronchitis. and anything because of the whole in my. heart. They would they would put me into.

the hospital immediately. I'd be in an. oxygen tent and uh you know, so I was. constantly in the hospital and. um. I had to be careful for a long while. after surgery with playing. Uh there was some limitations put on me. by the doctors, you know. So I I was. just a small little kid back then, sick. kid. And uh. and this guy just took a took advantage.

of that. And and he could tell like I. was insecure, you know, cuz my scar made. me stand out. And they look for. something like to separate the weak from. the pack, you know, like any predator. does. And my scar was, you know, in my. insecurities. uh about it is how he separated me from. the pack. A and wrestling was the next. avenue of physical touch. He's devoted. four years now of stories and secrets,

alcohol, pornography, and now it's time. to get back to touch. There's a part. where in your book, your memoir, you. talk about how he pinned you down and he. says something along the lines of like, "Come on, you can get out. Come on, squirm." Do you feel like he is getting. off on you struggling or. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's exactly what he was.

doing. you know, he he would. he would get me down, you know, like I. would be in the dominating position on. top of him and and then all of a sudden. the light switch goes and he would get. rough with me and like sort of throw me. down, my 10-year-old body throw me down. and get on top and be be commanding me. to try harder to get out, squirm more, move more, you know, because he's. wanting me to move against him.

>> and what he has going on. >> He comes over for Christmas. What does. he get you as a Christmas present? >> I had a boy scout hunting knife, okay, >> is what they were called. And he brought. me a wet stone sharpening kit to sharpen. the hunting knife. And. um over over him drinking, you know, a. glass or two of eggnog at our house, he. taught me over the next hour, you know,

keep keep the blade at, you know, an 18°. angle, how to drive it, you know, across. the stone, you know, the oil you got to. use. and uh and then he would have me do. it and uh taught me how to get a perfect. blade on my hunting knife. And that was something I kept perfectly. sharp my whole life. >> The hunting knife? >> Yeah. >> What happens when you're 12? And what.

happens to Dennis's dog as well? I know. that there was like a hunting ploy. excuse of like you're going to pretend. to be shot in the woods because my buddy. shoots everyone without thinking. >> So at at at 12 he he concocted this. whole big hunting ruse of having a. friend. who just shot and a aimed and shot.

without knowing if it was safe to shoot. Mhm. >> And he said, "I, you know, we've got to. correct my friend from this bad habit. and I'm going to I'm going to use you as. a a decoy out in the woods. You're going. to be laying there with fake blood on. you and I'm going to take him out. hunting and he's going to do his, you. know, typical shoot and then we're going. to come upon you lying there with fake. blood. and you need to practice gurgling sounds. like you're gurgling blood. You know,

your death rattle he called it. you have. to practice your death rattle. So he got. me down at the lake one day, got me back. to his house. We're going to practice. your death rattle at the house. And. instead of offering me beer, he offered. me blackberry brandy. You know, a glass. of blackberry brandy with a beer and he. told me to chug it. And then he gave me. another thing of brandy. and his house was.

it was a summer day, but his house was. like way hotter inside than outside. And. in in my adult mind now looking back, I'm like, did he have his heat on? Did. he like purposely turn his heat on in. his house to make it sweltering, knowing. what he had concocted? Like I say, with. a predator, you never know what they're. thinking. So, his house is boiling. We're sweating. He wants me to lay down on his bed to.

practice my breathing. And it goes to It's so hot in here. Let's just take our our our shirt and. pants off, our shorts off. And then it goes to. He's behind me, has me in a bear hug, and me. and I'm screaming, I'm crying. and he had a dog um which is uh called a.

hound and hounds have this. long. drawn out howl they do. and. as I'm being raised I hear his dog. howling away because of my cries and. screams and it didn't stop this guy. until he was done doing what he wanted. to do with me. And afterwards he sat me down at his. kitchen table.

and got another beer like like almost. like we were two lovers who just had a. romantic trrist together. and. he brought his dog over to me. and said, "I want to show you what will. happen to you if you ever open your. mouth about what just occurred.". And he started to beat his dog and beat. his dog. And I'm crying and screaming.

and begging him to please stop, to. please stop. And he he wouldn't until. the dog lay in a heap at my feet. Now, I was just. contacted just. two days before this interview by a. gentleman. who when he was 17 years old needed a. place to stay and he stayed at Dennis. Peg's house for 6 months.

And he said it was the most bizarre six. months of his life. He said the guy was. a complete freak. He said one thing that. happened though is he got now when he. was 17, he's 10 years older than me. I. would have been seven back then. When he. me would be 5 years later. >> So this dog would be 5 years old. And this guy said, "Dennis got this. coonhound puppy when I lived with him.

and it peed on the rug and he beat the. puppy so bad we had to take it to the. vet to save its life. So even as a puppy, he beat it for. simply doing what puppies do and peed on. a rug." And then this is the same dog 5. years later that he beat and probably. killed in front of me. You never saw the. dog again? >> No. >> And a lady,

a female guard who worked with him at. the jail. told me how Dennis came in one day all. distraught that his beloved coonhound. dog, Duke, died. And we all. gave him hugs and tears. And we all. loved dogs. We were all dog people. And. she goes, "I am horrified to think.

that's because of what he did in front. of you, that he killed Duke.". >> It says in your book that you felt. guilty over what happened to the dog. Is. that. >> uh he only I I felt he only did that to. to Duke because of my cries and screams. And if I hadn't cried and screamed. during the. that uh.

what he did to Duke wouldn't have. happened. >> Do you still feel that way or. >> Yeah. I mean, he might have had that planned. Well, he couldn't determine if Duke was. going to cry or not. Like I said, with a. Predator, you never know. Um, but yeah, I still feel I still feel. guilty for Duke. >> Do you feel like Duke had more humanity.

than Dennis in that moment? >> I feel Duke and I were the only two in. that room who had humanity. And that's saying a lot since Duke's a. dog. Um, Dennis I feel lost his humanity a long. time. ago. As soon as you. as soon as you dedicate your life to. hunting children and them.

um you really can't say you have. humanity. That's pure evil to me. If you're going to define what the devil. is, the devil is really the guy with a. smile on his face who's charismatic, outgoing, friendly, charming, who. everybody loves, who's involved in all. these organizations, who's on the. historical board, but who's only doing. those things to fool people of his true. nature.

>> What changed after that day? >> I My life was forever altered after that. day. Um, my whole trajectory in life changed. that day. Nothing would be the same. I. would tell myself that talking about. what just happened would be reliving it. and we were never going to do that. We. could just bury this down deep inside. and go about our life. I convinced myself that that's what I.

could do. I led the most exhausting life. because I would crank on a smile to the. world. and inside I was completely broken and. destroyed and I I went through that way. my whole life until I couldn't keep it. up any longer. >> How many years passed since you're 12. and then the day that you see Dennis Peg. at Quick Check? I was. 45.

when I saw him at the quick check. So, you're talking 33 years. >> 33 years. He's probably still hunting. kids. >> Yes. >> And then there is a day that comes where. you effectively hunt the hunter. You. step into Quick Check. What happens. there? It's like a gas station. It's a. convenience store. >> Yeah. This one was just uh a convenience. store. They have gas stations now. They're a lot larger, but this was just. a convenience store in a little like.

fourstory mall. I'm getting a coffee. I'm at the coffee. island making a coffee. The front door. opens. I think it had a bell on it, so. it made me look up and I look up and I. look into Dennis Peg's eyes. He sees me. and he yells out to me, "Hey, how are. you, buddy?". And I instantly start going into a panic.

attack. I can tell just by the way he said, "Hey. buddy, you know that he's going to come. over to me.". I had seen Dennis around around our town. over those 33 years. Um, you know, I. recall once in a bar. uh after college, me and my buddies were. in a bar and soon as we ordered a beer, I get a pat on my shoulder and it's. Dennis Peg and I chug my beer and I tell.

my buddies, "We're we're going.". >> There's no. >> no remorse, no shame, no guilt. Yeah. The a predators uh. >> Yeah. Yeah, they don't ever show that. So, so I had seen him around town, but. it had been probably 10 years since I. saw him. And what was different this. time in that quick check, which. completely unraveled me, was that he had. a young boy by his side, probably close.

to the age he me at. And that young boy. called him the same nickname. Dennis used to make me call him. And I. heard that nickname and I saw that young. boy and I just it just ripped open. everything for those 33 years that I. told myself I could bury down and go. about my life. When he would touch me, I. I would I would freeze. I would stiffen.

like a board. And I felt my muscles like it's like a. paralysis. And I felt that coming on me. And I I felt it hard to breathe. And. the thoughts in my mind just like your. mind starts swirling where you can't. even think. And I'm like, I got to get out of here. before I completely freeze. And this guy. like grabs me. And I just left my coffee. and whatever stuff I had on the on the.

island there. And I ran out past him. We. sort of shoulder bumped a little and. he's like, "Where you going? Where you. going, buddy? Come here." And I ran out. and I hopped in my truck and I sped out. of the parking lot and I went down the. road. and my life unraveled. Just. just completely unraveled. Do you think. you saw yourself in the little boy? Is. that or you just felt protective of the.

little boy? >> Did you? >> I couldn't get out of my mind. over the next months that boy and. wondering what part of the grooming. process is he. Is he being shown. Polaroid pictures? Is he having beers in. his truck? Is he at the wrestling stage? busy. teaching his buddy how to shoot right in. the woods by lying there with blood on. fake blood on him and doing a death. rattle in his bed. You know, I I it uh.

haunted me. I I couldn't even work any longer. Like. I was in business with my brother. We. had Tire Automotive Center and uh I. walked out one day and uh I just. couldn't go to work anymore. Uh, I was. having to drink before work just to just. to go into work, you know, instead of. filling my coffee mug with coffee. Uh, I. was so out of sorts. I'm filling it with. alcohol and I'm doing other drugs.

So, I walked out of the business with my. brother and now I've got free time on my. hand, which is never good when you have. trauma. And I've got Dennis Peg in the forefront. of my mind. I've got that little boy in. the forefront of my mind. And I had zero. coping skills throughout my whole life. I, you know, like mindfulness, like all these foreign terms. I I I I.

never incorporated it, you know. Um, I. just dove head first into drugs and. alcohol, like literally around the. clock. Just one drug on its own wasn't. enough. So, I'm just taking any drug I. can get to try to numb myself, to try to. block the thoughts from. >> You start unraveling after quick check, but then there's a guy that you see. smirking. Who is this guy? You see him.

smirking on TV. What happens? >> Yeah. Um, I was in bad shape. You know, I wasn't sleeping much because of all. the pain I'm doing. and I I put on my TV. and it's Jerry Sanduski, the start of. his molestation trial. Jerry Sanduski. was one of the coaches at Penn State. University. and he was running a football camp for. young boys and over the course of years, decade plus, molesting boys at his.

football camp. He was finally facing trial for that. and. his trial uh was starting on June 12th. of 2012. And I saw him on the news get out of his. lawyer's car and smirking and buttoning. his. uh coat jacket. I don't know what else to say. And I.

just started yelling curses at my TV and. spitting on my bedroom floor. cuz I saw Dennis Peg as him. I felt. Dennis Peg was never going to face. justice. >> It's It's like a similar smirk that they. have. Is it. >> Yeah. You know, they can never let their. guard down. They'll never apologize to. you. Like victims always reach out to me. and say, "I want to I want to go. confront my abuser." And I'm just like,

don't they you'll you're going to get. reabused because they'll never give you. the answer you want to hear. It's not. worth your time. >> And uh so so they keep that air about. them. Dennis Peg and that that deli like. calls out to me like we're best friends. I'm a victim of his like what are you. do? Like and Sandusky's getting out. smirking as he's trial starting. >> Mhm. Uh, and that just uh that just. infuriated me.

I I spent the rest of the day out with. with a couple friends drinking and uh me. sneaking drugs, you know, uh, I got to. go out and make a phone call, you know, in my truck. I'll be right back. So, uh, and I'd go out and do Coke and Papa. And. I had someone I stopped at an Italian. restaurant on the way home that night. I. was meeting a buddy at my house who I. had lent money to and he was going to.

powerwash the the cedar siding of my. house and stain it as repayment. So I was meeting him at home, but I. stopped at this Italian restaurant and. there was a guy in there who burned me. on a business deal, motorcycle deal. I. took out a a $33,000 loan to have him. build me this custom motorcycle. And he. took the money, my money, and a couple. other people's money, and closed up shop. in the middle of the night, then left.

town. And all of a sudden, here he was. in this Italian restaurant. So, I went. up to him and had words with him and he. was with his family. So, I said, "Out of. respect for your family, uh, you know, uh, I'm not going to take this any. further, but you know, you got to pay. me, you know, and he just told me to. get lost, you know." So, I get home and. I tell my buddy about seeing that guy. and, you know, we unloaded the equipment.

first. We're having a glass of wine at. the kitchen table and my my buddy goes. to me, that guy's got to be number one. on your hit list. and. it's been 33 years since. I was, you know, and I've never told. anyone. And for whatever reason, I. couldn't stop the words coming out of my. mouth. I just said, "Actually, he's. number two on my hit list. The piece of. garbage who me as a young boy is number.

one. And there it's out for the first. time. The air was like heavy. Like time. stopped. The clock stopped on the wall and we're. just like you and I are sitting across. from each other on a table and we're. just staring at each other and he's. like, "Are you for real or are you. messing with me?". >> So this is the first time in 30 years. that you tell anyone. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, to be exact, 33 years.

Um, yeah. >> You tell Bob, it just happens. You don't. even decide. It's not like. >> Yeah, it was it just came out before I. could even like stop my mouth from. speaking. You know, I was just so tired. and exhausted and beaten down from drugs. and seeing that other guy inflamed me at. the Italian restaurant and just. it just came flying out. Who is the first to talk, you or Bob?

>> Uh Bob's, as I recall, is the first to. say like, "Are you for real?". >> You know, and I'm like, "Yeah, I'm for. real." And then he's like, >> "Who is he?" I'm like, "Who was my boy. scout leader?" And like, "Where did it happen? When did it. happen?" You know? So, I'm just saying, you know, and he's like, "Where does he. live?" And I'm like, you know, he lives like two miles from. here. And. um I think at that point I said to him,

"You know what? It's time to go confront. this guy." You know? Um. ever since seeing him with that boy in. that quick check, I've just been. haunted. And I'm like, it's time to go. confront him. Now, Dennis Dennis Peg, he. had retired uh from the sheriff's. department, but he was still the. firearms instructor. every everybody in. law enforcement has to get reertified. with their handgun every year. And he. was the firearms instructor for two.

counties, Sussex and Morris. So, every. cop, every sheriff's officer had to go. to him to get reertified. So, the guy. was a complete gun nut. And I told Bob. that and I said, "We ought to take something with us.". Mhm. >> I gave Bob a steak knife and I went. under my bed to where I kept that boy. scout hunting knife he taught me how to. sharpen and I grabbed that. Now. Stephanie basically this was a suicide.

mission. You know, a steak knife, a. hunting knife against a guy who had 33. guns in his house, shotguns, rifles, and over a dozen. handguns. If you were doing what he was. doing for 45 years, you would think he. would have a gun at the ready under. every table, on every armrest, on every. couch cushion. You would think like. my time, you know, I'm I'm rolling I'm.

rolling the dice here 45 years in. I. better I better be ready. So, it should. have been a suicide mission when I went. there. >> What did Bob say when you. made that suggestion? I just handed him the knife and I said, "I'm going to go get my hunting knife.". And uh and that was pretty much it. It. wasn't, you know, it wasn't like that. long drawn out thing where we're. crossing our tees and dotting our eyes. and this is how this is going to happen. and that's how that's going to happen.

It was just like I'm like, "Let me just. go confront this piece of garbage, you. know, and uh we'll take these with us.". >> And it's a 6-in hunting knife, right? >> Yeah. Was that the biggest knife you had. or was it more so poetic justice because. he was teaching you to sharpen that. specific knife or you had like no. thoughts. You're like, "Let me just grab. a knife.". >> I I I would think it's uh subconscious. uh poetic justice, you know, like.

take this with you, you know. >> So, you have no plan, just a knife. You. guys drive to Dennis's house. At what. point are you like maybe this is not a. good plan? >> No, just uh like I said, he had a long. driveway. He had it had a 90° turn in. it. Bob pulled up there and at the 90°. turn, stopped, went up the driveway, his. front door was open, and there he is. sitting like he had a storm door. It's a.

summer night, so storm doors shut. I I. mentioned earlier, you know, like the. definition of a devil. Well, to me it. looked like the devil sitting in his. lair. >> That's all I saw. But seeing him, this. is the first time I'm back at that house. in 33 years since what happened with me. and the dog. I never went back to that. house. And I instantly started going into that. panic attack again. Just. just breathing got real hard and I feel.

like rigamortis in my muscles. And before. I I completely froze, I walked up to his. door, that storm door, and ripped it. open, broke the hinge. And I'm standing in his doorway. It's. 9:30,4 to 10 at night. And there's. somebody you ripped in your doorway who. just ripped open your door.

and he casually looks over his shoulder. at me and goes, "Hey, how are you?". And it just seemed like the most. incredulous thing to say in that moment, but again, they can never let their. guard down. Like a normal person would. would like get on their hands and knees. and start praying like, "Oh my god, I. wronged you. I'm so sorry. I know why. you're here.

Please forgive me. I'm sick. I need. help. Come in. Let's talk. >> No. No. >> Do you think if he did that anything. would be different? >> If someone's down on their hands and. knees praying to you, praying at you, begging for forgiveness. I would think. so. Yeah.

>> So, he just says, "Hey, >> how are you?". >> What happens next? >> We all have two faces. The face we show. the world and the face behind closed. doors. I've been showing the world that one. face. And no one for 33 years has seen. the face behind closed doors. Dennis is now going to see my other.

face. The face filled with rage. The face. filled with hate. The face filled with. anger. And I said, "Hey, how am I? Let me show. you how the hell I am.". And I raced across his room. He stood up. and a violent struggle started. I. started slashing at him with the knife. He started punching me.

A violent, bloody. brawl ensued. At one point, he connected with a, you. know, he's still this monster pulking. guy. And he connects with a square shot. to my jaw. And as I'm falling down, I. grab his shirt to keep from falling. down. And I bring the knife down. And that's. when I'm holding his shirt. And that's. where it goes straight through and. straight out and in in into his skin.

just a little. We continue going at it. And I mean, we're we're talking minutes here. It's. not it's not like a long drawn out. thing, you know? Maybe 3 4 minutes, 2. minutes, three minutes. I I It was. quick. And uh he slips in the blood and he. falls down and it's a mix of our blood, you know, like I'm gushing blood now.

and he's up against the wall. I leaned. down in front of him. I got eye to eye. with him. And I said, "It's not so fun. raising little boys now, is it, Dennis?". And I slit his throat. And Bob was standing in the doorway. wideeyed. and I said, "Go get the van and bring it up." Cuz I. had one more thing I wanted to do. I. walked over to the bedroom. He ripped me. in and I spit on the bed.

The answer. to everyone's question is, "Did this. solve everything?". No, it didn't solve everything. Uh, you don't heal from trauma by adding. more trauma. You don't heal from sexual. abuse by murdering someone. It's not how. you heal. I stopped a predator from ever harming. another young boy. 45 years was long. enough of raping young boys.

Um. it should never have came to that. It. would be uncovered that multiple boys. over the years had come forward and. filed lawsuits against him and he got. out from every one of them. But I did what I did. and I knew walking out of his house that. night that my life was over. You can't have the wound I have and just.

show up at a hospital and be like, I was. cutting a steak and drove a 6-in hunting. knife through my hand and, you know, severed all ligaments and tendons. I. need help. >> Did you think about doing that, though? >> I I just I I knew it wasn't an option. like, you know, like I I I just knew. things were never going to be the same. again. >> So, at no point during this altercation, and I I know minutes are brief, but at. no point he doesn't apologize.

>> No, there were there was just the only. words he said was, "Hey, how are you?". And throughout the whole attack, he made. like a high-pitched squeal. He never uttered a word like stop, let's talk, don't do this. Nothing. There was no words. Just a high-pitched. squeal. Like a like a wounded animal. almost. Not one other word other than. that initial thing when I was standing. in his doorway.

>> Did you feel like you're in control of. your movements at that time or did you. feel like you're watching from the. outside in or you're just like on. autopilot? What What is that? Yeah, I I definitely wasn't in control. of my movements or any um. I it was like something had taken over. my my body and uh. man, would I would I be honest if I said. I had out of body experience during.

that? No, I wouldn't be honest. But it. was like that. It was like it was like. looking at at this real going on and and. just like that's how I when I look back. at it like I just I can't believe what. happened. I can't believe that I got to. that point of brokenness to go do that. and potentially flush my whole life away. just from never healing from trauma.

It's keeping the secret and not. addressing it and not trying to grow. from it or heal from it or learn from it. or do anything other than let it just. poison my system for decades. And that's. what it did. And that's the part that I. look back on now and I just like, man, I. probably would have died of a drug. overdose and everybody would have been. like, "Oh my god, Clark. had a great education and he was so.

popular and and what what did he go die. of a drug overdose from?" I mean, that's. where my life was headed. >> Are you saying that even when you killed. Dennis, you didn't even feel a moment of. relief? No, there was there was no relief. because of the wound I had because of. how gory and horrific killing someone. was. Again, I don't view Dennis as having. humanity, but you're still it hurts your.

soul to kill somebody. It's not it's not. therapeutic in any way. It's not it's. not healing. Like, it's. damages your psyche. It damages your. soul. It hurts. And I had to be completely broken to go. do that. >> Do you have nightmares about it or. >> No, >> you never think about it. >> No. No. I don't I don't give him.

again. If if if I killed an innocent. person, that would haunt me. If I killed a. human, that would haunt me. I don't view. Dennis as an innocent person or a human. Why did you walk to the bedroom? That. was to go spit on the bed he ripped me. in. >> At what point were you like, I'm going. to spit on this bed? >> Was it just like. >> I don't know what came over me. Like, you know, again, it's not like Bob and I. sat at the kitchen table like across.

from each other like you and I are and I. said, "Yeah, after I do this, this, this, and this." Then in my bloody. footprints, I'm going to walk to the. bed. He spit me or me on a spit on the. bed, you know? So, like I don't know. what possessed me. to go do that. It's something to just. bring things full circle and to a. closure. I needed to do that. >> Did it bring closure? >> I thought it I thought it brought. complete closure like to my life and his.

like there was two deaths that day. the. life I had been living up to that point, I could never go back to living the way. I was. And I I literally thought, I. forfeit the rest of my life. I'll either. kill myself or spend the rest of my life. in prison. I forfeited any healthy, happy life to just put an end to his. reign of terror. >> That's what I thought. It's interesting. cuz like when I'm reading your memoir. and going through that moment cuz I mean.

the way that it's written I feel like. I'm there. I'm obviously not. experiencing like the depth of emotions. but it feels very I'm there with you. It. almost feels therapeutic when you spin. on his bed. And it's like kind of. interesting cuz I know you don't. advocate for people to do and follow in. those steps, but it just I guess it was. relief for the reader. >> there. There's some sort of poetic. justice in doing that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um I think if everybody.

and it's a lot of it's a lot of. everybody's. If they could spit on the. bed they were raped in, they would want. to do it. >> Yeah. >> You have a hole in your hand. You drive. home and you say you need to tell your. mom. What is the thinking behind that? You're you're telling your mom because. you don't know what's going to happen. next or Yeah. My mom had just come up. from Florida, you know. Welcome home, mom. Oh, man. And uh I called my best.

friend at the time and the girl I was. dating and asked them to come over cuz I. I just uh. my life's over, Steph, you know, like I. am I am I going to kill myself after. this or am I going to spend life in. prison? It's it's one of those two. things. So, let me say goodbye to my. buddy. Let me say goodbye to my. girlfriend. And let me get my mother up. and say goodbye to her cuz.

this isn't going to turn out good. >> And your mom is she's. 80. How old was she at the time? >> Uh yeah, like uh 81 maybe. >> And so your plan is I'm going to wake my. mom up, tell her goodbye. But your mom's plan is I'm going to. clean up the blood and we're going to. run. We're going to get away with murder.

together. >> Mom's like, "We're getting away with. murder." She was, "Oh, man. I guess it's. good to laugh about it now, right?". >> So, she wakes up and you tell her what. happened. You still don't tell her. >> The thing is, I couldn't even tell her. then that I was by Dennis. I still. couldn't I couldn't bring it out. And. she was like dumbfounded. What? Why. would you go do this? Why? And I said, "To avenge a lot of other kids in this.

town." And she goes, "Still. Why you Why. are you the avenger? Why? I don't get. it. Why?" And I couldn't tell her like. for what you know for raping me too, Mom. I just I still couldn't say it even. though I told it to my buddy earlier. She uh helped me upstairs. I I I wrapped my hand in duct tape, which fixes everything. So, I wrapped it. with with paper towel in duct tape and.

went to took a couple Xanax and went to. bed. And my mother went downstairs and. started scrubbing the floors all night. long to get the blood up. >> And so she's like, "We're going on the. run." But you wake up and the cops are. surrounding. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. She told my my sister. uh that she was going to take me and we. were going to go on the run. >> I know. It says in the book you guys are. thinking the end of the world, which is.

Florida, >> right? >> You guys are going to go to Florida. >> Yeah. No, I like the plan. I I think your mom is really adorable. I. mean, there is I was just so fascinated. by your mother because, you know, she's. cleaning up the blood. She's ready to. go. Bonnie and Clyde with you. And then. the cops come the next morning. They've. got on the loudspeakers. They're saying, "Clark, come out." And. she's like, "No, the neighbors are going.

to hear.". >> Your mom is so fascinating. She said she. said to one of the troopers as I was. still in my bedroom, "What are the. neighbors going to think?". He's like, "Ma'am, I really don't give a. damn what the neighbors think.". >> Oh my gosh. Okay, so you see the cops. outside. >> So they took her out like they took her. out of the house. >> and they're like, you look out the. window and they're just like trying to. be sneaky, trying to. >> um Yeah. They're they're like I said,

they're behind they're hiding behind. trees, you know? They don't know. >> what's inside. what I have if I'm loaded. up with a AR-15 or what my mental state. is, you know, they've got a dead body. >> Yeah. >> So, they're they're every one of them has. their gun drawn. >> Everyone's taking, you know, some sort. of protection. There's this big rock to. the left of the yard and there's trees. and there's the shed out back and uh.

they're they're just all behind. everything and then they're behind their. their cars l lining the street and uh. and I I just couldn't believe it. I was. lying in bed like. how are we going to get out of this? Like how are we going to get out of. this? And like there's got to be there's. got to be a way out of this. And before. I could even possibly think of any way. out of this, the cops are there and I'm. just and your stomach just drops.

and you're just like, "It's over, bro. It's it's it's over." And all I could. think, you know, they ordered me out of. the house over a bullhorn. And as I walked to that front door, I. just uh. called out to God, "Let one of these guys kill me when I. step out." Like, like, "It's over. It's. over, God. Like, I don't want to do life. in prison. Just take me now. And uh.

let him shoot me when I walk out." And I. stepped out that front door with my. state police shirt on that I put on and. uh. and I put my arms out to the side and I. just sort of tilted my head back and I. just waited for the crack of a gun and. it never came. And instead I was ordered. off my porch down at the front lawn. spread eagle handcuffed. and taken away.

Were you disappointed when you didn't. hear a shot go off? >> Yeah. Yeah, >> you were. >> Cuz in that in that that ride to the. police barracks was like the longest. ride of my life. And I'm just like, man, one of these guys couldn't kill me. Put me out of my misery. Like, I'll have to find a way in prison to do. it. I'll have to. I'll have to take care of this myself.

>> You killed a cop. You're arrested by a. bunch of cops. You're about to go to the. jail. that that cop worked at. >> Things are not looking good. >> Understatement of the year. >> Yeah. But there are some cops, some. detectives who seem to. they give you some sage advice in that. weird moment. What happens there? Like. what was the energy? Like are all the.

arresting officers do you feel like. hatred dripping off of them because you. killed a cop? Or do they do you not even. notice what their energy is? What is. that dynamic? >> Well, I'm I'm thinking like I'm public. enemy number one amongst law. enforcement. I just killed one of their. own. And yet at the state police. barracks, this lieutenant uh Howie Ryan. comes in and goes, "I have to apologize. to you." And I'm like, I'm like, "What are you apologizing to. me for?". >> And he's like, "I've heard rumors about.

Dennis Peg for a long time." And he. goes, "I want to apologize to you for. never stopping him." He goes, "I can't. arrest somebody on rumors. I need. victims. I need cold hard facts." and I. had neither of those. and I apologized to you and then he left. the room and at first Steph I felt wow. that's that's pretty cool and then I'm. like just started fuming I'm like even. the state police knew everybody knew.

about Dennis Peg and young boys. everybody's got a story the state police. just admitted they knew and yet I'm the. one who just had to flush his life away. and. look at life in prison to stop them like. and they knew and and then so so I went. from feeling good for a second getting. really pissed off for another second and. then I'm like what's it matter anyway. I'm I'm done I'm I'm done when that cop.

Howie Ryan came back in the room he. could see that I had like mailed it in. he he he said I just I could tell you. were you were you were done And he goes, "Something moved in me that even though. you thought you were done, I didn't. think you were done.". And he said, "Look, I've got your DNA. all over that crime scene." He was the. He was in charge of the CSI team that. worked Peg's house. He's like, "Your.

blood's everywhere." He goes, "This. isn't a who done it." He goes, "But that. doesn't necessarily mean your life's. over. my detectives and detectives from. the prosecutor's office are in another. room waiting to interrogate you. He. goes, "If you go in that room and open. up your mouth, you could potentially. destroy the rest of your life." He goes, "I'm telling you right now, go in there, exercise your Fifth Amendment right, request a lawyer, and stay sh keep your.

mouth shut, stay quiet." And I said to. him, "But I don't have a lawyer." And he. goes, "I'm going to take care of that. for you." He goes, "I'm going to get you. a lawyer." And he left the room and on. his cell phone, he called one of the big. lawyers in our county and said, "I need. you to send over fax over to the state. police barracks a retainer for somebody. like immediately." And the and the uh.

the lawyer said, "Who is he and what did. he do?" And he goes, "Clark Frederick's. murder." And he goes, "Okay, then." And. had a thing over in a couple minutes. >> So he tells you not to talk. Do you. listen to him? >> I do. >> Right. When you get arrested, it seems. like the whole town is divided. A lot of. people feel like you did this for very. nefarious reasons. other people start.

hearing what Dennis has been doing. around town. Do you feel like at any. point were there just dividing opinions? Was did it feel like everybody had their. own thought about what the reason the. motive was? Yeah, there there was some. vocal people on his side who were pro. Dennis. >> who who just like referred to me a as a. drunk drug addict who just killed a. great man, you know, like like yeah, I. just woke up one day and said, "Dennis.

Peg, I'm going to go kill you for no. reason." Um before it like really. started coming out about what happened, you know, cuz Yeah. the the little old. ladies on the historical society that. worked with him were like, "He was such. a sweet man." You know, the mayor in. store at the time was like, "Oh, he was. a giant of a human being." You know, and. uh and then people like Howie Ryan are. like, "Um, no, I I knew all about rumors.

about this guy." Your audience is gonna. have to get the book because there's a. line from Howie Ryan in the book to the. prosecutor. It's one of the greatest. lines you will ever hear. I don't want. to give it away. It's such a. >> It's the most powerful line you will. ever read said by him. >> We will put the page number so you guys. can go get it. >> Yeah. >> And I will tell you what page because I. know. >> you know exactly what I'm talking about. >> I know exactly what line.

>> That was a powerful line, right? Unbelievable line. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> At that point, once you've been. arrested, you're facing firstdegree. murder charge initially. So, you're. facing life in prison. >> Life in prison. >> And you have an attorney and they're. saying, "Have a little hope, but not too. much hope.". >> Yeah. You know, I And it's funny that. the the lawyer Howie Ryan at the. barracks called George Daget um who sent. the retainer over. I never even.

interviewed him. uh at the jail as one of my lawyers. I. don't and I don't know why, but I. interviewed a bunch of other lawyers and. uh you know, one lawyer just wanted to. get me bailed out. We'll get you bailed. out of here in 3 days. Like and I'm. like, "All right." And then this other. lawyer came in all flashy with his, you. know, gold jewelry, Rolex watch, and. he's listing all these cases he's. worked. And I knew I knew the cases and.

he lost them all. And in my head I'm. like, "But you lost all those, you know, like so I'm like and then this uh this. guy Dan Perez came in. He was he just. looked like a really good guy, you know, like really down to earth and he came in. and he said, "I think we uh can have a. valid defense for this." I was like, "Really?" He goes, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah." He goes, "Uh" he goes, "You know, it's not going to be easy, but I don't. think your life is over." I was like, "Really? I'm like, "You're hired.".

What's that? >> During that time, Dennis had a security. deposit box that the police go through. >> Yeah. >> And they find a bunch of letters, >> right, >> that he wrote 10 years before he died. >> Correct. And when he was in his young to. mid50s, healthy. >> They all have some variation of pray for. me. I hope I didn't disappoint you. Forgive me for any failings. Do you.

think some of these letters are to. victims? >> Yeah. Yeah. And and and like they're creepy that. there's something really creepy about. them. Like weird. >> And the prosecutor told me after the. fact that he thinks there was 14 of them. in there, that 13 were probably victims. Would you ever think like right now to. like write letters to people in case you.

die? >> No. >> He was 50 something years old. Like like. what would make you do that? >> And he does keep writing interestingly. like if I go to heaven, pray for me. But. if you're already dead, I don't know. what exactly he's asking for in prayer. >> Yeah. >> Is it to get to heaven? It's weird. Yeah, it was uh. I've read those and it just like left me.

feeling yucky like. >> Yeah, >> cuz and then and then if you assume that. they're to victims like I tried my best. I thought we were family. Forgive me for. shortcomings. What What are your. shortcomings? >> How many victims do you think that he. had? My buddy's wife is the sheriff's. secretary and she sat in on every.

meeting with the sheriff in the early. days and they estimate well over a. hundred. >> One of the other victims is very close. to you family relation. Who was that? >> Uh my brother. >> What happened to your brother? Um, my arrest opened up my brother's. Pandora's box. You know, like seeing.

seeing that boy in that deli opened my. box up, my arrest opened my brother's. box up. And my brother wasn't ready to. face it. He wasn't ready to handle it. Didn't want to deal with it. You know, like like I told myself at 12, we're. just going to bury this and and go about. our life. Well, that's what my brother. had done his whole life. And. everyone urged him to get help to see a. therapist.

And my brother did what I did was to. numb himself. And uh. I found him dead on our kitchen floor a. couple years ago from drinking himself. to death. This is going to be a two-part. interview. This is part one. In part. two, we're going to ask Clark about how. and why the FBI came to him to warn him. that someone put a hit out on his life. He has I mean, there's his entire.

journey, or I guess more so fight in. prison, trying to get through it while. he's surrounded by criminals who are. accused of doing the very thing that. Dennis Peg did, which is harm children. There are letters that Dennis Peg left. his presumed victims in his safety. deposit box and how someone very close. to Clark is killed by Dennis Peg after. Clark gets out of prison. Like, how does. that even happen? We are going to go. through all of that in part two. Also, how the hell does Clark get out of. prison when he's facing a first-degree.

murder charge and life in prison? That. will all be asked in part two. But in. the meantime, if you feel like you can't. wait for those answers, which same, you. can get Clark's memoir. It's probably. the most intense memoir that I've ever. read. And I've I've read a copious. amounts of memoirs before. There are. just so many aspects of his story that. aren't included in our episodes that you. can find in-depth in his book. I think I. finished the whole book the first time. around in like 4 hours. It was one of my.

quickest reads. There's something about. it where I don't know how Clark does. this, but every time you catch yourself. feeling like, okay, there's a black hole. that we've now went into, there's no way. out of it. You get out and then there's. just like another black hole. And it is. like the most intense emotional journey. that I have ever been on. You can also. find Clark on his social media accounts. and his own podcast, which I will link. below. But with that being said, that is. part one of the two-part series of the.

story of Clark Fedrics. and I will see. you in part two. [Music].