“I Gave Birth To 4 Of My Father’s Children From The Age Of 15 Yo” - The Story Of Aziza Kibibi

[Music]. Bada bing, bada boom. >> There were times I plotted killing my. father, thinking of committing murder. He went to a diddy party. So he says. that he'd been invited to a white party. Yes, Puff Daddy. You're walking down the street and you. walk past someone. You guys kind of look. alike and it makes you do a double take. Maybe it's the eyes. Maybe it's the way. that both of you guys have dimples on. the right side that's significantly. larger than the left side when you.

smile. But it could also just be you. have similar styles. Maybe you do your. makeup the same. Or maybe your parents. look alike. It's not that big of a deal, right? Or you consider the other. possibility. What are the odds that you. have a half sibling out there that you. don't even know about? I hope that's not. a question that keeps you up at night. staring into the abyss. But if one day. your dad tells you, "Hey, I've been. cheating on your mom for the past few. years. I work as a truck driver. Makes. it so easy to meet people on the road.".

Then yeah, you're probably wondering. exactly how many half siblings do I have. out there. What if you accidentally run. into one of them at an airport bookstore. and you don't even freaking know it. There are two main ways in which this. scenario could likely happen to you. One, one of the parents, like I said in. the previous situation, has an. extrammarital affair. Two, maybe both of. your parents or one of them were donors, sperm or egg donors. That's actually. become a huge issue as of late. One. sibling group discovered they would go. on to these donor websites and they.

would input the member number, like the. donor number of the sperm that was used. to create them and see how many half. siblings they have out in the entire. world, the universe. And some of these. sibling groups would be 150 big. 150. half siblings all conceived by the same. sperm donor. >> Wow. >> Just out there existing. Apparently, they'll have meetups and people will get. blown away because it's like 150 people. who look eerily similar just in. different fonts and it's it's kind of.

unsettling. There are other groups. popping up. 50 half siblings, 25 half. siblings, 30 half siblings. It's very. tricky for them to find each other. because it's not like they can just. compare birth certificates. That would. make it easier. that would at least. provide some sort of tracking method for. half siblings, but usually some sort of. method to track your half siblings. Aziza Kabibi, however, does not really. have to look that far. She already knows. where every single one of her half.

siblings are because she has given birth. to four of them. Aziza Kabibi's children. are also her half siblings because. Aziza's father is also the father of her. children. Aziza's father has been. essaying her since she was 8 years old, impregnating her four times, forcing her. to give birth at home, forcing his wife, Aziza's mom, to help her give birth to. his child, Aziza's half sibling and.

child, and now to Aziza's mom's. grandchild. and also stepchild four. separate times. Once was in a tent on. the beach hiding from the police. Another time was in a Home Depot bucket. at home. And every single time Aziza's. father would force her to raise her. children, his children in the house with. Aziza's other siblings whom he was also. assaulting, Aziza's mother, who starts. becoming jealous of Aziza and her own. daughters and her own grandchildren. and.

he would force them to live in this. cramped space and fight for his. attention until Aziza finally escapes. This is Aziza's story. [Music].

So, you're 15 when you're pregnant for. the first time. Did you know that you. were about to give birth? >> I did not know I was having labor pains. What it felt like was I was having. menstrual cramps, very mild, and then I. felt like I needed to use the bathroom. My family, we lived in one room in the. house that we were renovating at the. time and everyone was in that one room. asleep on the mattresses on the floor. Got up in the middle of the night to go. outside of the room. We didn't have any.

working plumbing or toilets, so we were. using the bathroom on Home Depot. buckets. went and sat on the bucket. thinking that I had to defecate, that I. had to go to do a number two, and I. started pushing, not thinking that what I was feeling. were actually labor pains. And as I was. pushing, trying to go, water splashed. from between my legs, all across the.

floor. And I screamed out for my mom. She came running out and she grabbed me. Then she screamed for my dad. He came. running out and he looked between my. legs and he said, "Her head is right. there. Aziza, do not push." So they. carried me back into the room. By that. time, the commotion had woken up my. siblings and the dogs. I remember. hearing them barking and my father just. kept telling me, "Do not push. Do not. push. She's coming too fast." And I'm.

there laying on the mattress and I'm. doing my best to try to hold her in, but. my body was not cooperating. And I ended up pushing unwillingly. and my baby just shot out of me and my. father caught her. So he said that I had. torn because she came so fast. By that. time I was only 16. I got pregnant when. I was 15, but by the time I had my. daughter, I was 16. and my body just.

hadn't matured enough. So I tore my. breasts were not form developed enough. to breastfeed her. So when the milk. started coming in I was extremely. engorged. I didn't have nipples to feed. her. So it was a whole thing. But. looking at her, looking at this baby. that came from me, I fell in love with. her. She had these big, beautiful round. saucer eyes. And once all of the. commotion settled down, my parents and.

my siblings went back to sleep. I just. stayed up with her and just looked at. her and I fell in love and I cried and I. thought about what got me to that point. And even though it was rooted in a whole. lot of trauma and pain, you know, I felt. like, wow, finally now there's somebody. to love me. >> When you had your first baby, did. everyone in the family know that this.

was also your father's child? >> None of my extended family knew. So, my. mom knew. Yes. My siblings knew. Even. before I got pregnant, my father told my. brothers and sisters that he was keeping. me and I was not allowed to have a. boyfriend and they had to watch me and. tell him whenever if anybody ever tried. to talk to me. So yes, they knew by this. time and um it was just something that. was accepted. >> Did anything change after you had your.

first child? >> I would say yes. Well, most definitely. yes. I wouldn't just say it. Most. definitely. Yes. I already felt a sense. of purpose, I guess, because my father. weaponized my brothers and sisters. He. told me that, specifically my sisters, he told me that if I did not tell what. he was doing to me, if I didn't fight. him, then he would not molest my. siblings. That didn't last for very long. But for.

a good four to 5 years, you know, my. father did not touch my my sisters. I. kind of had a sense of purpose where I. accepted that this was the sacrifice. Whatever suffering I was going through. was a sacrifice that I made in order to. keep them safe. But then after I had my. daughter, that definitely increased. because now I was her mom and I was. determined not to do to her what my. mother did to me. and that was. essentially to do nothing. The other.

thing that changed was my relationship. with my mom. Now that my daughter was. here and my father. had kind of labeled her royal blueb. blood, right? He put her up on a. pedestal. Then my mom became jealous. My. father believed in hitting his children. for discipline. He would not hit my. daughter at all. He completely got rid. of that whole belief system with her. But he was still beating my my siblings.

He was still beating me. And I think. that created some animosity in my. mother. So that was something else that. changed. My relationship with my mother. was already strained. But it had kind of reached this kind of. plateau of this is just the life that. we're living. And I accepted it to a. certain degree. But um it definitely. changed even more after I had my. daughter because then she started having. or started expressing more animosity.

The abuse starts when you're 8 years. old. >> Yes. >> Before you're eight. Can you walk us. through the family setup and what your. life was like up until the abuse start? >> So I could go back to as far as I. remember is what I remember which. actually is pretty young. My parents met. when they were teenagers in high school. My dad was 18 and my mom was 17 when. they had me. Then they got married. So, as far as my memories are concerned, we. lived in the attic of my grandmother's.

house. When my mom got pregnant with my. first sister, but third child, we moved. downstairs to a a small apartment that. was connected to the house, but it was. bigger than living up in the attic. Our. life, I remember a very happy childhood. Yes, as I said before, my father. believed in punishing, you know, his. children by beating them. So, I. definitely remember him beating me when. I was little if I misbehaved. I remember.

that if I tried to go downstairs to see. my grandmother when we lived on the. third on the in the attic, then he would. catch me and he would whoop me then. Um. I remember tearing up a mango tree that. he was growing and he beat me then. So I. remember those things and I think. because they were traumatizing even as a. toddler. But then as I got older and we. moved down stairs,

I had a happy childhood as far as I. could remember. I was allowed to play. with my cousins. I was allowed to go. visit my grandparents. And my father was very involved in our. life. He he was determined to give us. experiences that I don't think were. normal for black children in Patterson, New Jersey. So, I grew up going. blueberry picking and going to visit the.

Statue of Liberty. And then we were. homeschooled. So, my cousins, they would. complain all the time about going to. school and hating school, but they just. thought it was so cool that we got to. stay home. So, all of those things, we. turned out to be like the cool kids in. the family and really had a lot of fun. with it. The homeschooling. Was it your. dad homeschooling you guys? And you're. the eldest. >> Yes. >> I I think you mentioned like you your. dad would teach you and then you would.

teach your siblings. >> Yes. >> That is a lot to take on. >> It was what was that like? It was. stressful. The first child that my. father delivered was his third child but. my first sister. Right. there was a. brother between her and I and she was. born feet first and my father always. said that she would be like a problem. child because she was born feet first. and I I still maintain that my arch.

nemesis was b was born into the family. as my sister so I had to teach her how. to read. >> and she gave me the most difficult. difficult time she challenged challenged. everything. She would try to tell on me, get in trouble. She refused to do her. homework. So, yeah, having that stress, being responsible for having to teach. her how to read, write, do math because. it came with the threat of my father. If.

my sister was not at a certain level by. a certain time, then I would get. punished, you know. Yes. The stress became the. stress was a lot. I just accept it. I. was the oldest daughter. I accepted it. as my responsibility and I just did the. best that I could. Why did your dad. decide to do homeschooling? Was it like. he didn't think the school curriculum. was good or was it a separate reason? Was it to shelter you guys in? >> So, what he told us was that the school.

curriculum wasn't good, especially for. African-American people. He felt that. this public school education did not. suffice for his kids. and his. experience. He would tell us horror. stories of what he went through in. school as a child being bullied and and. teachers not liking him. So he kind of. created this view of school that was. just tough and struggle and then it not. being adequate for him and he didn't.

think it was adequate for us. So that. was the reason that he told us. I feel. like looking back, yes, some of it was a. manipulation, was a way to keep us. sheltered, but that's in hindsight. During, he definitely said that. essentially the public school that we. had access to was not good enough to. educate us. Closer to when you're eight, you're being homeschooled, you're. teaching your siblings everything, you're kind of forced into this role of.

an adult in the family. How does the. abuse start? I think it's safe to say it. started with the physical abuse. >> because we as much as I loved my father, I was definitely afraid of him. And he. was involved with us, we we would play, we'd run around the house, play hideand. seek. He was a very hands-on dad. But. when he got angry, he took it out on us. He would beat us with belts and take.

turns with the belt. He taught me. algebra holding a kung fu slipper in his. hand. So if I got the answer wrong, he. would slap me with the with the kung fu. slipper. But of course at the time as a. child, just think, well, this is how. your parents discipline you. So. inclusive of him using corporal. punishment, he also grounded us. So if. you did something wrong, you couldn't. watch TV, you got locked in your room, like all of these things. And even then. it progressed to starving. So it's a.

little fast forward. I was a teen. Well, I wasn't a teenager. I think I was about. 13. When my father first bought the. house in East Orange, he would take us. there to do the renovations. We'd had to. clean up slacks, rip down walls, do all. of like the hard labor. And we would. have to, my brother and I would have to. complete a certain amount of tasks by. the end of the day. if we did not. complete the tasks, the punishment was. that we didn't get to eat. So he started.

to employ now these starvation methods. and his child raring and you know it. just I just feel like it got worse and. worse from there. So I was already. afraid of him. So, by the time I'm 8. years old, you don't want mommy to tell. daddy if he was acting up because then. you'd get a bad beat in or get some kind. of severe punishment. And usually the. punishment just never fit the crime. >> Your mom during all of this, she's more. of like a quieter parent, like not as.

involved or. >> No, she was definitely involved. She was. there cuz even with the education was to. align it with regular school. It was. like my mom was kind of the teacher and. my father was the principal. My father. taught the hard subjects like algebra. and any of the sciences and technology, but my mom focused more on the English. and basic math and she would check all. of our work and give us our assignments. So they worked hand in hand. How did the.

molestation start? So, one day my mom. sent me to talk to my father in their. bedroom and he was commending me, which. was rare. He told me that I had been. being very responsible. He was proud of. me. Um, he was, as far as my school. work, my mom would grade our work, so I. was getting A's according to her gold. stars. And he just told me that I he was.

very proud. And then he told me that he. had to show me how to be a woman. And. this is what all fathers did with their. daughters. And then he took me in the. back room, which was a closet area that. separated our apartment from my. grandmother's house, and he laid me down. and he performed oral sex on me. You're. eight, so you don't know what he's. doing. Did you believe that this is. something that normally happens because. that's what he said or did you have.

this? I I had an icky feeling, right? I. had an icky feeling because from what I. understood, what I had been taught by my. mom specifically was that no one was. supposed to look at my private area, right? No one was supposed to look at my. private areas. Mommy to help clean and. daddy whenever something was wrong, right? something was wrong because he. was the person that kind of diagnosed. sicknesses and gave us herbs and things. like that. So for this behavior, I was.

uncomfortable. As his daughter, I can't protest. I. can't argue against it. So it more felt. like that. I did believe him. I believe. that all dads did this with their. daughters because he is who I got all of. my information from and all of my. knowledge from. So when this happened, yeah, I accepted it. However,

while he was going down on me, I felt. very scared. I didn't like the feeling. He asked me, "Do I like it?" and I was afraid to tell. him that I didn't like it. So, what I. told him was that, well, I don't want. him to do it anymore. That was my way of. cautiously answering him. He kept doing. it anyway and then eventually stopped. So, so yeah, I mean, I knew I didn't.

like it. How frequent is the abuse initially? >> After that one time, I would he did not. abuse me again for probably about a. week. I thought that that would just be. the only time in my mind. I'm like, "Oh, okay. I guess I know how to be a woman. now." And what's interesting is that my. father, he limited what we watched on. television. So, we were only allowed to. watch educational shows like Reading. Rainbow, 3:1 Contact, PBS essentially.

And he was really into films. He was. really into movies. So, he would rent. movies or we'd go to the movies a lot. And anytime a adult scene or any kind of. sex scene would come on, he would my mom. would cover our eyes. And so then to. then have this other activity that. technically only adults are supposed to. be having, here I am now. a a kid participating in this activity, but I did not against my will of course.

I was not allowed to watch it in a film. So that kind of got confusing. He. molested me again about a week after the. first time and then after that it was. almost every night. Almost every night. >> I mean if it's every night did was your. mom did she notice at this point? Was. this when she notices or is it later? >> My father told her. My father told her. but he had been molesting me for a while.

before he actually told her. So he. started molesting me at 8. He told her. when I was 10 years old, but by that. time he was raping me. So what he told. her was that he was molesting me to help. my skin condition. And though he was. raping me as well, he didn't tell her. that part. And she believed it. >> She did. >> She believed it and she accepted it. And. I mean, if anything, it made it worse,

which is something that happens with. children who are being molested. The. stress of it affects their health. I had. untreated asthma. Um, so even though my. father considered himself this holistic. herbalist guru, I was sick very often. I. had really bad eczema. I had horrible. allergies. Every summer I spent a lot of. time in bed. But he did he at certain. points as the abuse got worse he I would.

be sick barely breathe bre breathing he. would molest or rape me saying that this. was getting rid of the negative energy. that was causing me to be sick. So when. he told my mother that and she believed. him, you know, to a certain degree, I was. like, well, I guess it makes sense for. you to believe him because at different. times he was telling me the same thing. Um, as the one suffering and. experiencing it, no, I didn't believe.

that cuz it certainly was not working, but she accepted it. Was there some sort. of religious manipulation going on? because I know he would tell you guys. that he's the prophet. Is that around. this time? Um, not for us, not for the. kids. For my mom, I suspect that and and. you're bringing up some things I. probably should talk to her about, but I. suspect that he was because he has. always been a spiritual person. He's.

always considered himself a spiritual. person and a lot of people in the. community saw him as that as well. He. would go to the local park and just have. these talks about black people in. America, what their role is and God and. God coming and you empowering black. people and you know so he had that whole. perspective. Was your dad's choice to be. a polygamist also connected to. spirituality or was it. >> I don't think so. When my father started.

practicing polygamy, it actually started. with him just cheating on my mom. I. don't know if between them he just. decided to switch and said it's easier. to say, "Well, I'm practicing polygamy. because Africans practice polygamy." You. know, it could have just been an excuse. or a manipulation, but he actually. started by just cheating on my mom. >> Was your mom open to polygamy or. >> No, not in the beginning. I I I could. feel the tension. I mean, I was young, but I could definitely feel the tension.

I heard the arguments. So, initially she wasn't, but then she. acclimated. She was in love with my. father. I think that that is one of the. things that kept her with him for so. long. She does come from a Jamaican. background. My grandmother is Jamaican. and my grandmother's family is very. proud. They love to keep up appearances. Like, that's really important to them. a. combination with my mom being ashamed.

about my father cheating on her and then. him loving her. I think those things. mixed together then just kept her with. him and made her accept what he was. telling her in a lot of ways. >> I have a question. When you were eight, when the first time he molested you, do. you think that was his first time. molesting a. >> child? >> A child? >> That's a really good question.

I'm going to say I think so. My mom ran a daycare center in my. grandmother's basement and he wasn't. always involved with the children. because he worked a lot. And then. eventually he when when my mom became. more successful at it and her services. became more in demand, he just ended it. completely. He told her, "Well, she. could not babysit children anymore for. income.".

And I don't, aside from my father being. physically abusive to other children, I. never got the feeling or witnessed him. doing anything that felt weird or I felt. like it was weird or even by the time he. started molesting me, it was such a new. idea. It was just like so foreign to me. And I could understand even as I got.

older, there were other things that I. experienced just as a child that was. like, "Oh yeah, well, I kind of remember. seeing when this happened with, you. know, so and so one of my cousins or but. this was just so out of left field." So. I I don't think I don't think he did. But with his mind frame, you honestly. never know. >> You know, you honestly never know. A lot. of people often ask me, "Well, was he. molested as a child?" He never shared.

that he was. He did tell me about when. he lost his virginity. He seemed to be. pretty open about that. And it was with. someone else that was a couple of years. older than him. So I I really believe that this was a. new a new thing. >> And he wanted your mom to stop the. daycare because it was becoming too. successful. So like a control thing. >> Yes. Yes. And this happened with quite a. few of her ventures. She also used to do.

hair. She used to do like hair. extensions for women. And when she. started excelling in that then he'd shut. it down. She also designed clothes and. started making clothes and having. fashion shows. Initially, he was fully. supportive. But then as soon as she. became more successful and things. started taking off, he would shut it. down. So every time the next step would. happen, my father would shut it down. And yes, it most certainly was a form of.

control. >> Meanwhile, he was invited to the. Grammys. >> Was he always in that line of work? Was. he always directing for musicians? No, he started as an interior designer and. cabinet maker for for very wealthy. people in New Jersey and then he started. his own company. And it was through that. company is when he started meeting. celebrities and producers and one of the. producers who had listened to his music. was on the Grammy board and invited him.

and my mom to the Grammys. And I think. after he got that little taste of being. around Michael Jackson and Prince and. all of these, you know, major people, he. decided to focus more on producing. music. And then before you know it, people started asking him to direct. stuff for them. >> He did one really big music video. How. did that happen? So that was that was in.

the '9s. It was Killing Me Softly by the. Fuji's. And he met the Fuji's. I think at a party or something. Our. house had been struck by lightning and. burned down. And through that. transition, he met this guy who saw him. building up the house and was impressed. And my father did what he normally did. He told him about all of his ideas and.

technology and really impressed this guy. and he said to the guy told him that he. wanted to introduce him to W Clef Jean. who at the time had a music studio in. East Range. So he went met with him won. him over with all of his ideas. Apparently, they were about to start a. new album and um then our house burned. down and he maintained the relationship. with them until it got to the point he.

pitched them enough that they said, "We. want you to direct all of our music. videos for our album." And Killing Me. Softly was one of them. He went to a. Diddy party. So, he did. This was before I guess Diddy. was super successful. This was late 90s. and my father had already had you know. mover and shaker within the industry. He. was getting called to do different. people's videos in R&B and hiphop and.

one day he comes home and he says that. he'd been invited to a white party and. it was yes Puff Daddy. I think at the. time he was called Puff Daddy, right? He. was invited. So it was a whole big to-d. do. My mom made him a new outfit. I had. to do his hair. It was a whole big. to-do. And he came back home and had. very interesting stories. Very. interesting. Nothing as severe as like, you know, the crimes that Diddy's.

committed, but it was he found his. people. Let's just say that. >> While he's out doing that, going to. diddy parties, how often are you. socializing with anyone outside at this. point? Not often at all. The only access that I. had to people were people that my father. was dating, so his girlfriends, um, which cycled all the time, and people. that he worked with. Like I I spent a.

lot of time around the Fuji's, but it. was under his eye. And the only reason. why I was there because I was the. caterer. So he had his production. company and I did all the cooking. That's why I was then around these. people. I could not do any of those. things outside of my father's, my mom's, or my brother's presence. So, I was. always being watched. So, yes, sometimes. I was around people, but I was always. watched by someone. By the time you're. about 10, because you're still so young,

do you feel like this is normal still, or about when do you realize this is not. normal? By the time I was 10, I felt. like. I wouldn't say not normal because. my life and my family. was my normal, right? So, technically me. not going to school wasn't normal, but. it this is what it was. >> So, it didn't feel normal because it was.

hurting me. That's that's that's that. was my measure for it not being normal. I'm 10 years old. My father was in his. 20s. He's a grown man. So, it hurt. It. hurt. It was stressful. My father would. keep me up all times of night. And I. still had to get up in the morning to. teach my siblings and make them. breakfast and write affirmations. So, I. was getting like 2 hours of sleep a day.

barely. So no, that was not normal. Those things. were I I could not accept those things. as normal because they were hurting me. By the time I I was about 12 and it was. after. my father. believed that um we were vegetarian but. my father loved to eat very rich. desserts, cheesecakes, chocolate cake, cookies, and he loved Junior's cheesecake.

and he he would buy them, but the kids. weren't allowed to have them because our. palette was not sophisticated enough. According to him, that was his words. Our palette was not sophisticated enough. to appreciate the flavor of Junior's. cheesecake. Something how I remember. that verbatim. So, I decided. I was going to in the middle of the. night sneak a taste of his Junior's. Cheesecake. And when I turned around.

after scraping the side of the. cheesecake, I turned around and he was. standing there. >> He caught me. I was 11 years old. And he took me by the arm and he dragged. me into our bathroom and he sodomized me. and he held my mouth and he hit me. across the head and he told me, "Don't. ever take his cheesecake again.". So after that, um,

I decided I was going to run away. I. decided I was going to run away. It took. some time. I didn't actually make an. attempt until I was 12 years old. Um, and when I packed all of my things, felt that they were distracted enough, and I decided to I was very brave. I. decided to go out next door, which was. the space between my parents' room and.

my grandmother's house, go through my grandmother's front door. And the reason why is because our front. door was in the living room. So, I had. to put my siblings in the living room to. watch TV while I go through another. exit. Turns out my siblings saw me. And by the. time I got to the front door, I turned. around and my brother was there. And he said to me, "Well, Aziza, if you. run away, what's going to happen to us?". And um.

I felt so selfish because I hadn't. thought about it before. I just knew. that I needed to leave. But then it was. just. Yeah. If daddy wasoe was to find out. that Aziza was gone, he would definitely. blame my siblings because they had. already been tasked. with having to watch me and making sure. I didn't talk to people. So, I knew that.

their the consequences of me leaving was. going to embag them greatly. Plus by. then because I did start questioning my. father and what he was doing, he had. already started telling me that well if. I did not fight back or I didn't tell. anyone then he wouldn't touch my sister. So those kind of manipulations and. grooming tactics was already in place. But I felt like how could I not have. thought about what would happen if I was.

to leave? So I didn't I turned around. I begged. begged my sister specifically who I knew. would tell on me not to tell that I. tried to run away. And we continued as. normal. We continued as normal. That's a lot of. responsibility and guilt for when you're. 11. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Did you ever feel like it's unfair that.

only you were carrying that? I wouldn't say I isolated that. specifically as unfair. I felt that. everything was unfair. I felt that the. housework that I had to do was unfair. I. felt that the fact that I got in trouble. more than anybody was unfair. I would I loved fairy tales. One thing. my father would let us do, he would take. us to the library and he had to approve. all the books that we read. I started to.

find. different versions of Cinderella, the African version, the Asian version, the Russian version, like all these. different versions of Cinderella. I felt. like it was me, you know? I felt like I. was this girl who. had all of this responsibility and was. being bullied and and then plus also my. mom started blaming me for what my. father was doing to me. She told me that.

I stole her husband. because even though he had all these. other girlfriends, she could not compete. with a child because she was not a. child. and my father like children. So I. am the only one who was capable of. taking her husband. So our relationship was strained by. then. Um I started acting out at. different points. I was was not bathing,

taking care of my hair, wearing dirty. clothes. That was my way of trying to be. less appealing to my father. My dad. liked pretty girls. He definitely had a. type. So to try to deter him from. abusing me, I was like, "Well, maybe if. I'm ugly, then he won't abuse me." That. didn't work because then I would get in. trouble for my mom for not bathing or. for not doing my hair. So there was. always this tension and back and forth.

between them. And yeah, I thought it was. unfair. I just thought it was unfair. I. remember I asked my mom, "Did she only marry my father because. she got pregnant with me?" because I. felt like it was because I was born that. all of this stuff was happening. >> Did your mom ever show any inkling that. she was not approving of what your dad. was doing? And not in like the jealousy. sense. >> Mhm. >> But in like this is my child.

She did one time that I witnessed. she found out that my not only my father. was molesting me, but one of his. girlfriends was as well. And it happened. to be one that she didn't like very. much. So when she confronted him about. it, he beat her with a belt. And that. was the only time that I saw her stand. up for to me, stand up for me, so to. speak. Um, but after that she didn't.

again. >> Do you think it has more to do with you. being molested or this other woman. partaking? >> I think it was more about the other. woman cuz what she said to him was, "How. could he let her touch me? It was. because she didn't like her." So she had. already accepted him touching me, but. then at that point she was like, "Well, how could he let her touch me?" I mean, my father was abusive to her, to my mom.

as well. He was also abusive to this. woman. So he he was just an abusive. person overall, even in his romantic. relationships. But this was the only time that I have. heard my mom like stand up for me. But. it didn't go anywhere. >> You said there was another woman that. was also abusing you. Is she also a. pedophile or. >> my father? He was a sexual deviant.

>> He was a sexual deviant. And I know this. from personal experience. This woman specifically had, I guess you can say, questionable sexual. tastes. Um, that he encouraged. >> When the first time he molested me with. her, she didn't do anything. She just. watched. He called her into the. bathroom. I was using the bathroom. He.

called her into the bathroom and he. raped me. and he asked her how does it. look to her and he bragged about and I'm. 10. He bragged about the fact that I. could take it all. So his words bragged. about the fact that I could take it all. and she just sat there like with this. smile on her face and was like, "Oh my. gosh, it looks so good." And then I do. remember her touching my shoulder at.

some point. Um, and then he stopped. And. then the next time I had interaction. with her was the following weekend. She. would come and stay the night. Every. weekend. So then the following weekend, he got me up, brought me into the living. room, and she was there as well. And she. came up and she kissed me. And that was. the first time I had an experience with. someone of the same sex.

I preferred her over him because he was. rough. So, as weird as that sounds, it. was like, well, if you had to choose one. of two evils, I preferred her because. she was gentle. He was rough. He was. heavy. You know, he he penetrated me. So, but with her, it was soft kisses and. gentle touches. They were both abused. Of course, I had no choice in the. matter. Yes, the fear was still there. because I'm a child with two adults.

doing things to me that I had no say in. But if you was to ask me, well, Aziza, which which abuse would you prefer? Definitely her. And that's what it was. like. It was like having that confusion. and conflict to say, well, I'm in this. situation where I have no power, but who. do I choose as if I was given a choice? Well, which one do I prefer? Which abuse. do I prefer? Then it was definitely her.

How long was she abusing you for. up until I got pregnant with my oldest. with my daughter? While all of this is. happening at 13, your dad wants you guys. to stop studying. Yes. Did align with. the fact that we were renovating the. house. So before we moved out of. Patterson, out of the apartment next to. my grandmother's house, um he purchased. a house and we was just going there as.

many times during the week that he. didn't have work. So because he wanted. to focus on this, he just comes into it. was my brother and I was in our bedroom. and he just came and said, "No more. school work. >> No more school work. Y'all don't need to. do any school work. We're just focusing. on building the house. Then he came with the threats. If we if. he caught us doing schoolwork, then. there would be consequences. If I could not teach my sibling, my.

younger siblings anymore, there would be. consequences. So, the reason that he. gave us was because we was working on. the house. But I don't believe that that. was the real reason. By the time we moved into the house, and. the reason why we ended up moving into. the house before it was finished, it was. long from finished, is because there were. things happening on my mom's side of the. family, which is where we lived, and.

they seemed to be more, what can I say, they were questioning a. lot of things. There was a huge argument. between my mom's brother and my father. He pulled a gun out on him. So, there. was just more tension and more tension. He just packed everyone up, all of our. stuff, and we moved into the house in. East Orange. There were while some. places didn't even have a roof, holes in. the floor, there were no walls, no.

windows, and and that's where we were. And we continued to work from there. >> And then you said there was 10 people. total in that room. >> It was about It was about 10 people by. that time. Um, so it was between nine. and 10 of us. And I say between nine and. 10 because then I had my daughter, right? So then that ended up making it. 10. So yeah, it was about nine of us. So. it ended up being 11 of us because my. dad's girlfriend who he was molesting me. with, she was living with her mom, but.

then at some point she came and moved. into the house as well. >> And when you guys are living in that. house, all of you guys are sharing one. room. Mhm. >> Is he still molesting you? >> Yes. Yes. Now, by that time, it was a. everybody has to leave the room. So, he. could have sex with whoever, me, my mom, whatever girlfriend, or he would just do. it different places in the house. There. were there were even though they weren't.

finished, but the house was massive. It. had like five bedrooms, three or four. bathrooms, a huge sh. So it was a. massive house. So he would just find. places. And even before we moved there, there were the times that he would take. my brother and I only to go and work and. then he would give my brother something. to do and he would take me to the attic. and rape me and it would be freezing. cold like because my father worked on.

the house. We worked on the house. Didn't matter. Spring, summer, fall, winter after he rapes you. I mean, everyone just acts like nothing. happened. >> Um, pretty much. >> I think a lot of people when they think. of rape, they think of the violent crime. of rape, right? But there are different. forms and essentially it's. taking. a person's right away, right, to their.

body. You you're having sex with a. person. And I feel like that terminology. is so mild compared to what's actually. happened. But you're having a sex with a. person against their will. And whether. that looks like molestation or. intercourse or some form of forced oral. sex, it's against the other person's will. So. sure, my father me, it took time. It. progressed. I was a child. He had to use.

different things inside of me to stretch. me and there was a whole process. Was. that all? PS I didn't have a say. I. didn't have to say I had to do what he. told me to do or there was consequences. So now, yes, by the time he actually. penetrated me with his penis, I I didn't have a say still. So then. when my mom found out, she Yeah. She continued on. She just.

continued on. She didn't witness it. So. for her, it was something that was just. told to her. When it was told to my. siblings that my father was keeping me, they already knew what sex was because. as part of our education, he had already. been molesting me. And I do believe this. was his way of starting to groom my my. sisters. He exposed himself to all of his. children and he gave us a demonstration.

of what penis was and the scrotum and. the urethra and where the sperm comes. out and penis and like he gave all of. that as f as part of our education using. himself. He also practiced on Saturdays. And here's the thing, he went in and out. of different religious belief systems. He chose to as his form of celebration. on the Sabbath day. We rested, but we. did it in the nude. So, the entire.

family walked around the house naked. during this time. No, he was not. molesting my sisters, but he was getting. every opportunity to molest me. And I. believe that he used that as a way to. get everyone more comfortable with the. idea of being nude around each other. Anytime he delivered his children, everyone had to get naked so we could. greet the child in our birthday suit. So, you know, he would come up with.

these philosophies that seemed to make. sense, I guess, but looking back, I was. like, all of this was just preparing. everyone for this very sorted lifestyle. that he ended up having. and your book. is phenomenal and it it's so fascinating. how you're able to write where I was. going through so many emotions and. there's this one part where you talk. about how your dad is on the toilet and.

he would bring your mother in and go. through his philosophies. >> Was that something that you guys had to. do frequently or. >> Yes. Way too frequently. Way too. frequent. when you thought about when. you think about being triggered by. smells this my father on the toilet and. we my brother my brother and I would. talk about it my brother he was no. longer with us we were very him and I. were very close um we were only born. like a year and a half apart and that's.

we would talk we would despise when. daddy would call us into the bathroom. for a lecture while he was sitting on. the toilet was just the it was it was a. horrible thing and sometimes he would. have my mom in there for hours, for. hours. And we only had one bathroom. This is why we still lived in Patterson. in the in the apartment. So, no one. could use the bathroom until he. finished. So, I'm laughing now, but it was he was.

he was very outrage. He was outrageous. in a couple of ways. In quite a few. ways. When did you know you were. pregnant? >> Um, I missed two periods. >> I missed two periods. The first one I. didn't really pay much attention to. My. periods were. they weren't irregular, but it was not. normal for me to miss a period. And now, I don't know, maybe I was pregnant then, but just too young to carry the. pregnancy. Um, but yeah, after the first month, I.

missed my period. And then when it. didn't come the second month, I said. something to my mom and that's when she. thought she was like, I might be. pregnant. And then she went and said. something to my dad. >> What was your mom's reaction? Was it. >> indifferent? >> Yeah, I would say indifferent. She. didn't seem like she was upset or I. think by then the the abuse and her. knowing about it had been gone on for so.

long. I don't think she would have to. expect that I'd get a pregnant. eventually and I don't know what. conversations her and my dad had about. it. >> And what was your dad's reaction? >> My dad was. it was he was a little difficult to. read. >> I felt like initially he didn't really. believe that I was pregnant. So he. didn't have much to say. I remember. standing there and my mom told him that. she thinks I'm pregnant and then he was.

like, "Oh, well, we'll see. Maybe for. him it two misperiods wasn't enough.". But then morning sickness set in and it. set in bad and he completely accepted. it. And then the next time I saw that he. really had a reaction was because his. girlfriend, she was living with us at the time, brought up the possibility of the baby. having deformities because he we were.

close relatives. And he had a very. strong reaction. He got really angry. He. yelled at her and he was like, "What. what the f are you talking about?". and she got scared. And then she says. she read at some point that if two. family members had a child together, then the baby would come out deformed. And aside from just walking away angry, that was it. Then the rest of my. pregnancy, he was.

a lot milder. I guess he was still. ripping me, but by then I was so. conditioned to it. It was just a regular. thing. Um, and I would say he was more gentle, but that's how he was with pregnant. women. Whenever my mom got pregnant, for. the most part, he treated her the best. He did not hit her. He has beaten her. when she was pregnant before, and she. did lose the pregnancy, but it wasn't a.

common thing. Like we knew that if you. were pregnant, it pretty much protected. you from him, his abuse, his physical. abuse. So he was he was very catering. He made sure that I had whatever I. wanted to eat. He, you know, gave me. extra favor, I guess you can say. Um, up. until Yeah. until I gave birth. when he.

was so upset about his girlfriend. bringing up the potential that your. child would have complications, where. was that anger coming from? Like what. what do you think he was angry about? >> I think it was something that he didn't. think about. >> I think it my father considered himself. the authority on everything. So, it felt like he didn't think about. it and then for for it to be something. negative or that he deemed negative, I. think that's what angered him. like he.

really felt like like a little surprised. by this theory. because I don't believe he really did. any research or even thought about it. much the fact that I was pregnant or any. of the circumstances or it was just like. you know I was another one of his women. that were pregnant that was pregnant. So. when she brought up I think it was a. reality check for him and that's why he. got angry. You said that you're protected from your. dad when you're pregnant. Did the.

jealousy from your mom get more intense. at that point then or even from his. girlfriends because of like what is the. dynamic when someone is pregnant between. the others? So my experience with my mom. when I was pregnant, she was just as. caring I guess you can say as my dad. I. think that she became. more. maternal, >> right? It's kind of kind of weird, but.

she became kinder. I don't know if it. was pity or she more took on the role as. her her daughter is having a child kind. of thing, but I experienced. the most maternal. behaviors from my mom while I was. pregnant with my first daughter. um our. interaction. was definitely like oh she was my sister. wife. So essentially it got to the point. where it was like I didn't have a mother.

I had this sister wife and. that changed when I got pregnant as far. as her behavior. So and she was very. helpful during prenatal care and I mean. I was pretty knowledgeable on it but. made sure that I ate and I took. vitamins. So, she was very maternal. actually while I was pregnant. >> How many kids does he have at this. point? >> We've counted 21 so far,

>> like today. >> Yes. >> Yes. 21. Um, that includes my children. Two of my sisters had one child each by. him and any of the women that he has. had. Some of them reached out to us as. recently as maybe about well it was. before co they reached out but there is. a very good possibility that there's. more but so far we have knowledge of. he's had 21 children.

>> He was always threatening you that if. you didn't comply he would abuse your. sisters. >> but then you realize that he is already. starting that abuse. When did you. realize? So it was before we officially. moved into the house. I came out of the. house. We were work there working. It. happened to be one of the times that one. of my younger sisters came with us. It. was my arch nemesis, the the third.

child, but my first sister. And. they were by the truck and I saw him. like kiss her on her lips in a very. romantic way. and he touched her and. they both like looked at me and she. looked at me as like she got caught like. they were caught and my father yelled at. me and was like what are you doing what. are you doing here go back inside and. that's how I knew that's how I knew and.

then after that the next time was. since we only lived in one room so now. you know this is all during the moving. process and then we move into the house. since we lived in one room. Then one of. the times my father sent everybody out. and kept that sister there. So then. that's how that's how we knew. >> Yeah. Did you and your sister ever talk. about it at that time? >> I would not at the time.

>> Not at the time. And the relationship. with that sister that was strained. because she did not understand that any. attention my father was giving me was. not attention that I wanted. So what she. saw as. me being allowed to stay up late at. night, she didn't know that it was. because my father was molesting or me at. the time. So she became very jealous. She didn't understand that my father.

taking me places with him. She just saw. it as Aziza gets to go out and gets to. go with daddy all the time, but he was. taking me and abusing me in the car. So. when she learned that he was molesting. me, I think her immature mind thought, well, I want daddy's attention, too. So. she would do things like get undressed. and walk around him and sit on his lap. And I think that was her way of just. trying to get attention from him because. her understanding was, well, this is how.

you get attention from daddy using sex. or sexuality. So then by the time he started abusing. her, the her relationship with me was. more of a. now you're not the only special one. >> So there wasn't a conversation, but. there were definitely argue there were. definitely arguments. And then even as. we got older, there were more arguments. You know, she started blaming me for.

what happened to her. She started. thinking, "Oh, well, certain things that. happened was because I told my dad to do. it to her." And these this is because he. was telling her this. when my father. started molesting more of us. So then he. went to the next sister and then the. next sister and he molested five of us. in total. Four girls that were motherthered by my. mother and one that has a different. mother. And he would pin us against each.

other. So he would show favoritism, cause tension, tell each other that I'm. only doing this to you because so and so. told me to. And so he made sure that. there was always a divide between us so. that we would never get together and. rise up against him. >> And this all happened when you all of. y'all were teens. Yes. Right. >> Yes. >> Yeah. We were all teenagers. So you have.

your first child, your daughter. You. guys never take her to the hospital, get. a birth certificate, >> right? >> There's no neighbors. >> So, there were neighbors and my father. built privacy walls, >> so they never saw us. Um, he also he. also had a best friend. He did befriend. an East Orange police officer. >> that you guys stayed with briefly, right? >> Right. After the house burned down. But. before that happened, this police.

officer. was impressed by the work my father was. doing on the house. So that's how they. started talking and they became friends. But I always find it interesting that he. never questioned the fact that he had. all these teenage girls that didn't have. boyfriends. And then when I got. pregnant, my father did limit my. interaction. like I couldn't be around. people, but if I had to be because we. were working or I had to cook for then I.

had to wear really oversized clothes to. hide the fact that I was pregnant. So. this guy I don't even I don't think he. knew that I was pregnant. But then I. have the baby and then of course by the. time we have to move in with him he. doesn't question anything. So in my mind. he was not an option to tell. he could. not be an ally cuz he was my father's. best friend. So I find out later on. through.

my father's other friend because this. guy, this person actually died recently, passed away. He actually did suspect. something and said something to my. father's other friend. So I was like, "So all this time you. suspected, >> but then all you did was tell some other. friends and that's it.". >> Like it was gossip. >> Like it was gossip. And I learned also. that there was more family. Family that.

lived in East Orange that had seen me. seen me pregnant, suspected, had. conversations, gossiped, never said or. did anything. So, you know, these things. don't happen with people not knowing. anything. A lot of people see things and. they suspect they just don't do anything. about it. Can you tell us about your. dad's obsession with the pure bloodline? O. Um,

as I said before, my father was really. into African culture. and that extended back to African. royalty and connected to European. royalty. So, I don't believe he thought about this. before I got pregnant, but I think because he was such a. researcher, I mean, we had books upon. books upon books like everywhere. He was. always reading and watching a lot of.

National Geographic. I think that he made the connection. between what he saw as far as like Tuton. Common and Nefertiti and Cleopatra and. the fact that they imbred to keep the. bloodline pure. He used it to justify. what he was doing after I got pregnant. So after my daughter was born, she did. not have health defects that we could. see like his girlfriend said. That.

solidified it. Then his whole philosophy. was yes, he now has to continue to breed. me to create these special blueb blood. children that would repopulate the earth. after the human race was destroyed. and that he was ordained by God to do. that. I don't know if he believed that. himself or it was just a excuse to. justify. I I don't know. I never had. that conversation with him. But that is.

the philosophy. Then he continued and. then when he went further on in abusing. my sisters and then one sister got. pregnant that was the lecture constant. lecture like these royal blueb blood. children are going to repopulate the. earth. Nobody really believed it. Right. By that time it was not my priority to. believe it. I was desensitized. I was.

trying to make sure he did not touch my. daughter. I was trying to survive. throughout the day from getting punched. in the face or, you know, or worse. So, he was already threatening our lives if. we were to say anything. So, it was. really about just making it through the. day unscathed. Cuz I know that a lot of. people have very complicated emotions. and relationships with conceiving a. child through rape.

>> Did you ever have those complicated. feelings or No. >> No. No. I saw my baby. That was it. I. just saw her. I saw love. I saw a part. of me. So, no, I didn't. And sometimes I. feel mad cuz I get a lot of people. reaching out to me saying that, well, how can you look at her and not see the. trauma or how do you look at any of your. children and not see the trauma? And I'm. like, because I I set accept them for.

them as individuals. Yes. You know, thankfully I with my. first child, it was just innate. Like my. love for her as being her mom just came. immediately. though with my son, my third, not my. third pregnancy, it was actually my. fourth pregnancy cuz I lost a child. But. my third child, my father was physically abusive. So. that whole you being pregnant protected.

you went out the window with that. pregnancy. My father beat me, he. threatened me, he I mean one time he. beat me so bad that I blacked out. And. um that that was a very stressful. pregnancy. Why was it just like a time thing that. he just decided um I think there were a. couple of things that were happening by. then he lost his his standing in the. music industry in the video directed.

industry a lot of people in the industry. he started being black ballalled um he. wasn't getting much work so he had his. own stresses but then I did read. somewhere that you'll find more tension. between um a pregnant woman and the. father of her child if who she's. carrying is a boy because of the extra. testosterone. Apparently the father. picks that up and there's just more. tension between them. >> I don't know if that had anything to do.

with it, but my father's whole attitude. while I was pregnant with my son was. completely opposite of my other. pregnancies. So, so he delivered all my. four children that were fathered by him, three of them at home and the fourth one. actually on a beach in Florida. >> Oh, >> yeah. In a tent. So, I tried to take an. opportunity to get away. I was always. looking for some form of crack, you. know, in the structure. And my son, who.

was malnourished, woke up with seizures one morning. I. didn't know this. That's what they were. I thought he was like dying, coming back. to life. My father would not allow me to. go outside with him. This was the most I. had been isolated. And he also limited me feeding him. I. had to finish all of my work in the. house before I was allowed to feed my. son. >> Why? >> This was the new thing that my father.

adopted. My father would sometimes. target one person in the family and make. everyone else be against them. So I was. the person at the time. So after I had. my son, it was like my sisters didn't. really talk to me because if you were. caught talking to me, then you'd get in. trouble with daddy. So at some point, my. son gets very sick. He wakes up this one day. He starts. having seizures. My father was not home.

My brother convinced my mom to let him. take me to the me and the baby to the. hospital. We go and I was given all of. these forms that you know were this is. all new to me. But when I noticed that. they were asking for my son's father and. my father, I decided to take a risk and. put my father's name as both of them, hoping that that would be like, you. know, hey, I need help. So it did. It. raised a red flag, but not enough. My.

father comes back home, gets into the. hospital, curses out the medical unit, all the doctors, he starts telling them. how they're trying to experiment on his. son, all of this stuff. Threatens me, threatens the life of my siblings at. home. And eventually, social services. was called in. They take my children out. of my parents' custody,

>> but they leave my other siblings there. So now all of my children are in the. hospital with me. At the same time, my. father's still threatening me. He's. talking to the case worker as well. So. there's just like all of this confusion. Long story short, my kids end up in. foster care. It was a blessing in. disguise. My father rapes me again through all of. this. So the whole time, even though now.

it seems like I have access to somebody. that might help, unfortunately where we. were living, it was very racist and very. biased. So I tried to reach out for help. the best way that I could without. putting my father on, but my case worker. was not receptive. At the end of the day, my father is even. more abusive now. He's beaten me. I got. black eyes all the time. At the same. time, I had to adhere to these different. programs from social services to get my.

children back. Through that, I get. pregnant again. I'm close to now my due. date. End up in the hospital because it's. mandated by social services that I have. to get prenatal care. So, this is the. first time I've ever given prenatal. care. However, my father's taken me to. all of my visits. He's con still in. control. The abuse is still going on. There was one time he sends my sister to.

go with me and it turns out I'm in. labor. I don't know I'm in labor, of. course, cuz I don't have labor. My pains. are not bad at all. My sister saw me talking to the nurse. and I was getting ready to ask for help, tell her my situation. My father calls. and my sister tells my father that I was. about to tell the nurse what he'd been. doing. So, he decides to come and get me.

and says, "I'm going to take you away. from anybody, from any help that you. think that you can possibly get. I'm. taking you to another state and I'm. going to deliver the baby there. So. that's how we ended up in Florida on a. campsite and he delivered my child in a. tent. Thank God all of my births were. were safe. However, even though the births were safe, so two. of my children do have inborn arrays.

one had PKU and spinal muscular atrophy. and the other one has PKU phenyl. ketanoria which is a metabolic disorder. It's a recessive disorder where both. parents have to be the carrier of the. gene. So. um my second daughter had the condition. but of course we didn't know it. This. condition is screened when you give. birth in a hospital. you're given a PKU. test and they check the blood to see if. you have this disorder. But of course,

since she wasn't screened cuz my father. delivered her, she started showing the. signs of untreated PKU. We didn't know, of course, she broke out in rashes all. over her skin. She had developmental. delays. She actually does have some brain damage. due to it because she wasn't discovered. until she was 2 years old. But my father. said that the reason why she was.

breaking out is because my milk was. poison and my negative energy. So he. always blamed me. He always blamed me. And it wasn't until she went into foster. care and was tested at the hospital did. they find out. So now that when it gets. to the point that my my last daughter by. him, she started losing milestones. So. he delivered her, brought us back to. Jersey, all of the threats. And by this. time, there had been enough things in.

the family that he made good on some of. his threats in the past. So the mental. control was still there. I didn't feel. it was safe for me to reach out to. anybody for help. And eventually my. daughter, my youngest daughter started. losing milestones. She wasn't sitting. up. She wasn't crawling at the age she. should have been. And finally got her. tested all against, you know, my father. was just of course blaming me again. But.

then it turned out that she had the. spinal muscular atrophy and the. phenocetoria. So my birds were fine. Yes, my birds. were actually, thank God, safe and successful. No complications. But, you know, my children, two of my. children did have issues. >> I know that Coco passed. >> Your other daughter that has PKU, it. does that affect her life today?

>> It does. She has to stay on a special. diet for the rest of her life, a low. protein diet. So she's primarily vegan. and she has to drink a special formula. So even though she is not eating. protein, she still needs some of the. nutrients in protein. So the formula. provides her these other nutrients. And. because of the brain damage from when. she was younger, she does have some. other ch. You would never know that she.

has them, but there are some things that. she has to she copes with specifically. emotionally. Um, but she's she's an amazing young. lady. She's 28. >> Five pregnancies, >> a miscarriage, and you gave birth to. four beautiful children. >> Yes. >> Koko passed at 9 years old. >> She was nine. Yes. Yeah. >> Was that very difficult? >> Was it? Oh my gosh. And the anniversary.

of her death is coming up on October. 17th. Yeah. But I mean, she was a blessing in my. life. I mean, she was a blessing in all. of our lives because she. really taught us empathy and. I think an appreciation for life and our. abilities. because she she was disabled and she. depended on everyone else to help her. Um, I did everything I could to.

give her the best quality life as. possible. So, I I we drugg her. everywhere. I we did not go to the. movies without my baby. Um, but so it. was it was and I wasn't even home. I. wasn't even home. I had decided. to have a day trip with my sisters. We. went to Great Adventure. She was left. home with my mom and her nurse. And I.

got a call that she wasn't breathing. So, it was due to complications to her. spinal muscular atrophy. Um, however, you know, I I feel like I don't have. closure on that because. the. the medical the coroner medical examiner. >> medical examiner Yes. refused to do an. autopsy. They just labeled her as it was.

because of her condition. Um, but I. think the nurse was negligent. I think. the nur because when I came home, her. food was wasted all over the place. And. and I was on the phone at the time, her. and the nurse and my mom were panicking. and the nurse didn't know how to open. the oxygen tank. And this was after I. spent the day before with her making. sure she knew everything. So I'm like, I. don't know what happened. And the. nursing agency took all of the notes.

Like there was just a lot of. questionable things. So I feel like I'm. still working on. having a sense of closure for that. because I don't think I think that well. she wouldn't still be here with us. the. doctors. I felt like every couple of years they. gave me a new date. They didn't think. she was going to live past 2 years old. Then 2-year-old birthday, they told me. she wasn't going to live past 5. So, it.

was progressing. She made it all the way. to 9, which I'm thankful for, but I. think she would have made it a little. longer, you know, had had I stayed home. that day. And so, I carry a little guilt. about that. >> What was your favorite thing to do? watch scary movies, if you can believe. it. Yes, she loved to watch horror. movies. This one movie specifically. called The Messenger. And she would. actually be scared. Like you could see. it in her face. She'd be scared. But she.

loved to watch it. That and Justin. Bieber. She loved Justin Bieber. >> Yeah. Like join the club. But um yeah, that was pretty much. And of course be. her with mom. I was her favorite person. I was her favorite person. >> Was she always like the baby of the. family? >> She was, but she acted like she was the. oldest. She loved to give orders. Yeah, >> she definitely loved to give orders and. she just she expected everyone to be at.

her beck and call. >> I love that. >> So yeah. Yeah. She was the sweetest. thing. Oh my gosh. >> What is your relationship like with your. children? >> Intense. say that it's intense. It's loving. though. There's so much love between us. when we're all together. It's just so. much fun and and I have taught my kids. to speak open with me. So, communication. is a huge thing. We have family.

meetings. I love that. >> Go over what people's goals are. What. are they going to achieve in the next. year, week, what their plans are for. certain things. So, I think all of that. really contributes to our relationship. and um because. I know because my parents were so. silencing like we didn't have a voice in. my house. It was more like shut up and. listen. >> So, I I have definitely used my parents.

as what not to do in raising children. So I allow my kids to. oh my gosh sometimes even to a fault. challenge me like if they disagree with. something they do they can like ask me. question me about it. Sometimes it goes. on and on and on and on but like. sometimes I feel like they're just a. little kid saying but why but why but. why? But, you know, they're grown um or. even throughout their teenage years. But, but I think that that has.

contributed to how open and how close we. are as a family. And we do we we just. have a lot of fun. Like, game nights are. the best. Cooking is the best. Like, it's just so much fun when we all get. together watching movies, you know, doing things outside of the house. So, >> So, they were taken to foster care and. then how did you get them back? A lot of. work. A lot of work. Essentially, my kids. being taken away from me was was the.

push that I needed to then really get. away from my father because I knew I. could not bring them back to our life. So, my children were separated in foster. care for about a year and a half after. my case was moved from Mammoth County, which is where I had the very racist. experience to Essex County. and I got a. a case worker who was compassionate. They decided to work towards. reunification. and part of that was to find family to.

be my children's foster parents. So. everything came full circle. My maternal. grandmother and my aunts are who was. their foster parents. So they actually. ended up having their latter part of. their foster care living in the house. that I grew up in. It it was it was so. surreal. And that's how I reconnected. with that family as well. I was able to.

visit them. It took some time, but I. eventually was able to visit them on the. weekends. We rebonded then and then they. each came home a month apart. through. that, you know, the whole process with. social services, they have to do home. visits and check to make sure that I'm. taking them to their doctor's visits and. things like that. So then finally. 10 days before they went up for adoption. is when I got custody, full custody back.

for them. I felt like that I finally did. it. Now, it was through all of that. process is when I was able to completely. liberate myself from my father. And that. was because through the process of. working with social services, I learned. that I was being abused. I learned what. abuse was. I learned what pedophilia. was, domestic violence. Like, these were. all ideas that I had never considered. It was just my life. So now learning.

about it and learning that what was. happening to me was not supposed to. happen started to empower me. >> and I began to look for more ways to get. away from him. And I finally built up. the courage to tell someone who he. respected. And that person happened to. have some kind of connection with law. enforcement. um ended up taking my mom to report. domestic violence and got a restraining.

order against my father. So now that. process started, I was able to get my. children back. A couple of years after. that, my sisters and I went and reported. my father to the police. >> Is it a weird feeling when people. reference him as your father? Like do. you prefer if people call him by his. name or. >> No, it doesn't. And it's something. that's that's kind of a topic that gets. questioned me specifically because I do.

still refer to him as my father. >> I mean, I think it's your choice. I just. want to respect your choice. >> Right. I agree. But it's intentional. It. is intentional because if I called him. I've heard survivors call their abuser. their, you know, a sperm donor or. especially if it's a parent, they'll. they'll give them these other titles. But for me, especially because of the. work that I do, I feel that it's. important to recognize what his role was.

supposed to be and he was supposed to. protect me. He wasn't supposed to take. advantage of his role. So yes, I do. refer to him still as my father because. one, that's what he is. And two, it. highlights the severity of his actions, how heinous that his the things that he. did was because he was the person that. not only contributed, you know, to me. being here, but he was given the. responsibility of protecting me and he. completely exploited it.

>> Tell us about the day you leave. Escape, >> right? Yeah. I think Yeah, the day the. day that I escaped. So it was triggered. Now here I am. All of these ideas, all. of these things happening in my head. already told this person, this other. person who actually was his friend or. somebody that he really respected and. revered and was the first person he. allowed me to speak to outside of his. presence or anyone else's presence. So.

of course that opportunity came. I took. it. I begged this guy. I says, "Please. do not tell him. If there is a way that. you can help us without telling him, please, you know, can you do it?" This. is all happening with like in the space. of a week. My father was around my. younger sister and he was about to take. her into the room to rape her. She was. pregnant with his child already. And something just flipped in me between.

the information, between I had already. started taking steps to get us away. All. of these things just stirred something. in me and I went off. I just exploded on. him. I called him all kinds of names, called him an And I also looked. at my mom and because she was there and. I was like, "And how could you have let. this go on all of this time? You're no. better than him." And I just went off.

And then I took my sister into the. bedroom and locked the door. And by the. next morning, my dad was gone. And then. that's when the restraining order was. put in. And so he did not respond cuz he. was in shock. And I have learned now in. my studies that this can happen. You'll. have somebody that has been abused for. so long that essentially they just break. and then because the abuser is so used. to them being compliant and submissive.

when they see them now get to a point. where they are empowered or they're in. challenging their authority. They're in. shock. So that's that's what happened. And my father, he just sat down. He just. sat down. He said nothing. He looked at. my mom. My mom was dumb struck. I don't. know what conversation they had after I. took my sister and locked the room door, but I know that that was the last time I. saw him. Once I saw him in public um in.

Jersey City and then the next time I saw. him was when I was testifying against. him in court. >> How did your kids find out who their. biological father was? >> My oldest daughter was five. She was. raised calling my father daddy. So she. knew that was his father, her father, but she didn't know I was her sister. >> So now when she went into foster care, she was getting these mixed messages. The social worker, the case worker told. her that who she was calling daddy was.

really her grandfather. Still no. information on me. Then when she got to. my grandmother's house, my grandmother. reiterated, doubled down on it. This was. her grandfather. This was not her. father. When I got her back, by the time. I got her back, she was 9 years old. She kept asking me. She wanted to know. the story. I didn't feel that she was. mature enough to really handle. So, I. told her that I would tell her when she.

was a little older. She accepted it. She. still kind of bugged me every now and. then. She was like, "Oh, mommy, well, I. suspect this and I suspect that." I'm. like, "I'm neither confirming nor. denying." That happened when she was 13. and she came and asked me again. She was. like, "Well, am I old enough now?" And I. told her, I told her, she said that she. knew it. So I explained to her that the. entire dynamic, yes, who she now knows. as her grandfather is also her father.

and is also my father and that we were. sisters. And her words out of her mouth literally. was, "I knew it.". >> So, she had already put pieces together. I told her at that time, I still waited. to tell my other children. My daughter. and I, we spoke about it. Clearly, she. was angry, but she wasn't physically. upset, I guess, because it more felt. like a confirmation of what she had. already suspected, and she had come to. terms to certain with certain things by.

that time. But when I told my other children, they were upset. And the reason why I. told them was because it was after Koko. died created a lot of turmoil between me. and my sisters. And by that time, so many other things. had happened like my sisters slept with. my then at that by that time he was my. ex-husband. So, you know, our.

relationship was already strained. Some. of the negative seeds my dad planted had. kind of come out, sprouted out. So, there was just a lot going on by that. time. And my kids didn't understand why. They didn't understand why there was so. much arguing and so much blame and. fingers being pointed. So, I felt like. it was time to tell them. My daughter, Mono, my second daughter, she got very. emotional. Um my son, he didn't really say anything.

and he learned about it at the youngest. age. I believe he was only nine at the. time. He was either No, he couldn't have. been nine cuz Koko died so he had to be. about 11. And he just. internalized. He internalized. We've spoken about it. over time. Like I said, I have I my door. is open for my kids to ask me any. questions, any information. So, they.

know a lot of the details. They know the. emotional impacts. They understand the. trauma through the work that we do with. my organization. Of course, they are. like the number one people to go to. about that. They're experts about on. that. And um it just required then for. us to we had to intentionally heal. because the reality of it and how it has. affected our lives. I it's a lot it's a.

lot to deal with. How has it impacted. their lives in just in society? Because. I do think there is there's a lot of. stigma and shame that could come I guess. depending on the types of communities of. relationships. that involve incest. What has been their. impact. there? Believe it or not, their friends. have been really supportive. >> Yeah, their friends have been really. supportive once their friends knew. And.

their friends, my daughter, my oldest. daughter started telling her friends. before I became public about it. So she. had the support from them. My son, I am. hearing stuff now. We do do family. therapy and he'll come up with uh some. form like some kind of story or. experience where a girl because I'm. public and knows that he's a result of. incest told him that she wouldn't date. him because of that. But he has no.

problem getting girls. So he's like. that's like went right over his head. He. was like, "Oh, well you're lost." So. they're all very confident in their. position. My second daughter, she is. very much interested in the topic and. incest as it's practiced in different. cultures and she does talk to me about. it. So she's more cur curious in that. way. But none of them have experienced.

well except for this one incident from. my from my son with this girl. Um they. have not experienced any serious. blowback. My oldest daughter. will catch some comments under my videos. and she will go in. You tell us the. comment we will also go in. >> No they she will she will go in on. people. So their confidence levels. >> and they're they're very secure within.

themselves. They're very secure within. themselves. They don't feel any form of. shame because of it. Um they're just. they're just proud. Like they are who. they are. They're talented. They're. communicative. They are witty as hell. Their sense of humors are crazy. But um. yeah, they don't feel any form of shame. or or shyness because of it. You end up. escaping. Mhm. >> And then a few years later, you guys. turn your dad in,

>> right? And then there's a whole trial. that you have to testify in. >> Mhm. >> What was that like? It was. nerve-wracking. It was. >> It was scary. It was scary because I. knew I would have to see him again. >> Um, it was nerve-wracking because the. judicial system is not far from perfect. Oh my gosh, it's so far from perfect. My. experience with the detective was was. scary when we first reported and I had.

to. give him my account. It it was scary. And. then when we got to the stage that we. were. the prosecutor. judges were being assigned to the case, some of them was like, well, they why. did they wait so long? and incest is. legal in New Jersey. So, you know, so we. got a lot of that and it was like, uh, we got to wait for another judge because.

we can't have a judge that has bias. So, that process was strenuous. Uh, but our. pro the prosecutor, she was committed. She was dedicated. We had to prove a. lot. I had to prove that my father was. my father. I had to prove that my father. was also my kid's father. I had to prove. that he threatened my life. And then. because incest is legal in New Jersey, specifically after you turn 18, you're.

considered consent an adult. The only. way he could be charged with him abusing. me after I turned 18 was if it was under. violent circumstances. So he would have. to be now violently raping me for him to. be charged with any form of abuse. So. that was just a lot. At the same time, I. learned a lot. I learned a lot about the. system. I learned a lot about the. judicial system. So I'm grateful for. that because now I am working to. strengthen it to make it easier for.

other victims and survivors to report. But the day that I had to testify in. front of him, here I am thinking, "Oh, I'm this far on my healing journey. I'm. confident. I I have my kids back. I'm. working. I'm getting an education. I was. putting myself through college. As soon. as I saw him, all of that disappeared. >> How old were you? >> Um, by then I had to be 35.

Yeah. 34, 35. I reverted right back to. the little girl that I was afraid of. him. But I collected myself, you know, but I became very self-conscious of my. body. I don't think that I had fully. come to term with the idea that. what happened to me was not my fault. >> Me being in his presence, I started. looking at myself to make sure I didn't.

do anything that would, you know, trigger him or or arouse him in any way. But I took audit of myself. I after I. did the we had a preliminary testifying. It wasn't in front of a jury. It was. only in front of the lawyers and the. judge. So then the judge can decide. which questions are allowed and what. shouldn't be allowed. And after I. finished, I collected myself. I was able.

to like internalize, do a lot of. introspection. and get myself ready for the actual. my actual testimony. So, and even that that was strained. because of course the defense attorney. has to ask ask questions. >> What is the cross-examination like? What. will. >> it makes you feel so invalidated. because they're really trying hard to. make it look like that you're either. lying or you asked for it or why didn't.

you tell? So there were things that I. was testifying that only my father knew. about because he was the only person in. the room other than myself. And she. challenged every one of those things. She bas Yeah. Yes. Yes. He had a female. defense attorney. I mean, you know, that. was strategy. And I heard that he went. through two other lawyers. like two. other lawyers. They started the process. Once they started hearing what the. charges was and started hearing well.

started reading the reports that me and. my sisters gave to the detective, they. decided they couldn't they couldn't. continue represented him. But um he did. find someone that represented him. And. it was really strange sometimes in court. because. I saw him trying to do the seductive. thing that I'd seen him do with other. women. Like he'd get really close and. whispering in her ear and like giving.

her little touches and stuff and I was. like, "This is so creepy. This is so. creepy." Like this is his attorney. But. she she did her job. She did her job. Another part that was difficult was. seeing some of the jury members look. like they didn't believe me. That was tough. There was this one woman. specifically, every time I described. something, she rolled her eyes. Yeah, it was. So, I mean, you know, but.

I was determined. to have him be held accountable. So, I. powered through. The fear was there, but. I I did it because it really it needed. to be done. He needed to be held. accountable. >> So during this trial, your mom. receives no charges, likely because she. divorced him and was willing to testify. against him. >> I don't think she even divorced him yet. by then. It was because she was still.

married to him. >> and she waved her whatever right that is. for a spouse to not testify against for. a married person to not testify against. their spouse. So in exchange for her. rape waving that right. Um and she she. did she testified against him. Her. testifying was there some sort of. closure? Did you feel like she was. finally coming around or did you feel.

like it was advantageous to her. situation? >> Yeah. No. Um, it was definitely. advantageous for her, you know, and I. love my mom. I have to love her from. afar now. I cannot be around her. She. has not healed enough to for us to. interact, >> especially how she feels or how she. responds to my children. that started to. kind of surface again. Even after we got. away from my dad, she was treating my. children a lot differently from her.

other grandchildren. I believe her reasons for testifying was. well, there was a lot of selfishness. involved. I think that she was. protecting herself, but anybody would do. that. I am pretty much 100% sure of that. is because when the day for his. sentencing for the crimes he committed. against me, my mom went on a cruise. >> She was not there to support. >> on a cruise. >> Yeah, she went on a cruise and I was. like, "Mommy, are you serious?" So, I.

just think there is still a lot of guilt. that she has not dealt with and this is. her way by just not dealing with it to. avoid it. So, my relationship with her. is kind of non-existent. I see her every. now and then. I still communicate with. her cord cordially, but as far as being in a real. relationship with her, she's just not at. the place. She's not at the place. There's a lot of things that I think. that she has to come to terms with, take.

responsibility for that she just hasn't. yet. Do you think she should have been. charged? >> That's very hard. That is a very hard. question. I think I have different. reasons for why I would say yes, but I. also have different reasons for why I. would say no. My reasons why I would say. yes is because. at the time New Jersey law did not hold.

someone who witnessed abuse and did not. report it accountable. Right? That has. changed. I believe 2019 is when now they. changed it. And that has a negative. impact on people reporting. As I said. before, I found out later on there was a. lot of people that suspected saw things. and didn't report. But they can't they. could not have been held accountable. legally at the time. So I do think that. yes, she should have been held. accountable one as an example to other.

people. Like if you see something, you. suspect something, you should say. something. I think that it would have. contributed to the efficacy of the. system in general in protecting children. and in protecting abused people. At the. same time, I would not want her to be. charged because she was an abused woman. and she was severely abused. My father. severely abused her. And I don't think. that there are enough things in place to.

manage and support abused women, especially women that are abused in that. way and have children that have been. abused. So, you know, um, her life was. at risk. She feared for her life. Yes. Because I know her and I was there and I. witnessed and was on the receiving end. of her selfishness, I could say, well, no, she should have. been held accountable. But at the same.

time as a professional, someone in this. field, I think that she should have been. shown grace and if anything been. assigned some kind of counseling and. support services so that she could make. better decisions going forward. >> You started getting molested when you. were eight. >> Mhm. >> You finally testify when you're 35. How much of an impact do you think being.

black in America played in that? >> Um, a lot. I mean, one, my father used. that, right? He used that to. keep us oppressed. It's something to be. oppressed within a system of oppression. So he used the fact that we were black. and people on the outside, the things. that are put in the position to. supposedly protect everyone is not going. to protect us because we're black.

>> So there was the fear of, well, I'm being abused by my father. That's a devil that I know. But then if I try to get away from him, then there's this whole other devil that. I don't know that will abuse me as well. So he definitely used that. He educated. his family on the social issues that. black people face. That created a fear. of the outside world. It definitely did.

in me. I know it did in my mom. We felt. like we could not reach out for help. Then there is the gender dynamics and. gender biases. My father had friends. He. had a friend that was a police officer, but that was his friend. And if I mean. definitely for me, well, if my father is. doing this and this is how my father. treats women and this is how I was. raised. This is how women are supposed. to be treated. Every man is treating is.

treating women like this. I also heard. his conversations in the music industry. with all of his celebrity friends and. music professional, how they really. dehumanized women and over sexualized. and taken advantage of, you know, video. girls. And so all of those things, all. of these. social issues that we are facing today. definitely has a deep impact on the. smaller social systems which are.

families. And um I think abusers. definitely take advantage of that. >> And I know before Essex County, you had. really bad experiences talking to people. trying to get help. >> That was cuz you were black. Is that. something you think has been changing or. is that something that's still. >> We were in Mammoth County. >> I've only been there to go to the beach. So, I don't know what the social systems. are like personally. However, I have had.

women reach out to me and said it's the. same. >> and they've shared their experiences. with the systems down there specifically. dealing with domestic violence. They're. like, "Look, if you are black, if you. are a black woman, do not move to. Monmouth County." Now, that could be. taken as hearsay, but that's their. experiences that they've taken with me. So, I don't know. I don't think it's. changed very much, but I do think some. of that could be lack of education,

meaning a lack of education for the. social workers and the law enforcement. And because racism is it's so ingrained. in our society that I think even those. people that who aren't innately racist. because they are functioning within a. racist system, they automatically are. going to take advantage of the power. that racism gives them. So I think a lot. of those things still exist and that. could just take some education and some.

empathy in order for it to change. Being a victim of sex crimes in America. is already difficult. Do you think being. a victim who is also a person of color, does that add an extra level of. difficulty and getting your voice heard. in authorities taking you seriously? >> Yes, definitely. And I think it because. because it intersects with. how being a person of color, how people. of color are treated within the medical.

system and within law enforcement. So. because black women specifically, our. levels of we're expected to have a. higher tolerance for pain. >> Yeah. That is. >> right. So you have a woman who has. experienced domestic violence, her. injuries just aren't taken as seriously. just because of that alone. So because. the abuse intersects with all of these. other things and then with law. enforcement, if they're already.

discriminating against people of color. because we have been labeled as violent, right, then it's not so much of a of a. big deal. So all of those things play a. role. And that's why even when I do my. speaking engagement, we ha I have to. bring up the cultural sensitivities that. vary between different ethnicities and. different races and different. backgrounds. Even when you're dealing.

with a survivor, they may have things. within their culture, their religion. that will prevent them from addressing. certain things or saying certain things. or or being forthcoming with the. information. And um I think that the people that work. work within the systems that are. supposed to help support and protect. needs to be educated on all of these. little elements and nuances. >> Yeah. Did you feel like you got support. during testifying and during the trial?

Was. >> Yes, definitely. >> Okay, good. Definitely. Oh my gosh. >> Lisa Secretary, I tout her. Listen, she. that prosecutor from P County, but she. was the assistant prosecutor. She was. absolutely amazing. That whole. prosecutor's office, they were just they. were so supportive. >> And he was sentenced to 90 years. >> 90 years total. Have you gone to visit him? >> No, but I plan to. I started the process.

by reaching out to some of his family, >> his sister and his brother. I was told. that his brother is the only person on. his list. Apparently, he has to create a. list. >> to decide who can come and visit him, and I would have to go through his. brother to get me on the list. So that's. a work in process, but I'm going to do. it. And I'm going to do it for two. reasons. And it's something because the.

second reason I really just came to the. conclusion of. >> So the first reason is one, I want to. pick his brain. I want to get as much. information as far as his thinking, go. more in depth, like ask him questions if. he had been abused so I can get a clear. answer, not have to speculate. Um, as far as his different stages of. when he decided to escalate fromation to. rape, how did he come up with these. philosophies and these theories? I'd.

like to know if he is going to tell the. truth, if he's grown, is if he's. changed, and possibly get some. information. that would help to bolster my work and. create better programs that takes into. account how abusers think and and what. methods of operation that they use to. groom and and to victimize people. And. then the second reason, which is. something that.

through my own introspection I've kind. of come up with more recently, is that. I really am curious to see how I would. respond to him in that moment. kind of looking back on the time that I. saw him after years when I testified. against him and seeing how I did not. anticipate how I would respond. I would like to.

feel and experience. based on who I am now, where I have. grown to my life experiences, how would. I respond being in his presence? Will. there still be a little bit of fear. there? Um, would I trust myself in the. moment? Am I going to, you know, go. blank on my questions or can I really.

come go see him, do what I need to do, and then move on. So that Yeah, I I. definitely plan to go see him. I hope I. hope he doesn't die in prison yet before. I get that opportunity. Is there any. part of you that's scared. >> um of maybe just not even scared of him, but maybe like the scared comes from the. idea of being triggered back into. >> not that so much. I one thing I one.

thing I do know for a fact is that I. don't know everything. So I think I. would be just a more afraid if you want. to call it that of just the unknown of. something that I didn't anticipate. I. mean, even now, I don't think I have. been in enough social situations to tell. you for a fact that everything that I've. been through would not have an impact on. how I respond in that specific social. situation. I know that there's still a.

lot of things undiscovered by me just. because I've not been under those. circumstances to discover it. And I. think that this would be one of them. And I'm curious to see like I I've been. ghosted for the first time. >> Oh, you somebody ghosted me very. recently and I've only heard of it. >> Yeah, but I was like, damn, this hurt. >> That's crazy. They would ghost you. >> How could somebody do this to somebody? But, you know, so it's it's kind of like.

that. And it's like I just know there. are certain things and I have such a. fervor for experiences in life. Not that one. >> Not not negative ones, but um right not. that one. But but yeah, I'm really. curious on how I would respond like am I. as strong as I think I am kind of thing, you know? So that that and that's that's. a new that's a new reason. I have. decided that I want to see my father in. prison since he was sentenced because.

even at his sentencing, he was still. denying things. He was still denying it. He kept saying, "Aziza, you know the. truth." And I'm like, "Well, yeah. And. that's why you're here.". >> Years. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm just like, "Okay.". So, I would like an update. >> What are your feelings towards your. father? >> Well, one, I'm very disappointed in him. I don't know if that is strong enough.

but um he could have been so much and. and I don't discount his potential his. creativity. I know I have gotten a lot. of my kind of just do it perspective. from him. He was successful in in his craft and. his business up to a point. I think his. ego got the best of him and that kind of. messed things up. But he was doing very. good things. I am saddened that he took.

his life and made these decisions when. he could have made different decisions. and possibly helped and inspired a lot. of people. So I think that's like a. complete waste. Other than that, I feel. like emotionally. I don't feel any attachment to him. emotionally. I feel very indifferent. He's like another human, you know. Um, that's pretty much it. That's pretty. much it.

>> I mean, no one would blame you if you. had strong feelings of hatred. >> Mhm. >> But it seems like you don't have that. >> Um, I don't. >> I don't I think I think hate takes up a. lot of energy. One, now I can't say that. that's my conscious reason for not. hating him. I did have my rage, but it. was such a a lot of it happened during. the abuse. There were times I plotted.

killing my father. >> with a hammer, right? >> Yeah. Once with a hammer, another time. with a pillow. He was very sick. Um, and. that's just how angry I was. And that's. how much I wanted what he was doing to. me to stop. I was literally thinking of. committing murder, even beyond that, trying to poison his food. So I think. that this is the thing with long-term. abuse. You go through all of those. things at different stages, you know. So. I experienced all that. So by the time I. came to the end of it, so much of it was.

about my children creating a life for. them, healing myself, trying to enjoy life because I spent so. much of it suffering. and any anger that I had for him just. wasn't that important anymore. And. that's pretty much where where I've been. and how it has been. It's just not. important for me to be angry at him. But. I did experience the anger at different.

times. I know it probably plateaued that. time that I cursed him out because there. was so much stuff just came out, you. know, in my head. And I think if I. was a little more out of my mind at the. time, I probably would have physically. attacked him. But since then, yeah, no, I don't have any like moments of anger. Every now and then. when I have challenges with my kids, I.

think maybe I do get a little. that that would be the only thing. because sometimes. though I don't want to dwell on the. could a shouldas. I do I have to acknow like it's hard not. to acknowledge that my daughter would. not have PKU had she not been born as a. result of of this situation that my. daughter who passed away would didn't. have SMA because of it and any. challenges that.

my kids have the fact shoot the fact. that they don't have a father you know. and that they have to. deal with everything that comes along. with this situation. Yeah, that pisses me off sometimes. Um, but it's not like a personal direct. anger towards him. It's more just about. the situation. And I do know that if I. was to dwell on it, I would stay. I. would probably be miserable.

>> because there's nothing I can do to. change it at this point. So, I just do. what I can do to change it or stop it. from happening to other people. What is your relationship like with your. siblings, specifically your sisters who. also were abused? >> So, right now I'm only in communication. with one. >> They do blame me. Yeah, they do blame. me. I orchestrated. for us to have a group therapy session.

and I learned within that session that. they felt that had I fought my father. harder then they would not have been. abused. So they held me responsible and the. other was that my father did tell them. or had started this narrative that he. was abusing them because I told him to. So they was carrying that.

and that has just that affected our. relationship going forward. Um and it. got to the point that yeah no we don't. really speak. one sister I am still in. communication with. We actually have, you know, we're pretty we're pretty much. in touch. We go out, we hang out, we do. things, we talk on the phone. So, yeah. But, um, yeah, that's what it is. And. then I have some of my little, you know, little siblings that I speak to who have.

different moms because even that my. relationship or our relationship with. that mom also had an impact on our. relationship with each other. >> What are your kids' relationships with. your sister's kids that were. by your father? Cuz they're they're half. siblings but also cousins. >> Yes. >> Are they close? Do they have a. relationship? There's six of them, right? So, I have four and two of my.

sisters each have one. One is completely. disabled. He doesn't communicate. He he. has some very rare genetic disorder. So, he communicated with us and we were very. close. At one point, he even lived with. us. But since the communication between. my sister and I, his mom deteriorated, now I never we never see him. So they. don't communicate. And then my niece, she is involved.

>> I would say they definitely have more. sibling rivalries than like cousins. >> So So they did every now and then. they're arguing then they're best of. friends and they're arguing and they're. best of friends, but you know like she. volunteers with the organization and. everything. So, we're we're cool. I know. like there's a lot more information, but. I just need one little snippet of your. sister slept with your ex high school.

>> What? >> Yes. >> Which one? >> It was two of them. >> It was two of them. And um I do chalk it. up to one, we did not know what a. healthy relationship was, you know. Then. there is the fact that we was raised in. a polygamous lifestyle. >> Um yes my father wasing us and. everything was done against our will but. we had been conditioned to being with. the same man. That's how I rationalized. it. However, there had been enough time.

passed and I felt that we bel built up a. a good relationship with each other. I. also had the conversation with them like. okay guys we can't do this. We can't do. it. My man is my man. your man is your. man. You know, we laid all of that stuff. out. Then one day, my younger sister, um, she was actually the one that was a. baby when I first started being. molested. She comes to me crying, saying. how I have the perfect life.

Now, my husband and I, um, you know, we. had been together. I I think I was. pregnant at that time. Yeah, I was. pregnant with my youngest son. She's. crying how I have the perfect life and. blah blah blah. she wants my life and so. on and so forth. My baby was 5 months. old and my husband confessed that he had. been having an affair with that sister. before we even got married. Started. before we even get got married. Then. three years later, I found out that my. other sister also had an affair with.

him. And the only the reason why it came. out was because. the first sister was suspecting the. other sister. M. >> and they started arguing about it. >> and then that's why my husband, my. ex-husband decided to confess. So yeah, it was still a lot of drama. I was like, "Guys, can we just. there was a lot of healing that needed. to be done. I understand that." Um.

that's most of why I forgave them. Um I mean I'm no clearly I'm no longer. with him. I've not been with him for a. while and I definitely felt that my. relationship with my sisters was more. important to maintain. I I was not ready. to end my relationship with them over a. man who was not going to be around. anymore. So, you mentioned in an article. that when you go out with your kids,

sometimes people will ask you as a joke, "Are you guys siblings?". >> Yes. >> And you guys have a good little giggle. about it. What do you guys answer? What. is the response? >> Well, the the response is no, that's. these are my kids. Like, this is my mom. or my daughter. My daughter is usually. the one that responds. I reach my. oldest. She usually says, "No, that's my. mom." But we do, we always have we look. at each other like, "If they only knew. If they only knew." I just want to say.

after this I don't know how many hours. of. >> episode I just want to say you are. >> one of the best mother. >> I like when you walk in. >> it's like a bubble of compassion that. you walk in with. I don't even know how. to describe it. I just feel very safe. around you. >> really. >> And I and I'm usually very anxious. No, I don't even know how to put into.

words your energy. It's. >> your energy is crazy. >> Wow. >> Yeah. I Thank you for telling. >> Oh my gosh. And I think I mean I can. only imagine that your kids are amazing. Okay. So, they're all in their 20s now. >> My oldest is 31. >> Yeah. >> What are you guys What are your kids. doing? What are you focused on? >> So, I'm focused on Precious Little. Ladies Incorporated. Our mission is to. end sexual abuse, gender based violence,

and incestuous abuse. Um, all of my kids. are involved in that. They are all. involved in that. They, some of them, it's like an event basis, but others. just on a daily basis. My oldest is the. most involved. She loves to sing and. write. I think she's still trying to. find what she wants to do in life, so, you know, but that's up to her. She's. definitely a creative, but she's also an. introvert. So, and then Michelle, my.

second daughter, she also loves to. write. So, I guess they all took after. their mom that they they love to write. She also helps with the organization. And then my son, Aloba, he is a dancer. That's Mr. ASAP Rocky number two. But I. don't really see it. I don't see No, I. don't see the resemblance. That could. just be because he came for me. I don't. know. But I don't see the resemblance. >> I see. >> But yeah, everybody says, everybody says. and he definitely uses it. But he.

dances. Um and and I'm learning that he. actually has a pretty good s singing. voice. Sometimes him and Arish, my. oldest, will have these jam sessions and. he's harmonizing and stuff, but he wants. to get into acting, modeling, that kind. of thing. Right now, he just has, you. know, a job to pay the bills. And then. my youngest, who is my son for my. ex-husband, he um and it's funny like his role in.

all of this, he's so kind of back and. forth, but you would never know one that. they had different fathers because. they're just like they're just siblings. all the way. So there is no, oh, you're. a half sibling or anything like that. Uh. he is very active in his he's about to. go to college actually. But everyone is just very creative. They're just very creative and then they. support me which is a blessing. I did. not go out in public with my story.

without speaking to them about it first. I do checkins you know with them make. sure that they're okay with this. Right. now we are working on a larger project. more like documentaryish. and Loba is a natural at it. He. definitely loves the camera. He definitely loves the camera. Um what. else? I mean there's so there's there's. a lot going on. >> You wrote your first book well one and.

volume two and it sold out the print. copies on Amazon. >> Yes. >> Which is crazy. >> Yeah. And it's something it does that. every now and then. It's like and then. it's on the Amazon top best sellers list. and. >> but it's available on the Kindle version. and on your website the physical copy. >> Yes. So right anytime anybody it's sold. out on Amazon or not. You can just go to. my website aizaki.com. to get it. Um, I also have a podcast.

that chronicles the journey of me. writing my book cuz that has its own. drama. Like one of my sisters is the one. who started designing the book cover. Everybody agreed. Some people chose. their pseudo names and then suddenly. everybody was against it. So I talk. about things like that through the. process. Um, I also go into depth on. what testifying against my father was. like. So, there's that. It's called.

self-published, so you can find it. anywhere. Gosh. And then Precious Little Ladies is. precious little ladies.org. So, there's. a lot of information on prevention. And. then Aziza's law. So, as I talked about. incest being legal in New Jersey, I'm. working to change that. So what is the. opposition of not making it illegal? >> That's a very good question. >> because I I don't understand. Yeah. Some.

some people believe some legislators. believe that it may infringe on certain. religious belief systems, but New Jersey. is only one of two states. Mo 48 states. It's illegal across the board. So I'm. like, what what's the question? going on. in New Jersey. >> Yeah, >> right. That's what a lot of people. asked. I have yet to find out, but so. far it's been echoing that it could. infringe on some religious belief.

systems, but I'm pushing anyway. So, trying to. get as many people to reach out to their. legislators and even if you don't live. in the state, sign our petition on. change.org. Um because all of that having the public. encourage legislators that this needs to. be criminalized then will I'm I hope. would push them to do so. And there's so.

much information in your book that we. didn't even cover today. You have your. own YouTube channel. You have Tik Tok. >> Mhm. Yes, I do. See, I go where eyes. are. It's like, you know, I knew young. people who needed to hear my message and. and feel um feel like they weren't. alone. They were on Tik Tok. So, I went. to Tik Tok. And. >> how has that been like do you like it? >> I I do. Oh, I enjoy Tik Tok. I enjoy Tik. Tok. It's something cuz people tend to. compare Tik Tok to Instagram.

>> because they say Instagram you have to. be like rich and bougie and then Tik Tok. you can go on there with your bonnet. kind of thing. So, but we'll see. That's. where I do my my cooking live streams. with my kids on Tik Tok. Yeah, it's fun. Yeah. >> And you're working on a second book? >> Yes, I am. I am working on I guess you. can call it a self-help book. It's more. like a self-reflection. It's called The. Hump. And I use my life experiences as.

an anecdote on different ways people can. get over their hump and get as far along. as the on their healing journey as. possible. But not just dealing with. abuse. It could be any of any kind of. life challenges, whether it be the loss. of a job or the loss of a child or a. loved one. Just really getting over the. hump to then find your happiness and. thrive. Wow. >> Wow. >> That's beautiful. I would listen to a.

self-help book from you any day. I mean, just. >> And that's the thing. People have been. asking about Unashamed, making it an. audio book. I started recording on it. >> And your voice is good for an audio. book. >> Perfect, actually. So, yeah, I'm looking. to get that done by the beginning of. next year. >> Okay. Poetry. >> Oh, yes. >> What's going on there? >> Yeah. So I am my poetry man. Um.

so when I well one I love words. I just. love words. Like you can't put a word. in. I have read the covers of all of. these as all of these books have been t. as we've been talking. But when I get in. a really emotional state like I'm a. Virgo so I have pretty good control over. my emotions but there are sometimes they. get overwhelming and that usually comes. out in the form of poetry. I use it as. an outlet. So, anything from like. heartbreak, I mean, of course, when Coco. passed away, oh my gosh, I was writing. non-stop, but um a lot of challenges.

that I've had in relationships. Yes, I've already wrote a poem about being. ghosted, but I am going to publish it as a print. book, and audio book, and also an album. >> Oh, that's so I love that idea. >> Thank you. Yes. >> Oh my gosh. Okay. So, lots of exciting. things. >> We're going to be waiting. We're going. to be asking when they're coming. So, just I will let you know. I will I'll.

keep you updated. Thank you for having. me. It's been a pleasure. Am I? [Music].