“Gay for the Stay” & “Trains Run on Her”: Inside Mackenzie’s Prison Dating Life

Bada bing, bada boom. >> Some of the best advice you'll hear in. life is sometimes the most simple. advice. Don't go to prison. But. apparently not all advice is worth. taking and sometimes or like all the. time. It's completely unavoidable at. that point. But if you are to end up in. a prison, the Ohio reformatory for women. in Mary'sville, Ohio is probably one of. the better options. One reporter who's. been inside, she says it's more like a. college campus. And instead of housing. students, there's dorm rooms with women.

that are classified by their charges. You've got units. They call them. cottages. They don't even call it units. Cottages for the four lifers. They're in. there for life. You've got cottages for. the people that are coming in and out. They've got a lot of programs in the. reformatory that I have honestly not. seen being offered at other prisons or. even at like your local community. college. Communication and conflict. resolution are only part of this. 10-month transformative program. Horizon. graduates leave the reformatory with not.

only housing, but often employment as. well. You can get your GED, yes, but you. can also take lessons on how to properly. raise your child. You can help train. service dogs. One former resident, Cat, she says, "You actually have a lot of. freedom in there. There's a track. You've got a volleyball court, a. basketball court, a softball field, a. gym, you've got school. There's a lot of. buildings and you've got a lot of free. reign to kind of go into. If you're not.

doing that, you just go walk the tracks, sit on the yard. There's like tables or. you're watching TV on your bunk. You're. on the phone doing video visits. >> That's crazy. Wow. >> It sounds like a summer camp. >> Yeah. In the reformatory, they offer. three different yard time slots in. [music] a singular day. So, you've got. the first, second, and third yard. And. this is a lot. Like most people, they'll. maybe get yard time once a day. And. that's if they're really lucky. >> They have three yard time slots. One's. really early in the morning. The second.

is in the middle of the day, then. there's one at the very end of the day. Interestingly, it's not even as bad as. PE class in high school because you. can't opt out of that. You can. technically opt out of yard time in the. reformatory. If it's too hot, if it's. too cold, or for whatever reason you. just don't want to be outside, you can. opt to stay in your room. [music] A lot. of people will stay in their rooms. because they don't like the weather. outside. There's no point in going out. because when you come back in, there's. no AC in the building, so everybody's. sweating. They say it does get really. bad in the summers. Like, you'll stick.

to your bed in the summertime, but you. can buy fans in the commissary, but it's. that hot. Now, for some people though, it doesn't matter the weather. They're. going out for yard time because yard. time is game time. Residents, remember, there will always be a few girls out at. yard time who've got full face of makeup. on. They've got gems in their hair. Each. gem is like $15. You have to buy it. They have curled hair. You can get a. curling iron. They look like they're. going to the club. Just walking around.

yard time. It's like walking around. Rodeo Drive. Just walking. Walking. Yard. time is also, however, one of the few. times throughout the day that inmates. can be in the sun. So, I get it, right? It I mean, get fresh air. It's also. hugely psychologically beneficial. Plus, yard time serves as the main flow of. information between cottages. This is. very likely the place where people start. whispering about people they've met. inside, who just came into their. cottage, or sometimes they're whispering. about the show that they just saw cuz.

there's TVs in the common areas. And. there was this show that was playing on. there. It's like one of those. investigation discovery shows about a. true crime case. And they said one. episode was detailing how 17-year-old. McKenzie Sharilla drove a car into a. building at nearly 100 miles hour. killing her boyfriend Dom and their. friend DaVon. [music]. You know that case who also happens to. be their fellow inmate. The one that's. walking around looking like she's going. bar hopping with a full face of makeup. at yard time every single day. That one.

killed two people. And now one former. inmate says, "You know, she's actually. in the bathroom getting trains run on. her.". >> What? >> This is everything that has happened. since McKenzie Sharilla was imprisoned. Inmates have come out to talk about her. dating life, what she's been doing, and. if she's showing any remorse. And this. is going to be a full update on some of. her released jail calls, as well as her. new appeal.

We would like to thank today's sponsors. who have made it possible for Rotten. Mango to support Change the Game for Dom. Foundation and DaVon Flanigan's memorial. scholarship fund. Both GoFundMes are run. by the families of the victims and we're. going to include those plus all the.

information regarding Dom and Davon's. law which aims to update Ohio's Son of. Sam laws in order to prevent violent. offenders from profiting off their. crimes. It's going to be so pertinent in. this episode. You're going to see why. they want this to be introduced. All of. these are going to be included in our. show notes. This episode's partnerships. have also made it possible to support. Rotteno's team of dedicated researchers. We'd also like to thank you our. listeners for your continued support. As. always, full show notes are available at. rotteningodcast.com. Today's episode involves mentions of. illicit drug usage, reckless driving, driving while intoxicated, self-exit,

and possible domestic violence and. trafficking, as well as heavy. discussions of being in prison, as well. as um things that could occur in various. prisons throughout the country. We did. pull the FOIA for this case and we went. through tens of thousands of pages of. text messages, detective incident. reports, autopsy reports. We also. received like 90 jail phone calls that I. mean it was like 20 hours collectively. There's just a lot going on. So, we're. going to try to break it down. This is. actually part four of the five-part.

series. So, in part one, we went over. the crash itself and generally what. people believe happened that night. In. part two, we broke down the Netflix. documentary as well as we interviewed. Rosie and Bubba and asked them a lot of. questions that social media had. In part. three, we broke down the relationship as. well as covering internet rumors, conspiracy theories that people have. about Mackenzie's relationship with her. parents and whether or not people. believe that it played a role in all of. this. In this part, we're going to cover. the jail calls, the alleged prison. girlfriends, the trial, the appeal, and. in part five, we're going to break down.

the entire 31,000page document of text. messages between McKenzie and Dom. So, with that being said, let's get into it. I went down the rabbit hole of figuring. out whether or not Women's Prisons. really is similar to Orange is the New. Black TV show because that is what. everyone kept saying, like, "Is it. similar?" Some people on Reddit say it. is except the smell. Quote, "It was an. odd combo of BO, hot dog grease, and. really strong cleaning chemicals. Beyond. the smell, the best way to describe it. would be like living in a subway station.

in that everything has that grimy. feeling of having been touched by. thousands of people." One person says, "It's kind of like that, plus lots of. hooking up in the bathroom stalls and. showers." I mean, something really weird. was every few days they would pass. around electric shavers. There was one. for each [music] bunk, and there would. be a line of girls trying to use these. old shavers to dry shave their legs and. pubes in the bathroom. Some of them. would flip them and use the non-cutting. side as a pleasure object on other. people. It was so gross, I never.

even considered shaving. Another person. on the internet says the food is the. worst part. Yeah. One inmate says that. they were cleaning the meat grinder in. the kitchen because that was their job. And quote, "As they opened it, they. found about a million maggots inside. Basically, it hadn't been cleaned a lot. longer than people thought and the whole. prison had been eating maggot meat." So, >> oh my. >> And there's just lots of reports that. there's actually a lot of intimacy going. on in women's prisons. I'm not sure. exactly the word to be used here,

whether it be intimacy or not, but one. netizen says that one of the very first. things that they learned was how to make. a prison rose toy that is stationary, so. it doesn't pulsate, but it it's a. pleasure object. You get used to paper. rolls, like the empty part, the little. cardboard roll at the end, saran wrap, napkins, and rubber bands, and you can. make a pleasure object. They said it was. oddly, you know, more intimate than they. expected with quote gay for the stay.

being a widely used term. Yeah. >> Others note, they say that it's not as. dangerous per se as men's units where. the prison hierarchy is gang and. race-based. Whereas the women units are. well, one writes ton of drama and sex. The drama in the men's unit is usually. at a zero or a 10. Nothing ever in the. middle. The women's unit is a constant. six always. They say quote the. just walked around like they were in a.

high school dorm. Women's prison is like. a popularity thing. So it's really like. being in high school and McKenzie was. kind of popular in prison because she. had to be there in a long for a long. time. >> She is popular. >> Yeah. Cat says so like people who are. serving life sentences have like an. unspoken level of respect. like we. people are just coming in and getting. out. We're like renting an Airbnb and. they're the homeowners like landlord, you know what I mean? So, but even then,

Cat says at Ohio Reformatory, at least. when she was there, there were still. people who stood out. Like, they just. did so much. And McKenzie was that. McKenzie had this one best friend in. prison. And Cat says the two of them. would walk around the yard full glam. >> Okay, so I'm what I would consider like. a a girly girl. Like, I love makeup. I. love, you know, all that stuff. When I. was in prison, I think I did my makeup. like twice and that was for my release. photo ID and then we had some like.

festival sunflower festival come into. the prison and there was like music. stuff so it was like so I was like okay. we'll do it for then but every single. day no that's the last thing on my mind. >> So they have make regular makeup in. there or. >> Yeah. >> Oh okay. Another former resident, Cheyenne, says, >> "I would see girls do makeup, just not. to the extent that Kenzie took it. Like, they maybe do a little eye shadow, maybe. a little lip liner or something like. that. But Kenzie was like full face. done, going to the club, like makeup,

walking around time. She hit the yard, she not coming out without her hair. done. Like, she woke up at 6:00 in the. morning to get start getting her hair. ready, makeup ready, and stuff like. that." And I remember she told me cuz. she always wanted me to meet her at. first yard and it was at like 7 8 in the. morning and she's like I'll be up by 6. doing all this. >> Cheyenne has since come out on TikTok to. talk about all of this and she even. posted a picture stating I'm going to. show you guys what she looks like most. of the time. So this is what I mean by. that. And she inserts a picture of.

McKenzie in prison. >> Like what kind of photo? Like. >> a selfie. A selfie of McKenzie Sharilla. in prison. >> by herself. >> Yes. Now, people are like, "Oh my god, did she stick a phone up her butt? Like, did she pay a co like a correctional. officer to get this phone?" They have. these tablets that they do video calls. on and you can actually send pictures to. your loved ones. So, you can take. pictures like Yeah. >> Oh my god, that's crazy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so Cheyenne is. like, I'm going to show you what she. looks like. And the picture for my audio.

listeners is a picture of McKenzie, one. that has been widely circulating now. And she's just posing with the camera. And I will say that she has more makeup. on than I think I have on right now. So. it's definitely and that's not to be. like I don't even wear makeup. No, I. wear a lot of makeup. Like she's wearing. a lot of makeup. It's definitely not. just let me throw on some eyebrows and. curl my lashes and call it a day. This. is the type of makeup that I would do if. I'm going to like a birthday dinner. >> This is not just I got to go to the. grocery store and run some errands.

>> Yeah. She walked around like she knew. she was seeing like she knew she was. getting attention like she was that. girl. She would. wear makeup like full beat, full face, full everything every single day. >> In prison, or at least this prison, [music] you can also buy exclusive. clothing. And apparently a Nike hoodie. could go for like $3 $400 because it's. prison. [music] They're not going to. make it affordable. And Cheyenne says. that McKenzie had everything she wanted. That girl had a TV. That girl had, like.

I said, the gems. [music]. She had exclusive pink shirt, painted on. shoes that she got that did. They had. like four or five pairs of shoes, >> altered clothes, flat iron, a curling. iron, all of that. >> Cheyenne says you pay $15 each for one. of those gems in her hair. And in the. picture that Cheyenne, it's literally. like when you're 5 years old and you. throw a giant bedazzled gem. Okay, you. can actually like it's actually cute as. an adult, too. But it's just not worth. $15 a piece.

>> And she has a lot of those. >> She's in that picture. She has like. four. >> That is so what? >> And these are things they sell in the. prison. >> I think some of them you have to get. from other cottages. Like for example, the waist trainer. Cheyenne is like, I. don't know how she got the waist. trainer, but Cheyenne speculates that. it's from the pregnancy cottage. So they. have a cottage for all the pregnant. women and they might give you waist. trainers or you can maybe purchase them. And so she's thinking because it's from. the pregnancy cottage, it's probably. going to cost Mackenzie like $150 for a.

very basic waist trainer. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so basically the. parents are funding her spendings, right? >> Yes. >> Wow. >> She's wearing all of that. And according. to Cheyenne, McKenzie is doing line. dancing every night. She's going to go. learn dancing every night. And she's. just in one of the best cottages of the. facility. >> So I asked her what cottage she lived. in. She was like, "Wheeler." That's. crazy. Like Wheeler has like flat. screens, couch, actual couches, rooms that you can close your door.

because it was like a open open prison. So you just had bunks everywhere. Like. little cubicles of bunks open like. anybody could walk in there. But Wheeler. wasn't like that. >> Other cottages, it's just like bunks out. in the open. >> Yeah. >> Wheeler, it's like a dorm. You can close. the door to your room. >> Yeah. Yeah. But how does she end up. there? Is it just by luck, by chance? >> Usually it's for the for lifers. >> Oh, okay. Yeah, Cat says the widely. circulating comparison online about. McKenzie is pretty accurate. I do say. that she wanted to be like Regina.

George. I mean, just the way that she. did her makeup, the way that she I mean, it was like she was going out to a club. or something or going she thought she. was going to be famous or photographed. She would wear her clothes altered so. they would be form fitting. and she. would make fun of people who had less. than she did because she was well taken. care of inside [music] prison. >> Her [clears throat] mom was super like. kind of made it like a cupcake camp for. her in there. Like very cushiony. She.

had everything like that we could have. and more in prison. [music]. >> Yeah. They said that Mackenzie would go. behind people who are bigger in size. than her and like mock them about their. size by doing hand gestures like this. behind them in the yard. But one of the. more enlightening things to come out of. all of this is stories of McKenzie in. prison that she has quote gone gay for. this day and has been having trains run. on her in the bathroom. That's the exact. verbiage that people have been using. I'm actually not even entirely sure what.

that means. I mean, I am to some degree. familiar with what it means to have a. train run on somebody, but I'm not sure. in this context in the prison cont. Cheyenne says there's just so much. dating drama inside of Ohio reformatory. >> Girls always have a new girlfriend in. there. Like every other day, like. somebody with somebody's ex every day. This girl was talking to this girl every. day. It's just how it goes down in there. cuz it's boring. You don't have anything. to do in there. So you just fill your. time with anything [music] honestly. >> Which is kind of how Cheyenne starts.

dating McKenzie. Okay? Or at least that's what Cheyenne. says. Now to fully understand this, let. me break it down. According to internet. rumors and former inmates who have come. out to talk about knowing McKenzie in. prison, which you know, side note, many. of them actually have been coming out. before the Netflix documentary to share. their story. So, it doesn't seem like. these people are just coming out now. because the case has gone viral again. and wanting to get TikTok famous. They've been talking about it for a. while. >> McKenzie. >> Yeah. So, to break it down, according to. Cheyenne, McKenzie has this best best.

friend in prison named Jasmine. These. are the two that walk the yard. Gems in. their hair, full makeup, her and. Jasmine. Okay. Jasmine, it did a lot for Mackenzie. Apparently, McKenzie was allegedly making hooch. alcohol in prison and a co came in, found it. Jasmine took the fall because. McKenzie had an appeal coming up. So, Jasmine wanted to take the fall for it. Anyway, McKenzie is besties with. Jasmine. Jasmine is dating another. inmate by the name of Juice who has also.

come out and has started making videos. about this. So Jasmine and Juice are. dating and Juice is really close friends. with Cheyenne and near the end of. Cheyenne's stay, Juice comes up to her. and is like, "Hey, McKenzie thought you. were cute since you first popped out. She already has like a little nickname. for you. She calls you Fro." So Cheyenne. was like, "When I was in prison, I had. this huge fro because you know there's. not like you can't really get your hair. done, right?". >> [music]. >> And Cheyenne's like, I'm like, "All. right, bet." And she was like, "Well, McKenzie said she wanted you to meet her. on the next yard." So Juice is like,

"She McKenzie thinks you're cute. Wants. to meet you at the yard. She's got a. nickname for you. She calls you Fro.". Cheyenne says she never really felt. inclined to talk to McKenzie ever. because she just gives off full Regina. George vibes, just mean girl radiating. off of her. But now she's intrigued. She. she's also she admits bored out of her. freaking mind. Just like losing her. mind, going bonkers in there. Okay, so. this is like the most exciting thing. that could happen. >> I go outside to hit the yard. I see her. and Jasmine immediately walking cuz.

they're always out there. You can always. spot them. And I walked up like, "Hey, what's up?" And she's like, "What's up?". Like, and I I kid you not, the first. thing she says to me is, "You're top. three on my hottest people on the farm. list.". >> I guess she calls it the farm. Apparently, they hit it off. Okay, Cheyenne is asking McKenzie if they want. to grab dinner, which sounds [laughter]. like I mean, clearly it's rough in. there. Like Cheyenne and Cat have come. out to say like it does get rough in. there. Like they're making it sound like. a walk in the park, but it's really.

depressing. It's really rough. Like you. lose sense of agency. I get it. But also. like it's not as rough as one might. imagine. Like I watched Prison Break and. like do you want to grab dinner? Doesn't. really resonate with Prison Break. Do. you get what I'm saying? Do I think. prisons need to be tougher? No. I'm. actually for prison reform. You Anyway, McKenzie is looking at Cheyenne like. she's crazy. >> So, the yard's about to close. So, I'm. like, "You guys are going to go to. dinner." And like Mackenzie just looks. at me crazy. Like I just asked her like. something she's never heard or in a. foreign language. And she's like, "No, I.

don't eat the prison food. I would never. eat the prison food." And I was like, "Okay." And she's like, "Yeah, I cook. every single day. Like every single day. I cook.". >> Mackenzie cooks. >> Yeah. Cheyenne says cook. >> Yeah, exactly. Cheyenne's like thinking. about it and she's going through it and. she's like, "That's actually a lot of. money." Okay, so Cheyenne's breaking it. down and she says, quote, >> "Everything's cheap in prison, but you. have to buy every single thing to make a. meal." Like say if you want to buy a. pizza, you got to buy wraps to make the. crust. You got to make pepperonis. You.

got to buy pizza sauce. You got to buy. cheese. You got to buy a shredder for. the cheese. So like cooking every single. day with your commissary like would be a. lot because you only get a certain. amount of commissary in there for like a. certain time period. So cooking every. day, you probably run out within like 3. 4 days. But that's like a lot to do, especially every day cuz like I said, you can cook it in a microwave. So you. have to make everything separately. You. have to get a microwave spot, which is. like, like I said, 200 girls and like. one cottage and there's only two.

microwaves. So you have to get a spot. like every day. Go out there, prep for. that spot, be ready. If you run out of. time, you you're out of that microwave. You can't finish the food. So you really. have to be prepared for it. So, it's. really a lot. >> Anyway, the two of them start talking, flirting. Okay. And when they would hang. out, Cheyenne says she noticed a few. things about McKenzie that she's now. sharing. One is that Mackenzie kind of. seemed amused at the idea that some. people call her Sherilla the killer. >> So, okay, back to your intro. You were. saying that everyone saw this. documentary in the prison.

>> They saw an ID investigation discovery. episode. >> Oh, yeah. That is. >> so they say it's kind of interesting. because when you first meet someone in. prison, you ask them for their charges, right? And then they like and do I think. this happens? Absolutely. I think the. criminal justice system in America is. completely forked. But everyone in. prison is innocent, you know, most of. the time, right? Everyone is innocent. And so what happens, Cheyenne was. explaining that you learn about. someone's charges and then if you want.

to befriend them, you go and you call. your mom and you're like, "You got to. Google this person and see if their. charges match up. >> to what's happening." Right? So people. know that m people probably have a vague. idea of Mackenzie Sharilla's crimes and. they probably hear her side of the story. of like, "Oh my god, it was pot.". And then they see Investigation. Discovery on the show and they're like, "Wait, >> what? That That's Sharillaa the killer. culture. >> Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. >> Interesting. >> And Mackenzie doesn't hate the nickname.

McKenzie apparently told Cheyenne, just. like dead pan, not even offended. Yeah. People call me Sharilla the killer. Just. like what? And it seems like Mackenzie. really really believes she's going home. sooner rather than later because. Cheyenne says. >> she was told me how she was working on. an appeal. She's going home like she's. going to be home. How me and her were. going to talk when we got home. We're. going to continue this outside when she. came when she [clears throat] got home. >> So, she's getting life without parole. with. >> uh Cheyenne or Mackenzie. >> Mackenzie.

>> 15 years. She's eligible for parole in. 15 years, but most likely it's going to. be highly highly unlikely that she's. going to get parole in 15 years. >> Okay. Based on. >> based on like typically if you're in 15. to life, it's really hard to get parole, especially for killing people. And then. um it seems from what I know and from. what I've heard that Dom and DaVon's. family members are going to be there at. every single parole hearing and they. will take that into account. Also on top. of that, she has like 36 misconduct.

records in prison right now. >> and that also gets factored into parole. >> 36. like are we are you going to talk about. >> Yeah, but most of it is like not being. in her room like being in the wrong. rooms, wrong areas, right? cuz Cheyenne. kind of insinuates that's what happens. when you're dating people. And then also. just having contraband and most of the. contraband is like altered clothing, shoes that she's not supposed to have. >> Yeah. >> Fascinating. Wow.

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> 36 is pretty wild. >> That's a lot. >> For how many years? That's like one a. month. >> Yeah. Cheyenne says in a Tik Tok and. then she was showing me her scars and. she wanted me to like touch them. And I. kid y'all not, no bull crap. When I. touched them, a chill literally ran. through my body. Like my hair stood up, back of my neck, arms, everything. It. just I don't know. Something felt weird. and off. So I kind of like pull my hand.

back a little bit and she's like, "What? What's wrong? You don't think I'm pretty. with all my scars? Is it nasty to you? Do I look disgusting?" I'm like, "No, it's just kind of like chilling and. shocking seeing all this." Then McKenzie. looked me dead in my eyes, y'all. Dead. in my eyes. And said, "Thank God nothing. happened to my face cuz I still want to. be a model when I get out of here.". >> Another interesting fact with this is. Juice, remember Juice? Cheyenne's friend. dating Jasmine? Juice says in a Tik Tok,

>> her mom literally still goes out and. buys everything and anything that Kinsey. would like. That way when she gets out. one day, she'll go home and come home to. a whole bunch of stuff. >> Yeah. Apparently, her mom goes out and. buys stuff and like puts it in her room. >> This is unbelievable. >> And this seems to be a very consistent. thing. People have been saying that. Mackenzie acts like she's getting out. soon. Cat says. >> Mackenzie walked around like she was. going to get out soon, like she had no. worries. I'm sorry if I just got a life. sentence. Girl, I'm stressed. No,

couldn't tell. Walked around with her. head held high. Would cut her little. crop tops. would walk around with. hickeys on her neck cuz that's just what. girls do. They get in there and go gay. for this day, whatever. Living in a. fantasy world, like still striving to be. that it girl in prison that got her to. be in this position in the first place. Like influencer, all that, but like baby. girl, those days are gone. I told you. she walked around like she always like. she was getting out. Well, it is what it. is. Like it's up. But she did not. walk around remorseful. She walked.

around like she was still in the free. world or like still in high school. And. she was a mean girl. Like you could see. she looked down on other people, like. laughed at people, would talk about. people, which at the end of the day, no. one really in there gave a because. we're looking at her like, you're. laughing and looking down at people, but. you're going to be in here for the rest. of your life and we're getting out and. going home. >> And the girl that I saw didn't look sad, didn't look depressed, was very almost, like I said, happy golucky. Like didn't.

even seem like she realized she was. sitting in prison. But she is sitting in. prison. She is, which is exactly why we. have so many jail calls. At the. beginning of each call, it says in an. automated tone, "This call is not. private. It will be recorded and may be. monitored. If you believe this should be. a private call, please hang up and. follow facility instructions to register. this number as a private number. To. accept charges and thank you for using. Securus, you may start the conversation. now.". >> Also, you can't just like get private.

phone calls. Typically, that's reserved. for attorney client privilege. >> So, it's not like, "Oh, I just feel like. this should be private." No, it's not. going to be. >> There's a lot of normal conversations. that you would expect from someone in. jail. McKenzie is telling her mom all. the things she's been doing. She's been. making oatmeal in her room. >> I think I'm going to make some oatmeal. when I go in my room. I get to see all. day. >> How many packets of oatmeal do you have? >> I have three. I don't know if I should. order more commentary or not. I think. after I get off the phone with you, I'm. going to go order some. >> Just order it. She says she's reading.

all the Harry Potter books and all she. does is eat. There's not really much. else to do. Her literary review of the. first book in the Harry Potter series is. quote good as. >> I don't know. I'm not even going to. sleep for now and I'm almost done with. this book. It's getting good as I. want to keep reading it so bad, but like. I have to wait. >> She says, >> and it's crazy cuz I remember being in. elementary school and being like, damn, these Harry Potter books big as. Like who the them? Now I'm reading them. [snorts]. Oh, and her hair is getting softer. She.

says it smells good now. She says the. showers are so foul. And she had this. moment, she said, where she dropped the. soap. >> I dropped the soap in the shower. And I. was like, "Oh no, it's only it's a one. person shower. It's only a one person. shower." But I still get scared, >> right? I was like, "Oh no, >> oh no, not the soap." And I picked it up. real quick and I like looked around. >> They start talking about how people are. so weird about being naked here in the. US, but in Italy it's fine. Which makes. McKenzie announce to her mom that she. wants to live in Italy. Yeah.

>> Okay. >> And what the mom says? >> Mom is like yeah. And it's like when I. mean I want to live in Italy. What do. you mean? >> I want to live in Italy. >> Right. >> In another call, Mackenzie says she. doesn't want to shower because quote. >> because like I'm cute and little. I. don't want them to see me. >> Which somehow segus to Natalie asking. about Mackenzie's butt. And McKenzie. informs her, "Oh my god, they're going. away. I don't know what's going away. >> How's your butt? >> Oh my god, they're going away. But I. have a pimple like right on my bone. My.

butt bone. >> So, just like lots of very casual. conversations. In another call, she's. talking about how long her hair is. getting. She says, >> "My hair is so long. I could braid it if. I wanted to. >> You should braid it.". >> This is Natalie's tone for everything. Oh, yeah. You should braid it. Oh, yeah. You should eat. Well, that's good. Yeah, you should braid it. >> I'm not talking about my hair on my. head. Oh, >> talking about my leg and my coochie and. my armpits actually, but I'm mainly. talking about my legs, >> right? >> And it's so like weird. I mean, even if.

that is what's happening, I just can't. imagine telling my mom. >> Yeah. >> that my hair down there is getting so. long I could braid it. >> It's an odd conversation. In another. call, she mentions how she's scared to. shower because. >> this is really orange and black and I'm. like the prettiest person here. Like, I. feel bad even saying that. There is a lot of moments, however, in. these calls where it just feels like. McKenzie and Natalie and a lot of these. conversations, most of them are with. Natalie. It feels like they're out of. touch with reality and what the they.

can't grasp what the reality of their. situation is. There's one moment where. Mackenzie and her mom are talking about. a friend of McKenzie's and Mackenzie. says, "Oh my god, why would she go to. jail again? What is wrong with her? She's bad as Like badass little. kid. >> She needs me. She needs me as a friend. I'll keep her out of jail.". >> Yep. What is happening? This is a. recorded phone call from jail. How can. you keep her out of jail? You're on. trial for murder. >> She says she wants to start a business. when she gets out and says, >> "I just hope like my like life isn't.

taken from me.". >> She also talks about how someone in jail. is allergic to lash glue just like her. And she found this hack of using wig. glue and Mackenzie is like, "When I get. out and I go home and I do my own. lashes, I'm going to use wig glue. >> When I get home, I'm going to do my own. >> Oh, interesting. own eyelashes and use. wig glue. >> She has a lot of hopes of getting out. She says to a friend, "Yeah, when I go. home, I think I'm going to get a job, which like okay, probably should." [laughter]. >> Okay. >> Yeah. I want to be like either a social. media manager or I'm going to be like a.

life coach or I'm going to keep going to. school to be a nutritionist and like I. want to help people eat healthy. When I. get out of here, I'm going back to. eating healthy though. But. >> yeah, I don't know if McKenzie knows. much about eating healthy. In one phone. call, her mom is making a smoothie with. baby spinach. And McKenzie says, >> "Well, it's baby spinach, so it's bad. for you.". >> Wait, why? >> Because it's a baby. What the Baby. spinach. >> It's young tiny spinach. >> Yes, it's genetically modified.

>> But it's organic. >> Which, side note, this is not true. Baby. spinach is not genetically modified. But. McKenzie continues arguing. >> Organic doesn't always mean good though. You have. >> non GMO. No, >> it doesn't. >> I don't believe that. That's a lot. >> In another phone call with her mom, she. says, "When I go home, this is my plan.". >> So, first, obviously, like I'm staying. with you guys as long as possible, but. while I stay with you guys, I'm going to. start saving that money and I'm going to. try to like move like out of. Strongsville. Like, I want to move like. somewhere with a lot of land and I'm.

going to a little house, but I'm going. to make it. >> Of course you are. >> Be super cute. >> I don't want a big house. I want like a. little house that's nice on the inside. So, I can have a lot of nice things, but. I don't want a big ass house. >> She says, "Do you know what I kind of. want to do when I go home? I want to do. a DNA test. But then I don't want the. government to have my DNA." Girl, the. government has your freedom. I think you. kind of have to eat the frog on this. one. Like, you've got bigger fish to. fry. Your house is on fire. And you're. talking about saving the curtains.

Nevertheless, she continues, "That's why. I kind of wanted to take one, but then I. decided I don't know if I want to take. one because then I don't want the. government to have my DNA.". >> Yeah, I know. That is why I don't do it. either. >> Cuz they can do whatever they want with. it and I don't want to like be like on a. list or some I don't want them to. have my I mean, they can have my. fingerprints. I don't give a My. fingerprints. >> You are on a list. You're on a pretty. detailed list of incarcerated. individuals. The government seems very. familiar with McKenzie. Even if we're. just judging by the FOIA file, the. government gave me extensive information.

about you. I think they know who you. are. I think they know what you're. doing. I think they know where you are, what you eat, what you read. They know. to some degree what you're even talking. about on the phone. And while I do agree. the government is not to be trusted with. their increasing oversight on their. citizens, you're literally incarcerated. I don't know why this logic annoys me so. much. In one jail call, this is while. Mackenzie is on trial for murder. So. like the trial is happening and she's. having these phone calls and Mackenzie. is giggling to her mom about a message. that one of her friends sent cuz So.

Mackenzie's trial was not live streamed. It was a bench trial. It lasted about. approximately 8 days and there were. parts of it that were recorded but it. was not like fully live streamed from. start to finish and she's reading the. message and she says. >> also bro your ass has gotten so big like. I watched the live stream and when you. walked in I was like damn Jay said the. same thing and you look really good. >> Everybody's saying you got a bumping. little booty now everybody. >> Oh my god. >> I do work out and like my butt got fat.

as Like I don't even know how to. like I can't even tell you. Like. everyone always tell me my butt fat as. And like my butt was cute and. little before, but now it's fat and. cute. >> In another conversation, Natalie. mentions there's going to be a podcast. about this case tonight on somebody's, you [music] know, thing. Kenzie, it's. insane. >> What do you mean it's going to be on? >> Insane. Somebody's going to be talking. about it on their podcast. Everybody's. just looking for their five minutes of. fame. How many likes can they get? >> I think that's why this is so popular. because. >> it's a mystery. But it's not. It is. You.

know what I mean? >> Natalie keeps encouraging McKenzie. Write your book. Start writing your. book. You start writing your book. Okay. >> Write your book. Start writing your. book. You see what I'm saying? >> In that same exact conversation, McKenzie asks her mom, "How do you spell. eventually?" And her mom stops halfway. She's like, "E V E." And then she's. like, "Hold on, I got to type it out. Maybe neither of them should ever write. books. Maybe they should read a book.

first, but it appears if not books, maybe modeling. McKenzie says, "I have. this feeling that something's going to. happen with all these people reaching. out." So, she's getting a lot of weird. guys reaching out and producers reaching. out, producers probably trying to get. her for a documentary, and then guys. probably lying, saying they're producers. just to get in contact with her. But. there are a lot of people who reach out. to inmates that they deem pretty creepy. guys. >> But she is like, "This must mean. something." Like you remember that one. guy who got arrested for murder and he. became like a model because he was just.

like everyone was like loving his mug. shot. >> So she thinks something's going to. happen. and Natalie is like yeah and these men. you know these people are paying money. to talk to you cuz you have to buy. stamps to send letters and Mackenzie. says as they should. >> What is happening? >> Yeah, but Natalie Yeah. No, I was losing. my mind. There were so many times he was. like are you okay babe? The mom and the. McKenzie both are kikiing over. >> Yes. Hypothetical imaginary scenarios. that will never happen and they're.

kikiing over it. And it's like. >> and then giving the context of what's. going on. This is not real for the mom. to say, "No, these men are paying money. to talk to you.". >> What? >> Yeah. Natalie keeps encouraging McKenzie. to write her book cuz quote, "Start. writing your book. Nobody can like twist. or use things your feelings that you say. in a weird way to fit their growth. narrative kind of thing." In another. call, Mackenzie is ranting. >> Yes, that is just irritating as. they're acting like I killed like 85. people. Like, I didn't kill nobody. >> And while all this is happening, Natalie.

encourages her. Save the world. >> While you're there, go to school, right? Do what you got to do. You know, maybe. you should go into freaking law school. and fix the system cuz what the. this? >> I don't want to do math and stuff like. that, though. I don't think that that's. involved with. >> I would, but like I don't know if I want. to like take the time to do it because. it's like a lot of work, >> but you have time, right? And you are an. amazing arguer. You know what I mean?

Cuz you you're based on facts and you. tell people what it is and you don't. stop. People need that. Think of how you. defend people that have been wronged, Kenzie. They need you. But one. particular jail call that has been going. viral is of Natalie telling McKenzie. >> Kenzie H. >> It's on the Today Show. >> What? >> Girl, I'm telling you they're about to. get ready for the biggest plot twist of. the century, right? >> What? What did they say about me?

>> No, no, no. It's not on the TV. It's. just online and they're just reposting. the story. But that's okay. That's okay, right? That's all right. Plot twist, Right. [laughter] Write your. book. Start writing your book. You hear. what I'm saying? >> What plot twist? >> That she is not guilty or whatever, right? >> Oh, >> yeah. >> So, wait, it's all over the world now. that today's show is like national news. >> Okay, I got to tell you one more thing. >> What? >> It was published in England.

>> Okay. >> What? >> Yes. It's world news. >> [laughter]. >> I think the Daily Mail just publishes it. in all their publications. But yeah, the. UK. >> Wait, the mom is so excited right now. >> Yeah. >> Like so excited. >> Yeah. >> McKenzie's case is international news. >> Yeah. >> And she's so excited. >> They're giggling. >> They're like, "Wow.". >> Yeah. >> Um but we are famous. >> Yeah. >> It's on the Daily Mail.

>> in UK. >> Maybe Kim Kardashian will reach out. herself. >> That's what I'm saying. I'm hoping. I'm. hoping. We're getting there. I was going. to do this anyway, so this is great. [laughter]. >> And they could just [clears throat]. reach out to us. >> Mhm. >> McKenzie then relays this information to. a friend. Okay. She's relaying the good. news. >> My mom was like, "Well, maybe Kim. Kardashian seen." And I was like, "I. hope.". >> Yeah. Maybe Kim will now that it's like. all over. I was like, "I mean, that's. the only thing that might be good about. the whole media thing. Maybe Kim will.

see it." So, I this is an undated jail. call, but I have an inkling it feels. like it could be around the Netflix time. because they do talk about this being in. the news during the trial and very early. on in this case and Mackenzie was very. stressed. She didn't like it being on. the news. >> And then with Natalie even saying like, "This is what I was going to do anyway, and maybe Kim Kardashian will reach. out." It seems like with Netflix, their. whole intention was like, "We're going. to get some sort of appeal. we're going. to get people riled up for injustice.

Like I think that's how they saw it. themselves. I don't know for sure, but. that's the feeling that I get. >> And so maybe they think the news, the. attention is great because now people. will finally see the injustice and oh my. gosh, the crime of putting her in jail. >> prison. And so the friend says, I mean, that's. the only thing that might be good about. the whole media thing. Maybe Kim will. see it. So, it doesn't it doesn't sound. like it was around the same time frame. as the trial when they are talking about. these media calls and they don't like. it.

>> So, that's but I don't know. It's. undated, right? But. >> Mackenzie, why why are they so. [clears throat] excited that Kim's going. to see it? >> Because Kim likes to fight for people. who were wrongly convicted. Like she'll. fight for people who are on death row. that. >> you're saying that Kim's going to repost. this and say free Mckenzie. >> Yeah. And it'll start a little movement. and there will be like a change.org or. and then maybe she will get out, right? >> I don't know. You have to figure out. because I'm real nervous and I want Kim. Kardashian to be my lawyer. >> Kim Kardashian passed the baby bar,

>> which I don't think is true at all. I. don't think she passed the baby bar yet. She has been trying to pass the baby. bar. The baby bar is notoriously hard to. pass, right? But she's a lawyer. >> Also, she didn't pass. >> I don't think she did. Yeah, I know. she's failed a few times, which is not. like shading or shaming someone cuz the. baby bar is that hard. Yeah, >> right. But she also has like a. completely other career that she's very. busy with. So, I don't know. Right. But. she I don't think she's a lawyer yet. >> Yeah. >> She's a lawyer. >> She gets innocent people out of jail.

>> And I do want to clarify. I do think. that Kim Kardashian advocating for. people who are on death row that are. innocent of their crimes is probably one. of the best things that she's ever done. So, this is not me saying like, "Oh, she's not a lawyer yet." Like, it's. actually very difficult to pass the baby. bar, but I'm just saying factually I. don't think it's correct. Anyway, the. friend is like does all the time. Kim. Kim works hard. She is Miss Kimberly. We're going to have her get you out and. I will tell her I buy all her skins and. I only wear skins.

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your life depends on this dinner party. Okay, I tell you if nobody shows up to. your dinner party, you are screwed. And. you can either invite group A or [music]. group B. Group A consists of 12 people, 12 strangers. You don't know them, but. just one person has to show up to your. dinner party. That's it. Okay. Do you. invite group A with 12 people or group. B? Group B consists of just one person. So, you got one shot versus group A, you. have 12 shots. The question almost. sounds dumb because it is and I just be. making up questions, but it's very.

obvious. You choose group A. You invite. the 12 strangers and hope that at least. just one of them shows up. Now, what if. I said I started a rumor? I went in. there and I told group A, the group with. 12 strangers, then you never wash your. hands before prepping dinner. They start. talking to each other before the dinner. party. They start phone calling each. other. Did you know they don't wash. their hands before dinner? Like before. prepping anything? Then group B, that. singular person, they are professional. food tasters. They know they're not the. health department. And I don't really.

start this rumor. I say, "Whatever, if. they wash their hands or not, that's not. what you're basing this your conclusion. off of if you show up or not." Okay, it's weird, but like what about the next. scenario? You invite group A, but all. you can give them is the coordinates to. your house. Not a home address, the. coordinates. I mean, you still have 12. chances that one person's going to show. up, right? One person is going to go. through the hassle of decoding the. coordinates. Some might plug them in. wrong, but at least like maybe one will. show up. You don't know. But then I tell. you, group B, you know, that one person.

is a coordinate expert. It's as easy as. them to show up to the coordinates as if. you wrote the house address with the. house number and the street name. They. know how to read it easily. Who do you. invite? This is like a very over. complicated way of describing jury and. bench trials. Okay, a bench trial being. instead of the jury deciding your fate, it's one judge. And there's really only. two reasons that people will choose that. and it's like the examples that I just. gave. So especially in criminal cases, they like a jury trial. The mentality is. you have to flip one.

>> That's why there's lawyers who. specialize in va just picking a jury. >> Mhm. >> They come in just for picking the jury. and then they leave. They're not trial. lawyers. And you got to flip them hard. You can't just flip them and say like, "Oh, now I have a little bit of doubt.". Like they have to be able to stand their. ground and say, "No, like I have enough. reasonable doubt." But you have. technically 12 chances at reasonable. doubt. Versus with a judge, you have one. shot. And a judge is a professional. hearer of excuses. They have heard every. excuse and every argument in the book.

It makes sense to opt for the jury. But. from my very limited research, it seems. like there's two reasons why people. would opt for a bench trial if they have. the option. So the first option is a. very rare situation of science. This. case is overly technical. There's. extensive data. The whole narrative is. databased. There's no emotionally. compelling narrative. All the facts, the. arguments are rooted in complex. scientific data. [music] It would be. worth considering. Now, this is also. like a double-edged sword. Sometimes the.

confusing data, you want to go for a. jury trial. >> Confuse them. >> Yeah. Confuse them and make them believe. it's reasonable doubt, but it's not. It's just they don't understand the data. because we're all lay people. We don't. like we're not specializing in this. >> Yeah. >> Right. But if your innocence is in the. data, maybe you do opt for a judge. because they're technically above. average in the smartyp pants department. They may be able to decipher the truth. in the science a bit better than 12. jurors who don't have much experience in. it. >> So science, right? The second common.

reason is the defense is not a factual. argument. So like the science is like. the coordinates. >> Mhm. >> But the second one is more like the. washing the hands argument. The defense. is not a factual argument or an. emotional argument or a compelling. narrative argument. The argument the. defense is making is legal. So, for. example, a man is charged with. possession of a firearm by a felon. Everyone agrees he has a criminal. history. That's [music] fact. He has. this object in his backpack that looks.

like a gun, and it is a gun. But the. gun's firing mechanism was permanently. removed years ago. And the statute in. this jurisdiction defines firearm as. something capable of expelling a. projectile. So the defense is sure he. had it. Sure, he's a felon. Sure is. But. it's not a firearm. By the letter of the. law, it's not a firearm. A judge may be. more inclined to see this legal argument. versus a jury might argue, does it. really matter? It's a gun-shaped object. He had it in his possession. He couldn't. have been wanting to do anything good. with that. >> Mhm. >> Basically, a case of, "I'm not arguing.

about what happened. I'm arguing about. what the law means." Or another reason. is like the facts are just revolting. And maybe the defendant is also revoling. but the law is on their side. So a. hypothetical could be and this is from. Reddit like someone says I'll give you a. completely hypothetical as an example. right let's pretend you represent. someone who was found with 100 terabytes. of cesam and you realize there is an. argument that under the case law the. person didn't actually disseminate or. create any of it and you've got yourself. in this weird gray area situation. You're probably going to have a better.

chance convincing a judge to find in. that [music] manner. If a jury gets a. hold of it, they're going to convict you. as soon as the state proves your client. was in possession. That's it. The facts. are revolting, but maybe the law is on. your side. The legal case is, you know, maybe a little weak on the prosecutors. A judge can hold a line for beyond a. reasonable doubt where jurors would be. so disgusted. Beyond reasonable doubt. line would be overridden by their. disgust. They're like, I don't care. about the law. He had it. Like, that's. all that matters to me. >> Fascinating. Okay. McKenzie Sharella.

chooses to have a bench trial where one. single judge will decide her fate. It. has been argued that maybe she chose a. bench trial because the defense was. going to argue that the blackbox data. from the car is not enough to judge. whether or not McKenzie had intent and. that maybe it was going to be rooted in. the data because that's that's the. intent part they could argue. Whereas. maybe jurors would see the blackbox. data, it's not like emotionally. compelling. They'd rather see the text. messages, Instagram posts, and what she. did after as more evidence. Another. argument could be made that the facts. are revolting. Her messages with Dom,

her behavior before and after the crash, her smoking and driving post, it's. revolting. But maybe the defense. believed it still does not prove intent. legally. So maybe it's a legal argument. of like yes, she's kind of like not a. good person, but like legally is this. intent. >> However, I do think it should be noted. I think the outcome of the trial was the. right outcome. Not that my opinion. matters, but I tend to agree with the. verdict. I also think the choice on. McKenzie's part to have a bench trial. was kind of odd. I don't know if that. was the best choice. I've listened also.

to a ton of lawyers be puzzled at the. choice, but it really doesn't matter. Just because you choose the wrong choice. doesn't mean there's injustice done to. you, nor does it mean the outcome should. be different. It's just more so like why. did you do that? >> Mhm. >> It's very interesting when you consider. the fact that the defense did not bring. in a medical expert to testify about. POTS and the potential that McKenzie. suffered a POTS related episode. They. only brought in her mom to testify to. the judge, which a defendant's mother's. assertions are probably held very low on. the scale of credibility. But it's.

interesting that they didn't bring in a. medical expert. It makes you wonder. whether a it was such a bad defense, b. there's no medical expert that would be. willing to testify in the way that the. defense would consider helpful and they. would get eviscerated in the cross-. examination by the prosecutors. Or C, the defense knew the judge would see. through some medical expert. testimony that there's it's just going. to it's going to be dumb. The judge is. going to get peeved and it's not going. to make any sense and it's just going to. cost a ton of money or maybe all of the.

above. Also, I do think it's interesting. that they didn't bring in an expert. because we are still talking about it to. this day because they left it open to. interpret. They left it open as like a. possibility. Now, had they brought in a. medical expert and they got eviscerated. during cross-examination, that would be completely ruled out. >> So, instead of ruling it out, they've. left it open. But then there's this. whole argument where people are like, "Well, did McKenzie not get a fair trial. because she her defense attorney was so.

incompetent, they didn't even bring in a. medical expert." So, it's kind of, you. know, it's an argument that goes in. circles. McKenzie states that she. doesn't remember anything after the. crash. And I mean, they don't bring in a. POTS expert, but they also don't bring. in an amnesia expert of any sort because. people are skeptical that Mackenzie. conveniently does not remember anything. in the pivotal moments before the crash. A lot of people who have been in car. accidents anecdotally say that that is a. fact, like is in fact something that. does happen to them, but not bringing in. an amnesia expert who can testify to.

that is a very interesting choice. Unless the defense thinks that whatever. the expert will testify to, the judge. isn't going to buy it. One former. resident in the reformatory is asked. whether or not they saw Mackenzie show. any signs of pots in jail, and she says, "Not once. She seemed [music] like a. very healthy young girl. I mean, she was. constantly in the yard. There were even. times where we were in the middle of a. heat wave and she was laying out with. baby oil, tanning in 100 degree weather. She was very active, always walking. I. never saw her get blood pressure checks, routine emergency. Like I never saw her.

go to take any sort of medication. She. seemed healthy to me. Yeah. >> Interesting. >> And we went through like 31,000 pages of. text messages between McKenzie and Dom. And it seems like most of her very. strong health concerns came from it does. appear that she had a strong ED and she. lost her period at some point and like. there's a lot of conversation where Dom. is encouraging her to eat and like. trying to get her to eat. So I think. that they don't really ever talk about.

POTS ever, but like maybe they chose the. bench trial because they were going to. argue the legal technicality that yes, this happened. The crash was clearly. done by Mackenzie, but legally it's not. intent because she was passed out or for. whatever reason. if the bench trial was. chosen for the fact that the blackbox. information is so technical that a lay. person would not be able to decipher it, which I don't necessarily agree with. that. But if that were the case, it. still confuses me that defense didn't. provide compelling arguments on how. that's the case. I think even Karen. Reed's blackbox data was more hotly. debated than this case. So, it I'm just.

a bit confused on the purpose of the. bench trial. Or was it chosen because. they just thought McKenzie is just so. unlikable that only a judge could put. aside her actions before and after the. crash and rule solely on what she's. charged with? I have no clue. One. Redditor theorizes if the prosecution is. able to even get a few of those social. media posts of hers admitted, then as a. lawyer, I would push for a bench trial. She came across horribly and whether. instructed to do so or not, I could. absolutely see jurors seeing her. relentless self- agilation, performative.

indifference, rules don't apply to me, I. get what I want attitude and say to. themselves, "Yeah, that seems like the. type of girl who would and could do what. she did or what the prosecutors say she. did.". >> Right? >> Like another viral case is Michelle. Carter. Do you guys remember her? She. encouraged her boyfriend to self-exit. through text messages. She famously. opted for a bench trial because her. behavior Oh, she was found guilty. She. was found guilty of involuntary. manslaughter, but her behavior was so. deplorable. Like those text messages are.

going to be admitted. She's not a. likable person by a long shot. And the. defense argued all these le legal. technicalities of like, okay, yeah, she. did do those things, but technically. it's not manslaughter. They argued she. wasn't even there. They argued there was. no bodily harm inflicted by her. Also, whatever happened to free speech? Like, they're arguing all these legal stuff, but it's like you're a gross person. [music] So they thought the jury would. never see past you're a gross person, but I guess the judge didn't either. And. also in that case, I agree with the. verdict. I actually think it should have. been stronger. But the she was found.

guilty of involuntary manslaughter. Obviously, these are not even remotely. similar cases, but it just does make you. wonder that maybe, yeah, jurors would. have found both of these girls not very. redeemable. And sure, in hindsight, it. might be easy to say, "Oh, well, maybe. Mackenzie was dumb for choosing a bench. trial." But who knows? All I know is. McKenzie does seem to piss off a lot of. people. Even during the trial, it's very. clear Mackenzie and her family know that. all her jail calls are being monitored. and typically this is the most sensitive. time is during the trial. In preparation.

for the trial and during the trial, the. prosecutors are listening to every. little thing that's going on. But. McKenzie still voices her frustration. against the prosecution to her mom. She. says on a recorded jail line, "And that. girl prosecutor would be so pretty if. she wasn't such a She is a. I hate her. And the man, the boy. prosecutor, I'm like, "Man, do you have. another suit or what?" Because you wear. the same suit every day. You. dirty as I know that suit stink. with that roll in your neck. Like his. bald dumb ass. I hate him. He's ugly as.

>> That girl prosecutor would be so pretty. if she just wasn't such a Like. she's a like I hate her. The boy. prosecutor, I'm like, "Man, do you have. another suit or what? You wear that same. suit every day. Like you dirty. as fuck." like. >> like. why are you doing this right now? For. someone who was on trial for murder, Mackenzie is quite opinionated about how. people look. She also rants about the. detective that testified. I was trying. to look at him like, what is he? He's. not white. He's so ugly. It almost seems. like Natalie is trying to soften the. statement. Well, he's definitely ugly on.

the inside. >> Well, definitely inside. He's definitely. ugly inside. >> But Mackenzie brings it up in another. conversation. He's not white. What is. he? He's ugly as He built weird as. I'm like, why you thick at the. bottom and small at the top? He's slim. thick for a man and it just throws me. off. Again, like in the middle of the. trial, keep in mind Natalie and Steve. this entire time have been screaming. from the hilltops that McKenzie is not a. bully, that she just has a fierce.

personality. But then there's moments on. these jail calls where Mackenzie will be. talking to her mom and she gets. distracted by a new inmate that's coming. in and she says, "Oh my god, another. girl just got moved in our pod. She. looks slow as Natalie's like, "Well, she may just be distraught. because they're new. They just got into. prison." No, she look And then she says. the rword. >> God, another girl just got moved on our. pod. She looks low as. >> well. She may be distraught. >> No, she look. >> She's meaner than a wet cat. I always. find it interesting when people who have.

zero sympathy for others expect full. sympathy for themselves from every. single person around them. She's talking. about how she doesn't want to go to. court, aka to her own murder trial. She's like, if one of DaVon and Dom's. friends, do you guys remember [music] H? I talked about H. He was one of the. first students to kind of start his own. little investigation. And yes, he did. come up with some conspiratorial. thoughts about what happened. And even. the police pointed it out, some of it. was a little off, but he was very. passionate about trying to get justice, right? And you have to have some level.

of respect for that. But he also should. he's the one that responded to Mackenzie. on social media when she posted about. Dom. And then he was like, "What about. DaVon?" Mackenzie says, "I don't want to. go to the courtroom if H is in the. courtroom. I don't feel safe with him. anywhere near me. I feel like he's going. to attack me." Natalie is like, "I don't. know if there's anything you can do. about that." Well, I'm going to refuse. to go in the courtroom then. Honey, you. can't. Just [music] don't even look over. there. And then he's like hugging Miss. Russo. She's probably the one that told. him to come harass me at the grave and. follow me that day. >> And then he's like hugging Miss Russo.

like she's probably the one that told. him to like come harass me at the grave. and like follow me that day. There is zero proof of that, by the way. And it's just kind of weird. You're the. one on trial for killing two people. I. don't know if there are that many people. that are scarier than you in the town of. Strongsville. And I do get that there is. some nuance to who is in the room during. a murder trial. The defendant usually. wants to have family and friends to show. up to show the jury or the judge in this. case that they have support, that not. everybody has turned on them, so it must. mean that there is a shot at redemption, right? McKenzie asked Natalie if Rosie. and Bubba can come to the courtroom,

which Natalie responds, >> "Kenzie, I'm not talking about anything. on the phone. I already told you. I. already told you the um if they can or. can't." Why? >> Try to get as many people to come to my. court as possible. >> So, the people that can can. Some people. have to work, and if they can't get out. of work, then they can't come. >> Mackenzie is upset that Rosie has not. shown up to court a single time to. support her. and her mom Natalie has to. explain to her over the course of one. too many jail calls that quote Rosie. cannot show up to court because she's on. the defense witness list. [music] And if.

the defense were to ever call her, they. cannot because she's been there for. other parts of the trial. And if there. is a sequester order in place, which. there most likely is, judging based off. the jail calls, right? Then Rosie can't. come to court. Which, side note, remember Rosie was like, "I was willing. to testify, but I was never called." I. think that applied both ways. I'm. assuming the prosecution never called. her because she's on the defense witness. list [music] and most likely it would. not help the prosecutor's case. Like she. would just be such a risky witness that. would provide probably no value to the.

prosecutors. But it's it is interesting. that it was phrased as more so like, oh, if the prosecutors called me, I would. have come. Right? But there is a little. bit more to the story. Anyway, the whole. thing just [music] does not feel right. to Mackenzie. She's not having it. Good. old McKenzie, sharp as a marble. She. still doesn't like that Rosie hasn't. shown up to court. And on top of that, there's this developing issue where. Rosie is friends with people who don't. like McKenzie. And this is like really. bothering McKenzie. I deduced this from. the fact that Mackenzie brings it up. across multiple different jail calls.

with her mom when they could be talking. about literally anything else. One call. starts off normally with Mackenzie. talking about how she couldn't sleep. well the night before because, quote, "Somebody's arguing loud as. at [music] 4:00 a.m. and I couldn't go. back to sleep, but then I got anxiety. because, oh, I forgot to tell you." So, Rosy's hanging out with like Natalie. interrupts her. No, I know. No, that's. all fixed. I told her not to say. anything because it's not confirmed and. it's 100% not true. She unfriended them. and everything. [music] I don't believe. that. I do because how are you going to. post that about me? >> Like Rosie's hanging out with like.

>> No, I know. No, that's all fixed. I told. her not to say anything cuz it's not. confirmed and it's 100% not true. She. unfriended them and everything. >> I don't believe that. >> I do. >> Cuz how are you going to post that. about like me? >> So, she's saying that Rosie is hanging. out with this girl named Sammy. And. Sammy has been posting negatively about. McKenzie online. And McKenzie is upset. that Rosie is hanging out with someone. like Sammy. >> How is she knowing all of this? >> Because another friend will call her. >> Oh. >> And tattle. The other friend that I. believe is the other one in the.

documentary. >> She's too involved over what? >> And I also think it's weird that. Natalie's so involved. >> Natalie is like, "How do you know she's. with Sammy every day?" Because every. time I would call Rosie when I would be, you know, at free phone call day, she. would be with Sammy. And if Sammmyy's. going to post that weirdass about. me and Rosy's cool with her, I'm not. going to be cool with her. So Natalie is. like, I'm going to reach out to Faith. and Faith is going to look into it. Now. Faith is the other one in the Netflix. documentary and like has been. >> supports McKenzie.

>> Yeah. And so Natalie is like, Faith's. checking into what that was. I don't. think they're together anymore. Like I. don't think they're hanging out anymore. Well, Faith told me that they hang out. every single day and I believe Faith. because I want to be told stuff like. that. She doesn't know that, though. I I. don't know if she knows that or not. She. talked to Rosie last night, so let's. just wait to see what she says. But. that's weird as What the. Right. How come I don't have this issue. with any of the other people who just. like support me? >> But like that's just weird as Like.

what the Like. >> how come I don't have this issue with. any of my other people who just like. support me? >> I don't know if it's an issue though, sweetie. It's clearly an issue. I mean, she clearly took down all the pictures. of me off her Instagram with her and. that's weird as And then she won't. put free Kenzie and Like, that's. weird. And now she's hanging out with. someone who wants to be like, "Yep,". when they find me guilty of murder. Like, that's just just wait till you. talk to Faith. And I will literally. block Rosy's contact on here. I don't. know why. I just get weirdass vibes from.

her. I know. And that's because she. means a lot to you. What? She means a. lot to you. No, that's not Faith and. Jada and Kendra mean a lot to me, too. and I don't get those vibes from them, so that's not why. That's definitely not. why. McKenzie gets a little upset at her. mom, saying, "But why didn't you tell me. is the crazy thing. I don't like that.". How would I know? Natalie tells her that. she just needs to talk to Faith first. before talking to Rosie and not spread. unnecessary anxiety or whatever, unless. she's sure about it. But Mackenzie is. still ranting about Sammy, saying, "So.

weird. Imagine posting my face and. just for clout and shit." Mackenzie's. simplicity is adviable. Later in the. call, Mackenzie brings it up again, asking, "So, what did Rosie say to you. about this shit?". >> Mackenzie, she loves she loves you to. death. And don't forget, she was, you. know, >> where that doesn't mean anything. >> She She loves you. I think she feels she. feels like um she's got weird vibes. I. said that to her before. She was like, "No, no, please tell her. I love her so. much and like the summer is unbearable. without her. I think about her every.

day.". >> That's But that's all she says every. single time. Like it's like, >> but that's all she says every single. time. Like that is so weird to me. I'm. just weirded out. I just feel like why. did you delete everything off Instagram. about me? Then ask her, Ken, why are you. hanging out with people that are weird. as Ask her. Ask her. Just be like, I heard you were hanging out with people. that are glad I'm in here. Is that true? I don't even want to call her though and. waste my time. >> I don't even want to call her though and. waste my time with her. Like. >> don't accuse him.

>> I'm accusing the out of her. I. don't give a Like I'm I'm already. told like my people wouldn't lie. >> That's not true though. Talk to Faith. first what the conversation was and then. ask her. >> I'm just weirded out by her. Like. >> I don't know. I'm just weirded out by. her. But nobody likes being accused of. things they didn't do. Right. If you. can't post my face and be like free her. If you can't post and be like free. Kenzie, she's innocent. Like. this is crazy Like like what the. That's weird. She was there. She. did all that. She did not post free me.

And if my friend was in jail, I'd post them every day being. like, "Free them." Okay, but she did. post on your birthday, remember? I. didn't see anybody else do that except. for Rosie and Nina. Like, you know? So, just pause and ask her, "Are you hanging. out with Sammy? I heard she's glad I'm. in here. Are you still hanging out with. her?" Don't accuse. Ask. And she posted. on your birthday. There's just weird. going on. I don't I don't know. Just keep being strong. Keep the faith. And you have to trust in your friends,

okay? There's just there's this weird. going on. I don't know. >> Just keep be strong, keep the faith, and. you have to trust in your friend. It. >> appears they figure out what the problem. is. But McKenzie is still confused why. Rosie never shows up to court to support. her. To which again, Natalie reminds her. because we didn't know if she was going. to be a witness. Remember, we didn't. know. So, she couldn't have been there. You can't sit in there if you're a. witness. In another call, Natalie. reassures Mackenzie about Rosie. And. Natalie says that she went through all. of Rosy's pages, which is just like. weird behavior for her mom, and saw that.

she's not following Sammy. What are you. doing? Tell your child to get a grip. Why are you stalking college kids on. Instagram to see who they're following? But it appears this family is just super. committed to their faults and. limitations because Natalie continues to. reassure McKenzie that she saw that. Rosie is not following Sammy. But. Mackenzie is like, "But see, that makes. me nervous because what if she's lying?". >> But see, that makes me nervous though. cuz what if she's just lying? She's. like, "Sam, me. I have to unfollow you. for a little bit, but I'm about to like. tell you.". >> She would never. You got to trust. She. would never. She's been there for you. from from the beginning of time. Post.

your birthday, showing up for you, everywhere. You got to let You got to. trust. You got to let that go. >> So weird to me, though. >> Okay, this whole thing is so weird to me. for a multitude of reasons. Why does. McKenzie care so much? Just stop talking. to Rosie then. It's not like you have to. talk to her. It's not like you guys go. to the same school. You're in prison. In. fact, it takes more energy and money to. talk to her on these collected call. lines. Also, Natalie, why are you. getting involved? Why are you not. telling your daughter, "Get a grip. Get. a grip." Why are you so adamant that. your daughter should be nice to Rosie?

That's also weird. Why can't you just. tell her, "Okay, then just don't be. friends with her." Damn. Why does she. have to see from Rosy's side? Why does. she have to trust Rosie? Like, all of. this is weird. That's not to say that. I'm on anyone's side of the argument. I. just think this whole thing is dumb and. I'm confused why everyone keeps going. There's another call where Natalie tell. almost cryptically tells McKenzie she. should never doubt Bubba or Rosie. And. McKenzie wants to know why. She's like, "What are they doing?" Uh, I can't. really get into it on the phone, but. they're amazing. 100% amazing. You.

should never have doubt in your mind. about that one, especially Rosie. Bubba, you should never have doubt in your mind. about their um. >> Well, what are they doing? >> I can't really get into it on the phone, but. amazing. Never have a doubt in your mind. about those that one especially what. >> Boba you should never have a doubt in. your mind about their. >> that's crazy when was this we don't know. >> it seems like it was during the trial or. soon after but down in her mind has it. might be the only thing up there okay in. a later phone call McKenzie brings it up.

again and she says I'm going to have. people watching her and if as soon as. she hangs out with her she's getting. blocked on everything and you. need to take her out of the group chat. >> right. >> I'm going to have people watching her. and if as soon as she hangs out with. her, she's getting done. everything and she's You need to take. her out of the group chat. >> Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait. Yeah, >> bro. What is happening right now? >> And Natalie's like agreeing like Natalie. has a group chat with McKenzie's. friends. >> She's like running a mafia in there or. something like I'm going to have people. watching this person. I'm going to take. you out and I'm going to I will know.

like. >> what is happening right now? >> Natalie continues, "You've got to. trust." And there's nobody on her. Instagram page. It's just her modeling. pictures. Nobody's on there. Not even. Nina. But it used to be all of us. I. just think it's weird. I don't know. I. don't like how she just deleted our. pictures and she also deleted that. YouTube video again. There's nothing. anywhere though. You can't read into. these things. You have to ask a. question. Ask. Don't accuse. She deleted. the YouTube video. I don't need to ask. And I want you to change my Instagram.

bio to what? If they ain't hating, you. doing something wrong. The That's. what you need to change it to. And then. do hashtagfree Kenzie. Okay, don't. forget do it right now because I don't. want you to like make it some stupid. on accident. [music]. >> And I want you to change my Instagram. bio. >> I to what? >> If they ain't hating you doing something. wrong. That's what you need to change it. to. And then do #free Kenzie. >> Okay, >> don't forget do it right now cuz like I.

don't want you to make it so so stupid. on accident like accidentally missing. what I try to say. >> The quote in its entirety is stupid but. okay. Did they change it? Oh, wait. Her. Instagram's gone, right? >> Yeah. Okay. >> In another call, Mackenzie tells her mom. to put long live Dom and long live DaVon. in my bio, too, which I just feel like. is a slap in the face to the victim's. families. And there's just a lot of. concern that she has of whether or not. people support her. McKenzie rants again. to Natalie that she has a few friends. that have yet to reach out to her in. jail. And Natalie is reassuring her that.

those friends are just quote weak. You. know, she's just weak and she doesn't. have a real good secure sense of who she. is. She's just a follower. I feel like. there's more pressing matters to tend. to, but I mean like what could be more. urgent, I guess. Like the more pressing. matters could include how the Sherillas. believe the judge presiding over. Mckenz's face is corrupt. That's what. they keep saying. The Sherillas believe. the judge overseeing Mackenzie's case is. corrupt. At least that's what they've. been alluding to non-stop. They believe.

that there's something going on between. Don Russo's family and Judge Russo, which side note, a few things. Okay, they do share the same last name. Does. not mean that they are related. They are. not related. That has been proven. [music] And another thing, Christine. Russo, Dom's mother, did in fact work. for the DA's office, but that again. doesn't necessarily mean anything. It's. not like she's currently working for the. DA's office, and there's nothing to. prove any sort of nefarious connection. that would have impacted the trial. The. main things I keep hearing from the. Sharillas is that the investigators. didn't hand over some interviews during.

discovery, which allegedly has Dom's mom. and brother talking about McKenzie's. medical condition, POTS, which I did. hear in one interview, Dom's mom says. that Mackenzie started bringing it up. after the crash and she felt like it was. trying to plant seeds. But let's say. this is true. Maybe they're sitting. there and being like, "Oh yeah, I saw. her faint all the time. I saw her pass. out all the time." Right? Like just for. hypotheticals, let's say that's true. Even if they said that, I don't know how. that changes anything as it pertains to. the trial. Like I said, you can have.

POTS and drive safely. You can have POTS. and kill people in a car crash. It was. up to them to bring in a POTS expert, a. medical expert to prove that she indeed. did have some sort of accident relating. to POTS. It's not up to Dom's mom. Like, it's not Dom's mom's opinion. So, I just. don't know where this correlation is, but they're kind of alluding to like. some sort of corruption behind the. scenes. Aside from that, I do think that. if they really did not receive certain. key things in Discovery that were. necessary to their defense, that would.

be a big big problem. Like, there are. strict laws for Discovery. And that just. doesn't seem to be the basis of their. appeal, or at least not the main one. And it's just not something that they. bring up all the time. It's just in. interviews. I would imagine that's a. huge thing. And the second thing is they. bring up frequently in interviews is. that they believe that there's some sort. of corruption or bribery happening. In. one interview, the interviewer says to. McKenzie's dad, Steve, the interviewer. says, "You know, I was trying to explain. that having the last name Russo in this. county is like having the last name.

Kennedy in Boston.". I just don't know if that's like a. really good comparison because the. Kennedy like that is a globally known. last name with a lot of power behind it, especially in the political world, but. it's just kind of odd. To which Steve. looks really smug and he responds, "Mhm, there might be some truth to that. Like. I said, this is a political family and I. apologize to the Flanigan family right. now. If it was just DaVon in that car, she wouldn't be in jail.

>> It would have never left the juvenile. court. This has to do with the boy's. last name and the judge saying, "Well, I. don't have a blood relationship." Look, I'm not saying she has a blood. relationship. I'm saying she has. relationship with the Russo family and. he, you know, even saying that in court, if you're going to believe like she. doesn't have a relationship, you're. fooling yourself. I'm not saying it's. directly with Christine Russo, but you. know, down the road here, but it's with. somebody. Christine Russo was part of. the prosecutor's office at one point, and I believe she's friends with Tim. Troop. I think they were in the office. together. And I'm I apologize to the.

Flanigan family right now. If if if it. was just Dave in the car, she wouldn't. be [music] in jail. It would have never. left the juvenile court. This has to do. with the boy's last name and the jud and. the judge saying, "Well, I don't have a. blood relationship." [music]. Look, I'm not saying she has got a blood. relationship. I'm saying she has. relationships with the Russo family. And. her even saying that in court just. it just if if you're going to believe. she's doesn't have a relationship, you're you're fooling yourself. Um. [music] I I.

>> Steve has asked why do you think they. went so hard against her? There's the. part where maybe I'll get myself into. trouble. Let's try to avoid I think. there's some collusion going on. I think. it's a fix. I think it's a favor. The. last name Russo in this town. I just and. I understand that lots of conspiratorial. things do end up being true. And I think. at face value, the criminal justice. system in America has a lot of deep. flaws, but the way they make it seem. like she is a scientist curing cancer.

and we got to take her down. Like it. it's it's kind of this weird energy. Before the conviction, McKenzie is. talking to her mom about how she feels. about this whole thing and she says, "I. understand that I'm going to have to do. some time. I obviously would rather not. I feel like I shouldn't do any, but. that's how it's going to, you know, this. is the situation. That is what will make. the families happy. But murder, that's. just horrible. Natalie agrees. Nope. Nope. Nope. So, we're just going to go. fight fight fight a guns ablazing.

McKenzie tells her, "I'm so for real. Contact who I told you to contact like. that famous person.". >> Like, I obviously would rather not. I. feel like I shouldn't do any, but that's. how it this has to be in this situation. as we'll make the families happy. But. murder, like. that, that's just horrible. And. >> that's what I mean. So we're just gonna. go fight fight fight fight and get guns. of blazer. >> And I'm so for real. You contact who I. told you to contact like that famous. person. >> I'm on. >> You can get a protest going and like. >> I think she's talking about Kim. Kardashian again.

>> Oh, I know. I I'm on it. McKenzie thinks. that they should organize some sort of. event for her. But you can get like a. protest going on and like Yeah, I'm. dead ass serious. Like a whole ass. protest. Natalie tells her they will keep. fighting, but I hope it doesn't go that. route because that would be ridiculous. McKenzie says yes. And honestly, if the. judge does that, I'm just going to know. that she has some weird assit going on. like bribery or something. That's all I. can think of. I guess McKenzie wants her. mom to get someone famous, maybe Kim. Kardashian, then organize some sort of.

protest in the off chance that the judge. does find Mackenzie guilty of murder, which he thinks is unfathomable, unless there's some sort of corruption. And in another call, Mackenzie wonders. So clearly the judge just wants to speed. this process up as fast as she can and. get it out of her hand. And like this is. a very common thing. Judges do have a. schedule. They do want speedy trials, right? So like this is nothing new. I. wonder how much money she made from. this. >> Wonder how much money she made from. this. >> The judge. >> Yeah, that's what she says.

>> They need to look for like deposits or. some or cash. Some weird They. probably gave her the cash that like Dom. had. Kenzie, we're not talking about. anything. Remember? I don't even know. what you're talking about, so just stop. >> They need to look for like deposits or. some or or cash. They probably gave. her the cash that like Dom had. >> Kenzie, we're not talking about. anything. Remember, don't. >> And again, I think her mom is just. saving for the fact that this is a. recorded line. In one call with a. friend, Mackenzie is talking about how. she's going to be on the news and the. verdict is going to come out, which her.

friend says, and like her friends are. crazy, too. Why are they so obsessed. with you? >> Why are they so obsessed with your with. you? Like you've got in a car. accident. Like I've gotten in three of. those. Like. >> it's probably just because like my. boyfriend's last name is like Russo and. like his family is just like trying to. like do some weird I don't know. They don't with me no more. >> Again, like I did look into it, okay? And there are lots of people with the. name Russo. And there are lots of people. in politics or in the legal field with.

the last name Russo. But also there's. lots of Koreans with the last name Lee. Are they related to Samsung? Probably. not. Are they bribing people in court? Probably not. They're probably just a. regular person with the same last name. She says, "Like I would understand if. they gave me like a normal charge, but. like the charges that they gave me are. like literally insane. They're trying to. make it seem like something that it's. not. It's not like I I didn't do this on. purpose. I got in a car accident. I'm a. third victim. There's evil working. against me." And I'm like, there's evil. working against me. Like, and then I'm.

like, why would I be saved to live like. life if like they were just going to. arrest me? And like I don't understand. They brought me back to life just to put. me in jail. Like that just doesn't make. any sense to me. Like. >> so then I try to think like damn maybe. there's something like good for me. that's planned. >> So then like I try to think that like. damn maybe there's like something good. for me planned. Maybe like this is all a. part of my story and then I'm going to. write my book when I get out of here and. >> There's another phone call where during. the trial like I said they were not very. [music]. excited about media coverage as they are. with the Kim Kardashian phone call and.

McKenzie is just ranting about like why. are people talking about me and Natalie. says who knows? I mean, is the world. that bored? Mackenzie says, >> "Yeah, but why is it making like what's. what's so like I don't even know?". >> Who knows? That's what I mean. I mean, is the world that bored? >> There's nothing like important going on. like like hunger or something like that. >> I know exactly. >> Which is also interesting. The whole, you know, is the world really that bored. is an interesting take because it feels. like it's coming from the perspective of. why is the world so focused on McKenzie. when that's not the case. The world is.

focused on Dom and DaVon being killed, and it just happens to include McKenzie. purely because she's the one convicted. or at least on trial at this point of. killing them. It feels oddly. self-centered. Natalie reassures her, but there's a lot of people that are. like talking and they have your back and. all the comment threads, too. So, like, that's kind of nice. Another phone call between Mackenzie and. Natalie. It This is like soon after the. verdict is announced. The judge finds. Mackenzie guilty, and Mackenzie says, "I'm literally in shock. That was the. last thing I expected to happen. This is.

probably the most emotional phone call. And she sounds like very distraught. This This is just crazy. I don't. understand how they could just be like, "Yeah, she wanted that to happen." No, like they're all zooming in on my face. and and then they're getting to. like handcuffing me and McKenzie. asks her mom, "Why would they keep me. alive if they want me to be in jail?". >> Yeah, this is just like I don't even. like I'm like literally in shock. Like I. just That was like just the last thing I. expected to happen. >> Same with me, baby. I'm a I'm. flabbergasted. In total shock. That was. just like crazy. Like just like I don't.

understand how they could just be like, "Yeah, she she wanted that to happen.". Like no, >> no. Like. >> they're all like zooming in on my face. and then like they get to like. handcuffing me into like. >> Exactly. Don't know. >> So embarrassing. Like I just. >> I'm so sorry, Kenzie. This is going to. make me cry. But you're alive. Okay. >> You're alive. >> Why would they do that? Why would they. keep me alive if they want me to be in. you? >> Because we don't know what your story. is. Your story isn't done yet. It's just. beginning. Who knows what the future. holds for you? Who knows what the reason.

is, but there's a reason, okay? We just. got to get through this journey. Keep. praying, baby. And just know that. everything happens for a reason. And who. knows? This may have saved you from. something. I don't know. But that was. craziness. And we've already begun. fighting. >> Interestingly enough, in one phone call, Steve jumps in and he and it seems like. Steve is out of these phone calls. because he literally cannot hold his. tongue, which is evident through his. interviews, >> right? But he does jump in in one and he. says, "I'm angry for you, baby. I'm just. letting you know I'm angry. Every waking.

second that I'm thinking is about you. That is all I'm thinking about. >> Every every waking second that I'm. thinking is about you. That's all I'm. thinking about. I just want to let you. know I love you so much and I I I cannot. believe you are being put through this. This is I I I hope they I hope karma. comes back and bites everybody that's. against you in the ass so hard that they. all disappear. If I had a magic wand, I. wouldn't go back and help Dave first. I'd make everybody else into the dirt. I'd click my fingers and everybody would.

disappear. That's how that's how angry I. am. They they screwed you so bad. >> Okay, I got to go. Bye. I love I love. you. I love you. I love I'm on your side. 100%. And I know I know you do this on. purpose. >> So, I don't know if he's saying like he. would help DaVon first or if he would. make everyone disappear. >> What does that mean? >> He says I click my fingers and everybody. would disappear. That's what I would do. That's you know that's how angry I am. They screwed you so bad. >> He said he wanted to go back in time. >> if he had a magic wand. And he says I.

wouldn't go back and help DaVon first. >> I wouldn't go back and help. >> I think that's what he says. But he's. also like very like doesn't make any. sense. >> I will make everyone disappear. Yeah. So. I think. >> like he's like I hate everybody. >> Yeah. I think maybe in the past he might. have this is just me taking from this. statement and trying to see what that. means. Maybe he's said in the past like, "I would go back and I would first help. DaVon." But they're very upset about. DaVon's family's victim statements. So. maybe he's saying, "Oh, after this like.

now I'm so mad. >> Oh, I wouldn't go back and save him. >> I would just make everybody disappear.". >> It's interesting. But McKenzie. reiterates in a phone call with her mom, "No, it's not." But like this time it's. like they're saying, "I did it on. purpose." So she's like upset that all. the news is saying that she did it on. purpose. Now, this time it's saying that. like making the whole world know that. they just think I did it on purpose. Well, I'm found guilty of doing it on. purpose when I didn't do it on. purpose. >> I know. I know. >> I didn't even do it on accident. It. wasn't even anything. Why? Like, I don't.

even know what happened. >> I know. >> What does that mean? If you didn't do it. on purpose, it would have had to have. been an accident. Like, I'm confused. What do you mean you did nothing? Like, how does that even make sense? You're. the one driving. Even if you suffered. from a medical emergency, you would. still It would still be an accident. It. just feels like a lack of. self-reflection. Mackenzie encourages. her mom to make some sort of free. Mackenzie Facebook page, which Rosie. told us that the Sherillas are not. running, but there are extensive phone. calls where McKenzie keeps encouraging. her mom to make a Facebook page about.

it. You should really make a Facebook. page where it's like talking about how. this is all wrong. Natalie informs her, "Kenzie, stop talking on the phone right. now about these things. You can't talk. on the phone. We have to talk in person. You should really make a Facebook page. where it's like like talking about how. like this is just wrong and like he's. not talking on the phone right now about. things. You can't talk on the phone. We. have to talk in person. >> And again, that's not me insinuating. that they run the Facebook page. I have. no idea who runs the Facebook page, but. there was just a lot of conversations. where Mackenzie tells Natalie to run a. Facebook page and lo and behold, there.

is a Facebook page. >> When you get charged, what the judge is. looking for is like remorse. You are. sorry. You see where you up, but. everything they're doing and the parents. are doing on top of it's only making. this worse. >> Yeah. >> This is never going to work out. Even in. the long run, the parents are still. babying her to enabling her. >> That's what DaVon's parents said. >> They say that if she even gets out in. 15, however many years, right? If her. parents keep doing this, like nothing. will change. Yeah.

>> And they're doing it. >> It'll get worse and worse. >> Natalie Vance. Well, I can't talk about. anything on this stupiding phone call. >> Yes, because bald head is listening. Hey, what's up? >> DaVon first joined the Flanigans when he. was 8 and 1/2 years old. So, DaVon and. his sisters were actually adopted by the. Flanigan family. And the biggest thing. that they remember is that he was just. obsessed with football ever since he was. a kid. Like, he never had the. opportunity to be involved in organized. sports, which of course DaVon's mom,

Mrs. Flanigan is like football like out. of all the sports why football right. she's worried about him but she also. just like wants him to experience what. he wants to do and DaVon's dad says. DaVon saw a lot in those 8 and 1/2 years. before he came to us I believe he was in. fact like 2 years of it was in county. care which is really rough he he says he. was exposed to a lot of things that no. one should be exposed to at all let. alone a child they say that you know he. was even the team barber for the.

football coach coach and the football. team. So, he had his own equipment and. he would always have them over, much to. their detriment, they say, because. there's hair all over the place all the. time. And they think that senior year. was really hard for DaVon because he. tore his ACL. It was like third game of. his senior season. He wanted to go to. football, like scholarship for football. for college, and he loses the thing that. he was so passionate about. And I think. there was a lot of discourse that I saw. online that especially with when your.

childhood, the first initial years of. childhood are extremely rough. psychologically, a lot of people. encourage putting those children into. sports. >> Like I know in Korea like martial arts. is like a big thing as well because it. helps to like it. There's just a lot of. research of how it helps the development. especially [music] when you know he has. seen a lot that he shouldn't have to. have seen as a kid and I think losing. that was huge for him. DaVon's [music]. dad says I think if we're completely.

being honest it was probably the start. of his downward spiral. Downward spiral. being I think that he just had a very. normal teenager rebellious streak. And. DaVon's parents say that they didn't. like him smoking weed. They thought weed. was a gateway drug. But they can also. see how he did get into weed because he. had so much anxiety and it would just. help with his anxiety and it finally. felt like it was calming down a lot of. [music] the feelings that he might have. had. And you know he's been through so. much more hardship than so many people. his age and he's going through this.

normal very rebellious teenage phase. Of. course there's going to be arguments and. disagreements with his parents. [music]. But it seemed like by all accounts what. everybody has been saying and not just. the family but friends of DaVon that if. anyone was going to get through it, [music]. it was going to be DaVon and the. Flanigans. But McKenzie took him just. took him away from them. DaVon's parents. say DaVon was always the one checking in. on his sisters. So him and his two. sisters were adopted. [music] And Divine. Flanigan has been really vocal and she's.

done a lot of insightful interviews. where she talks about the process that. she had to go through with grief and. mourning and probably is definitely. still going through. But she says, you. know, there was a DM that she received. from McKenzie. And this is like August. 5th of 2022. This is like a few days. after the crash. McKenzie writes like. this is after killing DaVon, her. brother. Hey, you don't need to answer. me. I wouldn't expect you to. I just. want to say I'm sorry for everything. I. love you and DaVon. He was like a. brother to me. I hope you're all getting. as positive, calm energy because your.

family deserves it and I'm praying for. you guys. What is that message after killing. someone's brother? DaVon's mom tells the. judge, "I want to share a small part of. what we lost. July 31st, 2022. My son. DaVon is and always will be so much more. than cargo. He was precious. He was an. amazing soul with a heart of gold. He. gave to the world what he wanted most in. his life, which was love. The kind of. love that would rescue a friend in the. middle of the night, no questions asked. The kind that would protect others and. honor them. He made friends easily with.

his infectious smile. He was gifted. athlete. My son did not have a click of. friends, but instead he was a friend of. all. DaVon made sure that everyone that. crossed his path knew that he truly saw. them, that he valued them, and that they. were worth his time. And typically, I. mean, this sounds like something that a. lot of mothers would say about their. children. But after going through this. massive FOIA request on this file, things are not edited to look beneficial. to anyone, even the victims. I mean, this really is like a spot-on. description of DaVon. He had friends. like everywhere, and all of them are.

coming to the police trying to ask like, "How can we help? Here's what we found. Like, we're investigating." People are. going out of their way to express. [music]. how much of an impact that he had on. them. And I don't think they were doing. that intentionally. I think it was just. like they couldn't help it because. they're going through that grief. Davian's mom continues, "Da was adopted. with his sisters from foster care, their. biological siblings. We were honored to. be chosen to or to have, you know, been. chosen to be their parents, their. forever family, and I'm devastated by. the loss of DaVon. The world lost a.

truly special man. My girls lost their. best friend, their protector, the one. and only trusted family that has been by. their side from day one. He alone. understands the pain and loss that they. have gone through and was always there. for them. This fact alone breaks my. heart for my girls and my family. So. many dreams shattered, a future stolen. We will never get to see the amazing man. that he surely was to become. His. [music] life was precious. Like I said, he was so much more than cargo. DaVon's. parents are very religious. And I do. think that there was a part included.

where Daon's mom is talking about. religion and how McKenzie should repent. DaVon's sister, Divine, tells the judge. in part, "I don't want this pain for. anyone else. I don't want people to have. to go through this. As [music] an. 18-year-old, I hate the fact that he was. gone because someone decided to take his. life. Now that Davian is gone, I feel. stuck. I feel as if I can't move. forward. I feel lost. He was the only. one who picked me up when I fell. He was. my best friend and the only person that. stayed with me since I was born. This is. a recorded phone call of Mackenzie and. Natalie talking about DaVon's family's. impact statements. McKenzie says on the.

recorded jail line, "And when DaVon's. mom said, "I hope Kenzie can repent and. weirdass shit." Like, that was weird as. Natalie says, "I do feel bad for. Divine." Obviously, I do too. That's what McKenzie says. >> And like when DaVon's mom said, "I hope. Kenzie can like repent and like weird. ass." Like that was weird as I was like. >> I feel bad. I do feel bad for um Divine. obviously 100%. >> I So in Divine's impact statement, she's.

talking about how it feels like McKenzie. has no remorse. It feels like she. doesn't care. And like even before the. jail calls, it's like she went out for. Halloween. She went out to the Kid Cuddy. concert. Like it's very clear she just. does whatever she wants. But they start. talking about Divine and what she said. And Mackenzie says Divine said something. along the lines of Mackenzie always has. the easy way out. Mackenzie says, "You. don't even know me. So what the do. you mean easy way out?". You don't even know me. So what the. do you mean the easy way out? Because I. don't I never even hung out with you. ever. Like what the is the easy way out?

I don't even understand what that. >> I love how everybody knows exactly what. went on in this house at all times of. the day. >> Our house. >> Yeah. Because you know, you were never. disciplined. There was never. consequences. There was no anything. You. always had the. just people like that. Just internet. trolls. They don't even know us. >> Natalie rants about the internet trolls. saying, quote, "The internet trolls are. evil and vile, and anyone saying. anything positive is going to be. attacked. There's no sense in doing. that. They're evil, disgusting people.". In a separate call, Natalie says, "I.

wish I could talk to you in private. There's some being posted online. Your mind will be blown. There's sheep. who believe everything that they read. >> There's sheep who believe with. everything that they read for here and. read on social media. And then there's. smart people who know better. That's why. I hate the internet. I hate social. media. Ignorant people.". >> Natalie reassures McKenzie. People that. know you know that this is. People that don't know you are ignorant. and they're talking out of their ass. Christine Russo gives her impact. statement to the judge and she says, [music] "No one wanted this to be a.

murder. No one wanted to punish. Mackenzie Sharilla for this accident, but this was not a car accident. The. evidence and science prove that. Mackenzie Sherilla murdered my son. Dominic as well as DaVon. We all know. what happened in that car that day. What. we don't know is why. I wish I could. change this every day. I lost three. children in that crash. Not a minute. goes by each day that I don't think. about my son as well as DaVon. My heart. is forever broken. The cries heard from. the Sherilla family and friends after. the verdict are nothing more than a lack. of remorse. Mackenzie Sharilla had a.

choice. Dom and DaVon did not. McKenzie is in the back of the courtroom. and she's shaking her head while crying. We are all left here to mourn. Mackenzie. is going to prison because you did this. Be thankful that you're still alive and. have a future, whatever that may be. Dom. and DaVon were robbed of their futures, their hopes, and their dreams. McKenzie. showed no mercy on Dom, nor did she on. DaVon. [music] Only God at this time can. have mercy on her soul. Angelo, Dom's. brother, tells the judge that McKenzie. is the most selfish person he knows.

Ironically, dating Dom, his brother, who. is the most selfless person he knows. Mackenzie Sharilla murdered Dom and. DaVon in cold blood and had already. [music] moved on. Kenzie killed Dom over. the thought of losing him, and she made. DaVon collateral damage. She was. driving, going to concerts, dressing up. for Halloween, no thoughts of the. feelings and lives that she had. destroyed. McKenzie rants in a jail call. I. understand DaVon's mom. Like I know how. they think because they don't know me. But it's like what Mrs. Russo and Angelo. said. That was just crazy. Oh my gosh,

Kenzie. Look, don't you think on it one. second? >> I just don't know why. Like it just like. it wasn't even like I understand like. DaVon's mom like and how they think cuz. they don't know me, but it's like what. Miss Russo and Angelo said that was just. like crazy. >> Oh my gosh, Kenzie. Look, don't you. think on it one second? Oh my god. I hate I hate her mom. >> Yeah. Mackenzie points out the real. things that are of importance now. I'm. worried about my stuff because that's. how they feel about me. They definitely. up my stuff cuz remember she has.

stuff in Dom's house. Why is Angela such. a liar? What the. >> Kenzie, they're just evil people. Baby, I'm sorry. Don't think on it. Do not. think on it anymore. Stop. I need you to. stop. Okay, move forward. You hear, mama? >> We didn't bring up my stuff at that. Dom's house. I need to get my stuff. I'm. worried about my stuff cuz if that's how. they feel about me, they definitely. up my stuff. Like, why is Angelo. such a liar? Like, what the. Like, >> Kenzie, they're just evil people, baby. I'm sorry. Don't think on it. Do not. think on it anymore. Stop. I need you to.

stop. Okay, move forward. You here, mama? >> In another phone call, Kenzie keeps. asking her parents, "You need to get my. stuff from Dom's house before they burn. it or some What are you going to. do with the stuff? You're in prison." In. another call, Natalie feels like someone. is finally on her side about something. and she says, "Oh, speaking of that, somebody was online saying how, you. know, there was no parental supervision. with you and stuff. This was a party. house and I just let people have all. kinds of parties here and everything.". And finally, the neighbor across the.

street, she was like, "You guys don't. know what you're talking about. They're. a wonderful family. They're very nice. and I live across the street. There were. never parties over there. I don't know. what you guys are talking about. Don't. believe everything you hear." Yeah. Well, you know, all those people are. just talking out of their ass, but are they? Natalie Sharilla also. pleads with the judge in court before. sentencing. and she's like wearing a tank top. It's. the craziest thing. Like, everyone, Divine, everyone, like people that are. kids. I mean, Divine, I don't know if. she was 18 at the No, I think she was.

younger than 18 at the time. Everyone. showed up to court with like the decorum. is there. >> Mhm. Natalie's wearing a tank top and. like I understand clothing can get. expensive, but if you're ever going to. borrow a blazer, go buy a blazer and. then return it, like today is the day. >> Yeah, this is your daughter's. >> Yeah. life. She says, "My name is. Natalie Sharilla. I just want to say, am. I allowed to address them at all?" And. she kind of turns to Dom and Davon's. families. I guess the judge gives her. the okay. I just want to say to the.

families that I'm broken, sad, and lost, and my heart hurts for everyone. Okay. She says, "Okay, >> I just want to say to the families that. I'm broken, sad, and lost, and my heart. hurts for everyone, okay? Davian was her. new friend, and Dom was the love of her. life, and he was part of our family, okay? I'm just so sorry that this. happened. We're heartbroken.". Okay. >> So, it's almost like she's like, "Okay, check, check. Said sorry to them." Okay. Okay. Did you hear me? Okay.

>> Okay. And then your honor, this was a. terrible tragic nightmare accident have. happened that she has no memory of and. she will never emotionally or physically. recover from it. She almost died too. And we're asking that you please not run. the sentences consecutive. So that was a. huge thing. If if it's 15 years. consecutive, she would need 30 years. before the option of parole. I believe. she needed to have parole as an option. because she was 17 even though she's. tried as an adult. And she does like the. prayer hands. She's like, "This is why. we ask, you know, do not run the.

sentences consecutive." Um, >> just saying okay after. >> Yeah. >> addressing the families. [music]. >> Yeah. >> Dom's family and we all loved each other. that morning of the accident. Um, she. called. >> So now she's like using this time to. clarify Remember how Dom's mom was. like, "When I called, she was so upset. about Facebook." Do you remember? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> She called. I got a call that there was. a car accident. So, I went to the. hospital and I didn't even know who was.

in the car. The names had not been. confirmed yet. And I was like, I'm going. to cry because I missed him so much. Uh, we loved him so much. So, I called Dom. over and over again praying that he was. going to answer the phone and he didn't. he didn't answer the phone. So, then I. tried to call his mom and she didn't. answer the phone either and still didn't. know who was in the car. I didn't even I. didn't know if she was alive. I I didn't. know what was happening. So then when we. were in the waiting room and then his. mom ended up um she did call me. So I. answered the phone and I was like oh my. god I don't even know who was in the car.

like what's happening. Was that Dom? And. she said what do you mean my son is dead. and I was like I'm so sorry. And then. she said something like and now I have. to wait until your kids out of the. hospital. And then I didn't hear the. rest. I guess this is her trying to share her. side of the story, but like such a weird. odd way to spend time talking to the. judge. She says, "We loved him so much. I hung up the phone. I did not talk. about social media. I didn't even know. what was going on yet." Okay. So then.

that was it. Um. >> what? >> Yeah. She's using. >> She's trying to defend her own character. right now. Like she's like, "I didn't. say social media.". >> Yeah. And then she brings up the whole. modeling post, right? That was like a. >> her modeling post response. >> Yes. in the hospital that is. mindblowing. >> Yeah. Yeah. I've never seen this happen. before. >> She's like trying to clear her name. >> Yeah. Usually when I. >> even her daughter's name. >> No. And usually when I say, "Oh, this. was like the shittiest impact statement. from a defendant's parent." It's because.

it's short and generic. Like, "Please. have mercy on my kid." Right. But this. is like the shittiest of the shittiest. I've ever seen. >> in the hospital. That vitality post. Um. I commented on that because somebody. called her a murderer. And she's not a. murderer. She just got convicted of. murder, right? So what? She didn't even. have her phone at that point because the. police still had it. Okay. I jumped on. and I was like, she's not a murderer. She's more sad than her, you know, than. most of the people commenting. She's. been trying to get in touch with you. I. mean, at that point, it was just an. accident. So, I commented on her behalf,

not because of the modeling opportunity. Who cares about that? I just I don't. want them to refer to her as a murderer. Okay. I don't even know. that comment. got on the phone, you know, like because. the police still had her device and she. could not access her phone or social. media. That's why I did it. I had called. them asking if they could shut down. social media because people were calling. her a murderer and making death threats. and organizing groups to take her out. when she got out of the hospital and. stuff. Yeah, Natalie, they'll just shut.

down social media to take care of your. daughter. I'm sure Google Meta and. Oracle would absolutely lose it all for. your daughter. What better cause would. there ever be? Natalie Sharilla does not. know how to read the room. McKenzie is. like crying. She's so emotional during. this. She's like, "Yes." I don't know if. she feels vindicated. Okay. But there's. two officers in frame and they also both. look just like confused. This is during. like the live stream of the verdict and. the sentencing. They're looking like. they're a mixture of bored anding. confused and like what the is this. lady yapping about?

>> They're just like what? >> Natalie Shar continues, "I didn't even. want her phone. I don't care about her. phone. I don't care about social media. I just wanted them to stop calling her a. murderer. >> I just wanted them to stop calling her a. murderer so that when she did come to. and she did come out of surgery, multiple surgeries, that she wouldn't. see all these people calling her a. murder because she would never ever ever. murder the love of her life. Okay. The Halloween for 3 months after the.

accident, she would only wear his. clothes. She would only eat the snacks. he ate. She would only listen to the. music he wrote. Okay. >> Okay. She was laying in bed for 3 months. crying. There was a shrine of him next. to her with photos and things that he. liked and this flower that lights up. that he got her because, you know, he. wanted it to be fresh and alive forever. It's like a little beautiful flower. Okay. She's got this shrine of him next. to her. So, she was crying for 3 months. So, her friends asked her if she wanted. to go out to trick-or-treating or some. Halloween and it was at OU Ohio.

University. And she didn't even want to. go. She said, "I don't know. Should I. go?" She couldn't even walk it barely. So I told her, I said, "Baby, please go. It's Halloween. You've been laying for. three months crying, only listening to. his music. Please go have a moment of. fun." A moment of fun. So we told her to. go. [music]. >> Are these post? >> These are in Halloween of last year. So. these would be post crash. Um just.

before she was charged in November, >> my husband drove her. I brought her back. home. She just needed a second of fun. from losing her whole world, her whole. world. So, this was us. We told her to. go. And that concert uh she went to with. Dom's cousin, the Kid Cuddy concert. Abby, Abby, you know, they picked her. up. They brought her there. That was. McKenzie and Dom and Abby all decided to. go to this concert together. And um that. was for Dom. Everything she did after.

the accident was either in honor of him, to be close to him, or just to be by him. any way that she can. She's devastated. and tragic and he was the air that she. breathes. Okay. And they went with his. cousin. We spent all kinds of time with. him after the accident. And what was the. other thing? It was so shocking. The. judge interrupts her. I'm hearing an. awful lot about your daughter. I'm not. hearing very much about the two dead. people, Dom. Okay. I'm asking you for.

leniency because this was a tragic. accident that she does not remember. And. DaVon, he's a new friend. I'm so sorry. What does that mean? His life is. worthless. The judge asks, "No, no, no, no, no. God, no, not at all. They all. loved each other. They all spent every. day together. You know what I mean? I I. don't I I don't know too much." Isn't. that part of the problem, Mrs. Sharella,

sorry. Isn't that part of the problem. that they all trusted each other? It's. It's not a problem at all. It's. wonderful how they all ended up in the. car together until two of them ended up. dead. I understand what it looks like. I'm saying this was a tragic accident. She would never We're going to have to. disagree on that. I I understand. I. understand. But anyway, um that's it. I. just wanted to address those. We told. her to go to those things and then she. did go with Dom's family. So [music].

look on that with different eyes if you. can please if you would have a moment. All you need is 5 minutes of. conversation to have with her to learn. who she is. Just you know you would just. see 5 minutes. Yeah. She's not capable. of you know doing and you would see for. yourself. >> Thank you. That's all. I I'm so sorry. guys. Thank you. >> I'm hearing an awful lot about your. daughter. I'm not hearing very much. about the two damn people. >> Dominic. Okay, I'm asking you for. leniency because this was a tragic. action that she does not remember. And.

do Davian, we don't. He's a new friend. and I'm so sorry. >> Does that mean his life is more. worthless? >> No, no, no, no, no. All you would need is 5 minutes of a. conversation to have with her to learn. who she is. I'm so sorry, guys. I'm. sorry. the fact that she didn't even. care to prepare anything more in depth. about Dom and DaVon. Later, McKenzie. asks her mom in a recorded jail line, "Why was the judge being so mean to. you?" I don't know. I don't care. I was.

about to be like, "Just stop talking to. her because she clearly doesn't care.". >> And and why was the judge being so mean. to you? I was about to just be like, "Just stop talking to her cuz she. clearly doesn't care." She's like, "Why. are you talking about her so much and. not the the victim?". >> All the while, Natalie is trying to. motivate McKenzie. You are here for a. reason. You impact lives no matter where. you go in such a positive way. This is. just another chapter. So Mackenzie. shares her statement during sentencing. >> To the families. of God and Davia, I'm so deeply sorry. I.

hope one day you kiss. I would never let. this happen or do it on purpose. I wish. I could remember what happened. I'm just. so sorry. I'm heartbroken. I love John. and Dave. We were all friends and down. with my soulmate. I wish I could take. all your pain away. And I'm so sorry. And to my family, thank you for the. support and all the love you guys give. Thank you for fighting with me. I love. you all so much. Thank you.

>> I mean, she was emotional during it, but. I don't think I think a lot of the. emotion was just for herself cuz it's. sentencing. And this is a little bit. different from the speech she was. brainstorming with her mom on the phone. on the recorded jail lines because in. that one she says, "You can see I would. never let this happen or do it on. purpose. I'm just heartbroken. I wish I. could take all your pain away. Long live. the boys." And to my family and support, I thank you. I thank you all for seeing. the real under all these lies. Thank you.

for non-stop fighting for me and all the. love and support. I love you all so. much. I pray one day people won't see me. as a monster they're making me out to. be. Thank you. This was the first draft. >> Yeah, >> I would never let this happen or do it. on purpose. I am just heartbroken. I. wish I could take all your pain away. Long live the boys. To my family and. support, I thank you all for seeing the. real under all these lies. Thank you for. non-stop fighting for me and all the.

love and support. I love you all. And. then I pray one day people won't see me. as this monster they are making me out. to be. >> Makes sense. >> She spent more time talking about her. quote unquote supporter. >> Yeah, I it makes sense that her attorney. would just delete like all of that. Okay. I don't really think McKenzie. understands the full scope of what's. happened. In one conversation from jail, Mackenzie says she's got some sort of. message from someone named Benjamin. Harper. She's worried that this is. DaVon's neighbor. And she tells her mom, "I'm nervous for him to message me.

They're about to send me some hate. mail." And Natalie tells her, "Just. block it." No, it's okay. I'm going to. reply. I'm going to reply. I want them. to send messages like that. >> I want I want them to send me messages. like that. Like, I don't give a. Like, I know what I did. I know. what I didn't do. The only thing that. I'm guilty of is driving. >> But how do you know that if you don't. remember what happened? Also, her lack. of understanding reality is astonishing. In another phone call, she's talking to. her mom about said sentencing. So, this. is right before sentencing. She's found. guilty and she doesn't know how long. she's going to be sentenced to. And she. says,

>> "Look, I don't I'm about to like say I. don't want to go to court." Like type. >> When you don't have a choice, >> like what's the point of even having a. court date? Like I understand like they. already like they already is. like they're just me over. Like. what's the point of even going? Like. there's no point of even having court. anymore. Just give me a time and. just. >> tell me tell me so we can appeal this. >> She got sentenced to 15 years to life to. be served concurrently, which means she will be eligible for. parole in 15 years. though it seems. highly unlikely. Even the judge says.

it's probably unlikely, right? But. McKenzie says to her mom in a jail call, "But I'm surprised she only gave me like. 15.". >> But I'm surprised she only gave me like. 15. Like I thought she was going to give. me like 85 years. No, I really did think. she was either going to be death penalty. or life in prison. No parole. >> Yeah, >> but she gave me 15 years and I do get. parole. >> That's crazy as. >> Da's mom says, "I'll be honest. We were. taken aback when we found out that the. sentences were to run concurrently. We. were taken a back. She is essentially. serving the same sentence that she would. have if only one of the boys had been in.

the car. It's very hard to stomach. Mackenzie's parents have stomachs of. steel. They're trying to take this case. to the Supreme Court. Um, they did file. an appeal. So, after your conviction, you can file an appeal. They filed an. appeal. It was rejected. They filed a. second appeal, but they filed it one day. late. So, it has to be within the 365. days, but they filed it one day late. And they argued it was like confusing. because of leap year and everyone's like. um what the chillas state in interviews.

that they did not have a good defense. which is pretty par for the course for. appeals is to say that your attorneys. did not represent you well enough. That's pretty standard. They state that. they were bullied almost bullied into a. bench trial instead of a jury trial. Steve says if this was a jury trial. instead of a bench trial quote she would. have never been convicted. She'd be free. today. She'd be going on with her life. but she'd be free. That's the truth. But. to let you know, her lawyer when asked. her about a jury or a bench, she asked. for a jury and he talked her out of it. And then he starts talking about the.

judge. He says, "I mean that ego. I. don't know how she walks in and out of. the room with that kind of ego. It's. unfortunate that a sitting judge of that. long ruled that way and acted that way.". Later he argues, "You get pulled over. now in Strongsville speeding. It's. attempted murder. That's the precedent. they've set with this case.". >> I'm just so shocked that they still have. supporters. >> Yeah. I think this port comes from I do. think maybe the defense did do a good. job and they didn't bring in a medical. expert and they didn't rule out these.

world of possibilities. you know and I think when it's not ruled. out and I think because people come in. with probably the same feeling I have. which is our criminal justice system is. not the best so maybe it's like but we. can't because there are innocent people. in jail so we have to give some sort of. leeway and thought and I think they use. that to their advantage because I just. I'm lost. Yeah. But when the trial is happening, it seems like at some point they all. agreed on a bench trial. I mean, they. had to. Mackenzie had to agree on it. But even her parents in one jail call,

Natalie is saying, "Oh, and then one of. my friends was like, you made the right. decision with choosing a bench trial and. stuff." And I'm like, "Well, it wasn't. up to me." You know what I mean? But. thank you. And that made me start. crying. So, whatever happened up to this. point, Kenzie, is exactly that it's. supposed to be. We just have to trust. and put our faith in it. Okay. So, it. seems like you like a bench trial. In. another call, Mackenzie wordly asks her. mom if she should have done a jury. trial. To which Natalie says, no, no, because there's still other people that. are like, I don't care that she did this. and this and she should get the death.

penalty. That person doesn't know you. That's how some people are talking. Nope. You made the right choice. Regardless, um, they tried to take it up. to the Supreme Court of Ohio, which they. recently denied. Chief Justice of the. Supreme Court of Ohio, Sharon Kennedy, refused to review McKenzie's case, writing in a decision that she declines. to accept jurisdiction of the appeal. She could petition to the US Supreme. Court on a federal level, but anything. on a federal level is even more tedious. and even more of a lengthy process than.

on a state level. And it's just your. odds of that are not worth the fees. usually. Most likely her next big. milestone is her first parole hearing. that will be in 2037. And I know that. Dom and DaVon's families will most. likely be attending. And I think they. will be attending with a fire burning. passion to keep her behind bars. And I. would think it would be a very long shot. for her to be released on parole in. 2037. Which means if they reject her. parole, she has to wait anywhere between.

1 to 10 years. So like they tell you at. your parole hearing if you're denied, anywhere between 1 to 10 years. But the. fact that she's young would probably. make it less than 10. It has to legally. be less than 10, but it could be 10. It. could be nine. >> I just don't see her changing like the. way that the parents are acting, too. >> Yeah. Cheyenne says, "I don't know if. she still does it now, but when I was in. there, she was journaling every single. day. Date, timestamp, and she told me it. was for a book when she gets out." She. told me she had a modeling gig before.

she even came in. And she was like, "I. got offered a modeling gig before I came. in. I'm going to write a book when I get. out. I'm going to be a social media. influencer telling my story and all that. stuff. So, this is why um the families. are trying to do Dom and Davian's law. because in Ohio, the Son of Sam's laws, which protects. >> the victim's families from the. perpetrator profiting off their crimes, a lot of that in Ohio has not been. updated to include social media. >> Oh, >> right. So, I think it just includes a. lot of the traditional ways of making. money. So, I think they're trying to get.

those updated. I mean, this whole book thing. >> Yeah. And she also says about McKenzie, you know how in the Netflix documentary. she says, "I think about it every day.". And stuff like that. I'm not gonna say. she doesn't because I'm not in her head. every day. But her actions, I don't. think she does. And she's like, "Since. I've been gone, you know how I said. Juice was Jasmine's girlfriend. As soon. as I left, she started doing stuff with. Juice.". >> So Cheyenne's just like she's in there. like just doing things like she doesn't. I don't think she's thinking about it.

every day. And that is where we are with. the Mackenzie Sharilla case. I I know. that this was a very lengthy journey. that I just took you on, but I just. wanted to be as thorough as possible. And there was just so much in the FOIA. that I felt like, you know, pe you do have to pay. I I. forget how much it was, but like most. places you have to pay to get the FOIA. And then to have the leniency of time to. have people go through and like for me. to sit there and read like I know that a. lot of you guys are also working. So it. would have just been impossible. So.

hopefully that is as thorough as we can. get. Let me know your thoughts. What do. you think? Leave it in the comments. And. with that stay safe and I will see you. in the next one.