Former Reality TV Swinger Found Dead AFTER Hiring Hitman to Kill Her Rich Husband

Bada bing, bada boom. >> During the Olympics, if you ever watch. the equestrian games, you're looking at. a lot of science inside the horse. The. horses are the science. They are. fine-tuned like cars. I mean, they're. basically Formula 1 cars, but alive and. breathing, and that's, you know, horsepower. They are genetically tested. They're bred to make sure that they are. well bred, that they're well fit for the. games that they're entering. One lab. testing that you can get done on a horse.

is for the speed gene. It's a very. specific gene. If a horse has this. specific gene, they are going to be more. predisposed to develop what they call. the fast twitch muscles. They're perfect. for the sprint, but they're not going to. be endurance horses. So, the genes of a. horse can even tell you if a horse is. going to be predisposed to liking dirt. or turf, which is very important. The. lab says some clients will even have. their horses tested as soon as they're. born. Then they can just map out a plan.

for all of their individual horses, which trainer they're going to go see, which type of sport they're going to. specialize in. And there's a lot of. specialties. There's a lot of different. ways you can look at a horse. I mean, obviously, I'm not just talking from. like an opthalmology standpoint. Let's. start with English writing. You have d. often called horse ballet. It's how a. rider is able to guide their horse. through a complex movement performance. It's an Olympic sport. It's all about. the grace, the control of the horse. If.

you are me and you are uncultured and. you watch this on TV during the. Olympics, it looks like the horse did, didn't we? Yes. It's doing like a little. diance, like a little dance, >> like a little tippytoe dance. That's. what it looks like. The horse is. galloping in place. It looks like it's. just skipping in place. Which, side. note, when they skip in place, the horse. appears motionless at certain points, but that is exerting an enormous amount. of energy on the horse because trotting. in place defies the laws of motion for a. horse. >> Interesting.

>> It actually is like physically very. difficult. They're probably sweating. from trotting in place and I'm just. like, "Look at him. Look at the tippy. toes." That's what it is. These horses. have to train for like a minimum of 8 to. 12 years to do the tippy toe dance. >> Wow. >> That's D. Then you head into show. jumping. That's where the horses and the. riders, they have to clear a course of. obstacles. They look like fences without. knocking them down. It's about speed. It's about clearing the rounds, although. most of them look incredibly graceful, I. will say. But with any equestrian event, there has to be a lot of trust and.

relationship established between the. horse and the rider. Show jumping, with. that being said, so elegant, so. graceful, so beautiful. I could never do. that. It, if you've never seen it, I'm. just going to give you a visual in your. head for the audio listeners. You know. when you have the dog competitions and. you have the dog like jumping through. the obstacle courses. It's like that but. you're on the Australian shepherd's back. but also your outfit is great. It looks. good. It looks artistic. I'm uncultured. That's the only way I can describe it. The third of the English disciplines is. called eventing where you do dr show.

jumping cross country. Cross country is. essentially American Ninja Warrior but. on a horse. You go through like a full. outdoor obstacle course. You've got logs. in ditches of water. You've got water. features that complicate the horse. And. horses get spooked very easily. So, you. have to make sure that they don't get. spooked. And you get penalized for. refusals. That's when the horse is like, "Yeah, I'm not going to do that." You. get penalized for that. You get. penalized for falling, obviously. Or, interestingly, you get penalized for.

going too fast or too slow. >> I didn't know that was a thing. But you. can't. You have to be in the sweet spot. of a lot of time. You actually get. penalized if you're faster than that a. lot of time. Every second faster than. that little sweet spot time, you have a. penalty. >> Why is that? >> It's you want to I think that they're. also trying to prevent reckless, dangerous acts on a horse, >> by going too fast. And it's about like. the agility and the consistent speed. instead of just like bursts of sprinting. through. So, they're looking for a lot.

of different things. these sports, how. much of that is the horse doing the. sport versus the person on top of the. horse? >> Both. So, there are really, really good. riders, but the horses, that's why horse. juice for reproduction is one of the. most expensive liquids in the world. If. you have a really wellbred stallion, if. you have a really well-b show horse, their specimen to procreate other horses. can be very expensive [music] to.

purchase. So, it's all about the horse. lineage and also the rider. It's a. mixture of both. I mean, I don't know. It's hard to say, but I think the. western ones are a little bit more fun. So, the western riding disciplines and. competitions, you've got raining. This. is about the athletic prowess of the. horse. So, it's Dr. kind of more rodeo. level. I mean, it's all about how a. horse can do a series of patterns, sliding stops, spins, flying lead. changes. One Redditor says it primarily.

focused on moving your horse with very. little hand movements. The focus is on. using your seat and your legs almost. exclusively to control this horse. >> And the energy [music] is different. It. appears that it's taking place inside. like a dirt pit in a stadium. And I love. horses. I think they're so majestic. I. have an irrational fear of sustaining a. brain injury on a horse. But other than. that, I feel like they're smarter than. me. However, when you watch this for the. first time, all I can compare it to is. like when your dog has the zooies and. they're zooming and they're like.

skidding to a stop and you're on top of. the horse. That's what a lot of the. western competitions look like. And I'm. sure it takes a lot of skill. And then. you have, interestingly, I mean, you. also have like the equestrian events. that are more focused on the rider, about how the rider is able to control. their horse. Then you have like the show. horse events where it's really just. about the horse itself and their. breeding and their stance and all of. that as well as horse show performances. Cavalia [music] it's like cir meets.

horses acrobats on a horse. I mean these. are just a few shows and sports that. horses are the center of. And of course. sports like polo. I can't forget polo. before everyone gets mad at me. This is. a field that's three football fields. long. Everyone is on a horse. These. horses are like 1,000 lbs. Even though. they they're called polo ponies. They're. not ponies. They're massive horses. And. the writers have to use these little. mallets to hit and aim at this tiny. white ball. Each polo pony is going like. 30 m per hour. All their tails have to.

be wrapped so that nobody's equipment or. their tails don't get tangled with each. other causing injuries. It's a very. dangerous sport. Most elite polo players. have at least 10 polo ponies for one. match. They swap through the ponies in. one match because a few minutes of polo. ponying, the pony is tired and they have. to fly these horses in from all over the. parts of the world when they have a polo. match. But here's an interesting detail. Sometimes the polo ponies are all the. same. Not the same breed, not the same.

look, but genetic carbon copies. Genetic. clones of each other. >> What do you mean? >> They started cloning ponies. >> Lab made. >> Lab made from some of the best polo. ponies. They cloned them. >> That's crazy. >> There's one top player. He's from. Argentina, I believe, and he has six of. the same exact pony, genetically. speaking. They are clones. He has six. clones. There's a lot of drama there. I. mean, some people believe eventually. polo is going to be a game of who can. clone horses the best rather than who.

can play polo the best. Other people. think it's becoming even more expensive. to learn the sport of polo. There's a. lot of drama. Even who has the rights. over each clone. There's so much drama. there. There's a lot of scandals. It's a. very complicated story where players are. now saving genetic samples of their. horses skin in cryogenic storage. chambers. The horse world is crazy. >> It seems like each division of. equestrian sports. The horse world, they've got their own fair share of. scandals. And for Valatar, this is a.

horse show in California. They have a. lot of scandals. The owners of the horse. show Valatar [music] are this wealthy. couple. They're pretty conventionally. attractive as well. It's kind of. important later, but they're the. Remlley's. The Remlley's look like your. standard rich couple from San Diego. Mark Remley, the husband, he's a bit. older. He looks very fit, but in a nerdy. way. I don't know how to describe it. He. looks fit in the way that Jeff Bezos. looks fit. Like, you remember Jeff Bezos. as a bald nerd, and then now he's like.

jacked and bald, but you can just tell. it just doesn't sit normally with him. Like, he just doesn't move like he's. always been fit his whole life. >> Like genetically modified. Exactly. Like. it just doesn't feel like it just feels. like a little weird. I don't know if. it's the best look on him. >> He Mark Remley looks fit the way Jeff. Bezos looks fit. And then you have the. wife Tatiana Remley. And Tatiana, she's. blonde. She's got a Sports Illustrated. model cover body. And she's also the. star of the Valentar Horse Show. She's.

an equestrian. She's a writer. They've. invested over $20 million into the show. and they lose every single penny of it. I mean, the list of valitar scandals. goes on, but it includes horses get. abandoned with nothing to eat. Performers quit over massive creative. differences over Tatiana. Later, the. owners are known to be swingers at a. club that a lot of celebrities attend. And this is not necessarily a scandal, but that was more of an interesting side. quest. And former staffers will come out. to say more or less Tatiana doesn't even.

know how to ride a horse. >> Their horse show, what exactly do they. do? Like which branch of the. >> It's like division. >> like Kavalia. They are acrobats on. horses. >> Cirusle meets horses. >> So it's like performance, not like a. competition. >> No. >> I see. I see. >> And uh Tatiana doesn't even know how to. ride a horse. Well, and you're supposed. to be doing a handstand on a horse. that's galloping around the atrium. But. the biggest scandal to come out of. Valentar has to be the decapitated horse. head on the Remy's marital bed. It's not.

real though. Thank god. Okay. I mean, it. happened, but it's not a real horse. head. It's a decapitated horse head from. one of their very expensive horse. statues that they have in their front. lawn of their 5.5 million dollar house. in Delmare, California. This is near San. Diego. And it's clearly not a mistake. No one, it's not like one of their. housekeepers accidentally knocked over. the statue while sweeping and in a. moment of panic, they placed the. decapitated horse statue head on the. couple's bed, changed their government. name, ran off to a new state to start a. new business. That is not the case here.

This is a targeted message. This is a. threat. And by the end of it, one of the. Remlleys, [music] one of the founders of. the Valatar Hor Show will be dead. [music]. [music].

We would like to thank today's sponsors. who made it possible for Rotten Mango to. support the National Immigration Law. Coalition. NILC is one of the leading. advocacy organizations in the US. dedicated to advancing and defending the. rights and opportunities of immigrants. and their loved ones. This episode's. partnerships have also made it possible. to support Rotten Mango's growing team. And we'd also like to thank you guys for. your continued support. As always, full. show notes are available at. rottenopodcast.com. A few disclaimers. There are mentions of potential CA. religious trauma though very brief. Um.

and additionally mental health and. self-exit conversations. So please take. care of yourself and this becomes too. much. Take a break and we will see you. in the next one. With that being said, let's get started. When it comes to the. ultimate fantasy, the saying is, you. know, no two are the same, right? That. doesn't apply. Everyone has similar. fantasies and interests. Apparently, you. like watching your partner have intimate. relations with somebody else in front of. you. Yeah. So did Diddy. Okay. get in. line for the chair. There's lots of. people. Now, the usage of ropes, there's.

a whole community built on the art of. tying rope on somebody. However, even if. you have this super niche specialized. interest where you think there's nobody. else that has the same fantasy as I do, they are ready. Such as watching Lady. Antu Twinette do the bounce on a. champagne bottle. A historical figure. from France do the bounce on a champagne. bottle. If you have thought about that. extensively at night and it keeps you. up, you are not entirely alone and there. is someone here to make it happen for.

you. The Sanctum Club. This is the place. where nothing legal is off the table. There are lots of places where you. [music] can go and watch your partner. have intimate relations with someone. else right in front of your face. But. none of them are like the Sanctum Club. That's what all the Sanctum members will. tell you. Sanctum Club is an elite sex. club in Beverly Hills that has been. called half pagan sex cult, half. entertainment mogul afterparty sex club. >> Can we say that one more time? Half. what? >> Yeah, it some people think it's like a. pagan sex cult. It's like not super.

religious. >> Oh. >> Or it's a half entertainment mogul. afterparty sex club. So where all the. Hollywood directors go after the Oscars. and they watch everybody do the bounce. Okay, that's like which one is it? We. don't know. It's. >> still operating. >> It is still operating with new owners. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Actually, one of the members. bought out the club and they operate it. I did go on like I I fell down a rabbit. hole on Reddit. Some people say it's. past its prime time.

>> So, there's like lots of debates of. which club and I think they do a lot of. more parties and events in New York. And. then I went down the whole rabbit hole. and they said, you know, the best. parties in New York are the ones that. you need an invite to that nobody really. knows the club name. Anyway, [laughter]. okay. It's up to you to decide which is. a more fitting description for a. sanctum. You usually don't even know. who's going to be in attendance. beforehand. You have to give up your. phone at the door. You have to sign an. ironclad NDA before going in. The only.

reason that we even know about this club. is, well, for how secretive they are, they've got a whole season of a reality. show online readily available to watch. And we're going to get more into that. later because Tatiana and Mark Remley. are on the show. Okay, >> that plus a few writers and a few column. writers, journalists were allowed inside. and were able to describe the party. without mentioning any specific [music]. guest. Each party is different. Each. crowd of attendees is different, but for. each party, you have a group of. devotees. These are the performers that.

work for Sanctum. That's what they're. called. They are the erotic theater. performers. They're the show. Depending. on the theme, their performance will. differ. Sometimes it consists of them. dressing up as bunnies and standing as. still as possible as human furniture. that you can grow. Other times after a. private dinner party, these devotees. will climb on top of the dinner table. and carry on with consumption of things. that are not food. >> What? >> They're all eating each other. Okay.

They're all doing nasty to each other on. the dinner table after the dinner party. I do think the health department might. take issue with that, but it's not a. restaurant establishment. It's a private. party, so I guess perhaps it gets a. pass. Sometimes the performance will. include one of the devotees dressed up. as Lady Antuinette, a historical figure, sitting on top of a coffee table doing. ungodly, unspeakable things to a. champagne bottle that hasn't been popped. yet. And the only thing I can think of. is that seems really dangerous because. at least you should empty it, right?

>> Yeah, that's crazy. >> But the most important part about. Sanctum Club, >> that's actually really alarming. >> Yeah, I know. And it was on the reality. show. >> Oh. >> Oh yeah. >> What is on the reality show? The. performances on the reality show. >> Lots of stuff was on the reality show. >> Okay. Wow. >> Yeah. Lots of stuff. So, but the most. important part about Sanctum Club is. that your biggest fears, they tell you. the biggest fears that you have about an. intimate club is not going to come true. What is the biggest fear? If you go on.

Reddit and you look up biggest fear. about going to a sex club, an intimate. club, everyone is going to be unhygienic. and ugly. That's people's biggest fears. What if I go and I'm the hottest one in. the room and I'm not even that hot? That's what people say on Reddit. Okay, people attending the clubs are scared to. go see, god forbid, ugly people. That's. terrifying for them. Then the next fear. is that everyone at the better clubs, right? Sometimes you go to an elite club. and you're like, "Okay, well surely the.

pool's going to be better here." And. then you go and you find really ugly old. rich dudes and really hot young girls. and that's it. So there's lots of fears. with Sanctum Club. They say this doesn't. happen because even the old ugly rich. guys, they get vetted and you can't be. too old and you can't be too ugly. You. can never be too rich though. With. Sanctum Club, those that have attended. say you don't have to worry. I mean, first of all, the women outweigh the men. in numbers. most of the time and they're. all wearing like expensive bras that.

cost over $1,000 for one bra. High. heels, everybody's fit, everybody's. attractive, everybody's wearing a mask. It looks like Cirusle meets a Victoria. Secret fashion show. People refer to it. as quote the most glamorous sex party. I've ever been to. It's like the movies. Eyes Wide Shut with Tom Cruz and Nicole. Kidman. >> Is it this is all legal? >> Yeah. >> Oh, interesting. Okay. Apparently a lot. of the devotees are not hired like. they're not paid for performing. >> Oh. >> So I think there's like legal loopholes.

>> Oh. So okay. I see. >> Yeah. Which. >> So what is everyone doing there? >> Each other. >> Yeah. >> Oh. >> So you pay to get in. You pay to be a. member. First of all, you need to buy. membership. And that ranges from 30,000. a year to could be a h 100,000. And then. you pay to get into each party. >> That's crazy. And then once you get in, I'm sure that there are concessions like. free drinks and free food, but that's. not really what people are there for. They're there to do other things. Yeah.

>> What? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> But I think the prices have changed. I. think those were the prices at its. height. If I'm not mistaken, on Reddit. recently, they had a couple go in for. like $1,000 for the couple. It's insane. Yes, it's insane. But they were not. paying a whole salary a year to be a. member. Former partygoers would argue. Damon, the original founder of Synctum, he was so selective about who he let. into the doors. It wasn't some cheap sex. party where everybody brings a date and. you automatically swap. There's a very.

big [music] difference between a sex. party and a sanctum party. The founder. Damon states, "I have no desire for a. swinger party here, but I do want to. open dialogue about how we can come out. of our fear of sexuality. So, in order. to enter, you must send a message on. Facebook to Sanctum. At least that's how. it started. Eventually, they get so big. they have their own like curated. submissions page. It's just very tedious. to [music] get an invite. There's no. guarantee to even pay to be a guest at. one of the parties. You have to submit. photos of yourself. You have to appear. presentable. You have to answer.

questions such as, "What turns you on. the most?" Now, link all of your social. media handles so we can vet you. You're. supposed to be honest, but you can't. help but feel like there's a right. answer for every question. Like, what do. you mean is the hottest thing I've done? I feel like this is I mean, what do you. mean now? I feel like I'm answering an. SAT test. You will be likely given an. address to pick up your tickets. It's a. lingerie shop in Hollywood. You walk in, you tell them what you're here for. The. staff walk to the back and they come out. with your invite on a silver platter. You have now wasted approximately two.

business days of energy to get this. invite, but maybe [music] it's worth it. And it's all on purpose. Damon, the. founder, says, "It's the opposite of. what most club owners want. I absolutely. did not want 500 people outside. clamoring to get in. I love the puzzle. of getting there, but it's deeper than. that. It's more meaningful. It's our. most basic human desires, but beautiful. The owner calls it quote spiritual and. erotic utopia, where people of like. minds and desires can have as much. intimate deeds and romance as humanly.

possible in as many different ways as. the imagination can invent. One former. performer at the club says about the. founder, [music] "He is like the. modern-day sex Jesus. I kind of feel. like he sacrificed himself for the. greater good of creating a culture for. people that was needed especially in a. city like Los Angeles. I think that's. why they call it like half pagan sex. club. So. >> Esquire states about one party's guest. list. Among those confirmed are a man. who owns multiple hotels in New York. City, a billionaire from Moscow, several.

wealthy couples who have been married. for more than 20 years, the producer of. a number of well-known television shows, an actress with a reputable IMBD page, the 21-year-old son of a movie producer, International Models, and a couple. opening a big new store near Rodeo. Drive. According to Business Insider, they state that the alleged celebrity. guest at events include Gwyneth Paltro. and Yeah. the founder of Goop. Yeah. And. >> they just name dropped. >> Yeah. But they said allegedly and. Business Insider said it and they have a.

lot more money, so go sue them first, right? So. >> what. >> even the devotees are handpicked with. strict guidelines. It's not just about. being physically hot. One woman was. picked on the spot because quote one. woman said to me, "I want to perform at. Sanctum and then I want to become a. politician and then get outed in a sex. scandal so that I can point out the. hypocrisy in society and they said. you're in. >> How do we know this? They just told the. story." Okay. >> They do private masquerades, erotic. parties, erotic theater, and some of it.

is very like it's not just eyes wide. shut. You know how everyone was talking. about the Rothschild's parties where. they hunt people where they have like. the animal masks on? they kind of. recreate those. So, you'll have very hot. women with giant horse heads, very. realistic ones that are not hot and not. fun. They look very real. And then. they'll have like Mary and Twinette was. doing the deed with her horse, but that. horse was a woman who dressed up as a. horse with a very realistic horse head.

Sometimes it's elephant heads, and. they'll try to stick elephant trunks in. places where they probably shouldn't be. stuck. They used to do a monthly. masquerade in New York and people will. fly in from all over the world for these. masquerades. Damon, the club owner, says. that every Sanctum member has to pass an. application process, run background. checks, basic memberships start at. 30,000 a year, and they have Dominus. members, which is 100,000 a year, and. they will tailor bespoke [music] erotic. requests for you. And just because you.

have money doesn't mean you can become a. top tier member. They only offer that. level of membership to 20 people. worldwide. And one of the main reasons. that we actually know about Sanctum Club. on a larger scale is because [music] the. founder took to Instagram previously to. write, "Hunter was a member of Sanctum. and I canceled his membership after one. party because he was a scumbag.". >> Hunter who? >> Hunter Biden, >> which Sanctum's former founder, he this. is after he sold Sanctum. This he went. online and said Hunter Biden was a. former member. Allegedly, this is what.

he said, not what I said, so don't sue. me. >> That is what. >> Yeah. Wow. >> He says the only reason that he would go. against his own former club's rules of. not outing a member is quote, "Posting. what I did on my Instagram about Hunter. Biden was me letting people know what. type of behavior that he exhibited was. something that upset me. I knew the. consequences could be me not being part. of Sanctum anymore, but I was willing to. take that risk." Sanctum was bought out. by a former member at this point, and. they released a prompt statement. Sanctum is a private members club, and. they prioritize safety and privacy.

[music] of our esteemed members above. all. Consequently, we neither confirm. nor deny the identities of our. attendees. Furthermore, we uphold a. strict code of [music] conduct and any. infringement leads to a lifetime ban. Please note that Mr. Lner's membership. has been revoked effective immediately. >> The previous owner? >> Yes. The founder. >> When was this? Like when was it bought. out? >> This is a few years ago. >> Really? This is recent. I'm assuming. there are many of these clubs that. exists then, right? >> Yes. I mean, there's one in New York. that's very famous on Tik Tok. It's. called The Box. It's very different. So,

Sanctum is different in the sense of. like it's an elite club where everyone. is free to explore. The box is like a. bar business club in [music] New York, but I believe there's a few in Europe. that a lot of Americans like to try to. get into, but they're I think the way. that they're described is they're a bit. like runchier. They're a little bit more. on the Don't ask me why I fell into this. rabbit hole, but there's so many. different variations of clubs. So, some. of the clubs, they're more on that. runchy shock value sex factor. This is.

where it's just all about shock. People. say it's not even hot. It's just. shocking cuz like you'll just see. someone have bodily fluids empty into a. bucket and they're just like swinging it. around in the club. It's sometimes. unhygienic, just shocking, just what the. is happening. And then you have maybe. the clubs that are more sexually. inclined but more artistic, maybe more. so like a burlesque club. And then you. have like the super hot clubs like strip. clubs. M. >> And then you have sex clubs which are.

different because you're free to have. intimate relations in the establishment. or at the party venue. They'll even have. beds usually and different types of. furniture. And it's set up so that. you're encouraged to join in the. activity. Most of these clubs in New. York, like these public establishments, when you're of age, they're not. encouraging you to do anything. In fact, you could probably get arrested. >> Okay. >> It's just like that's the entertainment. That's the show. >> I see. I see. I But Sanctum, it's. there's a show and there's an. interactive element. And then there are.

clubs where there are no shows, lots in. Vegas where there's tons of rooms with. tons of mattresses and beds that I think. you should probably like do a blue light. or a black light, whatever. Black light. on. And there are like swingers clubs. So there's no show, but lots of. like-minded people gather and they will. do things with each other. So it's like. Sanctum without the show. >> Right. Okay. I see. That makes sense. So, there's like lots of different. variations, and there are an alarming. amount of girls on Reddit that were.

invited to one of these establishments. by their boyfriend, and they were not. specified on which kind of establishment. that they were invited to because they. all thought they were going to be like. the box in New York, and then they end. up in like a Las Vegas swinger club. So, just be very careful. >> That's alarming. >> Yeah. And there's also lots of Reddit. posts of people who have gone to. different establishments and had. fantastic times, phenomenal times, best. times of their lives. Some people write. about how it saved their marriage, which. I don't know, right? But there are also. people who say just beware of something.

that no one tells you about. There will. be very specific smells that you will. never be able to unsmell. No matter how. high-end a place is, no matter how. hygienic a place is, when you have that. many people and you have that many. bodily fluids and you have that many. activities taking place in a closed. space, there will be smells and you will. get away with that smell and you will. never forget it. >> In a bad way. >> Yeah. Oh god. >> Even one of the journalists that went to. the Sanctum Club, one of the parties. says everything was so high and so. beautiful. Every woman felt like a.

supermodel. Everybody was hot. Even the. guys were hot and they're all dressed to. the nines with these fancy masks. It's a. masquerade party. But then they went. into the bathroom to fix their lipstick. And someone had just taken a number two. because money can't buy your way out of. digestive issues. So it was very smelly. in that one bathroom. That's all they. said. >> Okay. But that's a different. >> Yeah, that's a very different story. >> Like a bathroom smell. Yeah, >> but there's just scents involved in. everywhere. That's what they say. But. Sanctum has had its own share of lots of.

scandals. There was a former member of. Sanctum that left and they accused. Sanctum of admitting a performer who had. an active [music] STD. That became a. whole scandal. But the worst scandal to. come out of Sanctum Club, the worst. thing, I don't even think you could call. it a scandal, is when one member of the. Sanctum Club tried to have another. member killed. Cavalia is what you would consider an. equestrian fantasy. This is the horse. show. This is completely unrelated to.

Sanctum Club. Kavalia, it's Cirusle. meets the horse shows. It's like a blend. of horseback riding and doing flips. [music] And it's so much about the. horses. The performance is built around. the idea that the horses are the main. show. Humans are the side plots. [music]. So, you see this stage and it's. enormous. There's water tanks that they. have to fill to look like a beach. almost. And the horses are galloping. through the sand and the water. And. there's acrobats flying in the air. There's tight ropes. There's acrobats.

doing handstands on the horses as. they're galloping. One performance, dangerous, one of the most dangerous. performances really of Kavalia includes. a writer standing with one foot on one. horse, another foot on the other horse. while the horses weave patterns and jump. obstacles. >> There's very little margin for error. And you know, you have to know a horse. really well. They these types of. performers say you have to be able to. see when a horse's ear flicks just a. little bit because even like a little. ear flick of the horse, maybe they're.

getting spooked by something. Maybe. they're agitated. Maybe something is. uncomfortable in their hoof, like their. little hoof. >> During its peak, Cavalia was bringing in. $40 million a year, but they have since. filed for bankruptcy, citing that they. are close to $30 million in debt. But. that was, you know, that's recent in. this year. A few years ago, they were at. its peak. That's when Tatiana and Mark. Remley decide that they're going to take. Cavalia down. They want to compete with. Cavalia and make their own horse show,

but better and probably hotter. Tatiana, with her blonde hair slightly covering. her face, she tells a local reporter in. San Diego who's reporting on this like. this massive red tent. And they find out. it's called Valatar, the new horse show. that's coming into business soon. She. says, "When I was around 14, I went. [music] to a Russian Kazak circus. It's. different than your regular circuses in. the US. It's just stunning. A lot of. amazing riding, riding with a rider.

going under the horse, under the belly. at a, you know, fast gallop, just edge. of your seat suspension, just intensity. And it hit me. It was just this desire. started going into me to want to create. a show that's different from anything. that's ever been created. I'm so. excited. This is my dream come true and. I want to bring this magic to the lives. of everyone that will allow me to bring. it to them. A lot of people love horses. and can't have them. And so by coming. here, they live this dream and they can. touch them and come close to them and.

see them and experience the magic. >> What What year was this? >> This was early. This was like they went. I believe they closed down in 2019. >> How long did they run it for? Like a few. years? [laughter]. >> Two shows. like four shows. >> Oh, okay. Oh, wow. >> Yeah, it was in production for a really. long time, but actively in business and. you could go watch their horse show. Four shows. >> Okay. >> The opus of Valatar lies in this.

gargantuan red tent in the middle of. Delmare, California. It looks like a. giant red circus tent for a state fair, but massively bigger. There are also. four small tents connected to the big. one. Collectively under this tent, it's. 45,000 square ft. >> Damn, >> it's a huge tent. That's bigger than a. neighborhood suburban shopping center. fit inside of this giant red. weatherproof tent held up by this. massive steel structure. The tent alone. costs over $2.1 million. The plan is.

this. Mark Ramley is a tech. entrepreneur. We like some of his. software. What the does he know about. horses? Nothing. Mark Remley knows. nothing about horses. >> The husband. >> Yeah. Tatiana, the wife, Tatiana Remley, has been riding horses ever since she. was a kid. But is she an equestrian? Is. she the best horse rider? Probably not. >> You say he's a tech founder? Is he like. really loaded? Like a billionaire?

>> No, he's he's worth about $30 million. He's not a billionaire. His tech. corporation was Signal Corp. unrelated. to signal messaging app, but they were a. defense contractor. >> Yeah, I guess we don't like some of his. software, but anyway, Tatiana has been. riding horses ever since she was a kid, and [music] she thinks, "I got it. I'm. going to do Valentar. I'm going to plan. the show. We're going to fly in all of. these writers, all of these directors, producers, performers from all over the.

country, and be a part of this exciting. mission. You want to see someone do a. headstand on a moving horse? You got to. come to Valatar. Or you could go to. Cavalia that's like 20 minutes away. But. no, come to Valatar. It's better. It's. newer. And Tatiana is going to be the. face of it. There are billboards put up. all over Southern California and. randomly in seemingly bizarre places in. the West Coast where Valatar is not even. present like Seattle. We'll get there. The billboard shows these two edited. stallions, black stallions with their.

manes like in the air and they're facing. in opposite directions and then Tatiana. is in the middle holding a stick. It. kind of looks like an AI generated. medieval times type of poster or like a. strip club billboard. That's what most. people describe it as. The marketing. feels a bit seductive. Like I don't know. if this is a family-friendly horse show. I don't know what this is really. But. after bringing in a team of producers, directors, they put together this. choreographed performance [music]. that's ready to go. They have to get.

housing for all the performers. They. have to feed the horses, insurance, a. parking lot, administrative work, HR. They got to spend over $20 million on. this project. But once they launch in. November, they have this whole plan. November and December, they're going to. have 45 shows in 2 months. The launch. party, the most important night for. everybody. The launch party is what sets. the tone for the rest of the. performances. If I go to a launch party, I'm expecting it to be the vision, the. essence of the entire company's mission.

in one night of good food and hopefully. a free drink or two because networking. is incredibly awkward. Tatiana, I don't. know what's happening here. She's. holding a belt in one hand. The rest of. the belt is tied around her husband. Mark's neck and she's leading him around. like a dog. I don't even think you lead. a horse around like that. So, I didn't. understand the marketing vision, but the. whole launch party, she's just like. walking him around like a dog.

>> Okay. >> So, he's supposed to be like a horse. that she's like walking around. Is that. what it is? >> I don't even think they thought that. far. I don't even think it's cohesive. marketing. I think that's just what. they're into. And everyone was just. confused by what's going on. >> Okay. And there are just full forums. about lessons that you are not prepared. for until you start your own business. And then you just kind of learn it the. way like the cheapest client is the most. expensive client. I don't know what that. means, but a lot of business owners were. sounding off in the comments like. exactly [music].

>> the cheapest client. >> is the most expensive client. >> Uh that makes sense. >> I guess your cheapest client is going to. cost you the most money or whatever, right? Yeah, but when you start a. business with horses, probably the. biggest alarming red flag you'll learn. as a business owner is when the horses. start going missing. Something is very. wrong. Huh. >> One producer of the show, Valatar, let's. call her Emma. She invested over $25,000. of her own money into Valent. She moved. here with her horses. And after two. performances, Valatar had two.

performances, opening night and the. second performance. There's just a lot. that could have been done better. They. gather all the performers, producers, directors, all the staff in the massive. tent. Maybe not the horses. And I. imagine there's this very uplifting, [music] motivating, but realistic. conversation of like, let's take a few. days off. Let's get some rest. Let's. recoup. We did good, but we can do. better. You know, let's think about all. the ways that we can fix these little. things. You know, we had one customer. who said this, another person did this.

Obviously, this was a big massive. failure because we had a line of. complaints like this. The shows. themselves weren't necessarily. horrendous, but the turnout was a lot. slower than expected. Way slower, a lot. of empty sleeps. I mean, it just made an. uncomfortable opening night. But also, there were just awkward moments in the. show they can fix. Nevertheless, everybody gets a few days off except. [music] Emma. She comes back cuz she's. got to feed the horses. The horses don't. know what an off day is. They need to. eat. And when she goes to the stables, a. good chunk of the horses are gone. They're missing. And they're all the.

Remly couple's personal horses. It's weird, but Tatiana is always doing. weird things. Emma doesn't even think. anything of it. She leaves and then. comes back that night to check up on the. horses again. And pretty much all the. Remly horses are gone. And so she's. asking around and one of the other. staffers, who's not really part of the. performance, but maybe more so keeping. the grounds, they're like, "Oh yeah, the. Remly said something about how they were. going to do a photo shoot, so they took. all the horses for the photo shoot.". Emma checks in the back. They didn't.

just take the horses. They took their. harnesses, their ts, the cabinets were. filled with medicine for the horses. All. gone. Emma starts freaking out. She. tries to calling the Remlies to figure. out what's going on. If they know that. their horses are missing, and when she. gets a response, it's very cold, as if. they didn't just spend the past few. months of their lives completely. intertwined trying to plan this entirely. new horse show. She gets a response. The. show is being cancelled due to poor. ticket sales. This is after $20 million invested.

>> Yes. >> That is bizarre. >> That's just it. The Remlley's don't come. back. They take their horses. They leave. everybody everybody else's horses. The. giant red circus tent. They just leave. 26 horses, 21 performers, five kids, one. dog, and one cat completely stranded. Nobody was paid. Nobody has money to. transport themselves, let alone a horse. safely back to their home. Nobody even. has money to feed the horses because. that was supposed to be included.

Everyone, for a lack of better words, they were just left to starve. >> Damn. >> So, what the hell went wrong? A. competitive horse rider who was brought. in to help direct the show says, "Yeah, well, the Remlleys had no idea what they. were doing about anything, which is. pretty accurate. Cavalia, the experience. horse show, just 23 mi away. Why would. anyone go to Valentar?" But even though. they have no clue what they're doing, the director says it quickly became the. Mark and Tatiana show except neither of.

them are horse people and neither of. them are show people. So what are we. doing? They have no clue what they're. doing. And that is going to lead them to. leave [music] a huge group of people. And the rest of the San Diego community. who now has to pick up and they're all. volunteering to try and feed the horses. and get everybody back home because. Delmare, California is a pretty. tight-knit community. They are angry at. the Remlleys and they want the Remlley's. to pay their dues which ultimately ends. with [music] a decapitated horse statue.

head ending up in the Remley family bed. And when they have that many enemies, it's really hard to say who's after Mark. and Tatiana. Everybody is left high and. dry at the Valentar horse show. The. horses are left, the performers are. left. That's not even figurative. This. is like real. The horses are left to. starve. One of the biggest problems with. the show that a lot of people say in. hindsight is that Tatiana sucks at. riding horses. And that's mean, right? She's fine. She's mediocre, but she has.

nowhere near the writing ability that. seasoned professionals have. You cannot. compare a weekend golfer to someone at. the PGA. But Mark and Tatiana want her. to be the star of the show. And. everybody else has to accommodate her, even if that means they have to lower. their skills to make sure that she. shines the hardest. I mean, to give you. a little bit more context on Tatiana's. capabilities, she would often just go. out there. So, they had two shows. Her. face is plastered all over the. billboards. If I buy a ticket to. Valentar, what am I expecting? When this.

blonde woman comes out on a horse, I'm. expecting a somersault in the air, land. on a horse, and then do a headstand, eat. your lunch off your feet. Like, I'm. expecting some sort of, holy cow, this. is the most climactic part of this. entire performance. this was worth all. this money that I could have used for, I. don't know, bills, but onstead a horse. show. Like, I'm getting something out of. this, right? She would just come out on. her horse and do a few figure eights,

not on the horse. Like, she's not doing. figure8s on the horse. She's just riding. the horse like a normal person. And the. horse is doing figure eights. It's not. like she's walking. Like, the horse is. just trotting in a figure eight. And the. whole thing is awkward because everybody. in the crowd, the customers, they're. sitting at the edge of their seat. They're holding their breath. The music. is getting more climactic. They're. expecting something insane. But then she. just disappears. It's said by people who. went to the first two performances. Nobody even knew how to respond. So they were just all looking at the.

person that they came with like what? And clapping like what's happening? This. caused so much tension that a lot of the. seasoned professionals that would have. performed to bring in the viewers, they. all end up leaving. There are. allegations that the couples just they. also just spent money that didn't make. any sense. Some people said that they. were willing to spend unreasonable. amounts of money on billboard. advertisements with Tatiana's face. everywhere. They were willing to spend. money on Tatiana's costumes, but then. when a horse would get injured, they. would cheapen out.

>> So, they're trying to do this thing for. all the wrong reasons. Yes. >> Like she wanted to be like a celebrity. horse rider. >> Yeah. I don't even think she wants to be. a celebrity horse rider. A mutual friend. of theirs would later come out and say. her goal in life was to be a housewife, but not the housewife you're thinking. One of the housewives of a major city on. the Bravo TV network. >> Housewives of Orange County. >> Real Housewives. >> Yeah. The Real Housewives of Beverly. Hills. That was the her goal. >> Yeah. >> And she she spent $20 million.

>> Yeah. >> I feel like there's got to be a cheaper. way. I feel like you could have paid. >> I don't know who the is it still the. Cohen guy you could have paid I feel. like bribery could have been a good. answer for that one. >> someone in the Bravo TV network I think. you could have bribed them for way less. than $20 million. >> no offense. >> that's crazy. >> in another instance this is very dumb. but apparently Tatiana just shows up one. day with a new horse and just casually. mentions oh I got a new horse okay these.

are horse people they know horses and. there really is no price, no value that. you can put on a majestic horse's life. But you can, cuz that is a $30,000. horse. You can. That's a $30,000 horse. They ask her how much she paid for it. $70,000. Again, you can't put a price on. life. You can't put a price on a horse, but that's a $30,000 horse. >> She got scammed. >> Yes. She got scammed $40,000 more. A. mutual friend who witnessed this later.

says the asking price for the horse at. the time was $30,000. So, she managed to. spend $40,000 more than the asking price. just because she decided she wanted that. horse and someone saw a sucker written. on her face. I guess. >> that was their quote, not mine. >> Wow. >> Yeah. [music]. Let's be real. Starting something new is. it's not just hard, it is terrifying. And when you're launching a business,

that fear, I think, gets amplified about. a thousand times. You're putting. yourself out there. You're investing. your time and money, and you hope that. people are going to believe in what you. believe and what you're building. And. that's exactly why having a partner like. Shopify makes all the difference. Shopify is the commerce platform behind. millions of businesses around the world. and 10% of all e-commerce in the US. This includes iconic brands like Aloe. Yoga, Rare Beauty, Chamberlain Coffee. When my husband and I opened Grandpa. Mingo's art studio selling his.

grandfather's limited edition paintings, some of our favorite Shopify features. were the ones that we didn't even know. that we needed. The marketing tools. alone are incredible. You can create. email campaigns, social media content. that looks like you have an entire. marketing team behind you, reaching your. customers wherever they're scrolling. through Instagram or browsing online. It. is time to turn those what-ifs into. sales with Shopify today. Sign up for. your $1 per month trial today at. shopify.com/rotten. Go to shopify.com/rotten.

That's shopify.com/rotten. After the fall of Valentar, the Remlies. come home one day and one of the. valuable horse statues in the house is. left decapitated on their bed. Like I. said, it's a threat at this point. Mark. and Tatiana, they have a lot of enemies, a lot of people who hate them. >> So, someone broke into their house. One. of the. >> Yes. forced their way in. >> Forced their way in. >> And Tatiana claims she knows exactly who.

did this. She knows exactly who's behind. it. It's none other than her own. husband, Mark Remley. I think stereotypes are inherently. really bad, but one could argue that. Mark and Tatiana don't really care. They. kind of fit it. Everyone around them. knew it. Mark is rich, worth close to. $30 million. Tatiana is very hot. I. would say out of couples I've seen in. Southern California, there isn't even a.

massive discrepancy in appearance. between the two. Both of them are. conventionally attractive. They seemed. like they would hit it off. >> How old are they? >> There. He's probably like in his 50s. >> She's probably in her 30s at this point. >> Oh, yeah. Okay. >> To 40s. >> 40s. Okay. They meet at a Starbucks, a. chance meeting. Mark falls in love, marries Tatiana, moves her into his $5.5. million house, and now they're on a. reality show called Naked Sanctum. [music] It's all about the Sanctum sex. club. It's a whole season, a documentary.

following the founder, Damon. He goes. around and it shows him preparing for. these sexual erotic events while his. entire family life falls apart. It's. like riveting and depressing at the same. time. The minute things start getting. hot, if you will, in the documentary, it. cuts to him being like, "Yeah, so my. daughters won't talk to me anymore. because they're getting bullied at. school because someone found out about. my job on Instagram and um yeah, they're. bullying them." And I'm like, "Oh, that's not the right time to put that. part in." And then it cuts to him having. like a threeperson intimate party with.

two young girls of age, women of age in. his bedroom. And then it's just like a. monologue. It cuts to him sitting there. being like, "I miss my ex-wife. >> What? I think she was my soulmate, but. she left me because I chose this life. and she didn't. And then it just like. cuts to like moaning noises, Maryanne. Twinette with a champagne bottle, and. then it cuts to him being like, I'm. actually really lonely. So, I'm like, okay, I don't know how to feel. Damon is. a very on like a main like a network or.

on TV. >> I mean, you can watch it on streaming. platforms right now. >> and there's a lot. Damon is a very. interesting guy. He says he has a lot of. knowledge of the human intimate. experience now just from running. Sanctum. He says you know a lot of. husbands they bring their wives and. watching their wives interact and have. intense intimate relations with another. person in front of them is hot. Basically he's talking about cucks. He. says the guys I've talked to directly. about it say they get turned on seeing. their partner turned on. They genuinely.

don't have jealousy or fear. They know. that the woman's coming home with them. They know that they're not worried and. they really like to see their partner. get pleasure from somebody else. That. just turns them on. Also, of course, they're with another woman, so they have. freedom, too. So, I'm like, "Okay, maybe. they're swinging." Even for a couple. that don't do anything, you know, a guy. sees other guys hitting on his wife and. he's like, "Oh, yeah. I forgot my wife. is hot. I forgot how hot she is." Or. like, you know, the same thing in the. other direction. It was healthy for a. lot of people. You know, a lot of people. told me it saved their marriage, but.

obviously it's not just a great. therapeutic experience for married. couples. He mentions one time there was. this very famous actress [music] who. came into an open room just having. intense intimate relations with her. husband and another guy. And he says, "I. could tell she was on too much Xanax or. something and it was like like it was. not good. We had to break it up cuz it. seemed like she was not in her right. mind." which I believe now that he's. left Sanctum, if you're interested in. following his life ever, he owns a a. restaurant bar on Sunset Boulevard in LA.

called Puzzle. It's kind of like. Sanctum. There's dancers, but it's a. dinner and you can't have full-blown. intimate relations. But one review from. someone, I don't think they realized the. environment they were getting into. The. review reads, "We went to Puzzle last. weekend for my birthday. We went to the. restaurant and the lady who was. attending to us, first of all, was. clueless. It was a tiny place, barely 10. tables. Music was no good. The singers. were singing and dancing literally on. top of our heads. The dancing lady did. nothing but take off her clothes with. the music and stayed almost naked the.

whole time. I was confused. >> Yeah. [sighs]. >> But in the reality show that aired a few. years back, there's a very specific. couple on there. A couple shows up under. the pseudonyms of Vladimir and his wife. Ilana, but they get invited to this. exclusive. So Damon is holding a private. dinner at his house in the Hollywood. Hills. I believe very close to the. Playboy Mansion, which would also make. it very close to Shaun Daddy Combmes's. house. Here we are again, right? But.

they will eat, they will watch each. other eat, and they will eat and they. will eat other things and watch each. other eat other things and then repeat. And not all the steps are obviously. involving food, but Vladimir and his. wife are seated at the table. These are. pseudonyms. It's not Vladimir and. Iliana. It's Mark Remley and Tatiana. Remley just sitting there in the flesh. Okay. Mark Remley says, "What Damon has. created here is an opportunity for. people to open their minds." Tatiana is.

just staring lovingly at her husband as. if he just discovered. quantum physics. She's like nodding and. then she chimes in. I'm all about. pushing limits and we're going to follow. sanctum and we're going to go where it. goes and just [music] pursue it and. enjoy it and life and pursue ourselves. and our love and our romance and our. sexuality. And I had zero clue what that. meant. And once most of the meal is over with,

all prepared by this personal chef that. was had a Michelin star restaurant, I. believe, a violinist walks down the. steps of the mansion. And in walk two. girls wearing bunny masks and they're. naked. One has the word touch written on. her chest. The other one has eat me. written on her chest. So, it's very like. the directions are pretty clear. They're. climbing onto the table. They just start. making out before heading into the final. act where they're just both like laying. on the dinner table doing things. The. violinist later says.

>> this they they they're showing all of. this in the show. >> You don't like you see lots of nudity. but you don't see explicit but like you. see you see where the placement of body. parts are. So you infer, >> right? Okay. Obviously, you know, the. violinist is standing there and she. says, "I was just trying to focus on. playing the violin really well, which. obviously takes a little bit of focus.". And then it just like cuts to her. playing the violin and her eyes are just. staring at the two girls at the dinner. table. And I'm like, "What am I.

watching?" Then another girl comes in. with a maid costume with a cake. The two. original girls somehow there's like. giant carrots put inside the cake. They. take out the carrots. You know what they. do with carrots. [music]. And then they're like, there's icing. everywhere. And then at one point, Tatiana gets up on the table and starts. eating a bunny meal. >> like with one of the girls. You were. saying, >> "Yes." And Mark Remly is just admiring. his wife visually and physically. And.

the camera is like behind her and he's. like lifting up her skirt. I don't know. And then she finally gets up and she. jokes, "I think I look guilty." And he. says, "You do. The proof is on your. mouth." cuz she has icing on her mouth. now. Then it just cuts to them sitting. together outside and Mark Ramley says, "The entertainment is bar none." And. Tatiana looks really serious as if she. is witnessing a profound enlightening. moment. Beautiful. She's like [music]. interjecting. Beautiful. He says, "The. quality of the performers, you know, the.

sexuality that they exude, you just it. just gets you off. It gets you going. It. really does." Tatiana says, "The bunnies. were beautiful. They're sensuous. There's something enticing about their. energy and it draws me to them. I cannot. stop myself. Like all the taboos of this. world. Everything just dissolves in. their energy. And then it cuts to one of. the bunnies coming over to hug Tatiana. And Mark is just watching as they just. start getting unclothed. And we see.

Tatiana unclothed and they just start. doing a lot of things. And Mark Reley. tells the viewers, you know, sex is. probably the biggest part of our lives. Yes. Tatiana's [music] going to say yes. Sex. is the center of our universe and. everything we derive around it and it. revolves around it. And in the beginning. of our relationship, we weren't into. this lifestyle. But as time grew on and. our sexuality grew together and Sanctum. made it all that much more amazing. Mark. continues, "I'm kind of like an. adrenaline junkie actually. You know, I.

love to take risks and I love to live. life on the edge. I'm drawn to things. that push the limits." Tatiana looks at. him and we live life to the fullest. every moment we can. I think people have. a hard time in this environment, in this. country, in this day and time embracing. their sexuality and embracing, you know, being all that you can be. I think they. want to embrace it, [music] but they're. scared. It's magical. It's amazing. You. feel incredible. You feel real. Mark and. Tatiana, like I said, Vladimir and Ilana.

are their pseudonyms. These are the. owners of the failed Valentar horse. show. >> Do you know if this is before or after. or just happening at the same time? >> Happening seems like at the same time. Yeah. And the founder of Sanctum is. asked about the couple cuz you know he. saw them and then you know they make. news later and he says they seem to be. really happy with with what was going. on. They seemed really happy with each. other and really excited about the. experience. I mean they seemed really. into it. It's just that the wife Tatiana. didn't really seem like an authentic.

character to me. She seemed a little bit. fake. You know, I've been doing this a. while and I've been dealing with people. like this a long time and I have a. pretty good sense of character at this. point. There was something off about her. for sure, but I don't think he saw it. I. think he was in love with her. I think. he really cared for her. Whatever she. was pulling, I don't think he was aware. of it. So, he's just saying like the way. she's describing like it was beautiful. It was magical. So, I unfortunately I. watched I mean I couldn't really find. the exact episode that they were. featured in. So, just to be thorough, I.

watched the whole season, even though. they showed up in like episode 3. Um, I. don't know why I did that, but I thought. they would show up again. I don't know. But all the other very wealthy couples. that go on there, they're very blunt. about the experience. They're like, "Yeah, it's hot." Like, it's hot. We do. it. It gets us going. And then we're. hotter to each other and we like it. It's hot. >> But then when you see Tatiana, it's very. like ethereal and spiritual and it's. like moment.

>> Yeah. >> When all the other couples are like, I. just like looking at hot people do hot. things and it makes my husband and wife. hotter to me. >> That was about it. So, I think that's. what he's insinuating. It just felt and. it it did feel performative in the sense. of like you do meet some people who are. very into like tantric. experiences where they think and they. genuinely feel it's like an awakening as. they're doing certain things with their. partner and it's like this connection. that transcends above all in this very.

physical moment. But that was not the. vibe that she was giving. >> She's just performative like being doing. a lot. >> Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. uh a former business partner. of Mark's that also knew Tatiana says I. mean at one point Mark was just calling. him non-stop like he's explaining he's. just calling me non-stop. >> What does that mean? >> So he used to work with Mark. They had. multiple failed business deals. >> They're not really besties anymore. There's no reason for them to be calling. each other. They don't really have a. friendship outside of that. But Mark.

keeps calling him and is like, "Come to. San Diego. Let's hang out." And he's. like, "What are we going to do? Hang. out? Like are you trying to get me into. another business venture that's going to. fail?" And he's like, "No, let's just. hang out." He's like, "I don't know why. you keep saying hang out. We're not. really friends." He says, "Quote, eventually I got sick of dealing with. Mark and I stopped returning his phone. calls." A month later, maybe two months. later, a mutual friend of ours was at my. place and we were just talking about it. and I just brought it up like this weird. thing like why was Mark Remly bothering. me? And he immediately knew the answer. and he just said, "Oh, Tatiana wants to. sleep with you while he watches.".

[music]. >> Damn. >> So apparently they were trying to get me. to come down there and have sex with. Tatiana while Mark watched for whatever. reason. We never did get the answer if. he went or not. But here's a very odd detail on the. show. They go as Vladimir and Ilana, which seems like a random choice of. pseudonyms for the show. And there is a. speculation of a intense interest in. Russian culture and Russian aesthetics. And no one really knows if Tatiana is. even Russian because we don't think. Tatiana is her real name. We'll get to.

it. But it's it's not random. Tatiana. has allegedly stated in the past that. she was essayed by her brother. Now, the. people she told about this, she told. them that her brother's name was. Vladimir. >> Okay. >> So, why would you choose a pseudonym for. your husband? That is, first of all, your brother, even if he didn't assault. you, that's a very odd choice, >> right? Or like that's not even her. brother's name, right? >> So, it's just weird connection. Yeah.

Very off. And the mutual friend said, "There's something wrong with her." That. it's a really weird thing to do. I mean, 100% I know that Mark didn't pick the. name. That was her idea. Mark's not even. that creative to come up with a. pseudonym like that. So, I'm sure she. picked it. And why would she pick that. name if that's who molested her, her. brother? Even if he didn't molest her, just her brother's name. Really bizarre. >> Friends say their relationship was just. getting toxic. They had a much healthier. relationship in the beginning, aside. from the colossal financial failure that. was valid. At least they were both.

businessoriented. They're always working. on something. Is it the best thing in. the world? No. Is it something that's. going to run them into bankruptcy? Perhaps. But it's something. Eventually, their entire relationship just revolves. around sleeping with different people. The Delmare Fire Department get a phone. call. A residential home is on fire. The. entire house is up in flames. And it's a. big one. It's $5.5 million of the house. burning to the ground. Firefighters get. to the scene, put out the fire before it.

can start spreading. But it's just. weird. You can tell that this is not a. normally occurring fire. This doesn't. even seem like an accident. And like, yes, we are in Southern California, but. this doesn't make sense. The bomb and. arson unit of the Delmare Fire. Department start investigating the cause. of the fire. And the first persons of. interest are going to be whoever is at. the scene of the crime. That makes. sense. And they find two women. One of. them, interestingly, has three guns with. her and a ton of ammunition. I mean, technically, she does have every right. to be there, though, kind of, cuz it's.

the house that she shares with Mark. What the hell is Tatiana Remly doing. there with guns and ammunition when the. house is burning down? Some people just. have a lot more targets on their back. than others. Some people could go the. rest of their lives and no one wants to. harm them. And then you have someone. like Mark Remley, co-founder of Signal. Corp, tech company that lives off of. DoD, Department of Defense contracts. They operate, execute large-scale. federal IT projects, primarily dealing.

with high-end government contracts. He. was almost a VP there for 20 years, executive VP, chief information officer. The company had an annual sales at its. peak, surpassing $600 million from the. government. I was going to make a smart. remark, but I won't. Eventually, he. retires. Mark Remley inherits close to. $26 million. And that seems to be a mix. from his work at Signal when he exits. and from his parents' passing. So, they're all wealthy. And that's when he. meets Tatiana at Starbucks. And it's not.

the worst of the book tropes, but it. does feel like something that only. happens in a like a modern contemporary. romance in the category of romcom that. doesn't take itself too seriously. Like. that's the vibe it gives. They get. married and suddenly Tatiana has a. $218,000. engagement ring the first year that. they're married because now Tatiana has. to fit into this higher upper class. life. He buys her $200,000 worth of. clothes. >> Dang. >> Yeah. >> $200,000.

>> Yeah. >> Worth of clothes. >> Worth of clothes. >> Okay. >> I saw the clothes. >> Okay. It's just like designer on. designer on designer. >> Not a lot of clothes though for clothes. >> Really? >> Yeah. I think it was a lot of lingerie. for $200,000. >> And they she moves into the $5.5 million. house. They have multiple properties all. over San Diego, Hawaii, California. And. by the way, that's not like a weird. remark. I think like if you want to, you. can wear whatever you want to wear. I. was just saying $200,000 is like an.

unthinkable amount to spend on clothing. >> Yeah. >> I'm like expecting a house full of. clothes. You get the house and the. clothes and they're it's just it they. they're living this life. She even posts. on Facebook in Hawaii making lunch in. the kitchen and you just see this. massive rainbow across the island. But. there are some things that even money. cannot buy. Like some things that you. can't even pay someone to make you. forget like your ex. Because 1,300 miles.

away from Valatar, the horse show near. Seattle, Washington, on a giant. billboard taking up the eyeball real. estate of a boring highway where there's. really nothing to look at except for the. exit signs and maybe a Chick-fil-A sign, maybe an In-N-Out sign. There's just a. giant billboard of Tatiana, her blonde. hair next to her two beautiful horses. Valetier doesn't really have active. plans to do shows in Seattle. They. barely have shows in California, but the. billboard is there [music] because that.

is the road that Ken Wilcott, a very. wealthy man. Ken is a real estate. developer in Seattle, part owner of the. NBA Sonics. He's worth close to $40. million. He lives in Seattle and he. takes this highway [music] every damn. day to get to work. And he has to see. his goddamn ex-wife blown up on the side. of the road. He might be one of the few. people that know a lot about Tatiana. And he's got to look at her every single. day. >> That's crazy. >> Yeah.

>> So, she only did that. >> on that one specific billboard in that. city. >> for her ex-husband to look at? >> Yeah. >> Is it to rub it on his face or Okay. >> Yeah. They had a very contentious. divorce and he seems like he is the only. one that might know a lot about Tatiana. I mean, there's not a lot about her out. there. There's so much of her out there, but really not a lot about her out. there. >> He This is crazy. This is like one of. the craziest things. >> Her name is probably not even Tatiana. It's speculated that she was born Tanya.

>> Uh-huh. >> Tatiana's parents seemed to have like a. Russian fixation. Tatiana perhaps leaned. into it. It seems like maybe they had. some Russian heritage in their family. life. I don't know. Her parents are just. from Bend, Oregon. Tatiana was born in. Phoenix, Arizona. And it's speculated. she was Tanya. They never really went to. Russia. They never grew up in Russia. Not saying that you have to grow up in. Russia to be part of the Russian culture. or to celebrate your Russian ancestry.

It's just her parents are Vera and. Brian. And she just leans into the. Russian aesthetic really hard. And then. she starts leaning out. I think that's. where it gets interesting. >> Leaning out as like her look or. >> her look, the the obsessions that she. has. So when she was very into the. Russian aesthetic, it was all about how. you can be an equestrian in like the. Russian way. So every different country. has their own style of. >> horse riding. So there Russia has a very.

specific type and they like specific. horses that fit that aesthetic and you. have like the long blowing blonde hair. and then you wear like very swaying. fabrics. It's like a very specific look. M. >> And then you have like the country girl. horse, >> which is like you've got the tight. jeans, you've got the boots, you've got. the cowboy hat, all so beautiful, but. it's like a very different aesthetic. >> Yeah. >> So, she just kind of picks and chooses. And some people speculate she picks and. chooses depending on what she thinks the.

guy that she is dating will like. >> I see. >> So, if the guy is like, I love me a. cowgirl, she will be a cowgirl. If the. guy is like, I love like that Eastern. European. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> you know, but I will say a mutual friend. does say something very interesting. They say Tatiana is perhaps a persona. that she made up and maybe it came from. childhood trauma and she just like needs. a character that she would become that. wasn't tortured. I don't know, but I.

don't think any of it is real. So, that's what the friend says about. Tatiana being a character that she. plays. Ken Wilcott, Tatiana's. ex-husband, says her childhood was. really rough. She grew up near Bend, Oregon, but in the rural area. She. didn't have any social interactions. really with anybody growing up. It. sounds like her parents might have been. involved in a religious group that might. border the loosely defined word of a. cult. She wasn't allowed to have. traditional medicine or medical care. It's believed that her family fully. rejected all forms of any life-saving.

medicines, any discomfort leaving. medicines. The way Ken Wilcott saw it. and the way he later describes it is he. thinks a lot of Tatiana's emotional. disruption comes from the fact that she. was essentially held captive for 10. years by her parents. [music]. They didn't allow her to have any. friends. She wasn't even enrolled in. school after the fourth grade. Impressively, she got her GED, but it. it's it was just a rough life. Before. marrying Ken Wilcott, Tatiana had a. daughter with a separate guy. She. marries Ken, has a son with him, and.

they are married for a total of 11. months. And short does not mean simple. because their divorce is very very. messy. Ken alleges that Tatiana misused. his finances. More specifically, he gave. Tatiana a card to use to purchase. clothes. She would buy the clothes with. his credit card and then return the. clothes and then ask for cash for the. return instead of for returning it back. to the card. Mhm. >> Which I feel like that's impressive and. I feel like as a husband you should. support that because why are you okay.

with her spending the money on clothes. unless she's spending the cash on. something else? I don't know. You would. think that a millionaire would be. impressed by her financial ability to. think ahead. But no, he's very upset. He. also accused Tatiana of being. inattentive to their son who was born. with extra support needs. And that's. when they separate. He says that he. wasn't going to send her $9,000 a month. to care for their son because she's. using it fully on herself. She's not. using it on their son. So, he wants full.

custody of the son and he wants to stop. paying her child support. He also just. overall disagrees with the way that. she's living her life. So, ultimately, he ends up with full custody, but this. is where things get interesting and I. think this is where lots of people have. sympathy for Tatiana. All the guys in. her life still like her to some degree. because he continues paying child. support even though he has full custody. out of his own valition. It's not. because the judge orders him to. >> Okay, >> so it just keep this in mind. Okay, >> but some of Tatiana's friends say that.

she had a strong pattern of going after. wealthy guys and then depending on them. for her financial needs. But she also. seems to have an energy that they seem. to love. According to friends, the. relationship between Mark and Tatiana. Remley is interesting. Technically, on. paper, Mark is the one with the power. He's got the substantial resources. But. friends say he's like a dog, like a. little puppy dog. He's obsessed with. Tatiana. Whatever she wants, he's doing. it. No questions asked. Mark seems so. obsessed with Tatiana, even to the point. where he still loves her no matter if.

they fail at their businesses, lose $20. million, if she frivolously spends money. purchasing billboards for her. ex-husband, if she goes to intimate. parties and has intimate relations with. other people in front of him, and even. when she tries to have him killed. August 2nd, 2023, there is another chance encounter at. Starbucks. At least that's what it feels. like. It's a very casual meeting. a guy. sitting on the patio with an ice drink. He's wearing a tank top and shorts. It's. August. It's hot. And then you have a.

woman sitting there. At one point, he. leans in, says something to the woman. before getting up and walking into the. Starbucks and entering the restroom. She. leans back in her chair waiting for him. And that is when four San Diego police. officers pull up in two separate. vehicles. Tatiana Remley, you are under. arrest for trying to hire an undercover. officer to kill your husband for $2. million. >> What? 2 million? That's the highest. we've ever heard, right? >> Yeah. And it's not $2 million that she.

has. I mean, perhaps the worst part of. all of this is that she would be using. Mark Remy's money to kill Mark Remley. >> to get the rest of Mark Ramy's money. >> Do you know how she did it? Is it just. like googling and. >> No, you're going to Well, I don't want. to say that, but you're going to laugh. She reached out. I mean, these are all. They're all like swingers. They're. reaching out. They're doing things with. each other. She reaches out to a mutual. friend of them and it's like, "Hey, can. you kill my husband?" He's like, "Let me.

think about it. Call San Diego Police.". >> Oh my god. It always happens like this, too. They're just like calling friends. and calling someone. so randomly. >> I don't know who in their life knows. anyone that would have any experience. with a hitman. >> Yeah. Okay. So, so the the mutual friend. just called the cops. >> Called the cops and was like, "I don't. know what to do." Calls Mark and is. like, "Hey, Mark, you better watch out.". >> So then the cops are like, "We know what. to do. Tell her you know somebody who. can do it." Undercover cop. They meet at.

a Starbucks. Something about Starbucks. >> Do they record the body cams and. >> No. >> Yeah. And so he goes into the restroom, she gets arrested. >> So And you said the friend called Mark. as well. >> Yeah. >> So Mark knew. >> Yeah. And Mark actually dates her after. she gets out of prison. >> Oh. >> So. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Now, how did we get here? How how did. she go from everything that they're.

doing to like all of a sudden attempt. murder? Like. >> Oh, yeah. Let me tell you. There is a. saying that if you want to live a. financially stable life, you don't date. someone who treats money like water. Because no matter how much you cup your. hands, if you try to keep water in your. hands, the money's going out. You're not. going to be able to cup it. Obviously, this is not towards people who have. reasonable bills to pay and the cost of. living is drastically higher than the. wages that are being offered in the job. market. This is for people that whenever. they get extra disposable cash, they buy. the most ridiculous thing that they. don't even need. And it's not even just.

them spoiling themselves to feel good. about this impending recession and doom. and depression. It's like, why did you. buy the 12th air fryer of the year? Like, you don't need 12 air fryers. Those are the types of people that it's. going to be very difficult to live a. financially responsible life. And that. might be Tatiana. And Mark acted like he. had unlimited water. After the $20. million fail that was validar, they open. up Rhythm and Power, a cycling studio. like um SoulCycle. After a year of being.

open, suddenly members get an email that. they're going to have random. improvements done in the store. So, the. store is going to close down. They. recheck the website, everything is shut. down. They go to the store, [music]. the studio had a staff of five people, and the full year that they were open, they only made $51,000. [music] Then one. day, Tatiana wakes up and she. spontaneously decides that she's going. to be the head of a women's polo team, which costs Mark $500,000 to get the. whole team together. They have to buy. horses. They have to invest in the team. Team marketing, [music] team shirts,

>> team name, LLC, rights. Yeah. And then um they enter the San. Diego Polo Club and a few minutes into. their very first match, Tatiana falls. off the horse, breaks her arm, and quits. polo. >> Wow. A mutual friend describes their. relationship as he did whatever she did. Whatever she said, didn't matter if it. was a good idea, bad idea, made no. difference. I mean, he got drugged. around by her doing what she wanted with. no real say in it. He just threw money. at whatever it is she wanted to do. He.

was her dog. >> People also say that Tatiana has always. been quote a control freak. She likes to. push boundaries, push limits. She's an. instigator. And her biggest aspirations. were to be the real housewife of insert. major city. That was her dream. And so after all of these business. things, Mark Remley files for. bankruptcy. [music] And by the end of. all of these failed business ventures, they decide that they are going to end. their very tumultuous marriage. They are. going to get a divorce. Mark Remley. files for bankruptcy. They file for the.

divorce. And then Tatiana decides, [music]. I actually think I'm just going to kill. him instead. >> What's up? Where's that come from? Where's. >> She was not getting enough financial. support from him. And I think if he. died, perhaps she thought there was still. money left that would go to her. >> You think it was a money motivation? >> Yes. Because even in the divorce. filings, her lawyer complains about how. she was living off of $50,000 a month as. her allowance when they were married, and he's cutting it down to 12 to.

$15,000 a month, which is just like an. unreasonable. >> amount. >> Wow. So, according to the divorce documents, Mark Remley had invested he still has I. I think this is like after the. bankruptcy. I don't even know how this. works, right? But he still had a. portfolio worth about $8.6 million, a. bank account with $400,000. and multiple multi-million dollar. properties, vehicles, jewelry, all. amounting to be $8.2 million. And so, with that, the shits slinging.

divorce begins. Tatiana claims Mark was. not only verbally and physically. abusive, that he allegedly put a gun up. to her head in front of another employee. and another time he chased her around. the house with a knife. According to. Tatiana's divorce filings, he stole. property from her. He destroyed her. property. He's mentally unstable and. after the massive financial colossal. failure that was Valatar, he had a. meltdown and he discharged one of his. guns inside of their house and he has. cut her off financially, which seems to. be like the most contentious point.

Tatiana's attorney argues the wife is. experiencing extreme financial strain. She is unable to maintain her realistic. monthly expenses of just $12,000, much. less than what she was accustomed to at. $50,000. She has no income and does not. have the same access to funds and assets. that the respondent [music] does. In the. divorce, Tatiana is demanding $15,000 a. month in spousal support, and the use of. the Delmare home, the $5.5 million home, two trucks, a horse trailer, an ATV, and. a few of their pets, including some.

parrots and some goats. She's like, "This is what I want in the divorce.". But this is what's weird. That's a house. that burned down. It's not like fully. burned down, but it's pretty wrecked. Why does she want that Delmare house? >> So, the fire happened. I I I'm confusing. with the. >> Yes. Okay. So, all of their business. failures happened. Y. >> and then. she very quickly is like I'm going to. hire someone to kill him. >> Where's the gun and the am. girl with the gun and amos?

>> Oh yes. Okay. So all their failures. happen. They decide that they're going. to file for divorce. Then the house fire. happens. Tatiana is there with a bunch. of guns and ammunition. And now the fire. department is investigating it for. arson. And then she gets arrested for. trying to hire a hit on her husband that. they are in the process of divorcing. right now. >> Right. When the fire department came to. the house, they got rid of the fire. What do you mean? Like she's standing in. the house holding a gun. >> She had them in her possession.

>> and they Yeah. So it gets tricky later, but she does get arrested for this fire. later. They don't arrest her that day. They arrest her way later. >> They're just investigating what's going. on. And then it's. poss. for trying to hire a hit on her husband. that she's in the middle of getting a. divorce from. >> So all of this is happening, but um the.

most disturbing allegation in the. divorce comes out where Tatiana claims. throughout their marriage there has been. lots of heinous things that Mark has. done to her. But one of the most heinous. is that [music] Mark coordinated with. his friend. Mark's friend breaks into. the house, forces their way into the. house, holds Tatiana at gunpoint, and. essays her while Mark is watching, and. then cuts the head off of their horse. statue and throws it on the bed. This is. an accusation that comes out during the. divorce proceedings.

>> Mhm. And so she's saying that horse head. statue that was Mark's doing because he. called his friend to come essay me while. he just laughed. He laughed and he. watched and then they cut my horse. statue's head off and then put it in the. bed like a threat from the movie. Godfather because there's like a scene. but I think it was a real horse head. I. mean a prop for the movie but like. supposed to be real. Again, another. mutual friend of theirs does believe. that this incident did take place where. someone did force their way into the. house and essayed Tatiana, but he says,

quote, I think she's the one who. orchestrated it, not him. That was. totally her. She was always the one. trying to get people to do things with. her. That was her thing. Mark, I can't. imagine Mark. I'd be surprised if he has. that many friends, but I can't really. imagine Mark actually orchestrating that. on his own. this friend is saying this. is something that she orchestrated as. like a roleplay type of thing. >> Yeah. >> I don't know if that's accurate. Um. it just see a lot of people have mixed.

feelings about Tatiana. And even if you. take Mark out of the picture, is this. somebody who is just very traumatized. and is behaving very recklessly, but she. is victim and perpetrator? or some. people are also like, "Yeah, but you. probably wouldn't say that to a guy who. tries to kill his wife.". >> So, it's just very complicated. But he. believes that Tatiana is the one that. orchestrated all of this and she was. always the one wanting to go to these.

clubs, wanting to do these types of. things, wanting to get intimate with. other people. That seems to be the. assumption and what the mutual friends. are saying. Mark has also claimed to a. local news outlet that he believes that. Tatiana was the one to burn their house. down. And maybe that's not even the only. time that she allegedly took measures to. harm Mark. There were reports that the. day before Tatiana was arrested, Mark. had no idea that she was I guess he knew. he had a heads up that she might try to. kill him, but he didn't know what was.

happening because he ends up running to. his neighbor's house, banging on the. door, screaming that he's having a. seizure. Neighbor said Mark looked. horrendous. I mean, this guy is 57. He. looked 77. That's how bad he looked. Neighbor calls the police. Mark is taken. to the hospital. >> When When was this? >> This is the day before she was arrested. at that Starbucks. So, some people think. that she tried to poison him before and. then she got arrested the next day. I. don't know. That's all speculation, but. this is just something happened the day. before the arrest. >> Before we go there, about the fire, you're saying the fire, people think she.

tried to kill him with the fire. >> So, it wasn't for insurance or anything. else. >> Yeah. >> What? >> And then she in the divorce wants to. like stay in that house. And so people. thought that was weird. So maybe there's. some sort of evidence of arson that she. thinks if she's in the house, she's. allowed to be on the property. Only. she's allowed there. She could dispose. of or get rid of or control the. investigation in some way. >> was the belief. And then the day before. she's arrested, he's like running down. the street screaming, "I'm having a.

seizure." And he just looks so rough. That could be unrelated or it could be. completely related. And then the next. day she gets arrested. M. >> December 18th, 2025. So, this is after all of this. >> This is a few months ago. >> Yeah. This is after their divorce is. finalized. This is after she gets out of. prison for trying to kill her husband. Yeah. We're going to get into how much. time she served in the middle of San. Diego's Little Italy neighborhood. outside of a bar. Tatiana Remley, who.

served her jail time for trying to get. Mark killed. [music]. She's a free woman and she is laying on. the curb now with a gunshot wound to her. head. She's dead. 2 years before her. death, she had plead guilty to. solicitation to commit murder and a. firearm charge. She was initially facing. 9 years in prison for the little. Starbucks meetup and trying to kill. Mark. However, she's ultimately. sentenced to 4 years in prison, but she. only ends up serving 1 year before being.

released. She gets out after one year. and when she gets out she dates Mark. here and there, starts dating other guys. and there are a few changes in her life. She kind of starts leaning more into. that country girl scene and she starts. posting really intense things on. Facebook about how life is about what. you make it. And quote, "Maturity is. when you have the power to destroy. someone who did you wrong, but you just. breathe, walk away, and let life take. care of them." which some people think. maybe there was a lot of trauma that she. endured in previous relationships. Like.

it just no one really can understand. what happened. Like it's hard to. pinpoint directly if she is a victim. turn perpetrator or if she's just a. straight perpetrator all the way. through. So she switches from like the. more Russian centered equestrian. aesthetic to country girl. Horses, bikes, trailers, snakes, like that kind. of vibe. She posts quotes like, "Everybody wants to be a country girl. until the haywagon rolls up and it's. time to start stacking." [music]. And a lot of nizens are just confused at.

the time, like how did she only get one. year for arranging to kill her husband? And they all commented, "Cal judges are. insane." Which I would have to agree. with that sentiment because court. documents state that Tatiana was very. thorough about how she wanted Mark to be. decapitated, how she wanted his body to. be disposed of, how she had all this. cash saved [music] up. I mean, she had a. substantial amount of cash that they. found on her, which was probably Mark's. cash. >> How much? >> They just said substantial amount. And. she had three loaded firearms that were.

not registered to her name. And maybe. she received leniency for how dumb she. was in her plot to kill. And no one. knows why she just served a year. Nobody. knows. But after her release, she did see Mark. on and off again until December of 2018. Well, actually September of 2025, she. gets arrested once more, this time for. arson for that Delmare fire in their. $5.5 million house. She's actually.

awaiting trial. She plead not guilty. So, she gets arrested in September of. 2025. December of 2025, she's out in. Little Italy. She FaceTimes Mark, her. ex-husband, in the bathroom of a bar, and she's complaining about the guy that. she's [music] with. And he's like, "Well, if you're really uncomfortable, I. can call 911 for you." And she's like, "No, I got it. Like, it's under control. It's going to [music] be fine." She. walks out of the bar and she takes out. the gun from her purse, fires it once. outside in the air, and then the second.

shot, she passes away. >> What? >> Yes. So, it's a very public um. >> So, it was like there were a It's in. front of a store. >> Yeah. It's just like in the middle of. Little Italy. There was a few there were. a few witnesses who saw and witnessed. the whole thing. And usually when people. do things like that in public, it's like. a last cry for help. It's almost like a. lot of psychologists have said it's. like, "Do you see how much pain I'm in?". And I will say that she was high risk.

for this type of incident considering. she was facing substantial social, legal, financial repercussions in life. But I don't know. I think it's really. hard to say. I think people have very. strange mixed feelings for Tatiana. I. think given the fact that Mark dated her. after she got out of prison, her. ex-husband Ken Walcott continued to pay. child support even when she didn't have. the child for at least an extended. period of time out of his own free will. It seems like maybe people close to.

Tatiana saw something. that we probably don't see. Maybe she. did have a very unstable childhood and. they could see. her instability seeping through, but. ultimately they thought she was a good. person. I don't know. >> H. >> I don't know. >> Wow. >> Yeah. But she died 10 days after her. 44th birthday. But some other people.

think maybe there's actually something. worse happening cuz there is an. unanswered question in all of this. Tatiana's friend Cheryl. mysteriously died around the time their. house caught on fire. And there have. been rumors in their circle that Tatiana. could be involved. Tatiana claimed that. her ex-husband Mark was trying to. falsely implicate her in her friend. Cheryl's suspected murder, but she was. due back in court for the arson charge. March 3rd of 2026,

but she is. >> What happened to Cheryl? >> No one knows. I tried to look into it. There's not much written about her. >> There's like barely Yeah. >> Wow. >> And now the question is, I guess, who. killed Cheryl? Was Tatiana a victim and. a perpetrator or just a perpetrator or. does it even really matter? >> And what hab did Mark make any. statements after this? >> No. People think he's in Hawaii. His.

friend says that's where Mark goes when. he runs away to his house in Hawaii. >> Yeah. >> Wow. And ex-husband nothing. No. No. Wow. >> What are your thoughts? It's I mean this. was a very bizarre case. >> Oh [sighs] wow. I mean I feel like there. are just so much more behind closed. doors. Even just even like what they. what we see from the outside is insane.

>> Yeah. >> Right. Their lifestyle already insane. So you can only imagine what's more. that's not disclosed. And then obviously. there's questions of of course all of. their mutual friends are saying that. Tatiana is the one that wanted the. lifestyle. But I guess some netizens are. also confused of like maybe she got into. the lifestyle and then was pressured to. do things she didn't want to do or. things happened and that led to her. wanting people dead. Is that an excuse? No. But I I guess there's just so many.

unanswered questions because it just got. so unhinged. >> Yeah. >> So quickly in a way that doesn't. necessarily make sense. What are your thoughts? Let me know in. the comments. Stay safe and I'll see you. in the next one.