2 More Duggars from "19 Kids & Counting" Arrested for Crimes Against Children

Bada bing, bada boom. >> We get a lot of odd emails. Sometimes we. get emails just simply telling us to. look into somebody's name. Like there's. no criminal record. There's no online. discourse. It's just a name and then we. respond and then there's no response. back. But that is still probably nothing. at all compared to what the producers of. the Oprah Winfrey show likely got when. it was on air. December 2006, the Oprah. show just flew out. an entire family, almost two dozen family members all the.

way from Arkansas to Chicago. They're. paying for the airfare, hotel costs, food costs, everything, which is a lot. of money for almost 20 people. But the. family that they're bringing into. interview, they're famous. They're the. Duggars. They have their own TLC reality. show. They're all about good Christian. values and procreating like there is a. mandated law that if you don't pop out a. child every other summer out of you, you. will be struck down by lightning. They're naturally a very interesting. [music] site. The girls in the family. all have curly hair, wear long dresses,

they look like they're stepping out of a. movie from decades ago before cities had. running water. But before they can even. step foot onto the production stage for. the Oprah Winfrey show, before they can. even do a sound check, an email lands in. one of the producers inboxes. Before you. air the Duggar family from Arkansas, you. need to know the truth. They are not. what they seem to be. Joshua, the eldest. son of the 19 kids, has molested his. siblings [music] while they were. sleeping, and the parents have been.

hiding the secret for a long time. Jim. Bob, the father, lies to his church and. his friends to make him look good. At. this moment, he is in trouble with the. church for lying about Joshua and the. things that concern the way the church. members reacted. I think that you should. know the truth before they make a. complete fool out of you in your show. They have been on TV before and come. across as a perfect family, which. couldn't be further from the truth. They. jump from show to show to receive gifts. for their family to make them look. really good. Please consider this and. confront [music] them about their. secret.

>> Whoa. >> The Oprah Winfrey show. They cancel the. Duggar interview even though they're. already waiting for the Oprah Winfrey. show in Chicago ready to film. They. cancel it and then they forward this. email to the local police station. This. email from 2006 is going to kickstart. [music] a decadel long secret ordeal. that ultimately implodes and results in. multiple arrests. At [music] least three. Duggars have been arrested thus far. One. police officer in connection with the. case, mostly all for crimes against. children. Whoever emailed Oprah was.

right. The Duggars were hiding. something. [music]. [music]. We would like to thank today's sponsors. who have made it possible for Rotten. Mango to support NECME, the National. Center for Missing and Exploited. Children. They are the nation's largest.

and most influential child protection. organization. This episode's. partnerships have also made it possible. to support Rotteno's growing team of. dedicated researchers, and we'd also. like to thank you guys for your. continued support. As always, full show. notes are available by. rotteningodcast.com. A lot of disclaimers with this case. There's religious trauma, grooming, incest, CSAM, CSA. So, please watch with. caution. This is going to be a multi-. episode series, so please take breaks. whenever you feel overwhelmed. All. information is publicly available. Any. netizen comments, speculations, theories, or allegations are opinions of.

netizens, and statements and quotes have. been condensed for brevity. This is. going to be a massive deep dive. So, with that being said, let's get started. So, let me just run you through the. Joshua Duggar timeline. The Duggar. family are about to go on Oprah when her. production team get an email that. something nefarious has happened in the. family home. That the eldest child, the. first son, Joshua Duggar, has been. molesting his younger sisters. >> Did you say this is 2006? >> Yes. 2006. >> Very early on, right? >> Mhm. And then from then, nothing. The.

letter made it to the Oprah team and. it's not made public because I'm sure. the Oprah team would have been sued and. back for that. Though the production. crew, they do forward this email to the. rightful police department that would. have jurisdiction, but the public don't. know any of this. The show 19 Kids in. Counting continues to air the happy, solidly wholesome, at least the Duggar. parents, they're very much bigoted. Okay. Some of the children, I'm sure. they have different views. I don't know. But on the show, they're wholesome. And. their biggest problem is making enough.

dinner for their 20 plus member family. The public does not know that there are. crimes against children being committed. in the family home. It's not until 2015, almost 10 years later, that that. information is made public. InTouch. magazine does a foyer [music] request. and they do an expose. They reveal that. they were able to get their hands on the. police files from back in 2006 when the. police investigate the family after the. failed Oprah interview. The police.

document goes public. The sisters who. were abused by Joshua were very upset. that the police file was made public. because people were guessing which. sister was the victim in the redacted. files. They were able to put the ages. together, the length of the redacted. names, and it was pretty easy to figure. out who had been victimized by Joshua. >> And they don't want that information. public. >> No. So, while a few of the sisters have. publicly spoken out about it, I'm going. to be very vague in some of the details, so it's hard to pinpoint who was a. victim. But let's run through the. timeline. Jim Bob Duggar, the family man.

Christian who wants capital punishment. for crimes like incest, first learns. that Joshua has been assaulting his. sisters, touching his sisters while they. were asleep. This is back in 2002, he. figures this out. Joshua is 14. >> Okay, >> Joshua is 14. 2002, Jim Bob finds out. He does not report this to the police. A. few months later, Joshua admits again. that he's been molesting yet another. sister. So, the parents decide that. they're going to discipline him. privately at home, but nothing else. No. call to the police, nothing. [music].

They will later report it, but not right. now. Instead, Jim Bob punishes Joshua, and [music] at the same time, he's. running for the Republican Senate seat. in Arkansas, and he's talking about how. incest needs to be a capital crime. Then, the next year in 2003, the Duggar. parents are made aware of two more. incidents where he molests a victim who. is awake and sitting on his lap. [music]. Then around the same time in the laundry. room, he later puts his hand up another. victim's dress. Jim Bob goes to the. church. He asks the church leaders for. the best course of action because he.

doesn't know [music] how to prevent this. from happening again. The church elders. are like, "Oh yeah, he needs help. You. got to send him away." Jim Bob sends him. to this counseling camp, or at least. that's like what Jim Bob tells the. police. There's a Christian counseling. program where he had to do manual labor. and work with counselors, which turned. out not to even be a counseling camp. It. was just like a fellow Christian who. owned a home remodeling business. Not. that I would even think a counseling. camp would suffice, but it's just some. church friend when he gets back. Remember Jim Holt? Joshua Duggar was.

supposed to court Jim Holt's oldest. daughter. >> Mhm. >> Haley, everyone was like, "Oh yeah, they're definitely going to get married. because Jim Bob and Jim Holt are. besties. They're both politicians. They. both have a trillion children and their. son and daughter are absolutely they're. the same age. They're going to get. married." Well, out of nowhere, Jim Holt. is like, "I'm not friends with Jim Bob. anymore. I'm not talking about Jim Bob. My daughter will never be around Jim. Bob's kids anymore. So, no Jim Bob." And. everyone's like, "What happened?" It was. this at this moment that Jim Bob tells.

Jim Holt, "Hey, this is what my son's. been doing, and we're trying to remedy. it by sending him to this counseling. program.". >> Wow. He volunteered that information. >> Yeah. And Jim Holt is like, "Um, that's. actually crazy. You need to take him to. the police. this is a literal crime that. you actually advocate against when. you're trying to run for office. So like. you need to take him to the police. So. that's what they do. They take Joshua to. the police and they choose a very. specific officer by the name of Joseph. Hutchkins. He's a former state trooper,

but he is now in prison, federal prison. for the next 56 years for CSAM. >> The officer also. >> Yeah. Mhm. >> But they didn't know that, right, when. that happened? >> That's what they say. So what what do. you mean by they take it to. >> No. So Joseph Hutchkins was a close. friend it seems of the family. >> H okay. >> At least very friendly with the family. >> So what is the police doing with Josh at. that point? >> So Joseph Hutchkins gives Joshua a very. stern talking to and that's it.

>> What? >> Joseph Hutchkins also he is in prison. right now and he will come out to state. that well actually Jim Bob lied to me. He told me it was just one time. If I. had known it was multiple times, I would. have written him up and done something. about it. But he told me it was one. time. So I gave him a stern talking to. essentially like that. >> But Hutchkins, like I said, is a close. family friend. Gives him that stern. talking to I mean of what could happen. if he continues such behavior. And. Hutchkins is like, well, there's nothing. else I can do about it. So for the next.

3 years since that point, the Duggars. focus on getting famous, making millions. of dollars, showing their very safe, very loving, wholesome family of. children who all live together. while. there were reported crimes inside the. house. And then 2006, three years after. reporting it to the police, they show up. in Chicago for the Oprah Winfrey. interview and the producers get an email. that something nefarious is happening in. the house. A formal investigation. starts. The family fly back to Arkansas. They relay all the stuff that's happened. in the past few years, and the police.

determine in 2006 that the time in which. they could have pressed charges [music]. has expired. They can't do anything. about it. Everything is out in the open. No one is negating that this happened. It's just they can't do anything about. it. And if you're wondering, how did. somebody email Oprah? So, the identity. of the emailer is a little bit vague. right now, but there were two emails. sent. One to the police station directly. and then one to the Oprah Winfrey show. And it seems like it all starts with a. letter inside of a book. The InTouch. reports, the Duggars told police that at.

the time Josh was accused of and. admitting to these sexual acts, a family. friend aware of what had happened. written down, you know, in this little. piece of paper a letter what he knew of. Josh's actions. That letter was then. placed inside of a book and then. forgotten about. And then just recently. in 2006, the book had been loaned out to. someone else with the letter in it. And. that person read the letter and started. talking to all the church community. members about what they found in the. book of this letter. And somebody. emailed Oprah. >> That's insane.

>> Yeah. Yeah. So, in 2006, mainstream. media, the press, the public, they still. don't know about any of these. accusations, these allegations. Except. there's a few whispers on forums that. something weird is happening with Josh. Duggar and he's not a golden boy. But a. lot of these whispers are coming from. people that are in that same church. community in Arkansas. They don't have. proof. It's just like an internet. whisper. Nothing is confirmed. 2015, InTouch gets their hands on that police. file and they decide to metaphorically.

let the hellgates open and release them. to the public. They reveal that Joshua. was 15 years old when he molested his. younger, much younger siblings and. committed at least seven acts of sexual. molestation. It alleges that he would go. from sister to sister because all the. girls would sleep in one common room. All the guys would sleep in a common. room and he would molest them. Jim, Bob, and Michelle argue that Joshua. apologized to the victims and they had. forgiven him. So, what what's crazy is. what follows after is almost not but.

almost as alarming as the original. reports. The family released statements. Side note, in 2015, that's when the. Ashley Madison leak is also occurring. So, Joshua is married. He and his wife. Anna Duggar have four kids, one of whom. is born during the midst of all of this. In 2015, she gives birth while all of. this is happening. The InTouch expose. goes live. Then the Ashley Madison leak. happens. >> Wow. >> But Jim, Bob, and Michelle, they write, "Back 12 years ago, our family went. through one of the most difficult times.

of our lives. When Joshua was a young. teenager, he made some very bad. mistakes, and we were shocked. We had. tried to teach him right from wrong. That dark and difficult time caused us. to seek God like never before. Even. though we never choose to go through. something so terrible, each one of our. family members drew closer to God. We. pray that as people watch our lives that. they see that we are not a perfect. family. We have challenges and struggles. every day. It is one of the reasons we. treasure our faith so much because God's. kindness and goodness and forgiveness. are extended to us even though we are so.

undeserving. [music] Josh writes in his. statement, "12 years ago as a young. teenager, I acted inexcusably for which. I am extremely sorry and deeply regret.". Is this the same response to the Ashley. Madison post or a separate one? >> A separate one. So, this one comes first. and then Ashley Madison comes next. I. heard others including my family and. close friends. I confessed this to my. parents who took several steps to help. me address the situation. We spoke with. the authorities where I confess my. wrongdoing and my parents arranged for. me and those affected by my actions to.

receive counseling. So, he just like goes down the I sought. forgiveness. Christ forgave me. So, I'm. thankful for God's grace, mercy, and. redemption. Anna Duggar, Joshua's wife. and the mother of their four children, who the world thinks is just finding out. about the fact that he molested his. sisters. She makes a statement. I can. imagine the shock many of you are going. through reading this. I remember feeling. that same shock. >> It was not at the point of engagement or. after we were married. It was 2 years.

before Josh asked me to marry him. Josh. shared his past teenage mistakes. I was. surprised at his openness and humility. And at the same time, I didn't know why. he was sharing it. [music] For Josh, he. wanted not just me, but my parents to. know who he really was, even every. difficult past mistake at that point. And over the next 2 years, Joshua shared. how the counseling he received changed. his life as he continued to do what he. was taught. She says that she felt. comfortable marrying Josh because he was. someone who quote gone down a wrong path.

and had humbled himself before God and. those whom he had offended. someone who. had received the help needed to change. the direction of his life and do what is. right. I want to say thank you to those. who took time over a decade ago to help. Josh in a time of crisis. Your. investment changed his life from going. down the wrong path [music] into doing. what's right. If it weren't for your. help, I would not be here as a wife. celebrating 6 and 1/2 years of marriage. to a man who knows how to be a gentleman. and treat a girl right. [music] Thank. you to all of you who tirelessly work. with children in crisis. You are.

changing lives and I'm forever grateful. to all of you. That's just not how it works. Okay. A. lot of people think that Anna Duggar's. reaction, Jim Bob, Michelle, Joshua. Duggar, are they living in the same. reality as we are. This is not the kind. of statement that you release in a. situation like this. Like, this is not. normal. TLC, there's talks of them. canceling their show. They stop all. reruns of 19 Kids in Counting. Advertisers start backing out, not of. just 19 Kids in Counting, but of the TLC. network. People are rightfullying pissed. off. How dare you preach family values.

and use it as a way to justify being. homophobic, transphobic against women. and then you're what? Protecting a. predator in your own home. And then the. interview drops. The Duggars decide in. the heat of this PR crisis. They are going to sit down for an. hourong interview with Megan Kelly, then. with Fox News. >> So that's when Megan Kelly was anger on. Fox News to share their side of the. story. Who's there?

>> Everyone. So, first it's Jim, Bob, [music] and Michelle sitting side by. side, appearing almost with like a. strange nonchalant attitude, as if this. is just another press tour for one of. their many, many specials. But they're. here to address the fact that their. eldest son was molesting his younger. sisters in their sleep inside their. house, and they did nothing about it. Jim Bob starts. >> We went through one of the most darkest. times that our family's ever gone. through. And our son Josh came to us on. his own and he was crying and he had.

just turned 14 and he said that he had. actually improperly touched some of our. daughters. >> We were shocked. I mean, we were just. devastated. I don't think any parent is. prepared for trauma like that. And I. think we [clears throat] had one ray of. hope and that Josh had a tender. conscience and he was the one that came. and shared on his own even though the. others really didn't know anything of.

his wrongdoing. >> This is something that they do which is. skip over the fact that the police. report states that he had a victim on. his lap when he molested her and she was. very much conscious. But the Duggar. parents, they seem to only like to talk. about the fact that Joshua molested his. sisters while they were asleep. Almost. as if, well, they didn't realize what he. was doing. So, it must be no harm, no. foul. It's like a victimless crime. Michelle states that yes, as a parent, she was devastated because they're. trying to raise their kids, right? But. here's one of their children just making. some really bad choices. Jim Bob says.

>> he was just curious about girls and he. had gone in and just basically touched. them over their clothes while they were. sleeping. They didn't even know he had. done it. And so we went and the first. thing was to protect the girls. >> It was so important for us as parents to. talk to our girls and and make sure that. nothing else had happened. And so they. well one by one as we talked with them. none of them were aware of Josh's. wrongdoing. When asked about what they. did, Jim Bob says, "So I talked to him.

and we put all kinds of punishments on. him. We watched him all the time. time I. took him to work with me and he just I. mean we poured our lives into him. >> We had safeguards that protected them. from that. >> But there was another incident where uh. two different incidents where girls were. like laying on the couch and it was a. and he had touched like over the couch. and actually touched the breast while. they were asleep and so yeah over their. clothes and so it was a it was a very.

difficult situation. Uh, but as we've. talked to other parents and different. ones since then, a lot of families have. said that they've had similar things. happen in their families. >> And so, I mean, >> freaking crazy. What. >> for us? Of course, this is public shame. that our son did this back 12, 13 years. ago. >> Now, Michelle is looking at Jim Bob with. her mouth a gape like either she's. hearing this for the first time or she. doesn't like that he's saying this on. TV, but I don't know. >> What does she not like him saying? >> Just like we talked to a lot of families.

like this is other family. >> Everyone does this. >> And also the couch like how someone was. on the couch and he had touched someone. and she's just like. >> again this was not uh tape or anything. like that. This was like touching. somebody over their clothes. There were. a couple incidents where he touched them. under their clothes. Um but it was like. a few seconds and then he came to us and. was crying and told us what happened and. and it was after the that third time he.

came to us is where we really felt like. you know what we have done everything we. can as parents to handle this in house. >> That's crazy what he just said. >> Yeah. No I this whole 40minute interview. is. >> what what is he saying right now? He's. he keep sounds like he trying to. minimize the situation by adding more. details and the more he says the worse. it becomes. >> Yeah, but like I genuinely think he. believes it which makes it so much. worse. >> He doesn't care. He doesn't think it's.

it's a big deal. >> They go to the church leaders after the. third time. Why not the police? Jim Bob. says, >> you know what, as parents, you're not. mandatory reporters. You are the law. allows for parents to do what they think. is best for their child. And so we got. him out of the home and we sent him down. to this place and that was really. probably the best decision that we made. through this whole process because it. was at that place. This first time Josh. had ever been out of the home. >> But I was thankful. The ray of hope was. that Josh had came and told us and that. his heart was still soft because we.

wouldn't have known about any of these. things if he hadn't came and told us. It. gets disturbing to the point that Megan. Kelly becomes the voice of reason and. she's like, "Hey, can you just talk for. a moment as the father of your daughters. who are also the victims instead of like. the father of the perpetrator?" and he. says, >> "I was so thankful though that. that Josh came and told us and and our. girls, even though this was a very bad. situation, um as we've talked to other families.

who've had, you know, other things. happen, um a lot of their stories were. even worse.". >> I can't imagine my dad saying that. >> Like, that's actually insane. Michelle. talks about it as if it's something that. happens in every single person's house. just says. >> there were a lot of things that changed. in our understanding as parents with, you know, this this first child, first. son, you know, to come to this place in. his life. We're like there's things that. we we've learned even since then that I.

think, you know what, we don't let boys. babysit. We don't let you know, they. don't play hide-and-seek uh together. Two don't go off and hide. I mean, there's just a lot of things that we put. in place and we said, you know, you're. not alone in a room with someone else. You always be out visible and uh you. know, little ones don't sit on big boys. laps or people that you don't know or. even family members, you know, unless. it's your daddy, you know, and so we. just there's boundaries that we've we've. learned.

>> She said they can't play hide-and-seek. anymore. >> Yeah. If your children cannot play. hide-and-seek together because you're. scared that one of them is going to. molest the other, you're doing something. very wrong. >> Wa. >> Megan Kelly is asking, "How could you, you know, unfairly in their view, cuz. this is Fox News, compare transgendered. people to child molesters, cuz that's. what they've done. Suggest that they're. child molesters knowing that you know. about Josh." Just to give you a little. bit of context, in 2014, so just a year. before this interview, Michelle Duggar.

recorded a ROOC call, which is like it. automatically calls a bunch of residents. in the area with an automated message. And in it, she says, "Hello, this is. Michelle Duggar. I'm calling to inform. you of some shocking news that will. affect the safety of Northwest Arkansas. women and children. The Fagville City. Council is voting on an ordinance this. Tuesday night that would allow men, yes. I said men, to use women's and girls. restrooms, locker rooms, showers,

sleeping areas, and other areas that are. designated for females only. >> Basically transgender woman. She's. misgendering them and being transphobic. I don't believe the citizens of Fable. would want males with past child. predator convictions that claim they are. female to have a legal right to enter. private areas reserved for women and. girls. I doubt that Fatville parents. would stand for a law that would. endanger their daughters or allow them. to be traumatized by a man joining them.

in their private space. Parents, who do. you want undressing next to your. daughter at the public swimming pool's. private changing area? I still believe. that we are a society that puts women. and children first. Will you speak up. for protecting women and children? Call. 5758330. and tell the Fateville City Council. members and Mayor Jordan to vote no on. ordinance 119. Megan Kelly's like, "You.

just said every transgender woman is a. child predator that molests children. Meanwhile, they're not." And second of. all, and like the fact that Megan Kelly. is the voice of reason, and this is so. beyond me. Meanwhile, you're harboring a. child predator in your house. Michelle. responds with as many neurons firing in. her brain as a tater tot. I think that. protecting young girls and not allowing. young men and men in general to go into. a girl's locker room is just common.

sense. But this this is different. because you injected child molestation. into it. >> You weren't even just transphobic with. it. You just called them all child. molesters. Jim Boob Jim Bob the king of. semantics interrupts. I. >> think you actually said pedophile in. that. And actually a pedophile is a. adult that prays on children. Joshua was. actually 14 and just turned 15 when he. did what he did. And I think the legal. definition is 16 and up for being an. adult praying on a child. >> So he was a child praying on a child.

>> Okay. >> Exactly what did they do to protect. their daughters? All they did from that. point on that we can tell as nizens is. they put locks. So they have this new. house that they designed and on one side. you have the boys' room. It's a common. room with all the boys. The lock is from. the outside. Do they lock them in there. at night? I guess which is I mean you. you're going to get arrested for that. because if there's a fire they can't get. out. Like that's very dangerous. And. then the girls room. You actually have. to walk through Jim Bob and Michelle's.

room to get to the girls' room. >> Okay. >> And if you want to know whose bright. idea this interview was, look no further. than Chad Gallagher. Chad Gallagher is a. political consultant that focuses on. crisis management and government. relations. He was a large figure in Mike. Huckabe's early political career or. earlier I should say. That man is pretty. old. He's also the current ambassador to. Israel and he's got like a very. terrifying aura. He looks like President. Snow from Hunger Games. I would not be. personally surprised if he kind of acted. like it too. But Chad Gallagher gets.

hired by the Dogggers to help manage. this full-blown PR crisis. The whole. goal, according to Jill from her book, is quote, "Chad was the one who was. setting up the Megan Kelly interview to. try and get it to where TLC would be. cool with moving forward with the show.". Obviously, Fox News was chosen because. the Duggar's viewers are super. conservative. But the real reason is. they decide that this is going to be the. classic PR stunt response of redirect. and deflect. The family's message is. going to pivot from Josh's crimes to. victimhood. So, the Duggar parents are.

arguing that the release of the sealed. juvenile records caused the victims to. be further victimized. And all the. sisters will say that is true. And I. want to make it abundantly clear. I. agree with it. But that being the only. takeaway from this case is kind of. absurd as parents to the victims as. well. And if Jim Bob and Michelle really. cared about the daughters that were. victimized by Joshua, this is a very. very sick way of expressing that because. right after Jim Bob and Michelle get off. the counter stools in walk, 24year-old. Jill and 22-year-old Jessa.

>> Mhm. >> They're both married at this point, Jill. is a mom. Jessa is expecting and they're. asked by Megan Kelly, "How old were you. when Joshua inappropriately touched. you?". >> Jill says she was 12 and Jessa was 9 or. 10. the whole energy of this interview. I mean, it's pretty clear, at least it. feels from the audience perspective, that the girls do not want to do this. interview that there is some pressure. element to this. I can't speak for. Jessa, nor can I speak for Jill, but. Jill has come out to say that she felt. highly pressured into salvaging the.

family image. Her husband, Derek, states. that Jill's participation in this. interview is quote, "I wouldn't describe. it as voluntary. It was more like being. thrust into a suicide mission. [music]. you're going to be harmed, but they. wanted you to take the hit to ensure the. show continues because it cannot fail. They would do anything to recoup their. investment, even if it meant Jill was. collateral damage. Jill says in her book. that she's listening to Chad, the PR. guy, and her dad talking about this. Megan Kelly interview. And the. conversation goes something like this. No need for Josh to appear. No way.

Maybe Michelle takes the lead. That. could work. Who does the interview? It's. got to be a female. Megan Kelly. [music]. Megan Kelly would be great. Jill is asked about this in an Amazon. Prime documentary called Shiny Happy. People. And in it, she seems really. traumatized by the interview that she. felt pressure and she felt like she was. the only one that could fix it. She says. it was like, "Okay, we need you to fall. in line here and do these interviews for. the show. Go here, do this thing and. that thing to kind of like rally the. troops and get it back together." I.

didn't want to be there. I wanted to. help my parents and I felt like I was. the only one who could do this and I was. the only one who could fill that role. The interview is not something that I'm. proud of. If I hadn't felt obligated to. do one, [music] you know, one, do it for. the sake of the show and two, for the. sake of my parents, I wouldn't have done. it. I didn't want to be there. I wanted. to help my parents. Jessa has not really. spoken out about whether or not she too. felt pressure from her parents to do the. interview. Though, I do think that the. internet has come to their own. conclusion just by the way that they. respond to Megan Kelly's questions.

Jessa states in the interview that she. thinks the public is blowing the whole. thing out of proportion. And again, I'm. not like this is what she says and I. think this is why people think that she. was also pressured. She says that people. are calling Joshua a monster, a child. molester. And she says that is so. overboard and a lie really. I mean, people will get mad at me for saying. that, but I'm like, I can say this. You. know, I was one of the victims, so I can. speak out and I can say this and and set.

the record straight here. Like in Josh's. case, he was a boy, young boy in puberty. and a little too curious about girls and. that got him into some trouble and he. made some bad choices. Um but really the. extent of it was. mild inappropriate touching um on fully. clothed victims. Um most of it while. girls were sleeping. didn't even know. about it until he went and confessed it.

to my parents and they shared it with. us. I think for us our situation is so. different than most girls in that he was. he's very subtle in the way like he knew. in his mind my actions are wrong and I. have bad intentions but he was very sly. like the girls didn't catch on you know. it was like okay if he catches the girl. sleeping you know like a quick feel or. whatever and or like you know if you're. just not really aware you know in the. situations that happened when the girls. were awake it was like they weren't.

aware of what was happening it was very. it was very subtle. And so I think that. for us it's like, okay, we realize this. is serious, but at the same time, it. wasn't like a horror story or like this. terrible thing where we're like, >> oh my goodness, >> that's one of the that's one of the. headline covers, House of Horrors. >> Yeah, >> it's ridiculous. >> That is not how you view it. >> No. And I think my parents, they acted. um in a and I can see looking back as an. adult now, they handled the situation.

very well. Jill breaks down in the. interview talking about all of this. becoming public and a lot of internet. users agree on a few things. The police. report without better redactions. probably shouldn't have been made. public. Even if inouch got this police. report, they should have further. redacted it so that you could not. decipher at all who any of the victims. were. >> Mhm. >> There were not enough redactions to. safeguard the victims. It was pretty.

clear who everybody was. And then the. internet agrees, though there is some. debate about whether or not it should. have been made public or not. That's up. for debate. But they do agree with Jill. Like there should have been better. safeguards. However, netzens also notice. from a trauma standpoint the fact that. the girls are displaying more trauma. about the information being made public. while repeating very similar statements. as their parents about the actual abuse. It seems like somewhat of an internet. indication of how the parents told the. girls to feel. Maybe not how they.

genuinely felt in that moment is what. the internet believes. It's all made. worse by the fact that Josh is in the. room while they're being interviewed by. Megan Kelly. Jill writes in her book, "Answering all of Megan's questions with. Josh watching from a couch just out of. shot was like having a bandage ripped. off a deep and open wound. It was agony. so painful that I didn't really pause to. ask why Josh was allowed to be there in. the first place. What was worse was the. fact that I had hoped it would calm. things down. It didn't. She says, "I had. no boundaries, no sense of what I needed.

to do to protect myself. I was terrified. and didn't want to do the interview at. all, but I felt like it was the only way. to prove my love and commitment to my. parents. [music] I thought I knew how. much it would cost me." And the worst. part is they do this interview and then. the Ashley Madison scandal breaks and. Josh he does like this really apology. that we covered in part one and two and. then he just like goes to rehab. Jill. says in an interview later watching the. way that my parents protected my brother. but then used me and some of my sisters.

It was hard and it's still hard to. swallow. There's like one point where I. call my dad out about it and I just say. like, "You treat me worse than you treat. my brother, my pedophile brother.". >> In the interview, they state or were. encouraged to state. >> I think by the time that all of that was. done, the report was made and. everything, it was very obvious to. everyone, us and our family, friends, officials, that Josh was a completely.

changed person. He had not gone down. that path for years. He was he was. humble before God, before us, before the. the officials that were involved. >> So, InTouch breaks the news, this. interview airs, and then the Ashley. Madison leak happens, and then 2015. continues to be a pivotal year for the. Duggar family because of Joshua. >> So, after 2015, this all came out. They. are done with the show. Oh, we're still. not even done with 2015.

>> Oh. Oh, I thought you say 20 Oh, 2015. Okay. >> Yeah, because right after the Ashley. Madison leak. >> Uhhuh. >> A lawsuit drops. >> Huh. >> Joshua Duggar is being sued by an adult. film actress for assault and intentional. affliction of emotional distress. >> Okay, I have to give you some context. Danica Dylan is the adult film actress, but she was also doing a lot of dancing. and paid appearances for local clubs. She says that in March of 2015, so. earlier this year, Joshua Duggar came in. and paid about $600 for a lap dance. And.

again, this is also shocking. It just. adds more elements to the sadistic. quality of Joshua Duggar because his. wife and kids are wearing $2 flip-flops. Like, they never buy anything new. They. thrift. Anna Duggar will only cook him. homemade meals to save money, and he's. out here paying $600 for a lap dance. And then he offered her $1,500 for full. intimacy at a local hotel. In an. interview, she says, "He was very rough. with me. [music] In all honesty, though it was consensual, it more or.

less felt like I was being. He was. tossing me around like a ragd doll, forcing me to go into positions." And. she says that she has no clue who this. guy was. Like she just thought it was a. patron of the club. She was terrified. She runs into him a month later at a. second club and he's like profusely. apologizing. He walked up to me and he. goes, "I am so sorry for the things that. I did to you. I've [music] been a fan of. your movies. I've watched your scenes. that this is what you were into. I'm.

sorry if I ever mistreated you." [music]. And I believed him. That night, they end. up being intimate again. And she says he. actually was. a completely different person the second. time. I mean, he was a little rough. So, the Duggars, they fight this lawsuit. They first state that Danica Dylan. herself stated in the interviews that. she never said no and that technically. it was consensual. That technically it. was consensual sexual contact for. payment. That was her description of it. And then they later state, well Joshua. Duggar was never even in the area that.

Danica Dylan said that he was. Eventually, Danica Dylan drops the case. with prejudice, which means that this is. something that she tried to fight, but. it means that she can never refile a. lawsuit against Joshua Duggars for these. crimes, alleged crimes, which has a lot. of people at the time believing that. Danica Dylan lied because, oh, the. Duggars are getting press. Oh, so much. is happening with Josh Duggar. She's. probably lying because she's an adult. film actress. There is no public merit. decision saying that Danica Dylan lied. She could have felt overpowered by the.

Duggars and their millions of dollars. that they have ready to fight this case. She could have felt like her career, her. profession, everything that she's ever. done would be thrown in her face and. she'd be dragged through the mud like a. lot of victims had this actually gone to. trial. She could have received hush. money payout that is not on record. Many. netizens are commenting, I think her. story is accurate, but I believe that. maybe she got some details wrong and the. lawyers punched holes in her story and. they convinced her to drop it. I think. it's not unexpected or unreasonable that. she couldn't remember every single. thing. So like maybe it wasn't the exact.

date she said. Maybe it wasn't the exact. club. That's what netizens are saying. People believe that Jim Bob and Michelle. would do anything to get rid of Joshua's. quote unquote problems. But like what do. you expect from the Duggar parents? Jim. Bob and Michelle. In a blog article, Michelle Duggar teaches her audience. She's giving advice to anybody watching. if you're going to be a newlywed. She. writes, "Number one, this is my advice. to all newlyweds. Be joyfully available. Whenever I speak with groups of other.

moms and married women, I always share. this advice. It's been the best advice. that I was ever given in regard to my. relationship with my husband, Jim Bob. She says that one day her friend was. telling her about it. You've got to. remember this. Anyone can iron Jim Bob's. shirt. Anyone can make his lunch for. him. He can get his lunch somewhere. else. But you are the only one who can. meet that special need that he has in. his life for intimacy. You're it. You're. the only one. So don't forget that he. needs you. So when you're exhausted by.

the end of the day, maybe from dealing. with the little ones and you fall into. the bed so exhausted at night, don't. forget about him because you and he are. the only ones who can have that time. together. No one else in the world can. meet that need. So be available and not. just available, but be joyfully. available for him. smile and be willing. to say, "Yes, sweetie. I'm here for you. no matter what. Even though you may be. exhausted and big pregnant, and you may. not feel like he feels, I'm still here. for you, and I'm going to meet that need.

because I know it's a need for you.". >> Wow. >> She says that she will be sharing this. information with her daughters who get. married. But the crazier part is that. this is written after the Ashley Madison. scandal. And there are insider sources. who know the family that said that Anna. Duggar wasing pissed because she thought. that Michelle Duggar was saying it was. her fault that she was not joyfully. available. So Josh Duggar cheated on. her. Which Michelle Duggar, why are you. even writing blog posts right now? This.

is not the time for this The. religious group that they belong to is. the IBLP, which more on this later, but. it's led by a man named Bill Gothard. He. thinks cabbage patch dolls are evil. reincarnated. Cabbage patch dolls. They. look like little dolls. Okay, they look. cute. But he said that the creator is a. warlock who bewitched every single one. to carry the soul of the devil. >> Okay, >> so like you just know where that's going. to go. Bill Gothard goes on to create. these wisdom booklets. This teaches the.

followers everything. They're all. homeschooled. It teaches them what to. wear, how to choose the right. toothbrush, and detrimentally what to do. in the event of being sexually. assaulted. In the wisdom booklet, they. have this whole part on what to do. And. it asks, "What part of your being did. the offender damage? And which part of. yourself did you damage with that. bitterness and guilt?" And it asks you. to ask the question, why did God let it. happen?

And maybe because we're alling. dimwitted, it gives you multiple choice. answers. A, immodest stress. B, indecent. exposure. Three, being out from. protection of your parents. D, being. with evil friends. And if you're not at. fault, congratulations. This is a. learning lesson for you. Quote, God. compensated physical abuse with. spiritual power. What is being mighty in. spirit? [music] Greater faith, spiritual. discernment, genuine love, wisdom, and. understanding. creativity, energy and.

enthusiasm, joy, inner [music] peace. It. reads that a reason for your bitterness. after essay is he damaged your body. Important step dedicate your body. [music] to God. If you had to choose no. physical abuse or being mighty in. spirit, [music]. what would you choose? So he's saying. after you've been assaulted, you're. going to become mighty in spirit. Would. you give up not being a saint or would. you rather be mighty in spirit? Just to. give you an idea of how deeply followers.

believed in this brain deadad concept, and I'm not blaming the people that grew. up in this concept because it's for the. adults to realize, hey, I'm not going to. teach my kid this. Another higher up in. the IBLP leadership ladder. He runs a. counseling camp. He says, you know, what. you're hearing about Josh is a stupid. thing that a little boy did. In the. seminar, Bill Gothard calls it natural. curiosity. Had it been as traumatic as. they make it out to be, the sisters. would have been bitter. and the sisters. are not bitter. In another wisdom. booklet, there's a little Q&A portion.

that reads, "What if a wife is a victim. of her husband's hostility?" Basically, what if you're a domestic violence. victim? The answer reads, "There is no. victim if we understand that we are. called to suffer for righteousness. because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example that you should. follow his steps." Christ was not a. victim. He willingly gave his life for. us. Christ's life teaches us how to.

suffer. Question. If my husband violates. God's moral laws against our children, shouldn't I at least separate from him. in order to protect our children? A. father's authority in the home is. derived from and governed by the laws of. God. If he violates these laws, God uses. higher powers to discipline him. More on. these wisdom buckles later, but it's. very clear Jim Bob and Michelle along. with their son Joshua are not at all the. wholesome family that they keep trying. to shove down our throats on TLC. And. that is why in 2015 TLC cancels the.

show. And it all starts because there is. sin in the camp. >> Wait, when was she arrested? >> 2021. There is only one rule in this story. Survive. In the new Netflix film Apex, Charize Theren is Sasha, a woman testing. her limits in the Australian wilderness. But what starts as a test of endurance. turns into a deadly game with a ruthless.

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[music]. April 29th, 2021, Homeland Security. investigators walk into a car dealership. and they have a federal search warrant. for all of Joshua Duggar's devices. The. first thing Joshua Duggar does is reach. for his phone to call his attorney, but. before he can, the agent sees it because. the phone is now evidence. Then it comes. the big question. Before the agents tell. Joshua Duggar what they're even. investigating, he opens his mouth and he.

asks, "What is this about? Has somebody. been downloading child pornography?". >> What? >> It's the kind of question that answers. itself. But it doesn't even matter. because based off of all of his devices, the evidence is already there. It is. uncovered that Joshua Duggar used a. computer bypassing Covenant's eyes, the. software he and his wife have to make. sure that he doesn't watch legal. explicit videos featuring adults. He. bypasses that application, goes on to. the dark web to download hundreds of. CSAM images. Law enforcement, they track.

the images to a used car dealership that. he works at. And on his computer, there's that evidence that he downloaded. and watched these files, multiple videos. of full-on assault, at least 65. photographs of CISAM, where one depicts. a child being locked in a dog kennel. The victims are between 18 months to 12. years old. He is charged with one count of. receiving CC Sam and one count of. possessing CS Sam just a few days before. his arrest. Joshua and Anna Duggar.

announced that they were expecting their. seventh child and he has now been. arrested for downloading and possessing. images of toddlers children being abused. while celebrating the fact that he's. going to be adding another child into. his family. The judge even later tells. Josh, "The ages of the children depicted. in the downloaded materials are very. close to the ages of your children. There's a lot of reasons that Joshua is. nicknamed pest on Reddit forums. One of. them being he just like won't go down. without squirming and fighting and.

trying to take everyone down with him, too. >> How did they even find this? Is this all. come from the 2015 stuff? They just keep. on looking into him or someone tipped. him off or. >> No. So a lot of how Cesam is caught is. they have this huge database where every. CSAM. picture, screenshot, thumbnail, video is. logged with a specific metadata code and. that code is then shared with all the. local police stations and all of the.

internet service providers. And so if. anybody's device downloads or sends out. one of those codes, even if they're. using a VPN or whatever they try to do, dark web, it usually flags. >> So then law enforcement will get a flag. in a specific area. Then they'll go to. the ISPs, the internet service. providers, and they'll bring a search. warrant. They're like, "We got a flag in. this area, so we need all of the IP. addresses so we can see whose it is.". >> Mhm. >> And then they usually come with an IP.

address, and that leads to a physical. location. And then they go to that. police station in that jurisdiction and. then they go and arrest. >> They work with the police station, but. it's Homeland Security. >> So this wasn't related to everything. that happened. >> No. Like no one was specifically looking. into Joshua Duggar. >> Wow. >> So that actually is more terrifying. because this is just like an off chance. he got caught. >> Yeah. >> This is not, oh, we've been building a. case on him and this is the first time. he's done something so we're going to. get him. It's just. >> this is just like a coincidence.

Wow, this guy. >> The first problem is the evidentiary. hearing. This is the day before the. trial. There is a three-hour hearing. discussing whether or not Joshua's prior. molestation of his sisters can be. admissible during the trial. Bobby Holt, remember Joshua was courting their. daughter. She's the wife of Jim Hol, also weird politician. She testified. about finding out about the molestation. Jim Bob is also called into court and. his relationship with memory seems to be. highly strategic. He largely states that.

he doesn't remember much. >> Jimbo dad, >> the dad is like, "I don't remember. It. was just years and years ago, a long. time ago. He's almost diminishing the. severity of it." The court even states. the court found Mr. Duggar's selective. lapse in memory to be not credible. He. was obviously reluctant to testify. against his son. It must run in the. family because when Joshua was. interviewed before his arrest, the way. he responds to questions is eerily. [music] calm. He's just asking. I mean, I have quite a few questions about it, but I don't know, you know, how much you can divulge, but. I'm just I'm curious. You're saying.

there's images being uploaded or images. being downloaded. >> The IP address from this had a lot of. CCM associated to it in a peer-to-peer. software program. He's like, well, I do. have a peer-to-peer software program. So, peerto-peer means that you can. transmit files without going through a. third party. It would be like. unencrypted or something like that. I. don't know. I don't use peer-to-peer. software programs like that. Okay? Not. that every time you use a peer-to-p peer. software program, you're doing something. illegal. A lot of people do it because. they just don't want to be surveiled and. a lot of people might need to do it.

because certain areas the surveillance. is. >> Mhm. >> you know, you get it. But Josh is like, "Oh yeah, I have that." And he just. admits it very casually, like, "Doesn't. everyone?" He's also like, "Also, I use. tour, which is how people access the. dark web, if you will." and he's like. >> like a tour like a tour browser or a. tour um. we upload stuff for our cars and things. like that. So he's like, "I use the dark. web for our car dealership." And then. the agents are like, "Are you talking. about Torrrent or Tour?" Cuz those are.

very different things. And he's like, "I. I don't know. I don't know anything.". >> I guess what is the scope is what I've. been trying to say. Like is there some. is there something going on on my. devices where that's been. something's act accessed or something's. downloaded or uploaded or something like. that. >> The officers are like, "Well, that's. what led us here." He later says so. casually, >> "I don't want to beat show say that I'm. guilty or not. [music] I'm just not. saying, you know, on start finding. access accessing inappropriate content. at some point at any point in my life, >> which is crazy. I mean, I will say that.

I will Google some crazy things for. cases, but I can definitively say to a. cop, I have never accessed anything. inappropriate in my lifetime. But he's. like, I I can't say, you know, for sure. I don't want to definitive. Like, I. don't want to put that in, you know what. I mean? It's like, what do you mean? I. think most people can definitively say. that. Regardless, Joshua's history of. molesting his sisters is allowed to be. admitted into trial. But the pest does. not give up. During the trial, he tries. to point the finger. His attorneys. basically do the whole this is a classic.

who done it, you know, who done it and. downloaded the cesam. Am I right? They. even bring in people from Covenant's. eyes to testify how the operating system. only works on Windows. But Joshua went. and got Linux, Linux, I don't know, to. bypass any and all detection that the. software could have. The password used. was allegedly the same password Josh. used for the family's Instagram account. So the same password that he used to. hide the CCM is the same Instagram. family account password. And then Josh.

and his attorneys try to suggest that a. former employee who happened to be a sex. offender probably did this, but they. don't call him to the stand because the. judge is like, "Well, what are you going. to ask him when you call him to the. stand? You can't just like point your. finger at somebody and then say, "Well, maybe it's them." Well, you're not. allowed to bring up his previous. connection if that's what you're trying. to do. Like, you're not allowed to bring. up the fact that he was a previous sex. offender. They're like, "Then don't. bring him in.". >> Which I mean, the courts surmises the. only reason for calling him was to. reveal his offense conviction to the.

jury. The defense also starts arguing. that Joshua should be acquitted because. there's no proof that he actually viewed. the material. Quote, "Mr. Duggar argues. that the court should enter a judgment. of a quiddle as to both counts of. conviction because the jury was not. presented evidence sufficient to show he. actually viewed any CTM. Basically. saying that they need to show proof that. he viewed it to establish needed. convictions. And their last throw it at. the wall and see if it sticks is the. most nonsensical. Joshua Duggar is an. Apple guy. There's no CCAM on any of his.

Apple devices because it's not his. During the trial, it stated multiple. times the files that he was downloading. were quote torture and depicted victims. in visible pain and screaming. One of. the downloads was connected to Daisy's. destruction and the special agent that. worked on this case testified that it. was in quote top five of the worst worst. that I've had to examine. >> The defense. >> is there any conversation or. investigation or anything about his.

kids? No. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> The defense tried to argue that these. statements should be excluded. They want. to exclude any opinion by law. enforcement officers that certain CCAM. images are considered worse than others. I guess they're trying to say worse is. subjective. But the prosecutors, they. bring in proof. Every time Josh would. text his wife that he was going to be. late from work or that he was being held. up somewhere, soon after his computer. would download videos of children.

Additionally, through cell tracking. towers, the prosecutors were able to. prove that one, these videos were. downloaded in the car lot outside of. Joshua's workplace. And two, Joshua was. the only one there at the time that he's. downloading these files. And three, he's. texting his wife that he's going to be. home late. Nobody else is there, not. another employee, nobody. It's also. revealed during the trial that Joshua. would frequent Reddit Snark pages, so a. lot of people started calling him names. for that reason. >> How did they find out about that? >> I think it was going through like the.

Covenant eyes. They were testifying of. his internet browser history. >> Oh wow. >> He's obviously found guilty. But during. sentencing, Michelle, of course, writes. a letter to the judge asking leniency. for her, our son, our firstborn son. In. short, it has everything that you expect. it to have. She states that she wants to. share information about Josh's character. that may not be fully known to the. court, which I think the court knows. enough about Josh's character. But. nevertheless, Josh has a tender heart.

and he's compassionate with others. If. someone is having a difficult time, he. is the first one to encourage or try to. help them in a tangible way. Yet, nobody's trying to lock him up for being. a negative Nancy. Okay? He's a child. predator. She's like, "He's always. positive. He's got a positive attitude.". [music] She says that Josh deserves. leniency because he's been giving money. to a widow friend of theirs for several. years now, and he's also great at work. Side note, he was downloading CISAM in. the parking lot of his workplace. She. continues, "He has set a good example of. applying himself eagerly to his work and.

in many other responsibilities he. carries as a husband and father. We ask. that he would be reunited with his wife. and family in a timely manner. Thank. you, your honor, for taking these. thoughts into consideration.". Anna Duggar has a brother-in-law. So, her sister married this guy and he is. very big in the fundamentalist world. His name is David Waller and he is a. senior pastor at the Fair Park Baptist. Church. He writes a whole letter and. that whole letter just goes on and on. about how good of a person Josh Duggar.

is and why. Quote, "It was Josh Duggar. who offered to help me finish a large. deck project for our in-laws, giving his. time and money during Christmas week to. complete a large deck with a handicap. accessible ramp. It was his generosity. and personal initiative that designed. the cable railing system for the deck to. keep everyone safe and allow wheelchair. access to the Keller's family's double. wide trailer home. He goes on to create. like a laundry list of all the things. Josh has helped with, including. decorating this pastor's laundry room. I.

didn't know interior design is like a. sign of virtue. Then he continues that. he once went on a road trip with Josh. and his family, and one of Josh's kids. were misbehaving. Quote, "I listened as. Josh Duggar stopped the vehicle, took. his little one aside privately and. lovingly, and patiently talked with his. child. I was in awe at the tone and love. that he showed. On a number of. occasions, I've been in Josh Duggar's. home for an overnight visit. I've. observed him gather his children and. read to them from the Holy Scriptures, the Bible, then pray, and then have some. a beautiful time singing songs about.

Jesus while playing the piano." This is. why I despise character witness. statements when it comes to crimes. against children. You feel safe around. him? Great. He's also nice to elderly. people. Great. He loves cats because. that's not the demographic he's abusing. His victims are children, not you, a. full-g grown adult. And how helpful he. is with the porch renovation will never. offset the crimes that he committed. against children. I just don't. understand. The prosecutors have. responded really critically of the. character letter, stating that none of. them, zero of them address Josh's actual. crimes or the victims.

May 25th, 2022, Joshua Duggar is. sentenced to 151 months, 12 and a half. years in federal prison, followed by 20. years of supervised release with the. condition that he is not permitted to. have unsupervised contact with minors, including his own children. [music] He. cannot have a computer, and he. definitely cannot have any explicit. material on his computer of any kind, even the legal ones. The judge even. states, "This is some sick stuff." After. the conviction, Jim Bob and Michelle. stay too. I don't know who. Okay. The.

entire ordeal has been very grievious. Today, God's grace through the love and. prayers of so many has sustained us. Our. hearts and prayers are with anyone who. has ever been harmed through CSAM. In. the days ahead, we will do all we can to. surround our daughter-in-law Anna and. her children with love and support. As. parents, we will never stop praying for. Joshua and loving him. As we do with all. our children in each of life's. circumstances, we place our trust in. God. Thank you for your prayers. Who are. you saying that to? It's just it's.

blasphemous. Okay. A federal agent also. says, "Possessing and viewing CSAM is. not a victimless crime. Every time it's. downloaded or shared, it perpetuates the. trauma and revictimizes the child.". They're all acting like this is some. victimless crime. In fact, they're. acting like Joshua is the victim of the. crime. And all while this is happening, Jim Bob randomly decides to run for the. Arkansas State Senate. He announces his. run a few weeks before Josh's trial. kickstarts. And he says, "Now more than. ever, we need a bold voice that is pro-.

family, pro business, proun, and. pro-life. It's time for conservatives to. demand courageous leadership that puts. Arkansas families, jobs, and our. constitutional liberties first.". >> What in the world is happening? >> Yeah. He also does his favorite thing. that a lot of right-wing politicians and. influencers do when they're caught up in. actual federal crimes. Cancel culture. and the radical left want to keep us. from being involved in politics. No, we want that because your son is. committing crimes against children. How's that pro- family or pro-life? He.

says, "I will not allow the liberal. left, social media, or fake news to. define me and my family. The liberals. scream, "It's my body." when they want. to end the life of an unborn child, but. would gladly force mandatory vaccines. upon everyone without hesitation. >> So, you think he ran just to. >> Nobody knows. Like, nobody some people. think he ran to take the news off of. Joshua Duggar, that this is even more. shocking that he's running that it'll. diminish the shockability of the trial.

Other people think that he just like. doesn't care about any of his kids. >> I see. >> Yeah. I think that he should go stuff. his face with the tater tot casserole. and stopping such a demonic presence in. everybody's lives. But unsurprisingly, he loses and the Duggar story continues. About 5 weeks before the guilty verdict, Anna Duggar gives birth to their seventh. child, [music] Madison. And everyone had. hoped that the Duggars would not make. the headlines anymore, but they do with. two more [music] arrests, all involving.

children. Between 2021 to 2026, a lot is. happening. Even between 2015 to 2026, even more has happened. And I just need. to get everybody caught up. Several of. the Duggar children have publicly. distanced themselves from the church and. their parents. The church being the. teachings of IBLP, Bill Gothard. Bill. Gothard, in my humble opinion, is like. certified insane. And I mean zero. offense to it. I grew up in a religious. house, so I grapple with some level of. religious trauma. And I still think that.

religion is an insanely beautiful thing. and I cast no judgment on anybody who is. religious. But Bill Gothard makes my. brain melt. He in my opinion ran a cult. Perhaps my definition of a cult is. different from anybody else, but just. from my limited research, I think that. he was running a cult. And apparently. Bill Gothard would do this thing where. if there is a stain on the carpet, he. wanted young women in the church to get. on their hands and knees and clean the. stains out of the carpets with a rag or. a spoon. So someone who used to work at. the main church, he thought the stains. were the problem, right? So he goes.

ahead and he cleans the carpet with. industrial cleaner to get out all the. stains. And like the young woman, they. would always be complaining because. their backs were, you know, aching from. all the cleaning the carpet, which. rightfully. And so they're so happy. To. which quote, "God visited the center and. was livid to see no girls cleaning by. hand. He ordered the center leadership. staff to round some girls up to start. cleaning. It was something that Gothur. just wanted to see. He didn't care that. I would come at night and industrially. clean the carpet and get rid of all the. stains. He wanted to see girls on their. hands and knees scrubbing with rags and.

spoons. And I think that it was maybe a. recruiting tactic. I imagine very. specific types of people would walk in. with their wives and their children and. think, "Now, this is a good God-fearing. church. This is the type of example I. want to set in my family." And the. Duggar family were very, very close with. Bill Gothur. And they followed his. teachings quite literally to a tea. Such. as Bill Gothard would state, when a. young person listens to rock music, like. a rock song, even a Christian rock song, they give Satan a little square in their.

soul. The soul is depicted like a. chessboard. And you give up one of those. squares to Satan. He's playing chess. with his soul and we're just trying to. survive in this economy. He's also. racist in my opinion. Okay, Jesus. Christ. Nobody is more seasoned happy. than a religious cult leader. But I feel. he is racist and that's why he hates. rock music. His teachings read, "To the. delinquency of minors, the. characteristic offbeat in today's rock. music has been traced to the satanic. rituals in the jungles of West Africa.". It was this type of drum beat which.

certain tribe members were specifically. trained for in order to open the people. to demonic control. So, you can't listen. to rock music, but you also can't be a. And Bill Gothard's definition of. a is showing a shoulder. If any. sort of assault or bad thing happens to. a woman, it's because a woman was. showing a shoulder and leading men. astray. >> But is being pedophile okay with him? >> That is natural curiosity, my friend. Just kidding. I'll try to get another. one. Okay. One leader of the IBLP. teaching states, "The problem is that.

men have a problem with their eyes. The. solution is to avoid eye traps. The. shorter the skirt, the more vicious the. trap." So the solution, right? If you. were to tell me that all men have a. problem with their eyes, which is not. what I'm saying at at all, but if that. were the case, then the most logical. solution would be to blindfold all men. or gouge out their eyes. That would make. more sense in her logic if that's the. real problem. But instead, she says it's. the woman's fault. They have in the. wisdom booklet, which is their. teachings, pictures of women wearing.

various different outfits, and people. are forced to ask, "Can you identify the. eye traps in these pictures? What could. you do to alter them? But maybe it's not what you're wearing. Maybe it's that little eye twitch thing. you do, like you know, the spasm of the. muscle in the eye. But they consider. that winking. And only wink. Yeah, you can't wink. It's a very horish. thing to do. And quote, "Those who fall. to her whoredom are stripped of. resources and vibrancy of life. And what. do get? Crabs. Crabs." quote,

"The public lice, often called the crab, is only one of several parasites which. can be transmitted through immorality.". [music]. I mean, the logic is sound. If you have. the genetic makeup of a russet potato, they've also said some other. controversial things such as the. abortions in America right now, there is. currently a baby holocaust. Bill Gothard. states, "The one who has made porn. popular in America has done more damage. to America than 100 Hitlers." Ginger.

Duggar has since left IBLP and denounced. Bill Gothard's teachings. And she says, "I was in the very back row of a 15. passenger van and somebody turned on. Christian worship music and I was like, "This is the day we all die." And I was. crying in the back seat of a car. Like. that's how shook up I was over it. Jill. says that whenever she wore pants, that. was seen as a small act of independence. And quote, "Anyone who is making. decisions for themselves that the. parents don't give their blessing, that. is seen as rebellious." One former. member of the IBLP says, "Girls were.

taught that boys were almost unable to. control their lust. It was our. responsibility to help them control it. by dressing modestly. And if we didn't, we just got what we had coming to us.". One victim of IBLP says that when a man. shows up in your life and decides he. wants you, it's not up to you to say no. If you don't want him back, you have to. come to terms with it because this is. truly what God wants for you. Dangerously, the wisdom booklet teaches. that in the event of unfaithfulness in. the marriage, quote, "Allow for divorce. and or remarage is basically destroying. someone's relationship with Christ and.

the church." An article on the IBLP's. website reads, "Serve and appeal to your. husband." And it gives these like short. biblical references, but it reads, "You. must ask God for a plan on how you can. serve your king in order to gain his. heart and present your appeal.". They talk about a woman named Esther. from the book. It was from the place of. service that Esther was able to make her. appeal. As she served the king, she. gained his attention. [music].

He was now ready to listen to her heart. And whoever is writing this article is a. woman. And she writes, "This area is a. challenge for me. I tend to serve my. children before my husband. To be. honest, most of the time I'm so busy. that my home becomes like a self-service. gas station for everyone, which isn't. good. Once again, ask the Lord what you. can do to serve your husband as Esther. did. Ladies, fast, pray, cry out to the. Lord, surrender to him, and serve your. husband. Now, the mind-boggling aspect.

of this is it's written under an article. focusing on what to do if your husband. is not sorry for having an affair. Or an IBLP speak, quote, "What can I do. if my husband is not repentant over. moral failure?" I mean clearly this is. not a safe space for women with one. former member saying there was never hey. what do you want? It was always God. wants this and if you don't like it you. need to submit and be broken. People ask. me why I stayed. I was isolated with no. one to help me leave. I was brainwashed. into believing God would hurt me if I. didn't do everything I was told to do.

And unfortunately, Bill Gothard has been. accused of essay by like 30 women. >> And [clears throat] I could just do. another multi-part series on Bill. Gothard because. >> is he still. >> he has stepped down from the IBLP. church, but I don't know how much money. he made off with. At one point IBLP was. like a $90 million institution. But with. that said, I mean, some duckers have. remained religious but just not. following Bill Gothard. Others have. spoken up. Some have been vocal. Others. have found themselves in other scandals. of their own. So, I'm just going to run.

you through the major scandals. Jana. ends up getting charged with child. endangerment. Nobody knew what was going. on. There were all sorts of theories. circulating because now Duggar and child. endangerment, it seems synonymous with. one kind of thing. And Jana makes an. online statement. I'm only sharing this. because the media has been having a. field day with it all. The raw facts. I. was babysitting a few months ago when. one of the children wandered outside. alone. A passer by who saw the child. called the police. This resulted in a. written citation as well as a follow-up. with child welfare who concluded that it.

was an accident and the child was. unharmed. They recognized it was a case. of a child slipping out of the house. when you turn your back for a moment. It. all happened so quickly. It was so. scary. I'm grateful for law enforcement. and those who protect and serve our. community. I was certainly never. arrested like some may have implied in. the end. I was just upset at myself that. this happened at all, but so thankful it. all ended safely and that's truly what. mattered the most to me. Then you have. Jill and Derek. They have been the most. outspoken about the Duggar family and. everything that they've been through. They've also had their fair share of.

critics online. They went through a. missionary phase where a lot of people. said that they just like kind of played. white savior. So they would go into. different countries and they recount. stories of how they would treat their. bathroom as the safe room. And there's. this one incident where they hear this. huge metal clinking. They rush Jill into. the bathroom. Dererick is ready to. fight. Jill is messaging her family to. pray. Turns out a shower rack fell down. But you know, it could have been one of. the terrifying PC's out there basically.

>> What? What? What? What is happening? >> Okay, this is maybe like the nuance of. it is lost. Um cuz I grew up in a church. that would do missions and a lot of it. just turns into Americans. going into countries typically in South. America, Central America, and then. acting terrified for their god-forsaken. lives, even though they are the ones. that wanted to go there in the first. place, but they're acting so terrified. like, "Oh my god, how can I be here? My.

life is at risk." And then they're. saving people at the same time. I don't. know how they do that. How do you be so. terrified of the country that you're. going into and then save people at the. same time who don't even need to be. saved? [laughter]. >> Okay, >> I see. Okay, I that makes sense. I get. it now. >> Yeah. So, like all these stories that. they're sharing is really riing people. up because it's like you were that. dramatic over a shower wreck that fell. down. >> Yeah. >> Like what were you expecting PC's to. break in? And what what like what is the. stigma that you have in your head? What.

are they going to do? They also like do. multiple episodes where they go on. missionaries and they just talk about. they're terrified for their lives like. they could die at any moment and I'm. like. >> right. >> you like what's happening. Derek is also. deeply deeply transphobic. I don't know. if that's present past but he was to a. very high degree. He literally targeted. a young 16-year-old girl, a transgender. girl named Jazz Jennings, stating, "Transgender is a myth. Gender is not.

fluid. It's ordained by God." A lot of. people had their flabbers gasted by that. tweet. Because technically, you could. argue that God is a myth. I'm not saying. that's what I think. I'm just saying. read the room a little before you start. tweeting some weird nonsense. He also. just like continues to bully and. misgender Jazz Jennings for no apparent. reason other than being a giant. transphobic person. Also, I will say as. someone who grew up in the South in a. very religious area, going to church all. the time, I can to some degree have some.

level of understanding for people who. grow up in these bigoted spaces that. then believe these things because they. are instilled with fear and all of these. other tactics to manipulate children at. a young age to believe these things. until they become an adult. But I just. don't think he was 28 bullying a. 16-year-old girl. Like this is not like. he's 16 and talking to other kids his. age. He was 28 years old bullying a. 16-year-old girl. >> Mhm.

>> He also stated that Planned Parenthood. was a hate group and he celebrated a. baker who refused to make a wedding cake. for a gay couple. They haven't. >> These are all on Twitter that. >> Wow. >> He hasn't necessarily apologized. formally, but they've kind of like in. subtle ways walked back a lot of their. views. They've stated that they have a. ton of friends now who are not Christian. and are even part of the LGBTQ plus. community. >> Just because you [music]. um disagree with someone that you can't. be friends.

>> I hate that. I hate that so much. Why. are you disagreeing about someone else's. existence? Like you shouldn't have a. opinion. Like what does that mean? Like. I disagree that you're a real person. that you can't do that. It's just not. rooted in logical. Anyway, they also. start saying that, well, everyone's a. sinner anyway cuz ultimately we're all. sinners. >> So, I don't know if you can really call. that like they're standing firm that. being gay is kind of a sin. So, there's a lot to unpack there. Yeah. And.

like I said, I think with a lot maybe of. the younger Duggars, it's easier to give. not leeway, no excuses, but I think. they're too damn old. Like I don't You. could argue, well, I grew up in this. type of situation where this was. normalized. You're too damn old to be. doing this. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Like especially with the internet these. days, get online, watch a video, go help. yourself, get a therapist. You're so. damn weird. Jessa, there is a situation. on Instagram where she had posted where.

she went to the Holocaust Museum. Within. 200 words, she's able to express that. the Holocaust Museum was depressing and. sobering, which everybody agrees with. But then she goes on to somehow state. that racism is because of evolutionary. theory. And she ignores the fact that. the Holocaust was the result of a deeply. Christian nation, but then turns it. around to say that we need to be the. voice for those who cannot speak up. #prolife. Then it's revealed. So because. and you know what I think.

there's just so much with the duggers. like there are some people who have a. level of understanding for them because. maybe they also grew up in very strict. religious environments where this was. taught to you and so you almost go down. that route. But I think as an as an. adult there's really no excuse to. self-educate. But also when you are so. vocal you're going to you're going to. get thrown back at you. Like if you're. throwing at other people, you. better expect it's going to get thrown. back at you. And this is why this. becomes a whole topic. So it is.

uncovered that Jessa underwent a medical. procedure which is called a DNC. And if. you want to be very technical in the. medical sense, it is technically an. abortion. Jessa and Michelle have made. some really offensive comments comparing. abortion to the Holocaust, calling it. the baby holocaust. And Jessa has. responded online writing, "Women have. DNC's for many reasons, not all of which. involve killing a living human being. My. baby's heart had stopped beating 3 weeks. before I had a DNC. Each person is. created in the image of God. Genesis. 1:27. And to purposefully destroy a baby.

in the womb is an affront to the God who. created that life. There's a world of a. difference between someone dying and. someone being killed. To equate one to. the other and to a mother grieving the. loss of her baby, no less, is severely. distasteful. There is a world of a. difference between a mortician and a. murderer. Even a child understands the. difference between the two. So, a lot of. people started dragging her about the. DNC. And I mean, you I don't know. You. could just argue like, "Oh, should we. have come at a woman in her time of.

grief of losing a fetus or or she kind. of deserved it? I don't know. It's up to. you." And then Ginger and her husband. Jeremy have come out publicly against. Bill Gothur and they have joined a. different denomination in Christianity. that some also liken to a cult with a. lot of people believing that Ginger. traded in one cult for another. Her. husband has also gotten into a little. bit of trouble. He um is an ex soccer. player with a criminal history. He was. drunk and he tried to assault a cop. He. was not successful. So the officers were.

like, "You're drunk. Get your together.". And then he grabbed one of the cops arms. in a forceful manner. He was arrested, but he's now like a pastor and he says. very weird things like there's a reality. show about a family in California or. something and they got all these kids. and whatever. It's a show, but one of. the little boys was 5 years old and. decided he didn't want to be a boy. anymore, but now he really wants to be a. girl. And so the parents say, "Okay, well if you're a girl, you're a girl.".

So they go along with it. Well, that is. a sign that the child is ruling, the. child [music] is. The parents have no. discipline over the child or no. instruction of what's wrong and right. It's just whatever you feel you do. And. now you've got a child who's barely come. to the cognitive understanding of the. world the last couple of years. determining that how they were created. is wrong and they're going to redo that. How do you lead as a parent then? He. says, quote, "Biblically mandated. discipline has absolutely no physical. consequence to the child, and it's to. drive the foolishness from them, and.

it's called abuse in our day." He also. goes on to like do a whole weird. Instagram video about Kanye's new album, Jesus is King. He says he listened to. the whole album, and he saw messages. from people saying like, "Oh, well, Jesus would never save Kanye because. Kanye is still the same filthy sinner. that he's always been, which he believes. is wrong because Jesus forgives all.". Jedadia. This one right here. >> Uhhuh. >> He uh runs for office in Arkansas State. Representatives 2020 standard platform. He's just like pro-life, proun, pro.

religion. In his vote for me video, he. says, >> "Hello, District 89. This is Jed Ducker. running to be your next state. representative. I will fight for sound. economic policies, push for more tax. relief for all our canons, and advocate. for conservative values. I'm a Christian. and I will stand up for religious. liberties. I'm pro-life and I will be an. advocate for the unborn and I will. always defend our Second Amendment. With. your prayer, support, and help, I look. forward to serving you as a strong. conservative voice in Little Rock.

>> They wipe the floor with him. He goes up. against a Democrat, Megan Godfrey. And. this is like Arkansas is usually the. parts they're from are very conservative. and mostly Republican. I mean, Megan. Godfrey flipped her seat Democratic. >> in I think it was like 20 years that a. Republican held that seat. She flipped. it for the first time in 20 years. Yeah. >> How old just. >> she's just competent. She's like. a PhD. She has a master's degree. I.

think she was a teacher. She just knows. what she's talking about. And you know. what he does to this accomplished woman? >> Mhm. >> He calls her liberal princess. And he. starts doing all these ads of like, are. we really going to vote for liberal. princess over here? And then so the. Democrats are like, hey, bunk bed Jed, why don't you shut the up? So they call. him bunk bed Jed because as he's running. for office, he's still sharing a bunk. bed with his brother, >> Jeremiah. >> I don't know if it was Jeremiah, but it. was somebody.

>> and he knows nothing about anything. It's like empty up here. So yeah. And. then in 2026, like a few months ago, Anna Duggar has finally come back. online. So, she was largely gone from. the public eye after Joshua Duggar's. arrest and conviction later in 2022. She. is now breeding golden retrievers in her. backyard and posting on social media. again. Netzens don't really know how to. feel about her. Some people think again, you're too damn old to be doing this and.

you have children. And I will say it is. always a parent and not a mom. And like. I think it's always thrust upon the mom, but it is also a dad's duty. It is. always a parent's duty to protect their. own children. So that type of criticism. I think is warranted, but some people. are just conflicted on whether they. despise or not Anna Duggar. One comment. reads, "I just think this is all around. sad, maybe even a bit tragic in regards. to Anna. like she married this guy so. young and I remember the courting and. early marriage stuff and she was just so.

happy and it was cringy and culty and. weird but there she was marrying into. fundamentalist Christian royalty and. getting away from her family. She was. like really all in on this. She believed. in this. She was excited for this. The. only time these girls get to feel. special in their lives is when they. court marry and have babies. And now. what does she have to show for it? What. can she do? Choking on the Kool-Aid as. much as she is now with all these kids. she is utterly and helplessly dependent. on the duggers. When you're that. brainwashed, there's no moment when the. penny drops and you're free. Freedom can. also suck. It's unfamiliar, scary, and.

expensive. People also believe the Duggars will do. everything they can to make her stay. They'll put so much pressure on her. until she's metaphorically pinned to the. ground and paralyzed by the crush. Anna. is responsible for protecting her. children, but tragically means something. different to her than to us. It's likely. Anna believes it is her fault for not. being joyfully available and that at. least with the Duggar Empire's help, she. can clothe and feed her children. And. even when Joshua Duggar comes out, he. will not be able to have unsupervised. visits with any minor children,

including his own. We don't know if. that's why she's staying or if she. genuinely just still loves Joshua Duggar. after. >> I mean, when he comes out, none of them. will be minors. >> No, they will. So, she gave birth to. Madison during the trial. Yeah. Yeah. Oh. Oh. How long he get gets? 13 years. 12. >> 12. Oh, that's right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 12 and a half. >> Wow. That is actually crazy. >> Yeah. And then um it happens again. March 18th, 2026,

Joseph Duggar is arrested and everybody. loses their mind. Like I think you know. in 2015 when this was happening with. Joshua Duggar and then later in 2021 I. think most of this news it did become. mainstream news but it really stayed. within this Duggar universe of people. who religiously followed the Duggars. And I don't mean that pun intended but. with this 2026 arrest people are. starting to feel like okay there is like. something very nefarious happening maybe. not even just in this family but in the. IBLP like people need to look into. everything. The charges stem from events.

that allegedly happened in 2020. It is. alleged that in 2020 during a family. vacation in Panama City Beach, Florida, Joseph allegedly repeatedly suggests. that this 9-year-old girl sit on his. lap. >> Who's this girl? >> We don't know. Some people have made. guesses. I would not. Okay. >> Yeah. >> He had her sit next to him on the couch, covered her with a blanket, and rubbed. her thighs and grazed her private parts. She finally tells her dad about it as a.

14-year-old girl. So, in 2026, she's. like, "Dad, this is what happened to. me." Her father confronts Joseph and he. confesses allegedly to the dad. [music]. And this is when the dad calls the. police. The police are like, "Call. Joseph again and have him admit it while. we're listening." Allegedly, he. acknowledges his actions once more. The. next day, he is arrested. This comes as. a huge shock to most people because. Joseph has always been known as the. quieter, nicer brother. He was. relatively low-key up until all of this. He's also publicly condemned his older.

brother Joshua for his actions on the. family website. You know, Joseph's page. just reads, "I recently finished my real. estate broker's license and I've enjoyed. getting to work in the real estate. industry. We've also been building. houses to sell. I love getting to work. outside with my hands." So, people are. like, "What is happening?" Like, and I. think it's so reminiscent of the crimes. that Joshua Duggar committed against his. own sisters that people are starting to. wonder what's going on. Does everybody. just know that this is a thing that's. happening? And then Jim Bob's previous. remarks about how this is like a lot of.

families go through this. >> So, a lot of people online are. speculating if Joseph's wife, Kendra, knew what was going on. And if she did, why didn't she turn him in? And a lot of. people who have been following the. Duggar universe. I guess they have been. pinpointing when Kendra had stopped. posting online on Instagram, she took a. break. And people are wondering if maybe. she took a break around that time in. 2020, 2021 because of everything that. was going on in her private life. Like. maybe she found out about it then, but. if she found out about it then, why. didn't she go to the police? Is it the.

same thing that Jim Bob and Michelle. Duggar have been doing where they don't. go to the police for crimes against. children? >> Mhm. >> And alarmingly, they have four children. together. And then 2 days after Joseph. Duggar's arrest, Kendra Duggar is. arrested. And people are like, "Okay, that means she knew about it, right? >> What is going on?". >> She's actually arrested for a completely. different charge. Four counts of child. endangerment and false imprisonment. Initially, there was some relief that. she was not arrested for similar crimes. as Joseph Duggar or for participating or. co-conspiring to like let him get away.

with it. But it's bad. Locks were found. on the outside of the children's. bedrooms doors. That is the. >> Jim Bob did, right? >> Yes. >> On TLC on the TV show. >> Well, not on the TV show, but he did. that to. >> prevent Josh from. >> Yes. So she had that and that leads a. lot of questions and people. >> why exactly. >> cuz it's not safe and it's illegal. actually that's why she's arrested.

because in the event of a fire I mean. you can't lock your kids in a room. >> right is that the only thing they found. >> so far well so far sounds presumptuous. like like I'm insinuating she's. committed other crimes just yes. >> but how did that even come about because. >> they searched his house. >> Oh, and then they found locks. >> Yes. >> So, she got arrested for that. >> Both of them have been released from. custody. Both of them are not allowed. around their children. Joseph's next.

court date is April 20th. Kendra's is. April 29th. And a little bit about. Kendra before we get into the jail house. calls. Okay. Kendra is the daughter of a. pastor. She's one out of nine children. her dad in 2014 distributed pamphlets. claiming that there are no such things. as homosexuals. And when people are like, "Why the hell. did you do that?" He said that it was. merely him trying to spread love. I. don't know what his definition of love. is. And also during Kendra and Joseph's. wedding, Kendra's dad just keeps telling. Kendra that she reminds him so much of.

his wife, aka Kendra's mom. And it was. just like so repeatedly not the sweet. like, "Oh, you have your mother's eyes,". but like why do he keeps saying that? It. was just weird. They have four children. together that Kendra is not allowed to. see right now. And then all of this is. just blowing up in March of 2026. And then it gets crazier because emails. and jail calls are released. In emails. between Joseph and his family members, Anna Duggar, Joshua Duggar's wife, makes. an appearance. She lets Joseph know that. they're all praying for him and that she. deposited money into his commissary.

account. And then, quote, "Just. remember, don't talk about anything. legal unless you're with an attorney. Everything said in these messages, phone. calls, and video chats are recorded and. turned over to prosecutors. Joshua's. experience at Washington County Jail was. fairly safe. Anna talks about Kendra. writing an email to Joseph. She loves. you so much and she was strong during. our call, except when she mentioned it. would be a month before she could see. the kids. My heart aches for all of you. I believe she will prevail in the end. It may just take some time. Kendra is an.

extraordinary woman. God's grace shines. through her. She is truly a treasure. praying for you. Love you. Anna, >> is Anna the only one? >> No, a lot of other people are writing. emails. >> like family member. >> Kendra writing emails. >> That is crazy because your husband. committed these crimes and here's Joseph. who's potentially, you know, like how. how could you? >> Yeah. I think it's the terrifying thing. is it's become so normalized in certain.

communities that doing this. >> Okay. For Joshua, it was normalized of. natural curiosity of a young boy. I. don't know what logic they're using for. Joseph. >> Mhm. >> But this is truly just another way that. certain communities, and I'm not saying. all fundamentalist Christians or. Christians or anyone with faith-based. religion. I'm just saying like there are. certain groups of people that will use. religious text and genuinely good.

faith-based. findings to just victimize women and. children and that's it. Like I Oh, and. then in another email, Anna Duggar. writes to Joseph, "I'm praising God that. we started getting closer to you guys. within the last year and a half. He knew. that Kendra was going to need help. We. will and are helping her.". >> What? >> Yeah. Jim Bob is emailing Joseph. Joseph, I'm so sorry for what you're. going through. Mom and I love you very. much. Looks like you have a long road. ahead of you, but God will get you.

through. You have made some terrible. decisions, but God has already forgiven. you if you have asked him. You are just. going to have to accept this situation. at this point, and it's also fine to. pray that God would have mercy on you, but you're probably going to face major. consequences for several years to come. And he also insinuates that he should. make lemonade out of lemons. Then there. are phone calls between Joseph and. Kendra Duggar where Kendra tells him. that she has an attorney for her and you. know he also has an attorney. He. complains that he's been in solitary.

confinement. He's not really sleeping. well through the night but it's good to. hear Kendra's voice. >> So you're doing okay? >> I'm I'm trying to keep my spirits up and. I feel like reading the Bible is uh. really been helpful to calm and not. think about all the situations. >> It's been uplifting. I will say. listening to these phone calls is so. odd. It's just odd. >> Is it like just feels illegal to hear. that? >> No, it's just the way they talk. Okay, so first of all, I can't imagine anyone.

talking to their spouse who has been. charged with with a crime like that in. the way that Kendra is talking to. Joseph. And it feels so distant and formal. >> You think that's how they usually talk? >> I think so. He's giving her He is giving. her religious advice [snorts] and she's. like, "Praise the Lord." And I'm like, "What the is happening everywhere?". >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. What is he saying? Like. >> he's like how he's reading Psalms and. it's really getting him through. They.

have like a light moment where they talk. about how Kendra mentions multiple times. that she can't eat. She can't stomach. anything. Everyone is worried about her. because she can't eat and she needs. energy, but like she just can't eat and. she's frail and she's weak, right? And Joseph Duggar didn't give a He. does not give a flying fork about Kendra. Duggar. I'm just going to say that right. now. And I hope Kendra is listening to. people that are telling her that, too, because he almost sounds annoyed that. she keeps mentioning this. He's like,

"Well, you got to eat." I was reading. Psalms. When I got home, a little bit of food, the most I've been able to eat probably. all week. And I got a little bit of. strength back where I was able to walk. and not like for those that. >> said, "Yeah, >> yeah.". >> Wow. >> And she just keeps bringing it up. Bring. it up. Bring it up. And he's just like, "Yeah, I'm having a hard time eating, too.". >> And then they joke about how they're. both going to lose weight and they're.

like, "Haha." Kendra says that she's. being taken care of by Joseph's family. End quote. >> I just sometimes start crying cuz I know. God's been so good. I've just been. writing down some of the things that I'm. thankful for that, >> you know, we've gotten to do. Like I was. thinking about our vacation we got to do. as a family and our trip before. And so. >> yeah, >> I just trying to write down. >> all of that today, too. >> He keeps preaching to her about how to. listen to God, let God's voice take over. and read the book of Psalm.

Psalms. Yeah. And she says that um she's just. like Yeah. Yeah. And uh. >> there is this point that people have a. huge a lot of people online have brought. it up, but she says that she's working. through the list that he gave her on his. iPad and she's trying to coordinate how. to get his phone out of custody because. when you get booked into jail, they take. it into custody so that she can go. through his phone. So, a lot of people. are concerned that she's trying to.

delete evidence. further jail. conversations talk about how she's. getting passwords, I'm assuming, to like. banking and business stuff, but they. could be the same thing. They could be. different things. We don't know. But a. lot of people, I think just from the. recollection of what happened with. Joshua, there's concern that something. is happening there. Yeah. But nothing. nothing is as blasphemous as Joshua. Duggar's statement through his attorney. when Joseph Duggar is arrested. The. attorney says that Josh said that the. allegations against Joseph have deeply.

saddened him and that Joshua understands. the stigma of being accused. He lives. with the painful reality of how false. accusations can destroy a life. He. understands how the targeting of a. person for publicity can twist the truth. into sensationalized fiction. Calm down. You are not that famous. You are not. targeted. And that is currently where we. are with the Duggars. We're waiting for. their court dates later in this month. We're just going to see where we go from. there. >> It could be really, really bad, right?

>> Yeah. Yeah. >> I I find it a little shocking that. Kendra. is just like arrested. Yes, it is very. bad that you are locking. But I feel. like if Kendra could have been like, "Oh, no, Joseph put the lock on or. something." I don't know. What What do. you think it made them charge her that. quickly? Do you feel like there's more. things. No, I think. >> or you think that's it? There's lock on. the door. >> Yeah, I think you would charge both. parents immediately cuz it's just like.

that illegal, >> right? Okay. >> You know, I mean I think maybe cuz. >> that is true. Why Why would they do. something like that? So abnormal. >> because I mean my sister even had to. watch out for the locks in the door when. the kids were young because they would. lock themselves in a room. So to have a. lock outside the room. >> is just. >> Okay. Right. What's going like I guess. it's like something's going on in this. house. >> Yeah. And it's not safe. Like you cannot.

be alone. Like Kendra cannot be alone. with her kids anymore. I don't even. think she can see her kids right now. until April 29th. I think there will be. another judgment. But. >> it Yeah. Something really dark is going. on. And I imagine that it was not cuz. you know like maybe you could argue. there's like a lock that locks from both. sides. I'm imagining it was like very. clear as day for the officers what that. law was. >> Who else wrote letters or or emailed. Joseph and Kendra in the family? Do you. know? >> It was mainly them. A lot of the others. have spoken out. I mean, interestingly. enough, Jill said that she learned about.

Joseph's arrest through the media. She. did not know from her parents. >> And so, a lot of siblings have spoken. out publicly that they are condemning. what Joseph has done. >> Oh. Or some of them have given slightly. more PR friendly remarks of like you. know victims my heart breaks. >> can't believe it but like not definitive. like oh my god that guy my brother. you know. >> so Anna is supporting.

>> yeah Jim Bob Michelle and Kendra is very. much supporting her husband in this. >> interesting. >> I just. >> Yeah yeah yeah. >> a lot of people are having a hard I'm. swallowing all of this and I think there. will probably be more that comes out as. time passes. But what are your thoughts. on this case? I feel like nobody I feel. that the Duggar family has their arrest. recently has caused a lot more eyes into. even the past of all the Duggar family.

members. And I think it's just there's. such a high barrier of entry to get to. know the family's entire digital. footprint and lore because there's just. so much information out there and all of. that information. I mean, I was even. scared to research this case because. with a case like this, of course, you're. going to have opinions from people who. grew up parasoially with the family or. people who have grown up in similar. conditions. And it's just a lot of even. ideological. viewpoints that you have to sift through.

to get to the root of like who these. people even are. >> And it it was just like a tremendous. amount of content out there. But one. netzen comments is 19 kids in counting. the name of the show or the sun's rap. sheets. So with that being said, that is where I. leave you with part four. Let me know in. the comments what are your thoughts. Stay safe and I will see you in the next. one.