16-Yr-Old Murders 98-Yr-Old Woman To SA Her Corpse For 2 Hours While Recording

[Music]. bada beinging badao there's a Reddit. page called change my view you go on. there and you state an opinion that you. firmly believe in and you ask the world. hey come and change my view on this. people will start commenting they're. going to try to convince you why your. perspective is not the best sometimes it. leads to healthy discussions other times. it leads to insults where your mom is. going to be called into the equation a. few interesting things to note is most. people I would say on this forum do not.

change their minds they do not change. their view apparently there's even a few. ways that you can tell if someone might. be more or less open-minded to change. their minds so why do they post in. Change My Views like they just want to. argument they just want to be validated. why are they doing that I think they. want to be. validated like they want people to say. oh you don't need to change your view. yes I do think like a strong group of. people want to see the other side but I. think most of the arguments you already. know the other side but you've just.

picked a side got it so it's very it's a. passionate Forum that you can browse on. on Reddit there's a few things that you. can tell if someone is going to change. their mind or not so for example when. the original poster uses the word we. instead of I when discussing an opinion. which is obviously very separate from. gender expression but when they say. things like well we believe well we must. not we should believe in this rather. than well I thought I believe.

my perception of things so referring to. them as we plus a larger group of people. again separate from gender expression. they're less likely to change their. minds because they almost feel. responsible for that whole large group's. opinion they feel like the. representative of that group right and. if they waver and change their minds. what does that mean for the rest of the. group yeah yeah yeah there's also. stubborn language that you can detect. this is also in real life if you are. talking to someone and they use words.

like will anybody anyone I'm certain. certainly or there's nothing don't even. engage they're not going to change their. minds on this forum there's a lot of. debates on politics the economy whether. or not Epstein actually died in prison I. mean pretty much anything that you can. think of is on this Reddit Forum. including debates on the show To Catch a. Predator have you seen the show before. yeah I feel like we talked about it. briefly yes so this show was around. around for a few years back in the early.

2000s and the fact that it's still. relevant in pop culture is fascinating. but it was a show where a host Chris. Hansen he would have all of these adult. decoys they're adults but they pose as. not adults on the internet they pose as. 13-year-olds they start messaging. strangers they start messaging. 50-year-old men on the internet they say. hey come meet me at this house this safe. house is then wired up for audio and. video everything is recorded they step. into the house they sit down in the.

kitchen thinking that they're going to. engage in illegal activities but instead. Chris Hansen pops out and is like hi I'd. like to ask you a few questions that is. crazy then when they walk out the front. door the police come in they're waiting. outside they arrest the people yeah I. mean wow dozens of threads have popped. up over the years on Reddit and it's a. debate on whether that show is morally. corrupt or not so one would read change. my view To Catch a Predator is a morally.

corrupt show many of these people's. arguments include let me be clear I. don't think that the people on the show. should go unpunished I think that they. should but also the show just teaches. predators to be more cautious with their. crimes which would put actual victims at. risks not the decoys many activists have. questioned whether or not the show. creates a harmful narrative because most. predators in real life are not strangers. you meet on the internet they're going. to be people that the children trust. they also argue that the show is almost. baiting the Predators to commit a crime.

I mean they're lying misdirecting. coercing the Predators into falling for. this trap another small point of. contention being that the family members. of the Predators which obviously this. would happen even if the Predator is. just charged in the court system but now. they get blasted on TV everybody knows. what happened the family members who. likely did nothing wrong they become. these massive victims themselves but. other nuzens argue change my view To. Catch a Predator is not morally wrong. there should be more shows like it.

the main argument being the people on. the show turn up to that house with the. intention of awarding a child all the. show does is show them arrive give an. interview and then being arrested if. those three events happened why can't. they be broadcasted we can video record. anyone on the public Street why can't we. do this with any other crime others with. the same Viewpoint argue the decoys used. on the show were advertising themselves. as miners on hookup chat rooms and. classified ads The Men Who were charged. during the sting deserve exactly what.

they got they know what they were going. into they also argued that public. humiliation and the reputation that. follows them after the show airs should. be expected it's also safer for. communities because it's so easy to find. out oh my God isn't that the guy from To. Catch a Predator they argue I cannot. feel sorry for somebody who is ready and. willing to do God knows what with a. child I mean Society needs to know who. these creeps are I have no sympathy. whatsoever they point to nen experiences. online of knowing someone who ended up. on the show one comment.

my friend dated someone who ended up. just Vanishing disappearing and then we. eventually found out that he had been. arrested for trying to sleep with an. underage girl and having ropes and guns. in his trunk it wasn't until a few weeks. later that we learned he was on the show. and it just kept unraveling he had come. to get drinks for one of my birthdays. and to be honest he seemed completely. normal there was nothing that stood out. to me as creepy or off and my friend was. a wreck afterwards though she's a smart. girl too and she didn't expect expect.

anything like that I feel so bad for her. she was blindsided but others point to. other nzen stories that read I was. roommates with a person on the show for. a bit his name was Dave basically he. went to California visiting a friend and. the friend tells him hey I got to make a. detour to drop in on this girl that I've. been chatting with online he never. mentions her age and also it's not like. he could say no Dave is already in the. friend's car and the friend is driving. so immediately they get to the house he. regrets his decision when out comes. Chris Hansen and they only interview the.

friend since Dave just got to California. he has no idea who this person is he. never messaged the decoy but it really. sucked though because the episodes are. still available online they don't blur. his face and actually the whole episode. that he's in has his face on the. thumbnail what yeah wow there are. debates about whether the show is. technically entament no side note. entrapment typically involves law. enforcement coercing you to commit a. crime but I guess in this case since NBC. is working with law enforcement it could.

count that's a huge point of contention. as well as what if one of these people. are innocent in some way they argue that. public humiliation is handed out before. a trial and theoretically if NBC makes. more money by catching Predators on. camera would they be incentivized to. make one seem like a predator even if. they're not because they've invested. time and resources and now they need an. Roi a return on investment so these seem. to be the main points of contentions. that show up but but aside from morality.

there are other issues with the show. like the fact that the interviews that. are conducted on the show are not. probably admissible in court because the. Predators are not read their rights. debates aside the show To Catch a. Predator ends after 3 years the show. ends for multiple reasons one being. someone dies on camera a prosecutor. someone who goes after criminals like. the Predators his name is Bill Conrad. he's the next one to be caught on To. Catch a Predator he's actually quite. good at his job as a prosecutor but also.

he's messaging 13-year-old boys or who. he thinks are 13-year-old boys on the. side after work asking yes asking insane. questions about body parts what they try. to lure him to a safe house to arrest. him but Bill the prosecutor ends up. flaking on them they Date Line the host. police officers SWAT teams decide that. they're just going to Ambush Bill inside. of his house they Ambush him inside his. house which side note a lot of people. question why did they Ambush him inside.

his house why didn't they wait until he. was at work which is a safer place to. Ambush him but that's where the moral. argument is To Catch a Predator cannot. film inside the his workplace they can. film probably inside his. house others felt like the local police. department working with dat line they'd. been in hot water for not being able to. do their jobs for a while so they come. in guns of Blazing SWAT team and. everything regardless hindsight is 2020. whether it's the police presence the. SWAT team or the fact that the TV. cameras are sh shoved in his face while.

the police are forcing entry into his. home he ends up self- exiting wow. gunshot wound to the head which was all. caught on camera obviously not aired but. caught on camera according to the show's. host Chris Hansen he quote had CSA. videos on his computer he tried to get. them off the hard drives and he couldn't. and the police were knocking on his door. he knew he would face 10 years in prison. for each image but other sources state. that the police ran forensics they found. no illegal videos on his computer but he. was talking to whom he believed was a.

13-year-old boy which was an adult. Bill's sister ultimately files a. wrongful death suit against NBC for over. $100 million and they settle for an. undisclosed amount so with that the show. officially ends but there's been this. new wave of influencers they're called. Predator Hunters I'm not kidding that's. what they call themselves they're live. streamers that basically do the same. exact thing of the show To Catch a. Predator but in real life in real time. they lure people online with the promise.

of a great illegal time with a minor. they show up to the designated meeting. spot typically a motel or a parking lot. and the confrontation is live streamed. that is crazy like also very very. dangerous and so dangerous some netizens. think it's bad because most. jurisdictions might not take it. seriously not that it's not serious but. there's so many legal implications on. the influencer to the DA who is trying. to take the case after the influencer. catches a predator the evidence could.

easily be thrown out by the judge. considering how it's gathered I mean. others argue yeah well the justice. system doesn't do much to Predators. anyway so at least their faces are out. there many netizens believe it to be. Peak vigilante. justice which is kind of what starts. unraveling in Wadsworth Ohio a. 50-year-old man calls the police to. report his car stolen in fact he says it. was carjacked that he was just driving. in a parking lot one day when this. person this man comes up to him and is.

like hey I need a ride to the hospital. I'm not feeling well and then all of a. sudden he just opens the driver's seat. door slams him out of it gets into the. driver's side and steals his car jacks. his car the police ask him what parking. lot were you in they run the security. cameras that doesn't make sense because. your car was not jacked by a random. stranger your car was jacked by somebody. that was in the passenger seat so. explain that you were with the person. that jacked your car how do you say that. you don't know who this person is if. they're already in your car he changes.

his whole story he says you know what I. was actually very embarrassed I'm a. 50-year-old man and I work at the local. church I met this guy on grinder we were. going to get freaky in my car but then. he snaps out of nowhere and just forces. me out of the car and steals my car I. felt very embarrassed to tell you guys. the truth but that is what happened the. police are able to find CCTV footage. that likely places a 17-year-old boy at. the scene of the car jacking this man is. 50 this boy is 17 they bring him in. 17-year-old Gavin his name is Gavin.

Ramsay he looks very nervous when he. comes into the interrogation room the. officer questioning him later reports I. observed that one of Gavin's hands was. bleeding and that he had marks on both. of his hands he clenched his fingers to. make a fist he was flexing his forearms. and neck muscles I could see his pulse. on his neck he seems nervous and. agitated he's sitting there with his mom. and there's two police officers one male. officer that's sitting next to him and. one female officer that's sitting across. from him that's asking all the questions.

and his mom is encouraging him to come. clean about everything I always with. your kids what happens in the dark comes. out in the light that's the way it works. you messed up you get caught you make. bad choices you're going to pay for. it so if there's something else let's. get it all out on the table so that we. know what we're dealing with the officer. looks at him have you ever used an app. called grinder no how you feel about gay. people I'm not gay oh that's okay but.

they don't bother you no nobody bothers. me later Gavin asks his mom to leave the. room so he can speak comfortably with. the female detective alone and he. explains the car Dagon it okay it was me. I'm going to be honest about it but the. way that he explained it that guy that's. not right that grinder thing yeah I. happen on. it and this guy was like the first that. time of this happened and I told him. like I was 17 and everything and I.

wasn't planning on doing anything with. him it's not my style I was just like. he's a 40-year-old man trying to get. with a 17-year-old so I was just going. to rob him like it's still messed up but. against what he's doing I don't really. think it is he's saying that he went on. grinder met a middle-aged man told him. his real age 17 years old the. middle-aged man doesn't care he still. wants to meet up so to teach him a. lesson he decided I'm going to meet up.

with him and Rob the guy I'm going to. carjack him he argues it's technically. not the worst plan because what kind of. middle-aged 50-year-old something man. even willingly meets up with a. 17-year-old to do intimate things with. to begin with if anyone deserves to be. robbed it's going to be him right I mean. I guess I could kind of see the point. right Gavin explains that he got into. the passenger seat of the old man's car. they Park the old man asks if he wants. to move the party to the back seat they. both open the car doors the old man gets. out the driver's side but instead of.

getting out the passenger side Gavin. slams the door shut locks the doors. leaving the old man locked out of his. own car jumps into the driver's seat and. just starts driving around the parking. lot at first he just wanted to mess with. him so he would drive the old man would. run up to the driver's side window and. then he'd be like you and then keep. driving some more and then the old man. would run up to the driver's side window. again and again and eventually the old. man runs off to call the cops Gavin. describes that he drove the car to a. nearby parking lot and abandoned it he. just went home and block the guy on.

grinder that's it really he wasn't. stealing the car he just wanted to teach. him a listen the officer asks him you. told him your age yeah I told him I was. 17 are you gay no I'm that's not it like. I didn't have any plans at doing the it. was just R being back gra a bir and try. and get with a child basically at what. point in time did you tell him how would. do work. over text is when I told him and that's.

why I decided I was going to do that is. it text on your app yeah okay and you. can't leave you can't pull that back out. no that's deleted I think I blocked the. guy too so that like deletes him. completely like out of I can't search. him up or anything why were you on that. app really just for that reason to find. guys that are that low but people I. guess that want to get with it's mhm.

like it's karma really like if you're. going to do that then I'm going to rob. you you told him you're. s what what was his response to that he. like okay he was down to meet so that's. when I decided I was just going to take. his money and leave did he touch you at. all no did he ask you for any pictures. he did but I didn't find Mone name he. didn't send him any but he asked you for.

what did he ask you pictures of my body. did he ask you for pictures of your. penis yeah the officer says okay well. I'm sure your mom's standing out there. freaking out yeah she probably thinks. I'm confessing the murder she's been in. here so long he laughs okay well how do. you want to tell your mom do you want me. to tell her do you want to tell her I. mean she's going to have to know so when. Gavin's mom comes back into the room the. police fill her on and everything and. she's just scolding her like why are you. even on an app like this and Gavin's.

just shrugging I don't know Mom I don't. know why I do anything that I do that. sounds all Vilan crazy to me that's what. that sounds like the officer is staring. at Gavin and his mom just analyzing them. throughout this entire bizarre. interaction of I mean I'm sure they. typically don't get cases like this and. she explains I'm sure you guys already. know about all the going on in the. neighborhood about the elderly woman. that was found murdered you know there. are speculations that her corpse was. used for Necro philic ax you know she.

was stuffed into the closet Gavin's mom. responds oh my God that was horrifying. they actually live five houses down from. this 98-year-old woman that was recently. murdered so now they're just. chitchatting about local crime oh my God. that was horrifying that was horrifying. MH it is horrifying the 90 8-year-old. was murdered and and essayed her corpse. was essayed and stuffed into her own. closet it five houses down from Gavin.

and his mom wow so now they're just. chitchatting and the police ask you know. you notice any strange vehicles or. anything no but the day it all unfolded. we didn't even know what was going on. and um we have we have two dogs I have a. very small one and she was in the. kitchen with me and she just kept. looking at the back door and growling. and she never does that I got like. Goosebumps and so I just thought that's. so unlike her and I kept looking out and. you know the neighbor the neighbor girl. has like a like a they built a tree.

house on the ground and I kept thinking. God what if somebody's in there it just. freaked me out because it's all wooden. down there and it's all woods but that. was the only thing that was off yeah was. that did you know the 98-year-old woman. at all no I was been just to see her out. like on a. porch I just that actually makes one to. cry like how do you get to be 98 years. old nobody lives to be 98 it's so rare. and someone else thought that that was. okay like how did that I don't know like. what has your life been like that Gavin.

is fidgeting with a tissue while his mom. goes on and on about the 98-year-old. woman and the crazy thing is like I have. stranger danger issues now unfortunately. for Gavin's mother it's not stranger. danger that she should be worried about. because whoever did this to Margaret is. a lot closer than she thinks and he. might have something to do with the. 98-year-old woman's murder but also the. local car jackings. [Music].

we would like to thank today's sponsors. who have made it possible for rotten. mango to support the joyful Heart. Foundation whose mission is to transform. society's response to sa domestic. violence and CA and support survivors. healings to end this violence Forever.

This episode's Partnerships have made it. possible to support Ron Mango's growing. team and we'd also like to thank you. guys for your continued support as we. work on our mission to be worthy. Advocates as always full show notes are. available at Rotten mangle podcast.com a. few big disclaimers for today's case. this case is quite graphic compared to. some of the more recent cases we've been. covering it involves graphic. descriptions and mentions of essay. towards some of the most vulnerable. populations so please watch this with. your own discretion and if it's ever too. much take a break go outside and I'll.

see you in the next one necrofilia is. rare they say we hope it's hard to say. exactly how rare necrofilia is because. most people who have necrofilia. Tendencies do not come forward with them. but perhaps it's common enough that some. experts have created 10 different. classifications of necrophiles class one. necro that do not seek corpses but. they're just aroused by the fantasy of. having intimate relations with one they. might engage in consensual adult.

activities where one partner pretends to. be dead class two they will only commit. necrophilia because of an emotional. attachment for example in 2013 a wife. was found sleeping next to her husband's. decaying corpse for a year after he. passed because she just can't let go of. him then the classifications. progressively get more severe from there. with class n being homicidal necrophiles. individuals who commit murder to obtain. a corpse for seual purposes then you.

have class 10 individuals who are only. attracted to corpses and will. continuously kill to obtain corpses and. cannot perform sexually without a corpse. one self-identifying necrophiliac goes. on to Reddit to try and explain why. they're necrophiliac and they write the. reason why I'm interested in dead bodies. is because of their passivity you know. and maybe vulnerability for some reason. the way they stay there alone makes me. think that they're really lonely and I. should take care of them. and they can't reject me or mock me it's.

like a blank canvas and you can project. all your feelings onto them to which. someone asked why would you not be able. to just use an intimate doll then. because they don't have feelings they. can't reject you if a real human is too. much for you then why not a doll with a. corpse the part of Fascination comes. from the concept of death itself someone. had a life and now it's ended and this. physical shell is the only proof of that. and I want to use the physical shell. another nzen asks fresh corpse or old. corpse. fresh one those signs of death are.

appreciated I also had fantasies about. killing specifically to get the corpse. but I'm not proud of those fantasies now. according to one small study the most. common occupations for necro are. Hospital orderly morg attendance Funeral. Home assistants and Cemetery employees. now to be clear that does not mean that. most or even a big group of those. workers are necrs they're just people. doing a job but the small population of. necro obviously they're going to. gravitate towards these jobs still. uncommon but in Wadsworth Ohio when a.

17-year-old boy like a junior in high. school applies to work at the local. funeral home around the same time that a. 98-year-old woman Margaret Douglas is. found stuffed into her closet partially. Ned with suspicions that necro acts had. taken place after her death after her. murder you really have to wonder are. these connected you are three times more. likely to become a billionaire than get. murdered at 98 years old it's just not.

something that typically happens but. then why is 98-year-old Margaret missing. before they find her murdered she's. considered missing police have to. explore the idea that she wandered. somewhere in a confused State and if so. is she in danger there's this massive. Manhunt for 98-year-old Margaret Douglas. that's what the Wadsworth police have to. figure it out and fast because people in. the community are starting to get antsy. they went through and checked all the. neighbors backyards The Sheds nothing. detectives are going door too and every.

single family on the street neighbors of. 98-year-old Margaret are now potential. suspects the first door swings open it's. a couple the Scots we knew Margaret but. we weren't really close with her she's. definitely with it but every time we. spoke with her she would tell us that. she was a different age but she was. strong enough to take her own trash out. and she would grab her mail and paper. did you see any strange cars parked. outside no we didn't sorry the next. neighbor Eric I mean the last few days I. did think it was strange her porch light. would normally be on but it's been off.

the past few days which I thought was. weird but I didn't see anything else the. next neighbor I did see something well. I'm not sure maybe it's nothing what is. it well sometimes I saw the Spectrum. trucks in the area but that's it okay. well thanks for your time the next. neighbor a Burly looking man like a. muscular dude steps out into the porch. his arms are crossed his energy is very. hostile the police feel like he's not. going to be helpful but they start. asking him questions and he oddly gets a.

little too chatty very chatty we've. lived here for like 18 years and I'm. telling you recently less people are. buying the homes or the ones that are. buying the homes are just converting the. homes into these rentals and look at. that street down there that one that's a. rental that's a rental I barely know my. neighbors now when we first moved in 18. years ago I knew every single one of my. neighbors and now I don't know any. single and then the mailman it was the. same mailman for the past like years I. think like 15 years and then suddenly. all of a sudden it's a new mailman for. the past 2 months and now we got this. guy and I don't know who this guy is. wait are these all like police taped. they're all in the incident reports. they're not taped but all in the reports.

every single neighbor yeah okay every. single one of them is documented and the. police are even saying yeah we thought. this guy was not going to be helpful cuz. his body language was closed off arms. are crossed he steps out into the porch. and then he becomes quote very chatty. very chatty too helpful but ultimately. nothing comes out of it right next. neighbor she doesn't really have too. many friends she doesn't really attend. church or join any of the other. communities but I never saw her as. confused she was very sharp even at her.

old age 98 I don't think that she would. have wandered anywhere unless she. recently woke up and became confused but. I don't know if that happens like that. the next neighbor the police talk to. ends up coming to them a woman is. waiting at the lobby of the police. station she can't even sit still she. seems very nervous I walk my dog in that. area um my mother who is also around. that age very elderly she lives nearby. so this whole case hits closer to home. for me and I just keep thinking about. Margaret out at night freezing in the. cold anyway I thought I would just drive.

around hoping to find her myself but I. saw these two guys sitting in the area. like loitering do you remember what they. look like in their 50s I don't really. remember but I know that one of them. looked a lot younger than the other one. I remember that they said it was Foul. Play that Margaret is a nice person that. didn't deserve that and I was like where. are they getting this information look I. watch a lot of um cop shows and I'm kind. of into missing persons cases and stuff. I thought they were concerning they were. suspicious ious the police take her.

account and continue with the. investigation but a day after Margaret. is reported missing it's clear that she. did not wander anywhere Howard her. nephew Margaret's nephew is searching. Margaret's entire house for the second. time and there's a few things that. Margaret would never leave the house. with even in a state of confusion she. always brings her favorite coat in the. colder months and all year round she. wears her favorite shoes her favorite. sneakers so the first time they searched. the house Howard's wife Cindy found. Margaret's faite coat this is in April. in Ohio so it's still pretty cold.

outside but maybe she was so confused. that she didn't take the coat Howard. opens up that little closet again and. it's messier than usual it looks like. someone took all the clothes that were. hanging and just pulled them down and. then let them sit on the ground let them. fall to the floor he starts rumaging. around on the floor and he's like what. is that he grabs it it's cold it's a. vacuum handle it's very messy in there. he's digging and he comes across. Margaret's favorite shoe then he finds. the other shoe her favorite shoes are in. here and both of them are still attached. to Margaret she is dead she has been.

strangled stuffed into this tiny closet. with her head on the ground and the rest. of her body upwards cuz it's a very. small closet her underwear is completely. torn ripped off of her body her bra is. pushed up exposing her chest and her. night gown is all the way open so it's. not even just murder I mean there seems. to be a huge sexual element here whoever. killed Margaret likely did it for. reasons the odest piece of this evidence. that they gather once they find.

Margaret's body is the main clue a jar. of blackberry jam that's left in the. living room and it looks used but not. for intended purposes not for toast the. blackberry jam will have been used to. commit acts of necrofilia testing would. reveal male DNA inside the blackberry. jam bottle because it was used as. lubricant the friend that calls to alert. Margaret's family that Margaret is. missing. he had stopped by to check up on her and.

says that she didn't answer the door. this guy's name is David David had grown. up near Margaret with Margaret and her. late husband and he actually morphed. into a friend and a caretaker than just. a fellow resident recently he moved away. and now that Margaret is found murdered. he's not answering the police's phone. calls they can't get in contact with. David which is alarming because maybe he. did something to her so as authorities. are going in and out of the house to. look for any signs of Foul Play they. just keep seeing this guy lurking around.

hands in his pockets watching them I'm. sorry can we help you well I used to. live in this neighborhood and I just. wanted to see what was going on I guess. also I'm concerned I used to know. Margaret and you know I would visit a. lot and sometimes help her around the. house and I bet I bet all my. fingerprints are all over in that house. I'm sorry what was your name again. David this is the guy that they're. looking for just lingering around the. crime scene what they bring him into the. police station and after a pretty. lengthy interrogation as well as a DNA.

test David is ruled out as a suspect it. appears that his care for Margaret was. miscommunicated the police realized no. this guy is actually just a friend of. Margaret's and he's trying to do his own. little investigation basically so it's. not David then what's the other motive I. mean what motive does anybody have to. kill a 98-year-old woman perhaps a will. she doesn't have kids but maybe she has. relatives that would financially benefit. from her death primarily a nephew Howard. the one that found her body and his wife.

Cindy are pretty close to her Howard and. Cindy but when authorities look into it. nobody has power of attorney over. Margaret she doesn't have a will. financially speaking nobody was going to. benefit from her death Cindy Margaret's. niece tells investigators Margaret. bothered no one that's why it's just so. horrible the detective is calmly. watching her as she breaks down I'm. sorry I'm just it's emotional because. she wouldn't even harm a flea then they. talked to Howard the nephew and he talks.

about finding Margaret's body and he. said it didn't register at first you. know the shoe he was looking for was. attached to Margaret he didn't even. connect the dots he says I couldn't pick. up the shoe and I'm thinking what's. holding the shoe so I took and I grabbed. another piece of clothing I threw it. back I I've never seen this before in my. life I touched it it was cold it felt. clammy it felt like Styrofoam to me so I. moved it and then I moved another piece. of clothing and that's when I felt to. part of her leg and it felt like the. same thing styrofoam cold clammy and I'm.

thinking why does she have Styrofoam in. here what is this then it hit me that's. basically when we left the house in a. hurry I've never seen I mean I'm sure. you guys deal with it all the time but. I've never I mean to me it didn't look. like flesher skin it it's pretty obvious. when you hear Howard and Cindy talk. about Margaret that they would never. hurt Margaret obviously they are still. ruled out by DNA but there is an. interesting clue left in the 911 call. when Howard reports missing he calls 911.

yes this is Howard Leisure my aunt lives. on uh Page Street okay and a friend of. ours stopped over there yesterday check. on her and she was nowhere to be found. we didn't know if you found anybody. wandering no we don't have any reports. of anybody wandering we can't find her. in the house anywhere he went in the. house and looked through the whole house. couldn't find her we don't know where. she's at she's 98 years old and she live. there by herself she lives there by. herself yes what what's her name. Margaret Douglas and she never lck your.

house the same detectives are working. another case a string of car jackings in. the area that's why they're bringing in. 17-year-old Gavin to tell them what. happened to the man whose car he jacked. after meeting up on grinder Gavin is. sitting there sandwiched between the. male cop and his mom and the female cop. is asking him the questions and the. female detective is still again saying. you know we've got a lot going on in the. neighborhood lately and probably more. than the general public is even aware of. more than one incident Gavin's mom is. nodding along I'm sure wow yes okay.

unfortunately we're trying to see if you. know they're all related right right. later the officers ask them what they. think should happen to Margaret's killer. since the case is all anyone is talking. about in the area right now and they. just live like five houses down what do. you think should happen to somebody that. does that that kills someone kills a. 98-year-old woman yeah I don't know I. think I for an eye is the best way to go. that's how I look at things that's what. on the same too is like what she.

thinks two things it could be is like a. grand nephew. like cuz my brother's friend his dad. works for sun County and he was saying. that like her entire family was like in. her will and they were all getting like. money and stuff so he was saying like. one of the grandkids or nephews or I. don't even know he's in the family but. they could have done that to get money. or just I'm junkie in Wurth which that.

would not surprise me the police will. later ask Gavin's mom when was the most. recent time that your son got in trouble. mom because Gavin's always in trouble. with the lot even at 16 years old he had. a felony he has not had any freedom at. all I mean he literally goes to work and. home probably 3 months because he makes. bad choices and we're just don't we. don't want that for our kids so he. literally has no. life and he had snuck out before I I've. just recently moved his bedroom.

downstairs close to mine with his. younger brother because you know they. tend to tattle so that I could keep you. know it's careful that I did it and it. still isn't doing enough cuz Morton. probably was down as sleep it's been a. few months since he's any freedom Gavin. admits that he does sneak out and rumage. through cars here and there but he never. really takes anything of value it's just. he goes inside the car and looks and the. police ask and you don't take anything. not even change or anything maybe like. 50 cents but I OB miss that seriously.

nothing so he say he breaks into. people's car to look yes not to steal. money no well that's even more scary. Gavin's mom is super upset she's rolling. her eyes turning to I mean what would. you do if someone did that to my car. you'd be upset you it's so upsetting and. scary I I understand that but it's. really their own fault for now yeah what. did he just say there's a massive global. company that most of us have likely. never heard of it's called celebrate.

they're a digital forensics company that. primarily works with law enforcement. from around the world it basically takes. all the data from a phone like the. things you thought you deleted and it. helps officers get an idea of what. you're doing it can even pull location. information from apps to try and get a. general idea of your movements as well. as pattern recognition you can type in a. keyword and it'll search the entire. phone going through search history. messages videos folders everything even. deleted data which gives the officers a. comprehensive look at all the times this.

phone has talked about insurance fraud. for example they can typically even pull. pin numbers and passwords or even the. pattern locks like you know how some. phones do the pattern locks they can. pull those which would be the perfect. thing to use in Gavin's case he told. authorities that he told the 50-year-old. man on grinder that he was under age the. 50-year-old man still wanted to see him. that's why he carjacked him but all. those messages are deleted because he. deleted the grinder app and he doesn't. remember which one of his fake emails he.

used to create his profile because he. has a thousand different emails for. YouTube for YouTube he says for creating. different YouTube accounts it would. greatly benefit Gavin if they can find. all that because at least they can. present this information to the judge. he's still likely going to get charged. with car jacking but still now they need. to get Gavin's mom's permission because. he's under age she's the parent she's. the one paying for the phone and Gavin's. mom tells authorities when she hands. over the phone you know it is what it is. whatever they find I pray to God there's. nothing too horrible in there it will be.

worse than horrible the day that. Margaret goes missing there's increased. police presence in the area they just. found Margaret's body like a day later. but nobody knows that she's been killed. or anything to the public there's just. more police that day Gavin's mom texts. him they're looking for someone he. responds well that's Wadsworth for you. then he immediately Googles Wadsworth. police reports Margaret Douglas Margaret. Douglas dead Margaret Douglas Wadsworth. Ohio body found in Wadsworth Ohio latest.

update on Wadsworth murder then delet. the search history that is crazy at the. time of the search again it's not public. information that she passed away or that. she was murdered she's 98 one would. assume that she was not murdered yeah. one quick search for passwords shows two. interesting ones the first being Gavin. had set up a password to an account and. the password is I like. kids so that's great then the next. password of Interest Gavin had this.

locked folder on his phone filled with. media files so videos pictures live. photos it's an iPhone and the folder. name is. dark and the password to that is murder. inside the folder a bunch of media files. the first video is of Margaret asleep in. her living room and they're recording. from inside the house it's not through. the window she's laying on the couch. she's clearly alive she briefly moves. her hand to scratch her face did you see. the this one there is um it's in the.

case files that I received from the. police department but the obviously the. other ones are not okay then there's a. live photo of Margaret lying down on her. side her right eye is partially open her. mouth is open and there is blood on her. tongue and lips she is not moving in the. second long life photo on her neck. there's a gloved hand holding onto her. throat she is dead then another live. photo this time of Margaret laying on. her back she has been posed in a seual.

manner and the description reads in the. picture Margaret's night gown is open. and her bra is pushed up to her neck the. back of a clear plastic gloved left hand. is seen pushing against the left side of. her breast her mouth is open and shows. fresh injuries to her face so someone is. touching her chest and posing. her the next photo appears to focus on. her right breast then the next video is. about 16 second long and it shows Gavin. using Margaret's deceased hand with.

purple blackberry jam on there to. pleasure his private parts so he's. taking Margaret's hand covering it in. jelly and then using it on his private. area and near the end of the 16-second. video he inserts a digit into Margaret's. body. parts a finger then another photo this. time Margaret's position so that the. focus of the photo is on her lower priv. parts then another a plastic gloved hand.

is holding on to her bottom after. killing Margaret Gavin stayed in her. house from 2:09 a.m. to 4:10 a.m. to. perform these necro acts he does not. fully essay her corpse but this would. still be considered. necr in most of the files in the folder. Margaret is either n or partially Ned. and you can see the gloves that Gavin is. wearing that night there is no video of. him actually killing Margaret because. it's likely he had to use both hands to. strangle.

her medical evidence indicates that it. would have taken her several minutes to. die he killed someone that is 81 years. older than him a 98-year-old woman she. made it through 98 years and it's the. teenager down the street to what engage. in necr Acts and document the whole. thing why the police rushed to arrest. Gavin in his house and the officer asks. him did you know I'd be coming to see. you after we got your phone I figured as. soon as I heard the knock on the door I. honestly if my boots were tied I think I.

would have ran once they bring him into. the same interrogation room this time. he's much more distraught so his first. interrogation was like a week before and. now he's brought back in because they go. through his phone and it's all connected. wait so the first time interviewing they. didn't know what he did no but this time. they came for that now where was the. mother when when the door was knocking. like when they came for him she was in. the house she knows it's pertaining to. Margaret doesn't know what they found on. his phone and this interrogation she's.

not in the room she's in the lobby okay. so she has some susp clue but I don't. think she understood it's going to be. necr abuse of a corpse right right right. maybe she is trying to justify like some. sort of crazy thing in her head yeah and. he's in the interrogation room he can't. even sit still he's crying he goes from. sitting on the chair to rocking back and. forth to fullon laying on the ground in. a fetal position the female detective. comes up and puts her hand on his back. to soothe him it's an interrogation.

technique I'm. upset that's what Gavin says I know. telling me about it isn't going to give. you much relief it doesn't change the. fact that I ruin my life oh he's on his. back on the ground crying we can't go. back and change that Gavin I know at. this point we just have to figure out. what's going on with you okay and you. didn't take anything from Margaret's. house right like I said before doesn't. make a difference either way I mean what. other crime could I commit that would.

really matter at this point which side. note I do see people upset that the. female detective is showing him so much. quote unquote Grace but I think in this. case she's just doing her job she's. getting a confession regardless of the. evidence the confession is more likely. to get a just verdict from the jury to. hear someone especially a minor say what. they did how they did it and why they. did it that's almost always going to. help the victim's case that's what the. officer is trying to do here during the. interrogation the audio is quite. difficult to hear and it's not. particularly insightful the only time.

Gavin gets emotional is again when he. realizes what kind of trouble he's going. to be in he tells authorities that he's. never been inside Margaret's house. except when he went to kill her he. thought he was going out that night to. go through some unlocked cars but. instead he saw Margaret sleeping through. her home window he tries her back door. it was unlocked he says if it was locked. he wouldn't have gone in he walks in. records her sleeping but as he was. getting closer he tripped on the chair. and she woke up SC screaming he claims. he didn't know what to do but he saw. Margaret reach for her phone so he.

strangled her and she knows him she. knows that's the kid five houses down he. killed her and then he proceeded to stay. for the next few hours committing acts. of necrophilia you see how none of that. adds up he says it's a crime of passion. but suddenly an opportunity to engage in. some of the most depraved acts on the. planet mhm they ask have you talked to. Margaret before I mean I think we. discussed this a couple of times but. just this one time when I was 13 or 14 I. was going a shovel driveway and stuff. you know when I was actually doing. something good with my life so when she.

died was she on the couch or on the. floor floor were you on top of her then. kind of like stradling her yeah and do. do you use one hand or both both did you. squeeze it or push her against the floor. or both both you said you don't remember. if she was bleeding at that point only. reason I can think of bleeding is when I. put my hand over her. mouth you were when you were holding.

your hand over her mouth you might have. pushed too hard and maybe made a nose. please yeah were you in her house for a. little while before you woke her up like. I came up into the porch and I didn't. even know what I was going to do and I. looked in the window and everything I. don't know I felt like I was I just felt. like going into the house it was like. the biggest adrenaline rush I could get. I guess so then I tried the door knob. and that just happened to be unlocked he. talks about after after killing Margaret. he shoved Margaret's body into the.

closet all by himself and quote he's. stronger than he looks so earlier you. said that he applied to work at a. funeral home a funeral home was he. working there already or he applied he. applied but they did not hire him when. did he apply before this killing or. after before before okay that says a lot. right a little while before the police. asked him that night you were at. Margaret's have you drank or smoked. anything done any drugs that night no. that I was actually sober that night.

which is another reason why I smoke and. drink because I can't handle myself when. I'm sober I can't like comprehend I. don't even know how the word goes my. thoughts when I'm sober are dark when. I'm high they're like good thoughts have. you ever thought about harming anyone. before or taking someone's life before. not like planning it out but like oh I'm. so mad I could kill someone right now. like that kind of thing but you never. imagined yourself actually doing it no I. could never envision myself. I mean I've wondered what killing. someone would feel like but I've also.

wondered what jumping off a building. would feel like so it's not like. anything was premeditated Gavin explains. that he has thoughts of self- exiting. but he never could do it because it was. too evil for his family his mom would. not be able to handle it Gavin would. even text his best friend Braden about. these thoughts and feelings about life. the text would read I've been doing some. light research and I'm not saying that I. have this or whatever but like this is. an actual disorder pretty much caused by. wires in your brain being wired the. wrong way if that makes sense hopefully.

it's not like that but I guess I don't. really care if it is or not I believe. every person is made the way they are. for a reason whether they're as pure as. God or as evil as the devil it's who. they're supposed to be I think it's like. that so that there's a balance between. good and bad in the world but what did. he say what how is his brain wired did. he say he never describes but he thinks. he's pure evil oh Gavin tells. authorities that he spends every day. getting high on weed stimulants drinking. a fifth of alcohol per day that's about. 17 shots of hard liquor per day that's a.

fifth of. alcohol he says his biggest Obsession. though you know I will tell you the. symptoms you tell me what drugs this is. when this drug kicks in it's a sense of. euphoria it almost feels like you have. increased energy and strength it feels. like you could probably lift a car if. you get punched in the face you might. not even feel the pain until way later. you feel practically Invincible you feel. like a rush do you know what drug that. is alcohol.

adrenaline Gavin says he's addicted to. Adrenaline what he says the adrenaline. is the only thing that makes me feel. like I'm even alive did you go into the. house initially just to steal something. honestly all I did was I just wanted the. adrenaline rush oh just going into the. house yeah I think that's why I broke. into cars and stuff it's that risk. factor all I've ever done is take risks. because that's the only thing that makes. me feel so that's your drug adrenaline.

yeah I don't know like nothing feels. wrong with me when I have adrenaline. it's like everything's all right you. feel alive like there's meaning right I. don't know about meaning but it feels. different like I don't know how to. explain it he's telling the cops that. yeah any bad stuff about you goes away I. guess so your whole intention of going. into the house was just the adrenaline. of being in somebody's house yeah I. didn't want to rob the house okay so. it's just the sneaky thrill of can I get. into somebody's house and get out and. get away with it yeah but if the door.

was locked I would have just walked away. the whole breaking into the house was. the adrenaline part I think I didn't. even have a grip on reality whenever I. did that I didn't even know whose house. it was at first. until as for his motive he claims his. whole motive was adrenaline and then. Margaret woke up and he felt panicked he. had to kill her but then why did he. commit the acts of necrobia he says it's. not even like that is this like the. first time we ever heard somebody talk. about. adrenaline yes in this type of scenario.

yes um in this scenario yes typically. you will hear. adrenaline in serial. killers it's yeah they're they're kind. of addicted to that too yes I mean I. think that a lot of people are addicted. to Adrenaline and that's why you have. people who are heavily invested in. skydiving all the time or they're. chasing certain Thrills it's it's just. varying degrees of. addiction this this seems more of like.

the Sero killer addiction to the thrill. aspect I think it's tied to the fact. that they're doing something that they. shouldn't do and they get off on. that but he's very angry when the acts. of necrofilia are even brought up he's. angry about being accused of this whole. crime committed for the purpose of essay. but he can't explain anything further. like he can't explain why it makes him. so angry or anything else and I don't. know if this has anything to with. adrenaline but it does later come out to. the authorities that Gavin would Chase.

his siblings around with knives when he. was younger he'd be like 10 years old. chasing them around with a knife. regardless he keeps stating it's. adrenaline adrenaline is why he. committed the crime and the officers are. not convinced they tell him we know that. you were wearing gloves and we found one. of the gloves that you were wearing and. there was purple stuff on it they ask. him what was the purple stuff that was. on it Gavin looks very embarrassed the. officers already know what the purple. stuff is the officer pushes I get it. there's like this whole piece of this. that you don't understand why you do. okay but the purple stuff it's the whole.

seual piece no the purple stuff was that. jelly I don't even know where it came. into play did you maybe use it as some. kind of lubricant for something is this. the part that you're just embarrassed in. your own mind you know what I mean none. of this is okay Gavin is saying that. well I'm saying we understand that it's. an embarrassing part we're not sure if. it's you don't understand or if it's. just embarrassing it's something that I. don't understand I guess you didn't have.

any with her did you he shakes his head. no but you put the jelly on the glove. and is that when you used her hand to. rub your private parts he covers his. face. yeah was it at the same time that you. were taking some of those. pictures. yeah like like what is this that's when. the shock set in yeah it's like what am. I doing there's a couple of videos of. you peeking over the edge of the couch.

and videotaping her when was all of that. done that was the same night why why did. I lie about anything that was stupid. throughout the interrogation he claims. multiple times that he never took. Margaret's red wallet that's missing it. is later found in his drawer shoved next. to a bottle of Hollister cologne that he. stole from another grinder carjacking it. appears he took Margaret's wallet and. those photos and videos of her as some. sort of trophy the police talk to.

Gavin's friends and they talk to Maddie. this is a fake name this is Gavin's on. andof girlfriend and she's sitting there. confused and she's explaining this whole. situation where she was sitting with a. girlfriend of hers let's call her Rachel. and Rachel is telling her what Gavin. said about her Rachel is like hey your. boyfriend said this about you and she's. like who even says that Rachel is. explaining remember that night we went. to the movies well while we were at the. movies gav g i I don't recall if you. went to the restroom or you went to go. grab popcorn but Gavin was talking about.

how he wouldn't even care if someone. came in and held a gun up to your head. he said quote if someone came in here. and pointed a gun at Maddy's head right. now I wouldn't do anything I would not. do anything I would just watch Maddie. and Rachel are like what does that even. mean what is going on with this guy I. mean nobody's expecting a 17-year-old to. suddenly become a Navy SEAL but also. you're not going to do anything what is. what why are you even telling someone. this yeah the way Maddie describes it to.

the police is Gavin seemed like he was. finally getting better with his life but. for whatever reason reason unclear to. everyone else he got swept up in the. wrong path that's how she describes it. she would go at 3:00 a.m. to check his. Snapchat location on the phone cuz you. can share it with friends he'd be out. breaking curfew he'd be in the middle of. nowhere at 3:00 a.m. Gavin and Maddie. had known each other since they were in. the first grade but recently started. dating and she just tells police that. there's just so much more to it she says. quote we're all in this group chat and.

Gavin said once that he could kill. someone and not feel anything but he. wasn't going to kill someone because he. knew that it was wrong Maddie says that. she was speechless but she thought maybe. it's a joke she text him back you would. never do that he says yeah I know which. okay maybe he's just trying to be edgy. that's what she thought but then Gavin's. coworker Hillary another fake name from. the pizza shop she says Gavin would. always tell her at work that he's never. actually happy that he just is Faking it. when in fact he feels empty on the.

inside he would tell her about his plans. to catfish people on the internet he. wanted to catfish someone for the sole. purpose of meeting up with them so that. he could hurt them the police asked was. he ever abusive or violent towards. animals not that I know of but when news. broke of that 98-year-old woman being. found dead it just had a sneaking. suspicion why Hillary shows the. investigators a Snapchat message between. them where she asks Gavin if he's okay. she says quote what's the matter he. responds anyone I guess nothing it's.

cool I don't know I just get some really. up thoughts like about murdering people. and it doesn't bother me and I watched. one of those self- exit videos on. YouTube and I laughed and I'm pretty. sure I could kill someone in Cold Blood. and not feel guilty or sad or anything. about it I honestly have two emotions. and they're angry or laughing and I'm. never really happy I'm just faking it I. don't even get sad anymore I literally. don't care about anything whatsoever. other small things that the police learn. about Gavin it's pretty clear he has a. strange relationship with his parents. one friend claims that Gavin and his dad.

got into a really bad fight once and it. compelled Gavin to choke himself out I. don't know if he was trying to do it in. spite of his dad to scare him to make. him feel guilty or if he was in distress. or both but it's alarming a few of the. friends do remember Gavin posting a. Snapchat taking a picture out of his. bedroom window and showing all the cop. cars out on the neighborhood streets and. some of them even messaged Gavin saying. wo that's crazy speaking of Snapchat one. of us friend says quote he always seemed. happy at school but then on Snapchat he.

would just seem so mad during the search. on Gavin's home police come across a 70. page notebook like the ones that they. make you buy at the beginning of every. school year it's bright purple they find. it under his bed the first few pages are. research papers into two notorious. serial killers Donald Gaskins and Ted. Bundy the more notable being Ted Bundy. considering he too engaged in heavy acts. of necrofilia but then when you flip the. pages these serial killer biographies. slowly morph into horror movie skit.

ideas none of which are good one page. reads skid ideas horror at the factory. introduction Braden his best friend is. playing at the park and I am a murderer. and I'm plotting on how to kill him then. he notices me watching him from a. distance so he stops playing looks at me. then I start walking towards him so he. runs into the woods the end fin finale. critical Acclaim and Oscar I don't know. what he's thinking the next page reads. skid ideas it looks like a page from a.

brainstorming session seral killer. taking person into the woods interactive. Horror Story hunted for $1,000 horror at. the factory scene setting different. outcomes and scenarios a series I will. say there does seem to be some sort of. Fascination into his best friend Braden. he writes three potential minod series. which I do not believe will be picked up. by any network anytime soon episode one. is written bradden comes back from. college travel running away Etc he we. decide to go on a hike and catch up and.

bond at the old spot we went to as kids. Silver Creek as we're walking we get. into a heated conversation about Braden. leaving and going away which leaves me. at home with a sh home life and abusive. drunk dad and as we're yelling at each. other I lose my footing and. realistically fall down the cliff. episode 2 opens back up on the. Cliffhanger literally it reads Braden. frantically rushes down the cliff to. come help me and show me that he will. always be my big brother and that he. will always be there for me and never. leave me once he reaches the bottom we. have a heart-to-heart talk and then he.

starts to help me up in episode three as. they're making their way back up the. hill Braden falls and gets more serious. injuries than Gavin so they're both. injured and both their phones are broken. that's it it's not the most riveting. stuff but the journal becomes more. pertinent to investigators when th those. skid ideas start morphing into a diary. Gavin is journaling this has been. shortened but his first journal entry. reads this writing thing is new to me so. I'm going to give this my best shot I. hate being at home I hate being.

downstairs with my family because a lot. of the time I feel like I don't really. belong here if I'm at home I prefer to. just be alone in my room I feel like I. don't belong anywhere I can contain my. thoughts and urges most days but. sometimes I just want toing go off on. someone and beat them until they're not. breathing anymore it's not even for. attention or anything I honestly want to. take someone's life I want to know what. that would feel like what it would feel. like to stand over some dead body I. don't feel empathy or sympathy for. anybody like I just don't give a. and I want to know why like I wouldn't.

feel bad if I killed someone but I don't. want to sit in prison like that would. suck I really need to stop drinking but. it drowns out the pain so I probably. won't stop his next journal entry reads. all right so I'm back and man do I have. some to say today I'm listening to I'm. Sorry by Joiner Lucas which side note is. a really painful song about self exit. and how it affects family members after. a loved one is gone viewer discretion is. advice it was very emotionally rough but. insightful but just be careful going. into it very beautifully done though.

anyway Gavin writes it really makes me. get in my feels after I listened to that. I went and hit the punching bag and. really needed to let it out a lot of. built up rage and anger I fcked up my. hands but I knocked the bag completely. off the chain it was hanging from and it. felt good to have that kind of power I. think if Counseling doesn't help me I'm. honestly just going to kill someone like. I'm not just saying that I'll probably. take a girl out into the woods orward. her and kill her I wouldn't even feel. bad about it but I know it's wrong I. think I'm a depressed soci ath to be. honest I don't care about 99% of things. the only things I truly care about are.

my friends and my close family while. Gavin is confessing to murder both of. his parents mom and dad are sitting. outside in the lobby of the police. station the authorities inform them that. they have some news and updates to share. but they need to conduct another search. on the house and it would be best if. nobody was home Gavin's mom calls her. other kids hey honey listen this is. going to be a weird request but I need. you to take your brothers and take them. out of the house right now why I'll. explain later maybe go to to Uncle. David's and just hang there and we will. call you when we can come home is.

everything all right Mom no everything. is not all right but don't tell your. brothers right now after they get out of. the house the two parents are waiting. for the police to finally tell them. what's going on and the female officer. tells him the mobile phone contained. images of Margaret before and after her. death as well as videos of your son with. her both of them have a physical. reaction it's not an extreme reaction at. least not visibly but they seem shaken. Gavin's mom is the first to.

talk um. engaging with was she still alive when. was doing this I don't oh my. God both of them cover their mouths with. their hands and honestly Gavin's dad. seems to be hit the hardest he's. grabbing the wall he looks lost he. doesn't even know what to do with. himself where his his mom keeps going. this isn't happening this isn't real I. want you to know that I spoke to the. director of the juvenile Detention. Facility I explained the situation I. explained that Gavin is highly. emotionally distraught I asked him to.

put him on um self- exit watch okay okay. I asked him to keep him under 24/7. observation I know this is an. emotionally devastating situation. Gavin's mom is nodding it's unclear if. she's just going into mom mode trying to. pay attention and think for her son or. if she's in shock I don't know but the. dad is very distraught he's sitting down. he's shaking and a male cops says it. it's a horrible set of circumstances you. deserve to know that he will be tried as.

an. adult the Dad starts crying eventually. 98 years. old. just living out her days and here F son. my son did. this mother all these people out here. and it's my son eventually the. interaction ends with the mom asking the.

officer everyone who knows Margaret says. it's not what you think when you. envision a 98-year-old woman she was. strong she was fierce she was born in. 1919 this took place in 2018 she was a. few months away from turning 99 she. lived through the second world war the. moonlanding I mean she just seems so. excited to live out the rest of her days. she would tell her family she just wants. to hit a 100 cuz why not you know and we. don't know too much about Margaret but. in almost every picture of her that I've.

seen regardless of her age there's. always a dog there's always a dog nearby. and she's a big Gardener she lived in. that house tended to it for the past 50. years someone who once knew Margaret. says when I was a little girl this woman. would actually babysit me now I'm in my. 80s thinking about her the crafts and. games that she would play with me and on. my fifth birthday my family and I moved. away and I never saw her again just. finding out about her death I feel like. it's too late to help but she's with God. now I love her and I miss her.

forever according to everyone that knew. Margaret she's just very independent she. handled her own finances her husband had. passed she didn't want to move she. wanted to live in this house that she. had created this whole life with him. forever and that was her dream and then. she gets murdered by a 17-year-old kid. back in the interrogation room the. officer confronts Gavin with the belief. that she believes if he had not been. caught Gavin would have gone on to kill. more people because even after Gavin. kills Margaret he says he didn't really.

feel different he said I didn't really. feel like anything had changed or had. happened I really didn't feel anything I. just continued to break into cars and. drink and smoke dope wow the officer. says unfortunately I think you would. have hurt more people was that in your. plan I mean it wasn't in my plan but I. could see that happening many neens. believe that he was ramping up to be a. serial killer so remember how I said in. his little Journal he had those serial. killer reports also to call it reports. or research is kind of goofy he makes it. sound like he's sitting there doing some.

sort of focus work because he was. telling his friends Almost bragging. about it that he's researching serial. killers I'm not entirely sure what. compelled me to go down this route but. after listening to hours and hours of. his raw interrogation footage the idea. of him writing these Snippets of these. serial killers it just didn't really. make sense as to who I was hearing in. the interrogation footage as to who was. writing in the journals it was just. copied and pasted from a crime magazine. yeah oh he's copying a crime Magazine's.

words onto his own journal yes. pretending that this is his own thoughts. yes so I don't think that he had a. particular Fascination in serial killers. um I think that he had a Fascination in. wanting to be perceived as one or to be. perceived as. dark oh like all the okay so it doesn't. seem like he's sitting there studying. Ted Bundy hismo how he was caught why he. was caught why he did those things so. it's very interesting because a lot of. people some some people feel Sympathy.

for the way that he keeps telling his. friends he wants to understand what's. going on in his mind and then you would. kind of it would be safe to conclude. that if he's researching zero Killers. maybe he's trying to understand their. minds to see how it connects to his mind. but that's not the case I think he just. is a bad person MH but he's saying these. things not because he truly wants to. understand himself but I think I. personally think he just wants to be. perceived a certain way MH because he's. not really researching other Minds that.

he feels are similar to his he's not. researching seral killers in their. thought process he's practically copy. and pasting their Wikipedia Pages down. it's hard to say that he's trying to. understand himself through that mhm. Gavin Ramsey is indicted and charged. with one count of aggravated murder two. counts of murder three counts of felony. murder one count aggravated burglary one. count kidnapping and one count of abuse. of a corpse Gavin did see accounts a few. years prior to the murder but I don't. think that he told anybody about his. necrophilic Tendencies the counselor.

does go on to prescribe him at one point. 100 milligram of Zoloft per day Zoloft. is an. anti-depressant 100 milligrams is a. pretty high dosage now I was inclined to. assume that the counselor knew nothing. but according to his medical files it's. noted that January 2018 just 3 months. before the murder Gavin's pediatrician. noted that Gavin was displaying. psychological difficulties and having. intrusive thoughts of violence his mom. States if I could change one thing I.

would never have agreed to put my son on. Zoloft so his whole defense during the. trial is the Zoloft defense that Zoloft. made him more aggressive more violent. which there are some studies that show. that it does happen that's their whole. defense the mom even says you cannot. believe that my decision to let him take. zolof was not part of the cause of this. she claims that from January to March. that he was on zolof she noted him. getting increasingly irritable hostile. even saying quote bizarre things and.

prior to that he was just the sweetest. boy I guess which like I said there are. studies done to show how Zola can impact. people especially teenagers that it does. increase aggression they symptoms of you. know agitation restlessness anger. irritability and she tells the judge. before this Gavin was loyal to a fault. he's compassionate and this thing this. thing that we're sitting here discussing. is not who my son is I don't care how. much you want to pluck out Evil Fast. that's not my. son side note there is another odd.

moment with Gavin and his mom during the. interrogation where he hasn't confessed. to murder yet I'm just giving you the. dynamic of mother and son he has not. confessed to the murder of Margaret he's. only conest to the carjacking he's. rocking back and forth ranting and. pointing at his mom and he's saying I'm. costing them thousands of dollars cuz. he's always getting in legal trouble. constant heartbreak I honestly probably. never made either of them proud. I don't do anything good ever. and his mom just whips to him and.

instead of being like no son you do make. me proud she just goes stop cussing stop. cussing okay she does not deny it just. tells him to stop C it's a weird. interaction and now she's up on the. stand saying he's compassionate he's. loyal to a fault in addition to the. zolof defense if you will his attorneys. bring up his past there are records that. Gavin was allegedly a victim of a sexual. offense back in 2009 so that means he. would have been 9 years old we don't. know exactly what happened but we can. kind of imagine and presume based off of. what he told authorities that he had.

been with a man before but it was quote. involuntary I couldn't find the Case. Files anywhere probably because he was. nine at the time some netizens think it. is a fair argument considering that. trauma could have shaped his brain. differently when he's 9 years old and. sent him down this path but be that as. it may other netizens say what does. Margaret have to do with that a lot of. people have been victimized but they. don't go out and do what he did they. don't go out and commit necrofilia. also who targets a 98-year-old woman. that feels completely unrelated to his.

alleged trauma ultimately Gavin's. defense and mother have argued that it's. his taking of zolof that led him to. commit this crime the only time Gavin. seems emotional throughout the entire. trial proceedings is when his mom is. testifying and stating that all of this. is because of Zoloft he does not get. emotional even when Margaret's family. members give impact statements meanwhile. the prosecutor's main focus is not just. the killing of Margaret but what he did. to Margaret's body afterwards the police. chief says this murder was the most. horrific crime that he had ever seen in. his 30 years of working as a cop he says.

Gavin just has evil in him to do. something like that that's the only way. I can explain it another officer says he. degraded her body videotaping and taking. pictures he's actually been in there. with her for a while he stayed for 2. hours the only reason that he went home. is because his mom wakes up at 5:00 in. the morning and he had to pretend to be. sleep who knows how much longer he would. have stayed who knows what more he would. have done. the prosecutors also argue that zoff. cannot be the reason for his aggressive. behavior they call into evidence that he.

starts his zoff prescription January. 31st. 2018 a week before January 19th 2018. he's writing in his journal quote I just. want to go off on someone and beat them. until they're not breathing anymore I. honestly just want to take someone's. life the prosecutor also points to the. fact that even during the interrogation. the time that he gets the most emotional. when he is practically rocking back and. forth this is again before he confesses. to killing Margaret this is when he. thinks he's going to court for.

carjacking he says I was 16 and I. already had aing felony like five. misdemeanors and now I'm going to be in. more trouble and I have to go back to. court and I'm so done with it I'm done. with it honestly I don't even want to. live at home anymore I don't know I'm. not normal I just need to live somewhere. else like I don't know some halfway. house or something I honestly would not. care at this point I don't even care. what's on my record I mean like I do but. like not right now I know I might have. to deal with it for like another next. nine months and this is what makes me so. mad I don't know I'm I'm mad at myself.

I'm so mad at myself he acts like he's a. victim that he has to go through the. court process he's crying because of. consequences later when he's talking. about what he did to Margaret the. authorities ask him are you sorry this. happened yeah I'm really sorry that I. did all of this were you sorry about all. of this before you got caught yeah like. I I constantly like I think about it a. lot and I I feel like bad about what I.

did I know it's wrong but I can't. express the. emotion if she was here alive in front. of you what would you say to her I'm. sorry that never that never meant to. happen if I could take it back I would. like is he mimicking the yes none of. these are actual descriptions of. feelings these are um what people call. dead phrases m so when you're like I. guess when you're writing or reading or. even speaking there's things dead.

phrases I if I could take it back I. would it doesn't really actually mean. anything and it's been overused to the. point where it does not evoke a feeling. yeah you're not describing a feeling. you're almost just saying things yeah. absolutely yeah it's he's just saying. what he thinks he needs to say yeah. there's no emotion behind his words. no so scary and he also talks about how. his dad is going to be so upset and he. says I know it's going to ruin our. family name that's what he says it's. going to ruin their family name see so.

okay it gives the feeling is he. understands the consequences what this. means how bad this is what's going to. happen he he he heard enough of it he. knows it but he has no attachment. nothing there's no emotion behind any of. these right no that that's what's so. terrifying about the only emotion he has. is when he is facing prison and. Court yeah and even that like it doesn't.

sound like he is it's still different. like he's still is still it's like he's. annoyed by it yes it's like agitating. versus devastating yeah eventually Gavin. pleads no contest and is found guilty. November 2018 of all the charges against. him including aggravated murder murder. aggravated burglary kidnapping gross. abuse of a corpse he also provides a. statement to court to Margaret family. which honestly is not a great statement. I think it provides no closure he can't. even explain why he did what he did he.

just says I don't know how to explain. why all this happened I don't think. there is an explanation to begin with I. think about it all the time I'd take it. back in a heartbeat if I could I feel. terrible for what I've done and I will. never do anything like that again I'm. sorry for what I did I constantly live. in regret and shame because of it. Margaret's family gave their Victim. Impact statements and her great niece. said had he not been caught I have no. doubt that he would continue to escalate. his crimes and continue killing and I. believe he planned to kill numerous. people he used my aunt as a warm-up so.

to speak Gavin was sentenced to life. without the possibility of parole uh 10. years for aggravated burglary 10 for. kidnapping and one year of abuse of a. corpse to be served. consecutively which side note a lot of. netizens Hope for the death penalty but. he was 17 which means he cannot face. capital punishment he has appealed a. sentence which was denied but it doesn't. really matter because in Ohio a new. Senate bill passed it's the new law s SP. 256 and abolishes life imprisonment.

without parole for juvenile offenders. even if they're charged as adults they. have automatic chance at parole at 25. years key word is chance now side note. in 25 years Gavin will only be 42 years. old so even without Gavin's case the. bill is pretty controversial with one. expert stating the person you are at 16. is not the person you are at 50 the. juvenile brain is not fully developed. they do things impulsively while a. prosecutor argues back that well maybe. that's true for certain cases maybe like.

drug rated offenses but in these types. of cases like Gavins they say quote. someone who has a propensity to become a. serial killer and then gets out in 25 or. 30 years I don't agree with that at all. now Margaret's family member says when. he was sentenced it was like okay we. took a criminal off the road we took him. out of society and now we're looking at. here we go again now he may be back in. society at some time which I don't even. think that they're opposed to. rehabilitating teens Margaret's family. member just says it puts all of these.

juvenile criminals into one box whether. they were being Reckless and shooting a. gun that accidentally killed someone or. if they're committing these devious. plotting crimes like Gavin did he will. murder somebody and torment somebody and. kill somebody again one Senator argues. the bill was looking at many of those. cases where people have changed and. turned their lives around became good. model prisoners and done everything. right they made a mistake when they. juveniles and were sentenced as adults. in no way does this new law guarantee. release for offenders only an.

opportunity for parole if they can show. that they are truly. rehabilitated and while I get that how. do you really know sure the judge. presiding over the case said that Gavin. is irreparably corrupt and unfit to. re-enter Society but it won't be the. same judge that determines if he gets. probation and what you see on the. probation records is kind of a watered. down version of the actual facts of the. case it's not going to be as in- depth. you're not going to get the emotions of. the family members the victim impact. statements you're not going to have as.

much of that involved and of course. people like Gavin are really good at. faking remorse this is how he writes. about himself he has a profile on the. website write a prisoner.com he's. looking for pen pals and it reads Gavin. Ramsey is 23 years old and incarcerated. in Ohio USA he states he is an Aries a. Christian but not seeking prayer. partners and he's straight and his. profile reads hey there I'll keep it. short and sweet and if I spark your. curiosity you're more than welcome to. write to me I'm looking for people who.

are interested in spirit soul and body. growth and development I enjoy. conversations that delve far beneath the. surface and I love to laugh and see. people smile as well I believe everybody. has something beautiful to contribute to. the people and places around them but it. takes the right person to unearth so. great a gem perhaps I'm that person for. you perhaps you're that person for me I. enjoy writing music and poetry I play. sports and have a high regard for my. health and fitness I also crochet which. is more therapeutic than I originally. thought but only in prison would I learn.

such a craft LOL I'm in college and I'm. always searching for proactive ways to. mature as an individual both for myself. and for those around me I believe if you. want to see a difference you have to be. the difference this gives me he's amping. up for parole in 25 years he says thus I. invite you to come be a difference with. me I look forward to hearing from you. smiley face he will be eligible for. parole when he's 4 2 years old in 2043. Margaret's family says it's terrifying. they say several family members chose to.

give Victim Impact statements at a. sentencing before his sentencing they. have to give Victim Impact statements. they don't know what his sentence is. going to be they know that he's been. found guilty but they don't know the. sentence he could be out and about they. said we know that if we put our true. thoughts in our statements Gavin would. be able to read and hear them and we. discuss the risk of giving him fuel for. the rage he carries inside him knowing. that at some point he might be released. from prison while my siblings and I are. still alive he's relatively young and. knowing he may come after us but we all. decided to move forward with our. statement and trusted that the criminal.

justice system would ensure that justice. as well as our safety and the community. safety would be prioritized when. sentencing the amount of relief when we. found out that he had life without. parole immeasurable that relief is now. gone because of s256 we now spend every. day worrying about Gavin's release his. release may happen not only when my. siblings and I are still alive but when. my parents are alive so this is the. great niece Cindy's daughter Cindy and. Howard's daughter wow I still have. nights when I need to check closets and.

under the bed out of paranoia I still. have nights where I wake up Suddenly and. have to put my gun next to me on the bed. in order to feel safe if he wasn't. concerned about getting home prior to. his parents waking how much longer would. he have stayed with Margaret what else. would he have. done I mean I I think I can feel that. like because of his his crying is so. senseless so unreasonable like this is. truly a mind of a serial killer so you. feel so terrified because there's no. closure you can't predict how this.

person is going to act because I think. we as humans all run on a system of. calculating other people's risk. tolerance it's I don't believe this. person will kill me because then they. will forfeit this they have this risk of. what happens to them but it truly seems. he does not care for that he actually. likes the thrill of taking risks. mhm so it's it's very unpredict a I'm. sure is the feeling and so scary yeah. they say our sense of safety has forever.

changed but they're going to fight every. parole hearing every chance that he's. going to be free or every chance he. could be free they're going to be there. many netizens have also said it's scary. because in court he's very polite very. polite to the judge he presents as a. very well put together young man and the. top comments read was he this polite. when he was murdering a defenseless. elderly. lady the only time that he's emotional. during the trial is when his mom is. talking and when they tell him that he's. going to County Jail rather than. Juvenile Detention and he looks.

physically ill a lot of netizens are. focused on the victim's age they write. imagine being 98 you escape death by. accidents illness live through World. Wars The Great Depression and more so. close to dying in your bed peacefully. only for a low life to do this to you. some neens feel very conflicted on. whether or not he has the ability to. rehabilitate stating mixed emotions on. this one what he did was absolutely. disgusting and Evil but this is a child. whose brain is not completely developed. and trained I really don't know what way. to go in this case others think oh he's.

way too far gone now they right it's a. good thing they caught him while he's. young because this type of action just. escalates as they get older some people. cannot be fixed on other rights I don't. know how people can question it some. people are just born this way they. should be eradicated from society you. cannot fix them or Senate Bill 256 is. going to protect this kid to an extent. but hopefully a parole board will see. the serial killer in him and deny him. parole for life if they let him out he. will absolutely do it again serial. killers do not stop unless they're dead. or caught another comment reads this is.

Jeffrey dmer in the making thank God he. was stopped at his first victim rest her. soul there would have been many more to. come other netizens are shocked at the. crime itself saying the father's. screaming it's my son my son that did. this it's heartbreaking others comment. his parents seem like are right people. but I just get the feeling that. something is off with his mom she's. saying the right words but I just felt. something off about her I don't know I. can't explain it which many netizens who. watch her statement in court agree they. say did she just call her son.

compassionate not sure what this woman. knows what compassionate even means. other moms agree if that was my son I. would not be calling him compassionate I. would be taking him to prison myself or. another one reads that boy is like that. because of his mom you know even when. slapped in the face with how much of a. monster her demon spawn is she chooses. to ignore and coddle him she raised that. she should be ashamed. his mommy says he's compassionate yeah. well so is the justice system who gave. him life sentence with parole now.

another comment just points out if a. detective ever asks you what do you. think should happen to the person that. did this just know that you are their. suspect. LOL and that is where we are with this. case what are your thoughts do you think. that he can be. rehabilitated can someone this far gone. be rehabilitated or no what are your. thoughts. let me know in the comments and I will. see you in the next one be safe bye.

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