16 Kids Kept In 12x12 ft Room Covered In Feces - Why Internet Thinks Mom of 16 Kids Is Also a Victim

Bada bing, bada boom. >> By 9:45 p.m., the very aggressive, bright fluorescent LED lights are enough. to drive anybody insane and give. somebody a headache, especially if. you've been inside this giant Dollar. General store all day [music] long with. all the bright neon yellow signs, because of course that is the store's. color. Ariel has been working at this. specific location for the past 2 years, which like a lot of other Dollar General. stores and stores with the word dollar. in its name, most things are not a.

dollar. The average price of an item at the. Dollar General is around $2.50, but it is still cheaper than other. stores and it's one of the very few. stores in this entire town of Hamden, Ohio. The population of the town is. around 700 people. I wouldn't be. surprised if Ariel has seen at least a. good chunk of the entire population walk. in, grab something, check out at her. cash register. Since it is one of the. few stores, I can also imagine that. Ariel gets a lot of regulars. One.

particular family, the Siders, they. always come in at 9:45 p.m. just before. closing. You can usually smell them. before you see them and that's not meant. to be in an offensive way. Ariel and the. Dollar General staff, they have seen. families that were struggling and I. think everyone can agree it is better to. buy a bag of rice for the kids than it. is to buy shampoo if you really have to. choose between the two. And Ariel. remembers she and her colleagues would. purchase hygiene products with their own. [music] money to give to the Siders. family.

But the next day they would come in. and it didn't smell like they were using. any of the hygiene products. So, Ariel. says they all kind of backed off from. that point cuz they thought maybe the. family was getting offended that they. were offering them hygiene products, so. maybe it's best to just back off and lay. off. But Ariel did notice some really odd. things about the Siders. You have the. parents, they look to be in their 30s. They do carry with them the very. distinct smell of cat urine. Sometimes. they would come in alone, sometimes they. would bring along a child or two.

The children would always have hair in. their face. Like not just messy hair, but their hair. would be covering their face and. covering their eyes. You cannot get a. good look at their face. Ariel says the. children would also stick very close to. the parents, as close to them as. possible. And it almost felt like to. Ariel that the children were taught to. never look up or make eye contact with. others. According to Ariel, the family came in. and would always buy the same few. things. Sometimes they would purchase. sugar, once in a blue moon. Very rarely,

not all the time, but like once in a. blue moon, they would purchase diapers. But they're coming in nearly every day, so what are they buying? They would. always buy the same two things. A jug of. water and a decent size bottle of. vegetable oil. Water and vegetable oil. Water and. cooking oil are usually staples in. everybody's house, but I don't know how. frequently one needs to replenish their. oil. Would you need to restock it as. frequently as you would a jug of water? Monday, June 29th of this year, Ariel. sees the Cyder family walk in and. purchase their regular items. A jug of.

water and a decent size bottle of. vegetable oil. The next day, June 30th, Tuesday, she sees them on the news after. they are arrested in connection to what. has now been dubbed the Ohio House of. Horrors case, where 16 children were. found cramped in a 12 by 12 room, where. there are more questions than answers. now. The initial questions were, of. course, is human trafficking? Is this a. human trafficking ring in the middle of. nowhere Ohio? Who are the 16 children?

Who are their parents? Where were they. born? How long were they in that room. for? How did nobody notice? And what. were they doing with the vegetable oil? This is the case of the Cyders family. >> [music].

>> We would like to thank today's sponsors. who have made it possible for Rotten. Mango to support the children in today's. episode. All the official donation. information will be in the show notes. This episode's partnerships have also. made it possible to support Rotten. Mango's team of dedicated researchers. We'd also like to thank you for your. continued support. As always, full show. notes are available at rottenmango. podcast.com. Today's episode involves. mentions of underage marriages, potential speculations of incestuous. relationships, DV, CA, deprivation, and.

torture. Please do not prioritize this. episode over your mental health. This. case is also super current. There are. still investigations pending court. charges, lots of updates. It's evolving. every day. So, if there are any updates. between now and the posting of this. episode, we're going to be sure to add a. pinned comment below. Lastly, quotes, statements, comments may be shortened. for brevity. And there's going to be a. lot of times where in the episode we're. going to talk about people who have come. forward to speak about the family. Those. are unverified individuals. They are not.

testifying in the court of law. They are. not being subpoenaed. These are not. sworn statements of truth. They're just. like Facebook posts. I'm going to. indicate when any of those we should be. a little bit wary of. But with that. being said, let's get started. I have. never seen a house like this before. It. is a big lot with a lot of green trees. surrounding it. And it's a small house. Like 1,300 square feet. Which that. sounds nice. Like a little plot of land. with a lot of green foliage. I mean, it. probably could be nice. But it's also.

sitting directly across from railroad. tracks. There's not even a fence. Nothing guarding the tracks. Instead of. looking out your front door and seeing. your neighbor, you just see railroad. tracks. >> [music]. >> And they're working railroad tracks, too. It is considered a class two track, meaning run as needed. It's not. inactive, but it is very low traffic. Which is probably for the best. The. houses sitting around the railroads, they don't look like they have the best. soundproofing, and it could also be very. dangerous for pets and kids.

Nevertheless, June 30th of this year, 2026, Vinton County Sheriff's Office, they start making their way over to the. railroad tracks. They're investigating a. case, not on the tracks, but directly. across from it in one of those small. boarded-up houses. Officers from the. office show up alongside Ohio Bureau of. Criminal Investigations. It's unclear if. that's how they always operate in. tandem, but I will say the Vinton County. Sheriff's Office does have 10 sworn. officers.

That's it. So, it could be that like. they always need backup. I don't know. Now, this particular house the officers. are approaching and likely. it just hits them like a force field. before they even enter. It's like the. house is alive. It has a smell. distinctly cat urine mixed with who. knows what else. Others that have been. there before describe it as a foul odor. just emanating from the house. When you. walk in the front room, the walls and. the doors look really they look beyond. battered. Let's say you don't shower for.

a few days and you've got all this like. grime on your arm and you just like rub. your arm against the wall on repeat. until the walls are oddly stained with. grime. It's not like if you were to drag. a big dark-colored piece of furniture. across the wall. It's grimy and it's. inconsistent. It's here it's splotchy. It's not just marks and scratches. It. looks like a subway station like filth. on the wall. The house looks abandoned. There's trash on the floor. It piles up. around the walls like some sort of mini.

landfill. And in the front room of this. house is this hanging picture frame. It's like a portrait. But it's art. It's. of a tiger. And it's very odd placement. and a very odd piece of decor, especially in a house that looks so. battered that there's not even like a. real meaningful piece of furniture or. something to sit on. It almost makes the. tiger painting hanging on the wall look. like some sort of museum level artifact. that's just waiting to be discovered. And right under the only piece of. artwork in the entire place is a. freezer. I don't know if it works.

The entire place feels like a dump. There's bags of rice, like a small bag. of rice, and right next to it is a can. of roach spray, which I can't say is the. most appetizing look. It's hard to tell. if all the black marks on the ground are. cat hair, disintegrated trash, grime, feces, rat droppings. Like it could be. anything, but it is everywhere. It is. the type of house where any movement in. your peripheral vision is most likely a. roach. And that's if you're lucky.

Somehow the air feels thicker in a place. like this. It's a small 1,300 square. foot home, but it feels like it's fit an. entire. landfill inside of it. The basement is. filled with trash. I don't know how to. describe it, but the pictures that you. see of it, it's If you've seen any sort. of hoarding home situation, you may know. the visual, but it's when the trash has. been sitting for so long in an unmanaged. pile, it looks like it's melting into. each other. I don't know how it works. There must be some scientific reason,

but if I were to put a plastic trash bag. on my kitchen counter for years, years later, it would still be a plastic. trash bag. But for some reason, when you. pile it together with all these other. buckets of unidentifiable substances, cardboard boxes, moldy clothes, it. disintegrates to look like it is melting. in an oven. As the investigators make. their way through each room, they find a. little 12 by 12 foot room. It's also. trashed. I mean, it's filled with human.

feces, waste. Inside that room, they find 16 people. 16 children, ranging in ages, the. youngest being 18 months old, which is. just a year and a half old, to the. oldest being 18 years old. They're. covered in human waste with insect. bites, scratch marks on them. They're. all cramped in a space 12 by 12. Just to. give you an idea, it is smaller than the. size of a standard parking spot at your. local grocery store, which is typically.

like a 9 by 18, sometimes 9 by 20 ft. space. 12 by 12 is smaller than that. >> That's crazy. >> Investigators, they rushed to get all 16. children out of this house as safely as. possible. First to the hospital. Some. have to be flown by medical helicopters. to local level one trauma centers. And. it should be noted that authorities have. said repeatedly, [music]. had they come a day or two later, someone could have died in that house. >> I I think if they would have waited. another 24 hours, uh there was a very. high probability that uh we'd be dealing.

with uh with a with a death or or. multiple deaths. uh of the these children. >> After safely taking all the 16 children. into state care, they arrest every. single adult in that house. 73-year-old Gary Ciders Senior, 67-year-old Christina Lynn Ciders, 36-year-old Gary Ciders Junior, and. 33-year-old Elizabeth Ciders. Four. adults. So, just to give you the family. tree. Gary Senior and Christina are. married.

>> Mhm. >> They have a son, Gary Junior, who. marries a woman named Elizabeth Ciders. But when they were married, it she was. not a woman. She was 15 when they got. married, but more on that in a second. So, all four adults are arrested. They're charged with 16 counts of felony. child endangerment. And at first, the. speculation online was that this house. of horrors, that's what it's been dubbed. online, like a lot of previous cases. that have similar characteristics, but. it must have been some sort of human. trafficking ring. Otherwise, why would. there be 16 children crammed into this. small room? Like it doesn't make any.

sense. Ohio authorities have come out to. dispel the rumors and ease some of the. tension. They state that this is not a. case of human trafficking, even in the. slightest, that there is no danger to. the community or to society at large. [music] So, what is happening? Maybe the. neighbors have an idea? The next door neighbor to the side of. her says, "Well, firstly we were shocked. by it because um. they didn't even know that there were. any kids living in there to begin with. They never saw any children near the. home, in the home. They thought it was. just like four adults living there. Not. four adults and 16 children. They.

thought it was just four adults, not 20. people living inside that tiny little. house.". >> Mhm. >> It's stupid this happened in close to. Wellston in Benton County. Uh Benton County, I mean, you don't know. what's going in this world anymore. >> The only thing people could find. evidence that there were children indeed. living in that house because people are. like, "What What if the neighbors are. lying? What if the neighbors were. complicit and they didn't report this. and now they're trying to cover their. ass?" But when you look at drone footage. and photos of the house, really the only. evidence that you can see from the. outside and not really is like this.

abandoned, broken children's bike. [music] in the front lawn. But it looks abandoned. And then in like. the brush, the grass, there is a. children's book called Jonathan James. and the What If Monster, which is. actually a pretty good book about a. little green monster that whispers. negative, fear-based questions into the. main character's ear to hold him back. with self-doubt. But it looks um brand. new. It doesn't even look red. And inside the. house, when the door is open, there. seems to be a grimy high chair that also. doesn't look used at all. But it's.

grimy. The investigator says, "These. folks were pretty good at hiding those. kids." The Attorney General of Ohio. says, >> Uh I didn't actually go into the room. where the. where I just looked uh through through. the door. I was just. I can still smell. I can't get the. smell. I I cannot get the smell. off me or away from me uh right now. >> The reported ages of the children are. 18, 16, 15, 14, 13, 11, 10, 8, 6, 5, two. 4-year-olds, a set of twins, two.

2-year-old twins, and two 18-month-old. twins. 16 kids in a. >> Three twins back-to-back? >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Back-to-back. In this tiny little room, and people have made these like. kind of like a graphic of 16 children. laying in a 12 by 12-ft room. If they. all laid down, they wouldn't be able to. sleep. It just doesn't make any sense. >> It felt like we shouldn't try to sit. down. >> It got stuffy. It got, you know, crowded. We didn't know what to do with.

our arms, and we were all trying to just. really be in the space and just think. about what to kind of do and say. >> Another neighbor says, "Kids, adults, he didn't even know anybody was. living in that house, period. He thought. the house was abandoned. He says, 'It's. wild that so many people were in that. house. I mean, there was no movement or. sound. Honestly, the house seemed. abandoned, and that was a shock because. we had never seen or heard anything from. that house.'" "To me, it seemed like. they had them locked in there because I. never saw a child in that yard. Or the. people that was just in court, like that.

was the first time I've seen them.". So, this is not a case of human. trafficking. Why were the authorities. there in this seemingly. abandoned-looking house, anyway? Did. someone notice the kids and call the. police? Weirdly enough, authorities have. been very evasive about this question. No one has confirmed why they were out. there in the first place, but it is. believed that the police were. investigating a case of indecent. exposure where Gary Jr., so [music] the. younger one, >> Mhm. >> 36 years old, was allegedly indecently. exposing himself.

According to court records, Gary Jr. is. accused of exposing himself outside of. his home to people other than those in. his household on May 23rd, May 27th, May. 29th, and May 31st. >> What? >> So, just to reiterate, as of right now, the authorities won't confirm that. that's what they were investigating that. day, but the warrant for the indecency. charge was issued on June 30th, [music]. 2026, which is the day that they go to. the house. >> Oh, okay. >> haven't confirmed it. So, there are. other rumors like floating around of why. the investigators were at the house in.

the first place. But one forensic. psychology researcher does state, "When. I see indecent exposure, it usually sets. off a red flag in my head. In addition. to intimate partner violence, I wouldn't. be surprised if we saw sexual abuse. >> [music]. >> Sexual abuse is also a tool to maintain. power over a victim in an intimate. partner violence relationship. I mean, this case looks like systems both for. survivor support and offender. accountability. Ultimately, the children. had to pay the price.". One of the big questions in this case is. who are the children? Like, who are the.

parents of the children? Elizabeth. Snyder's attorney has come out to say. that all 16 children are hers, but there. are speculations online, which I'm going. to get into, but he states that all the. children are Elizabeth Snyder's and Gary. Jr.'s, which would make Gary Sr. and. Christina Lynn the grandparents, Gary. Jr. and Elizabeth the parents of all 16. children. That's what the attorney is. saying. >> Mhm. >> November 30th of 2022, [music]. so years ago, Elizabeth and Gary Jr. do.

have. two extra children, two more children. that were not found [music] in the. house. At Riverside Hospital, Elizabeth. gives birth to twins, Bailey Lee and. Faithly Snyders. They were born at 24. weeks gestation, so they're really. premature, and the twins were born with. a condition where their faces and their. chest are. fused together in the womb, and they also share vital organs. They. are conjoined. That is the more common. way that people are conjoined is chest.

and face, but typically that condition. has a mortality rate exceeding 80% for. cases where the twins are unseparated, there's nearly a 100% death rate. >> Woah. >> They were also born extremely premature. and passed the same day of natural. causes in [music] the hospital. There. were a lot of rumors circulating online. that these children ended up dying in. the house or they died under suspicious. circumstances. That doesn't necessarily. seem to be the case. [music].

They did pass in the hospital and their. death certificate does list it as. natural causes. But the timeline of this is kind of. enlightening. I'm not exactly sure what. it reveals, but it is shocking. If all. 16 children are Elizabeth's, that means. she's had four sets of twins starting. from 2022 to now. There's a lot of. children. The longest gap between. Elizabeth having children, and again, this is if they are all hers, is about 2. years in between children, in between. pregnancies. The shortest gap is closer. to 11 months.

We actually have no clue in total how. many children Elizabeth has had because. you have the twins that passed away in. the hospital and there are circulating. rumors and speculations that Elizabeth. had another child when she was 13 years. old that passed away. So, we don't know. how many times she's given birth. And from then on has just kept having. more children. And that begs the. entirely new question of like, why? Literally, why? If these are all Gary Jr. and. Elizabeth's children, why have more. children? If you're not going to take. care of them, why have them? What are. the children even living off of? What.

are they eating? Remember the vegetable. oil? There have been a lot of theories about. the vegetable oil that they would. purchase frequently, regularly at the. Dollar General store with a jug of. water. There are two theories of the alleged. repeated purchases. The first theory is. that that is what the children were. consuming, vegetable oil. I will say. that vegetable oil is typically a part. of famine relief kits, but there is. usually grain included as well. So, you're cooking with a lot of the oil. Vegetable oil specifically has high.

calorie density and it's fortified with. vitamin A, D, E, and K. And it's also. softer and easier for malnourished. infants and small children to digest. compared to soy oil, corn oil, other. oils. it's a bit softer on the stomach. So, could they have been feeding the. children vegetable oil? It's very hard. to say. There have been reports that the family. also frequented a food bank regularly to. pick up food, so maybe they were. cooking, although looking at like the. alleged photos of the house, I don't. think they were really doing any. cooking. But, maybe they were using the.

oil to fortify and calorie up some of. the other food that they were getting at. the food bank. It's unclear. I do think. it would be a hard task to get enough. food bank to feed 20 people. So, maybe it is food, but maybe it's. not. Another theory, or it could maybe. be a double use case, which some people. have said vegetable oil is a home remedy. for getting rid of lice, which I can. imagine is a problem in the household. Some netizens have pointed out that in. the mugshots, Elizabeth's hair looks.

like it's just caked in oil and grease. Was she using it in her hair to get rid. of lice? That seems like a very strange. prolonged treatment. Like, maybe you buy. vegetable oil once to try to get rid of. lice, and then you go to other tactics. if it doesn't work, but to continuously. do that for who knows, weeks, months at. a time? And there is a risk, by the way, like please don't do this at home, because there is a risk that when you. coat your hair with the vegetable oil, it actually coats the lice eggs and. preserves them, keeping them safe to. hatch.

>> Oh. >> Ultimately, as of right now, as of. filming this, we don't really know what. the vegetable oil was for. We also don't. know how the children have been living, what they were eating, how they're still. alive. In a press conference, the Vinton County. Sheriff states, >> Most of our livestock was kept in better. conditions than the children. Um it was extremely. uh. high presence, I'm sure, of bacterial. and human. >> [clears throat]. >> uh feces. Uh it was a just a disgusting.

scene. >> Investigators are not yet fully able to. even go into the house and further. investigate due to the deplorable. conditions. It hasn't even been deemed. safe. The Attorney General of Ohio, I. >> [sighs and gasps]. >> I don't know what this man was thinking. I will say he has said some incredibly. problematic things when discussing this. case. He says, "We didn't know that. there were going to be 16 kids in. there.". >> Uh it really looked third world. Uh it's. the type of thing that we're not used to. seeing here in America. >> Which is not only deeply offensive. I do.

think it's also incorrect. He keeps. making comparisons to what he calls. third world countries or what we should. better call developing nations. There. are loads of people that live in. impoverished situations in developing. nations who treat their kids to the best. of their abilities. >> Yeah. And then we we were talking as a. group uh about uh some of the evidence. we looked at today uh where where they. actually discovered the kids and and. found the kids. And it it really it's.

not that different than those old. commercials you see of like kids in. Africa, like just where they're covered. in bugs and and squatting and and had. that like distant look in in their eyes. >> It's terrible. I mean, it's absolutely. terrible. And again, we've got to make. sure the kids are safe. >> sorry. Who is talking right now? >> The Attorney General of Ohio. >> Oh. >> Yeah. >> Huh. >> Yeah, I don't know what this man is. saying. Okay, we got to make sure that. they're placed in good solid therapeutic.

placements. >> Some of these children couldn't even. speak. They looked like almost feral. animals. It was It was terrible. So so. when we're talking reading and writing. and education, we're talking a a whole. 'nother level of of expectations here. >> I do think that there is probably an. intensity of emotion to try and convey. to the general public of what they're. dealing with as well as the residents of. Ohio so that they know that there's. going to be a lot of state care that. needs to be poured into the 16 children, but I do think comparing victims to. feral animals is.

just not the best. comparison to make at all. But speaking. of heinous conditions, there have been a. lot of AI videos and photos circulating. of this house. You see cages. Investigators have come out to say there. were no cages. You see children being. like locked in boxes, in cardboard. boxes. Like there's just a lot of weird. AI stuff. >> Uh there were pictures that the kids. were in cages, that they were taped. shut, their mouths is whatever. I don't. understand why people put stuff like.

this on. It's not truthful, but I can't. stop it and all I can do is shrug my. shoulders and say, "Why are we doing. this to this. particularly to these victims?" Because. they're going to be tarnished by this. for a long part of their lives. >> But there's also a lot of very realistic. videos circulating of people who are. filming themselves, technically, if this. is real, breaking and entering and. trespassing a crime scene. So you can see people who have gone out. to the house and they're filming the. outside of the house. It does very much.

look like the Saylors' residence. They. go inside and just based off of the. photos that we've seen taken from. outside the house when the doors were. open and we can kind of peer inside, it. does seem like it is real. I can't. verify it. And also, I will note that it. is illegal. Law enforcement have not. verified or authorized any images of the. house, so I don't know how a lot of. these people are publishing this type of. media, but law enforcement has warned. that people entering the property. without permission could be committing. criminal trespassing. So just be wary of.

that when you're out there looking. online. >> [music]. >> In New York City, a former judge is. found dead. And if it were anybody else, it might seem like a very normal case of. maybe he overdosed, maybe it was an. accidental fall. He collapses in his. mansion in New York City. This is the. former judge. His body slides down his. entire staircase until it comes to a. stop and he ends up taking his last. breath. Once his body is found, Alice.

Black, who is a rookie FBI agent, is. assigned to the death investigation. She's like had a whole career as a. homicide detective in the NYPD. She was. actually attacked, beaten, and then. ended up in the hospital. Afterwards, she was essentially shunned from the. NYPD, essentially excommunicated from. the force, and her next best gig was a. desk job for the FBI. So, this is the. case that she's assigned to. Her. experience is pretty clear when she. arrives at the scene because she spots.

these claw marks on the bottom of the. bathroom door that match the victim's. swollen and raw fingers. She also. notices the track marks in his arm. It's. an overdose, yes. But, the victim is. clearly not an addict. The scene was. purposely staged by the victim's killer. The scene also matches a prior death. case that Alice Black has on file. Alice. makes the connection. Both staged. overdoses, both men who hold power in. different ways, and of course, like the. killer. She thinks the killer is going.

to be the same person. In Hulu's new. series, Furious, we're actually. introduced to the killer, to Katherine, our female serial killer who already has. her eyes on her next victim, her third. victim. As Alice pieces together the. investigation, we get to see exactly how. finely tuned and deliberate Katherine is. killing. She is completely in control. She snakes her way into her third. victim's life, but it's very clear this. is not her first time meeting him. Her. victim is also picking up on this, but.

he can't exactly place where he's seen. her before. He really doesn't have any. sort of idea. This case does not go as. planned. An unexpected challenge forces. her hand and it scares her so badly she. begins to lose focus. The second episode. of the show Furious crescendoes with. this and the very last frame is so. haunting I was completely hooked. The. twist, the pace, it is exactly what. makes Furious, Hulu's new thriller. series, so addictive. And just Catherine. starting to slip and Alice is closing in. using the killer's own secrets, her own.

hidden past she's tried desperately to. shed in order to like close in on the. killer. It's just such a tangled mess. and just when you think you know why, when Alice thinks she knows why. Catherine is doing this, Catherine's MO. changes in a way that violates. everything that we think that she stands. for, who we thought she was, why she's. killing in the first place. It goes. against it all. Furious premieres July. 27th on Hulu and Hulu on Disney Plus.

As of right now, all four adults have. been charged, like I said, with 16. counts of felony child endangerment. Bond was initially set at $300,000 for. all four individuals, which is not the. case anymore. But first, let's get into. what we know about the four first. Elizabeth Siders, the 33-year-old, the. alleged mother, is the one that a lot of. people have opinions about online. She. is the alleged mother of all 16 children. and netizens have started pinpointing.

out that her demeanor in the virtual. court hearing was not what they were. expecting. I guess people going in, they. were comparing this case a lot to the. Turpin case where the parents were, I. don't want to say that these parents are. not similar, but I think they were. expecting a very evil demeanor. I think. they were going in expecting a cruel, heartless mother who wanted to abuse her. children, perhaps for fun, perhaps for. her own sake of pleasure, we don't know, right? But instead, they see the court. hearing and they see a woman who looks a. little bit more confused more than. anything, like she looks very dejected.

and confused. And netizens have noticed. a mark on her left arm. It looks like a. ligature mark. So, the mark on her left arm does seem. too high up to be a mark from handcuffs. And it seems like it's prominently on. just one arm. I don't see it matching on. the other arm. It's unclear if this is a. ligature mark or when it was where she. got it. Like it it's just. Netizens are a little bit skeptical of. the mark. People have also further dug. deeper into her past. There are pictures.

of Elizabeth from before she married. Gary Jr. And I think it's gone viral. because it's just so jarring to see the. difference in the way she looks. >> Mhm. >> She looks like a very normal person. And. I don't know if that's an offensive word. to use, but she looks incredibly normal. She looks well-adjusted. She looks like. a typical teenager. And then you see her. mugshot. And yeah, 15 years has passed, but it just doesn't make sense how she. got set on this trajectory of life. They. look like two completely different.

people. In addition to that, according. to records, Elizabeth and Gary Jr. were. married when Elizabeth was just 15 years. old and Gary Jr. was 18 years old. Elizabeth's family have also come out on. Facebook to allege that Gary Jr. started. isolating Elizabeth from them when they. got married when she was 15, which it's. believed that they had to go out of. state to legally get married. Marriage. records show that Elizabeth being 15, Gary being 18, that would not be legal. in the state of Ohio. But it is in the. next state over in West Virginia, which. is where they went to file their. marriage license.

>> God, that's crazy. >> And 2 months after they give birth to a. child. One politician from West Virginia. who helped pass a bill banning child. marriages in West Virginia states, West. Virginia was one of the only states in. the country that didn't have a floor for. the marriage at all. There were records. in the past 20 years. 20 years. Like not. 100 years ago, not 200 years ago, 20. years of children as low as 8 years old. being married to grown adults. People in. their 50s, 60s. Allegedly, one of her. brothers, Jeremy Russell, this is.

Elizabeth's brother, alleged brother, has posted on Facebook, "My sister just. wrapped her life up." I'm not entirely. sure what that means. I don't know if it. means like her life is over now that. she's facing these charges, but he says, "Due to indoctrination, it is 100% real. 20 kids and younger than me, the math. equals immature piece of man. involved. I met this dude a couple. months ago, shook my hand like a baby. would, super soft hands, definitely. never worked a day in his life. I should. have took him out that night. It's been. 15 years, you lost touch with your. family, followed another, and look what.

happened. >> Oh, he's he's also bashing the sister, you're saying? >> Yeah. >> And he say he met Gary Jr. a couple. months ago? >> Yeah. >> Like just recently? >> Mhm. >> Did he say he knew or didn't know the. kids? >> It seems like he's insinuating he didn't. know that they had that many kids. A lot. of the relatives have come out and. they've stated that they knew that they. had kids, but they didn't know exactly. how many. >> That's a pretty wild statement to say. though. >> Yeah, how do you not know? Like even my. relatives that I don't talk to, I have a. general idea, pretty firm idea actually.

of how many children they have. Yeah, it. is odd. There is though a huge debate on. whether or not Elizabeth, because she. was married at 15 years old and had her. first child. It's actually alleged that. she had her very first child or gave. birth to her very first child when she. was 13. That child did not end up making. it. The question is, was she groomed and. kept almost as some sort of breeding. machine, some sort of breeder? How much. is she a victim in all of this? How much. is she a perpetrator? Which side note, all four defendants have been assigned.

public defenders. Elizabeth's attorney. has been incredibly outspoken in this. entire case, and some might even say. like maybe a little too outspoken. He. states in an interview that when he went. to go talk to Elizabeth, he didn't. really know what he was walking into. with this case. Like he just I'm sure he. googled it and it's bad, but he says. that when he walked in there, he doesn't. know what he was expecting, but he sees. Elizabeth, and he describes her as being. very timid and exhausted. >> I asked her if she had seen any of the. coverage that has.

been online for the better part of a day. now. She hasn't. She does not know how the. home, the conditions, the investigation. is being described. And I chose not to share. all of those details with her at this. point because she does seem so fragile. The person that I met with though is not. someone who comes across as pure evil. >> All the defense attorneys have taken a. very strong, seemingly a strong disliking towards the.

prosecutors describing this case as. {quote} pure evil. >> Mhm. >> Evil requires malice and the person that. I saw there, Elizabeth, she doesn't have. that in her eyes. >> He says the thing that shocked him the. most is when the very first questions. that she asked him was, are the kids. okay? When can I see the kids? Do you. know anything about where they are? >> Usually when people are in jail, they. ask, can you get me out of here? When. can I get out? So, I think that was. telling. >> Which a lot of people are saying like, well, the bar is so low. Like that's a.

little bit of a. people might agree that Elizabeth is a. victim in her own sense and perhaps a. perpetrator in a different sense to the. children. But I guess um. I guess that statement was just kind of. a little like, what? >> Mhm. >> Elizabeth's attorney has filed a request. for the judge to lower Elizabeth's bond, which has initially been set at. $300,000. The argument being that. {quote} the defendant is a 33-year-old. mother with no known criminal history. There's been no indication that the. defendant has been anything but.

cooperative with law enforcement since. the initiation of this case. The. attorney argues that she's not a danger. to the community. She's not a risk to. herself. She's not a risk to the. children because all 16 children have. been removed by the state. The attorney. continues, through conversations with. counsel, the defendant maintains that. her principal desire is to reunite with. her children. She understands that. reunification of any sort is an. impossibility if she does not appear. before this court. >> So, did Elizabeth's attorney say.

anything about if she's a victim? Did. they point fingers at. >> Yes, he said that Elizabeth does not see. herself as a victim, but he's still. investigating the prosecutors are still. investigating. He's kind of hinting to. the fact that he believes that she is. >> Mhm. >> Does that mean that she should get away. with no charges? I don't know, right? Like I don't know if that's what he's. insinuating, but he does state that he. feels the $300,000 bond is excessive and. it violates the 8th Amendment. So, the.

8th Amendment protection is against. excessive bail, but it's interesting. because he doesn't ask to lower the. bond. He asks for a recognizance bond. So, >> What is that? >> It just like no bond. >> Oh. >> Yeah. He argues that the investigators. themselves have documented this home. being in extreme poverty. So, he's like, "I mean, how do you expect her to come. up with $300,000? That's not even in the. realm of possibility." One person. comments about Elizabeth and her motion. to be released, "What if she gets.

pregnant while she's out on bond?". >> By who? >> But what if she does? I mean, she's. gotten pregnant so many times. Why has. she gotten pregnant? We don't know if. someone has been forcing it upon her. We. don't know if this is a choice that she. willingly makes to get pregnant. What if. she goes out on bond and gets pregnant? That would be yet another child brought. into this world to be neglected and. abused. I guess they're arguing, "Forget. everything else.". >> Yeah, yeah. >> Like what if she gets pregnant? A lot of. other people who are a bit more. sympathetic to Elizabeth are saying that.

I they don't think that she should be. let out on bond just because. jail might actually be good for her. >> Her living condition is. >> Yeah. >> pretty. >> Yeah. >> dire, you know, like. >> Not in the sense of like she needs Well, she probably does need a lot of mental. health care as well, but just the. facilities is probably an upgrade from. the house that they were living in. Others have no sympathy. I will say. there are a group of people who. genuinely don't think sympathy is. warranted in this case. So, I would say.

I would break it up into a few different. camps. I think there is one camp who. sees Elizabeth as part of the victims. So, they see her kind of as part of the. 16 children. They think that maybe she. was restrained and forcibly impregnated. all those times. They don't know, but. they think that something weird must. have happened in order for her to. subject herself to this life. They think. that she is a victim through and. through. Then you have a group in the. middle where they think that she was a. victim, she was clearly groomed in the.

beginning, but maybe. maybe somewhere along the way the lines. between victim and perpetrator are. getting a little bit blurry and she. still had some duty to protect her 16. children. And there were still moments. where she was at a hospital where she. could have alerted some authorities if. there were any abuse ongoing. Then you. have a group of people who say, "It. doesn't matter if she started as a. victim. At the end of the day, there are. 16 victims that she neglected." And they. say, quote, "She smelled them every day.

as they laid near their feces. She heard. their hunger cries. She saw the insects. and roaches crawling on them. She saw. their ignored tears. She didn't care. Her bond should not be revoked." Which, speaking of, there are rumors. circulating and some are saying that. they have inside sources that have. confirmed Elizabeth is pregnant in. custody. That when they took her in, she. was pregnant. This has not been proven. This has not been confirmed by any. authorities and I don't know how these. inside sources would be able to. I mean, is that not like a HIPAA. violation? It's kind of crazy, but.

that's the rumor going on. Elizabeth's attorney states. >> Uh I have previously stated that she. does not necessarily portray herself as. a victim, but the investigation, also. the investigation of my office, is still. walked on. >> He says, "I think this is a case. more so of isolation than a case of. evil. And I think there's an important. distinction here." So, this is the part. where I feel like maybe the lawyer needs. to stop doing some interviews. I think. dispelling rumors or even advocating for.

your client are all really great things, but I think some of the arguments he. makes is kind of like the Attorney. General of Ohio where it's like, I don't. know why you said that and now you're. making people oppose you for no reason. So, he's saying things like. he's insinuating this is more of a case. of poverty than it is neglect. And it. has a lot of people riled up because. they're like, no, I grew up impoverished. or some people are saying, no, I have. children and I went through a time where. I didn't have any money and I never. treated any child like that. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So, it's just a it's a very um tricky.

situation I think he's finding himself. in. >> Not the best approach. >> Yeah, and he says, quote, because if. that's all you know and you have to. think, you know, someone at 15 years old. doesn't have a whole lot doesn't know a. whole lot about being an adult, about. being a mother, about being a wife. That's been your world view for the past. 17, 18 years, you get shaped by that. And he continues to emphasize this is. maybe more so about isolation than it is. about evil. He states, I don't think. we've seen any evidence to prove or to.

suggest that the children were locked or. forced to remain in that 12 by 12 room. He says about Elizabeth being pregnant. so frequently. >> So, what she's told me repeatedly is. that she and Gary wanted a big family. I. don't know if they wanted a family that. was this big, but they repeatedly said. uh she's repeatedly said to me that she. wanted a big family. She said that kids. are a gift from God. >> He says he was told by Elizabeth that. some of the older kids had phones and. their own social media. He said that it.

just doesn't jive with the way the case. has been described to the public. He. says it's his understanding that the. kids can communicate and there's nothing. to suggest that they were anything like, quote, feral kids, that term that is. being used in the media. To which one. that is in comments, the kids had social. media, but the oldest couldn't even. spell their own name at 18. The police. literally said these children were. feral, and if they had arrived a later. day, some of them might have not even. made it. The math is not mathing here. Others are commenting, well, he's just. going off of what his client is telling. him. Facts speak differently. Others.

stand a little bit more in the middle. saying, this is just a lot to unpack, and the lawyer's perspective is. definitely something to consider. Inside. jokes and social media access don't. necessarily disprove confinement, but it. does paint a very different picture than. what was initially presented. >> A lot of Elizabeth's family have also. come out on Facebook to talk about how. she was a normal teenage girl until Gary. Jr. isolated her. And to make things. murkier, Gary Jr.'s side of the family. have also spoken out. So, there's a guy.

named Ronnie Fletcher. He's the. son-in-law of Gary Sr. So, this is Gary Jr.'s brother-in-law, Elizabeth's brother-in-law, I guess, by. marriage. So, Gary Jr. has a sister. >> Uh-huh. >> And Ronnie is married to that sister. >> Okay. >> He comes out to do an interview where he. states, >> I mean, we've had death threats. Um we've been told that we need to be. put in front of us the, you know, execution line of guns and, you know, killed and, you know, burned and, you. know what I mean? Uh it's been bad. Gary. and Lynn did not raise their children.

that way. They're the the four daughters. that got out are successful members of. society. We've raised our children. Our. children have, you know, college. degrees. They're, you know what I mean? Whatever. Like, you know what I mean? And and for us to be put into all this. and there's generational incest and, you. know what I mean? This is going on. generational. It's not true. >> So, there's allegations of incest and. stuff. You know, it it's not true. This. is all. into that one home. The last time we. heard from them, we gave them a car, and. it's probably close to a year now, other.

than Lynn calling us and asking us for. money or when they needed help with the. water bill or whatever. If we had it, we. sent it. If we didn't, you know, one of. the other daughters did. So, we sent. >> I'm sorry. >> Lynn is Christina Ciders, the grandma. They call her Lynn. >> Oh, she calls. >> her. Okay. >> You know, so we've done what we could. for that family at the arm's length that. they was leave keeping us at. >> Rodney reportedly states that he knew. that they had a large family, but you. know, he they thought it was probably. closer to 10 children. And he only found. out the truth when the news broke. online. He says, "If we would have known.

that it was like that in that home, we. would have done something about it. Even. if it was just go there and take the. kids ourselves or give them money." He. says his family is terrified for their. lives, and now they have to live like. hermits because everyone's upset with. them. He says, quote, "How am I supposed. to start a business in this community. when I'm being stapled to the face of. pure evil?". Rodney says about the prospect of. Elizabeth being seen as a victim. He. says, "She's willingly there at the. home. She did not have a good home life. when they got together, escaped to Gary. Sr. and Lynn's home." So, he's almost.

saying like she escaped her rough family. life to come here. And no one forced her to stay. Like that. seems to be what he's insinuating. Elizabeth's family has fought back on. their own post. Gary Sr.'s attorney has. also chimed in, who is also another public defender, but. he says, "I do know that there's been a. lot of social media postings, and family. members or just some family members have. sort of wanted to chime in with their. two cents. I take some of that in. I. take some of that in with a grain of. salt." One of the most vocal voices in.

this case thus far is Elizabeth's. alleged brother, Joey. Joey posts a lot. of videos where he's lip-syncing to. country songs, typically in a very. exaggerated fashion, and he's kind of. like up and down as if. he's riding a horse. I don't I'm not. entirely sure. It's like more akin to. when you're practicing being a pop star. in your bedroom at 3:00 a.m. than a. typical TikTok trend. It's a lot, but. also I am the last person to judge. considering my very embarrassingly. extensive digital footprint. But he does. seem like he's been out there for a. while. And that is moderately important.

considering netizens have accused him of. trying to use this case to try and get. famous. He's been quite vocal about. supporting Elizabeth. Joey will post. videos on Facebook where he's lip. syncing to the words. >> I don't give a damn about what people. think of me anymore. If you want to. judge me, >> [music]. >> do it. It no longer concerns me. >> I actually have no clue where this audio. is from. It does sound like AI Vin. Diesel. Pretty sure it's AI Vin Diesel. because when I go on TikTok and I look. up that sound, it's a bunch of Vin. Diesel clips and interviews, but the.

words don't match with his lips. I think it's AI Vin Diesel, but it could. also not be. It could be Vin Diesel, real Vin Diesel. But he writes in the. video, "Pro Elizabeth, king of gone. country.". >> King of gone country? >> Yeah, he like I don't know if that's. some he just likes calling something. gone country and. >> Okay. >> being the king of it, I suppose, right? But one of the top comments reads, "Praying for her and her children, pro. reunification." He's also making AI.

photos of himself and his sister. hugging. Like it's looks like it's outside of. jail. >> Mhm. >> Like right outside the gates of jail. Like not outside of jail, but like in. front of the jail. >> But has he said anything specific or is. just these random posts? >> It's more so random posts and he does. he does lay down some allegations. However, he it doesn't appear that he. was really present in Elizabeth's life. So it's unclear how much. >> she knows or he knows. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Okay, so he's not saying anything about. the case. It's just free Elizabeth. >> Yeah, and maybe more so like emotionally. compelling arguments, but not so many. where I'm like, "Oh, okay, that makes. sense.". >> Okay. >> But emotionally compelling in the sense. of it does make you feel very. sympathetic. >> Mhm. >> Right. But he captions things like family over. everything, blood bonds unbreakable. Joey's also fighting back to internet. users who have been posting negative.

things about him and his family. And he. writes in all caps, "Don't worry, guys. I'm not worried about what people say on. my post. They're just immature humans. that don't know their asses from holes. in the ground. A box of rocks are. smarter than half the people saying. stuff. And if you don't like me, why are. you coming to my page?" He's also. reposting a lot of supporters' threats. on Facebook that reads, "For those that. feel Elizabeth is a human being who fell. through the cracks, who spent her entire. life in a cycle of abuse, neglect, and. trauma. She is housed in Ohio Regional. Jail, scared, alone, uneducated, and. visibly emotional in a court hearing.

She needed help. She still needs help. For those of us who have compassion for. her, here's how you can help her now. You can send her a meal through I Care, and you can add money to her commissary. so she can get hygiene, snacks, paper, shower shoes, a hairbrush, things she. clearly has done without for decades.". They argue that, quote, "If she was. uncaring and malicious, she could have. left all the babies and ran, but she. stayed. She couldn't leave them, and he. just kept climbing on top of her for his. own gratification.".

There has been, I think, aside from the. very. controversial, and quite frankly, in my. opinion, should be illegal age of their marriage, I think that a lot of people have been. drawing from. the setup of society and in large. personal anecdotes. So, I couldn't find. evidence, hard evidence, of a lot of the. different arguments from all the. different camps. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. >> So, I think there is a lot of emotions.

getting involved with this case. I mean, of course, when you're dealing with 16. children who are found in that type of. condition, it makes you try to think of. how that happened. Yeah, a lot of people. are saying that she was also being used, and some people have insinuated that. perhaps Gary Jr. is the biggest abuser, and even the grandparents have been. abused. So, those there's just a lot of. circulating theories out there. Others. are posting on Facebook supporting Joey, saying things like, "I believe she was. likely the only thing standing between. those children and death. So, I think.

there's um there's a lot of nuance to. this case where you do have a large. group of people who are arguing that. this is a systematic problem where when. the system fails women at girls at the. age of 15, allows them to get married, allows them to live in these. impoverished conditions with no form of. education, of course, this is how their. life is going to turn out. And so, there. must be some level of sympathy that must. be given to these individuals. But then,

you have another group of people who. argue that there have actually been a. lot of women in far worse conditions, whether it be in this country or in. developing nations, that have the innate. internal maternal instinct to protect. their kids, no matter the cost. Because they believe that is biological. in a woman when they become a mother. So, there's been a lot of arguments on. like both sides of the coin, I guess. It. just really depends, right? But then, Joey does start kind of bringing up some.

weird stuff, okay? So, Joey starts. messaging a guy named Debojit Das, who. claims to be an ex-boyfriend of the. eldest daughter of the 16 children. I don't know. I I feel like I feel like. Joey's getting scammed. I mean, I maybe. "scammed" is not the appropriate word. >> person with a face and everything or no? >> No, they're just like messaging Joey. From what I can tell so far, I mean, that could change based on the recording. of this episode, and this could very. well be a real situation that's.

occurring, but I feel like Joey is. getting. bamboozled. Okay? >> So, this guy is talking to Joey, and. they're just instant messaging, and Joey. is telling him like, "Oh, I haven't seen. my niece since around 2008." Which is. now 2026. So, he hasn't seen his niece. since 8 years ago. He mentions that, "Cuz the last time I seen them, they. were still under five. So, this is where. it gets a little bit confusing because. the math is not mathing. This is allegedly the boyfriend of the.

eldest daughter, but she would have been. closer to 10 in 2008. I don't know. But, also like there is a point of contention. that people have of how can family. members speak so passionately when they. don't really know what's going on. But, I can understand the conviction of. wanting to defend your family members. regardless of how much time has passed. But, he writes, "I thought my nieces. didn't have internet access. Cops and. the AG, AG being the Attorney General of. Ohio, lied. I just sent this, so. something ain't right." So, he posts on. Facebook the screenshots of him talking. to an individual named Debo Jeets, who.

was allegedly one of the girls'. ex-boyfriends. And he's like, "Oh, here are my. screenshots of me dating your niece.". >> What was the screenshot, do we know? >> It's just like messages of like, "Hi.". There's like a voice note where she. says, "Hello." But, it I mean, it's very. It's hard to identify if that is even. her. These are easily fakeable messages. I'm. not saying they are faked, >> Yeah. >> but it wouldn't be difficult to fake. them.

>> Mhm. >> But, he posts on Facebook, Joey is like, "I thought my nieces couldn't read or. write. These are messages between her. and her ex-boyfriend." He says they had. to break up because of their neighbor. Mike. He sent proof of everything. The. lies need to stop. The speculation needs. to stop. Clearly, the neighbors knew. Clearly, she could read, write, and. speak. We just want the damn truth. Praying night and day for my nieces and. nephews. Yeah. So, it's just um. >> Yeah. Yeah. Just so unclear. >> Yeah, but I also think the argument. stands, but not really in the sense of I.

don't think the point of contention is. if they can read or write. I think just. the fact that they were found in those. conditions is the point. >> Yeah. >> Also, Joey has served time for. endangering children resulting in. serious physical harm to a child, felony. of the third degree. So, the court sentenced Joey Russell to. a 36-month prison term, which was the. maximum penalty for his crime. >> To who, do we know? Is it a family. member? >> Seems like it. Yeah.

A woman named Tiffany Saunders posts on. Facebook again, and it's very hard to. verify any of these Facebook posts, but. she says, "I'm making this post for the. sake of truth and truth only, but for. clarity. I'll go ahead and say this. about the situation because I'm moving. on because I have to. Lots of you know. Lynn, aka Christina Siders." So, this is. the grandmother. "Is my grandma Diana's. first cousin." Okay, this is It gets. confusing, it's not really necessary, right? She's saying that she's They're. related in that way, but she's also. related to Elizabeth Siders because her.

daughter's. Yeah, her daughter's biological father. and Elizabeth's mom are sibl- Anyway. Anyway, I think this is where people are. alleging that Elizabeth and Gary Jr. are. distant cousins. I couldn't find proof. that they are distant cousins other than. rumors and then like some very confusing. words of who's related to who, but I did. I did sit there and I worked out this. little family tree, and they are not. biologically related if this is what.

people are basing off of that allegation. from. >> Oh, I see. >> Right. But I don't know, maybe there's other. proof somewhere out there. Tiffany. continues to write, "These are some of. the pictures of Elizabeth that I took. right before or right around when her. and Gary Jr. met. She had her whole life. ahead of her. While part of me wonders. if she wasn't mentally conditioned to. think most of this was okay, the mom in. me knows it doesn't matter. There's. absolutely no excuse for dragging your. kids or any human through your BS to. this degree. In my opinion, she's guilty. to an extent simply because she is an. adult. The justice system will handle.

the situation however it sees fit. [music] I'm cool with that because, you. know, what should happen in a situation. like this? What does real justice look. like here? I don't know because that's a. decision I'm way under qualified to. make, but I feel like this also needs to. be said. Lots of people failed those. babies and they continue to fail lots of. others all over and keep the pattern. continuing by not intervening when. things aren't quite right. People all. over the USA right now keep saying, "Oh. my god, how does this even happen?" Most. people can't fathom and I really wish I. couldn't either, but here's an idea, generational poverty, deeply embedded.

trauma, mental and physical illness, systemic failure by other family and. community members all mixed into one big. horrible mess. It's nearly impossible to. escape any unhealthy situation without. the proper tools, without the proper. resources. Maybe I'm wrong to believe. this, but I think with only a couple. exceptions in this particular case, like. the tremendous amount of kids they had, actual living conditions, these poor. children were and in fact. >> [music]. >> I mean, the children were basically. hidden away in a 12 by 12 room. All the. rest of this story, there are very similar situations all.

over the area and most people turn a. blind eye to it. From the child marriage. to no education, living in unhealthy. environments and living in extreme. poverty, it's all pretty much normal to. a lot of people, I personally think. It's almost like deeply embedded for. people to turn a blind eye because. there's already they're already. struggling themselves. Or these are uncomfortable situations. and topics to think about. That has also been a huge thing where. people are saying, like, "I don't know. why Americans are so shocked right now. that this is happening in their country. when you can just go to West Virginia.

and see one of the most impoverished. states in the entire nation and see that. this is something that's happening out. in the open and it's pretty blatant.". >> Interesting. >> So, there So, I do think it's a very. nuanced conversation of how much does. poverty impact one's ability to be able. to have autonomy over the amount of. children they have, but also how to be. able to care for the children. >> Mhm. >> And how much is it malice versus oh,

this is what my parents did to raise me, so I'm going to do the same thing and I. don't know anything else or anything. better. So, I guess that is a very. nuanced conversation that's taking place. and I think depending on everybody's. socioeconomic backgrounds, people have a. lot of different stances. I do think. this is a conversation where it is. really important to. probably. face privilege when you feel like you. have a very strong negative opinion, right? I guess. >> Mhm. >> See how much that plays into it, which.

has been, you know, something people. have been talking about, but. But because still 16 children seems. beyond excessive even in those. conditions, right? It seems like an. outlier. People have been trying to find. a motive. Like was this some sort of. obsession? Was having children an. obsession for Elizabeth or Gary Jr.'s or. both? Elizabeth's attorney did say that. Elizabeth told him, "Children are a gift. from God and she loves having kids.". [music] Like was it that? Was this some. sort of like four-person cult, one-person cult, two-person cult? And.

because again, the wording "Children are. a gift from God" is very specific and. Elizabeth's older brother believes that. she was, quote, "indoctrinated," which. is again a very specific word. Or were. they getting something else of having. the children? Primarily, the big motive question was. state care. So, the prosecutor responds to a. question from a reporter about whether. or not the family was receiving state. benefits for everyone, which again would. answer a very big motive question. >> To my knowledge, uh only two the two. elderly. the two oldest, Mr. Grandma and Grandpa,

were the only ones I'm aware of that. were receiving benefits at that time at. the time of this incident. >> So, they're not using the children to. get some sort of state-funded. assistance. So, why did they keep having kids? We really don't know. I mean, none of. the children were ever enrolled in. schools and I think that this case has. been kind of a reckoning on a lot of. state-funded systems. So, the first. question was a lot of the children seem. to have been born in local area. hospitals, which is what Elizabeth's. attorney has alleged, which means if. Elizabeth is going to hospitals and. giving birth to these children, was.

there not any point any medical. intervention should have stepped in? So, that seems to be a big question of like. was there failure there? Then there's. another question of why is Ohio so. relaxed with home school laws? Back. then, the law the law did get changed. A. bill was passed. So, apparently back. then, you would have to tell. administrators of a school what you were. doing to home school your children. Like. you would have to give them like a whole. blueprint of your whole plan to educate. your kids because they can't just be. running around not being able to read. and write. That was the whole objective, right? There's a lot of paperwork that.

gets processed. A lot of people get. involved. Now apparently, you can walk. in and say I'm going to home school my. kid and that's it. >> That's crazy. >> You don't have to tell them what you're. doing. I guess this is the whole like. it's my kid. I don't know the. argument, okay? I really don't know. Yeah. So, the question is like were they. really that good at hiding the children. like the attorney attorney general of. Ohio states or is the system just like. not really doing its job? >> Mhm. >> One resident does recall seeing at least.

some of the kids once at a local yard. sale and she did in fact notice that. they appeared dirty, but she just. assumed like the dirt and grime on them. was they had been playing outside. The. police haven't confirmed that every. single child belongs to Elizabeth and. Gary Jr. There are DNA tests being done. There are some people out there that. believe and are speculating that. older children could have given birth to. some of the younger children. This is. basically an internet rumor. A lot of. that speculation seems to stem from the. idea that they believe there is no. physical way in which Elizabeth could be. able to give birth to four sets of twins.

back to back. So, remember in 2022, she. had a set of twins that passed in the. hospital, but her last births were. allegedly four sets of twins. >> Yeah. >> And so, they're just saying like your. body is incapable of doing that. Like. that would be nearly impossible. especially in the malnourished. lack of nutrition state that Elizabeth. was probably living in. It just doesn't. make sense to them how that's possible, but authorities have not confirmed that. the children were essayed or harmed in. that way, or that there was any incest.

going on, so I just do want to make that. very clear. Elizabeth's attorney states, again, that he believes that all 16. children belong to Elizabeth. A reporter. did ask the prosecutor, "Has any testing. been done to ensure that all 16 children. belong to the same person?". He responds vaguely, "I can't address. that." Did the children have birth. certificates? The prosecutor takes a. moment and responds very carefully, >> I don't know that we have all of their. birth certificates, I may answer that. >> Were they all registered with the state? >> Again, a little bit beyond what I can. tell I answered you what I knew what I.

know at this point. >> So, things could have changed. It seems. like they did locate most of the birth. certificates, but one reporter asked the. prosecutors, "Do you know of any. children services safety checks. conducted at that home? Were there any. mandatory reportings, especially by. hospitals or medical officials?". >> Yeah, I can't address that, sorry. >> As of filming this, of the four adults, one of them has already been released. Gary Sr., the grandpa, has since pled. not guilty by reason of insanity. He is. demanding an evaluate like I said, his. attorney is demanding an evaluation to. determine whether or not he is competent.

to stand trial. And the reason that he. was released is not even because of his. potential incompetency, it's the fact. that July 8th, they were scheduled for a. preliminary hearing, and as they were. transporting Gary Sr. to the courthouse. from the jail, he falls. They take him. to the hospital because he fell, they. run a bunch of tests on him, and they. realize, "Holy he's got so many. serious medical conditions that require. specialized care." Which is basically. the only reason they let Gary Sr. out on.

bond. The prosecutor on this case says. to the community very bluntly, practically, and I don't know if you. folks know this or not, but when. defendants are housed in county jails, it is the county's responsibility to pay. for the medical care. Prisons are for. defendants who have been convicted, then. the state of Ohio has to pay for it. But. he's still an innocent man that has not. been convicted yet, so the county was. going to be on the hook for his medical. care. Vinton County, also one of the. smallest rural counties in Ohio. >> Mr. Sayder Sr. has a serious medical.

condition. that requires specialized care. His medical care could potentially. bankrupt the Vinton County. >> The prosecutor states, "We were not. going to put that burden also on our. local taxpayers, so it was agreed that. we would do a recognizance bond so that. he could get the medical treatment that. he the doctors say that he needs and it. won't cost the county that money. If. he's released from the hospital, he will. then be equipped with a GPS monitor. The. medical care is going to be paid for. probably on a federal level, I would. imagine.

I don't that's what I think would. happen. I'm not too well versed in like. the pipeline of medical care for. individuals who have. no access. It seems like it would be taken care of. on a federal level, but I'm not entirely. sure. His attorney states, "He's. entitled to his presumption of innocence. and that his guilt must be proven beyond. a reasonable doubt. The state needs to. prove that they may, you know, the facts. may bear out or they may not that he may. be found not guilty or not competent or. himself a victim. So until we all know. what's going on, I would ask the viewers.

to take a breath, take a step back and. let the process play out." Which. speaking of, a gag order is now in place. for the prosecutors, which is not um. it's not like entirely uncommon for. high-profile cases, but essentially the. defense attorneys have filed stating. that there have been lots of statements. made by the prosecution that seem to. be prejudicing the right to a fair. trial. Basically saying is pure evil, calling it the house of horrors, calling.

them just like feral children, all of. these things they think is not good. We. are just going to have to wait to see. how this plays out in court, which by. the way, I do think maybe the attorney. general of Ohio should stop talking. about this case cuz of some of the. problematic remarks that he's made, but. that's an opinion, right? I guess we. will just have to see how this plays out. in court whether all of them are going. to. I don't know what's going to happen. honestly. There is maybe an argument. that potentially black mold is in the. house that seems to be an angle that. could be played. Black mold poisoning.

can be similar to dementia and cause. brain fog sudden mood swings depression. anxiety insomnia chronic fatigue. headaches. I don't know. Some people believe that the grandma was. taking care of the kids and when her. health declined it caused this entire. thing to go down. But all we know right. now is each [music] charge carries a. minimum sentence of two to eight years. in prison with a maximum sentence of 12. years. So potential maximum sentence on. all 16 counts could end up being 192. years for each defendant.

State social workers say they've. received dozens of calls from local. residents in the county offering. donations offering to help with. long-term care for the children. They just passed they just approved $1. million to support the children. They're. estimating the care to be around 100 to. 250 dollars per day per child for the. rest of this fiscal year. But I I just. don't know like how much that will. impact. I think that there probably will.

need to be a lot more resources poured. into the 16 children if the conditions. are as bad and as. extreme as the prosecutors are. describing them to be which I tend to. agree with just based off the pictures. that I saw of the outside of the house. looking in. But what are your thoughts on this case? That is so far what we have on the 16. children's case in Ohio the house of. horrors. What are your thoughts? Let me. know in the comments and I will see you. in the next one. Be safe. >> [music].