13 Year Old Realizes His TWIN Brother Is A Killer In The Middle Of Interrogation

Bada bing, bada boom. >> In Berlin, there is a very fancy. department store, and I'm going to. butcher the name, and I'm never going to. be able to face a German person with. dignity, so I'm just going to call it. Berlin's Barney, Berlin's Sachs. You. walk in, and most [music] things are. going to be in the cases, the locked. glass cabinets. The lighting is always. pristine, so everything looks so sparkly. in there. It's like the trademark of. every expensive jewelry store or. department store. The lighting is so. good. You can make a plastic candy. wrapper look like some naturally mined.

yellow diamond just sparkling in the. light. That's this type of department. store. And they don't just carry. jewelry. They have very expensive. watches. The ones where they say, "Oh, sorry. That's only for exhibition." And. then you have to buy like 10 other. things before they let you buy the one. watch that you wanted in the first. place. There's a lot of money sitting in. those cases. So much so that the store. employs motion detectors. They have an. extensive security system for the entire. place, which is the premise of every. good heist movie, every good heist TV. show. The plan is simple. Get in, grab.

the best stuff, get out, and don't get. caught. Plot detail that must be. included is the doors are all censored, impenetrable. However, there will be a. skylight. You can just unscrew the. nails, remove the skylight, throw in a. rope, slide down it just like the three. masked men in Berlin will slide down the. rope to partake in a shop after midnight. special where they get the entire store. to themselves. It sounds like a movie. This is very much real life. They take. $6.5 million worth of fine jewelry and.

watches. Instead of leaving behind a. credit card to finance their very rush. transaction, if you will, or their. Afterpay details, [music] they leave. behind a singular glove. And inside that. glove is a singular bead of sweat. DNA. evidence. Authorities run the DNA. They. get a hit. It's too easy. Of course, it. is. Right. It links back to someone with. a criminal record for theft and fraud. Times two. What do you mean times two? Two counts of fraud. Two counts of. theft. What do you mean? No. The DNA.

links back to two people with criminal. records for theft and fraud. [music] So, what did they just change gloves in. between and they both sweat into it? How's that possible? It's DNA. Two. people don't have the same DNA. Unless. you're an identical twin. Two 27year-old brothers, H and A, are. arrested based off of the fact that the. DNA in the glove links back to them. So, here's what we know. Three mass men, one. glove with DNA belonging to one of the. brothers. Only one of the twins could be.

involved or both of the twins could be. involved. Neither of them are willing to. talk or cooperate, which means it really. could be either or. [music] And that's. all the evidence they have. Nothing. else. >> This is a real heist. >> Yeah. In Berlin. So like what do you do? You. >> How do we know it's three people? >> They saw three mass men. >> on the camera. >> Yeah. But only DNA for one person was. left behind. And they don't know which. twin. They don't know if both the twins. are involved. if maybe the two twins are. two of the three people or if only one. of the brothers was involved. So what do.

you do? Do you throw both in jail just. in case? You can't. >> Wait, so DNA cannot identify which twin? No, never. >> You can now, but it takes sometimes a. million dollars. >> Wow. >> And there's only a handful of companies. in the world that can handle that. Both. brothers, the twins, even though at. least one of them was most likely. involved in the heist, both of them have. to be released because prosecutors. cannot prove beyond a reasonable doubt. which twin or both were involved in this. case. Within the week, both twins are.

released before the case can even go to. trial. And the court writes in a. statement, "From the evidence we have, we can deduce that at least one of the. brothers took part in the crime, but it. has not been possible to determine which. one." [music] And the diamond heist in. Berlin goes unsolved. Identical twins. develop from a single fertilized egg. So. that splits into two embryos. So they. essentially share the same nuclear DNA. And while it's not exactly the same, it. might as well be. Okay. A normal DNA. test done in the event of a crime.

usually scans about 20 fixed markers. >> Mhm. >> Because that's how different everyone's. DNA is. And that still takes multiple. days. 20 spots in the DNA and compare. If you're trying to find the difference. between identical twins, because they do. have differences, you would have to. sequence the entire 3 billion base. genome at ultra high depth. One. sequencing expert describes it like. this. Imagine the human genome consists. of a 3 billion letter code. If the body. is growing or an embryo is developing,

then all three billion letters have to. be copied. But during the copying. process in the body, there are typos. happening. Identical twins have the same. DNA except sometimes [music]. maybe about eight typos or a few cells. will split and evolve differently here. and there. But again, it's on average. about eight differences across the whole. 3 billion. >> genome. >> So on paper, 3 billion should be. identical except the eight typos. >> Yes, there's only a handful of labs that. are capable of running this level of a.

test. And even if it's done, it costs. taxpayers hundreds of thousands of. dollars, maybe up to the 7 figure mark. And a lot of the time, it can't even be. really used in court because of how. novel it is. It's very easy for defense. attorneys to get it thrown out or for. them to confuse the jury with it. Is it. going to get easier in the future? Probably. Is it going to get cheaper in. the future? Probably. But right now, is. it a problem? I think so. Especially. when in the United States you have a. case in Ohio of a woman who lives alone.

getting essayed and murdered in her own. room in her own bed. And the DNA left at. the scene [music] it traces back to a. set of identical twins. Two 13-year-old. boys are the main suspects of a rape and. murder. But which twin is the guilty. one? And how are investigators going to. figure out which one is the killer? This. is the case of the cart twins.

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We'd also like to thank you guys for. your continued support. As always, full. show notes are available at. rottenopodcast.com. There is a brief mention of suspected. essay and some quotes or statements may. have been condensed for brevity. Let's. get into it. Becca and Kyle are no. longer together, which is probably for. the best. Okay. By all accounts, it. appears the two are much healthier when. they're focused on co-parenting their. [music] twin sons. You've got Hunter. Cart, who is 2 minutes older than Levi. Cart. They're identical twins, but they.

look kind of more like fraternal twins. than anything, which is just an. observation. It's not like all identical. twins have to dress the same or look the. same, but it's just an observation. Hunter and Levi clearly have their own. styles, their own personalities, their. own interests. They're two completely. different people. Hunter has longer. hair, almost down to his shoulders. And. he seems, at least from the initial body. cam footage, he seems to have a much. more softer demeanor. Just based off of. that, he seems like the type of student. who would sit next to you if you're. alone during lunch period. Meanwhile,

Levi, who often goes by Lewis these. days, has more of the skater kid look. He looks a little bit scrawnier. He does. have long hair, but not in the way that. Hunter does. It looks like a skater kid. >> Why does Levi go by Lewis? >> He just decided he wanted to go by Lewis. one day. So, everyone's been calling him. Lewis. So, if you hear Lewis and Levi. interchangeably in the body cam footage, it's because they're talking about Levi, >> but it's not legally changed, right? >> No, no, not at all. Now, he's got long. hair, sharper jawline. He also appears.

to have a soft, quiet demeanor, but in a. different way from Hunter. It He seems. like the type that maybe he wouldn't sit. next to you if you're sitting alone in. the lunchroom because he too is probably. sitting alone is the energy that you. get. Could I be wrong? Probably. Okay, we don't know that much about them yet. other than a match to their DNA was. found in a woman's bed, Denise's bed, where she was killed. But Becca and. Kyle, the cart twins parents, they don't. know that. Becca and Kyle are just. concerned about how this ongoing police.

investigation in their neighborhood is. going to impact their twin sons. Kyle. texts Becca, "I was telling Levi not to. assume the worst, but I knew it was a. bad sign when there's just that many. cops with no lights on all standing. around. usually means they found a body. and they're holding the site down until. forensics and investigators arrive. Was. she killed at the house? They're talking. about one of the neighbors on the street. who was just killed in her house. And as. much as the parents want to try and. shield the teenage twins away from. everything going on on the street, it's. very hard to do that when you live what.

50 ft away and the police are knocking. at your door trying to get answers. They're knocking on everyone's door. The. police investigation into what happened. to 64year-old Denise has been both very. straightforward and complicated all at. the same time. Denise's brother, Daryl, is the one that finds Denise. It's. Sunday morning. They had lunch plans. She's not picking up. 11:11 a.m. Daryl. is messaging her. Are you skipping. lunch? Daryl doesn't know it yet, but. she's already gone. Within the hour, he.

comes to her house. He walks up to the. front door and he goes to knock on the. door and it just gets pushed open when. he knocks. The front door is unlocked. He walks inside and he sees his sister. inside laying on her bed. Her pajamas. are ripped exposing her chest. Her. pajama pants are ripped. She has blood. in between her legs. The blankets are. covering her face. And on top of the. blanket, there's like a porcelain. figurine. Like you know those. collectibles that you see at those. antique shops that have almost like a. vintage feel to it, but it's an angel.

figurine and it's placed on top of the. blanket on top of her head. So her face. is covered with this blanket and there's. this angel figurine on top of the. blanket and Denise is not moving. The. crime scene is just really odd. Even. when the police are walking in for the. first time with their body cameras on, they're really confused by the scene. because yes, of course, the angel. figurine is confusing. But there's also. other things like they asked if maybe. the brother Daryl had covered her up. because he didn't want the police to see. her like this, but they're like, "No,

dispatch said he was he found her like. this." There's also a bunch of cleaning. chemicals, like bottles of cleaning. chemicals and Pepto-Bismol. They noticed. like this pink liquid all over her and. it's just someone poured Pepto-Bismol on. her or maybe she drank it. They're. contemplating. The investigators are. like, "Well, maybe she drank it. We. don't know.". >> Pepto-Bismol is for um. >> acid reflex typically. So, you've got. bottles of cleaning solutions. Pepto-Bismol, cleaning chemicals dumped. on her body. And just what? Like, are. they trying to get rid of biological. evidence? There's also blood splatter on.

the walls. The blood leads all the way. out of her bedroom. On the floor, there's a trail of blood to the back. door. And then from the back door to the. very back gate of the backyard fence, there's blood there, too. Whoever did. this though didn't leave any. fingerprints. So, they're wearing. gloves. Police start scouting the. neighborhood. They're going to door to. door. They're asking residents, "Can you. take your shirt off because they found. blood, hair, and DNA under Denise's. nails?" And they're like, "We just want. to see if you have some scratch marks.". So, you just see body cam of neighbors.

taking their shirt offs and showing them. getting DNA swabbed. And of course, while investigators are checking for. scratch marks or anything suspicious, residents are also sharing what they. think happened. Okay. One neighbor. reports it might be Dave. Dave, you. know. Okay, so it's around midnight. She'd been sitting out on her porch, one. of the neighbors. She's with a friend. And they're chitchatting. And they see. this balding white man with blonde hair, medium build, Dave. Okay. His name is. Dave. And he's drunk. He's drunk and.

walking around the neighborhood near. Denise's property. That was Saturday. night. >> Is he a neighbor? >> Yeah, he lives in the neighborhood. They. go investigate Dave. They don't think. it's Dave. One neighbor asked the. officers, "You guys think it's random?". The officer asks him what he's heard. Well, from what I heard, you know, a guy. uh down in that new house over there, a. couple others. I was out here having my. cigarette and I hear uh I think the. brother did it and they're going to. arrest him in a couple days, like 3. days. I'm like, "What?" So, they think.

the brother did it. Any reason why you. would think that? >> The brother of the victim? >> Yeah, Daryl. I don't know. That's just. the speculation right now. So, he's just. saying he's smoking a cigarette. He. overheard neighbor saying the brother. did it. The police do get sidetracked. into a mini investigation into Daryl, the brother. He's the one that called. 911. He's the one that found his. sister's body. He's relatively calm on. the 911 call, but not in a particularly. suspicious way. >> She's got her head covered with a. pillow, her legs exposed, and she's been.

stripped naked, and it might be some. blood. >> To me, it just sounds like he's trying. to relay information as quickly as. possible. But something that's very. interesting to officers is that when the. police originally walked in, they don't. rule out the possibility of self-exit. The Pepto-Bismol, the cleaning supplies, they find some prescription medication. in her house. I mean, it could be. possible that she self-exited trying to. ingest these chemicals. The blood could. have been hers because she could have. been throwing up blood from the. chemicals. They don't know yet. The. investigators, they have no clue. There's a bit of blood splatter, but.

again, maybe it's hers. Furthermore, one. of the first things Daryl tells the. officers is that he believes his sister. was essayed. How can he be so sure? They. didn't think that when they first walked. in. Also, Daryl never performed any sort. of life-saving measure to try and save. his sister. He says he walked in and. quote, "Well, she was laying on the bed. with her legs spread and it looked like. there was blood and you know on her head. and stuff on top looked like someone. tried to smother her and she looked like. they ripped her thing open." And I. yelled at her and I didn't see no. movement from her whatsoever. I just.

turned around and I walked out and I'm. like, I I I can't. He doesn't try CPR. He doesn't try to. save her. Not that I think it would have. made a difference, but for those. reasons, the police do investigate. Daryl. And it doesn't help that when. they reach Daryl's home, it's a bit of a. hoarder situation. And he explains to. the officers almost in an embarrassed. way that his mom had recently passed and. his sister had passed, so his home had. gotten a little worse from the stress. They check his body for scratches and.

they check his DNA and he is very. quickly ruled out as a suspect, but it. doesn't stop the neighbors from. whispering on their porches and pointing. their fingers. One neighbor particularly. does not care who did it. They just want. the police to make sure they get. vengeance. And they quote say, "Find. that fool and he needs to die.". >> Find that fool and he needs to die. >> Yeah. Um the. >> police are like this is a intense. neighborhood. They go to the next store. and this time they're right across the. street from Denise's residence. So,

they've actually knocked on this door. prior, but nobody was home. So, they're. coming back around after they've done. their little, you know, and a woman with. bright pink hair opens the door. Becca, she's the mother of twin boys, Hunter. and Levi Cart. She talks with the. investigators outside and she mentions. the day that they found Denise was. actually like a really busy day. So, it's been like a week since that. and. she's just saying, "Oh my god, like that. day was really intense for us." She. explains that when all the ambulances. had come onto the street Sunday morning, they weren't even home. Actually, Sunday.

morning at like 6:00 a.m. we had to run. to the ER because my son, the cat, I. guess, was sleeping on his face and they. startled each other in the dark and it. scratched him. And so we were worried. that it could be bad or infected. It. wasn't a big deal, but it was just like. traumatizing. And I was like, "Everybody. get in the car.". Cat scratches. Okay, that's very. interesting. >> So, the the police immediately alarms. going off, right? >> Cat scratches in the middle of the. night. The investigators want to talk to. Hunter and Levi Cart just to just ask.

them if they've seen anything weird or. strange outside. And Becca is a bit. hesitant. She's just worried about how. the news is going to be delivered to. them. She doesn't she doesn't want them. super traumatized. They're only 13. She. was thinking about ways to break the. news to them, but they seemed really. stressed out this week and just there's. been a lot going on in the house. She. mentions multiple times to investigators. she would rather not use the M word. murder if we could. >> We both have kids and we both know. >> Okay. Like the M word is scary. >> We're not going to give them any details.

like that. Especially if you don't want. to. >> Do they have to talk to you? Is that. like a. >> No, we just figured this would be. >> cooperative. I just. >> No, not at all. >> You know, she's worried about how it's. going to impact them. They're just in. the seventh grade. They've been. homeschooled, but also they're we're. about to move out of state, so there's. just a lot going on. The investigators. quickly find out that the twins, they. are 13 and they are very young, but they. both do like watching true crime. documentaries, but that doesn't make. them somehow better candidates to. finding out that a particularly cruel.

and random crime just took place across. the street. So, they decide that they're. going to be a little sensitive with it. The twins, maybe it's shock or just. their outwardly reactions, they take it. pretty well. I mean, I guess as well as. you would hope two 13-year-olds take it. Levi Cart is just listening to the news. of what happened to Denise, their. neighbor. He nods his head up and down. He's got his arms crossed. He's more in. shock and how it relates to him. He's. [music] like, you know, this random day. we had to wake up trying to do photos. and then it's this.

>> What does that mean? Do photos. >> Yeah. What does that mean? Right. So, the Cart family explains, okay, so we're. actually like a week or two of moving. out of state to Long Beach, California. And so we actually had an appointment. that day, Sunday, for the real estate. agent to come and take photos of the. house so that we could put it up on the. market. So we've been really busy like. all weekend trying to make the house. super clean and just get ready for the. move. And that's the day that Denise has. found. So it it was chaotic. Meanwhile, Hunter has more true crime investigative. approach. Hunter responds, "I don't know. how many case details you can put out,

but like what do you guys suspect or. what do you guys know about what. happened?" He's asking questions. The. investigators aren't about to debrief a. 13-year-old kid about their. investigation. They just respond, "Well, I can tell you this. It shouldn't have. happened, and we need to figure out why. it happened so that hopefully we can. keep it from happening again because we. hate to miss on some evidence and if. you've watched enough TV, you know, we. don't want to be those cops that forgot. to do this or look into that." Hunter's. like, "I've watched plenty TV." because. we'd hate to miss some evidence. And if.

you've watched any TV, we don't want to. be those cops that forgot to do this or. look into that. >> We have watched plenty. You know what I. mean? They love watching the true. crimes. >> Becca mentions, you know, like they're. both really into true crime. And Levi. shakes his head. No. But Hunter. interjects. Me and my brother, especially my brother, know a lot. I. would say definitely my brother knows a. lot about just the police in general. >> Me and my brother, especially my brother. know a lot. Definitely. My brother knows. a lot about um just the police in. general. Um.

>> he wants to go into the Marines. >> Levi just looks over at Hunter, kind of. looking at him like, "What do you say? >> What What do you say?" And their mother. informs the investigators. Levi wants to. go into the Marines when he gets older. Oh, nice. Nice. Well, recruitment is. always here, so the police are just. going along with it. >> But they are very suspicious. >> Yes, because of the cat scratches. I do. not believe there's in any world where. Becca has any sort of inkling or belief. that one of her twins has anything to do. with what happened to Denise across the. street. So my next question is.

completely unrelated and hypothetical. for parents out there. If you have more. than one kid and you get a call from. jail, does your brain immediately jump. to one kid over the other where it's. like, "Oh, it's probably my second kid. because they're a little bit more wild. or it's probably my first kid because. they've had runins with the law before.". Like, do you immediately think of one. child before you hear the voice on the. phone? When the investigators talked to. the cart twins, it's been about a week. since Denise's murder. And the. investigators, they start asking him. about the past weekend, the weekend that.

Denise is killed. What were you doing? Do you remember anything? Investigators. asked the twins separately. So, they're. still in the cart house. They haven't. gone to the police station or anything. They're just standing in the living. room. And Hunter is like, "Well, that. weekend was a blur because um so Hunter. was really sick." Hunter is explaining. like, "I was throwing up for a few days. straight. I couldn't even leave the. bathroom." And Levi had to go to the ER. because the cat scratched his face. pretty badly. Interesting. And he says, "Yeah, that. whole weekend was a blur." They asked. Levi the same question. And this is.

again separately. And he more or less. the same thing. And he says, "That. weekend was a blur.". >> That whole day was just kind of a blur. for everybody. >> I don't know. A lot of it's a blur. >> It's an interesting word choice. like. not one that I would often use to. describe my weekends, but like maybe. that's just me. The investigators are a. little puzzled by it. I think they get. the twins together. Now they're both. sitting on the living room couch while. the investigators are telling them about. what happened across the street. And.

maybe in an attempt to reassure the. investigators they can handle this type. of tense. information, Hunter mentions that the. two of them are much more mature than. the other kids their age, especially. Levi. Me and Louis have both agreed that him. [clears throat] especially is a lot more. mature than most kids our age, >> which I would think normally seems like. a compliment, but Levi looks a little. confused where this is all coming from, why Hunter keeps yapping. Hunter even. brings up Levi's injuries. He has other. scars on his back from another surgery.

that he did, and now he has the new one. on his nose from the cat to add to it. And Hunter asks Levi in front of the. officers, "How does it feel to have. three scars?" And Levi is just staring. at his twin brother dead pan in the face. for a long time, not really answering. Eventually, the investigators want to. leave, but not before collecting both of. the twins DNA cheek swabs for DNA. testing. And it comes back a match for. both. But that doesn't mean that they're. both guilty. But because they're.

identical twins, they share the same STR. markers, like I said, which means the. police now need to find out if one or. both of the twins are guilty. So when it. came back a match, do we see how they. reacted to that or we don't have that. information. >> We're going to see. Oh, we do. Okay. >> Yeah. So the investigators, they go back. to the house, but they don't immediately. say any of this. Their whole objective. is to get the twins and Becca to the. police station where they can separate. the twins, record their reactions, and. start interrogating them. Okay. So. they've got like a very tricky balancing.

game that they have to do of trying to. get them there without officially. detaining them. >> because they can't. So it's this weird. back and forth of like let's it's just. you have to Okay, so the DNA could point. to both the twins. You can't just arrest. both preemptively because it's one or. the other. All of this is very tricky. and it's even trickier because they're. both minors. So they come up with this. profoundly dumb plan. the investigators. We're just going to go to the house and. see if they'll come back to the police.

station. I don't even think they had a. plan. They go back to the heart house. and the family, Becca, Hunter, and Levi, are walking back in with a bag of canes, raising canes, and their drinks. They're. just about to sit and eat when the. police ask them, "Why don't you guys. come to the police station? Like, do you. mind coming with me to talk about what. happened across the street?" And Becca's. like, "Sure." But then as she's getting. ready to go, Becca's like, "Wait, wait. Why do we have to go to the police. station? like last time you guys just. came to the house and you were talking. to us like why do we have to go to the. police station and she even asked do we. need to be getting lawyers or something?

I'm feeling nervous about this. >> You're welcome to call an attorney. >> Do we need to be getting lawyers or. something? I'm feeling. >> what's nervous about this. I don't. >> You're welcome to call an attorney. >> One of the twins, Levi, seemingly agrees. with his mom and he's asking also, do we. have to go? Like is this a right now. thing or is it like a we would like you? You don't have to do anything. I suppose. >> like do we have to go? Is this like a right now thing or.

>> We would like to. >> It would make Yeah, >> you don't have to do anything. I suppose. >> the whole energy is so tense in the. house. [music]. You don't have to go, but also like I'm. just going to stand here as a police. officer and not leave. So now it feels. like you kind of have to go, doesn't it? Becca points out, "Okay, I don't know. Oh, I I feel uncomfortable. And even in my dumbest days, [music] I. would not think this is a smart plan for. the cops. But they say, "How about we.

get out of here and we kind of explain. what's going on?". >> I don't know. I feel uncomfortable. I'm. How about we we get there, we can. explain kind of what's going on, give. you some more info. You can always, you. know. [music]. >> Okay. >> So, they're like, "Let's get out of the. house so I can explain what's going on. Can you explain what's going on before. we head out of here? Do you mind if we. do that outside?" The investigators get. the entire family onto the front lawn. and they're all awkwardly standing there. still holding their raising canes food. and their drinks. Like Hunter is holding. two red like soda cups and they're just.

outside and it's weird and it's. confusing and the officer Yeah. The. officer tells them, "Well, let's go to. the police station so we don't have to. like stand in the rain and talk about. it." So you went from inside the house. and say, "Let's go outside and talk. about it. Now it's raining outside. It's. drizzling." And then he's like, "Well, why stand out in the rain when we can go. to the police station?" So, they were. playing by the air. No plan. >> No plan. >> Just let me just move them one inch at a. time. >> Yes. Exactly. I mean, again, I'm not. saying the police aren't doing their. jobs, but was this really the best that. they could come up with? It's just a.

little odd. He says that he has some. pictures he wants to show them and talk. to them about certain things. Becca's. like, "Are we under suspicion or. something? We just want to talk to you. I think you guys could help us clear a. lot of things up around here." [music]. Eventually, Becca agrees. She gets. placed in one car, the twins in the back. of another squad car. And of course, the. cameras are rolling. Perhaps the. authorities were hoping for some kind of. Isabelle Valdez Lois Libert situation. where they just start yapping in the cop. car about how they committed a crime. But they do not get that. But the energy. with the twins is weird. They're in the.

back of the police car still holding. their food and Hunter says, "I mean, it's probably more questions." So, I. mean, there's nothing we can't talk. about. Levi's like, "Yeah, I don't know. what's going on." Neither do I. Levi. mentions this is all very very. unexpected. I. >> mean, but there's nothing that we cannot. talk about. >> Yeah, I don't know what's going on. >> Neither do I. >> It's all very, very unexpected.

>> His voice doesn't sound surprised. though, or like he was not expecting it. It just sounds like just weird. Hunter. has a slightly more normal response and. he mentions my anxiety levels are. through the roof. Yeah, I don't know why. there's so many police vehicles either. Yeah, that's definitely what scared me. seeing all those cops immediately pull. up. Like one person's there, you know, didn't see that other cop pulled up, right? Yeah. I was just like, what's the. reason for that? I don't know. Maybe. it's an intimidation tactic, I guess,

but why would they need to intimidate. us, right? I don't know why there's so many. like police vehicles either. >> Yeah, that's definitely what scared me. >> Seeing all the cops immediately pull up. Like one person's there, didn't see that. other cop got pull up and then. >> I was just like, [clears throat] why are. they What's the reason? >> I don't know. Maybe it's an intimidation. tactic, >> I guess. But what I don't know why they. try intimidate us intimidate us, right? >> Levi saying that.

>> Yeah. It's just a weird interaction. because I feel like either you're not. talking about the case or maybe you're. like, "God, I was hungry and I just. wanted to eat. Like, what's wrong with. the cops or you're just quiet or you're. talking about something else?". >> Mhm. >> When they get to the police station, the. twins are separated from Becca. They. come in through a completely separate. entrance, which seems to be a bold and. deliberate choice by the investigators, which I think is kind of questionable. Becca can sense what they're doing, and. she does not like it one bit. So, she. was hesitant at the house. She was a. little bit agreeable on the front lawn,

but still hesitant. Once she gets to the. police station, they bring her into a. separate room and she's like, "Oh, no." Okay, they're trying to distract. her. They keep trying to get her to eat. her raising canes. And she's like, "I. don't want food. I want to get us our. lawyer because she's like, I did not. think that I was going to come to this. police station and not see my kids. I'm. supposed to be with my kids. They're 13. years old. Why are you talking to my. kids without me? >> I don't want food. I want. >> to. >> go ahead. >> get also our lawyer and have my children.

stop being questioned. >> without a lawyer present immediately. >> What are they telling her exactly? >> She's like, oh, we just want to talk to. you guys. We just want to talk to. everyone. >> And she's like, where are my kids? >> Yeah. She's like, well, you can't talk. to them without me there because I'm. their mother and they're minors. >> Yeah. >> She's like, I want to get us our lawyer. and have my children stop being. questioned without the lawyer being. present immediately. So, let's make that. happen. I think she is rightfully. protecting her underage sons. Like none. of this is. >> out of the norm. Like this is actually. what a good mom should do. Now the.

police, however, they try to stall and. their stalling methods are beyond me. One of the officers compliments Becca's. slippers saying, "They look so comfy. Where'd you buy them?" And Becca's like, "Yeah, they are comfy." And she's like, "Really? I know you're being friendly, but I need to know that my children are. not being questioned and that they have. a lawyer. You didn't let us know that we. were being detained. >> Those are so comfy. >> They are comfy. >> Amazon. >> Not. Uh, yeah. >> Are they Amazon?

>> Yeah. >> I find the best things on Amazon. People. are so against it. >> Really? I know you're being friendly. I. need to know that my children are not. being questioned and that they have a. lawyer because this is. >> You're not being detained. You're free. to go. You didn't let us know that you. were detaining my children. They're free. to leave. right now. They're allowed to leave. right now. Let's go right now. Right. now. You said they're allowed to leave. Yes or no? You cannot take them. >> You didn't let us know that we were.

being detained. >> You're not being detained. You're free. to go. >> No, you didn't let us know that you were. detaining my children. >> They're free to leave. >> You did not. Right now. They're allowed. to leave right now. >> Let's go right now. Right now. You said they're allowed to. leave. Yes or no? You cannot take them. >> Okay. I I don't know what the police are. saying at this point. They also take. Becca's phone so she can't even contact. her lawyer, which all of this really the. investigators are working hard to create. a migraine inducing headache for.

prosecutors later. Like the DA's office. is not going to like any of this. And. technically, I do believe in Ohio. there's no absolute rule requiring a. parent or lawyer to be present before. police question a minor. But the way. that they're handling this, I would. imagine could invite some legal. murkiness to say the least. They have. Becca in that one room of the police. station. Hunter and Levi are separated. in different rooms and they are now. going to start questioning the boys. separately simultaneously to get their. stories. Levi is obviously going to be. the main focus mainly because of his.

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styrofoam container in front of him, a. red soda cup with a straw in. >> So they're just holding this bag and not. eating at all the whole time. >> Yeah. So they separate like Levi is the. one holding the bag. So they're getting. him to open check which one is his. because some people got the cola, some. people got the fries. They bring the. styrofoam containers to the other two. So everyone has their food in front of. them. And the investigators keep. encouraging all three of them, eat, eat. >> And they're just like, why am I here? Why am I not eating at home? Is any of. them eating?

>> Levi is eating a little bit in the. beginning, but yeah, they all stop cuz. they're like, I don't know. I also think. that they just start eating because the. police keep telling them to eat, >> but Becca is not eating. She's like, where the are my kids? >> Levi says in the interview that there's. a bit of context to the whole thing with. the cat scratches. Okay, so the family. is moving to Long Beach, California in. about a week, which means they're. packing, they're boxing everything up, right? quote, "You know, cats get weird if you. know that when you're trying to move and.

we had just moved his playset so that. you know he was he probably thought. like, oh, something's happening." The. officers want to know more about the cat. incident and Levi explains, "Well, okay, so the cat Marshmallow sleeps with my. mom. Sometimes my brother, not really. with me, so he woke up, you know, and. Marshmallow is laying on Levi's chest. and I woke up and I was like, "What's. going on?" on. I was freaked out because. I like felt something on me and I had. had sleep paralysis before. So, I was. kind of like freaky. And then I tried to. touch him and he got obviously scared.

He was like, "What's going on?". Probably. So, he started scratching at. me. Started scratching my face and he. Well, he first started scratching at my. arms because um I was like trying to get. him off of me because I didn't know what. was going on. So, like he scratched my. face. You couldn't really see it. You. can't see it anymore, but yeah, he like. scratched my face here. And then uh he. scratched me with his biggest claw, which we've been knowing we needed to. cut for a while now, for a long time. Like he scratched me on the nose like. right here really really hard because we. both like extremely spooked each other. Just like a lot of scratching going on.

But now that he thinks about it, Levi. questions maybe the cat heard something. outside cuz that was the night that. Denise was killed across the street. So. like maybe the cat was like extra. spooked cuz animals can sense stuff. Like that's kind of what he's hinting. at. >> What does the scratch look like on his. face though? Now it he had stitches. He. had five stitches on his nose in the. hospital. It's been about a week since. then and the scratch has healed pretty. well. But he's saying there were other. scratches and they seem to be primarily. gone. Like it seems mostly gone.

>> Okay. So the face like doesn't look very. >> it's like a like a scar on the nose, but. it's not wow. Oh my gosh, you got messed. up by the cat. It's just like a nose. now. Maybe even he woke up or he was up. and he got freaked out because of he. heard a sound. >> Uh that none of us did and then he went. and got on me. I mean he sleeps with my. mom sometimes or my brother, not really.

with me, >> right? >> Um so yeah, he just like he woke me up. Felt like he was like right here. Well, you the gist. Um, so I was like, you. know, I woke up and I was like, what's. going on? I was freaked out because I. felt something on me. >> Uh, and I I have had sleep paralysis. before. Uh, so it was kind of freaky. >> Uh, and then I like tried to touch him. and he like he got obviously scared. He.

was like, "What's going on?" Probably. Uh, so he started scratching at me. Uh, he started scratching my face and he. well first he started scratching like my. arms cuz I was like trying to like get. him off of me cuz I didn't know what was. going on. >> Um, so he like scratched my face. You. can't couldn't really see it. You can't. see it anymore. But yeah, he like. scratched my face. Uh, you can see this. here. And then he scr I think the his. biggest claw which [music] we've been.

knowing we needed to cut them for a. while, a long time. Uh he like scratched. me on my nose like right here really. really [music] hard because we both. extremely spooked each other. >> And so maybe Marshmallow heard what was. going on across the street, got freaked. out, and scratched Levi. They're like, "That's a pretty deep cut for a cat. named Marshmallow." I mean, to be fair. though, Levi's mom does explain that she. felt really bad about her son getting. scratched by Marshmallow because they.

all knew that they had to cut. Marshmallow's nails for a while, but. they hadn't gotten around to it. And. investigators, they need to make sure. that they're not so distracted by Levi's. cat scratches that they miss other. details that might be important, like. the fact that Levi has a twin brother, Hunter, whose DNA was also technically. found at the scene because they share. the same DNA. Levi is an overexplainer. He likes to go ind depth explaining. everything that's happened to him with. the cat. But Hunter in his own way is. also a talker. He's sitting in the.

interview room with the two officers. He's eating his raising canes just. telling the police about his life story. He's talking about how they're about to. turn 14 next month. And he mentions when. it was mom's birthday, me and Levi were. playfighting and I pushed him and he. ended up breaking his hip. Okay, interesting. At some point, he realizes. that the questions are starting to feel. a bit more serious and he asks, "Can I. stop eating?" because they keep telling. him to eat. So, I feel like he was he. felt obligated to eat and he's like, "Can I just stop eating, please?". >> Yeah. >> He doesn't feel comfortable. He also. reiterates that he doesn't feel.

pressured to answer any questions. And. he says, "I mean, of course, I feel a. little pressure, but I don't feel like I. have to sign these papers. I just know. more suspicion is put on me if I don't. answer any questions.". >> Just so you know, I don't feel pressured. doing this. I feel a little pressured. Uh but I don't feel like I have to sign. those. >> Okay. I just know it's more suspicion is. put on me if I don't answer any. questions. So, >> he immediately starts the interview. saying, "Can I say something? I want I. want to say I want to let you guys know.

I know this is more so about me, but. just letting you know my brother um. every time I talk about it with him. because I somewhat have a I wouldn't say. morbid curiosity, but I went online and. looked up the news for it after you guys. came in." So, they're like, "Oh, interesting. You looked on Google what. happened across the street?" You know, which in his defense, wouldn't everybody. look on Google, right? But it's. important exactly what he looked up. It's one thing to Google murder on Blank. Street. It's another thing to Google, how do police find DNA at the scene? Composite sketch of killer on Blank. Street. Right? So, the investigators ask. him, can you show me what you looked up?

Do you have your phone on you? No, I. don't have my phone on me. And even if I. did, literally the day a few hours after. they came in, um, or actually, I don't. remember if it was the day before or. what, but my charger broke in my phone. and it stopped working. And then we were. able to get the piece of the charger. that was broken in out. And now it's. charging fine, but the battery is. basically fried. So unless I have it. plugged in 24/7, it's going to turn off. And if I try to enter my passcode or. turn on the lock screen or anything like. that, it's going to turn off. How'd that. happen? I'm not sure. Um, for a while my.

phone has had a crack in it because I. used to have some anger issues. Um, for. a while now my phone has had a crack in. it because I used to have some anger. issues. Um, honestly, it this kind of sucks cuz it really. seems like obviously uh I looked into. it, I thought about it, my mom thought. about it, and Louis thought about it. That day he got scratches on his face. because of that day. He had to go to the. hospital and then he decided to go to. dad's house. So then he wasn't at the in. the neighborhood. It all seemed like a.

very wide coincidence, you know, cuz of. course his cat was face his [music] fat. his face was scratched by a cat. So, he's almost like working through his. thoughts out loud, which is like the. last thing you want to do in front of. the police, but he's like, "No, my phone. broke." And but like I also know that. now that makes everything suspicious. because I thought about it. Clearly, my. mom was thinking about it. Levi was. thinking about it. And then I know that. like I don't think my brother would do. it, but like I know that he has the. scratches on his face which are kind of. weird. He also mentions that his brother. Levi calls himself a narcissist, but.

Hunter is like but I I don't really ever. think so. But it's interesting that. Hunter mentions that. >> he calls himself a narcissist. not. necessar there's a lot of words I don't. know and stuff but he I don't think he. could do something like that but at the. same time there's so much evidence. stacked up upon him so there's also. evidence that's stacked stacked up. against him that's. so when they talk about Hunter's phone. he says the phone is cracked if you open. the case it's like cracked because the.

glass is cracked because like I said I. threw it when I had some anger issues. before I used to get mad about games, like losing games, and then I would just. throw stuff because I was just getting. like really really stressed out. He says. that because of his anger issues, he. also broke his computer. Okay, interesting. The police are like, "Well, what were you doing Sunday morning? Was. he also recovering from some scratches? Did the cat attack everybody?" They ask. him about the morning that Denise's body. was found, the same morning that Levi. was in the ER for getting stitches for.

the cat scratches. and Hunter says, "So, I went to bed and then I woke up at like. 8:30, 8:50, I don't know, and my mom and. Levi were gone and I kind of freaked out. for a second and I checked my phone. because this was before my phone broke. and she was like, "Levi got the cat. scratched, so I had to go." So, we had. to go to the hospital and then I think. they I think I just sat for a while. before they got home and then my mom got. home and then that morning wait. Yeah. No. So, we went to bed. I woke up and. got those text messages and then I think.

I waited a while because. >> I don't remember if it was just mom or. it was mom and Louis that came back. home. >> So he's just like I don't really. remember. Investigators ask Hunter. Has. Marshmallow ever scratched anyone. before? Like is that why it's so crazy? No, he's never done anything like that. Does he usually sleep with Levi? No, not. usually. That's why I thought maybe he. heard something outside and wanted to. protect Levi. So Levi sleeps in the. living room. So they thought, you know,

maybe he the cat heard something, freaked out, went to the living room, and then attacks Levi. But Hunter gets. sick around this time. So after Levi. gets back from the ER from getting those. stitches, Levi actually asked to go to. his dad's house. And mom and Hunter. think that's actually a good plan. because Hunter's throwing up non-stop. He's like so sick. He's having explosive. diarrhea. He's vomiting at the same. time. And that lasts multiple days. And. whatever Hunter has is probably. contagious. And with the commotion. across the street, it's just a lot going. on. Hunter remembers when he was in the. bathroom, he does recall seeing some.

blood on the sink. >> There was like blood in the bathroom. from where he had fallen or anything. like that. >> Oh yeah. Um there was like. uh blood on the sink and stuff. >> Okay. >> But um like mom tried to clean it up, but there was still a little bit blood. after. So, we just saw blood after. because I started puking and then we. spent a long time in the bathroom and. then she was like, "Oh my god, Louis got. blood everywhere. I I forgot to clean up. some of this." I was like, "Okay." So, and then it's I think it's gone now.

>> Okay. >> Um, >> was it like a lot of blood or a little. bit of blood? >> Little bit of blood. It's interesting. because the overexlaining can come off. suspicious for both parties, but I do. feel like it's understandable when you. realize they're both true crime. documentary watchers. And this is. actually something that I thought about. in a lot more recent cases because I had. this like run-in with a police officer. recently. Like nothing was happening. There was no like case or anything. But. I just remember I was like looking for. where the body cam was on his body while. I was talking to him about something.

completely unrelated because it's just. interesting now that I watch so much. body cam footage. Now I feel like I'm. looking for body cam cameras because. it's something that I think about and. maybe the same thing is happening to. Hunter and Levi because Hunter even. states to the police like also me. stuttering has nothing to do with like. you guys being here just so you know. He's trying to explain that he just. stutters. So now he's like going into. this overexlaining territory of like no. no but like I'm trying to be open with. you but then even saying I'm trying to. be open with you seems like I'm not. trying to be open. Like it's he's. overexlaining selfizing already. He even.

admits to the police that he watches a. lot of body cam videos. Also, he goes. back to explain, you know, like the. whole thing of like Levi calling himself. a narcissist. So, he mentions it and. he's like, "Well, I don't think so." And. he he explains, he's like, "Levi is just. the one who always says that he, you. know, he's always saying that he's this. thing when he hasn't been diagnosed with. anything like it." Like saying he's. probably slightly manipulative, like. stuff like that just because his trauma. has made him feel this type of way. Honestly, it's really upsetting for me. like he knows all the um I don't know I.

don't want to call it disorders because. I don't think that's what it is like but. sociopath it's obviously a very wide. range of things but from sociopaths to. narcissist personality disorders to. stuff like that basically he knows a lot. about them and like what they mean I. think it's because he does a lot of. research into it because he thinks or he. knows that he's slightly manipulative. because he's you know he has trauma and. he's very much so expressive and we talk. about all of our feelings and I don't. know like we're all going through a lot.

of therapy. >> He's always saying that he's this thing. when he hasn't been diagnosed with. anything like it. He's probably slightly. manipulative, stuff like that. Um, from. sociopaths to narcissistic personality. disorder, we're all going through a lot. of a lot of therapy. >> So, it's almost like now he's just like. preemptively telling police things. He's. just talking a lot. >> Mhm. >> He continues later to say he's like Levi. is very very open to us about how he's. feeling, the way he feels. Like I don't. want to go in depth about it because I. don't know. Um I think I'm probably.

using the wrong word, but I guess I. don't know if it's like I'm [music]. incriminating him. I think I'm. definitely using the wrong word, but. like talking about how he has all this. trauma, especially abusive trauma when. he was a kid. He certainly has certainly. has a lot of potential to make somebody. who has the mind to do something like. that. And I know that because he's. talked about all these things. >> Well, what is happening right now? >> Yeah. Now the investigators are like, "What do you mean all these things?" I. mean, I know from him because he's told. me because he's done research about it.

on the internet, like his knowledge. about what the difference between. sociopath and the other ones and knowing. how, you know, many to kill in order to. be a serial killer [music] and you have. to kill people and stuff like that. I think it's just like he just so. happens to have a am I allowed to ask. you guys anything? Sure. Do you guys. have any suspicions? Do you guys think. he's a suspect possibly, or am I crazy? Like, is he not a suspect at all? Is.

this just normal questioning to try and. help solve some stuff? And I just seem. like a crazy person right now. >> Do you guys have any suspicions? [music]. Do you guys think he's a suspect? Am I. crazy? Is he not a suspect at all? Is Is. this just normal questioning to try to. sell help solves some stuff? And I just. seem like a crazy person right now. Is. he feeling connecting the dot in that. moment? >> It seems like from the beginning he's. just like yapping yapping and he's an. oversharer.

>> and then as he's yapping he's like. explaining well my brother would never. do this. I know he has some traumatic. incidents in his childhood. >> which also watching true crime. documentaries I know that that can make. someone more like capable of doing. something like this. So it's almost like. he's like analyzing. So, you know how people will be like, "Oh, the three trademarks of a serial. killer, the dark triad of the. personality, right?" Like, it's almost. like he studied that. And as he's. explaining Levi and why Levi could never.

do something, because I think he walked. in there thinking the police suspect. Levi because of the cat scratches. >> and it seems like he's trying to clear. his brother's name. >> But as he's talking, he's almost getting. more and more going down the rabbit. hole. >> What's his Levi's childhood trauma? Did. they explain or not really? >> Yes. So, he explained that his. grandfather on his mother's side is in. jail for heavy abuse. I believe his mom. was a victim of her own father and maybe.

other family members were victims. >> Wow. >> But it seems to be related to childhood. trauma in um probably the worst way. possible. Please just reassure him. You. don't seem like a crazy person. some of. the stuff that you said makes sense. And. I don't know, maybe this is a way for. them to just keep him talking. And. Hunter clarifies, am I sitting here. because he has those scratches on his. face and because it looks like he's a. potential suspect, or am I just here to.

like clear some things like like it has. nothing to do with him possibly being. the person who did that thing? I would. say there's inconsistencies with what we. know versus what you guys said. yesterday, and we're going to get more. information hopefully. And it's. interesting to watch because it appears. that Hunter goes through weird stages. So the first stage is just explaining. and almost like the true crime. explaining of like, I watched the body. cam footage. I know that we look. suspicious, but I'm going to tell you. why we're not suspicious. And like now. me overexlaining feels suspicious. Like.

now I'm stuttering and you think that's. suspicious. And then it goes to him. being like, I know my brother has all. the things that could make him possible, but like and then he's like, wait, am I. doing too much? Like am I what? I don't. even know why I'm here. Why are you guys. Why are we talking? >> Like he lost the plot, right? So he's. like, "What? Do you guys suspect him or. not?" Right. >> Yeah. >> And they say this vague language of. like, "Well, we're just trying to get. more information." And that's when. Hunter starts defending his twin. And. he's like, "Well, his cat scratches seem.

like cat scratches." And the cat has. been acting weird. >> Yeah, the cat was acting weird. He's. been acting weird the past few days. because we've been moving stuff around. So, it's completely understandable that. he'd freak out. is just like a very very. very needy cat. And Coco, our other cat, was a kitten when we got her. So, she. was just born for like a few weeks. But. Marshmallow was a year old. So, it's. possible he had some trauma. And that's. why he's very, very needy. And just now. he's somewhat gotten used to us after, I. don't know, like a year or two, and then. all of a sudden, we start moving stuff.

around. So, it's completely. understandable that he would freak out. But to me, it's completely. understandable that the cat attacked him. because he freaked out because he was. sleeping next to him and he woke up. And. he tells the investigators because it's. clear the investigators feel like his. twin brother had something to do with. it. Hunter tells them I don't think he. did it because like I feel he's told me. many times like he's a very open person. He doesn't have the capacity to do. something like that. >> Doesn't have the capacity to do. something like that. I don't feel he has. the capacity to do something like that. And if he did and he did impulsively he. would not be acting so oh I don't care.

afterwards. Most kids, if they killed. somebody, they would tell their parents, unless they just didn't think it. mattered at all. >> Now, interesting information to sit on. Investigators who are also in Levi's. room have a very different approach from. Hunters. It could just be that Hunter. appears to be a bit more talkative and. open to give out information without. being asked. Whereas Levi seems to give. out a lot of information, but only when. he's pressed on it. Once the officer is.

done reading Levi his Miranda rights, he. needs to clarify and make sure. 13-year-old Levi gets it. With these in. mind, do you want to have a conversation. with me? >> With these in mind, do you want to have. a conversation with me? >> Um, well, I guess it states that I can. quit having a conversation with you. I'm. not sure what this is like necessarily. about. >> Do you know what we're investigating? >> I mean, I know something happened on the. on the street across the street. across. the street in front of me, right? A.

woman was murdered, right? So, we're. trying to find out what happened. Okay, so that's what we're investigating. The. investigators ask him to walk them. through Saturday night and like the. wording is weird. Levi says they all. went to sleep. Quote, "So, we all went. to sleep and then honestly it seemed. pretty normal. >> None of us really like woke up for a. couple hours. Both of neither of them. did.". >> How does. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Why would you speak for your. >> Yeah. And then I think I think at like. 2:30, maybe 2:30 in the morning or 2,

I'm not sure in that time area, my cat. had randomly woke me up with all the. lights off, like sitting on my neck. He. says that Marshmallow is sitting on his. neck and he decides that he's going to. freak out on Levi. Levi says that he. gets scratched by the family cat. Marshmallow. He starts cleaning himself. up. He goes to the bathroom. Quote, "There was a lot of scratches on me.". >> Uh, and then I spent like 3 hours maybe. or a long time trying to like fix myself. up. >> 3 hours. >> Yeah. And to give some context, like. fixing myself up or the reason why I. didn't like ask my mom or my brother or. wake them up is because we were.

literally about to do photos that day, like family photos for the house cuz. they're going to sell the house. He. explains, "I don't want to be this kid. that's constantly waking people up or. being like an annoyance when they're. trying to sleep. So, I just try to clean. myself up the best I could. I tried to. like clean up my face. He also scratched. my neck." Then, I decided to take a. shower because I was like, "That's. probably the best thing I'm going to. do." So, I took a shower and I spent. like, yeah, I guess like 30 minutes in. there, a long time, and tried to see. what was going on. And like, how do I. explain it? The shower sprayer, so like.

the handheld shower sprayer is kind of. reflective. So, I was trying to see what. was going on, and I was like, "Okay, well, holy this is really bad." He. states he's in the bathroom for 3 hours. He's showering for like 30 minutes. All. of this seems like an awfully lengthy. amount of time, but maybe it's just late. at night. He doesn't really know how. long it was. Maybe it wasn't 3 hours. Maybe it was 30 minutes. It just felt. like 3 hours. The officers ask him what. he wears to bed cuz that should also. have some cat scratches. >> M. >> I don't wear anything to bed. Nude. He.

sleeps in the living room couch. Nude. >> He sleeps in the living room. >> Yeah, he's been sleeping in the living. room recently, so he's just sleeping in. the living room nude. He says he has. some sheets and there was some blood on. his t-shirt that he uses under his. pillow. So he uses like a t-shirt as a. pillow and he has some blood on there. from when the cat scratched him. This is. all very weird. Now, back to the shower. So, he's in the shower and he explains. because of my disability as well, I used. like a shower chair. >> Usually, because of my disability as.

well, I used like a like a shower chair. I didn't use the shower chair cuz I. didn't want to make a bunch of noise and. make anybody up. >> Uh, so I ended up literally falling, fell, and like hit my head on the on the. shower hose. He says this shower chair. is outside the bathroom and he didn't. bring it in himself because I'm also not. like really strong enough to do that. So. I never do that. Is it heavy? Yeah, it's. pretty heavy. Well, not that heavy. Just. like I know it's too heavy for me to.

have enough strength to pick it up. The. police are a little confused because. like why not just tell your mom at this. point? He keeps mentioning the house. photos and the detectives are like, "Well, you're not in the house photos.". I know, but I didn't want to have to. like wake her up and have her tired or. have her be annoyed that I was getting. her up super early and it was like 2:00. 2:30. Now, by all means, it seems like. Becca is not the type of mom to be. upset. So, the bleeding kind of stops. and Levi decides to just try and eat and. watch some YouTube, but he says, "I was. doing that and as I was watching. YouTube, I was super exhausted.".

>> Super exhausted. Feeling like honestly. like cuz I barely got any sleep. I. was just like, "I don't know what to do. I know I can't, you know, go to sleep in. this state. Uh, and so I started crying. honestly kind of loud. >> He says he starts crying so loudly. That's what wakes his mom up. And it's. just interesting like his body language. to watch in there. Like he has these. he'll yawn in the middle of a sentence. and it's not a pause. It's not like he's. pausing and getting bored and yawning, which would already be alarming in a. police interrogation, but he'll just be.

talking about how he wanted to eat and. watch some TV after he cleaned himself. up. So, he's like, "I'm just going to. sit down and eat and watch some TV and. then [sighs and gasps]. and then I ate." It could be the stress. of the interrogation. Not that he's. guilty. It's just a stressful thing to. be in a crowded room with two. investigators as a 13-year-old having no. idea where the lawyer is or where your. mom is. But it's weird. At this point, it's like 5:30 a.m. He says thankfully. once he started crying, his mom came. down the stairs and was like, "Are you. okay?" He says, "No, not really." And I. was still crying and she told me not to. cry because that would make it worse.

And then something to make this. situation more funny, quote unquote, as. soon as she went in the kitchen, she. opened the cabinet and got the. band-aids. So this entire time that I. looked for band-aids for like 30. minutes, it was right there in the. kitchen. But when he gets back to the. house after going to the ER, he says. that he was super emotionally triggered. He says the cat had scratched him. He. starts seeing investigators outside, ambulances outside across the street, and he just wanted to go to his dad's. for a few days, even though that was. never part of the original schedule.

>> But you didn't know what was wrong with. Denise. >> Yeah. I just thought that it's just. crazy to It was crazy in my mind and I. started assuming, you know, like what. had happened. >> What did you think happened? I don't. know. I just thought You thought it was. a coincidence? I didn't think it was a. coincidence. I was just jumping to. conclusions. Mom was like, "She probably. just had an accident or she fell over.". And I was like, "Hopefully." I was like, "Yeah." And even this right now is. honestly starting to make me feel kind. of emotionally triggered. When you get. triggered, does it ever make you angry?

No. Just makes me sad. Sad. Or like. hyper emotional. So, it made me feel. like really gross that something else. had happened and I was already in an. emotionally triggered state. So, I kind. of felt like really sick to my stomach. and I felt really gross having to think. about what if something happened to. somebody right next to me or the house. right in front of me and it made me feel. really sad and I started crying even. worse. Hunter didn't even know what to. do. So, I decided to go upstairs so I. could try and stop thinking about it.

But, you know, I didn't like having to. think about something else was happening. so I didn't have to feel worse. It's. just weird. So he asks his dad to pick. him up so that he doesn't have to think. about something else happening to. somebody while something had happened to. him and there's just a lot of cop cars. and he stays there for probably a week. trying to feel better until he comes. back. Have you ever been in Denise's. house? Levi responds, "Neither my mom, my brother, or me have ever been in that. house or even close other than, I guess, walking distance." But he does mention.

that Hunter, his brother, would mow. lawns over the summer. But Levi isn't. sure whose lawns he mowed. At some. point, he mentions, "I heard my mom and. my brother. My brother loves true. crime." Or something. He's very. investigative. He tried to search up the. audio. I didn't hear it. Or I guess they. said that there was like a 911 call. I. guess they um or my mom said that maybe. she had been raped or that somebody said. that um it looked like she had been. raped, which in my mind doesn't really.

feel like self-defense. if it was. >> doesn't feel like self-defense. Who what. doesn't feel like self-defense? >> So, the investigators are like, "Well, we don't really know what happened to. Denise. Maybe someone went in there and. Denise attacked them." Like, maybe it. was self-defense. He's like, "Well, if she was raped, it. wasn't self-defense.". And it's just a lot of weird. conversations happening. And at some. point, the investigator says he's just. trying to wrap his brain around this. Like, the investigator is like, "I'm. just trying to wrap my brain around this.

entire case. I don't know how it. happened. There's two people there, but. I don't know how it happened. And I'm. just trying to figure it out. Levi. responds, "Could have been three people. I don't know.". >> There's two people there, but I don't. know how it happened. And I'm just. trying to figure it out. >> Could have been three people. I don't. know. >> I mean, there could have been more. people there, was there? >> I don't know. >> That's a crazy response. >> Well, I mean, yeah, there could have. been more people. You know, they can't. rule out the possibilities, but. investigators believe that there was.

only one person involved, and they need. to know which person it was. And so far, it's looking like Levi is the one. they're most suspicious of, especially. with the cat scratches, until they find. out that there could be a chance that. he's not capable of being the killer. Investigators find out that Levi has. cerebral palsy, which is a group of. movement and posture disorders. Cerebral. being the brain, and palsy being. weakness or problems with movement. So, usually this um um this forms from an.

injury in parts of the brain that. control the muscles. So, it's not from. the muscles themselves, but it's from. the brain that controls the muscles. Now, investigators have to figure out if. Levi's CP would make it so that it would. be impossible for him to carry out an. essay and murder. And there's just a lot. of people that live with CP that live. completely normal lives where they play. intense sports where they it's actually. encouraged to play sports for a lot of. people living with that condition and. they live you wouldn't even know that. they have CP. But then on the other side.

you do have people where it greatly. impacts everything that they do and it. does make it very difficult for them to. do things that an able-bodied person. would be able to do easily. So, they. found out during this interrogation or. >> Yes. And they don't know where on that. scale Levi is. Hunter and Levi's mom, Becca, is in the waiting area of the. police station. So, she's been brought. out from the room where they kept like. telling her to eat the raisin canes. They bring her out and the twins dad,

Kyle, has since joined and they're both. just wanting answers. Why can't they get. the twins? Why can't the twins come out? Why can't they get the twins a lawyer? What the hell are the investigators. talking to them about without them or. the lawyers present? When there is a. situation where identical twin DNA is. involved, the best thing investigators. can do is look for evidence that's not. DNA related. And they find it under. Denise's body. The investigators come. out to talk to Becca and Kyle and they. tell them it's not that they randomly.

targeted the twins. It's that quote, "I. don't know what in the world happened. We're not talking to him anymore. I. mean, he doesn't want to really talk. anymore. I don't know what happened. We. have a lot of other evidence, too. >> Okay. I'm I don't know what in the world. happened. I mean, I can presume. I'm trying. We He's We're not talking to. him anymore. I mean, he doesn't want to. really talk anymore. Um I don't know what happened.

>> You can keep talking. Well, we have a lot of other evidence, too. >> She says, "I I don't know." They tell. her it's not just the DNA. There's some. certain things we're going to tell you. that we have that are bad. Okay. That. watch that we showed you that belongs to. one of the twins was under her body. >> All right. That watch that we showed you. was under her body. >> What? >> Becca starts freaking out. She starts.

sobbing, alternating between putting her. head in her hands to holding her chest. She's pacing the area. She seems like. she can't sit still. She doesn't really. even know what to do with this. information, it appears. Eventually, she. asks, >> "What happens now? He's only 13. Oh my god. Oh my god. Oh my god.". >> Eventually, she's on the floor and she. even apologizes to the investigators for. being rude earlier. Out of all the.

suspects and perpetrators parents, Becca. seems like maybe one of the few that. really tried her best. If you get the. full FOIA file like we did, there is a. lot of unredacted information that I. didn't include because I don't know how. relevant it is, but Hunter talks to. investigators of how much their family. has gone through. And it does appear. that Becca has really tried to shield. her sons from anything that could have. happened. The fact that she regularly. puts them in therapy, encourages them to. talk about their feelings. They even. found her journal where she writes about.

how she's trying to parent. And by all. accounts, it seems like she genuinely is. a good parent. The fact that she's been. trying to be helpful this entire. investigation, the fact that she is. apologizing to being rude to the. investigators, which in reality, I. honestly think that she was still just. protecting her children. There's really. nothing to apologize for. She never. behaved in a way that made it feel like. she was enabling her kids or shielding. them from consequences or not. participating in the investigation. But. when she's told it's her son's DNA, his. watch, [music] and they found a piece of.

a green nitro glove at the scene and a. box of the same green nitro gloves in. his closet. They've also found a pair of. bloody LLBAN boots located in his room. with visible staining. And now one of. the twin brothers is going to find out. that his brother is guilty as well. The. officers leave Levi's interview room. about an hour in to let him finish his. food and really like sit with his. thoughts. And when they come back in, the first question they ask him is,

"Hey, do you think sometimes people do. something that they regret that is out. of character for themselves? Like, do. you think they do something and they. kind of get scared and they don't want. to talk to or tell anyone about it?". They ask him how his DNA ended up at. Denise's house. Levi asks, "Well, how is. my blood?" That's what we're trying to. figure out. So, we're trying to figure. out, and I want you to help me explain. this, okay? Why your blood would be in. Denise's house? >> I don't know. Like, how is it my blood? >> I That's what we're trying to find out.

>> They tell him that they took his DNA. swabs and they compared it to the DNA in. the house and Denise's house. And it's. not only Denise's blood, but his blood. is mixed in with it. He doesn't seem. wild. He just asks, "Well, how does that. work?" Well, everybody's DNA is unique. Everybody has different DNA. Everybody, it's like fingerprints. Nobody has the. same fingerprints in the whole world. Even brothers. Even brothers. >> Everybody has different DNA. Everybody. It's unique to one person. >> Everybody's unique. >> That's like fingerprints. Every Nobody. has the same fingerprints in the whole.

world. >> Even brothers. >> Even brothers. >> Now, the match to the DNA was to both of. them. But it's interesting that that's. his response. And I think that's just. what the investigators are trying to get. at when DNA is brought up again. He. says, "I guess everybody's is unique. I. just mean like my brother is literally. well my twin. I don't know how that. would happen to begin with. How my blood. would be at her house. >> I guess everybody's is unique. I just. mean like because my brother is. literally well my twin. I I just don't. know how that would happen to begin.

with. How my blood would be in her. house. >> If Levi says it's not his blood, then. whose blood is it? And there's one. interesting thing that Levi says. The. investigators do the whole, "Well, we. think whatever happened here is not. malicious. We think it's a stupid. mistake and that everyone needs to be. honest so that we can talk about it.". But when they say that, Levi responds, "I don't think that murder is stupid, though. >> I don't think that murder is stupid, so. I don't.". >> Which is like an interesting response.

>> Mhm. >> It's kind of odd. Back at the house, there's a search warrant being executed. And investigators find Marshmallow. sitting very calmly just hanging out. What stops investigators though is not. just that Marshmallow is incredibly calm. and the demeanor of Marshmallow is very. approachable, which Marshmallow doesn't. seem that stressed out about this move, even that the fact that officers are in. there just flipping up the house looking. for evidence. When officers approach, he. flops over so they can pet his tummy. And that is when they notice that his.

claws are too small to make the injuries. on the vice face. Even if Marshmallow. were pissed off, >> what does that mean? Like his. >> like the scratch mark on his nose to get. five stitches. They're saying like his. claws specifically are too small. >> Interesting. Okay, >> which that's what they say. They find in. the drawer of the left nightstand of a. bed, confessions of a serial killer, the. book, and a brown leather journal that. just reads on the first page. Okay, so. on the very first page, it has Levi's. name on there. And the second page.

reads, I will kill you. K Killer. and in big chunky blocky letters. The. last page of that notebook has a. handwritten instruction page on how to. balance on one leg. It reads, "Stand. with both feet planted firmly on the. ground. Next, slowly raise one of your. feet and stand with all your body weight. on the opposite leg. You should be. balanced on one leg. Reach your raised. foot forward, which points to it being. Levi cuz he was working on his. mobility." M. >> I see.

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But it's not just the journal. It's. what's on Levi's phone versus what's on. Hunter's phone. On his devices, he's. talking to someone on TikTok and Levi. messages them. I have very low empathy, which has been confirmed. Also, my plan, I'm on track. Found my MMO. He takes. screenshots of serial killer's emos. There are psychological analysis, equipment used for transport, body. disposal, naming, possible planning, execution methods, body dump sites, clothing, appearances. There are several. photos of Levi of himself that he's.

taken, like selfies where he's choking. himself in taking a photo, which uh. okay, I looked into it and it seems like. sometimes people with very morbid. interest who want to see what someone. would look like dead will sometimes. Google pictures, but then maybe it's not. good enough. So then they'll like In. other messages to unknown Tik Tok users, he's messaging about how he has a severe. lack of empathy. He likes hurting. animals in his childhood. And I guess. this person tells him that he could. never hurt a fly. Like, I don't think. you could ever hurt a fly. Levi.

responds, "I've killed animals before on. my own with a knife." You're right. I. probably couldn't hurt a fly though. because they're too fast for me. He. states that he doesn't kill while he. hunts. He says, "I don't go hunting.". And he's talking about killing. He says, "Cats, dogs, some squirrels." Then he. sends a message that reads, "Trying to. understand my own problems. Are you. sadistic at all? I'm fairly curious.". Not too long after, he Googles causes of. being sadistic. Then he takes. screenshots of information of how serial. killers subdue their victims before.

killing them, as well as how to strangle. someone and how long that process takes, which Denise was found smothered to. death. And the night of the murder, authorities are able to track Becca, Hunter, and Levi's phones. 12:53 a.m., Hunter plugs in his phone into the. charger and locks his phone screen. 2:12. a.m., Levi locks his phone. 2:19 a.m., Hunter locks his phone. Then from 2:30. to 2:52 a.m., Levi's on his phone using. his camera, but we don't get any other. information from that. >> Wait, what's happening? So, at 2:00ish,

both brothers lock their phone. >> Yeah, like as in like it just shows that. they turned off their like, you know, they can track when you unlock your. phone, lock your phone. >> So, they were both awake around Yes. >> that time. Okay. And Levi turned on the. camera for how long? >> 2:30 to 2:52 a.m. >> 20 minutes. 5:21 a.m. he unlocks his. phone again and starts searching up. Fairfax, Ohio Police Department. Fairfax, Ohio. Fairfax, Ohio Police. Department photos. Then later, when Levi. goes to his dad's house, he starts.

googling again Fairfax, Ohio photos. Fairfax, Ohio Police Department photos. Fairfax, Ohio Police Department. Does. Ohio have restrictions on using familial. DNA searches? What was Ted Bundy's. diagnosis? What was Ted Bundy's kill? Fairfax, Ohio woman found dead. Fairfax, Ohio woman found dead. What was Ted. Bundy Killkit? >> Why do you think he's searching about. Kill Kit? >> I don't know. >> after the fact. [music]. >> Maybe. Well, >> maybe there's more curiosity. >> Yeah. Then he sends a message to someone. on TikTok a few days after the murder.

I'm probably going to get caught and. then deletes that message. Then there's. more searches on Google. Saliva drug. test, saliva swabs, juvenile detention. center, Cincinnati, Hamilton County. Youth Center. Ways cops mess with you in. the interview. ways cops mess with you. in the interview room. 2 hours later. after that search, Hunter and Levi are. called in for police interviews. Meanwhile, on Hunter's phone, they find. messages between Hunter and Becca. They. do a full search of Hunter's phone. Becca is texting him that she's in the. ER with Levi. Be careful around.

Marshmallow. Why? He's being feisty. about the house moving around. Okay, he's trying to hug me right now. Lol. Part of the reason we're in the ER is. because Marshmallow was sleeping on. Levi's face and [music] then startled. each other and he got scratched on his. face. He took a shower and slipped and. hid his face on the tile. Oh, yikes. If. he gets moody, just get up and walk away. from him and keep him away from your. face. It seems like all of the digital. evidence Hunter like his phone did. break. He was sick in the bathroom. There's no messages. There's no weird. Google searches.

>> His phone was off during the time of the. crime. >> Whereas Levi is googling a lot of the. Fairfax, Ohio. So Hunter, it seems he. did look up the case, but in the very. normal way of like what's going on, like. local news reporting. >> Yeah. >> And with Hunter, it seems like at first. investigators wanted to know if they. were both involved, but primarily they. suspected Levi in the beginning. But. after seeing Hunter's reaction to. everything, it just didn't strike them. that he would be involved. But more. importantly, aside from DNA matching, because he and Levi are the same DNA, there's really zero evidence tying him.

to being involved at all. I mean, there's nothing in his phone, his. journals, [music] there's nothing in his. room, there's nothing on his face or. body to indicate any scratches. And he. also doesn't believe that his brother is. involved. Hunter tells the. investigators, I'm sure from your head. and the other investigators, you guys. were probably thinking about like, of. course, he has scratches [music] on his. face. He left the house. He had to go to. the hospital. All that stuff that we. told you, you know, is very much so. corresponding to what happened. And I. just want you guys to know that I have. no faith that my brother would be able. to do something like that. Like, I don't. know if you guys know. I don't I don't.

know if this is spreading too much. information but our family have gone. through some very very traumatic things. >> Our family have gone through some very. very very traumatic things. Also having. a very traumatic childhood could make. somebody be able to do something like. that. So again that's another thing. that's I feel is just a coincidence. Way. too many coincidences like his face. being scratched and him being going. through traumatic experiences. So, it's. completely possible that I don't know. >> And there's just so many times Hunter.

looks like he's seeing the coincidences. that are forming, but he stops himself. and he continues. I don't know like in a. different universe, he did that, right? But personally, I believe I thought. about it. I imagined it because I'm a. very imaginative person. I imagined that. what if Levi made up this story of. scratching his face and then like what. actually happened? >> What actually happened was like always. snuck out at night and and did that. horrible thing. But that was just like I. didn't actually believe that that's. something you could do. Like after after. I imagined that I was like no. >> All three of us are very very very we.

express our feelings very much. So I. know that he has a lot of trauma. He's. basically saying I know Levi has a lot. of trauma but we all talk about our. feelings. >> Like we're very open. We we're all in. therapy. Like that's not how we do it. >> Mhm. >> He even says the day after Levi got back. from the hospital. Remember he went to. go stay with his dad. Hunter says that. the reason was because he was triggered. And I know that sounds suspicious, but. he and it seems like Hunter has another. moment and then he stops talking. He. says that Levi told him he just wanted. to leave the house because. >> I [music] don't know if he's just upset.

about getting the cat scratched in the. face, but he's just like this just this. house. [music] He was crying and he was. like just this house just was makes me. feel like traumatized. I don't know like. that traumatized feeling or not feeling. traumatized. That's the words he used. >> I don't know. I'm just going to keep. saying this, but this makes me feel. really upset because a lot of evidence. is piled up against him. But I mean, I. don't know if you guys suspect him of. anything, but I truly don't believe that. he could do anything like that. Even. though he has all these things, he's. never talked about anything like that. with you about hurting somebody when he. gets triggered. No, no, he he doesn't.

like he doesn't behave weirdly when. triggered. He just doesn't he's just. quiet. He's It's upsetting for him. He. started crying when we got back to the. house because he said he never gave us. an explanation to why he was triggered. I'm sure you guys can't tell me whether. or not you have you're suspecting him. I'm just going to tell you right now. I. don't I don't believe that it's not. >> possible. >> No, no, that's not what I'm saying. I'm. saying no. I'm saying it's not possible. he's he would be able to do something. like that. >> Hunter says it doesn't make sense. because even after the investigators.

came and took their DNA, he says I mean. we joked about it. I like how does it. feel having your DNA in the system now? because he would say he's told me that. he doesn't think he would be a serial. killer when he's older because it just. doesn't make sense to me because that's. just stupid. He also says that he has. immense capacity for empathy for us. It's just slightly less than for other. people. >> What? >> So Hunter is saying like he has empathy. for his family. There's no way that he. could be a killer. Hunter mentions Levi. would talk about how he feels like. hurting people sometimes. He feels empty. and he feels violent. He's never acted.

on any of that. He hasn't had any. impulses to kill somebody. I don't know. for how long. I just know that for the. last year it's been brought up to me. I. don't know how long he and mom have been. talking about it. I mean, I've been like. for my whole life a very very happy. child because I think me and Levi. process our trauma very differently, you. know, while growing our brains. I don't. know how differently. I don't know. Yeah. >> I don't know how differently. I don't. know if. >> Hunter says that he feels like what if. he's being crazy, which means nothing is.

happening. But Levi will know that. Hunter suspected him almost. Which means. that Levi would never talk to him again. because if that were Hunter, he would. never talk to his twin brother because. the betrayal of suspecting your brother. of being a killer would be too much. But. also, if he did do it, then they need to. know. And Hunter says he said multiple. times he's not stupid enough to do that. So, it's not like he's been acting. erratically these past few days after he. got scratched by the cat. He's been. acting pretty much normal. He just only. acts slightly weird whenever I bring up. the thing, which makes sense. the thing. that happened across the street. Yeah,

he's disabled. He's very transparent to. us and his therapist about the way he. feels. Also, the doctors would have. realized it and said something like, "They don't look like cat scratches if. they weren't cat scratches." Like, I I. don't remember what it's called, but. they said like a plastic surgeon came. down and stitched his nose to make it. look better. Wouldn't the nurses or. doctors have had suspicions? Because. surely you'd be able to realize that. something was a human's nail or a cat. scratch. He later leans back and he's. almost like looking off to the side as. if he's replaying the last few days in. his head. There's just no way.

>> There's just no way. Obviously, there's. no way he wouldn't tell me or tell. somebody if he did do that. Like, he. just goes on with his day. Like, I know. murderers can do that, but like him, I. don't believe it. >> I don't know why the investigators. decide that they want to be the ones to. break it down for Hunter. Like, maybe. they want to see his reaction. Maybe. they want to see if he's going to tell. them something else to confirm whose. belongings these are. I don't know. But. they show him like a very zoomed up. picture of Levi's watch. And they It's.

on a tablet. It's clearly a crime scene. photo, but it's so zoomed in that you. wouldn't know. >> Mhm. >> What do you think about that? What What. do I think about What do I think about. that? He's just looking at the picture. of the watch. He's like, "What do you. want me to think about? It's just my. brother's watch.". >> Here, let me widen it out. They zoom. out. What do you think that's the. picture of? He starts like I guess. hyperventilating. You don't hear it on. the body cam, but the officer tells him. to take a deep breath and he says, "We. don't have any of those blankets.". Right. That's not your house.

>> Try to take some deep breaths. >> We don't have any of those blankets. >> Right. It's not your house. >> How does the watch in the struggle was. >> it? It was broken. >> No, I I remember him saying that he lost. his watch. And when did he say that? After he got home from the ER. I don't. remember him talking about it. And then. when he left, he came back and he said. he doesn't know where he put his watch. But Hunter is still defending his. brother. The way he sounded, I don't. know. Like. >> I don't feel a person would say that. A.

person would say it that way knowing. that, you know, they were their watchmen. if they did that. >> They show Hunter a picture of a knife. that he's never seen before. And he. tries to tell investigators that's not. the knife that they have inside their. house. There's just no way he did it. like someone had to have planted his. watch or something like planted like. only proof that you could give me is if. you find his sperm DNA and if I'm right. about her apparently being raped cuz it. was on the news only thing I can believe. like I'll tell you this right now that's. not a possibility the way he acted after.

that happened after he saw the ambulance. he was like why is the ambulance outside. there's no way that he could fake all of. that so correspondingly to the point. where I could see none of it like I. didn't see any of the cracks none of it. he faked all of his emotions Hunter. later tries to say maybe that's not even. his watch he says There's no way that my. brother like there's no way someone in. my family even though like all I'm going. to say is I don't believe it. I'm going. to say that I think there needs to be. more evidence. I think there needs to be. more evidence to convict him. I think. there needs to be more evidence. I know. you probably haven't shown me all the. evidence, but that can't be enough. evidence. Like I know there's all these.

coincidences just stacked up against. him, but there's no way. I mean, my. brain really goes off topic. I just. thought, what if he lost his watch at. dad's and this is all just some sort of. misunderstanding and dad finds it or. like he really did just miss his watch? Like he really did just accidentally. forget where his watch is and I made a. mishap and I said that's his watch even. though that's not his watch and you guys. show him that photo and he'll probably. say like no that's not my watch. Like do. you guys think that's his watch? Yes. Do. you guys think that he did this? Yeah. You're fully convinced? Yeah. We haven't.

gotten into everything but that's why. we're here. and he starts breaking down. >> Do you guys think that's his wash? >> Yes. >> Yes. >> Do you guys think that he did this? >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> You're fully convinced? >> Yes. >> We We haven't gotten into to everything, but that's why we're here. [music]. >> And he screams, "No, no, it's not. possible." And he starts frantically. asking like, "Are you saying he. purposefully hurt?" And then he goes. back to, "There's no way he would do.

that." Like, even if he did kill her, there's no way he's the one who raped. her. like he's not that type of person. On top of that, I don't believe for a. second I. >> I think what's happening is there there. was a really really really meticulously. planned smart person who planted that. watch there and I've been planning this. for a while and it just so happens that. Louis has a lot of traumatic experiences. and he grabbed our knife and he took our. watch and he and they did that. He also. tries to reason with the investigators.

because he read on the news that whoever. did this, they referred to him as a man. And he's like, "And Levi's not a man. Fox 19 said that he was a man." He says. the chances that this is his twin. brother's doing is slim to none. I have. no belief that Levi Levi doesn't have. the capacity to rape and kill somebody. purposefully, willingly, harmfully, having the person fight back. And also, how would mom not find out about it? And. if she did find about it, why the. would she hide it? He's not the type of. person to hide it, which I I do agree. with. He's There's no way he's stupid.

enough to leave his own watch. On top of. that, use our knives. He's a very smart. and calculated person. He knows what. he's doing. He's not stupid enough. I. mean, maybe on drastic circumstances, he. was very, very impulsive. He really felt. like killing someone. He, you know, he. had no other weapons. He could have just. gone into her house and stole one of her. knives. Like, why would is he faking his. empathy for us? Does he not actually. care about any of us? Is that the. reality we're facing here? is the. reality that I'm facing here is that my. loving brother for my whole life, my. brother that I've cared for and cared. for me and my mom has cared for and.

spent and dedicated her life to helping. this person live. And then he asks if. his brother is going to jail and what. the chances are that he won't. And he. puts his head down and he cries, "There's no way. It's not possible. There has to be someone who bloodied the. evidence. There has to be some. misunderstanding.". and he keeps asking, [music] "Are you. being 100% with me? This is true. This. is true. This is true." They tell him. that his brother's DNA was at the scene.

and his head falls onto the table. When. Levi is confronted with the fact that. his watch and DNA were found in Denise's. home, they try to tell him, "You just. seem like a kind of just a young man. I. mean, I'm a young boy. I'm barely a. teenager. >> You just seem like a kind of just a. young man. I mean, I'm a I'm a young. boy. >> I know. So, I'm just trying. >> and sometimes young boys make mistakes. >> So, they're trying to get him to. confess. And there's just a lot of odd.

moments throughout his interviews, like. when they ask why he went to stay at his. dad's house. He says that it was. triggering. And then there's moments. where he like, okay, back and forth. This whole interview is like an hour and. a half. Well, the whole body cam footage. is like 2 hours long, right? It's this. weird back and forth of him trying to. appear dumber than he is or at least. that's what my take of it and then him. appearing way smarter than he is or. trying to appear smart. It's like this. weird back and forth. So he talks about. how he was doing his math homework at. his dad's house, right? What kind of. math? I don't know how to describe it.

It's like trying to measure things like. how long this would be, you know, geometry, I guess. So yeah, >> right. What kind of math is it? Um. >> I don't know how to describe it. It's. like using trying to measure things. >> like how long this would be at this. geometry. >> I guess. So yeah, >> he like weirdly doesn't know the name of. basic things. Okay. But he also says. that he doesn't know if he went to the. hospital to get the stitches. He just. knows somewhere where there's doctors.

Okay. And then he says and then she was. telling me that we're going to urgent. care. And I was like so this is that. urgent. I can tell it feels like he. mentioned he doesn't know where he's. going somewhere with doctors like trying. to appear dumb and then he mentions that. his mom said we're going to urgent care. and then he is like oh so I was like oh. this is urgent. >> It's just weird. I can't tell if he's. trying to cover up for the fact that he. just said he didn't know where they went. but then said urgent care or if he. really doesn't know what urgent care is. It feels more like the former. He. reiterates again like I didn't know this.

thing was that urgent. >> You I mean. thing was that urgent. It's like a weird. thing to say. >> It's just a lot to cover up for the fact. that I feel like he knew it was urgent. care, but that's just my feeling, right? But then later he will talk about how he. slipped in the shower again and he says, "Yeah, I slipped and I hit like the. shower sprayer.". >> Beautiful. >> Just naming things differently. >> Yes. But then when the investigators. look a little skeptical, he'll expand on. that and he'll say, "I guess let me. articulate it better." I was holding the.

shower sprayer, I guess, whatever it's. called, like I usually do because I was. only holding it. I slipped and I fell. like this and I guess I hit it and I. guess it hit the wall. He does start. like cracking his knuckles immediately. after. And then he further explains like. I don't know how to make it make sense. but yeah that's what happens when I fell. and well because I'm disabled I was more. likely to fall. I don't know if you're. aware of that. I've told you I'm aware. of your illness. It's not an illness. It's a disability. Disability right? That's fair. >> Y I am aware of your illness. Um.

>> it's not an illness. It's a disability. >> Disability. All right. It's fair. It's so interesting like this. And then. he goes back and forth between again. trying to appear dumb and then trying to. appear smart. For example, like I said, he doesn't know geometry. He doesn't. know urgent care. But then suddenly when. he's asked about why his blood is at. Denise's house, he starts saying, "I. don't know what explanation I could give. you or even come up with that would be. equivalent to how that would happen.". Well, I guess it would make sense if. there was like a blood transfusion, but. that wouldn't make any sense because I. haven't had any blood transfusions. And.

maybe I'm just reeling from the literacy. crisis, but like how do you not know the. word geometry when you're taking a. geometry course for school, but you know. what a blood transfusion is? And like. technically, I mean, I guess it could. maybe apply technically in this case if. he were to donate blood and Denise had. gotten a blood transfusion and. coincidentally happened to be from the. kid across the street, Levi's blood. But. standard transfusions are packed with. red blood cells, which don't actually. contain DNA. So like this is like random.

food for thought. Okay. >> Really? >> Yeah. So standard blood transfusions are. mainly red blood cells. They don't. contain the DNA. But if some donor white. cells slip in, it's super small in a. quantity. So like when you spill blood. or like blood drips out of you and the. DNA is collected, there's going to be. such white donor blood cells that it's. highly unlikely that anybody else's DNA. is going to come up even if you've had a. blood transfusion recently. And white. blood cells are typically cleared by the.

body's immune system within days to. weeks. So, it's a very short window. Now, there are certain people who get. white blood cell transfers, but those. are really rare and like just really. rare. The only other time that this. could maybe happen where Levi's DNA. would be there, even though he had no. blood transfusion, but let's say he did, is if Denise had a lot of blood. transferred into her system, right? Maybe then donor DNA could be detectable. in the recipient. But again, if you had.

that much blood, like that massive of a. transfusion, you're talking like major. trauma surgery, you're going to be in. the hospital for days until that clears. and that DNA is no. Anyway, no, it. doesn't apply. But the fact that he. doesn't know geometry, but he's. wondering about blood transfusions is. kind of odd to me. >> Mhm. >> Also, there I think you could maybe find. donor DNA in like a bone marrow stem. cell transplant. What are we doing here? Like that's not the point. The point is, why are we taking a journey down the. lane of hypotheticals when you don't. know what geometry is? >> Mhm. >> It's also very odd that he acts like.

he's too young and uninformed that he. doesn't know geometry, but he offers up. all of these other explanations. And the. officer straight up tells him, "Well, it's not a blood transfusion." He says, "I think you know. I don't think I know. >> I think you know. I know you know. >> I don't think I know.". >> Could you not remember? >> I mean, everybody does remember things. >> I don't remember my childhood. Well, that's what I'm asking you. Could you. have done something and not remember it? >> I think everybody can. >> Like even something that would happen a. couple weeks ago.

>> Possible. >> Maybe. >> Possible. >> Anything's possible. >> I know. I'm just trying to explain it, man. That's all. >> And so the investigator's like, "I just. need some answers." And he says, "Well, thank you for explaining it to me. I'm. trying to give you the best explanation. that I can and come up with ways how we. can figure this out. I don't understand. it just as much as, well, you probably. understand it more than me." Then he. offers up the solution of, "Well, if. it's not from a blood transfusion, then. could it be from," quote, >> "Did somebody put my blood in that house. for a reason?".

>> I don't know. Would you tell me? Would. they? >> I didn't put your blood. >> I don't have any enemies. I mean, I'm. only 13. I don't know why anybody would. put my blood in a house. But is there. any more questions you have for me or. like what. >> do you have any more questions for me or. like Well, I want I want to get past. this and we're not getting past it. You. don't know. I don't know. Oh, so we're. just not resolving anything. Well, I'm. not sure if we can resolve it if I don't. know and you don't know. This is like a. lot. I don't ever recall being able to. speak like this when I was 13.

>> Like Hunter in the idea that I can see. where a lot of his overexlaining comes. from because he just seems really. nervous and then he watched too many. body cam videos. Whereas Levi, it's very. like. >> Yeah. >> He also over and underexplains. like. he'll overexlain about the cat. scratching him. But then when he's asked. where he hid his head in the shower, he. just like palms his face and says like. around here, just like a big surface. area. Then he's asked if he knows Denise. well, which is a simple either yes or no. or maybe even not really kind of.

question. Maybe like one sentence of. context, but he goes to explain in. depth. >> I just know she's our neighbor. Uh we. waved a couple times. thought she had a. dog, but I guess when the special agents. came over, they told us that the the dog. had died like 6 months ago. >> So, yeah, I didn't really know her that. well. I don't know. I just thought that. she just like had a job like I don't. know any normal person. I didn't think I. mean like like I didn't know her a lot.

I just thought like this is this person. >> Yeah. And then he has like moments where. he it's almost like a contrarian is. trying to slip out of him which like if. you've ever had interactions with. someone who must disagree with. absolutely everything you say it's. incredibly frustrating and they cannot. help it I guess even in police. interviews. So one detective who has. been largely quiet throughout the entire. interview turns to Levi and says listen. I wholeheartedly believe that there are. two types of people in this world. You've got monsters. You've got people. who make mistakes. M I think I disagree.

with that personally. What do you. disagree with about that statement? I. just think that there's a lot of. different types of people in the world. There's not monsters and people who. commit mistakes. The officer says, "Well, I'm just simplifying it for the. context of this murder. There's only two. types of people that would commit a. murder. You know, monsters and people. who make mistakes." And Levi responds, "Well, if it's a murder, then it would. be a monster, right?". >> If it's a murder, then it would be a. monster, right? >> Not Not necessarily. >> You don't think so? >> No. No, I've been pretty weird.

>> No, I don't. I think murders can happen. many different ways. >> Well, I think if it's murder, it would. either be self-defense or manslaughter. or something like that. Again, you don't. know geometry, but you know, manslaughter. He even sits like a contrarian. Like, he's more intrigued at the idea of like. a moral dilemma in a debate than he is. like getting away with something. The. investigator is saying, "That's why I'm. trying to find an explanation. I can't. put words in your mouth." Levi responds, "I can't put words in my mouth either. I.

mean, I can.". >> But I can't put words in your mouth. >> I can't put words in my mouth either. >> No, I just want I mean, I can. >> So weird. >> Later, Levi brings up again that maybe. there were three people in Denise's. house instead of two. And the. investigator asks him, "Was it?" I don't. know. I've already told you that. I'm. just saying possibilities. Possibilities. are possibilities. Nothing's impossible, as I've repeated multiple times. And. it's interesting at the very end, Levi. almost tries to bring his brother down.

with him. Or at least that's how I get a. read of his intention because he says, "I don't know why I would lie. I don't. know why I would be outside after dark. I don't know why I would even do. something like this." He says, "I just. know I don't see a scenario where me. alone or me myself would ever do that. >> I don't see a scenario where me alone or. me myself would ever do that." which is. like really weird. He's saying I would. never do this but also if I did I would. never do it alone which I have a theory.

and this is just a theory and. speculation that if like I know that. both of them were into true crime but. that's I mean I do think that a lot of. people watch true crime documentaries. but it seems that Levi's interest was a. lot more in-depth. I think the way that. Hunter was into it he's like watching. body cam footage on YouTube probably and. he's just like oh that's interesting. Oh. look at how this person reacts. But the. fact that he Levi is looking up all of. these um the psychology of killers, it. seems a little bit darker. It seems a. little bit more indepth, his curiosity.

And I wouldn't be surprised if he did. come across cases where identical twin. DNA did set killers free because it has. happened before. There have actually. been multiple cases where there was like. a serial essayer and the two twins were. brought in and they wouldn't turn each. other in. The investigators had hoped. that at least one of them would say, "Oh, well, you know what? I don't want. my brother to go down for it. It was me. But they didn't. They even put them in. the same room together to see if they. would talk about it, but they just made. small talk. >> and then they were freed.

>> Yeah. I think that case is going to go. to trial. I think they're trying to use. the novel DNA of the sequencing. >> of like the genome like full. >> Mhm. >> So, it's it's interesting that Yeah. Yeah, >> it's just like very I wouldn't be. surprised if he heard of cases like that. and thought that if he kept bringing up. his brother, it would end up a situation. where nobody would go to jail. >> The investigator asks, >> "How about you with somebody else?".

>> I was. >> Could you have been present when. something happened? >> Maybe. Again, if I I just mean I always. I always say anything is possible. I. just mean I. >> could you bet in the wrong place at the. wrong time Sunday morning on in. February. >> I don't think so. Again, I don't see how. that correlates. I just mean like I. don't I just mean I don't see how I. would do that and I don't see why I. would do that. That's all I. >> Well, that's what we're trying to figure. out.

>> Mhm. >> Why you would do it? >> Why that would happen in. >> Yeah, that's what we're trying to figure. out. Could you have been there with. somebody? >> I don't think so. >> Well, the I don't think so really. bothers me. I don't like the I guess. I. mean, well, I guess you either were or. you weren't there. >> See, I don't like the I guess. You. either were there or you weren't. But we. know that you were there. Well, I mean, you can I don't know. You can think. about my full sentence and say or you. know my full wording and say he said no. I'm just saying I guess as that is what.

I think. I don't have a definitive. answer for me to give and that's why I'm. saying I guess or I'm not. I don't know. But I'm not sure it's possible because I. don't have a definitive answer. If I'm. going to say no, then in my mind I'm. going to say no, I guess because I don't. have an answer. I don't have a real. answer. The investigator straight up. tells him, I think you created this. version of events and you want it so. badly to be the truth, but it's not the. truth. I don't think I would want it to. be the truth if I wasn't telling you. that it was the truth. Like, why would I. tell a story if I wanted it to be true? I've never done that. Your version is.

not the truth. Well, if that's what you. think, that's what you think. I've. explained to you everything I know in my. version of events that I know is correct. or that is in my memory. I don't know. why you would think I'm lying or why you. don't believe me. I mean, my brother's. pretty chatty. Pretty what? Chatty. Was. your brother with you during that night. that you got cut? >> I mean, my brother's pretty chatty. >> He's pretty what? >> Uh, chatty. >> Was your brother with you up at all. during that night you got cut? Eventually, they don't get a confession,

but November 10th of 2025, Levi Cart. pleads guilty to aggravated murder, aggravated burglary, and strangulation. He receives the maximum sentence allowed. under juvenile law. He will remain in. the juvenile detention facility until he. turns 21. He is expected to be released in 2033. >> Wow. >> Yeah. One neighbor told the police. during the investigation that whoever. did this to Denise needs to receive. capital punishment because quote, you.

know, if he gets out, he's going to do. it again. You can't cure that. Other. nizens have kind of sounded off online. saying like that's actually a really. dangerous age to release somebody. And I. do think I mean watching his. interrogation video, it seems like if. he's that equipped at responding to the. police the way he did at 13, I can't. imagine how much more fine-tuned that's. going to get in a cutthroat environment. such as a juvenile detention center. I. imagine your capacity to learn how to.

adjust and survive in situations like. that will make you only that much more. cunning and evasive. >> I mean, it was such a strange case to. see. I think it's interesting that the. investigators handled the case the way. that they did. I almost suspect that. maybe they plead guilty because I don't. know. I just feel like the investigators. really shot their own foot with this. investigation. I think had it gone to. trial, I think the defense would have. had a good time finding a lot of legal.

murkiness with the way that the. investigators approached all of this. And I think maybe that is what resulted. in this plea deal. But that's just my. speculation. What are your thoughts? Let. me know in the comments and I will see. you in the next one. Be safe.