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or okay money is more like a like a. petrol. You need money to get to a. destination. But if your destination. itself. is depressing, welcome back. What do you do? produce one of the best coffee in the. world but Italy known for coffee they.

build the machines to build the machine. coffee machines that is their. intellectual property. doesn't produce UK doesn't produce tea. profitability. cities are very lonely that's a weird. dynamic. >> what made you say that. highrises. chances of you getting depressed is high. we are animals that are built in the. nature water. Subconsciously, it gets you depressed.

It hits differently. You're not working for someone. You're. working with someone. That's an. important thing. That's an important thing.

What we thought once upon a time was. evergreen is no longer evergreen. We we feel what what the hell is this? Mhm. Mhm. >> That GDP is a pointless number. >> Seriously. 2026 2100. world. Yeah, that that is a reality.

>> Raw Talks is on a mission to change the. content consumption pattern in Telugu. Do support us, subscribe and don't miss. out. Hello Rajgar, welcome back. Good to be. back. How are you? >> Yeah, all excellent.

Yeah, the last time 48 hours. Yeah. Yeah, that's good news. Yeah. I mean actually. they don't have to know about me. My responsibility is you should know. about the company not me. Yeah,

>> people should not care about people. ideas. As as me, I'm a very boring person. because. maybe take it, copy it or whatever. True. Absolutely.

So focus on the ideation. inspiration. >> but that's how ideas spread. So for me. ideas are important. I'm sure you must. be meeting a lot of Indian entrepreneurs. like buing entrepreneurs or startup. enthusiasts or the people who built. something sold it or maybe made losses.

>> What is that psychological difference. that you see? Okay, Indians. maybe there are actually some drawbacks. one two major differences if you can. talk about one thing. >> for the viewer who's watching it. >> Yeah. One thing I noticed in some.

particular countries that I respect like. take uh Japan, Germany, >> Taiwan, >> okay, >> South Korea evenne. they're building. products and IP, >> intellectual property. We are building something. Okay, we're building a business and uh. making money. Uh intellectual property.

>> and I can't stress that enough important. a simple example. Okay. >> Okay. Colombian coffee. I stop said Colombia. you produce one of the best coffee in. the world. >> But Italy known for coffee and a simple. question.

Italians build IP. In other words, coffee ingredient. But coffee machian. again it's not about coffee the product. it's about the machines that make the. machine right. they created ecosystem around it.

>> Italian colian. >> another example I take uh cacao mex uh. Chocolate. >> chocolate comes from cacao. >> Mexico and Central America basically. introduced cacao to the world. >> But. uh chocolateologist. you think about Switzerland. Yeah.

>> Switzerland figured out how to make. chocolate. In fact, smoothness. they created, they created a machine. Again, we're talking about YKK and all. of that. >> Same concept. You see the same pattern. >> IP is that concept. >> IP is that concept. So they created that.

and then they captured the majority of. the profits about 1 1.5 billion worth of. chocolate they sell. >> Right. >> Right. That is the that is the. Switzerland uh thing. >> Take India. >> we produced uh you know we produce the I. think one or or we are probably first or. second largest producer of tea. >> Oh no. the largest company, right?

We are an ingredient provider. They will create the machine that makes. all of it. >> You see the difference? IP creation. echo. >> because. Italy doesn't produce coffee beans. >> Switzerland doesn't produce cacao, right? >> And UK doesn't produce tea. But. why?

That's why that makes me proud. I went to a chocolate shop. because I wanted to go there. >> I've seen that packet. >> Yeah. I went there. and. three ingredients. >> in the we have uh milk. >> mud sugar.

largest producer of cacao west district. >> then local milk. so best. that is his concept I very much respect. that. I admire that. >> So I wanted to, you know, support them. So Elena. >> and then I walked through and I looked. at their machinery. >> And what I noticed is the two most. expensive things in that shop are an. Italian machine and a German machine.

>> You need a machinery. >> Machinery is coming from Italians and. Germany. >> Right. >> That is where the intellectual property. is. M. >> upuru what I I wish I hope what they do. is they create the machine that makes. the chocolate that makes the chocolate. better. >> that's bigger. >> that's a bigger thing that is that is a. bigger thing. >> I think game changer. >> that is a game changer so IP creation. that is the next stage like for examp.

IP. produce. I think we have had some good success. stories. Take. >> Royal Enfield. >> Royal Enfield. They make their own. engines. >> and they're selling it locally, right? And uh we see that with uh some of the. other other companies as well like. Mahindra,

>> they're starting to make their own their. own engines, right? car motorcycle but with someone else's. engine. right and. but it has a Honda machine assembly. right. >> Suzuki engine but is a local thing but. engine is still still Suzuki but Tata. Mahindra we're creating our own engine. and that is that means they're building. the IP.

>> and we'll we'll probably go towards that. we've been an IP IPentric company for. example may invested in a company called. ultraviolet. >> and there's electric motor and they. electric motorcycle. >> and yeah so they they have a lot of lot. of IP out there so. we we create software.

in fact. hardware we started. Oh, nice. >> Again, R&D project and all of that. So, because we have to we have to do all of. it again creation. >> Uh but these are all sequence things. where where we need to build up build up. that IP. Now, I forgot what your. question was. >> What is the major difference that you. observe? >> I I yeah IP is the focus on other. countries. Japanese examples.

or US example they focus on the IP and. we are not focused on that. I think that. has to be our focus right. >> entrepreneurs. Good that you forgot the. question. So. if I ask you like. maybe around 40 50 maybe. So in case if. I ask you like an advice for me.

entrepreneurs any any field one month. one month no work nothing we have good. cash in hand we want to travel. to learn something to just change. ourselves. >> to to just uh reset resto. Which country do you advise? >> Not personally I would travel to Japan.

>> Okay. Why? >> Amazing country. that has good traditions. >> Mhm. >> You know family to Japan last year. alone. >> Okay. >> My kid was surprised that. okay. 7 to 8 year old girls. >> Mhm. were traveling alone to school. taking multiple trains without any. parent guidance and it's extremely safe. >> extremely responsible and extremely.

clean. >> and traditions. food and more importantly what they have. built they have built capability. >> oh no. >> and I personally if I had more time I'll. spend more time with the Japanese. companies. >> and learn from them you. There are at least 10 companies that. have been around for over thousand. years. Japan level. >> there are at least for around 45 to.

50,000 companies that have been around. for over 100 years. >> A culture is is completely different. There's a lot to learn from them. a. first segment couple of companies. >> I think they're in the temple building. business and they are construction. techniques and they they are doing. >> thousand years. >> thousand plus years and they have been. you know doing the the traditions I. don't remember the names there's one I. think hotel is in the hospitality. business for thousand years. >> those are amazing institutes.

and. >> empire. >> exactly exactly and generation after. generation they have been uh they have. been passing the craft out there M. >> I mean 100 plus years 45,000 companies. and there's no not even close the other. set of companies uh in countries are not. even close. >> and. and they have been doing that for a long. time. >> take uh. like take a zip. >> right.

bag. there's a 50% chance that that zip that. you have on on your suitcase is probably. made by a Japanese companies. One. Japanese company called YKK. >> Oh, >> YKK and. they they manufact they they own about. 50% of zips in the world. >> Small company, right? Small company. Now. this about 30 30 40,000 employees. I've. been doing it for 90 years.

about you can go around the globe maybe. 70 to 80 times. >> with their zips. >> and a process law the amount of knowhow. they have created is is amazing. >> in fact. why is it others are not able to. replicate it in fact zip product.

That is their IP. That is their intellectual property. That is their IP. That is their. intellectual property. And they have. been doing it for a long years. For example, like. correct. >> Right. There's at least 30% chance that. a ball is made by a Japanese company.

>> Oh, >> right. I think uh Chubaki is the name. I. I use their products and and. precision they've been refining it for. 80 90 years maybe even 100 years and. that is their intellectual property. Chinese companies try to make it.

>> That's the asset of the country. That's. asset and that IP intellectual property. is the key and Japan. but it is still doing well they have the. property they have they build the. machines to build the.

machine is more important. Now it makes. sense. Exactly. important you know like obviously I. travel a lot. is a Japanese company right. like. okay. >> they make they make that suitcase wheel. and that that machine is is more. important.

>> so Japan figured out how to make the. machine that makes the machine as a. country India For example, we are. licensing. >> licensing bullet train technology from. Japan because because they have they. have figured out how to make how to make. bullet train iPhone. It's coming from a Japanese company. because they have refined that that. technology out there. >> So that's why Japan has built that that.

knowhow and all of that. So if I get a. chance, I would go visit the Japanese. companies out there. Motor. certain way. Japanese companies have machines to do. that. >> So any technology. it's not about the machine, it's about. the machine that builds the machine. >> Right? That is that is important. Japanese.

and that is a fascinating country. >> Amazing. >> And Chinese also that would be another. country to to visit because they have. figured out how to do it. >> but they have figured out how to do it. But Chinese though they figured out how. to scale that. >> right. >> that is a different different segment. So if I had to pick two countries to. learn learn something I would visit. Japan and and China. >> So what should be the. What should be the plan? Should we. should we directly get into the markets. or what do you advise.

and it depends on the goal. There is a. first understand and. >> I'll tell you my goal maybe. >> So I wanted to start something in the. product industry but I wanted to explore. not go to Japan or China. So please adise me what do I do? >> Yeah. First thing segment pick your. segment segment. Japan. Okay, >> reach out to them. >> This is before going there. >> Before even going there, do do your. research.

number one. My god. Right. So. crazy. Take a microphone. >> Microphone is is made by SH. >> It's a company in Illinois, US,

>> right? Company, but. anyone can do it. So, first pick a segment. go there, reach out to them, talk to them. Can you teach us? Interesting. They are. willing to teach us. That is the. Japanese culture.

Can we be an apprenticeship? >> Wow. Okay. >> There are cases where he will teach, they will teach because goes back to. fertility. Japanese fertility is very. low. >> Next generation. But they have built the. skill in the last say 50 years. right. >> now. If somebody. can you please teach us and they will. they will teach you. >> Interesting. >> That is their culture and they want.

their skill to continue. >> You have to reach out to them. I'm not. talking about big companies. It's I'm. talking about small companies. There are. a lot of small companies out there. So. but you have to start the dialogue mean. but. exactly. can you show what you're doing. okay I want to do it right. >> and you can reach out to anyone.

microphone or some other company. just reach out and turn. >> nice very soon I'll plan. >> yeah I mean I I've been there several. times. >> honor. >> but I you can never get enough of. >> nice. >> US India Tarawata open Jason office. Japan office. >> nice. >> and we have had a soft corner to Japan. since then because one of the reasons we. are still around is the Japanese.

companies that that took a risk on us. and and that are happy with us and. Japanese employees I mean we have about. 150 employees there and uh that Japanese. culture they buy it and we have a strong. strong relation. >> 150 Japanese and the Indian sir. >> 99% Japanese. >> wow. >> when we go somewhere it's all thing and. then you need a bridge person that can. speak you know English or Tamil. >> do you think that that'll actually. benefit the branch over there. >> yeah because you need a bridge candidate.

between the two. local. are the benefits that you observe rather. than pushing the Indian came there. >> Yeah. See any company. otherwise you're vacuuming the money to. your home country. So.

very logical right. country will go through tough time. Well, a good example is what happened. when a country company came and. took more than it gave. A good example is it's called the. British East India Company. Yeah. I mean that that is a reality and. in fact there are a lot of companies out.

there that are doing the same today. at least as a balance. Then a local. community will respect the country. >> and that's important. So. we hire local local folks with with a. few bridge candidates so that you're. bridging the culture between between the. two. So. seamless. >> and that's that's part of the thing. So. now we do business in about 180.

countries. >> and you have offices in 10 plus. countries. Yeah about close to 30. countries 30 countries obviously and. other countries we go through partners. and all but but local community local uh. culture local aspect. that is one of the most important. important aspect. >> but cultural differences for majorly I'm. talking about leadership founders. I have a habit of calling anyone sir or.

general. Okay. So that's very common. even while working with the clients and. all. What are those major differences. that you observe. but you can do it for example. right.

you know let's say senior. >> because that is that is now because we. don't want to create hierarchy. >> correct. >> that is an important cultural thing. >> plus you're not working for someone. you're working with someone that's an. important thing. >> right each person. >> you respect their contribution that's. why it's part of the team. subconsciously.

so just get rid of it Japanese culture. it's very structural. soy. manager. But. for example, manag. sitting on the same desk, same thing. All that any office, any branch, >> any any branch,

same laptop, all of that. So. everyone is at the same level. So a. corner office for executive, no, none of. that nothing. >> Okay. >> But not necessarily the case in some of. the other cultures. So. you get through that barrier and it work. but it's a work it's a work that you. have to do that's where the company. culture comes in. >> just like country.

is important and that's where hey. metrics are only for machines or respect. these are all some of the company's. values. then it takes time and and then over. time over a period of time it it becomes. normal and it's difficult for example US. law we have some employees and they are. from the military organizations. >> it's a command and control structure.

they have been doing that for say 10 20. years. it's not easy. >> but we we keep we keep asking them to do. it but over a period of time. >> part of training part part of the. training. Totally. Totally. >> Got it. And how do you look at this. population growth? Because. yeah, I know we uh he brought up about. new policy I guess about. something if I'm not wrong. That was the. context of it.

and almost all the states are realizing. it's important population is important. because. what is your thought looking at all the. countries. >> fertility say end of the day. yeah because end of the day it is about. people. >> fertility is declining it's about 1.5.

>> fertility is 1.5 2.1 it's a replacement. rate. >> 1.5 Tamil Nadu I think it's about 1.4. four and so southern states actually. it's below replacement that means it is. declining and that. and that means fast forward. prosperity also will will come down. >> based on the things that I was talking. about earlier. that's what happened in China fertility.

rate is less than one less than one yeah. generation population Half. >> think about that half. and on the other hand North India low or. fertility is fine up fertility is about. 2 point something as a country our. fertility is about to. >> still less than less than replacement. >> I think that's where have kids. >> contribution country. >> contribution to the country it's it's.

important but there are other factors. see okay globally issues. >> that is uh that is a challenge. China less than one. >> Taiwan I think 7 Hong Kong cities even. Japan is about oneish. >> and western countries are new. >> but last time discuss but Nigeria was 5. something 5.6 6 correct. So African. countries are high. >> Oh no. >> In fact, African countries should say.

if you go back say 75 years Africa. population about 230 250 million. >> Okay. 75 years back. >> 75 years fast forward UN projections. there'll be about 4 billion. >> 230 million 4 billion. >> next 25 years billion. and so.

2026. 2100. world. >> uh Asia India China. >> or Asia will be about 4 billion people. >> only Asia. >> only Asia Africa is another four billion. people. >> rest of the world is is the the other. 15%. >> right so and North America South America.

Europe Australia. >> about 15% so that some of these. continents will probably be rounding. error So but that is the again that is. the result of some of the countries. >> not having kids. simple. >> very important. >> fertility is important then I have a. tangential take. probably a lot of people disagree is. fertility is a lot to do with. urbanization.

>> city law city. they pick an extra bedroom instead of an. extra. That is the unfortunate reality because. they compromise on that they have they. have less less kids. >> and that's another other aspect to it. >> and so you'll see the correlation. between low fertility and high.

population. >> and. and it has its own implications You know. these populated cities are very lonely. >> That's a weird dynamic. >> Wow. >> Right. So, and. >> then there are also other other aspects. to it. Yeah. Very depressing.

again. 50 60 years. Uh there's a. research being done. >> how high in a highrise you live. depression correlation. chances of you getting depressed is. >> high humans. we are we are animals that are that are. built in the nature. >> True.

subconsciously it gets you depressed. >> Very true. And as a byproduct, you're. also not having kids and and. community is all about okay. that is your community. So I think. these highrises are are are depressing. aspects and contributing to low. fertility but and you'll see the. correlation studies have been done uh. throughout and 56 years nobody's choose. to choose to read those uh or choose to.

adopt those but that's where fertility. is correlated with with urbanism is. correlated with some of the other. factors and and there are other factors. not worth getting into but but it's an. important thing. Have kids. That's the. best thing you can do. It hits differently. Yeah. I mean, people think uh latest. software job is the greatest thing ever. Hey, we are.

>> humans. >> Oh, no. The most important thing is. fellow human beings and what you grow. and the kid that that you mold. >> and the values you instill are more. important than others. Okay, this is. where I. you know. as a farmer as a part-time farmer I see. this. see as a person as a as an employee I. built a lot of products software.

products. software products you're creating digits. >> create some of the products were shut. down because market changed or whatever. and most people don't even care about. Right? Most people probably didn't even. benefit from it. >> And the lifespan of a of of that. particular digits I created is very. small.

I get more satisfaction from that than. this one. >> So digits lifespan is much shorter. You. could atoms lifespan is much longer. Then when you talk about people that is. another level. people are missing out on that on the.

human aspects of it. temporary values, temporary temporary things, human values, human aspect, it's becoming a rat race. So get some. perspective and say, "Hey, the life we. have is good. Fellow humans, human human. beings are good. Focus on that instead. of running the rat race.". >> Yeah. There will be couple of teams who are. meant to be uh doing something and. failing. >> Mhm.

just to understand the market more. because more experiments maybe more. failures only then the best thing comes. out. >> just a quick uh thought me. startups or entrepreneurs who are. watching this podcast I'll ask a lot of. advices lot of inputs but first. what should be one of the major uh what. you thought or maybe a process that they. should.

If you need to talk about it. fundamentally. technology, services, product. simple. but. you know. more details. >> services companies. I think I don't know if you talked last. time revenue Revenue per employee about.

action total per per year. >> Total revenue of a company. >> divide by the number of employees. >> Right. Top five services companies. technology services company revenue per. employee about. top five product. is there but outside. revenue per employee.

So. hard work. simple mathology. but. product company is the way to go 100%. >> 100% right and that is the first level. second.

10 years. and 10 years let's say services. companies again TCS. revenue employ. about the same. in fact inflation.

10%. Google Microsoft. multiffolded. Sotorically. product services. great. Yeah, because. let's say.

okay starting. right. that is this point. services at. least if you're starting now. Well, just. take that advice. No, >> great advice. And just if I ask you.

double clicking on the same point last. double clicking on the same point but in. a different dimension. and what are those gaps that you're. looking at? Yeah, part of it is cultural.

>> and. one playing it safe, >> right? >> Let's say. you make money, >> then you're happy. Contentment, we're happy with what we have. on top of. it, you're happy. Contentment is part of it. So,

But I think times have to change. I. think. not to deviate too much. Let's take farming. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Simple farming. last 100 years farming.

farmers productivity product. about 70% of the workforce farming 100. years back. >> Mhm. >> About 3% of the of the workforce farming. loaner but 3% produce 10 to 15 times. more than what 70% used to produce. Oh. But 60% of the workforce farming.

now probably about 40%. >> 40% of the workforce farming and. >> recently. but farmers. toolmakers. tractor.

tool makers make money. >> or shift to a different industry. manufacturing. >> same last 20 30 years or even 100 years. manufacturing improve manufacturing. productivity multiple fold. >> you're talking about India. >> India or globally US China this Canada. this any any. manufacturing. >> but manufacturing workers. not really.

>> they are productive but. toolmakers automation toolmakers and all. of that. >> so now let's shift to a different. industry technology industry right. technology industry smartphone. So we are all productive because of it. But who are the top companies today?

Toolmakers. >> laptop like Apple, iPhone like Google or. phone Apple, Google and all of them. They are tool makers. So toolmakers make. more money. So a farming manufactur. or technology. it's always tool makers that make money. and not tool users. >> Yeah. >> Tool users we are benefiting from it but.

tool makers are the ones that make money. from it. We got to understand the. fundamentals. Goes back to the. fundamental logic I was talking about. So. tools something else. >> So these are all fundamental fundamental. decisions that you got to make. >> Right. Right. >> So fundamental logical then you can get. into the next level of this. So mayo. obviously we started going down this. path and creating creating tools.

>> but we need a lot of those. what will happen to the software. industry because uh 15 years back. employee. yeah. 40. but looking from Bird's eye view. industry change shift and one of the.

large tech. software company. what are you observing what will happen. in the future. >> software might become a normal job. >> and. software or or whatever you look at it. you know it's a high paid job. >> because that is in demand right. >> was in demand is maybe for now it has. been Yeah. How long? We'll have to see. This might be numbered.

Yeah. Steel industry, >> steel related employment was high. So. while they were paid very high, right? Then now they'll consolidate and. they have been consolidating.

So EV engineers were demand right. Right. If you go all the way back, you know, steam engines, steam related experts. were were in demand. Correct. >> And all the way back farmers were in. demand. >> But again, we have we have come all. around just that life flow we are seeing. it. We we get perturbed by the current. trends but it'll become normal business. you know.

really. software engineer. Are we doing anything. magic? Why? What are we doing so different that. teacher. you know teacher salary maybe let's say. 20,000. >> and software engineer salary is much. more than that say maybe 20 40,000. >> okay two times better now is it that. important. actually I would argue teacher is. teacher job is more important because. you're shaping the life of the next.

generation. >> then why is it and so maybe software. will become a normal. and maybe something else will be in. demand and and. >> we just have to come to terms with the. reality asparity. and that is part of the challenge. >> and that also maybe a tangential point.

goes to into a different different. direction. >> Mhm. Take a technology like. iPhone maybe. teacher salary. Yeah, right. Let's take a different extreme.

Switzerland. See the difference. quality of life.

they are able to earn more because they. able to earn more now. exactly because mechanical equipment. M. >> but. they created the equipment for that. intellectual property.

>> and those are important. So teacher. salary is related to. economy. services. for example services indry is a major. improvement. actually. relative to let's say 20 years ago. before before our our software services. Now if you fast forward that today.

but. per employee. we have to create the intellectual. property knowhow and all of that. It's not always creating a product. It's. about creating a product that creates a. product. >> Yeah. creating a machine that makes the. machine.

>> then employee salary because revenue per. employee goes back to the previous. metric. then okay. society generally improve you have to. build products and the intellectual. property behind the products these are. all interconnected No, makes sense. I. mean and uh. almost 30 years you've been uh looking. at data or uh different different.

industries. kind of magical the kind of observation. that you have because. what's what's actually changing. last 30 years. what was your observation. Indian economy or Maybe. changes in the preferences from the. entrepreneurs.

What did you observe? >> India improved a lot. >> the last say 20 30 years you know last. time I started a company in Hyderabad to. to now last say 30 years. >> completely. >> 91. >> 98 98 okay. >> so it changed a lot. M. >> ease of doing business improve. >> infrastructure is significantly better.

14bs internet. I remember that yeah. we used to develop it because yeah so. those are those were the times. infrastructure is much better now. so. And then you know flight. airport have gotten better, trains have. gotten better, connectivity has gotten.

better. So India has gotten much better than say. last last 25 years. >> One thing I would like to see is product. companies. We haven't cracked that nut. I'm confident we will but. >> so. but am I surprised? I'm not surprised. >> because I studied a lot of lot of. countries and their growth. >> GDP uh is a is an indicator of a growth.

of a country. >> GDP growth. historical data. When a median age of a country is. between 25 and 40. median age. typically economic activity oh no. >> young population wanting to create. things do something. >> correct. >> and grow up or for example 1950s Japan. was uh Japan's median age was 25.

>> okay 1990 low it was it hit 40. >> mhm. >> 15 in 1990 Japanese growth choose say. crazy. >> Oh wow. Yeah. >> Right. >> You see that in South Korea similar. You. see that in Taiwan. Taiwan similar. China 1990 low they were about uh the. 25. >> Mhm. >> And obviously hockeyistic growth. right. >> India is 29 about that. India growth. last few years is partly because of of. that trend historical trend. So it comes.

down to young population wanting to do. something. >> and then as long as the the system and. the political system basically don't. throw hurdles in it, they just get out. of the way. >> Now what do you mean by that? >> Well, if you're. if your system. u adds more friction. >> because a good example of that is. Venezuela. >> Yeah, >> Venezuela has very young population 26,

27, 28. that is. countries that is the only country where. GDP is tanking compared to any other. country that is growing. >> So policies play a key role and policies. should get out of the way and let young. people do it. Make it easy. uh to do business and provide the. infrastructure then. >> leave it to the young entrepreneurs and. creative minds to create business. >> Adi historically that is what happened.

What we are seeing is basically trend. again demographics are destiny on top. >> Oh yeah. >> right. So we have the right demographics. again last time we have very good. demographics. >> I mean. actually not 25 million people. 22 million million people per year. produce now. >> compared to China at 8 8 million. >> Yeah. and.

means. population. Very true. End of the day, civilization is about. people. What struck me. um maybe a few years back, a decade back. very high uh industry. One of the.

reasons is or two decades approximately. special economics. software companies who export services. or who export software services to the. other countries. tax benefits. the same if I ask you. based. not just 5illion 10 trillion.

What else should they do? Policy level. stuff. >> Yeah. >> Policy level but policy is important. >> important. >> Let's zoom out a little bit. >> If you go back way back India used to be. a large contributor to the global GDP. about 20 30%. contribution. >> before the industrial revolution. >> Okay. >> Right. >> Okay. new technology called the steam.

engine came. >> the first indust industrial revolution. >> India missed the boat on that. >> oh no. >> the second second uh industrial. revolution. that is probably the electrical grade. >> India missed that. we missed a few technology waves. India got into the funk and and that's. where other countries who had the. technology. >> they dominated India too Right. >> Right. >> That is one third industrial revolution.

let's say the digital transformation. where digitize. a digital transformation. had the policies. India at least played the game. It's not the best. It did not create the. IP but at least we not left out. Absolutely. That is a policy that the that the.

government set and that helped everyone. >> Next, we are about to enter a next industrial. revolution with AI. then we will be relevant or we could. even lead the next AI revolution. M. >> so policies have to help that area. >> So understanding. where to set and what to set is.

important because wrong incentives is. there then wrong set of products is. there. >> always you know incentives drives people. behavior. So incentives. and policies then appropriate things. will come. M and last 5 years. leadership team did you get a chance to. talk to the government officials or. maybe the key people in the uh. government generally I'm sure you you'll. be talking to them. >> certainly we are part of it especially.

in particular he he talks to and he is. an adviser to several teams and trying. to shape it why do we need technology. yeah because and then. >> covid shaped. the physical supply chain. M. >> trade wars are shaping the digital. supply chain. >> and then everyone is is is questioning. and and re reviving it and that's where. you need advisers and all of that and we. trying to trying to you know advise.

wherever is needed. Those discussions. are. we. takes a lot and lot of time and efforts. in the government. of I mean tech. there are many giants like. we we feel what what the hell is this. maybe.

because I've been in this indry. being an article assistant also I used. to work with many government websites. or what is actually not happening in the. uh tech enabation enabling process. yeah I mean I can't comment too much on. it because And I'm not too involved in. that part. So I'm my knowledge is.

limited on that front. >> But discussions do happen. See. >> take something like a UPI. >> Oh no. >> The Indian IP. >> Yeah. >> How many countries executed something. like UPNA? >> Absolutely. You know, >> so. exactly. >> So now v countries are trying to trying. to license this technology. >> So we have executed well in several. several things. M uh same thing commerce. side do we we have executed a few things. as well. >> we have our own set of issues just like. any other country.

>> but we also have executed a lot of. things unlike unlike many other. countries too so there are pros and cons. but again 20 years back we did not even. have digital stuff so I know I I know. and progress gets made. >> and India is chaotic but we also know. things will happen and in the short term. Again product mindset though you know. you have to keep trying trying trying.

and then you find the success and then. you run with it. >> Our mindset. we know the the effort because services. mindset or other mindsets are slightly. different. You find success relatively. safe. >> but this is a different game. >> and it's not easy to do it. So, but we. are on the right track. I'm confident. I thought maybe we'll talk about this. also.

Maybe 15 years back. only men used to work and. join. more contribution to the house money. Housewives women.

At the same time, >> that is how the economy changes, right? Every everything I mean every economical. shift or maybe cultural shift. >> keeps adding to the economy. What I I.

personally believe generally. you keep traveling to a lot of. countries. What do you think those major. cultural differences or maybe economical. differences should happen in. >> to to build the economy? Naturally. men and women wife and husbands. they're not able to spend time with with. each other. first thing.

Okay. So are we giving giving birth to a. person without any planning multiple. discussions? So everything has a double. side of the coins. So what do you think. about it countries? they have become a.

GDP maximizing machines. >> Okay. And that's a transaction. So technically. GDP. but GDP maxim max. and take my family I think my wife is. doing the most important job in my.

family. >> Mhm. >> Which is raising kids. Raising kids. taking care of them which is most. important should be most important than. in a family. True. We are pill see we are chasing yet. another paycheck. >> and that's where to chase something to. purchase something. >> we probably don't need. >> with probably the money we don't have to. impress a person we don't like. >> and that is the that has been the the.

trend and it's a never- ending it's a. materialistic world. >> and technically all of these contribute. to the GDP and that GDP is a pointless. number. Most of these metrics themselves. are pointless. Metrics are for machines. >> Metrics are for machines, not for. people. >> Okay? >> Because we have figured out how to how. to manipulate metrics and all that. >> Name me the data company useless. >> Metrics are for again for systems,

>> right? >> We measure a lot. >> but we measure that for for machines and. systems, not for people. >> Exams. exams we have a metric called grading. system was there then he did well and. number is a lagging indicator. number is always lagging indicator. example.

So number is a lagging indicator. Correct. Correct. Right. >> So number we gave it to uh mark system. >> A mark is supposed to represent the. knowledge of the person. >> People are smart. They'll game the. system. Everyone will optimize. themselves for the marks. >> 100%. But it's supposed to be. representing the knowledge. >> So humans are really good at gaming the. metric system and and incentives.

will will drive the behavior. >> Correct. >> Right. So company valuation valuation of. metric. >> they will do whatever it take to reach. higher valuation. >> because revenue who cares uh you'll say. uh profits who cares because because. that is the metric is really valuation. Everyone will chase the valuation. >> So the entire world with GDP go then GDP. everyone will is in the business of. chasing GDP.

>> In the process we forget the. fundamentals. knowledge. No but there's no way to. measure the knowledge. Now everyone is chasing the marks. Correct. >> Which are basically pointless. >> Knowledge is important but we chase the. metric. So that's where metric. maximization machines as a byproduct GDP. GDP maximizing mach so that's where I. think we have to separate from from. these metrics and go back to go back to. fundamentals.

we don't measure people we don't we. measure systems but we don't we don't. measure people. >> and at a country level at GDP it is just. another metric the real metric is is. something else the health of the economy. >> in India one you notice is. person is happy fundamentally. there. >> at a fundamental level they are happy. satisfaction level because their.

purchasing power is is decent they are. they have what they need and they're. happy you don't find that in a lot of. countries some of it is spiritual comes. from spirituality and all of it. >> but metric it kind of goes down the the. wrong path and and that's where metrics. So GDP maximization. and we are chasing those those. never ending story. That's that's a sad. way to to live frankly.

Yeah. So that's where metric. software for example. uh number of tickets clos customer. tickets. So customer issue solving.

for the metric. uh even uh in fact. uh Warren Buffett partner uh he said. Merl Charlie Manger said uh show me the. the incentives I'll show you the outcome. earner so if you incentivize someone for. that. >> outcome will follow so that's why don't. optimize for for metrics metrics are for. machines.

>> because see performance metrics and. under office. >> those are pretty pointless. >> performance performance metrics and. performance it's like assembly line is. for machines. >> not for people performance meet I'll go. to I I'll give you a better next role. and then the next role and the next role. right. >> it's like an assembly line thinking. mindset applied to people that will. never work that's a bad approach to it. >> so but so the I have and as a company we.

have that issue with with these metrics. >> right. >> and so al when you apply it at the. country level a GDP maximization machine. but you have to look at it a human. level. What is the purpose of of life and what. is the purpose of the relation between. these? Are we spending too much time. with the gadgets or or with people and. unfortunately we are spending too much. time with with gadgets instead of people. and that has to change and nobody's is. looking at it at that level. And now a. bit about.

me personally, >> where do you get paid? Is it in India or. uh. >> US US? Yeah. >> So of course you you'll be going through. the taxation policies there right? >> Yeah. Yeah. discussion generally. it's almost like a slogan.

So going forward. toxic. if I'm if someone who's earning well. living in a good society and also is. paying good taxes to the uh country or.

economy. >> but still pays lacks and lacks for. private schooling. where is the need of government. So you traveling to so many countries. and uh maybe you uh what do you call. following the process of US taxation. policy. >> midi on Indian taxation what is it like. and how are you looking at it. >> simple question India percentage of the. population taxes.

>> yeah less than 2% something right. yeah that is one of the lowest in the. world. So historically tax. >> so it's a a chicken and egg problem. >> the government doesn't have revenue. >> revenue they cannot invest in the. country especially e country slow in. infrastructure invest we have to invest. say billions in semiconductors. >> and fast trains airports all of those.

security national security ports defense. all of these. >> we need the. We need the money, right? So. it has to come from taxes and. percentages as as a percentage. >> and it is very reasonable compared to. other countries. >> the rates you're talking about. >> Yeah. >> Europe 50 60% tax is very common. >> Mhm.

>> Europe. So here it's it's much more. reasonable. >> and US low again somewhere between 20 30. 40% depending on the California about. 50% depending on the range and all of. that. >> So there are countries that pay higher. that people that pay higher taxes in. some of the other other countries and. even states and all of that but in. general. >> I think it is very reasonable. That's my. >> my opinion. And what do you think.

but what do you think 97% or 98% of the. people who are not paying the taxes but. 30% they earn money. but. what do you think. see unlike other developed countries 40%. of the workforce is in agriculture. only 3% % 3% either 40% agriculture and. US law agriculture is not again taxes is.

a exemption tax is extremely low or. similar to what we have. something so so there is a reason some. of these are are are. >> not not paid. >> but it's a matter of time before you you. bring that economy into this. >> and it's again to chicken and egg. problem whereas. tax then you can invest and then the. company grows the country grows economy. grows and then more facilities and it. keeps keeps growing in that. >> and that is the normal thing. See, you.

know, generally. taxes historic history, his historically. speaking, taxes. has been zero for the for the most part. of the US, for example. >> Taxes were supposed to be temporary. >> World War One, they introduced that as a. temporary otherwise it was zero taxes. all you know till then. >> Then that temporary became there's never. temporary thing in tax. >> Always always mandate. >> is a is a mand mandate. Yeah. Yeah. But.

yeah because. uh viewers who are watching we've we've. started a fund called raw fund we. started uh pushing entrepreneurs or not. just fueling with money in case. they can be a good mentor for c certain. businesses or maybe one or two hours of. call can make a lot of difference in. their business. So. for the viewers who are watching if this. is a mentor mentorship call or class. So.

they they are just struggling to. understand IP. Maybe if they ask you a question next. two decades evergreens. or three industries if you want to tell. what we thought once upon a time was. evergreen is no longer evergreen. Take. like farming.

>> food essential evergreen. >> but it's tough to make money in farming. clothes. that. the so-called diamond industry well it's. done diamond rate was done by 50%. Because. diamonds can be created. >> right because lab grown.

>> lab diamonds because fundamentally again. you have to look at first principles. diamond. >> it's a carbon. that's a carbon enough pencil. technically that is because. >> that is what that is what carbon is. because there is a reason diamond is not. on a periodic table because. fundamentally it's carbon. >> so it doesn't make sense it's a. artificially created created item. Now. you you have a printing machine for. diamonds. >> The value is going to be who creates.

that printing machine. Diamond making. machine is their IP costly costly. So. Chinese are figuring it out and and now. artificially made diamonds. 70 80%. >> and it is only raised to the bottom. But. the IP is going to be who creates those. diamonds, right? >> So at one point diamond is going to be. was going to be a forever industry. M. >> it no longer is. software forever industry. I don't. consider that it is. >> so permanent change the first habit that.

an entrepreneur has to know is. we know whatever that is but industry. what is what is the differentiator. >> like diamond making machine what is your. making machine today AI model is a is. equal to a making machine is it's a. machine that makes a machine a model. makes software. >> right. >> right our model in this go future and. software side that is a that is an.

opportunity but there are other other. opportunities that that are coming out. if you if you look at it. >> zoom out and and. particularly AI and where is the market. going. >> right. >> last 20 30 years. we digitized things around us. technically. I. Right.

Similarly, maps, right? Right. So, physical things. >> That has been that has been the trend. >> In fact,

digitize. for the first time we are digitizing. ourselves. >> AI is a digital version of our brain and. robotics and humanoids is a you can call. it digital version of our body. >> Right? So we digitized things around us. Now we. are digitizing ourselves. >> That means the entire industry, every. single industry is going to change. >> because.

employees. there are two reasons. their physical ability. >> Let's say you're moving company, equipment moving company. >> You have to physically move things. That. is the physical ability. Second entity you're hiring them for. mental ability meaning intellectual. ability because they are thinking all of. that. >> AI is becoming a thinking machine now. >> Now would you hire someone or would you.

hire AI. >> because you're you're hiring the. thinking ability at this point and that. changes the dynamics. So now you have. machines that can think. In other words, for example, there will be an AI model. that'll be sitting on this microphone. >> where in the audience for example. Hindiango microphone will take it and. stream it automatically with Hindi. >> and camera will capture my lip movement. turn it into as if I'm speaking Hindi.

>> because that is a thinking machine now. It can dynamically take it and and. stream. Yeah. It's it's changing the language and even. the lip sync if we are not having the. BGM. >> Yeah. So all of this is possible because. thinking machines are are coming. >> Now that changes the dynamics because. take something like a like a car. Car is. a thinking machine.

>> Okay. A machines. Let me see where are. things going. >> Okay. Take cleaning. tool. >> We created a vacuum cleaner. So vacuum cleaner. It's an efficient. tool. Efficient tool. Then there's a robotic. vacuum cleaner.

So. clean. Mu because that's a thinking machine. So you're asking it to clean it for you. >> Now same. driving. it's a it's a transportation machine. manual transportation machine. Car is an efficient version of of a. driving machine. Right. Then latest.

version of Tesla. it drives itself. in that case last. 10,000 m I did not touch the steering. >> it drives by itself and and and that is. that is a good thing in other words I. delegated my driving. >> just like you de without a driver just. like you delegated the uh the the. cleaning to a robotic vacuum cleaner the. same thing is coming to software.

you will automate. Then you're getting to a stage where the. agent will do your accounting. >> where you will outsource the accounting. itself to something else. So we are. entering an age of delegation because we. have the thinking machines that are. doing the thinking. True. >> When I was learning accounting, balance sheet.

Exactly. I could not relate also. This was 10. years back. >> Exact Exactly. See we we moving to a. different thing because the machines are. doing the work. >> and that also means. >> so in other words we are letting machine. do the work and the best use of. technology is and the best success of.

technology is when technology gets out. of the way so that we can spend time. with people. >> fundamentally you're delegating things. because and that is where we see we see. going. So we are delegating the most. things to other aspects and letting. letting us spend more time with our. manipulani or or fellow human beings and. the society that is more important. So. when success of technology benefits.

humans and and so that's why I'm excited. about where technology will take us. Nice and. tweet about something you mentioned. >> So connecting. when we were active in media agency. your website is your first office. >> and your I mean the SEO that you do is a. way to get into your office. Yeah. Yes. To an extent.

Mhm. >> So what is happening around us? Everything is changing. >> and we'll have to accept it. and change is the common thing. Get. ready for it's constant. So be prepared. for it. That would be the thing. Whatever we worked on would probably. relevant for for a long time. I mean. that applies to programming. Maybe last. 10 20 years in programming all of a. sudden you have a machine that that can.

program. Then then now we have to look. elsewhere and that is what happened to. the to the weavers and the and the. goldsmith and and whatn not the industry. after industry right telephone. operators were in demand right manually. switching well those don't exist anymore. >> toll collectors don't don't exist. anymore any first impact I call them 3Ds. >> dirty dangerous and drudgery.

>> okay dirty. then humans don't want to do it. So. dangerous. then you want them to do it. For. example, this is where I I find I'm. looking forward to the to a humanoid. >> Let's say you're a firefighter. >> That's dangerous for the firefighters to. rescue rescue someone, right? >> You would send maybe few humanoids to. save a human. Even if it means giving up. the humanoid, it's important to save the. human life. Instead of risking another. human life, you're you're risking a. humanoid. And that dangerous work you.

would rather have the machines do it. >> and then it's like everyday. you want technology to do it and we. typically do it for example. that's a drudgery that's a that's a job. well you automate that with technology. and that is where technology comes in so. dirty jobs for example sewage cleaning. jobs in the city. you want to send a machine well you. would rather send a machine. So.

generally dirty jobs, dangerous jobs, drudgery jobs, these are typically the. ones that are being replaced and I can't. wait to see those replaced by the. machines so that we can spend our. valuable time with other human beings. >> Right. Absolutely. So if you need to just double click on. it. just in case if you need to address.

people who are building something. building products or services or. whatever like SAS. >> maybe as as an advice or as a lesson. what what should you focus more on and. slow if you need to talk about. >> over to you. Yeah, before getting it, let me zoom out a. little bit. And. >> you know one thing, okay, notice just so. cities around the world. >> is the reason they're built around water. next to the water. Mumbai next.

and. New York, San Francisco, Panama, Buenosirus, Sydney, you take anywhere. >> There is a reason for it. One, civilizations need water. >> Mhm. >> And two, that water enable trade. >> Oh, >> right. Because water.

trade enable that is in the physical. world. What's interesting is. fiber optic cables I call them the. digital rivers. >> Mhm. >> Physical. backbones backb. you see that in New York, London, Paris, right? Mumbai. So digital.

digital which is fiber optic cables and. backbones of the internet right. cables to say who owns those cables. fundamental question. cables 95% of those backbone providers. and cable cable fiber optic cables are. owned by private companies. >> and where are they and obviously they're. in obvious locations right they're owned. by private companies in certain. locations M. >> soundu. trade physical world.

nobody owned the rivers. but digital rivers are owned by private. companies. >> right. >> private companies that are so large. that it's a different scale. >> any of the top five tech companies top. five companies they become the top five. companies. revenue. revenue is greater than GDP of 75% of. the countries.

So what a company revenue is greater. than. 150 countries in the world. and so that means the companies dominate. countries. >> and last time we know when that happened. 50 people sitting in London. basically ruled a country called India. >> for over 100 years. company ruled a. country. >> they came in for trade in the physical.

world and digital world they are coming. for trade and that's why most of the. tech companies are the modern versions. of the East India company. >> and now because they dominate so much. and that is the reality we are in. >> so when two countries disagree they can. pull the plug. >> oh no. >> they can pull the plug and Say you don't. have access to the internet. You can say. you don't have access to my email.

system. You don't have access to my. WhatsApp. You don't have access to my. meeting software or you don't have. access to my banking system or. navigation system and all of that. because the trade used to happen in the. physical world on ships. Now trade. happens in the digital world through. cables. >> and some companies control countries. >> and that is the context. That's why. people are looking for sovereignity. >> in Tamundu. They looked for freedom from.

from people from other people who. dominated. Right. Now we are looking for. sovereignity. Now we historically looked. at freedom fighters because they got us. freedom. >> Now we need sovereignity fighters. >> Very true. >> Entrepreneurs are the modern day version. of freedom fighters. Now they can be the. sovereignity fighters. Absolutely. >> And the way you build sovereignity is by. building products your country needs. By. building intellectual property that we. talked about the country needs.

>> Sure. >> So these I consider entrepreneurs as as. the modern day version of freedom. fighters building sovereignity building. intellectual property building products. a country needs. And that's why I would. encourage a lot of entrepreneurs to just. come out of their shell and build what. the country needs because technology. sovereignty can only is directly. contributed to a country sovereignty. Agreed. >> Country sovereigntity is directly. related to technology sovereignty. A. country cannot be sovereign if they are. not technologically sovereign. That's.

why it's essential for entrepreneurs all. around the world from their respective. countries to build the products they. need. that that is the need of the so that's. where history 100 years fast. the entrepreneurs will be celebrated for. winning the sovereignity battle just. like just like we celebrate the freedom. fighters for winning the freedom and. that is what is at at stake now and. trade wars really revealed the the weak.

points and all of that. >> because a lot of these things are. controlled by a handful of companies. again from our history we We know we. know how that ended. So that is the. background context. So. where are you not sovereign. >> because country. then you are a customer. >> but are you a customer or are you a. hostage.

because. maybe you're not a customer maybe you're. a hostage that means. you don't have a plan B what is your. plan. plan then are you at least working. towards plan B plan then that is a. bigger problem. >> that is where entrepreneurs should come. in can come in and regulation all of. that should basically make its way to. opening the system like take rocket. system IMA local company private company.

was able to you know go to space skyro. right. >> good friend. >> that's that's awesome that's an awesome. and that's where worked with ISRO. because ISRO built the IP in the last. few decades. Now they are able to help. local companies thrive and that will. give us the the sovereignity for space. >> that happen that has happened to. navigation satellite. Previously we're. dependent on third party navigation. satellites. Now India has its own. navigation satellites and it is it is. sovereign like every single technology.

UPI we're able to achieve that. Uh so. financially we control. Now the trade in. terms of navigation we control that. Now. can we build the fiber optic cables and. the backbones networks ourselves? Well. we should be building and that's where. the infrastructure has to has to go in. So that's why semiconductor conductors. slow we are seeing a lot of progress. there and that's why the country is. investing in it. That's a good positive. thing. So take every single technology. output maybe okay 100 top technologies.

you have to go after those top top. technologies and go invest in those and. that is a massive opportunity any. entrepreneur entrepreneurs. >> no doubt. >> and if I ask you. where is Zoho standing in that path of. beating the sovereignty or maybe where. is Zoho. >> we are building the IP. >> Mhm. IP the company needs and the. country needs. We take something like a. communication system. >> Now Indian government uses our.

communication system, email systems, chat systems and and all of that. >> and because of that only last two years. Yeah. >> Is it so? >> Well, there are probably other other. reasons. People are realizing the value. of sovereignity. >> and government. >> and and that is one one of the. technologies. >> we have our own IP. >> but for example my email software. google.

then we are still running on someone. else's IP we built our own. infrastructure our own cloud. >> we were able to offer it to the. government and government runs it on. their Everything stays here. >> Everything stays here and that is an. that is an essential thing. >> actually. That's a good point. Everything stays here. We'll double. click on that in a bit. >> So now if you come back to other aspects. because technology software is one part. we have to build our own AI models.

>> Correct. >> Right. Right. >> Now we need our own drones. >> our own semiconductor. Actually we. invested in a drone company. >> Mhm. >> We need our own robotics. >> Drone company. uh drone company Tamil. Tamil uh aerospace. doing some good good work there. We need our own robotics robotics. We. invested in a few few robotics companies. invest in all of these core tech which. is very positive to see. So a simple.

motor. because motor now you need to work with. a drone. >> or medical equipment all of that for. example. machines or medical equipment supply we. in trouble. equipment today but we have to build. that IP. because today we cannot make our own. flights. >> we are dependent on others. >> True. So that means we have to build.

that knowhow. So opportunity is massive. There are thousands of other. opportunities out there. Software is not. the not the world. >> That is the that is open canvas. So. entrepreneurship is all about thinking. out of the box and now there is an. opportunity for India to step up and. provide all the technology. >> India at least has the capability and. the scale to do all of it. But.

and that is where. African countries will want the. technology. >> right. >> uh South American countries will want. the technology east Asian countries. technology so opportunity is there so. that's where massive opportunity but. technology. that is the the massive. Because it's not about trade.

because you're not trading something. else, >> right? >> It's about creation, >> making make and not not trade. So, historically, man, we focused on trade. >> and now it's about creating things, creating that intellectual property. >> Got it. We're talking about something. about everything stays here. >> Yeah. So, data economy low. That's an. interesting thing. M. >> even regulations data stays here.

>> Yeah. Let's say data is like a book. >> Regulation says data should be in the. country. >> Right. >> You'll call that person a model. >> Mhm. >> Okay. He reads the book. >> and then walks away with the knowledge. Knowledge left the room. intellectual property physically but. intellectual property knowledge walked. out of the country.

that is what's happening with AI so in. other words your data stays your. knowledge leaves. book let's say you're coke. secret formula. but secret formula. or you could be a pharmaceutical company. pharmaceutical company a drug formula. you connect it to a model book. knowledge walked out of the room. >> right.

>> so if I'm a pharmaceutical company I'll. build a model to keep the knowledge here. >> right. >> why should you depend on a third party. model. >> local service. >> and knowledge take an open source model. custom train then you can run it on your. your own servers it's not rocket science. it can be done Yeah. >> And and then you you figure it out. >> That is that is again another. opportunity.

>> That is actually the the right way to. approach it too. >> because. model not a believer in it. This is a. not to go off a tangent, it's a. monoculture problem. >> What I mean by that is again let's go. back to farming. >> Yeah. rows and rows of same trees replicated. over and over again, right? A same. concept.

basically stacks of cuboids put up on. top of each other. That's a monoculture. of of of cuboids of structure, >> right? So. take. a monoculture of food.

Right? Because. we come to monoculture of dressing, jeans, suit, t-shirt too and all that. the same jeans and t-shirt. >> So monoculture has come to farming, monoculture has come to construction as.

food and and has come to you know all of. these dressing. Now it's come to. thinking. >> model pretty much all the AI models are. built on the same data infrastructure. same data public data. >> right. we need a diversity in thinking. diversity in thought diversity in food. diversity in all of that forest doesn't. need a fertilizer but.

community mixed community you don't need. those silos. you siloed things, you have. a heart specialist, you have a. specialist and all of that. Nobody is. looking at the entire body and. holistically looking at it. >> You need a holistic approach to all of. it. holistically problem solvers. as to focus on zoom into it and all of. that.

>> AI models. We need a different set of. models. >> that think independently. >> solving solving a problem. >> I mean and models there is a concept of. mixture of expert essentially that's. what it is. >> Okay. >> And anyway that's a that's a subject. that'll go into it. But that is an. opportunity. We need to build our own AI. models without that knowledge leaving. the room because a knowledge is soy. because otherwise your intellectual.

property is walking out of the room and. you don't even know it. >> U yeah that's a tangent in in itself. >> Yeah. And uh when it comes to business scaling. I I probably observed that systems. we'll uh. we will not even understand what's. happening internally.

and the moment we realize that. when you're scaling up. because you you also. If you need to advise those founders or. those entrepreneurs who are actually. running good startups the importance of. data maybe to what their business needs. and structuring things everything. everything which which comes under this. uh systems and all we need to talk about. a bit. >> data is only one input.

>> you should not rely on data too much for. your decision there's always a human. One thing uh. conveys law. conveys law. >> what you ship. >> will basically be. uh replica of how your business. communicates. >> Okay. >> For example, accounting team,

marketing. They don't talk to each other. Customer. he will get that experience. >> Customer integrated experience. and all back end they are collaborating. with each other. >> Nice. It's a matter of time before that shows. up. So that's why the structure backend.

structure alone on the anidi extremely. important and if two people collaborate. with each other the customer will find. out at the at the front end. >> because customer experience is a. reflection of employee experience. >> 100%. >> So if the if the employee is happy. customer will be happy or the other way. if the customer is happy that means you. have happy employees. >> right? >> So it's a reflection. So now I would ask. the reverse and say customer experience.

provide. >> then work in the backwards and build. your structure that way because your. customer is the focus. Structure it in. such a way that you provide the. experience. >> then it'll flow through otherwise. internal silos will be exposed as. external experiences. M. >> that is the structure thing data all of. these facilitate facilitate. >> but those are the lagging indicators.

>> all right and a general question again. topreneurs whatever they do is a news. and. a lot of times they also fail maybe. >> in case if you need to talk about that. phase. They have the smartest people around. them. But why do they fail in their. decisions? What do you think is the. common reason?

A failure could happen multiple multiple. reasons especially product business. failures have are very common product. >> to some extent it's like making a movie. >> movies probably has what 70 80% failure. rate. >> product business. you may have 70 80 failure rate but.

you it it scales well. >> especially IP that becomes a history. >> it becomes a history right but. difference between that movie and and a. product is product has a bigger impact. movie industry. >> Take a movie industry as an example. Take Hollywood. Hollywood box office. worldwide roughly about 20 billion. >> Mhm. ticket sales in every country all movies.

combined about 20 billion. iPhone. they probably make about 200 billion. product is 10 times all of Hollywood. combined right. >> right. maybe film indry 200 300 million let's. say 300 maybe even 350 and million. >> product companies make that in maybe 2 3. months. >> so scale is different. >> but success rate is about the same.

>> right. >> so 20% success rate 20%. would you create a would you make a. movie or would you create a product. >> choose choose wisely opportunity cost. yeah because that is the that is also. the the opportunity here. aggressive because even you. just. is there any specific thought no. specific reason end of the day people.

the people who do. they have if they have to know about. Zoho they may know about Zoho. >> but like occasions like these. what is needed for the country is is. more important and end of the day what. is the purpose of a company. >> if it is to make money that's very. uninteresting. >> mm M. >> if finance is the is the root uh.

considered success that's not very. interesting. >> What is the broader purpose of the. company? It has to improve the society. that you belong to. >> Yeah. >> So it's like a plant where you you put. more into the ground. Somebody should be seeding it. >> Companies could you have to be seeding. for the betterment of the society. Not. just keep harvesting more more nutrients. out of the soil. you have to put more. nutrients into the soil. >> It's the same concept. So the purpose of.

Zoho is if we are able to make the. society around us better. >> then that would be mission accomplished. >> And at least for us numbers is money is. just a a data data point or number or. okay money is more like a like a patrol. M. >> you need money to get to a destination. but if your destination itself petrol. bank. >> is depressing.

>> It's depressing. >> As simple as that. Yeah. >> As simple as that. >> Yeah. So okay getting back to your AI. usage. >> Yeah. See I so I have a lot of lot of. agents doing a lot of and I built some. apps for myself that. >> I don't build apps for me to use. Mhm. >> I built apps for my agent so that it can. use the apps to keep me productive. >> Okay. >> So that's how I. >> Let me ask you something. What is the. smartest thing that your AI agents are. doing in your daily life in your work. life? >> Um. it's. for example you know I built an app for.

my farm. >> Mhm. >> Your farm has an India law. >> US lawm. have farm there and. >> just about 30 40 acres. >> Okay. just about. >> I mean roughly. >> okay. >> I mean in US scale slow it's. >> it's small yeah. >> it's small right and it knows plant. >> it can do the analysis and particular. plant it takes certain amount of. nutrients from the ground.

>> and nutrients replenish. they put back certain. nitrogen. if. alternate plants it'll rebalance and. then you don't need more pesticides and. fungicides and all of that amazing. >> that is what I try to do. >> because again not to go on a different. tangent we forget some of the basics. from our culture.

>> uh like take. there's a reason for it it's a It's. health. righting. It's called a miracle tree for a reason, >> right? >> It's extremely nutritious nutritious. one, right? or.

because by default it's uh it it is used. for anti- uh pests and all of that. because neem oil is used for it right. >> similarly. is basically. antimicrobial. But it's a by default it's a pest. repellent. >> There is a reason.

right. >> so no I train my agent so that e core. elements cultural elements. >> basics should not. >> basics should not be missed and when I. plant something you make sure that I. don't need a fertilizer. don't don't forget this. So we have. I do theului. I do all of that. So from rosemary to to.

whatnot they're all. >> I'm bad at that. >> Got it. >> But but that's the that's the point. Those are some of the usages. >> and models suddenly will get better. Today. >> they are we are going through an AI. bubble. Yeah, >> models are very very inefficient. >> It's actually right point to be. discussed. Yeah, AI bubble. What do you. mean by that? >> See. overhyped or is it like okay.

it is not the right place. What do you. mean by that? >> There are two things. It's very early in. the cycle. >> Very early in the cycle. >> Although we're talking about disruption. >> Yeah. Generally it takes any new. innovation is a chain of innovation. For. example. has to be in place right. cloud computing HTML 5 offline support.

we had to invent something called Ajax. and of course smartphones and all of. that then it came to yeah. >> web apps AI said we going through the. same. >> initially chatbased interface. now Now we got into some of the others. like tool calling and chindi. >> and we are getting a few more aspects. like mixture of experts or neoini. >> right. >> still a long way to go and history shows.

that the initial success companies are. not always going to be the long-term. success companies. >> like. previous bubble or. they predicted that The internet is. going to be the future and they invested. billions in fiber optic cable. >> right except fiber optic cable. they are not around to see the benefit. >> and you go all the way to railroad.

>> they said train is train and is is going. to be the future railroads are going to. be the future except railroad is no. they're not around to see this they were. all right. >> something yeah. >> that is likely going to be the case for. AI Because the companies that are that. are setting up these data centers and. all of them, they may not be around to. see the b to the success and reap the. benefits of it. >> But benefits are real. I'm confident. benefits are real. >> And why I say it early and because AI.

currently is very inefficient, >> inefficient. >> Inefficient. Okay. From from a power. angle. >> Yeah. Yeah. I understand. >> Simple example. you know it uses about 20 W of energy. >> Okay. Okay. Single Nvidia GPU uses. somewhere between 60 600 to 800 W of. energy. >> Those Nvidia GPU is about 30 to 40 times. inefficient than our brain.

>> Yeah. >> But a single Nvidia GPU is not enough to. replicate our brain. You need a thousand. of them. At least a thousand. So that. means brain single brain replicate that. is 30 to 40,000 times. >> inefficient. right and that is just for inference. train they have to put hundreds of. thousands to train it and all of that. but manu is learning and training and.

doing the inference at the same time. So. order of magnitude difference is massive. and computer history. there are things that can get 30 40. thousand times better even a million. times better a good example is a. transistor our transistors have gotten a. million times better. >> the the efficiency brain efficiency. itself will get really. really better one or two orders of. magnitude are easy one order of. magnitude 10 times to two orders 100.

times 100 times is easy. >> in In fact, Nvidia GPU themselves. hardware they are saying okay we can. make it two orders of magnitude better. and Nvidia itself is saying it. >> model side. the models themselves will get better. >> right. >> because mixture of expert and. distillation and these are all things. that we'll we'll go through and then. applications will get will get better. now you multiply all of these then you. get to say thousand times efficiency. >> and that is when the real applications.

will come in Because all of this is a. succession. You want two three years to. say this is AI and no it is going to get. lot better and the next 10 20 years are. going to be exciting. >> because distillation is an is an. important topic right.

they they distill that information and. give. models. >> basically models. and they keep keep distilling more. distillation the smaller the model. models will will become very very small. >> the ultimate distillation actually is. our DNA if you look at it DNA we can. recreate a person correct. less than 1 GB USB.

and generations thousands of generations. DNA is the ultimate distillation of the. expression. human DNA. model. right model destination is it is about. to happen. >> so model size will shrink model will. become power efficient and it'll be. running in everywhere it'll be on this. microphone it'll be on your phone it'll. be on your laptop and it'll be.

everywhere is central model. centralization again. companies would like to think that that. will be the thing I personally don't. believe that is the case I think it'll. be decentralized intelligence will be. commoditized. >> and it'll be available to everyone now. that's a that. different story but that's where and I. think it's very early in the cycle. >> for this I mean take your phone. Now the. latest version of the iOS has about a 8.

billion parameter model sitting on your. phone. >> 8 billion. >> 8 billion parameter right maybe next one. will have 16 next one will have 32. >> and it's a matter of time before it gets. better or latest Mac studio this. >> like if you take say M5 ultra this. >> it you can run a maybe a 1.2 and two. trillion model on that on that device. that can be sitting on your computer. >> It's available today and that is more. efficient and actually it goes on sale.

today 22nd. >> Right. >> So and so which means I think AI is. moving towards edge. >> Mhm. >> And that means entrepreneurs they can. create their own brain, their own mind, their own intelligence system, their own. model that is very very specific to them. and now innovate on it. That means own. IP. and that opens up a new equivalent to a. revolution AI revolution like a. historical industrial revolution that is.

a possibility now but. you have to take maybe an open source. model or create a model create your own. IP intellectual property and build your. own business on it because that is the. brain and outsourcing the brain is. outsourcing your thinking and. outsourcing your IP. So that's where you. have to build that up and I think the. path is clear that. intelligence is going to change the. world. >> You want to be part of it or not. And.

that is also a pathway to sovereignity. >> Do you want to be sovereign or not? If. you want to be, it's in your hands. >> And that's the modernday entrepreneurs. opportunity. I wish I was 25 again so. that I can I can take a risk for the. next say 20 30 years. >> What what is your note to the 25 years. old Rajua? >> If at all you get a chance. >> keep creating products and IPS you know. when I got started I'm glad I got into. products myself and but.

take more risks and and create more. products. >> uh and create IP. >> IP. >> uh because that leads to sovereignity. M. >> and it's been 30 years you've been uh. associated with this. >> about yeah 25 20 plus yeah. >> yeah more than half my life yeah. >> exactly so see without growth without. respect uh without uh learning ability. and all your own.

>> that's that's inevitable that's the. beauty of having great experience in the. same empire or an entity for such a long. time. or complex thing or something which only. you know about maybe not just your. personal life. what you have observed. >> Yeah. one, it's never easy, right? >> But you have your own discussions, you.

have your own debates, >> but that's where the fundamental culture. of the company comes in. >> As long as you're debating ideas. >> and not people. >> Now, this is connecting to the first. point we discussed. >> Exactly. Mutual respect. end of the day. you know you respect a person. >> and you.

do that that comes from respect actually. idea is different from this. So the. reason. just stick around for a long time is is. is that where respect each other. >> goals are simple. >> and money is just a number. M. >> right and uh wealth is different thing. the way I look at it is see. >> health is wealth. >> absolutely. >> now then wealth is you're happy.

>> you're you're healthy you have a good. family and you're surrounded by a good. set of friends that means you're very. wealthy. >> and once those are taken care with. fellow wealthy people with the same. value system and working towards a. common goal on creating IP, creating a. better society. >> Everything else is a is just a noise. around it. >> Absolutely. >> So that is how we look at it. And the. kind mindset.

just we enjoy the journey. Again. just that gas in the gas station. Target. is not going to the gas station. now. you have all that good power. you're able to kick it up. >> but a lot of times. I I don't want to name any companies. there are a couple of things happened. like employees.

they also went far away at the same. whatever they have done a lot of stuff. right. >> just in case loyalty. after this. having that. mutual respect even after leaving the. company. you need to talk about and if you want. to talk about what happened. >> yeah I mean generally last. >> there are very few controversies about.

yeah see any company grows like a banyan. tree and Right. So they they keep. expanding. >> The ones that align with the values, >> they are in for a journey. >> for example idea disagree and you go in. a different route. >> and it can be influenced by their. personal journey personal what not and. if that is the best thing for them. that's good. So that is common in any industry.

like take Honda. if Mr. Honda did not agree with say. Toyota Honda because he worked in. Toyota. They may not agree with the Honda. founder and whatnot but they have a. different idea and then it's it's it's. blossoming. >> right. >> see anything.

>> and that is the that is the the cycle. >> part of the game. >> part of the game. Yeah. >> Then controversies, it's a it's a waste. of brain cycles. So we don't pay too. much attention to that. >> Got it. Got it. And I think uh I read it. in your articles only and at the same. time you are the right person maybe. you are the right person to answer this. also. >> Somewhere you mentioned that uh. investors are the least loyal uh. stakeholders of the company. Is that. what you mentioned?

>> Somewhere around around. Yeah. That's. sounds about right. technical that's. that's also the truthong. Yeah. >> But if you just need to double click on. it. >> See uh one fundamental thing every. entrepreneur should ask themselves who. is their customer. Who is their customer and who is their. real customer? But there's there's a. difference because in a lot of money.

there is a person to whom you sell a. product or a service. >> but then there is a person who you are. answerable to. >> right. So you think. product service. but real customer is your investor that. is reality. because every quarter customer you don't. do a quarterly report. but public every quarter every quarter.

public report if you're a public company. you have to do it. >> so your real customer is that. >> and that applies across the board may. maybe picking a few names for example. Let's say you're an ad company. >> Now you take something like a Google, right? You think you are Google's. customer, >> but Google's customers are really. advertisers. >> Oh no. >> Right. So who is the real customer? Important. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's where.

clarity peace of mind. Our customer is. our real customer. So that's why we do not do ads in our in. our products. Okay that will be create a. conflict of interest and we don't want. to deal with the conflict revenue you. can generate more revenue. >> but see um. >> purpose also changes. >> purpose also changes yeah so u financial. profitability doesn't mean anything if.

we are morally bankrupt. >> because advertisers then we have to sell. our customer information to the. advertiser. >> and customers promise we are not going. to sell your information. >> So then you're standing on it. >> You're standing on it. >> You can make more money out of it by. selling that. No, but it we don't we. won't be able to sleep well at night. >> And again, sleeping well at night is the. most important thing that piece of mind. >> and data. There's a long it's always a gray area.

Yeah. You talk about every other day. there's a lawsuit there. Yeah. That's it's a it's just. Yeah. And that data part in the AI side, it gets into another level especially. Yeah. it they get a lot more information.

than they think they you may sign a. contract saying that hey uh we are not. going to train on your data but that's a. different thing you particular data pa. personal information identifying. information there are ways to identify. it you know what I just feel example. yeah example. just in Gmail.

Yeah. Yeah. So it's local. It's like. >> everything is fed there. >> Everything is there. That's the more. reason to have the local model that is. very specific to model. So see that's. where one of the opportunity I see in in.

AI is. models are going to be local. >> Mhm. >> And on your device that are very very. specific to you that doesn't leave you. >> right and as specificity when creation. becomes easy. >> Mhm. >> then. that'll that means you'll create a lot. >> Right. >> I think a creation will will touch on. that tangent. There is another aspect to. it. when creation becomes easy because AI.

can create a lot of things. >> that means. but each of our DNA each of our body is. different. >> reacts differently. >> but if creation is is easy then maybe. we'll have our own drugs very specific. to our own body type for every single. individual so model will be your own. model that is in your control and the. same way it'll apply to every single. aspect of of things because creation is.

becoming easier. Now. what we are really selling. is trust. >> Yeah. >> You're you're not selling software. You're try selling trust because. because you trust them. >> Right. Same thing with data. Data is. money. Mundu used to trade gold. Now you're tra. trading data. Data is a digital version. of the gold, right? >> And you want to keep it safe.

>> Yeah. >> In a safe. So now you only trust your. data with a company whom you trust. >> So now the new currency is trust. That. is the that is the thing. >> Straight. >> Now going to the tangent again. I don't want to go very very macro but I. don't mind. is a observation general broader. observation. one thing you notice is everything.

right. the distribution has become very cheap. right. >> because you stop creating here because. distribution is become cheaper, right? >> If you look at it at a global trade. level, containers, >> the the invention of a container made. distribution easier. For example,

for example, still cheaper than. so the distribution has become so cheap. >> right. >> that the creation moves to the cheaper.

countries countries with a lot of. capital lot of people lot of right the. physical version because containership. changed it. >> the digital. The internet created made the. distribution cheap. >> Outsourcing was born. because uh distribution was cheap. So. creation was is moved to India.

>> So physical version shipping container. distribution. that really created globalization if you. look at it from a from a macro point of. view. Right. >> now here is the twist. Now creation is becoming cheaper. AI is making creation cheaper. >> and humanoids are going to make creation. physical creation of atoms cheaper. AI. is making the creation of digits. cheaper. >> What does it mean? That means creation.

might move close to the customer, >> right? >> What are its implication on on. outsourcing? What are its implication on. on local market? That is a challenge yet. to be tossed. >> And if I'm an entrepreneur, if creation. is is cheap, let's say in India, I'll. create for India. >> because the market is about one and a. half billion strong, >> right? >> And that's about almost 20% of the. world's population. >> Create what the local crowd needs and.

that's an opportunity of a lifetime. >> 100%. It's it's a fascinating world again. that's where every but understanding. history projecting the future navigating. this. >> that is the exciting time because now. >> you can hire 10 AI agents and and create. things you like I have a farm agent that. is doing things I have a I have a. shopping agent that is looking for me.

for for deals for me and I say hey go. look for a coupon code to apply it and. it finds me a coupon code and that pays. for my agent. >> Mhm. >> Crazy. >> Yeah. I mean, I probably saved at least. $100 in the last one week because I. shopped online and he phoned me a coupon. code that works and then I and prepared. the card for me and I checked out. >> I think you you'll have to rent it out. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Great time. Thanks a lot. We'll. have to do this very often.

Definitely. I enjoy the conversations. end of the day it's about sharing ideas. >> uh like mind like-minded people and and. exchanging ideas I think and this. distribution can actually take it to the. needful people. exactly exactly point you mentioned. starting fundamentally that's exchange. of ideas.

hierarchy distribution. King. maybe they can reach 200 people. >> Each person can reach another 200 people. and all of that. >> Then. microphone loudspeaker then we we. shorten the layers. >> Now internet once you publish it you. have millions of viewership out there. that shortens it. the information cycle. is is is shrinking and that means uh the. pace at which you can learn.

>> and innovate is really growing up. >> and that changes the entire dynamics of. it. So this is the most exciting time in. in the technology industry. >> Thanks a lot. Thanks a lot for coming. >> No, thank you. It's uh it's good to good. to be here as as always. Yeah. >> Absolutely. >> Yeah. Looking forward to it. Thanks a. lot. >> This time we'll host you. >> Sure. Thank you. >> Yeah. Thank you.