Vijay Mallya Podcast: Rise & Downfall Of Kingfisher Airlines, Loans & RCB | FO364 Raj Shamani

Mr Mallya is out of the country. Liquor baron Vijay Mallya, who finds himself in a raging ₹9,000 crore loan default scam. Welcome on Figuring out sir. Why are you doing this after 9 years? In India, public opinion is very quickly formed and influenced, by the media. He is a thief, he ran off with the money. What money? What loot? Hi, I'm Vijay Mallya. It's not just huge, it is humongous. Nothing else comes close,

Kingfisher is a class apart. Vijay Mallya case. You were the biggest airline in the country. Welcome aboard, Kingfisher Airlines. India's biggest airline. Going to be there, amongst the best airlines in the world. What went wrong? So, I went to Shri Pranab Mukherjee, then finance minster of India, I have to downsize this airline. I was told. not to downsize Kingfisher at that time. You continue, the banks will support you. That is how it all started.

Kingfisher Airlines has been forced to suspend all of its flights. "Vijay Mallya, shame on you.". Kingfisher Airlines has been struggling. At the time when you asked for a loan, the company was not doing that great. Please never forget, I gave my personal guarantee. So, all this narrative of thief, does a thief ever give personal guarantee? People give you this kind of loan against collateral, they took shares of Kingfisher Airlines at double the price. There's again a statement that. your international employees were getting paid but your Indian employees were not.

The company in India had no money, there was UB's money of ₹260 crores. with the bank, under the control of the government of Karnataka. Court said no. Multiple international courts, Switzerland authorities one of the courts from UK. they have also found you guilty for misrepresentation of funds. Do you ever feel sorry that you couldn't do anything? I apologize publicly to everyone for the failure of Kingfisher Airlines.

Here is what pissed people off, that in your private life you were enjoying, you had a grand birthday party, your 60th birthday party. Do you think you shouldn't have done that party? Why? Somebody mentioned. that you took out 35 million Euros. and invested in buying properties in France. Rubbish. What happened between 2012 and 2015? I made 4 settlement offers to the banks which they refused to accept. 2015 CBI started investigating you,

they found you siphoning the money. 3rd March, 2016, case needs to be. heard or needs to be represented in front of the supreme court, 2nd March, you left the country. On 15th April, your suspension came for your passport. and 24th April was the revocation, why didn't you reply? I'd like to show you something. Here is... What is the biggest challenge.

of doing business in India? Government. It's in the Indian DNA. But how did you manage that before? Would there ever be exchange under the table as well? I'm not going to confirm or deny that because I leave it to your imagination. How do you make money now? Do you feel restricted now? What's your biggest fear now? Are you prepared for the worst? Have you ever imagined yourself actually going to jail? Would you be willing to return to the country if you're assured. fair trial? If I am assured, absolutely, I will think about it seriously.

But... This episode is not about glorifying a fugitive, nor it is about justifying any wrongs, it's about. asking the hard questions. to the man at the center. of one of India's most controversial financial stories. After 9 years of complete media silence, Vijay Mallya chose our podcast Figuring Out. to speak publicly.

for the first time. I didn't do this podcast to celebrate him, I did it. because I was curious. I read this tweets, I heard the headlines. but I never heard. the full side of the story, because the tweets that he makes. are different than what the headlines talk about him, there's a mismatch. As a podcaster, my job is to ask. every uncomfortable question. And I did. Vijay Mallya claims he never committed fraud. He says he wanted to pay back the loans,

that his properties were seized and sold. and that he's being framed. He also says he's ready to face the consequences, whatever they may be. if he's given the fair chance of trial. I've tried to cover his childhood, business building, the man behind the image, the rise, the fall, the good, the bad and the ugly, the life before and the life now. I'm not here to decide who's right or wrong, I trust the Indian judicial system to do that. This conversation. is for those who want to listen, think and question.

It's not about taking sides, it's about understanding all sides. Watch this episode. with utmost sincerity. and let me know in the comments, what you think. Welcome on figuring out sir. Thank you for. doing this. and. my objective. of this whole podcast.

is going to be that. I want to know your side of the story. There are so many things that we have heard, there are so many things which. are probably right or wrong. I don't know what's going on. and I think apart from me there are millions. of Indians who want to know the same thing. You're highly talked about. I also feel. that. there are so many things which people have just. heard and started building their own narrative about you. So, I wanted to...

Out of. A, Inquisitiveness, curiosity, and, B, out of. a responsibility, I want you to take this forward. So, thank you so much for doing this and thank you for giving us an opportunity. and the best thing which I really like. about this is. when you came here and you said, I'm ready to. answer everything which you. want to talk about. I don't think many people give that opportunity. So, thank you for doing this. But. the first question is,

why are you doing this after 9 years? There are. thousands of people who must have reached out to you. over the years, why all of a sudden the need after 9 years, that okay, I'll say yes, and yes to us, why? Very good question. Nice place to start. For the last 9 years I have been the subject. of a vicious, relentless, trial by media,

in India. Who, as you have rightly pointed out. have. created so many narratives, negative narratives about me, that I have become. a lightning rod of public anger. Being abused, called names, and. that was very unfortunate, both professionally and personally. So, rather than. try and take on,

this huge Indian media machine, I just prefer to keep quiet. Now times have changed. and I can't help recalling, that when president Trump was inaugurated, in the first. press briefing by the white house press secretary, she said that a few seats. were now going to be reserved, for the very first time,

for people who represented new media. or. social media. I didn't even know that a podcast existed, let alone. understanding what a podcast really meant, until. you told me and explained it to me. in a manner that. I got quite excited about it, because here is my opportunity. to not only answer your questions.

but to say things. that I. truly feel. would never ever have. been. truthfully reported. by the legacy media, particularly in India. That's why I'm here. Why do you think. nobody cared about hearing you then? In India. it's strange. But public opinion is very quickly formed and influenced.

by the media. More importantly by sensationalism. I still remember the anchor of one. media channel. in 2016, shouting and screaming on the television, saying Vijay Mallya, I want to see you in jail clothes, I want. to see you eat jail food, with an image. of me. in.

jail attire. What for? I always wondered what for? Subsequently. thief, took the money and ran away, what money? What loot? Nobody bothered to step back and think. but it was very easy to fling. false accusations. day after day. and get away with it.

Another reason. I agreed to. sit with you today, is also because it is only very recently, that finally, the government of India, ministry of finance has published a report, their annual report in which. they have. acknowledged ₹14,100 crore recovered from me. Of course, this was following. the finance minister's statement in parliament. and.

the legacy media can't argue with that anymore. They can't put any spin on it anymore. Their debt recovery tribunal. gave a judgment that ₹4,999 crore, was. borrowed by Kingfisher Airlines, not by Vijay Mallya. Borrowed by Kingfisher Airlines of which Vijay Mallya was one of the guarantors. So, what is the DRT judgment debt? ₹4,999 crore.

plus. ₹1203 crore unapplied interest. Okay? Which means notional interest that the banks had not even booked. Forget that, the total of the unapplied interest and the principal was 6. 2. 03. crore. Okay? And I was a guarantor. The government has recovered fourteen thousand one hundred crore from me. Right?

Now, if I had. done robbery, if I had. duped the banks, where. does this all add up? Till. very recently, there was absolutely no official. figure of recovery. Right? So everybody, the legacy media in particular, wrote whatever they wanted.

Right? And I was in no position to contradict. Today. after the government of India has acknowledged the. recovery ₹14,100 crore, I think it's my turn to ask them what they have to say about it. Because you say that. a lot of things about you are false narrative. Let's go down to it, from your childhood. We speak from the beginning, and you tell me everything that people have been said... people think that's wrong, and I'll try to present.

the facts and the narratives which. I have heard and which I've gathered through my research. Alright. And if you're okay with counter somewhere, I'll counter you as well. Oh, no, please, please feel free to counter me. If there's something that you feel is debatable or you want to make a counterpoint I'm ready for it. Perfect, because I feel that's my little responsibility out there. to. hear the right side and wrong side, both, and let people think about it then, and let them make the right call. That's fair.

Perfect, so, before I even ask you about your childhood, do you, do you regret anything? I regret one thing. which is, that after all my hard work, all the value that I created. in so many multiple ways, that. effectively the Government of India. and of course the media. made me.

a zero from a hero. And that's. a fact of life that I have had to stomach. and live with. Now whether that was justified or not is something that I'm sure. will be encompassed in your own questions. Zero from a hero. Let's. talk about building of a hero first. and we'll come down to zero again. So, before. the billionaire Vijay Mallya, before the controversy, before all of this.

flamboyance and scandals and things that people talk about, who was Vijay Mallya the child? Where were you born? What did you do? How was your childhood? Tell me about it. Born in Calcutta, moved to. hometown Bangalore, went back to Calcutta, did my schooling there, did my college education there in Calcutta. And. my upbringing under my father.

was very normal. I would say strict. upbringing. Really? Yes. Tell me an incident, strict childhood. 2 things, when I was still in school, class 9 at La Martiniere Calcutta, my marks were not very good in class, I was. a mid ranker. Only because I took a lot of interest in sport and. extracurricular activities,

I didn't try and, you know, concentrate fully on studies and. my mark sheets. And he told me, and. I think most people know it, he was exceptionally intelligent. I was a product of the doom school. And he topped his class, so, he expected me to also top my class. Nevertheless, he said something. to me which. I think I remember till today.

2 things. made a profound impact, 1, if you're not good enough, you are not going to step into my shoes. And the second thing he said, he said, do you realize. that while I say step into my shoes, there may not be any shoes at all.

Because the government and it's then socialist policies. may. have taken everything away from us, and the only thing I can leave to you is your education, so take it seriously. I think I repaid. some amount of faith. because. for my last 3 years in school, 9th, 10th, 11th, I think I. came within the top 3 in class and he was quite happy about that. So, weren't you a little spoilt as a child?

Spoilt, oh my God, I was anything but spoilt. Really? Yeah. You had all the fancy toys, you had all the things... Absolutely no fancy toys at all, that's completely false narrative. I, after I. passed out of school. and when I went to St. Xavier's college to study B.Com, my father was very clear, you go to college at 6 o'clock in the morning.

and when you finish at 10:30, you go and work a full day at the office. As a management trainee. I was put on a stipend of 400 rupees a month. and that 400 rupees. never increased, right the way. my time through college. So, that's all I got, 400 rupees a month. and I was working, in those days PHIPSON AND CO. LIMITED, old courthouse street in Calcutta,

every day. after college. Aren't there stories that you used to go to college. in a very fancy car. and you removed the silencer just to show the, the noise of your car, the loudness of your car, and you were always a show off, weren't you? I was no show of at all and the fancy car I had. was a second hand standard Harold. So where are these stories coming from? I don't know, it's people's narratives, people's perceptions, that's why it's important to correct those perceptions.

You know, talking about noise, even a Bullet in Delhi makes a hell of a lot of noise. You don't have to drive a. fancy car make noise down the street. So, you are telling me that. all these stories of you having a, of you having fancy toys, remote control cars, and then. fancy cars with loud noise, all of this is false? Well. I may have tampered with the silencer of my car.

Okay. Because I was always into kind of fast cars, loved motor racing and stuff like that, but you know, I mean, it still remained a standard Harold. -But why did you do that? Like just to show off noise and everything? -No, no, no, no. Look if you can modify the silencer of a car, like you can modify the top end of your car's engine, to make it go a little quicker. I mean that's some, the the basics of motor sport. But how were you as a.

child, like personality wise, were you confident? Were you a little arrogant? You know, I, look, this is all. a question of perception. Arrogant is also, your understanding of arrogance, my understanding of arrogance, but I'll tell you one thing, I was always self-confident. and. whenever I was invited. to give talks at various universities and educational establishments,

I always told the youngsters that when they start off life, they must be self-confident. because it is. only self-confidence. that will bring out the best in you. And I still believe that. till today. And because I started young, I am passionate about youth empowerment. But this would have not been the case always, as a kid we all have like a lot of.

insecurities, it's not always confidence, what was your biggest insecurity. when you were growing up? I don't... Yeah, probably the biggest insecurity was when. the examination results were due. and what my dad would have to say about it. But, no, beyond that. you know, my life was pretty plain and simple. Great bunch of school friends, great bunch of. college buddies.

in Calcutta. Not the glitzy lights of Bombay. And yeah, so, it was pretty normal but. nothing fancy. But I had a very strict set of supervisors at work. who were. clearly instructed by my father to be tough with me, to make sure, I worked my butt off. and. I'm. none the happier. for it. That's what made me.

But did you. ever. get to a position or in a thinking as a child. that. one day I'll be powerful. One day I'll be very rich. No, absolutely not, I mean, how could I be so presumptions, here I had a dad. who was hands-on, working 24/7, young, and. who told me that if I didn't measure up, I'd have no place in the business.

So, I couldn't be presumptive, could I? But your father was a wealthy man, in those times. there are only a few wealthy people. So, you would, presume this, right? Like, I will have all this wealth inherited, I'll be. maybe bigger than my father or maybe just have all of these things. I didn't have any such aspirations. in those days. and wealth was something that was very relative. and my father certainly was. a very frugal spender, so,

irrespective of how much wealth he had. he certainly wasn't a spender. You said when you used to go to work. your father put strict supervisors. What would those strict supervisors made you do? Well, first of all, made sure that I came to the office on time. straight after college. It wasn't as if I'd. sort of roll up whenever I wanted to. Okay. The second, I was given a. clear set of tasks.

I was a salesman, I had to go and visit the shops in the markets, I had to visit distributors, I had to. spend time with the accounts department to understand accounting, corporate accounting. Yeah, and marketing, you know, sit with the agencies and stuff like that. So, it was a comprehensive training program but with no. forgiveness in any sense, I had to work a full day,

I couldn't sort of get up and go. or. come when I liked. Which was fine, I mean, looking back. it was a great grounding. What happened next? You were in Xavier's, you started going to work. and then you went to states. Yeah, my dad sent me off to the states to work for American Hoechst. Okay. American Hoechst then it became Aventis, and now the pharmaceutical company, the global company is called Sanofi.

So yeah, I was sent there, worked there, once again, as a management trainee, then I was brought to England. to work in. Jenson and Nicholson, I was a paint foreman, in the paint factory, it used to be. mixing paint at night. And. yeah, I mean, I slowly understood. what my father's methods were.

What were his methods? Which is basically a strict. training regiment. And. I did pretty well because I can tell you he expressed. He expressed. his appreciation for my work, I got. a pretty good. report card from. America, he said he was proud of me. I did well here in England, mixing paint.

And. when I went back to India. his health. was becoming indifferent, even though at that time he was only 57 years old. His health was becoming indifferent, he had a history of. heart disease, so, he sort of. got me to work. for him, in the core business. And.

yeah, then of course, the story of Kingfisher, the story of McDowell's No. 1, Bagpiper and all these. brands that subsequently. became very well known, began then. How is your relationship with your father? The relationship with my father was excellent. He was a man of few words. but there's one thing he did, which embarrassed me to no end, that every time he saw me, he gave me a big kiss on my cheek.

Whether it was at an airport, or in the office, or at home, he'd. give me a hug and a. big kiss on the cheek. I mean. bless him for that. Was he... did he ever doubt you that you will be able, whether you will be able to. continue and build his legacy on? I think the biggest certificate I got was from. my bosses in America. and they. gave me a pretty good certificate,

a pretty good report and that. finally, I think gave him the confidence to say, yeah, my son is stepping up to. my expectations. What was your first bold step in your father's company? Oh, Kingfisher. I went to my father and I said, I need 10 lakh rupees to market Kingfisher beer. He said, that's a princely sum of money, what are you going. to do with it? How are you going to do it, etc. Because I saw,

in the archives of United breweries, this label of Kingfisher beer which had been. actually launched in 1857. Okay? Gathering dust and. you know, with a. pretty archaic. Kingfisher bird on it, sort of prehistoric version. But I said to myself, the mere. word, brand, Kingfisher, is very evocative in so many ways it could be made into a fun brand.

Now, my time in Calcutta, going back to my training days when I spent time with. the marketing. department, more importantly. interacted with. the people in the advertising agencies. My time in America. where, you know, I still remember. the 2 big banks, which are Bank Of America and Citibank, and Citibank said the city never. sleeps and Bank Of America came out.

saying we caught the city napping. You know, that was the level of marketing, advertising, tongue in cheek stuff. which caught your attention, and so I. became fascinated with marketing. and I came away, back to India, started working in the business and I always said, a brand needs a personality. Of course, I very quickly realised, in India, I couldn't. replicate what they did in America.

because. for alcohol, India is a media dark environment, where the. advertising of alcohol is banned. So, in a way, I had to think of ways of authoring. surrogate advertising. Which I did pretty successfully. You know, not some Mickey mouse stuff, where if you want to advertise an alcoholic brand that you sort of suddenly,

you know, produce some music sets. I built a full water business around Kingfisher. and the water business of. significant enough size, that you could justify advertising it. And therefore, you advertise the core brand. So, I gave Kingfisher a very colorful personality.

because. that's what evokes you. You know? Like McDowell No. 1, 'golden moments, McDowell moments', it's evocative, it's supposed to convey that. if you want to hang out and have a good time with your friends, golden moments, well, it's a McDowell moment. So, there were many, many such examples.

of how I actually gave brands their personalities. and. in many ways I supplemented by becoming the brand ambassador myself. And all of this was happening when your father was still alive? Well absolutely, absolutely. You said, India was media dark. when it comes to alcohol, which still is the reality. and there was a point where I think government banned alcohol.

No, no, no, no. -Or what was that...? -Certain states introduced prohibition, such as Andhra Pradesh, unified Andhra Pradesh. Of course, Gujarat has always been dry. but the. advertising of alcohol is banned in India, and has been banned and still is banned. When was that, when was. this time when you started acquiring a lot of alcohol brands, because. a lot of those brands were scared of the state because the state.

was getting involved in the alcohol business or maybe. they wanted to ban or prohibit certain things. What was this time. where you started acquiring certain alcohol brands. in cheap because you and your father were bullish on it? No, no, no, no, that was in 1977, when Morarji Desai was the Prime Minister of India. and he. publicly announced that there should be prohibition all over India. Okay. Okay? Which means that alcohol should be banned across the country. So obviously, the stocks, the value of the stocks and shares.

of. almost all alcoholic beverage companies, whether distilleries or breweries. fell. My father was very clear. that. prohibition could never succeed in India. and therefore. he bought. and, so that's how. we became number one by quite a fair distance. Because all those who panicked and sold out,

my father acquired. But was there something you guys knew which. others didn't or was it just pure conviction? No, it was just pure conviction because. we knew that. prohibition had not even succeeded in the United States. And plus if you look at the amount of. revenue generation, for the state governments, through the sale of alcohol, there is no way in the world that prohibition would have succeeded in India.

What happened after. your father's death? You were doing this successful thing, you are taking bold. steps, you wanted to make alcohol a cool brand, all of this was happening, everything was going right, right? What happened then? Well. I was in, I was in the US, I had gone to finalize. promotion and export of Black Dog scotch whisky, When.

my father sadly. passed away at a cocktail party in. then Bombay. And. he was only 59. Nobody ever expected. him to pass so young. I was just. past 27, so, I took the Air India flight and. flew back from New York. and performed my father's last rites.

Then. the fun began because. my father surrounded himself with. a few stalwarts. Meaning? People who he put in. positions of great authority, who were also. very close to him, personally. So, he had.

somebody running. the Western India businesses, somebody running the Eastern India businesses, somebody running the Southern India businesses. And don't ever forget, in those days the. structure was that United breweries limited was the. holding company. and the other companies of the group were largely. controlled. by it's largest shareholder United breweries or they were subsidiary companies.

And so, the inevitable debate started on what next. What. role I should have, of course, people acknowledged that I was in the business. but. people I think were a little reticent to speak openly about. their own aspirations of. being the chairman. Then something very funny happened, we had.

annual meeting of shareholders. was coming due. The shareholders in the front line who had seen me with my dad, proposed my name, and that's how. all other aspirants were. silenced. because they couldn't publicly. get up and say that they were more qualified,

particularly when. it was evident I had shareholder support. And there I was, I was installed in what I call the hot-seat, at a very young age, but. fortunately, thanks to my. upbringing, my father's insistence. on proper training, familiarization with the business, time in America, time working with him, I wasn't. raw,

I. had. a fair amount. under my belt, to be able to address the challenge of. the role. I was reading an article where, it said that. you didn't. trust people who were in control at the time of your father's, when your father was the chairman, so, that's why, you hired your. people and your friends, because. you didn't know if you could actually go to them for the right advice or no.

No, no, that's. completely misleading, its false, I never hired any of my. friends, but... let's put it this way, they would have been too young and inexperienced, in any case. You know, I mean, as I said, I was barely 28, they would be my contemporaries, so, the question of. hiring them and putting them in management positions just didn't arise. But I encouraged a lot of professionals from within. I mean, people who then became the president of the Spirits.

division, of the British division and all the rest of it. I mean, my father's time, the average age. of the regional. directors or the regional satraps was probably. around 60, between 60-65. And in 5 years, after I reorganized, I mean the average age was about 40. Okay? And these were all professional managers promoted from within the ranks.

I mean, yes, there were a couple of exceptions, where I hired people. from extremely well-known organizations, like major consultancy. firms, so on and so forth but beyond that, largely it was all. internal promotion. Compare... Give me differences between. before... Okay, so, when your father was. the chairman. versus when you were the chairman. Give me 3-4 differences, what happened in United breweries?

It was the entire approach, for instance, mine was a decentralized, accountability led approach... Okay. I would have monthly. operating review meetings called MORs, for each line of business. Okay. And. this all I wanted to know about how the businesses were performing. on a. regular day to day basis, I wasn't. leaning over the shoulders of.

the management team. and trying to micromanage things. When opportunities came along. then of course we'd have separate discussions. So, if you empower people. accountability comes along with it, because people are also. motivated to demonstrate their own capabilities. Now my father's style was, as I said,

far more hands-on, owner operated, micro management style. and he spent a lot of time doing it. I had a lot of free time. as... I will tell you as we proceed because, because of this decentralization and this whole. new. management culture. that I had... Enough time in your hands. Introduced in in the UB group. And this was between let's say 1983 and 1986-87.

That is why I was able to then. acquire the Berger paints global business, based here in the UK. and actually become a non-resident Indian. In 86? 88. Eighty... okay. Yeah. And I still have a letter from the Reserve Bank Of India confirming. that from 1988, I would be treated as a non-resident Indian,

for tax and exchange control purposes. And the reason. and, of course that. obviously meant that I couldn't spend more than 180 days in India. but. the luxury of spending 180 days out of India, running this new. opportunity in international business... Paints business. I was able to do it only because of the decentralized.

management structure implemented in India. So, both. the foreign businesses and the Indian businesses ran very well. Give me differences and similarities between. Vittal Mallya and Vijay Mallya. Well. Vittal Mallya has. thought. hundred times about spending money, Vijay Mallya probably thought twice. Yeah, well, you know, I guess it's age.

It's aspiration, it's age, it's. different. styles and outlook on life. Was there any difference in terms of. public. attention as well? -You were pretty loud, your personality was... -I... No. Look, once again, you can think whatever you want to think of me and so can the whole world. Just because I'm a self-confident guy.

who is not afraid of public speaking, who doesn't suffer from stage fright, if you want to say. that I am. arrogant, flamboyant, go ahead and say it, I can't deny it. My father was very shy. of public speaking. Totally the opposite, I'm a very confident public speaker, I used to debate in school. I used to participate in drama in school.

So, I can speak. So, you didn't want public recognition you loved speaking? No, well if somebody asked me a question or I was invited to speak, I'd speak. and people would, in some cases. tell me I'm talking nonsense and. in most cases say, they liked my speech. But I was able to communicate. from a platform.

But when you speak certain things, and tweak your speeches in a way that. it becomes headlines. I never look for headlines, I never ever look for headlines, the headlines were created around me by the media. You know, you just take the case of flamboyance, and let's spend a minute on analyzing flamboyance. To me. flamboyance means.

loving life. and appreciating the good things in life, that's what flamboyance is. In a public way. Okay. That is what I would. say. is the meaning of flamboyance. How old was I when my father died? 28. Compare me to other industrialists in India at that time, I was 28, I was chairman of UB group. Who was the chairman of RPG enterprises?

Mr. Rama Prasad Goenka. Who was the chairman of Reliance? Dhirubhai Ambani. Who was the. chairman of the Birla group? Mr. BK Birla. I was a contemporary of their children. But. I was thrown into the deep end. So, I was. a group chairman, being compared to people who were my father's age.

Now, as a youngster, I had the. passions of young people. Like? I enjoyed. a good car. I. enjoyed. my drinks. I enjoy parties, I enjoyed music, I enjoyed sports. Not. all of.

my father's contemporaries, who. suddenly became my contemporaries in business, lived that way, they were more conservative, more at home, more domestic, consistent with their own age. So, suddenly the media decided, this guy, chairman of UB group is flamboyant. I was termed flamboyant only because I did. what every other youngster aspired to do. You know, I mean, at the end of the day,

you have to make allowances, age related allowances, let's put it that way. But. it's okay, I have no regrets, I didn't. spend anybody else's money, I spent my own. money, I lived my life the way I wanted to live my life. If I look back, I’ve got millions of miles. of corporate. experience under my belt, starting off at a very young age.

And. I hope people appreciate. the more positive. contributions that I have made, rather than the persistently negative narrative. that has overtaken and overshadowed. effectively a whole career. I don't think I ever use that word flamboyant. It was media. and the narrative they created around me that was flamboyant.

For their own purposes. Yeah. I just lived. like any other. moderately wealthy 28 year old would live. No. -Yeah, absolutely. -You lived a little extraordinary life. How can it be extraordinary? In what way? Do you know what the exchange controls were in India? Do you know if you could import a Ferrari in India? Today you can. But go back to. 1985-86, could you important a Ferrari? No way in the world.

So, did you or did you not? You could only buy cars from the state trading corporation, through an auction process in Delhi. But you ended up buying all of them. I could not. Later you bought it. Look, I like good cars. I race cars, I've been racing cars since I was a teenager. Okay. I brought a Formula 1 car into India to race, when my father was still alive. In fact, when I won the race at Sholavaram,

okay, then Madras now Chennai, I called him from the race track and said I won the race, he was very happy. So, it wasn't as if I was trying to do things behind people's back, but, okay, I was fond of motor sports back then. Okay, so it came from media, but did you enjoy the tag? Of flamboyant. Where did I have the time to enjoy or. spend my time and energy denying?

I just lived my life, did my work, and I think whoever you may ask, I worked really hard. See, this is very... Okay, this is very like a media answer, okay? What did... You were aware that people call you flamboyant, you were aware that this was the image. being built, you were aware that. this is what was written in the headlines. What was your reaction? Did you start, did you secretly enjoy it?

No way, I've... So, what was your reaction? The moment people would write it, you would ignore it? Of course, I would ignore it. What have I done for the last 9 years? -But at that time you were at your peak. -I mean look, let me tell you something. being. referred to as flamboyant, some people may take it as a compliment. but nobody. will tolerate. being called thief. Thief. Fugitive. Right?

These are damning words, I ignored all of it. because I knew I couldn't fight it. Much like I ignored flamboyance. I couldn't spend all my time devoted to contradicting what the media wrote. Yeah, and now... But... Okay. Let me also tell you, I referred to earlier, I said, you know, this whole. theme of flamboyance,

the media, if you'd see the pattern of their reportage on me, okay? I mean, they kept on writing things. which really, I thought these guys don't have anything better to do. Vijay Mallya threw a party. Vijay Mallya is hosting New Year's party at Kingfisher villa. Vijay Mallya is doing this, that and other things, okay? Bottom line is. they created. a narrative of a personality,

that's helped them to sell their own media. One day there was a terribly wrong, factually incorrect. article in one of the large newspapers in India. So, I called the owner, I said, how could you possibly. publish something like this without. checking the facts? What was it? Vijay, sorry bro, your name sells.

So, they created. this animal called Vijay Mallya. whose name started selling, so they could, they could, you know, get more eyeballs, more readership, more viewership. But be that as it may, I lived my life. What was my objective? I. am not apologetic for the life I lived, because I didn't spend anybody else's money except my own.

I didn't borrow one rupee. from anybody. Okay? I. was. much maligned, much complimented, but effectively, I was my own brand ambassador. Take the case of one. much talked about. phrase, 'king of good times.'.

Yeah. I'm not crazy. to walk around with a label. on my chest, 'the king of good times.'. Read, and this is where somebody must make the effort. See the label of the Kingfisher beer, that was developed. It says, 'the king of good times.'. The personality of Kingfisher beer.

was. 'the king of good times.'. But the media started calling me the king of good times. So, tell me, me being the king of good times. will not help sell the beer. But it did. Because the beer itself was the genuine king of good times. And. the personality that I gave Kingfisher, promoting sports, promoting fashion, promoting music,

sponsoring modern racing, so, all the stuff that's exciting to youngsters, that represented the personality of the Kingfisher brand. That's why Kingfisher. was such a success. But talk to me about building of Kingfisher. Don't you think it was a, like, at least that's what I think, it was a very well curated strategy, that I will become a brand which represents Kingfisher.

No, I was brand ambassador, and I have done it not only for Kingfisher but, take the case of our spirits business. I actually came on national television with an ad. encouraging people. not to drink and drive. I did it myself. I didn't get some film star. to do it, I did it myself. So, becoming a personal brand was a strategy then.

Of course it was. So then why does it bother you that you were... -Doesn't bother me, never bothered me. -tagged as the king of good times. But that's what I'm saying, I am not the person who labeled myself as 'king of good times.'. -It so happened, that the media started calling me the king of good times, fine. -You curated... Because subtly you curated this, right? I didn't curate king of good times. In what way? By. actually promoting a lifestyle which every young person would aspire to...

Why not? Young people are entitled. to aspirations. Young people are entitled. to improve lifestyles. Young people are. entitled to. treat themselves. Yeah, but. that doesn't mean I went around the whole world saying, well, you know what, I'm the king of good times. No way. Never said it even once. But you knew it will happen. No I didn't. How should I care?

I achieved my objective of making. Kingfisher the number one selling beer. That's it. How did that happen? What happened along the way is irrelevant. Okay, how did this happen? Kingfisher beer, how did it become No.1? Tell me Kingfisher's story. when I took over this business, Golden Eagle, of Mohan Meakin breweries, was the largest beer company in India. Today United Breweries ltd. controls almost 52% of the. beer market in India.

Kingfisher is... I mean, not many. product categories. can. lay claim to 52% national market share, but yeah, Kingfisher is by far the No. 1 selling brand. That's because, yes, I curated. a personality around Kingfisher, around fun, around excitement, around vibrancy, color. I created the brand and. I achieved my objective. You take the case of.

McDowell's No. 1, I mean, once again, this whole. 'Golden Moments, McDowell Moments'. right? It was. a little. more sober than the Kingfisher ads, because the target. demographic was different, but. it's the largest selling whiskey in the world today. McDowell's No. 1. Right? All these brands I created.

Tell me one. turning point which just made. everything good for you in Kingfisher. Kingfisher beer specifically. It's a sustained effort. But when was the first time you thought, okay, now it'll work because. -It was always working, as... -As far as... From day 1? Yeah, when I relaunched a new packaging, right? To make it more appealing on the shelf, started sponsoring music, fashion events,

got more brand. attention, automatically the sales started picking up. and then, you know, as we went along, promoting our. marketing strategy. which was clearly effective, the sales. followed. Same thing with McDowell's No. 1 whiskey, nothing's overnight. National brands are not built overnight. There wasn't one moment that you could pinpoint?

Or was there? How can you? How can you pinpoint a moment because it isn't like. switching on and off a light switch. Why did you get conviction. that. Kingfisher beer will work? Because it was a little expensive than other ones. We had brands. such as UB royal, Flying Horse, we had Jubilee. Now you tell me, even though they were my brands, does any one of these evoke any excitement in you? No.

But if I say Kingfisher, you take notice, right? So, that's the platform I built on. Alright? Similarly, as I said, I mean, you take the case of. McDowell's No. 1, it was. targeted at. a. slightly higher demographic, but. it went along with. more sophisticated.

merchandising and stuff like that, which. augured well for the brand, and today as the Indian economy has grown. as consumer spending power has gone up, it's world's biggest brand. Selling about 32 million cases, per year. What was the biggest challenge. in building of Kingfisher. beer. and McDowell's. I... Our everything was just painted red and it worked out for you?

No, no, there's nothing red about McDowell's, it's all black and gold. The only one around. that's red is Kingfisher. No, I think, more than challenges, I look at opportunities, I mean, in 2005, I bought Shaw Wallace my biggest competitor. I mean that propelled the spirits business, to No. 1 position by far. Brought onboard brands like Royal Challengers Bangalore and all the rest of it, so,

those were pretty. bold business decisions. Which once again, self-confidence, I had to pay 300 million dollars. for the company. Big amount of money. That made it work, that's how United Spirits was created, today with a. market cap of almost one lakh crores. So, you know, I mean, if you have the confidence to do it, you go to it. You said, you bought Berger paints at the same time.

Talk about that. Why paints all of a sudden? You were making money with alcohol. You were. minting profits out of alcohol, you were convinced that. brands like Kingfisher and then, at one point, other brands as well would work really well, which it did. Why. buy. a paint business? Like this is so... -The paint business... -bizarre. British paints in India, okay, which is now called Berger paints,

was. part of the Hex group. My father was chairman of British paints India. Okay. When he passed away, I became chairman of British paints India. During my tenure as chairman of British paints India, I learned something about the paint business. Right now...

What did you learn about paint business? Go back in time to what I told you, when I was sent. to America. and then to England, I worked as a foreman. in the Berger paints. Jenson Nicholson paint factory, here in this country. So, I not only knew. about. making paint. but also about how a paint business was run, because I was chairman of Berger paints.

So, when Hex group. decided to sell their global Berger paints. headquartered in England, operating in the Caribbean, operating in. Africa, in Asia, it is a. true multinational company. I went to them and. put together a. loan package with.

those days, the Hong Kong and Shanghai banking corporation. and bought it. Because I had this. aspiration of creating India's. first multinational. That was back. in 1988. Okay, so, from being. Indian centric business, I was operating in 25 countries worldwide, flying the India flag.

So, your objective is only that I want to take India. or Indian business. to the word? No, absolutely not, I, was. very focused on. making a hefty profit out of it too. Right? Which I successfully did. So, I bought it in a leverage buyout. and after that.

I did IPOs. I did IPOs in Jamaica, I did IPOs on the Kenyan stock exchange, I did an IPO on the Singapore stock exchange, and diluted our shareholding to 51%, but use the proceeds of the IPO to pay down the debt. Right? And then finally in 1996, I sold the entire business, that was then listed on the Singapore stock exchange,

and I made. a fat profit. And I still remember, and I. have no hesitation in saying this, that I went to my mom. and I said you see this piece of paper, this is what I earned, this is not inherited, I made it. myself. So, when I spend it don't complain. No, that's on the lighter end, but yeah, I mean, that was when.

as a non-resident Indian I made my. first. serious piece of money. Out of. entirely my own initiative, in a paints environment. But. that's what it's all about, I mean, I got experience of doing IPOs in 3 different. countries across the globe, that was invaluable experience. Do you regret selling it? Because today I think Berger is 60-70 crore.

big business. That's only one Berger in India, I owned the global Berger, all over the world, including India. I sold Berger paints in India to the Dhingras. -So, do you regret selling it? -Who did a great job with it. No, no, God bless them. They did a superb job with it. If it was doing so good, why did you sell it? Well, it was bought by the Malaysians, okay? And they came with an offer I couldn't refuse.

Okay. They offered me some 2 and a half times the quoted share price. Okay, you mentioned that, you said, you told your mother that I made this profit, now don't complain when I spend it. Correct. Tell me about your relationship with your mother. My mom brought me up, I used to live with her in Calcutta. alone, since 64-65. And, yeah, so, she has stood by me. like a rock, she's a very well-educated lady.

And yeah, I mean she's been living in England now for 30 plus years. But, yeah, I mean, you know, I wanted to buy a yacht, I wanted to buy a plane and stuff like that, so, I wanted to make sure I set the record straight, I told my mum I earned this money, so if I spend it buying a yacht, I spend it buying a plane, don't complain. Did she complain earlier?

Never. -But why did you say that then? -She enjoyed the plane, she enjoyed the yacht. What? Okay, why did you say this to her then? Was she like frugal, she would ask you not to spend. No, it isn't that, I mean, it's natural for a parent, you know, if you see something that's. quite extraordinary, quite expensive, lavish call it what you may, it's normal parental. reaction to ask the child, you know, why are you spending money or whatever. I mean, I'm just telling you, I made a joke out of it, but I was very proud.

that, it was the money I earned, you know, it wasn't money I inherited. Tell me one lesson you learnt from your mom. Oh, I've learned many lessons. from my mom. Don't waste. time in. life arguing. It's not worth it.

Use your time productively, think positively. Don't keep arguing with people unless it's. a matter that's going to get you somewhere. And which argument gets you anywhere? And what did you learn from father? Give me one lesson. Something that you. can't forget. Hard work. and the ability to read a balance sheet, company balance sheet. He was really good at it, right? That's what's written about him.

He was superlative at it. -Do you miss your father? -I don't think I'd be. as good, but I think whatever I learned from him. was good enough. For me to produce some. excellent, robust balance sheets in all the companies there are. Do you miss him? Well, who doesn't miss their dad? But, you know, it's now what. 1983 to 2025 is a long time.

What do you miss about him? You can't keep missing somebody for 40 years. Life is too short for that. But do you think he would have been proud of you today? Well, I would hope so. Certainly not proud of me being called thief. or fugitive. Certainly, nobody would be proud of that, certainly no parent I know my mother. gets very agitated even today, she's. 98 years old, and every time she sees the Indian media, she's reduced to tears.

Obviously, it hurts her more, I'm probably more thick skinned, more robust and. I just ignore it, but, you know, at that age my mother doesn't and. it's. very unfair what. has been written, what has been alleged, because it's complete nonsense. Let's walk through the case. Let's start from. the point of what happened in Kingfisher Airlines. When did you decide you want to start Kingfisher Airline? Two thousand and. 2, 2003.

And you just, Okay, so, here's the story, hear me out, what. I've gathered from. reading about it. One day, out of blue, you go to an AGM, or like just a board meeting I think, not an AGM, it was a board meeting. where you announced that. on my son's birthday we are going to launch Kingfisher Airlines. Your CFO was not happy about it but you still pursued and you want to do it. This was.

the, this is what is reported. What was the reality? Tell me the truth. The truth is. that Damania brothers from Bombay, who previously had Damania Airlines, came and made a presentation to my CFO, Ravi Nedungadi, saying the time is ripe. to start an airline now.

Okay. Ravi had already had discussions with them, came to me and said would you like to look at this proposal? I said, yes. We looked at it. and finally we decided, yes, it is opportune, so, let's go for it. Okay. That's how the idea of an Airline was born. And then?

You didn't take anyone in confidence, you were just, hey, out of nowhere, I think we are in alcohol business, now we want an airline business. Well there's nothing wrong in diversification. The UB group has had a history even during my father's time of operating food processing companies, petrochemical companies, electromechanical companies, so, I mean, diversity was nothing new to us. So, your initial plan. to launch an airline was 7th May, 2005.

but you ended up launching it at 9th May, 2005, right? And then... This whole business of launch on son's birthday, as a birthday gift and all is complete. baloney. Alright? I think my son would be embarrassed and I would be. equally embarrassed to say I'm starting an airline. Alright? As an 18th birthday gift. Complete nonsense. Alright? But okay, once again, media. narratives are best ignored.

A full. blown professional management team was in position, before. the airline even started, before the first plane arrived. Okay? The CEO. and the. director of engineering, were both hired from the US. Yeah. And the airline was launched. There's a lot of narrative about Kingfisher Airlines.

There's a lot of narrative about mismanagement. Lot of narrative about. the Deccan acquisition. All sorts of things. Let's pick one by one. Yeah. What was the first vision of. Kingfisher Airlines, when you were starting in 2005. To produce the best flying experience that. India had ever seen. Make it a premium experience? Totally, a premium experience, number one, in terms of passenger comfort, safety.

Number two, to connect places in India that had never ever been connected before. And that it was a really serious part. of the growing infrastructural needs of the country. But, I was watching a documentary about you. and. I think, the person who you got to lead was Alex. Yeah, Wilcox. Yeah. So, Alex said that.

you convinced him that you want to build a low cost carrier, but it was not like that. And in your own words, if you're giving a vision, that. I want to build a premium experience, why did you get. a CEO or like a president, I don't know what his position was, but somebody to lead, by telling him that. you want to build a low cost carrier. That is your own misinformation. He said it somewhere, I'm just quoting him.

Fair enough, I haven't seen it, but I'll respond. Kingfisher Airline started off as a single class airline low cost. But with a difference. It had inflight entertainment. and it offered meals. Everything else. that's applicable to a low cost airline, was applied to Kingfisher as well.

Commonality of fleet, commonality of training, the whole lot, I mean there's. a whole set of rules, what is a low cost carrier, what is a. full service carrier, right? And that even descends down to intricacies such as the. type of reservation system, flight panning system we use, and all the rest of it. So, Kingfisher had all the low cost attributes. Okay? The only product plus was in-flight entertainment, for the first time ever in India.

and. good food. So, to me the logic. from my marketing experience was, Indians love entertainment, therefore the in-flight entertainment system, and Indians love food. So, good food. Right? And then, of course, okay, service quality, whether. you are a low cost or full service, I mean, you'd like a nice, well-trained, polite, set of crew.

And we spent a lot of. time and energy on that. Then. when we saw the market evolve, we added. Kingfisher first, which is basically the business class. Why? Because the market demanded that on certain routes. Right? There were certain people who would not fly Kingfisher, because we didn't have a front cabin or a business-class,

who would always fly Jet, okay? Because jet had 2 class, business class and economy class, right? And now, just to prove my point, IndiGo is often referred to as the most successful low-cost carrier, in the world. and certainly the largest low-cost carrier in India, what's indiGo doing now? Installing a business class, right? Yeah. So, it's not such a dumb idea.

Right? So, it worked in your favor initially? Yes. And by 2008, you were, the biggest. airline in the country, having a 27% market share... Yes. Right? What went wrong? If things were right, your marketing was working, you had everything right, in fact, before you even answer that, I want to go to which is often. talked about, it's. your training of cabin crew.

What was the idea behind that? You selected certain people based on. how they look, or how they're going to be presented. Yeah, well, you know, at the end of the day, you have, you have, very. good-looking. ladies who. sadly. can't speak very well. Now, what is one of the key attributes of a cabin crew? Communication. I mean, you may look good,

but if you can't. communicate with the passenger, that doesn't serve the purpose. The kind of service standards that I set for the airline, and my service standards were unique. They included. in business class, the. air hostesses, cleaning. reading glasses and spectacles, of our customers, we call them guests. Right?

So there were little things, that made a vast difference in the customer experience. Tell me 2 more things. 2-3 more things. This is one, secondly, the food was second to none. Right? When the quality of the seats themselves, they recline, and all the rest of it, what we call the. seat pitch, it was second to none. So, there were so many little attributes, we called. customers.

not passengers but guests. Many airlines have copied us since. But they were the little, little things that made a difference. I was very focused on the service delivery excellence of Kingfisher. You can go further, because you don't know this, so, you can't ask me the questions, so let me tell you. Yeah. In the first one year, the airport manager at every single airport in India, had to send me, on my personal mobile, an SMS,

the flight number, the scheduled time of departure, and the actual departure time. So, every night before I went to bed, which was. rather late, I used to look at my phone, every single flight of Kingfisher of that day, I used to monitor personally, the on-time performance. You were. so detailed focus, you were so... Because the service industry,

the airline industry requires. focus, requires detailed focus. So, agreed. Then. it worked in your favor. till 2008, what happened then? Simple, you've ever heard of Lehman brothers? Yeah. You ever heard of the global financial crisis? Right? Did it not impact India? It did. Of course it did, the whole aviation sector was... Forget aviation, every sector. Every sector was, yeah. -The money stopped, it got dry. -You saw what it did to the value of the Indian rupee?

So, I went to. shri Pranab Mukherjee, then finance minister of India. Having grown up in Calcutta, I speak. fairly decent Bengali. And I said Pranab da, *Speaking in Bengali*. *Speaking in Bengali*. Which means, I have to downsize this Airline. I have to cut the number of aircraft, I have to.

lay off employees. Right? Because I can't afford to operate, under these. depressed economic. circumstances. He said no. At this time. connectivity is important. Yeah. The jobs and employment are important, particularly because, you know, typically, in an airline, there are not blue-collar workers. This is not like. work men.

Yeah. The boys and girls who work in an airline, can't be classified as blue-collar. and he said I don't want them. to lose their jobs. So, you continue, banks will support you, that is how it all started. I was told. not to downsize Kingfisher at that time. And yes, the banks did support. Alright?

Now... What happened then? Lot is... Well, you tell me the narrative, I'll tell you the truth, you told me the narrative. Then there was a consortium formed, of 17 banks. and the loan was given to you. via SBI, right? Was that the first or IDBI was first? See, this is where. people are not aware. I.

acquired air Deccan, which everybody says, was. a big mistake. Yeah. Right? In 137 million dollars or something like that. Everybody says you overpaid for it. In the. world. of business, there's something known as consolidation. Industry consolidation.

There is something known as. eliminate the disruptor. Okay. Air Deccan. was famous for. advertising and promoting one rupee tickets. Yeah. Clearly, you could never ever sustain. any airline business, selling. tickets for one rupee. Right? Okay, it was a bait, but that set.

certain price expectations in the mindset of the customers. Yeah. And affected not only Deccan, which was. losing money. but the industry as a whole, of which Kingfisher is also part. Right? So, at that time. we looked at it, air Deccan was also Bangalore-based, it had the same. airbus aircraft, it had the same train balance.

as Kingfisher, so there was a lot of engineering. Compatibility. Plus. scale and size. with the merger of Kingfisher and Deccan. Eliminate the disruptor. and consolidate the industry and Kingfisher Airlines, that was the logic. of buying Deccan. Not this.

much-touted. logic of, I was desperate to fly overseas, I needed to get past that five-year hurdle. Yeah. Complete nonsense. Now, why should I shout from the rooftops, trying to, trying to. clarify this part. If you talk to anybody. about elimination of a disruptor. and consolidation of industry. it'll start making... and commonality of equipment. it'll start making business sense.

But if your philosophy was to make a premium airline, why would you buy something. which stands for low cost carrier, which stands for something cheap, which stands for. one rupee ticket, because the customers will be completely different. The only obvious sense which. anybody could make out from it was. if you're going for a different vision, you are probably going out because. the five-year window. which. you wanted, which you wanted to bounce, right?

Probably, yeah. Like, that was a logic, like I. to clarify, to tell people who don't know about it. The logic that people talk about is. if an Indian airline wanted to fly overseas, they should have operated in India, for at least 5 years, -before getting the license to operate there. -Yes, yes, yes. And you didn't have that. and that's why you bought Air Deccan, so that you could. start flying overseas. And you paid an absurd amount of price for it, that's what people say. So, who are the people. that you're quoting?

Everybody, like all the things that I've read, all the things, all the media... Media right? Yeah, like the... Legacy media, right. Legacy media, the people who. are responsible for giving us the information, I mean that's what, as a citizen that's where I get my information from. Correct. And at least from the ones whom I really respect. So, I don't think anybody at UB group was that dumb, with a lack of. business understanding, to buy an airline,

an operating airline, just to be able to fly overseas. I'm telling you the logic was. consolidation of the industry, given the commonality of equipment. I referred a little earlier, to the installation of a front cabin or a business class, which we called Kingfisher first, which Indigo are doing even now.

There are certain routes in India that demand, right? A front cabin, where there are people who will only fly. business class. Fair. But the bulk of India. people. want a single class product. Deccan fitted that bill fantastically. Right? We opened up more routes. than had ever been opened before or available for air connectivity.

That was one of the biggest contributions we made. to the Indian. aviation sector and economy. Right? Deccan also played a part in that. So, Kingfisher's sad failure subsequently had nothing to do with Deccan. Okay. Nothing to do with how much we paid for Deccan. Right? Got it. Those were totally separate set of reasons. Right?

Business reasons. Here's a question. So, I get the. idea that you wanted to service more routes, you wanted to consolidate, that was a business decision, you saw that. hey, I want to build a premium airline, but. there's a bulk of India who cares about the price. And you wanted to contribute to make sure, that I want to make sure that. India gets. to fly. anywhere and everywhere. through the price point which Air Deccan provides, and if I could be the one to consolidate it and I could be the one to actually.

eliminate the disruptor, I should do it, business decision, brilliant. Do you think then the wrong decision was to rebrand it to Kingfisher Red? No, because you can't start operating one Deccan and one Kingfisher, so we just called it Kingfisher Red, I mean rebranding. is common in the world, take Coca-Cola, right? There's coke, there's coke Zero, there's diet coke, it's all coke. Right? So, a multi-brand strategy.

is no rocket science. Yeah. But then the philosophy of Air Deccan was low cost. and in Kingfisher Red, So, Kingfisher stood for premium, Kingfisher Red stood for low-cost. It was differentiated Kingfisher First. and. Kingfisher Red. Okay. Right? You tell me something, what's the difference between coke zero and diet coke? Tell me. Just two names, I don't know. Yeah, fine, what's the philosophy behind it? You don't know.

So, how can all these commentators be commenting. on Kingfisher First and Kingfisher Red? You know, the trouble in India is, there are too many commentators, who don't understand the facts. And of course, the media plays the gallery. And that's how disinformation. gets spread wide. And then. you stated.

somewhere, again. the commentators I'm quoting, that I want to, if I've put in a name Kingfisher, on an airline, no matter even if it's low cost, I want to provide all the services. You started providing all the services, you started providing catering, you started. providing everything in a low cost carrier, didn't you? I began by saying that Kingfisher started off with all the attributes of. a low cost carrier, which is single class, standard fleet,

etc. But I said the only differentiators were in-flight entertainment and food. Well, it's just because I gave food didn't make it a. full service carrier. I mean, you want. shall I give you examples? Yeah. You go. on any low-cost carrier here in Europe. do they starve you. or do the. feed you? But you have to pay for it. All of them? I don't know, a few of them, the ones I've flown.

So, they are exceptions. Okay. But that were the business... like that's what everybody talks about, right? You know, that's the problem, lack of. information and knowledge and more importantly, no domain knowledge of the aviation industry, leads to. all sorts of. speculation that makes no sense. So, you tell us. that. does it make business sense to provide food and inflight entertainment, in a low cost. carrier where people don't care about it.

Wait. Our belief was Indians love food and love entertainment. That was for Kingfisher First. but not for Kingfisher Red. -Kingfisher Red stands for low cost... -Why? An in-flight entertainment system. doesn't cost you money to operate every day. But still costs you a lot of money, which. eventually will bleed your balance sheet. Really? I'm asking you. Not in our opinion. Do you think that was a wrong decision? What? To acquire Deccan?

Yeah. After acquiring Deccan, giving all the services, of a full. full service carrier, in a low-cost carrier. The full service carrier part of it was very distinct from the so called. low-cost carrier. At the end of the day, however you may. refer to these. business models, it's all about. the price.

your customers are willing to pay. and whether you can fill your planes. Simple. All models are. academic. and theoretical, that really are irrelevant. But your critiques say that. you were competing against other low cost carriers... Like? Like at that time was it... I think IndiGo started at that time. And. Spice started. at that time, I think Spice...

Spice was there on and off . Yeah. Okay so... More off than on. So, you were competing with low-cost carriers, with their pricing, but you were providing something extra and that's why your. business model was bleeding more money than them. And you expected that this will turn into. loyal customers, but the moment you increase price, people would not fly your. flights, was it true? If that's what the critics say, they're all aviation experts, I have nothing to say. So where was the problem then? If this was not the problem then what happened?

The problem was the government. The problem was fairly and squarely the government, and I, you know, they've made. a lot of political hay out of this, when I used. to write to Prime Minister Manmohan Singh, when I used to write. to the civil aviation ministers, ministers of finance, etc. The cost of crude, international crude,

went to 140 dollars a barrel. The price of aviation turbine fuel in India. was directly related to the cost of international crude oil. So, you can see that from an average of about 60 dollars a barrel, crude oil went to 140 dollars a barrel, with the resultant.

and equivalent increase in the price of aviation turbine fuel. The state governments. levied an ad valorem. sales tax. on aviation turbine fuel. So, you can yourself, now begin to imagine. the financial impact on the airline. operating, where fuel costs. are the single largest component of cost. So I pleaded,

I said look, please give aviation turbine fuel, declared good status. so that it attracts central sales tax, and not this punitive, ad valorem, state sales tax, right? Because the states are making windfall profits. Anyway, that the government did not do. Okay. Aviation. is regarded as a capital intensive industry,

right? It's. acknowledged as such worldwide. Right? They would not permit foreign investment. It was sad that only 6 months after Kingfisher airline shut, right? That they permitted Etihad to invest in Jet. I had already reached agreement. with the CEO of Etihad in Geneva, for them to invest in Kingfisher, which government did not permit.

So, we could not capitalize the airline. through a foreign investor either. Why didn't they allow? You should ask the government. Right? So, my point is, the economy, the circumstances, the government policy then existing, all conspired. to create a perfect storm. through which Kingfisher could not survive. I mean, that's the sad part of it.

If you talk about. Kingfisher, the concept. and UB group's diversification into aviation, I'll answer it in one sentence. The. two biggest orders for aircraft in the world today. are Air India and IndiGo, both Indian carriers. The fastest growing aviation market in the world today. is India.

Now, if you. yourself acknowledge that in 2008, Kingfisher was the largest airline with a 27% market share, had events. not conspired against us, right? You can imagine where Kingfisher could potentially have been today. But. sadly, not all businesses work out, some. times you win, sometimes you lose. While this,

like 2008. turmoil happened. and you had your own challenges with Kingfisher, but there are good things in your life that are happening as well. One of them being sports. So, you. bought. IPL team, RCB, Royal Challengers Bangalore. How did that happen? When did this idea come to you? Were you approached? You approached? What was it? Tell me everything about it. Well, I think I have. already explained to you,

the concept behind building a personality for a brand. About. communicating, marketing. ethos. via sporting events, music events. and various other forms that would be attractive to youngsters. I just acquired Shaw Wallace and one of the biggest.

brands that I acquired was royal challenge. whiskey. And. I was thinking of ways and means of. now taking royal challenge whiskey to the next level, which required. a lot of marketing, innovation, thinking. And. at the time the IPL was conceived, I was actually sitting on the. BCCI. committee,

as a representative of the Karnataka state cricket association. and I was very impressed with the. pitch that. Lalit Modi made. to the BCCI committee about this league. And of course, he. was working through, jumping through the hoops and BCCI was. quite bureaucratic at that time, but nevertheless, he called me one day and said, okay fine, we're ready to go,

teams are going to be auctioned, are you going to buy? And I thought to my itself, I said, wow, in a country where cricket is a religion, what better platform can I have. to promote my brands then through an ideal franchise? And. I got greedy, I wanted one for Kingfisher. and one for royal challenge, my whiskey brand. Okay. He said no, you cannot possibly have 2,

you can only have 1. Anyway. bidding time came. and. I think I was pretty excited about. having an IPL team. to promote. one of my brands. And, so I bid. for 3 franchise. Okay. I lost Mumbai by a very small amount of money, but then. that's not surprising.

that. Ambanis got it. Yeah. Anyway, I wound up being the highest bidder for 3, and. I had to choose one. So, I. obviously chose Bangalore. and. it then was natural that it would be. Royal Challengers Bangalore because the whisky was Royal challenge. And that's how RCB was born. But it was not a business, it was. not for the love of cricket, it was more.

like a business decision that it'll help my brands. Or was it both? This is it, the media narrative will be. well, vanity project, Vijay Mallya loves cricket he wanted to buy his own team. Yeah. Flamboyance. The usual narrative about me. But the sole purpose always was promotion of the royal challenge whisky brand. So, it was very much business driven. and that's why it was called Royal Challangers.

But did it help? Were the whiskey sales up after that? Massively. Massively, and of course, I mean, quite apart from it doing it's job. to promote the whiskey brand, the IPL franchise model itself, as explained in great detail by Lalit, and which is true now, that the revenues, the media revenues are so high, the payment of the franchise fee over 10 years is over,

so, now there's a significant net profit. for every franchise, it's like. a very profitable running. independent business, so much so for it being a vanity project. How much did you buy it for? I think 112 million dollars is what I bid. And that time it would be like. 6-7 hundred crore or more than that? Yeah, I think, but Lalit was clever everything was denominated in dollars. The bid price was. Okay. So, I think 112 million.

which of course, people bombed at, at that time but. you know, in hindsight if you look at it and do the math, it was a. top class investment. I mean look at what. the teams are worth today. I mean they're worth a billion dollars. You know one thing which was exciting in your pitch, in your bid. for RCB, was Virat Kohli. -Virat Kohli. -I picked Virat. under-19, you bid for him. and if I'm not wrong, you got it for like 20 lakh something. Correct. Why did you pick Virat at such a young age?

Well, you know, obviously, they were the young cricketers, and it was drawn by lots, right? In fact, I got lucky, so I got to pick. and I. immediately went for Virat. You know, I mean I looked. just, I think. shortly before the actual. selection process,

there they were playing the under-19 world cup, and I was very impressed. and so I picked him, and you know, it's wonderful, 18 years later he's still there. So, it was just his performance. -or were you able to see something else? -Yeah, absolutely. Yeah, he was a young kid at that time when I got him, but, you know, full of energy, great talent. and one of the greatest Indian cricketers ever. If you had the choice to pick. 2 or 3 players from other teams for RCB today, who would you pick?

If dreams could come true, Jasprit Bumrah. Yeah. If dreams could. come true, Suryakumar Yadav. Rishabh Pant. I think. KL Rahul. If I had these 4, I wouldn't need anybody else and.

definitely win the trophy. And do you think this year even when you don't have these 4, you would. -The RCB lineup... -win the trophy this year? Yeah, RCB lineup is pretty balanced. Top class batting lineup. A much improved. bowling lineup. I haven't seen Bhuvneshwar Kumar play in RCB colors yet. but you know he's a top-class bowler.

But as a unit, I can say, it's a pretty balanced unit. and now. it all depends on. on-field performance. You know, this year the captain, Rajat, he's from my city, he's from my neighbourhood. Like. he was literally 2 houses away from my house. Rajat Patidar, so, this year even. though I'm not... I support Mumbai, but this year I’m still rooting for.

RCB and I’m like, okay, let. Rajat win the trophy. Okay, but it. you know, it occurs to me that. RCB never winning the cup. has actually worked in RCB's favor, do you think so? In what way? In cult following. No, no, no. Even though you guys have, like RCB has never won. See, that is because the way RCB. was conceived.

We have had a. comprehensive program. of fan engagement. Okay. Right? We've had events, I mean, the. IPL window is 2 months. Well, we have had activation programs stretching over all 12 months, to keep RCB fans engaged. So, it is once again a. clear cut marketing strategy. and fan engagement strategy, which is what,

that's why we have. such extreme loyalty, that win or lose. the chant of RCB is always there. Give me an example of the marketing trick here. So many, I mean you watch the activation of RCB. Longevity, right? You remember. 'Ooh la la la le le oh' *Kingfisher's Jingle*. Yeah. Remember? Yeah. 'Ooh la la la la le oh'. When was this conceived? You don't know? Well let me tell you.

1996 world cup of cricket, the Kingfisher West Indies cricket team. Now back in 1996, I. put the Kingfisher logo on the West Indies. not Indian. cricket team. Okay? And why? Because the personality of the West Indian cricketers, fun, dancing, music, their entire swagger, that suited the Kingfisher brand.

That was when. the jingle was conceived. which lives on till today. In 2025. Yeah. Wow. It was conceived before I was born. and I still remember it. So you, see, you have been king of marketing, you have done so many marketing. gigs, right? Was the Formula 1 also a marketing stunt, for Kingfisher? See, I told you earlier that I've always had racing in my blood, I've always.

loved racing cars. I was then involved with. the motor sports clubs in India. I was chairman of the federation of motor sports clubs of India, for many years. And. the job of the federation was basically to promote motor sports in India. Now, for anybody who's into motor racing, the absolute. pinnacle. of motor sport in the world is Formula 1.

Right? You know, what is Formula 1 all around? The image of Formula 1, big box, glamour, seriously competitive racing divided by. hundredths of a second, full of excitement, etc. All the attributes I have employed. in different ways for my brands. And plus being a motor racing enthusiast, right?

It was a dream. to have a team on the F1 grid, so, when the opportunity presented itself, I did it. Right? I did it. Now, I named it Force India. I could have easily named it Mallya Formula 1. Like Williams Formula 1, for instance, right? Why did you keep Force 1? Because I wanted the Indian flag to be on the grid.

I wanted the world to know. that the team. with roots in. India of all countries, was. at the. pinnacle of motor sport, and that is why I called it Force India. And I had the. tricolor on the car. Of course, I also used the platform to advertise my brands. Yeah. Okay? Including royal challenge. whiskey, Whyte Mackay, which we owned at that time,

Kingfisher, then the airline. So, the car, delivery of the car and all the merchandise around Formula 1, had a lot of our brands on it for promotional purposes. But the core reason was to put an Indian Formula 1 team. on. the grid. But you invested quite a lot of money on it, right? Sure I did, I mean, Formula 1 is not cheap. Do you think that was a bad decision? No, in hindsight, I wouldn't do anything different. Why not?

-Because... -Why not? Because. you had to sell it, right? And I think a lot of accusations are for the same brand. Whose accusations? About what? That you used Kingfisher money for Formula 1. And nobody talks about it. Nobody talks about that. Have you spoken about it before and still people don't? Never, why should I? As I told you. I don't want to waste my time. correcting. the barrage of narratives coming from legacy media. But then you sold Force 1.

Yes, Force 1 became racing point. -Yes, you sold it to Lawrence Stroll. -Now it is Aston Martin Formula 1. Yeah. Why did you sell it to Lawrence? I had to at that time because of. my worldwide freezing orders and the troubles that Sahara was going through. and so on and so forth, so, you know, at the end of the day. I would have definitely kept it but. it was not to be, so fine, you move on in life. But I had 10 years of the Indian flag on the Formula 1 grid.

Talking about another marked marketing stint, because there was cricket, there was Formula 1, there was Kingfisher calendar. It was so highly talked about, what was the story behind Kingfisher calendar? Atul Kasbekar came to me and said, fine, let's you know, there's a Pirelli calendar, why can't we create a similar property for Kingfisher? I said, absolutely. And so, we said fine, we will have the Kingfisher swimsuit calendar.

We couldn't go. sort of, kind of all the way that. Pirelli might have been able to. given the. social considerations in India and so on so forth, but I think. we produced. a product that. everybody demanded, I mean even today I get. I get SMSs from people, 'where is my calendar?'. So, it was highly sought after. And once again, we had events around it, we had the national. hunt for the Kingfisher girl. and that was.

national, so we broad-based it. and we chose models through a national hunt. And then of course, we'd have events. around. the calendar. Well, shooting the calendar. and then launching the calendar. all of which was consistent with. the brand positioning. and marketing strategy of Kingfisher. And why do you think that. girls who were, who became or who landed on the calendar,

their career skyrocketed. Yeah, because we chose the right girls. I mean, whether it was Deepika Padukone, whether it was Katrina Kaif, I mean, we we had all. the heroines and. stars. on the calendar, in their younger days. But they were not stars back then, they became after. We picked well. We picked the right talent. Did you also help them after the calendar or it was just.

-the engagement was only... -They only came... with the calendar and that was it. I did it because it was a fantastic marketing tool. Didn't bring anything to me personally, but it did wonders for the brand. The same thing with the McDowell marketing campaigns, okay? Talking about. fast cars, I've always been passionate about cars. And.

I have owned. good cars. but. not a fleet of them. In India, I had a couple of Mercedes cars, one Rolls-Royce and. one Maybach, that was it, that was all I possessed. -But you have one of the largest car collection of vintage cars and stuff, right? -Now we are talking. We are talking about. vintage cars, which is a totally different ballgame. Because of. our.

nationwide presence on the ground, I told. my people, look for vintage cars. because they were hugely neglected. Many cars went to India, in the 20s and 30s. the. maharajahs in India were probably the biggest customers. for.

famous cars, such as Rolls-Royce. But these cars were in a state of ruin. Given my inherent interest in cars, I said I want to collect these and restore them. Which I did. I mean, in those days, I have bought. a Rolls-Royce for 50,000 rupees, with a tree growing through it in somebody's backyard, deep in Telangana.

I have. bought cars that have been rusted, parts missing, etc. All of which I lovingly restored. over a period of time. That is. my passion for cars. And those cars still exist, of course, you can't. export them. because that's the government of India policy. So, they are in India. Tell me about. the top 3 cars which you absolutely loved, out of your collection. From the vintage cars back then, which you owned, maybe in England or in India or anywhere.

In India, I had, I think in 1931, Pierce-Arrow, which is a fantastic American car. and. which I took. to Singapore. I entered the Singapore to Malaysia rally and won it. and then proudly flew back. on an Air India flight with the big trophy in my hand. That was one of my favorite cars.

I. have. a. Rolls-Royce Silver Ghost. that was supposedly owned by the Nizam of Hyderabad. with a very unique body on it. That's a special car. I. have I think a 1903 Darracq. which looks more like a horse drawn carriage, it's French. with a single cylinder engine, still runs. So yeah, these were.

some of the unique ones which. personal favorites, let's put it that way. What's the most ridiculously expensive thing you have bought in your life? I mean, depends on what, I mean, whether you're talking about a car, you're talking about. painting, you are talking about. property. Give me an example of one each. No, I mean, look, I have a family trust set up by my father, that.

you know, has acquired various properties in different parts of the world. The. media said I had over 20 properties, probably one in each country I went to, which is once again a hugely. erroneous exaggeration. Yeah sure, I have properties in England, properties in America, where my kids live. I had a lovely property in France.

which you. rightly pointed out, owned through Gizmo, which is a holding company. Yeah and then when I had. the big brewery business in south Africa, we had a home in Cape Town. which was sold when the business was sold, because I had no reason to keep going there. That's about it. And you. talk about one of your houses which is very spoken about, actually two of them.

Yeah. One is. that big bungalow which is. above, which is in India at the Kingfisher... in Bangalore. -It started off as a joke. -What was the intent? Okay. -What's the... -You know the brewery house, which is a bungalow, was on that piece of land for over a 100 years. That's where I grew up. In that bungalow? Yeah. That's where my father lived.

And. when these. developers came and. asked me. that land should be developed. and that it would be very beneficial for the company. and that there was a huge. profit potential. I said, you know, I should put the company first. and unlock the value in the potential rather than be. selfish and say, no, I’m not moving.

So, in a joking way, I said to Irfan Razack, of prestige, very dear friend of mine, top man. I said Irfan, if you lift this building. and put it on top of the tower you want to build, I'll agree. He said okay, that's what we'll deliver. That's what they did. -Wow! What is there inside the house, I always wonder, every time I go to Bangalore.

-It's unfinished. It's unfinished because it's embroiled in this. UBHL liquidation controversy right now, but you know, given. that the. banks are settled and. I think UBHL should come out of liquidation. and be restored to it's shareholders which is what I’m working on now. Was this also a reason why, because. you marketed so well and you marketed.

at the place or with the tools. which were very, very public in nature, very loud in nature. There was a line which I read in newspaper. which said. you are a showman. and your father was a businessman. Is that why people misunderstand you? Because of the nature of your... My father was a businessman, and. I really, I’m not concerned about being referred to as a showman.

because the showman created the world's largest. alcoholic beverage company, which my father as a businessman would have loved to see. Do you think your father, if he was here with you, things would have been different for you, you would not land in this? Absolutely not. Absolutely not. I mean, if you see. what I've been through,

it's illogical. It is a sustained campaign and a sustained attack. on the government's favourite poster boy. Right? Now whether my dad was around or not, would not change... Anything. What has been attempted and what is being done. Till now. the government. officially recognizing and admitting. that ₹14,100 crore, has been recovered. Okay, let's go to the point where...

when we were talking about... earlier, about the Kingfisher turmoil. You said, you went to the FM, back then, which was. Pranab Mukherjee sir. What happened after that meeting? He said that banks will support you. Is that the reason why. a government bank. supported you? It was not 1 government bank, it was a group of about. 15 or 16 government banks. Kingfisher Airlines. never borrowed. any money from State Bank Of India.

Just. to set the record straight. Okay. State Bank Of India was a lender to Deccan. When Kingfisher and Deccan merged, State Bank Of India became a. lender. to Kingfisher Airlines. but it started with Deccan. So, like that there were a group of banks from whom Kingfisher had borrowed money, global banks from whom Deccan had borrowed money. and then. they got combined into one entity when Deccan and Kingfisher merged,

right? Yes, there were. times when. the sort of support from the Finance. Minister at that time. meant that. you know, when I presented to various banks. including State Bank that. you know, the airline needed money. They would. recognize. our financial needs, appraise them correctly. Through State Bank of India capital markets.

And then sanction. loans. Even though the credit worthiness. of Kingfisher Airlines may have been short of. norms. to that extent, I'm grateful, yes. But then you know. I did my bit as well I put in 3000 crores. Of UB groups money into Kingfisher Airlines. You're talking. to me about. allegations of siphoning. You're talking to me about allegations of misusing.

Kingfisher Airlines funds for my lifestyle, for Formula One. Nobody ever talks about the 3000 crores I infused in cash. Into Kingfisher Airlines to keep it afloat. My good friend and. you know, probably the most successful lady entrepreneur. I've known. she's like a sister to me, Kiran Mazumdar. Has often said publicly. that Vijay put. everything on the line for Kingfisher. I did. But that's not appreciated.

That does not appreciated. That's sad but. let the narrative be what it is. So you put everything you had. into. reviving Kingfisher Airlines because you believed in the ivision. Yeah. Right? But at the time when you asked for loan. The company was not doing that great. Correct. Right? So you've... but you've still got. loan from the consortium of 17 banks. Correct.

The reason was they believed in your vision. or the reason that. they were influenced by the. by the government to give you the loan? They believed in the vision. They did their own appraisals. Right? And please never forget I gave my personal guarantee. And United Breweries Holdings Ltd also gave. it's personal guarantee. If anybody had. okay? Bad intentions. If anybody had.

intentions to. divert money, siphon money, steal money. Would anybody. put. themselves in a line with a personal guarantee? Think about it. So all this narrative of crook. Does a crook ever give his personal guarantee? That is why I say –. In the last nine years I haven't bothered. about changing this narrative. Because it is what it is it's written by the.

Indian media. Of course. prompted by the government. who have had their own. press conferences, etc. I mean Sambit Patra, the BJP spokesman. called a press conference and bandied around in front of the Indian media. Letters that I had written to. Prime Minister Manmohan Singh. Trying to establish an nexus. right, between me and the Prime Minister. and alleging some sort of wrongdoing.

by the then congress. Prime Minister. I mean. one could. see through the political rhetoric. straight away. Why. wouldn't. any Indian citizen write to the Prime Minister for help? Fair. because I never asked for money. I asked only for. policy changes. Let's go to the series of events. After this what happened? What happened? So.

I'm quoting. Just pure research. Okay? Quoting whom? Quoting pure research of what's out there on all the newspapers. So you got a loan. From banks. and. usually. the normal nature of providing such big loans. is people take. People give you this kind of loan against collateral. and in this case, bank took brand name of Kingfishers as collateral and gave you the loan.

One of the collaterals. One of the collaterals. What would were other collaterals? Several others. Stocks, shares, property. So stocks and shares. Property. And stock and shares which. is again quoted. at that time, were at the price of 38-39. But banks got it at 68-69. You are talking about Kingfisher Airlines shares? Yeah. What about all the other shares of. UBL and USL? Nobody talks about that.

But they... Where do you think they got this 14,000 crores from? I'm talking about back then. No no no one minute. Yeah. They have sold assets and realised 14,100 crores. Yeah. A large part of which were my shares. So you have only focused on brand value. You've forgotten about the shares. - No, I'm talking about shares. - I never suggested. Wait a minute, I never suggested. that the brand value would generate 14,000 crores. My shares that were placed did.

So. there's your answer. to all this narrative. So you're saying that. I'm not saying it. It's fact! No, so the facts are, which you're quoting. is. they took shares of Kingfisher Airlines at the double price. because. they were also getting shares of UB. That's why there was some kind of negotiation which was played on? No no... It's a multiple basket of securities.

But still why would a. bank pay twice the share price? Look. Nobody dreams up a share value. Okay? There were professional. Merchant bankers including State Bank of India, Capital Markets involved. They. arrived at the share value. The part of the loan package was that Kingfishers. shares in the airline itself needed to be. pledged to the banks. But that was all. not the only pledge.

It was part of a basket. But then the media chose to focus only on that. So I would like to ask the legacy media. where did the 14,000 crores come from? But you made such a hullabaloo about. share price of Kingfisher Airlines. Now you see –. Now do you see? How people pick and choose to discredit you?

Isn't it pretty evident? Okay. So then this happened. Again a business decision by banks. They did everything. There was no influence involved. It was pure play business decision by a bank between you and the banks. You should ask them. This question – you lent the money on what basis you lent the money? They should answer the question. I'm the receiver. First of all, let me clarify here, when you keep saying you borrowed.

I never borrowed one new paisa. Vijay Mallya has never borrowed. a single rupee from anybody ever! It was Kingfisher Airlines, the running companies that borrowed, I was a guarantor. Please, there's a big difference. And then the money came in. But you still. Kingfisher Airlines was still bleeding. Whatever the case may be I also put 3000 crores. You put in 3000 crores. You put in everything.

And you try to revive it. And then one series of event happened where —. There was a no non-payment. of. the oil bills and that's why the oil companies. started asking you for advance money. And that shaked you a little bit more? Well, yeah, the working capital cycle got disrupted. It's natural. Then. there was. another series of event. That. Kingfisher Airlines were not able to pay the airport fees. The landing charges. Listen when a company goes through a cash flow issue.

it affects everybody. Yeah. You cannot isolate one particular creditor or render. No, so, I'm coming to something. If there's a cash shortage. Okay, it's across the board. So across the board. Then there were catering companies which were affected. There was no food. Everybody. After one by one, one by one, there was non payment of certain things, cashflow issue. Did you... at any point. did you think that this is not going to work?

You're still pushing. You were still trying to push yourself. I was pushing. In the hope that. the foreign investment that I'd already negotiated. was going to fructify. Which I had already agreed. Right? With James Hogan. But the permission never came. It was sad. And. I guess my misfortune. Six months after Kingfisher collapsed in October 2012,

the same Etihad was granted permission to invest in Jet Airways. Okay. Then another thing happened, okay? So you were expecting. all of this would happen, you asked your. people, your staff, your employees, to wait. That the money will come in. Yeah. But they were not paid, the staff was not paid. Sadly, no. Right? But there's again a statement that.

your international employees were getting paid, Indian employees were not. And the reason is that because internationally you would have held accountable in. India you could get away with anything. Was that the reason? I didn't know that. But why were you paying international employees and not here? It is very simple, the money was available through ticket collections. in England. Because money was available, staff salaries were paid. In India, the High Court of Karnataka had frozen over 260 crore.

worth of cash. Again, now, I'd like to focus on this non-payment of salaries. There has been. a hell of a lot spoken. about it, right? Which has. pained me no end. It is seriously pained me. In my track record. as chairman of UB group. I would. ask anyone to check.

on how I cared for my employees. I was proud of the care. That I gave to my employees. Why would it be different Kingfisher employees? The company in India had no money. The UB's money of 260 crores. in the bank. with the – sorry –. with the bank under the control of the government of Karnataka.

We applied officially and formally. to the. High Court. Please release the salary money. to pay the salaries. Court. said no. Why? The same banks objected. The same public sector banks objected. Why? Why because they said —. Debt? That money belongs to them.

Because the company had defaulted in payments. But as far as. I was concerned. I asked the court. Please release that money to pay the employee salaries. The banks objected, the courts refused. But you personally took salary from Kingfisher Airlines 33 Crores a year. No no no. I took. salary of 33 crores a year? I wish. Why. do they talk about it then? Who talks? Please show me the balance sheet where it's written.

Can you show me? Not the balance sheet, but the media talks about it. I'll show you the article. Media talks? Ask the media, where's the balance sheet? So you never took salary? I never took 33 crores of salary. Or did you take any salary when other people were not getting paid? Obviously not. I mean, you really think I'd pay myself. to the exclusion of other less well-to-do employees. That's what the world thinks. That's.

unfortunate. view of the world about me. Which is sadly. completely false. And then they all were on the road striking against you. If you would have spoken to them in a nicer way... I don't know. Spoken to them. Try to explain to them. But at the end of the day. They did what they thought was best. They were under stress, I respect that. I'm not. blaming anybody. Okay. A couple of people have said.

some nasty things. which is fine. if they're under pressure. And their livelihood was under pressure. I. fully understand that. And I take it in my stride. But the fact any suggestion. that I willfully did not pay. or that I ignored them and enriched myself in the process is completely false. While all of this was happening, something really tragic happened.

One of your employee's. wife. committed suicide. Because they were not able to pay themselves. Were you aware of that? I became aware of that and upon investigation. That was the culmination of a longstanding dispute. Marital dispute. It was convenient to blame it on Kingfisher Airlines. and non payment of salaries once again. When. people are under stressed and under unpleasant circumstances I don't want to.

comment. on it. In an unsavory way, it would not be right on my part. I mean my sympathies are with the family that. you know, lost. one of their kin. But I can tell you. That. we investigated the matter. and okay, sadly the tragedy did happen. And yes, sadly, equally sadly, that family.

had not been paid their salary. If you'd like to blame it on me, fine, I'll take the blame. As I said I'm not afraid of. taking blame. Where blame is due. I can face up. to reality and truth. Did you feel like you should have said sorry to employees? - Because you were not able to — - I sent condolence letters. Of course I did.

Yeah, but, I didn't copy the media. I wrote a letter of condolence but I didn't copy the media. You know, here's what pissed people off. That. in your private life you were enjoying. You were buying. the Tipu Sultan Sword. You were buying cars in. the UK. The value of Tipu Sultan Sword would not have paid salaries. The two Mercedes Benz cars,

and the figment of people's imagination would not have paid the salaries. And if your suggestion is that I should have laid low in some artificial way. Forget the employees. Forget the shareholders. of. all the other businesses United Spirits, United Breweries, MCF, everybody. Really? That would have been very fair, isn't it?

And behave whether. Behave in a manner where. my. only asset and liability in life was Kingfisher Airlines. I had nothing else. That's the way I should have behaved, right? What about the salaries of the other –. employees of the other group companies? What about the shareholders of those companies?

What about the future of those companies and the management of those companies? So sadly if one company fails, is it your suggestion that the whole group must fail? No, definitely not. Okay. Everybody. loves to talk about the failure of Kingfisher Airlines and of course, Pill me. the blame on me personally. Forget about everything else. It is Vijay Mallya's failure, Vijay Mallya's failure, Vijay Mallya's theft.

Vijay Mallya's fraud. Everything is Vijay Mallya. Fine. What about. United Spiritual Ltd, United Breweries Ltd? From where it started. to where I left off. And the wealth creation in the hands of shareholders. And the wealth creation in the hands of employees. Probably amongst the highest in India in the corporate sector, highest.

All forgotten. Nobody even refers to it. Kingfisher Airlines, Mallya. Hit the rascal. That's it. The narrative begins there. Ends there. Do you think, if. you would have done things differently. probably this side of you would have been more celebrated than. the side which has gotten... Once the media started.

Beginning with one particular channel whose anchor is known. Right? To shout the house down. Right? What did I start by saying? Vijay Mallya, I want to see you eating jail food. Vijay Mallya, I want to see you in jail clothes, etc, etc. Started from there. Everybody had to jump on the bandwagon.

I think in the same time. because we're talking about events. Somebody mentioned. That you. took out 35 million Euros. and invested in buying properties in France. Rubbish. With some. Dummy company called I think Gizmo Holding or something. Tell me if I had siphoned Kingfisher Airlines money, to such an extent.

as people suggest. How would the airline run? On the bank's own admission, on the debt recovery tribunals own admission. 4,999 crores was the debt. Right? Yeah. Rest is all interest. Alright? These suggestions are that I've stolen or misused. most of that or all of it. How would the airline fly?

If all the money borrowed from the bank Vijay Mallya pocketed, how would the airline fly? So all these allegations. and false narratives being painted by people. if you analyze them, they make no sense. What also is not making sense to me is.

When the government said that they're gonna support you. In 2008. FM said that they would provide the loan. Which. they probably did. with the banks. Later in 2011. The Union Minister of the same government. Objects like. he started. they started objecting. that you were not paying even taxes, 150 crore was pending. and it started. putting you in the public eye. There were arrears.

There were arrears. Nobody's disputing that. But compare my arrears with Air India's arrears. Air India's arrears were probably ten times that of Kingfisher Airlines. That was because of the stress of the aviation sector. And why did Air India. didn't get anything? And you got everything, every little.

every little scrutiny happened with you, if Air India was. in trouble more than you, which actually was that case. It's the fact. Yeah, it was a fact. They were in. more. they were in a more daunting situation than yours. Like the airline. But all the focus was on already Kingfisher. Why? You should ask those that. - Why don't you think? - Who turned on the spotlights. Why do you think it happened? Clearly a combination of.

animosity, jealousy. A whole bunch of factors and you know once again unproductive things so. to think about. You know, in life, think positive. C'mon, it costed you a whole life in India. You must have thought about it. Hundreds of times. No, I've not. In any case, since 1988, I've been going to India for less than a 180 days in a year. All my three children are American citizens.

All have lived outside of India. Never in India. My mother has been in this country for over 30 years. What do I go back to? Of course, I will get the most ceremonial welcome. by the Indian media, for sure I will. My goodness, it will be headlines of everything and newspaper. Okay, so, 2012 the airline got suspended. Non-payment of multiple things, working capital, cashflow, everything got. really really bad for you.

And then. the big bash happened. The birthday party. Which is often talked about. In 2015. Go ahead. What happened between 2012 and 2015? With this case. What happened? I'm asking you what happened during that time? Did everybody forgot? Did everybody. like they were not bothered about Kingfisher Airlines. or were the cases are going on? of course, everything was going on, nothing stopped. Nothing stopped. Because people don't talk about that often. What happened like what was going on?

Nothing was going on. That's when the wilful defaulter. and all that... You know what the willful defaulter is all about right? Tell me, what is about? The banks call a wilful defaulter. Of somebody who has the money but won't pay. Yeah. That's called a wilful defaulter. Yeah. Right? I made four settlement offers to the banks. Between 2012 and 2015? Yes. Which they refused to accept. That nobody knows.

What was the settlement you were offering? So many settlement offers including before the court. Right? So it was always intention to settle. I flew through Hyderabad and met the Chairperson. of the State Bank of India at the training academy. in Hyderabad and offered the settlement. It was always my intention to settle. Never did I say I'm not going to pay. And why do you think they didn't accept it? They wanted 14,100 Crores. That's why they didn't accepted it then.

They didn't want your 5000 crores because they were expecting it to go up. Like the sale of your assets will be much higher than. Whatever. Is that? Yeah. Had they accepted my offer they would have gotten 5000 crores. Today, they've got 14,100 crores. But is there any proof do you have? Where. you offered them settlement and they didn't accept? From 2012-2015. The record is with the Supreme Court of India?

The proof. What better proof than the records of the Supreme Court of India? Public documents. So let's say you offered. Yeah. Nothing happened. Nobody. Not even a needle moved. It just kept going on. It kept getting worse. And you knew this trouble was going on.

And in 2015. Apparently, according to the media, this is where things went down. Where you had a grand birthday party. Your 60th birthday party. 18th December. 2015, right? Correct. What happened in that party? Nothing it was a. Party that. Normal party that I had and I've had so many of them. Over the years. Do you think you wouldn't – you shouldn't have done that party? Or made it so public?

Why? Why? Because the whole narrative is against you. You spending —. See this is what the common person would think. If I was. a Kingfisher Employee and I have not gotten paid. For XYZ reason, for. let's say. economic factors, business model, whatever, XYZ reason and I'm not getting paid. My livelihood is dependent on this. And then I see a promoter of my company. spending millions of dollars are Enrique Iglesias to perform for his birthday party. I would get enraged.

I want to. as an employee, at that point, if I've not gotten paid. I don't understand that there are 50 businesses that you've built. I understand only one thing that the promoter of my company is enjoying. On my expense. I would agree with everything that you said except your last –. At my expense. The promoter. I'm talking like a common person that's why I am asking. Raj, the common person didn't know.

That upon objection by the same banks. Karnataka High Court declined to. to agree. to drawing. readily available cash to pay the salaries. Right? Okay, I agree with you the suffering employee. would have also said —. The man has United Breweries, United Spirits is none of my business. Right? Right? So I could have been a thorough hypocrite.

I could've come here to London. and had my party and nobody would have even known. Right? Yeah. Would that have solved the problem? No. Okay. But you didn't do that you did. the public party in India. It was not public. Sorry, it was by invition, but of course. everything that I do is covered by the media. And I paid for it myself. Kingfisher Airlines was in no position to pay.

I paid for it myself. Maybe in hindsight now. Again I'm. we're talking about December 2015. There's an airline that shut in 2012. If you're talking about my birthday party in. December 18, 2012. You probably have. a more significant point. But three years later.

In December, 2015. Okay? A milestone 60th birthday. Right? Still being held against me with such venom. I don't quite get it. But okay maybe it was a mistake. I should have probably come here to London. and had my party and nobody would have known. But once again because I was transparent and lived my life. pretty transparently, as I always did, the media latched on to it and bashed me for it.

Fine. So everything. in the last 10-15 minutes maybe more. That you are questioning me on. our. Indian media generated. Comments and narratives. None of these are facts. But are you not apologetic about what happened? Apologetic? What do I apologize for? For. only. only for the employees of that business. For no one else.

After putting 3000 crores of my own money into the business. I need to apologize? You've been wronged. But so have. your employees of Kingfisher. What would you say to them. who lost their jobs? Who still hold. angst against you? If you were directly just talking to them and not me. What would you tell them? I would say I'm deeply sorry for what happened to them. I would say I'm deeply sorry that.

some of them didn't get paid. their salaries. I have no excuses to offer. I take full responsibility. But. For those who care to listen. There was. money lying in deposit with the Karnataka High Court. I specifically applied to court. to pay the salaries of Kingfisher Airline staff.

The banks objected. and the court refused the permission. There was. really nothing I could do beyond that. And what would you. tell those employees who are still questioning that –. Hey. We were in trouble. and. you tried. everything to get. that money from the court. but it didn't help. Then why did you go out. and.

party like a king on your 60th birthday when we were suffering? We need to look at the timeline here. Kingfisher Airline shutdown in 2012. My 60th birthday was in. December 2015. Right? There was nothing I could do. in the interim. To find money to. pay.

The staff in particular. Because any money that. could have been infused theoretically. would have been taken by the banks. Because all the assets were frozen. Did your legal advice you not to pay? Absolutely not. I told my legal advisors. to find every single avenue to pay. And they. and it. didn't work. They couldn't find a way. Ultimately, because of the freezing. All the money was lying under the control of the court.

So we couldn't touch the money. And every penny that you would have infused just for the intention to pay employees. would have still gotten frozen. You see. The court order did not differentiate between employees. and general corporate purposes. Any money. in the account of the airline was frozen. Frozen by the banks, frozen by tax department. Frozen by service tax, everything was frozen.

The chunk of available cash was with the court. And that was actually cash of UBHL. Not Kingfisher Airlines cash. Of United Breweries Holdings Ltd. One of the co-guruantors. UBHL said we want to pay Kingfisher Airline Staff. Salaries. Please allow us. The banks objected. And the court did not give permission. That is fact.

I would I feel very sad if somebody said I had no intention to pay or that I ignored. To make the efforts. I made every single effort I could. Do you ever feel sorry that you couldn't do anything. to give money to the employees? Obviously but... Are you suggesting that. I'm not sorry for what happened to Kingfisher and the collateral damage.

that was caused to everybody? I'm asking you, are you? I said I was very sad about the fact that —. You were sad but were you sorry. about it? Sorry. I apologize publicly to everyone for the failure of Kingfisher Airlines. Till today I'm willing. to apologize. I did my very best. I tried. very very hard. I put in my money.

Blood, sweat, and tears. It didn't work. Sadly, it didn't work. I'm very sorry. At the end of the day frankly. is what I think of myself when I look at myself in the mirror in the morning. Have you done good or have you not done good? Are you a success or your failure? What is the answer? I'm a big failure according to Indians. Fine. I'm a big failure. But when I look at myself in the mirror I don't see failure.

But does it bother you? Who created 1.75 lakh crore market cap in the. in the. alcoholic business? Who created this? Even after creating such a behemoth, people think you're a failed business owner. Fair enough. Does it bother you? And who made Kingfisher Airlines so public? Who made it?

Damania Airways started and failed. Eastwest Airline started and failed. Right? Jet Airways eventually failed. Right? Modiluft started and failed. Right? Paramount started and failed. You read about them? Only Kingfisher and Mallya. Is that not a targeted attack?

Because here's what got crafted after it. Who crafted it? I'll tell you. I will come to that. Yeah, tell me. Then. So tell me what about all these other aviation failures? See nobody cares about them because nobody was as public as you. So now we're talking. That I pay the price for my own public image? And the fact that you left the country. That's which is another – which is another.

Yeah. So I'll come to the series of events of these. - Both of them. - No problem. Okay. So. 2015 December this happened. Before that. CBI started investigating you. And I appeared before the CBI four times. And CBI. concluded their case. That. they found you siphoning the money. Was that the thing? It was completely false. Okay. There is no allegation of money siphoning by CBI.

What did CBI conclude? Nothing. That I spent on a private jet. Which is Kingfisher Airlines own asset. Yeah. That I misrepresented to IDBI. While taking the loan. What did you miss misrepresent? That I misrepresented. You asked me a question about brand valuation, right? So one of them – one of the allegations was brand valuation. Was it also bizarre like IDBI gave you loan. Yeah. In just two days.

On Sunday you got the money transfered in your bank. But then that was shot term loan. Okay. They got the money back and then they. participated in the consortium lending. Okay. Yeah. So but there is no allegation of siphoning money, is it? Zero. So it was misrepresentation. Yeah that's... And using that money or using the Kingfisher loan proceedings to buy a private jet. Not! — Private jet was owned by Kingfisher Airlines. It was Kingfisher Airlines' own asset. They said they misused it.

I misused it for personal trips. Did you? Think if you see the line of private jets starting from Mr. Ambani's. in. Mumbai Airport. And ask them who uses the jets, you'll get the answer. Come on deflecting is not right way of answering. I'm not deflecting. I'm asking you. What? Did you misuse it?

What is misuse? I don't know whatever they're quoting. Do you agree with or not? So you agree with the CBI? No I'm asking you do you agree with it or not? - I am not agreeing with it. - Obviously, I don't agree with it. Obviously, I don't agree with it. You used it for business purposes only? What do you mean business purposes? If I had to. fly on holiday. I'd say. private jet up you stay here, I'll fly with Air India. That's what CBI had problem with.

Is that the case? Yes. That you took the. common that would not only be the case. That would. be a part of your case. Let's say you... This is what I'm saying that. principle one was misrepresentation. Okay. Yeah. So that is first. misinterpretation. and because of this. they. issued. an LOC. They issued LOC, right? Look out circular. To the immigration office. Vijay Mallya should not leave the country. No. I'm not aware of any of it.

Because. then there was a public issue, once again, in 2015. Where. the LOC which was issued for you. had few words changed. I know nothing about this. Okay so there was –. And this I'm quoting from. again another article. Where... I can show you the article. - Yeah, yeah, yeah. - Where it's. I've never heard of this before. So the article said that you met with someone really powerful. And after that in just few months. the lookout circular got changed.

and the lookout circular changed into —. Okay, next time. to the immigration of officers. that. if within Vijay Mallya comes. to the airport and want to leave the country. You need to inform us where is he going. and for what purposes, you don't need to stop him. But earlier. The CBI. put out a lookout notice that you should not allow Vijay Mallya to leave the country. And this change was made in 2015. I know nothing about this.

This is the first time you are informing me. I went in and out multiple times. Never a problem. At all. And what you're telling me now is news to me. And there were no. LOC. issued or. any other formal notice. The changed happened on 24th November, 2015. Just few words. And it specifically read –.

This was a fresh LOC. That he needs to be questioned before leaving the country. Where is he going? And needs to. and this needs to be informed to CBI. After that he can continue traveling, he should not be stopped. That's fine. You said when in 2015? 24th November, 2015, a fresh LOC was —. And before that. Before that there was just... I don't have an exact date. I must have gone in four times before that. Too... Oh. So then. Where's the LOC?

So all of this is random thing that. you met someone really powerful in Delhi and got changed. and you changed your CBI circular or something. Nonsense. Okay. Then. another thing. then the another series of event happened because after your public. birthday party. People started. losing their shit. They started getting. they started getting pissed. It became even more public. Just 2015, end of it.

Your —. Supreme court interfered I guess. Supreme Court. entered. In this whole case. And. they put up a bench that 3rd March, 2016. Your. Case needs to be heard and you need to be represented in front of Supreme Court. On 1st March, 2016. you. I think you were in Dehi. You went to the Parliament. And 2nd March you left the country.

One day before. when you were. about to be present in front of Supreme Court. Is all of this real? Or none of it is real. No of this is completely false. There was no Supreme Court hearing. I was not summoned to court. I am not aware of any court hearing. I told the Finance Minister. Arun Jaitley. Before leaving for the airport.

And then I flew. from Delhi. to London. I was on my way to Geneva for. FIA world council meeting. Which was fixed months ago. I told the Finance Minister because I went from Parliament. to. Delhi airport. When this news. hit the media. Once again.

It created a storm. Yeah. People went running to Mr. Jaitley. He denied meeting me. A Congress MP saw us. And then said to the media – No, I saw them together. Mr. Jaitley had to retract the statement – Yes, yes. I met him but only while I was walking, it was a fleeting. Meeting.

I never said I went to Mr. Jaitley's office, sat in front of him. Had tea with him. All I said is I told the Finance Minister while leaving. I'm going to London. I've to go to Geneva for a meeting, I'll be back. Please tell the banks to. sit across the table and settle with me. How long does this take? This one sentence? A minute or two. This can be talked while talking. Yes. I didn't say I talked him sitting on a chair and.

discussing with him. But you see the way. he denied it. Then when the Congress MP. pointed out his mistake, that he saw us. He quickly changed. This is the problem with the media. Particularly where I'm concerned. They conjure up sutff. They blow things well out of proportion. Okay, if it's good for their business. Let them continue doing it.

So all of this is nuisance. That. on 2nd March. you left. Delhi airport for London. In a Jet Airways flight. 9W122 from T3. With 55 big suitcases. And somebody says 27. Somebody says 55. I mean different newspapers. Different stuff. What difference does it make? They say LOC then they say no LOC. Then I say the FM, I am going. Then he says no.

Then he said no he had a fleeting meeting with me. And all this 15-18 suitcases. Complete and utter rubbish. So your intention was never to leave the country. Look. Please understand this whole narrative - He's a fugitive. Because this is where it starts. Yeah. This. is coming from people who don't know their facts.

Tell us the facts. I. came to England in 1988. I got my indefinite leave to remain ILR. In 1992. For 32 years, I have been a. permanent resident of the UK. Allowed only to spend 180 days in India. Because I have preserved my non-resident status. since 1988.

Right? That is why I used to go back and forth so often. Right? So I came. I was attending a scheduled meeting in Geneva like I told you. What happened? The loudest anchor in the television industry. Started. All the media piled on. Huge ruckus was created. How did Vijay Mallya leave? How did he leave?

Like any normal person on a Jet Airways flight. That too after telling the Finance Minister that I'm going. Driving from Parliament House to the airport. Right? So this whole chaos started. Right? How does government. normally react to media frenzy? Check your own facts. So I said okay let things cool down.

On top of that. I. was negotiating with my foreign collaborators to sell certain shares. so that I could pay the banks. My intention was always to settle with the banks. Right? Yeah. So I told I wrote to the enforcement director to send me summons. I need some time. I'm negotiating. I want to settle with the banks. I've got some business to do. I've already appeared before the CBI. I will of course I will appear before you.

Right? Just give me some time. What happened in the meantime? They revoked my passport. Revoked it. When? When was this revoked? 2016. Oh, right before you left. Before –. Right after you left? Yeah. Passport gone. How to travel? So you got stuck because they revoked your passport?

Your intention was to come back to country? Many things may have been different. But your intention —. But without a passport where do you go? Nowhere. Correct. Because you were a British citizen. Not citizen. Permanent resident. Permanent resident. I kept my Indian passport because I was a member of Parliament. Okay. Which I could not be a member of Parliament had I not been an Indian citizen.

So if your intention was to come back to the country. Why didn't people allow you? Look that you should the people. Why should I sit and speculate? But aren't they spending. millions of dollars in cases. to. get to extradition done? Yes. Because they have to make a show of things as well, no? Have I —.

Please. Let's be very clear. Can somebody. from the government. Say to the public. What crime have I committed for which I must be investigated. Have I stolen money from the banks? You must have a prima facie case that I've stolen. You can't just make it up in your head. Yeah. They I have stolen money from the bank.

So you need some. prima facie evidence. Right? Have I done any money laundering? Have I done any. drug smuggling? Have I. involved in any violent crime? What. is. the allegation against Vijay Mallya? Nobody can have an allegation against Vijay of dishonesty.

Because I have always been honest and truthful. I've never borrowed. I've never cheated. And I never will. But you got this tag of wilful defaulter. Wilful defaulter is a person. Who can pay and who doesn't pay. That's a crime? That's crime? Isn't it? You make up your mind. Then why did you freeze all my assets.

You froze my assets. In 2016. Right? That's how you've recovered 14,100 crores, right? You can't freeze assets. of a person. On one hand and call them a crook on the other hand. See. They call you wilful defaulter. Because.

you had money. and you didn't pay. And that's why they had to take such a strict action to freeze your assets. But if you would have paid earlier, then they would have not done this. But if you're saying that from 2012 to 2015. you have applied multiple times in the court. that you want to settle. Yes. Why is all of this happening? I think it's very clear it's also been a part of the media where.

a particular senior. officer of the State Bank of India. said to a good friend of mine that. as a banker I would have settled with Vijay a long time ago. But if I. do any settlement with him I'll have the CBI on my neck the very next day. And why do you think CBI has to do all of these things? Because technically, bank — You're saying. - Banks want 14,000 Crores. - Isn't the CBI called a caged parrot?

But then banks ultimately want 14,000 crore. So they don't want. anything to happen. - Why would bank wanna settle your... - Who knows? Who knows if you go to the banks today they may tell you I owe even more money. Tell me real numbers. Because somewhere it's written 9,000 crores. There is no 9,000. That is all imagination. 6203 is the judgment that.

6203 is the 6,203. And you have been vocal about it. I was going through your tweets. Publicly you have been very vocal about it. Hey, I want to pay. Come talk to me. Hey I want to settle. There are multiple times you've just said it. I'll show you letters I've written to the bank. Nothing. We cannot engage with you. Period. And you were. part of the parliament. And you had. you were influential. You had money. You're powerful.

You could do nothing about all of this? What went wrong? That probably is the cause. of everything that followed. Who do you make a poster boy? Somebody who is insignificant, is it? No, why would you want to —. If you want to make an. example of somebody, who do you make an example of? A visible person or an invisible person.

Definitely, visible person. Correct. So there you have got the answer. But why would they want to make an example out of you when you were ready to settle? It was just a business failure in your terms. It suits you, no? To reject a settlement offer. And to continue to claim that. amounts are due to the banks. And therefore you are a defaulter. Therefore we are going to hound you and chase you. It suits the narrative. Today in India. Business failure means fraud.

- If purely that line you're talking about — - Okay? You kept asking me. About me. Why people. tag me wilful defaulter? Why they accused me? Why the narrative was so negative about me? What happened to poor Naresh Goel? What happened? India's biggest airline jet collapsed. Naresh Goyal went to jail.

What happened to. people like Gautum Thapar in Delhi? In jail. Right? So if your business does badly. You're automatically referred to as a fraud. The inferences that you've stolen. In which countries does this happen? The biggest companies in the world fail. Right? Are there.

their management, seen their management put in jail? Are they accused of fraud? The whole purpose of business. is associated with certain risk as well. Yeah. Right? But in India sadly. You have a business. That fails. You're accused of fraud. and. improper conduct.

And. people say and the government and agencies that. You're fraud or. people who are businesses have failed are fraud. Because. They've taken money from the banks which is a common taxpayers. money. Which is common people's money. So if you take common people's money and you're not able to repay then you're.

considered wrong. But if in your case. If they've. actually recovered more than 2.5x of it. or probably somewhere around that number. Why are they still behind you? Because as I said. have you ever heard. Of. any. Bank. Not rendering an account. to a borrower or guarantor?

Despite fifteen reminders. The same banks. have not given. me a statement of account. Not one, Have you ever heard of such conduct, anywhere in the world? For the first time. It is through the statement in Parliament. of the Finance Minister. and the printed report. of the Ministry of Finance.

That they have shown 14,100 crores. recovered from me. The government have. The banks have not rendered a statement of account. That is why I have gone to the Karnataka High Court. Asking the court to direct the banks to give me a statement of account. That is the pitiful state of averse. Now let me explain things to you very. in summary fashion. In this entire debt of Kingfisher Airlines and the recovery.

You have the recovery officer. Of the debt recovery tribunal. Yeah. The debt recovery tribunal is the one that. that that gave the certificate of debt. They have recovery officers. Whose job it is. to recover against that recoveries certificate. And inform the tribunal. About how much has been recovered. Because when the full amount is recovered. The debt recovery tribunal will issue a discharge certificate.

That your debt is paid. Second is because. the second guarantor, United Breweries Holdings Ltd is in liquidation. It is in the control of the official liquidator. The official liquidator is also obliged to give. an account to the court. Right? On the liquidation. Which includes. being a co-guarantor of Kingfisher Airlines debt. Right?

Both these. have stated in court. in judicial proceedings. that the banks have been fully paid. Yet the banks have not submitted a statement of account. I've had to go to the Karnataka High Court. Pleading with them to please direct the banks. to submit a statement of account. And of course. the official liquidator and the recovery officer as well. This is the conduct of those banks.

And you're asking me questions about why they. didn't do this and why they didn't do that? Does it happen with other entrepreneurs as well? I'd be shocked if it did. I've never heard of anything like this. Do you think the Indian system. gets rigged. against the entrepreneurs or the business owners who get too powerful after a point? It's certainly riggable. Because in your case this is what happened, right? In my case all the facts.

are there for everyone to see. Sir, what's the future? Like what's going to happen now, what's happening? In your story, what you're telling is completely different than. anything and everything that. any Indian person out there. Who will do little research about you would. find it's completely different than what you're telling. But. if you do research on me, what are you going to find? You will only find the narrative.

generated over a period of time by the Indian legacy media. And. to a. certain extent the government. And what they have said. And of course. when I say government, it includes CBI and ED and this, that and the other. Alright? That's all you'll find. All of which is false narrative. Either deliberately written.

Or. in some cases with the media ignorantly written. So is there a. businessmen politician media kind of nexus against you? In India? I don't know who is against me. Except this government. And I made no bones about it that I am their poster boy. I am also a political football. Right? You must have heard.

the narrative. BJP tells Congress - You helped him with the loan. Congress. responds to BJP - You let him run away. Vijay Mallya is the football in the middle. What is the biggest challenge. of doing business in India? Government. Explain. It's in the Indian DNA. No matter what.

the state government or. federal government may say about ease of doing business in India. There is no ease of doing business in India. That are hurdles bureaucratic hurdles. Political hurdles. All along the way. They may have reduced. over a period of time. But but. no I mean you can't compare India and ease of doing business in India with. any. of the western. economies. But how did you manage that before.

like earlier you expanded your group from. couple of hundred crores to thousands of crores. Then definitely you must be navigating. somehow with all these challenges, what did you do? That's what I said I had to maintain. good relations. with. almost 29 countries. that's 29 states, all of which. were empowered by the constitution, to have their own policy on liquor, so. I had to effectually be in the good books of 29 Chief Ministers.

What do you mean by. becoming or getting into good books of the government? You know. like were you doing favors? They were asking favors to you? Was there —. Look, let me tell you. When elections were announced. I would. desperately want to take a holiday outside India. Why? Because I didn't want to be accessible. The politicians always felt that you know. The.

liquor business was the cash cow that would. meet their. electoral aspirations and you know the. sometime these aspirations were. completely unreasonable. and impractical. But no I mean. look. dealing with government doesn't mean. Underhand exchange. of. money. Okay. It. definitely doesn't. I mean whoever said that. you know, I can buy my way through.

XYZ is wrong. Okay. You can have good relations with people. and provided you. present –. A proposal to them that meets their own political objectives. It works well. But. would there. ever be exchange under the table as well? All of that used to work? You know... I'm not going to confirm or deny that because I leave it to your imagination. Because I think you know India as much as I do.

Yeah. And. They would ask for. backing the election campaigns. That's what they would ask technically or were there. was there something else as well? Look the demands were varied. Give me example of 2-3 demands. Demands were first of all cash. Second- copious amounts of alcohol. Which is. seems to be an essential part of any electoral campaign. For free. Vehicles.

Vehicles. Cars? Vehicles, jeeps, cars, yeah. So. Just multifarious. But. the easiest for me was –. It was alcohol. Which is. at the end of the day, I was in a privileged position. Heading India's largest alcohol company. I couldn't say or I find. you know. but. yeah, alcohol plays. a big role in elections in India. even today.

How do you make money now? How do I make money? Like today how do you make money? I make –. I get a modest salary from my company. Not the Indian companies. No. So you. like do you own anything here? There are companies here or another countries. Of course. I mean. I told you I've been a non-resident since 1988. Okay. Even though I sold Berger Paints in 1996, I've had.

several other businesses outside of India. For the last 30 years. What was your network at peak in India? I don't know. Because it fluctuated with the share value. Because if any number you had. As subject to a great amount of speculation. Okay. Frankly. What difference does it make? What's your networth today? I don't know. Probably zero. According to the banks. Probably. Walk me through your day-to-day.

What do you do now? After all of this is done. What time do you wake up? How do you keep yourself busy? What do you do? Well I have six dogs. I love them, I love dogs. I play with them. I like to keep abreast of international news. I. Love my dogs, I play with them. A lot. I have a few classic cars. Which I like to tinker with. But I have an office.

on the property next door with my staff. And yeah as I told you. I have running businesses. And so. I. keep an eye on them. But sadly. a lot of time is taken on unproductive. and very expensive legal matters. Sadly once again. The banks. in India. who are. State owned banks. Public sector banks.

Carried their attack on me here even before the UK courts. So as if Indian legal proceedings were not enough. They even. came here. Fine, so, I have to defend myself. And the businesses that you run here. they fund the legal fees and everything that you're doing here. There's... let's put it this way, there's. enough to. go around. What kind of business is here? The same brewery or something else?

Oh yeah, yeah yeah. Basically. saved my alcohol business. Alcohol brewery and all that? You love it. You love doing the same thing. That's what's in my blood, you know, I used to joke when I was. young I said I was born in a bottle. Do you feel restricted now? Because you just use word I was born in a bottle do you feel that? You've been. caged in a bottle again with all these legal matters? Because you don't have a passport.

You're a free bird flying around all over the world. Yeah. So now you're stuck here. That freedom went. in 2016 when the Indian government revoked my passport. So. it wasn't a suspension. It was a revocation. So. I knew. Back then. The consequence was no trouble.

Right? So. For a guy who used to be on a plane 3-4 times a week. flying around the world. To be. in one country for nine long years. Certainly. a game changer. It must be. But. It's not. A matter of life and death.

I mean it isn't that profound. Because there's enough and more to do. And to enjoy. A quality of life. That okay has shrunk in many ways. From. what used to be but. it's still. Okay. One must get on and move on. Does it not bother you? No. Do I. well. it doesn't bother me. Do I look bothered?

Not to me. It's not a question of. what is the meaning of. do I. get up in the morning and wipe my tears away every day? No. Someday. Some point. You're like. I'm done with this like what the hell is happening with me? What is my. solution? What are my. options? The government of India has revoked my passport. Right? All I can get is a one way travel pass to India that's it.

What about my Constitutional. Rights? That every Indian citizen is entitled to a passport. And what happens. if I try to enforce those? It'll drag on for years. in the court. By the time I might be. too old to travel. So don't you feel lonely here?

No well I have a lot of my friends. Here in England. I. There are people who. come and visit me. Well. Another. One of life's lessons is when times are tough you realize. who your actual friends are. And I have realised that. Very comprehensively. When those who used to be. my so-called buddies who.

in times of my. Heyday. for lack of a better word, are nowhere to be seen. You used to hang out with a lot of. Billionaires, bollywood celebrities, politicians, lot of people and your friends from the corporate world. They all stopped? Taking up your calls? No no no no. The politicians certainly stopped. And I think as one. one of the many politicians explained to me.

quite truthfully, which I respect. He says, "If we seem to be associated with you, the government will come after us.". You know, because I think. that. in the political world, I think it's pretty well known and. more importantly pretty obvious that this government is after me. So they want to protect themselves. As far as. Corporate titans are concerned.

Kiran Mazumdar-Shaw bless her soul. She's like my sister makes it a point to be in. constant touch. Comes to England. We always have a meal together. And like that there are few other. good friends. Who keep in touch but. otherwise, no. Certainly not as frequently as I would have been in touch with them or seen them. When I was. in India and all these troubles hadn't started.

Talk about Kiran Mazumdar-Shaw. She. publicly talks about you and how close you were like since childhood you're friends. And she talks about your generosity, your optimism. She's been very vocal that. You. gave it. all. to save and fight it all. You. she. has gone out in public and said that. Just it was bad times and bad things which happen to you. But. you were right and you. gave it all away.

So she talks about it and someone of. that stature. living in a very. Public market. in country like India. usually people stay away from these conversations and people would want to. she talked but she doesn't. She talks about it everywhere, every time people ask about you. She's been okay about it. In fact, there was a statement that. She said. Lot of people are optimistic. Vijay. was. probably rather more optimistic than most. And she talks about it.

Let me tell you Kiran and I grew up together. I talked about the Brewery House in Bangalore. At that time, there was a little colony. So there was a Brewery house in which I lived and then. four other bungalows. The one next to the brewery house was actually. occupied by Kiran Mazumdar and her father. Her father was a chief brewer and the technical director of UB. Okay. Okay. And. So Kiran and her two brothers and mum.

grew up. In my house. In my in my colony. With one wall separating us, so we were. very very close. And. Kiran. has been. very very different. She started off. being a qualified brewmaster. How many Indian women. Can you think of who would go and. qualify as a brewmaster?

But Kiran. was determined to do it and she did it in Australia. So. Kiran. as an entrepreneur. not only has been brilliant but has a. super brilliant track record. But she's a tough cookie and she speaks her mind. Which is something that people should respect. And being a woman at that. So I'm so grateful for her.

public support. of me. She knows what I went through with Kingfisher Airlines. I used to share it with her all the time. And she knew that I gave it my all. Forget about just putting in 3,000 crores. I mean every. bit of my blood sweat and tears went into trying to make Kingfisher Airlines work. Now that. she isn't here, you're not there, here, your.

loan, friends, parties, businesses, that busy restless life, nothing is there. In nine years, what was the loneliest day of your life? I. I always have had something to do. I haven't been sitting. Alone. I told you I –. my interests. Keep me occupied. My pace of life is.

slowed down dramatically. My pace of life now is probably one of semi-retirement. To be honest. But. that's what happens. When. you reach retirement age, isn't it? So. the frenzy of the past. Doesn't last forever. When I'm in that face. But I have enough and more interest to keep me.

occupied. Tell me, what do people misunderstand about you? I don't know what people understand to begin with. Forget about misunderstanding. I mean. People. in general, particularly the media. they hate my guts. They don't like the fact that I rarely get flustered. And. they tried to break me down deliberately. Brick by brick.

They tried very very hard but. you know, maybe it's my upbringing in life. Maybe because I started very young. I'm tough. And tough. So I don't. get browbeaten. I don't get pushed over. I stand my ground. And the media hate it. They absolutely hate it. So. I've heard all this. Mallya is arrogant.

Mallya is a show off. XYZ and the narrative keeps repeating time and time and time again. Because. I have never taken out my handkerchief and started weeping in front of them. They would love that. If I did that in front of the legacy media. probably the whole narrative about me would change. But. that's not me. Is this also —. Has this become a defense mechanism now?

There was never any defense mechanism. Now it has become your image that – Hey I don't get. I'm not going to break in front of you guys, so I'm gonna stick through it. And that's why I won't show my real side. I won't show my real emotions. I won't show what I'm feeling. What I'm feeling is real. There is no other side. There is no other side. Please understand. For 50 years. I've been in charge.

I've been. through a lot. I've been there done that. Stuffing me up. I faced the crisis of Kingfisher Airlines. I felt it more than anybody else. I gave it my all but I kept myself together. Because I was a leader. If I'd crumbled and collapsed. the airline would have crumbled and collapsed a lot earlier than it did. What are you feeling right now? As you talk about.

you gave it all and you still couldn't save. Kingfisher. Well I'm sad about it because you know it's not just about Kingfisher. I have never been used to business failure. I took risks. I made bold decisions and I built. My core business in alcohol. Into something I could be. greatly proud of. I failed with Kingfisher and that hurts me more than anything else.

Kingfisher was a wonderful product. Probably the most awarded airline ever. Providing connectivity to places in India that were never connected by air before. And in an environment. promising -. Growth. Today, India is the biggest single growth market for aviation in the world.

Can you imagine if Kingfisher was still flying, it was just circumstances at that particular time. Government policies that. didn't help. And mounting losses. but I gave it my all I. as I told you, quite apart from putting in. 3,000 crores cash. Into Kingfisher Airlines. And the final straw was —. The refusal to let. Etihad. invest in Kingfisher.

And. that was it. I'd run out of options. Can you imagine how I felt? I felt miserable. What's your biggest fear now? My fear? Are you afraid of anything? Well. What can I be afraid of? What can I be afraid of? What do I do that would scare me? Living the semi-retired life.

What can happen that's going to? Scare me. Extradition. Oh yeah, look. If you're talking about the legal issues, there are multiple legal issues. Right? Which. I will defend. Before the courts of law. Both in this country, as well as in India. And. Any legal case can go either way.

You can't sit and predict. The outcome. Neither can you celebrate the potential outcome and neither. can you cry about. a potential outcome. That's what. legal cases are all about. Are you prepared for the worst? Of course. I have to face the worst. I. I've. No qualms and no doubts in my mind that. if the worst is what is destined for me.

That's what's destined for me and you face it head on. What do you think is worse? What is ? What can happen – the worst? Oh what I think is very clear what the Indian government wants. What many of the Indian media. anchors want. Jail clothes. Jail food. In Tihar or other or God knows... Which jail in India. That's it and spend the rest of my life behind bars.

That's it. Have you ever imagined yourself actually going to jail? But if that's what is inevitable what option do I have? Is it inevitable? Might be. I'm not an astrologer. I'll fight my way in court. Doesn't it scare you? That I lived a king-sized life and now I might end up in jail. And those... That is how I'm gonna. end my life like. probably. Correct. So. I said.

earlier today. Right? Hero to zero. And you're okay with it? What option do I have? Do you ever wake up and think like –. Shit! Why me? What is this happening? Because in your head you are clear and you say that. you've not done anything wrong. So. Do you ever feel like –. Why the hell me? Maybe that's my destiny. Maybe. my stars are misaligned.

Do you believe in it? No. I don't believe in astrology. But. Do you believe in God? God? Very much so, I'm deeply religious. I've gone to. Most of the temples in India particularly South India. I've made my modest offerings. To various temples. I. I don't know whether you know but –.

The Sabarimala temple in Kerala, the entire. Gold roof was donated by me. Tirupati, Tirumala. Temple. The entire gold plating of the front of the sanctum was donated by me. I've donated. Dwajasthambas in the Subramanya temple and. Mookambika temple. I. Yeah, so, I. I definitely believe in god.

Do you not then question it? - Sometimes... - No, I don't question it. I just. That – Hey I believe. like I believe in god so much I do so much. for my religious. belief. and still I am going through all of this. Yeah but. ultimately god will protect me. That. If I have to have a rough ride. In the process. maybe that was also what god wants. Do you think winning the case.

is. important for you now. Or. you're like even if it gets trashed. I've come terms to my life I'm aging it's okay. Unfortunately, the word stretch doesn't work. in English courts. Okay? There's nothing on a stretching a case in this country. In India, yes, sadly. That's why legal matters take so much time to resolve. Here. date's fixed, trial date fixed, decision rendered, story over.

So you can't. Willfully kind of string things along. But is it important for you to win? Yes, because I believe I should win on merit. What have I done? I've done nothing wrong. I haven't... I'm not a criminal. If you could go back to your younger self. What would you tell your younger self? Would you tell.

him to do anything differently? I think the values I have instilled in my. My son in particular and. my. all my three children is by example my hard work. They've. of course, they were very young but they've seen how hard I worked. And. basically the dedication and commitment to your objectives and your responsibilities. That's it. Would you go to your younger self and tell something different?

What. what. what choices would I have? if you gave me a choice on what I would choose and my choice but... If I was —. Probably never start Kingfisher Airlines. Because that all costs you the trouble. Yeah. Good possibility. Good possibility. That maybe I should have just. said. I'm going to stick to my core business of alcohol and just not do anything else. Do you think any part of it you would have. dealt with. little.

in a different way? Anything. about you. About the choices you've made. Now maybe I made one wrong choice in. listening to the Finance Minister Mr. Pranab Mukherjee. When I went to him. I realised the writing was on the wall. They were very tough times. And I told him I have to downsize this airline. And he said no no you cannot, and the banks will support you and so on and so forth. And yeah I. listened to him, maybe I shouldn't have, I should have gone ahead and downsized it.

And had I downsized it the financial burden would have been far less. And. probably Kingfisher would. have been flying till today. What's one thing about extreme wealth that. People, common people, don't understand. I don't know because I've never had. extreme wealth. What? Ever. The kind of wealth you had was extreme. For. a large share of people.

around the world, not just our own country. once again the major misconception. Just because I had the Kingfisher calendar with. pretty models. Just because I. I sponsored. the Indian derby in horse racing. Is because. I sponsored fashion. All of which. were. to my mind marketing tools. with the singular objective of promoting my brands.

And. I got the tag of – King of good times. which. gave the impression that I was super rich. I didn't spend a penny from in my pocket. None. But you were super rich. You still are super rich. I'm not. All my assets. In India have been taken. Right? So yes there were thousands of crores. They're all gone. Right? So what do I've left?

That's India. Here. you're sitting in my house. I've explained my lifestyle. It's normal. What's. super rich about it? C'mon. This is... What's super rich about it? This is super rich. Let's just. agree to disagree here, because... C'mon. What are you even talking about this is.

not a life of somebody, a normal, taxpayer or a normal person go to a job or. 99% of the people in the world. Were you ever in control of your public image? Why? I've never even tried. Because what you're telling the version that I get to. see in last two days. and what probably. millions of people would get to see now. Is there a version that.

is completely different that is out there? That's why I'm doing the podcast with you. You built a personal brand which crashed down. way worse than Kingfisher airlines. Did you ever make it? Or it was always just the media who did it? This was only the media that did it. So you were never in control. of your personal brand ever at any point? Not once. Never even paid attention to it. Are you never bothered? No, why should I bother?

Then why bother now? Absolutely correct. But what's going on like why. why do you care now? Because I'm not talking about brand Vijay Mallya. I'm talking about how I have been wronged. I'd like to. show you something. Alright? Here is. Here is the recovery certificate.

Of the debt recovery tribunal. Right? It says recovery certificate. 6203,35,03,879.42 [6203 crores 35 lakhs 3879]. And paisa. 42 only. That's the 6203 crores. plus. interest at 11.5% with yearly. rests. Right? So that is –.

That is evidence. Of the debt. Right? Okay. You asked me. Earlier. Where did this 9,000 crore. Figure come from? This is the. official. Debt recovery tribunal. Karnataka Bangalore's. document. Yeah. That's. and they've said that you owe 6203 crore rupees.

Me along with four others. Correct. Okay. Kingfisher Airlines, United Breweries. Vijay Mallya, Kingfisher Finevest. Okay. So the assets of all those combined. Right? Would need to satisfy the judgment that of 6203 crores. Yeah. Before I go very. further. I'm the one under attack. Not all four.

Anyway. You asked me about where this 9,000 figure came from. Yeah, because it's written 6203. No problem, plus interest, whatever the case maybe. That is dated 2017, if you see the date of the document. Yeah. I can't... Where is this? Maybe you should go to the end. Okay. Last signing,

yeah. Date of delivery is. 26. July, 2017. Correct. Okay? Then. I'll show you another. Report about an interview with the Prime Minister. Okay. March 29, 2019. In which. the Prime Minister,

has said —. He owed 9,000 crore. but government recovered 14,000 crore. Says PM Modi on India's. action against. Vijay Mallya.

But. Why would a PM say 9,000 crore? Where this number... I'm as perplexed as you are. Because the banks have not. ever submitted a statement of account to me. Which in itself is very strange. Right? The Prime Minister has said it and it has been widely reported. Alright?

And it quotes the figure of 9,000 crores. Now. The Prime Minister of India. is not going to make a frivolous statement. Somebody must have told him this number. But I wonder. if. there was no keen governmental interest in me. It's not normal for a Prime Minister of the world's largest democracy. to be talking about recovery from.

a guarantor called Vijay Mallya. He addressed it because –. Your case was very public. And a lot of people were questioning it. You became a public matter. You are no more a private. defaulter. So I'm the only one according to you. No. You were way too public than others. There are several other. companies who. have borrowed a lot more money. Seriously, a lot more money.

But nobody gets mentioned, anyway, that's fine. I'm just. narrating the sequence of events. Then. Before we go there –. Yeah. Who are you actually fighting against? Media? Government? Or judiciary? I'm not in. court against the media. I'm not in court against.

the judiciary, I can't be. I'm defending myself. From those who are prosecuting me. And the prosecutor is either the government or the bank. Simple. Okay. I'll go through. the series of events. Let's go. through those events together. One of these sort of allegations is that I improperly. borrowed money from the IDBI bank.

By. some sort of nexus. Between you and the general manager. And no no... the chairman, the managing director and executive directors which. is. a lot of people were involved. So that the normal rules of lending were not. applicable to you. IDBI bank hired. The Reserve Bank of India and they. Ministery of Finance representative on the board.

All the loans that Kingfisher airlines received were approved by their board. Right? That. I will draw your attention. to. the. public statements and. 2021. Because IDBI is a. publicly listed entity, had to report their. Financial performance of the stock exchange.

And. announcing the quarter one results. The Managing Director and CEO MK Sharma. Said that 278. crores. by way of principle. and 331 crores by way of interest. aggregating 753 crores. was recovered. From Kingfisher airlines this is in 2021. And therefore IDBI was paid.

in. full. Then why. Why does CBI and.

ED find you guilty? Because once they file the charge sheets. The presumption is that. You're guilty. until you prove yourself innocent. Whereas the law. requires the opposite. You are presumed innocent. until they prove you guilty. I'm still waiting for the CBI and enforcement directorate.

to produce. evidence of my guilt. But. they continued to pursue me. on behalf of the banks. Now. You see here. Right? The. this. follows. The Finance Minister's statement. in Parliament on the floor of Parliament. On December 17, 2024, which a few months ago.

But here is the annual report. of the Ministry of Finance printed. Hard Copy. For the 2024-2025. In which they say, under 4.2.14. Restitution of properties to victims of money laundering. slash legitimate claimants. Okay? And it goes on to say the enforcement directorate is not only actively pursuing.

the economic offenders to unravel the money laundering. but at the same time is also making efforts. for the restitution. or return of assets to the banks and others. who have been defrauded by the offenders. Right? The ED has successfully restored properties. valued at approximately ₹ 22,280 crores. to victims or legitimate claimants.

The details of the restitution/restoration. done by ED are given below. 1. Vijay Mallya Case. Quantum of properties restored 14,131.6 crores. And in the comment section. details of restoration. says. complete. amount. of attached properties. have been successfully restored. to the public sector.

banks. How did they recover 14,000 crores? What did they do? They have not given me a statement of account. So you don't know what properties or shares. have been sold? We talked earlier about the. properties that were given to them, right? So everything given... Walk me through it again, if you can please. What were the things that — How did they recover 14,000 crores?

They attached all my assets. And. highlight 2-3. - All my shares, properties. - Which got like 14, 000 crores. Everything they attached. And the sold but. in the absence of a statement of account can you believe it? That from 2017. the date of the DRT ordered till today 2025. the banks have not given me a statement of account. How much.

recovery. they made, on which date? How much interest they have charged? How the interest gets reduced because of recoveries made? Etc. And what the net position is? Nothing. Fifteen reminders. to the banks. From my. English lawyers. Remain unanswered. Letters from me personally. to the chairman of the SBI. Remains unanswered.

And. My last letter requesting a meeting to resolve these issues. came back with a response saying –. We are not interested in meeting. I have had to go to the Karnataka High Court. To request the court to direct the banks to give me a statement of account. Is this normal? Do you think there is. another. example like this anywhere in the world?

I mean. it's ridiculous. So if I'm not targeted. Then. why am I being treated like this? But recovering. all the money that you owed. is not as same as you paying them willfully. These are two different things. Yeah, so. - Maybe you comitted? - I made. Four different settlement offers. in writing. From when to when?

It was around 2016. Including before the Supreme Court of India. Which the banks dismissed. Before you left the country, you made this. Yes, yes, absolutely. Absolutely. I've been trying to settle with the banks. Do have that proof? Yeah, it's public record, Supreme Court of India records. Absolutely. I would also like to remind you I told the Finance Minister that I was leaving. In 2016, in March and told him that could he please facilitate.

a meeting with the banks to settle this loan issue. You know, here's. something that doesn't add up for me. On 29th February, 2016. Supreme Court announced. that. The plea seeking action against Vijay Mallya. would be heard on March 3. And you left on March 2nd. I'm not aware of the Supreme Court.

directive. How is it possible? Somebody from inside must have told you something because... If a was Supreme Court. declares a date against you, how were you not aware? You were already fighting there were lawyers after lawyers. I'm sure there must be something. Because there was no such Supreme Court directive. Simple. But it's out there in every media. everywhere. but it's written, like if you go back, if you... Yeah... If you search today all the newspapers online.

everything that you see. It's said that on 29th. February Supreme Court directed that and you left on March 2nd. But my world council meeting. Okay? Obligation and appointment was fixed three months before that. That is okay. I'm not saying that you. That was already a well established travel plan. Plus I once again remind you. I told the Finance Minister himself. on the day of my departure.

but that doesn't mean that you were not aware of this. You... What I'm. I'm sorry I don't get it. Aware of the fact that Supreme Court has a hearing against you on March 3rd. Absolutely not! There was no such hearing. There was no such hearing. Supreme Court. has. said this. Right? So like I have provided you documentary evidence, if I'm shown a piece of paper. That states that there was a Supreme Court hearing in my case.

Scheduled on the day of my departure. March 3rd. You left on March 2nd. So. Unfortunately, I don't have the Supreme Court document but I only have news clippings. I'm not aware of any such Supreme Court directive. I'm not aware of that. Okay then the other case you said. once you landed here, your passport was revoked.

You wanted to maybe come back. But. you were yourself in shock that the passport was revoked, right? Yes. Walk me through the day when you got to know that you can't come back to India. I don't remember the exact date but. I. No, like what were you going through? When did you get. the moment you got to know that you passport's been. suspended. or revoked. Yeah but suspension and. other forms of restriction would have been.

Understood or perceived differently but revocation of a passport. It's the most severe form. Of withdrawal, right? To revoke. Yeah. So. because I did not. attend the summons. of the enforcement directives. To which I replied. and I said I'm coming back but I need some time. I need to arrange some money to pay off the bank loans etc.

But they revoked the passport. What. they. intended to achieve. by revocation of my passport. I still. do not know. But. So. on March 2nd you left. March 8th. Banks inform Supreme Courts that. you have left the country. On 15th April, your suspension came. for your passport.

Revocation. Suspension was 15th April, 2016. And 24th April was the revocation. You know the dates better than me. Okay, fine. So from 15 to 24 MEA says because there was no reply from you. they had to revoke it. Why didn't you reply between. after 15th when you got to know that your passport is getting suspended. I replied to them. I don't remember but they revoke the passport I mean that's what matters. Because you were not.

Replying to them that's what their reply is. That's what they officially told you. That's what they have said it officially in public. But I'm not aware of.. I didn't go talk to them. I'm not I... I can only talk about what I could find online through newspapers. That's the only thing unfortunately I could talk about. Sad thing. in my case is a lot of people concoct things. But it's fine. I mean. ultimately the bottom line is the passport was revoked. Yeah. So. And then —. It remains revoked.

So. didn't you fight back? What is there for me to do? - To get the passport back? - I've to go to court. I've to claim my rights under the Constitution of India. That I have a constitutional right to a passport. Yeah so fight like what everyone else. Like the way you would go back and be like this is. wrongfully done to me. so let me get my passport back, I'll fight it. I'll come back to the country. I'll abide by the law and I'll fight in the court. In your view. how many fronts should somebody open up?

How many battles should you. open up. and engage in? Just everything? Unlimited? I have enough and more to do. Right? And I want to focus. my legal battles. Remember. they. are not only time consuming. Reading volumes of legal papers is no fun.

And. lawyer fees are expensive. So. one at a time. But don't you think. It makes it worse for you. because you didn't come back to the country. They tag you as fugitive, fraud. and all of these are tags because you choose to not come back to the country. If I have a fat assurance of a fair trial.

and. a dignified existence in India. You may be right. But I don't. Would you be willing to return to country if you're assured fair trial? If I'm assured, absolutely, I will think about it seriously. But. you should also be aware. that. there are other people.

who the government of India. is targeting. For extradition from the Uk back to India. In whose case. they have got. judgment from the. high court of appeal. That Indian detention conditions. are violative of article 3 of the constitution — Of the ECHR, I'm sorry. And therefore they can be sent back.

The plea was basically –. The prolonged detention. without trial. For which. we all know there are numerous examples. They just. lock you up and throw away the key. That's not justice. But you were. here extradited as well, right? You lost the case. It's alright, I mean, I have. they arrested you as well and then they left they. granted you bail, right? What happened?

Normal part of extradition. Normal. That's the procedure. What happened with extradition? Nothing. My stay in England is fully legitimate. But. you lost the case and UK High court, right? To the. Indian authorities. There is more than the particular case that you're referring to. So there are. proceedings, ongoing proceedings. In this country. It's one of the legal battles.

I'm fighting. That I told you about. But if you're assured a fair trial, what do you think? Is that assurance. what does it look like? What guarantees would you need. that you would ever think of considering? That's something for the lawyers to discuss. But if you would agree with me. the conduct. and the track record of the CBI and ED in respect of other unfortunate people.

doesn't inspire too much confidence, does it? I mean I can rattle off a whole bunch of names of people. Alright? See let's talk about. - Just your case. - I also told you. about the fact that in India. sadly. a business failure. is compared. or. is equivalent to a fraud. But there are numerous cases of Indian businessmen. Who. have defaulted on loan.

and they've still stayed in the country, and have fought and they've not left the country. And that's why people don't call them a crook. They look them in the bad eye because that's something which socially. we are conditioned to look at in that way. But they've stayed there. That's why they've not been called. fugitives or fraud. And there are cases like. there's so many cases like that. Fine call me a fugitive for not. going to India. post March. I didn't run away.

I flew out of India on a pre-scheduled visit. Right? Fair enough, I did not return for. Reasons that I consider. are valid. So. if you want to call me a fugitive. Go ahead. But where's the thief coming from? Where's the thievery? Because. the agencies in the country. CBI, ED. Courts, the highest Court.

They all. have found misrepresentation of funds. and they have cases against you and they've concluded their cases by saying that. your financial. transactions were not clean. There's no theivery there. You took loan. Your company Kingfisher Airlines took loan. To revive the company. But then use. you took that money and offshored that money. into different accounts around the world.

That's what the case is about. If I'm not mistaken I think. CBI. in 2017. they concluded around 423 crores were found. Then ED. said something around 3000 crores. Had some problem with money laundering. So there were these numbers. I can find exact numbers and I can quote which. I found out. No problem. But. why like ED has said 3,547 crore was laundered.

In 2017, CBI alleged that 423 crore was. From Kingfisher Airlines loan was siphoned for unrelated expenses. Can you explain why that happened? Why these all these agencies are against you? And. multiple courts are against you and forget this. If you're calling India and everybody's. system is nexus, they all are trying to make you a fraud. Multiple international courts. Swiss Switzerland authorities, UK High court. One of the courts from UK, they also found you guilty for misrepresentation funds, right?

- And they've lost cases too. - Swiss court? Swiss not court. Swiss authorities. What about the Swiss authority? They've also found that they were transactions. - During those times? - Swiss authorities have found nothing. The Swiss authority froze my children's accounts. based on a request. by the Government of India. They did not adjudicate on anything. The government of India wrote to all these foreign governments.

saying Vijay Mallya and his family's properties should be frozen. Right? Only the Swiss. acted on it. The French. acted on it. Fine. They were not. stolen properties or. acquired. from. any money due to. due from. Kingfisher Airlines to the banks. There is absolutely no evidence. So CBI and ED.

are well-known to concoct, fabricate. and present false evidence. That's fine. But they have to prove it as I said. the norm is you are innocent until you're proven guilty. Not the other way around. Now, let me explain, the 423 crores. In an airline. more than 50%. of operating costs are in foreign currency. You release planes you pay in dollars.

Okay? You import spares, you pay in dollars. You have. aircraft checks and services you pay in dollars. Right? So the money has to go out of India. You can. concoct whatever you want. and say that money sent out of India means siphoning money. But why are they calling it unrelated expenses? If all of these were the expenses for these reasons. they would be related expenses. But. that. is a question that the CBI must answer.

The allegations are against me. I am refuting those allegations. I am saying all these allegations are complete nonsense. And how would you explain 3,547 crores which ED. has alleged. That's not sent out of India. That is a borrowed money from the banks. But they claim it has been laundered. What is laundered? If if I laundered it means, what are you suggesting, I stole it?

What is laundered? Launder to me is trying to turn. cash to check and check to cash that's laundering. Right? If they say I've laundered the money. What are they saying I did with that money? Did I steal it? Did I. Fund my lifestyle with it? What is. the essence? - What is the charge of laundering? - Here's the —. Here's. the basic case let me try to.

explain you what. a common man in India. understands about your case. in very basic language. If I borrow a hundred rupees from a bank. I use ₹50 from that. money. to buy. a property outside India. and I only have 50 left. And that 50 I spent in my business trying to make it work. And then when the banks are asking me. to get the money. I say I don't have any money. Now banks are not saying that why did you burn.

the ₹50 in making the business work, they are questioning why did. you transfer this ₹50 to buy something else outside. That is the whole case and in your the case numbers are outrageous. Where is any iota of evidence. that I used even ₹1 of Kingfisher Airlines funds. to acquire overseas properties? There is no such allegation. So what are CBI and ED concluding then? They have won cases in India. They've concluded certain things.

and that's why they're fighting on some grounds. Why would. UK courts. even entertain, if there's no proof? - Why would anybody have anything? - UK Court entertained what? Indian CBI authorities. action against you or case against you. If there's no proof. The job of the UK Court. is only to establish and determine whether there is a. prima facie case.

to be sent to trial. Right? The UK court has not adjudicated and said. you are either guilty or innocent. The job for UK extradition judge. is to say is. what CBI is saying is fine. Is there a case to be tried in front of a judge? That's the limit. They have. determined that. Now it is from the CBI and me to fight it out.

Okay. In the court. They provide their evidence. I will provide my evidence. Okay, so that's as far as the. you get caught is concerned. Got it. So it has just gone to the trial. So... absolutely. okay. What is the allegation? I misrepresented. the Kingfisher financials. Yeah. Right? To the IDBI. Yeah. I colluded with the senior management. Of the idea to.

get the loan. Right? And then. I misused the proceeds of that. 900 crore loan. Those are the three allegations. The allegation. sub-allegation about. Formula One team sponsorship. I responded to you earlier. The formula One team sent back. Ten million pounds.

to Kingfisher Airlines to help it. Alright? They brought in. Royal Challengers Bangalore as a cricket team. That was the sponsorship money. Paid. Right? For the umpire's uniform. Where it said Fly Kingfisher. It was a pure. for advertising, of course. The CBI says it was misuse of funds. Fair enough everybody's entitled to their.

opinion. But when the case is right before a judge. it is the judge who will decide. who's right, who's wrong. Whether this tantamounts to siphoning or diversion. or improper use. In terms of the. collusion. Right? There is not an iota of proof. Not an iota of proof. I met. Chairman Agarwal. twice.

And two meetings along with four other Executive Directors. of IDBI bank, is it at all conceivable? That I would be able to make some sort of corrupt. backhanded arrangement with them. Absolutely not. But. The loan was subsequently approved by the IDBI board. If there was something so blatantly wrong. in the sanctioned process because Kingfisher didn't meet the norms.

Right? Kingfisher's financials were weak, yes, I agree. But the. board of the IDBI bank would have. would've found out and commented upon it themselves. They approved it. Because. so the CBI are making allegations, all of which are fine. but. there is an equally robust defense against these allegations. In the same case, when it comes to IDBI. and all the other consortium of banks which gave you loan.

It is also said that. there was an independent agency. from UK. which. put out a brand valuation of 4,100 crores. On Kingfisher's brand. But in reality the brand value was only 160 crores when later was. audited by an independent valuer. and that was. the mismanagement, that was the. collusion between. you and the IDBI board and stuff.

That you sold them and you misrepresented the brand value. Which in reality was not the case. Okay so let me tell you. there was no UK independent agency. Grant Thornton. Grant Thornton. is a very very. well established accounting company. hired by me. Not by anybody else. And the other company was Brand Finance.

Both these companies gave a brand valuation. Right? I submitted the Grant Thornton brand. valuation report. Right? The bank. took it. I had to. recognize valuers. Submitted one. report which they accepted. Now.

That fraud. On my part. If they didn't want it. they said this is not worth the paper it's written on. tear it up and throw it away, I would have done so. It's all very well in hindsight to construct a case. With all sorts of frivolous allegations. And. fine! If it's got to be. in a court of law. Thrashed out. It will be.

But how was Supreme Court favoring all of these then? None of my cases are in the Supreme Court. Supreme Court ordered you to disclose all your assets on. 21st April, 2016, right? Yes duly did. And they also asked you to. pay bank. a substantial amount. to show your commitment that you're ready to pay. everything because you kept saying that you were ready to pay. Right? Did you do that? I made all the disclosures under oath.

On behalf of myself and my entire family including my children. Now, what's the case? Now, where is this heading? In your words, explain me, okay? Forget all of these things we will come back to. what happened on 25th February, which recently you did. filing a petition to Karnataka court. Yeah and let them. use the statement of account. So we'll come to that. But in your words. In simple words, summarize me...

Give me a summary of series of events what exactly happened. and why are you in trouble? If I could just ask you to do it in like next 4-5 minutes. You left the country. You didn't intend to leave the country. You were just... you just left because. There was a pre-scheduled meeting. Then. after a month, you get to know that. you've been suspended. Your passport has been suspended. 8-9 days later it gets revoked.

And since then you're stuck here. In middle of it, You get —. The extradition process gets started. Two times you get arrested. but you grant... You have been granted bail. The case gets to trial. Now, CBI, ED, the government in India, everybody finds you guilty. Nobody found me guilty. I mean that's what they're calling it, right? They're giving you names okay. Everybody has given you a tag of. let's. not use the word guilty.

The Trial hasn't taken place so question of guilt doesn't arise. So CBI, ED, multiple courts, the government, people of India, everybody calls you fugitive, fraud, crook. Bunch of different things. Anchors, news, media. everybody calls you that. Right? And you have been publicly. publicly on. through your Twitter or X. On multiple occasions, you have been saying that –Hey, I want to pay the money. I want to pay the money.

I really want banks to listen to me. And you've been very clear about it. There've been multiple attempts from your side. And. again and again authorities commenting that —. Though there has been an attempt from your side. but the effectiveness. of it. needs to be questioned. The seriousness of it needs to be questioned. Right? This is what the case is. But in. all in all in summary, people call you crook, people call you fugitive, people call you fraud.

Now explain me in summary. what is your side of story? We've gone through the whole thing but I want understand just in. short brief the way I explained out. What is the root cause for all this? Money. There is no other criminal allegation against me. It's all about money. Right? I showed you the debt recovery certificate. amount. 6203 crores.

I've shown you. the ministry of finance report. 14,100 recovered. The question to be determined now –. Is – Has the money being recovered or not? Once the money. Has been fully recovered including interest. Right? The root cause is taken care of. No, the root cause is intention. Sorry?

The root cause is intention. Root cause is not money and recovery of the money. It started like that. The root cause of your case is intention, you had the money and you still didn't pay. That is what we're fighting. That is what. everybody thinks that. You... that's why –. - There is a problem. - If I answer the question. what were the share values then and what are they at the time of recovery, you'll get your answer, the share value went up tremendously. Therefore they could recover. Two and a half times the debt.

Back in 2016, the values of all the securities barely would cover the. debt recovery certificate. So there was a huge appreciation. In the value of my shares held. So. It's fine. The root cause. and. cause or. loss to public. to the common man, Indian taxpayer,

is the money. Which has been. more than recovered. Alright, fine. I'm ready to face trial for intention. So. It's they want to convict me for bad intention. I'll fight it. When I lose I will fight it. But do you have a problem with. they calling you crook, because you've repaid the money. I'm probably.

The only crook. who's been called crook after. repaying two and a half times. But it's okay, I mean, it's part of life. You also filed a petition in Karnataka High Court, right? What's happening there? I don't know. That petition as I told you was simply to. direct the banks to provide a statement of account. Which once again I find exceptionally strange, I mean, this probably is. the only example globally well. banks do not render.

A statement of account. But if you say that you've recovered everything. And if bank provides you. the statement. Would you be open for an independent audit? Of course. Anytime. I'm open for it now. On all your financial transactions. No problem. There's nothing to hide. Zero. Nothing. Please. - There's nothing to hide? - Anybody can talk about me. Nothing. Then. If according to you the case is this clean.

Okay? And the authorities are questioning it. The media is questioning it. Do you think. you flying out of India. Just. made your case worse. Maybe did it did but I flew out on a pre-arranged commitment. With no. court directive as you seem to suggest. That I must. be there. Which. I went. to Geneva for a.

meeting. And then. You know the media furor that broke out. And. the environment. was too hot. And. too hostile. And certainly not conducive. For an immediate return. Plus. I needed to sell some securities. To overseas business partners in order to generate more money to pay these banks.

Which I've been trying to sort of. repay since 2016. Maybe not in the quantum that finally has resulted. I mean. The banks have got lucky, isn't it? Getting 4,100 crores. Because of the appreciation. of my shares. 14,000. If. I don't want to say. I don't want to comment on others. I might just focus on my own business.

It's not fair. I'm not the type of person who comments about other people. Do you think people would have still called you. like people would still call you fraud. If. I have done whatever I could. If you would have stayed in India and co-operated with banks. Listen. People would not call you fraud. Fine, so, people are abusing me. Maybe will continue to abuse me.

There's nothing I can do about it. That's why I kept quiet for nine years. Is there any proof where you requested banks. that I want to settle. Way before all of this started? Of course there is proof. Can you show me? Sure, it's part of. Supreme Court record. How do we access it? I can ask my lawyers to. give you a copy, no problem at all, easily done. Before 2016.

Yes. Absolutely. How do you want to be remembered? How do you want Vijay Mallya to be remembered? For hopefully for —. The good things that I might have done. Certainly not for. being a crook. Perfect. Alright. Okay? Thank you for doing this. You're welcome.

Thank you so much for. walking us through every little detail of. your case, your life, and what's going on. I just hope that. whichever party is right, wins. And. people see it. The way you want to deliver it. And people see through. every little thing. which. they must have fed in a bad way or wrong way. I don't know which side they will believe.

I don't know which side media will believe, I don't know which. side. the authorities will believe in. But I hope they do the right thing. So. thank you so much for walking us to every little thing. Good. Thanks for being here. Thank you.

Thank you so much for watching this episode till the end. I take these kind of episodes with. utmost responsibility. I'll see you next time. Until then keep figuring out.