TOP Harvard Scientist: These 5 Habits Are Aging You Faster | David Sinclair | FO562 Raj Shamani

There was a study from Harvard that. showed that the men who lived the. longest, they actually had 14 years. [music] of extra healthy life if they. just did five things. Don't overdrink, don't smoke, don't be overweight, don't. stress, and eat healthy. If you just do. the basics, that's already 14 extra. healthy years. >> Wow. I'm a scientist, work at Harvard. Medical School, have been there for 25. years, and my goal in life is to improve. the life of everybody on the planet, potentially treat or cure all diseases. Here's a good point that I want to make. for everybody. There are other things. aging as well besides DNA damage. X-rays.

[music] break your DNA, by the way, but. I can guarantee it's aging you every. time we go to a rock concert [music] and. we're blasting our ears. We go home with. older ears than when we went to the. concert. Tell me the ideal protocol for. a young person. >> Try to eat less than three meals a day. See if you can join a gym so you can. lift weights. If your gym has a sauna, great. And move, move, move, move. So, walk upstairs. Don't take the elevator. >> Give me specifics. What kind of other. protocols will make me better? If you're. not a young child in your [music] 20s,

three main meals a day is too much. Reduce your number of meals down to two. and you'll be good. That's been shown in. many clinical trials to have vast health. benefits. I read that you need to eat. small six small meals in order to grow. and get better. >> When you do the research, it's marketing. food companies. Breakfast is not the. most important meal of the day. That's a. serial company marketing. >> No way. >> It is. >> You were telling me about fasting. What. most people do is they say, "I'm going. to stop eating for a day and see what. happens." Then they say, "This is too. hard. I'm hungry." That's the wrong way.

to do it. The way you would do it is. don't stop eating immediately. Just have. a smaller meal each day or eat something. that's filling like a lot of vegetables. Perhaps some hot water. It's not just. healthy to drink and cleans out your. blood, but also it fills you up. You. don't feel hungry. Once you get past 3. days, what happens is remarkable. I went. from feeling a little bit hungry, a. little bit tired to my brain turned on. My body was making what are called. ketones and the brain loves them. They. fuel the brain. I was super awake. I was. also more energetic. >> Wow. How? Okay, explain from the basics.

Let's say why do we age and how every. body cell or every body organ is aging. differently. >> I have a little structure here that I. brought to show you this to explain it. So, this is a piece of DNA. Okay. And actually, I [music] have another. model to show you guys this. I have a small favor to ask you. I need. you to subscribe to our channel. The. more subscribers we have, the better and. bigger guests we can bring and provide.

you more value through these. conversations. And the full audio. experience of this show is also. available on Spotify where you can. follow us and listen to the new episodes. as well. Now, let's get into the. episode. If someone's watching you for the first. time, okay, and they have no clue who. you are and what you do. >> That's like most people watching this. >> No, no, of course. So many people know. My audience would definitely know you. Like a lot of them, right? And we're.

honored to have you here. >> Oh, thanks for having me on, Raj. >> Thank you. But tell us if someone's. watching you for the first time, what. you do and why they should listen to you. for the next hour. >> Goodness. Well, the first part's easy. What I do is I'm a scientist. Work at a. Harvard Medical School. Have been there. for 25 years. And my goal in life is to. improve the life of everybody on the. planet in a big way. Not just a little. bit, not just one disease, but my goal. is to potentially treat or cure all.

diseases, especially those that come. with old age. So I work on aging and we. are one of the leading labs to be able. to reverse that process and we've just. started human clinical trials to reverse. aging. And so I guess that sounds pretty. interesting. If if I just heard that I. might listen. Um but yeah, basically. what what I want to do today is explain. why do we age? How do we slow it down? How can we reverse it? And what's going. to happen if this clinical trial works.

in the humans? Is age reversal going to. be possible for all of us one day? >> Is it going to be possible? How far do. you think we are? >> Oh, we're so much further than I thought. we would be. So, I just turned 57, right? And uh so I'm getting I'm getting. older, but I didn't think in my lifetime. I would see the advances that we've. already made. For me, when I go to my. lab, so I open the door and there's. there's right now 40 kids doing research. and they're doing amazing things. I have.

to pinch myself that this is actually. happening right now. I'm living my my. job is in the future decades ahead of. where I thought we'd be. I used to talk. about age reversal as though it was. something that would be for the next. generation of humans in the future 22nd. century. M but we figured it out uh. about 10 years ago that we could safely. reinstall the software of cells. and they they become young again. essentially permanently until they get.

old again. And uh in the 10 years we've. managed to go from human cells to mice. to monkeys and now we've got people. multiple people now being treated with. an the world's first age reversal. technology in the eye. initially. So it it's it's happening. It's not just. theoretical. It's literally under FDA. approval being tested right now in. patients. Wow. How far have you what do. you think like at what point someone.

like me or someone who's watching can. just go. >> to some some shop or some website and be. like this is it. I want to take this or. put this and then my eight starts. getting reversed. One thing I find. interesting is just the thought that you. and I could go into my lab right now. >> Not that we would do this because we. want to be very safe, but it would be. theoretically possible for you and me to. go into my lab and inject this drug ER.

100 uh into ourselves and maybe it would. work. So, the the point I'm making is. we're not going to go do that because we. don't know how safe it is yet. We're. testing that now. >> Yeah. But it might already exist. The. ability for us to reverse the age in our. bodies. If we take ER100, this drug. stands for epigenetic reversal. We'll. talk about it later, but this drug um we. gave it to mice uh like I said, you. know, years ago, and all of their.

diseases got cured, including including. blindness. And then it worked in. monkeys. And now hopefully we'll find. out whether it it works and hopefully it. will work in humans. But it exists. And. if it works in people now this year, it's probably only a few years away from. being a drug that doctors could use. >> Wow. >> And we're already working on versions of. the drug that are not just for the eye,

but could be to treat the whole body. like we did in mice. And when you when. you do this in mice, they live longer, they'd get younger. And so I wouldn't. yet say, of course, we're all going to. live 100% longer remaining lifespan. I'd be happy with a few years just to. start with. But it's similar to the. weight loss drugs. >> from think back 10 years ago. Nobody. thought it'd be that easy to lose. weight. But then obesity in the US was. declared a disease. And we have drugs now. In fact, we have.

pills that are as good now as the. injectables. The same thing is going to happen, I. believe, with aging. >> Aging will be declared a medical. condition or a disease. That's what my. book lifespan talks about. And that. doctors will one day probably for you, you're still young. You probably won't. want to try it for another 5 to 10. years. I wouldn't rush it. But for those. people who are 80 or 90, what have they. got to lose really? If it's if it looks. safe, their body's deteriorating, they.

got diseases, aches and pains, they're. going blind. Hey, there's a lot. >> Yeah. >> a lot to gain and not a lot to lose. >> True. When you say aging, >> Yeah. >> right? >> My passport has one age, which is my. actual age. Right. >> Then. everything in my body, all my body. organs, they have different age than my. passport age than my actual age. >> That's right. And it's like every organ. has different age or like my there are.

just two ages or there like multiple. ages inside me. >> You're made up of over 20 trillion cells. and each cell has a different age. and and it's. >> so my brain, my heart, my immune system, everybody, everything is of different. age. >> Yes. And depending on how you treat your. body, it can age at different rates. If. you were to smoke and get obese and not. exercise, uh parts of your body would. age faster and be older than your actual. age. And vice versa, you can age slower. And even identical twins with the same.

DNA can be 10 years apart in their. actual biological age. >> And so you're saying even the biological. age of every organ is different. It's. not one, >> right? >> So which one's making me sicker? [laughter]. >> We'd have to analyze. I could do a blood. test and have a look or even a cheek. swab and have a look at how you're doing. over there's a clock that's in every. cell that we can read now. >> And is it possible that maybe let's say. my heart is older and my brain is.

younger? >> Absolutely. That's almost certainly. happening already. Even a baby will have. organs that are different ages. >> And is the oldest part making me sicker. the most? Uh it depends on the organ, right? If your heart is older, uh and. you're in your 20s, you're probably not. feeling anything yet. But in your 50s, you'll feel it. And 60s, you could die. from it if your heart is older. And uh. and that's one of the reasons we need to. work on aging. If you have an old heart.

or your mother does, we can target her. heart and make her heart young. >> Wow. How Okay, explain from the basics. let's say why do we age and how every. body cell or every body organ is aging. differently. >> Yeah. Well, there is a clock in every. cell. >> Uh and we used to think it was uh the. mutations, the defects in the DNA, but. actually we we learned that the DNA. itself can be rejuvenated. So the DNA.

from an old animal can be used to make a. young animal. In fact, if you were to. have children, uh, they would be your. age for the first week of conception, the first week of life, the same age as. their parents cells. But then there's a reset switch. >> So, the point is we we used to think it. was DNA and the mutations, the defects. in your DNA. It's it's almost certainly. not that. It's something else, but it's.

related to your DNA. what I've proposed. and it's not fully accepted like all. scientific theories I have to say but it. has become one of the most prominent. theories and that's it's called the. information theory of aging. >> okay. >> so what is that what is that I'm glad. you asked Raj the information theory of. aging says it's not DNA it's not the. genome it's something called the. epigenome. so the epiggenome is the control systems.

that read the DNA Okay. So, a little bit. of biology. In every cell, you've got. about 6 ft of DNA in every cell. It's a. it's it's a lot of information. >> Yeah. >> Uh and those little chemicals. I I have. a little structure here that I brought. to show you this to explain it. >> So, this is a piece of DNA. >> Okay. >> 6 ft of this. >> in every cell. >> Every cell. But it's wrapped up very. tightly microscopically. >> And if you put all your cells end to. end, it would go to the moon and back. eight times. It's a lot of chemical, but.

it's very thin and you can wrap it up. around proteins. So, it's it's compact. Each one of these uh steps in the ladder. >> is a bit of information. and uh there are four letters in DNA. A. matches with T and G matches with C. and it's double stranded. So, this looks. like a spiral staircase. >> Yeah. One strand is running up, this one's. going up, and this one's running down.

>> And the way you copy your DNA is it. splits them apart. So the stairs come. apart, and then the cell puts one uh. part of the the the stair there and. another part of the stair there. And now. you've got two stairs. And now you can. split the cell. Now you got two cells. All right? So this is DNA. M. >> and we used to think that changes to the. steps were the cause of aging. What I'm. saying is in my theory, you've got your. DNA is largely intact. In fact, if you.

take a 100-year-old cell, you can make a. young organism again, you can even make. a young mouse out of a cancer cell. It's. the DNA is not as big of a problem as he. thought. >> Okay. >> Okay. So, what's the epiggenome? The. epiggenome. are the control systems that that. package the DNA. So DNA is not just floating around six. feet. It's wrapped up tightly in little. bundles. And actually I have another. model to show you guys this.

Okay. So in this model the DNA is blue. and it's wrapped around these tennis. balls. These are proteins. So the DNA. gets packaged. But so you can see that. now the DNA which is this blue velcro is. >> it's not 6 ft. It's now much much more. tightly packaged. >> Now there's a problem once you've made. the tight package in the cell. >> How do you read the gene? How do you. read the DNA? Cuz you have to get at it.

to read it. >> So what the cell does, it says, "All. right, a gene that needs to be turned. on. Let's say a gene for making a nerve. cell. >> Let's turn that one on, but keep the. liver cell closed because you don't want. the liver to to be expressed." What it. does is it unwraps these proteins so. that. now. you'll even take them off a bit like. this. Now the cell can read that gene.

Okay, that DNA is accessible whereas. these other ones are closed. So this is. open what we call chromatin. Open. chromatin and then this over here is. closed chromatin. Gene is on in the. middle gene is off on the left. That's the epiggenome. Okay. And every cell has a slightly. different pattern of open and bundled. Open, bundle, open, bundle. There's. about 20,000 genes. Different patterns. I think of it sometimes like a piano. We.

all have the same notes. Every cell has. the same keys, but the way they're. played, if each gene is a note, the cell. plays beautiful music, but differently. for each, but it's the same instrument. in every cell. >> So, what I'm telling you is the blue, this DNA is not changing with aging. >> Your mother has the same DNA essentially. that she had when she was a baby, but. the way it's packaged changes, >> right? Genes that were once open and.

working great and making the cell. healthy, they start to get closed like. this. And genes that should stay closed. start to open up. Let's see if I can. open up this one. All right. So, let's. say this this protein flies away. >> This tennis ball. >> Yeah. >> Here we go. Now, now your your mother's. DNA has lost one of these proteins. and. a gene that is for the liver is now. coming on in her brain. And your her.

brain cells are forgetting how to be. brain cells. They're starting to be a. little bit more like liver cells. And. that's what we see. This is what we call. changes to the epiggenome. >> Okay? And another way to think of it is. epigenetic noise. Okay? When you're. young, it's perfect. When you're old, this whole thing gets unrang unraveled, tangled. It's a huge mess. >> Okay. >> So, we discovered this in and published. it in 2023 in the journal cell. It was.

13 years of work. We tested this. Do you. want to know how we tested it? >> Well, we in the first 10 years of my. lab, >> uh, we tested in in human cells and that. wasn't that difficult. >> But then we need to test it in a in an. animal. So, how do you test whether this. >> causes aging? We needed to do this in a. mouse. >> Yeah, >> like that. >> Okay, >> we need to do this in a young mouse. And. if we're right and we do this in a young.

mouse, what's going to happen to the. mouse? >> It's going to age. >> It's going to age. So, we did that. >> The way we did it was. >> we now now this gets interesting. We. distracted the proteins that control the. epiggenome. >> because they they don't just wrap the. DNA, >> okay? They actually repair DNA. So we. were creating a few cuts in the DNA. So. here's this is basically blow up of the. DNA. >> We would cut cut it. >> right through the yellow.

>> And these proteins now they say, "Oh my. goodness, we have to go repair the DNA.". So they. >> they move. They go to the broken DNA. They help repair it. They wrap it up. again. And then if all goes well, they go back to where they came from. But here's the problem. We noticed that. they don't all go back. Sometimes. sometimes they get lost. They're gone. >> So now the gene that should be wrapped. up is now exposed and the cell is.

reading the wrong gene. [snorts]. >> So we did this to a mouse. We cut the. DNA for 2 weeks when they were young. >> And then we waited cuz nothing happened. Nothing immediately happened. The mice. were happy. They're running around the. cage. Similar if you got an X-ray. X-rays break your your DNA, by the way. >> Okay. >> Do you feel anything? >> No. >> No. So, broken DNA doesn't hurt, >> but I can guarantee it's aging you. because. >> every X-ray is aging me. >> Absolutely. There's no question. We did. this to the mouse, not by X-rays, but we.

used a very precise cutting enzyme. >> And we did that for 2 weeks. A little. bit more severe than an X-ray. >> And we waited and we waited. We waited. And 10 months later, we looked at the. mice and it's now a very famous photo on. the internet. The brother and the sister. are next to each other. The brother was. not treated. Healthy, shiny coat, running around the cage, black coat. Uh.

the other one hunched back, wrinkled. skin, gray, uh not moving around, and couldn't. remember anything. in just two weeks. >> No, it took months after, but the twoe. treatment was enough to to start this. process of unraveling that it was like. dominoes led led to aging. We got aging. >> Uh and that was probably the hardest. experiment we've ever done. It was 40 40. scientists,

13 years of work, but we got the result. that the theory predicted that. unraveling the DNA leads to aging in an. animal. And the reason it took actually. uh 13 years was. a lot of scientists said an old looking. mouse is not an old mouse. >> It could be gray for other reasons. >> Yeah. So it took us about a decade to. satisfy our peers, our other scientists. who are trying to disprove us that these.

truly were old mice. So how did we do. it? We looked at their tissues. We. looked at so you know hisystologology. We cut the tissue. We looked at it. We gave it to other scientists to. analyze experts in the eye, the liver, the brain. And they sent us back the. results and they said, "This one's an. old mouse." And we said, "No, it's not. It's the same age as the other one. it's. just been accelerated. Um, we also could. use the clock. Do you remember how we. talked about we can measure your. biological age by looking at cells? We.

could do that with mice, too. And those. mice that we did this unraveling, they. were 50% older than their twins born on. the same day. >> Wow. >> But you only tried it on mice or did you. tried it on monkeys as well because. monkeys are the closest to human beings, right? Well, so here was the question. that I had about 10 years ago. >> Do we keep studying age acceleration or. do we do what I really want to do with.

my life? >> Take it away because if you can give. aging, maybe you can take it away. And. so we stopped working on age. acceleration so much that we use it as a. tool to make mice with gray hair to. study gray hair and skin aging. But at. that point I said, "All right, now let's. figure out if we can take an old. epiggenome that's all like messed up and.

maybe there's a way to get it to go back. to being young again like that. >> Can you reverse aging?" And that's. crazy. How would that be possible? Theoretically, it made no sense that it. might be possible. >> But we know that embryos get young, they. can reset. Remember I said after the. first week of age, you can go back in. time. >> So my guess, my hunch was that there's a. reset switch in the cell. We just need. to find the switch. We didn't want to. repeat what was done in 2000, early.

2000. But I do want to mention the guy's. name. I was just in in Japan, actually. Um and so he's a legend there. Uh. Professor Shina Yamanaka, he came up. with four genes. You can use more genes. You can use 10, 20 genes, but he needed at least four. genes uh to make those cells go back to. being stem cells. So we had the idea, why don't we try. just a few of them? But no one thought. to do that because the Nobel committee.

and Yamanaka said, you need all four for. it to work. I said, "Well, let's try. three or two or one. Maybe that would. help. Maybe we could go partially back. to being young, but not so much that we. get cancer and lose the identity." Now, remember, we want the cell to get their. identity back. >> Yeah. >> Not to lose it. >> Yeah. >> That was the trick. Yamaka lost the. identity. We want to do the opposite. So, how did we do that? We decided to. take away one of the genes. We took away.

a gene called CMIC. which is short we call it M for short M. and the reason we chose that that one is. that it's a cancercausing gene. Seemic. is we know causes cancer so we didn't. want that anyway. So one put three of. the Yamanaka genes into human old human. cells. OSK for short which are now legendary. genes uh for this treatment. And what he. found in the next week was that those.

cells went back about 80%. 75 80% to being young. Got their. identity back. They remembered how to be. skin cells. They grew better. They were. more robust, healthier, but they never. ever ever got to be stem cells because. we didn't have the M the Mick. >> to create the stem cells. Now, that was. in in human cells. That was in the year. 2017, right? It's a long time ago. >> Yeah. But the next question that's. really interesting that one decided to. do was what if we do this in an animal?

>> Will it heal it or will it kill it or. hurt it? >> We don't want to hurt animals, but we. wanted to test if it could help the. animal. And one decided to do the eye. >> I thought that was a crazy idea. I. thought, let's do the liver. The liver. is easy. >> But the eye, you kidding me? That's. complicated. So he figured out how to do. that. He put Actually, I have a model. here to show you. He put the genes, the. three genes inside a virus like. particle. This is like one of these.

things. It is a a capsule with a membrane with. proteins. I mean, you might have seen. pictures of this. It's like. >> any any virus. >> Yeah. >> But inside is this protein pocket. And. now you can put your OSK age reversal. genes in there. >> and you can make trillions of these in. the lab, put them in a syringe and. inject them anywhere you want. And the.

virus will infect. the cells of the body. If you put it in. the eye, it'll go into the eye cells. If. you put it into the vein, it'll go to. your liver and your lungs. And when it. gets inside the cell, it opens up and delivers the DNA. So. that's how we get DNA into cells. >> That's how we cure genetic diseases. currently. It's called an AAV. And there. are different flavors. There's ones that. scientists use for the eye, some that.

are engineered for the liver, different. flavors. We used one called AAV2, which. is designed to uh hit the retina. M. >> and one Cheng's idea, the brilliant idea. was let's see if we can make damaged. optic nerves heal again. >> M. >> why? Because all animals don't heal. their eye. In fact, if I hurt your eye, you would not regrow your optic nerve. >> Yeah. >> Same with your spine. If if you break. your back, you're not going to walk.

again. >> But very young animals, even very young. humans, can regrow their nerves. So, one. said, "If we can take them back to being. like a baby again, we'll see that the. animal can regrow the optic nerve." And. uh he texted me a result. When was it. 2018? And he sent me a photo of a nerve. The first one was dead. So, a little bit. of color, but mostly it was black. He. said, "Do do you see that?" I went, "Yeah." He goes, "Now look at this one.".

The next text was a beautiful regrown. optic nerve that regrrew within 2 weeks. back to being young and fresh again. It. it had regrown and this had never been. done before at this this level. And Wang. said, "Do you see what I see?" And I. said, "I think I see it." And he said, "What do you see?" And I said, "I see. the future." And that picture of that. that nerve is now flipped vertically and. is in on the wall of the house at home.

because that was a moment that I'll. never forget. I get tingles in my body. I'm getting them now just thinking about. that moment because that was the first. evidence that safe age reversal was. possible in mammals in complex organisms. just in the eye. But we knew it if it. worked in the eye it should work. anywhere. We didn't choose the eye. because it would work better. So you're. telling me a damaged eye, damaged optic. nerve. >> Yeah. >> She's got completely reversed and got. back to the repaired version. So it if.

this works, >> then what it possibly means is a blind. person can see again. >> Well, what I can say as a scientist is. we've cured blindness in mice. We've. taken old mice that just can't see and. then two weeks later they can see. perfectly again perfectly like a young. mouse. So it works in mice. That's a. fact. The other fact is if you have a. monkey with a damaged optic nerve, we.

can improve their vision. in some cases almost to normal what they. were before and now we're testing it in. humans. So I think theoretically. I would say most likely 80% 90% it will. work in humans because our eyes are the. same as monkeys. They're just a little. bit bigger. The same same as the monkey. eye and it worked really well in the. monkey. And we can see that those nerves. are getting younger. It's not just.

because they regrow from the damage but. we can measure their age. Remember we. can now measure the clock and the nerves. got young again. And we didn't just use damaged nerves. We tested glaucoma which is a leading. cause of blindness in India. It's very. prevalent pressure in the eye. There's. 50 million people uh globally. uh it's. one of the largest causes of blindness. and we've cured that in mice and we hope. in these studies now in people that.

we'll be able to greatly improve the. vision of glaucoma patients as well. >> and. wow that's. >> but this is just the beginning we we are. just doing the eye because it's a good. place to start it's a good place to put. a virus. >> and you did that in humans very recently. right you did the first child yeah. >> how many months ago. um a few months ago. >> Okay. And till when we have to wait for. the results or. >> well this is where I have to get a.

little bit um. uh scientific and and FDA uh. >> under the regulation. >> Yeah. FDA approved. So it's an FDA. approved study to test safety. >> Mhm. And so the the ultimate outcome of this. study in terms of the FDA is did it hurt. the patient? Did it spread out the eye? Like did it go anywhere else? Did it. cause inflammation? Did it cause a. cancer? That's why we're doing this.

study and we're starting very carefully. The first patient that we saw dosed um. just got a very little dose, not a big. one, and we just waited for a month to. see what would happen. So now more. people have been treated and we're. waiting. But I know what you're asking. Will we know this year if it works and I. could say between friends? Possibly. because every patient is their own. experiment.

>> You measure their eyesight before. treatment, during. >> and actually for another 5 years. So, if. it works, even though it's a small. number of patients, it's only 18 people, we might see if it's working this year. Wow. I I hope it works out for everyone. because this is going to be. this is this is going to be one of the. biggest. this is going to make one of the biggest. impacts in human life like all around.

the world because we could treat. diseases. If we could just make people. more healthy, like they don't have to. suffer through all the things, all the. things while they're even alive. Forget. like coming back from 90 to being 50. again, but at 90, can they at least feel. and live like a a 40year-old, that is. going to be incredible, right? >> Yeah. It's it's really worth pondering. because we have to throw away our our. misconceptions. The first misconception. is that we're treating aging.

>> and that we're just trying to make frail. people look better or feel better. This, if it works, could be a treatment for. almost every disease known to humans. M. >> we can improve in my lab multiple. scerosis, wound healing, brain aging, so. memory loss, uh the kidney, the heart, the muscles, liver. There's no part of. the body that could not theoretically be.

improved, treated, healed, repaired, rejuvenated, restored by this. technology. It's not just aging. It's. all diseases. Even young children if. they hurt themselves and they need to. rejuvenate and and fix something that. the body doesn't normally heal. Yes, lizards can regrow parts of their body. and salamanders can regrow a whole arm. Maybe we can do that for ourselves one. day too. >> But but explain while you're explaining.

I've written like few words and I want. to go deeper in that. Okay. Like the. most most basic thing is he said this is. there in every human being right and if. you cut these yellow part that's like. damaging and we are damaging uh we are. damaging on an everyday basis we're. damaging 20 things maybe 20,000 things. on an everyday basis in our life right. >> uh every day you will get at least 20. trillion of those breaks in your body. >> so these.

the DNA is breaking in my body. >> Oh yes. >> Right. And that is causing the aging. Why is it breaking? >> Oh well. >> So why why am I getting older and why. you versus me? Let's say there are two. different people, right? >> In your body this this breakdown is. happening probably let's say in a. different way and in mine is happening. faster or slower or I don't know why why. is we all are born same right?

>> Well partly it's depends on our parents. If our parents had good genes to repair. DNA and stop breaking, um, then we have. an advantage. People that live a long. time have less broken DNA and have a. much more stable epiggenome, so less. epigenetic noise. And whales that live. the longest of all mammals, they have. low DNA damage and their epiggenome, those structures stay stable. Um, but. between you and me, let's say, um, let's.

say I'm aging faster than you, okay? Let's let's say we're twins, right? Okay. >> And I I obviously don't look as young as. you. So, what what what's wrong with my. body? >> Well, one thing that might be different. is that the the enzymes that mop up free. radicals. Um, so I'm drinking coffee, right? It's it's got free radicals is. coffee has quite a lot of hydrogen. peroxide in it. And you're drinking, let's say, you're drinking coffee. I. think that's water. >> Mhm. >> But maybe I don't repair my broken DNA. faster as fast as you do. And that means.

that these these proteins that hold the. DNA in place, uh, they don't get. distracted as quickly. Um, the other. thing might happen is that the these. these proteins that go away in your. body, maybe they find their way back. better than in my body for whatever. reason. There's a better signal to come. back. But why why mine are probably. better and yours are not? >> Well, there's lots of different reasons. Uh, one is that um there are signals.

that tell proteins where to go in the. cell. >> I'll give you an example. Okay, this is a tennis ball, but let's. imagine it's a protein. >> Proteins get modified. They don't just. get folded. Okay, there's a folded amino. acid sequence. All of our proteins get modified uh and. I've got this little thing. This. represents. what we call acetilation. It's. >> okay. >> Uh.

it gets attached to typically an amino. acid called lysine. >> And now that this has been acetilated, it will behave differently. It will be. active and will help repair the DNA and. it will go and fold up the DNA better. because it's got this attached. And. maybe your body puts these on more. frequently than my body does to make. this protein more active. >> That's a difference between people. >> But yeah, go ahead. You were saying. something. >> Well, there's another big difference. that is not.

>> genetic. >> It's actually as important as the. genetic parent component. And this is. the good news. The way you live your life impacts the. pace of aging and how much DNA damage. there is. Right? So, if you don't get a. lot of X-rays, you don't fly a lot and. get hit by cosmic rays, um you don't get. CT scans. Okay, that's one thing that. would give you an advantage. If you eat. a lot of colored plants, uh I call this. xenormis, but basically Serena uh says.

eat colored food, eat the rainbow. Colored food has chemicals that help. repair DNA, that help proteins. bind up the epiggenome. And these. chemicals we get from our food supply. Now, if we eat a a regular lettuce from. California that's that's not or I don't. know where in India they grow terrible. food, but if it's just grown mass market. and it's not colorful like a what you. call iceberg lettuce,

>> that's not going to have a lot of these. what we call polyphenol chemicals. But if you eat gee, it would be the. best. So green tea matcha is full with. it. Um there's a bit in red wine, but we. don't like alcohol anymore. Another good. one would be dark green leafy. vegetables. Um spinach. Anything that's got a lot of color will. have chemicals that like bell peppers. and stuff that help. >> Bell peppers are great. The other thing. that helps plants become colorful is.

adversity, stress. So if you eat a great healthy. plant-based diet, not not you don't get. from from meat, by the way. So my diet. and Serena's is is plant focused for. that reason. It's healthier. And these. chemicals come from plants, not from. animals. That's an advantage that we can. all have. And then there's the usual. things, running, right? Moving, fasting. These also boost the activity of these.

proteins that help repair DNA and help. bind up the epiggenome and stabilize it. So this is some of the things my lab has. done over the last 25 years is to. connect what we live, how we live, what. we eat, how we move to this process of. aging. >> What I'll come to activities later but. before we go to colored plants, what is. there in colored plants? like why. specific. why specific very dark colored plants.

are better not the normal colored. plants. >> Okay. >> So xen. >> when I look at two plants they look same. to me like a lettuce look lettuce or a. spinach would look like a spinach. >> Yeah. >> The darker spinach will be better for. me. That's what you're trying to say. >> Yes. Yes. >> And and why. >> why so this comes to my theory called. xenormmesis. >> Okay. >> It's not just my theory. I came up with. it with a colleague of mine who I want. to mention Conrad Howitz. So in 2006 we. published this theory and the idea came.

from the observation that we couldn't. couldn't explain this observation with. current theory at the time. in the pharmaceutical world almost all. drugs are based on plant molecules. Aspirin for example a lot of the cancer. drugs these are plant originally plant. molecules. Even metformin which is for. diabetes very popular in India. It comes from a plant uh which is goat r.

it's called in Europe. So why are these. plant molecules so good for us? It makes. no sense. The plants don't care about us. do they? I don't think so. Xeno hermesis hypothesis says that when. plants need to survive too much shade or. not enough water in the case of grapes. where they dry out right they try to. survive the plants make these chemicals. many of which are colored. >> they have color not all of them but many. of them colored and they make them to.

survive these are plant stress survival. molecules polyphenols. a polyphenol if you're wondering A. phenol is a chemical ring. >> Do can you make it here? >> Yeah, sure. Anything. >> Yeah, there's a bit of chemistry lesson. >> Yeah, please. >> Uh, so phenolic a phenolic ring looks. like this. >> Okay. >> Okay. And the all stands for like an an.

O, an alcohol on there. Well, just an a. a polyphenol. Okay. So, this is a what's called a. phenolic ring. >> Mhm. >> And you can make chemicals out of this. structure. Plants make a lot of things. out of it. There's one in uh easiest one. to draw is in grapes uh called. resveratrol and it it looks like this.

These are, if you haven't done. chemistry, >> what what's at these joints here are. carbons. >> Mhm. >> Okay. And they all have a little. hydrogen on there. But basically, this. is two phenols connected by a bridge. >> Mhm. >> And this is resveratrol. Plants make this molecule, a polyphenol, phenol, two fallen phenols, >> when they want to survive, when they get. stressed. If there's not enough light,

not enough water or even infection by a. fungus, they make a lot of this, especially grapes, but most plants make. this. And when you drink red wine, you're getting a lot of this. >> If there just wasn't so much alcohol, it'd be even healthier. But you can buy. rveratrol. I've been taking resveratrol. powder every morning for the last. probably 20 years because I truly. believe that resveratrol is one of the. polyphenols that can slow down aging. Why? Because one of the proteins that. controls the epiggenome which we study.

called one gets activated by this. molecule. So when I'm eating rveratrol. in the morning, my body gets filled with. it. I eat about a gram. So it's a lot. It floats through the body, gets inside. the cell, and it makes my epigenetic. regulator more active, so I'm not going. to age so quickly is the theory. That's. why. But you can eat stressed plants, which make these molecules. >> Stressed plants. >> Stressed plants are good for you. Colored ones. Yeah. >> So, because they're stressed, they're.

trying to survive. >> And that the stuff that they're making a. little thing inside them which helps. them make which helps them survive for. longer. That is the stuff that we need. >> Mhm. >> It helps us survive as well. >> It does. And why is is a good question. Why would they make us survive better? My theory is it's because we get a. signal when our food supply is going to. run out. Our bodies will hunker down and. try to survive and be stronger. So these. chemicals signal human adversity in the.

future. M. >> and by eating rveratrol every morning. I'm tricking my body into thinking that. food supply might run out. >> Big famine is coming. >> Exactly. [laughter] Famine is coming. Exactly. Yeah. >> This is I never knew that science is. going to be this interesting for me. [laughter]. Okay. So So that's why you want to eat. colored plants and that's why it's make. it's making us better. So that was the.

first part. The second is what's happening inside my. body as I sit here right now. Okay, I'm. I'm on this chair right now and this is. making me older, right? As I'm just. sitting here. >> Yes. >> Why? Like what's happening inside my. body? What's happening inside each of my. cells which is making me older? >> Well, there's a few things that are. happening. Um there are at least 12. major causes of aging. Um, I just happen. to think that what what we're talking.

about here with the epiggenome is the is. one of the primary major ones. >> Yeah. >> But some of the things that are. happening are the ends of your. chromosomes, the DNA. If this is the end. of a chromosome, >> it's getting chewed away slowly. Every. time the cell divides, it gets shorter. So, these are like fuses that get. shorter. >> Uh, that happens particularly in cells. that divide a lot like your blood cells. and your liver. That's one thing. Um, your stem cells are getting older. The. one thing though that you can't stop is.

this DNA breakage. This is happening. even if even if I put you in a lead box. at the bottom of the ocean with no. X-rays, no cosmic rays, DNA still. breaks. Why? Because during the copying. process, remember how I said DNA copies. by unzipping this down the middle. >> Cut it down the middle. Now you get two. strands. >> Yeah. As you do that to the six foot long. piece, inevitably it's going to break.

once or twice every time. It's weak. >> You can't stop it. So the process of. being alive. >> is causing DNA breaks. So you you cannot. stop that. >> But can I slow that down? >> Yes. By eating the right foods, by. exercising, by fasting. >> Okay. >> Uh by doing all those good things will. slow down that process. >> Okay. You said slowing down comes with. let's say eating colorful plants. That's. one one way of doing it. What's there in. meat? Why? Because meat has lot of.

protein. Meat has a lot of good things. A lot of people will argue that you. should start eating liver and whatever. I don't. >> Yeah, but that's not going to give you. longevity. It's going to give you, you. know, some some strength and you're. going to build muscle a bit bit faster. Not a lot faster, but a bit. But that's. not longevity. Here's one way to think. of it. There's adversity mode, right? So, the. body thinks that it's stressed. There's. this and then there's abundance mode. Lots of meat, just killed a mammoth,

lots of food, energy, fat, protein. This is this abundance mode accelerates. aging. And adversity mode, as we've. talked about, slows this down, >> protects the body. So, if you want to be. in abundance mode and grow big and be. Mr. universe. Live this lifestyle. If. you want to live a long time, be in adversity. Fast, eat plants, run. That's signals of adversity to the body.

to preserve the body. Preservation, growth. Or what you can do, what I what I think. is probably the best for especially for. someone young like you, do both. a few days a week, eat protein, work. out, be abundant, but have some. adversity, too. Sauna, running, fasting, that's also good. >> So, this applies in every every aspect. of life. If I am making myself and my. body stressed and trying to signal that.

I'm in adversity, then it's going to. help me live longer. >> Yes. Now, we haven't done a human trial, so yes is the answer to all of the. evidence in animals points to it being. true in humans as well. But if you take. a mouse and you feed it resveratrol or. you feed it uh other polyphenols, yes, it will live longer and be. healthier in general. It can be. resistant to obesity. Even we we in 2006.

we published resveratrol given to fat. mice makes them healthy as healthy and. long lived as thin mice lean mice. Um so. yes you you can eat these molecules and. get the benefits of adversity without. actually having to be hungry. But you. might say well then why do I have to. fast if just eating plants is good. enough? >> I don't think it's good enough. What we. found in my lab looking at these animals. is if you do both, if you don't eat.

three meals a day or if you're a mouse, you don't constantly eat and you take. these molecules as well in the diet, you. get double the effect. So that's why in. my lifestyle, I focus on plants, I. exercise, I try to do, you know, hot, cold as much as I can, and I'm taking. polyphenols every day. Uh, that's my. belief. It's not proven yet, but all the. science points to doing all of these.

things together. They're additive. >> Give me specifics. The way you gave me. specific of how colorful plants will. make you better. What kind of other. protocols will make me better? Will it. help me age slower? You you said. running. You said so how much running? You said sauna or cold. Like how much of. that? Like it's so many things right. now. So, this is why I restarted my. podcast. >> and this is a shameless plug for my. podcast. It's called Lifespan. >> because I get these questions every day. is what are the details. How much should.

I fast? What should I eat? >> If I'm a woman, is it different than. being a man? >> Yeah. >> So, my my podcast has a lot of that. >> Okay. >> So, if you have a little bit of time, what I know you've watched some of it, so I appreciate that. >> But we we can cover some of it today, but it's re it really takes many days of. listening to know all the details. But. there are some some general rules. Let's. start with fasting. Is that okay? >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, fasting. >> uh if you're not a young child,

>> let's say in your 20s, three main meals. a day is too much, how many meals a day do you eat? >> Three. >> Three. [laughter]. >> Do you think you could get away with. two? >> Easily. cuz you can eat the same. calories just. >> reduce the window of eating. >> That's been shown many in many clinical. trials even in humans to have vast. health benefits. >> I read that you need to eat small six. small meals in order to I mean grow and.

get better and. >> yeah who told you that. >> so much of like internet chatter just. gave me. >> it's wrong. That's old school. nutritional advice. Okay, >> that didn't understand longevity. science. >> The idea was don't stress your pancreas, have a little bit of food, snack. >> Actually, a lot of that, I hate to admit. it. When you do the research, it's. marketing food companies. Breakfast is. not the most important meal of the day.

>> That's a cereal company marketing. breakfast cereal. >> No way. >> It is. >> All my life I've believed breakfast is. In fact, I've made certain changes in. the last four or five years to make sure. that I I eat breakfast no matter what. because breakfast is going to help me do. so many things. >> Well, if you love breakfast, that's. fine, but you should have a almost no. dinner in that case. It's what you want to do is have a. period of fasting. So, no food.

>> So, you can sleep. You're not eating. while you're sleeping. >> Yeah. But if you're eating first thing. in the morning, then you'll want to. finish eating in the early afternoon so. that you get that big stretch of no. food. Why? Because it's going to do. this. It's going to turn on our. anti-aging natural. >> defenses against DNA damage and this. epigenetic change. >> If you're always fed, if your body. always has sugar and protein, >> it's going to be in abundance mode, not. adversity mode. And we know what. abundance mode does. It speeds it up.

>> What's the most important meal then? Well, it depends on the person. We have. different chrono types. Some of us like. to eat in the morning. Some like to. exercise. I'm not a morning person. I. don't like or need food in the morning. So, for me, I I've been skipping. breakfast most of my life. And my. father, who's now 87 in perfect health, same. That's the Sinclair's. But you. might love breakfast. You wake up, you're hungry, you want to eat, you want. to exercise, but you may not feel hungry. at night. So, you can choose. But I I do.

want everyone to consider that this old. idea of eating constantly through the. day and snacking is actually a marketing. ploy. >> You know, you've just you've just ruined. my belief right now, which is I. I eat very heavy breakfast and I eat. very heavy dinner. Lunch probably I'll. skip or maybe have like small thing. That's it. But. >> jeez, Raj, we're going to have to. measure your biological age. [laughter]. Now I'm worried.

>> Like the two things that you told me, these are the two things which I'm doing. very. >> Man, [clears throat] you might be 35 for. all we know. Don't don't worry. >> Don't don't tell me. >> We We can fix you. It Here's a good. point that I want to make for everybody. If you're nervous, >> and I can tell I just hit a nerve. >> Yeah. >> It's never too late. Like we have really. good protocols now to slow down aging. >> and soon to be reversing it, I believe. >> So, don't worry. It's It's never too. late. and you're very young, so you'll. be fine. I do want to stress though.

something that a lot of people don't. think about is we mentioned that we're. we're getting DNA damage all the time. >> Now, there are other things that that. can accelerate aging as well besides DNA. damage. >> Since we published our work in 2023, we. and others have shown that any major. damage to a cell can accelerate its age, not just DNA damage. For example, if you. pinched the nerves like we did for the. eye, those nerves got old very quickly. by years, just within days, they went.

years old. And that's in a mouse. So. that's like 20, 30 years in a human. I. think that every time we go to a rock. concert and we're blasting our ears, we. go home with older ears than when we. went to the concert. It makes sense, right? Because now when. you get to 60, you're losing your. hearing. Why? Because your ears have. gotten older faster than someone that. lives in the countryside. What I think. is happening is every time we stress a. cell beyond what it's capable of.

handling, these proteins that control. the epiggenome, the the genetic readers, they move around to help repair the. problem and they don't all go back to. where they came from. And so if you. could make sure that this structure here. stays stable and not unravels any time, you could live hundreds of years in. fact. And that's why whales live. hundreds of years, we think, is they. stabilize this structure whereas we. humans, we're damaging ourselves and.

they fly away. Some animals only live a. couple of years and some only for a few. days. And uh so in a mouse, if you. damage the DNA, these structures just. fall apart. They're not very strong. It's easy to to actually damage a mouse. cell. And if anyone has seen me at a. rock concert, I've got earplugs in. If. I'm walking down the street and a loud. noise, I now have my fingers in my ears. I know I look stupid, >> like, why is this guy? It's just an. ambulance, >> but I truly believe that these loud. noises do age you, particularly your.

ears. And you know what you get? If you. drink a lot of alcohol or or smoke, you. get you get cancer and other issues. >> I don't smoke or I don't drink, so. that's I'm safe there. I love that. Well, then. >> I've never tried all of that. >> Then you're probably younger than than. your actual chronological age, we call. it. So, that's good. You're doing all. those right things. Now, now we just. need to reduce your number of meals down. to two and you'll be good. >> Okay. Let's go back to fasting. Actually, we deviated. Yeah. You were.

you were telling me about fasting. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, what what I talk about on my. podcast is how to how to practice. fasting and and it not be a real. problem. What most people do is they say, "I'm. going to stop eating for a day and see. what happens.". >> Then they say, "This is too hard. I'm. hungry. I can't think. I've got brain. fog." That's the wrong way to do it. >> The way you would do it is, >> let's say you love uh dinner, >> but you want to stop eating dinner or. just eat early. >> Don't stop eating immediately. Just have.

a smaller meal each day or eat something. that's filling. A lot of vegetables. >> Yeah. >> And fill your stomach up with tea. instead if it's at night, not. caffeinated, but perhaps some hot water. Serena and I are always with water. Hot. water. We just got off a plane from. Tokyo. We were always saying, "We need. hot water. We want hot water." Cuz we're. It's not just healthy to drink and. cleans out your blood, but also it fills. you up. You don't feel hungry. So that's. one hack for fasting is to fill yourself.

up with liquids. Um, another hack is uh. to do it slowly. And then another hack. actually is just get over it. You might. feel a little bit hungry, but so what? >> It's not going to kill you. You know, I've been able to fast for I went. without a meal really for 2 and 1/2. weeks uh fairly recently. Last month I. did that. And yeah, there were times. where I thought, yeah, I should just go. to the cupboard and eat all everything. that's in there. I wanted to, but you.

your mind is very strong, right? Everybody has that power to resist going. into the fridge. It's not easy. We all. want to do it, but you have to think, do. I really want to achieve this or am I. going to give in to my animal instincts? >> That's that's one of the keys to fasting. is don't give in to that quick fix. It's. worth it. And if you fast actually for. over 3 days, then you start to get into. this new phase called chaper chaperone.

mediated autophagy. >> Have you ever heard of that? >> Never. >> All right. So, autophagy is autoagi, self-eing. >> And our cells are always eating. themselves. When there's a damaged. protein, let's say this thing unfolds um. or gets gets too many of these attached. in the wrong place, the cell can detect. it and send it to be destroyed and. recycled. Proteins will get turned into. amino acids. Amino acids rebuilt into. protein. That's autophagy.

It happens all the time, but it happens. much more when we're when we're hungry. And it happens even deeper cleansing. after 3 days of not eating. And that. will get rid of the really old crappy. proteins. So these days I try to do a. three or a 5 day fast probably once. every few months partly for autophagy. partly because it helps me drink water. >> stay the same weight and and live life. well and drink water. >> So for 3 days you drink only water and.

>> I'm definitely drinking all the time. Um. if it's a strict fast I won't eat. anything. If it I'm going for a few. weeks, I will eat some vegetables, small. amounts like a carrot, some celery, uh. but not a lot. Not a lot. Just enough. food to fill my little tummy up. But I. feel great. Actually, once you get past. 3 days, you don't feel hungry anymore. What happens is remarkable. I high have. you ever fasted? >> No. >> It's really amazing. And I can tell you.

I'm not I'm not good at fasting. And in. fact, I'm I don't have a lot of. willpower. If I can do it, most people. can do it. >> I decided to to try it. I was actually. doing it before a podcast so I could say. on the podcast. I I did it. >> After the third day, something. remarkable happened. I went from feeling. a little bit hungry, a little bit tired. to wow, my brain turned on. My my body. was making what are called ketones. And. the brain loves them. They fuel the.

brain. So I was super awake. was like. taking. a few shots of caffeine. I was also more. energetic. I wasn't tired at all. I woke. up every morning. I was feeling great. And so I I love that feeling. So when I. fast, I'm actually looking forward to. getting into that state again. But most. people don't get there after the second. day. They're like, I can't do this. anymore. Or, you know, I'm going out to. dinner. >> I have to eat with my friends. That is.

that's also the hardest problem with. fasting is we're social animals. >> I do find that. >> and when I'm with Serena traveling uh. she's a trained chef actually and so we. we do like to eat really well. Every. time we go to a new city we eat one of. the top restaurants but when I come home. that's my recovery fasting period. Um. and and the cleanout autophagy process. Yeah. You know in India the in lot of in. India lot of small communities and.

cultures they have a practice around. fasting and it's deep rooted. >> wisdom it's so wise they they knew it. was healthy. >> you know the problem that I've seen. perhaps not in India but in the Middle. East because there's so much food they. eat late at night after the the daily. fast but they eat so much they eat. probably twice as much as normal so that. counter acts probably any good that they. get but if you if you if you fast and. you don't overeat the I think the health.

benefits are really uh huge and there. have been studies of caloric restriction. and fasting in humans and um I think. actually the the best way to rejuvenate. yourself and feel better and even get. younger. >> it's fast. >> is to fast yeah. >> once a month. >> I would say at least once a month I I. would say every day you could skip a. meal. >> and fast for how how long like what. should be the break between. >> there's a few different versions um and.

you know again on the podcast I get into. it there's one that that is very popular. in Australia called the 52 which is uh. you fast for for uh 2 days and eat five. depends what you can do um in terms of a. daily window you try to fast for 14 if. you can do 16 hours, it's great. I try. to go for 18, but it's not that hard. If. you sleep for eight of those hours or.

seven, >> then it's really just skipping a meal. and having a late lunch, skipping. breakfast, late lunch, >> or having a late lunch and not eating. till breakfast. >> That's that is the way that I think is. the healthiest is to do it every day, not just once a month. And would you. consider a morning smoothie or a morning. protein or morning whatever a breakfast. as well? >> Yeah, but I'm not as strict as most people. >> Well, so I I've measured myself over the.

years. This is all scientific, right? So. I'm not just making stuff up um like. some people do. >> I've found that having small amounts of. food, particularly if it's not. carbohydrates, it doesn't break my fast. M. >> So I've been having with res r. resveratrol mixing it with a bit of. yogurt, vegan yogurt. Now I used to have. Greek yogurt that doesn't break my fast. If it's a little bit, it's okay. A. little bit of olive oil, that's okay. But a real smoothie, that's loads of. calories. That could be 600 calories. right there if you put a banana in. there. So that's a meal there.

>> I'm vegetarian, so I think I'm I'm not. very concerned about my meals because I. eat vegetables all the time. That's all. Only once a Once in a day, I would eat. like bread or rice and other meals, it's. just the vegetables or proteins. >> Yeah. Good. Now, I'm going to get a lot. of people hating on me because people. love the carnivore diet. I just want to. say carnivore diet can work great. It. has seemingly improved health of a lot.

of people, lost weight. What I'm saying. though is long-term by the time you're. 90, I think that it's not as beneficial. as a vegetarian or a vegan diet. If. you're going to do something, you don't. need to do it every day or every hour. Do it for a couple of days, then have a. rest, do it again. And that way, you can. get the benefits of exercise and. protein, but also this adversity, hunkering down, survival mode. I think.

that actually probably works the best. because your body gets the chance not. just to hunker down and and slow down, but gets some time to heal as well and. grow fast and fix things. >> Got it. Have you heard about water. fasting? >> Yes. >> Like 7-day water fasting actually. repairs a lot of stuff. Stuff like that. >> Yeah. Uh there's a lot of good evidence. I believe in it. Yeah. >> What does a 7-day water fasting would. do? >> What would it do? >> What would it do? Well, it it activates. this chaperone mediated autophagy CME.

It'll also activate these repair systems. probably rebuild your epiggenome. Um, it. also raises the level of a molecule. called NAD which the proteins that we. study. >> called sertuins they need NAD. So by. being hungry uh you raise your NAD. levels and these now become super. active. So, it's another hack. >> is to to get your NAD levels higher. >> What is NAD? >> I'm glad you asked. NAD is one of the.

most important molecules for life. >> There are two molecules that we cannot. survive without for 10 seconds. >> And we're full of these two chemicals. One is called ATP, which is chemical. energy. If you take cyanide, you stop. making ATP and you're dead, right? You. need ATP. The other one which is more of. a a machinery reaction chemical reaction. um mediator is called NAD.

NAD the full name if listeners want to. know it nicotinomide which is vitamin B3. fused to adinine actually part of DNA. >> ducleotide. anyway NAD you don't need to remember. the full name. >> but NAD is in our bodies and when we. exercise or if we're fasting we do get. more of it so for the last 10 years I've. been working with teams to test if. boosting NAD levels in humans gives.

health benefits. >> as a theory would predict it should use. these proteins to repair DNA and do. other cool stuff. >> and the answer is yes we've published. well my colleagues have published and. I've been fortunate to be part of that. group. number of Harvard studies people could. check them out they're online. raising NAD levels reduces blood. pressure lipids cholesterol. um and what was the latest.

um oh it's not published yet but there. are some benefits to cognition as well. but this molecule u NAD is being tested. around the world in different studies. Alzheimer's kidney disease heart failure. and those studies are just finishing up. this year so that's another reason why. I'm optimistic that something big is. going to happen this year so if what. what I've said just to summarize is. we've got ER100 to reverse aging but. we've also got this other molecule. >> which we called MIB626 which boosts NAD.

which can slow aging and slowing aging. is important until we get the age. reversal worked out. >> And this is the supplement or this is. the thing that you were telling me that. you take after the long flight and. >> exactly so well we don't take NAD. because NAD is a big molecule. >> You know I told you all the components. >> if you eat it it's not going to get. absorbed easily. Um so we take a piece.

of. NAD called NMN. >> Okay. >> So this NN which is nicotenomide. monucleotide not ducleotide one. monucleotide. >> It can be swallowed. It's absorbed. We. know that it raises blood levels of NAD. by twofold in most people. Um, and that. is what I've been doing for at least 13. years in the hopes in the science that. we would see uh slower aging because of.

that. What. see we're talking about aging, we're. talking about damage, but I was reading that a child's repair. system is much better than an adults. Right. >> Sure. >> So, what's. >> what happens? Why a kid is able to. actually repair themselves with all. these damages, all the things. Let's say. if a kid doesn't fast or the kid doesn't. run or kid doesn't do anything, still. he's been or she's been able to actually.

repair uh all these damages. But I'm not. >> or like as we age, we are not. >> That's such a good question and it the. best questions are the obvious ones, >> you know, but we don't talk about them. Why is a child so good at repairing? >> Yeah. Why doesn't a child get. Alzheimer's disease? Why don't they get. heart disease? >> Yeah. >> You know why? >> Yeah. Even ch like kids have lower rates. of cancer as well. Like. >> Yeah. >> Why? Like these are same things which. happens to all of us. >> Okay. Here here's what I believe to be.

the truth. Their epigenome. which controls the genes. >> Is optimal. M. >> every cell knows what it is, what it. should do and can do it. But starting. even before birth, this process of aging. starts to happen and cells eventually. forget how to be optimal. And that's. what we see as aging. It's what we see.

as diseases of aging, but we start out optimal. And ER100, the. drug that we're testing, is designed to. get us to go back to that optimal point. where we can heal pretty much anything. >> So, as I'm getting older, these things. in my body are forgetting and they. because they're too many. >> So, they don't know where to go. What. was the original place to go? Is that. >> Yes. They your cells are forgetting.

which which piano keys to play or which. genes to turn on because these these are. the these are the piano players. >> Yeah. >> They're getting lost and they're not. hitting the right keys anymore. And the. the beautiful music of our youth. >> becomes a terrible noise, a cacophony of. terrible music. >> But then the question is, can you play. it again beautifully and heal like a. baby again? See and this is there in. every organ right? So every organ is. like now operating in a different.

system. Can I find out which organ or. which specific place where they are. damaging more. >> in your body? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. We can read it. We can see. >> like specifically you can find out. whether my heart is older or my brain is. older or my immune system. I don't know. >> Yeah. >> What all is possible and what all is not. possible. For sure, we could do what we. do to the mice, to you, but it would. just require a sample. If you give me a. tissue sample, I can tell you how old.

your tissue is. Now, that's easy. I can. take your skin from your mouth, I can. take your blood. Taking your heart. tissue is a little harder. But you from. a cheek swab, we've actually found and. it's been published that using a test. that we developed partially in my lab, the signature of the cells in your cheek. also have a signature of how well your. heart is aging or not. It's crazy, right? >> Yeah. >> I don't. >> why. >> we don't we don't know. But there is. that signature of different organs.

in the mouth. And it might be because. there's a memory of how you've been. living. Right? If you've been fasting. your whole life, which you haven't. >> Mhm. >> Your cheek cells would tell you. We have. a memory of that. If you've been. smoking, you haven't. Thank God. There. is a memory of smoking in every one of. these cells that we measure. And. actually, my friend Steve Horvath, who. invented this clock, uh he said that the. clock is much more accurate than.

people's memory of smoking. Uh I think most people are in denial but. anyway that's a that's that's an aside. We can there are surrogates for. different tissues in the mouth. So I. what I think will happen in the future. is you'll give a sample of your cheek or. your blood to your doctor and you get. back a a picture of yourself saying this. part of your body is old, this part is. young. We need to target this part. >> Interesting. Wow. Pretty fascinating.

And if I get to know let's my heart is. old. Okay. And it's it it has aged. >> Yeah. >> Is it because of some disease which is. why it's aging or is it because it's. aging that's why I'm getting a lot of. diseases. >> It's mostly the second one that because. you're aging you get diseases. And if we. can reverse the age of that diseased. tissue the disease goes away. We know. this from studies in my lab and others. If you give a mouse Alzheimer's disease,

dementia, and you make the brain young, the disease goes away. The body can cure. Alzheimer's. if it's young. That's why young people. don't get Alzheimer's. We have to think. about that, right? >> But yes, the the answer would be we. think that the reason that organs get. diseases. is because they get old. But you are. right also that diseases can accelerate. aging. If you genetically have a problem. with your heart, it can age faster. And.

some people have diseases that. accelerate aging in all tissues. Have. you heard of progeria? >> No. >> There are progeria diseases which. accelerate aging in essentially the. whole body of the of the child. And a. teenage kid can look 80 years old. And. we actually we made we made the same. mice in the lab. We have mice that look. old rapidly like the ones that we cut. the DNA, >> but they they're there are the same. mutation in the mouse as in the human.

patient. >> And now what we're testing is can we. reverse the age of those mice to make. them young again? And if that works, then there's hope for these children. >> Can one. one organ which is getting older in my. body can make my entire body older? or. can make all the other organs in the. body old. >> That's so fascinating. All well I. wouldn't say all but most of the tissues. and organs are talking to each other and.

one old tissue can accelerate aging in. other tissues. I'll give you a couple of. examples. One is if you implant old fat. into a a mouse. >> or maybe a rat, a rodent, >> okay, >> it will make the rest of the body old. The age spreads from this one old part. of the body in fat. And I all of us my. age in 50s, we have old fat. We can. actually stain it. There's a a color. We.

can stain it. Your fat is probably light. blue. Uh I don't know. Let's imagine a light. blue. No, that that's that's more like. that's that's like my fat. A 90-year-old. would be super dark blue like this. velcro. Okay. >> Almost black. >> So we can measure that. Anyway, that. those cells are secretreting. inflammation molecules called. inflammatory cytoines and they age the. rest of the body. Another the second example I want to.

give you is if you accelerate aging of. part of the brain called the. hypothalamus which is at the base here. That's a part of the brain that. communicates to the body with lots of. different molecules, hormones. If you accelerate the aging of that. tissue, the body gets older. But here's. the cool thing. If you keep it young, it makes the whole mouse young and the. mouse lives longer. >> And how do I keep them? Yeah. Adversity. >> Well, yeah. Like I said, don't eat as much, exercise, all that. I.

think that polyphenols are a very good. way to keep your brain young. The other. thing that I do, which I don't talk. about a lot, so let let's talk about it. now. >> Okay. >> Between friends, no one's no one else is. listening, right? um the blood flow by the time you get to. my age, there's always a loss of blood. vessels. >> Of course, you know, I've got an aorta. that's still flowing well or I'd be. dead. And I measure it all the time. here. I get it. Not all the time, but. every few years I measure this with an. ultrasound. My corroted.

>> But what we forget is that all the. tissues are filled with microscopic. capillaries. >> or capillaries as we say in Australia. >> Yeah. those become less numerous as we get. older. So, you can think when we're. young, blood's flowing easily, but when. we're older, it's pushing it hard. through. There's not a lot of gaps. It's. one of the reasons we're not fit when. we're older, the blood just can't get. through. And if you are obese, one of. the things that I do besides try to.

exercise aerobically, which I should do. a lot more of, but I'm on plane a lot of. the time. The other thing that I do is I. take a small dose of uh a erectile. dysfunction drug. I won't say the name, but you know what. I'm talking about, right? >> ED. I'm not taking it because I have. problems with erectile. >> dysfunction. >> with erections. I don't have any. dysfunction, >> but it does open up blood vessels. Certainly, it makes them more flexible.

and you get better blood flow. It's the. reason that it works down there, but it. doesn't just work the blood vessels. >> Yeah. And allowing my tissues to be. filled with more oxygen. And the reason. I mention that is that a lot of the. problems in the brain especially are. caused by a lack of blood flow. >> Do you think tracking blood flow can. actually be helpful for anybody? >> Yes. >> The brain blood flow. Well, if you can. track it, it's not easy, >> but yes, I think uh I I've had it done.

with an MRI. You can measure that. Um I. think if it was available, it would be. worth doing. It's very important to maintain healthy. blood flow. And one of the things that I. attribute my father's health, mental. health, is that he's done everything he. can to maintain healthy cardiovascular. system. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. So the the friend I was. talking you talking about the. entrepreneur friend in India who's. trying to solve this. >> Yeah. >> Right. I ended up meeting him and he's.

he's he's built this device called. Temple. which is now they're trying to actually. measure the brain blood flow. >> That would be very useful. I would love. to try that. And we could even see if. fasting helps and polyphenols help. >> ED drugs should help. Yes. But all of. that's that's great. And uh we could see. if using this Temple device. Yeah. >> Temple. Yeah. >> If if we're brain aging faster or not.

because it's it's a good indicator. >> That's the whole bet, right? You know, and you know, it's fascinating like. every time I do these exercises which. you were telling me right now on the. device on the app, I can see my brain. blood flow going up. So every time I'm. in sauna or every time I'm doing the I'm. I'm running like like crazily that it. just grows. It just goes up. And then. when I'm laying down, I'm doing my. breath work, I'm lying, I'm doing. nothing. And it just. >> like it's. >> you can see all the things that you were. talking about, you can see your brain.

blood flow actually increasing. >> Amazing. No, that that'd be very helpful. cuz like I said, right now it's. expensive. MRI, not. >> most people can't do that or afford it, >> but if there was a cheap way to measure. it, I I'd walk around with it all the. time. >> We were when we were talking about this, you were also telling me about entropy. >> Yes. >> And why what is entropy? like tell me. and why is it becoming such an important. conversation all around the world? >> Well, the there's different types of. entropy. Um. >> what is entropy?

>> Well, people even disagree on what. entropy is. Um. >> at its fundamental level, it it's. information. >> Um but what most people teach it in. college is that it is disorder and order. and and the more entropy, the more. disorder. though the if real. professionals disagree with that. description. Okay, it's the fun fun. fundamental it's information and. informationational noise. But the the. reason that's important in my field u in. many fields including AI but in my field.

this is ordered a young cell is ordered. and has pristine information right all. the information is there. now we're doing some aging right now. we're now we're 57 years old. unfortunately. this is loss of information it doesn't. remember how to be like it was when it. was. This is increased entropy is disorder. Okay. A loss of information.

But the question that I had in 2014. was, is there a backup copy of this. information? Is it possible to reverse. entropy? Of course, it requires energy. You don't. just [clears throat]. >> circumvent the second law of. thermodynamics for free, but we can eat. we can get energy and maybe there's a. system a memory of how the cell was put. together the DNA wrapped up from 30 40.

or in my case 50 years ago and that was. one Cheng's PhD thesis can he find a way. to get this to go back is there a memory. of that. >> and I think we found it that it exists. there's a backup copy of the original. state of the cell. >> where now that's that's the question. that we're trying to answer in my lab. right Now, where is that information. stored? >> But every piece of information from 30, 40, 50 years is stored. It's somewhere. there, >> we believe. So, it's new biology. We're.

looking at it. We think we've found. evidence that there's new structures on. this original molecule that tells the. cell, this gene should be wrapped up tightly, and this other one should be opened up. like when we were young. And that's. sitting in every old person. So now when. I see an old person who's frail, can't. cross the street, well, I don't see an. old person. I just see someone that. needs to be reset.

>> Someone just who's who's forgotten how. to be young again? >> Yes. But inside is a young person just. needs to be switched on again. >> Can you do that? Can you switch it on? >> We do it in my lab every day. >> And if someone's been switched on for a. long time, is it bad for them then? >> We don't think so. That's why the FDA uh. gave us permission. We did a lot of. safety studies in the monkeys and in the. mice for years. We looked at this. We. haven't seen any negative issues so far. Cross your fingers. We we have to be.

very careful because we are playing with. very strong technology, powerful. technology. >> But we wouldn't have started the. clinical trial if we thought there was. any risk to the patient. >> Um I'll give you an example. We've. published that if you turn on those. three genes in the eye at high levels, not just for 2 weeks, 3 weeks, um we did. it for 6 weeks. If you if you leave it. on for a year, >> even up to 21 months,

there's no negative effects. In fact, the longer you leave it on in the eye, the better the effect. The vision gets. better and better and better. And here's. here's the thing that I love in that. paper that we published on glaucoma. If you turn it off, and we have ability. to turn it on and off, right? We. actually just give the patient a pill, it turns it on, they stop taking the. pill, turns it off. It's the world's. first regulatable gene therapy, by the. way. But we did this in mice. We we turn. it on, cured or at least improved.

vision, turn it off. Okay? What happens? The disease comes back or aging happens. They lose their vision. Now for the. second time, now we do a cool. experiment. We turn on the genes again. What do you think happened? You show posit. You You saw positive. results. >> We can do it multiple times. Now I would. have wanted to turn it on three, four, five times, but the mice got old and.

they died. But they died with very good. eyesight. So what this tells me is that. this can be turned on many times. So. imagine a future where we have these. genes in our body that we can turn on. with a pill. We just take a pill for a. few weeks every few years and we just go. back in time. That would be so cool. [laughter] That. would be so amazing. But essentially. you're telling me that. most of the old people are not old.

They've just forgotten that they are. young person inside and you just need to. switch on that thing. Does that mean for. every part like even for let's say you. said spine. >> right spine is very difficult to do that. do you do you. >> because spine degeneration. >> is one of the biggest problems in the. world right now because we all are. sitting like I have it. >> oh you do oh no. >> it's like my my L4 L5 S1 is just. >> it's gone. >> there was a recent study that came um. out of China actually but and it was.

done very well they. injected these three Yamanaka. age restoration genes into a joint. >> of an animal. Um, it was a mouse that. had osteoarthritis. >> Okay. >> Right. I think it was the leg. It wasn't. the spine, but still. >> Yeah, >> it's a good model. The uh cartilage. regrrew. So, I'm excited about testing. this in human patients, back injury,

sports injury, or just old age wearing. out. >> Wouldn't that be good? Instead of. putting stem cells in there to try and. fix a little bit, >> we just give you a young new joint, it. grows again. >> True. But with with your thing, >> Yeah. >> can those pills can that switch it on my. degeneration and stop that as well? Well, I I would be optimistic given this. study that we've just talked about, we'd. have to test it. So, the way we would do. it.

theoretically, >> um, we'd need FDA approval, but we could take ER 100 and put it into. your spine. Um, and then we would give you the the. pill and we would do an MRI and see if. your spine regrow. I mean that's what we're doing with the. eye right now. >> If it works in the eye, >> it's going to start. >> We should talk. [laughter]. >> Absolutely. You tell me when the eye.

thing starts. >> Okay. Another thing is. about immune system. Yeah. People who. have weak immune system, they age. faster. And what's there? Is it because I'm doing all the bad. things that's why my immunity is weak or. my immunity is weak and that's why I'm. like what's the correlation? >> There are a few possibilities. is it's. not fully agreed upon by scientists but. one is the immune system can be.

overactive and secrete inflammation. factors and having a lot of inflammation. uh like kil 61 beta. >> these can accelerate aging because. inflammation is just bad overall. >> we know that. >> the other thing that can happen is if. your immune system is not very active. um it's the opposite can actually not. destroy old cells. So the old some old cells like the blue. ones in my fat, they're called.

scinsesscent cells. >> Okay? >> Have you heard of scinesscent cells? >> These are some people call them zombie. cells. >> Okay? >> The reason they're called zombie cells. is when cells divide, they're young, they're healthy, but when they get. really old, either because their. epigenome is unraveled and they're. they're confused or the ends of their. DNA gets short too short, they run out. Then the cell has a signal stop. dividing. Then they just become a. useless zombie cell. Actually, they're.

worse than useless. They start putting. out inflammation factors. It's called. SASP. Anyway, it's it's well known. >> Um, and we know that if you put. scinsesscent cells into the fat, like I. was saying before, it makes you age. faster and your immune system is. clearing out these scinesscent cells. Um. and in fact there are companies now. working to give vaccines that will help. the body kill them. U but that might be. another reason why if your body's not.

good at killing these scessent cells. then you would age faster. >> Coming back to the aging part right do. you when you were explaining me about. immune system and going these things. >> Yeah. Right. I had this very basic. question [laughter]. which is what's what determines whether. in my future I'm going to age faster or. slower. Is it the pace of my aging? Is. it my current scenario? What is there in.

my body right now already? Or is it my. psychological or physiological. resistance. >> that I'm fighting? My whole body is. fighting towards that aging and all. these things. What is the biggest. determin like determiner or what is the. biggest contributor? The biggest contributor to your rate of. aging is. your environment and how you live your. life. Um it's it's debated somewhere. between 80 80 to 50% of your future.

health and your rate of aging is. how you live. how you live and and how. your body composition, right? If you're. lean in good shape with lots of. strength, you're going to age probably. age slower than someone who has let. themselves gain weight and sit around. But some of it between 20 and 50% is. you're just born with that. There's not. much you can do about that part. That's. what you get from your parents. But the.

good news is at least half maybe more we. can change that and we can slow it down. by living the right life. Now some. changes take decades right taking. resveratrol you're not going to suddenly. get younger tomorrow. >> Yeah. >> Despite what some cosmetic companies say. so there's long-term things and uh you. have to have some faith. >> Mhm. >> Uh but some things are are quite u. quick. You see them quickly. So I. switched to a vegan diet when I met. Serena. Um, it's about 5 years ago. I.

started g I gave up I gave up wine. I. gave up most meat and uh and didn't eat. as much calories and I noticed within. really within days I felt better and. then I did my blood work again and after. a month my inflammation levels went way. down and I was healthy already. Um, there's an inflammation marker that. everybody should get measured called. CRP. >> Okay. what a C reactive protein. Doctors. usually measure it as a as a predictor.

of heart disease, but it's a good. measure of overall inflammation. And my. CRP levels went way down. The lower the. better actually with this molecule. And. that was quite a. a a quick effect. Um it didn't take. decades to see the benefits. >> So we we spoke about in terms of. benefits and changing your lifestyle. We. spoke about fasting. >> Yeah. And we were speaking about. exercise but then we dwelt into other. things. So in exercise the running part.

is better or the strength training is. better. >> Oh gee. Well I would say both. Unfortunately. there isn't one that's better. They do. different things. But I would say if I. could only do one thing for health it. would be aerobic exercise. It would be. losing my breath for 10 minutes three. times a week minimum. >> How much do you do? very little. Let's just not go there. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Well, I I I can sympathize because um it.

it is tough when you're as busy as you. are. It's hard to fit it in. >> I do once a week for sure. >> Oh, good. You do lose your breath. You're. >> I lose my breath at least once a week, but I lift weights or at least do some. of that for like. >> two to three times in a week. >> Good. Well, lifting weights is important for other. reasons. It's not going to massively. change your blood flow, >> but it is going to help you with a few. things. Strength, which is super. important even at your age for your.

back, right? And limbs. Most people my. age have a shoulder issue. >> Yeah. >> Right. Um, and if you're older than me, let's say you're in your 70s or 80s, >> if you don't have muscle strength, you. can fall. You can break bones. You can. even die from falling. So, you do want. muscles. But the at your age, if you're. in your 20s and 30s, the biggest effect. besides looking better is that you'll. have um better metabolism. You'll be. burning more energy so you can eat a.

little bit more, enjoy life a little bit. more. Um but also it's was very good for. maintaining hormone levels. >> You were when you were talking about. improving brain blood flow and you were. talking about the supplement. >> Yeah. >> Right. Which you would take which will. expand your vessels, right? Do you think. L arginine helps in that? >> I I don't know. People take L arginine. for making their for for improving the. vascularity in the blood. >> Yeah, I I don't off the top of my head.

know how that works. It's it's an amino. acid. It may be involved in uh the. production of nitric oxide which is how. the dysfun erectile dysfunction drugs. work. Uh without this gas, it's actually. it's interesting. It's a gas that's. produced by the what are called the. endothelial cells that line the blood. vessels. As you get older, you don't. make as much nitric oxide gas and you. know parts of your body fail because of. that. Um it may be that L arginine as I.

would call it um the amino acid is. helpful for the production of that gas. though you know I'm not an expert so I. have to speculate. Um. but there are other things you can do. You can take nitric oxide boosters. For. instance, beets have nitric nitric. oxide. You've heard about beets. >> Now, the I don't take that because. typically it comes with a lot of sugar. I regard sugar as like a poison. Um, occasionally I I'll eat some candy, but.

I don't eat a lot of carbs and sugar. I. try to avoid it as much as possible. >> Why everybody's just like so anti-. sugar? I understand. I understand what's. going on and I understand it's a poison. Yeah, >> absolutely. The days when I'm not taking. sugar, those days are like tremendously. better. But just like demonizing. everything around it, I feel it's like. we're doing so much unjustice. At least. once a month is fine or like once in 15. days is okay. >> Yeah. Everything in moderation. It's.

just that the world, especially the. United States food. >> I don't know, India is probably the. same. >> Everything has sugar in it. Even hidden. sugar. Even the Chinese soups that I. order, uh, I realized I thought, "Oh, healthy Chinese soups with vegetables, grams of sugar in there, the sauces.". You have to be just really careful. It's. the hidden sugars. You eating a candy. once in a while is not going to hurt. It's every day taking in all this sugar. So, why is sugar bad? There's a couple. of main reasons. One is sugar attaches.

to proteins, right? We talked about this. this protein here. This this protein and. every protein in the body can have sugar. stuck to it and that makes it old. protein. Actually just recently a few. days ago a company announced that they. found a way to remove the sugar off. proteins which is great. >> Yeah. >> One day we can get rid of it. So glucose. on the proteins called glycation. >> The problem is that a lot of proteins in. the body cannot be easily recycled. The. ones [snorts] that make up part of the. skin, right? The the collagen that's in.

the skin, you don't recycle that easily. So that when it gets sugar attached. >> is almost permanently damaged. >> So you don't want high levels of sugar. So I try to keep and you should try to. keep your sugar levels at a low level. Um because it's the high concentrations. that are bad. That's one thing. The. second is that you're you don't want to. be susceptible to diabetes and diabetes. is pretty prevalent in India and. globally. So that's why but it you're. right it is demonized. But I sometimes I.

say that it's a poison to make the point. because I'm trying to counteract the. other group of people that are making. billions of dollars off sugar. >> Yeah. >> And fructose corn syrup is up there. Uh. in America they use it in most foods. actually. Um especially the sauces. >> True. It's you know diabetes is one of. the biggest reasons why I started. getting healthier in my life because my. parents have my dad has diabetes. my.

grandmother had diabetes. It's like it. runs in my family. And I remember when I. was I think 16 or 15 probably, I went to. a clinic with my dad and I was eating a. sandwich. It's the doctor who was there. who just looked at me and he's like, "You know what? You should stop that or. else you're going to be diabetic in like. before even you turn 25 because everyone. in your family has it.". >> Oh yeah. >> And that just stuck with me. So either.

you can call that doctor a devil or or a. blessing [laughter] because. >> since that day I was like okay my only. challenge in life became that I want to. beat diabetes by 25 like I don't want to. have diabetes. >> at the age of 25 and I just kept beating. and then that's. >> I measure my sugar levels to the tea. like everything I do is just to defeat. diabetes in my life. >> What is your fasting blood sugar level. >> right now? Yeah, >> I don't remember, but it's it's way. below. >> It's okay. >> Yeah, it's it's much HB1C is also good.

>> I was going to mention that. Yeah, HBA1C. is good. >> Yeah. >> All right. >> Everything is great. Like it's it's it's. better than. >> Yeah. >> like most of the people in the world. >> I'm I'm pleased. Obviously, if you're. eating a a vegetarian diet, that's going. to help. Um, for those of listeners and. viewers who don't know what HBA1C is, >> it's worth speaking about it. HBA1C is. um when sugar gets attached to your. hemoglobin in your blood. The red in.

your blood gets sugar attached and. doctors can measure the percentage of. your hemoglobin that has sugar on it. That's your HB A1C. And the more percent. is covered in sugar means you've got. more sugar over the a period of a month. in your blood. And if you're above. seven, it's it's bad. >> Bad. Yeah. It's diabetic already. >> Diabetic. Yeah. I like mine to be around. five, 5.2. That's a healthy level for.

someone my age. I have the same problem. My family is diabetic if they don't. watch out. Um my father, my grandmother. had a stroke in her 30s. It's that bad. Uh so I have terrible genetics. So I've. had to also be very careful. >> Same. That that makes two of us. So. that's what that's so that's why I keep. my blood markers like every 3 months I'm. trying to test doing a lot of things. >> and just keeping everything in check and. that's good news you have to stay alive.

for or healthy for as long as possible. because the breakthroughs are coming. there are companies now that have. figured out how to replace a pancreas to. make insulin. >> really. >> is it there already out there. >> it's not on the market yet but they're. able to do it and I I think they had. success. >> in the clinic now. >> But my my intention and my goal is to. not have it at first place. >> ever. Yeah. >> I just live such a healthy life that at. least I can just uh you know just delay.

it for as long as I can. >> Yeah. And there will be a time in in. your lifespan where you don't ever have. to worry about getting cancer, diabetes, heart disease. We're already almost. there. You can detect cancer very early. you can prevent diabetes pretty easily. I mean just looking at the GLP-1. receptor drugs. >> and dementia is coming down rapidly. >> We are at a world especially those who. have the financial resources to spend on. all of these tests where you don't have.

to die from these diseases anymore. >> True. True. Now it's getting better and it it will. keep getting better thanks to people. like you. It will one day there'll. there'll be a time in probably next. decade where we won't worry about half. of the diseases that we talk about. today. >> Right. Right. And even in the past 12. months there have been huge. breakthroughs and about 15 new drugs on. the US market and some breakthroughs in. cancer. Pancreatic cancer is now.

treatable. It's incredible the progress. just happening now and AI is going to. speed that up. >> It's also really exciting to think about. what's happening in my lab. Remember, we. discovered this eye eye reversal about 9. 10 years ago. Since then, we've. continued to innovate. >> So, we now have the ability to swallow a. pill, give a mouse a pill, and reverse. its age and and rejuvenate it. And we're. working on getting it into humans to see.

if we can do this without an injection, just by swallowing something. >> How much of AI is going to help you? >> A lot. We've been using AI for a few. years now. One way we use it is to use a. camera to see whether an old cell has. been rejuvenated. Using a a camera, >> we can look at millions of cells and say. those cells were 90 years old and now. they're 20. That's AI. But the other. thing that's even more impressive is we.

can start with a trillion molecules, theoretical molecules like rveratrol, but. >> trillions of them. And then instead of. doing each experiment at the bench in. the lab, which would take hundreds of. years even with robots, we can do it. virtually and AI can look at a target. protein and we actually know what the. targets are that we want to reverse. aging and say which of these trillion. will reverse aging and it it's given us. a few hundred to test which we're.

testing right now. >> Interesting. And [clears throat]. now and what give me give me in basic. language simple words that if. you wouldn't be using AI how many years. it would have taken you to do exactly. what you're doing right now. >> Well I asked an AI model to estimate. this. >> Yeah. And it did all the calculations. and it said in my lab with let's say.

there's 20 people working it would have. taken 160 years and over a billion. dollars to do what we did for it cost us. about $20,000 and a few months of work. >> Wow. >> And that that was a few years ago. Now. it's probably you could do it on your. phone. It's going to get to the point. where anybody can design a drug using. their phone. We're almost there. The hard part though is taking the the. chemical that you've that's been.

designed by the AI and put that into. humans. And all of that's hundreds of. millions of dollars. Which is why. unfortunately I think these claims that. we're going to cure diseases in the next. few years is wrong cuz finding the. design of the molecule is the easy part. >> Remember we we've done this many times. in my lab. >> Yeah. >> It's making them work and testing them. That's the slow part cuz that involves. humans, the government, regulation, money. >> Yeah. Other mafias. [laughter].

>> Well, we we face a lot of competition. So, my my company, Life Biosciences, which is is leading. >> uh some of the competitors are Jeff. Bezos, Sam Holtman, uh and others. Um. they've put billions to try and uh catch. up with us. But the good news is there's. not just one winner. Yeah, >> it's a whole big industry that will come. and there are lots of diseases that can. be tackled. >> Do you think there's a farmer mafia?

>> Oh, tell me a bit more what you're thinking. >> No, I'm asking you. What do you think. when I say this? >> So, I'll tell you what I don't believe. I don't believe that farmer companies. I hear this sometimes. Farmer companies. don't want me to be successful because. it will put them out of business. M. >> everybody that I know at farmer. companies wants to help people and if. they see a new area of science like what. we're doing they'll do it too and in. fact a lot of large companies farmer.

companies are working on age reversal. now so they're jumping on it they're not. trying to stop it. are they banning together I don't think. so I think that they are competitive. but I have seen really bad tactics. against my lab against my companies from. certain pharmaceutical companies. >> Like what tactics? >> Um. doing poor science that was wrong to. invalidate patents that we had filed.

Uh and these stories get into the. newspapers and the journals. One of them. is res the rveratrol story. We published. that rveratrol activates this enzyme s. one which is true. It's all been proven. now. It's not disputed, but that one. company I'm not going to mention because. they're one of the most powerful. companies in the world put out a paper. that said Sinclair's work is totally. wrong. It invalidated they tried to. invalidate our patent.

and uh it caused a lot of problems. We I. couldn't get any money in my lab for. years. My lab dwindled down to just a. few people hanging on for dear life. I. almost was put out of business as a. scientist because a large company and. the newspapers and even the world's. leading scientific journal believed that. I was wrong. Even my university, I'm at. Harvard, right? I had a group of people. come into my office and quiz me and say, "What? What's going on here?".

Like, it was really bad. I I stayed in. bed for a week. I was so depressed. I. thought of quitting. It was rough. And. to this day, people still think that I. was wrong. But we've we've been proven. right since. But uh it that was that was. really bad tactics that they used. And. they've still not either publicly. apologized or said that they were wrong. >> And what kept you going then? >> Because what I'm doing is bigger than. me. That what I'm trying to do is to.

give everybody a healthier life. And if. I have to suffer as a consequence, I'm. prepared to do that. I'm prepared to die. for this cause. It's really that. important to me. So, having a little bit. of uh trouble in my life, that's okay. Um. I was a little bit depressed because I. felt like the world was ungrateful, but. you know, I I got out of bed, I went. back to the lab, and we just worked. harder at trying to to to test the.

theory and see if we were right. We did. turn out to be right. But what I learned. from that episode, which was 2010, um is believe in yourself, do great. science, and don't get discouraged. Just. keep going. And that's a lesson that. everybody in life should have because if. you do something important, there will. be critics. >> Yeah. >> There will be people in the media. telling you that you're not good. Um and. you will you will face problems. It's. not going to be easy. Uh but you have to.

expect it and get have a very thick skin. and not take it personally. >> True. >> Yeah. I think it was Benjamin Franklin. or some one of the founding fathers that. said that uh if you don't have enemies, you're probably not doing anything. important. >> Yeah. >> How about you? Do do you have crit. critics or. >> Of course. >> Really? >> Of course. Very very few though. >> Yeah. Good. >> Because I'm in the probably a good green. zone, >> but. >> Well, you're also a very very kind and. honest person. Uh but yeah anyone who. has has fame will attract.

>> absolutely there will be. >> thousands of people who would not like. >> you know just this part as well like. there will be people who be like hey why. did you question about that thing he was. wrong and you just listen to him and. and then they just bash me and call me. that I was a I was soft on you and then. there'll be people who would just call. me was like oh you were clueless in. front of him and then there'll be people. who will be like if I do come very well. prepared, do everything right,

understand your scientific theories as. well. And then I ask you on that then. people like oh if if it was only about. science you would have done it in some. journal why you making podcast about. like. >> no matter what you do there'll be. critics who will just you make it. advanced you make it curious you make it. dumb in all three you'll face critics so. it's okay. >> Yeah and the lesson here is just keep. doing your best be honest. >> be be authentic and you'll be okay. >> Yeah. And but the work that you're doing. I've I was I keep reading like almost.

every year it just appears some of the. other place some quote like this where. it says that anyone who is inventing. anything new gets ridiculed by people of. that generation. Oh yeah. >> Only the next generation actually you. know starts uh reaping the rewards and. they become grateful like people who. were peers and colleagues of Edison they. ridiculed him right and now because of. him we are doing all of these things and.

that's so so Edison was getting rid then. >> who are we. >> right you have to expect it and people. don't like change um they certainly. don't like. >> Are you experiencing this? Oh yeah, it's. it's been rough. The most vicious. attacks are from my scientific. colleagues. >> Um the public is generally very. supportive. It's the scientists, but it. it it's a scientist's job to criticize. other scientists. That's how science. progresses. There's nothing wrong with.

cordial. um professional, gentlemanly, a gentle person um. arguments. >> Fair. So all of these things do like do. you get stressed because of all of these. things? >> I used to. Yeah, definitely when when I. was your age because I hadn't made it. yet. I hadn't reached my goal. I hadn't. done everything I wanted to do. I'm now. at a point in life where. I've already achieved more than I.

thought I would in my lifetime. So. everything else is a bonus. Um I have. three wonderful kids. I have a wonderful. partner. Um I have a great job. I get to. have fun talking about my work. Um, and. I have really smart students who do the. hard work. They're back at the lab today. working hard on a Sunday. I, um, I don't. get stressed. And my heart rate is in. the 40s usually, at night for sure, during the day maybe 50. Um, and my. heart rate variability, which I think.

you would know, you want a high heart. rate variability, it's in the 90s, which. is like a, you know, a marathon runner. >> Yeah, it's cool. >> And I think that's because of my. practice, which is to never get. stressed. >> Nice. See, this is what we need to. promote as well. We need to get a lot of. people to go India, [laughter]. then promote the Indian wisdom, like the. Indian ancient wisdom. They figured it. out. Oh, they did the food, the relaxation,

the meditation, >> the routines there. There's so many. things which we which are yet to be. discovered by the world. >> Well, it's the world's oldest religion. as well. It's one of the oldest. cultures. >> It's it's the oldest civilization. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, of course, they figured it out. early. >> Yeah. >> We're still catching up. And actually, some of the medicines are Aurvedic. medicines. There's a lot of uh truth to. that. And we're just finding the. molecules that are working in those. those ancient medicines from the plant.

world mostly. >> True. And you're a big prop. Yeah. You. promote plants a lot. So of course you. would like that. Uh you like lot of. Indian wisdom as well. I'm sure. Okay. Tell me is we were talking about stress. Is aging partly accumulated stress? Um it is in the sense that when the. cells the body gets overloaded with. stress too much a little bit is good but. if you go too far then these processes.

that drive aging. >> happen faster. >> Um but we have to be careful not to. confuse psychological stress with. biological stress. >> Explain both. >> All right. Psychological stress we all. know we're worried. We have cortisol. levels in our body. where fight or. flight mode that is psychological stress. that will age you faster. We know that. be mostly because the hormones that come. out of your system are causing.

accelerated aging. Um that's psychological that that you. can change within minutes. Right now if. we do breathing exercises we can bring. that down. That's easy to fix. That's step one. The other is biological. stress. Now, a little bit of biological. stress is good. Remember how I said. fasting, exercise, sauna, um. >> cold plunge, >> cold plunge. Um these are going to. activate your body's defenses against.

adversity. But if you do too much, if. you uh let's say if you don't eat for so. long that you start to chew up your. muscles, that's not that's too much. stress. If you go to a rock concert, if. you uh go out in the sun and get very. sunburnt, that's going to be too much. for your cells. That's not mild stress. That's not adversity. That's serious. damage. And that's going to help this.

process of unraveling. And we know the. evidence of that. Anyone that spent. their life in the sun. >> will have experienced broken DNA from. the light. And that this process will. accelerate. And you can even see there's. a photo on the internet of a woman. I. think it's a woman anyway, a person who. got sunburnt on one side of the face. because the sun was coming through the. window of the car, the truck. And so one. half is much older than the other side. And so we know that the sun can.

accelerate skin aging. And it's the same. for the rest of the body. Too much. damage will accelerate aging. >> But shouldn't we be in the sun? That's. what everybody. >> a little bit. For sure. A little bit. Now, I'm there's debate. Some doctors. say no sun. No sun is good. I I in my. life, I like to get a little bit of sun, but not enough to feel burnt. That's. definitely too much. And I usually wear. sunscreen and a hat. But yes, um I like. natural sun. Um but be aware that any.

sun is going to accelerate aging. And at what point this small damages. becomes a permanent stress damage in my. body? >> Yeah. All right. So that's a very good. point. Let's go back to this this balls. here that I've got here. >> So what we we want is this always to. stay stable and and in this structure. >> and a little bit of damage, a little bit. of adversity, a little bit of hunger.

hunger or a sauna is not going to change. this. >> Okay. It's when it gets to a point where. this these proteins have to react and go. away. >> and fix. >> that's too much. >> Yeah. >> So rock concert or X-rays will cause. this. >> So a little bit is okay and then this is. too much because then these don't always. come back to where they come from where. they started. That's what we've seen. Um, and so actually if you if you just.

give a little bit of DNA damage, um, a. tiny bit, it doesn't cause this problem. The cells can deal with it. But if the. if there's a broken chromosome, not just. a little nick, but a broken one, that's. a very serious problem for the cell. If. it doesn't fix that chromosome, either. the cell will die or the animal will get. cancer. So you have to fix it. So that's. why it's panic for the cell. And this. comes apart. if you break a chromosome. But usually what happens with DNA damage.

is just a little bit gets broken. Half. of it gets broken here. >> Okay? >> And you can easily fix that. That's not. a big problem. >> But if your 6 ft comes apart into 3 ft. and 3 ft, that's a big problem. That's. called a double stranded DNA break. >> But how do I know like what am I doing. on an everyday basis? Because this. sounds scientific. Like how do I know. >> that what I'm doing is actually making. me better or damaging me? >> Yeah. Well, I I would go with the evidence. which is that we we know the healthy.

fasting practices from human studies. We. know the healthy sauna practices. Um so, for instance, with sauna, you can. definitely overdo it. There's. temperatures that you don't want to go. and and you you can dehydrate. But. [snorts] if if you look online, if you. go to pubmed.org, ORG you can read. papers about sauners and it's it's it. those papers will tell you that like 20. minutes three times a week is associated. with less heart disease. So my point is.

you don't need to know molecular. biology. You don't need to understand. this fully. >> In fact I don't even understand this. fully. >> So I go based on human studies what. works and what seems to work. >> Do you because you're talking about. sauna. Did you see the new thing that uh. you need to freeze your balls before. like when you're going to the when. you're going to the. >> keep them cold if you want to if you. want to procreate? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I would wrap them in. >> Oh, for sure. We know that sperm. requires cool because that's why it's.

it's the reason it's outside the body. >> And now I saw some videos where people. are keeping a cold ice pack on the head. as well. So they're keeping it on the. head, they're keeping it on the balls. and then they're saying. >> why the head? Oh, that part I don't know. about. I actually think that a bit of. stress to the hair follicles could be. good for hair. Um, I use red light to. stimulate. >> Okay. >> my uh my hair growth, but yeah, a little. bit of stress on the head is good for. you. Um,

>> but freezing the balls. You think if. someone's going to the sauna is not. putting a nice cold pack down there, then is it a problem for a long time? uh not long time, but but in the short. run, you'll make less sperm if you're. even if you wear tight pants and get hot. down there. Uh it's known that you need. to be less than body temperature to make. sperm in a in a productive way. Um at my. age, it doesn't matter, but for for men. that want to have children, yeah, I.

would think it would make sense to have. I wouldn't freeze them. That would be. worse. >> But just a cold towel down there. probably I think that makes a lot of. sense. >> Then you know when when you look at. young people because you said young men. right now. so typically from 20 to 30 it's 10 years. of. hardcore hustle, bad work timings, toxic. food, just your in financial insecurity. You're in struggle. Like you you're.

these 10 years you don't know what. you're doing. Even if you're actually. very ambitious and things are going. right for you, you don't know when. you're eating, when you're sleeping, what you're doing, and you're you're. perpetually alive. So this 10 year of. all these. bad environment according to you, like. according to aging, right? Can we. reverse this damage? We're working on it. We can in animals. and I think one day we we will be able.

to reverse it. But today if like that's. today we don't have it. So let's say if. anyone who has gone through this 10. these 10 years or is going through these. 10 years of putting themselves will this. become permanent damage and they will. never be able to reverse? >> Uh no we think that all aging is. reversible theoretically. Uh we're doing. it in the eye. We think it'll work. everywhere, but right now there's. there's nothing that really reverses. aging by more than a year or two. It's.

still early early days. >> So all these habits of 10 years, they're. actually damaging us. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's why I tell young. people, even teenagers, don't go out and. party. Don't, you know, drink so much. alcohol. Don't just eat pizza because. what you're doing now will affect the. rest of your life. >> But how But how do people stop partying? How do people stop like just working. really hard and sleeping for 4 hours? Because that's where.

Well, working hard and sleeping for 4. hours is. is uh is pretty common. I still do that. myself. It's It is hard, but it's but. it's the really bad uh habits, the. overdrinking. So, I used to drink every. day some red wine. I don't do that. anymore. I I think there are a lot of. young people that have stopped drinking. alcohol if they like like yourself. Did. you ever drink alcohol? >> No. >> Great. >> Um I did and I regret it. Smoking is the.

big one. Smoking has chemicals in it. that break DNA. So you're going to be. like that mouse that got older faster if. you smoke. >> Agree. >> Um so I would say there are some pretty. easy things to to avoid doing. Um, there. was a study from Harvard that showed. that the men who lived the longest, they. actually had 14 years of extra healthy. life if they just did five things. And. this is what I remember. It was don't. overdrink, don't smoke, don't be. overweight, uh, don't stress, and eat.

healthy. Those are what your grandmother. would tell you probably. >> If you just do the basics, >> that's already 14 extra healthy years. But how do you get rid of the part which. is no alcohol is easy, no smoking is. easy, >> no. >> no stress is such a part of your life. today. If you're young and living in a. large city like [clears throat] this, >> you're stressed about financial. insecurity. You're stressed about. >> AI taking your job. You're stressed.

about what's going to happen. You're. stressed about your health. You're. stressed about uh reversing the damage. with all the sugar and alcohol that you. have consumed over the past couple of. years. >> and you're stressed about finding the. partner, starting a family. You can't. get or probably if you have a toxic. boss, you're stressed about that as. well. >> How do you get rid of that? >> It's difficult. And I was not good at it. until I was 50. And this is when I met. Serena. What I've learned to do is to.

have faith in myself. That's the key. I was hard on myself. And you probably. are cuz you're very successful. You're. probably I I could do this better. I. should do this better. Why am I not. doing this better? Why didn't I sleep. more? Why didn't I You got to stop that. That is destructive. What I do now is, yeah, I'm concerned. that my lab could run out of money. Yeah, I'm concerned that the trial might. not work. I'm concerned that some.

newspaper will make up a story. Yes, but. I don't dwell on it. It comes to my mind. and I push it away and I tell myself. I believe in myself. I can't control. what they're doing but I can control. what I am doing and this is what I'm. going to focus on. And I am older so I. have a little bit more experience that I. know that I can do it. But I wish earlier in my life I had had. this attitude which is I believe in.

myself and I'm not going to worry. I. will figure it out. I will face trouble but I know that I'm. strong enough to get through it and I. will I will defeat whatever comes my. way. And that's how I live now. So I. don't get upset with these things. >> It's it's good to hear. It's very. difficult to practice. >> It is. >> I'm trying. >> It took me 50 years but yes try. It's so. important. Your life will be completely. different if you can master that. >> What do you think? What are the top.

three things that young person is doing. which is damaging them the most? >> Oh well um overeating number one being. obese and and is the number one. globally. >> Okay. >> Um we know that that accelerates aging. >> Um the second would be not moving. enough. We sit down too much. We play. computer games. were at a desk job. Um, and then the third would be the quality. of the food is terrible. Uh, it's easy.

and cheap to buy fast food and it's the. food is engineered to be addictive. and it's not as much fun eating, you. know, hummus or lentil curry. These are. not as exciting things. And I thought of. plants as the side dish to meat my whole. life until recently. But those are the three things if you. can uh.

>> maintain a h a healthy weight. So for me. as soon as I start to build up more than. that much on my body on my chest I know. I need to get fast and get rid of it. So. there's that. Then there's move move. Just get a standing desk, go for a walk, go for a run, get to the gym, do. something, anything. Just don't sit all. the day. So, in my office, I have a. standing desk. I'm rarely sitting the. whole day. Um, you know, my feet get a.

little bit tired, but it's it it's. great. It's very good for my my muscles, my legs are strong, and all I'm doing is. standing. And then the third one is. quality of food. Fresh food, fresh. colored food. You'll feel so great. Um, don't overcook things. I I know most. cultures including India overcook their. vegetables. Maintain it. Make it. crunchy. It's not bad. It actually. tastes better. So um cuz you're. destroying a lot of these polyphenols if. you overcook it. >> or over microwave it. Um so yeah, just.

slightly steam, slightly boil uh or eat. fresh vegetables. Salad is great. >> All day salad. I also I was in until. last to last year I was exactly like. you. I used to see vegetables as a side. thing. It was it was not the main dish. It was a side dish even though I'm. vegetarian. Ah. >> because I would kick I would eat like. overly cooked lentil soup which we call. dal in India. So I would eat that or.

like vegetables which are filled with. oil and curries and like just mixed. everything. And I always used to think. that that's healthy. I'm eating. vegetables. But. >> that's so true. Um there's there are. studies that show that vegetarianism. is pretty good for longevity. But what's. really interesting is if you break it. down into healthy vegetarian and not. healthy vegetarian, there's a big. difference. The healthy vegetarians are. way ahead of the non-healthy.

vegetarians. So just being vegetarian is. not sufficient. Give me give me. different uh uh differences between. healthy vegetarianism and not healthy. vegetarian. >> Oh well, so an unhealthy vegetarian. would eat uh French fries, chips, bread, uh and overcooked soups and and other. things. It's kind of winter food is is. is not healthy vegetarian. Healthy. vegetarian is yes salads obviously, but.

also um the legumes. So, baba ganoush uh. [sighs] hummus these things are also. full of protein and vitamins as well. Um. so a typical meal for me and for Serena. would be some fresh fruit, fresh. vegetables, maybe a bit of olive oil, balsamic. vinegar, and uh if we steam the. vegetables, it's very quick, very light. So the the asparagus would still be. crunchy, the broccoli would be crunchy.

Um, but yeah, they've if if your. vegetables start to lose the color a. lot, you've you've gone into the. unhealthy side. >> Yeah, that's a good metric. If the. original colors is no more the color, then. >> you've made it unhealthy. >> You know why? Because these chemicals, these polyphenols are the colors and. they're the health. So the the color. disappears, the health disappears. >> Interesting. >> Okay. Tell me the ideal protocol for a.

young person. >> Well, >> how many hours of sleeping? Like this is. the most basic thing, but still I want. to know. >> All right. Well, I am going to say a few. things, but the the detailed is in. lifespan my podcast. Okay. So, everyone. tune in to that for the detail, but the. cheat sheet would be. uh try to eat less than three meals a. day. >> Uh see if you can join a gym so you can. lift weights. If not, get some weights. at home. And that's pretty easy. >> If your gym has a sauna, great. If you.

can afford a sauna, get one at home and. uh move, move, move, move. So, walk. upstairs, don't take the elevator, get a. standing desk, walk to the shop. It's. these small things add up. Uh and and. monitor yourself, right? You have a ring. on. I have couple of rings on. I'm. always looking to do better. uh more more steps, lower heart rate, more heart rate variability, better. sleep. Um speaking of sleep, we haven't.

touched on that. What I've learned and Serena also taught. me is. >> it's not the number of hours that you. sleep, it's the quality. And you can. measure deep sleep. And the amount of. deep sleep you get is really what. determines the brain fog in the day and. how energetic you are. So she and I can. [clears throat] go for a week with only. a few hours sleep. And that's not a. problem for us because we are very. efficient at sleeping. We get into sleep. quickly. We dream. We get deep sleep.

And we wake up fresh even after just a. few hours. Now, we don't do a few hours. forever. We do catch up on weekends. usually. But it I do want everybody to. know that you can still have healthy. sleep as long as it's efficient. And. some of these devices like this one will. tell you your efficiency, right? And. over 90% is typical for us. >> I need the sweet dreams. >> Sweet dreams is Serena's uh we were. talking about this earlier. Sweet dreams.

is Serena's product that I take every. pretty much every night to get into deep. sleep. >> Yeah. >> And then the the protocol that you. talked about and the things that you. talked about, is it true for a. 25year-old, 45year-old, 65year-old all. or do they do it differently? Um well the exercise and the sleep um. and the diet they're universal but when. we get into the next higher level of. detail about which supplements which.

medicines. >> um then it changes over time. >> and then we then there's stem cells and. peptides and blood transfusions. There's. another level of complexity which we. talk about on my podcast. But I would say in your 20s, what we've. talked about today is a very good start. And I know that your listener. demographic is 20 to 30. So start with. the basics. Um get the those right and. then you know consider some supplements.

>> You know the ones that I take for. example resveratrol in the morning. Um. NMN in the morning for the NAD boost. >> Should young people take that? Well, I don't ever make recommendations. cuz I'm I don't know everybody's blood. work. I would say the science is strong that. taking it um can have benefits at any. age, though we haven't tested it on. people in their teens and 20s yet. So,

there's an unknown, but based on mouse. research, which we've done for the last. 15 years, it should be fine. I wanted to say though, and it's. important that everybody listening. knows, >> um, >> I measure everything, right? I I know. when something's changing. I know if. it's doing good or bad, and it's all. done under doctor's supervision. And. that's important, >> right? We don't want to just take. something and hope for the best. And we.

don't want to do it without our doctors. knowing about it. So, I would encourage. everybody to do what I do and what what. my father does and what Serena does is. we measure things and we talk to. doctors. Serena and I talk to three. different doctors every week about. things. That's a bit excessive cuz. that's our life. But I do encourage. people to not just trust what you hear. on the internet. Research it yourself. Talk to your doctor. Take one thing. See. if it works for you. Measure it. Look.

for a change. If you don't see a change, why do it? >> Fair. >> Yeah. >> Is there actually this this is a better. question. While I was asking, I just. turned my question. One supplement that. young people should never take. >> Um, >> which is. >> yes. >> specifically for people above the age of. 40 or like under 40 or under 35. People. should not take at all.

There are medicines that people my age. sometimes take for longevity. Um there's. a diabetes drug metformin which lowers. blood sugar. That one I think is. uh. extreme for someone in their 20s to be. taking. Why? Unless you have a history. like you, uh, your body is is still very. sensitive to insulin, able to deal with. a lot of metabolic changes. So, it's not.

necessary. And so, why take the risk. with a medicine? >> There's another drug that's even more. risky. >> called rapamy. Have you heard of this. drug? >> No. So, rapamy is a favorite of the. longevity field because when you feed it. to animals, different types of animals, they live longer. Um, but it also. affects the immune system. If you take. too much, it makes your immune system go. down. And, uh, that one has a lot of side.

effects if you take high doses. So that. one for me would be if you if you were. to force me to say what not to take. That to me seems too extreme and. unnecessary in young people to be trying. that because the risk is too high versus. the reward. That's my opinion. Um some may differ. Some people love um rapamy. Um even I am cautious with rapamy at my. age because it has toxicities. It.

affects the immune system. Um and I am. concerned about the long-term side. effects of this drug. Um the ones that I take like with the. reserverrol and the enem these are. natural molecules. They exist in our. food. They exist in our bodies. >> So the risk is really low and the. potential gain is. >> correct. But is there any specific. supplement which is easily available and. people are taking right now and which we. should not take? Shouldn't I sodetamine.

as a supplement that's out there? Well, the there is some scientific debate. about one particular supplement um it's. an amino acid called torine and there. was one study that gave torine to mice. and they lived I think it was 15%. longer. So I started taking torine and. didn't see much benefit to me. >> based on my blood work. >> and then a study I think it was last. year came out and found that there was. no decrease in this amino acid in older.

people and so I've stopped taking it for. that reason. So I think if if people are. taking highdose torine they should look. at the science and make a decision for. themselves. What should is there a point like where. someone could get obsessed with all. these longevity tools and protocols and. at what point it is. >> it is detrimental for your body it's. actually damaging not helping like. you're waking up certain point you're. tracking this you're tracking that.

you're doing cold plunge you're doing. sauna you're doing eating like. >> you know how you have these ninjas. >> yeah I mean there are definitely people. who. >> obsess about it I don't know if it's. overdoing it but they're obsessed for. sure. Um I'm not in that category. I'm a. scientist and I do it for a learning. exercise. I want to learn. I want to. teach. >> Um and it's also enjoyable. It's it's. like a hobby. >> So I I think that if you read up about. it, you become knowledgeable about it.

and you follow, let's say, follow me on. social media, it can become enjoyable. It's it's like a something that you do. as as a hobby. But hobbies can become. detrimental if you become obsessed. >> Yeah. >> With anything. >> Yeah. >> Right. You can collect a few cars, but. if you want to spend all your money on. cars is detrimental. Same with uh. longevity. If it is taking too much of. your salary, too much of your time, if. you're taking too many supplements at. once without testing them on yourself,

then you've gone too far. I'll tell you, for me, I have a I have a bag of. supplements that I take with me on my. travel. I've worked with these and. tested them on my body for some of them. for over 15 years and it's like a. symphony of supplements. I I I know what. I'm taking. Um. I'm at a point where I've adjusted my. life and I know what to take and I'm. happy with it. Occasionally I try. something new. Occasionally I stop.

taking something. So that I think that's. a healthy way to exist is you you do it. for fun and then. >> you know if I skip it or I forget my. supplement I'm not going to worry. If I. eat some meat I'm not going to worry. If. I have breakfast I'm not going to worry. But it's the consistency. It's I've been. taking resveratrol almost every day for. you know 15 years or more. I've missed a. few days but it's consistent. Exercise, walking, all these things. It's, you know, longevity doesn't come.

overnight. It can take decades to. appear, but you can't decide at my age, oh, I'm going to suddenly live long. Not. yet. We're working on it. But to get to. my age and have my kind of a heart rate. and heart rate variability, you do need to start, I think, decades. earlier or at least 10 years earlier. >> and optimize. >> Preferably your age. I wish that I. started at your age. I didn't really get. into it until my 30s. And in my 30s, you.

know, that was the 2000s. We didn't know. much. There was not much you could do. Now, there's so much information. It's a. wonderful time to be alive. And we can. actually, I think, have a big impact on. our future health by what we do, what we. eat, what we swallow. Um, and it's it's. fun, too. >> True. If if people are listening to it. right like whoever is listening to it. right now and feels overwhelmed by all. the information in the world by this. podcast by all the things they do in the.

world right. >> and they could just change one thing in. their life tomorrow morning which will. have drastically the biggest impact on. their aging on their life on making them. better what would be that one thing. >> right. the first thing I'm going to say is it's. not confusing. if it's presented clearly. >> and what I'm I'm building is a community. where people will learn how to live. their longest life. It's called.

lifespan. >> Yeah. >> So that's that's what I'm doing. I want. everybody to experience this, but it can. be overwhelming. So we need to explain. it simply. So I would I would start with. eating less often. and within those meals eating fresh. That's the start. >> Okay. >> And then learn from there. So much to. learn. It's really fun and you'll feel. so great. >> Perfect. Done. I have the last question.

which I ask all my guests which is. what is the cost of becoming David. Sinclair? Oh, I rarely have time for myself. I was not a I was not the father to my. children that I wanted to be. I'm trying. to make up for that. Uh, but I was often.

away and I wasn't focused on the present. and I. did not appreciate. my life and the I wasn't grateful for. the joy that I could have had in my 30s. and 40s because I was so focused on. making the impact, testing the science, getting the. molecules into people that I didn't stop. and appreciate that I had three amazing. kids and a house and a career that I.

loved. It was just go go go, always. problem solving. Uh I'm different now. But I missed probably 20 years of joy. that that. came with being David Sinclair, of. working, being obsessed to perfection. >> Thank you so much for sharing that. I. really appreciate it. Thank you. Thank. you for spending time with me, explaining me the science which was my.

nightmare today. I understand much. better. I love this ball's analogy and. this this structure. Thank you so much. for doing all of this. I really really. love our time here. Raj, I I appreciate. you having me on and this was a really. great chance to tell people about what's. typically very complicated science and I. think your questions were perfect to be. able to explain something that I rarely. have a chance to explain at this very. simple level but very interesting level. as well. >> Thank you so much. Thank you. Thanks.

>> See you know with me how I got exposed. to your work. >> There was one guest on my podcast. He. ended up talking about the stuff that. you have written in the book and then. there was another guest who also spoke. and then the third I was like what is. going on? [laughter]. >> Oh that's interesting. Yeah. >> And I was so fascinated. Thank you for. doing this. It's a pleasure to host you. >> Well no it's a pleasure to be here. Um I. love how you educate. Uh this is not a. podcast about advertising. It's not. about you know making ourselves look.

good. It's it's for your listeners to. learn. Yes. I love that. Yes. >> That's why you've been so successful. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. >> That's the whole goal. Today, we're. going to learn. As you can see, we have. the whole classroom set up here right. now. >> Yes, exactly. >> Thank you for watching this episode till. the end. We would love to know what you. liked or disliked about this episode and. which guests you would like to see on. the show. Let us know in the comments. Your feedback help us improve and make. every episode a little better. I'll see.

you next time. Until then, keep figuring. out.