The NEXT 10 Years Of Indian Education System - Ronnie Screwvala & Raj Shamani on Figuring Out 107

we look at Western cultures we look at. Western world and the startups which. have worked there right and we try to. copy that here that's terrible you know. from the maybe 100 unicorns today I. don't think the out of these hundred. more than 25 will be unicorns in the. next two to three years we should really. be cautious that they should not become. the inspiration for all your listeners. and viewers here also today because. actually that's a bad example to follow. but this gold standard that we put on. this self acclaimed back thumping chest. thumping approach because five people.

backed you at a certain valuation and. you manage that your problems are all. starting now don't you feel that some. people should not be an entrepreneur and. they're trying to become entrepreneurs. today's episode is with the India media. Mughal and the education Mughal as well. at the same time today we spoke to. Ronnie screwwala who started his journey. from the scratch on the streets in. Mumbai and turned around his life into.

something really really big he started. with building a media house then he. bought a kabaddi team and turned that. around then he started an attack company. called upgrad and now he is actually. helping every Indian learn better and. get upgraded with their skills so that. they can lead better in their life in. today's episode we've spoken about the. media education sector entrepreneurship. what young entrepreneurs make mistake. what is the difference between Venture.

funded startups and bootstrap starters. and so many more tips which you and I. everybody will be benefited from and if. you feel that this vodka is really long. then go subscribe our rajamani clips and. rajamani shorts channel to enjoy this. into small clips and learn better in. just short amount of time enjoy today's. show. tell me like were you always like this.

big dreamer and dream with your feet on. the ground or like you started as I. think I started with feet on the ground. I don't think I started with dreaming so. you're not born into riches you're not. what's the background like you mean yeah. I mean yeah a complete lower middle. class background in a place in Mumbai. called Grant Road I do remember we had a. large joint family there was no private. bedroom the toilet was at the end of the. door and I spent my first 17 years. incredible grounding in those days the.

you know the there was a lovely Cafe 786. on the ground floor which served the. best Biryani in Grant Road and the best. jalebis okay. um my two aunts and my mom used to teach. the piano so I think all my first few. girlfriends were all uh students piano. students. impress them yes I learned how to play. the piano in the process but that is. compliments to my mom and my aunts not. not the not the girlfriends but very. very fond memories and that's why I. meant that you get grounded you know.

then your expectation on life is. everything is up there and I think many. of the times when I've been set back my. introspection was now how worse can it. get at worst look at the first 17 years. of my life I was very happy then so even. if I get back to even that level how bad. can it get it allows you and empowers. you to take lots of risks and lower your. expectations in life hmm interesting. okay tell me one interesting. lesson that you learned while you were.

going through that phase or like from I. wouldn't I don't want to call that. adversity but like in the initial years. of your life like something that you. learned and that still stays with you. yeah I think well I mean I'm coining it. now I don't think it was I was not. mature enough to do then you know where. I learned. a couple of things one is you're on your. own I mean you're on your own in many. ways I mean not from a family family. ecosystem is always there but you're on. your own and the second one is. when you choose to do something you have.

to go about it with you don't have a. choice right because I think when I told. my parents that I want to do something. on my own that was a big shock for them. like it is for most 99 of the parents uh. that want to look at that but they were. like good party parents. quietly worrisomely supportive okay. um and I think. one of the things that my parents said. is look even if you finally want to do. this I just want to tell you you're on. your own because we don't have the money. for your first mistake forget about your. second mistake and your third mistake.

and I think that rang a bell with me. that says you know you're on your own. and therefore you don't have a choice. and when you have these two. non-parachutes. non-parachutes with you in life it kind. of holds you very tightly and makes. again your feet on the ground always. that's a that's a very interesting take. because you are on your own and mostly. what you do yeah but I'll tell you a. contradictory thing like with I also. grew up in like a middle class family.

and didn't have enough money for the. mistakes and stuff but my parents on the. contradictory maybe because now the. generation has changed and like so much. awareness is there they have always been. that okay we know that we don't have. enough resources but even if you fail. don't worry correct like they were so. satme I think is is all parents like I. mean all parents would be SATs I think. what they were telling me in a very. materialistic senses while our spirit. will be willing our wallet. you know they always say I'm asking this.

question because people say this right. that the money changes you success. changes you the more you achieve you. kind of become like a different person. so that's why like the belief system and. the things that you value do that change. I've seen that happen with people and. I'm not sitting here from the pulpit and. trying to lecture uh I I hope when I. have my own report card that it doesn't. reflect for me that money has changed. anything for me but I can see that it is. quite intoxicating right because it's a. thumbs up for you what is it you know.

when you see that what do you do money. attracts people thumping your back it. attracts more friends than you want it. attracts a fan club which can be which. can be disappeared the next day it makes. every Glory look non-fleeting whereas it. should be fleeting so it can go to. people's head. um and it just sounds like you're an. invulnerable and actually you are a. vulnerable at every given stage and the. world is fragile it is fragile today in. many many ways right I mean what do you. mean by The Fragile War I mean it's an.

it not just changes it is a fragile. world today I think the biggest. challenge for any person Young. or old uh aren't wanting to do something. in their own or in a job in a career or. not in a profession as a lawyer or a. doctor or whatever else has to deal with. fragility because the cons there's so. many things that are actually changing. in around you and 50 of them are not in. your control. right I mean I'm not talking about the. macro things about war in Ukraine and. two Banks collapsing or the economy go.

those are all I think we have to live. that that's going to be a way of life. but fragility today I think you know. what troubles me frankly is the fact. that almost 10 15 of the people today. are have more of a mental crisis I mean. we are now vocally talking about the. context of uh mental health right versus. Health most people would have scorned on. that yeah firstly I'm one treat somebody. who's genuinely sick you think I'm gonna. wait for you because your mind is not. working how dare your mind is not.

working go fix it but today that's real. so which means there's a so much of. fragility in the world that's creating. so much conflict in your mind uh and. there's so much information that comes. your way you know and I think my. brother-in-law told me one point there. last week he says I'm going to put that. watch on you it's going to give you a. lot of data you can do that when you ex. I said look I'm dealing with too many. data points I don't want more data right. now in my life and I don't mean data in. that sense just any more information to. process because frankly you need to you. need to chill you need to relax you need.

to get the thoughts that come flow into. your mind so to me fragility is is. things outside your control will change. things within you will control and. change they will change more sharply. than ever before if something was bad. news you'll have time to process it. maybe even avert it go back and do it I. think that's becoming less and less. before you can digest it it could be. fatal you know I am asking this to you. because I recently read about like. couple of Silicon Valley Founders who.

have all made it multi-million dollars. in last four to five years like from. zero to four five years and then there. was a study done on there like there's. 80 of them they found out majority of. them are data control freaks sure and. they track their life their time their. body not only their organization and. their productivity they track themselves. in fact so I was having a conversation. with someone about this and they said. like they track the um. the steps they do the food they eat the.

calories the intake like every little. thing about everything like they just. track everything do you think like that. kind of tracking becomes no and I can. tell you is it good or bad legacies no. right there's no judgment call it's each. one to their own sorry what would you. say I would not say no I think that's. relevant but for each time so I will. answer that question by saying if there. are 80 of them a b in Silicon Valley C. then multi-million and they've done it. between 2019 and 2022 that's a different. era will they be able to do it if it.

started in 2020 to 2025 probably not. and that's the difference between saying. I'm a data freak and therefore I mean. because there were things that had not. been in control whatever velocity they. thought that got them there 50 is. Serendipity and Tailwind if some sorts. that that gets you to a certain level. number one uh two the opportunities in. each place are also very very different. right and you can do that for a. momentary time in four or five years the. question would be can we track these.

same 80 people over the next seven years. and figure out whether how many of them. kept their wealth. if wealth is The Benchmark because. they're the other unfortunate part is. your benchmark of all of this is wealth. yeah why. where's the happiness question where's. the joy question where's the balance. quotient whereas there's so many other. questions and I'm not talking about. Nirvana I'm not talking about Buddhism. I'm not talking about I'm not talking. about meditation just the because at. some stage when you have this kind of. acuteness. you're going to need balance at some. stage.

because do you really want to test the. pulse on your body and the calories that. you burn every single day of your life. you know because at some stage the penny. is going to drop did that make me happy. that I was so you know willpower is a. very difficult thing for a lot of people. and it's great the people who have. willpower and I think at leadership you. need that kind of willpower right. because you need that willpower to get. up at 4 30 in the morning still continue. at regiment routine 99 of the people who. say I travel 10 days is the month I. can't keep my can't keep myself fit but. the people who have a willpower will.

find themselves so that's a very strong. anchor but I would say to this you there. are two three things here one is. validate that after five years and see. how many people continue to do that. second wealth is not the only Benchmark. and third is if you're so obsessed I. think you need to take a reality check. can you be obsessed for 20 years ago I. don't think so. that makes sense because it's. periodically uh relevant for some people. at some stage as much as a Sprint versus. a marathon yeah as much as 100 meters.

versus 500 meters and whatever else yeah. and you know we we overestimate when we. achieve something we tend to look back. and try to connect dots and overestimate. uh like you know we we give more. importance to certain things because we. are going through that phase it why do. we give more importance I think we give. more credit to ourselves. that's true 99 so I was I just said it. yesterday uh this is a belief there's no.

math behind it and there's no signs I. just believe that 99 of his Serendipity. like luck one percent is your. manufactured luck right yeah yeah and by. manufacturing luck I mean strong. believer in Serendipity I wouldn't put. 99 or 90 I put it at 50 okay because if. it's 99 or 90 also then you are you. might as well sit down and chill and let. the breeze blow but it may blow you in. different directions yes but if you. really want to catch Serendipity then. you need to be out there in multiple. places so that when the wind catches you.

you know when to ride on the sale and. when to walk in the trenches fair I know. that's what I'm saying if there's no. match to it I just believe that it's a. combination. but it needs to have a slightly more. balance than saying I'm around now come. hit me from the back true that makes. sense okay quick question what do you. think like what makes what's the. difference between successful. entrepreneurs and versus people who kind. of quit on just the entrepreneurship. Journey after a while I would not call.

them unsuccessful entrepreneurs well I. can like people who make it versus the. people don't make it and the Judgment. criteria can be wealth happiness impact. anything I'm just saying like people who. make it yeah I would answer this very. directly because I think the question is. a very relevant and important one. the people who haven't made it there is. no category like that because actually. that's not a category so it's not that. I'm comparing it to but but the. difference between somebody who made it. and somebody who called it a day because.

there's no such thing as I didn't make. it yeah it only means you call it a day. and therefore the difference between the. two is you didn't stick it out. you didn't stick it out because if you. stuck it out you wouldn't be in this. category that you have self it's a. self-claimed category it's not a. category that is a category. I didn't make it there is no such. category. I didn't stick it out that's a category. I copped out that's a category there's. no question about the fact it may not be.

the success you planned it to be but the. fact is that the people who got it. because they eventually became. successful. okay so if you ask me which of my. journey whatever else is because it's. that's the journey and you're eventually. and then eventually becomes a new. Benchmark and okay there's a certain. Benchmark for which you feel you may not. fall but you could so that is a. progressive one but the people who did. not make it. open the category that doesn't exist but. it's a self-made category called I. didn't make it because I don't think. anyone should sit in that category says.

I didn't make it. why. of course you may fail you may have got. bankrupt. would have happened to you lots of. things may have happened in man at that. particular Point your life is over your. career is over your reputation may be I. don't mean reputation as in you did. something and you know it was crooked so. without ethics your reputation of a. failure those are this those will fly. out of the window in one minute so I. think that category should be mixed.

don't you feel like there are people who. are not cut out for certain things. some people should not be an. entrepreneur and they're trying to. become entrepreneurs or some people. should not be working so then it's not. that they didn't make it they tried. something and they made the wise. decision that I need to go back into a. cry into my into a Zone which I know is. going to be my security Zone like I.

think taking risks or working and taking. that responsibility is not my best I. perform better when I'm part of a. overall support system that doesn't mean. you didn't make it as an entrepreneur. you did that and then you took a good. call that says for good reason not. because I failed not because I didn't. make it so and I'm trying to dissect. this here because I think I've lived all. of those Journeys enough to be able to. dissect that and say very clearly don't. go do it because if you think I'm gonna. I have the option to go back to a job.

you will if you start on your journey. and I think you asked me in the very. beginning whatever one or two things. that I started for my early childhood. and I said one is you know you're on. your own and the second is you don't. have a choice so if you ask me today. given that I had zero opening bank. balance and didn't have money like. everybody else thinks today is their. Birthright that I want to start a. business and let somebody funds me. today at that stage there was no such. thing it was the reverse of that so for. the next 10 years not having any fiscal. support but still building something you.

go with the fact that I don't have a. choice you have won multiple hats okay. there's a media company and then there's. at Tech and then there's multiple things. that the sports franchise right like. everything you've done and you have you. have tasted success in like multiple of. them. after lots of failures but of course we. will come to feel this I'll come to that. but I want to understand like. you know there are people who are really. good at one thing but when they try to. get out of their zone of like a level of. expertise they kind of fail in like. other things right so what do you think.

like what. what makes somebody or what are the. fundamentalists what is that one thing. or two things which make someone. successful in like multiple things yeah. because it's so difficult to succeed. like some domain expertise and figuring. that out I mean the first is the. supposition that I was a media expert. when I decided to start media I wasn't. right I mean again that was Serendipity. okay that got me there the day on which. I said I want to start something was not. the day I knew I wanted to start. something in Media or at the time in. which I started it there was no words. and vocabulary like media and.

entertainment but now the world. describes your like media expert and all. of that at that stage it wasn't the case. right but I used to do a lot of weekend. as a hobby weekend theater. uh I used to do frontal camera hosting. for do darshan at that particular point. in time so why and how those are all. desperate to get pocket money and. theater was something I came not having. from a lower middle class house not. having uh too much of education so soft. skills for me were very important and.

theater debate elocution helped me there. so I think those were the early years. when I felt wow I'm having fun and I'm. earning pocket money to go out on a date. I mean that was real pocket money it was. like 250 rupees on a weekend of 500. rupees on a weekend kind of situation. but enough for you to be able to move up. in your lifestyle and not go home and. ask your parents for even 50 bucks at. that particular point in time so. it was great fun and I so my first part. of my career was not because I was I had.

an inkling towards media and. entertainment but because I was exposed. to it and then I said why don't I make a. business of it. so I think that's that's kind of how it. works I mean I think if I went forward. to so I think domain expertise. um when you're on a job you know when. you've taken engineering or technology. that's a good one but that doesn't mean. today you need to be a specialist Only. You Can Be a generalist so all I'm. saying is people can do something great. for the entire part of their career I'm. sure if you're a great lawyer the. probability of you switching and saying.

I want to be a doctor for the rest of my. life is not gonna it's not gonna work so. there'll always be those examples right. but a leader in a oil rig company can. become a CEO of a media company. why because both are equal in terms of. their probabilities of success you'll. drill 100 times and have three times. when the oil will hit the ground right. I'm just saying it as a yeah so it's. about how you how you build the. organization how you look at your if you. understand consumer if you understand.

consumers you understand Trends you can. actually transcend many many sectors. okay we'll come to Consumer Trends. because that's my favorite favorite. favorite area but speaking on the topic. you said about taking risk on. entrepreneurship right in as an. entrepreneur or as a job as an employer. as anyone you need to take risk in order. to go ahead. there was a very interesting quote which. I heard it says getting rich is about. taking a lot of risk with small amount.

of money and staying rich is a lot about. taking small risks with lots of money. and to me that was like super. interesting but. when you think about it what essentially. the court is trying to say is take. calculated risk at any point of your. life right and you believe in that like. every entrepreneur should keep taking. risk and but what's the right way to. take a calculated risk yeah so firstly I. mean risk is a very subjective word. right because it really the most. important part of a risk is your own.

appetite your own appetite not just. financially your own appetite mentally a. lot of people think you know because can. you have the shock absorbers to take. whatever because if you are resilient it. doesn't make a difference where the. financials will come from that'll get. could get figured out in most spaces if. you have the mental aptitude for it for. risk it will work very differently. to the quotes that you just mentioned I. think my ratio of success to failure is. about eight failures to two successes. so let me explain my formula if not my. quote because I do believe that in and.

this is evolved over a period of time. it's not a strategy that I've walked. into. but at the stage where I walked in with. a DNA that says what have I got to lose. in a snakes and ladders game I'm still. in the game even if I go from 97 down to. six because it's still six it's not zero. okay so what's my worst case I'll go. down to six but I'm still in the game. and I don't know I might still go up. there because there's there's ladders to. climb and snakes to slip down from so I. think my ratio is that when I take the. risks.

the outcome or the failure is a 1x it. could be I invested 10 crores and it was. a write-off or I hired somebody who's a. right offer I started a business and. it's a writer but whatever that is it's. a finite zero sums game. but when you're taking those kind of. risks on a sustained basis and I don't. mean risk just for the sake of taking. risks but if you've got these. opportunities the probability of you. having a 40x 50x or 60x gain versus the. 3x or a 4X gain in the things that. really work you're setting yourself up.

for that. and that's what worked for me as a. formula that while they're enough of the. minus one X's but if two of them are 30X. that's 60. and 60 minus 8 is 52. that could be 32 but it still won't be. two two yeah and I think. now it's not just a mathematical. equation and it's not about only monies. it could be as I said one could be a. decision about personal one could be a. decision about people one could be a. decision about exiting something before.

it's time giving up on something before. it's time all of those are one X's but. because you're moving your journey along. with that that in mind. your probability of high success versus. good success is really where wealth. creation happens okay you talked about. consumer Trends all right and I want to. know that because he said like you can. actually win at a lot of things in the. business World in different Arenas as. well if you know how to spot consumer. Trends okay so give me like what do you.

feel what's the trend in India right now. sure firstly to spot it you need to be. in it right you need to be in the you. need to walk the talk you need to be. doing that you need to be open to the. fact most people are not necessarily. open to the fact they'll take a consumer. research or they'll take a focus group. they want to do it because it's a tick. in their book but actually they're. saying yeah yeah I think what he wanted. to say was this and what no no he's. saying three different things from what. you set out to do in that context so I. think you need to be kind of open to. that.

the second part I think is especially my. media days and today even in in upgrad. and what we're doing in in Skilling. basically. my next 15 years is about preempting. careers of tomorrow it's about seeing. how soft skills can become super skills. for people making them understand that. just a formal degree is fantastic but. it's not the be all in end-all and that. every single day every three years the. good news is and the bad news is that. when you throw up your graduation cap.

and you thought you were done you're not. done anymore. so when you're looking at that and. you're preempting it you need to. understand what's in people's mind right. because I may say here's a career of. tomorrow but the fact is the matter is. that that person may not feel the. agility for it and how do you get them. and therefore understanding what the. consumer what's my messaging to them to. pinch them to make them feel that hey. hey you need to upgrade and one of the. examples and we have a great University. here as part of upgrad which is at bkc. and we had a class of about 35 40 of.

them that were in a room and I came in. there and I brought the head of KPMG and. the head of uh McKinsey there and they. were talking about careers of tomorrow. like here's you know I mean as normal. Consultants everyone talks about here's. what I think is going to be there and. the kids there said actually we are here. to tell you what the careers of tomorrow. are we don't want to hear from you what. you think they are because actually. we're going to make the careers of. Tomorrow it does make a difference. whether you think this is what it is and. this is the future we know what we want.

to do for the next 30 years of our life. and that's going to be the careers of. tomorrow and when you take that Insight. that one insight. I'm sure those two people walked away. from there saying I better shred half my. reports out there because if I don't if. I'm telling people what they need to be. prepared for without listening to what. they think they want to do for the next. 30 Years which is going to give them. maximum of Joy excitement to do I'm. missing the boat. so that's my best example I can give you.

of why it is absolutely important how. you do it. and you need to and I think for me the. best mix today is. I'm I'm involved with storytelling by. making movies so you have to understand. what audiences are looking for just in. every sense of the word why they want to. go to the cinema what do they want to. tell in stories what's the genre what's. it this and then in education what they. want to do with their careers and. work-life balance and if you put all of. that together and if I do a webinar with. 5000 of our alumni on a Sunday I get. more insights with the questions they.

ask than having five boardroom or. meeting room conversations there so it. just depends on how you're open how you. process that information and we know we. spoke a little bit about data earlier on. but data without understanding how. you're gonna. place it in context is very very. important a little bit like I had this. conversation and you know it was so much. gold there but no it may be gold to them. how am I gonna make it platinum or gold. or silver is up to me.

so these are three different lives. you're talking about in three different. things right one is the media and the. stories part I'll come to that the other. was a work-life balance that is a. different part and third was how do you. take people's feedback and then kind of. backward engineer and try to build. things between but I do want to say that. all of three amalgamate because if I.

want to figure out the consumer of. Tomorrow what is their wallet share why. you are spending only 20 on. entertainment three years back and now. you want to make it forty percent of why. you're spending three percent on. education and why you're spending 20 now. all of this you'll need all this. information but we can still break it up. but I'm saying understanding the. consumer to understand because you asked. me the first question on this was what. do you think where do you think. consumers are and what are they looking. for so therefore a lot of that is what. is their wallet share like if you are. 100 bucks what would you spend it on if. the if the if the if if my if my.

community the village where we work for. example if we had 100 bucks so share 100. bucks what would she work what would the. mother do what would the daughter do. what would the son who migrated to. Mumbai from liger do all of these are. very different questions for different. people. oof okay and all right will we come to. this okay interesting take on wallet. share because and give me your take on. this okay I read a report recently uh it. was done by like obviously consultants. and stuff like very named I don't want. to quote them because it might change so.

54 percent what they said that our. parents generation used to save 54 of. their income yeah okay and our. generation only SP only saves 17 of. their income yeah so that's a huge. difference like there's like 30 35. percent which people are spending now. more than saving yeah so where do do you. like you have read the wallet share and. you understand that much better where do. you feel like the consumers of today or. the today's generation is spending the. mindset has changed right I mean the.

fact of the matter is when you ask your. parents and they've got a bank balance. you say Mom Dad why don't you go to. nainital and have a holiday. you know what will happen to me so. they're thinking of that negative. tomorrow you're thinking of the positive. tomorrow. today I have to live so that mindset has. changed a lot and that is a that's not. wallet share that's behavioral pattern. that's pending pattern that's everything. you want to do and a lot of that is. because of the media the social media. the interactiveness and the peer-to-peer. pressure that you get today that they.

didn't have so that to me is the is the. one where somebody is looking that. tomorrow I need to make provide for. tomorrow and you're saying. yeah. that's true I'm little I'm still in the. middle of it I am sometimes. they're still spending by the way I want. to tell you that's slightly better than. some Nations where that 50 is all debt. yeah. yeah but that's what I'm saying so you. take here this is the psyche and.

actually it's a good Indian psyche from. that point of view but if you take a. Western Country take America their. pocket share is not 100 bucks is 400. bucks their pocket shares three thousand. bucks for 100 bucks because you can. mortgage your flat you can do this you. can take on debt everything is on that. basis right so then you're leveraging. is very different and you're leveraging. at 0.25 interest where in India we've. grown up on 8 to 12.5 interest for. example then everyone's mindset your. parents mindset whatever else is there's. a value for money um. but and that doesn't mean I'm saying.

America is a less value for money but. it's just a very different way so wallet. share in each country when you're. looking at a consumer you'll have to see. which consumer the guy in Vietnam the. person in India the person in Bangladesh. the person U.S the person in Ukraine. very different you know what and you. know we tend to yeah I'm having so many. different questions and now not. completing the last one but I'm still. going to ask. so what do you feel like what everybody. we look at Western cultures we look at. Western world and the startups which. have worked there right and we try to.

copy that here that's terrible right but. I've never done that in my life and I. don't know why people do that but I want. to just caution you what you read about. in the media is that small minority of. people that actually look at that but if. you see the people that are out there. and some of the entrepreneurs the SME. sector the small and middle those are. making manufacturing if somebody's. working in climate change or they're. working in agriculture they're working. those are all those are all. non-copy-based so it's a homegrown but. ninety percent of business ideas today. on a cumulative basis not basis on how.

they're funded by nine crazy VC and. private Equity investors who want to. just throw money on people the other. people they when you don't have that. kind of money you come up with better. business models some few investors have. decided to over value you I mean. anything nothing can go to that level no. Mercury rises in such a sudden manner so. I think that was a phase there was a. phase of zero cost of capital there was. a phase in that that report card changes. very very quickly I don't think we. should use that as the gold standard or.

is that as The Benchmark for anything. from that point of view I mean I've said. it before and I'll say it again you know. from the maybe 100 unicorns today I. don't think the out of these hundred. more than 25 will be unicorns in the. next two to three years there might be. another X number of unicorns I'm sure. we'll have many many who will have the. right value but they'll have built a. much more business but today I think a. lot of fragility in the in in the. valuations that have happened there and. for all good reason we know that we know. the reason why it's happened so we. should not we should really be cautious. that they should not become the.

inspiration for all your listeners and. viewers here also today because actually. that's a bad example to follow. and look I mean I think upgrad is in. that category but I I kind of cringe. because I'm just saying we went about. what we went about the first five years. we funded it ourselves and then we went. through with that process but this gold. standard that we put on this self. acclaimed back thumping chess thumping. approach because five people backed you. at a certain valuation and you manage.

that your problems are all starting now. there's a statutory warning. your problems start now after getting. that that decision because now where you. go now where do you go where you go from. here. now you've got to build solid where you. go from here 25 sure out of the 100 yeah. I would say the rest where you go from. here. um. yeah for the and that's not a model then. let's keep that out and then when we. talk about the real India or the real.

opportunities even the real anywhere. from that point of view or the real. Vietnam or the real China or the real. any economy or the real Africa I mean. yeah there's a lot happening true that. that is I'll come to that the India. story right and first I want to complete. the last question was. where do you feel like the. today's customer is spending on like. what do you think where are we spending. the most the year generation is it. entertainment is education like where. are we spending the most yeah so I mean. my Broad and I'm not an economist so I'm.

not coming I'm giving I'm giving a very. down-to-earth person to person as as a. customer nice I can see that the. self-consumption is gone up and I say. self-consumption and then can have many. rules in that so for some people I think. the whole element of what I would call. for yourself is a combination of. entertainment Recreation outdoor. activities something that you want to. consume in that thought process. lifestyle approach what you spend so. there's a whole consumption pattern on. self whether it could be an expensive.

phone because it's you're spending six. hours a day or three hours a day on it. to Lifestyle to how you want to dress. and do whatever else to what you want to. consume in every sense of the word and. Recreation I think today more and more. people have spent more money on that. the savings part I think is the one that. is shrunk because you do believe rightly. so I think and in India that tomorrow is. going to be better than yesterday and I. think when you ask for that generation. maybe your parents at that stage grew up. where tomorrow may not be as good as.

yesterday yeah and then you have a very. cautious approach to life so it's not. that they were born pessimists but it's. just that you felt I have to save for a. rainy day today I don't think that's the. first thing you think of a rainy day. you know part of it is also because you. have a lot of self-confidence today in. in in young India like I'll manage I'll. figure it out. at that time you didn't feel you had to. figure it out that's why my dad said and. tell me but you are on your own yeah. because he didn't think that there would.

be but at that stage in age I felt I'll. figure it out true so that's why my. ability to take risks so my spending. part of 100 wallet will be on great. ideas it may not be necessarily on my. self-consumption the t-shirts and the. trousers I wear I buy 10 of each and. then wear them for 10 years okay so it's. the easiest decision for shopping and is. the easiest decision every morning for. wearing your clothes right so I think. it's each one to their own but still. it's self-consumption it is. self-consumption but it is because you.

believe tomorrow is yes better than is. going to be better than today and I. think some of the other earlier and you. know I I'm not saying I mean I mean that. generation where I feed young but I'm in. an older generation so I I feel I can. relate to both where I do believe. tomorrow is better than yesterday and I. think and spend accordingly um yeah. because you know you you're right you. could have seen my father from like the. best thing happened to me was like I saw. my father grew building okay I I was.

born at the time when we were not doing. very well financially and then. eventually I saw that whole struggle. like up and down up and then and then. eventually started doing better right. but even today his entire life is about. my choti's mom. right his whole life is I've never heard. him saying okay let me go take a it's. like a holiday yeah let me go spend on. myself let me buy something because I. like it yeah okay and whereas we I make. like friends.

not from an indulgent or not lack of. indulgence point of view he might think. it's worth it to take all of you all for. a holiday yeah yeah okay but now you are. not willing to go for a holiday then his. mind will change overnight on that. yeah that's true okay and coming to the. next topic okay that was about education. and because I have my own courses as. well I have my small university called. figuring out University where we teach. people lot of how to become content. creators how do you expand your. businesses through social media and.

stuff like that right and there's. something I came to. a realization because I used to talk. about public speaking as well and I I. used to have courses on public speaking. and stuff right and correct me if I'm. wrong. India specifically this is what the. pattern of scene. India spends very high when there's a. promise of jobs of jobs yeah well of. jobs or the money or something in return. like there's a promise a certificate.

which can get them a better job right. they spend very Less on soft skills yeah. right they and then they spend like. extremely low on something which is just. for passion yeah so the highest is. something which is rewarding them. instantly yeah second is passion and. third is something which is just like. yeah so do you feel that that's true I. think that's a very good categorization. but bottom line is it's not about. whether see firstly education is a very. evolved word because education is a.

talented event now in your life which is. school in college so the minute you say. education sounds like I'm going back to. a place to learn and I think today. people are understanding that education. is a lot more it's a lifelong learning. process or a learning process or. Skilling process or an upgrading process. there you're right that for a lot of. people see in a developing country or. even even though we're going to be one. of the three largest economies we're. still in many ways developing even. though we're not a category of a. developing country in India but in that. category you are looking at where 90 of.

the people do want some sense of instant. gratification there's low Roi on soft. skills because it's not an immediate. yeah you know in the Heart of heart that. they are if I could just do this this. actually I just finished interviewing. for a job but if I I don't think the. connection is that if I knew my soft. skills I would be able to get 80 better. marks just because I presented myself. better rather than I knew everything I. needed to do to go into our interview so. today it's a lack of knowledge that you. feel because soft skills is the most.

important I'm a product of soft skills. yeah I'm not a product of half skills I. did my become and then I moved on to. being an entrepreneur so everything that. I've done since that not having had. funding for 10 years not having had. recourse is about my own self-confidence. then my ability to communicate and I. wasn't born with that right I mean it. was something that I inculcated I. realized the power of soft skills more. than anything else and therefore I'm a. preacher of that I'm an evangelist in my. second book I did was really about. saying how important soft skills is and.

I think for a lot of people they don't. see the immediate Roi. they feel but actually that is going to. be 10 times more critical today in this. field of education and I think what. you're doing here around this show. people want to absorb that today they. want to feel okay so I need that two. three things they might listen to us for. 45 minutes they just need to get two. points out of it nobody needs to get 40. points out of it we've talked about an. array of things and I know you might say. we've talked about lots of things in. this too much but actually what I want.

to do is if two people if one person has. two things to take away from it superb. true now that in that context what they. take will be something that will give. them that level of clarity and. confidence to put into life so I think. soft skills is underrated but it's very. very very critical I've started calling. it super skills because soft sounds soft. yeah but super sounds like shaktimaan. and nice I like that so I think we. should all because we're going to be a. superpower and I think we should just. call it super skills because actually. it's going to give you super powers and.

you're going to be a superhero if you. can just get your soft skills into some. super skills and look there are 60 soft. skills you just need to know two pick. your two not everything is about you. being able to be a creative person or an. articulation or English language yeah. Hindi language. I think it's about any two things that. you think will make you stand out is. what you need to pick and then just. focus on them just curious question from. an entrepreneur what's the difference. between upgrad versus all the other.

attack companies you know. yeah so I mean. the way I see it is. our vision is a much more integrated. approach right I mean I'm saying. somebody may just want to give college. degrees somebody wants to do a boot camp. somebody wants to do just job enabled I. think what we have and this is my media. upbringing and the way I've started a. media company I'm a firm believer that. scale in a country like India or in when. you want to build a global company which. I think we want to do uh is to have. something integrated which means you. take everyone postcode K12 which is a.

college learner all the way till 65 and. look at all their needs and I think. that's a differentiator today where some. people are doing uh study abroad some. people are doing transnational education. some people are doing only boot camp. some people are doing formal degrees. some people doing undergrad degrees some. people have only offline and online. Blended I think our ability is to do all. and I think reflecting back uh when I. started off and finally made a media. business and I think the reason we stood. out and created value was because we.

were not just a content creator we were. not just a production house but we have. 10 broadcast channels yet we understood. content and created for many people yet. we were a movie studio we were an. animation studio in a production house. so it was all very much part of media it. wasn't some Diversified salt to Steel. kind of definition it was a very. connected approach to creativity and and. being a catalyst but in an area where. when something went down something would. go up and I think that makes a you know.

more like an aircraft carrier so I see. ourselves more as a flotilla or as a. sort of an armada of ships rather than. just having one one aircraft carrier. because sometimes once that hit then. it's hit. and where do you which one is your. favorite or where do you see the most. traction out of all the things that you. provide. so at upgrade I I'm fascinated by the. fact that I think the future of learning. tomorrow is going to be a lot more about. peer-to-peer learning and I know that. most people said when you build brick.

and mortar curriculum is important. follow the rules important and faculty. is important and faculty is definitely. important but we're not going to be able. to solve The Faculty problem in India. because it is but peer-to-peer learning. today is becoming today as it's like. anything else right when you want to. consume you don't want to see a. marketing ad anymore you want to see. what 40 other people who experienced it. went through that yeah so that whole. element of study groups and peer-to-peer. learning is something that we're. cannibalizing and second I think that. the umbrella of the future of learning. is coaching and mentoring and I don't. mean one-on-one coaching or even what.

we're doing here it's just the element. of permanent coaching and mentoring if I. look at these two umbrellas I think. that's a guiding force for everything. that we're building for the next 10. years what do you feel like how is what. do you understand about Indian consumers. like give us some consumer Insight which. you feel like oh Indians are different. in this way if I'm an entrepreneur is. there something I should know about. India very well or something diversity. diversity of culture diversity of needs. diversity of spending and I think you. can look at that in the largest common.

denominator you're going to look at it. in the top of the Pinnacle there's so. many different markets that you can play. with here both from a taste point of. view consumption point of view uh ethnic. point of view habits Point of View. Family vanish values point of view or. patriarchical Society versus a. matriarchical society versus just a very. Democratic Society the whole younger. generation this to me this thing of. tomorrow is better than yesterday. psychology is a very very haunting one. to me it's It's haunting well I like the.

word haunting because it's like you know. then there's it's in the room it's. omnipresent and you should it's. something you need to take into account. because when you have that sentiment and. if you can create that sentiment it's a. it's a Minds it's a mindset change. moment if you do believe that and it's. something for you to introspect. do I really believe tomorrow is better. than yesterday every day tomorrow is. going to be better than yesterday okay. and that if you look at it it sounds. like it's just a nice simple firmly. optimistic believing sentence but you. need to actually change your mind and. believe in that and you'll find.

behavioral patterns. in a very different manner your answer. to work life balance will change your. answer to so many other things that you. angst are angst about may go away what. do you look in a movie before you invest. in it so firstly I don't think I I if I. have an investment mindset I'll crash. and burn what kind of movies you create. do you feel like oh this is gonna work. in the movie I think I understand. consumers and I keep wanting to. understand consumers in a different. manner number one number two I want to. be true to storytelling in the way I. want to necessarily do it because what.

is that like what do you understand. about consumers yeah so obviously today. more than ever before outside the fact. that this is an entertainment sector I. think people definitely want a certain. sense of context and a certain sense of. realism so I think the movies we've made. versus see I came from The Outsider so. being an outsider to me the song dance. family approach and you know everything. goes and either that or the dishum. dishum or just hardcore nonsensical but. it works in a hardcore leave your brains. behind yeah I can't relate with that I.

wouldn't be able to make it better and. only make it worse so I stayed out of it. so then therefore from my early days. whether it was for days or whether it. was rang de basanti those were the. breakout stories that appealed to me. right and I guess maybe to that extent. in those early days I do believe that I. was part of the formula that allowed it. to happen maybe if I hadn't backed it. maybe somebody else would not have. backed it and therefore it may not have. happened but being the outsider gave you. the sense that if I stay with my values. now I was not doing it saying I want to.

talk about an audience that I don't know. exists I don't make movies myself. because if I did I would not make 99 of. the movies that I would make because. what I want to see if I want relaxing. versus what I want to see from what I. want to do as a passion are two. different things so to me I think. getting the message across having a. sense of realism that doesn't mean that. everyone should do that but I'm saying. there's so many people doing the other. stuff in any case that one more person. doing that doesn't make any sense so. that's my way of Storytelling now when I.

was running it as a business to what I'm. doing today with RSVP as a passion are. two different things and the reason is. when you're running a business 50 60 of. your decisions are what you have to do. yeah and 40 what you want to do when. you're doing a passion 100 percent. better be what you want to do and. nothing that you have to do because it's. a matter yeah you don't have to do so. you don't have to get up in the morning. and play golf you don't have to go to. the swash court you don't have to play. chess or whatever else you want to do so. that is a very liberating sense of being.

able to then do what you want to do. because you can say no 99 times when. you're running a business you can't say. no 99 times a lot of people are doing. what they used to do in Bollywood and. Divi that's the reason why it's. struggling right now or because or is it. just because of Ott and the South Cinema. has gotten like super successful has. always been around and they tell great. stories yeah but they're just looking. much better and Shining much better. because of the simple reason that. they're doing exactly what they were.

doing and staying focusing on it. innovating and doing it better so yes I. think here because you you talk about. like sense of realism right like in so I. don't want to be judgmental but I think. we've taken our audience for granted. here and I think that's the problem. right and we haven't made the change and. even the main problem is when you're an. insulos industry and I'm not saying we. necessarily are and I don't want to be. critical because I'm very much part of. it I'm very proud of it because the. creative industry does have a strong. impact but when you are insular and when. you're clannish.

you just say the same thing again and. when you're you're with people who. finish the sentence for you is the most. dangerous place to be in. because of every meeting somebody can. finish the sentence for you or going out. saying see all right what a culture. whatever it's so nice we're all we're. all so hum uh sorry where's the. diversity and what's going on outside. and how do you gonna figure this part. out and who's going to challenge you and. then you're then you're in your own. world and you're in la la land funnier. in your own world then you're in a la la.

land and then you're irrelevant. hmm. it's not because of Ott or the world or. it's just about. we're not being though those changes. will be there in any case but thank God. for Ott right thank God for Ott because. the simple reason that good creative. people are getting an opportunity to. write even better scripts for a much. wider audience and what you've done is. now an audience has actually got used to. a different level and of of Storytelling.

and now finds it very difficult to just. be in suspension of reality. or look at a star because the context of. star and actor and Larger than Life has. also changed for a lot of people right I. mean in the younger generation complete. iconic situations are very different a. 20 million uh you know Tick-Tock view a. viewer is is very different than 20. millions of Twitter with an actor coming. to the last topic of the day why do you. feel like giving back is really.

important. because and at the youngest as well like. yeah I think that was my balance I think. it's a root sometimes and I think for a. lot of people who feel uncomfortable in. their work-life balance therefore. they're feeling unsatisfied with their. life in some form or the other and I. know I'm I'm not trying to be a mockery. because there are people who are. thinking they are between the two hours. it's so easy for you to do but I commute. to ours each day each way then I come. home and fact out my family my kids I. don't see them growing up I'm being made. to travel those are ground realities I.

fully get that but you can manage a fair. bit of that is what I think you can be. at least 50 in the control of your. destiny giving back is a very powerful. medium and I think it gave me a lot of. balance because at that early age and I. don't know why it's a little bit like I. wanted to be an entrepreneur I didn't. know what I want to do I became. something in media and entertainment as. I gave you because of serendipity of. doing theater and whatever else the same. way I don't know why but when you know. when we started something my first thing. was that you know about 10 of what we do.

we'll do for giving back and at that. stage again with no balance. the for me we are at 10 000 square foot. office that we had rented and at one. thousand square foot of that we started. the old age home a little bit of a crash. and an orphanage kind of situation and. that was extremely binding because. nobody went home at 6 37 everyone would. you had 30 people in the people all 30. people gravitated that until 8 9 10. because suddenly it was a different part. of them and I saw the culture building.

in an organization at that very early. stage but I wanted to do that so I think. this thing about I can't make a. difference singularly which I think. today the generation feels I think is. wrong and I know that when we did in. 2006 and I remember Amir Rakesh and me. going to Delhi University and they were. you know in that large quadrangle there. were almost 10 000 students and after. the screening and they said sir this is. nice because you know it's a the heroes. die at the end and whatever else and but. there but the cry at that time was.

I can't make a difference yeah it's okay. you can make this statement before using. yeah you think I can make a difference. and I think that's changed today where. people do feel singularly we can make a. difference and I think. in the giving back individuality is very. very important it's not about money it's. about the mindset of that balance. and I think you'll get your work-life. balance because if you're slightly more. blessed than the next person you'll you.

look at life in a very different. perspective and I've come from a lower. middle class household so I can identify. with that Journey that I've taken that. at every stage if I look back over my. shoulder and say ready but if I've come. here what about this person and hey you. know what about that person or. I was privileged in the last five years. of my life to go to a good school like. cathedral but before that I went to an. even good school called Dunn's Institute. right where it was it was a challenging. environment then today I still sponsor. at least about seven to ten kids from.

that institution but that's just because. you're looking over your shoulder so I. think it's not a categorization and I. feel sure there are enough people who. say make a pledge I think that's all. fine and it's nice because maybe Bill. Gates and Buffett have at least made. philanthropy a little bit more high. profile but I'm not it's it's a very. personal thing but I would say for. everyone in the younger you can do your. balance it gives you a very strong. purpose even if it's ten percent it's. like your wallet share in that wallet. share you don't need to spend one rupee.

of it but take 10 of your mind share and. it'll make a big difference. so it's either you give back via time or. you give back via wallet chair or like. money my daughter runs a mentor mentee. program with about 700 called The. Lighthouse project and I've spoken to a. lot of people in the you know they're. they're young professionals or. college-going kids who adopt a kid and. you need to spend about a day a month. with that and actually most of them. spend much more but the impact it's had. on the mentors is more than it's had on.

the mentees. so I think it's a strong message for. anyone wanting to look at a balance in. life forget work life balance mind. balance mind share balance very. important I see it's like self-help and. help others both the categories you. should be there yeah yeah that's what. Mom says you know my mom says like you. guys keep reading about self-help. self-help self-help you need to have a. lesson in your life which says help. others absolutely like start reading. books you want to say in that early. stages while you may be helping somebody.

else you are big time helping yourself. for the future. so introspect on the impact is having on. you also there is an Roi for you not an. Roi for somebody else when you're doing. that so be selfish when you're giving. when you're being something you'll get. you'll get a lot of self-conviction on. yourself and that you'll be able to. you'll just be able to you'll feel that. all right on that note thank you so much. thank you I think we are I think it. flowed yeah I think it was very natural.

and obviously you have a lot of. curiosity that brought about a very. diverse set I didn't see you looking at. any notes ever it was more about. something you didn't ask about a lot of. stuff like so so many things but best. way for something is for the water to. flow yeah yeah thank you so much for. watching this episode till the end. please let us know in the comments if. you like this guest if you didn't like. the guest what question do you want us. to ask from the next guest which is. coming until the next episode keep. figuring out and don't forget to share.

it with at least one person because. one conversation can give 100 ideas and. out of those 100 ideas if one can. Implement even one in their lives then. their Indian dream will come true. [Music]. [Music].