The ART Of Investing Money & Wealth Creation ft. Kotak's Srikanth Subramanian | FO 59 - Raj Shamani

this is exactly the time where investors. are better off being very cautious. rather than giving into these decibel. levels of by the day but by this talk or. by that sort of thing one of those times. well let the current pass China is one. of the biggest economies second biggest. economy of the world is still not fully. open it is not the best health that you. would want the global economy to be in. getting rich fast is always risky there. is no get rich quick in the world of. investing the only get rich quick uh. analogy involved of investment is luck.

you cannot just come in and buy a stock. because someone told you so in today's. episode we thought of getting someone. who has seen the financial World from. very close he spent 20 years of his life. in a bank and now he's come up with a. cool startup by the bank itself and this. is something very fascinating to me to. understand how a large organization. which is traditionally run how can they. come up with something cool and compete.

with the startups of the future how are. they trying to modernize their messages. which can be relatable to the Gen Z to. the Millennials of the future generation. of our country how in the world. investors like you and me like common. people can make a lot of money just by. being patient and not being impatient. about it what are the things which we. need to keep in mind what are the things. which we need to learn and understand in. order to make a lot of wealth and what. happens in U.S and Russia and China and.

Japan and how all of these things around. the world which are happening is really. important for us as a common investor as. well we've talked about a lot of this. stuff in fact we've touched upon all the. broader themes which a common man should. need to learn in their life in order to. make a lot of money and why there's an. income disparity in our country and how. we can bridge that Gap as well so if you. want to understand Finance world the. Khan countries the geopolitics what goes.

on around the world and how it affects. your and my life make sure that you. watch this episode till the end because. it's a really intense and intelligent. podcast which you will thank yourself. for by giving out time to just complete. this till the end. but we generally want people to come. with a view give us a serious teaser. okay don't come because your next door.

neighbor told you to buy this stock in. you. it's always been the case that people. come because there's a big Trend in big. fashion then they heard today in India. there's a big crypto refugees right yeah.

it was a population people who did that. and are now nursing their wounds so at. some stage what do they do now if you. pull them out and say that you made a. big blunder you're not going to get them. back a point if someone has to lead them. back and say keep us yeah yeah. now when you come in just chill and. actually create capital for a period of. time so ultimately it is not art it is. science money management is science art. part of it is just temperament but you. cannot just come in and buy a stock.

because someone told you so there is a. difference between betting on the 35 on. a relatable versus betting on a stock. stock May there is a balance sheet there. is a p in there might as well just go. through with it so I think some of those. tenants will work here yeah go ahead. like I want to go deeper on this before. even you get into the podcast I want to. understand this he said investing is not. an art is a science go deeper on this. like what do you mean by that what I'm. saying is that it's okay to be emotional. with certain views But ultimately when. you make that decision.

it is you're making a decision to buy a. particular company right as far as talks. is concerned or buy a particular Bond. all these are heavily substantiated with. what the company stands for what the. company makes as a product who the. consumers of the companies what kind of. profits are there what kind of margins. are there in my 18 year old niece the. other day comes to me and says I'm. buying this stock I just asked the four. questions I said okay what does the. company do what's the market cap of the. company no clue why because everyone in.

the college would have downloaded a cool. fintech app with a great UI ux may have. got some reward coins also in the. process of doing that and now I want to. trade into stocks I said okay do that. it's fine it's actually better than not. doing it yeah so the only thing was then. what you are doing is to not do it it's. the fact that you're doing is great but. if you just push yourself one step extra. and answer these four questions what is. it that the company does. what is the market cap of the company is. it a market leader and what it does and.

is the company making profit or the. company making. losses. but at least these four questions. and if true like most of the people who. invest in certain stocks if you ask them. HR questions. that people believe that the simpler the. product is more people can buy right uh. the simplest product that I can think of.

what is blockchain what is this but just. because it was conceived and. conceptualized as a cool product. everybody jumped into it right so there. is a learning for people like us from. that and there is a learning for. investors also in there learning for us. is. you create the right ecosystem and the. right pool for the customers to come in. right what is it that crypto investors.

loved crypto investors loved agility. crypto investors love 24x7 trading. environment crypto investors love very. fast pace fast movement stuff and good. UI ux. why can't an incumbent player dish out. good quality products but in that. environment so I think if you marry the. learning from that. and then move the needle from just a. high risk product. to all products get the customer to come. in but tell them that at this point in.

time when the entire world is Raising. interest rates. that wealth management can cut across. multiple products. great to do stocks but do it by. minimizing information architecture I. think that's that's what I meant when. you start minimizing information. Arbitrage you're bringing more of.

science into it because you are getting. into an analytical bent of mine and. you're asking questions so even my. LinkedIn post generally are provoking. investors to ask questions and minimize. information about Judge so but you know. I understand this game and like at the. end of the day you will be well aware. and you'll be making well-informed. decisions once you minimize the. information Arbitrage that's fair but. there's a common narrative especially in. the young people there's a fire moment.

there's everything around it right if. you want it fast we want everything. quick we that there's a famous saying in. us right that we all are microwave. generation we want everything in 30. minutes similarly we see it as wealth as. well like in five years you want to be. rich because every day you open I don't. know Forbes you open uh your story do. all these pages and you will get to know. us this guy became billionaire at 19 at. 30 a 21 so everybody wants very very. fast so is there any way that people can. get it fast or what do you feel like.

this is the the whole notion is also. wrong like what's what's the scene so. getting rich fast is always risky right. what do you do once in a while live to. life live to live in the fast lane. so I think investing by this notion has. to be called out and called out and said. that you can be brutally lucky if you. made an investment right but do not try. it again if you make it once please cash. your chips and go out uh because you're. not going to get your luck again twice. but I think what will happen in India if. young people really want to go down that. road is a California moment is a Silicon.

Valley moment try doing that through. innovating and turning entrepreneurs. rather than moving into investment and. trying to shorten that time Horizon I. think Kunal yesterday tweeted well that. the number of 18 year olds running. entrepreneurships in India is is a cool. thing I'm all for it I'm all for people. coming in trying their hands at uh. entrepreneurship I actually truly. believe that India's moment in the sun. is now in terms of nothing can stop the. culture of innovation and. Entrepreneurship but that's a different.

skill set that's a different Nuance but. to get into the stock market and trying. to think that this is how it will happen. that's a very different skill set it. doesn't happen like that because. companies come companies go and usually. by the time you enter uh maybe it's the. time that lot of other informed. investors are moving out so do not. confuse luck with a proven. uh sort of a model to get rich quick. there is no get rich quick in the world. of investing the only get rich quick uh.

analogy involved of investment is luck. fair fair fair no it makes sense that if. you want to make money quick or if you. want to make money faster anything of. that sort you make money by making not. by investing exactly exactly exactly. that's the whole idea right and what's. your take on spending and consumerism I. was reading her I was reading a study in. the research by BCG I guess I don't know. if I'm quoting it wrong like but it was. BCG that earlier like you know parents. generation they used to save more than.

54 of their income now in our generation. we make less we save less than 17. percent of our of our income right so. we're spending more we're buying more. things we're doing more things right so. it this also. a this gives us an opportunity to. like buy more things and get economy to. a better space but also it's like a very. simple place because nobody's investing. nobody's saving now so what what's your. take on this like people should spend. more what should they do but so that'll. be uh patronizing too much right I do.

what you're comfortable with I think. once people start investing we can still. tell them what's right but uh quite. honestly uh money management is all. about being in your skin if you think. and again a very Western culture 20. years ago everyone would spend more than. their own they were Max Max of their. credit cards. and they will and so at some stage the. fact that Indians this generation of. Indians whether it's gen Z's or the last. Millennials are doing that as no. surprise usually most of the trends that.

happen in the U.S are LeapFrog back in. India yeah but also what is true is uh. life expectancies are going to be much. higher than what it was so at some stage. whether you have a realization now or. whether you have a realization when. you're in your 40s or 50s there was a. time not too long back and there is a. book called 100 year live written by two. London School of economists it's a very. fascinating book essentially what the. book says is not too long ago you would. start work at about 23 24 you would. retire at about 58 and you would kiss.

goodbye to the world at about 72.73. right so in other words you would work. for about 35 odd years. do. to save enough money to last the next 14. years 58 to 72 is 14 so the match was. like this that you worked for 35 years. you save for the next 14 years look at. the maths now uh your retirement age. hasn't changed maximum 58 has become 60. you are all going to live till 85 1995. if not more so now all of a sudden the.

equation changes where you are working. for 35 years and you have to save for 35. years simple math you don't need a. banker to come here and tell you that. that if you have to earn 35 years for 14. years versus you have to earn 35 years. for the next 35 years. should you bring about a behavior change. yes or no because old age can be a vein. or a bone both in terms of physical. fitness and your personal balance sheet. you can either have an outstanding life. with enough uh balance sheet to keep you.

happy and enough uh physical fitness to. keep yourself happy or you'll be one of. those who will be left to fend for. yourself with no money and no physical. fitness I think there are Trends. changing they are Trends changing in. terms of world of expectancy there are. Trend changing in the way things are. shrinking so what was an IBM Watson. moment where uh when IBM first got the. supercomputer there were a bunch of. people who said there is an engine of V. getting disrupted. they will still need someone to run that.

machine and people who kept fighting. that Trend were washed out and people. who reskilled themselves and moved to. managing Watson were the ones who yeah. sort of survived for the next 20 years. similarly upskilling is another big. thing right so this generation will keep. realizing that if you don't upskill uh. 50 of all that you're going to do is. going to be done by robots or is going. to be done by others so. things around playing for a much larger. life expectancy things around the fact.

that your Cycles are shortening and. shortening frightfully so uh and hence. you have to upskill those are Trends you. can't wish away but whether we do it. like in crypto even when crypto was at. its peak there were a lot of voices of. Sanity which said that it's a clear case. of low monetary regime fueling a big. asset bubble but who listens to it right. at that point in time a three thousand. dollar crypto was trading at 64 000. crypto and they were podcasts and.

podcasts around how they were overnight. crypto billions so no one was Keen to. look at that but the reality was still. there people knew that once the money. starts getting tightened it will happen. so I think many times voices of Sanity. talk about things but you only realize. it when it happens to you so for this. generation only word of caution and not. as a banker but as somebody who's been. there is uh. for for sure live your life for sure. consume but the reality is these are two.

realities that you can't wish away you. have to live a longer life make it a. fortunate life for yourself and you have. no option but to upskill and upskill at. some stage will require money so be. clear on all of that right let's talk. about upscaling right you picked out. like a really cool point and I feel this. is really important for everybody to. just understand and reinvent themselves. every three years forget now like 10. years or 20 years because every three. years there's a new wave of Technology. new jobs which would never existed. before right right so.

what do you think like what are the top. three skills which people need to. upskill themselves in today's world. as of now I mean I'm sure in next two. years or three years will change but I. think all of us need to get into some. level of digital question top uh now. whether it is a full-fledged coding role. but I don't think we any one of us and. more so over the next five years. will be very relevant if we are absolute.

novices as far as digital quotient is. concerned so at least get comfortable as. far as understanding the broad world of. uh how digital economy works so. depending on if your job entails or. slightly more primitive uh Skilling. requirement or like for example for me. after 21 years of doing something where. technology at very limited role or at. least so we thought I completely pivoted. into something where technology is the. heart of it yeah it took me a while uh.

because a lot of unlearning learning. happens at especially after you spent 20. 21 years in a very strong sort of a. domain role but I took that call myself. because I have another 20 years in front. of me of a very active life and I said. the current role can get disrupted very. quickly so I truly believe that. everybody should upskill themselves as. far as digital quotient by and large. broadly is concerned so that's one big. upskilling that's going to be done I. think second is it's time to be more.

worldly wise so wait sorry sorry when. you mean digital you mean technology. like let's say just just get into. technology understand either you become. Tech driven or Tech enabled but you need. to understand yeah and you need to be. comfortable with what the whole. ecosystem is I don't think technology is. just about being relegating to having an. insta and a lot of Facebook friends. you've got to just at least understand. how you can uh disseminate a lot of. things Services information products. using technology I mean the other thing. I also think that uh. Indians are generally worldly wise so.

that is one skill that will keep us well. because usually developed countries has. got one big issue is that they're very. straight jacketed they're very good and. one thing that they do but they're not. very worldly wise I think looking at. Trends across the world sometimes is a. great way to also help yourself upscale. because what is the next Trend that is. prevalent and if you look at. time and time again uh both tangible and. intangible trends at least have entered. India after being continuous for a long.

time whether it's the spending pattern. that you mentioned whether it's the. Telecom Revolution whether it's a tech. Revolution. to that extent one of the things that. hopefully we get to talk is this whole. ETF revolution in India in U.S nobody. buys emotional funds anymore everybody. buys ETFs because for the fraction of a. cost you are able to get Equity returns. uh and I'm just giving an example in my. domain but such are so many examples are.

there. till about six seven years ago the. narrative in India was. grocery. online. are meant only then will you buy look at. it today right I have a party on Friday. and most of my shopping is happening. online. so things change people change uh Trends. change so the other thing that people. should do is gently be more aware I.

don't think in this kind of a world. where things are happening uh one should. limit themselves uh and be very archaic. in thinking. so the upskilling in terms of being very. very aware is also very crucial so I. think those are two three things if one. can leave people with and yeah okay but. how do you upgrade your business Acumen. because I'm sure like you started your. career okay let's. before you answer this question I want. to go back to first like you joined code.

talk 20 years ago yeah. 2000 okay and how did you get into it. like tell me that about it so that's a. very complicated route I passed out of. college they offered me a job I took it. I said the first job you took it is the. campus placement they just asked me a. question are you a thinker or are you a. doer five people before me they're all. what else the same question all of them. said thinker I said let me Shuffle it up. I said I'm a doer I'm the only one who. got a job and I stuck ever since and the. guy who recruited me still my boss now. so. very fast I have nothing interesting to. give you.

this was interesting enough this is good. which college did you go to okay yeah. it so okay so now that you entered you. entered a corporate world you enter. banking like the one of the fascinating. careers I'm sure 20 years ago even today. it's like it's like everybody believes. that's the place you make maximum money. that's the place you have Maximum Impact. all of that. all right so how do you upgrade your. business Acumen because in 20 years you. must have gone to a lot of dips a lot of.

highs all of that you must have seen in. all I'm sure like you must have seen. like at least two cycles. Capital markets yes. multiple cycle so how do you upgrade. your business Acumen because business. Acumen needs an upgradation every two to. three years so what do you do now that. you don't read business books what's the. scene so see very early on uh someone. was holding a talk uh. emphasized on the whole aspect of. knowledge and I really believe that in. our industry both in fintech and in.

financial services unfortunately the. emphasis on knowledge is very low the. emphasis is more on getting cool. aggressive sales guys getting uh Hotshot. uh sales techniques this and that and. fintech is all about uh UI ux rewards. incentivizing the customer but somebody. stuck me that we are in a way domains. field whether it's a field of healthcare. Financial Services education the core of. it is domain and domain is knowledge.

business books aside but I never have. betrayed my loyalty towards being one. level up as far as knowledge is. concerned because that's one thing we. thought is never going to get disrupted. even if you have to program an AI you. have to have native intelligence to be. able to program any tool so besides. having the Practical experience of. having been through 20 years meaning. customers seeing business like because. seeing Global financial crisis in 2008. seeing pandemic seeing a geopolitical.

crisis in 2013 Ben 10. drum seeing 2000.com bust when I was. just starting my career seeing I think. all of them of course so many great. things liberalization or around. Insurance Advent of technology and. embracing of uh technology in India so. having seen a if you're in the think of. things you learn a lot and you apply. that with reasonable knowledge. application so business books are not. knowledge just right I mean they're. great you've read it up to a point and.

then you said oh good too great to last. okay and you realize that beyond the. point it's a very easy. motivation. go back to your text not textbooks but. go back read what uh products are. someone who talks crypto go in depth so. I'll generally read a lot or study till. I don't get it so I remember I was in. insurance for the first six years 2001. to 2008 2008 I moved to private wealth.

okay so for me it was a very big move. from a very retail industry to a very. Niche industry and Kodak wealth was the. leader we would only take clients about. five crores and insurance means. so for six months I remember from an uh. one of my management trainees was from. ISB I used to pick him every day and. drop him every day only one condition he. rose. topics and he was a geek he was positive. IIT ISB so every day he would teach me.

one derivative topic one this topic so I. never betrayed knowledge and I also felt. that 2001 we passed out we were actors. right there uh India boomed economy. opened up and listen we are middle class. people right so only thing that gets us. going is we're very scared of not. working hard yeah. they will work hard India opened up gave. us the right context and we continue to. be very sincere to our job and so going.

back to the topic like you said you love. reading about Concepts and stuff and. I've always heard that people who want. to get into investing or want to make. wealth or people who want to start their. companies or whatever like anything in. terms of capital work they need to. understand the concept of capitalism. okay and if there was a survey done in. India like people who are business. owners business owners small business. msme's everybody 87 of them don't know. what capitalism is and so it's like it's.

crazy so what do you why why don't you. tell us like what do you think like what. is capitalism why don't you explain us. the concept of capitalism by the way. while we're talking capitalism and a. threat right because the entire concept. that was started by Milton Friedman that. the existence of a corporate is for. profit worked very well as America being. the Cradle of capitalism but they are. now challenging that notion because both. in terms of an economic. Cornerstone which is capitalism and a.

political Cornerstone which is democracy. both are being challenged left right and. Center so it's a it's an ironic time. that we are having this conversation but. essentially capitalism puts the heart of. uh uh profit making in the center and it. says that the main reason for existence. of a corporate is uh to maximize Capital. uh brutally pushes on meritocracy that. and survival of the fittest so those are. the concepts uh that if you have the.

right means and if you have the right. Merit and if you have the right skills. you should be disproportionately. rewarded yeah now as a capitalist. economy you have to be clear and we saw. U.S for example getting tested in 2008. where for all the capitalistic values. when it they were really faced with the. risk of capitalism which means that to. let go of AIG to collapse they started. with letting Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae. to collapse uh bass turns also but when.

it came to a large organization like AIG. as a government they also started right. and rightly so because as a government. you have a different discourse than as. an industrialist so purely capitalism is. all about putting profit making putting. meritocracy putting survival of fittest. at the heart of it and it does not owe. any apology to what means you use of. course as long as legitimate and within. the Realms of Law and regulation uh what. means you use to get to the top prize so.

essential capitalism is make your money. to the best use and money creates more. money and that's where the whole thing. is uh and a lot of people think that. China for example is not a capitalist. country and it is not okay but private. individuals can still be careful yeah so. capitalism is not a form in which it's. your as a country needs to the your. country can be either a socialist or a. capitalist or as in the 60s and 70s it. was Communist was a big uh quote-unquote.

threat at that point of time but. essentially capitalism with what what. puts profit making right in the center. of everything yeah and they are okay but. the reason why Capital capitalism is. back again in the front of the. discussion is the entire disparity of. income in the world is also a. manifestation of root capitalism yeah so. I think that's where the whole issue is. now coming around especially post. pandemic uh the income generation or the. income disequality has never been more. stock than what it is right now no true. you know in fact I was reading about.

there's a quote by I think. James or something like Vincent. Churchill keeps quoting this again and. again it's like uh in in the world of. capitalism there can be a bad capitalist. right in the world of socialism there. can only one bad thing that's socialism. and the reason for him to say this is. what because every human being he says. primitively is selfish for happiness is. just optimizing for his own happiness. and that optimization of Happiness can. come from either more money or more.

satisfaction or just by more giving to. more people right right all of this will. only happen when you are at the place. where you have abundance of Health right. so that way everybody needs to feel and. follow this what what's your take on. this do you feel agree or disagree I. think let's listen many of these are. really cool sounding idioms also and. they would have worked at a point of. time except that everything goes through. a context in today's world one of the. biggest issues facing the world is. genuinely inequality and disparity of.

income you try telling this to uh. someone sitting outside uh let's say a. Billionaire's house uh he's not going to. get two Hoots about it I think uh the. level of inequality and disparity we are. seeing. me actually The Truth May lie somewhere. between capitalism and socialism in. today's context and that that does not. again mean that 25 30 years later uh. this again will be true your biggest. example is West Coast California right I. mean look it's what happens in San. Francisco San Francisco the disparity of. income is so huge that the problem of.

homelessness is real I mean you can't. walk downtown California from one place. to the other without meeting at least. five people inserting the needle or. sitting outside or defecating. at some Stitch this has happened. systematically because the entire. technology wave pushed through a. formation of capital but this Capital. went and lumped up into the top end of. the economy and the bottom end became so. unaffordable for people to even live in.

the city that it started pouring out and. now post pandemic we are seeing that. remnants of that thing only increasing. in many parts of India and in many parts. of the world including some in India as. well so I think answer does not there's. no perfect answer of capitalism versus. socialism I think many of us these are. ideologies these are philosophies. there's nothing wrong there's nothing. right as long as we don't use brutal. force of the state to do anything you. should know what it stands for in a. democracy that's the beauty of it right. and you choose what the party stands for.

and if you think that that is what is. more correct for you you go around but. in today's world. naked capitalism the way it is. surely getting challenged and surely. getting uh provoked so whether the. answer to that is socialism or whether. the answer to that is a little bit. hybrid Is Still Remains to be seen but. this equality or a non-parity of income. is one of the big issues that the world. will have to solve itself as we move.

forward. right it's fair like what do you think. like what should we do as a common. person in India like how can more people. can get to a significant point of wealth. like what do you think was the reason. why most of the people where everybody. is anyway. starting from a point that where they. want to have a good life they want to. create wealth for themselves why like. most people are not able to make is. there a reason like do you feel what's. the major reason why why there's a. difference between us to specifically.

see India is a large country right so we. come with our own sets of complications. which are not always very easy but at. the same time I also feel at some times. we are passing through the animals of. History because our demographic dividend. is just so rich that it can either it. can go in Only One Direction. either it goes in the direction where. almost 50 percent of our population is. below 30 some say it's even below 25. if we channelize those. people coming into the workforce by.

upskilling them by forget about Upstream. action but by just killing them and. channelizing them into the right. employment culture I think the future of. India is extremely bright on the other. hand if for some reason it doesn't look. like because we seem to be going the. first road if for some reason these. people are not generalized as far as the. right skill is concerned then you are. going to have a very different problem. of extremely young Lord with no skill no. employment and that is where social.

under starts spilling out in the. societies I think by and large if there. is awareness across all of us whose. either employed in positions of. influence or are creating an Enterprise. through with a small scale or big. Industries to ensure that there is. reasonable inclusion and inclusion I. think the large part of inclusion right. now is around diversity but I think if. you push the envelope a little bit more. inclusion is also around income streams. and income equality and I think if we.

can just be a little more conscious of. it and make sure that we are actually. doing our bit to make sure that uh many. people get the right opportunity not. just a state I think State and Center. are still doing what they can but also. as job creators also as people employing. within a firm uh that we don't. differentiate basis class we don't. differentiate basis income that is a. that's a best case I mean look at what's. happening in Japan they literally will. have two at some stage import more and.

more demographics because the number of. people at certain age and above is so. huge that soon they won't have people to. just do the basic work required to keep. the economy chugging uh China is now. revisiting their one one family one. child policy because while it's dividend. up to a point in time now the. demographics is against them I think. it's a golden era for India uh I think. the fact that we are a good stable. democracy I think the fact that uh in. general uh socialism was at the heart of.

how we started without actually uh. making capitalists look evil so there. was a right balance that we have and. this Rich demographic dividend that we. can reap I think if the script is. written well and followed to the T. there's no reason for me to believe that. it can be a very fascinating Journey for. India as we move forward I mean I'm a. product of the last 20 years of how. India opened up a regular middle class. family educated but educated okay decent.

got a job stuck to her did it sincerely. and just grow along with the company and. the company grow along with India and I. think this story can be played many. times out with so many more people who. are coming in the skilled labor force uh. as India most the most forward you talk. about the story of India and you gave. like a very good just notification. around it and everything which you said. like makes a lot of sense okay my point. is where do you see like the top four or. five opportunities for Indians to play. and like what are the industries what.

are the businesses or what is that so. software for sure I think we've spoken a. lot about software for last almost 10 20. decades but if India's software used to. be more about. um I don't know so far as in uh Services. industry looking at people with so most. of the technology companies most of the. top guys are usually Indians so if at a. point in time it was about brain drain. where people from India would move uh. for greener pastures overseas I think we.

are seeing that stemming a bit I think. the number of homegrown Indian companies. turning unicorns both in the start of. new age companies and old companies. becoming bigger and bigger and truly. taking the mental of a multinational. company is now evident yeah so I think. as India moves towards creating not just. strong Indian companies but actually. Global multinational companies are. repute uh that's one area that I feel so. Services is one area that India can do. very well I think as China comes out of.

its zero covert policy see we'll have to. see the extent of damage it has caused. but it is for a fact that the longer an. economy like that remains shut and the. fact that geopolitics is turning its. head in very different ways India should. ideally fancy its chances to take a. large part of that manufacturing as well. peace because we've practically got. everything that we want we've got large. land Mars we've got large uh employment. base we've got demographics we've got.

reasonable Law and Order and we've got. democracy so in some sense if we believe. that we've got the right ingredients. I feel that sometimes we get cynical. because a lot of these we think that are. just slogans but you know they're very. smart because it starts getting. ingrained in your head and genuinely if. executed well next 5 10 15 years could. be a very golden decade so I think. whether it's the services industry. whether also the fact that we should. fancy ourselves from taking away from uh.

some of the other manufacturing UPS of. the world including China and India. actually looking at it some of these are. cliches but they are absolutely very. potent and the other thing that I truly. feel more for tier one cities but also. at some stage tier two tier threes uh as. more and more kids graduate and pass out. of schools and colleges. parents will do well to be more. open-minded to channel them into. non-conventional jobs and actually. Skilling them into that I think like for. example many of us when we were passing.

out it was your classic doctor engineer. MBA Banker architect so you could almost. sort of list down seven eight nine. professions which were also glorified or. else you would become a businessman. I think the number of avenues the number. of opportunities that are out there and. getting called out in tier one cities it. will figure itself out in terms of. manifesting itself into tier two tier. three cities yeah so I think if our.

generation of parents keep their mind. open. what we used to call it extracurricular. activity is now our mainstream. activities including let's say what. successful people like you are doing. whether it's in the area of sports. whether in the area of content whether. it's in the area of digital uh I think. those are again areas that one should. watch out first talking talking about. cool you know I was wondering why did. you name such a cool thing to your new. thing Cherry just so that you ask the. question. because like when you look at kotak like.

it's a large bank and traditional how. India works I give your last name and. don't think much about it like just keep. going on and build a brand around it and. all of a sudden then you come up with. something like as I was like it's like a. sweet and so simple as like Cherry like. why was it like is there a conscious of. course there was a full-fledged the. white team involved behind it and a lot. of names went we were very clear that we. wanted a new Fresh uh a name that does. not sort of draw upon the old uh World.

system at the same time we are very. conscious that we always use Cherry by. kotak because the bicotic part of it is. what builds trust and governance but the. first line itself of cherry out of all. the options the marketing they went and. picked uh while the name sounded fresh. the name sounded young but there are. also interesting wordplays that at. various points of time we can unleash. right Jerry picking is all about picking. the best investments. basket of cherries is all about uh. diversification.

so I think there are multiple wordplays. that one week one we can do and uh I'm. sure our marketing team is very cleverly. thinking of weaving around many of the. word places we move forward no I like. the name I it's kind of cool and it's. very rare to see like a large old. business to come with cool names because. one of the one of it's a fact like. large traditional companies are good at. so many things but they're really bad at. naming.

yeah this could have been named. something as the name as kotak digital. platform yeah exactly but I think to be. to full credit uh to kotak in this case. they genuinely wanted this to be a. company of the future they really wanted. this to be an offering that stands. itself out and does not intimidate the. newer generation investors in thinking. that it's an old world platform that's. not intimidate older consumers think. that this is only a meeting point for. very young investors and hence that.

cherry. smartly attached by bicotic packs a. punch and that's how and we're actually. quite happy about the whole thing yeah. no it turned out to be well so tell me. like tell me more about it actually I. want to understand more and I want. everybody to understand this as well. like what has a customer anyone who's. like a viewer what can cherry do for us. like what's the difference. so essentially it's a One-Stop shop for. anything that your money can do that's. what the ultimate aim is we've already. uh fairly deep into that Journey so.

essentially we are demystifying the. entire investment ecosystem for an. investor we believe that Indian. investors have either very large wealth. managers who offer them Wealth. Management Solutions or a plethora of. DIY fintech platforms which allow them. very cool access but then sort of let. them navigate the whole Jungle of. Investments on their own we believe true. wealth management lies somewhere in the. middle a we want to invite everyone we.

don't want this to be restricted to a. cozy Club of only large investors and. one of the beautiful things about. technology is that it is very Democratic. in nature technology doesn't. differentiate between a customer on the. basis of City a or city B small or big. wealthy or non-wealthy so since we are. using technology as the means to solve. for this problem we want to take that. message forward and we are fully. Democratic where we are saying that all. that we have done in the last 20 years. as solving for Wealth Management. Solutions for some of the richest.

Indians we now without any buyers want. to bring it to almost everybody else in. India back in the day five years ago. when we said India invited for our 811. Neo banking option we want to restate. that and say now everyone in India has. reinvited for building their investment. Journey with cherry so one part of. cherry is to make sure that any investor. is welcome to build that investment. Journey second part of cherry also says. that we will start from where the DIY. Journeys leave you with if a DIY Journey.

leaves you with 1500 mutual funds to. choose from thousand five fifteen. hundred stocks to choose from we believe. right Wealth Management Solutions leave. you right very Wealth Management. Solutions is all about curating and. giving leading you to write Solutions. rather than you having to navigate. through thousands a thousand stocks a. thousand funds so the experience in. Cherry will not limit itself to giving. you just unlimited access to all schemes.

but will slightly provoke you to come. and say what are the right five mutual. funds for you what are the right five uh. stocks for you and currently Cherry is a. platform where some of these bunching of. mutual funds and punching of stocks are. done by some of the top fund houses are. done by some of the top uh registered. investment advisors on the stock basis. but we want investors to come and not be. lost in a jungle but to be guided in. terms of picking what is right for them.

the other and important point also about. what we wanted to do is we wanted to. have a very holistic experience for. clients because we believe that true. investment management is not just about. one product and cranking Up the Volume. around it whether it's on Equity alone. or whether it's only on mutual funds. true wealth management is also to tell. investor what is right at what point in. time now for example there are three. listed REITs in India okay now rates can. be bought for as low as 350 rupees 400.

rupees and it's one of the few. instruments in India which is Perpetual. it never extinguishes it just continues. to be there for time immemorial and you. keep getting some coupons on a very. regular basis now why should Indian. investors. not look at something like a rate which. is extremely low cost extremely. democratized because you can jump onto a. platform like cherry and use any of your. Brokers to just come and buy rates and. it is extremely fractional in nature. because it's as low as 35400 rupees.

similarly ETFs we spoke some time back. on ETFs now ETFs has got every. ingredient to. actually substitute many other. investment options yeah and I for once. will not make a statement of saying that. in India ETFs will be the only mutual. funds available I think the truth will. lie in the Middle where the right. combination of ETF mixed with the right. combination of actively managed mutual. funds will be the right answer for. investors now let's say something like a.

large cap mutual fund which essentially. placed in the top 100 or listed stocks. in India. has one very strong use case for being. substituted by an ETF and in the last. three years four years there is a. tendency that we see that generally. Nifty has outperformed most of the. actively managed funds very quickly I. must start it may not always be the case. and again people should not get overly. Carried Away by thinking that if in the. last three years. uh.

Nifty has done better it may not be the. case for the next series but it does. very strongly put the notion back that. buying of ETF is a very credible. opportunity it is available at almost 30. 25 of the cost of mutual funds and packs. a punch in terms of delivering risk. adjusted return take the example of a. concept like bonds. if India has 10 crore demand account and. if India has almost similar number of. mutual fund portfolio portfolios.

much much higher number is the number of. fixed deposit holders in India now at. some stage people will want a more. credible option to just Bank let fixed. deposits so as the regulator in India. has many times said they want the puppet. bond market to be accessible by many. retail investors. in a lot of cool technology companies. who also made access to some of these. bonds to investors we believe that bonds. will play a very integral role for.

investors who are not looking at. volatile right but are looking at. companies with very predictable returns. coming back to them so we at some stage. want. both first-time investors and seasoned. investors who are looking at slightly. more uh curated options to come into. cherry and look at options Beyond just. simple Equity as an answer for their. wealth management needs so now you you. beautifully explained cherry and what I. can get sense of it's all about picking.

the right things doing the right thing. right in guiding about the right thing. to the investor right I want to go. deeper on the thing like what are people. getting wrong like why do you feel like. the product like this needs to be out. there what are like some of the myths. you want to just break out and be like. hey you know this is what is going wrong. in the world and that is why as a as a. platform as a company we need to solve. in future or maybe we are solving today. so from a consumer point of view as I. said we are seeing two broad set of.

extremes in terms of investment. Solutions being given to customers at. the very top end you've got some of the. best firms uh giving both advice and. access to products through different uh. regulatory licenses that they offer and. those customers are able to get good. quality advice or good quality products. at reasonable fractional cost but that's. a very fraction of population that ends. up getting that service or at the bottom.

end there are most of these customers. who are being viewed by these DIY. fintech players who are essentially. promising them things like great UI ux. Journey discount thrown at them but very. little is being spoken about domain. string when we talk of fintech it is. usually made up of two words Fin and. tick. the DIY Tech platforms the solve for. Tech somebody has to solve for fin also. because it is Fin and Tech is what the. right potent combination for fintech. really is I think we come from a very.

strong fin part of things and if we. embrace the right amount of tech part of. it then it will be a good classic. fintech part of it and by example of. what I mean is. when you take away the top end being. serviced by the large bands when you. take away the bottom end being serviced. by DIY platform it leaves a very large. portion of middle value of Indian. investors who could be first-time job. first time employed youth of India. people in their mid-30s looking at. creating wealth being shown right.

products and not just being thrown. loaded mutual funds at them at all. points of time. a huge part of that population we. believe and that's one consumer Insight. we have are asking for two things are. asking for products beyond the obvious. which is only stocks and mutual funds. and they're saying that listen we are. well educated we are earning well we've. been working for five six years give us. products besides just what is available. for everyone through these DIY platform. two in India there are two ways in which.

you can make products accessible you can. either make them make it accessible. through the distribution model or it can. be made accessible through the advisory. model so most of these investors are. coming and saying please give us an. option which is non-conflicted in nature. I must add that at this point in time. Cherry is not into advisory but at a. point in time we want to fulfill some of. these need gap as we move forward so for. customers who believe that they know. what they wish to buy we will give them. Best in Class product access using our.

domain capabilities for people who wish. to be handheld with the right licenses. at the right point in time we will give. them a very guided and a handheld. experience so we believe that that part. of Market is still missing so either. people are being thrown up on our DIY. Solutions or the full-fledged Wealth. Management Solutions is restricted to a. cozy View. interesting on this. you know. there's another question like backing on. this that a lot of people are well.

educated a lot of people are right thing. they would want to enable technology and. want to get into Investments right but a. lot of it has to be related to. the awareness and information about. what's going on because no matter how. good you learn about let's say one. technology one industry one company you. want to invest in one type of product. right something which happens in. somewhere in the world like some random. part of the world it can affect you as. well so what do you think like how a.

how this happens that something in. Russia is so important that India will. get affected or something in China is so. affected that U.S will get affected that. is one complication I want to understand. with and second is how important it is. for a normal retail investor to keep an. eye or just be aware about the certain. things which are going on and does that. affect your day-to-day portfolio as well. so look sentiment is a very powerful. thing you can correlate with any simple. example the day you get a very good news.

either in your job front in terms of. your promotion salary or let's say you. just made a cool uh debut on the stock. market as an IPO. or personal news you all of a sudden. feel you're invincible and you go and. Shop out right it's a very simple and. the days you're feeling bad the ways. you're feeling that world is coming to. an end covet is going to have it is. wreaking havoc in very different form. and fashion you try to conserve it not.

many people would have lost their jobs. of course unfortunately a lot of Migrant. laborers laborers did lose their job but. most of the corporates behave very. maturely they uh as much as they could. they kept people on the payrolls with. some pay Cuts Etc but it's not that. world came to an end so sentiment space. is a very important role and it is it. you can extrapolate it even to Greater. tomorrow if there is a world-like. situation and everyone feeling it's the. things are things going on. it starts affecting consumerism in in in.

in a big way so the reason why I always. ask urge investors to be very aware is. that once you are very aware you. generally get a sense of which way the. wind is blowing uh in terms of the world. affairs if the whole world is in an. entangled mess where do you know that. it's going to take a long time before. the world comes back on its feet uh you. will be able to gauge which way the. sentiment trigger is moving so a. sentiment and that's why subjects such. as behavioral economics has become so.

important to read that it is no longer. just a very simple temperament to these. things it is a real deal two there are. very strong reasons how things are now. deeply correlated something what happens. in Russia has a reaction through which. Russia stops applying gas to Europe. because of Russia starting to a stopping. supply of gas to Europe and Europe. approaching winter. Europe will have to switch from usage of. gas to usage of let's say crude for.

example is one of the sources of energy. for keeping themselves warm in the. winter now during that time when Europe. moves more and more towards consumption. of crude the oil price starts moving up. now when oil price starts moving up. a country like India almost Imports 80. percent of our energy requirement or. crude requirement through our import uh. this thing we we are dependent almost 80. percent of our energy requirement on. Imports. on top of that because the world is.

going through such a mess there's a. general tendency for people to move. towards Safe Haven and the in the. absence of a single Safe Haven usually. U.S dollar is considered the same amount. so now there are two things that are at. play first there is a pressure on crude. oil to move up and there is a pressure. on U.S dollar to move up as India as. buyer of crude you are now being hit. with two things what you buy. is becoming more and more expensive and.

the commodity that you use to pay with. which is Indian rupee is also depleting. in value so if a crude oil per barrel is. trading at let's say 90 dollars per. barrel. that ninety dollars now becomes 100. which means you have to Shell out ten. dollars more but each dollar which used. to cost let's say 75 and now cost 82. means that you have to give more rupees. so it's a double whammy back to you so. now what happened in Russia gets. correlated back to Europe gets. correlated back to U.S and gets. correlated back to India now when the.

Indian government sees this ultimately. Indian government runs a budget just the. way all of us run our household budget. you've got streams of Revenue coming and. your streams of expenditure going now. all of a sudden your expenditure Bill. shoots up when your expenditure Bill. shoots up that pushes interest rates in. the opposite direction where interest. rate starts getting getting more and. more expensive and that generally. dampens consumerism all over the place. Indians will start spending that much.

lower so I think now this is an. oversimplified. juxtaposition of what happens. but in general lot of things will find. itself coming back and linking itself. back so last Quick like two questions. and then we can wrap this up uh first is. what do you feel like because there's so. many world events happening around the. world and people are predicting that the. next winter is coming or maybe winter. has already started do you feel the.

recession is coming and it's worse than. 2008 or something like that but it's. just uh oh you're not in the prediction. game right now I have no clue I think uh. but what are the broader trends like how. can you see whether things are going. things are going to be gloomy or no yes. from the lens that I look at it you. don't need to be a rocket scientist to. feel that clearly it's not the best. shape that you would want either global. economy or microeconomies to be in you. just come out of two once in a decade.

once in a 50-year kind of an event uh. epidemic or a pandemic rather uh and a. geopolitical war which are point of time. threatened itself to almost look like a. third world war Etc so it's not easy you. just come on the back of uh two once in. a 20 30 40 50 year event. a lot of things will get reshared we are. talking of how World of work from home. how World of office will get shaped so I. think too early for people to open the.

bubbly and say that listen we came out. unscathed and there will be nothing. about it and the world is as strong. I think it's not as easy as that a lot. of Trends will get formed a lot of these. changes are more structural in nature a. lot of people are genuinely uh embracing. different realities to the world China. is one of the biggest economies second. biggest economy of the world is still. not fully open. without getting into calling a recession. or not it is for sure that it is not the.

best health that you would want the. global economy to be in and I don't. expect the next six to 12 months uh to. be anything but verbally to be anything. but news which will give rise to more. and more volatility this is exactly the. time where investors are better off. being very cautious rather than giving. into these decibel levels of by the day. or by this talk or buy that sort of. thing one of those times well let the. current pass if you are an investor just.

stay invested no problem if you're not. an investor fine just take your time. there's nothing is running away but I. think six to nine months global economy. India economy may be shorter because we. may we are looking slightly better but. certainly not the time to say that we. are looking at the pink of Health India. is looking much better than the world is. a given but overall in an absolute sense. the world has to sort a lot of its mess. out and it's making must look smart and. not for wrong reasons it's not a. coincidence that we are looking smart we. actually seem to have balanced inflation.

and growth very well and we are reaping. the rewards but uh overall bumpiness of. the world may have some correlation back. in India as well. interesting so last question and then we. can work it up like one quick this I ask. everybody one quick advice for everyone. every investor or everyone who's. watching this how they can create wealth. or like what is a quick tip just ask. questions just ask questions no quick. tip uh not your own podcast guys and do. what I'm doing.

just ask questions there's no shortcut. to it's it's a matter of money please. treat it with as much seriousness as. when a doctor tells you that you have to. undergo a major surgery I'm assuming. that U.S whether you are gen Z gen Alpha. Millennial uh or let's say someone like. me old age uh or not but I'm assuming. that you are not going to just because. the doctor says that you have to get. surgery done you won't ask the next four. questions of why why not is there a.

better order money is no different. please ask questions minimize. information Arbitrage try to get a. little bit more more insight into why. you are doing what you are doing after. that if it still turns wrong it's fine. then it's a great learning experience. but if you made a mistake because you. were playing for it anyways out of sheer. luck then I think you deserve to make. that mistake I think minimize. information Arbitrage ask as many. questions as you can uh if not first. time second time by third time you will.

become a pretty decent investor. one time two times three times that's a. great one thanks for giving that because. uh you know everybody wants to get it. get it right on the first go itself so I. think anyone who's doing for the first. time should go with minimum amount then. second time should go for again minimum. account and then third time if you. actually make it more like yeah expanded. like little by little don't go all in on. day one yeah all I'm saying is treat. money with as much responsibility and as.

much just because sometimes money is. easier available and it's easier to sort. of invest but a couple of things in life. is very domain-led your education your. health your money treat it with. responsibility and I think it'll be all. fine perfect thanks a lot for doing this. thanks for answering all the questions. and thanks for making me look Smart in. the end because I was asking questions. it was good thanks for answering. everything in including the stupid. questions which I asked you so that's. why I think thanks for doing this people.

get what they were looking for. thank you so much for watching this. episode till the end I really hope that. you will like share subscribe and. comment about this episode and tell your. friends what did you like about it and. what did you not like about it so that. we can improve and you can improve the. lives of other people as well so make. sure that you share this with at least. one person because you never know that. one idea can change their life your life.

and all of our lives in fact it can. change the course of the country as well. so if not for you if not for me do it. for the country do it for the people do. it for your friends and we're gonna come. up with the next episode next week it's. gonna be really important episode in. fact it's happening for the first time. in the world. so make sure that you wait for the next. episode as well until then keep figuring. out.

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