Shark Tank Fame Kunal Bahl On How To Become a Unicorn Company & Raise Funds | FO55 Raj Shamani

higher fast Fire fast I think it's. complete nonsense suddenly call someone. to your room and say today's your last. day like never ever ever do that people. have families they have children they. have parents to support you can't do. that to people yeah it has a negative. impact on the culture You're Building no. one in the company will ever trust the. leaders because they'll always be. watching over their shoulder at Mi next. in this episode of figuring out with. someone whose Visa was rejected by the. U.S authorities which forced him to quit. his job at Microsoft and come back to. India later he went on becoming one of.

the India's prominent players in. e-commerce space and has invested more. than millions of dollars in 200 plus. companies like Ola Urban company Mama. Earth and many more with today have. Kunal Bell the co-founder of Snapdeal. and with him we've discussed about how. he received his first investment of four. million dollars in just a two-minute. phone call things Kunal looks for in a. startup before putting his own money. what leads to the Doom or success of a.

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Kickstart your investment Journey. investments in the Securities Market are. subject to Market risk read all related. documents carefully before investing. what are you obsess about the most you. know that's a good question to ask. culture I feel just uh.

what I obsess about most in our company. is people showing respect to each other. okay right I think it all see at some. level we don't have plants Machinery. right. it's not like a machine you bought you. press a button it works the same way. respect to whether you scream at it. shout at it or love it. uh our type of companies depending on. the people completely complete like our. success failure. everything is dependent on the people. yeah so then you would want to make sure. that they have a very safe environment.

right and uh and safe environment is not. just physical safety it's also. emotionally safe environment and. actually that begins with just having. basic respect right true and mutual. respect so do you do you cautiously like. take step or like do something where you. make sure that everybody is expecting. everybody because you know sometimes at. different levels a lot of people come. from different pedigrees so when they. join a new company they have this. pedigree I am this person so everybody.

yeah we don't care you don't care yeah I. think. um you could be whoever it doesn't. matter like uh so do you consciously do. something. like they understand that everybody's. working in the same way so they have to. I think if you don't figure it within. the first few days uh. the problem is not with the organization. because we are so. homogeneous as a company when it comes. to things like empathy respect that.

you'll just feel it on day one right. like you are here in our office right. you would be here for two hours you'll. also feel it so it's not to do with I. don't think if HR has to come tell you. on your induction day that please be. respectful it's not going to work yeah. right it's just gonna bounce off. you you have to experience what how. people are treating each other in the in. the office that's what makes you imbibe. the same same feelings you know I have a.

question on this and then we can dive. into like some really cool topics is. so I was listening to one of these. interviews by uh Mark Zuckerberg okay so. Mark Zuckerberg says that every idea is. a billion dollar idea okay but which. execution May the idea which is going to. become a billion dollar only depends on. the amount of good people are joining. you because one person cannot build it. so it's like the number of good people. join you.

actually decides how fast or slow you're. gonna reach there yeah so it's very. crucial when you hire so when you were. hiring at the initial stage like day one. you thought okay I'm gonna start this. and then you decided okay I'm gonna hire. my top five people so what were you. thinking like what whether. let's say three or four. things in your mind that these are the. potential traits or characters or. knowledge skills which I'm gonna hire. for. hmm.

you know the first. few people you hire as a company are not. your top people in the classic sense. okay they are the people you need to get. a job done and you are very clear in. your mind what the jobs are right to be. done these are things that likely you. have been doing or you don't know how to. do it's one of those. and when you hire someone you do it's a. very task oriented hire so in the early. stages it's not about seniority or top.

people or cxos rarely anyone hires at. that level in the beginning. well one of the things we used to do and. we continue to do as a company which has. worked really really well for us is in. any position which is mid management and. mid-level and up they have to make a. presentation about the role that they. are coming in for where we only give. them a few bullet points that you are. going to be in this role. how are how are you going to do these. three four five six things. so basis any publicly available.

information about the company prepare. your thoughts. one thing we noticed is. it did a few things following that. process one it automatically uh weeded. out people who didn't have humility. because many times we would run into. folks who says. have they not seen my CV yeah you know. where I went to college you know where I. work so while we care about those things. we care more about you being a humble.

person where you should be open to know. open to the fact that you may not know. everything because nobody knows. everything yeah and and and so. automatically folks who are not humble I. would say or intellectually humble get. weeded out because we were uncom we've. always been uncompromising about this. requirement uncompromising uh it also. ensures there's some homogeneity because. everyone in the culture because everyone. knows that anyone who's in the company. has gone through that process yeah right.

so it's very Equitable in that way. and then finally what it did was ensure. that we could understand that when. someone was given a blank slate. could they actually have structure. around it could they actually think out. of the box because when. folks work in a very set environment. where someone they have had predecessors. doing the same job and they've created. the template of how to do that job there. are many people who are excellent at it. yep however when they're given a. completely clean canvas.

can they actually paint the canvas the. first time themselves and that's what we. would always figure out through this. process and in the last forever since we. started the company we've never deviated. from following this process oh that's a. good like that that's a deal breaker for. you he's like absolutely humility and. everything else okay one following. question because I feel prob like like. these are personal problems it's like a. personal question. when you hire people okay in the. beginning like and everything's going.

right and one day you feel like okay now. you guys are not a lying right there's a. time to like let that person go how do. you fire like how do you decide that how. do you have that hard conversation that. dude I respect you and I know that like. you are a good person let's say you will. be doing good but we don't fit right now. yeah so you need to go like how do you. fire how do you make sure that this is. not the right place now yeah I feel. um it's the toughest thing I think any. anyone who runs any kind of business.

founder or not a Founder right every. manager who's ever managed people likely. has had to do that and it's the most. unfortunate and unsavory part of. managing people yeah right or running a. business. um but but at least you know what we've. always seen is that the conversation. becomes easier if there is no negative. surprise attached to it it's a hard. conversation for both sides right let me. let's not get that it is tough for both. sides and tougher for the impacted party.

there's no doubt about it. however one can make it a little easier. make the landing a bit softer by making. sure it's not a negative surprise that. happens more often than we think. negative surprise as in like any good. you just you just suddenly call someone. to your room and say bye today is your. last day right or tomorrow is your last. day like never ever ever do that almost. everyone. but when you when you feel that you're. not going to be working with a person.

anymore you cha chances are very bright. that you've known that for a while yeah. right so why are you holding it back. right I would say there have to be there. has to be a time and a grace period you. have to give people to say Hey you know. I feel there's a disconnect in terms of. the expectations and the delivery. why don't you take another three months. and I'm happy to help you come up to. speed but then enough time passes and. enough leeway has been given and still.

things don't come through I think it's. important to just. um very naturally make it clear to the. person that there is not going to be a. future at the company versus making it a. very sudden surprise so that they also. have the time to find something else. yeah I mean people have families they. have children they have parents to. support they need medical insurance you. can't do that to people yeah you can't. just suddenly do that you have to take. care of now there are extraneous. circumstances where companies need to do.

that but even then you can be gracious. yeah right uh but those are usually. extraneous circumstances usually happen. once in a company's lifetime but for the. most part one can't uh one can't be so. unemotional and tactical about it so if. I said right expectation setting and. then keep nudging them for a long time. so that they are also prepared that hey. if I don't turn this thing around. probably I'll also have to look for. something else yep so that's another.

that's a good one because so you know I. was so I I read like a lot of business. people and how they they build. businesses so I've often heard it from a. lot of people that. that hey high or fast fire faster and I. used to believe in this as well like. let's do this but as the company started. growing and earlier like I was working. with kids like my age people like 20 21. 22 so it was very easier to like tell. them hey bye but now that I have people. who have families 35 40 42. it's so.

difficult like the fire faster doesn't. work I don't think it ever works yeah it. doesn't work I don't think it ever Works. Raj I I feel it it has a. it has a indelible and Perpetual. negative impact on the culture you're. building right where. no one in the company will ever trust. the leaders of a company like that. because they'll always be watching over. their shoulder at Mi next. you cannot create. a great business a great company or.

create impact it's not also about how. large a business you build like any. any organization could be a. not-for-profit also right doesn't have. to be like a startup and you know things. that are in Vogue any kind of. organization where people have to come. together for a common purpose they need. to feel respected they need to feel that. their voice matters they need to feel. safe that you know sudden decisions. won't get taken that impact them very. personally right and and if you take.

these surprises out of the equation then. people are people become far more open. and transparent with each other also and. they work a lot better with each other. that way so I'm I have never really this. higher fast Fire fast I think it's. complete nonsense it's it's not okay the. where Fair Way of seeing things and I. think it does make sense invest the time. before hiring right like yeah yeah I was. just gonna say this yeah I mean people. don't don't do the lazy stuff of just.

hire quickly and then say okay we'll. push all of these guys through a sieve. whoever you know. this is not a this is not how cultures. are built um. no it's interesting you know well let's. let's switch the conversation and talk. about. a lot of people know you for Snapdeal. but a lot of people don't know that you. are an avid angel investor and early age. investor is the right word I would say.

early stage yeah early stage investor. who has invested now more than 300. companies yeah yeah about 300 300. companies and when it is thought. but it started in um now 11 years ago. okay right so 2011. I want to know about. the first investing happen like okay. first tell me the conversation what is. early age investing yeah early stage. investing is essentially. you know the way I think about it is.

first money into the company okay right. this is when it's basically idea stage. yeah just one or two or three. co-founders just came together and they. are thinking what they want to do they. have an early idea they may have some. prototype they may have some just. wireframes or they may just have a. presentation right in some cases they. may just have a one-page write-up yeah. it could be. um apps like usually pre-revenue. businesses and early stage investing is.

arguably the most important part of the. startup ecosystem okay because unless. someone provides this High belief. capital. at that point in time when there is no. proof Point whatsoever the egg only will. not hatch yeah right and then the. subsequent rounds of financing which. venture capital and private Equity firms. do they'll never come to fruition true. right so. um at least we've been very focused and. we really enjoy partnering with Founders.

just when they are starting when they're. really at the idea stage. um because it's almost like giving birth. right like see as as Founders and. operators ourselves we can only be. involved with one business in an. operating capacity. but you know most Founders have this. Kira right that you know about ideas and. you know things that they can do but if. you have to do something really well you.

can largely only run one business yeah. right. um really well. um however vicariously indirectly you. can you get the joy of being involved in. other Industries other types of. businesses so so that's what we enjoy. and also. you know 11 years ago Raj there were. there wasn't much of a this early stage. startup culture was not there much so I. mean I remember when we started in 2007.

um this word startup was also not known. right like it was mostly uh you know if. you didn't get a job that's why you must. be doing this right it was almost like. AdWords selection okay that these guys. probably weren't good enough to get a. job even though they went to decent. colleges so hence they are doing their. own thing. um it's not cool enough yeah it was. unlike now where if you're not doing a. startup. right there there is a problem like are. you not smart enough are you not. creative enough are you not risky the.

people who ask all those type of. questions. why are you not doing a startup or at. least why are you not working at a. startup right neither was happening back. then yeah and um and but I think we've. just you know people ask me what has. changed in the last 15 years I always. say like what has not changed in in. India when it comes to a startup. ecosystem so 11 years ago that was like. 2010 2011. so in 2011 you did your first. early it's the earliest investing which.

was the first company uh uh Ola okay. yeah oh nice yeah so and what made you. decide that hey let me put in. look I think people will obviously. always explain their Investments. by by expressing how brilliant they were. oh okay in identifying this huge. opportunity around shared Mobility I. will not claim any such thing okay. um I remember I was at a conference.

and um. and yeah I was walking out of the. conference and there is this young guy. with a backpack standing in the. somewhere on the side and just said hi. Kunal. um I said Hi and then he said I just. want to have a quick chat with you. lecture I'm have some time so we just. sat on a sofa on the side and he started. telling me about what they were doing. and that you know they wanted to do. Intercity mobility and then they were.

also testing intracity Mobility but. still very early days 5-10 rides a day. probably. um and that was bhavish and and I was. very clear in my mind that this is. something uh this is someone we would. want to be involved okay with right like. it was just so outstanding uh you could. see the you could see the the fire in. his eyes right in the classic sense and.

and so we were very clear that we would. love to partner with him and you know. credit to him he got us involved in the. business in his first round uh that he. raised. um that was our first one but then. subsequently every year what happened. slowly a few Founders would start. reaching out to us through references. through Linkedin Etc and we would make. investments in a few a few companies um. and then by around 2015 this sort of. snowballed a little bit where we were.

getting so many inbounds that we. couldn't even we didn't even have the. time to look at everything and respond. to everyone and we realized that we. either have to stop investing because. it's you know not good on our part to. not even be able to respond yeah or we. have to do it a little properly right. institutionalize it Etc. which is what we did around 2015-16 and. after that it kind of took a life of its. own. um I think every year now about 4 000.

companies reached out to reach out to. Titan uh Capital uh for for funding. um and early stage only early stage okay. so here's a question what do you see in. a Founder like what are the let's say. top three things you see in a Founder. because it's very difficult to identify. someone in just one conversation so I'm. sure like you must have. like you know developed your own gut. feeling around it because at the end of. the day it's gut yeah see because it's.

pretty straight so there's no numbers to. look at yeah it's just so what is like. what are the top three things you look. at in a founder. yeah I would say in a company see I I. feel uh you know good judgment comes. with experience yeah and experience. comes with bad judgment okay so uh. uh having uh exercise good amount of bad. judgment Through The Years one does get. some good experiences so that you can. then exercise good judgment yeah. um and I think it's not did you have. like do you want to talk about any one.

company which you feel like was a bad. Judgment at the start at least or. something no I think I think look uh I I. consider any such ex any such events as. just learning experiences so I don't. necessarily hold anything against life. is too short right you have to keep. moving forward but I feel in companies. when we assess companies uh we're not. sector focused Etc quite sector agnostic. but. uh like we've done everything from.

consumer internet to SAS to uh deep Tech. to you know fintech Etc consumer. products Etc. um but what is very important is that. the founder should be really obsessed. about like a single problem statement at. least at that early stage over a period. of time the problem statements May. expand but in the early stages they have. to be like acutely obsessed about one. large problem statement like they just. have to be like thinking about it in the. shower all day long yeah or and all day. long. um that's very important so that to us.

for us is a deal breaker someone shows. up by five ideas by the way we were like. that when we started we had like five. ideas yeah and then one of one investor. we met say told us that do you think any. one of these ideas will become a big. company we said yes all five. um just pick one of them then. so so I think it's from personal lessons. also but there are three things we. largely look for in companies that we. would meet one is obviously the okay now. have they demonstrated some amount of.

success some proof Point academically. professionally so okay here's a here's a. question on this only that how do you. identify a team because in the beginning. there's no team right like team hasn't. found okay okay. I mean founding Team all right uh the. broader team I don't think investors. generally meet oh anyways plus there. isn't much mostly when we invest there. are a few interns outside of the. founders so there's not nobody else to. me got it so but yeah but.

um just you know are these folks who can. I visualize few years out they're. standing in front of a 500 person team. and can they continue to inspire them. right do they have that Charisma to. inspire them doesn't mean they're great. orators yeah but do they have that fire. uh around the purpose that they are so. deeply embedded in to inspire hundreds. of other people to work with them. because was you know building a startup.

requires you to instill people with. great hope yes right so that's very. critical. I would say the uh the other thing the. other thing is just the size of the. opportunity right needs to be. substantial it can't be some really. small modest idea I'm not saying those. businesses shouldn't be built but then. you don't need us to be involved in that. company true right. um. because we want to be involved in like. Market changing businesses right whether. they end up succeeding or not is a.

different thing but the starting point. they should have that type of ambition. um and and you know the best Founders. actually have the ability to get. investors to gaze into this crystal ball. with them right where they'll Mesmerize. you with what this can become in the. future yeah and and I just really. cherish those moments when I get to do. that. third would be the ability to generate. unit economics for the business right so.

um you know the unit economics of the. business which is essentially our. ability to make some margin on whatever. you're selling whether it's a product or. a service or a technology whatever it is. it's so critical because that defines. the soul of the business right. um whether a business whether it's a. squirrel with a tail or elephant with a. trunk is determined by the unit. economics yeah of the business it also. determines how the company acts day to. day how the founder thinks every day how. to think about costs how do they think. about revenues how do they think about.

which target audience they're going. after so unit economics are actually a. very important part and by the way there. are there's almost no revenue and no. unit economics to show when we invest. right but at least we want we would like. the founder to have a point of view that. what is it going to be a 10 margin. business or is it going to be a 50. margin business. because many times Founders will say. it's 10 today will become 50 percent. I tell them it will become 50 but it'll.

also be a different business yeah right. so you can't go from a 10 business to a. 50 business and yet be in the same. business. um so some of these choices it's like. when you're firing a you know a rocket. these are the those that initial. trajectory of the rocket this is this is. that because you can n trajectory will. take you to markets yeah and the 50 will. take you to you know outside our solar. system. nice it's a very you know so I'm I'm.

starting my like I'm building a new. startup and I'm thinking about you kind. of like cleared like a lot of stuff for. me and gave me a framework to work on so. I want to just repeat it to summarize. first like Ground Zero is uh a Founder. needs to be obsessed about one problem. because as. like young people trying to do something. I can totally relate to it that I have. 10 things to work on and be like. opportunity. right so we need to eradicate that and.

then come up with one that's a. foundation then back on that first thing. is you need to develop. a personality because your personality. is going to drive the culture around the. company and that is very important. because are you that person who has this. ability to uh you know Mesmerize or. inspire people at constant level because. initially for the first five years. nobody's gonna believe you anyway so can. you do that that's first second is the. opportunity in the market. how big is the market are you going for.

uh vitamins Market or an aspirin market. like you need to figure that out and. third is you need to from day one have a. point of view of how you're going to. justify your CAC in terms of LTV right. that's that's essentially it yeah that's. what we talked about yeah nice so this. makes a lot of sense and it's like a. very good framework to start with when. did you like when do you started did you. get your in like did you get any of your. early age investor who was the first.

early age investor who knows yeah I. think our early our first investor was. is a fun story it's been it became quite. viral on social media a few months ago I. wrote about it and. um you know our first investor was. actually someone who's many years my. senior he was a very senior Microsoft. executive he was an and uh he was much. senior to me so he had graduated from my. program at my college many years like 25. years before or 20 plus years before I.

did and I stayed in touch with him. because he had come to give a lecture at. our college and I stayed in touch with. him then I was working at Microsoft for. a year and then Microsoft had actually. applied for my H-1B visa which got. rejected okay so I was asked to leave. the U.S okay right and that's how I. actually came back to India to start. start our company and and I remember on. my I used to go for lunch once a quarter. with Ken his name is Ken glass I used to. uh meet him for lunch at a Thai.

restaurant near the Microsoft campus. and my final lunch with him we finished. the lunch and I tell him uh Ken I have. some bad news I I'm going to be leaving. the U.S in a couple of weeks and he was. shocked to hear that my Visa was. rejected and and so he said so what's. the plan so what are you going to do. once you get go back to India I said. look I'm going to start this coupon book. business uh which is how we had started. yeah we started the company.

and he didn't really spend much time. asking about the business model Etc he. just said one thing he said let me know. if you need any help right I you know I. was all at 23 I didn't really understand. what this is like you know this Tech. executive in Seattle how will he help me. he's never been to India also yeah so I. was like sure sure you know thanks for. your wishes and we went our separate. ways I think it came back to when I came. back to India within three months Rohit. and I realized that you know we had put.

in 100 of our savings whatever he had. worked for one year at Capital One I had. worked for one year at Microsoft and we. had put our 100 of whatever money we had. saved into the company and we realized. it's not going to last very long that's. when he realized that actually we need. some external money I think we were so. naive at that time now everyone knows. right like you need Capital angel. investor seed investor we had no there's. no ecosystem to teach you those things. so then suddenly I had a you know.

Epiphany I was like you know maybe I. should call Ken he said he wanted to. help so I don't know what that means. maybe just advice maybe Capital let's. ask. so I called up Ken I said Ken this is. what we're doing we're putting in. everything we have in this. um but we need more money uh can you. help and he said sure. how much and I said I don't know like uh. he said okay I'll you know I'll give you. a hundred thousand dollars and literally.

in two minutes the conversation was done. and that's how it started you know Ken. came to the came to India for the first. time. um for my for my wedding into in uh in. 2012. that was the first time he came so. imagine. this gentleman who lives in Seattle. never been to India has met me all of. five six times in his life wrote a check. all the way from there right. um I mean just shows that there are good. people in this world who who are True.

Believers and want other young people to. succeed and he continues to be an. investor right 15 years later okay what. kind of founder should raise funds. and what kind of founder should not. like is it do you advise that everybody. who's trying to start out they need to. put their entire life saving and. emergency fund and everything into one. company and then when they run out then. they reach out to investors or from day. one even if they have savings they can. go out and raise external Capital.

without putting their own Capital look I. think it's a very personal decision. everyone's situation personal situation. is a bit different so I don't want to. give like generic you know. okay right like I think that's maybe uh. being unempathetic to people's. respective situations. um I feel when companies start they need. a certain amount of like modest amount. of capital just to get out of the door. right Which is higher the first few.

interns get a small office space get an. internet connection buy a few laptops uh. buy some software licenses it all adds. up right it doesn't go into many crores. or rupees but it can easily run into. tens of lacks right and not everyone one. has that money lying around yeah right. or even if they have they may not have. just the. uh uh you know conviction yet to put all. of that in now we've often seen Founders. put some of it from their you know. family or their own savings and some.

dairies I feel Capital at that stage. almost everyone needs right that's. really where we come in. after that in Founders need Capital to. scale and that's where. a clear decision is presented to them. where capital is almost inversely. correlated with patients right if you. are willing to be very patient then you. likely don't need. external external Capital because. external Capital to scale up is usually.

to is front loaded to accelerate your. growth you know found a first-time. Founders myself included. we are like just want to go right we we. don't want to wait for anything right. like uh that's the high right like we. want to go for it you know move fast uh. disrupt yeah you know you're disrupt. like even our teams get a high out of. that right so I totally relate to that I. understand that if the founder is okay.

with it comes with a lot of delusion and. maybe as a first time founder many. first-time Founders are okay with it. yeah because it's their first time right. they're getting this great opportunity. to you know realize their dream yeah so. they're okay with dilution because. they're like hey I have zero anyways. right now right so okay I'll have five. percent ten percent of something really. large it's better than zero today and I. get to realize my dream. however there are founders who will say. that no I want to build it Patiently I.

want to own all or most of it and there. are two very fundamental ways of. building a company there is no right or. wrong answer I know sometimes a lot of. this Capital raising in capital burning. is vilified. especially in current environment but. look a lot of great businesses were. built by raising external Capital right. I'm not even counting the current cohort. of companies but apples and the Googles. and the Amazons everything they all. raise money in a different era and. different quantums um.

uh but it's a it's a very personal. choice uh the the way I see it and it. has a high correlation to being either. being impatient and not in a bad way or. being patient. so it has to be driven out of. a the market opportunity or going. forward to and B the personality you. have there are however there are some. types of businesses which you can't run. without external Capital let's say. you're doing some.

a biotech startup or a deep Tech startup. where revenue is maybe years out but. that business needs to be built yeah. because you are passionate about it and. the world needs it there you may not. have a choice even though you're willing. to be patient where the first product. comes out four years later but you will. still need the capital to sustain until. then even the network effect or apps and. like Tech like social social networks. and everything they need like a lot of. capital initially to build their user.

base and then one day maybe they'll be. able to make money that's what that's. what we are all made to believe but I. think because most of these businesses. in the world of tech have been built by. you know. smart aggressive impatient people. because they're impatient for Success. impatient for Progress impatient for. growth hence we don't know whether these. businesses can be built without it true. so what we don't know we don't know but. yeah you're right about what we know. yeah and it's so most of the time.

everything is driven out of Role Models. right so what you value is something you. get influenced by so everybody is seeing. the celebrations around everybody these. stories are out everyone's like looking. at let's say the jobs and the zika bugs. of the world and that's why everyone's. like okay we need to raise funds we need. to go public we need to do this we need. to do that because that's the only role. model we have in front of us anyone. who's going to change that probably. people will start following that as well. yeah the early age investing is a very.

lucrative way to wealth creation as well. and I wanted to point that out like when. you do. like when you do eight the early age. investing right I'm sure like when you. were doing only for the fun of it the. passion and supporting Founders there. was there would have been a different. why but now that you're a Titan do you. think the why is wealth creation as well. um. firstly I think we are we are very. different from.

a typical fund because we don't have any. external Capital oh we only invest our. own capital. we have tremendous ability to be you. know invest as much as we like invest as. little as we like stay invested for as. long as we like or as little as we like. right. um our bias is to as I said be the first. money in but then stay invested for 10. to 15 years okay 90 of the companies we. have invested in we are still investors.

in right over the last 11 years so I. mean because our view is companies take. a long time to get built especially in. India where the ecosystem truly really. took off after 2017-18 once jio came in. and the 4G Revolution happened. and. um. we we feel that we want to be partners. with the founders literally into for. perpetuity maybe till when they become a. public company we would consider uh. exiting.

um but our bias is always to stay. investment okay right um. and and so we are a little different I. would say and I think Founders like that. about us because you know we are voting. with our own conviction because 100 of. what we invest is our own Capital right. always. and. um. but but but but I do feel that uh. you know oftentimes these don't work as. well and we are always.

led to believe that you know this uh. early stage investing is like a lottery. ticket right and a lottery ticket to. Great riches and and whatnot. you know the success rate is abysmally. low it's very very low okay it is a some. would call it the riskiest assist asset. class out there okay right I think of it. as you know investing and partnering. Behind These really talented dreamers. but it is very risky there is no doubt. and there will be many many that don't.

work. it has become very cool these days like. everybody's becoming an angel investor. it's the uh it's the ultimate Flex oh. yes right these days for a lot of people. you know I guess it used to be a it used. to be maybe a iPhone or it used to be a. car or No Angel investment now it's. Angela I'm an angel investor yeah so I. started investing as an angel and. like who am I like nobody has just.

started she's like and I've I've done it. like 20 22 companies in last one year. it's a lot okay so my mindset was when I. was starting to doing this we do a lot. of brand deals right so when we were. doing these brandies with startups so I. was like guys instead of paying me let's. say 50 lakhs let's do one thing that you. give me like 20 lakh cash 30 like you. give me an equity because then this. gives me an opportunity to have more. money in future because what am I gonna. do I for my expenses I only need one. lakh yeah anyway I don't need so you're.

giving me 20 so rest 30 is better that. you give it it that way so it started. like that so first seven eight were like. that then we were like hey can we do. this completely in terms of buying a. space so you get like an ad space in my. podcast and my like you get a media. space and I get equity in your company. so it built like that but then after. like 10 or 12. I was like because you know when we're. starting in six months few of those. company they raised another round at 3x.

valuation of the 5x valuation so I. thought like it's very lucrative let me. do it more often okay. and then like the last eight or seven. which I did it was only with the view of. this gives in immense opportunity for me. to create wealth for myself but is this. the right way of thinking of creating. wealth or do you think that people who. don't have an expertise and do who don't. understand it in depth as much as let's. say you understand should stay away from.

it and put it in safe like mutual funds. it's a good question and again I I'm not. an investment advisor so I can't really. give investment advice to people and. everyone has a different skill set Etc. um see at least uh I feel that one. should not measure success in. of investing in these early stage. companies by. how much the next round was marked up or. the next to next round was marked up the.

key is to believe that are the companies. that you've invested in building lasting. enduring businesses or not and that. usually becomes clearer year four five. six. versus when you invested when the. company started. what happened generally in year one or. two is inconsequential because even at. that time here one two three. everyone is still hoping yeah that's. something. so and all the markups ETC generally.

happen keeping that in mind right not. because. necessarily Great Value has already been. built great promise has been built but. not necessarily Great Value has been. built and and hence I think one should. only enter investing at these early. stages if you have the staying power to. stay invested for a decade right only. then will you truly understand. whether you you pick the right companies. and the right Founders or not. you know I I I do feel though that uh.

Angel Investing or seed stage investing. or investor of any kind. um like I said should not be seen as a. lottery ticket it's actually a lot of. responsibility when done right right. um a lot of family offices want to do. this now yeah everyone wants to do it. right like I feel that's a great thing. yeah lots more Capital at the early. stages of Founders means we'll have more. startups. yeah like the we don't need more. policies necessarily right like we need.

more Founders we need more Founders more. startups to solve the umpteen challenges. and opportunities that exist around us. in our country and and make us proud by. even selling their products and services. overseas yeah right. um but I feel that investors have to. decide right where do they want to play. in terms of do they want to be very. involved but then you don't you can't be. overbearing. or do you want to be uninvolved but then. you can't also be unavailable when the.

founder needs you you have to strike a. balance like which end of the spectrum. do you want to be on but then you can't. be on the absolute ends also right you. can't just fill it shut it forget it. okay because nice so okay when does the. exit happens in these uh angel in the. startups or investing and early age. investing let's say a family office is. watching this and they wanna start. investing and they want to see it as a. wealth creation and then they also want. to see it as that they can help us in. certain way but.

how does the exit happen like when does. it happen you stay invested forever or. is there like you have a liquidation. preference like or yeah so like stage. three I get out what is it yeah we I as. I said we are a bit atypical all right I. think when when when there are funds. there were certain finite life because. they've taken money from. limited partners from from other. investors and they have a certain. investing period and a certain exit. period and then the fund closes. generally is 10 years give or take.

um so I think funds are a little more. regimented about these things as to when. they enter when they exit uh we are as I. said little more Evergreen that way that. we would love to stay invested. perpetually. um now that said there are situations. where uh we need to exit because the. company itself has gone through an m a. event where we have to sell our shares. to the buyer of the company or in some. cases. you know company may be going public and.

we need to we need to sell our shares as. part of that transaction so there are. specific events when that may happen but. our bias has always been that's your. buyer but someone who's who is investing. in from your experience what options do. they have to get there yeah so I think. one is they either you can sell your. shares uh to any incoming investor in a. future round okay. um obviously if the company goes through. an m a event you can sell your shares as. part of that you can wait for an IPO to.

happen that's usually the three options. and honestly none of those are in the. investors control so I think investors. should not get into this by thinking. that they can it's like a mutual fund or. a public Equity that they're holding. that you know they can sell it at will. these are high highly liquid highly. liquid right and so unless you have the. staying power to stay invested for a. long period of time don't put it don't. put in because it will ruin your. reputation and and ruin your.

relationship with the founder if you. start hustling the founder that you know. I need an exit it's been three years I. need an exit right now because the. founder usually can't do much about it. he'll just say or she will just say look. whenever the next financing round. happens it's three months out or three. years out I will try and make it happen. but I can't promise you and that. sensitivity any investor should have. when they're investing in startups yeah. it'll and if anyone then drink with. certain Minds it can ruin a lot of.

things like the relationship the. financial relationship the like a lot of. abilities everything that's insane so. you talked about that every founder. should have somebody who they can go to. and be very early candid about things. you have you've had people they have. like really been candid what do you. with you about situation so can you. point out any situation like don't take. the name means we like keep the most. candid conversation you've had with the. founder the founder came to and be like. boss.

yeah. yeah I think they're I mean mostly I. feel Founders reach out to me for two. things if I were to just look at last 11. years either they wanted an introduction. to someone. or you know some things hit the fan Okay. and like like give me an example of. something like really candid with. somebody I'll give an example right one. of the podcast I was having. and this guy with an angel investor this. entrepreneur and he invested in some.

company where they got raided by XYZ. department and the founder is like. middle of night calls this guy he was. like I've gotten raided I don't know. what to do next can you please help and. this guy like he was like my vacations. yeah look I think almost anything that. you think can go wrong does go wrong in. a startups Journey right like you have. to deal as a Founder you have to deal. with things almost on a day-to-day basis. that you never dealt with you don't have.

a framework in your mind uh how to deal. with them and that's why people like us. come in because we've gone through the. same thing and we figured out how to. deal with many many situations uh of. various kinds see my only. always ask of Founders just don't do. something that will bring shame to you. and your family right like don't do. something wrong right outside of that. almost every other problem that you will. face in the business will be solved with. some amount of pain likely but it's.

solvable right like it will be solvable. um but you know I feel that one of the. one of the things I've seen a few times. now over the last 11 years is. the being the. intermediate between either co-founders. not getting along or intermediate. between. Founders and investors not getting along. so I'm usually you know intermediate.

brought in I I would say that has. happened more often than probably. anything else I think everything else is. a little more tactical and does happen. from time to time. and we help to the best of our abilities. but this one is complicated right like. this one's very it's personalities its. context it's you know he said she said. you said. um and being able to. um bring people together. be cordial with each other problem solve.

with the greater purpose of the business. uh has been so critical uh at least as a. role that I've had to play so what's the. let's say now I'm giving a situation. what's the first thing in your mind like. what do you do is. you're close with an investor you're. closer the founder they both now hate. each other because they're like you. you I don't want to work with this. guy this guy's not helping me out and. you go and like guys we need to make. this work because you both are. incredible people it's just one thing.

whichever gone wrong right so how do you. make like what's the approach as this is. like I'm asking from a point of view of. psychology like how do you yeah I don't. hold down like two extremely powerful. parties who have their own Egos and. personalities yeah I think the key is to. check those out at the door as a first. step. so. um you know first and foremost in such a. situation I would talk to both yeah. independently right really understand. what the concern is first yeah just just.

listen just listen let them because. nobody's been listening to them that's. the biggest issue they've been trying to. say something that they feel makes a lot. of sense but nobody's listening to them. so I'm like okay I'll listen let me be. the sponge right. um and because I feel it's a shame where. companies go down because a couple of. people didn't get along and it happens. more often than yeah you'd imagine right. it happens when people stop respecting. each other when people stop listening to.

each other when neither of the two are. putting the effort to come on the same. page right and are just enforcing their. respective views on the other person. I would spend some time with each of. them separately and then I would say. let's now meet together. and I've seen that you know there's this. Airtel I had many years ago when I was a. kid it was this India Pakistan or. possibly India Pakistan border and two. kids are playing football and you know. they become friends uh or football And.

the tagline was you know barriers break. when people talk which is fantastic yeah. line for a telecom company so I think. credit to them and I've seen that over. and over again right like when barriers. really break when people talk the. problem is when people stop stop talking. and stop listening to each other that. makes so it's true that when people stop. listening and start assuming that's. where most of the things go wrong. whether it's your personal relationship. company relationship business. relationship any kind of relationship.

like it's just assumption kills you when. you're because you have certain factors. a certain things which has influenced. you to think about a ex person in a. certain way and you've just started. assuming yeah so you need that one. person in Middle and be like hey you. know what. you know all uh chasms begin with a. fissure. right every like big gap between people. starts with a very small headline crack. right and it happens in the best of.

relationships in personal and. professional lives but you've got to. tape it up right there so okay here's. the question like what. because you have worked with companies. and sectors across yeah right. there are failures and their successes. okay why does a company become. successful like what does it have in. them. the what's the deal breaker for a. successful company like what do you. think like I'm sure there'd be it's a.

mixture of 1 000 things and there's no. right or wrong formula for it but what. is like what are the top three things. which you feel that every company has it. that makes them great. it's very hard every startup yeah I. think um I think at different stages. maybe the answer becomes a little. different but I would say one thing that. a couple of things that tend to be quite. pervasive in successful companies is you.

know. um a great sense of purpose right that. is very important. where you know if you don't have purpose. that binds the entire company over a. period of time you'll see people just. you know drifting apart right because. you can't just motivate people with you. know Revenue Target profit Target growth. Target you you can't right there has to. be some broader purpose that why do we. show up.

every day in this space to work together. right. um and I think uh so I and and look. purposes tend to evolve it's not like. you know yeah day one purpose is going. to be different that's what I said that. at different stages it could be. different but at a point in time there. has to be a purpose that that's the glue. that binds everyone together. um I have a strong view on the role of. culture in companies. some companies Pride themselves in.

saying uh look we have the most. Innovative culture right uh some some. companies say we have the most. respectful or empathetic culture and so. on and so forth so knowing what is your. culture right is is very important. having one I think you said it well that. you know no culture is sort of the worst. thing right. um I I think you have to decide what is. your culture obviously a positive. something that has some positive. attributes to it. and then investing behind it day to day.

in through not through words because. words are cheap right but through your. actions as leaders and across the. company uh at any level in the company. everyone has to exhibit that culture. every day they show up to work. um and then and then finally I would say. is uh third is I would say transparency. I would say the best companies at least. I have seen are incredibly transparent. companies particularly internally where. they are always sharing on an ongoing.

basis what's going well and what's not. going well because you know sometimes. leaders can feel a bit. scared or insecure sharing the bad news. right while they may be celebrating the. good news every time right so there has. to be this balance between. um you know just being transparent about. not being too euphoric when things are. great and not being too despondent and. things are not and having this. equilibrium mindset and that comes with.

just and being very transparent about. um. that equilibrium mindset in the company. uh and and about what is going well and. what is not I would say these are three. like broader three broad attributes now. you know every but as I said every. company is different and I'm sure enough. examples can be painted about very. successful companies that don't exhibit. these three see you run a consumer. facing company and you I'm sure like. hundreds of people you have met right. what have you understood.

about Indian customers or Indian. consumers like how are they different. from rest of the world. because you've worked at Microsoft so. you understand like the U.S market a bit. and Indian market a bit Yeah I think um. how is India different than us. question I ask is is it. right there is always this people try to. say you know Indian consumers are very. different I always ask are they really. right. um.

every consumer wants value. rightly there's always that you know. small segment that probably is. completely. agnostic to what things cost and whether. they are value for money or not. but my experience tells me that. consumers seek value for money anywhere. in the world yeah now they may just have. higher propensity to pay because of. where they live because the per capita. GDP would be higher. um but I don't I think this is a uh like.

I'm yet to hear. cogent examples people say this all the. time Indian consumers are different. right I've never heard a cogent example. of how. right they are. consumers everywhere are the same they. all want. good products they want good prices they. want good service they want to be. treated in a respectful manner they want.

to. purchase products or services from. companies they consider a trustworthy. um they want to deal with people they. consider are good and and trustworthy. so I don't understand like why would. everybody would talk so let me give you. an example because I asked this question. a lot uh when you look at Western Market. right the Loyalty towards the brand is. very high versus when you do it in India. because a lot of things there are built.

on emotions because their security is. being taken care of so they're basic. let's say their social security their. health care their education their. education of the kids everything. security has been done that's why these. guys are more loyal towards the brands. who care for them whereas in India. because of its security is not that. strong like I mean I often joke about. this that for security we have to even. pay to our security guard in the. building right forget Social Security.

right so because our security is not. sure that's why we are less loyal. towards brand and more loyal towards of. a pocket like we want to save it even if. there's a brand which I absolutely love. but if this same kind of product or. let's say even a similar product someone. else is offering me at a five percent. discount I would shift on that because I. care more about my product than my. emotions. so do you feel that. I think that may is different in India.

while that may be true In Pockets. I don't think our country would have so. many large enduring successful Brands. um if consumers are not loyal right. because there is always right chances. are if you go to your kitchen in your. house. I can tell you that 8 out of 10 brands. in your kitchen would be the same over. the last decade maybe two decades maybe. even three decades right people are. loyal not only to consumer product. Brands they're also loyal to political.

parties right they you know so there is. loyalty there too. um there is there is loyalty all around. us I think the question brands have to. ask is are we given giving enough reason. for the consumer to be loyal to us so. actually consumers don't at right. because in some cases okay someone gave. five rupees less that does happen I I I. I would give you that. but I think that's a very small. percentage otherwise we would not have a. single enduring brand in our country.

Fair very fair now I have a question on. this like how do you make sure that you. build that loyalty like how do you come. at a position let's see giving this. example let's say. why should people listen to this podcast. with kuna like with Raj wagonal is there. versus Kunal going somewhere else. how do I build this or how do anyone can. build this I think you're doing a. stellar job already so but.

um. look I think um it all starts with. understanding what the consumer actually. wants right I think we sometimes we. start with our own views on what the. customer wants and then we try and push. the square pen down a round hole and. then wonder why is it not fitting yeah. right um it should start with you know. what does the consumer actually want. that's actually the easy part that many. people don't do the hard part is. actually executing on that requirement.

and. why you've been successful in what you. do is because you over over a period of. time have understood what your audience. needs maybe you are scouring through all. the comments and you're talking to many. of your listeners and you're meeting. your listeners and you're understanding. what did they like what did they not. like right that's actually still the. easy part which I'm sure many podcasters. don't do but you probably do yeah. um the hard part is then integrating.

those learnings into these conversations. and if you keep doing that over and over. again that's what leads to that. repetition leads to Excellence. right and that's what creates loyalty. then fair fair I was telling you a hard. part of this when you said like ask your. customers a question sometimes you ask. so many people and they give you so many. different things that it's very. difficult to identify the pattern and be. like oh these are the three things I. need to implement in my product or in my.

service to change that so do you have a. formula for that or it's just like trial. and error it's like just keep I think. you just keep talking to more people. patterns always emerge when you talk to. enough people patterns emerge right uh. it's and and at some point you have to. exercise judgment also you have to say. that yeah I heard everyone of these. things I feel these two three are most. important and then you run with that. then you'll see the but isn't it. Opposite to what a lot of.

our leaders say about customers that. like you know Henry Ford has did if I. would have listened to customers then. there'd be faster horses not Cars Steve. Jobs says the same thing so a lot of. and with all due respect to customers. right. let's say you are building a company and. you know the ins and outs of it and you. are looking at from a birth point of. view and you're listening to 1 million. people okay but a customer is only. looking at a singular point of view so.

his point of view about everything which. you're doing would be very limited to. what you know about the business right. do you think their point of view. sometimes also becomes an obstacle in. your growth because. you have to exercise some it's a fair. point but look I. there's a reason we still remember Henry. Ford after 100 years right because. there's usually one Henry Ford in 100. years right so I feel modeling companies. and Founders modeling behaviors over.

once in a century type founder I think. it's a slightly risky. I feel it's slightly risky I'd rather go. with the I'd rather go with the you know. tried and test it where the remaining. you know Founders over the over the last. hundred years how did they build their. successful companies I can tell you. there are while these. while these outlier examples and look we.

don't know what are the context in which. he said that right it just stacked it. just stuck it's become every quote book. probably has it in the world but we. don't know the context right we don't. know what happened before what happened. after we don't even know whether it was. him who said it or not and we don't know. maybe his mind his his mindset changed. yeah right so I'd rather work of first. principles and say look my job is to. Delight my customers I need to. understand whether I'm delighting them. or not right and then work backwards to.

say wherever I'm not delighting them let. me figure out a way to Delight them yeah. I think if we just rinse repeat rinse. repeat one thing is very certain we'll. start delighting our customers and that. will drive loyalty that's a very fair. point so you said this is like the the. last two questions I'm gonna ask you. okay. the first is like what do you think like. what have you identified in Founders. over a long period of time like in 10. years of their lifetime Jesus.

I think it stands out yeah. I would say the. I would say one thing right because I. think once you go into laundry list you. can cover everything yeah I would say. one thing which is. their ability to constantly reinvent. themselves. the best Founders I know. they have this exceptional ability that. every like I meet them more often so I. probably see it more uh frequently but.

every year two years they are just. Reinventing themselves again and again. and again and not as in like they have a. calendar set that time to think of. reinvention. but actually it's. them. they are so malleable in a good way. right and that they are able to take in. all the external stimuli that they are. being exposed to every day new decision. points new challenges new crisis new.

people that over a prayer time they just. keep evolving evolving adapting adapting. adapting right. um. and in a five ten year Journey you see. an incredible transformation and usually. for the better in them. the founders who do that. often have a high correlation I've seen. to building really successful companies. okay so do you feel uh let's say the. reinvention adoption also comes with.

constant learning and constant learning. I think it comes with humility right. more than like I think learning can only. happen if you have humility yeah so they. are generally people. who are very sure about themselves like. they are not insecure about their. opinions that they're always asking. they know what to do they are confident. about their opinions but they have. incredible intellectual humility they'll. come to people who they look up to who. they feel have seen a situation like.

this before they'll ask very good. questions. they often will not retort also right. they'll just absorb absorb absorb then. they'll take it back they'll talk to two. other people they'll absorb everything. and somewhere it'll become a part of. their bloodstream very quickly but that. requires when you have some amount of. success under your belt it's very hard. to have that intellectual humility at. the same time but the best Founders have. it do that right they seek out.

um these mentors advisors. especially for specifics how to deal. with specific situations. true and and the more specific you are. the better your. like chances of learning that thing gets. so where do you learn from like can you. point out let's say a book or a Twitter. account or a blog or podcast or a mentor. anyone. it's all of the above yes give me two. three names then yeah I you know give me.

one do you do you use Twitter to learn. certain things or no yeah absolutely who. do you follow like on Twitter do you. like the most yeah I I'm a. I'm a. um just very curious person and have. always loved just voraciously consuming. knowledge and information right almost. sometimes to my own detriment because. then I have so much in my head yeah. which I'm trying to process but I have. this gluttonous mindset towards.

knowledge and information. um but but I I look I uh I fall like for. instance one quirky thing I follow news. of countries around the world okay right. I don't totally follow news of India. right where I live uh like my question. is how like the question actually a. better question is why yeah oh yeah no. I'm like how was like a country updated.

no okay maybe I don't do 50 also but. many many countries I follow what's. going on I follow their politics and why. why okay so you. answer that I think that it's very hard. to explain the whys for some of these. things. um I think there is always this. feeling that you know we live in a. certain country we know how it works. um how do other countries work like what. can we learn from them what's going on. there that seems to be working or not. working. the other thing I I like in terms of.

topics I've always really enjoyed is how. like just a big big history Buffs so. most of the things I would watch are. something to do with history usually. obviously I'll watch binge watch the you. know some top series on the Ott apps Etc. but let me tell me your favorite series. um. I mean I always it's the usual suspect. right A Game of Thrones Breaking Bad Etc. obviously watched everything but what I.

truly truly enjoy is uh you know. watching documentaries about history. right history about civilizations why. did some succeed why did some not. succeed. um. uh you know right now I'm read reading. this book uh called the the lessons of. History by Will Will and Ariel Durant. it's just a about a 200 Page book yeah. just a stream of essays the dark blue. colors or it has a machine built on it.

the cover I think it has like a oval. yellow circle but it's just a very 200. Pages they have a string of essays about. lessons from history going back you know. hundreds thousands of years I find that. very interesting because I feel in some. ways the. lifespan that the humans have been. around is so short right compared to the. history of the universe history of the. planet and and also uh you know the.

history of civilizations. Etc have also been quite long compared. to our individual lifespans. and there's just so much to learn from. that right it's just I find it we live. in such an incredible time that there. are there's all this information. available that can make us go back to. the past and and learn what worked what. didn't work what like why are we the way. we are today often everything is rooted.

in some historical context right so my. single favorite topic to read about. watch things about is. um is is just history and going back as. far as far as I can. nice you know like so I was you reminded. me of nikhil kamath okay so I was I. asked the same question to him and he. said uh when you read books. don't read the current top favorite ones. or the top charted ones right read the.

ones who which have been successful. since let's say 100 years or the book. which talks about thousand years before. and then see like why are they still. relevant even today because that will. tell you a lot about humans in human. history and everything and that can. teach you more things than reading. something of today because they're. talking about constants right like. you know. you read a book today some opinions may. be expressed in those books. but people are entitled to their.

opinions but they are entitled to their. facts yeah right so the the facts don't. change history has happened a certain. way assuming you believe it was. documented mostly accurately it usually. never is but mostly accurately then. there's a lot to learn from those just. those facts not not the opinions but. just the facts nice nice so last two. questions these are the quick ones I. asked them to every guest because these. are the ones for me or one is where do.

you feel is the next big industry or the. next big opportunity for India which. sector which industry yeah. you know recently uh I went uh for a. health checkup to a specialist. um I made an appointment showed up five. minutes before. uh. and yet I waited for more than two hours. right there was no chair no sitting area. literally standing for two hours and not.

just me people before me were standing. and there were enough people behind me. also who were standing. and I have no problem standing in lines. I've done that all my life but it made. me also there were a lot I was not sick. it was just more preventive but there. were some really sick people also who. were waiting to see this doctor and it. made me realize very first I think we. know this and in covet we all saw this. also right like uh we just don't have we. have very affordable health care but we.

don't have access access commensurate. with 1.5 billion people and. I've been thinking since that day and. before also that uh but particularly. since that day that you know come 2040. right uh we have 1.5 billion people our. population has peaked at around 1.5. billion and then the the baby boomer. phase of India starts right India starts. aging right now we celebrate you know.

the youthfulness of India in 15 years we. are going to be starting to think about. the Aging of it yeah. and and I worry about. just the whether we are ready for that. right and and I feel in that probably. lie tremendous uncapped. um and and innumerous opportunities for. Founders where I don't know if you'll be. able to build enough hospitals but I. feel we'll be able to create enough.

technologies that hospital in those. number of hospitals are not needed and. and at least I'm very keen personally to. support founders. who want very patient Capital because. these type of businesses require. tremendous patients yeah right like. literally someone should be okay to stay. invested for 5 10 15 20 years which we. can and so that they can build. technologies that can potentially create. preventive health care because.

reactive health care for 1.5 billion. people I think we are going to struggle. in the next 15-20 years. that's a very detailed and a good answer. I think. it you just didn't point out like let's. say oh hell Tech is the next big thing. you give like exact guidelines so it. acts I'm sure like it acts as a. as a starting point for a lot of people. who are probably thinking about. something like this good so last. question of the day is how do you think.

we can scale what we are doing right now. like what is next for us like I keep. asking like how can we do this better. how do I make it bigger how do I make. this better. you should first ask yourself what would. give you happiness. right because I feel that we always. as Founders entrepreneurs always. want to make things bigger right because. we somewhere think that bigger is better. and better is more happiness.

and I always challenge because I get. asked this question by Founders more. often than you think which is you know. how do I grow my business faster right. in in their respective context and I. always ask them that we'll talk about. that but first also be very clear about. where you are headed. [Music]. um. I feel that you know there is this. I say this often this even internally in. the company.

um that you know there's this Chinese. proverb about happiness right it's kind. of funny it says. How does it go that if you want if you. want happiness for a hour take a nap if. you want happiness for a day go fishing. if you want happiness for a month get. married if you want happiness for a year. inherit a fortune if you want happiness. for a lifetime have a purpose right and.

I feel that Founders should just. introspect that you know. what is that purpose. that with which that they are building. yeah that they're building right. um now if for from for instance I can't. I don't know how to grow a business like. yours but. um. but you should just think about what is. that enduring Purpose with which You're. Building what you're building so I have. a very good purpose and a problem which. I'll talk about after this podcast.

I'll tell you like where I'm coming from. and tell me if I'm thinking in the right. direction or not just that like I would. love some validation sure but thanks a. lot for doing this and I hope you had. fun I hope absolutely I made you think. about certain things which usually you. don't think about and you give pretty. golden nuggets for all of us all our. viewers I'm glad that you did this. thanks a lot for giving us time thanks. Raj. [Music].

thank you.