Sanjiv Goenka On Billionaires, The Next Big Opportunities & Building Wealth | FO553 Raj Shamani

One of the biggest questions almost. everybody searches on internet. How do. billionaires see opportunities before. anyone else? >> It's simply because you have access to. data ahead of others. Say when I took. the power business, Kolkata was reeling. under 14 15 hours of power cuts every. day and so to me if you could solve this. problem there was an opportunity. >> How much revenue does it do today? We. our assets there are about 40,000. crores.

>> 10 crores to 40,000 cr. >> Yeah. >> Dr. Sanjie Goena, chairman of the RPSG. group. In this episode, he shares. powerful insights, lessons and. fascinating stories from his. entrepreneurial journey that can help. you build and scale your business. Tell me ideas today [music] which you. feel are going to become something big. Renewable energy in every sense of the. word. Solar, wind combined with battery. storage I think is a great great avenue.

I do believe data centers is a very big. opportunity and you see all the biggies. getting into data centers. >> Coming to your family now the business. is running in the family since 220 years. and it's only expanding and getting. bigger and bigger. You're seventh. generation right? There must be some. core value which runs in your family. What is that? So one is reinvent. yourself. You get into industries that. are promising as opposed to industries. that are sunset and be dispassionate.

about divestments. The second thing was. that you be fair in your dealings. and basically just being compassionate. So people who work with you not only. root [music] for you but they pray for. you. Tell me the story of how did you. acquire Sarajama? >> Sarajama was acquired by my father. He. was a very great friend of Baskar. He. told him.

he told him. dad said okay. That's how the deal got. done. literally a group. >> Does it bother you when people hate you. or accuse you of something or troll you? What is your source of information right. now? Like what do you read every day? Where do you get your information from?

I have a small favor to ask you. I need. you to subscribe to our channel. The. more subscribers we have, the better and. bigger guests we can bring and provide. you more value through these. conversations. And also the full audio. experience of the show is available on. Spotify where you can follow us and. stream and listen to all our episodes. as a business leader. Okay. One of the. biggest questions which.

almost everybody searches on internet. Okay, which is fascinating to me. It's a. it's a it's a very noob naive question. but it is what it is. How do billionaires or like large. industrialist and business leaders see. opportunities before anyone else? >> It's simply because you have access to. data ahead of others. you're you're meeting people at a.

certain level. You're in touch with consultants with uh. with the Mckenzies of the world and the. BCGs of the world and so you're getting. ideas. >> and then you have your own experience. and so not every idea sounds good, not. every idea is doable, >> not every idea is meant for you. >> Mhm. But because you have access to that data. and information before others.

uh it helps. >> What is your source of information right. now? Like what do you read every day? Where do you get your information from? At least the ones you can tell which. everybody can access. >> You know it's generally about actually. reading things. on areas that interest you. >> Okay. >> So you can you can take social media to. read it. You can use a claude to get. data. You can I mean you can do. whatever. >> But if you can keep getting data on.

things that interest you, something somewhere. will sound more promising to you as a. business proposition. and then you get a McKenzie or a BCG to. actually validate whether it makes sense. or not. Hm. So out of all the ideas, hundreds of. ideas you're getting, information, people you're meeting, right? They're. they're telling you thousands of ideas, right? Tell me top three ideas today which you.

feel are going to become something big. whoever if somebody decides to build in. build a business in that area. renewable. energy in every sense of the word, >> solar, wind, hybrid. The prime minister has now I mean it's. remarkable to see the brilliance of. Modi. Uh he's floated this idea of floating.

solar panels. So you're not consuming land area to do. this. M. >> so you're going to do it on water. >> Anything to do with renewable energy I. think is a huge opportunity. >> The energy requirements of the country. are enormous. >> and thermal will take you up to a point. So this whole thing of renewable energy.

combined with battery. storage. I think is is a great great avenue. >> Okay. Yeah. >> And the whole whole. thing the whole proposition that goes. into it, solar cells, solar modules, >> everything. >> each one of those would would. individually be very good propositions. So it's like say 30 40 years ago. start.

there's an whole ecosystem that. developed in Guram for all the. components that went into a car. >> Yeah. Yeah. So this is the same thing. for renewable. It's not only about just. generation of electricity. It's about. the whole thing of the the paraphernalia. that goes into building a solar plant or. a wind plant. everything. >> Okay. Is there any specific thing in the. renewable which you see right now where.

India doesn't have a capacity or. capability to do because you're in. energy business so you understand this. right? that one is building these large. solar plants, right, where people are. going to just generate electricity. But. then other is do we need junction boxes? Do we need modules? Do we need storage? Do we need batteries? Like somehow what. is that one thing if you can be very. specific? Is there anything that you. know? >> You know I think at the end of the day. you need more capacity on everything.

Mhm. >> So. you start with transformers, you start with turbines. >> Mhm. >> You get on to uh the actual panels, the. modules, the sales. Then you get on to battery. >> I think that whole area. I mean we have the capability but we are. not scaled up to the extent that we will. be in a few years. >> Okay. So I think getting to scale is.

very important. >> in any of this and you feel. opportunities in everything. >> in everywhere in every every of this. Then this whole thing about. battery. >> Mhm. >> You know it's not only about battery. storage where you can store power for a. few hours. >> Mhm. And uh but it's about battery per. se and that in itself is just such a. huge opportunity. and whether it's lithium whether it's. non- lithium I mean technology is.

changing every day and how do you get. into things into components into. chemicals that go into the back battery. >> okay. >> and that speed up charging that retain. or enable retention ion of the charge. for a longer period. Uh so I think all this this whole range. of products is nent. We are developing. we still have to develop.

>> I mean renewable energy yes but in. batteries I think a lot more needs to be. done. >> is being done. >> Okay. Yeah. >> So that's one second opportunity. >> This is two actually. Battery is one. renewable is uh is the other. I do believe uh I mean data centers is a. very big opportunity and you see all the. biggies getting into data centers and. the amount of data crunching that.

Indians are doing and will do in the. future. and the world will do and can India. become the hub for data centers. everywhere. So that's another very big. opportunity but I think that scale is so. large that barring an Amani and Adani I. think uh not many Indian players will be. getting into it. >> Yeah that's what like so tell me an. opportunity which young entrepreneurs. can get in because this is beyond. people's means at this point.

>> You get unicorns several unicorns every. year. I mean uh. but I frankly whereas I admire them I. applaud them. I do not understand this concept of. keeping on incurring losses. and yes if it's a finite plan for 2. years 3 years four years I can. understand it but you get higher. valuations and you take.

more equity to fund the losses but at. some stage you have to get into profits. right. >> so you cannot always drive the business. purely on valuations. At some stage it has to be self. sustaining and selfgenerating. So. there are lots of ideas and there are. lots of thoughts and lots of unicorns. and people are doing brilliantly. but you don't want yet another by juice.

>> m. >> you know uh so I think one has to be. careful enthusiasm is very good. enterprise is very good entrepreneurship. is very good. but temperate it with reality or. realism. >> It can't be just valuations. >> It can be valuations to start off with. and you can use that as a means to.

finance it. And this is a great great. gift of this government to. Indian entrepreneurship that capital is. available for any good idea today. So uh. urban clab does brilliantly with. electricians mass this that what a. concept but. they've built a model which is working. and working profitably. So I think at the end of the day within.

a finite period you need to have a plan. that gets to profits. >> Yeah. Do you see any idea right now. which can get to which excites you which. any young entrepreneur somewhere is. doing? Maybe not at scale but you just. understand and you're like there is. something in it. >> you know we are. we are looking at Ayurveda inspired. pharmaceutical. >> interesting. >> in a in a very big way. We we've we've.

launched very small without. Sharaba without hype, without marketing. yet. We've done clinical trials for. these products. So they are Ayurveda inspired. but they are completely herbal stroke. flower based. So no chemicals, no this, no that. So we are launching we've. launched. uh.

>> we've modified those into infusions. So. made it modern. with centuries of experience of what is. curing what. >> but making it easy to consume. and a modern version. A shiito paladi. coming in a toffee form.

so kids will not be averse to consuming. it. So. it's sleep drops. >> m. >> which are based on flowers. >> and I consume them and they are very. effective. So there are lots of these. things and this is one example. It. doesn't consume a lot of capital. >> Yeah. >> Yes. A lot of research, a lot of. patience. but once you get the product right then.

you can start scaling up. So Ayurveda. you'll think you think there's a big. opportunity right now. >> I think there is a very big opportunity. >> globally or just India. >> in India and across the world. But what. we have to do for the world is the world. will look at documented data. >> and sadly we as a country have not. documented the success of Ayurveda. >> True. >> So we'll have to go through that process. of clinical trials.

>> That's a long one. It's a long one but. if we don't start then we'll never get. there. >> True. So with 360 or you're getting with. Dr. Vya. >> So 360 is the modern thing. Dr. Vya is. the conventional one. >> But through both you're getting. [laughter]. okay. You know you I was reading about. you and one thing which. not many people know and I found. fascinating and I thought that is how. I'll take the conversation forward.

today. was I was reading that there are. a lot of articles and lot of people who. called your father takeover king. right and then there was another piece. which I was reading that you are the. transformation king like why and then I. I went in deep and tried to understand. that that why is that and then I was. looking at the carbon business the. electricity business then the s gama so. I want to go each business by business,

story by story and I want to understand. but before I go there you have. repeatedly just taken. businesses which people wrote off like. they you know other people called it. that it's a bad business you should not. go it it's in debt it's it's almost. dying you have taken those businesses. you have turned around them what do you. see that other people don't see. >> I don't know what other people don't see. I know what I see and to [clears throat]. me say when I took the Baba business.

>> it was. Kolkata was reeling under 14 15 hours of. power cuts every day. >> Mhm. >> As a kid when I was growing up we didn't. have electricity for at least 13 14. hours every day. When we went to. examination halls, we were given. blotting papers to absorb the sweat.

Otherwise, the the paper would smudge. >> And so to me, if you could. [clears throat]. solve this problem, there was an opportunity. >> So when the opportunity presented. itself, I grabbed it. little realizing that the effort. required to to make this change or. transformation would be enormous. My.

father with his experience realized. that it's a stupid move. >> Okay. >> And uh he opposed it. But my mother. said, "Let him make his mistakes.". >> Yes. >> And she persuaded him to allow me to go. ahead with it. So the process of transformation.

was herculan. and I didn't realize that. within 6 months. people expected the impossible. It doesn't happen like that. And then from you becoming a hope for a. cure, you became the problem.

[gasps]. >> because of you power cuts are [laughter]. happening. >> So you were not only dealing with the. fundamental issue of low generation, poor distribution, poor network, >> poor connectivity, poor metering. you. were also dealing with. the social stigma of being responsible. for power cuts. >> so it was about actually transforming. the mindset of the people. >> m.

>> in the company. and once we got our act together as as a. business. then about. altering the mindset. of the city. >> M. >> that listen. yes we took time we took 3 years or 4. years. but we got there.

>> and we are here to serve you and then. from Kolkata we went to Nida. From Nida. we went to Bharatpur. Then from there to. Kot then to Bikan then to Chandigar. and. Now with experience it's very easy for. us to do it. >> but the first one was difficult. So it's. about. introducing metering. >> M. 45 years ago.

many of the connections were not. metered. >> Okay. >> And the meters wouldn't work. >> Okay. So they would insert lead underneath the. meter. Now the lead disoriented the.

reading of the meter. it just spoiled. the calibration of the circuit and. therefore the reading was all haywire. So it was literally area by area, connection by connection. So we for. example said if somebody has 10 ACS in. uh installed. and assuming you're operating an AC for. 8 hours a day. >> so this should be your bill. Now then we. started mapping if this should be your.

bill your bill is much less. >> then we need to investigate that supply. >> and 90% of such cases were pilfering. So it was about. and the same people who were pilfering. saw you as a threat. because you were stopping their income. You were stopping that. >> Yeah. And therefore they were working. against you. They were working for you. to fail.

>> Okay. And how were they working against. you? >> So they they would uh so it was through. media. In those days there was no social. media. M. >> so they would finance campaigns against. us in media. and they would do this and they would go. into the court and. then they would all kinds of things. >> arrange small little protest protest. yeah and.

>> unions. >> they would create consumer associations. which were all fake. >> some were genuine but most of them were. fake and chamber of commerce would. object and things like that. So it was. not only transformation of the business, it was transformation of the mindset and. it was transformation of a culture that. you pay for what you consume. This is not like you you're entitled to. free electricity all your life, right?

>> But how do you change that when everyone. is stealing and getting it for free? How. do you actually set a mechanism that. they they can't steal anymore? And the. entire city, you're not talking about. one specific little thing. >> It was not the entire city. It was bulk. of the city. It was bulk of the industry. which was the big consumers. >> and bulk of industrialists who were big. consumers of ours at home. >> Okay. >> Right. Uh.

and and there were touts who would go. around. So we had a situation where a. tout came in met. >> and said. I'll make it 5,000 rupees my cut will be. 20,000. and he had certain officials of my. company on his payroll. So it was it was quite. like a. it it was a horrendous setup. It was an.

organized. >> It was organized complete. And then you had you said you can't go. and. you know if you're going on inspections, >> you can't go in this area because you a. certain community lives. >> and you cannot touch them. And so you had to do deal with all kinds. of issues. and it's taken several years.

>> Would goons disturb you? Because I'm. assuming if there's an organized crime, there'll be thousands of people on. payroll and there'll be goons. But you know, so. now I realize what my father meant when. I when he said it's a stupid decision, but I'm very happy that I'm in the power. business. >> Mhm. >> I'm actually happy that I took the call. when I did. Uh.

and I'm happy that I've been able to. make this change. >> Yeah. because it leaves me with some. sense of satisfaction. that there was a change that one was. able to do. What was the first change. you made now that you saw compan losses, broken network, broken connections, broken distribution, the entire city. stealing from you, industrialists are against you, there. are goons disturbing you. There are so.

many things to fix. Where did you start. fixing? Like what was the first step? first thing that you were like, "Okay, let me fix this." And then the next. problem, >> the first thing was really to actually. try and. get people within my company to believe. that this can be changed rather than. believe. So it was to instill that confidence. that this is doable. >> and the stealing would stop.

>> and the stealing could stop. So it [laughter]. >> like it was not certain. It was always. probability. It was a probability. because how do you know when it's been. institutionalized. >> and the government is as much part of it. as industry is as consumers are. >> Uh. >> okay. >> So you're you're you're fighting. multiple battles for each connection.

It was arduous. It was time consuming. It was painstaking. But. >> yes, we've got there. >> But what did you see in a broken. business? This company was broken, right? And from an outsers's. perspective, let's say first. you thought that okay, you want to be a. part of providing power and you want to. be in this business, right? But once. you're in the process of maybe making a.

bid, acquiring, you are understanding. and you're doing due diligence in your. own sense, right? So you are getting. aware about these problems that there. will be the community will be against. us, employees will be against us. There. are a lot of bribery going on. There's. lot of poor connections. Everything is. going on. So you understand all of these. problems. It's a broken company with. broken concept and nobody believes. So. broken belief as well. Now what are you. seeing in the business? Why do you want. it? >> So there was no due diligence in those. days. >> Okay. [laughter].

>> There was no due diligence. So. >> how did you decide to buy a business and. then just. >> it just seemed like a decent. opportunity? [laughter]. So it wasn't like. >> some exorbitant sum. So. >> my approach was key at worst. that was the approach. >> So that was the. confidence risk it's the family won't. sink because of this. >> How much revenue does it do today? the.

power business where it does a fair bit. >> What is it? What's the. >> It's a public, right? So, >> yeah, I mean our assets there are about. 40,000 crores and we are in the process. of building uh investing uh investments. underway are about 54,000 crores in that. business. >> Dusk crus. 10 cr to 40,000 cr. >> Yeah, >> I should look for businesses which are. like completely broken right now. [laughter].

No, but you know fun apart it was there. must be something fundamental you must. have changed. It's not easy to turn. around and transform a 10 cr business. into with so many problems. No, but it's. also about changing the culture, >> a culture of suspicion. to a culture of confidence and a sense. of pride in doing something that nobody.

thought was doable. >> And once we got that sense of pride. within the organization, then it became much easier. >> How do you do that? How do you talk? It. was about constantly communicating. within the team. making them believe. >> making them believe that it's a in. addition to doing work. in addition to getting recognition they.

will get blessings. >> and that worked for you. >> That worked. >> There was a I was reading that your your. friends used to joke about it every time. there was a night off park. Absolutely. >> They used to be like you're the you're. the one responsible for it. >> So I remember there was this restaurant. called Polynia in the Oberoy Hotel. >> and we had gone there for somebody's. birthday celebration. >> Okay. Restaurants.

We could go to restaurants often. Okay. So whenever you went it was a big thing. hoteler. park the whole restaurant was saying. here's the man who's responsible for the. parks [laughter]. and that day I felt like sort of saying. you know I wish I'd listened to dad.

>> how embarrassed were you. >> I was embarrassed and I was irritated. ated because I said you know damn it by. that time from 14 hours you had already. gone to about 6 hours. >> you were not zero but you'd gone to 6. hours so it was an improved situation. appreciate the improvement instead of. finding fault. >> but did you did you had a bad day that. night or you just you were like let I'll.

show them one day. >> I no it was neither It was it was. actually a sense of. wrong decision. Did I make a wrong. decision? You know, >> uh yeah. Is it worth this kind of. misaction? >> Did you ever feel that you are in a. thankless business? >> Yes. I mean now you realize a utility is. a thankless business.

A utility means you're there to give. service. >> The fact that you're giving very good. service. doesn't count for anything because over. a period of 3 months it gets taken for. granted. and then if you have one glitch then. it's a problem. >> Yeah. So. it keeps us on our toes. >> because nobody will appreciate you for. 364 days of electricity. One day if we.

don't get electricity 1 hour. >> 5 minutes. >> yeah I was like in 2026 how can we lose. >> but I think the city is. thankfully. very appreciative of what has happened. here. and uh. >> in hindsight yes. Yeah, but we do get. there are some naysayers. but by and large. we get a lot of affection and love.

from the city. >> for transforming this piece. >> Yeah. Tell me for a lay man let's say if. someone's watching it what happens. behind the scene let's say if I. if I switch on a light right now right. and automatically the lights are on what. is going behind where is the electricity. born how is it reaching me what are the. phases in between like. >> so you have a transfer so first you. generate power. >> okay where is it generated in a.

>> so we have our own power generating. stations you generate the power. >> Okay. >> Then you take the power. >> and that get generated through thermal. or solar or. >> so it's largely for the city it's yet. largely thermal. >> It's going to be over the next 2 to 3. years 50% will become renewable. >> Okay. >> But you generate from wherever. Then you. transport the power. >> Okay. >> You call it wheel. >> some vehicle. >> Yeah. So you have buyers you have to lay.

the wires. Then you have transformers. and you have substations. >> which modulate the frequency of the. power. >> and from there it goes on to individual. then again you have connections into. individual homes. >> and then it goes through that and then. you have a meter which measures the. amount of power you're consuming or. drawing. >> and how much of this entire chain comes.

from your company. >> here in Kolkata Everything. >> everything from that till the last. switch like every transformer every. >> everything everything so when we took. over we didn't have substations. >> we didn't have a full network which was. efficient. >> we didn't have transformers which were. efficient so it was a whole system. >> that needed refixing. >> what's the most difficult part of it the. generation or the distribution. or service.

>> the generation is actually easier. Because once your plant is set up, then. you only need preventive maintenance and. regular maintenance and the plant churns. out. >> Okay. >> It's dealing with a consumer that's far. more difficult. >> And is it like but dealing with consumer. that's service, right? So every time. they'll have billing issues or something. like that those kind of little. >> you actually have to keep constantly. communicating educating. uh and and uh so we had a similar.

experience in uh greater Nida where when. we took over the distribution. uh we didn't realize we were getting. into situations where gundas were. involved and so people came and took. chairs and. bang them over the heads of our people. So. it was it was quite horrific. >> recent like you. >> no this was several years ago when we. took over that today it's a very highly.

successful company. >> and in the UP assembly it's been hailed. out as an extraordinary example of. privatization. Uh so you you were telling me so people. were hitting and then. >> and. uh and so again it was a repeat but once. you've gone through one it's easier to. go through the next. but it's a process and from 30 40 years.

ago to now it's become much easier. because people are more exposed educated. They frankly want a service and 90% of. the people are willing to pay for the. service for the consumption. Right. >> So it's it's that mindset has changed. >> Fair. Fair. And is what is about rains. that we somehow still lose electricity. during the rains like something goes off. something specifically which is hard.

about the business in rains. It doesn't. work out. >> in our in the cities where we distribute. that doesn't happen. >> that. Okay. [laughter]. But in usual cities you'll always hear. like I I'm from Indor right? So there's. 247 365 days there is power. If ever sometime there's a power cut. it's usually midnight during the rains. something has happened. and people usually blame it that oh. because the weather was bad is. >> I don't think weather has anything to do.

with that. >> Okay it's just an excuse. So if a city. loses power okay now that the. distribution is right generation is. right servicing is right your systems in. place still there must be some black. swan event. >> where city loses power. >> you can have say if you have a huge. cyclone. >> then you can have a situation which. we've had in Kolkata where trees get. uprooted. >> and they fall on power lines.

>> so then the lines and snap. >> Okay. >> So there have been those situations. Uh we had Afan which was one of the. biggest cyclones that India has seen. and the Kolkata Municipal Corporation. did not have electric saws. So you could not cut the trees. Over 200 trees which were like 70 80 100. years old had fallen. because.

the government. had built. you know instead of. the mud and everything the tree grew on. they had built roads and pavements. >> So as it is the roots had become shaky. they had cut off the roots. >> Yeah. >> So the moment. [clears throat]. yeah. >> and they fell on lines. Now you have to cut. the trees. But the Kolkata Municipal.

Corporation did not have electric saws. >> So then again the angst came on us. We are not the civic authority, right? We had a few civic, we had a few. electric sauce. But so these are the. situations where you can have. if you're consuming your transformer, you've asked for x.

>> kilow of power. >> Yeah. >> And without intimation, you're actually. drawing 2x or 3x. >> up to a point, the transformer has the. ability to give you extra power. Yeah. >> Beyond that the transformer bursts. So. people have asked for. they've said we've got eight ACs. >> Mhm. >> But they've actually installed 18.

The transformer will not function. >> Yeah. >> It'll either burst or just stop. functioning. >> Yeah. >> And in which case then you have a park. and it's one transformer is not serving. just one supply. It's serving a whole area. So then the power goes off everywhere. >> So one person or like five people. >> can be responsible for something like. this. >> So the weakest link in the entire power. cut situation apart from natural.

calamities is the overconumption. It's. the over consumption without. >> or is it like some part or something in. transformer some loose thing which keeps. >> I see the [clears throat] technology has. advanced so much that it's very rare for. you to for the machine to fail. >> Okay. So it's over consumption. >> It's over consumption. >> Interesting. I didn't know that. I. always thought that there is some. some loose connection which goes wrong. in transformer that's why the. transformer burst and and then we face. all of these problems.

>> It's so us is the problem. >> [laughter]. >> We've had one power cut in our office. once. which was and we had to change that. office because then we later realized. that it was the over consumption problem. and we had to because our podcast was. supposed to go live at 9:09 as scheduled. about 7:00 p.m. The whole office is off. >> just gone and. >> but.

that's what for us it was first and then. now we calling they're like Khalifix. So now there were like seven eight team. members. I was not even there in India. and I didn't even know this is. happening. Okay. They didn't even tell. me. There were like four or five of. these like my my team members. They. picked up a system. They sat on someone's bike, went to. someone's house, connected the system. there, and uploaded the whole podcast.

>> But you can do it. But you know, frankly, that is an illegal connection, >> right? >> Going to someone's house. >> and you've done it for a particular. period, that's fine. >> Just for that uploading and coming back, that's fine. But this is the kind of. thing that people do all the time. Meaning. >> they hook onto somebody else's supply. >> But V2 went inside the house and can use. the system. >> That's why now. >> we not hooking. >> Close to 80% of our supply is.

uh underground. So you can't do all. that. >> No, no. I I didn't hook. >> But you you actually connected to. someone else's. >> like we went to the house and then. inside house we started a system and did. it. >> But if you have something like this, what option do you have? >> Exactly. [laughter] said this work and we like. the moment we got to know in our head. the first 15 minutes I must have cursed. everybody in the electricity world. because that's the natural reaction. >> yeah it's a very natur.

this was 25 uh not it was last year I. think 2025 this is happening. >> yeah absolutely. >> so that was the problem okay so this was. your power power company. When last time when we met uh after a. podcast you were telling me about Sarama. and that story has been in my head and. it's printed. Tell me the story of how. did you a acquire Sarama that's one at.

what price? That's also I want to know. and then C. >> Okay so Sarajama was acquired by my. father. >> Okay. and uh. he was a very great friend of the. worldwide CEO of. HMV as it was [clears throat] called in. those days. >> Bhaskar Merin. >> Mhm. >> And Baskar Merin uh was uh in India.

and he invited my dad for a cup of. coffee. and I don't know one thing or another. He told him. so dad came and he said.

so my mother's my mother was very much. into music. uh she would listen to music for about. five six hours every day and she knew. every song everything like the lyrics. everything. >> So she said. so dad then went and uh. in those days there were no mobiles and. phones.

So he went and met Bhaskar Marin. and uh he told him. so he said. he. said. so dad said okay that's how the deal got.

literally. and then mom was involved with running. it. but she was running it out of emotion. and not from a business perspective. then you it was those days records LPs. [snorts] and then it got converted into. cassettes cassettes got converted into. CDs Mhm. >> And we set up a CD manufacturing.

facility, etc., etc., etc. And we had some of the biggest hits of. all time, 1942, Love Story, uh, >> duplicate of, uh, Yashar. uh. to some some phenomenal hits. but we were grappling with piracy. >> Okay.

>> And there was mass scale piracy. There. was organized piracy. >> like CDs. or something. >> counterfeits. >> Yeah. >> Uh. and it was an organized thing that was. happening. >> Yeah. So I went to Arun Jetli who was. one of the foremost lawyers and legal. brains in the country. and I said.

he study. So he said let's meet tomorrow evening. at 9. So I went into his chamber tomorrow. evening at 9. and he said I've got this answer. I said, "What is the answer?". He said,

He said we'll have to file the court and. he says hearing but he says 100%. which is what happened. So that was the. first step towards protecting. our volumes and getting legitimate sales. or at least capturing part of the sales. that were illegitimate.

>> or by counterfe. >> and then. the whole. process got digitized and distribution. became digital. So then there was no. question of piracy or counterfeating or. anything of that kind and so that menace. went away. H but how this how does this. business make money? >> What's the way? >> We own we own roughly I mean it's about. 50% of the total Indian music recorded. or maybe 45% of the total Indian music.

recorded. So till the time T-Series. became a potent threat all the music. came to us. So all the recording was. with us. Mhm. >> Then we somehow for 10 12 years we were. absent from the music market. >> Why? >> No reason, no plausible reason. We said. we don't want to compete with. uh this and that. It was basically we I.

think had lost track. >> Okay. There's little ignorance. Uh and. then we came up with Karva which was a. tech technological marvel. and then we realized that the more and. more the Spotify and the savans and uh. you know the Ghanaas of the world came. people were not willing to pay only for. old repertoire. >> You needed new content. >> Yeah. >> Uh they wanted the old one but it was.

new which was. more relevant. >> Yeah. And then we got back into new Hindi film. content. And today we have over the last. few years if you see. the biggest hits are ours. Literally the biggest hits are ours. >> I mean take take the top 10 of the last. 5 years. Six would be ours. >> But how does this business make money?

Like what do you mean by owning music? You own the copyright. >> Okay. And then where do you sell it? Who. makes money? >> So you sell it. I mean YouTube. consumption, Spotify, Ghana. in AdSense revenue. >> Huh. And then you you you have the. societies the PPLs and the IPs which. collect revenue for concerts and. performances and then it's divided in a.

certain proportion. >> Okay. And what do you mean by concerts? So somebody has to sing you a song, they'll have to pay you. >> They have to pay us. >> So if there's a DJ who's playing, >> so that is not always possible to. correct. But therefore uh and now the. government has liberalized weddings and. all from not having to pay this. >> Okay. So but legally they were supposed. to pay. >> So if any DJ is playing a song in a. wedding. >> Yeah. >> was supposed to pay but now it's no.

more. >> Now it's no more. So anybody can play. but in a restaurant if you're playing. >> in a wedding. In a wedding. >> in a wedding. Okay. But in a restaurant. if someone's playing then they have to. pay you. >> Yeah. >> So they have to buy. >> So they pay they pay to the no. So the. typically to make it easier you pay to a. society. >> So there is a PPL which is a society. which collects and then an IPRS which. collects from. >> everyone and then distributes to the. music companies. >> Is it a big business just music owning? >> Yes. Yes. It's a big business.

just like just owning music and owning. rights of this or is there some other. revenue out of it? >> No, it's it's about actually monetizing. that music. I mean, so some. two companies have recently taken our. songs as jiggles for the ads. >> So they pay us for that. >> M okay. And. what is the biggest challenge in this. business. in the music business?

>> You know there is no certainty. that the music will be a hit. So for. every hit you will have five flops. >> So the predictable model is not there. >> It's not completely predictable. It's. somewhat unpredictable. >> But then how do you build a successful. business in this? >> So it has to be a portfolio. It's like a. fund in a way, right? >> Okay. Not. >> there has to be some thesis right for. fun to succeed. >> it depends upon what is the story line. of the film who is the director who is.

the producer who are the stars so is. there a higher probability of success. >> so Sanjaya Bansali is making love and. war that is going to be probably the. biggest film of recent times. >> it has Ranir Aliya and Vicki. >> so you have as big a star cast as Yeah, >> you can imagine. >> And Sanjay does things on a scale that. is unbelievable. >> and he creates magic. So the chances of.

that succeeding are the highest. compared to anything else. >> Mhm. Fair. >> So just that. So if you have to pay 50. crores to acquire the audio rights, you. say okay you're betting on Sanjay Laba. Bansali's creativity on his ear for. music on his ability to pictureize. on the stars who are going you know so. it's it's a combination. >> Got it. >> And his ability to do the storytelling. >> but do you get into this is movie music.

but do you get into then. independent music? >> Oh yes we do. I mean we don't. >> like how like Warner or people would. like to. >> Yeah. So one of the biggest wedding. songs of all time is our non-film album. >> Which one? >> A saj. >> Oh. >> S shaher. >> Uhhuh. >> It's it's now played at every wedding. >> Yeah. >> Literally. >> And it's a nonmov song. >> It's a non movie song. It's a beautiful. song. >> So it runs like a proper label. >> Of course. Of course. So we've launched.

uh this young kid couple of years ago, three four years ago called Mahi. >> Mhm. >> He is Shan's son, >> a brilliant student. He gave up his education at the age of. 17 to focus purely on music and he's. probably 19 or 20 or 21 now. Has the potential of becoming one of the. biggest music stars of all time. There's another young talent called. Arjun Tawar. who uh was the main lead for our.

theatrical production called Disco. Dancer. Sings well, dances well. So he's done a few albums for us. Uh. so a lot of uh I mean we've taken Diljit. Dosange and we got him to do a song in. Karan Johawar's film for which we had. the audio rights. Uh. and so there is a lot of things that you.

do. >> is with you guys. No. >> is with Djit is Djit. >> Okay. >> But uh. >> he's not with anyone. >> He's with Warner. I don't know. >> He's he does independent albums. I mean. Aijit has just done a single for us. recently. So you know it's. >> the big ones would do with everyone and. he would [clears throat] capitalize on. certain things and. >> but all Djit's concerts are done by. Sarama. >> Okay. And I was looking at some chart.

that. your old songs are suddenly now making. you the maximum revenue. All right. Why. is that? Like there are few songs which. specifically like maop. these songs are now their revenue. independently songs are growing like. crazily. because you see they're brilliant songs. and there are so many of them a lot of. kishor la songs do phenomenally for us.

>> like now it's why it's reviving. >> because retro is back. and. when you have reality shows like the. Indian Idol and all they are all singing. these songs so all of them have large. audiences so people are hearing them. >> and radio stations are playing it so I. think it's it's a combination of. multiple factors and we are promoting it. also so. >> fair and and a large part of promoting.

that okay at least in my household all. of a sudden this was couple of years. back so my parents because of us started. listening to new songs, right? But now. there's revived because of Carva. >> Exactly. So Carva has become the biggest. tool for retro music. >> and every home has a carva. >> Yeah. Like my mom has gone back to now. listening to only Latam Mangishkar and. she's like she doesn't care about our.

songs anymore. >> And you see if that's playing. and if you're around so you're also. listening to it. >> Yeah. And say my grandkids if I'm. listening to it they are also listening. to it. They may or may not enjoy it but. they start identifying with it when they. hear it and discos are playing it a lot. >> I have started listening to them because. my mom now exactly. >> and now mom's not even there then also I. hear like two three songs in my playlist. I've added which are old songs. So you.

know like I was um I had gone for. somebody's [snorts] uh pre-wedding okay. party and most of the songs that they. were playing were uh Kishor Kumar songs. yes remixed. >> but those were the songs. >> songs yeah. >> at the end of the day it's. >> was a. uh. was the one which was there you know.

Bachino. >> Yeah. >> So, >> revival of that plays everywhere. It's. from I don't even think that it's an old. song like it's our generation song. because it been remixed so much. >> Yeah. So much. Exactly. >> So. tell me about Carvang. how that came out. like in the world of technology in the. world of. >> so it's a technological marvel honestly. because nobody has been able to even. reverse engineer and everyone has tried.

>> but it's an old device like it's. >> the device looks old it's not an old. device it's a it's it's a completely. modern device but we wanted it to be. associated with nostalgia. >> how did that thought came in like start. from scratch like how why did you even. think of having Yes. >> So the idea is that how do you get how. do you revive your catalog? Who listens. to your catalog is 50 plus 60 plus. people in those days. Now it's 40 plus.

>> Uh. so they don't use they're not listening. because they they don't know how to go. to their uh phones and uh play music. They don't have Spotify. It's. inconvenient for them. How do you make. it in a way. technology proof? >> Use technology to make it technology. proof and make it simple. >> So that was the concept and we worked on. it and we got it.

>> And then how do you actually. don't intimidate them with just the. appearance? And my family used to own Murphy. And in. our conference room by some quirk of. coincidence there was an old Murphy. radio line. >> So the thought came up around that table. that why don't we do something like. this? So it's it's actually very similar. to an old Murphy radio. >> M. >> and so that it's not intimidating to the.

older generation. and it's technology. So all you have to. do it's it's it's it's not even the. click of a button. It's this. >> Yeah. It's it's rotating a knob. >> Yeah. >> Which is what they've done all their. lives. And you've created moods. playlists, artists wise, film wise, genre wise. So it just keeps playing. >> And so that has been it was a. technological success, it was a.

marketing success and that has. contributed hugely to the revival of the. popularity of the old Saurus. And it the. thought started with how can we serve. people who listen to our audience. >> Yeah. >> And make it. >> and then when we wanted to market it we. didn't want to spend too much money. because we didn't know whether it'll. succeed or not. >> So we wanted to make we wanted to do. social media and in those days social. media was just about beginning to get. relevant. So we we wanted to create a. film which was not a typical ad film.

>> It was a story. >> Okay. And it was a story we said which had to. make you cry. >> So we gave the brief to this filmmaker. >> Mhm. >> And he came up with this concept that a. husband and wife their time together was. spent. in listening to old music. >> M. >> and that is how they spent their retired.

life. Then the wife passed away and the. husband didn't know what to do. Uh, and he didn't know how to put on a. cassette or a CD or whatever it was. Then his children got him this karma and. he started listening to this and he. found his zest for life again. So when the first time I heard the. narration, I had tears in my eyes.

because of the way it was narrated. And. when I saw the film, I cried. I. literally cried. And. it took 3 months for the film to go. viral, but then it did. And because of. the film, Karma became like a hot. property. >> So the marketing was brilliant. And we spent almost no money on it. because it was just reals and the same.

things being reposted and uh people were. not sharing it for karma. They were. saying how sensitive and how beautiful. and what a lovely film. >> story. Yeah. >> And then by the process it was karma. karma karma ka film karma. So and most people didn't even call it. karma. They called it caravan. [laughter] They still do. But that's. fine. As long as they keep buying it, it's fine. >> Do you think I was looking at this trend.

in in western world there all of a. sudden now venile culture has come back, right? The old they're buying those old. like you can put out that venile and. then you run it and it it's it's. something which is becoming big. >> Yeah. But you know what's happening also. is it's something that's coming back to. an extent. >> like the vintage value in everything is. coming back. >> Yeah. The vintage value is coming back. but it's not going to become mass. >> So we are also doing some bits of it but.

it's not going to be bread and butter. for us ever. >> Yeah. And it's going to be a niche. And. does it is it also because India never. had venile at mass. So that's why people. don't even have a vintage value around. it. >> No people do. Okay. I mean maybe. individual households didn't but there. was the Sarpanch's house or this or that. which had it so people visit to it on a. community basis. >> Okay. So people are aware of the. concept. >> So we also did initially we went to.

different. panchayats and all and we gifted them a. karma. >> Nice. and. then people were experiencing what it is. and then people started buying it. because of that. Mhm. So would you call. this the biggest transformation moment. for Sarajama? >> For sure. For sure. >> Karma. >> Karma. And then now the next big thing. is getting into films in a big way. Uh.

with our investment and eventually 50%. stake in uh Sanjaya Bansari's company. Uh. >> why him? >> Why not him? >> Fair. [laughter]. I mean but how did this start like where. from where did you get an idea that hey. we should be involved in films and we. should be involved with Sanjali. >> So we we had started producing our own. films. So 26 or 27 of our films are on.

hot star prime Netflix etc etc. But we didn't have the courage to get. into big budget films and that's where. the money is, >> right? >> On a studio level production. >> At a studio level and how do you convert. it into a full-fledged studio? It would. take us 10 years to do it. So the next. obvious thing was to really buy into a. studio. >> And Sanjay Bansali is.

the biggest, the grandest and the best. of them all. Right? So he was always somebody who we wanted. and then I was having lunch with Karan. Johawar in London. >> and he said you know I'm looking at. divesting 50% of my company Dharma would. you be interested. >> so we got into the dialogue and we. almost came to a deal we. >> in fact did come to a deal. >> then the legal teams took over and they.

screwed up big time. >> so you The current deal fell through. >> and in. >> so Karan backed out after that. >> Karan did the deal with Adab. >> but in the meanwhile we had got an. approach from Bansari productions. >> Oh they already approached you? >> Yeah and because we were in dialogue. with Dharma we were sort of we felt it. would not be ethical.

>> to pursue that dialogue. The moment that. deal didn't happen, we pursued this and. this was. he was Sanjay is anyway the. I mean nobody can produce films like. Sanjay can. >> like every film is beautiful I mean and. and they're massive. >> but we can't compare like the Karan or. Sanjay at all they're two totally. different models. >> and they're both geniuses in their own. right. >> they're both geniuses and I have nothing.

but the deepest of respect for both of. them. >> Mhm. >> They're both very good friends. Uh we. are in regular touch. Uh and I really. have nothing but respect and affection. for both. But I'm delighted to be with Sanjay. [laughter]. >> And how did your first so first time. when the Bali production reached out to. you, how did that meeting or first time. when you met him? >> It was actually very uh smooth. >> Mhm. It took a lot of time but it was very.

smooth. because I think both were keen. to work together. and both appreciated. the value that the other was bringing. and neither wanted to intrude on the. other's expertise. So I think it sort of. worked out well. He has an extraordinary. uh CEO. uh very capable lady.

So. I think the team is good. >> It's. >> and I think we are very excited. >> Nice. Nice. It's Do [snorts] you think. regional cinema, regional music, the the. entire conversation around regional. content, do you think that's the future? Yes, we we are now getting into regional. in a very big way. Tamil, Telugu, Malayali, uh, Gujarati, Punjabi, Marati.

>> Where do you see the maximum growth now? Where is it? Like. >> right now a lot of growth is happening. in the Telugu sector. >> But. everything is growing and growing. exponentially. So we've acquired a. Punjabi label. We've acquired a small. thing in the Bjpuri label. I mean all of. them are growing. >> and regional music consumption is just. growing leaps and bounds. >> but any specific pattern or trend you're. seeing that this specific language is.

doing well like Punjabi just killed it. right now Punjabi is almost a global. music. >> it's it's really big like all around the. world. >> volumes in Telugu are very big. >> volumes in Telugu but is it consumption. is global or Indian. >> it's by Telugu. speaking people across the world. Mhm. No, it's not growing beyond Telugu. speaking people yet. Like how Punjabi. has gone. I don't speak Punjabi but I.

listen to Punjabi music. I love it. Like. the music is like the music is great. right. I don't understand ABCD any lyric. but I just don't think the rhythm of. Telugu I mean of even the South Indian. music has a lot of rhythm. >> Uh it's a different kind of rhythm. It's. a different kind of a beat. >> Mhm. Uh but there is a certain energy in. that. >> Yeah. >> So people vibe with the energy. >> I've heard very less of it. So I.

wouldn't know. But is there any spe like. you see Telugu or Bhpuri or Haranvi or. any other language which is coming up. and is growing beyond the speakers? I. saw Haranvi just started uh picking up. >> you know Raj honestly all the regions. I. mean it's a question of time before they. all start growing. >> globally. >> Yeah. >> Like do you think any any Indian. language. which will have its Spanish kind of.

moment like how Spanish music just. became the global music. It's no more. Spanish moment anymore. >> I think Hindi. >> Hindi is not catching up. with the. >> non Hindi. We've had an international. major. >> who's taken one of our songs for their. ad campaign. >> Nice. Who. >> it's yet to come? [gasps]. >> Nice. So Hindi is also making.

>> Yeah. >> But I I see Hindi music being enjoyed by. a lot of Hindi speakers all around the. world and just because Indians are so. many all around the world, we enjoy it. So we hear it in different parts of the. world right I've not seen like other. nationalities enjoying Hindi music yet. at scale few. >> but it's beginning to happen. >> like how Spanish became like how the bad. bunny bad bunny is the biggest global. star right now right and he's Spanish.

star he's he doesn't speak he doesn't. sing in English he sings in. Spanish so do you think we have any. moment like that. >> but you know now Hindi films are getting. consumed in China in a big way in Russia. in a big way. I mean uh you hear of films doing 500. 600 700 crores of revenue in China. >> Yeah. >> So films are getting consumed. It's a question of time that music will. also get consumed. >> True. Okay. So this is the music part of.

the business than the production house. business. Right. There are so many other. things where which you have acquired. transformed and you have done great job. with them. I want to understand what do. you see when you acquire. >> it's about whether we can get we getting. something. at values which are cheaper than the. potential. >> But how explain me this how do you look.

at it a business? So we buy say when we. bought a company like first source. >> m. >> we bought it at 400 crores. >> M. >> the bo industry seemed to have a good. future. This own company was doing. badly. So there was two kinds of. opportunities. One was improvement. inside the company. The other is. >> the industry improvement. And today that 400 crores is worth maybe.

25,000 crores or 23,000 crores or 24,000. crores. So it was an opportunity and then it's a. question of managing the company and. initially we didn't know much about the. business. We didn't know what goes into. it. >> Today it's not just a BO. It's not a. call center but it's also about data. analytics. It's about using AI to to. drive customer satisfaction. Uh.

it's about actually. becoming relevant. to your client. >> M. >> so we've just finished 25 years of our. relationship with Sky TV like in July. and uh we are now their soul vendor. So obviously they've gained confidence. in our ability to deliver value. >> and we have some very long-standing. relationships. We've been doing.

acquisitions in this space. >> which are either giving us a different. customer profile or a different. geography profile. And now we've grown. this business from being US, UK, India. and Philippines has grown all over. Australia, South Africa, Venezuela, Trinidad, Mexico, uh. >> all across. >> all across you know uh UAE.

uh it's just grown. and uh. So I think it's it takes a little bit of. time to understand what works or what. makes a business tick. >> but over 6 months 9 months you start. understanding that well and then it's a. question of just relentlessly driving. margins. >> and when you acquire these companies the. first thing you fix you find a CEO.

>> we generally don't try and change the. existing CEO. we try to if if the CEO is capable able. then we keep him. If he's not then we. change him. >> So why a CEO in an existing company was. not able to scale but with you guys. entering they're able to scale. What's. the difference? >> Motivation, direction, clarity, security. >> So it's all psychological you're saying. >> Yeah. >> There's nothing technical about the.

business usually in the in the first. >> you also need to give them a direction. right aspiration. So an individual may be satisfied with. doing a 9 to 5 job and. you motivate him and then he's happy to. work till 8 9 and deliver more. You incentivize him. You excite him. You know it's it's it's.

a combination of a whole heap of things. Do you have a checklist like these are. the these are three or five specific. things that you want to see before you. decide whether you will enter this. business or not. So potential of course. is clear not lossm that's also clear not. severely indebted I'm I'm a very data. averse person so cash flows. >> the product itself the future the. competition.

>> so you wouldn't do because we. established that in the beginning also. but you wouldn't do heavy valuation. business which might generate cash one. day. >> because I can create similar values and. cash flows. with other opportunities. There's no. shortage of opportunities today. But. haven't you seen these large technology. businesses? They have they've gotten built because. they were not profit generating for 10,

15, 20 years. >> But you need those kind of pockets to. sustain them as well. >> M. so you wouldn't invest like a VC in. somebody. >> We do. M. >> so we've got a fund. >> which [clears throat] is doing not. startups but second stage startups. >> So it's a small fund below 1,000 crores. at this stage but it's doing exceedingly. well. Uh. so I think we seven or eight times.

mark to market from our investment. values. >> Nice. >> So we do things like this at a family. level. We do invest. So we've got. investments in preIPO companies. uh. one of whom was going to go to the. markets and then yanked the IPO. So at a. family office level we doing uh a lot of. all this kind of stuff. but from a corporate perspective I also. have to. the one bet I took for the long term and.

it's taking longer than long was FMCG. >> Now our losses are down to single digits. in a month. M. >> so that's a very strong improvement but. it will still take me 3 years to start. making money so it's been a very long. bet. >> m. >> so you know I'm. >> but are you optimistic on FM3G. >> now yes now I think we've got it right. >> you lost hope in middle. >> I didn't lose hope it was you see.

guilt-free. was a very narrow segment to be in. >> better for you is a much better segment. because it's not guiltree. >> but it's less guilt. >> So it's 40% less trans fat. It's not fat. free. >> Yeah. >> For example. >> So you're with 2 Yam you're changing. this. >> So 2 Yam is is getting traction now. Uh. the product is doing well. It's very. well accepted. Uh. >> what did you get wrong about 2 Yam in.

the beginning? >> It was too narrow. Uh it was too niche. and narrow a product segment. >> But you didn't see it that time that it. would be. We didn't realize it. >> You thought it'll be big enough. We didn't know enough to know that it. was a again it was a McKenzie. le initiative. and I think even they didn't realize. that this is going to be so niche. because the thing was that health.

fitness. well-being is a major thing and. therefore this will work very well. So. it got eyeballs. >> Mhm. >> But a macana gets only consumed so much, right? >> Yeah. >> Or a kakra gets consumed only so much. And those who consume kakra and want the. authentic kakra, not a factory kakra. So. those were things that we discovered. >> There was not enough of macana. plantation.

So to source macana was a problem. It's. very freight intensive. and we were away. We were into niche. products. So until you have a mass product, >> it doesn't really give you. volume. And if you don't have volume and. scale, distributors don't treat you with. the same kind of attention and respect. That's why we got into chips. >> and that's doing exceedingly well and. that's driven the whole thing up. >> and now that's working out.

Tell me one specific. transformation or one acquisition or one. industry where you got it wrong. >> Well, we acquired uh this chemical. company called Aquaarm. >> Okay. >> Uh it was an expensive acquisition. and we went with our philosophy of. retaining the entire management. It was. a familyrun company. We didn't realize. that large sections of the family were.

actually running each section. And so when the family went out of. management, the so-called professionals people. were not capable enough. >> Mhm. >> And it took us a year to realize that. So we lost business that one year. >> So there was no point to revive that. >> No, no, it's on the path of revival now. Mhm. >> But we lost about 12 months to realize. it and then to recruit people it's taken.

us about 7 8 months. >> M. >> and you know now it's on the path to. revival. >> but what industry or what specific. business? >> So that's chemical. So it's it's that's. phosphonates. >> Okay. And. >> but it's reviving. So reviving that. long-term failure. Third largest. producer of phosphonates in the world. >> So. >> so that's a big company. It's a big. company, >> but we messed it up honestly. >> because they acquired a familyun. business and then they. >> we didn't realize that in a familyun.

business the family is so involved. that you don't have professional. management. We had acquired. professionally managed or multinational. owned companies and there the. professional management in each case was. good. >> What would be your biggest crisis moment. in life where you turned around. something from crisis? >> [sighs]. >> Several several but I think. >> give me two biggest. and tell me the exact story. What was. the crisis? What happened? What did you. do? How did it turn out? >> So the biggest was where.

our competitor in the Kolkata power. distribution business was our regulator. That was. the state electricity board was the. regulator and they were competing with. us. >> The power minister didn't like my father. and he didn't like me. He had said one of he was a vice. chancellor of the Jadapur University.

and he said that a certain student of. his who was working in the company. should become managing director. M. >> and I was a kid and I told him I said. sir but then he will not work for me. he'll work for you. >> so why would I do that quite apart from. the fact that he was not capable of. being the number one person in in the. company good capable individual but not. for that position.

>> Yeah. >> So he was annoyed. Then he said you have to back down your. stations. and you have to buy from the state. electricity board. So. then there was a penalty for not being. at 80% plant load factor. Now you can be. at 80% plant load factor but he's. forcing you to back down to 30%. >> You have to buy from the state lexity.

board at a rupee higher than your cost. of generation. And then he's saying you're inefficient. Your plant is operating at 30%. So you're an inefficient operator. We are buying forced to buy from the. state electricity board at higher rates. And he saying your rates are higher. So it was a. and in those days it was the late '9s.

the approach was that don't confront. or don't take a panga with the. government. >> Mhm. >> So they kept giving statement after. statement after statement after. statement and we were not giving the. facts. >> So we went to court. >> So we won at the Kolkata High Court. Then the industry lobby bat chamber and. the jute lobby Indian jute manufacturers.

association. went against us to the supreme court. >> We won there. Then the same industry. lobbies. went against us and said that it has to. go to a division bench of the Supreme. Court. We won there. and that period was an intensely. difficult period. because. it was the might of the whole Bengal.

industry. >> which was working against us plus the. Bengal government. >> through the power minister. >> and then how did it get solved then? >> Because we when the courts Yeah. High. Court, Supreme Court, then Supreme. Court, division bench. So that period of. five years was very stressful. >> Did you think at any point you'll be. done? >> You know, at that point in time, I was. not I I wouldn't have got a buyer. otherwise I was at the point where I.

said, "Let me sell it.". >> But you thought that you like this. business is done. It's finished. >> I didn't think the business was. finished. I just didn't think it was. worth that effort and that pain and that. trauma. Uh in hindsight it was but at that point. in time I definitely felt it wasn't. >> So do you thank God that thank God we. didn't find a buyer today [laughter]. that day? >> We did look for a buyer because I we.

believe we would not find a buyer. >> Okay. >> So whether we would have or we would not. have we don't know. And can you very. naive question can someone with so much. power money billions of dollars change a. minister? >> I don't think it's. >> that easy. >> It's not easy. >> You can't get the elected person changed. >> elected or unelected. I mean we couldn't. we didn't manage.

We didn't succeed in doing anything like. this. Have you seen in India that with. money you can support a political party. and actually turn around the narratives. purely with money. not saying and you have to undermine the. capabilities of a politician you know. you have to make a distinction between. Narendra Modi's India and the India. before that. Narendra Modi's India it is not possible.

You have to be efficient. You have to be. contributing towards the sector that. you're in. And he has transformed India. It's become transparent. It's become. efficient. It's become competitive. It's. across the world. People look at India. with dignity, respect. And that is. because of Narendai. >> because of the way our prime minister.

has. led the country. So I think today's world I don't think. it's possible at all. In the past I don't know. I was maybe. too young, maybe too naive to understand. it. I can't really say. But there like how in. how when we read or at least what we've. been reading since we were kids on.

random tabloids and random people. creating content that it's so easy to. lobby and just change ministers by. supporting XYZ person. >> You know today social media also a false. narrative. >> Yeah. >> can be sponsored. >> Mhm. And you know it spreads and. particularly negativity spreads because. people. love consuming that kind of. >> uh reel or uh bite or whatever it is.

>> But you know I think these things remain. for a short period. eventually the truths and reality. prevails. >> Do you get political pressure? You are. you are in a state where. >> did we get political pressure? Yes. >> Do we get political pressure? No. >> Okay. [laughter].

>> Okay. Coming to your family now. Okay. I. want to understand I last podcast also. you know I asked you this in our. off- camerara conversation also I asked. you this that this. years of legacy hundreds of years how. 200 years. >> yeah 220. >> 220 years. the business is running in the family. since 220 years and it's only expanding.

and getting bigger and bigger. Majority [clears throat] businesses they. don't last up to second or third. generation. [snorts]. right. I mean. >> someone up there is blessing us. >> but it's you guys were there. when we were not even a democratic India. then democratic India then governments. kept changing then emergency happened.

then There was a time where we didn't. know who is becoming prime minister. Right. From that to now stability like. you've seen phases and from one. generation to another to another to. another. You're seventh generation. right? >> Yeah. >> Seventh. there must be some. core principle or core value which runs. in your family. What is that? What are. like two or three ingredients which you. have learned from your parents or.

grandparents and you have to make it a. point that you teach it to your kids as. well so the business just keeps going. >> So one is. reinvent yourself and don't be emotional. about getting out of businesses which. are not going to be relevant. >> Okay. >> So we started off as bankers to the East. India Company. then went into joot textiles tea. >> bankers.

>> Yeah, we were bankers to the East India. Company. Hind commercial bank used to. belong to my family. Then got into Jude. textile tea. then into carbon black. >> then into tires. >> then into electricity. then into. technology. you know, and it just kept you keep. changing your portfolio with time.

So, you get into industries that are. promising as opposed to industries that. are sunset. >> And be dispassionate about divestments. >> Uh so that is one thing that's ingrained. into us. >> like don't be emotional about business. >> Don't be emotional about business. The second thing was that. you be fair in your dealings.

I think if you are fair in your dealings. at some stage. there is some kind of a credit balance. in. uh you know some books. someone's eyes. >> you know uh so I think fairness of. dealing. >> uh was important [clears throat].

>> and basically just being compassionate. So people who work with you, who work. for you, not only root for you, but they pray for. you. >> Have you ever taken a decision based on. emotions? Because that's a core value that you've. learned from your parents, not be. emotional. But I'm sure you must have. done it. I think uh.

we invested in building a school here. which is now the city's best school. Yes, there was a need for a school. but it was about. giving back to society. The family has been here for 220 years. It's high time we give back something to. society and build something that's world. class international. So.

the school makes money but we are very. clear that we've invested 500 crores in. that project. We are not going to take. back anything out of the school. Everything will go back into the school. into developing the school into building. the school. The hospital. is Kolkata's number one hospital. We are. building virtually a new hospital in the. same premises. That is again an emotional decision. The hospital will make money. It's it's.

a profitable business. >> But we are not taking dividends. We are. not. >> you know. So it's about these are things. like you give back to society. The mall. that we have. >> Kolkata didn't have a single mall worth. its name. So we said let's have a mall which has. international brands. and almost everyone we spoke with. including consultants including property.

dealers property consultants the JLS of. the world and whatever they all said. luxury. now that mall does exceedingly well but. these were emotionbased decisions. >> setting up management institutes. emotion based decision ations. getting into media. was emotion based. >> Why? >> It's a good business but it was also a. lot of emotion that went into that.

decision. So it wasn't so for the major businesses. it wasn't but say Hook Global. >> today is doing exceedingly well. >> uh it's got 10 million subscribers or. whatever. >> paid subscribers. >> paid so. and that two in the space of a short. space of maybe a year year and a half. So yes, the idea was to get into media,

but was it purely commercial? No, it was a combination of. the business of media and the emotion of. media. >> Interesting. Why do you think Kolkata. has lost the plot? >> Because of 49 years we had a we have had. successive governments which have not. worked. A simple answer. >> That's it. >> That's it. >> Because they were not pro business.

governments. >> They're neither pro business, they. neither prodevelopment, they're neither. pro city because they've not invested. anything in the roads, in the. infrastructure, in anything. >> Do you feel this government is going to. be pro business? >> Oh yes. Not only pro business, but I. think you can already see changes. You. can see development beginning to happen. You can see projects beginning to. happen. You can see, you can sort of smell.

development, >> progress and changes coming. >> But don't you think when a city or a. state goes through 4950 years of. a similar kind of thought process, right? Then the entire government. offices like small small people from the. root roots till the top everybody starts. thinking that that culture become that. So somebody coming at top can't change. it overnight. No, >> but you see there's been a massive. change.

in the administration as well. And. I think the BJP has a track record of. delivering on development. and infrastructure growth. >> M. >> and you can already see that beginning. to happen. You can see the change in the. administration and their attitude. How. were you able to go from when you took. over the business? It was when you. joined the business, it was 4,000. crores. >> When I inherited the business, yeah, it.

was 4,000. >> 4,000 crores, right? And today is more. than 1 lakh crores. >> Yeah. >> So from 4,000 crores to 1 lakh crores. That's marvelous. How did you transform this? How did you. grow from 4,000 cr to one lakh cr in a. state which was not prodevelopment? So. my investments so far have not really. been in the state. >> They've been outside the state. I live. here, >> but I invested outside. I'm now going to. invest here. [laughter].

>> That's one of the biggest reasons for. your growth. You think? [laughter]. >> Yes, for sure. >> No. Really? >> Yeah. >> But there must. >> it's a lovely city to live in. >> I mean, despite whatever people might. say, it's a lovely city to live in. People are wonderful. They love you a. lot. But it was not a great city to do. business in. Today it is becoming a good. city to do business in. >> And. there must be some other reasons as.

well, right? What do you think. personally? I know you believe in God. I. know you believe in people. I know you. believe in so many other things. But if. you introspect and just you have to. point out one specific trait about you, >> confidence. It's just that belief that I can do it. and confidence which is not. overconfidence. You [snorts] know what Sanjep sir which. is something very fascinating. I've not.

told you this enough times. actually I've never mentioned it to you. You have hunger. >> Mhm. How do you create hunger. in somebody who's been born into money? You know, we never knew we had money. The family, I'm telling you, >> we never went. Yes, the house was. Malaysia, >> but to us that was home. We We had never. seen anything else. We didn't know. anything else existed because we were.

kept sheltered from society. We went to. a convent school. >> between my cousin who was a year younger. than me and I, we had six shirts. and four shorts which we shared. M. >> and that's all we had. There was no. question of having anything else. We. were not allowed to have anything else. My mother was a strict disciplinarian. >> But you would know right like this is. just a discipline activity. At some. point you would get to.

>> we were not we were kept away from. everything. So we have money like. but what money meant also we didn't. know. >> So you thought your upper middle class. or middle class? We didn't know what a. middle class or or anything. We it was. kept away from us. And in in school, we. went to a school where the fees were 32. rupees a month, which is what we paid. That's what everyone paid, right? And we. had the least amount of pocket money to.

spend amongst everyone. So. yes, we went in a car and many kids came. in a bus. Uh so that was a difference. So that was our state of affluence. >> And the family had jute mills where the. school went for a picnic every year. >> M. So you definitely knew you were. something. >> Yeah. But it meant nothing to us. >> Okay. >> Right. And we were brought up with that. very specific thing. My mother was very.

very particular. that you will not spend, you will not. waste, you will not indulge. So that's the way all of us grew up. >> But let's say now now your kids, they. know, they know the privilege, they know. the private jets, they know the. billionaire lifestyle, they know this. fancy office, they know art. >> They certainly do. >> They certainly do. And kids are far more.

exposed. >> Exactly. So how do you generate hunger. in them so that they keep growing. >> you know beyond a point it is for them. to generate their own hunger. It's not. for us as parents. It is for us to give. them a good education good value systems. good grounding. >> then to grow or not grow. is in their hands. We can only create an. enabling environment. We can give them. thoughts. We can give them an. organization.

but to grow or not is up to them. >> What do you do? Give I'm I'm going to be. very specific. Okay, this is a big. problem I keep listening to from a lot. of my family business friends, right? And their parents specifically. How do you keep kids away from getting. extremely distracted in the world when. you're born into riches? And what I mean. by that is. a kid who's born with.

millions and billions of dollars, knows. about it, goes to the best school of the. world, goes to the best college in the. world, hangs out with other really rich. people, right? So you have access to. distractions, you have access to drugs, you have access to addictions, you have. access to so many things which you can. just be. So constant communication. and.

getting yourself in a position where. you're not ordering them. but they are taking seeking advice from. you. So they have to respect you. >> and not respect you because you're older. but respect you because they genuinely. respect you. Why? So they come to you. voluntarily for advice. >> Two is you've taught them that these. things are wrong. This is out of the.

question. This is maybe. the third thing is you spend when you. are. So yes, you will wear a certain. >> brand or. >> brand or a certain thing you will. >> but you will not get like five shoes. >> till you earn it then you spend it. >> What are you saying? >> So Shashwat now earns spends that's his. call. He still at home is wearing this.

night suit. which my mother had bought for him. She's not been she's gone like. almost eight years now. Every day he. wears it. It's got like holes. But he. says it's so comfortable. I want to wear. this. >> Which is the emotional value. Yeah. >> No, it's not only the emotional value, it's the comfort also. But this is an. example. But he does. >> It's the same. So it's not that he. doesn't spend, but he earns and he.

spends. That's fine. >> But how you do how do you instill this. value is what I'm trying to understand. Because when you have access, majority. of people will get ruined and they do. It's difficult to have them. >> It's about telling them that it's not. about spending money. You can you you have enough to spend. through your life, >> right? It's about earning respect. It's about creating something. It's.

about creating value. It's about. enhancing the legacy or redefining the. legacy that you've inherited. Uh it's about. it's not that they are short of. consumption or. life. I mean their rooms are well. furnished. They drive. His first luxury car came 3 years ago.

>> Why would you not let him use your. luxury car? He would, right? >> No, he wouldn't. >> Why? >> Why would he? We grew up, I grew up, and my cousins grew up not. having access. My parents and grandfather and all had. uh the Mercedes and this that and the. other of the world. If we went with them then to that extent.

we used it. If Shashwat. >> went with us then he used it. >> but on his own no he had his own car so. that was a luxury. His wife had her own. car but today they may have luxury cars. but till 3 years ago they didn't. >> Why do you set such such rules though? Doesn't it create some level of [snorts]. distance between you and them? Because. they'll be like a kid would be like,

"Hey, I know my father's rich. I know. Why can't I access it? What's the. point?". >> Because we've explained to him that. >> the concept is you earn it. >> It's it's it's for your benefit. And if you would really want to do it, we would still say no. But do it. But this is why we believe. you should not be doing it. >> Have you seen it in in your family or in. friends where they've also set certain. ground rules and have taught their kids. like that? It is not.

>> my brother's kids would be growing up. exactly the same way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But like. >> because that these values come from my. mother. >> Fair. But have you seen that where it. has not worked out. in some friend family member need not to. point it out. >> enough enough examples of. >> it has not worked out and what do you. think what went wrong there. >> because they came as dictarts. and there was no conviction of the.

parents themselves. and there was they were feeling very. unhappy. So you're you're almost like feeling. guilty about not giving the child. >> Should you not? >> No. Why should you? You you're giving him good education. You're giving him a good life. A luxury. good life and a luxury life are two. different things. He has the means to a.

luxury life. But he has to earn the right to the. luxury life. >> But now do you see difference in the way. parenting or value is going down. to your grandkids? Is it a difference? >> I think they're definitely more indulged. than our kids were. They are more. exposed. There is a why for everything. Why not for everything? So if you are eating an ice cream and.

you're saying no to me, why are you. saying a no to me? Uh and you have to explain rationally. You can't say I'm old and you're young. That doesn't work with them. They want. the full explanation, which is good. >> Yeah, >> which is good. So there's a difference. They're definitely indulged. Their. parents want them to have. >> the best class of life. all all the. toys, all the. >> the best class life. Yes.

>> But that's their prerogative. As. grandparents, we have a perspective. But it's for the. parents to. >> figure out. >> to figure out. >> But would you spoil your grandkids? Do you spoil your grandkids? >> Well, my children definitely believe I. do. [laughter]. >> So, you're a strict father, but not a. strict grandfather. [laughter]. You know, I think uh.

I'm definitely less strict than I was. with the children, but uh. my children believe I'm very liberal. with the grandkids. So, I don't know. [clears throat]. >> They would know because if they've had. the life that you're describing, [laughter] definitely they would feel. like that. Tell me one. trait about you which you want. your grandkids to learn from you. >> I would say faith.

Faith in a supernatural power in God. For me that is what has kept me going in. the worst moments. >> You know uh. the very fact that. It's a sense of security. that there's someone with you. Uh. there is a supreme power who will look.

after you if it were to become really. bad or the going were to become really. dull. And that has given me a lot of. strength and the ability to navigate. through multiple. major crisis in my life. And I sincerely hope that they. they see the merit in what I'm saying. >> Why do you believe in God so much? I. believe in God. >> See your why.

>> I don't know the why honestly. Uh but I. do. I mean and for me this is uh it's. like. constant. you know it's. >> but why do you keep it why do you have. >> it's a sense of security. >> and since you were a kid you. >> since yeah my father used to do it. probably I've seen him do it. >> I've also got I've also become like I. think I also started believe in.

believing in God since I was a kid. because I saw or my mom and dad, >> you know, >> I still don't have why why do I do that? But it's just a thing that. >> and faith is subjective, right? You either believe or you don't. that.

destiny is written. >> So in a way what is going to happen is. at a macro level maybe even at a micro. level defined. and it is due to the deeds or misdeeds. of my previous life. What I do now will. take me maybe to the next life. And uh I have done for example. past life regression. and I was able to go back a couple of.

lives. and that has explained a number of. things to me. Why I think like this or why am I scared. of something or. etc. >> Give me an example of what you learned. >> Okay, I'll give you another instance. There was a phase where I was having uh. a mental battle with somebody. and I was extremely irritated, frustrated, angry, everything.

Something negative happened to him. and I said a. okay. And I was genuinely pleased that. something negative had happened. Three months later, the same thing happened to me. with greater intensity, the same. negative. And then I said. it comes back to haunt you.

>> So there is somebody up there who was. saying. you did this now I'm going to whack you. harder. So, you know, it comes back. >> Has your life gotten better. >> because of believing in God? Because of. believing in past life sessions, because. of believing in everything that you just. spoke about? >> I'm very happy in my life. I'm I'm.

actually in a very happy state. I'm uh. I'm not content because I want to do. more things, but I'm very happy. >> What makes you sad? If anyone from my. family has said, for me the biggest. grief so far has been my mother towards. the end of her life crying in pain. That is something that doesn't get away. from me.

And I as a son was helpless. She had. cancer. The cancer had eaten up her. spine. So no spine existed. So when she was lying she was fine. The. moment you would prop her up she would. cry in agony. At those moments I. I mean. even to date after so many years. that is something that is my worst.

moment of life. Do you. do you get sad when people hate you? >> Yes. >> That is does it bother you when. people hate you or accuse you of. something or troll you? >> So when people. hate me, it depends on who they are. If they are. relevant to me, it makes me very sad.

Trolling used to bother me a lot. initially. I can't say it doesn't bother me today, but it bothers me much less than it used. to say a year ago and even less than it. used to maybe two years ago. But I've had a situation in my life. several times. where I've had structured organized. campaigns against me.

by near and dear ones. Initially I didn't realize that people. close to me were doing this kind of a. thing. They were false. heart. They were. spread with so much conviction that. almost everyone believed that what they. were saying was true. Over a period of time, the truth. prevailed. >> I've had this in business. What I'm saying was even as a kid within.

my larger family, we've had this these. situations. Now you have. other people who do it. They may feel. hurt. They may feel jealous. They may. feel agrieved. for multiple reasons or maybe different. reasons. But. so a malified.

criticism doesn't really impact me. If I've made a mistake, I'm the first. one to go and say I'm sorry. And I would [clears throat] have no ego. in terms of going and apologizing. But if somebody gets hurt. by something I've done, that causes me. to lose sleep. I may not express. it, but it causes me to lose sleep. And.

that is a point when I need to reflect. and start thinking of what. did I do that I shouldn't repeat. Not that it always happens. You do land. up repeating these things sometimes but. definitely the frequency gets much less. and the spacing between these incidents. gets much wider. And how do you deal. with the time when you get to know that.

your loved ones. are organizing or maybe. spreading hate against you? >> It's very stressful. >> How do you deal with that? How can you have a prescribed formula? You deal with different people. differently. With some you go and. Talk it out if it helps. With some it becomes indifference.

With some it becomes dislike. It's different depending upon the. individual. Depending upon. the period in your life, it depending. upon. how confident you are of yourself, how. secure you are in your own skin because. the more secure you are, the less you. react, right?

Uh and the less it bothers you. But it. is very stressful. It is very stressful. And when there are people who are very. close to you, it's the worst. But it's a. reality. >> Tell me one trait about you which you. don't. which you don't want your family or your. grandkids to have. >> I rely on my instincts. a lot. >> How is that a bad thing? I don't know.

whether it's good or bad. but. I think the world is getting far more. datadriven logic driven merit driven. and the more that AI will come into play. I mean people like me will still use. instincts but I think. two generations later. who's to say whether instincts will have. a role or. I think instincts will I'm a big.

believer the the more and more the world. becomes more data oriented people with. strong instincts will have an edge over. people who are just datadriven. obviously data. >> I would like to believe so because. frankly if it's only datadriven or if. it's if it's an algorithm driven then. what is the difference between A and B. >> and I also feel art will only be created. by creativity will only be created by. instincts. This data and logic cannot.

do. You have to be logicless. You have. to. >> AI cannot create an emotion to my mind. >> Exactly. >> But who would have believed that AI can. do all that AI is doing today. [laughter]. >> Fair. Never say never. The moment we say. this, 2 days later, somebody will drop. some some new update and then this will. be wrong. Yeah, I agree with that part. That's scary. I I but I feel that. people with original thinking.

will create keep creating art and. original thinking only comes from. instinct where you're a little. delusional where you go against the. tide. Just go with the gut. >> You know, sometimes Yeah. It's just that. [clears throat] some bones in your body. tell you that this is right. >> Yeah. And you can't explain it. >> You can't explain it. There's no logic. to that feeling. And when you get at least when I get. that I I say. you know and you know it's the right.

time. and more often than not it works out. >> Yeah. You can have a cap on the risk. you're taking but you have to do it. something out of just instinct and guts. >> True. True. Okay. Here's a question that. I ask everyone. Okay. In the end these. days I've started doing it. When were you most anxious in your life? when I heard my daughter.

cry in pain through her labor. and uh I was two floors below. and I could hear her two floors below. and her father-in-law and I were sitting. there. and both of us. had tears because we said this. suffering.

and she refused to take an epidural. We. wanted a natural delivery. and obviously the. that was it was anxiety. and you were you didn't know when it. will end what was. >> to say. >> and wow how do you deal with I I can't. even ask you that because but if you. ever get anxious again or if you have. gotten anxious again. how do you personally deal with it is.

there a framework is Is there something. which helps you get back? Is there some. mental framework, breathing technique? I. don't know. >> I do a puja. >> So at that time you were doing puja. >> Yes, I was doing the anaman chalisa. >> That helps you. >> It helps me. So when I sleep. there is a hanuman chalisa underneath my. pillow. I mean over the years I know it. by heart.

>> but. it's still there. >> Last question we'll end it this way is. what's the cost. of. being Sanjief Goinka of being. a chairman of multi-billion dollar. conglomerate. I think people have. expectations. and you have to live up to those. expectations.

and the pressure of those expectations. is sometimes a burden. >> What cost did you pay personally? >> So very often you I mean the receiving. end is more often than not the wife. Uh so the frustration comes out on her. if you're short on time. It's her time that goes away. If you're frustrated,

you scream at her. So, you know, uh, and. that's a big cost. >> The relationship cost. >> Fortunately, Prii has been. understanding, but. in hindsight, very often, I feel that. she deserved better. uh I didn't need to give her. >> hard time. >> I mean my sense my part of the suffering. in that manner.

and because she knew what it was. she took it well but at the same time. it's not pleasant. But now that you know. that. >> now I've. I think I'm a lot less. uh expressive you know I learned this uh. principle in one conference I attended. it was exactly around this then so the.

speaker was speaking about he used to. call it honey I'm home energy. so every time you're home. You tell. yourself, "Honey, I'm home." And then. you shift your entire state and energy. into something else because you can't. bring your outside work here. And you. have to have a very different energy at. home because if you come with bad energy. at home, >> everyone gets that. >> Everyone gets that. And you'll end up. being frustrated. You'll end up. screaming. You'll end up being just not.

nice to yourself also and to others. >> Yeah. And it's not pleasant. >> So every time you're home, honey, I'm. home energy. and then you switch off. every day. >> Yeah. The other cost is that if you're. in a close group, you can be yourself. >> Yeah. >> But if you're in a group of people who. are not necessarily close, then you get. quoted and very often misqued. So you have to be very mindful of what. you say. >> That's a big cost to pay because you.

can't be absolutely real everywhere. >> You can't. >> Do you are you conscious about it? >> Yes. You learned it hard way or you knew. it? >> I got misqued very often. >> So you learned it the hard way? >> I learned it the hard way. But and. now that some people. know me or recognize me, one has to be even more careful. And you see Kolkata is a small society.

So they. they love quoting people. H. >> so they'll say. true but. that is also true. >> but you've not clarified it given the. impression. >> so you know I think that's the kind of a. thing that. so I for example I go for a morning walk. >> and I walk with different people some of. whom over the years have become closed.

>> so with them you can be open but many of. them are walking with you because. >> you are you. >> you've had some minor achievement or. whatever. >> Uh and. there the propensity to quote. and maybe subconsciously misquote is. high. So there. I've just learned to keep a smile.

and speak very little. >> What's biggest misunderstanding about. you? I don't know. I really don't know. But. >> what do you think? Where have you been. misqued the most? Or what personality. or character or trait you think people. know about you, which is not true. >> I think most people now are getting to. know me. The people I care for know me. for who I am. M. >> so all these campaigns and this. maliciousness and all has dissipated.

Yeah. >> All right. Thank you so much. >> Thank you Raj. It's always a pleasure. >> Thank you. It's my pleasure. I always. enjoy talking to you and I always think. about I love certain things but it goes. to a different direction which is but. I'm happy. Thank you so much for doing. this. Can you [music] do one thing you. know because I'm in Kolkata I've always. wanted to try. like when we go can you get jalmuri for. us. >> from somewhere.

by the time you finish first thing. you'll have is jaluri. >> okay perfect done. >> can we get some jal muri organized. rather. >> thank you make it without coriander. that's it everything else is okay and I. eat spicy. >> spicy for. >> oilh everything's okay I just want to. try huh china. Yes. I want to try once. I've never. eaten. I've always heard. >> So, we do our own version at home now. >> Okay. [music]. >> So, it's it's a very so-called hairy.

version. >> Okay. >> But, uh, so once a week, >> nice. Thank you so much for watching. this episode till the end. We would love. to know what you liked or disliked about. this episode and which guest you would. like to see again on this show or which. are the new guests that you want to see. Let us know in the comments. Your. feedback helps us improve and make every. episode a little better. I'll see you. the next time. Until then, keep figuring. out [music].

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