How To Get Into Top Universities: Fees, Scholarships & Visas | Dr. Karan Gupta | FO574 Raj Shamani

In this entire unpredictable world, even. if you do everything right, it's very. uncertain to get a job. There's never a. 100% guarantee. H1B visas cancel. US is closing doors. You want to talk about Satya Dala or. Sabir Bharti, Sundar Pichai. Understand. that these are yes different. generations, different stories, different names. And that reality is. there today because you're not going to. get your. >> What is the first question a student or. a parent should ask themselves before. thinking whether they should study.

abroad or not? >> If your university survives these. removals, you should go. And let's come. down to what do you want to study? Who. are the faculty? Let's cut into those. factors. Let's remove the logo. Then. let's remove the people. So if nobody. knew that this university existed, would. you still go there? Finally, let's. remove that fantasy of getting a job. that I'm going to get this amazing job. in this amazing company. After we remove. all if this university still seduces. you, then go home. Talk about visa. What. are like two three things which a visa. officer is watching secretly judging you.

on? When it comes to visas, if you're. going to a good university, your visa. rejection chances are under 1%. US what. it's doing in my opinion is they are. giving visas to the best. They want the. best. People who are going to average. universities are not getting visas. The. government is very clear. They want the. best of the best and when they come. there and they assimilate into the. entire system, let them get jobs and let. them stay back. Tell me rankings versus. reality. Should a person only go for. ranking or a brand name and what. universities to study?

>> See, rankings constantly change for. reality. I would go and understand the. data what these schools are publishing. Tell me where your kids are going. Did. they set up these kind of businesses. because I want to set up those. businesses? What did the kids do? That. data I want to collect and that becomes. my reality. Not the ranking. >> Tell me the most underrated country to. go to for great opportunity, great. studies. Can everybody get scholarship? >> They can. What are the hacks to get a. scholarship?

I have a small favor to ask you. I need. you to subscribe to our channel. The. more subscribers we have, the better and. bigger guests we can bring and provide. you more value through these. conversations. And the full audio. experience of this show is also. available on Spotify where you can. follow us and listen to the new episodes. as well. Every year people spend crows. of rupees going abroad for a degree. But. in today's world, is it even worth it? Our today's guest is Dr. Karan Gupta a.

Harvard Business School aluminous who. has advised over one lakh students on. foreign education with a 100% admission. success rate at top universities like. Harvard, Stanford, Oxford and Cambridge. In this episode, we'll discuss what are. the 10 steps to check if a foreign. degree is worth it. Why is marketing as. a subject abroad now a trap and what. should you study instead? What are GCC's. and the massive job opportunities hiding. in plain sight? And should you stay.

abroad after your degree or come back to. India? Watch this episode till the end. And to know more about Dr. Karan Gupta, check the link in the description below. you know let let's make it in a. framework that'll be interesting I want. to go deeper in every point and I want. to understand okay let's let's divide it. into 10 steps that. how can somebody test in 10 steps that. whether.

the degree that they want to choose is. it even worth it or no and the first. question is the reality check which is. like. in this entire unpredict predictable. world where you don't know whether your. degree is going to be worth it. You. don't know if you go abroad things are. going to work out for you. You don't. know whether the world is safe enough or. no. You have no idea if no matter what. you study, will it be relevant tomorrow? Like it's it's unpredictable at this. point. What is the first question a. student or a parent should ask.

themselves before. thinking whether they should study. abroad or not? just one question if they. had to ask like okay should I even. consider this thought. >> are you even capable of going abroad or. what are you going to study abroad see. today if you're telling me I want to. study marketing. >> you're not going to get a job abroad. there are no jobs what are you going to. do with marketing because not because. marketing is wrong or humanities is bad. or theater is bad I myself am a student. of humanities I love the humanities but. if you think that you're going to go.

abroad and you're going to market. products better than a local can in a. country it's not going to happen you're. going to come. add analytics to it, marketing. analytics, then you have a chance of. finding a job throw your quant. So if. you're telling me what is the first. question, then let's get to the question. of what is the course I'm going to. study. Is this course going to give me. what my what I'm imagining my future to. be. Are you telling me you want to get a. great education at London Business. School and come back and set up your. company? Go abroad because you're not. going to get that education here. If.

you're telling me, you know, I want to. go to um Northwestern or I want to go to. Stanford and I want to work in Silicon. Valley, go abroad because from here. you're not going to directly go to get. to go there. Let's sort out what the. career is first. What is the plan in. your head? What is the map that you're. making? Then let's put the second as. finances. >> H the first question is whatever I'm. going to study, will that. >> help the career I'm thinking of? Like we. need we need that clarity. See like I. said a lot of people don't even know.

>> what career they going to choose. >> See some people also go abroad because. there's no other option career 14.75. lakhs take your J and how many seats are. there in your whole IIT system? 18,160. KTK 2.58 lakhs take the CAT for. management in IM. Kolkata reported.2% is their capacity. So if you're a talented individual, you're a talented student who knows so. much. What are you going to do in India?

Unfortunately, we don't have the seats. for you here. You know, when you talk. about study abroad, you have different. types of people or different types of. genres rather. M. >> one we have the. hold on one we have the student who's 17. who is from a IB school from um IGCSE. Cambridge school. >> they've been in an international. environment going abroad is the most.

natural progression for that child. then you have and and for that child. it's they're usually coming from. families where a job abroad is. appreciated. But it's not going to break the bank if. your child doesn't work abroad. >> You'll come back and join the business. or set up a business in India. There's. no really big deal here. >> Anyway, he studies in IB. So. >> you're going to Exactly. I mean, if. you're studying in AB and then you want. to study back in an Indian university. system, that child has a problem. They. have never ever been out of their.

comfort zone. They've been in a. protected environment. And then you put. them in a Mumbai University type. situation or a Delhi University type. situation, the child is not going to. perform well. M. >> we have a few private schools now in. India where they could possibly stay but. a majority of international ed kids are. going to go abroad to study and we'll. talk about the destinations but by. default it's going to be the US or. possibly UK Europe because your world's. best universities are there. Then the. second type is a student who's done.

their bachelors in India. because that is the case with a lot of. students today. One way out is if we can. gather the funds is to go abroad for a. mast's do it in a field where you can. still possibly get a job and then work. there. That is the dream the life and. that is the one which we question today. not the first one the second one because. the second one is where my my ears are. like open. Okay, now wait. Where is the.

money coming from? Are we selling mom's. jewelry? Are we taking a loan against. this property that we have? Then I'm not. sending you. Then don't go ma abroad. We'll find something here. But. financially, don't bank on a policy that. can change. You know, there's a case of. there are a couple of cases. I was. reading this boy who went to the. University of Dundi in the UK. He was. from Odisha and he did a masters in. finance. took a loan of £25,000 to pay.

for his education. Plan was the same. I'll get a job, work in finance and. repay. Didn't get the job. He was. washing vegetables outside the. University of Dundee for a year, hunting. for corporate jobs which never came. Had. to come back to India and find. employment here. And you can imagine how. long it's going to take for him to repay. the loan. Same country. In other case, a. girl Tisha from Delhi who work who did. her undergrad at Nottingham and masters. at Bath. And the Guardian reported that. sheworked with King Cobra, the House of.

Lords, got an amazing job in tech. renewable management in the UK. Two. people, two different outcomes. Point. is, it's not certain. So if you're going. to risk so much to get your job, question the idea. Policies are. changing. This interesting question. again where people are like. US, no numbers are dipping in US. Okay, open doors is saying that we have 1.25.

million international students in. America out of which 363,000. are from India. Global mobility to 7.5 million. So if. you're saying that international. education is only not happening, that's. a completely wrong number. Now with the. numbers which I was just telling you. about US. this year when we surveyed 825. universities we saw roughly a 17%. decline what we are seeing essentially. happening is correction this happened.

with Canada Canada indiscriminately. took anybody and everybody diploma. programs trade programs PR a Canada. >> what happened infrastructure couldn't. take it housing they had problems with. um medical problems with with rent, with. everything. The whole system went. haywire. What did Canada do? Self-corrected in 2024 61% less. international students. What is the visa.

rate as of Jan 2025 for Indian? 62%. Selfcorrection. I'm seeing this cycle. I've been. counseling kids for nearly three. decades. I keep seeing this cycle. universities suddenly some politicians. will come and say yes we are welcome. please bring international kids we want. immigration our population is dying we. need talent from India then the rules. change we don't want we have too many. Indians we cannot have so many then. again a few years later we welcome.

international students this is a cycle. that goes up and down you should not get. caught in this cycle don't get caught in. this policy. >> but Canada self-corrected. US is self-correcting. I personally what I'm seeing is students. who are going to good universities they. have a plan they can afford to go. they're still getting the visas and. they're going students who are trying to. go for diplomas community colleges. subpar programs they're not able to go. if that's what's happening correction.

>> who should not go. >> so. someone who's doing a highly. debtfunded masters. should probably not go right now because. if you're going to take such a big debt, there is no guarantee that you're going. to get a job unless you're going to a. top university and you've mapped out. your odds and you're telling me that no. but I've seen the numbers I've seen the. recruitments I'm going to network I. would say yes still go otherwise if I. just on the headlines see debtf funded.

masters don't go. So it's like if you. had to take loan, if you have to take. loan to fund your studies, don't go. >> No, take a loan. I'm saying it's a great. thing to take a loan as well. But what's. the plan? If I'm taking a loan and I'm. going to be studying, let's say, cyber. security and I'm going to a top. university, if I have to evaluate that. risk, let's do it. But if I'm going to study marketing and. I'm going to an unknown state or a. private university in the middle of.

nowhere and I'm like my jobs are going. to come to me for God's sake don't go. >> Let's say you can be. student who is not academically great. like me who dumb in school. and yet figure out to excel in life in. some other field then you have a chance. >> Yes. So I may be average in 500 things. I'm little less average in few things in. my life. Right. So I want to be I can be.

considered. >> Yeah. >> That I'm not talking about. I'm talking. about someone who's average doesn't have. clarity. Just be like. should not come and take loan. That's. what it it is. >> 100% yes. Don't send that child abroad. M. >> I'm like the kids who are kids who are. actually forcing their parents that I. want to go abroad because here nobody. understands me and is and deep down. inside you know and the kid knows that. you're only going there for partying or. probably just getting out of the country. you should not.

let's do a let's do a teachable moment. here okay I'm going to teach you this. test it's a it's a very good test which. I've developed let's call it let's call. it the five removals test. >> okay. >> if you or your if your university. survives these five removals you should. First, let's remove the brochure. >> Let's remove those glossy photographs, the student testimonials, maybe even. outcomes for a minute as to what's going. to happen after the course. And let's. come down to what do you want to study? What is the content of this? Who are the faculty? Who's going to be.

teaching you? Who are you going to sit. with? Let's cut into those factors. Then. let's remove the logo. So for 10. minutes, let's just hide the brand and. see this is what I'm going to study. But. you don't know if it's an MIT or a. Harvard or a Stanford or even an NYU for. that matter. Then let's remove the. people. So if nobody knew that this. university existed, would you still go. there? The then let's remove the obvious. that mom went to study finance or dad.

went to dad expects me to go do. marketing. this is what the societal. expectation is of me. Let's remove that. also. Finally, let's remove that fantasy. of getting a job that I'm going to get. this amazing job in this amazing. company. After we remove all five, if. this university still seduces you, then. go. >> But a lot of people want to just go. there, party, and then figure out some.

work local. Okay. So if your parents. have that kind of money to spend on this. fancy and expensive holiday. >> No no no parents don't know this. >> Oh just the kids want to do it. >> The kid is going there to probably have. a life abroad and in his or her head. they have right oh we will do some. part-time job. We will do probably we'll. work in some McDonald's and we'll figure. out because they're like nobody knows. we'll we'll do it at least we'll have a. better life and party there. >> Better life. So so many people go there. at least in this illusion.

>> a better life than what they have here. >> M. >> you remember the Dundy case. So if. you're okay with that kind of money. spending that money not getting a job. and then washing vegetables outside your. university if that sounds appealing to. you then so be it. We're not going to. stop you. >> So these kids should not go. >> No they should not go. Look you have to. be serious about going abroad to study. It's a big commitment. >> Let's make it profile-wise. Let's I let. me show you five.

>> typical type of profiles of students, >> what they want, who they are. >> Then which country should they go? >> Okay. >> Okay. Let's do it. >> So let's let's do that. So first test is. >> if you are going for wrong reasons and. you're not hardworking, don't go. If you. don't have enough money and you're. taking very heavy loan and going for an. average degree, don't go. >> Right? That that is the thing. >> right. >> if you are if you're going for a. kick-ass degree and for that if you had.

to take some loan go ahead and do it. because that will repay that's what you. said till now. >> yeah okay so number two is which country. okay because there are so many countries. and people usually just think about US. UK Australia they or Canada which is. becoming which is very popular for India. so let's let's pick up like five. different people okay so let's let me. just put out five different people I'll. show. All right. >> Okay. These are the five people. >> Mhm. >> Okay. So, let's say if someone who wants.

whose average academically, right? He. has 70%, his budget is about 25 lakh. This person can spend. and you know wants no debt, wants to be. safe and wants a stable job or probably. real ROI. Even if you take 25 to 50 or. whatever, this person wants like very. stable real job. Doesn't want to play. around. What should the safe career.

easy this person is not even thinking. about making like millions of dollars. just wants to make sure that I get. better opportunity in the world better. than India because India this person. would probably not even make like 50. 60,000 or 70,000. >> Yeah. when you come to the Indian. education and you're doing your. bachelor's why people run straight for. MBA is because bachelors may you're not. going to get the kind of salary you. probably want to get 20 25 30,000. >> with an MBA from a nonIM we are looking.

at maybe 50 70 maybe a lack of rupees. >> with an with a with a private institute. like an ISB we might be at 24 25 CTC a. year with an IIM that might double. >> for this candidate who wants a safe bet. that that blue of safe bet is what I'm. seeing the most. >> I would not risk sending that child. abroad at all. find your MBA at a ISB in India and get.

a package of 24 lakhs per year. That's a. safe bet for you because for you for. this candidate for Rahul who's the safe. bet if I have to spend this 25 lakh. rupees I could spend it on possibly a. one-year mid-level MBA in the UK. assuming he has some work experience. If. he doesn't have a experience, I'll give. him a masters in finance. Masters in. finance is a highly quant degree. He may. still get opportunity, but it's a risk. because I'm going to an average.

university. What's so special about. that? If I want to play safe with that. 25 lakh rupees, we're not going abroad. We'll get you a career here. Career. counseling and helping someone with. their career does not always mean let's. go abroad. >> It can be a great career here in India. >> Interesting. Let's read once again. The. safe bet. >> So there you're telling me there is no. country, no degree which is safe. >> No. Now he's average. If you told me this.

boy was brilliant, >> 95% student. >> and I'm getting him into an MIT and NYU, I'm getting into one of the top. universities of the world, then let's. take that risk. I'm with you. I support. you. I have your back. I don't have your. back there. >> 70% kid should not. >> No. But don't you think like probably. let's say Italy, Germany, some other. country, Ireland, Singapore, you that person won't get like a secure. safe job. You know when people tell me.

this and I understand it's not because. of any other reason it's because of this. media hype. H1 H1B visas can H1B visas. name US is closing doors. Please. understand us is where you have the. maximum amount of jobs, the maximum. amount of people staying back. Okay. You. want to talk about Satya Nadala or your. Sabir Bhartya, you want to talk about. Sundar Pichai or understand that these. are yes different generations, different. stories, different names, but end of the.

day US is where the opportunity is where. you're going to get your job. You're. telling me UK UK unemployment is so. high. You're telling me Germany now. Germany is also something which students. love because it's free. Now earlier it. was public universities teaching in. German was free. Now public universities. have English courses which are also free. of cost. Students are going in halls. The German ambassador had claimed please. come to Germany. Student is thinking. America's closing doors. Germany is.

saying welcome bhaggo. What? And I this. is my prediction that Germany is also. going to have to selfcorrect just like. how Canada did because Germany is going. to realize we've taken in so many kids. Where are the jobs for them? So if I'm. going to Ireland, I'm going to Dubai, I'm going to Germany, I'm going to. Eastern Europe, I'm not going to get. employment. I have to come back home. That reality is there today. Maybe if. that person was brilliant, he'll stay. back in that happens in any country.

even. they learn Spanish they will stay back. but. >> Rahul. >> Rahul you should stay here. >> okay let's come to the second one this. is good. >> the risk taker 24 so. >> she's risk taker she's like top 10%. talent in the world she she's probably. published researches she's always. geeking about she can fund up to 1 cr. either by taking loans or convincing. family members or herself 12 or whatever.

figure of job. She's like, I'm ready to. spend like a cr on my education and I. want to be. in AI and ML and the next technology or. robotics or EV whatever I want to be on. top right and I'm ready to take the risk. willing to go study in a hope that. tomorrow I will be working in some risky. career and want to make top buck. Ana is. the kind of student that should go. abroad and this is the kind of student. that I send abroad and want to send.

abroad. 100% yes if the answer was should we go. or not. >> where should she go. >> Ana should go to the US Ana should. target her top universities all the IVs. which are eight IVs her MIT her Stanford. Caltech possibly UCLA UC Berkeley the. best universities of the world in the US. when she's doing four. Let's assume that oh wait hold on an is. 24 an is going for her masters right. she'll go here she'll do her STEM degree.

>> she'll get 3 years of OPT she'll get a. kick-ass job given that you know she's. already published research and she's. going to do research while she's doing. her masters too she'll network with the. professor she'll get a kickass job on. OPT for 3 years post which if she's. lucky she'll get her H-1B visa if she. doesn't she'll come back to India and. set up something amazing maybe a cyber. security firm or something with prompt. engineering, god knows, but she would. she should definitely go to the US.

>> But why only US? Why not let's say any. of the European countries or. China or Singapore or Korea? Why not. those countries? Because they are also. popping. >> So, you know, with Europe, but like I. meant Korea and Singapore, they're. >> sure like top top Asian destinations for. that matter. For her she would want to be in a. international environment and also at a. place which is the leader of research a.

place which is going to give her. opportunity to be there participate in. that research challenge things change. things US top universities are going to. give that to her if I put her at let's. say a national university Singapore or a. Hong Kong University of science and. technology I would make her more. academic. This girl has already published. research. She's already been thinking. about problem solving. She wants to. contribute back to her academics and. that's why she's published the research. I don't think Asia would suit her as.

much as US. >> Interesting. >> And what about even staying back? If she. wants to stay back and do something, it's much harder to stay back in Asia. Look at the amount of people we have in. Singapore itself. You're competing so. much just with the Chinese people there. How are kids going to stay back there? How are they going to stay back in Hong. Kong? >> I went to HKUS last year and the when I. visited them almost every face was. Asian. It was not. There were there were. very few Indian faces. There were very.

few white faces. >> H interesting. Let's say the third. candidate. >> Zara. >> She's 21. Decent. Uh budget is. >> none. By the way, none of my five kids. are undergrads here. They've all. finished. Ch. Let's see. Zara 21, decent. academics, nursing. >> Let's make her undergrad. Okay, let's. >> Okay. Yeah, let's give Zara underra. >> Let's make her Wait, sorry, >> I will do this. Okay.

>> All right. Zara is 18, >> decent academics, nursing is her. interest, very good. Budget 15 lakhs. >> per year. >> Per year. Lovely. like the tightest. >> high demand and a genuine path to stay. and work longterm. >> She only wants to go out because she. knows that here she's not going to get. opportunities. So she wants to get out. of the country and work. like. stay longterm and she only is going to.

another country because she wants to. stay there and never want to come back. What we would do for Zara is first we. would apply to a mix of US, UK and. European schools. >> because we don't know geopolitically. what's going to be safe for Zara next. year or the year after next for that. matter. with the budget of 15 lakhs the. what what we would do is we would apply. to UK universities which fit that budget. without any scholarship and we'd put in. some good US universities double that.

budget assuming that we apply for. need-based and merit-based scholarships. so we can then fit that university in. that budget but with decent academics. and wanting something in healthcare. because I believe that healthcare is one. of our careers of the future I would. 100% back Zara uh to go abroad. >> But which what countries? >> US, UK and Europe. >> Why? >> Now if I put her in. >> UK is an all-time low at an in. employment. >> So think about it this way and this is.

actually a very good uh this is a very. good calculation that you're going to. do. What if I have this budget. >> but I want to go to one of my top US. schools. How about I do three years in. UK, earn my bachelor's 15 to 20 lakhs a. year. So my total expense will not. exceed 50 lakhs for 3 years in some. schools. >> Then I go and to US for my one-ear. masters. >> Ultimately I've come to the US job. market. >> but I paid for only one year instead of.

paying that four years or that scary 3. cr figure. >> So Zara can do that. >> So 15 lakh a year she would end up. paying like 50 lakhs and then a cr. >> Yeah. >> In. >> or less. So she'll end up instead of. spending 3 crores. >> she'll save 1.5. >> but then her degree will be considered. and everything she will be in the job. market of US. >> Yes. There's an undergrad plus masters. there. >> The only thing that she'd be missing is. an undergrad who smart would have.

started networking from day one right. after the 12th grade. Whereas for her. she's starting late but if she's smart. enough to do this math so early in the. process. >> she's a hustler. >> So she's a hustler she's going to do. great in life. >> Okay. So that's that's this case. Let's. say. >> now we have who is a PR chaser. >> who just be like all I'm going there is. for. permanent residency. I I will go there.

probably drive whatever I had to work. wherever I have to. I want to spend 5. years so that after five six years I can. just apply. Now for Adita, I would think. Australia could be an option because. Australia and possibly New Zealand are. still countries where PR is not. impossible. >> Okay. >> I mean, if he wants to even move to. Canada, Canada, you can still get PR. You're not going to get a job, right? But but the boy can set up his own. business.

>> and he can be in Canada. um he should possibly also consider. learning a nice European language like. Spanish or French and then going to. Spain and France. They have several. entrepreneurship visas where if you can. set up a business in their country, you. can possibly stay back. This boy would. have several options because he wants. PR. He's clear about it. And nothing. wrong with immigration. Just be clear. Like what I really like about Adita is. that he's telling me right in the.

beginning that Dr. Gupta I want PR which. country should I go and study now I am. not going to directly send you to. immigrate I don't do that but if you. want to upskill that's what I would do. with Adita let's upskill and let's put. him in an environment where he would. have a great chance of finding. employment. >> which is the easiest country to get. permanent residency. >> today PR it all boils down to the job. market US is easy to get a comparatively.

easier to get a job but tough to get PR. Canada easy to get PR but tough to get. the job. >> Europe, UK again there are ways to get. settlement and get PR but job becomes a. question mark. So to answer your. question back to Australia, New Zealand. >> but Australia is also getting difficult. for people. >> Everywhere is difficult. There is. nothing like PR. >> Don't you think like smaller countries. let's say I don't know Portugal. >> is it is it easier to get a PR there? It's not easier to get in it's not easy.

to get PR in any part of Europe till you. don't get a job or till you don't get a. business running. There are. investmentbased PRs which are completely. different. >> We're talking about students who are. studying and then want PR. >> Again, go to the basics and find the. course which is going to give you a good. job and through that job try to get PR. >> New Zealand easier. It's still very. small. How many people can New Zealand.

even accommodate? There are eight public universities. which are good. I mean, how are they. going to even absorb such a great. number? Okay, you want to do hotel. management, New Zealand, Australia is. still a good option. Probably even cyber. security is a good option. But how many. people? You have a billion people watching your. show. They are not all going to get. accommodated in New Zealand, >> which is fair. So you would still put. Australia um New Zealand. So let's say.

this person who's trying to chase. permanent residency what kind of and. he's okay and she's okay with the. courses. Okay. Like these guys Aditya or. Aditi or whatever person is watching. they just want permanent residency. They're okay to study anything and. everything. They will figure out just to. stay out of the country. They will learn. hard and like get the degree done. Canada, Australia, New Zealand. >> What courses?

>> So again, >> where there's like big demand of. probably jobs today and they can go. >> If they're willing to study, take. something which is quant heavy, take. something tech heavy, you still will. have some opportunity. >> Give me two three examples. >> like cyber security, wireless, wireless. security. Um then if you want to go. something in healthcare these are areas. which are still evergreen and one of the. most and underrated areas which no one. is talking about and again I believe.

this to be a career of the future is. energy renewable energy. You're talking. about AI but who's talking about where. AI is getting the energy from? How much. energy do we have? So if you're going to. study renewable energy whichever country. you go to you'd be able to cover PR for. yourself. >> M interesting. Yeah, this used to be. true for oil and gas, >> right? Energy. >> Energy, same. So now renewable, let's. just turn into energy. Okay, let's let's. come to the.

>> cavia. Cavia 22 prestige hunter. >> excellent academics budget two cross. plus ROI irrelevant wants Ivy League. name. See now again 100% and an obvious. answer is US for her because your eight. IV leagues are in the US. But apart from. that, are there other prestigious. institutions around the world which can. give you as good as prestige? Like as. good prestige as your IV leagues of the. world. >> In my opinion, if you're getting to the.

UK and going to Imperial, we're going to. National University in Singapore. uh. I think and of course like in Spain I. university now. gim chun I can count three to four. universities which are IV league status. and that's the point I was making to you. in the beginning that today if you tell. me my child is exceptional I've got one. of the best profiles. which university and which country I am. going to map out your universities by.

default you'll see the largest amount of. dots being in the United That's. interesting. Let's put a like a unique. case. Okay, like last case which is. let's make a profile. Let's say this guy. is. someone who's 30 plus. >> Okay, >> has done their undergrad in India. probably has done masters in India did. the degree and everything in India is. average is stuck at a job of one lakh. per month. Okay. uh.

think now this person wants to go. abroad. Which country should this person go? >> He's 30 plus they want to go abroad and. they only want to go for better. opportunities because they they're stuck. at just making 1 lak rupees or two lakh. rupees and they can't get out of it. They want to make some money. They want. to feed their family. They want to make. sure that they make some good life out. of themselves and they're tired of.

trying to get you know opportunities in. India. They're stuck and they want to do. it in job. They can't do business. They. don't want to do business. They want to. do job somewhere. They're okay to. probably live alone in one country then. go to another country. Then this. person's okay for money. This person. will do anything and everything as long. as it's legal. >> Now this person is 30. >> The first clue 30 plus. The first clue. that I get is that with so many years of. relevant experience, this person person.

should consider an MBA because if he's. looking at a master's degree, he's going. to be with people who are 21 and 22. And. peer-to-peer learning is extremely. important when you're studying abroad. One is with your teachers teaching you. for a limited period. Peer-to-peer is. for the rest of your life. If I put him. for a mast's with people who are 22. years of age, he's going to complain. that what am I learning from your from. them? He needs to be in an MBA where. people have 7 years, 10 years, 12 years. experience. That's number one.

>> Okay. two. >> so. >> course MBA. specialization within since he is very. motivated to earn more money and that's. a strong motivation for him to even. consider studying within that MBA that. concentration should be something STEM. related science tech engineering math. something STEM related maybe IT. specialization maybe AI specialization. maybe something STEM and if he says yeah. I just can't do STEM and STEM is not my.

scene M. >> all right then let's consider going into. finance because at least that's the M. part of STEM the math part right I want. him to become more quant heavy I want. him to become more tech heavy. >> marketing should be we will not do. >> marketing. marketing then then you got to be happy. now okay you're. you I listen whoever is listening I love. marketing I love HR I'm a humanity. student. >> I'm a humanity student but what What I'm.

saying is do marketing analytics. >> Make it marketable. If you're if you. understand marketing, do a career that's. going to sell. So do marketing analytics. or finance or computational finance, mathematical finance. Now once we have sorted you making sure. that. >> priority sorry. this is. number two and this is three. If you. can't do this then do this. If you can't.

do this then do this. >> Correct? >> Now once we have sorted this for you. >> and we have said okay you know we've. upped your skill set we're upskilling. Now the second is I would want to put. him into an MBA program where I'm seeing. that 90% of the class 3 months within. graduation are getting placed in these. type of companies. Placed no working in. these type of companies. In fact after. this I'll tell you exactly about this. placement part. they're working in let's. say consulting companies or they're.

working in roles that this person is. interested in. I would not even think. about the country right now. I am going. to target specific universities for him. I'm going to look at London Business. School in France. I in Spain I'm going. to look at NYU in New York. I'm going to. look at UCLA in in LA. I'm going to look. at Northwestern Chicago. I'm going to. look at maybe if his GMAT and GRE do. really well, I'd put a Cornell and a.

Colombia and I'd put a Harvard as well. So if you notice, I have given you. France, Spain, England, US. >> because this is where your top. universities got concentrated. So I didn't really go to country. Country came last for me. I started with. course. After course I went on to. specialization. After specialization, I. went on to the university name because I. was studying the career reports of each. of the universities. >> But then these are the prestigious.

universities. Not everybody can get in. >> Okay. So now assuming the all the same. logic applies. I'm just going to bring. my list lower because one of the. variables which I gave you here was his. GRE or his GMAT. >> In addition, the story like today, what. did he learn from his experience? Why. does he want an MBA? what is he going to. contribute to the school he's applying. to? That's a narrative. So, we would. help build that narrative so that a top. school takes him. So, let's assume I'm. not getting support from a GRE or a. GMAT. Some of the schools I named have.

their own admission tests. Maybe I do. one of those tests. Let's say the. student still doesn't crack it. Then I. have to come a notch lower today. Even. if I'm going to, let's assume I take. City University of New York, which by no. means is considered in your top 30 or. 40. If I put him for an MBA there and he. follows this kind of a cost structure, I'll still give this person a 90% chance. of finding employment there and this one. lakh per month is at least 10 lakhs a. month.

>> Is that possible today? >> Yes. >> How much this person will need to. invest? >> This person study in let's say a. university which is not in top 30, top. 40. specifically the the one I mentioned. that's a that's a state school and. therefore the fees are lower this person. would probably invest about 1.5 crores. for the MBA. >> okay. >> and if he was good and got scholarship. then that number would be lower but. assume it's not it would be 1.5 crores. his starting salary in a city like New.

York would still be approximately $200. to $250,000 a year. >> that's a lot. >> that's what starting salaries in New. York are because Are you sure? I. >> let's let's. >> I find it difficult to digest. >> Okay, let me explain. >> Even if. >> 50k is a lot of money even from US. standards. So no $250,000. How the breakdown would. be is most likely you would have a.

salary of about $180,000 and 70,000 is. going to be your bonus. I'm assuming. once again that you're coming in from. >> a field that I've told you which is STEM. and quant heavy. Okay, let's assume you. did your finance specialization. This. 250 could be 350 and 450 also. By the. way, I've been quite conservative by. telling you 250. >> Out of 250 living in a city like New. York, how much do you think you're going. to save on save after you have spent on. taxes and living? What comes in your. hand is probably less than 50%. So maybe.

100k. >> but that's still a lot of money. >> It is. 78 lakh rupees if they're saving a. month. >> He invested also. No, he put in his cr C. cr and a half for his MBA. He put in his. time. He put in his opportunity cost. which is losing the salary for the two. years. >> See when you go abroad, right? The. bigger question is also. there's so much unpredictability. that these countries change rules left, right, center. You can choose one. country to go to and then they change. the entire policy. Like US what's going.

on? We are all seeing it. Canada. introduced study caps. Australia you. were saying it's comparatively easy. They have changed nine times the policy. right in last I think just one year or. two. >> correction. >> nine different corrections. So they do. >> nine times have changed it's not. predictable I go in in a country with. some hope and then they change as a. student I am then gone. So which are the. most predictable countries which you. feel in next 3 4 years they're going to. stay like that. First I think the again.

the point which we are making which is. very important is don't make your. decisions based on a visa policy. Visa. policies are going to keep changing. That's what countries. >> there's no predictable country. >> There is no predictable country. There. is no country I can tell you right now. as I was giving you the Germany example. Germany has opened doors and saying. please come we're happy to take you. My. prediction is this policy is going to. change. They will not be able to handle. these many international students, not. so many from India and they're not going. to be able to generate as many jobs as.

they are predicting to. So this policy. will change. I cannot tell you a single. country where this is stable. Please go. here. You will have a great future. There is always an element of risk. involved. >> What we have what we've been doing is. just measuring risk across different. profiles. >> What do you feel Middle East? >> Middle East is great. Right. I mean the. only thing is the lack of well-known. international institutes. So. >> but all these international institutes. are opening their second campus sorts.

>> just like in Singapore. So Australian. and UK schools are like if I have to. talk about Dubai you've got the NYU Abu. Dhabi campus close to Dubai and then you. have a University of Birmingham from the. UK which has a campus in Dubai. Wongong. man I don't know so many. >> Wongong Manchester only has certain. specific master programs no undergrad. programs there are just two or three. names that I can give you there because. there is nothing else India also people. ask me the same question but India I.

heard lot of foreign universities are. coming here where which ones please give. me a list I would love to know which. ones because end of the day as of today. and even if I look in the next 3 years I. don't have a single top university name. to give you if you want to go to a top. university you have to go study abroad. >> Okay. So the next test is the course. test. Okay. Everybody keeps going for probably two. or three same kind of courses. Okay. It's either you have to go for STEM like.

not STEM is not even that popular. Let's. say computer science that's like a buzz. word. Second is finance. Third is. marketing. These are like the top three. where people end up like you know. landing whenever they go abroad they. usually choose one of the three courses. and we all know that finance is high. paying marketing is less paying. Usually. a lot of marketing people come back and. they're clueless what to do. They're. like headless chicken. Computer science it was a dream but.

recently it has become a nightmare. It's. not that hot as it used to be. So what. are the courses today that people can. actually choose which help them secure a. great job, make some money and probably. increase their chances that they will. get some ROI on the investment they're. going to do in when they go to study. abroad. >> You know, I used to tell people learn. Python. Python is one of the most. important computer languages and I used.

to tell people learn Python, >> learn how to code. Of course, that's. completely outdated because AI can code. better than us. >> Yeah. >> But learning Python has not changed. Learning Python still helps you debug. software. It helps you debug what AI is. creating. It helps you understand what. AI is creating. Machine learning. You. still need to know Python. Today, if you. take any field, let's take economics,

learn behavioral economics, learn. econometrics. If you're taking health, bioinformatics. If you're taking law, law, data science, data science itself. If you're doing psychology, human. computer interaction, there's a degree. HCI. What are we doing? All we are doing. is putting data with your field, which. could be any basic field. And you can be. secure that even 10 years from now.

you're going to have value because when. you go in to any job today you go into. any job interview you talk to anyone you. want to talk if you tell them how you. are using AI with your work and this is. what you can produce you'll be valuable. >> 10 years later also high chance you'll. still be valuable when you won't be. valuable is your basic skill what you. were you you're coming with that has. been replaced is probably already gone. So you're telling me that no matter what.

you're going to study, add data, computer, >> AI, >> AI, tech, even in your basic art degree. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. If you're going. to be doing graphic designing and in. graphic designing also, you're going to. add AI to it and you're going to tell me. why you are creating a better logo for. me than just my claude can. You still. have a job. You still have a contract. from me but show me how you are better. than AI or how you can use AI to a. minimum. >> So any course is good or are there.

specific courses which are high paying. when you add certain layers of data and. tech to it. It becomes even more. interesting. >> Number one, as cliche as it sounds, you. have to still follow your passion and. enjoy what you do. >> That advice is evergreen and will never. change. What I'm saying is try to see. how your skill, what you're doing is. going to be valuable in the future. >> Whether it's going to be behavioral.

economics, whether you're going to. actually going, you're going to enjoy. what you're doing. But is it relevant? >> How do I find relevant? Every year. things change. >> Look at what's happening again in the. future. Just go a few years, five years, think five years into the future and. think, okay, what changed five years. ago? See what see what's moving. For. example, you know that comsai and AI, you know that AI, machine learning, you. know these fields are taking over. How. is your field going to marry that field? Marry both of them together. What is.

human computer interaction? It's. understanding today how human beings are. going to interact with technology. That. field is that field is going on. It's an. ongoing process. It's not over. >> Interesting. Interesting. >> Today, you know, people who want to set. up businesses. I have so many kids who. come to me for entrepreneurship. I. always tell them they're like well I'm a. business student why should I learn. Python why should I learn about MLAI I. said you need to understand how AI is. going to impact your business your. business would become better if you. incorporate AI in it today the guy who.

made Uber or who came up with the. concept of disruptive technology for. transportation if he didn't think that. Python can understand search pricing and. that's how we make money in this app. because of search pricing how would he. come up with this business idea maybe he. never coded maybe he 10 coders at that. time to code for him that code this for. me but he understood what Python could. do for him. >> understand today what data machine. learning and AI can do for you no matter. what your business is and then you would. be thinking into the future that's the.

answering. take so the the test to take on a on a. course is a is it somewhere related to. data or tech or AI. No matter what field. you're studying, you need to marry. those. >> If you want to stay relevant, yes. >> Yes. That's the number one thing. >> That's number one. And this is not. something I'm saying because I like tech. or I like data or I like AI. I set up my.

website. I set up my entire CRM of. leads, of students, of managing. processes all on my own. I'm not a CS. guy. I don't have an engineering degree. But it took me just maybe 2 weeks. because I had the vision. I knew what to. build. I was like, "Okay, I want to. build this crazy system that can track. every every student." A student comes to. me, talks to me, a parent talks to me. I. have AI listening to every conversation,

transcribing every word, feeding it into. my own data, giving me insights which. maybe I missed. And every student I. have, I have one AI agent working for. that student. I created this myself. I. didn't need to have any computer science. or engineering knowledge. But a field. like counseling, psychology, I married. data to my own field. >> And someone who could have done this for. you or can probably do it better than. you, you will try to hire them. >> Yes. Come with come to me with a.

proposal and show me what better you can. do. If you have that vision that I can. think of this futuristic thing for your. work which could make you even more. efficient and help even more kids I. would take that on. Will these degrees. be portable? >> Portable like how portable degrees are. for example if somebody's studying in UK. can the same person get job in US? >> If somebody's studying in Australia can. the same person get job in Europe? Like. are these degrees global? If you pick it.

up from different different countries, >> it's very difficult to study in one. country and work in another. >> Even you even if you study in US, you. can't get jobs in other countries. >> If that US company that you're thinking. of has a branch in those countries, you. can still market your degree to those. particular companies. End of the day, you need to still get past the visa. regulations of the country where you. want to work in. Out of all the. countries, the US degree does have a.

little bit more global recognition and. global appeal as opposed to other. degrees. >> Not even UK or any. >> not as much. There are hubs. Singapore, Hong Kong, Dubai, these hubs are hubs of. international companies. You can work. there. Let me give you a very very. interesting concept which most people. are not aware of. GCC's, >> the global capacity centers. M. >> you remember in the late '9s we had BPOS. and call centers what were they we were.

just outsourcing you know manual stuff. from developed countries and you know it. made a lot of financial sense for those. companies and that industry exploded. quite a bit at that time. >> GCC's is basically top companies around. the world. >> who are outsourcing intelligent things. to India for example R&D AI um products. design, intelligent things. We have 2100. GCC's in India with a revenue of 100.

billion employing more than 2.36 million. people. That's an opportunity. >> right now. >> Right now, that's a great opportunity. It's having. >> exist right now. You can go online, search for them and you'd get all the. different listings. They're centered. around Bangalaroo. They're centered. around Hyderabad, Mumbai, everywhere. >> Interesting. >> But this is it. People have to have that. drive to go find it. This is such a big. opportunity. This is great. If you've.

studied abroad, you've come back and. you're like, well, let me look at what. companies are here in India hiring. They. pay well, better than the average. employer in India. So, your course has. to link back to what the GCC's have. outsourced. >> Nice. And what universities to study? Because we talked about universities. right in the middle a little bit but. tell me rankings versus reality. >> Now should a person only go for rankings.

or a brand name? >> See rankings constantly change. I don't. give rankings too much importance. because a university ranked number one. next year goes to number eight. Number. eight may go to 16. How many numbers. we'll keep chasing? >> How will we make our life decisions. based on these numbers? How reliable are. they to begin with? >> They may be testing things I'm not. concerned with. I may be concerned with. let's say how many people are getting. employed after this particular course. Right? >> I use rankings as a measure to. understand and map what are the top.

schools. >> That is my first test that what are the. top schools not necessarily a ranking. for reality. I would go and understand. the data what these schools are. publishing. Tell me where your kids are. going. I'm not asking you to give me a. job. They're not even going to give you. a job because the concept of placements. doesn't exist. We'll come to that. >> But let me understand from your. university. Did your kids go to these. companies because I want to work in. those companies? Did they set up these. kind of businesses because I want to set. up those businesses? What did the kids.

do? >> That data I want to collect and that. becomes my reality, not the ranking. >> Interesting. And how do you find those? >> They all published on the university. websites. >> But university will only publish the. good data. Now again this is not legal. Universities have to publish the total. outcome of what happens in a class. They. audited. It's fraud if they don't or. it's fraud if they publish something. that's not accurate. >> You you're asking for a single source of.

truth. >> Yes. >> The single source of truth is going to. be the data that's given to you by a. particular university. And maybe you. started with the rankings and you saw. the top 50. They're like okay I know. these are reputable names the trust has. to come somewhere and this is where your. trust is coming that okay if you're. saying that this is what happens to to. students after this study at your. schools I trust what you're saying. there are so even if let's say some. metrics and ranking measurements keep.

changing. and someone who's at eight or number 20. or number 25 and they have written out. they've shown outstanding results why. are they not coming up in rank. >> So rankings could measure different. things. One thing. >> what are the metrics that. >> that decides whether it's a good ranking. university versus bad ranking? >> A very important metric now is the. research output that you're doing. Univers ranking agencies want to measure. are you publishing papers which are. contributing to the scientific.

community? How many are you publishing? What contribution are you making to. different fields within your university? Placements of course in terms of how. where people are going to be working. that comes into play. Diversity how many. people of different nationalities are. you admitting then what kind of. facilities you have on campus? How much. money are you dedicating to maybe R&D or. to student satisfaction? How happy are. students when they graduate? How they. happy with your college environment? There are so many factors that are used.

>> So suddenly you see you're like but yeah. Harvard should be number one for. everything. It's not. It's number one. for maybe business at the mast's level, but for computer science or AI or. something, you probably won't go to. Harvard. You might want to pick an MIT. or might want to pick a Caltech. >> Why did you choose Harvard? >> For me, I had already gone through a. traditional MBA. I already had learned. about business. I had learned about. management. I was applying it to working. in my own business, working with my.

students. I needed motivation. And I. felt I was doing the same job, same. thing every day. Where was the. motivation coming from? You do reach a. certain point of I wouldn't say boredom. but monotony. It's monotonous. You just. get like the same thing again. And. that's why I picked a program and. Harvard well I picked it first for the. brand. >> I was like I want to be in the number. one school of the world. >> and the first thing was brand. Today. India makes the whole um chase behind.

IM's IIT. Why the brand. >> a Dhubai Amani kid which is one of the. best schools in Asia has a greater. chance of getting into a Stanford MIT. >> and then that child has a greater chance. of getting into Mckenzie and Deote and. whichever company he wants because the. brand is carrying forward. >> True. >> Second would be the judgment. >> Information is free. Mhm. >> If today a university thinks they can. charge you three crores for information,

that university is dead. >> They can't. >> But what they can charge you for is. judgment. >> In your book, >> what do you mean by judgment? >> Like in your book when you when you said. um build not talk, you spoke about the. same thing that today children have to. learn how to question things. I'm giving. you information but how do you know all. this information I'm giving you which. sounds so convincing is it actually. convincing or not convincing. >> that judgment who's going to teach you.

where are you going to get that from and. critical thinking critical reasoning not. memorizing these are the skills that we. are going to pay money for that's what a. good university has to give you that is. the test is is my degree even worth it. is the first test you should ask. yourself after the brand what is my. judgment ment today have I got judgment. after studying if you don't have. judgment I'm sorry your degree is not. worth it a lot of our generational. problems today and I see that a lot. because children and parents come to me.

with it I see the the motivation there. is very little motivation with the. children. >> why you know I think this generation is. the one which we have given the maximum. amount of information maximum amount of. opportunities but we've also confused. the hell out of them, right? We've given. them so much. We've confused them. >> They don't know. In fact, so many kids I. talk to when I talk about AI and the. future of AI, I can see the disdain on. their face. They're literally the eyes.

are closing. They're like, you know. what? Please don't talk about AI. I'm. done. AI, AI, AI, AI. They're like, I can see. it in their eyes. So, I can see parents. thinking, is the job going to exist in. the future? I'm like, you know, you. should be worrying. Is AI making your. child stupid? They're using GPT and. they're using claude for the most basic. They've outsourced their thinking. >> That's what you should be worried about. Stop asking me will AI take my child's. job. >> First your child should be capable of.

getting a job. You don't want your child. to become dumb because of AI. Right? >> So this motivation. or rather lack of motivation is what I'm. seeing in the generation today. >> What motivation to do what? like nothing. like they don't want to do anything at. all. >> A lot of them are so I feel. disillusioned. with where the future is going. They're. so disillusioned that they feel that why. do anything and.

>> anyway things are going to not be in our. we don't know if the world is going to. be like you know even safe by the time. we are like 10 years from now. Who knows. what's happening with geopolitics. Why sit and bother with these things? Now of course children come and tell me. this in front of their parents. They're. like. >> but um Dr. Gupta these people all did. well without a degree. Why are you. forcing us to do all these degrees? And. I'd be like listen on my fingertips I. can count 10 people who have not done. their education and have achieved.

tremendous success in their life. What. about the millions of dropouts who have. done nothing with their life? Statistic. So don't think that without a degree you. will not achieve success. Yes. Now we. are questioning today what that degree. is giving you and if it's worth it. But. if you want to talk about chances of. success, you probably will be exposed to. a lot more if you're in academic. environment for most people. >> That's I also have a simple framework. It's like. if you have a clarity and enough proof.

that you are a very high agency person, >> then probably no matter which field you. are in, you have degree, no degree, whatever you are doing, you'll kill it. But if you're not an high agency person, you want somebody else to push you and. you want to then think according to. them. You want some direction. University is great because then the. education actually teaches you how to. think and then teaches you how to become. accountable for things. How to become an. high agency person which a lot of people. are not born with.

>> I agree. You know, so one of the things. which we were talking about was can you. teach judgment? I thought about it for a. second and I think you can to a lot of. people today if you take case studies. right and case studies is a fantastic. way to learn where I'm telling you what. happened in a real company what was the. outcome and then you and I sit and. debate that outcome and we look at the. decisions which were made that led to. that outcome we can to some extent hone. your judgment skills okay this is how. you make a good judgment this is what.

you can of course this is the nature. versus nurture issue some people are. born with it and some people have to be. taught End of the day it's a combination. but more and more we have to train. ourselves that this is more of a. >> learning thing you can learn how to get. good cha. >> fair I don't think people are born with. it. >> I feel they're born in an environment. where it as they grow up because of. their mother or father or some relative. or the books they have read or the. videos they've watched or from their. classmates or friends or some distant.

neighbor or somebody you just learn. because you were born in that. environment, you end up becoming a good. learner or someone with good judgment. That's what those are the kind of people. we call they were born like that. No, no, they were born in an environment. which made them a learner. So you if. you're not that then you have to put. yourself purposely in an environment. where you can learn judgment. >> So at the end of the day you learn. through your environment. If you've not. gotten that environment, go to a college. and get that environment.

>> and the will to learn. You should want. to do it. If you're going to just sit. thinking magic is going to happen for. you, it's not going to happen. There. were people in my class also, well, an. executive program typically is not. supposed to help you find employment per. se. But there were people who were like, well, I've now got a Harvard alumni. status. I should be getting jobs. I. should be getting things. Nothing comes. to you. You need to go and apply for. things. Talk to people. Only then it. will come. Don't think sitting how much. for the program at my time? Beautiful. question. 60,000 or $70,000 at that.

time. >> And how long was the program? >> The program ran for 6 months in total on. campus 3 weeks, then at home, and then. again 3 weeks on campus. >> Beautiful program. The first time I. applied, I was rejected. They said, "You're too young. We don't want you.". Because the average age was 32 was. >> 42. >> The average age is 42 and I was 34. And. they said, "You can't get in." And I'm. like, "Okay." called up the director, spoke to her, explained to her the kind.

of work I do, the impact of the work and. how ready I am for the program. She took. me in for the next term that started 6. months later and gave me a scholarship. Unheard of. So my total price was not. the price what you what you're seeing on. the GMP website. >> So right now is about $60,000. >> It's 80. >> $80,000. So 80 lakhs for 6 months. >> Yeah. Plus your travel cost. Living is. included. >> And you paid probably peanuts. >> Nice. No. >> 10,000 20,000. >> do you end up becoming friends with a. lot of people who you who then help you.

or because it's a professional course so. friendships are not very important. >> I think the network is the third test of. my degree after judgment and branding. the network is so important you know I. am not a morning person I don't like. getting up early at Harvard I used to. get up at 6:00 a.m. So I was in class by. 7:00 7:30 ready for the performance that. my professors are going to do today. Finance professors I felt like I'm.

sitting in an opera. I don't like. numbers. but they were so good. They made every. subject interesting and marketing. Okay. let's not talk about Cotler's five. theories. No one interested but let's. talk about what happened in this. company. Let's give you virtual money. you invested. Tell me what that money. became. Every subject came to life. That. was the value of the faculty and talking. about people sitting next to you. I. enter class and they have name cards. right my name right in front big class.

of 120 people I'm sitting right in front. next to me there's someone on my right. there's someone talking to them one week. I got comfortable with everyone the. following week I enter they've changed. my position I'm somewhere else in class. every week they kept changing positions. because they wanted to break your. comfort zone they wanted you to network. with more people around you so you get. to know more people not just stick with. few set of people that you've met right. in the picnic and um that was a small.

transformation but it was part of really. really networking there and. we had living groups. So in living. groups we were eight of us who stayed. together. We all had separate rooms and. a common living area and every evening. we had to discuss cases. We had to talk. about our own businesses. We had to talk. about what we learned, what's what's. failing, help. And that is still alive. today. We still have access to each. other. We still are talking to each. other. Earlier this year, I'm going to.

say something that's going to blow your. mind right now. Earlier this year, I get. a call from one of my classmates, Ro Vagdani. Um, wait, no. Rogani. Um I get a call from one of my. classmates that he has become the. president of a country in West Africa. called Benon. This is a man who we were sitting with.

in our classroom. We were having our. discussions with in the dining room. We. were sitting and having our lunch in our. dinners and this year he has become the. president of Benon. That is the kind of. network your university should be. providing you. >> Are you opening office there now? in. Benon. Of course I am. I'm going to work. on India Benin relations next. And you. know what's more interesting? His wife. is also from my class. >> Interesting. >> He married her. They met they met at. Harvard. So the network is so important. Not just.

your teachers, the people you're with. >> You talked about the WhatsApp story, right? Tell me when you were in Harvard. and you cracked this 100 120 whatever. What led you to do this? What was the. exact problem? What exactly at what. point you thought this is an idea which. could work? Because it's not very. obvious for people to just email to a. CEO. When I was at Harvard and I was. class secretary over the break, I was.

like you know what let's keep in touch. We are 120 people. both WhatsApp had 100. people limit in the group. >> and I'm like we are 120 how are we going. to keep in touch so I said let's create. the group not everybody joins the group. >> so I created the group 30 joined 40 50. 80 90 now I'm getting tension people are. going to cry that why are we not in the. group and exactly that happened 100. joined. >> and then emails started coming to me why.

are we not in the group so then we sent. an email to the CEO and co-founder of. WhatsApp app Jan. >> Kum. >> and we said listen I'm at Harvard. Business School we need a group we are. 120 and only 100 can be in your group as. per WhatsApp's roots. >> he replied in 2 hours give me the. additional names I'll add them in and by. morning the group read. 120 out of 100. I think in my mind maybe the response. came faster because of the brand because.

I mentioned. >> for me number one is that. you have to find a solution. If there is. a problem, you cannot just give up. See, even if you get a denial on something, the denial is probably the end of the. decision process. It's not end of the. larger process. It's not end of the. negotiation. >> So when that when that WhatsApp thing. happened and I was like I have to find a. way to connect my group. And second was.

I have given a commitment as class. secretary that I'm going to to put. everybody in this group. How can I say. those last 20 people are left out that. was also somehow my responsibility. solution had to be formed. >> And I always think that if something is. not looking right at the face of it, let's not question the people delivering. the information. Let's go to the source. Let's go to the policy maker. Who's made. this policy and why does this policy. make sense? I questioned the policy and. I still do that. I have this very.

interesting way of solving problems. >> or rather understanding what is the real. problem because imagine if someone comes. today to you and says I'm very confused. in my career. I don't know what to do. >> I'll say let's look at this five eyes. solution. It was actually originated in. the Toyota production factory in Japan. And the five Ys basically is keep asking. why till you arrive at the most.

actionable cause or the most actionable. point of the problem. So if someone says. I'm very confused with my career. I. don't know what course to do. I don't. know what to do next. The first thing is. why? Well because uh I'm not getting any. jobs. Why? Because my CV does not have. enough prior experience. Why? Because my. undergraduate education never had any. internships and experience. Why? Because um I joined a program which. was very theory in nature. Okay, great.

Now I have an actionable thing to do. Maybe I need to send you for a master's. degree. Maybe I need to pick a masters. that will specifically allow you to get. work experience like a co-op program. while you're studying and working or a. program which has internships or a. program that gets you a good job later. So you can always reach that bottom. So. if you I don't know with the WhatsApp. example also I mean why can't I add. people? Well because the group doesn't. allow it. The the the WhatsApp doesn't. allow it. Why don't they allow it? Maybe. they have a capacity problem. Why? Maybe.

because the CEO knows. Let's ask him. And that's why I emailed him. >> It's called root cause analysis, right? That's what the process is. The five Ys. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> Works so well in life for so many. things. >> You do that for everything. >> For a lot of things. Especially when it. comes to students to understand what is. their real problem and parents cuz. there's a lot of frictions and. >> what's the biggest common pattern that. you have seen which what is a common. problem for everyone.

>> I think a common. >> last tell me the last why. >> the last why. >> huh. the last why is people have not. introspected enough they have not really. understood what is it they want that. confusion is coming from because of. societal pressure or because someone is. saying do something like I use the SSF. framework which I developed myself. >> What is it? >> The SSF is security, status, freedom. I feel all fights that originate in my.

counseling room between parents and. students are all centered around SSF. When a parent is saying I want a top. university, >> I want a university or a degree or beta. engineering. parent is chasing security. If a student is saying um but but I want. to be free or I I don't want to do. something so hard I want to have fun. He's chasing freedom. Society is asking which university are.

you going to go beta. ch parents want to say my child is in. Boston my child is in New York they are. chasing status when you everyone is. chasing different things. So the fight. is never about the university. It's not. about is Oxford better than UCLA. The. fight is more about this. Someone wants. security, someone wants status, someone. wants freedom. Now a simplistic version. would you would always think that child. would always want freedom and parents. would always want security and parents. would always want that. I had done an.

actual research with 801 student parent. pairs and that research paper is going. to be published soon. In that the. results were so surprising that. yes, it's true that parents did chase. security. Parents chased um. >> status. >> Status. Parents chased status. Parents. chased security. On the freedom matrix, parents and students were aligned. A lot. of parents did want their children to be.

free as well. That was a very. interesting revelation. But yes, because security and status. dominate the conversation, the fights. originate there. See do you have when all these. frameworks all these things I know the. country I know the course the things. that we spoke about money is an. important part that's where we started. right is there some kind of ROI. calculator or something that you can. teach us live where.

we which helps a student decide if that. person is going to put X what are the. chances they're going to make 10x X. So should we should we try to pen it. down? >> If we have to think of an ROI, okay, there's going to be what are the first. factors that we're going to think of it. before we add in our equation. You're. going to first think of let's assume. that you're a master's kids who's.

finding a job. You're going to think of. well what is the kind of job that I'm. going to be getting? uh if you're an. undergrad kid you may put more emphasis. on the quality of your education when I. say quality we're talking about maybe. your judgment maybe your transformation. maybe the network you create correct if. we have to sit and quantify this I would. say that your ROI would be. your job career business whatever we. decide that is let's call that X okay.

this would be the first part because. this is what your purpose of your. education purpose of your of of. everything is. >> along with your personal transformation. which is going to be why if the the sum. of these two is your ROI I think it's. too simplistic and I think it's an error. when people say that ROI should equal to. tuition. and how much am I earning per year yeah. tuition plus living expenses and then my.

job salary should be so much let's. divide that by the number of years it. takes me to earn my money back. This. formula may may work for you in India. It may work for you if you're going for. an IIM or you're going to an SPJ or if. you're going to ISB in Hyderabad. You're. going to any good school in India. Let's. use this formula and it makes sense from. a parents point of view because we have. the concept of placements. This concept. of placement doesn't exist outside. India. The onus of finding a job is on.

the student. Universities want to teach. a student to be responsible enough to. find a job. They have career management. centers, not placement offices. See the. title difference. We don't call it a. placement cell. In India, it's called a. placement cell. The university takes the. onus of placing you. >> Now, depending on the university, they. may not be able to place you in your. dream job or the job which gives you so. much money. For them, it's more. important. Let me give 100% placement. I'll get my next batch of students. Outside India, a career management.

center, there's no limit to what kind of. a job you can get. They will train you. with interviews. They'll help you refine. your resume. They'll connect you with. alumni who are working in institutes. They'll make introductions to companies. for you. So they'll help you. But all. this is driven by you. This is you who's. taking that leap forward that I'm going. to go get a job somewhere. So there now. when we plug in this formula the Indian. formula of tuition plus living expenses. equals to salary divided or multiplied. by number of years whatever does not.

work. We have to add in job, career, business as one part. Quality of my. education and what my personal. transformation as my second part. >> Fair. >> This is completely live. I haven't even. thought about this. >> Which is good. Which I like this. I like. this as long as. >> And would you would you add any other. factor in? >> No, I would just add in a factor that a. lot of people.

see. I'm a very anti-deree person. Okay. So that you also have to take that in. mind but I place high amount on exposure. and your ability. to figure out things to live alone to. network to build this all of these. things which you learn you don't put a. price tag on that. So maybe year 1 your. salary is an entry- level salary. But. because you have learned all these. things in last two three years of your. university year five you end up making a.

lot more because all these things which. you learned in universities which became. your personality you ended up doing that. for 5 years and that those skills which. are you just becoming an high agency. person an extra lively person a good. connector all these things like little. leadership qualities in you they all got. compounded and 5 years later Now it's. showing in some other form of your part. or on other part of your personality. which will help you make way more money.

than your entry- levelvel job then. So. the math that you do X number of salary. and then Y number of years doesn't hold. true because someone who goes to a. shitty place. doesn't learn these skills doesn't know. how to actually path his or her way in. the world doesn't network doesn't have a. aluminina network doesn't understand. reaching out to people and you know. become resourceful.

they don't know they might start because. of a brand or tag or something they. might start with higher salary but 10. years later they will be much behind and. you'll be much ahead. So that factor you. should add. >> absolutely right and that's the part. which is highly difficult to quantify. >> Exactly. And it's an invisible part. >> Right. And that is why. >> people don't put a price tag. >> and people come with what's the ROI? What am I going to get? How can you. quantify the leadership or how will you.

quantify that judgment which you have. now learned because of your education. which 10 years later the business you. created was at one spark your your. teacher had said something in class that. sparked something in you how do you. quantify that part and that's why I put. it as a variable as X and one variable. as Y because X can be the financial part. but that Y variable is what your. education is worth. >> exactly most people don't get this. because for most people see they're also. coming with place of let's say limited.

resources or they're not giving that. importance to at the end this year I'm. buying this particular education product. if I'm buying this product what am I. getting from this product and hence they. need to break it down this by the way. all of these things you can learn on the. streets as well. >> you can't education is free information. is free and I said this before that. >> and all these skills the Y factor you. can be a very street smart person you. don't need to go to a fancy university. for that you can learn it on the streets. you go to a big city be the smallest. fish and then learn how to become a big.

fish. >> What if you don't have that drive? Then. you go to a good university and that. good university gets you that drive out. there. What you're saying makes sense. for someone who says that okay, yeah, I'm I'm Mr. Dubu Bayamani and I'm coming. into this city and I'm going to make. something for myself. I don't need no. education because a man had the drive. The man had vision and he was had the. execution power on it. How many people. today have that without handholding? So. universities handholding them. Fair. enough because the end product may be. great. So simplistic way to say okay you.

don't need education you can achieve. everything but put discipline to it get. to a good university you're multiplying. your chances of success. >> I I'm not debating you on that. I'm just. saying there's another way. If you can't. get to a big university don't think that. you're done. >> You can make your way and you can be way. better or way bigger than anyone who has. gone to the top universities in the. world. you probably might hire end up. hiring them if you're highly driven. motivated person with clarity and you.

have an execution power. >> you know sometimes the job of a good. counselor is to say that and I say that. to people that sometimes you don't need. another degree or you don't need to go. to another university you need to work. on yourself there are people who cannot. afford even close to what we are talking. about right not the three cr figure not. the 1 cr not the 50 lakhs not the 25 not. the 15 none of those figures I tell them. I get messages meages from people from. my foundation also I give them skills. like okay let's do this quick online.

course it'll give you a skill you can. get a job somewhere and maybe you can. transform it into a business later for. more earning potential it's not. necessary always that you have to spend. so much to achieve that if you're driven. let's find you a course a government has. so much going on too. >> the government AI program where people. are getting money if you're doing an AI. project undergrads I believe are almost. um a lack of rupees master students. almost two lakhs and PhD students 70 to.

80,000 per month and a two lakh research. grant all this is part of the government. scheme to promote people who want to do. AI projects there's the um the. apprenticeship training program kn 2.0. There are so many programs which people. are missing that the government is. paying you to skill you. You're missing. that opportunity right there. >> How much can be funded by loans, education loan. >> So 1.5 crores. >> Yeah. Our state banks are very very.

liberal and very eager to give students. loans. >> and a lot of the state and the private. banks now can give you loans of up to a. cr of rupees sometimes even higher. >> as long as it's not higher than 80% of. your total tuition fees and living. expenses. >> also most of these loans are guaranteed. Now something which is very interesting. is if you are going to a top university. there are companies that give you. cosigner free loans. What they're.

telling you essentially is that we. believe so much in you that you've. gotten to this top school. You've got. this brand stamped on you. >> that tomorrow you we know you're going. to do something great with your life. whether it's a good job or your own. business. >> We're lending you your entire education. fee at an interest rate and we know. you'll pay it back. We are taking a. promise that you'll pay it back. We're. not asking you for any proof, any. guarantee, any security. That's how much. confidence they have in you that you're. going to be paying your money back. >> if you get admission in a top college.

>> Yeah. >> This only works if you're going to top. college. Yes. >> Because this nobody's going to fund your. state education. >> People are going to fund your Harvard. education. >> Correct. Even banks when they're giving. you loans, they want to know which. course are you going for. Banks also see. banks also put a judgment. Key is this. guy going to get a job to pay the loan. back. Well, let's say you pointed out a. state university. Who will fund that? >> Some banks will fund a state school. >> Okay. >> Private lenders are not going to give. you a cosign of free loan because it's a.

state school. But if you go to your. private banker and tell them it's a. recognized university and a recognized. course, they'll give you the money. See, money in my opinion should not stop you. from studying abroad. Today you have at. the graduate level teaching. assistantships and research. assistantships. Both are part of. something called graduate assistantships. >> where you work with a professor or a. teacher for 20 hours a week. They pay. for your tuition and they give you a.

stipent for your monthly expenses. >> Your entire education can be free if you. get a TA or an RA. You have need-based. financial aid. So if you some schools, private schools, your IV leagues, you. fill a form giving all your family. assets, your family income, family. expenses and you demonstrate need that I. cannot afford to pay this cost. They if. they admit you in a needlind process, they pay for everything. Then you have loans as we're talking. about and then certain opportunities.

that people don't even know of or use. For example, the Arasmus Mundus. scholarship. Besides paying for your. tuition, €1,400 a month, the Tata. Cornell scholarship, the JD Tata. scholarship, there are so many. individual scholarships. India has a. national overseas scholarship which most. people don't know but it's for lower. income and certain communities. So, India also has certain funding. opportunities. I truly believe that. funding should not stop you from going.

abroad. Tell me one more thing like. another test is scholarship. Will this. will a person get scholarship or no? What are the hacks to get a scholarship? Can everybody get scholarship? >> They can. >> So what are the hacks you get. scholarship? >> Okay. Now again when you talk about. scholarships there's a wide wide variety. of scholarships that you need to look. into. There's the merit based which is. solely based on your merit how good you. are at your academics or your testing. etc. >> Let's assume that we are not. We move to.

the next one which is need based where. we're going to fill forms showing your. family's income, expenses, assets, obligations and there are universities. who will match the need. I have people. who have said we need 95 98%. need-based funding and if they got in. the university said 98% is yours you can. pay $2,000 and come. So 100,000 fee. people paid like almost like nothing. But how how can I get that? >> To get a merit based scholarship, the.

trick is you need to get admission. To. get admission, you need to have a. brilliant profile. If you don't have. that brilliant profile, you're not going. to get admission. >> But are there some hacks around it? Like. can I get a scholarship in one. university or maybe I apply to. universities where I get scholarship. like is there some some way? >> 100%. Yes. So we talked about merit-. based and need-based. What we didn't. talk about is identifying those. universities. So there are universities. which are known not every university. gives need-based.

>> aid and not every university gives merit. based aid. >> You select the right universities. So. that is a very important part of even. counseling a child that if this is your. need if you tell me listen I can only go. if I get scholarship. I will select. universities which will give you. funding. So I know that okay you know. what there's a 90% chance this this. child is going to get funding from this. university. I will recommend that. university to you. So selection is a. hack. >> Select the right university number one. Now once you get that scholarship also. the hack is you want to increase the.

scholarship is scholarship matching. So. we show one university that this. university has given me a higher. scholarship please match it. We make the. universities bid against each other also. to get a student funding. It's not. unheard of. It's actually quite common. now. >> Interesting. And which the good student. will get the bidding. >> always. Now that that is not negotiable. You are a you're a good student. The. world is your oyster. We have so many. options. >> Can an average student come to you and. you can make that person a good student. >> Always profile building. Profile. building is so important. Now listen,

let me explain. >> But everybody can do profile building. Then. >> let me explain how it works. >> You can be flowery. At the end of the. day, the student has to perform. >> But let me explain. An initial selection. in most places will start with your. academics and your testing. Okay, that. itself will allow us to understand what. universities to target. Now let's say. you go you're targeting the A group. We've been speaking about that. Let's. say you're targeting the B group of. universities. Once your initial. selection is done and everybody is put. on a table and we are all studying. profiles, what I do is just imagine.

three boxes. The first box is the box. which shows me you're capable. Leadership, sports, debates, drama, model, United Nations, theater, acting, outdoor activities, scuba diving, hiking, skiing, chess, whatever. Right? like a nice box shows me that you're. capable of doing so many activities. The. second box shows me that you're credible. with your major. So, a research paper. that you've written and published in a. nice well-known Scopus index journal,

articles that you've published in other. journals, internships that you've done, online. courses that you've taken. It shows me. that you're you that you're credible. when it comes to the nature. And the. third box is this fun passion project. This one thing that defines you. Maybe a. startup, maybe an NGO. I had this girl. who learned judo for 3 years. And when. we sat, we were like, "What do you care. about?" And she's like, "Women. empowerment and women safety." And I'm.

like, "Okay, then maybe we should use. judo to teach underprivileged women. self-defense." And that became her. memorable activity. The third box. So. when your profile spans across these. three a it should not look like three. different children as one person that's. important the coherency between the. boxes is important but let's get your. coherency right and you will get into. not only a university which we are. aiming but you'll get scholarship from. that university because this is your. real profile this is the narrative that.

we are spinning undergraduate graduate. PhD the boxes will differ but the. thought is the same coherency showing. your capability, credibility and how. memorable you are. >> Interesting. Coming to let's say we we. spoke about money. Talk about visa. >> What about visas? Everything about visa. >> That's a big test to go right. >> the test. You can try to be like I want.

to go to this country and that country. and I want to do this and that and then. the big monster comes in. >> See, I'll give you the bottom line right. in the beginning. Don't make your. decisions, don't make your entire life. based on an existing visa policy because. that can change. You cannot make your. decision of where to study and what to. study based on that visa policy. That's. the that's the headline. That's what you. should be focusing on. >> But so many people who get in the. courses, everything's done, they still. get their visas rejected. Like US visa.

in particular is extremely hard to get. >> It is. >> So what are like two two three things. which a visa officer is watching? or is looking for secretly judging you. on. >> So when it comes to visas, the and again. you know what I've been seeing and when. we're talking about rejection, this is. my personal opinion. I'm seeing that if. you're going to a good university, your. visa rejection chances are under 1%. >> Okay? >> Right? Let's 99% you're going to get. your visa. When you go in front of a.

visa officer and he sees your I20 for. the US and he's like, "Oh, you're going. to car. You're going to NYU." you're in. a officer needs a reason to deny you. with them. You have to really have. messed up your interview if you're going. to get denied for an IV league or a top. school. When an officer sees you're. going to Vichita State University or. some other random school going to be. like really do you know where Vichita. is? Do you know do you know the city? Do. you know Kansas? Do you know anything. about the geography? Why have you chosen. this university? The student will.

fumble. He will not be able to answer. the question. His visa will be denied. Now and again my analysis here is the. rejections what we are seeing is a. correction. US what it's doing in my opinion is they. are giving visas to the best they want. the best people who are going to average. universities community colleges are not. getting visas. That is what is happening. and you will see that in a couple of. years because the government is very. clear. They want the best of the best. and when they come there and they.

assimilate into the entire system let. them get jobs and let them stay back. >> But why have they started checking your. social media profiles? >> They started this right like for 5 years. your profile needs to be public. >> You can't have a private Instagram or. social media profile. >> You cannot. >> Why? >> See it's a. >> Why do they want to check your public. profile? I'm going to tell you something. very interesting here. Okay, >> the US is the the government policy is. very clear. They don't want people who. are anti-America. They don't want people.

who have posted things which are putting. the American government and the American. policies in a bad light. They don't want. people who are going to be potential. troublemakers on campus who are going to. come on campus. You've come to study but. you're creating protests for issues. which may or may not be related to you. Okay, that's the that's the logic. Now, now let's bring that back into our own. country out here today. You tell me if. we have foreign students coming to. India, coming on our campuses to study. and creating protests and creating you. know law and order issues, I promise you.

the first thing India would do is deport. those children back where they've come. from because we have to protect our. country, our sovereignity, our. government policies. The US is doing the. exact same thing. >> How is this different? We have to understand in our context as. well. >> But there's freedom of speech. The land. is known for that. So whoever can have. like people can have different sense. >> We are not we don't have freedom of. speech.

>> No, I'm saying I'm saying US. We're. talking about US specifically right now. India is not very harsh on those visa. policies by the way at this point. Right. So I'm talking about the the. country which is harsh. So US is known for. you can you are a free person you can. criticize whoever you want you can. criticize the nation you can criticize. the government you can criticize the. president and you can be open about it. >> right so that's the personal side of. things yet a person who can be against a.

policy of a particular p president. and yet that person wants to study in. the best college in the world because. that person is not doubting that US. that university which is in US is the. best that's why that person's studying. now going there now that after going. there he or she might criticize some. policies or some actions which the. president is taking what's wrong in that. >> but see the this is exactly what. happened no at Colombia which is one of.

the world's best universities there were. foreign students who were protesting. against the Israel Palestine war that. was going on right and they were the. ones who did get into trouble because. the government is like you are a foreign. student in my country. You've come here. to study. Why are you sitting and. protesting about issues that don't. concern you? >> Go back down. >> Please go back to your country. Now. whether this is right or wrong, I mean. I'm not sitting in that position to. judge, right? I'm explaining why that. policy exists. >> This government saying that if you're a. US citizen, great. Criticize us. But if. you're some XYZ random country citizen,

don't come to our country and say. criticize us. Is that the thing? >> You're when you're your purpose of. coming to my country is to study. Come. and study. You're a student. No. Why are. you getting pulled into things which. don't concern you? >> India, we're talking about India today. OCI card holders who also who are going. to are basically foreign nationals and. you're going to come here and criticize. India. We India Indian government is. also doing the same thing. They now the. difference is yes the India the OCI. people whose OCI visas were revoked. because they had problems with the.

current government they went to court. Many of them got their visas restored. US they did the same thing. They went to. court and many of them got their visas. restored as well. So the same thing. happened. >> Interesting. And that's. >> we are living in a world where every. country is nationalistic, right? We are. and every country is like voting for. their strong leaders. End of the day, whoever the US leader is, the the people. have got him there. Our Indian leader, our people have got him there. We are. voting for this. We want this. We. everybody wants to protect their own.

countries. No one wants to see a. foreigner coming to their country and. creating problems. No, >> which I agree with. But not a lot of. students go with an intention of. creating ruckus. They. go there to study then they study. properly and in middle of it they feel. something very deeply against an issue. and then they protest around it. So. those students should not be penalized. just because they feel something against. a particular issue. If they're going to.

have protests and they're going to it. could disrupt their own education. My. advice is keep this to yourself. There's. no need to go to campus, make posters, create a big scene for what are you. doing all this? You've gone there to. study. You've gone to make a name for. yourself. You've gone to learn. something. You have a political problem. Come back to your country. Let's talk. about it. Why are you going to a foreign. country and doing it? So let's let's say this is still a thing. which people do after going there. Okay.

before they go there okay what are like. two three things which a student should. not do. >> so that they get the visa approved. >> If you are a person who has very strong. political views and you love to post. those political views on your social. media and you love to criticize other. government's policies then don't think. of going to the US because you're not. going to get your visa. It's as simple. as that. Why beat around the bush here? Let's be clear. You don't belong there. Be be in a country that welcomes your.

views. Go to Europe. Europe doesn't have. a problem. Go and protest on campuses. there. >> US has a problem. Don't go. UK also does. not have a problem. They also don't. check. Happily, they'll take you. More. than 90% visa approval rate. >> Stay in India. >> So that's the only thing. >> the the political. >> Yeah. What are the other things they. should not do? You know the thing is I. so far have never encountered a student. who has been denied a visa because. political never. >> So this is more a warning. >> but they can't tell like maybe they're.

rejecting them for something and they. won't tell you on face. They'll give you. some other reason. Brush it under the. car. >> You know I don't think the US means to. do that. I think they'll tell you oh you. have a problem with our policies. We're. not giving you a visa. They don't need. to answer to anybody. So why would they. be polite with you and tell you n I'll. not tell you the real reason. And. they'll tell you on your face, I'm not. giving you a visa because I don't like. what you said politically. Do what you. want to do. Go. What will you do? You. want to come to the world's number one. country of AI, research, tech. You want. to get access to my Microsoft, Google,

etc. Then behave yourself. Come study, get your job and be happy with your. life. Once you become a citizen, let's. start protesting, right? But not now. That's how the system is. We got to call a spade a spade out here. >> Fair. Fair. Our smaller countries can't. do that. US can. >> US can. >> They can and they are. >> Which is which is fair. Okay. Tell me. what about there's a there's a big fake. visa, fake university letter, you know,

all that scam which goes on. There's an. agent in the middle and they they scam. you. What are the scams which happen in. this world? >> Oh lord. M. >> you know the in our country. >> and possibly around the world people. confuse a counselor and an agent. >> A counselor is somebody who works with. your child. >> understands what your child's strengths. are, what your child's weaknesses are, what the right program is, what the. right university is. They were doing.

exercises like we were doing trying to. understand where your career would go, where what kind of future, what kind of. course. An agent is a contractor of a. university. An agent's job is to send. you to that university. There's a. fiduciary relationship between that. agent and that university. And what will. blow your mind is how the system works. >> Tell me, >> a university has an aggregator. The. aggregator has an agent, the agent has a.

sub agent who's then dealing with. possibly a family sitting in Mumbai. So when someone says my counseling is. free, free for whom? People are getting paid on all these. different levels. So there is no such. thing as free counseling. That's what. agents do. Now again to clarify, I'm not. saying all agents are bad and all. counselors are good because you can have. a bad counselor and a good agent. What. I'm saying is there should be. transparency of who is paying the person.

who's advising you to go abroad and. study and what is the financial. incentive today? If an agent is getting. paid by five universities, will he. recommend university number six? Why? There's no incentive. No one's paying. him. Five are paying him. Let's. recommend five. The danger is now a a. good child with a good profile who's got. everything going for him. That child is. now going to this agent who's sending. him to a substandard university because. he's getting paid there. It's a clear.

problem. >> So does it ever happen that the. university doesn't even exist. >> on student land of there? >> You know, I've I've heard of such cases, but those cases are harder now because. the consulates and embassies are vetting. visas. So in all developed countries. they're they're getting official. confirmation from universities and only. then issuing visas. Earlier these things. could happen because there was lack of. communication between a university and. an embassy. Now things are connected. You can't go down that route. Now what.

can happen is there are universities. let's say in the US who have something. called CPT. CPT is basically permission. to work from the day you get into your. course. If that work is central to your. degree and hence it exists. There are. some universities which will just give. you CPT and allow you to go work. elsewhere. That scam is also now being. closed. That loophole is being closed. So there were agents who would say hey. go to this university and your real. intention is not to study. Your. intention really is to go work and not.

like proper work like in terms of. skilled work rather. >> but just go work randomly because you. have a better life abroad than what you. have back in India. Those scams are now. shutting because countries are becoming. smarter. They don't want people to just. come and hang around and take jobs that. locals could do. >> I heard this used to happen in Europe. like Italy, Germany etc. that a an agent. here would show them dreams of XYZ.

university it's big this and that send. the kid there then the kid finds that oh. I have ended up in some very small. village in middle of Italy and the. university is this much and there's. nothing people don't even speak English. here and they all speak Italian apart. from that one professor whose class. you've ended up into and it's a. university. >> that happens I you know and. >> how to how to wet that a person should. like how how can a person not lend in. land in this situation.

>> see number one is when you're going to. an agent who's not charging you money. that itself should be your first red. flag second is fine surveys in the UK. university UK survey showed that 55% of. UK universities use agents so fair. enough the the business exists agents. exist if it's going to be free for you. go to the university's website, study. it, make a call to the university, find. alumni of that university. That's your. biggest source of information and.

understand firsthand what this person is. saying about their education. That will. ensure that you're not getting fooled. >> How can you make such an important. decision of spending so much time and so. much money and going to a place you've. never heard of in the middle of nowhere. just because your education year is not. good? Now there are so many people who. are going to Eastern Europe for. medicine. They have to because they're. not getting admission into seats in. India. They're not getting admission. here. So they have to go. Now their.

problem is is the degree recognized by. the medical council of India. When they. come back to India, are they able to. practice? Then we open a whole different. can of worms for that. But why are they. going? And if you go to the Y part is. because of scarcity. We don't have. enough here. We don't have capacity. >> What's happening to those students? The. medical ones, many of them are in a. problem. >> Jobless. >> Many of them are jobless. They've got to. take on paramedical jobs where licensing. is rather loose. >> Or can they like open up a clinic in.

India and just write that XYZ doctor. from Ukraine? >> Sure. If they want to get arrested and. be put in jail. Yeah. Otherwise, no. Legally, no. >> No. Legally, no. They can't. >> No. To call yourself a medical doctor, you need to be recognized. Your program. needs to be recognized by the MCI. misrepresenting yourself otherwise. So that's an important thing that. >> and the body doesn't recognize these. people. >> So MCI does recognize certain institutes. but you also have to take our own. entrance test when you come back to. India and many of the students fail that.

test. It's not an easy test. >> like what will happen with them? Many of. them like I said have to do paramedical. stuff which is not in the mainstream of. medicine which doesn't require licensing. work with private hospitals in lower. positions which doesn't need you to be. certified as a doctor there's always a. way out there's always hope in life I. would never ever tell. >> but the dream of becoming doctor just. ended. >> the dream. you will have to come down so much.

because you made that decision now when. you make. >> but they didn't know at the time when. they were making the decision. >> they didn't know as in was it not your. own responsibility to do homework and. find that out. Today someone comes and. tells you, "Yeah, go to this. university.". >> Okay, go do your homework. Speak to 10. people then go. No, >> if you're going to spend that time and. effort, then I'm sorry, you're to blame. >> Fair. And when you do all of this, people get in the university. It's. great. We were talking about jobs.

earlier. I was reading that even if you do. everything right, it's very uncertain to. get a job. There's never a 100% guarantee. >> Can you be sure short that you end up. actually getting a job? Will you. actually ever get a job with shortity? >> 100%. If you're looking at that number. one 0, answer is no. There is no one 0. in life. Your visa is not one 0. Admission is not 1. By the way, we're. talking about four different actors.

here. Your admission is decided by your. university. Your visa is decided by your. consulate or your embassy. Your job, it is decided by your company. And your PR is by a government policy. Trying to bundle all four into one. decision is not going to happen. These. are four separate decisions made by four. different entities. Don't bundle them. And there's no 100% on either of the. four. >> There are different strategies for all.

four of them. >> Absolutely. That is where the road map. comes in. the plan comes and how are you. going to target all four. but to say that any of those four. decisions that I want 100% I'm sorry. nobody can give you if anyone is giving. you that guarantee run as fast as you. can because it doesn't exist. >> but what should a student do in their. year one or like from month one which. increases their chances of getting a job. because a lot of people when they are.

applying for job after two years of. doing their masters they realized oh. >> I'm going to tell you this I'm I'm going. to answer this by telling you the story. which you're really going to relate to. >> so there's there was this kid again who. was in the first year of college and. he's like you know what. >> one of the ways which I'm going to. really stand out later when I apply for. my main jobs is showing that I have. prior experience and how you going to. get prior experience by networking. networking is your key today that boy.

was in a vertical campus in a university. in New York now why vertical because New. York doesn't have space and when it's a. nice big green campus you know there are. many on campus jobs that you can apply. for. So everyone told him that listen. you're in a vertical campus there are no. jobs he's like we'll see prints out his. resume goes to the 17th floor from the. 17th floor keeps going floor to floor. introducing himself handing the resume. out everywhere by the time this boy. reached the fourth floor he got a call. back please come up there is a vacancy. we'd like to talk to you interviewed in.

person next day he had a job from there. because he had that conviction. I want a. Now when you're going with such strong. conviction from day one as a student you. go start networking I'm going to get my. job what are people saying on campus. jobs are not available let me go try 17. floors three offices per floor I'll try. every single floor he landed up with his. job. >> so you're telling that from day one. student should print out the rums that.

just keep giving to people. >> well not just keep there's a strategy. behind it. >> what's the strategy you keep you keep. saying networking networking what's the. strategy behind networking you just do. you just don't go to random strangers be. like hey I'm Raj hey hey I'm Raj give me. a job no it can't work like that. >> I'm going to tell you exactly what is. the best strategy that now students have. to start using if they really really. want to find employment.

there it is so. the strategy what they use has to be. something called what I like to call. match. >> mm First is map the market. Let's say. there are 20 30 jobs that you want. Put. those 20 30 jobs in AI okay GPT whatever. you use and find out the common skills. What are the skills that all these jobs. have in common then a assemble your. evidence take your resume put it back in. that AI. Don't say fix my resume is the. most ridiculous prompt you can give.

Find out what skills are missing. Do you. need to learn Python? Do you need to. learn some kind of finance? Do you need. to learn something about product. management? What is that skill you are. missing? Then t is get target the entire. ecosystem of companies that are there. You may have thought of 20 30 but ask. what are the smaller companies? Have I. missed any segments in this domain where. the jobs are available? Then the C part. is um combining networking with AI. So.

for example use AI to find out where. alumni are working of your university. where people are working find out. information about them what did they do. to succeed find out intell like do. intelligence on them don't use AI to. send an email to them because everybody. can read these emails which are written. by write the email yourself but connect. your networking with AI and H finally. hone your skills use AI to train you for. interviews AI can please you as much as. you like tell it stop tell it listen.

give me a critical analysis of where I'm. weak what are my problem points what are. the issues that I have tough interviews. with me this is what I call a proper. strategy the match strategy to find your. job. >> and you do this over and over again. again and you end up getting a job. >> so this is not like sending 100 rums to. random companies and just hoping. that's not going to happen in today's. world you know networking we keep saying.

but faceless networking is now dying. You know in the world of AI it's very. easy again to send all these resumes to. to send all these emails but the end no. a human only gives a human a job. You. have to understand that meeting people. going out there networking means letting. someone remember your face. You're not. just a PDF. You're not just an email. If. you don't meet people if you're not. going to go out you're not going to. create those connections when it comes. time for you to find your job. You're.

not going to succeed. Here are last two. questions I have. One is one thing not. many people talk about is a cost of. cost of going abroad on an emotional. point from an emotional point of view. like going abroad going away from family. specifically in Indian family it gets. very lonely mentally taxing you are in a. different community you are alone. different people different region you're. probably not very extrovert.

and you you face problems don't you feel. so. >> I agree I mean it's not easy to adjust. at any age you know whether you're 17. going at for an undergraduate program or. if you're 20 21 going for a masters or. 25 going for an MBA there always is an. adjustment period. >> how lonely can it be. >> it can become very lonely I was so. lonely when I was studying there that it. took me more than 6 months to actually. adapt to that kind of loneliness today.

things are easier easier because you. have communication. I still have parents. who wake their children up in the. morning, go to class because with. WhatsApp, with other forms of of. telecommunication that you have, you're. constantly on FaceTime with your with. your child. You're always talking to. your child. That has reduced to a very. large extent the loneliness factor. Second is the when when somebody's. leaving from here, they've already been.

exposed to a lot of things that are. going to happen in that country. Whether. it's through TV series that they're. watching, through friends that they're. making. That makes the adjustment period. easy. This is not to say that loneliness. is never going to come. You are going to. be lonely. You're going to miss home. You're going to cry in your first. semester. You're going to question why. did you even come here? But once that. transition period happens, you're going. to know that this is the best thing that. ever happened to me. You'll be like, "Wow, I'm blown away with what I'm. learning, the people I'm meeting." But.

it is something that we should address. because mental health is also very. important. And sometimes one of the. tests we do right in the beginning to. see whether you should go abroad to. study or not is can you handle that kind. of pressure? That pressure today where. you're in an unfamiliar environment. cleaning your own clothes. You'd be. surprised how many students don't know. how to use a washing machine or how many. students don't know how to make a basic. meal. These are basic survival skills. that they would never needed to learn. but now they have to. Coupled with that. that though there is no mom and dad in.

the background. There's no brother and. sister in the background. Friendships. are different. This is a big one today. The again I feel that the level of. relationships and friendships we make. back home here are very deep. They're. very deep rooted. There's a lot of depth. to our relationship. This does not exist. in most parts of the world. >> Exactly. >> More is like, "Hey, I'm your friend. So, how's your day going? I hope you're. doing well today. How's the weather?". And that's it. >> So, that adjustment also is not easy for. a lot of people. It takes time to. understand. And that's why you see.

sometimes a lot of Indians are going to. hang with the Indians because they feel. okay, they understand me. They. understand that okay, I'm just coming over to your house. I. don't need to really call you before. coming. You can't do that in other. countries. You need to call, give. notions, make a plan. You need to have a. little bit of boundaries. We don't have. that boundaries in our relationships and. people miss that. >> Fair. And but you know even after saying. all of these things which you said that. we communicate, we are in touch people. are communicating they are exposed to.

the world right there. I was reading a. recent UK survey where they found out. that about 58% of international students. report loneliness. So even though all. these tools are available and they're. exposed, they still face agree 8%. >> It's a fact of life. It's growth. Today. without adversity, how can you grow? If. you didn't feel that loneliness, how. will you appreciate your parents, family, and whatever you left back home? How. >> just for appreciation, you shouldn't go. No, >> but if you don't go through adversity,

how are you going to grow in life today? If you don't suffer, where is happiness. coming from? It's the same logic out. here. You have to go through that. loneliness. >> You feel that's the phase. And how can. somebody decide that they can handle. that phase or no? again is a way to b. >> based on their past based on whether. they have managed to let's say live in a. boarding school for some time gone for a. summer program these are small. indicators that we can judge of whether. they can cope or not but statistically. even if you look at dropout rates. because we can look at that to measure.

most of your top universities have a 99%. retention rate for international. students specifically from India which. means that our students are coping. >> they're figuring out how to. >> they're figuring they're figuring out of. course they But the figuring out also is. because remember some of them go with no. choice. So then you're like loneliness. let's deal with it and move on. Maybe. it's a good thing. Maybe it's because. you're giving them a mechanism to cope. with their loneliness. >> Which is the most unsafe country to go.

right now. >> So students have reported that when. you're in major cities like London, crime rates of petty theft and petty. crimes have gone up. they need to be a. little bit more careful in terms of. safety. Most of the west is safer than. some of the places we have here. So we. never really face the safe issue. What I. tell students is go to places which have. a large concentration of international. students. So then things like racism,

things like you being targeted for your. skin color, those things don't happen. because you're already in such a. international environment. >> Fair. Here's the last question. The. question which everybody. should you stay back or come back. >> first again map out what you're going to. be doing there if you're going to. staying back making your career making. sure that you get a job that you truly.

enjoy doing. >> but who should. >> stay for a few years. >> who should stay and who should come back. >> say if you have okay to be honest if you. have something really good going for you. back home come back. India has great opportunity. We have a. great future. We're growing at a. phenomenal pace. Come back and be part. of the India growth story. Bring your. skills back here. Use the GCC's as an. example. Set up your own companies. The. growth you can get from your companies. serving a billion people you cannot get. anywhere in the world.

>> Be that person. Now, if you don't want. to be that person and you want to be the. person working absolutely fine. There's. no judgment here. Both are great. options. Take the second option. Get a. good job in a country where you want to. work in a role that you're truly. enjoying. Don't get stuck at a job just. because you have to work for the next 5. years, 7 years and then come back. Someone asked me recently 5 crores or. happiness? Choose one. I said 5 crores. Why? Why would you think I would select. happiness? First work for maybe four.

five years, collect a good sum of money, then choose a path that you want to be. in and get your happiness from that. path. You cannot just make it so. abstract that okay you know it's going. to be this or that. So evaluate what. your goals are and then take a call. >> Here's the last question. Okay I I I. said that I'm going to have you this. last I'm going to ask you this last. question but here's one. Okay. It's a. Tell me the most underrated country to. go today.

for great opportunity, great studies. So I would think the most underrated. country right now. definitely my answer is going to be. parts of Europe. I would say if I have. to name one country which I think you. still can go and try to uh make your. future, try to get a good education, look at Spain. Spain is a great. destination.

>> Why? >> They're giving you a postgrad. entrepreneurship visa which is allowing. you to set up a business in Spain. I. think that is very good because let's. say you learn Spanish, set up a business. out there. You can actually make a good. life for yourself there. Spain is home. to some very good universities. I. university um ESA is Sard. You have such. good brand names out there. It's. welcoming for international students. It's got all the things I would want to.

check box for a student for a country. >> Interesting. See, one podcast is not. going to be enough for people to find. out these things. Okay. Because it's a. complicated issue. Just spending one and. a half hour, two hours is not going to. help them. Is there a way that they can. probably learn in depth which acts as a. guide for them before they decide. to go abroad and whether going abroad is. good for them or bad for them? >> I would recommend people should read my. book the admission diaries.

>> Okay. >> So the book that I've written it's a. very unique perspective on college. admissions. It's not a traditional how to guide. And. people often ask me, why did you not. write a how-to guide? How to get into. Harvard? >> Howard admission in 10 steps. A, that. book doesn't exist. B, because the whole. concept doesn't exist. If I had to write. a how to book, information would expire. faster than I wrote the book itself. Today, the moment we start talking about.

a visa, it changes. We talk about a. strategy, it changes. So information expires, judgment does. not. So what I've done is through a. series of 33 short stories I have spoken. about things that matter. So. universities and university discussions. is not really about universities. It's. not about rankings, admissions, SOPs, essays. It's more about fear, ambition, love, letting go, parents,

siblings. That's what it really is. And. today we may map out a life for a child. but the child may want something else. altogether. >> And that's why I wrote the admission. diaries because I feel information will. expire. Judgment will travel. >> Fair. So we're going to put out a link. here. Let people find out your book and. I hope whoever is going. learns and understand.

everything before they go and end up in. bad situation because if they are going. with clarity they can probably make a. really good life but if they're not it. can be troublesome as well. I hope this. podcast helps and thank you so much. >> Thank you Raj it was a pleasure to be. here today. >> Thank you. >> Thank you for watching this episode till. the end. We would love to know what you. liked or disliked about this episode and. which guests you would like to see on. the show. Let us know in the comments. Your feedback help us improve and make.

every episode a little better. I'll see. you next time. Until then, keep figuring. out.