Future Technologies, IT Sector, Startups & More ft HCL Co-Founder Ajai Chowdhry | FO111| Raj Shamani

the world's best salesman is Narendra. Modi he has done an outstanding job. whenever he goes abroad he creates an. image for him yeah if we look at. governments yes this government has. taken very good solid decisions and as. far as my area is concerned which is. electronics they have taken fantastic. decisions.

biggest mistake what was the salary of. HCL executive at Peak close to a crore. important episode. with somebody. India technology. Foundation. the co-founder of HCL Mr Ajay Chaudhary. companies.

I'm sure. foreign.

thank you.

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foreign. and six of us left and we were doing uh. calculators and then we were doing.

computers we just started computers so. our thinking was that uh why stay in. this big company we'll get constricted. let's come out and do it on our own and. that's how it all started and then very. interestingly the microprocessor was. making its appearance. that year itself it was coming out. so we said why can't we take the. microprocessor and change the world and.

that's really what our dream was that's. how we started that's uh it was started. as simple there was nothing like. of big Vision a big mission a culture. document what's up. that's why there wasn't a fortunate oh. yeah so computer 700 million people. hmm.

large company so we had that data. interesting yeah. now we're going in the right Market was. that any year well actually. it. you sort of seize New Opportunities and. when you seize a new opportunity. you you then figure out how big that.

opportunity will be so each of them add. up okay you're not doing one thing at a. time you're doing many things that you. do some of them work some of them fail. and that's the way business is created. so you look at how to create each of. these businesses based on opportunities. that you keep seeing and at different. times of the company we saw different. opportunities right so you kept getting. one yeah that's how it worked when you. look at a company okay when you look at.

any company. what do you think are the three main. things. that you would want to look at or any. company at the beginning should decide. or should have very clear statement on. specific three things which will decide. whether the company will become big or. no are there any specific three things. these are all buzzwords at the end of. the day I invest in a lot of startups. and when I invest in startups I look at.

uh I think the first thing I look at is. the founders. and if I find that the founders are good. then the idea. right so if I find these two good then. only I invest now if I don't find the. founders selling see sometimes. there are four Founders three founders. and I certainly find that a team.

it's not got the right mix of talent. see the right mix of talent for a. startup is let's say one guy is a very. solid marketeer the other guy is a solid. techie the third guy is a nice Finance. type guy and a fourth guy is a good Ops. guy now that's perfect yeah but you. never get anything perfect right you get. a mix of these things so depends on what. one sees if we can see that and then if.

I invest in them then I always tell them. that get another co-founder who can fill. up this spot. um. because employee alone is not good. enough you should have a good co-founder. who can actually act as let's say a. finance guy so you believe that a. startup should have multiple co-founders. absolutely but they say that if you have. two like two three is still manageable. five six seven co-founders it actually. turns out to be a huge kitchen.

it is all a question of a specific team. there's nothing generic about it. some some people work some people don't. but at least three founders is a good. number. a single founder I tend to have issues. with and I also have issues with husband. wife okay Founders why. you know. I found that husband wife Founders uh.

they sometimes. one is carrying the other. so if the woman is the main founder and. she has a husband she's literally. carrying him along. in the other case the same thing happens. that the guy carries her along it's. which created to create a private. limited company. it's not necessary that they are both. very good but I have found some of them.

who are very very good it's not that. everything is you know generalized of. course and there are exceptions to the. rule. and I always watch out for some of these. things because. single founder I find that people. tend to. uh not worry about their investors. they create what I what we call a. lifestyle company. a lifestyle company is where.

a single owner or founder decides to. create a company does things and doesn't. need to worry about growth or. profitability because all he needs to. worry about is his family and his salary. and amount he earns and she or she earns. that's it it becomes lifestyle so they. though they don't grow. for an investor it's very important that. they grow interesting take I've never. thought of single Founders is that no no.

we we deal with this thing day in and. out here you know because we have. invested in hundreds of companies from. Indian Angel Network and I'm on the. board and we we invest regularly. foreign.

ER who is really good at being a techie. and Ops his strengths are technology and. operations my strength of marketing and. finance combination. so that's the right combination if you. have these four pieces you're good we. still have gotten other pieces obviously. to solve but that's that's the whole. thing comes in the next stage. you can hire people to add on you know. at some stage you can also have a. co-founder you can have somebody you can.

keep some stock separately yeah and uh. get that co-founder in of course we need. we will at one point obviously as the. company grows we probably need to fill. up a couple of other roles and shoes so. I've already kept certain level of. equity aside for that from day one we. are counting for that that one day we'll. have to give it away ten percent a piece. we should keep away we have kept it. we've kept it aside to do it and while. you were talking about the the couple. founder right so there's one couple.

founder who I am very inspired by and. I've seen them closely working and I. feel they are one of the exceptions that. you were also talking about that they. are Mama's Founders Ghazal Environ I. know them right they are exceptionally. good no they're both very you really. like them and what I really like about. them and I've said so many couple. Founders but specifically them because. every time you meet them it feels like. one compliments other that's the main. important thing if the complementarity.

is there there's no problem. but if somebody is carrying somebody. else that's a problem okay how do you. look at leadership how do you. because I feel to in order to build a. great company. you need to be a great leader more than. anything else. do you agree that with that or no. because. you can get an operator to run the. operations you can get a techie to solve. technology for you you can get great. investors to put it out right but if. you're not the great leader who is.

actually getting every piece together. and driving them towards one particular. Vision I think the whole company falls. apart you see. there are multiple definitions of. leaders. in my in my thinking a leader is. somebody who actually leads. and leads not just in one area but in. many many areas. leading by example is exceedingly. important for a leader if he or she does.

not have that built-in then you can't be. a leader. the second most critical aspect of every. business is sales right I always tell. startups that if you have a CEO who's. not a salesperson you're going to feel. thank you yeah yeah because at the end. of the day salesmanship is exceedingly. important look my book has chapter full.

chapter on salesmanship you know and. it's I call it the way of life if you. don't know how to sell you really are. missing out on a very important life. skill true. every stage of your life every part of. your life your. definitely selling something or the. other. you're selling an idea you're selling uh. a trip like I talk about it in my book. that once I wanted to go by bicycle from.

jabalpur to Bhopal I had to sell that. idea to my mother my mother would not. allow it she would say damn it something. is going to happen to you on the way. you know what you want to do but you. have to sell the idea no and all three. of us who offer or yeah three of us were. actually taking this bicycle trip we had. to go and sell it to our parents room. so each of these are different kinds of. sales activities you have to sell to. your wife all the time. [Laughter].

I'm the CEO in my company and I'm hard. course into just sales myself. I I mean I had a lovely startup four. years ago we were working everything was. working fine but then I told the guy. he's a brilliant I IIT technology. technical guy and he was capable of.

selling but he didn't know how to sell I. told him I'm going to get you a very. good coach who will teach you how to. sell. when you right away you should get that. coaching done. then they suffered like hell okay. okay.

sales was important.

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it is fundamentally based on. this analysis okay so when you walk into. a customer premises in a B2B situation. you need to either. address him or her as a parent. or you address him or her as an adult or.

you address him as a teacher. so for example you walk in and you start. to talk. parent child relationship. foreign.

the most critical aspect.

of a leader is people management got. difficulty. you cannot be successful. so I in my book I've called it the. people tree people tree people tree okay. because it's a tree and it's.

or the most critical aspect of creating. an organization. Hardware. foreign.

average salary whose average salary pay. for six continuous years. HCL was the most loved company among. employees.

number one in the country why. because the involvement that we created. of people. the connect that we created of the. people with the company was phenomenal. and we did so many things to make it. happen. ing. [Music]. are we very book launches.

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literally every day. and go and sit with somebody and have a.

cup of tea. or go somewhere else and say Anil how. are things going for you. now a kind of thing which you create. which creates a connect is very. different you remember though questions. I don't want to call it old or anything. let's say traditional way of leadership. very people oriented this is Zach Welch.

okay. employees. startup world go ahead they say Steve. Jobs right see Steve Jobs. foreign.

like uh in the case of Steve Jobs they. used to say that if you got into a lift. with him either you got jobs or you got. Steve yeah.

um. look when I chose the title of my book I. called it just Aspire the whole. objective of that was that if people can. Aspire a company can Aspire a country. can expire Aspire we can be successful. we don't need resources for it okay like.

maybe. a is greater than r. aspiration is greater than resources so. if you have the aspiration resources. Apple. subscribe. um.

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and we created a joint sector company. now this is what is a is greater than R. we had aspiration we didn't have. resources what resources happened. interesting obviously leadership.

managers. don't like to give bad news.

to the employee so even if they want to. give. um. how will you improve. you have to tell him or her. across the table yeah. what is the way to make it better this. needs to be given as as soon as possible. don't keep it back I should not wait no. no no not at all.

because he or she deserves better. because you know better so you should be. giving that advice at the right time not. missing out on that. you know so yeah bad news.

that's a very bad idea. okay in HCL in some parts of our company. where it was very service oriented we. used to have monthly appraisals. um.

he has lost one year and you have lost. one year both both important. startups differences.

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of the deal so much. foreign.

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technical capability. name money. not invented years in room. or syndrome. um.

biggest mistake. worldwide.

two very big mistakes. but you so listening to the customer is. very important. there are rumors. [Music]. definitely Google.

they are doing exceptionally good work. another recent companies. if you look at global companies. I think the. one of the most amazing companies was. Kodak. but the most disastrous company was also. codec because. they were far ahead in terms of in.

Inventions. but they did not pick up their own. inventions on time. you look look they were in the uh film. business yeah and their cameras never. made as much money as the film music. at that time.

they had a digital camera. they had invented the first digital. camera. and for 10 years they didn't sell it. because it would have destroy the. existing business. and then somebody else came and. destroyed it the Japanese came in and. destroyed it. so I have been to their uh you know uh. complete Museum of inventions it's just. mind-boggling.

so very interesting company very. different India Company. interesting nothing sort of. Springs up like that uniquely. but if you look at uh. which is the most gutsy company it's. reliance. why do you say that Reliance takes very. very big bits and for a country of our. size.

big bets are important. as a country look. at. it. we get stuck with. uh at the lower end of the market. um.

uh. software services. was a fantastic business when it started. 20 years ago it's still a fantastic. business. but what's happened there. margins have fallen. has become commodity right everybody can. do what we are doing. yes we can do it better yes we have. better marketing yes we have 30 market. share but we are still at the low margin.

end of the business. spirit. so I spiritually. Services see it was actually a group of. people inside nascom okay they said. they don't take interest at the high end.

of the market what is the high end of. the market products. software products so they came out and. they said we will be the. inner manner the organization that will. create software products in India. and they created an ecosystem in 10. years from the time they started today. there are hundreds of software product. companies there's a company like Zoho. which is located in a village in Tamil.

Nadu headquarter. it's a one billion dollar company. Product Company so we as a country have. to move from low margin to high margin. and therefore my personal Mantra from. what I've set up a foundation called. epic and my personal mantra for the. country is that India should be a. product Nation. if we remain a Services country not. creating products if we just manufacture.

Electronics where charya Arts percentage. in Hardware my Mantra which I am telling. the government and I've written a white. paper it's been accepted. India must be a product Nation India. must be a product nation in everything. that we do we should not work on just. low margin business. and that's the big change we have to.

make as a country. I'm not just talking Electronics. everywhere so this is the kind of. thinking that reliances. they want to be the largest in hydrogen. I mean that's the right thing to do it's. a right big bed to take so I think we. need more and more people to take big. bets I hope tatas take a big bet in. semiconductors they're talking about. spending 90 billion dollars I hope they. do because it's required for some of. these large houses to take big bets.

India is playing very big on hydrogen. right. big or nitrogen India is playing very. big on electric also we are the world's. largest in two wheelers electric so. electric Tata is playing big game. hydrogen Reliance is playing big game. so I think government is in for favor of. yes both the sustainability yes yes yes. very critical. we have to be the world leaders in. sustainability. um. so for example uh I've been working on a.

from my Foundation I've been working on. a concept which is uh the Consumer. Affairs Ministry wants to take forward. based on what uh Prime Minister Modi. talks as life okay concept. sustainability. we are working on a concept of uh making. India uh uh where making having it a. policy in India which is a repair policy.

repair repair okay right to repair no. right to repair policy. will be one of the largest in the world. if we do that and the first okay. sometimes you have to wait immediately.

it's very expensive to get it repaired. right all these Brands whether you look. at phones or you look at cars if you. have a Mercedes and you have to get it. repaired you are dead because the cost. of Parts is. coming up with the right to repair law. and we have written the paper for the.

government. from my foundation called epic we have. written the paper which is on right to. repair in electronics hmm so it's 150. page report that we have given to them. they are now going forward and there and. very soon a law will be passed in the. country where every brand. will have to give their spare parts. their circuit diagrams everything has to. be made available to anybody in the. world in the country.

right and that will enable. bringing the cost of service down. dramatically. our country we can't afford to have you. know go to Apple was. I had bought a Samsung TV in Goa goato. we are on the river. so I called Samsung and I said yeah.

foreign. that answer was wrong. they can repair it but they won't repair. it. I know a fact facility in Bangalore. which will repair it for 5000 rupees.

because they want to make money from it. okay if you have seen. you have been in the system you've been. in the game of building business of. taking things forward since very long. time and I've seen a lot of governments. and leaderships as well right do you. think there's something about the. current leadership which is very. different than the previous leaderships. or do you think that at scale mostly. every leadership or every government is.

working in favor of the country and. taking things forward or do you feel. this government. they are very very aggressive in taking. things forward and take big thinking big. and take making India the biggest player. in the world. do you feel there's any any difference. they hear. the Indian mind is useless Indian mind. in my mind in my thinking is the best in. the world reason you go to any.

University the our brownies breed the. whites every day yeah. there's a common joke. as a result of which I think there is a. lot of capability in US. and we should we should respect that. capability and that is the capability. that will carry us forward okay so if we.

look at governments. yes this government has taken very good. solid decisions and as far as my area is. concerned which is electronics they have. taken fantastic decisions. for the first time we are doing exactly. what we should have been doing 25 years. ago. I wrote many reports for the government. and I kept saying that the electronic. import bill of India will be higher than. the oil bill. nobody was listening.

all that the politicians used to do or. the bureaucrats used to do is to repeat. my line. and then somewhere it got dropped off. now it's happening Electronics is really. happening we are exporting Electronics. today which should have been what we. should have been doing many years ago. so I think this government has done very. good work it's not that uh earlier. government did not like aadhar was. created at the time of Congress hmm.

but who took it to. its absolute end Pete this government. because through aadhar they delivered. money at to the farmer in one minute. so the implementation is fantastic. hmm. yeah that's one thing definitely in last. I don't know if that's because of. government that's because of Indians or. that's because of the companies or the.

people or sentiment I have no idea why. is that or maybe combination of. everything but around the world. India image. like everybody started seeing India as a. positive big emerging economy job logo. like it's no more small my love. it's crazy the Indian brand has been. created by many Indians nah it's not.

just that it's created by Narendra Modi. exactly Modi has done an outstanding job. and I write in my book also that the. world's best salesman is Narendra Modi I. have no problem writing that but he has. done an outstanding job whenever he goes. abroad he creates an image for him yeah. I mean the number of people to come who. come to hear him is just phenomenal. exactly and this whole concept that they. created which is of course like a cadder. the RSS scatter which is Friends of BJP.

is amazing they just gather people in. drone droves and they come to listen to. it yeah that's part one but this part. two also which got created the Indian. mind has been recognized Global yeah. so software created that the scientists. created that the researchers created. that. uh uh a government organization like. ISRO created that we are leaders in.

space. you know so we are leaders in nuclear. right we have done a lot of work in. these areas despite sanctions against us. you see so I think uh it's combination. of a lot of combination of lot of things. the last question. actually those second last time. specifically.

there's nothing called the startup as I. told you. government was not interested in Chota. Mota company like. ourselves. they were all we were a closed country.

we had a closed mind we had very. socialist thinking and we were living. inside a well that's exactly what we. were as a discussion a good difference. but the. capability of those customers today.

because of what we discussed earlier. that availability of information is. phenomenal today so the customers those. days you could easily come out them. because you knew more than them. the other major change that has occurred. today for a startup is that the. environment is fantastic for startups. today. the government has a startup scheme all.

kinds of funding is available lots and. lots of incubators are there a lot of. angels are there who are willing to. Mentor the lots of VCS have come in. funds are available at every level of. your growth you can start from seed. funding Angel funding VC funding we see. a b c e d e f g Summit and then you have. a Chota Stock Exchange where you can go. for a IPO or a bra Stock Exchange where. you can go for everything is available. for funding.

so that's a very major major change the. second thing that's happened is that the. Technologies available today to create a. company themselves are totally different. you see today you have so many things. going for you in terms of what you can. learn what you can do what you can. create and the market has expanded. dramatically. there's so many new verticals yeah. courses.

so you know there's a very major. difference yeah and in our time the only. way to learn was go and listen to a. teacher today the learning model has. totally changed I mean you can learn. from any Professor anywhere in the world. yeah you have to listen to your boring. professor in your college you can go to. an MIT professor and learn from him. online or you can learn through this. podcast yeah so so many options are. there so I think the market has totally.

changed and. what has also happened is that failures. are also accepted. company. if you have actually failed into. startups and then go to a when you know. we see he'll respect you.

so these are very major changes that. have occurred and the market is so much. bigger everything that you can think of. so you need to find. where is that little noise that you can. convert to a signal. and if you can spot that on time ahead. of everybody you can make it. that is the trust. people in India now they've started. trusting in new brands they've started.

trusting new people. yeah. gen Z will buy. they will not bother about a brand. they will test abroad yeah so it's. totally different yes so you have you. have the whole Market available to you. sure. no that's 117 million gen z's are there. today here large number very big one of. the largest in the world. all right so last question of the day.

what was the salary of HCL executive at. Peak. upstairs. close to uh close to a crore what were. the other perks you would get as a. chairman. look I was a hardware company unlike a.

software company so software company May. same same chairman used to get five. crores or ten crores Okay so. perks were nothing much a Gadi military. drivers. we ran a company with. very. low overheads as compared to Global.

Hardware companies because that's the. only way we could compete thank you so. much sir for sharing your wisdom with us. and spending time with us I'm really. glad that I got to talk to you thank you. so much for being candid as well. foreign.

until the next episode keep figuring out. [Music].