From Idea To UNICORN - Step by Step EXPLAINED ft. Razorpay Founder Shashank Kumar | FO16 Raj Shamani

because we were first one to do this. we were able to clog in 30 crores in. revenue in just i think 60 days wow. that's and that was really [ __ ]. according to iit got a job at microsoft. started working in the us and then. started driving his dream car ford. mustang life sorted right nahi. he left all of that to come back to. india and started selling college after. college college after college at 45. degree heat on his bike. left all that comfortable life to do.

this and then realize that it's a. product bikini. from there on to now build a unicorn. a unicorn which is incredibly successful. in this country and is killing it razer. pay we're talking about founder of razer. p shashankumar and his story how did he. build all of this. what was the journey what was the. initial steps which helped him make a. behemoth which he has met and how he can.

help young entrepreneurs like you and me. build a behemoth like this we've talked. about all of this about his journey what. people can learn what are the mistakes. he made what are the key essential. things every startup founder should keep. in mind. what are the initial steps which we. should take how to find the startup idea. how to validate this startup idea and. how to grow week on week every week till. the time you become unicorn and even. after that. and today even after achieving all that. success all the work which he's doing to.

empower people like you and me by having. an incubator inside his organization. where he's gonna help more than five. lakh young entrepreneurs build a really. large organization and business do you. want this if yes watch this episode till. the end because this episode is gonna. blow your mind also this podcast is. brought to you by coin switch kuber coin. switch kuber is india's simplest digital. exchange and trading platform for crypto. currencies where you can start trading.

from only rupees 100 a simple fast safe. and secure platform which allows you to. start your crypto journey in the most. user-friendly way. first you come out of iit then you have. built a startup in a completely new. space which was not there in india then. you made it a unicorn now you have. become an angel so you are like a proper. startup story.

so i want to do this for everybody who's. watching for the first time let's say. okay okay and they have heard this word. called startup and they want to start it. out and they have these dreams of i want. to become someone i want to start of my. own so this podcast is going to act for. them as a guide like 101 to up. shashank's take on it okay can we do. this perfect all right so before we go. into that i want you to tell for that. 0.01 people who don't know what razer. pay is or who you are can you tell them.

quickly in 60 seconds what is razer pay. and what do you do address it razer pay. is providing payments and banking. solutions to businesses in the country. so the simple goal for us is like you. know helping businesses digitize right. uh you know supporting them in their. financial journey in their growth. journey and today you know right from. incorporation to providing payment. solutions to helping them with their. payroll taxation vendor payments uh. getting them their credit corporate card. helping them connect to investors we do. a whole bunch of activities you know.

and the simple aim is that you know any. point any business which is looking to. grow you know digitally uh we should be. able to uh support them through various. ways i tell you i'll make it easy for. everyone okay. in a much easier my version of it like a. total. so i found out razor pain. when pandemic just hit it was i think. march april. and i had run a completely offline. business. there are so many distributors there are. 30 other retail points we're looking out.

and now everything's shut we have a 21. day lockdown now what do i do must be. awful. that was horrible okay and there are 400. people team who i have to give salaries. and this is like a personal rule that. i'm not going to cut down anything. if it's just batsy so i thought why not. i do online business okay because. obviously there are people who are. killing it online ddc let me do it. is that when you start started on. instagram. yeah kinda okay.

i was on instagram before also. that's when i started like creating. content regularly because. i i was looking for alternative options. yeah. maybe of course i found out razer pay. and i built a store on shopify. i built my razer account. everything was up and running in 48. hours. wow and then my payments were getting. collected everything was happening i was. able to find out kisner. and for me it was at that time i didn't. know anything about it.

and then all of a sudden seven days into. it i'm guiding my other friends oh you. know what i'll help you out. [Laughter]. amazing. did to me it helped me build my online. store and we're grateful because. your team and i'm not making this [ __ ]. up okay. your team helped us within like in seven. days we were able to run everything. quickly in fact seven days i'm taking. too long it was like two through three. days where he was up and running gst is. registered everything was there oh nice.

and because we were first one to do this. we were able to clog in 30 crores in. revenue in just i think 60 days wow. that's and that was really [ __ ]. at a new product that's really. significant. so that was really good that's how i. found razer pay no that i mean you know. that story relates really well but you. know when panamic hit like there many. people who wanted to uh move online. right so i think i think we were very. focused that okay anyone who's looking. to move online like you know how can we. support them how can we enable them.

right and and that's panned out really. well so you know i think one thing that. has happened in last you know one and a. half years it's there's been such a huge. surge of you know smes and businesses. coming online right and and trying to. make internet work for them i think just. for growth of india you know just to. grow the growth of the ecosystem i think. people thinking about internet and. technology and you know figuring out. distribution over internet is just. perfect it's just what. you know uh this generation should like. really uh you know jump start on right.

like i think for for our parents and. others like you know it was mostly like. okay i have to get a job in banking or. government or stuff like that right even. 10 years back it was more like okay like. you know i have to become engineers. doctor that and and still. people do. but you know hopefully like like through. this thing like people should see right. like there's a lot more opportunity. present right and you can go through a. lot of unconventional paths as well yes. that is so unconventional part we go. right. back to basics okay. what is the first thing like now.

everybody wants to become. the part of growing india and wants to. contribute to the growth of india right. now what should be the first step they. should take what it boils down to is. that you know uh i want to solve a. problem right right that i'm really. passionate about right and and that's. something that you know i can't do in. the current setup or in the current way. and and you know i you can you really. think like okay like you know starting. up in that place will be you will be. will enable you to scale it right or. will enable you to solve that problem uh.

really really well you know because uh. at the end of the day like you know all. the glamorous side like i mean. entrepreneurship is really really really. hard right. and we have a lot of success we covered. so many success stories we don't cover. the failures too right so everyone sees. the top one percent uh people probably. and don't see the other 99 right uh but. it's still it's still a very fulfilling. thing to do but it will only work out if. you know if if you if you kind of want. to know you know that okay like i want. to solve this right i want to work on.

this and and that's what uh. it's all about right like you know uh so. when i started right i mean uh. we didn't think like okay like we are. building a startup or something like you. know we want to do something uh but me. and my co-founder so you know i was. doing my job in microsoft at that point. of time you know and my co-founder was. in schlamberger and uh. and and we're like we're like bored in. our jobs you know i was really bored in. my job you know it was fine it's a great. job microsoft is a great company no. doubt rating so it uh you know it's it.

was just a challenging job as well you. know uh. had a great life great great life in in. us. you know i used to drive a ford mustang. or something i used to travel a lot you. know it's all good but i didn't have. professional satisfaction i didn't feel. like. uh i am doing something meaningful with. my life with the amazing education that. i've got right uh and and so we me. me and hershey we know each other since.

college we started doing a side project. which was you know very simple we wanted. to build like a sort of a platform which. will enable donation culture in the. country in india so you know kind of. feel like people in our generation in in. white collar jobs in in you know in. cities like bangalore and delhi uh. we don't we don't believe in donating. anything or we don't donate anything. there's no culture around it like you. know for our parents people in three or. three tier four cities do you think of. okay i should donate something to the. temples give arms and all right so.

like okay how do how do i you know. enable that like what is like a digital. version of you know that old culture. around congregating around temples and. donating to people uh as there right you. know so we wanted to build something. around that okay and when we did that. you know we discovered as part of that. like we wanted to accept payments right. uh. and this was 2014 uh 13 14. uh so so. this was at a time when you know. obviously flipkart and all you know had. had become slightly big but it it was. still at a time where startup system was.

just taking off so when we start trying. to accept payments you know and and work. with the incumbents or the existing. providers. we encountered a lot of problems you. know uh things like like hey are you a. profitable business or do you have a. physical office space right or you know. uh uh what is like you know can you give. a fixed deposit security deposit uh and. and stuff like that right. so the it was such a painful experience. right uh and and we were like you was.

like you know it's just payments right. it's it's just a simple problem like you. know you are accepting money that's it. uh you know why do you need to ask so. many questions why do you need so many. details right because. startups coming up business is coming up. right uh. uh. they don't have those things right yeah. they would want to start up as soon as. possible accept payments and just start. running online right and and when we. check out the reviews and everything was. a very very negative experience. right and and we felt like okay we can.

do something about it we can we can. solve for this. uh and it appealed to me you know. because the problem statement appealed. to me because you know i have an. engineering background my co-founder has. an engineering background and payments. by it's by its nature is a very. technical problem you know because in. the end it's like you know moving bits. moving money stuff like that right so. so we thought like you know the people. who are probably running payment. companies they are mostly from sales. background right because they want to. sell yeah but we are like you know you. have mobile you have internet right i.

mean that said like you know you should. do everything digitally you should. accept payments digitally you should. make like a kick ass experience on. mobile you should allow people to go. live within minutes right and start. accepting payments like that's that's. just what we wanted to do and we felt. like you know that's something that we. can do right and this is an opportunity. to do that and and we're really. passionate. uh about that problem statement so. coming back to what you asked you know. like what is step one step one is just. not thinking about like i want to do a. startup step one is you know finding a.

problems problem that you know that you. really think you can dedicate like years. of your life to right that you feel like. okay this is something that. you know it can be uh something good and. and just like you know uh you did it you. know you just went online put something. up and started uh doing it right i don't. think you ever thought like okay like. you know i want to build like a large. company right like you know let's let's. just start right let's just do something. let's just put it out right and and and. see what is happening and you know.

that's how like the journey should. usually uh be that's so you the first. thing is wherever you are. you find out what is your problem and. you then try to find out is there a. solution for it or no and if there's not. and then you still feel. your problem is not helping me. sleep properly let me go figure out how. to make this how to solve this for a. large number of people right yeah i did. this in the second life i mean i call it. second life begin. my content creation journey and all of. this i called my second life.

so. this was. i was in peak pandemic okay again. before pandemic actually. and. i was doing my business. and at the same time i used to speak and. i was going to united nations to. represent india doing all of this i. should speak and i wanted somebody to. record all those speeches and put it on. social media so that which can handle my. personal brand. okay. and i thought there's no one who's. helping me out like i only have to make. get my videos done i only have to get.

the editing done i only have to think. about the scripts or the next thing. which i have to do i only have to think. about distribution i only have to think. about engagement one of them. so i thought this is a problem and i. started trying to find agencies like is. there somebody which can help me build. my personal brand online without me. paying much attention to it because if. i'll pay much attention here i won't be. able to build a business yeah yeah and. that was a problem which i felt. and while there was pandemic i thought. okay let me do it for myself once i. started doing for myself i started doing.

from my friends their other friends and. that i never knew that this would become. like an agency. so. it turned out to be like a business. which i still don't call it a startup or. something but it's just going on to the. side there was a problem which i thought. is problem for me started solving. because. this is what we promise right as an. entrepreneur i'm sure if i tell you that. okay you have to give. five hours in a day or ten hours in a. day to content creation journey you're. like [ __ ] off. you like my neopaega.

that's massive i don't want to do it. right but that's the amount of hours the. content creator are putting. so we go to entrepreneurs and be like. all you have to do is give us one hour. in a week. and then the entire week your audience. is gonna think that you're putting five. hours in a day. wow okay so now and that kicked. so that problem really like a lot of. entrepreneurs. who wanted to build their brand who. wanted to put the message out as an. individual as well. they related to that particular problem. and then our startup also kicked off.

right so that's now the step one finding. a problem what the step two bill problem. how what do we do about it it's a lot of. uh steps uh experimentation steps in. that sense right like you know when. think like okay i want to solve for this. right okay i think the next step is just. you know trying to understand what is. out there right like what are the. current solutions right what are the uh. markets that market looks like right and. and it doesn't need to be very.

exhaustive you think a club you know uh. you're going and talking to thousands of. people. may not be right. whoever you can access in your network. right i mean people around you your. friends. but usually like i think the filter you. like to apply like people who probably. be honest with you because you know if. you go and talk to your cousins and all. you know people who usually be. encouraging or otherwise very. discouraging both the sects both the. sets don't work out right.

or otherwise. you know i'll sign up for it you do it. you know you have my support both the. sets don't work out they both are toxic. so so to talk to people who would be. honest to you right it couldn't be it. could be you know your colleagues or you. know it could be just your acquaintances. who would give time to you uh that are. there people who can be signed into. sounding board or otherwise people you. know who. who you think like the problem will. affect right like for us when we are. thinking about payments right i mean we. talk to other entrepreneurs rates small.

entrepreneurs people who are you know. just like two three people company. people who want to accept payments. digitally or just look into startup and. they're like boss this i don't know what. this means right yeah uh i i don't. understand payments right it just sounds. complex you know oh many many physical. documents. uh legal agreements s. like why do you need to sign physical. documents right i mean. i don't know i mean nobody knows and and. we literally are you know tried to ask.

other people why do you need to sign. physical documents like you know is it. written somewhere is it managed. somewhere. like nobody knows nobody knows why do. you need to like you know it's it's. actually not written somewhere. eventually you figure out it's it's. because that's how things work i mean. that's how things have been right nobody. questioned it like okay like you know do. we really need legal agreements here uh. you know that's how people open bank. accounts so then. so that's what it sort of you know uh. because. and and we're like okay let's change it. like why it needs to be like that right.

and and that's that's what you know that. was the first thing yeah that was the. first first uh you know uh this thing. that okay like you know there is a real. problem here right this is and and we. can do things which are people need to. sign 10 documents why do people sign 10. documents why is the payment on mobile. not smooth like this was in 2g days. right. payments can fail and we would go back. and question see it's it's technology. right i mean if network breaks and. network comes back payment should still.

go through. right so just doing that study just. understanding the pain points just. understanding what you can bring to the. table at least knowing like okay what my. next three steps are you know it doesn't. need to be very complicated uh but you. know knowing what my three steps are and. at some point figuring out like okay am. i ready to commit to this because i. think that's. that's that thing is important right as. a step two or a step three that yeah. like you know i know. i have a semblance of what the problem. is what the market is and now i'm ready.

to you know. commit to solving this uh in some ways. okay let's let's make it uh more. structured okay. what are the essential questions which. somebody needs to answer as a step two. let's say you said number one is you. need to answer okay is this problem for. a lot of people as well yes you find out. that yeah then you find out what's the. market size and who are the existing. customer competitors in it that's number. two i i i wouldn't worry so much about. market size to be honest you know. because it's not usually clear what the.

market size is okay in some cases you. might you know like i think in case of. payments for example i think it's. visible but if you think of a lot of new. things right like food delivery or. otherwise take something like google. when it started you know there was no. market there was no market at that point. of time right so so i think it's fine. like you know good entrepreneurs good. people over time figure out how to. navigate these kind of things right i. think what what you're looking to answer. is like you know is there a future where. this can be big yeah. right is there is there a future where.

you can imagine like everyone doing. things a certain way a new way right. like for us you know obviously for. payment is very obvious you know because. payments itself is such a huge legacy. market right but the answer that we. wanted to you know get to was is there a. future where everyone is paying online. you know and that was clearly the case. right because they're like you know few. million customers who are paying online. and. and and it's going to be a billion. billion right so and similarly they have. very small number of businesses that. were accepting payments online and it's. again going to be in millions right i.

love it i love this answer okay i love. it that instead of asking what's the. market size you need to ask yourself is. there going to be a future where this. can be big enough or is there gonna be. future and then the third the first. question you ask yourself is is this a. problem for a lot of people as well. second is there a future when they when. with this solution. existing there's gonna be life as well. yeah and then the third question you ask. is like am i ready to build this future.

am i ready to commit yeah that until. this future becomes a reality i'm gonna. keep building it yeah and i'll tell you. uh you know see the that part around. future is what we call vision right and. you know that's what entrepreneurs. literally are supposed to bring that. vision to life because nobody knows what. that future looks like and if you tell. to people to you know most of the folks. they'll think you're crazy or they'll. not get you and that and that's. completely okay right uh. and and that is why that commitment step.

is a very significant important step you. know because it's a little bit of a leap. of faith right you don't have a proof. that this future can be real right you. only have conjectures or you know an. intuition right. uh and and this is the place where you. really back yourself to say yes i can do. this right and yes i give myself. permission to fail because you know most. likely you might fail right uh but you. know if you. the way i think about it is like you. know if you really can't lose sleep over.

a certain problem and if you don't. commit then at some point in your life. you're go absolutely going to regret it. i've never met one founder. uh you know who's like i regret taking. this step right and see you can think of. a certain. you know kind of thing when taking that. leap of faith usually like you know at. least you have some financial security. for you know next couple of years uh is. what i would say right because i think. two years is a good time like to try out. something new solve for something uh you. know if you look just look at a time. scale of three to six months i think.

it's very short right so if you have. some sort of financial security right or. if you know that you will be able to. give enough time right because because. you know if i don't like you know. depends on different people right but. but if you're getting married or you. know if you're just having a baby like. you know obviously you can still build. an organization and people do they're. great right but you might take a step. back and say like you know will i be. able to focus on this without uh. distractions right so. so and the commitment step is also. important because you know a lot of. people leave their jobs right like for.

me you know i left my life in u.s like. the whole lifetime. you left that yes. yeah that and and uh multiple other. things right to to come back to uh. jaipur of all places not bangalore. jaipur because my co-founder was from. jaipur and we thought like you know our. monthly spends will be really low and in. i was in seattle where the temperature. used to be like you know uh 10 degrees. at that point of time and i came to. jaipur where the temperature used to be. 45 degrees.

uh celsius i was literally like you know. okay i'll burn off here like that's how. the first week was right there were. electricity cuts right i would travel uh. you know with my uh with herschel on on. on on a motorcycle on on you know not if. did you think. at that time did you was like. like were there any points you thought. about it interestingly no you know. there was no point where uh that thought. came into my hashtag used to tease me a. lot because you're like i don't know why.

you have come here right i mean you. would have this uh banter uh going on. like you know please like you you know. uh. uh like who who leaves like you know. that kind of life to come back to india. right. but you know as i said i mean there's a. time for luxury for enjoying and that's. fine but you know i like solving. problems right i like creating impact. right and and. i think that professional satisfaction. is like extremely extremely important i. felt like i'm doing something new right. i'm learning something new because you.

know i've been. a technical person right uh an engineer. i've prepared for engineering i. qualified engineering then i became an. engineer right and worked on that but. there's something new i i started doing. sales i started talking to banks yeah. right uh skill sets which i would never. imagine but i felt really good doing. about it even if that didn't lead. anywhere for a very long. time quick question quick question how. long did you did you work at the us uh. about a couple of years couple of years. like you were there for more than two.

three years not three years now close to. like two years yeah okay like about nine. and do you drive a car here as well no. uh not really like you know mostly you. know mostly you know yeah i take caps. right ola uber and that no food must. hang out. i think we put out background traffic i. guess. all right so what's the next step now so. we found out. step one step two now what's like now. the problem is done i'm ready to commit. i know that's a big enough problem and. in future i imagine that this.

i can see that this is going to become a. mainstream thing so. what's the next what should i do now. like do i do. i. can't think like. i mean depends on the domain right. there's some domains which have very. long gestation period but most of the. domains right which are internet in. first in nature usually have very short. uh gestation period like you can launch. a product in three months six months. might even take a year that's how long. did it take you to launch your product. uh it it took us about you know one year.

uh once. you know like one year in that year you. were just coding and building the. product or were you talking to banks. were you talking like what were you. doing no so i think the. uh coding was not an issue you know. because that's an expertise right like. that's what we know right so we can. code and launch products overnight right. it was mostly talking to banks. understanding the domain you know. getting compliances done and we had a. lot of funny stories uh doing that and. we actually tried and went out and tried.

to selling sell the product even before. we had it you know so in jaipur we. thought okay let's go out and sell. like payment system to schools and. colleges and you know and you'd go to a. college and you're like okay i want to. talk to the principal. and they're like have you come here for. admission. so and that happened like three or four. times you're like okay. like obviously nobody is going to buy. from people who they think are going to. college. attend college right but you know. because because we kind of understood. like the it's going to take some time to. launch the product right i mean talking.

to banks also was very difficult we. would go talk to banks in t-shirts you. know and they're like they'll throw us. out i don't know what the payment. gateway is right uh uh so you know. slowly we started wearing shirts uh then. when we. went to meet like a you know a payments. head in a bank in delhi uh you know. herschel actually bought a coat for the. first time a blazer and prepared a. proper business plan and you know went. there to talk to him right but yeah but. the next step i would say is just to you. know figure out how you can launch the.

product and get to a small number of. customers it could be 10 customers 100. customers thousand customers depending. on whatever the product is right like if. it's a b2b product even getting like 10. customers is it really good if it's a. b2c product let's get thousand customers. right. but i think that's what it is like you. know see how you can. start building the product launch it and. you know. so now now let's say you you missed out. like a huge party or okay who was your. first first 10 customers i want to go to. who was your first customer.

uh okay so how did you get there so for. us you know i think we tried selling it. to schools and colleges okay a lot and. some of them did commit as well but it. was a very painful journey like you know. for three four months uh you know i. traveled with herschel to every single. school and college in jaipur uh and. absolutely zero conversion you know. absolutely zero we are like i we don't. know what we are doing you know and we. had a lot of funny conversations. so the one time you know we tried to uh.

first we are trying to you know sell to. people who are running schools like. principals and you know uh vice. chancellor and then you figure out like. okay these are people who run schools. but they are not the ones who make. decisions you know usually these schools. are run by trustees or something yeah so. then we went to talk to you know a. couple of folks in that uh trustees and. they're like okay like you know uh. you know how much will you pay me to put. this solution. then like you. wait like you know you are supposed to.

pay me to buy this rec we are not going. to pay you right. so that they are like you but i don't. want to pay right i mean you know. this product is going to help. students or parents or like okay then. you know we'll ask the parents to pay. for every digital transaction. right so. like to the the person like okay how. much do you think. the. parent will pay right. like you know you have co you have like. you know people uh travel across cities. you know you have to pay a lot of cash. right to write check straight and go out.

and stand over scooter petrol all those. things we like to look we will charge. like you know uh. half percent of one person for the. payment of whatever is there like you. know five thousand ten dollar piece and. that's that will be uh sufficient so. like if you think the parents are okay. to pay one percent more. then why don't i increase my fees by one. percent instead of giving it to you guys. like i'll make more money because the. simple thing is the parents are going to. pay that money even if it's a lot of. hardship you know uh and we were very we.

were very sad by that conversation we. are like okay it really broke our heart. thankfully not our spirit. so we're like okay this is done you know. we are not going to show these colleges. i don't know yeah but in parallel what. was happening which was interesting you. know uh and which is what our original. thesis also was. uh that you know we were working out of. a co-working space in jaipur the startup. oss you know and they were like a bunch. of entrepreneurs there they're like you. know. uh you know almost like 30 40 uh.

companies working out okay. and the entrepreneurs nearby us right. the co-founders there they are like bus. we need a payment gateway and they would. just come and talk to us and then sign. up hmm you know and that was a very. interesting thing because when we. started we obviously wanted to work for. a sell to businesses and startups but. somewhere in the middle we were like you. know schools will mean a lot more money. yeah okay because every school has like. you know thousand students every college. has like few thousand students so if we. crack one school that is like equivalent. to i don't know how many. small businesses right a lot of.

transactions and and that's it like. we'll be sorted right we might we'll be. profitable. but obviously that was wrong right and. parallel what happened in our co-working. space you know we saw these companies. which are working and we're like you. know why don't you start accepting. payments digitally right why why. do it via bank transfer or where cash. the way you are doing this is more. efficient right it will save cost uh and. and we started signing customers uh. they're just like that you know uh and. and we started hitting and so the. initial few customer like initial couple.

of customers uh you were just you know. our. friends in that place who are like okay. we'll take payments gateway from you and. we would obviously give them like a. white glove service do everything for. them even the integration for them were. like boss just go live start accepting. payments and you know we'll be like. so now these were your friends and. family and people who were around you. who were the first big ticket you got. like the first big startup or the first. big company. if you remember the initial two or three.

if you can remember. so i think we. uh we served a lot of. so you know i don't know how you define. big see you know. there was a time in 2015 uh uh. i tell maybe this will help you out to. like i'll frame it better what i'm. trying to get is how did you get that. big client or somebody. who you had to like a pitch for give. like a proper pitch and what did you. tell them so that they got convinced and. started.

integrating your payment gateway in. their services or their thing what do. you mean is like someone who is a brand. yeah who's a brand like how did you. crack a big brand because this is a. problem with a lot of startup owners and. a lot of small businesses right that now. that i have a startup i have my first. 100 customers i have my 1 000 customers. as well but i don't have that one guy. who can like who's like a big brand. that will give me a big h or the big. boost in the startup system or. honestly i think our our first big brand. happened close to like 2015.

uh you know some end or something right. it was a very long. journey so i don't know if you know. anchoring around a big brand is you know. really that important okay okay like. what i would in fact say is you know. figure out a channel that will work for. you okay figure out a channel that is a. you know a sales order of marketing or. whatever that is repeatable. in nature okay okay what do you mean by. that yeah so uh. when when we started selling rates.

obviously like you know the co-working. space is not is only like few. entrepreneurs and that works right uh. then we're like okay how do we spread. the word out you know now the. interesting thing is and for that. product for that time you know the. incumbents were really focused on. enterprises right because that's where. the big money and the big volume is. right. so what we did you know. uh and and this was not planned but you. know sort of semi-planned semi-intuitive. right there bunch of startup groups in.

the country a bunch of startup whatsapp. groups facebook groups right uh there's. like a bangalore startup group jaipur. startup group delhi startup so every. city if tier 1 tier 2 city has its own. whatsapp and facebook groups. we uh you know so this is how it started. we actually i mean you know we were like. okay this is working in co-working space. where where do other founders hang out. right and we would go to these facebook. groups and we will just post hey we are. looking for a payment gateway i'm sorry. uh we have launched a payment gateway if. anyone is looking for it you know you. can just uh you know ping us and and.

we'll give you like very good service. help you launch. immediately right and we started getting. inquiries uh through that right there. was a lot of there was a lot of. misinformation or there was a lot of. lack of information that was presented. on payments right and and you know uh. that's the way like our initial word. spread out uh you know in the in the. country which was mostly grassroots. level through these startup groups right. and we would give really good service to. service to these founders you know we're.

like okay like watchfield we'll do. everything we want to just help you. succeed right and because because they. really liked it they would go and tell. yeah two three other people right and. and that's word of mouth i think is is. extremely important kind of feel like. unless your product is really good. unless your word of mouth is really. strong you should not scale. large. you know interesting so so. so today you know if you compare it to. today right any i mean that's i mean. that channel is kind of over for us. because if in any facebook group anyone.

post today like i want a payment gateway. you will have a representative from. every payment com gateway company going. and applying their like you know that. there's razor pay this is our. competition like you know everything. like they will reply you paytm all that. right so so that channel no longer works. for them right but that time it was. completely untapped it was completely. new. and it gave us great returns you know uh. for almost like you know a couple of. years uh. at that point right uh so i think so.

yeah what i'm saying is yeah it doesn't. matter to get your first big brand. because that will obviously give you a. boost but it's not repeatable in nature. right find a way some sales or marketing. strategy. that starts working that starts giving. you. results and then you know you can. replicate it and start scaling it in. somewhere it's a great insight because. this is what happened most of us we fuss. about finding that big guy or like big. brand or somebody you can pay us a lot.

but after we get that it took a it takes. a long time to get to that person or. that brand okay so we anyway waste like. a lot of time for that and then b once. we get that we can't repeat it again. it's very difficult to do it yeah so it. makes a lot of sense to instead of. finding that one big guy we should find. out a way which is repeatable again and. again to get the sales yes in nature yes. that's absolutely very good step and. i think you need somebody to tell you. this. like it's it's common sense and but.

still like a lot of people don't focus. on this particular stuff yeah i i i tell. founders every time that you know just. focus on you know your week on week. growth right like week on week you. should start growing 10 percent 20. whatever right like as long as you know. because. as companies mature scale you know they. start looking quarters ears which is. fine right but when you are a young. startup you need to survive week to week. yeah that's it right you don't need no. need to worry about like two years later. what is going to happen right.

you're simply thinking like okay. ugly weaker numbers. customers. am i well prepared to serve them right. uh if if that is if i know like i'm. getting five customers next week can i. get 10 customers next to next week right. that's all you have to think and solve. for and keep you know working towards in. the initial months uh and as long as you. you know you can find that repeatable. playbook i think it will serve you. really well. you kind of answered the next question. already i was going to ask you this. question only like now how do we go.

about growth like now that i figured out. first sales and now i have to grow it. and what should be my mindset when it. comes to growth you're like okay just. focus on the week yeah every week you. come up with week to week to week do you. guys still think of week or now you have. like your plans or quarter plans we. obviously now have like you know three. four year plans yearly plans but any new. initiative that we do right i mean tell. the people there that the you know. whoever is running it to do to track it. week to week to track it day to day like.

you know what's kind of going on and do. anything that you can right to to get on. top of that week because you know a lot. of startups especially high growth. startups right work on momentum yeah you. know so you want to continue creating. momentum in a way right and i'll tell. you like you know. uh when we used to call founders right. sometimes uh we were like okay like you. know this guy hasn't picked up so you. know we started calling from a number in. u.s you know just so that people will.

pick up because they're like okay if. people pick up the call then we can. convince them about our product yes. right uh you know we would uh find ways. to you know. uh get this thing that okay look you. know if fine you're not accepting. payments right now but whenever you do. right how can we create that association. that whenever you do first it's you know. internet is huge whenever you do you. come to razer pay right. so so just to hit that like okay i want. to get you know five customers this week. i want to get 10 customers this week.

we'll do everything we can to just you. know. make it happen and come out on top of it. and slowly that you know that just. becomes a habit. that does now what do you think is the. i like the top three or four things. which any startup founder should keep in. mind or whether what are the most. important things which the startup. founder should keep in mind once they. have. their startup they have their product. and they started selling now they're. growing so what's the what are the most. two three important things which they. should figure out.

are the top three things according to. you which every startup founder should. look at maybe. week on week numbers what what is it. okay so you know see the simple thing is. like when when you start uh growing i. think you have to be on top of your week. on week numbers like okay there's. absolutely nothing you know uh more. important that that just from a growth. perspective. if you're talking about from the growth. perspective only so that's the first. thing yeah what are the other two yeah. second would be you know just thinking.

like you know if if you are able to grow. to uh you know that you can hire people. think about i mean hire really good. people who can replace you right as. simple as that like you know you are. doing a job that is working. get someone else to. do it so that you can go out and do. something else right and that guy can. now make it better you don't need to uh. sort of focus on it right okay and see. there'll be tons of things right so for. us. uh you know for us like we have to do. sales right and and you know we got our. friend who is really good you know uh.

talking to people not at selling just. talking to people we are like you know. he knows how to talk to people he will. he'll figure out the rest of the stuff. that is right uh we we got another. friend who is really good at analytics. okay so you're like okay you know he'll. figure out the operations he'll figure. out everything like you know because. operations works in that sense right. yeah you know he'll manage that part. right uh again uh coding is something. like you know product building is. something is really important so we're. like okay like you know we i mean we. can't continue building this ourselves.

we you know we should get people who are. expert expert in that and you know they. can manage that another thing is like. when when hiring people i think it's. really important to hire the initials. that like you know really good people. whom you think you can work with. long term because if you if you are able. to build the core of the team right the. initial five to ten members were really. well uh sorted right i mean and are. aligned with you are culturally strong. and you know. what i like to call like a really good. generalist who can do anything to.

everything uh that helps you the company. set up long term uh for success right so. finding your core team is the yeah and. what's the third part i think the. third part aspect you know uh that i. would say keep in mind is like you know. just a semblance of it in some sense is. the aspect around culture you know uh. for. a lot of organizations like you know i. think culture is something that serves. you really well long term you don't want. to do wrong by your customers by your. you know people.

anyone who who you are associated with. right you obviously want to grow but you. you should not do any things you know. which will. create wrong precedent in the. organization or sort of wrong steps in. the organization right uh so culture is. something that you know over a period of. years becomes a really good strategic. advantage right so as you continue. scaling you just you want to make sure. that you know uh the company is set up. in the right way right uh that's it like. these three things. that's what you know i would call it.

weak on week hiring the right people the. initial core team and then the setting. the right culture so that that core team. themselves can expand on the cultural. principles which you have set in the. company right i'll tell you it's a week. on the week's music. when i was in my factory okay and they. initially when i was working i figured. out my initial set of customers. and we were selling and first time i got. like a huge order. and that in that huge order. it was the first time when there was a.

truckload of goods which were going out. the entire truck was getting loaded up. and then every week instead of week or. week we used to talk about truck by. truck. how many trucks are gonna be there at my. factory premises today like every day. this was our. conversation this is this is what i was. talking to my team my friends and. everybody okay. now i want more trucks. because earlier we used to send our. detergents and dishwasher gels and. everything it through taxis small small. taxis wow because we were just.

distributed into small places right and. now they're a truck going like a. magnitude growth from here from a taxi. from a truck. i saw that for the first time and this. is what instead of week one week the. entire growth i was not caring about. numbers i was not caring about what's. going on i was like how many trucks the. number of trucks i want to know i don't. know about the revenue. but see that's really interesting so you. know uh i think uh thing to think. through is right what is a north star. for you right like what is the north.

star that you're chasing in terms of. business metrics right uh for us it was. number of customers or for us it was. like you know the transactions uh that. these businesses were doing right uh if. you can set a good north star it it. anchors the whole company around it. right yeah uh if you if you're very. fuzzy in articulating like you know what. is what are you trying to do and what is. not start you have then your team. members will also not know like you know. what they're working towards and they'll. run in different directions right. so so that is why like you know when. you're when you're in the initial stages. like you know what matters to you.

clearly calling it out look these are. not start right this is what we should. be doing that's absolutely like you know. everyone will just double down on it. like absolutely and i think the culture. also. once you set this is our north star and. you start telling people that. automatically becomes like a culture or. a blood of your company and that it. helps out so with the truck story only. after we started growing and we were. like every 10th truck which is going to. be there everybody in the office starts. clapping oh wow now it become it became.

like a race. okay like once the eighth truck or the. nine truck was there everybody was just. waiting corn over because everybody. wanted to become the first one to start. celebrating and that. pumped people so much. because that guy who saw the saw the. tenth truck for the first time or the. number of like who got the data okay and. he started clapping. he would work really hard to get to. another 10th because he always wants to. be the first one to tell about or this. is my 10th truck or this is my thing so. it helped us build a culture of growth. where everybody was celebrating the 10.

trucks as well perfect so. this makes sense i mean for us you know. uh one thing that really worked well. again was you know we wanted everyone to. handle customer support okay so everyone. so you know the general mindset is like. you know customers support support is. something that others are supposed to do. right you hire folks for doing customer. support right we would like to know we. want everyone to do customer support so. that they see what are the pain points. of a customer right why first of all. like you know. they shouldn't need to come to us for. support right yeah just to go through.

whatever should work but it never is. right it absolutely no way there's. something out there that keeps breaking. something or the other issue and we we. are in the business of money right uh so. so just anchoring all that everyone. people go out and do customer support. for two three hours and come back they. are like. boss like we have so much work to do. [Laughter]. there's so much we can do there's so. much problems out there and you know we. have so much uh and that you know used. to create a very good listing that yeah.

yeah like we are really solving uh you. know a good uh problem. but that's a really good thing right i. think every startup should do that. because the moment they come to you oh i. have a lot of work to do that's why i. can't handle customer support like yeah. [Laughter]. you should make a better product so that. customer support doesn't take a lot of. your time absolutely yeah. you're making them get into a loop. it's a good thing. now okay you also went to yc right that. was your first uh big move which i would.

say. what do you think was the reason why yc. took you in. or why why she gave you a chance what. was that reason uh i think in in. hindsight it's pretty obvious right i. mean. uh india is going to be a huge market. and payments is something that obviously. like you know it's. is is a significant important. infrastructure for any country. and you know in india payments is not a. solved problem so i think the. combination of these parts and obviously. like hopefully they saw something good.

they wanted to see in you that's what i. want to know that's what i want to see. what did they see you and her. yeah don't know. [Laughter]. what do you think if you self-analyze or. if you're if you think about something. okay this is my strength or maybe they. saw this. see i you know. the way i see interviews right uh it's. it's a very short 10 minute interview. that's it that's a 10 minutes you know a. lot of people you know have have. criticized or even asked like how can.

you judge anything in 10 minutes to be. honest right. but i think it's it's more than. sufficient you know. i think the way it sort of works is that. you know they they obviously know a lot. more about different domains yep and. different companies that have come and. gone right and and they asked you a. bunch of questions right uh i think what. they look for is that you know whether. whether you are able to answer certain. questions or you have the confidence to. give you know. some thought through answers to the. questions right because if they can ask. a question which does not make sense you.

know from their perspective like you. know you have not thought of them and. they have thought more about it in 10. minutes then obviously it becomes a lot. sort of a. red flag i think the other thing i kind. of think is that you know they look for. like you know whether you're able to. progress on your own right and uh get. from point a to point b because. entrepreneurship is difficult right they. are not there to support you to you know. uh. make do things right i mean you know. it's not a school right they're not. supposed to take any tests on anything. right so i think they're just looking. for like whether you're motivated to uh.

continue doing this on your own as much. as uh possible i think in we had them i. mean uh we had gone to almost like after. eight nine months to yc and you know we. had caught us. you know support from the banks and all. so obviously like you know there was. enough proof points to say like you know. we have crossed some milestones. so that was this is where you feel like. you were well prepared that's what got. you in. uh i don't know if it was well prepared. like i think or you were well prepared. for the 10 minute question and answer.

round yeah i i i think that's that's. kind of like you know uh i think. we are well prepared for the what we. were doing the domain right and that. just reflected in the. uh in in that 10 minute conversation and. has anything let's say the vision point. or the problem you're trying to solve or. something which you pitched back then. has it changed right now now is much. evolved version of your vision or is it. the same. it's pretty much the same it's just you. know expanded that's how i would call it. uh when we started we were like you know.

we want to solve payments uh that's. there right and and we have made a lot. of progress on payments in last five six. years but now you see that you know for. a business for a business right uh their. financial journey is broken in a lot of. places not just payments right the way. you manage payroll the way you do your. taxes the way you know uh you make. payments to your vendor the way you know. uh you get a loan uh for example or you. know you raise funding right all of. these have like a lot of things that are.

broken you ask any entrepreneur you know. uh when you go for a payroll like you. know uh or when you file your tax taxes. what do you like about it yeah. and nobody will tell you like they like. that right because it's a huge pain. uh i had a story that uh my co-founder. hershel was on a vacation in goa uh and. and at the middle of the night the. finance team called him. sir you have to you have to approve. payroll you have to make uh put in some. otp and that you can only do on his own. laptop and in the middle of the vacation.

in goa whatever party he was in like he. had to come out take out his laptop and. you know key that in the otp and make it. happen and find some patchy internet. that is uh working right so so the same. problem that is there in payments right. we. want to simplify the financial life of. an entrepreneur of a business and take. away all the problems there right and. hopefully in that i'm obviously in that. journey. help them digitize help them leverage. technology more simplify their you know. lives as much as possible right okay so.

before i go to the last two questions. okay i want to ask you do you guys still. do the otp thing do you still get otps. this is a pain point i'm facing so i. want to know like even after having a. unicorn do you face this. so yes or no. yes. there are a lot of areas where we still. do okay you know but there are a lot of. places we have built really good. products that uh you know. solve the pain point right okay so for. example payroll for example it. instead of you know uh so in payroll.

itself you you know you do the payroll. for your employees you file your. compliances all of that right so it you. usually that process might take like. nine to ten otps and you know a lot of. your time now that become like a single. click process for us okay and recently. we launched something cool you would. like it like you know you can even. approve the transaction on your apple. watch uh okay right so. without an otp we i can just get a. notification like yeah exactly yeah so. you know you just get like okay like you. know approve payroll you just click on.

it and you just tap on it and touch it. and that's it it's done so wait right oh. that's that's good i think we need it. i need it because there's my accountant. calling me upstairs. and it's a problem okay so. the last second question. i want to ask you what are the. what do you feel are the top three. things which are important for an. entrepreneur or a startup founder who. which is outside the organization.

let's say. some people say networking is important. some people say having a work-life. balance is important or. whatever reading is important what do. you think. i think the most important thing. is customers you know talking to. customers knowing the customers right. that's. that's some that's what will. anchor the organization in a very strong. way you know uh i think a lot of startup. founders. forget talking to customers at certain. point you know in the early days itself. right because they get so busy in. building the product that they forget.

like you know they're building it for. someone you know and so many people have. commit this mistake even large. organizations uh you know like i. remember this anecdote uh by google plus. which was there something 10 years ago. you know the. the person who designed google plus they. called out that you know we were so busy. in designing a beautiful product and you. forget talking to customers even a large. organization. makes that mistake and especially. engineers are really uh you know uh. because they love building the product. so much that they forget that you know.

they're building it for a customer and. and. they may want something radically. different than the way you're building. right any customers is i think the. biggest. important thing uh in that sense right. uh others other thing if i have to say i. would say is you know your own mental. health in a way you should manage it. well you know. i think you are the best person to. figure that out you know uh. it might come through you know playing. sports it might come through talking to.

other people that it might come through. to stop being around with your family uh. for some people it might just be like. you know i just want to work more right. like uh you know there's like elon musk. which just believes in working 24 7. right so which is obviously not healthy. for for everyone yeah right but you have. to find your own thing that you know. that keeps you. centered that keeps you sane that keeps. you peaceful because. entrepreneurship is a very long journey. it's a it's a huge marathon it's not a. 100 meter sprint it's like a you know a.

combination of marathons over the years. let's stay right so you have to find. ways what do you do what do you do to. cope up with this do you play any sport. do you. i i have my own guitar what what do you. do i read a lot you know i used to play. piano uh earlier like few years back but. you know i mostly stop i play a lot of. table tennis like i have a table tennis. table uh at my home i have a table. tennis table at my home next time in. mumbai. where we're doing a game now. yeah yeah done right so you know people.

keep coming to our house for you know. for whatever parties or you know just. visits and i would play table tennis. with all of them and you know. that just makes me happy right so you. know and i love talking to people i love. talking to a lot of entrepreneurs so. every saturday i would go and meet you. know uh entrepreneurs and and just uh. talk to them and. at least till we become a unicorn you. know i used to it used to be very. positive conversation after becoming a. unicorn it's become a little bit. difficult because you know people are. like okay i you know said you know.

i want your advice and stuff like that. it's not no longer like a good two-way. conversation. but uh yeah i i love talking to people. that way right so even today i talk to. other founders and other execs and you. know uh people in the ecosystem and it. just makes me really uh happy and. motivated perfect and the third thing. what was the third thing now. [Laughter]. you're really bad off like. yeah. questions i love i love rule of three. okay like i love three things.

external to the company uh you know i. know like you know i think uh. yeah i think uh. i i would say like you know in in some. sort of in networking but you know i'm. not a big fan of the term networking in. itself you know because that that's uh. uh. you know it's because it sounds a bit. meaningless right yep uh i think what. what could be good is that you know. you talk to people and you try and learn.

from their experiences okay because you. know uh see we are human beings we don't. know everything and we'll obviously make. a lot of mistakes right. if you can find people in your journey. who can be who can mentor you or who can. share their experiences with you right. uh it will it'll help prevent a lot of. mistakes. that you can commit right yeah and and. there would be days where i'm like. yeah. someone else.

like what i have to do like if how. should i get a brand or should i you. know uh raise funding right and you know. how how should i get you know my first. employee right so i think you know i. think yc really helped play that role. for us but even outside of that like i. think we met a lot of people kunal shah. you know has been like a really good. mentor uh for us and he would always. come up with crazy ideas on you know how. you can do things right. so i think. i what i like to call like you know. purpose or internet working right which.

is you know you are able to learn. something new every time you meet. someone right uh and and some of them. become your friends some of them can. become your mentor some of them can. become your investors some of them can. just be your cheerleaders for you right. uh it just helps you improve. yourself by leaps and bounds in various. ways like you know unintentionally. because you know in when i was in bay. area right i used i would have met like. almost close to like you know uh 150. people in that ecosystem and similarly. when i came to bangalore every weekend i.

would meet people you know my my. storytelling improved my you know my. ability to talk to people improve and. i'm a huge introvert you know i. i like my space at the end of the day. like every time every day i go back home. i want to spend a couple of hours by. myself right so it's even for me it was. not very easy you know to come out of. that shell and to speak to people but. you know i figured out my own formula. of doing that right and now whenever i. face a problem i have a i have a great. network right of people whom i can reach.

out to and i know exactly whom to reach. out to who can be helpful to me uh for a. specific thing yeah here's a good one. okay i'd say this to my friends or. people who ask me this that how do we go. about networking he's like try to find. out either like-minded people or people. you admire with. but find out with this objective that. you either have to have fun with them or. learn something from them. if you can't figure out both any of them. or both of them. stop seeking out or looking out for. people yeah because it makes no sense.

because if you can't have let's say if. you can't figure out a. way to let's have have fun with you. while playing a tt or something i should. not even talk to you or if there's not a. way where i can do a podcast with you. and learn something from your journey. then what's the point of me reaching out. to you right so this is what people need. to figure out when they're trying to. network with a lot of people yeah now. the last question and then i'm going to. summarize everything it's a quick one. okay and the quick one is if you were. not building. indeed this startup the razer pay or in.

the fintech industry what do you think. where is the next billion dollar. opportunity for entrepreneurs in the. country. yeah i'll tell you one thing right uh. you know there is no one place where you. can build a billion dollars what would. you be building or what do you think is. your what do you think you would be. doing if not fintech so uh i. honestly you know i have thought of this. before because at some point i was like. okay like you know phrase if it didn't. work out like you know so i i can think. of two things one is that you know i.

might be working on the idea that i was. initially working on which is you know. how can i how can i create a future. where you know everyone believes that. they should donate a part of their. giving income right. and give it to causes that they are. passionate about that they think a lot. about and make it very easy you know you. just go there you you know you sign up. for a cause and you can contribute your. time your money anything. you know like sib for causes absolutely. perfect yeah yeah and and the thing is. like you know.

what i feel right and you know i've. obviously donated before it makes you. feel really good really good yeah so. it's not something that's that's without. an aim as well right so i might be doing. that honestly. if not that then i think second could be. like you know i. uh. i would might be doing something in the. decentralized finance space in the. crypto space uh that is there i really. i like i love that technology you know. i've i mean uh there's a lot of noise.

around it right everyone is like okay. crypto investments this that. uh but the but the underlying technology. there right it's it's revolutionary in. the sense that you know it's i feel like. it is at a place where where internet. was you know in the early 90s a key. thing being that it's still early 90s. from a crypto perspective so there's. still like a. two decade three decade journey ahead uh. in that ecosystem and you know it's just. starting to take off so only thing is.

there's a lot of noise uh. right now in it but you can do a lot of. good things nothing is there there right. sweet. thanks a lot for doing this. let me try to summarize it for people. okay number one if you want to become. friends with shashank and want his. advice stop asking for advices go learn. [Laughter]. that's the first thing but apart from.

that we figured out first is you find. out a problem to solve then you find out. whether you're ready to commit and ready. to. be there till the time it becomes the. real reality or no that you have to. figure out then you find out your first. set of customers to launch and find our. initial set of problems then you focus. on week on week growth hiring the right. people so that you can get off their. place and then you can start taking care. of your mental health as well because. it's a long journey. and if you want everything else which we.

just talked about in detail you need to. listen to the podcast again. yeah thanks a lot for being here man. thanks a lot it was fun. really nice talking to you you know. definitely enjoyed our conversation and. yeah i hope people take something good. out of it.