DIRTY Secrets of Music Business Explained by Sunburn CEO - FO 104 | Raj Shamani

I remember Justin Bieber when he came to. India yeah. people ask us for masseuse you know I. want nice massage backstage. on avici's Rider he wanted a Lego sets. he obviously asked for cakes. for a Playstation and a football who's. the most expensive artist you booked.

ever Swedish House Mafia and The. Chainsmokers and how much would they. cost would you remember any incident. where you fell okay this is crazy. um. so the police actually videos.

foreign. foreign.

so enjoy today's show And subscribe. those channels as well. I told you about Dimitri vacation like. Mike in Goa so we are put them up at the. Marriott panjim for some odd [ __ ]. reason and they were getting a massage. over there so then massage went on and. on and they left a little late and we.

put them on a festival was in uh this. thing now um um. so we put them on a boat from panjim. it was dark okay and then this [ __ ]. uh boat guy started saying array I. cannot come I cannot come into the beach.

after the dark it's not allowed and. literally I get a call from the manager. saying bro we are stuck in the middle of. the sea and this [ __ ] boat guy is. saying he cannot come. headliner. of the person go on stage in like 30. minutes or whatever 30 40 minutes. finally we had to send them back to. candelum because it's a proper Jetty. there because there's no proper this.

thing Yeti and then again we have to. send four people on bikes to candelum. and the two of them and their technical. guys with their technical equipment are. coming on bikes wearing helmets through. the traffic. obviously still reached late but I think. they played about an hour instead of 75. minutes or whatever. I was like in a guy called me bro we're. on a boat in the middle of the sea and. this boat guy is saying we cannot come.

in what if their phone was not working. and something whatever it would have. been crude yeah it's good because even. your law is too strict of 10 pm like you. cannot extend no matter what so. they always ask us is the curfew hard. I'm like yes the coffee is hard. there is nothing soft about them. you guys for the first ones to build the. space in India still building yeah in my. lab I don't remember anyone else at. least when I I used to party in like.

2012-13 there was only one name it's. just sunburn College events. leading road to sunburn yeah right and. then everybody would go and go on my. party that was like a big Festival which. used to happen right so you. predominantly built it right you know. it's funny. that when I was in college. I was getting into selling the tickets.

okay of sunburn festivals in my in my. city so there are a bunch of my friends. which college I was in prestige in. Indore correct I was not normal. they used to be a club called I know. jignesh oh I know you know right. and keep view of my friends they used to. organize parties right over party. organizers. I was like 16 17 right.

and purpose you should have like you. would have like some kind of commission. you know I tried that for a while yeah. and I did it and I thought that I'll. build one of the biggest events company. in my city because yeah when you first. time when you sell 50 passes in a. college you feel like damn.

[Laughter]. this I used to do and that's all I. remember but I did only for like couple. of parties and then I didn't but my. friends still do did it and then. obviously and then these guys are doing. good that's how entrepreneurs and. businesses are built from Grassroots. level it's the best route yeah that's. the that's the best food I wish I would. have continued that probably. again. you're doing something fantastic right. now so it definitely landed up in the.

right place yeah so I I I'm coming to. that and then. I had a. like I still have it I don't hide it. that I want to do Festival one day. because I think that seed was sown at. that time College times. right and I went to EDC. um I went to Untold I went to like. multiple festivals around the world.

business-led conferences. because I don't drink I don't smoke okay. so I don't lose myself so in my in my if. I'm in like middle of EDC yeah you're. still focused like partying to my like. brains out.

but I'll come back home and I'll write. down okay. and then I'll just write it down things. and one day maybe I'll have a festival. but after doing the research I found out. music festivals around the world. like because. I am thinking of match in my head huh. and I'm saying Bots are Music Festival.

around the world they go bankrupt. correct or usually live Nations. this is more profitable. so. cute. let's just talk about math or someone. like how many people and we get about 30. 40 000 per day. per day and per day ticket is for. the average ticket is about two two and. a half thousand per day so two and a.

half thousand let's say two thousand per. per day right forty thousand people. that's a [ __ ] ton of money there are. complimentaries also there are a lot of. uh let's just talk about the whole. business because I want to understand 40. 000 per day two thousand per day. sponsors. so why like why is it so difficult to. make money in the music business it's. very difficult because.

you're there are so many costs. that come into the picture of putting up. a festival okay. like let's just you have your artist. course okay that's the biggest cost. right which is your cost for your talent. you know you are booking uh big. International artists. we get up about 60 to 80 artists.

at least 20 25 to maybe 30 35 artists. would be International okay 30 35 would. be International. and split kit message. eight to ten eight to ten and what do. you think like how much would you spend. approximately at this artist a lot. just give me a proxy. see any of these Headliners could be.

anywhere between 100 000 to 400 500 000. okay you know and then. which is your flights hotels. each of these guys may come with six. people eight people ten people. they'll have their own production guy. lighting guy security guy you know. marketing guy photo video or every. artist every big artist at least become. its own crew. um then now with the last few years.

you're exposed to the Forex rate also. business. just imagine that if your artist cost is. 40 to 50 of your overall cost okay okay. and then the exchange rate changes by 15. percent. then what does that do to your margin. right. zero controllers. so that has actually happened basically. and technically in sometimes we are. operating on very thin margins the.

technically margin is gone just because. of Forex rate. who's the most expensive artist you've. booked ever. these two you can tell don't tell me.

like eight ten the most expensive. artists we've ever booked. um. Swedish House Mafia and The Chainsmokers. and how much would they cost upwards of. half a million. crazy and then that is half a million. four crore is their fees fees and then. okay. flights they would fly maybe in a.

charter or I don't know first class so. that depends some of these days. international flight included so from. the moment they land in India. okay so obviously hotels internal just. if you're doing a tour because apart. from the festival we do these tours as. well to internal flights. um ground transport hotels. usually landed so this is how the cause. Snoop Dogg you got it as well right no. we got Wiz Khalifa Wiz Khalifa yeah okay.

and Wiz Khalifa was cheaper than chain. smokers as well wow crazy I thought Wiz. Khalifa and like these guys were like. way bigger because they're from the. Rapport no I think see. um. like EDM is commercial and it's it's. definitely a top genre globally as well. as in India and in India of course we. would like to take some credit for. growing it 100 credits to this stage but. uh you know uh I mean if you like these.

guys are as much household names as Wiz. Khalifa or Snoop Dogg true you know I. mean I I literally see people on the. road wearing Martin Garrix Island Walker. t-shirts India. so that that just gives you an idea of. how deep. you know EDM has. penetrate has penetrated and I think the. large like a big credit goes to you guys. also because you made it cool like I. remember we used to not even know what. EDM is until we went to a sun month.

party and then we started oh Oscar then. we started getting deep now everybody. was like I listen to Dubstep. I'm a technical person now it's getting. to that stage but I think yeah generally. it's like you know Indian audience is. very young we have one of the youngest. populations in the world and the kind of. energy and release that EDM music. effortlessly gives you is what the Youth. of India craves and their entire. experience when you are at a festival. um you know is something that is totally.

different from being at sale in India or. a live music festival so I think that. for the Youth it has really worked well. not fair it has and it it used to have. like that sex appeal that I want to go. to this you know the Glamorous that one. day I'll feel the next I mean at least. from you after movies it'd feel like oh. [Laughter]. okay let's come to this and we'll come. to the experience in The Branding part. of it okay so 40 50 cost is this and. then these guys you have to pay to an.

artist artist. simply the technical inventory which you. will be providing them. lights sound video video means LED sfx. especially these big guys need a lot of. sfx or CO2 Jets blasters.

Etc. um you know all of those things so all. that falls under the tech inventory and. uh sorry Tech Rider Hospitality Rider is. and you know like I remember uh on. avici's Rider.

uh because we did up both of avici. stores in India he wanted a Lego set. Lego set Lego set why. like I said. yeah. he obviously asked for cakes. for a Playstation and a football.

you've ever heard or you've actually. provided I just told you some of them to. give me somebody like a person because I. remember Justin Bieber when he came to. India yeah. all over the news. where people ask us for masseuse. I mean I want nice massage backstage.

you will not get any hot girl coming and. giving you a massage. no but honestly and like we also try and. you know because. right like as you said there are many. rich people Festival. there are people who will be like that. so you can only differentiate yourself. in these things one is that you are. putting on a professional world-class.

production. so like from day one even like even if. you're losing money. we will not cut Corners some compromise. because even for the audience as well as. for the artists we should be known that. you know snakes. you know it should not be like that. um and then your hospitality we are like. I mean our thing is that boss what's the.

point of cutting over there because you. are paying the guy hundreds of thousands. of dollars. okay over here if you start cutting so. we are like we do more we give them some. nice indian gifts or some really nice. you know we are known for Hospitality. right India Indians so we will really. try and give them the best sauce the. best Hospitality that they should go. back saying I had a great experience in. India not that oh it's uh developing. country I'm waiting to go back to Europe. or us they should go back saying that I.

want to come back to India and that you. can only differentiate when you actually. give them a great experience more than. anything else yeah interesting okay so. that's the artist course then what's the. next artist okay that's 40 the next. biggest thing is the production okay. which is everything on ground that is. like 20 30. easily which is that's 30 yeah which is. uh obviously the stage the production. the technical inventory constructing.

everything. um because in India as well. foreign. s your toilets your bars everything is. already there over here you get an open. ground you build everything from scratch. every time you do an event. you get portable toilets you build the.

bars you build the entry eyes you have. to barricade the entire venue for. security so that production covers from. zero to going to a festival it requires. like technically it's nice. you have to give them everything. everything. wow yeah so that production covers all. of that how many days the the ideation. from from ideation to actual execution.

goes like ideation is the full year. a moment that you finish working on. sunburn you start working on the next. one. the on ground production takes at least. a month okay. 11 months you're thinking exactly. 12th month. from 1 to 13th she's gonna be able to. start booking the artists these guys. make their schedules way in advance you. have to start booking in the. international guys you have to start. thinking that is this your what will my.

Festival look like what will the. experience be like. um you know so last year our theme was. future is now we wanted to go very. um you know futuristic Tech heavy uh. because there's a lot of changes in Tech. right web 3.0 and all of these. revolutions happening uh this year our. uh when this when the 2023 our our theme. is going to be. um Enchanted Forest silicon electric. Neon Jungle kind of a Vibe so then you.

start thinking of that obviously the. main stage design will be around that. consistent with the theme but apart from. that you should have entire Festival. experience should also give that. kind of feel and vibe to the people. so you start thinking of those things. and you have these stage so I'm assuming. when you make when you look at sunburn. stages right they're like so Grand so. big right. so you get people from around the world. to design that yeah or like to build. that is either because this is not like.

an everyday thing. like when you go to us or when you go to. UK right. US map purchase festivals. [Music]. so they would usually get like one. person would be working on other or. cheese either. because I think as a scale which you. guys are doing no one else is doing.

you would get things from. like from abroad or would you get people. from abroad like how would no Mechanics. Work honestly everything is sourced and. provided locally we have not got things. from abroad never no because there's. there's a lot of stuff available and. whether it's technical inventory or. otherwise. um yes we may have got designs from. abroad even like last year we worked. with the company dark room which is a. designing agency based in Australia New. Zealand and they do fantastic stuff you.

know even the iconic sunburn. um cubic Zoid stage which was I think in. 2013 if I'm you know that was also. designed by these guys so we worked with. some International design agencies where. we've always sourced things locally. well that's interesting I mean from all. over. but yeah. like to pull out a festival which is for. 40 000 people a day how big is the team. see my permanent team is about 25 people.

okay but then we get a lot of uh. Freelancers on board during the festival. time so maybe another. 20 to 30 people would be purely working. on a festival okay and then the total. crew which is working on ground which. includes the themes of the vendors and. the partners easily goes to 1500 to 2000. people. okay. is it 2 000 B so there's 25 people. ideating for the whole year 35 people.

coming for a short period for. Freelancers Pacific three four months at. least yeah for three four months for a. quarter yeah for specific reason for. their expertise yeah and then there are. 1500 to 2000 people who are actually. making this happen correct so this also. is a big cost huge cost yes. that I mean is that for example if we. are taking the uh lights and the LED. from XYZ company we will put a team of. 80 people so that that's what I mean.

like all these people are not on my. products yeah nice okay so there's a 70. cost covered what are the other 30 goes. to other costs are um so when you and. Licensing will be one cost third okay uh. because obviously you need a bunch of. licenses and permissions to be able to. do these events in India how many. licenses do you need like what kind of. license give me five six top licenses. which you need uh.

police law in order police traffic so. there are two different licenses from. the police uh excise of course because. all of our events we are serving uh. alcohol. uh and then apart from that there are a. lot of other licenses like fire and. safety bwd in Goa we have uh um crg. license because the venue is very close. to the uh Coast okay CRT is a coastal. regulatory okay. so when you're close to the course you.

can only you know you cannot build. permanent structures and etc etc so. there are those kind of restrictions as. well and then. um for sunburn Goa we have an overall. permission that we also get from the. tourism Department to conduct the. overall that's like a overarching uh you. know sort of. for three four days five days are you. yeah so they kind of then check with all. the Departments that everything is you. know taken care of and all of that like. is there a lot of politics involved in.

Live Events I mean more than politics I. would say that you know I told you that. the is the process of Licensing right. which is bureaucracy is involved. medocracies and model because that. licensing process is quite uh painful. and long. and quite often the licenses depend on. each other right you can't apply for. exercise. you know then you need multiple. signatures at each level.

so obviously if there was a way for this. to be more standardized I think it would. help the entire industry. you know and then it goes back to the. earlier point about that venues right. you have to build from scratch so what. happens in Western markets is that the. venue has licenses. because of that like this venue is. licensed for having answers like 10 000. people so fire has already checked it. police has already checked it like. people have already checked it so when. you go into an event you may still need. to apply just for one or two but you.

don't have to do the whole foreign. these licenses will obviously come kind. of last minute I'm not saying. like in you know it will come in the. last few days because they'll want to do. their own checks and then you know. anything can happen uh you know in India. of course we've had cancellations also. in the past sometimes things are out of. your hand.

it's possible but of course then for.

that there'll be some reason. right there'll be some like specific. reason I mean the most. famous cancellation in the Indian. industry was Swedish Mafia. because. passed away on the same day. so yeah there are as you say Force Major. reasons. um you know for which uh sometime anyone.

cannot happen and then so disheartened. yeah I came for so sudisha's Mafia would. have been the first Festival of my life. okay first concert right and I came to. Bombay from Indore. yeah on the day it was 17th or 18. November. I came to Bombay and then it was like. yeah.

that was first then foreign.

foreign. [Music]. [Laughter].

[Music]. thank you. how big is your fake ticket Market in.

India like do you have to fight that no. there was a there was a time when it was. quite bad but not now not so much and. obviously I mean I think that even. bookmyshow has taken a lot of steps. uh to ensure that the protection systems. on the tickets uh world class whether it. is the you know barcodes or you know. giving e-tickets or whatever it is even. there is bands now that we get. impossible for anybody to duplicate.

one thing which I feel is like a big. problem with ticketing also and I wanted. to ask you is there a solution for that. which I couldn't see could be around the. world same problem. you have to take your ticket huh and. stand in a goddamn line for hours to get. the band right like can we not get it. delivered at our homes like but we do.

that now we do home delivery for go for. sunburn uh for Sanborn Goa. um unless you book your ticket last. minute in which case. you know many of the events now that's. exactly right we are doing home delivery. you go straight to the first time and. and now you get a chip on your ticket. right FNB balance.

and that also yeah we are already. offering people to do it pre so up once. you get the. um wristband you can do it before you. even come for the festival also we can. load it you can load it up yeah nice. you're comfortably so yeah all these are. pain points so hey look okay you know so. we are I mean as an industry we're. trying to address them. but so this is pain point for a customer. for. for a member who wants to attend the. whole event like go through an. experience what's biggest pain point for.

you in the festival what do you feel is. the biggest pain Point here yay. how do like every time is obviously we. solve it we make it sure but yeah see. the thing is that. um I think. for us over the last few years that. managing that scale has become more and. more of a challenge I wouldn't say a. problem but because the events have. become ten thousand fifteen thousand. people 18 even 20 000 people right and. guamito you know we get much more than.

that so then essentially with so many. people congregating in one venue how do. you still ensure that people having a. smooth and a good experience. you know your technicals will be. fantastic all of that would be a given. problem. but yeah huh but like you know with then. whether it is traffic or it is parking. how do you still. try and take care that everybody has a. good experience that is a big challenge.

well I've learned that once you cross. seven eight ten thousand. people in one venue then that becomes a. challenge. and then again there are factors out of. your hand like in Mumbai now half the. roads are dug up yeah right yeah. generally only traffic is so bad I added. one and a half hours to come here today. is standing outside the festival and. you're texting. just talking to that exactly man so I. think. you know.

um those are challenges and uh you know. you have to finish at 10 pm That's the. Law you know generally our weather is. not conducive for people to come early. yeah. right so that helps them manage the. crowd yeah I went because over here we. get that 80 of the people are coming. between six and eight pm yeah so we have. and then they all leaving at 10 all. leaving of course at 10. so I went to I.

went to this Festival Untold yeah. Romania Romania right we entered at 2 pm. right and we got out of the festival at. 5am. exactly.

like I mean we we try to encourage. people to come early maybe do happy. hours but of course like unless you're. living in December or Jan or Feb like. the weather wise also you know it gets. hot and sticky and humid and everything. um and then and then yeah just inside it.

is a process of which again I think that. we haven't done a perfect job of that. but ensuring whether it is toilets bars. food stores people should feel. comfortable there should be enough of. everything. um there should be enough space for. people to move around so all of those. things okay let's talk about challenges. which and you know because you said. these are not problems these are. challenges that I'm sure every time with. every year you're trying to make it. better and solving in a better chance. right there are multiple challenges.

which is across the world in a festival. business or an events business right one. of them is security and safety because. when there's. when there are like 10 000 people. correct from different ethnicities. different backgrounds different cities. yeah different like you know social. economic status yeah. and they. there's alcohol there's music correct. fights tend to happen yeah and it's one.

of the biggest things. [Music]. this is like a major problem. assuming. how do you manage fights I'm sure do you. remember any incident. health and safety issues of course so uh. you know whether it is yeah fights.

breaking out or people just drinking too. much sometimes losing friends falling. um just have to make sure that you have. a very strong team in terms of security. also health and safety like for festival. for the Arenas we have a full. um mini hospital system which is like at. the venue so sna that you have to put. you in an ambulance and send you like 30. minutes away because the traffic anyway. is a big problem right so we again I'm.

not saying that what we do is perfect. there's definitely scope for improvement. but do you remember any incident where. you fell okay this is crazy or something. that has happened can we fight to you. yeah. so uh recently it's been in the news. that uh you know not just that our. events but many events there are a lot. of people stealing mobile phones huh oh. yes yes yes there was this so I think. that is something that the industry has. been grappling with. um.

so the police actually like uh you know. which which we were like like they were. checking everybody on the way out. like boss there are 20 000 people. leaving people will like lose their [ __ ]. at this. but they actually ended up like catching. the Gang. through that so there's like there are. like gangs over like and they're buying. tickets and coming because uh and kind. of yeah because I remember 30 phones. they stole yeah more than 40 50.

smartphones there. um. but so now again see these things you. have to work with the authorities. you have to you have to have police. backing and support so I think this has. been the biggest problem not just again. as I said not just for us but for others. as well. um. so we've run a full awareness campaign. please take care of your personal. belongings me personally I only wear. track pants with zips in festivals yeah. well that's a good hike yeah of us.

uh so but then you know beyond a point. everybody wants to have their phone out. and taking that video and taking selfies. and everything right so that is yeah. that's so that's that is a big big issue. but I think. this is not an issue usually doesn't. happen because then clubs usually this. happens in clubs that kind of happens. more I don't think that you know because. we have a younger crowd who don't have. those egos so if you haven't seen those.

massive fires breaking out yeah yeah but. one of the other big challenges for. festivals also people sneaking in drugs. and trying to do like drug overdose. around the world has become like a big. thing now or festivals May usually. India not here at least not I mean. definitely not at our events because. again I think that goes back to the. point that it's a young audience. um a lot of your colleges or first.

jobbers. and they're just there to have a good. time they'll have one or two drinks. three drinks Max but they are yeah they. are not the types to be like sneaking in. illegal substances and drugs is very. because there was a festival I think. Woodstock which was a bizarre. bhati it was a disaster. a lot of people ended up taking a lot of. illegal drugs and then they went crazy. over the act or fepura festival.

and these kind of things keep happening. around the world yeah so it's not a big. thing in India no no have you heard of. these things right now I've heard of. these things of course but um and and. you know there are certain genres of. music that uh lend themselves more to. these kind of things but I don't think. it happens here much at all. again because of the young audience that. we have yeah and I think it's also a. very Rock culture where a lot of people. maybe that punk rock culture or yeah.

I think one of my friends. there's a there's a John genre called. metal Rock. where where people head bang metal yeah. metal metal yeah heavy metal heavy metal. people head bang a lot so they overdose. on drugs and then they just head bang. head bang head banging I don't even. think they're on drugs but they are just. like. this. yeah and this this happens no we don't.

have mosh bits but we have people doing. crazy stuff man we have um. I mean the DJs make them do they make. them sit down all of them then they jump. up together they make them ready like. run into each other like this so it's. insane. those makes for some great drone shots. yeah yeah I remember yeah and I think. snake started this no Dimitri is like. much yeah. um.

we've done it in uh Europe. India yeah. just for whatever reason it's been. impossible to bring him down so maybe. someday that will change David Guetta as. well although he has come to India many.

times but he's come to India you know. we've also brought him for sunburn but. it's been a very long time so would love. to obviously so why do they not come is. there any reason yeah Calvin is one of. the most expensive DJs in the world. right yeah so there that is. I heard. he can pull off more crowd now he can. pull off yeah so that's the thing right. that see there are also.

um. I mean how do I put this there are there. are artists who recognize that India is. a very important market for them they. love the India fans and if you're coming. if they're coming to India because we. don't have the same ticket pricing we. cannot you know so here the strategy is. that maybe maybe the strategies that you. play more shows yeah you hit more. markets but your average fee will be a. little lesser per show yeah for sure. and therefore we did eight shows with. guy X we did six shows with snake we did. six with Alan Walker.

um you know and then because the truth. is that we still cannot afford to pay. what may be the bigger uh American. festivals or european promoters might be. paying and how much would like a Calvin. Harris would charge in Europe like a. million dollars or more possibly yeah. around that. around that article for a show around. that yeah possibly. so yeah we'll get there we'll get there. and how like usually do you have now. because people are coming back again.

again they must be having some. variables apart from the fixed costs. right okay they would be like okay. for example. 30 of the overall sales 20 does this. kind of deals no it yeah it works a. little different there are different. models there is one model which is like. that which is a versus model where you. have a guarantee of X and that's against. say 80 of the ticketing okay. um. so if that 80 is more than x you have to.

pay that okay but then what what we. usually do is that we are if you're. taking a fee off again of say two. hundred thousand dollars. and we have a scaling or a plan of. selling 12 000 tickets. which will cover our 15 margin so if we. go beyond 12 000 because the demand is. greater than expected and the when you. can take it then on those extra tickets. we will give you the majority share ah. because you are the artist in there yeah. you know so if we sell 15 000 tickets.

out of those three thousand tickets. maybe two thousand will go to you and. one thousand will come to us got it yeah. so the extra tomorrow. let's say you work with Martin Garrix. you work with uh Dimitri is like Mike. Hardwell you know marshmallow or Alan. Walker somebody Chainsmokers so you are. booking them can I also book them or can. someone else also book them see these. International agents and artists they'll. never give you a formal exclusivity.

for exclusivity. but I mean what we've seen to these guys. the relationships are super important. um so if you are doing good work. production here you're taking care of. them you're not giving them any reason. to. to move to anyone else so like most of. these guys that you mentioned. plus Martin snake Alan Walker Dimitri.

Vegas and Like Mike. you know they've been primarily coming. with us only for the last you can say. decade or or whatever and you know we we. work with them even strategically that. India plan on a chair right like so like. we worked with them and said that. if you did three shows vomitedly. Bangalore and they went very well why. don't we look at the two weekend tour. you give us two weekends and let's. expand let's see uh let's go to. different. cities you know let's do these PR.

activities in the days off. so we work with them like Partners to. help them expand their footprint in. India yeah so yeah but no there's no. formal exclusivity as such there's no. there's nothing like that so and so if. there's let's say. there's no exclusivity so I can pay and. get them right so I can get the same. like artist I can have the same. beautiful location yeah I can build a. similar setup and put up money what. makes. one event different from other. because.

you are doing in Bombay concerts. right concert but still you've seen even. though artists. like what is the reason why there are a. few festivals were successful yeah or. few Arenas a few concerts were. successful versus others it's not that. easy yeah. my tickets in fact I've seen the places.

where the same artist is coming again or. ticket prices. correct I think that's the you know. Brands aliens of sunburn that we've. built right over 15 years and see the. thing is that. what we've been through and what. learnings we have. you cannot acquire that overnight my. love even as a new promoter you'll have. to live through that you'll have to make. the same mistakes you'll have to live. through everything that there are no. shortcuts in life.

um you know so we have now come to a. stage where we know how things work we. know how the marketing works the. ticketing strategy the production the. challenges that one has to deal with. because we've kind of been through it. and we've been through every single. event. um. um uh you know Challenge and eventuality. over the years. and then I think from the artist point. of view also it's not just that okay if. if amping someone 100 and you pay 150. it's not just that because especially. for India they're like that boss that.

guarantee that everything will be smooth. well taken care of event will happen. firstly. um. we'll go back to you know our [ __ ]. Factory business or whatever yeah. so uh event will happen Security will be. fine there'll be no issues the. production will be world class. you know and they cannot trust those. things in these parts of the world.

so is sending money though is just one. part of it and often the easiest part of. it yeah. but what makes what do you think on on. ground for people what makes a. difference. this makes us different on ground I. think that orias are just in the. marketing. or no on on ground is the overall. experience and I think that. um. you know as I said earlier that even in. scenarios where maybe you're losing.

money or something but you still focus. on giving an amazing world-class. experience to all your attendees so they. will remember that they will recognize. that they will that there's nothing as. effective as Word of Mouth marketing I. think in not just in our industry but. every industry every industry right. because. if if my five friends tell me that boss. last name sun moon was fantastic then I. wanna go for it. but if they say that experience.

but what happens there's no amount of. Holdings were going on convince me but. what happens to big events let's say. Lola palooza first time in Yamaha right. one can say give a hot body franchise. worldwide but I'm a major Pele. right and I went with. correct and I met at least 20 30 people. there they had no clue what Lola police. are on the world is yeah right yeah.

obviously experience and all of that is. there yes but for Consumer mindset. over the years. I mean see in the live music genre. because we are in EDM the live music. this was the biggest thing to ever. happen in India. we feel Headliners made so the brand the.

headliners. everything because I experienced so it. was the first time happening right until. you go there you can only assume that. because. so there'll be a good experience. I know being a part of the same. organizational family that they went. absolutely all out on the experience it. was a good example yeah yeah so from you.

know everything from access to parking. to you know entry to of course the. inside FNB everything they went on it. was good actually it was one of the. most well done events in recent times. which I've attended it was not of a call. experience yeah absolutely neither. usually the stamped me. both the days were good exactly okay so. it's just. Headliners.

initially you have to rely on the lineup. to attract people but then yes you have. to follow that up with the experience. and then you keep losing money for first. one two three four years to build that. and then fifth sixth year so you start. actually yeah usually if you you know if. you do things right if you book The. Right artists if you get the right. sponsors to increase your Investments. then maybe you can make money earlier. also that's so intense yeah it's it's a.

crazy thing okay last uh question I have. that on the. challenging challenges part for everyone. who's watching this episode okay. or. um. in live event which people should think. of before they start getting into events. you know work in this event yeah. industry right yeah and experience like.

you can only tell us about three four. challenges. they say you were telling in your event. even if you're thinking is. no so I honestly firstly my advice is. that boss industry. so a lot of people think that event so. first though I mean this is now becoming.

a good solid professional industry so. start with a job huh. like um. even even if not sunburn because uh you. know there will be a lot of learnings. along the way and I said there's no. shortcuts in in in in Life or in this. sorry or or in this industry so start. work on a few big events a few big. festivals even if that is your end goal. you know just love I have had so many.

learnings. along the way man like give me give me. two three which you felt is a big thing. which look. see one is that I think that over over. the years you know we have tried to. become and I try to become more data. driven and less when the gut field pay. again.

so you study you make calculated. decisions. not just artists but anything could be. timing it could be venues it could be. you know how many repeat audience am I. getting if I'm not getting repeat. audience then where am I going wrong and. how do you get this data from like from. this ticketing data no like for example.

if I'm doing four concerts in Mumbai in. a year. and I'm having to sell to new 80 people. every time then I'm doing something. wrong no obviously no no I'm talking. about let's say there's a new city. right correct so how do you get data of. the city because. you you have to look at. um. some macro data in terms of. youth populations colleges everything.

and then also like maybe other events. you know. so I don't know if like you know if if. badshah has happened over there of. course that's Bollywood but it is still. like cool rap and all that so there'll. be some. um uh you know a conclusion that you can. draw from that. so yeah whatever then you'll never get. perfect data but the point is that don't.

only go on your only on guard tree that. is I mean that is like one learning that. I've had I'm the the other thing that I. would say is that live event industry is. all about attention to detail okay if. you if you want to be a. macro CEO that uh. right because. um. so you have to get into you have to get. your hands dirty or as you roll up your. sleeves or your pants or jeans or. whatever it is and get into the madness.

um. you know and uh. see these events are something where. um there's like a D-Day right so you. have to be able to handle that pressure. and the stress if you're not good with. that then maybe because you know it's. like you can't go to your boss and ask. for an extension now that listen I'm. running behind schedule give me another. week to complete this if you have an. outside event which is going to happen. on 15th of October that event is going. to happen on 15th of October if you're. not ready on 14th of October to [ __ ].

back okay then maybe you'll have a bad. event. foreign. exactly so because that's not how this. industry works. okay yeah interesting cool do you. how what's what's next for you like. sunburn you where do we go from here now.

no it's already the biggest in India. what's next for us is to keep growing. um you know as I was telling you we see. a lot of potential in this industry in. India so we want to grow to New Markets. in India we want to take the brand uh to. new territories you want to also take it. International that's a big Focus for us. you want to make it franchisee we want. to take it International through. franchise through Partnerships you know. sunburn was ranked in the as a 10th best. Festival in the world by DJ mag last.

year so first time an Asian festival has. broken into that ranking so our Festival. is now known across the world so you. know like Ultra happens in 30 different. countries I'm not saying 30 but why. can't we be in three countries to start. off with right and then apart from that. I think that we have already been on a. journey to make sunburn our lives a more. Lifestyle brand not just events so we've. Diversified into merchandise is we have. ranges with board with Fast Track we. have a range coming up with Jack and.

Jones soon we have deodorants out. um as well uh and you know we have. Diversified into FNB Hospitality. business so we currently have a. franchise uh outlets in. four cities across India already. so. these are all steps to make sunburn more. of a household uh lifestyle next country. for you next country this year's first. country would probably be Sri Lanka oh. nice yeah.

uh because we yeah we do have a very. active and advanced discussion to do. something that was the end of the year. and obviously logically that makes the. most sense from a proximity point of. view. uh yeah so that would probably be the. first one oh that's interesting thank. you so much for being here no thanks for. having me. like a lot of insights a lot of things I. I could see that some of things you're. like. but I'm glad that you did it okay thanks. a lot for doing this thank you so much.

for watching this episode till the end. please. and before you leave you know the drill. please like subscribe comment and most. importantly share this with one person. is conversations.

so one idea is enough to achieve their. Indian dream s yoga. thank you so much until the next episode. keep figuring out.