Creating WEALTH Like A PRO ft. Ashish Kashyap - FO 10 | Raj Shamani

i want you to talk about three skills. or three three things about a person. which really intrigues you and you feel. that okay this is why this person should. be on dream team. what are those like what do you look in. the talent. welcome to another episode of figuring. out today. i have a guest who i'm very very excited. to get on my podcast because there are. two reasons. number one. every friend who i've spoken to they all.

are like bro you're doing it with ashish. bro you're doing with ashish everybody. got excited as excited as i am today and. i'm talking about all the entrepreneurs. who i respect everyone in the country. who have called for the podcast. everybody got excited for this guest so. that's the reason number one and the. reason number two is. ashish is the absolute gold rush for all. the aspiring entrepreneurs he has done. it all from the. online travel space to the fintech he. has built his startup he's acquired some.

he got an exit he did every goddamn. thing which. i think ashish you have done. everything. which we read in books in the startup. world we it's there's everything you. have been to the top top b schools you. have. been the head of. the very big company in india you have. been head of google. and at the same time you have built your. own startup then it got acquired like. you had a merger and then you started. another company you have done everything.

is there anything which you feel like. okay. i want to do something else now. so raj i think the firstly uh thanks for. getting me over on this. show and on this podcast and i hope i. don't let. any of your. fellow entrepreneurs down. and and the viewers but uh you know. thanks and very very humbling experience. to your question. uh you know i think if you look at. my journey at ibibo.

uh. we built a very large brand coming out. of hundreds of failures. uh but okay clearly for me that is an. unfinished business. we did okay we did reach certain heights. and you know from my vantage point. that is an unfinished business and. that's why the. that's why the birth of in money. which is to really you know of course. it's in a very different sector it's. solving a very different problem but. from my vantage point i mean this should.

be the culmination over the next many. years. and hopefully we are able to produce an. institution. uh and create uh immense immense value. for all constituents. uh so yeah so i think uh that's the way. i look at it. uh. and and then it's then one doesn't know. the future right. and that's that's the beautiful thing. about all the entrepreneurs. that they're very hungry they always. feel that there's something which didn't. happen last time and i need to do uh i. need to finish this business this time.

and that that's what keeps us going so. before we get into the crux of the. podcast and before we go on to get on to. other questions which i have prepared. for you. i. really want to put this out that you. know. people really don't get to pick brains. of entrepreneurs like you on everyday. basis. it and it puts such a pressure on me to. get right inside and write answers from. you. but. i believe that if you want to have the. right answers you need to ask the right.

questions and let's started with this. way that what is the right question. according to you and how can someone ask. right questions. yeah i think. so firstly. you know a question. and an insight is dependent upon. uh. many uh. variables right so what is the timing. uh who all are involved in building. something or doing something so which is. what is called as a team. what is the readiness.

who are the other players so it's like. many many variables. so. building a company. is very uh i would say like playing. playing a football game there is a. strategy. but you don't really have time to you. know start looking. in the sky and thinking about too much. of strategies you know you're passing. the ball there is a broad outline. strategy you're taking decisions very. very quickly you're making many many. mistakes actually making more mistakes.

so so i guess uh. i you know it really i think you're. asking the right question depends upon. the framework. but at an overarching level. what i would like to share is that. the only way to start asking the right. questions and the only way to. start doing something is by doing it by. iterating. and not not overthinking. and learning and constantly.

you know you are going to see many. failures right. and my suggestion to people is that. listen see those mini failures faster. and sooner then better and embrace them. don't get. kind of uh. demotivated because of them because. those mini failures are teaching you. and you're learning and that's that's. really the data points and that's those. are the real questions right. and those are the real out of those. questions those insights are coming that. how do i i trade. whatever i'm building. to take you to the next level.

so i just don't think. that. you know there is a kind of a playbook. a a set playbook. because let's say the company that i. built in the past. i cannot embrace the playbook. into the into in money. because the context is different. industries different teams teams are. different. problem and solution is different. uh you know there is a very different. addressable audience so everything is.

kind of different so the playbook has to. be now unique. and hence hence retrofitting the. playbook that i had in for go ib or a. red bus or a pay you cannot just kind of. i can't just put it even between go. people red bus which is similar. businesses travel. they were like unique playbooks and even. and for payments also there was a unique. playbook so i think. one cannot retrofit playbooks one cannot. say okay i'm going to look at these 10. commandments and i'm going to fit into. my business.

but just one thing i want to say is that. the best way to build is learning by. doing which means do it i just see too. many people they talk about ideas. but they just don't shift them. and even if they're disastrous it's good. right but shipping disastrous ideas are. great. rather than not shipping anything. so ship them learn from those mini. mistakes failures celebrate those. failures and say okay i learned these. four things from this and now i'm going. to i trade in this way again you'll fail.

again you'll fall. i learn these two things and i'm gonna. and then you. keep doing trial and error and then you. start then you start hitting it's almost. like a game of cricket right you start. batting and. the timing is not happening and then you. know if you're resilient. by the 10th ball you know you get your. first run and then by the. by the. by the maybe 16th ball you start hitting. a four. yeah that's there i mean if you look at.

it and that's that's a major problem and. i you i see that you are very bullish in. procrastination and you were talking. about it right now as well that you. can't learn to play cricket by just. talking about it you need to start doing. this stuff and. also do you think like you talked about. a very simple thing that you need to. strategize on point and you need to make. decisions right then and there do you. think that kind of learning comes from. your appetite to try sports and like be.

very competitive in the sports world or. do you think it's something which your. parents have instilled you since the. beginning because i was reading about. you as well. and i read somewhere that. you are not big fan of. democratic decisions when it comes to. building a team or taking team decisions. you believe that decisions need to be. made take instantly because you don't. have much time so does that come from. the way you have been brought up or does. that come from your just appetite to. play sports.

yeah i think a bit of both because i do. love playing sports. and also a bit of. my family background. so i think bit of bit of both. where. and a little bit of my personal nature. of sometimes people say one has to be. super patient. i'm not too sure whether that that's. that's the right thing that you need to. be overly patient uh i i think some bit. of impatience or some bit of positive. paranoia is actually.

a value additive. uh so i think it comes from multiple. multiple things right the way i would. have grown up the way. the fact that i like playing sport the. fact that you know i'm a little. impatient so one needs to get those. decisions done right and you know what a. lot of decisions go wrong right even. today i make some wrong decisions. but the trick here is to say very. honestly that listen i screwed up. this decision was wrong. and now i'm going to. now i'm going to try something else.

okay so you you do. you do make some wrong calls you'll make. some wrong decisions teams will also. make some wrong decisions. but definitely you don't have time. to say that let's make a democratically. popular decision. which will take six months and that is. one of the reasons why. very few percentage of companies succeed. because people are just slow. to make those decisions make those calls. so yeah i mean i think it comes from.

multiple. uh. aspects of my personal batteries. speed. i want to conclude this with speed over. everything that's what you build that's. what you'll have to say and. there's a very contradictory question. because. so you are in a space within money is a. personal wealth creation space right so. and that's. wealth creation is always everywhere i. read it's related to patience. and. my my question is that most of the.

people who are impatient they usually. make mistakes and want to get money. early. and that is where they lose because and. also i think not there most of the. people don't even dream about becoming. wealthy. all they want is little security in. their life like they want to have. some money. because more money patience being. extremely rich is always seen as. something very evil in our society. why do you think that india has such a. rage against wealthy people and how an.

individual who is very impatient and has. been conditioned to not being. not dream big not create wealth how can. that person create wealth so i think to. very interesting questions number one is. uh. on. so something which is actually i. something which is not good for this. country. is that a huge amount of concentration. of money. so only a percent. percent and a half population.

control 98 of money of this country. or 99 so that's huge amount of. concentration. power differential. uh so this so so essentially i think. that's not healthy for the country. and and and there are similar patterns. in other parts of the world but i think. in india the skews a lot a lot more than. maybe uh us. so obviously there is. going to be a bit of uh i would say. frustration.

because there has to be more. distribution of wealth which needs to. happen. uh. and i would love to participate in that. journey right how do we how do we get to. do more distribution. i think tech startup ecosystem is a. great start great way for. many many people to uh become. financially better in their lives and. that distribution of wealth should. happen so that's on the first one. on the second one uh you know on the on. your question of patience.

so i think. there are two aspects right one is your. financial life timeline. and the second is wealth creation. so there are actually two. different questions right so one is. financial life timeline. where every individual needs to. have certain. safety net what we call as emergency. goal. then that individual needs to plan for. his own marriage if he's not married or. if he's married then marriage of his. kids and kids education and all of those.

kind of goals and house and all of that. stuff and then finally retirement and. then wealth creation which is. essentially uh in uh you know. participating in uh. you know. giving inheritance to your family etc. etc. so. i think uh all of this is not just about. wealth creation. but it's about the financial timeline. think of it like a like your like your. wall on facebook right it starts from a. date and. goes on to a wide date.

and uh. this this particular planning. is quite and these are things that we as. in money are doing right which is to. help people to. at scale plan their financial life. without and using a lot of data science. and machine learning. and the other point here i want to say. is that you know. uh. growing money. is almost like the eighth wonder of the. world which is compounding. so compounding is the eighth wonder of.

the world. so more than patience it's about. understanding this concept that. compounding is the. eighth wonder of the world. and and the only way people can achieve. this is over a period of time. so that concept needs to be understood. backed by some other concepts like you. know what is a what is that family's. risk profile what is that family's. financial life timeline. uh you know what is what should be the. asset allocation of that family so those. are a little bit of complicated.

questions. which you know we try to as a company. deliver by really really simplifying. the stuff for the users. uh and uh you know try and we try and. educate as much we can but listen what. is that eight funder of the world which. is compounding how does. how does the lack rupees become. 20 lakh rupees over a period of time but. the person has to be disciplined. uh yeah to to to do that right and i. guess the.

impatience needs to be about. participating in that financial timeline. that should be the impatience a lot of. people are actually very lazy. and have a lot of inertia to participate. in that timeline. and for that i think people have to be. impatient. and do it. so so that so that's that's really my. view and the simile that you know. compounding of money versus. building startups.

two different parallels right even a. startup needs to deliver power of. compounding. yeah but for that startup to deliver. that power of compounding it needs to. deliver humongous value to constituents. and to discover that value one has to be. impatient because one has to be doing. trial and error. so that's how. i uh you know connect the dots. no that's that's beautiful because you. try to combine like you try to touch. upon every point and you try to. correlate them with power of compounding.

i just want to make it very very easy. for people who are watching it for the. first time and some like many of my. users and audience they are around. 18 19 20 they're just getting started. they don't understand and that's the. right time to get into person well and. i've been using your uh app since quite. a while and that's why i was very. interested to do this podcast because i. i've. i don't say this very often. but i've used many apps okay and this is. by far the best app i've used and i'm.

not saying it just because you're here i. genuinely say it my entire team knows. about it. okay and there are a lot of things which. i like about it we can touch on that. later. but for everybody who's watching who. just getting started you talked about. power of compounding would you want to. touch upon and make it very simple for. people that what really compounding is. in maybe 60 seconds or 120 seconds if. you can like so that they get a brief. idea oh yeah. that thing.

yeah so i you know i i to to so i'll do. it through an example. let's say you have hundred rupees. okay and that hundred hundred rupees. typically you you leave it in your. savings account. or you spend it. if you leave that hundred rupees in a. savings account it would give you three. to four percent of interest rate. which is a linear simple interest rate. which is it could give you three or four. rupees. but if you. put that hundred rupees in a disciplined.

asset allocated depending upon your risk. profile in in capital markets. which is equities etfs. mutual funds. uh bonds etc so mix of all of that bit. depending upon your depending upon your. risk. then you could typically end up getting. let's say 11 to 12. so so not only that 100 rupees becomes. 111 but you start earning 111 also. so even on that 11 that you're earning.

and that compounds. and over a period of. uh 10 years even if you're very very. conservative that 100 rupees suddenly. becomes. uh 1500 rupees so that is really the. simple example there is obviously a. formula which i don't want to confuse. the. but it's essentially it's like the it's. even that. even that uh returns that you're earning. those returns are further earning for. you. and that's what is all getting.

compounded. that's what it means and what do you. think what's better because there's. always question i read a lot of articles. about it as well. let's say. i if i have 100 rupees should i put 10. rupees in 10 months or should i put 100. rupees at for 10 months what's the. better way to look at it. yeah so i think uh typically. your question is that when should i put. the money right uh so my sense is that. and these are things which we as a.

company deliver to our audience. which is it depends upon. what is the market risk presently and. what is the market situation. so let's save the situation in the. market is very volatile. and the markets are very expensive very. fluffy. then the recommendation would be to. average out. over 10 months. but if let's say the markets are. attractive. suddenly. uh you know things have kind of got. settled. more more settled then it will be better. to put that hundred rupees up front if.

you have that hundred rupees. it all depends on the right timing and. even that hundred rupees that you put. over 10 months. you know our system will tell you how to. first. put the 90 rupees. in some kind of a. instrument which also will give you. uh better returns. and start putting the ten ten ten every. month or or over a 15 month period. depending upon the situation. so yeah so.

yeah go ahead. i was telling you like this what i tried. with your okay. i tried to get the premium version of it. i tried to subscribe it and i i went on. to ask the professional in your app. they're okay you know what i'm putting. this much money i want it in a year like. i want it back in a year. and. this is what i liked about it that there. were few things which a professional. called me up and told me okay raj if. you're gonna do it for a year i'm not. allowing you to put it in this kind of. market.

yeah. and this is not what you what you get to. hear on daily basis yeah yeah so that's. that's that's so i think everything. which you said your app is already doing. it's like asset allocation and putting. it right money at the right time. looking at the market using machine. learning to do that well. that gets me to a point to a product and. startup because this is something very. nice and very unique because. i love it i'm sure many people must be. loving it as well.

that. you're building startups after startups. and all of them are pretty fantastic. products you're like the ultimate og or. for the inspiring entrepreneurs like. what does it take to build a startup. because a lot of my audience wants to. build meaningful solutions. for the world and they want to. in return create wealth for themselves. as well. and i want to know how to do that what. does it take to build a startup. so i think the first is to really.

so you know one of the things is that. whenever i build something. it has been a personal pain area it's. like the wearer only knows where the. shoe pinches. so you know getting to feel a big big. pain. so when i used to try and let's say book. hotels and air tickets amongst hundreds. like we were 100 startup. in the travel space. but the 99 guys were not really really. solving a problem. the 99 guys.

uh out there with due respect were you. know there were too many errors while. making bookings there were too many. cancellations you're walking into a. hotel the hotelier is saying i'm not. going to accept your booking so it was. my personal pain area right because we. all had to. travel efficiently and i said listen can. we just solve can we make this. travel. online travel systems more reliable. better. better execution uh you know better. pricing better selection more reliable.

so. that is how we looked at it it was a. personal pain area similarly the reason. why pay you came about is because we. used to at that moment of time it was a. third party payment system for boy. people. and the payment success rates were. really low and it was terrible right i. mean i used to feel like crying to look. at customers are coming into your shop. and then imagine somebody's coming into. your shop pushing a cart and you know. you're chucking the person out of the. shop right no i'm not i'm not going to. allow you to. check out right. and that's how we said listen we'll.

solve this payment problem ourselves and. we launched ib pay later on we rebranded. it to pay. you and. you know and then once we solve it for. us as a merchant. we say why don't we solve it for others. and then we took pay you out and now. they use this independent company and. again a pretty. ubiquitous payment gateway in the in the. in the nation. uh similarly uh you know in money is. because of my personal pain area a lot. of. offline guys have delivered.

undelivered biased advice. advisory with lots of commission loaded. products financial products have been. sold to me like normal stock keeping. units almost like fruits and vegetables. insurance products have been sold. incorrectly. uh you know and so so that so that. that's one then nobody in the nation had. the wherewithal to actually bring. all your fragmented expenses and savings. and finances all in a single place. across your family members because at.

the end of the day that's your balance. sheet right that's your yeah that's. really your uh you know that's really. your crux of your finance right then. only can there be a planning which can. be done on top of it. so nobody you know the best of the. biggest of the biggest companies were. just interested in making commissions. from customers like us and not bothered. about bettering our financial life. and not. not not in fact leveraging technology. most of the financial work at scale is. happening on excels excels and through.

some human and we said that listen this. is not an excel problem this is not a. human problem this is actually a data. science problem because it's so much of. data. and uh. also you know i i reflected that listen. a lot of people have tried to do pfm. personal finance management but then. their ask is listen go and do data entry. onto the on to your onto the website we. said can we automate. can we automate money management can we. get people to automatically organize. their finances so a lot of it was driven.

by uh you know my personal pain areas. and then pain area of people around me. and i think the key is. for the entrepreneur to figure out. what is that pain area. and. actually feel passionate about solving. uh and elevating and sort and solving. and giving or delivering a solution. right a lot of times when entrepreneurs. try to.

produce a company or a product or an. application it's driven by. hearsay it's driven by. you know just a fomo. but if one was to step back and say. listen i'm really passionate about. solving this problem. you know these are the 20 problems and. out of 20 maybe 17 i'm going to give up. but three i'm going to solve. that then there's going to be magic. because. the insights which are going to come out. of that entrepreneur and his team is. just going to be immense.

yep. okay. you you said something. you you you talked about something. really interesting called fomo. okay and i i want to put it out because. whether it's startup world most of the. people want to become entrepreneurs. because they don't want to miss out on. something right like it's it has now. become all of a sudden it's glamorous. world which everybody wants to taste. blood. uh and all of a sudden we're talking. about something i don't know if you. wanna you can say no if you don't wanna. answer. but the major fomo thing is right now.

going on with the cryptocurrency market. would you suggest people to go get into. it would you personally invest into it. or no i mean don't just what do you want. to explore so firstly i think my view is. that uh. cryptocurrency is a commodity just like. gold. and if if somebody's. uh risk profile is aggressive. that person should have a small. percentage or a percentage of his assets.

or investments into something like. cryptocurrency. uh i think clearly you know i i think. one thing i'm convinced it is it is a. commodity now just like the way you. would buy gold bonds or digital gold. same way you have cryptocurrency just. like the way you would invest in equity. just like the way you would invest in. debt. in my mind it's not a currency yet. it's a commodity. uh i think it could definitely become a. currency so that's the first thing and. if somebody's asset allocation is.

aggressive or even moderately aggressive. a. percentage of allocation should go into. cryptocurrency. but having said that. given the. regulatory framework right now in the. country given the lack of clarity from. taxation. purpose etc. one would be one shouldn't one would one. needs to be kind of careful because you. are as an indian making a transaction. uh you know which could violate. and you know you could get harassed by.

some. regulator or tax department so you've. got to be careful right i mean i think i. would love that there is clarity. and i would definitely love it that the. regulators make it very clear what's. possible what's not possible in what. format for example today's date our. application enables consumers to. invest in u.s equities. which means. people can buy facebook google apple et. cetera et cetera and fractions. uh but that's kind of that's regulated.

because consumers can send their money. to invest via the liberated remittance. scheme of rbi. and it. and it's like properly bona fide banks. can do it et cetera et cetera. so similarly for crypto there should be. a regulatory framework. and i hope that they that the government. really puts that out there very very. fast. because. uh you don't. want that as a nation. you lag behind and your and your. citizens don't have any exposure to an. important commodity it's almost like.

saying listen indians can't buy gold. right so. so yeah so that's really my view on the. topic. no now we you talked about very good. thing that uh. indians should not lag behind with. something because there's no clarity. okay we should not lose this advantage. and you are also building startups in. the fintech space right which is. essentially. which helps people get better with their. money management empower them and.

educate them so that they can get richer. in a country like india okay but. in our country if we talk about there. are a lot of strengths as well. we are. uh there are a lot of young people. extreme extremely talented people and we. are known in the world for working hard. day in and day out because that's given. still we are considered as a like a poor. nation and if you want me to break it. down like a simple question. what is that which is keeping indians.

poor and what is stopping them to create. wealth what do you think is that. i. think you know. so first is that it is. we need to we need to you know coming. back to the first question we need to. find ways to do that distribution of. wealth. right it is it is very very large and. how can we do that very concentrated. right i think. we need. exactly the stuff that you are doing. encouraging people to start up right and.

more and more people need to start up in. this nation. more and more engineers who are coming. out of their college need to. essentially join. startups. need to uh you know join uh. need to need to not join tcs's of the. world but due respect right. uh. they need to uh you know and also not. perhaps even join microsoft's of the. world right they need to be part of the. creator economy they need to start. creating so either as.

as entrepreneurs or starting up with. other entrepreneurs and then becoming. entrepreneurs so i think that's one. thing which definitely definitely needs. to be done. you know the other thing that we need to. do is to really become disciplined. executors. okay. so you know so in my previous company. one of our investors one of our main. investors is a chinese company called. tencent so i would go to. uh shenzhen very often.

okay uh 10 cent is a 600 billion. market cap company etc etc so i would. observe you know what's happening there. this is like many years ago. and one of the things that i noticed is. that. the. technology workforce is hugely. disciplined like they they execute. things on time. and you know they are like very very. disciplined rights disciplined in. managing their projects. and completing their projects. us as indians we lack that discipline.

which is visible the way we drive on the. roads right that discipline right. suddenly someplace we would like to take. that shortcut. which is very hazardous and it ends up. into disasters. so that mental discipline in our head. you know it's a hard one we need to get. that. and you know that's also reflected. reflective if you look at the top apps. in this country they are. a bit of we have a bit of colonization. if you look at it.

um truly. made in india apps are still very very. few in the top deck of top 50 apps. or consumer products in the country. so i i think. really uh. second thing i would really encourage. people should get discipline disciplined. execution. is very very important right with the. notion of time that listen i need to put. something out there. next week. by this date. uh which i think i'll be honest and this.

may be a very unpopular. some unpopular words coming out of me. but there is there is that lack of. discipline that i've seen. which we just need to improve. no that's there like indians there's. also one thing we're known for it's like. we don't. be in so whenever i talk to my friends. in the western world every time they're. like we need to get on a zoom call at. three and they say bro three hour time. not your time. so usually hour three starts at 3 30 or. 3 20 and that's that's bad i think we.

need to work on that what do you think. is a major difference between because. you said not the not the biggest of the. biggest m c's of the world you need to. start working with startups in order to. get in the creator economy what do you. think is the biggest difference why do. you say so what's that one difference. which makes you say that people should. join startups more than this. sorry people should join startups more. than going into a more predictable. yeah more more than yeah more than going. to the more predictable world or better. like mncs or anything of that sort.

why do you think to be honest in a very. structured large multinational or a. large software service shop kind of a. environment in a startup the individuals. learning is 100 times more than. in a more predictable world so. what an individual will learn in six. months time. it will take him six years to learn in. let's say a more predictable environment. or a more structured environment and the.

contribution that that individual will. make which means when you ship ship a. product ship a feature and see that the. consumers are benefiting from it he'll. be able to derive. that feeling of uh impact right there. whereas in a more structured environment. you know one of my favorite questions. when i ask people okay what did you do. in the last five years. you know what many people still struggle. who are not part of the startup. environment they say you know my job was. to do this. you know i did a great job of doing.

quality assurance as an example but i. said that was your job but what impact. did you create and if you ask this. question a lot of people struggle with. the same you ask the same question to a. person who worked at startup he will. rattle i did these 20 things which. helped conversion rates to increase. so many new users came to the. application. so much of revenue increase so much of. churn reduce so everybody will have the. right. kind of answers but a person coming from. the structured world will struggle.

and will you know we realize that. actually he spent his entire life not. actually. truly impacting the lives of the people. that's that's there. because i'm also i'm now thinking that. okay. people who have joined me in in my. company and okay and they have come from. the. the biggest of the biggest companies. from the from the nation. they they all have said the same thing. that you know the only difference which.

we have here is. we feel that. we did something. and just because we did this particular. thing. x amount of impact happened or this is. this is how the numbers went up or this. is why we made a mistake so i think that. makes a lot of sense because that also. gives them a sense of authority and. sense of uh. you know accountability of themselves so. they wanna. they learn a lot more things that's. there. but. from the individual growth perspective.

because a lot of people struggle with. answering this one question i'm. i'm sure they must be struggling with. growing themselves up as well. so. if you were given a chance that you can. only read three books or. to grow yourself you were only allowed. to read three books in your lifetime. what would be those three books. ah difficult difficult question uh. i'm not a big fan of reading books. honestly. okay but okay.

so i think. so instead of reading books yeah. if you're not a big fan of reading books. what would be the what would be three. things an individual can do to grow. themselves up. yeah i think. uh definitely. uh and you don't need to read books to. learn right you can. you can you can you can definitely read. so definitely the individual so one of. the most important thing is curiosity. so people should. surely uh you know read.

a lot. that's very very important. uh and. you know. ask the right questions and then. research those. uh you know research those aspects so. for example when i was. thinking of personal finance management. back in 2018 brainstorming. uh at that time i did. uh read a lot about. what is happening in the personal. finance management space across the. world. uh you know who are the top startups in.

u.s who are the top startups in china in. this space besides india. you know. went down to reading a lot about. companies like charles schwab. wealthfront betterment all of these kind. of companies. uh you know went very very deep played. around with their applications uh you. know read a lot about the kind of. algorithms they use that their design. philosophy so you typically immerse. yourself and you research the topics. very very deeply what are the business.

models uh that play out and so on and so. forth so i think. definitely reading a lot. is uh very very important. uh for people to. you know constantly evolve themselves. the second thing that i would love to. say is. testing. testing testing testing. so i know i love this whole. live experiences right so when you are. so let's say when you want to get to. know about something you'll read but how.

do you experience it. right so it could be an enterprise. product. or it could be a consumer-facing product. it could be a tangible product. or it could be an intangible product. right it could be a mobile app it could. be a. mobile phone it could be a iot device. so i the second thing is testing and. learning by hands-on experiencing these. things. that learning is just unparalleled. because when you truly start playing.

around. for example if somebody is. interested in. building a mental wellness application. then that person should definitely look. look around and download. mental wellness applications across the. world in different languages. if if he or she is able to find or if. if it is a very unique idea then what. are the similes what are the parallels. of it right. and just play around and definitely. uh test so that's the second third.

is i would say network. you learn a lot from networking. communicating engaging socially formally. informally right that so i think these. are the three and then you that's where. you also discover right those networks. help you to discover and learn even more. right there are lots of feedback loops. that hey. raj i have this idea. you know and i'm thinking about this and. raj will say i have this idea and then. there's those those notes that get. exchanged in that network the learnings. are quite unparalleled so i mean three.

things that the person should do. research i would actually not even say. read research. because if. if he researches he's obviously. passionate about the topics right. uh i mean. if if he's a technologist and he works. on python he needs to research a lot on. golang and then second is. to test to actually do mvps of using. goliath right and third is then network. in that community or golang in python or. whatever right so that's the way. that's these are three very critical.

things that a person should do for. really immense amount of. now that's there and you. you talked about networking right and. you must i'm sure that you must have. came across couple of people you must. have had a crazy network across the. globe. if i want to put ask you this it's just. from personal curiosity that. if. you know if there was a new startup. which you wanted to start and you don't. know which industry you don't know.

anything you just want to start a new. company. who would be the three founders or three. people who you feel like okay they will. be in my dream team with me. because you you have networked with you. have you know who's the host of the. world you've networked with the right. people. have you ever came across three people. or who you can bet on like yeah but. these are the three people i want and i. want it from the starter world from. india because you you must have had. friends as well. i i wouldn't. obviously there are three not three. there are about eight or nine names.

there is a lot of talent and very very. talented. bunch of entrepreneurs out there in. india. and that's increasing right i mean if. you go 10 years ago. you would have asked me this question i. would have had no answer. but this is this is obviously increasing. but it'll be kind of politically. incorrect for me to name. because of. many issues and reasons. but i would say there would be about at. least seven or eight really really. strong entrepreneurs that i would love. to work with somewhere in the future.

a few so yeah so. absolutely get but let's now that i've. asked this question okay let's make it. easy from the user's perspective i i. don't want you to be i don't want to. take three names i want you to. talk about three skills. or three. three things about a person which really. intrigues you and you feel that okay. this is why this person should be on. dream team. what are the like what do you look in. the talent. curiosity. yeah energy.

and uh problem solving. problem solving approach like in life. yeah so let's solve like i mean if you. if you today's date. look at. a lot of people talk about problems. a lot of people said you know they're. they say. and they they articulate those problems. really well they will tell you raj you. know the challenges are these five. but very few people give solutions.

right yeah and and i think you want in. your team. not just scribblers and pro and talking. about the problems we can see the. problems right. for sure and of course you need to be. smart enough to even articulate the. problems but what you want in your team. is people who have high you know. solutioning and solutioning and that. solution may not be correct. but at least there is an approach to try. and solve right. so solutioning. high energy right because because how do. you how do you get high energy because i.

i've heard this so many times from so. many people what is your personal mantra. to to stay high energy like be extremely. energetic or what should an individual. do like just eat try it sleep well and. work out or what is that energy mean. yeah see it's a bit tacit like you know. right now i'm talking to you raj. obviously i can say raj is a high energy. person right and it's mix of many things. the way you're talking the way you're. approaching your questions the way. what you are doing in life et cetera et. cetera right.

uh i don't think again there is a single. uh magic bullet to say this person or if. there's that this is the metric to say. that this person is high energy low. energy you can you can kind of feel it. uh. typically but definitely. just like the way you can feel high. energy you definitely don't want a low. energy person in your team so even if a. person so my so the way i look at it is. that. even if a person so let's let's let's. make a metric right let's say y-axis. is okay is energy level.

okay so top at the plus of y is very. high energy. bottom is. low energy. and let's say x axis. is skill. brilliance and scale. so plus is very very very high skill. and minus. is very very very low skill brilliance. right so let's say there is an. individual. which is really high scale. but very low energy.

which means he's at the bottom right. quadrant. yeah you don't want that person in your. team. so this person is like super brilliant. like he's like 100 x of raj's brilliance. for example. but this guy is very. very low energy he drains energy he's an. energy sucker. you don't want such individuals in your. team. in fact it's better to have a person. with slightly lower skills.

but with little bit energy but very high. energy right so so so almost like the. like on the like like on the not on the. top right quadrant but let's say if you. were to move the dot more closer to the. y axis. at the top so slightly lower skill. and high energy because skill. brilliance all of that comes as the. person executes and learns and. experiences things. so that's really uh you know uh that's. really my that's how you identify.

yeah yeah. if i were to put a more kind of a. predictable structure to it. yeah okay now that we're talking about. raj and so i heard one thing from a. friend maybe throng but i heard that. you're not very big on the influencer. marketing game. like you don't you don't. believe in it. uh so why do you think it's not worth. the money why do you think that because. everybody's spending tons on influencer. marketing.

right and creator economy is building up. big why do you think it's not worth the. money why do you think it's not good. no i i never said so. so i i guess if you look at my previous. startup we didn't have the influencer. ecosystem. right okay but if you if you look at the. current startup we've still not really. gone. and accelerated uh. to make the app ubiquitous because. you know it's uh we focused on first.

building the core value of the product. to make the system better and better and. now as we speak we are now kind of going. to step up and definitely. what my marketing and growth team tells. me that influencer marketing is. definitely one of the. important pieces. having said that you know we need to. obviously be uh. careful in. attracting the right audience because. the application. serves the purpose for for an. addressable audience right.

and not perhaps for another audience so. we got to be obviously we have to. calibrate that. as we go into. uh investing behind influencer marketing. but i i clearly. you know what we've seen. is that when influencers. have talked about us on social media. and this is without us going through a. formal influencer marketing program. they've talked about us as customers. normal customers without us. you know asking them to do so via a. formal arrangement.

we have definitely benefited raj. so but we are obviously wanting to uh. and i'm sure. i would definitely request the team to. connect with you to get the code right. right because we definitely don't. want the wrong audience to kind of. download the app because they'll not. find it beneficial and then they then. they won't like it we won't like it. right so we need to get that marriage. right. nice okay uh. and. so you talked about. this builds me an instant question okay.

i was going to the last question but i. just want to fit in another question. quickly because you talked about. reaching to the right people right you. want your marketing team or your team to. reach out to the right influencers it's. reaching the right people and every time. when we ask an entrepreneur or somebody. who's successful that. how do we become successful or what a. young person should do. they always talk about passion curiosity. hard work like you know discipline.

these are very individualistic things. but the most one of the most essential. elements is. that people you cannot grow much without. having tight set of people in life right. so. how what what do you think what should. be the ground approach for all of us for. young people who are. aspiring to get somewhere in the life. what should be the right approach or the. ground rules for approaching people and. if there's something like giving. something and asking something for.

return is are there any ground rules or. what should i do how do i approach. people yeah i think. typically let's say. if. so so so i i guess one has to be quite. uh. i would say. when you're approaching people. it has to be. uh a lot of people when they approach. people there is a lot of. vagueness right there's a lot of. vagueness and ambiguity. uh there's already so much of clutter in.

in the world right. uh you know today's date when a. salesperson approaches me. he doesn't come to the point he will go. long-winded and there's already so much. of ambiguity and so much of clutter in. the world right like you're being. bombarded with so much content from. everywhere. so. essentially when you are approaching. someone. what you need to figure out what would. you say to that person in 10 seconds. which matters to the person.

and which he is able to understand it's. almost like the. like the grandmother test right. so if you were to tell your grandmother. something. she should be able to understand and. that too in 10 to 20 seconds or maybe at. max 60 seconds. and it should not be this long. uh. 20 minute 30 minute monologue in the. last two minutes. you finally coming to the crux so you. want to avoid that so it's almost like a. headline right like.

like a headline tells you everything. right a headline and a sub headline. tells you everything so you want to say. that wow. that's that's one of the um. that's one of the most powerful thing. i've heard it's very simple thing. that you would you must be able to. ask that person in 10 seconds instead of. 20 minutes the grandmother test. that's. that's so true. i'm just thinking about it that.

so many so many times i've lost an. opportunity because i was over. exaggerating the situation. and i wasn't on point and by the time i. came to the point the person was already. not interested in me and they they just. left yeah because that's quite too much. of clutter right in a person's life. too much of content and people in. general if you look at the insight is. that in general people. minds are lazy right. and. they don't unless there's something. super urgent.

they don't want to put to it right so. hence you want to you want to go with. the assumption yes minds are lazy. how do you get in the concept. you know very very quickly. and sometimes. you don't have a specific agenda when. you reach out to people okay sometimes. let's say if i. genuinely meet you in a networking event. or i see you in a party. i just want to reach out to you and. become friends because i think you are. somebody who i aspire like you know i.

think you're a man of value. so at that time what should a person do. because there's no specific agenda i. don't have a specific question or. something to ask and be like you know. what let's build this startup i don't. have that that setting is very different. there the expectations are. nil right expectations on every either. party in a social setting is nearly. uh and and it and it does not need to be. transactional it doesn't need to be you. don't need to do the grandmother test in. that situation because the expectations. are nil but let's assume that you are.

approaching someone and saying. that listen i i have an idea and i have. a proposal. that you want to keep it very very. specific but in a social setup in a. networking event. etc it's more about getting to know i. you know for example what are you doing. what do i do. kind of a situation and the expectations. are nil and that's why sometimes. networking. in informal networking setups it's good. right because expectations are nailed. you're not expecting.

a conclusion out of it and yet and then. you know both sides are actually. deciphering. uh in a very tacit way what could be the. tangible or intangible value both sides. could perhaps bring to the table. but that's not the core agenda. yeah that's there. well this gets me to the last segment of. it it's very personal and i'll be very. selfish here so my my. last question is divided actually into. three parts because i do a lot of the.

rule of three in my life. and. so the question is where do you see the. biggest opportunity for a creator like. me in today's world if you were a. creator instead of me where do you see. the biggest opportunity so creator like. you as raj. shamani or any creator raj chamani. i would say any creator but i'll be. selfish here. so so look i think uh for you the. uh for you the biggest.

opportunity is. uh perhaps what you are doing which is. uh. you know which is essentially. democratizing. uh you know knowledge sharing. uh. on various topics why are various media. vehicles so you are the new digital tv. okay. i think. one opportunity for you to be. for you to perhaps create raj could be. also to.

create many more rajas. so create a playbook to create many more. rajas in the nation. uh because typically. there is a lot of talent in this country. and how can you be how can how can you. how can you start becoming a platform i. think that's that could be an. interesting opportunity for you. uh because on one side you have. consumers of content and on the other. side you have creators. and let's say you want to scale so one. way to scale and you got the playbook.

right right what i have. read about you you you're getting the. playbook right you're getting you know. how to get the reach you know how to put. interesting content on instagram and. youtube etc so now. how do you scale this so can you besides. raj shamani as the. as the show can you also become a. platform given that you have a playbook. perhaps use technology to become a. platform because if you look at it from. a opportunity point of view you have. distribution via youtube instagram and.

maybe. you know hundreds of other sources. you have the playbook of how to produce. and on the other side there could be a. lot of talent supply right. so how do you how do you how do you get. how do you get that talent supply on. your platform. and your platform is hooked to these. multiple sources so i think that could. be a very. very interesting opportunity. uh and of course you. already perhaps. have been monetizing and there could be.

many monetization ways. which you could then extend to this. network that comes onto your platform of. hundreds and hundreds of times nice. i've never thought about it in this way. i always wanted to empower more people. to do what i am doing but i have a. thought of. building a platform like this where i. could help people with the kind of. playbook which i'm which i've made for. myself by testing and experiencing over. the years. and not i'm just saying not even. playbook in the sense when i say.

platform it's the platform like for. example right now. the platform comprises this conversation. between you and me there is a recording. going on there's a camera going on. there's a format. and then you will obviously edit this. and then you will package it and put. this. so there could be a lot of talent. in various categories. but they may not. typically uh know what this playbook is. uh i i'm not too sure if others are. doing this.

but i think it's a massive opportunity. absolutely and okay you kind of answered. my second question the second part of. the question as well but i'm still gonna. go up front and ask like based on our. conversation. whatever you know about me. uh what do you think i should improve. what i should do in order to go from x. to 10 x now. yeah so 10x i already told you right i. mean i think yeah what should i improve. like in a on a personal level that's. what i want to wanted to ask.

so that's something which i'll have to. raj reflect. a little more. but. you know if your question is how do i. become 100x. my. recommendation would be a platform. approach. and a tech driven platform which invites. millions of people. to become influencers on one hand and of. course it churns. and then it gets the best. and provides a platform to get them to. produce create content. and a one-stop shop for enabling these.

influencers to distribute their content. and one-stop shop for them to also. monetize from you. so i think that's the big idea. why you continue to do what you're doing. right but that's like the 100x. yeah. yeah no i get it i get what you're. trying to say and it makes. it it is a massive opportunity when you. think about it because it's just getting. started and we are that we're going to. replace i think that's what i feel every.

creator individually has the power to. replace the traditional media so. i think yeah i think the traditional. media is gone in my view so traditional. media is completely gone. and. there is a huge demand for good quality. content. and i and i think that's still very. underserved good quality content is. underserved. and. i think it can only happen if there are. more creators participating and you.

would be the platform for creators for. supplying a lot of content one you know. not just podcasts but multiple kinds of. content where the source blah blah blah. right so you could be that platform. since you know the you kind of you crack. the puzzle. now it's about scaling right. yeah. it is well the last part of the question. thank you so much for doing this but. last part is in 10 seconds the headline. of this entire conversation is.

how and when are we going to get to the. point where i get to compete and beat. you at the squash court. you know you can play with me on. saturday. okay next time in delhi i'm gonna hit. you on saturday i'm gonna make sure and. we're gonna having this match. thank you so much ashish thank you so. much for doing this i genuinely loved. the conversation i was really excited. to do this and. i got so many insights i'm sure.

everybody who would be listening to this. would also love to hear what you have is. there any ending point you want to share. it with users for everyone is there. anything you want to share yeah i just. want to say that just do it. just do it. here's. signing off with the figuring out with. our sheesh kasha thank you so much.