Building A PROFITABLE Business In India Ft. MakeMyTrip Founder Deep Kalra | Raj Shamani | FO 94

I believe the next two decades belong to. India and the beauty is on the internet. we're going to do it much faster than. China. Because we have building blocks. in place. You know, we have the best. payment infrastructure in the world and. we have 5G. Yeah. And you have a massive computer power. computing power in your hand. And then. you have the aspiration just connect the. dots we're just going to explode. So I. think it's India's really really time. now. I see a lot of youngsters going. overseas to study great. And people. would say parents. [music]. You can market your opportunity here. In.

today's episode we have Deep Kalra of. MakeMyTrip. He built a startup when. building startup was not cool. He built. and raised funds at the time when there. was no ecosystem in India. There was no. VC money flowing. And then he listed his. startup and became one of the first. startups to get listed in American. markets. Really important questions we. have answered on how to stand out from. the competition, how to build the right. team and how to build a company which. lasts forever. Please enjoy today's show.

because it's with the OG entrepreneur, the one who really shaped Indian startup. ecosystem, Deep Kalra. And and and if. you feel that this podcast is super long. then you can follow us on Raj Shamani. Clips where we actually cut down into. small snippets which are really helpful. and makes you smart and we cut down even. smaller videos and we turn them into. shots of 30 to 60 seconds on our shots. channel that is Raj Shamani Shots. These.

channels and these small clips will help. you become really smart and help you. stand out to become the leader that you. admire to become in future. Make sure. you enjoy today's show. [music]. Yeah, you know is. like this classical I I like to say we. are the elephant that can dance. Mhm. And hopefully like I believe the next. two decades belong to India. Yeah. Largely because of just. demographics and where we are right.

place, right time etc. And many founding. stones founding blocks are in place. But at that time also people expected us. to take off. That take off took longer. And it took longer for very basic simple. reasons. Not just trickle down theory. there's enough money coming in like you. know, you know more about. uh maybe C and D towns in India than I. do. Uh you know, I grew up largely in. Delhi and I went to Ahmedabad to study. Uh you grew up like you shared with me. in Indore very interesting but you went.

to much tinier places to promote your. product. So you know that and you can. feel it. That is now there is so much money there. and most importantly there's exposure. Yes. And hence there's aspiration. And you're. saying I want to do that. So today if. you see youngsters in any part of the. country they they dress no differently. from youngsters in Mumbai and youngsters. overseas. Yeah, yeah. And why not? They. have the money and they want to or or. spending on travel which is obviously. what we do or entertainment. It's all. the same. And we see our customers from.

time to I mean every time I travel I'm. just fascinated by who is traveling. And you know, how they speak, what they. do, what they want to do when they're in. Goa, what they want to do when they're. in Phuket and what they want to do. eventually when they're in London and. New York and all of that is happening or. in Ladakh or in this it's that's the. emergence of a country and that is what. we are doing. We are breaking into the. worldwide scheme worldwide scene with. $2,000 per capita income not $6,000. Mhm. And the beauty is on the internet.

we're going to do it much faster than. China because we have building blocks in. place. Yeah. we have the best payment infrastructure. in the world. And it's phenomenal how. easy it is to make payments today and we. have 5G. Yeah. And you have a massive computer power. computing power in your hand. And then. you have the aspiration just connect the. dots we're just going to explode. So I. think it's India's really really time. now. And that's what I think makes it. very exciting. sure and you know now one point is like. now people are ready to spend. Like.

there's this. It's I talked to like a lot of young. people right I was I keep quoting this. one research I read and I truly believe. in this and one of every podcast I talk. about I think it's become repetitive but. I'm going to share it right. Our parents. generation used to save 54% of their. income. Our generation saves only 17% of their. income. Interesting. So the difference is what they're. spending on their life right now. Yeah. Because a lot of young people. believe that there's a security.

You America went through that. You America went through it. And that's. 37 percentage points. So basically it's. more than 1/3 getting close to 40. That's a lot. Exactly. And very true yeah. I think and it's. changing also I think. Raj, what's changing is generation now. is 5 to 10 years. Mhm. Not 20 to 25 years. I see that shift. I. have a brother who's much younger than. me, 15 years younger than me and I see. he's actually.

closer to the kids than me in age you're. exactly the same difference but they're. closer the way they think. So the gap is. actually uh. and the thinking and the aspirations is. not like people are waiting like I see. youngsters in office first job. So for. me travel right? So that's the perfect. example. Our parents took a few holidays. I come. from a you know, classic middle class. background but my dad was in service. My. mom taught all her life. But they were. doing well and you know, made sure that.

while they didn't get the holidays. because they were both kids of. pre-independence India. But when we the they had kids they would. make sure they had a holiday. driving holiday going to Shimla going to. Kashmir. going to Nainital going to Mussoorie. and sometimes of course it was house. here and you know, all of that stuff or. cousins were over and we were happy. because that's all we knew. Right? And you see now when we. started earning and we had kids or even. before that we said of course one big.

holiday in summer. But one small holiday in winter is. possible and one or two weekend breaks. will happen. Yes. And I had a banking job it was. paying well. My wife was actually in. media and we were both fond of travel so. we said yeah all our money Travel money. But we were able to do it. I see a lot. of my friends maybe two three holidays. maybe four. Mhm. The generation now. youngsters who are earning I mean this. is the extreme example. We had a young. girl who joined us lady and I was doing. talking to her in immersion. And I said.

who takes more than one of my favorite. questions is who takes more than 10. breaks a year. Yeah. You kept her hand. up. So wow and many people had their. hand. I said okay 15. This girl was recently married and her. husband take 52 breaks a year. Every. weekend they get on to either a train or. a bus or a bike and go somewhere. If. it's a long weekend they Friday night. they leave. Monday morning they come. straight to office. That's an extreme. but the average is we are talking about. half a dozen breaks. The average person. is saying here long weekend let's go.

It's great for our business but it's. also changing India. Yeah. People are saying yeah you have to spend. A they've made up their mind they're not. going to buy a house. It's the renting. the same. Yes. My brother is from the same. generation 15 years younger he said I'm. not going to buy a house. And he's a. very successful lawyer own law firm he's. saying it's stupid and he keeps. convincing me how it's stupid. I come. from a different generation. Maybe a. car. Many many youngsters now are. learning growing up not learning to. drive which I think is a little crazy. it's a life skill.

a car self-driving cars. [laughter]. but Uber has Ola has you don't need a. car but I think but they're saying we. won't own [clears throat] a car. We'll. rent a car when we want to even go out. self-drive etc. We will spend all our. money. on experiences. going out, eating out, traveling, ordering in food fashion. Some of them. are actually going towards. Upgrading lifestyle that's it. Yeah and. also enjoying today to your point not. pushing off tomorrow it's in today and.

that is big changing time. US went. through that and I think China's gone. through that. In India it's happening. now so it's quite fascinating great for. our business. It is it is you know. you know there's a there's a question. which comes in my mind just curiosity. So whenever a country goes through. consumerism okay when there are so there. are multiple options for for people to. choose from right? Don't you believe like then. specification works?

Like super app generalization all of. these things don't work usually very. well when there are multiple options. because people want to like I'll give an. example. Yeah. So when I have multiple options I. don't want to go to one Justdial and. book my tickets on that, order food in. that, you know, do everything that. travel in that like I. I want to go to MakeMyTrip for booking. I want to go to Zomato to eat. I want to. go to you know, BookMyShow to book. tickets. So. Yeah. why is the why every company in. India now they're saying we're going to.

become super app we're going to build. super app? Yeah. Yeah, quite a few are. trying to. It sounds like a very cool. and sexy thing to do and sounds logical. Mhm. But the reality is very few companies. are actually cracked that. Some have so. it's very interesting to note in China. super apps have worked. Okay. Okay, so. whether it was in Alibaba or it was. other so if you saw like Tencent and all. Tencent does everything. Yeah. So I think it's to do with. controlling uh a lot of the traffic too. There's no Google there there's Baidu so.

Baidu try to do many other things too. People come there. Also I think. fundamentally it has to do with how well. you do things. So let's take Amazon in. the US right? They've left number two. far far far behind. They do a phenomenal job of selling. product. Yeah. Any kind. They started. off only selling books. They're the. largest book seller in the world right? That's that's a fact. Flipkart is the. second largest book seller in the world. apparently. Interesting. So then they said we can extend expand. this to other things. We can do fashion, we can do electronics, we can do this.

this. They've tried travel multiple. times. It hasn't worked. And Jeff has. famously said Jeff Bezos, I heard it. second hand from. someone here, his his India head Amit. Shared, we don't have adjacencies with. travel. Now, travel. is a state of mind. So, you don't say. listen, I'm going and buying this new. phone, which is pretty expensive, 20 30. 40,000 bucks. I'm buying it online. looking for a deal, but I do know I want. this phone and a cover with it, accessories with it. Then I see.

something else. I said, oh yeah, shocks, this will be damn useful, this speaker I. want on my office desk. So, I go and buy. that. I'm in the mood, I have the money, I buy it. You don't suddenly say there's a great. deal on this. three-night getaway to Phuket. It's a state of mind. Also, unlike. anything else where you have to make. space in your house or your closet for. it, here you have to make space on your. calendar for it. So, it's time. You have. to commit to time. So, when you're. thinking of travel, you're saying it. starts by saying we can get I'm talking. about leisure travel, not work travel.

So, let's say you're planning a trip to. say your main thing is your time here. So, people are either time rich or. they're money rich. So, very often they. have all the money and they become time. poor. So, that's the classic this thing. You have the like I'm sure you want to. get away a lot, but you're saying yeah, now I have all these commitments. I've. launched this, I've launched It's a. great feeling, but it's also. frustrating. And the happiest people are. the one who've got both. So, time be a. pass of you have to don't come. It's great. Right? So, that is your. thought process when you're traveling is.

fundamentally different from buying. anything else. To your super app thing, I think specialization is going to work. because the more you focus on doing one. thing, you do it well. So, actually. fundamentally people are saying I just. want the best experience. So, whether it's tomato or swiggy, they're giving great experience for. booking this thing. I think people are. saying that. If you're thinking movie. tickets, you got to book my show. Also, shifting channel is a tap, right?

Gone are the days where you are you're. not going physically anywhere. And. youngsters are so fast on their phone, it's they don't even think about it like. I'm shifting channel. You're just saying. I go here for this, I order food here, I. do. and you're done, right? Literally, you're like not even thinking I'm moving. and through, you know, universal logins. and sign-ins, you're already logged in. So, where is the there's no friction. left. So, why would you not go for the. best rather than going for just okay, settling for one. There's no There's no, you know, I don't even think people like.

you mentioned Justdial, that was again a. child internet kid of our era, right? And money is a friend at those times it. was a very different thought process. We. wanted to do everything. Exactly. Also, there were no others. So, today there's. a super app fight. I'm not also in favor. of it. I I mean I I if I was to bet, I think [snorts]. specialization will win. Work, right? Like I love this point where you said if. you want to become like if you want to. build a super app, you need to capture a.

state of mind and then just become. everything for that state of mind. versus trying to shift it You're hungry. Now, at that point of time, you're not. going around tooling to find some Yes, in that 15 minutes you're waiting, you might say if I'm online. But, also having said that, I think. quick commerce is overhyped. So, I think. now 10 minutes is the promise, 8 minutes. or something is happening. That's. bizarre. What are the things you need in. 8 or 10 minutes that you can't like I I. don't think it's sustainable because.

it'll never be viable. So, you can burn money and all that, but. it's not going to be and what do you. need that desperately besides a few. things? I I think that will have to settle down. to a level where it's still viable or. people will pay a premium for it. So, you know, I I I know Dunzo well and you. know, I know they started on Bangalore. and it was really popular and people. saying middle of the night they probably. need smoke, so they probably need food. Became popular through that. But, beyond a certain like is it going. to be 15 20 minutes or is going to be 10. minutes? I think 15 20 most things If.

you can wait for food, most of the. things you can wait for. Yeah, so we. won't get into what is urgent. Some. things maybe you can't wait for, [clears throat] but. this is a family show. [laughter]. Right. No, that's. It's crazy, you know, but don't you feel. talking on quick commerce, it's spoiling like few people. So, they'll get uh like I said that. uh someone who's like super busy. corporate job wants to get to work at.

9:00, starts, you know, the day at 7:30, wants to get up by the time he's. brushing, he or she needs a coffee. Like, you know, so now Zepto and all of. that they've started Zepto Cafe, right? They they're serving your coffee in 10. minutes. So, now because you don't have. house help or someone to help you with, you order that coffee and that's in. So, now that's spoiling, so you become like. a daily habit for you. Don't you think that these kind of use. cases will come in the picture and start. doing this? There will be and this is if. you look at just just shut your eyes and. you think about this typical scene and.

you see in an American kind of sitcom or. movie, guy wakes up groggy, alarm goes. on goes on goes on till he finally gets. out like a zombie is moving, makes his. coffee or she makes a coffee. They don't. wake up till that black coffee, which. fundamentally is anyway bad, right? Because we all know coffee is the worst. thing you want to put into your system. first thing in the First thing in the. morning, yeah. But, why has Starbucks. done so well around the world? Especially in places where people are. ready to pay three and five dollars for. a coffee because they're located in the. zone, right? You walk out of your home.

and towards office or towards your bus. stop, your metro station, you have it. So, maybe it might move there. Some. people want that in the morning, but why. won't you put on your own kettle and. make your coffee or even those nice. coffee makers? I mean, how long does. that take if you want coffee? But, food. I understand. So, now what's getting. [clears throat] very popular starting. with Bombay our studio apartments with. no kitchens. Right? Except like. literally a kettle and uh you know, whatever, maybe a microwave or whatever. and that's it. That's going to happen. for sure, consumerism and where people.

are moving. Also, because food is so. easy to order. Who's going to get into. the whole jamela? Except if you love. your It's a big fuss, right? But, let me. also tell you everything then you'll. also have a reaction saying this is not. healthy. Then health food will come in that you. can order. So, [clears throat] I I think. we will settle somewhere where people. will eventually say listen, I just want. convenience and I'll pay a price. So, to. to the point I was saying earlier, people will if you're ready to pay for a. 10 minute delivery, the company will. eventually have to charge. Yeah.

Because it's very expensive to have. Yeah, they they will. The money will run. out. And they they started charging already. like all these brands Look what happened. in COVID, [clears throat] right? We know. what we started paying on all food order. and all that and that's smart business. because people are saying listen, that. was the only thing that worked. You. know, one of my oldest colleagues and. who did a phenomenal job here moved to. Zomato then, Mohit Gupta, and they. turned around, went IPO, did all of this and they did. such a brilliant job where they said.

they seized the crisis of COVID. That was the only thing that worked to. get food at home because you couldn't go. out and eat. So, what about everyone? But, they worked. Similarly, you know, Amazon Flipkart did a great job because. they would they kept delivering. But, everything else was So, they seized the. opportunity and built a phenomenal brand. that time and suddenly people were. paying 50 rupees more, but that changed. their economics, which was which was. smart, I think. Now people are okay with. paying because they've gotten used to. it. People are tipping also. [clears throat]. They say the poor guy.

COVID. So, you would say default. and why not? So, if you can afford it, why not? Because that 20 or 50 rupees. doesn't matter to you, but does make a. difference on the other side. What's. your take on convenience because there's. always this is battle which goes on on. LinkedIn and Twitter specifically that. people in India don't pay for. convenience. Yeah, I think Like people are okay to. wait, people are okay to try 10. different websites, people are okay to. just So, I think it's over generalizing. India has just got shades and shades and.

shades of consumer. Okay. It's not like. there's one consumer who won't pay for. convenience or there's one consumer who. will. Mhm. As you've seen it yourself, there's always a premium brand or. there's always a premium customer who. puts more value to convenience and. therefore will pay for convenience. And. then there's a lot then there's shades. that comes down to the other end where. person is so time rich, will spend one. hours seeking the best deal. That happens. It's not only India, it.

actually happens everywhere. Yeah, in US. coupons they got it, especially retired. people physical coupons. There's a very famous movie made out of. it. I think Dallas Buyers Club or. something, really cool. People do all. this kind of stuff. And people are. really taking small small this thing. So, it depends how. to put it very crassly, how you value your time. To me, there is only one thing which is finite, one.

resource in the world. And I keep. telling my kids that and my colleagues. that, which is time. So, where you spend your time, you must. choose wisely because that's the only. thing is 24 hours for everyone. Yeah. And we don't know when your time's up. anyway, but without getting too morbid, think about it. So, if you value your. time, you will pay convenience. If you. don't value your time, I'll go So, there'll be all types of. consumers. You have to decide even as a company, you have to decide where you want to.

operate. As a brand, you have to decide. where you want to operate. You want to. operate where people value time and. therefore command a premium, then you. better give fantastic service. Yeah. Or you want to operate at the bottom end. where you're cheap cheap cheap. Walmart. built it on cheap, right? And the. physical Walmart. And it worked for. them, but then you better be the. cheapest. So, it depends where you want. to be. No, very interesting. So, what do. you feel like in now that this is. India's time, right? Where should people. the young Indians should look to build. businesses in? Which area? Like do you.

feel like we should look for. the customers who are. who are time rich or the customers who. don't have time? Well, it's a great. question and I'm always in favor of. you know, I think a durable company a. durable brand which lasts the test of. time will eventually win on experience. So, yes you can give incentives like. people give for first time trial. inducement induce trial, right? And. classic even in marketing that's what we. learn. Reward mechanism, yeah.

But after that if you keep on rewarding. people for coming back there's a. problem. Then you're using a crutch. which is called discounting which is the. worst. So, in in in our company that. word is really frowned upon. We do it. but as a last resort if product people. and youngsters are saying yeah we'll. discount we say no anyone can discount. Yeah, anyone can give that. That is like. dropping your pants why? But give. something which people. really value and they say oh wow. Let me. give you an example like. recently now it's been about a year we.

we introduced fair lock. It's a small and I don't want to promote. the company feature but it's a great. example of you know just taking the fear. away. I mean price is actually. but I got but Jackie. then I lose out so lock into this price. with a tiny premium insurance model but. done for fares. If the price goes up you. uh you don't lose anything you locked in. at let's say 5,000 rupees. Now the. pricing has gone to 6,7000. If the price. goes down you get that advantage. So, it's win-win but yes you have to pay a.

tiny premium. Indians love that because. they're saying yeah listen there's a. fear in our mind that prices will get. very expensive when it comes to travel. And it has happened in the past. Not so. many will happen because we are still. largely supply constrained like right. now post COVID people have gone crazy. traveling. In fact right now there's a. fear of COVID. I was on a flight. yesterday. I think less than 10% of people were. wearing masks airport and flight. People. now just don't care. They're sick.

they're tired they're done. They're done. they're like saying oh no and you're not. going to hospital like fundamentally, right? So, it's not life threatening. People are saying let's move on with. life kind of thing. So, I think we have. to realize again what customer wants. what you can do. and I would say always always build a. business business on great experience. but also there's this word which we. don't give enough value to which is. reliability. Can you rely on a brand? Can you trust a.

brand and so you know, we said trust. it's huge and that takes a long time to. lodge itself somewhere in the cerebellum. in the head it has to lodge itself okay. I am I trust. after that Indians are very loyal. actually. Once they trust a brand by and. large they will say I want to stay with. this brand, yeah. They took care of me when there was a. problem. That's huge. Now you don't. create the problem but if you're there. for someone there's a problem has. happened. I I've seen people say listen. yeah I don't want to mess around and all. so I mean.

but I trust this brand because I can. reach them and that takes a long time to. build and can be destroyed overnight. So, the moment you start taking your. customers for granted poof you're going. to beginning [snorts] of the end you're. going to slide down. So, build a brand build trust. be be reliable be the brand that people. and you see the longest the best brands. around. Why do people go back there even. if it's just fast food? Even if it's. just. you know, comfortable shoes. I'm not. even talking about high performance. shoes. People will start going to brands which.

they trust over time they're saying yeah. this work. Shoes are a big one, right? Because there's a lot to do with. comfort. I'm not even saying fashion. where fashion where is a very different. space. I don't think I understand that. well enough to even comment on it. But. things where you want trust that they. won't let you down. So, insurance is. right up there. medical then insurance and actually. travel is very much up there where. people want trust because there's a fear. in the common man not well traveled. May airport. or koi mil ko. are you to ticket valid.

that's a latent fear. My hotel. and reservation. and I'm not saying play on that way but. please give them the trust if I have. booked with your brand no way anything. can go wrong. Airline systems are very. sophisticated so very rarely will there. be an issue unless you have a refund. issue and all. But. you go to a small hotel you can get. bounced because small hotel systems. aren't sophisticated and they'll. overbook. Someone came in they. overbooked. So, there your systems or. your cloud with the as a company with.

the hotel has to be such where you say. you can't bounce my customer. I have. this agreement with you either you give. a better room category or we're putting. him or her up somewhere else and you're. going to pay that and then we're going. to pay more. Then the the customer will. say if that one in a whatever 100,000. chance it happens say okay they still. took care of me. And they paid me for. the hassle etc. etc. You have to build. that trust. Otherwise it's a fly by. night operation. So, I was just telling. like as a customer even though I am I.

like to believe that I'm like a much. evolved customer because I've traveled. fairly good, right? [clears throat] And I keep. traveling every every week I'm traveling. and still there's a fear. You know, you. hold that or it burns out and it's made. platform cannot do anything. Yeah, because it's supply driven we are an. intermediary. [clears throat] Exactly. It's not like and it's supply demand. The airline systems are very. sophisticated. The moment things are. sold because that's it's a perishable. commodity. So, the favorite question or. the most popular question I get from. friends and family is. even uncles and aunts the other day I'm.

meeting someone they're saying beta. I think the price is very because. but you get it. So, I always say that listen. [cough]. auntie ji kisi ne you need to put your. COVID time airline. put all over there. They were not only. like were people not flying. See they. didn't have to pay for fuel. But they. were paying lease rental and plane car. second biggest cost for an airline. variable cost is actually lease rental. They didn't give back their planes. otherwise when it started. So, no one.

cared similarly with hotels. So, I said. this is their time and of course it's. demand supply they're saying hotel. terrace are high. I said the same hotels. were dying. So, I feel for them because. we're in the middle so I see my. suppliers and I see my consumer and this. is demand supply. Hardcore demand supply. perishable commodity. [clears throat]. that's gone forever. Every time by the way I get on to a. flight people feel very happy. I feel a little bad because I know the. airlines and I know that so I check into. a hotel I always ask what's the.

occupancy. I just need to know how's it. been and all of that and you can tell. yeah. So, I mean right now Goa. probably I think end April. and early May. probably going to be the worst time to. go to Goa. Super hot. Rains haven't come. It's so hot and humid. it's still full. That just shows how. starved we are it's still full and the. shacks and all are shut because of the. weather. But people are still going. whatever is open and places are full and.

the flights are full you know, airlines. are putting the bigger planes on it and. rescheduling you and changing your. seats. Everything's full because or kind. of there's only one place. you go to the hills but there is only. one Goa in India and there's only one. place in India where you land and it's. in the vibe is in the air you say. it's sad we need many more but you can't. recreate culture. That is the Goa and culture although I. think we are ruining it and I hopefully. we'll get time. I feel very strongly.

about over tourism. Or or I am I country. okay and I'm a Goa and I've written. articles on this in the biggest of. newspapers. My heart bleeds when I see what we have. done to Manali. It used to be a pristine and beautiful. Now we are in in season time it has more. crowds traffic jam than Delhi and. Gurgaon. I'm telling you you couldn't go. for a walk. I went three summers ago for. my friend's 50th and I said never coming.

back in peak season. Right across the. river we have put those kind of. you know, ropes and [clears throat]. they're taking people for this not a zip. line but literally they take them in the. middle and they dip them in the water. and it's like that's happening. We've. ruined Manali we've ruined Shimla we've. ruined Nainital we've ruined Mussoorie. and we are responsible. There's no one. else we as travelers are responsible. because there's over tourism and the. laws are there but they're not enforced. that you can't make every house into a. hotel. That house was made for four or.

eight or 12 people to live and now you. made it a hotel and that's why we have. catastrophes yeah. That's why we have. fires and that's why buildings collapse. and that's why people die. But we are. this is systematically happening. So, you ask anyone who's been there they're. saying. I don't want to go there. They don't want to be why do you travel? You travel to get away but where do you. stay in a hotel? Home stay. home stay is a great solution. But you. still need to have some kind of norms. and we are trying which we call carrying.

capacity where beyond a certain number. of people at a point of time tourists. you don't allow people. I saw this in Kashmir I went to Kashmir. twice during COVID because it was open. safe beautiful. So, over New Year's we went to Gulmarg. and it was just amazing but I saw the. crowds and the snow and it was beautiful. but in summer we went to Pahalgam and I. could see people coming in car loads. driving up from wherever maybe from. Punjab which is lovely but coming. without reservations.

then where do you stay? People end up. staying in cars at night or they end up. just going and doing home stay and home. guest but not in places which were not. meant for commercial use. So, I think we. you know, local governments have to come. down to say that there's a touring. tourism capacity at a point of time and. it happens all over the world. Beaches shut down. So this famous beach. in. Philippines shut down. Boracay and all. they said no more tourists because we. would over tourism. Now we have to make.

sure we will ruin this place. I I fear we will ruin this. I've seen. Andamans, I've seen Ladakh. Ladakh you. go, it's the most stunning landscape in. the world. But lay down today in those. four or five months which is, you know, season four months. You don't want to. live there. There's a there's a. sanitation problem. So we are we are. doing it. and we're not realizing that listen, we. don't want to go there. There'll be a. time where. whoever has money. sadly will go overseas. Yeah. And will.

not travel in India. They'll say we're. going overseas. It's very sad because I. don't think there's any other country. which has. natural bounty. historical. riches. culture all of it so much. We have. everything. But there we have to take a very. different approach. So hopefully we will. reverse that trend of over tourism. So I. want to flip the question and make it a. little positive. Okay, as you as a. travel company as a traveler Sure. Okay, tell me I'm going to ask you a little. biased question and you can't you can't.

give me justification. You have to give. me an answer. Okay, tell me the favorite. tourist place in India. For me? For you. Havelock, Andamans. Havelock? Havelock. Island. There's a beach called. Radhanagar Beach number five. It is just. stunning. You can walk in half a. kilometer into the water into the water. Sand is just soft and you will be waist. to chest high depending on, you know, how tall you are. Half a km, 500 m in. It's rated as one of the top 10 beaches.

of the world. It is stunning. So I think. that's my favorite. This is Andaman. In Andamans. Andaman. So you Andaman may you have to. go to Port Blair also get through. [clears throat] Now reaching there is a. little tough. One ferry here actually. ferry here macros this thing but you. have to take the early morning flight at. 5:30 5:55 to reach. The better cup on. sugar but go there and spend a week or. five days Havelock Island and next to. Havelock is Neil Island. Beautiful still largely untouched. because it's tough to reach. Yeah. I've even been lucky enough to go.

to Lakshadweep on the other side. So the. Andaman water is Andaman Sea which is. the same water we crave for in Thailand. It's the same sea. Mhm. I'm also a diver. and a snorkeler so I love that part. So. for me I'm more water and. ocean. Lakshadweep is the same water as. [clears throat] Maldives. And I have. Maldives if you ask me favorite place on. the planet I think to sack and to chill. it's still Maldives. Okay. For me it's. paradise. But Lakshadweep is the same. water. Lakshadweep right now is not open. fully for tourism. It's changing. Once.

it opens and there is a big policy. government's working on I think those. two. And if I can squeeze in one more I would. say Ladakh over Kashmir even. I really think Ladakh is something. special. It's a lunar landscape. It's. surreal. Mhm. Like you can't believe. you're on an earth like you. and you know it became popular with. three idiots. Pangong Tso Lake is. actually that beautiful and pretty. Nubra Valley is surreal. It's a their. desert. So these are like the top places. for you right? For sure. Which is the.

best airline you've traveled in? You'll get me into trouble there. [laughter]. They're all they're all my partners so. that is a tough one. But to get spoiled yeah, if you get so I. never book first but on long haul I book. business. and if you have enough points or because. I'm in the business you get bumped up. So if you get bumped up to first class. I think the Emirates Suite Okay. is just. mind-blowing and now even Qatar is. mind-blowing. a Q Q seat is not that. It's Q seat is.

Qatar. Qatar, yeah. I don't think I've been bumped up there. but I've gotten Emirates and then you. can use that shower on the flight for a. few minutes only. It's crazy like you can't even believe. you're on a plane. It's just the. ultimate in luxury. But point to point I. have to say like in domestically. I always go again back to my trust. point. So I go on the airline I won't. take any name who's the most reliable. will get me from point A to point B on. time. Do you want to get your flight.

Yes, I always go for. emergency row seats because I'm tall so. I want extra legroom and I want an aisle. seat. And if I don't get that I'm. unhappy. But any aisle seat with extra. legroom I want that. I put on my I'm a. big. audio book buff. So I'm huge on Audible. and or I catch up with my shows. I. download some stuff. And I'm tripping on. father nowadays and last night I'm just. quite happy to watch my show and just. switch off if I'm alone. If I'm with. people then we just have fun.

Oh, interesting. And then which one is. the best hotel for you? [laughter]. So the best resort I've ever been to. and many people have asked me this is. probably the. It's a it's a trade-off between the Four. Seasons in. Landaa Giraavaru in Maldives. I'm. talking in India. That's it. In India. I'll come to that also. Uh.

It's a tough one. But. I think the. Taj that's been built on Andamans again. in Havelock. [clears throat]. is probably something special because of. what it is. But as a business hotel. I I think the Oberoi is like in Delhi I. don't need to stay there but it's like a. crazy crazy place. But I I think that the Oberoi is by and. large are something which is very. special for business travel. Yeah. They. just get it so.

You know I love I love Oberoi hotels but. I don't like staying there because it. feels like it's not young. Yeah. There. are no young people. You see all you. meet is like some [laughter] super. executives of some companies. So I don't have that problem maybe. [laughter]. But but I love some of the boutiques. here. So the boutique hotels that are. coming up are so amazing. People are. setting up like the ex. Oberoi president couple who is a friend. has set up this postcard hotels. Okay. Really cool boutique hotels really doing.

a very good job. There's one in Gir. So. we went to Gir. Gir Forest in Gujarat is. the only place you can see the Indian. lion. And we went there and this thing and. it's a lovely resort and so I think I'm. very happy to see these boutique hotels. Yeah and coming up in places where you. wouldn't go to normally. Mhm. See. otherwise you just go to the same places. again and again. Near Sariska out here there's a place. there's an Amanbagh. Stunning property. Just stunning. People just don't know. enough about it. It's it's stunning. So.

it depends or some of the fort uh the. you know which are created. So. why I said Oberoi so you go to. Udaivilas. It's a mind-blowing property. You will. feel very young there. Okay, I have like. I want to understand more your. perspective of customers based on your. experience, your data and everything. you've done, right? How are Indian. travelers different from American. travelers or any other travelers around. the world? I I think it's a process of. evolution. So I don't think and by the. way I don't know American travelers by. data. I know NRIs in the US.

Okay, let's talk about NRIs. That's how. we started. So NRIs in the US Raj I must. say are far more aware and I'm talking. about the typical yeah most of them are. pretty savvy tech. There's not UK NRI is. very different. US NRIs typically either. went, you know, engineering days 60s 70s. back then. or they went in the tech boom and all. here. So they're very sophisticated. online even way back in 2000 they were. happy to book online. They knew their. rights as a consumer. They knew that. there is something if we went and.

applied for Better Business Bureau they. said I got to go to Sky if I got a. coupon go on my credit card I'll get my. money back. Indian consumer still not that going. back to the fear point, right? So not. maybe that aware is the average. consumer online. Offline maybe you know. I don't know that well. I know the. consumers really online. But I think it's evolution. I think. we're also changing going back to the. earlier point of exposure. Indians are. definitely getting aware of their. rights. They want to get everything. So it's not.

now they're saying yeah. the darker. So there's an age divide. My theory is most people who are above. the age of. 45 50 today are technophobes. I won't take names. I was shocked one of. my friend I was on this flight and I. download shows. and this friend of mine said how do you. do that? My son does it for me. I said you. kidding me. It's like this is how you do. it. Boom boom boom you're done and you. download. Takes very long. I said on. Wi-Fi it takes like literally, you know,

like a minute and while you're doing one. the next is this thing. A friend of mine one of my closest. friends wasn't aware. So there's a. technophobe phobia. Yeah. 45 50. I got. up to say seek you but youngsters on the. other hand you see anyone less than 40. I think they don't even think it's. second nature. Exactly. And you look at under 30 which is where. you who are. I mean people are more comfortable I. think online than offline. than offline. Let's see. You want. something? No, I'm good. Yeah. People.

are more comfortable online. It's a. second nature. It's click click click. It's on the apps. In fact they're so. fast. I see youngsters I don't think I'm. that fast like in flicking and that. tricks on the phone which probably I. don't know which I should know and. they'll start laughing. Oh my god you're. actually going through this. Why don't. you just do this and then. Okay, point noted. [laughter]. So I think we're getting more and more. used to our rights. I think. some parts there is an awkwardness where.

what I what maybe I see that happening. I see there's. awkwardness and there's maybe even if I. can say a lack of politeness in the. dealing. So I think there's a bit of what I don't. like. It's a qualitative thing. There's. a bit of swagger which comes in with a. bit of money, new money, and then. people tend to be rude. Like I find that. on like I see that on planes. It really. bothers me because this young air. hostess got trained. She's trying to do. her best, but people are yelling at me.

I'm not talking about the infamous. videos and all which are terrible where. people didn't get a sandwich. That's. like disgusting. But even otherwise, how. they deal with it. So, the average. Indian is very respectful, I must say. But there is enough people on the. you know just learning to argue with. you. [snorts]. You know, which I think is. [clears throat]. maybe part of just. more and more exposure and explaining. actually almost like how it works. It's. also it's it also has to do a lot with.

correct me if I'm wrong, right? New money and influence. Yeah, I think. so. I think you put it in a better way. Yeah, also people tend to be I think we. tend to be loud as Indians. So, there. was a famous book which was written, The. Argumentative Indian, which is a. brilliant book, but we are also very. loud. So, when we go out to places also. and all, we end up being really. loud. It's almost like I get I do get. embarrassed sometimes you know when. you're international this thing. Everyone else is quiet. I think it's. Indians, maybe Italians, and a few other. people who are loud, but that's what.

they call it. We are like that only. Yeah. So, that's what we are. Over time. that will also happen or maybe that's. our distinctive feature. It's also. north-south, east-west divide. So, while I'm a proud Punjabi, but we. are the loudest, which is quite sad. But. most of the rest of the country are very. like actually calm. South you'll see. typically. especially if you see I think. you know Tamil Nadu for sure. Uh even. Kannadigas and all they won't flash. their money. Mhm. They have a lot of.

money, but it's understated, which is a. great. Similarly, with even Bengalis, they're big travelers. Gujaratis, big. travelers. The biggest travelers are. Gujaratis and Bengalis and Indians. Won't flash their money. Uh North Indians tend to be a little. loud and aggressive, so They love some. learning to do. Yeah, they they love. doing that. My God, my LV bag you need. to put it up there. [laughter]. Sharks, right? And big board like. all over the place, yeah. I doubt you. got to have a right. I have a right. Do you do you did you.

ever went through that phase where you. were like, "I want to show off my. wealth?". I must be saying never ever ever. Never? Never there was a phase where you would. walk in like with a big Gucci belt you. were like some brand belt. God, you should ask anyone. I don't. never ever. I'm embarrassed of certain. things that I get really I don't have. that kind of stuff. Honestly, I don't. I've never been like I take great pride. in so by the way every day I come to. office I wear a MMT shirt set. It's.

simple, no? So, what's your what's your. craving for status? There is there is some level of thing. where. and I don't believe that people don't. chase status. Status for everybody is different. For. some people it's philanthropic, some. people is impact, some people is money, some people is materialistic things. It's definitely not materialistic. It's. embarrassing. Not at all. Not at all. I. mean I I think that I. uh. What do you love to flex? Let's just. talk about that. I wish I could say my muscles, but. that's also [laughter] not true. My son.

makes fun, but I have to get fitter. No, you are very fit. You look very. so I've not even flexed, but I. definitely I'm in the phase. So, at 50 I. decided 53 I decided I want to go uh. non-executive. Okay. And there were. one big reason and one big. factor that I could do it and even think. of that. I didn't do it at 50. Uh the reason was. time is running out. I want to do many. other things in life and most of it was. not another venture, but most of it.

around. you know, call it give back or whatever, you know, and have enough time for. family also, self also, mentoring. youngsters, blah blah blah, all good. stuff because I did feel it's a logical. time to do that. But the only reason I. could even have this wild dream was I. had Rajesh as a co-founder Mhm. who I. think is a much better CEO than I am and. far more like. you know, I'm also detail oriented. I'm. actually obsessive about finer points on. design and product. But like I said, maybe I get bored too easily and he.

doesn't, so I could even dream like. that. Mhm. And I had shared it with him and he. says, "What nonsense and all? No, no, no. But yeah, chill right. You are. full-time executive chairman. I'm CEO. We're going to do this." I shared with. the board. They said, "Nothing doing. Nothing doing." And such bad timing. COVID happened. So, COVID happened and. then 2 years we were just flat out as a. company like literally. There was no. question. Come on. I brought back that. argument. So, exactly 1 year ago, April. 1 of 2022 I I've agreed the deal is. non-exec. But if I'm in town, I'm in.

couple of times. So, I think I end up. doing 40-50% of my time with MMT. So, quickly explain like what is executive. and non-executive for everybody is. watching. Yeah, so executive is. basically you have a a clear charge and. a duty and this is what you're doing. every day. Uh non-executive is you are. chairman of the board, but you are not coming in every day or. things like that. So, it's partial. because there are few things I'm very. involved in still. So, I love being. involved with product and design. Uh our foundation, MMT foundation,

that's totally something very. [clears throat] close to my heart. I can. say my baby. A few of us are involved. that I'm very very close to. I guess. strategy and anything like that I'm. still very involved with. Uh but my span. of control now is like technically is. zero, which is great. So, I love that. and. uh it's giving me allowing me to do. various things. Like I said, on the. serious side a lot of. mentoring, a lot of not-for-profit stuff. is happening, which is great. Various. causes close to my heart. One or two I'm. baking. But on the fun side, I call it.

guilt-free travel. So, this year I. traveled. close to half the year. Oh, sorry. Yeah, we just traveled like crazy to celebrate. like all kinds of things. Also, our. daughter was graduating. South America, big trip. That's why I was mentioning. Colombia. But all corners of the world, Tasmania, Lapland, Arctic Circle. Wow. So, yeah, we're crazy travelers and. uh so just to make sure, you know, my. wife's always saying you never have time. for me. I said, "Okay, I'm done.".

So, but we are always ready to go. somewhere else. So, it's it's fun and. we've done family travel, friends. travel, just two of us and all. So, literally solo I haven't done much. That's something I want to do. I mean I. would do it around work, but it's. something I'm thinking of doing too. Oh, solo you're interested? Yeah, I'd like to I mean I'll just try. it out like to see you know, I'm very happy with myself. Actually, I. want to even do Vipassana, I think. I. want to do that. Like I'm curious. You. want to do 10 days, 11 days? Yeah, there's I think there's 8 and 10. So, one one life uh You want to try.

everything? Questions to go there, yeah. All of this. stuff. Okay, so I have last three. questions for you, okay, which was. supposed to be covered in the beginning. of the conversation, but okay. That's. cool. Okay, first is about the. uh one fear like you know, I was just. giving an example of how Indian. travelers are different. So, I want your advice on everybody who's. trying to build something. in the travel space. And if they want to. scale and want to build it big, what. should they keep in mind? Okay. Only.

Only in from your experience in the. travel on the startup world, right? So, I'll give in my example which I. really feel is important for every. company. Okay. And I'm just purely saying from. the customer's point of view and I feel. companies who do it right really have my. heart at least. It's like at any given point I feel. connected. So, for example, the other day I was. telling you about so I booked a flight. and I didn't realize that my phone was. on airplane mode and I just booked it on. Wi-Fi, right? I didn't receive any.

message. And I panicked. Yeah, of course. I'm used to getting the message. I'm. messaging. And you know, iPhone where your mail. gets time to load. I'm reloading my. mail. My mail's not come. I was like. flight tickets near you. Money to cut. gay. What will happen? Like you know, I. just. And it's it's crazy. You could have. handled that better. You know, I would. have I don't I was on airplane mode. So, I feel and then the moment I opened.

airplane mode, obviously I got my. number. I got the message. I got. everything. I got a WhatsApp message. Now you guys have started doing that. So, I feel at any given point from point. A till the time I'm traveling or if I'm. ordered something online. if I feel that. I don't know if you could join me there. or company got half an hour late or that. year. So, I as a customer panic. That's. a great point. I I never thought of. that. I post sales, yeah, hand holding. is very important. I also think it's an. opportunity. So, to answer your question.

first generically and then for travel. So, generically and that's what I tell. all the youngsters who I give whatever. advice I can. Very often I tell them. what not to do. Well, I find a lot of. enthusiastic people just going down a. path not thinking through some of the. very big things. Like the very very big. thing is. whatever your idea. Firstly, I always. tell people don't come to me saying I. want to be an entrepreneur. Your idea. about that. Like it has to be it's like a baby. Yeah. It has to be yours. You have to be. passionate about it so much that you. can't sleep at night. You have to.

literally note your idea and literally. you get up. That's passion, right? You. know what I mean. You have to have. passion. You know what I mean. You can't. do anything. You have to have passion. You know what I mean. So, you know what. I mean. You have to have passion to. chase it. That is yours. It can't be a. borrowed someone's idea. Otherwise, you'll say like what's the point, right? So, firstly that. Secondly, you have to. be honest to God. Ask yourself and the. people around you. what problem am I solving? It's obvious. Like is it a real customer pain point or. am I like Apple-esque where I can create. desire? Which is all what Apple used to.

be like, "Wow, man. I didn't even it's. not like I have a pain point." Yeah, but. you're creating desire, which is also. great. Brands can do that. But third and most importantly is can I. do it better than anyone else in the. world? Not in India today. Gone are the. days unless you're a restaurant. So if. you're a restaurant or something, fine. Or you're a shop. We're talking about. online businesses. Today the world is. your There are no boundaries left. Why. should you be best in India? Today let. me tell you two of the companies I. respect in travel. are both non-Indian. And they are We are.

competing with both. So there's. booking.com who are phenomenal and I'm. We are competing with them in India. We're beating them, but I want to be. able to take them on anywhere. It's not. easy. And similarly there's Airbnb which. is a fantastic company. We are also in. homestays in this thing. They are. fantastic. I respect them. I know the. founders. And we're competing with them. So you. have to respect what's good, but you. have to be world-class. Otherwise. someone will come tomorrow if it's a big. enough space. Otherwise you're saying that I'm doing. the little thing. I didn't say the. obvious, right? Big market, etc. etc. But it has to match your aspirations.

For some people, right? They're very. happy saying. I want to build an app for. keto dieters in India. I'm just making. it up as we speak. But I'm crazy about. keto because this thing or or dieters in. India and Indian foods. And then I will. customize it for your body type. You. will put your feedback and I will send. you the food. It's a business. Will it. ever be humongous? No. Will it be. profitable? Yes. Will it make you happy? Perhaps. Who knows? So that way you can. pick your market. But if you're going to.

go in and say quick commerce. because I think it's the next this. thing. You got to take on not only the. Indian big boys, the foreign big boys. Everyone's here and everyone's going to. roll in tons of money. Aap ke chops. hain. Maybe you figured out something. that you're smarter. Maybe you're so. analytical that you understand B town, C. town. And you're saying Tum A mein I'm. taking your example. Tum A town mein. jeet jaoge, metro mein jeet jaoge. BC to. mein aata hi nahi. BC mein mein dikhaunga ke kaise yeh. karte hain. Power to you. I don't know. how you'll do it. I mean I haven't. thought of that problem. So I think you.

have to have very honest-to-god. conversations with yourself and your. genuine friends who are critical, who. know your skills. And also to tell you. don't get carried away, boss. You're not. What are your skills here? So I think people don't think about that. enough. And thoda [clears throat] leap. of faith to in the end hoga. Yeh nahi ke. it will be a bed of roses. If it is then. everyone would do it. I mean you know we. all know it's tough. The toughest thing. is to build a business from zero. So. zero to one is the toughest. One to 10 and you've seen it. One to 10.

is still tough, but it gets easier and. then 10 to 100 is the easiest, but not. everyone has the scale-up skills. So. what I learned through my journey is. horses for courses. There are people who. are phenomenal startup people in your. team. And even as entrepreneurs or. intrapreneurs, give them any ball, they'll catch it and run with it. They. don't say yeh mera kaam nahi hai, yeh. woh and all. Jugaad. They are But they are very very into. There's a lot of hard work, passion. But scale-up they're very different. people. And who are very good at scale because.

they can do the same thing better, make. it better, the process. And then hyper. scale is super uh specialization. They're different. So you need different. folks at different times. Not everyone. can be in all part of it. I think so. That's that's good. That's actually. a good way to put it out. You need. different people for different time. because you usually. tend to get over attached to one. situation. We do. If If you're not that. A you're not then you are wired.

like maybe Steve Jobs was, right? So he. was only passionate about his product. And he would tell people you're either. uh you know, everything brilliant or. everything stupid kind of thing. Like. literally. It was binary and that's why. he was a genius. He also had right brain. and left brain where he could, you know, do get the aesthetics because of his. calligraphy course and yet get the. functionality and just But very few. people are Steve Jobs. So for most. people, I mean I'm definitely um you. know, more. I think there's a people side of it. I.

get very attached. And I tell again. youngsters and I tell managers as you go. higher and you want to succeed in this. company anywhere else, EQ will become. more important than IQ. IQ is a given. You got into this company or you set up. aapne achha you know, IQ hai. Ab uske. baad EQ bahut important hai. And if you. don't Otherwise ya people don't want to. work with you. End of the day what all. are you going to do? So you get. passionate, you get this thing. So I. think you don't have to dump people. I think you have to. uh.

Give them the right roles. Exactly. Make. sure the startup person is always. working on interesting new ideas. Otherwise he or she is going to get. bored. And the scale people are getting. what they are good at. And that is your. job as a founder or a CEO. That is your. job. Your job is actually it's a very. simple thing after the idea and created. on the people side, it is to get the. best out of people, which means is to. motivate them, which is basically how do. you ensure that they're happy coming in. Create the environment where people. genuinely can come up and talk to you.

and disagree with you nicely, respectfully and say it's wrong in a. meeting in a board meeting. You might go. red in the face where someone will tell. you that what you're saying what you. think is the next big idea is a pretty. dumb idea. And it's happened to me. First time it's very embarrassing. Then. you realize that. that guy or that gal is actually your. best friend because they're keeping you. honest. The people who have the guts or. the gumption to disagree with you in. public and back it up with logic are the. people you have to surround yourself.

with. If you surround yourself with. yes-men. then also then your idea is going to is. as good better to hua hi nahi, refine to. hua hi nahi. So I think that is. something which all young entrepreneurs. must learn. Have people who I I say. basically the person who's a pain in the. ass is actually your best friend. [laughter]. It's true. It is It's true because they. have the guts to disagree. True. You. know, like I So in. I keep writing like the kind of theories. which we need in order to succeed in our. organization, right? So I believe that.

there are people who thrive in systems. and there are people who thrive in. chaos. Right? So you for chaotic people. you don't you don't put them in system. For systematic people you don't put them. in chaos. So the moment your organization is. becoming bigger and now you feel that. you need to systematize everything, you. need to systematize new chaos for the. people who are like super chaotic and. they thrive out of it. See this is why I. said the maturity you guys some of you. have at this age. It took me. 15 more years than you to realize this.

It took me 10 years of MMT or at least. seven, eight years of MMT, MakeMyTrip, my own company to realize exactly what. you said. Horses for courses and play people to. their strength. Go Earlier on I was this crazy. hyper-stressed guy and I would keep. trying to work on people's. negative points and make them perfect. And then one guy made me realize. actually a co-founder of mine, just the. most brilliant out-of-the-box thinker. okay, you're in the early days. He didn't tell me, but he made me. realize that listen.

what you're good at just excel at that. And you don't have to the rest unko kaam. hi mat do. Don't bog them down because you have. creative geniuses is very hard around. you. And who are passionate about the. brand as much as you, but to have uh you. know, people who are system guys you. might get many many more. So that X. factor. is so special that if you find people. with the X factor, you should just hold. on to them. So So I can tell you. the stupidest thing or the naive the. most naive thing I did.

was to start it alone. So I said we kar lenge, kaunsi badi baat. hai. And I was very and still. So I. said, you know, big deal here. Alone ho jayega. I was lucky enough to come across some. amazing guys. And if I was smart I was. just smart enough to hold on to them. because they had A the same passion I. did for the brand. I just happened and. they, you know, come all the great. values. And then in the downturn made sure that. they get come co-founders in the right. way like where they own stock, where. they own this thing. And otherwise we.

would be nothing. So at least I know my. limitations too. I know what I'm good. at. And I'm acutely aware what I'm bad at. also. And it's very important that. self-realization and yeah. Otherwise you're delusional if you think. you can do everything. So then I was. naive. I wasn't delusional. Fair. Okay. Last question. I have that is on the profitability. Okay. Because So we had a podcast. recently and they said it's going viral. on LinkedIn for us. It's that MakeMyTrip.

never saw a quarter of profit ever. Last. six quarters is cash profits. Last six. quarters what? In a row. And the peak. was. 23. million, which is 200 crore plus. Oh, sweet. We've been public. We are out. there. How would we survive? Otherwise. like sure, we have half a billion in. reserves. Last six Obviously in COVID we. went through terrible losses. Post IPO we've seen profitability. See, you have to understand our business. If. you're just in air ticketing, you can be.

profitable easily. Then you start investing in others. So. accommodations is a far tougher market. to crack. Holidays you're investment. mode. We are always bus market. initially, RedBus and all we are. investing. Now all those business are. getting mature. Otherwise we could sit. tight and just be in this, but we want. to be the one place where people will do. everything travel and trust us, you. know, just like everything travel because we. are their travel friend, travel. companion. I think we have that trust. We have more. than 60 million customers who work with. us. And we see people coming back just.

for blind trust of the brand and we. don't want to let that down. Tell me one. last question. When you started. you were you had the first mover's. advantage in the country, right? One of. the early mover's advantage in the early. mover's advantage in the country, right? Now it's very difficult to find your. blue ocean. Because almost there's. something for. like there's somebody for something. Like it's always there. It's like super. competitive. You're right. It's much It was in a way. much easier, in a way much tougher, right? You had to The tougher part was.

people weren't ready to buy online. Yeah, absolutely. It was very. frustrating. Now they're ready to. So. now. the obvious things are done. Mhm. But. now it's hyper specialization or true. innovation out. Like listen, where did. ChatGPT come from, right? We're all. tooling around with AI. This has come and taken it to another. level. Stuff like that will still happen. Now. that is you have to be, you know, super. super super bright to do that. But on. the other hand. I I also think like we didn't know the.

definition of lot of We've spoken about. quick commerce today. Didn't exist. Look. at what you do. Businesses on social. media, influencers hardly existed. Look. at the scale. I was actually shocked. when I was reading up. So there's so. much good stuff happening now. But it. may not happen. So it You have to now. I think think harder. about your business idea, what problem. it's solving. But what you don't have to. worry too much about is are there cus-. customers. Customers are ready. Mhm. They It's a fertile ground. They're.

already buying online. They trust. online. So what will happen? But to. stand out is difficult, no, now? Now Now. that's the. So tell me if there's new framework. I. have two frameworks. It's. either you come out of what you said, true innovation Mhm. so that people buy. Like you You just stand out because of. the innovation. Or you build true trust. That people. trust your brand and build such a. community around you that no matter what. other people are doing, they still are. going to love you. So they give you some. time ki theek hai tum thoda late. innovation karo but kar loge.

You know, that they trust you enough. No, that's a good point. And there are. brands who are trying to I think. straddle both, which is not easy. So you. can say that space is taken. Mhm. Right? You can say. But. because of. today rich content and rich media that. you can stream through and we talk about. 5G and which is a reality. many more things are today possible. which you could not even dream of. Mhm. Right? So [clears throat] I think just. the possibilities AI is now a reality. Ab APIs leke jo banana hai bana lo. You.

can now go back to building a Puritan. company with. 10 programmers. Yeah. You couldn't do that in the middle. So I. think a lot of new things are also. definitely available. One just needs I. think. a lot more time to figure and to think. about that and what you want to stand. for. So like I said, some things are. much tougher now. Agree. Because there's. so many companies around. But that's the. same thing what would have happened in. the offline world also when. you know, so many cars were out there. True. the guy says, "Mhm, new car, kaun.

si karu?" But then along comes a Tesla. Tesla, yeah. And he changed the whole. game. Or prior to that, even hybrids. when Toyota Prius came out and all, so. they were among the first who were doing. that. So you got to think harder, but. consumers there today to try it out. That's the best thing. thing. So good and bad, but these are I. mean exciting times. Uh definitely. India's to win. And I I think we're. going to now create you know, just an. ecosystem which will be unparalleled, unmatched. So I think it's a matter of.

time and everyone So I see a lot of. youngsters going overseas to study, great. And people would say parents. wapas ne aayenge. I said sab wapas. aayenge kyuki market ya opportunity ya. hai. So why would they not want to come. back? And you know, that's what will. make India great. You can't force people. to come back. It'll come because it's. organic. Actually you can't force people. to do anything. Over time is just It has. to happen organically. And we have the. best brains in the world. Now we'll have. the best market in the world. And. everything else will improve. Very. positive about optimistic. Now India is becoming a pull brand.

Absolutely. Sab yahan aana chahte hain. Sab idhar aana chahte Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It is. They we're attracting a lot of Uh it is. people, talent, funds Yeah, capital was. always there, but now people want to. come. And it's going to happen. 100%. Thank you so much for spending so many. minutes with us. That's what I want to. say. No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I loved how we got candid in the middle. about travel and then we got super. serious about how the true innovation is. going to drive certain things. And your.

take on. what's going to happen with overtourism. and how we can fix all of these things. I love it. Very passionate about the. sustainability bit. If you don't take. care of it, then you know, we won't have. any place to go to and travel to. But I. enjoyed our conversation. Time flew by, which is a good sign. Yes. Oh, no, no. ADD signs in the Don't Don't know where. it went. [laughter]. Thanks a lot, man. Thank you so much. See you. Thank you so much for watching. this episode till the end. I would really appreciate if in the. comments you can tell me what to.

improve, what not to do more, what to do. more, and how can I can make this thing, this podcast, this mission of ours way. better to serve you and add value in. your life. Please let us know in the. comments because we want to grow and we. want to grow by adding value in your. lives. And in the end, I say the same. thing. Like, subscribe, share, comment, and share it with at least one person. Jisko ek idea aa jaye. And with that.

idea, he or she can actually change the. world and might start something really. profitable, really big, and something really. successful. Because one conversation. can give you so many ideas that can. change your life. Thank you so much. Until the next. episode, keep figuring out. [music]. [music].