Billionaire Deepak Garg On GROWTH Strategies, Profitable Business & Scalability | FO 53 Raj Shamani

we can't get rich by selling stuff to. each other how many usa. investors need us. in today's episode we've tried to answer. the questions which are really important. for indian ecosystem. why india doesn't really have customers. and companies like uber and netflix and. why these companies are also struggling. in india what are the areas india need. to focus on in order to grow its economy.

what's stopping india from becoming rich. what opportunities should india look at. in order to grow for the next 10 years. and really become the world superpower. what are indian vcs and entrepreneurs. getting wrong. we've answered these questions with the. help of deeper gurk who is the. co-founder of revigo one of the very. unique. unicorns in india because they became. unicorn in an industry which is so. traditional yet they try to modernize it. the trucking business well before you.

move on to this episode please please. please subscribe this channel right now. because the more you subscribe it's. gonna help us grow and we'll keep. bringing you the best of the best. knowledges from the world make sure you. watch this episode till the end. i was reading about all of this okay. that everybody starts with a purpose to. let's say democratize certain things. right and they want to use their tech or.

the they want to build tech for good. yeah right but eventually what happens. is because. they democratize or maybe they build. certain system that that that turns into. tech for power. check for consolidation yeah that. they're democratizing let's say they are. enabling power to drive us to become. independent start making their way. start making their earnings through. through their own timings the way they. want to deal with people the way they. want to drive cars where they want to.

drive or ski where they start but. because there's so many people get along. to it one platform controls it so it. becomes tech for consolidation and. forever a consolidated platform. that they control it but it's. it's like. it's like a nature of law. as. why does that happen because at the end.

of the day. as humans. few humans are controlling. that whether it's a board or a. or a entrepreneur or a founder you know. set of founders are. controlling where the well with this go. where will this go right in web 2. even if you start with the right intent. which is tech for good and you want with. the purpose. consolidation. okay because you are raising capital. and you have shareholders.

and you may make any kind of you will. serve the interest of yes you will be. forced to serve the interest of the. uh shareholders right. uh. you may do it less so. than others. but that doesn't make it any good. right direction. web3. you don't have a set of individuals or. set of kind of f3 is distributed. in it in the way it is it's.

[Music]. that are coming in what are the projects. that are coming in web3 it's all getting. decentralized. now given the fact. that even before web 2 we did not think. that. you know.

it's still very early. stages right so it's very difficult for. us to imagine. but yes. i mean you can live without a central. bank at some point in time right i mean. it can work. if you can live without a central bank. at some point in time which is a big. kind of. authority which is. which. has created a lot of i mean central bank. name other cycles.

right because if you know you know. vasi i think that same philosophy. probably or the same concept can be. replicated to all the. other startups. but here's a here's a problem there are. two problems with this which i feel you. tell me. so if you. give everyone a power to do what they. want to do and they're not binded with. one vision of one direction a lot of. people won't be able to even do. as good as they're doing right now.

because they'll be directionless. because there's a central body or let's. say a founder the founder has a. direction founder has a vision and there. are thousands of people who come. together. to. actually make that vision happen. youtube and right so because. let's say. for example i'll tell you. amazon taught people how to sell online. and do stuff right. youtube taught people that format like.

this is possible you can do what you. love and make money so if they won't be. there who will teach people or who will. make sure that. everybody who has the power they all are. individuals how do they move to a. certain direction to improve their life. it's a problem. centralization benefits. speed of decision making and resource. allocation. yeah of course you can because. centralized so you can actually speed up. decision making is faster and resource. allocation is faster there is one jeff.

bezos who can actually and if he is. very powerful motivated charismatic you. know leader he can create a lot of. impact. but. whereas decentralization might take time. because you need to have. uh. you know consensus rules. you need to have boundaries all of that. thing i think that's where it is taking. a little bit more it may take a little. bit more time but when it is there it's. and it's a movement it will happen. uh you will have consensus mechanisms.

you will have consensus. procedures processes. and. you will each of the participant will be. anyway incentivized to do their own. thing. right so. now the speed of that will depend on the. speed of the technologies that come. about how fast can you build these. consensus mechanism right. could web 3 have been done without web 2. no. right so there has it's a natural. progression. web 2.

you can't have f3 without f2 you can't. have. first you need to see what uh central. bank stands for and then you can say. okay there can be decentralization of. money. uh similar to you know every other kind. of problem right so here's i was i was. listening to one podcast i don't. remember which one. and it said. what. what democracies and government did to. kingdoms. the same thing. like the web 3 is going to do to web 2. people are.

bullish about web 3 in that sense i am. too. although we don't know we are still kind. of because we believe we need a we. deserve a better world right i mean we. all and that's another that's a hope. that's a natural human hope right i mean. there are problems today we believe f3. will solve those problems it's possible. f3 will not and we'll we'll wait for. another web 4 and that's a continuous i. think journey and evolution that's. gonna happen right okay tell me one. thing this so in this same podcast i. i.

heard this. that. democracies if you look at any large. democracy. they serve the interest of masses not. the interest which is good for the. nation. and when you look at auto crises or when. you look at autocratic governments right. they are faster in bringing the. revolution they are better and more. efficient and they are the ones who are. serving the interest of the nation not. the interests of the masses so do you. think essay just asking peace you love. talking about economic nation democracy.

and not just masses right democracy is. two problems democracy actually leads to. crony capitalism right so. what does it lead to crony capitalism. that is i mean you have few people who. will make inordinate returns and money. yeah and they'll typically be friends. with the. politicians the top guys they will fund. the elections. these top guys will continue to win i. think that's the nature of democracy in. every. every country so they will make sure so. and then uh they will interest the.

interest of the masses which will give. the freebies and goodies and all of that. so what it leads to democracy is leading. to today. is actually a reasonably high level of. inequality. because of crony capitalism at one end. and serving the interest of the masses. at one end right i mean up. or so.

it's happening in every democracy right. it's happening in the u.s. every other demand. so i think that's a problem right how do. you. uh. what's a better future right. can technology come. you know to rescue can you have a better. answer can you. have conscious capitalism. you know. so i think technology will. slowly kind of create its own impact and.

hopefully uh things like web 3 and this. whole democratization will solve these. problems.

stimulus. central bank monetary stimulus. because it will cause a lot of inflation. so central bank is not the answer. there has to be a better answer where. his or her skills in the in up can be. exchanged with someone else.

right. you know that's a. money other other money problem now. other money problem now so this person. can use it his or her skills right or. naive. [Music].

[Music]. i was having this conversation with one. of my friends he studies in colombia. and he said. american dream is still alive so. socioeconomic status change in america. for one generation it's very easy. because there are a number of. opportunities and things like that in. india it's very difficult like someone.

who is born. and brought up in let's say remotely. backward socioeconomic status or he. doesn't have enough capital to fund. his or her family needs it's very. difficult for that guy to make it big. and make it to an indian dream. right but america may what easily. possible. they say what should someone in india do. like who is. who starts. maybe at x level and from there he wants. to go.

10x100x500x so. economics levels. our per capita. income is very low right. uh we are at the level of two thousand. dollars. okay uh. if you. you know believe in the economic theory. then. art is our this is a dollar paid ten. thousand dollars is the mark right ten. thousand dollar per capita pay.

actually uh. things start to make sense right there. is consumption there is. uh. you know all of this stuff happening. right problem india india consumer in. here. you know i keep saying this all the time. india my consumer initiative.

in india why are many of the platforms. struggling in india they get to a. certain scale india cab market casino. you know when i started in 2014 when i. see which report put it in the cab. market those are corroded. right of course. it got expanded through. incentives and driver incentives and. more supply to maybe ten twelve fourteen. fifteen thousand clothes i don't even. know number nine i could be wrong. but. genuine demand caps.

cross that number china crossed the. number in. 2012. in real terms china across the number. actually. 10 000. but 2012 major china across your. number that is when you saw you know.

alibaba happening and alibaba. you know. and many of these you know internet. startups coming off asia becoming. profitable and making money right all. these. consumer brands and all of that right so. india. u.s megawatt are ten thousand dollars. 1970s. right when did starbucks come in the us. was that 1970. [Music].

1990s actually starbucks started firing. right late 1980s and. after. 15 20 years after. u.s actually hit the ten thousand dollar. mark. all the consumer brands you know. came around that. now when did nike come. it's a nike india. we both are wearing nike. all right. i think they've they they've shifted. their operation they run india from. singapore now i believe like again i.

could be wrong but kitna night. what the size of nike in india i don't. know. what's the so tell me what. that to me is a problem of 2030s and. 2040s. um. right. uh of course raj you have built a fmcg.

and you would appreciate why is it going. at five seven percent or would you. appreciate. of b2b payment struct architectures. payments and you know many of those. infra may india invest. data centers.

cloud. you know. telecom. ports. internet right infra india infra. right. second thing in india invest. i think education health care. because all these young population you. want to get them ready to be more. productive. and therefore you need a better you know. quality of education in healthcare right. i think that's somewhere you know again. you will see. this enough population base you will see. you can do some good work there right so.

whether it's edtech or health tech or. whatever right. i think the other area is you know all. the initiatives that are trying to kind. of improve productivity. i think that's where we'll. try to. do well so productivity improvement kind. of.

i mean they should be thinking about. manufactured goods and service exports. so sas i.t products. manufactured exports there is a window. out there right now because of. kobed and. china's global status. people are looking at india as an. opportunity i meet. a lot of our customers. and i'm seeing this. renewed energy and optimism around india. led exports in every segment.

right i think uh so it's an opportunity. china is no longer low cost china is. actually high cost labor he cost. seven eight times. [Music]. of course because of. automation they have done the quality of. the product produce is better but that. also be that we can do look at the. example of more bee in gujarat. india is becoming and i haven't been. there but i have heard this story from.

now so many people and i plan to visit. morbi. amazing infrared environment. or global tile. manufacturing export housing tiles or. tile related products. areas. we have to think about tools machinery. tiles. appliances. you know mobile without. auto batteries. we have to become see if we have to get.

rich. we can't get rich by selling to each. other. [Music]. that has been the story of china that is. japan that has been the story of south. korea that is the story of every other. country. we can't get rich. we are trying to get rich by selling. stuff to each other.

i would. look at manufacturing i would look at. service it's not sexy. right it's not sexy. but. it is where a lot of value will be. created. you know it might take you three five. years right now if you're a young 20. year old. right to get your gearings right. bearing in this in this but once you get. it right it'll boom. it'll expand it'll. it'll do really well right so so let's.

say. do you have. any. experience of. the demand supply in your u.s europe. like what do customers consumers need. there or do you have any any idea. what do you have to be in a competitive. market and just be there with our cost. leadership they go you as european. you know someone was telling me. yesterday actually you asked me if. you're making two fifty thousand dollars. three thousand dollars you're hand to. mouth to us.

people actually spent all of that in. buying stuff right which they did not. even need so consumerism. because of social security and this. american dream and all of that and the. economy is like i mean your per capita. income is you know 30 40 000 but what. i'm thinking is if someone's listening. to this and they feel like okay let's. focus here and they want to sell what.

should they sell actually opportunities. so i don't want to limit like i mean and. how do they find opportunities. let's say furniture furniture but i have. furniture. i think this there is furniture getting. exported to the us furniture. home decor. uh machine parts. high value machine parts and low value.

[Music]. it's it's it's wide open right now you.

look at auto supply chain you look at. electrical supply chain you got. appliances you look at uh but in. submarine do you feel china is leading. and killing it in the china is. definitely far ahead we never got this. opportunity last 20 30 years right china. [Music]. but the way things are moving right. right now china is. getting old faster. china is uh. expensive china labor cost. indian regulation and government.

is actually promoting. uh. you know manufacturing in india through. pli schemes. uh. [Music]. right starting with mobile um but now. with auto i think pyala is getting. successful.

you know that you know let's write a. piece of code it's very cool. you know and that's. but our problem is that you're different. easier opportunity. actually log becomes. right i mean you'll have less. traffic there. right and you have less competition. there right and you will also have more. opportunities there. toys legal.

right. massive market massive marketer or. i think indian toys will do well i mean. i have some customers who are actually. into that they're seeing huge demand. because china say toys. indian toys are doing very well right so. toys are massive so don't you feel like. have you tried thinking about. let me do something with riviko. internationally also. india. opportunity.

right we are just starting out tip of. the iceberg right now i'm saying man if. i'm saying this manufacturing. theme entrepreneur should do and many. entrepreneurs. uh would already be doing it so. manufacturing to india my body. and i see rivigo as a. you know logistics. partner part enough actually for these. for these companies right. uh even today we serve lot of companies. who are actually. producing and manufacturing in india and.

exporting outside that's why i have. these insights from the ground when i. meet these customers i see the. excitement they are showing about. exports right now. which is never before there has always. been but there was always. ifs and buts. around it yeah india environment. i see less of that right now. i think i am seeing less of that right. now it is still there.

but i think in a lot of segments we have. actually. mastered the art of. doing things. and uh. we should continue that path so i think. i see i see review has a big role to. play in this whole next 10 20 years as. as a logistics partner to many of these. brands and companies will come about so. when you talk to these people do you. export. there do you also talk about how do they. find customers what do they do. many. customers.

right so. uh and it's easy there are channels. there are distributors there the.

distributors who are looking out for you. right there channels out there there's. uh. a visit. but you figure out i mean it's more. so. couple of years ago five six years ago. indoor was in spring indoor number one. vinegar cleanest city.

so they started putting dust bins. everywhere. right this part of putting dustbin. everywhere. blue green blue green has been. everywhere so there's one guy who pushed. to the mayor and said kim. hunga because every day. if there are like let's a thousand dust. bins thousand dozens when they're. out you have to put it to a central. place right so he said instead of. government doing it i do it and then he. started extracting things from there and. then joshua was messing raw material. waste waste process start exporting.

and i said. this is. and this is one of the smartest business. which i found out and the guys were 27. 28 year old. in out of indore within i think two and. a half years or something. they. they built around 300 crore business in.

just one city fabulous. if you touch any. space right now any space right now. you will find an opportunity you have an. opportunity to make a better pump. a better motor.

a better fan a better appliance a better. nut and bolt a better file a better. machinery. there's an opportunity there and there's. very less competition there again i'm. telling you in listen there is. competition of course there are people. who are there i don't believe there's. less competition because if you go to. tier two tier three so i'm from a tier. two right and. i. i've done i've built business in tier. three tier four villages so i've seen. massive competition massive competition. point i say is less competition in the. sense that i mean if you are able to.

build a good team and a smartest thing. you have an idea you have something more. innovative. you know there will be far less. uh there'll be far less vcp money. chasing it probably you know in the. early days and they'll be far less kind. of. competing teams that will solve the same. problem unless you are. and you will get that. runway to be kind of successful give me. tell me one thing. so in tier 2 3 people have figured out. the value chain okay and once they. figure out the value chain they feel. this is the business.

for that they need capital to start a. manufacturing plant how do they figure. that out. because it's very difficult to convince. a vc for a manufacturing game it's very. difficult to go to banks i mean they. don't give you because you know you also. don't have a penny you know before. before this you're chatting about. investing right i. if there is an area i would love to. invest in i would love to invest in. businesses that are having dollar. revenue right and particularly. manufacturing as a theme.

and. i believe a lot of real kind of vcs and. pes will also get to this game sooner or. later. realizing that there's a lot of value. creation happening here. uh i think particularly pe money or or. you know those crossover funds and all. of that right i think. uh. vcs in india are still a replica of. what's happening in the u.s or china. right and they're still. doing what the valley is doing. and. look.

us does not have that u.s is not. manufacturing u.s can't manufacture so. u.s can only do. you know consumer stuff and consumer. internet. and we are replicating the same. uh kind of uh phenomena here we are. saying. consumer internet. here right that's a little bit of a. sad story right yeah.

how many. [Music].

we don't own that ip right i mean the ip. or the equity or the property or the. this thing is on by. the us guys i think. the only way to challenge this and. reverse this is. if we get dollars we need dollars for.

sure right if we get dollars in terms of. the consumption. story. from our consumers dollars or euros. and then use it to create. a value and then the value that gets can. get kind of protected here right. [Music].

a value shift is happening from psu's to. this thing. but do you really have a 510 billion. fifteen twenty billion dollar. sustainable story. coming out of indian consumer very less. probably dmart probably. bajaj finance again demand is also. infrastructure play more than anything. else. consumer hair but again at the level. where. you know it's at a very early stage of.

where walmart was yeah 1950s or 60s of. the us i call it if you see walmart. story and study it deeply right 5060s. majority walmart. a phenomenal concept of you know big. bazaars and hyper mars and all of that.

indian consumer was not ready how how. else do you explain the. failure of our future future group right. it was ahead of time. not because i mean uh you know very. easily. we say. entrepreneur. i think it's not iron markets play a big. role warren buffett says right and. between the market and entrepreneur i. always choose a market right i mean. i mean. a great and he learned from his own. experience.

so basically for 12 years. a very interesting story right. so. uh. he was investing right. by some. uh. stroke of a little bit of anger and ego. he ended up buying that plant. he ended up buying that textile plant. okay. now. us.

was becoming very expensive. to produce textiling and it was going to. cheapest locations. uh. so the heyday of textile is getting over. but he actually had this great operator. the ceo who was doing really well. and.

so actually a very strong entrepreneur. operator. in a weak market is a problem. because you might be actually. flying the wrong horse for a fairly long. period of time. i usually ask this question that how do. you judge a good entrepreneur and what. are the skills thing. from you i'm gonna flip it like how do. you make sure that the market is right. and what kind of market to go in how do. you judge the market are there. uh analogies are there researchers or. the studies you read what how do you. figure that out so. that's a very important question i think.

actually. india entrepreneurs. market research. recently said i think a week or two ago. i loved his interview. [Music]. where is his interview. i think. shirin had interviewed. him. at some entrepreneurship event. one or two weeks ago. and he said india lacks.

[Music].

to serve a consumer like me or you. you know there are 10 different. companies you know in the same space who. are trying to grab they're giving. discounts and they are giving giving us. all the benefits and then. right. so. [Music].

you know there is probably less traffic. there and one can build there. [Music].

population. [Music]. but. my coming back to the question is. how do we judge this market now that we. know that let's say the 80 market is. there where. uh the consumer income is very less. right so how do you judge. us.

there has to be something. right how do you serve that market and. how do you understand that market. because there are there's lack of. research is available publicly. uh there's lack of. let's say if i want to understand that. market what do i do. i mean i cannot go. or i mean should i go to the village and. stay there for one year and try to. figure out problems and then come back. with something.

[Music]. so.

incomes of stages of the evolution of. the economy different kind of services. came in. how brands came in or. i think if one studies that. you will realize he uh there might be. some insights.

and they took off then. maybe a lot more. relevant. right. so i can't pinpoint kind of brands or. examples. but. but that is something which. which. which can be a good indicator because. fundamentals of economies remain the. same the modes can be internet and you.

know internet was not there internet is. a. faster way of scaling up and exchanging. of goods and payments and. in simple words. economies who has been to the similar. scale or maybe are advanced than ours. learning about what worked there and. what didn't. at a stage where you are can be a good. indicator or can be a good starting. point for you to.

start understanding what are the. problems and what other places you. should go to that's one. i'm just saying we are. comparing us. with the value of today or the u.s of. today that's not the right comparison i. think we should look at. today. but we should also look at the 60s and. 70s and what brands and ideas and things. came up okay. and like. don't know the frame of reference they. can give you will be a little more. rational about the market. and the ideas it makes sense now tell me.

i'm curious to know. how out of nowhere. because you are not from a trucking. background you from mckinsey you had you. you were doing the proper indian dream. job right like you you were there you. went to iit when do i am and then this. idea.

well i was trying to i thought okay i. will quit. uh i will actually leave every. i will quit in one or two years that was. a whole idea right every year i would. think about uh.

you know leaving and i would actually. also study a lot of ideas. uh. you know as a side gig okay uh while i. was at mckenzie so for example. um. can i do something there and it would. actually make me a better consultant. also because i would know stuff. spending time on the weekend uh on. solving some of this was my passion.

i understood a lot of business insurance. insurance my internet me okay. i was doing a lot of but i never quit. i actually took two leave of absences. and then again came back to mckenzie. thinking yeah uh it's a good job i can't. tell you right and then someone told me. a mentor told me if you don't. uh leave the site of the show you're. never gonna see sail the high seas right. that's when i thought yeah.

i figured. so it's not like idea came in and then i. left i left. and i said it's. always attracted towards real problems. unsexy. problems to my actually. i went for a few days to indoor. to study cold trading. to study cold trading okay. i thought india.

foreign. on this journey in india right i was. trying to learn what's happening on the. ground. i started seeing trucks everywhere and. thought yeah. part of the economy. yeah and if. india were to become a large economy in. my lifetime. then it will happen on the backbone of. trucking and logistics there is no other.

backbone the eu transportation goods. will be a backbone so there could be. something interesting happening here. right it will serve the interest of. every sector every part of the economy. right. [Music]. i mean i thought. technology. started meeting a lot of participants. and then when i was meeting them i. realized that. actually problem is not just. technology here and. connecting the trucks to. the shipper problem is far more dripper.

teen problems. [Music]. where relay trucking could happen where. in relay. drivers change over in such a way that. every truck moves all the time to the. lazy bombay truck at different pit stops. uh like in a relay race you know the. truck gets passed on like a background.

and. when i was with them you know with truck. drivers you know trying to understand. their life and world and all of that. i got a very different sense of energy. you know which i can't explain i thought. i felt very. uh. energized right i mean just like i. thought.

you know this he feels like a calling. right. so. i. let you know one thing led to the other. and when i when i brought this inside. back. to uh you know the world i was living in. with the investors and angel investors. and team and all of that. i mean they were naysayers of course but. some people found merit in the idea. started supporting and you know one. thing led to the other it. the idea. has always been and still is a little.

ahead of time in the sense that. um. you know. while we found a very early product. market fit of this idea in the. e-commerce space uh where amazon and. flipkart were that time building out and. they wanted faster delivery of goods and. a point in time we moved 70 80 percent. of amazon's network in india and we got. that early start. but you know. after the auto sector slowed down and. covered happening. the truck driver shortage is a problem. for a small time did not trouble the.

sector too much because you know in. kovad you had less number of trucks. flying and drivers are available. but. now again. uh if you talk to anyone right now in. the sector and you are in the villages. and talking to people you will see the. same problem you will see. driver available yeah you have 750 1000. trucks uh 70 drivers to thousand trucks. uh eventually this number people are. projecting it to go to 500 drivers 2000. trucks trucks are becoming a lot more. expensive no one wants to become a truck. driver.

in relay we have we have. seen. a truck driver is happy with 50 lesser. wage up to. than a national line hall driver wow. loves the job. comes back home see these guys if you. look at their social ecosystems. uh their nuclear families now right.

you know months away from home they want. to live. we can be on vacation but also working. right but look at the life of a truck. driver. to release their work from home. equipment yeah of.

of a truck driver and it's a good work. life balance good work. so mac committed i think as a as an. entrepreneur i'm very committed and very. passionate about this problem. so. so i think our. journey we've learned a lot last eight. years i think yeah we've fixed a lot of.

things we have figured out a scalable. model. in the space where we can now enable. every truck to run on relay. so we're giving that technology or that. ability capability to every fleet owner. in the country that you can make your. truck into a really truck using our. processes or technology right i think. things are working well yeah things are. working well you know you you proved. so all the things that you talked about. identifying a value chain and then. building a business there identifying.

like speaking of what category. identifying the value chain breaking. down that part. your journey is like an example for what. you just talked about. so it's it's great that you've already. built and your approach is so clear. and we i'm glad that i asked the. question in the end because whatever we. talked about it makes all the sense in. the end now like it's like a proper. example of whoever wants to build a. business can look it this way how what. is the top of the pyramid problem what. is the bottom pyramid problem how do you. start with hey you know what with the.

cold shortage electricity shortages. you figure out import casa better cold. storage underscore and i i think it's. commendable what you've built is crazy. and i'm just glad that you did it. i am happy. that. we after a very long time. talked about stuff the unsexy stuff. which we usually don't talk on our. podcast so thanks for doing this thanks. for giving all the insights i'm glad we. did this thanks glad we did this thanks.

perfect. [Music].

you.