JRE MMA Show #179 with Josh Thompson & "Big" John McCarthy

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. All day, >> gentlemen. We're live. >> What's happening? [music] Good to see. you. >> What is up, my man? >> I enjoy your show. Your show's. excellent. You guys have a really good. MMA show. It's really solid. >> Thank you. [laughter]. >> Thank you. I I kind of blew that. So, how'd you talk about that? >> Yeah. [laughter] I got to talk to him. about. >> You guys are not doing it anymore. I I.

stepped back away when I I started uh. refereeing again. >> God damn it. You got to go back to doing. it. You guys are great. You guys are a. great combination. >> I think I might. >> What we did is we what we what we did is. we started doing uh McCarthy Mondays. >> because when he went back to refereeing, he's not allowed to talk about. promotions, not allowed to talk about. fighters and what's wrong and and the. things that possibly, you know, can make. some changes in. So, we just started. McCarthy Monday where we just talk about. like the Joe Schilling situation. That's. something we could talk about, right? So I just I created a show for him to. just only do on Mondays. >> He created.

>> Nice. >> Well, his obviously he created. [laughter] it. >> It's his input. I was just trying to. find ways to keep him involved. >> I love that you're refereeing again. We. need great referees, but I wish you were. out there doing both. It doesn't make. sense to me that you can't do both. Like. it's not like you're not going to be a. great referee while also still being. able to comment objectively about. promotions. It's important. Yeah, >> it is important. >> It's important. Look, transparency. What. where's the problem with that? >> Exactly. >> But you get these people that oh no. because you might say something that is.

going to create a problem and it's like. it's not a problem if it's the truth. >> It's ridiculous. I mean if that was the. case why how come I can do it as a. commentator? >> How come all these guys can do it? >> Because you're the best. [laughter]. >> Yeah. But I mean how everybody should be. able to have a voice especially. referees. You should like if something. happens and you're a referee and you. could say here's my perspective. this. what this is why I did what I did and. you have it on a podcast on a regular. basis that's a benefit to everybody. >> So that is what I'm trying to create.

>> I believe you're right. >> But what you but what you run into is. you run into some issues where the. referee says too much and then people. come back at them and then the. commissions have to answer for it and. the and the fight and then the fighters. dig on them and then. >> good people are talking. That's how [ __ ]. gets solved. That's how you you don't. have like two one hand down does not in. it's not a downed opponent anymore. Why? because we [ __ ] complained forever. 12 to six elbows, they're legit again. Except in New Jersey. [laughter]. >> Did you see the problem? >> Yeah. See the goddamn problem?

>> When we were in New Jersey, I was like, "You got to be kidding me. How the [ __ ]. do you guys not have 12 to six? >> You can't make it any more complicated. for the referees and the fighters, >> bro. It's so dumb. It's the dumbest. [ __ ] thing. It's so unfair to the. fighters themselves because you when we. look I was part I wrote those things out. and they were passed by the ABC but we. gave six months six months because you. got to give the fighters time to train. to make sure that they get it right. Okay. And so it's put it in it works. great and now you expect them to go back.

to one location. >> in the middle of a fight. >> Exactly. one location and now they're. going to automatically go back to the. old rules. It's like you do you realize. what you're doing to them? >> It doesn't make any sense either. The. old the old rules are [ __ ] stupid. We. all We all agreed. Everybody No one was. like no no no 12 to six elbows are too. dangerous. >> Oh no. Oh yes, there was. >> Was there people? >> Oh yeah. Your broadcast partner. >> Shut the [ __ ] up. Which one? >> Dan Cormier. >> No. >> I swear to God. >> He says some crazy [ __ ]. >> He does say.

>> DC. I love you. Why did he say that 12 to six elbows in. the game? >> He goes, I think that rule should. absolutely that's dangerous. I swear. >> if we're going to ban anything, and I. don't think we should ban anything, but. if we're going to ban anything, sidekicks to the knees. >> See, and that that right there, you. think we should. Okay. No, you. shouldn't. >> I don't think we should, but I'm saying. if we should, there's an argument that. you're going to blow out a guy's knee. He'll never be his career be the same. >> Then we should then we should absolutely. ban kicks to the head and knees to the. head. And we should we should ban Yes. Because what's worse, the blown out knee.

or the blown out brain? I'm agreeing. with you. I don't think we should have. banned anything. But there's one thing. that does bother me like the Cleo. Roundry Modest Picos fight when knee. went sideways like a he's [ __ ] for a. year at least if not forever. >> Okay, but what's the difference between. that and we'll say you know Eden Barbosa. Terry. >> Terry Adam Terry Adam and that kick to. the head. You don't think that that was. more than a year? You know it was. >> really was never the same again.

>> Exactly. That's my point. >> Oh yeah. I mean that was like getting. hit by a meteor. >> Oh, >> that was crazy. >> I mean it was absolutely perfectly. executed beautiful technique that it. absolutely altered and we talked by the. way first wheel kick KO in the USA. >> Absolutely. It was. crazy. >> Yeah. But you look and you go there are. those fights and we say it all the time. and you know you as the as a referee as. a fighter you know with him. >> Here it is right here. >> We go and watch this thing. I mean, >> I mean, that one was just insane.

>> But you, the fighters themselves, they. get paid to get damaged. I hate to say. that, but it's the truth. That's part of. their pay is they go in and they're. going to accept some damage, but you. don't want them to have unnecessary. damage, >> right? No, I agree with you. So, you. think we go rising rules. >> because there's something to be said for. that. >> I do. I look at I've I've advocated for. knees on the ground for a long time. It's never going to happen. My position. is it's better in a ring because you can. avoid them a little bit if you're. mobile, right? If you're still conscious.

and you have defensive capability, you. can move around knees and kicks. >> When the cage happens and you're butted. up and someone stomps you, that's a. totally different end. >> First off, the stomp I don't ever agree. with. And the reason why is this. Name. me the fight that you saw that a stomp. was an effective technique when the. fighter was not already seriously hurt. Doesn't happen. >> Sakuraba. Sakur Robbie used to do it all. the time after he hurt people. Every. time he tried to do it when they weren't. hurt, they just moved and he was.

Mongolian stomping on nothing. >> Go ahead, take a look at him. >> Yeah, I'd have to go back and watch it. >> Yeah, there was there was uh Mininoa and. Phil Baron. He did that a couple times. with him when Minoa couldn't get the. taked down cuz I was there cornering him. for that fight. There was that fight. Then there was um and then Shogun and. Ninja. Remember when they used to like. do the. >> stomp. stomp Ninja and Shogun the brothers. together? Those guys were phenomenal, Adam. >> Oh, and we people that only saw Shogun. in Pride missed it. >> Oh, yeah. >> You missed it. Excuse me. In the UFC.

fight against Pride, Quinton Rampage. Jackson. >> was I mean, cuz a lot of people didn't, you know, going into that fight, you. know, that's Rampage. You know, this. this guy's young. He absolutely just. annihilated Rampage in that fight. And. it was like, oh my god, he's way better. than I ever gave him credit for before. that fight. That fight was that was a. coming out party for for Shogun. >> Yeah, he was a lethal striker. Lethal. And all those Kurativa guys were so.

hyper aggressive. >> Yeah, his brother was just as nasty. until he, you know, he started got a. little chinny after a couple shots. fighting big guys. >> Yeah, that was the problem. >> Didn't he fight Alexander? Didn't Who. did he fight? He fought some. heavyweight, right? >> Yeah. And he got he fought quite a few. >> crushed. Yeah. >> But he fought one guy where it was like. what is this? Why is he fighting this. guy? >> Yeah. I can't remember who it was. Was. it a million? >> I say Alexander a milliona. >> Yeah, that's what I'm saying. I think it. was that. >> I think it was. >> And it was like one of those fights like. No, no, no, no, no. This is a real.

[ __ ] heavyweight. A big one with. nasty striking. >> Yeah. >> You know, I mean, he was [ __ ] nasty. >> He was good. >> Yeah, he he had some smooth striking. People don't give the millenos as a. whole. Alexander was a little bit off, a. little bit crazy. >> Oh, a lot. >> Okay. [laughter] I'm just. >> How about the death on his back? Like. the [ __ ] death holding a baby. tattooed on his back. Like that's a. choice. [laughter]. >> That's a [ __ ] See if you can find. Alexander Ameilion's back tattoo.

>> You look at that, you're like, what is. going on in your mind that you're like, "This should be on my back permanently.". But that's the brother. [laughter] And. then you have Fedor as the guy who is. even better. >> And look at Fedor is, you [laughter]. know, he was such a good guy. >> Look at that [ __ ] tattoo. >> There you go. >> What does it say in Russian, Jamie? >> Jesus. >> No, that's Oh man, >> that is the craziest thing. The baby's. got a [ __ ] sword and a crown. >> Oh yeah.

>> And then death is like, "Yes, let's kill. everyone right there.". >> Yeah. >> It's not even a good drawing. [laughter]. >> It's like that's some Russian prison. [ __ ] for sure. in Russian prison. >> He's 100% committed. >> That's a ballpoint pen and a [ __ ]. sewing needle. Yep. >> Yeah, they did that in Russian prison. 100%. >> You're in an ash, [laughter]. >> bro. That's a lot of time. God is with. us. Are you sure? >> Are you sure? Based on that. [laughter]. >> And then you got his brother. His. brother has no tattoos. >> No tattoos. Completely different.

>> Small little wooden cross on his chest. You know, as far as. >> I know, right? He's so stoic. >> Oh, he's awesome. Alexander Millioninko. James Thompson fight. James Thompson was. an animal built like a [ __ ] Greek. god. Gig comes out like terrifying. [ __ ] huge massive. The best is the. look on Alexander's face throughout all. of the. >> I'm going to fall asleep. >> Just completely stoic. Look at Thompson. so worked up. Starts pounding his chest. He's.

>> He's shaking. Look at him. He's ready to. [ __ ] his [laughter]. He's He just stepped out of a bar. >> He's [ __ ] No flexing at all. Doesn't. even lift his hand up all the way. It's. like, "Hey, everybody.". >> Got the belly hanging out a little bit. It's awesome. >> Look how chill he looks. >> Yeah. I'm going to get. >> Look how chill Fedor looks, too. Like, no worries at all. >> Jeez. >> Look at James. He's so [ __ ] hyped up. Alexander's like, it's like he's. ordering sandwich. [laughter]. >> It's like, I'll have uh Swiss cheese and.

mustard. >> He's ordering a sandwich. >> It's vicious. >> The way he rocks him, too, right off the. bat. >> James comes charging. >> James comes charging at him, puts him. down, but he wasn't hurt. >> It's like he fell down. >> That hurt. That hurt James. That hurt. James. on once he starts connecting, they had that Soviet style fluid boxing. that there just whip punches. >> Look, I I'll tell you what, I worked out. with Fedor and it was it was it was a a.

great moment in my life. If you're going. to sit there and say, "Well, if you're. going to get your ass kicked, it's a. great moment." But the one thing I. always thought, you know, before, you. know, watching him, refing him, I go, "He's got to have some kind of, you. know, like just [ __ ] strength, you. know.". >> Right. Right. No, he's fast. And I mean. super fast when he explodes and and his. hands are down kind of so it's hard to. see when the shots are coming and. everything he does he just explodes into. >> and you go, "Oh, I get it.".

>> Because you got to work really hard to. try to stay up with his speed when he. all sudden is exploding and then it's. like, >> "Oh, he doesn't get tired and you're. starting to get tired because you're. having to match that RPM that he's at, >> right? And he's not a big heavyweight. either. Which I think is a real benefit. >> I think it is until you're fighting a. guy like Enano. And I'm like, >> there's a problem there. >> Oh yeah. >> That guy can be patient. 265 naturally. nuclear power. >> and Enano hits you anywhere in the head. >> It's a problem.

>> You're in trouble. >> Yeah, it's a real problem. >> It's he hit Philip, you know, Lind hit. him on the basic almost we didn't even. say the temple. Hit him almost to the. top of the head. >> And look, he was out. I mean, he's not. be able to to control his body. >> That guy's got the ability to hurt, you. know, when he fought Kane. >> Yeah. >> You know, take a look. Yeah. It wasn't a. great ch, >> but it hurt him. >> Yeah. He's got crazy power. >> Yeah. Just nuts. >> But Fedor was a different thing because. Fedor had that like that Russian style. of movement that you see like Dimmitri. Bivval has where they're like real.

relaxed and then they explode. >> Exactly. >> And the footwork. >> that little bit of a bounce. He's got. that little bit of a bounce in out. just. sits there and wait and he waits for. your motion to come where he wants it to. be and then he changes that distance and. just cracks. >> Fedor did a really good job of coming. around your guard as well. So it wasn't. just a big straight right all the time. You know, Rich Franklin used to do that. as well. He'd come around your guard. You put your hands up and Fedor had a he. did a great job with that coming around. and landing the big overhand right and. then he'd come uppercut then he'd take. you down or hip toss you body lock you. >> and if you took him to the ground off.

his back he's got one of the quickest. [ __ ] arm bars in the game which is. nuts. transition. >> man Choy he ar tall dude [laughter] he. looks like a little kid he's all. stretched out he looks he's like in this. you go. >> he's off the ground completely. >> he was great everywhere and and you you. know you you think about him as being. this overall picture of like one of the. greatest if not the greatest MMA fighter. of all time but people forget like his. standup was so good that the Crocop. fight was mostly standup he wrote he.

wrote the blueprint on how to beat. Crocop which you got to be him to do it. though. Yeah. >> The thing I mean he first of all his his. stand up has always been real dangerous. on but also it's like the way he was. able to check that left kick. He was. doing a lot of like lifting the knee up. and catching it like up high. >> But how many people had you seen that. would back crow onto his back foot and. march forward cro Exactly. And that. prime that was the difference is when. you looked at it. >> he he told himself nope I'm going to I'm.

going to make you go backwards. And it. took a lot of what Crow Cop did and it. it just nullified a lot of it. >> Was a lot of it was the threat of the. grappling, right? That was a big part of. it. >> Well, not with that cuz then Fedor. didn't have to worry about if he if he. did slip and fall, if he threw if he. threw a big shot and he got cut from. underneath, if he did fall to the. ground, Crocop was going to fall to the. ground, he could just hop back up. So, there was that. And then on top of it, too, when you fought him in a foam. booth, you not worried as much for that. head kick to get there if I'm within, you know, inches of you. That left kick. was.

>> there's this picture of Heath herring. where the shin is like halfway into. Heath's ribs. >> Oh yeah. >> It's crazy. You know that picture? It's. crazy. You see cop's shin is just so. deep you just feel your own liver. >> I've seen the Vanderlay ones cuz. Vanderlay has his ribs were just tore up. from from there. >> Look at that picture. Look at that. picture, bro. That's crazy. >> Do you know how much that hurts? [laughter]. >> I mean that is. >> Actually, I do. Well, that's that's the part where you. you look with people and you go, you. know, do you realize what you Yeah, that. would hurt a little. No, no, no. Your.

entire body is going, >> I quit. Seees up. >> He had such explosive power. And he to. me, he was like the first guy to figure. out how to transition from kickboxing to. MMA because he did it with. explosiveness. But at the highest point, you got to give that Moraurice. I got to. give him That's true. Maurice Maurice. was the first, >> but Crowop was in that same era and he. was doing it in pride. >> And all these other guys like Ernesto. Hoo, it didn't really work out for them. when they like he only fought Bob Sap in.

a kickboxing fight, but even when they. were fighting like bigger like Crocot. [ __ ] up Bob Sap like same era, same. not Yeah, same time period. It was that. explosiveness. Whereas like guys like. Peter Ers that wouldn't translate as. well in MMA, elite strikers, but they. wanted to get into a rhythm. They wanted. to like get into situations and. exchanges. And with Crowop, it was just. these one shots were coming at you like. nuclear missiles. And it was a different. threat. It was a completely different.

threat than a lot of other guys because. he was so explosive. >> Yeah. Yeah. He's Crocop was what a great. guy. Oh, he's awesome guy. >> as far as, you know, and but his left. kick has to be the best left kick. there's ever been in the sport of MMA. >> Yeah, I don't think you could even think. of a second place. Like, who's got a. better left kick than Croka? Maybe Edson. Barbosa's switch kick. >> Yeah, >> that switch kick was preposterous. >> So quick, so accurate, too. >> In his prime, he would kick and I'd be. like, "Is there something wrong with my. eyes?".

>> It was so fast. >> It was just like a 120 lb guy. It was so. fast. >> Yeah. They Dana called me a couple times. to fight him and I was like rank number. three. He was like just I think he hit. number 15. I'm like no [laughter]. >> give me a higher ranked guy. >> Sorry dude. LIKE NOT THAT IT'S NOT THAT. I It's not that I wouldn't find. Give me. a higher ranked guy. [laughter]. >> Make it make sense. Help me help you at this time in my. life. Make it make sense. [laughter].

[gasps]. >> You did. >> that when he came in though. You got to. look at Barbosa. You know, he's been. there a long time now when you think. about it. >> Still going at it. >> But when he came in, >> it was like, dude, this is a next level. of standup ability with what this guy. can do. >> And it was like, man, >> and oddly mostly kicks. >> Yeah. >> Like his boxing wasn't threatening like. his kicks were. It was not equal. It was. mostly kicks, >> right? No. >> If he could I developed something along. the José Aldo level of boxing where he. ran the body, came back at top of the.

head with those kicks. I mean, >> Aldo's taked down defense was nuts. >> Probably the best. I think probably the. best in the sport that we've seen. I. mean, honestly, >> other than BJ in his prime. >> Yeah, right. With the one leg hop. >> BJ in his prime was ridiculous. His. balance was [ __ ] insane. Yeah. >> But I think he's the only guy that. didn't get taken down by Morab when. Morab and him fought three crazy rounds. I think Morab went for like 90 [ __ ]. takedowns or something. >> And I don't think he took I don't think. Morab took him down. Yeah, I think Barab. mostly won that fight up against the. cage, hitting him with punches, working.

for takedowns, cage damage. >> Extremely underestimated Joseé Aldo's. [snorts] take down defense. >> Well, it's the f you take a look and. Aldo doesn't now all of a sudden it's. kind of like the Anderson Silva thing. All of a sudden, it's like, you know, well, let's talk about the very best in. the 145 pound and and look at Alexander. Vulcanowski's right there. He's. phenomenal. You know, I'm not saying. don't forget what Josie Aldo did. Absolutely. >> I mean, through the WC into being the. UFC champion, all those fights, man, I.

tell you what, that guy was absolutely. nuts as far as how good he was at one. time. >> Well, I think it was also because he was. an elite soccer player and the ability. to like if you ever watch a live soccer. g professional soccer match, >> you're like, "Oh, Jesus." Like these. they don't get to slow down. They don't. have a like a there's no halftime. There's no like big break for. commercials. There's no [ __ ] They. just go. giant [ __ ] legs. They all have insane. leg power cuz they're just sprinting all. day long. And you go, "Oh, well that.

would translate perfectly to MMA for. kicking, for moving, for footwork.". Think about all it's not just that, right? It's it's the stop and go. Stop. and go. Like in a real fight, right? I. get a takedown, I get to rest for a. second, and then he postures back up and. gets back to his feet. I got to go again. and sprints again, get the taked down. In soccer, same thing. You run hard down. the line. Oh, the ball gets turned back. Now you kind of jog back a little bit. Now the ball gets played to you. It's a. stop and go of sprinting, just like a. real fight. >> This episode is brought to you by The. Farmer's Dog. Here's a fun fact. Research shows that dogs who maintain a.

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first box of fresh, healthy food. Plus, get free shipping. Just go to. thefarmer'sdog.com/rogan. This offer is for new customers only. Yeah, it's interesting. There's a bunch. of different bases that if you come from. them, they have a big advant it puts you. in a big advantage in different sports. >> Yeah. Soccer and wrestling, those two. things. The grinding of the wrestling. and just the cardio fatigue and. understanding that I can push through. when I get tired because there's nothing. more satisfying, you know, in terms of.

when you run down the line, the guy. plays the ball into the corner and you. got to beat that defender there and then. you cross it across and you're it's that. sprinting down there to beat him. But. then also too in wrestling knowing that. you can break another human being like I. need to break you mentally grind on you. and hang on you. Those two sports I. think are huge for for the sport of. >> and getting used to suffering dehydrated. >> right [laughter]. there's a big factor. getting used to suffering. >> Yeah. >> But the weight cuts and having to. compete on the same day as weight cuts. is a big difference. >> And for people that have never done that.

before and don't know it's [ __ ] hard. Even 24 hours is hard. Weight cutting is. the grossest thing in MMA. It is. >> They should figure out a way to stop it. >> I totally. talk about one of the most. >> There is no way. >> one of the most dangerous things that. you do with it. Like think about this, Joe. Every every sport, soccer, football, baseball, basketball, they all. have team chefs. They all have all these. things as far as we want our athletes to. be as physically ready and have the. right nutrition and all these things.

What's the sports that we go and we. starve our athletes and dehydrate them? [laughter]. 24 hours before 24 hours before the most. demanding, most dangerous sport in the. world. >> Yep. But Joe, even if we did it the same. day, fighters would still cut weight to. try and make that weight. >> The question is, I wonder if there's a. way to prevent that. Like the way to. prevent that, I would say, is everybody, here's your mandate. No one's getting. out of shape anymore because we're going. to have random weigh-ins. >> So, we're going to just show up at your.

[ __ ] gym. >> Can't do it. >> But, but could you like let's say you. fight at 170? You cannot weigh more than. 180. >> See, here here's. >> on any given day. I'll show up at your. [ __ ] house at 7:00 in the morning. Josh, get on the scale. 175. This is not. good. >> You could do it as a promotion. You. can't do it as an industry within the. sport. And the reason why I'm telling. saying that is first off, you have all. these fighters. We'll say they're all. everywhere, okay? All over the world. And for a for an athletic commission,

we'll say the state of California, state. of Texas, they have to have that. particular fighter licensed for them to. say, "We want to weigh you.". >> If they're not licensed in that state on. that year, they can't they can sit there. and go, >> "We could, but you if it got if it got. adopted by the UFC, I bet most of the. organizations would adopt it.". >> But again, that's the UFC has a. promotion. The UFC has talked about. >> and the UFC has the money to actually do. that, but it's going to cost them a lot. of money. And you know, look at I.

understand why the promotion doesn't. want to lose money just to be better. Guys would be in way better condition. Absolutely. I think we've seen what. you're talking about. They stop cutting. as much weight. You could sit there and. you know the the only way an athletic. commission could kind of do it and but. this is bad on promotions is an athletic. commission could sit there and say you. are allowed to weigh no more than five. pounds more than that weigh-in weight. >> Okay. But the here's your problems with. it. First off, the promotion can lose. fights. The pro promotion doesn't want.

to lose fights. >> True. >> Okay. And the second part is what's. saying that the the fighter themselves. is not keeping themselves dehydrated to. make that 5 lb and now they're going in. even more dehydrated into the fight. which could cause them more problems. >> Well, they couldn't be dehydrated. through their entire camp and that's. where you institute randoms. >> That's why your randoms would work if. the promotion was doing it. >> Yeah. But it would have. >> to do it sportwide. It'd be almost. impossible. >> It it would have to take a long time to. figure out how to do it properly and not. lose fights because there's too many. guys that [ __ ] around. Oh,

>> you know, there's Right. There's too. many guys that like look, how many times. did Jon Jones not really train? >> Oh, yeah. >> You know, like the Gustoson fight, the. first one, they said he didn't really. train. >> 10 days. >> Showed up a little bit here and there, didn't really train. So, if there's a. guy like that, what are you going to not. let him fight? Like, what are you going. to do? Like, he's 226 and now that's too. much. >> You also have guys like Michael Morales. right now, 170 pounder. He's walking. around like. 210, 212, 205. I mean, there's a few of.

those guys where I'm standing next to. him like Gregory Rodriguez. I'm like, how? >> Yeah. >> How How are you ever 185 pounds? >> How was How How was Alex 185 lbs? [laughter]. >> I stand next to him and go, "You got to. be [ __ ] me.". >> Nuts. Nuts. Unbelievable. >> And at 185 lbs, nuclear power. But I. don't think he took a shot as well. >> He didn't. There's no doubt about it. Look at. >> Yeah. >> You can go back and look at his fights. He got hurt by shots that were not as. hard as the ones he's taken at 205.

>> based upon it's that weight cut. >> It's the point of diminishing returns, right? It's like there's a place where. you're just doing it too much. And you. know, you kind of love to see freaks. You love to see a guy like Alex weigh in. at 185. You're like, "Good luck with. that. Good luck with this 226 lb [ __ ]. Amazon warrior that pretended to be 185. for 5 minutes.". >> For [laughter] five minutes. But you. take a look at I'm so surprised how he. can make the weight. When you pass by. him and you see how tall he is, how big. he is, and you see him with the face off. with Sir Gone right now, you're like,

how would this guy ever make 185? >> He's 250 now. >> Oh, yeah. >> Which is crazy. >> I saw him last week and it's like, >> dude, 250 means that's almost 70 lb. different from his UFC debut. [laughter]. >> The only case makes me believe that. we're going to see a better Alex is. because he doesn't have to cut his kill. himself. But he also put on muscle and. there's an issue with that. >> But exactly there again diminishing. returns. How much is that muscle going. to do? This is where you try to you try.

to tell all fighters and you know it's. >> Joe [snorts] if when you were fighting. in taekwond do you care about the strong. guy. >> or did you care about the fast guy? >> The difference is MMA with grappling. >> the the the difference is with weight. like if you get a big heavy guy and he. gets on top of you all your speed is. gone. >> Absolutely. You're right. it's gone. within the first three or four minutes. >> But the problem with being the bigger, stronger guy in the lighter weight class. is you're never the faster guy. And so. you've got to be able to maul that that.

person to to be effective. And it only. lasts for a certain amount of time if. you had to dehydrate yourself to that. point. >> where speed is always there when someone. has it to a point unless they get tired. And that speed is hard for you to. handle. But there's guys that were big. for the weight class and had ridiculous. speed like Conor McGregor's is a perfect. example. Yeah. Conor at 145 was fast as. [ __ ]. >> Conor was absolutely dehydrated to the.

point of being a concentration camp. victim. >> Oh yeah. He looked like death. >> I mean it was unbelievable. >> However, once he got in there he was. fast as [ __ ]. >> Oh, look. He used to he used to lose so. much at 145. >> He was. >> he looked like death. >> He was killing himself. I remember the. weigh-ins like interviewing him at. weigh-ins like this is oh my god. >> but then you see him the next day all. full. >> I know he looked good but he good. >> he he was also what was his age back. then 26 27. >> right right. >> can't do that now. >> no you can't do that now it gets to a.

certain point in time where you have to. realize you're cutting too much weight. and it's actually ruining your career. >> but I think the evidence has been pretty. clear when you see guys go up in weight. after killing themselves for so long. they've had success. >> a lot of guys had look at Max. >> when say I was just about to bring him. up I just had Dustin Py on podcast. yesterday and and uh we were just. talking about how he's like look Max the. first time he came up to 55 didn't put. the weight on properly second time put. it on properly he's like. >> significant difference in power mobility. movement. >> the BMF fight with GI come on man that's.

that guy should have never went down to. 45 again to fight top it's too much loss. >> what point because we had we had that. argument about that ex that exact thing. of he would Josh was saying look he. should never It was a championship. fight. Yeah. He was getting a world. title fight at 145. >> Yeah. >> Right. And I said, "Look, it's a world. title fight. I understand why he's going. back down. He's going, he's making a. huge mistake. It should never take it. He should stay at 155. >> You know, work yourself into a title. fight." And I go, >> "I understand why he's taken it. It's a.

>> that made him the number one contender. He beat Justin Gi. He could have. >> I understand why he took the fight. Might maybe he would have favored uh. that fight with Ilia because Ilia is a. smaller guy than Islam." Because if you. think about it, Islam, he [ __ ]. smothers everybody. Yeah, he does. And. his striking is dangerous as [ __ ] Of. course, you know, [laughter]. 100 thousand times. >> But it's like that guy's he's so [ __ ]. terrifying once he gets a hold of you. Like he submits everybody. >> He's a whole lot better in the standup. than people give him credit for. >> Oh, he is.

>> His standup is actually really cool. >> Head kick Vulcanowski. I don't care if. Vulcanowski took it on 11 days notice. He's still headkick. >> He's got a sneaky left headkick, high. kick. It's nasty. He [ __ ] people up. standing up. And that's part of the. problem is that like you get accustomed. to thinking about this guy and then all. a sudden bing. >> Yeah. My point was though was that there. was no he put the weight on properly. He. looked fantastic against Justin Gatei. and then to go back down there to fight. Iliad. I was like doesn't make sense. You're the number one guy on your body. It is you kill yourself to get it down.

back down and then he he gets knocked. out which we had never seen before. >> Well, that's Roy Jones Jr. too, right? Remember when Roy Jones Jr. who went up. and fought Ruiz and then he went all the. way down to 75 and got knocked out by. Tarver. >> Yep. >> It's like I don't think your body wants. to go back down again. You put on all. that weight over like a year. You're. lifting weights. You're And Max had like. a ridiculous strength and conditioning. program. He put real weight on. He. looked very good at 55. >> When Max fought Aldo the first time for. the title, he uh he weighed, you know,

obviously weighed in at championship. weight 145 the night of the fight. Joe, now he was in street clothes, but they. put him on a scale. 178. >> WHAT? >> Swear to God. >> 178. Now he's still He was still. clothed. >> That's crazy. What is he wearing? Rocks. in his pockets. That's crazy. So, let's. >> Frank Shamrock with quarters in his. pocket. >> Let's Right. When he fought Tito, let's. let's just be real charitable and say. his clothes weigh 10 pounds. >> Exactly. >> That's crazy. >> You're looking at more than 20 pounds. But. >> that's crazy all the time. the the show.

that just happened in uh California at. the Inuit doing with that the MVP the. one guy I can't you know 27 pound. difference in weight at 170 lbs came in. 27 197. >> who was it. >> I want to say his name uh. >> was it the guys right before Saladine. Parnas uh Frema. >> Fremont. >> starts with a Z I want to say I can't I. can't think of it but 27 pounds. >> well obviously the biggest one was. Rumble Johnson Rumble Johnson was the. craziest. He would weigh 230 and make it.

all the way to the basically what. Morales is doing right now. >> MVP event on Netflix. >> Fazil Fazil. There you. >> go. >> Namo Fazil recorded the highest weight. gain. 27.2 lbs. That's insane. >> Can you believe that? >> That's insane. That's so much. He got. into cage at 198 for a 170lb fight. I. would love to get Morales on the the. scales like right before he fought Shawn. Brady. >> Oh yeah. >> Like excuse me, sir. And Shawn Brady. Shawn Brady is a a thick human. He's not.

He's not super tall, but he's thick. Oh, yeah. >> He is put together. >> And Morales made him look like a. lightweight. >> Like he's in the wrong division. >> Exactly. He look like a light. >> I was trying to make sense of it. watching it on TV. I thought maybe it. was the camera angle and then they. shifted. I was like, "No, he's still. bigger than him when he's further. [laughter] away. >> He's further away. Still bigger. Exactly. >> He's way bigger than him." Yeah, >> it was a that's a crazy situation where. a guy can do that and it's like the. Pereira situation 8852 when a guy can do. that. >> First of all, how long can you do it? >> That's you know cuz you're basically.

killing your kidneys every time you do. it. You're just taking a little bit out. of them. >> That was the problem with AJ, you know, like I I used to coach and corner AJ. early in his career when he first came. into the UFC and that was his problem. He'd make weight, sometimes he'd make. it, sometimes he wouldn't. He missed. weight a lot to the point where. >> you think that affected whatever Yeah, absolutely. God, that's [ __ ]. horrible. >> That's [ __ ] horrible. >> Again, you're leaving small bits and. pieces of yourself. >> of course. >> in that damn cage every time. Even when. you win, >> he died. I was like, "No,

>> there's a true science to cutting. weight." And he just he didn't have it. down. Like he he wrestled, you know, NC2A, he wrestled division 2. Like he. was a really good wrestler. He knew how. to make weight, but then trying to kill. himself to get to 70 every single time, >> which he never had to be at, >> which Yeah. He never had to be. >> He never had to be at. I mean, he has. massive power. He did great at. heavyweight very fast. He beat Arlovski. at heavyweight. >> in the World Series of Fight World. Series a long time ago. Arloski was. still super legit. >> Broke Arlovski's job. >> Not that is not super legit now. [ __ ].

guy wins bare knuckle heavyweight. championship [laughter] at like 100. years old. >> Dude, you got to love it and fought it. smart. Yeah. >> Look [laughter] at there's a you take a. look at Andre Arowski and people will. say whatever they want about his career. is amaz since UFC 28 was his first show. Nuts. >> Okay. went all the way went all the way. into today's day basically. >> and but he changed his style. >> You know, Arloski was a big power. puncher for a long time and then was. getting hit with big shots and said, "You know what? I'm going to be a volume. guy." And he was successful with it.

Yeah. >> And didn't take near as much damage. >> Yeah. He fought a lot more technical, a. lot slicker. >> Yeah. >> Didn't take big chances. >> Beat a lot of good guys, too, man. >> Beat Travis Brown when Travis was in his. prime. >> Yep. Oh, that that fight with Travis. Brown. >> Amazing. was a freaking awesome fight. >> Awesome fight. Awesome fight. Yeah, he. beat Rothwell. >> He tore Rothwell up, >> which is a lot of people were super. surprised by that. Oh yeah. >> A lot of people thought, you know, Roswell's a tank of a man and he's a. [ __ ] scary big puncher and he just.

looks hairy like a [ __ ] bear. He's. scary. >> Rothell's close to 400 lb. >> That's crazy. Is that real? >> Yeah, he's real. >> He's really that big. He's that big. Unbelievable. >> But meanwhile, he's the one getting. busted up in this fight. And it was. because, you know, Arlosski was just. fighting very clever. >> Just so tough for years, man. >> You watch this fight right now, they. think that this fight gets stopped for. that cut on his forehead. That is not. why. He has a cut on his eye running up. into his tear duct.

>> And that's why it was it wasn't that big. of a cut, but anytime it goes to the. tear duct, >> the right there's the doctor saying, "Oh, no, it's over.". >> Yeah. To touch to touch on what John was. saying though is it really just comes. down to how he changed his style of. fighting. He either fought you all the. way in or all the way out. He fought you. in that foam boost so he couldn't get. off big power shots to avoid being get. knocked out cuz he went through a phase. where he was getting clipped a lot and. getting knocked out. >> Getting hurt. >> Yeah. >> So, he made that adjustment. That's good. on him. >> And all those years in the game, never. lost his enthusiasm. >> No. You know,

>> he's a character. >> You're talking he's fighting influencers. at shows. >> Have you [laughter]. draw that. in the little kid? That was crazy. >> Imagine those [ __ ] dumb kids. >> Right. little midgets running around. trying to [ __ ] get him. I was like, "What are you guys doing? >> Are you crazy? Do you know who that is?". >> The best part was then the the florister. kid goes, "Hey, you can fight my. bodyguard." Bodyguard's in the. background going, >> "Uhoh, >> sure. Yeah, I'll do it." [laughter] He's. like, "Yeah, I'll find him. That's a. good idea. >> Your bodyguard doesn't know who Olowski. is. You need to get a new bodyguard.". [laughter].

>> He's telling him that my bodyguard will. fight him. I was like, "Oh shit.". >> Oh, Jesus Christ. Did you guys watch the. Rico Verhovven Usyk fight? >> Oh, yes. >> I watched the ending. Yeah. Oh, yes. >> Thought it was a I don't want to say. robbery cuz I guess apparently Usyk was. up on the scorecards two two to one. >> That That's robbery. That's the robbery. That's the robbery. If that's the case, that's a robbery. >> He was up. I guess. >> I thought ver first off, Rico Verhovven, you know, we know what he's been in. kickboxing and he's been fantastic. >> Greatest of all time.

>> Unbelievable. >> Greatest of all time. >> Yeah. And and you can look back on. certain people, you know, Ernesto Hoost, how great he was. Bajari was a badass. >> All of them were awesome, but Rico's. accomplished more than anybody. >> Absolutely. >> He's been undefeated for like more than. 10 years in kickboxing. That's nuts. That's nuts. >> Especially with the amount of rounds. comparatively and stuff because you can. have a bad round and it can really. affect your fight just like MMA. >> But this fight, I really thought going. in I go, look, Rico will do okay for the. for the first couple rounds and then. it's going to start to get to him.

>> I was shocked by it. >> He he fought very clever and he he. didn't fight he didn't fight big. He. actually he created the problems of. closing that distance every time. Look. how close he get he kept on getting into. the phone booth and he would do work. >> and it was causing Usyk nothing but. problems. Also, Rico is known for his. discipline and his fitness like he's a. guy who always has tremendous. conditioning and I think there's a lot. of heavyweights that would be surprised. at the work that this guy does and the. pace that he could put on. So, a lot of.

people are like, "Oh, he's going to get. tired. He only fights threeinut rounds. >> Honestly, I was thinking it gets past. five rounds, I'm wondering how he's. going to be able to hold that pace. >> The guy's such a cardio fiend and he's. always shredded and he's just he's so. used to combat too that like getting in. there just fighting Usyk. It's not a big. deal. >> That right hand right there was I mean. beautiful, >> bro. He was winning 8-2 in my eyes. I. thought he was winning eight-2 going. into the 11th round when the fight was. stopped. Now, the fight shouldn't have. been stopped the way it was stopped, but.

also. >> that wasn't eight seconds after the. knockdown. So, after he gets knocked. down, he doesn't have his mouthpiece. So, then they have to go over to the. corner. They rinse off. That's a mistake. right there. >> Yeah. The whole thing's a mistake. It. takes like 30 seconds and then the. referee stops it when he's still. standing, moving around. >> Look, if there's one one of the things. that changed in boxing since I look I. referee boxing now. >> So, here it is right here. This is the. end. We could watch it real quick. So, this is the end. Look at all this time. So he's up and he goes over. This is a.

mistake right here. Lumbering over to. his corner. Hey, come on over. Watch the. first. Watch the first thing that. happens. And this is what we'll talk. about. Oh. Oh, a dropped. That's on. purpose. I'm doing that on purpose. >> Of course I would. Any second counts. But then look at this. So he swarms him. with some punches, but Rico's moving. He's covering up. He's moving. And what. is he supposed to do? >> Yeah. >> What is he supposed to do? That's a bad. stoppage. >> I agree. So, if you're going to stop it. because you felt like the first. knockdown was too much, why would you. let him rinse the glove off? And he.

doesn't take significant damage after. that. That's a bad stoppage. >> No, that's Well, and it's also the end. of the round. >> It's the end of the round. >> It's literally the end of the round. I. think he actually stops it when the. round's over. >> But you look as the referee, Joe, you. know all of this. And if you don't, >> you're not doing your job. First off, you know, he's got a full minute. If I. let this go one second, >> he's got a full minute to recover here. Even if I did think he was a little bit. hurt. >> Now, I think that if that was a. legitimate 8 count and they went right. back to fighting, he would have stopped.

him there. >> Maybe. >> I think he was really rocked. When you. see him go back to his corner, maybe is. the key word. >> See, one of the things it used to be. though in boxing, it was always that you. would if a mouthpiece hit the ground, you had to take it to the corner, have. it rinsed with water, and have it placed. back in the fighter's mouth. Right. >> Okay. That's not the way it is anymore. because of MMA. And the fact that we. take a we take a mouthpiece off of the. ground and shoot stuff it right back in. the fighter's mouth. >> They have now changed to the point of. they do the same thing. And the. difference is many times we'll hand the. mouthpiece to the to the MMA fighter.

because they have, you know, gloveless. fingers. >> Right. >> Right. And they put it back in. Sometimes we'll put it back in depending. upon situations. But in boxing now, you. take it, I'll put it back in his mouth. I'll say, "Is that good?" Boom. Fight. And you don't. >> is that is that in Egypt as well? Do you. think that's possible? >> You're talking about, you know, with. under the unified rules of boxing now, which is North America. >> Okay. >> Okay. That's, you know, most of the time. you go to Egypt, they're still fighting.

under the unified rules, >> but the refereeing is always going to be. different. When you get a referee from. England or somewhere, it's it's a little. bit different. I. >> But I wonder if the referee rules are. different over there. If you're supposed. to rinse off the mouthpiece before you. put it back. No, what it means is you. have not advanced as a referee to. understand what we do now. >> Right. But what I'm saying is do they. have different rules over there? This is. what I'm saying. Definitely not. [clears throat]. >> You have not advanced as a referee to. understand what we do now. >> Mouthpiece goes down, you pick it up, you put it right back in the So, it's.

like when the UFC goes to a country that. doesn't have a commission, they sometime. they'll bring Herb Dean, they'll bring. referees with them. So, they know the. rules to make sure that something like. this doesn't happen. That referee hasn't. followed up with the rules. >> in a big time fight. So it cost. >> he's not he's not gone and and advanced. his you know training to understand this. is what we do now and this is why. because we don't want I don't want to. take that time from Usyk because Usyk. did his job right. >> he hit him with an uppercut that. absolutely blasted him puts him on the. mat you go and he gets up you give him.

the mandatory now his mouthpiece comes. out am I going to walk it over to a. corner and have that mouthpiece washed. out with water which does what for it. >> does it disinfect. Exactly. [laughter]. Okay. And that's the real thing, you. know. So, it doesn't do anything. And. [laughter]. obviously, if there's something in the. mouthpiece, we remove the thing from the. mouthpiece. But, you know, normally. [snorts] it's just spitting blood. If. that's what's there, >> put it back in. Boom. Bring him back in. as abruptly as you can to make it fair.

for Usyk, who gained an advantage in the. fight. You don't want to give the. advantage to Verhovven. >> Also, his mouthpiece came out earlier in. the fight as well. It's like that's a. bad mouthpiece for a guy who's a world. class kickboxer. World champion. kickboxing. >> should be so hard for you to pull out. >> Yeah. It's odd that it kept falling out. of his mouth. >> Rico with a boiling bite is nuts, [laughter]. >> right? In the heavyweight division. >> That's nuts. >> Do you remember Carl Parisian? >> Sure. >> He would wear a boiling bite that wasn't. boiled. >> Oh jeez.

>> Straight out of the packaging. That. >> That's the way people are though. >> That's wild to me. [gasps]. >> Boiling bites are nuts. Well, it's also. nuts here. Here's a We talk about this. on the the USC broadcast all the time, but I think it's nuts that you're still. allowed to wear a tie steel cup. >> I think it's [ __ ] crazy. >> It's crazy. You have a I would too. >> That's all I ever wore. I can't believe. I can't wrap my head around how fighters. don't wear them. >> 100%. I would I agree with you 100%. However, it should be illegal. It's. [ __ ] crazy. You have a piece of metal. over your dick. You have actual iron.

over your [ __ ] and if a guy kicks it. with his toe, it's going to shatter. >> I've always wondered the north south. position. And you just start humping. their head, right? >> Oh, dude. Just giving them the business. The one that did that. >> Remember Renavardi? Do you remember that. guy? Boss root student. I trained with. him at Legends and he mounted me once. and he almost made me tap by Yeah. by. just digging his dick into my sternum. [laughter] [ __ ] like this is so rude. They grapefind me. And I'm like, bro, you're [ __ ] killing me with this. >> [ __ ] shy Carter. Shy Carter. Oh shy.

Carter used to wear oversized cup. >> Also awesome for arm bars, too. That's. how that's how Frank Mir broke Tim. Sylvia's arm. >> Oh yeahense. That completely makes sense. >> Yeah, >> but I think it would have broken it if. it was just as nuts. >> Well, as strong as Frank could be, >> as strong as he was, as how good his. armor was and in that position, >> that was a crazy situation. >> Oh, yes, it was. >> That was crazy because I don't think the. people in the audience had any idea what. had happened. Are you if you go back to. that, you know, because Herb Dean was a. referee and and Herb did a great job,

but it was I was actually in the corner. of Tim Sylvia, you know, where I was. sitting and I had Jeremy Horn and Matt. Hughes and Pat Militic are in his. corner, right? And they had the I had. the same view that they had. And what. you saw was Tim Sylvia, but you saw his. elbow out from that armbar. Yeah. Away. from the hip. And all of a sudden, Herb. stopping it. And they are going crazy. They're going, "What are you doing? You're, you know," and they're calling.

him every name in the book. And I go. right inside the octagon and and I go, "Herb, what did you have?" And he goes, "John, his arm broke." I go, "His arm. broke." And he goes, "I heard it and I. saw it.". >> Yeah. You can see the vibration. >> And he he goes, "His arm broke." Right. And so at the time the uh the person who. was in charge of the medical staff for. the Nevada State Athletic Commission. since it was in Nevada, they're looking. at Tim and Tim is like going, you know, but you saw Tim slowly stopped doing. using that one arm started going down.

the side as. >> as reality started setting in and the. pain started coming. >> But they they basically said there's. nothing wrong with his arm. >> Right. I swear I swear to you, Herb. Herb's greatest response I've ever. heard. He he goes, "Ex-ray that. motherfucker." Right? [laughter] Uh. >> because Herb never cusses, right? He. goes, "X-ray that [ __ ] It's. broken." Right? And sure enough, straight across both bones. >> Well, we could see it in the replay in. the replay forearm cuz everybody was. booing. I'm like, "You got to watch. this. Watch this. What's that? What's.

that right there? That's a broken arm.". >> When I saw it the first time on TV, I. thought it just shifted off of the cup. cuz sometimes you'll see that the bone. will shift off, but then it you can tell. you saw it on the replay. Two distinct. pops. Pop. >> and it had like that highlight where. something bends like a piece of plastic. >> [laughter]. >> He looked horrible, man. Oh my god, >> that was hor he's broken more arms. Like. he broke Noggera's arm. That spiral. fracture. >> Spiral fracture with the kamura. Yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. He's nasty, man. >> No, that's You know, it's funny cuz you. if you're around, you know, Frank and. you're talking, he'll always say, >> "Oh, here it is. I don't want to watch.

it again." Oh, watch it. >> Boom. >> Here it comes. >> Right here. POP. >> OH. OH, GOD. And it's the forearm, too, which is like. super unusual. >> And everyone's wondering, "Why'd you. stop it? Why'd you stop it?". >> Oh, dude. Herb was getting booed out of. the arena there. >> I remember this. I remember. And Tim is. complaining. Like, come on, bro. >> Like, you know what just He has to know.

what just happened. >> Oh, he knows. >> He's got He's just such an animal. He. wanted to fight with a broken arm, which. is. >> which, you know, literally you might. have to get it amputated if you did. that. Oh, >> like, who knows what kind of damage you. would have after that. You could lose. your arm. >> Yeah. You literally And that's, you. know, this is, but you'll get people all. the time, you know, I mean, some of the. commentators on some of the shows, you. know, oh, if he wants to fight, let him. fight. It's like, shut up. >> Shut up. Okay. Shut up. >> Yeah. This is You got to protect the. fighter from themselves. >> Exactly. This is not life and death. If.

you lose a fight, I know it sucks, but. it just sucks. And it's not life and. death. You're It's okay. >> Like crazy situations like Carlos. Oldberg who knocks out Yur Prohaska with. a clearly blown out knee. Oh, yeah. Well, you're [laughter] like, if that. went to the round at the end of the. round, it would have probably stopped. the fight. >> Well, think about what Santos, right? He. ended up fighting Jon Jones with two. torn out ACLs or PCL, right? >> That's Jon Jones. >> Yeah. >> I mean, >> and gave him a good fight. >> Gave him a great fight. I think that was. a split decision. >> Oh, it was. >> Which is nuts. Nuts. Like, he could have.

won. We had like one more incompetent. judge. [laughter]. >> Now we're going to incompetent judges. Now we're going to have problems. Well, whoever was judging the Usyk fight was. incompetent. Those those people were. ridiculous that the fact that they. didn't have Rico ahead is crazy. They. just I think when you got a guy like. Usyk who's arguably the greatest. heavyweight boxer of all time. He's. definitely in the conversation. And then. you have so much money involved in him. being undefeated. And so, and whether. the referee's corrupt or not, they know.

Whether the judges are corrupt or not, they know. And if they [ __ ] things up. for everybody. Yeah. You know, there's. like there's some weird shenanigans that. go on in boxing there. You remember that. lady that scored um uh it was a Pacquiao. fight against Tim Bradley? She scor She. was one of the ones that she scored a. bunch of fights. >> I thought you were going to talk Canelo. against Triple G. >> There was a Canelo one. She scored bad. Yeah, there's a She scored a bunch of. fights where you're like, "What the [ __ ].

is this?" And then you have to realize. about betting props. >> Yeah, >> no. No, it's not Adalie Bird though. >> No, >> Adelaide Bird was was the Canelo versus. Triple G. >> Very nice lady. >> She's a Look, she I'm going to give her. her props [snorts] in this. First off, she doesn't do a whole lot of boxing. more, but she does do a lot of MMA, does. a lot of the UFC still. And. >> that woman watches more fights, train, goes to more trainings. She puts in all. the time that you could imagine to. always try to get better. She is asking.

questions all the time. Now, if you're. going to sit there and say, "Well, has. she, you know, you know, can she roll?". No, she can't. But she knows what you. know, if you if you say, "Okay, what's. this?" She'll tell you. >> What's this? >> She knows it. >> She puts in that time. But, you know, you're always going to have the there's. certain fights no matter what you. they're always going to be there. You. know, as the judge, you always you're. trying to do your best. >> Yeah. Yeah, but there was this one lady. where she was involved in quite a few. like ridiculous ones and the Tim Bradley.

Manny Pacquiao one was a big one and. then they looked at some other ones and. then she stepped away from it. The. problem is and I'm not accusing this. lady or anybody of this but I'm saying. that some people have done this in the. past is that. >> all you have to do is make it a split. decision. [snorts]. >> All you have to do is be one shitty. judge that even though it was clearly. for this guy, you say it's for that guy. and someone's making a ton of loot. >> Yeah. And. >> especially in this day and age with. betting. >> 100% man. The UFC has a real problem. Oh. yeah. There's a real problem with quite.

a few fights. The FBI has looked into. quite a few fights and there's there's. one that they focused on the beginning. because they knew that there was some. improper betting, but now they're. focused on a bunch of other ones as. well. >> Yeah. But I'm going to say this about. >> to think that you can get away with it, John. To think that you're going to be. able to get away with it is just [ __ ]. stupid. >> You're an idiot as the fighter. You're a. fool. But if you if you if you were. around the judging, especially in the. UFC, because it's it's mainly a lot of. the same guys,

>> you know, they these guys are on text. links. They are consistently every Joe, every UFC fight, my phone blows up. It. blows up with fighters. It blows up from. other officials asking, "What about. this? What did you see? What do you. think?" And it's because look, it there. is at times. we get media and we get, you know, people, you know, talking about our. fights that call robberies when there's. no robbery. It's a close fight,

>> right? >> And if you guy you wanted your guy to. win. [ __ ] robbery, you know, I I pointed. it out to him. I had him sit one time. Hey, sit where the judge sits. >> because you get one view. You as the. commentator, you get that beautiful. monitor that's in front of you. There's. times when you're watching the fight. live and there's times when you're. watching the monitor because. >> the angles change as the judge now they. put the monitor there for the judges and. and like the UFC puts a great monitor. there for them but we didn't always have.

that right. >> and you didn't always many times you had. the worst seat in the house. >> to be able to judge a fight. >> especially if there's a post in front of. you. >> Yeah. And it's so different than what. people think and it's when you are the. one that's putting your name on that. scorecard. you're signing it. You're and. you know this counts. It's everything. It is everything to you to to be right. You want to be right, but many times. what you're seeing and that's why. they're at the three different points.

and that's why sometimes, you know, people get into this, well, it was a. split decision. Split decision is not. always bad. >> Do you think there be a benefit in. having five judges instead of three? >> No. No. >> I've worked with it. I've done it too. many times. It doesn't change anything. >> It doesn't. >> doesn't change anything. I'm just being. honest. If it did, I would say I yeah, we should do it. >> But if you have two bad judges and three. good ones, >> why do you have two bad judges? >> That's the question. >> That is the question. But when you're on. the road, let's be [laughter] honest, when we're on the road, we do like, let's not even name a state, but we show. up and we have to use these regular.

local guys. There have been issues. >> I'm not saying there haven't, right? >> I'm not saying there haven't. >> There are bad judges. Absolutely. I love. cops. There's bad cops. There are. >> I love dentists. There's some bad. dentists. There's some [ __ ] people. that do surgeries that don't have to do. them. >> You know what I mean? It's like it. doesn't It's not saying that the people. that do it and do a great job shouldn't. be supported and praised, and they. definitely should, >> but it's also it's like it would benefit. I think everybody to have a few more. opinions. Like I like Verdict. Have you. seen Verdict MMA? >> Verdict MMA. I've bumped them up a bunch.

of times. >> I think they're accurate like 99% of the. time. I I looked at the verdict score. I'm like most of the time out of a 100. fights, most of the time I agree with. the verdict score. There's many times. though you can take a look this when I. started teaching the command course and. everything people oh you got to teach. stuff I'm teaching people to take my job. >> right. >> okay but in the end I. >> need a lot of referees luckily. >> they need a lot of judges. >> but they also need a lot of referees for. the big ones where you can't [ __ ] this. up.

>> you know what I mean. >> like that's where. >> it is it's important but it it's not the. job that people think it is it is not as. easy as people think it is. >> oh it's definitely And it's definitely. >> it's the hardest job next to being a. fighter. >> Yeah. >> I think it's fighters number one, referees number two. >> Yes and no. And you're right. As far the. fighting is much more difficult as far. as, you know, what it does to your body. and and what you have to put out into it. and all that. Way more difficult. >> Also, the consequences of [ __ ] it up. >> Boom. >> I don't have the consequences of if I.

make a bad call as a commentator, it's. like, "Oh, Joe's an idiot." That doesn't. mean anything. Like, nobody loses money. Like somebody could lose half their. [ __ ] purse, which I hate, by the way. Yeah. I don't like I don't like the. whole win bonus. Everyone's trying to. win. >> Can't stand it. >> Can't stand it. You should get paid. You're a prize fighter. You should get. paid to compete. This is the number. whether it's 200,000 or two. It. shouldn't be dependent upon judges. decisions. It should be dependent upon. you showed up. You fought your [ __ ]. ass off. You're trying to win. If you. win, you're going to make more money. No. one's trying to lose, right? So, it's.

like, what are we doing? >> I'm okay with the win bonus, but it's. got to be more skewed towards the show. money. So give me like let's just I'm. using a round number of 100,000 8020. >> 8020, right? And then then you give me. another bonus for a finishing bonus. If. I give a knockout, you give me another. 20 or 50. >> Well, they're doing that now. UFC is. doing finish. Yeah, exactly. But I just. don't like win bonuses. I think you you. know the fact that there have been bad. decisions and guys have lost half their. [ __ ] purse when they need it. And. it's it's it's you got robbed. That's. when you really got robbed. Not just a. decision, but you got robbed.

financially, which is [ __ ] crazy to. me. I think fighters should get I don't. think they fight harder. I don't think. anybody fights harder. >> They want to win. They want to win. That's it. No one's fighting harder. No. one's fighting hard because it's just. something sitting out there. And. >> and if they are, they probably shouldn't. be fighting in the UFC anyway because. they're not at elite like world class. level. If they're fighting harder for. >> If you're in the top 15, you're not. going to fight harder because you're. getting paid more. You you've worked. your way there to get there. Your pride. is too involved. Your ego's involved. You want to. >> You're too [ __ ] good. >> Yeah. You want to show everyone you're.

the best. I've always said, look, if you. ask a fighter before the fight, hey, how. much you going to win for? If they're. going to get a 4040 and they're going to. get a 50/50, they're going to say. 100,000. They've already mentally spent. that money. And trust me, it's always. true. >> They they've [laughter] got they've got. that win bonus in there. >> True. Kind of impulsive. >> Yeah. It's. >> fighters aren't the best at saving cash. >> I know. You know, so. >> it's But [laughter] you take a look, you. know, when you sit there. Good at saving. money though is Strickland. You would. think he'd be the most reckless guy. Very smart. Very smart with his money.

>> Yeah. Buy like most of these guys are. buying jeans and shirts and glasses. This dude's buying Wranglers and he. wears the same thing every day. White. beater tape topens. But he saves his money, man. He's got a. lot of money saved up. >> Learning how Learning how smart learning. how to be frugal is very important, especially if you're an athlete. Any. type of athlete doesn't matter. >> Especially if you're an athlete like. Strickland who still rides a motorcycle. >> That's psychop. >> I still ride a motorcycle. He's still. >> You didn't learn anything from Frank Mir. when he broke his femur? Like surprise.

fighters. >> Frank Mir breaking his femur is what. kept me from getting a motorcycle. license. That was the last one. Yeah. Two friends crashed. One friend wiped. out and [ __ ] up his shoulder and then. Frank Mir got t-boned and I was like, I'm out. >> It all comes down. There's the old. saying, there's two types of motorcycle. riders. Ones that have been down and. ones that are going down. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And that's just the truth. >> That's the problem. I felt like I'm. hurting myself so many days a week just. doing jiu-jitsu that like that doing. that on top of that it's like I don't. want to risk. >> No. Yeah. >> Especially if you haven't been doing it. because there there's ways to ride and.

there's you you don't ride like you'll. see you can I can watch people on the. road and I go that dude does not know. how to ride and it's like they're the. ones. >> like that's what's scary. You get a. license, figure out how to ride it, buy. a bike and you [ __ ]. >> you know it's like you could go to a a. car dealership right now and pick up a. Corvette ZR1. You got a 1,00 horsepower. car, right? And like. >> who knows if you know how to really. drive. >> says that you're prepared to drive that. thing. >> That's a fighter jet on wheels. This is. [ __ ] insane. [laughter]. And you just give it to some kid.

>> But it's awesome. >> Yeah. Your parents are rich, so you have. a [ __ ] fighter jet on wheels. Like. this is nuts. >> But you you know what you're talking. about Sean Strickland with how many cars. do you need? You know, I tell fighters. all how many cars do you need? You know, dude, I've had arguments with Rampage. because Rampage got eight million cars. And I go, "Dude, how many cars can you. put your ass in at one time, >> right?" And it's like you're you're. blowing through money that you you can't. get back. >> You can't get back, >> you know? It's like. >> about cars. It's depending on what kind. of cars you have. Some cars are.

>> Oh, if you if you're going to do an. investment, that's fine. >> Muscle cars, [ __ ] like that. They're. always worth money. >> I think if you're a fighter, you need to. take a page out of Forest Griffin's. book, right? With the Scion that he won. for the Ultimate Fighter one. He drove. that thing into the ground. [laughter]. >> Door handles were off. He had to roll. the window down to open the door from. the outside. Like he. >> is such a character, >> you know. But I mean, that's how you. have to live. If you're going to be a. professional athlete, a professional. fighter, that's how you have to live. Especially early in your career. You. don't know how long it's going to last. >> Yeah. Also, there's something to be said. for the comforts of nice things and.

luxuries kind of slowing you down a. little bit. >> Not everybody not doesn't seem to do it. to Arin Serukian. >> No, >> that [ __ ] dude, he he breaks the. whole rule book. The rich kid. >> fights like a demon. built like a Greek. god. >> He is such a stud, man. >> Constantly competing in wrestling, doing. doing everything. He's wrestling this. weekend here at Rough Wrestling in. Arlington. >> Animal. >> Yeah. >> I saw when I saw him last, I said, "Just. keep doing what you're doing, dude. >> Killing it. Just keep doing what you're. doing.". >> I think the best thing that could have. happened to him is not getting a title.

fight. That guy's built. >> No. Yeah. >> I mean, he's capitalized on the bad. situation that he put himself in, but it. was also the headbutt with Dan Hooker. That was [ __ ] crazy. >> Well, because you're as you're as a. promoter, right? You could have cost me. all this money if you get if he gets. cut. Yeah, he gets [clears throat] cut. They pull the fight. Oh my god. Can you. imagine? >> Like come on, knucklehead. >> Yeah, stop. >> But I love fight. >> what he's been doing with RAF. What he's. been doing with his Nina drama stuff and. all that stuff. >> Hey, keep going. Keep going. People are. talking about you.

>> Very smart. And he is the most. interesting contender for Ilio. >> Absolutely. Without a doubt. Other than. Justin, which is going to be wild. But I. think him, the skills that he has, the. wrestling that he has, and the size, he's a lot bigger than I am. >> You know, I I asked I asked DC and. Dustin both yesterday on my show. I want. to Why do you think people were over. overlooking Justin? >> That's a good question. I mean, >> when I look at Ge, I'm like, he's got. all the tools and the weapons. Ilia.

Tapori is heavy on the lead leg. Justin. Gates's got a heavy leg kick. He's got a. great uppercut. He's fighting the. shorter fighter in Iliot. >> He's a bigger guy. >> He's a way bigger guy. >> He's not making 145 ever. No, he's a. much bigger guy. He's a really good. wrestler and he's a nasty striker. And. he's also a a kind of a [ __ ] savage. Like he's not Well, >> he's not kind of. >> Yeah. I mean like like a real savage. Not like pretending like he when he. fought Michael Johnson in his UFC debut, he just threw himself at Michael. Johnson. And he did the same thing with.

Patty Pimble. Yeah. >> The Patty Pimble fight. He could have. fought that fight a lot cleaner. And he. just said, "Fuck you. I'm just going to. walk you down and just blast you every. chance I get and break you up.". >> And that's what he did. And. >> he's a [ __ ] scary dude, man. Justin's. a scary dude when he's on. And this is. the last dance, right? So, you know that. he's going to be hyperfocused for this. fight. >> I just can't see why people are. overlooking him. Like, they just look at. him. They're like, "Oh, he doesn't have. a chance. He's gonna get knocked out." I. think they're taking away so good. >> because Ilia has done it to everybody.

All these guys that are also really. good. >> Got three destroyed great in a row in a. row. Three in a row. Max Holloway, [ __ ]. Alexander Vulcanowski and [ __ ] Dub. Bronx [ __ ] Charles Olivera. That's. >> crazy. >> Crazy. >> Three KOs. >> I don't hold it against him, but also is. it kind of somewhat is there an asterisk. next to it a little bit because. Vulcanoski coming off the headkick. knockout loss? Max Holloway cutting from. 55 to 45 after putting all the weight on. then getting knocked out. The one the. only one I would say no is Charles.

because he goes up fights Charles. Charles you know. >> Charles no Max Holloway yes because he. cut the cut the weight butt. That was. his decision and no one should have let. Vulcanowski take that fight. You got. headkick four months ago into a coma. There's no [ __ ] chance you should be. taking a fight with the scariest puncher. in the division. >> Is that a coach's corner family. decision? >> He's an animal. >> He is an animal. >> He's a [ __ ] animal thinks he could do. it. >> Yeah. But see that's when you have to. have the people. >> Yes. maybe in your corner, in your. family are saying, "Hey,

>> I think it's honestly in your family. I. think you need like someone who loves. you, someone who. >> someone who is just absolutely totally. honest saying. >> you can't do this this fast." I'm not. saying you can't do it, >> but you have to do these things. >> to be able to make it to where you have. a ability to take a shot like you used. to because it's diminished at this. moment. >> Not just that, you have to take into. consideration that he gets knocked out. and then he goes right into camp. Okay. So, you're not gonna rest your brain.

No, you're just not. Even if you're just. wrestling, you're not resting your. brain. >> You can't. Anytime your body your body. temperature rises, >> you're damaging your brain, especially. if you haven't let it recovered yet. >> And there's no way he let it recover. I. mean, he got shinned. >> shinned to the dome by one of the. biggest guys that ever fought at 55. Islam's huge for 55. >> 6' tall. >> And he [ __ ] takes the fight on 11. days notice with no camp. when he's. eating barbecue and [ __ ] drinking. Fosters. [laughter]. >> See that?

>> But like you go to his mentality. He's a. [ __ ] he's a [ __ ] alltime great. >> Oh, no doubt about it. >> He's an all-time great. And you know. when you you go back and look at his. fights with Max, like he was the first. guy to figure out Max, >> you know, and then you look at what he. did cleaning out the division. I mean, my god, I would have loved to seen a. fair shake. I would have loved to seen I. would have never advised him to take. that fight with Islam on 11 days notice. I don't care what the [ __ ] UFC says. No. >> Go Jon Jones. What does Jon Jones do?

Jon Jones had an opportunity to fight. Chel Sun with very little notice. That's. right. He was already in shape. Nope. Won't fight him. Not going to fight him. unless I have a full camp preparing just. for him. I'm not giving anybody any. [ __ ] chances. Period. See youa. Bye. I'm the champ. And if Vulcganowski had. that mindset, he would have never fought. in Islam unless he went through a full. camp again because he almost beat him. the first time. It was a really close. fight the first time. The second fight. he comes in, he's a little soft. He's. not in shape. His mind's not right.

>> Also, the difference in the weight cut. for Islam. >> Yes. >> Islam was on 30 30 some hours compared. to. >> Right. He's on Australia time the first. time. The second time he's like fully. rehydrated. Much more time to recover. Much more dangerous. >> I think it was more of the expectation. that Vog thought I'll just do the same. thing I did in the first fight. >> Of course, cuz he's an animal. You. That's where you need your brother. You. need someone to go, dude. I love you. You're an animal. You're one of the. greatest of all time. But the brain is. the brain. Like there's just certain You. don't want to fight with a broken hand,

right? Okay. Just because you can't see. it doesn't mean your hands not Your. head's not damaged. Your head's damaged. >> That's the difference though is exactly. what you're saying is the brain doesn't. hurt. >> Right. >> You know, it doesn't have nerve endings. And so you can't sit there and say, "Oh. man, I've got this problem." Until you. end up concussed, right? until that now. all of a sudden the headaches are. occurring and the bright lights start to. bother you and all these things start to. add up and you're starting to get mad. about things that you can't understand. Why am I getting mad right now? >> Those are the telltel signs of hey I.

need to step away for a while. >> Do you remember when Travis Lutter. fought um. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. Who was it? >> Eastman. >> Eastman. Marvin Eastvin Marvin Eastman. and he caught Marvin Eastman with a. punch was just a regular punch. >> Nothing. Eastman went and then we found. out later. Oh, he had got KO'ed really. bad, I think, by Tito. Yep. >> In training. >> Yep. >> And it's like that's that's it. >> He'd been ko twice. >> Twice in training. >> Oh god. You know, >> guys are crazy. >> You look and you go and that's why he.

went out the way he did. >> 100%. Weird off of something he never. would have been hurt by. >> It was weird. It was weird. It was like. a straight left that caught him at the. end of the punch. >> End of the punch. Hardly moved him. just. fell back. Yeah, cuz his brain was. damaged. >> You got to give your time full a full. time to recover. 45 days up to up to 6. months, eating more fats, more avocados, things like that to help your brain. recover. >> When Juan Manuel Marquez knocked out. Pacquiao, Freddy Roach said, "You're not. doing anything for a year. >> That's it. >> One year." And he got his chin back and.

took that year off and he came back. actually recovered. But Freddy being a. longtime boxer himself and being around. the game and seeing guys getting knocked. out and seeing guys jumping back in too. quick, he knew. >> Freddy being one himself. >> Yes. >> Look, Fred, you know, Fred, people don't. realize Freddy was actually a good a. good boxer. He was he had a, you know, good amateur record. He was doing well. in pros. Do you remember who his his. trainer was? His trainer was Eddie. Futch. >> Eddie Futch, who was the second trainer. for Joe Frasier after Yance Durham died.

And Joe Frasier, he was there for the. Thriller in Manila with Ali and stuff. like that. Y and uh Eddie Futch told. Freddy Roach, "Son, you're taking too. many shots. You're getting hit with too. many good ones. You're not responding. the same way. You're done. You got to. stop." And Freddy Roach got rid of Eddie. Futch and continued to fight as a. professional and just kept getting. knocked out. And that was the end of his. career. And then he became the trainer. And you know, you can take a look at a. lot of the issues that he has, but as.

much as you're looking at, you know, you're looking at that with Freddy, take. a look at his brother Pepper, who took a. lot less, is worse than Freddy. >> I mean, Pepper's gone now, but I mean, >> head shots and trauma to the brain. Especially when you don't give it the. opportunity to rest and heal, it will. absolutely take and burn your career. It'll burn No doubt. And there's no way. to really tell. There's so many guys.

that are damaged and we don't know. because you meet them backstage like, "Hey, how you doing? Everything's. great." But meanwhile, it's not great. These guys are struggling. They don't. remember what you just said. >> Exactly. >> And and then they're talking to people, they repeat things over and over and. over again. >> And you can watch, you know, I'm I hate. to say it. There there was a fighter. fought in the UFC, fought in bare. knuckle boxing, now he's now training. guys. And uh it's Joey Beltran. Okay. had a decent career, heavy puncher, took. a lot of damage, and I'm just watching.

Joey Beltrin walk off of stairs and. having to go one step at a time with. each foot. And you look and you go, damn. You know, and you and you know, hey, he's been altered. >> You know, he's he's a great guy, but. it's like that's what all of this does. in the end. >> No doubt. You've got to understand that. you you know you I always I I try to. tell fighters all the time, look, you're. a Ferrari. You know, you want to be a. Lamborghini, you're a Lamborghini. But. first off, it's like, you know, the. whole Jon Jones thing is, you know, be.

careful of what you put in its gas tank. Okay? Same with, you know, other guys. You I don't mean to pick out on John, but you know, we he's told the story of. what he was doing. And so, be careful. what you put in the gas tank. and. realize you can only crash that car so. many times before it's a piece of junk, >> right? >> And and it's hard to get that through. that this is not going to last forever. and I'm not going to be the same. forever. >> Yeah. >> They just don't see it until all of a. sudden it's there. >> Well, that's why it's a real bummer when. you see coaches that, you know, love the.

fighters and they haven't stepped in. They haven't done anything and they're. they're keeping. training these guys. >> because they'll lose them. >> Yeah. Exactly. And that's what's. horrible. It's horrible that you, you. know, you have, there has to be the kind. of relationship where you get to a fork. in the road and you go, "This is what. this is.". >> Yeah. >> Like, it doesn't mean that your life is. over. It's the start of your next life. >> It's just you can't identify yourself. Well, Josh, you could speak to this. because, you know, you fought at the. highest level for a long [ __ ] time.

and you stepped away healthy. >> Yeah. And I did I had this conversation. with Dustin yesterday. I just said, "Hey, like I feel like you could still. do it. You're right there. Like you're. one fight away from fighting for another. title again." And he's like, "It was. just the time.". >> And I can I completely respect that. I. said, "Because he's having time now with. his two kids, his wife. He's enjoying. his moment. He just got done lifting. He. was looking swole." And I was like, [laughter] it was I was like, "It's good. to see you. He came on the show. He's. all sweaty a little bit like, you know, he's enjoying this next chapter of his. life.". >> I like when guys go out like Kabib.

>> They just say, "We offer him a bunch of. money." He's like, "No.". >> Yep. >> Good. Did it done by. >> And I hate when people try to rag him on. it. It drives me crazy. They sit there. and go, "Oh, yeah, but you know, you. know, you could have done this. You. could have done that.". >> Fools. >> He He gives zero [ __ ]. >> It doesn't matter. He doesn't care. He. doesn't look. >> Look at what he did. >> That's all you need to know. >> Look, he he dominated people that nobody. dominated. >> Oh, >> and he did it in a crazy way. Like the. Speaking of Barbosa, I remember that. fight where Barbosa had that thousand.

yard stare in the first round. It's like. he was like, "Oh my god, this is never. going to go my way." [laughter]. >> It's not. It wasn't going to. Hey, >> I actually looked something up the other. day. Khabib is the only guy has never. bled inside the the UFC octagon. >> That's crazy. >> He's the only fighter to never bleed. inside the What have I told you? >> That's wild. He's the most dominant. fighter inside. Jon Jones being, you. know, considered Jon Jones is the. greatest as far as you're going to say. >> who's done it better as far as all the.

championship fights and all of that. stuff. Jon Jones is the guy, >> right? He the most dominant fighter I. ever stepped into that cage with was. Khabib. >> Look at this. Khabib never visibly bled, was severely bruised or was knocked down. during his professional MMA career. >> Who's the only person you ever saw hurt. him? >> Connor. >> Nope. >> No. >> No. >> Well, Glacon TBO hurt. >> You can say Michael Johnson. Michael. Johnson had one where he gave he gave a. little bit of I was doing that fight. >> That's right. Michael. >> and he had I was like, "Oh, >> yeah. That's right. Michael Johnson.".

>> He sucked it right back up. >> I said I go I go, "You hurt?" He's like, "Brother, come on. You know, I'm doesn't. hurt." [laughter]. >> But it was the same. You tal you talked. about, you know, Michael Johnson against. Gachi, >> you know, and and after that fight cuz I. did that fight and I told Justin, "Hey, congratulations. That was a great. performance. You got hurt. You went. through it." He goes, "I never got. hurt." I go, "Go watch the video. [laughter]. I never got hurt." Like, I never got. hurt. Oh, yeah. You got hurt. >> Those guys went to war. >> Oh, man. >> The crazy thing was when Kabib was on. top of Michael Johnson and he was.

saying, "Come on, brother. you know I. need deserve title shot like I don't. want to do this to you I don't want to. and then when he almost when he got him. in the kamura I was like please tap. >> oh so you're saying please tap. >> what do you think I'm saying. >> it was so I think the only reason why I. didn't break is Kabib was probably being. kind. >> like he's talking to. >> the whole time the entire fight. >> you have to give up he's saying you have. to give up on bro. >> you know I need to t fight for title. >> it's my destiny I have to fight for the. title. >> yeah I need to fight for the title you.

know this. I deserve this. You agree? He's like, "You [laughter] agree?" He's. saying this why he's beating his ass. >> Michael Johnson's like, "Huh?". >> I mean, he was just a [ __ ]. dude. So, everybody agrees. >> Everybody agrees. >> Yeah. >> As he's beating his ass, he's saying, "See, everybody agrees.". >> Well, how about when he was on top of. Conor and he's saying, "Let's talk now.". He's punching in the face. Come on, let's talk. Let's talk now. >> I loved it. >> He was a monster, dude. Kabib was He's. just so relentless. >> It's everything. It's everything to do. with his lifestyle. And this is where.

this is where you get into, you know, you've seen it too many times, champions. And there's been great. champions. But when you become the. champion, everything in your life. changes. The things that come your way. change. You know, you get you get. offered things that you didn't get. offered in the same way before. You get. all these opportunities and all of a. sudden instead of going to the gym, you're spending the day on a plane going. to a location to do something. Sometimes. it's for the promotion that you're. working for. Sometimes it's for the UFC. or whatever promotion there is and.

because they're asking you. So, you're. missing that day of training and then. you're getting back on the plane, you're. coming back the next day and that's. another day that you're missing. >> He never missed training. He never. changed his lifestyle. He did everything. the same. Yeah. >> And that's why he got the results he. got. >> Well, for a super successful guy, he's. still so humble. >> He's so like normal to talk to. He's so. balanced. And it's that discipline that. he has, the discipline, his his. religious beliefs, like he's just so so.

rock solid. >> The thing about him is that he tries to. make sure he puts the guys that. [clears throat] had helped get him. there, tries to help them get elevated. as well, you know, and that's. it. It it kind of what I'm trying to say. is that how you've done with your guys. with your group of comics and friends. You guys all lift each other up. He does. the same thing with the group of friends. that he has. So, not just like myself. and DC and you know, Islam and those. guys. I mean, like when they go to. travel for events, he put, you know, he. takes care of the house. He makes sure. that it's all organized, make sure that. there's enough room for everyone,

there's food, you know, obviously all. the guys, other guys chip in, but it's. like he's the one that's kind of. organized and everything. He's the. leader of that team. And I love seeing. somebody that puts that much effort into. guys that helped get him there as well. >> Yeah. No, he's a real leader. >> He's a real leader. And now that he's. coaching, I mean, you imagine you're a. kid and you need motivation. You're. literally being coached by one of the. greatest combat sports athletes to ever. walk on God's earth. >> And and one that did it right the entire. time. >> The entire time. And is all about. discipline and hard work. Like you.

couldn't pick a better camp, especially. if you're a grappling based guy, you. know, like send him to Dagistan two, three years ago. [laughter]. >> It's the greatest meme of all time. >> I think what separates, you know, Islam. and Habib and that whole group is that. there's never a moment where they're not. training. Like I was in Chicago at one. of the events for Bellator. >> and we were there and um I was headed. down to the bar after the event. They. were headed to the gym passing me in the. elevator. I said, "Come up and talk to. me." So I was up there for an hour just. chatting with them while they're riding. bikes, you know, lifting weights,

getting their workout in, and everyone. else is down at the bar drinking. >> Wow. >> You know, and so it's it doesn't matter. They they don't even look at it. They. don't think about it. They just go right. to the gym. They get their sweat on. They're up there for two hours. It's not. not It's not like this intensity for 25. minutes. Yeah. They're just working. Yeah. Yeah. And never letting themselves. get out of shape ever. And then you see. them in the morning, right, when they. were living at when they were training. out of AK in the mornings. You'd see. them at the at the track in the. mornings. They would just jog, but then. there was little stations where you do. sit-ups and push-ups. They would do. those and they would do it for two, three miles, and they'd come to the gym. at noon and they'd do their workout,

sometimes hard, sometimes not. But they. were always training, always working. And that's what separates them. They're. not out at the club until 2, three in. the morning, then trying to recover the. next day. They're not drinking. They're. not smoking. They're not doing. >> the no drinking is huge. >> Huge. If there's one thing that [ __ ]. fighters up more than anything, it's. partying. >> Oh, yeah. >> Drinking especially. I guess coke, but I. don't have a lot of experience with guys. that I knew that were doing Coke, but I. have a lot of experience with guys that. were drinkers. And you would see them in. the morning on like they would go out.

Saturday night, Sunday, they'd be [ __ ]. up. They show up Monday to train and. they just looked like [ __ ]. >> Yeah. >> Because they had been partying too hard. just two days ago. And you don't think. that that's going to make a big. difference. If you're getting drunk on. Saturday night, that's days before. you're back to baseline. Days, >> you know, and you can get away with it. when you're 23. >> Yeah, >> a little bit kind of. But are you? Because you're probably not as good as. you would have been. And then maybe. you're going to get hit with some shots. you wouldn't have get hit with or you've. been going to get tapped when you. wouldn't have got tapped. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But and then you take a look,

that's the big difference. And you go. back and look at Habib's career. Go back. and look at his first fight in the UFC. and look at how bad and I'm serious. How. bad his standup was. >> Yeah. It wasn't the best. >> Oh, no. It It was It was probably the. worst. [laughter] Okay. It was. >> I don't think it was the worst. >> It was bad. >> He did a lot of crazy [ __ ]. >> Yeah, but take a look at it. >> Those were his. >> when he was at the [laughter] end. >> Oh, yeah. >> It was It was tight. He always was. improving everything. >> Remember he dropped. >> improved throughout. >> He cracked Connor, you know, with with a. big right hand, which was like everybody.

was like, "Holy shit." Like that was a. shocker. I had several conversations. with Sha about that because I went down. and did his show a couple times in LA. before that fight and I said, "Look, stylistically Connor's the better. striker." I go, "But the the. intimidation of the takedown and the. threat of the takedown for Connor, it's. going to make him hesitant." I said, "Don't be surprised if Hhabib ends up. landing some good some good hard shots. on the feet.". >> That's a giant factor. The fear of the. takedown. The bad about Kevin Random. when he fought Crocop when he knocked. him out. That was what it was. The fear. of the takedown. This the the thinking. the. >> thought process of I can't let him.

>> Well, you get it. If Kevin Randomman and. Crocop fought a straight kickboxing. match with no takedowns. Jesus Christ to. walk. I mean, you don't want you don't. want to watch. >> It'd be terrible to watch. But that. threat of the takedown is this factor. that keeps you from being comfortable. It keeps you from finding your flow. state. >> That little hesitation opens up so many. opportunities to get to catch him. >> Yeah, it's big. It's so big. You see it. in fights all the time when a guy just. has this extra element of the and when. so that's why it's so impressive when. you see a guy like Pereira where there's.

no threat to take down. Yeah. >> No threat. It's not happening. He's not. even thinking about taking down. He's. just going to [ __ ] you up. >> And now it's up to you to deal with. that. >> We just don't have the level of. wrestlers these days in the 205 in the. heavyweight division to compete with him. on the in the wrestling area. That's. where that's where you have someone like. Stefonson coming in. Gable coming in. into the heavyweight division. >> Okay. Curtis Blades can wrestle now. Josh Hokit. >> Look at Josh Hok is the real deal. You. know, he was a. >> he's a he's a good athlete. Yeah.

>> He's a good all-around athlete. >> He's a character. >> You can go with the stick. Oh, hey. >> It's great. Exactly. >> But also, he put up. He put up. >> He put up in that Curtis Blade. >> Hello. That fight as a heavyweight fight. was awesome. Awesome to watch. >> Terrible for your dome though. Oh yes. >> And that's the crazy thing that he's. going to fight Derek Lewis who's the. biggest knockout puncher in the history. of the [ __ ] heavyweight division. More knockouts than anyone. And he's. going to fight him what how many weeks? Seven weeks. >> Yeah. Seven weeks. >> Seven weeks. Seven [ __ ] weeks. After.

a war with you Curtis Blades fists, they're like this. >> They're like that [laughter] big. They're gigantic. He's a giant man. And. he hit him a bunch of times. Big shots. >> And what? Look, I get I got to give it. up for Curtis Blaze. What a fight he put. on cuz he took some damage. >> He delivered some big shots as a mad. heart. Mad heart. >> Mad heart. >> Crazy. Crazy heart because he just did. not want to lose that [ __ ] talking dude. [laughter]. >> That's the funny thing is like it will. drop the the act when you talk to him in.

real life. And uh in in the ring, you. know, in the cage after the fight, I. said, "Dude, that was a [ __ ] amazing. fight." He goes he goes, "I talked so. much shit." [laughter]. How many? He goes, "I win. I talk so. much [ __ ]. >> [laughter]. >> And then he went and did it again. [ __ ]. it. And little I Tapori is out there. trying to pick fights with him, too. It's like. >> great. Well, he just talks [ __ ] about so. many people. He's just trying to get. people upset and talk about it. >> Oh, that's all. He's just pushing. buttons. >> Listen, that's the the Conor McGregor.

game plan. Like, I mean, Conor did it. the best. Chale did it. Chale was the. first really to do it in MMA. >> Then Conor took it to another level. >> They kind of stayed in They kind of. stayed in their lane like this is my. weight class. This dude doesn't care if. you're 135, 145. >> He don't give a [ __ ]. >> He talks a ton of [ __ ] He just wants. controversy. He's basically like one of. them kick streamers. [laughter] He's. just trying to talk [ __ ] as much as. possible. >> He's Look what he's done though, man. He. has himself. He can fight in the UFC for. a division that the UFC has.

>> They need. >> Man, they need these people. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think Gable's the man. That's what I think. >> That's That's your nightmare. >> That's Mike Tyson when he was 20. You. know what I mean? >> He's still he's got he's got some work. to do. But I'm glad they signed him. early, you know, um try to develop him. hopefully a little bit. Give him two or. three more fights inside the UFC. >> The problem is the heavyweight division. of the UFC is so shallow that you could. see Gable fighting for a title within a. year or two. >> Three fights. >> Three fights. >> Could be. Could be. >> He's going to have to learn a lot though. in that process.

>> But you got John in his corner. You got. you got to give him credit though. He. has shown that, you know, first off, he's super fast. >> Oh yeah. >> Okay. But he's also got a chin. He got. kicked up into the head neck area. He. ate that sucker, >> you know, and continued on and you go, >> "Well, he's a tank. >> Don't let that happen again." But. >> don't let it happen. >> But man, you've shown, hey, he didn't. let it affect him. He didn't back off. >> Well, he's Olympic gold medalist. I. mean, he's a winner. >> He is a small heavyweight though, like. that hybrid style.

>> But that's the best. >> It is. It is. >> Well, he's 250. He's [clears throat]. just not tall, but he's wide as [ __ ]. His legs and ass are huge. How about. when he had that dirty boxing fight and. then leapt over the top rope? >> Literally, >> that's the whole thing. >> Like it was a box of tissues on the. ground. >> The best The best one was when he had. the first one and he hits the guy. The. guy's out going down and he's taking him. down. Double. >> a double cold. That's how fast he is. >> Go. >> Yeah, he's the most impressive of the. prospects. But, you know, hopefully this.

is going to excite the like when you. have a like every division goes through. these like peaks and valleys and when. you have a lull hopefully that's when. people come in and they fill that void. and with Francis out of the UFC and. looks like forever. >> which is a shame. >> It's a shame. I don't I tried to. negotiate that. I tried to bring the two. of them back together. I tried to have a. sit down. Dana was not interested. He. doesn't want to have anything to do with. them. is about interpersonal. relationships, interpersonal exchanges. that they had that I'm not I don't know. what happened exactly. I just know what.

Dana told me and I believe him. >> So, it's like you have the best. heavyweight in the world and he's he. can't fight in the UFC. Yeah. >> Which is to me crazy. >> I mean, let's do Molly together. [ __ ]. let's work [laughter] this out. Let's. [ __ ] work this out, bro. >> We could do anything, right? >> I mean, this is why I'm not a promoter. and it's why I'm not a businessman, but. if I was I would I would go to dinner. with him. Come on, man. We I'm sure we. could let our differences be aside. Like, he's not a bad guy. >> It's just, you know, sometimes people.

get upset or they say things like, "Smooth it out.". >> Yeah. >> My experiences with Francis have always. been super positive. I enjoy talking to. him. >> I Francis has been nothing but kind to. me and everybody I've introduced him to. and stuff. He's always. >> the best. He's the scariest [ __ ]. heavyweight on planet Earth, >> dude. He's huge. huge people. I I I was. at an awards thing and and when Misha. Tate and Rashad Evans and I and my wife. were taking a picture and all of a. sudden there's shadow comes over the top. [laughter] of us and it's Francis with.

his arms out like hey right it's like. what the hell when you get a natural 265. a guy's and shredded cutting weight to. make 265 that's yeah. >> I mean he's he there was many fights. where he was like 270 275 he would drop. a little bit of weight to make the 260. which is also stupid. Why is there a 265. pound weight limit for the heavyweight. division? That's nuts. Isn't that nuts? >> Yeah, I know why. You know, that was. >> because you get those really big guys. >> It was Lorenzo, you know, Lorenzo was,

you know, looking at it saying, "Hey, I. don't want fat guys." Really, that's. what, you know, cuz you had. >> What about Roy? Big Country. Everybody. loved Big Country [laughter] when he. went in. >> But it was at the time in in MMA, you. had no weight limits. >> Roy was lovable to a point. >> Love Roy. >> No weight limits. And that whole thing. was he looked and said, "I don't want, you know, a bunch of fat guys. We got to. cut it off at a certain point because. I'm not going to have super heavyweight, >> you know, and he never they never did.". >> Well, not having super heavyweight is. fine, but merge it.

>> Yeah. >> It's it's ridiculous. If a guy is like. Valuev, remember Valuev, the Russian guy. with seven feet tall, fought Holyfield. >> LET HIM FIGHT. >> David David Haye beat him. Remember that. one? >> Oh, that's right. >> David Haye. >> And David Hay is a small heavyweight in. comparison. >> Oh, yeah. >> Holyfield beat him too, right? Didn't. Holyfield beat him? >> No, I don't think Holyfield didn't fight. Value. >> I think they did. >> Did they? >> I think they did. >> Look that one up. >> I think they did. >> I might be wrong. >> I don't think I I'm not sure Vander. fought him. David Haye beat him. I know. that. >> Might be wrong.

>> But. >> Oh, there they are. Yeah. >> Oh. >> Oh, that's him. >> Yeah. >> 2008. >> Crazy. And Vander Holivville was a. cruiserweight. Remember when he fought. Dwight Muhammad Kawi who was 5'7? >> Oh, yeah. >> Kawi was a 57 cruiserweight. He would. get underneath. He would be like moving. He was like, he was a nightmare to deal. with. >> He was he was a mini Joe Fraser, >> bro. He's a tank. >> That guy was And he would pull his. trunks way up to here, too. [laughter]. >> Holy, right. >> It was crazy. >> Oh, value of one.

>> Yeah. >> Major highly disputed. That's what it. is. >> Majority decision. That's where you get. a [ __ ] referee in your corner. >> That's when Look at the Look at the age. of Evander. >> Yes. >> 46, >> which is crazy. >> Yeah, it is crazy. It's crazy when you. see these guys that, you know, like, "Oh, wow. Yo Romero can do it." Okay, listen. >> He's a [laughter]. He is a distin Okay, this is where this. whole UFO thing comes in. [laughter]. >> And here here is the proof of Yes, there. are aliens and Yoel Romero is one of. them.

>> Okay, he is built differently than every. other human being on the face of this. >> I told this story before. I don't know. if you guys heard it, but this this. actually happened when the U one of his. fights he had broken into his orbital. The UFC brings him to a doctor. The. doctor says to him to the UFC, "Where. did you get this guy?" And they go, "He's pretty awesome, right?" He goes, "No, no, no. I've never seen a human. built like this before." They said, "His. tendons in his eye were three times. larger than a normal person's." They. said the orbital bone is already. healing. >> Like, this is crazy. I need no medicine.

>> So, then there's some questions. It's. like, you know, listen, the Cubans are. very connected to the Russians who are. very connected to science. >> Yeah. Well, >> it's wild. It has I mean you got to. think if you had a kid and you knew this. kid was going to be wrestling you bang. bang bang when he's [laughter] coming up. you could make a totally different kind. of kid. >> Oh. >> I remember I read a story about this guy. and his son started showing uh like uh. androgenic effects very early on. They. were they were freaked out like the kid. was get like his [clears throat] dick.

was growing. He's getting hair. They're. like what the [ __ ] is happening to this. baby? And they realized that the dad had. testosterone cream. So, the dad was. taking testosterone cream and he's. hugging the baby. >> and you know, bare chest to bare chest. >> It's transferring. >> It's He's literally juicing up his. [ __ ] kid. >> Have you Have you seen Andre Smay? >> Yes. >> Holy Jesus Christ. >> Jamie, pull up that guy. >> Huh? Who's this? >> Andre Smay is a He's a He's kind of a. hybrid. He's a bodybuilder, powerlter, strongman, arm wrestler.

>> Yeah. >> He's 350 lbs. I mean 20 27 inch arm. something like that. >> His hands hands are so big they look. like catcher mints. Look at his hands. You. >> have you heard you know what 2016 to. 2026. Look at the difference. 2016 look. a normal Look at his hands. >> Yeah. Look at his hands difference. >> His hands are huge because he growth. hormone. >> Oh yeah. He takes everything. He takes a. thousand units of growth hormone a day. That's 10 vials. >> What he does?

>> Yes. He's going to die. >> Whoa. You cannot take. >> That's insane. >> Yeah. >> A thousand. Oh my god. Look at the size. of him. >> That's so crazy. >> That dude does one arm pull-ups at 350. [laughter]. lbs. >> That's nuts. >> I mean, he is absolutely. >> And he's not And he has a regular job. >> He's 27 years old. Look at him. He looks. like he's 50. >> Yeah, he looks at least 50. And doesn't. he have a factory job? I think he has a. regular job. So, it's not even He's not. even doing it for money. >> Oh, no. >> But it's crazy when you see him when he.

was young. Like, look at that. That's. him. Y. >> that's the same guy. I mean that that. looks like a regular athlete. >> He is a regular athlete there. >> And then all of a sudden he becomes this. [ __ ] immense freak. >> He is a lot of testosterone to lose his. hair like that. He did everything. >> He's done everything there is. Whatever. you got, give me it. >> There's a lot of those dudes. Do you. know about that guy Tom Haval? >> Oh yeah. In Australia, do that. >> 6'8. >> That dude, you take you take a look at. him. He is he's unique in the fact he.

doesn't do the normal workouts and. stuff, right? He does basic farm stuff. He picks up, you know, things, farmer. walks with stuff that's ridiculously. >> He does like a lot of picks up axles and. weird [ __ ]. >> dude. But he's 6'8, let's say 330 lb, not trying to get to four. He was trying. to get to four, so he's in the 390s. He. was like, this is building up to 400 lb. but shredded. >> Jeez. >> And and preposterously strong. >> Yeah. >> Like farmers.

>> He's always he's always working out when. you can't see him. >> Yeah. You see his [clears throat] back. and he's always wearing clothes, which. is very odd. But there's photos of him. without the clothes. >> and it's almost like he's building a. masterpiece and he wants to reveal it. once he's done painting. >> Yeah. >> See if you can find some pictures of. what he actually looks like cuz there's. occasionally they show his body. He'll. show always takes all the stuff that's. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] bro. >> Wow. >> Look at him right there. >> Look at that. That's [ __ ] insane. >> Oh, he looks young. >> I don't think he's that old.

>> Yeah, he looks young. >> I think he's like maybe 30 or something. >> Damn. >> It's nuts. >> Yeah, he is. >> gigantic dude. 68 385. What the [ __ ]. What the [ __ ] Now imagine if he wanted. to fight MMA and they're like, "Well, sir, you've got to lose 110 pounds. [laughter]. >> [ __ ] off. That's crazy. [ __ ] you.". >> Okay, hold on. Hold on. Think about. this. Look at that. >> You're you're you're the heavyweight. that they want to put him against. Yes. There's a weight class. [laughter]. >> So, listen. I think this should be a 225. and then should be chaos. 225 and then.

chaos. >> I agree. You and let the freaks in. Let. them Iceland dudes in. Let them some of. the most entertaining fights in Pride, right, were the freak fights. >> Yeah. Well, here's the thing, though. That guy's going to melt your piss cup. >> Oh, yeah. >> 100%. >> So, just like in Pride, >> [ __ ] it. >> Just like in Pride. You [laughter] put. if you put that [ __ ] guy in like one. of them tester machines, it would ding. like one of those cartoon things where. you [ __ ] [laughter]. >> you hit him and he hits the bell. >> there there would be fireworks going off.

streamers coming that guy's on the net. >> Come on. But that's just like Pride, you. know. >> Yeah, exactly like Pride. >> God, Pride, everybody was juicing. >> They just had the enhanced games. >> I know. But only one only one world. record was broken in the 50 yard. >> Yeah. Yeah. Really? That was a 50 m. swim, >> but they were wearing a suit. >> He was wearing a suit that's illegal. >> Yeah, because it makes you slippery. >> Yeah. >> And it was a guy that had already beaten. the world record like I don't know a. couple years back. Somebody's beaten him. since. >> It's no one really. It wasn't that.

successful. And I talked to a friend of. mine about it and he was like, I think. first of all, they're not like. monitoring everything everyone's doing. They're not optimizing them. If you. really want to juice these people up, you can't let them do it themselves. You've got to have like a whole program. where you put them on this stuff. But. also like what are we Did you hear what. Did you hear the reason why they're. doing it? >> Why? >> They the whole thing is kind of like Red. Bull. You know how Red Bull does all the. crazy, you know, different stunt stuff. and everything. Their whole thing is. they are a they're a a company that.

gives out or, you know, puts out these. monthly things of TRT and all these. different, you know, things with. testosterone and stuff. So, they did. this whole thing as an advertisement. basically for people to see that being. enhanced is better and that you'll come. and now sign up for it's I think it's. $399 a month for your whole thing to be. able Yeah. $399. >> The enhanced program. >> There you go. It's the enhanced program. >> Okay. So, when did Thank you, Jamie. When we had them on, Jamie, did they.

bring this up? >> No, >> I don't think they did. Maybe they. adopted this later cuz we had them on. like about a year before they were going. to do the games. >> and they were tell and I was like let's. go. >> juice them up juice everybody up. [snorts]. >> Yeah. What about enhanced fight games? >> Yeah. >> Interesting. The Vtor Belelfford days. >> The whole qu the whole question is this. when you truly look at it because I look. and say look as long as you if you open. it up to everyone then it's someone's. choice. You're going to hear all that. thing. Well, you know, you can do it if. you want. You don't have to do it. But.

it's different when you're lifting a. weight or you're swimming in a pool, right? >> Or doing those things or you're beating. on another human being. >> It's just a there's a difference. You're. creating damage in the sport of fighting. >> 100%. >> Do you want to enhance someone. >> in being able to do that? >> You're also enhancing your ability to. take damage. You could take that into. consideration. You're you're going to. get hit with less shots because you're. going to have more endurance because. you're going to be on EPO. You're going. to have uh. >> That's always good for you, too.

>> Super good. >> The strokes that you get on EPO are the. best. [laughter]. >> But I mean, like I I got to think. there's a way to do all those things if. you're monitoring your blood work and. you're being very careful where you. don't go crazy like like the Russian. cat. >> Yeah. >> You know, people that's human nature. Yep. You're right. One step, take. another. >> Yep. Yeah, definitely. Yeah. And if that. guy has skills, imagine that guy. We're. like, >> "Oh my god.".

>> Imagine if you got Fedor and you go, "Bro, you want to keep fighting? >> I got 49, but listen, >> that's only [clears throat] that's only. biological. I can make you 32 again.". >> Yeah. We get you in a hyperbaric chamber. every day for 2 hours. And this is what. we're going to do. Testosterone in the. morning, testosterone at lunch, testosterone at night, >> and a little growth after. >> Oh, growth is all day long. You're. taking gross from the moment you wake. up. We're going to get you up to about. 290 shredded. >> We're going to peptide you. [laughter]. >> Yep.

>> I think part of. >> the attraction to Fedor though is his. his belly. >> 100%. >> You know, >> you lose that and I'm like, "Ah, >> I mean, imagine Lorenzo saying, "I don't. want fat guys to fight." And you see. Fedor, [laughter]. right? >> He did everything he could to get Fedor. >> Yeah. Well, they did. They really did. No, he did. I remember those days. There. was It was kind of crazy like the He was. negotiating with some dangerous. characters. Oh, yeah. And Dana's like, "We got to up our security. This is. getting [ __ ] this is getting heavy. with these guys." They wanted a piece of. the promotion. >> That was that was the whole everything. Everyone talks about that and stuff.

Look, it wasn't it wasn't Fedor. >> You know, Fedor would have fought for. anyone. And it wasn't the price of what, you know, he wanted for money. It was. >> M1 was associated. Vadimm Finkelstein. was. >> Fedor's manager. He had M1 and he wanted. a co-promotion. >> Yeah. >> With UFC and the UFC's No. >> Yeah. >> We can't do that. That's the one thing. we can't do. And that was that was the. end all right there. >> Yeah. Which is unfortunate, right? Because we missed out on the greatest. matchup of all time between Prime Kane. and Prime Fedor.

>> Yeah. >> Prime Kane and Prime Fedor would have. been [ __ ] nuts. >> Yeah. Nuts. I mean, absolutely nuts. >> Nobody had a gas tank like T Kane. Nobody. I just talked to him yesterday, Kane, and I was just talking to him. about I said, "If there's one fight you. could come back for," and he's like, "Uh, >> you know, I'm really really like he's. not he's just he's completely checked. out of the fight thing, but I was like, >> no, he's not checked out fighting. I. mean, he's doing a great job of training. guys to me. >> He's back doing it. >> He's not. >> He's not. >> No, he's not. Uhuh. Just talk to He was. just I was just at the at the fights.

>> He's just like, "No, I'm kind of like. just disconnected. Like, it's He's just. trying to get his life back.". >> Well, understandable. >> Yeah. Understandable. That's the one. fight I said if there was one fight I. could pick for you, it'd be Fedor. It'd. be That'd be the one fight I'd want to. see out of him. >> We missed that. >> It's funny because everyone. [clears throat] talks I agree with you. completely. Everyone talks about, you. know, the fight that they would have put. together would have been Brock. >> against Fedor. >> Yeah. >> And I look and I go, "Yeah, it's. probably not that good of a fight.". >> Yeah. It's like Brock would had such a.

hard time standing up with that guy. >> Yeah. Fedor. Well, the a good example. like the Brock fight to me that was like. kind of the craziest fight was Alistar. was juicy. >> Uber. >> Uber. The most juicy he ever. >> That wasn't juice. That was horse meat. >> That was everything. [laughter]. >> That was horse meat. He definitely ate. some horse meat. >> Oh, yeah. But there was no doubt about. it. >> He was also eating pills. >> That guy. >> There was a lot going on. But he was a. monster. >> He was huge. >> World class kickboxing. >> You see him now? >> Yeah. He's like a vegan now. >> He doesn't look anything like he did.

>> He looks like he did. He's back to his. pride days. Slowing down, looking good. >> Back to his supermodel days. >> Good for health. >> By the way, that guy's been KO'ed a ton. of times. Seems fine. Like he did the. commentary during the Usyk fight, the. Rico fight, and it was like the guy is. [ __ ] talking great. He's like smooth. and articulate. >> It's not everyone gets affected the same. way, right? And it is, you know, there. is you there's little factors and you. can see the difference. There are guys, you know, that are been boxers with 70. professional fights. They do. They talk.

fine. Everything's good. >> There's also a gene. Um I think it's. called APOE4. Um and if you have that, like what is it? How does it work? If. you have it, you're protected or if you. have it, you have the problem. So. there's one there's one gene expression. that makes you more likely to get CTE. >> Yeah. >> For whatever reason. >> Yeah. >> What is it? Was it put that into. perplexity and see what it says about. >> there's a gene that you have in your. body that. >> Yeah. Some people have it and some. people don't. And if if you have the.

whatever it is, whether it's a gene. expression, I'm a [ __ ] I'm not the guy. to talk about this, but Dr. Rhonda. Patrick talked about this. And she was. saying essentially that if you have. this, here it is. APO4 appears to. increase the risk of severity of chronic. traumatic andphalopathy. >> uh in people with significant repetitive. head impacts, but is a modifier of risk, not a cause by itself. >> So meaning obviously. >> if you have it and you're not taking. head shots, you're okay. It doesn't do. anything, >> right? But if you have it, >> Yeah. So, scroll back up again, please.

A large postmortem study of 364 people. with RH1294 with CTE 70 without carrying. APOE4 was associated with more. [clears throat] advanced CTE stage and. higher tow protein burden in the frontal. lobe, >> but mainly in those old older than 65. That's just because they haven't been. testing all the MMA fighters. Yeah. Or. all the boxers, >> you know, because like if you really. you're just testing regular folks or. football players probably, it's like. football players is probably in the. country the most people that have had.

trauma. >> Absolutely. >> Cuz you think about high school kids, even junior high kids, they're Yeah. I. mean, they did a study of I forget how. many different people, but they found. that everyone, it was like nine out of. 10 had it in every group, whether it was. high school kids, college kids, some. level of CTE, >> which is nuts. >> Yeah. >> Not just NFL, not just college, high. school kids. >> This everything everything that we've. learned and we know today comparatively.

I'm from here I'm going to uh Florida. for the association of ringside. physicians. They have their annual. conference and they put on all these. different things and we, you know, put. together programs for down fighter. things and all this stuff, but we know. so much more now. Joe, it used to be, you know, I would go and and do a a. presentation for him and it was, you. know, one of one of the first things, you know, when I first did it, I asked. him a question. The real simple question. was, "Let me ask you this. If if a guy. gets hit with a shot, boom, and he's out.

going down and he hits the ground and. the fighter comes in and hits him with a. shot, is it possible for him to hit him. with a shot and actually wake him back. up? Every one of them back then, no, that's impossible. All it will do is. intensify the effects of the first shot, all this stuff. And I took a DVD. I. said, "Let's watch." [laughter]. >> What fight did you use as an example? Oh, dude. I I had a bunch, you know, and. it was a matter of it was trying to show. them, hey, all these things that we. think are just not true, okay? When when.

we have to we have to branch out and. start to figure this stuff out a little. bit more because it, you know, in boxing. it's different because boxing. establishes time for me to make. decisions. MMA takes that time away. because I have a fighter that is now. instead of walking towards or, you know, trotting towards a neutral corner or. something like that, they're trotting. towards that person to do more damage to. them. And so you're making that quicker. decision. And, you know, we've had too. many fights where we have someone that, you know, they're out going down.

>> and then hit the ground and they're and. you have to [snorts] actually wait. You. know, I I just had, you know, one in. last week with Jason Jackson is fighting. uh his opponent JeffRaton andraton gets. hit and he's going down and I'm going in. to stop it and I see he starts sitting. up and I go, I got to wait. >> And it's like, I don't want to wait. Don't sit up. >> and he's comes back, boom, hits him, goes out, I stop it. But it's like those. are the ones that you look at and you go. man to understand the way the human.

body, everyone responds differently in. certain situations. But we've learned. more as far as the human body will do. weird things in traumatic situations and. it is the ability to hit someone and to. take those synapses that are connected. and to separate them. There is no. difference in being able to hit them and. putting them back. >> They can get snapped the same way. Yeah. Crazy [clears throat] in the nuts. >> In the Hermes Francis fight in UFC 4, I. think 46. >> Jesus Christ, don't go back too far.

>> Yeah, too far. But [laughter] I we're in. the third round, I catch his leg and he. throws a little loopy shot and drops me. I have the leg in my hand and I'm just. going I can see my face headed towards. the canvas. My eyes are wide open, but I. can't put my hands in front of my face. My face bounces off the canvas. It wakes. me up and then I start fishing for legs. >> Wow. >> It was just I can see everything. I can. hear everything. I just couldn't put my. hands in front of my face. and my face. hits the canvas. I wake back up and he. starts jumping on me. I start trying to. fish for legs and trying to get to guard. and that's how that goes.

>> Wow. >> The first thought to go through his. head. So, I hope I didn't damage my face. because I'm so good-looking. Right. [laughter]. >> Jealous. It is a problem. >> Jealous. Guy's jealous over here. I told. you the whole time. >> But actually, you violated the. stereotype that good-looking guys can't. fight. >> Oh, [laughter] yeah. >> There was a little bit of a stereotype. that good-looking guys when push comes. to shove, they're going to fall apart. cuz they're too good-look. They don't. want to get [ __ ] up. >> I don't think so. >> Not true. I've seen [laughter] I've seen. I've seen too many good looking guys. >> Look at Rico. Look at Rico. >> Verhovven's a [ __ ] model. Beautiful. man. >> That guy came to AK and trained with. Kane in DC for a couple weeks. That.

guy's a [ __ ] murderer. >> Oh yeah. >> He's a murderer. And like when we were. talking about earlier about the fight. and him the bo his boxing is really. good. His cardio like you guys were. talking about is fantastic. But man, he. has no fear of being taken down. He has. no fear of any of these guys. Kane and. DC didn't care. He didn't. He would. fight them to the death on defending. takedowns. They were like, "Man, DC was. the. as soon as they got they touched gloves, he would just right to the legs." You. know, almost the UFC. >> Yeah.

>> They offered him Derrick Lewis, but then. the Usyk fight came up. >> and it was like, listen, this is $15. million. >> Oh, yeah. >> $15 million. And look what happened. >> I mean, amazing choice because in most. people's eyes, he won most of the rounds. of that fight. >> Go back and look at some of the fights. that one right there. Okay, you now it's. the most recent. Look at Francis Enano. against Tyson Fury. Y. >> and look at the scoring on that one. Go. back to Conor McGregor versus Mayweather. because no matter what you want to say,

Connor won the first couple rounds cuz. Mayweather didn't throw any punches. You. you don't this whole thing about oh your. general ringmanship [ __ ]. >> You're not throwing punches. You're not. winning a fight. Okay, it's a fight. It's not a dance. It's not how pretty. you look. And so you can go back and and. I can tell you look I've talked with. some of the judges off of the Mayweather. McGregor. They go I made I made a. mistake. I made I gave credit where I. shouldn't have given credit. It's like. how. >> interesting. You know. >> I think it's easier for the heavier. weights though to go up to boxing and.

have a little bit more success than it. would be for the smaller guys like I to. fight Bud Crawford. >> Oh [snorts] no no stop. >> You know what I mean? Like that's my. point. The level of boxing talent there. with Bud and and it's not it's not even. close. It's not even close. >> Bud's one of the greatest ever. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. >> And he could be if he just went into. boxing. I mean, the [ __ ] hands are. insane. >> Bud Crawford could go to MMA. That dude. can wrestle, >> right? >> Okay. So, I would love I mean, obviously.

not going to happen just because of the. money you can make. Boxing is not the. same as. >> And also, he's another guy that's like, I'm done. >> I don't have to do this anymore. Oh, dude. >> I did all that I had wanted to do. Multiple division weight champion, undefeated. Bye. made a ton of money. See y. >> beat Canelo and boxed the brakes off the. ears off of him. Exactly. >> Crazy. When he was when he was pity. punching him and then hitting him with. big shots like that's what you do to. someone when you're playing. >> He had Canelo so absolutely frustrated.

>> during that fight. But I I remember you. watch I was in New York Gleason's gym. Terrence Crawford is there and he is. boxing all these guys in and just. playing just absolutely you know come on. next one boom go and touch touch he. never tried to hurt any of them never. tried to throw a big punch you just look. and you go. >> how good is this guy he is that you know. he's that guy. >> one of the best switch hitters to ever. do it in my opinion it's like him and. Haggler they're like right there.

together switch hitters. >> he could box you southpaw and also. sudden he's orthodox and you're like, "Oh, no.". >> And dude, the the funny part about him. is, you know, you see it in MMA, guys. will switch when they take a step and. throw a punch, they'll switch to a. different, >> you know, he does the same thing and he. does it and then takes a lateral. movement that had Canelo like where the. hell is he and he's going, "Hi, Bap.". You know, and you go, "Oh my god, he's. so goddamn good.". >> He hit Canelo with a straight left and. then Canelo went to counter and he had.

the the hand still out there and he. threw it turned it into a left hook. >> Yeah. And I was like, "Good lord, >> it was so pretty." You could see Canel's. like, "Here I come back." Bang. >> He gets dinged with the left hook. I'm. like, "That is crazy speed and precision. and technique.". >> I've said this before. I've spar with. Robert Ghost Robert the Ghost Guerrero. and cuz he lived in Gilroy and we would. train together all the time. He would. use me for the I'd be in fight shape, ready for my UFC fight. >> Stretch his son's fight. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Just literally I'd show up. I was the. first four rounds of a 12 round session.

and he a new new training partner every. four rounds. This guy would just piece. me up. He would just toy with me and it. was embarrassing. I'm like I'm in the. best shape of my life. But I by round. four I was exhausted and he was barely. touching me because touch touch move. Slip out the side. Slip out the side. So. good. And he wasn't and he wasn't at. Mayweather's level. He's fought. Mayweather, but like he wasn't that. level of slickness, but he made it look. like it when I was in there with him. >> It's all in comparison. >> So good. >> I mean there's guys that look like look. at Jack Dela Matalena when he fought. Carlos Pratz. You're like jock de la is.

one of the scariest strikers in the. sport and then he fights protest. You're. like oh. >> oh there is a difference. >> levels there's what you try to and. everyone's get has this idea we talk. about it all the time and I go you don't. understand the difference this much. makes. >> in the difference of how you compare in. a fight with somebody. >> levels. >> Oh my god. >> levels. Especially when you get a guy. like Protest that had so many highlevel. Muay Thai fights. That's the big. difference. these guys that with only. striking they develop an understanding.

of positions and technique that's just. not available if you're training the. other stuff too and so then they get to. this like Pereira they get to this super. high level at this one thing and then. they incorporate the other stuff but. that other you're not going to catch. them you're not going to catch Pes when. it comes to Muay Thai that step in. [ __ ] tomahawk elbow that he does holy. [ __ ] dude. >> and he's playing and he smokes marbaros. and he drinks he smokes marbaros in the. back, >> bro. It's crazy. He's getting ready to.

fight and he's smoking blunts. >> What was the guy that fought De La Hoya. that would come out smoking cigarettes? >> Mayorg. mean Mayorgga was never at the level of. Pratz. Pratz like is so [ __ ] slick, man. Some of the [ __ ] that he was doing. to JDM, like JDM is a [ __ ] killer. >> and he had no success. >> He was drowning. >> He was drowning. And it was it's also. like what is going on with his limbs? Why are they so big? [laughter]. It's like crazy. Like he says he's 6'.

one. The [ __ ] out of here, bro. I want. to I want to measure your your height. and your length cuz I think there's some. [ __ ]. >> Yeah. He's just all length. >> I think he did this for his reach. Like. [laughter] just his reach is nuts. When. you see him in there, he's like all arms. and legs. And the technique is so. beautiful. It's so beautiful. the setups. when he when you think he's punching, he's kicking the [ __ ] out of your calf. and he's like slowly breaking you down. Slowly breaking and the the knee that. [ __ ] knee that comes out like a jab.

His knee is nuts, man. >> And you go back to his fight with Gary, >> you know, and you look at, you know, Gary was doing great that last round. >> Yeah. >> You know, he came he came back on it and. you look and you go, >> if this was five rounds, it'd be a real. problem. >> Hello. >> But it also shows you how [ __ ] good. Ian Gary is. >> Oh, absolutely. That that's the whole. point. That shows how good he is because. he has gone against. >> guys that are a real problem as far as. stylistically. >> You know, his fight against MVP, >> he Gary did, you know, fought as smart.

as you could fight and did a wonderful. job in showing, hey, I'm multiaceted. I'm not just, you know, this one style. fighter. >> With Pes when he when he knocked out. Leon Edwards, I was like, oh, I I knew. he was really elite, but I'm like, Leon's so technical and he's so slick. Like if it's just and protest is not. going to try to take him down. I'm like. this is going to be a very interesting. fight. But it wasn't. It was it was. Kate's show. He put on a [ __ ] show. >> The relaxation, the comfortness of being. out there. Also too, Leon understanding.

like I was the champion. I'm not the. champion. It's hard to get back there. The mindset has changed a lot for us. >> It's been hard for Leon ever since he. when he lost that that title fight. against. >> Muhammad. And you look in everything. that's happened to him since, it's just, you know, confidence is everything. >> Yeah. Well, the Shawn Brady fight might. have been even more. >> brutal than that, cuz Shawn just mauled. him. Mauled him. When Shawn gets on top. of people, like what he did to walking. Buckley was bananas. >> No, it wasn't. I I look at that, and. this is why Shawn Brady won against.

Craig Jones. Okay, now it was an. advantage as far as win, but he grappled. against the real Craig Jones and showed. that he can stay with him. You know, in. that poor, >> but you know, in that match, Craig was. not allowed to use leg locks. You know. that, right? That's that's a that that's. crazy. That's a big That's like fighting. Ernesto Hoost and you only can kick. above the waist. You know what I'm. saying? >> That's if you're Rick Rufus, that's a. smart idea. >> Yeah. If you're [laughter] Yeah. But you. know what I'm saying? It's like that. Craig Jones like you got to give him his. full game. You can't [clears throat].

have him thinking, "Oh, I can't do. this." You take away 50% of his attacks, >> but. he is elite elite. But it was just the. ability to hold him down was just. shocking. >> I mean, it's like God. And then when he. was mounting him and just like he was. doing drills. It wasn't he was just like. staying calm and just bang bang bang. It. was like he was doing conditioning. drills on a heavy bag. Like he was just. sitting on a heavy bag pounding on the. back time. >> He was nuts. I said this maybe I caught. some flack for it a little bit but I.

said like look I think the Ian Gary. fight and the protest fight for Islam. both those fights I'm not saying they're. easy fights cuz they're not. But you put. you put someone like a Shawn Brady. against Islam and that becomes a little. more problem. A little bit more. difficult difference. Big difference. Style styles make matchups. >> Styles make matchups and they when you. look at someone's style comparatively, it can one person is easy for someone. where they're very difficult for someone. else. >> If you're going to put someone against. Islam as far as it's going to be on the.

ground with him and give him difficult. times, >> there's not a big enough there's not a. big enough sample size for me with. Michael Morales. I think Michael Morales. could be a big threat on the feet. The. wrestling. >> people are gonna say, "Well, he beat he. beat Shawn Brady, so obviously. >> stopped him.". >> Yeah. Yeah. But the the size I think of. Michael Morales will give Islam some. problems as well. >> And Michael Morales can [ __ ] wrestle, right? It's not like. >> he's Ecuadorian national champ, I think, is what he was. And then, you know, he's. obviously got power, >> athletic, super athletic. >> Islam doesn't do the normal wrestling. >> Nope. >> His takedowns are different. Y. >> a lot of lot of foot sweeps, a lot of.

judo, a lot of difference in the way he. does things. and world championship. experience and also the years of. training with Kabib. >> Yeah. >> Years. >> What he does so well is he does it off a. transition. As soon as you punch you. guys anywhere inside the clinch, he's. already hitting the foot sweep into the. inside trip. Can't get it. Okay, I'll. hit I'll drop down on a single or a. double. >> You know I'm excited about it. 170 is. Amos. >> Oh, dude. >> That Ukrainian cat. >> Oh, [laughter]. the. course you know. He's good. He is.

absolutely the real deal. >> Yeah, >> he is good everywhere. >> Everywhere. >> And his his look, his wrestling and his. grappling ability, his submission. ability is at the top of the It's right. there with Shawn Brady. >> Am I lying? >> No, no, it is. It is. I just There's one. guy out there though, and he was just. talking about him. He's the one guy that. he lost to who's not signed by the UFC, and that's Jason. >> Jackson. He's the one guy to beat him. I'd love to see Jason Jackson in the. UFC. >> Where's Jason now? >> He just fought an MVP. not an MVP. >> One one in like 10 seconds.

>> 22 seconds. >> I had a hard night. I had 22 seconds and. 17. It was very difficult. I was. exhausted. [laughter]. >> But he's the only one he's the only guy. to beat yaw. He is. Wow. >> He's fantastic on the feet. He has a. wrestling background, but he chooses to. stand. He's got like 30 jobs, a coconut. stand, car wash. He works. He works. [laughter] He's a working man. >> He's a working man. But um. >> he's very talented. I love watching that. guy fight. I think him, you add him. against a practice or against a Ian. Gary, these guys would duke it out. It.

would be a great fight. >> It's interesting when there's guys that. are at that level that aren't known. >> Yeah. >> And he's a former champion. Jason. Jason's been there. He was, you know, you got to figure he was in the UFC as. far as the the Ultimate Fighter when. they did that whole Black Zillians. versus AT. >> Oh, that's right. >> You know, he was part of that. >> That's right. you know, and and he he's. just always been on the cusp of being. brought back in and then not and you. look and you go, he's got all the talent. in the world and he's tough as hell. He'll fight. >> He is tough, >> you know. So,

>> who is that cap, that heavyweight that. just knocked out Hannon Ferrer in. >> Oh, that's uh Sergey Bilstino. >> and he's one of Fedor's boys, right? Is. he is. >> he is now. Yeah, >> that dude. >> Yeah, >> that dude's. Dude, that dude is yolked. >> Yolked and moves fast. He's fast and. he's got power. >> But then you also got Nemov. >> Nemco's at heavyweight now. >> Yeah. Veim Nemov. >> He's another guy that's at the top of. the heat, but not in the UFC. >> Vim Nemkov is good. And man, he is.

>> extremely athletic. He's not going to. he's not a big heavyweight. He's got. great lateral movement. He's really good. with his hands, beautiful kicks. >> Yeah, he was a 205. now. >> And he can wrestle. He chooses to stand, but he'll mix up the wrestling and kind. of get you get you guessing. >> But he's another Fedor guy. He's another. Fedor guy. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean, that's another one. I. mean, training under Kabib, I mean, if. you're a Russian guy training under. Fedor, like good lord. Like, what a what. a crazy opportunity. >> Yeah. But you got to live in Stio. School. >> Do you really? That's where they live.

>> That's where they live, man. >> Oh, boy. >> Oh, yeah. >> They No parties there. >> Nope. [laughter]. Nope. >> You better have snow tires, too. >> Oh, yes, you better. [laughter]. Thick clothing. Thick. >> thick clothing, snow tires, and hate. comfort. You're sleeping on a futon, [ __ ] Yeah, there's a lot of talented. guys that will come out of other. promotions, but I just I'd love to see. Jason Jackson in there mixing it up with. those guys. Stylistically, the matchups. are there with Protis and Gary and. >> the one 70s right now and putting Yaros.

when the UFC finally signed him. I said, "Thank God. Thank God, >> you know, he deserves to be there and. they need, you know, that kind of." And. look, he's gone in and proven, you know, dude, his fight against Joel Alvarez, >> Joel Alvarez is a good fighter. I mean, he made him look absolutely like the guy. didn't know hardly anything. >> Yeah, I watched it yesterday. I watched. it again yesterday. >> I mean, you just w the last taked down, you know, when he. >> when he airbored him. >> Oh my god. [laughter]. >> And you look at you and but look at the.

ease that he did it with. That's the. thing. >> Spectacular technique. >> Oh my god. His technique, [clears throat] the tightness of his. grappling. >> See, and his his training partner is. Johnny Evelyn. >> Ah. >> Ah. same guy that's training partner now. for Sean Strickland. >> Those guys go after each other daily. >> And Johnny will tell you, he's the one. that gives him the most fits inside the. gym. The one that I spar with the most, the one that just gives me all the fits. on the grappling, the wrestling, all. those things. Go back to his his fights. too in the past when he fought Ed Ruth.

>> He hip tossed Ed, took Ed Ruth down. Three time national [clears throat]. champ out of out of Penn State. I mean, he was having success against him. It. was a very close fight, you know, and he. ended up winning the fight, but it was. one of those fights you're like, damn, you walked away going, "This guy can. wrestle. This guy can stand. He's got. He's chasing submissions. He's trying to. get finishes." I mean, he had takedowns. against Logan Storyley, a six-time state. champ out of uh four time all-American. out of South Minnesota. Just phenomenal, phenomenal wrestler, but he's able to. have exchanges with these guys, chasing.

anacondas, dars, knee bars, everything. Extremely talented. There's a lot of. guys that I would love to see to kind of. mix in cuz every time because when you. look at the history of the sport, >> you got like Strike Force when it came. into to UFC, those were the best fights. and you start pulling plucking. I'm not. saying that a lot of these guys need to. come in right now, but if you can pluck. one or two guys for each division. loosening this whole thing up because. for a little bit before the Paramount. deal happened, >> you know, because I cover this I cover. it every fight every week, right? And we. talk about on the pod. It just simply.

put everyone's like, man, these fights. are trash. They're garbage. resisting. that I'm like guys are being complainers. like this. The cards are great. You guys. are just they're used to that that the. next level of like the the Connors and. the outs. on every just technique and just. fighting ability. There's some amazing. fights out there. >> When you add in someone like when. Michael Chandler came in, there was a. lot of hype around it. When Patricio. came in and and uh Aaron Pico when they. came in, there's a lot of hype around. it. It kind of puts a little shot in the. arm into the weight class and gets.

everyone amped up. the fighters that are. there at the UFC, they're like, "This. guy ain't [ __ ] beating me. I'm not. letting this bomb from this other. promotion beat me." And then the. fighters that are coming in are like, "No, I'm I'm here to shoot. I'm here to. prove that I deserve to be here." So, it. it kind of it gets the fans amped up. It. gets the promotion amped up and the. division's kind of gets a little little. bit of a spark. So, I'd love to see that. happen a little bit more. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. You know, the. Pico thing is really interesting. It's. like his last fight, he looks so tight. against Pitbull. Yeah, >> he looks so good. Everything looks so.

smooth. Like his boxing was flowing. His. transitions to grappling was flowing. He. fought intelligently. Like that's the. Pico that we needed to see. >> Yeah. But you you take a look at his. first fight against Lone. And I always. say that was that was a Pico that was. pressing. >> Y. >> he was pressing that fight and making. you know look at taking chances. >> Too obvious absolutely that he's coming. and you look and you go, "This is the. difference between, you know, that first. fight in the UFC and wanting to do so.

well and wanting to prove how good you. are and stuff and then finally relaxing. and just, hey, let the fight come to me. Let me show what I can do." And taking. those moments when you get him. That's. what he did in his fight against. Patriceio. And look, Patriceio is good. And and Pico Pico could be so good. He. just has to relax. He's still young. fighting. Oh, yeah. He's had a bunch of. pretty bad KO. >> Yes, he has. Borax one. >> and that's a problem. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Boris, you had the one against. freaking uh Corales.

>> Yeah. >> He hurt Carales and then he got, you. know, starched. >> He's had a couple of them, man. >> And both those fights he was winning and. that's the thing is he was winning both. He's he's beating Boric and then he was. beating Carales. >> He the fights that he lost. I mean, >> so hyperaggressive and that's part of. the problem. But it's also because he's. he's so [ __ ] good. >> But he's got the best left hook to the. body since Paul Daly. >> Oh, it's so smooth. >> Oh my god, it's beautiful. >> I mean, his just his left hook period, it's like such a whip. The technique is. so smooth. It's so nice. >> So, I got to ask you about the Joe. Schilling fight because uh there was it.

was such a weird stoppage where Joe just. decided that's it. I'm quitting. So, his. opponent headbutts him. >> Yeah. >> And then Mike Beltron, who's a great. referee, >> takes a point away. >> He did take a point. >> and then puts him right back in the same. position. >> Okay, stop. That's not exactly what. happened in No. Well, it is what. happened. Yes, you're right. But when when you have a situation like. that and you have the headbutt, Mike. Beltrin calls a stop, calls timeout, right? Gets him up off of their feet and. tries to put Joe's pissed and and I.

understand why Joe's pissed, you know? He's saying, "Hey, you first off, Joe's. 42 years of age. He doesn't come there. to be fouled. He's trying to, you know, he's going to fight, okay? You know, and. and the whole thing is look at the look. where his look where his hands are. They're over hooked right now. Okay. The. other guy's got his hands on the ground, >> right? >> Okay. So, you know, you don't want your. hands on the ground. Okay. So, Joe's in. a in a decent part to at least if he. wants to defend himself. >> So, when he gets up, he's pissed off and.

everything. And then Beltran takes a. point from the opponent. >> and asks Joe, do you want to be you want. to stand up or do you want back on the. ground? And Joe picked, I want to be. back on the ground. >> Okay. Why do you give your why do you. why are you allowed to make a decision? >> You're allowed to make the decision. because you were the one that was fouled. in a normal situation. >> He said, "I want to be back on the. ground.". >> He said, "I want to be back on the. ground.". >> That seems crazy. >> I agree with you. It's not what you. would expect out of Joe Schilling.

>> World class world champion kickboxer. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> And so you with that, you got to, you. know, he's the one foul. If the person. on top is the one fouling, normally. we're going to say they're going to lose. their position. But there are many. grapplers and people that have a hard. time getting that person down. And so we. we went back to saying, "All right, we're going to give the person who was. fouled the opportunity to make a. decision." Normally, we're going to put. it back on the feet, >> but if you want to put it back on the. ground, I'll put it back there, but. you're going to be in the same position.

as you were when the foul occurred, >> right? >> And that's what Mike Beltran went to do. And so he put starts to put him back. Uh, you have Abana is the opponent and. he starts to put his hands on Joe's. biceps. If you watch when they start to. >> when they put him back on. >> put him back on the ground. >> Joe tries to do the over hook. You saw. the over hook and Abain starts to put. his hand on the biceps. >> He did on the left bicep, right? >> Yeah. And so it's not a matter of, you. know, Belchan wasn't there to start the.

fight yet. He's got to put him in that. position. But Joe, once that bicep thing. started happening, he got mad and he. said, "I'm done. I, you know, stop the. fight." You can't make somebody fight. If someone says, "I, you know, I I want. out of the fight." They're out of the. fight. So, Beltran was in a position. where he says he wants out of the fight, he's he started, he fouled me. And. that's what he's saying. And now he. feels like he's not going to be put back. in that same position, but he hadn't. been. It's not like Beltran started it. He's trying to put him back in the same.

position when Joe's kind of just losing. his losing his steam and getting pissed. off. And so, you know, I look and say, look, if you're going to be that pissed. off, it's a good thing you're not. fighting because you don't fight smart. and you're going to end up getting hurt. But he's the one that decided that. So, >> so he has he clearly has two over hooks. at the end of the fight. >> at at the at the time of the foul. He's. got an over hook. >> both sides. >> Yeah. Well, sort of. The right one's not. totally over, >> but but he's holding the back of the. triceps. So, you're going to say, "Okay,

>> so that's where he's at. Look where the. opponent's hands are at. Opponent's. hands are under his shoulders.". >> Yeah. >> Okay. So, that's where that's how you. should start. >> That's where it should be started. >> But he never gave Beltran the actual. ability and time to say, "No, no, put. your hand here." And you can see Beltran. starts to, >> you know, as Abana starts to try to put. his hands on the biceps, Beltran. starting to put them under underneath. So, it's not. >> want to go back to the ground. >> Uh, you know, that's the real question. And and you know, all I know is at 42.

years of age, you know, you're looking. and saying, you know, Joe Schilling can. fight. You know, Joe Schilling, he was. he was a gangster. No doubt about it. And he [snorts] at this point is, you. know, is he looking to to, you know, become a champion? No, he's not looking. to be a champion. So, I'm taking the. fight for what reason? For money. And so. I think he just looked at it and and. based upon well this is not what I. expected. I expected a fair fight. I. expected us to you know fight like. professionals and this [ __ ] is now. headbutting me. He just got pissed and.

he lost his cool with it. And when he. wasn't being put back right away into. that same position where he thought the. guy is now trying to up again take. another advantage. >> It just set him off the end and he said. I'm done. >> Right. He just got too emotional. >> He got too emotional with it. >> That's a bummer. Yeah, it is because. Joe's a great guy. >> When you fought at the level he's fought. at, you expect a certain level of. professionalism. And when you have these. young guys that come in, there's no It. feels a little disrespectful. Like, you. knew where you were at. Why are you. trying to game the system right now? >> Just headbutted him, >> which is crazy.

>> Well, there's a lot of people saying, well, you know, I don't think it really. hit him. It hit him in the jaw. Okay. It. didn't hit him headto head. And you're. not allowed to use your head as a. striking instrument. It's a foul. >> And it's pretty clear that he was trying. to do that. It wasn't as simple as like. positioning his head to try to get a. better. >> look. We say you can use your head as a. steering instrument, as a third arm. You. can press with it. You can do a lot of. uncomfortable things with it. You cannot. pick it up and bring it back to strike. >> And it was clear that that's what he. did. >> That's exactly what he did. >> I think it's just very awkward for a lot. of people that see Joe Schilling in his.

past fights. He's been through it all. And then for him to get super frustrated. this way. It was a lot of people. question. I'm like, I don't question at. all because you expect, like I said, a. certain level of professionals. I'm. like, we know that we're both going out. there to fight and knock each other out. Why do you got to cheat? >> Yeah. There's there's a certain there's. a certain set of rules that we're doing. this under, right? >> And now you're taking those rules and. just tossing them to the side like, >> you know, this doesn't mean something. No, it means something to me. You know, I'm 42 years of age and I don't expect. someone to be fouling me just on. purpose. And then look, the whole no.

matter what that was, you know, right. now we use intent. Okay, that was. intentional, >> right? >> He did something. I call it malicious. It's a malicious attack on him. You. know, you're maliciously trying to. inflict an injury on someone through a. foul. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No doubt. >> Did you watch the MVP fights? >> Yes. >> What was your takeaway on that? >> Um, >> the overall card as well as the Gina. and, you know, and Rhonda fight. >> I mean, look, when you're coming in as. your first time putting on a promotion,

there's no way it's all going to be. smooth. It's not possible. You know, it's just there's no way. you you're. also you're not dealing with the same. caliber of names other than Gina and. Rhonda. >> and Francis. You know, the Mike Perry. Nate Diaz fight was. um when was the last time Nate fought. MMA. >> It's been a while. >> Probably six years a while. Somewhere around there, >> which is kind of crazy, right? And Mike. has been fighting bare knuckle and.

[ __ ] people up for quite a while, >> you know? >> Dude, he's an animal, dude. >> He's He's found his sport though. >> 2022, so four years ago. >> Four years ago, he beat Tony Ferguson. >> But he's found his way. This is This is. stylistically his. >> the best thing he could do for his. career is fight bare knuckle, fight. fight fight boxing. This is the best. thing for him. >> And Mike is like uniquely talented at. bare knuckle. Oh, like uniquely. >> He's Look, I'm being honest. I used him. as my my demonstrator for, you know,

Andy Foster is the executive officer in. California and he didn't like bare. knuckle. >> You know, I wrote the rules for bare. knuckle long ago. Dave Felman came to me. and said, "Hey, you know, I need I need. rules written for me. I'm trying to. legalize this. Uh, you know, someone. someone that I knew hooked hooked him up. with me and I said, "Look, I'll write. your rules." I go, and I gave him two. prices. I said, "I'm I'm not doing it. for free. It's too much of a pain in the. ass. >> [laughter]. >> So, here's my two prices. My one price. is you don't say who wrote them and you.

just use them. And the other price is. you say who wrote and it was because I. knew I was going to get in trouble for. doing [clears throat] this and you know, oh, what does John McCarthy think he's. doing now? He's writing rules for that. >> Did you write the rules for slap fights? >> No, I don't [laughter] like fights. I. hate I hate those. >> But so, >> you can't defend yourself. That's it. That's the [laughter] only [ __ ] rule. >> Dumbest thing ever. >> So, you're crazy. Have you seen the. other where they just run at each other? >> Oh no, that's even worse. They're like, "Hold my beer." You [laughter] think. slap fighting's [ __ ] Hold my beer.

We're just going to run at each other. >> It's called That's what it's called. Run. it. >> Right. Those things are crazy. >> It's crazy. >> But the the whole thing with, you know, the Mike Perry thing is, you know, trying to get athletic commissions to. start to understand because they're all. into this thing, Joe. It's like you take. a look at MMA. I'm allowed to hit you. with a shin to the dome like you talked. about. You know, I'm allowed to take my. knee and hit it to your dome. I'm. allowed to take my elbow and smash you, you know, even when your head's against. the ground. I'm allowed to do all these. things, >> but my bare fist is the big problem,

right? Kind of funny. Oh, it's. ridiculous. But it's perception. And. perception is it's a real problem. because people believe what they're. saying. Oh, it's horrible. >> So, you know, Andy Foster was one of the. ones that he I don't he he didn't like. it. And I said, Andy, you know, I tried. saying it's go through those whole. things with the shin, the knee, the. elbow. And he goes, "Yeah, I know." No, he says, "I just don't I don't like it.". I said, "Annie, I need you to look at it. this way then." I go, "There are people. out there that are made for boxing. Floyd Mayweather, Terrence Crawford,

Canelo Alvarez, they're made to be a. boxer. They have all this technical. skill. You know what? They're just. unbelievable." I said, "There's these. guys." Same thing in MMA. There's the. George St. Pierre, you know, you got the. Alexander Vulcganoskis, you got the all. these people, you know, that are, you. know, Islam Makfev was the last one I. used. I said, "They're made for MMA." I. go, "Mike Perry was an MMA fighter." I. said, "He's not made for MMA. He's a. tough guy." I go, "But bare knuckle, he.

was made for." I said, "And this is a. guy who can make a living fighting for. bare knuckle. He can pay his bills. He. can support his family fighting bare. knuckle. >> and become a star." I said, I said, "And. possibly get, you know, sponsors and. everything that are going to make it so. he can live the rest of his life." I. said, >> "And you're going to say that you want. to take that away because of a bare. fist?" I go, "It just doesn't make sense. to me." He looks at me, he goes, "You're.

right.". >> The best thing that should have happened. to him was him leaving like him being. released from the UFC. >> Oh, yeah. Absolutely. >> You got an [laughter] old timey ring. Andy Foster is calling you. Buddy, >> put him on speaker phone. You want me to. do? [laughter]. >> I don't want to put Andy under the spot. like that, >> you know. And Andy's done such a great. job. He does things that people don't. realize, >> you know, there he's now got a license. plate that's out for retired fighters to. try to get them a retirement. He's got.

he's got he's got a retirement for. boxers already that was set. He's been. doing things to try to get a retirement. fund for, you know, a Josh Thompson who. fought 15 times in California. >> 19. I looked it up. >> Is it 19? Okay, I'm wrong. [laughter]. 19 times in California, he can get an. actual retirement. Now, it's not going. to be a retirement that he gets paid. every month or they'll give him a large. sump of money that he can then go he can. go to a trade school. He can go to he. could buy a house. He can do these. things as a down payment. Andy just put.

in a thing. It just got turned down. because of a staffer. It was Assembly. Bill 2130 in California. And that. assembly bill was no money out of the. taxpayers money. Zero taxpayer money. It's about sponsorship. A dumbass like. me as a referee has to wear a sponsors. thing on my shirt. That will then 75% of. it went to retired fighters. 25% of it. went to training for.

upcoming and inservice officials, both. judges and referees. >> What's the negative? >> There is no negative. But you get these. people in politics that sit there and. go, "Oh, I don't like this there. You. want to know what their their negative. was?". >> This is in California, by the way. >> Yeah, this is in California. California. is the best state for decisions. [laughter] that you. but their whole thing was. >> as we both live in Texas now. >> think [laughter] about this we all. we all left there. >> but their whole thing was well that.

would allow the sponsor to say that. they're basically part of California and. they're running they're doing things for. California it's like they are doing. things for California they're helping. the people that [ __ ] put on [ __ ]. entertaining fights and things for. people here it's ridiculous. There's nothing good. There's some great. people in California. There are. >> Sure. >> You know, and there's some great. assembly people. I, you know, I just did. a whole thing for, you know, Heath. Flora, who's an assemblyman there, and. he's putting up a bill about you being. able to, if you protect somebody other.

than yourself, and from somebody that's. trying to do something, he's trying to. make it to where they can't civily go. after you. Makes sense. Yeah. >> You're doing the right thing. But but. no, there's people fighting against it. >> Why? It's just Oh, politics. Politics. suck. >> They suck in California. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> My dad always used to say, think about. the word politics. Paulie meaning many, ticks, blood sucking little insect, right? [laughter].

>> It's a bummer. It's a bummer. >> It's crazy. >> And then uh did you did you see that. Coker's returning to MMA? >> I did. >> Give me give me give me your take. I. like Scott a lot, but good luck. You. only have $60 million. >> When I saw it was only $60 million, I. was like, that sounds like a lot of. money until you think about putting on. an MMA promotion and then and then. getting television production and then, you know, paying fighters and then. securing venues and then having staff.

full-time for like. >> maybe, you know, you got Tony Hawk with. you. Maybe I mean, look, I'm rooting for. him. I I think he did great when he was. running Glory as well as when he was. running Bellator back in the day. He's a. really nice guy. I I think it's great. for everybody if there's more. competition. I think this whole MVP. thing and the Netflix thing is great. It. it stirred a bunch of cash into the. organization. Bunch of people got more. money than they would ever gotten. anywhere else. Awesome. I'm I'm more. options the better.

>> Yeah. I think. >> I'm just, you know, I hope he could do. it. >> Yeah. I I I think a lot of us I think a. lot I think a lot of people do because I. think as as they do grow promotions, right? The fighters get more experience. on a high level competition. You get to. fight fighters from all around the. world. I'm just excited for more. promotions to be involved. >> Yeah. More promotions is good. More. options is good. More money is what we. really want. The fighters need to get. more money. And. >> it's always going to be the UFC here, you know, and ultimately it just comes. down like you need more people to build. up to get to that level.

>> Name a good XFL game that you watched. You know what I'm saying? That's the. truth. Nothing wrong. I'm sure there's. great athletes, >> but it's it's the whole thing in your. part of it. You you know what you did. with the UFC and how you made it. exciting for people when you were. calling fights. And so, you know, it's a. people now, a lot of them, they don't. even know the fighters that are on the. card, but they'll they'll turn it on. when it says UFC because they believe in. the product. Yep. Right. >> And that's that's what you're supposed. to do as as the company, you know, and. and for marketing. But the one problem I.

do think they have right now is they're. unable to market people like they did. when, you know, you and I were early in. it and stuff. You know, they now are in. a position every week. >> And so it's tough to market, you know, those the guys who are not wellknown if. you're not. >> fight nights a lot of times the casuals. have no idea there's even a fight night. And some of them are [ __ ] insane. >> Oh, some of some of the best we talk. about all the time. It's like, you know, the the the card itself rates, if you're. looking at it, honestly, it rates a.

five. It rates a 5.5 on paper and then. you'll watch it and it's a 9.5. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> They're working to get to the top. That's those are the hard to prove. >> Yeah. And for hardcore fans, it's like. giving them constant food. Like, look, [laughter]. >> it's giving them that dopamine. It's. over. >> It is the thing when you look at it. It's the hardcore fan that the UFC has, but the casual ones the one that puts it. over. >> Y. >> and it's hard to get people to. understand. You need to get the casuals, the ones that don't watch fights all the.

time. And that's the one thing I'll give. I'll give Ronda Rousey, man. I thought. she did an amazing job of talking. >> and putting, you know, things out there. the way she did. She made she got. people's attention. She did what was her. job. >> Yeah. And they 17 million people are. watching that. That's huge. That's huge. >> It's all good for everybody. It's good. for the sport. It's great for the sport. It's like that's what we need. We need. more competition, more more eyeballs on. it. And unfortunately for the ca, you. know, the people that are casuals, it. has to be a name. You know, it has to.

like this Conor McGregor fight in July. is going to be [ __ ] bananas. It's. going to be bananas. I mean, people are. going to go crazy for the return of. Conor McGregor because he's a giant. personality. >> But don't expect the same. >> He hasn't fought in 5 years, right? And. that's but that's the problem. >> Might be more because they're going to A. little over I think it is a little over. five. It's almost six. I think. >> it might be six at the time of the. fight. >> It's five. I think it's five right now. >> Do. >> do are we expecting to see a Connor that. looked like Nate this last fight or are.

we expecting to see a better Connor than. someone that looked like Nate? >> Nate did not look good. >> But Mike Perry did. >> Mike Perry looked like a [ __ ]. murderer. >> You know what I mean? Like Mike Perry is. a murderer. [laughter] A. >> murderer. And this is. >> such a. >> you take a look at that and you when. you're taking an older fighter. >> which Nate is now and you're. >> 21 five [ __ ] years ago July. So it. literally will be six years. >> Y. >> and but when you're. >> Oh no, it'll be five years. It'll be. five years. >> When you're taking a younger fighter and. putting them against the old dog, it.

normally doesn't end well for the old. dog. >> Well, the thing is about Max Holloway is. like Max Holloway is that much younger. >> than Connor. >> He's not. But the thing is, Max has been. in constant highle competition the. entire time. Won the BMF fight, you. know, beat Dustin, like constant highle. competition. >> That's right. >> It's a different thing. >> And I honestly believe him at 155 is the. best thing for him. >> Absolutely. But he's not 155 in this. fight. >> This is. honestly he may cut at all. Just no. weight cut. Just kind of walk around.

>> And also knowing this is such a. high-profile fight, he's going to Max is. always in insane shape, but in. particularly in this fight, he's going. to be in [ __ ] insane shape. And his. last fight, he took almost no damage. He. got he got taken down, controlled, back. taken, and there was not a lot of. damage. Frustration. Yeah, frustration. >> Charles looked like a [ __ ] in. that fight. He's so good, >> dude. He's so good. Good everywhere, too. >> And on the ground, he's just so godamn. dangerous. And which just makes you. think, how good is Islam? Islam just. smooshed him.

>> I can tell you he's really good. [laughter]. I mean, it's kind of crazy though when. you think about how strong Charles's. grappling is and how Islam just. >> Yeah, >> dude. He called it. >> He called it. He He said he goes He goes. Islam is going to submit Charles. And. And he goes, "And he's going to submit. it with a head-on arm choke.". >> And I said, "Kimora." I said, "Either. one for sure.". >> I go, "Shut up." Yeah. >> Okay. Just [clears throat] shut up. He's. not going to do that. >> I said he would do it before three. rounds. He did it, you know, obviously.

very quick, but it was. >> his grappling is just otherworldly. And. the way he secures that dar by grabbing. the forearm, I've seen a lot of guys try. that now. A lot of guys are going to. that now. >> cuz you don't have to get as deep. So. you just go through and right at the top. and then. >> cover the chest with your cover the head. with your chest and just suck it in. >> You see people doing things all you know. we always used to talk about, you know, back a long time ago figure four in the. body. We go don't do that. They step the. foot inside it's it's going to it cranks. you. It's bad. How about that? had the. girl do it. >> Guillotine that AJ McKe does.

>> Oh, the the the Makiotine. >> Yeah. How about that [ __ ] thing? Like, how come no one's doing that? >> That's the whole thing. Look. Okay, look. at what body styles. >> When he did that, I was like, wait. >> Yeah, his body style. He's so long. He's. able to reach him, especially 145. >> He's huge for 145. >> Yeah, >> he's a big boy. >> But Grant Dawson just did the genie. choke. Okay. >> How many times have you seen that done. in competition? I've seen it in in the. the grappling room all the time, right? Guys doing it, right? And all a sudden. people are like, "Never seen that." It's.

like, "Dude, it's been around forever.". >> Well, it's like when we talked about. Edson Barbosza knocking out Terry Edam. How did he get to that fight before that. was the first wheel kick KO? >> Yeah. >> We've seen a ton of them since then. But. that was the first one. Like that. doesn't even make sense. When Anderson. Silva front kick Vtor in the face, we. were like, "Wait, hold on. >> You could do that.". >> Yeah. >> Like I remember Eddie and I having a. conversation about kicks and he goes, "What do you think about front kicks to. the face?" I'm like, eh, doesn't really. land that often. [laughter] Incorrect. >> And then Machita does it to Randy and. then Machita does it to Vtor.

>> Oh my god. >> So Vtor's been on the receiving end of. twice on that kick. >> Yeah, man. I mean, there's been a bunch. of them now. Now you see a lot of front. kicks to the face cuz it's such an. unexpected thing, especially if a guy's, you know, you're getting hit to the body. with it a bunch and you're getting used. to doing this and then donk, >> it hits you right on the chin. It's just. such a such an unexpected technique. Every time we think that we're not going. to see something new, something new pops. up. >> But the crazy thing about front kicks is. it's literally the first thing you ever. get taught. >> When you learn how to kick, that's the. first thing you ever get taught. The.

idea of there being a new use for the. first thing you ever learn [laughter]. >> is kind of crazy. >> A little snap kick. >> Yeah, that's nuts. >> I mean, karate like that's for day one. [laughter]. >> That's it. The fact just like that exact. looks like too all goofy and [ __ ] the. fact that that's the the kick that and. then calf kicks of course like that's. number one. >> you know it's interesting cuz um Cub. Swanson is actually saying that he was. the first guy to throw calf kicks. >> he was saying like no no no go back to.

like 2011 I was landing calf kicks I. forget who he fought they said he [ __ ]. somebody up with a calf kick. >> well then I'll tell you before that was. >> Benson was one of the early ones for. sure. >> George Mosol really. >> yes he was doing it in Strikeforce in. 2007 2008. >> really well I believe. >> around If you look at ATT as a team, >> they do calf kicks all the time. That is. a huge weapon that they use. >> You go back and watch Mazdall when he. fought KJ Nunes and how he just.

destroyed KJ Nunes and he was kept. kicking to the calf to the head kick. >> to the body shots [clears throat] to the. boxing. He just ped how good Mazda was. when he knocked out Eve Edwards for the. head kick. Like people people really. sleep on Mazdall was slick. He was so. good. >> when he knocked out cowboy people like. when he knocked out Darren Tillar. >> How about that one? That one was. bananas. That step in hook. >> Woo. >> Yeah, cuz that was a weight class above. what he normally fought. >> Yep. >> You know, he's he was one of those. things. >> But he was better when he went up just.

like most guys are. >> But he never got the credit he deserved. Everywhere he went, whether it was. strike force into the UFC, he never got. credit until he started doing things. that people didn't think he could do. >> You know, when he knocked out, like you. said, Darren Hill, the running across. the cage with Ben Asin, like those kind. of things. He had no love up until those. moments. >> True. >> That guy was always nasty. >> Always. Yeah, >> dude. All the way back to his street. fighting days with Kimbo, >> right? >> Videos on YouTube. Yeah. >> That's I I I have this I wanted to ask. you this because I look at these guys. now. What is it with the younger.

fighters that can't get past the old. dogs? Like Dustin doesn't have to. retire. Justin Gatesy doesn't have to. retire. They're still ranked at number. two and number three. What are you. seeing on your side that makes you think. like, man, these these young guys, these. old guys, they're not going softly into. the night. They're not letting these. guys come by. Why can't the younger guys. get past them? Daddy not being able to. get past Justin like. >> Daddy was not at Justin's level with. stand up. Justin's level was like quite. a bit. First of all, Justin is an elite. grappler. So like what is Patty going to.

do? Is he going to take him down? That's. not that's no picnic. And standing up. with Justin. Justin has like some of the. nastiest [ __ ] leg kicks in the sport. And we should use him more. >> I know, right? Remember when he used to. throw him from the clinch? Oh yeah. like. he's in tight with you and he's kicking. down on your legs like and you're like. how are you moving your hips like that? >> He was an animal. He still is an animal. >> It's like he's not he hasn't faded. >> You know, Justin's not faded. That phys. is an elite world class striker and he. beat him up standing.

>> Yep. >> It's Yeah, he hasn't faded. J Justin. hasn't faded. He's just 36 or whatever. he is. 37. >> I think he's losing. But you you got to. have a passion for the sport. And and I. think Dana's, you know, says you look at. if you're not 100% in, >> right? >> Don't do this. And he and he's right. And I think there comes that point where. it just gets to that, >> you know what, there's there's other. things out in the world that I want to. start doing and things. >> Do you think Justin's at that spot right. now? >> I'm not too sure he's at that spot, but.

I think he's thought about it based upon. some of the performances and and the. tight fights he's had. I think that I. think the fight with Max Holloway made. him kind of think about he had that was. a tough fight for him all the way. through. >> All the way through. >> All the way through. He lives a. comfortable life. I think he lives a. good life. He enjoys playing golf with. the boys. >> You know, he he's um. >> he's another guy I know he's like, "Oh, I spent I've spent money. I need to make. more money and this and that." But. >> he also to me, every time I take a look. and when people talk about him, I think. that he's done pretty he's done really.

well for himself. I think he's doing. well for himself. I don't think he's in. any danger where he's losing the passion. of it. >> Well, I did I did the the Naked Gun, whatever, the second edition of the. Naked Gun with Liam Niss and it had we. had Camaro Usman and Justin Gatei were. two of the fighters in it, right? And he. was hysterical throughout the whole. thing, right? And he's s he's such a. button pusher with Camaro, you know, Camaro say, "Okay, let's go easy." And. all of a sudden, you know, Justin's. doing something crazy and and Camaro's. like, "What the hell's wrong with you?". and [laughter] just he loves life. He.

enjoys life. And I think that, you know, there comes a point where. >> he he always had that attitude. You. know, when he was undefeated, he goes, "Someone's going to knock me out." He's. honest about things. And I love that. about him. >> that he's he doesn't sit there and he. doesn't play the, you know, oh well, we'll see. And stuff. He's honest and he. tells you, you know what, you know, this. may be my last one. And he's thought. about it. And if he's thought about it, it's telling you it's a thought process. It's there. How far will it go? If he. has a great performance against Ilia, I. think he'll stick around.

>> Now, unfortunately, I kind of think I'd. rather see him go away. >> I know that's saying because I love. watching him. >> I would love to see him win and go away. That would be the whole point. That's. what I said. That would be nuts. If he. wins the title at the [ __ ] White. House. >> and that says that's it. I've hit my. bucket list. >> The White House thing is odd. Um I don't. like it. I don't like the idea of. fighting outside at all. >> Well, there's problems with it. [clears throat] June. >> and it's DC and we looked it up the last.

time like last year same day was 100°. >> Yeah. >> Oh yeah. >> That's hot as [ __ ]. >> Then you add the lights. Oh yeah. Yeah. The lights. >> You add the lights attracts bugs. >> How about dehydration? >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. The the bugs are a big one. >> Go back to Go back to UFC. Yeah. With. all those lights. >> Yeah. >> Go back to UFC 3. See how hot it was. >> How are they going to [ __ ] do. anything about the bugs? Cuz I know that. Dana was talking about that recently. They were talking about maybe using. fans. >> Was that enough? No, it's not enough. >> You have bug strips everywhere. What are. you going to do? [clears throat] Like, how are you going to stop the bugs? There's a lot of bugs. Spray. That's.

pretty much all you. >> pesticide the [ __ ]. >> That's good. Pesticide. That's good for. the fighters. [laughter]. >> That'll that'll help with their. breathing. >> I just don't think that you should. compete in a world championship fight in. a non-controlled environment. I think it. should be inside an air conditioned. arena. It should be a controlled. environment just like every like you. don't ask someone to do any of you you. wouldn't ask them to play a world. championship basketball game outside in. the sun. That would be crazy. Yeah, right. You have to you play in a [ __ ]. air conditioned arena and that's how it.

should be. >> Yeah, I agree with you. But I understand. the whole thing and it's special. >> Listen, >> but it's going to be a pain in the butt. >> A [ __ ] roof. >> Build a roof. >> Like you've got all the money in the. world, right? You're doing this. [clears throat] You want to do this for. [ __ ] money. It's [laughter] four. 4,000 seats. You build a 4,000 seat. arena. How big is that? Get a [ __ ]. barnaminium. Put it in there. You know, like we did UFC's uh in the the troops. We did them in the troops. We did them. in hangers. >> Yeah, we did. But they want that White.

House in the background. >> Put it in the background on TV. Who. gives a [laughter] [ __ ] It's just like. when world class fighters are competing. I don't think they should have to. compete outside. >> Look at They're already They're already. putting it in. >> Imagine if someone loses a fight because. it's too hot out. Oh, >> imagine if [clears throat] that becomes. a factor. Imagine the dehydrated. fighters like the dehydrated fighters. that are now being forced 24 hours later. to fight in 100 degree heat outside the. spotlight. >> Go back. I swear to God, UFC 3 was in. North Carolina and it was the hottest.

thing I've ever been in in my life. >> It was outside UFC 3? >> No, it wasn't. It was inside with. >> no air conditioning really inside. They. put there was it was a 3,500 seat arena. They put 6,000 people into it. It was uh. under the lights had to be 150 degrees. Okay. It was you saw everyone falling. out. Hoist had the problem after chemo. and stuff. You know, Ken Shamrock fell. out. They all pulled out and stuff. It. was. >> Joe. It was the hottest thing I've ever.

been in in my life. It was brutal. >> You have to ask yourself as a fighter. though, is the spectacle worth my. career? >> Right. Like is it worth me going out. there and fighting. in in the in these circumstances that. I'm not used to? >> Well, we did one outside at Abu Dhabi. That was when BJ Penn and Frank fought. and then Damen Dame and that one, bro, there were bugs flying around. It looked. like birds. They [laughter] were so big. I was like, "That's a bug? What kind of. bug is that? Can that kill me?" Like,

this is crazy. We're in the [ __ ]. desert, man. [laughter]. >> There's some giant ass [groaning]. flying. I can hear it. Yeah. Yeah. >> Make sure your microphone's not picking. it up. Sounds like a helicopter coming. by. >> You're outside. It's hot. You're in the. desert. This is crazy. Like, why are we. fighting outside? >> No, because I think I had read somewhere. where Hhabib had said, "No, I prefer. Islam not take a fight there at the. White House. There's too many. distractions. You got all the media. You. got the that whole week. Plus, it's. outside. These are all things that your. fighter is not used to doing. Why would. I jeopardize his win streak, his his. second title? Why would I jeopardize all.

of that?" Yeah. His legacy, everything. >> just so we can fight at the White House. I know it seems great. Yeah, I was I. fought there, but at the end of the day, >> you got to look and. >> I worked so hard to get here. I don't. want to lose it over this one thing. >> Yeah. I just feel like you could put a. roof over it. [laughter]. >> I mean, like, you got all this money. You're making a ballroom. Make a [ __ ]. Make a little do it just on a regular. basis. >> I mean, are they making Are they. finishing the ballroom? Are we going to. get that? Make. >> your own [laughter] I don't know. Make. your own apex setter. >> I mean, come on. Make a [ __ ]. barnaminium. How hard is that?

[laughter]. >> You know what I'm saying? >> Hard. Trust me, I just finished one. >> Did you? Oh my god. But you're one guy. >> Oh, exactly. >> Get a [ __ ] team of United States. civil engineers. Get the uh [ __ ] the. army to do it. >> Cheers, [laughter] man. >> So, you're going to be at that one? >> Yeah. Yeah, I'm going to be there. Allegedly. >> Allegedly. >> If there's not a bomb that goes off. between now and then, who [ __ ] knows? This world is crazy. >> I love what you did with the IBA game. with it, man. Thank you. >> Way to go. >> Well, >> what was the process on that? How long. did that take? >> I don't I don't care what the process. was. Way to go. >> Thank you. The process was me texting.

Trump. Literally, [laughter]. I'm not bullshitting a long. bullshitting. I texted him on Friday. He. showed up to the UFC on Saturday, shook. my hand, and said, "It's done.". >> You're kidding. >> Oh, no. I'm not kidding at all. No, I. texted him. He texted me back, "Are you. looking for FDA approval? Sounds good to. me." I I tell him how effective it is at. helping all these veterans with PTSD, people with traumatic brain injuries, all these different things. People I. mean, we have a problem with fentanyl in. this country. This is one of the best. things that we've ever demonstrated. Yep. I'm like, listen, there's so many.

people that risk their life for this. country. They come back and there's no. help and this is the only thing that. they've found help in. Yeah. And it's. illegal and that doesn't make any sense. You shouldn't have to go to Mexico to. get treatment for something that you got. because you were defending your country. That's nuts. And so he right away he was. like, "Look, this makes sense to me.". >> Like he cut through all the [ __ ]. >> Common sense. >> And there was a bunch of people that. were trying to get in the way of it. A. bunch of people. I mean, inside the. White House, people that were trying to.

get and he's like, "Fuck you. [ __ ] you. Do it." And he like was telling him, "Just do it. Make it happen." And he. made it happen. And that's amazing for. everybody. >> Yeah. No, it was amazing that you know. what you stepped up cuz you are going to. be helping so many people. I don't think. I people don't have an idea of how bad. it is and what that can do for them. So, I think way to go. I I was like, you. see, I always say you always you always. talk about you're a dummy. I'm a dummy. I always tell people I said he's super. intelligent. And you are cuz you got.

that done. Just proves it. >> I never asked him for anything else. I've never asked him for anything. Never. Signing pin or something. [laughter]. >> He gave me those anyway. I didn't even. ask. >> I've got a bunch of stuff. I got a pen. I got a bunch of things. But I was like, if there's anything that I would really. ask him for that is it's bipartisan. supported. Like Democrats support it, Republicans support it. 85% of the. country supports it. Especially when it. comes to things like Ibagain, which is. not even remotely recreational. >> No, >> I haven't done it. >> People sick.

>> Everybody has done it. It's horrible. You get diarrhea, but it's 24 hours of. misery, but when it's over, you're a new. person. >> Good. >> And look, and Rick Perry, God bless him. because if it wasn't for him getting. behind it, that changed everybody's. opinion. Here you have this Republican. former governor of Texas who's talking. about it and and and then talking about. his own personal experiences doing it, >> you know. So him and Brian Huard, I mean. they they they really went all out and. when I had them on my podcast, not once. but twice to talk about this and the. state of it where it's being passed in.

Texas, they got a hund00 million from. Ken Paxton. So which is I mean Yeah. No. Was it Ken Paxton? No. No. Who Who is. it? >> Uh uh uh. >> Dan Patrick. Sorry. Dan Patrick. So Dan. Patrick who approved this hund00 million. for this Ibagain initiative. Like these. people all deserve praise. This is like. there's a lot of people that for the. longest time they thought of. psychedelics as being something that. losers do. >> and then [clears throat] they realize. like no there's a lot of people that. need help. >> and this could help everyone. >> There could be a good side with.

>> country. I was just in San Diego last. Monday and then I was in LA on Tuesday. and it's unrecognizable. >> It's crazy. >> It's sad. Like I and I and and when you. take a look at San Diego, it's always. been beautiful beaches in the background. and but it was worse than LA. I was in. the Burbank area and actually it was a. lot nicer than San Diego was in the gas. light district was just disgusting. What. is it? Gas lamp. >> Gas lamp. >> Yeah. It just I couldn't believe it. I. walked into a couple restaurants. You. got homeless people stumbling in trying. to order knock trying to take food off.

of people's plates while they're there. I'm just like, what is going on? >> No law enforcement. That's what's going. on. >> It's the first time that I've went back. and I've been back, you know, in the. last three years. I've been back two or. three times a year easily. It's the. first time I went back. I was like, man, this is not this is not what it used to. be. This is not It was It just felt I. felt like it I felt like for the first. time I didn't feel safe there. >> God. >> And it's weird to me. And how do you get. that? How [clears throat] do you bring. it back? >> Oh, that's simple. >> You bring it back by doing the right.

things, common sense things, taking it, you know, dude. >> Oh, I understand this, but I mean, who. do you get to do it? Do you think Chad. Biano does it? Do you think Steve Hilton. does it? Like, who who do you get to. turn the state around? You know, it's. your girl your girl Katie Porter. She. get it done. >> Oh, Jesus Christ. [laughter]. >> She'll scold everybody into compliance. But I'm s I'm sitting outside. I'm. sitting outside having dinner last night. and and I'm watching a bunch of homeless. guys. >> talking to themselves and like and and. this is the problem. I was a police. officer for 23 years, okay? I I've been.

out there with them and you have people. that, you know, they have serious. problems, you know, and and I I. understand, you know, the ACLU and. stuff, they they oh, it's not right to. put them. No, it's better for them and. it's better for the the people that are. out on the street just trying to live. their lives to have that person be put. into a place where they can receive some. medication, receive some help and try to. get them back than it is to let these. people just rot on the street and.

self-destruct. And I'm watching and it's. like, >> how is that so hard to figure out that. it's better to do something with them. than it is to just let them be? It's crazy. >> Yeah. It's We've lost our way, you know, as a society. And I think a great. reflection of that is how many homeless. people you have camped out on your. streets. Those are the places where. they've lost their way the most. >> That's it. >> And this is unfortunately a lot of these. Democrats run cities. >> I owned a couple gyms in San Jose and. just it was tent city and along the.

highway like leading up to my along the. road that led up to my gym, all those. things. But you would see they would. they were stealing solar panels from. people's houses and they would put them. up on the sidewall so they could charge. their cell phones. Like they're smart. enough to do these things, right? It's. not as if like they're not. >> they're just drug addicts. A lot of. that's it. >> And just addict in areas like San Jose. that can help with that. >> 100%. >> But things like in in San Jose or San. Francisco, they're giving them needles, they're giving them drugs, they're. giving them phones. >> It's like why are we why are we doing. this? >> Well, the other problem is the amount of.

money that's involved in the homeless. industry now. That's right. >> When you find out that California spent. 24 [clears throat] billion in. homelessness only got. >> nothing. Not only that, but the [ __ ]. they tried to do an audit on it and the. governor vetoed it. It's like no nothing. to see. >> Nothing to see. >> Why waste time? >> It's only 24 billion, guys. >> Well, how much did they spend on that. bridge that had the for the mountain. lions? >> Yeah, for the. >> Oh [laughter] my god. Yeah. >> What are we doing? >> Hey, hey, hey, that's okay. The mountain. lions need a [ __ ] bridge.

>> They need hugs. They need hugs. It's uh. they need uh they need to wake up and. the problem is that they're in this. bizarre mindset, this uh liberal leftist. mindset that's just not tenable. It's. not you can't defend it. It's not. >> because it's work. Yeah. >> Yeah. I I always look at this. People. talk about left and right and most. people are I'm I'm in the center. I. think, you know, it's I think a lot of. people are it's not it's not where. >> but you get labeled as being on the.

right if you're not on all the way. >> If you're not all crazy, you're to the. far right. >> Yeah. It's nuts. >> It's absolutely just nutty seesaw. [laughter]. >> Well, I just saw something that I can't. remember who it was, but they continue. to talk about, you know, let's keep. taxing the billionaires. Keep taxing the. billionaires. >> and do what with the money. >> And that's the point though. So, why. don't we just. >> going to go away? Why don't we just not. tax the people that make under 200,000? >> That's actually something Jeff Bezos uh. brought up. He said you should the the.

bottom 50% the people that make the the. the least amount of money don't tax them. at all. He goes because they're not. contributing that much to the tax base. anyway and they would contribute more to. the economy if they had more money. >> Absolutely. It would help everybody. >> That's right. >> I think he's right. >> I always said 150,000 down. >> Yeah. [clears throat]. >> You don't pay taxes. >> That's a great number. I also thought. about it too is if you were to take if. you got rid of the um you know because. they're talking about this housing. shortage and all these other things, why. don't we get rid of the low interest. rates, you know, because I have like a. couple interest rates on some houses. that I have that are at 2%. How do you.

get rid of those? Well, why don't you. just raise my capital gains tax so I. don't got to I my wife and I or. whatever, we can pay like less on that. versus that 500,000 threshold. Why don't. you make it a million? So then I'll cash. out on those and just take my money out. and then I'll start putting it back into. the economy again. Like there's all. >> You're talking like a sensible. businessman. [laughter] Like you can't. be doing that in California. They'll put. you in jail. >> They'll put you in Twitter jail. >> You can do the death tax they did in New. York. I mean look what mom Donniey's. trying to do. >> Oh that's nuts. >> Oh my god. >> People are just going to bail out of.

that city. >> It's crazy. >> It seems to be [ __ ] people that think. like taxing the rich is the solution. And do what with the money? If you were. doing a great job with the money and. everything was accounted for and there. was no fraud and waste, I'd be like, "Well, maybe you just need more money.". But that's clearly not the case. You've. got so much fraud and you're ignoring. it. >> And then this Nick Shirley kid, when he. exposes it, everybody go after him. You. look, you should be praising. >> Give that kid an award. >> Give him a [ __ ] award. >> Here, I want journalist of the year and.

he's not a journalist. >> How how much fraud do you think is in. this country? >> Billions and billions and billions. I. mean, Elon had said Elon had said when. he first came in, he goes, "Hey, I I. think it's close to a trillion dollars, maybe a little bit over.". >> He said it was so bad that he didn't. want to talk about it too much. He was. worried they'd kill him. >> You know, he really said that. >> Don't it. It's wild, >> Joe. [clears throat] He's not He ain't. stupid. >> No, he's not. >> No, he's not. >> He's anything [laughter] but. >> No, he's not stupid. >> He's anything but. But I mean to to. think though I think how much in.

California they've discovered around. let's just say what 200 billion. >> at least. >> you know somewhere around there. That's. on the low end. New York's probably in. and Chicago is and then I mean but. they've got to do it in all states. You. can't just do it in the ones where it's. LA and and Chicago and New York. We've. got to do it in all states. >> That's got to be in Texas everywhere. It's everywhere. There's fraud and these. people are profiting off of the fraud. They were funneling it right back into. the parties and it's it's dirty. business. Well, you didn't really think. that that shovel the government pays for. was really [ __ ] $900.

[laughter]. >> I mean, >> well, there's a lot of that is they get. a budget and they have to pay they have. to spend all the money. >> Spend every bit of it. >> Yeah. Otherwise, they won't get the same. budget next year, >> which is wild to me because the schools. the schools operate the same way. If the. teachers don't spend a certain amount of. money on these things and they don't get. the same budget for next year. No. No. Why don't we reward the people that. actually save the money? >> Yeah. >> It doesn't make any sense to me. >> That's the stupidest thing I've ever. heard. >> What is wrong with you? Well, gentlemen, >> I want to know when when do you come. into my class, though? >> Your your refereeing class? Yeah. When. is it? When do you have it?

>> July 17th and 19th. He's gone. >> When is Oh, I'm not even going to be in. the country. >> Oh, okay. [laughter]. >> Um, but when are you doing one? Where. are you doing them? >> Usually I do them in Vegas at like. Stream Couture or something like that. because I need the gym to to put people. in cages with fighters. >> If I can, I definitely will. I would. love to see it. I would love to see it. >> Is there a location we could do one? That way I don't have that way you look. at any time you know you have my number. Text me if you have a question during. during the fights. It's it's the text.

>> It's like when [laughter] you say the. waiter I get I get them all the time. So. it's not. >> just wrap it up right. >> I get I get them all [laughter] the. time. So, you know, it's nice when you. know exactly what the referee can do, what where they're going to go. And when. you're looking like with, you know, a. Mark Goddard or a Herb Dean, what when. you know if you go to the CL, you'll. know exactly, hey, this is what he can. do and this is this is why he'll do it. >> I'll definitely ask you. I promise. At. the very least, >> I'll ask you next time an issue comes. out. No problem. I'll have you on speed.

dial. There you go. >> Maybe I'll put you on speaker phone at. the UFC. Hey everybody, Big John's right. here. [laughter]. >> Don't do that. Uh, it's it's the one. thing that I'm I'm always watching and. it's like, you know, and you guys are. like, I don't know. I don't know. I'm. like, this is the answer. >> Well, you know, >> I'll reach out. I promise. Love you. >> Thank you, brother. Love you, too. Love. you. >> This is fun. Let's do it again. >> Absolutely. >> There's always going to be fights to. talk about. >> Freaking a. >> I live up the street, so let let me know. anytime. >> All right. [ __ ] yeah. All right. Bye. Talk to you [music] later. Bye, everybody.

>> [music].