JRE MMA Show #176 with Dustin Poirier

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe. Rogan experience. TRAIN BY DAY, JOE. ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. ALL DAY. What's happening, bro? >> you, my friend. Good to be back, bro. Dustin [music] Poirier, the light. heavyweight. >> [laughter]. >> It's It's thick boy summer. You looking. healthy, son. Yeah, like 190, man. You. look good, man. >> good, dude. It feels good to eat and not. count carbohydrates and calories. Yeah, we were talking about that where you. like still like a little part of you is.

like looks at meals and goes. Well, I mean for the last 20 years I've. been macro and you know, I knew I had a. fight coming up. Even if I didn't have a. fight, I had to be in striking range. from 155. Right. So, I was always. looking at the back of every label, being real cautious of what I eat. It's. like ingrained in my daughter now. When. we go to Whole Foods, she'll grab. something off the counter and say, "Dad, it only has three ingredients." Like she. knows what's up. Well, it's good to think that way. anyway. For sure. Especially with the. ingredients. Yeah, she'll That's the. first thing she goes to. Like if she. wants some chips, it only has five.

ingredients. That's like a thing. We're good. For her when we're shopping. Yeah, well that's smart, man. That's. cool. You're raising them right. >> Trying to, bro. I'm trying to put the. stuff I learned in fighting, you know, all the years to good use. >> Yeah. It's. It is kind of crazy. I think it's the. worst thing about fighting is the weight. cutting. Can you imagine if everybody. just First of all, I tell me if you agree, but I think the. UFC needs way more weight classes. >> Way more. I do, too. Because the gaps are so big. I mean just.

if you look at boxing compared to mixed. martial arts, the the the jumps in. weight are so big from each weight. class. But also. all the shows they're putting on, they'd. have more titles, more belts, more big. fights. But also, man, with that there's. going to be a lot of people trying to. cut a little bit extra, trying to be. double champ in every weight class. I. think it it does cause more confusion. Yeah, but that's better than the extreme. weight cuts. The extreme weight cuts are. terri- You saw that dude a few um. like I guess it was about three events. ago who face planted and got removed off.

the card? That is crazy. You're getting. someone to the brink of death 24 hours. before they have an MMA fight, which is. the most. if not the most dangerous sport, one of. the most dangerous sports in the world. And you're doing something to your body. to extremely weaken it 24 hours before. you fight. It's bananas. Dude, I did it. so many times. You preach it to the. choir. I know. I mean so many times I. felt like that. Like stand up too quick. after a weight cut and I'm like, you. know, I I might go down. Oh, dude, I I.

mean, I can only imagine. When you see. someone like Pereira that's cutting like. 25 lbs and more, when he was 185, I mean, that guy was fighting inside the. octagon at 225. and weighing in at 185 24 hours before. That's crazy. >> And even when he's big, he's lean, you. know, it's not like he's fluffy. Well, they say that when you're. muscular, it's easier to cut weight cuz. it's water. Yeah, which is.

counter-intuitive. You see a fat guy, you're like, oh, that guy can cut. weight, but you really can't cuz you. can't replenish replenish your fat. >> Right, not in a training camp's time, 8. weeks, 10 weeks, you can't lose like 30. lbs of fat, but I don't think replenish. I said replenish like it was a real. word. >> You can dehydrate yourself. I don't. think it is a word. Deplenish? Well, if. you can replenish, Right, but no one. says deplenish. >> No, you say deplete, but I just threw it. out there like it was real. I don't. think deplenish is a word. Is that a. word? Yeah. It is? Yeah. I don't think.

I've ever used it that way. Oh, okay. Nice, man. Nice. I got [laughter] lucky. That was just luck. Um, but I talked to Hunter about it, Hunter Campbell, and we're we're trying. to figure out a way. um, without it has to be more weight. classes. I mean, California instituted a. bunch of different weight classes. I. think um, I think they were doing it every 10 lb. I think California also did like a. percentage of your your body weight. Like I don't What was it? 15, 20% you.

couldn't dehydrate more than that? That. guy Andy Foster's on the ball. And I. think that's good, you know. Yeah. 20%. or or whatever, some kind of rule where. guys aren't cutting 50 lb, 40 lb. >> crazy. Yeah, still crazy. >> if you're 200 weight Yeah, you're right. 200 lb, 40 lb, I mean. >> It's a lot of weight. Well, that's. another thing that freaks boxers out. when I tell them that there's a weight. limit at heavyweight. 265? That doesn't make any sense. I go, I agree. Why is there a weight limit for. heavyweight? That's crazy. Dude, that.

that gap too, like 205, anything over. that you can be. 210 to 265, that's what crazy. >> Crazy. It doesn't make any sense. A. 50-lb gap that you know, but. Well, heavyweight in boxing, like look, Mike Tyson when he was in his prime was. only like 220, 215, 220. You know, that's where he when he was dominating, that's where he kind of fell in that. weight limit. I wouldn't I think it. would be a good idea anything past like. 230, 235, super heavyweight. >> Yeah. You know. Well, the difference in.

boxing though is the grappling. The. grappling in MMA, the gap if a guy gets. on top you is immense. If you got a like. Ngannou when he was in his prime was. weighing over like 300 lb and then. cutting down to 265. He was a 300-lb. natural. He's a guy who's. like a knockdown power for sure, but. grappling like if you get a big guy. who's 265 and knows how to grapple very. well, wrestled his whole life, they get. inside control or half guard, you're not. getting up. That's the end of the round.

>> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Also, if they did do a. super heavy, the fights might be either. awesome or it's completely suck. Well, I. think it should be heavyweight should be. unlimited. And then you'll find. Yeah, because like Cain Velasquez, no. one's holding that dude down in his. prime. Even when he was 240. When he was. 240 and he fought Lesnar, Lesnar was. gigantic. But it didn't matter because. the cardio that Cain had and the speed. and his technique sort of it He was. ahead of his time, man. He was ahead of. his He was like a hybrid, can do.

everything, great cardio, good athlete. before MMA got to where it's at now. Yeah. The one fight that I always say. that we missed is Cain and Fedor in. their primes. Cuz they were both in. their prime at the same time and they. never made that happen. When you have. Zuffa absorbed the the Pride roster and. stuff, I was crazy it's crazy that Fedor. never fought in the UFC at all, man. Well, they tried. The UFC tried, but. Fedor's management were a bunch of very. dangerous dudes. >> don't mess around with those guys. [ __ ] Yeah, man. There was like tense.

negotiations and they wanted a. percentage of the promotion. They wanted. a lot more than just a big purse. >> Yeah, UFC's not playing that game. >> No. They were like, "Look, we'll give. you, you know, a very healthy purse. We'll bring Fedor over here." But the. problem was when they purchased Pride, they thought they were getting. everyone's contracts, but the contracts. were all [ __ ]. >> Well, some guys came over on crazy crazy. money contracts, you know. I think Dan. Henderson might have been one. I was a young fighter one time and I was. making This might have been.

2013 or something 2014, I don't know. And they came to give me my check. This. is back in the day before they wired. They used to give us checks on fight. night. And they had they were going through the. checks and I saw Dan's and I saw the. number and I couldn't believe it. This. is before like people posting online. fighter pay and all that and I saw the. numbers he was making. I was like, "No. way! The guy's rich!". >> [laughter]. >> Does it make you angry? Nah. Nah. Because the future myself looking back. or looking forward when guys are going. to be fighting for belts and stuff, the.

money they're going to make in 5 years, I'm going to be I'm going to be that. guy. Like, "Damn, you know, I I got out. too early." Or. You know how it is. The next generation. always gets more. Right. Mike Brown. tells me that all the time. Do you I was. fighting for the belt in WEC defending. it making this you guys on the prelims. are making more than I was making you. know? Yeah there's a weird. that sort of discussion about fighter. pay you know I've always been of the. opinion that fighters should be making. more money period because like the same. way I feel about like the way I run my.

comedy club the comedians make 80% of. the money. Cuz I feel like that's who's. you're paying to see you're paying to. see them we make plenty of money like. with drinks and 20% of the ticket sale. it's like it's enough like it should be. the. if we had a comedy club and there's no. comedians no one's coming right no one's. going to pay just to sit there and buy. drinks like the whole idea is they're. paying to see someone's work if you. fight that's what people are paying to. see they're paying to see fighters.

Without the fighters there's no show. without the comedians there's no show I. understand but I think the big thing. with the discussion of fighter pay is. the is the percentages when you look at. other major major organizations like NFL. and NBA the percentages are so so. different. Yeah it's not good. But dude at the end of the day I'm all. for fighter pay too I've been fighting. my whole life but you sign the contract. you agree this is how business is done. push for try to get more of what you're. worth you know you can't sign a contract. and complain. Right that's true too but. also it's like the reality of MMA is if.

you're not in the UFC people are not. paying attention that's unfortunate but. it's reality you know and I think. there's some really good fighters that. fight in the PFL and really good. fighters that fight in One. But. they don't no one knows who they are. other than the hardcore dudes. Right. that's. Yeah I got a buddy Johnny Eblen who was. the Bellator champion. >> I've been training with him since he. started MMA when he got out of college. wrestling and stuff like right now he. can go to the UFC and give the top five. guys a run for their money no no doubt.

in my mind and he's only getting better. Yeah. Just because you fight in the UFC. that's a great organization to fight for. the biggest the most known worldwide, but dude, there's great fighters. everywhere. You know, like on the on the mats at. American Top Team, there's a dozen guys. you never heard of that can make a run. in the UFC right now. That's what I. heard is the nightmare about training at. American Top Team. Cuz it's a revolving. door, man. There's like 100 professional. fighters on the mats at all times. >> Yeah. Different camps, they have dorms, so guys are from Russia, guys from all. over the world are just in, you never.

know who's going to be there. And it's. it's tough rounds, you know, every. practice is tough. >> Well, not only that, but I've heard. there's like guys coming in from Russia. and they'll throw oblique kicks at your. knees and you're like, "Hey, man. Like, what are we doing here? We're. getting ready for fights. We're not in a. fight.". >> Right. Yeah, yeah. Like, some of these. guys are trying to make their name off. of a name guy and so you have to be very. selective in who you spar with. >> For sure, and that's any not just. American Top Team. Especially guys who. are established, like if I go to any gym. here in Austin and it's.

open mat or something, I have a target. on my back. Of course. >> that's everywhere. Of course. >> guys, man, like at a big gym like. American Top Team with the knowledge and. the good coaches, those guys get weeded. out. You know, you you won't stay there. long if you're doing that stuff. The. problem is if you're one of the guys. that has to weed them out. Like, you. find out early on this dude's, you know, throwing wheel kicks full blast. And. that happens all the time. Oh, yeah. Well, this, you know, makes sense. I. mean, you're from Dagestan or Chechnya. or whatever and you come to America, it's like this is your big chance. >> And I do like to train hard to prepare.

for a fight, you got to fight, but the. you know, you got to take care of each. other, we're professionals, we're. feeding our family with this. Yeah. An. injury can ruin everything. Well, there's so many fighters that get. concussions in training and then, you. know, they get chinny when they get into. the fight. It happens all the time. Yeah. Especially the early days, there. was a lot of guys who got hit. Me. Yeah, like the early days, we didn't really have. classes that were organized, man. It was. just sparring and choking each other out. and with 4-oz gloves sparring, like we.

didn't know, We didn't know. Ain't that crazy? Like 2006, dude, we. used to beat each other up every day. That was MMA training. And then it wasn't these super gyms. where everything was under one roof. I. would drive to a boxing gym, drive. another 45 minutes to a jiu-jitsu gym. You know, it was put everything together. on fight night, but you would train. everywhere else cuz there wasn't mixed. martial arts gyms back then really. I would drive to a kickboxing gym, boxing gym, wrestling, jiu-jitsu. It was. all separate. Well, also you were in a. place that didn't have like a high.

volume of MMA fighters in your state. Right. Back then like. Rich Clementi, Melvin Guillard were the. big guys from Louisiana, you know. Then Tim Credeur came, got Crazy Tim. Crazy Tim got on The Ultimate Fighter. and then I went to his gym once he got. out of. the TV show. And I me and him trained. for years and years. He still has a gym. in Lafayette, Louisiana. I loved him. I've I've known Tim since I. first worked out with him in like '98 at.

Machados. >> Well, he was in maybe the Navy. So, he. was in California stationed there and I. think that's when he started jiu-jitsu. He was Louisiana's first black belt. Oh, wow. >> Yeah. Yeah, I knew him from that and then he. was fighting and he was fighting in the. UFC. It's He was always around the MMA scene. Him and Yves Edwards were were good. friends. They opened a gym maybe in. Houston or something. He was cornering. Yves in Pride and then I met Yves. through Tim and it's just it's a big. family, man. Yves is a guy that I always. say there was a time where he was the. best 155 pounder on Earth.

>> When he beat Josh Thomson? Yes. He's the. uncrowned champion. >> should have been the uncrowned champion. >> There wasn't a belt. I know. Isn't that. nuts? [clears throat]. Isn't that nuts? That's so hard for. people to understand like how crazy it. is. Like being through the lineage of. Thugjitsu, man, it sucks to say like. that he can't say he was a champion with. but I know he was. >> He was. >> He was the best in the world. >> At one point in time, he was the best. I. he he lived out here before he moved to. LA. So, before I moved to South Florida. to train at American Top Team, I used to. drive 6 hours here and stay with Yves.

He always had wrestlers down here. This. is like beginning of my WEC days. I would drive down here and train with. Yves, man. He's. He was another guy who was ahead back in. the day. >> Yes. Cuz he comes from NHB, like hook. and shoot. >> Mhm. The crazy days, you know. And he was doing it all. Good jiu-jitsu, good kickboxing. He fell in love with. the wrestling. I was such a big fan of. Yves, man. He He invented some moves, too. You remember that one thing that he. would do where guys were on a single and. he hit a dude with a flying knee, a. jumping knee? That was.

uh Dude, I'm I'm a MMA historian, bro. I. That was EliteXC, I believe, maybe. Was. it? Um And you know that was. Edson Barboza. Was it? I think Andre. Barboza's brother, the boxer. Oh, wow. >> Yeah. Wow. But that that He had a single leg, he was hopping and then. jumped up and knee'd him out cold. Yeah, it was crazy. It is EliteXC. Look at. you, bro. I mean Play that again. Look. at this. This move is brilliant. That's. brilliant. >> That's Edson Barboza.

And I believe Andre and Edson's dad was. a mixed martial artist. Oh, wow. That's such a slick move. Yeah, he's so crafty, man. >> Oh, yeah. Well, that head kick that he. landed on Josh Thomson from the middle. of that wild crazy scramble jumping. roundhouse kick to the head. Dude, and. they still play it every opener of the. UFC. They still play it. As they should. I mean, it was incredible. >> Absolutely. Yeah, I got to You got to. give credit to Yves. He's He was one of. the real pioneers. For sure. And Way.

before this was cool. Way before. >> Yeah. But to be stuck at like 155, like. that was his weight class and then. there's no title? Yeah. They were the. two best guys in the world at that time, him and Josh Thomson. Yeah. Josh Thomson's another one doesn't get. the credit he deserves. That's it. Boom. Like what a slick move, man. But that. was Yves, very creative, you know? Yeah. Man, Josh Thomson like peak Josh. Thomson for me. What was it? Strike Force when him and. Gilbert.

Melendez maybe were going back and. forth. Didn't they have like a. >> Yeah. They might have had a trilogy. Might have been two two or three fights, but every fight was amazing. Gilbert. Melendez, another guy doesn't get the. credit he deserves. >> Dude, a legend. >> [sighs]. >> Legend, man. Legend. All those guys they. they were the groundbreakers. You know, a lot of these young kids. coming up, you bring up Gilbert. Melendez, they're like, "Who?" Like, bro, you need to know your history. You. need to know how this thing got started. Go watch. >> more newer stuff, go watch him and Diego. Sanchez. >> it out. >> Diego Sanchez is another guy that I say.

is a tweener, right? Cuz welterweight. Yeah. I mean, he really wasn't really a. welterweight. And he, you know, and. lightweight, I mean, he tried to get. down to 45 for a while, but that was. just brutal. He was killing himself. getting down to 45. I remember seeing. him making weight for 45. I'm like, "Oh, this ain't good.". >> going to last long. >> No. Yeah. But if like there was a 165-lb. weight class, Diego Sanchez might have. been the champion of the world. Right. Honestly, man, like when I was. competing, if they had a 65, I might. have entertained it. 70's just too big.

of a gap cuz I train with 70's in the. UFC, and I know they're 200-something. pounds. At my heaviest, I was like 182, 183, maybe. They're just too big, man. >> Well, you got guys like Rumble Johnson. when Rumble was alive. >> Yeah. Rumble got up to 230 lbs in between. >> No, he was huge, man. Huge. [laughter]. Huge. I can't believe he made 170. Every. He was he was living in South Florida, so I'd see him every now and then. He. was huge. This episode is brought to you. by Uber Eats. March is here, and Uber. Eats is delivering deals all month long.

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hub on Uber Eats for all the latest. deals and start saving today. He was the. ultimate like weight cutter. Like he cut. more weight than anybody. When he was. fighting at 170, it was bananas. Like. how are you doing this? I remember. running into him at a hotel. I was like, "Bro, how big are you?" And he was. laughing. He's like, "I'm 230 right. now." And muscle. Jacked. >> Yeah, muscle. >> Like a heavyweight. And he went up to. heavyweight and he beat Arlovski. >> Yep. Yep. Which is crazy. He was a legit. heavyweight. >> Yeah. Dude, Andrei is still fighting. I.

know and winning. The bare knuckle. champion? >> Winning. He's the bare knuckle champion. Like how durable is that [ __ ]. >> For the years and the miles that guy. has, I I have to say like. taking shots, receiving damage, I don't. know if he takes it like he obviously he. doesn't take it like he used to, but his. mobility and his movement for all the. wars he's had and the years he's been. fighting, when I watch him in the gym, dude he's light on his feet, flexible. >> Yeah. He moves so well. And enthusiasm. Still has enthusiasm for the game, which. is crazy. He He loves it. He clearly.

loves it. I mean he was what, UFC. heavyweight champion in 2005? >> Yeah. Wasn't it like 2005? 2005 or 2006, I. think he beat Tim Tim Sylvia, maybe? When he was the champ, first of all, that [ __ ] had a piston for a. right hand. Remember when he KO'd Paul. Buentello? Oh my god. >> That's a Texas guy. Paul Buentello, another another dude. I believe he's. from uh. Galveston area or Corpus Christi or. something. He's from Texas. Well, we if you think.

Arlovski from 2005. and he was a top 10 heavyweight as. recently as like 2023. Well, when he came back to the UFC after. that long gap, he went on a streak. He. had a bunch of great fights. I think he. knocked out Travis Browne. >> Browne, which is crazy. >> Did he fight Bigfoot? Did him and. Bigfoot. >> UFC 51 is when he won. >> [snorts]. >> 2005, February 5th, 2005. That is. bananas, man. That really is bananas. >> Man, back in the day, uh Tim Sylvia used.

to train at ATT when I first got there. He was the most uncoordinated, unathletic guy. I couldn't believe he. was a UFC champion, man. I know. He was. like goofy, pigeon-toed, but down to. fight. >> Oh, down to fight, yeah. Down to fight. Yeah, for sure pigeon-toed. His knees. were weird. Yeah. Yeah, they went in. Like I I don't I tried to talk to a a. trainer about that. He goes, "That's. learned. Like you can correct that." I. was like, "Are you sure?". >> Yeah. The knees bowed in like that was. He said that's a learn You could you. could correct that. I was like, "Really?

How do you What?" I never [snorts] heard. of that. Uh yeah. I I didn't understand. how you. >> like something they would do maybe when. you're born, surgery, like reposition. the bones or something, no? >> Well, I don't know if it is I don't. know. I mean, I I'd I'd have to I don't. want to speak out of turn. I I'd have to. bring in that guy and have him explain. to me how you could correct that. But. he's like, "That's something that could. be corrected. That's like learned. behavior." Huh. Is it from being so big? >> But dude, watching him with his toes. pointed out doing the ladder drills and. stuff, you know, the the ladders on the.

mat in and out, like it was so crazy. >> have their toes pointed out like that. Like Jelly Roll went from 500 lb and. he's down to the he's in the low 200s. now, which is crazy. >> Yeah. I saw pictures of him, looks. completely different. >> Bro, he's lost like 300 lb and he did it. the right way. No Ozempic, just like. diet, exercise, runs all the time, but. he has a problem when he walks, his toes. are pointed out and he's trying to. correct it. He's trying to be aware of. it. When he runs, he runs the right way,

like feet feet pointed forward. >> You see it too on the on the bigger. guys' shoes. They the corners of their. shoes are always flat like flat tires on. the outside. They just walk that way, man. Well, you got to think you have so. much weight. You got to You got to kind. of stretch out to kind of [snorts]. balance yourself. >> Yeah. But, I always. point to Tim Sylvia when he knocked out. Rico. Rico Rodriguez, that Oh. That Tim. Sylvia was a beast, dude. That was back. when all the Mexican supplements were. allowed.

There was a lot of dudes who were very. juicy. >> Oh, yeah. And Tim had giant traps and. huge [ __ ] shoulders and I remember he. struggled to get down to 265 for that. fight. Yeah, [snorts] back in the day with the. juice was just free flowing, man. I just. worked uh. the UFC desk with Bisping in Vegas when. Max and Charles fought. And we started. talking about the same thing we're. talking about now and he was like, "Oh, I fought Vitor. I fought them all in the. height of TRT." Right. >> he's fought a bunch of guys. >> legal juice, which was bananas. I mean,

Alistair Oh, yeah. That was the juiciest. fight of all time. Alistair versus. versus Brock was the juiciest fight of. all time. Yeah. I recently watched the. Mark Hunt documentary. And. he's trying to like push back and. do a lawsuit against the UFC for all the. juicing and stuff, but that means such a. Yeah. That's a tough. That's a tough road. Because how much can the UFC do? I mean,

and it's on the athletic commission as. well, right? Wouldn't the lawsuit be. against the state not the UFC? I think. his position is that the UFC knew. that But, how would they know? >> that Brock was juicing. I don't know. >> This is before random drug test, I. believe. Yes, it was before. So, that. would I feel like that would fall on the. state athletic commission. Maybe it. wasn't before. Cuz he did get popped. You know, but it wasn't random. They. weren't They wouldn't just show up in. camp. No. No, that the back in the day. you'd get tested on fight night. Right.

know, they wouldn't knock at your door. >> Well, it was super clear that. Brock was doing something. It was super. clear. Like he was like in his late 30s. Built like a [ __ ] like the side of a. barn. I mean, there was a bunch of guys. back then. >> Yeah, man. A bunch of guys. Yeah. But it. wasn't It was okay. Everybody was doing. it. Well, it wasn't. It wasn't, right? Cuz it was illegal, but it It was like. When you have. fight day drug tests, that's an. intelligence test. That's all that is.

Right. That's whether or not you have. good people in your corner and whether. or not you have a a chemist. >> to take this amount of weeks to get out. of your or this many days to get out of. your system. >> Well, there were certain camps that. would employ scientists. And these. scientists. >> are always going to be ahead, you know. They're always going to be coming up. with something new, trying to stay ahead. of the curve and get away with stuff. And I still think they're probably doing. it, man. Yeah. There's probably. something that we don't know right now. and it's going to come out in the. future. That's why they hold on to the. drug tests for a prolonged period of.

time. >> Yeah. They ask you your [snorts]. consent. You have to do an extra. signature if you let them test it or use. it for. What happens if you say no? I I don't. know. I never said no. I always give it to them. Well, it's. good for you because you're clean. Yeah, I competed my whole career clean, man. Nothing. Nothing. I was even scared of. certain creatine. Like I got the trusted. by sport on everything cuz I was so. scared to be one of those guys. Cuz. every time I see it, tainted supplement, yeah, sure, buddy. But you know, sure, tainted supplement, but it could be. You know, I don't want. to be one of those guys. >> Well, for sure there are tainted.

supplements. That's a real thing. And. you know, I know that for a fact because. as one of the owners of Onnit, when we. were doing um when we were doing. third-party testing of some of our. supplements, we would find stuff in. there that's not supposed to be in. there. And so we'd have to contact the. distributor, the manufacturer, and the. people that like mixed our stuff. So. what the way like Onnit would work is. like Alpha Brain has a bunch of. different ingredients that enhance your. you know your mental focus and clarity.

and we would give them the very specific. numbers of what's supposed to be in each. batch. >> Yeah. And then we would third-party. test. We find a bunch of [ __ ] in there. that's not supposed to be in there. And. it's because you know, if you're getting. it done overseas, they have these vats. where they mix all the stuff in and they. don't even clean the vats, man. >> Right. Right. They dump it out and then. they dump the new stuff in there without. cleaning it. >> There's residue in there and then also. the level of drug testing, how high. these things can sense anything. >> Right. Even if there's a tiny bit, they'll find it. Right, with Jon Jones,

right? It was picograms. We got. introduced to the term picograms. >> Pico. Like a grain of salt in a swimming. pool they could find, they say. >> Yeah. So, the testing is legit. And I'm. glad, you know, we're fighting. We're. kneeing each other in the in the face. If we were running track or something, I. would. >> Exactly. But we're fighting. You can get. seriously injured, man. So, I've always. been against the doping. But I'm retired. now, Joe. I'm [laughter] retired now. Now you can go through. Yeah, I love what you guys get Well, Cowboy got real jacked, too, afterwards. But then he talked about coming back and. then he got off of everything.

>> That's the thing though. Like [snorts]. always back in the day all the TRT guys, like if you change your body's natural. production of testosterone with. exogenous testosterone, you have to be. on it for the rest of your life. Well, you don't have to because there's things. called HCG and HCG and clomiphene can. restart your body's production of. testosterone. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's. >> know your testicles will stop producing. once you introduce foreign testosterone, right? Well, for a for a period of time, especially when you're a young man, you. can restart it. Uh but, you know, my.

production, I've been on TRT since I was. like late 30s. Like it's not coming. back. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm shooting blanks, son. Papow. You don't need You're good. But two of. my daughters were born while I was on. TRT. So, it does work. I just had limited. amount. I had soldiers, just one [ __ ]. special ops guy at the front line. only. one was marching. But he got through. Black Ops. Yeah. [clears throat] So, if you think about. like all of the time where people were.

allowed to dope, it is a giant. percentage of the history of MMA. Like. Pride. >> The further you go back, for sure. For. sure. >> For sure. Pride, it was juicy as juice. >> Yeah. Like. like Enson Inoue, when he was on the. podcast, told me that in the contract it. said in all capital letters, "We do not. test for steroids.". >> We aren't looking. I've heard I've heard. other people say that as well. We aren't. looking. Thumbs up, green light, let's. go. Shoot up the juice, come fight, we'll pay you cash, get out of here. They wanted you to juice. They wanted.

you to fight better, which is like Okay. It becomes a spectacle, but man, people. can get seriously injured. You can. Especially But then also the thing is. like does it make you more durable? I. think it does. >> you I think it does, man, because. just one that right off the top of my. head, when Bigfoot Silva was TRT or. whatever he was on, he was so durable. So durable. >> Him and Mark Hunt had those crazy. fights, but when he got off, he started. getting knocked out. Right. You know? But there's also the switch. There's. something that happens when you've had a. certain amount of concussions where.

that's a lot. >> Another another guy that comes to mind, remember Eric Silva? Yeah. >> Welterweight, was huge. Dude, whenever. they started doing the USADA stuff, he. was getting knocked out and just wasn't. himself. >> He didn't look the same. He melted. >> what the like medical reason for that. is, but I I think it has to something to. do with confidence and like self-belief. with the testosterone. They just I think. that's a big part of it. It's definitely. a part of it, but also there's a part of. it, your vitality. You're just more. durable. I mean, when you're jacked up. on testosterone, you're just more.

[ __ ] durable. Yeah. Everything about. you is more durable. Alistair's a great. example of that. >> Like animal mode, man. You just. >> Yeah, man. Dude, I I. I think Alistair Overeem, when he was. Ubereem, I think that is the best. argument for TRT ever. Looked like a superhero. Bro, when he. was in K-1 and he was shelling up, how. you getting through that? How you. getting through that shell? >> Remember how small he was though back in. K1? He was like a 205 or. >> Well, no, in Pride. >> Pride. >> Pride when he was fighting at light. everyone Chuck knocked him out. Liddell. knocked him out when he was a legit. light heavyweight and he was skinny.

>> Yeah. And then young and skinny. He just. decided time to get big. Yeah. Look at. him back then when he fought Shogun. Still pretty jacked though. Oh, yeah, man. He was shredded. He was shredded, but he was a a shredded light. heavyweight. You know, he I think he's a. vegan now. I Dude, look at that. >> Come on, son. Come on, son. >> a ribeye. That ain't vegan right there. >> to that other one. That's what I'm. talking about. I mean, that's what a UFC. heavyweight champion is supposed to look. like. Come on, son. I mean,

>> Put that on the Put that on the White. House card. Not just that, but highly. skilled. >> For sure. He wasn't just jacked. He was. highly I mean, he's a K1 Grand Prix. champion. I mean, that dude was the. cream of the crop at kickboxing. He was the cream of the crop in MMA and. he even won the Abu Dhabi European. trials as a pure grappler. >> Yeah, people don't know about that about. Alistair his grappling is is high level. >> Very He had one of the best guillotines. in the game. Like Alistair in his prime.

when when he went over and he fought. Brett Cooper over in Was it Brett. Cooper? Who did No, who did he [ __ ]. fight in Strikeforce? Like Brett Rogers. Brett Rogers, that's. right. Sorry. I'm thinking of the. heavyweight. >> boxer. Brett Cooper. Brett Cooper. >> Who fought. He had some crazy wars with um. with Evander. Evander Holyfield. I I. think Evander's down in South Florida. too now. I don't remember Cooper. He was a really He was a tank. He was a.

tank. He was a real super jacked guy. But Brett Rogers when he fought. Alistair, Alistair like immediately hit. him with a low kick and you could tell. he was like, "What is this?". >> Yeah. Like it was a different kind of. low kick cuz you're dealing with the. tree trunks of Alistair with perfect. technique and that guy was as good a. kickboxer as has ever entered into MMA. And when he was saucy, he was a problem. >> Yeah. He was a real [ __ ] problem. Speaking of kickboxers from that era.

coming to MMA, did didn't Gökhan Saki. come over? >> Oh, yeah. >> I thought he was going to do, you know, so much better, but he's he was older. He was older and he was at a time where. it's like, you know, he had had so many. fights in K-1. You know, he had he had so many wars. And he fought Khalil when you know, Khalil's fast as [ __ ]. >> I mean, good kickboxer. >> Real good kickboxer. >> Thai style. Khalil cracked him in the. first round and and knocked him out. >> Yeah. Yeah, which was a big fight for.

Khalil because, you know, Gökhan was the. Turkish Tyson, was coming over here. You. know, it was one of those guys like. Mirko Cro Cop was like an elite. kickboxer who's entering into MMA and. everybody always gets excited about. that. Obviously, Pereira is the best. example of that. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. But he was a guy I knew. I told. everybody. I was like, that guy is going. to be a nightmare for everybody because. there's something about him, man. I. don't know what the hell is going on. with his bone structure, his DNA, and. his intelligence. Like he figures [ __ ].

out that other people didn't like the. way he threw that low kick, like the way. he throws that calf kick with zero. towel, no turning of the hips. Like he [ __ ] up guys' calves better. than anybody on the planet. >> like a huge rush of the calf kick. I saw. it for like a year and a half, 2 years. Everybody was doing it. Now it's kind of. fading away. I've noticed that. It is. but not with him. It's not with elite. guys, guys that are really good at it. >> so much damage, man, so quickly. And. it's so much it's less commitment. So. you're not giving you don't have to turn. your hips over as much, so wrestlers.

aren't grabbing singles as easy. >> I remember your fight with Jim Miller. >> It's just like Oh, dude, tore for up. Yeah, that was that was one of the first. examples of calf kicks being really. [ __ ] dangerous. >> And I've never felt it before. And it. and I'm a southpaw, so to land good calf. kicks, you'd have to fight another. southpaw, right? And that doesn't happen. too often, especially with one who's. throwing those. So, I didn't know what kind of black. magic he was doing, bro. I was like, >> [laughter]. >> I got to I got a flat tire. What is. going on? What is this? I know. >> Isn't it crazy that it took that long. for people to figure that out?

Ben Henderson was a guy doing it early. >> But it wasn't that effective for some. reason. >> Yeah, he was doing it, but he wasn't. having the devastating damage. >> I'm trying to think of who's the first. guy to really Edson Barboza would do it. every now and then. Mhm. Trying to think. of somebody who really brought it over. Bro, it's made its way into kickboxing. now. It's cuz they were saying like the. Muay Thai guys are not susceptible to. calf kicks. And I everybody was saying. that. I was like, that doesn't make a. lot of sense to me. >> They are light on their front foot, so. that front foot is They are, but there's. times where they have to plant, like.

when they're throwing a right kick. There's a guy named Yuki Yoza, Yuki. Yoza, who fights for One. He's a. Kyokushin guy, and he is [ __ ]. everybody up with calf kicks. >> Yeah. He he fights. like high guard, tight inside, and. again, no pivot of the hips. He's. essentially throwing his calf kick. almost like he's kicking a soccer ball. straight up the middle. >> the way I like to do it as well. Mhm. >> Just clip the top of the calf. There's. no commitment. You don't have to pivot. your hips or plant to turn. You can just. snap it out like a jab. Yeah, well,

great example of the changing of. technique was you in that Conor fight. Yeah, calf. Yes. >> And it was also southpaw versus. southpaw. >> Exactly. Same thing. You just destroyed. that calf. And you could tell he didn't. know what to do because as good as he. was and as many fights as he had, two-division world champion, he hadn't. been calf kicked. >> Right. Which is a crazy transition when. you see like the history of the sport. That is one of the clear differentiation.

the the differentiation. That's another. word that's fake. That's the clear line. in the sand where the techniques. changed. Yeah, and it's one of those things like. before it happened to me, I saw it and I. was like, "Ah, it might be. uncomfortable." And but until it happens. and you have a different respect for it. So, Conor probably learned a lot that. fight, man. Like, this is for real. Calf. kicks are for real. What's [ __ ] is. just one shot. That's what's crazy about. it. Cuz a thigh kick, like you can get a. hard thigh kick and your leg goes dead. for a couple seconds, but it comes back.

Yeah, the calf. Calves don't really come back that. quick. >> They explained it to me at the hospital. after the Jim Miller thing. Apparently, your calf doesn't have the chambers for. the fluid to drain. So, that's why it. gets compartment Oh, compartment. syndrome? >> it's so painful cuz it it can't like go. out through your the swelling can't go. out through your whole leg. So, it sits. in one pocket and fills up and it's just. uncomfortable. It can stop nerves and Do. you ever see what happened to Austin. Hubbard? Dude, that's what they wanted. to do. After the Jim Miller fight, they. wanted to cut me at the I was like, "No. way." No way.

Fillet you to release the pressure. Well, another guy, Urijah Faber, when he. fought Jose Aldo, his leg blew up like a. balloon. Yeah. Apparently, if it gets. that bad, compartment syndrome, and the. swelling's bad enough for long enough, you can lose function of your ankle and. foot. Yeah, which is crazy, right? Well, Urijah was one of the first guys. to implement. going into um. What What can't I think of it? The. [ __ ] chamber, oxygen chamber. Hyperbaric. >> Hyperbaric. Hyperbaric.

What's wrong with me today? I'm making up fake words, can't come up. with things that I know. But, he was. using the hyperbaric like exclusively to. recover from that and then and. documenting it. And I was like, "Oh, that's interesting." A lot of good uh. brain benefits for hyperbaric. I don't I. don't have one. I've done it before, but. it's never been like a routine thing. Well, it's you have to have access to. it. And also the tent the tents, the zip-up. tents at home Not as strong. >> Yeah, you need a solid You know, you. need like one of those propane tank. ones, those big thick walled ones.

>> The glass like it's really good high. pressure in there. >> and then, you know, you got to be. careful on those things. You can't no. sparks. Yeah, dude, I saw a story that a. kid was in one and you saw that? Yeah. Horrible. Yeah, horrible story. Yeah. Um, but hyperbaric is awesome for. recovery. It's also it lengthens there's. a protocol that developed. one of the universities in Israel. developed it where you do 60 sessions. over 90 days and it lengthens your. telomeres that's commensurate with I.

think it's like a 20-year difference in. your biological age. >> Wow. It's nuts. It's super effective. Like when you get a lot of oxygen into. your system like that just helps. everything recover. >> For sure. Like if you have an aura ring. or a whoop strap and you go into one of. those things it shows you. It's like, oh, you have an amazing recovery day. Yeah, man, the metrics we can track now. with all the wearable devices is pretty. awesome, dude. Well, it gets you to. understand like I think you can get a. little addicted to those things. For.

sure. I I So, when I was competing I. stopped using them. Cuz every day wasn't. ready, need to rest, red, red, red every. day. So, when I retired I got back to. it. Now I'm using them, but like. when you're training for a fight you. can't Isn't that interesting? >> taking 2 days off. I need to train. The. fight's coming up. Like if I'm in the. red zone I still need to train. I know, isn't that interesting? Like there's. a wearable device would tell you you're. not supposed to train, but yet you know, in order to reach MMA peak physical. condition you have to push when you're.

not ready so that your body's forced to. recover quicker. I know this guy's. training. That's why I got rid of it. During camp I don't use it. Didn't use. it. But it's weird because like what if. you listen to it? Like some people say. like Terence Crawford was talking about. like there's times where he wanted to. push where his coaches told him not to. and then he realized they were right. Yeah, maturing through fighting men, pulling back. got easier as I got older. When I was a. younger fighter, I didn't want to take. any time off. I needed to be as many.

reps, as much time on the mats as. possible. But as I got to like mid-30s, 36, I was like, you know, this is I got. to take days off. Complete days. Complete days. Not just an easy day or a. technique day. I just need to be out of. the gym. >> Just relax. [sighs]. >> Yeah, reset my mind to where I want to. be there. Just hard for fighters because. you operate on momentum of the. conditioning and the training and the. discipline and it's like you're in there. and then to to have a day where you're. not, you feel like you're slipping. backwards. >> Right. And you show up to fight week. with that momentum, like I. did everything I could. I bust my ass.

every day. Like it just gives you so. much. energy and so much confidence going into. fight week. You've turned over every. stone. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, the worst thing though is. seeing a fighter fight flat cuz you know. they overtrained. And the one thing that. I always point to is when um Tim Kennedy. fought Kelvin Gastelum. and he had gone through two solid camps. in a row. So he went through one camp, peaked, got ready for the fight and then. the fight got canceled and then went. right back into camp for to train for. Gastelum and didn't give himself the.

chance to recover. And you know, he's. too tough. Yeah. Too tough, too. disciplined and his body broke down. >> You're redlining that engine over and. over and over. I mean, we just saw it. with Merab, I think. You know, not that. taking into anything away from Yan, but. you know, you stay that busy, those kind. of fights, those training camps, I mean, it's hard to do. That's what makes. things like Jon Jones, Khabib so. impressive to me, man. Mhm. To get on. top and stay on top that long, you know. Yeah. I know, it's nuts. There's so few guys. have been able to do that. >> Especially in MMA. Too many variables.

Too many ways to slip on a banana peel, get caught in something, you know. >> I know. I kind of love that Khabib went. out on top. And never came back. Respect. Like that's awesome. And they. offered him a lot of [ __ ] money to. come back. He's like, "Nope." Yeah. Nope. Good for him, man. Yeah, good for. him. >> Yeah. That's the way to do it. And then. you go out all your faculties, everything's fine, undefeated, go down a. legend. Right. Yeah. Like I think Floyd should have did it, you know, like that. Now he's [ __ ]. [ __ ] fighting Mike Tyson, dude. Come on,

man. I know. There were some rumors. around that Floyd was going to have a. rematch with Conor, which is crazy. But I think Conor would probably do it, especially if there weren't any drug. testing involved. >> if he's going to come back at For sure, yeah. [laughter]. But man, to heal from an injury like he. had, you probably need a bunch of stuff. to I don't know the ins and outs of. that, but you probably need some help to. heal. He definitely needs some help to. heal. The problem is once you get used. to that help. and you enjoy it. Yeah, I'm I'm getting.

used to the help. I know, that's what I thought about. Cowboy when he got jacked and then he. was like he's going to in the he slimmed. back down again. He said he was going to. fight again, but. >> [snorts]. >> I get I think he might have abandoned. that. I got hooked up with Brigham and. Ways to Well. They did all my blood when. I retired and got me. I turned down no testosterone for me. So. I'm not on any testosterone. I just. don't want to mess up my natural. production cuz mine wasn't high, but it. wasn't low. I'm just scared to mess with. it, you know. Yeah, you don't need it. and it's peptides. >> can do a lot for you. Yeah, I'm on a. bunch of peptides. >> Yeah, peptides are the way to go.

>> And I feel great. Honestly, I wish I could have been on this [ __ ]. when I was fighting, man. >> I know. You know, especially like the. growth hormone releasing stuff like Like. tesamorelin. Exactly. Like I could have. I could have done hard every day, man. As I got older, it got harder, man. I. know and all it does is help your body. recover. It's not like it gives you some. sort of a performance enhancing boost or. >> definitely helps with like fat. mobilization and and and stuff like. that, but just being able to push hard.

every day is huge in fighting, man. Well, just BPC 157, which offers no. performance enhancing, but would help. you heal soft tissue injuries because. you're getting injured. You're just. getting small injuries every day. training. Every time you get leg kicked, every time you get punched in the. stomach, arm barred, shoulder locked, everything. Everything. Your joints are. always messed up. >> Always. Always. And if you wanted. fighters to perform better, something. that would allow them to heal better is. only good. And it's not It's not going. to make you run faster, it's not going.

to make you jump higher, it's not going. to make you an Overeem. We're not. talking about that. I I'm not even sure. if that's banned. I haven't checked the. It is? BBC 157's banned. Yeah, and it's. unfortunate. Yeah, creatine, protein. powders, that's the same stuff. You just. recover better. Well, creatine's not. banned. Creatine's not banned, thank. god. But creatine in the 1990s were. thought of the same way as steroids. >> Right, yeah, yeah. I remember. People. thought like creatine's cheating. Oh my. god, you're taking creatine. They They. literally put it in the same category as. ster- And they realized, "Oh, it's.

actually a part of food." Great for your. brain. Great for you. Great for. everything. Yeah. I just talked I just talked my wife into. starting creatine. Women need it more than men, I was. reading. Right. You know, so my wife's. just started. I think the key is to like make sure. you're hydrated, too. And then make sure. you're not taking too much of it, and. make sure you get your blood checked, and so you're not putting a lot of. pressure on your kidneys. But like. dehydration and kidneys, that Like that. is one of the big things that happens to. a lot of fighters that cut a lot of. weight. They start getting kidney. stones.

I mean, Jose Aldo dealt with that. Uh DC. famously got pulled out of the Olympics. cuz he was having kidney failure. Yeah, your kidneys, man, they don't like. you being drained out like that. >> a few weight cuts where I felt pain in. my back. And I I think that's kidneys. 100%, man. It's kidney shots. Didn't. happen often, but I've definitely had. it. Tightness. It feels kind of like. cramping in a weird place you never had. before in your back. That's spooky. You're drying out your organs. And then. fighting for your life 24 hours. It was. nice though when I started making it to.

[snorts] the top of the cards, co-main. event, main event, cuz then you have. like 30-something hours to rehydrate. If. you're fighting early prelims in Vegas, Right. >> two or three in the afternoon, Right. >> it's Right. not too long. Especially. back in the day when weigh-ins were at. 5:00 or 6:00 p.m. Mhm. >> There wasn't a morning in ceremonial. Right. The real weigh-ins were at 5:00. and you were going to fight at 2:00 the. next day. Yeah, those were nuts. That. was crazy. Yeah, it was crazy when guys. would like shuffle to the scale for the. real weigh-in. Mhm. And you'd see them. all like like a skeleton. And you're.

facing off with your opponent trying to. be tough. >> I know. both dying. Well, I was just. remember Jose Aldo versus Conor. Conor. looked like he was one of the walking. dead. >> Yeah. He looked like a zombie. He was so. skinny. >> His face bones? Yeah. See if you can. find that. And he was also crazy like. Yeah. Like flexing. >> crazy. hyped up with no like no body. fat, no water, just completely dehydrated. Like look at. that. Look at that. The eyes eyes sunken.

in. That is nuts. That guy weighed 145. and he probably weighed 170. or at least 165. when he got into the actual octagon that. day. I wonder if he does come back, I. wonder what he's going to come back at. Like lightweight or welter? Well, the real key is if. If. I mean, he's had a lot of opportunities. And I don't know. >> I thought the I thought the. Chandler fight was a layup for him. That's the fight. >> A great match up for him. Great fight. technically. It's a great fight. stylistically. It's a great fight. age-wise. Chandler's got to be what? 39.

now? He's up there. 38 or 39, yeah. I. mean, and then there was the hype of The. Ultimate Fighter. True. But it's just a. layup for Conor. Chandler's hittable, covers distance, not that technically, you know, huge movements. >> Right. You jump in, you get carried out. Conor's a sniper, man. I just think. that's a great match up for him. It's. also a great match up for Chandler cuz. he doesn't get tired. >> And he and he gets that you know, cuz he. sat out for 2 years waiting on waiting. on Conor. It's also like remember him. with Oliveira? Even in the [ __ ] third.

round, that dude is carrying Oliveira up. and and throwing him through the air and. body slamming him while he's on his. back. >> Yeah. Like the dude has he has. incredible endurance and incredible. discipline. He's always fit. >> Yeah. And that's been Conor's Achilles'. heel. I said Conor, he's so explosive. and so fast that if you're sprinting in. that first round, guaranteed you're not. going to have that same kind of energy. in the fifth round. >> Yeah. But some guys are just designed. like that, you know, you saw Tyron. Woodley is a guy who has huge explosion, but they don't necessarily keep that for.

for 25 minutes. But on the opposite side. of that you got a guy like Nate Diaz. Right. >> who will keep that same pace from round. one to five. >> Round 30. Yeah. >> That dude could fight every fight round. 30. Right. >> out of a cannon, you know, and then slow. down. >> Mhm. Just the way muscles and fibers are. put, you know, connected. I don't know. what does that to to a human. >> Well, the only guys that figured out how. to fight with all that bulk and just is. like Yoel Romero. He fought very smart. It was just like. >> He's. still fighting. Still fighting. Dude's.

still fighting. Jacked. 50 years old. Jacked. More jacked than ever. Yeah. 48. years old, 49 years old with abs looking. like a [ __ ] super athlete. >> he's doing bare knuckle maybe. Yeah, he. did bare knuckle. He did dirty boxing. There's a there's a fight where he had. in dirty boxing where he's he's touching. the dude up and then out of nowhere he. just leaps up into the air. He does like. a vertical. He did his like a five-foot. vertical, lands on his feet and just. starts putting on a dude like, "I'm. tired of this. Let me show you what I.

can really do." I've had fun don't play. with the food. >> I've had fun. He's a crazy he's been on the mats a. bunch at American Top Team as well and. just a freak athlete, man. >> Freak. He's the freak of all freaks. >> freak athlete. >> Yeah. I mean, he came out of that Cuban. program. >> them different over there. Yeah, they. build them with science. >> Yeah. >> [snorts]. >> Yeah. But he also figured out how to. pace himself. You know, he figured out how to like. explode out of nowhere, but not explode. the entire time. Like he had this. casual, almost he would lull you into a.

false sense of security and then just. pounce on you. >> Right. Like that knee he hit with. Weidman with. Dude, that was. a perfect example. Perfect example. because you get used to this kind of. pace. You're getting into the rhythm and then. you just break it up. But also he didn't fight like. Obviously he's a wrestler, he didn't. wrestle too too hard and really gas. himself out. He fought smart to to do. what he's good at. He barely used his. wrestling in MMA which is so crazy. >> Yeah. It's really crazy if you think. about how good of a wrestler he was cuz.

he's one of the best wrestlers to ever. compete in MMA. I mean that dude was. elite as a wrestler and in MMA he's just. starching people. Yeah. When Luke. Rockhold and he starched Luke like that. was crazy. Luke's another guy still fighting. I think. I think he might be done now. You know, when he got knocked out by Darren Till. in the boxing, I think that might be it. Yeah. I think that might be it. And Darren. Till's got a resurgence, man. As a. boxer, he looks [ __ ] fantastic. I I I.

I saw the highlights of that but I. haven't seen the whole lot. >> Bro, he looks real good. He looks real. cuz. >> He's always been a good striker. Very. good striker and his Achilles' heel has. been his knees. You know, he's had some. serious knee problems and it really. impeded him from being able to train. hard and he wasn't the best grappler in. the world and so that was always his. problem. But as a striker, I mean that. guy was like very very good and you're. seeing him now in boxing. Like he's. making a real run. I think it's very. interesting because. if you watch him box Rockhold and you.

realize like Rockhold's a really good. striker but against Darren Till he. looked like he had no business in there. >> Yeah. >> [snorts]. >> That's something I would like to do, man. Box. Still? I always wanted to have. a couple before I you know, but I'm. still under contract even though I'm. retired I still have a contract with the. UFC so. >> the UFC would let you out or they have. Zuffa boxing now? >> Dude, so they don't. Trust me, I already pitched it to them. >> Did you? >> Me and Nate Diaz, Zuffa Boxing, and. let's go. >> Let's go. >> 170, whatever. 168, super middleweight, let's do it. They don't want any. crossover. What? They, I think Zuffa wants to be.

taken as a serious. >> money? They must hate money. >> hate money? >> They hate money. >> Why do they hate money? I don't know. They They want to be taken by the boxing. world serious. And I think if you open. that door of a MMA guy fighting under. Zuffa Boxing, every guy on the roster, every girl on the roster is going to. want to do the same. It just becomes a mess, I think. I don't know about that. I don't think. it's a mess. >> I think there are some really fun MMA. boxing matches you can make. Yes. [ __ ]. yes, you know? Especially when guys get. older and, you know, you don't want to. go through the training camp with.

wrestling and leg kicks and all that. [ __ ]. >> That's the thing, like thinking about a. a boxing training camp, dude, with no grappling, no wrestling, just run, condition, and box, it would. be smooth sailing. Dude, I would love. it. Yeah. I'm on the beach, man. >> tough as boxing is, like you feel like, "Oh, this is going to be so nice." Yeah. >> Yeah. Honestly, man, in training camp, those are my favorite days. Striking, sparring is my favorite days. Like the. wrestling class, 2-hour mako on Monday. is like brutal, bro. Well, it'd be great. for you because you've always had great.

hands. Like for you, that's a perfect. Well, I started I started boxing before. mixed martial arts. Mhm. That would be a perfect way for you to. get some other fights in. I don't. understand Zuffa. Yeah. I would just. love to lace them up and and box. professionally once. I know they want to. like redo boxing, and I know they want. to like, and I think there's probably. some real merit there. Obviously what. the Saudis have done with Riyadh season. has been amazing, you know, making. match-ups that no one can make.

consistently. >> Benn fan, too, man. I'm excited to see. him fight in Zuffa. And the guy he's. fighting's from New Orleans, like I know. the guy, like, you know, it's it's fun. It is exciting, and it will definitely, I think they will elevate boxing. And. Dana is throwing all of his cards into. that, so I'm sure it's going to work. Yeah, I'm I'm glad we're seeing more. boxing, Zuffa boxing, and less Power. Slap on my feed whenever I go to. online stuff, you know. >> Yeah, I'm not a big fan. I've never been. to one, but man, it's just [ __ ] not. my not my jam. >> Yeah.

When we when I fought my retirement in. New Orleans, Mike Brown went to the. Power Slap they had there, and he said. it was awesome in person. Oh, sure, it's. awesome to watch someone get slapped, but like I'm not interested. I watch it on my [ __ ] phone every now. and then. I'll see someone. >> highlights are good enough. You see the. knockouts and the crazy stuff, but. >> It's great TikTok content. For sure. Yeah, you watch someone get. slapped, and they they go forward, and. their head hits the desk, and then they. fall backwards, but it's like it's a. concussion. You're watching concussion. >> There's no defense. There's no like You.

can't flinch, or you get It's penalty if. you do. >> That's crazy. That don't make any sense. to me. I don't I don't get it. But I think they've missed out on the. opportunity to have a Muay Thai league. That's what I think. >> I just America just doesn't buy into it. that big. >> that's true. >> No? No. No, I just think they have. missed out. >> one is doing it on Amazon, and you know, >> But it's like who's watching Amazon? That's the problem. You have a show on. Amazon like I know guys who've released. comedy specials on Amazon. Like good. luck finding it. Nobody cares. That's.

just the reality of this platform. Whatever I mean, look, Amazon is a. phenomenal platform for buying stuff. I. love it for buying things. I use it all. the time. >> week. It's great for buying books, audiobooks. It's great for buying. products. But for watching content, it's kind of a. mess. They had a couple big shows like. The Marvelous Mrs. Maisel and The. Terminal List. Those are great shows, and those brought a lot of people over. there, but I mean, you know how big The. Terminal List would have been if it was. on Netflix? As big as it was on Amazon? More people watch Netflix than ever are.

ever going to watch anything on Amazon. >> and MMA there. Like it's it's big, man. It's big. So many people are going to be. watching this. 100%. But I think that if one was somewhere. else, I think it would have been There. you go. on the way here today. What? Yeah, I thought Yeah, that got announced. this morning. An MMA fight? >> It's with the Yeah, it's the third fight. on that card now. >> That's the Rousey card, yeah. Oh, wow. Interesting. That's very interesting.

That's very interesting. That's a good. fight. Dude, you said a lot of people. don't go to Amazon to watch TV? I just. went I just went down a rabbit hole for. weeks cuz I have a newborn at home. So I. did the night shift and I ran out of. [ __ ] to watch on Netflix and on Hulu ran. out of [ __ ] to watch on Netflix. >> Dude, staying up till 4:00 a.m. every. night with a baby boy is like I. >> [laughter]. >> hours of documentaries, hours of stuff. I switched over to Amazon and it was. like a whole new world, man. Well, there's a lot on there. It's just they. don't have the same viewers. Like our. podcast is on Amazon. The numbers that.

we get from Amazon compared to. everywhere else is so small. Yeah. It's. just the reality of the way they've sort. of marketed it and Amazon Prime Video. just doesn't have the audience that. everything else does. >> Right. And it's such a big platform, you. think it would be crossover from. I think it's a mistake on their part. because the the. the product side is so big. And like. Amazon for buying stuff is so big that. it's almost like an afterthought. [snorts]. And then they put some money in it, but. not the same sort of focus. Also, the.

interface when I've gone to it is a. little weird. It's hard to find things. It's not as simple. Like the interface. on Netflix is like the algorithms great. It's really good at recommending you. things. It knows what you like. It shows. you things. It's easy to find things. For sure. Amazon's like a little tricky. You go there and you're like, "What?". But see, the One FC thing faces the same. problem that the PFL has. Like look, PFL. is on ESPN+ so you would imagine PFL. would get the same sort of audience that.

the UFC got, but it doesn't. >> No, of course not. Because the UFC brand. is like NFL. Like the machine. It's just. Yeah, they they own that space. But the. fights on One FC are [ __ ] amazing. Like especially the Muay Thai fights. >> small gloves? >> Oh my god, man. And I was trying to. pitch this to Dana. So I started send. sending Dana. He goes, "Send me some.". So I started sending him all these like. high-level Muay Thai fights and.

high-level kickboxing fights. And. they're [ __ ] phenomenal. Look, he. didn't like the Charles Oliveira this. >> [clears throat]. >> Excuse me. This Max Holloway Charles Oliveira. fight. He didn't like it. Like the BMF. fight was like the fight wasn't that. good. I was like, I thought it was a. great fight. >> It was impressive if you were a fan of. technique and a fan of how hard it is to. do that to somebody like Max. Like super. impressive. >> And I was a fan of Max's defense. I. mean, Oliveira was on his back in the. first round. A lot of people would have. got finished. >> First first minute and a half, I think,

you know, dry. Dry, right? I got finished there. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, I mean, I think Oliveira is one of the greatest. submission artists that ever competed in. the sport, if not the best. >> Numbers I mean, numbers prove it. >> Yeah, and against elite guys like you. and like Justin and like he's [ __ ]. >> Gamrot, dude. Gamrot is I trained with. him for years. He's a wrestler, but his grappling is. incredible, man. >> got tied up in knots with Oliveira. Oliveira is a nightmare. >> it could happen, but I didn't think it. would be. you know. I was stunned, too. I was.

like, "God, he's good. He's so good on. the ground." So like props to Max for. surviving. But if Dana didn't like it, so I started sending him For for the I. mean, when you have the title of the. BMF, like you want to see some violence. I understand, but it's still just a. fight. You can't fight outside of your. Just because a BMF belt's on the line, you can't go out swinging for the. fences, but I get it. I get what you're. saying. But I mean, on the feet, I think. Oliveira was winning on the feet, too. >> Dude, he hurt Max in the first. I think. he hurt him in the fifth. Well, he. definitely hurt him in the fifth when.

they did the point down on the ground. thing. And then he cracked him and. rocked him. Oliveira is [ __ ] good, man. >> He is, man. He is. He's just known we. put the label on the grappler because. he's finished so many guys and so many. bonuses, but he can strike, man. >> He's good everywhere. Like with the. Chandler fight, he almost gets finished. in the first round, comes back and hits. him with a clean left hook in the. second. >> Yeah. He's [ __ ] good, man. >> Yeah, knocked him out. Even when I. fought him, like he he did a good job of. picking where the fight happened. He. wouldn't fight me in boxing range. It. was either all the way in clinch or out. where he was keeping my body, staying. long. Kicking range or clinching range.

is kind of where he fought me. Mhm. The. times I did have success was in the. boxing range, but he didn't let that. happen. You know. It just shows you how. [ __ ] good Ilia Topuria is. [ __ ] God. damn that dude. >> Dude, I love Justin. I love I'm a fan. I. don't like this match up for him. Well, you know what? I mean, Justin knows what. he's getting into and it's hard to count. that dude out. He's such an animal. Yeah, he can land the shot, but. >> And it's in the White House. Who knows? Who knows what's going to happen, but. that dude has the touch of death. Yeah.

He has the touch of death. >> And he's not a big guy. I've never seen. him in person, but I was talking to. somebody recently and they said, "No, he's 5'7", you know. >> He's small, man. He's not big. Yeah. I. mean, there's a photo of me standing. next to him when we did the podcast. We're standing next to him. He's much. smaller than me. And bro, he puts people. into the shadow realm. >> Yeah. It's just technique and and. confidence. His confidence is crazy. He had a He had a victory party for the. Oliveira fight the night before. >> Drinking wine. I saw I saw him drinking.

I think he was drinking water I think he. was drinking water the night before, but. he has drank wine in weigh-ins. When. he's getting ready to weigh in or what. do you the weight cut? He's. He only did that for two camps, he told. me though. He said it's too much. I was like, "Fucking hung over the next day. Like, what am I doing?" Right, and you're. about to get your brain beat up. You're. dehydrating, you're drink come on. Well, I think he's dehydrating himself and. he's said the wine actually helps you. get dehydrated. >> Yeah, alcohol definitely does. Yeah, which is But it's nobody does that. Nobody drinks wine for the weigh-ins. That's crazy. >> And like. I'm so I'm not drinking anything. I'm so.

depleted by that time, you know. >> I know, and he's getting hammered. >> [laughter]. >> Lucky. And winning world championships. Well, it was only two fights he did that. for, so it became like something where. people were pretending he does it every. weigh-in. >> He's got all these young fighters out. there in the world drinking on weigh-in. day. [laughter]. I'm going to be like the champ, man. Yeah, but he's he's he's. crazy talented. >> For sure. For sure. >> way. >> Whatever it is, he has it. Yeah, he has. Yeah. He's got it in his mind, he's got. it in his technique, his grappling's. fun. I watched a video of him grappling.

with Merab, and he was all over Merab. And that's crazy. >> They That's what they say, his. grappling's just as good if not better. than his his stand-up. That's where he. started. He started as a grappler. >> I've never seen him grapple, though. Well, he finished um Bryce Mitchell on. the ground, and uh he's he's finished a. few people on the ground. He's he's like. he does clearly have phenomenal. submission ability. What are you showing. me here? What is this, him? He says he's done it. for a long time. Yeah, you can see his. face is already sucked in a little bit.

He said that when he was on the podcast. though, that he only did it twice. >> 3 years ago. That's hilarious. Look, he's all tipsy and drunk. Look, I tell. this to young fighters There's no right. I mean, obviously don't smoke crack. before a fight. >> [laughter]. >> There's no right or wrong way. Everybody's different. Whatever makes. you feel comfortable to perform and. compete, like everybody's different. There's If there was a cookie-cutter. perfect way to work, everybody would do. it. Well, look at Carlos Condit. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Smoking cigarettes. Smoking cigarettes like the day of the. fight. He's sitting there smoking. Marlboro Reds.

>> Darts. Darts. [laughter]. Who is it? A boxer? [ __ ] everybody up. there. >> Back in the day. Oh, yeah, Mayorga. Mayorga. >> Ricardo Mayorga. >> Yes. Yes. He was smoking cigarettes. Yeah, drinking and [ __ ]. uh Carlos drinking whiskey, smoking. cigs, like He's like, "I'm always going. to party and always going to [ __ ] people. up.". >> Respect. >> Yeah, I mean, he's going to fight. Is he. fighting Jack Della Maddalena? Is that. the fight? I'm not sure yet. >> that's the fight in Perth. That is a. very good fight. Yeah, a tough one for. Jack to come back to, man. >> Mhm. I was in I was in MSG when when.

Islam took the belt from him, dude. Complete domination. >> Well, that's another guy. Like how good. is that guy? >> And Ilia was talking about fighting him, too. You know, the size difference would. be so big. So big. Islam is huge. >> He's huge. >> He's too big for 55 and then you see him. at 170, like how did you ever make 55? >> Right. He's cuz he's so dominant at 170. Yeah, Hunter. uh from the UFC, I was in his office not. too long ago and I they keep record of. all the weights fight night. They don't.

release them all, but they keep it and. we were talking about the Islam fight. when I fought Islam and he was telling. me his weight. I was like, that's. insane. >> 192 or something, I think. The day of. the fight? >> so, yeah. That's crazy. >> Something 190, 191, something around. there. That's crazy. >> 176. That's crazy. But it looks like it. in the cage. Like whenever No, I looked. across and under those spotlights and. they had veins in his shoulders and. [ __ ] I'm like, [ __ ] this guy's huge. The ones where I'm like, how? Gregory. Rodrigues is the one where I'm like, how? >> Yeah. How? How? How are you 185? How?

Mhm. You're 6'3. You're you're built. like a Greek god. How? How do you ever. weigh 185? How's that even possible? Whenever I interview him, I'm like, how? Right. Cuz. I'm standing next to you. and I'm like, that doesn't make any. sense. Like this doesn't You're not 185. lb. You're huge. Like in his prime when. Luke Rockhold was a champion, he's huge, man. >> Huge. Huge. Huge. 185. Yeah. Yoel Romero. is the the best example. Like how? How.

are you 185? >> Built like an anvil, dude. Solid all the. way through. When he came in to do the. podcast and Joey Diaz translated for. him, he was like 230. Yeah. Just like. his neck starts at the top of his head. Just just a tank. >> And shredded always. >> Shredded. No no jiggle. Dude shredded. always. Veins in his abs like crazy. Yeah, and he was he was talking about. the Cuban program. I'll never forget. It. was like talking about like how they. have the the lower level guys only eat. twice a day, but the the top level guys. eat three times a day. And so everybody.

is competing literally for food. Crazy you say that in Angola prison in. Louisiana, there's a boxing league. If you're on. the boxing league and get accepted into. it, you get more meals and stuff. So the. same thing these these prisoners are. like trying their best to stay on this. boxing league. You get more meals, more. time more free time. Wow. >> They actually fight other prisons, man. Wow. I was thinking this would be a. great documentary to come out with. That. would be a great documentary. >> And it's CCTV to the other prisons. So.

other prisons can watch in their cells. Wow. They bust them to Angola, [snorts]. other prisons in Louisiana, they box. Wow. >> They put out a schedule every year. If. you ever want to go to one, it's invite only, but I I I can get. >> I'd rather watch at home. >> It's Bro, it feels it feels illegal, dude. >> [laughter]. >> It feels illegal. Well, it might not be. legal in other states. >> Yeah, it might not be legal in. Louisiana. I might be getting in trouble. for saying this. >> [laughter]. >> Is anybody any good? Hell yeah. Well, you think Bernard Hopkins came out of. jail? I mean, the guy obviously Tyson. beat him, but the Black Rhino was an.

Angola boxing prisoner who got out or. pardoned to to fight Mike Tyson. Really? >> Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Wow. That's crazy. I did not know that. >> Mhm. So do they have a program where. they have coaches and They have to. Do. they have equipment and everything? >> Wow. And different according to the schedule, they'll bust them to the other prisons. to fight and it's played through all the. prisons in Louisiana. Man, you find a. highly skilled guy who's in that program. And they let them go, bro.

>> to lose. >> The refs there legitimate refs, but they. let the fights go, man. What kind of. nutrition are they getting, though? They. getting prison food? Are they getting. any better food? No, I think prison. food, but they getting more meals. They. get to eat extra. Still it's terrible. food, right? Yeah. Yeah, Angola is a crazy crazy prison, man. Grow all the food there, make all the. clothes there. They grow their food. there? Yeah. Also, maybe the food's not. that bad. >> I'm sure they ship a bunch of stuff in, but they do have crops. And it's such a big operation that uh. the guards and the staff live on the.

prison grounds. There's a elementary. school. Really? Yeah, there's the the worker the guards'. kids and stuff go to school on the. grounds. It's it's. >> wild, man. Oh, that can't be good. It's. wild. Every October they have a the. rodeo there. Article about that boxing. association from 2011. >> Wow. She photos and an interview with some. people I think that were part of it. Well, you want to focus. Yeah, women weaken legs. Ain't no women. in there, dog. >> Hell no. That's crazy. Yeah, serious business,

man. I did not know that. That's nuts, man. Yeah, how come no one's doing a. documentary on this or have they? I. know. Well, Be Hop was a prison boxer in Philly, right? >> Mhm. Yeah. Yeah, this would be a great. documentary, man. [snorts]. Yeah, interesting. Yeah, Bernard learned. I mean I mean learned like real. discipline in prison and also learned. that he never wants to go back. >> No. You know, which is as important. And I think Angola is like maximum. security. So, you don't go there if you.

have less than like. 25 years or something. So, these guys. are in there for a long time just trying. to find things to do and. boxing, eating extra, getting more free. time. Why wouldn't you do that? Awesome. Get in shape. Keeps you focused. You. have something to concentrate on other. than the fact that you're in jail. Yeah. Yeah. It was wild, bro. They set up a. ring like in a cafeteria. I went there. once to watch it. It was it was insane. Wow. It felt like I was doing something. wrong. >> [laughter]. >> It felt like I was doing something. wrong. >> Were the guys good? [ __ ] yeah. Some of. them were good, man. Wow.

>> Really good. Wow. [ __ ] Of what? That's interesting. they pardoned that guy to [ __ ] Who's the. guy? >> too. They have belts. The Black Rhino, Cliff Clifford, maybe? Uh ATN. >> Yes. Yes. >> right. That's it. >> So, he was in prison boxing in Angola, and he fought Tyson. Wow. No [ __ ]. >> Yeah. >> I mean, why not, man? At least it gives. them something to focus on. The idea is. like, oh, you're going to make a more. dangerous felon. Bro, they're dangerous. They're danger. They're in there for. murder. What do you think What do you.

think? They're in there for armed. robbery, murder. Like, let them fight. Right. Do in life, like Right. Exactly. Like, also, we trying to pretend that. that's not going to improve the quality. of their life and improve them as a. human being. Like, doing something. difficult, even if it's difficult and. violent, like fighting, will make you a. better human being. For sure. >> Make you tougher, smarter, more. disciplined, more focused. Also, release. all the aggression there, so you don't. have aggression in like regular. altercations nearly as much. Yeah.

That's where I'm at right now. Like, leaving fighting in the rearview. It's. like, what do I do with my life? Now, days days are long. Dude, I've been. traveling so much. Twice a week, maybe, you know? If I'm. home on Friday, I do open magic. jiu-jitsu, couple kickboxing classes if. I can make it, but I just been traveling. so much, man. >> Why have you been traveling so much? Sponsors, appearances, [snorts]. cornering buddies, like, just saying yes. to everything that I couldn't before, you know? >> Right. I'm more busy now, I think, because before I would shut everything.

down. Like, I got to get ready for this. fight. I have to focus on this. No, I. can't do anything. Blackout these dates. Now, it's like You're really good on the. desk, man. I enjoy, man. I really do. enjoy. >> Yeah. I mean I think that's one of the best. things that the UFC does with former. fighters is they give them this. opportunity to do stuff on the desk. I. think that's huge. I I I hope they keep. bringing me. I just signed a contract. for the year. Um when it was ESPN, I was. kind of doing like. independent contractor stuff. They would. ask me, I would say yes, but I'm on. contract with the UFC for a year. So,

hopefully they keep bringing me, man. I. All the people behind the scenes, just. being around the event that I've, you. know, I've fought at for so long, it. just makes me feel good. >> Yeah. >> And I get nervous cuz it's live TV, you. can't [ __ ] up. Uh-huh. >> You know, live TV's different. Well, I. would like to see they allow more of you. guys to take the the spots doing fights. in commentary. >> Oh, like color? Yeah. Yeah. I mean, right now it's just Dominick Cruz, Paul. Felder, Michael Bisping, and DC. That's essentially it. >> Yeah. I mean, those are the those are.

the only former fighters from the UFC. that are doing it. And I I really think. there's room for more guys. Yeah. Dan. Hardy was great. Yeah, for sure. >> awesome at it. >> was. I don't know what the [ __ ] happened. with him in the UFC. They had some sort. of a squabble and he left, but he's. fantastic over at PFL. He's still with. them? Yeah. Yeah, he does that. He's. really good, man. He's a. >> breaks stuff down. He's very good. >> Yeah. Very good. And he's a great guy. I've known him forever. He was a 10th. Planet Jiu-Jitsu guy, so I've known him. since like. [ __ ] I must have met him 20 years ago.

Wow. Yeah. I didn't know that. Yeah, before he was fighting GSP, before he's. fighting any of those guys, I I knew. him. Yeah. He would come over from. England to train in America. He was such. a knockout artist, we never really get. to see him Right. >> Yeah, no, he was good at Jiu-Jitsu, too, man. I mean, he trained hard. And he's. just a very smart dude who knows a lot. about the sport. >> Yeah, it seems like it. When he's. breaking down stuff, you can tell he's. studied. He's also just like a very. skillful commentator because he's very. intelligent in his in the way he.

describes things. It's exciting. I mean, I think he they I don't know what. happened with them. I mean, when I'm on. the desk with those guys, I try my best. to not. break things down too much like on the. stat side. I try to make it seem like. like conversations sitting on the couch. watching fights with your boys, where I. talk about. experiences that I've had and stuff cuz. they explained it to me like that's what. fans want to see. If they want to look. up stats, they'll go look it up. They. don't want to hear you talk about. submission attempts and exact stats. They want to know your experience. Yeah.

So, like each rep I think I'm getting. better, you know, opening up and being. more myself. I'm trying to do a good. job, man. I really really enjoy it. >> I think stats are interesting sometimes, but what's really more important than. that is like a technical breakdown of. abilities. >> Right. Because stats it's. it's variable depending on who you're. fighting. Like Like you take Charles. Oliveira's stats and then you say his. fight with Islam Makhachev and you say, "Okay, well, where's the stats?" Like. it's it's like it's it's really. dependent upon skill sets, who's your. level of competition, who you're. competing with.

>> Yeah. You know what I mean? That was a quick submission, though. The stats are one submission attempt. One submission. Bro, he's got a crushing. squeeze. Would you speak to that? >> diff- Yeah. [laughter]. Yeah. Yeah, he strangled me. And the way. he did it, I think he uh. Moicano filled in last minute to fight. Islam and got caught with the same. choke. >> Mhm. It's kind of like a a darce choke, but he locks it on his forearm. >> Yeah. He doesn't go to the bicep. I. know. And the squeeze is different. He's. pulling to his chest. It's not like a. angle squeeze. It's it's different. So,

the defense is different. When I got my. legs out and tried to walk around, he he. hooked my leg, but like the squeeze was. completely different. Mhm. >> Completely different. You know, you belly down and kind of get. some space to breathe, you can't when. the way he does it. Craig Jones broke it. down. >> It's like a front choke, almost like a. Mhm. like a squeeze to your chest. It's. not a angle that you use for a normal. darce choke. >> I know, I was shocked the first time I. saw him do it. I was like, "Maybe he. just like couldn't cinch up the bicep.". Then I saw him do it a second time. I. was like, "No, then no no, this guy's. trying to do it that way.".

He he grabs right here, right? >> Craig Craig Jones did an awesome. breakdown of it on YouTube where it. explains why it's effective and what's. so good about it. >> And it when he gets the grip locked in, like it's complete immediate blood shut. down. You know, usually you feel it. slowly fading away. It was like right. away. Wow, so that dude's got a back of. a drive-thru movie on. The the darkness. started coming in like as soon as he got. the grip. Really? >> Yeah. He's so [ __ ] strong, man. >> [snorts]. >> There's like something about those. Dagestan guys, man. Like the discipline.

those [ __ ] have. Yeah. You. know, there's Dagestan guys that are. making their way into Muay Thai now, too. There's this dude, Asadulla Iman. Gazaliev. I talk about him all the time. But I can't talk about him enough. He's. one of those One FC guys that is. fighting um in Muay Thai from Dagestan. And this [ __ ] kid is 22 years old and. he's knocking out like multiple time. world Thai champions. >> I've never seen him. Bro. [snorts].

This dude is a freak. I mean, he's a freak He's just putting. people into the shadow realm every. fight. >> Dude, it's so wild to fight 4-oz gloves. in Muay Thai. >> I know. But I mean, you can throw elbows. and stuff and knees, so it. It's perfect. It's like 4-oz gloves, I. mean, look, you're throwing elbows, knees, everything else in the clinch. allows you to grapple better. It just makes it so much more dangerous. for the blocking, you know, you don't. have the the the gloves covering all the. space around your ears. >> But this cat is special, man. He's. special. Nasty body. And he's from.

Dagestan. It's like, okay, imagine this. [ __ ] gets into MMA, everybody's. [ __ ] If this guy can wrestle at all, which you know he can if he's from. [ __ ] Dagestan. Well, they do a lot of. kickboxing for [ __ ] right? Yeah. This dude's something, though. He's. something new. Oh my god. >> Cuz he's 22 years old and he's like. world Muay Thai champions. He's sleeping. them all. >> Yeah. It's nuts, man. What weight is. that? Uh 145. I [snorts] think he's 145? Or 35? 145.

>> Probably tall tall and lean. 132? Is that what it says? >> thing right here says. on screen. Weight limit 132.7. Interesting. >> 5'10". Interesting. >> 60 kg. >> [cough]. >> 22 years old, [clears throat] man. Well, at that weight well, and then you think. about one has some crazy thing. Look at. this, win, knockout, win, knockout, win, knockout. He's a freak, man. And that. one dude that made it to the unanimous. decision is this this kid from Morocco. who's just tough as [ __ ] But god damn,

he took a beating. They have such a. great product, man. I wonder how many. like viewers and how the ratings are. I mean, it's big in Asia, but um there's. they have financial struggles. I don't. want to speak to it cuz I don't know. enough, but there's a lot of talk. >> they wanted to start doing shows in. America. They've done a few. Yeah. Uh I. know they did one in Colorado. They. maybe have done multiple, I'm not aware. But uh it's a great product. That's the. thing. It's like I love watching their. kickboxing fights on YouTube. And that. kid Yuki Yoza that I was telling you. about that throws calf kicks, he's.

[ __ ] everybody up in calf kicks. And there's another guy from a lot of. these Kyokushin guys, especially in. kickboxing. So, like they have different. rule sets over there in One. You can. fight kickboxing where they use big. gloves, or you can fight Muay Thai where they. use little gloves, and I think they've. had Muay Thai fights where they have big. gloves, too. So, in the kickboxing, you're not allowed to clinch, not. allowed to throw elbows. But in the But. you you can throw knees, but you can't. clinch and just continue to throw knees,

and you can't sweep, and you can't take. guys down. It's a little confusing. I. think Muay Thai's the way to go. But the thing about kickboxing in Japan. is like they just wanted to That's what. what K-1 was. They They're like, "Let's. just take out all the clinching and make. this as exciting as possible. What's the. best way to do that?" And the elbows. elbows are very effective, obviously, and knock a lot of guy guys out, but. also cut a lot of people open and stop. fights prematurely, which is why Pride. didn't allow elbows, which is really.

crazy when you think about that. Because. Pride had soccer kicks and stomps. But. you were fighting multiple times. True. Cuts, you know, if you get cut in. the first fight, it could change. everything. I think that makes sense. I. kind of but I mean soccer kicks? Stomps and soccer kicks but no elbows? [laughter] It's hard to say because for. ground. >> to a grounded guy? Yeah. It's ground and. pound elbows are so effective. It's so. important. I mean it really like guys. that think they're comfortable and safe. in the guard, you're not. You're you're. not when a guy can still bust you up.

with elbows from a short distance. It's. a very effective technique. >> Yeah, very damaging. Cut. Yeah, it is. very very damaging technique. Well, there's a real problem with the cage and. the problem is the wall. Like the the. fence is an artificial structure that. keeps you from being able to move. And. I've always said this that I I think it. should be an open mat. It should be a. large mat. And you should you should not. >> Like a wrestling mat? >> Yeah, like a big wrestling mat. Like. think about a basketball game. Like. think about how much space is on a.

basketball court. And you still get. 16,000 people in there to watch a. basketball game. Guys would be. >> [sighs]. >> I I would think running running around a. lot of. Or maybe you get penalty. Penalty for. moving too much. Maybe you have red. zones. >> You have a red zone. Yellow card or. Well, you have a you have a center that. you're supposed to stay in and then you. have a red zone outside of it and then. you have a black zone outside the red. zone where you get points taken away. You enter into the red zone too many. times, you get a warning for the first. time, another warning for the second. time, third time you get a point taken.

away. So, you can use it once or twice. to evade but then you got to go back. into the area where you're supposed to. fight. I think that would be that would. be cool. How big of a of an area you. talking? Basketball court. That's too. big, man. That's too big. How about football? How. about football [ __ ] field? >> [laughter]. >> That's too big, that's too big. >> They're doing that with no rules fights. Yeah? Yeah, I watch a lot of no rules. fights. They're hard. >> The Russian the Russian stuff? >> They're so scary because guys just mount. guys and gouge their eyes out. Yeah. >> They're mounting people and just shoving. their fingers in their eyes and guys are. screaming and tapping and it's like oh I.

run across some pretty crazy stuff on IG. sometimes from those. But they're fighting in parking lots, they're fighting on phone booths, cars. upside down, underwater. They're. fighting everywhere. [laughter] They're. fighting everywhere. I saw them on a. cargo container floating on the on top. of water where you get knocked off and. That's crazy. It's so ridiculous. American Gladiators KO'd and you fall. into the water, you just breathe water. and then they'll rescue you in time. Just fight with those kid floaties on? >> [laughter]. >> If you get knocked out, you just float. to the top.

>> Instead of those Muay Thai things. blow them up. Your corner's in the your. corner's blowing them up. Yeah. But I. think the cage I'd like like you know. how like the UFC. BJJ has that sloped surface? A perfect example is Karate Combat. Karate Combat does that sloped surface. That's a good one. >> And that's a big space they fight in. Karate Combat. Yeah. Something like that. I think would be good. It would be. better. There's something about the But. the problem is then you're you're. backing up and you hit that ramp and you. fall down.

>> Or what was the old Karate. It was like I don't think it was Chuck. Norris's. >> is it? Yeah. >> Chuck Norris's league. Something like. that. Yeah, I think it was World Combat. League or something like that. I went to. see that one. >> W WCF. >> Yeah. Something like that. World Combat. Federation. I think the first guy to do. a slanted thing though was Frank. Shamrock. You know, a lot of people. don't realize that Frank Shamrock had an. organization for a while and they fought. in like this sloped sort of thing. >> [ __ ] Kumite. Yeah. I think he might. have been the first guy.

Frank was way ahead of his time. Way. ahead of his time. And he's another guy. that got erased from cuz he had a. falling out with the UFC and he got it. kind of erased from the lineage of like. elite fighters from the past. Fighting. older in Strikeforce like still bodied. up and I know. He was a student of of. martial arts. >> Yes. Yes. But by the time he got to. Strikeforce. his kind of best days were behind him. like when Nick Diaz beat him up. >> Yeah. It was it wasn't the same guy. When he fought Phil Baroni, he wasn't.

the same guy. He had a lot of knee. problems and it's like he's just not. after a while. It's like he might have. been like 40s in Strike Force or I don't. know how old he was. Late 30s, 40s, you. know. Late 30s for sure. But when you go. back to his fights in the UFC, I mean, he was a pioneer, man. When he fought. Tito Ortiz, he was nowhere near Tito's. size. And he just beat Tito with cardio. Just cardio and defense and then. eventually wore his ass down and beat. him up and changed Tito's entire. strategy for fighting after that. He was.

one of the guys early was like super. fit, super. you know, really focused on his his health and. nutrition and supplementation and. everything. Back then you didn't see a. whole lot of that, but he was one of the. guys for sure. Well, the Lion's Den, you. know, Ken Shamrock's his the thing that. they put guys through, this gauntlet. that they put guys through in order to. make the team, to make the fight team. was hell. It was just hell. They wanted. guys to break. And so. extreme conditioning, extreme mental.

toughness, like all that was emphasized. >> Yeah. And so Frank was the best example. of that though because he was. he was elite everywhere. He was really. taking guys down, he had great. submissions, he had great striking. And you know, he fought some wild. fights, man. He fought Enson. I I don't. remember where that was. Was that in. K-1? But he beat Enson with knees. Like he he'd fought in multiple. organizations. Obviously he started out.

in Pancrase. Yeah. But he'd only been. training for like a year or something. like that when he fought Bas Rutten in. Pancrase. He was super [ __ ] talented, man. What They let him wear boots, right? Or. some kind of leg. >> Yeah, he had some weird shin pad deal. with Well, he had wrestling shoes with. shin pads and you open-hand slaps. You know. >> Yeah, yeah. It was always palm. >> Uh-huh. Yeah. So, what is this in? Does it say what it's in? >> It was in 2011, but 2011.

This says UFC. It's not UFC. Oh, it's. Vale Tudo Japan. Yeah, this [snorts] was before 2011. It. was just posted. >> Yeah. Okay, so this is Vale Tudo Japan. So, Vale Tudo Japan, I wonder if it's. the same Vale Tudo that Rickson fought. in. So, Rickson was, you know, the. champion of Vale Tudo Japan early on. Well, that was like the in the. documentary choke. You've seen that, right? >> Uh-huh. A long time ago, yeah. >> rules. >> Yeah, man. That documentary rules.

So, that's what how Rickson became a. legend. Back in the real NHB, no Yeah. Yeah. No rules days. >> Well, the first UFC that I went to was. UFC 12 in Dothan, Alabama. And you could. wear wrestling shoes, you could punch. guys in the nuts. >> Yeah. Hair pulling. Yeah. Grab their. clothes. It didn't matter. >> Uh there was two weight classes back. then. Um like cuz Vitor won the heavyweight. tournament back then. I think they had. two weight classes back then.

So, they still recognize that there's. some smaller guys and some bigger guys. The smaller guys are real talented, but. they're never going to beat the big. giant guys. So, let's have a weight. class for them. Yeah. I remember renting VHS tapes with my dad. of the old UFCs, dude. What got you into. the sport like how old were you when you. first started martial arts training. period? 17. 17. That's late. >> Yeah. If you think about it, right? >> Well, I mean, if you want to call it. wrestling, I wrestled for 2 years when I. was 10 and 11 for a private club. We did. like traveling Texas a lot, Louisiana,

small club meets. But other than that, no combat sports, no martial art experience. How did you. get into it? Boxing. When I was 17, I. wanted to box. Always wanted to box. Started going to a boxing gym. Met some MMA guys there. Didn't know. they had MMA where I was from. Then went. to the MMA gym and never went back to. the boxing gym. So, what year are. talking? 2006, maybe? Oh, okay. So, this was. right when the UFC first started. >> This is like I remember when Stefan and. and Forrest did the big thing. This was.

like beginning around the time I was. training. boxing and and mixed martial arts. So, that wave like I just never stopped. Wow. >> Yeah, man. What was it. the. World Combat. Like Chris Horodecki was over there. Ben. Rothwell was over there. Remember What. was that the. >> Yes. the team organization. That was big. at the time. >> Right. IFL? >> IFL. Yeah. >> Yes. Everybody had teams and stuff. That. was weird. >> real big around that time. Uh yeah, I didn't know being in. >> That's where Dan Miller, Jim's brother,

landed the grossest guillotine I've ever. seen in my life. Have you ever seen this. one? >> so. Oh my god, it's the worst guillotine. of all time. He gets his guy in the. guillotine, traps his head in his chest, and bends his chest so his head is. connected to his own chest sideways. >> So, like this. His head went all the way. down and touched his chest. I don't even. know how he's still alive. >> Yeah. Watch this. Watch this Watch this. guillotine. >> There it is. IFL. >> out. Now, watch this guillotine. Look at. that. Look at that. Bro. Jesus. Bro,

how's that guy alive? Look at that. Look. at that. How is he alive? Have you ever seen that before? Ever? Like that's crazy. That is the craziest guillotine I've. ever seen in my life. That's so crazy. >> neck's broken, bro. How did How's he. alive? >> Yeah. Like how First of all, why did it take. so long for the referee to stop? Who's. the referee? Steve Mazzagatti. >> [laughter]. >> No, I don't know who it is, but he could. have probably stopped that a couple of. seconds earlier. But, I mean, it's just.

hard to imagine that a neck can go in. that direction. Like it's so. that doesn't show it. The other angle. that you showed is really what showed. it. >> Yeah. >> The other angle where you see it from. the side, where you see his head. Like. when he when he cinches it up here, that. is crazy. That you're not supposed to bend like. that. You know, your ears never supposed to. touch your chest. >> No. I don't know how it does. I don't. know. I mean, it just seems like. everything would break. It seems like. you would never walk again. He's not.

Dan's not fighting anymore, [clears throat] huh? >> No. Jim's still fighting. >> Jim's still rolling, man. Jim's still. fighting. >> Still rolling. It's crazy. >> Most fights in UFC history. And and. still fine. No surgeries, no nothing. >> Yeah. Still durable. >> He could beat up I think Was his last. fight Bobby Green? That was the last. time I think I saw him fight. >> know if that was his last fight, but he. definitely got beat up in that one. >> I think that was his. >> lost a step. I mean, he's 40 years old. >> But man, dude still loves it. Still. loves it. >> Respect to him, dude. >> Yeah. I mean, He sent me a cook a cookbook. He came.

out with a cookbook. He's a big cook and. a hunter and stuff, you know. He sent me. a cookbook and a a spatula. Oh, that's. hilarious. >> Captain Redbeard or Jimmy Redbeard on. the spatula. It's like [laughter]. engraved into it. [ __ ] yeah. >> He's quite a character. Yeah, I like him. I like him, man. >> I like him a lot, too. He's a very fun. dude. And also, complete wits about him, doesn't have any problems mentally, you. know, he's like He seems like a hard. worker. He's always on his farm doing. stuff. Like you would never think he was. a fighter if you didn't know. I know, right? >> Yeah. Yeah, he's he's a fascinating. character. Well, the thing about the.

sport is that it like exceptional humans. are exceptional at fighting. Like to be. an exceptional fighter, you have to be. an exceptional person. There's really no. way around it. There's like it's too. hard to do. You have to be a very unique. kind of human being that can get through. those camps, that can perform under the. big lights, that can figure out how to. keep getting better and evolve. For. sure. And that type of stuff is like the. last time I was on the show where I was. talking about it's like a gift and a. curse, man. It's like you have to be all. in at something. Those kind of people.

who are built like that. >> Mhm. whether it's fighting or drinking. or whether it's good or bad, you're. going all in. It's dangerous. >> yeah. The The is like we see with Conor, when they don't have the fighting, then. they go all in with the other things. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Right. Fighting was always for me always. pulled everything together, you know? That's why like retiring is scary, man. Days are long, I have a lot of time. It's I don't have to get ready for a. fight. I don't. >> You're still a young man, too. You still. have a whole lot of life ahead of you.

37, man. Yeah, so it makes you think. like what do I do now? What do I do with. my future? What do I do with What do you. want to do? >> Dude, I kind of got like for a a week or. so, I would say depressed, but I kind of. got into like a funk, like what the hell. am I going to do with my life? Every day. I would wake up for the last 20 years, how can I be better fighter? How can I. What's new in fitness? How can I push. myself? I want to be the champion and. then boom, you lay the gloves down and. you wake up and you're [ __ ] civilian. Like Right. >> crazy. You know? Mhm. It's like I'm relearning. who I am. Like I always knew fighting.

was just something I did, it wasn't who. I was. But after 20 years of doing it, even. though you know that and you think that, like it it [ __ ] I don't know who I am. without fighting. How long did it take. you to feel like you were. >> I'm a husband, I'm a lot of things, but. like fighting was. a cloud in my mind that never went away. for 20 years. Right. >> And now I wake up and it's it's gone. Like what what do I do? I'm still trying. to find out, Joe. I don't know. Did you. still get nervous when you would go to. events? You know, that feeling that you. get like you you. >> When I competed? >> competing. No, no, no. >> Yeah, dude.

>> When you would go to other events for. other people. Just feeling like you. might have to compete. Dude, my hands. are sweaty. Yeah. >> Yeah. That's weird, right? For sure. I mean, obviously I I knew This happened. to me last well, couple weeks when Max. fought Charles. I was nervous. I had. armpit stains, my hands were sweating. I'm like, dude, I hope these people. don't don't see this. Right, because you. feel like you're still there in that. world. >> these guys for some reason. Well, you. are forever. Yeah, that's the thing. That's what's so interesting about. watching like old fighters, even old. boxers when they go to like Hall of Fame. ceremonies and they see each other and.

hugging like those guys are connected in. time forever. Yeah, Max Max came up to. the desk and I was like. we spent an hour of our lives fighting. each other to you know as hard as we. could. And he didn't even know. He's. like, "No way, an hour?" I'm like, "Yeah, dude. We went to two decisions, two five round decisions, and we fought. the the first fight was a one or two. rounds. So, it was it's an hour of. fight." Yeah. We spent an hour beating each other up. That is crazy when you think about it. >> An hour is a long time. >> [laughter]. >> An hour is a long time to fight another.

man. >> Especially bearing your soul in front of. the world. It's not a regular hour. Just. >> Right. an hour at the beach. >> It's the biggest hour. It's yeah. Yeah. And it's an hour you're prepared for for. months each time. But because of that. like like you were saying with the boxes. like we know. we have an unwritten thing we know about. each other. Yeah. You know, something we. never spoke about, but we know each. other better than a lot of people do. Yeah, you know when a person breaks and. who doesn't break. Max doesn't break. >> He doesn't break. >> No. I mean, you see it in that fight. I. mean, how is he how does he go through.

that whole round and not get submitted? Yeah. Dry with Oliveira on his back. And. got close a few times. Like he's. crushing his face. >> You know. Like that old Shinya Aoki. where you go the angle and you can you. can choke through the jaw. Oh, yeah, man. Guys go to sleep. >> Neck crank, it'll choke you to sleep. through the jaw. Well, even just a a. rear naked across your face, I've seen. guys go to sleep. Yeah. They just go to sleep. You try not to. tap and you just wake up and you're. like, "How did he choke me out over my. face?". Cuz it's like a. If you get enough torque and and crank,

it'll yeah, it'll cut off the vein or. whatever, you know, it'll it'll put you. out. >> enough. It's which is nuts. And it's so. much pain on the jaw, too. Oh, it's. horrible. Choking getting lack of oxygen. to the brain is one thing like the jaw. binding up against the bones like. you know that sharp pain you get when. somebody's face cranking you in your. jaw? >> Yeah, it feels like it's going to. dislocate. >> Yeah, well, that was the thing with. Khabib and Conor where he did that. torque that torque crank where he got. his neck and he he cinched it up with. the forearm behind the neck and pulls.

back like this like that is hell. >> And those guys squeeze is different, man. Those guys squeeze is different. What is. something about lifelong grapplers? There's like a density to them that's. just different. The density, the. strength, and just like. the knowing of where to put the pressure. and what angle to turn your hips to make. a big difference, you know? People. outside don't even see it, but it's so. so. crucial in the moment Yeah. when. somebody's on your back and they just. turn a little bit to with the elbow, you. know, rather than to squeeze straight.

on. Small things like that or you know, what win fights. I'll tell you the fight. that I'm really looking forward to, really looking forward to cuz I don't. know what's going to happen, is Khamzat. versus Strickland. I'm very interested in that fight. Strickland is a [ __ ] nightmare. standing up. He's a nightmare. For sure. What he did to Fluffy Hernandez, I was. like, holy [ __ ] man. >> The body shot, the finish, but he made. Fluffy fight. You know, he's fights at a. slower pace. He has his own pace in.

there and and he kind of forces the. other guy to fight. His opponent has to. fight this pace with him. I I think the best the best chance is to. to blitz him, do unorthodox things cuz. he wants to jab, circle, throw a kick, jab, circle. He keeps a very slow pace. He's not sprinting or trying to blast. you out of there. He just Well, he. doesn't get hit that much. He chips. away, high guard, good shell. >> Yeah, very good shell. His defense is. extraordinary. He, you know, one of the things he was. telling me is like, I spar more than. anybody and I get hit less than anybody. And that is true. Like, if you think. about how much that guy spars, it's a.

giant part of his training. Look at. James Toney. He was hard he was hard to. hit and all he did was spar. >> Yeah, right. Perfect example. >> There's something taught in that in. those moments. >> 100%. Yeah. Understanding of distance, timing, pattern recognition, you're. constantly in there moving around. >> Right. It's like and then there's also. the cardio that comes from sparring. Yeah. It's it's different. >> Yeah. Like he cuz his cardio is almost. entirely based on sparring. And man, that [ __ ] [clears throat]. doesn't get tired in there. >> Right. Right. And the Fluffy fight was.

like, I thought Fluffy was going to be a. problem. I'm like, Fluffy's really good, man. You think he he submitted Rodolfo. Vieira. He's got all this [ __ ] crazy. cardio. He puts a pace on guys and. Strickland made it look like he just did. not belong in there. He's so heavy on. that front foot though. I can't believe. guys aren't smashing that calf, man. >> I know. Well, he's hard to hit, man. And. he also [clears throat] knows how to do. that that um. [ __ ] the the that hacky sack thing. Well, you know, like you're bending your. knee upwards. You know what I mean?

>> it? Yeah. Well, you don't even check it. You just kind of like relax your leg and. lift it up. You know who who showed me. that? Is Alex Pereira. He's like, instead of checking it. It's like, if. you check it, it still hurts you. >> For sure. But he just lifts his leg up. He just goes heel to knee on the. opposite side. And so like a hacky sack. move. >> Right. Right. Right. I've seen guys take. thigh leg kicks like that. Yeah. Kind of. let it swing a little. But he does it. with the calf. So, it's like he sees it. coming. Instead of doing that, stepping. out and checking it, he does like like.

this. That Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, that's it. With that I think in this. instance, I think that was probably the. I don't know if that was the first fight. or the second fight, but. Izzy's calf was already done. He was. really hurt. He told me after that. fight, he goes, when he got stopped in. the first fight, he goes, "Dude, I. wasn't even that hurt. It wasn't that.". He goes, "I couldn't move." He goes, "My. calf was cooked.". >> It doesn't go away. Yeah, that one's crazy. That. That's kind of silly. >> Soccer move. That's hard to That's kind.

of silly. I don't think he really does. that. >> Block it with the bottom of your foot. >> He could though. I'm very interested in. that fight, too. Him versus Ciryl Gane. That's very interesting. >> For sure. For sure. And I know the. power's going to translate over to to. heavyweight. >> 100%. >> be able to flatline heavyweights. >> 100%. Especially with zero weight cut. Yeah. He's probably 230, 240 walking. around. 230 something, maybe. >> He's 240. >> Yeah, come on. He's 2:40 walking around. >> That's a legit heavyweight. He's big, tall, long. [ __ ] guy fought at 85. >> But, so is. Ciryl, man.

>> Ciryl's good. >> An athlete heavyweight. Not just a big. guy fighting at heavyweight. He's a. legit heavyweight. >> It is a crime in the sport that that. fight with Aspinall got stopped the way. it did, that he eye-poked him. It's a. crime. >> Yeah. Because that fight was playing out. in a very interesting direction cuz. Aspinall was having a really hard time. touching that guy. He was bleeding. He. was getting touched up. He was getting. touched up a lot. Ciryl's jab is legit. >> And that's what I was most excited for. I wanted to see Tom have to come back, lose a round, and come back. I've never.

seen him. I obviously I've seen him fight, but. I've never seen him in a real fight. where you you have to fight your way. back into it or How many times has he. even been in the second round? >> Twice, maybe? I Something crazy like. that. >> Nuts. And that's why the fan base kind. of blew me away. I was like, these guys. are so high on Aspinall right now. Like, for a a few months, everybody was. talking about Aspinall, how good he is. I've never seen it. Not that he's not. He he make I mean, he has to be good to. be where he's at. >> Yeah. >> But, I haven't seen it. Well, my thought. was the real problem that Aspinall's. going to present is in the grappling. He's a Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black belt.

He's a big [ __ ] He's fast. He's got a. power double. I mean, he explodes. But, when he's standing there and trying to. stand with Ciryl Gane, this is the first. time that he was ever in front of a guy. who was agile and quick and very. technical. But, Ciryl Gane was doing a. lot of sneaky [ __ ] One thing he does is. he keeps his hand low, and then he pops. that jab out. So, you don't know where. it's coming from. Up jab. He does a lot. of weird [ __ ] with his front leg, too. >> pretty quick for his size. Real quick. Real quick. And good mobility, good.

hips. >> Yeah, man. Ciryl's a great athlete. Like, it's not just that I've seen him. dunk basketballs and [ __ ] Like, he's he. can move. But, it's just the fluidity of. his striking is so efficient. Like, that's his world. If you just want to. strike with him, I mean, Jon Jones is so smart. Jon's. like, "Fuck all this." Guillotine. Even. Francis. Francis, well, he had a blown. out knee in that fight. But, Francis just like took him down. every round and beat him up. Yeah, man. But, that's a different Ciryl. That's a. Ciryl that wasn't concentrating enough.

on his grappling and probably never. thought that Francis could employ that. tactic. >> Right. And then really worked with a lot. of wrestlers and try to evolve his game. and you know. >> Francis is on that Nate Jacob part as. well, I believe, you know. >> Right. He's fighting Philip Lins. He's a. ATT guy. Yeah. >> Yeah. How good is he? I've never really. watched him train that much. I know he. made it to the UFC for a stint. Then he. maybe went PFL. I'm not sure how good he. is. Yeah, it's I've seen him at the gym,

but I've never watched him train. >> fortunate that there's not another big. name for him to fight. Like, I was. hoping they could get a big name. Bob. Sapp. >> [laughter]. >> I mean, who would be the big name? Like, who's. >> At heavyweight? >> Yeah, at heavyweight. That's. still talented. No one. Yeah. >> Heavyweight is the most shallow division. in the sport, period. >> Cain's out of jail. Get him in shape. Well, Cain's got crazy back surgeries. and knee surgery and shoulder surgery. Yeah, Cain Cain was like too tough for. his own body. And all the years of.

wrestling, man. >> Mhm. Wear and tear. Wear and tear. Well, also. just never giving his body a break. Just. constantly grinding and pushing and. that's why he was so good. It's like he. just didn't. >> in his prime the best. I think he was. the best heavyweight. Well, he was. certainly in the argument. In my mind, it's him and Fedor, but honorable. mention always I give to Fabricio. Werdum. Yeah. >> Werdum. People want to think about. losses, think about peak performances. Fabricio Werdum tapped everybody. He. tapped all the legends.

>> Great triangle choke. >> Minotauro, he tapped Fedor, and he. tapped Cain. Like, just that. Just that. alone. He tapped all the legends. >> why his name didn't like when I was. thinking about heavyweights, why his. name doesn't even come in this. >> want to give him respect. I always put. it out there because. the same way I do with B.J. Penn cuz. people for they only want to think about. B.J. Penn maybe when he fought Frankie. Edgar or when he fought Yair Rodriguez. Go back to B.J. Penn when he fought Sean. Sherk. Go back to B.J. Penn when he. fought Diego Sanchez. That B.J. Penn was.

a [ __ ]. >> Stevenson. >> Yes, Joe Daddy Stevenson. You got to. think about the guys when they're in. their prime, when they're at when. they're headlining for X amount of years. at peak performance. When you're talking about like all-time. greats, I get it. All-time greats, you. got to think about guys like Jon Jones. and Khabib. They never lost. They stayed. flawless their entire career. You're. right. But for peak performance, when they were. at their best, how good were they?

I put prime-time B.J. Penn at 155. against almost anybody. >> Yeah, you're right, man. Bro, he was so. good and his jiu-jitsu was so good. >> Yeah. And he could knock you out and he. was an animal. Just an And when he was. training with Marv Marinovich, when he. went over there and was like really. learning how to get in insane shape and. he would come there with. >> Carrying rocks underwater and stuff. >> [ __ ] I think the carrying rocks was. him. Marinovich had him doing a lot of. like crazy plyometric stuff and the. Marinovich's strategy was, you already.

know how to fight. [ __ ] all this. fighting. You know how to fight. What. we're going to do is just give you the. most insane gas tank. So your fight. training is like secondary. What's. really important is just having the most. spectacular gas tank so you never get. tired. >> Yeah. But he hated those camps, man. He hated. it. And he only did it for like. >> Even in the peak of his shape, he was. still a little soft. He was never. shredded like. >> pretty shredded when he fought Joe. Stevenson. Was he? Look at the Yeah, he. had a six-pack. He looked good. I mean, he was It was different. But at 55, it.

was different. >> body type's different, you know. >> Well, at 70, he was never really a 170, you know. >> [clears throat]. >> He was never I mean, he was much smaller. than you. He's a He was never really 170. He was. just so tough that he went up to 170 and. beat a prime time Matt Hughes. Yeah, he he stuck around longer than he. should have. >> He definitely did. He did and he. definitely fought without training well. sometimes and that's the thing people. remember. >> Yes, I hate that though. They remember. that one fight we fought on his tippy. toes, remember that fight? >> Yeah, yep, yep. >> Like crazy, weird [ __ ] But you got to.

think about him in his prime. That's. what I always say. Don't look at Like. Fabricio Werdum. Don't look at all the fights. Look at. the fights when he was in his prime. >> was putting it all together. >> Fabricio was a nightmare. He was a. nightmare. >> Like when they hit their stride. And. that's that's what I was scared about. staying around the fighting too long. Like I retired at 36. I'm like, perfect. How much more. athletic am I going to get? How much. faster am I going to get? How much you. know, power is the last thing to go but. durability, speed, reaction time, everything that I need like and if I'm.

not right in line for a title shot or. knocking on the door of it, like what am. I doing? Right. >> I'm fighting just to fight for a. paycheck. >> That's when. I had to look myself in the mirror, you. know, like, okay, this is it. I'm I'm. going to You did the right thing. Be. healthy. Leave with my faculties for the. most part. >> The age that you retired was the age. that Yoel Romero entered into the UFC. Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. Isn't that nuts? Yeah. It really. is crazy if you think about it cuz. that's that's really what I And there's. a few outliers out there in the sport.

Like in boxing, Usyk is the great. outlier. Terence Crawford is another. great outlier. Dude, what about Usyk and Rico? Crazy. Rico's a super nice guy. I love Rico, man. Super nice guy. >> He's a nice guy but without leg kicks, the fact that he's going to just box and. he's going to box maybe the best. technical heavyweight that's ever lived, I don't know, man. >> I learned my I learned my lesson, dude. I bet $5,000 on Fury. Did you? >> Yeah. The second fight? >> Yeah, yeah. >> Interesting. If anybody could to him,

it's Tyson Fury. If anybody can beat. Usyk, it's Tyson Fury. Cuz Tyson Fury. was beating him in the first fight. He. just got clipped. He got clipped in the. I think it was the ninth. He got really. badly hurt. I don't remember what round. it was, but he got really badly hurt. And dropped. But Usyk is just so slick. Yeah, man. >> His footwork, his movement, he's And the. fact that he's essentially a blown-up. cruiserweight and he's beating all these. giant heavyweights like Dubois. Like Daniel Dubois is terrifying. What. he did to Joshua. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

>> Just charged forward and just put. [ __ ] leather on his face. Yeah, Rico's a real heavyweight, but. he's not a. pure boxer. No. I mean, he can hit hard. I mean, there's that. But he's such a. great kicker, you're taking a weapon. away. It's interesting. It's a. spectacle. I'm watching, for sure, but I. just. I'm sure he's boxed with a lot of like. really elite boxers in the gym. I mean, Yeah, over the years, for sure. For. sure, yeah. The payday's probably. bananas. I'm sure. Fighting in Giza. In. front of the pyramids? Nuts. Crazy.

Who's putting this together? Who put. that together? >> no idea. Yeah, aliens. Aliens. That's where. they're going to land. >> [laughter]. >> Dude, they need to do a a coliseum. fight. MMA or or boxing, where they set. it up either in the coliseum or right in. front, you know, that'd be crazy. Well, they were talking about doing that with. Elon Musk and Mark Zuckerberg. They were. talking about that. Fighting in the. coliseum. >> A real fight. I know, that's so crazy. Dude, That would be so crazy. Have those. guys be the first fight in the coliseum. >> at Meta headquarters or something. Don't.

do that at [laughter] the coliseum. Don't disrespect the. Don't disrespect the coliseum. No, no. I. know, that's silly. So, where Who's live at the Pyramids of. Giza? WBC World Heavyweight. Championship, DAZN. But like, I wonder. who the promoter is. Usyk is the. seller. WBC, I don't. Is that their faces? That's so. ridiculous. Look at their [ __ ] with. their. circular golden gloves on. Glory in Giza. It's going be interesting, man. I'm. excited about it. I wonder who's going.

to buy that. How much is that going to cost? I'm. going to buy it. But I mean I mean how. many people are going to buy that? You know what I mean? Like I'm going to. buy it because it's I love Rico. I've. had Rico on the show. I mean I think. he's the greatest heavyweight kickboxer. of all time. For sure. I I feel like the. way combat sports has kind of. intertwined all different stuff, boxing, MMA, how big mixed martial arts is now, you're going to get a lot of cross. crossover. Before you'd get a lot of. hardcore boxing fans buying this. pay-per-view, but now you're kind of. going to get a little bit of everything,

kickboxing, MMA, boxing fans. >> has such a small audience, unfortunately. And this was the you. know, this is the argument that Dana has. said to me about kickboxing in America. that they tried with Glory. I just don't think they got the right. promotion. I think if the UFC would have. gotten behind. >> action. It's highlights the whole time. Why wouldn't you say why wouldn't I feel. like if the UFC got behind kickboxing in. America, it could be gigantic, especially kickboxing with MMA gloves. Like that Gazaliev guy was fighting in.

the octagon, you know [ __ ] gigantic. that would be? >> Yeah. Or Yoki Yosa, there's another guy. Masanori. >> [snorts]. >> There's a bunch of guys. There's a bunch of guys that are like. really elite that are fighting. >> Yeah. Oh, oops, a bunch, man. A lot. A. lot. A lot. Yeah, Masanori. Um. Usyk open to fighting Jon Jones in. crossover MMA fight. What? Wait. Okay, now you got me interested.

Dude. If the UFC comes up with the. cheddar. He better start wrestling now. Yeah, he. better start wrestling now. >> Wrestling right now. Is that real? Did. he say that? Rico is first. Second is whoever wins. between Wardley and Dubois. And the. third fight is my fat, greedy belly. Tyson Fury. So he's not going to A. rematch with Dubois is a tough sell. He. just starched him. The Tyson Fury fight is the big fight. Cuz Tyson Fury is the only guy that in.

my eyes makes sense. Says a fight with. Jake Paul in MMA at this stage is not. being considered, but we're always open. to creative and interesting. collaborations in the future. If we were. talking about crossover fights, a very. interesting match-up could be against. Jon Jones in the United States. Woah. >> I don't know what Jon's going to do, man, with all the stuff going on with. the UFC. He might be done. He might Who knows? >> want to be done. Um I know he got stem cells on his hip. Um I know cuz I helped him get it. He. got it over at uh he's talked about it.

I wouldn't have talked about it, but he. talked about it. Um he got it at Waste 2. Well. And so, uh he he's feeling a lot. better. He does have arthritis in his. hip. It bothers him, but it doesn't. bother him enough where he can't fight. And, you know, he's the greatest of all. time, period. I did stem cells and PRP. in my hip. I didn't notice anything from. that. Well, it really depends on where. you're getting the stem cells, what. technology they're using. There's a. bunch of different kinds of stem cells. Talk to Brigham about that. He can. explain it to you. >> maybe one But, you had a labrum tear,

right? It was pretty significant. >> Yeah, and I had to get the head of my. femur reshaped. Like a resurfacing. It. was kind of egg-shaped and it didn't. need to be rounded. So, it tore. everything off the inside of my hip. So, what how do they do that? They take your. leg out of socket. They. they. shave the top rounded and then they. micro they put like. a bunch of small holes in it to create. cracks and then stem cells leak out of. your body to create a new surface out of. your bone. How long did that take to recover from? >> I couldn't put pressure on it for 8. weeks. Wow. Yeah, cuz it's like So,

you're just walking around on one leg. for 2 months? Crutches. Yeah. And then. once you start walking on it again, how. weird was it? Very weird cuz I had to sleep in like a. a motion machine where my leg wouldn't. stop moving at night. >> Oh my god. >> hip capsule is like tricky. If you if it. heals up too tight, then your leg won't. have any any range of motion at all. So, while it's healing, you need to be in. perpetual motion, I guess. That's crazy. And every week they would send a new. code for my wife to type in the machine, and it would be a little bit different. angle. Woah.

>> Yeah. So, my my What a nightmare. >> For those 8 weeks, I was sleeping in. this metal brace that moved my leg all. night. How did you sleep? >> It was horrible cuz it went up to like. your your junk in inside your leg and. your outside your leg. So, it's like. you had a wedgie by this machine, and. your legs just motion all night. Oh my. god. >> Yeah. It sucked, man. That's terrifying. But, it healed I'm fine now. It healed. up good. >> That's crazy that it worked. >> Yeah. Wow. >> Resurfacing. Woah. The guy actually who did it in. Vail, Colorado invented the surgery.

GSP's had hip surgery there. Really? >> Yeah. He invented this surgery. And GSP. had to do the same [ __ ] I don't. know if he had exactly what I had, but. he he had surgery there on his hip. >> God, that sounds like 2 months of no. sleeping. How did you sleep? Did you get used to. it? Well, the first. week with pain medicine and stuff, you're on all that stuff. It was after. like when I stopped taking all that Pain. medicine must have been fun. Do do do do. do do do do do do Triple Z, dude. I was. having dreams and.

>> [laughter]. >> getting the best sleep of my life. Yeah, that's the time where it makes sense to. take that [ __ ] Like you're in a [ __ ]. crazy brace. Let's party. Yeah, for. sure. >> Netflix and just not give a [ __ ] about. my leg moving all [ __ ]. >> machine. Hamster wheel. For real. Whatever the hell's happening to my leg. I was on one of those when I got my knee. reconstructed. You had a bunch of knee. surgeries. >> Yeah, but my left knee uh they put I had. a. patella tendon graft, and they put me on. one of them things where it does this. like when I was in the hospital and had. a morphine drip.

>> So, you could press the button to get. more morphine. I was like boink boink. boink boink. >> Dude, just lying there. I had the same thing on my hip. They they put a epidural, and then they. had a nerve block through my stomach. So, I was like completely paralyzed from. the waist down. Wow. >> But I had the button thing. I don't. think it was working anymore cuz I. >> [laughter]. >> I I ripped it out. It was You redlined it. >> shooting blanks, man. >> That's hilarious. It is weird though to. see your like knee constantly moving. forward, but I only had to do it like a. couple of nights. I did it for weeks. I.

can't imagine. That must have been so hard to sleep, man. Yeah, the motion wasn't so bad cuz it's. kind of slow. Oh, okay. >> It was the metal in my groin. Oh, yeah. It probably. rubbed it raw and [ __ ] Yeah. Oh, god. Yeah, man. >> [ __ ] man. >> But I like I said, I was on the pain. medicine, so It's crazy that it all. worked though. Yeah, dude. >> Shout out to that doctor. Shout out to. all these doctors. I say that all the. time like both my knees would be [ __ ]. completely useless if it wasn't for. amazing doctors. Right. Shout out to.

these guys for figuring [ __ ] out. I. worked with Paul Felder at that Vegas. show and uh he just had a hip. replacement. >> Yeah, he had the real deal, right? >> so Yeah, no, he had a replacement my. replacement. Why did he have to do that. versus what you did? I'm not sure. exactly. It's something to do with the. spacing, I think, inside your hip, how. much spacing you have. Cuz [snorts] my spacing was good. I'm I. wasn't a candidate for a replacement. Well, Paul went full nutty after he's. top fighting and started doing Ironmans. Yeah, dude, he was telling me he travels. with a bicycle. He does like. >> Still does that? >> cycling for 5 hours like in a hotel.

room, like crazy. That's not good. That's unhealthy. Crazy, man. That's. unhealthy. Yeah. Why you doing that, Paul? >> 5 hours, he told me. Well, the same kind. of drive that made him a great MMA. fighter made him want to like be the. best Ironman dude in the world. You need. something like that, man. Way before the surgery, just a couple. years ago when he first got Mhm. diagnosed, I guess, with some injury. Yeah. It's a range of motion in my right. hip. Reached out to him and Dr. D from. the UFC to help with an MRI. Long story. short, I have the hips of an 80-year-old. man.

No soft tissue left, grinding bone on. bone. Ooh. The problem is once they put a. artificial joint in you, you have that. artificial joint forever. They're never. It's never going back. >> Yeah. And as biologics get better and. stem cells get better, they're they're. better and better at re-healing or. healing that that actual tissue. And if. you could just hang in there and like. this is the kind of the conversation. that I had with John because. if you could just hang in there, they're. so close. They're injecting stuff into.

discs now and making the discs larger. Right. So like people with back problems where. the doctors like, "Look, we got to take. some of your disc out." No, hang in. there. Hang and also look into other. therapies. Decompression, there's a lot. of different things that you could do. that can create space where your you. know, disc is pushing against your. nerves, you can alleviate a lot of that. >> Surgery is the absolute last. >> Especially with your back. Absolute last. >> back. Look, if you have a blown ACL. >> you up. They'll do it anytime, you know?

It's good business. Cut you open then. the. the medicines, the the hardware, everything. It's a it's a it's a racket. That's the last step. That's the. problem. When when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail. And you. know, and when doctors get paid for. doing surgery, they want to do surgery. cuz that's where they make their living. Right. And it's uh it's a real problem. with stuff like the back because I don't. know anybody that's had a back surgery. and been better. Right. You know, the. only big one I could think of I remember. Nate Quarry was a big advocate for some.

company. Remember he had a He had a. artificial spacer. Yeah. He had. artificial discs put in his back way. back in the day. Yeah, he's the guy I. think about back surgery. But he also. like got It was an intense pain because. of that. And I think it wound up like. becoming a problem later on. Like I know. guys that initially had some relief. because of back surgery and then it. started getting way worse after that and. then had to follow-ups. Always the same. story like.

Same thing with necks. Like you lose. strength, it's always bothering you for. the rest of your life. Like Mike Brown. has a fusion where they went in through. the front. Fusions are rough. >> My buddy Aljamain had a neck surgery. where they Kayla Harrison just had one. Like once you have that, something. >> have done? >> I don't know exactly. I don't want to. say the wrong thing. >> anybody. I know that I'm pretty sure. they went in through the front. >> Right, but I don't think she's telling. anybody what exactly happened cuz look, Aljamain had a disc replaced and he came. back and beat Petr Yan in the rematch. and looked [ __ ] great and fought. really well with that neck issue.

>> hear him complaining about it. >> No, I mean he said it's great. >> Yeah. I think that that the new. artificial discs that they're putting in. the necks, a lot of them it works out. really well. I know quite [snorts] a few. people that have had those. I've been. fortunate, man. I haven't had any neck. She had a repair a repair her needed. discs in her neck. Right. So, the thing is what they usually do is. just take some of the. the disc out and then you have less. disc. So, it's not bulging anymore, but. you have less disc now. So, now you have.

more degenerative disc issues and. I just think there's other options and. one of the options is decompression. I. don't know know if anybody ran that by. her, but I have a [ __ ] neck harness. that I I. I it's attached to a chin-up bar and I. put it around my neck, it straps under. my chin and I put my weight on it. I. just like stretch my neck out. It works. >> You know, relieving I hear it pop like. pop pop. >> It says they replaced the disc. >> Oh, she had a replace. Okay, so so she.

got that thing that Aljamain got done. Yeah, how's she going to fight that. quickly? Yeah, yeah, look at that. I wonder what her turnaround time is. I. mean, international fight week maybe her. and Amanda? Well, she's fighting isn't. she was supposed to be fighting at the. White Hart card. Her and Amanda were supposed to. They. decided not to do that. Yeah. So, maybe [snorts] the summer? Maybe. Cuz it's going to be I mean, that's a. big her and Amanda. It's a big fight, but I mean.

there's a possibility that you do. something like that and you're never the. same again. So, she might not ever. >> surgery, yeah. >> Yeah, it's like you're whenever you're. dealing with your spine, it's very. tricky. Yeah. You know, it's just one of those. things. It's like uh uh. Shoulders, knees. Mhm. There's some. things, man, you don't want to injure. I. don't think anybody's ever come back. from a knee replacement and fought MMA. I've never heard of that. I've heard of. disc replacements. I've heard of A lot. of knee surgeries, guys come back. But. Destacada. was the worst. Remember that when he.

fought Khalil and Khalil side kicked his. knee sideways? >> And he hyper extended it? Oh, went. sideways. It's John does that knee stomp. thing, too. I don't I don't know how I feel about. that, man. Well, Ian Garry did it to. Shavkat. I don't know how I feel about. that. >> [ __ ] Shavkat's knee up. I know, it's. kind of [ __ ] because look, yes, it's. effective, but so is eye pokes. >> like it's That's what I was about to. say. I feel like it's kind of dirty, like it legalize eye pokes. It is dirty. It I mean, so are nut shots. I mean, nut. shots are effective, too. Are we going. to allow those? No. I mean, why are we. allowing someone to do a technique that.

you can't. >> have 12 to 6 elbows now, so that's at. least we're getting somewhere. >> Yeah, I like that. >> Yeah. [snorts]. >> But I'd rather have knees to a grounded. opponent than kicking the knee sideways. It just seems like. it takes a year off of your career, at. least. So can a knee bar, so can a arm. bar, like Yeah, but you can tap. True. True, true, true. >> You get a knee bar, you can tap. Inside. heel hooks are scariest cuz you only got. a couple of like microseconds to tap. When you get that one, that one's so. nasty, the knee across You have no time.

You just got to tap. Yeah. You just got. to know when you're done. You got to. know when he got you and not let it Did. you ever see when Mikey Musumeci fought. some cat in I think I think I know what. you're talking about. >> dude would not tap. He was just ripping. his knee apart and Mikey was talking. about it afterwards. He was saying it. was so gross. I was like, why Why make. me do that to you? Right. Why didn't you. just tap? He mangled that guy's leg. >> I saw a highlight of that. It was. horrible. It's so horrible to watch. You. got it? Yeah, show me.

Yeah, let's see this. Here it is. Like. look at this. Look at his leg. Bro. Bro. Bro. That is almost as nasty. as watching that armbar or that uh. guillotine. From Dan Miller. Look at this. This dude won't tap. It's so crazy. And Mikey is just a master at destroying. your knees. Any normal human being would. have tapped. Yeah. Yeah, for sure. And he does this. like seven times in this match where he. rips this guy's leg sideways, left ways,

right ways. The guy's knee's destroyed. Like look at that Look how nasty this. is, man. This is so nasty. Look how that angle, too. That angle's. so awful. The fact that this dude is. just tolerating it like right there. That's destroyed. That is destroyed. I don't [clears throat] know if that. dude ever competed again afterwards. >> never be the same No, not the same. He. won't be the same. He won't be He'll never be 100%. Like. you get your [ __ ] ripped apart like.

that. For sure there's some meniscus. damage, MCL, MCL, everything. [ __ ] that. Heel hooks, that changed the. game. >> man, with my knees. I have a torn. meniscus [snorts] in my right knee, but. never needed surgery, you know. Had a partial tear in my ACL when I. fought Islam. He pulled me off against. the fence and my knee slid and I felt. the tear. Felt like fire in my knee, you. know. And when you feel pain in a fight, you know it's bad cuz you usually don't. >> Right. >> But I felt it burning like fire. Um. But you didn't need surgery? Didn't need. surgery. Did a bunch of physical.

therapy. Uh I had a partial tear. There's something called maybe a. ligamendum or something that connects. where your ACL is. Every time you tear. your ACL, the ligamendum's completely. torn. Always. And uh mine had a partial tear. in that. So I must have took the weight. off or we switched a position right. before it tore my ACL. Oh. Yeah, but I. had like bruising, you know, back of my. leg was all bruised up. Couldn't bend it. for a little bit. >> But now it's 100%. >> Yeah, I feel great. Yeah, that's. interesting like um. Arnold out No, who was it that was. telling me that?

Like there's different people that have. had different levels of tears. and then in those levels of tears, like. some of them you can come back from 100%. but some of them. Okay, this dude. >> a broken ankle, too. Oh my god. So this. dude that. Try saying his name. How do you say his name? Gantemur. Byanduran. Um so this is the guy Mikey Musumeci. He. was torn ACL, torn MCL, torn meniscus.

and a broken ankle. That's crazy. That's crazy. He did like a toe hold or. something? How did he break his ankle? So it was Oh, it was Brendan Allen. Was. Brendan Allen was in the podcast. He was. telling me this. He tore his ACL. completely and never got it fixed and it. reattached. Wow. >> Yeah, like at a slightly different angle. but reattached. Like it tore off but it. was still hanging in there and it. re-healed. Uh-huh. I was like that's not. I've never even heard of that before. But I know some people that have had.

like a three-quarter tear and it heals. but it's not really the same. Right. >> It's still a little funky. You know Brad. Pickett fought his whole career with the. torn no ACL in one of his legs. I think. Justin has that situation. >> Yeah? Yeah. >> Like Brad would sit on the ground on the. mat and then grab his shin and slide it. forward you could see like the. the mo- the movement. How does that not. chew your meniscus apart? >> so many fights like that. >> Oh my god. Well, Rico Rodriguez did, too. Rico [snorts] always had a blown out. ACL. Huh. And he fought.

>> Rico was down in Louisiana for a while, man. Rico Rodriguez was. Oh, he was one of. the first Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu black. belts. I trained with him at Tim's gym. before. Yeah, he's he was really good on the. ground, man. Rico was really good on the. ground. And he was a UFC heavyweight. champion. >> I People forget. Dude, I didn't even. know who he was. I was sparring him. That's crazy. Was a heavyweight champion. of the UFC. I'm like, no way. I know, isn't that funny? >> out of shape, you know, I was like, who's this big tattooed guy? Let's go. >> [laughter]. >> There's a lot of guys that people. forgot. They've they slept on. It's.

interesting when you think about that. >> He was running a gym in Baton Rouge, Louisiana. I don't know if he still is. >> Rico was? >> Yeah. He had partnered with the Baton. Rouge? >> In Baton Rouge, Louisiana. He took over. an LA boxing. They They turned it into a. UFC gym now. But he was part owner or. something. He was running it. Wow. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a hard road when guys retire. and people don't even remember them. Like at least you have you have a giant. name. Like you're always going to be. able to do seminars. You always People. are always going to want to bring you. into events. You You have a career no.

matter what. Yeah, I've been doing a lot. of watch parties where I get with the. fans and watch the fights. It's fun, man. I enjoy it. That's cool. It's. sometimes a little awkward cuz the fans. will stick around too long. Like I'm. watching the fights. You come sit at my booth and like we run. out of things to talk about. It's like, okay, man. >> Hey, man, let me get your number. Like, hey, bro. Oh, hey, my buddy's on. FaceTime. Can you talk to so-and-so? [clears throat] Like, dude, just chill. I know. Some people just can't hang. Dude, but I fought. like I said, 19 years I say 20, but it's. 19 years that I fought. Until the Conor fight, like that's when. things changed for me.

Recognition-wise, yeah. Wow, that's. interesting. That's crazy because. >> door opened for seminars, for. appearances. That's That changed. changed. >> That's so weird. And I had been in so. many UFC main events. I had fought for. the belt, done all this stuff, but this. that guy's name, man. Isn't it nuts how. just personality got him so Well, obviously very skilled. For sure. >> Alvarez fight, that's to Conor in his. prime form when he was in the main. event. >> Aldo, yes. Eddie. The Aldo fight was.

great, but it cuz it was one shot and. easy. And And nobody's done that to Aldo. ever. >> Ever. Ever. And since. That was amazing, but it but the Alvarez. fight was him in the Matrix. When the. punches were literally. touching his nose and he's firing back. those combinations, he was just in the. zone. He [snorts] was That was focused Conor. >> walk in the park, you know. >> No, Eddie's good, man. Eddie's tough as. [ __ ] When Eddie beat. Dos Anjos, I was like, holy [ __ ] man. I.

was always a big Eddie fan. Oh, he was. always a back of a dream. >> with Chandler. You want to talk about. taking years off your life. >> Yep. Yep. Those fights that those two. had that nobody was watching other than. the hardcore guys, those were To this. day, I tell people, you want to watch. some chaos? Watch Eddie Alvarez and. Michael Chandler in Bellator. They're. some of the best fights of all time. >> drag out, both guys. If you're a fan of chaos, watch those. fights. Those fights were [ __ ].

bananas. And so that's what we anticipated when. Chandler came over. And then we knocked. out Dan Hooker in the first round. I was. like, oh [ __ ] he's here. >> Same card. Same card as me and Conor. But I think that it was too late. I. think we he had already suffered so much. punishment and been so If we got a hold. of Michael Chandler like 6, 7 years. before that, when he was fighting in. Bellator, this is the problem with PFL, this is the problem with Bellator, and I. don't think it's a problem cuz I think. these guys are prize fighters. You know,

like I think Francis Ngannou said it. best when he was talking about this. Netflix card. They're saying Someone. said to him, do you think this is this. [ __ ] with your legacy? He goes, legacy, who's legacy for? For you? He goes, [ __ ]. you, keep your legacy. Give me my money. Give me my pay. This is what I'm. supposed to be getting. I'm I'm Francis. Ngannou. And I think he's right. But. he's Francis Ngannou. He's already the. UFC heavyweight champion. Left as the. UFC heavyweight champion. But for a lot of these guys that are. starting their career, their best years.

are in these other organizations and not. enough people know. Like Johnny Eblen, perfect example you. were talking about before. He knocked. out Leon Edwards' brother. I mean, he's. he's [ __ ] good, man. >> Beat Beat Mousasi. I cornered him when. he beat Mousasi. Dude, Mousasi's. Mousasi's a legend. >> up watching him. A legend. >> Yeah. There's a guy, another one, good. guy that people forgot about. Gegard. Mousasi. He was a [ __ ] beast, man. >> it to the UFC, I was already such a big. fan, but like the casuals didn't know. who he was. Oh, he was so good, dude. Gegard was so good, so smart. Right. Just so smart and so unassuming. Was it.

him who up-kicked Jacare back Yeah. Yeah. Into a triangle. >> Yep. Yeah, man. >> Yep. Yeah, I think that was in Dream. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, Gegard was a beast, man. He was a beast. >> Eddie Eddie Alvarez in Dream was a bunch. of good fights. Gegard stopped Weidman in the UFC. Really good fundamental boxing, great. jab. >> Yeah, great everywhere, man. Yeah, good. wrestling, good wrestling defense, man. Just super smart, too. Just a very, very. intelligent guy. Super calm. put on the.

shelf with that Bellator deal. He got put on the shelf and I don't know. what's going on with him. Mousasi I. don't know. I don't know. He might not. even be Mousasi. last fall. >> He might not even still be under. contract with the with PFL or whatever. >> Well, I think he's 40 now. Yeah, he's He. was old in the UFC. Yeah, he's got to be. close to 40, if not older. Where Where's Gegard Mousasi these days? Uh. oh, he got drafted in the Global Fight. League. >> [laughter]. >> It got canceled, I think. Oh, that thing. I knew that was a going.

to fall apart from the jump. >> That thing was weird. When I was talking. to coaches at American Top Team and they. were telling me like all these ex-UFC. fighters, what their contracts were with. this company, I was like, "Dude, they. haven't even put on one show and they're. signing guys to these kind of. contracts?" I mean, the money was crazy. So, 2023 was his last fight. How old is. he now? So, he lost to Fabian Edwards, the same. guy that Eblen knocked out. 40? 40. Yeah, cornered Eblen. in that fight, dude. He got cut so bad. with an elbow. Like I can see the vein.

in his I have it in my phone. It was. crazy. I have it in my phone. The vein still. intact. It didn't cut the vein, but you. can see it. Oh, boy. >> Oh, it's pretty pretty gnarly. And then. he stopped him. Yeah, elbow. Yeah. >> in we were in Ireland. Yeah, Ebeline's a tough guy, man. And I. think he's like one of those guys that's. like at the very top of the heap at 185. But again, I know about him, but how. many people do? That's unfortunate. [snorts]. >> Yeah. You know, because he's been. fighting in the UFC for how many. years Well, he was Bellator. Bellator. and then they fought him, yeah. For how. many years now? A long time. I mean, I.

think he might have had. one or two fights when Bellator signed. him. He got in early at Bellator. But he's a student, man. He's going to. keep getting better. He's pretty young. Young still. Submitting Marcon is crazy. That's. crazy. Right? And you think how small he is? He's fought at 185 in the UFC. And he. submitted 260-lb Marcon. Gegard Mousasi. was a [ __ ] beast. He was a technique. Yep. >> just technique Technique, toughness, and. intelligence. Just so crafty. Just so.

good everywhere. Good on the ground, good standing up. >> patient, man. With article. Yeah. Yeah, I've always been a fan of. him. There's a lot of those guys that. just got people forget about. They. forgot, you know. Yeah, there's a bunch. I would say people one guy that people. underestimated because they didn't get. to see him when he was in his prime or. they just forgot is Masvidal. Oh, man. >> People forgot how good Masvidal is. Masvidal knocked out Leon Edwards with a. head kick. Remember that? in Bodog. >> Yep. Yeah, bro. Masvidal in his prime was a.

[ __ ]. He was good. When he knocked out Darren. Till, remember that [ __ ] That switch. step or Oh my god. >> Yeah, of course. Switch step, I think he. caught him with a left hook. Knocked him. out in cold. cold And he was a dog. Like. when he started focusing on his. wrestling, he was at the Hook and Strike. Force, man. At 55, like he was. Oh, yeah. He was a dog back then. >> Masvidal was a beast, man. >> And he's good everywhere, man. He's good. everywhere. He has good jiu-jitsu, good. wrestling, good kickboxing. Yeah. >> everywhere. I mean, when he went up to.

170, that's not really his weight class. His real weight class is 55. >> Yeah, but I think as he got older, he. he's he's a big guy. He's a big guy. He. has really thick legs and he's a little. bit taller. Taller than me for sure, but. But like when he was really competitive, I feel like it was at 55. >> Yeah. But I mean, like he gave guys. problems at 70. Like the the Darren Till. fight was at 70. He [ __ ] a lot of guys. up at 70. >> Cowboy. Yep, Cowboy. Was that at 70? >> Body shot 170. Damn. Yeah. No, Masvidal, people forgot. There's people and then,

you know, he was having those backyard. fights in the Kimbo Slice days. >> Yep, yep. Which is crazy. The bare knuckle Kimbo fights Kimbo. Slice fights. >> Yeah, man. Kimbo used to come to American Top Team, used to bring his kids and stuff. It was. crazy talking to him cuz I grew up. watching his fights, you know. But he was like the first guy to become. a legend on YouTube. Yeah. >> You know. Yeah, everybody knows who he. is. Plus he looked so cool. The bald. head and the beard and the hair in the. back. Like everything was crazy. The. braids in the back. >> Yeah, super jacked.

And just [ __ ] people up in the. backyard. >> Yeah. Like they were moving around like. satellite dishes and [ __ ] A bodyguard. or a driver for a guy in Miami who. started a porn company and that's how it. started. >> Exactly. And they organized these fights. >> Yep. Where there was just no warm-up. Just all right, let's go. Slap. >> out the car in the front front driveway. and walk to the back and just start. scrapping. >> I know, it was crazy. But as a kid, like. when that stuff came out as a kid, that. was such a big thing to watch, you know, that we had to download it illegally on. like LimeWire or something back then.

before, you know. That was tough wild times. And then to. see him in the UFC in The Ultimate. Fighter, dude, what a journey that guy. had. >> I know, what balls it took for him to do. that, to enter into the UFC with like. basically zero grappling. Yeah. And he. like really just kind of learning the. sport, but you know, so. >> Good boxing, but I don't think like gym, not trained boxing, just natural ability. and Well, he definitely had some. training, right? >> The way he moved was even in the bare. knuckle, the way he moved was like a. boxer shell, you know? Yeah. Like a Mike. Tyson movement. Yeah, but it was like.

kind of rudimentary. Remember when he. fought Seth Petruzelli? Yeah. Yeah, like. last minute. Petruzelli comes in last. minute, like Ken Shamrock had some sort. of a dispute with them and maybe got cut. backstage or something said I had a cut. And so like last minute they swapped out. Seth Petruzelli. And he knocked him out. >> Yeah. I called that one. >> [clears throat and cough]. >> I called that one on camera. >> No, I wasn't doing it the commentary. I. think it was Elite XC. I think that. bankrupt them or something. I don't know. how like they That fight bankrupt. [snorts] them? >> I don't know if it bankrupt them, but.

after that happened they didn't have any. more shows after that. Well, I think. they were going under anyway. Unfortunately. I don't know how that. fight would have bankrupt them, but. Well, they had some guy who was a boxing. guy who was running the whole thing. What's his name? Gary Shaw? I don't I. don't know him back then. >> I don't remember either. But I you know, like it's hard to make money in these. things, man. Like those things are hard. They cut like the UFC doesn't get the. credit it deserves in terms of the. promotional machine. Like that's a. smooth-running machine. >> Oh, yeah. >> That machine's been around for a long. time. It's so polished between the.

production, all the guys in the truck, the directors, the producers. >> best of the best. >> Yeah, they're the best. It's hard and. then you got all the best fighters. And. it's like the product So, when they have. a fight like Holloway and and Oliveira. and like, "Oh, this fight wasn't good.". Like. That's a great fight, man. It's just you. you can't be a casual. People are just. blood thirsty. >> Yeah. You know, like this Listen, to do. that to Max Holloway's crazy. Do you not. appreciate that? Go watch baseball.

>> Wrestlers, great grapplers have never. done that to him. I know. It's nuts. It's nuts if you think about it. Yeah. >> [sighs]. >> It's exciting, man. The UFC's definitely. the best at it. With this whole. Paramount thing I was kind of We'll see. how it turns out. I was kind of worried. like if you take pay-per-view off the. table, Mhm. how much are you is UFC going to put the. biggest fights together cuz they don't. need to sell pay-per-views. They're. guaranteed money. You know, I was just. wondering if that would not water it. down, but it would get a bunch [snorts]. of weaker cards and I'm still waiting to. find out, man. Well, it is weird, right?

Because with pay-per-view, you're always. building it up so that people buy it. And then it also points. Like the. fighters get paid points. >> so how are fighters getting paid now? >> That's I've been asking every show I. work. I ask everybody. I want to know. cuz I've you know, my last few years in. the UFC I I was. >> Nobody's telling you? Nobody's telling. me anything. They're keeping you in the. dark? >> Keeping me in the dark. >> [ __ ] is that, man? >> Keeping me in the dark, man. >> [snorts]. >> Cuz you know, I was pay-per-view partner. multiple fights with the UFC. Mhm. If. there's and that was always the thing. they kind of in this in in discussion.

about contracts and about future fights. that they kind of held over you like. >> Right. you win this fight, one day. you're going to fight for the belt, you're going to get pay-per-view, your. life's going to change. That was always. a carrot they hung like to make you. know, to do anything to That was a goal. to one day fight for the belt and get. the pay-per-view money. But now that. that's gone, I mean Conor's not going to. fight. Even Justin at the White House, there's no way these guys aren't. fighting with that backdoor money. Mhm. >> So, they must be just guaranteeing them. a bigger per I don't know. Well, I think. Justin would fight no matter what. because it's for the title. This is his. last fight. >> Well, that yeah, the title the title.

But any pay-per-view guy. >> at the White House, he's a patriot, it's. the last fight, you know. I think he would fight no. matter what, but. like, you know, Ronda Rousey, uh you know, she's promoting the Netflix. fight and she made I don't know if you. saw what she said, but she had this big. long speech about the UFC selling for $7. billion and these fighters aren't making. enough money and you know, look, she. made some good points and the most. important thing is that she gets the. conversation out there and it puts.

pressure on the UFC to pay people more. You know, and if Netflix [clears throat]. can become successful at MMA, if can. become successful putting cars together. and pulling fighters away. Like right. now they're doing a one-off, right? It's. one-off and it's kind of a gimmicky. thing. >> And listen, this payroll is going to be. crazy. It's going to be crazy. >> You got Ronda, Francis, Nate, these. everybody's getting crazy money. The. payroll is going to be nuts. But if. anybody's got that kind of money, it's. Netflix. They throw around a lot of. ridiculous money. They make so much.

money. Mhm. So they can kind of do that. The question is are they going to do. that more than once? So if they do that. more than once, then what happens is. it's all about the name of the fighters, just like boxing. Like in boxing, no one. cares if it's Golden Boy, >> No, of course Bob Arum, nobody cares. about that. What they care about is. who's fighting who. Is it Benavidez, who's he fighting? Is he fighting Bivol? Let's go. That's a great fight. So if if. Netflix can kind of do the boxing thing. on Netflix.

with like big name stars, they can be a. major player and that will elevate. everybody's pay scale. So as as a lot of. people like, oh Ronda, how could you. turn your back on the UFC and talk [ __ ]. like that? Is If she's what she's saying doesn't. make any sense, she can't say it. Right? So if what she's saying makes sense, then you have to go she's got a point. Yeah. She's got a point. She's got a. point. They sold it for $7 billion. or whatever it is. They got this billion $7 billion deal,

whatever the [ __ ] deal was with. Paramount, not even selling it, sold. rights to it, right? That makes sense. She's making sense. And so if she's saying this and Netflix. listens and if someone comes along and. they're a shrewd businessman, they go, "Look, and there's a lot of people their. contracts are coming up." And when these. people's contracts are coming up, let's. get into negotiations. And then all of a. sudden some people start drifting over. Yeah. So if like you get like an Islam. Makhachev starts leaving and they leave. and go fight on Netflix and then they. can talk four or five top major. contenders into doing Look, it's a big.

ask. Look, I love the UFC. Spent my most of my professional career. there, but I love seeing these other. organizations come up and people making. money. It right Like you said, it rises. every everything. It's more places for. people to work, you know? It's It's. great. It's only good. >> Olivier Aubin-Mercier made a million. dollars Come on. >> in the PFL. Yeah. And uh I think he made. it more than once, right? Didn't he win. the tournament twice or something like. that? I'm not sure. He definitely won at least. once. So, like a Canadian gangster? Right. A guy who's not in the top 10 of.

the UFC goes over to another. organization and makes a million. dollars. Okay. I don't know if that's. sustainable for them. I don't know how. they came up with that money. >> to be bleeding money out there. They. have to be bleeding money. Nobody's. watching. >> Or even guys like Pettis, who was a. former world champion, who you know his. contract was good in the UFC. >> Right. Didn't choose not to resign with. the UFC and he went to PFL. They had to. be paying him big money. >> They have to be. >> You know? So, it's all competition ultimately is good. for the most important thing, which is.

paying the fighters. >> Yeah. So, I'm happy. >> to work. Like if the UFC cuts you or. something, you back at you know. 10 years ago, there's only place to make. money. Right. They cut you, now you got. to get a job, maybe fight try to get. back in part-time fighting, like try to. get you know Now you can pivot and still. have a career. Well, this is the thing. with Francis. When Francis left the PFL, everybody was like, "Well, now he's. [ __ ] because he can't fight in the. UFC. Can't Like I wanted him to come. back to the UFC." And I was like, "Come. on. Can we figure out a way to make this. happen?".

>> But Dana just does not want to have. anything to do with him. Like apparently. they did not get along very well. Which is like, I'm like, "Come on.". Yeah. >> I don't Can Can I help? Can I [ __ ] get you guys in a room. together and [ __ ] calm everybody. down? But. at the most important thing is if. there's another place to play. >> watch. Oh, yeah. >> [ __ ] yeah. He's still a guy I want to. watch. I mean, he's still a legit. heavyweight champion, if you think about. it. He never got beat in MMA as a. heavyweight champion. You know, and then. he fought Renan Ferreira uh.

in PFL? Yeah. It's another ATT guy. But. it's another one where it's like who's. watching that? I mean, and if you're. watching it, you're just watching it for. Francis. >> and you. Yeah. >> Yeah. Like I mean, I want to know like. what were the numbers for that fight? It's probably the biggest fight they. ever put on. I don't think I've ever. seen any numbers from PFL. And I think. like the great he was like getting 20. million a fight and he wanted his. opponents to get. a huge amount, too. I forget what the he. had like a minimum amount his opponents.

would get in his contract. >> Respect. I didn't know that. Yeah, that's awesome. >> that's part of his contract. Good for. him. >> I forget what the number was, but it was. substantial. So, Renan Ferreira got a a giant payday. for that fight, too. Good. It's like how. are they Where are they getting I guess. they have Saudi money. >> [snorts]. >> I think they did for some of the shows. cuz they went to Saudi to to do some. shows, but uh. I don't know if they're backing them the. whole the whole company. >> You you you're going to need something. like Netflix. And Netflix can kind of pull it off cuz.

Netflix has a massive promotional. machine and but they they need big. names. So, like now that they have Nate. and Mike Perry on the card, too, like. okay. Okay, so you got Nate, Mike Perry, you got Francis, Philip Lins, you have. uh Ronda and Gina. Okay. Now you have. three interesting fights. Yeah. You're. going to need a few more. And it's on. Netflix, so it's going to be free, but. even if Nate and Mike Perry was the head. of the headliner, I would have bought. that pay-per-view. 100%. But you don't. have to buy it. It's on Netflix. >> So, this is what gets interesting. So,

if this fight goes on Netflix and gets. to 50 million views. >> It's going to get a lot. Yeah. >> Yeah. more views than any fight ever. It. could. It's very possible that that cuz. Netflix is bigger than anything. If they got more views than anybody ever. that would be [ __ ] but And YouTube. might come along and go hey. >> Most views on a mixed martial arts. event? Hey guys, we're YouTube. We're. even bigger than Netflix cuz YouTube is. bigger than [ __ ] Netflix. YouTube is. everywhere. And if they come up with.

some crazy case if more players get. involved in this and more people become. free agents, it could get very. interesting. Dude, it's crazy to see how. far the sport has come cuz like back all. these big companies wouldn't want to. touch this human [ __ ] fighting back in. the day. Now everybody wants a piece of. the pie. I know it's It's cool now, they. know. Yeah, it's wild. >> right? That cage fighting became. something that like corporate America. wants to get involved in. >> the airport. I'm in the grocery store. Grandmothers, all you know, ladies are. walking up to me talking about fights, which is insane. Insane.

>> Insane cuz 15 years ago it was. bearded guys with tattoos would be in. the grocery store. we'd whisper about it, you know? >> Mhm. It was frowned upon. We'd talk. about Fight Club, you know? >> Yeah. Now it's like soccer moms. "Did you see the fight last weekend? The. armbar?" I'm like, "What are you talking. about?". >> Well, that's all the UFC. UFC with that one deal. The Fertittas. have such huge balls because they were. down $40 million. when they made that deal for Spike TV to. do The Ultimate Fighter. And they were. like, "We're [ __ ] hemorrhaging.

money." And they were talking about. selling it. >> And just a perfect storm. I know. Forrest. >> [snorts]. >> The world was watching, man. And it felt. special. I remember being at my mother's. house. I knew I was watching something special. Yeah. >> Like this is special. I know. It was. crazy being there live, too. It was so. nuts. It was so nuts to watch it evolve and. watch it burst out. And by then, by. 2005, I'd already been working for them. for like 4 years. Cuz I Well, I started in '97 with the. old owners and I did like the backstage.

and post-fight interviews. And then I. did it for a little bit and then I had. to quit. I was like, "This is costing me. money." Yeah. I made more money going to. a comedy club for a weekend than I would. flying to Dothan, Alabama. To. >> [laughter]. >> Shreveport, Bossier City, Louisiana. >> But I I was happy I did it cuz it was. fun and it's exciting. And I remember me. and Eddie Bravo back then were like, "Man, you know what the UFC needs?" This. is like literally a conversation we had. in like '98. They need some crazy. billionaires that love the sport to just.

dump a bunch of money in it cuz we know. it's exciting. It's just the rest of the. world doesn't know. And along came the. Fertittas. And they did it. Dude, they. saw it and rode that vision out and it. paid off. It's nuts. I mean, it's. literally like exactly what we said. needed to happen. And then for that. fight to happen in The Ultimate Fighter. between Stephan Bonnar and Forrest. Griffin cuz it was a perfect kind of. fight was it was so evenly matched. It. was so chaotic and they knew each other. so well from being in the house. together. They just went after it. For. three solid rounds at the end, both guys.

were like, "Uh." But dude that They had. nothing. How could the idea of. the actual Kumite idea of putting the. best fighters from all over the world, whatever discipline they train in, let's. find out who's the best. That's I mean, that it has it's of course it's going to. succeed. It's chaos. Yeah. It's. everything you want to see. And the. crazy thing it was really kind of. invented as a showcase for Gracie. Jiu-Jitsu. Cuz the Hélio Gracie was like, you know, like, "Look, Jiu-Jitsu's going to. prevail." And he was kind of right. >> mean at first. Dude, Royce was in there. against giants. Dan Severn. Dude, come.

on. >> Kimo. What did he weigh? 180 lb? 190 lb? Maybe. Not even. I think he was 176 I. think Fighting these bodybuilders. >> And I asked him why they pick him. He. goes, "Look at this face. And look how. beautiful I am. I'm so good-looking. That's why they pick me." Wearing. pajamas with even knowing what a gi was. >> [cough]. >> Well, I had no idea Jiu-Jitsu was that. that effective. I was so confused. Yeah. I was like, "Someone's going to. kick him. He's [ __ ] Someone's going. to punch him.". And no. Like, he's just taking dudes to.

the ground. That stomp that like. sidekick. >> of anything that they're doing. Just. letting them pass guard. Letting them. Oh, yeah. Do anything. You don't know. any He's choking guys with the gi, too. He's grabbing his own collar. and I'm. like, "Oh, this is wild.". >> That's one thing I do like I got away. from the gi, so. from white belt to brown belt, I. competed IBJJF every tournament I could, would do my weight class, would do. absolute, get the reps. I love. jiu-jitsu, but I could probably around. 2011, 2012, I.

stopped putting the gi on, you know, it. was all in mixed martial arts training. Cuz I was getting before I would use. jiu-jitsu. to prepare for fights at a small school. I was at, but when I went to American. Top Team, I didn't need anymore cuz I. had such high-level guys on the mats at. all times. I was doing jiu-jitsu no gi. every day. But it's been so many years since I've. put on a gi and had like a jiu-jitsu. practice, man. And even the practices I. do now are all no gi. It's fun. I want. to get back in the gi. >> Gi's fun, but Eddie Bravo said it best. He goes, "If you were a professional. tennis player, would you practice for.

tennis by playing racquetball?". No, you wouldn't. You would play tennis. You would do the thing that you do. If. you want to get really good at MMA. jiu-jitsu, you need to do no no gi. Yeah. And he's right. I mean, gi definitely helps as well, but. you got to do no gi. What gi does is it. teaches you that you have to be. technical with your defense cuz you. can't muscle out of things. Yeah. But. the reality is like you should just be. technical with no gi. For sure. >> That's the thing. Like get out of the. thing. Like. I always say that the best jiu-jitsu's. to learn jiu-jitsu from a small guy.

Like all technique. >> Yeah, like like a Barao Yoshida, Royler. Gracie, Eddie Bravo. Like learn. jiu-jitsu from small people. >> Yeah. Cuz they're all technique. They. can't muscle out of things. You learn. Brazilian jiu-jitsu from some big giant. [ __ ] Like their their game is. going to be so different cuz they're so. strong. >> Right. But. like look at like the [ __ ] guys. Look. at the Makhachevs and Khabibs. Like that. that's the game of no gi. That's no gi.

It's like their their no gi game is. finally polished. Yeah. Finally, that's. it's not going to help them to wear a. gi. Right. Their their game wouldn't be. better. Like Khabib's game wouldn't have. been better. >> top. You never see these guys on their. back in guard. It's a diff- It's a. different It's a different speed. It's. jiu-jitsu, it's a different different. game. Yeah. >> What they do. Small small changes on the locks like we. were saying with the darce choke, grabbing your forearm. They do things a. little bit different, man. Even their. wrestling like is is different. It's not. collegiate fundamental wrestling that.

you would teach at a wrestling camp. It's just chain wrestling that they kind. of developed and have their own style, man. It's different. It really is. interesting. And then, you know, when. I've talked to Daniel, he's like, "Dude, I've seen Khabib put it on like. high-level. amateur wrestlers in the gym, put it on. them." And I believe it, too. I mean, he's just his discipline, when he was in. his prime, man, his discipline was just. above and beyond. His discipline, his. drive, his focus. And there's something.

to be said for those guys, too, because. they're super religious. So, there's no. partying, there's no drinking, there's. no chasing women, there's no [ __ ]. It's just drive, drive, drive, drive. Right. [snorts]. You know, in that collecting the legs. that he does with the triangle. underneath the legs when he's in mount. against the fence. So hard to get out of. >> Every- Everybody's doing it now. You. know that wrist ride, that handcuff he's. doing? Everybody's doing it. Yeah. Dude, he I mean, it's been really. interesting to watch like these dominant.

forces come along and like sort of remap. the landscape of the game, you know? And. we've seen it with them. >> Especially in such a high-stakes game. How do you do it that many times without. catching a heel to the face, without. catching a knee, you know, the guys he's fought, so many dangerous. guys, he's just. drowned them, you know? I know. Well, you know, Islam got caught in that one. fight and got knocked out. >> Adriano Martins. Mhm. Yeah. >> Right. But it just shows you he's a. human being. Yeah, it could happen to. anyone. >> happen anybody. And the Gleison Tibau.

fight with uh with Khabib, I feel like. Gleison won that fight. Oh man, I know a. lot of people always talk about that. I. feel like Gleison won that fight. Me and. Tibau have been training partners for so. we beat each other up so much. He's such. a fun guy, man. Gleison is such a good. dude. He's another guy like how the [ __ ]. are you 155? >> So much energy, dude. Never complains. about anything. He could have 50 lb. weight cut smiling in the sauna. Just. happy to be here. Just hope he just hope. both teams have fun. That's awesome. >> Yeah. That's awesome. >> happy-go-guy, man. Just I watched that. fight again cuz I was like am I talking.

out of school? Should I shut the [ __ ]. up? And I watched it again I go no. I think he won. >> Was it a split? I don't remember. I don't remember if it. was split. But he was stopping. takedowns. Yeah, and he was a tank. That guy was a tank. He was big. He was big and jacked. Dude. Probably 5'8" 5'7". Little sausage. Yeah, maybe. Maybe. Maybe. >> [laughter]. >> I don't know. >> [clears throat]. >> I don't know either.

>> know. Skillful. Super skillful. You know, solid striking, solid jiu-jitsu. >> Oh, great jiu-jitsu. Very good. Everywhere. Black [snorts] belt in jiu-jitsu, strong. as [ __ ] And just, you know. >> They knew from an early age cuz I think. his middle name is Herculano. I'm serious. >> That's hilarious. >> Yeah. Herculano. >> Herculano. Brazilians have some of the funnest. nicknames. >> Yeah, he might have eight names, you. know. I bet. >> Yeah. Yeah. Gleison Tibau Alves. Herculano. a few other things that I'm missing, I'm. sure.

And I'm so I'm serious though. Johnny. Gleison maybe Tibau. I don't know. He has a few names. That's. funny. I'm being serious. >> Really? He's got a bunch of names that. nobody knows? Mhm. That's hilarious, man. Well, at American Top Team, man, you probably have seen more elite talent. come through those doors. Shout out to. Dan Lambert. >> Well, Dan's a man. That [ __ ] put. the money in. Put the time in when there. was no money to be made. There was no. That guy was He just. >> It was a passion thing. And just think. it's just like what we said with the.

UFC, we need a rich guy to come along. and just throw the money at it. Like. that's what Dan did with American Top. Team. I remember when he was putting. together the the new American Top Team. facilities and he was showing me we're. going to have dorms, we're going to have. this. I'm like. I was like this dude is trying to go. broke. Like what are you doing? >> huge. And that area is crazy expensive. It's on a huge piece of land. >> to get Dan in here. I know I talked I. talked to him about it before, but he. deserves. he deserves the credit because that guy. >> And dude, honestly like. him building the gym and asking fighters. for 5% which is you know, crazy unheard.

of. Other gyms are taking crazy amounts, you know. He's giving you all these. amenities, giving you a place to stay. >> Yeah. At one point he had houses as. well, fighter houses that he bought and. he would put fighters up in the houses. for camps and stuff. Dude, I've heard of. him paying covering medical bills that. fighters didn't have money for, never. getting paid back. Yep. Like all all. time He's done so much stuff, man. He. Yeah. A good good for the sport. So. amazing And if he didn't put together. that super gym, who knows how many of.

these super gyms would have ever. evolved? Mhm. Because he kind of set the. blueprint for what what a gym could be. To this [snorts] day, that's still the. best gym in the world in terms of like. super gyms. >> so much knowledge, man. Right. So much. knowledge, so much equipment. It's so. big. It's so well made. And you never know who's going to be on. the mat. At any time you walk in and do. an MMA class, there's literally. thousands of mixed martial arts about. experience on the mat at any time. >> Was Robbie his first world champion? >> [sighs].

>> I was there for every camp when Robbie. came over. Uh I feel like it might have been like. there was like everybody was like Dan. Lambert deserves a world champion. Someone's got to be a world champion. >> Robbie might have been the first, dude. >> it might have been the first. >> I mean Mike Brown was WC. Yeah. >> There's been But UFC champion, I think. it was Robbie Lawler was number one. I. remember when he came over, man. Hey, how was Pantoja? Do you know how. his elbow? I don't know how the injury. is, but it has to be bad if they're. skipping him and going with this uh. I know. >> other title fight. I know.

I was there like 2 weeks ago. I went. down to help some buddies. I spent a. week there. I didn't see Pantoja at all, so It was so nasty, but it what was. really weird was like when Megan Olivi. was talking to us, they were saying that. he dislocated his shoulder. And I was like, "What what? Like, what. are you talking about? His elbow went. out." Like, I'm watching his elbow go. >> Yeah, it looked like the elbow hyper I. said, "No, but I think they the doctor. had misspoke." And I'm 99% sure that it. was actually the elbow that went out cuz. the the elbow clearly moves and it caves.

in and gives out. >> Right. And when that happens, ligaments, muscles, everything gets damaged, but I. just don't know the extent. >> Well, it's too bad because also Pantoja. is older and he's older and dominant in. flyweight, which is very hard to to do. >> It sucks at anytime to see a fight end. like that. >> Terrible. But especially a title fight. >> Especially a title fight, especially on. the streak he was on and defending the. belt. Like, it just [ __ ] man. >> Not just that, but. >> such a hard worker and such a quiet guy. and just a good dude, you know. He's a. [ __ ] savage, too. I think he's one of. the greatest of all time. The post-fight. Dana said something about the shoulder,

also. They popped his shoulder back in. I thought it was the elbow. Well, it was. the el- it says it's not the elbow, it. was his shoulder. It says his elbow as. well, though. It's got to be That's weird. >> posted that there was no ligament. damage, but I was trying to find uh. updated. So, even if there's no ligament damage, there could be cartilage damage and a. lot of other [ __ ]. >> Anytime something bends the way it's not. supposed to, soft tissue's damaged. His. weight and Joshua Van's weight all on. one arm posted and that arm gives out.

>> [snorts]. >> But damn, dude, when he fought that. Japanese cat, who was that guy? Ran through him. When Pantoja did? >> Yeah. Like, you you just see how good he is. When he fought Kai Kara-France, he ran. through him. I was like, "This dude is. on fire right now.". >> good, man. >> He's on fire. I think Pantoja is one of. the best of all time. And dude, not. loud, not flashy, quiet. He'll walk in. the gym, go be in practice, you won't. notice him. Just working, always just. working. Yeah, just [ __ ] focused,

just a soldier. I love to see that. though, man, cuz like a few years before. he was the. the world I mean the flyweight champion, he was driving Uber or Uber Eats, like. just trying to. making, you know, scrapping to to get. bills paid and you see a guy become. That's what makes fighting so special. though. Mhm. >> You know, like Teddy Atlas. has a speech about it, but it's like. where else can you be from any. discipline, any creed, anything, any. background and call yourself the world. the champion of the world, like. >> So powerful. On any given night you can.

go against the odds and be a Buster. Douglas or be a. be a Uber Eats driver and be the world. champion, you know, a couple years. later. Like that's just special, man. Fighting combat is special. It is. special and it is the end all of all. sports. Like if someone shoots a basket. and they make a three-pointer on you, you're like, "Okay, but I can still [ __ ]. you up." You know, no one says after you. [ __ ] them up, "Yeah, but I could score a. basket on you." No one cares. It's the end of all sports. The end of. all everything. The middle of the best.

middle school comeback. Somebody can. can't beat me though. Yeah. >> Can't beat me though. That was like they. come back for anything. Can't beat me. though. Like that's the top of the line. The best the top challenge. >> Exactly. >> The top challenge. >> Doesn't matter if you're better at. backgammon. Right. >> It doesn't doesn't matter. >> down me, but I'll beat you. Yeah, beating someone's ass is the That's the. end goal. That's what all sports aspire. to be. It's combat sports. So, do you have plans for stuff you want. to do outside of fighting now? Like now. that you're retired and now you're. settling in?

Be a good dad, be a good husband. That's. my That's my goals, always. But I have a. few other businesses, you know, I've had. for years. Um I got a documentary. >> Got a great hot sauce. Got a great hot. sauce. hot sauce is legit, dude. Well, this is Thank you, man. Thank you. Poirier's Louisiana Style Hot Sauce, it's not white label. We made this. We. developed it. >> It's very good. >> you. I'm proud of it. I'm proud of it. >> Yeah, when you sent it to me, I was. like, "Okay, I'll try it." I'm like, "Oh, shit." It's legit. Vinegar-based. Vinegar-based cayenne pepper. >> Yeah. Very good hot sauce.

>> Thank you, man. You can tell there's. celery in there. >> tell you put some work into that. >> Yeah, I didn't want it to There's so. many vinegar-based. hot sauces on the shelf, you know, you. get lost in that. And the shelf space is. so hard to get. I learned I'm learning. all this business stuff as I move. forward, you know. And now that I'm done fighting, I get to. really see where the hot sauce is, cuz. every fight, every promotion, I got to. talk about it, and sales always around. every fight were great, but now we're. going to level off and see what kind of. stride we have. Well, it's legit, man. It's I I recommend it highly. Thank you, man. Very good. Besides that, I have a.

few businesses in Lafayette, and I'm. really getting excited. I have a. documentary coming out this year. The same guys who made my first. documentary, Fightville, I don't know if. you've seen it. Came out in 2011. It was. on Netflix. Actually did a premiere here at South by. Southwest. Showtime picked it up, but. the same company that did that, Pepper. and Bones, is doing my retirement documentary. So, they did the whole last training camp. filmed. They are living in Germany, so. they would fly down, stay with in camp.

They did the whole fight week in New. Orleans. Then they came back down for. Thanksgiving, this recent Thanksgiving, and finished up the documentary. And. they have hundreds of hours of footage. unreleased from when I was 17, 18 years. old. Whoa. >> So, they got the They got the whole. journey. Whoa. Just randomly, this guy. was filming a. a war veteran who turned He was doing a. Him and his wife were documentary. makers, and they were following this guy who. just got back from the Middle East, and.

he happened to be a fighter. And I met. the guy at a fight show I fought on. He. was filming the other the for a war. film. Started talking, then he just. "Man, I'm I'm interested in you. Let me. start" started filming me and then dude, now I have all this hundreds of hours of. footage of me fighting amateur, small. shows, behind the scenes at my house, like as a kid. Oh, that's incredible. Yeah, so we're going to put it all into. this documentary. Dude, that's awesome. That's amazing. Well, listen, brother, whatever you do, you know, if you put. the same energy that you put into. becoming a great fighter, you'll be.

great at anything you do. That's just. the beautiful thing about doing the most. difficult thing is everything else is. definitely going to be easier. I want to. go back to the difficult thing though. I. don't want the easy path, man. >> hard to be as like like I tell my wife, I say this a lot. I'm [ __ ] be a. civilian. To go from. fight life every day for for so long to. be in a civilian it's like I'm. relearning who I am. Maybe a couple. boxing matches. Maybe the UFC let you out. I would love. to. Do you think the UFC let you out of. contract do some boxing matches? Nope, I.

don't think so. Unless the power's big. enough to where I don't think so. Uh, they should. >> not [ __ ] fighting Floyd Mayweather. The pot ain't going to be big enough. Right. You know? Cuz there was a Russian. company that wanted me and Nate to box. Uh, and the UFC said no? I didn't even. bring it to him. Ariel Helwani hit me up. and said "Hey, any interest in this?". I have interest, but I didn't want to. bring it to Hunter and Dana. I didn't. want to. ask them. You ever try? Yeah. You ever. try? See what happens after this name. >> to do the benefit. I tried to let's do. it in Zuffa boxing. Yeah, that's silly.

that they don't want to do any. crossovers, but I get it. >> Dude, I don't know if I want any more. head trauma either, Joe. Yeah. Yeah, I. want to raise my son and. That's true too. That's true too. >> 50-something fights. Right. That's true. too. Maybe just let it go. It'll never be gone. >> [laughter]. >> Well, keep it in the back of your head, just work out. >> be gone. Nah, I want to take I want to. take care of my head. >> GOING TO STOP. I'M NEVER GOING TO STOP. And I hope William's there tonight. >> Yeah, he'll be there tonight for sure. >> I didn't I didn't message him. Oh, he's. there. William Montgomery. Shout out to.

William. Dude, I didn't even catch that. you were saying that and when you were. jumping guillotines I never got to stop. I didn't realize that and then everybody. online told me, "Oh, he he's doing. William Montgomery." I was like, "OH MY GOD, HOW DID I MISS THAT?" I WAS. 100% doing William Montgomery. But also. I I give you the benefit of the doubt, dude. My delivery was kind of bad. It. wasn't the exact I was just so focused. when I'm doing post-fight interviews, I'm just always so focused in trying to. get everything out of the fighter that. they want to say. That's all all I'm.

thinking of is what can I ask him that. can help them better express themselves. after this big victory. >> Yeah. You know, so it's like I was the. underdog and Mike every time I went to. the corner he's like, "Stop jumping. guillotines. You're giving up takedowns. You're not going to get Cut it out. Don't do it." I'm like, Was that the Ben. 10 watch underneath? >> Never going to stop. Yeah. Yeah. That. was a great victory, too, man. That was. a good one. Yeah, with the streak he's. on this aging aging well. Aging well, man. Very well. Listen, brother, you're. an all-time great. It's an honor. So cool to have you here again. >> Thank you for having me. And uh.

congratulations on an amazing career. Thank you, man. And you like I said, you're going to kill it with that. whatever you do. Whatever you do in. life. Try to be calm. I'm going to try. to do the desk work and see where that. goes, man. Yes, and buy his hot sauce. It's legit. You heard. All right. Thanks, brother. Bye, everybody. >> [music]. [music].