JRE MMA Show #175 with Shakur Stevenson

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. All day. >> Well, uh, anyway, thanks for coming down. here, man. Appreciate it. And. congratulations on that standout. performance against Tafimino because. that was a that was a giant wakeup call. for the entirety of boxing. The the. level that you're on. Was it so high.

that you could be in there with a world. champion? A world champion and make him. a guy who beat. >> Yeah. >> I mean, legit guys, including. Lomachenko. >> Yeah. >> It was a big victory for him. And you. made him look like he had no business in. there. >> Honestly, it's just hard work, dedication, and um. God-given ability. God-given ability. I think you have all that plus. intelligence plus you start a real young.

and there's something about those dudes. who start real young. You grow up with. that. It's like in your central nervous. system as you're a young child. >> Yeah. >> I mean, would you start boxing like. five? >> I started boxing at five. But honestly, you could say the same for Tio, too, cuz. he kind of started at like seven. Mhm. >> We both was kind of similar in like. experience, but I just feel like with. me, the God-given ability of my. instincts always kick in. Like when we.

fought, I felt like. my brain just knew how to win. Like it. just everything was just like my. instincts kicked in and everything just. took over. Like I didn't even it it felt. like an out-of- body experience. Well, you're a very tactical guy. Like, you know, there's a thing. One one of. the things I love about watching you. fight is I love watching a guy who sets. traps and who avoids damage. And you are. one of the absolute very best ever at.

setting traps and avoid damage. You take. so few punches in your fights. Yeah. >> There was that one fight where you decid. recent fight where you decided to stand. with that dude. Who was that? Um. >> William Zapeda. >> That's right. Zapeda is a tough guy, man. But you fought that in a different. way. Did you do that on purpose? >> Uh, it was partly on purpose and partly. to get his respect. >> cuz I really ain't have a choice but to. get his respect because if I try to. outbox him and move around the ring, I. probably would have made the fight.

harder than it had to be. So, I knew. like I got to like make him respect me. early. And that's what I kind of like. started the fight hot. >> Why would it make it harder than it had. to be if you boxed him? Because. sometimes when you like a guy like if. you watch today's boxing judges give the. fight to mostly the guys that's coming. forward. So if I have went in there and. bagging up and moving around around the. ring while he was more active, it. probably would have looked as though.

he's winning the fight. >> So I had to make sure like the judges. know who's winning. So I kind of had to. take some in order to give some in that. fight. It was a very unusual fight for. you. I I I saw an interview with you. after that fight be like, I'm not. fighting like that again. [ __ ] that. >> Yeah, cuz I know like I see like the. modern day like the the old school. boxers and like the punishment that they. taking and you'll see them today. They. can't really talk as well as like.

like the Andre Wars and the Floyd. Mayweather who can talk good and. >> still articulate things to their. grandparents, to their grandchildren, to their. children. And. >> for me personally, it's like I want to. make sure that I'm. >> able to really speak. >> well to my kids and my grandkids and all. of that. So. >> taking punishment ain't for me. Right. >> Yeah, I support that 100% and I applaud. fighters like you for setting an example.

for young fighters coming up. Like. defense and tactics and understanding. the game is the most important thing. These guys that want to put on an. entertaining fight and just go in there. and slug it out. Like man, you are. giving up your brain for some people who. don't give a [ __ ] about you. >> About you. Oh my god. That's the God's. honest truth right there. I'll be seeing. a lot of fighters nowadays where they. stand there like punching bags and let. people hit on them and you'll see them. after the fight they marked up and.

few in a few years I don't think that. they're going to be able to speak as. well as like somebody like me. No, there's a bunch of examples of that. Obviously, we could all see it. But, you. know, it's a complicated sport and for. people that don't understand the sport. and don't appreciate the sport, they. just see two dudes punching each other, but they don't see subtle movements. And. you were doing this like half out jab. and then popping them with it. And you. could tell he had no idea it was coming.

It was so frustrating for Tafimo. was. watching. I was like I there was a bunch. of times where I was watching. I just. was yelling out by myself in my house. going woo. that check right hook. Oh, it was so. pretty, man. You you hit him with some. pretty shot. But it was it was just you. were just tuning him up. It was it was a. beautiful performance, man. Because it. was everything that I love in boxing. >> Yeah. skill, movement, understanding, ring IQ, knowing what's happening, and. and every time he would get fired up and.

try and take it to you, the most he. could do is touch your body. That's all. he was able to do. >> Uh, honestly, I for me personally, I feel like I'm. like the best fighter in boxing. And I. don't like mean this in no disrespectful. way cuz I got a lot of fighters in. boxing that I still watch to this day. that I like and I'm like, "Okay, they I. I'mma steal this. Um, Usyk. I love Usyk. I love Usyk. I love Bavar. I love them. um Eastern European styles.

>> But um for me, like I just feel like I'm. a fighter that could do it all. Like I. can do it all. Like whatever needs to be. done to get the job done, I can do that. So some nights you might see I might. outbox people. Then some might some. nights I might stand there and beat a. guy up and beat them at their own game. So, um I think for me I'm the most. complete fighter in boxing. >> Well, that mindset is what you need, especially in a sport where you've. dominated divisions. Yeah.

>> Right. So, if you've dominated divisions. and you're still looking to achieve a. higher level, >> you can't just look at the guys that are. your competitors. Yeah. Because at 135. it was so hard for you to get fights. At. 140 now, what are you going to do? You. just do that to Tapimo? >> It scared a lot of people. >> Yeah. Nobody wants to look stupid. I. mean, TFimo has had some good fights in. the past and he's lost in the past, but. he's never looked out of place. >> Yeah. >> And he looked out of place in that. fight. >> It's crazy though cuz when I seen him.

when he fought in New York on the um. Time Square card, I'm like, man, this. dude is nice. Like I'm sitting there, I'm like, whoa. Like I couldn't believe. like how good he was. But it kind of like just made me get up. Like I'm like, okay, I want to. >> Yeah. >> I want to see like what he can do with. me, >> right? Cuz the way he made Arnold. Barbosa look in New York was like he. just made him look like he's not on his. level. >> Well, he wasn't on his level, but then. Tafimo is not on your level. I mean, this is the beautiful thing about. competitive sports, especially boxing,

this one-on-one, which I think is the. purest form of competition, boxing and. MMA, >> is that you can show that as great as a. fighter is, like people could watch the. Tapimo fight and have no idea how good. he is. >> Yeah, for sure. And I would say go watch. the Barbosa fight. Go watch the. Lomachenko fight. Go watch many of his. fights. The guy was an excellent. fighter. Still is an excellent fighter. But there are levels. Yes. >> And the mindset that you have, I am the. best fighter in the world, period. Is.

what allows you to beat guys like that. That and the hard work. >> For sure. Um, like I said, I'm god-given. and I work super hard. Then I think the. biggest thing that I don't get credit. for is my discipline. Like I feel like. I'm very disciplined when it comes down. to. making the sacrifices and making the. life changes that I need to make in. order to be 100% on fight night. And I. feel like a lot of people don't give me.

that. I mean, they don't know. They. don't know. They just see it. You know, I'll be seeing like fans tweet and. they'll be like, "Oh, get off Twitter or. get off social media." But I'll be on. social media like right after I just. left the gym. I'm like what's the. problem? Like I'm just talking my talk. on social media right now. Like let me. live. Like. >> well people are always looking to. criticize but there's no way you can. have the kind of performances that. you're having. >> and not be locked in. >> And not be locked in. It's not possible. especially over 12 rounds. >> because I mean you know better than.

anybody alive that the kind of. discipline that it takes to be in the. kind of condition that you have to be in. >> to fight 12 hard rounds they put on a. virtuoso performance it's like. >> it's crazy though everybody like like. y'all love the performance cuz y'all got. to see it that day but like for me when. I'm in the gym it's still levels that I. feel like I haven't got to shown to the. world like I kind of only really shown. like. 70%.

of like what I really could do. And I. feel like with that performance, it was. just like, okay, this is this is like a. okay day in the gym. Like a okay day. It. ain't like my best day in the gym. Like. I have like days in the gym where I'm. like. I don't know how I just did that, but. I'm just like on point. So it was a good. day though. >> The thing is you're getting better. Yeah, for sure. >> You know, that's the thing. It's like. those days that you have in the gym and. those performance and the mindset that. you have like still not not saying I did.

it all, not seeing, okay, virtuoso. performance, still only 70% of what. you're capable of. >> That's what takes a guy from being a. very good fighter to being an all-time. great. >> Yeah. >> And it's a matter of maintaining that. over years and years and years. That is. so difficult for people. >> Yeah. >> And discipline is where that comes in. Yeah, >> enthusiasm and motivation is great in. the beginning. A lot of people have. enthusiasm and motivation in the. beginning, but it's.

>> when you've been a champ for five years, six years, you know, the the grind of it. all, the the 12week training camp away. from your family. People don't think. about that. >> Yeah. That's why I'm kind of glad that I. got the all of the things that happened. in my career where I had a little trials. and tribulations happened early. So when. I had my hand problem and I had like a. fight where I didn't perform as well as. I wanted to, it kind of got me prepared.

for like now. Now it's like I'm 100% on. top of my game. Like you're not going to. be able to like beat me. without me being like fully prepared. Like you gonna have to be a bad dude to. come in the ring and beat me. Like cuz I. I just don't see it happening with none. of these guys. Well, it's like how far. you've gone, right? Like you started off. at five and been intensely focused for. all these years. How old are you now? 20. 28. >> 28, which is.

>> prime. >> Yeah. >> That's it. Like 28 to like 34 is the. best year. >> But then again, you look at Terrence. >> I mean, he's at an age where a lot of. people say it's over and he put on the. performance of his career against. Canelo. >> I don't know how he do it. He's like a. different human being. Like. >> he's so smart. >> If I'm honest, he is like the reason I'm. not going to say he the reason why I am. who I am today, but he brought my game.

from like where it was at to like a very. high level. And he don't even realize. like he done that. like me just being in. the gym able to watch him and pick up on. like the little things that he doing, his bad days, his good days, his I'm. seeing everything and like when he come. out there on fight night, how prepared. and how ready, how confident, like. honestly. that dude kind of he put me into a whole. different world now to where I'm like,

"Oh, I can I can beat anybody. I get in. there with Terence Crawford and if I. could spar with him, I could How you. gonna hurt me? How you going? How How. you gonna beat me? Like. >> I'm in the ring with the best fighter in. the world. Like. >> one of the best of all time. You feel. me? >> Yeah. One of the best of all and one of. the most versatile of all time because. that's a guy who switches up left, right, and. >> there's nothing he can't do in a boxing. ring. >> Nothing. Nothing he can't do. And the. way he sets people up. I We were talking.

during the podcast I did with him. He. did this one sneaky thing where he was. throwing a straight left and then Canelo. would go to counter and he he would hook. it right off of the punch. Like on the. extension, Canelo would lean back to. counter. >> and catch him on the chin. You could see. it. It's like, "Oh my god, that's. pretty.". >> I've never seen him throw that punch. until Canelo, though. That's the crazy. part. being in the gym with another guy. who's an all-time great pound-for-pound. best. That is so valuable. And so many.

guys don't like that because they don't. want to be the second best or they don't. want to be in there with someone who's. as good as them. You know what I mean? Like iron sharpens iron. >> for sure. >> And for you to be a young guy who have a. guy Terrence is what 10 years older than. you. have a guy who's further down the. path and be able to see him and absorb. all that is better than any coach in the. world. >> Yeah. But it's been going on for years. Like it ain't like just a new thing.

People don't understand. Like. >> when I was 19. years old, I was around Terrence. >> Like I was at his house. >> playing him in 2K. We go to the gym, argue like he really. one of the most competitive persons I. ever met in my entire life. But. >> you have to be. >> I just never like for me I just know for. a fact my game has up because of that. dude. >> Yeah, it has to. It h it's also you're.

seeing this level that is so high in. boxing. Like you can compare it. You. could go back and look at Sugar Ray. Leonard. You can look at Pernell. Whitaker. You look at all these guys and. you can compare Terrence to the people. that the pundits sit down and say. alltime great. Terrence is. unquestionably an all time. >> Might even be better than them. >> He might be. >> All due respect to the legends. >> I agree with you. >> He is that good. >> He's that good. I feel like there's a. thing that was happening before the.

Canelo fight where a lot of people were. sort of dismissing his previous. opponents and saying he never beat. anybody and Canelo's another level. I. know a lot of people bet a lot of money. on Canelo. I was like, that's not a good. bet, >> man. It it seemed like that's the thing. in boxing to where is like um if they. don't know the opponents, if you're not. fighting somebody that's like a bigger. name, right, >> they makes it seem like the opponents is. not good. And that's like not true cuz. at the end of the day,

>> it's lowlevel opponents that don't get. the type of shine that the highlevel. opponents get, but they will beat the. highlevel opponent. And are they really high level opponents. at this point? Like I don't know. So, >> well, there's high there's high level. and then there's the elite of the elite, right? Yeah, for sure. There's always. that there's like some guys that if. they're in like I always said that about. Roy Jones during his prime like. everybody said Roy Jones didn't find. anybody. Not true. Roy Jones just made.

everybody look like they weren't anybody. for sure. >> cuz he was that he was so elite. >> Yeah. And that's kind of the problem. that Terrence was facing up until the. Canelo fight because when a guy goes up. two weight classes all the way up to 68, >> right? I mean, starts his career at 35. >> He's crazy. >> Last fight he fights at 68 and then puts. on a virtuoso performance. Virtual shut. out. Maybe Canelo won one round. Yeah. >> You know, I mean, then everybody has to.

shut the [ __ ] up. >> Yeah. But he showed everybody up because. you had to see like he used to say that. he wouldn't fight Canelo. Like he used. to be like, "Oh, Canelo's too big. I. wouldn't fight him." Then like it's like. out of nowhere he had a change in mind. and like he just went and attacked the. situation and it was a bad situation to. be in like you're going to go fight. somebody two weight classes higher, punch hard, >> bigger than you. >> and you're gonna go do that. So um for. me he just dude is amazing. He's amazing.

and another amazing example for young. fighters, you know, incredibly. disciplined, never out of shape and has. all his faculties, doesn't do anything, all his faculties intact, and he's. leaving the game with 100%. >> No undefeated record, no questions. asked, fought everybody. There's no one. lining up to fight him right now. He's. older and he's he did it all and he came. out unscathed. Bye-bye.

>> That's my biggest goal. >> It's a perfect goal. >> My biggest goal is to leave boxing. And. when I leave boxing, be good enough, well, not good enough, great enough financially to where I. don't ever have to get back in the. boxing ring. Like, I don't want to be. one of them fighters that's like need. boxing. Like, I hate that. Like, that's. my biggest pet peeve. Like, long as I'm. having fun with boxing, I want to be. doing it. But once it's not fun no more, I don't want to have to like, oh, we got.

this $20 million payday. I need it and I don't want to feel that. way. So. >> like Floyd, >> yeah, >> like the situation that Floyd's in right. now. This is crazy. I was having a. conversation with a friend of mine right. now and he's like, "Why is Floyd. fighting again?" I go, "Cuz he needs. money." He was like, "What? How? Floyd. made more money than anybody ever." It's. like, "Yeah, but he spent more money. than everybody ever.". >> Yeah. I try to stay out of that cuz I. don't know like the real situation with. Floyd cuz I'm not really in tune on it.

But um only thing with Floyd that's kind. of weird to me is like he love boxing so. much. Like you got to actually be around. him like he want to be in the gym. He. want to like So it'd be hard for me to. just believe like okay he's just dead. broke. Like I don't know. It's hard to. believe that. Well, if he's not dead. broke, >> he's definitely got issues. >> Yeah. >> Right. So, he's got a bunch of lawsuits.

where he owes money. >> You know, Logan Paul says he owes him. money. He owes money for some other. things. I don't know. I'm with you. I. don't know. But it's also it's like I. like a guy like Andre Ward. I like a guy. who goes out on top and you know, they. offered Andre a ton of money to come. back and fight Canelo after Canelo beat. Kovalev. >> Yeah. >> And he was like, you know what? I think. I serve boxing better as a commentator. and a spokesperson for the sport. I made. plenty of money. I'm undefeated. Two. division world champion, Olympic gold. medalist. Bye-bye. That's it. All.

faculties intact. No worries about his. brain health and everything like that. That's the way to go out. >> Andre Wood is another dude who uh helped. my career. >> Yeah, >> he helped my career a lot, too. He um. if I had to if I need a if I need. something, right? Let's say I need. something and I need to figure out how. to do it or what to do in a situation. with weight or whatever it is when it. come to boxing. If I'm calling Andre Ward, he gonna give.

you the best explanation. Like out of. all the guys like he explains things. from detail like he gonna detail it and. make me really understand what I got to. do. Like um Audrey Ward is somebody who. I looked up to since a kid. So he. another guy I just wasn't around him. enough in the gym as I was around Bud. >> But like Andre Ward was my favorite. fighter as a amateur. Like I think Yes. >> Well, most people don't know that Andre. Ward fought most of his career with one. arm.

>> Yeah. >> Which is crazy. Which is crazy. >> That one arm is his best arm. He's. left-handed for real. For real. So. >> But it's still crazy. It is. >> It's still crazy. Think about all the. guys he beat and he beat them with a. left hand. >> Yeah. and then finally got shoulder. surgery and then had a right hand and. still still kind of [ __ ] up. It's not. 100%. >> You know the misconception about his. career? I feel like when he beat. Kovalev, people don't realize how good. Kovalev was.

>> Oh, he was good in the day. >> Like he was insanely like. >> [ __ ]. >> power, boxing, length. He had. everything. A great jab, a great right. hand. >> Yeah. And for Andre Ward to go beat that. dude, >> that put the stamp on like his career. >> and got dropped. >> Yes. >> Got dropped and hurt and recovered and. still won. I mean, that was big. Yeah. Kovalev, people see Kovalev when he lost. to Canelo, >> he was already kind of washed. >> Yeah, he was already washed. He had been. drinking a lot.

>> There was a lot of, you know, a lot of. these fighters, they get to, like we. were saying, it's sustaining that will, that drive, that discipline, that focus. >> It's hard to do. But if you go back when. he had it, man, when he was in his prime. and he was a world champion, he was. [ __ ] everybody up, man. >> And he was scary. >> Yeah, he was a killer. >> Scary right hand. Woo. >> Yeah, >> he was a pissing. >> I'll go back and watch him too. He. another guy that I go back and watch. >> I like the way he keep his distance. He. keep his distance really good. He got. that Eastern European like them guys.

>> are really good boxers. Like when I. watch them, I'm like, "Okay." Like I. love watching Pval. >> Ball is amazing. >> I love it. >> He's got such an amazing style. I mean. him uh Usyk Lomachenko is kind of a a c. that's a fight I really wish would have. happened between you and him man. >> Was there ever talk about that? >> I messed myself up. I kind of did this. to myself so I understand um why a lot. of fighters wouldn't fight me. A lot of.

fighters wouldn't fight me because I. sparred them and. >> I messed myself up. Like I I when I was. trying to spar him at that time, I never. thought it would be a day of me and him. fighting. Like I didn't think that far. down the line. I really was just. thinking he was the best fighter in. boxing, number one pound-for-pound. I want to be able to go get in the ring. with him and see what like. >> right. >> how I can do. Like they told me they. wasn't even going to pay me for the. sparring. I'm like, "Okay, I'm cool. I. don't want to get paid. I I'm just here. to get in the ring with Lumachenko." But.

um years later, yeah, the fight, >> how did that go? >> How the sparring went? I think um See, I. don't. >> I don't diss nobody in sparring, so I. can't say. >> that. >> But you don't have to diss him. >> I'll keep it real with the sparring. >> Okay. >> I felt like I was out boxing him, but I. also knew. the level he was on was like his. conditioning. And that's when I it made. me like, okay, I got to be in like.

tip-top conditioning. Cuz the first day. we sparred, we did six rounds. I feel. like it was like, "Okay, I can outbox. him.". >> The next time we spar, he made me do 12. straight. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> So when he made me do 12 straight, >> for the first eight, I'm good. Like I'm. I'm good for eight. But like the last. four rounds, I want to say, he started. like picking up the pace and he ain't. get off on me, but he got the better of. the um last four rounds, I would say.

You feel like it was because of fatigue. a little bit? >> Yeah, it was for sure because of. fatigue, but it wasn't like the skills. Like skillfully, I felt like I was the. better fighter. Like I felt like my. range and my distance and my speed was. kind of better than his. But like from a. standpoint of being in shape and. throwing more punches, I felt like he. was kind of But he was getting ready for. his fight. I was getting ready for my. fight, too. So, >> Well, that's a very valuable learning. experience, right? >> Yeah. You mean better to learn it then.

than to learn it in a fight? >> Yeah. But. for real for real, it messed me up. because now it's like if I'm Lenenko and. I know he was what 126 pounds at the. time he was a kid. Now I see him all. grown up. He bigger, stronger, and I. seen what he was doing as a kid. I. probably be like, why would I test the. water with him? like I I wouldn't really. want to see that guy. That's not the guy.

I would want to see. So. >> that's funny. Um so you think that those. sparring matches were the reason why you. never got a fight with him? >> Yeah, for sure. >> I was surprised too uh fought me. Honestly, I was very surprised. >> Did you spar him as well? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But when we sparred, we only did three. rounds. But he made it seem like he kind. of got off on me. But honestly, I felt. like I was the better fighter. >> Well, Tio is a very headstrong guy. Yeah. >> You know, very, very tough, very.

confident guy. I mean, look, when he. beat Lomachenko, that was his standout. performance. He had that piston jab, man. >> Oh, he was sharp. >> He was sharp. >> I watched that fight a thousand times. before my fight. >> Well, I just think he knew that. Lomachenko was a ghost. He was so hard. to hit and just he came out explosive. He looked good in that fight. Lachenko. had a speed to like. get get his respect. >> Like I feel like Tio was kind of faster. and he knew like from a speed standpoint.

he was going to use it to his advantage. >> Also Tio was a lot bigger and he was. dangerous. Like he was throwing danger. with every punch. Even that jab had. danger behind it. >> It's crazy. I felt like he was strong. when I was fighting him. >> Strong as [ __ ] dude. >> Everybody think that he wasn't. But I'm. like, man, I ain't going to lie. It was. some shots like I would catch on the. glove and I'd be like, "I don't know. what you what you doing in your. training, bro, but I'm kind of solid.". >> But look at the size of that. [ __ ] I mean, he's jacked. He.

looks great. >> He's ripped. He's ripped. >> Yeah. He's just But, you know, he's not. done. And a fight like that with you is. a wakeup call for a guy like him, too. It's like, man, I got a tight. >> though. It's 50/50 cuz sometimes it can. play with your mental. M. >> so some some guys don't be the same. after getting embarrassed in front of. the world like that like. >> well he's come back before like the. Kambosus fight Kambosus dropped him. early and that was a that was a crazy. upset. >> Yeah but it was different cuz in this.

instance he got really embarrassed with. Kambosas. It was like it was a. >> 5050. He felt like he won the fight. He. left feeling that way. >> But getting dropped by Kambosus. Nobody. saw that coming. >> No I didn't see that coming either. I. ain't going to lie. For sure. >> I think it was like second round too, right? >> It was the first round, but Tio was. fighting dumb. I never seen Tio even. fight like that either. >> He went in there like just trying to. knock him out from the first round. >> I think after the Lomachenko fight, he. felt like this dude is not on my level. I'm the best fighter in the world. You.

know, that can [ __ ] with your head, too. Overconfidence can [ __ ] with your head. >> Yeah. I be trying to like with. >> I be trying to like stay away from that. like cuz I'm very like confident in. myself. So, I be scared of being too. confident. So, I'll be trying to like. make guys bigger in my brain like, "Oh, this guy is he's the truth." So, >> that's smart. >> Yeah. I got to like I I don't have no. choice cuz I'm very confident. >> We've all seen fighters that go in. unprepared and think that a fighter is.

not on their level and then that guy. puts a. >> knock them out. >> Buster Douglas and Mike Tyson. >> Perfect example. 42 to1 underdog. And it. was a perfect storm because Buster's. mama just died. >> Yes. Yes. >> And Buster was always one of those guys. that was known to be super talented in. the gym. Super talented. Just but not. dedicated. Just not driven. Just didn't. didn't make the most of his talent. But. for that one fight, he was like, "I'm. fighting Mike Tyson. I'm not scared of. him. My mom is dead. I'm I'm putting in.

the [ __ ] work." And he came out. throwing that jab with the hook off the. jab. POP WHAP. POP WHAP. AND IT WAS a. totally different Buster Douglas. Like. the best Buster Douglas we've ever seen. Ever. >> Yeah. >> That final combination when he knocked. Mike Tyson out. Dude, I didn't even. watch that fight live. A friend of mine. told me about it and I was like, "Are. you [ __ ] serious?" He told me at the. gas station. He's like, "Buster Douglas. knocked out Mike Tyson." I was like, "What the [ __ ] are you talking about?". And then I went home and watched it. And.

even while I knew that Buster Douglas. had won, I expected Mike Tyson to get up. and kill him. >> I was like, I can't believe this is. happening. >> Yeah, for sure. >> That's how much of an upset that was. >> Yeah, that was definitely one of the. biggest upset I think. Um. I I don't know cuz I wasn't during that. time, but from what I seen, it just. looked like Mike didn't expect him to be. that good. Like it was a shocker. >> I think it was a shocker for everybody. >> Yeah. >> Well, that's. >> But that's boxing. That's what can.

happen in the sport. I done seen that. happen plenty of times. And um honestly, it be some guys that I see in a gym that. I'm like, "Bro, if you do that stuff on. fight night, bro, you probably be. champion of the world." Like, it's a lot. of gym fighters who really got talent. But. >> yeah, >> when them bright lights come on, a lot. of fighters be kind of different. >> And what do you think that is? >> I think it's pressure. I think it's. nerves. I think is like it's a lot. It's.

a lot cuz I know I felt it like I felt. it for my fight with um Tio. I felt. pressure. I felt all of that kind of. stuff. But. I'm too tough. Like I know my mental. ain't gone. It's me or that person at. the end of the day. My life or your. life. And I'mma choose my life when it. come down to it. So, um I was good. But. I know it's a lot of fighters that I see. in the gym and I'm like, man, I don't. understand how you don't perform like. this on under the lights.

>> There's always guys like that. There's. always guys that are potential world. champions in the gym. And, you know, some people bank on them and some, you. know, you go, "This guy just needs a. mental coach, needs something to get him. over that hump." But it it's always. interesting to me because what is the. difference between a guy who could just. walk out there on fight day and perform. at 100% of his ability versus a guy who. gets dwarfed by the moment. The moment. comes the big pressure. Yeah. >> It's all mental. It's all in your head.

Like what you thinking and what you. believe in and the things that's going. on in your brain is what's going to come. out. Like I'm already telling myself, like I said, I tell myself it's either. me or him. So my life or your life and. one of us got to go. >> Yeah. >> One of us got to go. But what do you. think is going on in the I mean. everybody experiences pressure, everybody experiences nerves, but what. is it about fighters that are so.

talented that let that overcome them. versus fighters often times that maybe. not even as talented but they rise to. the occasion when those lights are on. when those lights are on. There are. fighters that fight better like. sometimes they look [ __ ] in the gym and. then when those bright lights are on. >> I had moments like that. I had moments. where I'm like, man, I I felt bad in the. gym. I don't know what I had this camp. This was a horrible camp. And then fight. night come and I'm like on point. >> Well, you know, that's what they said. about Ali when he fought George Foreman.

Yeah. >> They said he looked terrible in the gym. and everybody was nervous about him. But. >> yeah, >> he had a strategy. >> I think what like some fighters is fear. Like I think it's fear of like losing or. fear of the negative happening. And. >> I think with some fighters they allow. fear to control them. >> Yeah. as in some other fighters who if I. get fearful I'm going to attack my fears. like I'm not scared to even go and and. and give it a try. Whatever happened is. going to happen at the end of the day. It's all written already. So.

>> is this something that you built up over. time or is this something someone. imparted on you when you were young and. you embraced it? Like how did you learn. to have that champion mindset? I think. it's wild to say, but I think it's. really my little brothers and my little. sisters, but really my little brothers. I used to go to amateur tournaments and. if I lose and I got to come home to my. little brothers. Oh, they on me. They on.

me. And it's like, you got to come home. and they they remember the name of the. opponent that beat you and they will. throw it in your face. Oh, don't make me. go get Joseph Adorno. That's a That's a. real guy that beat me back in the day. Shout out to Joseph Adorno. But um I. used to have to hear that in the house. And now. I still be with them. So it's like I. know I got to go home to my little. brothers and see them after these. fights. And I I had that in the back of.

my head. I'm not I'm not coming home to. them. >> That's crazy. >> Without the win. Like I They got us. know. Like. >> did you tell your little brothers that. they do that for you? >> No. They I I don't even think I ever. said it to them. It just was so natural. cuz I used to always get in fights with. them and they used to always bring up a. opponent that beat me and I'm like now. they now if I beat everybody they can't. say it no more. >> That's hilarious. That's hilarious. Well, because different fighters. develop, you know, different ways of.

rising to the occasion, different ways. of maintaining a championship's mindset. And some of them they learn it from. their coach. you know, custom motto. famously trained Tyson and even. hypnotized him and told him that you. don't exist, only the task exists. And. he had Mike Tyson just like a [ __ ]. machine when he would get into that. ring. >> I think um shout out to my grandfather. too cuz my grandfather is my coach and. like his energy during fight week like. it they don't even realize like it.

wasn't even just the coaching that he. was doing. It's like the energy that he. kind of gave off to me. It reminded me. of me when like I was a kid and me and. him would go to amateur tournaments and. like he just so like amped up and like. ready and like it kind of brought on to. me and it kind of got me like amped up. as him like okay I got to I got I got to. stand on business for my grandfather. I. got to I don't got no choice. >> Oh wow. >> But he's he's definitely a great coach.

>> So family is a big thing for you. >> Yeah, family is everything for me. Like. I enjoy spending time with my family. Like I'm not like a lot of these boxers. Like with all due respect to them, they. like the fame, the. all that kind of stuff. The cars, the. I'm more so like I get a big check, I. want to go on vacate with my family or. go chill with my family. And I don't. like doing stuff. Like I enjoy spending.

time with my daughter. >> That's great. >> Like I'm different. And I'm not like. them guys. Like. >> that's so smart. It's so smart because. all that other [ __ ] just drains your. bank account, distracts you from your. goals, gets in the way of things. >> It's like when I was a kid, I used to. want the fame. I used to be like, "Oh, I. want to be famous. I want everybody to. know me." But it's like once you get it, it's like, "Ah, I don't like this.

I don't like this." It's like you go. places, people pulling their phones out. and like. >> it's weird. >> They trying to record you. Like, bro, why you I'm just a regular person. Like, that's how I feel. Like, everybody. bleeds. >> We all the same. We all human. Like, so. I kind of move with that kind of thought. process. And I feel like a lot of people. don't move with that. Like, especially. people in my position. >> Yeah. You can get inflated. Your your. head can get screwy. It's like you got. to balance two things at the same time.

One, you are the elite of the elite. You. are a world champion and one of the. pound-for-pound best to ever do it. And. then on top of that, you're just a human. being. >> Yes. >> And we're all just human beings. >> But what we like, what people love about. watching championship caliber fighters. and championship performances in in any. sport is watching just a regular human. do something extraordinary. Yes. >> And that gives us inspiration. Like when. I watch a great fight, I feel better for. the rest of the day. >> Yeah. Like when I go to bed, I feel.

great. Like I watched that fight. I went. to bed. I was like, "Woo!". >> I felt great. I text Josh right after. right right after it was like right. after it was happening. And uh that's. how we got in touch. Josh Duben, shout. out to Josh. >> Shout out to Josh. >> But I remember I texted him. I'm like, "Dude, that was extraordinary." And then. next thing you know, we're on the phone. >> Definitely was a great um great night. great night of boxing. I enjoyed it. Um. I'm just glad to be here. Like all glory. to God. I'm glad to be here. Um I've.

been here. Like I've been here. I've. been telling people like I'm the best. I'm better than these guys. And. >> you have but you needed that breakout. You needed that breakout performance. And the problem is everybody knew you. were so good. It was hard to get someone. to sign up for that breakout performance. because for a breakout performance, you. need another dude who's had breakout. performances that everybody respects and. knows. >> like Tia Feimo. >> Yeah. That's what I that that was my. main reason in fighting. I'm telling. you, I watched him in Time Square. I. looked, I said, "We fighting him.".

>> Yeah, >> we fighting him. I want to fight him. Um, he he looked really good. He looked. really good. >> That Times Square card was weird. >> He was the best fighter on the card. >> 100%. >> No question. >> It looked like everybody was playing it. safe on that card. >> Yeah, it did. It did. >> Like Devin Haney, the Devon Haney fight. was odd. >> I learned what I learned from that card. I felt like I felt like them fighters. didn't have enough adrenaline pumping. Like I feel like. Ryan I know when he got in the ring his.

adrenaline couldn't been like too high. because it was like sparring. Like it. was like not a lot of people there. It. wasn't like that much pressure. You. could hear everything somebody is. saying. I know Ryan heard me all night. Like he had to hear me. I was cheering. him on like telling him like, "Man, throw the hook. Throw the hook. Throw. the hook." But. >> that was when he fought Roelly, right? Yeah. >> Yeah. That was a wakeup call, too. Like. that was another fight where people did. not expect Roelly to beat Ryan. >> Yeah, I'd be thrown off. I I didn't.

expect it either. That was one one of. the fights where I kind of like vouched. for Ryan. I'm like, man, he got skills. He's a skillful fighter. Then he got in. there. I don't know what he was doing. Like I didn't understand what was. happening. You know, it's one of them. things where he has the fight with. Devin, he beats Devin, gets popped, you. know, for whatever he was on Austine, and then there's like he's got a long. time off. There's a lot of people mad at. him. There's a lot of people, you know,

which is a such an unfortunate thing if. you think about his performance against. Devin because that was incredible. >> Yeah. But the problem is. he got caught. >> He got caught. >> Yeah. >> So like I don't know. Like for me. personally if you got caught is like I. can't really me I can't give you the. credit for that. >> Right. >> I don't I don't give him credit for that. day with that night with Deon. >> Yeah. But steroids don't help you land. punches.

>> I give. >> they help you recover in training. They. help you train a little harder. They. might give you a little bit more power. But that left hook was on point. >> Yeah. But that little bit of more power. probably wasn't enough to hurt Deon. Cuz. if you really watch the fight and pay. attention to the fight and people not. might not agree with me on this, but I. feel like Devin was winning the moments. that was quiet. Mhm. >> Like when people's not really ah Deon is. winning most of the like boxing match.

other but the moments where Ryan was so. loud and like everybody got to see him. get hurt and knocked down. >> to where like I just feel like Devin if. he didn't get dropped by them punches he. could have won that fight. >> But he did get dropped. That's the. problem. And also. >> but what if the Aster ring was helping. his power? Yeah. I mean, who was his. last fight against? Delgato. Who was his. his last opponent? >> Who? >> Uh Ryan. Who's the guy who just.

>> Mario Barios? >> Barios. That's right. >> Barios. >> Barios is uh a guy that was like tailor. made. >> for a guy like Ryan. Like he's a tough. dude. He He's very durable. Takes good. shot, but he's not that fast. >> And Ryan was super fast in that fight. >> He looked real good. He looked real. good. real good in that fight. >> And it wasn't just like cuz people think. when I'm when I'm saying like, "Oh, well, you don't know whether he's.

cheating or not." I'm not saying that in. the aspect of his boxing skills. Like, he clearly got boxing skills. Like, you. can clearly see Ryan know how to move. his feet. He know how to keep his. distance, use his long length. >> Um, he can clearly box. I've been saying. this for years. So, >> yeah, he boxes very well. And also, he. showed that he has a right hand, too. Yeah, that was surprising. >> Yeah. >> And he used it like the whole night. Like he just kept throwing it. So that. was very surprising. >> But I mean, of course, if you want to be.

a complete fighter, he had to develop a. right hand and start using it more. because that left hook is just world. class. >> Yeah. And he was not only like throwing. it straight, he was throwing it around. the guard. >> That was kind of like Yeah, it was nice. >> It was a beautiful performance for him. Has there been any talk about you two. matching up? >> Uh yeah, it has. But um. >> like I said, everything got to make. sense. Like people don't understand that. I walk around in my 40s. So if I'm. walking around in my 40s, I don't think.

like me going to 147 like when I fight. at 147, I think that will be my last. weight class like in my career. Like I. don't see myself going past 147 ever. But I'm 28 right now. I got a long way. to go. So um I don't plan on moving to. 47 no time soon. So, if the fight. happens at whatever weight class that I. say, then I'm cool with it. >> Can he make 40 again? >> He said he could. He the one who came. out and said like, "Let's fight at 140.".

He said that. So, if he said that, it's. like, "Okay, you can make the the weight. then. Let's do it.". >> What weight was the Javvante fight? Was. that 140? >> That fight was at 136. >> That's right. And then he gave him a re. rehydration clause, too. >> Yeah. 10 pounds. Yep. >> Very smart. Very smart. Very smart, right? >> I mean, yeah, smart. >> It was in that situation, but um. >> I mean, I just felt like with the. rehydration clause at that time, when.

you already bringing somebody down to. like a weight class that they haven't. fought in years, it's like you could. have not put the rehydration clause like. it wasn't necessary at that point in. time. >> I think it was necessary. I think it. helped a lot. >> It did. >> It helped a lot. if you if you can only. rehydrate 10 pounds and you know he's. way bigger than that. Ryan's a big guy. >> He looked weak on fight night. Like he. looked extremely weak. >> But I guess those dollars that that. paycheck was just too tempting.

>> Understood that move. I never understood. it. Cuz if I'm Ryan Garcia and I got a. big name in the sport and all of that. kind of stuff, why would I accept. everything into somebody else's favor? >> I think because that's the only way he. could get the fight. You know, >> well, >> well, this is the same thing when Canelo. fought Floyd, right? Floyd made him go. down to 152, >> remember? >> But it was no rehydration clause. >> Um, was it? >> Nope, it wasn't. >> Even if there's not a rehydration.

clause, nobody. >> Well, that's good. But if you make a guy. get down to 152, even if you give him a. rehydration clause, like that's going to. drain something out of your tank. >> But is it right? Cuz my question is, wasn't they fighting at 154? Wasn't. Canelo fighting at 154? >> Normally. Yeah. So, he only struggle. >> But that, you know, that last, you're. not a big weight cutter, but if you. were, that last two pounds is death. >> Oh, for sure. >> When you're already drained out, cuz he. was a big guy for 154. And to drain out.

and get all the way down to 152, that. had to be hard. He didn't look the same. on fight day. >> You think so? >> Well, I think Floyd was just a virtuoso. that night. I mean, Floyd. >> Floyd looked so good that night. that. night. I don't think if he was 154, 160, I don't think he was beating Floyd. >> I think you're probably right. But I. also think Floyd was smart to get him to. down to 152. >> For sure. The business. >> Yeah. It's like every angle you can get, every advantage you can get is a good.

one. I do agree with you about the. rehydration clause. Like get out of here. with that. >> But we got to understand too, right? Cuz. I get. Floyd in that instincts. If a guy is. gonna blow up to let's say what we we'll. just do me and Ryan Garcia for example, >> okay, >> I'mma blow up like 148. He's going to blow up 168 to 170. Now. it's like you in a ring with somebody.

that is like 20 pounds bigger than you. And Floyd still allowed Canelo to get. big because he got big at the getting. down to 152. So, it's like I kind of. feel it in a way like I understand it. Now, the rehydration clause is kind of. crazy, but I will only do a rehydration. clause for fighters if I go up to 147. pounds. >> cuz I'm not a 147 pounder. So, why would. I fight. >> at their weight class where they're. comfortable and just make it easy for. them? Like, I don't.

>> Well, the thing about a fighter like you. is it's just difficult to find big. names. I mean, if Jervante fights again, that's a that's a big fight if you but. that would probably be at 135, which you. could probably still make easy, right? >> Easy. >> Yeah, no problem. >> So, you have fights at 135, one fight. and fights at 140, but it's just going. to be hard to get someone to step up. That is going to be that big. pay-per-view selling fight. >> Yeah, >> that's the problem. >> That is the problem.

>> You're too good. That's the problem. You're too good. Somebody told me that. before I went pro before they was like, "You going to have a hard time in the. pros." I'm telling you. >> Yeah. >> But I understand it now. >> Do you remember your first pro fight? You remember what it felt like? >> It felt like a whole new experience. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> How so? >> I've been When I was in the amateurs, guys wasn't as like dirty as the. professionals. Like you don't get. introduced into dirty boxing until you.

turn professional. >> Didn't you get headbutted in your first. fight? >> He headbutted me and that's what kind. >> on purpose, right? Not an accidental. >> headbutt. That's what kind of make me. say, "Okay, I understand. This is a. whole different. atmosphere. It's not the same um amateur. and the pros." And a lot of guys from. the amateurs don't adjust to the pros as. well as I did. So, >> well, it's all about styles, right? Like. there's some guys who have styles that.

are just much better for point fighting. and. >> Yeah, it's actually um you got to. develop a lot of things like um punch. placement. Like punching hard is really. a real thing in the pros. Like you got. to have something to make somebody. respect you. That's why when I hear. people say like, "I got pillow hands.". I'm like, "Y'all clearly must not be. watching." Who's saying that? >> Uh, it' be a lot of people. They say I. got pillow hands. >> No, you just fight smart. >> Yeah, but I don't understand it because.

it's like if I had pillow hands, right? >> Why guys don't just go in there and just. knock me out like if I'm fighting. somebody with pillow hands, I'm just. going to put my. >> my shield up and just swing for the. fences cuz they can't hurt me. Like, >> right. >> I don't understand why nobody won't do. that if I got pillow hands. >> You don't have pillow hands. It's. nonsense talk. What you have is a boxing. intelligence where you know when to hit. full blast and when to just touch them. up and crack them a little bit. Yeah.

>> And the accumulation of blows, the. frustration, the the the mental. confusion that a fighter gets when they. can't hit you and you can hit them and. then you start ramping it up and then. you start tuning them up. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it's people that the people that. are saying that just don't understand. what you're doing. >> Yeah, for sure. >> What you're doing is just perfect. you're fighting intelligent. >> and that's what I love. I love watching. a guy just outbox the [ __ ] out of. somebody. I love it. >> Like I said that that like you were.

doing this like half speed jab and then. from right there and you could tell Tio. was like Jesus Christ. You could tell he. was confused. It was so fast. >> Too fast. >> It was so fast. But that accumulation of. blows over time and his corner, it was. crazy. Did you listen to the fight? Like. did you go back and watch it? went back. and watched it. >> His corner is like, "You got to hit. him." Like what? >> It's so crazy though cuz like what I see. with his corner is like he been doing. this like his dad been getting in the.

ring and giving him type of. instructions. >> But Tio has been always so good to where. >> the instructions he giving him really. does not matter cuz he's. >> in control. He's winning these fights. He's doing what he's supposed to do. But. that night, he did need he. >> needed a real coach. >> He needed something better than that. >> Yeah. Well, not that his dad's not a. real coach, but he needed some tactical. advice. He needed some instruction on. what this guy's doing to you, and you. got to switch it up entirely. You got to.

do something that confuses. >> His dad is used to like something. different. >> That's why he went in there and said. like, >> "Where's your power, bro?". He's used to Tio's power showing up and. the amazing things that Tio does in the. boxing ring. He's used to that. But. >> whenever you going against somebody. who's on a different level also, you got. to be well prepared within like a game. plan. >> Yeah. >> All that kind of stuff. And I didn't see. no game plan.

>> Did you Did you know anybody that was in. his camp or ask anybody after the fight? Like what was his game plan? >> What did he think was going to be. different? No, I didn't actually. I just. >> I'd be interested to know that. >> Yeah, I do too. But um I did run into. him after the fight. I ran into Tio in. the um back. So, >> was it cool? >> Yeah, it was cool. It was actually a. good conversation. I felt bad that he was by himself. His. manager kind of cleaned it up. But. during the moment that I seen him in the. back, he was by himself. So,

>> I didn't like that, >> man. >> I didn't like that. >> No, that's a bummer. >> Yeah. But I mean, they said they was. with him all night, so um, respect to. them. >> So maybe he just you just caught him in. a moment when he was alone. >> Bad moment. Y. >> Yeah. That's the last thing you want to. see is a dude who gets abandoned after a. loss. Like, oh my god. And then you got. to go back to camp with those [ __ ]. >> I don't even like how the sport is kind. of treating him now. Like everybody acts. like he's just this terrible fighter, but. >> Oh, that's crazy. >> I don't understand it when you got to.

give him respect. Like this dude. actually stepped up and fought a guy. that nobody else wants to fight. So, >> exactly. >> He did it. He got in the ring and he. laid it on the line. It didn't go his. way, but he did. He He tried. >> The thing is, I don't know if that guy's. ever going to separate from his father. You know, I don't know if that guy ever. going to bring in another worldass. trainer that maybe would be able to. recognize some things that he's doing. that he can prove upon. >> You know what's so crazy? During the. fight, he had a coach in his corner, and. I know the coach. He's from Florida. I.

want to say his coach was telling him. some good advice. I don't think he heard him or was. listening to him, but he was telling him. some good advice. >> Really? >> Yeah. I don't I I don't want to say what. the advice is because I got future. opponents. I got to make sure. >> Well, someone could go back and listen. >> Yeah. I can't tell what the advice was, but Right. >> He was giving him some good advice. >> Interesting. Yeah. It's hard those. fatherson teams. There's always there's. a lot of conflict with those.

>> Yeah, because I done watched it over the. years. I feel like dads like stay on top. of they fighter and they like. >> they they they they make it. >> they make it less fun. And I feel like. um that's why I think my granddad is one. of the best coaches cuz he allowed me to. love the sport of boxing myself. like um. when I had my football games and my pop. won the games, he came to my game, watched them cheer, supported me. But.

soon as I lost, I'm on the field crying. I'm like, "Oh." He comes up to me, he. say, "You know, in boxing, you only could lose because of. yourself.". And I'm looking I'm like what he mean by. I'm like oh that is true because like. you're the one in a boxing ring doing. the boxing then um when I lost that. football game he was basically trying to.

say it was my coach fault. So like he just allowed me to choose. boxing though. Like he he always. supported me when I did other things, but he kind of like he ain't just stay. on top of me like hound me with it. Like. >> Right. >> He just took me to the gym and. >> Well, you got to let a young man become. his own man. >> Yeah. He allowed me to choose it. And I. think um fathers in the sport don't. allow their sons to choose it too. Like. they're choosing it for them, >> right? And a lot of them are overbearing.

in the corner. It becomes a problem. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And they kind of be. >> coaches should listen to what I'm about. to say. Father coaches, >> there has to be a difference between. a father and a coach. So when you're. coaching your son, you have to be a. coach in the boxing ring instead of the. father. Because when you're the father, they're gonna reciprocate things wrong. And I feel like um with coaches when you.

coaching, they can hear you a lot better. >> Mhm. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, there's also the. relationship of the father and the son. where the father wants a son to listen. to him. Listen to me. I'm your father. You go, you're going to do this. You're. like, "Fuck the [ __ ] off of me.". >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] off me, dad. >> And you you doing more harm to your son. than actually doing good for him. So, >> well, especially not giving him. technical advice. Like, that is where he. needed real technical advice. >> Cuz there was a lot of [ __ ] you were.

doing that he just did not have an. answer for. >> He didn't understand. >> Yeah. >> He didn't understand. He didn't clean up. his bad habits. And. >> that's the thing with these fighters. A. lot of them got bad habits and things. that they do. And I'm going to expose. it. Well, I mean, the environment that you. came up in and having a guy like. Terrence and having other elite fighters. that you train with all the time, that's. so important. It's so invaluable. >> cuz all that [ __ ] gets exposed in the. gym. And. >> it does. That's where you work on it at. >> Yeah. >> That's where you work on it. If you.

ain't work on it in the gym on fight. night, it's going to be exposed. >> There's no if ends or buts about it. >> Yeah. >> How important do you think um an amateur. career is? Like do you think a guy like. Lomachenko maybe would have been an even. better boxer if he didn't have so many. amateur fights and went into the pros at. an earlier age? >> I think a amateur career is important. because you got to had an experience, but I done seen different to where like.

guys will develop a lot more in the gym. Like I done seen guys stay in a gym, not. go to tournaments, and they'll get. better and better and then out of. nowhere they'll go to one tournament and. then you'll be like, "Who the [ __ ] is. this guy, >> right? >> Where did he come from? How did he get. so good?" And um I think like developing. in the gym is like the biggest thing. Like who you sparring, who you training. with, all of that stuff really matters. the most. The amateur experience is.

cool. like, oh, Lmanenko, but if. Lumachenko had different things around. him in a gym, I feel like he probably. would have been a better fighter. >> Well, already good. >> Well, with Lomachenko, it's so crazy. because he really should have been. fighting at 126. >> I mean, he really was never a 140 pound. fighter. >> Yes. >> He's a small guy. >> Yeah. I don't understand that. I don't I. didn't I didn't understand that because. I think it kind of tarnish his career in. a way to where like the way people look. at him and people don't look at him the. same as they should because he was. really really good.

>> but. he was at a weight class that he really. wasn't supposed to be at. So of course. you're going to have like a harder time. with them bigger guys, >> right? Like Tio. >> Yeah, like Tio. >> Yeah, that was a perfect example. Tio. was huge in that fight. Yeah, >> he looks so much bigger than Lomachenko. and just so dangerous that it like. [ __ ] Lachenko's strategy up. >> cuz you know you got missiles coming at. you from a giant dude. I mean Tio's. stacked. >> Yeah. >> And so you got to think like for those. guys I guess it's just about chasing the.

multiple world titles and the the bigger. money at the higher weight classes. >> Yeah, that's what um with Lumachenko. though, he act like he wasn't really. like super money hungry. So I never. really understood. Seemed like he's. maybe Yeah, you're right about the he. was chasing undisputed. >> Yeah, undisputed in world titles. I feel. I feel like he got robbed in the Deon. Haney fight though. >> Do you think that. >> to this day? Yeah, I do think I I scored. the fight for Lumachenko. >> Yeah, I did too. I watched it three.

times in a row cuz I was like, what am I. getting wrong here? Am I getting this. wrong before I started talking about it? >> Yeah. >> And I was like, no, no, Lachchenko. should have won. >> Yeah, I thought Lachchenko won. >> That was one of those where I was like, oo. And I think that fight [ __ ] with. Devin Haney's head a little bit like. because that makes you feel like [ __ ]. when you win a fight and everybody. thinks that you lost the fight and you. got like then you have to carry that. around with you everywhere. Every like. Loacho beat you like no he didn't. >> Yeah, it's a mental battle. Yeah, mental. battle. >> and then you got to get it back.

>> I think in that fight he really wasn't. even fighting the best version of Devin. because Devin was fighting at a weight. class he really shouldn't have been at. >> What was that fight at? Was that 35? Yeah. You think Devin should have been. at 140. >> at that time? Yeah. He should have been. at 140. He's too big for 35. >> Yeah. It's um it's interesting, man, that. balance of we're all [ __ ] up in MMA. because MMA there's there's too few. weight classes. >> Yeah. >> And so there's giant gaps, like huge.

gaps like at 185 to 205, you know, 155. to 170 those there's no weight classes. in between. I mean, that's nuts. >> Yeah, that's insane. >> I agree. That mean it's guys that's like. little fighting bigger guys cuz it ain't. enough weight classes for them to be in. So that sounds crazy. >> It's stupid. And it's the one major. complaint that I've had with the UFC for. a decade. I was like, "We need way more. weight classes.". >> Yeah. >> And they they're like, "No, we're going. to keep it pure. These are the champs.

Only eight champs." Like that's crazy. >> I need to start watching the UFC. >> Oh, it's fun. There's one this weekend. in Vegas if you're around. >> I'm gonna watch some of it. It's a good. one. >> I'm gonna watch it because I'm I'm like. like lost. Like I'm not really in tune. with like a lot of the UFC guys. And the. UFC people be kind of mad at me when I I. say boxing is better, but it's my sport. So. >> of course you're going to think it's. better. It's what your life is based. around. For sure. >> Of course. And if you talk to Max. Holloway, he's gonna say MMA is better.

>> Exactly. And they got good explanations. Like I understand what they saying. like. you could do. >> It's more like skills you got to learn. in MMA. But. >> for me, I just feel like boxing like the. skill level and the talent for me I like. better. >> Well, there is no question the skill. level and the talent when it comes to. punching is way better in boxing. You. see some sloppy [ __ ] that people do in. MMA with boxing, but you also have to. think they're thinking about takedowns. They're thinking about getting kicked.

They're thinking about their calves. getting kicked out from under them, their legs getting kicked, their body. getting kicked, >> messing up their punching, huh? >> Everything. Knees, elbows, and then. there's stuff that you do in boxing that. you can't do in MMA because like your. legs exposed. Yeah. >> You know, like there's certain positions. that you you would throw punches in that. a guy would just calf kick you. >> and you get hit with one of those, you're like, "Oh shit." And all a sudden. your calf is numb and you're not moving. good. Your ankle doesn't work. >> Yeah. >> It's terrible. But that's the beauty of.

that sport is that it's so diverse. But. the beauty of boxing is that it's so. concentrated on hand techniques. Yeah. That the boxing techniques in in boxing. are far superior than what you're going. to see in MMA. >> You see a few guys in MMA that could. make it as pro boxers, >> but you don't see your level or, you. know, or. >> they can't be elite level basically. Yeah. >> There's no way you can. >> Impossible. >> No. >> You ain't been doing it for long enough. Just like you don't see these uh elite.

MMA fighters that could compete in. jiu-jitsu tournaments. Yeah. And win. world championships. It's very very. rare. They used to The only way that. happens is if they were a world champion. in jiu-jitsu before they got into MMA. and they still have those skills at a. very very high level, then some of those. guys can kind of compete in world class. levels. But. >> what you what would you say is like the. best skill in like the MMA? >> Wrestling. >> Wrestling. I knew it. I already knew it. before I asked. >> because wrestlers can take everybody. down.

>> and if you get taken down you're [ __ ]. >> I want to learn how to wrestle. >> It's a great Well, Terrence to show you. how. Terrence Terrence is like one of. the only boxers that are like if that. guy fought in MMA he could do very well. >> He would he would do very well. >> I watched him um wrestle a actual like. USA team wrestler and he was kind of a. >> he could wrestle. >> Yeah, he was kind of he was good. He was. good. He wasn't um getting. >> He's not lost. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. He knows what he's doing. And. look, his son just won a state title. >> Yeah, for sure. He's He's the truth.

>> Yeah. >> I want to learn how to wrestle though. >> It's a good thing to know. It's a good. thing cuz it's a humbling thing. >> I feel like they the strongest people. >> Oh, yeah. >> Like I feel like when it come to. strength, like real strength. >> Yeah. >> Their bodies are like stronger than. most. >> Oh, it's a different thing. When they. get a hold of you, you feel like a. child. >> You just get ragd doll. Like this is. embarrassing. >> You know, that's the most important. skill I feel. But every fight starts. standing up, you know. Every round. starts standing up. You know, at the. beginning of the round, you're standing.

up again. So, that guy's got to take you. down again. And in that. >> that transition catch somebody. >> Yeah, that's when you can catch someone. >> Yeah, I figure that. >> Look, there's elite fighters that aren't. great wrestlers in MMA, like Alex. Pereira, who's a two division world. champion, but he's just a destructive. kickboxer. Yeah, >> he's such a terrifying kickboxer. >> What is uh Jon Jones? Jon Jones a. wrestler. >> He a wrestler. >> Well, he's an everything fighter. He. could do everything forever, but he. started out his career as a wrestler.

>> I like him. >> Oh, he's the best ever. >> Yeah, >> the best ever. He's the best ever cuz. he's the smartest of all of them. I. mean, he's That guy studies. >> That's why I like him. That's exactly. why I like him. I seen a video of him. saying like he watches everything like. from top to bottom. He going to watch. your interviews. He going to watch. >> Oh yeah. every single thing until he. find a weakness. And yeah, that's why I. like him. >> Yeah. He gets inside their head. He. knows every tendency they do. He sets. traps. >> He does everything. It was funny. Daniel.

Cormier, who I love to death, who's a. great friend of mine when he fought Jon. Jones. They were talking before the. fight about tendencies. And Daniel's. like, "Oh, I know what you think I'm. going to do. You think I'm going to lean. towards the right and you're going to. kick me in the head?" And John did. exactly that in the fight. It was so. crazy when he landed it. Look, I love. both of those guys, but Dan Daniel's a. close friend. And so we landed that head. kick. I was like, "No, >> you know, and I'm doing commentary, so I. I've got to like, >> yeah, >> I've got to be balanced." And, you know,

and I do love both of those guys, but I. was like, damn, he did exactly what he. said he was going to do. >> You said it on the commentary. >> No, I didn't say it on the commentary. I. don't want to call it out there, but in. in the prefight, they were talking [ __ ]. to each other. And one of the things. like, "You have some tendencies, Daniel, and I'm gonna exploit those tendencies.". And he was like, "Oh, you mean how I dip. to the right when I go.". >> And he he did exactly that. >> He caught him with that head kick. I was. like, "No.". Oh, >> wow. >> But look, that's the goat. That's the.

guy, man. He's the guy. He's the guy who. always figures out a way to win. >> He figures it out. >> I heard it was somebody that he was. supposed to fight though that that. wanted to fight him. It. >> was like somebody really good. >> Oh, Tom Aspenol. Yeah, that's what I. >> Yeah. Well, see the thing with that is, you know, John is at the stage of his. career where he's like, I want to fight. legends and I want to fight fights that. are like big fights against big names. that matter. Tom Aspenol carried a high. risk. He wasn't a very well-known.

fighter even though he's the heavyweight. champion and he was really the. heavyweight champion because John. resigned the title, >> right? So, he was the interim. heavyweight champion. So, they had like. an interim title. >> and John was the undisputed heavyweight. champion and they were supposed to fight. and they they didn't make that happen. But now, you know, after that fight, John is still trying to figure out if. he's going to fight again. And if he's. going to fight again, maybe he will. fight because there's a big White House. card. >> in uh I heard about that. >> Yeah. And the White House card is a big.

one. And if that happens, that. >> it won't be Aspenol probably because. Aspenol just went through eye surgery. Yeah. >> Two different eye surgeries. He got. poked in the eyes in his fight. >> Aren't you like involved in the um UFC? >> Yeah. Yeah, I'm the commentator. Okay. >> I'm one of the commentators. >> So, are you going to be doing like Zufa. boxing, too, or. >> No, no, no, no, no, no. That's uh. Kellerman, Andre Ward, you know, they. they do a great job over there for sure. >> Um I'll definitely watch some of those. fights, though. I think it's.

interesting. It's a look, I think it's. good to have more organizations that are. competing to get the fighters because. then the fighters will get more money. >> Yes. >> And I think MMA could use that, too. Unfortunately, the UFC is the big name. in MMA. And MMA, unlike boxing, is all. about the UFC. In boxing, it's all about. who's the champ. Nobody gives a [ __ ] if. it's Golden Boy or Bob Arum. Nobody. gives a [ __ ] who the promoter is. It's. like who is the fighter that's fighting?

Is it Triple G versus Canelo? Is it who. is who are the fighters? >> Yeah. >> And unfortunately with MMA, it's not. that. It's like if you are an excellent. fighter, but you fight for the PFL, >> nobody knows. >> Nobody knows. >> Yeah. >> There's a small audience of hardcore. people that pay attention. >> Somebody fight for the PFL. >> Clarissa, huh? >> Yeah. She fought for the PFL. She's. crazy. That lady's wild. >> She's the best. >> She's wild. Oh, she's she's the best. She's the best. There's nobody better.

>> I mean, she's the heavyweight champ now. It's crazy. >> I I just wish she was kind of smaller so. like some of the smaller girls who. really think that they can be her, >> right, >> can see like. >> there's levels, >> man. Yeah, >> she's the goat. >> She is the goat, but she's she's not. getting I mean, as much as the love that. she does get, she's not getting what she. deserves. And it's just because there's. just not a lot of competition. >> I don't understand it. I don't. understand it. two two Olympic gold. medals undisputed several times in the.

sport. >> I I just don't get it. >> Well, it's just women's boxing does not. have the same level of respect and. appreciation that men's boxing does, unfortunately. >> Well, Clarissa, I respect and appreciate. you and you are my goat. So, >> yeah, I I do as well. I've had her on. She's awesome. I've had her on the. podcast. That's. >> I'm a big fan of her and I'm just the. only one that had the courage to fight. in MMA. I mean, that was crazy. She's. tough. And she really did like not bad, but she was fighting against lesser.

competition. So. >> yeah, >> but she definitely was like you could. tell she was trying. >> She would she had to learn the grappling. from a beginner's perspective. >> She was breaking out of them like. chokers. >> Well, she knows how to win, you know, and that's sometimes that's enough, you. know, at that high a level, as elite a. level as she is. But I think she's. rightly just concentrating on boxing. because I think she realizes that to to. be a world champion in MMA, she'd kind. of have to abandon boxing.

>> Yeah, for sure. >> And it would be a long. >> process. >> journey and she'd probably have to. absorb a couple more losses and. >> Yeah. >> Why should it [ __ ] these girls up in. boxer? >> And I know she don't like losing, so. >> No, not at all. No. >> Yeah. >> She's fun. She's a fun fighter to watch, though. If anybody can get people to pay. attention to women's boxing, it's. Clarissa. >> Yes. Cuz she's exciting. >> I don't see. That's why I don't. understand. I don't get it. I don't get. it. She deserve all her flowers.

>> She's the truth. And um. >> I never seen nobody. no female as good as her ever in my. life. >> No, she's probably the greatest of all. time. I I think everybody would agree. You know, you've had a few there's a few. great fighters over the years that have. been female fighters, but she's the real. standout. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No question. >> It's just unfortunately that sport I. mean there's not a lot of women out. there that want to get punched in the. face. If you had a room full of a. thousand women, there might be like one.

or two like I'll try that. You know what. I mean? >> No, I think it's some solid female. fighters in the sport of boxing. I'm not. there are there are but not in. comparison the numbers in men. Men's. boxing is just this, you know, a lot of. kids grow up, they want to be a boxer. >> Yeah, for sure. Not a lot of women are. like, "Let me put the doll down and [ __ ]. some chick up.". That's that's an unusual mindset. >> Yeah, it is. >> You know, it's just, >> you know, it is what it is. It's um it's.

We're fortunate to be able to have her. though, like cuz like if there's anybody. that's going to elevate the sport and. bring in new fighters, it's going to be. someone who is the really the only. person in the sport that gets a. tremendous amount of attention as a. woman. >> Yeah. Yeah. She she done became a. superstar. So. >> yeah, >> it's definitely uh interesting seeing. her in like them big arenas and having. all the people walk out with her and. it's amazing to see. So um I'm enjoying. her process and I'm glad that I'm here. to witness it.

>> Yeah, me too. Yeah. I mean, but you. know, other than her in the past, there. there haven't been enough. like women that have like really, you. know, Christy Martin, Leila Lee, and there's like a few that. >> I like Ann Wolf. >> Annne Wolf was a beast. >> Yeah, I like her. >> She was one of the few that could. flatline a chick with one shot, too. >> I like her. She was the truth. >> Oh, yeah, man. >> She was the truth. >> And a great trainer, too. >> Yeah. >> When she was training Kirkland. Yeah, >> bro. They they showed those videos of.

what she was putting him through and you. know when he fought Canelo he didn't. have her in his corner. >> I was just about to say the fights that. he lost he kind of did not have her. Huh. >> Exactly. She was a [ __ ] general dude. She was a general. She was she put him. through some brutal [ __ ] But that those. were the fights that he was ultra. prepared. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> I think that's the like people don't. realize I I feel like the best coaches. in the sport of boxing are the people. that kind of box. >> I bet. Yeah. >> Like Robert Garcia, I think he's the.

truth as a coach. Um. >> Sure. >> Bulmac, another fighter. >> Yep. >> Um. >> Buddy McGurt. Yep. Oh, he was a great. fighter. >> Yeah. I just feel like the coaches that. that's been in there is kind of like. they know. >> Sure. Yeah. Um I think it helps a lot. I. mean, there's a few guy like Emanuel. Stewart, did he have an amateur. background? >> I think so. Yeah. >> I'm not sure. I think so, though. I. think so. Emanuel just had a brilliant. mind for the sport. >> Yeah, I like the way he talked too. I be. watching some of his old videos and.

>> yeah, >> he actually it was something that I was. doing in my fight for this fight, but I. watched a video of him of him and he. said um fighters. overtrain like they overtrained. And. when I seen it, he started explaining. the reasons why, you know, that they. overtraining. And I seen it, I start. cutting back on some of some of the. things that I'm doing. And I'm like, man, I don't want to overtrain and don't. come out at my at my best. >> Amateur boxing career. He compiled a.

record of 94 wins, three losses in the. amateur, including winning the 1963. National Golden Gloves tournament in the. bantamweight division. Wow. Bantamweight. That's crazy. >> I mean, he was small. >> That's crazy. But man, what he did with. a Kron gym. He also had this gym like. cranked up. He made it like 98 degrees. in there all the time. >> So, everybody was like training in the. heat. Yep. He had a lot of boxers that. was like top level boxers in there, so. they was pushing each other to get.

better. So, >> yeah, >> that's the cheat code right there. >> Oh, it is the cheat code, right? Iron. sharpens iron. >> Yep. >> Yeah. You can't be the best boxer in. your gym and have everybody else that's. way below you and really get to that. world class level. >> Impossible. It's impossible. You got to. bring in guys that's on a high level. And um honestly for me I keep like the. young kids that's like up and coming. Like my little cousin, he's a great. boxer and he's up and coming and I just. was in the gym with him yesterday and.

play sparring with him and um I keep a. lot of good boxers around me. A lot of. good boxers. There's another kid, Emanuel Chance. She's like 19 years old. And like they are so skillful right now. to where like when I'm around them, I'm. still picking up things from them and. they probably don't even know it, but. I'm definitely I I got my notepad out. everywhere I go. >> Well, it's so important, right? >> Yeah. Like mentally, it's locked in. here. Like I'm watching and studying.

>> Also, everybody does everything. different. >> Yeah. >> You know, and you could just pick up. little things here and there from what. they do and start incorporating that. Yep. People don't know, right before the. fight with Tio, it was a I'mma tell you. a fight that I was watching. >> Okay, >> I'm I'mma give out a little secret. It. was a. eight-year-old kid, Tmaine Williams. He. fought a guy named Dusty Harrison and. like they literally eight years old. But. I like the way Tummaine was fighting in.

that fight. He was using his jab and um. he was the shorter fighter, but he was. keeping his range and distance and I was. literally watching an eight-year-old kid. fight right before the biggest fight of. my life. >> That's amazing. And you were studying. studying. >> Wow. >> I swear. >> that's that's great. That's such a great. mindset. >> Yeah. >> I mean, that's how you that's how you. really grow and learn. You can absorb. something from everybody. >> Yeah. You can learn from anywhere. Like. I was I was watching an interview with.

you once where you're talking about. Terrence and you said you really learn. more watching Terrence than. >> being in there. >> I still feel that way. Like I feel like. I I learn more from like seeing the. things he's doing than like being in the. ring with him. Now when we in the ring. it's always chess. Like we having chess. matches. But when I'm watching I could. see some of the things he's doing and. I'm like damn this dude is just. different. Like I knew before the Spence.

fight what was happening. I knew before. the Canelo fight what was happening. Like even when I was in the locker room, I'm in the locker room. I'm looking at. him. Call my Batman. I'm like, "Yo, put. me some more money in." I know. I know. what time it is. No lie though. >> But watching him in the gym, um, you got. to see hard training sessions. >> You got to see when he looked great. You. got to see bad days in the gym. Yep. You. got to see how he recovered, how he came. back.

>> Yep. Um, he, like I said, he's one of. the most competitive human beings I ever. met. So, I do get to see all of it. Like, I get to see go home with him, man. Okay, let me see how he thinking. about this. He'll go back and watch the. sparring. And when he watching it, oh my. god, he's adjusting. His brain is just. adjusting to the sparring that he just. watched. And then we'll go in the gym. the next day. Now he's just doing things. and. everything just on point.

>> So do you do that? Do you watch your. sparring session? >> I learned that from him. >> Yeah. >> I used to really never used to do that, but I had seen him um I forget what um. sparring session he was watching on I. want to say on his iPad and he was. watching it and then I seen him spar the. next time and I'm like we look like a. million bucks. Like the adjustments that. he made was just um insane. So I started. doing the same thing. And I'm like, if I. have a day I don't like, I go home. Why. did I have this day?

Oh my god, I keep doing that. Why do I. keep doing that? Okay, I'm not doing. that no more. Oh, I can hit him with. this. I see that that shot is open. Okay, now I'mma hit him with this shot. And um I think that that helps me. tremendously. >> That makes sense. Like watching yourself. as an observer the way you would watch. an opponent. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You got to see what you do good. and like what you do bad. So. >> and correct the things that you do bad. because. >> instead of just remembering it from the.

training. >> Yep. >> watching it. Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz I have like a bad habit. sometimes when I'm like in a boxing gym. >> I like a fight. I don't have like I. don't know why I will get in there. Sometimes I just turn into a fighter. instead of realizing that I'm a boxer, >> right? And then sometimes I get hit with. shots and I'm like, "Oh, why am I. getting hit with that shot?". >> I'm like, I know my mental, my brain was. already locked in on fighting instead of. being locked in on boxing. And.

>> then you fight. >> Explain to people what is the difference. between your mentality fighting and your. mentality as a boxer. >> When I'm fighting, I'm emotional. >> Like, and I don't want to be emotional, but I'm emotional. and I'm fighting. somebody. I'm trying to like beat them. up and I'm having a contest of who's the. the bigger and stronger guy. And when. I'm boxing, I'm just on top of my game.

and it's like I'm able to hit you and. you not able to hit me. And that's what. I do best. So, I try to like stick with. what I do best and it's going to be a. time to fight. So, I have that in my. arsenal for sure. But I don't like just. doing it for no reason. >> Do you sometimes feel yourself getting. emotional in a fight and have to pull it. back? >> I never had it happen in a fight, but I. done had it happen like in the spire to. where like, "All right, bro. You your.

emotions is just taking control instead. of like you just having fun and enjoying. what you doing, >> right?". >> So, yeah, I done had no moments in the. gym for sure. >> This is just a like a composure thing. you you're all of a sudden you're now. not thinking as much. You're just trying. to beat his ass. >> Keep the emotions out of the situation. and just be you. Be present. That's. really my main thing. I want to be. present in what I'm doing and not moving. off of like feelings.

>> Right. Right. That probably [ __ ] up a. lot of fighters, don't it? >> For sure. >> Because so many, especially men, they're. so wrapped up in their feelings and. their emotions when they're fighting. >> Yeah. But fighters don't study. theirself. Like I study myself. Like I. got to check in with myself and see like. what am I doing wrong and what am I. doing right and I correct it. >> You think that's rare? >> Yeah, I think that's a rare attribute. Um cuz fighters depend on their coaches.

They depend on their coaches to do. everything. And I do I depend on my. grandfather when I need him, but I know. that I'm the fighter that's in there. So. I'm not trying to just depend on them. I. want to depend on myself also. >> So like do you try to get the the other. guys in the gym to follow your footsteps. and watch footage? You tell them like. help them out with that? >> Yeah. Um like the younger guys that I. just mentioned, my little cousin and uh. my little brother down there, Manny. Um.

I try to tell them to tune in with their. self and do the same similar things. Watch yourself, see what you doing. wrong, and um try to correct it. But. they younger so as time go on they will. like pick up on it. But I can't rush how. I feel and my beliefs on them right now. >> Well, the best thing you could do is. lead by example. >> Yeah. Always. >> That's my main thing. >> Yeah. If you do all the hard work and. you put and then they'll see your. success when they have hard harder. moments, they'll go, "Okay, what do I.

need to adjust?". >> Yep. >> Let me follow Shakure. Yeah. >> Well, let me let me see what the champ. is doing. >> Yeah. That's the goal. That's my main. goal. cuz um like I said, I ain't going. to be boxing forever. So um once I'm. done, I'm going to sit back and I'mma. help them out. So. >> you plan on coaching when you're done? >> I probably don't don't coach. >> Just help out in the gym. >> Just call me a secret weapon. >> Call me a secret weapon. I'll be that. guy. >> Do you already think about what you're.

going to do when you retire? Boxing is a sport where when you retire, you're you still have so much life ahead. of you, >> man. That's the truth. But, um, I've. been trying to like figure it out cuz I. know it's going to be within boxing, but. whatever I do, I'm going to do to the. best of my ability. I'm going to want to. like make tons of money for what I'm. doing. And um, if I'm a secret weapon, [ __ ] I might make money just being a.

secret weapon. So is he. >> right? Just someone bringing to camp. >> I'm the right guy for it. >> Yeah. >> I got all the IQ. I watch too much. boxing. Like my life is like literally. sit down and watch TV, watch iPad watch. Like. >> I just live boxing. So. >> I think that'll be kind of easy. But I. just see myself like taking over the. world. >> In what way? >> I don't know. Like I can't tell you.

Like I don't know. like my brain kind of. like different. Like I don't feel like. I know for a fact I'm not going to be. boxing for long. Like I don't plan on. getting in the ring, doing the wrist, and doing all that forever. So. when I take over the world, it's going. to be more so like me just locking in. and using the same focus that I got for. boxing into whatever else that I'm doing. and. take over. Like whatever I do, I want to. be the best. And.

>> so you don't even have a thought of what. it's going to be. You'll figure that out. when you get out of boxing. >> I journal a lot, so I'll be writing. things down. So, I can't tell you. exactly what it's going to be, but. >> I do know that I'm going to be somewhere. making millions in a different um. atmosphere. >> Well, that's a great attitude to have. I'm glad you say you journal because. this is one of the things that I wanted. to bring up. I wish more boxers were interested in. writing books because I think there's.

some of the things that you're talking. about today and some of the things. you're talking about in terms of like. watching yourself, analyzing yourself, things you've learned that would be very. very valuable if it's written down. But. boxing knowledge is all. word of mouth in the gym. It's all. people who know things tell other people. and they learn things and and you got to. go to these gyms and talk to these. people or you get boxing knowledge from. the commentators like Andre Ward will. spit it out or Roy Jones will spit it.

out. Like that is where boxing knowledge. gets sort of recorded. >> Yeah. But I think it would be great if. boxers could sit down and write just on. boxing because you think about like what. a huge sport boxing is. Huge sport like. one of the pinnacles of sports of combat. sports. But yet there's not a lot of. books written about technique and style.

and how they learn things and what they. learned and why and what changed. and I. learned that in this fight and this. fight this changed and I adjusted this. about my training sessions and I heard. Emanuel Stewart talk about overtraining. and so I realized maybe I was doing. that. >> It is one book. >> What is it? >> Andre, what book? >> Oh, that's right. Andre, >> you got to read it. But um I'm not fully. done with it either, but as I read. through some of it, >> he's giving out some free game. like.

it's free game in there that people. could go listen to and and read it and. check it out cuz. >> it's definitely like. >> Did he read it for the audio book? >> Uh I'm not sure. I'm not sure. I know I. got the actual book so I just read it. But I didn't I didn't finish it. I won't. say that I finished it. But. >> but he talks all about those things. >> It's a lot of things in there that's. like free game. Like okay, I like that. Like. >> I might take that. Like if you're. training, even if you're training a. fighter, like you're training a fighter.

It's something that I saw that he said. that I'm like, "Okay, I'm I'mma take. that if I'mma uh train fighters.". >> Narrated by Andre Ward. Perfect. Killing. the image, a champions journey, fighting. and forgiveness. He's the perfect guy to. do that, too, cuz like I said, he's the. guy that did it right, >> you know, went out on top. >> What's that? >> He helped you understand. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we need more books. like that. I'll read that book. I I. haven't read it, but I'll read it. because I think um it's just there's so.

much knowledge out there in certain. camps and it would benefit the entire. sport if someone would document some of. that stuff cuz some of that stuff is. only told to the fighters that this. guy's training and only told to the. other fighters this guy trains with. And. it's not it's not out there and it could. get lost, you know? Like I'm sure. there's some [ __ ] that Floyd knows that. only people around him know that have. been told that will be lost. >> Yeah, for sure. >> You know what I'm saying?

>> It's something he told me before this. last fight that I took in and I'm like. >> really what. >> I'm using that. Um it's simple though. It's very simple. I don't like I say. it's hard for me to keep giving out the. Maybe when I retire I'll. >> Oh, come on man. What did he say? No, he. just told me um stretching. >> stretching. >> stretching how powerful like stretching. is. >> And I I just gave up. >> It's simple though. Like people know it,

but do people do it, >> dude? People don't even do it in MMA. >> Yeah. >> You know how crazy that is? Where you. have to kick and people don't stretch? Yeah. >> Like I was having a conversation with. this dude who was a world champion and I. was explaining to him the a jiu-jitsu. position. I was like, "This is why it's. effective." He's like, "Oh, I can't get. my legs up that high." I go, "What are. you talking about?" You You can You just. have to stretch. He goes, "I don't. really stretch." I go, "That's crazy.". >> Every, you know, there's a lot of. fighters in sports that's like,

I don't see it. >> That's crazy. >> I don't see it. >> Well, Floyd has always been a guy who. did everything right. I mean, if you. want to emulate a guy's career, Floyd. has been hit hard maybe three times in. his whole career. >> Yeah, >> maybe. >> Yeah, he's the truth. Like. >> 100%. >> I every time I watch him, >> he's a wizard. >> I didn't I barely seen anybody like that. good. >> Like for me personally, like. >> yes, >> barely like it's only a handful of.

people that I could say like, "Okay, >> they're that good." Like his brain just. working at a different level than a lot. of people. also just insanely. disciplined, always in shape, always. took care of himself, would uh go out to. a club, drink water, and then run home. in jeans. >> And jeans. >> That's tough. I I heard he had on like. boots. >> Boots. I never heard of that like that. before. >> I could imagine. I mean, but that's the.

results, right? You get a guy who's just. head and shoulders above everybody he. fights. >> Yeah. and just a master of pinpoint. precision and movement and knowing where. you are and hard to hit but stood right. in front of you. >> That's the crazy thing about Floyd. There's a lot of guys that were hard to. hit but they were like fleet of foot and. moving around and footwork and lachenko. style, you know, not Floyd right in. front of you. Right in front of you, you. can't hit them. >> Kind of similar. >> Crazy. >> Kind of similar to me. >> Yes.

>> But no, I think he's he's definitely. >> he's a Chico. Yeah, >> his mental was just too far ahead of. everybody else's. >> Yeah, >> that's the main thing. >> Well, the one fight between like guys. who retired and came back that I'm still. interested in seeing is him and Manny. and I know they're going to do that on. Netflix. >> Floyd, >> I think that's still a highlevel fight. though. That's what I love about it. because I think Manny is still a highle. fighter and uh Floyd, even in these.

exhibitions that he's been doing, >> looking good, huh? He looks great, man. He looks great in sparring. You see him. in sparring. Like, good lord, man. It. doesn't look like he's lost a step. >> Yeah. I I honestly I don't see um Manny. being able to beat Floyd Mayweather. Like, I don't see it. I I think Manny. look solid his last fight with Barios, but um. I just don't see Floyd losing. Like, I. think it's some guys that he could come. back today in the sport of boxing and.

fight. >> Yeah, I think so. like God. >> even though he's 46. Yeah. Right. >> I think he would. >> he would light Barios up. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. But I mean it was like. there's levels. I mean no matter what. he's lost being 46, he they haven't. gained that yet. I mean they're not they. were never there in the first place. So. if he was here and he's lost this much, they're still here. >> Yeah. Even though he's not Floyd that. fought Canelo or Floyd that fought. >> Ricky Hatton, it's not the same Floyd,

it's not that much different. >> Yeah. He's still so far ahead. >> cuz he's not drinking. He's not [ __ ]. his body up. He's not doing anything. stupid. He stays in shape. He eats. right. >> Yep. >> Yeah. I appreciate Floyd too cuz um. that's one of the guys that I never did. no business with ever and he still kind. of helped me. So I appreciate him and I. think he's a real dude and um he got my. love and respect.

>> Well, I always say that if you wanted to. have a style that you emulate where you. want to have a great career, look at. that guy. Like. >> really very few times in his career ever. got hurt. Yeah. >> Very very few. You can count him on one. hand. >> Yep. >> You know, and where he was in any kind. of trouble at all. >> Yeah. That's my goal. >> And then when in rematches, oh my god, in rematches, he's always just like So. like Maidana, like Maidonna, the first. fight was rough fight. >> Yeah. >> Second fight, he looked like a master.

I'm not going to lie though, he's one of. the guys that makes me want to like feel. the experience of like getting hurt cuz. like when he fought Shane Mosley, >> that moment of like he lost his. >> whole balance, everything almost went to. his feet, but he stayed up. >> Yep. >> And then he fought back harder. Like I. feel like that was like a amazing moment. of his career. And like for me, I want. to have the experience like of that.

moment. Like I have never got hit like. cracked like that yet in a pro. So I I. actually want to experience. >> You really want that? >> Really? That's. >> cuz I want to show like. >> that you could do it. >> Yeah. Like you got to see like I got. more in me to just than just being like. a good boxer. Like I'm a good boxer, but. I'm tough too. >> The Mosley fight was the probably the. fight where he got hurt the most. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. in the most dangerous cuz it was. like I think it was kind of in the. middle of the round, right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I want to feel that experience.

>> Wow. And that was prime. >> I told Andre Ward that he told me he. like, "Man, why the why why would you. want. >> why would you want to?" But I'm like, "I. don't understand why, but I definitely. do.". >> Who do you think out there could do. that? >> I don't think nobody. I don't think they're like mentally on. the level to even I think I'm just too. far ahead. >> That but that's the problem with being. too far ahead is that it's going to be. hard for you to get fights.

>> Yeah. >> What are they talking about right now? Is there anybody that they're talking. about right now for you? >> Uh no. I I haven't really heard nothing. um from a business standpoint since uh. my last fight. So um. >> the problem is the last fight was too. good. You know, like you would have. probably got some offers before that. fight, but after that fight, everybody's. like, "Hold on. I don't know if I want. that to happen to me.". >> Yeah. I don't I I have no clue who uh. I'll be fighting next. So, >> who do you have your sights on? Like, who do you like if you could make the.

decision? Who do you think is. interesting right now? If I can make a. decision interest what interests me. maybe. And this is crazy to say. Um I may go back to 35 and get that ring. belt. >> Really? >> I may. We'll see though. >> Yeah. >> I can't promise that I will, but I may. >> What What What makes that more. interesting to you? >> Um I like the ring belt. Like I like the. ring magazine belt. I don't know what it. is about it. I always liked it.

>> But for me to have. a ring belt at 130 and then I had I got. a ring belt right now at 140, but I. never had a ring belt at 35. And it's. like, should I just go get that ring. belt just to just to have it? >> So, it's the belt, not even the. opponent. >> I know the opponent that uh I would have. to fight to get it. Um I'm hearing is um. Raymond Moritaya. Um he's a good. fighter. They just beat um Andy Cruz. So.

um nah, this ain't the opponent. It's. more so just to have a ring belt. >> That's crazy. Like you're at a position. where you're not even thinking about. opponents. You're thinking about belts. you'd like to acquire. >> for sure. >> That's pretty cool, though. I mean, that's a beautiful place to be in. >> Yeah, >> that's beautiful. But what about. opponents? Is there any opponents? Like. if you had like if no one could say no. and you were like I'm going to. orchestrate my career, who would you. like to fight?

>> If it was no opponents, I mean, and I was orchestrating, I. probably. >> because the fight that I would think. that would generate the most amount of. interest at 135 would be Tank. Now, I. know Tank's got some legal issues now, and I don't know what his status is. currently, but when in terms of big names, Tank is. the big name at 35.

>> Yeah. Um, I would love for for it to. happen, but um, the way that he went on. like. social media and kind of like bashed me. in a way to where it was like he made it. seem like I need I need him. And um, I. just felt disrespected about it cuz at. the end of the day, I'm a grown man. I. make my own money. I'm living a. spectacular life. I don't need nobody. So, um, if he feel as though I need him.

and if it's that kind of stuff, then. it's like whatever. I don't I'm not in. need of that fight. >> The thing is is like Tank had gotten a. bunch of those high-profile fights. He. KO'ed Ryan. He's had some big. high-profile fights. You look great. And. so for him to say that, he's probably, you know, he's talking [ __ ] obviously, but he's like looking at you as like, you haven't had before the Lopez fight, you haven't had that big breakout fight, >> but now you have.

>> Now you have, and it was more. spectacular than you could I mean, if. you wanted to write out a perfect result. on paper against a world champion like. Tafimo, that would be the fight you. would say. >> Yeah. >> So that's it. I mean, if I had to think. of like a big fight for you, if I was. the guy with the magic wand, that would. be the fight that I would set up. >> I would love to fight. >> I would love for that fight to happen. So, >> Oh, that would be a big fight, especially after you just beat Lopez. That'd be a big fight. >> I would love for the fight to happen.

>> That might be the only big fight that I. could think of other than you going up. But 47's, like you said, that's a that's. a big jump, man. >> Yeah. I'm not I I'll make it though. I'll make it soon. Soon. I mean later. than sooner. But. >> do you think if you did that you would. want to prepare and put ma mass on or. would you just stay at the weight you. are and just get accustomed to fighting. bigger guys? >> Uh if I was to go to 47 I would want to. like prepare like I would want to.

do it slowly. I wouldn't want to just. jump to 147 and. >> um. >> you would want to put on weight you. think? >> Yeah. Some type of weight. Yep. Yeah, >> because I'm little. Like, I can't just. jump in the ring at the size that I am. >> at 147 pounds when I know guys is going. to be a lot bigger, >> right? Especially when you're talking. about Ryan being 170 when he gets into. the ring. He might even be bigger than. that. Exactly. And he was big and ripped. in his last fight. He looked [ __ ]. great. >> Yeah, for sure. You know, but it's like.

that's one of those things too is if you. do go up, going down gets real hard. going back. Like if you go up, >> you always say that. I don't understand. the the reason with that. Like. >> because your body gets accustomed to. being bigger. >> And then Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And then so. if you put on mass, right? So, if you. put on muscle and you go up to like 147. and so you're walking around at 155, 160, something like that, you drop down.

to 47, you've got more shoulder muscle, chest muscle, back muscle, leg muscle. If you stay at that weight and then you. got to cut down to 35, you're going to. feel like [ __ ] And the example that I. always use is Roy. So when Roy Jones. went up and fought John Ruiz, won the. heavyweight title, then he went back. down to light heavyweight, he never. looked the same because he was 200. pounds solid at a heavyweight, ripped. like muscular 200 lb.

>> For him to lose 25 lb of weight and go. back down to light heavyweight, that is. [ __ ] hard. >> Yeah, I get that. I get that. Um I feel. like when Rory did that, Rory was like. I think he must have been trying to set. up a big heavyweight fight maybe. Or was. he just trying to just win a title? >> I mean, I think he was just trying to be. like the only guy to go from. middleweight to win the heavyweight. title, which he did. >> Yeah. I don't understand why he did that. cuz you're right. When he fought Tarver,

it was like I don't know what was. happening. Like I didn't really think. Tarver was as good as Roy, but Tarver. beat Roy. >> Taro's a bad [ __ ] though. Tarver's Tarver is a very good fighter. and I think. >> Roy he. >> I think Tarver in that fight first of. all they had fought before right they. had had a real close decision loss. Tarver lost and then Tarver got in his. head at the beginning of the fight so. you got any excuses tonight Roy.

>> that was crazy. >> that was crazy that was crazy like to. hear that like right when you're about. to fight. >> any questions for the champion any. questions for the champ got any excuses. tonight Roy. >> oh my god All right. Right, man. I don't. know. >> That was one of the wildest things. anybody's ever said. >> That would have turned me up, though. Like, if he would have said that to me, like, I'm trying to picture somebody. saying that to me right before we fight. Now, I'm going to want I already want to. beat you bad. >> Right. >> now, I'm going to want to beat you even. better. Like, then after the fight, I'm.

going to get on the mic and what did you. say? Did you say something? >> But when he dropped Roy and knocked him. out, I was like, "Oh my god, I can't. believe it.". >> Yeah. But I was worried about him. because I know what that does to people. when they drop weight and dropping down. from 200 lb to 175 will really wear your. body out. >> Yeah. So you think it was more so the. weight than the skills of Tarva? >> I would never say that cuz I think Tarva. has elite skills. I mean Tarvo is. >> elite.

>> I think he's elite. >> Oh come on. I think Tarv is an elite. fighter. >> Elite. >> You don't think he's elite? >> No. No. >> With all due respect. great performances. and not as good performances, but I. think in the performance against Roy, he. looked elite. >> Yeah, he looked good that night, but. >> cuz he he rose to the occasion. >> I just don't know about elite elite. level. For me personally, I'm not the. biggest Tarbert fan, so. >> Okay. Well, I defer to your championship. knowledge, but uh I mean, in that fight,

you can't say that he look didn't look. spectacular in that fight. >> He did. He did. He looked on point. He. looked like he was the better fighter at. that moment. But. >> yeah, awkward southpaw. >> When I watched the first fight, I. thought Roy was a way better fighter. than him. I thought Roy just stood on. the ropes for way too long. I don't know. why he did that. >> Was the first fight before or after he. fought Ruiz? >> Um, it was I feel after.

>> Was it after the first fight they had. too? >> That probably wore his ass out too. I. think I just think once you go all the. way up like that, you should probably. stay there. >> Yeah. >> And I don't know how we went up. I don't. want to, you know, it's hard for a guy. in his 30s to put on that kind of. muscle. >> Yeah. >> And generally you have some help. >> Yeah. >> So generally some Mexican supplements. involved. And so the problem is. >> you took osteine. >> Once you have taken that stuff and then.

you stop taking it because you want to. go back to your normal weight, your. whole endocrine system gets [ __ ] up. This is the problem with juicers. Guys. who take juice, the thing that happens, >> man, don't tell me this. Oh, no. >> Listen, I'm not saying this about Roy. I'm saying fighters in general. We're. just talk in general. We. >> good. fighters that gain weight and and. have lean muscle and put on that kind of. mass. >> Yeah. >> Generally, they're doing it with some.

kind of supplement, some kind of either. steroids or something that juices up. your endocrine system, whether it is. peptides. Yes. >> Damn. I never heard of this. >> You didn't know? >> No. >> What? Come on, man. You don't. For real? >> No, I didn't know. >> Oh, come on. There's a lot of fighters. that took stuff. >> Oh, I know. No, I know that. I know that. people is cheating. >> Oh, well, in the older days before they. were testing. Yeah. >> Oh, come on, man. Like in the 90s, who. knows how many guys were on steroids. >> Damn. That take away the the credit of.

them guys cuz I feel like when I watch. them guys, they was the truth. Now you. >> they are the truth. But I don't think I. think a Well, here let me let me use. what I know for an example. And MMA MMA. is a better example. Yeah. Because in. MMA, [ __ ] for sure, I could tell you. 100%. people were juicing. >> 100%. Because I knew guys who were. juicing. Yeah. They would tell me what. they were on and everybody was juicing. >> So then.

>> they started implementing um so then the. UFC starts getting sanctioned by. athletic commissions and they test day. of the fight. >> Yeah. >> The day of the fight test is an. intelligence test. It's not a steroids. test. It's like were you intelligent. enough to cycle off? right before the. fight with the right kind of steroids so. that on the weigh-in day when you get. tested you don't test positive. >> Yeah. >> That's all it is. And a lot of these. camps like big MMA camps they have. scientists working in the camps making.

>> helping them cheat. >> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Now not so much. anymore because then the UFC it is. scary. >> But the thing is everybody was doing it. And then on top of that, you had an. organization like Pride. And I don't. know if you're aware of Pride, but Pride. was the big organization in Japan. I. mean, they were selling out 90,000 seat. arenas in Japan for these promotions. They were [ __ ] huge. And everyone was. juiced to the tits.

>> I don't know if everybody was, but a. lot. I don't think Rampage was. Rampage. told me he never took steroids, and I. believe him. >> But a lot of guys were juiced up. And I. know for a fact they were juiced up cuz. they told me they told me. >> And they also told me like Enen Inuway. who fought for Pride told me that on his. contract. Yeah. Enen Inu. >> Oh. >> yeah. Like not the like not related. Okay. But same last name. Um Enson, he. was a great fighter, a pioneer at MMA.

Um Enson told me that on his Pride. contract it said in all capital letters, "We do not test for steroids." Like they. encourage I had a friend of mine in. Japan. They encouraged him to take. steroids. >> See this this scared me because I got to. get in a boxing ring and I know that. people be cheating. Like I some people. cheat. >> I know it's be like lowlevel fighters. that you'll go there and you'll be like. why do this guy punch way harder than. a lot of people like. >> right? >> I don't understand it. And it's like I.

don't. >> Well, there's a few fighters in MMA that. when steroids started being tested for. their their body shrunk and then their. power went away. Like there was guys. that were knocking everybody out and. then all a sudden they couldn't knock. anybody out. >> It's crazy. I mean, there's so many. stories in MMA where you see fighters. physiques just deflate like. >> like they they're a balloon. They got. air let out of it. >> Feel like I seen it in boxing though. Like I see guys they kind of like get. caught with steroids. Mhm.

>> And then they have a fight after that. and it's like. >> they look like [ __ ]. >> Where did the power go? You lost all of. your power. >> But. >> that's a fact. That's a fact. >> I get it. >> That does happen. And then there's also. ways that we can't figure out what. they're doing yet. I mean, this has. happened all throughout sports, right? This was the whole thing with Barry. Bonds and the Balco scandal in baseball. They had developed a steroid called the. clear. And what the clear was was a. steroid that was undetectable. they. hadn't figured, but eventually they got.

caught. And so, who knows what kind of. [ __ ] it's not like they stopped trying. to innovate and come up with ways to get. an advantage. There's definitely people. doing it now, but the way the UFC works. now, the first they brought in USADA, now they have a company called Drug-Free. Sport that does the same thing. And they. just show up and test you. You don't get. a notification. It's going to happen. next Tuesday, so you can take a bunch of. [ __ ] that clears it out of your system. So they just show up, knock on your. door, hey, it's time for a test. And.

then you got. >> That's what VA do. >> That's how they should do. >> V do the same thing. They just show up. and. >> Yeah, that's how they should do. >> Urine, blood, and. >> Yep. >> just anytime. >> Actually, my last camp, they tested me. like four or five times. Like, god damn. >> Well, that's the only way to know. You. got to show up randomly and and test. guys. That's the only way to cool with. it though cuz I ain't never ever really. did anything when it come to cheating. So I'm. >> But if you go and this is again not. casting any disparaging remarks about.

Roy who's one of the greatest of all. time but if you went back to the Ruiz. fight, do you think they were testing. him? I [ __ ] doubt it. I [ __ ] doubt. it. There was no VA testing back then. There was no. >> And then USA was in boxing. >> No, I don't think so. No. No. >> I could have sworn they was in boxing. >> Okay, let's find out. Was uh the Roy. Jones uh John Ruiz Jr. fight, did they. utilize VA testing? I don't think they. did. >> USADA. >> USADA. >> USADA.

>> Okay. USADA. I don't think they did. Um. I don't think I don't think they Look, that was always a a thing about Manny. Like people always said that about. Manny. >> I heard that too, >> right? >> Only reason why it was believable though. cuz I never weight classes. >> I never seen that in my life. >> And kept the knockout power. I never. seen that in my life. >> Right. >> I never in the history of the sport. You. go from one what 109 or. >> whatever he started at. >> to 154 and you're just knocking guys.

out. >> I know. >> that's crazy. >> And his physique, you know? I mean, he. looks fantastic at every step of the. way. >> And he also had that dude. >> uh what it say was not held under a. modern UFC style USA program. There's no. record of it being part of any. independent year-round USADA scheme like. we see today. >> So they just depending on the athletic. commission. >> Yeah. But again the athletic commission. fight they intelligence test. Yeah.

>> I mean I will show you show him um. Alistister Overim when he fought Brock. Lesnar like at the weigh-in. Now, Alistar Overim is the greatest example. in MMA of a guy who when he was on the. juice, he was unstoppable. Unstoppable. They called him Uber when he was. unstoppable because he looked like a. comic book superhero. He was so jacked. And then when they started doing USADA. testing, he looked completely different.

I mean, completely different. He did. He. got softer. He still looked good, but he. didn't look like Uber when he There's a. an image of him flexing on the scale. Like, look at him right there. Come on, son. I mean, come on. Look at that girl. Look. at Ariani's face when she's looking at. his back. She's like, "What the fuck?". And that was uh I mean, come on, man. He. was a [ __ ] monster. >> He was knocking guys out. >> He was destroying everybody. He was.

destroying everybody. >> when he was juiced up. And he started. his career as a light heavyweight. So he. started his career as a 205 pound guy. who was thin and skinny. >> That's light heavyweight. >> Yeah, that's light heavyweight. The. UFC's weight classes are all [ __ ] up. Like Well, I know it's stupid. They have. the same names but different weight. classes. So like welterweight is 170 in. the UFC. >> Yeah. Look at him. So that's the. difference between how he was when he. was juicing versus how he was. You see. the difference? >> Yeah. >> It's crazy, right? Isn't it crazy? It's.

crazy. >> Damn. >> So, the guy on the right was just he had. to move more. He was still very. skillful. He was a very skillful. kickboxer. Very skillful MMA fighter. But I mean, when that guy was fully. jacked up and juiced, man, he was almost. unstoppable. >> See, that's why, man, that's why I be I don't like that. Like, that's my thing. I do not want to. get in the ring with somebody that's. cheating. Like I feel like that's. >> but I'm so good to where it's like even.

if you are cheating, >> you ain't going to hit me. >> You won't be punching on me. >> Imagine if you're fighting a guy that's. at your level, but he's cheating. Yeah, >> that's the problem. >> Yeah, >> that's the problem. Right now, there's. not really anybody in your division. that's at that level that's like really. compelling. I mean, other than at 135. tank, but if imagine if there's someone. that's at your level and you're pretty. sure they're cheating, that's got to. [ __ ] with your head. >> Honestly, I feel like it's some.

competitive guys at um at these weight. classes, they just not known, >> right? >> But it's some names that's like, okay, like um even Lamont Roach. >> Lamont Lamont Roach is very good. That. fight with Gervante was crazy because. >> that was a knockdown. >> That's a [ __ ] knockdown. >> He won. He won for sure. >> The the the fact that he took a knee and. the referee didn't call it a knockdown. That's crazy. >> Yeah, he won. But to say like I'm just. saying it is guys out there for me.

>> Lamont is a great example. >> Be big fights and competitive fights and. um I done inspired Lamont so I know. Lamont is a. >> he's legit. >> Yeah. I mean, a lot of people did not. know about him before that fight, but. after that fight, I mean, look, that. sucks, man, because that goes down on. his record as a loss. And that's Was it. a draw? Draw. That's right. It was a. draw. And. >> he won the fight. >> He clearly won. >> He won the fight. >> Yeah. >> I thought he won the fight anyway. >> Yeah, I did, too. >> But the knockdown, like, you can't say I. got [ __ ] in my hair and it got in my.

eyes and that's why I went down. That's. crazy. >> That was very amateur-ish. >> Was weird, right? >> That's amateurish. I I didn't. >> It was weird. >> I never saw nothing like that. >> Well, it's like Jervante just looked. like his head wasn't totally there in. that fight. >> Yeah, maybe. >> So, do you require VA testing for all. your fights? And do you have that. ability to do that? Yes. >> So, in negotiations, you make sure that. everybody's getting tested. >> when it come down to. >> Good for you. >> I do not play that. >> Yeah. Good for you, man. Good for you. I.

mean, it's we're very fortunate that we. have these testing bodies like that now. available because again, like if they. had who knows what a lot of fighters. legacies would be if they were testing. them at every step along the way. >> Yeah. They get caught. >> They get caught. Yeah. >> Yeah. So, with MMA, it was the wild west. for a long time. For a long time, it was. the wild wild west. Everybody was doing. all kinds of [ __ ]. >> I wouldn't be able to do that. Like I. would not be able to get in the ring,

lose to somebody, and then know they. cheated me, >> right? >> Because I don't I don't know how I would. react to that. Like that would be like. one of the moments I may crash out. And. I don't do crash out things. So I might. crash out about like ain't no way you. just cheated me, bro. >> Right. >> Ain't no way you just cheated me, bro. >> Well, the thing is that with combat. sports versus every other sport is your. goal is to hurt your opponent. Yeah. >> And if there's a thing you're doing. that's cheating that helps you hurt your.

opponent, >> that is a different kind of cheating. It's not like cheating in baseball. Like, who gives a [ __ ] if you hit. another home run? I think they should. all cheat in baseball. I think they. should all get on steroids. Make it more. exciting. Like, cuz the only thing. that's exciting about baseball is home. runs, right? That's the number one. thing. If you got a a way that you guys. can hit more home runs, [ __ ] give it. to them. What are you stupid? >> It's like harmless. It's like it's not. really going to hurt nobody. So, I get. it. >> Exactly. >> But and boxing is like.

>> it's life or death. >> Yeah. >> Boxing is real life or death. >> That's why I don't know how like I would. react. Don't cheat. Anybody watching. this, please don't cheat me. I am not. the guy to be cheated. So, just. understand that. >> Well, I mean, whenever people are. looking for shortcuts and people want to. win, there's always going to be someone. that's willing to do something that. they're not supposed to be doing. >> That ain't it, though. Like this is this. like you said is life or death. Like. >> life or death. >> So you could cheat and hit somebody with.

the wrong shot and then they dead. And. what's the guy that killed somebody? Uh. Sabrio Matias, >> right? >> He um killed the dude. >> and now he just got popped for cheating. So it's like. >> Oh, he did. >> Yeah. >> I didn't know that. What did he get. popped for? >> I I don't even know. >> He lost recently, right? He lost. >> Yeah. Right before the loss, they had. popped him for cheating. I want to say. >> Dton Smith. So they he lost. So he he got popped and. then he lost the next fight. >> Yeah, they let him fight.

>> Wow. >> Y but it's like. >> I wonder if he's the same guy after he. got popped. >> That's what I was saying, too. I don't. know either. But. >> cuz he was killing everybody. I mean, >> yeah, he actually. >> only killed one guy, but. >> Yeah, but he actually killed somebody. But if I'm the family of somebody that. he killed and now. >> he comes out as cheating, I will be. like, >> "Hold up now, bro." Can you see what. Matias got popped for? >> Um, that's crazy. He was Who was the. dude who just beat him? Dude just.

stopped. >> Yes. >> Yeah, >> that was a crazy fight. >> That was crazy. They was going They was. going to war. >> They went to war. I mean, that was not. an easy fight for him. And. >> Matias is a dangerous dude, man. >> Yeah, that was a great performance by. Dawson Smith, though. People don't know. back in the day when I was in the um. Junior Worlds, >> me and him went to the Worlds together. So ostine, >> everybody's on oststerine. What is it. about? I don't even know much about. ostine. What does ostine do, Jamie? Let's find out what it does.

>> Osterine. uh selective androgen receptor modulator. designed to treat muscle wasting. conditions and osteoporosis by promoting. muscle growth and bone density without. the severe side effects of anabolic. steroids. Popular amongst bodybuilders. for enhancing muscle mass and fat loss. It's not approved for human consumption. by the FDA, banned by WADA, and linked. to side effects like liver toxicity, testosterone suppression, and.

cardiovascular risks. So, it helps you. keep muscle and bone density. Yeah. Well, makes it sense makes sense. that that would be a good supplement for. boxers. What are you showing me here? >> What people look like after? >> Before after. Look at that guy. The one. you got your link on. Jesus. Well, he. looks like he's faking it in the third. picture. >> But I mean, you're always going to have. certain people that are going to cheat.

>> I hate it. >> Are there any like world title fights. that take place that don't have VA. testing? >> Uh, yeah. I think it is. I think people. um fight without it, but I I don't I. don't play that. >> Yeah, >> I don't play that. I be thinking, man, I. done sparred the dude in the gym that. was like not good one time. Like, he's. not good at all, but I'm sparring him. like, man, this dude punch harder than. everybody I ever been in the ring with. And I wonder like, do did that dude do.

he be cheating? Like, >> well, some dudes just have natural. god-given power, too. But when you like. fat, not kind of like you out of shape, then you just punch super hard and it's. slow, but it's like boom boom. >> I be thinking people be cheating. >> They might be, >> but they might just have the gift. >> Yeah, that's the thing about boxing is. punching power. You can enhance your. punching power, but that crazy punching. power, that's a gift. Yeah, you're born.

with like Ernie Shavers type punching. power or Deonte. >> Wilder. >> Wilder. The greatest example ever. >> Oh my god. >> One shot with Teddy Atlas is the best. example. He called it the eraser. All. the mistakes you made, it doesn't. matter. >> Yeah, cuz I sit there and watch Wilder. and I'm like, dog, it's some fights that. I see him not punch at all until the. shot is there. >> Right. >> And when the shot is there, he got you. It's over. It's crazy how hard he hits.

I mean, he might be the greatest one. punch knockout artist in the history of. the heavyweight. >> I think he is. I think it's like no. question. Like, he's probably the. hardest puncher that ever box. >> He's up there. I mean, Ernie Shavers. back in the day. >> punch harder than Wilder. >> Wow. They all said Ernie Shavers was the. like even Ali said nobody hit harder. than Ernie Shavers. >> Wilder. >> I know. I know. And the other thing. about Wilder too is he's not big. He. only weighed 209 when he fought Tyson. Fury the first time. >> That right hand he got crazy.

>> I don't think nobody could take it. >> It's crazy. >> I don't think nobody could take it. I'm. not going to lie. I saw Fury take it. But. >> you know what he's like? He's like a. giant Tommy Hearns. >> Yeah, >> that's what it's like. >> Long leverage, just torque, the width of. the shoulders, the snap of the punch, just blop. >> I wish he retired though. Like I feel. like he he. >> What else is there to do? like you done. did a lot in the sport. You done made a. lot of money. I just wish like certain. guys just like, "Okay,

>> I know. I know. >> What am I doing this for now?". >> Well, he's going to fight Derek Jora, which is interesting because they're. both the same age. They're both They. both have 50 fights. They're both kind. of in the same But, you know, >> I like uh Derek Chisor. He a cool dude, too. >> He seems cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's. a great time for boxing. There's a lot. of talent, a lot of very, very. compelling matchups. Are they going to. do a Bivval uh better be of rebatch? Are. they going to do a trilogy? >> I want to see Bivval versus Benvdz.

>> That's the fight. Like I don't. >> Well, the fight was Benvdz versus. Canelo. Well, that that never could get. made for some reason. >> That dude is just too big for Canelo. though. Like I I'm not I see both sides. Like I I I love Benvdz and I'm a fan of. him. So I see the side of like like. fight me, bro. You the you the guy. I'm. the guy. We number one. Number one. Let's fight. >> But then I see Canelo side. He's like, man, this dude is 200 lb on the regular,

>> right? >> And I'm nowhere near that weight. So. it's like, why would I fight this guy? Like I don't think it's fair. Like. that's how he feeling. So. >> yeah, I understand it. But Canelo went. up and fought Bval. But he knew. he didn't he didn't he didn't think. Bavar was going to beat him. >> You don't think so? >> Nah. >> Well, >> he didn't think he thought he was going. to beat Bavar. >> After BV beat him, you think that killed. the can the chances of Ben? >> He knew like it was time like I cannot.

fight these guys that super big. And. >> I love watching Benvitas fight. He's a. monster. >> He is a [ __ ]. >> He did something that helped my hands. Um he told me to put on the gloves that. I'll be wearing on fight night and um. they help my hands. So I appreciate him. too. Do you do anything to strengthen. your hands? Do you do like exercises to. >> Yeah, it's a uh I can't tell everybody. I can't tell everybody. >> All right, tell me later. >> Yeah, I'll tell you later. >> There's uh there's a bunch of different. things people do like uh buckets of rice.

is a big one. >> Oh yeah, for sure. I do that, too. >> Yeah, moving your hands around buckets. What is it? Benvita's targets to beat. you. Bivval. Oh, there we go. >> That's the fight. >> That's the fight. >> That's the best versus the best. I think. that's one of the best fights to make in. the sport of boxing. Well, he's fighting. Ramirez at cruiserweight, right? >> Yeah. >> And then he's going to drop back down to. light heavyweight and fight BVA. I like. that. Yeah. >> I want to make the biggest and the best. fights happening. [ __ ] yeah. >> Yeah, that's one of the best fights in. the sport. >> Arthur Better B of Butter B of is like.

40 now. >> Yeah. He's a truth though, too. >> Oh, he's a truth. He was a crusher. forever. >> He punched too hard. >> Oh my god. >> He another one. >> He bangs dudes out. He's got a crazy. style. Yeah. I mean, it's funny when. people sparred him, they have these. these stories. Yeah. >> Like he hits you and you're like, "What. just happened?". >> Yeah. I could see it though when I watch. them fight Bavar. I'm front row. >> Mhm. >> And like Bavar like to catch shots on. his glove and like I could see like how.

hard he was punching his glove. Like. >> like damn. >> I don't know how Ball is taking that but. >> I know. And he was 39 back then. Yeah. >> That's what's crazy. It's like we missed. his prime. >> Yeah. >> Unfortunately. >> Yeah. We seen one fight where he fought. the um the overseas guy uh Gavad. something. >> and he beat he beat him up. Oh my god. He beat him up. >> Well, he was at one point in time, wasn't he? Like 39 and0 with 39. knockouts,

>> which is just nuts at that level. That. is just. >> punching too hard. >> Just nuts that he stopped everybody. >> Yeah. And it looks natural, too. It. don't look like he's on like steroids. and looks very natural. >> But didn't he get in trouble caught with. something? >> He got caught with something. >> Yeah. Put that better be if um. >> not better be, man. >> I feel like. I might be wrong, but I feel like maybe there was a. tainted supplement.

>> Man, come on. Not better. >> I think so. I might be wrong. Yeah, you. got if I'm wrong, I apologize. >> You got to be wrong for better. >> This was 2024. Is that. >> atypical? Yeah, this is what it was. >> Atypical drug test result. Adverse. findings may have threatened. Now, what. does that mean? What does it say? Look. at Conor McGregor. Look at Conor. McGregor screaming and yelling. >> Uh, what does it say? What did he get. caught with? Um,

atypical finding is not a violation. Requires more testing. better be have. underwent those examinations at VA. request. VA reported negative results. from the follow-up test. So, what was. the positive test? >> What does that mean? >> Yeah, what do that mean? >> Oh, here it goes. He received atypical. findings for human growth hormone. and 5D androanadiol. Both occur naturally in the body. When. an atypical finding is received, further.

testing is required to determine if an. athlete naturally produces the substance. in his bo his or her body at a greater. level than the average or elevated. levels which were signs of anti-doping. Interesting. Okay. So, it could just be. that he just has naturally high levels. of HGH and this 5D. androanadol. So, that might be what it is. or. >> he was cheating. >> Could be some sneaky [ __ ] you know? I.

mean, did you ever see the documentary. Icorus? >> There's a great documentary about uh the. the drug scandal in the Olympics in. Russia. And so this was what was this. 2016? Which was it, Jamie? >> Was that the Olympics I was at? Yeah, I. was there. What? Uh, >> and they banned the whole Russian team. >> Exactly. >> I thought that was 2020, though.

>> Um, they banned the Russian team, the. follow-up Olympics, I believe, because. of the 2016. So, this guy Brian Fogle. did this documentary. It's a crazy. documentary, and the documentary was not. supposed to be. >> 2014 Winter Olympics. >> 2014 Winter Olympics. So, what happened. was Brian Fogle was doing a documentary. So, he he was a he's a cyclist and a. documentary guy. And so he said, "I want. to do a um a cycling event, a race, completely natural, and then I want to.

do it on steroids and I want to document. it all and then, you know, make this. documentary on what is the difference. and just show every because cycling is a. very dirty sport." Yeah. Like tour to. France, those guys, they put engines in. their [ __ ] bike to make it like. easier to pedal. They do a lot of crazy. [ __ ] blood doping. So he does this. naturally and then he gets this guy um. uh what was his name again? >> Gregory. >> Greg Gregory Richenko who was Reenkov.

who was the head of the Russian. anti-doping feder but it was really a. doping federation. Yeah. So what they. were doing at the time was. >> so he starts working with this guy. This. guy's telling him what steroids to take. and how to get better. At the same time, the Russians get caught like while he's. filming all this and that guy has to. leave the country and that guy spills. the beans and he tells them exactly what. they did. And what they did was they. took the clean urine, they made a hole. in the wall so the place where they.

stored all the urine, they made a hole. in the wall where they could swap out. the Russian urine and swap it in for for. good urine. And they found these. microabbrasions on these supposedly. unopenable jars. Yeah. >> And so when they looked at it with a. microscope, they said these they figured. out a way to open these jars. So they. would pass it through the hole in the. wall, open the jar, empty it out, put in. clean piss, and give it back to them. So.

essentially, the entire team was doped. up. >> Yeah. So basically, that's why they said. in the Olympics, they wasn't sure if. Russia was going to be able to compete. Right. >> Exactly. And so in Brazil, the followup. Olympics, the next Olympics, the entire. team couldn't compete. >> The cycling team, >> no, the entire Russian team, all the So. the cycling thing was just this guy that. was doing this documentary, and he was. using the head of the Russian. anti-doping agency to help him do it. like openly. So it was just for a.

documentary. It wasn't like trying to. win a race and cheat. He was like. saying, "Let's see what you would give. me and how much better my performance. would be." Yeah. >> And this guy who he's using is at the. head of the scandal and then this guy. tells him everything. >> Yeah. >> And it's nuts. >> Russia did compete in Olympics though. >> They did compete in 2016. >> They must have didn't compete in 2020. then. >> Well, it was one of the the I think they.

allowed individual athletes to compete. whatever the subsequent Olympics was, but they didn't allow them to represent. Russia. >> Okay. Yeah, cuz the it was a guy from. Russia in my weight class. >> Oh, yeah. >> In the 2016 Olympics. >> He definitely was kind of strong, too. >> Well, the Russians, I mean, they were. they were the beginning of all this. stuff. Like the Eastern European women, weightlifting, they they. >> So, they came up with the cheats. >> Well, they figured it out. They figured.

it out early on. They've been doing it a. long ass time. >> Yeah. So, who knows. with Better B or any of these guys. It's. you've got to always assume that without. something like Vada or Drug-Free Sport. or USADA, there's always going to be. someone who's trying to figure out a way. to get a competitive advantage. >> Yeah, I hate it. >> It's gross. >> Hate it. It comes with it though. >> Yeah, it comes with it. It is what it. is. So, um, anything else you want to.

cover before we wrap this up? Nah, I. ain't got nothing else. I think we good. >> Listen, man. Congratulations on. everything. It's been beautiful to watch. you fight. I'm a Giant fan and I'm I'm. happy to see after the Lopez fight, you. get all the respect and the credit that. you deserve and and I can't wait to see. what happens next. >> Thank you. I appreciate you and I. appreciate you giving me the opportunity. to come on the podcast, one of the best podcast in the world. So, I appreciate it. >> Thanks very much. It's my honor. All.

right. Bye, everyone.