JRE MMA Show #170 with Michael "Venom" Page

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by. night. All day. >> We're up. All right. MVP in the house. >> The most enigmatic, difficult dude to. solve in all of MMA. That's you, man. >> Bro, you know what? I I always I want to. start simply because. you what you have done for me.

specifically. I get a lot of criticism, a lot of hate. and especially obviously jumping when I. first got into the into the MMA world. New to me, you know, I'm just like, "Okay, let me just be myself, do my. thing." first fight goes well, land this. crazy kick, goes viral, and I get. nothing but hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate, hate. But then having. prominent figures like yourself that uh. constantly have been champion my style,

uh champion championing the points. element of things. I just appreciate you. for that. >> Oh, my pleasure, brother. I appreciate. you. It's almost like we called for you. because there was a time in the early. days of MMA, like in the early 2000s, where I was like, "This is what's. missing." This what's missing is point. fighters. And people would like mock me. They be like, "No, no, no, no. Like, I've sparred with these dudes. You can't. hit them. It's a different thing." I'm. like, "They have a very specific skill. That skill of closing distance and being.

elusive, it's not like any other sport. It's almost like fencing and MMA. combined and martial arts combined.". >> Yeah. Yeah. I always tell people that. like most of the combat sports in terms. of kickboxing, the full contact side of. things is more to do with the there's a. fixation on power knocking people out. whereas our element is just the speed. element. >> Yes. >> Just getting in and getting out touch. like you said the tag tag kind of feel. fencing. >> similar kind of footwork and yeah just.

not many people had decided to cross. over to any kind of full contact world. really. Um, and he had the likes of. Wonderboy Thompson, >> Raymond Daniels. >> Raymond Daniels. >> Yes. You and Raymond were the most. prominent ones in him and Glory. Of. course, you and. >> well, he did a little bit MMA. >> A little bit MMA, but. >> but you're more prominent in MMA. But. the the point was that this was an. element that when I remember when I was. doing Taekwondo and I would fight in. tournaments, I would occasionally fight. in point fighting tournaments. And if.

I'd fight a guy like Mafia Holloway or. one of these guys that were really good, I'm like, "This is crazy. This is such a. crazy skill. >> And when I saw MMA where a lot of guys. were just like like real flatfooted and. waiting, I'm like, there's a giant. opening here. >> And then you came along. >> and you really were the proof of. concept. And I was like, okay, this is. it. You get a world champion at that who. figures all the other stuff out because. >> essentially striking is striking. You. know, you can learn throwing leg kicks.

differently. You can learn, you know, different stances and movements. The. grappling is the big heat. That's the. big hurdle. >> But once you can solve the take down. defense and some of the grappling. hurdles and you've got actually got some. mission victories, >> then you got a real problem because. every fight starts standing up. >> Exactly. >> Every fight starts standing up with a. big ass [ __ ] cage. >> It's a big ass cage. And I see guys like. Kevin Holland like he's like, "What the. [ __ ] do I do with this guy?". >> He hated every moment of it. I could.

feel it. But that's that's just part of. my style is that kind of frustrating. people because it's just so unfamiliar. for like for someone like yourself. You. would kind of. >> be in there whether you're successful or. not, you'd understand what's happening. and you you'd be calm enough still to be. like, "Okay, I need to know how to. figure this out cuz I've I've. experienced this before.". >> Yeah. >> For someone that's never experienced and. because there's few of us in the MMA. world, who do you go to to train? >> There's very few people that are really. good at that. >> Yeah. And like I said, Wonder Boy.

Thompson. >> Yeah. >> He, you know, friend of mine, uh, obviously meeting him and, you know, just us getting on. >> And he's even said people have contacted. him like, "Oh, yeah, I'm fighting MVP. Like, I want to train with you." He's. like, "I want MVP to win." So, >> I can't help you, bro. >> I can't can't do anything. >> Well, it's it's good for the sport. Yeah, >> it really is because you know like think. about there's certain techniques just. come along like the calf kick and all of. a sudden like how is this people have.

been kicking legs for so long. How is. this. >> kicking a different spot on the leg kind. of revolution? We need to see that and I. think the introduction of you is going. to make a lot of these guys that are. like highle point guys go. >> there's a there's a spot there for me. >> because the opening look like look. there's always an advantage in the fact. that every round starts standing up. >> as long as you have takedown defense. every round starts in your realm. >> and your realm is different than all the. other standup realms.

>> it's totally different and if a guy is a. plotting guy and he thinks oh this is my. world like that's how you're world. >> It's not your It's your world against. someone who agrees to fight the way you. fight. >> 100%. >> And I always say that there cuz I, you. know, I've come up against guys and was. like, man, he can he's got big big hit. with a big punch on him. And I agree. I'm like, yeah, I get it. But power only. means something if you land. >> Yeah. >> And my whole element is like not being. touched. >> It's also [ __ ] with people's heads. One of the one of the things you did.

during the Jared Caner fight after you. hit him, you like, calm down. Calm down. like, oh no. Cuz you imagine just. getting popped, your eyes are runny, your nose hurts, and this dude standing. in front of you going, "Calm down. Calm. down." Like, "No, he didn't. >> Oh, no. It's psychological warfare.". >> But that's the end. That's obviously. that's kind of like part of my. personality coming out. >> and the entertaining side of me and a. lot obviously added to the criticism.

that I would get which because of how I. would make my opponents feel in terms of. their frustration and then obviously the. antics on top of it so many people the. the the main term that came with me was. like oh he's fighting cans he's fighting. cans my whole career was he's fighting. cans like he can't but I always say to. people is I'm just making it seem. a lot less difficult than it actually. is. These guys are super talented. fighters. I'm just not fighting on the.

same wavelength and timing as them. As. you said, these guys that plot around, they're so used to it. So, when they're. fighting other people, it looks very. even. And when they're fighting somebody. that they just can't get their hands on. and they're getting frustrated on top of. that. >> So, there's the mental side, the. physical side. >> And you have a lot of power. So, there's. consequences. >> Yeah. There's consequences. like you're. tip, you know, tippy tappy patting them. every now and then. Like the Cyborg. fight was one of the craziest knockouts. in all of MMA history. >> And you know, one thing I actually.

wanted to do, I actually brought some. gifts for you, but one of the things I. actually wanted to bring for you. >> Don't tell me you brought a piece of his. head. >> No, he wouldn't let me have that. So, yeah, I have to leave. I actually wanted to We. We basically had a poker ball come. It's. very specific one. And they messed up on. delivery. But I'm going to get it to you. in Vegas. Okay. >> So, when we go over to Vegas, I'm just. making sure. >> I I get that to you because again, it's. something that you've spoken about. >> with me and it's a big it's a big part. of my my history uh in MMA, just that.

that that cyborg fight. So, >> that was the most gruesome. >> injury I've ever seen. I've seen a lot. of broken bones. I've never seen someone. with a caved in head. >> Yeah. Yeah. The doctors were saying that. um what we were hearing back from, they. said he's only ever seen that in a car. accident. never in in MMA. Yeah. >> That is so crazy. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> And that was his last fight. And I know. after the fight he was like, "We're. going to fight again." The doctor's. like, "Hey.". >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I think he.

was. >> I'm someone sent me something where he. was supposed to fight again and and then. I'm not sure what happened there, but. yeah, he didn't. >> That's crazy. How could you fight again. after that? What made it I felt very bad. obviously at the time as well but then I. didn't see him for another two years. right boom. >> that was just. >> and the sound the sound of that was. >> it's only when I watched it back. >> the sound give me the sound Jamie. >> it's hard to breathe so just about. everything you need in a fight you lose. off the liver shot it.

[Applause]. and it's over. >> it sounds like a baseball bat on a. pumpkin. >> you know what I. Just [ __ ]. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. It was diff thing is I didn't know. I keep telling everybody I didn't know. what happened cuz obviously they're like. you celebrated like threw the poke ball. at him afterwards. >> I did not know. >> You thought it was just a knockout. >> Yeah, I thought it was a knockout and. obviously cast from kicking his legs. I'm I'm assuming maybe I broke his nose. or cuz I can see he's not out but he's.

in pain. It must have must be something. like that. It's only the next day that I. found out. >> but yeah, it was it was a bad one. >> That was a bad one. Yeah, it's a very. bad one. And the thing is, like I said, I met him. I want to say like two two and a half. years later down the line. >> Obviously, this clip's just been going. going crazy online and so on and so. forth. I just I felt awkward. I didn't. want to but also he had come over for. another MMA show, but with one of his. students, but one of his students was. fighting one of my teammates.

And at the beginning, my coaches were. like, "Oh, do you want to, you know, go. and at some point go and see him?" and. say hello. I was like, "Yeah, please.". Like, "I'd love to." Cuz that's the last. time I saw him. The fight happens and my teammate is. known for his leg locks and breaks. his his student's leg. So, I'm like, "For [ __ ] sake.". >> God. >> So, after like, "Do you do you want to. go and see him?" I was like, "Yeah, yeah, I I'll try." I just I just felt.

like I needed to. >> Sure. >> And I kind of walked into the room. His. guy's obviously upset for losing. He's. like getting sorted out by the medics. and he's sitting there just looks at me. and I'm like, >> "Hey, what what do you say?" Like. >> unlucky. Uh like I just like he's like. shook my hand. Like I could just feel. the energy wasn't right. It just wasn't. the right timing. But I didn't know when. I'd get to see him again. And I haven't. uh again since. So. >> yeah, I I just felt it's just one of.

those things. I just felt bad. >> Yeah. >> But what do you do? >> There's nothing. >> Yeah. Yeah. What do you do? What do you. do? >> Guy's got a broken leg. You broke his. head. It's just. >> just stay the [ __ ] away from you and. your crew. >> I mean, at least you're nice about it. and friendly. It's just It is what it. is. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's such interesting. cuz you've trained with um Marius uh my. coaches, one of my coaches, Marius and. um obviously he says to say hello. >> Tell us. I love that dude.

>> Yeah. Yeah. He said he's training with. you guys. I think you guys trained for. about four years with Eddie Bravo as. well. >> Yeah, I've known him for 20 years. >> Crazy, crazy, crazy, >> crazy. >> And that's obviously that's a big part. of my my history now with them two the. brothers Alexis and Marius. >> Were you at the gym when when. >> Lee. >> when Lee Murray was No, >> no, no, no. I was just after. >> just that. Luckily, >> but interestingly though, when I was in. at the time that I he was around, uh I was still very like heavily focused.

on the points fighting, kickboxing. So, but a friend of mine was training at. shoot and he was like, "You need to come. and train with these guys. Like, these. guys are serious." And but for me, MMA. was just never going to be a thing that. I'd ever see myself in. >> really. I've always seen it as I guess. like your average fan back in the day. and some fans now of like ass brutal man. like I right. >> and again I'm a points fighter like I. don't see myself being good enough to or. tough enough to fight these guys like.

>> what changed. obviously M had a successful career in. the kickboxing but it didn't really go. anywhere it's like you're fighting the. same people like the amount of times me. and Raymond have fought and we were like. the some of the top two guys. Like if. we're both in the competition, like we. both walk in the room, everyone's like, "Oh my god, are these guys going to. fight?" Like. >> we were the guys, but I'm fighting the. same people and it's just like. everything. everyone hoping that you're.

going to lose or your fans are kind of. like supporting you and then I come back. to reality, come off a plane, I. traveled, I fought all the, you know, the whole week or whatever, won a world. title and I've come back home and. >> nothing like. >> I come back home to. >> just me being myself, just me being me, >> which I'm okay with, but there's no. recognition. There was no. >> sponsorship. I you I paid to do. everything. And as I loved it and if I. could choose the route again, I'd still. do it cuz I absolutely loved it. But.

there comes a I'm getting older and it's. comes a point where I have to now I'm. starting to at the time I'm I'm a kid, but now it's getting to the point where. I have to work. And so now it's like I. can't do this forever, but at the same. time I know I want to compete for a. living. I just didn't know what in what. So then I said to myself, "Okay, cool. Let me I need to take a step away from. this. I know while I'm in this, this.

will be a distraction. I'm not going to. be able to focus on things cuz another. competition that I'm going to want to. win is going to come up and it's going. to turn my attention." So I said, "Look, I'm going to I said to everyone, I'm. retired." I thought, let me say it to as. many people as possible so then it's. hard for me to turn back on it. So I'm. just like, "Yeah, I'm okay. Yeah, I'm. retiring now. Not fine again. Yeah, this. my last fight." And I said, "Cool. started to go around looking at boxing. gyms, looking at full contact. kickboxing, looking at MMA gyms, and the.

first gym actually went to was uh in. Miami, Coconut Creek uh American Top. Team. >> Ah. >> yeah, cuz my sister uh used to live in. that area cuz I got uh siblings over in. America as well. So came out there and. in my head at the time there's only few. people from the UK that was doing. anything in MMA. So when I was like. maybe I'm going to try MMA, I was like. obviously I have to go to America and.

I'm lucky enough to have siblings that. live over there. So I'm good. So get to. America, get to American Top Team. I go. in there. I'm like this is where I'm. going to start. Like I've met a couple. of the coaches and just kind of just. like general chitchat. I didn't tell. them who I was or anything. Just kind of. saw the vibe. the facilities are. amazing. I was like, "Yeah, this is this. is going to be my new life." And then I. get back to England and good friend of. mine, Marvin Francis, was like, "Just in. case, just have a look at some gyms over. here. You don't know just what before.

cuz obviously I got things to sort out. before I can just make the full move. So, while you're doing that, let's have. a look at a couple of gyms." And we did. some research. We went to a couple of. the Gracie gyms, went to a few other. gyms that was around. Then I found. London Shoot Fighters. I hadn't done any. research and at this time I personally. wasn't watching MMA at all. The only. person I knew, >> what year is this? >> H So I would have been. I'd have been what 24.

So what's that about? It's over. 12 13. years back. And I was trying to say the only guys in. the UK would have been Brad Picket was. fighting. >> uh. >> solid fighter. >> Solid fighter. Michael Bispin was. fighting. but and nobody had like achieved. anything of big quality from there. Everything everything was in America.

>> Um. >> was Bisping still living in England or. had he moved to America? >> I think he was still in I think he was. still in England. Yeah. Yeah. Um, but. again, I was only learning it as I got. more into it. But initially, I just. thought I made the decision without. actually researching anything, which is. very much like me. I'll just. jump in head first. figure out afterwards, right? >> So, I literally I said to myself, okay, cool. I've got to.

London shoot Fighters and the only. person I knew was Chuck Liddell. I've. actually seen and I just was like this. guy is just knocking people out. I was. like that's I could relate to that. I. was like he's a striker. >> Everything else I didn't really care. for. I was typical fan like when they. got on the floor I was like. [ __ ] sake. Get stand up. Stand them up. So and never been to a show anything but. these are he's a guy that I like. watching and then I want to I made a.

decision I want to do it. Cool. uh started in London Street shoot. Fighters and for some reason the guys. there I don't know what cuz I' I've had. good coaching. um so in my outings so I can I feel like. I can hear sense when I've gone to a. place I'm I'm hearing how they're. coaching and what they're saying and I'm. like it just makes sense to me. I was. like cool I'm going to start here. I. still want to go to America but I'll. start here for now and then just see. where it goes and I just fell in love. with the place. >> Was that the first time you did any.

grappling at all? any grappling at all. >> Wow. >> Didn't do any I All I was doing every. day was applauding people cuz I was. tapping every two seconds. I just. >> every two seconds. >> Frustrating, right? >> But I loved it though. >> Oh. Well, you have a good mindset. >> Yeah. It was It was weird. Like I kind. of enjoyed the fact that like I'm. looking at this guy like if I saw you on. the street in my head, >> right, >> I'm destroying you. >> Yeah. But this guy just twisted me up.

into a pretzel. >> It's a humiliating feeling. >> Oh, so humiliating. But I again I crave. I if I go back to the point side from. about like you you met my brother. outside. Uh him he's my he's the oldest uh of my. siblings uh sorry of my the boys. Uh my. sister's the oldest then it's my. brother. I got two other brothers then. me. And at the time we were fighting. around, but they were winning. everything. I used to get my ass kicked.

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packs with your first subscription. order. Just head to drink ag.com/jo. or click the link in the description. That's drinkagg.com/joan. >> Like he was for me, he was the more. talented one. But I mean like every. single weekend we're driving to. Birmingham, to Manchester, to Scotland, to we did trips everywhere. Like my my. dad started a gym and he was going.

around everywhere and every weekend. there it's like 3 hours that way, four. hours this way. There coming back and. I'm just boss lip. and they're just the medals are just. like clinging. like they got all the. medals and they're talking about how. they spin kick some guy and they did. this and I'm just like, "Yeah, yeah, cool, cool story." And I got destroyed. for. four, five years. and. when I was I got to a qualifiers.

uh is in Birmingham. uh it was an IASA uh qualifiers and I I. managed to win that which that in itself. was success for me. Like I'm like, "Oh. man, I qualified to go to the World. Championships. I've already done well. Everyone else. was there, so they were supposed to do. it." Like they're good enough to have. the expectation of themselves. So then I. get to the World Championships. And the. way they seed fighters in the US was. very different to the UK at the time. So.

I had one fight, another fight, another. fight, and I'm winning and I'm like. happy. I'm like, I must be in like the. finals already. And then they're like, "Okay, bring the Cedars fighters in.". and there's like a shitload of fighters. joining your your your mat. And I'm. like, "Oh." My my dad would tell me, he's like, "Yeah, I think you're in a in. a in the semis. I think you're in the. quarters." And then he was like, "Bro, just keep fighting." He couldn't work. out. >> I don't know. Seriously, I genuinely don't remember. I just.

remember just feeling tired and I didn't. understand why this was still going on. cuz in the competitions, three, four. fights, you're in a final, >> right? And I I was at least 10 fights. deep and still felt like I was fighting. >> all in a day. >> In a day. >> Wow. >> So, there's a again the Aaska um world. champions in Orlando, Florida. And it's. it's a it's was the big at the time the. biggest uh points kickboxing. competition. So, there's thousands and. thousands of competitors, kids, adults.

doing forms, doing, you know, catters. and all this stuff. And then the you had. the points fighting, the light contact. fighting, and that was it. Um, and yeah, it just all day. And then it literally. got to this like, okay, uh, I won a. fight and the guy was like, "Okay, you're in the final next." The referee. said that to me, and I was like, "Oh, what?" Like, I can't believe I'm in the. final. And this guy was very good. I. can't remember his name. He was young. I. was, I think it was like 12 or 11 at the. time. And I won the fight. Just clapped.

to my like my my back. I was just like, "Oh my god." Everyone ran in there cuz. again, nobody expected that of me. And I. remember going in there, the trophy. itself was 6' tall. And in my head, I. was like, "I just want one in my house.". And I managed to to win that. But. something that competition clicked. So. all the times I was getting beaten up, all the competitions I was getting. destroyed at, it wasn't even like close. I was getting destroyed. I won I won. this competition and I went back home.

and every person I used to get destroyed. by I was smoking them like something was. different. >> instantaneously. >> there there was a weird shift that just. went click wow. >> and all the kicks that would I'd walk. into face first I was like oh actually I. can do this I was like. >> wow you entered into the matrix. >> I'd literally I just I to the point to. the point where so when I went back home. I was like 12 and for the year for that. circuit. I I didn't lose a fight. And.

this is from this is from getting. whooped. >> That's crazy. >> And this is I'm fighting all the same. guys that I I grew up. >> And they must have been like, "What the. fuck?". >> Yeah. What the hell's going on here? Then the when I was 13, I asked my dad. I was like, "Can I please fight in the. seniors?" And the seniors are 18 plus. And he was like, and he said it to me, he said it to me later on. He was like, "As a coach, I knew you could as your. dad." I was like, "Hell no." And I. begged him like every competition we got.

like, "Please, can I find the seniors, please?" And there was a big uh British. championship competition. And I I. begged, I was like, "Please like he was. like, you can do this one.". And again, I don't think he remember. these guys are 18 plus, but all. different sizes as well. I I don't think he knew I'd do well, but. not as well as he I did. So, I won the. my senior division. >> Wow. >> For my weight. >> Um, and like I said, these are big men,

but the problem is whoever when you win. in this competition specifically, when. you win your go into the grand. championships. >> And I'm like, "Dad, >> you got to let me go.". >> He's like, "No, that's this is different. now cuz they're they're the winners of. their division. this is that was your. weight division. Now these guys are the. winners of their own weight. You can't. do this. I begged him. >> and I beat everybody and got to the. final and the final was really really. close and I felt like I got robbed and.

even my dad was like he could never tell. me no after that cuz I destroyed some of. the best fighters on the in that in the. UK at the time. Do you think it was a. confidence thing of having gone through. that grueling tournament and proven that. you could do it and now you didn't have. doubts in your mind anymore or was it. you had just seen so many different high. levels of competition that like maybe. your own expectations had risen? Like. what what was it that made that. instantaneous shift? Because it's one. thing to go and compete and do really.

well all of a sudden and like now I'm. competing. But then you went and you. were doing against people that were. normally beating you and you're [ __ ]. them up. That's that's a that's like a. 50% shift. That's a giant shift. >> I would say one thing obviously I hated. losing as anybody would especially as a. kid. Um, and. we also, and I think it's all of us, we. wasn't allowed. So, a lot of the kids. would fight first and then the seniors. would fight and but because we all. travel down together, we stayed the.

whole competition until the seniors were. finished so we can drive back. A lot of. the other kids were messing around when. obviously we like guys that I've spent. I've I've known since I was 8 years old. that I'm still good friends with now. because we were the kids like playing. with each other afterwards, like just. being all cool. But my dad was like, "No, no, no. you represent me, you sit. down and watch. >> So, as much as we could play a little. bit like when he wasn't looking, but we. had to try and get back to the mat and. make sure we were watching people. And I.

I feel like I'm a visual learner and I. feel like that helped me become that. visual learner. As much as I was getting. my ass kicked, I was also spending time. watching amazing athletes at the time. Yeah, I think it's an important thing to. mention that at that time there wasn't. video readily available like there is. today. >> Like I remember the first time I went to. the Taekwondo uh World Cup. It was in. Colorado Springs in uh 200 I mean not. 2000 1980 I think it was ' 86.

>> and the first time I went um I. immediately got better. >> just by seeing them just by seeing. everybody. I just went as a spectator. >> Yeah. I hadn't beat beat beat beat beat. beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat. beat beat beat beat beat beat beat beat. beaten anybody to qualify for the. nationals. So when I went there the. whole experience was just absorption and. I came back and I was much better much. better. I'd never seen those guys live. but my expectations for competition my. expectations for movement and speed. everything had risen. And at the time I. was 18 so it was just when you're 18.

your brain just you just absorb. You. just absorb. >> And I think even more so when you're. younger. >> Yes. >> And for me. >> Oh yeah. When you're a little kid. Yeah. And I like I my first competition I was. 5 years old. So that is just like many. years ago being up. But. >> that's incredible though because your. body develops with that. I I started a. little late. I started karate when I was. 14 and then wrestling and taekwondo when. I was 15. >> But I wished I started earlier cuz I was. with these guys that were younger and. their little bodies had like grown.

stretching and they they'd grown. punching and kicking. Like you develop. into that. >> Yeah. Well, funny you say that. I that's. where my name came from. So Venom came. from when I was nine. And. the only kids that was in my dad's class. at the time mainly bar a few others cuz. at the time we did it was basically one. class. He didn't really separate the. kids and adults. It just one class. So. you're I'm trying my best throwing. everything in to hit adults.

>> and they're not moving. But I'm trying. my best to just get some kind of. reaction. And then when I started. hitting people my own size, even though. I was losing because they were they just. obviously I was tall for my age as well, so I was fighting kids slightly more. naturally developed than me, but I had a. had a whack on me. >> That's a great way to put it. >> You know what I mean? Like even though I. I you know, I wasn't beating these guys. These guys were just way too fast for. me. But when I hit them, they felt it. And it was one of my again, Marvin was.

literally just like, "Hey, you got some. venom in you, man." Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And we was very into like kung fu movies. back in the day. And then and I was very. um creative mind like I loved just just. even with my martial arts. I learn a jab. like this and now I have to add. something. I I can't do things. conventional. I've never never liked to. do it. If there's a everyone's walking. that way like I want to see what's over. there. Like I just I don't know what is. wrong. I don't know what's wrong with me. but. >> or what's right with you. >> or what's right with me. But I just got. that like I was just curious and.

creative. And so there's a film called. The Five Deadly Venoms, like old school. old school kung fu classic. And he would. be like, "Yeah, five deadly venoms. Let's make a move for each like uh thing. cuz he'd be like Scorpion or Toad." And. I would make up weird moves and try to. add it into and that was always my. thing. I'd see something on the in the. movies and I like I'm going to try it in. the in there. This is all while I'm. still getting beaten up, by the way, as. well. But that never left me. So even. when I started beating all these people,

now I'm doing it with the style and. flare of like what more can I do? >> Yeah. >> You know what I mean? >> So Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, it's it's so perfect for martial. arts for you for MMA because a lot of. MMA is pattern recognition. You get you. get accustomed to certain types of. movements. I know this guy's going to do. this. The calf kick's going to be. available. I'm going to faint with this. and I'm going to throw that. I'm going. to shoot that double here because I know. he's going to come with the overhand, right? all these patterns. You don't. have you don't have normal patterns. So,

you're moving around, your hands are. down, you're sideways, they're like, >> and they have to make up new patterns as. they go along. So, they have to think, >> they have to react. It's it's such an. advantage. >> Yeah. And I always tell people that like. the first time they're actually really. going to experience this style is on the. night. >> Yeah. >> And you have to figure it out on the. night. >> because there's not enough guys that. have what you can do that also compete. in MMA. Yeah, >> there's a there's might be five or six. in the whole world, >> which is nuts.

>> It's kind of nuts, man. It's It's really. the. >> I had been saying this for decades. I'm. like, this is the one thing that's. missing. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and then when you came over, I was. like, see, >> this is what I'm saying. This is crazy. You can't even hit him. >> It's weird though. It's a blessing and a. curse. uh blessing obviously being a. being having the advantages of a fight. but sparring headache earlier a lot of. people wanted to kind of like let me see. what this is about then word spreads.

quite quickly and I struggle with. sparring I think it's starting to come. back now people are a bit more willing. but I struggled with sparring couldn't. get sparring. >> couldn't get sparring cuz also and I. kind of see it from other people's point. of view it's like well why I'm not going. to fight anybody like that. So why why. why am I coming over? >> Yeah, but if you saw that, if you with. your mindset, you would be like, I got. to figure out what the [ __ ] he's doing. >> 100%. And my teammates, they're forced. to, >> right? >> And a lot of them, they even say like,

I'd spar you and then I go spar someone. else. And they feel so slow cuz I'm when. I'm with you, my eyes are like this. Like I'm I'm forced to be like ultra. alert. >> and then I go and someone's throwing a. punch. Oh, >> that's the thing, too. It's exhausting. Yeah, >> it's exhausting. Your style is. exhausting because you always have to be. at high alert. There's no moment because. there's so many times where you've done. like. >> like a a shift in rhythm and it looks. like you're slowing down and then you. explode and crack people.

>> And you've done that so successfully so. many times that if they've watched any. tape there, they know there's no there's. no moments where you could catch your. breath. There's no moments. And you're. always putting pressure on people. You're always fainting in the faints. alone. See, people don't even know when. you're just standing there. It looks. like you're just standing there, but. you're standing there and a guy's. fainting and you you never know when. he's going to actually launch and you. your whole body is constantly tense. You. can't breathe. >> and that's just their energy bar just. doing this. >> without anything happening. >> Anything without any kicks landing,

>> no punch, which is actually why I'm. actually a big fan of like Tomas Aspenol. as well cuz you don't really see that. anywhere full stop but definitely not in. a heavyweight division. >> No heavyweight moves like him. >> No one no one moves at the M9. >> Moves like a 185. It's crazy. with that. kind of explosive and that power. It's. crazy. >> Crazy speed for a heavyweight. >> Crazy speed. >> That's why the Jon Jones thing was. being, you know, Jon is one of the, if. not the greatest fighter of all time, >> but it's not the fastest guy in the. world. >> He hasn't, but he's just so complete and.

his fight IQ is off the charts. Off the. charts. Like. >> very wellrounded. >> Very very well and wild. You know, opens. up his world title fight with Shogun. with a flying knee. >> Yeah. Crazy. wild, you know, just just. believes in himself, goes for it, confidence, goes for it. >> I thought that was a complicated matchup. for him. >> He is. >> cuz that guy's not easy to get to the. ground. And uh Aspenol and he's fast as. [ __ ] and he's big. He's a legit 250 lb.

natural, not, you know, no, he doesn't. need anything. No way he can make 205. ever. He's [ __ ] big. >> Yeah. I I got to train with him and I. went down there and I was like, "This. guy, he's a he's a tank. >> It's a tank." So, that's a problem. >> That's a problem when you're not really. a heavyweight. As great as John is and. and I think John beats most heavyweights. that have ever existed, >> I that's a that guy's a pro. Francis is. another problem. That's another problem. cuz you're dealing with a real 265.

lb solid natural grew up in the sand. mines. Literally. >> his story is crazy. >> Crazy. >> His story is. >> He told it on the podcast. He told the. whole story of him going to Morocco and. getting to Europe. >> That's a movie, man. >> Yeah. Crazy movie. >> I'm surprised nobody has has jumped on. that. >> I'm surprised, too. Someone needs to. It's nuts. >> Yeah, that we'll do it. We'll do it. We'll do it. >> But when him he was a child working. digging sand in Cameroon, it's.

>> crazy, >> you know. Incredible. And then you you. have incredible genetics and then you. have just this fierce mindset from all. the [ __ ] that guy's been through. >> You know that that was that was another. one. So there was two fights that I was. really interested in with with John at. heavyweight once he won the title like. God bring back Francis please. I just. don't see that. >> Sort out your difference. I wish I was. running [ __ ] I feel like I could have. >> Me and him get along great. >> I just feel like I don't know. I think. sometimes it's uh the executives and the.

fighters and. >> Dana generally gets along with people, you know, like most fighters he gets. along with, but him and Francis, >> it didn't work. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I love the guy. I've never. >> I've never got had the pre the privilege. of meeting him, but he just seems very. sweet. Like a big friendly giant outside. of the cage. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> Big friendly giant. >> This episode is brought to you by the. farmer's dog. We all know ultrarocessed. food isn't good for us as humans. Why. would it be any different for our dogs?

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shipping. This offer is for new. customers only. He's a [ __ ] great. guy. >> For one, my I'm only saying from my. experiences with him, >> but as a fighter, Jesus, make it happen. Keep him around. You got to. >> It's extraordinary. gem. Yeah. >> What's more marketable than a giant man. who destroys everyone? >> He's the guy. >> Yeah. Yeah. So true. >> Drove me nuts. >> I know. I think everybody. And I think.

that's added to people's frustrations. with the Tom Aspenol fight not happening. then after as well. >> Well, that was not on the UFC's side or. on Tom's side. That was all John. Look, John's a wizard. He knows how to play. all games. And one of the games he. plays, I'm retiring. No, I'm back. But. now I'm hunting after you. >> It doesn't matter for him. He's going to. get the same amount of money. He's still. Jon Jones. Like, it's all it's all mind. [ __ ] Like, keep you guessing. And. meanwhile, John's deadlifting every day. You know what I mean? And partying.

>> He's just so wild. But it's like that. that fight would have been amazing to. see. But to me, the. >> So, that means it probably could still. happen though. >> I hope so. I I genuinely hope so. You. know, they were talking about doing it. at the White House. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then Dana said, >> Dana's like, I can't trust John to show. up and be fine. >> Which is fair. Which is fair. >> So, you got to say there's been a few. times where things went ary. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Fair enough. >> However, >> it would have be it would be great. >> And do it on a card where you have 12. other fights. That's what I say. Who. gives a [ __ ] Let's see if it happens.

If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. >> That's true. >> That's what I would be like, let's go. crazy. Let's [ __ ] go. >> I think what I I guess what would happen. is it that fight overshadows many. fights. >> Uhhuh. So if it doesn't happen, even. though the fights are amazing still, >> people are like, >> it it does, but so what I mean, you. know, you get I don't know who you would. do. Ilio Tapora versus Justin Gachi or. something like that. Something crazy. like that. >> You'd have a few other fights. It. depends on what happens this weekend. with Pereira.

>> It depends on what happens with Morab. and Cory Sanhagen. Those are two very. complicated fights. >> Beast. >> Yeah, very is a beast, man. >> Such a beast. I know, >> dude. He was talking to I forget who he. was talking to. He did an interview. Oh, he was on Mighty Mouse's podcast. >> No sauna, no co-plunge, no stretching. >> Doesn't do any of that. >> Doesn't do any of that. Just no warm-up. >> Shows up. I just show up, start to. train. Just shows up. Shows up and. [ __ ] hits the gas. >> He stays up till 1 two o'clock in the.

morning. >> Just. >> just like his whole routine is totally. contrary to everything that you've heard. before. And this is how he weight cuts. I stop eating. He just stops eating. He. stops eating on Tuesday. He just stops eating. Stops drinking. water. Keeps working out. >> Oh, >> the man's mind is a giant factor that I. think a lot of people are looking at as. cardio, which is a insane weapon. Of. course,

>> but the man's mind, the toughness, the. mental tough, that is Fort Knox. You. ain't getting in there. You ain't. getting in there. Remember that time? Who was it? He was mounted. I forget who. got him, but he got him in a mounted. guillotine and he didn't I think it. might have been Ricky Simone. And he or. it was was it was somebody else had him. and he got out and then he won the. fight. But he was he was being choked. unconscious for like two minutes. >> Yeah. Yeah. And he's like Yeah. >> And he's like kicking his legs and. moving around. He's like there's no. quitting that guy. [ __ ] zero quit. >> You have to put him out.

>> Zero quit. In the Marlin Mariah fight, he was basically out on his feet in the. first round. >> and just came back and stopped him. He's. a monster. >> He's a beast. He's a beast. >> And he keeps getting better. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, when a guy, you know, you feel. like, oh, a guy like that is so good. Look how good he is. He's better than. everybody. No, no, no, no, no. >> He's still getting better. Like he's not. done. >> He's a project. He's like, what can the. human mind force the human body to do? >> And how young is he now? >> He's like 34, I believe. So, which is in. that lightweight class. It's a little.

bit more of a problem in the heavier. weight classes, but I don't see any, like you said, his mind is. >> his mind is a [ __ ] steel trap. >> But it's funny you say that cuz I don't. I don't really have structure either. So. I said the the weight cut I do, but. that's because I came in with no. understanding of weight cut and London. Street was like, you do this. >> You look so big for 170. How the [ __ ]. did you do that? How much are you. cutting when you went to 170? >> So even like now I'm massive now. Yeah. You look like, let me guess, 220. What.

do you weigh right now? >> About Yeah, about two. Yeah, about 215. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Cuz I do it in kg. So, yeah. >> But yeah. Yeah. >> Kilogram. We never adopted. So stupid. It's a way better system. >> But yeah, it's But I've never struggled. to get down though cuz again, I was just. told I guess it's ignorance as well, but. I was just told to do these things and. it's like, okay, you do. What is it like. what you when you start like say you get. a call from the. >> UFC 8 weeks out? >> Okay. Well, how so you're not going to.

accept any twoe fights? >> No. >> No. >> Well, it depends on the fight and it. depends where I'm always training. >> But middleweight maybe you would. >> middleweight. Yeah. Middleweight. Yeah. >> You have taken some short notice. >> Yeah. Yeah. For for middleweight, which. was the first one I was the first one or. the second one I did. >> Um the last fight. Uh. >> maybe. But I I would take short notice. fight depending on where I am. >> in training. in in training. But even I. just like to have a rough idea, right? Even right now, it's like trying to get. and I'm like I'm bugging people cuz I'm.

I'm I've come from a circuit where we. fight weekends, >> right? >> Every weekend we're somewhere. >> It keeps you sharp. >> Yeah. And then this that's this is. probably the most frustrating thing for. me obviously started in the Bellator and. you're training all the time then you. have a fight and then you're training. I'm just like and a lot of my fights I I. don't get take too much damage. So I'm. like I'm ready now. like give me a week. off and I can come back and then it's. months and months I'm like who am I. fighting who's this and. >> the problem is you're a hard cell.

>> Yeah. >> You know when when people get a call. >> yeah flat dude like [ __ ]. >> I'm going to have to learn how to dance. in 6 weeks. [ __ ]. >> And that's the thing. So I'm hearing and. I I assumed wrongly that when I get to. the UFC that is going to disperse. Everyone's going to be gunning for me. M. >> like yeah I'm going to I'm going to show. everybody that this guy is is is a can. like he he only fought people that. weren't his level.

>> Just it's it's still the same I think. And obviously the more I fight the less. people are putting their hands up. I. think even um Whitaker said which I. respect to be fair. He came out I don't. know who wait somebody sent me something. but he had said like yeah I wouldn't be. interested in making that fight. >> Yeah. At this point in his career that's. just a setback waiting to happen. >> Yeah. It's not and his style is very. similar. >> Exactly. Yeah. I'm a massive fan of his. as well. Like I love his obviously he. can tie in the the wrestling way better. and just Yeah. I I love his style. >> I do too. No. And and you got to realize.

like that guy he's take he's been in it. for a long time. He had two [ __ ] wars. with Yoel Romero when Yoel Romero was. made out of metal. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That guy's son. He's. still fighting. >> Still 48 years old [ __ ] people up. looking like he's 30. >> I'd swap bodies with him in a second. Who wouldn't? Bro, when he was in here, he was he came in the studio. It was the. most amazing thing cuz Joey Diaz. translated for him. So, it was him and. Joey Diaz going back and forth and you. know, Joey's Cuban as well, of course.

And so, um, when when he was here, he. had to be 230 lbs. >> He his neck starts at the top of his. ears. >> And one of the things that he said, man, he was talking about the Cuban system. He goes, >> "You have to be a machine.". because he was talking about the system. of like you get more food if you're at a. higher caliber of athlete. So the. >> just to get more food, he's like. >> the athletes. Yeah, man. The athletes. that are the lower caliber, they eat. twice a day.

>> In his caliber, he's eaten three times a. day. >> He's like, so every day, every day they. coming for you. You have to be a. machine. And I was like, "Oh my god." And you. have to look in his eyes, man. >> Soft in the west, bro. >> Oh, we're so soft in the West. We're so. soft in the West. >> What the hell is this? >> I don't I'm not a fan of communism. I. don't believe in it, but damn, it. creates a [ __ ] beast. Alexander. Carellin, >> I mean, I don't know if you get there's.

two things you don't get that with. There's like substances. >> there's with for sure taking place and. then there's also there's a a regiment. that they have both the Cuban system and. the Russian system where they had. figured out the balance between. unbelievable hard work but technical. ability and recovery. >> They didn't go meatthead style. In. America, we went meatthead style and we. burnt a lot of dudes out. But the dudes. who survived were just the killers of. the killers. But they probably could. have made more killers like the Russians.

did if they did it more technically. >> It's the same. So again, shoots they've. been the first MMA gym in the UK. I. think like 95 97. >> I got a t-shirt. I got a London Shoe. Fighters t-shirt from 2003. >> Yeah. Crazy. >> I couldn't find it. I was going looking. for it today. Crazy. So like I said, they've been around to hook me up. Yeah. I'm going to I'm going to tell him. I'm. going to tell him. >> They've been around a long time and. obviously they've fought with every I. think they fought with every every major. competition that's ever been out. They. they've done boxing with the likes of.

like David Haye, Derek Chajor now. Um. even Dylan White did a kickboxing fight. with them. Uh you know, myself, Lee. Murray, John Haway. Um even like Carlos. was the first Czech guy before Yuri to. be in the UFC. That was them guys. They. done a lot, >> but they're the meatthead style. >> Yeah. >> They are like, >> "Yeah, everybody will. >> anything that produced Lee Murray.". >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, you got that guy in your gym.

that just the echoes of that guy's style. will permeate through that gym for. decades. >> That guy is just an angry man. And. >> he was an angry man. >> But then at the same time, you needed. somebody like because my coaches are. beasts. like you needed that kind of. militant. force to be able to manage that. >> and cope with that. And that's what my. coaches they are. They're like, "Yeah, people used to come to our gym and we're. just like, "Yeah, who's ready? And if. you don't do, I'll do it myself." That's.

one thing I always respected about them. Even with the machines, like the fitness. machines that we had to do, the scores. are crazy. Like I see people in other. gyms posting their scores. I'm like, "Is. that it?" and they're celebrating it and. I'm like we're forced to do this. >> The hell is that? >> But he'd push you but he'd also do it. himself. Like he jumping the machine. versus the climber and just smoke it. fight like five fights back to back and. then running and this and that. Like and. we're doing we have to do all of it cuz. he's doing it. >> and he's not doing it. He hasn't got a.

fight. >> That's the way you lead. >> Yeah. And he he let. >> especially with killers. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. That's the problem. >> They demand respect, >> right? And they have to know that you're. real. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. Otherwise, you're just some. pontificator on the sidelines with a. [ __ ] clipboard. >> [ __ ] off, [ __ ]. >> Which is more nowadays, like I'm seeing. a lot of like uh and to be fair, I'm a. fan of a lot of these guys, like the. fighting nerds. And again, I'm hearing. that they had I forget like a data. analyst or something that's in. >> and he does like this, you know, he. studies this and I think that's cool.

Like I feel like we we should have like. add elements of these things as well. But obviously I've just grown up by this. iron sharps iron. It does. It's. undeniable. Iron sharpens iron. And. >> you know, there's outliers. There's a. guy who will come out of a gym with. nobody and he's a monster. There's just. a few of those guys that exist in the. world. But for the most part, like if. you look at a gym like American Top. Team, for example, look at how many. animals have come out of that gym. >> So many. >> Pantoia, who I think does not get the. credit he deserves. I think Pantoia is.

one of the greatest ever. >> [ __ ] guy's a monster. when that that. Japanese cat came over from Ryzen and he. just like. >> like ragd dollled him like he had no. business and then the the Kai car France. rematch like you see the difference. between when they first fought and now. the difference between like a dominant. alltime world champion. >> people like when he's on a card like. people don't freak out. I'm like god. damn it just because he's 125 pounds get. that [ __ ] out of your head you're. watching one of the greatest ever. Yeah,

but that's the thing. That's it's the. marketability of people. This is what I. knew I had to get right as well. >> Yes. >> And a lot of I I say that to my. teammates as well. I'm like, do you know. how you're going to market yourself? No, no, just, you know, if I beat people up, it's like it doesn't always just. unfortunately it should, but it doesn't. that's not what's going to get you. If I. have to as a promotion uh owner and the. person managing everything, I'm either. going to pick you that's beating. everybody but nobody cares about or this.

guy that's, you know, pretty decent but. everyone's making noise about going to. pick that guy. So, you need to be able. to market yourself. And I I knew that. from the jump and this is before really. social media was massive massive is a is. a thing. But I said to myself, "Okay, I. need to look in how am I going to market. myself?" Cuz we don't have that much. time like on the mic. Uh the the. interviews at the time, I don't feel. like people got the recognition. People. just cared about the fight. They just. want to watch the fight. They didn't.

care what you said beforehand. Unless. you're arguing or shouting in, you know, there's there's beef. >> Unless you grab that mic and go crazy. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You got to go crazy. >> Chelson was the first guy. Yeah, he was. >> He figured it out before that. Anderson. Silva, you absolutely suck. He's the. best fighter. This is why he's on the. mic now. >> Yes, but it was perfect. >> It was perfect. >> But there was balance with that. There. was for me there was perfect balance. Like it it wasn't too far. It was it was. it was exactly what you wanted, exactly.

what you need to to market a fight and. to promote himself. >> Yes. Yes. I agree with you. But well, again, it's weird though because I think. authenticity is important when you do. that as well, though. And Conor McGregor. kind of is the next person for me that's. kind of delivered that. >> Oh, 100%. He took it to a whole another. level. >> A whole another level. Every time this. guy's on the mic, he'll say one line and. I'm like, "T-shirts, easy.". >> When Jeremy Stevens is yelling at him, he goes, "Who the [ __ ] is that guy?".

>> It's You can't beat this guy. I in my. head I'm just like, why did you even. open your mouth, bro? >> It's so funny, man. It's so funny. >> But you and you need to be able to do. that. Like I before I even had my first. fight, I would I spent hours I was a big. WWE fan. And I felt like The Rock, you know, Dwayne Johnson for out of all of them. was the best at marketing himself. He. had the the the crowd in the palm of his.

hands. every word that he said and it. was simple sayings and I was like yeah I. studied this study this like okay. >> okay what what and even like his stances. he'd come up like jump on the ropes and. put his hand up and just stand there. just like look around you know what I. mean like he just he just demanded eyes. so again I just came to okay what what. could I do what could so I was like okay. you know venom you know the snake I. relate to a snake okay I was like okay. yeah let me let me do this okay okay.

That's check. I got like I got a stance. that I can do. Okay. I need a saying. Okay. Like what can I say? Cuz again, I. used to listen to people on after fights. and I didn't hear anything they said. They're like, "Yeah, but I'm good. Yeah, I beat that guy." And I'm like, "Yeah, thank you for my sponsors.". Like, >> who who were your sponsors? Didn't hear. anything. So, I'm like, he has to be. >> like concise. I have to say specific. words and just I write this stuff down. But again, I speak to my team. And it's. like, bro, what are you guys doing? You.

need to do this kind of stuff and. understand that this is a part of your. game. You you've got 5 seconds after the. fight on the mic. >> If that what are you what are you going. to say? What message is going to land? What is going to make you memorable? And. I do things on my walk-ins as well. I. need people to remember. There's they're. watching 16 fights on the night. Why do. they remember me? Yes, my my style is. exciting. That's cool. There there's. this weird guy. He does some weird stuff. with his arms and that he's quite cool, but they're not going to remember my. name. I need other things to keep them. coming back. Oh, there's this guy. Yeah,

in the weighing he stood above this guy. He put the snake hand up and then Oh, that's the same guy that did the dance. Cuz now you're getting it from different. places. That's the guy that threw the. poke ball. Oh, uh what's his name? What's his name? Like the more times you. keep hitting them with different things. >> The more times they they're more likely. kind of really buy into you. And I think. this is why I was able to create a big. enough brand before even touching the. UFC. >> just because I paid attention to that. >> You were the one of the first guys to. make a name for yourself in Bellator.

>> because Bellator it was hard to break. out. >> There was some wild fights in Bellator. that never got recognized at all. >> How about the Eddie Alvarez, Michael. Chandler fight? >> [ __ ] crazy. >> And I feel like they those guys left a. lot of who they are there. Yeah. We got them kind of after and Chandler. is still. >> remarkably durable, but that's just a. discipline thing and a hard work thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think he's just accustomed. to like you said, he's been he's trained. a certain way his whole life. He's.

always going to have that kind of. athleticism, >> but he's, you know, 38 now. I It's like. you can only I wished he had not been in. Bellator. Look, I I'm all for. competition. I think competition's. important. I don't think there should be. a monopoly in the MMA business. I think. it's bad for the athletes. Yeah, definitely. >> I love the fact the PFL overpays people. Keep doing it. Kind of like it. Give. them a million dollar. Everybody get a. million dollar. Everybody gets a car. You get a car. I wish there was more. organizations. I I hope one FC succeeds,

you know? >> It does help. It help that helped me as. well, even in my negotiations. >> [ __ ] everything. However, >> yeah, >> there's a caliber of athlete. >> that I feel like should only be in the. UFC. >> And you're one of those guys. >> Thank you. I appreciate There's a. caliber of athlete where like I want to. see how good they really are, >> you know? Like. >> some guy like Patchy Mitch, Patchy Mix. is a beast. He's a bad [ __ ] but. so is Mario Bautista. Mario Bautista had. the perfect game plan to [ __ ] up his.

party. But. >> that dude when he was in Bellator was of. that caliber. I was like, I want to see. him over here, man. I I I personally and. obviously because I've experienced it. For me, the first time I got nervous in. an MMA fight was my first fight. >> in the UFC. >> No, my first fight ever. >> And then after that, I was like, "Oh, yeah. This is the same as when I was. fighting in the kickboxing. I'm cool. I. didn't have any I didn't get them nerves. again." The first time again since then.

was the first No, no, sorry. Weird. enough, the second fight in the UFC. against Ian Garry. Now the first fight I. don't know why I just. I don't I don't know what it was but I. was quite relaxed and then the second. fight I was like oh it something a. reality hit me of like oh you're in UFC. the people are going to demand a certain. thing from you and you got a reputation. of before of the knockouts of the of the. celebrations of the walk-ins of the this. of the that and then I just let that put. a weight on me. >> Really? >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> That's crazy that it was the second. fight. I I I I can't even explain as to. why it was the second fight and not the. first one. And then even the third. fight, I still had that kind of oh man, I'm not performing the way I want. And I. felt like I'm eager to impress. >> And I never felt like that in Bellator, but at the UFC, I'm like, I'm trying my. best. I I literally have to sit. Yeah. It's the same thing. It's the same. thing. >> Same thing. Cage, cameras, people.

>> Same thing. the same thing. >> But I just the magnitude of it, >> I don't know. I I'm I'm guessing. >> it's what we all grew up with. >> It's what everyone grows up with. It's. like this is where, like I said, there. was always question marks around my. name. Even I was jump jump knees and. this and that. Always question marks. around my name still. >> But then now I'm here. It's like, oh, actually I can these guys can. respect me now. Actually respect me now. cuz I'm here. >> Yes. >> And then I'll just like trying too hard. Trying too hard. trying too hard. The.

last fight was the first time I was. like, >> "You're back. >> I'm back.". >> And this is why I like just keep getting. me back in the cage cuz I swear to you. this that I got I'm back to where I used. to be and how I used to feel. >> It's just an issue of getting guys that. are willing to fight you that are of a. certain caliber. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Cuz you know, obviously right now you're. pretty big, so for you to get down to. 170 again would be a real problem. Are. you committed to 185 or are you No, you. open either one. >> I want 170. I can see a clear pathway. Even after my last fight, I messaged.

Hunter. and I was literally like, "Look, oh, let. me fight um it was Morales." Yeah. And I. was like, "Look, another undefeated guy. Perfect fight. Like, he's a beast. Like, I'm I'm I'm ready. Let me take him. >> then." And and I said, "What I could do. after that is in like December, I think. I said, or no, March next year." I was. like, "Yeah, give me that for November.". like March next year. usually come back to the UK. Let me. fight the winner of um Leon Edwards and.

and Pratas. >> I was like another great fight there. >> Yeah. >> And then you've got July card. Obviously. everyone's going to put their hand up to. be on that. But I said if you guys want. me to be on that again I'll fight for. whoever you want in that top range. Pick. I don't care who it is. Pick pick. somebody. I'll fight them and then I. want a title shot or you give me a title. there. Like. >> Yeah. But I'm like, I can see a clear. path to where what I want and it's just. everything seems slow, which I I did,

like I said, I didn't expect. uh coming to the UFC. I felt like. >> I think there's just too many athletes. >> There is a lot. >> I think they they have on contract more. than 500. >> Damn. >> How many athletes does the UFC have. under contract? throw that into. >> But then also they're they're I think. and you obviously I'm managed by. Paradigm um with Audi and he said he. feels like uh the Paramount deal is.

they're having to integrate that now as. well and I'm like. >> I didn't think about that but every time. Bellator cuz Bellator kept getting new. partnerships it did slow things down a. little bit. >> Oh yeah, that would make sense. So. >> yeah, that doesn't start until January, >> but obviously they're sorting out. contracts and things from now and then. they obvious have to try and align the. shows and I'm guessing obviously I don't. know but I'm just saying it just feels. even slower than before and I'm like I. was that sucks. >> Yeah. Yeah. And I'm like I just want to.

be back out there. I don't care just and. this is why I'm happy to take. >> 674. Wow. 674 fighters under contract. And they. don't have fights every week. They have. fights almost every week, but not every. week. >> That I mean, just think about that. So, you have 52 weeks. You have all these. fighters. Fighters want to fight. multiple times in a year. >> I appreciate that, but I'm MVP, man. Let's go. >> I am with you. I'm with you. I always. say that I wish I was a matchmaker, but. I don't cuz it's the hardest job.

>> Yeah, I'm sure. >> I used to talked to Joe Silva back in. the day when he did it. He [ __ ] hated. it. deal with everybody and managers and. and people flake out and people fail. drug tests like godamn it. >> And these guys, you know, what what. they're doing right now is very. difficult cuz what what Mick Maynard and. Sean Shelby are dealing with is. >> the volume is so much greater. >> Yeah, >> there's so and there's so many more. really good guys like in almost every. division like guys are coming in from. the Contender Series like that guy looks.

like a world championship caliber. fighter. >> Yeah. talented. >> talents off the charts right now and. it's because they get to watch. >> Yeah. >> You know, these are the kids that are. growing up watching Anderson Silva. They're growing up watching Jon Jones. first fight. They're growing up watching. the early Chuck Liddell fights. It's. totally different. >> They they like when they're play. fighting with their friends, they're in. stances that look right, >> you know? They know what they're doing. >> They know the names of every submission. And this is so true. >> They're calf kicking each other in the. [ __ ] schoolyard. It's a totally.

different world. Very true. >> And those kids are going to grow up and. that's going to be integrated into their. neuromuscular system. >> Yeah. And they're going to learn. There's guys coming along that are like. >> elite black belt level jiu-jitsu, elite. standup, elite wrestling, takedown. defense, cardio off the charts, and. they're 22. And you're like, "This is. nuts.". >> Now it's just about whether you can. compete, whether you can pull it off and. keep your head together on fighting. days. >> Yeah. Yeah. which is again I think is.

something that people don't speak about. enough. >> Listen, it's Aaron Pico is as talented. as they come, right? That dude is a. [ __ ] vicious boxer, incredible. wrestling, gold chip prospect from the. very. >> but Lone Murphy is another guy was not I. was saying before that this is the guy. that's not getting the credit he. deserves cuz you got all these loud. killers at 145, but you got this one. dude that does everything perfect. >> Yeah. Yeah. And he's beaten everybody. >> He's beaten everything away. >> And he doesn't take damage and he's.

clever and he's slick and he does things. and there every technique is perfect. He. doesn't and there's no fat on anything. There's no wild winging punches. Everything's tight and tell that. spinning elbow was a work of art. >> He just knew Aaron Pico's a train. He's. come bang. >> That was a crazy that was. >> But that's the difference between. someone who can compete at the highest. level accustomed to it, >> right? >> Yeah. Yeah, it's the knowing when to hit. the gas and when not to. Pico is just.

all gas, no. >> brakes. Like you said, it's like similar. to Michael Charer again. >> Just like in that rage mode all the time. and all gas, no breaks. >> You need to take your time. >> But that's a wrestler thing, too. They. always want to break people. Cuz in. wrestling, you can do that. You can have. that mentality where you're constantly. hitting the gas cuz you're not going to. get knocked out with a flying knee. >> Yeah. True, true, true. It changes. >> Yeah. Because you get that that's how. you compete. You get this mindset of I'm. going to [ __ ] dominate. I know what I. did in training for this. My gas tank's. off the charts. My aggression's off the. charts. I'm a killer. I'm going to.

dominate. I'm moving forward. I'm moving. forward. >> The problem is with a guy like Lone is. like, you think he's backing up. >> Bam. He's coming forward. >> Oh, that was amazing. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> The timing it was just like, oh. >> But Pico even stepped right into the. elbow. It was ruthless. >> It made it 10 times worse. >> Ruthless. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's h that's my. thing. the car crash effect when you. create those collision. >> So for a guy like Lauron who's not a big. marketing guy, not a big like doesn't.

say wild [ __ ] on the microphone, it just. steady professional, does his job, he. needs to do that, right? He needs like. this spectacular thing where all of a. sudden everybody goes, >> he needs to fight Alexander Vanowski. And that looks like that's what's going. to happen now because of that one. performance. >> which is I'm so happy for him. Like he's. he's a cool guy, man. I'm so happy for. him. So this is why I tell people if you. had a just a little bit of little bit of. chat, a little bit of show your. personality or something, just give me. something. >> You have that. >> No, but you know what it is. I always. say like everyone like um Demetrius.

Johnson for me is one of the greatest. like of all time. >> Of all time. >> Of all time. Another underappreciated. guy. Yeah. >> Yeah. But I feel like underappreciated. because you can't market him in the. exact same way as you'd market like a. Conor McGregor or somebody else like. that. But he's a gamer. I'm like, shed a light. on there's a massive. >> Yeah. massive community of gaming. That. industry is billion dollars deep. Market.

this guy cuz he's on he goes back home. and he's just like, >> "Yeah, he's one of them. >> He's one of those guys.". But again, we didn't see any of that. until he was kind of like. now obviously doing a lot of his. YouTube. I'm happy. I'm so happy that. he's, >> you know, is getting the. >> It's kind of when he went to one that he. started doing more of the gaming stuff. online. >> But he No, he had been doing it though. >> He had been doing it in the UFC. Yeah. Yeah. But again, it's just more I guess. >> they didn't capitalize. >> Yeah. That's what I mean. I sort of. think so certain people you have to like.

what is your thing? >> Not everybody is just the fighting. They. have things like things to kind of. release like wind down and you know what. I mean? >> Yeah. >> Find that out. He's killing everybody. anyway. So how else can we market. instead of being like ah can't market. him. He doesn't talk. He doesn't do say. anything. There must be something there. There has to be something else there we. could. >> look into. >> Well, it's it's it's interesting because. some guys their personality is no. personality. >> Yeah. >> Like Pereira. >> Yeah. >> His personality is stonefaced. >> Just stonefaced. Destroyer. Death.

machine. Here he comes. Amazon warrior. Like literal actual Amazon warrior. Like. not not a faker. His [ __ ] family. comes from a tribe of Amazon. >> But then that's what he markets though. >> Yeah. >> I guess that's what they market. But it. was because he markets. out that that walk out. >> Oh yeah, that's true. >> Bro, I do it myself. >> When he's walking out, I'm just waiting. for him like. >> That's true. >> And that's what I mean though. I mean. like that's you he you tell you're. selling your story with just something.

so simple. A very good point that I. didn't even think of that his walk out. >> His walk out was maybe the best in the. sport. >> Yeah. >> And that's what I'm trying to say. >> And the music. >> jungle music behind you. >> You just you just the walk. >> just Amazon warrior. >> It's simple. >> Everyone can relate to it. Oh yeah. >> You It's consistent. So I'm always going. to Oh, that's the guy. >> And you see kids in the audience throw. the one two. >> and like I said, I'm a Cuz I'm a big. wrestling fan. I see. It's those moments.

that everybody will remember and. everybody will do. >> Yeah. Right. When when Style Bender came. in to the Undertaker, >> bro beast. But that's what I'm trying to. say. It's those kind of things that. people just don't. >> Yeah. >> And I'm talking the fighters themselves. Obviously, I feel the UFC can do their. bit as well, but technically you're. already on the platform that's going to. show you to everybody. So then it's your. job to figure it out as well. >> Another aspect of the game, like. strength and conditioning, like all. these different things. >> Exactly. Just think about it. You're. you're professional. Figure out how to. market yourself. Yeah,

>> you are the product. >> The problem is though, it does lead to. like cringe moments or something. >> So, tell everybody it's your. personality. And some guys try and it's. like yikes. >> [ __ ]. >> You got to take a risk. You got you got. to take the risk. >> cuz if if it goes well, it goes well. >> Yeah. >> Goes well. So, like as you said, Alex. Bur, technically we wouldn't care if he. walked out like that and got knocked. out. We wouldn't give a [ __ ]. >> Yeah. But he's he's a killer. >> Yeah. That fight this weekend is very. very interesting.

>> because so here's the downside to. fighting all the time. Fighting all the. time the with your style is a very. different thing cuz you take so little. damage which is another huge element. Like I kind of would tell people. >> that if you have a kid and your kid. wants to learn martial arts and they. want to eventually be an MMA fighter, I. would say two things. Number one, wrestling. take that kid and teach him. how to wrestle because if you could just. develop takedown defense, an. understanding of grappling, at least you.

have a base from the time you're real. little. That should be your base because. it's the most important aspect of the. fight. If you can't grapple, a guy can. take you down and he can hold you down. You can't do [ __ ] about it. >> Number two, learn how to point fight. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Learn how to point fight because there's. a different thing that you guys are. doing. If you like people think of Billy. Blanks as Taibo, you got to go back and. watch Billy Blanks when he was a [ __ ]. karate wizard, dude. He was a wizard and. he was hitting people where you couldn't. hit him. You know, all the the old.

school guys were all like light on the. feet, bladed style and they had this. leapin ability that if you're used to a. guy standing in front of it's a giant. problem and you don't have the timing to. solve it. You could you could go two, three rounds deep before you start. actually landing. you can't do anything. to them. It's a giant problem. And I. would say you want to be the person. giving the other person that problem. >> Then you can learn all the other stuff, too. Learn your boxing fundamentals and. Muay Thai and knees and elbows, but but.

if they're nowhere near you. >> and you can hit them, you can close that. gap quick. You have a blitz. >> So, I mean, understanding that distance. control. >> Yes. And also the faints, the stutter. steps. change the game. >> Yes. There's so much movement in that. style of fighting that just gets lost. when people are plotting and just. teeping each other in the stomach and. kicking their legs. >> But it's funny, people always used to go. on about me and um Wonder Boy Thompson. fighting and I'd always say like it. won't be as exciting as you think. For.

us, like me and him, there'll be moments. where we're bouncing, faking, and we'll. laugh at each other cuz we saw what. would have happened if one of us went, but the crowd's like, "The [ __ ] is going. >> fight? The [ __ ] are you guys doing?". Smiling at each other. Like, they don't. get the fight that's going on. >> right. >> in the moment. I say people, it's not as. exciting. Two pluses don't always give. you that plus. >> Not always. But you still want to see. it. Of course, people always want to. never It's It's also like fighting. doesn't have to always be ultimate.

excitement. You have to like That's why. I say no standups ever. When a guy takes. a guy down, that person on the bottom. does not want to be on the bottom. They. want to be up. If they can't get up, tough [ __ ]. >> It's only five rounds. Every fight. starts and ends it up, which is a giant. giant advantage for a striker. >> cuz otherwise they wouldn't be able to. get themselves up. >> Yeah. >> So, none of that. See, it's got it's got. to be pure. It's got to be real. You. can't have like ways that a guy won only.

because the rules set it up for him to. get to a better position. >> I agree. The only the only thing that I. find slightly frustrating in those in. that element is. I don't mind the wrestling. I think. wrestling is a is a beautiful art and is. like you said, one of the most important. arts to dictate where you want the fight. to go. But if you're taking me down, try to. kill me. >> I agree. >> Try to try to finish the fight. Don't. just take me down and just. >> I agree. >> I have people like grabbing my legs and.

looking at the clock. >> Here's the thing. If they're not good. enough to kill you. >> Yeah. >> Right. What if they're good enough to. take you down and hold you down, but. then they just have to be real defensive. afterwards and they'll throw little pity. p I know. I know. >> That's the only element that I just saw. >> But here's the thing. They're not good. enough to do more. Do you know what I'm. saying? Like, but you must be though. Maybe not. Uh-uh. Maybe not. Maybe only good. enough. Like, you're so good and they're. just good enough to hold you down. But. if they've rained up and started rain.

and then you [ __ ] framed off, you got. to half guard, you got back up to your. feet, all of a sudden we're dealing with. this [ __ ] again. [ __ ] that. But if you. just stay on top and don't take any. chances, now you can't do [ __ ]. >> Yeah, I agree. It's boring as [ __ ]. >> And it's not for me, it's not even the. boring element of it. Like I still enjoy. that aspect. If I was watching, I only. enjoy that aspect because I know what. I'm looking at now. Like I'm like, "Oh, he's he's got Okay, like he's got the. he's grabbed his wrist there. Okay, I. can see what he's trying to work to. Okay, no, he didn't get it. Okay, I can. I'm still in the fight." Whereas some. people I guess the people, if you don't.

get into grappling, you're not going to. know what's happening other than they're. just lying there. So, I get it for them, but for me still, it's just like the aim. of this game is for me to beat you. And. I mean like take knock you out, put you. to sleep. So, I'm trying to show you. that I am the stronger man as a warrior. And that's not by holding you, >> right? That's not by holding you down. Holding you down to get you to position. to land his elbow and hold you down to. get this position to land his P. Yeah. But just to I completely agree. However,

>> even though I'm a fan of yours, if a. wrestler who had that boring style took. you down and held you down for three. rounds and won a decision, I'd be like, damn, >> he did it. >> Yeah, >> he did it. because he can't do it any. other way. If he can't stand up with. you, he's going to get [ __ ] up and he. can take you down anytime, why would he. ever let you up? And if losing position. is dangerous, so like if you're very. explosive and you're very good at. grappling, you're very good on the. bottom. You've gotten submissions off. the bottom. If a guy reigns up and.

starts throwing shots, but he feels like. his base is gone and he just wants to. clinch and hold on and maintain position. and he maintains position with this kind. of [ __ ] you know, on top and doing this. kind of [ __ ] Just little movements like. he's still getting away with that. He's. still doing that. >> Yeah, I agree. I just. >> because that might be his only p right. for you. He's But the thing is he's not. good enough. >> where then you have guys like Khabib. >> Khabib gets you down. You're getting. [ __ ] up. You're getting [ __ ] up in. constantly. He's talking to you. He's he creating.

that space but still pinning you. >> He's crushing your legs between these. legs and he's [ __ ] trying to choke on. you. >> That I can appreciate all day every day. I can too. But some guys aren't good. enough. >> That's They're still fighting, >> right? They're in there like they're not. good enough. There's guys at a world. class level that are not going to be. world champions, but they might be able. to beat a guy who could be a world. champion if they can do that thing. >> Yeah. Just. >> it sucks. >> I know. I know. It's hard. It's hard to. class you as a world championship.

>> fighter. Then I think about Hamzot then. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Drinkup is a perfect example of that. You got a elite grappler who dominated. the fight without with very little. damage. >> Yeah. In when I dominated it to the. point where you're you're in the worst. position you could be in in MMA. You're. in a crucifix. >> over and over again. >> Every round. >> over and over again. >> and you. >> you can't do [ __ ] about it. >> You let him just. >> you can't do [ __ ] about it. >> But so do you think that is he's worried.

about his him exploding? Because in my. head, I'm like, the fight ends if I keep. if I elbow the [ __ ] out of you right. now. >> He's worried about the chaos and Drake. is getting back to his feet. And you. know, they wanted to just win. This is. the whole thing cuz he came back to his. corner apparently. >> And this is told to me secondhand, but. I'm pretty sure it's true. Yeah. Um by a. reliable source that he was saying, "Can. I box now?" I was like, "No, no, you're. not [ __ ] B." His team was like, "Take. him down. He can't." Look, if you got. that clear of a dominance,

>> that I still agree with though as a. coach is saying no, get take him down. But I'm saying once you are in that. position, >> smash smash. >> Your whole thing is smash. >> Yeah, >> smash the [ __ ] out. What the hell? Like. >> I think they just wanted that win no. matter what, you know, cuz it's like. it's such a big deal. >> Hamzad finally got a shot at the title. Like just like what is the clearest, most intelligent? You're betting a. billion dollars on this fight. What's. the best way to victory? [ __ ] just. take him down. You can take him down.

anytime you want to. Hold him down. Punch him a few times. Make sure you're. in dominant position so you're not going. to get stood back up. If the referee. starts talking to you and telling you. got to start to little bit of this, do a. little bit of that. Fake a submission. Don't throw all your gas into it. You. know, do whatever the [ __ ] you got to. do, but get that goddamn title. >> Fair. >> right. >> And then. >> then, you know, there's going to be some. guys that he can't do that to, and. that's where things get interesting. >> Yeah. Yeah. But who who would you say. that is though? Cuz I He's that his. wrestling style is just.

>> crazy. >> Yeah. It's It's. >> So Brendan Sha had been to his training. camp. Okay. >> And he called me up. He goes He goes, "Bro, we got to talk." He goes, "I just. got back watching Hamza train." He goes, "I've never seen anything like that in. my [ __ ] life.". >> He's like, "Dude, but I'm telling you, he's mopping the floor with like. division one all-ameans, world class. grapplers, jiu-jitsu black belts. He he. goes he's mopping the floor with people. He goes, "It's nuts." He goes, "They. asked me if I wanted a spar with him." I. go He shop goes, "Fuck you.".

>> He's like, "Fuck you. I'm not going in. there.". >> He goes, he was mauling people on the. ground. He goes, "I never seen anything. like it." He goes, "It was it was. crazy." He goes, "He's so high level.". >> Yeah. Yeah. I had the privilege of going. to the gym and uh in Dubai and uh. training alongside him and I saw it for. myself and it's. >> yeah I was like. >> it's a shocking level of grappling. >> and when you can achieve that shocking. level of grappling on worldass MMA.

fighters why wouldn't you do it this is. this just my thing my take on it like if. you just want to win and make as much. money as possible. >> and keep doing that I make you should. finish guys whenever you can but if you. don't think you can and the path to. victory is grappling This is still a. sport. >> If it wasn't a sport, there'd still be. headbutts, right? Still. >> be stamps and stomps, soccer kicks, all. the wild [ __ ] that used to be. You still. be able to wear shoes. Who gives a [ __ ]. >> But it's a sport. >> So if it's a sport, we've got some.

rules. I just don't think. >> I don't think there's anything wrong. with winning by the rules. It's not my. favorite style. >> Fair, fair, fair, fair. >> My favorite style is either a knockout. artist or a submission artist. I like a. guy who just finishes everything. >> Yeah. Olive when he was. >> Yeah. when he was in his prime. >> In his prime was. >> Kenneth. >> catching triangles and darces and oh my. god he was a monster. >> He was so good. Those guys like when you. watch a guy who's like an elite world. class submission artist and the fight. goes to the ground. It's just a totally. different thing. >> You know you're in real like Fabricio.

Verdoom when he was in his prime when he. caught Fedor with that triangle. >> Bro, it does. >> Catching Fedor with a triangle is crazy. just if you know how explosive that guy. is and how fast he is and strong and. what a great grappler he is. But. Fabricio Verdoom is another guy who. doesn't get his due. When you think. about all time goats, you think about. Noggera, you think about Fedor, and you. think about Minotauro. And Fabricio. Verdum tapped them all. >> He tapped all the greats. >> All of them.

>> Tapped them. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Tapped them. All the greats. didn't just. win by a decision. >> Yeah. Didn't just hold. >> tap Fedor when Fedor was Fedor. And. people like, whoa, that's crazy. >> Fatal's a beast, >> bro. He was a monster. Stoic warrior. >> from Russia. Not no expression. >> in his ear. The first of his time. >> Oh, way ahead of his time. >> First fast of his time. >> Way ahead of his time. His ability to.

catch submissions off his back with. lightning speed. He had a lightning fast. arm bar. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. and power on the feet. >> Yeah. Yeah, >> bro. He walked down Crocop. >> Yeah, it's crazy. >> Crazy with stand up. >> Yeah. Yeah. Crocop's head kicks would be. insane. >> Every kick. >> Every kick. But like Fedor was blocking. them so intelligently, too. He was using. that high block with the knee way up. like that to catch that left kick. And. he caught it. They caught it shinto-sh. >> It was that was a crazy fight. But Fedor.

in his prime was so good, man. because. he was the first guy other than. Minotauro. Minotauro, but he was more. dangerous on the feet than Minotauro. But Minotauro on the ground was like one. of the first guys like super dangerous. off. >> Yeah. Just super super lethal guard. >> Like when he beat Bob Sap, >> that was the nuttiest fight in the. history of MMA. >> That was the nutty. He Bob Sap was 350. lbs with abs. >> I was going to say he's like he's kind. of like your your Inanu nowadays, >> babe. But way bigger and obvious.

>> Yeah. >> Way bigger but not as skilled. >> Yeah. No. No. He's gotten Yeah. Francis's improvement. >> cuz in his earlier stages I was just. like, "Yeah, he's got power but he's. technically like. >> Francis basically beat Tyson Fury in a. boxing match.". >> Crazy, right? >> Basically beat him cuz I I scored it for. him. >> I scored it for him 100%. They did. They. just could they could not let that. happen. >> He dropped Tyson Fury with a left hook. and then danced in front of him. I mean. that's that's that's skill. I mean, he. wasn't ready for Anthony Joshua because.

Anthony Joshua. >> was a different thing. It's a he's got. more one-shot knockout power took it. more serious. I know he he likes to. switch in, but again, this is where the. boxing is. If you don't have that kind. of intellect in the boxing, that. footwork and foot positioning is put. your foot on one side, you're going to. get killed. You put your foot in the. other side, you're you're safe. you can. kind of manage manage the power and see. the punches coming. But he was kept. switching stances but just putting.

leaving himself in just the wrong. positions. >> Yeah, he wasn't ready for a guy like. >> Josh wasn't ready. He wasn't ready. There was a lot of hype off the Fury. fight. >> Also, Joshua got to watch him box in the. Fury fight. See some patterns. Fury, I. think, probably took him lightly. >> Yes, I think so. >> It's one of the greatest of all time. This guy's never had a boxing match. >> At the beginning of the fight, he's. like, "Time to go to school." Like, oh, really? >> And then he probably got stunned. He. just got stunned and that was it. He's. now working. You talk to any fighter, they will tell you the worst times of. their life is when they thought that a. guy was nothing. And then in the middle. of the fight, they realized, "Oh my god,

I'm losing.". >> They took a guy lightly and they didn't. get up for the fight and then they went. in there and that dude was fired up and. ready to go. >> You know, you got this thing, you can't. take anybody lightly, though. >> No. >> Mike Tyson, Buster Douglas, another. perfect example. >> Yeah, 100%. No. No one. >> This guy was partying every day. He. >> probably Exactly. He did not take it. seriously. >> Did not take it seriously at all. You. got big the biggest respect for Bastard. Douglas on that one though. That was. >> Oh my god. It was one of the greatest. performances of any heavyweight title. fight ever. >> Yeah. To want to walk in and do that as.

well. >> The fact that that guy could do that the. whole time but only did it against Mike. Tyson is nuts because he was one of. those guys and we all know them that is. super talented and just never realizes. their full potential. Like gym, you. know, guys in the gym that like you'd. see him spar. I talk about this all the. time like I've had so many people. obviously I've got to see over the years. that are talented and again it's the. same thing but can you do it when it. counts? Can you do it when the lights. are on? Can you do it when there's. pressure and it means something to your. you money? >> Yeah. >> Can you still do it?

>> Yeah. >> That's when it counts. But I've seen. guys that are. >> there's a guy actually. >> uh and I always talk about him just. because he was super unique and weird. enough he got to the UFC for on a short. stint. uh Galore Buffondo. I don't know. if you ever remember him. He only did he. only had two fights, but he fought uh. Charlie Ward and I I call it Hadukan. He. just grabbed him and like threw his head. into the floor. >> Oh jeez. >> And it was a KO. And I don't He actually. never got the the bonus for that. I. don't know how he didn't cuz I've never.

seen anybody just throw someone's head. down. You need to watch it at some. point. >> Oh, but look. Boom. There you go. >> Oh god. And if you if you keep it going. and you see how he finishes, look, he's. like, >> "Wow, >> that dude landed hard.". >> Yeah, >> that dude landed hard. >> And if you see the finish, look at this. is how athletic this guy was. Just watch. light work. Just. >> landed. Just land a little. >> spider stance. Yeah, perfect landing. Now, I had to deal with this every day.

Yeah. And that was nothing. He's super. explosive. >> But again, he's a striker. Very weird. striker. kicks. His kicks are like his. hands. He can. for ages. Yeah. I was sparring him one. time and me and him like I'm the guy. with him when he steps in my eyes do. this and I'm like okay I have to make. sure I'm because a kick will come from. anywhere and we're sparring going back. going back and forth and I'm I'm in my. element and everything slows down for me.

and I see his head drop down. and alarm bells are going off and I'm. like. he doesn't he doesn't shoot he doesn't. go for takedowns, but I'm feeling alarm. bells going. I'm like, something's gone. wrong. I don't know why this felt this. slow. Something is wrong. And I've never. done this block in my life. And I went. like this. X block. I've never done this in my.

life. Never been taught this. But my. body said, "Throw your hands." He did. that and did a. >> cartwheel kick. >> Front flip. >> Oh jeez. >> Yeah. landed on his foot and ax kicked. me. If I didn't do that, I I'd be. sitting here in two right now. >> talking to you about the story that I. once used to do MMA and this guy split. me in half. >> He and he's front flip ax kick. >> He done a front flip ax kick. I no And. on his Instagram, I don't know if you'll.

find it, but on his Instagram there's. clips of him doing it on a bag and he. literally flips, lands on his foot, b. hits the bag and he's just standing kind. but he did it. I've blocked it now. Even. that alone, cuz I've now blocked it, you. should fall off balance. He took his. foot off and carried on sparring. Everyone in the gym was like, "What the. [ __ ] was that? What the hell was that?". I never even thought anyone could do. that. Like, he's another person that in. the cage, he never showed this stuff.

I've seen him someone on a single leg. and he's run up the cage and slipped up. the single leg and kicked off the cage. and landed behind the person and started. I'm always when I talk about this it. sounds like I'm exaggerating. He used to. do stuff that I've ne it's only in games. and this is why everyone. >> watching him do that flip I believe. every word you're saying. >> he's because that was crazy. The landing. was crazy. >> Yeah. Like like it was like it's not. like just. >> No, he landed softly on one knee.

Yeah, >> he was insane, but just never showed it. >> Wow. >> Yeah, he's like just he he teaches and. stuff now, but he just. >> And it's a shame, man. He was a fun. character. Like I said, amazing person. to train with because he made me better. because he's and he's got the few people. that in the gym that could actually kick. me in the head and. >> Wow. >> and catch me cuz I usually I'm I'm good. at seeing. I got good eyes and he's just. Yeah. It was just something else. >> Crazy that you knew it. Like you had. intuition. I don't know what happened,

but said if you don't do this, you're. going to die today. >> Wow. Wow. That's crazy that you. recognized that of all movements. >> Yeah. But again, his cuz like he never. shoots. He's a striker. He was sprawling. and start doing his jiu-jitsu from. there. Never really shoots. And he just. went like this. And I'm like, "What's. going on here? There's. I I don't feel like sprawling. Something's wrong, but I don't feel like. sprawling. here.

>> Oh, here you go. Here you go. >> Oh my god. He does one. He does one and. he land He does one and he lands it. >> That's crazy. That is so crazy. >> Imagine doing that during a sparring. >> It doesn't make sense. >> And he's he's I'm talking he's hitting. the bag. Boom. Look, >> that's crazy. >> And I tell people people feel like you n. you're talking rubbish. You can hear. that. [Laughter]. If that hit me, >> that is so wild.

>> And I wish he was able to show this. >> explosion you have to have to pull that. off. >> The amount of force you generate. >> Yeah. And who would see that coming? >> I don't I still don't to this day know. how I saw it coming, but. >> wow. >> If he did that, and again, he goes into. he went into these fights and he would. it would be relatively basic. it would he wouldn't show all of this. kind of stuff. >> So, he would tighten up in fights. >> Yeah, he would just tighten up a little.

bit. He just wouldn't express himself in. the same way. >> Did anybody at that time work with like. a mental coach? >> Uh, no. Not I wouldn't from our gym. The. only person I I know did it from our gym. was actually Alex Reed and but he is a. weird character anyway. >> Funny guy, lovely guy. Um, but he used. to have like therapists come and do this. kind of stuff. And at the time he I feel. like I didn't care for it because he. just made it seem lame. Like.

it's just cuz it was from him. But I. understand more so as over my time the. importance of the mental aspect of. things as well. >> Maybe. >> if someone could explain to him or if he. could have a conversation about what. goes wrong when he competes. Yeah. like. what what are the thought process when. he competes and what could be done. different. >> to change that thought like to combat. them when they those thoughts come up. yeah to have a tool. >> have a mental toolbox where you go no no. no no. >> we're not going to entertain this kind. of negativity we're going to stay.

positive we're going to stay zen you. know the most important things don't. ever give in anxiety don't let it get to. you don't let it f you positive you're. breathing you're moving you're a killer. keep moving and and just have someone. with him maybe initially to coach him. through those movements. >> I wish there was some again but again. also maybe the the gym that he's in with. us at London Shoot. That's that was. that's not a thing. It's we beast like. we're just going to and the thing is he. was he he still look amazing up until.

the fight. He'd get to the fight and. you'd be like, "Bro, I can't wait for. people to see this, >> right?". >> And he'd get there and you're like, "What are you doing, man?". >> Yeah. >> And it was just it was frustrating cuz. he's still super he was still super. talented. He's still, you know, he won. one, I think he lost the next one and. then that was it. Um, but even his. previous fights before that, he's got. some exceptional fights, but just. >> not what he's capable of doing. >> I've never seen what I've seen in the. gym. on stage. >> Wow. >> Never seen. And he still got signed to. the UFC just cuz he was still talented,

but and obviously somebody saw his. talent was like, "Yeah, I want that.". But that and nobody's ever seen what. I've seen this guy do. And all of our. teammates are like, >> "Oh, if you go seen that this Yeah. Everybody would be throwing money at. this guy. Just make sure he's on the. next card.". >> It's crazy. >> Yeah. >> It's really crazy. >> Yeah. >> Because it's it it seems to be like that. in almost every sport. >> Yeah. >> But in fighting in particular, >> because it's the biggest mental hurdle, >> you know, there's there's no team to. fall back on. There's no I guess we lost.

tonight, boys. No, you got [ __ ] up. >> in front of the whole world. And that's. the sport that you're in. You're in the. sport with the highest highs and the. lowest lows. >> So that pressure is just it's. unexplainable to the average person. >> Yeah. I you can't explain it really. This is why I try my best to. focus on the element of fun cuz I feel. like when I'm in when I'm dancing, smiling, laughing, joking, everything.

slows down and everything's enjoyable. There's no stress. And anytime I feel. slightly stressed, you might see me. dance, which is interesting because. people just think I'm just doing it for. the other person to mock the other. person. >> Mhm. >> And sometimes it's just a just stay. chill, man. You're here. You're here. Like, you don't need to do anything more. than this. >> Right. >> If I feel like a little bit like, oh, that was a bit, and my mind starts. going, no, no, no, no. Let's shake it. off. Get into this, get into your mode.

again, and then go back to enjoying. yourself. That's my But I know some. people need to be in this angry state. and just, you know, psych themselves. into it. And I don't even need to be. angry at my opponent. >> And I think that comes from the fact. that I used to have to fight my. siblings. >> It's never it's not based on anger. I. love them. >> Like, but my dad is, you say like that's. not your sibling on the map. But. straight afterwards, make sure you pick. that person up. Make sure they're good. >> And again, my brother would beat me up, other brother beat me up, my sister.

would beat me up. everybody. But I still had love for. them. So I don't I never needed anger. >> to thing and and the fact that my family. did this thing and even my nephews and. stuff now we still they still it's. generational just something that keeps. us all together and we're so close. It's not based on being angry, just. based on learning something, enjoying. something, and doing it with people that. you love. >> Mhm. >> So I can that's why I can make it fun. Everyone everyone loves this whole like. tense like and I don't.

>> I think what a lot of people don't. understand too is the hardest part of it. is the day of the fight. >> It's not the fight once a fight starts. happening you're there. You're in it and. it's not scary. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Unless you're you know unless you're. getting [ __ ] up. >> You know when you're getting [ __ ] up. and you know like the end is near. >> There's like like you want to see. ultimate bravery. >> Cleo Roundtree in the last round with. >> Pereira. when Pereira is putting it on. him. That's ultimate bravery because he.

knows he's getting [ __ ] up. He knows. he doesn't have much time. There's. nowhere out. His skill set is all in. stand up. I mean, he he can take guys to. the ground, but at this point, that's. not going to happen. And his face is. broken up and Pereira is doing that. Cobra thing where he gets Cobra style. He leans back and slams in. >> It was terrifying. But that's that that. kind of bravery in front of the whole. world. A lot of people, they're not sure. if they have that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And so there's just that the pressure of. that in front of the whole world like. that. >> So maybe like they're in there like just.

do enough. Just do enough. >> Exactly. They're scared. >> which shrinks you. >> And sometimes super duper talented. people are the most scared. >> because it kind of came too easy for. them. There's a thing about super duper. talented people that for some reason. like that gift comes with a curse. >> and that curse is that it came to you. too easily. So you never really. developed the grind. Yeah. The real will. and drive to like overcome just make. these little tiny wins every day to pile.

onto a skill set. You're just a. lightning bolt, you know? You're a. lightning bolt. And then, you know, when. it's time to actually fight, you're. like, >> you don't know if you've been tested. You don't know who you are yet. >> Yeah. Yeah. I think I get that a lot. though as in like people always like. he's just naturally talented. >> And only when I tell people that I used. to get my ass handed to me. >> But this is the thing that I've always. said. Guys who grow up with brothers, especially older brothers who can kick. their ass, they're ready to fight at all. times because they're fighting in their. [ __ ] house.

>> They're ready to fight with guys who can. beat them up their whole life. >> Just that alone like sets you up for. competition in a different way than. someone like I grew up with my sister. We didn't fight. >> It's like nobody beat me up at home. It's totally different cuz you're you're. accustomed to being around hostile males. who are dominating you. >> Yeah. Was it older or younger though? >> Younger sister. >> Okay. Yeah. Because my older sister. would still beat me out. >> My sister never got into martial arts. I. was the only one in the family got into. it. >> Okay. Okay. Okay. >> But if I did, if I grew up with a bunch.

of brothers, I'm sure we'd be beating. the [ __ ] out of each other. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, we weird enough. If we. had to do it, >> that's one thing. Again, he'd always. say, "You can't. This is not for out. here. This is for in there. If you got. an issue, you verbalize it. And if you. still have an issue, we can sort it out. in there." But yeah, I'd be annoyed at. my We'd have fights every now and again, but nothing crazy. >> But it's just the accustom being. accustomed to just constant back and. forth. How about [ __ ] you? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's like it's in your house. It's in.

your house. It's. >> I'm I was the windup. >> Oh, yeah. >> But I couldn't fight, so I had I had to. do it some other way. I just [ __ ] Yeah. Talk some [ __ ] I mean, I'm. >> You also have to be a little tougher. because you're the smaller one. >> Yeah. >> That's That's part of the thing. You. know. >> what's crazy about Jon Jones is his his. brother. >> he's got two older brothers now. >> Well, I think. >> one of them is younger. Isn't Chandler. younger? >> But they're all beasts. >> Yeah, of course you know. >> Yeah. So, you've grown up in a house of. beasts. Like you you better you better.

be ready for some hostility. >> You got to be ready for some aggression. There's like there's a giant benefit of. that as in far as as far as mindset. because the mindset you're accustomed to. hostility. I mean all of his brothers. are super freaks just giant athletes. >> and so you know he's in this house with. highly competitive males his whole life. So you're totally accustomed to. competition whereas with some people. competition is like super overwhelming.

and it's there it's a test you don't. want to take. you almost don't want to. find out if you're good enough. I think. school even the school system has like. they slowly over the years they slowly. taken out certain things that allows. challenges people in a way that gives. them that gift of. >> being competitive and especially in the. UK I don't I'm not sure about in the. states but in the UK. >> we they they changed the rules this was. just after I would have left to um not. allowed to pick teams because you know.

>> cuz then people feel bad if they don't. pick. >> I'm like if you're [ __ ] I'm not picking. you get better at get This is real life. Like. >> that's how it works in real life. And. that that bad feeling of getting picked. last. >> Lionel Richie was talking about that. yesterday. >> Oh, serious. >> Yes. The Lion Richie before he was in a. band, it was always like he was the last. one to get picked for this. He was the. last one. He was talking about that. openly. But look, that's what created. Lionel Richie. >> 100%. And again, I think we again over. there. I'm not sure here, but we model. Molly Molly Cuddle like. >> Yes. the kids and then they think like.

they you surround them in cotton wool. and then the real life hits them and. they're just like what? >> It's the opposite of Yo Romero. >> Yeah, exact. >> It's the opposite. It's the opposite of. I think I was talking to it with my um. my brother as well earlier about how. they say was it I forget the saying it's. like tough men create good times. Good. times and like the whole cycle of that. and it's. >> I it's it's very true though. We're. creating too much good times for people. and everybody's complaining about.

everything. >> Exactly. When things are really good, the problem is whatever is bad, even. mildly becomes a giant thing. Then. you're dealing with like. microaggressions at work and like people. get crazy. They look for all kinds of. grievances everywhere they go. >> When you're when you are involved in. like hard competition, you're not. interested in any of that stuff at all. >> Cuz it's just a giant distraction. The. real thing is so difficult. And that's. why I think even though it's. uncomfortable for kids, I think like.

wrestling in high school, any kind of. competitive sports in high school, martial arts, especially% I've been. advocate for ages. >> Valuable for you. >> for ages. I've been saying this like. just. >> it's okay to lose. >> It's okay to lose and. >> it's actually good for you. >> It's very good for you and you need to. learn this kind of stuff. Like I said, as soon as you as soon as they're out of. your care, they have to experience that. anyway. You can't you're not you're and. I used to do this even in um when I was. teaching. >> We're teaching a jab or some teaching a. jab and we're doing slipping drills. >> and you're jabbing like this. I was.

like, you're not helping anybody by. jabbing away from their face because now. this guy thinks he's amazing at slipping. punches, >> right? >> And then we make him spar and he's like. douche douche. the [ __ ] Move your [ __ ] head. I'll. do what I usually do. She's like, >> so I'm like, it's better that you hit. them in the gym so then when they go out. into the real world or they go into a. competition and whatever, they can. actually they're actually good at these. drills that I'm giving you.

>> Not you're not helping by trying to be. helpful. >> Yes. >> You don't have to hit hard, but be. accurate. Yes. >> Get them used to it and then slowly. speed up. Yeah. And then and. >> bro, I say this all the time, but it's. exactly the same thing. People need to. go through those actual trials and. tribulations in certain areas so that. then they can be ready for it later on. >> 100%. And this idea of protecting them. and every gets everybody gets a. participation trophy. >> That's so bad for it's that feeling of. bad from losing is beneficial.

>> It's just like the feeling of being. tired after you work out. That's how you. get in shape. >> It's all good for you. >> Exactly. It's all good for you. >> You're getting into a emotional shape. But this is why I feel a lot of people. are trying to take shortcuts for. everything. Nobody really wants to do. the hard work. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Nobody wants to do the. the the the hard work and and I get it. if it's if you if it's really excessive. You let you get get to a certain point. and it's like, okay, you need to at. least some help to get to a certain. point to then work out. But you need to. work. >> You need to work and it's good for your.

brain. Your brain is we have. >> for whatever reason a whole series of. human reward systems that are built into. our brains from the times that we were. all living in tribes thousands and. thousands of years ago. And in this. brain, it requires tasks. There's. things. It's like enforced in your brain. that if you go out and you make. arrowheads and you hunt the deer, you. have food. Your family survives. So, you. have task. So, they're whittling the. stick and you're you're into it. And you. better be [ __ ] into it because if.

you're not into it, you're not going to. eat. >> So if you have a life where there's none. of those things and you're sitting there. in front of Netflix, you're depressed. Of course you're. depressed. Your body is not getting any. of the stuff that it needs. Your mind. isn't getting any of the tasks that it. needs. >> Someone was telling me like it's the was. it the reptilian mind set that looks for. dangers, seeks dangers because we're not. in a society that has those dangers. We. look at danger. Our dangers are now this. person looked at me funny or this person. back. >> or your even worse your phone.

>> Your phone. Yeah. It's even it's even. easier now. Yeah. >> People are commenting on you, oh the. haters maybe. >> Yeah. I to be fair it's funny the first. time this was still earlier. So like my. comments were from YouTube initially. I. had an Instagram but I didn't really use. it like that. So after my first fight I. was super pumped. I'm like, cuz like I. said to you, I was so nervous after my. first fight. And I always say, I always. say, look, if you watch, all of my. walkouts have been like, "Yeah, vibes.

Yeah, yeah, I'm just happy to be here.". My first fight, I was like this. I was dying inside, Joel. Just like. what? In my head, I literally I was. like, why did I decide to do this? I was. like, why am I here? What the what? I was. stressed. The whole walk was the most. the longest walk and you'd never seen me. so tense. And then the second I got in. there and the bell rang, I was like, "Oh, yeah. Same thing." Okay. Then I.

started to feel myself and you know the. vibe all like my energy start like the. MVP that we obviously come to know now. I came out. and that was for me that was just like. that was great. But in terms of uh I. just lost R. Go ahead. >> You lost what you're talking about? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> No worries. It happens all the time. So, but that was interesting that then the. second fight was the one that really. overwhelmed you. >> Mhm. That was in the second fight in the.

in the UFC overwhelmed me. >> But so the first fight you ever had was. when you walked out. >> That's when I walked out. >> The first fight you ever had? >> So that was me against it was me versus. No, not UFC. Me versus uh Dishman. and I. just walked out and seriously I just had. nothing but fear inside me. >> And what kind of what what kind of an. athlete was he? What did he do? >> Um uh I'm not sure he was a kickboxer or. something. Didn't seem like his first. fight. We had I had like I think three. pull outs before.

I got to that fight. Like probably like. the three weeks before. >> three different people and at the at. that level it happens all the time. >> Yeah. And I had fights online. So my. coach was like, "Can you are you able to. take these down?" I'm like, "They. randomly filmed from so many random. people.". >> Yeah. >> So like I I wouldn't even know how to. where to begin to find out to try and. get them taken down. So I just if. anybody did research, they would see. that I've got. >> I had like a 720 kick.

>> Um so it made sense why people was. pulling out. For people that don't. understand what that means, that's not a. 360. degree kick. It's a. >> This is one of them. This was even the. first time I did it. >> Where is it? >> Yes. Yes. >> Is it coming? >> It'll be after this. A little bit. further. >> Okay. Yeah.

>> Okay. It's going to be Yeah, I said just. before this. Just before this. [Laughter]. That's crazy. That's such a crazy kick. That dude is. sitting there going, "How the [ __ ] did. he hit me with that?" He put his hands. on his knees and everything. Like, how. the [ __ ] did he pull that off? >> So, I understand why like people would. look at that and be like, "No, no, no. Let's Yeah. Yeah. But this guy stepped. in." Uh, and yeah, like I just I felt so.

bad negative going forward walking in, but then once I was in there, but yeah, if you see the walk out, >> oh, this one doesn't. But even even how. I'm even here, >> I'm super tensed. >> Like it was only until I started. bouncing that it was even a thing. >> What was the thing that was bothering. you the most about doing this? Just just. my decision like why did I do this? I. don't know specifically.

>> Oh, but once you got loose. >> once I Yeah, once I got in there I was. like, "Oh, cool.". >> He had an obvious game plan. >> Yeah. Yeah. He was trying to take me. down. >> Yeah. >> He wasn't strong, so I was like, "Yeah, just push off like felt I was feeling. good.". >> And I think after he felt my strength, he was like, "Okay." Kind of stood back. >> That style's such a problem. >> It's such a problem. I'm watching you. move here and I'm thinking like what do. you do? Oh, you can't do anything. You. can't do anything cuz he's so far away. from you and you like that when you try.

to close a distance on him. >> and or when rather he tries to close a. distance on you and he just can't. He. just can't get close. Like look at that. That's just nuts. That's a terrible. puzzle to try to solve in real life. >> Yeah. >> Wow. Look at that dive. That's pretty. good though. You got a hold of your. ankle. I mean, that's that shows you how much. he wanted that take down. >> Yep. Until this happens. >> Oh boy. The best part is just the standing.

there. That's amazing. Look at this. Is. amazing. That is amazing. That's the. best not walkoff KO ever, right? That's. a standoff KO. Like you real That's. crazy. You didn't even look at him. >> That's amazing. It's funny when I when people ask me. like why did you stand there? Like what. if he just came back? I was like I. landed the kick. >> and I stood still and I was thinking he. might come back. So I going to spin the. other way and land another kick. That. was that was the game. And then when he.

just the referee stepped in, I was like. perfect. Yeah, >> this looks good. This looks good. >> It did look good. It looks. >> the thing I went Okay, that's where I. remember I was going. I went crazy viral. for that. Everyone's like, "Who's this. guy?" like. >> and I was I was like because of the. relief that I had because of how tense I. was. I was like oh my god like I that. was for me ticking the box like I can. actually do this. I can actually make a. career of this cuz. >> I wasn't sure. >> and got home what did you jump online.

like I want to I want to see like I'm. seeing a video like crazy thousands of. like comments and this and that like. okay yeah maybe the next comment maybe. the next one. Nope. Yeah, people don't like me. >> They didn't like you for that video. >> I felt like I had murdered someone's. child. >> for that video. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> It just that just shows you why you. shouldn't read comments. >> No, 100%. >> Cuz you're only getting the opinions of. the dumbest [ __ ] alive.

>> If you just saw that. >> So, let me tell you my thought when I. saw that cuz when that clip went viral, I went finally. >> like this is proof of what I've been. saying for a long time. like they're. they have a different thing. Like the. really elite point fighters have a. totally different thing and you can't. even get close to hitting them. And. we're seeing that now. >> That was the beginning of it, man. >> Because even though Raymond had really. good success in glory, >> he did had great success in glory, but. it was different, right? Cuz you're in a.

small ring. It's roped off and he wasn't. accustomed to the leg kicks yet. He was. he had a he had that one spectacular. jumping side kick spin back kick to the. face. >> Oh, he he nearly hit he nearly hit me. one of those. He he was very famous for. his double back kicks. >> Oh my god. >> And then every now and again he would. hook it and it was just like he's he's. knocked people out in the points game. for everyone seen it like. >> and I remember the I think it was the. first time I fought him and I was young. but I had a reputation. He's the He was.

the guy like over in America that had a. reput reputation and we know we've we've. collided. Um I was like I don't care who. this guy is, man. I'm just I was feeling. myself. I was killing everybody for. ages. I remember faking like moving moving. moving around moving around faking. faking. Got him in the corner. I was. like oh perfect. Boom. Blitz. Same. thing. I was like something's off. Boom. Did this. p. But both normally the first kick is. light. both stamps. I was like, "Shit.".

Not only was that fast, but that was. powerful as well. And that just got into. my head. It threw me threw me right off. I didn't want to commit to any of my my. strikes. And it just it just from the. first from the first uh moment he he let. that go, I was just like, "Yeah, that. >> he was very dangerous, >> dangerous, >> very dangerous, >> dangerous, dangerous." And he was. another guy that like, you know, proved. that point that this is a completely. different skill set. >> And if you don't know how to deal with.

that, you're in real. They took the. elite guys. It took like the Nikki. Holskins and the Joseph Valinis, those. guys to figures. >> Nikki was beast. >> Yeah. Just chop the legs. And Nikki was. so technical. Everything was tight. Hands up high. Chop the leg. >> He was a beast. >> Yeah. Chopping the legs, man, is a. totally different ball game. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> Soon as the legs start getting chopped, you like. >> it's hard. You can't bounce anymore. But. that's the thing. It's weird cuz I. started to utilize that as a way to. win fights. Weird. Not obviously taking.

the leg kicks, but only giving you that. option. >> So everyone's like, "Yeah, but that's an. awkward style." I was like, "Yeah, but. when I stand in front of you like that, you don't think to do a punch cuz I I. look I feel way too far away. So you're. not doing a punch. You're not The only. thing you have is what's in front of you. is a kick. So, it's like I got used to. timing kicks as you're as you're kicking. collision going in or just just pulling. just off and then putting my foot in. slightly deeper and then just pulling. off and putting my foot in slightly. deeper. Now I know I can pull this.

trigger when I'm ready. >> and you're you're getting more and more. demoralized because you're not landing. You're throwing the kick swinging around. like a. >> and there's only one thing available. >> and there's only one thing available. >> So I have to keep pressing that same. button, >> right? And the idea of you shooting on. >> it's it feels far. >> Yeah. Too far. feels very far. >> Well, that's the Hamzot thing. It's like. Hamzot shoots from the middle of the. [ __ ] octagon. >> That That guy's got a crazy shot. That. shot he hit Whitaker with and the one he. would with uh. >> who is it? Oh, the leech when he picked.

up the leech. He picked him up, carried. him over to. >> Dana White. Yeah. >> And it's like I kill everybody like whoa. this is nuts. He was another guy. They're like, "How the [ __ ] are you. making 170?". >> Yeah. Yeah. He's a big He's a big boy. >> When I first met him, I was like, "What. are you talking about? You know, 170.". >> Yeah. Yeah. big boy. >> I [ __ ] hate the weight cutting. I. hate it. I hate it with a passion. I. hate it more than anything in the sport. I think it should be eliminated, but. it's too late. >> Yeah. >> I don't think I think people should get. down to a healthy weight and fight at. the healthiest weight, whatever the hell. that is.

>> Do you think there would be a way to. combat that? >> Not because obviously in boxing, they. got the you have to weigh in multiple. times. No. >> Well, some fighters make you do that. Like Javvante Davis, he made uh Ryan. Garcia do that. Wanted to make sure that. Brian Garcia didn't rehydrate. >> Mayweather did that to Canelo, too. It's. just a G move. It's very. >> small. That's when you're when you're. the aside. >> You're the smaller, you're the aside. Yeah, I'll fight you, but you got away. 43 when you get in that [ __ ] ring, [ __ ]. >> Guys will take that fight for that, you.

know, big paycheck. But it's not a good. move, you know. >> Um, but I just think that it's legalized. cheating. >> I just think that it's cheating. You're. not. Look, if you're a 155 lb champion, but you weigh 190 lbs. That's kind of. crazy. That's kind of crazy. >> I agree. And if I didn't have the weight. cut, cuz if you don't join in now, you're fighting monsters. >> That's true. But they would have to. fight monsters, too. Everybody would. have to fight a person that weighs what. they actually weigh. >> No, I I agree with that. But I'm just. saying with the fact that people are.

weight cutting, when I got to this. arena, I'd prefer to just have thought. >> what I weighed at. >> Yes. But because everyone's weight. cutting, I was like, you have to you. have to do it. >> because you look like. >> when you were fighting at 170, for. people that understand, I'm short, that's 30 lbs less than me. That's. crazy. >> That's crazy. Like that's just a giant. advantage that you can't give up. And. when you're doing that across every. single weight class and every single.

world championship, the last guy that I. know that didn't cut weight was Frankie. Edgar when he was 155 lb champ. When. Frankie Edgar was a 155 lb champ, he. weighed 155 and he moved like a ghost. He was all over the place. He was fast. as [ __ ] He had great endurance. >> His his recovery was incredible cuz he. could take a great shot cuz he wasn't. dehydrated like everybody else was. >> That's the thing. I actually feel great. at middleweight. >> Yeah, >> you definitely have the size for it. >> Yeah, I I'm I'm naturally that way. But. it's weird though because people's body.

types because they are cutting, they're. still slightly stock. not necessarily as. frame-wise as big as me, but they're. just slightly stockier. And obviously, as you say, the guys that will want to. come in and just go, "Yeah, >> they just want to clinch and get you. down." It's a giant advantage. >> It's an advantage if they're going to be. that much heavier than me as well. Moving people like even when um. >> uh in my last fight. when I got taken down in the in that in. that last round. trying to uh against Caner trying to.

move him. I was just like, Jesus is. >> Caner is huge. He's a big He's a big. boy. >> He's one of the only guys that's got KOs. in three different weight classes. >> I know from heavyweight, >> heavyweight, light heavyweight, and. middleweight. >> Yeah. Beast. >> He's huge for 185. But it's another. perfect example. And I think, look, there's something to be said for the. ritual of doing it for a lot of. fighters. It means a lot. And you could. choose to cut less so that you're more. healthy the day of the fight. But. everyone kind of concedes you have to. cut something. >> And I just don't think that's smart. 24.

hours before a fight in a cage. >> Yeah. >> Why would you deplete your body. purposely? Because it's basically like. getting drunk. >> Yeah. >> Really is like you're dehydrating the. [ __ ] out of your body. >> Seeing people just look look a mess. >> and you only have 3, five, 40 hours to. rehydrate between the weigh-ins and the. time you're actually going to fight. If. you're lucky of 40 hours, that's not. enough time. >> Yeah, I I I can do it. I don't care to. do it. I can do it. I just I agree with. you and I just it would if everybody if.

everybody was like, "Yeah, okay, let's. all just do it at our weights or. >> Well, imagine if people did dehydrate. and rehydrated and we started calling it. cheating.". >> You know what I mean? I mean, it would. be if people got caught and they looked. at it the same way people look at people. getting caught with steroids. >> Fair. Fair. Fair. >> Because there's the reality is right now. you can't do it because of the weight. class limitations. There's too many. weight classes where like. >> where you're at. So 85 to 205, that's. nuts. That's 20 lb. That's so. >> And for maybe people who've never.

grappled, they don't know what that. means or never been punched, they don't. know what that means, but that's a giant. amount of [ __ ] horsepower and gravity. on top of you. >> And so if you're if you've got weight. classes at a reasonable. space, like I feel like 10 lbs is good. I feel like every 10 pounds you go 45, 55, 65, 75. And if you're in between, you either add muscle or you lose. weight. You stop lifting as much weights. and do more cardio. You'll get down to.

that right, but that's what you are, what you actually are. And if we did. that, >> I there would have to be some sort of a. hydration thing where they just show up. and weigh you. >> Like, you know, like people show up and. drug test you now, like drug free sport, they'll just knock on your door. Hey, Venom, what's up? >> Can you pee in this? >> Let's uh let's talk. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That that makes sense. to me. >> Yeah. Just show up. What do you weigh? Get on the scale. And then you get on. scale. 190. >> Bro, you were a bantamweight. This is. crazy cuz there's dudes that are out.

there doing that. >> Oh, no. 100%. >> We always talk about Glacon TBO. When. Glacon TBA was 155 pounders, bro, he. looked like a bodybuilder. >> He looked like he weighed 200 lb when he. got into the cage. It was nuts, man. >> The rehydration. I've seen people cut. ridiculous amounts. And then, yeah, like. you said, the way they rehydrate, >> it's terri, but it's also a lie. You're. not 155 pounds, you're 200 lb. Like. that's what you actually weigh. And I. understand why you do it and I. understand why everybody does it. But. >> there's got to be a better way. Like.

this is. >> the worst I ever saw was Travis Lutter. when he fought Anderson Silva. >> I don't remember that one. >> He lost. But he had Anderson down. Travis Lutter was an elite black belt. and he was in the Ultimate Fighter. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Wins the Ultimate Fighter. I mean, dominates everybody. Dominates people on. the ground. Everybody I talked to. trained with him was like, "This guy's. on a whole another level as far as. jiu-jitsu.". >> Yeah. >> And um the day of the weigh in, he can't. make the weight, man. And he's he's so. dehydrated that his lips are cracked. >> And he's not walking to the scale. He's.

shuffling. >> He's just And I'm watching him and he. missed the first time and then this is. like one of the second or third time. that he tried to make weight and he. eventually didn't make weight. So even. if he beat Anderson, he wouldn't have. won the title. Yeah, >> but he had him down and he was on top of. him in the beginning of the round. And. >> for anybody that's ever rolled with. Travis, if he was healthy and he has you. down on the ground, like that's you're. in you're fucksville. >> That guy's good. He was really good. But. it was just the weight was way too much. >> He was just drained and then 24 hours.

later, he's supposed to fight one of the. greatest fighters of all time. >> And it depletes your your the liquid. around your your brain as well. So. taking shots, you're not going to take. it as well. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Yeah. It's it's a lot. Yeah, I agree. >> You're tired. Your endurance sucks. Everything's all [ __ ] up. >> Everything's all [ __ ] up. >> But it's what I get down very close to. my weight cuz I on fight week I'm very. low. >> Like what do you weigh if you're. fighting 185? What are you weighing. fight? >> 185 is easier though. So 190.

>> Oh, that's great. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like I I don't. >> What about 170? When you're at 170? >> I get down to probably about. 182 183. >> Not that bad. Not that bad. And then cut. and then cut down from there. >> That's not that bad. >> Yeah. I don't I don't again I don't like. to overstress myself. >> Pereira weighed in at 185 and fought at. 220. >> Massive. >> Fought at 220. >> Yeah. >> Weighed in at 85, fought at 220. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like you said, that's that's. a lot.

>> That's insane. >> That's a lot. >> That's insane. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> That's so much [ __ ] weight. And what. does that do to you? >> Yeah. I've seen people I can't even. remember what fire is. is in Bellator. and his he was banging the sauna to get. out and his coach was holding the door. >> Oh god. >> Like you need five more minutes. >> And the guy is kicking the door like. he's like I'm never doing that. I don't. ever want to feel like that. >> That's so crazy. So many guys black out. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I've seen people passing out and stuff.

Yeah. >> Brian Ortega was just uh in an interview. talking about that. He essentially like. almost like what how did he describe it? It was like 30 minutes where he was like. in real trouble. >> Oh. >> For his last weight cut. Yeah. He's. like, it's just he just got really. wrecked. People have blacked out before. >> Who's the lady that fell off the stage? Fell off the scales, wasn't it? >> She she stepped back off the scales and. then just her legs just went. >> Oh, I don't remember. 30 minute coma. >> Oh, sugar.

>> Due to his weight cut for Almaine. Sterling. Holy [ __ ]. >> But he miss he keeps Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. This is It's too much for I don't know. why. Why doesn't he just go up? >> Well, that's the problem is the guys at. 55 are jacked. I think he just he dialed. in his diet, though. He looks a lot. thinner now. Like he showed pull up some. of those photos he's got on his. Instagram. He's been taking photos. lately of like he just he realized like. he can never do that again. So, he's. lost a lot of body fat. >> Oh, that's good. That's good. >> I think sometimes it is the the. discipline of it. >> as well. Look at him. Oh, yeah. Look at. him now. Way.

leaner. Big difference. That's where he. has done that in ages. >> Yeah. That's where he needs to be. >> 100%. >> You know, he likes to live that good. life. >> So, same even when you said about like. having like random weight checks, it. make me consider certain burgers. sometimes. >> Yeah. But they would have to give you an. out of shape clause, >> you know, like give you like 10 15. pounds in between fights, but then once. you start training, they should be able. to randomly show up during those six. weeks and go, "All right, Michael, get. on the scale. 174. Okay, good. Good to.

go. Good to go. We're inside of 6 lb cuz. what you actually cut, what you're. saying at 85 is perfect in my opinion. That's nothing. >> I don't I don't go I don't like to be. >> 5 lbs is just a good weight sauna. session. It's not that much. You're not. losing a ton of weight. You're not. killing yourself. >> Maybe you ride the bike for a half hour. Like what do you do? >> I literally do a 30 minute jog. It's. like really low with a sauna suit on. >> Uh straight away I take that off, go. straight into the sauna. 15 minutes then.

wrap. 15 minutes and wrap and I'm done. >> See, that's perfect. >> That's actually probably therapeutic. >> Yeah, that's I mean, it's not it's not. >> it's not bad for you at all. That's. probably actually very good for you cuz. you're giving your body all this. recovery from the sauna and you're. getting a nice little cardiovascular. workout, but nothing crazy. You're. giving yourself a lot of heat shock. proteins. You're not killing yourself. >> But there's guys, man, I've seen them. and they look like Okay, here's the. worst one. The worst one other than. >> other than Travis. Travis was the worst.

because I watched him shuffle backstage. But the visuals is TJ Dillshaw when he. went down to flyweight. He fought Henry. Cejudo at flyweight and he looked like a. dead man. He looked. >> Yes, I remember this. >> He looked like a hostage that had just. gotten released and it had not fed for. ages. Yeah, >> he looked [ __ ]. >> cuz he gets quite jacked as well. >> Yeah, he [ __ ] up. >> He [ __ ] up. Look at Look at what he. looked like on the left. That's crazy. That picture mean he's quite big there, >> right? But that picture that picture.

that picture is [ __ ] crazy. That's a. prisoner of war. >> Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? Like that's. not a guy. Look at. >> Yeah. Well, now he's [ __ ] tank. Now. he's a tank. That's a The one on the. right is not fair cuz that's. >> Yeah, that's Yeah, he's finished down by. a buck 65 now. He's [ __ ]. >> Yeah, he's massive. >> But he was uh here's another guy that. doesn't get the credit that he deserves. When he fought Hannon Barrow, >> I love this style. Pure flow state. >> Yeah, it's pure flow. >> But it's the it's it's the level uh. changes of the up and that you don't.

know where he's attacking. It's not it's. not linear. It's not just I'm going here. or I'm going here. >> Switching stances constantly. >> Yeah. >> I used to love watching his style. >> Have you ever talked to Lewig? >> No. >> Oh, you should meet Dwayne Bang Lwig. Okay. >> And talk to him cuz Dwayne is the one. who coached him in that style. Okay. >> Dwayne, who was an elite kickboxer. himself and fought in the UFC at one. point in time, had the fastest ever. knockout in the UFC at a. I think it was a five or six second. knockout in the UFC. He was one of the. fastest ever to step back one right hand.

plan. But Dwayne was a beast. But maybe. even better than he is as a fighter. He. is as a coach. And he doesn't have that. style. This is what's crazy. He devised. that style. So this is Dwayne. Watch. this. >> There it is. >> Yeah. Nice. >> So they called it six seconds. I don't. even think it was six. >> Yeah. I know. I don't even think it was. six. But the point is Dwayne's style. like he learned from Boss Rooten and you. know it was like Dutch kickboxing style.

>> Um but he realized like Dwayne is like. this consumate studier of fighting and. he realized that the best way to fight. is to overwhelm them with possibilities. and options but have a whole system of. how to do that. So, his system is all. about switching stances and combinations. while you're switching and turning and. moving and but he's got it mapped out. >> The dude came over to my place with like. a binder, like this thick binder of. techniques and he's fullon eggghhead.

with this [ __ ] and TJ and him just. locked up and the fruits of that labor. was the hen and brow fight. Pull go to. that fight Jamie. So, cuz I feel like. this was one of the finest championship. performances at the time. I thought it. was the best I had ever seen of a guy. who was an underdog going into a fight. Hen Barrow at that time a lot of people. thought was the pound-for-pound best. It. was him and Jose Aldo. They were talking. about those two guys together and TJ. just went in there and worked them. >> I mean, it was like it was sparring. match. He went in there super loose and.

just moving around and started cracking. them. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's a fun watch though. >> Just get me in there. >> Yeah. >> So, this is like Hen Bar was the. boogeyman. Everybody was scared of this. dude. He was so [ __ ]. >> The guy starts. The guy starts. >> Woo. Stepping with an uppercut. Just. movement. Constant movement overwhelming. you. And look, always on the tips of his. toes moving around. >> He didn't back up at all and never gave. Henn and Baral the chance to get some. momentum going. >> And at the end when he eventually.

stopped him, I mean, was just a [ __ ]. ruthless combination when he took him. out of there. Like if you knew how. difficult it is to be look at that right. hand right off the bat in the first. round at this point Hen's like oh no. >> I'm in problems. >> Yeah because nobody had thought that TJ. was going to be capable of doing this. >> TJ you know was a a really good upand. cominging fighter, a really good. contender, but this was his finest. performance and it was in a world. championship fight.

>> against a guy that everybody thought was. the man. TJ just beat that ass. And if. you go like further, see if you can go. to the actual stoppage. Jamie, like. further in the fight. >> when he like at this point in time, TJ's. just styling on him. Just standing right. in front of him and popping up. Look at. that. Beautiful job. >> Not getting hit, >> staying right in range, dropping down. head movement. >> Oh, look at that head kick. Oh my. goodness. Beautiful. >> Look at this. I mean, and it's artistic.

It's [ __ ] beautiful, man. Yeah, I. love it. >> It's a beautiful stoppage. Like one of. the best championship winning. performances in the history of the. sport. >> In the history of the sport. >> Yeah. Yeah. Beautiful. >> But that dude unfortunately had two bump. shoulders. >> Oh, is that what it was? >> Yeah. Forever. He had even when he won. the title, his shoulders were [ __ ] He. had torn super spanatuses in both of his. shoulders. >> I've done one on this. >> It got to the point where he never got. it fixed. So it got to the point where. they were just popping out. So by the. time he fought Alamine Sterling.

>> Yeah. They just like I. >> He told the the the referee in the. locker room, "My shoulder's going to go. out of socket. Just let me put it back. Put it back." Yeah. >> That's crazy to to go in there knowing. that that's. >> So now he's he had to retire and he had. multiple operations on his shoulder and. he can't even reach over his head. He. gets his arm that far. Like that's how. [ __ ] he is. >> Three months ago. So he's got to get. another one. >> Oh. Oh yeah. You can see. Jeez. >> Oh my god. Get another surgery. They're. going to cut off the head of my humorous. and turn the head into a plastic. plunger. Ah, that sounds like a bit too.

much. >> I hate doing a like surgery for. anything. >> He has the worst shoulder injuries I've. ever seen. I know there's been a lot. like your. >> Was that from before? >> It was from wrestling. >> Oh, from wrestling. I think it's just. from having torn shoulders and just. trying to rehab them and not getting. them surgically fixed. >> Like if you you can have some things. loose in there and strengthen everything. else up and kind of be functional, but. not if you're going to be a world. championship fighter. >> Fair. Fair. And the problem with a lot. of those things is once it tears and.

pulls back, you can't get it back in. place. >> Yeah. >> So then you have really complicated. surgeries where they have to take a. piece of your hamstring and stick it up. there or some other part of your body. and reconstruct what was supposed to be. there and then you have to slowly build. range of motion into it. Like he got to. the point where he was too tough for the. injuries that he had where he should. have probably got them fixed immediately. and maybe he could have prolonged. I. feel like it just sounds like he just he. went back in in terms of getting back. into training a bit too quickly. So I.

feel like the rehab can work. I know you. obviously there's certain things you're. going to need surgery for, but there's a. lot of my stuff I've managed to bring it. back. And even. >> I don't think he had surgery until after. he was done fighting. >> Oh, so he even had surgery? >> No, he know he had surgery on one of his. knees cuz he blew his knee out in the. Sanhagen fight. Or I should say Sanhagen. after talking with Sanhagen about what. happens in that 50/50 position. San. Hagen blew his knee up. Okay. Okay. >> So, he he put him in a position where if. TJ didn't give in, Yeah. he was gonna.

get his knee [ __ ] up and he got he. chose to get his knee [ __ ] up, but. that was Cory putting him in that. position. >> Um, so he had to get an ACL. reconstruction. So, that but I don't. think he got the shoulder surgeries. until after he was done fighting. He. might have gotten one and then tried to. fight again. Yeah. >> But the problem is like his shoulders. were [ __ ] man. They were really. [ __ ] But that doesn't look fixed. >> Like for you to be. >> having to. >> No, no, no, no, no. It doesn't look. fixed. But I think that's all they could. do with it. I think it was. >> that bad. >> I think it was that bad.

>> I'm looking at an article from right. after that fight. It says third shoulder. surgery since 2019. >> Okay. So that's when he started getting. him. And when was that fight? When was. the last fight that he had? That was. like 2023. >> The Aljo fight I think is 22. >> Oh, okay. >> UFC 280. >> Mhm. >> It's not I mean it's not. >> Is it 2022? That's when this article. >> Okay. So, he had those shoulder. surgeries and then I know he's had a ton. since and since, you know, like you look. on his Instagram page, it's like every. few months it's him and a a sling. Well,

>> again, I know guys that are like. surgery, surgery, surgery, surgery, and. they it never seems to I've never unless. I forced to. I don't ever really go down. a surgery route. I always try and figure. it out a different way. Like I've had. weird enough it was both my shoulders, but one was uh super spinatus, the other. one was rotator cuff. and kind of like some lat injury as. well, but just slowly to the point where I. couldn't do a push-up when in my last. couple of. was it Bellator fights? Yeah, my last. few Bellator fights I couldn't do a.

push-up. I could still hit in certain so. certain angles I was fine but I had no. strength in that direction. >> while you were fighting. >> While I was fighting Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, no. >> Yeah. Yeah. So, literally trying I get. that that my my arms would just start. shaking. I couldn't. >> Why didn't you do something about that? I was doing I was doing like rehab. I. was like as long as I can hit you, I'm. fine. Like. >> I don't know. >> That's so crazy going into a fight with. that kind of a major handicap. >> I I've had worse. But. >> what's the worst?

>> I don't I don't say as an excuse. So, but the the day. before my Ian Garry fight, I couldn't. stand on my left foot. Why not? I I up till today, I don't. understand it. I had um the the UFCPI. working everything. They did shock. therapy, they did acupuncture, they were. doing everything. And I literally I had. it I had a um if you see the fight, I. literally had uh ankle supports on. They.

said you're allowed the ankle supports. You can't really have it taped. But I. had it taped under the ankle support. But obviously if I I couldn't just do. one ankle. >> So you had to do both of them. >> So I had to do both of them. And um. yeah, just the day before the fight, I'm. not sure if I did anything when I was uh. cutting weight like twinged it or. something, but I don't remember anything. distinct happening, but couldn't walk on. my foot. >> So, it was your ankle. You twisted my. ankle. >> It was my ankle or something and they. were working on it. Literally, I was. trying. I was in.

>> and you don't have a single instance. where it went. >> I don't remember anything. >> All of a sudden, it just hurt. >> going it started. It hurt the night. before. >> Woke up. >> It hurt the night before. So on the way. in it hurt and I was walking around in. it I was like it's hurting but it it. didn't feel like anything drastic and. overnight it just got worse and worse. and worse and worse and. >> probably exaggerated by the weight cut. right. >> maybe. Yeah. And then in and literally. the next day uh in the morning we had to. go to the uh uh PI uh I was my coach. like bro if we you can't bounce here now.

I'm going to have to pull your fat. I. was like there's no way I can get pulled. from this fight. It's not happening. I. was like it's not happening. >> Wow. >> And I went out there and he's bouncing. I'm trying to adjust myself and and. bounce. And he had it they they did the. tape that it was he was going to use for. the fight and he said he'll come in and. do it again just before the fight. And. yeah, it was I was just like dang. >> adjusted adjusting. >> and I obviously I had a. >> still had a great performance. >> Yeah, I had a I had my So my guy uh my. videographer.

uh Kashan uh he filmed he was we're. doing a documentary so he's filmed all. of it as well. I was kind of like I'll. wait until it comes out as as known. But. not like not even to say as an excuse. cuz I was able to adrenaline just I'm. I'm in it now and fight. But there were. certain things I was being cautious of. and not not wanting to do. >> But yeah, it was just irritating. But. I've had that's that's probably the. worst in terms of how close to the fight. it was cuz it's the day before. But I've. had injuries in the buildup and I'm like. if as long as I can throw a punch and.

throw a kick, I'm just make it happen. He just. >> that's the thing that people don't. understand with watch fights like. sometimes guys this is one of the things. about the rematch this weekend versus. Pereira is that Pereira supposedly had a. [ __ ] up left hand and rotovirus before. the last fight. >> I I believe it he looked off. >> He looked off. >> He He definitely didn't look himself. >> But Uncle looked really good. >> 100%. Yeah. I don't I don't want to take. anything away from when someone looks. off. I'm always like it's like Roy.

Jones. Like people go Roy Jones didn't. fight anybody. No, no, no. Roy Jones. fought everybody, but he made him look. like they were nobody because they were. fighting Roy Jones. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> Like, so is that what's going on? Like, is Ankolia that good? And so, we don't. know. So, we got to see him fight again. >> I'd only say no just because towards the. fifth round, it looked like Pereira. could do some stuff. Like, it's like, okay, you're actually now landing that. that calf kick a bit more now. You're. actually starting to do it's like, why. didn't you start like that? >> He didn't have the gas. >> Yeah. So, >> if you got rotovirus, your gas is very. low and you probably your energy level.

feels very low. So he's he's trying to. be he's conser he's conserving energy. and so so this what makes this what this. fight. >> so much more interesting cuz hopefully. he's had the camp he is and Kive. hopefully comes in looking exactly the. same way he did that last fight. >> Yeah. Or better. >> Or better. >> He's going to be better because he's. going to be the champion. When you I. think there's a thing that happens and. Daniel Cormier has expressed this too. It was like a 30% bump when you become. the champion. You just got you got third. you know like when you were talking. about when you won that tournament and. all you were better. Yeah, >> I think there's that when you get the.

championship. Hopefully, you're going to. get to experience that. >> You'll get to experience that bump. >> But this is, you know, I feel like. >> that's just we're going to have to see. And it's a very intriguing one because. Pereira, if you heard his left hand, that's the doom punch. >> Exactly. >> That left hook is that's the one. That's. the one. If you look at his highlight. reel, there's so many left hooks. >> And he catches people with that. Even. when he grazed like Jamar Hill, >> it was a I still don't get it now. He. grazed him. >> He's got a hell of a punch on him, man.

>> Punch. The Yuri Posca one at the end of. the first round. Yuri was like, "Yo.". And then he head kicks him in the. beginning of the second. >> Yeah, he's got ferocious power. >> Fast. >> Yeah. >> Heck was fast as well. >> Boy, I hope he's healthy. But I heard I. heard he's super heavy coming into this. week. >> Oh, is it? >> I heard he's like 230. >> going into this week. Yeah. For him, >> I guess he's got a lot to cut. >> Yeah. Some guys can do it. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> I don't know what the [ __ ] there. >> Well, I guess if he he was able to get.

to middleweight. >> Yeah. Well, yeah. >> But also sometimes it makes you lazier. as well. Like, oh, I can do that. And. then Yeah. And then you get close to the. time. A [ __ ] Bit of work now. >> Well, he has talked about moving up, but. Yeah. And so is Uncle. >> Oh, yeah. Actually, he has. Yeah. Yeah. >> Uncle just said that recently that he. wants to defend the title a couple of. times then move up to heavyweight. >> I think it's a bit too small. Maybe, but. if he puts size on and he gives himself. enough time, he's got the skill set and. Aspenol is going to need some [ __ ].

challengers. >> But then does Yeah. Fair, fair. >> Unless serial Gan beats him, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. But then does he need, >> you know, does I always say like the. time that Jon Jones took off to get to. heavyweight? Does he need that kind of. time? Cuz it takes a while to put on. size like that. >> Uh, naturally, it takes ages. >> Not when you're over in Russia. >> Fair. Enough said. >> Real diff get those [ __ ] drug tested. guys on a plane. If they do, everybody. knows when they're landing.

>> Fair. >> Good luck going into the bathroom while. those guys pee. Yeah, you will accept. gloves of urine. >> I will hand it to Vitali. He handles. this to you. This is clean urine. I'm not accusing him of doing that, but. I know that, you know, for sure. Listen, I mean, >> there was always like the joke about. guys going over to Thailand. Like, why. are they going over to Thailand? It was. good training. And also really hard to.

get those USADA guys on a flight. >> Ah, I know that. >> Yeah. That kind of stuff. Like I just don't I. just don't care enough because again, it's like like I said, I don't really. have like a schedule for anything. Even. when I'm even the good stuff, like the. things you're supposed to be doing. I'm. just like, eh, I'll just I'll do it. >> So, you're not like a supplement guy or. >> at all? I I I don't take protein shakes. at all. >> Nothing. >> Nothing. >> Nothing. That's crazy. >> None of that. No, no, no. Never. Never.

been into it. >> Multivitamins? >> Vitamins? Yeah. Like, but again, I just. forget to take them. Like, I'm seriously. ADHD mind. I'm just like, >> you should have someone who makes like a. little packet for you with everything. >> So, I'm I'm going to get my wife to do. it. uh uh soon cuz she's very into that. She's very into her fitness and stuff. >> She's a Pilates in uh instructor. She's. got her own Pilates app and stuff and. she's she smartly well, I don't even. know if she even intended it that way, but she kind of blew up over COVID.

because she set up her app at that time. and now everyone's at home. >> Oh, perfect. >> You know what I mean? It's just perfect. timing and she just blew up. Her apps. are called Cloud9 Collective and she. does Pilates for women. Like, have you. ever done PLA yourself? >> Yes, I have. >> Bro, I I did a video with her and she. got her to train some MMA and then I. she's like, "Okay, you come and do this. for lies." She killed me. >> It's a lot more difficult than I. thought. >> It's so much. But I didn't. >> weird muscles. >> Yeah, it. >> inside of your leg. >> But that's what's actually helped with a. lot of my the rehab side cuz it's it's.

those muscles that we we bypass. We go. to the big muscles. Yeah. We want to. work these muscles and it's all those. little ones that are not getting worked. and those are the ones that injured. >> Stabilizers. >> Stabilizers. And I didn't know that that. it was. a man, I forget his first name, but. called something Pilates, who started it. for men in war to help recover guys in. war to get them back out to to to war. But it's become such a femaleled. >> uh sport. >> Well, that goes to speak about what I.

was talking about with the Russians and. being technical. You know who was really. into Pilates? Kovalev. >> Remember when Kovalev was the light. heavyweight champion, the crusher? He. was [ __ ] everybody up. He was big in. the he was doing Pilates all the time. and everyone's like, "Wait a minute, what? That guy?". >> The strength from you get can get from. anywhere because like I said, those. smaller muscles that help facilitate the. bigger muscles. >> Yeah. >> Like it's it's crazy. >> It's the same people that like look down. on yoga. Like, [ __ ] go to a 90minute. hot yoga class. Go. >> Okay. I did that. Yeah.

>> It's hard. >> And I was like, yeah, I'm going to go to. a yoga a hot yoga. You know, I was more. thinking just it's nice to kind of get. the sweat going and stuff. I remember. the lady, she's like, "Oh yeah, go to if. you go to that side of the room, it's a. bit it's quite hot. Uh, so you know, if. you're new to here, just go to this side. of the room." And I was like, "Woman, whatever, man. >> Get over that hot. >> Let me go to that hot side." And she's. like, "Oh, you know, if you feel if you. ever feel faint at all, you don't have. to continue. You can kind of just sit. down." I was like, "What is she talking. about? It's not that hot in here. >> Google me, lady.". >> Bro,

I think like three moves later, I slowly. like just like moved the mat. Like I. didn't want to go too far. I didn't want. to. But I moved from the hot side of the. room to like the middleish closer to. that side. And then there was one move I. was just stretching and like I literally. just got lightheaded. I was like, "Shit, she's this is real. >> It's real. >> It's real. >> You see all those little old ladies in. there and you think, "Oh, this is. difficult.". >> But my So my wife is strong as hell and. I'm just like, "Yes, it has to be from. that." like she and when I do the s I.

did a session with her this morning cuz. she does some great sessions like when I. do sessions with her like she she kills. it and she's. >> I have to say she's smart in how she's. done it as well cuz actually something I. didn't know cuz she's in on her rap. she's done a cycle syncing specifically. for women. I didn't realize that women. have a obviously I knew women 28 day. cycle and men have auh 20 uh 24 day. cycle. um 24 hours and they have 28 days. So.

there specific times that they should be. training as uh harder than they. shouldn't be training or they should be. doing this and should be doing that. >> based on biometrics. >> based on just demonst time of the cycle. of the month. But again, in my head, I'm. like, there's the girls that are. training our class and they have to. train and do everything that we do. >> M, >> but we we don't we forget that we're. just doing it based on that men can kind. of just keep going. >> Well, women should think about that when. they're scheduling fights. >> 100%. That should be a thing. And I. said, she did it for PL when she and I.

looked into it and I was like, oh, there's actually this is like even down. to ice baths. Great for you. Not for. women though, >> really. >> Not all the time. But if you look into. it, so there's specific times it's okay. for them, but they shouldn't put their. body under that kind of stress. >> in the same way that we can. >> Oh, that's interesting. >> Yeah. So there's loads of when I started. looking at certain there's loads of. things that we forget that a lot of. times it's done from a male point of. view, >> right? >> Forgetting that we we're just different. >> I never would have thought about that in. terms of their menstrual cycle and.

fighting. But of course, >> of course, of course, of course. >> Wow. So yeah, she's put it on so. individuals can actually be like her it. was scheduled and say look you're good. specifically for you are good to train. intensely today or no you need a very. relaxed session and and these videos. that she's got hundreds of videos on her. thing that will come up and be like this. is for you this was for you this was for. you but again it just made me think. about the women in MMA like you said. >> it's the same thing scheduling even down. to for them weight cutting.

>> you know at a certain time you going. through the loot your phase they holding. weight. >> right. >> like it's just it's just different. >> Yeah, >> we don't have any of those issues to. worry about, but we get them to do the. same structure as we would do. >> That's a very good point. >> You know what I mean? And it's it they. they should be more information about. that even for the female fighters. >> Yeah. They should actually be like their. coaches should be setting fights up. entirely based on I wonder like how many. fights they would have won that they. >> couldn't couldn't really train right.

>> because they were cramping up and. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's just we're just. different. >> when you I've seen some videos of you. You do a lot of plyometric stuff as. well, right? And is that something. you've always done? >> Well, it kind of comes with just the. this is why I feel like I can bounce on. my calves for ages just because of that. constant. And it seems to be a thing. now. I didn't really understand it well. enough. It was just kind of how I. trained. And now. >> did you train like that from the. beginning? >> Yeah, just because of the points. fighting style is is a lot of that. shifting, >> right? And.

>> but did you but back then when you were. doing that were you just doing the. martial arts training or were you doing. >> martial arts training plyometric with. plyometrics. The reason why we did. plyometrics more so is because we were. also doing a lot of our kas we did uh. martial gymnastics. So the forms. >> Oh. >> So I had to learn how to do these crazy. kicks and stuff in which I would then. this is why I would try 720s. Not. because uh. >> like I just randomly decided to to to. just throw it out today. It's cuz we. were drilling them just for kata though.

>> Mhm. >> And I was like, well, if I can do it for. kata, then I could surely I can find the. time to throw it when I'm fighting. And. I would be like brave enough to try and. attempt these things in in the points. fighting world. And yeah, that's that. there's a couple kicks I keep telling. people there's a couple kicks that even. for me, I haven't even shown you what I. can actually do yet. Like there's a. couple kicks that I know I I can land. And it's it's usually it's easier on. people that are well trained. So usually. the better fighter it's actually easier.

to hit them just because they are very. traditional. They're very well trained. They have patterns that I can pick up. on. I'm like, "Ah, you're going to step. this way and you're going to do that.". >> And I always tell people, I call it. attaching strings. The first minute of. the fight, not too much happens for me. cuz I'm faking this that that. But every. time I'm faking something, you twitch. I'm like, "Ah, this means this. information." Yeah, you twitch. This. means this, this, and I just attaching. strings to you. >> So now I'm moving you.

>> Literally, you just became Pinocchio. >> But that and that's important. This is. why, like you said, all those fakes. But. those fakes mean something. >> Yes. >> You know what I mean? I want I'm getting. I'm like you said, I'm getting that. information from you. Okay. Okay. Yeah. He wants that. If I do this, he wants. that. I can Okay, I see it. Okay. Perfect. Now I I got it. >> Yeah. That's what's so important for a. casual fan to understand that there's a. whole game taking place that if you. could play it, you would understand what. he's doing. But you're just seeing.

movement, random movement. You're like, "Hit him. >> Hit him. Why don't you hit him?". >> Meanwhile, you're if you knew, you'd be. watching something beautiful. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> You're watching, you know, a dance. >> Yeah. >> Snake charming. >> That That's it. It's part of the. identity, man. It's part of the. identity. >> I try to tell people though, but yeah. Do you know when you're fighting again? Have they given you any kind of an idea? >> No, like I said, I I pushed out. information. I keep chasing up to try. and find out and I haven't really heard. too much back. >> They're announcing some fights now,

right? >> That's what I'm saying. It feels like. things are slowly starting to happen. Um, still waiting. >> So, Protest is going to fight Leon. Edwards. >> So, 170, which is what you're looking at. the most, right? >> Yeah. I want to I want to get back. I. know I'm big now, but. >> you can make it though. I've seen. >> I can make it. I can make it. I want to. get back down. >> Advantages at 170. >> Yeah. Yeah. I want to get back down to. 170 just because like I said I I feel. like I think JDM's a great uh an amazing. fighter. Um I just feel stylistically I. can beat that but I can beat him.

>> Well, it's a very good style for stand. up for you. That's for sure. I mean he's. very complete. >> Very complete. >> Yeah, he's very very. >> complete. I really like his style and. very smart. You can tell he's very. smart. Like he has in specific to the. opponent. He's like okay. Yeah. But like. I said, that's one of the advantages is. like you're not going to have it's going. to be very difficult for you, even as. smart as you are, to figure that out. >> Well, that's why it's exciting for you. with any standup fighter. As soon as. you're fighting a guy who likes to stand. up, it's like, are you sure? >> Are you sure you like to stand up?

>> I tell people I tell people this all the. time. >> Welcome to this new thing that you've. never experienced before. >> Guys, wrestlers, man. I reckon Standup. guys wrestlers and they always. everyone's like, "I'm going to strike. with you.". >> Well, listen, brother. I can't wait to. see you in there again. I'm a giant fan. I'm so happy you're at the UFC now. And. uh I know you do a lot of stuff online. So tell people how to find you and. >> Yeah. So again, it's all the social. media, Michael Venom page, everything. Instagram, you know, I don't really do. Twitter as much or X. Sorry. Um my.

Facebook, YouTube, I'm doing a lot of. stuff. Um ITM actually I'm doing a film. company. I I always try to set myself up. for the next stage and my my creative. mind won't stop even when you make. movies. >> I'm making movies. I've already made. I've already made uh two short movies. >> Wow. >> Uh and again the same the. >> Congratulations. That's awesome. >> Thank you. Thank you. And I'm going to. get to acting as well. >> What are they about? >> So the first one was actually about an. an athletes mindset. One thing that I. find with films I think people are lazy.

watchers nowadays. They find just. explodes explosion explosion action. action action and crap story line. But I. want storytelling again. And um this one. is just more about an athletes mindset. Um I did it through the eyes of a runner. just cuz it's slightly different. I. didn't want to just go down the same. lane as um MMA. Did it through the eyes. of a runner and just how toxic. your want and your need to be the best, how it can look like. And again, it's. I'll go into that one. I I'll let people.

watch that one. That one's just called. runner. The next one's called Wait, and. it's it's kind of about what anxiety can. look like from a position of waiting for. good news and a position of waiting for. bad news and how the parallels work and. and look almost identical. So, you're. literally watching two uh point of. views. So, these two.

So this dude's just freaking out waiting. for. >> Yeah, he's he's. >> That's [ __ ] cool that you're doing. things like that. >> Thank you, man. Thank you. That's very. cool. >> Yeah. Yeah. Like I said, I'm a creative. mind. I need to express it in some way. And I know when I leave, >> I'm not going to be one of those guys. that retire and want to come back and. retire and want to come back. If I say.

I'm I'm done, then I'm done. >> Well, that's great. >> And I need something else to to go into. >> Nothing better than having something you. look forward to that you actually enjoy. and love outside of it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz it's hard. It's very hard for. guys to end. It becomes your identity. >> 100%. >> And the thrill, you know, more than. anybody. The thrill of doing that is. above and beyond almost anything else. you'll experience in life. >> My thrill is usually for me anyway, it. comes from expressing art. And I we call. it martial artist. As much as people see. the the the sometimes the blood, the.

knockouts and stuff, it's art. Like we. just watched TJ Dillishaw, that was art. >> Art. >> That was pure art. >> Pure art. >> Like, >> yeah, >> people don't appreciate that side of it. And I'm I love to paint pictures. And. I'm like, how can I continue painting. pictures after this stage of my life? I'm like, okay, yeah, cool. Movies. >> Well, listen, man. If you make movies. like you can fight, I'm in. >> Yeah, I'm in. Trust me, we're doing big. I believe. >> Kishan, the guy, my camera guy, Kishan. Lehi, he's it just worked. The synergy.

just worked. He's directing films like. he's done it for 20 years and he's just. unbelievable. So. >> that's awesome. >> Whereas we're going to do some uh. magical things. >> I love hearing stuff like that. I really. do. >> And I got a So, like I said, I got a. gift for you anyway. >> What do you like? Red or red or black? You can have both if you want. >> What is it? >> Just a t-shirt. >> Oh, nice. And it just it represents uh. who we are hands down martial arts. There's guys that do this and everyone. mocks all the time, but it's obviously. my brand. Uh so extra large. Large.

>> Large. >> Yeah. Let me see. Large here. Large. >> Thank you very much. >> Thank you. >> And then I'm also I got again I'm into. everything, but I got a beef jerky. company. called Snapdown Snacks for snapping. people, wrestling, snapping them down. Snapdown Snacks. >> So, Snapdown or Snack Down and some. Snapdown. >> Beautiful. Thank you very much. >> All right. Fantastic. >> Yes. Enjoy. Let me know what you think. >> How do people find that company? Is it.

is it a website? >> Yeah. Just Snap Down on uh Snap Down. snacks. >> Yeah. Yeah. Excellent fuel. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And when you when. you're if you're in um the UK next or. when you're in the UK next, let me know. Um I got a Mexican restaurant uh as. well. It shell. >> Wow, man. Yeah. >> That's great. You're invested in all. kinds of things. >> Yeah. We actually had uh Kendall's uh uh. Kendall Jenner's um 818 Tequilo. featuring in there. We're going to have. Jason Mamoa um coming end of this month. with his vodka, MLE vodka.

>> So, look at you. >> And shaking. >> Oh, yeah. We We're everywhere. Everywhere. >> Um all right, man. I'll see you this. weekend. Thank you for doing this. Thank. you, man. My pleasure. I really enjoyed. it. >> I I did, too. Thank you. Bye, everybody. [Applause]. [Music].