JRE MMA Show #166 with Ilia Topuria

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe. Rogan Experience. Train by day. Joe. Rogan podcast by night. All. day. Well, my man, what's happening? Pleasure. No, please. My pleasure. Thank. you for having me here. Pleasure. My. honor. I'm uh I'm very excited about. this new thing you're doing. I'm very. excited about your journey into the. lightweight division. Something that I feel very excited also. about that. What are you walking around.

at? Like what do you walk around at when. you were fighting at 45? I'm I'm going. to tell you in kilos. Okay. I walk. around 80 82. What is that Jamie? Like 16 170 75 175. 180 180 most. Okay. So you were losing. quite a bit of weight. 35 lbs. 25 30. lbs. Like yeah, that's a lot hard. That. was the hardest part of my training of. the fight game for me. I wasn't enjoying. at all the last couple of fights that. that I had because it's.

like I had to become more professional. on the way cut than in a fight game, you. know, and it was taking a lot of time. and energy from me and I'm like my dream. is to to become a world champion. I want. to end up this this chapter that I have. that I started in 145 and now it's time. to to really enjoy it and I'm very. excited about that. I already have one. fight in 155. J Herbert. Jai Herbert. Yeah. I really wish the UFC would. eliminate weight cutting. I really wish. there was a way. Why does to do that? I.

don't. It's sanctioned cheating that. everybody has to do. It's like you're, you know, I mean, if you're saying. you're 180 pounds, you're not really. 145, right? So, it's crazy that you're. the 145 pound champion, but you're 180. pound man. It's kind of nuts. Yeah. But. but at the same time if you go to the. next weight class you are playing with a. disadvantage because the guy in the next. division is cutting a lot of weight. Mhm. So if you don't do that at the end. of the day you walk inside the octagon.

and you are the smaller guy. Yeah. Like. Islam Islam Akachev is huge. I mean that. guy how he makes 155 is I don't. understand it. Every time I stand next. to him I'm like how are you 155? How. much do you think he he walks around? He's got to be 190ish in the 190 range. He's got to be. That's what he looks. like to me. I never saw home in a. person. Yeah, he's thick. He's thick and. big. I mean, he's he's not a small He's. not 155B man. It's just so silly. The. whole thing is just it's it's an it's an.

old thing that we kept for no reason. And I feel like they should blow all the. weight classes. I've talked to Dana. about this. I actually talked to Ari. Emanuel about this when they first. bought the UFC. I said, "The first thing. you should do is get rid of this. get. rid of the weight cutting and just add a. bunch of weight classes, you know, because some of the weight class gaps, like the gap between 70 and 85 and then. 85 and 205, they're too big. The gaps. are too big. 20 pounds nuts. I would do. something with the with the drug test. Like if I go to your home to to to make.

the drug test, I put you in in in the. scale. If you walk around like 8% or 10%. over your weight, I would obligate you. to go in the in the in the next weight. class. Just to give you an example, for. example, if you're fighting a 100. kilograms, I'm gonna say in kilograms, and I go to your house, I do the the. drug test, I put you in the scale, and. you weigh this 110 kilograms, I would. force you to go to the next weight. class. Yeah, I think that's realistic.

That makes sense. And I think that they. should have more weight classes cuz the. weight class gaps are just too large. Oh, maybe that's an option also. Yeah, I. mean at the lower weight classes it's 10. lbs which seems reasonable but really at. the lower weight classes, you know, when. you look at like 125 and 135, it could. easily be 5 lbs. 5 lbs is reasonable, but Dana doesn't want like 12 weight. classes or 12 15 20 weight classes like. boxing has. He wants it to be like the. UFC has now, but it's not enough. I.

don't really know the real reason behind. that, but I would love to talk to Dana. and ask him this these questions also. because it's kind of dangerous also for. the guys and many times you put on a. show for the people and you don't really. know if they going to make the weight. right. Exactly. And they're going to be. compromised. I mean, there's a lot of. guys who fight just deeply dehydrated. from the day before and even though. they've rehydrated themselves, their. brain's not rehydrated yet. Exactly.

It's not smart and it it's not it's also. not necessary. Like why would you It. would make for better fights. Why would. you want someone to be physically. compromised 24 hours before they're. fighting? It doesn't make any sense at. all. But at the same time, the way cut. takes something out from you. That's. crazy. It's like putting a dog inside. the room for 20 days without any food. and you open the door and you put him in. a different room with full of food. It's. like the same thing, you know, when I'm.

cutting the weight, I'm like I'm a. different person. I I feel that I'm like. my mind goes different. My thought. process is different. Everything is so. different at at that moment. I'm not so. kind when I'm cutting weight. Yeah. More. focused, dialed in. Exactly. Dominic. Cruz says it's a good thing. He says uh. he likes weight cutting because it gets. you dialed in. He says it gets you. completely dialed in for a fight. How. much he cuts? I don't think he cuts that. much 35. That's why he likes it.

Ask Alex Pereira if he likes it, you. know, cuz when he was fighting at 85, he. was weighing in at 85 and then fighting. in the sk in the cage at 225 226, which. is crazy. I don't know how how that guy. was making 185. That's crazy because. he's huge and he's so tall. Well, how. about Drius Duplo? How the [ __ ] is he. 185? That guy's huge. Yeah, that's huge. Also, there's a lot of these guys like, but it's it's very deceptive because the.

general public thinks that's a 185 pound. man, but he's not. Drius is probably. when he gets into the cage, he's well. into the 220s. He's a big guy. I don't. know in what way he he walks around, but. he's huge guy also. And comes when he. was fighting in 170. Yeah, he was big. also. He was almost killing himself. making the weight was Anthony Rumble. Johnson. Do you remember Anthony? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Anthony, I ran into him once. in between fights. And I said, "How much.

do you weigh?" He said, "230." Wow. He. was fighting 170. He He switched How. many weight classes? He started from. 170. He went to like light like heavy. weight and then he end up fighting in in. the heavyweight division, right? He went. to middleweight and didn't make weight. He missed weight and lost that fight and. then he fought heavyweight outside the. UFC and then came back and fought light. heavyweight in the UFC. You know, something similar happened to me also. I. started fighting in the bantamweight. division. Really? Yeah. Before the UFC.

like in cage warriors when I was. fighting in the cage warriors I actually. missed the weight also when I was was. fighting for the belt. I was I I was. fighting at that time in the. banterweight division. Then I I kept. fighting in in the featherweight and now. I'm in the lightweight. I hope I I don't. end up fighting in the welterweight. How old were you when you first started. fighting. in MMA? You asking? Or or in Well, all. when did you first start martial arts.

with four years old? My my dad put me. with my brother in in. judo. Then we went to Georgia. We kept. practicing with the Gra the Garmon. wrestling and then we moved to Spain. when I was 15 years old and completely. by chance we find the gym and we started. training the the MMA, the mixed martial. arts. Totally by chance. Totally by. chance. Wow. So, were you a mixed. martial arts fan at all? I didn't know.

anything about the mixed martial arts. I. didn't know anything anything about the. BJJ, the ground game, any [ __ ] thing. Wow. So we went to to Spain and we. wanted to keep with the same discipline. as we we were doing in Georgia with the. Groman wrestling but they don't have the. culture of of that sport. So we were a. little bit sad you know because we. wanted that sport. My brother was really. really good on that. So my mom was uh.

working and he saw a man with the. cauliflower ears. He went to she went to. to him and she asked him like what you. doing because my kids want to to do. wrestling. Do you train in in some gym. or or something and he said no I'm doing. the BJJ bring your kids and I'm going to. I'm going to show you the gym. She came. to home and my dad and and my mom and. they started to convince us like there's. a gym they are practicing like. jujitsu MMA all the sports and um I was.

like but what the [ __ ] is this? I don't. know what's this. And my dad start. started to show me the videos of the. Gracies. He he he told me like this one. of the best sports in the world right. now. You are going to guys love it this. and that. And at that day, we went to. the gym and I fell in love since the. first second. Well, it's actually a. great base to start out from. Starting. with judo and then greor roaming. wrestling and then going into jiu-jitsu. It's really great because you already. have an established grappling base. It's.

great. Of course, my recommendation for. everyone is if you want to have a career. in in in MMA, you should start with. wrestling because for me personally, because this is my personal experience. that it's much easier to learn in the. future boxing than start with boxing and. learn the wrestling. Really? For me, yes, I think so. And I saw that in in in. many people. But how old were you when.

you first started boxing? 17 years old. That's fairly old. Like. when you think about how high level your. striking is. Of course it is. Yeah. But. when I started I was like, okay, I'm. very good with the wrestling. I can take. people down. I can control them. I have. a great ground game. But what if I go to. the highest competition and I I find. some some adversities. I have to be able. to fight in the in in in the striking. also. So I have to de develop my game in.

the striking and I start from from from. that and I start with my brother. We. were like the the first people to go. inside the gym and the last ones to live. it. So we were studying every day all. day like so obsessed. We were watching. like all the videos of Julio Chavez of. Canelo all that practicing all the. techniques and then. putting in interaction the sparrings and. all that and I was like finding my. style. what that that I really like to.

do. Well, it's interesting because Spain. doesn't have a long history of mixed. martial arts. Mhm. So, like you are the. first champion from Spain in the UFC. So, it's it's very interesting that you. you got in there as a young man and. there wasn't really like a big. established community yet. So, I was the. first guy to to get into the top 15, the. top 10, the top five, and then the the. world champion. We we had a guy in in. Spain who fought in in in the UFC. I.

don't know if you remember him. Enrique. Wasabi. Okay. He did the Ultimate. Fighter. Then we have another guy also. Joel Alvarez. He's doing a great job. also. But before that, we didn't have. anyone in the UFC. So when you first. started training, were there amateur. competitions in Spain? Yeah, there was. amateur MMA and I made three fights in. amateur and then I started with a. professional game. I did four fights in.

Spain and at some point it was so. difficult to find a fight for me that I. had to start to travel in the European. territory to to to get a fight. Yeah. And everything started from that. But. it's fascinating because a lot of world. champions generally well there's a good. percentage of them come from an. established gym that already has elite. highle competition but it seems like. that's not the case with your gym. No it. wasn't. So I don't know I don't know what was.

the reason to be honest to to came this. far. I don't know. Well that's always. the question with champions like are. champions born or are they bred? Because. there's there's gyms that develop like. Marvin Haggler came out of the. Petronelli brothers gym in Brockton, Massachusetts. They're not known for. world championship fighters, but Marvin. Haggler is one of the greatest of all. time. It's like there was something. inside of him that made him excel. The. same thing. There was something inside. me.

that made me the person who I am today. Did you know when you first started. training, when you first started doing. MMA, that you were going to fight. professionally? Yeah, since the first. day. So my mindset always was the the. same exactly the same as I have right. now. I'm like if someone did it, I also. can do it and if no one did it, I can be. the first one to do it. This is the mindset I I I always had and. it's. like yeah that I think that the champion.

are they are not born they are made also. because you can burn in a extraordinary. uh situation but you can end. up so bad you know and the opposite also. you can burn in a I don't know crazy. situation and end up in a paradise. Yeah, it's it's such an interesting. thing because they all champions are not. the same type of person either. You. know, you got guys like Sugar Sean Ali. who's silly and smokes weed and has.

crazy hair. And then you got guys like. Alex Pereira, very stoic, you know, very. serious. It's everyone's different. He's. very serious. I met him in in in in. Sydney. I went with my bride because he. made his UFC debut and yeah, he was kind. of quiet like Yeah, he's intense. Yeah, he's so serious. Yeah, he's intense. I. remember watching him fight for the. first time in glory in kickboxing and I. was like, Jesus Christ, I just watched.

the way he kos people. I was like, this. guy is different. Huge, great. Crazy. power. His power is just ridiculous. I. mean, like hit guys with Who do you love. watching fight? I love watching you. fight. Yeah. Yeah. I'm a Giant fan. Um I. like all styles, man. I'm fascinated by. the the game in all different styles. I. mean, I I like watching all the. champions. I mean, I love watching Morab. fight. Wow. He's a [ __ ] animal. He's.

the machine. I love him. He's an animal. I mean, I just don't understand that. cardio. His cardio is [ __ ] crazy. It's like superhuman cardio. And I'm. going to tell you something about Morab. that surprised me that maybe you see him. in the mat and he's not the most special. guy, the most skillful guy in the room, but I don't know what happens to him. when he gets inside that. octagon. Wow. That man is a [ __ ]. machine. He's a [ __ ] machine. I'm I'm.

a right now. You ask me who I love to to. watch fight. That's my rap. I would pay. take my money when he's fighting in the. pay-per-view right now at this. I'm. like, bro, take my money. I love Umar, too. Umar, you know, that fight was. incredible. That was one of the best. fights I've ever seen because they're so. skillful, so high level. And, you know, to see him make Umar start to wilt, to. see Umar like you see the wobble when. guys start getting fatigued. You see.

this like a little bit of like loose. movement in the way, you know, you see. that. Morab had none. Zero. just. shooting like like he was in the first. round in the fifth round because this is. what I exactly think that happens to. Omar because you see uh Morav from. outside like you are sitting and you you. are seeing him training or fighting and. you're like he's not going to be able to. take me down he's not going to be able. to do that to me and then you get inside. the doctor with him and everything. changes. Yeah. It's like you have a a.

machine in front of you who has like. non-stop. Daniel Cormier went to visit. him right after he won the title. Dam. Daniel Cormier went to his house on. Sunday. Yeah. Morab wasn't home. He was. out running. Yeah. He won the title on. Saturday. Daniel went to his house on. Sunday. Morab's out running. Wow. He's. crazy. He He came He came to Spain also. to help me once when I had the training. come. I was supposed to fight with. Moser. He came to to to help me. Crazy. We the same exact exact team. We we were. like finishing the training. He was.

going for a run. He was going like. actually to to his house running. Yeah. There's no shortcuts. No, there's no. shortcuts. No shortcuts. No shortcuts. But, you know, like to answer your. question, I'm you know, I'm fascinated. by all the different styles. You know, I. I like watching everybody fight. You. know, I love Vulcanowski. You know, I. love watching him fight this past. weekend. And he's so great. He I was so. happy for him this this Saturday because. he really deserve deserve it to get the. that title back. Does it bother you to.

see someone win your title? No, not. that. You good? I'm good. Like I'm good. I'm good. Happy for him. You established. you won. You defended. I won. I. defended. Right now I have completely. different challenge in front of me. I. wish him nothing but the best. And to. everyone like I wish the best wins all. the time. That's great. Yeah. I don't. care. What about Patty Pimpblelet. though? He He did a great job. He did a great. job. He did what he had to do. He did. But for me, it's like I'm I'm going to.

be completely honest with you. For me, Chandler, he never was. a extraordinary fighter. He was like. average level of fighter. like who did he beat like in the UFC? Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson. Oh, Dan. Hooker. Yeah, Dan Hooker is a good fighter. He just he. caught well Dan Hooker had that war with. Dustin Porier that and Dustin Porier is. a very good fighter. How many losses he. has? He's got a few losses. Yeah, he's a.

good fighter. Very entertaining fighter. like for the fans. He's a wild dog. Yeah, he's a dog. He he he goes inside. that that that octagon and he fights. But yeah, I think he's on a resurgence. I think, you know, he had a skid for a. while and now he's rebuilding himself. and he's on a He's smiling. Look at you, [ __ ]. So, he beat Dan Hooker and Tony Ferguson. when he was like almost four years old. I think honestly we got Michael Chandler.

after his prime. Um, if you go watch. Michael Chandler fight Eddie Alvarez and. Bellator, those were [ __ ] crazy. fights. Crazy fights. Yeah, but at the. end of the day, you see wars. It's a. very competitive fight. Yes. You see. almost a bar fight. You see two guys in. the middle of the octagon exchanging. punches, but you don't see technique. You don't see skills. You see a great. fight because as a fans, it's a very. entertaining to watch fights like that, but if you really think about it, it's.

like you don't see skills in that fight. You don't see someone trying to take you. down, control you, some great. submissions, great transitions, I don't. know, striking. You you you see a guy. that he's like looking for a. combination. He's looking for his moment. creating a spaces. You don't see like I. don't know. I see what you're saying. This episode is brought to you by. BetterHelp. It's the end of tax season. and I know by now you all are probably. sick of numbers, but there's one more.

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You need a guys also like like him. But. I would never recommend my friend to. fight like that. Exactly. I never would. recommend to someone watch this guy and. learn something. Right. Right. Right. Learn. Yeah. It's like he's so. entertaining, but sometimes it's best to. not be as entertaining and just be. better. Exactly. Yeah. and shut people. down. At the same time, you don't have. to be Balal, right? I see what you're. saying. But you Balal I think gets too.

much bad rap. Like Balah when he beat up. Shawn Brady, that was very entertaining. And Shawn Brady is very good. You know, I think Bal just does what it takes to. win. And when you're in a div and also. like he didn't really have a background. in wrestling at the level that a lot of. these guys did. He had to develop that. over time. Yeah, but you there are two. type of champions for me. Like there are. champions who prepare themselves to win. and there are the other ones who prepare.

themselves to dominate. I prepare myself. not to win because I know that I'm going. to win. I I want to win in fashion. I. want to dominate. I want to more people. I want people to be entertained. I want. people to be like, "Wow, I'm happy that. I spend the money this Saturday night. going watch this guy. That's what I. want." Yeah. Someone was talking about. that recently on Instagram. I don't. remember who uh the the coach was, but. he was talking about levels of athletes. that there's there's people that train. to compete, there's people that train to.

win, and then there's people that train. to dominate, to be the greatest of all. time. Exactly. And there's there's a. different mindset. There's a never. satisfied, always improving mindset that. the great champions have all the time. I. want the people to be entertained all. the time. Like when actually I. was I started with the with with the. MMA. I was like recording myself all the. sparrings and after that I was. rewatching my my my sparring. I was like.

will I pay my money to watch. this? What do I have to to to change in. my game to be more entertained? And this is how I was like looking. myself all the time. I was very crit. critical with with myself. And this is. how I develop and develop and develop. And all the time I go inside the. octagon. I don't go there just to win. You know what I mean? I want everyone to. be like, "Wow, what he just did how he.

did it. He was the greatest of all time. and he made it made him look easy.". Yeah. This is what I want. I want to. change the game. you know the people to. to I want you to say your friend watch. this guy and learn something. Yeah. Well, mission. accomplished so far, right? So far so. good. And now uh a new journey into the. lightweight division, you know. Um I. don't understand why they won't just. book you and Islam. There's many times. that I wish I was running the UFC. I.

would change so many different things. That would be one of the first things I. would change. I'm like, "Book that. fight. Book that fight right away." You. would do some fights also in Mars. I'm. I'm sure. I would probably go with the starship. I. have I got some wacky ideas. I don't. even think they should fight in a cage. Yeah. Yeah. I think the cage is an. unnecessary um it's an I think it's an. unnecessary element in fighting like to. push someone against something or to be.

able to get up from something. I don't. think it's necessary. I think they. should be in like a basketball court. like a basketball court that's matted. up, have a big space, have a warning. track where you can't if you go outside. the warning track too many times, you. you could lose points. Okay? And um so. when someone takes you down, you have to. actually get up. I also think at the end. of a round, like say if you got a guy. mounted at the end of the round, you. start the next round mounted on him. Of. course. Yeah. I don't think because why.

would you give him the advantage of. getting up when he never got up? He. never got up. Never got You have to earn. a get up. You have to stand up by. yourself. I love it. I I never thought. about that, actually. No. No standups. ever. Ever. No stand-ups. Unless someone. commits a foul. Like if someone commits. a foul and you want to stand them up and. take a point away, that's fine. But if. the guy's in the bottom and he commits a. foul, if a guy's on the bottom, he. gouges someone's eyes on purpose. Take a. point away. Put him right back in the. same spot. Wow. Because otherwise, like. say if you're fighting a guy like Alex.

Pereira who's never taking anybody down, he's just going to strike with you, right? Okay. Why would you let him back. up again and have the advantage of him. standing up again? The beginning of the. round, he starts standing up again. Now. you got to take him down again. But. also, you don't think that it's it's a. part of the show? It is a part of the. show. But I don't give a [ __ ] about. that. Yeah, I'm a I mean, I'm a hardcore. fan. I'm a purist. I think it should be. about fighting, about elite fighting. And elite fighting is you got to get up.

Like if a wrestler takes you down and he. just does this to you and it's not. entertaining. But if he can do that to. you, that's tough [ __ ] That's what he. did. You would change also the time. range like or you would leave a three. round or five minutes with one minute. rest. The good thing about five minute. rounds, the good thing about fiveminute. rounds is it's sustainable and guys can. fight at a high pace. If you had like. just 15 minutes, one 15 minute round, guys would be exhausted and the end of. it would be sloppy. it wouldn't be the.

same. The pace would be much slower. It. wouldn't be as good. So, I think there's. nothing wrong with rounds, but I think. it's one fight. It's not five fights. So, why does he stand up at the end of. every round? I think if a guy takes you. down and he's got you mounted with like. trapped in arm and he's punching your. ribs trying to secure an arm triangle, why would you why does he get to stand. up again? It doesn't make any sense. True. especially if he's a striker and. you wasted all that energy get him to. the ground and you got so close to.

cinching up a submission and then all of. a sudden he's back on his feet again. You have to stand up and he didn't even. earn it. Start him right back down. there. No cage, no standups. No standups. ever. If everybody booze, tough [ __ ] Go. watch baseball. Go watch Go watch. something else. Would you you wouldn't. like to see at some point the World. Championships in mixed martial arts? Like for example, let's say the seven. best fighters from the United States in. every weight class against seven biders.

from I don't know from China or from. Russia. Yeah, I would love that. The. best flyweight against the best. flyweight from the United States and you. do that and you have seven fights. because you have seven weight divisions. and if you win four weight divisions. that country won. M yeah, that will be. fun. Also, that would be great. That's a. great idea. I love that idea. Yeah, I. think that that idea sounds really good. And also, there is a bit of an issue,

right, with the UFC being the premier. organization for martial arts. The UFC. is like, if you're not a champion in the. UFC, no one thinks of you as a world. champion. Like, you're a world champion. World champion. Someone can fight in the. PFL and they could say, "Oh, it's the. PFL world champion." Everybody's like, "Right, come on. Come on. fighters, but at the end of the day, you. know that you have all the best. fighters, the best collection of. fighters in the UFC. Yes. But I watch. one FC and I watch some of those [ __ ].

animals that they have over there and. I'm like, Jesus Christ, some of these. guys are good, man. Some of these guys. are good. And you know, they're calling. them one one FC world champions. I'm. like, I'd like to see them. I'd like to. see them because some guys look real. good until they fight elite talent. And. we've seen that before. Like some guys. look like destroyers and then they get. in the UFC against guys who are just a. little bit more technical, a little. smarter and they get pieced up. What. happens is that I think that in one. championship you most of the time you.

used to fight with strikers. In the UFC, you don't know who who you're going to. face next. Maybe he's a wrestler, right? Maybe you're going to fight Demian Maya. who wants to fight you on the ground. Maybe you fight Alex Pereira. You don't. [ __ ] know. So you have to be good. everywhere and you have to be prepared. for everything in one championship. Maybe you are good at striking and you. can be a world champion. Yeah, maybe. I. mean there are some good grapplers over. there, but my point is I really wish. there was no organizations.

I really do. I really wish it was just. all the best fighters competing. I don't. Look, I love the UFC. I've been working. for the UFC forever and my loyalty is to. the UFC. But I wish there was just only. fighting. Yeah. You know, no. organizations just like boxing is in. boxing. But the problem with boxing is. it's very difficult to get these guys. because they all have different. promoters. Exactly. And if they all the. same promoter, they all get [ __ ] when. it comes to negotiation, right? If. they're all the same promoter and the.

same managers. You know something about. soccer? No. Yeah, I know a little bit. about it. How they do like the Champions. League? Mhm. they have like for example. let's say the Real Madrid they have a. team that's why I would what I would do. is like I would create a team against. another team for example I have Real. Madrid I've I I sign like the best seven. fighters in the world whoever I want in. different weight classes and you have. for example Barcelona you you sign the.

seven best fighters in the world around. the world you train them in one place. you do like all the strategy strategy. and We meet each other. We do a. competition like a Champions League and. we do like the whole year calendar and. the best wins at the end of we do like. the finals and we give them the space to. recover. We we create like a competition. between teams, not that individual. um people, you know what I mean? Yes. So. I would do something like that. That's a. great idea. But the problem is I think.

guys guys get injured, guys fall out, guys get sick. That's why in in soccer. you have guys that in your position you. always have two or three guys that if. you are injured you have another guy. that can can can change you or switch. you you know between the rounds even and. you are in soccer sometimes it happens. some someone gets injured in. in Estadio stadium and they can switch. them. Yeah that makes sense. But I mean. at the end of the day like imagine say.

if you get scheduled to fight Islam and. uh Islam gets injured and Arman Sooqian. takes his place or something like that. The NBA 82 game grind is done and now. the real fun begins. The NBA playoffs. are here and it's time for all the. highstakes drama, clutch moments, and. jaw-dropping plays. I can't wait. If. you're looking to make the playoffs even. more exciting, DraftKings Sportsbook has. you covered as an official sports. betting partner of the NBA. From the.

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who is going to fight in from the. flyweight division. Who is going to be. your representative from the flyweight. division or from the lightweight. division. I'm like, maybe I bring you. Islam that I have it in I have him in in. in my team or also I could have Charles. Olua in the same team or maybe I bring. Charlesa because I think that against. your team, the guy you have in the. lightweight division, Charles does it. better. Right. Right. Right. They do. that with grappling like Quintet. They. do that. They have like grappling teams.

Yeah. I mean that would be interesting. I just there's there's certain fighters. like I was my main regret in MMA that we. never got to see Fedor fight in the UFC. when he was in his prime. That's true. If if I could have one thing, one fight. in their prime, Fedor Kane Velasquez. Oh, that would fight. Oh my god. Great. In their prime. That would have been. incredible. Incredible. Actually, Kane. was an amazing fighter, bro. That guy had a gas tank that was.

superhuman. So for a heavyweight, it. didn't even make any sense. You would. see guys just fall apart. They would. just wilt. Pure boxing style. Pure. boxing style, great wrestling, incredible chin, and just indomitable. will. Too tough for his own good, which. is why he wind up like towards the end. of his career, he was just his body had. deteriorated so much. He had so many. back injuries, neck injury, shoulder. injury, knee injury. There was actually. What's going on with him? He's He's in. jail right now. He's not Yeah. He got.

sentenced. He got sentenced to 5 years. And the the judge said this was the. least amount he could sentence him. He. didn't want to sentence him. Well, what. happened to him? Do you know that now? Yes. So Kane's son was going to daycare. and there was a man who molested him at. daycare. Kane found out about it, chased. the man in his car and shot at him. He. tried to catch him in his car and shot. at him. Kane gets arrested. Kane stayed. in jail. The guy gets arrested and he. got out on bail. I don't know what's.

happening with the guy. I don't know if. he's been sentenced yet or what, but. this guy molested his son multiple. times. I don't know how many times, but. he did what every father would have. done. You the the if you're not a. father, you do not understand the. murderous rage you would have if some. man molested your baby. You don't. understand. It's it's you would see read. in a way that no one can describe to you.

unless you're a parent. That [ __ ]. anger is I mean if there's ever a plea. for temporary. insanity, that's that's the plea. If. there's ever a person who could. justifiably say, "I was temporarily. insane," it's a father that's chasing. after someone, especially a man who. molests your boy. Wow. Yeah, everybody understands it. Everybody understands it. He should have. never gone to jail. He's not a threat to.

society. He's not a danger. He shouldn't. be in prison. No. And he already did. three years. He was already in jail for. three years. He has been a great example. for so many upcoming guys like for the. new generation. I don't know why guys. like him have to end up in the jail for. something like that. Exactly. He didn't. robber anyone. He didn't Exactly. I. don't know. Exactly. It's It's horrific. It's horrific, you know. I mean, I just. don't understand it. It's um I mean, the. judge's hands were tied. He had to make.

a sentence and this is the I think the. minimum amount. They were trying to give. him 30 years. Yeah. For attempted murder. cuz he was just shooting at this guy. And obviously, when you're driving and. shooting, you could miss him and and. kill a bystander. It's very dangerous. But also, the guy was in a murderous. rage for a good reason. For a good. reason, of course. And if he killed that. guy, the world would be better off. That's my feeling. That's my feeling. That's true. That's also true. A guy. like that walking around and molest.

children should be dead. That I that's. just my feeling. All this thought of I. mean there's a bunch of people on the. left here in the United States that they. have this crazy way of looking at. pedophiles. They they they call them. minor attracted persons. They want to. make it a protected class and say it's, you know, it's like someone being. attracted to someone of the opposite sex. or someone being attracted to someone of. the same sex. Like, no, it's not. No, it's not. You're victimizing children, the most vulnerable and protected people. that we have. Of course, you can't you.

can't even talk to the kids about. something like that. You know what I. mean? Yeah. About like I I heard so many. crazy things about that topic that let's. let's leave it right there. will just. get in. trouble. Yeah. I mean, kill them all. That's how I feel. Kill them all. Anybody wants to do that to children, there's no reason for them to exist. They This I mean, for Yeah. You're just. going to ruin lives. And not just their. lives, but you're going to ruin all the.

people whose lives they ruin cuz they're. all [ __ ] up now. You know, you you you. you kill so much potential from a human. being to do that to a baby. It's just. insane. Wow. It's just [ __ ] insane. So that's unfortunately the story with. Kane right now. And you know he was out. for a while once they let him out. He. was coaching at AKA and you know he's a. amazing coach and we hope. that they going to they going to think. it again and they're going to give him.

the freedom he deserves. Yeah. I mean I. hope Trump pardons him. I mean that's. what I really hope makes something. happen with that. Maybe that's possible. I mean, that might be the best best. option. Um, but anyway, in his prime, uh, Kane Velasquez versus Fedor. That's. my my biggest regret. A fight that we. never got to see cuz when Kane when when. Fedor was fighting in Pride, you know, and this is before the UFC was really. huge, right? Cuz they were huge in Japan. in like 2001, 2002. They were filling.

stadiums in Japan. when the UFC was just. sort of emerging in the United States, it really hadn't hit its peak until. 2005. And why do you think that they. never bring him to to the UFC? Well, they tried. Uh but I got to be careful. how I say this. So Fedor was controlled. by uh some Russian people that were. uh very uh rough men, okay, as it were,

you know, uh gangster type characters. And uh they had a bunch of negotiations. with the UFC, but there were very. unreasonable demands. Like they wanted. part of the promotion. They wanted to. own a piece of everything. They wanted a. lot cuz they knew that with Fedora, they. had their golden ticket and they wanted. to play it out as much as possible. Okay. Negotiations were very intense and. uh. very very confrontational. They got bad. where Dana had to up his security. It.

got It got pretty Yeah, it got heavy. Yeah, these are dangerous people. These. were dangerous people. It got Yeah, I. can tell you more off air. Yeah. Wow. I. didn't know that story. I'll tell you. more off air. It got You should talk to. Dana about it. It got crazy. Wow. They're rough. That's why. Yeah, because. I always thought like why they don't. bring that guy to the UFC because it's. going to be so fun for the for the fans. They wanted to co-promote. They wanted. to be a part of the promotion. They. wanted more than they deserved. They.

didn't just want Fedor to get paid. They. wanted to get paid. They wanted to They. wanted to make a lot of money and they. wanted to get their hooks into the UFC. Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Russian gangsters. Yeah. Yeah. I get it from their perspective how they. rule like everything. Pride was run by. the Yakuza, you know. So, it was. Japanese gangsters and Russian. gangsters. They speak the same language, you know. It was uh they got along fine. But then when they came over to the UFC,

the UFC was like, "That's done. Not the. place. Do it over here." No, we'll give. him a lot of money. We want him to fight. in the UFC. And it never took place, unfortunately. Wow. Yeah. So crazy. Yeah. So, he's about to fight again. Fed. is going to fight bare knuckle. Yeah. I. I heard something about that. Yeah. I. think Connor's promotion. I think it's. Connor's promotion. That BKFD, actually. Do you think he's going to come back, Connor? If I had a bet. No. Yeah. No. why he comes back cuz he hasn't come.

back yet. And he could have, you know, if he really wanted to, he would have. been back in the gym, had a fight. scheduled, drug tested, clean, training, gone through a camp, had a fight. Like, he had a broken toe before the first. fight with Tran Chandler. I understand. that. Okay. Why should you fight in a. broken toe? Especially a guy who moves a. lot like Connor. He relies on movement. so much. Yeah, I get it. So, heal that. toe up. What's that? That's two months. Broken toes is two months. Yeah. And so. then you're back in camp and then you.

you reschedule a fight and then you. fight again. But he didn't. Um and also. partying, constant partying, all these. law legal problems that he has, you. know, scooting around on yachts and, you. know, driving around a Lamborghini. He's. he's wealthy. He's done. Maybe. I mean, the what's really sad is if he comes. back when he's like 39 or 40 and his. body just doesn't have it anymore, you. know? So, right now, he actually has a.

great opponent, Mike Chandler. He could. fight, right? Right. They could fight. right now. Yeah, they could fight. because if they put him against Potty, I. think Patty beats him easy now. Well, a. lot of years off, right? A lot of years. off, you know, on the feet. Conor's a. [ __ ] No, at the in the feed. He's a [ __ ] I I know that he. can knock out like everyone. If he's. still the same guy. Yeah. But the thing. is he's 36 now, you know, and if he's.

natural also. reality, okay, when he breaks his leg, he gets off the drug testing, right? Cuz. he's got to do something to heal his leg. quicker. So, what is he going to do? Well, you're going to take steroids. So, if you're going to take steroids and. you're already. 34ish, your endocrine system gets [ __ ]. up by taking steroids where your body. stops producing testosterone. So, I've. had explain it to me by scientists. before and essentially say if you take. steroids for 6 months, you need at least.

6 months before your body starts. producing testosterone at a normal level. again. Okay? Some people think it's. twice as long. So, that would be a year. a year of no steroids before your body. regains its natural testosterone levels. If it does, depending if it does, you. think that if someone puts steroids in. his body, he he never comes back as. a as his at his normal body. Vtor. Belelffort is the best example of this,

right? He's the best guy that we could. use as an example, but he took bunch of. stuck. [Laughter]. Luke Rockold said when he when he was. weighing in when he fought him, he said, "This guy's got muscles on his [ __ ]. teeth." Yeah. On his mark. Exactly, bro. But if you go back to Vtor when he. fought Anderson Silva before they had. testosterone use exemptions, he didn't. look like that at all. No, he looked old. actually. He looked like his body was.

relaxed. Yeah. Because Vtor Yeah. So. this is the look at the difference. before you saw it and after you saw it. I mean that is a crazy example. So when. he fought Chris Weidman, his body looked. soft and like his muscles look empty. They just didn't look the same. And that. was just a couple of years after test. They [ __ ] up with the testosterone use. exemption because what they did was they. would test guys and if you're low on. testosterone, oh, you can have a.

testosterone use exemption. But you. could get low on testosterone in a night. if you wanted to. All you'd have to do. is eat a bunch of shitty food and drink. and stay up all night and your body's. natural levels of testosterone would be. low. So you could go get drug you who. has normal healthy levels of. testosterone. You could wreck your body. on purpose, then go get drug tested and. they say, "Oh, Ilia, you have low. testosterone. I'm going to prescribe to. you testosterone exemption." And so then. you go and take testosterone, you become.

a [ __ ] animal and and you're healthy. You don't need it. So there was a lot of. guys that were taking it that didn't. need it. So you think that at this point. there are guys in the UFC that are take. uh taking like uh steroids, let's say. I. would imagine there's for sure someone. doing something they're not supposed to. do. Yeah. Wow. I don't know because at. this point I feel that they are so. strict with the they are so strict. There's a lot of guys that do their. camps in far away lands and I think that.

like people always used to joke around. about Dagistan, you know, like try try. getting a USADA guy into Dagistan, you. know, the moment he lands, everybody's. going to call everybody drug test in in. in Dagistan. They they test Khabib for. example in Dagistan. No, I'm sure I'm. sure they must have. And what if someone. landed from an issue where some guys. from USADA and Kabib's camp they had. like they had some issue some issue.

Yeah, they had some I remember like. something like that. But you go over. there like and you know you want to get. out you got to be careful. Nah, you get. that. Yeah. But I would imagine that if. you want to avoid being tested all the. time, like say like if you are in. America and you know you live in. Arizona, whatever, they'll visit you all. the time. They'll test you a bunch, you. know, and there's some people that have. been tested a bunch. They get tested a. lot. And then some people that don't get. tested as much. And if you're going to.

go and do your camp in Thailand or. you're going to go do your camp in. Dagistan or it's a lot more difficult to. get to you to test you randomly. Yeah. But they can anyway, so you can trust on. on if they come or not. But there's. short acting stuff. There's like um when. uh Alex Rodriguez. is that A-Rod, right? Yeah. When he was. fighting or excuse me, when he was. playing baseball rather, they were. taking gummies, testosterone gummies. Okay. And the testosterone literally.

only lasts for a few hours and it's out. of your system. Wow. Yeah. I never heard. that. Yeah. There's certain stuff that. you can take like EPO that's very. shortlasting, very difficult to test, very shortlasting. And there's in my. case, I don't like that because I. wouldn't feel good with myself, right? I'm I'm going to feel like I'm cheating, right? I I don't deserve the the whim. because I'm cheating. I'm a cheater. I I. can't have that thought that that. thought about myself all the time. I.

when I walk inside the octagon, I feel. that I didn't cheat and I deserve the. win and that's why I'm going to win. Well, that's why guys like BJ Penn are. so impressive cuz BJ Penn was clean when. everybody was cheating. Yeah, cuz back. then it was really difficult to test. All they tested was at the weigh-ins. So, at the weigh-ins, that's like an. intelligence test. Like if you cheat and. take steroids intelligently, by the time. you get to the weigh-ins, you're going.

to be clean. If you do it with a doctor, I know camps and I don't want to say the. names, but they had scientists working. for the camps. And the scientists, these. doctors would study guys blood work and. make sure that they were clean by the. time they got into camp or by the time. they got into the weigh-ins. So when. they were on the scale, they still had. all the benefits of steroids, but they. had no steroids in their system and. their body hadn't started to deteriorate. yet from the lack of steroids. I know. some camp camps also that they use.

steroids. Yeah, for sure. But yeah, for. me, you can have all the muscles in the. world, but if you are not mentally. strong because that's so specific moment. when you are in the backstage, you need. your mind so badly. You need it more. than your body sometimes. because as I told you, you can have all. the muscles in the world, but you need. this muscle as strong as possible, you. know. And if you know you cheated and. you know you're cheating bad. Yeah. That.

you are not in what you in reality are. saying that you are. Right. Right. Right. That that's a tough one. I don't. want to I don't want to see myself in. that situation. Never. That's a. champions mindset. Yeah. Yeah. That's a. real champions mindset. Some guys, they. just want to do anything to win. They. want to do anything to win. When and if. they have to cheat to win, they'll. cheat. They'll And they they'll justify. it by saying everybody cheats. Yeah. I. I'm a God believer and and my mindset is.

like, of course, I want to win. I. prepare myself to win. But if he. destroys my plans is because maybe my. plans could destroy me. So I don't want. to have anything because I want to have. it if he decides it. If God decides to. to give it to me, I accept it. I will do. everything to get it because I desire it. from all my heart. And if he says that. if I desire it, I have the faith, I will.

get it. M so this and the reality is if. you give everything you have and you. lose you win a lesson and you realize. you're not at the level that you need to. be there's never a lose or you win or. you learn and learn learning is also a. winning right where did you develop your. mindset have you got any mental coaching. did you read books on psychology I I. read a lot of books I try to read at. least uh 30 minutes a day but it's every.

day every day what you do and and and. your daily habits it it what's what. makes the difference right because we. can decide our future but we can decide. our habits and our habits decide our. future. yes yeah so like what kind of stuff do. you read. uh I read more like. um I I read a lot of books I love. reading books. uh of self-development books.

Uh. also how can I tell you in. and yeah this is the most of the books I. I I read self-development books I I read. uh. biographies of of the people that I like. for example do Donald Trump Warren. Buffett I read that kind of people. businessmen yeah I try to. why do you read businessmen's. biographies because at the end of the.

day. Right now, I'm in sports, but at. some point, I'm going to retire and I'm. going to make a I have to make a living. from from something, right? Because I'm. I'm not going to be fighting my whole. life and I don't want it even. So, yeah, I want to I want to prepare myself. So, if you want to have extraordinary life, you have to be extra extraordinary. person, right? Yes. Yeah. Absolutely. And I'm trying to to become an. extraordinary person in all walks of. life. In all walks of life. Yeah. So, do.

you have an idea of when you want to. retire? Um, how old do you know? Till I enjoy. 28. 28. 28. Till I enjoy. I don't know. how many fights. Maybe till 32, 34. Really? Yeah. I don't. know. Till I enjoy. Right now, I'm. enjoying. I don't know what's going to. happen tomorrow. So, you'll take that. road when it comes. What do you mean? uh. you'll find when it when that happens. when you no longer enjoy then you will.

go on a different path. then you will retire. I don't know right. now I I I want to become a lightweight. world champion. I want to hold that belt. too. So I don't know what's what's going. to happen then if I'm going to keep. motivated. It's kind of difficult. This. is a fight game. Five game is so hard. so hard because you have to go in and. shake someone's head off and you can't. you can't be that soft guy, you know.

what I mean? Like that kind guy. You. have to be you you got to have that. testosterone app. You got to be vicious. Exactly. Yeah. You got to be technical, you got to be smart, but you also have. to be vicious. And at the same time, everyone from my family is involved in. in in my career. You know, at some point. maybe I will end. up do a different things. Maybe some. businesses. Right now I'm I'm I'm doing. different things and I'm enjoying it. also. So you're doing different things. outside of fighting. Yeah, I have a.

promotion in Spain right now. Oh, MMA. promotion. MMA promotion. What's it. called? Wo. Wo. And the goal with Wo is. to to because as you mentioned when you. say wo, how you how you spelling that? Uh way of the warrior. Oh wow. Okay. So. from Spain to get to the UFC before was. so difficult. I had to do so many crazy. things to to get to the UFC. But right. now, we create WO and actually we are in.

the UFC fight pass. Everyone can get in. in in that promotion fight if you have. the the skills, if you are ready, someone's going to see you and they're. going to sign you in the UFC. The. promoter's life is a hard life. That's a. hard job. Yeah. You think so? Yeah. It's. very entertaining to be honest. When I. talked to Dana at least promoting for. the UFC, like I was talking to him this. weekend and he was telling me all the. issues that they're having and with. different fights that was ask I was. asking him some questions like what are. you doing with this? What are you doing. with that? And he starts telling me that.

oh this guy wants that this I won't. fight this guy. He told you something. about me. Maybe maybe a little bit if he. did I can't tell you. I did ask who. you're going to fight and they said. we're working on things. But uh he was. actually specifically talking about um. what happens if Bal wins. You know, because uh Islam and Bal have. been they've been talking about Islam. fighting Bal. That's going to happen. I. would like that to happen if Bal wins, but that's an if. Jack Dela Matalena is.

a bad [ __ ] He's good, man. That. guy's good. Even if he wins, they're. going to make that fight happen against. Islam. You think so? Yeah. Well, if Jack Damatelena wins, then Jack is the new welterweight. champion and you know, maybe he fights. Islam. That makes a lot of sense. The. problem with Islam fighting Bal is that. they train together and I think, you. know, they'd kind of sit. How many guys. we we see fight fight fighting between. each other that they used to train. before? Oh, I agree. I mean, I think.

they should fight. I definitely think. they should fight. I think Kabib doesn't. like that idea. Yeah. Yeah. That's how I feel. But it's not. just that. I mean, Jana is always. putting out a million fires. I mean, think about it. They have 500 fighters. on the way on in the roster at least. And, you know, there's all these things. that are happening and like like the. Arman Surukian thing like his back hurts. the day of the fight. Wow. He's got to.

pull out like this is [ __ ] crazy. This is, you know what I mean? Like. imagine that you have this whole. promotion based around this uh elite. fighter who's who fought Islam in his. first fight, short notice. They they go. to a very close decision, a very close. fight. Arman's gotten a lot better. Islam's gotten a lot better. Then. they're going to fight again and then. the day of he hurts his back. Crazy. It happens. Yeah. Very crazy. Yeah. But if you will be in the Danish. place, who would be my next opponent?

Islam. 100%. 100%. I wish they I tried. to tell him that this weekend. That. would be a great fight. Yeah, it's the. that's the fight to make. Uh because you. have a world champion versus a world. champion. Like if anybody deserves a. fight for the world title in the next. weight class, it's you. It's it's. simple. It's simple. You knocked out Max. Holloway. I mean, it's simple. You. knocked out Alexander Vulcanowski, one. of the greatest of all time. It's. simple. That's a no-brainer. That's the. fight. You know, he doesn't want to.

fight 45 anymore. He wants to fight 55. World titers. And nobody would argue. with that. That would be a huge fight. Everybody would get excited about it. Yeah. Yeah, hopefully they they make. those fights happen. Yeah, hopefully. I. don't have any say. Like I said, I'd get. rid of the cage. I'd get rid of. standups. I get I'd [ __ ] everything up. for them. I would make it uh less. marketable probably. I would. Anyways, if they give me the fight with Charles, it's going to be one, too. That's a. great fight, too. That's a great fight,

too. There's a lot of guys in that. division. You know, there's there's a. lot of good fights for you at 155. pounds. Do you have a timeline of when. you would like to fight at 155? I would like to fight with with Islam. That's for sure. I I would like to fight. him. But if they don't give you that. fight if they give you like a number one. contender fight. When would you like to. fight next? I I wouldn't fight for a. number one contender fight. You only. want to fight for the title. Yeah, of. course. Really? Okay. Of course. I. understand. That makes sense to me.

Look, also it's the most marketable. fight. Everybody else has lost to him, right? I don't care if Islam decides. that he doesn't want to fight me. I. don't care. I sit till you're going to. have to fight me. Okay? You say that you. are the world champion. You're going to. keep dominating the the division, all. that. I'm here. You you you can't keep. avoiding me all the time. So, you would. just sit on the sidelines rather than. fight someone else. I don't think that. they're going to do that. I don't think. they they would put me on a sideline. because they asked me to. I I wade the.

bell because I told him that I wouldn't. fight in 145 again, but I get the. promise that I would fight for. Tyler in my next fight. Mhm. So, how. much time you will stop me and from the. fighting? So, they did give you a. promise that your next when you vacated. the belt that your next fight if they. give that that chance to everyone, why. why not to me? They gave it to Henry. Sahul. They gave it to Conor McGregor. They gave it to George Aier. They gave.

it to to Jo. They gave it to everyone, right? And I proved that I deserve that. shot. As you said, I I knock out uh two. of the all-time greats. Two two of the. all-time greats. Two of the greats. Walk. who who was like dominating everyone in. in 145 division. And Max. Holloway, great fighters, bo both of. them, especially after Max Holloway's. victory over Justin Gachi, which is like. the greatest victory of his career. Yeah. to knock him out after that and no.

one did it. Yeah. Yeah, I agree. I mean, I'd say world title fight, but I don't. get to make the rules. And the last. fight he had was in 155, right, against. Justin Gachi, who also fought for the. title. Yep. So, yeah. And then the other. thing is there's not really a compelling. challenger at 155 other than you. If you. look at it like he's kind of cleaned out. the division. There's no no one else. I. mean, Arman's got to build himself back. up. He's not going to get a title shot.

I would put Justin Gachi against Patty. Pimble. Me against Islam. Once I pass. him, I get the title. And you you you. put me against Patty because I think. that he he's gonna You think Patty's. going to beat Justin Gage? Easy. Wow. Really easy. Yeah. Easy. Really easy. Yeah. Wow. That's a crazy thing to say. because Justin Gage is a [ __ ] animal. Yeah, but he doesn't know how to grapple. and pen knows how. But he's a division.

one wrestler. He knows how to grapple. You don't think he knows how to gra? He. just chooses not to. He chooses to stand. and fight. I don't think so. Did you. ever saw him submitting someone? I don't. believe he's ever submitted someone, but. I think that's because he likes to just. crush people. He likes to bang it out. and fight. He used to fight. What. everyone likes is to dominate people and. and to win as soon as possible. If you. have the ability to submit someone as. soon as you can, you would do it.

I think that's your mindset. I think. Justin Gates's mindset is to be the most. violent person alive. Yeah. Yeah. And I. think that's one of the reasons why he. lost some fights early in his career. because he took unnecessary chances and. he fought recklessly. Then as he. adjusted later in his career, he fought. more intelligently. He took a lot of. risks still, but he was more intelligent. about it. He was more intelligent about. the way he approached fights and then he. started winning and beating guys and. that you know like where he might have.

like thrown himself into wars before. like the Michael Johnson fight was just. chaos. Just a war just the first fight. in the UFC just throws himself into. chaos that fight. Yeah, chaos. Yeah, he. would just throw he would just try to. see he was like Michael Chandler but a. better fighter, you know, just more. successful at it at a high level. So, you pick Justin Gachi over Patty? I. don't say that. Um, I do think that. Michael Chandler was 38 years old with a.

lot of miles on him. Although he's a. [ __ ] animal. And how old is Justin. Gage? Justin's probably 35. How old is. Justin? 36. Turns 37 in November. Yeah, that's when it starts to slip away. If. you're natural everything after 35, like. this is one of the most extraordinary. things about Alexander Vas. I don't. think that he's the type of guy that. takes care of his body all the time and. he's like very strict with his health. I. think he slept more at at day than at.

night. Oh, you think so? Did he parties? I think so. I don't know. They put the. camera on him on the last pay-per-view. and he looked like he was so high. Like this high I'm not worried about. What I'm worried about is drunk. Cuz. high doesn't give you the hangover. High. doesn't kill your body. Drunk kills your. body. If guys are in between camps. getting fat and drinking, that's never a. good sign. That's a bad sign. That. that's because you're not just not.

training, you're deteriorating your. body. You know, if Justin Gay is just. smoking a little weed, I'm not worried. about that. Um it's not the best for. focus. He doesn't seems to be that guy. that drinks a lot. No, I don't think so. I don't think so. Cocaine is the worst. worst. When you hear guys doing coke, that's the worst. That's the one that. deteriorates you more than anything. I. never ever saw a cocaine in my life. Me. neither. I never never done cocaine. either. I when I was a kid, I had a a. friend whose cousin was hooked on. cocaine. I got to see it up close. Yeah.

I was like, "Fuck that stuff." That's a. scary one for fighters, too, because the. thrill of cocaine, for some reason, is. exciting to people who love like. exciting things. Like, there's something. about fighters are adrenaline junkies. They like to be pumped up and yeah, Connor seems to enjoy it, which is one. of the things that makes me think he. probably won't come back. But if he does. come back, it's got to be now, you know, again at 36 years old now. Patty. Pimpblelet,

that's the fight. That'll be a big. That's going to be a big fight. Big. fight. Yeah. But I don't even think. Connor's in the drug testing pool. anymore. No. I don't believe so. I don't believe. so. See if you can Google that, find out. if he's in a draw. I think he pulled. back. He's gonna come back. You think. so? Yeah. If they give the the. opportunity to to I don't know to to. guys like I don't know what 40 years old. like. Arloski. You can have so many names that.

they fought at four years at four years. age. Why not Conor? I know that you want. a world title fight at 155, but would. you make an exception for a Conor. McGregor fight in 155? But right now, right now? No. No. No. Good for you. Do you think it's going to. be excited if I beat Islam and then I. give the the the chance to Connor? No. I. mean, like right now before Islam, like. if the the UFC calls you up and says, "I. know you want a world title fight. We.

guarantee you a world title fight after. this." Actually, we had that talks like. Really? Yeah. But yeah, I don't know. What was that? What was that talk? Tell. me what that talk was like. No, no, no. Come on. Come on. Come on. I did this one and I'm going to get some. calls that you know how the UFC is. They. are like very specific. Don't say. anything, right? To no one. Well, no. one's listening. You can tell everybody. Yeah. Yeah. Only couple of million of people is. listening. Yeah.

It'll slip right by. Yeah. If they offer. me a fight against Connor right now, we'll say why not? Why not? Why not? Why? I wouldn't say no. I wouldn't say. no. Just for the numbers to get a cut of. that pay-per-view and it hits two. million pies. Yeah. Woo. Why not? That's. the thing about Connor is like still. even though he might not be the best. fighter in the world right now, he's. still the he's the golden goose. Of. course he is. Yeah. That's something you. can't take kind of amazing. you know. that still he still guarantees that many.

eyeballs will go to see him. You know, it just that would be a a great one. But. what excites me more is the fight with. Patty. Really? Yeah, that fight excites. me even more. And if they could put that. fight in Spain in the Bay Nabu Stadium. Oh, I I know that Dana doesn't like to. to to put the events in stadium, but. that's the only stadium in the world. that they can close the roof. Oh, okay.

Yeah. And this prepared for that kind of. How many people? 80,000. You get 80,000 in Spain easy, too. Yeah. If you're fighting in Spain, no problem. Oh my god, that would be insane. I might. have to go to Spain for that. And and a. lot of people could travel from England. to Spain. Oh yeah. And that happens very. often. But if they do it in Spain, it's. got to be on Spain time. They can't do. that [ __ ] that they did when Leon.

Edwards fought. It has to be in Spain. time. But I think that the with. the like the negotiations they they are. having with ESPN and I don't know in. which platform they are going to put the. UFC events. They're going to ask for space for four. or five events in Europe in the prime. time for Europe. Europe this is listen. Europe time prime time is fine because. it's in the afternoon in America. That's. fine. So the fights at 1:00 in the.

afternoon you people watch football. games 100 million people watch a. football game stills to be a virgin uh. market. You know what I mean? You got. 500 million people in Europe. It's more. than the United States even, right? And. if they did it on Netflix, everybody has. Netflix. Everybody has Netflix. That. might happen. That's why they're in. negotiation right now. That will be a. massive one in Spain. In Spain against.

that that pimple. What happened with you two? Because I. saw the video where you guys are yelling. at each other. Was it in a hotel or. something? Yeah, he said something about. Georgia. Oh, he said something about. your country. Yeah, he What did he say? He said like, "Now I understand what why. the why the Russians are are um bombing. Giorgio or something like putting bombs. in Georgia." Like, whoa. Don't joke with that. You can joke. about me. Say whatever you want to say.

about me. Whatever. He's a mushroom. He's this. He's that. Da da da. Don't. talk about war because you don't know. how is it, right? That's a crazy thing. to say. Don't say that. Yeah. So, that. was the beginning of it. It just out of. nowhere he said that. He said that on. Twitter. Oh, wow. He said that on. Twitter. Maybe he was too high, too. drunk. I don't know. He was talking.

[ __ ] you know? I mean, it gets people. to pay attention. He's really good at. getting people to pay attention, you. Yeah, he is. He's really good at that. I. mean, he could be the next Conor. McGregor star. Like that kind of a star. where the whole world is watching. That. weird personality. Yes. Yeah, he has. that. Well, he's very disarming cuz. people they see I talked about this in. the last pay-per-view. I said I said. it's a very sneaky trick because guys. like you, you look at you, the way you. carry yourself, the way you that's a. fighter. Like you look at that guy's a. dangerous [ __ ] But when you see.

Patty, he's dancing like this. His hair. is flopping around like he's in the. Beatles, you know? He's like, he seems. silly, but then he [ __ ] people up. And. so I think people he [ __ ] people up. like Michael Chandler, right? But when. he he he faced a real fight, who who did. he face? Well, he hasn't faced anyone. that good yet, but he [ __ ] up Michael. Chandler better than Charles Olivera. did. It does. And Charles Oluea even. this what what I was telling you before, like when you got 10 losses in your.

record, that's not one, two, three, four, five, six. That's 10. Yeah. Like. when you walk in with a guy that has 10. loes, the level of confidence is. completely different. It's completely. different than when you walk in with a. guy that it's undefeated, right? He's a. dangerous guy in the striking, in the. ground game, everywhere. You you look at. him, he's a dangerous guy. He never. tastes a lose. That's a different. mentality. You got to you're going to. have to kill him to give up. He's not.

going to even give up. You're going to. have to kill him. In the case of. Charles, if he finds some adversity, he's going to go to the to to to the. ground. He's gonna sit and he's gonna be. waiting like till you you end up the. fight. This is what I think. This is. what I feel. This is what I see. That. was certainly the case early in his. career. I think things changed with him. when he had a child. Um then he went on. that run and became a champion. And like. when he beat Justin Gai, when he beat.

all those guys, he was he was pretty. elite, man. He was really [ __ ] good. When he beat Chandler, when Chandler had. beat him up in that first round, he came. back in the second round and [ __ ] him. up. Who? Chandler. Yeah. Yeah, I know what you're saying. I. get it. Uh Connor's been tested 11 times. last year, five the year before, none. this year. Yeah, that's what I'm saying. This He was tested this year. No, none. this year. None this year. That's what. I'm saying. 11 times last year. Yeah.

I'm not sure if he's in the testing pool. anymore. I don't know. I don't know. You. know, I've heard no plans. You know, the. UFC would tell me. I would say, "What's. going on with Connor?" And I don't even. bring it up anymore. It's I think with. him it's going to happen like instantly. if something happens. Well, that's. crazy. I mean, if he's going to prepare, he needs like a real long camp to really. get his body back to fighting shape,

like real fighting shape. And he's got. to remember, you know, what happened. when he came back from boxing and then. fought Dustin Porier. It depends who. he's going to face because if you put. him against against me, he needs to die. and be burned again. Yeah, I hear. you. Yeah. If when you when you think. about like your division when you were. um the the champion at 145, would he.

have been the fight that you would have. wanted when he was in his prime at 45? Would that be the number one fight that. you would wanted at 145? For sure. Yeah. For sure. My god. For sure. He was a. dangerous guy in 145. He was so big. He. was big, dangerous. Yeah, he had that. knockout power. Smart. Yeah. Yeah. One shot knockout power. Yeah. He. He had that. Yeah. But when he would. make 145, I remember uh that was back.

when the weigh-ins were literally right. there. You'd weigh a guy in and then. they they would cheer in front of the. crowd. Now the weigh-ins are early and. it's a ceremonial weigh- in. So when. Connor would weigh in, he would look. like death. death. Yeah. See if you can find the. video of the weigh-ins with Conor. McGregor versus Jose Aldo. He looks like. he was on a boat in the middle of the. ocean for 6 months. Like, look at him. Look at his face. Wow. Look at his face.

Look at that one right there with Mike. Goldberg. Click that one with Mike. Goldberg right here. Yeah. Click on. that. My god. Look how [ __ ] skinny he. looks. Look at his face, his cheekbones. He looks like he just got out of like. some Russian prison. Like, you know what. I mean, bro? That one on the right is. insane. It's [ __ ] insane. with muscles. That's insane. I wonder how much weight. he lost.

I think he he he walks around in 185. So, he lost 40 pounds before he fought. That's crazy. He fought also at at the welterweight. division, right? Yes, he fought uh well. he fought Donald Cerrone who was really. not a welterweight either. He was a 155. pounder, you know, but he wanted to. fight welterweight when he came back. Like when they were talking about. Chandler, he said he wanted to fight at. middleweight and Chandler was like, "Okay, like but you know, part of me. wonders like whether he was ever really.

going to come back." You know, it's. you know what I mean? He's going I. really think that at some point he's. going to he's going to come back because. I don't think that he he he wants to. leave the sport with a defeat, right? This what uh what I don't think I think. that he's going to come back, try to get. the win, and then retire in the octagon. Well, I'd like to see that. I'd like to. see him one more time. Um it'd be good. for him, too, to actually go to a real.

camp and stop partying, you know. will. be good for him, for his family, for. everyone, for everyone. But but at some. point, he's going to stop. He's got a. lot of legal problems, too. You know, there's a lot going on with him in. Ireland. But he he's running for the. president. Well, they're talking about. prosecuting him for old tweets, too. Ireland Yeah, Ireland is going crazy. with their woke [ __ ] with uh with the. restrictions and censorship. The same. way the UK is. It's it's really scary. stuff. But they're prosecuting people. for tweets. That's crazy. Yeah. England.

arrested like 4,000 people last year for. posting things on social media. No way. Yeah. Yeah. What did they say? You don't even have. to say anything crazy. You know, you. could just say, "I don't want any more. immigrants in my country," and they'll. they'll [ __ ] prosecute you. It's. really crazy. Wow. Yeah. It's it's. that's not a freedom. No, it's not at. all. Free speech. That's it's. totalitarian government. And it's it's. scary because it's uh they're they're.

using it to silence people to silence. people's uh opinions and crazy. Um see. if you can find what's going on with. Connor because there was something about. Conor McGregor possibly being prosecuted. for social media posts from I believe it. was. 2023. Some recent posts that he had made. where they were going to bring them back. up and prosecute him for it. And he had. also like the the case with the rabbits. and all that. Yeah. And I think because. he wants to run for president, of.

course, then they're going to use the. law to try to stop him because look, he's very popular in Ireland and he. might win, you know? I mean, if if these. people think that their country is being. invaded by to some people from Ireland, like what are the odds that Con becomes. the the president? They told me like. probably zero. Conor McGregor will not. face charges over social media posts. made before and during the Dublin riots. Yeah. You know what? They said that. about Trump, too. That Trump wasn't. gonna win either. They said Trump wasn't.

Yeah. All the [ __ ] newspapers, everything was saying the chances are. none. No, but I asked to the people. I. didn't ask. I didn't read the depends on. who you're talking to, though. Yeah. You. know, it it really depends on how he. conducts himself. To him. Oh, to him. Okay. Okay. They're like, "No way.". Yeah. Yeah. Look, he should be fighting. and he should be fighting while he can. because you don't want to be 49 years. old sitting back thinking if you could. have just won more. Could have got it. together if I just stopped.

partying. I really think that he's going. to come back at some point, but we'll. see. There's also the problem of that. shin, you know, when a shin snaps like. that, that's a nobody really comes back. from that and fights. His body is. [ __ ] He his toy is fact. His chin is. fact. his body's [ __ ] with with that. that much parties and drugs and all. that. You're going to have to pay that. price at some point. Yeah. And you are. you are paying the price with your. health. Yeah. Which is the dumbest thing. you can do in in your entire life. It.

is. It is a dumb thing especially for an. athlete. Exactly. Yeah. He he also. suffered a lot with the weight cuts. That's a a big damage for your body. That's also one of the reasons why I. changed the the weight class because I. realized that my health is the most. important thing in in in my life. You c. you can have everything in in this life, but if you are not healthy, you don't. have anything. Yeah. You you know, you're when you're cutting that much. water out of your body, you're.

essentially getting to death's door. You're getting to death's door 24 hours. before you fight. But you at a world. championship level, which is crazy. You sometimes feel that you're really. going to. die. I wasn't able to sleep in 48 hours. at all because I was so dehydrated. My. body was so like skinny and I was. dreaming with water, with food, with. everything. I was my social media and. reals everything was about the food foot.

food. Everything was about food. At that. moment you don't give a [ __ ] about. anything material about anything. So. tell me when you start. So if you were. going to make 145 on Saturday, what is. your weight cut like or on Friday? What. is your weight cut like for the week? When does it start? And what do you. weigh before it starts? So okay, basically I start a weight cut since the. first day I started the training camp, which is 12 weeks. Really? Yeah. I'm on.

like very strict diet and I have only. one cheat meal a week on Saturday, on. Wednesday, whenever I choose it. I have. just one cheat. meal. And at the same time, you have to. perform at the highest level. You have. to train as a [ __ ] all the time. And you have. like 1,800 calories in your body and you. burn four 4,000 calories. Wow. So you. are wasting so much energy but you.

aren't getting. back a very low. So that [ __ ] with your. mind right that [ __ ] with your mind. and you don't feel happiness you feel. like stressed. depressed. You don't find the happiness. in anything. They could bring you all. the money in the world but you don't. give a [ __ ] at at that moment in about. anything material. So, you're doing it. all through camp, but when you get to. fight week, what do you what do you. weigh at? Uh, we do the the the water.

load. I start on Sunday with eight. liters, and I don't have carbohydrates. I don't have any sodium, uh, salts and. all that. Uh, do you drink distilled. water? Uh, distilled water. Yeah. Oh, distilled. Do you know what I'm saying? No, no, no, no. Just just normal water. Okay. H I'm not not having. carbohydrates, uh sodiums and fibers. You you say fibers fibras. Yeah, fiber. Yeah. I only have fat and and proteins.

in a very small portions. And I drink. eight liters on on Sunday, then eight. again on. Monday, six on Thursday. Wednesday I. drink four I think. And then on on. Thursday I don't drink anything till. Friday till the weightins really. And. before the weighins I start to. dehydration the the dehydration like we. do one session in the.

morning and I have to lose almost from. two to three kilos and the rest I have. to I have to lose at at night because I. always like to go to the bed uh on on. weight. I don't I don't like to wake up. in the morning and have to cut the the. last part in the morning on Friday. morning. When did you start drinking. wine before weigh-ins? I did it twice in. my in my career. It was once in in Las. Vegas. I was supposed to fight with I.

was fighting with Damon. Jackson and I. had I had like. still six kilos or something like this. That's a lot. That's a lot of weight to. cut. And the guy who was uh taking care. of my nutrition, he he called us and he. told me, "Drink wine. Drink half half. bar of wine." I'm like, "You sure?" Yes. He told me because if you drink a liter. of wine, you're going to wake up the. next day if you don't put anything else.

in your body with two liters less. dehydration. Yeah. Because the the the. alcohol it's going to. uh procate the dehydration. I did it and it. works. And after that I did it in my. next fight. But then I was like, I don't feel good. I don't feel good doing this in the wake. up. This is kind of crazy. It's fun.

It's fun because everyone wants to I. don't know. Everyone is almost dying. that that that night I was like partying. with my team so skinny drinking wine. I'm like what the [ __ ] we doing? And. after one day I have to I have to fa. face a monster in inside the. octagon experience in life. And so then. you weigh in and then what is the. rehydration process like? And so I I.

used to drink the. electrolytes until I don't start to pee. I don't put any food in my body. I drink. almost for three four hours in small. portions. And right now we are so lucky. that we have the performance institute. We have great nutritionist in in in in. that program that help us to to do it. from the right way. So I start drinking. in half liter of of electrolytes for.

example let's say for 20 minutes I have. to drink that I can drink more then one. one that 20 minutes passed I have to. drink the another bottle and like that. progressively. and so once you start to pee then you. allow yourself to eat food. Exactly. And. what kind of food are you eating? Most likely carbohydrates. I don't used. to eat any proteins because it doesn't. help you at all to to have a great.

performance in inside the octal, right? Because the protein. doesn't give you. any how say how to. say glucosa glucose. Yeah, glucose that. your body needs at at that time. You. everything you need it's. electrolytes and carbohydrates. That's. all you need. Not even fibers. Okay. So, like what kind of food? Like. pasta? Like that kind of stuff? Pasta. How good does that taste after all that.

time, bro? Amazing. Amazing. You You. could cook the pasta for me that day. And I don't know how good you cook, but. it will be amazing. Amazing. I don't. care about So, you've gone so long. without carbohydrates. I have like almost a week and a half. without. carbohydrates and I'm struggling for 12. weeks because I have only one cheat. meal. So once I I finish the cheat meal, I know that in one week I'm not going to.

have another cheat meal. So I'm going to. have to eat whatever they tell me to to. to eat. Like I wake up, I know that I'm. going to have two eggs with one slice of. bread and I'm going to have to train I. don't know how much in the morning and. then in the afternoon I'm going to have. to train again and I'm going to have the. same food all the time. And the the good. thing about that is that my. wife she she was like a very important.

part in my last training camps because. he made. my my diet more more fun. You know, I. didn't had to to repeat the food all the. time because when I was in charge of. that, just imagine what I was eating all. the time the same. All the same. just. the same boring food just get through. the month food because I didn't even had. like the the opportunities that I have. right now. Right now I have a chef. I. have I set up my home with everything.

Everything is so comfortable. But before. I had to cook for myself, uh go to the. supermarket doing everything for by. myself and it was tough. So all the. foods weighed out, all the calories are. measured, everything's very systematic. Um, so with this extra 10 lbs, how much. better do you think you'll be able to. perform inside the octagon? Because I. would imagine physically that's got to. take a toll on you. As good as your.

performances were, and they were. spectacular, but as good as your. performances were, your body could not. have been operating at 100%. 100%. You are going to see me at 155. that I'm going to touch someone and I'm. going to take his lights out. Even if I. I don't need to touch his chin. I just. touch his head and it will explode. I. feel so powerful at that weight class. So power, so stable in the ground. Like, do you want to wrestle? Let's wrestle.

No problem. And I have the gas tank for. five days, not five rounds. Do you think. that a lot of fighters maybe diminish. their potential by competing at a lower. weight class for too long? It depends. It. depends. Some of them, yes. Some of them. know because I think there are guys. fighting in 145. that they could fight in 135 because. they are smaller. They like Josie Aldo. Like Jos Aldo. I mean he was one of the.

best ever at 145 and really looks. fantastic now at 135. Exactly. And says. this is the first time at 35 in his. career that he's ever taken nutrition. seriously and had a diet. But at the. same time he was a world champion right. for so long. one of the best and one of. the best. May May he he would cut the. weight at 135 and he wouldn't succeed at. this level, right? Cuz he wouldn't have. the energy, but Jose Aldo was big at 145. back in the day. He would struggle to. make 145 earlier in his career, but I.

just think he wasn't doing it the right. way like you're doing it. You know, I. think athletes of today are much more. systematic about that and they have more. information about the nutrition. And. they have we we got more help from the. performance institute as they told you. like the UFC performance institute is. incredible there when when I remember. when they first opened it I was a little. skeptical. I'm like who's going to use. this? What is the big deal? And then I. went there I was like oh bro okay crazy. This is amazing. Without them you. wouldn't see many of the fights that we. have seen. A lot of people would miss.

the weight. A lot of people. Yeah. So at. 155 you're going to be able to eat more. You're going to be able to train more. or you'll be able to recover better. Like everything much better. They're. really taking care of you. I can't wait. I can't wait to see it. I can't wait. either. I can't wait. I want to fight. So, take me through like what is a. typical training week like for you? How. much strength and conditioning do you.

do? How much uh how much do you. concentrate on technique? How much do. you spar? Outside or inside the training camp? Um, let's go with outside the training camp. first. So, out outside the training. camp, I try to develop my skills in. every discipline. Like I try to to not. mix it up. I don't train MMA at all. I. do boxing classes, wrestling classes. I. try to learn every discipline separate. Why do you do that? Because when the.

training camp. comes, I try to mix it up and polish. everything that I have been able to to. learn till that moment. You know what I. mean? Everything that work worked for me. in in wrestling and boxing in in in the. places where I feel comfortable like. that's why I want to develop all the. time my my knowledge. I want to get. better all the time. And I can get. better if I only go and train MMA and I. only drill the same things all the time, right? My head is like get getting stuck.

getting stuck, you know? I need to learn. new techniques because I I I think that. I have much more to learn in every. discipline. Like in BJJ, you never end. up learning all the time. You learn new. things, you see new things, you want to. try it and it it takes some time. That's. that technique works for you and and. when you're rolling with someone for. example. Right. Right. So yeah, one.

thing is what you know and the other is. what you do with what you know. How do. you know how much time to allocate to. each specific discipline? Because. something like Brazilian jiu-jitsu, it's. a neverending journey. Like there's so. many techniques. It's it's un there's so. many different combinations of things. that you could do to a human body when. you're grappling. So the thing about me is like you have. to decide what kind of style do you want. to have. Do you want to fight from the.

guard? You you how do you say guard? Yeah. You want to pass the guard like. there are different styles. Right. Right. But at some point I I was I was. like fighting all the time from the. guard. I was doing like the beating. balls, baby balls, everything because I. needed to to feel what the people feels. when I'm passing the guard, the the. guard. Yeah. You know what I mean? So, the same thing with boxing for example, someone has a defensive style. Someone.

has uh aggressive style but from. distance. Someone needs to cut to to. distance and work more in in the. body. So, I don't know. It's. like it's so difficult to explain. explain it to you. I know what you're. saying though. I think one of your most. impressive performances uh was Josh EMTT. because in Josh Emtt, he's such a. powerful puncher. He's such a dangerous. puncher, but everything he throws you. has murder on it. Everything. But you.

just kind of slipped and moved with. everything and just systematically broke. him down. But you adjusted your style. for his danger. you adjusted your style. for him and just dominated the fight. I. think that was one of the most. impressive performances because it. showed how skillful you could be. Whereas like imagine if Michael Chandler. fought Josh EMTT, it would be [ __ ]. madness. Just madness. Two dudes just. trying to murder each other just [ __ ]. throwing haymakers, you know. But what.

you did was you broke down what he was. doing. You found your openings. You. started to get your timing. You started. to figure out, you put all his movements. into your computer and then you you. rolled with everything. Everything he. threw, you rolled with. When he had big. shots, you you moved with them. All his. big. shots were coming with the right hand. Like he's the type of guy that ends up. every combination with the right hand. So everything I had to do, it's all the.

time. I didn't have to exchange the. punches with him. I had to let him throw. me all the punches, roll his right hand, and then start with my combinations. And. this is what I really did. Like I I was. hurting him with with with the cuff. kicks. Then I was going for my. combinations and long combinations all. the time. In MMA, no one works the long. combination combinations. No one. They. always used to do one, two, one, two, three. But no one does one, two, three, three, four, five, six.

You know, and like the J Herbert fight. Exactly. Usually you're getting two. punches, everyone blocks two punches, but after the second one, they put the. hands down again and then is when I go. again like one, two, one, two, three, four, five. Boom. You are not waiting. for that. And if I change the levels and. I go in the head and the body, cuff. kicks, I go for the takedowns, I mix it. up, you you get crazy. It's interesting. that you didn't start boxing until you. were 17 because you're probably the best.

boxer in not just the featherweight. division, but you might be the best. boxer in the sport in terms of your. movement and then your one punch power. Your one punch power is pretty [ __ ]. crazy, which I think you either have or. you definitely can develop it and it. definitely is dependent upon technique, but either you have power or you don't. have power. Have you? So, did you always. notice that like from the very beginning. when you first started training? I. always had power. Is that crazy? Yeah,

it is. It's a God-given thing. God-given. thing. 100%. I always had that power. I. remember myself without much technique, but I was connecting the punches and. putting guys to sleep in the trainings. And I wasn't that skeptical. guy, but I had that power. But you were. smart enough. See, this is the. difference between like a Josh EMTT. approach and your approach. You were. smart enough to realize that, okay, I've. got this power, but now I need to. develop laser sharp techniques, of.

course. And I have to be able to find. the moment. I don't have to just throw. it and believe that I have the power. If. I connect it, I put you to sleep. No, it's not if I I'm going to connect you. that punch. I'm going to work for that. and I'm going to find that specific. moment to put your lights out. And I. know with everyone, even if in in 155, I. know that I'm going I'm going to be able. to find that find that moment where I'm. going to be able to connect that one. punch or two or three punches because.

sometimes it's not only one. I'm able to. combinate punches. You know, sometimes. you think that I'm going for your head. and I'm going my main. combination is to go to the body and I. go to to that with that liver shot and. that hurts also. Oh yeah. Yeah. And. little by maybe I I I I don't knock you. out but it takes a lot of cardio from. you. A lot of moment you start doubting. in yourself. You you getting like wow.

If he connects me with this punch in in. the chin, I'm done. And you're starting. to to to to doubt and then the doubts. kill you at the end. Yeah. It's like. little by little by little. Yeah. It's. um it's interesting how few guys really. work the body. Well, that's one thing. about Jack Dela Matalena is that he's a. very good body puncher, which is one of. the things that I think is very. interesting about this fight with Bal. Muhammad. He's a dangerous body puncher. He's very good at mixing up and down. No.

one uh usually used to attack the body. in the UFC. I don't know why. So, such a. beautiful technique to go to go and work. the body. Not only the head, everyone. goes for the head. Mhm. But there are. also weaknesses in the human being's. body, which is the the body, especially. with those little MMA gloves, you know, everything hard. Yeah. And you're you're. digging digging into that rib cage. But. it's just it's interesting how the sport. evolves. And I think when a guy like you.

comes around that does mix things up so. well and does have elite boxing, the. next generation will also copy you. that. will copy your style, you know, because. like think about the calf kick. There. was no calf kicks forever. Forever. I. don't know when they started with the. calf kick. Benson Henderson. Benson. Henderson. Benson Henderson. He was the. first guy I ever saw do him. He was. doing a lot. And I remember pointing it. out like he wasn't doing it as. effectively where he was like crippling. guys mo movement, but he was doing it a.

lot. And then I remember when Dustin. Porier fought Jim Miller, Jim Miller. almost took him out with calf kicks. Like Justin Porier's calf was destroyed. in that fight and then you know Dustin. Porier became a really good calf kicker. after that and then it became. ubiquitous. Everybody has to have a calf. kick but it comes from Muay Thai. It. comes from kickboxing. It comes from It. sort of does but in Muay Thai they don't. throw it very often. It's not a common. technique in kickboxing or Muay Thai. which is interesting. It's not as common.

as it is in MMA. Not so much. It's like. a jab but for the legs. job. It also cripples your movement. which is terrible because you can't. punch as hard because you don't have a. left leg anymore or right leg depending. on what's forward. And at the same time. it distracts you a lot, right? You know. what I mean? It hurts so much. Yeah. It. hurts. It distracts you. You have to you. you don't only have to think about the. hands, you have to think about also. about the kicks. Well, Izzy said that. when he lost to Alex Pereira the first. fight in in the UFC, he said he wasn't.

hurt that bad with the punches. He said. he couldn't move. He said his leg was so. destroyed. He said my leg my left leg. was so compromised I couldn't move. And. then in the second fight when Alex when. he knocked Alex out in the first round, he said my leg was [ __ ] already. He's. like he was getting me again. He's so. sneaky with that calf kick cuz he throws. it. He's got that weird style. He stands. he and he just kind of throws it out. there and you don't even see it coming. because he's not twisting his hips. He's. not and it's still he hits so hard that.

he doesn't have to turn his body weight. into it. and he's still [ __ ] you up. And at the same time, he had that muscle. memory. He was like, "If he starts with. the calf cake, I'm going to be fucked.". Yeah. He He said that to me. He's like. at the end of the round, I was like, "Oh, this [ __ ] did it again. I. can't believe he got me again." He's. like, "My leg was fucked." And then he. caught him with that right hand. What's. your alltime favorite fighter to watch. in the UFC? Boy, I don't think I have one. I don't. think I have one. It's just top five.

Well, you're in there. You're in the top. five. Really? Yeah. For real. Joe, for real. Yeah, definitely. I mean, how. could you not be? You knocked out two. Hall of Famers. Two of the all-time. greats. Vulcganowski and Max Holloway. are alltime greats. Two of the greatest. featherweight champions. So, if you're a. great featherweight champion, you're the. greatest in a division that probably. has, if not the most skill. There's like. there's an argument for the most skill.

I think it's 45 and 55. I think those. are the two divisions that have the most. skill. Yeah. So to be a a champion at 45. or 55, you're a champion in the most. skillful weight class. Like look at 45. So many [ __ ] killers at 45 now. Like. look at what Jean Silva just did to. Bryce Mitchell and he wasn't even. ranked. Yeah. You know, I mean this. guy's a [ __ ] man. You know, and. these guys are coming up and they're so. goddamn good. And Yay Rodriguez, you. know, you got these guys that are so. skillful. You got so much talent. I.

don't know what to tell you about Gyra. because I'm not a big fan of him. Yer. Yeah. No. How come? No. No. I don't. know. I I see I see him. He's the type. of guy that you don't even need to take. him down. He goes to the ground by. himself. I don't know. He's like very. spectacular at the way he fights and the. striking and the kicks he throws and all. that. But I don't know. I'm not a big fan of. him. I'm fan of Wulk and Max Holloway.

Well, actually they were the smartest. guy smartest guys that I ever faced. inside the octagon. I felt that they. were smart. They had that fight IQ. They. they know how to fight. Do you think Max. Holloway made a mistake in going up to. 55 and then back down to 45 again cuz he. got big when he fought? 100%. Yeah, I. think so too. 100%. Yeah, he he looked. too compromised. He looked he didn't. look healthy at 45. He get crazy for the. title shot. He was like, "Take the. gold." Yeah. Okay. Yeah.

Yeah. I mean, I understand it. I get it. I understand it. And the guy who was the. 145 lb champion, he knew it'd be hard to. make the weight, but he felt like he. could do it. But the thing is, he he. gained so much muscle to get to 55 to. fight Gachi. And he did it over a long. period of time where he really bulked up. well. But at the same time, I don't. know if he wouldn't try it, he would. stay for life like with the doubt that. if I Yeah. Yeah. So, another one is.

Pereira just because what he's done. inside the octagon is so crazy. Two. division world champion is a short. period of time and hadn't been fighting. MMA for but three or four years. Crazy. It was crazy. And it's also what he does. when he hits people. They like what he. did to um well I mean but basically what. he does to everybody when he connects I. mean his his power is just different. than what he did to Jamal Hill one left. hook boom and Jamal Hill who's good at. taking a shot all of a sudden he's gone.

you know he's just there's some Yuri. Prohaska that fight like the the second. fight it's crazy crazy he just like he. hits you one time it's like that was. with a with a headkick right uh headkick. in the second round but dropped him with. a left hook he was basically on after. the first round cuz it was at the. buzzer. He hit him with a left hook and. then he drops and then the bell rings. Um, and then he knocks him out with a. head kick in the second round, but he. he's just got this crazy style that's.

different than anybody else's style. And. he's such a specialist, such a. kickboxing specialist. Two division. world champion in glory and then goes on. and becomes a two division special. And. 37, you know, he's older. He's an older. guy, you know, to be fighting at such an. elite level, you know. Jon Jones, definitely. Jon Jones, one of the. greatest of all time. I mean, and John, what do you think about he's going to. come back? He's going to fight Tom. Yes. I think he'll fight Tom. I think he'll. hang out. You don't think so? No.

Really? I don't think so. How come? For. what? For glory. He already has the. glory. Yeah. One more glory before the. lights fade. Yeah. Yeah. I think John's. a conqueror. I think he is. I think he. sit back. He's the best of of all time. No one can say say the the opposite of. that. He he he's the best. Look, the guy. developed a spinning back kick at 36.

didn't have a spinning back kick his. whole career and all a sudden knocks out. Stipe with a spinning back kick for the. heavyweight title at 36 37 years old. That's crazy. And uh they showed me a. video the three days ago, four days ago, John before the fight with Steve, he was. practicing that kick at the day of uh of. the fight. Yes. And he said something. like, "This is the kick. I'm going to. knock him out with this kick." And the.

guy showed me the video. That's crazy. Well, John's fight IQ is insane. Insane. Insane. Insane. He's a smart he's a. smart guy. And did a lot of his career. partying, which is even crazier. Like. diminish his body. Did co like one of. the things he said to Daniel cocaine, Daniel Cormier, rather, which is one of. the uh coldest things anybody's ever. said. He said, "I beat you when I was on. Coke.". That's such a cold blooded thing to say.

It's so cold blooded. It's so cold. blooded. Crazy. He's so crazy. He was so. good. But he was so good. He was better. than everybody in his division, so he. didn't work hard. But then when he has. to work hard, he's [ __ ] terrifying. Like when he fought Alexander Gustoson, barely trained. They said he barely. trained. Barely was in the gym. They. they were really worried about him. They. were Greg Jackson said they were even. considering not letting him fight. They're like, "You shouldn't be. fighting. You're not training." Yeah. And then he he guts it out in the final. rounds, wins the decision, very close. fight. Then they have a rematch. And in.

the rematch, he's [ __ ] trained. Yeah. And then he just destroyed him in the. rematch. The first fight was very. competitive. Second one. Yeah. He. dominated. Not competitive at all. Yeah. When Jon is focused and Jon is in shape. and training, he's the greatest of all. time. I think he fights Aspenol because. I think it's going to be a lot of money. It's it's it's glory. And look, Aspenol. is amazing. He's unbelievable. He's fast. as [ __ ] for a heavyweight. He's big. He. can grapple. Black belt and jiu-jitsu.

He's got knockout power. But he's never. been in deep. water ever. I don't even know if he's. gone to a second round. I don't want to. say that he he doesn't have any chance. because everyone has it. One punch can. change everything in in in inside the. octagon. Of course, we everyone think. that Jon Jones is gonna gonna get it, but you can't count count him out at at. all the Tom Aspina, but I don't think. that he's gonna come back. Me. personally, do you think what is this.

here? One time Andrek took him to the. second round. That's it. Oh, really? Wow. I don't even remember that. And. then he TKO'ed him. That was four years. ago. That's kind of crazy if you look at. his career. It's all one and two. And. then in Bama, he had a two two round. fight. That's great, but it's also not. great because he doesn't have any deep. water experience. You know, if you're. fighting a guy like imagine if he fought. Stipe when Stipe was in his prime or he.

fought. Kane, you can't have one round fights. and expect to beat Kane Velasquez in a. five round war because the chances are. you're not going to catch him in the. first round and he's gonna his cardio is. just like an alien. Yeah, but at the. same time, you don't know how how he's. going to look at the fourth and fifth. round. He might be great. Might he might. be great. Sure, he might be great, but. he doesn't have that experience. So, in. his head, you've got to think there's. got to be some no matter how confident.

he is, there's got to be a couple. questions if you've never been like Jon. has no questions, right? There's no. questions in Jon Jones's head. He's gone. through five round wars like the. Gustoson fight. Five round war, no. training wins. He knows that he's got. what it takes. He's got heart. It's It's. undeniable. So, there's no questions. But with Aspenol, it's like, yeah, he. can get everybody out of there. He's got. the confidence that he gets everybody. out of there. That's for sure. Like, he's got the confidence if he connects. He's so fast and athletic for a.

heavyweight. And he's a legitimate. heavyweight. Like Tom Aspenol is not. making 205. He's big. He is big. He's a. big [ __ ] He's big. So for him, you. know, it's But Jon Jones is special. He's special. He is special and he has. that fight IQ. He's not that type of guy. that he walks in and you, for example, I. don't know, Francis Ninganu, you know. that he he got that one punch power. Mhm. But he doesn't have the same level. of fight IQ as Jon Jones, right? You.

know what I mean? with Jon is like if he. feels that you are dangerous in the. striking, he's going to grab your legs, try to mold you a little bit in the. ground. Then if you go in the second. round with him in the striking, you're. going to be tired. He also beats the. [ __ ] out of your knees. That front leg. side kick to the knee, the oblique kick. to the knee. He's a bad guy. He wants to. hurt you. He's trying to [ __ ] you up. He. He doesn't care to go with the elbow, with the knee. He wants to hurt you. John, when you know when he fought uh.

Thiago, Thiago Santos, at the end of. that fight, Thiago needed two knee. surgeries. Both of his knees were. destroyed and he was basically never the. same fighter since ever after that. fight. What happened with that guy? I. never saw him. Never ever. Well, he. fought again after that and he left the. UFC. But his his knees were never the. same. He had multiple knee surgeries. after that fight. Crazy. Both of his. knees got kicked out. I mean, he was. front leg sidekicking the [ __ ] out of. his knees. And what about you used to. train sometimes? MMA, jiu-jitsu. What?

Mostly jiu-jitsu. I did Muay Thai. Yeah, but I started in taekwond do and then I. started I would love to share some. training with you. I would love to share. some training with you, too. I want to. see what you do, man. I watched you uh. grapple with Morab. I was super. impressed. Yeah. I watched a video you. grapple. I'm like, anybody that could do. that to Morab. Like, holy [ __ ] Cuz. people think about you. They're scared. of your striking. But one of the things, well, like you opened up a lot of. people's eyes in the Ryan Hall fight. because Ryan Hall was this weird puzzle.

He was like this elite Brazilian. jiu-jitsu black belt who do a lot of. strange things like he would like turn. his back to people and do weird things. He'll hook BJ Penn like that in the. first round like with that I role. Yeah. But when you dominated him like that, I. was like Jesus Christ. And then you put. his lights out, I was like wow. Because. people think when people see a guy who. can strike like you do, they kind of. forget about the ground game. You know, they forget that your ground game is. very elite, too, you know, which is.

really interesting because you you you. tend to put people in categories of. danger, but with you it's all danger. Like you you're you have a a very. wellbalanced game, you know, which is. unusual. Like Pereira, for instance, doesn't have a balanced game. you know, his game is he's going to connect and. you're going to wake up, you know, that's that's all it is. His his game is. kickboxing, but your game is like it's. everything. It's all over the place, you. know, like the Bryce Mitchell fight. It's it's everywhere. It's stand up. It's the ground. It's comprehensive.

It's like George St. Pierre when he was. in his prime. It was coming from all. different angles. You never knew if he. was going to take you down. You didn't. know if he was going to strike with you. It was all your mind was overwhelmed. with possibilities, which is, in my. opinion, what I like to watch. That's. what I like the most. A guy who can do. everything. I love specialists. I love. like Damen Maya because when Damen Mia. would get you, who'd he clinch you? Like, oh, you're [ __ ] Back, you're. [ __ ] To this day, the one fight that. drives me the most crazy where a referee. [ __ ] it up was Kamaro Usman and Damen.

Mia. Cuz in the first round, Damen Mia. had Camaro Usman's back standing up, had. one leg laced, had his back, but it was. taking too long and the referee. separated them. And I'm like, you. [ __ ] He's so close. He's so. close. This is it. Look at this [ __ ]. Like Camaro Usman's in deep [ __ ] here. He's in deep [ __ ] here. And the referee. [ __ ] separated. him. This is crazy. He's doing this.

This referee This drives me nuts. Go. back it up a little bit. Back it up a. little bit because it's before this. It's before this. So like when once he. finally secures it go a little bit. before. that. A little bit before a little bit. before little bit before. Maybe do it do it right from the moment. where they they clinch up. Okay. Right. here. So as soon as he clinches up and. he ties that leg as soon as he gets his.

hands together. Camaro is in deep [ __ ]. right here. Deep [ __ ] Camaro has one. loss on his record and that's by rear. naked choke. And now he's grappling with. one of the best to ever do it. To this. day, this [ __ ] me up. This is one of. the reasons why I hate when they. separate fighters. I hate when they. stand people up and I hate when they. separate fighters. This is a huge. mistake here by this referee because. you've got one of the greatest ground. specialists of all time. Do do you think. that he was the most dangerous guy in in.

the ground? Yes. In in his in his prime. In his prime, he he dominated people. Oh. Oh god. This is so close, man. Camaro's in real trouble here. The way. his arm is compromised behind his back. He's [ __ ] here. You got to get out of. this. You can't get separated just cuz. the crowd's booing. The referee's like. too involved. Get the [ __ ] out of there. Get out of there and let him work. because if he gets to the ground. tomorrow might be [ __ ] here. And.

there's two minutes to work. There's. plenty of time to this day. That drives. me nuts. He's doing something very. interesting there with the with the. butterfly. Yes. With that left. butterfly. Yeah. He's constantly keeping. you off base. And you know that if you. make any mistakes here, that right hook. is coming over. The arm's coming over. the top. As soon as he lets go Yes. So, as soon as he lets go of that arm, that. arm that he's got trapped, that arm that. he's got trapped with his over with uh. his left arm, as soon as Kamaru is if he. gets that arm over the top of the.

shoulder, Camaro's [ __ ] man. This is. a terrible spot to be. And for the. referee to separate them and not let him. work. I was talking to Matt Sarah about. it the other day and he was like, "Yes, he [ __ ] them." Yeah, he [ __ ] him. They did. They [ __ ] him. Then Camaro. wins this fight and then, you know, I. watched this fight. The world changes. It changes because this could have been. a loss and then Camaro could have been. back to the drawing board. It's a bad. situation to be in with a ground. See, look. Now he has this advantage of being. able to stand up again. like why why.

does he have this advantage? Why why you. should be back where you were? There's. no reason to separate those guys. Referee mistakes are crazy. You know, like there's there's moments in fights. where referees make mistakes where a. fighter's whole career just changes, just flashes before their eyes. The. other day also something happened in the. in in the paper in in the car with with. Dan Eager. Yes. Yes. I don't know why he.

stopped the fight and yes that that was. a bad decision too. That was bad as. well. Same thing. Sean Woodson. Yeah, I. think he would win the fight anyways, but he didn't had to stop the fight. It. was a bad stoppage. It was a bad. stoppage. Yeah. Yeah, there's bad. stoppages, Matt. I mean, it happens. It. happened to Jared Canineer. Jared. Cananeer had a bad stoppage. Uh I guess. uh who was that against? Was it Emov? The worst. tappage, the Robbie Lawler against Ben.

Ascarin. Oh yeah, that was the worst. That was the worst one. That was the. worst one. They thought he was out and. he wasn't out. I was so excited for that. fight. Robbie was beating the [ __ ] out. of him too before that headlock. Yeah, that was terrible. That was a bad. stoppage. Yeah, there's been some bad. stuff. But you know, look, the referees. have the second hardest job in the. sport. The first hardest job in the. sport. Yeah, here it is. This is Jared. Cananeer and Amov. So he gets Look at. that right there. That's crazy. That's a. crazy stoppage. He stopped the fight.

Why? Yes. No. Yeah. Look at this. He got. hurt. He got hurt, but he's covering up. And by the way, Jared Caner can [ __ ]. take it, man. He comes back. Jared Caner. came back against Rodriguez in his last. fight. He was hurt way worse than this. And he came back to score a knockout. But that was a crazy stoppage. It just, you know, like I said, referees have the. second hardest job. Fighters have the. first hardest job. Second hardest job is. being a referee. Because those moments. when you make a decision like ah, you.

can't take it back. The fight's over. That's true. It's terrible. It's hard to. be a referee. Yeah, it is. And then. there's the judging. Some judges. The. judging. Yeah. How do they also. Something that drives me crazy. It's. like, how do they keep having the same bad. judges come back again? That's what's. crazy because the UFC has no control of. the judges. The judges are all. established by the athletic commissions. Yeah. So sometimes you get great judging.

and it's like, "Oh, the judges are good. tonight. These are good decisions." And. sometimes you get, "What the [ __ ] is. going on?" Yeah. Sometimes judges are. horrible. There's horrible. Doesn't make. any sense. You never know if they. give you more points for wrestling, for. striking, for defending, right? It's. crazy. Well, some judges just aren't. qualified, right? They don't have a. martial arts experience. They don't they. don't have a background, you know? They. just learned how to judge that. You. can't I don't think you can do that. It's like I don't speak Spanish, but if.

you taught me some Spanish and then I. was judging Spanish, would I with you. know what I'm saying? Like crazy. I'm. not qualified, right? You are not, right? So, if you have a guy who doesn't. really understand who's got the dominant. position, like maybe you see a [ __ ]. guillotine that has no chance, it's not. like they never fought. It's they not. even never trained. Right. Exactly. Most. of them. I remember early on in the UFC, one of the judges. turned to one of the uh people next to.

this person. It was a woman. She turns. to this person. He goes, "What is he. doing?" No way. Yeah. Yeah. What is he. doing? Someone was trying to get a. kamura and she's like, "What is he. doing?" She didn't know what a kamura. was. So, how did they get there? They. were boxing judges. So, the boxing. judges, they started using them for MMA. fights with no martial arts experience. at all. Never never stepped on the mat, never put in a mouthpiece, never got. punched in the face.

That's crazy. That's crazy. They don't. know how it works. And it's they're. judging at a professional world. championship level at the highest level. It's crazy. It's crazy. I think they. should have more judges. Let Let me ask. you something. What do you think was the. the decay of success of the UFC? Like it. was Dana White, it was the matchmakers, it was the fighters, it was the. promotion. What it was? I think the big. thing was the Ultimate Fighter. I think. everybody kind of agrees with that. The.

Ultimate Fighter reality show. What what. made the UFC huge was that first season. of the reality show because this was. 2005. So reality shows were really. popular back then. this is, you know, Survivor and Fear Factor and there's all. these reality shows and Big Brother and. so they had this reality show that. people are watching with fighters and. then they have the finale and in the. finale Forest Griffin fights Stephan. Bonner and it's such a crazy fight that. people are just to telling their friends. the the the ratings were going up as the.

fight went on and you know the Fertittas. the people that owned the UFC before. this uh current company they were in the. hole $40. million and they just kept losing money. and they said, "Listen, this is the last. they were going to sell the UFC at one. point in time." And then they got to. this point where they're like, "Look, let's just try this one more thing. Let's just try this one more thing." And. they they did this this reality show and. the reality show worked. And then 2005. and then they had Chuck Liddell. And.

Chuck Liddell was the perfect poster boy. for this new cage fighting thing. This. [ __ ] maniac with a mohawk and a. tattoo on his head and he's just. crushing everybody, you know? He was a. perfect guy because the fights were so. exciting and he had this insane style. This insane almost like Michael Chandler. style but better. Entertaining style. Very very entertaining. Just warrior. He. was a good boxer. Good striker. Fast. hands. Yeah. Fast hands. Vicious. knockout power. And he was a wrestler, but he didn't wrestle anybody. He was a.

heavyweight. Light heavyweight. Yeah. Big guy. Yeah. He was light heavyweight. Big guy. KO's people with one punch and. you know it was perfect for the sport. because like he was so exciting and he. looked the part. He was like a maniac. and after we'd win he'd go and run. around the cage. It was so exciting. So. exciting. He was the poster boy. He was. the guy. He was the guy that put the. sport on the map because people would. watch him and they go gez. Yeah. That. time timeline of MMA was so fun with. Rampage Jackson also. Oh yeah. And then.

when Rampage KO'ed him, you know, he. became the man and you know, and then. Jon Jones comes along and you know, it's. like the sport. That's what's crazy. about John, right? Jon's been dominant. now for like what 15 16 years. Yeah. That's nuts, man. That's why I I say. he's the best. He's the goat. He's the. goat. He's the goat. I don't know how. how they don't put him as the number one. poundfor-pound. He's the number one. pound for pound. You know, it's just. because he doesn't fight as often as. Islam. You know, Islam has defended his.

title more recently, more often against. top flight competition, whereas John is, you know, John takes a year off, does a. year off here, a year off there. But. when you look at the overall record, the. overall career, he's the greatest of all. time. But when I when I talk about like. just technique, you got to listen, you. got to think about Mighty Mouse, too, man. Mighty Mouse in his prime was a bad. [ __ ] man. He would do [ __ ] to. guys like s when he suplexed Ray Borg. and caught him with an armbar in the. middle of the air and finished him. You.

don't think so? I see your face. I see. your face. No, no, no. It's not like But. I don't. know. I never was a big fan of him. No. No. Never. I think when you call yourself a Mickey. Mouse, mighty Mighty Mouse Mighty. Mouse. So, I always thought that he was. a Mickey Mouse. I'm like, "Bro, how the. [ __ ] you calling yourself a Mickey. Mouse?" No, he was a good fighter. He.

was a good fighter. He was a very. technical fighter. He dominated the. whole division. How many times he. defended his belt? Like, many times. 14. times. Many times. He [ __ ] a lot of. people up. But then there's an issue. where the quality of the competition in. the 125 pound division back then was not. at the level that it is now. Like. Pantosia, he's a bad [ __ ] I. would have loved to see Aleandre. Pantosia versus Mighty Mouse in their. prime. Pantosia is a [ __ ] animal, man. That guy's a [ __ ] animal.

There's a guy coming up in. 125. He fought in the last pay-per-view. in London. His last name is Kavana in. 125. He's going to be a problem in that. division. He's very skillful fighter. Well, I think like all weight classes, um, now you have the best fighters of. all time because we see guys from the. Dana White Contender Series now that are. coming along that that enter into the. UFC for their first fight. And you see.

these guys like, Jesus Christ, this guy. looks like he has 15 pro fights in the. UFC. They look elite. You know, that. that's a cool program. Also, a Dana. White Contender Series. That's something. cool because they have some story behind. them before they get to the UFC. Mhm. And that's cool. And actually they make. a good matchmaker matchmaking also to. for that fight. I I like to see. sometimes Dana White contenders series. within some fight nights. Yeah. You get. to see guy Well, that's where we found.

Sugar Shawn Omali. you get to see guys. uh I prefer that to the Ultimate Fighter. because I don't want to watch all the in. the house [ __ ] and all the games. that they play. I don't care about all. that. I don't care. I just want to see. him fight. Not anymore. But before it. was very entertaining in the beginning. In the early days, but the I mean now. they're on like season 2000. Like who. [ __ ] there's been so many seasons. like I can't even keep track. I forget. who won you know there's so many. seasons. But the my point is that the. caliber of new guys when they're just.

entering the like Mauricio Rufi, perfect. example. Yeah. You see this guy first. fight in the UFC lightweight, right? Yeah. He's [ __ ]. huge. You see this guy first fight in. the UFC, you're like, whoa, this guy is. elite already. You know, same thing with. Jean Silva. Elite already. Like these. guys, they're entering into the sport at. a very Carlos Pates, same thing. like. right away like you're seeing like a. very high level right away and uh I just.

think that because there's so many guys. like you to watch there's so many guys. like you know Hamzad and all these. people you get to see elite. talent. So these young fighters that are. coming up they have a higher level they. yeah a higher level to aspire to. That's. true. Now like the the sport is growing. that the talents are better than before. Yeah. Because the the sport has. developed so much that right now you. have so much experience. You can learn.

so much about the game. Like even in. YouTube, you go on YouTube, you can. learn everything by yourself. I think in. the future guys like you will be. everywhere. There will be only guys like. you at world championship level. I don't. think there'll be any specialists. anymore. I think there'll be guys who. are elite everywhere. everywhere. This. is what what I was saying like all the. time. Now it's time for the new. generation. What's the new generation? That if you want to want to be the best, you have to be the best in everywhere.

the the fight the fight takes the place. in the ground and the wrestling and the. striking. You have to be good everywhere. because that's how how the sport is de. developing right now. Because before. before you were good only uh in. wrestling you would take people down and. no problem you you you could become a. world champion but right now so tough so. tough the competition all the time is. higher and higher and higher and there's.

more knowledge in the in the sport. Yeah, there really is. It's um it's very. inspiring and it's very interesting. because there's no other sport where you. could go back and look at it from. 1993 to 2025 and it's almost like a. completely different sport. The the. athletes are so much better than they. were. I mean, even from like 2000, go. back to 2000 and watch the sport and. then watch it today. At least in the. UFC, it changed a lot. A lot everything. Even.

the production. Oh, yeah. Everything. everything changed everything. I mean. it's uh it's so it's so interesting. because it's the one sport also that. translates it translates to all. languages like everybody understands it. but UK is so special that because you. saw the sport growing since since. nothing and you saw so many great fights. in front of you. Yeah I'm very lucky. man. Yeah that's I feel very fortunate. What about what about you? Like do you.

have a plan where you want to retire or. you are just enjoying and you love what. you're doing? Because I I I think that. it's a I don't know. You are enjoying a. lot. Yeah. I just enjoy it. I don't. think about retiring. No. No. If Dana. White quits, I might quit. But that's. it. Yeah. Yeah. It's actually in my. contract. No. Yeah. If he leaves, I. leave. Yeah. So, in my contract, if he. leaves, I don't have to stay. Why that? Something personal. I wouldn't. be doing it if it wasn't for him. Yeah.

Yeah. He's my friend. He talked me into. doing it. I mean, I started working for. the UFC before him. I started working. for the UFC in 1997. Uh when it was. nothing that nobody was watching. It was. we did it at a a small like a high. school auditorium in Dothan, Alabama. You had to take a propeller plane to get. there. Like [ __ ] scary ass planes. And u. that was the first time Vtor fought. Okay. I was actually training at the. same gym as Vtor when Vtor made his. debut. Vtor was 19 years old and uh we.

were at Carlson Gracie. Start very. young. Yeah. Yeah. We were at Carlson. Gracy's gym in Hollywood. Hollywood, California. That's where I was training. I just dumb luck. I was a white belt. I. just started. So you how old you were. when you started like training or you. had some relationship with the sport? Uh. well jiu-jitsu. Well martial arts I. started when I was 15. Well, I started. when I was 14, but really seriously when. I was 15, and then I competed in. Taekwondo from 15 to 21, and then I. kickboxed until I was 22. And then I was. doing comedy at the same time. And then.

I realized I I was half in, half. Something crazy about you is when I hear. you explaining some positions, I'm like, this guy has to know how to fight, how. to do it because the way he is explain. it, I couldn't be able to to explain it. And I'm a world champion. I know the. game, but you explain it like way better. than anyone else. I I think that you put. 10 world champions together, you still. explain it much better than all of us. Oh, thank you. Thank you very much.

Well, I learned how to explain it. because I learned how to teach people. that didn't know what was happening once. it went to the ground. Right. Cuz in the. beginning, nobody understood the ground. game. Exactly. You know, and I'm a black. belt in jiu-jitsu, so when it goes to. the ground, I I can explain what's. happening. I'm very specific. Well, you have to be specific cuz some. people don't know. Like sometimes I'll. be watching with my wife at home. Like. we watching fights that I'm not calling. and she's like, "What's going on?" And. I'd be like, "His right arm is in. trouble right now." Like, see what see.

where his elbow is now? If he can get. his elbow past this point, he's [ __ ]. I'm like, "Okay, now he's fucked." And. then I would I would I would explain it. and I I would say, "Now what he's going. to do, he's going to take his right leg. He's going to wrap it over the top. Oh, he's got it. Oh, he's got it." Okay. He's going to cinch the left leg over. the top. That's it. That's it. He's. [ __ ] You're the best. Yeah. That's. it's just I it's you can't passion. Yeah. Either you love it or you don't. love it. And if you don't love it, you. can't pretend it won't work. No one's. going to believe you. Like if you're. just a regular sports guy, say like you.

call hockey and they hire you. You're. going to learn about MMA and you're. going to call MMA. Come on. Come on. Yeah. There's no. You're not going to be able to do it. right. Of course, because you got to do. it like you like if I was calling. hockey, I'm like, "Yay, this [ __ ]. puck went in the net. Woo. I don't give. a [ __ ] I don't give a [ __ ] if the puck. goes in the net. It doesn't mean. anything to me. But when someone gets. your [ __ ] neck [ __ ] [ __ ] and you. see the guys going to tap he's tapping. That that to me is life. That's. everything. That is like it's not just. winning. You're not just winning. You're.

you killed that guy. We can see that. I. promise you. We can see your passion. every time. Like even right now I'm. here. I feel your passion. It's not like. I see it. I feel your your passion like. you passionate about what you're doing. And that's something that I I admire. people like you. Well, I wouldn't do it. if I didn't feel that way. I don't have. to do it. I don't do it for money. I. just do it I mean, this is the only. person I work for is the UFC. Everything. else I do for myself. Everything I work. for myself. Yeah. I'm self-employed. except for the UFC. But I've been.

working for them for 20. [ __ ] three years. Yeah. 23 years. 23. years. Yeah. And then before that, I did. it two years before that. So, it's 25. years total. And And when was the the. moment Maybe I'm going like too deep, but I I wanted to ask you this like when. was the moment when you feel like I'm. succeed in life? I feel that I'm I'm. having success. And what's for you. actually success? Like how do you. describe it? Um well, I guess the moment.

was when I didn't worry about success. anymore. I don't think about success. I. think about what do I enjoy doing and am. I doing it the best that I can do it? That's what I think about. I don't. think, oh, I'm going to make more money. Oh, I'm gonna do this and now I want to. do I want this goal and that goal. I'm. a process oriented person. I think about. the process of what I'm doing and then. the results come. So, I think like what. am I doing? Am I doing it the best that. I can do it? And if I'm not, I better I.

better either quit if I don't want to do. it anymore. If I like that's why I. stopped fighting. I was there was no. money in fighting when I was fighting. There was no money. There was no UFC. And I was just getting brain damage for. no reason. And it was really I was I was. sparring and having [ __ ] headaches. every night. I was like, "What am I. doing with my life?" And then I would. also meet guys in the gym that were. punch drunk. And they those guys scared. the [ __ ] out of me cuz back then. everybody was stupid, too. And like in, you know, this is 1989. Everybody was. stupid. They just beat the [ __ ] out of. each other. They didn't There was no.

like sparring, you know, like technical. sparring. It was just wars. It was just. fights. Always fights. And there was no. future. And I It's still like that in in. some gyms. Yeah. A lot of gyms. A lot of. gyms. You know, some gyms are. intelligent, but there's a lot of gyms. that are stupid. I I I don't used to. spar at all. Really? Yeah. I don't spar. Only in training camps. But I see you. spar in training camps. So, it's only in. training camps. Only in training camps. So, when you're not in camp, what do you.

do? I do like as I told you, spankings. maybe and boxing. But before I used to. go like more crazy than now before. because before I had like more ego. I. had I I wanted to pro myself like I can. knock you out. I can submit you. I can. do this and I but once like you you you. winning. fights, you're growing as a person, you're like I don't need to prove. anything here in in in the gym. I know. what I'm able to do and the.

competition is the day when I have to. fight the fight. That's the day when I'm. when I'm get paid and and that's it. I'm. not gonna going to dam damage anyone no. more because. sometimes you knock people out and then. you go back home and you feel bad. You. you're like I could not doing it right. And he's suffering right now. I sent so. much people to the hospital. so much. people to the hospital like I'm sure. I've seen a few broken eyes.

opened so much damage that right now I'm. like no no no sometimes people comes to. me like let's spar I'm like. I recommend you to know. I recommend you to not. yeah that's good advice yeah it's. interesting right it's like the your ego. can help you because your ego is what. makes You want to be great, but at a. certain point in time, you got to put a. leash on it. Yeah. You got to say, "Not.

not right now, [ __ ] When I let. you go, when I say sickum, then I'm. going to let you off that leash, but not. right now." And like that's Marcelo. Garcia always used to say that about. jiu-jitsu that you have to open up your. game in the gym and don't be afraid. about being tapped. He goes, you got to. be open. You got to take chances in the. gym and learn and put yourself in bad. positions on purpose and and you might. lose training sessions, but that's not. what's important. What's important is. growing. I see a lot of guys struggling. with that. Like they don't want to lose.

and train and I'm like, well, a lot of. guys never develop a guard because they. never want to be on their back. There's. a lot of guys like that. They have no. [ __ ] guard. Like, which is crazy. It's crazy. There's black belts out. there that you get them on their back, they look like a turtle because they. don't want to lose. Exactly. They don't. They don't know how to have to lose. Like, if you top out, no problem. You. get better. Like, yes. H how I don't put. myself in this position. But that's the. fascinating dance of the mind that.

allows someone to become a champion. versus someone to become just a good. fighter. Like whether you can figure. that out like when to put your ego on a. leash and when to be able to look at. yourself objectively like what you're. doing with separating all of your. disciplines. I think is very important. I think that's a a very interesting way. that you put it because I think it's a. very intelligent way to approach it. Like get very good at your boxing, get. very good at your Muay Thai, get very. good at your jiu-jitsu, but do it. different. Do it separately. I like.

every week, every Sunday, I sit down and. I do my schedule by myself. Like I'm I'm. on Monday, I'm going to do boxing at the. from this hour to this, then I'm going. to do afternoon. And how do you decide. what you're going to do? depends of how. I feel what I want to what I want to do. What do you want to work on what I and. and what I want to work on and where I. feel like I have to develop something. What I want to do. what's what do I feel in reality? It's.

not like all the time um I'm going to do. this because I have to do it. No, I. don't have to do anything. I choose to. do it because I enjoy it. Every time I. go to training, I enjoy it. I don't do. it because I feel forced. Sometimes in. training camp, yes, I feel forced. because I feel tired. I don't have food. in my body. I don't have any energy and. I have to do it because I'm forced. But. outside the training camp, I enjoy it. Even if I retire tomorrow, I would keep. training like that because that's. something that I enjoy. And you said.

something very interesting before that. like right now. I'm in in in the moment of my life where. everything I do, I do it because I enjoy. it. I don't do anything be to make. anyone's h anyone happy. Uh I don't live. a life dreaming to have another one. I. just enjoy the moment I'm living right. now. That's so important. That is so. important. It's so important to be. satisfied with your life. So important.

to just. just live in the moment. It's so hard. for people to do. It's so hard for. people to do especially if you [ __ ]. off too many times. you just like made. too many mistakes and slacked off and. lazy and this is the best moment we have. right now. Right now. This is it. The. best moment. This is who we are. Yeah, it is. It is. No one knows what's going. to happen tomorrow. So, and you know. what's really important? hearing a guy. like you say this, hearing a guy like. you say this to to young people out.

there that are listening, they're just. not sure like how to approach life. because the way you think about life and. the way you decide to approach life can. change your the whole direction of your. future. 100% 100%. And so a young guy is. probably listening guaranteed there are. people not just one many young people. are listening to you talk right now. I'm. sure there many people come to you like. Joe tell me the secret. Yeah, there are.

no secret. There's no bottom for the. elevator. Exactly. Everything in life. you get step by step. The slowest the. fastest way to get where you want to be. I was talking to David Gogggins about. that. You know who David Gogggins is? Yeah, of course. [ __ ] maniac. David. Gogggins said there's no finish line. He's like it never ends. Like it never. ends. Never ends. You never make it. You. ever feel like you make it? I'm like you. never make it. There's no making it. It's [ __ ] One day you you don't. think about it anymore and you just. every day you're just trying to get.

better. Of course. And if you don't feel. like that, it's not fun. If you're not. really trying to do something difficult. and aspire to greatness and just trying. to do your best all the time, you don't. have satisfaction in your life 100%. Everything. Some people thinks that like. you accomplish something and that's. going to make you happy. That's a. [ __ ] Well, you know, I think also. there's the poison of social media. because social media poisons people to. think that one day I'm going to make it.

I'm going to be like Conor McGregor. driving my yacht around. Like those. videos are so bad for you. Those videos. of people like, "Look at me. Look at my. watch. Look at my diamonds. Look at. this. Look at my house. Look at this. Look at these girls. Don't you wish you. were me?" Everyone is showing you the. best part of their life. No one is going. to show you how they are struggling, the. problems they are facing in the in the. daily basis. I mean like no one is going. to show you that. No one's going to show. you, look, I have a pimple here in my.

face. No, I'm going to use a filter to. Yeah. hide that. Yeah. It's It's not. good. It's not good for young people, that's for sure. Because they aspire to. all the wrong things. You ask young. people today what do they want? Most of. them just want to be famous. They want to be famous and they think. that money makes them rich and you. skills make you rich, not the money. If. you don't have the skills and you don't. have the mindset, you're going to keep. poor all the time. Not only that, you're. not going to have the satisfaction of. knowing you got really good at.

something. There's something about. getting really good at something that. gives you a deep satisfaction that's not. available anywhere else. If you just win. the lottery, those are the most. depressed people in the world. They all. go broke. They win the lottery and then. everybody wants money from them and then. they feel empty and hollow and they. don't know what to do with themselves. and now they don't have any goals. because they have a hundred million. dollars in the bank. They don't know. what the [ __ ] to do. Yeah. But in. reality they don't have any ability. They don't have nothing to enjoy with. you. I say that success comes from not.

worrying about money. Success doesn't. come from making a lot of money. Success. comes from now I don't have to think. about that. Money is not a thing. Now I. think about what am I doing? What am I. doing? I want to be the best parent I. can be. I want to be the best friend. that I can be. I want to be everything I. do. I want to do it to the best of my. abilities. Yeah. Becoming the best. person you could be. Yeah. The best. person you can be. When I was a kid, my. martial arts instructor told me this. that I'll never forget and I say it all. the time. Martial arts are a vehicle for.

developing your human potential. Through. that struggle, through that difficult. thing, you will learn how to be better. at everything. 100%. 100%. 100% that's that's what I. think life is about and that's why. martial arts are so exciting to me. You. know, people think, "Oh, you like. violence. You like this." Like, that's. not it. Like, that's why I don't like. slap fighting. I think it's stupid. You. stand in front of each other, smack each. other in the head. I want to see a. guy enter into a cage fully prepared. with skills against another guy fully.

prepared with skills. I always describe. martial arts, mixed martial arts in. particular, as highlevel problemolving. with dire physical consequences. That's. what it is. It's problem solving with. dire physical consequences. That's so. cool. Yeah, that's what it is. People. most of time, they didn't understand. what's behind a fighting game. It's not. like only violence. You have to prepare. yourself. You have to be smart. You have. to be you have to work smart smarter.

than the the other guy you you are going. to face. There's so much factors that. it's going to play out that that day. It's so much sacrifices that someone has. to make before getting in in inside that. octagon. It's not only. fighting. It's more than that. I don't. know. I don't it's. I love that. I don't know. Most of the. people before they used to see fighting.

as something very violent in in Spain. They hate it. Right now it's becoming. bigger and bigger and bigger and they're. starting to love that. And I and I saw. that since the day I started because I. used to say to the people like 10 years. ago in Spain, what you doing? I'm. fighting. Ah, don't do. that. Start learning something. Start. studying. I'm like, I'm. starting. Everyone choose a a career in. his life. Someone wants to be a doctor,

someone wants to be a constructor, someone wants to be this or that. I want. to be a fighter. Yeah. And I have to. learn to be a fighter also. But by your. example, by being a true champion and by. living the way you live and by. performing the way you perform, you will. change people's opinions and they will. see it and they will say, "Oh, this is. different. This is not what I thought it. was. This is something special. I hope. so. For sure, brother. For sure. It's in.

the cards. Well, listen, my friend. Thank you very much for being here. I. appreciate you very much. I'm a big fan. and I can't wait to see you inside the. Octagon again. And uh all the best, Joe. Thank you very much, bro. Has been a big. pleasure for me to be with you. Thanks. very much. All right. Bye, everybody. Bye. [Music].