Joe Rogan Experience #952 - Thaddeus Russell

I'm not interested in five four three. two one. we're live daddy us Ross are you going. no headphones you're radical you well. you knew that dude I'll take the. headphones off with you I don't give a. [ __ ] let's go bring it it's on feel. better I feel liberated know what the. real sound do you look slim and healthy. what you've been doing thank you I just. I got back in the gym and I'm doing. boxing and kickboxing still and active.

yeah well you know I'm you know I'm in. Oregon a lot so the meth is awesome up. there good speed rate for weight control. I would think that Oregon would be more. of like a calm down type of state as far. as drugs I was just there for Fort I. know yeah he emailed you yeah I loved it. up there man. I would they're [ __ ] the winter so. goddamn depressing but I would still do. it this winter has been just ridiculous. it's raining or nine months straight. there was like 500 inches in my County.

Jesus this winter but but you beautiful. green oh god it's so lush when I just. when you get out of the PDX Airport it. just you smell pine trees you walk at. the airport yeah I mean it's amazing and. after being in LA which is just. basically like this giant desiccated. turd I mean it's like it's so nice yeah. that would be like the best place to. live like if you had a place there and a. place here you go back and forth you. deal with total dry and total what I'm. doing no kind of balance itself dude you. nailed it mr. Russell thank you. I'm commuting every week and people say.

you don't yeah don't you get sick of. this I actually love it so far so far. yeah so I'm gonna sign here my son is. here he goes to school here in fact he. goes to the school right near where. we're sitting and so I have an apartment. here and then a house in Salem Oregon. and I love it going back and forth I'm. not I'm kind of like a shark I can't I. need to keep moving. I don't like I get I feel claustrophobic. and like the world is passing me by if. I'm sitting in one place too long. have you always been like that I'm. digging it yeah always I always need to. be doing something and moving I get I am. literally claustrophobic yeah yeah and.

have you ever gotten isolation - oh my. god yeah when you talk about that I'm. freaked out that's my worst nightmare. whoa like and I'm also a little bit. afraid of the dark. I knew you were gonna laugh at that you. can call me a girl again no beat a girl. by the way. yeah well we'll get into that joke we'll. get into that no I mean like pitch black. that that freaks me out really you can't. see anything I can't stand that I don't.

mind yet very dark room if you can as. long as I can see something but if it's. pitch black I freaked the [ __ ] you. know it freaks me out and so vision. goggles well that's what I want right. then I'm cool if I seem so weird and put. them on you feel like you're in a horror. movie or you're in one of those scenes a. most stupid Ghostbuster shows where. they're down in the basement they always. have night vision on yeah have you tried. them on. yes oh yeah I have some oh you of course. I do of course you do. for like nighttime boar hunting for then.

its scopes they have night-vision scopes. err where you see the infrared version. of the pigs moving around it's very. weird to look through them but people. often mistake other things for pigs like. deer and I haven't tried them on but I. like that idea but you know like so. spelunking is definitely out for me you. know. colostrum the darkest belong concaving. oh yeah there's like the idea of being. like in a tight one of those tight. little caves you have to like squeeze. your body through in the pitch dark and. your headlamp goes out I was just. listening to a question I asked about.

this family that owns a ranch in Texas. and they have these small caves that. these kids would explore in and then. they allowed some cavers some local you. know cave explorers to go and check it. out and they'd crawl through this really. small like three foot diameter hole like. literally crawl through it and found two. football-field-sized caves inside and. then found out that there's some. literally miles of cave systems in there.

oh yeah no it's incredible I wish I. weren't terrified of it because I love. all that other stuff and the outdoors. you know a backpacking and camping and. hiking I do all that I love it but going. underground is the worst do you only. backpack in camp when it's a full moon. no I'm cool with the Stars that's good. enough good enough yeah yeah headlamps. like I said I'm only pitch black when. you can't see your hand in front of your. face that freaks me out and I don't. understand why people other people don't. freak out about that like I'll wake up.

in a hotel room and I forgot to there's. or there's no light at all on for. whatever reason I'll freak out so I am. see look look what I'm already admitting. to millions of people I just got here. man I'm already like a girl and you keep. saying girls if it's like a week thing. it's the first time I was here you. called me a girl it stuck with me I'm. sorry it's Connor you remember no you. just said you sounded like a girl just. then really what did I say about I can. know what it's about I can't remember. something probably something really. pretty pretty girlish pretty so yeah in.

Portland the Portland area what are you. doing up there so teaching right my. girlfriend who I live with is a vice. president at Willamette University and I. teach part-time just for the hell of it. at Willamette but mostly I'm developing. all these other things and it mostly. just enjoying Oregon so cuz man you can. you can afford a hell of a house in. Salem Oregon for what you were paying. and LA let me tell ya so we're just. living a lot better first time in my. life have been in a house that I enjoyed. being in and all that's nice yeah and so.

it's great and it's given me a base to. do these projects my new podcast and. renegade University and write my book. it's great I have my own studio in the. house and I have my own office you know. so it's like kind of the command center. up there yeah it's nice yeah so it's. been it's been pretty awesome lately um. I think it's fascinating how some places. like some cities have like a mindset. there's like a feel that you get from. the city and I like the feel that you. get from Portland yeah I mean it's like. a it's a we're City you know and it's.

not a dumb city because it's small snow. bear aware I mean like we're there woke. then we woke as [ __ ] yeah but it's like. it's like a white folk white whoa. whatever my cloak is they're a little. pretentious I think somewhere along the. line Portland became like a place that. pretentious people gravitated to because. they'd wanted to identify what I'm white. and I have dreadlocks Here I am right. you know I mean like they make really. good food those pretentious people. they're food cars coffee yes yeah. yeah they make great food and those food.

trucks are out of this world. totally totally Portland is a great city. except have you noticed they hit all the. black people there's four or five of. them I saw I've seen only seen three sir. Harlem yeah mountain lions I keep. waiting til I come across the cage where. they keep them in the corn one corner of. the city because then it's amazing. especially like the core of Portland you. get the main part all the I you do not. see any black people you don't exa kins. you don't see Japanese people you it is. just white people dudes with beards. that's like a Pacific Northwest selling. coffee you see more of it in you.

definitely see more black people in. Seattle so it's definitely yeah what. pretty diverse yeah not fully but a lot. of Asian folks for sure but yeah bro. Portland I mean not even it's not even. Latinos and Asians no I'm like how do. you do that on the west coast where do. you put all those people if you're on. pages of past behind. there's goers just keep going. Vancouver's right up street. hey you you took a wrong turn keep going. keep walking let's just keep going north. yeah it's like it's it's a small city I. mean I don't think Portland right it has.

more than a million people right does it. yeah I think it's like it's like half a. million is it really in it I think. something like that yeah it's small I. know it the lack of diversity actually. is the only problem I have with it and. it's a fairly big problem that's an. issue but otherwise it's the best city. in America. I think really it's my favorite city in. America yeah I should say it's pretty. goddamn good lawrence krauss lives there. my answer there you go yeah there's two. of us 202 cool people to cross more. people I don't live in Portland right I. live in Salem which is an hour south but. we're still important a lot so it's kind.

of is that because of the University. yeah yeah and because it's way cheaper. to live there and it's also really. beautifully centrally located so we've. got we're an hour and 10 minutes from. the coast which is gorgeous have you. been to the Oregon coast yes amazing. yeah. and then we're an hour and a quarter. from the Cascade Mountains on the other. side and then all around Salem is the. Willamette Valley which is like Napa. Valley and Sonoma County Meath Vermont. it is so beautiful just radically. beautiful farmland all around there to. make a lot of wine up there to.

incredible wine the Pinot Noir is the. best in the world yeah but it's really. pretty just driving through there so man. it's yeah I'm telling you we also Salem. has Mexican so we do have a little. diversity because well the farmer. there's a there's a substantial. population of Latinos you have legit. Mexicans we got in sale not like we're. working on I mean Salem has been like a. dumpy town for a long long time until. just recently and now it's starting to. pick up we got some stuff going on and.

we even now we got a good MMA gym there. and a boxing gym just just opened in. Salem legitimate. yeah like team Team Quest people former. Team Quest people who's the trainer's. Nick Gilardi who's okay he actually came. up with jail and Randy Couture he was he. was trained as a wrestler by them when. they were doing wrestling only when he. was a kid and then he became a champion. wrestler and then they went into. fighting and he was like okay I'll do. that with you and he's a major sort of. Northwest MMA fighter now he's like. coach of the year in the northwest oh. great he's my coach we have a little.

it's really good MMA gym in in Salem. called the impact that's awesome impact. jiu-jitsu so your knee is we were. talking about this before the podcast. you knee feels like it's good enough I'm. really would love to start grappling I. never have and I'm scared of it because. of all the take especially the takedowns. you know the leg locks and all that. right so I don't know but I'm doing its. I'm still doing just stand up boxing and. and in Muay Thai kickboxing have you. ever done any yoga yes yes it's great. for me I know it's gonna help my knee it.

will definitely help your name I guess. so I mean stretching it helps just. strengthening and strengthen yeah I mean. just holding static positions like. static yoga positions for your back and. for your knees and your feet and so just. does I'm a broken record with this [ __ ]. so I'll stop right now let's peep the. people listening this podcast like Jesus. he's gonna [ __ ] talk about yoga again. I love it yeah so we don't we don't have. to talk no no that's I'm all about that. why you drinking Gatorade man cuz I'm. this is not right before he got Stricker. and this is terrible for ya that you.

might as well be drinkin I get dry mouth. around you you scare me I'm sorry I'm. just kidding you scared of the dark. scared look at you mr. muscles listen. now that you're all lean doubt you're. scared of muscle people ya know it's um. so Salem's it's it's interesting place. it's a it's a truly sort of like its. Trump country you know Trump country. it's like it's it's dudes with beards. who are not hipsters. you know who try to pick up drugs and. have a lot of guns and grunge they don't.

give a [ __ ] basically and it's sort of a. it's not really a conservative socially. conservative place it's more of a kind. of a libertarian thing and basically. this is my land don't mess with me. so it very much was the libertarian. table kind of kind of kind of most. libertarians hated him so they would be. better off with you know someone who's. an actual libertarian like yeah Ron Paul. he's type character he's the only reason. libertarians were attracted to all these. two reasons but the main one was that.

they were attracted to him because. during the campaign at least he was. saying things that sounded like he was a. non-interventionist in foreign policy. right and that's why I was at least. interested in him I thought there was a. possibility there of course he would. like you know for 30 minutes he would. talk like Ron Paul about foreign policy. and in the last 30 minutes of his speech. he would sound like an old Republican. about how you wanted to bomb the [ __ ]. out of people so who knows but now of. course I think what's happened is that. the generals have taken over I think. the establishment has just taken over.

well it seems like there's there's no. way one person can run every single. facet of being the president especially. not him yeah and he's got a hundred. different businesses worldwide that are. constantly ongoing or doesn't know. anything about the world so of course. he's gonna rely on experts and he also. we all knew this all along he loves. generals he loves that thing and I it's. pretty clear that mattis game in there. and just mmm-hmm took over his mind and. he said okay yeah I guess yeah I was. right about all that [ __ ] let's go well.

he's essentially said I'm gonna get out. of their way and let the military do. their job right exactly and like I know. guys that are like relisting because. they're pumped they painted the military. like Tim Kennedy UFC fighter he enlisted. three enlisted because he believes that. the UFC air of the UFC he believes that. the military now has the backing and the. support from the president and that this. is going to be great and they can do. their job now Tim Kennedy wanted to. serve in combat because he really yes. really the plastic goes to boil and.

possibly die oh yeah yeah just he's. doing that right now because he believes. in the cause yeah. where which part I talked to him about. it Isis what does he want to see one. skill I see Isis oh dude he gives his. address out to Isis. this is address on the Internet's is why. Isis come get me. I'd love to talk to Tim Kennedy yeah. it's a long conversation though I bet. you would want six hours a sign you. wanna take pee breaks and drink water. and let's get into this from top to. bottom. I don't want the smoothed out CNN.

seven-minute presentation in between two. Talking Heads on either side you don't. want that you want the long-form right. who is Tim Kennedy and why why does Tim. Kennedy feel this way and that's what. experience that's my podcast exactly. unregistered podcast that's what we do. and it's it's kind of a yeah that's. precisely what we do I'm interested in. people's personal histories and how it's. connected to their current ideas right. the roots of their political ideas where. do they come from. so it requires people who are self-aware. about themselves and a lot of people.

aren't but so far my guests are people. who really have a sense of the. connections between what happened in. their childhood and their early. development and and what they're. thinking now no it's a really. interesting thing if you can get people. to do that to connect those things yeah. to weave them together so if Tim key I. mean Tim Kennedy might know where his. ideas about serving in the military come. from other than you know my dad did it. or whatever it was but that's what I'm. interested in doing so in this form like. what you're doing here the long-form I.

love it it's so much better I I think. this is why I've you know a lot of. people who know me I'd say most of the. people who know me know me from my. podcast appearances here and elsewhere. I've been on a lot of podcasts and I. just I'm just more comfortable with it I. just think it's the best way to go I. hate being on cable news where it's like. you know two minutes or 30 seconds and. get this complicated idea out right then. and that's it and even radio I've done a. lot of radio which just sucks you know. the same thing 20 seconds sound bites. even 20 minute interviews I always find. frustrating either as an interviewer or.

as a guest even hour-long interviews and. you know totally I did an interview with. Ron Miscavige we did an hour and a half. and I was like we did like three or four. hours I'll probably get deeper and. deeper into the student find out well. yeah that's what that's what you do I. mean you know you go kind of you're. always going in and out. personal histories and their psychology. and then into their ideas and into big. abstract stuff and then history and. philosophy and science right you're. going in and always back and forth and. in and out connecting those things we. adhere together that's I love that I.

think it's the only way to go you get. the deepest understanding of people and. it's it sort of makes it impossible to. do what most people do is which is just. put people in a little box and throw. them away. right right dismiss right you know he's. a libertarian oh he's a socialist yes or. whatever dawn right so you know he's Joe. Rogan oh he's the UFC guy gone right up. I'm sure people do that to you all the. shore or he's Joe Rogan the masculine. macho dude not interested by right right. everyone's so complex most people are.

and most people are not the same person. who they were if you're pulling a quote. from them from two years ago or five. years ago or whatever oh they're just. not that person anymore. everybody evolves exactly and you can. box someone into some sort of a corner. by like not not to defend it but they. grabbed him by the [ __ ] speech from. 2005 for example it's your boxing a guy. in a corner who's trying to make another. guy laugh on a bus right and he's just. being gross crazy and then you take that. and goes this the guy you want for. president right yeah we could talk about.

that a lot I'm yeah I'm with you on that. when I heard you talking about that the. other day but um yeah it's the Trump I. have a lot to say about that but it's um. so anyway I think the podcasting thing. it's changing the game and it's it's so. great well it gives people something to. do while they're doing other stuff so. the Matt I think we're like 90%. audio-only downloads versus YouTube. somewhere somewhere in route so most. people are either listening during the. commute or while they're at the gym or a. lot of people even at work they put on.

headphones while they're you know doing. mindless [ __ ] but I think what it. does is it humanizes people yeah right. you get you get not the full humanity of. a person of course but you get much more. of who they are really and the. complexities of them and so people talk. about how we are all being siloed now. because of the internet right that we. just go to the websites we agree with us. and there's a lot of that versus. certainly but I think there's I actually. think the overall effect is just the. opposite I actually think that we have. much deeper understandings of people who.

are not like us because of things like. this right I mean. because of the podcasts and because. there's just much more exposure to. people's ideas and personalities and. there's more people talking in public by. the way I mean just imagine that right. like in the 1970s and 1980s when you and. I were growing up there were three. broadcast networks that all said the. same thing on the news show there were. three all that said the same thing. because the FCC wouldn't allow any. competitors to come into the market I. mean they just wouldn't allow it. then Rupert Murdoch broke that open.

right and then since then it's just been. flooded so now we have how many channels. how many networks how many in that. podcast and so when I was coming up as. an academic in the 90s if you didn't if. your book didn't get reviewed in the New. York Times or if you're an author of any. kind and your book didn't get reviewed. in the New York Times you were not gonna. make a living as a writer that was it. you had to get reviewed in the New York. Times and it had to be a positive review. that was the only gatekeeper to success. as an author now the New York Times is.

one of you know a hundred different. places or a thousand different places. that matter when you're writing books my. book renegade history of the United. States was ignored entirely by the New. York Times and I know why but it didn't. really matter people why oh because it. says all the things you're not supposed. to say if you're a good liberal left. liberal bicoastal elite person from. university like like Martin Luther King. was a conservative and hated black. culture you know really yeah yeah he was.

a very conservative person culturally. and he was basically an opponent of. black culture he didn't he was opposed. to rock and roll he didn't he didn't. even mention jazz until the nineteen. like late into his career and only once. he thought black people should sing. classical music European classical music. or gospel you know very respectable very. Christian very good citizen kind of. stuff and he hated the flamboyant black. preachers who were whooping and. hollering in the in their churches and.

speaking in black dialect he wanted. every all black people to speak correct. American English he was opposed to a lot. of dancing that was going on he just all. the stuff that we loved in black culture. Martin Luther King was opposed to it. wasn't because he was just an uptight. technical prick it was because of his. strategy and his objective which was to. seek full citizenship right and he. understood right in a way it wasn't in. his fault entirely you have to prove. yourself always in this country.

historically that you are just like. white people to get all the good stuff. to get the vote to get equal protection. under the law so that's what his mission. was assimilation assimilation has always. been the ticket to full citizenship man. it's just it sucks that that's even a. thought that the only way to achieve. quote-unquote full citizenship is to. ignore all the things that make black. culture special like comedy like jazz. like rap like just just slang just all.

the cool [ __ ] that black people have. figured out like the things to say that. white people have ruined like bro-bro. used to be like a cool thing. oh yeah the black people who say to each. other now it's like an insult for a. dummy like a frat dummies a bro now well. just think about like think about. America now if black people had never. been here. Oh what would it be like would you I'm. not sure I'd want to live here we. wouldn't even have blues so like what.

kind of music do we have blues is the. roots of all pop music all music comes. out of blues every yeah that's pop music. that's not European classical music as. comes from black people the original. roots basically you know of course white. we're involved in it you know of course. all that music but but all that stuff. the roots of it are in the slaves people. even European rock like Led Zeppelin. will they borrowed it they talked about. the stones the stones they were talked. about it all the time they're like you. know we're not we are not the rolling.

stones without muddy waters of course. Elias said it too. yeah all of that sort of stemmed from. but it's fast and so really think about. so that's the whole history that's. that's african-american history actually. is ordinary black people who aren't. interested in being just like white. people and doing their thing you know. since slavery just doing their thing and. being called [ __ ] by whites and also. and this is what people don't know civil. rights leaders since slavery like black.

political. leaders who wanted citizenship attacking. them for their culture just as harshly. as the Ku Klux Klan did and I'm not. exaggerating if you look at what. Frederick Douglass said about slave. culture if you look at what WEP do boy. sometimes said about the slave culture. and black culture then Martin Luther. King a philip Randolph Jesse Jackson al. Sharpton all the way through they are. saying the harshest nastiest things. about black working-class popular. culture you could imagine but again it.

was for this reason they wanted to. convince whites that we are just like. them so they'll let us in they'll let us. sit at the table of America they'll give. us the vote we can then become president. and so guess what happened. they finally a guy came along who was. black looking but who who lived in this. perfect nuclear Christian family wife. two kids didn't drink didn't do drugs he.

smoked but he stopped smoking pretty. quickly right very dignified spoke. perfect English right and guess what. happened he became our first black. president so Obama is absolutely the. apotheosis is a good academic word he's. the pinnacle he's the he's the full. achievement among that long attempt by. civil rights leaders black political. leaders to assimilate blacks and they. won in that way they got a president but.

what else did they win right and doing. that not much. I mean race relations now are they. better now hmm not really do black. people still say stuff in their hip-hop. songs that is not respectable even more. than ever and white people or black. people are thinking when they're doing. their hip-hop songs they're not thinking. that they're representing all black. people they think of they're. representing their vision right they're. representing what they see on the street. what they see in their neighbor exactly. uh exactly that's always going to be the.

case right the people this is the thing. you know I mean people who actually are. from those neighborhoods you know where. there really aren't any white people you. know if they're from the projects or. they're from you know these poor black. neighborhoods that are famous right I. mean. and large and we know this from what. they say in their art you know don't. give a [ __ ] about what white people. think about them right they're not. interested in citizenship they're not. interested in being good Americans. they're doing their thing as you just. said I mean they're interested in. represent seems to me they're interested.

in representing their aspirations and. they're interested in having a good time. which sounds trivial to a lot of people. but it's actually revolutionary right if. you just if you're interested only in. having a good time and pleasure and and. succeeding and achieving things for. yourself that's actually not American. because you're not interested in America. you're interested interested in yourself. so that's a person who's very unlikely. to volunteer like Tim Kennedy to go. serve in the military right right it's. very unlikely that that person will. become a cop it's unlikely that that.

person will obey the laws will obey the. the actual laws and then the cultural. laws they're not going to be good. Americans they're out for themselves and. I think that's actually always. historically for more than 200 years. provided this alternative for white. people we've always looked at that like. with this sort of split lens like part. of us says goddamn look at those look at. those primitive black people they do. they're doing the bad stuff we're not. like them or better than that and always. simultaneously most or many white people.

have looked at and said hmm that looks. that looks more fun we're doing maybe. we'll do that for a while well certainly. young white suburban kids that grow up. in these safe sheltered environments. always adopt that sort of radical badass. black rapper sort of listening to their. music wearing their pants low like sag. and doing all that stuff co-opting. various aspects of black culture that. seemed to be dangerous you know who you.

just described who my son oh no no don't. say oh no it's good is you sagging I'm. saying it's I'm good I'm Pro Wigga they. don't sag anymore this is the new thing. is these ripped jeans that's the hip-hop. style oh they were kind of like fitted. they don't sag but they're like just. shredded almost like an 80s look and I. said I said to my son is that I said you. know. back in the 80s like we laughed at those. jeans but for a totally different reason. and now that's the coolest thing that.

black people wear oh so he's doing all. that he's he is fully immersed he is he. studies rap lyrics he knows all that. stuff how old's he he's making beats. he's 15 yeah some kind of martial arts. quick what's he was trained I'm today. yeah now he refused really I tried to. get him in there a couple times good for. disappear at Joe Schilling and yeah I. think that's scared scared yeah I walked. in the first day and I had never done.

anything like that and I walk in and. there was job and I was like okay if if. people like that are gonna be doing this. I'm not I'm not having any part of this. cuz it's just terrifying yeah when you. get to know him he's a teddy bear. he's awesome Oh sweetheart some great. coach great guy yeah yeah I just think. for a young boy like it's a great way to. sort your head out I think life is so I. if I didn't find martial arts when I was. that age who [ __ ] knows what I started. when I was I was just thinking about. this I started when I was 41 Wow yeah I. took this abrasion his oxen lesson when. I was 41 Wow how's your double jab.

Church Street really you look off the. jab oh yeah really. hell yeah if you started at 41 yeah you. got some speed to it yeah yeah I got a. good job really yeah yeah I'm just I'm. told this think about Klitschko Joshua. this weekend's working fight boring. those guys are boring. Joshua's got nice Joshua's not boring. he's got great power his techniques okay. he's not great. I think Klitschko's got a six foot. people to sleep show you this is why the. heavyweight division no one cares about.

it right people to sleep the other way. by like being boring boring I'm silly. but Joshua puts people to sleep Josh. nice people out which is fun to watch. and I'm into that but it's not I like I. just love technique like I'm a student. oh so you're like a luma chanko guy so. yeah thank you for bringing him up we. gotta talk about this forget my career. podcast history [ __ ] all who don't know. please go on naked right now and Google. Vasily lomachenko he might be the best.

boxer that's ever lived he might honey. so I was worried about that we were. gonna fight about this but I think we're. on the same page here so he's on such. another level so much. work in movement I just can't come up. with a comparable I mean there's been. some amazing boxers way back to Sugar. Ray Robinson and Willy Pepin that all. those guys paved the way I feel like. everything evolves right every combat. sport even our music evolves to the. current state it's at now which you get. the best of the best right now and you.

go wow they've learned from Ali and. Sugar Ray Leonard and Roy Jones and. Bernard Hopkins and lomachenko is in my. eyes is the best the way he moves is. insane yeah and he's super aggressive. he's not like Floyd Mayweather who is. arguably the best ever you know multiple. time world champion in multiple. divisions 49 and OH. only been like hit solid maybe seven. eight times once when he got a little. rock by Shane Mosley yeah and then.

Maidana cracked him once but that's like. over the course of this spectacular. career but much more defensive oriented. brilliantly defensive very economical. with his approach but brutal hands hurts. and hurts his hand breaks his hand not a. lot of power lomachenko is on you like. glue stands right in front of you and. you can't hit him and he's going left. and he's going right and he's in he's. out and you don't know where the [ __ ] he. is. and he's lighting you up so is this he's. wide Vasily low mischenko is now the.

number one pound for pound fighter in. boxing what's that in Forbes him so. technically he can't be because his. record he doesn't he hasn't really been. tested he's got eight five no no I'm I'm. with you completely I'm just saying. technically yeah he doesn't have enough. fights I don't give a [ __ ] to be number. one I know so let me just say so here's. my history with lomachenko so like I was. like four or five years ago I thought. Gary Russell Jr was the greatest thing. since sliced bread and I still think. he's just incredibly fat the fastest. hands since Roy Jones easily and maybe.

even faster just and technically just. perfect I thought he was unbeatable I. thought he was the next thing and he's. still great great great fighter I love. him. he fought lemon icon I was like who's. this Russian dude I know he's your. cranium never heard of him and he tore. he took Russell apart yeah here's a. highlight reel okay he stands right in. front of people man he just has such. brilliant movement man. I mean he's like the perfect example of. like like New Wave like this yeah this.

side to diamond yeah he does this he. does this it's a hop actually he hops. inside and he'll throw a body shot off. of it when he gets inside on you but. he's basically standing at your side. boom like a birthday today. he's not like a brutal puncher he'll. step in or hop in yeah you know the. funny thing so I've been hopping around. gyms lately boxing gyms and here's. here's how I know. here's always there's here here's why I. think that he is the next alley which is.

that just in the last year every Boxing. Gym I've gone to people have taught. Lumet janko's moves hmm like as a. standard part of classes interesting. right meaning that he's changing the. game right it's kind of what you were. saying well you know Mike Tyson did a. lot of that to the other way people. didn't just hard as Mike Tyson right you. can actually do some of this stuff of. course he's a phenomenal athlete. lomachenko is and people not everyone. can do this but there are some things. here that you can do that have never. been done before. yeah like in particular that little hop.

step it's actually I had a coach call it. the I think it's called the low Machiko. jump or something. but you can do that you can what you can. just step in like that really quickly. but people for some reason just never. did it well Tyson did do it. Tyson learned it from custom on Oh. custom motto was teaching this way back. in the [ __ ] 50s yeah but his his. style was it's Mike Tyson's style was so. much different because he was throwing. howitzers at you it said yes lomachenko. is not knocking anybody out with one. punch. no no he's hitting you with multiple. barrage of punches but to think about.

they dropped him with a liver shot but. to think about like what lomachenko is. doing with this steady barrage is very. similar to what I've always said about. jiu-jitsu like if you want to really. learn jujitsu learn jujitsu from a small. man because small men can't use strength. and weight and all the physical. advantages they have to use perfect. technique so if you deal with guys like. Eddie Bravo or Hoyer Gracie or Barret. Yoshida like the really little guys are. the guys who have this stellar technique.

because they don't have the physical. strength Loma chenko you see the same. thing he's not a one punch guy he. doesn't have. some Tommy Hearns knockout ability or. Mike Tyson type power so he's forced to. have this brilliant movement in footwork. which is complete next level the the. footwork I think is the best of all time. and now he's you know literally. embracing the whole idea of him being in. the matrix. he has matrix shorts on now see I like. the matrix comparison I think of him as. the night crawler like you know he's. just teleporting around you he just like.

shows up suddenly right next and. disappears and shows up right next to. you there that that little movement and. the anticipation of the counter and. already being two three steps ahead of. you that last fight against Sosa yeah. yeah that was even better he improved. like he was even better I was like this. is getting crazy like it's so amazing. everyone should watch him this is a guy. like him in kickboxing who Giorgio.

Petrosyan I've seen George your patron. he's the best for sure some next-level. [ __ ] too definitely yeah I think so he. did lose one fight by knockout a couple. years ago but you madly yeah Randy risky. that's what was yeah well wrist he's a. brutal knockout puncher knocked out of. an wrist melon - yeah same year I think. well it's one of those things where a. guy like Andy wrist he has so much power. if he catches a human being on the chin. ya know it's not perfect technique but. men but nasty nasty power yeah I wanted.

to talk about germane to random e oh. yeah I mean cuz it's funny we're talking. about fighting I'm so happy. [Laughter]. well this podcast really you know I. don't know it's not real format - no I. we've all noticed Joe that's what it's. great about it I wasn't gonna say no I. mean I am it's funny I think the first. time I was on here a couple years ago I. said at the end that I wanted to be a. surfer deep down you know like I love. what I do and being a historian and all. this stuff but deep down I wanted to be.

a surfer now I don't want to be a surfer. I want to be a boxing coach really yeah. I really do yeah well a lot of people. that are intellectuals a lot of people. that live I'm almost like a sedentary. lifestyle because you're constantly in. front of books or computer screens they. long for this sense of adventure I want. to be a backpacker I want to go to Nepal. and most most academics and maybe this. is one of the reasons. had to leave that profession or I'm. trying to leave that profession is that. I've always been a physical person too. I've always been you know just in touch.

with my body in various ways I've always. been into sports playing them and doing. stuff I just you know and most academics. I'd say or at least a lot of them seem. to be completely cut off from their. bodies they just don't care what's below. the neck they don't care what they wear. they don't care how they feel they. certainly don't care how they look many. of them and they don't talk about the. body they don't talk about things like. this ever and until they look down on it. yeah that's the problem is they're. looking down on it I think that's very. short like this conversation right now. we had about boxing if you just took. that clip that last 10 minutes and you. put that in front of and you sent that.

to every historian in the country I mean. my reputation would be done now it's. already pretty much done yet are you. serious are you serious appreciates box. I love talking to people who aren't from. that world when I tell them about these. things and are like oh of course that. couldn't be it's no it's that bad well. what a silly world that has been it's. it's that bad they would think less of. me. Wow but ya know I want to be a boxing. coach I'm nothing I definitely yeah yeah. I mean I don't know if I can really make. it happen professionally but you know at. least on the side you know we'd have to.

have a couple fights don't you think. that's what I'm wondering I don't know I. mean I certainly can't coach pros right. but I mean I'm talking about people sort. of like it models yeah well I'm all. people who spar maybe maybe some amateur. fighters but I mean I'm working like a. little bit with a guy in my gym who's. trying to be an amateur boxer now but. I'm not his coach I'm just saying I'm. sort of like trying to cuz he's brand. new to this right and I just love it I. love it I left teaching I love teaching. and that's the thing about academia that. I've always just loved and that's why I. entered it because I just felt like I. was it was just natural for me teaching.

people things teaching is fun man if. you're good at it but most people are. not yeah right so when you teach. jiu-jitsu right I mean what you're doing. is and this is good for anything if. you're teaching how to fix a bike right. you take you're taking all these complex. ideas and this is what you're a master. at you take all these really complex. ideas and you package them you break. them down into little bite-sized. components and then hand them over to. the person right you've given me so that. they can consume it and understand it. instead of just saying you know oh. that's Japanese necktie go ahead do it. right which is what you'll see a lot of.

teachers do here's how here's how you do. a Japanese necktie now go ahead and do. it right. you're like okay no the the elbow goes. here I mean a lot of jiu-jitsu. instructors do this - of course but like. you know the elbow goes right here an. inch down there and then the knees here. and the membrane and so it's but it's. just like what I do I mean you take. these really complex abstract concepts. you know that and you give them back to. people who are completely new to them. right you have to you have to package it. not not dumb it down but distill it. right you have to like bring the the.

essential components down and get rid of. all the extraneous stuff and then just. hand it over to them and there's a very. clear simple way and then you can give. them give them the next part and then. you connect that and then you connect. that and next thing you know they have. this new radical concept of Martin. Luther King or they can do a Japanese. necktie right that's that's what. separates someone who's a really good. teacher versus someone who has maybe. some real skill at something but isn't. good at communicating like breaking it. down into a system like a step-by-step.

Russian system yeah yeah my coach I was. talking about in Salem Nick Gilardi I. got to give him a shout-out because he's. awesome he's one of the best could. what's that I said powerful Nick yeah. yeah yeah he he's one of the best. coaches I've ever seen because he he's. really a coaches coach like he really. cares about coaching and teaching he. really cares about teaching and that's. what he does I could stop L so he said. he was a team quest guy yeah he comes. down so Robert Follis who's also an. awesome coach I know he started out with. them and now he's uh he's extreme KOTOR. now yeah he's worked with a lot of like.

top level guys but yeah I mean that's. when the sport was being invented baisha. yeah yeah so he was at the beginning of. that as a kid Dan Henderson that wind. you know Randy Couture yeah but I think. it's just that I don't think it's about. his context I think it's about who he is. as a person just like me it's like it's. not no one trained me to be a teacher. right like when I was in when I was. taking when I entered college I had no. idea was gonna be a teacher but I. remember sitting in these college. classes it kind of weren't very good. and I remember think that I spent a lot. of my time thinking about how I would.

teach this differently than this guy was. teaching it and then I realized oh wait. I just I was I'm actually studying the. teaching more than the subject itself. how to communicate these ideas I was. studying more than the subject itself. and then I just it dawned on me finally. it's like oh well that means you. probably should be. teacher hmm and when I finally started. doing it in graduate school at Columbia. I was teaching you know philosophy. actually and yeah I just I've loved it. it was just my passion do you find this. deal is you teach things that it helps.

you better understand them too because. you go over them from a real fundamental. perspective precisely yes I see right so. you don't and that was the first thing I. learned when I started teaching was that. I thought I knew Plato really well you. know until I started in let until I knew. that I had to teach him the next day. mm-hmm then I was like oh wait a minute. I didn't quite actually get that. connection there between those two ideas. in his book you know yeah you have to I. tell my students this all the time I. said you need to be as comfortable so. comfortable with this text that you can.

teach it to your roommate who's never. read it before hmm that means what that. means is you have to think all the way. through the ideas you have to go all. with your mind. all the way through the ideas and them. come back through them right it's just. like it's like martial arts or anything. else yeah you have to actually do the. Japanese necktie all the way through and. come back all the way through it and. then you can teach it all the way. through the master it Taekwondo career I. taught I taught at Boston University I. taught my own school I taught classes.

like I taught the entire time it's more. the way I made a living and another and. it helped me tremendously it helped me. understand it and I didn't realize how. much it helped me until I started doing. jujitsu and I watched other people who. started teaching jujitsu just jump ahead. by leaps and bounds from where they were. a good example is my friend Brent he was. like a purple belt and he was always. like a certain level kind of a static. level and then not static but you know. improving but nothing crazy he was like.

everybody else right what jujitsu hard. takes a long time to get better and. you're around other people that are also. getting better so it's hard to look. really measure oh yeah you know but then. he started teaching and like teaching. full-time and then all of a sudden I. would roll with him and I'd be in like. great danger I'd be like Jesus and I had. a conversation with him once after. training with him like dude I don't know. what the [ __ ] you're doing but you're. your game is jumped like four or five. steps ahead yeah I feel like I'm the. same as I was six seven months ago and.

was like years ahead right he said it. was all just teaching and and I remember. now that that was the first time I. really felt confident as an intellectual. you know as when you were teaching the. subjects at once I had taught them it. was like oh now I actually feel I was. always I mean everybody's racked with. insecurity especially in graduate school. about these things you know everybody. feels like an imposter right because we. all these all all of us have you know. 500 books that everyone else has read. that you should have read that we. haven't read rom and I came from this. little [ __ ] college and you know Ohio.

and I was like a C student in high. school so I extra insecurity but once I. started teaching it and forcing myself. to as you said like learn the thing all. the way through it and master it and. then teaching it that's when I felt oh. yeah I belong here. I get it I really do have some solid. understanding of Plato now and I really. I really can do this thing you know it's. interesting that you're saying that. because that's a big issue with. comedians too and and like as they're. becoming successful especially they feel. like frauds like everybody I know says.

that I said everybody I know that sort. of like started to make it like as. they're like starting to headline and go. on the road places and do a television. sets and things along those lines you. feel like a fraud when you're successful. yes yeah you like I'm you know because. you look at yourself and then you look. at you know Dave Chappelle or someone. else Chris Rock and you're like I'm a. [ __ ] fraud I'm a fraud I'm not that. guy I'm a fraud I'm not Richard Jeni I'm. a fraud and then I'm sure it takes a. long time before you feel like.

comfortable enough to like say I know. what I'm doing in academia it's called. the charlatan syndrome right we all feel. like we're charlatans I think it exists. in everything everything difficult I'm. not surprised. and I think it's also probably a. hallmark of someone who cares yeah. absolutely that's what makes you better. yeah yeah I don't think every academic. has that but I think those who do are. the ones who are interesting and get. better right well I think the worse. would be the opposite someone is like. super confident way before their time. yeah that's what I mean yeah right.

they're gonna suck there's a lot of that. too though right yeah there's a lot of. weirdness and academia man no kidding I. can't imagine the stuff you guys go. through politically oh my god cuz just. you saying that you couldn't talk about. boxing because you would be thought of. as a. fool so that's the thing I know you're. really interested in this and I am too. and the there are some misconceptions. and that why shouldn't say they're. misconceptions I would say that there's. a distortion of what's going on and this. is not to say it's it's actually to say.

that it's worse than you think it is oh. so what most people who are outside of. academia think is going on is not quite. what's going on what do you think we. think it's something worse why no. because I've hear her doing lots and. lots of people talk about and it's not. your fault at all because you're not. there and all you do is get the media. reports about it so I think what most. people I get it from GAD sad and Jordan. Peterson yeah professors they and they. if you listen to them actually they will. they themselves will talk about it a. little differently but people still. consume it differently because the news. right is all about the crazy thing that.

the 18 year old said right at Wesleyan. or whatever or it's not the 18 year old. it's the 45 year old and sometimes the. 45 year old yeah okay but here's the so. that's stuff that really sort of Looney. stuff you know that you hear coming out. or protest you know people saying that. they are gonna die because you said a. word that happens it does it's all true. it's all there I've seen it but I've. seen it maybe at most one time a year in.

the colleges where I've been maybe not. even less than that okay what is and if. it were just that that's not actually a. big deal it's much worse than that. what's what's worse is that if that. there is a self-censorship going on. that's universal and profound constant. omnipresent like for instance you know I. never talk about my love for boxing. around academics or I'm very careful if.

I do but it's not even that it's that we. know that there's certain things that. can't be said on a college campus and so. we just don't say them therefore there's. no need to police us there's no need to. yell at us and scream at us and protest. what's the motivation for the for which. for the people that are holding back on. thoughts that maybe they would normally. express okay don't well here's what I. think it is for the senior faculty who. have tenure. meaning lifetime appointments cowardice. that's all it is I think they're cowards.

yeah if you are an adjunct like me with. no job security or if you're an. assistant professor up for tenure and if. you don't get tenure you have no career. I don't blame them I get it that's what. I've done to police myself because you. have to to stay in the game if you have. tenure lifetime appointment your senior. professor you make the decisions they're. on curriculum hiring and firing and. tenure the faculty make those decisions. and you don't challenge these crazy. ideas in any way or if you police. yourself you stop yourself from saying.

things that you you think are right that. you believe in you're a coward. I'm sorry those people are cowards I see. it's just overrun by cowards yeah yeah. yeah no I mean this they are very so. here's the thing I can't prove this this. is just I'm just saying this is this is. my belief but I think it's pretty well. informed because I've been around these. people a long time and in part I share. this the I think the worst fear of all. those people is being called a racist or. a sexist publicly and I think that is.

their version of being in a cave. crawling on their bellies in the pitch. black I think that's their worst fear it. and for not it's not entirely irrational. right you can you know you will be. publicly shamed you will the whole. campus will think you're a racist even. if you're not you might even make the. media and then pop and in the whole. world thinks you're a racist for a. minute but you're not gonna lose your. job if you have tenure you know you're.

unless you actually did say it did say. something that's truly racist. it's just cowardice I think that's what. we need we need those professors the. ones with the power and I'm talking. about they have absolute power on these. campuses right these aren't even like. politicians who have to go up for a vote. they're there forever unless they. basically kill somebody you know they. need to stand up now people like Jordan. Peterson and I have major differences. with him on sort of the content of his. ideas not about academia but on academia.

he's right completely and I'm totally in. solidarity with him what they did to him. and what they're doing to him we need. more people like him standing up and. saying. no I'm gonna say what I want in my. classrooms and on Twitter and because. that's people have been punished for. that too well they're trying to get him. to stop doing his YouTube lecture I know. which is fast I know because they're. very measured their long form he gets to. expand on his thoughts as much as he. likes he's very very informed you know.

again I have major disagreed. what is the disagreement disagreements. with him on gender and post-modernism I. think he's completely off but you know. how so and so so he and I know you agree. with him on this I think well maybe you. I don't know I'm not sure of it you know. it's this idea that there just are two. genders that's it and there is no good. okay he seems to think that so I think. there's a spectrum of humans in every.

single aspect of being a person I should. say I heard your conversation with him. and I could see and this was interesting. and he was exciting because I could. actually see you moving in a direction. that I found to be much more interesting. than his which is closer to mine which. is yeah that it this it's with feminine. men there's masculine women there's. Highland yeah Thailand right facts being. here we go merging all these topics. together one of the top Muay Thai. fighters recently I don't know if she's. still fighting as a [ __ ] mm-hmm in. different you know. well once she became once you got the.

operation her performance dropped off. pretty rowdy sure but that's just the. lack of tests I know your thing about in. a Fallon Fox yeah and I agree with you. there so here's the thing okay different. stores I totally agree with you on that. particular thing right whether she. should have been allowed to fight well. it's not that she should have been. allowed to fight I think she should be. allowed to fight women as long as the. women know that she used to be a man. it's fine Tatum was for the first two. fights she didn't disclose it right. because she said it was a medical. procedure and she didn't have to give up. the personal details of her medical.

procedure I say that's [ __ ] right I. say well you're dealing with a. chromosomal issue you're dealing with. the fact you have a different bone. structure yes. different mechanical advantages and 30. years of testosterone in your body it's. just not the same exactly but as long as. someone knows look I'm fine with drained. him remained around to me she knocked. down a man know if you ever saw this I. did she's I think she's just she's not. just oh yes [ __ ]. [ __ ] bad-ass I mean I don't know what. if she's taking anything into her entire. career it would just be pure speculation.

she doesn't look like she that doesn't. mean anything either right right but. she's so [ __ ] bad-ass and so. technical and so tough she's fought men. but she knew they were a man going in. she made a decision just like I think. you should be a lot of skydive just like. I think you should be allowed to ride. bulls I don't think it's smart right we. should be able to do whatever the [ __ ]. you want to do I'm all for freedom of. expression of participation and any sort. of dangerous activity my issue 100% was. that people are trying to pretend that. there's no advantage whatsoever and.

that's crazy. that's silly so the thing is what. they're so within that framework within. the rules we are operating in right. whether it's in fighting or whether it's. in you know this particular society the. wrestling girl and rest yes read all. about that too exactly so those are. that's a particular rule you're you are. agreeing to play a particular game right. right and you're just breaking the rules. that's all I mean you have you have. sortie well they're writing them break. the rules the rules are not and I think.

a lot of it is people worried about. being called transphobic or homophobic. or in any way prejudiced where they're. allowing certain people to compete in. these like this woman in Australia the. trans woman Ostrow that just broke all. these World Records and weightlifting. because she was a [ __ ] man her whole. life all sudden became a woman it's just. killing everybody then there's lifting. the runners and I think they're from. Kenya yeah or South Africa I know the. one from South Africa ticular forgot her. name - what do you mean the one that's. like a hermaphrodite who well I don't. know what she is but she's broken every.

record by like you know huge Saint. amounts I think she's just a woman with. an abnormally large amount of. testosterone I think they've actually. done chromosome tests I don't know when. I saw her in the Olympics I just yeah. just jumped out at man let's pull that. up because I'm pretty sure that that. woman actually has been tested and then. there was a real issue behind it and she. felt terrible about it because it was. just the way she was born really yeah. yeah well respect yeah I cook there's. men what if there's a tremendous amounts. of testosterone there's men that have. like almost none that's actually the.

major point we need to talk about you're. totally on the right track there I. totally agree with that that's the most. important thing which is that there's a. spectrum right. so to say that there are that 50% of the. world is male and 50% is FEMA nonsense. or man and men or what right thank you I. said I say to my students I say okay. there's seven billion people in the. world okay imagine in your mind lining. all of them up you know naked in front. of you. how many sexes do you see right this is. what I want you to do right get a. picture of Yoel Romero and put it next.

to a picture of Andy Dick tell me. they're the same thing. tell me this is even they're both men. tell me it's even it's nonsense I mean. right it's chaos you know it's like have. you ever heard a guy on the street say. man that's a lot of woman yes well that. suggests there are women who are less. women to that you know exactly that's. exactly right there's a spectrum and. there's no spectrum incise okay so let's. push it a little further. okay so so far you're doing very well.

some people are screaming that they're. [ __ ] Oh computer leave me I know. believe me I know it's going home oh so. that's well no I think you are he are I. think you've already went all the way. actually I mean so what there's two. things there's there's the jordan. Peterson view I don't think let me let. me put it out there I mean okay what I. think is he's saying which is that. gender is fixed and biologically. determined I'm pretty sure he does.

believe that hmm okay that's what I. would call sort of the traditional. conservative convention those both men. yeah exactly Jesus or not or you know. what or like there's more than two. categories in the world right and so. Andy Dick would be one well what do you. put me there I mean neither one of those. guys you're in the middle there I'm. neither one of them you're well see the. deal is both of them can procreate with. women okay yeah both met but a whole lot.

of tech people who are called men cannot. procreate with women a whole lot what do. you mean they're the trans woman. no no trans men lady they can't it. doesn't work oh so they don't develop. sperm yeah yeah of course so really. common yeah I weren't you tested when. when you were trying to get pregnant. no it's knocked her up dude come on it. certainly wasn't just shot I'm in there. and watch the fireworks yeah see there.

you go see you're more of a man you've. just proven yet again here's the woman. yeah Jesus Christ when you see yeah. that's not a great picture doesn't give. you a sense of how it does look at the. thighs and the bolt the mulch well three. times as high as most women whoa okay so. reports leaked out that doesn't really. mean anything I don't think she's ever. really been tested I believe she has see. if she's been tested what is it test set. but it leaked she was subjected to sex. verification test after she won the.

World Championships in Germany and what. does it say yeah oh yeah Zeke results. were supposed to be confidential but. reports leaked out that she had. testosterone levels three times as high. as most women other intimate details. about her Anatomy were also reported. yeah Samiha became targeted Semenya. Semenya yeah how brutal your first name. is seat the purse party name is semen. semen yeah. became targeted with abuse on social. media but what does it say this is so is. it saying that she's a hermaphrodite.

because we were talking about her you. know this is the clitoral size me it's. the equivalent of pretty much every. article written about Trump by the New. York Times you know eight Abram a report. was leaked by you know senior officials. said where's the actual evidence of any. of this stuff I don't see it what is it. it doesn't say anything so she passed. the test doesn't matter she must have. passed the test doesn't matter here's. the thing I think semen if I were if I. were a woman athlete right yeah I would.

want rules established it's like I would. want rule established defining the. physical characteristics of any of my. potential opponents hmm right so it. could be whatever bone density muscle. mass you know testosterone levels you. name it you you you could probably speak. to this better than I could but I'm sure. there's all sorts of ways you could. actually define that pretty precisely. and you can test those things and you. can say okay you get to be in this it's.

like weight classes and fighting it's no. different really right I mean. you're not allowed to fight someone. who's thirty pounds lighter than you are. and so you could do that in any sport. you could say right if you're above a. certain height or above a certain weight. or have this much muscle or that much. testosterone you're not allowed in this. category there's nothing wrong with that. there's nothing sexist about that. there's nothing anti-trans about that. it's just a different kind of but that's. all that matters right that if that is. the fact the problem was that Fallon Fox. had as you said more muscle more.

testosterone all these physical. characteristics that were fundamentally. different than all of the other women. fighting in that category in that. particular game that's all you got to do. well the problem is that you can do. damage to the person I know it's not as. simple as I'm playing basketball isn't. someone who had more testosterone it's. terrible to do that there's also like. there's a type of thinking that's. involved in discussing this where the. you you have to follow a line of. thinking and if you don't follow I think. you're transphobic you're a hateful. person and you're a bigot and that line.

of thinking is not science-based it's. just not when you when you talk to. board-certified endocrinologist so they. talk about trans people one of the. things that they talk about is the fact. that when you take estrogen it actually. maintains bone densities the reason why. they give estrogen to women who have. osteoporosis so this idea that your bone. density decreases when you go from being. a man to a woman it's [ __ ] you're. taking testosterone your bone density is. going to stay the same or get thicker. but if you're taking estrogen your bone.

density is also going to maintain it's. gonna help you maintain so when you. remove the body's ability to produce. testosterone its own there was a whole. article in Bloody Elbow of an MMA by. this board-certified endocrinologist dr. ramona critic and what she did different. than everything else all these other. articles is she's not a gender. reassignment surgeon okay all these. other people that are commenting on this. have a vested interest in it being.

completely neutral there's all these. people that are trans people that are. commenting on it and they're doing it. from a very biased perspective because. we're not talking about mountain biking. which there was a woman who used to be a. man who dominated mountain biking and it. became a giant issue. with people they first supported her and. then she was winning by such enormous. margins they were like well what the. [ __ ]. same as the woman in Australia that's. the weightlifter this is different this. is fighting and I think fighting you. fellas almost killed that woman she beat.

the [ __ ] out of a few girls but then she. lost Ashley Evan Smith who is a. biological female you know so it's you. can beat someone like that but again. Ronda Rousey probably beat the [ __ ] out. of most 135 pound men in the world or. she meets of course you know it's just a. matter of skill level it's no different. than peds like banning peds we want to. do that right right it's the same thing. it's altering the body's chemistry it's. abilities right and so you don't want to. compete against someone show us that. difference unless you know right as.

you're saying and then you can or unless. you're allowed to do the same thing then. it's all fair but but you couldn't you. woman would have to take testosterone. and balance it out and then you'd have. to find out how would you balance out 30. years of my body naturally producing. testosterone increasing your ligament. strength releasing your tendon strength. you say the mechanical advantages of. male hips are very different when it. comes to kicking when it comes to. certain types of movement women's hips. go out and then their legs kind of come. in at an angle and it's not not the best.

for kicking it's not the best for a lot. of different activities right different. so I would just say that a trans woman. is absolutely in my view a woman fine. you know I don't that's their identity. and I respect that however they want to. identify and because the category of. woman as you said is so fluid you know. let I'm not gonna say there's any. absolute about that either that it can. change and it's you know comes from her. her ideas right still I respect that and. I'll call you a woman I'll treat you. like a woman but that means we have to.

change the sports right and we have to. have just different categories instead. of yes woman sports and man sports we. need to have and women and man. categories in those sports we need to. have different categories that are about. people's physical composition have what. you're made up of right so it's just. like weight classes and peds there's no. difference to me well or there could be. the argument that a person a trans woman. is a woman but when you're talking about. athletic competition you're talking. about a very biological thing I'm saying. if you take you might have to say.

that someone has to be a biological. female to compete against I'm saying to. take a gender out of the sport right if. you take that if you stop calling these. gendered names then it's definitely not. true a trans issue hmm it's just about. what your body's made up of so for. instead of just weight class like. germane to random a is pride well Ronda. Rousey more likely is probably made up. just physically more like closer to a. man closer to you he'll Romero than Andy. Dick how dare you she's gonna find this. and she's gonna find you. gosh I hope so that someone likes to be.

hit it really choked out real fast yeah. so so that means I would just say you. know there should be a category you know. of in the sport you know for people who. are made up of that composition and that. could be people the Society identifies. as men and/or who identify as women or. whatever oh man that's a that's a. slippery slope why there's a lot of work. there yeah he's like what I mean how. would you define it what parameters. would use bone density well you know a. lot of african-american women have.

similar bone density to white males so. does that mean you should be able to. fight black chicks maybe yeah it depends. right so well no actually they kind of. are doing it with you up the old man. even though she's like what 60 years old. 50 you could crush me no but I mean they. are doing it in fact you just saw this. with what's-her-name caster somewhat. samanya well what are they doing with. all this it's the thing about. testosterone level what do they do. actually they brushing her no there's. there's a number for testosterone that.

you have to be below right to to compete. in that sport as a woman so that's. that's what I'm talking about just add. more categories not just testosterone. you have to have that's what this says. okay it says your testosterone goes. above a certain level you're not allowed. to compete as a woman so I'm saying have. that category and add more categories. like that and don't call it woman and. men just say it's category X you get to. compete in this category if your. testosterone androgen so what they're. saying no but it's so ridiculously loose.

it's saying a female with hypo and. drogyn ISM who is recognized as a female. in law shall be eligible to compete in. women's competition athletics provided. that she has androgen levels below the. male. like all you have to do is just be like. a couple notches below the male range. which is way above but I'm saying that's. not objectively determined you can do. that they're trying to get her to take. suppression medication or okay this is. all proving my point.

these are objectively determine I'm. knocking her tone it down we have. numbers right we say if you hit this. number for this category you don't get. to compete here but this is so it's so. rare I mean she has a disease. essentially where she produces too much. to stop it would apply to trans people. is what I'm saying right so if you but. would it because even so you're still. dealing with the mechanical advantages. of the male frame the wider shoulder. especially comes to hitting we could do. that to do with weight we do it with. weight already.

why not Wow height sure boy in fact a. lot of work that I've thought about that. right well look I'm sure you up to like. in weight classes right like I have a. huge advantage I always use it I'm 6 1. 165 and I have really long arms mm-hmm. so like most of the time people can't. get inside my job like I just put it out. there they can and it's just a thing. that's it but it's like I often feel. like this isn't really fair in a way you. know I don't have to be as good as they. are. mm-hmm I can be looser and it's true for. a lot of fighters but once they get.

inside on you they have an advantage. like Mike Tyson used that advantage of. being 510 on a lot of life is an. advantage I think he just was really. good at overcoming it hmm I think. there's fighting and having shorter arms. and he did the lower. he did the peekaboo past the jab. maximize doing well really but he did. that thing as did Rocky Marciano and. Danny he had a really good way of. getting in slipping the job and moving. constantly until he was inside on you. and then he would crush you with his.

huge left hook but once he's there he. doesn't have an advantage on you he's. just there and he's Mike Tyson but you. don't think it's harder for a guy with. the long-ass spider arms to punch a guy. who is in tight on you with short arms. and his throwing shots to the body like. Tyson - no I don't think so. I think there's advantages as long as. you're like physically competent there's. advantages in particular movements and. positions - all sorts of different body. styles it's very true in jiu-jitsu guys. with long arms and long legs and Chin's. you have. massive advantages with jokes you guys. can get Darcys and guillotines and.

triangles easier but you can also get. armed bart easier there's a mechanical. advantages and armed barring you there's. there's there's some weird advantages to. being like mr paul hores stocky short. guy well here's basket how about. basketball there you go. oh it's all advantage okay tall right. and in fact there are leagues not. actually there might be professional. leagues which are you know six feet and. under leagues. yeah many leaves oh many people most. people are under six feet all right so. who could never play in the NBA even.

though they're amazing basketball. players but they just don't have the arm. length and they don't have the height. and all that that's interesting so we. just need more divisions the UFC should. have like you know welterweight it. should be there should be heights within. it to Isiah Thomas was only five nine. there's a new layer for the number one. he's a great great player around six. foot they get listed higher to did the. cheat so he's sort of the exception that. proves the rule he's five nine but he's. really well three five three Mugsy was.

five three and dunked no I'm pretty sure. pull it up James may not have been a. super clean dunk but it was a dunk let's. see let's see if he dunked let go with a. video that's my life goal was to say. pull it up Jamie. okay this about Webb Muggsy does it have.

a video of him dunking you gonna want a. google Mugsy play Mugsy Bogues dunk he. did boom right there Mugsy Bogues dunk. Jamie. number two on Google hood say I've never. seen this in my entire life that's. probably not real yeah you really did I.

promised in NBA life is my memory is. that it wasn't a clean super clean dunk. but he did get the ball above the rim. with his hand on it we're gonna get to. the bottom of this later. gentlemen join me we'll get to this is. this is pretty essential if we don't. solve this failure there's a big. difference I think between team sports. were you know you could have an. advantage of having a spud Webb or a. Mugsy Bogues very mobile agile kind of. guy who can set plays up versus guy like. Shaq big giant guy who can you know get.

in the way of things and I think there's. all sorts of advantages and. disadvantages at size when you're. talking about individuals against. individuals that's where things get. weird and then when you're talking about. combat sports. that's where like people have just true. there's some people that just have these. tremendous advantages like you know Paul. Daley is mm-hmm. ridiculous power m hmm like almost. unfair like he hits guys and just. obliterate yeah but you know that's not. just strength stop Inc yeah yes yeah. mm-hmm and it's it's also geometry body.

geometry yes right yes a lot of skinny. dudes like me have power some yeah a lot. yeah right and a lot of big Tommy Hearns. was the best example a bunch of them but. he's also like this wide and then his. waist is like this and this angle I've. thought it's actually I've actually. thought its shoulder width yeah yeah you. get this wide the shoulders like that. torque yep exactly I mean it's just. great more to swing yeah that way yeah. for sure wide shoulders a rotate around.

the spine yeah often times equate. especially when they learn striking. sports at an early age you learn how to. develop that snap and fluidity tension a. lot of muscle-bound guys don't don't. right yeah they do they have a I think. you learn it's nice to go talk to Dana. and get this get this going we need. height divisions we need we need. testosterone you know divisions to comp. just after a level divisions estrogen. level divisions I think we're we're are. literally one generation away from being.

able to use CRISPR and all these new. genetic engineering tools to make people. whatever style of person you want I. think you're gonna be able to develop. six foot four super athletes that look. like Anthony Josh or Vitaly Klitchko or. Vladimir Klitschko you're gonna be able. to make those now what I would give for. Bionic knees right these are [ __ ] up. only not there okay there they're. problematic but I can I can function. fine but they could go out and any time. yeah you know what I mean if you've.

never worried about that you never had. to worry riot can you imagine. well if you could just read doing odd. but I'm telling you what they were. talking about before the podcast what. they're doing now with stem cells with. soft tissue injuries it's tremendous I. mean it's really amaze it's never. happened before what they're able to do. to people that have meniscus injuries is. literally shoot stem cells in there and. you regenerate meniscus tissue I mean. that's just never happened before and I. think that this is baby steps I think. what we're at right now it's really. really young I think 20 30 years from.

now because 20 years ago they didn't. really use it at all 20 years from now I. think it's gonna be insane they're gonna. be able to I mean they regenerated a. woman's bladder using her skin tissue. they built her a bladder she had bladder. cancer they built her a bladder and then. reinstalled it in her body now she has a. functional bladder that came out of her. own body that they're regenerated yeah I. think they're gonna be able to do that. with tendons and ligaments and all sorts. of tissue I believe it and hopefully. this is really promising they're gonna.

be able to do that with brain tissue so. people that have had brain injuries. people that have had CTE they're. hopefully gonna be able to use some of. these therapies to regenerate brain. tissue Wow. yes that's huge neurogenesis is life. that's that's the promise like god bless. him you know I don't know anything about. science I'm just a complete idiot when. it comes to math and science but man. just go for it and by the way as far as. universities you know I'm I am the. harshest critics of universities. generally but well mostly what I'm. talking about it actually the humanities.

and social sciences when I do that what. goes on in the biology building the. chemistry building the physics building. I don't know but I know that what comes. out of them is a better life for me. right and all of us right there making. this stuff we're talking about and so go. for it and so you know renegade. universities not we're not gonna do no. science we're gonna let we're gonna let. Harvard and MIT keep going have at it. guys you know because you're doing great. stuff I have no critique of that as far. as I know there's nothing going on there. that's wrong but it's just the. humanities and social sciences that are. utterly corrupt well we got way off the.

track here what we were talking about. initially was Jordan Peterson well you. disagree with him when a great gender. and what you agree with him when it. to the suppression of expression of. professors and people worried about. being called racist and sexist and. anything else. stifling free speech so what he's facing. is even worse than what goes on in the. United States in a sense in that it's. it's now legal persecution he is. actually you know it's it's against the. law to not use these gender pronouns in.

your class which is that's suppression. of speech that's suppression of academic. freedom it's a complete violation of. those things in fact and that's that's. totalitarian I mean there's nothing no. two ways around it my uncle Canada has. these these laws yeah right and they. have a human rights commission I think. it's called or human something. Commission Human Rights Council Council. and they'd it's like this body of people. who sit there and decide who should have. a website or not and my uncle this. actually happened to him about 10 years. ago he was accused of being a Holocaust. denier because and I don't even know.

exactly what he was saying on there but. he's a Ukrainian and I think he was sort. of just defending these Ukrainians who. were accused of being Nazis during the. World War two I don't know doesn't. matter even if he were a Holocaust. denier he should have his website right. the Canadian you go to that URL it's. shut down in effect they put a banner. now it says this is now like controlled. by the Canadian government or something. whoa oh yeah no they have no free speech. in Canada I mean there's no there's no. sort of doctrine legal or otherwise in. Canada of free speech it's bad and.

that's what Jordan Peterson's facing. it's because he's Canadian this would. not happen in the United States until of. course you know the sociologists take. control and then they will have these. laws but we don't have them here so he. actually could go to prison that's. what's that's what's happening he could. go to prison for not saying sir in his. class there was an article the vice. published that someone linked to me. today about this that I did not read yet. because I announced that Jordan is going. to be returning to the podcast and.

someone was saying that his. interpretation of these laws is greatly. exaggerated see if you could find that. it's a very recent article I'm pretty. sure it's illegal and illegal means you. can go to prison ultimately I think. Jordans wrong and I don't think a good. exaggerated in to this it's Italy cuz I. mean that matters a lot to me okay yes I. hundred percent in solidarity with him. on that and he's completely right that. the state no one should be telling him. to what to say in his classroom and. certainly shouldn't be going to prison.

for it or being threatened in any way. legally he was just a fine a fine right. people don't understand this it's. incredible how people don't understand. that everything the state does isn't. forced by the threat of ultimate. violence right so my mother even said. this recently she said oh it doesn't if. there's no violence with parking tickets. they just send you a fine I said oh. really so if you get the fine and you. don't pay it what happens when we get. another notice and then another notice. right mom and then another notice and. then finally what happens Corinne Gaines. is black woman in Maryland a couple.

years ago this is exactly what happened. she got a bunch of traffic tickets and. she's refused to pay them and ultimately. what happened the SWAT team came to her. house and and she pulled a gun and. should they shot her in the head that. was over traffic fines okay that's what. happens that's what it means to make. something illegal at the end of the day. for the for it to be meaningful as a law. the state has to use lethal violence to. enforce it. or the potential for lethal violence in.

other words if you don't pay your taxes. even if it's you know a hundred dollars. in taxes ultimately otherwise the law is. meaningless right right they have to eat. they have to put you in prison or kill. you well that was what was most. offensive about that Sandra bland case. we got to hear the interaction between. her and the cop yeah she did nothing. wrong and this cop is dragging her out. of the car and then ultimately she died. and they don't know how she died and. there she was pissed off she talked back. because they pulled her over flee told. her to put out her cigarette and write. and she says he was being disrespectful.

exactly yes she wasn't have you listened. to the actual record no no she just. wasn't following him to the like she. wasn't treating him with respect that he. felt he deserved hold on there. I think she was being disrespectful and. that's why she's my hero I mean because. really you think she was disrespectful. that's why she's a hero but I don't. think she was because you shouldn't be. just you shouldn't respect that I. thought I mean it's dangerous that's why. she's a martyr I'm not I wouldn't I. wouldn't recommend it to people I.

wouldn't tell my son to do that but he. deserved no respect the law enforcing. that law in that way treating her in. that way in that moment was deserved no. respect whatsoever and that's to me why. she's the hero not that she was a victim. she was a victim but to me what was. great about her was that she said no I'm. gonna put up my cigarette and why did. you pull me over for this this is. [ __ ]. well you have no reason to pull me over. and do this to me right now I'm on my. way to someplace I'm trying to get. something what was she getting pulled. over for I think he was a I think it was.

I it was a lighter so she like didn't. turn I think was a turn signal okay it. was something really trivial well I. don't think he has the right to tell her. to put out her cigarette so like that's. not a disrespectful thing I think he's. overstepping his boundaries I don't you. think you they do in your car I'm. smoking a cigarette in their car they. have the right they have the right and I. think in some municipalities the. obligation because you are supposed to. here's the thing or Joe I mean this is. the law there's the thing that law rests.

upon it rests upon us respecting legal. authorities right if we don't there. ain't no law yeah but there's no legal. authority for you to stop you from doing. a lawful act like if she has a cigarette. lit in her car when she gets pulled over. the cop says put your cigarette out what. he's doing is just controlling her they. don't think that's all they give them. latitude they give the cops latitude in. determining who is obeying their orders. and not so if this could be I'm sure yet. I'm not defending this I'm saying this. is the problem I'm saying that in court.

I would bet you anything he would say. that show that she wasn't listening to. me. she wasn't obeying my orders I think he. told her to like put her hands on the. car or something and she had a cigarette. in her hand so she had to take the. cigarette out of her hand to do what he. was asking you know the way I'm saying. that's all worthy of disrespect I'm not. defending it at all right the other. thing though about this and this is. something I've been working on lately. and I've been doing some work with some. people at free think media about this. but is I think I've changed my mind.

about this this has been a new thing for. me it's not about race my whole life. basically really really hard and this is. I've changed my mind about this when. things like that happen Sandra bland. Mike Brown Eric garner. even Walter Scott the guy who was shot. in the back in South Carolina what if. the guy with it planted the the Taser. well that's again hold on there. so I like everyone in the country pretty. much saw those things and thought eh.

that's horrific and B that's racist okay. and that what people do overwhelmingly. is they focus on what they believe is. the racism of the cop the individual. that that's what caused those cops to. shoot those guns in those moments I. think that's a mistake for one thing we. will never know why they chose to shoot. to pull the trigger in that moment we. will never know that it was racist.

there's no way to prove that there's no. way to demonstrate it and there's. nothing we can do about it you can't. what can you do to change people's ideas. about race or black people you can't. certainly not anytime soon what all. those cops were doing and all those. instances and this is why they got off. they were following the law and they. were following police procedure which. actually obligated them to do to do. those things so Walter Scott and believe.

me I was convinced that was a racist cop. that that was clearly a bad killing and. it was a bad killing but not for the. reasons that people are talking about I. have no way to know whether that cop was. racist and that's why he did that but we. do know and people have done work on. this that he it is very reasonable to. assume that he was doing in that moment. what he was obligated to do by law which. is if you look at the video carefully he. very well could have thought that Scott.

was still holding his taser. because Scott grabbed the Taser and then. dropped it immediately but if you look. at where the cop is looking he may not. have seen that we're talking about a. different thing then because I'm talking. about the cop that shot the guy and then. dropped the Taser near his body we're. talking about the same thing here's what. I grabbed the Taser before that here's. what happened okay yeah Walter Scott. grabs his taser he grabbed the cops. taser. pulled no pulled the Taser out of his. holster and had it for a second and then.

and then started to run and as he's like. turning to run he drops it immediately. and he's running away and he gets you. know a good whatever ten 20 yards away. and the cop shoots him in the back okay. so according to South Carolina police. procedure and according to Supreme Court. decisions the cop not only was had the. right but the obligation to use lethal. force because he could have believed in. that moment that Scott still held the. Taser in his hand if a person takes a.

police officers weapon police are. obligated to use lethal force to stop. them so if you look you just have to. there's a there's a video there's a. documentary about this it's called frame. I forget the number I think it's 394 you. might be able to find it Jamie but um. and it's plausible it's not definite. that this is what happened but it is. plausible if you look the way the work. the cop was looking he may not have seen. that that the Taser was on the ground. I'm super confused cuz I thought that. the cop dropped no no I'm not Fenton let.

me finish he's like so Scott running. away twenty yards in the back okay then. the cop walks over to him during that. time he does see that the tasers on the. ground next to him next to the cop he. picks up the Taser the cop does walks. over and drops it on the ground next to. Scott momentarily and then picks it back. up so who knows what was going on there. he he may have been and sure he may have. been trying to cover himself in that. moment but actually he didn't need to. that cop you know what happened with. that trial it's a hung jury he's he's.

free huh because of this because I'm. sure we don't know for sure but I know. this was the argument made by Scott by. the cops lawyer was that it is totally. reasonable to assume that he believed he. was he had reason to shoot him legally. so that's one part of that story right. which is that the law is the problem. okay mhm not the cop stop focusing on. the cop you'll never find out you'll. never be able to prove that he did it. because he's a racist and even if we did.

what's that gonna give to what's that. gonna get us that's not gonna save. anybody the next time this happens right. but what will save people is if we if we. change those laws here's the worst law. that really made the whole thing happen. in the. first place that no one's talking about. the whole thing started when Scot was. driving through North Charleston right. the cop I think it was a suspended. license plate or something or a. taillight taillight I think was a. taillight something trivial pulls him. over at that time Scott was in arrears. on child support payments right and you. go to here we go you go to prison if you.

if you get behind on your child support. payments and he had been I think put in. jail a few times in his life for this. you get put in prison and there's a. whole bunch of men right now as we speak. in prison for that very reason and these. child support payments by the way are. set by judges often in a system that ret. that massively favors the women the. mothers that whole system you've never. been divorced right I have you know as. soon as you enter it you see right away.

that the whole thing is stacked against. us and it's this is you know it's just. you look into it if you don't believe me. I believe you you have to basically my. friends and I went to a mildest divorce. I mean my ex-wife was as as easy on me. as you could be but nonetheless I ended. up paying a lot more child support than. she really deserved and very but not a. lot I mean but it was but a lot of men. Oh in fact he would do have a friend. this happened - I think right yeah yeah. you go into these court rooms and it's. basically down to a judge as to a friend.

who has to pay alimony for the rest of. his life yeah he was married for 12. years he's been divorced for fourteen he. still has to pay his ex-wife he's. married to a new woman he has a new. family he didn't even have kids with. this woman that's has to pay her forever. yeah forever. imagine if she dies Majan if they had. kids he [ __ ] her so hard she can't. work anymore forever how about that. that's a crazy lot to say about that. yeah but that's a crazy law when they. have winners kids involved right forget. that's that's a very sexist law by the. way because that's laws implying that.

this woman is incapable of making an. honor around thank you by definition. it's a feminist yes it's anti-feminist. and it's sexist and it's patriarchal. right it's totally patriarchal women who. support it they're supporting it because. they don't like men I mean that. literally would is what it is no I don't. know listen if you're supporting a woman. never having to work again because she. married a guy for a certain amount of. time like relationships come and go. people get tired of each other. people have the right to change you. shouldn't be financially obligated to. take care of someone for the rest of. their life just because you were married.

at one point in time that's crazy I. completely agree with you especially in. today's day and age where my friend is. 54 I think years now he could live to be. a hundred so what the [ __ ] he's got to. pay for her for another 46 years that's. insanity. phenomenal yeah but again when yeah. that's I agree with you completely but. what you said just then about it being. sexist it is that's a radical concept. that hasn't even I think registered with. most people and if many people heard it. they would think you are a sexist. yourself for saying it but you know what.

it is inescapable that that's what's. going on that cynicism against men is. very common it's sexism against women. too yeah that's what we're all so. similar and that's the rattle part of. this right it's actually patriarchal in. the most fundamental sense which is that. the court is saying that the man should. be the provider I'm gonna tell you story. there's a woman in Florida who was it. was a bit in my act that I'm doing now. it's a true story there's a woman in. Florida was a cop she was 25 years old. she pretended to be a high school. student and she's attractive woman made.

friends with his boy he thought it was. his girlfriend and she talked him into. selling her pot and then she arrested. him that only works when you have a 17. year old boy and a 25 year old woman if. you had a 25 year old man throwing dick. your 17 year old daughter and then he. gets her to sell him pot and then he. arrests her there would be people lining. the [ __ ] street with torches to kill. that guy but people are sexist against. boys they feel that boys should just. keep it in his pants that boy should.

know better and you know as well as I. know when you're 17 years old. you are a baffled bag of hormones with a. boner just running through the world. trying to figure out what the [ __ ]. going on and you're 12 months away from. being an adult it's chaos it's craziness. - and to think that this young boy. should be able to think clearly in that. moment while this 25 year old woman is. manipulating them is insane but they. allowed it and this kid has a felony on. his [ __ ] record right now yeah this. is this is the root of the issue with.

feminism that is current feminism it's. its current incarnation I am a. by the way how dare you can define that. leave now sir but just being a Galit. Aryan oh yeah so well that's it I'm not. that either I'm not an egalitarian but. uh you're not no hold on too many topics. I'm Jesus Christ we go off a lot of. branches here I know I love it. where was it going oh this what you did.

was you identified and I think actually. we I talked about this the first time I. was here which is that you know this is. what's to me at the heart of this is the. appalling irony at the heart of. contemporary feminism as practiced by. self defined feminists okay many not all. guys I'm not general I'm not saying all. feminists are like this but I'd say. certainly it's the dominant strain right. now which is that it is at its heart. patriarchal which it treats women as. vulnerable weak powerless incapable of.

making their own way in this world and. it treats men as the not just forget. about the men forget about how they. treat men it's how they treat women. that's sexist it says that they need. protection from the state which is run. by usually men but it's also this other. institution or you know college. presidents need to protect these women. from 19 year old boys who want to have. sex with them same thing they're. constantly calling for women to be.

protected by these institutions the. state by men it is patriarchal and. sexist right at the at the heart of it. and same thing with Family Court and. divorce law and all that stuff that's. how they get treated they get treated. like they're the ones who need to be. taken care of by a man it is it's like. 1950s sexism. it's like madman sexism that's what. that's what most feminists are calling. for now well I disagree when you're. talking about child-rearing because I.

think that child support is should be. absolutely mandatory and it's very. important and if a woman is the only one. raising the kids on their own not only. does she need the money for food and. housing but also probably for someone to. babysit her kids there's a lot a lot of. factors involved in total agree. and if the man's not in the scene like. yeah he owes money for sure he has a. responsibility and as a father at the. very least that's what you should be.

doing is contributing financially I. totally agree I totally agree I'm not. opposing alimony and alimony is weird. yeah that makes no sense at all it's. weird. well it's I don't think it's a bad thing. if someone like say how about this say. let's turn around say you had a wife. who's wealthy. mm-hmm and she was taking care of you. while you're going through school and. she promised that she was going to fund. you all the way through your ph.d. program she was going to give you money. so you didn't have to worry about. anything but your education and then.

once you got out then you guys could. share income but somewhere along the way. she decided she was done with you and. then you're [ __ ] but you're in the. middle of this program that you have to. pay for I don't think it's unreasonable. to say that she should give you until. you could figure your own system out so. you don't have to quit your ph.d program. and go get a job somewhere and get an. apartment in a car I don't think that's. that's it I don't think that's. unreasonable what's unreasonable is. saying that because you guys were. together for a certain amount of time. she has to pay you for the rest of your.

life sure that's insanity sure and. that's current I agree that's real I. agree that's sexist but should that be. legal though should that be legally. enforced should courts be deciding how. long the alimony is paid I don't know. how is that happened like what what's. the motivation behind that for the. courts to succumb or to give in I just. explained it to you it's sexism its. patriarchy it's and the feminists are. playing along with it that's it it's the. site yeah it's this idea that when we. can't make words though I mean isn't the.

courts like a lot of men involved in. those courts I mean why are they. allowing all this yeah and most of them. think basically like feminists or at. least they they are expected to behave. and make decisions like feminists. feminism has become dominant in that way. you know going on for decades. yeah just laws have existed like long. before feminists I know that's my point. it went from sexist patriarchy those. laws oh I see so feminism is basically. continuing that stuff in its name. definition let me say really loud and.

clear there have always been. feminists who hate this stuff much as. you and I do many okay and they have. been loud and clear about this for a. long long time and I love them and. they're my heroes and I've learned from. them this is I've learned these things. from them okay but the ones who really. are you know powerful and dominant in. the media the ones we hear from the. public intellectuals the academics. government leaders the people who end up. in the White House you know Obama's.

staff in HHS Health and Human Services. and the Department of Education became. very clear to me that all these sexual. assault laws and rules that came out of. there they were they were coming right. out of colleges and they were really of. that they were of the sort of College. feminist movement they were the ones who. set that letter in 2011 that made it. basically mandatory for colleges to set. up these kangaroo courts for sexual. sexual assault cases all the nonsense. you and I talked about here years ago. yeah yeah anybody interested review.

those or earlier podcasts about your. college about oxide oh yeah as many. colleges yeah but you know there's a. whole backlash now right there's a huge. it's all turning back and I knew is. gonna happen right now they're. completely being decimated there's. hundreds or maybe even thousands of men. who are suing in court and many of them. are winning right now for good reason. because there was no due process right. because they weren't allowed to you know. ask questions well that poor boy the. mattress boy where that girl put a. [ __ ] mattress on her back and dragged. around campus and then took her.

graduation speech with a mattress they. went onstage with a mattress I mean the. whole thing was so [ __ ] crazy oh yeah. my yeah there's a fantastic sex worker. activist named Christine Pereira who's. in Vegas she said she tweeted something. like when that happened he said [ __ ] you. mattress girl for those of us who have. really been raped you're a [ __ ]. disgrace whoo she went off is something. like that yeah and it was yeah girl. seems pretty crazy that mattress girl. yeah that was an extreme example that. boy is suing that school yeah they're.

also yeah and many of them are winning. and I don't know what happened in those. cases I don't even know what happened to. mattress girl for sure. for sure I know that there's all kinds. of evidence so sure looks like it didn't. happen the way she said it didn't know. for sure and I never will we will never. know. we can't know but we do know. absolute sure is that there's been. terrible or no due process right in. those cases right and so that's the. problem I mean that basically the. accuser gets to win every time imagine. if that was our legal system writ large. right right Joe you stole a million.

dollars from me yesterday. alright put him in jail right that's. basically what's up exactly okay yeah. well I mean it got so crazy that even. Rolling Stone printed a false rape case. that that gang rape case and you vak. astonishing which is just how did a. company that's been in the journalism. business as long as they've been how did. they [ __ ] that up yeah that was that was. the turning point I think when that came. out that I was completely made-up I. think since then it start it started to.

turn so I think that's good the things. like that happened so that you realize. why it's important to have checks and. balances and that people it reaffirms. this idea of real journalism is. important it have your facts in order to. have checks and and and double-check. things and make sure you know what the. [ __ ] you're printing I think it's good. for society I think it's terrible for. John Doe all the John Doe is out there. all those men who were accused and. expelled and had their names ruined and. their careers ruined right college. careers destroyed and all that right I.

think but yes you're all so even if. you're exonerated the emotional turmoil. then you go through there's no way they. can reward you for that there or. compensate you for that rather so that. but that is part of that whole thing as. I said before is part of this sort of. ironic feminist patriarchy yeah ideology. right which is you know we need. protection we can't we can't because it. because it's we can't say no to men we. can't stop them by saying no we need you. know we need help just there we need to. do we need the college president to save.

us or the cops or someone it's it's. incredible well then there's also this. thing where two people are drinking and. if the two people are drinking the girl. is getting raped there you go so the. guy's not getting rid of women yeah are. incapable of controlling themselves when. they're drunk yeah exactly because the. man's drunk too but it doesn't somehow. or another it doesn't matter even if. they're both like sending text back and. forth do you have condoms like the. occidental case hey tree article. our children their daughters we're going.

to be taken care of by dad and the sons. our men yeah you know they're just same. age and they're boys yeah yeah they have. full agency yeah and the women they're. the women our daughters yeah it is. sexist it's incredible yeah. so so okay gender Jordan Peterson so I'm. completely absolutely with him. you know when it comes to that when it. comes to policing of language right and. but he as I said he I could be wrong.

about this but it sounded to me and I've. listened to him on your show and of. listen to him elsewhere and a lot of. people have pointed him to me and vice. versa because they think we agree on. these things and we don't which is that. he thinks seems to me that gender is. biologically determined that there are. two genders they're fixed in nature and. that's the end of that discussion know. if he's ever said that and I really. don't think he has well I think he's. said that when it comes to gender. identity that he doesn't believe that we. need more pronouns no he thinks it's. just wrong if you think you're a woman.

when you were born with a penis it's. just by it's just sort of absolutely. wrong yeah I think you'd have to find. him saying that before I'm really glad. to hear you say that because I wasn't. sure where you stood on that no I mean. thick man that's a big deal people I. think that's a big deal it can get super. weird when okay how about Rachel Dolezal. hmm she identifies being black right. yeah she's a trans racial mm-hmm how do. you feel about that. I think she's correct not hang on let me.

let me let me tell you what correct. means they're not in a not in an. absolute way right no scientific. objective way right but it's just as. true as anything else. meaning that because so race and then. here's where here's here comes Sam. Harris now and I'm sure Jordan. Peterson's in this boat too hmm I know. Sam Harris's because I just heard him. talking about this with charles murray. he believes there's there are races of.

people he thinks that race is a real. thing he's definitely subtle about it. and who wants he says you know it's the. the divisions between races and the. lines are blurry and you know but he. believes there's a biological basis to. race he's very clear about that. and that is to me absurd and completely. unscientific and it's easily disprovable. by according to his own standards and by. scientific standards but if you see a. black from Kenya you see a white knees. guy from China uh-huh what's the. difference no difference well here's.

here's the answer you tell me right. which is that so historically mm-hmm the. differences between them have changed. that we people human beings have said. different things have created different. categories and filled those categories. with different characteristics over the. centuries those have changed constantly. right and my first time I was on here we. had a long discussion about what's in my. book renegade history on immigrants. Irish and the Italians and the Jews when.

they got here to the United States here. and in Europe they were largely. considered to be Negroes right right and. now there is why does anybody write so. what are they at that time in the early. 20th century it was not like when I say. common belief I mean it was taught in. schools the following taught at Harvard. the following that Europeans were made. up of three distinct races there were.

the Nordics in Northern Europe the. Alpine's in Central Europe and the. Mediterraneans in the southern Europe. and they were very different. biologically the Nordics were rational. intelligent disciplined they were the. ones who made civilization they should. run the country that Alpine's were okay. they could be decent farmers but they're. never gonna do algebra and they. certainly can't run a government the. Mediterraneans were basically either. like Negroes are really close and.

therefore should be slaves or just. peasants that's my people ya know yeah. you're talking about a long time ago no. we're talking about a hundred years ago. which historical holding your breath you. know you love ancient history I mean. look at the whole sweep of human history. that's five minutes ago right it is but. it's still a long time in terms of how. we address it today but if you addressed. it today if you're looking at it someone. from China. or you're looking at a dark black man. from Kenya yeah there's something.

different about them do you think it's. just melanin sure that's the horse. there's something different about them. right many different things there's no. so where do you draw the line about. around races though right so look at. take all the people in Kenya mm-hmm okay. which ones are Kenyans and which ones. are they all Kenyans and what makes them. Kenyan or are they all Africans well you. know you can are they all black right so. you've all passed on someone and find. out where they're their origins are you. can find out how much Irish you have in. you so much South African you can me you. can do all that you can go all the way.

back to you know your family lineage. through genes I get that total if you. want to go all the way back we're all. African sure well there you go that's. another way to disprove this whole thing. right right but it's disproving it. because I mean these it's not just. moving it sorry that's a bad word to use. here it is calling it out as a fiction. mm-hmm as a social construct which is. that these lines have been drawn all the. time in all kinds of different ways over. the centuries by human beings who just. look at all the people in the world they.

line up the seven billion people right. in their mind and they draw lines is. that oh these people over here this side. those are the Negroes and over here. these are the Mongoloids and over here. these the Asiatics and over here these. are the Nordics and over here are the. Aryans and the Jews and is it mm-hmm and. has change all the time but these are. his categories we invent right so who's. black Jimi Hendrix black well Jimi. Hendrix has a mixed background right me. wasn't his mother white and says what's. his real black Joe what's his race is he.

black or white it's a good question. there you go got a lot in them but soon. but there's a big difference between. someone like Jimi Hendrix and someone. that is like very very dark okay comes. from a specific part of the world where. everyone around them is very very dark. let's do that they have very obvious and. repeatable characteristics let's do that. so Congo these knives come for sure I'll. go okay the people there they're pygmies. actually you know what do we need to do. West African okay okay where slaves.

where the West were the Western slaves. American slaves come from and just. across the continent not even that far. away. you know there's Somalia. you know what Somalians look like right. yeah and Ethiopians mm-hmm right you. think about them and how they look and. think about how you know a West West. Africans look are they the same race. well very very very visible. characteristics Molly right Somalis look. different than everybody right clearly. right you know a Somali immediately. right same continent same pigmentation.

basically very rayon yeah under facial. structures very different mmm why are. they black why are they the same race. but is that the same race I mean what. I'm saying about Somalians like would. you would you consider Somalians the. same as like Ethiopians or as the same. as Egyptian my thing is also Africa my. thing is let's get rid of these. categories there these are all silly. made-up categories there's no reason to. do they're all arbitrary.

okay lines have been drawn between. groups of people arbitrarily over the. centuries well what you see you're. arguing against something that sam. harris said so what did sam harris a. specific studies him it's a lot of. people but so you don't agree that there. is any race at all I'm just saying it's. a fiction it's made up right it's just a. it's like is it a fiction others in a. way we're trying to define the. variations between human groups because. there are variations oh that's. definitely what it's been about that's.

definitely been the motivation mm-hmm. right and think about what the. consequences have been okay but it's. never been good just because there's. consequences for variations or. recognizing variations doesn't mean you. should stop recognizing actual. variations so then you make but they. always make claims right after that like. don't have to what's and there is. strawman isn't it I mean you don't have. to make a claim that Chinese people are. different because they look different no. but you say well this is what a Chinese. person sure generally they have these. very stringent characteristics they.

don't have blonde hair they don't have. blue eyes not tall and skinny they look. like Chinese sure but then again Chinese. people all look the same I mean there's. no I'd say that right but again was a. clear characteristic the difference. between a Chinese person and a black. person is very clear not really well not. always Kenyans who lives in Kenya who's. born. multiple generations deep and their. parents are Kenyan their grandparents. are Kenyan there's a very big difference. between them and someone who lives in.

Shanghai yeah but who was born in. Shanghai their parents are born in. Shanghai they go all the way back you. know many many generations of being pure. Chinese right but there are infinite. variations even among people who have. lived only in Shanghai but do you want. to call it variations. nothing but what are you talking about. something that's clearly identifiable. you just I would say that there's of. course there are genes that run in. families and I completely agree that you. know genes determine in large part how. we look fine.

so you can certainly say this person is. likely because of their genes connected. to that person last generation to that. generation to this you know in his. family lineage sure well what does that. give you I don't know nothing I mean. it's the thing is that people have taken. that and they've said oh well these. particular characteristics are human. beings were talking about complexity in. human beings at the beginning of this. right people are infinitely complex. right okay so the thing is what people. have done historically is they've just. picked certain characteristics among.

people and said ah that is what. determines your race is the issue the. word race is maybe the issue like there. are obvious physical characteristics the. difference between like someone who is a. Mongol versus someone who is Brazilian. versus someone who is there's some. pretty obvious physical characteristics. for geographic areas which would you. agree like or common physical. characteristics for some geographic area. sure you could say on average people in.

China are shorter than people in. Polynesia well here's a place where you. could do it Canada I can try to find a. Canadian like you don't know what a. Canadian looks like they could be. English they could be American they. could cause trying to entertain your. your strongest argument okay so like. China right you could certainly say that. people in China are on average on. average shorter than people in Polynesia. right will they look different that's. one way in which they look different. right they're talking about.

physiognomies facial features that bone. structure yeah Polynesians find be like. really stout pea. I suppose you could say you know the the. width of their eyes is narrower or. whatever on average and whatever sure. okay okay so what that's it I mean what. did we okay so they they are likely to. be in lineage from that part of the. world fine that's cool I got no problem. with that but what else do you want to. say the thing is Joe no one stops there. they always go on to that they always go.

on from there and they start to make all. these other claims oh well. that race is really good at math their. IQ is higher this is what actually sam. harris and charles murray we're just. saying they can do the they can do the. they can do the coding for google better. than then other people can whatever. right they are more they are more. scrupulous they smoke cigarettes more. whatever it is you know they used to be. accused of being more easily addicted to. opium you name it right things change.

but that's the problem is that once you. start there people have used those. differences for other reasons almost. always which are nefarious and injurious. terrible things to people your problem. is recognizing those characteristics and. those differences and calling it a race. and then attaching all sorts of other. claims to this category precisely okay. yeah that's exactly what sam and charles. murray this is charles maurice thing.

although it's actually it's only a small. part of his work and he gets accused of. it being central and it's not but anyway. he does still nonetheless believe this. and so does sam harris and so does other. people that there are differences in IQ. among races okay now on the surface. level they are completely correct. there's no question meaning that IQ. scores among people that we identify as.

african-american have been lower than. among the people we define as white. american totally true totally true and. they are right that that is suppressed. that we are not allowed to even talk. about that data which is there and it's. i have no problem with that i'm sure. that's true. here's the thing though how do we define. african-american and how do we define. white first it's the first problem those. as you know definitions have changed. over time so Jews used to be in the.

african-american group and Italians used. to be in the african-american group well. no no they were never called. african-american yeah they were they. were called Negroes why yes they were. Jews were called Negro is a book written. is in my book renegade history in night. in 1911 there was a book written by a. scholar and this was one of many the. title of which his name was Arthur. Abernathy the title of which was the Jew. is a Negro as the title if that's a. layer it was common this is what peace. is what year visit this is all through.

that late 19th and early 20th centuries. from about the 1880s when the Jew. started coming over in big numbers from. the 1880s into the 1940s this was I'm. not I'm I'm saying this is what was. taught in college classrooms that Jews. were of a different race and there was. some difference of opinion about whether. they were black or whether they were. just some other kind of inferior race. but they certainly weren't white. that was widely agreed upon until World. War two basically all right so how do we.

define african-american is Jimi Hendrix. african-american does he keep talking. there's a big difference isn't there in. the term african-american versus Negro. right because it's the same thing it's. just a different name for the same. category yeah but it's from Africa they. knew that these Jews weren't from Africa. so the sort of one drops is a continent. I don't know they believe that they they. believe that the genes and the right. about this right the genes come from. okay yeah so that's you know and they're. right but so do all of our genes right.

right so that was part of their claim. and that they were from you know part of. Europe that was a bit closer to african. isn't wooden and they said about. italians in particular Sicilians right. they're like look where it is that's why. these people you know are [ __ ] all. the time and having babies and true and. lazy and can't work a fight in the bars. and get drunk and right right so so how. do we define these terms what is white. man that's totally changed but how much. of it is right the real gosh is how much. of it is cultural so there's that hold. on and then and then IQ well.

I think it does measure something I. think it's real I do I really do I think. there is something called this is a G. factor which it it it it tests it. measures G factors this thing that was. invented this concept it's a category. but it's a real category in the world we. operate in which is your ability to do. rational thinking reasoning like math. like writing scholarly essays you know. I'm sure my G factor is higher sort of. than other people's although I'm.

terrible at math so that's yet another. problematic wrinkle for these people but. yeah III believe that IQ measures that. stuff that kind of thing. but is that what intelligence is and. only is clearly no no no IQ test test. right the tests all kinds of. intelligence they test emotional. intelligence do they test the. intelligence of Jimi Hendrix do you. think he was great at calculus I don't.

know I sort of doubt it was he smart was. the intelligent clearly in different. ways clever with a guitar that's sure so. then how do you define intelligence. right creativity is unquestionably some. sort of measurement or expression of. intelligence we separate that off though. and we always have as a society we. shouldn't that's why you don't do well. unless you're really really really good. if you're just creative and the way we. define that and not intelligent in the. way IQ tests define it there's a so it's.

all problematic and just it all it does. is ask what it just keeps raising new. questions it never has answers and so. that the attempt took there's this thing. that goes on we're like certain people. just need to keep finding racial. differences that are innate biological. fix that can't be changed it's like. first of all you've never done this. because it's so fluid and you're always. you're never really answering it and. then what if you did finally prove it. what are we going to do with that.

information you know we just recognize. that there are variables like when we're. talking about Polynesian people we're. talking about people from Tonga very. stout strong people Samoans tend to be. very stout strong people I mean that's a. characteristic. the positive characteristic that's. attributed to people from that area do. you ignore that like how do you address. that of course not I would say people. from Polynesia are more likely men from. Polynesia are more likely to be. offensive lineman in the NFL so your.

issue is calling it a race or so yeah. and then tributing other things to it. all I'm saying is guys from there tend. to be bigger yeah hell yeah no doubt. about it but so what that's the end of. it is there a part of the world where. people are generally thought to be dumb. yeah Africa the country that sorry the. continent we've been talking about. that's that's the history of this. country this is the history of Europe. that's the history of the modern world. is the belief that people from Africa. are dumber than whites well isn't the. problem with that Africa is also where.

the pyramids were created that's been. justified that's what justified slavery. that's what justified colonialism that's. what justifies has justified all sorts. of things right so that's the problem. here is that these these attempts to. define people by race and by the way by. gender have done nothing but terrible. things nothing but terrible things hmm. and you can't do it anyway. its scientific [ __ ] it's total. superstition is utterly arbitrary the. lines are always being redrawn by the. people who do this stuff so why are you. still doing it guys like it's where do.

you draw the goddamn line all the people. in Africa are black really Egyptians are. the same race as people from the Congo. as the people from South Africa as the. people from Somalia I mean how are they. the same race because it's pigment skin. pigment is that the only determination. well it's a fascinating thing you call. people African Americans or call them. Italian Americans because Italy isn't. actually a country whereas Africa is a. continent fantastic point it's weird to. call people continent American right.

yeah because guess what. Italy didn't even exist until the 19th. century I mean it was just a bunch of. city-states right until then and there. was no such thing as an Italian people. who lived there didn't call themselves. it wasn't a concept it wasn't a name of. nothing and then they made it into this. nation state that they called Italy and. ever since ever since then every sorry. but every [ __ ] italian-american is. like really proud that I'm Italian well. that dude that has no meaning really in. the. deepest history at a some weight meaning.

sure but they talk about it as if it's. like rooted in nature like it's by. people I love it they love being a part. of that stupid team yes Sopranos later. Sopranos its tribalism yeah it's tribal. is it is tribal and it's stupid and if. it were just stupid I wouldn't care it's. that it is as I said it just leads to. bad stuff and it has historically that. there are no races oh okay so you know. I'm mr. anti academic academic but this. is where academics have actually done.

their best work I think so and this is. the second my second disagreement with. Jordan Peterson he thinks that all the. stuff in college campuses that's crazy. is because of post-modernism and he. doesn't understand post-modernism the. what's going on in college campuses is. people making all sorts of truth claims. about things like race and gender right. I'm black therefore I will always be. this that and the other thing you're. white therefore you are this debt and. the other thing no matter what right. mm-hmm.

that is actually old modernist. scientific racist thinking that's what. these old racist geneticists eugenicist. thought back in the day it's amazing. again sjw's are actually really really. conservative and ultimately racist the. social justice warriors folks button. your listeners must know that something. I don't know the appraised assumed that. was a shorthand to use so post-modernism. this is where Jordan Peterson makes me. want to like throw chairs when he talks.

about this comes out of French. philosophy in the 1960s and 70s and 80s. Michel Foucault is the most famous. example of a French post modernist and. he they get dumped on all the time but. the central the central argument that. was made by Foucault and post modernists. was that none of these things are. biologically determined that there is no. natural essence to anything that.

everything is a social construct which. means that we now are free to choose our. own destiny. as individuals right. prior to that prior to the 1960s and 70s. it was the dominant belief that if you. were born a woman you were gonna be a. wife and a mother and if you weren't you. were doing something unnatural right if. you were black you could never be the.

head of a business or the president. right you could never do math whatever. if you were white you know you should do. all those things right. everybody's destiny was determined at. Birth and everyone believed that most. people believe that okay suppose. modernist came along and said guess what. you know we found looking at history we. found is just what I said I just gave. you the whole postmodern argument right. there we looked at history we saw first. of all that all these categories have. changed over time which tells us that.

they're just inventions they're just. inventions that get reinvented all the. time okay and second of all they have. served the purposes of ruling elites. because they get to put people in their. boxes and control them more easily right. oh those people over there those are. black therefore they should be our. slaves so it's okay for us to have them. as slaves those women over there we. don't want them you know working for. NASA so they will have a rule against. women working for NASA whatever it is. right so postmodernist said none of this.

is biological none of this is inevitable. you are now free to do what you want as. an individual it was a liberating moment. it has become the dominant way of. thinking in academia and I have to say. in my view it is the supreme achievement. of academics ever that's it that's it. but it's huge huge so if you think about. it look what how the world has changed. and particularly not in the United.

States since then right we no longer. generally have those ideas at least we. don't operate as such so black people. are allowed mostly into places they. weren't before women are allowed very. much so into places they weren't allowed. before all the whole world has changed. and I think principally from that idea. so the trip. that doesn't mean now the problem is. that. justice warriors so-called on campuses. have used some of that language and.

taking a [ __ ] on it so the trans. movement for instance right that started. from post-modernism that whole idea. right is that you know if you were born. with a penis you're a man and you should. do X Y & Z with your life right the. trans movement needed that needed. post-modernism to make that intervention. and say no that's not true right you can. actually be a woman because because. woman is an invention it's a social. construct what trans much of the trans.

movement now is doing which makes me so. sad is that they're saying that I am. biologically essentially naturally you. know in my core a woman no no one is no. one is you can't the whole point of this. movement used to be that you get to. choose your gender or choose not to be a. gender you get to move around your. destiny is not determined for you. what lot of the trans movement now is.

doing this is a good word reifying. they're making these ideas these. abstractions real again they're making. these claims that are similar to sam. Harris's claims and to old racist claims. and to old sexist claims that if you're. born in a particular way biologically. this is who you are right because you've. heard a lot of trans people say this. right I was born a woman that's that's. what they often say mm-hmm what I'm. saying is no one was born anything what. I do or losing me in a huge way why you.

don't think that women that some women. are born women and some you don't think. you're born a man no what are you born. why you a men for all sorts of reasons. for all sorts of reasons none of them. being was decided nothing none of them. being the X Y chromosome isn't being you. have testicles the only one being you. have a penis none of them being the fact. that you generally gravitate towards. male activities like boxing kickboxing. and we just have thing we just went. through this whole thing no you did you. all Romero and Andy Dick yeah but yeah.

they both men but you you you're a man. Yeah right we're not talking about the. broad spectrum of masculine behavior. we're talking about no one is born a man. you're not born a man I'm not born I'm. saying I'm saying that big No I think. we're getting silly hold on here I think. it's the category of man becomes. meaningless does it yeah we just did. this man no we did and why we didn't. Romero and Andy Dick it's a broad. category at the ends of the spectrum and. I think they cross over the male-female. lines do cross over when you get to that.

Canyon Runner and Andy Dick yeah but. that's I'm sayin it's so broad that it. becomes to me pretty damn meaningless. well the numbers are incredibly small at. those crossover marks you're talking. about a very very small percentage of. the population. neither Andy Dick nor Yul yellow Romero. are trans people right they are so. different though physically in every way. okay yeah we both put them in this silly. category called man what the hell does. that mean anymore Andy has children he. made them impregnated different women.

and got babies from a lot of people. called men who don't and can't can't. okay yeah but that's rare they way. that's pretty rare not that rare oh it's. very rare you know most most men when. they have sex with a woman and they put. sperm in their body they can one may be. so that's one characteristic but hold on. a second you're you're you're making it. as if it's a really common thing when. you're talking about like what a small. fraction of the men can't make babies an. incredibly small fraction so an.

incredibly vast majority of males with. the X Y chromosome who have penises are. capable of impregnating a female with an. X X chromosome I mean in the male was. born a male the female was born a female. right but what you mean but you are born. a man or you aren't born a female right. so there are many many characteristics. right that we assigned to the category. of man many of them okay that's one. characteristic okay so why why is that.

characteristic in the man category if in. particular that there are some men who. don't share that characteristic but. which ones don't. that's the aberration the aberration is. the one why is an aberration see these. are is they can't get a woman pregnant. they don't produce sperm you're talking. about like very very rare cases yeah the. same with for race the same thing. happens with sickle. anemia red this is what everybody. invokes when they want a claim that race. is real only black people get sickle. cell anemia well guess what the numbers.

there are about the same as the number. of men who are infertile why then are. people with sickle cell anemia. definitely black why is that definitely. a black thing same thing. it's you know again why are we drew all. these characteristics why do we draw. this line called man around all those. different people well why do we do it. with animals when you have a male dog. and a female dog isn't there a male dog. and a female dog eventually there's a. male dog and a few say it's inventions. now hold on so before you get but it's. not mention yeah no it is of course it's.

not an invention one of them has a penis. and testicles it's a man thing we see we. call it a penis sure I get it no I get. it and that's the world I live in. absolutely so I operate in this way by. the way so you and I would agree on all. the things in the world that are dogs. right and all okay I'm not gonna walk. around be like I know chitara dogs so. with humans you're making a distinction. that there are certain feelings and the. way you interface with the world that. may be more or less masculine or. feminine but it does apply in dogs my.

point here which is that we did draw a. line right in those there's this do all. dogs look alike oh my god there's a huge. variation there that's talking about. race though we're talking about gender. right either way it doesn't matter it's. just a Dobermans uh-huh male Dobermans. and female Dobermans right you can't. like if you were to buy a male Doberman. and the guy gives you a female dog man. he goes up but she identifies it being a. male this it's it's just an invention. man this is a male but she's a male you. can't disrespect for by saying she's not. a male but you would say that guys crazy. and you want your money back. are there any two females who were.

identical to female what anything I mean. if you have a really good breeder you. can get pretty goddamn close if you're. talking about dog no no there's no there. are no two individuals that are. identical certainly I'm not singing it. down to the hair technicality but so you. still categorize them as X Y X. chromosome and I'm not saying we. shouldn't categorize anything ever. because we must do that to live in this. world what are you saying what I am. saying is we should probably stop.

applying certain categories to human. beings in the. ways we have done look how so because. there are so nail and male and female. because there's certain inventions. certain social constructs that do. nothing but bad things that do no good. and they're only social constructs like. race and gender well tell me how race. and gendered I'm not worried about. specially gender definition let's look. at gender definition and tell me how. it's only bad why is it only do bad fine. man is man right in his women because if.

you say it's it's it's about making the. biological claim the right the. biological connection there well making. a definition which is saying a guy who. is born a guy who gravitates towards. male activities likes females all those. things by saying that that's a man that. this is a born man and you're saying no. no one is so if you're saying if those. characteristics are naturally determined. then all all of us guys who don't do. those things are unnatural which things. are those all the things women whatever.

it is that you characterize as being. male right that's so common with males. mmm what is being attracted to women. really aging have you heard of gay. people is it I mean it's certainly a lot. of people isn't it well it's a lot of. people when you think about the 350. million people we have living in America. sure take all the men let's do this take.

all the men who are straight-up. homosexual always happen but you can. classify them as gay men I know hold on. so just take that whatever that is okay. if it's one or two or five or 10%. whatever it is I only been homosexual. hundred percent never been attracted to. a woman period okay okay fine that's. still a really significant significant. number I'm not done hang on. then take the men who don't identify as. homosexual have had sex with women have. been attracted to women but have [ __ ]. men hmm prisoners pretty damn big number. they're pretty damn oh wait a minute how. many guys do you think that are.

attracted to women but still [ __ ] men so. Kinsey the Kinsey study sure in the. nineteen forties and fifties mmm-hmm. found that it was I think thirty percent. what yes 30% of men [ __ ] men reached. orgasm in a sexual experience with. another man yes thirty percent yes. yes there's a very large number and she. was hanging out with freaks yep that's. what I think there were different. numbers for women and men but they were. both very significant percentages very. not majorities but very significant.

percentages well-known I've personally. known many men who you would consider. straight who identify as straight who. have done something with men either. giving him a [ __ ] gotten a [ __ ]. had full onset jerked each other off. news to you well it's news in that where. even if they did do that you're talking. about individual sexual acts between. people who are male or female right. you're still talking about a man so talk. about a man that's having sex with other. men you're defining it such in that way.

you're literally saying no a guy you are. no you are saying you know guys who. sucked other guys dicks a guy burns done. it to a guy you're saying a man do it to. a man gotcha. I got you I got you no I'm saying that. people who are identified as men that's. what I meant people who are identified. as men by society have done these things. that society was to be unnatural for men. but when they were doing that weren't. they a man doing it to a man and look. what happened to those guys historically.

not so much recently but certain be. still today well it's certainly we can't. keep going back to 100 plus years let's. talk about like right now I'm still. talking about a man who's having a. sexual exchange with another man like. you can be sexually attracted to another. man it doesn't mean that you're both not. men so do you think homosexual men are. men sure why because they're male they. have a penis. they have X Y chromosomes they can get a. woman pregnant if they wanted to okay. they can donate their sperm to their. lesbian pals and they've just eliminated. one of the characteristics that you.

previously previously said was male no. no no most men most are attracted to. women but a good percentage of them are. gay this is not like complicated stuff. there's still men yeah I mean I don't. know where to go from here I mean I. think I've I think I've made the. argument I it's it's funny because you I. thought you were totally with me for. like an hour and a half and now it's. like I feel like you're not there I.

I think there's a giant spectrum of. people but to say that a guy isn't born. a man or a woman isn't born a woman I. think is disingenuous uh-huh yeah so. it's it's where the so okay Thailand. Thailand I think in India and I think. there's several Polynesian countries. there's several countries where there is. a legal and cultural and social category. that is neither man nor woman nor male.

nor female like in Thailand the lady. boys right. and there's other countries do have this. you can look it up it see it sure right. okay you know about this miss sure okay. what about that what about those there's. Dibble - what do you Poe I think there's. that - so oh okay I'm saying people can. be born a man but if you people can be. born a woman or you can get these Andy. Dick you owe Romero weird variation. let's Joe Joe take the lady boys from. Thailand okay and move them here to this. country now how will they be considered.

what do you mean how will they be. concerns don't have those categories. okay we have only two there's a lot of. variables in Thailand also that you're. dealing with like really young sex. workers there's a lot of weird [ __ ] that. goes on in Thailand a lot of abuse so is. the [ __ ] category real or not it's. certainly real as a trans category there. they consider that real and here we do. not but if a trans categories real and I. think you agree it's real and I agree.

it's real hmm right trans people that. mean there's absolutely people that feel. like they're born in the wrong gender. sure yeah yeah so why isn't a man real. why is it a woman oh they're real - if. you want to say they're all equally real. I'm down yes I'm there we're good that's. what I'm saying right it's just that. those that those categories have no. absolute you know biological meaning. there's not a meaning that they're fluid. they're you know basically arbitrary. sorry I mean they're that we invent them. I'm not saying it's useless I'm not. saying we should never have any. categories I'm just saying that those.

categories have changed and they change. it but you kind of depends why. disagreeing with you you kind of did say. that a man is important to man and then. a woman isn't born with and for sure a. lot of them are for sure a lot of people. that have. your stereotypical classic female. characteristics were born female and for. sure there's a lot of men who have. classic stereotypical male behavior and. patterns and desires they're born men. yes and there's trans people and then. there's also there's asexual people that.

also needs to be considered there's. people that just don't have any desire. to [ __ ] anybody okay they don't want to. they don't want to be a man or a woman. they can call themselves queer they can. call themselves whatever they want they. don't want to be a female they don't. want to be a male they just want to be. human here's the deal how about let's. make a deal if you if that's what you. have to say about it and you want to not. get in the way of people doing those. things and making those decisions for. themselves and let them do what they. want to do I am totally with you that's. true for sure I don't want to get away. of anybody making I don't want to get in.

the way of furries that's awesome if you. really identify with being a giant. squirrel that's awesome. that's great and that's really that what. matters I'm just saying that claims and. I want to end it here claims about these. essential characteristics that it's. biologically determined right you know. are the things that reinforce getting in. the way laws policies cultures ideas. norms that get in the way of people. doing what they want to do with their. own lives hmm right because yeah for.

sure with some people will do variables. are so extreme and the spectrum is so. broad so after I was on your show the. first time got a whole bunch of comments. from people calling me a [ __ ] and a [ __ ]. and a [ __ ] and this and that you can. read those why feminizing me and it's. not your fault for calling me a girl I. can't read those I know I know it's. whatever no I mean people that came to. Twitter and whatever yeah you don't read. those I know I stopped I learned oh yeah. stop I don't know anymore didn't matter. I didn't care this didn't bother me at.

all I just thought it was interesting. actually oh great so in other words and. a lot of them what they were really. saying and they some of them elaborated. on this was that I was you know not. really man enough right I was less of a. man for whatever reason I don't know I. don't care it's fine I liked it it's. funny but it really proves my point is. that you know these things are very. fluid so they kind of were kicking me. out of the category of man and I was. like cool please I think they were Jesus. salt and try to get a. I don't think you can make a rational. argument dealing with internet trolls no.

of course not I'm saying it's just one. example of what goes on generally which. is that we do this all the time right. yeah but they're not even human like. when someone's interacting with you like. that it's lacking all of the. characteristics of human interaction. you're not there with a person you're. not looking at them if someone's in. front of you like that oh you're a [ __ ]. you look you'd be like oh my god I'm in. danger there's a crazy person I mean I'd. have to defend myself against this. person because if someone is treating me. that way insulting me looking me in the. eye we were so close to violence like. anything can happen here this is a.

person it's not rational it is amazing. isn't it it's crazy he's just talking. about my son as we were driving over. here cuz you know he reads he he read. all the comments when I was on your. shows he was like it was so funny like. Toby don't read that [ __ ] man it's just. you just think it's funny but it is. remarkable how many people do that right. yeah it's not just that they have these. thoughts about you it's that they go out. of their way to write it in public to do. something what are you feeling yes we. actually sit down that's what boggles my. mind is that someone will actually take.

the time and energy to like sit there. and write this thing on YouTube or. whatever you know about you know this or. that about me it's it's phenomenal well. sometimes people have good points I mean. sometimes they're not even when they're. insulting you sometimes they're making. points while they're insulting you it's. just hard to separate the wheat from the. chaff yeah it's it's a weird way of. interacting with people that didn't. exist I mean there was never a time in. our past where you could with real time. during real don't you instantaneously. send something to someone they read it.

right away and they could be rude and. all they out are is a Twitter egg with a. bunch of numbers and letters and they. call you a homo and it's the real. downside of the Internet. which otherwise is a miraculous boon to. humanity I feel like it's an adolescent. stage I feel like we are finding our way. through this inescapable new technology. is this connection that we're sharing. which is just well it's one of the. reasons why I think it's important to. have one-on-one conversations with. people and one of the things that I've.

noticed from doing this podcast is how. how many interesting people there are. they're out there in the world like. yourself that I can talk to you but also. how. bad most people are in the world we're. just talking to each other we don't ever. have long conversations everybody's. checking their [ __ ] phone yeah. everybody's watching a television yeah. it's a worry about that because I'm very. Pro technology and all this stuff but. that doesn't worry me I want to go into. a restaurant I see people sitting at the. same table all looking at their phones. oh yeah like 70 pressing it's like a.

group of SATs and I have wondered about. the quality of conversation generally. because just what you're saying yeah. I've been wondering and I'm thinking it. might actually be declining the quality. of our conversations I definitely think. it is I find myself continually. disappointed with very smart people that. I meet that don't have real. conversations they talk over people they. don't they're not listening they're not. responding to what you're saying they're. waiting for you to stop talking so they.

can talk right and it's like it's like. this self-centered sort of way of. interacting with each other that seems. more prevalent than not yeah I'm used to. that because I'm around academics a lot. because they're used to lecturing and. they're the smartest person in the room. and so all their job is to do is to tell. us what's true right so they're they're. very comfortable with that I was always. amazed when I'd watch these are really. important famous professors at Columbia. you know give these lectures to a Hall. of 500 people and it seemed to me they. didn't even know that there were other. people in the room.

the way they were talking like it didn't. matter what the reactions were whether. people were asleep whether they're. reading the newspaper they just didn't. care they just kept going kept writing. talked and talked for two hours straight. ahead you know I just I can't do that. I'm the exact opposite I panic if I feel. like the person I'm talking to isn't. listening to me that's good I panic yeah. and so when I see if I'm lecturing to. 200 students I see one kid kind of just. get a little distracted I freaked and I. feel like I have to up my game right. then I have to go directly address them. that means you care yeah I mean whatever.

it is I care in a particular way I mean. it's some it's another form of. narcissism I suppose but I I really I do. think I what makes me a good teacher. because I I have to have interaction. well you want to connect yeah you need. to know what you're hearing right right. I need to know what you're hearing from. me that's the thing and then we can. really talk and then I also am really. curious I'm just a curious person and I. want to know what year. and let's do this you know let's and. then let's have that that chemistry that. happened just now which got hot you know. but like that's that's where life is. mm-hmm that's where real personal.

relationships are yeah. comics kind of do the same thing too. because they're used to being the one. who's talking onstage or if they do a. podcast they're used to being the one. who's talking all the time but the ones. who do crowd work right amazing if you. think about it you know the ones who. interact have a whole part of their act. where it's a crowd work yeah most comics. I mean don't they have some interact. yeah definitely interaction with the. crowd and happens a lot I mean you're. dealing with people drinking alcohol in. a social environment it's dark out and. it's nighttime and they're having fun. and they're laughing and and especially.

we're talking about controversial. opinions in subjects people always know. all the comics talk about you know you. feel the room you feel that is. interaction I'm saying I'm talking about. these professors in their tweed jackets. at Columbia I swear to god it didn't. matter what happened what was happening. in that yeah there's a certain amount of. arrogance and I'm sure you must get. after being a professor it's a. particular nozzle it hourly in their. heads right they're just sitting there. study and read books then they go out. and then and then give a lecture and.

then they come back and read this read. the book and you know mmm that's so. weird narcissism I can't do they. interact with other professors and go. over their work together you know I am. stereotyping and generalizing this is. not everybody but I did see this a lot. and I still do yeah there's some. interactions but again it's mostly. through you know you write a paper and. then you send it out to the journal and. then some other professor reviews it. mm-hm anonymously often and sends it. back it's it's all very weird. passive-aggressive [ __ ] to like that's. the other thing about academia I can't. stand is that they they are allergic to. direct conflict like the argument you.

and I just had mm-hmm that's pretty much. not allowed except through writing I'll. do it through writing mmm-hmm but they. won't do it head-to-head that's a real. problem because it takes too long to. work out an idea that way yeah like real. debate you see when I went to college I. had this idea that it would be the. really smart people like professors but. more than one would be in a room and. they would have you know one major issue. and they would debate it that there. would be argument right there would be a.

conflict of ideas about an idea. No. it's not that it's never that I have. been in and around college campuses for. 32 years I have never really seen a. head-to-head debate like you and I just. had that's insane. person-to-person I mean here in there a. little bit but not like that not where. we were really really going at it I. don't think I've ever seen that I mean. that and I mean among faculty some.

students do but faculty don't they're. scared of it I'm telling you there's a. problem with cowardice and one of the. real tragedies with that is that as I. said there's no real conflict of ideas. which is reinforced by the tenure system. the accreditation system it's it's this. monolith where there's one and this is. why you get this uniformity view a. uniformity of ideas on campuses it's all. this monolith it actually has its head. at the federal government do you know. about the accreditation system it would.

but it's the Mafia people don't even. know this to get accredited as a college. or university in this country you have. to be accredited by an agency that is. that is authorized by the Department of. Education in Washington DC the Secretary. of Education has to authorize your. existence as a legitimate legal college. or university that's it so renegade. University people were asking me they.

wanted me they wanted some people want a. college credit and I was like how let me. look into this and so I did and I. quickly found out that it's the [ __ ]. Mafia that I couldn't get accredited. because they have all these male all. these standards you have to have a. particular number of buildings a. particular number of professors you have. to have a library with a particular. number of books in it you have to have a. gym you have to drop all these things. and if you don't have those things. you're not in you don't get that you. don't get college credit no limits so.

what if you did give credits for taking. one of my courses right no other college. and university would recognize it if you. wanted to transfer like you want to go. to graduate school or go somewhere else. do you know employers would look at it. and see that it's not an accredited. university where you got those credits. from so how do those degree Mills. they do it right so there's two. different systems at the Department of. Education controls one is for the. so-called elite prestigious schools. those are regional accreditation. agencies again all authorized by the.

Department of Education and the. for-profit colleges there's a separate. accreditation system called the national. accreditation system and that's also. controlled by the Department of. Education but everybody knows within it. that if you get if you get accredited by. one of the national accreditation. systems you're a [ __ ] for-profit. degree mill so those credits you can't. transfer them to Harvard or Occidental. or any other of the elite so-called. elite schools hmm so they're completely. kept separate but can you like if you.

get a degree from like Phoenix. University can't you could get five. thousand degrees from Phoenix University. my degree is I can't take anywhere and. I'm talking about even even community. colleges won't accept those credits. uh-huh yeah that's interesting. it's the Mafia so think about that right. the Department of Education one person. federal government decides who is in. who's out and then inside that system. there's tenure lifetime appointment.

those people control the curriculum what. is taught they also control who's hired. and fired faculty control all the hiring. and firing of faculty and tenure they. ultimately control that basically right. and they're there forever. like Don's in the modern era seriously. so you wonder why when you walk into any. college classroom in this country you. hear basically the same [ __ ] being said. in sociology classes and history classes. that's why it's astonishing and I didn't.

even know the full extent of it until I. started renegade University and people. started asking me about this what if you. were if someone allowed you to come. along with all of trumps at Thaddeus I. love your work what could you do to fix. that what would you offer as an. alternative we have to change it no. there's nothing I can do. I mean meaning if you wanted credit like. college credit right now there's really. nothing I can do I can certainly give. them a certificate and maybe an employer. will you know think it's meaningful.

because my name is on it is it lesson. less valuable to have a degree today I'm. saying I'm just completely outside this. is all right yeah yeah but like if you. if you admired me and my work right and. you saw and I had and he had a. certificate saying this guy's great and. he took my course he was an employer it. would actually help sure and then in. that case it would be meaningful my. credits I'm just saying that's. completely outside it means nothing. inside the system of the thousands and. thousands of colleges and universities. and for most employers right most.

employers abide by this they think that. if you're not accredited you're [ __ ]. right so we have to change it and Betsy. DeVos for whatever her problems are. seems to be the first secretary of. education maybe we've ever had who could. be willing to challenge this really yeah. cuz she's about deregulation and. privatization and all this stuff and. choice school choice and we need a.

movement right now before she's gone to. get her to abolish the national. accreditation system oh it's with a. stroke of a pen I think and maybe a. congressional Act probably takes a. congressional act to but she herself I. think could Disick read it yeah I'm. pretty sure she could discredit all. those agencies right now so you think. there's just this inherent bottleneck. that it's existed for so long and that. these people have been in charge of. saying what is true and what's not true. what should be a monopoly. it's a monopoly ultimately controlled by.

the federal government and that it's. also not universally agreed that they're. correct correct in what way correct and. what they're they're teaching and say. it's not like like there's an absolute. standard for what needs to be taught if. someone wants to do know there are I. mean there are absolute standards that's. what I'm saying like you have to have. this that and the other thing on your. college campus to be accredited now that. someone I mean I mean in terms of like. what is what constitutes a master's. degree in literature right like is there. an absolute standard mmm yeah for the.

yes the well they're pretty absolute I. mean the accreditation agencies mostly. agree on those things right so why. couldn't you just reproduce that in an. environment where it's you're being. taught by someone who obviously has a. mastery of that particular subject. that's what Jo right that's what I'm. doing yeah. what we're doing well that's what's. happening he's not just me right I'm you. know one of the pioneers but it's. happening how many other people were. doing what you're doing handful I mean. but it's becoming a new Jordan Peterson. is actually looking in so when I heard. him talking about that on your show I. said go for it man.

yeah well he grant what he said he was. and there's no criticism at all I didn't. know this either until recently he had. this idea what was it about. accreditation he thought it was possible. somehow to get accredited but it's not. you can't we have to start an entirely. separate Canada possibly that could be. that's possible but anyway regardless I. am all for him doing that I hope he does. I was recently denied a grant for the. first time a career I'm sure they're not. playing around playing around they.

cancel on this is their castle they're. not gonna let us the naves in well. what's interesting is because of social. media and because of coming on podcast. like mine and his YouTube presence he's. actually got a large movement of people. that are interested in his ideas he had. a disastrous [ __ ] conversation with. Sam Harris I don't know if I heard it I. did what and the [ __ ] was that all about. well he's holding on to God well the. first one wasn't evil dad it was about. truth that was God though it was yeah. cuz because Jordan had he's religious.

and he believes well he's religious so. he wants to hold on to this idea about. what is truth being valuable for. humankind versus what is truth like one. plus one equals two. yeah right moral yes world truth versus. I was kind of on either side in that one. it was so they're both there's too many. words it was like like you guys got a. [ __ ] edit this down stuff well Jordan. had to boil it down and they did a way. better podcast the second time did you. hear the second one I know much much.

better yeah much more concise much. clearer but that again is I think there. was this certain amount of heel digging. on both sides they dug their heels in. they stood their ground this one really. preposterous issue which is like you. know you're listening to this like Jesus. [ __ ] Christ guys you're just talking. about truth for an hour and a half like. what is truth here's what's true. fire burns paper that's [ __ ] true. okay like take a piece of paper write it. on fire so stop goddamn it you're gonna. make me go again I don't want to have. this conversation now it's real.

important but let's leave it there yeah. as well and so I did agree with them Sam. and Jordan that it is really important I. just disagree with them about what. what's going on but anyway the. definition of the word true but you know. what should be they should have had more. leeway on both sides with that yeah. anyway so either way here's the thing he. said fascinating guy totally I have. major disagreements with Sam Jordan but. there's still heroic and I am totally. with them because they are doing this I. mean Sam's not doing it formally but. he's essentially part of this movement.

yeah you're part of this movement. you know what the Donald you know what. the election was about it was about a. civil war in this country that's been. going on for a long time that finally. came to a head in November which is a. war between the people who went to. college and the elite colleges in. particular and who are of that culture. that's created in those colleges and. those who are not of that culture that's. what though that's what that election. was about I think there is this this ISM. between those two groups in this country. and that finally the people who are not. of the elite college culture won.

something and it caused the elites to. freak completely out so if you look at. like I was looking at the top podcast. cuz you know I just started a podcast. and it it did get ranked and so I'm. excited but I'm looking at it a lot and. like you can really see it clearly just. look at the top 200 podcast right now. it's like 60 to 70 percent or like NPR. cookie-cutter same [ __ ] coastal elite. liberal bland you know you know what it. is. mmm-hmm tone of voice what they say who.

their guests are all the same you know. exactly what it is right is dominated by. that but then there's you in there. you're not that there's sam harris who's. sort of that but not really you know. there's Dan Carlin there's another one. right he's part of this movement he. doesn't have a school but he's teaching. people history oh [ __ ] yeah he's. teaching people history a lot of people. history more people than any historic. Harvard - professor Morgan would argue. more than any historian or ever way more. he gets millions of downloads when. history lecture is anybody yeah in the.

numbers like millions producing does he. is he a serious historian I've listened. to him I'm a professionally trained. historian Ivy League PhD hell yeah he is. you know I don't agree with everything. but doesn't matter he's doing serious. academic professional important history. and he is changing the landscape I agree. okay he's on there so there's some of us. were either some of us were making we're. making it happen but you can just see. it's such a divide like there's just.

such a divide between like who's on your. podcast and who's on the NPR podcasts is. hardly any crossover yeah but that's. just my choice. interesting I could no I knows people. there's a lot of people that I get that. are on NPR podcast that's my point is. that there's sort of two different. cultures that's happening right now. there's just that culture like and this. is kind of a problem my girlfriend and I. have because she's of that culture most. of the people I know are NPR types you. know that's what they want to hear it's. comforting and soothing whatever makes. them feel good I don't know but they're.

really that's who they are fundamentally. it's like their identity mm-hmm and then. you know when they hear your podcast or. my podcast or anyone's it's it's like. it's like punk rock to a 80 year old. it's just hard just different culture. it's like a different language different. way of behaving different ideas or a. question different questions are asked. and there's there's this resentment to. because the elites the NPR types I. believe have basically looked not.

basically they have looked down their. noses at those who didn't go to college. who don't speak the way we speak who. don't talk about these ideas. who'd aren't aware of these ideas right. working-class people like people in. Salem I know right people who oh you. know Meryl Streep said it best. write about MMA mm-hmm right st. that's. that was it right there. they clearly see all those people. outside this elite bicoastal culture as. doing bad stuff inferior stuff and they.

shouldn't be allowed to run things well. what she said was so inherently. ridiculous and also ignorant because she. was also claiming that if you take out. the immigrants you're left with Mme Mme. is 80% immigrants sure. like literally well when she said was it. was stupid ignorant and more importantly. I think classist in that way right it's. like yeah you're not smart enough but. you're not good enough she's so wrong. like there's a lot of. Americans that engage in MMA for sure. but there's so many great fighters that.

are immigrants I mean a massive massive. amount it's not small mountain so she. was saying take out all the immigrants. you left with MMA that is so dumb yeah. you know what those people do with the. the immigrants who do things like MMA. they ignore them they pretend is it they. pretend they don't exist it doesn't fit. the narrow no they want is the immigrant. who also very much exists they want the. undocumented mom with the kid who got. stopped at the border and sent back who. riot breaks my heart - yeah my -.

absolutely but they want them only to be. what victims what's the solution to that. that they can say what is the solution. to illegal immigration in this country. do you just let everybody in I'm an open. borders guy yeah open borders just let. people you know want some speaking of. inventions and social constructs that. have done great harm to humanity borders. orders yeah I agree that eventually. that's going to be a thing of the past I. think it'll be looked back when we look. back at history. it'll be thought of as one of the most. barbaric ideas right. can you imagine it's it's barbaric in.

the way that like it used to be that you. had a tribe then you invaded another. tribe or they invaded you and you had a. Mike put up a fence and guard your. border and then these things became like. larger communities those communities. became cities became countries became. and then you know go back a few thousand. years you're dealing with these. countries invading other countries and. so you have these these immigration. policies especially now where we have. border control patrols and this idea. that you have to have your paperwork you. have to have passports and numbers and.

otherwise you you were born in the wrong. patch of dirt sir if you were just born. 30 miles north you could have been in in. Texas but you're in Juarez you [ __ ] so. you stay over here it's it's silly. speaking of social constructions and. social constructions that have changed. over time right damn telling a Mexican. they can't come here. are you crazy like this was Mexico five. minutes ago you [ __ ] who the [ __ ]. are you it's astonishing the arrogance. of Americans who think that Mexicans. have no place here I mean there weren't.

no white people here a long time well. not only that I mean you just got lucky. you're you were born into this like. economically. you know promising area where you know. you got a better opportunities sure and. you're looking at these people that are. born in a [ __ ] spot and you're like well. you're in that [ __ ] spot forever you. can't come over here and take my good. spot it also works against us right. because then it becomes harder for us to. travel elsewhere yes then they have. borders right they don't like Americans. because of what we do to them when I go. to merit Mexico you know I just like I.

love it there and I keep thinking man. it's amazing that you're treating me. this well because Mexicans are so kind. generally you know when you're down. there and thank God you should hate. Americans what we've done to them in. terms of the border immigration and the. drug war I mean yeah the deaths the. poverty that we've inflicted on them. through these laws or shitty policy my. god I mean they have every reason to. hate our guts and they don't yeah well. no Mexicans overall are very kind people. my parents live in Mexico really yeah.

yeah I love it. Mexico all the time incredible place I. try to go I've some my favorite places. go on vacation for sure and I know a lot. of people I have a lot of friends here. they're scared they're scared of mixture. they think Mexico is all gang violence. and all that I'm like well read about. Chicago you're not scared to go to. Chicago Chicago is [ __ ] murders every. day that's a good point I want Trump. Chicago Mexico violence you know what he. was saying about these illegal. immigrants being violent and criminals.

and stuff he wasn't wrong entirely. here's what here's what people are. ignoring that it's true that the cartels. have moved into the Midwest you know. about this in particular Chicago El. Chapo and others - they have moved into. the Midwest there in Kentucky do a. Google search for like Mexican cartel. and pick like a town in Kentucky in Ohio. Indiana they're all over the Midwest and. they're competing they're kicking out. the old gangs and that's why there's all. this violence on the streets a lot of. those black kids in Chicago who are.

shooting each other are working for one. of those cartels basically so Trump was. right about that but he's totally wrong. about the answer to it and what liberals. do in response to it is even worse which. is pretend it's not happening ya know. people are killing each other but why. why because drugs are illegal yes. because drugs are illegal and we want. them to be illegal we. vote for those laws well I met a guy in. Chicago who was a cop and he explained. it to me in great detail and he said. essentially what happened is they moved.

in and they arrested a lot of these drug. lords these local people that were in. charge of whatever areas and they were. running whatever criminal organization. they arrest them and they created a. power vacuum yep and the way he was. saying he's like it's no different than. when we remove a dictator in some. foreign country that people move in and. then it creates violence you get Isis. exactly exactly yeah so but you don't. hear people talking about this right. it's incredible that's what's going on. yes the cartels are here yes cause drugs. really Trump is too goddamn dumb to make.

the full point and he's also beholden to. these [ __ ] Republicans like Jeff. Sessions who thinks that I think that. marijuana is dangerous he wants to bring. back too so he's not saying the prot. he's not he has no idea or at least he's. not saying what the actual cause is. right and liberals are sort of abetting. him by ignoring it but someone oh there. is no violence it's like no [ __ ]. there is tremendous violence and the. cause is your laws against drugs right. right so the answer is really simple. it's in glass drugs yeah yeah so but.

because because our government is just a. fight between this [ __ ] Trump and these. morons the Democrats who refused to. address this stuff there's no discussion. about it but if you do legalize drugs. like how do you do that like say if the. United States just decided we're gonna. decriminalize all drugs and then not. that's not good enough because someone's. gonna sell them right you can't just. decriminalize them but that just keeps. people from getting arrested which is a. great step a good a good move in the. right direction there's some insane.

number of people in America that are in. prison right now for nonviolent drug. offenses yeah it's an it's a nutty. number that's a side note but a really. important one there is now a debate. among academics who study this stuff and. a lot of academics who are actually more. or less on the right side of this are. arguing that the drug war and and making. drugs illegal is not the major cause of. mass incarceration because the number. the percentage of people it is big but. it's something like 10 percent who are. nonviolent drug offenders who are who.

are prosecuted and convicted of just. drug offenses that is a relatively small. number. but what they're not taking into account. is all of the other crimes that stem. from drugs being Italy right so murders. violence take all the homicides in this. country right I want to see a number but. I'm sure it's really high of how many. were committed by a gang member. okay and how many of the gangs in the. United States basically started by. selling drugs right right okay there's.

that homicides assault gangs drugs there. is larceny theft people who are hooked. on drugs who are broke in large part. because drug prices are so high why are. they so high because they're illegal. right right they have to get them on the. black market always raises prices so. they're forced to steal because they're. poor people right so a huge percentage. and they don't track this because the. convictions are you know if it's if it's. a junkie who steals from somebody to.

score they don't count that as a drug. crime they count it as just larceny so. we don't know but I am sure and this is. what social scientists need to do right. now is start to make that do that work. and find out exactly how many people are. in prison for some reason related to the. fact that drugs are illegal and I'll. betcha it's a huge number yeah I bet. you're right it's also like these gangs. if they don't sell drugs they have no. other method of income yes they're just. knocking over trucks filled with.

equipment and then reselling it like. what do they do they have no income they. have no power exactly right yeah so I. mean the Mafia in the 1920s was enormous. ly powerful right hugely powerful why. because the this prohibition exactly so. that's you take away I said I've said. this to people like what was the great. Netflix series was about him the huge. drug there were you know each other oh. yeah narcos yep was name yeah Pascal bar. that's good Escobar yeah so Escobar so. take up make drugs you make if drugs.

were legal how many people did Escobar. kill none or two or one or something. right I mean he killed thousands of. people right right but if they're legal. here's the deal like who's profiting off. of those right that's where it gets. really slippery if you make drugs legal. and then there's got to be like right. now. the people that are selling them are. criminals right they're not if you make. it legal they're gonna still sell them. like they're just gonna sell them. legally like like how do you make this. transition between drugs being legal and.

then people being able to sell them like. how does that work like how do you do. that in an orderly way how do you. preserve sanity and humanity and. civilization. what do you mean 1933 they ended. prohibition yeah but alcohol was. something did though what's they. regulated it heavily which made which. created new problems right and it caused. the state to be all up in our business. in all sorts of ways so like you had to. get licensed to sell alcohol right that.

meant was an inspector from the state. came to your bar or your restaurant or. whatever and looked around and asked you. questions and checked on who you were. hiring who worked there who your. customers were what kinds of customers. and if you didn't fit all the rules of. you know polite society right or and. this was true greatest stories have been. done about this if you had the. homosexuals coming into your bar Oh. drunk homo you don't want that or the. prostitutes or the prostitutes coming. into your bar or even women who were a. little bit loose with their morality you.

get a license really yes women could. stop you from getting a bar license. absolutely boy no Tanya so yeah yes just. decriminalize we will be fine but if you. just decriminalize who's selling it. right it's still gonna be illegal to. sell no right decriminalization doesn't. mean legalization terms of like. profitability right Mexico do you know. that all drugs essentially are. decriminalized in Mexico including. mushrooms acid these yes so the debt. those definitions change according to.

the industry which is a pain in the ass. but so sometimes de criminal AWS at all. right right not none legalization. usually means not always but usually. means regulations like what happened. right yeah so like with weed week um we. got legalized and it's heavily regulated. and cetera but it also butts on that. heavily regulated in Colorado it's. pretty easy to get I know it while the. regulation comes in the banking the. banking is weird because the federal. government still has it classified as a. schedule 1 substance and it's illegal so.

there's a huge. isn't it to people having except cash. only so they hired a bunch of seals and. mercs and all these [ __ ] guys I'm. like you know that no it would have. probably worked for like you know. mercenary organizations now they're. [ __ ] carrying around drug money and. from people selling pot and then they. have to take it to the bank it put it in. safe deposit boxes and deposit into. these accounts and right weird ways it's. very [ __ ] it's it's really. problematic and that keeps a lot of. people out of the market because it.

hires soldiers you know stop the. peaceful and Employment Program it's. great that's what we need more hired. killers isn't it true that they give. them jobs you don't want to not having. jobs that's true once you teach people. how to kill people's be nice to them I. certainly would rather them do that than. killing Iraqis yeah I thought they also. disallowed people with prior felonies. from participating in the industry is. that true Colorado which I've seen this. and that meant it's all white I do not. know that all the all the well there's a.

lot of black produced felonies you. racist bastard how dare you that was. that was a complete lie company host. item I just know right yeah and you call. it racist. Wow I don't know what to do now more. salon it's kind of a salon calm yeah man. um alright man we did just did three. hours ham no way flew by unbelievable. yeah time flies me having fun yeah um. tell everybody what your podcast is yeah. tell everybody where they can get it. cool yeah I got a few things going on. but yeah the unregistered with Thaddius.

rustle the podcast it's at Thaddeus. Russell comm there's a page for the. tunes top 50 news and politics right and. then I got renegade University I got an. event coming up in Massachusetts in. August Joe's old stomping grounds Salem. Massachusetts August 4 through 6 what. are you doing out there it's a we signed. burning witches whole weekend whole. weekend seminar I'm talking about. history and theory and politics and okay. full weekend and I've already sold out. the VIPs but there's more the general.

admission is still on sale and then I'm. doing that with a great group which I. meant to mention. school sucks project who is actually one. of the very first pioneers of this whole. movement I was talking about. just overthrow the whole educational. system and replace it with actual. thought and ideas and debate who's. running this his name's Brett the not. great guy's been doing just running a. podcast he's just a guy who's a teacher. in New Hampshire. uh-huh and he just he was too smart for. that system and got sick of it and he. left and said I'm just gonna do a. podcast yet no platform you know not a. celebrity at all and he it grew and grew. and grew and he's got this huge.

following and Brett is amazing and he's. got a big following and he's having me. on the show a lot so he and I are. co-producing renegade University and. school sucks project our co-producing. presenting this weekend in Salem in. August 4th through the 6th so you can go. to school sucks project website or. Thaddeus Russell comm website to get all. the details and buy the tickets there. and then I have a seminar actually in LA. just with me just 20 people for four. weeks talking about renegade history the.

United States four weeks four nights Oh. over over four weeks. oh it's 404 okay Thursday night for four. weeks that's it right here in LA west. side renegade history the United States. we've just with me in 20 people and. that's on my web and that starts next. Thursday. excellent and then yeah my website's got. a bunch of stuff but that's that's it. I'm busy man I'm real busy. but but it sounds awesome thank you so. much all right stop getting hit in the. head okay I'll try don't don't be. sparring with people smarter next all. right beautiful thank you.

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