Joe Rogan Experience #951 - Dan Doty

changed my life 5 4 3 2. 1 yes Dan doie yes we're live what's up. brother how are you man good to see you. good to see you too man so uh for people. who don't know uh I met Dan way back in. 2012 doesn't that seems like a long time. ago now doesn't it it seems like uh at. least half of my life which is not even. close to why is that true I mean why. does it like five years it was 5 years. ago four and a half years ago well that. was back when it was October of 2012 I.

thought there was only two months left. in the world cuz I thought the mine. calendar was correct and it was December. 21st 2012 was going to end the world. okay and so yeah so you [ __ ] off and. went to Montana to uh go on a boat ride. with us yeah we took uh we took a canoe. down the Missouri river that was [ __ ]. awesome man wasn't that wild it's one of. my favorite trips ever cold really cold. like not fun cold it was the kind of. cold de it sucked but once you got. moving it was fun.

you know and I I learned about Marino. wool that was important that was an. important lesson like the first light. Marino wool like that for people don't. know if you're ever in a cold area it's. so important that you have a base layer. of Marino wool cuz that [ __ ] gets wet. and you stay warm even if you sweat in. it you stay warm it's it doesn't stink. half as much as as the synthetic. versions yeah at all it's weird like. some people really like synthetics in. some weird way like have you used them. or did you get you have I have I smell. terrible see I actually don't care I I.

like them both but I just you know. working with those guys for so long in. first light I got used to it I like it I. like it but I used synthetics for 10. years before that and I mean I didn't. smell good but I didn't really care a. lot of mountaineering people like some. synthetics because they dry quicker but. I I feel like the one of the best. benefits of the wool is that when it is. wet it still retains your warmth and I. don't mind being a little moist well the. synthetics will keep you warm too when. they're wet just it's slightly different.

like cotton will not right cotton will. not but a synthetic like uh cine that. patagon uses or other things they also. will they won't they won't kill you um. but yeah um the the Marino has some. other better qualities yeah it's just. well the stink thing is huge cuz I. [ __ ] smell terrible that was a fun. trip man that was actually the first. episode of of that show that I um that I. fully kind of shot and directed myself. so that that was kind of a big stage for. me it was fun I just basically hung out.

with Callen in the wood for a week when. you have when you have Callen when. Callen has a like a captive audience. he's the funniest man alive I will never. forget a few scenes I won't share them. but a few scenes from that campfire do. you remember the rine CER oh I remember. yeah of course I do I remember him. taking a [ __ ] literally 10 ft from our. campfire his ass sticking out and we put. a flag in it I took pictures of it I. have that [ __ ] we put an aluminum flag. on it and stuck it in there I've never. never touched another man's [ __ ] other.

than his I tried to set up a hunt for. myself last year in the breaks and it. just ended up didn't happening but uh. it's one of my favorite places man oh. it's so lonely out there but so amazing. that area is so like it's such a perfect. place to introduce Ken and I to the the. world of hunting cuz it's so wild well. it's multifaceted too you have a lot of. history there you have the uh you know. it's it's one of those areas where it's. a complete Wilderness experience because. on the water right we're not Crossing.

roads like we got dropped off at the end. of a road and floated to basically the. next road down the river which is a big. deal we floated 40 miles down over the. course of what was it six days is one. are one of these bucks yeah that one. right there that's the buck right there. hey buddy hey fella that's a different. time that was in Wisconsin that was when. we Wisconsin that video that he just put. up but um when we did do that man it was. uh that was where Lewis and Clark had. made some stops.

and that's where one of the coolest. things about doing it with Rella cuz he. knows so much about the history of the. United States and the the settling of. the United States and also the Nez Pur. Indian stories that he would tell us oh. yeah he talk years yeah and that's when. I heard the story about the what the. real story the original story about the. Leonardo dicapo movie the Revenant like. what really happened before they turned. it into a movie yeah he told me that. story the actual story about the guy. that got left behind and crawled back.

many many miles what's the guy's name I. don't remember the actual guy's name but. there's so much they made up in the. movie it's just kind of brutal yeah it. was a freaky movie it was a fre the. grizzly bear attack was was a real. freaky thing the real grizzly bear. attacks though man I I bet the real. Grizzly just kind of swatted that dude. once and then just he fell down and then. it left him alone why do you think that. cuz that thing would have Torn to Pieces. yeah it was a giant bear too I just.

[ __ ] Bears man they scare the [ __ ] out. of me I wonder what the average length. of time of a bear attack like how long's. it last two seconds 30 seconds well the. um that movie Grizzly Man apparently the. audio of him getting killed by the bear. is like seven minutes long I listened to. that that was terrible no it's not real. the one you listen to online's not real. oh no [ __ ] it's fake yeah yeah the. actual audio was never released My Life. Is A Lie yeah I somebody sent it to me. too but then I looked into it and um. Warner heard OG and the woman who owns.

the actual audio they got rid of it they. they destroyed it they never listened to. it and Warner Herzog actually told her. to destroy it in the documentary so the. one when you hear it online it's just. fake and then once you know it's fake. and you listen to it you go oh this. shit's fake like you can hear it all. right you want hear I'm not going to. listen to it again I mean sure yeah. listen I don't really want to see if you. can find it Grizzly Man audio you hear. it and you go oh yeah this isn't real. that's one my top five movies of all.

time though it's a great movie. Incredible movie it's one of the. funniest movies ever as far as. unintentional comedy oh my God it's. funny when the was it the sheriff the. sheriff goes I thought he was. [ __ ]. here so here you hear like screams and. [ __ ] here all the fox audio bear. attack oh. why is it echoing hear the echo yeah.

that's that was done in a room all these. these. voices supposed to be supposed to be in. the. woods these that audio is unquestionably. done in a room somewhere see it's. resonating yeah totally of course so now. you. know those [ __ ] they got us do. you think they benefited from creating. that probably yeah money yeah somebody. probably put up some YouTube ads made. some cash all right it's entirely.

possible or they just did it for fun it. sound like people are having a good time. like as the guy's yelling it sounds like. you can almost kind of like hear in his. yells like holy [ __ ] someone's going to. believe this this is so ridiculous yeah. but it supposedly lasted s. minutes cuz the bear just started eating. them wait so what's that what is that. stat that's not from like the real audio. actual audio minutes because the bear is. not trying to kill them it's just eating. them yeah cuz Bears apparently well I've.

seen bears kill moose in videos and they. just start eating them they don't kill. them I know wolves too wolves do too. they just eat right away they start. right at the back end and start just. start eating you they don't they don't. bother they don't have the decency like. at least a mountain line kills you you. know cats kill you bears and wolves they. just eat. you I guess they just don't need to they. don't need to incapacitate you I mean. you're there well I think it's also a.

thing with omnivores omnivores I think. don't have that instinct to instantly. kill that's interesting yeah but that. doesn't make sense though my theory. sucks because of wolves cuz. Wolves yeah right cariv break B yeah so. maybe it's uh interesting yeah I don't. know I mean they they do that because. they have to right like that's how they. they take they take down a running. animal that's how wolf kills they snap. at the legs right yeah and then they. just it's the easiest softest part of. the just start EA on the back.

end I was listening to a podcast today. about wolves in Idaho where they were. talking about how when you go deep into. the back country where people can't get. to or where it's very difficult really. Rocky terrain the wolves are just. running rampant out there they just have. so many wolves there ever seen one in. the wild no should put that on your list. I actually did see one in Alberta I. think but it was at Twilight and it was. dog sized and it ran across the road and. it was a little too big to be a coyote.

sure in my mind but I thought I saw a. wolf for like 2 seconds and it was a. squirrel so take that with a grain of. thought I've seen a couple the the most. memorable we were we were in a valley in. Alaska and it was Dusk and you know just. two massive mountain ranges on each side. and uh I don't know it might have been. Giannis somebody yelled and somebody. spotted one across the river and we went. and looked at it and it was it was man. my my memories felling it was either. Pure White I think it was p P white and.

it just I swear to God it Shone I I it. just like emanated light and it was the. most like Regal beautiful just like. perfect perfect and it just sort of. trotted along the river disappeared back. in the woods and they're amazing animal. no it's I was thinking about this. morning on a hike here I was looking for. mountain lion tracks but you know the. sign at the trail head says you gives. you warning about mountain lions they're. out here for sure yeah I never really um. I don't know the only thing that ever. gives me in the woods is is a Grizzly.

because you know Steve and I we got. charged that once and ever since that. happened my uh be radar is more intense. it's just such a freaky animal yeah when. you see what a Grizzly really is. essentially a THB giant wild dog have. you seen those in the wild yourself yet. Grizzly no never seen a Grizzly not in. the wild I've seen them you know live in. a sanctuary and I've seen a lot of oh no. I did see a gz Grizzly I saw small.

grizzly in Alberta uh last year yeah but. it wasn't that big it was like maybe 6. and 1 half 7 feet it was from a stand. were you pretty close yeah it was very. close it was like 30 or 40 yards from us. yeah yeah but it took off pretty quick. but it wasn't a Grizzly like they had. some trail cam photos of like [ __ ]. tankers they were goddamn VW buses this. was like a juvenile so it's Pro like I. said probably like 6 and2 ft or. something like that which where I live. in Boseman so it's literally a line.

right where we are so south of us is the. Gallatin range and the Madison range. just full full of Grizzlies yeah but. just north of town There's the Bridger. range and a couple other ranges too and. for whatever reason that is an impass to. the population of bears why is more or. less do they have any ideas I I mean it. might be um just physicality it might be. actually you know Steve reenal would be. the one that I've heard him talk about. this he would know exactly but it's. either a physical impass or it's it's. the human uh the proximity to humans of.

the of the town and all this but the way. that it relates is that you know if I'm. going to go hiking with my little baby. boy I choose to go north just just. because you know I don't think I would. have always thought that way and I carry. bear spray usually you carry a pistol I. don't I probably will in the future just. because that guy he was from Boseman. that got attacked last year yeah he got. tore up man that was horrific oh yeah. with his scalp is hanging off his head. while he's making the video was a gnarly.

and he wasn't hunting he was just hiking. he was scouting and um he used bear. spray and it didn't work it was a s with. her Cubs yeah so that's about I don't. know 50 miles from where I live is where. he got hit 60 Mi something like that so. close yeah. Jesus yeah nothing to mess around with. man I think it's awesome that they they. exist I really I think it's so cool that. they exist I don't want them to not. exist but at the same time I don't want. to be near them yeah you know I don't. want to encounter so it's it's so uh see.

yeah I'm I'm more sensitive to him now I. really have a deep deep love for them. sharks on the other hand We Could Just. Kill Them fck care what's weird people. are getting like really touchy feely. about sharks cuz they hear all about. these sharks getting slaughtered for. shark fin soup so like yeah the governor. I think of New York caught a shark um. fishing totally legal and not an. endangered fish at all and got so much.

hate because people who it's like we. were talking before about science that. so many people want to argue things. online but they don't want to actually. like look into like what are the studies. that have been done how much do people. actually know what is the no people want. to have an opinion they have this like. narrow window of information and they. I'm just going to run with my opinion. and say [ __ ] you for killing that shark. oh yeah you know but people I don't. think people have time necessar to go. investigate everything they have an. opinion about you know which is an issue. no but they do have time to tweet about. it [ __ ] get mad at the governor was it.

the governor or was it the mayor of New. York that that got in trouble for the. shark well he didn't get in trouble cuz. what he did was totally legal and they. cooked it and moo shark is delicious. tast sharks the best I've ever had yeah. in Puerto Rico they Ser they serve shark. everywhere like you go to a a food stand. they fry a shark put it on a stick it's. it's a fish I mean it's an ocean it's an. ocean out there it is New York Governor. Sparks anger after killing threatened. shark but it's not threatened that's not. true why does it say threatened shark. that's not threatened animal thresher.

shark yeah I don't I don't think that's. but it said threatened Right Said. thresher did it say in the the headline. oh threatened oh yeah said threatened I. don't think that's. true I do not think that's a threatened. animal I'd have to look at I have all. three species of thresher shark is. listed as vulnerable by the. international Union for conservation of. nature because of their declining. populations fishing for them is. regulated in the National Oceanic and. Atmospheric Administration but it is not. illegal oh okay despite its legality un.

patrons of the ocean Lewis pug said the. killing in subsequent photos were. abhorent oh he might be a [ __ ] and. worked against those trying to conserve. dwindling shark numbers um okay yeah all. right well maybe he's right I know that. some of them are. not I don't know man I mean you can't. really control what kind of fish you. catch when you go fishing and if you. catch a fish that's legal what do you do. the problem with catch and release this.

is a dirty secret ladies and gentlemen. cuz people do go catch and release. fishing and I've released fish before a. lot of them die it's it's kind of weird. like oh yeah I don't is is that a secret. still you think I mean that's for some. folks okay yeah yeah not for you sure oh. absolutely I mean think about it I mean. it'd be like taking you and I and. dunking us underwater for five minutes. and putting us back or even worse. shoving a [ __ ] Barb through your face. oh yeah and then drowning us cuz that's. what we're doing to them we're literally. drowning them. literally yeah well I mean some people.

use barbless hooks which are better and. the inside of a mouth of a fish is very. different than our mouth so like I mean. there's right there's best practices to. to to harm the fish as little as. possible and I think you know that fly. fishing sure yeah fly fishing with. barbless hooks yeah you can most likely. you can most of them are going to be. fine yeah but a lot of them are not it's. a weird practice I just don't I don't. they putting them back yeah yeah well it. just yeah I'm not a I'm not a catch and.

release F fisherman I'm not even a huge. fisherman I love to eat it I love to go. to Alaska catch a buttload of fish come. home and eat it for the rest of the year. I need to go halit fishing yes you do. you done that yet no no I love Hal I've. gone fluke fishing I've caught flounder. before which a little baby hbits but and. they're delicious but hbet is supposed. to be like one of the most delicious. fish to catch and then cook like right. away oh it's amazing I mean I it's um. it's one of those real fleshy white fish. kind of like grouper you know grouper M. um. and uh yeah like chunks of halet deep.

fried like like well coated and deep. fried the thing about halet if you. overcook it though it's like chewing on. a sock it just gets tough real fast and. maybe that's true of other white flesh. fish like that too but no it's delicious. it's not the most exciting to catch well. they're giant doors like a door yeah. yeah you're just like haing up this. heavy ass they're so alien looking too. two eyes on one side of their head and. they flatten out at the bottom of the. ocean you know that their eye migrates. right really they start swimming up and.

down eyes on each side and then sorry to. part of their uh maturation processes. they flip over well as they're getting. older yeah as they're getting older and. their eye literally slides onto the. other side oh so but it stays there once. it's on the other side yeah it's not. like can't go back and forth yeah it. stays on that side how [ __ ] weird. they're so weird looking it it looks. wrong you see two eyes on one side of. their head their body's flattened out. and but it's full of so much good meat. oh yeah oh man it's like as heavy like.

my aunt and uncle live on Kodiak Island. we've been going up there since I was a. kid and I mean it's you know it's that's. as much meat as a deer right it catch a. 200 lb halit which isn't the most common. they can be way bigger than that too. you're supposed to release the really. big ones though right don't they say. that I don't know maybe yeah I'm not. sure A friend of mine caught one and it. was apparently enormous and he was. Furious because the guide they went. fishing with the guide the guide cut the. line cuz it was so big do you think he. just couldn't get in the boat no no no.

he said look we got to let this go. because it's a big breeder oh and that. these these big ones are responsible for. keeping the populations healthy and. because this guy made a living off of. fishing he's like it's our. responsibility to cut this loose and the. guy was like what are you talking about. he's like this is like he didn't know. that that was going to be an option yeah. and so he's pulling up this thing where. you know he described it as like the. side of a wall oh yeah it's like the. wall of a room it's like it's [ __ ]. huge I don't know if it's true with. Haled but I know other fish you know.

sometimes the big ones don't eat that. well like they just not as good so it. might not have been it's not like he's. goingon to get that mounted I doubt like. a 400 pound they say that's true with. deer too like I've never eaten a really. old deer but they say old deer just do. not taste that good it can be it I know. I know they they can be worse for sure. didn't you shoot an old dough that was. Mo was Mo that's right yeah and he said. it was rough never had isw it over a. winter my little brother shot me a deer. and gave it to me for Christmas and was. the first slightly off tasting animal.

that I've tasted in man seven years you. know I've been eating a lot of animals. you know over my course of time um you. know we're talking about mediator which. I worked on for a long time I don't. anymore but um I ate a lot of animals. and they all tasted exceptionally good. and my brother shot this one and um I. don't know what it was it was cold he he. killed it um and it got dark and he had. to track it in early the next morning. and it uh. did he got shot it no no he hit it well.

it it it it died fairly close um but. yeah know it was it was pretty gnarly. and I even made I made sausage out of it. and tried to eat that and that was hard. to get down really w we have a we have a. couple pounds of it left still it just. wasn't good hm that's weird well maybe. it was a tarsel glands or something like. was it in the Rut no it was muzzle loer. season in in December in Minnesota and. uh I don't know what what it was I. really don't yeah well you hear stories.

you know I I'll tell you what man that. was one of the things that really got me. into hunting not with just the how cool. that trip was and how amazing it was and. how bizarre it is to be out there in. total silence no cell phone signal you. don't hear not what did we see like. maybe three people the whole week we. were out there yeah two boats maybe I. don't even remember seeing them I. remember we saw a dude's tent and he had. like a little uh wood stove and I was. like Steve we got to get a stove what. the [ __ ] is this this guy's got a stove. inside of his tent cuz he was staying.

warm in his tent we were freezing our. dicks off and then we saw another guy. who uh had a deer in his boat he had. shot up remember that guy yeah that was. a memorable meal man yeah that was was I. going to say the food was so good once. we did shoot that deer and we ate it. that night I was like good lord it's. still it's the best meat ever and POS. there's so much connected to it you know. it's not just that it's like you went to. a restaurant you had a delicious meal. it's like no you like you busted your.

ass for 5 days humping over mountains. finally put a stalk on a deer shot the. deer killed it dragged it back to Camp. cut it up butchered it and then we ate. it and like and then when Steve took. that dough head and buried it. underground because uh what is that. Guthrie book uh Big Sky yeah right it. was in the book Sky yeah yeah I think. it's B Sky I think that's the name of it. I think that's the name of the book okay. right sounds right and um in that book. he talk about cooking a deer head under.

the ground so Steve wanted to try yeah. we soaked a burlap sack River it was. incredible it it was really good it was. incredible it was like some sort of. exotic smoked pork or something like. that yeah Biz yeah yeah we ate. everything man we ate the liver we ate. the heart we we ate it all it was. amazing do you still have a freezer full. of meat right now or you I shot an elk. nice in October so yeah and I I had shot. a deer in November but I ate that deer. pretty quick yeah I had a dud of a. season last year and so this year for.

the first time a long time I've been. eating. more you know local pork and beef and. I'm just so sick of it man I can't wait. I can't wait until this fall again and. no when are you going back home back. home from here yeah I'm going home um a. week from two weeks from yesterday I. have two commercial freezers in the back. I could hook you up yeah yeah I'm turn. it I don't know how you get it to you. how could you get it. back um let me think about it I can I. can go buy a cooler something go buy. small Yeti figure something out we'll. get you some I have one of those Yeti.

hoppers at home I could give you that. that makes me really proud that like you. know I was there the first time you. hunted now you're going to hook me up. with meat hell yeah man that's good. stuff I live off it now I don't buy meat. anymore unless I go to a restaurant it's. very rare that I go to a store like a. butcher shop and buy meat unless there's. something I'm preparing it's just not as. good it's just actually not as good beef. or I I find that it's it's different it. tastes like a soft lazy animal it's. weird like when you eat a steak like. from a butcher shop I mean they taste.

good they still taste good but it tastes. like like this soft almost sick thing. like there's a difference between. grass-fed beef and that's one of the. things that I noticed like way back in. the day when I first started uh learning. about grass-fed beef I'm like well what. is the difference and people explain to. you oh there's a difference in the fatty. acids and what's what's healthier about. it is these animals are not supposed to. be eating grain and when they eat grain. it's bad for their body and that's why. they're so fat and the marbling is. actually them being incredibly un. healthy I'm like huh okay so I'm going.

to try some grassed meat it was so. expensive and then it was a small like. they're smaller like the steaks are. small and it's a darker meat I'm like hm. and then I remember eating it thinking. wow this tastes really different yeah it. does like a grass-fed steak tastes. different than a grain fed steak they. look different when you lay them out. side by side oh yeah but then you take. those and then you put an elk steak next. to it and you go okay that's the real. meat man that's what you're supposed to. be eating you're supposed to be eating. that deep dark red meat that you you eat. it and you just want to run through a.

[ __ ] wall it's like it's got energy. in it like it it it makes your body feel. different when you eat it so what is. what do you think that is what is is. that is that a psychological thing do. you think that it's actually biological. in the meat it is better there's. something in there more for you how do. you how do you make sense of that for. yourself I have a a terrible. unscientific Theory my unscientific. theory is things that run fast are. better for you that's why fish is really. good for you cuz it's hard to catch. they swim fast deer are great they run.

fast rabbits are great they run fast. cows just sort of wander around yeah you. know they're just Meandering and slow I. like your theory but it makes sense that. we have more cows cuz it's just all. right there Coral those [ __ ] well you. know um my buddy Adam lives in uh. Australia Adam green tree and in. Australia they have wild cows where cows. at one time were domestic but they broke. loose and they been for many many many. generations living wild and they're.

extremely dangerous yeah especially the. Bulls like when you watch Cowboys riding. bulls and you're like wow this is crazy. look at that guy rid yeah that's a. [ __ ] big scary animal but again a. domestic animal that is not fighting off. Predators it's not I mean it's just it. doesn't want you to [ __ ] with it it's. got these giant watermelon testicles and. they're just full of piss and vinegar. and that we don't eat those for people.

who don't know when you buy meat from a. cow you're buying meat from a steer and. what a steer is is a bull they cut his. balls off when he's young so his. testosterone stops so his body's mushy. and soft yeah but these bulls that atam. sees out in the the bush in Australia. are super aggressive and very dangerous. and one of his friends was torn apart by. one gored like really badly no they. lived but they had a med vacum to safety. t guts open and you know he was I don't.

even think he was hunting it I think. like he was just in the wrong place the. wrong time they see you and they just. [ __ ] charge yeah there's a reason why. they have those goddamn giant horns yeah. what's the saying that uh you cut you. cut a male animal's balls off and they. stop thinking about ass and starts. thinking about grass right so I mean. it's it's literal you know they stop. trying to get laid and they just eat. they just keep eating yeah and they just. the lack of testosterone makes them soft. and mushy whereas um cam Haynes shot a. water buffalo in Australia and he said.

that he had one piece of meat in his. mouth for half an hour trying to chew it. down while he was practicing archery he. goes I'm not. exaggerating chewed one piece of meat. for a whole half hour just what's it say. about us though as as humans though I. mean you could easily make a analogy. there between cows and and a wild animal. and us I mean nobody's more domesticated. than us like these things we domesticate. I think we are you know we're the.

domesticat somehow but I think we're. even more domesticators like like if you. could eat one of the Duck Dynasty guys. like oh man they would cook up good. they' be soof say they're more oh mushy. and you know there would be so much. flavoring and marbling plus they. probably eat a lot of sugar so there's. probably like a lot of like sweetness to. the meat yeah I'm not advocating this it. depends what your tooth is though if. used to eating wild animals and you ate.

one of the Duck Dynasty guys who would. taste like [ __ ] that's true that's true. but if you eat McDonald's and ring dings. what's what's ring like one of those. little hostess things little chocolate. covered cream fil. jammies I might have to get one of those. I haven't had one of those they're. disgusting they look great you're like. oh going going enjoy this and then as. soon as you eat it you're like what the. [ __ ] is wrong with me man yeah I love. just I had some tacos I got to town last. night and uh had to go to the first T I.

saw it was the best we have legit. Mexican food in La the most does not. have Mexican food not really right not. such good Mexican food but Colorado has. some really good Mexican food it does it. does yeah it it the the line of that I. think stops at Colorado maybe Wyoming I. don't think has it but North into of. Montana you're you're in dead zone well. where you are is amazing though it's. worth it you could take a trip for. Mexican food cuz where you are is like I. feel like I mean almost feel like I. shouldn't say this on the podcast.

because I don't want anybody move to. Boseman it's already on all of the list. it's everybody I mean it's the cats out. of the bag it's not you're not spilling. the beans here I know but I mean it. really is a special place it's the. people are so nice yeah they're not dumb. either it's not like uneducated no no no. it's actually that county has the. highest uh percentage of phds in America. what Boseman really yeah look it up fact. wow yeah it's a highly educated. population but it's also not like.

Boulder where they're like oh my God. Save The Butterfly you know they're more. rational about their approach to Nature. it's balanced you can find some you know. you can find good yoga you can find your. wooo stuff but there's also a raner. right next to you it's really. interestingly like div neutral it is. yeah it's diverse some ways not with. mostly white yeah no. that's that way moving there from New. York and and uh that is my least. favorite thing about about Montana in.

general it's not a whole lot of flavor. no. no but there's so many good things about. and the the landscape like what you get. to see when you're there is just. stunning and the access to the land is. is the huge it's a huge thing too I mean. in Bowman from my house. in I don't know how many in F four. different directions three different. directions you can be at a trail in 15. minutes and it's just it's just endless. you know you can get on a trail right. side man I can't talk right outside of. Boseman and you can go if you wanted to.

for days through the Yellowstone. ecosystem South and just keep going and. keep going and keep going I mean it it. connects you to I mean real big. Wilderness the kind the kind that you. can I mean in Alaska you find it even. bigger but I think in the lower 48 um. yeah it's unparalleled man yeah in the. lower 48 is it's about as wild as it. gets and that leads me to what I want to. bring up to you today because I saw this. today where Trump is is is challenging. some of the protection of certain.

national monuments in some public lands. today was something that came out like I. told you [ __ ] I knew this was coming. there were so many people that were. telling me that Trump is going to. protect our public lands cuz his son is. a hunter and like listen man that guy. worships money there there's money to be. made in delisting these public look at. this Trump order could roll back public. land protections from three presidents. this is scary he's going to have a [ __ ]. storm on his hands though man play this. so we could hear exactly what he says of.

America's natural. resources and I can tell you the group. that's in here right now they're really. doing the job right Lisa they doing a. good job uh we're going to take care of. Alaska too don't worry about. it and they protect the ability of the. people to access and utilize the land. which truly belongs to them and belongs. to all of us. secretary Ryan zeni is doing an.

incredible. job and he never overlooks the details. he's a detailed. person soon after he was confirmed we. had a snowstorm big one and he was out. there on the steps of the Lincoln. Memorial shoveling the snow all by. himself and he's a strong guy he did a. good job what the [ __ ] am I listening. very very good job we're proud of in the.

first 100 days we've taken historic. action to eliminate. wasteful regulations they're being. eliminated like nobody's ever seen. before there's never been anything like. it sometimes I look at some of the. things I'm signing I say maybe people. won't like it but I'm doing the right. thing what the hell this is so weird. that that's a president like the way he. communicates did you see when he he just. pinned a Purple. Heart.

Jesus he just pinned a Purple Heart on. on a return vet I got lost his leg it. just happened last couple days it's the. most awkward and the weirdest it is the. weirdest single thing I've ever watched. on the screen his his body language and. his um what he. does it's bizarre he's an it's really. bizarre man what does it say there in. terms of like what the uh actual roll. backs mean and what the the issue is.

[Music].

in like the people having the the the.

actual American people owning this. incredible swath of public land yeah I. mean it's it's wild like what you're. talking about like you can walk for days. and days into that stuff yeah I think. they don't know that it exists. necessarily and I think even to me more. importantly they don't understand the. impact that that actually has on people. and what it actually means to be able to. be part of something like that it's it's. a really deep important thing and I. think that people just. you know you get your postcard uh.

tourists and and you say oh I love the. National Force I love the national parks. and let's drive around and take pictures. and that's great that's fine there's a. big industry there it's very helpful to. the economy and but there's something. way deeper too that that brings a lot of. people um and I would even say. culturally something really deep there. that we shouldn't be [ __ ] with we. just shouldn't be messing with it well. it's been there for a 100 years 110. years it's you know Teddy.

itself has been way longer and that's. you know sort of like the Deep time part. of that is what really interests me is. because you know you step out into that. in the right context and you're all of a. sudden you know you're uh you're playing. with something way bigger and more. powerful and more impactful by just. being part of a landscape that's yeah. you know but you're right yeah the the. conservation thing is is present and. real and um the I grew up in Minnesota. in North Dakota and my my first. Wilderness trip was in The Boundary. Waters of northern Minnesota it's this.

million acre million acre Wilderness of. lakes that are interconnected by trails. and you can go out for weeks at a time. and canoe across a lake and then carryer. boat to the next Lake and there's. campsites and it's just it's Paradise. it's where I fell in love with the idea. of wilderness it's actually where I fell. in love with my f the first lady that I. fell in love at the same time I was on a. church trip oh no yeah and uh but you. know so what I you know what I'm saying. as far as it's shaping people its. importance I mean that first trip into. Wilderness changed my life like and.

that's a that's a pretty mild way of. saying it it it it shaped who I am all. the way well that gets us to what you're. doing now because you you stop working. for 0.0 and we talked about on the last. podcast that you had done a lot of these. Wilderness therapy trips yeah where you. take like troubled kids that have lost. their way and their parents don't know. what the [ __ ] to do and you would take. them out into the woods and live with. these kids for months yeah for time. which is crazy to think about like that.

but makes sense like just the 5 days. that I was out there 6 days or whatever. when I first went to Montana with you. guys changed the way I thought about. Wilderness cuz I really had never been I. mean I'd kind of been to like wooded. areas right you know what I'm saying but. I I mebe I went to Yellowstone when I. was a kid but I didn't really remember. it it's a different thing man and we. went to Alaska right and that was to to. me that's another level of I should have. listened to you on that trip you were.

like [ __ ] that place we shouldn't go to. that place sure it was uncomfortable but. um I'm glad we went though now yeah in. retrospect right I mean and I'm glad you. went just because of the level of uh how. deep out we are I mean I mean you know. the the Missouri breaks Montana you're. out there but in in this spot on in. Southeast Alaska we were really out. there you can feel in the air I thought. about two mon when I fell I fell off of. this like 6ot drop I slipped and just. and luckily I just landed good but I was.

like man you could [ __ ] yourself up up. here yeah and not be able to get out of. here like especially if you do a solo. trip oh yeah man no bueno no totally. yeah I'm addicted to that that feeling. yeah that sort of immense kind of it. takes you over you are so tiny you are. not you know you're not in charge. anymore it doesn't care about you that's. the thing like the thing about like. Prince of whale. is this Solitude this sadness that's.

beautiful it's really weird it's a weird. feeling that you get where you just like. it there's no denying your lack of. significance in this particular. environment it doesn't give a [ __ ] about. your credit cards it doesn't care by. your cell phone it doesn't care who you. know or where you live or what kind of. car you it doesn't give a [ __ ] yeah it's. just tooth and Fang and Claw and rain. and constant rain yeah and Beauty just. unbel believable Beauty like the like. when the a roller coaster oh yeah I mean.

you're just in hell and all of a sudden. you're on the top of a ridge and and the. and the Sun Peaks out and a rainbow pops. up and like the Technic color hyper. Vivid just like crazy green yeah it's uh. you know what some sorry about that I. have cold um that place has a. personality yeah right but being in. Wilderness I've been in Wilderness spots. all over the globe it's what's so. fascinating to me is how they all have a. different vibe they have a different. like life and and it it is it's it's.

like uh I mean sure it looks different. but there's a like a felt sense or a. feeling you get from place like the. Brooks range in Alaska is the the. northernmost range of mountains and it. runs east and west and then above it is. the Arctic um the Arctic plane and then. Arctic Ocean there is something about. being up there and especially I think in. the summer when when the sun doesn't. really go down it is it is it feels like. being on a different planet but. oh man I don't know if I have the words. to describe it but yeah man I mean and.

that's what I said I'm addicted to I'm I. am and I you know I moved to Montana for. professional reasons but then also. because it's where I wanted to live and. so I get out hiking all the time you. know I train I hike with that's kind of. how I stay fit um but I come I need to. figure this out because I come home from. that feeling like I just like got. started you know I missed the Deep. immersion of the. woods when you were working for meater.

and constantly on those trips or yeah. anytime that I spent over I think. there's something that happens after you. know it depends on how long like the. longest I've stayed out at a time is uh. 40 some days um but there's something. that happens I don't know a day two days. three days 5 days in where you really. just kind of let go of the regular you. know I don't know I think it's actually. physiological some of it but whatever it. could be just psychological too but. something shifts you know when you do a. real Expedition when you do a real thing.

where you're not your brain's not half. stuck back in all the other stuff and uh. so yeah I go hiking and I love it you. know all the time and we get out in the. woods but it just doesn't really do it. for me I I feel kind of unfulfilled. that's interesting so you you just got. so addicted to being out there. completely disconnected that you when. you go on the hike you know you could. always just make it back to town a. couple hours oh yeah it's just like a. little I'm trying to think of like an. analogy but it would be like uh Little.

Taste yeah it would be like maybe um. like a f minute porn session versus a. weeklong like love making session that. of your dreams right just like a little. uh yeah a little teaser just not as fun. do you do you plan on staying there is. that I think so yeah I mean we think. about we definitely won't move back East. we would either move somewhere out here. or stay there it gets cold as [ __ ] in. the winter though right it does yeah not. not that cold actually like not compared.

to where I grew up in Minnesota it gets. really cold for a long time yeah and. Montana where we're at used to do that. but um global warming something yeah. something it's different this year was. pretty mild the year before was really. really mild you know like 35 average. temperature really that's it yeah it's. not that bad Oh I thought it was like 35. below no you go Northern Montana U up in. the Highline area it'll start to you. know more of a deep freeze a lot more. wind boseman's kind of a nice little. protected we should stop talking about.

Boseman so people you're telling you. we're gonna get people into it it's um. well just another fact on that it is the. I think the third fastest growing County. in the in the states right now wow so. well it makes sense when I was there we. went there took the family there last. summer I was like this place is Magic. it's so pretty I got a couple other. spots though that I'm saving oh don't. tell anybody no I'm not going to um when. you were in the Brooks range did you put. uh like uh masks on to go to sleep those. you know those sleeping masks they say.

that's a t-shirt yeah I just use a. t-shirt just cover your eyes yeah yeah. they say you have to cuz if you just try. to like sleep you wake up a couple hours. later and be all bewildered oh yeah no. it's weird it's weird it's it's one it's. cool it's a very it's a perception. changing thing to go up there and watch. the sun literally just kind of like you. know Kiss The Horizon and then just keep. going and yeah I went to Anchorage. couple of years ago in the summer we. were there in July me and my friend Ari. went fishing up there we did some shows. up there and uh it was weird it like. 2:00 in the morning it was light out.

we're like what in the [ __ ] is this like. and the people are cool as [ __ ] that's. another place there's something about. like those people like Alaska even more. extreme because something about those. people that they deal with nature in a. way that everybody else just doesn't oh. yeah well they have yeah all the time. whe weather's gnarly I mean you can't. walk out your house for more than 10. miles before you have it you know giant. massive in front of you big peak the. ocean right there yeah yeah yeah I mean.

Anchorage is a it's a weird place too I. love it yeah it's really interesting too. because you think of it as like a bunch. of like Lumberjacks and fishermen and. Weirdos and like people trying to run. from the law or something like that and. you get there and there's like honk free. equality there was a bunch of people. with gay right signs people beep in. their horns as they drove by I'm like oh. this is not what you think it is craft. breweries and really good restaurants. like oh oh okay this is it's not it's. not like Hicks I feel like it has a.

little bit of Flavor of the Pacific. Northwest of Seattle and Portland but. then then a big dose of weird too yeah a. lot of weird a lot of extreme you I mean. these are these are people that are. they're this is where they're going to. live and die yeah and you know there's. grizzly bears everywhere a lot of motans. and folks from where I grew up there's. there's a big connection a lot of people. move up to have moved up to Alaska so I. like I said I grew up going up there. fairly regular in the summer who did you. say lives that you know that lives on.

Kodiak Island my dad's sister and her. family that's a scary place those bears. are [ __ ] giant yeah yeah they are. aren't they the biggest brown bears in. the world uh they might be I think I've. heard that the Kamchatka brown bears in. Siberia in in Russia across I don't know. if that is Siberia but across the the. water there um they might be bigger I. could be totally wrong about that but I. saw um this video of this guy that you. remember that show that was on it was.

called the hunt it was um a show that it. was interesting because um James. Hatfield of Metallica was the narrator. of it right and people were so angry at. him for narrating this thing that they. were uh talking about boycotting. Metallica when they played some music. festival I never watched I I remember. you talking about it and then yeah I. know what you're talking about and it. was about uh bear hunting right yeah. yeah it was about brown bear hunting. which is a really controversial form of. hunting because you don't really eat.

those things I mean you kind of can but. they taste like [ __ ] well the coastal. ones do especially they're just eating. rotten fish all the time like animals. taste like what they what they eat which. is really yeah I mean makes sense but it. seems pretty counterintuitive you know I. dare Trump to try to take away some of. those Alaskan Wilderness areas man I. mean the the real worry is that he's. going to let people drill in him and. they're going to destroy something. that's the the real worry the real worry. is the reason why he's releasing or.

relaxing some of these regulations is. that he wants to let industry get in. there MH and as soon as they start. fracking and polluting Wells and rivers. and it's just it's [ __ ] dangerous man. it's just not it's something that if. they do [ __ ] it up it could be [ __ ] up. for a hundred Generations yeah do you. ever live in New York City not in the. city I used to live in new relle which. is right outside the Bronx I lived there. for seven years or so and um if there if. there wasn't the existence of Central.

Park and I lived in Brooklyn so Prospect. Park if those two green places didn't. exist while I lived there I would have. probably lost my mind or just moved. right I feel like these big areas of. wilderness we have you know as we we. will not be okay as as humans I mean. like individually sure it is it gonna. here's my Worry My worry is that. um you know the general American public.

or or the general public doesn't have. enough connection or real life. experience to know why to care so much. and right you know that's a big deal and. it's um I don't know there's a lot of. different angles you could take on that. there's that there's so much but there's. just something that uh I wouldn't I. wouldn't uh I mean if it really gets. intense I'm going to have to basically. drop what I'm doing and do everything I. can to to stop stop them from from. harming these places I don't know what.

could be done my my real concern is not. just this what's going on now but the. future and then also when you really. consider it. overpopulation I mean there's 7 and a. half billion people on the planet now. the most recent census yeah this is. that's a half a billion increase over. the last I don't know how many years but. it hasn't been that many it was six. billion just a few years ago I remember. that was a number that they bandied. about like a decade or two ago yeah now. 7 and A2 like what happens when it gets. to be 30 like where are we going to put.

these [ __ ] what is the carrying. capacity there must be yeah it's weird. we're like Rats on a sinking ship yeah. we're just scrambling everywhere we're. everywhere we're like there's not. another animal like us when we're on. every [ __ ] patch of land you can find. yeah it's. weird but we're awesome except these. Wilderness spots right look at this this. is the current world population oh my. God Is that real how do they know that. births today it's based off averages.

look at the births today you could watch. the the numbers just roll in oh my God. the difference between the births today. and the deaths today that's incredible. that's why it's moving so fast people. are dying slow as [ __ ] population growth. today so the the average 139,000 people. today. wow 44 million this year oh my God it's. weird but. that's scary and what's the US 400. million I think we're.

300 plus. Mexicans 326 it says see but that's. they're not counting they're not. counting all the people that snuck in I. just don't think they know like when. when theyd say Los Angeles when they say. Los Angeles 20 million I'm like okay and. what about the Mexicans yeah like cuz. there's a lot of [ __ ] and I'm not. anti-mexican in any way shape or form. ladies and gentlemen don't I'm just. looking at this pragmatically yeah. there's a [ __ ] shitload of illegal.

aliens here which I. support also how many people are here. that any given time that don't live here. but are here on vacation or working here. for like a week that's a good question. just added people for hundreds of. thousands I would imagine yeah probably. yeah when you get on the 405 and you. head to San Diego and it takes you six. hours and you go what is this like what. have we done this mass of human. yeah there's so many of us but when you.

get here and you realize oh you you guys. don't have any weather that's what it is. yeah but you could also you know go 30. miles outside the city and have that. same weather couldn't you yeah pretty. much not the people yeah but you know. you don't get the same Taco stands right. yeah I get it I like I love cities man I. miss it I miss living in New York City I. really do do um I wouldn't trade it at. this point you know I was younger and. single in New York had a had a fun time. and and moved to Montana have a family. now it's kind of perfect for for uh.

where I'm at in my life so I don't. really need anything else yeah that's. the balance right it's like there is no. really perfect place it's like there's. places that are perfect for certain. thing like if you're a comedian Los. Angeles is the best place it's either. Los Angeles or New York I prefer Los. Angeles there's a lot of clubs there's a. lot of comedians like most of the best. comedians in the world live here it's a. great place for us to network and we. work together andu like that and if you. if you want to be in that business this.

is probably the best place in the world. to do it so that's one of the reasons it. keeps me around here plus the podcast. and all that jazz but for peace of mind. it's not the best place no does that. actually [ __ ] with you yes yeah the the. numbers of humans is just it's untenable. you're close to North Korea yeah that's. right that's right but if you know what. man if they nuke California where are. you going to go you know I mean the. whole thing's going to be mess yeah you. might might as well you might be better. off if it lands on your.

head that's what I always say about. asteroids like you don't want to be that. guy in the movie that like is like. storing food in his basement and staying. up all night to shoot vandals and. because people are trying to steal your. canned goods that doesn't sound fun not. like a healthy life no you don't want to. live like that and then what happens you. die of old age die of old age protecting. your canned goods yeah and fight or. flight your entire life [ __ ] freaked out. [ __ ] that just let that rock land right. on your [ __ ].

head boom I used to stress out a lot. about where the perfect place to live. was I I just gave that up doesn't exist. it doesn't exist there's there's places. you don't want to be caught dead like. Florida I like Florida how dare you I. like it I what part Sarasota no my wife. was uh raised on Captiva Island which is. on the Southwest coast okay like Key. West is pretty dope yeah down there it's. pretty cool yeah that's it's a good. place you just want to drink and take. naps or fish or yeah yeah yeah there's. some cool stuff down there but it's just.

Florida's just so [ __ ] up it's they've. they've done such damage to Florida with. their oxycotton regulations you know at. one time there were more oxycotton. prescriptions in Florida than they were. the entire country combined seriously. yes I didn't know that it was insane how. is this recent as as like recent in. these in these late opioid struggles mhm. yeah there was a documentary that they. did on called the oxycotton Express that. on Vanguard wow and um these people that.

um went down there they went undercover. and uh saw how easy it is to buy opiates. down there they would they have these. One-Stop shops these pain management. centers where you'd go in he'd say hey. Doc my biking back is killing me doc. said you need some pills go right next. door so he'd write your prescription you. go right next door you get the pills and. then boom you're Off to the Races and. they didn't have a database which meant. that you could go to Dr Jamie and he say. Dr Jamie my back's killing me Dr Jamie. gives you a prescription you buy some.

opium pills or whatever the [ __ ] they. are and then you come to me and you go. Dr Joe my back is killing me I'm like oh. you were they just being sourced there. and then sold elsewhere or were they. they purposely made the regulations lack. there so they can make more money so. people were buying them and then. bringing them and selling them in. Kentucky and up to Ohio and that's why. they called it the oxyon express the. highway that led from Florida to the. rest of the country it sounds evil yeah. it was sick and you know a lot of people.

lost their lives and a lot of people. lost like who they were because of the. addiction wow yeah the the numbers were. insane like Google the numbers like what. what were the numbers of oxy cotton or. oxycodone I still don't know what the. difference is have you seen the the. reports lately showing that the uh the. life expectancy or the early death rate. of middle-age white men specifically. lately it has dropped for the first time. in I don't know dozens or a because pain. pills yeah well part of it they're.

calling them deaths of of uh despair how. they're being Jesus written about is. literally deaths of Despair it's it's. yeah Jesus it's heavy it's real heavy. that's a heavy there's been a spade of. Articles over the last three or four um. months just that's really diving into. and it's guys it's men here it is. doctors in Florida prescribed 10 times. more Oxycodone pills than every other. state in the country combined. wow and this is now right when is this.

article from this was actually from 2011. on NPR when the probably when it came. out oh there we. go I can get the updated One n doesn't. matter it's just it's a crazy Place. let's just put it that way despair is. one of the scariest words right despair. when you hear about someone like Despair. and lonely those are two like really so. that's the other word that they're using. is is is loneliness has been they're now. measuring it and loneliness is is as or.

worse of a health issue in our country. than smoking heavily smoking there. there's all this there's this new. loneliness is loneliness is isn't. overpopulation coincided with loneliness. at the same think about that we're. thrust further and further closer. together and we don't know each other. and we're more and more uh disconnected. and lonely and it's literally so there's. a whole new um I don't know how new but. it's called interpersonal neurobiology. which is the science of our brain wiring.

and phys physiological wiring on how. we're U yeah this is one of the Articles. loneliness might be a bigger health risk. than smoking or obesity whoa that's dark. dude it's dark but you know with the in. my life the experience I've had in my. life I'm when I read that I'm like of. course duh duh it makes sense yeah we. are a disconnected people we are. electronically digitally connected in a. crazy way but in a human way and it it's.

it literally is is harming aome people. are dying and it's crazy it's crazy. stuff so fascinating that like feelings. have an effect on your health like the. feeling of loneliness the feeling of. Despair it's not like you could eat your. vegetables you can get your exercise in. and you if you feel Despair and you feel. loneliness your body is actually like. being harmed by that but there's a real. like practical reason for that and. that's because we are when we come out. as babies we are the most. dependent individuals so like our you.

know what I mean like on your parents on. your mother we are completely socially. dependent when we're born completely and. so you know Abra Maslow's hierarchy of. needs you ever heard of that so it's. like you know to be okay you have to. take care of breathing and water and. your basic functions but there's there's. been um studies recently by these. neurobiologists that are showing that. these social needs are just ads or even. like come before some of these physical. needs there's it's it's crazy man and.

there's literally um there's a book. called social by a guy named Matthew. Lieberman like you got to check it out. and so what they are finding is that. there's like two uh parts of our. operating brain and this is you know. going to be me pairing it down but one. is the analytical thinking deciding. thing and the other is this social. awareness brain which is always like. always check cheing in on how am I in. relation to others and it's also the. part of the brain that actually we can.

you know like the metacognitive part and. the part that I can they call it mind. reading but really it's just it's just. by us sitting here I can kind of get a. sense of how you feel and what you're. thinking right just by the the. connection that we have and just it's. it's part of who we are so when our. analytical brain is offline this other. one the social one pops on immediately. so so what they're theorizing is that. that is like the fundamental. need for humans in safety and survival. is how are we uh relating to each other.

as a as a group but it makes sense if. you look I mean to me it makes sense in. um you know we are social animals we. forget that I think but you look at. other species of monkeys or Wolves or. whatever I mean you know there might be. a period of time where say a a wolf will. will get kicked out of a pack for a. while and he'll go do his thing but. eventually come back to a pack it's not. safe for us as humans and animals social. animals like these to be isolated it's.

it's not and and so there's all these. parts of us that just if we're not. connected to other people in a in a very. direct and true way there's these sort. of uh deep down emotional and. physiological uh fears that come up. right and they and they're they're real. and that's what the neurobiology is. showing which is really interesting I. mean we can just think about that but. they're actually showing it now that if. we're not not really connected to each. other we're going to be freaked out. we're not going to be okay and um you.

know I really believe that this really. drives a lot of the internal struggle we. have and we're really and this is part. of you know getting into it that's part. of my what I'm trying to bring into the. world and my platform now is is just to. you know stand up and say hey we need. each other and we can do it it's not and. for guys spe specifically right it's. such a social stigma of ours to not be. real or open or connected or vulnerable. with guys and. U and it's uh it's cool to see the.

science coming out because it's I have. all this anecdotal evidence of being out. the wood in the woods with kids or being. in in a men's grp with guys or running a. retreat or whatever this is of how. powerful it is to like set down all of. our differences and just be there with. others but now the science is really. lighting it up and yeah man loneliness I. mean we can all think about it. loneliness isn't fun it's not uh doesn't. feel good but the other this is crazy. too that they're showing that emotional.

pain lights up the same centers of our. brain as physical pain and that one. study showed that um an insult to. someone had much more painful and. long-term effects than slamming somebody. with a hammer hitting their hand with a. hammer so like our emotional pain. literally actually exists in the body. like it is actual pain and the the. reason that it's so uncomfortable to. feel our emotions which it is you know I.

mean I'll just say it is is that it. actually hurts like actually hurts I. mean and there's like people say things. like you broke my heart or I'm dying of. Heartache or whatever but that the. science is catching up and showing us. that this pain is actual it's real and. we're not addressing it we're not even. aware of it it's really interesting who. that's deep you know it's interesting. too because what what you're saying. about us being disconnected how. unhealthy it is and how unhealthy. loneliness is it sort of confirms these.

ideas that I've always had that the. human race itself is not like a group of. individuals but a superorganism much. like the human body is like the human. body like requires all the bacterior and. your gut all the skin Flora all the. different things that compose the actual. physical structure of the human body. whereas we think of it I think there's. some nutty number of how much bacteria. how many bacteria cells are in your body. versus how many human cells far. outnumbers the human cells and it's just.

that we think of ourselves as I'm Mike. and I put my shoes on and I go to work. cuz I am Mike and but Mike you're a. system you're a system of individual. organisms that are collectively keeping. this whole thing alive and when the. imbalance is off like when someone takes. an antibiotic and it [ __ ] up their gut. Flora like literally you've like nuked a. part of your civilization.

surged in kind invading Army coming in. and taking over part of your leg that. you have it operated on like yeah it. would be like slashing the tires of all. of our transport system in the country. like that's our gut that's like what. delivers things in in and out right yeah. and even has an impact on your your. health mentally in terms of like how you. feel and your you know depression a lot. of that is connected legitimately. connected to your diet and how that. affects your gut flora and it affects.

the way your body produces serotonin and. dopamine and it's bananas man oh yeah no. I get here it is scientists bust the. myth that our bodies have more bacteria. than human cells decades old assumption. about microbiota Revisited okay what's. the new new data one to one instead of. 10 to one so you are as much okay so. they used to say it was 10:1 but now. it's 1: one okay. wow that's still crazy man that's still. like your half bacteria yeah I like that.

analogy though of the body as as like a. civilization or whatever I mean think. about if you're one of your I don't know. one important neuron one cell neural. cell or something decided just to go. Rogue and not be in connection with the. rest of you right I mean I don't that. wouldn't work so well right I don't I. don't know what happen your body would. probably get rid of it and get it out of. there or I don't know maybe so I'm just. really reaching here but it's some sort. of Rogue cell at that point right like a. cancerous cell or something it would.

probably be attacked so yeah if you I. think that if you take that analogy you. know our civilization here is we're. hurting really hurting because we're. we're really not you know we are working. together obviously in practical ways a. lot of times you know work and commerce. and you know the world is functioning. but I think on a like a health and. fulfillment level we're we're missing. something pretty deeply yeah yeah well. also like let's talk about people that. are disconnected from actual humans but.

connected to them in a cyber way yeah. like how many people are like really. lonely in terms of like physical touch. and communication with friends and but. they sit in front of their computer all. day and they interact with people online. which shows you like some of the most. unhealthy communities you'll ever. encounter are like online message boards. and forums where people are just. Anonymous and interacting with people. without what we were talking about. earlier like one of the reasons why I. like to do podcast with a person in the.

room I've only done one podcast ever. through Skype um and that was with John. Anthony West because he was living in. New York and he's this really important. egyptologist and I really wanted to talk. to him is the only way I could get him. to do it was do it through Skype so I. did one I prefer to sit there with. people because I want to look at them I. want to feel their energy I want to I. feel like you and I doing this. conversation you get to understand each. other totally no I get it and I and I. think I can hear it in your podcast too. and I think that uh you know and again. I'm not going to keep hitting the. biology part but there's to me I think.

that there it mean I can sense that. there's a something else in me is. getting is triggered right if we were. just talking on the phone there is. something um and it's might be this. other part of your brain but it's lit up. right now right because I can I can. spatially you know see and feel where. you are we we can you know have eye. contact and all of that all that yeah. and it's it's sense of connection it's. that real um I think and I think that is.

you know really apparent in your podcast. is that you yeah you sit here and you. really connect to somebody and just run. with it and I think that's uh it's a big. it's a big thing man I mean I mean I I. think of. like um so part part of what I do is is. I help um proliferate this idea of men's. groups across the country where guys get. together for exactly what we're talking. about it's just like you know the the. intent of them is to um get together to. challenge and support each other's.

growth or personal growth you know and. it's just a simple sort of protocol and. a simple sort of um uh design or or sort. of it's there's a structure to it but. the whole point is it's remedial in a. sense it's that you know our culture in. general but guys especially in our. culture don't have um this this. unfettered place to show up and actually. connect with each other and it's a scary. thing I mean it's a it's it's um you.

know it's until now and still now but. hopefully not too long I really like. that stigma of not being connected is um. it's a big deal and and I think that. back to the Cyber thing that you're. saying like we can we can get that hit. of Serotonin by getting a like on. Facebook or Instagram or whatever we can. get that but that pale I mean I don't. even want to make a comparison toward. actually sitting sitting down with. somebody and actually feeling and and.

experiencing them yeah it's you can't. make a comparison no it's not okay to me. it's I don't yeah it's just so different. I'm in a tricky position because I rely. on social media to let people know that. I have a podcast coming out you know. like right before the podcast I was like. what's your Twitter so I could tweet it. yeah and then I also like to promote. comedy dates and to let people know. about cool [ __ ] that I find but the the. interaction is so it's so weird like. especi there's like a bunch of different.

kinds of interaction like Instagram is. one of the weird ones because the CEST. people all have blocked Pages oh yeah. it's like they're blocking don't look at. me and they just say nasty [ __ ] to. people but they have these blocked Pages. it's like but I think that that's it's. so funny how that seems to be like it's. so common but it makes sense it's like. they're blocked off and they're. attacking people and saying shitty. things to people and I'm not even. talking about to me I'm talking about. like when I go to someone else's page. and I read CUNY things I always go to.

that I go let's see if that guy's. blocked yep he's blocked how funny like. it's super common it's like this weird. thing that people are doing with each. other which not real interaction and I. feel like the people that are. perpetrating it are extremely unhealthy. which is why they're saying such nasty. vicious [ __ ] in the first place it's. really really odd they're lonely yeah no. I mean in some way or disconnected or. disenfranchised or they feel inferior.

and so they lash out they want other. people to feel the way they feel and so. one what I feel when you say that like. one thing that's missing there is. empathy yeah in in that in that intera. whatever that interaction is yeah it's. this removed story that you're making up. some some like whatever you want the. world to you know you're projecting your. [ __ ] out into the world you're not. actually slowing down enough to you know. you you can sit here and Give opinions. or whatever all day long but you know. the no but to what you said though it is. a weird position but I think the way.

that things are going so we we are using. these tools the social media to connect. us and to get messages out but you know. the way that the like the millennial. generation is going is that what they. value and what they want to spend their. money on is Meaningful experiences which. means you know generally speaking alive. in person event and I there's a wave of. things going back to this so you know as. a tool we need that I mean this is. amazing you know this this platform this. podcast you have that touching so many. people or just Twitter whatever it is.

but then it can be you know used for. incredible good to bring to people. together I think and then and then so. what's missing in that in that social. media interaction um I don't know maybe. it balances up maybe it doesn't I don't. really know it's a message in a bottle. you just got to make sure it's a good. message you know you're not g to you're. not you have to like be cognizantly. aware I think of how other people going. to receive it without actually getting. that reception back from them you know. it's and that's where it gets real weird.

and you have to like I think apply the. same principles that you would in. communicating with other people like. without actually communicating with. without seeing them without getting the. social cues without looking them in the. eye and we're we're a weird thing man so. this might not make sense but I want to. bring it back to connect to the. Wilderness stuff what we're talking. about and this sense of this sort of. isolation loneliness that we have and. for me in my life where I learned to.

connect with others where I really. learned to sort of give it up let go be. present with people was in the. wilderness it was it was doing that job. out in the desert with kids out there. for 8 to 20 days at a time with these. kids. where that was my job it was my job to. simply be with them and in a way uh to. be with them in a way that was um. you know obviously we had a lot of. boundaries and everything but to be. really real just to be totally real and.

honest and straightforward call [ __ ]. when we saw [ __ ] be empathetic and. it was just like this crazy crash course. in human connection and it happened to. be out in the wilderness but so what I. think I don't know this is this is it'll. tie together but for me I started to. feel way way way more human being out. there in the wilderness like just being. out there where it was quiet. being out there where like you know if I. sat on a rock I was sitting on a rock.

and the sun was on me and all of my. senses were engaged you know very aware. of my body we were in these groups where. we were being practicing being very. aware of what we felt and being able to. feel and express that and it just felt. like um you know since then for me it. all comes back to to being out in the. wilderness but since then all the other. things I've engaged in meditation the. men's group stuff all the other person. even psychedelics things like that all. the things that I've experienced All For. Me Tie back to that thing and it it.

comes down to what I feel is like being. totally as much as you can truly present. yeah like just just here right and you. can write a Twitter message from that. place of being present right that's F I. mean there's there's nothing necessarily. wrong or bad about that but um but don't. check the responses every 3 minutes for. the next 6 hours like a [ __ ] Maniac. yeah yeah it's a it's a matter of I. guess rationing rationing some of the.

some of that Social Media stuff or. rationing some of that online. interaction with other people I feel. like as time has gone on I've I've. gotten much more of my online. interaction in like an educational form. in terms of like interesting articles. science things things that don't involve. like social interaction or opinion as. much as they involve really fascinating. facts yeah like um something that I. found today they think that North.

America might have been settled by. humans as much as a 100,000 years. earlier than they thought I saw that did. you see that yeah I did yeah it's insane. like that kind of [ __ ] freaks me out I. love that kind of stuff cuz that that. kind of stuff is just pure curiosity and. pure wonder and and the imagination goes. wild thinking about what it must have. been like to be one these early humans. yeah surviving or trying to survive and. if they didn't we wouldn't be here and.

these these uh mdon fossils they found. them the bones were shattered and. there's rocks nearby that do not seem. like they were brought anywhere so it. was 1992 they were doing Highway. construction near San Diego and they. found these oddl looking bones and then. they started doing these um studies on. them and then they found they're. mastedon bones and they didn't have the. ability to do carbon testing and get a. real accurate assessment back then and. so but now they do and so now when.

they're checking these bones and the way. these bones had been shattered they're. pretty sure that they had been shattered. purposely like to get to the marrow wow. yeah so that yeah that's a great example. of uh a positive benefit. yesterday I uh I I meditated for about. 80 minutes or so and then I and I I sat. up afterwards and I clicked on my phone. and opened Facebook and the first thing. I clicked on was say. was a video of a woman in slow motion. who stuck her ass out the window of a. bus and just shat the stream.

[Music]. [ __ ] and I just I just laugh I had to. laugh to myself man I was just like in. this Zone you know I was in this. beautiful place and then open Watch was. like oh my God it reminded me of K's one. joke that [ __ ] out of the car 80. miles an hour a YouTube video I think. yeah I've definitely seen too many of. those videos I've seen too many videos. of people getting beat up too too many. PE videos of street fights too many. videos of people like skateboard. accidents where they [ __ ] flip and.

fall in their head it's hard to not. watch that though right very hard very. hard. very it's very hard I mean I feel like. there's something to be learned in those. videos like I almost want to show my. kids hey don't try to do flips if you. don't know what you're doing you land on. your [ __ ] head but you know I mean. understanding the consequences and. having someone else do it so you can. learn from them they've already done it. so here learn this is what this is why. you don't [ __ ] with a tiger see look the.

guy got killed by the tiger now you know. this is why you don't do this this why. you don't do that like there's got to be. some educational value in those I guess. H yeah I'm sure that seems like a reach. a little bit it's a little bit of reach. yeah I mean we have some pretty strong. instincts in us to that say don't [ __ ]. with it I know but dumb kids man it's. like it's almost like dumb kids are. there as Educational Tools for the. Survivor. it's like you're supposed to see that. one kid poke the tiger and get mauled.

and you're like [ __ ] I can't believe he. actually broke into the zoo now Bobby's. gone yeah you know like Bobby like I. mean that's the Joseph Campbell uh story. of the hero that it goes all the way. back to the one person who sacrificed. their life yeah and got killed by the. predator in front of the tribe and so. that the tribe could survive and that. they they worship that person for doing. that yeah yeah the the hero goes off. BRS it back to the community and. everybody's better for it yeah or you. watch the hero get mauled and he's a.

martyr and then you escape while the. hyenas are eating him one of the things. we taught or we worked with kids out in. the woods was uh we called it natural. consequences right which which just. means that when you do something. something else happens there is a. natural reaction and it was used a lot. of times um in uh opposition or instead. of of like a penalty system right so if. you do something bad we could we could. lay this punishment on top of you like.

what kind of stuff I mean well so for. example if um if somebody was going to. harm themselves or somebody else you got. tarped you you got we put out a tarp and. uh your shoes and everything would be. taken away from you and you couldn't. leave the tarp like that that was where. you had to stay because you couldn't. hurt yourself you couldn't hurt anybody. else wow um so that was you know and. some of that you with their shoes ate. them no where you where'd you put them. in your tent or under your tar or so.

they had to stay like under tarp is that. the idea or uh if it was raining yeah. but no I mean otherwise it's just it was. just basically a timeout you know you. know you got to stay here you can't. interact with a group you're by yourself. whatever uh that's actually not the best. example but I'll just use so if you. swore you could some programs would you. know maybe have a point system you get. penalized 10 points. yeah yeah I mean that wasn't that seems. so silly yeah it wasn't really upheld.

I'm I'm reaching for a good example here. what I'm trying to say is that if you do. something shitty generally you hurt. others around you and things things. happen and so what we tried to show is. that if if kids would do something. shitty to uh pay attention and and that. they would see the harm they're creating. themselves by by harming other people. rather than just like you know. um in society just locking a kid up for. you know breaking the law. um it would be you know maybe if you. break a window you in in this other way.

you would go and um actually see and. experience the the the [ __ ] that other. people had to do to fix the window and. and do all you know more of a reparative. type of justice system rather than like. a a penalty punitive punitive that's. yeah right so when you did take these. kids like what was like the most extreme. example if someone is like really. disturbed because I would imagine there. would be like a big sort of uh like. there was a lot of variables like some. people would be kind of [ __ ] up and. some people would be really [ __ ] up.

it's probably a spectrum right oh. absolutely generally speaking very few. were I would say actually [ __ ] up very. very very very very few What were what. was the case with most of them um they. were kids in families and and like. communities that didn't know how to make. space for them and deal with them they. didn't have mentors they didn't have uh. people to they didn't have parents that. that gave them the right direction I. don't know you know like being a kid is. is uh you're supposed to test boundaries. right it's it's like that's the part of.

your development in your ontogeny that. it's like you are defining your. personality you're defining who you are. and you need to test the boundaries and. um you know some of the kids made uh. only two I probably worked with at least. a thousand maybe more kids Al together. uh maybe that's a stretch a lot right. for a lot for a long time and only one I. went to bed at night worried I might get. my head kicked in really just one one. kid and um maybe one or two other kids.

that I walked away actually not enjoying. being around them almost every other. single one it was just. like walked away what did you do about. the one that you worried about getting. your head kicked in you know just kind. of just kind of sat with it there's. really nothing do you know J did it was. it just like initially or through the. entire experience that was through the. whole thing Jee that was through the. whole thing that was uncomfortable [ __ ]. that what happened to him oh he's dead. now no I have no idea you know there's.

there's I mean there's laws and there's. things you don't generally get to stay. in touch this was actually at a a a. state program so this was a um in Li of. a jail sentence they came out so so this. kid was locked up um wow what did he do. I don't remember I don't know probably. stole a car or beat somebody up or I I. don't know he was just super aggressive. he wasn't no but he had that he had the. I had the feeling that he had no empathy.

for others pain right and he couldn't. feel that that's the that's the only. time it ever got any interaction with. any of those kids ever got you know that. that sent chills through me you know. that was like and maybe maybe I didn't. feel in any practical sense that he was. going to hurt me but I had the sense. that if he did he wouldn't care right oh. wow because there wasn't that connection. the same thing we're talking about in a. sense it's like that's the thing get. dropped in a in a group of eight boys or. young men and um it was so funny like.

you could you know we worked with. therapists with therapists come and all. that stuff but all like the fundamental. thing I took away from that experience. was that in order for these for these. guys to grow up and sort of move on and. get going in their lives you know what. they needed was just somebody like me to. just to just to show up like really not. complicated right yeah and and so just. let them air things out and talk about. better ways to do things and sort of get. some perspective now you know we maybe.

talked about this last time but then. they'd go home and not necessarily have. that support anymore and be back in. their old. uh Arena where where um you know their. old friends and their old family Dynamic. and all that and it and it you know it's. hard it's it's a hard way and so I left. that whole experience just feeling very. strongly that a we can as a community. and Society do just way better with some. simple simple changes we we can do. better at raising our boys we just can.

cuz I've done it when you have someone. that has no empathy though what can be. done to instill empathy in someone who. lacks it if anything so I don't know you. know if you go on that far end of the. spectrum where there's nothing I don't. know and I don't know if that's possible. but I do know that it's a muscle we can. practice empathy is something that we. can get better at and that we can pay. more attention to find a [ __ ] up young. kid without empathy like how what what.

sort of motivation do they have to gain. empathy if they feel like no one has. shown it towards them or I don't know. what so that's that's it that's it right. so the motivation that you I believe you. could show is for them to if they could. let you caring about them really in if. they could really feel cared about. and what's incredibly sad but real is. that I think some people you know grow. up in in a their brains develop they.

develop as humans where they don't have. that and so the actual wiring the actual. state to to to receive that isn't there. I think that that is possible to gain. and you know there's been what is that a. child called it you know have you heard. of that book yeah yeah I mean I think. it's possible in the much in the less. extreme cases um I mean in a sense that. that's kind of a lot of what I do is. help uh guys become more.

empathetic and the not just for the. benefit of others right for the benefit. of themselves the reason why I brought. this up there's a podcast um on Radio. Lab about Bernie maid off okay and um. where this guy contacted Bernie maid off. he sent him letters and then finally. Bernie mov called him and they did this. interview together where the way it. works in prison I guess at least the. prison where Bernie maid off is you get.

15 minutes to talk on the phone and then. you have to wait 15 minutes before you. could talk again and then 15 minutes. again and so they This Is How They did. the interview like 15 minutes on 15. minutes off and after a while he sort of. gained his trust and he went deep into. how this whole deception started and how. Bernie made off if you don't know the. whole story Bernie made off is the guy. who had this gigantic Ponzi scheme and. stole billions of dollars from people. and it's called Ponzi Supernova is the.

Radio Lab episode wow and uh one of the. things that was the most chilling was. how little empathy he had towards the. people that he ripped off right whose. lives had been destroyed his son. committed suicide um uh people like. literally went from having all of this. money to being so broke they were like. dumpster diving he didn't care he didn't. give a [ __ ] yeah I mean he he he had no. empathy and he's a monster I mean it's. it's re it's really interesting to see.

like this guy's reaction to Bernie maid. off's lack of empathy and realizing. somewhere along the line like oh this. guy does not care that was one of the. things that the investigators had said. about him that it didn't seem to bother. him at all that he had done this to. these people that what what bothered him. was that he had gotten caught mhm but it. didn't bother him that these people had. been devastated what bothered him was. like that people had made money weren't. giving that money back like he called. one guy and told him the guy made like9.

billion he was worth $9 billion rather 7. billion of it had come from Bernie maid. off's Ponzi scheme and he told him he. had to give that $7 billion back the guy. had a heart attack drowned in his pool. oh my God which is kind of hilarious cuz. like you can't live with two billion. yeah I guess well maybe it's not liquid. maybe he couldn't give back the 7. billion maybe it was impossible was tied. up in real estate and holdings and this. and that and the other thing but isn't. amazing that one person's reality could.

I just I would love to step into his. head for a second W you that Bernie made. up just to see what it felt like I think. that'd be very helpful to be able to. step into that because just to see right. I can't picture it I just can't picture. it well I could also couldn't picture. not being able to live with2 billion. doar either like what what is it I it's. that that weirdness of the game right is. like you score 100 points you want to. score a th000 points score a thousand. you want to score a million score a. million you want to score a billion it's. like you never stop and people never.

they never achieve peace like that's. what I always used to say about Bill. Gates like why the [ __ ] is Bill Gates. still working you hear about him being. the richest and now he's not I mean he. really did sort of find some sort of a. balance and now almost all of his work. is done towards humanitarian efforts. he's you know donates a lot of money a. lot of Charities a I mean a lot of. really good work like post his Microsoft. career which is like really kind of. unique that a guy sort of found his way.

found his kept a shitload of money yeah. don't get me wrong yeah you know. apparently he's got some stupid [ __ ]. house with a submarine in in the Pacific. Northwest where like if someone tries to. break into his house you can [ __ ]. Escape in a summary and I kayaked by his. house once actually did you did they let. you do Secret Service [ __ ] swarm you. and ask you where you're going yeah. nobody I couldn't see anybody they're. probably all the Tre are you allowed to. just walk by his house how's that work. well it was a private island at least. the place that I was at I was just told. by the guy I was with we were actually.

throwing crab pots out of a kayak and um. I was just told it was his like house I. don't know if it was main house might. have been one of his houses but uh we. were you know I don't know 50 yards off. the shore and it was a private island a. private island that's when you're. balling you got your own Island you know. has an island Tyler Perry the guy that. makes those shitty movies and TV shows. those awful shows Tyler Perry yeah he. has a private island he has a private. island where I don't know you can't know. if you don't I actually feel uh some.

sadness for Bernie made off really oh. yeah man I mean that's I don't know he's. as tortured as you know I think it's. harder to feel empathy for him but he's. as tortured of a human as I don't know. pick anybody maybe right yeah maybe. maybe not I yeah I'm I'm project I don't. know that's a fact but I don't know if. you if you're hurting that many people. are you are you kidding me like you. aren't feeling you aren't feeling all. right yeah you know it's a it's a weird.

line like when do you feel bad for. someone do you feel bad for Jeffrey dmer. like how did he become that cannibal. murderer guy how did how did that happen. you know like what what causes someone. to go from like you have a boy what. causes someone to go from your cute. little baby boy to being some monster. yeah like how does that what is it about. people that makes it. possible for someone to go even not to a. monster but how about that young boy. that you were working with that had no.

empathy that you worried about sleeping. near like who what happens like the. developmental process of a human being. is way more fascinating to me uh as an. adult with children than it was when I. was a young man when I was a young man. and I was single and I didn't have any. kids I just thought people were [ __ ]. up and some people weren't right people. that are [ __ ] up [ __ ] them and death. penalty and like kick their ass and I've. been obsessed with this all my life it's. been absolutely like what what is this. process of growing have you ever heard. of the novel sidartha no by Herman Hess.

Hessa I'm not sure how to say that but. it's a a classic novel an author from. Germany and and it it uh Chronicles the. life of a young guy named sidartha but. the whole book what it is is it goes. through his entire life from when he was. born until he dies and in it are these. like very specific stages of life so. he's you know his like young wandering. years and then. um he needs to work so he goes to a city. and and he learns from a from a traiter. and then he needs to learn about love so.

he so he gets with a prostitute but but. all in these big stages and that book. did something to me at an early age I. just got obsessed with this process of. maturing and there's a there's a term. for it called ontogeny which is the the. process of an organism's growth over. their lifespan it's just this natural. sort of like a tree the ontogeny of a. tree is it is a um you know a seed that. drops and then it sprouts and then it. roots and then it grows and then it dies. and and it is yeah it's been an.

obsession of mine and you know getting. thrown into that work of working with. kids and yeah it's it's. um I'm I'm so fascinated by it and I. don't have obviously any you know solid. here's how it goes but but I've been. looking into it for you know a long time. and um I just I think that oh anyway. back to the book The I used to read that. book out loud to these groups of kids I. was working we'd sit around the fire at. night and I'd read a no you it' be out.

there for days so you have time to read. a novel out loud and uh you know it's. just something poetic not about just the. words but about watching the life. someone's life unfold as a whole story. and watching them you. know I don't know grow up yeah it's just. it's this weird fasc.

[ __ ] thing at a distance from you right. you can you can like kind of address it. you can sort of I don't know act out. against it but unless.

you actually feel I mean think about and. this this gets into things like uh. trauma and resilience and how people are. able to move on from hardship right and. and a lot of the the research um there's. a uh psychiatrist called Bessel Vander. Coke never heard of him no fascinating. dude he's uh he started working with the. VA in Boston and uh worked with return. vets. from um from uh Vietnam and then did.

this whole uh lifetime of study about. trauma and how it comes into humans and. how you can move through it and how you. can heal it and all this stuff and um. it it just it basically comes down to uh. being able like to be more resilient to. be able to get over things so say death. in the family or an attack or an ass. salt or whatever whatever that trauma. could be that if you don't allow the.

body and the your system to actually go. through feel and process what's going on. you you lock it up you lock it up you. you like it uh and it it doesn't I mean. it's almost like it gets implanted in. you somewhere and then it just like this. fers veers and it's and the cool thing. is is that the you know that the science. now is is showing the the very specifics. of this it's not just I mean it's still. Theory right but it's um so I feel like.

I got off what we were talking about. there. um but yeah I I feel. like like you said being able to. overcome things of course absolutely and. part of that is just to me um again. speaking more from a male perspective. here but part of that and I think a lot. of what our culture says is okay is. Let's uh horse our way through this. right let's force a let's push harder. let's let's conquer our fears and our. feelings let's let's not address it.

let's just push right run through the. wall basically or take. anti-depressants it well right so that's. that's the thing then there's this other. whole way to to get through hardship. which is by actually surrendering to it. and letting your this like brilliant. system that we have as humans to process. it and and get through it right and and. that's that's a way to wholeness and and. health some ways I think they're both. important I mean like yeah you need to. be able to uh you know ignore the pain.

and and power your way up that mountain. or or save somebody that's getting hurt. or whatever and then there's this other. part I think that needs to be in Balance. which is um accepting what's happening. and getting through I I yeah just a way. to accept what's happening and let your. body do what it needs to do well I also. think there's an extreme lack of. discipline that a lot of people have and. that discipline a lot of it comes comes. from overcoming difficult obstacles and. understanding the work that's required. to get things done making these little.

Leaps and Bounds making these. improvements in your life getting better. at things I think those things are. really critical to the human mind yeah I. think the mind has desires and one of. the big desires is it has a desire for. improvement and a desire to achieve. goals and there's a lot of people that. these goals are laid out by other people. these goals are like graduating from. third grade graduating from fourth grade. a lot [ __ ] that you don't want to do so. these goals are meaningless to you so. you never feel like you've accomplished. anything that you actually want to do.

and next thing you know what you're a. 35-year old man working for an insurance. company you don't want to be there and. you don't have any real part of you that. you've nurtured you've just sort of. plugged you into these other weird. shapes and conformed to them and then. you just want to go [ __ ] crazy and. probably bitched about it all the way. along way probably yeah you probably. complained and you're annoying and. you're a whiny little [ __ ] and you're. out there just clogging up the freeway. beeping at people and giving them the. finger I mean that's a lot of humans. that you run into that's a lot of it's a.

lot of this life so yeah and that points. directly to what you know I do and what. I'm building is is that so you take. eight of those guys and you set up a. room and you say all right in this space. right here [ __ ] all that we're going to. be actually honest and say what we're. feeling but maybe can't even really. access so like all that frustration all. that [ __ ] or what whatever it could be. anything that's so hard for people to do. right like what what kind of techniques. do you employ to get someone like say if.

you got some guy who's closed off and. has been bullshitting his way through. life and then all a sudden here he is. this 35-year-old guy that's really. troubled that's in a room with you how. do you get that guy to open up safety. and and leading by example and being. vulnerable by example and when somebody. it's part of this connection like. sitting down with somebody that if you. um after one of these last Retreats one. of the guys came up to me and said. safety is the new iasa which is maybe a. strange thing to say but he said he'd. been all over the world doing drugs.

trying to find growth trying to find. himself and we went went to this Retreat. and all we did was sit down and say okay. Our intention all we're doing what we. actually are doing here is just uh. making this you're not going to be. you're going to be supported you're not. going to be laughed at like like it's a. safe space to do it and then you just uh. you dive in and and lead by example and. that examp example like plugs others. right into it like it's this amazing. like symbiotic thing that happens so.

right and and people. just sometimes break open sometimes. crack slowly open but you know all of a. sudden so maybe after 35 years of only. being other people's program you get in. touch with what you actually feel what. you actually want and who you actually. are it's just like this [ __ ] it's. like holy [ __ ] I think for a lot of. people it's really difficult to try to. do what you actually want to because you. spent so much time rewarding yourself. with material items for these little.

accomplishments that you've you've. become in debt yeah and you really can't. escape the system I mean that's totally. real problem with people they have a car. that they're leasing they have a house. that they're renting or that even worse. that they bought and then they they're. stuck and then they don't know what the. [ __ ] to do they have to keep this. insurance company job and it's just. rotting them out from the inside. totally yeah I mean there's like a whole. society built on on uh trying to keep. you not who you are S I think you know.

but so what we're finding which is. really amazing is that if you stay on. that surface level if you stay on that. sort of um I I don't know like so so. trying to improve. yourself goes so far but it's kind of. like an iceberg thing right so like if. your goal is to make more money right. and and here's your goal and you're. going toward it and and you I don't know. listen to podcast or you do all this. stuff and and you try to figure out how. to do it how do how do I do it how do.

and you keep hitting the wall you keep. getting sort of uh thrown down and you. don't really understand that underneath. meanwhile is this massive sort of like. pent up [ __ ] and if you address that. massive pent up [ __ ] then all of a. sudden getting to that goal is a whole. different story it's a whole different. story it's uh it's it's um it's like. always trimming the like if you need to. get rid of a tree in your yard but all. you do is every day you chop the leaves.

off the leaves off but if you address. that the roots the deeper stuff and um. you know and again there's a stigma. against that especially for dudes right. so there's a like guys don't want to go. to therapy guys don't want to get into. woo woo hippie spiritual [ __ ] or they do. and they're annoying sure right they. don't yeah ex that do want to get into. it right exactly and I mean I don't know. I don't know if I pull this off or not. but I feel fluent in in uh. like you know bro culture and fluent in.

you know like I've I've I've gone down. that spiritual route too and um well you. recognize when the spiritual route is. legitimate when the spiritual route is. like a ruse as well like sometimes even. the spiritual route is just something. that someone has plugged themsel into to. try to find some meaning meanwhile it's. not authentic exactly um well so how are. you doing this if you don't mind me. interrupting like what you when you so. you're you're planning on taking guys. like say say if I'm that 35-year-old guy. that works at insurance company for.

example and I'm just [ __ ] up and I. just I'm going crazy man I need to do. something hey this seems interesting to. me Wilderness therapy what does it mean. Dan doie what does that mean how do I. get involved in this and how how do you. get me out of this run I'm in yeah so. three three things we're offering right. now and um the first is a is the. Wilderness route which is a like a six-. day Expedition and you can sign up pay. some money and go in the woods and. change your life like pretty we'll climb. mountains we'll go fishing we'll um and. all along I'll set up this uh sense of.

safety and this community and this sense. of. uh Brotherhood and how many guys do you. go with you know 10 or 12 for that it's. just you and these 10 people a couple. other leaders and myself couple leaders. right cuz you have to deal with. interpersonal disputes and all the. nonsense you're going to have to most. likely encounter right yeah and so I'm. I'm working with uh guides to just take. care of the logistical stuff so that I. can manage the the group the group stuff. more that's one offering that's that's.

that's a that's kind of our Capstone. offering we're doing weekend Retreats. and we've been doing these for the last. six months and they've been just. catching on fire about 30 guys at a time. uh in a lodge been doing them in the. birkshire so out in the woods a couple. hours from New York City 30 guys there. and uh just set up sort of an intense. weekend experience of uh practicing the. stuff and we'll hike and do Trail work. and all that stuff but more importantly. do the the self you know diving into. yourself with in the presence of other.

guys which is um just you know I've done. therapy I've been in therapy I'm not a. therapist but um and it's been very. helpful like I for if you work with a. good therapist that really is really. good I couldn't recommend it more but. there's something about this these men's. Retreats uh which I totally understand. sound unattractive to a lot of guys I. just like sounds like a lot of butt. [ __ ] yeah of course of course that. that is that is your that is the big. first sort of response right the woods.

huh tell me more oh I can be open in the. woods yeah we we made a uh one of our. advertising videos for it and it just. starts out that a guy uh stands up and. says yeah I heard about a man's Retreat. and I thought the first thing I thought. was this is going to be [ __ ]. awful and so I get it but um I I think. we're getting further enough along where. um the guys that are going through this. are are literally coming back with the. most positive feedback that I could I.

couldn't write the [ __ ] like like. changing their lives and just like. literally um cuz it's you know back to. that thing we're offering a place for. them to uh accept a part of themselves. that's been offline for a long time it's. a big [ __ ] deal it's a really big. deal it's Al probably also a big [ __ ]. deal to just separate from the high for. a little bit. and just be outside of cell phone range. and be in the woods and just take a big. deep breath of fresh air and look around.

at the Wilderness and just realize that. this is this is reality as well and you. you've been plugged into this. civilization reality this this city this. Urban environment which is entirely. unnatural and has only been a real thing. for the past couple hundred years like. literally didn't exist for the gigantic. swath of humanity that that existed. before that yeah I think that swath is. that the right word there not really I. think it does a couple deep things it.

lights up this this um this neurobiology. that that of us as social animals I. think it it goes back to um more of a. tribal sense of living too it's like all. of a sudden you you went from being. isolated lonly to heav 30 dudes who. would honestly [ __ ] do anything for. you in that moment and I got a buddy. a good buddy is a returned Special. Forces um operator he he sits in my. men's group in Boseman with me and uh.

really struggled with coming home and. then found our group and within a month. his life was back on track like like. just killing it man just like kicking. ass and you know I mean there is a. connection between I wouldn't say the. general military but the Special Forces. you know you read books and hear about. the the aspect of Brotherhood and how. they're there for each other you know. this is definitely a very different. venue but the I think the Bond and. connection that that is created out of. it is um and this is you know from from.

his mouth too is. it's he went you know I don't know how. many years several years in the Special. Forces living with in close connection. to guys got thrown home was all of a. sudden isolated and they came into our. group and just had this this uh. closeness again and it just bam just. like back to back to killing on it wow. yeah yeah it's it's I mean I'm very. aware I mean it's I've been scared to.

start speaking about this for years man. I mean it's very uh to me even I look at. advertising for similar men's programs. and thing like that it's just so turned. off I'm like God seems weird I think. people need resets you need some sort of. reset and we've talked about this before. about we've both experienced those. resets through psychedelics yeah or or. through these hunting trips you know. wildness but think people get caught up. in the momentum of their daily existence. and all the requirements of that daily.

existence and they become overwhelming. you know like we were talking about like. the your lease that you have on your car. your mortgage that you have in your. house and the credit card bills that. keep coming in your student loans you. need to eventually get to and blah it's. a [ __ ] overwhelming grind yeah and. sometimes people need something that. removes them entirely from it for a. certain amount of time that allows you. just the fresh air the like not not just. literal fresh air but the metaphorical. fresh air of allowing you to just.

separate from the the all these weird. influences and all this weird energy and. momentum the momentum of you the life. that you've created or that's been. created for you that you're sort of. Trapped in. yeah yeah man I'm I so that reset thing. I. mean I I think I a warning is that if. you start getting a reset I mean from my. own experience I need it pretty. regularly you know so the actually the. biggest uh goal of of this of every man.

the organization I founded is to our. goal is to get a million guys in men's. groups because that is the same and and. it happen so this Last Retreat had 30. guys show up um about 20 of them wanted. to immediately get into a weekly group. to to basically continually and. regularly experience the same thing it's. it's like a hit you know there's a thing. too about men uh in this culture where. there's not a lot of sympathy towards. men that are struggling it seems like.

there's this thought that men are the. patriarchy and we're dominating the. world and we're almost like subhuman. we're responsible for all these issues. so men with issues like oh Cry me a. [ __ ] River what about women with. issues what about trans people with. issues what about gay people with issues. what about black oh Jesus Christ like a. a regular white guy with issues like. your issues are [ __ ] but it doesn't. matter you are who you are you can't. change the fact that you're a white guy. so if you're a white guy with problems. nobody gives a [ __ ] can't they see that.

it all connects though can't they see. that an unhappy white diey makes. everybody else unhappy too what the [ __ ]. man they don't because it it's not. convenient for their narrative The. Narrative is that you're responsible for. all the problems in the world even. though you're just Dan Dodie from. Boseman Montana you know it's no I get. it but it's it's so I mean that's one of. the most powerful so the podcast that. I'm launching is a self improvement. podcast for guys but instead of going to. experts and saying hey you know what's.

the best morning routine that you can do. designing a routine or whatever I'm I'm. talking to regular guys and and asking. them to share you know more vulnerably. than they normally would because that's. what happens in these scenarios is that. we learn from each other just as simple. human [ __ ] beings man we're just like. you know like one guy might share that. he's having trouble with his son for. example with his kid he doesn't know how. to do it and you know like no matter I. don't care like a bunch of other guys.

will say like holy [ __ ] I thought I was. the only one feeling you know and it's. just all of a sudden you and it's back. to this isolation thing you think that. you're we all think we're [ __ ]. special right we all think that we're so. unique and the actual if we actually. took the time to connect with one. another we'd be like oh wow we have a. lot like and just that just that is. enough to uh drastically change. somebody's day what's motivating you to. venture off because you were working for.

0.0 is Big production company they make. yeah you know meater and Anthony. Bourdain's show and all these different. shows what's motivating you to step away. from that and start doing this this is. what I've always wanted to do and this. is what I've been what compels you I. want to help. guys yeah I just and I know that I can. you know even if it's just one guy. whatever it is but working out there. with these kids and seeing all of this.

it just it just left me with the the. deepest deepest um satisfaction. fulfillment satisfaction but also a. sense of purpose it's like and then I. tell you what man I had a I had a boy I. had a son last year and when he came out. and there was something inside me that. said if you don't do if you don't act on. what you know you can. bring if [ __ ] you [ __ ] it like this is. your kid. like like there is um I don't know I'm. I'm also you know I was born a a fairly.

sensitive I could feel I was born a. sensitive kid right I could feel other. people's pain and when I'm you know. working with these kids and now these. men I mean I don't know I want I want. good for people right I want good for. you I want good for my family and I want. good for I don't know I feel connected. and I and I want to do what I can. purpose I just curious about like what I. mean you you have a very promising. career and a lucrative career with 0.0. so for you to leave that it has to be.

like a really compelling sort of a pull. yeah I mean that job in that career was. an amazing wild ride and in uh some ways. felt like a you know a temporary sidebar. from what I'm really meant to do you. know I've been I've been writing for a. long time and. um yeah I I think that uh. whatever this thing is that I'm doing it. it CHS me somehow or I don't know maybe. that's I don't know if that's true or. not but I don't how long can you ignore.

the thing inside you that screams at you. that says you have to do this you have. to do this or you want to do this yeah. well you shouldn't yeah you definitely. shouldn't yeah I mean it's obviously. beneficial and it's obviously something. you're compelled to do and it's. obviously something that you feel like. is very fulfilling so why ignore it so. when do you start this podcast it's out. it's out it's out what's it called it's. called the Everyman podcast the Everyman. podcast y EV v r y m an what about. chicks no [ __ ] off [ __ ] off chicks you.

got your own you got Oprah okay I know I. mean that's a good question I I don't. think it's uh why uh why' you spell it. that way confus the [ __ ] out of people. well because the full one was like a lot. of money or wasn't available the website. it was just a practicality thing okay. yeah EV r y m an was uh not r y so EV y. folks EV Y Man podcast how many episodes. do you have out two now and then yeah. two right now are you doing them every.

week like how you doing it I'm going to. try I'll probably be every two weeks to. start and then um um just got to get in. this swing you're on iTunes the whole. All That Jazz yeah beautiful man yeah. all. right let's wrap it up so uh that's. awesome it's awesome that it's out there. it's awesome that uh people can get a. hold of it I always love talking to you. brother so let's do this again yeah. brother thank you all right appreci it. ladies and gentlemen Everyman podcast uh. we'll be back tomorrow with dadus. Russell see you.

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