Joe Rogan Experience #405 - Steven Pressfield, Aubrey Marcus

I like it doing it this way we should do. it this way more often where we get the. commercials out of the way before the. guests AR otherwise it's annoying The. Joe Rogan Experience Train by day Joe. Rogan podcast by night all day. out we've already been busy without you. people ladies and gentlemen we're here. we're live Aubrey Marcus is here oh look. at that that's my laptop old school. making noise again not old school it's. this week I've done it three times uh. Aubrey Marcus is here my brother uh and.

Mr pressfield thank you sir thank you so. much for being here this is very. exciting for me we tried to do this a. few times I have been giving out your. book for years I found you know that uh. sexy beast John Meyer you know who that. singer is you know that guy is John. Mayer Mayer whatever the [ __ ] his name. is handsome bastard uh I was reading his. Twitter and he said uh a long time ago. something about if you're really into. for Creative types is a great book. called The War of Art and then somebody. else brought it up too so I said all. right let me check out this book and see. what the [ __ ] [ __ ] is going on and it's.

so good I bought a stack of them and I. kept it in my office and when podcast. guests would come over I would I would. go come here you lazy [ __ ] take this. and go right go get something done man. get something done make it happen and. the the inspiration of that book it it. really works man your book like it. inspires me to get more [ __ ] done like. you have unwittingly more or wittingly. knowingly or unknowingly you've like set. an avalanche of creativity loose with.

your book well like I say I brought you. a half a dozen of these jok so you can. give them out to deserving worthy. recipients what like I was one of those. recipients from the from the early days. pre on it days yeah it was before on it. I gave Aubrey coincidence I don't know. man Longo was that was about three years. ago ah yeah yeah I gave it to every. comedian I know that doesn't write new. jokes everyone that I know I bought it. for my family for Christmas after you. gave it to me uh last Christmas well you.

know what it's applicable even like to. non-artists I think it's it's there's a. lot of lessons in that about what you. talk about the the the term resistance. is a great way of describing it because. it sort of names this fog that a lot of. people have gone through this this weird. thing that people have where sometimes I. wake up in the morning and I'll just. I'll get online and then I'll say what. do I have to do today I got to work out. eventually so from between now and when. I work out which do should I go watch TV.

I know the remote is right there and I I. know I really should get something done. I should just sit in my [ __ ] office. close the door and start writing but. there's this weird thing that happens. where all these other options come up. and it's just so easy to just [ __ ] off. let me ask you Joe because I don't. really know about how comedians work. what is the thing that you that. resistance stops you from doing writing. jokes sitting down and writing jokes I. would say writing material is the big. one because it doesn't stop you from. performing performing is really fun you.

know performing as a standup is. something that we all look forward to. and it's it's a great exchange with the. audience this is a great time so that's. not something that anybody resists but. they do resist the writing the solitary. sitting by yourself with your thoughts. you know the going over the ideas and. trying to make them work and trying to. restructure stuff to make it quicker or. have more impact you know sometimes you. sometimes you have to sometimes you go. over a bit and you'll practice it on.

stage and you'll try to work it out on. stage and you'll eventually get there. but really what you need to do is do the. real work sit by yourself in front of a. computer or a notepad whatever you. prefer and actually write you know it's. interesting to me as just an audience. member because when you watch a comic. that's really rolling you figure they're. just winging it it's just coming out of. them you know on the moment but it's not. true is it I mean it's really hard work. behind the scenes doing it there's. actually both um there's definitely a.

lot of hard work behind the scenes but. there's also a lot of wing in it and the. the the when you get good at winging it. it sort of comes. from already having put in the work and. also having your mind free if your mind. is troubled like that's another thing. that's I found uh as as I matured as a. man especially uh over the last like 10. 15 years I realize the less clutter I. have in my life the better my mind works. like there's a is a very valuable thing.

to keep your mind free of [ __ ] so. whether it's people or things you do. that you don't like that you do or. habits that you can't break if you can. get rid of those your whole thing will. work better like your mind will actually. function better it'll function without. the the the the regret of not being able. to take care of whatever it is whether. it's a gambling issue I think I've heard. you describe too when you're in the zone. and doing your best comedy it's like the. comedy goes through you you know you're. just a passenger and that's very much.

how you describe the Muse in in many of. your books yeah that's a very important. stepping outside of the getting out of. the way basically yeah that's a very. important thing that you brought up in. that book and you said it in um sort of. a matter of fact way about what's this. ethereal sort of whimsical topic the. topic of amuse like who but my best. stuff I have no idea where it came from. everything that I've ever written every. time I've ever been on stage I've been a. my at my best I'm like a passenger it's. like the Muse takes you over when you're.

actually on stage do you find Joe over. time when you look back on what you did. a set here or set a year ago that you're. discovering who you are as you go along. yeah sort of you know and sometimes like. where the [ __ ] is that even coming from. you know there's definitely a where did. that come from element that can that can. creep in but yeah if you pay attention. but a lot of comedians don't like to. listen to themselves me included don't. like to but that's also a part of feel.

you feel embarrassed when you see your. stuff it's weird first of all you're. weird if you like it you're some weirdo. like listening to yourself you know some. guy like gets off on hearing his own. voice yeah I'm awesome you know and then. it's also it's like if you're. self-critical which I'm very. self-critical it can be agonizing you. know there's parts of it that you don't. like that just like drive you [ __ ]. crazy but it's a good way to for for uh. creative uh for like structuring acts. it's a really good way to realize what.

bits are working and what bits aren't. working is to listen to them without. having to do them so you can actually. hear them and hear them take place in. front of an audience It's actually an. invaluable resource that a lot of. comedians don't take advantage of for. just the reasons I stated they get. embarrassed or they get weirded out but. there's that thing that you talked about. in your book it's the Muse and the Muse. exists on stage the Muse exists in front. of your keyboard or notepad or whatever. the Muse is some it's some real sh [ __ ]. whatever it is well I'm from the school.

of it being of trying to keep it trying. to demystify it you know and because. it's it is as every day as where do you. get an idea from you know when you're in. the shower you driving on the freeway. where does it come from and the point is. you know to just get out of the way and. let those things come yeah and not. forget them when they do come well what. was interesting about the way you wrote. about it as well is it was very easily. digestible to people because there's. some people that talk about the Muse and.

I just want to smack them I just want to. throw them off cliffs just shut up like. you're killing me with your nonsense. talk there because there's people that. obviously I'm joking but there's people. that go so far into the Whimsical that. it becomes this. self-indulgent uh artistic expression. dance you know it's like this you know. their their their whole thing about the. Muse she comes to me in the night I. leave the window open shall she shall. she grace me with her presence in front.

of my keyboard I await her arrival shut. the [ __ ] up you know Jesus Christ but. what you're being honest about is I. believe a psychological or a mental. state that you're in when creativity. whatever that is works at its best and. by putting it in your non-nonsense terms. and putting it in this really like very. very honest term like the way you the. way you or honest description the way. you describe it is that's what it is. like he nailed it and I think that's.

what John Mayor that's how you say it. mayor that's what John Mayor saw and a. lot John May. expert well you like him are dreamy so. you might as well be oh. sh um so you know whatever it is that. creative people when they read your book. they go that's it this guy nailed it you. know that that's that's very important. what you did was very very awesome I. haven't even read your fiction I've been. privileged to watch some of your movies. that people turned into your fiction but.

I'm just a big fan of your non-fiction. I'm going to have to start reading your. fiction now well I brought a couple here. that I think I think that you'll like. these one is Gates of Fire and the other. is tides of War that sounds like some. manly [ __ ] yeah I read tides of. War what is it about yeah what is it. about um Gates of Fire is about the. Battle of thermopolymerization. of war is also said in that ear it's a.

different a different story about um. alabes. Socrates cool powerful figures from. history it sounds daunting Joe but it's. not trust me no it sounds awesome I'm a. huge fan of History over the last few. years especially but I'm uh a big fan of. uh History Podcast now and we had Greg. PRS here yesterday that schooled us on. Columbus proops is a huge like history. buff especially when he comes to. Columbus and he just he's a brilliant. guy so he's Ratt in off this the history.

of what an [ __ ] Columbus was it's. really embarrassing that there's still a. Columbus Day you know who knew I didn't. know what a bad guyan he was really a. bad guy but um I'm a huge huge fan of. that that stuff of just I just it's so. fascinating to me that there was only a. few hundred years ago that people were. living this. outrageously yeah you know and you got. to read some more of his non-fiction too. I just finished the authentic swing. really cool book especially for writ I. think you know because it really goes.

through his process of writing The. Legend of Bagger Vance and and talking. about that really cool to see you kind. of refine some of those same you know. Concepts and for me as as you were. talking about the Muse and getting. really ethereal for me one thing that. you kind of drove home here is that the. Muse can be that higher part of our self. that we're just tapping into and for me. that's been one of the key things in my. life is finding the ways to tap into. that you know and I have a bunch of. tricks and tools like you know crazy. psychedelic medicine in the jungles of.

South America things like that that help. me get there but really The Muse can be. you know finding that highest part of. yourself that part of yourself that's. tapped into everything else around you. and that kind of quantum soup as you. call it the magic the source of the. universe itself and I thought that was a. really kind of cool way to draw that in. well maybe we'll get Jo to read that and. they'll still I'm sure will yeah I would. love to um the the idea of getting out. of your own way that's a big one how'd. you figure that out I mean probably the. same way you did you know I mean I think. it's the it's anybody that's trying to.

do anything in art or you know film. making painting whatever it is you find. or or sports or golf particularly you. find that the tendency is to try too. hard right you're so you want it so bad. you don't want to screw up you want to. get it right you want to you know not. embarrass yourself and so you wind up. trying trying trying so hard that. nothing comes you know and finally like.

over over time I'm sure this is the same. for everybody you kind of say to. yourself man I just have to lighten up a. little bit because when when good things. happen is when I'm not trying so hard. and in many ways I think that's the. hardest thing of all I mean Aubrey what. you're saying about being in the jungle. you know psychedelic jungle what that's. really all about is not trying it's like. it's like the hardest thing in the world. is to say somebody says to you. relax right or be yourself just be. yourself Joe you know I mean and and yet.

I think as we become more professional. and better at what we're doing when. somebody says to you be yourself you can. you can you know you're not burdened by. these false selves and these things that. uh that you think you ought to be or. what you ought to say or how you ought. to look or what you ought to be you've. kind of gotten rid of those you know. over time deliberately very deliberately. and I certainly have you know I mean. I've very deliberately tried you know.

when I feel myself going that way to. pull back and and let go but and I think. in many ways uh that's what any artist. does as they become a professional at. what they do they learn to kind of get. out of their own way and it's the. hardest thing of all I think and the. people we talk about resistance or the. way people screw themselves up right. that's how they screw themselves up is. they're in they're getting in their own. way right they're listening to their own. [ __ ] they're believing it and and. they're and they're blocked from.

whatever they're trying to do I'm sure. that's with Comics right when they get. on stage and they bomb right that's. what's happening yeah that definitely is. a big part of it the the the what what. what I think you're doing that I think. is really cool is that by living your. life and figuring things out and then. documenting them and sharing them and. sharing them like in a really honest way. we are all providing together what's. basically a direction manual on how to. live your life and avoid a lot of. [ __ ] [ __ ] that most people get. involved with this is right this is the.

stuff they don't teach you in school. exactly because they don't what we're. trying to do now the the the real. problem is there's a the human body and. the human mind is probably the most. complicated vehicle that the world has. ever seen forget about all the rocket. ships and all the the the the the. different things that you have to go. through years and years of school before. they let you [ __ ] with whether it's fa8. fighter jets or helicopters there. there's I watched a friend get his. pilot's license just studying all.

aerodynamics and all these different. things you have to know to take the test. and wins and you don't have to do [ __ ]. to be a person you're just a person I. mean it's way crazier to operate this. thing I mean it has emotions attached to. it it can make other people with its. penis which it's it likes rubbing this. is ridiculous it's a ridiculous animal. and it's a ridiculous sort of a thing to. try to manage with no help and by you. writing this book and people sharing. their their own personal experiences and.

I mean that's one of the things that. young men appreciate the most about old. men is an old man who will tell you what. he did wrong like when I meet young kids. I'm always like dude listen to me I'm. not going to [ __ ] you but don't do. that whatever you do don't do this one. because that one's stupid and of course. nobody listens people do but there's. that that old expression that uh a wise. man learns from the mistakes of others. right a fool makes his own from his own. yeah I thought one of the Concepts that. you brought up that I really like as.

well is that you know it's not so much. learning new things it's remembering. what we've decided to forget upon you. know upon birth you know you come from. if you have that kind of Paradigm of. belief I don't even think you need it. though so let's say you come from Source. some kind of near-perfect knowledge and. then you're born and through whatever. reason you decide all right I'm going to. forget the rules of this game and Alan. Watts talks about it in a really. interesting way of you know if you would. did have omnipotence what would become. interesting well interesting would be to. figure it out all over again because any.

known future is a past you know if it's. a perfectly known future it's already. happened it's happened in your mind it's. happened there so you make this pack to. forget and you forget everything upon. birth and then as you go through life. you try to remember again as much as you. can by tapping into that Eternal part of. ourselves and that's a little bit I. might have gone a little little astray. with what you were saying but there's a. lot of that that you talk about you at. all with uh with the authentic swing it. sounds fairy but isn't you know I mean.

there's the the various myths you know. this thing on our upper lip this little. indentation where does that come from. the myth is that before birth we knew. everything and an angel just before we. were born touched us right there and. nothing came out again or the other. another makes sense that's what we call. an angel in the um we're a bunch of. self-hating [ __ ] in the Greek world. there's a thing that when you were you. had to cross the uh the into the. underworld you had to cross the river. that the Fairman took you across and. when you were born again you had to.

drink of the river the river Lethy l e t. h e and from that where lethargy the. word comes from as soon as you drank of. that you forgot everything it was like. Men In Black when they flashed a little. thing in front of your eyes you know. well that's probably analogous to. psychedelic experiences because uh. certain psychedelics especially DMT. there's one of one of the aspects of it. is that your memory of it goes away. almost instantly like you have this. incredible trip and then trying to. remember it is like really and one of. the ways you remember it is actually you.

remember the way you described it before. you don't necessarily even remember the. experience itself which is one of the. most incredible experiences of your life. but there's some mechanism that's. erasing that memory in the human mind. and it's the same one interesting one. that works on Dreams yeah dreams you. forget dreams like that right so and. there's a way to help um retain some of. that one of the things that we sell is a. a supplement called Alpha Brain it's a. neut Tropic and neut Tropics are. essentially vitamins and nutrients that. have been shown to have a positive. benefit on cognitive function and this.

Alpha Brain stuff one of the things that. it works great on is lucid dreaming they. found that people that are practitioners. of lucid dreaming this this interesting. combination of nutrients you can control. your dream as it's yeah apparently they. say that what they can do that lucid. dreamers say that what they can do is. when they get in a dream then it's like. they're the people that are really good. at it they they're basically in a movie. they they can fly they're one of the. Avengers they're fighting off aliens. they control the entire show it sounds. amazing it seems like something I should.

probably look into but um what for. whatever reason I hav't been drawn to it. yeah there's definitely resistance on. that because it's a really fascinating. idea I've had lucid dreams and the ones. that I had once I started [ __ ] around. with New Tropics they got a lot stronger. um choline there's which is one of the. um ingredients and uh Alpha Brain and. one of one of the big uh neut Tropics. that seems to have an effect as does uh.

parasom and is that how you say it parum. and uh a lot of those are still working. on the acetylcholine mechanism which is. kind of controls the RM State and that's. your dream state so wow you guys are. into this deeply huh yeah it it has an. effect we like messing with our minds. different way in a healthy way once you. find out that there's stuff that. actually allows you to think a little. crisper you know I started looking into. it many years back because um I read. about Bill Romanowski who's a football. player right who's getting a lot of. concussion obviously when he was playing. football and then he was having issues.

afterwards and he developed this. supplement called neuro one and that's. his supplement it's you added to water. and it's you know this interesting. mixture of thing and I I took it I was. like wow this is kind of crazy like this. is really having some sort of an effect. but the the point being that that's the. only thing that I've ever found that can. counteract that sort of legendary thing. of erasing the memory of the Fantastic. event because that's a theme the erasing. the memory of the Fantastic event the. erasing the memory of the brilliant.

knowledge by the Angels you knew. everything that's what when you're on. DMT you know everything you figured it. all out it's you've got it I got it I. got it I got it you sure you got it I. got it dude I got it woo let me back. down to earth I swear to God I'm a. different person I get. it but that that goes away goes and it. seems like this touch of the the the lip. and the drinking of the water it's. almost like they're trying to put. mythologize this chemical process. process of the mind I think Aldis Huxley.

did a really good job explaining what's. going on we have this cognitive filter. that decides what is useful to not get. eaten by tigers and to procreate the. species and it's like this gate you know. he calls it you know the doors of. perception or cognitive filter and it's. this gate and it only lets in what is. best for the animal to survive and so. anything else outside of that you know. the brain says Ah we don't need this get. rid of this get you know deprioritize. this because this isn't important and so. what psychedelics do what dreams do is. they open up the walls of this filter.

you know you look at the mechanism of. action of something like psilocybin it's. not adding something to your brain it's. actually shutting down certain parts. shutting down the default mode Network. it's called which is one of the. filtering devices in the brain so just. more comes in and if you let more in. more of that stuff from the beyond the. quantum soup as you say you let more of. that in well you can get a little bit. closer to that's cuz you guys are. shutting off your brain like a bunch of. [ __ ] morons what you doing is you. still listen to you over there you're.

taking this [ __ ] mushroom and uh shut. your brain off and you think that's good. you think that's a good thing well. that's what the science is saying what. do you think Aubrey about the the idea. that or the theory that when we're. children when we're infants we're seeing. all that it's like an acid if you look. in a kid's eyes right they're not the. same as our eyes you know when they're. looking at the room God knows what. they're seeing but it's not what we're. seeing and that the process of um. growing a little bit older is a kind of.

a throttling of that aperture right a. closing of that building the walls every. every year that we live we build more. and more filters more and more and we. accelerate whatever we do you know we're. trying to push for a promotion at work. so we're putting in extra hours and I. got to bring home some of my projects. and you know your kids are growing older. and you know they're in daycare and you. don't see them and but you got to you. know eventually we're going to get that. vacation house and then everything's. going to come together when and we. complicate our lives deeper and deeper. and deeper as we get older almost as if. to avoid silence you know we claim to.

all be looking for it but we just we're. [ __ ] avoiding it at all cost you feel. so much lighter after like a flotation. tank experience it's just like you can. peel off some of these layers and. recover just a fragment of those child's. eyes that kind of light-hearted sense of. the soul in a way to me this is sort of. what uh the producing art is about you. know you sit well like for instance. these two books that I talking about. here Gates fire and tides of War at some. point I uh it's a long story but um I.

had to come up with an idea for a book. and so I wrote Gates of Fire which was. about ancient Greece and next thing I. knew I had done five books about ancient. Greece I had never in my life thought. about that wow I had no it wasn't like I. was obsessed with it or anything I. didn't know anything about it but. something sort of pulled me into it and. kept me going so I think in a way that's. the if you're painting or you're making. a film you're discovering what you.

already know right and it's it's like it. was in you but you didn't know it was in. you and you don't know it's in you until. you see it on the page or it's on a song. or something like that and what's what's. kind of weird to me here I've I've. written like whatever five or six books. about ancient Greece but yet I'm not. remotely interested in ancient Rome I. just don't give a [ __ ] you know it's not. so why is it a previous life life what. is it some people love the Civil War.

they love you know ancient Ireland. whatever right all nobody wants to play. the North and the Civil War re they're. always playing the South but it's like. why are we drawn to whatever it is we're. drawn there's a reason it's not just. nothing yeah um I don't know about that. it might be a com the incredible. combination of your genetics your life. experiences Your Atmosphere your. personal experiences that you've sort of. developed your personality around.

there's so many different variables that. could lead you to be really like I love. werewolves what the [ __ ] is what the. [ __ ] is that all about I got a yeah I. got a 4 foot tall werewolf in my Lobby. it doesn't make any sense like what's. wrong with me I don't know I don't give. a [ __ ] about the mummy you know I'm not. scared of Frankenstein you know that's. not really it's just a guy who crazier. about that Joe is that there is no such. thing as a werewolf exactly so stupid so. it's not like I could see being obsessed. with Wolves but werewolf so there so. that tells me that on some level there.

is such a thing as a werewolf really it. tells me I'm a [ __ ] at least well. you're not you're not alone CU there are. a lot of people watching werewolf at. least some archetype that's represented. by the werewolf you know some itch that. that's scratching that's that's a deeper. you know I think there's also we know. that humans vary they vary radically we. vary in our own lives we we're not like. Beatles we essentially move the same way. do there's no explosive weird actions.

humans are constantly varying varying. whether or not you're enjoying the your. interactions with other people or in in. pain because of them varying whether or. not you're in ecstasy because of your. movements or just terribly like stressed. out and stuck in traffic and coming from. a job that sucks to a a marriage that's. [ __ ] poisoning you there's the. variations are massive so because of. that the possibilities of each. individual interaction that you have. with people is crazy so you could run.

into someone that feels like a wild. animal and you know that that's a part. of people and you know that you vary and. that if someone threatens your children. or something [ __ ] does come out of you. that's so Primal that it doesn't even. have a language attached to it the. movements have nothing to do with. morality or ethics or law they have to. do with Primal DNA seeking to stay. around seeking to stay alive and that's. a wolf that's a wolf that's what a wolf. is I mean a wolf is Prim if you've ever. had an interaction with an animal a real.

interaction even if it's a [ __ ]. squirrel that wants to kick your ass. scary as [ __ ] because like we were. talking yesterday about baboons and. about how evil baboons are and uh Greg. PRS is saying that they they they'll. Rush women in Africa where you know. they're they're local and they'll Rush. women at the grocery store and just. [ __ ] steal their [ __ ] and look at him. and like you you're looking at a monster. and just because it hasn't decided to. kill you and eat you doesn't mean it's. because it can't it certainly can it's.

much stronger than you it has a face of. a dog it's got a brain of a monkey and. it's stealing your groceries I mean. that's a werewolf that's that's this. this thing of having this interaction. with something that has no law to it and. that it comes out of a person I've seen. that sort of anthropomorphic s of a. thing like we we have this idea that the. wolves are clever like a person as well. because wolves are really [ __ ] smart. and they do a lot of creepy [ __ ] like. they set up people like One wolf will.

come out and actually walk with a fake. limp so that it can like get other uh. other people or Predators close to it. yeah they're creepers man they're really. smart so you're a student of this stuff. Jo Wolves yeah Wolves yeah fascinated by. anything that can kill me perhap youever. done any Vivid dreaming on the subject. of wolves well I've had some uh. nightmares yeah definitely I had one. really weird dream that wasn't a. nightmare wolf and a gorilla right yeah. yeah Wolf the werewolf wolf in a Gilla. were having sex and I was trying to get. out of the room before anybody noticed.

and I was like creeping like around the. edge of the the walls like really slowly. and then someone actually sent me uh a. wolf and a gorilla having sex like they. uh they they put it together in like. this structure but the weirdest dream. that I ever had um it was uh I don't. know if I was a wolf or some sort of an. animal but there was some sort of. another animal next to me you know it's. weird to to try to remember exactly what. it looked like it was like something can. something like canine not a cat and.

we're walking through this rainforest. and water's dripping everywhere and. Waters like hitting my nose and I can. smell [ __ ] that I have never smelled. before and I can smell fear I can smell. this deer and the deer hears sounds like. Game of Thrones the deer Hears A a stick. snap and the deer's fear comes out like. a like a puff of mist and then I wake up. it's a weird it's a weird dream it it. happened a couple of times where I had. this like this glimpse of like an animal.

stalking things and smelling things but. it's most likely just my imagination. with all the things that I've read about. dogss Brandon Stark I wonder I wonder if. there's a like a part of us that's kind. of repressed in the society we live in. now you know like we have to kind of. keep yeah a good amount you know there's. a huge part of us perhaps that we're. keeping under wraps and saying no no no. you can't come out and play you can't. come out and play that kind of savage. beast of the animal that's inside of us. that not many of us get to explore at.

all or release at all you know back many. years ago as you know in these Tales. there was opportunity for almost every. adult male to enter this hand toand. combat where you could unleash this. whatever Beast was inside of you you got. to let it out and perhaps they didn't. really care that much about werewolves. at that point because they got to itch. that scratch directly the sword so do. you think that there's something you. know if you're going to diagnose the the. male species in particular and then. probably another one for the female.

that's kind of we're struggling with. because we don't have that outlet in our. society where absolutely I mean I think. and that uh I was just I'm just reading. a book about the. commandes you know and whatever it was. 1860 in Texas and the incredible horror. that these cruelty and and and also. incredible endurance cleverness. cunningness rapaciousness you know that. they ex exhibited and that's like 150.

years ago it is so far gone the world. that we live to drive in a Santa Monica. get a caramel machiato you know come. back whatever you do right and I mean I. can see just sitting here in this room. with the four guys there's tremendous. testosterone hanging around in this room. I feel like I want to put an M4 in. everybody's hand until you go out you. know start killing people and you'll be. not here of course but I think it's and. I really think you see this dark side to.

me everywhere in marriages in you know. kids to parents in the dysfunction of. the government look at the government. now with this shutdown and all this. stuff you can't tell me that that's not. some kind of force. that found expression a few hundred. years ago and doesn't find expression. anymore right so you know Norman maor. had this idea years ago that. to help stop crime he had this idea of.

an adventurer core have you ever heard. about this one of his deals was you know. the old um Wind Jammer ships that like. uh would require a crew of 150 to go up. in the sails and sail around capehorn. and it was like you know Adventure wild. he had an idea to have like a hundred of. these ships and just get young. testosterone crazed kids out of the bad. environments that they were in and get. them you know you know facing real [ __ ]. out there in the real world and he.

thought that you know that would be very. interesting for them and for everybody. and I think there's a lot to that why do. people join the Army now why do they. want to volunteer for Afghanistan. because they care about bringing peace. or the American way well there's also. people don't know what the [ __ ] to do. there's also that it's a job that people. can get in places where there's no jobs. it's a guaranteed living you have family. that's been in the military that's the. people that I know that join the. military it's usually those things. and it's and it's a poor a poor. substitute for right passage too you.

know another because I have a lot of. people that read my books or in the. military you know and they write to me. and da da and I can tell you that uh. they respond to the concept of a code of. honor the concept of the warrior ethos. and in fact what's frustrating to them. about the military unless they're in. really elite units is that they don't. get that it's just the [ __ ] of you. know whatever it is and they're not. called on to really perform at the high.

high level that they know they wish they. could and you guys are into that with. your supplementation and the stuff that. you do you're trying to get to some. level that's you know beyond absolutely. yeah I think the summarize what we're. saying here is that the problem with the. world is weak [ __ ] there's a lot of. dudes out there that are weak [ __ ]. and we all could have been a weak [ __ ]. or could have been at one point in our. lives a weak [ __ ] and that's that the. the lack of discipline the lack of. quality character that's the one thing.

that we find like most distasteful in. other people when you see some weasly. guy that's going to sell his friends. down the river I remember I was watching. punked once and uh we don't have to say. anybody's name but uh somebody got. punked and they they sold their friends. out to this fake FBI guy and uh and I. watched that I go that guy is a [ __ ]. and like to this day if I ever see that. guy I don't say hi to him I avoid him. I'm like that's a weasly dude that's a. weak [ __ ] violated the code of honor. just there's no character there there's.

no like what you're supposed to do the. the the FB if it's a [ __ ] card game. okay what's the worst thing that's going. to happen to you you dummy the FBI comes. and they you know they tell you they're. they're they're storm you go what I got. to talk to my lawyer I don't know what. the [ __ ] you're saying right now I'm. talking to my lawyer like I'm done we're. done talking soon as you say you're the. FBI and you're breaking up a card game. I'm like what yeah okay take care good. luck with that I don't know what you're. talking about I'm not going to give up. my [ __ ] friends like a [ __ ] but. those people that do do that they're. scary they're creepers they're around us.

all the time and that that comes from a. lack of doing the work it comes from a. lack of self uh self analysis objective. thinking comes from a lack of uh. meditation comes from a lack of being. actually aware of the the true nature of. your actions the true nature of your. behavior let me change the subject. slightly although it's not really. changing the subject but to ask you a. question Joe okay why did you start this. podcast and what is your intention your.

long-term intention here there's zero. zero long-term and this this is one of. those things that sort of made itself um. we knew of a few friends that had a. podcast that they did um my friend. Anthony kumia who's on the show OPI and. Anthony he has a a basement in his house. where he set up a full studio with HD. professional cameras and a green screen. and he like he'll put like space behind. him or New York City behind him it's. amazing it's really cool which by the. way we're going to get one of those. things it's called a tricer and my.

friend Justin who was in the other day. he uses him for his uh the action report. um but he did it and it looked cool. looked like fun he would just have a. couple drinks with his buddies and do. karaoke while holding a machine gun he's. he's [ __ ] crazy but so Brian and I. started it it'll be four years ago. December uh yeah it was just no. Christmas that's crazy Christmas yeah I. just got have a plan did you sit down. and say we want to do do this or you. just no Brian's we were we were looking.

for something to do like to to for Joe's. fans cuz Joe had so many fans and we. wouldd make these videos and that they. were nice but they it was so hard to. edit all this video and it only came out. once a month so we were kind of looking. for something that so Joe could interact. with his fans faster for someone who's. on the outside looking at the podcast. because you guys are right in it and. I've obviously been a part of it I think. what what has happened there is Joe is. one of the best examples I've ever seen. of somebody living his authentic self. like I have in all of my travels and. Journeys everywhere have I ever met a.

person who I could count on to be 100%. Joe [ __ ] Rogan you know himself. always at you know at any point in time. and so I think even without a plan his. authentic self what he was bringing. what's inside his heart and his Spirit. was going to play out on this stage. regardless he couldn't help it you know. he couldn't strategize or plan what was. going to be he could just be himself and. do the the podcast and then here you go. here it is here's the manifestation and.

that in itself was you know in lie of a. plan I mean I see I'm I could tell it. sort of embarrasses you Joe for me to. ask you this stuff but bear with me. because it certainly seems I'm from the. outside coming here it certainly seems. like in a way you're you're a teacher. and this environment here has definitely. has to do with. maleness right so it seems to me like. asking the question he was on by the way. you know you're you're joking about that. but you are um they need it bunch of.

weak [ __ ] out there well there it is. toughing up. T like Chopper would say hot. [Laughter]. up so you might not have known that when. when you and Brian started this but I. think it was kind of oozing out of your. pores you know it could and that's why. let me ask you this I mean put it a. different way what characteristics do. you look for in guests that you invite. on to the show oh they're so varied um. funny either Joey Diaz type dudes are.

just funny you know I have have friends. that are just funny I just want them to. be funny just we have just laughs and. then there's other people who are very. philosophical there's people that I. don't necessarily even agree with but. they have a very wellth thought out. opinion and I like to explore other. opinions what I think happened is. um because of what I do because I'm a. professional comedian I'm always looking. at things but it's also that. that's who I was anyway and it's just I. found a good job for trying to analyze.

when I was a young boy my parents split. up when I was about 5 years old and uh. it was a really bad breakup with like a. a lot of domestic violence and if I had. to pinpoint a moment that like that part. of my life made me go you know what I. have a feeling that I just been [ __ ] out. into this world that no one knows how. the [ __ ] anything works and everybody. just bumping in a wall ws and as a. 5-year-old I remember looking around cuz.

I just we I just started going to. Catholic school which I realized was. utter horeshit I'm like oh great. religion is not real either and then my. my family's not real like religion is. not real so being like five six years. old I think it made me just start. thinking about things constantly like my. brain is never rested it's very rare. that I can just chill out even when I'm. watching something like I'll have two. things going on in the background like I. I'll start playing games with myself in. the back of my mind it's like it's a a. weird thing like I have there's too many.

things going on in my head at all the. time so because of that like the best. way to exercise that is like to find. something like a podcast where you can. have a conversation with people for. three hours and just sit down and shoot. the [ __ ] about things and then explore. subjects and no one looks at their phone. no one you know no one takes any emails. it's that's a rare thing in this society. today and to be able to do that and to. have that sort of a an environment for.

me is perfect so it's it it it's being a. student as well as being a teacher in a. way it's a you know you're learning. being constantly fascinated and I think. if you're paying attention how can you. not be constantly fascinated the world. is just every day there's a river of. slippery salmon of knowledge and it's. you can't even hold on to it all it's. just too much is coming there's just too. much going on right now and you look at. like the scientific just just on the. side of just astronomy just the new. discoveries that they're showing every.

day where they just found a new planet. it's floating in the middle of nowhere. with no Galaxy it's just floating around. they're like [ __ ] this planet doesn't. even have a solar system it's just. [ __ ] flying through the universe. there's all kinds of stuff that could. fill your day every day with information. and so more than a teacher what I'm is. is a like a portal I'm a portal like I'm. I'm out there looking for it but it's. not me it's me like going hey look you. see that holy [ __ ] and then someone else. goes do you see that and I go [ __ ] you. know it's there's it's a portal thing.

it's and having a voice like having a. podcast it allows people to all like. sink in and your fascination what you. describe is key because that enthusiasm. that you bring to this is really. important there's so many people who are. no longer enthusiastic about anything. the world does no longer hold wonder and. awe and Fascination how's that possible. you know are these people who are these. people where are their socks they have. one sock on they just get numb you know. you get Numb by the world you look at. the world as this dark gray place and it.

kind of Beats on them and it just wears. them down until they can't see that. anymore and then you know seeing that in. someone that they that they look up to. like whoa Joe is really fascinated by. this maybe I think you can kind of. inspire that back in there and you keep. that going just from your natural self. but you also work you know you work at. it too your meditation your flotation. different things that kind of peel off. the weights that can kind of hold you. down and keep those perceptions there. keep that Fascination alive and it's now. you never win you never win it's it's a.

swim it's not a you know it's not a. climb you don't get to the top of the. mountain and plant the flag no you keep. your head above water and you keep. moving [ __ ] and you have to cuz if you. stop you're going to drown and that's. just a fact no matter who you are no. matter what you do if you stop working. on everything if you stop being aware. you stop being like present it'll all go. away and you'll be a [ __ ]. again I think I think we all uh we all. battle with uh you know finding our. Optimum self and uh I think for me um.

having things like the podcast having. things like standup comedy having things. like martial arts there have all been. these Avenues where I can figure out how. to channel my energy to be my Optimum. self like there's a um a quote that I. read when I was a young boy when I was. doing Taekwondo they had like a little. pamphlet they gave out at the school I. got really lucky and I went to this J. Kim Taekwondo Institute in b auson which. like one of the best tawan no schools. Nationwide ever it was a really amazing.

school cuz this one guy who was uh the. the main instructor he was this uh. brilliant guy Jay hun Kim and uh that's. where I got my black belt from and he um. he had he was a a a brilliant guy he had. several degrees outside of being a. martial arts instructor he went to. Harvard graduated from Harvard Business. School was like super smart dude. incredible hard worker but he broke down. martial arts in this this pamphlet that. they would hand out I'll never forget. reading it it said that martial arts are.

a vehicle for developing your human. potential and that stuck in my head when. I was like 14 or 15 whatever I was and. I've carried that with me my whole life. that quote because that's what it is. it's something you can plug yourself. into to feel like find out what you're. capable of and to find out how to. optimally be. yourself and to do battle with your own. resistance on a micro acosmic level you. know and this small you're going to have. so many things Weighing on you the day.

before match all these different voices. and doubts and superstitions and fears. and things that you can battle and try. to overcome so that when when it really. matters in life you get these bigger. challenges ahead you got practice you. know you know how to defeat it you're. like oh I've seen that old Foe and I. slayed him a hundred times yeah what's. great about something like that I think. like martial arts is it's a it's a. structure it's an entire culture that. has uh rules rituals orders and a young.

man or a Boy comes into that with just. this amorphous energy exploding out of. his ear his eyeballs and everything and. suddenly he's given a structure this is. how you learn you start here learn to do. this one move and then when when you've. learned that I'll teach you the next. move and it kind of channels everything. and I think we don't get that in society. these days certainly young men don't get. that you know you go to school it's. basically a kind of a feminized.

environment right other than the. football team or whatever that is which. is again a structure and that's again. that's why people join the Army I think. because they're young guys because. they're desperate for some kind of a. some kind of a way to channel that into. something that means something that kind. of uh provide significance to something. and I think like it or not and most. people I would say not we have caveman. DNA I mean it's just in our system.

period absolutely you either accept that. and manage it or you deny it and go. [ __ ] crazy in traffic and wonder why. you're screaming and sticking your. finger at somebody because their car got. in front of your car like you you find. yourself L lost in the wave of Rage. that's possible too I've seen I I saw. this woman screaming at some woman or. some sort of a traffic thing just going. I'll never forget her face going [ __ ]. you just [ __ ] you I don't know I don't. know what I don't know what happened I.

mean yeah we've all seen that and it's. usually [ __ ] blind when you're just. zero and you see that blind rage it's. here's the other side of that at least. what I was what I was just saying about. um a structured thing like learning. martial arts is something that an. individual can join and there are others. who are also students and there's a. teacher who's teaching them and telling. them what to do but the other side of. that is Art is trying to produce.

whatever it is you're trying to produce. a movie uh a painting a book or. something like that this is where at. least in my opinion you go as an. individual and where there are no rules. and where or There are rules but you. have to discover them yourself and so. this is what we're talking about before. about entering into another dimension of. reality or tapping into another. dimension of reality which is not which. is the dimension of potentiality it's.

like this podcast existed before you and. Brian put it together it just existed on. another level in potentiality and on it. and the stuff that you guys do that also. existed and or a book that I might write. or a movie that somebody might do and so. I think that is a kind of uh without. trying to sound too Pony baloney here. it's a warrior Pursuit it's something. that Taps into that wolf energy or that.

pure testosterone energy only it's not. channed in a path that already exists. you the artist or the comedian or. whatever discover that path one footstep. at a time and you sort of put your foot. out and you go wrong you go into a. puddle or you step on a pungy steak or. something you go well [ __ ] wait a minute. over here this is solid ground and you. you know this got this got a laugh this. made people I killed when I did this.

right and so you are kind of in the dark. like somebody moving through the dark. trusting your instincts trusting. whatever little Starlight you can see. and when you finally get to the to the. end of that forest and you turn around. you look back at the path you took for a. writer that's a book and you look down. and you say where the [ __ ] did that come. from you know and and you. realize that that was you all along but. you had no idea when you started I.

remember reading that Jackson Brown says. that he writes a song to figure out what. he thinks about something yeah but he. had sex with Linda rodat right back in. the day he was a stud that guy you know. I'm only a John Mar what's wrong with. that's a very studly thing to. do he's a regular dude singing those. beautiful songs up there on that. stage so anyway car away by Magic I. you know I think I think what you're. saying is also like what Michelangelo.

said about creating sculpture is that he. removes the he finds the sculpture in. the thing it's not like he makes it he. removes all the stuff that's hiding the. sculpture that's how he uh looked at it. you know I think so many people that I. get questions there they don't know what. to do you know they're just trying to. figure it out and and I always give them. the same advice I say you know practice. being excellent at something you love it. could be trivial it could be darts I. don't care whatever it is just be. excellent at it put yourself into it.

you're right on target you'll discover. you'll discover something about yourself. whatever it is you know a lot of people. are you know will look to me to see if. they can get a job and my question is. always the same what are you excellent. at because if they can show me two. random things that they're incredible at. they're excellent at I know that they've. learned to apply their authentic self. because you can't truly be excellent at. anything without tapping into that you. to that less than that just what do you. love. yeah what makes you happy what's fun. well that's the great mam Motu mhi quote.

once you understand the way broadly you. can see it in all things exactly that. that idea that there's something that. you tap into and it manifests itself in. a number of different ways in athletics. and artistic what whatever it is but. what you're doing is you're tapping into. the same thing and that is Excellence. you're tapping into the real thing the. way and then when you're on the path. that's going to give you you know the. fruits of your destiny so to speak. whatever it is that's that channel. that's going to bring you to the. ultimate higher level you already have. practice being excellent you know you. know how to do the work and that's.

another key thing that I love about that. you always go back to is just you know. how to do the work you know how to take. the initial steps that one foot in front. of the other to get there and to see. progress and to apply yourself in that. way yeah I'm I'm definitely a believer. in just doing the mundane thing you know. walk into the room sit down at the. keyboard or walk into the dojo start to. do whatever the first wor thing. is um it's the same. thing.

yeah but I would you know just something. is occurring to me as we're talking here. I might be uh I haven't even thought. about this in a million years but you. were talking about Aubrey about people. that uh don't seem to care or don't have. uh the uh enthusiasm for Wonder and awe. in the world yeah I can remember that I. used to be for years I struggled like. that where I was bored with things I was. bored with myself I I I was beating my. brains out saying why don't I love. something what what's what is missing.

and I my sort of my. conclusion was that I really did have. tremendous ambition and tremendous. aspiration but I had buried it under. layers of fear you know as if if I would. ever admit to myself that I wanted to be. excellent at something that that would. be more than I could I could take. failure would be more than I could take. and so when I finally sort of admitted. to myself and actually it's in the.

authentic swing I think or maybe it's. not but when I admitted to myself that I. did have ambition I did want to do. something suddenly everything changed. and then enthusiasm did come but it was. fear so I I think when we when we're. running into people that are not don't. have enthusiasm don't have that fire I. don't believe it's not there I think. it's buried under fear and I think uh I. think that's why great teachers.

coaches will put a young person in a. position where can they can exceed their. expectations or their belief about. themselves where they thought they. couldn't do it and then the guy kicks. them in the ass enough time they. actually do it and they go wow how did. that happen you know and then that's the. spark that can then burst into flame if. it's if it's guided properly and I see I. see that everywhere I'm sorry to say you. know in this country it's everywhere. well I'm glad that you brought up that. it was you at one point and you you.

passed it because one of the really. important things about your book I think. is you your really objective assessment. assessment of your own life at one point. in time when you were like 40 years old. you know you were talking about this. that was a long time ago yeah this. script that wasn't you working and you. you know you know you were like what the. [ __ ] am I doing and then how did you go. from that to completely getting it. together enough to write these books. about getting it together how to get it. how you get over that. fear uh I think at that time you mean.

the fear that I was just talking about. yeah well same thing same question yeah. how did you how did you figure it out I. think once I. realized that I that there was something. I wanted that I wanted to be a writer. which I had refused to admit to myself. because I was so afraid of failing at it. then I just sort of said well you know. there was a moment it's actually in the. war of art where I just sort of realized. the way you get there is one step at a.

time you know like an alcoholic you know. one one day at a time and that it was a. a a process that could be demystified it. wasn't Airy fairy waiting for. inspiration it was just sit the [ __ ]. down put a piece of paper and a. typewriter and start you know and then. do that the next day and do it the next. day and. when and the other aspect for me was I. had no choice that anytime I would try.

to stop and try to sell out I was like. so depressed that I that so I just had. no choice to just keep going going going. but it was before I wrote The War of art. I probably been had been writing for at. least 30 years or at least trying to do. that that book came out in about two. months just because it was so clear in. my mind that that's what I had been. fighting all all these years did you. find that putting it down on paper.

helped you very much because it became. very clear to me like a law almost yeah. I mean for me you know it's. like the way the war of art kind of. started for me was that uh and I'm sure. you guys get this too it's like friends. will come to you and they see that. you're getting it to get you're doing. something you know and they'll say you. know I've got a I've got a a business in. me or a book in me or a movie in me and. I found myself sitting up with friends. you know till two in the morning kind of. psyching them up saying you know you can.

do it you know and explaining what the. negative force was of resistance and how. it was all [ __ ] it was all in your. mind you could overcome it blah blah. blah blah and after doing that about 10. times and of course nobody listens to. you finally I just said I had like a. two-month break and I just said I'm. going to write this down on paper and. then when somebody comes to me I'll just. say here read this and you know shut up. you know so that's sort of how how that. came out but it was very clear in my. mind. from experiencing it and talking about.

it for years I don't know if that. answers your question no I think you're. I think you're honest with yourself and. anyone who's honest with themselves. after enough information comes in that's. sort of the conclusion they all draw. like I'm kind of [ __ ] myself here I'm. sabotaging myself like why don't I know. what I need to do if I had to give. myself advice what advice would I give. just do it [ __ ] just get working you. know do do what you got to do I can't. lose the last 10 pounds will you please. shut the [ __ ] up cuz that's not true if. if you were in a wheelchair from the. neck down paralyzed you're right you.

can't lose that you're okay that's out. of your control but that's not what's. going on here this is weird like with. this thing is a weird little struggle. you got going on there's people out. there that are struggling for real and I. think in the absence of that you know. there's something to be said about these. um hunter gatherer cultures and the. happiness and H hunted gather cultures. very strange it's like almost devoid of. insanity almost uh just almost. completely cured of uh mental health.

issues it's really weird they have. alcoholism if alcohol is introduced into. their environments but other than that. when they don't have that like happy. people life in the igga did you ever see. that documentary no it's a Warner. herzog's documentary on these people. that live in Siberia and all these guys. do is live off the land all they do is. hunt and fish and and trap and you know. they're trapping Furs and that's how. they buy like snowmobiles and you know. hatchets and [ __ ] like that but the the. majority of their time is just shooting.

animals eating them fishing and. everybody's happy as [ __ ] there's a. whole village of people that are so. happy they're just smiling and laughing. there's like no disputes everybody's. working together to try to get meat you. know they're showing how to like like. the the craftsmanship involved and. making these snowshoes and sleds they. make their own skis I mean it's really. really interesting because in the ab. absence of that real daytoday struggle. that these people have we're almost like.

we we're like waiting for something to. come along and kick us in the ass it's. almost like we only react by Nature. instead of act in some ways well you. know I'm actually fascinated by that. stuff too Joe I'm fascinated by tribal. cultures yeah and uh but you know. there's no going back to that no at some. point there was an invention happened. and the invention was the individual and. once that was invented I think the. ancient Greeks invented it somewhere. around you know the time of uh Socrates.

and before that and at that point we no. longer had the tribe you know we no. longer had that wonderful uh thing. enveloping us right but but the other. you know if you also if you look about. look at Afghanistan you know which is a. great place for us to to study because. we see it in the news and we've had seen. it which is like in pashtunistan. you get kind of pretty much tribal. culture the way it was way way way back. when and I'm also like when I was.

talking about reading about the. commandes a little while ago the other. thing one of the things about tribes is. they are unbelievably cruel to whoever. if they capture anybody else or if. there's anyone who violates the tribe. you know it's not such an idilic world. when you get into that side of it wait a. minute you mean it's not like. Avatar yeah that was the side they left. out of in. of course it's almost like that's a it's. almost a cheat code to happiness you. know that kind of simple life where.

you're doing you're constantly out there. doing this world where it's it's just we. don't know what the hell to do and we. don't have action as this kind of. through line in our life of okay got to. go achieve that next goal which is meat. that next goal which is fish that next. goal which is shelter it's just this. amorphous world and we got to figure it. out and I think one of the things you. said is is really important is you got. to just do the work and then but at the. start it's always a leap of faith. whatever that is like you don't know. exactly how it's going to turn out but.

you know you take that first that first. step you know and then just trust that. if you stay and you show up and you do. that every time you know then some. momentum's going to start going it's you. know it's just kind of a cliche it's. that old maslo pyramid you know of where. the the basic needs of hunger or you. know clothing da D and then when you get. to the top which is where we are the. needs become you know cuz we have. grocery stores you know there's no bombs. going off in the street so now it. becomes. self-actualization or asking the.

questions you know who am I why am I. hear D all those tough questions right. that that the tribesmen don't have to. ask because they're too busy fighting. off Grizz right and to me this is where. something like martial arts or any kind. of a discipline or art period the. production of art this podcast your. comedy whatever it is is and I don't I. can't really put my finger on why but I. think it's an it's an answer to this. thing of being alone being an individual.

being unfettered from the tribal. structure or from any structure where. we're kind of floating in space you know. like uh George Clooney and uh you know. trying to figure out who am you know who. am I why am I here what do I want tough. tough questions you know yeah very tough. questions very interesting questions I. think that what you said is really. important the thing of cheat code that. it's almost like a cheat code to life I.

think what's going on is that's how. we're designed we're designed to live. that and the the variables that we. encounter on a day-to-day basis are so. beyond our genetic capabilities the idea. of keeping track of 7 billion people's. lives that's insane but that's where. we're headed and I feel like in the. Industrial Age from from the you know. the creation of the machines to today. we're essentially entering into slowly. but surely into a completely new. dimension of reality it's like what.

we've created in just this short amount. of time that we've had electricity is. staggeringly crazy the idea of the. internet the idea of computers big. screen TVs projections the things that. we can do today Wi-Fi in a plane insane. insane stuff and it's just begun and I. think that what we're facing and what. we're going to face over the next. hundred years years is essentially going. to be like a new dimension like some. sort of a virtual reality where we exist.

symbiotically with computers and the. internet and with each other and I think. that our puny brains you the three or. four five of us in this room we're not. designed for this new world we our our. brains are going to have to catch up. just much like the Apes who spoke in. grunts had to catch up with these clever. [ __ ] that figured out how to. talk with slippery tongue and actually. say names and you know the I think it's. all part of growth it's all we're not. done the human race is not this is not. the finished product this is like one.

step on a long road probably an infinite. Road and our Creations are a part of. what's en enhancing or changing or. altering the world itself well you were. saying I think you're absolutely right. Joe you were saying before that we're. cavemen and it's true because if you. think about the history of human beings. from the time we were homage to today. you do that long line right and you find. that like the LA only the last one tenth. of an inch is when we were civilized and. it's like you know 8,000 Miles the rest.

of it when we were tribal people so we. come into this world I believe with this. tribal template in our mind you know. where it's important to us what our. friends think of us you know we act to. please others like in high school where. you know you have to be in the right. click and where this and that and uh. it's only in this these last few seconds. before midnight. that we discover that we're individuals. and we're not wired to be individuals.

and that's where to me resistance and. stuff like that comes in that's what. sort of would push us back to being in. in the tribe in the in the mass mind and. that kind of thing as opposed to going. forward each morning one step at a time. in ex into in that dark Forest finding. out you know where where we are what we. think what we believe I think there a. very important point you said about. people not being designed to be. individuals and it's very ironic that.

the people that live in cities are way. lonelier when there's 20 million people. around than the people that live in a. tribe where there's 20 people around. that's so ironic and so strange the the. loss of community like I keep saying. with my friends like why don't we just. buy houses in the same street like what. are we doing like why do we live so far. from each other wouldn't it be cool if. you were right there and I could just. knock on your door like why don't we. figure that out but we we're so used to. this idea of cars driving to homes that. no one lives next to their friends. anymore and you our sense of community.

depending upon where you live can get. like really sketchy like I was talking. to my friend Jim Norton who lives in a. giant apartment building in New York. City it's [ __ ] huge and he doesn't. know anybody there are all these. compartments in this giant cement box. that he shares with all these people I. mean literally if he could walk through. a wall he could catch you could touch. someone while they're peeing I mean. they're right next to his head yet he. doesn't know that guy at all that's a. weird thing that we've created and I.

don't think we're designed for it I. don't think we're designed for it but I. think there's hope and the hope is that. we're you know we're kind of like this. meat vehicle with a computer you know a. meat vehicle with a computer and then. out there somewhere is new source code. you know and just like a new I the. iPhone will just plug in new you know. software and new operating system you. know when you plug it back in I think. that's what's going to help us navigate. this passes we got to plug back into the. mother code the source code and then. download new instructions for this meat.

vehicle that we're all walking around in. and that's the only way to the only way. to do it and so know in doing so you'll. have all kinds of ancillary benefits not. only of how to fit into society but you. know as you said to find your authentic. swing your authentic self you know. because that's there in that code too. and you just got to find the ways to. plug back in I mean the flip side to. what you were saying Joe is like you. were saying that isn't it a shame that. we're all isol we can't live with our. friends we can't have kind of the tribe. and you know there's a big element of of.

Truth in that in our heart but the flip. side of that is and I feel this a lot is. I want to be alone you know when when. I'm in a group and I got to do [ __ ] that. other people want to do or I have to. conform to what their expectations of me. are [ __ ] that you know I don't want that. at all and and the other thing is and. I'll I'll just blow it up if I have to. you know uh and the other thing that's. really a mystery kind of what you were. saying Aubrey is nobody's ever figured. out why we have this big brain right we.

never it's not like we incrementally. evolved it because we had to learn to. throw a stone and then we had to learn. to shoot a bow and arrow it's like all. of a sudden this is why they have all. these crazy Sci-Fi movies you know that. talk about you know whatever prome but. where did it come from and I know I mean. I can feel it in my own head right now. I'm using like one. 0. of what's up there and I know we all. are so who knows what's out there we got. the we got the hardware we just don't.

have the software yet right yeah we out. of the software and we don't I mean it's. obvious too that there's ways to. maximize this Hardware absolutely and. we're some of us have grasped certain. areas of it some of us have grasped it. athletically some of some of us like. yourself have done it creatively there's. all like this weird little like this. guy's figured out this thing now you. know how to work your this you know it's. like but the thing is so complicated the. brain the body itself is such a weird. vehicle it's so complicated it's almost. impossible in this day and age to get it.

right but back in the happy the Taiga. days you know if you were one of those. crazy guys living in Siberia you mean. there's some [ __ ] you got to learn yeah. don't go in the river when it's frozen. you know don't uh don't fall through the. ice don't do that when a moose comes run. uh what else uh this is how Saw Works. you know there's a lot of [ __ ] you don't. have if you were there Joe they would. kick you out of the tribe and if they. didn't kick you out you'd leave yourself. no you know what I would do I would just. manipulate those fools I'd figure out. I'd figure out a way to start my own.

cult and I just make up a bunch of [ __ ]. and see who's with me you know speaking. of tribes is a little off topic but one. of the most like the coolest collections. of photographs I've ever seen it's from. this artist called it's at. before.com and check it out it's like. all the tribes and the ideas before they. before they they met before they pass. away you know before they get. assimilated into so the photograph s are. stunning you know they have the eagle. hunters in Mongolia and the different. tribes from Africa so if you want to. kind of take a look I think the book is.

about to go on sale now here's another. kind of fascinating part about. tribalism that if if we were uh to. really insert ourselves into that world. they live in Dimensions Beyond reality. we like to think of these primitive. tribes as just these guys you know. pounding Stones onto you know acorns but. in fact there are things like well uh. whatever tribe it is where you need to. know where the deer are so you dream and.

in the dream you're told where the deer. are or take combo this frog medicine. where they burn themselves and take this. poison and put it on their skin it's say. frog Toxin and then apparently they can. see all the animals in the forest that's. what they do I believe it it's the same. sort of thing as Psych start running I. want to do that it's like there's one. two days away if I run this way and then. they find it we should doubt should be. an episode of Joe Rogan questions. everything we should take that frog. Toxin and see if we can find the how. dangerous is it kill your dick or. anything I need to know anything you go.

to suram and it's uh it's dangerous to. the Frog but the only to the frog the. frog the frog does not have a good go of. it it's harvesting the toxin but as far. as the humans it's uh perfectly safe so. that you know when the Native Americans. would look at the white man they thought. we were just a bunch of idiots because. we were not tapped into that other. dimension at all go how that work out. for you yeah that's because the. invention of the Winchester rifle but. other than that yeah and polio Smalls.

yeah small pox else we that was go to. show you there's no justice in the world. yeah cuz they would have won if if there. had been any justice I learned that from. Ice Cube no justice no peace yeah I was. in I was in Peru and they still you know. some of the old shamanistic traditions. those cultures still exist and they. still have the words for the Spaniards. and the people that came and in their. mind you know part of the reason for the. rainbow flag is that's the colors of the. chakras that they see like visually see. inside a person who's connected and then.

these other people came in and invaded. their culture and they called them the. gray ones because they didn't see that. [ __ ] they was like whoa what is this. human walking around that has no colors. you know and for them it was because all. of that was blocked up and they weren't. kind of tapped in and connected so for. them it's a very visual thing you know. and you ask him like well why what are. you talking about he's like what are you. talking about cuz I see. what kind of psychedelics were they. [ __ ] around with iwka yeah see. there's a different reality when you're.

consistently altering your. neurochemistry with psychedelic drugs. there's a there's a diff I've had. moments there's the the last moment that. I did DMT where I said yeah time to take. a break where reality got super slippery. for about two weeks and when I say by. slippery the the Psychedelic experience. was so profound and it was changing my. regular everyday mind mind so much that. I felt like a different person who had. to relearn life like I was thrown into. this life with a manual of this is what.

you've done so far why the [ __ ] did I do. that it doesn't matter this what you did. and this is who you are now and ready go. like it felt so unreal for a while that. I'm I'm convinced that there was some. sort of a permanent change in the. structure of my brain or the way my. brain accepts certain chemicals or produ. it seems like it produces ones in a. different way now. and I think that if you're doing that on. a regular basis every day day in day out.

these people are almost unrecognizable I. mean they're they're all their reality. is they're probably seeing Flo like we. had David Cho in here David Cho recently. did I wasin now he says he trips every. day he says I don't know what to do. anything they're all in front of me. right now I see a dragon in front of you. it's flying through the air like he sees. flying snakes he goes I can just I can. just see them they're around us all the. time yeah you you're normally used to. seeing one one layer of the onion and. then all of a sudden you get to pierce. through all the layers and see all these. layers David's not an idiot he's a.

brilliant guy and he's cool as [ __ ] and. he's not a liar so if he tells me he's. seeing those things I believe him 100%. so what happened to him what what. changed his mind what did that to his. mind and fried but I don't know it's not. fried because you're only putting. something in that already exists the the. real issue with like psychedelic drugs. or you know anything that's a a. non-native chemical that you're. introducing into your body you you have. ld50 rates you have rates of toxicity.

where it becomes deadly to 50% of the. people that take it what is it for DMT. no one even knows because it's a human. neurotransmitter it's a part of your. natural human brain chemistry that's. what they're doing when they're doing. iasa they're doing an orally active. version of this DMT so if this is if if. he's seeing [ __ ] floating snakes. maybe they're there we're just not. seeing them maybe we're not getting. enough DMT on a regular basis yeah but. if you if you take if you drink blood or. if you take put stuff in your body. really bad analogy no I mean like like.

you're saying because it's from your. body it's not bad because it's you're. putting it something that's already in. your body back in your body well that's. you know more than you had before you. know it's like if you I know what you're. saying estrogen if you eat too many. soybeans it's bad right you're not. taking out something and putting more in. you're you're adding more to it that. you're supposed to have so if you have. too much blood in your body it's. probably bad or if you have too much you. know what I mean any anything that's in. your body is doesn't mean it's healthy.

if you put it back in your that's a good. point but it's it's not like blood and. it's also the most transient thing ever. observed in the body your body brings it. back to Baseline in like 15 minutes from. a full-blown trip into another dimension. to back to completely sober 15 minutes. it's CU your brain knows how to handle. it your brain knows what it is it's it's. there all the time but but you got a. good point though though it's it's a. really good point as far as hormones go. that's a very big point which what. happens with guys when they they U do.

steroids if you see like bodybuilders. after they stop doing steroids they. usually have to take a bunch of. different drugs to try to boost back up. their body's production of testosterone. because they just shoot themselves up. with so much and they become the Hulk I. mean they're taking like hyper human. levels 10 15 times what a person would. be you know putting into their just. having their body grow they're just. pumping this [ __ ] in their body all the. time all sorts of different so the balls. just go you don't need us and the balls.

just check out so obviously putting too. much testosterone into your body is. dangerous putting too much estrogen has. consequences as well so in that sense. you got a good point you know I I think. we we've talked a lot about the drug way. to do it but there's so many non-drug. ways to do it I mean I've had Visions as. intense as you know some of the Visions. on psychedelics in you know deep. meditation you know when I went and. floated I had really deep Visions when I. do a breath work ceremony where you do. the shamanic breathing where you hyper. kind of hyperventilate yourself and and.

get to a state of heightened awareness. you start to see some of the similar. things so for me you know I hear David. Cho's story and he's already taken care. of all of his needs that guy has no. maslo one two three four are taken care. of and he's a Visionary artist already. and then he takes something that prize. open his doors perception temporarily. you know turns the venetian blind. sideways for a while and then all of a. sudden maybe his brain decides you know. what I don't really need to turn them. back closed again you know I can leave.

them open just a little bit because I'm. going to be fine and there's a lot of. cool information and visions and things. out there so I think that to me that's. the alternate explanation that's a. possible explanation but he might be. right too he might have fried his brain. he might he might have gone too far and. the brain's just not just ding ding ding. ding ding the reason the other aspect of. this is if we if we're trying to imagine. ourselves into tribal cultures that are. you know seeing visions on a regular. basis like if it happens to you Joe.

you're just an individual without any. structure around you there's no teacher. there's no Shaman there's nobody who can. guide you but how do we know that in. these tribal cultures I mean for. hundreds and hundreds thousands of years. you know the the elders have known how. to navigate it here's how you do it and. you know when you when you enter that. crazy space you know if there are if. your uncle is there and he can teach you. and show you how to do this and your. brother maybe that's the way it goes and. maybe they're living in that world all.

the time and seeing the dragons and. seeing all that stuff you know it. wouldn't surprise me I know I know my. iasa Shaman pretty well my Orlando CH. andama down from Peru and he he drinks. iasa in ceremony probably five six. nights a week tell me what is iasa I. don't know what that is so it's it's a. it's a psychoactive oral oral tea that. they brew from DMT which comes from the. shakuna leaf which is like 27% DMT or. whatever and they brew that with an MAOI. which is a vine that allows it to be.

orally active and so they drink this. brew and you have a DMT experience that. lasts for you know four to six hours. something DMT is killed in the gut by. monoamine oxidase so when you take like. if you're eating grass like feris grass. it has DMT in it and if you were eating. that grass your you would just start. tripping your balls off if your stomach. didn't produce this stuff this monoamine. that keeps monoamine oxidates that that. keeps the DMT from being orally active.

so when they combine the two of them. they combine the harmine and the uh the. inhibitor of that compound that breaks. it down you guys are deep into this [ __ ]. huh. you're it's one it's one of my tools in. the sh you know that I use to tap into. my well it's also it's to me um it it's. almost makes me sad when someone doesn't. know about it because it's so crazy and. it's so real and so vivid and so. memorable and so lifechanging uh Amber. Lion who is a friend from uh she used to.

work for CNN and uh now she's become a. crazy psychedelic Adventurer from the. podcast we were on the podcast and she. asked me uh about ways to change the. world you know she's seen a lot of [ __ ]. and she's been all over the world and. been involved in you know like covering. like some intense conflicts and I said. psychedelics I think that psychedelic. drugs change the world I think that you. know I mean for some people it doesn't. for some people just gets them high for. some people they don't want to change.

they don't want to explore but if you if. you want to really see some [ __ ] that. you didn't even think could be possible. in a movie there's there's some ways out. there there's some methods you can you. could find those methods and like Aubrey. said a lot of them aren't even uh drug. related you can have a naturally. occurring psychedelic trip in an. isolation tank and that's what McKenna. Terrence McKenna believed when we were. talking about the growth of the human. brain the doubling of the human brain. size over a period of two million years. Terence McKenna had a whole theory about. that being having to do with climate.

change and primates experimenting with. psychedelic mushrooms that the. rainforest receded into grass lands and. that these chimps started following. around or you know our ancient homed uh. ancestors started following around these. cows and that you know wild cows and. eating the mushrooms that grew on their. [ __ ] and they were they're prevalent in. that area. and he has it like he had it broken down. he died but he had it broken down in in. terms of the the the time of the the.

climate change and it's very. controversial Theory but one of the best. ones and it's poo pooed because it. involves psychedelic mushrooms but the. reality is anybody who poo poo. psychedelic mushrooms has simply not. done psychedelic mushrooms CU if you've. done them and you blow your mind out and. have this in Crazy the the Egyptian. icons danc ing in front of your eyes and. fluorescent colors and explaining to you. the nature of life through a voice that. you can understand but you know is in. English that once that that experience.

has happened you'd go okay that exists. that exists how many people have. experienced this how many people have. this if you gave that to monkeys what. would happen and I think that without a. doubt that's the most likely candidate. it's just seems ridiculous because we've. demonized all drugs we put them all into. this big stupid blanket and so things. like psychedelics which very well be. vehicles for evolution I mean it might. be there looking like a big dinner plate. sitting in the middle of a field because.

it wants you to eat it so you can tell. you things and it visual Acuity. increasing visual Acuity there's like he. had a whole bunch of points that that. that led to this idea M the um uh. stimulation of male genitalia increased. erections when they're eating psilocybin. mushrooms the uh in small doses. measurable in increase in visual acuity. which would lead them to be better. Hunters which would lead them to survive. better like all these different points. besides the Psychedelic experience all.

these different points lead to this idea. that the animals that Embrace that into. their diet would have a better chance of. surviving you know to bring this kind of. back to to some of the stuff that you. wrote I know for myself and the. Psychedelic experience for me you wrote. wrote in in your book The authentic. swing if we find ourselves lost or. tormented or in pain the reason is that. we have somehow become estranged from. who we really are are from the ground of. our individual being and for me when you. know when I find myself in those kind of. states where I'm a little sad or a.

little lost or a little depressed for me. the Psychedelic experience like I said. with or without drugs could be a deep. meditation could be anything it shows me. back to my true self and then it can. allow me to be happy again and and. fulfilled and full of life again can you. define Aubrey your true self as when you. just what is. it well I've seen it and I've felt it. and I've been it you know I know when. it's when it's there I know when it's. operating the ship I had a long. experience that actually allowed me to.

see the differentiating parts of myself. the highest self then the mind which I. called Mind boy because it was very. juvenile in the way that it kind of it. loved puzzles it loved to figure things. out it loved and then there was the. monkey part of me you know the the Flesh. and Blood and testosterone and all of. those things were all kind of coalescing. together um but the highest self that. part of me which you know is my. authentic self is is very clear to me. and um it's something that I try to I. try to get it to to run the ship as.

often as possible and push the mind out. of the way because the mind constantly. wants to take over it's I got this [ __ ]. you know leave it to me buddy you know I. can solve all these puzzles um but then. when the highest self is in charge. that's when you're doing your tell me a. little bit more about the highest self. as you experience it in yourself I feel. like you're in therapy yeah does it. sound like it I feel like you're being. analyzed you know the highest the. highest self for me is is very it's very. happy and it's very it's very content.

it's very it loves the creation that. it's in first of all and it loves the. people of this creation and part of what. it's here for is and I'm saying it it's. me and it's kind of weird to separate it. like that but part of what it's here for. is to uh you know I had I had a vision. of it being a a nutcracker of sorts to. just kind of go through and roll along. and spread ideas and tools and different. tactics and things that people can kind. of open their shelves a little bit too.

so I saw myself my highest self cast. like a bowling ball that just a bowling. ball of light that just kind of rolls. around through the Earth and and that to. me I know when I'm in that mode not only. can I feel it not only can I see it you. know visually my mind's eye but I know. that that's what I'm here for you know. that's my highest calling that's my. authentic swing is when I'm that bowling. ball that rolls through and says Hey. guys have you heard about this thing. called iwaska hey guys have you tried. you know working out with a kettle bell. or whatever it is you know part of that.

opening up the horizons to to other. people is let me ask you this is your. highest. self content with the way the world is. or does it want to help it evolve to. something else no it wants to fight like. hell to help it evolve it it feels that. it's it's off track a little bit and. then there's some beautiful things and. you know I'm not disparaging the world. but we've taken a a Veer to the wrong. way and uh it's ready to the human race. you mean the human race yeah because you.

know the Earth itself is in natural. Harmony but the human race puts the. Earth's Harmony out of balance as well. as the harmony amongst it so to bring it. back into balance um it wants to fight. like hell and it's only happy when it's. fighting like hell you know and when it. doesn't want to fight it's like what the. hell am I doing I think we're in the. middle of it so we can't see it I think. it's a giant mathematical equation the. pros the cons the good the bad the the. sucky the awesome it's all together and. the resistance almost battles you to. make you appreciate when you accomplish.

something even more so almost motivates. more movement than the worst thing that. can ever happen to you is you win the. lottery that Isn win the lottery at 21. good luck [ __ ] face you're never going. to figure out [ __ ] you have 500 million. dollar and you're 21 you're going to be. a dummy for the rest of your life you. have that you have no opposing Force to. apply your strength against there was. something I read uh yesterday or today. earlier uh about uh the prince of uh one. of those uh brunai or something like. that who pissed away $18 billion.

doll8 billion dollar and that's what. happens when you're born with all that. cash you can't figure that [ __ ] out for. yourself you're just you're not going to. you're not going to it's you're at least. at a you're you know at a. disadvantage yeah it's it's life you. need struggle yeah you need all of it. and I think that we as human race if in. you know the macro you know from the.

microcosm of the individual to the human. race itself it almost seems like all. that stuff is necessary it almost I. don't like it I don't like it in myself. I don't like it in other people but it. exists it's always existed there's never. been a day on this planet without War. what what is it what is it and what's. going on really if you were objective. and you weren't attached to the life and. death of the individuals that were a. part of this race we call humans if you. weren't a part of that and you were. looking at it objectively if you were an. alien from another planet that wasn't. even made of Flesh you might be going oh.

I see what they're doing they're forcing. themselves to move they're forcing. themselves to do things they're battling. over the [ __ ] blood of the earth. they're forcing themselves to accomplish. more and more amazing technological. Feats so they can kill each other. quicker they doing these crazy [ __ ] and. the whole while they're [ __ ] out. kids at an alarming rate doubling trip. Rippling the population like Rats on a. sinking ship hanging on to every pet of. piece of floating wood they're nuts. they're sucking all the fish out of the. ocean throwing all their [ __ ] into it.

they're [ __ ] crazy what is that. balance 18 foot uh orish just found out. off a Catalina Island today oh my God. it's dead yeah it died of natural causes. and the previous the previous one. longest one that they have found was I. think 3 foot and so oh my God yeah does. it radioactive do they check it for f. I don't know holy [ __ ] that's incredible. well they say there's a lot of fish that. just grow until something meets them.

they just they don't really necessarily. have a lifespan they just keep going. they it's not built in there because you. got no chance like good luck you know. there's leopard seals out there they're. looking for your ass seven days a week. you're not going to make it so here live. forever if you can and some of them live. forever I guess that guy did that guy's. bad badass fish or fish or fish are you. riding right now are you project never. stop you don't take a day off after you. complete a book or uh I take days off. but not I I have a theory about. finishing a book and that is that you.

should start the next one you should. already have the next one or the next. two. going otherwise you fall into the abyss. you know need nothing to talk about. Abyss yeah well I mean what I mean by. that is you resistance and negativity. will come up and you'll get over to your. worst side you know so to me I've always. got something going and only when I've. kind of established a beach head in a. new project when I kind of know I'm okay. then I'll take a little time off that's.

exactly the same with standup comedy ah. how so when you produce a CD or a DVD or. a new special is what we call it we call. it specials because they used to be like. an HBO Comedy Special they call you're. once it's over you throw that out like I. don't do any of that material anymore I. might do one or two bits on a request or. if if it's poignant I'll point it out. and know but I'll even point it out that. it's an old bit but from then on it's. all new stuff so when I go into uh a new. hour if I I have to scr up all the [ __ ].

that I'm ready to you know to really. ready to piece together I have to have. something already ah so I have to have. something that at least I've attempted. on stage or worked out on paper I can't. just go up raw and clean and then finish. finish my hour special and then go okay. now all that material is done I have no. idea what I'm going to talk about next. like I always have a few things ready. yeah same thing what you're saying yeah. you how do you um how do you ration your.

time off when you're when you're writing. do you just write until you feel like. you don't want to do it anymore like do. you do you have like a specific amount. of time do you make yourself work every. day I do work every day you know within. reason I mean maybe I won't work one day. a week or something like that but so. days a week I found yeah and I if I. could do seven I would do seven. sometimes I can do maybe 25 in a row or. something like that even if I only do a. little bit one day but I always try to. do something no an hour or something. like that but I max out at about four.

hours at that point when I start making. mistakes when I start making typos then. I know it's time to stop and and it's. kind of like working out at the gym you. can push it too far and then you just. you know diminishing returns start to. kick in but I do think it you know. physical fitness I think is a real. parallel to that to my experience of how. I work you know that you you can get out. of shape and you can work yourself back. into shape and when I've been when when. I'm working steadily on something I can.

work longer each day you know and when I. haven't when I've when I haven't been. working it's just like going to the gym. or trying to run or something you you. poop out you know you just don't have. enough but I'm definitely a believer. that the Muse comes around every day and. she wants to see you ready to go ready. to rock and roll you know even if it's. only for an hour you're you're what. you're saying parallels comedy in so. many ways because you you get in comedy. shape as well like stand up stand up.

comedy shape is really it's really. critical to get to you can you can get. along without it but I've had periods uh. where I've gotten that out of Comedy. shape and even though I'm capable of. killing still there can be a moment. where I just this is a little off and. it's because I'm not in comedy shape CU. I'm not doing comedy four five shows a. week and if you're not doing four you. don't want to too much cuz if you do too. much it gets boring and you don't want. to ever get to that part so you want to. keep the the the fun alive with it but. you definitely want to keep it sharp and.

when you want to keep it when it's sharp. then it's like a part of your natural. Consciousness like you plug right into. it you don't go oh this is that thing. that I used to do how's this go again. it's just your your mind is firing and I. think that applies to writing as well I. think that that getting into that. mindset and and and when when you're. there on a regular basis you get in. writing shape you know and I think that. that applies to jiujitsu I know I know. it does to Jiu-Jitsu when I train if I'm. not training on a regular basis and I go.

train even if I'm physically in shape. all that extra thinking that I'm start. that I have to do if it's not coming. completely natural it might it might. look natural to someone who's watching. it but to me I'm thinking like an extra. 1/8 of a second more than I should be. whereas if I was in shape I would be. thinking at all I would when you're in. doing Jiu-Jitsu it's just like doing. comedy just like writing where when. you're in it you're in it you just flow. everything moves together and you're a. passenger you're just letting it all. happen all your training sort of uh.

manifests itself in the the experience. of rolling going back to what you were. saying Aubrey about seeing your higher. self and then your mind boy how would. you apply that to what Joe just said. well the Mind boy wants to think about. everything wants to think about the. moves plan it out think about your. opponent or just be distracted and think. about what you're going to do when. you're finished rolling or what you're. going to do the next day or about some. old injury or something like that and. you need to kick that guy out and and. roll with that that presence you know I.

play songs in my head when I'm rolling. like I'll sing the entire song yeah. distract distract the Mind boy it's R. well I don't know what I'm sometimes. it's random man um sometimes they're. ridiculously silly songs you know and. they'll just start playing in my head. and I'm I'm going over it while I'm. rolling cuz I won't allow anything else. in there I'm just like. like especially if it's not a life or. death struggle like you know you mount. someone and you got them pretty much you. just got to cook them you got to wait.

until you can tap them when you're in. that sort of a situation like you can. you could force you know you could lose. lose track so I fill up the part of my. brain that's not required with a song. yeah yeah that's a smart tactic it's a. constant battle and and to me that you. know I'm a big proponent of the warrior. kind of code the warrior philosophy and. you know people think about that in an. external sense like oh what are you. fighting who are you fighting who's your. enemies well that used to maybe make. some sense but to me the warrior is it's. a constant battle with your own mind.

with the parasite of that part of your. mind that constantly wants to be active. and and that's why you're a warrior the. Mind boy in other words the mind yeah. the Mind boy the parasite is what the. tol teex call it there's a lot of. different things the inauthentic self. you know you could put a lot of. different names on that but a warrior is. someone who fights against that. resistance which is another aspect of. your mind you know that was the original. term for Jihad the real G the Jihad. originally was a fight against your own. vices it was a fight against your yeah.

your own your own weaknesses it became a. holy war it was somewhere around the. they hijacked out yeah the mujahadin and. the Soviet Union and the CIA somewhere. around that area I don't know who caused. it to change but then it became a term. for a holy war but before it was a holy. war it was a war against your your own. self inadequacy. and I think that's a war that we wage. every day you know and that's the key. the key is deciding that okay I'm going. to be a warrior and I'm not going to.

accept that part of myself that is. deficient that is lacking you know but. still and another concept that I think. is important is to have what I call. ruthless self-love and that's just not. this coddling self-love of a spoiling. grandmother oh yeah eat the candy love. it's that ruthless self- Lov like this. is what's best for you I'm looking out. for you long term I want you to thrive. in your life and I'm going to give you. what you need to thrive and nothing else. you know my self love does not talk that. nice my self love is to get up [ __ ].

let's do this [ __ ] it makes a lot of. noises come on [ __ ] don't be a [ __ ]. [ __ ] that's why it's ruthless you know. but it's not cruel it's not going to be. that it's not cruel it's not going to. punish you unnecessarily oh you [ __ ]. fat slob you lazy piece of [ __ ] that can. can happen it can happen and that's and. that's what you got to watch you got to. have that that's the self-love part of. it you know the ruthless is that intense. like come on do it you know get up get. yourself done this is what's best for. you and then the self-love part is not.

to unnecessarily antagonize yourself. because we can be brutal to ourselves I. mean who who would we allow talk as much. [ __ ] to oursel as as ourselves right you. know nobody yeah I think this the um the. term self-love is a funny one because. people yeah you love yourself don't you. you always knew you loved yourself you. know people there's a weird thing about. well if you don't love yourself why the. [ __ ] would anybody else love you you. know you should be a a person worthy of. your own love and if you're not you're. doing it wrong it's really that simple.

it doesn't mean worship yourself doesn't. mean uh pretend that you're something. awesome if you're not it means let. yourself know when you're not awesome. let let yourself know everything you're. doing wrong be completely honest with. yourself and until you do that you're. doomed you're doomed you're doomed. you're never going to get it right. you're never going to get it right if. you don't look at yourself the way other. people look at you or even more harshly. you're [ __ ] and then and then the. other component is forgive yourself for. these past Deeds we'll rehash these old. things that we've done so many times.

that becomes new yeah that becomes new. resistance you know these old past Deeds. that we're constantly lashing ourselves. like the way to look at it in my opinion. is just let yourself know you are not. the past you are who you are right now. and you could have [ __ ] up your entire. life but right now you wake up and the. way I always describe it to people. pretend that you are a hero in your own. movie and the movie just started now. your life is in chambles what would the. hero in the movie do a movie that you. would want to go see what would happen. how would you get your [ __ ] together how.

would the music start picking up how. would it sound it start sounding like. you know good morning waving at people. smiling all of a sudden you know you're. at the gym sweating it out you go. through this whole montage of scenes. where this guy gets his [ __ ] together do. all that dummy do all that be the hero. in your own movie and it starts now you. could be a total it doesn't matter the. May the movie will be even better when. you turn it all around yeah you used to. be a total [ __ ] loser and a liar and. a piece of [ __ ] you were fat and lying. about it you had a [ __ ] belly sucker.

on there's a reason they like Jared from. Subway you know not because he was. skinny his whole life there's plenty of. people skinny whole life yeah it's not. Michael Phelps you know Jared from. Subway used to be a fatso that's the. whole thing and I think going back to. you and your books it's one of the. things that I found really refreshing. about your book is that you were really. honest about how you felt about yourself. at that time and that you knew you. needed to make changes and when people. read that it inspires people to get. things moving did you know you were. going to do that when you when you made. that book did you have any idea it was.

going to have the kind of impact that. it's had no not at all you know and the. uh those little anecdotes that are sort. of Stories on myself of like you know. the most excruciating moments da those. are the things that people respond to. the most you know it's like the worst. [ __ ] that you could tell on yourself the. more people can relate to it because. they've all we've all experienced that. same thing ourselves and uh but no I I. didn't Joe I didn't had any but this.

thing has been out since 2002 and it's. just. slowly one book at a time found you know. it's way into the into the world well. now that you were just on Oprah it's. going to be on a lot of other people's. radar that helps a little bit you on the. Oprah and the male. opra got. both yeah I think that what you've done. is is so important and it's it's helped. me tremendously it's helped a lot of. people that have uh put in contact with. it and Aubrey for sure it probably had.

something to do with him uh starting up. on it so many of these I mean even. turning pro you know which is very. analogous to the war of Art and I. actually would wanted to ask you you. know when recommending um between war of. Art and turning pro what are the. distinctions but for me that that. turning pro concept was something that I. bring with me you know every day you. know it's like all right what what does. the pro do today you know the pro goes. in he doesn't screw around his check his. emails and look at his Facebook likes. the pro goes in to the meat of the. problem you know and that helps me kind.

of prioritize my day as you know CEO of. the company and the other endeavors that. I have to do is like what does the pro. do right now you know well it's kind of. like your Warrior concept as well right. what what would he do yeah do it right. you don't have to do it wrong and that's. one of the things that we see in. involved in politics it's one of the. things that we see in in the corporate. world and the the impact on the. environment the corporations are having. the impact on societies that they're. having by going into third world.

countries and setting up shop and you. know what's going on in China where. where they're making iPhones in a. factory that has Nets around it to keep. people from jumping off the [ __ ] roof. like there's got to be a way to do this. better you know somewhere along the line. someone put Humanity out of the picture. put morals out of the picture and took. advantage of the diffusion of. responsibility that comes from people. acting in gigantic groups where they. don't feel responsible for their actions. each individual feels like they're a. part of something much bigger than them. it's why people don't mind throwing. cigarettes out the window they don't.

even feel responsible they're not. throwing a cigarette in their own house. okay they're not throwing it on the. floor of their living room they're. throwing a cigarette and someone else is. going to deal with there's plenty of. people out there that do that it's. diffusion of responsibility yeah sure. too many [ __ ] people pressfield it. all goes back to that we're not designed. for this [ __ ] so what do you think. between the war of Art and and turning. pro you know when I'm recommending these. books do you still recommend the war of. art or what are the distinctions for for. different people who want to read one of. these books well I think the war of art. is probably the one to read first.

because it was written first for one. thing but also it really sort of. explains the basic kind of principles of. this Theory whatever it is yeah you know. what is resistance what is and and. turning pro is sort of the answer my. answer to how you deal with this. negative force in your life you know. rather than blaming yourself or you know. passing judgment on yourself switch from. being an amateur to being a pro which. sort of takes the Judgment out of it all.

the self- condemnation out of it yeah so. that for you know turning pro would be. kind of the second one to read if got it. if anybody were asking me why awesome or. what order what about these books that. you gave me which one of those should I. read first Gates of Fire or tides of War. uh Gates of Fire tides of War is a very. difficult read what are you saying I'm. stupid it's my favorite. how dare you it but it's. uh why is it a difficult read well I'll. open it up and you'll see okay is it. just because of the period it covers or.

the the the don't tell me the period. that it covers is a really complex. period and also it's a period it's like. I don't know it feels sort of like uh. blowing I don't know but uh Gates of. Fire is a really simple story with a bit. good you know good and evil and it's the. kind of story that psyches people up and. you're when you're done you're ready to. go out and kill somebody you know and. it's very it's a very popular book with. uh the Marine Corps and with Elite. military units because it's about kind.

of the warrior ethos whereas tides of. War is a story that's full of ambiguity. and the characters are not right and. wrong A lot of people are very flawed a. lot of bad stuff goes on so it's hard to. kind of find you know a character you. can really root for in that but it's. much more interesting to me because it. really gets into the ambiguities of. things which is the way the world really. is yeah um so read Gates of Fire first. let me ask you this then as a as an.

author and as a creative writer what. what is it about people that want that. good guy bad guy all the the Joseph. Campbell stuff the you know the the. ancient archetype or the ancient uh uh. structure of the the hero tale I think. that's exactly it Joe because we're each. of us is in a battle with that internal. monster whatever it is or in our in our. real life and we're usually being. overwhelmed by that battle you know we. don't understand what's going on or.

we're we're flagging in our passion for. it so if we can see a great movie you. know where Rocky comes out you know. hangs in there against Apollo Creed or. you know you name it we kind of come out. of that it's kind of encourages us we. say to ourselves you know it is possible. you know if I can suck it up if I can. you know be like uh you know like you. were just saying be the hero of the. movie of my life you know starting right. now and that's why it's a harder cell to. do something that's more ambiguous and. uh we like our fiction like with tidy.

endings like No Country for for Old Men. pissed me off really love that movie in. hindsight I love the performances I love. the story I love Tommy Lee Jones and. who's the the guy's name who played the. psycho that that uh Spanish gentleman. whoever he is he's awesome but it's it's. an amazing movie and then the end you're. like what the [ __ ] where's the why isn't. the bad guy dead why isn't the ending. wrapped up why isn't the good guy walk. off with the girl what are you selling. me you know I need to see happiness at.

the end I need it to be I think that's. one of the reasons we like the Spartans. so much it's because you know what the. Spartan does at every choice you know. there's those bracelets what wwjd you. know which is very ambiguous and. confusing if you actually read the Bible. like who the hell knows what he does. sometimes he brings a sword sometimes he. doesn't I don't know but you know if you. said what would a Spartan do the answer. is simple you know anybody go [ __ ] guy. that's what they do yes but but you know. the don't say that in the real spart.

today why what happens they get mad at. you yeah they don't like that they don't. like to live in the reality of the past. but you know for someone like you who. knows the Spartan code you know the. answer is pretty simple you could say. what a Spartan would do in each one of. these situations and that's some part of. us is admires that because we have such. an ambiguous kind of life that strict. adherence to a codee is a well we do. respond in stories to archetypes right. to the Knight or the Merlin like. character or something like that but of.

course and that's we love that's why we. love them in Stories the Gunslinger. whatever it is but of course in real. life you know we're a little bit of this. and a little bit of that and you know. it's not quite so simple yeah we respond. to the samurai we that's the the the one. that everybody loves when it comes to. martial arts the the Ronin you know the. one lone person person who lives by a. very strict code and we like to watch. them practice because we like to watch. their discipline and you know like in. every Steven Seagal movie that'd be a. scene where he was practicing like.

there's one where he was in a coma for. seven years and he gets out all a sudden. he's [ __ ] running up hills and and. throwing punches in the air you're like. damn he's back he's practicing like. leaving cigarettes out that burn more. time underwater like catching his. holding his that that Samurai uh mindset. that we know that the samurai will hold. up in combat we know that they won't. that their their character will be. bulletproof that not they're not going. to crumble right it's an inspiration to. us and I think why we like that Samurai.

I'm with you on that Joe is to Samurai. is an individual as opposed to the. Spartans that are a group or any you. know other kind of things and because we. know that we're alone in the world at. least that's how I experience the world. and so when we can see the samurai train. and have that dis when there's nobody. cracking a whip over his head you know. nobody's paying him nobody's patting him. on the back nobody's encouraging him. he's doing it all entirely. self-disciplined self-generated.

self-reinforced self- validated that's. very inspiring to us because we say well. [ __ ] you know maybe I can I can do and I. can tell from talking to you guys that's. how you live your lives you know you. fight that internal battle from the. morning you wake up the minute you wake. up through the whole day one of the. things I like to I like to train myself. I like I I write down like uh I have a. workout routine I write down all the. things that have to get done you know. this is all that's going to get done. today period this is going to get done. you know x amount of kettle bell swings.

x amount of chinups x amount of squats. and you're going to do all that it's not. going to you're you're not going to say. oh enough already I don't allow myself. so I train myself so I write all that. stuff down and then I do it but I love. that I can motivate myself that I don't. need anybody yelling at me to get all. this stuff done that's a that's very. important and I think when you can do. that like it's so daunting the beginning. is so daunting you're like a looking at. that piece of paper I got to do all that. [ __ ] like right now I'm comfortable I. don't want to do that and then when you.

just say ready go and then force. yourself it's it's the ability to create. movement the ability to create a uh to. accomplish goals like that's a that's an. exercise that's a something that you. exercise just like creativity just like. your ability to write and the stakes are. high too because when you actually. succeed and you do it you start to build. that personal power and that knowing. that you can put something down and you. will do it but then if you pull up short. or you cheat yourself a little bit you. start to build the other ah I didn't. quite make ah it's okay you know you.

start to get that that weas about. yourself weas great way describing and. then so the stakes are higher than just. that workout if you go out and set out. to do something you know you better you. better damn do it you know at the end I. actually had an experience today and I. like to play these games with myself too. sometimes it's a full workout sometimes. it's just a set and I know cuz we were. doing this podcast I was thinking back. to the warrior ethos and I know one of. the things the Spartans had to do is. they had to run a marathon with a a. mouthful of water and then they had to. spit the water back out at the end of. the marathon right and that was part of.

the training thing so I was like I've. never tried that that seems like it'd be. really hard to do so I set up the. treadmill at you know 8 and 8 and I was. doing a Tata protocol and which is 20. seconds of sprinting and then 10 seconds. of rest try to do that with a mouthful. of water that's not a marathon though. that's a tot thing I couldn't do a. marathon a full Mar the marathon would I. think it' be way harder to do what. you're doing yeah it CU you're sprinting. well it was and it was and it was a real. mentally it was as hard physically yeah.

well I said I was going to do a round of. I was going to do five and at three I. was like well if I just drink a little. bit of this water it be more comfortable. and I said no like you can't you can't. do that and then at the very end though. so I finish my five and the idea was to. spit the water back out and then I. thought to myself ah [ __ ] it I don't. want to spit the water back out I'll. just I'll just drink it and as soon as I. drunk it I knew like damn it I missed. that little bit of my regimen you know. so I cheated myself of a little bit of. what that goal was was to run the five.

and spit the water back out this water. that you're just crazy let me help you. out here let me help you out here that's. silly [ __ ] you did what you're supposed. to do the drinking the water at the end. you deserve that water you held that. [ __ ] thought that's you're absolutely. right is you're going to drink water. eventually anyway I was tell why would. you you're not depriving yourself of. water the exercise is to get through the. exercise with mouth full of water so. you're drinking water when I'll take the. other side Joe really you had to spit. the water out the next time when you do. spit the water out you'll feel yeah then.

you're going to get another drink of. water there's a [ __ ] drought why. would you do that there's a drought. going on drink the [ __ ] water that's. ridiculous unless you spit in a glass. then just drink it and then you're an. idiot why not just drink it it's already. cut out the middleman it's in your mouth. already as long as you get this a silly. argument as long as you get through it. but I we can talk about this for a while. but isn't it funny though that you. recognize that there is there's there's. a thing about cutting Corners that's. really dangerous cutting Corners in life. settling in life is [ __ ] dangerous it.

it'll lead to the it's the road to. mediocrity let me ask you guys both here. was there a moment for you in your life. your lives when you understood this or. is this in other words did you not. understand this at a certain point or. have this concept and then you suddenly. learned it I learned it slowly but. surely through a lifetime of struggle. and failure and some success and every. success cling to it like it's a new log.

that you found after you were swimming. in the ocean to the point where you. thought you were going to drown then. boom you find a log okay we got. something okay ready and then jump off. that log and keep going and make. yourself to another log that slowly but. surely I accumulated all this. information along with a lot of books a. lot of documentaries a lot of talking to. people that I found inspirational a lot. lot of martial arts a lot of uh talking. to instructors that explained like what. it's about to get through a hard. training session what it's about to. achieve your black belt what it's about. to be a champion what it's about to to.

to hit the highest levels and competing. competing was a big one competing in. martial arts as a boy shaped my brain. shaped who I am as a human being you. cannot have any [ __ ] when you're. throwing your bones at people when. you're you're involved in whatever it is. with some other trained killer and. you're both really good at knocking. people unconscious and you you're you're. planning on doing it to each other ready. go you know you your your brain does not. accept any [ __ ] you have to know. exactly who you are and you have to have.

a very objective assessment of your. abilities otherwise you're going to get. brained you know you're going to get a a. Bone's going to bounce off your head and. you're going to get concussed it's a. like very real consequence that very. rarely faces you in everyday life the. choices you make very rarely get you. concussed but when the goal is for. someone to knock you out like that's. their goal they're trying really hard to. do it and you know that that's the goal. like it's like one of the worst. consequences you can get in everyday. life other than dying you know it's it's.

a really hard one your own health your. own Consciousness you're going to get. knocked the [ __ ] out so that reality I. think forced me at a very early age to. just cut the [ __ ] don't cut Corners. look at it exactly what it is do. everything you have to do and also along. the lines learning that every time I. didn't. I felt terrible and that I felt weak I. if I didn't I wasn't in shape I felt. pathetic like if I didn't if I I got. tired in a match and that's why I lost.

it was unbearable unbearable just this. stink on me just would never wash off. you know so that's that's where I. learned from good answer for me I'm. still learning every every day oh me too. definitely me too it's like you know you. think you know and you think you get it. and then all of a sudden you'll be on. this weird path and you'll be like how. did I forget so much just now you know. like where am I what is this strange. place I find myself in and you have to. re this is not my beautiful house. exactly you have to retrace your steps. back and realize that you know things go.

in Cycles you know where it's at the top. of the cycle you may feel like you have. a good grasp but then you'll swing back. down again to some lesser state of. forgetfulness really where you have to. learn that you know relearn some things. back in be reminded of some other things. but for me I think the process one of. the defining moments for me actually. happened from a movie in this process it. was actually when I saw Braveheart as a. kid and I remember at that point it. really like struck me that the.

impracticality of going through all that. torture just to say the word Freedom you. know and I started I kind of I kind of. got I was like what I kind of got that. there was something you know something. else that some other kind of level that. you could push yourself through and I. remember I would go running and before I. would work out and stuff I was an active. kid I love playing around loved every. sport I could martial artarts whatever. but I was running on the beach and. normally when I would have stopped I. just didn't stop and I was like William. Wallace wouldn't have stopped and some.

part some part of me some part of me. then like some little inkling just. planted and then I I know many other. things many books many teachers many. internal things Carlos castan played a. big part um you know some of the totech. belief so many other different things. you know your book meeting Joe kind. too people right now guaranteed are. listening to this and they're going [ __ ]. I got to get my [ __ ] together and and. just that sometimes is all you need just. need a little spark and then nurture.

that spark turn it into a fire and. that's really what it is it's like we. Hunter Thompson had a great I I saved it. on my phone because uh I I read it. online the other day and it's it's so. poignant and beautiful but it was about. his uh quote was about music and about. uh some people uh say that music is uh. inspiration but what he says is he says. what they really mean is fuel and that. I've always needed fuel I'm a serious.

consumer on some nights I still believe. that a car with the gas needle on empty. can run about 50 more miles if you have. the right music very loud on the radio. you know and there's something about. that I I find that not just in music but. in conversations like this that I if I. could download this and listen to it as. podcast if I weren't a part of it I'd be. so [ __ ] psyched and the same thing. about your book I found it through your. book I found it through certain songs I. found it through movies I found it. through performances of uh mu musicians.

comedians everything it's it's it exists. everywhere around us and it's it's all. it's all Sparks it's all Sparks you grab. those Sparks and you make your own. fire that's it what do you still. learning Steve same stuff you know same. stuff never never stops and I'm thinking. listening to you guys I mean my. experience was not like in martial arts. or something like that it was more in in. writing daytoday of would I [ __ ] off. today you know would I drop the ball.

today would I stop you know or like. Aubrey you were saying you're running a. little farther on the beach like what. would William Wallace do you know um can. I push myself a little farther or even. beyond the idea of like whipping. yourself or anything like that the idea. of like um being kind to yourself being. gentle to yourself like if you're. training a thoroughbred race horse. you're not going to beat the crap out of. that horse you're going to make it fun. for that horse right right so to do that. and like you were saying Joe you you. find a log that's floating you know this.

worked today I did this it worked here. it is the end of the day I feel good so. tomorrow let me try to do that again. right and then you don't you don't quite. succeed you know but then you find. another log and little by little you put. those logs together and Truth start to. form in your mind this works this. doesn't work and then also like you guys. say you get it from other people you get. it from books you get it from. conversations you get it from music it. reinforces itself like this conversation. now is reinforcing it for me and I'm.

sure it's reinforcing it for you guys. too it's like what's interesting to me. is it doesn't matter what Pursuit you're. in the the the laws seem to be the same. you know I'm sure that if we had a a a. weaver in here or a Potter or somebody. you know that made furniture they would. say the exact same thing you know I get. a piece of wood in and that piece of. wood is telling me it wants to be a. couch you know. um so it's interesting that there there.

are laws and we're just sort of learning. them and uncovering them as we go and. again this is what moushi spoke of and. this is one of the things that moushi. um put in his book where he described. his pursuit of calligraphy his pursuit. of poetry all parallel all the same. disciplines and in in a pursuit of of. when you're writing poetry or when. you're drawing something or painting. something you're still trying to get at. that same source that Pure Source.

whatever it is whether it's a cartoon or. whether it's a Steven pressfield novel. about Greek history whatever it is it's. the same thing it's like it's this weird. creating energy that you're trying to. tap into it's getting rid of that mind. boy and getting into the uh the higher. nobler. but what's the what the [ __ ] is the Mind. boy there for though is he doesn't he do. something good he's he's good at solving. puzzles is what he's good at he's good. at pool is he is he what makes you play. pool he's not good at pool but he's good.

he's good at he's good at doing you know. doing the the mechanistic puzzle work of. the human life you know figuring things. out putting on different masks socially. adapting you know modifying behavior in. a certain way I would call it the ego as. opposed to the self self with a capital. S you know it's the. it's and maybe we're talking about. tribal ways and and seeing those. mysterious worlds and all that other. thing maybe that's the self and somehow. when we became civilized We Shrunk it.

down to to the ego that knows how to. build a wall or something like that but. doesn't know how to access and then what. what you guys are talking about when I'm. talking about is breaking through those. walls and trying to get even for just a. minute at a time to that that thing. that's got some magic to it mhm yeah. creating and I I feel bad for people who. don't get to create I really do whether. I mean even if it's creating like at. your job you know whether you're you're.

a carpenter or you know someone who puts. things together like there's something. about making something that wasn't there. before and now it's there there's. something about that whether it's even. just a performance or you know a song or. whatever there's something about that. that's one of the few magical things in. life well that's what God does right. allegedly he creates so we as human. beings when we can do that that's pretty. cool yeah he also creates nuclear bombs. you know creating also meant what. Oppenheimer did you know it's all.

creating that's that's creating as well. so it's a very strange thing that what. you drop out of the anola gay that kills. a half a million people that's creative. too it's kind of [ __ ] it's almost there. that destructive force is also part of. you know is part of the creation you. know I was talking to someone who Who I. Really respect and I was asking him. about you know that kind of um the the. demon Force you know that purely. destructive force and it doesn't have to. be an actual angel or demon you know. kind of conceptualized religiously but.

whatever that destructive force is. that's tapped in and he's basically. saying that you know when that's really. high it's just it's just doing its job. you know there has to be that that. opposing force from which creation can. push forward its strength you know and. so yeah these these nuclear bombs do it. in a dramatic and terrifying way but. that's one opposing Force by which you. know you can try and flourish life in. spite of you know so there's some kind. of weird Harmony in in all of that that.

was created in the soup to begin with. you know everything has to be find the. balance but I do think that we get way. off balance one way or the other in. certain as and you see that in people. and I think the key is you know you can. really only there's only one corner of. the universe you can be sure to change. and I think that's a quote from uh from. Huxley actually and that's yourself and. that's what you can be sure to change so. bringing yourself back into balance. everybody does that guess what the. world's Back in Balance you know so you.

can be sure you know take that step to. get yourself in balance and then slowly. all these other things will start to lay. out the dominoes will I want to ask you. a question about writing do you have. when you start writing and you have an. idea like but I'm reading Stephen King's. book on writing it's a really. interesting yeah really good book yeah. and one of the things that he said that. I found was incredibly fascinating is. that he doesn't make a plot before he. gets going he might have some ideas but. he he creates the characters he uh he.

starts writing their dialogue and then. what they do is up to them and then [ __ ]. just goes down and which is incredible. when you think about the plots of some. of Stephen King's books especially like. the Gunslinger and you know the St I. mean what you that just came out of your. head like you didn't even plot that out. that's crazy do you plot your stuff out. do you have like a quirk board where you. put like index cards on it and you move. them around or how do you how do you. write I I do sort of I mean you have to.

do that eventually do you use scrier do. you ever try that no I don't do that. kind of stuff you don't do anything on. uh it's just a it's a um one of those uh. programs that shows you corkboard and. put lets you move index cards around. virtual corkboard yeah that's a little. to Mechanical for me but I do try to I. mean a lot of times I will. start purely on Instinct and just take. it from there but I think I'm always. asking myself what's the what's the.

finish what is this going to you know. I'm always trying to get the final. moment the climax and then work. backwards from there because within any. idea the how can I let's see uh one of. the books I wrote was was about uh it's. called the virtues of war was about. Alexander the Great and the way it kind. of came to me was the first two. sentences came to me and the first two. sentences were I have always been a.

soldier I have known no other life and I. when I heard those in my head I said oh. that's that's great but I had no idea. who was saying it or where it went but I. so it in a way it's like a finding the. the tip tippy top part of a buried. asteroid or something so I sort of try. to just partly follow Instinct and say. well okay what's the next sentence you. know what's the next scene but this then.

I'll kind of pull back out of it and say. what is this [ __ ] thing about why. what is buried what idea is buried in. those two sentences and then and then. I'll try to does this make any sense Joe. yes yes yes yes and then I'll try to. push it forward to the Finish what's the. climax of this thing and CU otherwise I. think maybe Stephen King is a genius and. he can just kind of Plunge in and just. throw [ __ ] against the wall and it'll. stick but I think most of us for me I'll.

get lost if I if I do that you know I'll. just write this scene and that scene the. other scene and and you know there's no. you know I'll get lost in it so I kind. of need to know if I my sailboat is. heading to Tahiti that helps me a lot. then I know I got to go south of Hawaii. and you know north of wherever the hell. Tahiti is right so um for me in other. words it's kind of a combination of. instinct and just winging it but also. then pulling back to the left brain and. asking what's this about where's it.

going and and then structuring it back. from that I don't know if that answers. your question but I don't know I it's. it's interesting because he didn't go. too far into depth as far as what I've. read at least that um he I don't know if. along the way he writes things down or. sets up an ending along the way or he. might he's one of those he might [ __ ]. write the ending first you know I mean. who knows I have no idea but his point. being is that when he's writing he's. just sort of he's not following like.

today he's going to write down that. Sally meets Betty and Betty can on fire. with their tits but you know if you have. the idea of Carrie you know that the. climax is going to be Carri you know. blows everybody away right right so you. don't have to. be to analytic to figure that out so he. kind of knows what's coming maybe may he. might not have known that that was going. to you know the Carri one's a really. interesting one cuz uh he was throwing. that away and his wife pulled it out of. the trash yeah that's amazing isn't it.

yeah that was his first big break his. wife pulled it out of the trash and was. like listen don't don't quit this one. goes to show. you how a lot of times we don't even. recognize what great stuff we've done. well it's also probably cuz he was drunk. and on coke his dad as well he was was I. mean he maybe the opposite maybe he was. sober you know he goes off about his uh. his massive amount of drug use when he. was writing books he wrote entire books. that he doesn't remember at all Kujo.

apparently doesn't remember at all does. remember you can read it for the first. time what a what a joy it's awesome whoa. this is great boy you talk about a movie. that doesn't hold up I tried to watch. Kujo the other day I was like shut this. [ __ ] St that Do's stupid shoot that. [ __ ] dumb thing this movie SU like it. wasn't scary at all do you um you've had. quite a few of your movies uh your books. rather that have become movies is that a. frustrating process but well the legend. of bager Vance was a big one how many. different movies books have you written.

that have become movies I think that's. the only one I mean I've had I've. written screenplays but that became. movies but uh uh let me put it this way. I've never had a good experience yet oh. wow you know maybe uh I'm unlucky but. I've never had a good experience yet I'm. sorry I thought you had at least two. that had become maybe it's just I've. how many screenplays have you uh have. have been made from your books you I'm. not sure maybe five or six that's what. i' read um so you're all. terrible what is it about that like they.

can't it's is it because they're trying. to condense it to an hour and a half two. hours or is it maybe I did a shitty job. from the start you know no is it the. Hollywood machine that that takes. something and can can take your ideas. which are like as you're talking about. the tides of War there's some ambiguous. characters and it's yeah I wish I knew. Joe you know I think some sometimes. writers get really lucky and you know. the Godfather comes out fantastic right. you know every scene is perfect you know. um and other.

times you know and then there's there's. the the sort of the um the politics of. of Hollywood where like if you're. casting um the character of Bagger Vance. let's say and you want to cast Morgan. Freeman who seems like he would be the. perfect guy but they run the numbers and. they say well Morgan Freeman is not. going to justify a budget of XYZ so. maybe we need to so we can't cast him we. have to C you know in other words. decisions are driven. by other.

than I would have to other than Instinct. you know and I would have to disagree. sir I think some of your movies are. amazing including King Kong Lives uh. Above the Law please you were you made. Above the Law free Jack I was one of. three three people that was the only one. I ever actually like above the law. credit to Andy Davis the director that I. mean look everybody Goofs on stepen. Sagal but above the law was [ __ ]. great at the time blend together. homogenous Steven Seal movie that last.

14 hours it shouldn't because there's. the one that launched them that was the. one that was the best above the law was. the best one there's a lot of silliness. to it of course there is but it's a. goddamn cop movie it's a it's about a. badass guy who's kicking ass and you. know [ __ ] people up there's no way to. do that where it's not silly and army of. one with Dolph London did you really do. that please holy [ __ ] man all the I know. you guys were going to do this what was. the uh someone told a fib and Brian. caught him why is it about uh King Kong.

I mean what is it about uh the um. terrible terrible that was but that was. the movie that was going on in when you. were 40 when you yeah right we were. talking about your life being in a. shambles yeah yeah that was that movie. yeah what is it about King Kong that we. keep making that [ __ ] movie over and. over again happens they keep he's an. archetype the big strong gorilla same. thing as the werewolf I suppose but it's. the same no it's worse cuz the same. goddamn story he always falls off the. [ __ ] building An American Werewolf in.

London is different than wolf man with. Bono Del Tor there there's a lot more. places to go when they keep redoing that. goddamn King Kong movie the same [ __ ]. thing happens every time it's like. nobody ever figures that they can make a. King Kong movie where he doesn't die you. know do you understand that it was a. movie that like somebody made it to. begin with not written in a stone T you. can do a whole different King Kong story. but nope nope get a blond girl get a. building climb shoot him down done what. is does that frustrate the [ __ ] out of.

you as a creative guy like what they. they want to keep doing the same goddamn. thing over and over again well I'm not. even sure how to answer that Joe I mean. there there's you know I want to do the. same thing over and over again sometimes. I mean there are sort of principles of. Storytelling that you want to do you. know know but I I mean I know what you. mean and it is it is pretty frustrating. what what do you you know you give a lot. of advice for writing fiction in this. especially the authentic swing um but. what about some of your non-fiction.

works you know how is that different how. is that process different than crafting. a story and characters um because you've. done an amazing job you know writing. non-fiction as well well of course the. only non-fiction I've done is stuff. about the writing process rather than. something like uh you know um uh All the. President's Men or something right right. right so it it that's kind of yeah it's. a sort of a specialized genre dactic. kind of self-help my theory is uh that.

it has to be a story anyway you know it. uh my partner Shan coin is a big uh. believer in act one act two act three no. matter what it is even if it doesn't. have any characters it's got to start. somewhere have a middle and then and. then have an end so so I I sort of try. to follow the same the same process make. it a story a little bit where the reader. plays a plays a role then so the reader. is kind of the the Protegé and you're.

the mentor the reader follows along. rooting for you or you know even if your. your character is only salted in there a. little bit here and there you know going. from one Fiasco to another to another. but it all sort of if you if if you do. it right it has a flow to it and it. builds to a climax like the war of art. starts kind of out with a it's in three. parts my partner Sean figured that out. you know it's it's what what is the. enemy resistance second part is what's. how do you how do you overcome that.

enemy turning pro and the third part is. getting into the metaphysics of it what. does it all mean and that's sort of a. natural progression you know what's the. what's the metaphysical aspect of it and. at the end what's the what's the. spiritual side of it right that's that's. the aspect of the what you've written in. your book that makes it not really a. book about writing it's not really a. book about the creative process it's a. book about achieving a mindset it's a. book A book about achieving a victory.

over this resistance thing and the. achieving this state of mind that just. no there's no nonsense cut out all the. nonsense and get to it state of mind you. know it's like a it's a psychological. handbook yeah it's the the writing as as. you know I think you even point this out. it's just a metaphor for the process. same same with golf and this which I. didn't even realize when I was doing it. you know it kind of became clear. afterwards are you a big golf man is. that why you keep W about golf when I. was a kid I was I grew up as a caddy oh.

you know so from the time I was like 11. till all the way through college you. know back in the days when there were. such things as caddies so I kind of grew. up in the catty Shack just like uh you. know Rodney Dangerfield and uh but since. then I've haven't really been able to. play so really why is that I'm working. for a you that's hilarious so you don't. give yourself a chance to like take a. little day off and go play golf I mean I. do that every once in a while but I'm so. lousy it's pretty depressing you know. it's like I remember when I I got. graduated from college moved to New York. got married first day we moved into the.

city the my car was vandalized and they. stole my golf clubs I didn't play for. another 20 years you know and then by. the time I did then you know that's. interesting all my memory the love for. the sport seems to bleed out in this in. this I love this I love the game it's a. you might one of the weird people that. like watching golf more than you like. playing golf well I would love playing. golf more if I played a little better. than I play so do you get very. self-critical on yourself when you play. golf is that does that bring up a lot of.

that I I mean I've been so bad for so. long that I kind of forgive myself now. you know it's like isn't that part of. now my my main goal is just not to hurt. myself you. know get through it try to enjoy it I'm. not kidding either you do do you walk it. or do you take the cart. uh well I I try to walk when I can you. know but um pretty much carer the way it. is these days you know I think people. are being [ __ ] I think if you're if. you're going to knock that ball that far. away you should go walk after that I.

agree with it's too bad that and you. should carry your own [ __ ] clubs. devolve to that point we're cowards we. we're cowards and [ __ ] we have other. people carry our clubs we get in a thing. yeah but it's fun to drive those when. you're driving it is fun to drive those. but going play some serious golf you. need to whack that [ __ ] and then after. the problem when you really suck though. is if you walk there will be people just. so mad at you right behind you cuz. you're taking forever you got to go got. walk to the left and then you got to. walk to the right and then you got at. least if it's me then you walk to the.

left you know I'm all over the course. it's so cool I was in um I guess it's. like Beverly Hills the other day at a. meeting and I'm uh at this uh Network. and I'm looking out the window and they. have this uh giant view of this golf. course and just the mass of the golf. course I had to take it in in my head. I'm like how much is that worth like I. guess it was Beverly Hill's country club. or one of those big country clubs down. there and I'm like this is a giant piece. of land in the middle of like the most. expensive real estate in the country.

like this is crazy that's a $300 million. plot of land it is amazing that's La. Country Club there's two courses there. yeah so that's a lot of land but imagine. what that's worth it's nuts but it's. what a what a wacky sport you're going. to walk around the land you know and if. rains you're [ __ ] you know. it's a crazy sport where you need a. giant piece of land and so like. influential as far as like business. meetings and you know people that love. to like get together and and play golf. together it's like it's a big part of.

the camaraderie and it's also I think. for business it reveals something about. the person you're playing with that's. pretty unique because it will bring to. the surface those parts of themselves. that are a little ugly or a little weird. or Noble and and good you know when you. play with somebody you get to know more. than just your conversation you know cuz. you see if they're going to fudge it. they're going to cheat a little bit if. they're going to get really. self-critical and oh you're you know get. all mad at them Brian calling had an. instance when his father was playing.

golf with this man and his mother was. there and his mother watched the guy. playing golf with his dad cheat and then. told him do not go into business with. this guy and she told him why and he was. like whoa like and Brian as a Young Man. remembers that like that's just it's. just a game and she was like no it's not. no it's not just a game it is just a. game so why did he cheat at just a game. because that's what he does right that's. who he is that sleazy.

[ __ ] yeah so in that yeah you. can learn but I've heard women complain. um it's an interesting argument that. there's like a patriarchy thing about. these uh men's club meetings on golf. courses that they could never get in on. this and that you know the would never. be in even if they were in that Circle. they would almost like be it would be. the white elephant in the room you know. and that they would have to learn how to. play golf and go in order to have a like. an equal stake in the companies and an.

equal stake in the future you have to. kind of be a part of this little goofy. club with these [ __ ] chasing after a. ball it's really very weird they can. learn it's not MMA yeah but why should. they have to I mean shouldn't it be the. men don't either though right but IDE. well some of them do though that's the. thing in order to be like in that sort. there are people that in order to be in. the group with them you have to do the. things they do they have to you have to. like the kind of music they like and. it's a part of the tribe thing it's a. part of our our tribal instincts you. have to be you have to like two people.

don't like working together if one's a. Republican and one's Democrat they. [ __ ] hate each other you know and and. I've seen it in offices like this. [ __ ] liberal breeding hard over here. this guy. everything you know and then there's. another one this [ __ ] redneck [ __ ]. over here you know if he could have his. way you know we don't have slavery again. and there that kind of [ __ ] is just it's. so prevalent it's interesting that the. the the game of golf sort of like it. encompasses an aspect of that tribal. Behavior you know I think you can.

probably do that with most sports too. though I mean how much do you learn. about somebody when you roll with them. Joe oh you learn everything you learn. everything right you learn everything. you learn who they are especially when. they're tired yeah you learn a lot about. person when they're tired some dudes can. keep going some good just [ __ ] fall. down they just flatten out yeah it's. interesting it's um it's you learned. about pool too same thing yeah same. thing Pursuit any any sort of a Pursuit. it's if it becomes hard you know you. learn who can keep it together who who's.

going to fall apart just you know it's. and and doing this it's the practice for. for life you know I think that's why I. always innately people who've been in. athletics male or female have such a. much greater Affinity towards and trust. you know when they've been to a high. level and they've felt that pressure of. BS and obligations and expectations and. pushed through you know I know the. feeling when you know some days in these. biggest games in high school we'd get a. couple thousand people's Texas Sports. and it would be so intense I would just. want to go to sleep before the game I.

just want to curl up it's just really. tired right now but then you get out. there and you feel the rush and you put. your you know put your forearm into. somebody on that first play and get your. first you know hard drive to the basket. and then this feeling just kind of. explodes in you and you're in it you. know but making it through that process. without folding there was also other. games where I never got that kind of. restrictive energy out and I played like. [ __ ] you know just terrible and you. learn about that you learn how to deal. with the pressure not internalize it. push through and and man so many times.

in business and these challenges you. know it applies it applies the only way. you learn pressure is to deal with. pressure exactly you got to get used to. that [ __ ] got to feel her know what she. does how she tricks you how she messes. with your head that's it messes with. your head you got to learn that too. that's a that's the big one just like. you know essentially it's resistance. it's the same thing that doubt that. creeping doubt makes its way you got to. figure out a way mind boy mind boy and. we all uh contributing to this uh.

Collective guide book of how to be a. human yeah you know you know one thing. I've just recently started playing with. it occurred to me that there's little. fears that we think of as trivial and a. trivial fear like a fear of spiders or. and and there's also things like for. example for me I have this block about. doing a backflip on a trampoline even. like a super safe super big one and I. can back flip into pools I can do you. know I'm a fairly a athletic guy but as. soon as I go to do it on a trampoline.

which is fairly soft my body just. freezes up and I lock and I was talking. to to my friend about it and for me you. know when you allow these fears that are. disproportionate away from the actual. danger to take hold it's almost giving. credence you know giving res like this. little bit of victory that can apply to. other things or if you're you know so. afraid of spiders you can't even look at. it you know just by doing that it's. acknowledging that you have some certain. limitations you know and it's giving. that other Force that's going to limit.

you in life and deny you from achieving. your goal just a little bit more power. so even for me and this is something I'm. just recently playing with these little. trivial fears that we just kind of avoid. like ah this doesn't matter you know who. cares when am I going to see a spider I. don't I'll [ __ ] deal with it when it. comes or who cares if I do a back flip. on a trampoline you know in effect. practically it doesn't matter but as far. as doing the little things to battle. against these forces that are constantly. looking to confine us I think maybe it. matters you know like maybe pushing.

through these seemingly trivial things. it counts you know anise set yourself. the task Aubrey to do that oh yeah for. sure I decided that like last like a few. days ago I haven't been home yet I'm. walking out to the trampoline and I'm. pushing through that moment where my. legs just say huh nobody you're not. doing this and I'm going to do it I hope. I hope I can I don't know but I'll see. I'll video it or something I mean I. figure it out I would guess that the. backflip is a metaphor for something. else for you it stands for something.

right um I mean we all have that stuff. for me it's like claustrophobia yeah you. know elevator certain elevators I can't. get on you know airplanes you know yeah. and I know that it's it relates to other. stuff you know it's not it's not. isolated you know have you ever done a. sensory deprivation tank experience no. never have oh you need to get will you. do it if I hook it up for you I don't. know I get claustrophobic in there. that's what I'm saying you can figure. out a way through that come on man well.

tell me what it walk the walk baby come. on it's a tank that's filled with water. and uh have you ever seen the movie. Altered States yes that's it it's a it's. a tank filled with water the water's the. same temperature as your skin and it's. filled with salt so there's like 1,000. lbs of salt in the water and I'm getting. scared just you lie down in it and you. float you float you're above you breathe. cuz your your body is uh half underwater. but there so it's so dense with salt you. float you close the lid on the door and.

you're in complete silence complete. darkness your your ears are you. shouldn't Panic can we leave the door. open no no how dare you how dare you not. walk the walk what is going on here. we're learning so much about Steven. pressfield yeah it's um but if you're if. you really do have an issue with uh. claustrophobia that would be the place. of cure great great way to get through. it yeah you'll get through it 100%. because it's the most claustrophobic. place in the universe oh sounds great it. separates you from your. body aming about a coughin let me.

explain to you what it what the the. benefit is the benefit is when you're in. that water your water is the the water. is the same temperature as your skin so. you don't feel the water you're floating. so it's a feeling of weightlessness. total silence total darkness a complete. absence of sensory input so because. there's nothing coming in your brain is. so much more powerful it's a weird thing. it's like the way I describe it is like. if we were having this conversation. there was a jackhammer next door it' be. very hard to concentrate we would want. to move away from the sound of that. Jackhammer but life is a jackhammer it's.

a jackhammer on your ass when you're. sitting in this chair like as we're. sitting your your ass is constantly. sending signals like yep that's a. leather chair under my ass you know yep. these are things under my armpits yep. there's Aubrey yep there's Steven. pressfield Yep this is a wood table this. this shit's all coming in and we just. don't we just completely take it for. granted when you're inside that tank. nothing comes in you're floating in. space completely weightless and in the. absence of sensory input the Mind. becomes supercharged because the mind. has all this resources that all of a.

sudden are available that it thought it. was going to have to deal with the. weight of the body and moving along the. ground and avoiding objects and social. cues and all that stuff that it doesn't. have to deal with right now so the mind. has all these resources free and you it. becomes a very self-exam examining self. uh objective analysis of uh of your life. almost like a seminar on your life and. then it becomes a psychedelic experience. the more comfortable you get with it the. more you have like Visions but I think. for you creatively man the things that.

you would come up with inside of that. tank would be amazing once you got over. it you got a couple of bucks buy one put. in your basement have a panic button put. in amus is there ready to visit start. seeing St we're going to force you to. walk the walk sir this is ridiculous. idul you need to get in there Aubrey's. done it he loves it yeah it's it's a. really interesting experience I think. the same for these fears are. superstitions I've realized too that you. allow these superstitions to persist and. that's just another head on the the.

resistance Hydra you know what I mean. and and I noticed like obsessive. compulsive [ __ ] that people do they. noticed it today you know today was you. know it's a podcast where I'm reaching a. lot of people and so I'm I'm kind of. amped up and so I was picking my. kombuchas and I was like H which one. should I pick and then all of a sudden I. was like well maybe I should pick this. one over this one I was like Hey dummy. like stop being superstitious they're. all the same like it doesn't matter but. I so you were thinking that if you got. the wrong one you'd have a bad time on. the show yeah maybe not all that far but.

I was like this one has better Juju than. the other one and then I I just stopped. myself and I was like just because. there's like a pressured event all these. little things will come out that. normally normally I just rip that thing. off the shelf never think about it but. because you know as you said you're. moving from lower to higher and I'm. trying to bring you know my best self to. this to this show you know I was like. stressed about these little things and I. had to stop myself and say hey this is. [ __ ] like you can't allow these. trivial things to bother you it's just. another form of resistance in this point.

because the pressure's on so your mind's. like oh there's luck and Omens and if. the birds fly this way or that way you. got to get rid of that [ __ ] too you know. these trivial fears and these trivial. superstitions you know I'm really think. that you got to cut those out you know. and just. ruthlessly but I'll take the other side. of that get in that t [ __ ] I think I. think there is luck yeah I think there. is funu or whatever it is I mean if you. think about people are getting married. right a couple's getting married they.

put in tremendous thought trust. me but doesn't everybody put tremendous. thought into what day are we getting. married where are we getting married are. we going to get on the cliff in Malibu. or whatever it is and why did they do. that cuz it's going to be either lucky. it'll be lucky for them or like when. you're naming a child and you're trying. to say well what name am I going to give. this child right don't you whether you. think so or not you feel like [ __ ] if I. give this my daughter the wrong name.

it's going to [ __ ] up her entire life or. should just change it to Aubrey or vice. versa the right name yeah so I mean. you're saying that we were saying before. right that there are dragons possibly. flying through the air that we just. can't see right now because we're not in. a psychedelic state. why isn't it true that there's luck in. in you know I mean certainly the Chinese. Japanese believe in that right you get. with I think it's a slippery slope and. it can it can be a virtual yeah it can. be a virt you look like someone like.

Raphael Nadal it's somehow he makes it. works but he's got to tie and retie his. shoe you know 12 times to get it right. you know if he doesn't get it right he's. not going to play that point right you. know and he's going to have you get you. can bring it it's logical conclusion you. can take it too far yeah it's logical. conclusion is always in the realm of. wackiness I don't think that there's. nothing there sure you know I I can't. prove it but I think there's something. but I think it has to do a lot more I. mean I think it has a lot more to do. with your own kind of intent you know. when I go to Vegas the only game I like.

to play is is crap so anybody who's. played enough craps and rolled the dice. you got to be a little bit you got to. believe in love a little bit I mean. you'll feel these moments where you just. feel invincible and goes out pool to. pool as well there's there's some guys. who uh when you play nineball I play in. a lot of tournaments and nine balls. there's a lot of luck involved in nine. ball there's a lot of skill because you. play from one to nine but any ball that. goes in even if you don't make it on. purpose it counts including the nine. ball which is the game-winning ball so. there's some guys that just ride the.

nineball like they get ball in hand when. they scratch so they'll set up a ball. behind another ball and just whack that. ball on the nine ball hoping it bounces. around the table and falls in somewhere. because if it does they win and there's. this one [ __ ] that I play in. this tournament with that drives. everybody crazy because every time he. gets Q ball in hand it doesn't matter if. there's three balls on the table one of. them is the nine he sends the ball into. the nine whacks it and lets it fly. around but when he's on a hot streak. they fall they fall like rain and it's.

I've seen it happen and I've seen this. where people go [ __ ] this guy. just won again you know and he won by. just total luck just crashing the balls. together and that nine ball finds a way. into a hole somewhere and he when he's. on it's tangible yeah and and to me the. distinction is is you're putting out. your own intent you know and I think. there is there is a key in the universe. there there's kind of a an access point. where if you put your intent and put. your belief in into that whether you're. rolling dice I do and it gets a little.

fuzzy here but I believe that there are. some forces at work this kind of. momentum force that causes seemingly. chance events to more line up in your. way and I know this is a very. controversial topic but it just feels. that's the way I can't I couldn't prove. it of course but that's the way it feels. to me when I'm in those moments you know. where where it feels like you can. control things that you would think are. out of your control by the will of your. own intent and belief and that's you. know not just my belief that's the. belief of many of the shamanistic. cultures is that cult believe that you.

know what's really interesting that. can't be statistically proven what's. really interesting I had uh Sam Harris. on the podcast he's he's coming back. again at the end of this month and he. was talking about the hotand uh. phenomena of of basketball where guys. just just all that they just can't miss. statistically it's not real well no that. that study I have a big problem with. that study because the way they did that. study help me the way they did that. study is they measured the hot hand by. when three baskets in a row went in well.

anybody who's played basketball knows I. can be have my head in my ass and make. three baskets in a row it doesn't mean I. have the hot hand only you know when you. have the hot hand like you feel it it. feels sensibly different same like in. pool if you were going to measure people. who are on on a on the roll and pool and. measuring it by okay the person who. after they run five four or five balls. well it could have been an easy run that. you just hit five balls but when you're. in the zone and you're really feeling it. it's a different thing you're absolutely. right and so they have to you would have.

to basically go to basketball players. and say oh you know they'd have to hold. up a little push a little button you. know say you know what the problem with. that is [ __ ] that it would [ __ ] up their. Zone F there's moments that you have in. pool right there was a moment I was. playing in pool uh it was me and my. friend Eric crisp Eric Cris is a guy who. uh he's a que maker makes Sugar Tree. cues we were playing and I was [ __ ]. running out like every time I got to the. table if you left me a shot I was. running out like a pro we're playing on. a tight Diamond but it was craziness I. just I couldn't miss I just had have.

this feel of where the ball we had been. playing for like seven hours and I was. just completely lubed up high as all. hell and I just had this Zone I had this. feel for where the ball was going I knew. exactly where it was going at all times. I can't do it forever and then the next. day I played again and I was terrible. for like the first two hour I only had. two hours to play that time and I. couldn't get it back like it was gone. but I know it was there the night before. it was there man it was there and. because even he was going Jesus Christ. like I never seen you play this good.

before I'm like I've never played this. good before it's never happened but I'm. in that thing I'm I I know how to do it. right now it's locked in it's a Zone. what is that and you only feel it what. is that what's that zone wow who knows. you know I mean it's just what you're. talking about Joe you get into that. place where the the the uh the Mind boy. goes away that's not luck and you're. tapping that's not luck no I don't think. it is luck that's I don't I'm not sure. what it is but something lines up with. something because we've all been there. one way or another Stephen King saying.

that he didn't even remember certain. books that he wrote Because He that's. where he was is that luck or is that. cocaine I Think Like Cocaine Z whatever. the zone is that's unluck cocaine is. never connected to. luck yeah that zone it's your authentic. swing it's when you're really in the. doing what it is that you do and nothing. else is blocking you you well sort of. it's also with with pool it's um it's. processing information because there's. information that's coming back from the. queue there's information that's coming.

back from your arm your hands and then. when you process that information over a. long period of time then you get so much. data that you really understand the the. Dynamics of the table you really. understand the mechanics of your arm you. really understand how hard exactly you. have to hit that ball to make it travel. exactly as far as you want it to there's. this weird thing that goes on and then. but there's this Tipping Point moment. where you're accumulating accumulating. maybe it's gradual more data and then.

all of a sudden it hits a Tipping Point. where you're you're there it's. gone yeah and that's that's where the. weirdness happens that's where I think. there's a little bit of magic but the. thing about pool much like everything. else is that there's this mindset that. must be maintained and if if you think. you're going to miss you'll [ __ ] miss. there's a weird thing about pool you. could line it up right everything's you. like [ __ ] I'm going to miss blank and. you miss it's weird it's it seems like. it's such a straightforward thing the. arm moves straight it hits into the ball.

the ball goes straight nope if you think. you're going to miss if you decide right. before you're doing it [ __ ] I hope I. don't miss you're going to miss so how. do you diffuse that when that little. nasty Devil comes up either in writing. or in pool how do you diffuse that. little voice that comes up seems to be a. self prophecy well you've done it you've. done it you know I mean there must have. been voices at times that say and it is. a form of resistance right well the. thing about writing of course is is. always rewriting yeah it's not like you. shooting pool and you have that one.

moment you know you can screw it up and. then come back tomorrow and do it a. little better that's the great thing. about writing so what about when you're. taking that shot Joe and you get that. little nasty voice how do you reset. yourself stop I stop I stop I stop the. voice first of all and uh I usually sit. up for a second stroke my queue again. put it down I go through like the whole. reset that's a very important thing. professionals will tell you that people. actually coach that like Max Everly. coaches that that uh when you're down a. shot if you don't like it stand up and.

then begin your whole pre-shot ritual. again get back into position make sure. your arms in line your que's in line go. back again and approach it the same way. don't ever take a shot where you think. you're going to miss but I've done it. I'll do it tonight you know I do it. every time I play it's like it's I'm. it's a it's like I said it's a swim it's. not a mountain climb you don't get to. the top and plant the flag you never win. you never win you never win with. anything you just got to keep going you. you get way better than you used to be. but there's still if you're as long as. you're pushing yourself as long as. you're still trying to create as long as.

you're still trying to get movement. going you're going to it's not going to. work all the time there's going to be. the flubs but those flubs I love them. because those those signal growth. moments for me that at least that's how. I have uh managed to to to to navigate. them every time I [ __ ] something up like. I can look back in my career as a. comedian and my biggest growth periods. came after I [ __ ] ate a plate of [ __ ]. on stage and then I'm like o I don't. want to do that ever again and then I. figured out and even like weird sets. today like that are was like mediocre or.

I don't like see things didn't come. together right or I was tired or I. wasn't in comedy shape woo those things. [ __ ] fire me up man nothing makes me. want to write more nothing makes me want. to perform more yeah no I hear you I. hear you. 100% well listen man I think this is a. long enough podcast it's an awesome one. it's been an honor how'd you find out. about us who told you that we were. talking about you uh well I've run into. people all the time who are big fans of. your podcast you know and they say oh. Joe Rog he's fantastic you know but also.

I think we've been in touch via Cali. ottinger right my publicity gal and uh. you know I think uh you know people have. said to me Hey Joe is you always talking. about your books you got to get on the. show you know and then I think the there. been a few times when we've sort of. tried to or I've tried to reach out and. something got in the way or something so. finally resistance finally we did it we. beat it thank you very much it's a real. honor real priv Jo it's a real pleasure. to be here with the werewolves Aubrey.

it's a great if you ever have a book. that's coming out that you want to. promote we would be happy to have you on. again I would love it and we'll promote. the [ __ ] out of it and I guarantee you a. lot of people are going to buy them just. from listening to this the war of art is. the one that I recommend if you're. looking for a book that's a a great book. on motivation a great book on overcoming. resistance in the creative process I. haven't read the authentic swing but I. certainly will and I'm going to get into. games of f Gates of Fire tonight I'm. going to get into that tonight and uh. anything else people need to find you on.

on Twitter it's s pressfield on Twitter. do you do that or you have some else do. that I don't know about that but uh you. don't [ __ ] around with tweets but I do. have a website you know then a Blog and. it's just your blog is very good by the. way just been getting into it Ste Steven. pressfield yeah okay um so that's s st e. v n not like King Steven pressfield with. two s's uh f i e l d uh thank you very. much man that was awesome I really. really really enjoyed that thanks lot.

you guys a real pleasure and uh thanks. to our sponsors thanks to uh Legal Zoom. go to Legal zoom.com uh use a code name. Rogan and save yourself some money. thanks also to stamps.com go to. stamps.com use the code word JRE and get. yourself a. $110 bonus offer special offer whatever. the hell you want to call it and um go. to meeting uh go to meeting.com use the. code word JRE and try it free for 30.

days all right we will see you guys. tomorrow and uh we will see you also. tomorrow night we're at the ice house. it's uh Brian redband Ian Edwards Matt. fultron Tommy sagora me and Tony. henchcliffe too it's a hell of a show a. hell of a show. $151 PM come on down Freaks and um this. weekend Houston Friday night I'm at the. Bayou Music Center with uh the great Tom. sigura and uh then of course Saturday's. the UFC uh lots of good [ __ ] coming up.

including uh lots of uh really cool. podcast guests that we got on the. horizon uh Anna casparian from uh from. The Young Turks is going to be here next. week and uh coming up soon we have Sam. Harris at the end of the month and a lot. of other good guests as well all right. we'll see you guys soon much love to. everybody big. [Music].

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