Joe Rogan Experience #2502 - David Paulides

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. All day. >> David, welcome to the show. >> Pull on up to the microphone. Get that. sucker up like a fist from your face. Uh, I first heard about you from that. guy, Art Bell, the GOAT. >> The greatest. >> Yeah, he [laughter] was. Uh, I used to. love listening to his show. uh coming. home from the comedy store. We come home.

at like 1:00 in the morning and coast to. coast with Art Bell from the Kingdom of. Nigh. It was awesome. And uh that's when. I I first uh got turned on to your work. So tell everybody you uh you started off. in law enforcement, right? That's your background, >> correct? >> How did you get involved in this mystery. of people going missing? So, I had already written a couple of. books and I was at Yusede National Park.

doing some research on another topic. and two rangers are following me around. and I went back to my room that was. at the park and about an hour and a half. later, one of the rangers comes to my. room and he's in plain clothes and he. knocks on my door and he says, "Hey. Dave, I'm Ranger so and so. I'm here off. duty. I want to talk to you about some. missing people. I said, "Come on." So, we start talking and he says that he. knew about me probably the way he knew.

about me. And he says, "I know you're. from law enforcement. Somebody look. needs to look into this." About an hour. and a half later, his partner shows up. at the door. And they said that they've. worked at different parks over the. years. And while they were working at. those parks, there were missing people. And he said at the beginning there was a. lot of publicity, a lot of people. interested, a lot of activity and then. with time with within about 10 15 days. all of that would end.

and he said, 'We got concerned and we. did a Freedom of Information Act against. our own agency to get the reports and we. couldn't get the reports and then we did. a Freedom of Information Act request on. other cases and we couldn't get the. reports and we got concerned because. after that initial 10 14 day period of. searching is all over there's nothing. else that happens. That's it. and he. said, "Somebody ought to look into this. because there's a lot of people missing. and the park service doesn't talk about.

it." Now, what was he assuming? Was he. assuming something nefarious was going. on or was he assuming that it was a a. lack of commitment to finding the. bodies? Because you got to assume most. people after 14 days lost in the woods. are probably going to die. I think all. the above. He thought that there were too many. people going missing. there wasn't. enough follow-up being done. and nobody seemed to care. So, if you. were being pragmatic and you weren't.

like diving into mysteries and the stuff. that I like, the fun stuff, you would. say, well, they don't have any. resources. You know, there's not enough. people to go looking. when you think. about the actual square miles that you. would have to cover to find a body and. then also the reality of predators and. all these different animals that are. going to eat bodies. If a body's there, there's not going to be much left. You. spent obviously you spent time in the. woods. Have you ever seen a dead. mountain lion? >> No, I've never seen I've never seen a.

dead bear. >> Uh. I've only seen dead bears because I was. hunting. I've never seen a dead bear. Well, no, that's not true. No, I did. We. did find one, but I think um it's very. rare, but that one was recently dead. He. was killed by another bear. I think most. of the time when you find uh dead. animals, it's very recent. And if an. animal's dead and it's left alone in the. woods, within a certain amount of time, something's going to eat it.

Everything's going to eat it, including. the bones. There's almost nothing left. by the time they get done with it. >> 100%. >> Yeah. But one thing I learned from being. around rangers in all these years now is. that there's few things that belong to. us, what that we go into the woods with. that are always going to be there. Namely, our shoes, belt buckles, belt. buckles, leather, anything, um, the rubber waistband of your. underwear. These kind of things stay. stay forever. A rifle, a pistol,

>> a bow. and those things you're going to. find. But getting back to the point of. these guys, there were too many people. going missing in a short period of time. that no one seemed to care about. That. was really their main focus. >> And somebody ought to look into it. Somebody ought to start collecting data. Nobody did. And maybe somebody from the outside, they're the inside. Maybe somebody from.

the outside would have more luck putting. this all together rather than them. That. was kind of the gist of it. Well, there's some cases that are just flatout. weird. Like some cases like people go. missing, they die, animals eat them, that's a wrap. That makes sense to me. But there's a few cases and one of them. you covered was a guy, I believe he was. from Canada that went skiing in New York. and he went missing and then he showed.

up 2500 miles later in California with. his ski clothes on and he didn't know. what happened. >> Yeah. That was uh he was a fireman from. I think Toronto that went with a bunch. of friends to New York on like a weekend. ski trip and the guys were all getting. together at the end of the day to leave. and they couldn't find him. He says he. wakes up on a truck traveling from like.

Reno to Sacramento. Woke up in the back of a truck. No, sitting in the front seat. And he said. that he was as he wakes up, he's. talking. It's not like he was asleep and. woke up. It's like his mind suddenly. flashed open. Hey, you're alive now. You. can keep talking. And he goes, "But I. was talking to the driver and we're. traveling.". The driver drops him off at Sacramento. airport. He doesn't remember anything, but he. remembers his home phone number. He. calls his wife in Toronto and she goes,

"Hey, everyone's searching for you, thinking you're still at the ski. resort." He go he has all the ski. clothes on. How many days later? >> I don't remember. But even he doesn't. make sense of it. He doesn't know how he. got in the truck. The truck driver left. Nobody knows who the truck driver was. That was kind of the the whole story. It. wasn't a lot. >> So he didn't ask the truck driver, "Hey, where'd you pick me up?". >> I think he was embarrassed.

>> Just embarrassed that he was in the. truck and doesn't remember how he got in. there. >> Yeah. Okay. So, he didn't say anything. And. did he have any memories from skiing to. like did he ever do like regressive. hypnosis or anything? >> If he did, it never went public. >> H was that the weirdest one? >> Oh, no. There's there's weird. >> What's the weirdest one you heard of? [sighs and gasps]. >> The strangest disappearance story.

There's a lot of people. that disappear that don't have a memory. And if you look back and you study. missing people, those people. historically have been abducted. And there's something about that. abduction experience where they can take. away part of your mind. >> You think alien abduction. That's what. you're saying. >> Alien entity, >> something. >> some some type of foreign. >> Just want to be clear, we're not talking. about like like a bad person abducting. person. No, we're talking about. >> some kind of entity,

>> okay? >> And they take away part of that mind. where they were probably doing something. to you that they don't want you to know, >> right? >> And. there's a lot of those there's a whole. segment of people that I have chronicled. that were truck drivers. who have amnesia who were found in. conditions that were very strange. There. was a truck driver in the Midwest where. salt of the earth kind of guy drove.

drove independently wife and a couple. kids. He picks up a load. I want I want. to say it was pigs and he's his truck is. found like outside of Indiana on a. little two-lane highway stopped on the. side of the road. He's not anywhere to be found, but his. coat is found in a ditch on the other. side of the other lane. So the sheriff. comes out, they do a huge search, flyovers, canines, goes on for like four.

or five days, nothing. Week and a half later, his body is found. in that field in the spot where they had. searched all that time. Impossible to. miss. Corner says he's been dead for two. weeks. Well, the chef can't make sense of that. because he searched that with dogs and. people. That guy should have been there. But Joe, I have 1,500 of those cases. where canines were brought in, multiple.

K9 teams, multiple searches, and people. were not found. And the point I try to. make about this is that it's not that. the searchers are inept. because I don't believe that. And I. don't believe that the canines fail. multiple multiple times because I don't. believe that can happen. I don't believe. they were there when they were. searching. They were left there later. on. And so you've been you've been into this.

for a long time, right? What was the. first case that you looked into that got. you thinking something weird's going on? Probably would have been at Yoseite and. there was a girl named Stacy Eris. and she just weirdly she grew up. like five miles from me. I I grew up in. a little city, Certino, California. She. grew up in Saratoga, the next town over. She went with her dad on a trip by horse.

sponsored by a contractor in the park at. Yusede, and they were going to ride into. this place called the High Sierra Camp, her and her dad and five other people. and they get uh escorted in by a cowboy. contractor and they come to these cabins. and her dad's an older guy. They get to. the cabin and she says, "Hey, Dad, I'm. going to go over here to the point. I'm. going to take some pictures." She brings. her camera and one of the guys, a. 72-year-old guy, is sitting at that.

point and she goes, "I'm going to go. right there and sit with him and take. some pictures." He goes, "Sure." Dad. watches her walk out. They sits down. old old guy barely could ride the horse. She's taking pictures. She gets up and. down at the bottom of the hill there's a. small lake and surrounding the lake. there's trees. She walks down into the trees. presumably to take pictures of the lake, but she doesn't come back. Big search. I'm talking about one of the.

biggest searches in Yoseite history. and. they find the lens cap to a camera. inside that path in the treeine. They. never find her. And. that happened 46 years ago. I filed the. Freedom of Information Act for that. report and all the investigation into it. and I get denied. I appealed. I got. denied. Finally, a special agent from the park.

service. Just so people know, the park. service has uniformed. police officers, National Park Service. police that patrol their parks, and they. go to the National Law Enforcement. Academy. Up above them, they have special agents, detectives, and they are doing all the follow-up. work that the police officers in the. field do. This case goes to a special. agent. There's been nothing done on this case.

in 40 years. The special agent calls me, "Why do you want the case?" I said, "Well, that's an irrelevant question. according to FOIA. You can't ask that.". And he goes, "Well, I want to know." I. said, "Well, it's been 47 years. I doubt. anyone's looked at it. Have you looked. at it?" "No, nobody's looked at it." I. said, "Well, I'd like a copy of it just. to understand what happened." He goes, "You're never going to get the case.". This guy's name was special agent you. Why you? I said, 'Wh? And he says, none.

of your business. You're never going to. get it. I said, 'First of, why talk to. me like that? I'm prior law enforcement. I'm I'm not being rude. I just want to. know. He goes, forget it. Drop it. You're never going to see it. I said, no, I want that case. And he goes, you. don't you've never seen any other. missing person case, and you're not. going to see this one. I said, "Whoa, I. have over 30 missing person cases from. your agency from around the United. States that I've foyed before and I've. received. You're a liar. You said that.

to me." I said, "No, I'm not a liar. I. don't lie and this is the truth." He. goes, "Well, you're not getting this. one. Anything else you want to know?" I said, "No, I think you've done it." And that. was it. In that amount of time, I've really. found out nothing more about the Stacy. case. 14-year-old girl, disappeared, never found. Nobody's ever done anything. on the case in 40 years. I still haven't.

seen it. Now, I talked to Tim Burchett, who you had in here the other day. And I. explained to him, I want an a meeting. with Bergam, and I want to lay out what. I have and explain the obstruction, >> the head of the Department of the. Interior. Okay. Doug Bergam. >> Okay. and explain to him uh the obstructions. that are happening in his agency. Those. are our reports. If nobody's looked at. it in 40 plus years, what does it matter. if I have it? >> Right. The people that were working back. then aren't working anymore. It's not. like anyone's going to get in trouble.

>> No, half of them are dead, >> right? >> And. Tim said, "Okay, uh I'll have my people. get a hold of you." They got a hold of. me. They said that they called DOI. They. said that DO DOI people said, "Yeah, we'll get a hold of you." I called them. three times. They won't call me back. So, what do you think's going on? >> So, when you look at the totality of and. let's just talk about Yusede. As I dug into it, there's probably over.

50 people missing in Yoseite as we talk. right now. When I asked for a list from. Yusede from the Department of the. Interior 12 years ago, they said they. don't have a list. I asked for a list of. missing people from the entire system in. the Department of Interior. They said, 'We don't have a list. And I said, 'Well, okay. I've written so many books. I'm a printed author. I'm going to ask. you to put that list together for me. According to the rules, I fit that.

criteria to ask, >> but they said they don't have a list, >> right? But I asked them to put one. together. >> Okay? >> And they said, "We'll get back to you.". They said, "No, you don't qualify, but if you want us to put together a. list from the entire system, it's going. to cost you $1.4 million. If you want a list from Yusede, that's. going to cost you $34,000.". So, that got me really upset. Over the. next two years, I put the list together. Joe, the third year, you know what.

Yusede did? They released a list of. missing people from Yuseite. So, I knew. I got all the people from Yuseite. I. wrote about him in my books. They still. haven't released a list from the entire. system. >> So, do you think they released it. because you were pressuring them? No. So, like this, you could look at it a. bunch of different ways. I'm trying to. like look at it from the skeptic's. perspective. You'd say, "Well, this is. clear. A bunch of people don't want to. do their job. They're lazy. They don't. like this guy coming along and asking. for information." But you think there's.

something weird going on. Here's a foyer I found on their website. that was sent to him in 2011. [clears throat]. It says that the in that uh appeal was. properly invoked because of exemption. 7A. And here's I'll let you read that. What that is. >> 7A permits the withholding of records or. information complied or compiled rather. for law enforcement purposes but only to. the extent that the production of such. law enforcement records or information.

could reasonably be expected to. interfere with enforcement proceedings. So. they could withhold it because you could. interfere with enforcement proceedings. >> 40 years later or 30 years later I. guess. >> That's [ __ ] weird. The exemption is. intended to prevent premature disclosure. of the investigate investigatory. materials that might be used in law. enforcement action. 40 years later, >> it says the incident is still on in.

criminal investigations. The incident is. still ongoing. >> 40 years later, what? Okay. Tinfoil hat firmly placed on your. head. What do you think's going on? So, first of all, missing people. investigations are not criminal. investigations, >> right? There's nothing criminal about. disappearing. If it's a criminal. investigation and there's criminal. aspects to it, it shouldn't be a missing. person case. It ought to be suspicious. circumstances investigated by a criminal. investigator.

>> Right? >> It has a classification as a missing. person. And what they're not saying. there is what about the other 40 cases. I've already gotten from them that are. since that that are missing person. cases. >> Right? So, that's a little weird. But I could. also see incompetent people that don't. want to work. They don't want to do. their job and they're like, "Fuck this. guy. I don't want to do his work. I. don't want to go. Why is he asking me. for this information? He's just a kooky. author.". I could see that. But like, what do you.

think might be going on with these. people? >> So, when I was in law enforcement, I. worked on the SWAT team and we had. canines assigned to our team. Joe, I. can't ever remember us looking for. someone with a dog and the dog didn't. find the person. >> Right. >> I have 1,200 to,500 cases where they. bring a canine to find a missing person. and the dog can't track, won't track, or. turns around, comes down and sits down.

and is not interested in tracking. That's totally outside the behavior of a. dog. This episode is brought to you by. Zip Recruiter. We've all been there. Putting something off because we simply. don't want to do it and then it never. gets done or you do it poorly. Your. enthusiasm or lack thereof shows in your. work. Hiring managers know this. It's a. big factor they consider. And if you're. like them, Zip Recruiter is your. greatest ally because you can try it for. free at ziprecruiter.com/rogan.

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post on Ziprecruiter get a quality. candidate within the first day. And now. you can try it for free at. ziprecruiter.com/rogan. That's ziprecruiter.com/roganogen. Meet your match with Ziprecruiter. Isn't. that what happened to that woman. recently that went missing that was uh a. part of this whole group of scientists. that were involved in propulsion. research? >> Reza. >> Yeah. Same sort of situation, right? She. was with her friend. Uh they were. hiking. They had just talked. The friend.

was ahead of her. And the friend turned. around to ask her a question. She was. gone. They do an investigation. They. bring in dogs. Can't find anything. The. lady's just gone. 100%. You're 100% right. It doesn't make any. sense. And it does. It fit that 411. criteria that I laid down, which is why. I did a video about it. her disappearance doesn't make sense.

So, do you have suspicions? Like, do you think something. supernatural is going on? Do you think. something extraterrestrial or. interdimensional? Like, what do you. think is involved in these people going. missing? First of all, I don't know. >> Right. In my books, I've laid out facts. and I let the viewer decide. But one thing I did find because I've. written about a lot of hunters that have.

disappeared. And let's say you and I go out and we're. going to go pig hunting at your friend's. farm down the way. And you say, "Hey. Dave, you go that way and I'll go that. way and I'll meet you in an hour." Okay. So, in my world, I call that point of. separation. Every time on a missing hunter case, it's at that point of separation that. something happens. It never happens when. they're together. It always happens when. people are alone. That's point number. one. Number two is the canine issue.

Canines failure to pick up a scent. They. bring in professional trackers and they. can't find tracks. That's not normal. Um, a lot of times, say in Alaska, they. have some great native trackers up there. and they can't find people and every. other time they can. So, it's like if. you're going from A to B, you're going. to leave a scent and you're going to. leave a track, >> right? >> Well, they can't find that and that's. not normal.

So, in my I made a movie called Missing. 411: The Hunted. And in that movie, there was a case of 12 12 guys are. planting trees on the side of a mountain. in Washington State. And there's a herd. of elk at the bottom of the mountain. And all of these guys see this classic. UFO come up the mountain, hover over one. elk. The herd scatters, but one elk doesn't. It just stands there. And then without. anything between the UFO and the elk, it.

picks the elk up and it's gone. The guys. all say, "F this. I'm out of here." The. whole group of planners leave and the. manager for the company says, "Whoa, guys, hold on. What's going on?". So they call Muon out, Mutual UFO. Network. They bring some investigators. out and they interview these guys one by. one. And they all say the same thing. and they say, "What we're afraid of is. we're next. They just took that elk, but.

we're next." So that's in the movie. Keep that in your back of your mind. There's a guy named Carl in Wyoming. He's hunting in the Medicine Bow. National Forest alone. Sees some elk 100 yards away. Lines up. with his rifle. Boom. He says, "Dave, it's like everything went into slow. motion. I see the bullet come out the. gun. about three or four feet and it. drops to the ground.

Says, I walked over and he goes, they. all didn't move and I pick it up the. bullet. I put the bullet in my pocket. and then two alien type entities walk up. to me and they engage him in mind speak. and they what they do is they eventually. take him on a craft and they take the. elk on the craft [laughter]. and it's like the elk are frozen there. in time. and they have him march behind a screen.

and they said we don't want you. You're. going back, mind of mine. And he goes, "What's going on?" He goes, "You're. going back." He says, "The next thing I. remember is falling 10 to 15 ft." He's. guessing. He hits his shoulder, probably. displaces it, and he rolls down a hill. They're already searching for him. because he's missing his wife, the. sheriff, and they take him back and they. take him to a hospital. and they're taking X-rays. and he had.

tuberculo tuberculosis scars as a kid. Those are no longer there. And he had other medical issues that are. completely cured. The investigators came out and they the. Wyoming Department of Law Enforcement. looked at that bullet and did an exam on. it and they could not figure out what. that bullet hit to make it deform in the. manner that it did. I have pictures of. it in the movie. It's It's very odd. See if you can find the Is the pictures.

online? >> I'm looking. I'm looking. >> Of course you are. >> If you go to Tuby Tubi, Missing 411 The. Hunted, the uh the movie is there for. free. You guys could watch it. >> Also, check out Gearheads Gone Wild. It's my friend's show. Okay. So, uh No. Tuberculosis, [snorts]. Scars, The Bullet. So, I'm talking to Carl and I said, "Well, why do you think they sent you. back?". He says, "Well, I think it's cuz I had a. vasectomy.". I said, "Oh, did they say anything to. you about that?" "No,

okay." So, he was 91 years old when I. interviewed him. Sharp as attack. How. old was he when this encounter happened? >> I think he was 38, 39. And uh. again, this happened in the Medicine Bow. National Forest. >> Where is that? Medicine Bow is directly. uh I'd say about 75 miles northwest of. Cheyenne. So at about the same time, the Air Force.

base in Cheyenne is having a group of. cluster UFO sightings above the ICBM. sites. And that was never made public at this. time. It was 30, 40, 50 years later. through uh Robert Hastings and other Air. Force personnel came out that these. documents started to show up. So Carl. would have never known what was. happening at the same time these things. in Cheyenne were happening.

And then you think about what's going on. in Wyoming that would cause this. But. really the epiphany to me with Carl. is there's a lot of people in the woods. that are found quote unquote they fell. They always fall alone and they always. fall in places where if you and I are in. the woods, we're going to be pretty. careful when we're alone. We're not. going to be walking off a cliff. We're. going to be careful. A lot of these. people are found under very unusual. circumstances dead at the bottom of an.

area that you just don't think makes. sense. and they couldn't be tracked. So with Carl, when you think about him being taken, a. hunter. hunting elk, nobody gets seen, nothing's. heard. So, I did a circumference around the. area where he went. and it's in the movie. There's a group. of German hunters. Carl was German.

German hunters that have disappeared. Nobody else but German that have. disappeared in that area. And then when you look at the scope of. what I've done in my work, I went. backwards and I found there's a lot of. German people that have been abducted. more than the normal population of. people. And these German hunters really were the. opening valve to me that something odd. was happening with German. >> What do you think that is? Why German?

>> I really wish I knew. That's probably. outside my pay grade. I don't know. Oh, I mean there's a lot of rumors about the. Germans having associations with aliens. >> Oh, during the Nazi times. Yeah. >> Right. >> Well, there's a lot of like weird occult. stuff going on with the Nazis, right? >> And they were making like what looked. like a UFO. They were constructing these. things that looked like flying saucers, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Um, you know the Travis Walton case?

>> Oh, very well. >> Yeah. This is I have his bobblehead. he. came in here. Um, that's another guy. that went missing in the woods and it's. a similar story. It, you know, he was. taken aboard some sort of a craft, multiple witnesses, including people who. hated him. One guy who he actually got. in a fist fight with earlier that day. and they all told the same story. They. all passed polygraph tests. He shows up. days later. um with this crazy story that he had. been hit by a beam of light. They took.

him aboard this craft, fixed him, fixed. whatever happened to him and. communicated with him and then dropped. him back off. I know Travis well. In fact, I was doing. a conference in Phoenix and he brought. his son to the conference because his. son wanted to me meet me because a lot. of my work focused around things that. happened to Travis. And I I think Travis's case is probably. not unique and there's probably.

thousands of people out there that just. don't want to talk about it. They just. want it to go away. >> cuz it's too weird and cuz you feel like. a fool. >> Yeah. That and I think maybe they're. afraid that they're going to get pigeon. holed as what you just said. Odd, strange. >> You're a crazy person. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, the Travis case is very. interesting cuz I I mean this is just. I mean I'm just saying this but most. people who lie they lie about a lot of. stuff. They don't just have one crazy.

lie from the 1970s that they keep. repeating exactly the same way and have. witnesses. You know that's the whole. thing is very strange. Also the fact. that he went missing in the woods and. then showed up multiple days later. There's nothing wrong with him. He's not. dehydrated. He's not starving to death. He's fine. He's just weirded out. And he. has this crazy story. And it's not like his story is unique.

either. That's what's very strange. The. people that have been abducted, they all. have very similar stories. They have sim. similar stories about medical. examinations, being taken aboard a. craft, things communicating with them. telepathically. you know, um there's there's no like. delusions of grandeur like you have. you're the chosen one, you're unique, you're Neo, you're the one we wanted, we. came here for you. There's no nothing. kooky like that. It's all just they want. to know what's going on with the human.

species and they find a specimen, they. do an examination, and it sounds. completely insane, but we do that. We do. that with species. We do that with other. things. We do that with primates. We do. that with all kinds of different animals. that we research. I mean, people, there's probably someone doing it right. now in the Congo, probably looking for. some animals, you know, tranquiliz. tranquilizing some animal, doing studies.

on it, releasing it back into the wild. We do it all the time. Yeah. >> One of the things I say at conferences. is, "What if we're the ant farm?". >> Yeah, >> that took a while to find. So, this is. the bullet. So, this is um Thank you, Jamie. This is. the bullet that this guy shot and it hit. something right in front of him. It just. completely deformed. That bullet looks. like it hit a wall. Like it hit like. something like a a giant plate of steel.

or something. I mean, it's just. completely flattened. That's not like. [clears throat] a bullet that hits an. animal, you know? bullets that hit well it could. hit bones and stuff and get distorted. but it wouldn't be intact like that. That looks like an intact bullet that. just flattened out hitting something. completely immovable. Very weird. One of the things that Carl said that. they told him is when he got on that. craft is he said, "Hey, you have my. elk." And they said, "Yeah, it's Carl.".

They said that we often come down to. your earth and we take animals and we. study them and. you happen to be one of the people that. was right there when we were taking. that. So, we took you too. And I've heard this before from other. abductees that just like you said, we. look at and test animals. Apparently, they're monitoring the health of our. planet by testing animals themselves.

So he said they communicated with him. telepathically. Yes. What did he say. they they talked to him about? So the elk Why are they interested in. elk? That's a good question. And. >> because they're cool. Elk are very cool. >> Pretty cool. Yes, they are. Um, now. there's an that's an interesting point. because there are more hunters that are. abducted or that disappear hunting elk.

than any other animal. And it's not that. there's more hunters hunting elk. There's more hunters hunting deer on the. whole in the United States, but for some. reason there's more hunters that. disappear hunting elk. And I've said. this in my books before. Well, for as a. hunter, what one thing that I would say. is that when you're hunting elk, you're. in the back country for the most part. You're in wild remote areas with. mountains. You're in um a place with.

very few people. It's very hard to get. to them. Um whereas deer hunting, a lot. of is done on farms, a lot of is done on. flat land. You know, a lot of treeand. hunting. deer, whitetailed deer. specifically in America, North America, are the most hunted animal. Uh but if. you've ever gone whitetail hunting, a. lot of it is in and around farmland. And. um you you never very rarely at least. you're hunting whitetail deer in the. mountains, remote mountain ranges. uh mu.

deer. You hunt mu deer in remote. mountain ranges, but whitetail deer, they're they tend to populate around. humans and and around agriculture. So, that kind of makes sense if they. want to be stealthy. If they're trying. to not be detected by as many people, you would you would pro also you. probably if you were gonna abduct. someone and be reasonably sure that no. one was going to see you do it, you.

would probably go where there's very few. people and just some random guy who's. decided to hike up to 10,000 ft and. chase a herd of elk. Another thing I've heard from Carl is. that he was told that these entities, whoever they are, have the ability to. freeze time and space. And remember what. I said, elk, the elk he was looking at, he said he shot and they didn't move.

It's like they were frozen. And they. were frozen in that same position when. he got on the craft. Time and space being that everything. around him, nobody could walk in, nobody. could walk out. It's like the time and. space that he and the entity and the elk. were in were frozen. It's a hard thing to grasp, but I've. heard this before. It is a hard thing to. grasp. But the people that speculate on. how these. advanced species, whatever they are,

they're able to travel that there's some. sort of manipulation of spaceime that. it's not as simple as like what we do, which is very crude. We do propulsion. We burn things and push stuff out the. back and it makes stuff go forward. Or. we have an internal combustion engine. that does the same thing. It's makes. explosions inside the engine, burns. things, pushes the pistons around, forces the transmission, and it moves. What these things supposedly do, and.

again, this is all just crazy talk, but. what they're able to do is manipulate. spaceime itself and instantaneously. travel from one place to the next cuz. they have a control over the universe in. a way that with us it's like completely. theoretical. Like there's this woman. that speculates that in the future. someday, you know, with many many many. advancements and who knows how many. years of we will be able to travel. quantumly like the way quantum particles.

are entangled. She believes that perhaps. the entire universe works that way and. that everything is connected and that. this. thing that we have this idea that the. distance between stars is far too vast. for a human to travel because you can't. travel past the speed of light. And if. you did travel past the speed of light, it would still take, you know, even if. you went like two times the speed of. light or three times the speed of light, it would still take thousands and. thousands of years to just get to the.

closest planets outside of our solar. system. And she thinks that one day. perhaps, if not humans or whatever is. coming after humans, we'll be able to. quantumly travel. And you would imagine. that would involve some sort of. manipulation of space and time. that we. can't quite understand. that we're just we're just we're talking. about it like it's magic. But again, if. you were talking to someone from the.

1400s about a cell phone, hey, I can. FaceTime my friend in Australia, they'd. go, "What the [ __ ] are you talking. about?" Well, I pick out this device in. my pocket that's as thin as a few slices. of paper and uh through that I can I can. like stare at my friend and he could see. me and I can see him. Like that's magic. You're talking crazy talk. There's. nothing. There's no accord. There's no. nothing. Somehow or another. There's. like what are you sending that's being.

received and it comes into HD video with. sound and it it perfectly lines up with. the way the person's talking. You hear. it in real time. That's crazy. That. doesn't even make sense. But yet we just. are so accustomed to it that it's. normal. Oh, I'm getting a FaceTime call. from my friend. Oh, hey. What's up, buddy? You know, we think it's normal. And then you got to imagine if you could. just push into the future and imagine. thousands of years of innovation in. technology. Like what what does that.

look like? You know, communication used. to be you had to shout. You know, Bob's. over there 100 yards away. You have to. put your hands, we're going to the left. You know, now you could just text them. or you could call them. and that the. ability to communicate at vast distances. will one day be very similar to the way. we travel. We can travel vast distances. instantaneously. part of the entanglement idea that you.

talked about. What if you're in Austin. and I go back to Whitefish, Montana? And. what if we had the ability to think, "Hey, Joe, I forgot to tell you this. when I was on your show and I told you. by my mind." Now, people would say, "Oh, that's stupid. That's ridiculous." But. I've talked to people that are way. smarter than me that say that part of. this entanglement is is that what if. you're in space and you're on the far. side of the moon? And what if we all. have that ability right now to affect.

others in other places and our thinking. and our mind is really more powerful and. we are this spiderweb of entanglement. that we don't quite understand right. now. And let me where this came from is. George Knap been on his show like 30. times. He had a guy named Colum Kellaher. who was the head of all investigations. for Bigalow at Skinwalker Ranch. And. George said, "Hey Dave, Keller wants you. to come out to Las Vegas. He thinks some.

of the work that they're doing at the. ranch right now overlaps with your work. on missing people.". So I came out to Las Vegas three or four. times, met with Keller, and we talked. about just what you're talking about. right now, this overlapping of. understanding consciousness because it's. much more complex than some people are. willing or even for us to understand. But what if what's happening on Earth. right now, whether it's abductions,

cattle mutilations, UFOs, is really something that is so beyond. us. We try to think in rational terms, well, they're taking us for our sperm or. they're taking us for our eggs. What if. it's something a lot lot more deep than. really we could comprehend right now? >> Like what? >> I don't know. [laughter] I'm asking you, Joe. >> [gasps]. >> But he his point being that all the time. they spent almost 20 years at that ranch.

investigating things. And he tells me. about this one incident and he says, "I've got a physicist up on the hill. with another researcher. It's 2:00 in the morning. They're. looking down at the meadow and they see. this bright light. and this bright light starts to get. bigger. And if you could tell your guy, he could pick it up right now on uh if. you go to Amazon to the movie American. Sasquatch Man or Legend. It's my movie. We have it there. And it starts getting.

bigger. >> Uhhuh. >> And one guy doesn't have night vision. The other guy does. And this round thing. keeps getting bigger and bigger till. eventually it's like you're looking down. a tube. And he says it's almost. three-dimensional because you could see. something at the far end of the tube. and the physicist is handing the night. vision back and they're sharing it. Eventually the tube gets to be about. this big.

that something twice the size of you and. I could crawl through. All of a sudden they see something. crawling down the tube. It crawls out. It jumps down onto the. land and they see it's so dark even with. night vision that they could just see a. silhouette and it's bipeedal. seven or eightt tall all black in color. >> Is it that. >> is this it? >> No. >> Okay.

[laughter]. >> Well, sound like it sound like what. you're talking. >> is that the the documentary you're. talking about? >> No, it's not [laughter] mine. >> Something different. >> Yeah. >> Sasquatch. American Sasquatch. >> Man, myth or monster. >> Isn't that what you said? >> Is that it? >> That's it. Yeah, >> that's okay. >> So, this is your film? >> That is the film, but that's not what. I'm talking about. >> Where is it in the film? Do you. remember? >> It's near the near the end, like. threequarters of the way through it. It's with my interview with Keller, and. he's talking about it and and this.

thing, and then it walks away on on two. feet. And when we talk about this, he. said, "Doesn't make any sense to us.". You know, did we just see a portal open. up and an entity from another dimension. crawl through into our dimension? And is. that the access point that they're. using? And can they open this at certain. times and close it at certain times at. will? And really that was the first time that.

I had heard this from someone credible. that this can happen. And if you think. about the people at the ranch today, they said, "Well, the amount of energy. it takes to open a portal is so many. times greater than an atom bomb that it. doesn't make sense that that could be. the answer to this." Well, maybe their. answer to what a portal is is different. But what these guys saw doesn't make a. lot of sense to us. Well, the whole. Bigfoot thing doesn't make a lot of. sense. One of the reasons why the. Bigfoot thing doesn't make a lot of.

sense is that um Native Americans don't. have a lot of mythological creatures. It's not like they have a ton of dragons. and demons and pixies and wood sprites. There's not. But there's over a hund. Isn't Didn't we look this up? The the. the the name for Sasquatch? >> Yeah, there's a bunch. There's like 50. different names that they have for this. one thing that they universally. described as a bipeedal hairy ape-like.

creature that's 8 to 10 feet tall. And there's so many sightings of this. one thing. It's not like people keep. talking about different animals like I. saw an elephant that has six legs. No, it's always bipeedal homminids. It's weird. It's a weird So, because. like. I've never seen compelling Bigfoot.

footage. It all looks [ __ ] The. Patterson footage I think is nonsense. I. think it's a guy in a monkey suit for. sure. I think uh most of what you see in. terms of like photographic evidence is. nonsense. But there's too many stories. There's too many stories for me to. completely dismiss it. And I've always. wondered if it's some sort of an. interdimensional experience and that. this thing may be the fact that it's in.

the woods and that they happen under. heightened awareness because you're in. the woods and you're probably very. nervous and freaked out. So, you're. probably in a very bizarre state of mind. and all of a sudden you encounter. something that makes zero sense and the. same thing gets encountered by people. over and over again. And you could write. that. Now, if you're a cynical person or. a rational person, which I'm neither one.

of those, you you could you could write. it off and you could say, "Well, there's. an archetype. People have talked about. this creature, you know, for so long. that that's what you expect to see. So. that's what you make yourself see, you. know, maybe maybe it's a bear that walks. on two legs because we know they do. that. Particularly black bears, they. walk on two legs all the time. I've seen. them walk on two legs. It's very weird. But they don't describe it like a bear. They describe it like an ape. They they.

they say it has long arms like an ape. and that it looks at you and that these. things exist in the forest like deep in. the forest where there's no people and. then when people go out there they. encounter them and the story is just. it's like the UFO abduction story. It's. so similar. It's so similar over and. over again. like a very similar story. And you've always got to separate the. kooky stories because there's always a.

bunch of crazy people that make things. up. There's a bunch of people that are. probably on psychiatric drugs or they're. tripping balls on mushrooms or whatever. it is. There's a bunch of people that. see things that maybe aren't there at. all. But then there's enough of these. stories where you got to go, man, if. just one of these is true, one out of a. hundred. And then there's thousands of. them. Like, how what is going on? Not an ape. It's not a gorilla. If it. was, we'd have it in the zoo. And we.

don't. The It walks like a man. Ape and. gorillas don't walk like a man. >> Well, Gigan Giganthopythecus did, right? >> No, >> it didn't. There's no evidence it was. bipedal at all. I thought it was the jaw. structure. So, they have one piece of. jaw and a bunch of teeth and there's a. lot of theories behind that, but there's. no evidence it was bipedal. >> Oh, that's number one. Number two, there's no evidence of it's ever been in. North America, right? But the sightings that they find.

of this thing are in Alaska and the. Pacific Northwest primarily. This is. where you get a lot of them. And the. idea would be that when the bearing land. bridge was around before the ice age or. during the ice age when the ocean levels. were much lower and there was more land. exposed that these things could walk. across Asia like we know the shortfaced. bear did and we also know people made it. from Siberia into North America.

So let's just let's just take. Gigantopithecus. That wouldn't be some. an environment it could live in though. >> That was that was a jungle animal. >> Right. >> Right. In Asia. >> Correct. >> So let's let's getting back to that. But. there's all before you go on, but. there's also. >> Gigantopithecus. They found less than a hundred years. ago. So, these um I believe they were. anthropologists and they were searching. for different bones in an apothecary. shop in China and they found a moler.

that was extraordinarily large, like way. too large and it was a primate mer and. they were like, "What is this?" And so. they took them to where they found it. and then as they started digging they. found some more bones and some different. things. I don't how much stuff have they. found of Gigantoythecus? >> Only jaws and teeth. >> That's it. Yeah, it says, yeah, this. says it was. >> Now, imagine if they never found that. Here's the here's the question. If they. never found any of that stuff. Show me. what they got.

>> It doesn't say what I mean, it says what. they have here. >> Okay. We only have jaws and teeth for. Gigantopithecus, not pelvis, leg bones, or full skeleton. So, its exact gate. can't be observed directly. Researchers. infer its posture and locomotion by. comparing its anatomy and evolutionary. relationships with living great apes, especially orangutans, which are all quadripedal and not. habitual bipeds. So why do they think. it's okay? No, gigantopithecus is not. thought to have been bipedal. Scientific. consensus is that was a large mostly.

quadripedal ape. So why does some people. say it's bipeedal? Where the idea came. from? Okay, a minority of researchers. and many Bigfoot enthusiasts have. proposed a bipeedal gigantopithecus, often linking it to Sasquatch. But those. arguments rely on speculative. interpretations of jaw shape rather than. solid postranial fossils. These bipeedal. reconstructions are generally rejected. by specialists in fossil apes who regard. them as highly unlikely given current. evidence. So, Perplexity, our AI.

sponsor, says no. Says Bigfoot something. different. So, but the thing is, if. Gigantopithecus was a real thing and all. we have is these a tiny amount of. fossilized bones and and teeth. How many things make fossils? Very few. Very few. So, there very well could have. been a bipeedal ape like a human that. was much larger. I mean, we know at one.

point in time bipeedal homminids like, you know, the early versions of human. beings were very hairy and some of them. were larger than us. We just don't have fossils cuz most. things don't leave fossils. Like the. fossil record is incredibly incomplete, right? >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. So, you know, in East. Texas there's a lot of Bigfoot. sightings. >> Really? East Texas. >> East Texas. >> This episode is brought to you by. Visible. Ah, [sighs] spring is in the. air, which means time for some spring.

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network management details. What kind of uh terrain? >> Uh. mushy, swampy. >> Okay. >> Uh wet. Yeah. Right on the border. East. Texas. >> Uh Tennessee. the border of what? Oklahoma. Uh, no, down near the ocean. >> Oh, okay. So, when we talked about you you were. talking about Alaska, Pacific Northwest,

a lot of Bigfoot sightings. >> Mhm. >> A lot of Bigfoot sightings in Tennessee, too. Kentucky. And. >> a lot of moonshine in Kentucky. Tennessee, too. >> Yes. A lot of people smoking crank. >> Yes. [laughter]. So, after I [snorts] was a policeman, I. had a master's degree. I worked uh. technology for a while. I had masters in. HR and I ran HR organizations. Did that for five, six, seven years. I. said I had enough and I'm leaving. I had. young kids. I was going to leave with my. family and have fun.

Two founders of this company, super. rich, come to me and they say, "Hey. Dave, we got a job for you at your own. pace, at your own will. Here's the. story." When they were younger, they. didn't know each other. They grew up in. different parts. They went up into the. woods with their families, backpacking, camping, having fun. They got up in the. middle of the night, take a leak, and. independently didn't know each other. They saw Bigfoot.

They found each other. They formed this. company, made millions of dollars. One. day they're at lunch and they start. talking to each other and they had the. same experience. They said, "Wow, that's. that's freaking bizarre. So, let's get. to the bottom of it." So, I'm leaving. They know I have an investigative. background. They said, "Hey, we're going. to hire you. We want you to go find out. if it's true, false, or hoax." They. hired you to go check to see if Bigfoot. was real. Flipped the whole bill. They. said, "You do it at your own pace. Own.

will. We'll pay for everything." I said, "Not interested." They came back to me. like four or five times. Finally, at the. end of a year, my wife is divorcing me. I now have only 50% custody. I have 50%. of my life open to do whatever I want. They came at me again. I said, "Okay, very I'm going to shorten it down to. from what took five years to five. minutes.". Tennessee, Great Smoky Mountain National Park. There was a man there named uh Scott.

Carpenter. Scott, rest his soul, has. since died. But he took me into an area. in the park. and he said, "Dave, this is the part. where I've I've had all kinds of. evidence.". >> What kind of evidence? >> Footprints, hair, >> hair, >> hair. >> So, has he ever had the hair analyzed? >> Okay. >> So, we start talking about it. How can. we get a good sample of hair? So, I. said, 'You know, with Bear, they take.

bear samples and DNA samples from bear. all the time. Let's try this. Let's take some. packaging tape, wrap it inside out on. the outside of a tree. Put something at. the fork of the tree, some kind of food, whatever, honey, something. If they lean. up against the tree, it's going to pull. the hair out, which we need the follicle. for the DNA. Let's see if that works. He says, "Billiant, we did it. It worked. In that.

area, we had tracks." Now, just so you. know, and everyone else knows, there's. hair and fiber experts in the world, and. they testify in superior court all the. time. Uh, like out in the lobby, you. have all these different kinds of. animals. If we took a hair from one. animal and gave it to a hair and fiber. expert, he could tell you within two. minutes what animal that came from. because every hair looks different. So, we took those hairs, went to hair and. fiber expert, and they said, 'Well, where'd you get. that?' And I go, "What do you mean?". "We've never seen that hair before. It's.

not classified. It doesn't exist.". Hm. Okay. So, that means we're on to. something. So, then I took. >> Does it have follicle? Can they do a DNA. on it or is it just hair? >> They did. >> Okay. >> It did. So, I I called the I was living. in California at the time. I called the. University of California, Davis, the. biggest animal lab in the world. And they said, "What do you got?" I. explained it. They said, "Bigfoot, we're. not touching it. We don't want anything. to do with it." I went to University of. Texas,

UC Davis. I went to like six or seven. No one would touch it. But then I found. a woman that testified in the courts. here in Texas as a DNA expert. I called. her up. Her name is Melba Ketchum. Dr. Ketchum, I have this sample here. Would you be willing to do DNA analysis. on it? Absolutely. It's going to cost. you so many thousands of dollars. I go, "No problem. We've got somebody who's. going to pay." So she goes, "Okay, let's. do one better, Dave. Send me the sample.

Let me look at it first. I'm going to. give it to my hair and fiber expert.". They look at it. Fiber hair and fiber. expert says, "It's nothing we've ever. seen. So that's good." So she goes, "Okay, here's here's what we're going to. do. Can you get any more samples?". I said, "I I have an idea. Let me try.". So, I go on coast to coast and I I laid. it out. I said, "Hey, we have these. samples. We're looking for hair samples. Don't don't [ __ ] us because we'll. know right away. Send us hair samples.

with with everything attached and we're. going to send it to a lab. You don't. have to pay the bill. We got 125 valid. samples that were not deer, analopee, bear, whatever.". She goes through the DNA analysis on it. Cost I think it cost us $400,000 at the. end of the day. It's a lot less. expensive now. And they all so hair will will give you.

mitochondrial DNA from the maternal. side, but it won't give you fraternal. DNA from the father's side. That you. need nuclear DNA, blood, tissue, saliva. And we got some of those son of a gun. At the end of the day, the DNA comes. back. 12 to 15,000 years to the Middle East on. the mother's side. Father's side, it doesn't exist in.

Genbank. 352 billion base pairs of DNA. does not exist. The father's DNA does. not exist. Jenbang says it's impossible. Since that time, other people have come. forward and said, "Hey, you know, on. elongated skulls, we've had the same problem. We can't. find the fraternal DNA just like you.". That's a guy named La Marzulli that was. doing the research there. And then Ron. Morhead, who is doing other DNA studies.

on elongated skulls in South America, said the same thing. That's odd, Dave. So. the f the maternal we understand the. fraternal we don't and. the the DNA they did a paper about it. it's online. had a lot of people say oh you know what. that's BS it's it's bad. but nobody else has ever done a test and.

I could get you more hair within two. weeks if we wanted to. nobody wants to test it I'll passed it. What do we have to do? >> The truth is The truth is The truth is. >> Jamie, you ready to go? Let's go. Let's. get some tape. The truth is. >> it'll all come back the same. And I. believe that the researchers who have. done it, they've gotten the same. results. >> And so if you say that it on the. fraternal side it doesn't exist, on the. maternal side it's showing thousands of.

Explain that again. So, like I'm Greek. >> So, they could they could chase my DNA. backwards through time to I don't know, Greece, >> right? >> 10 15,000 years ago. Well, they were. able to chase the maternal side back to. the Middle East 12 to 15,000 years. >> And what did they say it was? >> That's all they said. But what they're. saying is is that, and a lot of people. have picked up on this, well, that has a. lot of religious connotations to it.

Why does it have religious connotations. to it? >> Because of the Middle East 12 to 15,000. years, >> right? But why is that religious? It's a. part of the world 12 to 15,000 years. ago. What what gives it religious. connotations other than the fact that. that's the origins of a lot of. religions? That's it. >> Right. But it's also humans and. different animals lived there. Like. there's probably deer down there that. weren't religious at all. and you know.

their DNA tracks back to that too. Uh. specific results she reported she. claimed 111 samples from 34 North. American sites produced two patterns. human MTD DNA and unusual or novel. nuclear sequences that supposedly did. not match known animals. Her. interpretation was that about 15,000. years ago, an unknown hominin male. population interbred with modern human. females, leading to a hybrid lineage. whose descendants are today's supposed.

Sasquatch. How and where it was. published. Study did not appear in a. normal established peer-reviewed. journal. Instead, it was put into an. obscure outlet called Denovo Scientific. Journal, which Ketchum herself. effectively controlled to get the paper. online. Science reporters and skeptics noted the. absence of transparent peerreview, the. payw wall for a self-published paper, and the lack of independent labs. reproducing her findings. But did. independent labs try to reproduce her.

findings? That's the question. Scientific criticism. Genetics, geneticists and forensic biologists who. examined the data and methodology have. repeatedly pointed to contamination and. poor lab practice as the most likely. explanation for her hybrid sequences. analysis noted that the MTD DNA being. 100% modern human is exactly what you. would expect from contaminated or human. origin samples and that the odd nuclear. sequences are consistent with mixed DNA.

sequencing errors or lowquality data not. a new species. current status of her DNA. claims. No major genetics lab or. independent research group has. replicated Ketchum's results or. confirmed a novel hominin genome. corresponding to Bigfoot. In mainstream. science, her study is treated as an. example of flawed junk science. interesting to Bigfoot enthusiasts but. offering no accepted evidence that. Sasquatch exists. But here's the thing.

Did anybody else try to test those. things? >> No. [clears throat] And let me explain. that argument they just used. >> They're talking to a bunch of idiots. So. when they say it's contaminated, >> right? >> So let's say I contaminated the sample, >> right? >> Well, Joe, my dad [snorts] was Russian. >> Mhm. >> The contaminated sample would show on. the m fraternal side Russian, >> right? >> It wouldn't show nothing, >> right? That's why that argument makes no.

sense. >> Well, I'm not a geneticist, so I don't. know if it makes sense. >> Yeah. >> You know what I'm saying? Like if if. that you could say, "Oh, this is why, you know, if you had someone who. understood DNA and contamination and the. whole process, they could maybe explain. it in a better way.". So, what the idea that humans interbred. with things is not a new idea. You know, I read something recently. Um, I. actually watched a YouTube video and. then read an article. I think we talked.

about this, pretty sure we did, where. they believe that Neanderl, they used to. think that Neanderl was a a subspecies, like a different version of humans and. that they interbred with us. There's a. group of people that now are speculating. that Neandertol was the result of humans. breeding with another ancient hominant. and that that created Neandertol. So. it's not that we interbred with.

Neandertol, but that humans actually. created Neandertol by breeding with this. other homminid. So there's only one country in the world. that ever took this topic seriously. >> Which country? >> Russia. >> They took their science academy and took. the five top scientists. This happened. 40 years ago. And they started studying. what was called Almasti, the same as our. Bigfoot. >> Okay? >> And. I'm not bullshitting you. This is 100%.

true. Two of their scientists came to. the US. I met one of them at a. conference in Colorado seven or eight. years ago. And I walk into the room and. he's holding both of my books as I walk. in. And he says, "Dave, you're the only. guy to tell the truth out of everybody. out here. What you're saying about the. DNA, what you're saying about the the. lineage is 100% fact. It's what we. found. And we know that they aren't any.

kind of ape or gorilla. It's it's a. human hybrid. that people don't understand. >> So, did the Russians think that it. exists currently? >> 100%. >> So, how are they hiding? >> How are they hiding? >> Yeah. >> So, if you think about we don't even. have the ability to do something with a. DNA like they like whatever this is. >> It's making a hybrid, >> right? >> Okay. So something.

far greater than us has learned to. manipulate DNA. And if you think that Bigfoot is. interdimensional, then wherever that came from. probably makes a whole lot more sense. scientifically than something. organically made here. And there is there in lies the reason. that we've haven't found a body. Uh, it can move in and out like it did. through that tube at Skinwalker Ranch.

And there's footage in our movie of what. appears to be a Bigfoot. evaporating into nothingness. >> What footage is this? >> Filmed by Scott Carpenter. >> What is it called? What's the the same. one that we're just talking about? >> American Sasquatch. >> Can we see that footage? Where is that. in the film? >> Um, it's during my interview with Scott. And so who took this footage? >> Scott. And what year was this taken?

>> Sometime in the last 10 years. >> Okay. And it shows something evaporating. like that. There's it looks like a. Bigfoot evaporating into nothing. What what you see is something kind of. like smokiness looking down a trail. >> Uhhuh. And then it slowly evolves. to look like something that you and I. would call a Bigfoot. Okay.

So, what you're saying is that we're not. dealing with a. standard biological organism. We're. dealing with something that's probably. the product of some advanced species and. that they've created this thing and this. thing has the ability to move in ways. and appear and reappear in ways that. don't make any sense to us. >> Correct. Well, that would make sense if.

[snorts] it was true. And again, putting. that [ __ ] tinfoil hat on tight right. now. That would make sense if you think about. how many sightings there are and that. there are no bones and there's no body. No one's found anything. There's. nothing. There's been footprints. The. footprints are weird. So, uh I'd like to. dismiss the footprints. Like, oh, come. on. Somebody just like made a fake. footprint. The problem is there's dermal. ridges on these footprints. Some of them. exhibit what's very similar to.

fingerprints. and that's very strange. And these are. going back decades. So super hard to. reproduce something like that. And. someone you would have I mean you'd have. to be a very very advanced person and. have some sort of uh incredible ability. to manipulate material science just to. just to be able to create something that. recreates a dermal ridge and then use it.

and make footprints with it that are. similar to what like a a creature would. make. It was very heavy moving through. the ground and pressing down on moist. ground or mud and leaving footprints. that have fingerprints in it. It's weird. because these are not it's not something. like you know I weigh like 205 lbs or. something like that. Like it's not like. that. It's like something that weighs. like 700 lb like deep into the ground. It's weird.

>> Abnormally heavy. >> Yeah. Abnormally heavy. large feet, but. again, no bones, no nothing. And the. only DNA it's like, you know, there's. it's disputed. But of course, people are. going to dispute everything. No one's. going to look at it and go, "This is. definitely not human." You know, they're. going to go, "Well, who did this? How'd. she do it?" You know, oh, this is a lab. that's like not not doing it well, and. they're publishing in some journal. behind a payw wall. This is nonsense.

But then you have to think, well, okay, but are any other reputable labs, these reputable labs, are they. interested in doing this work? Have they. done the work? Have they taken the same. stuff and done it through the exact same. process, but not found the same results. that she had, or is there no other. studies? Seems like there's no other. legitimate studies of the same DNA. Dr. Ketchum took that DNA to four certified. labs. One of them was the University of. Texas. And all of those labs got the.

same result. She extracted it. They did the analysis. She did the comparison to Genbank. And. she did this all herself or she had. other scientists do it. >> So she wrote a white paper and six. different PhDs wrote it. The the slam job there. I I think it's interesting because have. you heard of an organization called. BFRO? >> No. biggest organization in the United. States for Bigfoot sightings. >> Oh, okay. Bigfoot research organization.

Yeah. Yeah. I from finding Bigfoot. >> Right. Right. [laughter]. So, a man named Wally Hersam was their. benefactor. He gave him millions of. dollars over the years and he they had. one job, find DNA. 10 15 years they said they couldn't find. it. We found it in less than a year. Wally came over when we had the DNA and. looked at the results, met with Dr. Ketchum, said, "I am completely done.

You guys have proven to me exactly what. it is. I now know what it is." Pulled. all of his funding at that point. He was. out of the Bigfoot world. And he goes, "You guys did what nobody else could. do.". How come there's no good camera trap. photos? You know, like there's a lot of. trail cameras out there that hunters. use. >> How come there's no good trail cam. photos? Do you think the idea is that. these things know that cameras are. there?

>> So, I think they have that ability to. look in the infrared range. and they just stay away. Well, if they. are from somewhere else and you know, we're assuming they're primitive because. they're they're covered in hair, but. what if they have some sort of psychic. ability or some sort of intellect beyond. what we would attach to an ape and they. understand what cameras are?

>> So, do you know what the hitchhiker. effect is? >> No. So at Skinwalker Ranch, the. investigators coming onto that ranch. when they left and they went home, they. took those entities home with them. And. the entities didn't ever bother the. scientists. They bothered the relatives, the wives. They did spooky things. They'd come. around, show up in the home, chase the. kids around in the yard. >> What kind of entities? >> A variety of things. sometimes orbs,

sometimes silhouettes of people, but. things that never happened before. happened after these scientists went. home. And they talked about it on their. show, and it's happened a lot. >> One of the things that happens to people. that study Bigfoot is they have the same. hitchhiker effect. It doesn't matter. where you go for some reason. And you. were talking about, you know, maybe they. read your mind or something. There's. something there's some kind of effect. there that they'll they'll follow you. wherever you go. As an example, I live.

kind of in the middle of nowhere and. there's big woods behind my house and I. was walking behind the house one day. One track, middle of a muddy trail, no. other tracks any place else. 17 in, just one track. I can't tell you how many times other. friends of mine and researchers have had. the exact same thing happen. In the. movie I interviewed, I think seven or. eight researchers, all the best ones, they all say this has happened to them.

It's that hitchhiker effect that they. talk about at Skinwalker Ranch, which. goes to the point of it being something. extradimensional. I went to Skinwalker Ranch with my. friend Duncan a few years back. We I was. doing this show for the sci-fi channel. called Joe Rogan Questions Everything. And one of the things we did was we went. to Skinwalker Ranch and we talked to a. bunch of people there. >> and you know what some of them were just. clearly full of [ __ ] But there was this. one guy who was not and um he didn't.

have a lot of stories but he said uh. there was this one experience that he. had where these orbs made it into his. house and this orb flew through his wall. was inside of his home and it seemed. like it was interacting with him and. then it was like paused frozen in front. of him and then took off. This guy. seemed like. a completely rational, regular guy. He, like I said, he didn't have a bunch of.

crazy stories about other things. I. forget what his job was, but it was a. regular job, regular guy. Seemed totally. normal to talk to, but he said he had. this one inexplicable experience. He. said it was very strange. He said this. thing just flew into his home. He said. it was like I think he said it was like. the size of a softball, maybe a little. larger, and it seemed like it was. interacting with them. So, uh, one of. the people I interviewed for the movie. was a former Navajo Ranger. You ever. hear of those? Yes. So, they went to the.

Federal Law Enforcement Training Center, full law enforcement credentials, super. smart guy. He comes back, he works 10, 15 years for the Navajo Rangers. One. day, the lieutenant calls him in. He and. his partner, they say, "You got a new. assignment." "Oh, what's that?" "You're. gonna do nothing but investigate Bigfoot. and UFOs.". [laughter]. I'd be like, "Fuck yeah.". He goes, "Wait a minute. I don't want I. didn't sign up for that." He goes, "I.

don't care. That's your new job because. you guys are the two most credible. people I have. You're going to go do. that.". >> Well, because why? They had some sort of. a suspicion. Oh, they had tons of calls. about Bigfoot being on the property. UFOs showing up over property, all the. above. >> Okay? >> And they wanted some expertise in that. team. So, he and his friend start. investigating Bigfoot. And all of the. things I've just told you happened to. him and his partner over those years.

Um, Big They'd get a call at a lady's. house that she just saw Bigfoot on her. back porch. All the dogs are afraid. They're hiding under the porch. He goes. there and he finds a track in a straight. line. One thing about Bigfoot, as you. and I would walk down a street, we walk. staggeredly. Bigfoot walks one foot. right in front of the other. And that's. how you'll know it's real. Doesn't walk. staggered like you and mine. >> It walks like it's doing a DU DUI. checkpoint.

>> Exactly. Yes. [laughter]. Like it's walking on a balance beam. >> Huh. And the he talked about the stride was. four or five feet. He goes, "I couldn't. do it." And just like you were saying. that the track was so deep in the soil. they couldn't match it. He said it had. been hundreds and hundreds of pounds. That's just one thing. But over the. years they started to make this. association between Bigfoot and UFOs. They did this all on their own. And then.

he talked about the Native American. belief. Well, Native Americans believe. that they came from the stars. Each. tribe does. And just like you said, all. of the tribes have a different name for. these. >> Yeah. >> But nobody, no tribe believes it's an. animal. >> Really? >> No tribe believes it's an animal. >> What do they think it is? >> It's a human. It's an offshoot. There's a very. >> They think it came from the stars. >> They came from the stars. There's a very.

very famous set of stories coming out of. the Pacific Northwest out of the 1920s. and 30s where a tribe of Native. Americans hear that there's some people. walking down a trail through the woods. Bigfoot walks in front of them, starts. throwing rocks at him, doesn't hit him, throwing rocks at him. The people go. home, they tell the sheriff, "Hey, these. huge hairy things are throwing rocks at. us." Sheriff says, "Oh, that's that's a. BS. We'll go out there. We'll kill them.

all. The tribe hears about this and Joe, it makes no sense. They have a press. conference. Swear as I'm talking to you. And three. tribes in the Pacific Northwest have a. press conference and it's in the. Oregonian newspaper on the front page. When I found it, I said, "How come no. other Bigfoot researchers ever talked. about this?" Why? Because it doesn't. support their belief system that it's an. they think it's an ape or a gorilla. And. here the tribe saying it's a tribe of. people.

We've traded with them at times. >> What? >> They trade things with us at times. >> What do they give you back? >> Uh sometimes they they will give them. ornaments or certain kinds of foods that. they have a tough time getting and they. will come back and they will give them. certain kinds of food, animals, etc. But in this story on the front page of. the Oregonian, they talk about this. And. when I've gone to the Pacific Northwest. and Joe, there's not one tribe up there. that believes they're an animal. None of.

them do. And they're the ones that have. lived with them and handed these stories. down over the ages. And they all think that they come from. somewhere else. >> Yes. How do they think they got here? >> What's their like origin story? So, there's a man who owned a herd of. cattle and was wintering them on the. Oregon California border up north of. Crescent City.

And every year he'd done this. This one. year, this is another article in the. paper. This one year he they winter with. the Native Americans there. He sees this. Native American walking with a tray of. food. Doesn't think much of it the first day. Second day he sees the guy walk up into. the mountains up to this cliff area. Guy. comes back and he says, "Hey, uh, what's. that for?" He goes, "I can't talk to you. about that." So, he goes straight to the. chief. He owns all the cattle he's.

working with the Native Americans. He. goes to the chief. The chief goes, "We've got Harry up there." Harry Moon. He goes, "Yeah, this thing came and it. comes every couple months. There's. usually two of them that come together.". He goes, "What do you mean?" He says, 'We see a moon come out of the sky. It's. very bright. It comes down near the land. and these two jump out of the moon. and they're friendly. They get along. with us and they stay there and we feed.

them sometimes. So that was in like 1885 newspaper. And you think about that story, how else. would they describe an orb, say, >> right? >> There's no other way to describe it back. then, >> right? It comes down, these things jump out of. it and they run into the woods and the. Native Americans have been dealing with. them for all these years. That's that's really the story. Wow.

Now, the rational part of me, of course, wants to call [ __ ] but. the part that's willing to speculate, again, if so many people are having this. very similar experience with this tall, hairy, apeike thing in the woods, you. got to wonder like why is it the same. thing? Like, why is it over and over. again? And why do Native Americans have. so many different names for this? And. when again, they don't have a bunch of. mythical animals. It's not like they.

have tons of these like weird things. that no one's ever seen before. Dragons. and No, just one thing. >> Well, they do they do have these things. called little people. Have you heard of. those? >> What are those? >> That's very odd. Something that kind of. looks like you and me, >> but they're only about 3 feet tall. >> And they look like miniature kind of. like dwarves. Well, people have those. experiences when they do mushrooms. >> Yeah. But. >> you know, do you know that there's a.

specific mushroom that when you take it, everyone sees little tiny people? >> I didn't know that. >> Yeah. This is a there was a recent. article about this. See if you can find. that, Jamie. Um there's uh one very. specific type of hallucinogenic mushroom. where when you take it universally. everyone experiences little tiny people. like little like you know elves from. ancient stories. I mean what do you. think why why is that so common? Like.

what is that? They saw them on their dishes when. eating the mushrooms that make people. hallucinate dozens of tiny humans. Now, we're saying hallucinate, but we don't. if everyone's seeing the same exact. vision, that's very strange. Every year, doctors at a hospital in the Eunan. province of China brace themselves for. an influx of people with an unusual. complaint. The patients come in with. strikingly odd symptom. Visions of.

pint-sized elf-like figures marching. under doors, crawling up wells, and. clinging to furniture. The hospital. treats hundreds of these cases every. year. All share a common culprit. Uh I. don't know how to say this. Lao. looo. a. asiatica. >> Asiatica. I know that one. >> Asiatica. The first. >> Okay. Asiatica. Duh. Lau. Whatever it.

is. Lan. L A n M A O A. Uh. Aiatica. type of mushroom that forms symbiotic. relationships with the pine trees in. nearby forests and is locally popular. food known for its savory umami pack. flavor in Yunan. Uh Eliatica is sold in. markets. It appears on restaurant menus. and is served at home during peak. mushroom season between June and August. One must be careful to cook it.

thoroughly though, otherwise the. hallucinations will set in. Or don't. cook it at all, [ __ ] Come on. Don't. you want to see the elves? Why would you. Why would you cook it? >> Outside of Eunan and a couple other. places, the strange mushroom is largely. an enigma. There are many accounts of. the existence of this psychedelic. mushroom and many people who looked for. it but they never found the species says. uh Juliana Fi a micologist and the. founder and executive of the fungi.

federation a nonprofit group dedicated. to discovering documenting and. conserving fungi. Uh this person Dom. Nauer is on a quest to solve the decades. old mystery about this fungi species and. identify the unknown compound. responsible for its unusually similar. hallucinations as well as what it can. potentially teach us about the human. brain. You know the thing is like is it.

teaching us something about the human. brain or is it allowing you to see. something that's actually there all the. time? I. >> what's at the bottom of that? Liipuchian. >> I was going to show you. Oh, when I. typed it into perplexity, there's at. least one. >> type something. >> Yeah. It says, "Many indigenous nations. have their own name for little people. In the English phrase is just a loose. umbrella term. Each language has. specific words. It usually means. something like little people, dwarves, or forest people." The Cherokee have it.

What's that word? Yuni. Sunundai. Um, usually translated as little people. Chakawa. Um, they have another crazy. word. Uh, little people and forest. dwelling type called Kawi Anuasha. or forest dweller. Chicksaw have them. for little people. Small supernatural. beings. Yeah, there's so many of these.

things like. >> medicinal plants. >> Uhhuh. Describes a little person who. provides corn and medicinal plants. Well, many many many people who have. taken mushrooms, see little tiny people, see little elves. And in fact, you know, that is uh a core part of the Santa. Claus mystery. You know, Santa Claus, have you ever seen the relationship. between Santa Claus and a mushroom. called the ammonita mascaria? Do you.

know that whole thing? Yeah. >> But one of the weird things about Santa. Claus is if you go back and look at old. Christmas art, like Christmas art from. the turn of the century, all of it has. ammonita mascaria mushrooms in it and. elves. It's very weird that you would. connect Christmas with elves and a known. hallucinogenic mushroom and that these. little elves and these big mushrooms are. all together and it's merry Christmas.

See if you can find some of those old. they're they're really weird because. it's like how did we forget that and how. did that go away? And there's also the. way Santa Claus looks himself. Santa. Claus with his red outfit, with his. bright red outfit with the white cuffs. and the white buttons. The mushroom. itself is bright red with white spots on. it. Like look at these. Look how weird. that is. Look. Santa Claus with psychedelic.

mushrooms. >> Got to be careful a little bit now cuz. we've talked about it. Some of it has to. have been created. >> Oh yeah. You know, like we've [ __ ] up. the whole world. >> This [laughter] is too new. Like that's. brand new. >> Is it brand new? That's not vintage. Look at that. Looks awesome. That's the. way I made it. Yeah, it's on Etsy. >> Oh, yeah. Probably. But some of the old. ones are real. Like the one in the. middle is legit. Like that one's legit. right there that you just put up there. And that one's from somewhere else. Look. at that. How crazy is that? I wrote an. article for my website. Santa Claus was. a mushroom a long time ago about this.

And I probably [ __ ] up the whole. algorithm, but if you look at these. images, these are ancient images that um. the one that you had up there with the. foreign language on it where it says. psychedel Yeah, that one. Like, how. weird is that? That these little elves. are carrying these giant psychedelic. mushrooms with them and they're walking. off with it. And this has to do with. Christmas. How? Why does Christmas have. to do with psychedelic mushrooms? The. question is, are these compounds, are.

you hallucinating when you take these. compounds or is it opening up your. vision to see things that are there all. the time anyway? >> Good question, right? And like how many. people have gone and taken mushrooms in. the woods and seen Bigfoot? It's another. question. Like how many people have. taken psychedelic compounds that. dissolve the ego completely put you in a. different set different space in terms. of your head space and then you're able.

to see things perhaps that are there all. the time anyway. The Bigfoot one is so weird because I. always want to dismiss it. The rational. part of me wants to go, "Oh, shut up. It's all nonsense." I go back and forth. with Bigfoot. And then the other part of. me goes too many people. Too many people. see the same thing. Too many people have. had the they can't all be crazy or. liars. They can't all be. And if they're. not, then like what is that thing? And. why why is there no dead body? Why is.

there Well, maybe because it's not the. same as we are. Maybe it comes from. somewhere else. And maybe that is the. whole the whole experience that the. whole experience is weird and that you. really can't quantify it. You can't you. can't talk about it the same way you. talk about like oh you know I know where. a sloth lives. You know it's like it's a. different kind of a creature. So I've. been around some people that say they. believe that we're part of a simulation.

Mhm. >> And part of that simulation is. you get enough coins and you can drop in. a new entity in the game [laughter]. that can screw with you. Oh boy. Yeah. You get the right. mushrooms and you see little people. crawling up your chair. [laughter]. Or let's let's see how this guy handles. a Bigfoot walking in front of him, >> right? Yeah. >> See how much his blood pressure goes up. >> Right. Yeah. Well, it's also whatever.

we're doing in this in as a human being. going through this life, you know, you. have a certain understanding of what's. real and what's not real and what to. expect and what not to expect based on. your life experiences, based on what. everybody else is telling you about the. world around you. And you kind of. categorized everything into what's real. and what you what you're going to. experience walking through this world. But just what we know about the material.

world is so bizarre. Just what we know. about subatomic particles, just what we. know about the very nature of matter. itself, that's all energy condensed in. in different weird ways. And that most. of what atoms are is empty space and. that a particle like subatomic particle. can ex appear and disappear. We don't. know where they're going. They could. appear they could be both moving. They. can be moving and still at the same.

time. They could be in a place of superp. position. Like what are we talking about. with just reality itself? Reality itself. at the lowest observable, the smallest, the deepest we can look at it, it's. [ __ ] magic. Like reality itself is. magic. And then you have the the. weirdness of the observer effect that. when you when you pay attention to. particles, they they behave differently. That's right. And that there's some sort of research.

that shows that we somehow or another we. can actually affect particles in the. past. Like quantum physicists talk about. this, not cooks like me, but quantum. physicists talk about that there's some. sort of evidence that the observer. effect can affect things in the past. Well, how far in the past? If it's only. a few seconds, is it a millisecond? And. what is it limited to that or is it not. like is it the whole world flexible? Is.

everything malleable? Is everything. dependent upon consciousness? And then. what is consciousness? >> Is it simply what's in between your. ears? >> Or are you tuning in to consciousness? And it's just the limitations of your. radio that's making the world around you. shape into the form that you currently. see. And maybe that is why when you add. things to that radio like psychedelic. mushrooms, like the ones that make you. see the little people or the ones that. make you see elves at Santa Claus,

you know, we I think we get we get real. arrogant when we talk about what reality. is, especially when we know from our. understanding of reality that reality. again at its quantum state is. essentially in insane and impossible. It's magic. friend of mine the other day. said, "Hey Dave, why don't you go with. me? I'm going to go do ayawaska again.". He's done it a few times and he says, "Dave, it'll open up your mind to things. that you just don't understand that are.

real." And he goes, "I've done it a. couple times. I've had replicant. seeing the same thing multiple multiple. times that I know I could never see. without it." Have you ever done it? >> I have not done Iawaska, but I is the. orally active form of DMT, and I've done. that. >> Yeah. Is your experience positive? >> Yeah, I've never had a negative. experience. Uh, but it is very strange. and it feels more real than reality. itself. And you are 100% communicating.

with creatures, some beings, things that. are they they they appear to be living. geometric patterns. Um, I've had uh. multiple experiences with gestures, with. things that look like jesters where. they're giving me the finger and uh and. they were basically telling me that I. take myself too seriously. They were. like, "Fuck you." And then I like I was. like, "What?" And then I was like, "Oh, I get it." And they're like, "Right.".

They were like telling me like, "Yeah, yeah, you you take yourself too. seriously." I was like, "You're right. You're right." Like you Yeah. You have. to be very careful with the experience. because if you're a control freak, if. you can't just let go, you can lose your. marbles. You can really go crazy. Um, and it's not really recommended to. anybody that has a slippery hold on. reality already, like people with. psychiatric conditions and people that. are already kind of [ __ ] up. But if. you're reasonably stable and you are.

calm and rational and you can just let. go, it is a wild experience. It's a wild. experience that should not be illegal. and should probably be studied and. understood. Um, what was the guy that we. had on recently, Jamie? The guy who was. doing uh Andrew. Gallamore, how do you say his name? who. is doing those um they're setting it up. on a country where where it's legal and. they're doing um IV DMT trips that last.

like 5 hours and these people they go. and they have this experience and when. they do it they all encounter similar. places similar beings and similar. patterns like they come back with very. similar stories like they're making a. map of the territory. of whatever this is that you're doing. And they all have the exact same way of. describing it, which is similar to the. way I described it before I ever heard.

of any of this, is that it feels more. real than reality itself. Reality itself. seems very dull and very. smooshy and um not not crisp, if that's. the way to say it. Whereas the DMT. experience is very vivid. The colors are. insanely bright. The experience that you. get by encountering whatever these. creatures seems way more powerful than. any kind of experience that you have in.

normal everyday consciousness. >> So does that drug open some kind of door. or receiver or trans? >> We call it a drug, but the problem with. calling it a drug is the human brain. makes it. So Terrence McKenna had a. great line. He said, "If DMT is a drug, everyone's holding because you got to. make something illegal that's produced. by the human body." Like, we know for a. fact it's produced in the brain. We know. for a fact that the mind actually makes. this compound, which is the most potent.

psychedelic compound known to man. It's. very weird when the human mind, the. human brain rather, makes a psychedelic. compound that's the most potent compound. known to man. Not just that, but it. exists in thousands of different plants. The problem is when we eat them, um, it. gets broken down in our gut by monoamine. oxidase. Like there's a bunch of. different gr likeis grass is very rich. in it. Uh, the acacia tree is very rich.

in it. In fact, there's some scholars. from Jerusalem that believe that the. story of Moses in the burning bush was. Moses burning the acacia bush which has. DMT in it and experiencing God. which completely tracks if you think. about it like this is what the. experience feels like. It feels like. you're dealing with an all powerful. entity that's filled with love and. understanding and knows you better than. you know yourself and gives you.

guidelines on how to live life. and that Moses came back from this. experience with these commandments, how. to live life that we all agree today. We. look at those commandments like these. are very reasonable, makes a lot of. sense. So sometimes I'm sitting at my. desk and I've got my dog laying next to. me and the dog's looking down the. hallway at my kitchen and I've got a. great pyrenees. and she's just laying there looking.

Then like one every four or five days. she'll just jump up at like 10:00 at. night and start growling at something. down the hall. Little people, I don't. know what it is. She sees something we. don't see. >> So are they always there? Mhm. It's a. good question. And what can the animals. see that we can't? Because they. definitely see things that we can't. They experience things that I mean, their senses are so different than ours. We just assume that we both live in the. same world, but we clearly don't. Dogs. live in a different world than us. The.

the world that they experience is rich. with smells and sounds and they hear. things and they smell things that we. couldn't even imagine what they are. >> Yeah. these uh the the weird thing about. DMT is that someone figured out in the. Amazon. thousands and thousands of years ago, no. one even knows when, how to make this. plant orally active. So what they did is. they took the the leaves of one plant. and the roots of the other. So one of.

the plants contains dimethylryptamine. and the other one contains harm which is. an MAO inhibitor monoamine oxidase. inhibitor and this MAO inhibitor allows. DMT to be orally active. Whereas if you. just ate that plant the monoamine. oxidase in your gut would break the. plant down and you would never. experience the DMT trip. Like how how. did they figure out how to do that? How. >> and you ask them they tell them the. plants told them how to do it. Yeah. Right. Like what? Yeah. But when.

you think about people that were living. in this incredibly rich life jungle for. thousands and thousands and thousands of. years and with no contact with the. western world as we know it today, right? So this is thousands of years. ago. They're living in they they have. the subsistence lifestyle living with. animals and plants and fish and they.

probably are deeply in tuned with the. jungle and deeply in tune with the. wildlife and the plants in a way that we. can't even possibly understand. >> and that we've probably dulled all those. senses or they've atrovied to a point, >> you know, where we just we we just. assume that everybody sees the world the. way we do. And I don't think those. people did or do. >> 100%. >> They all have they all talk about. experiences with entities from somewhere.

else, too. >> Yes. >> Yeah. >> It's a very weird world out there. And. that's why, you know, when someone tells. a story about being abducted by a craft. from another dimension, it's so easy to. just dismiss them. It's so easy to just. throw it all away. But I mean, look, I. was watching Fox News yesterday where. they were talking about the different. kinds of entities that the the United. States government has encountered. Did. you see that? I saw it. >> Like, have you seen it? Did you see that. [ __ ] Jamie? >> But I've [clears throat] been waiting to.

sit. I'd show you this thing that was. part of the movie. He shows on this. I. have it on the screen. Uh, that's the. box, if you will, the transparent box. that Carl, >> who we talked about earlier, was taken. into. >> Oh, Jesus. >> Where he was once he was in there. >> Hold this thought cuz I got to peek. We'll come right back and we'll talk. about this box. I got to pee real bad. >> We're back. [snorts]. >> All right. So, we were at. >> this portal. >> I was showing you this guy. So, he had. uh this transparent, which I would say. is like, you know, transparent cube.

>> This is what he described. >> Probably could have a sphere in this. Yeah. So he said he described that. showing up and a six- foot tall figure. came out and. >> a black jumpsuit to come there but said. telepathically come with me. >> He got in it and there he saw his. targeted elk frozen in beams of light. >> alongside five figures humanlike figures. that seemed more spectral than alive, stiff, unblinking like passengers in.

stasis. And then the ship shifted. >> and took him 163,000 lighty years away. and ended up on a tower on an alien. planet [laughter]. >> where they fixed all of his ailments. >> A tower on an alien planet under a. violet sky. >> Yeah. >> And then they said like they're not. you're not suitable. They don't we can't. use you. Sorry. >> Because of his. >> cuz he's got no jizz. >> And then he was found miles away sort of. just like how um Travis Wall was found. >> Whoa. Hypnosis Sessions later revealed.

more uh what's his name? AOSO. >> That's the in quotes alien. That would. be the entity. >> Auso one. >> Okay. Yeah. >> Uh kind. We're experimenting on humans. and animals possibly for genetic or. dimensional purposes. Carl's truck was. found miles away in impassible terrain, embedded in mud with him inside, babbling about lights and voices in. impassible terrain.

>> Yeah. >> Whoa. >> So, there's a bunch of I mean, >> so his his truck was just placed in a. place where it couldn't get to. >> Correct. >> There's a bunch of pictures that I don't. know if I'm imagining [snorts] he drew. some of these cuz in that video. >> No, bro. Those are photos. >> No, >> that's that's it. >> He holds up this photo. So I think he. drew this. So he's an older man and drew. what he remembered. So a little bit of. leeway. >> Oh, so he drew the one there and then. someone did an artist recreation. Oh, look at that. Weird. >> like weird arm like a knife for an arm.

or something. >> He said he thought that those were. almost robotic. >> Oh, interesting. Well, that kind of makes sense, right? That eventually being This is the photos. of the bullet. It kind of makes sense. that eventually we would realize like. why would we travel places where we. could just make like an artificial. person to do it and report back to us. everything. Why why risk a human's life? >> 100%. >> Which is what we're about to do. That's. what Elon's doing to the moon. He's. going to send the robots up to make the.

stuff on the moon. >> way easier than sending people. >> Of course, >> you don't need air. They don't need air. >> That makes sense why he's canceling the. Model S and you know that and the X. >> get to work. >> Yeah. get those Optimus ro because he's. he's uh transformed some of his. factories. They've they've stopped the. Model S and the Model X and they're. using it to make these Optimus robots. instead that factory. >> and then these robots are going to fly. to the moon. >> If we had that idea, no one else like. you know. >> of course. >> no one else has had that same thing.

>> Yeah, of course it makes sense. So he he. got a sense that this was a robot. >> Yes. A lot of people have also said that. about the grays that they get the sense. that they're not really an actual. physical like or a biological organism. that they're some sort of a hybrid thing. or some sort of a whatever. >> The thing that got me about that is that. if it was robotic but it still has the. ability to mind speak. >> Mhm. >> That is really advanced. >> Yeah. Well, I mean we have to figure out. what consciousness is, right? And what.

communication is. And if if there's. something you could tune it, you could, you know, you could have a robot that. could speak out loud. So why can't you. have a robot that transmits? Why couldn't I mean with sufficient. enough technology, it kind of makes. sense you would have something that has. the ability to transmit into your mind? So, do you think with when you're. studying all these different people. missing and like do you try to put a. percentage on how many of these people.

you think just got eaten by bears and. how many of these people you think are. having these kind of experiences? >> So, if there's any evidence of animal. predation, I don't even work with them. I just push them out. They're. >> right. >> won't even look at the case. >> You're only looking at the cases that. are super weird. >> that fit that. No animals can track. Canines can't track, >> right? there. They bring a professional. tracker. They can't track. Uh there's a. weather issue in relationship to the. disappearance. Uh sometimes they people are found near.

next to water or amongst a boulder. field. Now there's another one, Joe. Boulder fields. Now, if you think about. where's the most boulders and granite, it's Yoseite Valley. And what goes. through the middle of Yusede Valley? Water. the Merced River and that area. specifically. That's a hard valley to get lost in. But. yet, how did these people get lost? And. we're not talking about people going. into the back country. We're talking.

about people getting lost in Yusede. Valley that disappear and aren't found. And there's a couple of case, well, probably 10 cases that are just. absolutely bizarre. Uh there's a case. that was investigated by Yusede. investigators back 40 years ago as a. woman came out and they found her body. so far away from a cliff that they said. she their words she was launched.

So it's like if you jumped or you fell. you could only go so far from the cliff, >> right? She was found too far from the. cliff and they called it launched, but. they couldn't understand how she got. that far. >> Not possible with a gust of wind. >> No, not. >> how far was she? >> That's all that that's that was their. wording. >> that she had to have been launched. >> Right. And norm I've never seen that wording. before in any park service report.

They're usually very conservative in the. way they discuss things. And so this. aligns with this idea that they get. dropped. >> Correct. >> That's very disturbing that aliens would. do that to us. Just drop us. >> Like I would think that if they're going. to abduct you, hey, place me back in my. bed. >> So be nice. >> So pay attention when the next time you. see a story about somebody being. abducted. A lot of times they're dropped. in their bed. >> They're not placed, they're dropped.

Um, how many of these people that go. missing like this under weird. circumstances die versus just disappear. forever? I would say that it's probably 40% 50%. are never found. I would say that maybe. half of that half that's left, 25, split between alive and dead. But you find out a lot more about the.

case if you get the body back because. the body sometimes will show things that. doesn't make any sense at all. A lot of. times. the person will disappear and it's an. 80° day. We talk about that point of. separation. >> You going this way, I'm going to the. right. And a 100 yards from where I last. saw you, there's a pile of clothes. there. And you're thinking, well, it's. 80° out. Why is there a pile of clothes? his underwear, his socks, his shoes, everything piled right there. He's never.

found. Where'd he go? Why would he take. all his clothes off? People would say, "Well, you know, he uh. it's hypothermia and there's a condition. where you take all your clothes off.". >> Not in 80° weather. >> Not in 80° weather. Not that fast. It. doesn't happen. And so missing clothing, missing shoes are part of this that. don't make any sense. If you're in the. woods, you're on a trail, you're not. going to take your shoes off.

It's all very weird. Does anybody ever. have an experience where they go and. they get abducted and then they ask what. happens to some of these people? How. many people do you do this to? >> It must have happened, but I don't know. if they've ever gotten a response from. it. Has anybody ever asked how many people. do you abduct? How many people have you. taken like this? I'm sure they've asked, but I'm not sure that they would have. gotten an answer.

>> Huh. And then you know that there. there's a theory out there that there's. more than one type or one group taking. people. >> Yeah. >> Well, this is the Fox News thing. See if. you could find that Fox News report. because it's kind of wacky because. watching it on Fox News you're like is. Fox News all of a sudden coast to coast. with Art Bell? Like what what the hell. has happened? Because they were talking. about the reptilians and the Nordics, the Grays, Fox News, TV, like regular TV. Like what.

is going on here? Is that nonsense? Are. they being fed nonsense or is this. disclosure and are they slow trickling. this out to us to get regular folks like. boomers get them accustomed to this idea. of there are entities out there? What if. they're just acclimating you. >> to to the reality of our world? And what. if what if the truth is is that there's.

people around you. that are aliens and you don't even know. it. I think Elon's a [ __ ] alien. It's. the only thing that makes sense. I think. I met a few aliens. Definitely. Joey. Diaz might be an alien. There's a few. people that I've met. I'm like, "You're. not real. There's no way you're real.". [laughter]. But Elon's the top of my list. Like, it. doesn't even make sense. Like I I've met. a lot of people that are smarter than. me. I I'm you know I'm not the smartest. guy but uh there's only a few people.

that I met I'm like okay we're not even. the same thing. Okay, let's hear this. And this is what Dan from um Age of. Disclosure. That's one of. >> people I interviewed in my film, senior. intelligence officials, went on the. record saying that um there have been. dozens of crashed craft of non-human. origin over the years. And elements of. our government have recovered those. those crashes and they've gotten out of. that technology of non-human origin and. in some cases non-human bodies that were. on these on these craft. A number of the.

people in my film go on the record. saying that the bodies were not all the. same type, meaning there were multiple. species. >> Were the bodies alive or were they dead? >> The people in my film talked about uh. events where they were they were dead. bodies. They were deceased bodies. >> Okay. And. >> yeah, >> there's a lot of speculation about the. amount of UFO information we've been. given on this first trunch. Uh, we.

expected more. We know there is more. Why do you have that word before. so hard to release more? >> Yeah. So, the president gave his. directive in middle of February, essentially instructing all federal. agencies to declassify evidence of. non-human intelligent life and UAP. What. happened after that is uh the White. House had to go get that evidence out of. the hands of all these federal agencies. and they all they all for the most part. pushed back uh the people who have. gatekept this information for 80 years.

They don't they don't want to share it. You know, they've they've gotten a lot. of power and control um over the years. and it's just frankly not human nature. for people to want to give up power and. control. So, there's a tug-of-war. happening behind the scenes. Um, there. are a number of other reasons guiding. their their desire to keep this secret, including a general belief that the. public can't handle the truth. Uh, I. would argue the public can handle the. truth. I think my my film shows that uh. people aren't watching it and jumping. out of windows. They're they're curious.

and they want to learn more. Uh, there's. also a general feeling that a concern. that they can't tell the American public. what they know and don't know without. also telling our adversaries and giving. them some sort of advantage. Um, but I. think I think that that's. >> Is that good? >> Yeah, that's good. Go back to that one. weird one in the beginning, the black. and white one that looked like a star. that looked like um. >> that's been debunked, I think, by Yeah. >> Oh, how dare they? >> Uh, [clears throat] that. >> that one that's debunked, >> but this is one of the more recent ones.

that was released in this immense. >> dump of information. How's it been. debunked? >> Uh, it's like I'll [ __ ] look. >> I'm gonna debunk the debunkers. [ __ ]. off. That thing's awesome. I want that. thing to be real. Um, yeah, that's Dan Farah from uh Age. of Disclosure, which if you haven't seen. it, folks, amazing documentary, very. interesting. You know, it's a bunch of. different people that have inside. information that are talking about it. And one of Here they're just debunking.

it. The eight-ointed star refers to a. declassified 2013 infrared military v. video released as part of the government. UFO files. The footage was widely. debated online and linked to alien or. biblical origins. However, experts. debunk the phenomenon, explaining it is. simply a distortion caused by a hot jet. engines exhaust fume plume hitting a. military infrared camera. Allegedly, I prefer to believe that it's something.

else. I don't know. Let me add another. twist to this missing person thing for. you. >> Okay, please. So, it's more of an. evolution for me learning what could be. happening in those woods. And I started. off in national parks. And the most recent thing I've done, Missing 411 National Parks, Washington. State. There's a case where a guy in. 2006 disappeared in Olympic National. Park. He was a former former army. intelligence officer. He uh worked in.

Israel. He worked in Africa. He worked. in a lot of different places, spoke six. languages, and then he started to work. in campaigns. And he worked for a woman. who was campaigning to be a. congresswoman in Washington state. She. lost. She became the head of retirement. services in the state of Washington. She. brought him along as the assistant. His. name was Gilbert Gilman. When I wrote the story up for my books, he was supposed to show up at this.

meeting for her on a Sunday. He stopped. off at at Olympic National Park, parked. his car, was playing the music loud, a. ranger come by, asked him to turn it. down. He turned it down, he got out, and. he walked into the woods. He never came. back. Huge search he's never found. That's all I really knew. And I wrote it. up like that. Canines couldn't follow. his track. It disappeared. Blah blah. blah. Then I interview, we set up doing. this thing for the movie, interviewing. his relatives, and I interview his.

girlfriend. and his girlfriend said she. saw him a month beforehand. and she said uh a week before he. disappeared he was trying to call me. like he wanted to tell me something and. I was busy and I couldn't talk to him. and I knew he wanted to tell me. something but then I put it up so. something was wrong I I never got to. talk to him again so I start talking to. her about his past and I said well did. he ever work for the CIA. and Joe she goes. I don't know if I could talk about that.

I said, "Well, why can't you talk about. that?" "Well, I don't I don't know. I. don't think I can.". >> Well, that means yes. >> Exactly. So [laughter]. So she gets emotional. She's upset. She. can't see him. And then we go into the. next room, interview his mom, and his. mom says, "Well, Dave, a lot of people. don't know this, that before he. disappeared, I have a penthouse in Chicago. This.

woman's really wealthy, and Gilbert has. a bedroom there, and he asked me to. stack a couple books on his nightstand, and he wrote something on a yellow pad. on my coffee table in Arabic. And I said, "How long would that sit was. that sitting there?" And she goes, "Well, I I went one week and he. disappeared. I never got to really look. at it and then I flew to Washington, so. I don't know what he wrote.". So Joe, here's the kicker. I said,

"Well, that's pretty strange." And she. goes, "No, Dave. What's really strange. is I'm in Washington and we're doing. this search for Gilbert and the people. who run my townhouse, my condominium, she lives like the 30th floor, called me. and said, "Two FBI agents were just here. and they said they needed to get into. your townhouse." And I gave them the. keys and I went into the they went into. your townhouse and took some things. I said, "Mrs. Gilman, they can't do. that. I don't care what they say. They.

need a search warrant to go in your. house. He can't give permission. What. was taken? Well, I went back. The yellow. pad was gone and a couple of his. personal things were gone. So, I said, "This doesn't make any. sense. Why would the FBI go into your. house to retrieve anything of Gilbert's. if this is a missing person case and he. has no relationship to the government?". And she goes, "Well, Dave, you're asking. what I've been thinking all along." Now, this this happened 15 years before I I.

interviewed her. She's sharp as attack. Girlfriend, sharp as attack. And she. says, "Things haven't seemed right." And. she said, "I think I think he's alive. somewhere.". So, as she's saying all this, my mind's. racing and I'm thinking, how many other. people have disappeared in a national. park under circumstances that I just. heard from a girlfriend and the mom, but I don't know about them because I.

haven't been able to interview their. girlfriends and their moms. And why wouldn't the park service give. me the information on the report. if it was a straight missing person case. like this? They would. So really, is. there something more nefarious going on. in the parks. about taking people that they're in. conjunction with some other body, some. other three-letter agency. to make people go away?

So, they're doing this on purpose with. people that have information that's. inconvenient or that's top secret or. they don't want it being leaked somehow. >> I had the feeling Gilbert knew. I think. I think it was all planned. >> He knew that they were going to take. him. >> Yeah. And I think he he agreed to go. >> Why Why do you think that? >> Because he left that pad with the with. the writing in Arabic. >> Did he speak Arabic?

>> He spoke six languages. >> and we don't know what he wrote down in. Arabic. >> No. >> Okay. >> And she also said a peculiar thing. I. don't I'm sorry I don't remember the. books, but he asked her to get two books. and put on the counter and she thought. that that was a clue to what happened. Dante's Inferno might have been one of. them. And I forgot the other book, but she. said, "I Dave, I think that's a clue. I. just don't understand what he was trying.

to say.". Huh. But that's also not the first time. something like this has happened where. somebody disappeared and it was all. pointing to the government. In the. 1950s, there was a man that was going to. Miami University. He played in their band. He was a. wrestler for the varsity wrestling team. He was an all-around guy. One night, uh, he comes home to his dorm. and strangely there's a fish in his bed.

and he asks the RA for new sheets. She. brings in new sheets. He gets him. changed. Make a long story short, he disappears. right after that, that night. So, it's. like that's the message that you're. going to go that night or something. I. don't know. So everything just looks like the guy. disappeared from college except 5 months. later the head of housing for Miami. univers or Miami, Ohio.

is at a city 10 miles north of the. Pennsylvania border in New York. A. little tiny city. He and his wife are. having dinner at a bed and breakfast. And sitting across from him, 10 feet. away, are three men at a table. And he says, "I'm telling you that was. Ron Tam." That's the guy's name. And. he's talking to the wife and they keep. keep looking at each other.

So [snorts] they go out to the parking. lot. He tells his wife, "I've got to go. back in. Ron's disappeared. I've got to. go talk to him." So he goes back in and. all three of the guys are gone, all. dressed in suits. That was another. indicator that the government had some. something to do with the disappearance. Now, Ron's family lived in LA. They. never saw Ron again. Never heard from. him again. >> And what do you think they're doing? Like, why would they do that? >> Well, the question I and I've talked to. my team about this. Why would the.

government need you to separate yourself. from the family under unusual. circumstances? What would be that point? I don't understand. If you wanted to go to work for. government services, why wouldn't you. just do it? There's. >> a story about fish in Ron's bed on. Ronald Tamman.com. This is the right. guy. >> Yeah, that's him. >> Says that this was a prank. Someone. confessed it to him in 2010. The fish. was a prank. >> That's what it says. 2010 he confessed.

to me at the club behind the fish prank. >> Okay, but still the guy disappeared. Think of it this way. In these. emotionally charged and divisive times. when no one seems to agree on much of. anything, I present to you the one. shining example of a core belief with. with which all of humanity can surely. agree and at that time honored value is. this. No one in his or her right mind. would ever knowingly sleep with a dead. fish in their bed. [laughter].

Depends on how tired you are. [snorts]. Okay, this doesn't make any sense to me. So when these guys just disappear, like. you think that he knew he was going to. be taken, >> Ron? I don't know. >> You don't know? But the other guy that. went into the woods, you think he he. knew? >> I think Gilbert knew. >> And how do you think he was taken? [snorts]. >> That's a good question. I don't know. >> He might be a victim of a serial killer. that someone else investigated on a TV. show 10, 12 years ago.

>> That's completely BS. >> Why do you think that? Uh if a serial. killer killed him in the middle of the. woods, they would have found his body. >> H the guy said that he put at least one. maybe up to eight bodies 100 feet at the. bottom of the lake. >> Oh, >> maybe. he admitted to at least eight slangs. before he died at age 34. >> Oh, >> didn't say he killed this guy, but.

>> but he killed him in that area. >> Yeah. >> Oh, well, that's possible. That that. would be why they didn't find the body. They should have found tracks to a kill. site. They would have found evidence, >> right? They would have probably found. some blood. >> And remember, they were they were on. that from the day he disappeared. >> And they were they had dogs. Yeah. >> They would have found blood. >> Correct. >> Unless they strangled him. >> Well, even if they would have strangled. him, there would have been so many. people in that area. That guy would have. been seen at least.

>> Really? How? Was this like wooded? You're talking about a lake? Are you. sure they'd been seen? >> There's a small parking lot. Not a big. area, right? This isn't like a a real. big parking lot. A real big. >> This guy had done this to a bunch of. people for sure. >> Not not right there. >> No. >> No. >> Okay. Um, the guy who disappeared and. went to the woods. And you you think. that guy, what was his name again? >> Ron Tamman. >> No, the other guy. The guy that that. disappeared and went to the woods.

>> Gilbert Gilman. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. When when that guy disappeared, which is which is Gilbert? Is this the. serial killer one? >> Okay. The the guy that you said parked. his car and went to the woods and you. think that he knew that he was going to. be taken? >> Yeah. >> What do you think happened to him when. he went to the woods? >> I think somehow they had some extraction. method and who knows what that is. He. was he was wearing Bermuda shorts, flipflops. He wasn't somebody that was. going for a hike. That was the other.

indicator. He was wearing like a. Hawaiian shirt. Even the ranger said she. thought that the him playing the loud. music. >> was a signal. >> That was a signal for her to come over. and acknowledge that he was there. >> Okay. So, he planned his disappearance. maybe. >> or he wanted her to see her there, see. him there. That was the indicator. Do. you ever wonder like if you're losing. your marbles studying all these. different things? You know what I mean?

Like you're you're going over so many. different cases, so many kooky. circumstances and different people. disappearing that you're your whole. perspective on this stuff gets a little. weird. I would say so except I wrote. this up as just a standard everyday. missing person case. >> Mhm. >> These weren't my beliefs. That's these. were the beliefs of. >> right the girlfriend and the mom. And I. have to say that the FBI going to that. house is completely outside the realm of. anything normal.

>> Yeah, that's very bizarre. And also. taking the legal pad with the Arabic. writing on it and the books. >> Correct. >> It's very weird. But I mean, who knows. what that's all about. That seems to. have something to do with the. government. Whereas some of these things. seem to have something to do with either. extraterrestrials or interdimensional. things or. >> correct. A lot of weirdness in this world. David, >> I think our world is much more complex. than we think. >> Yeah, I would agree with you. Just like humanity, everyone's there's a.

lot of complex people for sure. Well, certainly the people that have access to. this information like the stuff that Dan. Farah was talking about like imagine the. mind of a person. Let's assume that. there are really extraterrestrial bodies. somewhere and let's assume that there. are recovered crafts and that these. people like Bob Lazaro really have been. back engineering. You imagine being one. of those people, one of the select group.

of people, a small amount, that have. information that's completely different. from what the rest of the world has. about the reality in which we exist in. that we share this reality with things. that have technology that is beyond our. comprehension. they can do things that. we can't even imagine and that these. people all know it's real and that. they're holding on to this information. They don't think we can handle it.

I I mean the radio shows I've been on. and the people I've talked to have said. the same thing about me and missing. people. It's been a revelation that this. many people are missing in our woods. that are unaccounted for and our. government won't acknowledge it. acknowledging it by releasing a list, releasing the documents. Why can't we. see them? >> But you could attribute that to sheer. incompetence. Like the people that are. running the parks and working for like,

you know, you get bad investigators in. all sorts of I mean, you're a cop. You. you know about all that. What's going on. with this. >> from two years ago? Uh Gil's mother. thinks he might have disappeared to be a. spy for the US government and is still. alive [laughter] and their authorities. say that's possible. >> What? >> He had a long history. I think he said. he he was an interrogator and knew six. different languages. He worked for the. UN. Um it said when he went missing he had. survival skills from his military.

training. He was a paratrooper. >> Huh. >> And he just he had a camera on him was. apparently all he had. So they could. have staged his disappearance so that. they could position him somewhere else. People would think he's dead. You give. him a totally new identity and now he's. working undercover somewhere. >> Yeah. >> Well, I would imagine that's possible. I. would imagine like if you wanted someone. to work for you and you say, you know, this person's going to work undercover, some top secret mission. Okay, but. you've got to disappear. You got to.

disappear from regular life so that we. can give you this new identity. We can't. just have, you know, your friends. looking for you. We We have to move you. to some of the new part of the world. So. Joe, if you were me and you were sitting. across from his mom, that's really something vile, I think, to do to your parent. >> Oh, for sure. >> Horrific. >> She was She was a broken human. >> Yeah. No, that's terrible. >> And and I asked her, I said, "There's a. good chance Gilbert's somewhere in the.

world watching this. What do you want to. say to him?". She said, "Gilbert, just please come. home." She was like an 88-year-old woman. then. >> Oh, boy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, >> that's brutal. And. >> Well, that's a very different thing. we're talking about. That's not a fun. thing. >> No, >> the fun thing's the alien stuff. >> I'm sorry. >> That's the fun [laughter] stuff. >> Sorry, >> I got off track there. >> No, but I mean, look, I get it because. you're dealing with like a wide swath, like a bunch of different kinds of. encounters and different things, you.

know? Um the those Yeah, that's dark. >> So, do you know much about Mount. Reineer? >> Not much. No. >> So, do you know that the the original. UFO. period of time started with a UFO. sighting, >> Kenneth Arnold? >> Right. >> Yeah. >> So, do you know that when Arnold Do you. know what Arnold was doing when he was. flying around? >> No. So, six months prior to that, three. transports, Marine transports were.

flying from El Toro Marine Base into. Seattle. Boom. One, one after the other. They hit. bad weather. One of those planes came. around and they lost it. Arnold, there was like a huge reward if. he could find it. Arnold was flying by. Rineer looking at the mountain trying to. see if he could find it. And these. things went by. Long story short, months later, they. found the transport had crashed into the.

side of Rineer. First of all, do you know that the. Marines never took one body off of. there? Did they recover the vehicle, the the. the craft? >> No. >> No, >> they didn't recover anything. >> They just left it there. >> They left it there. >> Was it because the extraction is too. difficult? >> That's what they said. >> Isn't that possible? >> I guess so. I mean, if it's not. traversible, they can't get in there. >> But they did get in there. >> They did. >> They did. They said they got in there. They saw bodies, but it was too.

dangerous to remove any and they left. them all on the side of the mountain. >> So, that's the reason that Arnold was. there. A lot of people don't know that. >> Okay. >> And when he saw those things fly by him. at an extraordinary pace, he said, "Hey, that's that's nothing that no planes we. have." And there were multiple ones he. saw go by. >> Right. >> now, since that time, Mount Baker and. Mount Reineer have had dozens of UFO. sightings. And if you look at the.

dispersion of people who have. disappeared on Reineer, it's most of. them aren't way up here on the mountain. They're down here at the bottom. And. when we put that in the movie, they. people couldn't believe how many people. there are missing. How many people? >> There's probably at least 15 that have. never been found and it makes no sense. And are they all hikers or what? Hikers, photographers.

Uh, one kid worked for Alaska Airlines. He went into the woods like every week. cuz he lived near Reineer. And on his. days off, he took uh pictures of the. mountain and panorama shots. And some of. his photos actually made it into the. national park headquarters. They're that. good. He went up to take pictures one. day. He has a tripod, real nice camera. He disappears. They search for him for. 10 days, bringing canines, everything. They can't find anything of him. Now,

this is one of those cases where, let's. say there was bear predation. Yeah, there may be nothing left of him, but the tripod will be there forever. The camera is there forever, his boots, his belt. But they never found anything. There was a medical doctor that. disappeared just recently within the. last couple years hiking in that same. area. A a giant loop backpacking. I think he was 34 years old. Absolute.

genius guy. Came from UC Berkeley. Just. recently moved up to Seattle. Took a new. job. Went went on a backpacking loop. there. He disappeared. Never found. nothing. But there's it's repeatedly. this big search, find nothing, no. tracks, no scent trail, no evidence of. them being there in the same area where. there's dozens of sightings. >> Yes. Boy, if you wanted to get abducted, that's the place to go if you really. want to find out what's going on.

Have you ever [laughter]. you ever thought about Have you ever. seen anything yourself. as far as what? As far as like something. that looks like it's from another. planet. Oh, we we've seen orbs and UFOs. many times. >> Many times. >> Yes. >> Have you taken photos [clears throat] of. them or anything? >> Uh, we have some. Yeah. >> You got good ones? >> Uh, there's a lot of really good orb. photos out there. >> and and so that's not unusual. [clears throat]. I think the.

after what I've seen after I've made. five documentaries now, I've seen 12 and 14 and 15 year olds do. things with special effects that if you. watched it on film, >> right, >> you wouldn't know if it was real or not. >> Well, certainly today, >> yeah, >> today, I mean, all bets are off. You. really can't tell what's real and what's. not real. That's why somebody who sends. me a Bigfoot photo or UFO, I don't even. watch it because you can't tell what's. real anymore, >> right?

>> You'd have to go all the way back for me. to film, actual film, and then I'll look. at it. Well, David, uh, thank you very. much for being here. It's certainly a. very interesting subject. I can't. imagine what your brain is like having. studied this for all these many years. You got a very weird version of the. world that we live in because you you've. been inundated by this stuff for. decades. But I think there's something there. I. don't know what it is. Do you?

I have to wait for that for maybe round. two, huh? >> Okay. Round two. >> Well, thank you very much. I was tell. everybody where they can find your work, where they can watch your documentaries. My two most recent movies, uh, Missing. 411, National Parks Washington State is. on Amazon. Uh, American Sasquatch, Man, Myth, or. Monster is on Amazon. And then you can. watch my three movies for free on Tuby, and that is Missing 411, that's the. number one, Missing411, The Hunted, and.

Missing411: The UFO Connection. And my. website is missing411.com, and it has all my books. >> All right. Thank you very much. [music]. Well, thank you, Joe. My pleasure. All. right. Bye everybody. [music].