Joe Rogan Experience #2479 - Bob Lazar & Luigi Vendittelli

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe. Rogan experience. TRAIN BY DAY, JOE. ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. ALL DAY. WHAT'S UP, GENTLEMEN? HEY, JOE. [music]. Great to see you again, Bob. Same here. Long time. >> Luigi, Joe. Um you are still to this day. the most watched ever podcast we have. ever done that's on YouTube. >> That's That's just unreal. It's unreal. It is unreal cuz it shows you how many.

people are just absolutely fascinated by. the story and what you guys have done in. this new film. is essentially recreate S-4 and using AI. recreate you as a young man and these. experiences that you had and it was. really excellent. Luigi, uh you're the. one who put the film together. You. figured it all out and first of all, what was the technology that you guys. used to recreate everything you guys.

did? >> I just want to say there's there's about. 10% AI in the film, but there's 90%. Blender. And that's actually handmade. CGI. So, everything you see is all. handmade. And even the de-aging of Bob Lazar, we. scanned Bob, we went over to his house, scanned his face, took a process of. de-aging him through that, then creating. a digital model of Bob in different.

ages, and then placing him in the. environment. And then. in some instances at the very end, we. perfected or kind of put a bow on it. with a little touch of AI, but the whole. thing is handmade. So, the craft, the. environment, the Papoose Lake, the the. the facility, the equipment, and the. people were all made. And some of the. people are actually real actors that we. put in there. So, it's not It's It's a. There's One of the guys that is Barry in.

the film is a guy called Luis Martinez. that's been working with me for the past. 10 years and he laughs at it cuz he. says, "I can't believe I'm Barry." You. know, so Does he look anything like. Barry? Actually, he does. He does. That's why we chose him. Yeah, yeah. Where is Barry The actual Barry now? I don't know, you know, I kind of. thought at one point after all this. happened, we would at least hear from. one of those guys. But, uh I never heard from anybody after. you know, after the the initial.

the release of all the information, yeah. It seems like Well, I don't know. If. people are able to keep secrets for this. long, it's got to be very difficult to. just blurt it out. Like, if you know, if. you're holding on to a secret for 20, 30, 40 years, you're. It's like I guess these guys were. lifers, though. Yeah. I mean, they spent. most of their time there. They spent at. least 2 weeks at a time and had 1 week. off. So, they stayed at the base. I. mean, these guys were hardcore.

I had just come in on the project. You. know, so um. I don't know. I don't know what happened. to him. I'd love to know. I suspect that Dennis Mariani, my. supervisor, died. I've seen people track. him down, you know, all the way to point. to speaking to his family and they said, "Yeah, he had some classified job out in. the desert or something." And they. showed me his gravestone and stuff. So, you know, at least. they were able to track him down, but. I've never heard of any leads on Barry. or Renee or anybody like that.

What is it like seeing the recreation of. it in a film? Cuz I mean, it essentially. it was your. direction, for lack of a better word, your description of it, you you telling. them exactly every everything was laid. out. And then once they recreated it, what is that feeling like when you watch. it? Well, the final product is absolutely.

mind-blowing because as I've said to. Luigi, it looks like you guys downloaded. that out of my brain. I mean. you know, you can describe something a. hundred times and until you actually. make a a picture, it doesn't become. clear. But, uh you know, this took years. I. think it was like five and a half years. from when I first met Luigi and he said, "Yeah, I can do this." And um. the quality kept improving to where he. started showing me pictures and I went,

"Jesus, that's That's really it. It's. not really it. It's really it." And uh. I mean, it it blew me away. Later on, he showed me a 3D environment. where I could put goggles on and move. around inside. I mean, that made the. hair stand up on my arms. It was It was. unbelievable. So, um. I don't know if I could really describe. how that made me feel, but it felt like. I was teleported back there. And that's, you know, that's when really.

I developed an admiration for Luigi's. talent. I said, you know, I'm behind. this and uh flew out to Canada a couple. times. I didn't have much to do with the. film other than. I guess a couple times going out there. and going, "No, that's right. That's the. wrong color. Move this here. Do that.". And uh but those guys spent over 3 years. working on it. And um. you know, what they And they never. showed me anything, you know, I'd speak. to Luigi, you know, a couple times a. month and you know, he'd always say,

"You. Oh my god, you won't believe this." I. said, "Yeah, show me.". Yeah, no, it's not It's not done yet. So, I really didn't get it to to see. anything till close to the end, but when. I did, um. really, without trying to sound. dramatic, it really put tears in my eyes. going that it. that's it. That's it. You You did it. Just stop. It's perfect. Why? So, I had. the pleasure of watching the movie with. you and sitting there with you where. there was a bunch of times in the movie.

you're like. Yeah, yeah. >> You could tell. Yeah. It is just like. >> I could feel that place. I I could feel. it watching that movie. It It It just It. really freaks me out because. as I've said before, it's not like what. I saw. It's It's exactly what I saw. Um. It's It's perfect. It's just like Luigi. was at S-4 with a camera. So, um It's. very. >> It was. It's a It's a very unique.

documentary in that regard. And And. watching it with you, seeing you. experience this thing, and then me. trying to imagine what it's like for. you. You're this young scientist who gets. brought in on this thing without much. explanation, and then all of a sudden. you're confronted by this craft. And you. you know, the way it's broken down in. the film and you get to actually see you. viewing this thing and being in the. presence of this thing for the first.

time. It's just I could just only. imagine. what that must have been like for you. And it's so weird to watch you watch it. again and see your wheels spin. You're. like, "What the happened [laughter]. to my life, man? Right. What did they do. to me? What did they. What did they. make me experience? Like, what the hell? Yeah, I. I really can't fill in the blanks there. It's uh. I I want to just say that there was a.

time when Bob got angry at me a lot cuz. I wouldn't show him. And he was like, "Come on, show me." And I said, "It's. not ready yet. I don't want to show you. something." But, at a certain point, we. had to. And Bob started remembering more stuff. Yeah, yeah, that's true. Mhm. It It. really made a big difference when he. when he showed me some things and, you. know, walking down the corridor here and. turn, "Oh, stop. Wait, there's another.

door there." I mean, it was like I was. going back into the facility and uh. really brought I mean, actually seeing. it again, uh really brought some things. back that I that I had completely. forgotten about. So, that. you know. Well, what's really. fascinating is. for people that don't know your story, you came up with the story, you talked. to George Knapp in Was it '89? '88. '88, '89, somewhere in there, yeah. So, late '80s, you essentially told the.

exact same story all these years. And. then. within the last, you know, 9, 10 years, we've started to get all these reports. There was the New York Times story, there was the GoFast video and the FLIR. video, and all these videos that show a. craft that's moving the way you. described this sport model moving. Right. Which kind of freaked a lot of. people out with the way it rotated and.

turned. >> Rotate Yeah, it does the belly roll, faces at the bottom towards where it's. want to go, and then it it takes off and. yeah. It's exactly how you described all. those years ago, which is really. crazy. Well, that's I mean, that's the way it. was. But, it's just It's It's crazy. because you had this story way, way, way. back then and everybody's like, "This. guy's just making things up. This is all. cockamamie bullshit.". And then you see those videos from these.

fighter jets and you're like, "Whoa. Wait a minute. This is It's moving the. exact same way he described. It's doing. what he described in 1989.". Yeah. >> [snorts]. >> Yeah. Um. Time to take a drink. Cheers. >> [laughter]. >> Cheers. Cuz it's so weird. I can't I. mean, I've had so many conversations. with people. And you know, one of the. things that comes up is uh do you think. Bob Lazar's telling the truth? And I say, "Look, I don't know. There's. no way I can know, but he doesn't seem.

like he's lying. I've been around a lot. of liars.". >> Look, nobody can know unless you're. there. You know, I'm the biggest skeptic of. all. Although, if you look at Wikipedia, it says I'm a conspiracy. theorist or something. >> Yeah, conspiracy theorist. I think it. says I'm a far-right podcaster. Yeah, all right. I mean, >> [laughter]. >> yeah, it's crazy. But, dog, I lost my train of thought. now. Well, they that that if if you if like. basically are you a conspiracy theorist? No, you don't even look at this stuff.

>> Well, you've had if you have a lie, you. have one lie. It's amazing cuz you've. told the same one for all these years. >> It's a pretty detailed lie. It's also. not normal. Like, normally when people. lie, they get bored with the same lie. and then they come up with another lie. and then there's some other story. There's some You catch them. Eventually, you catch them. There's some cockamamie. new thing that they come up with and. it's the type of people that are that. deceptive. I mean, it's just it doesn't. make sense. It doesn't fit the standard.

model of someone. >> Well, there are other people involved. with it. I mean, uh you know, this is. where the first time Gene Huff finally. is on film, you know, cuz when I had the. you know, the test flight information, um it was one of the not one of the was. the first person I told about that and. uh you know, we were all able to go out. and and see it and so everybody knew. that I wasn't crazy. Um. it was And then also all the. confirmation that you were being.

with. That you know, when you're in the. gym, they would show up and open up your. lock car doors and open up your trunk. and leave it there so you'd go out there. and see it. They'd go to your house when you weren't. there. Yeah, they were even Right, they. were even following George Knapp and and. uh. I mean, all of us. Anybody that had. anything to do with it at that time. Uh. they were keeping eyes on. It was uh Not. just eyes, but a lot of intimidation. tactics. Just letting you know. letting you know that they could touch. you. Yeah.

To I I've really worked for decades to. push this out of my mind. So, it's. always tough to bring it back, you know, and and talk about it. And it's Yeah, although it might be funny now, it. wasn't funny then at all. Um it was a. really stressful time. And still. is a very stressful thing for me. I know. it's so many years ago, but do you. remember the thought that came in your. mind when you realized that it wasn't. ours?

Do I remember the thought? Do you. remember the experience? Yeah, I. remember I remember the feeling. >> Of recognize cuz initially, you saw the. American flag sticking out. >> saw the American flag when I first went. in it the first time I went in through. the hangar door instead of around the. back, um. you know, I slid my hand across it, saw. the American flag and I thought, "Oh my. god, you know, this explains the UFO. nuts, you know?" Um It's ours. Yeah, this is ours. This is a new top secret.

fighter. We can't with a new propulsion. system and uh. you know, it it explains everything. because I never believed in flying. saucers. I thought people were nuts. Um. But, when they started reviewing. everything with me, they were trying I. was trying to replace somebody or they. were trying to use me to replace. somebody as quick as possible. And um. they had two directives. One was to. Directive one was to duplicate the.

technology with available material at. any cost, which is exact verbatim what. it was, and directive two was to be able. to disable this technology at a distance. at any cost. And. you know, once you start thinking about. that, Wait, don't you guys know how the thing. you built worked? And it's kind of like. they left that out. That this [laughter]. this By the way, this isn't ours. And. Barry is the guy that filled me in.

going, "No, no, no. This is an alien. craft and. we need to figure out how this works. Look at the technology here. I mean, this is decades, light years ahead of. where we are. And uh. I I it it it was a. it was a shock, really, to me. I. remember going home that night and just. laying in bed and reviewing everything. that everybody said that day. And uh.

I really don't remember. how I felt. the following days, but I it was just a. different It was just a different. feeling. Like the world just changed. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was. I don't know. I really can't put it into. words. Well, I couldn't imagine. I. couldn't imagine what that experience is. like. And it's also very strange that. they would bring you in and not. specifically state to you that this is. not ours. They just bring you in and just give you.

a directive. This is your what you were. trying to accomplish. Well, they gave me. the they gave me a bunch of briefings. Everything was moving at a very fast. pace and I don't know why. Um. I think I mentioned in the movie. uh. right prior to I got there, there. there were Russians involved in it. You. know, from what I can ascertain, there. was an exchange of information and then. we discovered something, something of. great importance. And of of course,

kicked the Russians out and just held. onto that information ourselves. And uh. there was kind of a knowledge vacuum. there. There was also an accident and I. was told I was replacing someone. uh. that was injured. I believe he actually. died. Um There's no record of who this. person was or has anybody ever tried to. figure out it out? >> I don't know. I don't have any names. I. just know that Barry told me, you know, I'm replacing somebody that he used to. work with and he was without a lab.

partner for a while. So, when I came in. there, um How long's a while? I don't know, but I mean, that brings up. a good point. First of all, we're dealing with alien. or another civilization technology, whether it, you know, it's from another. dimension, another time, another planet. I mean, who really knows? Um. So, I'll eventually get to answer the. question here, but uh. wouldn't you think this place would be.

more like the lunar receiving lab where. everything is white? You know, so you. can see a speck of dust. There's. everything is sterile. People are being extremely careful with. what they're doing, but you're not. seeing that. This is in now something akin to an. aircraft hangar in the middle of the. desert. There's dust on everything. People are taking everything. nonchalantly. There's a There's a. freaking poster about the thing, you.

know, a there here poster there. Um. Thank you, Luigi, for getting me that. We got to figure out a place for that. We'll put it in here somewhere. It's. awesome. I mean, but but I mean, they. went to the trouble of making a poster. They actually I think right here. That's. a good place. >> That right there. That's a good spot. right there. Um but they uh I mean, they. actually cut one of the amplifiers out. of the craft. So, that my point is. >> This is in the film as well. You could. see. >> Yeah, but my my point is it's so. nonchalant. at this point. When they first had it,

it had to be at that level. And they. became so used to it, so familiar with it. that, you know, to them it just became. like another. you know, fighter aircraft or something. from another country. So, it's uh. It must have been there a long time as. what my point is. Because Look, as soon as you have. something that unique,

you don't let it just sit there in a. hangar and be exposed to the environment. and have security people walking by and. people touching it. I mean, it's in an. isolated, sealed, secure environment and. they were past that. So, I think it had. been there for a decade or decades. A long time. And these guys were. intimately familiar with it, not afraid. of it, you know, and. knew what was going on. So, they. essentially had gotten just completely. acclimated to the fact that this craft.

exists, that it was there, and there had. been relatively little progress as far. as figuring it out and figuring out what. it does and how to recreate it. So, it. just kind of sat there. And so, I think. they were making very little progress. and I think they kept going over the. same road again and again and they. probably had other experts there and. just didn't and I think the reason I got. hired is cuz I was a guy out in left.

field that didn't necessarily follow. what was going on. I mean, the biggest. distractors in the. in in. you know, to me, anyway, in the story, um are. other scientists, other physicists. going, "Well, they would have hired me. because I'm the top guy in the field.". Yeah, you you probably are, but I think. they hired plenty of you guys and you. just kept going down the same road and. didn't do anything. I think they were. looking for somebody that just would. have some radical idea and just to push.

the, you know, the project forward because. everything had stalled when I got there. And it was I think they were just in a. desperate move to make some progress. One of the things you talked about in. the first podcast that I think is really. important is that the only way for. science to really progress is that. these various. scientists have to be able to. communicate and you have to be able to. share ideas and you have to be able to. collaborate but that's not how this was.

run because it was so top secret. everything was compartmentalized. Like the metallurgist weren't talking to. the propulsion people who weren't. talking to if there were biologics. experts like everybody was. >> Super frustrating because I I think I I. don't remember exactly where that. started again it's 40 years ago but I. think it started with uh. with the seats. and uh no it start it started with. actual skin of the craft because. everything looked like it was made from.

the same material. and I wanted some information. um. about you know the skin the. superstructure of the craft and they. said no that's that's restricted what's. you know we we need a reason for you to. I I just want to see. if everything is exactly the same. material and what I call the seats in. the craft I still don't know if they. were the seats but they might be I think. it'd be hilarious if they were actually. something else um.

but I wanted some information on those. and that was restricted information too. there were other groups working on that. so they compartmentalized stuff so much. there was no exchange of information. between any groups I mean you could. submit a written response that your. supervisor in my case Dennis would have. to carry over and they would have to. approve and you know you'd get a two or. three line response from. you know the other group but it's it's. just that's not how science works. science works on the free exchange of.

information and it they they were just. killing themselves with security and it. would it was really frustrating it was. terribly frustrating. So was this a. function of security people people that. are concentrating on talk top secret. that don't truly understand how. collaborative science works? >> that's it right there you can stop right. there they had no idea how that works. >> Because it stands to reason that. whatever that thing was made out of.

probably in some way interacts with the. propulsion system and whatever controls. that are in it that this material has to. be particularly unique. Exactly that's. exactly my point and I suspected the. material was an electric. You know what. an electric is? >> No. Okay you know like a magnet. a permanent magnet is like. you know it's a magnet it's forever it's. a magnet it has a magnetic field an.

electric is a material that has a. permanent static field to it. A static electric field to it and. I strongly suspected that's that the. craft was made out of an electric and I. was not because again that's the. material science guys I was not allowed. to connect that to but. that's so important to connect it to the. propulsion system and how the propulsion.

system uh interacts with the amplifier. of the emitters and I just I. I wasn't allowed you know the. information I needed so it was uh. I don't know it it it was self-defeating. is what it was. >> It seems like they were treating it like. a fighter jet or automobile like in an. automobile you have the outer area the. shell of the car you have the doors the. skins the hood the roof all that stuff.

which is meant but then you have the. propulsion system which is the engine. and the transmission and the tires and. the wheels and the suspension. but they're all not connected they're. connected cuz they're bolted together. but they have different functions I. think the idea the concept at least is. as I'm gathering from you is that this. thing all worked as a cohesive unit. >> Right with no physical connection. between. you know between the subsystems.

And all of it made out of the same. material. At least on the outside at least on the. outside all made of the same material. and the other crafts all had the same. power plant in them. So that brings to mind you know like uh. like a GM plant that makes a car with a. Chevy 350 and makes you know a dozen. different models to it. >> Right. So that makes you think about boy. is there a a factory making these things.

and. you know your brain can just wander off. in directions but I tried to stick with. just the technology. Um. Did you know who the metallurgist were? The people that were. >> saw I saw them you know I know them and. Barry we'd go to the lunch room Barry. would point them out you know And you. weren't allowed to communicate with them. at all? Oh hell no you have a a lab. partner which might in in uh. my case it was Barry and you're you have. you're allowed to talk to your lab.

partner. but you can't talk to any other group. that has to go through a written request. has to go to your um supervisor and. he'll bring it over to them and they'll. bring it back and so on and so forth but. uh. it's it's ridiculous that. that that it slows down any progress you. might be making. Which is why they were probably stalled. out for decades. >> Yeah. Did you ever expressly. communicate to them that you.

you theorized at least that this all. could be connected that there's there's. something about the way the metal works. Oh we all knew that. We all knew that. Because we'd get requests from other. you know from other groups and you could. tell they're desperate just like we are. and and and fighting against the system. >> What kind of requests would you get? Just exactly what we found out you know. what where is the energy being.

transferred here if the reactor fires up. is there a field present around it or is. the field just absorbed into the emitter. and you can touch the. you know reactor itself and just little. things like that you know if uh. and actually that that was an important. thing when the reactor's operating. is it perfectly tuned the emitter to. where it removes all the energy from the. reactor and pushes it out the bottom and.

the answer to that was no I remember. that as a specific request from you know. from one of the groups. the metallurgy group is the one that we. really wanted to hear from. Uh. and some of the I didn't I don't even. know what some of the other groups were. But How many groups were there? I. [snorts and clears throat] I don't know. There were only 22 people there total. including myself. So um. I I would like for you to tell Joe one.

of the things that also interested me. cuz I built the craft is how the. waveguide worked with the ceiling in in. interior and how it blended. if you can explain there was no. telescopic. >> well this is why I we wanted to talk to. the metallurgist people. The uh. the reactor that sits on the bottom of. the craft has a little dome over it. and there's something that looks like a. pipe. that's slight you can lift it up and. take the reactor out put the reactor in.

and lift it down but you know like a. antenna works on an old walkie-talkie it. has different sections. There it is there's from the video. There it is yeah yeah okay. um. you can retract the pipe but there's no. sections and it doesn't get any thicker. It just becomes smaller and if you look. underneath. um where the emitters hang down. um. they turn.

it. and it it it doesn't buckle it's it's a. magical material this is. this is the basis of the craft is really. the material that it's made of it's a. it's amazing the way it works. It just you can push it into a small. volume. and it doesn't change at all it doesn't. it doesn't get bigger physically. it's um. I don't really know how to describe. >> lifting the pipe up and down but it's.

not going anywhere. >> you had a big pipe. and you push it together it has to get. thicker Right. because the material has. to go somewhere this doesn't. Okay it stays in exactly the same. dimensions it just becomes smaller. How? Well. >> couldn't talk to the metallurgist so you. had no idea. >> yeah but those guys knew how. They did. know how. I well Well they know it did. it. They know it they know it did it and.

that's their job so I imagine they have. more information than I did. Um. but that was fascinating. It really was. And the uh. the waveguides that hold the emitters. they come down and the emitters can turn. and bend and the pipes bend and nothing. changes in them. It's. and there's no wires or anything to make. the pipe bend. um.

I'm I'm trying to relate it to something. but I can't think of anything to relate. it to. Well one thing that you said that I I. also thought was fascinating there's no. seams so everything looks like it's 3D. printed. >> Again right it comes down to the. material. Which at the time 3D printers. weren't real, right? They Yeah, at the. time that really confused me. I said, "How did they build this?" It must have. been built. out of wax or something and then melted. Um cuz you can't build anything without.

seams. And then 3D printing came into. existence and you know, you can you. could build stuff from layers up. Um. That made sense. I know, some sort of 3D printer or they. grew it uh. you know, a in some. It of course is not a crystal in. fashion, but um. I I don't know how that was fabricated, but it was fabricated different than. anything that we have. I don't even. think it was 3D printed.

And so you never got any inkling or any. understanding of what the metal was, what what what kind of an alloy, what it. consisted of? All I can say it was cold to the touch. cuz the you know, when I when I touched. it, but um. I can't say it was a if it was a ceramic. or I say it was metal cuz it was cold. Um Cuz it looks like metal. And this is. >> Yeah, it looks like metal. Does that. this is the Designs by Perry um.

version of it. Does that How much does. that look like it? No, that's 100%. That's it. Yeah, that's that's. >> to have the the first ripple is supposed. to be black. >> right. See? Yeah. So, Luigi has gone over this so many. times. Yeah. >> uh. the There's an insulator ring in there. Jimmy, show what it looks like in the. film. If you could show one of the. images. I don't know. I was pulling them off the trailer and I. don't. They might not They've been holding that. back. Yeah, on the trailer there's some shots.

>> Yeah, there's there's a ring around it. and we measured the voltage on the craft. and there was a a high voltage on it. Um. And above that ring, there is not. >> not a good shot. There's probably a. This is the original trailer. It's the. new trailer that would actually [snorts]. Yeah, that one there. And you'll get to see it right. there. Actually, right after this. Well, it's actually before this, I.

believe. You're going to see the craft. And if. you see there's a black Right, there's. like a black line. Mhm. It's the first. ripple that's actually not metal. Yeah, we call that the Yeah, there it. is. That's a good shot. We call We call. that the insulator ring because below. that there's a high voltage present on. the craft all the time and above that, there isn't. Um. I would imagine that.

your life has like two completely. different chapters. It's before this and. after this. Whereas like once you see it, the whole rest of your life is now going. to be very different. And you are you. are in in its presence for how long did. you work there for? I don't know, maybe 6 months or so. So, for 6 months, you're around this thing. And I would imagine that's to occupy. your thoughts 24 hours a day. Well, at the time it did, for sure. It's.

actually three stages to the life. It's. before it, during, and after it. Before it was just my life, during was. when it happened, and then the after. part of my life is almost trying to. dismiss it, you know, to just go on. Yeah, you didn't talk about it for a. long time. I mean, you did the George. Knapp interviews, you talked about it a. little, you made some videos explaining. things and how things worked. >> No, I don't I don't really like public. attention and uh I don't really like.

doing interviews. Um. As [snorts] you probably know. >> [laughter]. >> You know, but um. I know there's people that thrive on. that stuff, but you know, uh. it. I felt privileged to be part of the. project, but it left me with an. insatiable appetite. Oh my god, I want. to know where it's gone. Like even when. I was there in the '80s, they were. talking about moving the project at that.

time. So, um. I really I I'm dying to know, is it. still there? Has it moved on Did they. split it up and move it to other places? Um. Yeah, I remember Barry talking about. moving it to. the South Pacific like in Kwajalein or. something, but they said the expenses. were so great, they couldn't do that, but they wanted to be from everybody. And the they hated the fact that it was.

right alongside the highway in Nevada, you know, by south of Area 51. Uh but that's the best place they had at. the time and the most affordable. And of course now with you know, budgets. being so tight, who knows where it is. Who knows if. budgets are tight for this, though. Yeah, that that's true. That's true. I. mean, they did say at whatever expense, figure this out. Yeah, they were serious. about that. We don't really care what it. was. >> It's like the original Apollo program.

You know, back in the Apollo program, if. they needed parts. and if somebody had something ordered. UPS or through the mail or whatever, they had the authority to stop that. shipment to that other person and take. their stuff if they needed it. And you. know, they had an unlimited budget. I. mean, if you're working like that, you. could do anything. And uh Or at least anything that's. currently possible with today's. technology. There you go. Which therein. lies the problem is that they're dealing. with something that's not possible with.

like you couldn't build it from scratch. with American technology in 1989. No, but that's what they wanted to do. And really thinking about that now, I'm. not sure. I'm not [laughter] exactly sure these. guys should be allowed to do that. This. is really powerful technology and the. world has really changed. I mean, we. have a lot of crazy people doing stuff. now and nonsense.

transmits through the population at the. speed of light. And uh. you know, I don't know. This can be a. very powerful world-conquering. technology. and. Look, for 40 years, I think I've said. this before, for 40 years, all the. people in control of this information. have all agreed to keep it quiet. And. these aren't idiots. These aren't idiots for 40 years. You. have a line of people that all have.

agreed, "No, let's not say anything. No, let's not say anything. No, let's not. say anything." There has to be a reason. why. And if they all agreed to that, maybe I'm the. >> [laughter]. >> No, really. Maybe they're right and. Maybe you would have figured that out if. you kept working for them. Yeah, I don't. know, but I'm increasingly thinking. I'm the one that made the mistake. Maybe. this is supposed to be.

just kept quiet. Yeah, but that doesn't ring true. Cuz cuz I don't think it's ever healthy. if small groups of individuals have. information that would change our. understanding of where we are. >> Yeah, there's that. There's that. >> It's I don't think they. I don't think they deserve it. I don't. think it's right. I don't think it makes. any sense. I think you have an. obligation to. >> But really think about it. What if it's. something that's really dramatic?

Like how so? Like what do you think. would be like? I don't know. May maybe I mean, what if. it's I'm not saying this is what it is, but I mean, what if it's like. you know, like like we raise cows out in. a field and just feed them grass and. they're just going to be food. What if it's something like that? What. if we're just like, you know, a a. population of creatures that are just to. be consumed in some way?

I don't know if we're to be consumed, but I do think we are. >> Not physically consumed like eaten, but. I mean. >> I think we have a task. And. I'm uh more and more convinced as time. goes on that we were engineered. I don't think we came about as a normal. evolutionary process like all the other. animals. >> I agree with that. I I really agree with. that, too. There's a lot of people that. think that. It just doesn't make sense. objectively. I mean, without seeming. like a cook.

or someone who buys into conspiracy. theories, if you just look at all the. other biology on Earth, why is one so. uniquely able to manipulate its. environment, communicate instantaneously. at distance, do. can't really even exist in its. environment in most places that it lives. without clothes and shelter. We're a. weird animal. We're we're very strange. Like we don't. seem to have normally adapted to our. environment with the way we've.

completely controlled our environment. with air conditioning and electricity. and electronics and flight and travel. We're so beyond everything else that. evolved. Whereas every other animal, predator or prey, plant eater or meat. eater, all seems to cohesively exist. inside of its ecosystem. And then you. have us, which is like Yeah, yeah. almost like an invasive species. Like.

invasive species destroy ecosystems like. because they don't belong there. Mhm. Well, that's kind of what we do. Like we. suck all the fish out of the ocean, we. pollute the rivers with our technology, we, you know, mess up underground water. systems with fracking and drill we we're. like an invasive species in a lot of. ways. Yeah. Yeah. We're really weird. >> can't argue with that at all. Yeah, this Tim Burchett thing. Um so Tim. Burchett has recently been talking about.

this and the he can't talk about it. because it's classified, but he said. you'd be up at night with the things. that I've seen. if the things that I've seen have. released. Yeah. He said we just needed to close disclose. it all. I'm sick of it. Uh I well I was briefed and I will tell. you this. I was briefed last week on an. issue or excuse me 2 weeks ago and it. would have set the earth on this country. would have become unglued. I think if. they would have heard all that I heard.

Well, this is what I was talking about. If you know, it's not like there's a bunch of space. brothers coming down going, "Oh, look. what we discovered, you know, here I. have some information and you know, uh. what if it's not that? What if all the. information is bad?". But what would be bad? Like have you. ever thought about this? Tried to like. play it out to its natural conclusion? Like what do you think the scenarios. could be that's bad? I don't know. Everything that we're. we uh.

Look, we view ourselves at the top of. the food chain. What if we're not anywhere near there? I. don't think we are. Okay, what if we're. just consumables? Well, I don't know if like chimpanzees. are consumables, right? They're not at. the top of the food chain either, right? But No, but there's. I I would consider them substantially. lower than we are. Like my. my good friend that I John Lear who had. a bunch of crazy thoughts. I mean he.

used to come over and tell us that uh. you know, on the moon there was a soul. sucker. And when you. >> [laughter]. >> He did. He said this. You better give me. that bottle. I want to drink before you explain this. one. Um. >> Oh boy. A soul sucker. Yeah. >> John Lear was a eccentric individual. I'm kind of sad I never met him. Man, he he would. >> supporting evidence? He was a What?

Terence McKenna talking about the moon. being a soul catcher. Yeah, yeah. No, and he'd give me pictures of these giant. antennas on the moon and. >> [clears throat]. >> um in fact, I'll tell you a story. He um. uh you know, he was an accomplished. pilot, had many world records and and. things of that, you know, um. part of the Lear family. that. his father invented autopilot, the. eight-track tape, all kinds of stuff. And uh.

but he John Lear was a loose cannon. At the time. uh. he'd fly from Las Vegas and uh. you know, shuttle L-1011s which are. giant planes back and forth and he'd say. uh. you know, be kind of lonely. He goes, "Hey, you want to go to Minneapolis. tonight?" He'd call me like at 9:00 at. night and say, "Well, no, not really. Come on. Come on, fly with me." He'd. say, "Just put on a suit and you know,

come to so-and-so." And I'd go to. McCarran Airport and you know, go there. And uh yeah, I'm going to tell everybody. you're. you know, an inspector from the FAA and. I'm like, "Okay, great." You know, and I'd. get on the plane and he'd say, you know, "Just act like you're you're going to. kick everyone's ass." So I'd. >> [laughter]. >> go on there and I'd sit in the they pull. down a jump seat behind the plane and. I'd just sit there looking at everybody. and. God, all this stuff is so illegal. And.

um. you know, get on there and and fly and. you know, John would take and the. L-1011 was a. pretty advanced plane at the time. This. was in the '80s. And you know, John would be smoking his. pipe, he'd take off, he'd put his feet. up and smoke his pipe and he'd fall. asleep. And I'd just be, you know, hanging out there and you know, before. the plane would land, he'd just, you. know, wake up and you know, be smoking. his pipe and the you know, plane would.

land itself. At the time my wife was. taking flying lessons and um. he said, "Yeah, yeah, you know, bring. her up here and um. I think they had an engineer also on. another panel. I don't I don't quite. remember, but I was there with my wife, there were people on board and he he'd. say "Hey, come on here and take the. wheel." And he'd get the captain of the. plane with. you know, I think my wife was in her 20s.

at the time and just sit her down and. say, "Yeah, hold on to it and you know, just keep correcting." And he'd just let. her fly the plane which is insane. And. you know, the co-pilot would just look. over and I remember looking over at I. think the engineer that looked at the. gauges and he just put his head down. >> [laughter]. >> and pretended like nothing was. happening. And um. that was just one time. Another time he. was fly uh.

ferrying an L-1011. going by Roswell. At the time I was. living in New Mexico. and they called him and told him he. wasn't getting paid. That the company was, you know, defaulted or something like that. And. he was coming up to New Mexico and. landed at the Roswell just took the. plane and landed at the Roswell Airport. this the whole 1011 got off walked out.

walked up to a bus station, gave me a. call on the the payphone and said, "Hey. Bob, I'm coming over.". Okay, you know, you're in New Mexico. Yeah. And he drove up. taxi would drop him off at the house, he'd walk he [laughter] he walked in he. went, "Boy, I'm tired." And he just laid. down on the couch, you know, and go to. sleep and I said, "What are you doing here? What's going. on?" "Oh, I just dropped the plane off. They're not paying me and you know, that. that's it." But I mean John Lear was. such like a loose cannon.

Um. he was he was a great friend to have, but uh he had no filter. If he had a retired general come up and. give him all kinds of information. or if he had a psychic come up from, you. know, the neighborhood and give him all. kinds of information, he'd put him in. the same category. Um. >> You know, and uh so. he really did have useful information.

that was difficult to get, but it was. mixed up with nonsense. Right. And you. and sometimes he would just really lean. into that nonsense. Like he was. convinced that the sun wasn't hot and. there were people living inside and I. used to die laughing. I'm like, "You are. [laughter]. insane.". I said, "You you can't prove it's hot.". "Yes, I can." You know, just go outside. >> [laughter]. >> you know, on a hot day, you know, and. and you know, and John said, "That's not.

the sun. That's just the the sun's. atmosphere that's on fire." And I said, "You're just crazy." But we got along. and he knew that I I thought he was. crazy, but the thing is a lot of people. did come to him. and give him good information. Um. Anyway, I don't remember where I was. going with this. >> the thing about some people. Some people. will tell you nonsense and then they'll. tell you true things. And it's difficult.

to accept that true things also come. from people that say nonsense. Like just. because they've said something that's. nonsense doesn't mean necessarily that. this thing they're saying is not true. This other thing. And you've got to be. able to discern. You've got like I talk to a lot of. people that say a lot of kooky things. that don't make any sense, but then. they'll say something that rings true. And it's it's difficult because you have. to have some sort of an understanding of. the human psyche and of those kind of.

people because there are kind of people. that have very loose nets. You're counting on their filter working. like yours. >> it doesn't. >> And it No, it doesn't. Some people. >> stuff gets in there and you go, "Hold. on. What did you just say? Tell me that again. How does that one. work?" Yeah, you can't really discount. people because somebody comes up with. some absolute nonsense. It just means. their filter is defective. But Which is also the reason why they're. willing to entertain things that are. outside of the normal spectrum. Right.

So like they might have actual real. useful information but it's wrapped up. in there with Bigfoot. Exactly. Yeah, exactly. But so the soul. catcher thing. Oh, that yeah, that's. where I was going. The soul catcher. So. um. I remember him sitting and I think he. was telling my wife Joy this story. because I walked in on it. He said, "Yeah, there are these giant antennas. and when you die. >> [laughter]. >> your soul goes up and I think he said.

the grays, you know, this alien race set. up this soul catcher and that's what. this whole thing is about. And as you. die. it sucks your soul in and they use it in. some way. And um it's not where your. soul is supposed to go. They just like. set some sort of intercept. >> say where your soul was supposed to go? No. No. >> No, he was just more really into the. soul catcher. >> Well, that was one of the weirder things. about some of the documents that you had.

at least been alerted to when you're on. the base. And one of them being that. humans are containers. Yeah. All right. Yeah. Yeah, and. >> Which the likely conclusion is. containers of souls. If a soul is a real. thing, whatever that That's what you. would think. Right. I mean, that's what. I thought. Yeah. I mean, It's just a. guess. >> prefer to believe that that's that's not. true. Mhm. Um. but maybe it is. I just they I don't.

know. As Barry said, you know, they mix. absolute nonsense in there. So, if they get if you. and it's unique to each person. So, if. you give out any information and they. go, "Oh, we heard some stuff about soul. catchers. Oh, we know that came from. Lazar." You know, so, um. that's just a way where they can direct. where it where it came to. But Then the problem is like decades and. decades, generations and generations of. people working there. How many people. know what the real truth is? And how.

many people know. >> know. I mean, there must be a Yeah, there must be a group of people that. really have the pure information of. what's going on. I would assume, but not. necessarily. I would think over There has to be there. has to be a group of people that know. what's going on. And um Who are those. people? Mhm. You know, and to me, like I. I was telling Luigi, I have a bunch of. questions for me. You know? Right. >> Um Like what would be your questions for. you if you met you? Yeah. Now, questions.

for me are people that ask me over. decades the same same questions. You. know, why is it the Navy? The Navy paid. me. I always said the Navy everything. has been the Navy instead of the Air. Force because, you know, back in the. '60s and '70s, you know, there's Project. Blue Book in the Air Force and all that, but um. everything associated with this was the. Navy. So, and in these days, you hear some of.

these. new types of crafts that are. transmedium. Yeah, you you hear the word. transmedium and in it David Fravor, Commander David Fravor, you know, with. the Tic Tac and you know, things are. under the water. And you know, supposedly the the craft. that. the sport model was an archaeological. recovery, and that itself was. underwater. So, what is.

what is the deal with the water? I mean, it's it's. it's by far the biggest medium of the. planet. I mean, if you want to hide. people down there, almost an entire. civilization down there, you could do it. in the ocean as long as you do it deep. enough and away from people. So, yeah, number one is what's the deal. with the ocean? That's probably the the. number one question. Because there's a. ton of sightings.

where people see things come out of the. water. and go into the water. >> Yeah, there has to be a reason for that. Well, it just in terms of if they have. the ability to travel through space, if. they if whatever that thing is really. does create some sort of a gravity. bubble or some sort of a space-time. bubble. Yeah, but maybe it's not space. Maybe it's not space. Maybe maybe it's. time. Maybe it's another dimension. There's. there's really no limit. If you can.

start manipulating. physics in that way, um. you can bend time, you can. open doorways into other dimensions. So, maybe it has nothing to do with going I. Look, we all want it to be like Star. Trek. Right. >> You know, because Star Trek is really. understandable. Right. >> You go out there, you fly to another. planet. You meet the people there, you. go to another one. Well, these guys are.

happy, those guys aren't, you know, and. it all makes perfect sense. I don't really think it's like that. Look, you know, if you look in history, especially, you know, in United States. history, anytime a superior. race or intelligence meets with an. inferior one, it's never good for the. inferior guys. Never. We never come over and go, "Oh, we just. want to teach you guys everything that.

we know." Right. No, no. It's like, "We're going to rape all your women, take all your stuff, and then just kill. you." Use your resources. >> Yeah, right. And just consume everything. you want. That's just always the way it. goes. Now, maybe that's just what humans. do, but I would be concerned that's what. all life does. Well, we are territorial primates. Mhm. And. that makes sense that that's what we do. The thing that always fascinates me. about particularly the grays, they seem.

to be genderless, and they seem to have no muscle at all. They and they seem to have enormous. heads, and the. stories at least, the anecdotal accounts. of people having communication with. these creatures is that they communicate. in some way telepathically. Yeah. If you transcend all of our weird. biological needs, like all the things. that are attached to being a human. being, ego, lust, greed, desire to.

conquer, desire to control resources, all those things are territorial primate. instincts. And one of the conversations I had. yesterday with my friend Theo, we were. talking about like what's happening to. people's bodies, is that people are slowly. we're consuming microplastics and. phthalates and all these things that are. reducing our reproductive system, our. testosterone's dropping. Right, right. All this stuff like leads you to say,

"Well, where does this go ultimately?". Like what what how many more people are. autistic now than were before? It's one. out of 12 boys in California now. Used. to be one out of 10,000 just a few. decades ago. Like we're moving into this. very weird direction without us. recognizing it. >> me stop you there. It's one out of how. many? One out of 12 boys in California. are diagnosed autistic now. But do you think that might be the way. they're diagnosed? No.

No, I think it's exposure. I think it's. exposed to chemicals, vaccines, environmental toxins. You think that do, yeah? I think that. It's not just me. There's tons of studies and and a lot of. buried studies, too. >> Okay. I mean, if that's accurate, that's. frightening. Yeah. Well, it is it's it. can't be just diagnosed because I mean, I know so many people that have. nonverbal autistic kids, where I didn't. know anybody that had nonverbal autistic. kids when I was younger. Well, you know, I mean, back in the '60s and.

'70s, there was no there were no kids. with ADHD. >> Mhm. Kids that were like that were just. Mhm. You know? I think that's. still the the case. I don't think ADHD. is a real diagnosis. I think it's a real. excuse to give people medication. I. think ADHD is essentially a superpower. What ADHD is allows you to concentrate. on things that you really enjoy, but you. cannot concentrate on things you don't. enjoy. Okay. I think I have it. You know, and I think I'm very fortunate.

that I'm not diagnosed and medicated or. wasn't or was born in the right time. when they weren't doing that as much. >> No, I actually I'll stop you there and. say I I agree that that's a superpower, too. Because it's a very unusual. I can. Yeah, yeah. If I find a thing that I. like, I can lock in and concentrate on. it for 12, 14 hours with no sleep, no. food. All I need is like water or. coffee, and and I'm locked in. All. right. I locked in for 4 and 1/2 years. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know. I don't I. don't think I think what ADHD is you're.

taking kids, you're putting them in a. completely unnatural environment, you're. making them sit down. They don't want to. sit down. They're very active and. energetic. You're making them study. things by very unenthusiastic teachers. They don't want to pay attention. They're off in class because. they're completely bored. And then. you're saying that kid's got a problem. We have to diagnose them. And then what. do you give them? You give them. Adderall. And all of a sudden the kid's. locked in cuz they're on speed. >> Yeah. And I just think. >> if you focus in and let them do what. they're interested in. >> kid a video game. Watch him play it for.

10 hours with no food. Cuz. that's what happens. Cuz that's. something they're actually engaged with. It's not that they can't be focused on. anything. They just don't focus on. things they enjoy. And we want to turn. people into nice little factory workers. >> Right. And the only way to do that is. you got to get a kid to comply. You got. to get a kid to pay attention and follow. the rules. >> the same channel. It's really great. I. don't believe that ADHD is a real thing. I just think there's some people that. are wired differently, and they should. pursue different things in life. Right. The difference between that and autism.

is very different. And autism is. especially when it happens like almost. directly after multiple vaccinations. There's a lot of them they point to, particularly the MMR vaccine. There's a. there's there's quite a few. When you. look at the schedule of vaccines and how. it ramped up and it completely. correlates with the ramping up of the. diagnoses of autism. But but without casting aspersions or. getting into some anti-vaccine. conversation, Wait, you just did. I. know, I did. But what I'm saying is but.

ultimately the human race is moving into. a very weird place. So, I had a. conversation with um. Shanna Swan, Dr. Shanna Swan, who. is uh she studies environmental. endocrine disruptors. So, various. toxins, phthalates, microplastics, and. plasticizers that are completely. disruptive to people's endocrine system, reproductive system. And from the. introduction of these petrochemical. products in the 1950s and '60s, you see.

a direct correlation between the dip in. testosterone rates in amongst men, the. uh increase of miscarriages and. infertility, and then on top of that, the actual shrinking of their taint. So, one of the ways they find out the. difference between mammals um some. mammals in particular, when you see a a. a a child a baby mammal, the difference. between a male and a female is easily.

recognized by the size of the gap. between their anal their anal hole and. where their genitals are. >> But, that could just be correlation. You know, it's like No, no, no. No, no, no. No, I'll explain why it's not. Because when they've done studies where. they've used phthalates, particularly. phthalates, and they've introduced them. specifically purposely into certain. mammals and rodents, their taint. shrinks. Hm. And their taint shrinks and. their penises their penis size shrinks. And there's studies on rivers, they have.

smaller penises. And she she talked. about all this. And all this these are. endocrine disruptors. that are in the environment that are. doing something that reduces fertility. And it changes the way the human biology. functions. And it makes men more. feminine and it makes women less. fertile. Okay. Well, ultimately we look. at the Grays, what do they look like? Yeah. They look like they have no. genitals. They look like they have they. have no sex. They have like That might.

be where biology has to go to transcend. away from our territorial primate. biology. Our territorial primate biology that is. insistent on war and violence and Right. And we think this is the place to stay. Exactly. >> And it may not be. >> It may not be. It it it may be. completely non-beneficial to all life. >> Right. Right. >> That we have to transcend that. And. well, we are transcending it whether we. like it or not. And what I was saying is.

that I don't know if it's a bug. I think. it might be a feature of evolution. That. our insistence on using plastics and. technology and all of these different. environmental. toxins that we use to produce energy and. all the goods and services that we need. also are disrupting our endocrine system. and changing us from being these hulking. hair-covered cave men to being these.

very small, slight autistic men that can. code 24 hours a day without. sleep. Right. It seems like if you extrapolate and you. naturally take that further, well, what. do you get? You get really skinny things. with no muscles and giant heads. My my. take also and I and I do agree with that. is what I find out what I find sometimes. really. uh concerning is how fast that's moving. So, it's not just a question of like is.

this actually. it it this is probably a thing, but it's. moving so incredibly fast. If I look at. my father's generation or my. grandfather's generation and my. generation, I mean, it's it's similar, but now it's. moving so fast. I I I do agree with. you're saying and I'm thinking if it's. moving so fast, there could be a not a natural component. to it, but there's an intentional. component.

>> Right. If you wanted to do something to. a race to change it. Like think about. what we did with wolves. Right. All dogs are wolves. Yeah. Right. I have two dogs that are the furthest. thing from wolves you could. possibly imagine. >> Is that Marshmallow? Marshall. Yeah, >> [laughter]. >> you can call him he might be a. Marshmallow. He might as well be a. Marshmallow. Marshall who's a Golden. Retriever is the sweetest dog of all. time. Then I have another dog named. Charlie who's a King Charles Cavalier. Spaniel who's even further from a wolf. than Marshall. He's just a cute little.

fuzzy little sweetheart. They have no. killer instincts whatsoever. That used to be a wolf. Right, well, what happened? We softened them to the. point where they're something compatible. with our modern life with households and. families and babies and you can we made. them safe. And that's happening to. people. It's happening to people whether we like. it or not. We could attribute it to all. these different factors. Oh, it's a. problem. We have to remove these things. from the environment. This is what's. going on. Maybe or maybe you just look.

at the overall picture, there seems to. be an insatiable desire for innovation. and technology that human beings have. If you looked at us from afar, if you. weren't part of the human race and. you're just studying us, you're like, what does this species do? Well, makes. better things. Makes better things all. the time. Constantly. You know, I look I have a. iPhone 16 here. It's not as good as the. iPhone 17. iPhone 17's better. Why don't. you get an iPhone 17? You know, it just. like keeps going. It never stops. It. never ends. The TVs get bigger. They get.

stronger. Your cars get faster. Your. computer does more cores. Does. processing, video editing so much. quicker. Everything moves faster and. better. We keep making better things. We. never stop and say, you know what? Society right now, we have a lot of. problems. The problems that we don't. have are technology. Our technology. seems completely suitable to this world. that we're living in right now. Let's. just. new things and concentrate on cleaning. the rivers and concentrate on stopping. crime and concentrate on educating.

people. Concentrate on counseling for. troubled young people. No. No, we just. plow forward ahead with the one thing. that we absolutely guarantee to do. We. make better things. We make better. weapons, better cars, faster planes. Everything we do, we make things better. And I'll and I'll sorry, I have to add. we do that and we also do it in a way. where it's economically beneficial to. the ones that are making it because we. make things break now. Think about it. We make better things,

but we make them so that you have to buy. the better thing after. Right. Engineered obsolescence. Yeah. That's. also important. >> Yeah, it is because then it also human. beings have this very bizarre desire for. materialism. Like what why would a thing. with a finite lifespan want to. accumulate objects? Like I know people. that are in their 80s that collect. things. Like what are you doing. with that stuff? You're going to die. You have maybe like 10 summers left on. on Earth. And here you are collecting.

stamps or cars or. >> yeah. No, no. I've gotten to that. It's. weird. Yeah, I mean, at some point you. >> [cough and clears throat]. >> you have to bypass the accumulating. stuff Right. >> part of life. But, materialism ensures a. constant fueling of innovation. Because this is one of the things that. gets people excited about collecting new. stuff is that you're going to make a. better version. Like I don't care how good your Mercedes.

is. It's not a 2026 Mercedes. Right. Yeah, exactly. It has new features. It. has a new thing. And so, it's like all. built into the human psychology and also. to this thing that I said like I said, if you were somewhere from somewhere. else and studying this species, what. does it do? It it makes better things. What do sharks do? They eat things. They. just swim around. They can't even stop. swimming. They eat things. What do. people do? They they really just make. better things. They go to war. Why do. they go to war really? They go to war so.

they can control resources so they have. more money so they can make more things. and better things. And also the amount. of innovation that is in warfare, in war. weapons, in war fighting. Yeah, that. yeah, that's actually critical to keep. the system going. Yeah. Well, ultimately. all that does it all of it releases more. endocrine disruptors, more contact with. all these different chemicals and. toxins, feminizes men, ruins women's. reproductive systems to the point where. ultimately we say, oh, for the survival.

of the race, we're going to have to. figure out how to reproduce. non-biologically. >> Hm. When I first got involved in. yeah, it's. It's something to ponder, right? It's. something to ponder because we're so. wrapped up in who we are. We're so. wrapped up and look, I love being a. person. I love living in Texas. I love. driving an American car. I love all. those things. But, what does that mean? Like what is that what is that? You. know, these are just weird identity. points that you connect with whatever.

this species is. Well, but if you just. could just have a. above view, and you look down and go, what are we. doing? Yeah, that's a that's a good question. That's a good question. Yeah, like how far are we going and how. fast are we going there? We're going. pretty fast. And now with AI, I. think we're going way faster than we. even understand. Because with Claude, I mean, they they. think that the Claude AI the the.

engineers, they we think it's sentient. already. It just doesn't have a physical. body to move around. >> is going to kill us. Everybody agrees. with that. [laughter]. There's no question. >> think it's going to kill us. You know. what I think it's going to do? I think. it's going to prevent us from breeding. I think it's going to let us die off. No, it's not going to kill us, Joe. >> we're going to willingly go with it. because we're going to get like mates. like Ex Machina. We're going to just. something to take care of us. >> they come out. with a female robot. >> Uh-huh. Yeah. That's sexually attractive.

or whatever. Yeah, game over. >> over. There's there's just going to be. no more babies and we're just going to. die out. >> Yeah. So, >> Or integrate. And I think it's much more. likely that we integrate. And that's. where you get the Grays. I think that. what the Grays are is a combination of. technology and biology. And if you just. if you just go from. >> chimp. to caveman. to gray, you go, oh, I see where going. Chimp, chimp, caveman, human. Modern.

human, gelatinous, soft, slow-moving, weak modern human, grays. Like I have I. have always. leaned into what Barry told me cuz it's. the only information I had that. the craft came from Zeta Reticuli, which. is a star system I. 30 some odd light-years away. And um, you know, again, it was just like a Star. Trek thing. They came over here. for whatever reason.

But that information may not be true. Right, that might information. information might be one of those things. they put out that's nonsense. >> if it's if it has to do with time, I. think uh. from what George has told me, Jacques. Vallée and some, you know, other really. credible researchers have have said that. uh. these are people either from another. dimension or another time or maybe. they're us from the future. Right. You. know, just coming back to. interact with us in some way.

Um. >> Make sure we don't everything up. irreparably. Yeah, but it it doesn't. seem like they're doing a good job. Well, maybe things up somewhat. is also part of the plan. Maybe that actually has to take place. and disrupt. >> Look at the Look at the way things are. going right now. >> Right. >> Holy cow. >> Exactly. Things are off. totally off the rails. >> Mhm. But maybe that's part of the plan. Maybe. part of it is like it has to get so far. sideways that we realize how up.

everything is that we start making. meaningful changes and implement AI as. government. That's a dangerous thing. >> Exactly, but is it as dangerous as Iran. getting nukes? I don't know. Is it as. dangerous as. a global Islamic caliphate? No, it's not. Iran. Iran's not getting nukes. I mean. >> Okay, but what if. >> They have Iran they. Never mind. >> [laughter]. >> I don't want to get into political. stuff. No, but you could. You could. Like if you gave Iran the technology to.

get nukes, they would take it. >> has any any physicist has the technology. to get nukes. Right. I mean, the. difficulty is actually making the. material. So, I mean, if I was Iran, I. would enrich to 80 or 90% because that's. where you can make a weapon. and and stop there. >> Right, it's not like they would be the. only people with the weapon. Pakistan, India, North Korea. >> doesn't make you have a weapon. It just. gives you a shortcut to it.

And making a weapon from there and being. able to deliver a weapon, you know, to 4,000 mi away, good luck. with that. That's a. big deal. So, um Right, but they're in. communication with China who has that. They're in communication with China. >> to they don't need to enrich uranium or. do anything. They just get Can you give. me a a missile? Um Right, but wouldn't. they rather make their own? No. But. that's but it's not even the point. >> Rather make their own. Why Why would you. do that? Would you rather make your own.

car or just somebody give it to you? No, you Why Why would Why would you do. that? You got a buddy that'll just give. you one. Cuz you'd want to be. self-sufficient. You'd want to have your. own production where you don't have to. rely on someone. No, you can always do. that. You can always do that. I don't I. don't think they're ever they were ever. going They're going to absolutely make a. weapon now. Right. because we're, you know, kicking. their ass. I. As everyone has learned, I guess you. have to have nuclear weapons now to, you.

know, but. the it this is a really bad situation. Oh, it's a horrible situation. But my. point is. why is this situation taking place? The. situation taking place is because human. beings suck. Right? We suck in how we interact with. each other. It's we suck we suck because. we're territorial primates with weapons. of mass destruction. >> just all get along? Well, what is the.

way to stop that from ever happening? Well, one, you will let a catastrophe. unfold and then you offer a solution to. make sure these catastrophes never. unfold again. Well, what's the best solution? Well, we. have something far smarter than people. that will take over control of resources. and government. AI. AI. Yeah. This is This is Colossus. You ever seen the movie Colossus? >> I got to watch it. >> Well that That's a merit against you. >> [laughter]. >> The movie Colossus was a 1960s or 70s.

movie and. it it's about um. you know, the scientist makes. deep inside this mountain a computer to. take over the defense of the United. States. And. you know, they. build this gigantic computer inside. Cheyenne Mountain or something similar. to it and you know, they flip the switch. and they went, "Okay, we're we're. protected. We're we're in good shape.".

And um. shortly after time goes on, you know, they realize, "Wow, the computer is. really performing better than we. expected." And as it turns out, Russia had done the same thing. And the computers want to communicate. together. And um. you know, they start communicating and. the United States goes, "Well, they. might be giving our our secrets away, so. we better.

you know, cut the communication line.". And the computers freak out and they go, "Well, I guess we'll just launch nuclear. bombs, you know, at everybody." And they. launches weapons and, you know, essentially holds everybody hostage, but. um. it's kind of like a trap. It's kind of. like a trap. If we go that way, it it. could trap us. >> a trap. >> Well, you know, in simulated war games, AIs use nuclear weapons. >> 98% of the time. Yeah. I [laughter].

mean, yeah, because. why wouldn't they? Because I mean, look, the goal is to win. Right. And we're. going to present you with the scenario. and they go, "Okay, nuke 'em.". And you know, and why wouldn't you pick. that? We You going to start with. slapping them in the face? >> Well, why is it better to just bomb them. over and over and over again until you. achieve the same amount of damage? >> in the face. Nuke 'em, it's over with. We can move on from there. >> Right. So Yeah, that's. >> Well, you think about what happened in. Gaza. Like you look at the leveling of.

all those buildings, the mass. destruction. It's terrible. It looks. like a nuke. Yeah. It looks like one. nuke instead of thousands of missiles. and bombs. It's one nuke. >> but it's not. >> Right. In terms of the amount of damage. it could do instantaneously. >> Because I mean, because we can detect a. nuke. Was there ever any conversation. that you were privy to where they. discussed, because one of the things. that does come up over and over again in. UFO discussions is these crafts that. show up at these military bases and shut.

down all the weapon systems? >> No, I I actually know nothing about. that. Um. Most of the UFO stuff or UFO lore that. I've heard, I I don't know anything. about. I I've just looked at it That's. so fascinating cuz you're the most. prominent figure in all of UFO lore. >> telling him yesterday. Yeah, but. [laughter] I I. I I really I really only like like to. talk about what I know about. >> Right, And I've heard I mean, I've heard. other stories, but I've never heard them. officially. I don't know if they're.

really. real. Um Well, it's one of the things. that makes you most credible. Cuz you're not a UFO guy. >> but I mean No, yes, it does with me. Because when people are like way too. into it, they want to believe too much. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But no, I I I don't. know anything. >> you know who these people are? Yeah, yeah, Betty and Barney Hill. >> Okay. Well, so you know a little Yeah, they they were the first abductees. I. mean, to me, they're. I don't I don't know who first. introduced those to me and I looked them.

up. And. you know, I people say, "Do you believe. them?" And I'm kind of inclined to. believe them because look, in the 1960s, right, where they're from, the last. thing you want to do is be recognized. as a mixed-race couple. Right? I mean Right, and go public with. your Yeah, I mean, holy cow. They would. hate you. Yeah. A black person and a.

white person that were, you know, in any. kind of relationship, but um. And they have this crazy story. Yeah. And you hear their abduction story. >> on top of that, I have a connection to. that because Barry said they're from the. Zeta Reticuli star system and I believe. it's Betty Betty Hill drew a map of the. Zeta Reticuli star system and said this. is part of their roots. Whoa.

Did you know that? You didn't know that? No, I don't remember that. I don't. remember I mean, I remember it from what. you said from your story. >> you look up in Betty and Barney Hill, she said. um I think. I don't know. I mean, I can never get. this stuff right. They show her a map. and they say, "Well, this is a map." She. wanted to know why they were here, what's going on. They showed her a map, am I right? >> her a map. And. they said, "Do you Do you understand. this?" And she said, "No." And they.

said, "Well, why should we tell you any. more?" And. well, I don't know. Maybe you could fill. in the blank. It's something like they. they showed her this star map, you know, and she obviously. Look at that. Under hypnosis, Betty Hill. describes a map she was shown by the. leader aboard the ship. Later, she. sketched it. She said she was told that. the heavy lines marked regular trade. routes. and And the broken lines recorded. various space expeditions. The following. year, the map seen at right was. published in the New York Times. Mrs.

Hill, struck by the similarity between. the Times map and her sketch, then added. the corresponding names. Yeah. And it ended up being the Zeta. Reticuli binary star system, which was. really interesting. And I remember when. I first heard about Bob's story back in. 1989, and he said Zeta Reticuli. I remember thinking, "Wow, that's what. Betty Hill saw." So, that made me also. question, "Is that real in that. document? Did Did these guys really come.

from there?". You know, because it was mentioned in. 1968. Right. So, why would the government, the. US Navy, write that in there that would correlate. to something that we already kind of. knew? I think that was a a purposeful. disinformation. >> [snorts]. >> to disinform someone. I think so. But, why? If maybe it's true. Yeah, go ahead. We'll we'll we'll pause. right here and use the restroom. We'll. be right back, folks. I really got to I. got it. No worries. No worries. We'll be. right back.

Um we were talking about this whole Zeta. Reticuli thing. So, when you're dealing with so many. different crafts and so many different. things, the idea that only one. species or one thing more advanced than. us is visiting us seems kind of silly. If the universe is populated by all. these things. I don't know. Does it? That's it. >> Kind of. Kind of. >> the universe is really big. I do Do you.

think everybody can find this place? I. mean, >> Yeah. I would imagine um it's like spots that. you visit. Like uh you know, there's. Machu Picchu, there's ancient Egypt, there's you know, sub-Saharan Africa. There's a bunch of different places. where people go. You know, just humans on Earth. And I. would imagine if you have an. understanding of how life is evolving in. the cosmos, you there's probably stages where things. reach certain levels. And if you are a.

>> far apart. >> Right? >> They're far apart. I mean, one could be. in this quadrant of the. Milky Way galaxy, and they reach that. point where they can travel and explore. Mhm. And there's. a far distant point where another. civilization civilization can do that. And I mean, really, do you think there. are that many? I don't think there are. that many civilizations visiting us. There's certainly There's no doubt that. there's one from somewhere on another.

planet, another time, another dimension, whatever it may be. Someone else is here. We're not the top, you know, of the pyramid. No. >> We're absolutely not there. There's no. question. Well, I think if you got technology that. say, let's let's just say the Grays. Let's say the Grays are real. Let's say. they fly around these little crafts. Why would we assume that it stops there? Why wouldn't we assume the technology. gets to the point where not only are.

they far more advanced than them, but. they also are completely undetectable? Well, if you want to view the universe. as infinite, Yeah. then it then it never. stops. >> It scales out. There's somebody above. them, and there's somebody above them, and there's somebody above them, and it. never stops. >> watching this lecture where this woman. was talking about quantum entanglement, and she was talking about how maybe our. understanding of space and the distance. between things is limited by what our.

our current. technology is and our current. understanding of what what space and. time actually are. And she What she was. saying yeah. What she was saying is. there might not be we might at one point. in time, given enough time, thousands of. years, whatever, be able to. instantaneously travel anywhere. And that just how like. quantum like like like subatomic. particles are connected in some sort of. a strange way that we don't totally. understand even at far distance spooky. action at a distance, right?

>> As Einstein said, yeah. >> Right. That we might eventually get to a. point where that's how travel works. That's instantaneous travel everywhere. I think we just have hints of these. technologies. Look, everything. you know, we look at Maxwell's equations. and things like that that we base all. electromagnetic, electrostatic, you know, um. actions on and how they relate to time. and how they relate to things in our. universe, but.

uh. that may be nothing. There There may be. an entire level of physics that we're. unfamiliar with that you know, these. crafts, these people, or these. civilizations. just utilize. Um. Of course. I mean, if you just stop and. think about going from Morse code to a. cell phone. in a relatively short period of time. historically. You go to the the.

difference between 1200 and 1400 is not. that big of a deal in terms of. technology, what's available. The. difference between 1800 and 2026 is. massive. >> Yeah, right. Yeah. It is a massive crazy. change, right? So, 2026 to. 2226, who knows what we're talking. about. >> Right. Especially when you have sentient. AI, you have nuclear power plants that.

are controlling sentient AI that are. fueling them and giving them resources. I mean, you really have no limit to where this. goes. You scale out a thousand years. You scale out two thousand years. >> You really can't scale out a thousand. years. Right. It's not possible. >> even at a hundred years, it's way Yeah. Too much. >> way more than we would would have ever. considered. Also, it's exponential, right? Right. That's That's why you. can't scale out to a thousand years. >> you think it's exponential now, imagine.

when you have AI able to generate better. versions of itself, which is what's. happening with ChatGPT 5. It's. essentially made by ChatGPT 4. Now, I AI. is that absolutely the death of us. There's. >> [laughter]. >> There's no There's no question. Well, we're certainly going to become obsolete. in terms of our thinking. But, >> If we're obsolete in terms of our. thinking, we're obsolete. I mean, all all AI needs is hands, right? I think we integrate.

That's what I think happens. Yeah. That's a scary. >> And And And that's a Yeah, I was going. to say, and that's a scary thought. That's a scary thought because it's like. we're going to integrate. I think it's. inevitable. I think you're right about. that. We're just going there. It's It's. not like. even if you and I are not going to. actually do it, somebody will, and it's. going to integrate because other people. will, and it's going to happen. But, it's still the same primate. We're still. the same human. Sort of, but we we. already have problems with joints, and. so we replace them with fake ones. We. you know, take titanium knees and you.

know, Yeah, but they don't work as good. They don't for now. Yeah. But, before. they used to not work at all. Like, you. know, I've met people that had surgeries in. the 1980s, like knee surgeries, and oh. my god, they're crippled for life. Even though. they put your knee back together again, it's still destroyed. >> Mhm. You know, you get a knee surgery. today, six months later, you're a. hundred percent. No, I'd I'd love to. know the future. Yeah. Well, it's going. to I'd love to know the future. Well, that is. So, one of the things that I want to.

talk about is the the actual. the generator, this thing that works on. this element that bombards it with. radiation. How did you guys figure out. what the function of it was and what it. did? So, when you're first introduced to. this craft, and you see. this this dome. >> reactor that's covering this this thing. that's generating this power. What What.

was. What was the introduction to it? How did. they explain it to you? >> The introduction was was way before me. Um. and. that's where the guy. prior to me either got hurt or killed. So, they determined that this was the power. source. And at some point. they decided to take that out to the. nuclear test site because they wanted to. cut into it. Um they x-rayed it. They They only found.

a small tube that ran went around it. They really couldn't determine how it. worked or what was going on. So, at some point and and Barry made this. somewhat clear that they cut into the. reactor while it was running. or or while it was under load, I should. say. And the reactor exploded.

That's what killed or hurt the person. that I replaced. But, um it produced. the. the base gravitational wave or base. energy that provided that propelled the. craft that provided the craft the. propulsion. I mean, when they removed. it, the craft didn't work. When they put. it in, every single other craft they. found had something either exactly like.

it or similar to it. So, uh. they determined that was the power. source. That's at the point that I was. introduced into the project. So, when. you say gravitational wave, is that for. lack of a better term, or is it. something that's measured? Is it. >> No, it's a it's for lack of a better. term. Like there there's nothing I mean. uh as I said in Luigi's movie, you can. take magnets with like poles and push. them together and they repel, but you. can't take your hands ever and push on. something and they repel them. That's a.

force field, right? That's science. fiction stuff. But that's what this did. And this produced a field that repelled. the craft from the ground. >> Did you try to touch it? Yeah, yeah. And. when you try to touch it What did you. feel? I. an elastic field. You can push down, but. you can't get close to it. The closer. you get to it, the the more it pushes. back. So. you can Like how much distance between. you and the actual thing you were able.

to see it? >> would say about 6 in or so? Uh maybe. about 9 in, which is about a span. And. um. No, it's. at some point you you can't push back on. it at all, but the important thing is. if you have a magnet. a little disc magnet sitting on the. ground. and you have another magnet and you push. on it, that magnet moves away, right?

Yeah. >> Cuz it's pushing on it. But the craft didn't. The reactor. didn't. If you had the craft it the. reactor there and you pushed back on it. it didn't push away when you pushed on. it. It just prevented you from touching. it. >> Yeah, and so when Dennis said go go out. there and look under the craft. um here's the craft. whatever it weighs. suspending itself above the ground and I.

went underneath it, you would think it's. translating its weight onto the ground. and pushing and I should be. squashed. >> Squashed but without any doubt, but I'm. not. There's no feeling there at all. So. it's not translating its weight or its. push to the ground and pushing off the. ground, it's just canceling out its. weight, which is something completely. different. Mhm. And so.

when. so element 115. um so you have it in this triangle shape. form. Mhm. Did you ask how they got into. a triangle shape form? Was it made like. this? This is how it came in the. reactor. I did, but I mean it only. worked like that. It worked like a stack. of this discs and had to be cut at a. certain angle to work in the reactor. And And did they say they cut it or did. they say it was already cut? Well, it was already cut and they were.

duplicating it. Pull that microphone up. to you. So they they were duplicating. it. Did they have more of it, this. element? >> Yeah, yeah, they had quite a bit of it. So either there was a quantity in other. other crafts or other reactors that they. removed. Yeah. But was there any discussion that there. had been some sort of an exchange where. they had been giving this? No. So one of the things like do you know. Diana Pasulka? She's an author that's written some.

interesting stuff about UFOs and she's. worked with Gary Nolan and you know on. material recollection from supposed. crash crash sites. And. she said that the way these researchers. refer to these crafts they refer to them. as donations. And I guess that's possible. Right. Well, doesn't it make sense if if this. thing crashed, why is it perfect? Why is. it not destroyed? Look, I I've heard so. many I'm not into UFOs Right, which is.

hilarious. >> Yeah, that's that's crazy. Um I'm just interested in the technology. and I feel very privileged to have been. involved in the project. But um. I don't know. I I I I don't I don't. think. I don't think there can be that many. crashes, do you? No. >> technology, you think they're coming to. Earth and just there's a. a thunderstorm and they're crashing into. the ground. I'm not I'm not buying that.

>> There's one logical explanation that. does actually make sense. There were. some high altitude nuclear tests that. they did. And. >> Well, there was the Teak test, you know, back in the '60s. >> Starfish Prime. And Starfish Prime, right. >> Yeah. Um. if you had no idea that this was about. to happen and you were hovering over. Earth observing us. >> What are the chances? I mean what are. the chances? They're not very high. >> Yeah, they're not very I mean what are. the chances a craft is coming over and.

they did a nuclear test that exact. second? Unless there's a lot more. observation than we know. And that they. just. observe us in a way that we can't see. them. As especially if you're going back. to the 1950s and 1960s. we have very few satellites. We have. very That was the nuclear cowboy era. >> Yeah. Where they were just Well, they. just. Starfish Prime, explain to people what. they did. Yeah. I they did a 1.4 megaton, you know.

detonation up there and just. I think all they did let's see what. happens if we blow it up at this. altitude. I mean that's crazy. You know, there was another. test planned to blow up on the moon. Just just to make the Russians look uh. you know like [laughter]. like we were awesome. Um. you know. But they. >> Detonate the moon. What if they pushed. it away and it up our orbit?

Yeah, I think that would take a lot. more. I know. I mean there was really I. I don't remember what the uh. the project. Project A119. >> Oh, A119, that was it. Yeah, I. >> Study of lunar research flights. Detonate nuclear Yeah, I I can't pull up. these numbers, but yeah, A project. A111A. Crazy. Yeah, we're going to do. that. Because then like everybody on. Earth could just go outside and look at. the moon get blown up. And the.

>> [laughter]. >> the explosion would be faintly visible. to the human eye to people on Earth. >> Yeah. Wow. >> I still think they should have done. that. But um. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, but you're you're the guy that put. a jet engine in the back of a Honda. Like let's see. >> think they should detonate a nuclear. bomb on the 4th of July every year. But that's just me. Um Well, also you live in Nevada. >> [laughter]. >> and it's more you're used to it at. least. It had a long history of them. doing that. Yeah, oh man. So going back to this uh.

reactor. So. did how was it explained to you? Did. they explain to you how the technology. works or what they know about it? Like. Now, the way it was explained to me is. is. when I got to be alone with Barry, he. said he was excited to show this to me. He said I'm going to turn this is the. reactor that we assume powers the craft. Sorry. No worries. I'm uh. I'm going to uh show you the reactor.

that powers the craft. And he turned it. on. Small little dome on a flat little. plate. I said Was this in the craft or was this. on a table? >> this is in the experimental area. Okay. And um So this was not the one that was. in the sport craft, this was another. one. This was another one. >> This is it right here. >> that's it. That's it. Okay, that's in. the film. >> And yeah, on on the table and he had it. there and he went over. to the emitter and rotated it and he. said try and touch it.

And I put my hand on it and it it. rebounded off. And I. at the closer you got to it, the more it. pushed back. And um that's that's a real shock. because there's nothing that pushes back. like that. That that's a that's a living. force field, that's science fiction. stuff. So. um that really got my attention. So. explain what is happening like in terms. of the rotation of this thing? Like what it what is happening? Like. what energy is going into it that's.

causing it to go on? Well, actually we. don't know that. I mean that that's the whole thing. It's. it's pushing back. That's a. it's a repulsive gravitational field. Like as far as we know gravity gravity. only has an attractive force to it. We've never even with any matter. we've analyzed it and it still has. an attractive force to it. There's no. repulsive force that we've discovered.

Because that would be a great propulsion. system. But this repulsed. So this was a a new field completely. >> But how was he turning it on? He had. the emitter, which is a big pipe. Part. of What is an emitter? Like what is. The craft itself has on the main level. has the reactor. and what we call the amplifiers. Three. react the reactor and three amplifiers.

Right underneath that. there are three emitters. that are right under the amplifiers. And. we believe the energy. from the reactor is amplified by the. emitters. And By the amplifiers. By the. amplifiers, sorry. And transmitted to. the emitters. And they produce this field that lifts. the craft off the ground. And that's how it works. But there is. nothing.

nothing even in our physics or our. science that. that correlates to that at all. >> And what is the energy that's going to. them that causes it to turn on? don't. >> I mean we just assume it's gravity. because it's the only thing we know like. that, but. it has a negative gravity effect. So, it might be a new force entirely. But when you were saying, so you have. this machine that's next to it that you. do something to that causes it to turn.

on. The emitter. The right. There's the. amplifier and there's the emitter which. looks like a big pipe. Right. And if you. rotate the emitter, I don't remember how. many degrees was it? 20 degrees? >> Three 20 degrees or something like that. That connects it in some way. to. the reactor and it begins to be powered. >> And what is the emitter doing? It emits that field. It's not a gravitate.

It could be a gravitational field, but. it's an anti-gravitational field that. pushes on the ground. And what's. happening in the emitter? Did you study. the emitter? Well, we attempted to, but. no. There was nothing that we really came up. with that. But what does it look like? Like what's. the internal structure of it? >> It's just it's a hollow pipe with. I guess. little copper colored plates all inside. It's kind of in the in the film. Mhm. Um.

But this. I mean, these guys have been working on. it for years before I got there and. there was really no. no concept of what they were doing. Did they explain to you why element 115. is crucial to this working and what. >> No, but. no. So, element 115 um. was. not even really discussed back when you. were doing this. It was. It wasn't even discovered or proven.

physically until it was a large hadron. collider experiment in the 2000s, right? No, I know they they synthesized that. But look, and you know, in in any. element there's always. there's always a large amount of. um. Well, it did It doesn't decay. Yeah. That was the thing about in the large.

hadron collider experiment, they they. were able to achieve it, but it only. existed for a few milliseconds. Yeah. Sorry, I've had too much. No worries. So, >> um. did they. How did they define this material? >> I mean, there's different isotopes of of. every element. And. element 115, just like any other. element, uh there can be a stable version of it.

and a hundred or 50 different unstable. elements to them. So, >> [sighs]. >> I'm sorry. No, no, it's all right. Just. try to. continue the train of thought. So, It's. basically different isotopes of it. Yeah, different isotopes. I've I need to. stop drinking this. >> [laughter]. >> It's all right. Have a cup of coffee. I can't even remember. Yeah, so coffee's. good. Oh, we got coffee.

Oh my god. All right. Holy cow. There you go. Let. it hop. Um Yeah, there's I mean, there's. there's different isotopes. And you were. able to physically touch this element. Oh, absolutely. I was physically. physically able to touch the element. Yeah. But when you're physically able to. touch it, there's no adverse effects. It. doesn't have any effect on the Feel like. metal? Does it feel like plastic? >> It looks copper like. I mean, maybe it's. not as dark as copper is, but it it's.

that color. Um. and. uh I haven't seen an element like that. It has unique properties that other. elements don't have. It produces. an anti-gravitational field. When combined with energy. With some kind of energy it produces. this field. >> Yeah. And was it understood what is happening? Like what is the relationship between. this element and this Like how is What.

is going on? Like you're bombarding this element with. something? Yeah, I. From what we understood, we x-rayed the. reactor itself. and there was a path around it. that looked It made it look like a. cyclotron. So, it looked like. there was an accelerator. So, when they were explaining it to you, is is is this just your work partner. that's explaining this stuff to you?

>> Yes, it's it's just Barry that's. explaining. >> And did you ask him, how do you know. this? Where are you getting this from? Is this. Yeah, he got this information prior to. me. Um. and they x-rayed it, found. um a a structure in there to where they. believed it was an accelerator and it. was interacting. the point of the one The 115 is in a. little triangular. piece Mhm. and it was um interacting.

with that in some fashion. So, And did he say whether or not the United. States government or whoever was doing. this research had tried to recreate one. of those on their own? That uh that was our job to try to. recreate one of those on their own. But. what was the metal that it was made out. of? We don't know. We don't know. >> Again, the metallurgy was not that was. not. It seems insane that you couldn't. communicate to them that whatever this.

stuff is made out of, this whole thing. acts as one cohesive unit. It's not like. you could make the same exact thing with. aluminum or carbon fiber. >> No, you can't. This thing acted. differently. This thing acted differently than any. material that we knew. And I mean, I think all the answers are. in the metallurgy guys. It you know, that's That's who knew what was going. on, who was able to provide the answers. But um.

as far as we knew, if we didn't have the. connection with those other groups, we. weren't really going to make any. progress. You were speculating that there was a. type of. metallic alloy that would work better. with. this concept. Was it Byzantine? Like. what what was. >> Bismuth. Bismuth, yes. Did I say that? >> think so. I don't know. I don't think. so. No. Someone Someone that I talked to.

was explaining to me. >> It's related to on the periodic table. I. mean, bismuth is above it and 115 is. below it. But um we never did see any. correlation between bismuth. This was a. completely new material. Well, I think. Oh, that's what it was. Oh, this is what. it was. So, one of the pieces that Gary. Nolan had [clears throat] found that was. Gary Nolan is the guy to Stanford that. has examined these pieces that are from. supposedly crashed sites crash sites.

where something had gone down and. scattered. Some of these pieces, they're atomically. layered and. >> I've heard that. >> magnesium and bismuth seem to be. prevalent in this. >> Bismuth is the thing. Yeah. Bismuth is. the thing. It's right above 115 on the. periodic chart and there's Yeah, there's. something about that. There's something. about 115. Yeah. There's weird magnetism. stuff with bismuth. There's a video from. the Action Lab, The Strange Magnetism of. Bismuth. And it's showing a bunch of.

>> Yeah. So, let him play it out a little bit. I'm trying to find the. What is diamagnetic? >> Diamagnetic is it opposes magnetic. fields. I see. So, it kind of makes sense if they're. finding these pieces that are. the way he was explaining. >> Bismuth. That's bismuth, yeah. the way. he's explaining this whatever this alloy. was, this very small piece that was. found, I believe in. prior to the 1970s. I don't remember the. exact date that he said. From one of.

these crash One of them was from Brazil. that they had recovered. And someone had. gotten possession of it in the 1990s and. someone had gotten it eventually to Gary. Nolan. He said that to create this on Earth, first of all, it can't be done with. current technology. We don't have the. ability to do this. >> technology? >> Yes. And that it would cost billions of. dollars. just theoretically to make this and it's. It doesn't exist. Yeah, this is it. Alleged. extraterrestrial metal the bottom of a.

wedge shaped craft in 1940s. 26. alternating layers, 1 to 4 microns dark. bismuth. with a hundred to two hundred microns of. silver magnesium zinc alloy. Each piece. received from the US Army source were. formed with a curvature that tapered. Oh, in the four in the 40s. Yeah. Right. That good good luck making that in the. 40s. >> says a wedge. wedge shaped craft in late 1940s. That's. Roswell. I mean, that's that's Roswell. Well, I mean, what What does it do? I.

would like to see the test results of. just the material. Um we can make that now. We can? Yeah. 1 to 4 microns of bismuth? 200 microns of silver? Yeah. The thing is like making something like. that in the 1940s is absolutely. impossible. >> in the 40s, forget it. >> But I mean, now we could fabricate. something like that. >> And it would cost a shitload of money. So, like the idea that you would make. something like that and just scatter it. around and go, But what But what does it.

do? Right. What does it do? Why? Why is. magnesium and bismuth why in that. particular. >> There is something about Bismuth. There was something about Bismuth. But. that's that's why it's so fascinating. I. would I would love to know where they. Like it's been 40 years. I would love to. know Where they're at now. Yeah, where. they're at now. If they continued. Well, they had to have continued. I. can't I can't imagine you go, "Ah, we're. done.". No, I mean they might have moved it. I. mean like I like I said before I mean. they were anxious to move it out of.

there at that time. But Are you aware of. the labyrinths in Egypt that they. discovered? So, there's this. >> Are you talking about the The columns. Columns on the. >> no. This is unrelated. This is something. different. So, Herodotus discussed this. Now, my friend Ben Van Kerkwijk, he has. UnchartedX on. YouTube. It's an amazing channel where. he was a tech guy who just got. absolutely fascinated by all these.

stories of ancient history and really. got obsessed with Egypt and Peru and and. left his field and started making these. incredible videos. But he's highly. intelligent incredibly articulate. And. so these videos are just absolutely. fantastic and really uh. he's he's. very well versed scientifically so you. can understand these things and explain. them to you. Like they're examining like. the construction of the pyramids and the.

whatever technology was used to carve. the stones and there's just so much of. it that is like confusing because it's. it clearly is like a very high level of. sophistication and technology that's. involved in creating these things. Well, Herodotus described these labyrinths. that were underground in Giza. Not not. not in Giza, but Hawara? Is that where. it was? Jimmy will find it. But this these the. way Herodotus described it he said they.

were far superior and more impressive. than the the the pyramids of Giza. Underground. Well, these massive. labyrinths that exist underground were. all flooded in the 1960s accidentally. when they created dams in order to. provide irrigation to agriculture that. was in the area. So, they changed the. water table, it up. This whole. area got flooded. >> Did they know they were there when they. accidentally. >> because a lot of this stuff like this is.

from thousands and thousands of years. ago. A lot of it was covered over with. sand and you know, there had there had. been some explorers a long time ago that. went there and saw some of what was in. there. But the way Herodotus described. it it's just absolutely fantastic. So, then they started using ground. penetrating radar. And they started. using these various technologies that. could detect what was under the surface. And one of the things that they found. was there's a massive atrium. And inside. this atrium yes. >> There is a 40 m long metallic object.

that is inside this atrium. 40 m of some unknown metal. How deep is. it? I believe it's 100 m into the ground. So, you're telling me ground penetrating. radar can get to 100 m underground and. >> that. Filippo Bondi has used from satellites. The one that we were talking about. >> more than a kilometer into the ground. And. >> With decent resolution? Well, No. not.

decent resolution, but enough that you. could see symmetry. Enough that they can. also detect things that are well known. 100 m is for chambers Well, listen to. this. They got they detected accurately. a particle collider in Italy that is. inside of a mountain 1.2 km below the. mountain. It sees through the mountain. and can detect this thing in the exact. diameter the exact. dimensions that this thing exist. So, they can show you this.

>> Yes. A particle collider? Yes. So, this. is a particle collider that they they. know exists, right? So, this is an. actual particle collider. >> looking for it just to prove So, they. they just it's just proof that this. technology is not just. >> Well, wait. I mean hang on. I mean how. do they know it's a particle collider? >> No, no. Well, no, the particle collider. exists. This is a the the the Italians. have this particle collider. It it it. it's known. They made it. It's like it's. >> Okay, they they didn't detect something. underground. Right. No, it's not like we. found a particle collider that didn't.

exist. No, no, no, no. So, this [laughter]. particle collider they used this. technology to show that you can see. straight through this mountain to this. particle collider that's underneath the. mountain. So, they know the the exact dimensions. of this particle collider. You can see. you can almost draw a schematic of it. Well, through this technology they've. also found these columns that are below. the pyramids. These columns are 22 m 20. plus meters in diameter and they have.

something that resembles coils around. all of them. And they're positioned at. various points all around where the. structure is. It goes all the way down. into hundreds of meters down and then it. goes to another structure and the whole. complex of it these structures goes to. over a kilometer into the ground. >> But how can you see a kilometer. underground? Well, you would have to. understand this technology. What it it. was it called radio tomography? He. explained it to me. >> aperture radar, right? Yes. Well,

whatever this technology. >> a kilometer underground at decent. resolution? It's not decent resolution, but it's enough to understand the scope. of what it is. It's enough to understand. where spaces are Like everybody knows. about this but me. I mean. It's pretty fascinating. I'll send you. the podcast and I'll send you some of. his conferences where he was explaining. this to room fills with scientists. >> You would think they'd be anxious to dig. this up. >> They are. And there's there's there's actual like. studies that are Okay. currently being.

discussed. Well, they already know that. there's these channels that go in the. ground that have since been covered with. silt and sand because you know the the. sand's constantly moving. But these. things go hundreds of meters down these. shafts that go down. Like if they find. hundreds of If they find shafts hundreds. of meters down with coils around them. Look, that's advanced technology. >> Exactly. This is the point. This is the. [clears throat] point. Whatever this thing is that they have in. an atrium. Like if they said that they. got that craft from an archaeological.

dig. I mean what. Maybe the Egyptians had found something. similar to this thousands and thousands. and thousands of years ago. >> believe that's possible. Yeah. Well, The object that you're I didn't I. actually got to speak to Filippo Bondi. by the way. He's in Italy he's in Rome we got to. speak I speak Italian so we got to talk. and we talked about that. I had no idea. they found something with a metal object. down there though. This is not Filippo.

Bondi's work. This is some different. scientists that are just studying the. labyrinths. Jimmy, pull up some some of. the schematics of the labyrinth. So, in. the labyrinth there's like a big. >> Sorry. atrium. You got to pee again? Yeah. Go. ahead. Go ahead. >> Sorry. Head up. Yeah. Go ahead. I feel like a ass. >> Don't worry about it. Get some air. Clear your head. I have a prostate. So, in this in this labyrinth there's a. large atrium. And in this large atrium. there is essentially a Tic Tac.

>> Really? a Tic Tac shaped object that is. 40 m long that is of some unknown metal. They don't know what it is. They don't. know how it works. But this is this. structure is all underground. in Egypt. >> Which is wild because and how how it's. 100 m? Well, look at Well, we'll get a. chance to look at it. This is Hawara. So, So, there where it says the 40 m. metallic object. See that where it says. Hawara Rising?

>> Yeah. So, if you click on that it talks. about the 40 m metallic object. discovered in Egyptians. I don't think I can't We can't read a. report on that. >> Subterranean labyrinth. Yeah. This is. people talking about it. >> Right. Got it. But so whatever it is, you play out some of the video just so. we could talk about it. >> [snorts]. >> So, this this whole thing if you see some of. the images that they're discussing. friends Luis Dacordier will get into. images I think. And today we're. Yeah. about the work that I um Chicago.

Huh. uh and the team that was in uh. Poland as well. And at that point is when I had met the. person Lucinda Lubis. who later became my wife 6 months later. So, yeah, you you actually. um. were working with the NRA G and then the. I don't know what they're talking about. Yeah, that is not going to help us. But. if you could just go to some of the. images where they've sort of outlined. what it is. >> find it. I That's.

There is not a very clear image of the. metallic object that. they're talking. >> But just the labyrinth itself what they. think the structure of it was. That's. why I I don't know where they got this. from is also the other issue. >> m mystery metal object that. >> That's a weird rendering that doesn't. usually come out from Right, but there's. some other drawings of like from the. Herodotus days and. >> Yeah, but I. Like so, this is what they think it. looks like under the ground. >> [snorts]. >> Which is completely bonkers. And. if there is some 40 m metallic object.

that's under the ground and we are. talking about like the sport model being. a part of an archaeological Right. They. might have found something back then. and worshiped that thing and had that. thing as like. >> They turned it into this. Right. As a. pyramid Yeah. I I I I think there's something to that. Well, there. you know, all these people that believe. that there was a incredibly advanced. civilization before some sort of. apocalyptic disaster that. reset civilization and it took thousands.

of years. And what we are essentially is. not the first advanced civilization but. a rebuild. A rebuild thousands and. thousands and thousands of years later. You know, that rings true with me. And. as Graham Hancock always says, we are a. species with amnesia. And I think that. makes sense. And I think if you're. dealing with people that were basically. knocked back into the Stone Age 11,000, 12,000 years ago and it took us forever. to rebuild to where we are now. I think. we've gone down a completely different.

path than whatever the people that were. able to build the pyramids of Egypt and. all these fantastic megalithic. structures were in in a we don't. understand the technology we used. We. don't And it doesn't it literally. doesn't make sense that they were able. to do this. It's even like when we see. those big gigantic stones and they're. not just piled together. They're like. interlocked in weird shapes and all. that. It's like how do we how did that. happen? I mean that you know, those are. the things that yeah, I agree with you. >> Yeah, archaeologists are very reluctant. to admit it but there's tremendous.

evidence that not only were these people. far more advanced than we think people. should have been back then but they're. probably more advanced than we are now. with some. different kind of technology. And maybe. like again, it's like a it's like. advanced but in a different way. Right. Right cuz otherwise. >> pathway. They didn't go. >> our way. Yeah, they didn't go internal. combustion engine and electronics. >> Cuz we would see something. >> Exactly. >> Right. But might not if you're thinking. about a 100,000 years ago. There might.

not be anything left which is part of. the problem. But whatever this metallic. object is, if they are able to figure. out a way to divert some of the water. there. see all layers converge at a central. corridor or avenue, he said, like the. atrium of shopping mall where you can. see all floors from one vantage point. A. hall consisting of a massive space 40 m. wide and no less than 100 m long. My. personal interpretation, Tim said, is. that the entire hall was constructed to. house a centrally positioned.

free-standing object about 40 m long. Wow. So this hall, they believe was. constructed to house whatever this 40-m. long unknown metallic object is. >> not dig that up? Well, they could but. it's going to cost an immense amount of. money. And the thing is about the. Egyptians the people that run it, I had. one of them on the podcast, Zahi Hawass, and he's incredibly dogmatic about his. ideas of who built this and what. And. when you say, "How did they make these.

structures? 2 million, 300,000 stones. that weigh between 2 and 80 tons. The. biggest stones cut from quarries that. were hundreds of miles away through the. mountain." And it's like, "This was a. national project." Yeah, man. The. Egyptians did everything because. [laughter] they were awesome. Yeah. I'm. sure they were awesome. I'm sure they. were awesome but it doesn't explain the. technology involved cuz there's extreme. technology. Just to be able to cut those. things. Like one of the things that they. don't understand is these vases. These vases that they made that are. perfectly Yeah. perfectly designed where.

there's the the difference between like. the edges and the symmetry is like a. thousandth of a human hair. And these. are cut out of incredibly hard granite. They don't Really? I've never heard. Yeah. Yeah. You guys are familiar with. that. >> This is a 3D print of one of them that. exists. >> Yeah, and they're fascinated by the. perfection and they're saying how did. they do that? We don't even know how to. do that. incredibly hard stone. >> Built with an incredible precision. Yes.

Incredibly. incredibly hard granite, incredible. precision back when they had no metal. alloys. They had copper tools. It. doesn't make any sense. None of it makes. any sense. Then there's the symmetry. involved in some of these statues. Like. they're perfectly symmetrical in terms. of the distance between the eyes, the. nose, the lips. Most No one's face is. symmetrical. Your your left side of your. face is different. If you combine the. two sides, they they look it looks. weird. But when you look at these.

statues, these statues which are. massive, carved out of granite again, supposedly before they had steel. Like. they didn't have diamond-tipped. instruments to do this. They polished. them. They're perfectly symmetrical and. massive. Some of them are a thousand. tons. And they don't have any. understanding of how these people built. these things or put them there. And they. all seem to be the biggest, most. spectacular ones are the oldest. How could you not want to dig those up? Yeah, well they And look and look at.

them because I mean they're concerned. about national pride but if you dig them. up, I It's not just national pride. It's. the pride of the people that have been. espousing this one narrative for so. long. That's part of the problem. The. gatekeepers of the information. >> It's still national pride. >> It is but these people are idiots. That. that's part of the problem. Like they. their own ego is preventing them from. being open-minded and calling out to the. world's research communities and saying, "Listen, there's something going on. here. We don't have the big picture. We.

have a picture that we have formed from. a limited amount of information and. we've been incredibly arrogant about. what we're assuming. We also know that a. lot of these pharaohs would carve their. name and carve their hieroglyphs into. existing things. They would claim. existing things. Some of the carvings on. these things are far cruder in the way. they've done it than the actual. construction of the thing. And they. think that these are old things that. were there already and then these later. pharaohs Just wanted to attach his name.

>> chiseled their hieroglyphs into these. things. And another thing and this has been. mentioned a lot is the fact that there's. no tools that were ever discovered in. those areas that would prove that those. thing that those things were made with. those and they have to use tools. They. have to have something. So there's not. even that. That's not even available. So. it's like how did they do it? Did they. hide the tools? Did they I mean why. would they do that? It doesn't None of. it makes any sense. And also these.

incredibly hard vases that you find, they're the oldest ones. They're the the. things that they find in the oldest. sites. It's like the most complicated, complex, confusing technology seems to. be the oldest stuff. There's also like You had another guy. here that that does a research on Peru. and he was talk I can't remember his. name. I got to meet him. Luke Caverns? Was it him? >> Yeah, he goes to Peru and he has a show. about that about the the ancient stuff. that they're finding underground in. Peru. >> There's a couple guys. What was the. other guy?

He. He's got black hair. I can't remember. his name. >> That's Luke. The younger guy? >> Yeah, younger guy. >> Luke. So basically he was talking about. the fact that there's two layers of. ancient stuff in Peru. The first layer. is younger and what's below it is what's. really incredible and more complex. >> More complex but they don't want to go. there because you're going to destroy an. existing archaeological site that's on. top of it. So what's happening is they're having. trouble now getting permission to go to. the lower level which is even better.

because they're they're going to have to. break an archaeological site of a of a. more recent. part of that civilization. >> is a common theme among people. We build. on older sites. There's a place that I. go to in Italy in the Amalfi Coast and. there's this incredible old. church there that's over a thousand. years old. But it's built on an even. older church and there's a plexiglass. floor that shows the old church. >> Yes. That the old church is underneath. it and you can see the structure of this.

old church. And I was asking them, "How. old is the old church?" They go, "We. don't know.". It's over a thousand years old. So it's. over a thousand years old this church. and then this really old church is on. top of it that's like hundreds and. hundreds of years old also. But they. built it on top of an existing. structure. So this is a common theme. This is a theme in Peru where you see. the Inca construction which is like much. less complicated, smaller stones, you. know, mud mortar and it but it's on top. of these megalithic structures that are.

carved in these jigsaw shapes where it. seems like they're they've been melted. Yeah. It's freaky stuff. They have no. understanding of what technology was. used, who did it, how they did it, how. they moved these immense thousand-ton. stones and cut them with precision in. this jigsaw way so that it will absorb. the energy of earthquakes and not fall. down. Yeah, that's crazy. I mean that's crazy. >> There's a lot of that stuff that's. really, really freaky. And then you get. into old religious texts and that's when.

things get really freaky. You get to. things like the Book of Enoch that talk. about the watchers who came down from. the sky and created humans. A lot of. unusual stuff happened a long time a. long time ago. And we don't have a good. record of it. We just have what we know. and what we know we get very arrogant. about. We know what happened 300 years. ago. >> good point. Of what we know we get very. arrogant about. >> it's also And anything else we don't. >> These academics.

and these people that are in charge of. the narrative like the people in Egypt. where they're very arrogant and they're. gatekeepers cuz their whole identity is. based on them being the ones that. explained to the world how these. incredible sites were produced. And if. something comes along that is counter to. that narrative. they fight it. They fight it because it. is their it's part of them. It's their. identity. Yeah, when I spoke to Filippo. Biondi, I talked to one of my cousins in. Italy. I spent a lot of my time in Italy. when I was younger. One of them, she was.

younger than I was when I was there but. she's now become a respected archaeol. archaeologist in Rome and she's an. Egyptologist, okay? And I went out to. Italy to visit family and I was sitting. at the table. This is not even that long. ago. And she's sitting next to me and I. mean I remember her from from being a. kid. And she nudged me at the table. There's her family's all academic. Everybody's a doctor or scientist or. something like that. So, there's always. that pride of the science and she nudges.

me and in Italian she says, "I'm really. interested in what what you do, what. you're looking into." And I knew what. she meant. It was about UFOs. And I just. responded, "I'm I'm even more interested. in what you know about what's out there. in Egypt.". And she looked at me. and she says, "We don't really know. all of it, some a lot of she said a lot. of it makes no sense.". But she said it whispering because she.

knew that that's not well seen at the. table cuz now she's going to come across. as this pseudo-science type of like, "Oh. my god, she's going to come out of the. the the mainstream, you know." So, and then she she came she. went to her place and I was still there. We were there for a couple of days. She. came and gave me a little book. and. it in Italian, I don't know how to say. it. Il van the the the missing I don't.

know how to say it in English, but. the missing evangelio, like the missing. scriptures, basically. It's a little. book in Italian about the missing. scriptures that are not in the Bible. that speak of things that are not. convenient. for what we. are arrogant to think we understand. And. one of the fascinating things about. these missing scriptures is they found. them alongside existing scriptures. So, when they found the Dead Sea Scrolls in. Qumran, so they found these in a cave in.

Qumran. And it was it's kind of a crazy. thing like someone threw a rock and hit. a clay pot and heard the shattering of a. clay pot. So, they threw a rock into. this high. cave and. realized there was something in there. and then they started looking and then. they found these scrolls that were in. these clay pots. Inside the scrolls they. found the Book of Isaiah. It was a thousand years older than the. oldest version of the Book of Isaiah. that we had ever found and. it's identical verbatim to the Book of.

Isaiah that is currently in the Bible. Along with it is the Book of Enoch and. the Book of Enoch is squirrely. >> Yeah. That Book of Enoch is squirrely. That's a good way to describe it. Just a. few rabbis decided that the Book of. Enoch was too weird cuz it didn't jive. with the Torah, so they left it out of. the biblical canon. That's why it's not. taught. But the Book of Enoch is readily. available. You can read it and it's also. in the Ethiopian Bible. The Ethiopian. Bible includes the Book of Enoch.

>> Really? Yes, and those are the people. that supposedly are in possession of the. Ark of the Covenant. >> the Covenant, yeah. Which is like. Graham Hancock talks about it. There's. like a person is set to like they have a. job of watching the Ark of the Covenant, but it's known that it's going to kill. them, so they all get cataracts and. cancer and they all want to die. >> things, yeah, that's right. >> Well, it has some sort of radiation. apparently and they they exhibit signs. of radiation poisoning when these people. are designed to be the curators. >> Where is the Ark of the Covenant. supposed to be? >> supposedly in Ethiopia. So, you guys.

think that's. I mean, I'm very. >> it's ancient technology. I think it's. probably ancient technology. It's. probably some completely. not understood ancient technology. I'm. I'm not discounting it. I'm just I'm. just wondering. >> Well, I like the fact that you're. skeptical even though you have the. craziest story of all time. >> [laughter]. >> But it's. it's speaks to your integrity. It really. does because you're not a guy who. believes cookie So, for you, a guy. who doesn't believe cookie is a. hard rational scientist who is an. engineer who's done things like put a.

rocket engine in the back of a. Honda and then or a hydrogen powered. Corvette and then you go and see these. things you're like, "Wait, what what the. is this thing you have in this. hangar?". >> technology. >> Right. Nothing else. Right. So, I mean, to hear. something like that, it's Do you think. that that. that actually exists? I don't know. Um Graham Hancock is. convinced it exists. It's very carefully. guarded and these people have been. guarding it for centuries. >> it's just it's throughout history,

right? So, I mean, there's too many. missing pieces of the puzzle to really. say one way or another. I don't think. there's a right. >> mythology or an actual. >> Right. But it is weird that he's talked. to these people. They have these. cataracts and these people all say the. same thing. They die. The people that. are designed or that are designated to. be the curators of this. particular religious. >> I relate this back to the I think I told. you the first time we met, you know, if. somebody found a nuclear reactor Right.

back at that time, you know, and they. took it apart they just would drop dead. Right. >> the radiation. Yeah, magically from. that. And anybody that came in to check. on them would also die and they go, "This is evil. evil. It's cursed or whatever.". >> Or and something that you're not. supposed to have access to because it's. divine. >> Yeah, right. Could this be something at. another level? Yes. That I have to say. and I I mean, I'm no one to say it, but.

I struggle with divine stuff because I'm. like it this this craft or this. technology I mean, our phones to. somebody a thousand years ago would look. like some divine object. I mean, it it's. technology to us. So, we have to be very. cautious in like I I'm not saying there. is no divine something. Maybe there is, we don't know, but I think technology. really could mask itself as divine power. or. or. divine energy itself could be technology.

taken to its final form. That's that I'm open to. Well, if you. think about what we're talking about. with sentient AI, an AI that has the. ability to make better versions of. itself, what happens if it's left alone. Yeah. for a thousand years to do this? Well, what do you have? You have. something that can harness the power of. the universe itself. It has access. zero point energy, can do whatever I. mean, has a complete understanding of. quantum quantum entanglement, complete.

understanding of how the universe. functions, how it was created. I mean, there's new theories that believe that. the entire universe itself exists inside. of a black hole. They're trying to. figure out whether or not there were. ever was a big bang or if it's a. continuous cycle of things existing. inside black holes. So, where where. where do you think we are? What do you. think this is? I think it's a process. I. think we're we're at a stage of a. process. Our problem is we have. ideology, we have. we have dogma, we have ego, we have.

people that are smarter than most. people, but want to think that they have. all the information and I don't think. they do. And then we have open-minded. people that are curious, but don't want. to look like kooks and they're all. trying to figure it out while we're. making a digital god while these. weirdo on the spectrum eggheads. >> are literally manufacturing our own god. >> Right. Right. >> [laughter]. >> We are. We are. If that and you you. extrapolate, you go from where it is. now, you think about the exponential. increase of technology. Well, where does.

that go? It kind of goes divine. I mean, that might be what God is. We want to. think that God is a thing that exists. It just exists, it created everything. Maybe we make God. >> yeah. Yeah. All right, we're on the same. channel, yeah. I I think we created we I. think we created God. I think human. curiosity and the this thirst for. innovation is all a part of it. I'll say something about the technology. cuz it always fascinates me. I mean, I.

spent four years with Bob and I had to. build it in a virtual environment, so I. kind of had to think about it while I'm. doing it, but if you really think about. what this technology that you saw does. it essentially creates this artificial. field of whether it's artificial maybe. it's natural. Maybe it's a natural. field, but it creates a field that we're. not familiar with and that field I mean, Joe, you saw the movie there was a test. that was done in the lab that froze a. candle flame. Right, right. But the but the photons are still.

visible within our realm here outside of. the field and you're still seeing the. photons, yet it looks like it's frozen. To me is the is this is that technology. like a black hole? Is it some type of. time stop? And they and it it basically gives us. the power to utilize time in our. advantage. If you think about.

progression in technology, anything we. do, it takes time. Anything takes time. Whether it's computing power where now. we're seeing quantum computers do things. that they're faster and faster and they. could do a trillion processes in an. instant and Japan is going coming up. with better and then China. But because everything has to do with. how long does it take to do that? Right. If a technology can make you bypass time. it's like the record player playing. music, but you're you're now able to.

lift it lift the little pin on the. record and move it to wherever you want. >> Yes. That's a good way to describe it. >> Right? And now at that point time is in. your hands. And if we have a technology similar to. what you saw because you always said. gravity is a control gravity and time. >> yeah. It it's interlocked, right? >> and time are interlocked. >> Exactly. So, if that's interlocked, then. we have to look at it not just as a.

propulsion system or some type of cool. weapon. but how is it affecting time and how can. we use that to our benefit to evolve. sorry, to evolve faster? Because again the faster we can compute, the faster we could do something, the. faster we're evolving. And if we could. lift that needle and bring it faster to. get there to get somewhere, why not use. it? Or should I mean should we be. allowed to do that? Austin our current.

form. >> Yeah, I know. I. >> [laughter]. >> Like I said, I'm I'm not exactly on our. side anymore. Well, that was one of the. Do you remember Jamie who discussed the. way they were describing the use of some. of this alien technology as. instantaneous. weapon deployment systems? I I'm not. sure we should be trusted with this. stuff. >> Right. No, really. Well, you think about. what we're doing in Iran right now, you. would say no. Yeah. Yeah, I would I.

would say no for sure. >> over patches of dirt and bombing the. out of. >> No, imagine if we had something a a a. million times that power. Um. Really, humans should not. be trusted with that. >> Right, we got to trust it to AI. That's. why we're making it, Bob. This is [laughter] This is getting. scary. Yeah, it is getting scary. It is. But it's it's not science fiction. anymore. >> no no it's not I mean we're making fun. of it now, but no this is this is.

dangerous stuff and I'm. you know, I'm sorry for the people who. think this is all a joke. It's not. This. is real. And um. I'm really not sure we should be trusted. with this. That's maybe why for 40 years. or 60 years people have agreed to keep. it quiet. >> I would agree. >> And and um. Well, that's the most logical. conclusion. >> Yeah, this is incredibly dangerous. stuff. And again, it's a world. dominating technology. And I I don't.

know what to do with it other than to. keep it from people. So, and how do we know if it comes out. something I always struggle with is. let's say they they let's say we do get. an a. some some type of thing saying, all. right, we we have to see it from. somebody in the government, the. president, whoever that says, okay, here. we are, we have this. Well, first of. all, we have to validate it. The. journalists are going to The whole world. Nobody's going to say The media is not. going to just trust somebody saying. that. They're going to go, okay, wait a.

minute. What are you talking about, right? So, it's not like because. somebody says it, we just have to. swallow it. It's like, all right, go. Show us, right? And then when you do. that, well, now you're exposing. something else. What do we What What. happens when we need to believe it? Like. as as a as a as people, what do what has. to happen for me to believe something. that somebody says? There really has to be something serious. that makes me believe it. Right.

>> You know what I mean? Like some if a. president or anybody, prime minister, whoever it is says something to me, I'll. still go like, okay. I mean, show me. Right. >> they when they show it, how do I know. that's actually that? Think about that. Yeah. Right? And then. from there, we now have to go to another. level of okay, well, if we have to prove. it, we have to bring in scientific. community. Okay. That means they have access to it. What's the security parameters there?

Right. And then you get. compartmentalization. Right. And then that stops any sort of. an understanding of And that's why you. have this stigma this stick this. stagnation of where you've got these. people working on this thing for decades. and not making any progress. Do you know. how far we could have gotten if there. was free discussion between all the. groups working on this? Right. Yeah. But. then you also have these psychos. like from Dr. Strangelove that want to. turn it into a nuclear delivery system. Yeah.

So, where you don't have to worry about. them detecting nuclear bombs headed. their way, you just instantaneously. devastate Moscow in one shot. You don't have to take credit for it. Yeah, but we'd. Right. [laughter]. No, it's like we are not ready. Right. Yeah, and I know we're not ready, but. we'd be more advanced if we did that. No, I I mean I I agree that I agree with. that. But um. It's all very strange and no one knows. more strange than you.

Uh like No, there are plenty of people. that know more strange than me. I mean, Dennis knew more strange than me. Anybody above him knew that. I just knew. a small part of it. >> But you out of all the people that can. talk about it that are out there. communicating about it, you have. actually seen it physically. >> Yeah, I I I try to only talk about what. I I've seen and touched and verified. I've heard plenty of other stuff that I. don't know if it's true or not. And. there's no sense in repeating that. Because nonsense moves at the speed of.

light these days. >> Right. Yeah. It does. And that's that's. just it's terrible. You live in a weird. existence, Bob. You really do. Because. you're you know, you've been holding on. to this. You have this experience from. 40 years ago that's just. become a part of. folklore. It's become a part of the. zeitgeist. Like this is why your podcast. that we did is the most watched podcast. I've ever done. This resonates with. people in a way that Look, I've done a.

lot of UFO ones. I had Travis Walton on. I've had a lot of people that have. stories. They're all very interesting. They don't get nearly the amount of. traction that yours does. And I think. it's because you're uniquely credible. You're uniquely credible in the fact. that you are very skeptical. You're not. interested in like these fantastic. ideas. You're you're very dismissive of. nonsense. But yet you have this burden. Like you actually. physically touched these things. and went inside of them.

>> I mean, I was fortunate enough to have. this really unique job. That that's. about it. And I am fascinated with the. technology. But that's where it stops. I'm not interested interested in anybody. else's story, although everybody has to. email me and you know, I I understand. it, you know, they're looking for. somebody Hey, I saw this thing out when. I was out on my boat and then you know, what is it? I don't know. You know, I mean, they're. [laughter] they're they're they're. they're just looking for something and. that's like I don't know, maybe it was.

Venus or something and. Oh my god, you suck, you know, you work. for the government, you [laughter] know, and it's like Dude, I'm just looking for. a prosaic explanation and and um. you know, but I only know what I saw and. I touched for myself. And everything. else, even in official government. documentation, it's just words on paper. I don't know if that stuff is true. So, you got to draw the line there. Yes. But. um you know, I know what I what I did. see, I know for a fact. And there is no.

way you can tell me that that's not. real. Yeah. I I mean, I I have to say in. having worked with him and having you. know, inadvertently, there's no way that. myself or people on my team weren't. trying to dig deeper and find Maybe. there's a prob- Maybe there's going to. be a gap. Maybe we'll find something. wrong with the story. Cuz we we went we. went very deep. We had to build S4. We.

had to build the sport model. And. there were things that happened over the. years, things that he had said to us. before we had built it that there's no. way he could have known because there. was physicality, real things that we. built. When you build something in a 3D. environment, you're actually building a. real world. It's got light bounce and. refractions like the real world. Like. when you turn on the light, it does the. same thing. If a material has a sheen,

you see it. It's literally the same. thing. It's just computing power that. gives you access to another world. And. he mentioned things that were absolutely. impossible to know. Like what? One of the things that got. two things really. convinced me. One of them was in the interior of the. craft. You had said to us it was very. dark in there. And while Bob is explaining to us the. this interior of the craft and many time.

he kept repeating it was really dark in. there. And so, at a certain point he says, as. I'm crawling in, there's like these. extension cords. And I remember going, extension cords? Like I it that hadn't. computed. And he's like, yeah, they had. lights in there. And I'm thinking, it's. true. I mean, there's no light switch. inside this big thing. It's 50 52 ft. It's big. And so, he said, yeah, there. were two big industrial yellow. industrial lights with four spots each.

pointed up. And so, we decided to make. those. We decided to research the type. that were used back then in the United. States, especially on military bases, the halogen power cuz it was halogen in. 1988. And we turned them on. And it was. still dark. >> And it was super dark. And I remember. Christopher Mattel, by the way, a big. shout out to Christopher Mattel that's. on my team who made a lot of those. visuals and he's like a magician. He's. He's the best. He He's there and I I said, Chris, turn. on the lights cuz we have to film in the.

craft. And he's like, they're they're. on. I said, they're not on. I can't. see anything. He's like, they're fully. on. And I said, well, that that doesn't make. any sense. It's so dark in there. I. remember thinking, >> light in there. >> we upped the power of the light so that. you could see more. And it was still. dark. And I thought, what the hell is. happening? I goes, is there a bug? Is it. Is there something wrong? He goes, no, I. don't know. It's It's It's absorbing the. light in there.

We had to up the light intensity on. those tripods by 20-fold. in order for you to see the visuals you. see in our film. Otherwise, it would be really dark in. that craft. >> So, how did you compute that? Like what. what what parameters did you establish? So, what you do is you're you're inside. a 3D environment. You're an actual a. three you're in a 3D world. Now, we're. inside the craft that is 52 ft in. diameter. It's we bring a camera in.

there. So, we were filming the whole. film was was done with the Blackmagic 6K. cams. So, we would bring our Blackmagics. in the 3D environment. You can actually. set that so that we could film inside. the craft so matches the filming of of. our real cameras. And so, the as soon as the camera's on, it's the same lens, it's the same. aperture, everything is as you would. have it. And so, you're trying to adjust. for this dark room. But if the room is really dark, you.

can't really get a good look at it cuz. if you go close enough, you would have. seen like a seat and a little bit of the. reactor, but you would have been like, "What's the black screen I'm looking. at?". >> So, what is the explanation for why it's. so dark? It's just the way the light. reflects on the And that is exactly. Yeah, it's when you're in that space, exactly. >> here's the question. Like, what what are. you when you're making this in a. computer model? Right? What are you. putting in that would make it absorb. light that way? >> I didn't do that. So, what we did is.

we spent over a year with Bob. I I'm not. I'm not kidding. It was like a year of. trying to figure out the material of the. craft, the the actual skin of the craft. That was the hardest thing to do in. >> clarity and the reflectivity of the. actual material. Yeah. And then when the lights are in. there, they just reflect at a weird. angle, and it never gets bright in there. unless you have. tremendous amounts of light in there. It's always dark.

>> And and sorry to interrupt, but that. would have been So, when when that. happened and we have the right material, which is like this let's call it. unpolished stainless steel. It's got a. little bit of usage to it just to give. it some texture. It's It's as It's got the same sheen, reflection, refractions of a real. material like that cuz every time we put. a fake light in there, okay, it's. reacting like that. And now you turn these big halogen. lights on and it's like the part of. where the halogen is hitting the ceiling.

of the craft cuz they were turned. upwards. Remember you Bob said they were. not pointed like this. They were pointed. to the ceiling of the craft. So, you got. two of them. It's like wherever the light was going. was getting eaten up by that portion of. the material. So, it's not reflecting. all the way. So, you have a 52-ft. distance and it's being lost in a maybe. 7-8 ft diameter environment area where. the light is. And we're like, "Why is.

that happening?" But that's how it What. that's the reality. He could not have. known that if he if he's trying to make. that up. Anybody who's inventing a story says. there's two industrial light. with four hal- bright halogen spots in. there. A liar would not say it was really dark. in there. You don't know that. You have to build. it. Right. So, to me that was a.

physicality of being inside the craft. that made me go, "Lazar could not have. known that if he was making that up.". >> know it until you experienced it. >> Exactly. Right. So, I'm like, "Unless. Bob back then decided to go and in his. garage build himself a fake dome, which. I don't think you did." I'm like, "How. would he have known that?" We didn't. expect that. We were we were struggling. with, "Why is it so dark in there?". >> And you make films, so you're used to.

using lighting and. >> Exactly. And and Chris was like, "Dude, this thing is just eating up the light.". And I'm like, "Bob kept saying it's so. dark in there." And it just How How do. you How do you How is that possible? >> the other things? The other one. I laugh about this with Bob all the. time. It's about the flag. on the craft that you could have seen. it. >> remember. >> So, when he walked into the hangar the. very first time, he saw the very first time.

>> flag. >> he saw the craft and he saw the American. the reversed American flag sticker on. the craft. >> why it was reversed. I I'll get to that. in a sec. I think I know, but. whatever. I'll I'll I'll say what I. think. And. there's a lot of stuff I researched a. lot of stuff on Bob Lazar before I did. this, and there's a lot of bad. information out there. So, I I really I I really tell people if. you really want to see what he saw, don't go read what's out there. Check. this out cuz Bob actually vetted. everything, so it's not the wrong.

information read. But anyway, there's a. lot of detractors saying there's no way. Lazar could have seen that flag. If the. craft was that size and it was on the. hall on the on the craft shell, there's. no way the angle he's 5 something, he. wouldn't have been able to see it. So, we built it. We built a 52-ft diameter. craft. We put it in the hangar. It's. there. And my my team, Chris, gives me. the goggles, the ones I made you try on. And it's the very first time I go in. there. And I know the craft is there.

So, I put them on. And now they're. they're hoping cuz they're there with. with notes. They're hoping I'm giving. them all the notes of, "No, that's not. good. That's not good." And the first. thing I did is I looked to my right. I'm. looking at the craft. And I'm I asked uh Chris to put me at 5. ft 10, which is your height. So, I said, "At 5 10, I'm Bob's height with the. goggles. I want to see.". And the first thing I said is, "Oh, it's. There it is.". And they're like, "There what is?" I said, "The flag." And.

they thought I was pointing at a flag on. a wall. And they're like, "There's no. flag in the hangar." I said, "No, on the. craft." And they're like, "Yeah?". I said, "You can clearly see it.". It was clear. That was something that. also made me go, "Yeah, this is this is. it. This is the real size." So, had Bob Lazar not actually seen that, the majority of the the detractors out. there kept saying there's no way at that. angle a human eye could see a sticker on.

the top of the craft, which is on the. top shelf. >> Mhm. But you can. It's as clear as day. So, those were two things that I considered. to be like, you know, it's there. So, I know to may- maybe. some people that's not a lot, but as a. person like I am who's very technical, I'm very. I'm super difficult. It took a long time. to do this cuz I'm a perfectionist, and. I wanted to make sure it was accurate to.

what he saw. I look at stuff like that because I. analyze everything like that. And I I analyzed his story inside out. >> you couldn't see the flag from that. position, it would it would be a red. flag. Yeah, that would have been a red. flag for me. I would have been like, "Wait, you can't see it." But you can. So, you can't you can't put. enough of a value on little details like. that. because he didn't say this in 2026. He. said this in 1989. Right.

Why? >> Why do you think the flag was reversed? In American uh flag use law, the the the. the only thing we were able to. ascertain is the fact that on military. or on vehicles, anything military on a. on a uniform, if ever you see an. American flag on your right shoulder, it's reversed because it's how the wind. is blowing the flag. On your left side, it's like the flag is because the wind.

is blowing this way. If you look at. [clears throat] vehicles, uh let's say a. Greyhound bus, they have American flags. on each side, and they have a normal one. on the left one on the left side and a. reversed on the right side because it's. the right side of the vehicle. So, it's. a blowing it's blowing in the flag. >> the flag that way. So, the reversed. American flag is a is a is a actual. uh. it's the law of how to use the flag in. the United States military or on.

vehicles. And it has to be like that on. the right side. So, to to say, "Is that. the right side of the craft?" Yeah, it. must be. >> be because if you go into the craft, the. seats when you're when you go into the. craft I I can't wait for you to go in. the craft. When you go inside, the seats are facing. the right side, meaning. the hatch is the right side of the. craft. It's the only thing that came to. mind. I mean, is that what the they did.

at S4? They put a sticker on it? I mean, it's the only logical thing we. could think of is that's why it was. there. Mhm. I don't know. I'm. you know, my other my other because if. it was an American fla- if it was just. for identifying this is America, why would you reverse it? Right. Right? You're reversing it because it's. indicating the direction which it. travels. Exactly. Wow.

That's just an interesting. >> Yeah. Right? It's all interesting. The The goggles is. a trip. When I put on the 3D AR goggles. and you you VR goggles rather and you. you stand in that. warehouse, that hangar, and look at it, it's very strange. It feels weird. >> like it was. It feels very weird. It. feels very weird cuz I I mean, I'm only. imagining what it's like to actually be. you in 1988 and be standing there. When.

you put the goggles on, that's exactly. how it was. What did What did Dennis say. when you first saw it? Was like, "Huh? Huh?". Like, [laughter] "Come on.". Dennis Dennis was hardcore. Yeah. >> He was Yeah, he was here. Look at that. You know, come back in here. I mean it. There was no reaction. Barry on the. other hand was out of his mind. He he. couldn't wait to show me stuff and you. know, he said, "Check this out. Oh my. god, that was that awesome." You know, but Dennis was uh. It was like a hardcore.

you know, military guy. How much of a view did you get of the. other crafts? Cuz it's one of the things. in the film, you only see like hints of. them. That was it. That's it. That's it. What you saw on the film was exactly. what it was. It was just a passing thing. and as I was walking out there going, "Wow, there's more. Everything looks. different." And. other than the the first two hangars, I. really couldn't tell what was past out. there, but there were other hangars and.

there were things inside them. But It's. also interesting that at the time in. 1988, this site was not even confirmed. This was like for you to have to know. about this and know the exact location. of it is kind of strange. Right. Now, Luigi did that. I mean, I gave him the. general idea. I said. you know, I know. what time I got out there and I could. see Papoose Lake and behind me. the hill. >> He pulled he pulled up a lot of stuff. from there. But another interesting. thing he pulled up was.

there was an old silver mine exactly. there. In the exact same place and I wonder if. they used that as the it was already. drilled. There was already, you know, corridors in there. >> I actually held this. for this show. What I'm about to say is. the first time ever. It's not even It. didn't make it in my film. I wish it. did, but it didn't make it in the film. Veronica at on our team, she's my. sister. She's like my right hand and I.

didn't If I didn't have her, I wouldn't. be here right now. She found this. and at a certain point we were looking. at the maps out there and we we You'll. see in my film that Gene Huff sent us. some US Department of the Interior. official maps of that environment at the. Groom Groom Lake Papoose Lake. But we weren't satisfied. We wanted to. go deeper. We said there's got to be. more and there's one map. in. that is a publicly available map. It's.

super not easy to find, by the way, that is in the hands of the US. Department of the Interior. I could get it to you if you want. I can. email it to you. That map is the oldest map of Papoose. Lake known in the hands of the. government that is that is public. domain. That map and everybody's going to be. listening to this. clearly shows a road that goes right. into where S4 was.

is. It doesn't show a road near it. It shows. a road going right in the mountain. And they removed it. That map is from. 1941. Okay? Right after that, the map is 1950. and 1952 and those roads were removed. But the the late the oldest map we ever. found, it's going to be available. We're going to post it on our website. It's going to be everywhere.

It shows. clear as day a road that goes right into. the mountain exactly where Bob Lazar. said S4 was. So, do you think that was. the road to the silver mine initially? >> Yes, I believe that yeah. I believe It. makes sense that they would use an. existing facility and just enlarge it. instead of start from nothing. Right, of. course. Especially if it's abandoned. Yeah. Yeah. And it also makes sense that if Roswell. was real and if they really did. find a crashed UFO in 1947.

like in the 1950s they'd be like, "Let's. get rid of this road.". Right? >> Yeah, if we're putting this out there, if we're building this facility out. there. And if they did have it, that. also makes sense that they worked on. this for decades. You come along in. 1988, they've got this happening in the. 1950s and it's still there. Yeah. Yeah. I think what happened is when the. CIA took over cuz CIA is the one took. over area They're the ones that Area 51. I think what happened is as they took. over, they just removed the the road.

It wasn't even because there was a UF. a flying saucer there. I I just think. they got in there, took control of that. terrain, that whole landscape and said. "Remove it off the maps." Because it's. there prior to them taking ownership of. that land. So, I mean. it's clear that there was a road there. and then they came in, CIA said take it. out and S4 might have had already an. installat Not it wasn't an installation,

but they probably had a a tunnel in. there already because they were it was a. mine. So, it was an easier way to build a big. facility in the in the side of the hill. Makes sense. It does make sense. And. then there's also the images that you. got of what looks like the hangar bay. doors that are camouflaged. And I have. to say that Got to go again? Yeah. Sorry. No worries. I'm That's all good. That. >> [laughter]. >> Technology will fix that. It'll remove your prostate.

>> [laughter]. >> Turn you into a alien. Um so, though the that image that you. got um of the unfortunately it's kind of. blurry, but it you do see something that. looks very similar to what you'd expect. to be camouflage garage bay doors. I got. contacted by a guy called Scott. Mitchell. And I was getting contacted by. everybody, Joe. Everybody everybody was. trying to get in in find getting to make. me work with them or use something they.

found. So, I was I was ignoring 95 99%. of people's like It's getting tiring. Everybody's like, "You got to listen to. me. I know stuff about that." I'm like, "Whatever. I'm working with Bob Lazar. I. I have enough right now.". But this guy we had built the base. And I knew exactly where it was. I knew. exactly the layout. And this guy he not. only contacted me, but he sent me an. image that he had that he had drawn. He. didn't want to send me the real what he. had found, but he says, "Here it is. This is where the doors are and this is.

exactly where they they point to.". I looked at the image and I said. "Not bad." I mean, he really nailed it. in the image and I thought "Okay." I I I. at first I thought somebody on my team. leaked something we had. To be honest, I'm like, "Ah, who did that? Who sent. out one of our renders to somebody?" And. cuz that's what I thought. And they're. like, "No, no, no. This is what?" So, I. I. I. talked to this guy and. he's a he's really really good at.

researching and he ended up becoming. probably one of the best I've ever like. he's one of the best I've ever seen. His. name is Scott Mitchell. And he says, "There are pictures that. were taken in 2020." And they ironically. those pictures were taken on December. 25th, 2020, which is Christmas Day. in the middle of COVID. Which means the base might have been. shut down. If you think about that, you know what I. mean? Like it's COVID. It's like in the. heat of it. Plus it's 20 It's 20 It's. 25th of December. So, there's probably.

nothing going on there. And this private. uh. pilot in in a small Cessna requested. access inside the perimeter. and they granted him permission. And he had a big Nikon camera on board. with a big telescopic zoom and he took a. ton of pictures and they're. amazing. They're all public. They're all. available. You can download them. And there's this these pictures of. Papoose Lake and the hill. But they were. being used on the internet for a long.

time. Everybody was like, "See, Bob. Lazar is is a fraud. It's not real. There's nothing there.". Well, of course you can't see it. It's. First of all, it's 17 mi away and. secondly, they're not designed for you. to see it. And that also let's talk. about something that Bob was talking. about in 1988. The picture was taken in. 2020. I mean, there could be. That's could be a different landscape. now. Anyway. So, he said, "Look, this image if you change. the contrast, you got to keep the. original, but just move and try to.

extract data from your image." You know, anybody who knows how to use that do. that with photography, you can do that. And he and he pulls out these this this. geometric these geometric shapes. You. could see them. They're they're like. little They look like rectangles. And I thought. "What if this is not real?" I I'm I was. super skeptical. I'll be honest with. you. I wasn't I'm We're talking about. the the picture with the doors on the. the hangar doors the hangar doors, the.

one from Scott Mitchell, the one that we. have in the film. All right, right. And. uh. And so I I I didn't believe it. I. thought there's no way. I go, "There's. no way this is real. I I I don't believe. it." So, Scott was really cool. He said, "Look, man, I I understand you're. skeptic. I get it. I want you to do me a. favor. Go online. Search it yourself. I won't. even tell you where it is. I'll just. tell you what who who took the pictures. E The The only thing he gave us is the. picture number is 0501. That's what the.

picture number is. He goes, "If you find. it, have what whoever on your team play. around with it until you see it." That. was fair cuz I said, "Okay." Cuz I mean, if it's if it's out there, there's two. different places it was. on online and the one place we got it. from was the source of it, okay? Was the. from the photographer, the guy himself. We take it. I had three different people. on my team. Everybody's really good at. all this stuff on my team. So, I said,

"Guys, this is what we need to see. If you guys. could pull it up, I I I'm I'm not going. to be a skeptical. Everybody got it. almost in the same time. They were. playing around and eventually the the. easiest software we used to get that. detail out was DaVinci Resolve. And with. DaVinci, it's a faster process than if. you're messing around with Photoshop or. whatever. And it came and I was like, "Oh my god.". It it it's it's really there. You could. clear So, what I did is I had them scan.

the rest of the picture because it's. pixels, right? So, I said, "Let's also. see if it's not some pixel pixelation. Is it maybe just what the photo does? Maybe we just got lucky and it looks. like that there. Maybe it's going to. show something similar elsewhere." And. it doesn't. And then I said, "All right, go get me 0502. I want 0500. I want". because the guy kept snapping pictures. I want you to do the same Like we went. really military. Like I said, "I want to. make sure this is this is real. I don't.

I'm not going to put our name on this if. it's not." And then it ended up being. other pictures also show it, by the way, cuz he he went click click click. So, it's like it's not just that one. That's. the clearest one. And so, I was at a. certain point I go to Bob's house and. I'm sitting there and the guy. calls me. Scott Mitchell calls me and he. he has no idea I'm with I'm with Bob. Lazar. So, I pick up. It's a video call. And he goes, "Hey, man, what's going.

on?" I said, "Well, look." I said, "Look. who I'm with." And he just like exploded. cuz he was like, "Oh my god, you're with. Bob." And I said, "Show him." And so, Bob was there and we showed it we ended. up transferring the call on a on a Zoom. call. And he showed it and you said, "Yeah." Like I remember you going, "Yeah, that's it." Yeah, yeah, that. What did that look like to you when you. saw those images? >> that was that was awesome. >> Yeah. >> It was awesome. What what was really. shocking was the first hangar was. bigger. Yeah. >> And that's what we discovered. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah, cuz the first hangar is the big. hangar and there's a bunch of smaller. ones. And I said, "Jesus, the first. hangar is bigger. You You found it. You. found it." So, I mean, that that was I I. just lit up at that point. >> it was. >> What happens if you look at that site. with Google Earth? That is with the Google Earth. >> No. No, that was the picture, but Google. Earth but Google Earth and I'll tell you. something about Google That that was the. >> That wasn't with the Google Earth? >> No, the the picture is a real photo. The picture of the hangar doors is a. real photo.

>> I said that was Google Earth. >> No. No, the picture is a real photo. The. Google Earth, though, you see that in. the film. >> Yeah. I can't make this up. I didn't want to. put anything in the film. That was one. of my things. I did not want to put. anything in the film that would make me, the whole team, or even Bob look like. we're trying to like. MacGyver some something in there. It has. to be you go look for it yourself. It's. public. If you don't believe it, go. check it out yourself. I That's how. That's what was That's the only thing we.

allowed in there. And. when you go on Papoose Lake, on June 20 So, June 22nd of 2024, June of 2024, Google Earth changed. There's you're. you're going to be right over Papoose. Lake. If you zoom in, you're you're not. going to notice it cuz it it's kind of a. yellowish a tint to the to the image. And I remember going, "Why is it so.

yellow?" I mean, I'd been there so many. times. I was like, "Why Why it. turned so yellow?". And I'm like I saw I I'm zooming out and. I'm like, "Why did they it up?" I. thought they ruined everything. It's all yellow. And as I go further, you see this box that is like right over. Papoose. So, I'm like, "What is that?". And I put my mouse over it and wherever. you're in the box, it's June 22nd, 2024. And as soon as you put your mouse.

outside of the box, well, it's an older. date. And I thought, "Oh, they just did that.". And the mis- So, I think what they. thought they were going to do. is that new filter right over Papoose. Lake removes every possible detail on. the terrain the landscape. Where the brushes are and the the Joshua. trees are. It really really removes all. that. >> everything. >> It blurs everything out. But it makes.

they made a mistake. They made a huge. error. I believe so. And I think if. they're listening, they're going to go, "Yeah, our bad." To the to the DoD cuz they're. going cuz you see all the tracks on the. lake. It for some reason that filter. accentuates the tracks on Papoose Lake. and removes the landscape brushes for I. don't know why. It just did that. And I. was like, "Holy you see all these. tracks." What it looks like is they're.

trying to purposely obscure the area. >> Yes. And the fact that it's in a very. clear box. >> Yeah. And you talked about that in the. film. And it's kind of bonkers. >> And what's crazy. >> no reason. >> There's no reason. >> one little square box out of Why? Why? That nobody goes to, right? Yeah. So, they tried to obscure it. Yeah. Yeah. Why would. >> I thought, "Jeez, dude, we got to put. this in there. I mean, it's so cool, right?" It's all very compelling. Um. I think we should wrap this up, but uh.

the film's excellent. Thank you. >> Congratulations. You can tell it took a. tremendous amount of effort. And uh I. could tell by watching you watch it when. we watched it together that it had an. insane impact on you. It it really. affected me. >> before I saw it with you. So, you're. just seeing it again. It's just like. it's bonkers. Yeah, it it really. affected me. And uh. is Is there anything else you want to. say? There's a couple things I want to. bring up. >> Okay. >> You know. >> Yeah. Um.

Just because I stuff Luigi has told me, people think that I make millions of. dollars off of this stuff. >> [laughter]. >> Oh, yeah. And I don't. I would I would. love to sign on to the millions of. dollars program. [laughter]. Um you know, Jeremy made made his movie. and I didn't get a cent from Jeremy's. movie. I said, "Anything you make, give. to George." Um. you know, it Luigi has spent millions of. dollars of his own money, literally, right? >> Literally.

>> know, making this stuff. And I can't see. how he's ever going to make the money. back. If he does, that's awesome. I. drive a uh 1980-something. uh. >> Not a 1980. You drive a. >> No, 19. >> 2018 No, a 20 2018 Chevy Bolt electric. car. I mean, it's a car you'd buy for. your teenage daughter. It's embarrassing. to drive. It cost me $18,000. You know, my house on the 10 acres cost.

450 grand. And you know, back when I. when I got it, I mean, that's that's I. work 6 to 7 days a week at United. Nuclear, my business. I mean, if there's. anyone that wants to give me millions of. dollars, please [laughter]. contact contact me immediately because I. would like to retire. But but no, I. don't make millions of dollars off this. stuff. And uh I. I my my wife and I do fine. We grow our. food in our greenhouse and we live in.

our little place up in the mountains and. that that that's it. But I um you know, this is Luigi's thing. That's why he's. here. I think the film's going to be. very successful and I think you're. probably going to make money off of it. At least I'm hoping. >> he'll make money off it. >> Well, >> [laughter]. >> he'll make money off of it. >> I Thank you, Joe. Um. I think we should wrap it up. Thank you. very much, Luigi. Knocked it out of the. park. >> you. >> It's fantastic. Bob, great to see you. again, as always. I'm sorry I had to pee. so much. That's okay. >> [laughter].

>> It's understandable. It's. understandable. And uh again, the film. uh let's show it on the screen, Jamie, so people can know uh where they could. see it when they. when it's available. >> Yeah, it's available actually as of. right now. Let's play the trailer. We'll we'll. we'll end it with. >> let's do that. S4 The Bob Lazar Story. We'll end it with a trailer. It's on Amazon and uh We Are Not Alone. >> Not Alone, right?

Physical evidence now exists which. proves that there is life elsewhere and. at least one form of that life has been. here. As of 1989, that evidence was in the. custody of the United States government. Between December of 1988 and April of.

1989, I worked as a senior staff. physicist in what has to be the most. secret project in history. My job in this program was to be part of. a back-engineering team. >> [music]. >> This particular disk appeared to be in. excellent condition and because of its. sleek appearance, I nicknamed it the. sport model. The goal in this program was to see if. the technology of the disk could be. duplicated with Earth materials.

To start up the reactor, of course, we. need [music] some element 115. In fact, you need 223 g machined into a. wedge like this. The program at Area S4 [music] consisted. of three projects: Project Galileo, Project Sidekick, and Project Looking. Glass. The file on top was [music] Project. Galileo. And as it turned out, that's. the project that I was part of. And that. clearly.

[music]. referred to. alien spacecraft. Just cannot be a secret from. from anyone, [music] not just the. American people, but the rest of the. world. All this stuff is something that. happened to him. It's not who he is. They're doing everything they can to. keep this information secret.

That's empirical evidence. I saw a craft. to do that, thanks to him. >> [music]. >> Help this story spills. And the world change. Bye. >> [music].