Joe Rogan Experience #2477 - Rick Perry & W. Bryan Hubbard

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe. Rogan experience. TRAIN BY DAY, JOE. ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. ALL DAY. GENTLEMEN, great to see Yeah, put them. on. Slap them on. What's happening? Good to see you gentlemen again. Taking off. >> well. One more time. Yeah, one more time. >> Yeah. So, what is the latest? Give me the latest. Where are we at? I'll let you take it, Brian. You just.

kind of. You You are the uh. You're the most current on where we are, what's going on. Man, there has been a. lot of stuff happen. in the 15 months since we were here. I. mean, like stunning amount of stuff. So, let's not waste any time. Tell them. where we're at. All right. Well, the. last time we came to visit with you, I. believe was on December the 27th of. 2024. We were just on the front end of having. organized 30 committed Texans whose own.

families had had experiences related to. trauma, addiction, alcoholism, and the. wounds of war. who, after hearing a plan that was. developed for the state of Kentucky to. bring ibogaine to the American people as. an FDA-approved medication and. breakthrough treatment for addiction and. trauma, committed themselves. to using their time, their talent, and. their network to achieve what had never. been done before. And that was to. convince an individual state to. undertake drug development to create a.

therapeutic medical breakthrough for. public health crises within its borders. that are representative of the national. reality. After you released the interview with us. on January 2nd, 2025, we pursued a five and a half-month. blistering campaign to convince 188. blank-slate Texas legislators. to fund. the single largest psychedelic research.

and medical development project in. history. That being the $50 million. Texas Ibogaine Initiative. We had the assistance of some in-state. allies, one of which was Texans for. greater mental health led by a dear. friend and brother of mine, Logan. Davidson, who was my right hand going to. meet with legislators continuously while. I set up shop at a hotel here in Houston. and lived here just about full time, wearing the shoe leather off, sweating, and making sure that everybody who. needed to be introduced, educated, and.

motivated to get behind this would do. so. At the end of this 5 and 1/2 months, we. secured the votes of yes of 181. out of 188 legislators between the Texas. House of Representatives and State. Senate. There was one individual who we had to. persuade at the 11th hour to get behind. this project. On May the 14th, 2025, just 36 hours before the Texas budget.

was finalized, this bill that would. create the first unified FDA drug. development trial with Ibogaine in US. history was not funded. I woke up that morning and I'm not some. I believe very much in keeping your. prayers in the closet as Jesus taught. and not getting out there parading about. it. But on that morning, uh I got a call and it was, "Hey, we're. getting to the 11th hour. We don't have. money to secure this. It may not make it. We've done.

everything that we can.". And I just I literally got down on my. hands and knees and said, "God, please let this happen. And if it cannot happen, help me understand why.". 3 hours later, I got a telephone call. asking if I could go and meet with the. Texas House Speaker and Lieutenant. Governor Dan Patrick. I went at 4:30 in the afternoon on May. the 14th and spent an hour with these. two gentlemen going back and forth about. what this project was, why it was so. existentially necessary for Texas and.

the country. And on Friday morning, May the 16th at. 10:00 a.m., we got a text message from. Lieutenant Governor Patrick confirming. that he would approve and fully fund the. Texas Ibogaine initiative. As we walk in here today, literally just. 10 minutes before we walked into your. studio, I can confirm. that the great state of Texas is going. to fully fund the Texas Ibogaine. initiative originally intended to be a.

public-private partnership, but now has. decided on its own. to commit a full $100 million. to launch the development of Ibogaine. all the way through the FDA's drug. development process for the benefit of. the American people. To do so on its own without any drug. development partner and to do it. for the good of humanity. That's phenomenal. So, what did you have. to say to Dan Patrick to convince him of.

this? And kudos to him for doing this. Well, I had some very wonderful advocates who. preceded my meeting. Was he skeptical? Oh, he was completely disengaged from. the process, highly skeptical as we. learned through intermediaries, but we. had two wonderful brothers on mission. who happened to be twins, Marcus and Morgan Luttrell. I know. Marcus very well. Marcus and Morgan. Luttrell reached out to the Lieutenant. Governor. They spoke to him very.

movingly and personally about their own. experiences with Ibogaine, what it had. done not just to save their lives, but what it was doing to save the lives. of war fighters who had come to the end. of being able to live. And as they explained to him what it did. for them and what it has done for their. brothers and sisters in arms who've. returned to war, to broken government. systems that. can do nothing. to cure what ails them at their core. He was persuaded to have an open-minded.

conversation. And through that. conversation on May the 14th, we. essentially went through what. science suggests, all the powers of the. most sophisticated molecule on the. planet, to resolve physiological. substance dependence and thereby create. psychology within the human being. whereby they believe they have ownership. of their selves and their future and. that that future will be one defined by. choice rather than compulsion. And the. most powerful aspect of the ibogaine.

argument, not just for the lieutenant. governor and house speaker, but for most. of these legislators who voted yes, is the experience endorsed by many that. ibogaine. confirms, without question, the reality of our individual human. divinity. And that is the greatest truth. conveyed by this fabulous plant. Uh well. put and I don't think it's just ibogaine. that confirms that. I think you could. say the same about many other. psychedelic drugs that are.

unjustly maligned and treated as if. they're an escape from reality. Uh but. in the interest of this being a. stand-alone podcast for people who don't. know what ibogaine is and don't. understand the efficacy of it and how. unbelievably effective it is. at especially treating addiction. Could. you please just go over that? Yes, sir. So, ibogaine is an alkaloid that is. derived from the iboga shrub. The iboga. shrub is.

uh originates in the central Congo. Basin. Its native country is modern-day. Gabon. It is the mother country of the. iboga shrub, which has been used for. centuries. in the spiritual and cultural traditions. of the Bwiti, a group of spiritualists who. include the Pygmies as well as the Bantu. tribes that live there in Gabon. In the early '60s, it was discovered. that ibogaine and iboga had a. significant interruption effect on.

opioid addiction. There was an. individual who had been addicted to. heroin for a number of years. They took. ibogaine and not only did they not. experience any withdrawal when they. stopped taking heroin, they stopped. having any desire to use any drug. whatsoever. This touched off 60 years. of open-label field studies that are. mountains high and decades wide that. firmly established that ibogaine has a.

unique and singular interruption. capacity on physiological substance. dependency, whether that's opioids, alcohol, methamphetamine, cocaine, or. tobacco. Recent evidence also suggests that it. has a significant interruption effect on. compulsive behaviors, anything that kind. of impacts that brain's dopamine system. and produces a rush. Particularly. gambling. Yes, sir. Now, in 2018, US Special Forces special.

operators started going to Mexico for. treatment of symptoms of traumatic brain. injury. expressed through treatment-resistant. depression, anxiety, and suicidality. Many of these veterans had gone through. the VA system. They had been given an unbelievable. amount of synthetic pharmacology that in. their end effect essentially. anesthetizes the soul and slowly. euthanizes the body, and they were at. the end. So, as they were going to. Mexico and would get ibogaine treatment,

they came back with these just. unbelievably. Um. just powerful recovery results that seem. too good to be true. So, there were some scientists at Stanford. University that were funded by a. philanthropist who wanted to understand. what was going on. And so, what we have. come to learn through uh Stanford. research study on traumatic brain injury. for vets is that ibogaine has remarkable. neuro-regenerative capacities on the.

brain that are unheard of in the annals. of Western science. And while information is still very. small in amount and preliminary, uh there are individuals who have had. ibogaine treatment for not just. traumatic brain injury, but for multiple. sclerosis, Lyme disease, Parkinson's disease, post-surgical complications related to. the removal of brain tumor who endorse. uh a restoration of functionality and an.

ability to live that are otherworldly. And as we recognize that the. opportunities to improve the human. condition at scale are multi-lifetime in. appearing, uh we believe that we have. found one of those. And if we're going to do justice to the. human species, it is incumbent upon us. to take what appears to be. a promising therapeutic improvement and. deliver it with speed through the US. medical systems. And that's what.

Governor Perry and I have founded. Americans for ibogaine to do, just that. Achieve the moon shot of our time. And. that is to bring ibogaine medicine to. the American people as quickly as. possible. Well said. And uh. thank you again, uh Governor Perry, because if it wasn't. for your involvement in this, I think a. lot of people would be far more. skeptical. You know, you being a former. distinguished governor of the state who. is a Republican, generally speaking, most people think of Republicans being.

anti-psychedelics. and that this whole thing is just a. bunch of people trying to escape reality. and poison their mind and you know, tune. out of society and become losers. That's. that's a the general consensus of people. that are. just. for lack of a better term, ignorant of. the effects of these substances. They. don't understand it. But if if it wasn't. for you your open-mindedness, your your. willing to your willingness to engage in.

this and try to understand it and to. speak to these veterans, I don't think. people would be taking it as seriously. Yeah. So, thank you. Well, and and and thank. you. Uh as I've as I watched you over the. last 15 months. um seem like every 6 weeks or so you'd. have a guest on here and you'd be. talking about uh ibogaine in particular. and what uh is is the the progress that. we're making. What comes up so often. >> Yeah. Well, and it should. It it it it. it it should because this truly I mean.

this is not what I came into the world. for. This is not what I came to politics. for. This is what, you know, I got led. to this through that relationship with. Marcus and in turn Morgan Luttrell and. seeing those two boys literally, particularly Marcus, on the doorstep of committing suicide. Uh when he came to live with us at the. governor's mansion in 2007. We had met. the year before just by the grace of. God. And I told him I said, "If you're. ever through Austin, come by and see.

me.". knowing that. chances of that would be pretty slim. Um. he knocked on that uh guard door. in May of '07 and said, "The governor. said if I was ever through here, come by. and see him." They called. I let him in for dinner. And my wife, who's a nurse, she. recognized this young man who was really. troubled. Uh addicted to opioids, masking it with alcohol, really sick. And for the next 2 and 1/2 years, he.

lived with us at the governor's. residence. >> Wow. And that started this long journey, uh literally, with uh. him and trying to find ways to heal him. We sent him to a host of different. places, Carrick Brain Center in Dallas. We sent him to. uh what's called now Axion, uh. Athletes Performance in those days, but. a a great rehab facility down in the. panhandle of Florida. Uh and and they.

helped him. uh conquer. or let helped him manage the opioid. addiction. I will suggest to you until. he. was treated with Ibogaine, which did. clean that completely away from him. uh some years later. But the point is. he really struggled. And he has become. like our son. As a matter of fact, I talked to him. this morning. He said, "Be sure and tell. Joe howdy for me." Yeah, he he just.

thinks the world of you, as well. Uh I. talked to his brother the day before. They understand how powerful this. compound is from the standpoint of. treating post-traumatic stress, uh. traumatic brain injury, addictions. Uh I mean, this. And and as I became convinced. I one of my the things that I will will. uh will say that I've been. I've been open to change, just like. criminal justice reform. In the early.

2000s, I was kind of like, "Lock their. ass up, throw the key under the jail.". You know, you break the law in the state. of Texas, here's how we treat you. And I had a. district judge in Fort Worth, John. Creuzot, a Democrat district judge, who I knew. and had been friends with. Um. he said, "Governor, we got a program. here that allows these individuals who. have broken the law, you know, they. maybe, you know, got caught with an.

illegal substance or what have you. And rather than sending them to jail, sending them to the penitentiary where. they become professional criminals, we give them a second chance. We put. them in a rehab program. We put them in. a treatment center. We put them in a. boot camp. You know, give give them. these options rather than sending them. to prison where they're going to become. professional criminals and the. recidivism rate is going to continue. on.".

You know, I'm kind of like, "Nope. I'm. I'm tough on crime.". That's what us Republicans do. But it really got me thinking. I mean, I'm. I am curious-minded about. concepts and ideas. So, that brought me. to having conversations and, you know, long story short, that single conversation led to. Texas leading the nation. with criminal justice reform.

Texas Public Policy Foundation that now. Secretary of Agriculture Brooke Rollins. was operating in the the mid to to late. 2000s. They came on board, saw this, supported it. We passed it through a. very Republican, very conservative. legislature. And Texas led the nation. in criminal justice reform. Saved us. billions of dollars. We stopped building.

prisons. We stopped sending people to. prison where they were becoming. professional criminals. So, that. template, if you will, was what we took to Donald Trump in. 2018. And. he was just like me initially. I'm tough. on crime. I'm. But he was open. He was curious. Brooke Rollins, interestingly, had come. up and was his uh.

domestic policy advisor at that time and. she made the pitch and he was open and. that conversation led to him being open. to federal criminal justice reform. And today there are people who. I mean, you know, you may have different ideas about. President Trump and what have you. I. know that's the case, but on this issue. of criminal justice reform this man was. curious, he was open-minded, and he's. made a real difference in people's lives.

following the Texas model. The reason I. share that with you as a example. that's where. I was on. these compounds, these drugs, these. psychedelics. I mean. I grew up in the '60s. Timothy Leary using LSD, marijuana, any. of that kind of stuff. I mean, it was. anathema to me. Absolutely and totally. I don't have. anything to do with it. This is crazy.

stuff. You get in trouble, they'll throw. you in jail, you'll jump off of. buildings. I mean, you Right. >> every story that you can imagine. that people And then think about. from the '60s forward. how you know, I went into the Air Force. They you know. we we took drug test at least monthly. Um so the idea of of being involved with. a drug was just totally and absolutely. not on my radar screen. These these are.

bad things. And we're reinforced in the. '80s with Mrs. Reagan. Just say no to. drugs. Here's your brain on drugs. I. mean, we have been browbeat as a society. for 60 years. And when you add to it. what Nixon did, President Nixon did in. the late '60s, early '70s, with his uh. war on drugs, he hated hippies, he hated blacks, and. one of the ways you could go after them.

was to go make these compounds schedule. one, which he did. Schedule one says, "There is no medical purpose for it, and. it is highly addictive.". Ibogaine fits neither of those. Ibogaine. is not an addictive compound by any. stretch of the imagination. >> absolutely not a recreational compound. >> at all. >> It's not something that someone can do. at a party. >> We are proving without a doubt. to the Texas legislature, to. legislatures across this country, in.

Mississippi, in Tennessee, in Arizona, West Virginia, that it does have a. medical purpose, that there are some. extraordinary things that can happen for. their citizens who have PTSD, who have. sexual trauma, who have uh addictions. I. mean, saving lives by the thousands, hundreds of thousands, I will suggest to. you, when this is approved across the. country and we see it as a a relatively. um.

easily studied and accessed by medical. care uh compound. So, that story. of seeing. these two young men. who have. given everything, literally, up to. willing to give their lives, and a lot. of their friends did, for our. freedoms and our liberties in this. country. And for us to say to them, "Oh, sorry,

you can't have access to this because, you know, they're, you know, President Right. Uh said this is bad. stuff back uh 60 years ago. And it was. taken off the shelf as a schedule one. drug, put over here, and for 60 years. Americans have suffered through. so many different. eras. The late 90s, when the Sackler family. and Purdue Pharma comes along. And we. literally I I I think one of the most.

demonic things I've seen in my public. life is this family who used OxyContin. and sold it to America. as this be-all, end-all. And then our. federal government in the in the. mid-2000s, we didn't know how to deal with these. young men who would be put in. these horrible conditions and positions. of being at war.

time after time after time, rotation. after rotation, tempos that we'd never seen before in. the history of mankind, I'll suggest to. you. I mean, Joe, we were at war for 20 years. 20 years during that period of time. There are There's, you know, special operators that were. deployed eight, nine, 10 times. And then they come home and the. government gives them a sack of of. opioids and and that makes them feel. crappy and they. mask it with alcohol and we sit around. and go,

"Why did Why did. Bobby kill himself?". Well, because the government. failed in its great responsibility to. take care of these young men and women, in my opinion. So, we owe it to them. As a matter of fact, a dear friend of. mine who just passed away. within the last 2 days. He'd worked with me for. gosh, 30 years. And when he first saw.

that uh uh. I was getting involved with this. psychedelic drug, this. ibogaine compound. And we were having a conversation. He. said, "You need to be really careful. with that, you know, you've got a great. reputation. You spent 40 years building. that reputation up." He said, "You don't. want to throw it away on some cockamamie. idea here.". And I told him, I said, "Well, I don't think I'm doing that. I've.

studied this. pretty intently. I've talked to a host. of different people. Um. and I said, "So, I'm I'm comfortable about the. science here that I'm that I'm seeing. and what have you and I think I think. it's worth. um going forward with.". I said, "Ray, their lives are not worth more than my. reputation. And that's uh that's what kind of. continues to drive me. There are people.

that still kind of say, 'Why are you. doing this?' Because I believe in it. I. mean, I believe it to the point, Joe, that I'm willing to. risk my reputation." This episode is. brought to you by BetterHelp. A lot of. people hit stretches where money gets. tight. And it's not just the bills, it's. the constant pressure, the mental load, the second-guessing of every decision. And honestly, one of the biggest. difference-makers isn't some perfect. budget, it's having a solid support.

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r e. I don't think you're risking your. reputation at all. I think that's. >> foolish thinking. Me, neither. >> it's people that don't understand the. times. Yeah. This is a different world. We're We're living in a We're living in. a world of information now, and you. can't go by these false narratives that. were adopted in the 1970s. Yeah. And. we're winning. I mean, I'm I'm telling. you what Americans for Ibogaine has. done. And you know, we started out I. tell people I said, you talk about a. small group of people. I think there.

were six of us. He's the CEO, I'm the. chairman. We got Dr. Ruland, uh, who's the the secretary, uh, Ann. Claire Stapleton, the communications. person, and then Marcus and Melanie. Luttrell, Marcus's wife, are the other two members. of our little board. And we were this. small little group kind of going along. and doing what we were doing. We were. successful in in the Texas legislature. and what have you. But it's exploded now. Uh, we have. ambassadors, uh, Americans for Ibogaine.

ambassadors all over, uh, the the United States now. This. People have seen what we've been able to. do in in Texas. Uh, Mississippi followed suit. They sent. their their governor a piece of. legislation. I want you to talk about. that. >> to do the roll call here in a minute. >> Yeah, and and just and and share with. with Joe and his audience just the great. uh, uh progress that's being made. Um. and and and quite frankly, we've out I.

think about Michael Dell when he was. selling computers out of the trunk of. his car back in the late '80s and and. and then his college dormitory. AFI kind of found itself like that um. just a few months ago. And I'm not trying to say that, you. know, we're Dell computer today, but we. are growing at such a leaps and bounds. and and you know, and having the. resources that we need to be able to put. our people in various places. I mean, he's the travels all you were in Cabo. I.

want you to tell them about the the. group that you met with Cabo and I mean. just 200 of these extraordinary people. down there. He travels all over the. country and you know, and we have to. have the resources to. uh to to be able to to do that and and. uh um you know, so I hope you're the. folks that are listening are, you know, go to Americans for a Better America and. you know how to tell them how to do that. and and help this organization because. this is what I'm going to do the rest of. my life. I'm 76 years old and uh this is what I I.

hope the Lord gives me a lot of years. to make a difference because I know for. a fact that what we're doing today, what. you're helping us with. is making a difference. And if we can. get these clinical trials to the. conclusion and you know, thank you to. the Lieutenant Governor and to the. Speaker for what they committed to. today. I mean, uh to to know that we're. going to be able to go forward now with. these clinical trials to show the world. exactly what we know, but but so that.

the the the naysayers out there, the. skeptic can look at that and go, "You. know what? You can get 85% of the people who are to. who are hooked on opioids clean in 72. hours." Isn't that amazing? >> such a stunning thing to me. Dr. Gall. Dolan, we were at South by Southwest. week and a half ago. She was sitting on the stage. She's an. MD PhD was at Johns Hopkins. She's over. at.

Cal Berkeley now and she gave a little. primer if you will on. the. different psychedelics. There's a. critical period that the mind opens up. and you're able to. to go in and and. and if you will the medicine treats the. mind I think for my Aggie, you know, non. pharmaceutical non scientific mind here, but to go in and repair reset the brain.

The technical word is neuroplasticity. But. ketamine. has a critical period. I think she said. 48 to 72 hours. Psilocybin has a critical period from. 14 to 28 days. I. I think I'm pretty close on these. But ibogaine. the critical period, the time when that.

neuroplasticity is active and the brain. can be trained, healed, reset is from 90. to 120 days. And then with the addiction opioids, which I happen to think is one of the. most addictive substances that's out. there. I mean, this is some horrible. stuff, you know, I you know, you. just very current event with Tiger Woods. and Tiger's accident and you know, he.

had OxyContin in his uh. I'm you know, I'm not judging here, but. I'm just kind of saying that may. when I when I was ran for president in. 2011, I'd had major back surgery in. July. I announced that I was running for. president in August. I had 6 weeks to. try to get over that major back surgery. and I had a a. terrible condition called. a neurological hyperfusion in my right. leg. I've never had a pain like that. Felt like a blowtorch going down my.

right leg. And they gave me Oxycontin. Uh. and I was taking that to cover up the. pain. I was taking Ambien to go to sleep. at night and then I was taking some. stuff called Provigil to. get back up in the morning and be. focused. I laugh about it now. Um. I'm I'm surprised I did as well as I did. in that presidential effort in 2011. Hell, forgetting that one thing. or that third thing in that debate. I. was going Hell, I'm I'm surprised I. could remember any of them. Knowing what.

I know now about Oxycontin and the. incredibly. nasty. addictive nature that it has. I mean, this stuff is just poison. And. I began. in. 48 to 72 hours after one dose. one oral application. of this compound. and that addiction is gone.

Not only is that addiction gone, Joe. But Stanford has done. functional MRIs on an addicted. opioid brain. and then treatment with Ibogaine and. they have shown that brain from the. the addicted look that those experts, those. post docs that look at this.

to a normal brain. A normal brain scan. in 72 hours. If you were to go through the normal. process of healing yourself. of. opioid addiction. through an abstinence program. it would take you 18 months and there. are very few I'm I'm going to say single. digit people that are successful in in. being able to do that. But think about. that. We got a compound here that has.

the ability. to heal people of opioid addiction. in 48 to 72 hours. and and. and we're not doing everything that we. can in our power to make that available? I mean what the hell's wrong with us? How bad you got to hate people. to not make that available? And with two doses it's even more. spectacular. 98% That is amazing. 98%.

That is truly amazing. There's nothing. even remotely like it with standard. practice addiction therapy. >> Nothing. Nothing. You know, he mentioned the Americans for. Ibogaine we have ambassadors and Joe. what you really helped us do on January. 2nd of 25 was create a movement. Our organization is the custodian of. that movement. We are a public policy. and advocacy organization and Governor.

Perry mentions keeping me on the road. wherever there are state leaders. citizens of conviction and influence. whether that is California, whether it's. Massachusetts or whether it's Alabama. We exist to plant the seed of a. scientific understanding of a public. policy framework and of a spiritual. understanding of the significance of. what we have in our hands here. An opportunity to improve the human. condition at scale. And while we have talked tightly about.

Ibogaine's impact on substance. dependency and upon the wounds of war. Our ambassadors reflect essentially the. universal human condition and the way in. which individuals who have tried every. way to overcome various forms of trauma. and debility. find as the last step. a redemptive restoration through. Ibogaine treatment. It is not for. everybody. It should not be a first. resort. It is an exceptionally powerful.

medication that comes with a series of. side effects that are highly unpleasant. as you previously mentioned. One of the selling points ironically in. the Texas legislature was to say, you. know, if your idea of a good time is. being in a state of semi-paralysis for. 12 to 16 hours and throwing up. continuously through the process, you're. going to have a real good time. And if there is the equivalent of being. brought to the judgment throne of God on.

this side of life, it is an Ibogaine. experience. That seemed to motivate a lot of support. especially for those who subscribe to. puritanical notions of punishment for. wrongdoing. That's not what I'm here to. advocate, but certainly. it is not fun. But what we know is that for instance, we have two fashion model twins. whose father sexually abused them for a. decade. And the results of that horrific.

experience that they shared produced all. kinds of of of psychological maladies. that included an eating disorder for. one, persistent neuroses in the other. They tried every form of talk therapy. They tried every psychotherapy modality. known to try to overcome that. And it. was Ibogaine that restored their lives. and their capacity to. enjoy the life that God has given them. We have first responders who are. emerging in numbers. One who is a.

firefighter from Oklahoma who was. demoted because of decades of. alcoholism. His life has been restored. by Ibogaine and he's back working. full-time. We have a gentleman who was a. Charlottesville police officer. who was hit in the face with a brick. during the riots that occurred in. Charlottesville. His life was restored by a single. Ibogaine treatment and he has attained a. level of functionality that he didn't. think was possible nor his doctors. We have a uh.

a gentleman who was a pilot who. unfortunately did a bombing run on a on. a village and and killed a number of. innocent people. He learned about this. and this sent him into a spiral as many. war fighters who are exposed to moral. injury do. Ibogaine has restored this gentleman's. life. We have a gentleman by the name of. Robert Gallery, a former NFL player who. exhibited all the signs of CTE in his. post-retirement years. He was ready to kill himself so that he.

wouldn't harm his own family. It was. Ibogaine that restored his life. There. have been other NFL players who are as. yet unnamed. Some incidentally. uh that have been in the paper who have. gone for Ibogaine treatment to address. similar symptoms. Players in the NHL. Players in uh. other contact sports that include soccer. and rugby in the United Kingdom where. there is an emerging cohort of. professional athletes who have reached. out to us to say we want the United. Kingdom for Ibogaine. I would love to.

get you guys connected with the UFC. We. would love to be connected to the UFC. >> Cuz that is obviously an issue with. professional fighters. So. Hughes, Matt Hughes. Um. and and Matt had I met Matt through. Marcus. gosh in like 2008 or so and we went out. for a fight. And then subsequently um. Matt. had a I think a car accident of which he. really had. >> hit by a train. Yeah, it just an.

incredible uh traumatic uh brain injury. And uh I I I I just want to I want to. have that conversation with him. And I'm. I'm sure you have great relationships. with those. We know for a fact. that cumulative. um. impacts on the brain. are. what lead to CTE. I mean, that's I'm. I I I don't think that's even a question. of Here's how it happens. These multiple.

concussions have cumulative effect on. the brain. And at some point in time. that um CTE. has a long-time effect. And. this medicine. has the ability. to remove that trauma, to reset that. brain, to heal that brain. I don't know. how it works, Joe. But that's the reason these clinical.

trials are going to be so important as. we're going forward. And I And I'm I. can't tell you I'm ecstatic that the the. the Lieutenant Governor and the Speaker. today announced their their. their their full Texas support behind. these clinical trials. We're fixing to become the epicenter. for a movement that literally can change. the world. I know that sounds kind of. a little bit over the top. But if we have within our.

grasp here a compound. that can heal our loved ones who have an. addiction. uh be it a substance addiction or be it. a non-substance addiction. If we have. the ability to heal people who have been. traumatically impacted by concussions. If we have the ability to address. PTSD in all the different forms that it. comes. I mean. the hope that that can give to the.

society that we live in. And I'm not. talking about just the United States. You think about what's going on in. Israel, in Ukraine, in the Middle East. today, and the trauma that people are. facing. Uh I mean, this truly can be an. extraordinary gift to the world. And I. you know, I I listen, I think it's. really interesting you ask uh. a leading question about. how did. I come to.

this position of being able to be. supportive as I am and. and then when I think about my my. growing up and I grew up in a very. conservative Christian family. And and I think one of the challenges we. still have in. um in our society is that. the the. the. Christian the conservative Christian. faith is like stay away from my stuff.

I mean, that's that's bad. Do not. in under any circumstances. Don't be. going there. It's demonic. And. there's a book that's about to be. published. I think is it about I think. the first week in April, so we're. approaching it. There's an author by the. name of Wendy Reese, R E E S. And Wendy. with an I, W E N D I R E E S. And she uh not unlike the the two twins.

um. was sexually assaulted by her own. father. He's a pastor of church. Joe, I I'm telling you, brother. I can't I can't dream up in. my worst nightmare. a more evil thing. than a father that would sexually. assault their. >> A preacher father. >> their daughter. And she. dealt with it. with Ibogaine and has come to the.

conclusion that her great gift to give. to the world out there is to write this. book called. A Christian's Guide to Psychedelics. Now, if you think that won't catch some. people's attention when they're going. through the bookstore and they go. A Christian's Guide to Psychedelic? Holy. mackerel. But, this is a book. about her experience, but it's also a book that I would. suggest that every believing Christian. go pick it up and read it because it.

talks about chapter and verse and and. gives you scripture about where God. talks about these compounds, about these. things that he's given the world. He. means them for good. All of them for good. Are you aware of. the um scholars in Israel that are. proposing that Moses seeing the burning. bush was the acacia tree? Yeah. The There's an acacia tree The. acacia tree, which is very common in the. Middle East, is rich in.

dimethyltryptamine. And they believe that what they're. trying to relay in this story was that. Moses encountered God through the. burning of this bush. So, the burning of this bush releasing. the psychedelic compound. dimethyltryptamine. allowed Moses. to bring back the 10 Commandments. You know, uh thank you for mentioning that. I have. been following scholarship around the. use and the recognition that there's a.

lot of psychedelic category in holy. scripture. That I think is the favorite. Where that. burning bush reveals the great I Am. And. when Moses says, "You know, who are. you?" "I am who I am.". And the beauty about Ibogaine and the. other plant medicines are their capacity. to reveal the I Am that was in within is. within each of us. And that I Am is our. eternal creator who absolutely has. engineered and placed these plants on.

this earth so that we can be affirmed in. what our true identity and ultimate. destiny is. And praise God for it. And then there's also the sacred. mushroom in the cross, the John Marco. Allegro book, where he where he was one. of the. ordained ministers that was. his task was to decode the Dead Sea. Scrolls. And he wrote this book that details what. he believes is the use of psychedelic. drugs in ancient Christianity.

I. Hard for me to argue with. I mean, I I. just think our modern perception of it, which is very tainted by what happened. during the Nixon administration where. they were trying to squash the hippie. movement, the anti-war movement, and the. civil rights movement. And that's why. they demonized these drugs and these. compounds. And that's why they put them. in this category of having no medicinal. use, which is clearly not accurate. It. doesn't mean that they should just be. given to everyone and everyone should do.

them with no restrictions and no. regulations. It just means we should. understand that they have a long history. of human use and have spectacular. results on all sorts of things that our. society is suffering from greatly. And. to just pretend that that's not the case. based on. what happened in the 1970s is just. insane. It doesn't make any sense. I would suggest that one of the greatest. lessons learned by.

Americans who are age 50 and younger, those of us who I call the bicentennial. children, is that the most morally depraved. criminal in America today is power. And the power of the human hand, when it. is wielded in its most abusive context, will always seek to deny any access to. individual human divinity and the. liberty and autonomy that is conferred. upon each of us as children of God. And in so far as we find ourselves at.

the precipice of what I believe is the. emergence of a broad-based spiritual. movement where all of us modernists. within the empiricism of modern American. society are able to see through the fog. of all of our wealth and gadgetry and. recognize. we are in the midst of profound. spiritual famine in the United States. You, I know, and forgive me for. referencing age, remember back in the mid-80s.

where we saw all these horrific images. of starvation and dissension distension. and fly-covered death. from mass famine in Ethiopia and Sudan. where millions of people starved to. death. because the malevolence of power forbade. the delivery of any relief sent by the. outside world. When we look at what's right in front of.

us in the United States today, there is. no denying. that we are in the midst of a terrible. spiritual famine. And the malevolence of American power is. feasting on our starvation. This is an emancipation movement for the. mind, body, and soul of every human. being in this country and across the. globe. who is lethally estranged from their own.

spirituality. The Ibogaine mission is a mission to. foment dramatic medical breakthroughs. across a host of conditions that have no. effective therapeutic answers. But above and beyond that, it is about. the affirmation of the spiritual essence. of life. that can unify us as a species in a way. that is necessary if we're going to. navigate these changes over the next 20. years. Governor Perry mentioned this wonderful.

invitation that I received to go to. what was called the Earth One Summit. Now, Joe, I come out of Hillbilly Holler, Virginia. And. I. It's a I do I. I I introduce him from time to time. I. said, "Look, this guy. he's he's he looks like and he sounds. like a hillbilly from. eastern. Kentucky in the Appalachian Mountains.".

And I said, "He is.". But I said he's one of the most. brilliant people I've ever met in my. life and one of the most extraordinary. orators I've ever had in my life. So. anyway, I wanted to I I I love you, brother, but you are a hillbilly. Well, I'm much more comfortable with that than. all that other stuff you said. But, you know, when you come out of scratch nothing, sometimes there are certain. sophistications that you lack. And and. I'm no exception to that. So, there was this Earth One Summit. It was. 200 thought leaders from across the.

world who came to basically discuss the. future. And I was very honored to have received. an invitation to come and. attend the gathering to speak about what. Governor Perry and I are working on. through Americans for Ibogaine and they. presented me with the honor of being the. closing keynote speaker for the. gathering. And as I listened over the course of 4. days, I heard individuals who included. uh Kimball and Christiana Musk, and I've.

read interviews by uh Elon Musk speaking. about the advent of AI, and the capacity. of AI to solve the central dilemma that. we as humans have had since we emerged. from the caves, and that's the dilemma. of scarcity. So, as I was there listening to folks. speak about. being on the edge. of a time when we can automate the means. of production. and essentially create an unlimited.

amount of abundance for every person on. this planet, I couldn't help but think about where we. are right now. as compared to where these individuals. see us being in 20 years. You cannot create and deploy. this kind of god-like technology, which. has the capacity to produce unlimited. abundance, potentially usher in the age.

of Aquarius, and drop it in to these Frankenstein. monstrosity government systems that we. currently have. that are enthroned upon the helplessness. of powerless people, that perpetuate problems that they are. supposed to solve, and that monetize. sustained human misery. So long as government makes its buck. over keeping its foot on the necks of. the American people, we are looking at a.

future that much more resembles Mad Max. than we are Star Trek. And if we are going to create the degree. of social cohesion that is necessary to. hold these systems accountable and to. create a system that can truly usher in. that age of unlimited abundance to. improve the human condition for all. It. begins with a spiritual reawakening that. I began first and foremost, and the rest. of the psychedelics can seed and foment.

within American society to that end. And. then I'll be quiet for the next little. bit. >> good, man. We love We love We love. listening to you. There is a six-part. docuseries that will come out next year. called psychedelics and and it is. uh. a series of interviews with a. cross-section of leaders across the. United States, uh where they speak about their own. quest for meaning, uh and and how psychedelics has helped. them understand that we are more than.

just these material beings that get up. and go to work every day and are a. productive economic unit, go home, and. repeat. That there is a much higher. sense of purpose that we are here to. serve, and that the plants themselves. have the capacity to enlighten us at. scale in a way that's absolutely. necessary if we're going to make that. age of abundance happen as those. visionaries. articulate and and dream for. Well, I think what's fascinating about. the age that we're living in is that.

uh change comes very slowly, but it. comes much faster when you have the kind. of access to information that people. have today. And I don't think this. conversation was possible 20 years ago. >> No. No way. And that's kind of amazing. No way. >> It's kind of amazing. And I don't think. that there was a format for this. conversation 20 years ago. This format. has occurred because of the age of. information, because of the internet, and because there's no gatekeepers. anymore, and because people have the. choice to decide what they want to.

consume, what they want to listen to. And. to be able to be a part of that to me is. an incredible privilege. And to be able. to have you guys on and to have this. conversation and to recognize that the. reason why this is possible is because. with for a lack of a better term, the. world's waking up. >> Yes, sir. It's just taking more time. than we would like. Yeah. But the world. is waking up. And you change happens. It.

just happens it people have to change. their opinions and that's very difficult. cuz a lot of people identify with their. opinions. They their opinions become a. part of their ideology. And it's just. very difficult to get people to change. their ideology. They they identify with. this. It is them. And I've always try to. tell people the way I try to approach. things. You are not your ideas. You are not your.

opinions. These are just thoughts. And. if you identify with them, you are. trapped in them and you you will be held. hostage by them. You will try to defend. them even if they don't make sense. You. will try to ignore evidence that points. you in a direction that's contrary to. what your current belief system is. Don't be your opinions. Don't be your. ideas. Just sit in them. Be consistent. Be honest. Have ethics. and morals that you adhere to. But the. ideas are just ideas. And if you're.

wrong, you should be proud to say you're. wrong. It's a it's a a sign of growth. It's a sign of intelligence. And it it's a sign of you being an. honest human being who cares about the. truth, not about being right. Cuz. there's too many people in this world. that they don't really have. conversations. They have ideological. sparring matches where they just. involved in these. little intellectual tugs of war where. they're just trying to be right. And.

this is not the time for that. Cuz it's. just Survive. Am I going from. hard no. on. criminal justice reform. to. literally a leader on criminal justice. reform in the. mid-2000s. My going from. hard no on. any psychedelic drugs that could be used. in any way. to now being.

what I've. humorously refer. refer to as the Johnny Appleseed of. ibogaine. is to your point. You know, be. be be open. Be willing to say you were wrong. I know. my wife would like to hear me do that. more often. But hey, I I. if you don't mind, I want to take a a. minute. and talk about how. far this movement has come and.

um. Brian talked about Americans for. ibogaine and our ambassadors all across. the country and the growth that that. we've seen in this. And I want to give. you one example of to your point of that. five years ago, if you would have had an institution. that had its own reputation dealing with. brain health and brain science and those. kind of things, they would have just kind of moved you. off to the side and said, you know, no. thanks. But the. Center for Brain Health in Dallas, this.

is an extraordinary. institution that's connected to the. University of Texas Dallas. Matter of. fact, it's just next door to UT. Southwestern, which is one of the great. medical facilities in the world, UT. Southwestern. And Dr. Sandy Chapman heads up the Center for. Brain Health. And they've they've done. some some some great work. We went up. and presented to her, I don't know, probably 60 to 90 days ago and and there.

is another. organization called uh. Forward. Forward in Ten. >> Forward in Ten. Forward in Ten. Just a. beautiful young uh man and his wife uh. Alex Duran and and his wife uh who have. funded an effort. And what they're what they're doing with. their resources, they're sending. I think 250 individuals down to Mexico.

uh to both I think a facility uh called. Transcend and to Ambio. Uh and Ambio is the. is that facility that I've been to, Brian's been to, uh Marcus and and and. uh Morgan Luttrell have been to. I. think, you know, probably 2,000 more. fighters been down to Ambio now. Uh Vets. underwrites them. um. and just as an aside, this. has blown up so big.

And I'm talking about the the Ibogaine. effort, the education of Ibogaine, people, you know, there's some hope out there. And and. people are rushing to find where they. can go to, you know, to treat the. addiction that their loved one has or. deal with their PTSD and what have you. And and Ambio. uh is just covered up. Uh and I'm sure, you know, the other facilities uh. are as well down there. The the the. organization Vets, which is really where. I came into this, uh.

I think Amber and and Marcus Capone, um. they don't have they don't have any. openings anymore. I mean, they are. completely covered up. Um. and and but I mean, that's a good. challenge. I'm glad we have that. challenge. But my point is you've got a. an institution. in Dallas, Texas. that just like the state. uh is getting the signal it's okay to be. out there talking about this. It's okay. to uh to be a leader. It's okay to get. out there and and and lead the charge.

And I want to read to you. what Dr. Chapman um cuz I asked her, I. said, "Do you mind if I talk about what. you all are doing?" And she said, "Absolutely." And she said, "Governor, great to talk with you yesterday. Here. are some comments to guide you in how to. discuss our existing collaboration. Um. I'm excited to announce that we have. begun a partnership with the Center for. Brain Health, the University of Texas at. Dallas, Americans for Ibogaine, and Forward.

Intent to create the largest research. study of Ibogaine to date, focused. on understanding its impact on the brain. among the veteran community. Dr. Francesca Filbey, an expert in cognitive. and translational neuroscience, especially the use of neuroimaging to. study brain-behavior relationships, will. lead the research. Our mission together. is to move beyond the question of, "Does. Ibogaine help?".

and instead answer the more practical. questions veterans and clinicians need. Number one, "Who benefits and why? How long do the benefits last? Which. aspects of daily life functioning, i.e., cognition, sleep, substance use, and. overall well-being. improve or worsen following treatment? And how are these changes associated. with brain alterations? The 3-year study will follow those. treated with Ibogaine over the course of.

18 months, which will allow us to create. the first understanding of the sustained. impacts of Ibogaine on the brain across. various treatment regimes. We'll be diving more into this topic on. November the 19th at the Center for. Brain Health's. Brain Health Presents speaker series to. share more. By bringing world-class. scientific rigor to this space, we. aren't just studying a substance. We're. creating a foundation of knowledge that.

will expand safe, informed access for. those who need it most. That. is what Americans for Ibogaine. is really all about. Making that type of. penetration, having that type of. success, seeing what Brian and and the. the other folks have created here in the. state of Texas. I'm going to tell you. something, brother. There is nothing.

that I've been involved with. in my life. that gives me more pleasure. than to see what we're doing and knowing. that there's a father out there, a mother out there, whose child's going to be saved. You mentioned dogma.

People are. in particular in American society, there. is a quest for identity. There is a quest for belonging. So much of what we see on social media. and in broadcast media that is rage and. anger and disaffection is tremendous. loneliness and a tremendous lack of. of of belonging to something. and a tremendous amount of trauma. related to having never having had. anything that resembles unconditional.

affection within the context of a safe. and and stable familiar relationship. That's at scale within the United. States. And the degree to which dogma can thwart. evolution is 100% right on and I just. use my own self as an example. I was a child of Reagan's America. I can. remember I was about 5 years old when he. and President Carter had their first. presidential debate in 1980. President.

Reagan was like the. mother goose to the gosling. He just. imprinted on me. And whereas other young boys had. pictures of Joe Montana and Michael. Jordan and Michael Jackson all over. their rooms, mine was wallpapered with. Ronald Reagan. I was the president of the teenage. Republicans in high school. I wrote him. fan letters all the time. He actually. replied to one and I put it in a uh. uh a frame in my room. It was written on. my birthday. I was president of the.

college Republicans at George Mason. University and I mean I aimed to be the. king of conservative Republican. conformity. That was my whole mission in. life. And I used to joke that uh. when people said, "Well, how did you get. to this? You know, and what do you think. about the fact that you're talking about. it and you're so zealous in your. advocacy?". I would kind of make a half statement. and say, "Well, if 25-year-old me could come and see. 50-year-old me, he would look and say, "What in the world happened to you?" And.

I would kind of yak and yak and laugh. about it. Well, here's the answer. If 25-year-old me. could come back and look at 50-year-old. me and say, "What happened to you?". 50-year-old me would look right back and. say, "You happened to me. You happened to me. Your youthful sense of certainty, your. belief that you had it all figured out, your belief that you had no further. greater evolution to achieve, sir. You.

and your insolence of youth. You happened to me.". One of the things that I have so enjoyed. learning about Governor Perry and as he. and I have built relationship. The first. time I really started following him was. when he ran for president in 2012 and I. believe that had he not had that back. surgery would have we would not have had. a second Obama term. He would have won. that race and I think he would have won. it handily. It's been remarkable to listen to this. gentleman who has been so firmly.

identified with the conservative wing of. the Republican Party be so well and to. be curious. And to have that human value of. curiosity and a willingness to hear and. a willingness to know and a willingness. to entertain that perhaps everything. that he had been taught about this. particular subject was not correct. Curiosity is a prime human value and if. you allow dogma to shut off your. curiosity, you have hobbled yourself and.

I think it was Muhammad Ali who said. if. if if a 50-year-old man thinks the exact. same way as a 20-year-old man as he did. when he was 20, he's wasted 30 years of. his life. And that is that is dead on. right. Dead on right. Yeah, I could have. attest to that. Uh. curiosity is my number one attribute. That's the thing that's led me in life. and everything I've ever done is just. being open-minded and curious. I'm very. fortunate is that I didn't think I had. things figured out when I was 20 at all.

I was sure that I was a. I was good at one thing, kicking people. That's it. And and then. from then I realized that there's a lot. to learn and that as much as I learned. about martial arts, I could apply. that sort of open-minded discipline cuz. you. you have to be open-minded to be good at. martial arts cuz you have to be able to. listen. You can't think you already. know.

You cannot. You won't You won't grow and. you won't get better. You You have to. be listening to coaches. You have to be. listening to instructors. you have to be. listening to your teammates. You have to. listen to everybody. If you don't. listen, if you have. don't tell me, those people don't go. anywhere and I learned that very early. on. It's a very fortunate that I found. that path because I've applied that to. virtually everything that I've ever done. in life. Instead of. having this belief that I have things. figured out. I mean, I've certainly like. been more sure than I should have been.

at many times in my life, but always. willing to stop and go, maybe I'm wrong. And. if it wasn't for this podcast, it would. have never gotten to where it is because. I've. fortunately been able to talk to. brilliant people. And you know, I grew up in um I lived in. uh. California for 26 years. Before that, I. you know, I lived in Boston and New York. and.

I thought of people that the southern. accent in particular, right? Then this. is a a standard thing that a lot of. people on the coasts have. You hear. people talk with a southern accent, you. think they're dumb. And it's a it's a terrible. stereotype that actually came out. because of hookworm parasites. I'm sure. you're aware of that story. >> I know I'm not. Educate me. The stereotype of the lazy dull-minded.

southerner came out of the fact that a. large percentage of people in the south. had contracted hookworms from walking. around barefoot and hookworm parasites. will rob you of your intellectual. capacity. They greatly diminish your. ability to think and exhaust you. You. you get slower and you know, in quotes. lazier, but you're really just infected. with the parasite. And it's an an.

percentage of the population in the. 1900s were were infected with hookworm. And in the South in particular. Hot. climates. And this is where this this. stereotype came from. When someone like. you speaks with such insane recall, like. your recall is bananas. Like your recall. of dates and names and times and I have. a pretty good recall. It's nothing like. yours. You it's extraordinary. And I. love when I meet someone who's brilliant. who still has.

>> Southern accent. Because it's it's like. Like I said. >> Yeah, forget all your stereotypes. Let them. all go, baby, cuz they're not real. It's. not real. Not None of that is real. Individuals vary wildly. And you know, I've met brilliant people. from um coastal cities and I've met. morons that talk like, you know, a person that you would assume would be. a highly educated intelligent person, but they're closed-minded and and. foolish in their ways.

And uh. having had this ability to have all. these different conversations with. different people, it's just like every. time I have another conversation just. expands my understanding just a little. more and a little more and a little more. and a little and I love it. And it's all. out of curiosity. And I'm I'm very happy. that I've been able to make that. curiosity infectious. My favorite cities, and I know we're. getting off the beaten path here a. little bit. >> I love to get off the beaten path. It's. my favorite thing to do. My my favorite cities in America America.

are those that you can go to and not. feel like you're in the country. Miami is fabulous. >> It's a wild place. You should have a. passport to go to Miami. It is fabulous. And I remember the first. time I went to New York City one time. when I was about 5 years old. The only. thing I could remember was the Empire. State Building and some dude with purple. hair sticking his tongue out at me. The next time was in 2019. And I had always had kind of that. stereotypical southerners attitude about.

you, you know, haughty, stuck up, >> mean-acting. >> Yep. Yankee people. >> Yeah. uh living in an obnoxious local. that would just be hell on earth to have. to endure. So, I had the opportunity to go and. spend a day there. And, rolled into. Grand Central Station on the railway. from. I think it was New Haven, Connecticut. And, just to watch the dimensions of the. architecture as we rolled into the city. I mean, the expansion of scale of this.

place. How old were you? Uh well, see, I. was about to turn. 44. I think I could hear The Beverly. Hillbillies music playing in my head. when I was going down through there. So, we get off at Grand Central Station. And, I mean, I walked all through that I. walked from Grand Central Station all. the way down to the tip of where the. World Trade Center was. I'm it was. New York City is a monumental human.

accomplishment. When you can have the. entire world within 300 square miles, and it is a a living affirmation of. everything the United States is supposed. to be as the last best hope of humankind. on earth. Just to be in that place. Anytime I've gone back since, I mean, the minute that I. go to get the Uber at LaGuardia Airport, and I see that skyline, I mean, my heart. just starts racing, racing, racing. I. would have never thought that I would.

just fall in love with New York City, but it is fabulous. San Francisco's the. same way. Uh just there are so many. wonderful places in the United States. where you wouldn't think that somebody. necessarily who sounded like me would. would would endorse. But, one of the. best things that I have done is stop. watching television news. The last time I watched television news. was after the first Obama press. conference in January of 2009 and I cut. it off. Wow.

>> Aside from presidential debates and. election returns, I've never turned it. back on. The number I shouldn't tell this. The. number. The number of times I've left my front. door wide open, the garage door open in. my neighborhood and nothing has happened. is remarkable. This country, in terms of her people, is as much like it was back in 1950 as. it has ever been. The complexion is a little different.

We've got a lot more diversity now than. we've ever had. But once you take that blinder of mass. media mayhem and all this fabricated. division that is purposely put out there. to keep us divided, to keep us tuning. in. To tuning in and and and and. segregated. >> Yeah. Once you take yourself out of it and you. just start having a conversation, next. time someone gets into an Uber with. someone who doesn't have English as a. second language, strike up a. conversation. Ask him, "How did you come.

to the United States? What brought you. here?". And your heart is going to feel with. just the unbelievable amount of pride. and love to hear those accents from the. Middle East and from Africa speak about. this country in ways that take us right. back to 1776. It's a fabulous place and I'm able to. say so much of this. because of what.

the plants have helped clarify by way of. that universal human divinity that we. all share, that this country is the. cradle to protect and to honor, which is. what makes this mission so incredibly. important. And I do want to Oh, I'm. sorry. >> No, go ahead, please. There's two people. that I left off of our ambassador. program that I think are really. showstoppers I want to mention. One is a gentleman by the name of Rear. Admiral Jim Hancock. This gentleman received ibogaine. treatment for his wounds of war. He was.

the Navy Medical Corps Chief and was the. medical officer for the United States. Marine Corps. One of our other ambassadors is a. gentleman by the name of General Glenn. Curtis. He served in both Gulf Wars. He. served in Afghanistan. His most recent. stint of service was as the commanding. general for the Louisiana National. Guard. And he is one of our prime. spokespeople for legislation that's. pending in Louisiana right now to join. Texas as a partner in this ibogaine. trial. So That's fantastic. Yeah. Please.

say what you were going to cuz I'm. curious. I don't even remember. Hey, well, I remember what I wanted to talk. about. So and and I want to get us back. on a. uh the the track that we were talking. about. Um. you know. Brian's done a great job to discuss the. uh. the spiritual aspect of the medicine and. and what I mean, that's incredibly. important. Don't don't get me wrong on. that at all. And um. but.

what brought me. personally to the medicine, obviously my. relationship with Marcus and Morgan and. what have you. And then as I studied it, I'm like. if you're really going to be. a legitimate spokesperson for this, if. you're going to uh you know, put your. reputation out there, you need to be treated. You need to go through the treatment. And. I'm going to get to you. at the end of this conversation, but I.

want to set this up if I may. And. in 2023, if my memory serves me correct, this is the same time that Nolan. Williams was heading up the uh. 30 veteran study that Stanford was going. to oversee kind of the early days if you. will. of some clinical trial type effort to. have the data to have the background. some early day. efforts to start educating the public.

about that is how I I do this. They had. 30 vets. I think they were between the. ages of like 22 and 42. They all had. moderate. to severe PTSD. They were. Some of them addicted to alcohol. You know, they were pretty classic. veteran population that had some real. challenges.

They were sent. to to Stanford and they did baseline. functional MRIs. And then they were sent down to Ambio. just south of Tijuana. Where they were given the treatment. And. then. that last I think about a four-day. treatment protocol. You go down. Work your way in.

Tuesday you get in preparation. Tuesday evening you get the compound. Wednesday's a recovery day. Thursday. there's a five DMT treatment. And then. you go home. They went back to Stanford. after. five days after the treatment and had. follow-up MRIs. I think they had a an. MRI 30 days and then a functional MRI at. six months.

So there was a you know, good good piece. of. data of to look at. Just. stunningly good results. Um. and uh the the results, I think there. was 87%. of them who 6 month now, better than 2. years later, uh but that have zero PTSD. Uh the addictions were at that level of. reduction that we talked about in the uh. high 80 percentiles. I mean, just Um I.

mean, we've seen all of this data. before. This is nothing new. But the reason I share that with you is. that. I basically went down and followed the. same protocol. I wasn't part of the clinical trial, but and I only wanted to be treated with. ibogaine. I did not want to take the. 5-MeO-DMT. So, what I was looking at, and I was interested in this from the. brain regenerative side of it. I had. about as bucolic a life as you've ever.

had. I never had anybody. mistreat me to a a anything that you. could even get close to calling. traumatic uh effect. I had no trauma in. my life. I grew up on a dry land cotton. farm, you know, 60 miles from Abilene, Texas, 16 miles from closest place that. had a post office, uh in a part of Texas. that uh that was just a lovely, wonderful, loving place. Uh my mom and. dad loved me and I knew it. And, you. know, my scoutmaster and my principal. and my superintendent and my Sunday.

school class, who by the way were all. the same person, and he drove the bus. and was a football coach, but. I I had a as. non-traumatic. growing up period as you can imagine. So, I was. concussed, severely concussed, three times. Twice in athletic events, and I'm. talking about knocked out completely for. over 1 minute.

And those are severe concussions. Two times athletic events, one time. unloading horses, knocked completely. out. So, what I know now is that. as I got to pilot training. and I started noticing that I was having. trouble sleeping. and that this. thing that I. understood later in life was anxiety. had crept into my life. So, I had I'm going to put it in the.

mild category, anxiety. And. um. and uh insomnia. I went into a very odd line of work in. politics to have those two kind of. things. and then and I I masked them rather. well. Uh most people didn't know I had. that. My wife did, but other than that. even my, you know, senior staff in my. my offices through the year, agriculture. commissioner, lieutenant governor,

governor, they did not know that I had. this challenge of, you know, maybe. sleeping. 3 and 1/2 4 hours a night. Um. being. anxious at times to the point of being. uh never dysfunctional. Uh. But from my. my perspective, I'm I'm probably some. people out there in the political world. say, "Hey, Perry, you were dysfunctional. the whole damn time. What are you. talking about?" Anyway, beside the. point. I had. the treatment.

I had the. I had the brain scan going in. I had the. brain scan a week later. And I had the. brain scan at 6 months. The. first brain scan. they said, "Look, your brain looks. pretty good for a 73-year-old guy." He. said, "You know, you're you're actually. in in pretty good shape. You don't have. a lot of atrophy. You got some mild. atrophy.

Uh but your brain looks pretty good. The week after scan. showed a 27%. increase. in the prefrontal cortex of my brain. That's where your focus, your. concentration, your emotions reside. Had. a 27%. increase in that prefrontal cortex. activity. My.

6-month scan. I have a. dear friend who's a neurosurgeon from. Tyler. Dr. Charlie Gordon. who is a. 40-plus year. neurosurgeon, spine expert, who looked at lots of. brain scans. A respectful skeptic of this. When I told him I was going to be. treated with this compound called.

Ibogaine, this psychoactive compound, he was. recoiled a little bit. He was like, "You need to be really. careful with that.". He has now gone from being respectful. skeptic. to looking at the data from the clinical. trial that was done at Stanford, talking. to a fairly good number of the. veterans that went through that trial,

talking to Dr. Williams, talking to. other specialists at the. at Stanford, and he has gone from. respectful. skeptic to a full-on. believer in this medicine. I mean, an absolute. supporter that this medicine does what. it says it does. It heals people of of. of. addictions. It heals from PTSD. This. medicine does what it does. And we're. driving back from the airport that day.

after the 6-month scan. He had looked at it as it came off of. the machine. And he said, "Governor, I'm not going to blow. smoke up your. dress. Your atrophy is gone.". He said, "I have no idea. why this has happened." But he said, "The difference between. your. initial baseline scan.

and 6 months later, clearly. the atrophy in your brain is gone." He. said, "Your brain looks like a. 40-year-old.". Now, the reason I share that story with you. is because number one, that's. partly what drives me about this is that. there is a regenerative aspect of this. medicine that we don't really understand. yet. And. if it does what we think it's going to.

do, and that's the reason these clinical. trials are just so stunningly important. That's the reason what the the Center. for Brain Health and what they're going. to be doing and the data they're going. to be collecting. I'm convinced of what this data is going. to show. But. for all of those individuals out there. who don't have substance abuse problems, who weren't. traumatized as a child, but who have. been concussed. And we know that that damage is is out. there and that this the the the the the.

cumulative side, Robert Gallery, that. great professional football player, who. had really bad CTE. And he will tell you. today this medicine saved his life. My question for you, Joe Rogan, is. how many times you think you've been. concussed in life? I don't know. I have no idea. Dozens. Yeah, I'd have.

to go back and think about. times um. Most of it was from sparring or a few. from fights. But um But if we think about that if. there if there is this cumulative. effect, Yeah. are are you. How old are you now? 58. Would Joe Rogan be willing to say, "You. know what? I've seen enough.

I believe that this medicine does what. you say it will do, and for a person. like me, that it could be incredibly helpful. to my. um. my long-term plan of living a long and. healthy and engaged life, that Joe Rogan. would go. and be treated with ibogaine? Yeah, I. would definitely I would definitely do. it. I'm very fascinated by it. I mean,

I've never heard anybody say, "I wish I. didn't do it.". He mentioned his brain scans post. treatment uh a couple of weeks ago while. I was at that Earth One Earth Gathering. I met a lady who I will call Lonnie, and she had just returned from an. ibogaine treatment in November of '25. She related an early life of just um. ungodly physical abuse by her father, who was addicted to OxyContin.

You know, we began this conversation. about the realities of the opioid. epidemic in America. While death is the most terminal outcome. is measured out about 700,000 Americans, there is a much broader web of hardcore. travesty that exists around each of. those death outcomes. And Lonnie experienced that. Uh. she had multiple concussions from her. own father. Like many individuals who experienced. trauma of this nature, she developed her.

own drug addiction. She was in and out. of jail. She was homeless at different. point in time. Uh she managed to get recovered. She had. a separate traumatic brain injury that. was fairly severe in 2018. And then she was diagnosed with what I. believe is called young-onset. Parkinson's, Parkinson's diagnosis that. is pre-age 50. Her Parkinson's had progressed to the. point to where she could not write. because of the tremulousness in her.

hands. So, when I saw her. 2 weeks ago. and she introduced herself, she had all. of the appearance and affect of a. perfectly healthy human being. It was. only after we sat down and she explained. what her experience had been. and where she was at now that the. Ibogaine disclosure was made. Her hand. was just as calm as mine, and she said. that it had been essentially 3 months. and that she had been able to resume a.

normal life and that her mind felt. restored. Now, based on the responses we got after our. first interview with you, I want to be. very careful here. This is truly the edge of science. And there is much unknown about the. variety of Parkinson's that this can. treat. There's some suggestion that. it is better for those who have a. genetic predisposition for the disease. that it is for those who contract. Parkinson's as the result of. environmental exposure. Ibogaine does.

not appear to have any impact on. Parkinson's developed as a result of. exposure to environmental toxin. The. stage of the disease at which you catch. it also appears to make a big. difference. The earlier, the better. It has also been asserted that ibogaine. does not cure Parkinson's. What it does. is slows disease progression and creates. for some a broad window of opportunity. for the restoration of function that can. dramatically improve the quality of.

life. Now, I'm just giving a number of. qualifiers about its impact and efficacy. on one individual, but think about what. we just said here. This is a woman who was diagnosed with. young-onset Parkinson's. She had lost. the ability to write because of the. tremulousness in her hands. She's 4. months out from a treatment and she's. been able to resume her full normal life. with a complete restoration of function. If we could get a COVID vaccine out. in 9 months, there is no reason why,

with the focused effort of Texas and the. other states we'll discuss here. momentarily, that we cannot achieve the. moonshot of our time within 3 years or. less. And that is the completion of an. ibogaine medication that can be fully. fully integrated into the US healthcare. system and made just as universally. available as every ineffective. opioid-based treatment that we currently. deploy through the medical system at a.

cost of $700,000. per patient, sponsored by Indivior, which is one of the chief pharmaceutical. developers of everything that we have. that fails 75% of the time. Yeah, I mean, if we could do it, it would be pretty. extraordinary. And if it is done, I. really do believe that it would have a. complete changing of society. When people have no hope and there's. nothing and then all of a sudden there's.

something that comes along that you do. it once and it's an 85% effective rate. And you do it twice and it's in the high. 90s. I mean. It's change I mean how many people are. out there struggling with something? Whether it's alcoholism, whether it's. obesity, whether it's. you know, that's another thing like. there's there's people that are calming. themselves with food. Right? And it's. masking That's probably a sugar. addiction. Don't you think? I mean from. the standpoint of It is but for a lot of. people it's there's something else. You.

know, for some people it's sexual abuse. in their younger and they they eat. It's. it's. Interesting. There's it's an addiction. Yep. And then and it's not just a. physical addiction. It's a psychological. addiction. I brought up gambling because. I know a lot of people that are addicted. to gambling. >> Pornography. Yeah, pornography. Sure. A. lot of there's a lot of things. The two. fashion models we mentioned are ones who. had developed those eating disorders. One of which was a compulsive eater as a. result of that childhood sexual abuse. and uh Ibogaine was the treatment of.

last resort, not the first option. And. their own recovery story which can be. found on the Americans for Ibogaine. website is truly extraordinary. And speaking of extraordinary, when we came in here to push Texas, our belief was and still is. and is now playing out at scale that if. Texas did this, it would be joined by a. number of other states who are no longer. willing to sit and wait on an.

inefficient, often incompetent, and also. incompetently corrupt federal. bureaucracy. that will not move in response to the. genuine needs of the American people at. the pace that it needs to. There are a variety of well-intentioned. reformers within the current. administration. Uh Secretary Kennedy, Secretary Collins, and others. who have voiced their support for the. advancement of plant medicine as.

breakthrough treatments primarily for US. war fighters, but also for other members. of our society for whom these. medications could help. We believe that these individuals are. stymied by two realities. The first reality is the Byzantine. complexity of the federal bureaucracy, the degree to which it has been. compromised by the institutional capture. of much of its. uh functioning. by companies that make money on keeping. problems alive.

We think they're probably also stymied. by perhaps some other political. crosscurrents within the administration. that view psychedelics with skepticism. and that are therefore willing to be. indiscriminate in their resistance to. the advancement of any of them when in. fact the advancement of this one is of. existential critical importance as a. breakthrough treatment for millions of. Americans who need it now. And so to that end, Americans for Ibogaine following the. Texas success.

convened a gathering of 200 people in. Aspen, Colorado in November of last. year. These individuals were invited, appointed, and elected state officials. from 22 individual states and aligned. citizens of influence who would be. willing, as the Texans were here, to get. behind efforts in state legislatures to. create a partnership with Texas that by. end result will form the unstoppable. external force through the states that. can crash through the federal wall using.

not just their resources, but their. political influence to execute one. unified FDA drug development trial and. to force the federal government to be. responsive to everything that is. required to ensure it is successful. So as we sit here today, we have been working with elected. officials in Alabama, Georgia, Idaho, Maryland, Michigan, New. Hampshire, South Carolina, Vermont, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Florida, South.

Dakota, and California. Each of whom. have legislators who are willing to. introduce and to pursue bills to join. their states into Texas as this trial. Governor Perry and I spoke to the. American Legislative Exchange Council as. keynote speakers on December 5th of last. year. This is an umbrella think tank. organization for center-right, mostly. Republican legislatures from across the. country. In its entire existence, ALEC has taken. two positions when it comes on the war.

on drugs. More prison, more penalties, more prison, more penalties. Ad infinitum. After we spoke about the necessity of. ibogaine's medical integration into the. United States and the capacity of the. states to force this reality into being, ALEC issued a formal position statement. as well as model legislation endorsing. what we call the American Ibogaine. Initiative to bring the states all. together to make this happen with one.

unified voice. And so now, as we sit. here with you today, in the state of Tennessee, there are two bills, one each in the. state house and the state senate, that. are making its way through that. legislature to join Texas. Before we. walked in here this morning, the. Tennessee Senate Finance Committee voted. 11 to nothing to move Tennessee's bill. forward to the full state senate for. consideration and what will, I believe, be passage. And I would like to give a. shout-out to a special sister by the. name of Ricky Harris, who has led that.

Tennessee campaign. Right now, there are two bills in the. Missouri legislature, House Bill 2817. and Senate Bill 1581, which are receiving good, considerate, deliberative. thought by legislators there, but. frankly need a little motivation. So, if. you're in Missouri and you want to see. ibogaine medicine for your family. member, for your community, for your. state, you call in to the Missouri. legislature and say, "Move the ibogaine. bill forward to join Missouri with. Texas." Oklahoma,

the Oklahoma House of Representatives. has passed its ibogaine bill. It is now. pending in its Senate. In Louisiana, Senate Bill 43 has been introduced to. join that state to Texas. And in what I. can only describe as full circle. justice, the Kentucky Senate passed Senate Bill. 77 by a margin of 35 to 2 to join. Kentucky, where this all began, with. Texas as a state partner in this. ibogaine drug development trial. It is.

now sitting in the Kentucky House of. Representatives. So, you if you are at. home, please. call the Kentucky House of. Representatives and ask them to pass the. Kentucky ibogaine initiative so the. state will not be left out. Now, here are some. just. unbelievable words that are going to. come out of my mouth. The state of West Virginia, their House. of Delegates by a vote of 96 to nothing, and their State Senate unanimously.

passed their ibogaine bill to join. Texas, and it has now been sent to their. governor for signature. And the one that is the most poignant. and moving for all the obvious reasons, the state of Mississippi, the crucible for the triumph of uniquely. American hope over horror, under the leadership of Representative. Sam Creekmore, its State House of Representatives. passed by a margin of 111 to 1,

and its State Senate passed by a margin. of 51 to 1, the Mississippi ibogaine. initiative, which will tie the state of. Mississippi with a $5 million. appropriation from its opioid fund to. Texas to develop the most powerful. psychedelic on the planet as a. breakthrough treatment for trauma and. addiction for the people of Mississippi. That's incredible. >> It is going to be signed, actually has. been legally signed by Governor Reeves, uh Governor Tate Reeves.

And Governor Perry and I have asked for. a special signing ceremony with. Representative Creekmore, his. legislative leaders there, to stand in. Jackson, Mississippi and see that signed. into law as a matter of ceremonial. formality. What a wonderfully redemptive. opportunity that we have here to. shepherd. And we hope and pray that our. organization can be sufficiently. resourced and sufficiently engaged over. the next 3 years so that we can see this. process to conclusion. I'll mention a.

couple of others since we're talking. about the capacity to make this a. broad-based humanitarian mission that. improves the human condition. Just Friday, before traveling down here. on Sunday, I received a letter from the. government of Gabon naming Americans for. Abagaine as its official partner for the. advancement of Iboga medicine globally. Gabon has 2.3 million people. It's got. 100,000 square miles of territory that's. the modern Garden of Eden.

And I'd had the opportunity to take a. trip there from and I mean trip as in. the geographic sense, not the. Not not the Iboga trip, though I hope. that that will be on the agenda in the. ceremonial way sometime within the next. year. Uh we traveled there from January 6th to. January 20th. And if someone would have said, "When. you go to Gabon, you're going to have. one of the most down-home experiences. you've ever had in my life." It would. have blown my mind. But it was a. fabulous journey, one in which they were.

jubilant about our ability to. demonstrate that what they call the. sacred wood, in fact, is one of the most. scientifically advanced substances that. has perhaps ever been discovered. And. we're honored that the government would. choose us as their partner to move this. forward. On Monday, after a conference call with Chief Gary. Batton, I can confirm that the Choctaw Nation. will seek to join Texas in the expansion.

of this ibogaine drug development trial. onto their sovereign territory as the. third largest Native American tribe in. the country. On April the 7th, I will be traveling to. Durant, Oklahoma, for what is being. called the Inter-Tribal Council meeting. of what they describe as the five. civilized tribes. That's their name, not. mine. This is a gathering of the leadership of. the Chucks Choctaw, the Chickasaw, the. Cherokee, the Muscogee,

and the Seminole. We expect a passage of a resolution that. I will be there to lobby for for the. five civilized tribes will declare their. solidarity with Americans for ibogaine. for the integration of this divine. emancipator into the US healthcare. system as expeditiously as possible and. make all of their resources available to. explore the extent of which we can. operationalize ibogaine medicine as. quickly as possible. And it's my hope.

and aspiration that we will see all of. Native America join this effort before. the end of this year. >> Can I stop you there? Would that make it. so that they would be able to. immediately establish retreats there? So, similar to the way they have. casinos? Because they don't have the same sort of. regulations that some states do. Tribal sovereignty is an area of the law. with which I am not familiar. I would not be able to speak to the. degree to which they could autonomously. open a clinic. The most immediate issue.

would be related to the creation of a. supply chain because you have travel. through interstate commerce in the US. states which is theoretically. restricted. However, there is one spectacular opportunity not. just to expedite the creation of. ibogaine treatment access for Native. America, but for all of America. And this gets into federal right to try. legislation authored by former US. Senator Kyrsten Sinema and signed by.

uh the president during his first. administration in 2018. And. what federal right to try legislation or. the law provides is that. once. any medication makes its way. through phase one safety testing within. the FDA's process, then anyone with a life-threatening. condition for which that medication is. being developed can request treatment. with that medication and obtain it from.

a willing prescriber. What does that mean? That means. that as soon as Texas. or as soon as one of the Native tribes. effectively completes. a phase one safety study under the. language of the law, anyone who has a life-threatening. condition for which this medication is. being developed, first and foremost. opioid dependency, can go and request. and get the treatment.

We have one complication. Presently, the Drug Enforcement. Administration, in keeping with the practice of many. government agencies that use their. arbitrary authority to interpret law, has asserted that federal right to try. does not apply to schedule one. substances. This means that based on not. the language of the law, but on DEA's interpretation. preference of that law,

once ibogaine clears through phase one, it would be disqualified for access. under federal right to try because the. DEA says that if schedule one substances. were intended to be included, they would. have been specifically listed in the. legislation. When Kyrsten Sinema, the author of the. bill, explained to them. that the language is unambiguous and it. says any medication. Their response was insolence.

and a refusal to honor what the statute. actually says, which is one of these. numerous examples of the use of. fictitious legal realities to do. violence to legitimate reality. The DEA needs to be told to relent on. its misinterpretation and extrajudicial. interpretation of federal right to try, to interpret it as written so that once. any phase one study on ibogaine is. completed, delivery can be effectuated. through the medical system immediately.

And I might add one of the challenges. that uh. I've seen over my 40 years of being. involved in government is that. bureaucrats, the easiest and the safest answer for a. bureaucrat is no. Um and I think that's part of what we're. running into in in DC with the DEA. Um. one of the issues that I I certainly. hope and and and pray and as we go. through the summer and as we see what's.

happening in Texas and Mississippi and. these other states, that uh we'll have the opportunity to. sit down uh with President Trump and to. just share with him what we're doing, what we're seeing across the. uh the country and that uh we could uh. potentially have a conversation about. the rescheduling. of ibogaine from 1 to 3. 2 or 3, but you know, just you you get. it out of that schedule 1, which it.

there's no reason in the world and you. talked about this many times, Joe, that Ibogaine is on schedule 1. It. does have medical purposes. I mean, it's. very clear it does. And secondly, it is. not addictive. So, the idea on its face. that Ibogaine is um. shown as this schedule 1 compound is. just a fallacy. Well, the schedule 1, the sweeping schedule 1 act of 1970 is. just nuts. They just threw a bunch of. stuff in there. Many of the things that aren't even. psychoactive.

A a question. uh the Iboga tree, can it be grown in. the United States? Theoretically, it could be. >> climate dependent? >> It's it's climate dependent, it's soil. dependent, it is considered an entourage. plant whereby it absorbs. essentially. the essence not just of the soil around. it, but of the other botanicals. Uh one of the things we learned in Gabon.

is that much like we have great. varietals in California for all the. different kinds of wine that they. produce, there are different varieties. of the Iboga shrub. How it grows in the. north of the country is very different. than how it grows in the south. In terms. of the amount of compound that's in it. or the type of compound that's in it? Uh. the potency, the strength, the nature of its effect on the person, uh the way that it kind of facilitates. the the spiritual journey. There's some.

of it that will kind of have a a dark. angle. There's some of it that has more. of of a light angle. Uh. we are just really scratching the. surface of knowledge as to all the the. ways in which it can vary based on how. it grows naturally. One of the most fascinating things that. we learned there, and this is going to. give you chills. We visited a 5 hectare, they use the. metric system. We visited a 5 hectare iboga plantation.

right in the center of Libreville that. is run by one of their former prime. ministers. It's an experimental farm to. kind of understand. how it grows, the optimal ways in which. to grow it, and what different outcomes. are. So, as we were walking along, we came to these two small bushes. It. takes for it about 10 years to come to. maturation. We come along this pathway and there. were two shrubs, identical, growing just. a couple of feet apart from each other.

And they pointed those out and said, "Can Now, what does that look like to. you?" And I said, "Well, those are iboga. shrubs." And I smiled and they said, "Well, it would appear so.". Because they are identical. They said, "But in nature, when you find an iboga shrub, you're going to have to be very careful. to determine which one's which because. in nature it looks like they grow in. pairs. One. is the real deal. The other. is its poison impostor. Oh. And they.

grow together. And they look identical? >> They look identical. How do you. differentiate? >> It's not until they get fully grown into. their 10th year, one bears fruit, which. is the real deal, and the other does. not. Wow. >> Now, how does that do you for the. physical communication of a mystical. spiritual reality? And so, it takes 10. years for it to come to fruition to the. point where it could be useful? Uh no. Uh they But you could use it before.

then, but you don't know whether you're. getting the real deal or you're just. killing yourself. >> When you see them grow in pairs, that's. correct. >> Wow. So, there's one group of people who know. how to differentiate. One of the things that we learned is. that there is a healthy underground. international market for the bark. Um, just like we use vitamin B complex. or we use valerian root to help us go to. sleep. Uh, people in Gabon will use the. the iboga bark for mental acuity and. just like drinking a cup of coffee. I.

mean, to get the psychoactive effect you. have to eat like five big huge heaping. plates of this stuff over the course of. time. It's so bitter it will burn your. mouth. I mean, it it's an Olympian. ordeal. >> Yes, sir. It's an Olympian ordeal to consume the. amount of bark that's necessary to get. that that mystical effect and you're. sicker than a dog the whole time you're. doing it. But apparently piracy in the country for. the shrub is is fairly prominent. And. they explained that what poachers will.

do is that they will take the poison. imposter and basically like the street. supply where you put pollutants in with, you know, cocaine or whatever here. They. put that imposter bark in with the real. cuz you cannot visually differentiate. The Ambongo pygmy. uh, who we had the privilege of meeting. who hosted us for an overnight ceremony. of blessing and protection that was just. phenomenal. They apparently can just taste. the bark even when it's mixed together. and they can tell if it's adulterated.

with the imposter. Wow. But uh, to know that. >> Those are like sommeliers of ibogaine. Yes. That's a great way to put it. An. ibogaine sommelier. Might have to go over there and get. tutored. Yeah, I wonder what that process is. like. Boy. Well, it's just it seems to me that with. the incredible effectiveness of this. compound and it being adopted by all. these states as you said, it almost.

seems inevitable that change is coming. Well, here's what we need to make change. happen. We need the DEA to get on board. >> Well, we need the DEA to get on board, but we need one man. to get on board. And that man is the President of the. United States. We're here to recognize. America in her 250th year. 25 of those 250, now, 10% of time. has been spent at war. And there are conditions unique to war.

that only this medication can. responsibly address in a way that. nothing else can. If. there is an opportunity. to improve the human condition at scale, particularly for those who are even. right now being marched in to go and. fight yet another war, take an executive action. that would direct ibogaine to be moved. to schedule two, that the provisions of the Halt Fentanyl.

Act be applied to the Texas multi-state. ibogaine drug development trial, that the DEA be directed to interpret. federal right to try so as to not. exclude schedule one medications that. are in drug development, and that it be. appropriately interpreted so that any. medication that makes it through phase. one. can be accessed by a person with a. life-threatening condition, and then. directing. that federal scientific research. agencies, whether they be within health.

and human services or the Pentagon, come. alongside the states in direct. partnership to fund and foster the. accelerated pharmacological development. of ibogaine so that this medication can. make its way all the way through the. FDA's process with their supportive. guidance within 3 years or less. It is. the moonshot of our time. And if there's. a humanitarian legacy to be left for the. ages. by a president who very much wishes.

to have a legacy that is well reflected. upon by posterity. This is one of the. most monumental opportunities he has to. help folks at scale in a way that no. president perhaps has before. We're at. an inflection point in history, not just. for this country, but globally. Well, I. certainly hope that this message reaches. the president. And uh I will try to make. sure that it does. Thank you, sir. I mean, I think. in terms of the amount of people that it.

can help and the crisis that our country. is enduring with opioid addiction, with. PTSD, with all sorts of trauma, with. CTE, with from sports, from car. accidents, and and what have you. I. mean, this is I mean, it's astonishing. that this is even a struggle. When you consider the effectiveness of. this, it's astonishing that we have to. plead, and that you have to put in so. much work, and kudos to you for doing. that, and kudos to Dan Patrick for this.

recent adoption of it here in Texas. And I mean, I just can only hope that momentum is on. the side that's correct, and that this. this is implemented through the entire. country, and that people wake up and. realize like we can help people. And. everyone at this point in time because. of the opioid crisis, everyone is. touched by this. Everyone has a family. member. Everyone knows someone, a. friend, a neighbor, everyone. Everyone. knows someone who's been hit by this.

But I have friends that have. no problems with anything else, and they. had an injury. and got hooked on opiates, and had a. terrible time kicking it. >> It. Opioids are. I I. I'll use the word demonic. I I just I. don't know any other way to to describe. it. >> of their life. And and and. and. to have seen, you know, back in Kentucky. uh where this all started in my opinion, uh, in in your work there. Uh, and to.

have uh, the success that we're seeing now in. Kentucky and having it blocked. historically, uh, when you were there at. the opioid, uh, abatement commission and. and and the current governor being a. part of that, uh, uh, blockade, if you will, former. employee of the, uh, the Sackler family. Uh, and and today to have the opportunity, uh, you know, for for the Kentucky people of Kentucky. to finally get the opportunity to, uh,

make right what they got uh, so. tragically impacted by, uh, back in the, uh, late '90s and the 2000s. I just, I. mean, it did It gives me great hope, uh, not just for this country, but for the. for the, uh, the side of righteousness. that, uh, this happens in a big and a. powerful way. Here, here. Um, hm, you. mentioned the Kentucky experience, um, before we rolled out the Ibigale. initiative there and I ran the opioid.

commission stood up the opioid. commission, I thought our first job was. to go and to hear from the people of the. state. You know, we were getting a. billion dollars in settlement funds. This money was coming to us because. thousands of their family members had. died. So, recognizing that confidence in. government is at an all-time low, I. thought it was important to go out and. say, "Hey, here's who we are, here's the. job we've been given, here's the. resource we have, tell us. what need you have in your community. that we can look to fund.

Uh, this is something that needs to be. accessible to grassroots organizations, it needs to be accountable to you as. people, and we need to make sure we're. transparent with how we use this money, but our first job is to listen.". Well, over the course of 20 town halls. across the state, Tuesday evenings from. 6:00 p.m. until we wrapped up, what. began as a 15-minute technocratic. presentation of what this state. commission does turned into. these. these. mass catharsis events where hundreds of.

people, thousands over the course of. those 20 town halls, poured out the. depths of their grief right at our feet. And after they did, the sum total of. their response to us was. we don't think. that you have the competence or the. integrity. to do anything that's going to make a. meaningful difference in this line in. our lives. And we don't expect one cent. of this money is going to make the least.

bit of difference for us. At one of these town halls, I heard. about a young woman by the name of. Tamron. And the woman who told Tamron's story. was a volunteer at a clinic for the. survivors of child sexual abuse. This particular clinic made sure that. children received appropriate medical. treatment, that they received proper. therapeutic counseling, uh and that they were placed in family. circumstances where they could perhaps. have a chance to have a decent life.

So, this volunteer told about meeting a. young woman by the name of Tamron when. Tamron was 10 years old, had been. horrifically sexually abused by a family. member. Tamron had to have a series of. reconstructive surgeries because of how. awful it was. And she said that she worked with Tamron. for about two or three years and that. she went to her adopted family and. uh she hadn't been heard from since and. that she assumed that that was despite. how awful her circumstances were when.

she came through the door, that she. managed to get well and go on and have a. a relatively. functional and and happy life, as happy. as one can to be a survivor of those. circumstances. This same woman said that about 10 years. later. she was volunteering at the Perry. County, Kentucky Detention Center and. uh the county seat of Hazard. And that she was offering mindfulness. and yoga classes to inmates there just. as a volunteer.

And she said she went in one evening to. teach her class. And that she saw this young woman. sitting in the corner off to herself, kind of withdrawn. She didn't want to. come participate in any of the yoga. exercises or anything and that she was. looking at her. And she said, "You know, even though she was an adult, she looked. kind of like what this young woman. appeared, Tamara, when she was 10 years. old.". She said, "So, I walked up to her and. knelt down beside her and I said, 'Is your name Tamara?'". And she said that young woman looked up.

at her and recognized, eyes bright, and. she said, "Yes, how'd you know?" She. said, "I'm the volunteer who worked with you. when you came to our clinic when you. were 10. What are you doing in here?". And Tamara explained. that because of the surgeries that she. had performed to be reconstructed, they. had given her opioids. And that what began to treat her. physical pain, she continued to rely. upon to treat her tremendous.

spiritual and emotional pain. And she had gotten busted buying oxy on. the street by a deputy with the Perry. County Sheriff's Department and put in. jail. Now, you think about what I just said. about how this young woman's life got. started off. And the response of power to her was a. prison. This is why what we are doing is so. necessary. And Governor Perry mentions. one other reality that's important.

Ahem, some of your viewers may have seen. a Politico article published on Sunday. about a presidential aspirant by the. name of Andy Beshear. who is the current Kentucky governor. Andy Beshear was the Attorney General of. Kentucky before he was governor. He is the son of his father, Steve.

Beshear, who was governor for 8 years. between 2007. and 2015. Andy's greatest accomplishment is being. his father's son because he has never. accomplished anything outside of his. father's lap. The legislature in Kentucky has been. controlled by Republican supermajorities. over the entirety of his term and. everything for which he claims credit. actually belongs to them by way of. accomplishment.

There are a few things for which he can. claim credit. One is shutting down the. state of Kentucky harder than Gavin. Newsom shut down the state of. California, which resulted in the. educational hobbling of an entire. generation of Kentucky children who were. already well behind national average. standards on both reading and math. You could go to a liquor store or a. strip club for months in Kentucky before. you could send your child to a public.

school. Andy Beshear is responsible for. that. He shut down the state's entire economy. He had an antiquated unemployment. benefits system that he instructed the. director of to make sure that his. contributors and his family members were. placed into the front of the line while. regular everyday people at home got a. busy signal for months on end and had no. financial lifeline while his family and. friends got valet treatment. When this.

was discovered, he scapegoated the. director of the unemployment system. for following his own instructions, a. guy by the name of Muncy Macnamara. And Mr. Macnamara took his own life. But the most egregious reality about. Andy Beshear and his father. pertains to the fact that they were both. law partners at the law firm. that represented Purdue Pharma against.

the people of Kentucky. in the litigation of OxyContin while. they were law partners there. Andy Beshear and his daddy drew law. partner paychecks off Purdue Pharma. client bills while they were there. And the people of Kentucky should have. received a billion dollars, but instead. received a measly $24 million payout. from Purdue Pharma because Andy and his. daddy's law firm malpractice that case.

The public record will establish that as. part of the Purdue Pharma settlement, 17. million documents were destroyed. The case was put under seal, and as a. condition of the settlement, their law. firm was allowed to cure their. malpractice of the case, which resulted. in a $24 million settlement within days. of Andy Beshear becoming the attorney. general. the That's right, the attorney general. I said I've been Republican all my life.

And I have. My family's been Republican. going back to the Civil War. I don't care if it's Gavin Newsom, Kamala Harris, Pete Buttigieg, that. Illinois governor, Governor Pritzker, any national Democrat. who needs my time, my effort, whatever I can offer by way of volunteer. resources to make sure. that Andy Beshear never sniffs the sewer.

grade of the White House. They've got. it. In this Politico article, Andy talks. about, in much the same way as other. performative public piety pervayers, that his life is guided by the Golden. Rule and the Good Samaritan. He likes to. wear his Sunday school and deacon. affiliations on his sleeve as so many. other performative public piety figures. do. If he were actually going to preach the.

part of the Bible that he has lived, he. would talk more about Judas and the 40. pieces of silver than he would any. Golden Rule and the Good Samaritan. And. I just want to make sure that the people. of home and the people of America know. who this man is as the national media. takes up Kentucky media's grotesque. narrative about his decency and tries to. lie him into the White House. Thank you for letting me say that. It's. been a long time coming. I understand.

Um anything else before we wrap this up? You think we covered it all? I think we hit it good. Thank you, Joe. Thank you, Brian. Thank you, Brian. You. have been a really big supporter of this. effort and Well, I think it's just. incredible. I mean, I it's I I can't. believe it's happening. You know, I'd. always kind of given up hope that people. would wake up. to the. powerful potential that a lot of these. compounds have to change people's lives. >> Yeah. Well, I'm sure there were some teachers.

of mine back in uh. the 1950s that the idea that that little. burr-headed kid. uh that is, you know, obviously uh not. paying a lot of attention could somehow. or another. end up being the governor of the great. state of Texas. And um. There there's probably a long long list. of those, as a matter of fact. And And. sure there's some people over the course. of the last uh. uh 15 years as I.

matriculated up through the political. process has said. uh you know, the idea that this guy is. going to be standing up uh. uh putting his reputation on the line. for something like psychedelics is that. that ain't going to happen. Uh but it goes back to your point about. be curious, be courageous, and make a difference. All right. >> And you're doing it, Joe Rogan. Thank. you, man. Thank you. Thank you, too, Brian. Thank you, and do you mind if I share. one last thing? Sure.

And because it is the 250th anniversary. of the country, this comes from the. heart. You know, the Bicentennial children have had the. blessing of being the grandchildren of. that greatest generation that overcame. the Great Depression, defeated Nazism, killed Jim Crow, and crushed totalitarian communism. That greatest generation lived, suffered, bled, and died to leave us the. shining city on the hill. Over the past 50 years,

the Bicentennial children, or those who. are known as Generation X, have. experienced the mass extinction. of family and community. We are the first generational cohort of. mass refugees from obliterated. biological families. who had to seek and build new families. of choice based on the salvation bond of. unconditional affection, rejecting only. the superficial socialized separatisms. of the skin suits into which we have.

been born. Over the past 30 years, we have watched truth, justice, and the. American way be overrun. by institutional deceit, white-collar criminality, and the. thieving tyrant's will, an odious. alignment of official depravity which. has produced. the opioid epidemic, the gravest engineered humanitarian. catastrophe to play out within our. borders since the end of the 19th.

century, and an epidemic which has. disfigured this country. The 2008 financial crisis which forcibly. dispossessed millions of us from the. American dream, including 52% of. African-American homeowners and sent us. the bill for the cost of our. dispossession, a bill that everyone under the age of 40. continues to pay through their lack of. economic mobility. And finally, and most. deplorably, 25 years of unremitting.

warfare which has taken exponentially. more service member lives here at home. by suicide than have been lost at. battlefields abroad. Over the last 10 years, 1.5 million. Americans have died from drug overdose, alcohol-related disease, and suicide. A. figure that exceeds the total number of. war casualties going all the way back to. 1776. We've got 102 counties with life. expectancies less than that of North.

Korea. 18% of respondents to a recent Pew. Research Center poll said that they. believe the federal government has the. capacity to do the right thing. A figure. that hasn't been above 30% since 2007. 80% of respondents to an October 2025. Wall Street Journal poll have said that. the American dream is dead. Power has answered these unconscionable. realities with a maelstrom of. bureaucratic absurdity, impudent.

incompetence, and predatory corruption, all with the blessing of the law which. has used its power to bind, torture, and. kill the truth. In the decades prior. to July 14, 1789, the French government. had ruthlessly. imposed its burdens, abusively imposed its costs, and. ravenously consumed the future of its.

people. The arrogance of the aristocracy. ultimately answered to the desperate. determination. of the peasantry. and its guillotine blade. We are here to pursue one of the. greatest humanitarian missions ever. undertaken, to serve and exalt the. primacy of the human soul. As we sit here right now, there are. millions of Americans who have.

no sense of greater purpose or of even. why they are alive, who mourn to see the. sunrise when it comes up and through. their windows. And what they need to know. is that they are indeed divine. There's only one thing that is known to. produce iron, and that's the supernova of a star. The iron in our blood originated in a. supernova eons ago. Every human being has stardust running.

through their blood. And the movement that Governor Perry and. I are leading is one that aims to. recognize the reality of that human. divinity. We are desperate. and we are determined. and we will crawl the last mile to. deliver good tidings unto the meek, to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them. that are bound. Glory, glory,

hallelujah. The truth is marching on. And thank you, sir, for letting us proclaim it right. here on your platform, the Walter. Cronkite out our age. >> That's. >> way to end it. Thank you. Thank you, gentlemen. Five minutes.