Joe Rogan Experience #2466 - Francis Foster & Konstantin Kisin

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. All day. >> Okay. So, when [music] we scheduled. this, the there's nothing happening. It. was so peaceful. >> Every time we're here, [laughter]. something crazy is going on, man. >> Yeah. Uh maybe we manifest it. >> To be honest, it did. 2026 did start. with a bang. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, a lot of things, you know,

it's just nothing seems stable. everywhere. Everywhere in the world. seems [ __ ] right now. Like this is the. like in all of my years, this seems the. most unstable globally. >> Like I never worried that the UK was. going to be like complete chaos, arresting 12,000 people for social media. posts and abandoning trial by jury, all. all that [ __ ] I never thought the.

Ukraine Russia war would go on this. long. Never thought. >> Never thought they would just continue. bombing Gaza and then what's happening. now? They just sort of stop and now. they're talking about putting a resort. there. [laughter] What are like you hear that. and you go, are you [ __ ] serious? >> Right. >> Tim Dylan has a I won't won't give the. bit away. He has a [ __ ] phenomenal. bit about staying in that resort. [laughter].

>> Yeah. And you boys have been busy as. [clears throat] well, Joe. >> Yeah. And then I was going to get to. that, the embarrassing part. Uh uh in. the middle of Ramadan, you take out the. leader of a Muslim country and uh. >> they're hangry already and you're. [ __ ] with it. >> Well, and [laughter] they're really Yeah. They. can't even drink water, right? And then, you know, I was listening to Tim Dylan's. podcast today. Uh he's got a great. podcast with uh Ryan Grim and one other.

gentleman. But one of the things that. they brought up was that some of these. drone attacks, it doesn't even seem like. they're from Iran. Some of these drone. attacks on Gulf States. >> like that. One of them um I I don't want. to speak out of tune out of turn because. I don't I'm not exactly sure which ones. they're talking about. They're talking. about one of them on um. either it's a oil refinery. I think it. is an oil refinery that it doesn't seem.

like it came from Iran. >> So, okay. >> Where did it come from? >> That's a good question. >> One of their proxies. >> That's a good question. >> Well, [clears throat] the the fear is a. false flag. That's the fear. Like if you. really wanted to get really scared of. what we're dragged into, >> you're dragged into an ally that's not. telling you the truth and is also doing. some other stuff. >> Well, I'm not even a saying that that's. the case, but a lot of people are. assuming that that's what it is. >> But that's what happens when you have an.

absence of information, >> right? >> And so the moment you have an absence of. information, there's a vacuum and nature. of a vacuum. You need to have that. vacuum filled. So that's where. conspiracies naturally flourish because. 100% because if people don't have. information then they're going to. basically theorize, >> right? >> And part of people theorizing is. conspiracies are going to start. flourishing. >> Well, I think they were basing it on the. where the drone came from like let's see. if we can find some information on that. Jamie, >> I will try. I was it was Jeremy Scill.

was the other. >> That's right. >> reporter on the video. I just find it. amazing now how many people have like a. hard take on like what's going I'm like. what the we don't know a [ __ ] thing. about what's going like the coin is in. the air right and we do not know how. it's going to but everyone's got a take. everyone knows. >> like we do not [ __ ] I don't I don't. think anyone knows like I understand if. you if you work at the White House or if. you work in Russian propaganda or you. work in Chinese propaganda like or if. you work in Iranian like you you've got.

to get your point of view across to try. and persuade people but if you're. actually trying to work out what's. genuinely happening. I don't think. anyone knows how. This is a gamble of. gigantic proportions. >> and nobody knows how it's going to end. Like it's just so unpredictable. And I. can tell you a great story that is like. positive for the for the West, let's. say, or for America. I can tell you a. terrible story and they both sound very. convincing and no one knows which one of. them is true. >> Yeah, that's a very good point. Uh th.

this is the hottake culture, right? Everyone has a take and they want that. take to be the expert take. >> So uh specific drone attack incidents. that call potential false flags. Saudi. Arabia uh Saudi uh Saudi Aramco rather. um oil facility attack. So Iranian. officials deny striking the Saudi Aramco. processing facility and instead suggest. Israel may have carried out that attack. as a false flag to inflamed Gulf opinion. and pull Saudi Arabia more directly into.

the war with Iran. So Ryan Grim. explicitly says he thinks Iran's claims. that Israel hit the Aramco facility need. to be taken seriously and that it's very. possible Israel did it. And this was the. other one, the drone strike on the. British base in Cyprus. That was from. Lebanon, right? >> Yeah. >> Is that what they're saying? >> Yeah. >> May have come from the direction of. Lebanon. He places this in the same. context of Iran claiming Israel carried. out certain attacks in neighboring. states as false flags to blame in Iran.

and drag those countries into the war. >> Those countries, this doesn't make any. logical sense to me because those. countries already in the war. I mean, Saudi Arabia and UAE have been attacked. by Iran because. they were on the phone to Trump. basically asking him to do this. Here's. this is another weird one. The Tucker. Carlson one. >> You saw that, right? >> No. >> So Tucker Carlson said that. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That they had been. arrested that members of MSANDA have. been arrested in Qatar and Saudi Arabia.

>> So, uh, >> but both Qatar and Saudi Arabia have. said it's not true. >> Yeah. They've officially denied such. arrests. Their own Saudi sources also. denied it, though they note details. don't prove it didn't happen, and that. states would almost certainly hide such. arrests if real. Huh. Well, the thing Joe is that these countries, so Saudi Arabia and UAE, Qatar less so, they want this to happen because they. also hate Iran or the Iranian regime, >> right? >> So there is no need for Israel even if.

you you know, if people are tempted to. believe there's no need for Israel to do. this because these countries are already. in it, >> right? And that one of the reasons Iran has. attacked things in Saudi Arabia and in. the UAE is they know that. Right. >> Right. So. >> the Gulf countries are on board with. this. >> Right. So what would uh what would be if. let's assume that the false flag thing. that it's in play? Who would why why. would Israel how would they benefit from. doing that?

>> That's what I'm saying. There is no. rationale that I can think of. >> The people that think the false flag is. real. Like why do they think that? like. what do they think that Israel would. benefit from it? Is there a scenario. where you could imagine it would inflame. things and further support other. countries contributing to the I mean. there's a lot of money that's being. spent on this war, right? It's like this. is insane amount of money just for. munitions, just for missiles. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then rebuilding Iran if. we get to that, right? >> Maybe another resort. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> So, but I just don't see the rationale.

because the the Gulf countries are. already targets for Iran, right? There's. nothing too inflamed. Like the situation. is already pretty [ __ ] inflamed, right? And it's partly inflamed because, as I say, actually the Gulf States and. Israel are pretty aligned on this. particular thing. They are all um at. threat from the Iranian regime. >> Mhm. >> Um so we we had Aean Dean and Richard M. on our show the other day. One of them. is a al-Qaeda MI6 double agent. Another.

one is a really reputable investigative. journalist. Al-Qaeda MI6. Oh, what balls. >> And he has a great podcast now as well. called Conflicted. [laughter]. >> What a great name for a podcast for a. guy who's a double agent. >> What balls that guy must have. >> Yeah. Yeah. He's a really cool guy. But. anyway, I mean, he was explaining that. Saudi Arabia has a population that is. way bigger than what they can sustain in. terms of the water, but they live in the.

[ __ ] desert. So they have these. desalination plants which are extremely. vulnerable. Uh and Saudi Arabia, UAE, these other countries, they felt at huge. risk from Iranian attacks for a long. time. So they none of them like the. Iranian regime that's spreading. terrorism through its proxies. So in. actual fact, dragging them into the war. kind of like there's no sense for that. I think there's a lot of people just. they they go to reaction now whenever. anything happens is that it was Israel's. fault. You know, like Venezuela, [ __ ].

all to do with Israel, but when it. happened, every Israel I think some. people just go to that now as the. automatic response, which it comes back. to what I was saying earlier about the. hottake culture. >> Something happened 3 minutes ago and now. everyone's got a [ __ ] take on it. You. don't know anything. >> None of us know anything. None of us. know how this is going to go cuz this. right now is a highly unpredictable. situation. I don't think the White House. knows how this is going to go. >> No, it's terrifying. It's terrifying and. it's exactly the opposite of what we.

were told leading into this. administration. >> that it's going to be America first, >> right? >> And no more unnecessary foreign wars. >> I There's the other thing that Do you. remember Desert Storm? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Desert Storm. Quick and easy, baby. Woo. We went in, kicked some ass, took some. names. That's a wrap. Pulled out. There. was only one base that got hit, so there. was the the amount of deaths by American. citizens was fairly minimal. I think. that's what got people so confident into. entering Iran after 9/11 or excuse me,

Iraq after 911 to go back like we. already [ __ ] them up once. We're going. to go back and this is going to be easy. Well, it wasn't easy the second time and. it was drawn out and it didn't make any. sense. But people wanted some form of. revenge something for 9/11 and so. somehow or another they justified a war. with a country that had zero to do with. it. Like it didn't even make sense. That. one took for and then we also invaded. Afghanistan at the same time. What do we. do? What the [ __ ] So in the fog of this.

idea of American exceptionalism, we're. just going to go in and fix it. We did. it before. There's no one even close to. us. Well, look how that turned out. >> Yeah. Well, this is completely true. And. then this idea that it's so easy to take. one regime, remove it, and then just put. another one in its place like it's a. Lego block, and then all of a sudden. you're going to magically fix a country. is a fantasy. Like if you take Iran, the. IRGC, which is the Islamic Revolutionary. Guard, numbers around 200,000.

trained soldiers. And not only are they. trained soldiers, they're fanatical. They're fanatics. And then you have the. secret police. And then you have the. regular police. And then you have the. people employed in the government. And. then their families, and so on and so. forth, and then their supporters within. the country. And then you've got the. various factions within Iran like the. Kurds who want independence. So the. moment the the leadership is weakened, they're going to use it as an. opportunity to launch their own. revolution to try and break away from.

the rest of Iran. So you have all of. these particular parts play these. factions and then you think if you take. out the top the tag at the top who's. holding it all together by force I'm not. saying I agree with him or I what he. does you have the very real risk that. the entire country is going to. disintegrate as what happened in Iran in. Iraq sorry. >> and also Libya. >> Yeah. the the idea that you could just take. the guy out and that's a wrap. The.

I mean it doesn't seem like it's well. thought out. >> Well, I mean they would say Venezuela, right? Like regime adjustment. different kind of course. This is a. religious fanatical. It's a totally. different kind of country. Also, it's a. country that's been under threat for. decades, right? So, they've been. preparing for this kind of thing. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And also with Venezuela, it wasn't. a regime change. Practically everybody. who was in the old regime is still. there. >> It's regime adjustment. >> Exactly. Exactly. So Deli Rodriguez was.

one of the senior leaders in Maduro's. regime. They just took out Maduro and. his wife. They put Deli Rodriguez there, but the whole structure, the whole. leadership, the whole party is still in. place. So they've just what they've done. is they put Deli at the top and they've. said to her, "Look, if you [ __ ] about, you're going to get what your boss got. So you're going to follow what we say. You're going to do what we say. You are. going to open up the oil refineries.

We're going to build it. We're going to. you're going to start pumping oil out. You're going to stop messing about with. Hezbollah, which they had training camps. in the island of Margarita, which is a. little Caribbean island 2 and a half. hours away from Miami. Training camps. You can't have that. You're not going to. be fratonizing with the Cubans and. you're going to play ball and. essentially Venezuela is now a colony of. the United States. That's what it's now. become. >> That's wild. Well, there's also the Kurt. Mezer angle, which is hilarious. [laughter]. Kurt Medsker cornered me one night at.

the at the mothership and uh he. explained to me that this is all about. the 2020 election and that Maduro. somehow or another had something to do. with rigging the 2020 election and he's. going to say it as a part of his. testimony. He's like, "Just wait. Just wait. Mark. my words.". >> He's he's convinced of this. >> He goes down the rabbit hole to the. lava. >> [laughter]. >> Like he passes and he's like, "This.

rabbit hole has been covered up. It goes. [laughter] deeper and he keep he keeps. going till he's at the [ __ ] center of. the earth.". >> He's a funny guy, though. >> Oh, he's hilarious. He's hilarious. He's. mentally ill, [laughter] but he's. hilarious. He's one of the funniest. people I know, like, ever. Fantastic. joke writer, too. I mean, he's just. great all around. But Jesus Christ, like. some of his nutty theories, they go so. far. >> Oh, absolutely. I've I've been in in. bars with Kurt where he starts talking. to me and I'm like, "Kurt, I I I don't. even know what we're talking about.

anymore." [laughter]. >> Well, he changes he changes conspiracies. midsentence. [laughter] He starts. bringing up some [ __ ] from the 70s and. it's the Church Committee and this and. that and MK Ultra and don't you know. about Monarch? Like what? Slow down. Like not everybody knows what. you're talking about. But I I think this. is and I love Kurt, but this is kind of. where you feel that the truth isn't. enough. So you there needs to be. something else. >> There needs to be something that goes.

deeper than that. And sometimes there. is, don't get me wrong. Sometimes it. does go deeper, but sometimes like. you're making connections where there. are no connections. Like it's pretty. simple with Venezuela what was going on. They were [ __ ] about and they were. doing it for a long time and they were. doing it in America's backyard and they. had warning after warning and Maduro, the way I'd push back against Kurt is. I'm really sorry Kurt, but Maduro ain't. that bright. >> Well, I don't think he has to be that. bright to finance and make sure and. arrange things because they did there.

was like some something connected to the. voting machines that were there. >> They made those claims. Sydney Powell. was it? >> Yeah. Here we go. She's another fun one. um post 2020 from Trump allies like. Sydney Powell and Rudy Giuliani claiming. Hugo Chavez, Maduro's predecessor, developed rigged software to export to. US firms. These were promoted by figures. like Mike Lindell. He makes a great. pillow. Should listen to him and. amplified on social media, but courts. and fact checks rejected them, including.

Fox News 78787. million uh Dominion settlement. >> Yeah, I was going to say I was pretty. sure that those claims were debunked. Yeah. Not to Kurt. They didn't. [laughter]. He's like, "You guys don't know where. the hard drives are. They're in the. center of the earth. We got to get. there." Um, yeah, that doesn't make much. sense to me. But, uh, neither does this. idea that you're going to take over a. country's oil supply, you know, like. that, you know, we'll just take it. that.

the problem is from the outside like the. rest of the world. You you look at this. unnecessary aggression by the United. States government and then you tack on. whatever propaganda they have already. been spitting out about America for the. last 20 or 30 years and then this war. with Iran gets really ugly. >> because that's how you start a World War. II. You start a World War II by doing. something that. other than people that wanted this. forever. Who else thinks that's a good.

idea? Who else thinks it's a good idea. to just attack a country that isn't. doing anything? They haven't done. anything. Like, if you've proof that. they have developed the depleted uranium. and they've got it up to a point where. it's they've got it to what it what what. percentage does it have to be? Like. they're at 60, right? >> But that's way more than you need. >> Way more than you need, right? So, it. shows that they're at least ramping up. their production where it's possible to. get it to whatever it needs to make. It's way more than you need for civilian. use. Right. Right.

>> Um. >> but that's still it's not clear that. that justifies an invasion when North. Korea has nuclear weapons. >> Right. >> Right. It's like do we just want we just. trying to prevent them from ever getting. to a point where they're like North. Korea? Who the [ __ ] is worried about. North Korea? Zero people. This episode. is brought to you by Squarespace. Look, if you're trying to take your business. seriously, you got to level up your. website. Mine, joggan.com, is powered by. Squarespace. It's a no-brainer because. it does all the hard stuff for you.

They've got everything in one place. You. can lock down your domain, make your. stuff look clean and professional, build. your brand, get paid, all of it. Go to. squarespace.com/rogan. and try it out for free. And when you. are ready to launch, use the offer code. Rogan to save 10% off your first. purchase of a website or domain. >> I think the difference, as you correctly. said earlier, is these people are very. different to the North Koreans, right? North Korea wants to be left the [ __ ].

alone. Iran does not want to be left. alone. Iran wants to dominate the. region. That's why they fund Hamas. It's. why they fund Hezbollah. It's why they. fund the Houthies. It's why they are. doing [ __ ] That's why the Gulf. countries and Israel are very worried. about them. Right. So that's the. difference I think. And then there's. the, you know, uh, some of the people. we've had on the show who are Iranian. have talked about the the what is it. called? 12 Shia Islam. Is that the I. can't remember the details, but. basically they have a kind of messianic.

vision of what's going to happen. And. they they believe that when the world. ends, that's when the prophecy will be. fulfilled. You don't want those guys. with nuclear weapons, right? That's a. good point. >> Yeah. So, from that perspective, it's. different to North Korea. Um, [snorts]. >> and so that that's I think that's part. of the thinking, but your your point is. interesting to me about the fact that. this doesn't reflect what people, you. know, as we're not Americans, but it. doesn't seem to have been part of the. policy platform of the Trump uh election.

at the last election, right? >> No, not at all. >> But I do think there is some kind of. strategy behind all of this, and I'm. very curious what that is. Uh because I. guess if if you think about it. logically, you would say, well, is it an. attempt to effectively push back against. China and Russia infiltrating all these. countries, right? China and and Russia. were very close with V with Maduro in. Venezuela. >> Very very like Francis is saying, Hezbollah training camps, I margarita, where was the oil going? Right. Same.

with Iran. I mean, Iran sells its oil to. China and sends suicide drones to Russia. to use in Ukraine. So maybe [snorts]. it's that maybe the strategy is you're. trying to push back against Chinese and. Russian influence in in all these. countries because you can't attack them. directly because you can't attack them. directly, right? >> Yeah. >> Uh but this is all just guessing on on. my part and that's what I'm really. curious. We're going to do some. interviews on this trip to kind like I. want to get someone on the show who can. go this is the strategy, right? this is.

what we're doing because I think as we. were saying earlier it's not very clear. to most people what the rationale behind. all of this is but I also don't think. this sort of like mad dog Trump idea is. true either I think he has a strategy. I'd just love to know what it is. >> and it's very interesting because. there's been talk about regime change in. Cuba. >> and one of the things so [laughter]. >> I think that's next genuinely. >> oh my god. >> I think that's next. >> so when Chavis came to power in 99. What.

he did, and not enough people talk about. this, is he turned what was uh very. corrupt, admittedly, liberal, western. style democracy into a communist. dictatorship. And how do you do that? You can't just literally do that. overnight. So what he did is he allied. with the Cubans and um Fidel in. particular, Fidel Castro. Venezuela. provided Cuba with cheap oil which. helped to keep the Cuban economy afloat. because Cuba's been going broke since.

however many years, 40 odd years. And. what Castro did was he gave him the. boots on the ground in Venezuela, but. also the technical expertise and knowhow. in order to change a western liberal. democracy into a communist state with. permanent surveillance, secret police, subjugate the population. So there was. no chance of them ever being able to. revolt and m make every and turn. everything into like I said into a. communist state. So by what they did in. Venezuela, Venezuela can no longer.

support Cuba. So Cuba is literally now. withering on the vine as a result of. them knocking out the Venezuelans. M. >> so it's going to come to a point where. you say Cuba effectively going to go. bankrupt which could precipitate an. uprising a revolution by people when. people can no longer eat and that would. mean that that country is then weakened. finally they can get rid of the. communist regime there and they can have. a different type of government one which.

would be far more sympathetic should we. say to working with America and being an. American island possibly. >> that makes sense to me in a way what I. don't understand about the Iran thing is. like what is the end goal here? Well, you've got the Resa Bahavi, the Sha's. son. I mean, he left Iran a long time. ago as a kid, right? The you know, the. idea he's going to go back in there and. be welcomed by the masses. Maybe that's. true. Maybe. >> it's like Daenerys returning to the Iron. Throne. >> Yeah, but Daener Daenerys had three.

[ __ ] dragons, [laughter]. right? >> But you know what I'm saying? Like she. left when she was a baby. >> Yeah, that's right. That's right. And. the pe it's not like the people are. desperately I I don't know maybe the. people are desperate for the return of. the. >> well it seems like some people are. desperate for a change there the people. that were protesting some people that. risk their lives 100%. But like every. country like if you only listen to the. liberals in this country you you would. think that you know that no one's. illegal on stolen land. If you only. listen to the Republicans in this. country you would think we got to find.

every illegal and get them out of our. country and make America great again. like this. It doesn't make sense if we. just go only by the protesters. Like. >> we don't really have accurate polling. because they don't have any free speech. over there. And they they've killed like. famous athletes over there for. protesting. I mean, they killed the. Olympic gold medalist in wrestling. The. UFC tried to step in and tried to do. something to stop it. They they executed. him for just. >> I apparently I don't even think he was. actually protesting. I think he was just.

at a protest. >> He wasn't even saying anything. And this. is the thing you always have to bear in. mind, Joe. Um, >> I might be wrong about that though. >> No, I think you are right. >> Am I right about that? >> The the final details, I'm not sure, but. the fact that he was executed and Dana. worked very hard to try and save that. >> I think there there was some discrepancy. as to whether or not he was actually. participating in the the protest, but. that also could have been the defense, you know? I don't know. But I mean, the. fact that they execute people who. protest, I mean, there's no way you can.

support that kind of that's a scary ass. [ __ ] government and run by religious. fanatics. That's a scary ass government. But the question is like, how scary ass. does it have to get where invading makes. sense because if if this keeps going. like if we we have to go boots on the. ground, that's where things get nuts. >> You can't go boots on the ground, man. You can't you can't, >> right? I don't but I don't think there's. any. >> you should be president of the United. States. [laughter]. >> There's a lot of people are going to. disagree with that. [laughter].

>> No, I I I I don't think that's viable. Just like. >> it might be robot boots on the ground. >> Yeah. >> You know, if Elon gets that factory up. in time. >> What [laughter] I want to know is like. what is it that what is what is it. you're working towards? Right. Right. Like so from what what I understand. talking to some of the people like. Israel would quite like a reslavi. monarchy because the other Middle. Eastern countries that they have peace. with you know Bahrain, Morocco, uh.

increasingly the Gulf States, they're. all monarchies. Right. >> Right. >> Right. >> So they're down with that. But from what. I understand the White House is really. not that interested in Pakavi. And so. what one. >> what do they want? Well, one of the. things that Richard Miner broke on our. show, because it hadn't been reported. anywhere else, was that the White House. has given the Israelis a no kill list, which is basically a list of members of. the current regime that they don't want. to be killed because they have hoped. that these people could then be the.

Rodriguez. equivalent in Iran, right? And I I don't. know that the fanatics within the. Iranian regime who are there now, how. many of them are like this mo like Darth. Vader but like like do you know what I. mean? Yeah. >> You're kind of looking for. >> Darth Vader zero. >> Yeah. No, no, no. No is zero Islamism. [laughter] Like I I don't know that that. exists. Right. >> Right. Sugarfree. >> Sugarree. Islamism free. Yeah. >> So [clears throat] So that's the bit.

And that doesn't mean that there isn't. like a plan, right? >> But I don't know what the [ __ ] that plan. is right now. And I find it hard to see. one, right? >> So regime, evil regime gone. Wonderful. But what but the question is always like. what comes after that, >> right? >> That's always the question. And that's. where I think your point is very true, which is in the past there have been. times where this sort of approach has. gone completely off the rails. >> Yeah, >> that's a fact. >> And it's also as well what has been. coming out of the Trump camp is. contradictory to put it mildly. You have. Hexf saying one thing, you have Trump.

saying another. They contradict each. other at certain points. Is that a. tactic in order to befuddle the. opponent? Maybe. Who knows? Or is it the. fact that they don't actually have a. grand vision? >> Was there some sort of a concession. today on Russian oil? >> Yeah. Well, I think the first of all, Trump let uh India buy Iranian oil and I. think now they are lifting the sanctions. on Russia selling its oil because the. oil prices spiked as much as they did. Right. >> Here it goes. US eases limits on Russian. energy as oil prices sore.

>> Right. [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, you've got the Pink Floyd. t-shirt, so it's appropriate. >> But you you can see it like the oil oil. prices spiked. >> for for what? One day, two days. >> Yeah. >> And everyone went full panic straight. away. But the thing is if that does if. that carries on for two months, the. impact of that on domestic politics, I. mean, I'm not an expert in American.

politics, but even I can say that's. going to be pretty [ __ ] important. >> Oh, it's bad, >> right? >> Yeah, it's going to be bad. I mean, if. oil prices spike, we're [ __ ]. >> Yeah. >> You know, and the Republicans are really. [ __ ]. >> Yeah. And you got the midterms coming. >> You got the midterms coming up in. November. And it's also the momentum. will be in their way. And look, there's, you know, second, third, fourth order. consequences. So, at the moment in the. UK, the vast majority of people find it. are finding it more and more difficult. just to get through to the end of the.

month. >> because of the cost of living, inflation. It's becoming worse and worse. I was. talking to a butcher in my area, which. is this very nice part of North London. You know the type of place I'm talking. about. Everyone loves BLM. No one has a. black friend. That kind of place, right? [laughter]. Okay. That's the kind of area it is. And. he was telling me that even in this very. wealthy area, people are starting to. ration in meat now. So before they'd. have meat 5 days a week, now they're. going down to three or two. And this.

isn't a wealthy area. So now imagine if. there's energy spikes and then food. becomes more and more expensive. There. is already a very worrying. hardleft political movement growing in. the UK where they're talking about, you. know, the capitalism doesn't work. We. need socialism. And there's a there's. this new politician come to the four, a. guy called Zack Palansky, who talks. about what we need in this country and. and the UK is socialism. Now, imagine if. the cost of living crisis gets worse.

And the vast majority of people who work. hard in a regular job can't make ends. meet through literal no fault of their. own. Can you blame them for going, "Hang. on, capitalism doesn't work." Because in. this instance, at that moment, it. doesn't work for them. And then you. could that could spark something. completely disastrous for our country. >> Yeah. But I think you know that's a. negative story. I think it's incredibly. persuasive and I lean more in the. direction that this could go badly. But.

I also think there is the possibility of. this goes well too. I I think that is. possible. Um. >> what do you how do you envision that. scenario? Well, so if if they're able to. keep the straight off open and you don't. have this energy problems that we've got. now, um you know, Venezuela, Cuba, he's. basically resetting the region and he's. basically saying to all the people that. want to align themselves with China and. Russia, like we're not [ __ ] about. here. Do don't cross these lines. That.

is an opportunity to to to address the. slide that the Western world has had. visa v China and Russia for a very long. time. That could be a very positive. thing. My the thing is what happens in. Iran like that is the thing that I don't. really see how that goes well. Might. might do like I said there's probably a. plan that we don't know and if if that. works out that could be very good. >> Does it okay what would you imagine that. plan would be if you if you like let's. let's imagine best case scenario you're.

in the White House. They're all very. rational. No one's being influenced by. foreign governor governments. No one's. incompetent. Everybody knows what. they're doing. >> Well, yeah. I mean, we're in the realms. of fantasy now. [laughter]. >> But I mean, take the Soviet Union, which. is obviously something that I know, right? Being born in the Soviet Union, Russia. Towards the end of the Soviet. Union, you still had some fanatical. communists. And in fact, throughout the. Soviet Union, you always had within the. government a mixture of different. people, right? You had the fanatical.

communists who believed that communism. is the only thing that was ever going to. work, etc. But you also had people who. were reformers. They saw the problems. They saw that the fanatical communists. were ruining things and things were. getting worse, right? They saw that you. had to kill more and more of your own. people to keep the to keep [ __ ] locked. down, right? So the argument could be. within the Iranian revolutionary guard. or the regime more broadly, there are. people who are like, you know, I'm I'm.

I'm not necessarily that keen on on the. guy who runs Syria now, Al Galani, right? He is a jihadi but he's kind of. like a moderate one. You know, you know. how long that I don't know how long it's. going to last. But my point is within. every regime there is some range of. opinion. There is some range of. fanaticism. There is some range of. people who partly for generational. reasons. You know the younger people. have seen uh you know a 40-year history. and they now go okay this isn't working. anymore. We need to try something else. That is possible. So if if the the CIA.

and the White House have someone like. that um and they can do a regime. adjustment and like I think the idea. that you're going to have, you know, multi-parliamentary democracy. with, you know, free and fair elections. and women, you know, like Venice Beach, you know, rollerblading on bikinis on. I. don't know that that's going to happen, right? But what you might have is an. authoritarian regime of some kind like.

many other countries in the Middle East. which realizes that actually economic. growth is more important than shouting. Alahaga every 3 minutes and blowing [ __ ]. up, right? that focuses on making life. better for their citizens that you know. practices traditional Muslim values. which many countries do and says you. know women ought to be modest but. doesn't force them to wear the burka or. or or or the the headscarf or whatever. or and uh is less interested in. destabilizing the region and attacking.

others and trying to be this great power. and is more interested in just. prosperity for its own people survival. for them for themselves ves as a regime. and is willing to play ball with the. United States. I I mean. >> well said. Yeah. Well said. That's best. case scenario. >> That's best case scenario. Now, if you. get there, you I think that would be a. huge win for President Trump and it' be. a huge win for the world and he will. walk away from that with a huge win. And. I think you know you're better expert on. the American people, but I think. American people like winning, right? So,

if you have all this happen, he can then. say, well, look, we did this, we did. this, we did this, Russia and China have. been pushed back. we got to, you know, the situ is not going to get a nuke, which is important. I think we can all. agree on that, right? >> Yeah. >> Um there is the possibility that he. comes out of this very well. >> I I think that based on what I see, but. I don't know, coming back to what we. said, I think we've shared this kind of. perspective really, Francis and I, that. seems somewhat less likely at this. point, at least harder to see, but I.

think you can tell a persuasive story. both ways. I really do. >> That makes sense. And what what you're. saying I think is very valid that we. need to abandon any idea of them having. some sort of a democracy over there. It's it's not going to happen. >> No. >> Um and you know you do look at the. relationships that we have with other. Gulf state. >> nations. >> seems fine. Right. It's not threatening. to us. We would like everyone to be free. and have the same sort of liberal. democracy that we have in America. But.

okay, you like that all want that all. day long. You can't do anything to. change the way other people govern. themselves. Especially when you've. gotten to the point where like. take any of the Middle Eastern countries. for example, these some of these people. are worth trillions of dollars. These. royal families have been running it. forever. They have insane amounts of oil. money. >> Good luck. >> Good luck getting them out of there. like good good luck saying uh we should. just vote, you know, and have a.

president and you don't have any power. anymore. Like how how are you going to. pull that off? Especially if things are. going well for the people that live. there. Like like I have a friend who. moved to Dubai. >> and uh he's an American and uh he moved. back to America recently, but he was. over there and he said, "Dude, you could. leave a Rolex on the street and people. would pick it up and bring it to the. police. >> Like it's so safe." He's like, "There's. no crime." and he's black and she he's. like, "I worry when I go out in America. I'm going to get shot. I'm worried I'm. going to go to a club and someone's.

going to start beefing and shooting up. the place and I'm going to get hit." He. goes, "I don't think about that at all. over here. There's none of that." He. goes, "It's safer." Is he Is it [ __ ]. up that you know it's run by a king? >> I I guess is there is it that much. different than a president? I mean, in. in a way, like it's a leader, right? You've got more checks and balances over. here. You've got Congress. You got the. Senate. You got all this [ __ ] going on. with the Supreme Court. You have all. these different human beings that also.

have a say and can block things. And but. at the end of the day, we're still under. this bizarre alpha male chimpanzee. structure that has existed from the time. that we were 150 people in a [ __ ]. tribe, right? So, it's still one guy. running things. It's just running things. their way. And if you were a citizen in. Dubai, pretty [ __ ] good, right? >> Right. Well, your point about the UAE is. really interesting because not only is. on the practical level of safety and.

other things, but also uh they don't. have the Islamism problem, right, >> that we have in Britain and increasingly. you guys are starting to see here. >> because they recognize that it's a. problem and they deal with it. So, I. don't know if you saw this news story. The UAE no longer gives sponsorships to. their students to go to the UK because. they're worried their kids are going to. get radicalized by Islamists in Britain, >> which is [ __ ] wild. >> Yeah, that is [ __ ] wild.

>> And you I mean you you you were. messaging me about the story with the. Mandani situation, right, yesterday? Yes. >> You now have this problem in America. >> Yeah. Yes. You have the Islamism problem. here where people who are supporters of. ISIS are thrown. I mean, your media is. pretending it's not happening, but it's. [ __ ] happening. >> Well, it happened in Austin, >> right? >> I mean, the guy who shot up that bar. >> Um, >> because this is a. >> send that article to Jamie. Jamie, you. could probably find it on CNN because. it's kind of hilarious. >> Incredible. This was actually.

incredible. >> The New York Times title change thing. >> Did the New York Times change their. title? Yeah, >> they did with the [laughter]. >> I wonder why. >> I'm going to send you the CNN one first. [snorts]. >> Um the CNN one is is really wild. I'm. >> called they had like fuses of things. with smoke or something. They change it. to bombs or something. >> Yeah, [ __ ] duh. Uh I'm sending you. this one cuz the CNN one is, believe it. or not, more preposterous. The CNN one. is so kooky. You you you see their.

headline, you're like, "What? What kind. of story are you painting here? Like. this is such a crazy way to frame a guy. showed up with bombs and was hurling. them at people. >> Well, they made it sound like the exact. opposite of what actually happened. >> Well, it sounded like it was just a. regular day. Just [laughter] regular. just regular day for this fella. And. then things just went a little sideways. somewhere along the way. >> Listen, we've all got hobbies, man. You. know what I mean? You like working out. He has nail bombs. Come on.

>> Yeah. >> Did you get it, Jamie? It's. >> not It's not coming through. >> No. Look, when I uh It's not loading. there. >> Oh, interesting. But let me um see if. they took it down. >> I'd guess they would have. You probably. have an old link that. >> Okay, that's the New York Times one. [clears throat] I sent you on for Oh, well that No, that's the one I just. clicked on. Let me check the uh original. one. Nothing to see here. Interesting. [laughter]. >> Uh they probably deleted it. Okay, here. I found it. I found it. Two Pennsylvania. teenagers crossed into New York City. Saturday morning for what could have.

been a normal day enjoying the city. during abnormally warm weather. But in. less than an hour, their lives were. drastically changed as the pair would be. arrested for throwing homemade bombs. Like [laughter]. she that's that's that is CNN's tweet. Um I'm going to send you a screenshot. cuz I do believe they've taken it down. >> They bur them. >> Um yep. Nothing to see here yet. Yeah, they took it down. >> That's not a headline though. Let's take. a second. >> No, no, no. I'm I I'm going to send you. the uh actual tweet because they did.

take it down because it's so [ __ ]. ridiculous. But uh the internet never. forgets. Um I'm sending it to you here. Thank god I saved it. It took a. screenshot cuz I'm like this is such a. crazy way to frame. >> Yeah. >> two guys wanted to do a terror attack. >> Yeah. >> But it's not an accident, Joe. It's not. crazy. >> You know it's not crazy. >> No. Look. Look how it's framed here. This is the original tweet. Two. Pennsylvania teenagers, just regular. fails from from PA from Philly. Two.

Philly boys had a couple of cheese. steaks and then got on the train. [laughter]. >> crossing New York City Saturday morning. for what could have been a normal day. enjoying the city during abnormally warm. weather. Why the [ __ ] would you even say. that? Could have been a normal day if. they weren't going there to commit. terrorism. >> Do you know what it reads like? It reads. like when I used to teach uh 13year-olds. creative writing. That's how they'd all. start off. You know, it was like a. normal day. And. >> I mean, is the I'd like to know who. wrote who wrote that. Who's the person. who wrote that? And I want to know if.

were you were we directed to write it. that way or. >> who approved it? Yeah. Who edited it? >> Are you trying to downplay the. possibility of first of all now in New. York because you have a a guy who's an. avowed whatever he is, democratic, socialist, some say communist, but also. Muslim. And then you have these. Islamists who are doing a terrorist. attack. So like are you trying to soften. that? Are you trying to soften it? >> So what what happened just so people. know is there was a protest outside. Mdani's mansion.

>> Right. >> Right. And then these two people turned. up and threw bombs at the protesters and. the way it was reported you if you just. read that and no other stuff you would. have come away from with the conclusion. that it was the protesters who were the. targets of the bombs. they were the ones. that threw the bombs. No one officially. said that's what happened. But the way. they did the story and the headline, you. would have got that impression and. you're just going, "Well, you were just. on a team. You see this as a team game,

right? And you want to present your team. in the correct light.". >> Oh, the new new post, a post regarding. two individuals arrested for throwing. handmade bombs outside of New York City. Mayor Zuhan Mandani's home failed to. reflect the gravity of the incident. thereby breaching the editorial. standards we require for all our. reporting. It has therefore been. deleted. >> But see how skillful this is, Joe. This. is gaslighting again. They're saying. their mistake was to what? >> Look at the first [laughter].

guy. Donut operator. Nah. You retards. got called out for trying to downplay. actual terrorism and now you're. backpedaling. Yep. >> Who's that second guy? He's really. smart. [laughter]. >> Didn't fail to reflect the gravity of. the situation. This guy named. Constantine. I think he's on that. trigonometry show. Uh reflect the. gravity of the situation. It failed to. accurately communicate who was. responsible, who the intended victims. were, and where to the the blame for the. attempted terrorist attack lay. In other. words, you didn't accidentally downplay. the serious seriousness of it. You. deliberately misrepresented what.

happened to conceal the truth from the. public. Well, that's how AI would say. it. [laughter]. >> I still write my own [ __ ] John. >> I know you do, but I like the donut. operator guy. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah, I know. He's more your cup of tea. >> That's how I like to talk. >> That is what happened though, right? >> That is what happened. But that's what's. really scary about this world we're. living in now right now because we're. we're so ideologically captured both. right and left. Everyone in this country. looks at this administration as an.

existential threat to democracy itself. and our way of life and, you know, fill. in the blank whatever marginalized. groups are all going to be round up and. put in interment camps. This is this is. the narrative that the the most radical. of the left have about that the sky is. falling because Trump's in office. >> But it's also as well what people on the. left don't want to acknowledge is the. dangers of Islamism, right? when they. see people do these kind of horrific. terror attacks, when they see for. instance what happened in the London.

Bridge terror attacks in 2019 or what. happened in Manchester in the Ariana. Grande concert where Islamic terrorists. bombed a Ariana Grande concert and the. majority of the audience were little. girls were young girls and they say, "Oh, that this happened because you know. they were marginalized and they felt. angry and this is what people do when. you push them to one side and they don't. have a means in order to how to express. themselves. You're going no what this is. is an ideology. It's an ideology which.

believes that our civilization, our way. of life is evil, but also they want to. establish their form of radical Islam. across the globe. They want to create a. global Islamic caliphate and they will. do whatever it takes in order to achieve. that goal. But people in the west they. can't understand that because it's so. alien for how we see how we see things. We believe human life is precious. We. believe the most important thing is. human life. They don't. They believe the. cause is more important than your life.

And we can't understand that because. we're raised in a world that is. fundamentally Christian even though we. might not be. We still have Christian. values. We had a guest on the show, a. wonderful historian called Tom Holland, and he explained this to us that even if. you're not Christian, even if you think. you were raised by atheist parents, you. were still raised with Christian values. That's the soup in which we live. That's. what the water in which we swim. So this. way of life that these people have, this.

ideology is so alien to us that we can't. understand it. But also we don't want to. understand it because if you start to. actually investigate what these people. believe, what their ideology is, you. realize that we are not all the same and. these people believe something very very. different and then we're going to have a. very uncomfortable conversation of how. do you tackle this cuz can you have. western liberal democratic values and. Islamism and people who are Islamists in.

the same society and the answer is you. can't. >> and I think it's really important your. point the difference between Islamists. and Muslims. >> Yes. >> The Muslims are these Gulf State people. Muslims are these people in Dubai and. Saudi Arabia. Islamists are the ones. that want the caliphate. >> Yeah. Right. >> But then you have the crazy Christians. and that thing that I sent you, the. Yahoo thing that we talked about. yesterday with Shelonburgger. >> The Yahoo thing is nuts. So these. military leaders, so this this comes. from one of the non-commissioned. officers who went to a briefing. He goes.

to a briefing and they inform him that. you shouldn't be scared because this is. all because President Trump is anointed. by Jesus and this is to bring about. Armageddon so that Jesus returns to. Earth. This isn't a [ __ ] military. briefing. One such note included an. anecdote from a non-commissioned officer. who reported that their commander had. urged us to tell our troops this war was. all a part of God's divine plan. And he. specifically referenced numerous. citations out of the book of Revelations.

referring to Armageddon and the eminent. return of Jesus Christ. This is [ __ ]. crazy. Um he said this morning our. command So this is this is an officer. who's talking about this. This morning. our commander opened up the combat. readiness status briefing by urging us. to not be afraid as to what was. happening with our combat operations in. Iran. He said, "President Trump has been. anointed by Jesus to light the signal. fire in Iran to cause Armageddon and. mark his return to Earth." He said he. had a big grit on his face when he said.

all this, which made his message seem. even more crazy. >> Well, that's reassuring. [laughter]. >> That's that Well, this is this is the. scary arm of the the right. This is the. scariest arm of the right. The the. people that think that this is one of. the main reasons, the Makabe people who. think this is the main reason to protect. Israel. It's a part of God's plan. You. know, Israel is where Jesus is going to. return. He's going to return to. Jerusalem. >> Yikes. >> Yeah. I've never really understood that. Like, I think you can argue for you can.

be pro- Israel for pragmatic reasons. This religious stuff is a little bit. weird to me. Well, this but the problem. is you've got fanatics like the. Islamists, but you've also got these. >> Christian hard right Christian. nationalists that really believe that. this is a part of biblical prophecy. >> and that they this is book of. revelations. It's about to go down and. they they want it to go down. >> This is [ __ ] terrifying. This is.

really interesting for us because in in. in the UK, Christianity has be dig. fanged to the point where there's a. trans flag on practically every church. So this idea of having these hardcore. right-wing fundamentalist Christians, we. we just don't experience that. >> We don't have that really. >> Yeah. It's like can't any everybody live. in the middle? Why why do you have to go. all the way over to we got to start. Armageddon and Jesus [laughter] Jesus is. going to come back on a white horse? You. ever read the book of Revelations? >> Yeah, I got really into it. The book of.

Revelations is kooky. You know, they. they really believe that Jesus is going. to return on a horse. >> Why a horse? >> A white horse? >> It's a bit racist. >> a little bit. [laughter]. I mean, I don't get. I don't. >> Can we have a diverse horse at least for. >> a horse of color joke? >> You want me to read you the passage? Cuz. I I saved it cuz it's kind of kooky. Um. because it's one of those things where. you just go, "Wait, who [ __ ] believes. this? Is this is is this really what you. think is going to go down because. someone wrote it down on paper 2,000.

years ago in. >> in ancient Hebrew. Uh it says, "Heaven. opens and Christ appears on a white. horse to judge and wage war called. faithful and true with eyes like fire, many crowns and the name King of King. and Lord of Lords." Just imagine it's. 2026 and you're like, "That's the. blueprint, boys." [laughter]. But this is just as scary. And. especially for people that are Muslims, right? Or or anybody who lives in the. Middle East, like they this is more.

important than human life. This is more. important than international law. This. is like in the eyes of the crazy on the. right. >> This is the problem. So it's like it's. not it's not like one side. It's like. all good over here. We have to fight. against the Islamist. Now we we've got. some cooks over here, too. If if that. guy is for real and that guy's in a. position of power and he's really having. combat readiness meetings where he's. telling people that we have to bomb and. start Armageddon so Jesus can come back. on a white horse.

>> [ __ ] yo. >> like that's kooky. >> The thing that is probably reassuring. somewhat is like I don't President Trump. doesn't strike me as one of those. people. He's not. >> He's not. Right. >> Whereas the leader of Iran is. >> right. But people in the military I. think are as well. Yeah. and people in. high positions in the military, I think. maybe as well. If if this guy can give. that kind of a meeting and and that kind. of a speech at a meeting, that that's a. little terrifying. And if I was over. there, I'd be freaking the [ __ ] out. If. I'd be like, "This is your plan.

>> I'm cannon fodder so that Jesus can come. back. My body's going to be part of the. the [ __ ] signal fire.". >> Let's be honest though, it wouldn't be. that much of a plot twist for 2026, would it? >> Right. It would be the final, you know, episode 10, Game of Thrones season 6. [laughter]. >> Yeah, it's I mean, it is getting [ __ ]. what? And that's when the aliens come. Maybe that's what they're doing. >> You know, the the whole thing is uh it's. there's not a sane person on either.

side. >> The whole thing is nuts. And it's like. it does it it doesn't make sense to. anybody. And that's what scares the [ __ ]. out of me. >> Yeah. It's the thing that scares me is. what Constantin has has addressed is I. don't get worried unless I can't see a. way out or the way that this is. resolved. And like you said, the coin is. in the air. >> and I'm slightly of more more. pessimistic nature. He's more of an. optimist. But as I I look at it and I.

think to myself, this could go so wrong, >> so [snorts] badly wrong that it could. make it could make Iraq look like an. absolute picnic in comparison. >> Yeah. Well, especially if terrorist. attacks start popping off over in. America, like major ones, >> you know, and that that could be bad for. everything. That could be bad for. freedom of speech. That could be bad for. rights. >> That could be bad for, you know, in. incorporation of digital ID. That would. be a good way to push that through. There's a lot of stuff that would go.

through that would radically change just. like the Patriot Act did. Patriot Act. radically changed the freedoms that we. have in America and the overreach that. the government is allowed to. >> You're so right. But we we only just. started being allowed to take water back. on the [ __ ] planes. Right. >> Right. [laughter]. >> Maybe this is what it's all about. It's. so you can't take water on a plane. >> You decide to let people keep their. sneakers on. Wasn't that going on for a. while? >> Yeah. You can't can't have [laughter]. that. We had one [ __ ] shoe bomber. That Richard [ __ ] that one guy. One. guy.

>> And there was once, do you remember you. weren't allowed to bring scissors. [snorts] on? Like a small scissors. I. can't remember the comedian who said. this, but he went, "You know what? If. you take over an entire plane armed with. nothing but water and some small. scissors, you deserve the plane.". >> Well, here's the thing. Like, you can. bring skateboards, but you can't bring a. pool queue. >> So, it doesn't make any sense. Like, there's the like I I [ __ ] you up with a. skateboard. If you [laughter] give me, I'll [ __ ] a lot of people up with a. skateboard, you know? Like, think about. what kind of damage you could do with. that big heavy ass thing,

>> you know? >> Yeah. It's just And the the worry is. when it comes to all of this is you look. at these guys and you go, do you have a. vision for what is actually going to. happen, >> right? But I do think they do though. I. do think they have a vision. What I want. to find out is what that vision is. >> I hope you're right, but I don't think. you are. >> You don't think I am? Uh I I think it's. very possible that they thought this. would be over much quicker. They thought. taking out the I look look just look at. the success that they had in the initial.

bombing of Iran, right? The initial. bombing they supposedly decapitated. their ability to make nuclear bombs or. at least stopped it for a long time. And. there was a lot of concessions that the. Iranians were willing to submit to that. they never submitted to under Obama or. anybody else. >> And that wasn't enough, >> right? So the the problem is when you're. like we were talking about Desert Storm, you get away with something that works. really well. You're like, "We know what. we're doing.". >> And then you bite off more than you. could chew. >> Yeah. And especially once you've done. Venezuela, you feel like you're kind of.

>> you're on a roll, >> right? >> But yeah, I I see your point. I see your. point. Um I do think though, I mean, from what I read, uh both Kushner and. Witoff both said that the Iranians were. not playing ball actually. Um. >> Okay, which is why they went in. So. obviously if you think about it given. how long it takes for US assets to get. to the region this decision would have. been made weeks ago at the very least. right and that's because from what I. understand the negotiators like Iran. isn't actually playing ball what they're.

doing is they're claiming publicly that. they're willing to make concessions but. when we sit down with them that's not. what's happening because all they're. doing is stalling for time. >> That makes more sense. And so if you. were worried that someone was in the. middle of actually getting their uranium. up to a point where you enrich it to. nuclear bomb levels, >> right? But I think a lot of people. misunderstand that in the sense that. like um I think it's based on my. understanding it's totally false to. claim that they were like about to. develop a nuclear they were not. >> Well, you've seen the compilation of.

Netanyahu saying Iran is two weeks away. from developing a nuclear bomb all the. way back to the 80s. Have you seen that. compilation? >> I haven't. No. It's wonderful, >> right? >> See if you can find it, Jamie. Because. it's so it's so kooky. I mean, he's been. talking about this for [ __ ] ever, right? They're that close. They're two. weeks away. They're two weeks away. They're two weeks away. >> And you know, maybe they are, >> you know, and maybe Stuckset put a dent. in that, right? They they used that um. virus program to kill all the computer. programs that were running.

>> their nuclear program over there. >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I I don't know that. they were ever like two weeks from. having a a payload that was ready to be. delivered to wherever, but they are they. were enriching uranium to to levels that. you only enrich if you want nuclear. weapons, right? >> Uh and so I guess the question for Trump. is like, do I allow this to continue? And do I have to wait until they've got. the [ __ ] bomb on a launcher waiting. to to go? Right. >> here it is. >> Yeah, >> let's hear it. You've probably heard. this line before. Iran has never given.

up its quest for nuclear weapons and the. missiles to deliver them. >> That's because Israeli Prime Minister. Benjamin Netanyahu has been saying this. for more than 30 years, claiming Iran is. close to having. >> nuclear weapons. Nuclear weapons, nuclear weapons, atomic bombs. >> In 1992, as a member of parliament, Netanyahu addresses the Knesset. He says. within 3 to 5 years we can assume that. Iran will become autonomous in its.

ability to develop and produce a nuclear. bomb. 3 years later in his book Fighting. Terrorism he repeats the same time frame. 3 to 5 years. >> Thank you Mr. Chairman. >> Fast forward to 2002. Netanyahu. testifies before a US congressional. committee actively calling for the. invasion of Iraq. Uh, are there any. other nations that you would recommend. that the United States launch preemptive. attacks upon? At this point, >> the two nations that are vying competing.

with each other who will be the first to. achieve nuclear weapons uh is Iraq and. Iran. >> The invasion happens months later. >> You keep going on this. >> are found in Iraq. This is a fragment of a 2009 US State. Department cable released by Wikileaks. Netanyahu tells members of Congress that. Iran is one or two years away from being. capable of developing nuclear weapons. >> They're online.

>> It's 2012 and Netanyahu is holding up. his infamous cartoon bomb at the UN. General Assembly. >> By next spring, at most by next summer. at current enrichment rates, they will. have finished the medium enrichment. and move on to the final stage. From there, it's only a few months, possibly a few weeks. before they get enough enriched uranium. for the first bomb.

>> And now, 33 years after Netanyahu's. first so-called imminent warning, Israel. attacks Iran. >> And if not stopped, Iran could produce a. nuclear weapon in a very short time. It. could be a year. It could be within a. few months, less than a year. That's. despite the US director of national. intelligence saying Iran isn't building. a nuclear weapon months earlier. >> Iran lied. >> But for Netanyahu. >> big time, >> the slogan has been the same for.

decades. >> Like how he said big time alazer, >> we get it. >> Yeah. [clears throat] So, but here's the. thing. Maybe he's kind of right, but. they haven't ever done it. >> right. Yeah. Yeah. Well, they certainly. are enriching uranium to a point where. it's more than you need for power. >> Right. So why why are they doing that? >> Right. >> Right. And so I guess for Trump the. calculation is like I'm in my last term. I might as well, you know, roll the.

dice. Go go go and deal with it now. Could end very badly as we've discussed. >> Yeah. >> There is a way that it ends. Well, we. will see what happens. And we I I just. honestly don't think anyone knows how. it's going to happen. >> I don't think anyone knows. But you How. can you? So many moving parts. It's like. if I ask you who's, you know, Dana White. just announced the UFC card for the. White House, right? Yeah. >> Who's going to win Justin Gai? You you are not going to say this is. what's going to happen, >> right? You don't know. >> cuz nobody knows. Yeah. >> Right. And this is like a hundred times.

more complicated than that, >> right? Yeah. >> Yeah. At least. >> At least. [laughter] Yeah. >> Yeah. Probably several thousand times. more. So, it's a it's a gamble. And you. got to I I mean, you've got to think if. this goes badly, this is legacy defining for all. involved. >> For all involved. >> Yeah. >> This will this will whatever you've done. up to that point, it's like Blair and. Bush. >> Mhm. >> Tony Blair, people forget in our. country, Tony Blair was immensely. popular.

and then Iraq happened. And the only if. you mention Tony Blair now, the only. thing anyone remembers is Iraq. So for. context, Tony Blair was one of the. people. Tony Blair is a hero in Kosovo. because he effectively stopped the large. part of the reason the war in Kosovo. ended was Tony Blair. I think there was. something I saw a story that kids were. people were naming their kids Tony. Blair, right? >> They regret it now. [laughter]. >> He was one of the central people in the.

Northern Ireland peace deal bringing. peace to Northern Ireland for people of. our age who grew up in the UK. We never thought we'd see peace in. Northern Ireland. Northern Ireland was a. glorified civil war and it had been for. however long right the way from the 60s. the 70s the 80s and he was one of those. people instrumental in bringing peace to. Northern Ireland. It was a miracle. It. was an it was a total miracle that that. happened the Good Friday Agreement. And. it was other people as well like Mo. Mullen etc. So you look at Blair he was.

on a roll. He he must have thought to. himself, everything I do turns to gold. here. I have achieved peace in Kosovo, peace in Northern Ireland. Why can't I. invade Iraq and Afghanistan and install. democracies and bring peace to the. Middle East? I've done it to Northern. Ireland. No one ever thought that could. happen. >> So this will whichever way it goes, I. think it will be defining for the people. involved. If it goes well, this is like.

the biggest, you know, uh, Hail Mary. touchdown in history. In some ways, goes. badly, that will define this. I certainly from. an outside perspective, that's what I. see. It's going to define the the. presidency. I mean, I I don't know how. you can argue with that really. Can you? >> No. No, I don't know how you can argue. with it either. But that's what that's. what's so interesting about people that. absolutely know how it's going to play. out. >> You know, you don't. And then there's. also uh the New York Times thing. I sent. it to you. Did they change that, Jamie, or did they take it down?

>> I I just sent it to you. >> So, what does it say? So, does New York. Times still have it up? >> It's from a day ago, it says. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Crowd gathered on Monday. They didn't. say which Monday. [laughter]. >> Yeah, >> it was a Monday. It just It was just six. [ __ ] years ago. >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. that and then again this is. this is the problem where everything is. polarized and politicized. >> Well, I think your point about people.

wanting to believe something is so true. >> If if if whenever anything like this. happens, you instantly get these camps, right? You've got the anti-war camp, you've got the pro-war camp, you've got. the this camp, you've got the. anti-Israel camp, you've got the. pro-Israel camp, and everyone like. information is no longer about. information, >> right? >> It's just foder for your information war. that you're fighting. >> Exactly. And then on top of that, and. look, this is a kind of I'm cutting my. own balls off here because I I make good. money from posting stuff on X, right?

But the monetization of content has made. things different. And we can all see it. in our feed, right? Yeah. >> You've seen this. I mean, you must see. it. >> So now you have people who are basically. like I go on Twitter on X to express my. opinion. >> and to engage in discussion with people. who have a different opinion. That's. what I do, right? But there are now lots. and lots of people who go to work. They. go to X to work, >> right? >> And that's what they're doing now. The. incentive structure of that is not.

conducive to a healthy debate, >> right, >> at all. What you've got now is people. going, "Okay, a thing has happened. What. is my Venezuela got in? It was Israel's. fault. Okay, here's here's some content. about that.". >> And it's no longer authentic. communication, unfortunately. >> And that's just actual people doing it, >> right? Yeah. >> And then you've got AI on top of that. And then you've got foreign bot farms. >> and foreign governments trying to. influence this [ __ ]. >> There's this one currently popular. [snorts]. page that I follow that's clearly AI.

You mean you could just read it and tell. that it's AI and it gets immense amounts. of engagement. Heavy heavily right-wing. like really well written, you know, funny, >> you know, and you could but not but. yeah, but not human. Not not funny. real. funny but funny technically funny. You. know what I'm saying? Like tech insults. that are technically funny but for. whatever reason you don't digest it. It's like remember that stuff [laughter]. get fat but it just went right through.

you like diarrhea. >> That's what it's like. >> It's got no soul. There's no soul to. >> it. That's just one. I mean how many how. many of them exist and how many state. actors are running bot farms? >> Yeah. >> So it's we don't know what the [ __ ] is. going on at any given time. No, >> but it's the incentives that have become. perverted because it's no longer like. Constantin said about expressing opinion. or wanting to get involved in dialogue. or debate. What you've got now is people. like you said earning their livingings. So if you know if you need to pay your.

mortgage at the end of the month or you. need to pay a team or you have a. company, you're not going to put out a. nuance take. Why would you? It's going. to get minimal engagement. You are going. to put out something that is going to. trigger, that is going to be incendury, that is going to drive engagement, that. is going to get people upset or angry. and agree or agree with you and. therefore more likely to share. So. that's the content you're going to put. out cuz that's the content that's going. to make you the most do. >> 100%. >> And then you have people that are. pushing for this idea that no one should.

be able to post online unless you're. using your real name. >> and you show some sort of an ID, >> which is also kind of crazy. Yeah, there's downsides to that for sure, but. I also I do understand why they're. saying it. >> I understand it, too. I just think it's. a slippery slope that stops all. whistleblowers. And imagine you are a. regime critic in Iran and you're trying. to post news from Iran under you know. there's definitely but I you know I. think Jordan Peterson was actually one. of the first people that suggested this. thing and I understand why.

>> because. >> the way it's like the windscreen the. windshield effect in your car the way. you and I behave face to face is not the. way people will behave when they're. sitting in their truck and someone cut. them up in traffic. Yeah. So, I understand it. >> But times a million. >> Times a million, right? And then you've. got foreign bots and all this [ __ ]. >> And then taking away people's right to.

anonymity online, like [ __ ] me that, you. know, the second, third, fourth order. consequences of that. >> Yeah. >> Are pretty [ __ ] crazy as well. I. found another picture. >> of [clears throat] that area from what. it says it was yesterday. >> So I don't know that it was not real. >> So this is from which website. >> it says uh I typed it into Perplexity. and I'm clicking around on pictures to. find out where they're coming from one. by one. >> So is it possible that this is that the. New York Times put the wrong footage but.

it was a similar kind of protest in the. same spot? Yeah, that's my. understanding. >> This is a similar photo. This is an AP. source on this photo. >> Okay. So, all the New York Times did is. get the wrong photo of a bunch of people. gathering. >> I'll note this one, which is at night, so it is definitely a different photo. This is from January. >> Mhm. >> This one is. >> Yeah. But this is not the same photo. that we looked at before. >> Right. So, the other one though, >> this one is from a day ago. Very. similar.

>> Well, that's very different right there. That's small. Well, but it's the same. angle of of this little pool or whatever. is on it. So, what they did was just use. the wrong footage, but a similar sort of. a protest. So, it was just an. unfortunate error, not like reframing. the narrative with propaganda. that I'm. not sure cuz even these comments is like. AI and it's fake photo but that's why I. was trying to find other sources of it. not. >> what does Grock have to say. >> that I mean I used our perplexity to do. it and it's. >> right but I mean on the post usually if.

someone posts something on they say. Grock is this true is this footage legit. >> oh that's it okay it's on Instagram. >> I could find it on. >> and so Perplexity says that there is a. legitimate size protest that's like. >> yeah I just asked if crowds gathered. there yesterday and says thous multiple. Reports indicate that thousands of. people gathered in the central square in. Tan yesterday. Show support and pledge. allegiance to new supreme leader. How do. you say his name? >> Uh. >> Moabani. Mojaba Kmeni.

>> Mojaba. >> He's the son of the guy they killed. >> Yeah. >> How many people have they killed so far? Like the the leaders there's. >> I don't know, but it it's probably up to. the low hundreds, I would imagine, >> because they had one guy last week that. was the new guy and they whacked him. almost immediately. Yeah, I didn't tweet. this, but when this guy was appointed, I. wanted to say like congratulations to. him and condolences to his family. [laughter]. >> I was like, this is a bit full on. >> Yeah. >> The problem is, you're right. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't think he's going to last. very long cuz he seems pretty hardline. as well. >> Yeah. Well, I mean, they killed his dad. >> Yeah. That doesn't that doesn't that. doesn't tend to dradicalize you very. much. >> You know, that's going to piss you off. >> Yeah. So Jamie put in, "Did the New York. Times use an old photo for this event?". Evidence so far suggests the New York. Times used a recent photo for this. week's gathering, not an old archive. image, though many commenters have. accused the opposite. Interesting. Instagram's own post of the square.

crowd. Multiple Iranian users claim the. image is fake or AI or from 2020, and. several assert that it's not. representative of real public sentiment. However, another Facebook thread. referencing the same image states that. it was taken by New York Times. photographer Arash. Kamushi Kamushi on Monday, March 9th, 2026, which matches the article date and. captions used by other outlets showing. the same scene. >> See, this is the the fog of confusion.

that [clears throat] exists on social. media. >> Yep. >> Isn't it worrying that we can no longer. tell what's real? We can we're already. at that point. And when you think of. where we were last year where you could. really tell pretty much what was AI and. what wasn't right now we're in the murky. waters of is this isn't it? It's going. to come to a point pretty soon where. it's everything is going to look ex like. real life. >> Well, as soon as AI can't detect it, that's when we're [ __ ] right? And. then so I talked to Mark Andre about. this and his recommendation was that.

everything she should be on the. blockchain. So you you you're going to. be able to tell whether or not footage. has been altered, what the you know what. the chain of custody of this image has. been, where it started, where you know. >> I mean it's terrifying, isn't it? >> Oh, it is. Yeah. >> Because you're going to think is that. going to be the end of journalism. really, >> right? Is that going to be almost I. think we're talking about this and this. is really really important but what's. coming with AI is even more important.

and no even the people you talk to in. the field have no idea what's going to. be the second third fourth order. consequence. >> right. >> I know it it I mean there's so much to. be excited about with AI I think it. blinds a lot of people to the like not. exciting parts of it. >> well well ultimately if you just looked. at where what is it ultimately going to. lead to? It's going to lead to something. that's way smarter than us. And why. would it listen to us anymore? >> Well, you've seen I'm sure you've seen.

the stuff about how it will blackmail, right? So that by definition that means. it has a survival instinct. >> Yeah. >> And if it has a survival instinct, by. definition, it means there is a priority. that it has which is above humans. >> Yeah. >> By definition, that's what a survival. instinct means. It means you care more. about yourself than you do about anyone. else. Right. >> Right. So if AI has a survival instinct, we are not going to be its number one. priority. >> Not only that, it doesn't seem to.

differentiate between using nuclear. weapons or other weapons. And when you. they've done these war game simulations. with a AI, they prefer to use nuclear. weapons. >> Well, they're more effective, right? [laughter]. >> But this is the thing like they're not. scared of this idea like, oh my god, you're just going to dust a city. They're like, oh, that's the way to do. it. >> The numbers on a chart, right? Well, you. want to get your goal accomplished. How. does AI accomplish its goal with. whatever the best available is? Oh, that's bomb. >> Yeah. >> It's efficient. >> Yeah. >> You know, and then a mutual friend of.

ours, Militia Chen, was telling me that. there's a Chinese, one of the Chinese. robotics companies. It's called Skynet. >> Oh god. >> And they have they released a robot. called the T900. And I'm like, who says. ch, you know, the CCP don't have a sense. of humor? >> That's that's wild. actually true. >> Yeah. >> Well, you've seen the robots that they. have now that will work in your home and. like fold your sheets and make your bed. and stuff and do it remarkably. humanlike. >> There's a video that was released.

yesterday. Again, I don't know if it's. real, but [laughter]. it looks real. It looks like an actual. robot that's making your bed. And. they've gotten the dexterity to the. point where you could imagine things. like this happening. I think this is one. of the reason why Elon is shifting his. focus away from some Tesla models so. that they can reset up one of their. factories to make these Optimus robots. that you're going to have them as home. companions. >> and they're going to be able to do. kitchen work for you and maybe even. cook.

>> My acupuncturist, she's Chinese. She. went back to China and she was saying. she stayed at the hotel and like most of. the services there is provided by. robots. So, like she she went to her. room, ordered some food, 3 minutes, knock, and [ __ ] robot delivering the. food. >> An actual humanoid looking robot. >> Uh, no, I don't think so. >> Cuz there's a restaurant out here that. you go to and when you order drinks, it. comes by on a little robot trolley. >> Yeah. Yeah, we have that. >> You have to say accept. You take your. tea. Yeah, it's kind of cool. It's fun. Here it is. >> It's not called Skynet, I don't believe,

but. >> Oh, sorry. Company. They did name it. after the I think, but I can't tell what. this is. T800 T800. The T900 is in. development. >> Look what it looks like. >> In a weird movie here, so could be for a. movie and we're misunderstanding. >> That looks fake. Yeah, that looks fake. right there. >> The robot itself looks fake. >> That's why like hearing come the. movement doesn't look. >> this doesn't seem. >> Well, it just it's in that. First of. all, I don't like how it's lit. >> I don't like how this room is lit. I. feel like.

>> for a film. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's a [ __ ] ass function. >> I think that's [laughter] a mistake. Joe's like, "This is my era of. expertise." No way. >> A lot of videos of it that say it's. real. But. >> yeah, >> I like how the the bag went flying like. it's on a rail, you know? It's not even. stationary cuz you don't you don't want. to really see how hard it can get this. Forbes article, but it says 40 grand. >> Wow. >> But I don't. >> right now. >> No, that's I don't know. This might be. [ __ ]. >> Yeah. Look at it. It's got the Iron Man. thing in the center of it chest. That's.

pretty dope. Hm. >> I would just say engine AI would makes. it just right away sound like it's a AI. content company, not robot company. >> Well, that video looked very AI like it. didn't that there's something about it. You know, your brain recognizes. miniature cars. You ever see like a. miniature car? Like, you know, you know. how they have those like really well. done miniature cars that people like to. collect and it's like a tiny Porsche,

>> but your brain knows. >> like your brain looks at it and goes, "There's something wrong here. This is. not real.". >> Yeah. >> That's how I felt looking at that robot. Like my brain was like, >> "That's not a real thing." Throwing. kicks. >> Yeah. But it's going to come to a point. where it's like, is that real? >> Oh, yeah. I mean, it's probably chat. GPD5 can already probably do it better. than that. You know, we don't know what. the newest iterations of these things. are, and they're improving radically all.

the time. >> There's no I just [clears throat] don't. believe it. The beginning of this video. says there's no CGI, which I I don't. know. I don't know why we have to. believe that. But, >> bro, this looks fake to me. >> Fake [ __ ] I know. >> This looks fake to me. That does not. look real. >> There's articles all over saying it's. real, but doesn't look real at all. >> Yeah, but I mean, why wouldn't you have. it more well lit? Like if I was going to. do something like this, I would have. spotlights on it and people next to it. so I could examine their shadows and it. sh This is weird. >> Yeah, this is like a. >> looks fake. >> Why would you have like. >> Why is the light coming through the. corner of the window like that?

>> Also, why would you make a robot that. does like martial art? >> Just shoot people, bro. >> Right. >> Yeah. Why would you throw that [ __ ]. kick, too? That's a 360 roundhouse kick. that almost never lands. [laughter]. >> That's really hard to pull off. Yeah, but you're saying that as a human. Maybe. as an AI, you land it every time. Slow, >> but surely if you're a robot, you just. grab their neck with your metal claw and. crush it. I mean, >> just run after them and headbutt them. and knock them unconscious. Your head's. made out of metal, right? >> The whole thing is crazy. Like, why. would you be throwing wheel kicks?

>> Like the, you know, even if you like. went over UFC fights and say like, "What's the most effective techniques. that work most of the time?" Why would. you program in 360 roundhouse kicks? That [ __ ] never comes up. M. >> yeah I mean it does look cool though. >> Yeah but I I can think of one fight uh. Yair Rodriguez pulled it off on BJ Penn. >> but there was BJ Penn towards the latter. end of his career. Yayier Rodriguez in. his peak and Yaire is exceptionally. talented kind of a freak with his kicks.

>> But it's almost like he was showing off. He already had BJ really hurt and he. just threw a 360 roundhouse kick and he. hit him in the face. It was crazy. >> But that this thing is doing that just. to show you it does martial arts. Why. would you need martial arts? Like you. you should have like a thousand bullets. on you. Just just like gun everybody. down with your fingertips. >> Robocco. >> Yeah. Why wouldn't you turn your like, you know, like like Iron Man does? Shoot. fire out of your palms. >> The future's bright, Joe. [laughter]. >> Well, we're also kind of being. bullshitted, I think. I mean, like, is.

there a way to an analyze that video? >> God, this is I'm going this rabbit hole. is strange. This is a website that. they've made that says you can buy it. When you click on buy now, it takes you. somewhere else. And I think that that's. the first signal. >> And it steals your IP address. >> Yeah, that's where I'm like, I'm not. clicking. >> Gets all your credit card information. >> But it's a fully made website. They have. a team. They got a CEO. They've got. other things. It just it doesn't seem. This all looks fake to me. Like it's for. a movie. Like this is like. >> Maybe it is. Maybe this is like a setup. for a movie and we're being [ __ ] with,

>> right? >> Well, we're giving them a lot of free. [laughter] even Googling it. There's. lots of articles about it. People are. talking about it like it's real and. discussing it like it's real. No one. that I've even seen is like, "This is. obviously fake. This is obviously AI.". >> I like how it's got the Sylon eyes. >> Yeah. >> By your command. >> They've got uh other products here for. sale, which those fit in line with other. robots who. >> click on that. [laughter] I don't know. what the [ __ ] this is, >> bro. That's the guy from Monsters, Inc. >> Yeah, >> the one big eyeball. >> It's a really well-made website. It.

looks nice. >> Interesting. >> They did some good fun work, but it just. seems like a fun project someone made. >> Yeah. >> Stay tuned for this one. You can't buy. this yet. Yeah. Give me a few years. What about the dog? >> What about the guy who's just got legs? That one's weird. >> What's that? [laughter]. >> It's like I don't want him touching me. >> Just run around my house and do some. stuff. >> Yeah. Expandable bipedal robot that. supports user custo blah blah blah. Uh. watch this with my purchase. Now you can. already see the website at the bottom.

That doesn't look it's 3.cn. So it's a. China website. >> Mhm. >> Not this blankly. Probably getting. >> it's floating. >> Okay, there we go. >> It's in Chinese. See it taken somewhere. else now. It's like what is that? >> It's definitely not a buy now. [laughter]. >> Maybe that red thing is. >> No, this is like this is I think. >> register your interest. Maybe. >> like a backend website. Interesting. >> They just didn't click the right link. here cuz it opened up a different. >> I don't think this is but this is. >> whatever this is is very they did it. well. >> Interesting.

>> That is. >> even if it's a a college kid making a. project. >> Good job. Well, I take full responsibility for. that one. >> I know. That's fine. I [laughter] mean, >> I take responsibility. can make a Forbes article. That's kind. of another. >> what? >> Yeah. Not anybody, but like you can make. we can make Forbes articles that say all. sorts of stuff. >> It's not coming from Forb's. >> editorial team, per se. >> Well, but but but you could publish on. Forbes. Uh let me I don't I don't want.

to speak out of turn specifically, but. like I've seen there's so many like uh. reviews for video games that pop up like. every single day that's like it's you. can be a contributor I believe is what. it would be. Not like. >> Oh, and maybe they have a bad editorial. team and you could sneak this through. >> Sure. >> And just pretend that there really is. That would be a great pro prank to pull. >> Yeah, >> it's a great hoax. >> Did you follow the molt book thing? >> No. >> I mean this Did you follow molt book? >> Yeah, I just actually saw that. that I. think Meta just bought it today. >> Meta just bought it today. This is. >> I thought it was fake.

>> Did you Was that fake as well? >> No, it's I I don't know why they would. have bought. >> How weird is it we have to worry about. everything. >> France is just here spreading fake news. [laughter] the whole. >> I didn't I was just very cynical about. it cuz it it the idea of it sounds right. but like that actual bots are making a. social network to do stuff and talk. about us and whatever kind of sounds too. far into the sci-fi. >> So this is the social network for AI. agents. I have heard about this. >> Well, they they complain about humans. Is that right? >> Yeah. >> These [ __ ] are.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. And apparently they created their. own language and they talked amongst. themselves so that we wouldn't be able. to access and see what they were talking. about. >> Yeah. That's really fun. Did you see. when they got all the AI agents to talk. to each other and started using. Sanskrit? >> No. >> Yeah. They got these different large. language models to communicate with each. other and they eventually broke out into. Sanskrit. >> Wow. It's very strange. [gasps and sighs]. >> Maybe these guys in um Iran are right. Like maybe this is the apocalypse. Maybe.

this is how it comes about. Maybe we're. we're looking at each other and we're. going to bring about these [ __ ]. and that's what's really going to be the. end of civilization. >> Yeah. And places like Iran is the only. place you're going to be able to hide as. a as a human cuz it's the one place that. hasn't adapt adopted all this [ __ ]. right? >> Yeah. Maybe Afghanistan's the spot to. go. Just live like a goat herder. >> Yeah. We're going to be like Bin Laden. just living in a cave. >> I mean, you're being very negative, boys. There's another option. [laughter]. >> There's another option. There's another.

option. >> What's the other option? >> We all become Amish. >> Oh, okay. But then we're run by AI. Yeah. >> We're We're Amish and we live in our. little communities, but we have no say. on how the world works. So, this is the. real fear is that we're no longer the. apex intelligence of the planet. And. that seems to already be the case. >> Yeah. This is for the Forbes thing I was. talking about. The article we had, I. don't think was specifically this, but. I've seen many articles like this where. people can submit. >> oneoff original articles to the opinion. section, particularly for topics related.

to business tech or pol tech. There you. go. Or policy by emailing pitches to. ideas at Forbes.com. So yeah, like so if. you're a person on the other end just. looking for clicks, >> like that would be a good one. You see. it like, oh, this is really well-ritten. article. Let's go to the website. website looks legit. Oh, they're. throwing wheel kicks. I'm [snorts] in. [laughter]. >> Yeah. I mean, >> [ __ ]. >> But again, the the point being made.

again is like it's such a it's such a. terrifying world where you don't know if. what you're seeing is true. You don't. know if what you're reading is accurate, >> right? to the point where you can't help. if that's the case that the world you. live in continually feeding things that. may or may not be true or altered or. doed. Wouldn't that just put you in a. state of paranoia after a while? >> 100%. Now imagine if you are in the. Middle East and uh you bust out your. cell phone because a fiery cloud emerges.

and Jesus is on a white horse and you. film it and you post it online. Who's. going to believe it? Right? This is the. real problem with Jesus returning. If he. returned now, no one would buy it. Like. we're we're getting into this like like. imagine Jesus is a real person or a real. God who's the son of God who's going to. come back. He really is. It's real. It's. all real. >> It's happening at the same time where. you have no idea what's real. And it all converges instantaneously.

with the rise of sensient artificial. general super intelligence that has. complete autonomy. that's running all. the resources, everything, anything. that's attached to a computer, which is. basically everything. All of our power, all of our, you know, everything fill in. the blank. Everything's run by. computers. And now AI has control of. everything and no longer wants to listen. to human beings. And Jesus returns. Yeah. I mean, that might be what.

everybody's talking about when they're. talking about Armageddon, when they're. talking about the end of civilization. It might be this new thing that we're. creating. >> Well, if that happens, I'll be rooting. for Jesus to return. [laughter] I'll be. Please, Jesus. I'm not sure I believe in. you, but please come back. >> Yeah, I'm not sure [snorts] either. But. this is I mean, maybe he did. Maybe a. historical Jesus existed at one point in. time. And maybe what they're talking. about is like their version of the. cycles of humanity that other religions. have talked about. is that especially.

when you deal with technology and power. and civilization that things get to a. point where they always go sideways and. then there's dark times and then they. then society like the yugas like you. know. >> what are the yugas. >> the yugas are the cycles of civilization. that let's uh I don't want to [ __ ] this. up so let's um define the y we're in the. middle of kaliuga which is the the age. of confusion and. >> feel like it. >> yeah I mean it's odd how accurate these.

cycles are when you look at historical. events and like what things were like. you know x amount of thousands of years. ago. >> So Hindu cosmology. >> yes uh vast cosmic ages in Hindu. cosmology describe reoccurring cycles in. the moral and spiritual state of the. world. So the four yu yugas are satya. yuga, the first and most righteous age. often called the golden age marked by. truth, virtue and maximum dharma which.

is moral order. Uh ta yuga the second. age uh dharma declines somewhat. Virtue. still predominates but imbalance begins. Uh how do you say that word? Dwaf parara. yoga the third age with with further. decline in righteousness and an increase. in conflict suffering and confusion and. then kaliuga the fourth and darkest age. characterized by moral decay ignorance. and materialism with dharma at its. weakness. Okay, that's us.

>> Yeah. >> Hindu cosmology treaties yugas as. repeating cycles of creation, growth, decline, and destruction rather than. one-time historical periods. Yeah. Very interesting, right? Do. >> you know it's it's even more noticeable. for us coming to America, I think, because you know, we love America, but. one of the things that really stands out. is how materialistic people are and how. much money is like the number one thing. for everything now. >> Yeah. >> I find that really. it it stands out to me. >> Mhm. the fact that so and I find it.

weird in our game especially like in. media and podcasting and whatever like. because the way we think about what we. do is we're trying to produce content. that's actually of value to people. >> but we also meet a lot of people for. whom it's it's like a business it's like. it's like selling widgets it's the same. you know how do you get. >> how do you maximize your returns on your. investment you know. >> um and that to me is it's um it shows. you that something is slightly.

Yeah, it is. It's And you you also get a. lot of. >> you get people that are making content. just based only on the perceived. popularity of that content, not whether. or not they are really interested in. having these conversations and you feel. it when you're talking to these people. or when you're listening to these people. talk to each other rather. >> Yeah. Um the clickbait stuff, a lot of. celebrity stuff, >> you know. Um, uh, Bert Chryser went on. Shannon Sharp's podcast and he said they. basically have like a list of like.

controversial things they could talk. about and you know and subjects they. think are going to get the the most. amount of traction and that those are. the questions that he asked. You just. ask questions off of a list. >> But from a business point of view, if. you take morality out of it, that's a. smart thing to do. Joe, >> is it though? Is it though because like. what what's the most popular show is. this one and why is this one the most. popular? Because I don't do that at all. >> Mhm. But a agreed, but you're sort of an. outlier in that. There's people who make. very very very good living interviewing.

those types of people, having that type. of approach and creating that type of. content. I know, but I think in the end. you bite off your nose despite your face. cuz I think that you lose a certain. amount of authenticity. There's a. certain amount of like a legitimate. connection between you and whatever. you're talking about that it doesn't get. through to the people. Like if I talk to. someone, I'm only talking to them. because I want to like then I have a lot. of people on that are not even remotely. popular or famous, but I think they. wrote an interesting book or I think.

they're involved in interesting research. or I think they've got a weird opinion. on something and I want to talk to them. about it or they have had a strange life. or, you know, they were an undercover. cop or whatever it is. I I I'm just. interested, right? And I think that. >> if you abandon that and only focus on. this person is famous or this person's. in the news or this is this is going to. get a lot of views, >> you don't care as much about the. conversation you're having and the. people know. So like the person. listening and watching, they can feel. it. >> No, I agree with that. But I also think.

you could probably get a lot of clicks. by saying, I don't know, Erica Kirk. killed Charlie Kirk. >> Right. You could do that, too. But. you're also you're you're playing a. weird game where you got to continually. go deeper and deeper and deeper. And now. Erica Kirk's a man. You know, you know, [laughter] you know what I'm saying? >> That's probably next to. >> Has that already happened? I probably. That's probably already happened. Someone's probably already floated that. one out there. >> Yeah. And you saying over time that runs. you run out of Yeah. >> You run out of road. >> You're playing the wrong game. you're. you're playing you're playing a very.

similar game to the game that like TMZ. is playing or any of these other like. things where you can get a lot of. traction, you can get a lot of views, you know, but no one thinks you're being. authentic. No one like if you have a. take on world events and we're. incredibly sorry for the loss of this. person, like you don't really care and. they know you don't really care. So they. they know there's no sincerity. They. know you're not really connected to it. And so in this weird age that we're. living in where you're not sure what's. real at the very least, you want the.

person who's talking to be talking about. something in an honest way, >> right? >> And connecting with people in an honest. way because that's what we're missing. And that might be the only thing we have. left once this AI [ __ ] goes live. Like. >> it's it's probably not even going to be. podcast. It's probably going to be. public speaking. It's going to you're. going to have to like talk to people in. groups and we're going to all have to. like work ideas out together because I. don't think you're going to be able to. know when you're communicating online.

what's real and what's not real. We're. already in the fog where we haven't hit. the [ __ ] full hail storm of [ __ ]. that's coming our way. >> Yeah. And it but I I agree with you Joe. and I agree. if you want something that. is sustainable, if you want something. that is nourishing, if you want some if. you want to create content that people. engage with, that is honest. But I think there's a lot of people out. there who are just looking at it in a. very cynical way and they're optimizing. it for clicks, attention, and monetary. gain. >> Yeah. >> And if you want to create a a business.

that can make money and that is that. doesn't require a lot of lift, we all. know what you can do. >> That's the Eagle song, Dirty Laundry. >> Yeah. You know, it's they've always been. >> It's real. >> It's real. >> Jamie's still on this do all the jumping. and [ __ ]. >> Thank you. [laughter]. It's from I find it real. This is. >> Okay, that looks way more real. So, [laughter] the videos we were watching. were [ __ ]. >> So, this went viral a while ago. They've. they had to come out and make other. videos. Oh, this is a different one. Uh.

to say that. >> Oh my god, that's so Iroot. >> I know. They had a that lined up. military style. There's a few different. companies in China that have gone viral. for posting videos that people in. America think are fake. And. >> that's why I had to go to CES and find. somebody else because they put out more. content that doesn't necessarily look. fake, but it doesn't look better. >> Well, that doesn't look fake. >> Yeah, this does not look fake because. this is people on the floor at CES, >> right? But look how much more awkward it. movements are. >> But they put out a video where the thing. is kicking the CEO.

Yeah. [laughter]. It It almost looks real, but it's not. It It I It's tough. I like to see what. of it. >> Is it funky lighting again? >> Not Not that it's when they're in the. ring with them. >> Okay. >> Hold on a second. >> Okay. So, he's going to go ahead. Okay. That looks much more real. That looks. much more real. Much more awkward. >> Jesus. >> But that didn't that looks fake. I tell. you what, I wouldn't I would not do that.

if I. >> No, no, that looks real to me. >> Stand in front of a hunk of metal is. going to kick you. >> The problem [snorts] is it's slow. motion. Let me see it again. In In fact, did they show it in real speed? >> It's just this weird clip of it, which. is kind of strange, but. >> let me see it again. Taking the first kick. >> It looks real. >> The only thing I would say is it's not. jumping up and doing spin kicks, but. it's doing some of this other stuff that. >> Well, that would be what I would teach. it. First of all, I wouldn't teach it to. do the spin kicks. I'd teach it to do. like a stepping front kick like that.

>> That's the [ __ ] they were showing that. people had problems with like we just. did. But man, that. >> the robots are doing crazy stuff like. >> Well, they definitely can do crazy. stuff. There was that one demonstration. they did in China. I I think you've seen. that once. >> See, it's bouncing around like in a. fight position here like he's ready to. go, >> shaking his legs out. >> Wow. But let me see some wheel kicks. >> That's the I mean, >> see, that's the thing. Why is the one in. the corner looking depressed? >> That's the [laughter] older one. >> Decommission. He's right now plotting.

his strategy for blackmail to get. upgraded software. [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> I don't know. So that I mean. >> well that's this is so what we're. looking at was probably some AI at least. enhancements. >> They but the problem is is they're not. saying they're not admitting that it is. They're saying it's not. >> And I go like that's tough. >> Interesting. Well, I would want to see. this thing move in a similar way that. you're seeing in that video. I mean, that thing shows remarkable agility. where it's jumping up in the air and.

spinning around. >> And this thing's not doing that. >> No, it's moving very differently, isn't. it? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> There's a stiffness to its movement. >> Strange though. >> Looks like you at the gym. >> Yeah, it [laughter] does. >> Yeah. >> Really does. >> Um, there was that the Chinese. demonstration though. There was a a. demonstration where these people were on. a stage and they were doing martial arts. and then the robots came out and the. robots did martial arts. That looked. real, >> right? Right. >> That looked real, but it didn't.

>> Here's the other video we sort of saw. >> Oh, this is crazy. >> God, this is. >> this is crazy. [snorts]. That's where they reload. >> And these are real, right? >> I think. Yeah, this is a different video. they had to post because people didn't. think these were real. >> That looks real. >> [sighs]. >> They look like they're unsullied. >> So. >> from Game of Thrones. >> What are these ones? >> Who makes these? >> I don't know. >> I don't know. It doesn't.

>> That marching sound is not comforting, is it? >> No. [laughter]. >> It says world's first mass delivery of. humanoid robots. >> Yeah. You're going to have cargo ships. filled with these headed to America. >> Wonderful. >> I mean, those are going to be the new. police officers. >> Uh-huh. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's not good. This is I. mean this is Terminator. This is the. movie. I mean and. >> if you really were imagining like if you. were trying to warn people of an. apocalypse and you told it through. stories for generation after generation.

and then eventually people write down. their versions of this story and then it. goes to 2026 where this stuff is. actually happening. Maybe this is what. they were warning us about. >> Yeah. Do you remember in the 80s and the. '9s and the early 90s there was this run. of great movies talking about how the. robots are going to take over. >> sci-fi books as well. I mean Isaac. Azimov stuff was amazing. >> Philip K. Dick you know um do Android. Dream of Electric Sheep which then. became Bladeunner.

all of these. And then no one's making. those movies now are they? [laughter]. >> No. Too close to home. >> I guess I Robot was probably the last. one right? >> Yeah. which was uh I I wrote but which. was the one with Tom Cruz Minority. Report which was based on a Philip K. Dick. >> Mhm. >> But nobody's making them anymore cuz. everyone's like, "Dude, I I know this is. going to happen, >> right? >> I don't need to see this.". >> Well, they're also talking about using. AI to predict people's behavior. So, they're talking about future crime.

report, right? >> Yeah. So, they've literally talked about. one of the ways that AI could be. implemented. You look at someone's. history. You look at someone's behavior. patterns. Look at what they're doing. now. And you predict, oh, this person. has been radicalized. They're about to. do X. >> Yeah. And there is. >> they're about to tweet something. [laughter]. >> Yeah. That's. >> arrest them. >> Yeah. Graeme Lithan picks up his phone. Robot kicks down the door and arrests. him. >> Graham. >> He's doing right now, I think. >> Yeah. Yeah. But he's in America. That's. why he's doing.

>> I think that backfired. Yeah. I think. people were outraged by that cuz it's so. outrageous. Yeah. Then. >> you meet that guy at the airport and. arrest him. And it was right after he. did this podcast, by the way. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. I I remember that's a moment. even when I was talking to comedians who. were actually woke. They were like, "Yeah, that this is you can't do this.". >> The thing is he didn't even do it in. England. So you're arresting who someone. who's not a citizen of the United. Kingdom for a crime. >> I mean, if we accept that framing that.

they didn't even commit in the country, >> right? the. >> Yeah, it's pretty cookooky that they. went with it. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And I know the reason is because every. police officer in airports in the UK. have guns, >> but it's a really bad look. Like there's. five armed police officers. >> arresting a comedy writer. >> Yeah. I bet you they felt bad doing it. as well because it's not them that's. making up these dumb. >> Oh, I'm sure. >> Nobody signs up to like arrest comedy.

writers, >> right, >> in airports. I don't I don't think. that's why the police do it. But the. rules have just got so. >> well, you see it in like the humiliation. that a lot of these police officers face. when they have to arrest someone for a. Facebook post, >> right? >> Like you could see like they are not. happy and when people are protesting and. yelling, are you [ __ ] serious? And. they're like, I'm just doing my job. >> Yeah. >> You know? >> Yeah. And that's a large part of the. problem. We get, you know, former police. officers on the show and we got a lot. of, you know, cops and former cops who.

watch the show and they talk to us about. the state that the British police force. is in and it's demoralization. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The rank and file don't want any. of this [ __ ]. >> Well, same in America. A lot of. especially major blue cities where just. a few years ago they were running with. that defund the police [ __ ] and then. things obviously went sideways and most. of them sort of course corrected for the. most part except in narrative. >> You know that it's not like public. massive support for the police officers. because they keep society together.

>> Like in Austin the the cops responded in. a minute. One minute. That guy started. gunning people down at that bar. The. cops were there and killed them in a. minute. >> It's incredible. >> Incredible. And they should be applauded. for that. I mean that's amazing. I mean. that but you know even that like in this. city there hasn't been this big public. support of those officers, this big. celebration of those officers, this big. acknowledgement of the importance of. them and how they were willing to put. their life on the line and react so.

quickly and so effectively. >> They're heroes. That's what they are. They're heroes. They're real heroes. And. they're heroes that. have been demoralized by the last 6. years of of horseshit ever since the. George Floyd protests, you know, >> and well, it was happening before. I. mean, if you go back to Michael Brown, right? Michael Brown, what we were told. in the media happened is not what. happened. >> Which one was Michael Brown? >> Michael Brown was hands up, don't shoot, >> right? >> That's he didn't have his hands up. >> And he didn't say don't shoot. >> Right. >> He assaulted the police officer. Right.

But the media concocted the story and I. don't think this is what we came back to. like what's happening in new media where. people are putting out things that are. really damaging to the fabric of our. conversations right and what how we talk. about things like you say I mean there. are bad bad apple police officers of. course there are. >> but the majority of them they are people. who are signing up to risk their life on. a daily basis to protect other people in. their community. And these people all. have [ __ ] PTSD because all they see.

is the worst of humanity day in day out. Yep. >> Every single [ __ ] day they get in the. car and they go and eat [ __ ] for the. rest of the day. >> Yeah. >> And then they go home and they worry. about not coming home, right? And then. someone tries to run them over with a. car like Yeah. They're going to [ __ ]. shoot. >> Yeah. >> You know, >> and it's it's and the thing is that's. how society falls apart when you no. longer honor and celebrate the people. who are putting themselves on the line. Well, not just that in the case of the. lady running over or she wasn't running. him over. I I think she was trying to. turn her her car away from him, but that.

guy had been dragged by a car just a few. weeks earlier. >> That's what I'm saying. >> Yeah. >> So, but in. >> and then on top of that, you have people. that are being paid to protest, right? So, it's organized. And I'm not saying. that lady was, but many people are. And. then you've got all these people that. that becomes the focus of their life. It. becomes a cause that's worthy. You live. this mundane, boring life of desperation. and then all of a sudden something comes. along that gives you hope and meaning. and like this is my identity. My. identity is I'm fighting fascism and I'm.

out there in the street, >> right? >> You know, I was on I was on the plane uh. to the US. I think it was last year and. you know the movie Bridesmaids came up. >> Yes. >> So really funny movie. It's 2013. I was. like ah I want something like let's. watch this comedy. The romantic interest. in Bar's made the main guy, you know who. what his job is? He's a cop. >> Mhm. >> Can you imagine a movie being made now. like a like romantic comedy where the. main guy is a cop and he's a good guy,

>> right? >> You just wouldn't see it, >> right? >> You just wouldn't see it because cops. are oppressive. >> agent now. [laughter]. >> Yeah, man. Do you know Yuri Bezmanov. talked about this? >> Yes. >> He talked about this. She talked about. the fact that when you see in the. culture, you know, the military, the. cops, the firefighters, all of these. people, they're bad and the criminal is. the one that's to be understood and to. be, you know, all that's how you flip. society. >> Yeah. >> And that's what we've got. >> Yeah. That's what we've got. >> The Bonghov speech from 1984, which is,

by the way, such an appropriate date for. him to make that interview. >> Yeah. >> But it's it's so eerie how all of that. has actually come to pass because back. then nobody took him seriously at all. Right. >> Right. And it didn't it wasn't until. like the 2020s that people started. reviewing that and then once it got on. YouTube, >> then people were like, "Oh, >> this [ __ ] guy nailed it.". >> I think it's YouTube. And also most. people want most people in my experience. want to pretend that everything is fine.

most of the time. >> Yeah. So if you come out in 2018 as we. did and say this woke [ __ ] is getting. out of hand and it's going in a bad. direction and it's going to cause a lot. of problems, people make you the. problem. >> Yeah. >> They say you're wrong to talk about. this. If you talk about grooming gangs, you're bad and evil and whatever. If you. talk about free speech and people being. arrested for tweets and all of this, people make you the bad guy. And it's. only later, like I remember, I can't. even remember who said it, but like I I. had this Oh, no, I remember who said it.

One time I was on TV uh debating with. this woman [snorts] uh about this stuff. and I was saying cancel culture is bad. and she was saying it's all [ __ ]. blah blah blah. I met her a few years. later and she was like, "Yeah, I. realized cancel counsel was bad." And I. went, "How did you realize?" And she. went, "When my friends started getting. cancelled, >> right? Most people want to pretend most. of the time and everything is fine.". >> Yeah. >> But when they start to see the reality. of things and it starts to affect them, >> right, >> that's when they go, "Ah, maybe this. best man of guy had a point.". >> Yeah. I had an argument with a seemingly.

intelligent person who's a friend of. mine when the NSA when this whole uh. mass buying thing was the Edward Snowden. stuff was released. >> and he was like like you can look at my. [ __ ] I'm not doing anything wrong. Like. what do you care? I'm like that's such a. crazy take. >> Yeah. >> Like who who are these perfect people. that are watching over everything? You. don't think any of them have either some. financial or power-based incentive to do. certain things or silence certain voices.

and find out what you're doing or maybe. even manipulate you in in some sort of a. way being able to have access to all of. your emails, all of your phone calls. Those are just people and all of them. unelected bureaucrats. You you think. that's okay for those people to have. access to everything you've ever said? That's crazy. And look, maybe the. current government that we have in this. place is, you know, would never dream of. doing such a thing. And maybe they're. entirely honorable and everybody's a. great person and and you know, they're.

this unique human being where they don't. have any ulterior motives. >> But what's to say the next government. comes in won't do that and start looking. in and going, "Hey, you know what? You're causing me problems, Joe Rogan. You're saying a lot of things that I. don't actually like. Let's look through. your emails. Oh, look, I'll find one. from 14 years ago, which is, you know, whatever it may be. Let's get rid of you. for that. >> This was the argument when Obama was. pushing the NDAA. Um, which the this was. the indefinite detention.

>> So, this this concept that you didn't. have to charge anybody, you didn't have. to you just have to have it. You don't. have to try them within a timely period. Indefinite detention. Well, we'll never. use that. >> Okay. But. >> why are you pushing it then? >> Right. Well, also, who comes after you, man? Like, how how many generations are. we away from Hitler, right? You know, like who [ __ ] who's to say that this. new power won't be used by very. unscrupulous people that are now I mean, the founding fathers of this country.

really had a good understanding of how. corruption and tyranny sets in. And. that's why they put all these checks and. balances in place. And the more they. eroded that, whether it's the Patriot. Act, the Patriot Act 2, or the NDAA, when you start doing stuff like that, man, you you're you're just undermining. the very fabric that this country was. created with. It's like we we were. created under this idea that we know. human nature. We know that you cannot. have power. We know that the government. has to be working for the people. It.

can't be we are under the power of these. individuals because those individuals. will then act like tyrants which is what. people always do when they have power. >> It's one of the things that makes. America really a great place because you. we look at the UK now and you know if. Francis is right and I I've said this I. think the next election is probably. going to be Nigel Farage versus these. far-left. If those far leftists get in. power I mean they're going to start. regulating podcasts. I guarantee you. >> 100%. >> That's what they're going to do. They're.

going to say, "We have offcom for TV.". Well, what we need to have it for other. broadcasting. Surely you'd agree with. that, right? >> And then before you know it, like. everything we do, >> you know, you guys are living in Austin, >> right? [laughter]. >> Right. Cuz at that point, we would. actually leave. >> Yeah. You would have to. You'd have to. >> because what they would say is, and they. would use the word that they always use, which is, you know, they're spreading. misinformation and hate. >> Yeah. When the New York Times spreads. information, misinformation, that's. wonderful, >> right? But it's it's so yeah, I I think.

allowing people maximum freedom within. the system you're talking about is is a. really truly precious thing. It's why. America in this respect is an example to. the rest of the world. >> I I think if anything that should be. done, they should be able to figure out. what which of these accounts are bots. and eliminate those. Yeah. I I do not. think that you should be allowed to not. just run a bot farm. >> or I don't think you should be allowed. to hire people to tweet. I think that's.

crazy. And I most certainly don't think. you should be able to use AI. >> I mean that that seems crazy. It seems. crazy to allow that and pretend that's a. person. >> But if think about it like this, Joe, like how basically did social media. start? Facebook, Meta, all the rest of. it. It started by a nerd in his bedroom. in his college dorm who set up a website. to rate hot girls on campus. And my point is like we creating all of. this technology. We don't know what's.

going to be the second, third, fifth, fifth, sixth order consequences. And. we're having to figure out as we go. along and now we're creating artificial. intelligence intelligences that are way. smarter than us. And you're going at. what point is this going to run away, right? >> Or has it already run away? and we just. don't want to admit it because most of. us don't know enough and the ones in. charge are delusional. >> Yeah, but you're right, Joe. I think we. need a way to know a what is human. content and what isn't human content. >> And also, I sometimes look at stuff on.

social media and I go, there's no. [ __ ] way this take got 50,000 likes. on X. No [ __ ] way. >> Right. Right. >> You know what I mean? like and that is. but that is shaping people's perception. of reality. and that is informing political debate. and that is then informing how people. vote and where did those 40,000 likes. come from. >> right. >> did they come from within America did. they come from within Britain. >> because what if they didn't right so who. is then shaping the political direction.

of our countries. >> we need to know that. >> yeah we do need to know that. >> we need to know that. >> because it is effective even if someone. has a completely preposterous and. radical position a couple steps down. from that that becomes more palatable, right? Like because now it's closer to. the like the farther left the left goes, >> the the weirder the center gets because. the center starts accepting things that. were far left positions. Same on the. right. Same exactly on the right. And.

you can you can shift narratives by. really really radical ideologies, really. radical thoughts and radical. declarations and you could change like. what's acceptable. >> So an example of that is during the. Euros, the 2021 final, it was England. versus Italy, right? And it was a tight. game and it went to penalty shootout and. three black England footballers missed. the penalty. >> and we ended up losing the European Cup.

to the Italians. And afterwards these. three black footballers got inundated. with racism and horrible things. That. sparked a conversation in our country. about we have a real problem with. racism. This is disgraceful that these. black footballers are exposed to this. level of racism. Unaccept. Of course it. is. All those things are true. basically about them being exposed to. race and it's not acceptable and then it. went into a discussion about England. being a racist country, white. supremacist and this became widespread. and this and the example of what these.

footballers were exposed to was used as. a way to justify this opinion and you. could see a lot of people accept that. opinion. >> until a couple of days later when they. investigated where the majority of the. tweets came from and messages and I. think something like 85% if not 90 came. from outside the UK if not even more. than that. M. >> so you're going oh so this entire. conversation that we have had about. white supremacy about you know black. people not being accepted in in our.

country about the fact they're secondass. citizens and look this example of them. being exposed to horrendous racism when. the fact is the majority of it came from. outside the UK. >> and then you have to ask the question. who benefits. >> right. >> who benefits from us hating each other. obsessing about our differences worrying. about how we're the racist places in the. world when this narrative is likely. being driven by actually racist. countries. [laughter]. >> Right. Right. >> Right. Right. >> Because that's what's happening.

>> Yes. >> And we are allowing it to happen. And I. think we just haven't woken up to the. fact that we are living in the age of. information warfare and we because of. our belief in freedom have just got lost. in this fact that we are under attack. >> It's a very good point. I have to pee. Um we'll come back with that. >> Let's do that. I'll go pee as well. >> Speaking of religion, so um show us this. uh Sam Tripoli Facebook take. He was on. Danny Jones and this is what he said. about Facebook.

>> Damn it. >> Volume. here. >> Yeah. >> Is a giant lie. It's a propaganda piece. That was a Pentagon program called. Lifelog. Lifelog is a Pentagon program. >> that wants to collect all your data for. your whole life. What day did the. government stop the Lifelog project? >> Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. DARPA shut. down the Lifelog project [music]. February 4th, 2004.

>> What day was Facebook registered as a. business? >> Oh my god. No way, bro. >> The exact SAME DAY. THEY DON'T EVEN HIDE. IT, DUDE. >> It was created by DARPA. Yeah. They. handed to Mark Zuckerberg and then the. the vos. >> What about the other? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> That's all. And that's why they became. the first Bitcoin millionaires because. they played ball. >> Oh my god. >> It's all theater, dude. >> So, what is the purpose of life [music]. log? >> To collect all your data for your whole.

entire life. No. >> Okay. Take this with many grains of. salt. [laughter]. Sam is one of my best friends. I've. known him for decades. He's a wonderful. person, but he's a cook, >> but he's right a lot. >> Yeah. >> I don't know if he's right about this, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Jamie thinks he's right. >> It is. It was a It It's not that he's. incorrect. I would say that. >> he's making some connections. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, he's definitely right about. the dates and that is a little weird.

>> Yes. >> That it's ended on the same day where. Facebook is beginning. Little weird. >> Yeah. You know. >> what do you think the appeal is of like. >> when I went down this rabbit hole here. it said it was made by the information. processing techniques office [laughter]. >> of the CIA I think or something but. here's some other fun projects that is. are associated with this. >> biologically inspired cognitive. architectures. Wait what? >> Yep. >> There's just a couple.

>> biologically inspired cognitive. architectures. That sounds like. artificial intelligence. >> Yeah. Uh, >> bootstrapping learning. What was the. other one, James? >> This Forester thing. >> Forester, a per a program to develop. helicopterborn radar system that can. detect soldiers and vehicles moving. underneath foliage cover. >> Whoa. Deep green. >> US Army battlefield decision-making. support system. Yeah, this is all AI. >> Heterogenous urban RSTA. >> So, they were planning on this in the.

>> This was 2004 is when that thing ended, the lifelog thing. So, uh, I mean, it. even goes back to says they were working. on ARPANET back in the 60s. >> Whoa. >> Which is the beginning of the internet. >> By the way, Joe, have you had anyone on. to talk about this weapon that the US um. forces used in Venezuela? >> No. No, I haven't. Not yet. >> But there was something like they use. something, right? >> Yes. >> Something supposedly. >> that makes your brain water temperature. rise and so you get nose bleeds and. [ __ ] Is that Is that what it is? Well, my cousin told me when I was talking uh.

after the attack after. >> your cousin in Venezuela. >> My cousin in Venezuela. Yeah. Yeah. He. was saying that it seemed like in a onem. radius everybody's windows got blown. out. >> Well, that's just blast. That's not like. it. But what I what I heard was that. they had some kind of weapon that. >> some sonic weapon. >> Some I don't know if it was sonic maybe, but something that incapacitates people. and makes them very uncomfortable. basically, but without killing them. >> Was it 60 minutes? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So 60 Minutes said that these guys.

acquired some weapon from uh Russian. black market. >> and it's a very small portable weapon. that you can carry around with you. >> and does something very similar. What. did what did what is their claim on. this? >> Uh well two there's two different things. going on with the 60 Minutes thing. They. had a story a couple months ago where. they were tracking a guy and then they. just had an update I think over the. weekend that added to it. >> But what is the claim? Oh, I think they. found the guy that said he was doing it, I believe.

>> Right. He had a device in his car or. something like that. >> and you could just point it at people, but it was you could carry it around. >> Yeah, that that is where it gets. strange. That's I mean uh the 60 Minutes. thing from yesterday going around. I. didn't watch it so I don't know what. they're talking. >> Oh, the Havana syndrome. Yes. >> Yeah. But it has to do with that and. that's what I was trying to Trump had. this discombobulator weapon mentioned. >> Right. That's what I'm talking about. >> Discombobulator. But that's Trump. description of what the Havana. [laughter] syndrome weapon. [clears throat] is. >> Yes. >> The discombobulator. But it seems like. whatever its effectiveness is, the. Havana syndrome is very small in. comparison to what these things are.

doing. These things are like completely. incapacitating people. >> You know, I don't think people talk. about this enough. You know, when they. came in to take Maduro, >> you know what they also did? I mean, you. probably know this. They fired a rocket. into Chavis's morale. >> They did? >> Yeah. Just to be like, "Go [ __ ] your. mom.". >> Wow. >> I'm going to bump your grave. >> Wow. >> Isn't that the most Trump thing ever? You know how much those things cost? >> Yeah. >> Oh yeah. Millions of dollars. >> Millions. So millions just to say [ __ ]. you. >> Yeah.

>> Just fired a rocket into his grave. [laughter]. >> This is the American way, baby. >> We're going to fire some expensive [ __ ]. >> That's crazy. >> Your grave. >> But under any other president, you would. have gone, "That's bullshit." But under. Trump, you're like, "Yeah, of course.". >> You think it was his idea? >> Yes. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Yeah. >> I've got a thought. That sounds exactly like a Trump idea. >> Um, so this weapon that uh what is the.

details? >> I don't know. We can just watch this. >> Yeah. Let's see what he says here. Well, we could just read. Okay. Go ahead. Okay. Let's play it. Let's play it. >> Here it goes. >> Microwave weapon, right, >> that may explain mysterious brain. injuries suffered by US officials. We've. been investigating these injuries for 9. years. And now our sources tell us this. microwave weapon is [clears throat]. portable, concealable, and uses. relatively little power. Hundreds of.

possible attacks have been reported, including, we've learned, at CIA. headquarters in Virginia and at least. two incidents on the grounds of the. White House. For years, the government. doubted the stories of the injured. But. now, the victims, including former CIA. officer Mark Polymoropoulos, hope that word of a newly discovered. weapon will finally vindicate them.

There's a part of this, Scott, that has. to do with moral injury, and that's the. idea of of betrayal. You know, I worked. for 26 years for the CIA. I think I was. involved in every covert action program. in the Middle East. I did some very. interesting things for the US. government, always with the idea that. they would have my back if I got jammed. up. I just needed to get medical care. when I came back and they wouldn't even. do that. So, this moral injury, this. sense of betrayal is so acute with me. Um, that's something that I can never. forgive them for. >> Mark Polymoris rose to an executive.

level at the CIA, about the equivalent. of a three-star general. He was awarded. a top decoration for service. 60 Minutes. has learned to take. >> I just repeated it. >> Not much about the weapon there. unfortunately. >> Yeah. Huh. Huh. >> But it's it's interesting that the way. that they did that they did that. operation because when I was talking to. my cousins and my friends about what. happened, no one in Venezuela had a clue. and they were my friend said that he was.

woken up around 2:00 in the morning by a. plane going overhead and there's a. no-fly zone around over Caracus at that. time especially and he was like, "What. is this?" and he said, "You heard this. almighty. boom.". And everybody was just nobody knew what. was happening. They don't have ex in. Venezuela for obvious reasons. So, everybody was in the dark. And it was. only via Instagram and Facebook that. they started to understand what had just.

gone on. But it was complete disbelief. that the Americans had done that. If. they uh they don't have uh X, do they. have threads? >> Uh which is like. >> I imagine [laughter] Yeah. X0. Yeah, I. imagine they must do. But he said the. way that everybody was communicating was. via Instagram. >> Interesting. >> What are people saying now in Venezuela? >> So, and now I talked to my friends. He. said that things are getting better. He. said things are getting better. He said. that crime was down 75%. I mean, I don't.

know how true this is. He said things. are slowly starting to get liberalized. He als the I was talking to a Colombian. friend of mine who was saying that. people Venezuelans in Colombia are now. starting to go back because whilst the. regime is still obviously not perfect, what you essentially have is a perfect. regime and they know that the moment. they step out of line, they know the. moment they to use Trump's parliament. [ __ ] about something will happen. They're kept in they're kept they're. kept in on a straight line. Yeah. They.

they have to behave. they can't do what. Maduro did. And what's interesting about. when Maduro was captured is nobody. really mentioned that much about his. wife. But a lot of people say that his. wife was the brains behind the operation. because Maduro, there's clips of him. that went viral on Tik Tok and Instagram. and on Twitter as well where he was. doing speeches and he had to do basic. mental arithmetic and he couldn't do it. This guy was a bus driver. He was picked.

by Chavez when Chavez was on his. deathbed in 2013 dying from stomach. cancer and he appointed Maduro. Everybody was shocked because they were. saying, "Well, Maduro wasn't the most. capable. He wasn't the most. intelligent." But what Maduro was is he. was the most loyal out of all Chavis's. underlings. So he was picked not for his. brilliance, not for his sharpness, but. because he was a company man. And. actually the the person who the. Venezuelans hated the most was his wife. because she was the brains behind the.

operation. She was the one in charge of. the kidnappings, the tortures, the. murders. So when she was kidnapped, people were happier that she was on the. helicopter than Maduro himself. >> Really? >> Yeah. >> Lady McBth. >> She was way more cruel than Maduro. >> Wow. >> Way more cruel. It's interesting you say. things are getting better now because. like it's short term, right? We don't. know, >> right? >> Yeah. >> You know, so some so this has happened a.

lot of times in Latin America, right? Like people get overthrown, things are. getting better, and then some [ __ ]. happens. >> Yeah. Not the most stable place. [laughter]. >> Not the most stable people, Joe. I'm. going to be honest with you. They're my. people. It's either, you know, uh it's. either Fatimo or Viva Revol. >> Yeah. >> And you're like, "Guys, can we have a. little middle?" and they're like no va. revol you know they're they you know. they're excitable people. >> and you also wonder how much the fact. that Venezuela in particular it's so. resourceri a lot of well like a lot of.

Francis always says to me like you know. it could be a really great country. really wealth and I go I don't know that. having those resources makes a country. better cuz what you get is a corrupt. elite who are fighting for control of. these resources that are so easy to get. like in 1990s Russia when the Soviet. Union collapsed the people who took over. all the resource companies, the oil. companies, the gas companies, where like. Russia is basically all it is is a is a. in terms of its economy is digging [ __ ]. out of the ground and selling it. That's. what it is. There's no.

>> poetry. [laughter]. >> Yeah. Not a lot of money to be made in. poetry, right? But the people who took. over those companies, they weren't. people who knew anything about the oil. business. They weren't people who knew. anything about the gas business cuz all. you really had to do is take over and. then you just let western companies come. in and do the drilling and and the oil. field services and all of it for you. So. these countries which are so. resourcable, the the resource wealth they have.

doesn't actually make them better for. the people because the corrupt elites. fight over those resources and that's. where you get the [ __ ] that you get. And the it's true. So Venezuela before. Chavis came to power was 98% dependent. on oil. The economy, the entire economy. was 98% dependent on oil. The slight. difference with Venezuela is when we. were taking over by Chavez, he then. installed his cronies in charge of. Pedesa, which is the the Venezuelan oil. company. And he cut out all the people.

who were competent, all the people who. were who would criticize him. ideologically. And as a result, what you. had is fundamentally incompetent people. at the top, which meant that it became. degraded. It was no longer able to pump. the oil. It wasn't reliable. So that's a. large part of the reason why the economy. collapsed is it was entirely dependent. on oil. They appointed their cronies who. couldn't actually do the job. The oil. industry failed and we descended into.

poverty and chaos. >> How much do you know about Brazil? >> Not a lot. Why? Well, I've always. that situation is very confusing, right? Lula goes to jail now. He's out. He's. running the country and they jailed Gyar. Balsinaro, right? >> Mhm. >> Like there seems And then they tried to. ban X like then they did for a while, right? >> I think so. >> And they had to make probably some. concessions. >> I don't know a lot about it truthfully,

Joe. >> Yeah. Yeah. I. >> we're gonna do that thing that no one. does on the internet is admit we don't. know something. >> Well, as long as we don't have hot. takes. [laughter]. >> What is this, >> Jimmy? These are kind of kind of crazy. descriptions of this weapon. This is. from the longer version of the CBS News. 60 Minutes article where they're talking. to that guy we just saw. >> Um, I would say start right around here. and then I'll skip to another paragraph. >> Okay. Three independent sources from. different agencies tell us undercover. Homeland Security agents purchased a. miniaturized microwave weapon from a. complex Russian criminal network. It's.

classified. We didn't see it, but it has. been described to us. We were told it. doesn't look anything like a gun. It's. designed to be concealed and small. enough to be carried by a person. It is. silent and doesn't create heat like a. microwave oven. Our sources say the. device is programmable for different. scenarios and can be operated by remote. control. The range of the beam is. several hundred feet. It can penetrate. windows and drywall. The vital. components were made in Russia. Our. sources say the key is not the hardware, but the software. The programming shapes.

a unique electromagnetic wave that rises. and falls abruptly and pulses rapidly. >> So then it turns out they have tested. this apparently in US military labs. start. >> Our confidential sources tell us still. classified weapon has been tested in a. US military lab for more than a year. Tests on rats and sheep show injuries. consistent with those seen in humans. Also, as a separate part of the. investigation, security camera videos. have been collected that show Americans. being hit. The videos are classified,

but they were described to us. In one, a. camera in a restaurant in Istanbul. captured two FBI agents on vacation. sitting at a table with their families. A man with a backpack walks in and. suddenly everyone at the table grabs. their head as if in pain. Our sources. say that another video comes from a. stairwell in the US embassy in Vienna. The stairs lead to a secure facility. In. the video, two people on the stairs. suddenly collapse. Those videos and the. weapon were among the reasons the Biden.

administration summoned about half a. dozen victims to the White House with. about two months left in the president's. term. >> And then that guy was also one of the. people in there. the ads are kind of. [ __ ] up this um. >> website. But yeah, he just sort of says. someone admitted to him that they. treated him poorly. >> Yeah, >> that's the biggest cover up I've seen in. my adult life. A CIS. >> Interesting. >> I I don't get the like the border. What. if Russia has this weapon? Why didn't. they use it to take out Zilinski?

>> Well, it seems like it's only for 100. couple hundred feet. That's what they. were just saying. Like it has to be. close, >> right? >> So what what was the one they used in. Venezuela then? >> Yeah. They started off saying it was in. a truck. It was truck size, but then. that's where it goes. I started you just. past that where they said it's actually. way smaller. >> Interesting. So, this is the one that's. that you could carry around. But do we. know that that's the same one they used. in Venezuela or do they use something. that's completely different technology? >> Yeah, we the reality is we just don't. know. I mean, the the interesting thing. as well with Venezuela is like Maduro is.

so [ __ ]. >> He's such a hot take. [laughter]. That's so. >> how [ __ ] is he? >> He literally so this is a joke. Set up. punch line. >> Yeah. He but he literally said to Trump. he said to America, "I'm not going to do. what you say. Go [ __ ] yourself. Come and. get me.". >> Yeah. He did that. >> Yeah. That was cocaine. [laughter]. >> And it's not just that he So, for. instance, uh the country next to.

Venezuela is called Guyana. And in. Guyana, they recently discovered oil, really huge large deposits of oil. And. there's been Guyana is a Brit, a former. British colony. And Venezuela and Guyana. have always been disputes about. territory, about one particular part of. I think it's called Esbo is which is. basically rainforest. They always argued. about it, but no one cared until they. discovered oil there. At which point, Maduro went, "You know what? You know.

how we've been talking about this? Turns. out it is Venezuelan. They did a. referendum in Venezuela where you. basically asked a people who were. entirely subjugated, starving, living in misery and poverty. whether they wanted to start a war with. Guyana. Do you know how many pe. Venezuelans voted for it? 92%. Joe 92%. of Venezuelans wanted to go to war. despite the fact they didn't have the. strength to even pick up a gun because. they're so malnourished. And then he.

started teaching in schools, redrawing. the map of Venezuela. So all the school. kids now think that Venezuela. incorporates this territory. Like he was. antagonizing. the Americans and their allies. consistently. And unlike Iran, he. doesn't have the infrastructure. He. doesn't have that amount of the. military, the power, the organization. >> He made himself so vulnerable. so. vulnerable.

>> Who who looks at Trump and goes, "Yeah, let's [ __ ] with that guy.". >> Right? He's 80. He He doesn't have much. to lose, >> right? Last term. >> That's the scary thing about old. leaders. It's like death is imminent. >> It's within a decade if you're lucky. That's spooky. That's spooky. like, you. know, you're making decisions for babies. and children and the future of the world. and you've only got 10 maybe 10 years. left on on Earth if everything goes. great.

>> And also, you start to degrade. >> Oh, yeah. >> Your cognitive functions. It doesn't I'm. not saying that he's got dementia or. anything like that, but you're just not. as sharp when you're that age as you are. when you're younger. >> He is I mean, he's kind of weird. Like, when I think about how much Barack Obama. aged, >> Yeah. how much Tony Blair aged. >> Trump has not aged like that. >> Yeah. And he is a terrible diet. I mean, especially when he's on the road, he. just eats junk food because he says it's. like JFK or RFK Jr. rather told me he's.

uh he eats junk food because he knows. that when he eats fast food that it's. not going to be poison. Like he knows he. can eat it and not worry about getting. food poisoning. >> What? What? >> What exactly? >> Does that make any [ __ ] sense? Well, it does because it's filled with. preservatives. So, you're not going to. get food poisoning from a Big Mac. When. was the last time you heard about. anybody getting food poisoning from a. Big Mac, >> right? [ __ ] never happens cuz nothing. can grow on those things. [laughter]. >> Really? Like, for real. Like, you've. seen them. They take like.

decades. >> Decades. Decades. They don't rot. There's so much preservatives in the. bread and and whatever the meat is. [ __ ] made with. And but but this is. my point is like Trump hasn't aged like. much younger men. >> which is even crazier because you. consider he doesn't exercise. >> right. >> and he's been under colossal I mean I. don't know but I imagine he's been under. a bit of pressure and stress. >> well assassination attempts and just all. that almost going to jail right like 34. felonies sort of trumped up you know.

pardon the pun against him. >> he's a Russian agent and all this all. this [ __ ]. >> and he's just I I He's kind of like kind. of impressive in a way. >> Oh, that part's very impressive. Yeah. And he's funny. Like he's always joking. around about that stuff and like he's. very lighthearted about it all. >> Yeah, he is. Like when he was talking. about the Iranian Navy, did you see. that? >> Mhm. >> He was like, "They've lost 14 ships. We. sunk a submarine, did this, but apart. from that, they're doing really well.".

[laughter]. He's just he's he's very relaxed for a. man in that like it's it's hard to imag. I I cannot imagine being in charge of. anything like a a a thousandth of that. size. >> Right. Just imagine the stress that you. guys have running trigonometry. >> Right. Yeah. >> Right. Stressful. I'm sure. >> Francis is a like Barack Obama. >> Yeah. [laughter] I have I used to have. black hair. >> Now I just look like an aging lesbian. John, >> it is stressful, right? >> Yeah. And that is the highest stress.

that I can ever imagine. I I can't. imagine a a level higher. >> You know, I always remember uh after the. war in Iraq and Blair was still in. power, but it was towards the end. I was. watching the news with my dad and this. woman in her 50s came along and she put. a wreath at this at the door of 10. Downing Street. And that was a mother. whose son had died in Iraq. and placed a wreath at 10 Downing Street.

of all the soldiers that died. I'm like, even if the war was justified, even if. it was the right thing to do, which I. don't think it was, I would still find. it impossible to sleep. >> right. >> now. Just imagine it was the colossal. [ __ ] up that that war was. >> right. >> and those people died as a result of. your decision. But how do you unless. you're a sociopath, I I I think that's. an you can't you live with that, >> right?

>> I I don't think you I I think it's. impossible to live with that. >> Well, clearly not though. I mean, we've. got uh people who were heavily. responsible for promoting that war in. the UK now, like Alistister Campbell, who was the spin doctor that helped. Blair lie the country into the war in. Iraq. He now has a really big podcast. and like all the young people are, "Oh, really? Tell me more. >> No way. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> So, he's the Rush Limbbo of the UK. >> Uh, how how do you mean? Sorry, I don't. know enough about Russ Limbo.

>> I I've heard the name, but I I can't I. don't get the reference in the way that. you mean it. >> He was the big right-wing propagandist. uh on radio. Excellence in broadcasting. Oh, by the way, have you seen the um the. memes that think that Rush Limbbo is. actually Jim Morrison? [laughter]. >> Yeah. Yeah. And if you look at his. facial features in comparison to Jim. Morrison's facial features, they're. almost identical. [laughter] It's kind. of nuts. They do like a scan where they. like like superimpose. >> So Rush Limbo is a media guy. Alistister.

Campbell. He was working for Tony Blair, >> right? But now the media now he has a. podcast and all the young people. Oh, really? >> Well, there was a lot of like young men. in particular that like really into Rush. Limbbo and like that like a lot of. people were crediting him with turning. young people towards a right-wing. direction. This was during the Obama. administration. Um, like look at this. Watch. Watch [snorts] when they grow. over. Pretty close.

>> It's like Alex Jones and Bill Hicks. Have you seen that? >> That one's ridiculous. [laughter] I met. both of them. They don't look anything. like each other. Look at this. Look at. that. That is kind of crazy. >> Wow. >> Right. >> It's pretty close. >> Wow. But. >> well, you know, the there's the other. crazy conspiracy theory involving the. countercultural move counterculture. movement of the 1960s with the CIA. >> There's a there's a book on it, Strange. Times in Laurel Canyon. The book's nuts.

Like, you realize like how many of these. very popular countercultural figures had. families that were in the military? Yeah. Like highlevel military. intelligence officers, including. Morrison. >> Oh, yeah. Morrison's dad was very senior. in the military. Yeah. and a bunch of. other people that were also involved. >> in, you know, the the whole Laurel. Canyon rock scene and that it was. somehow or another at least promoted by. intelligence agencies if not formulated. >> And by countercultural you mean like.

what? Like hippies? >> Yep. >> Yeah. >> So the hippie movement was promoted by. intelligence. >> Yeah. Well, >> why? >> That's a good question. Well, we know. without saying definitively, but pretty. close based on um Tom O'Neal's book, Chaos, that they were absolutely. involved in the Manson family. So, with. the reason for them being involved in. the Manson family is say you have this. new culture that's arising that doesn't. embrace materialism, make love, not war.

You got all these people, you know, drop. out, tune in, like Timothy Liry. >> Yeah. the Timothy Mc Timothy Liry. people, the the the people that are want. to do acid and just want to reimagine. society. So this is a radical change. This a radical change from the 1950s to. the 1960s. Pretty crazy. >> So what do you do to stop that? Well, what you do is you find a guy who's very. charismatic, who is a sociopath, who. who's in prison, and you find that guy. and teach him how to be a cult leader.

And then you give him acid and you show. him how to administer acid and how to. not take it and have all of his. followers take it and then direct their. thoughts and then eventually program. them like MK Ultra style to commit. murders. So they have the tabianca. murders. They have a bunch of other. stuff that they had did before that. He's gotten arrested multiple times. Every time he gets arrested they let him. go. And when they let him go like one of. the sheriffs says I was told it was. above my pay grade. So you're letting a. guy go who's a violent criminal, who's. violating parole, who's a lifelong con.

man, and now he is running this cult, and this cult is murderous. So the Tate. Labianca murders, the Manson family. murders, all that stuff becomes public. There's the hearings, the trials, the. whole thing. So the entire public. narrative changes on what a hippie is. Now hippies are dangerous. >> So before hippies were like, we're. nonviolent. We want love. We're We have. flowers. And now it's like, "Oh, these. [ __ ] people will cut your baby out. and write pig on the wall with your. blood, you know.".

>> Is is the Alimont concert connected to. that as well? The Alteront concert, you. know? You know, the Rolling Stones. concert. >> Oh, that was the That was the um Hell's. Angels. Yes. Right. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that was kind of. seen I I don't know. It's just a. question I'm asking like cuz that was. seen as the end of the hippie movement, wasn't it? That was the death. That was. the final death rattle. The hippie man. was that was how it was that's how it. was written and portrayed. >> Well, that's odd because the Hell's. Angels are not hippies and having Hell's. Angels as security is a wild move.

>> That's crazy. [laughter]. >> Yeah, because it was a Rolling Stones. concert, but in because it was a free. concert, wasn't it? That was a thing. >> How did they go about hiring See if you. can find the history on that. Did they. go about hiring the the Hell's Angels? >> Yeah. >> Both [clears throat] previously used the. Angels for security at performances. without incident. >> Grateful DeadF. >> Grateful Dead and Jefferson airplane. >> This is also the next sentence says it. was denied. So I don't know that, but.

that's what it says in the Wikipedia. here. >> Um it says for $500 worth of beer. That's all they had to pay them. The. story was denied by some parties who. were directly involved. According to the. road manager of the Rolling Stones 1969. US tour, Sam Cutler, the only agreement. there ever was, the Angels would make. sure that nobody tampered with the. generators, and that was the extent of. it. But there was no way uh they're. going to be the police force or anything. like that. That's all bollocks. The deal. was made at a meeting including Cutler, Grateful Dead Manager, Rock Scully, and.

Pete Nell, member of the Hell's Angels. San Francisco chapter. According to. Cutler, the arrangement was that all the. bands were supposed to share the $500. beer cost, but the person who paid it. was me, and I never got it back to this. day. [laughter]. Okay. He said, uh, the Hell's Angels. guy, uh, says, "We don't police things. We're not security force. We go to. concerts and enjoy ourselves and have. fun." Well, what about helping people. out? You know, giving directions and. things. He says, "Sure, we could do. that." How they would be paid? He said,

"We like beer." in the documentary Gimme. Shelter, Sunny Barger, [clears throat and cough] the guy that. was the head of the Rolling Stone uh the. head of the Hell's Angel stated that the. Hell's Angels were not interested in. policing the event and that organizers. had told them the Angels would not be. required to do or would be required. rather to do little more than sit on the. edge of the stage, drink beer, and make. sure there weren't any me murders or. rapes occurring. Um, >> the only reason I said that is because. it was that was kind of one of the.

events that was that was heralded to be. the death to be the end of the hippie. movement. >> Right. So, what happened? They stabbed. people. Something happened. >> I think it was a free concert that the. Rolling Stones and these bands put on. and then it degenerated and then a riot. broke out and then the Hell's Angels who. was obviously not trained security then. went on the rampage. And how many people died? That I don't. know. Does it say here, Jamie? >> Situation deteriorates. Killing.

>> a woman got killed. >> 22 caliber from the jacket. Draw. revolver. Drew a knife. Stabbed him 16. times in the head, neck, and back. >> Whoa. >> It's a lot of stabbing. Um, >> so it says concealing the remaining 14. stabbings. What. [clears throat and cough].

>> say high on meth when he died? >> Oh boy. >> Quitted after jury reviewed the concert. footage. >> Rolling Stones were aware of the. skirmish but not the stabbing. Couldn't. see anything. It's just another scuffle. Jagger tells David um Melissy Malles. during film editing. It soon became. apparent they could see something of. what happened because the band stopped. playing mid song and Jagger was heard. calling into his microphone. Really got. someone hurt here. Is there a doctor? After a few minutes, the band began.

playing again and eventually completed. their set. They had to get paid. Um the. abandoned the show at one point was it. say Altoont became whether fairly or not. a symbol for the death of the Woodstock. nation. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean it seems like if you're. going to have uh concerts, especially. going to have free concerts and you're. going to be using Hell's Angels as a. deterrent, you know, things could.

definitely go sideways. Yeah, [laughter]. definitely. >> And maybe they just got lucky before. when they did it for Jefferson Airplane. and The Grateful Dead. >> Yeah. >> Joe, not to change the subject, but have. you have you been following this beef. between Eddie Hearn and Dana White. >> a little bit? >> Cuz it's kind of interesting to me cuz. boxing seems to be like changing, right? Because of what the Zura boxing is. doing. Is that something you're like excited. about the possibility that boxing which. has been in, you know, there's so much. [ __ ] going on and you so very rarely.

see the best fighters fighting each. other that that might change. >> Well, the beef with those two, I I don't. know the root of it. I think it's. essentially that that, you know, it's. competition like Dana is now entering. into the MMA space. >> Into the boxing space, >> excuse me, the boxing space. And I was. gonna say Eddie Hearn is now entering. into the MMA space because now he's uh a. manager of Tom Aspenol. Yeah. Which is. very interesting. >> Um okay. Anything that gets fighters. more money I'm for. >> Yeah.

>> And if you know more attention, more. money, more different promoters, more. people competing to give people higher. purses. >> The real problem is with MMA there's. nothing. I mean there's essentially the. UFC and everything else is a distant. second. >> Yeah. And it's a distant second in terms. of uh attention. Uh in some places it's. not a distance section. It's not a. distant second in terms of revenue, right? So like the PFL for instance, the. PFL was offering a million dollars for. anybody who could win these tournaments.

And the the caliber of fighters that. were winning this tournament were not. the same caliber as UFC champions. And. then some of the people that were. competing in the UFC were not making as. much money as these people that had left. the UFC because they really weren't able. to beat the best guys. They went over. there and they made a million dollars. >> Look, I think that's good for fighters. >> It's not good for really talented guys. that really want to be the UFC champion. because you can languish over there for.

a long time. And there's some good. examples of guys who spent four, five, six years over there that really had. potential to be a world champion. And. they are, you know, in quotes a world. champion over there. But ask the average. person on the street who they are. No. one knows. Ask him who Alex Pereira is. Everybody knows. The thing is those. guys, if they're doing that and they're. getting paid more, you have to make a. decision like are you willing to take. more money now in this organization.

versus the potential of much more fame, sponsors, and maybe less money initially. in the UFC, but if you can be a. champion, >> that's really what every fighter wants. to be. Because if you spend five, six. years in an organization, the reality is. your prime is about five, six years. You. look at the elite of the elite guys, Anderson Silva in his prime, it's about. five, six years. Fedor a milliono in his. prime, it's about five, six years. So. you could you could burn out your prime.

in an organization where you're not. getting as much talent and not getting. as much recognition. So it depends on. what you're doing it for. If you're. purely a prize fighter and you want to. fight for the highest bidder, the. difference between MMA and the UFC is. you can do that in boxing. So in boxing, people go to see the fighter. You know, Terence Crawford is fighting Canelo. Alvarez, my mom could be the promoter. Nobody gives a [ __ ] They want to see. that fight. And you put that fight on. pay-per-view, it's going to sell. You. put it on Done. You put it on Netflix,

it's going to sell. In MMA, that's not. necessarily the case. M. >> the interesting challenge to that is. this Netflix thing. So with Ronda Rousey. versus Gina Corano. >> Yeah. >> Even though Gina Corano hasn't fought. since uh the 2000s. I don't remember. what year was the last time she fought. I want to make a guess. Let me guess. I. want to say 2007 2008. When was the last time Gina Carano. fought? Um and she's 43 and I think Rhonda's 39.

But Ronda is so famous and people are so. interested. And if it's on Netflix and. people already have Netflix, >> I guarantee you you'll get millions of. people that'll watch that. Yeah. So, that'll be good, right? And that's good. for the fighters. And I know they. offered uh some fighters that I know a. very large purse to compete on that. card. >> Well, Francis and Ghana might be one, right? >> He might be. Yeah, that's there's talk. of that. No, actually, I think that's. been I think that's been confirmed. I. think he's fighting Philip Lind.

>> 2009. Okay. That was the last time she. fought. >> Chris Cyborg was a beast. >> Yeah, there was a lot of supplements. involved in that. [laughter]. >> There was a lot going on with her. I. mean, that was that was the wild west of. testing and she looked freak. >> Yeah, the eye test was kind of. >> Yeah, the eye test was 100%. Um, so, >> but it'll still be exciting. People. will, you know, and hopefully they've. had enough time. I know there's a lot of. f video footage of Rhonda training for. quite a while. She lost a lot of weight.

She got really slim. She looks fit. You. know, she's she looks outstanding, especially with her grappling. She's. doing a lot of judo throws and arm bars. and she doesn't look like she's lost a. step. >> There's a difference between that and. competition. There's ring rust. There's. a lot of factors. Gian Carano was a. legit Muay Thai champion. She's got real. power. And she was a very good striker. when she was young. She was a very. technical, solid striker when she was. young. How long has it been since she, you. know, well, I mean, how long did she. stop training for? Right. She did.

movies. She's done The Mandalorian. She's had a lot of success acting, but. there it seems like there was probably. quite a bit of time. She lost a ton of. weight, too. Look. >> And she looks quite a bit bigger than. >> Those are two attractive ladies, if I. say so. Yep. And. >> Oh, Jake Paul's in the middle. >> Looks very angry. >> He looks kind of awkward there, Jake, to. be honest. Uh, you know, when it comes to. grappling, you give Rhonda a big. advantage. She's one of the best.

submission artists ever, period. You. know, her arm bar is about as good as it. gets. >> She's got fantastic judo, bronze. medalist in the Olympics. When it comes. to Gina, Gina was like a solid striker. when she was young and the difference in. striking would definitely benefit Gina. You would have to lean in her direction. But again, when you're talking about. like 2009, >> it's a long time, man. 17 years. It's a. long time to not compete. >> Well, there do seem to be a lot of. fights nowadays in in various. disciplines happening where it's like.

you're not seeing people at their prime. >> You're maybe sometimes seeing people who. aren't professionals, >> right, >> but are famous. >> And there seems to be a lot of money to. be made doing that. >> Yeah. As long as you match them. correctly, right? >> Yeah. >> That that was the thing that was wild. with Jake Paul versus Anthony Joshua. >> Uhhuh. you Jake Paul is a cruiserweight. and you've got Joshua who is heavy for. the heavyweight division. You looked at. the size matchup between the two and at. one point I was like he's going to kill. him.

>> Well, he did. [laughter]. I mean I think Jake probably knew it. going in and just I think his game plan. was just to move a lot, >> you know, and he did a lot of that. Did. a lot of moving. He uh he hit him a few. times and he hit him with some wild. shots from the outside where he kind of. dove in and threw wild punches. I think. that was probably part of the strategy. But. >> I mean, ultimately, you're looking at. Anthony Joshua, who's not just a. heavyweight champion in boxing, but a. one punch knockout artist and a former. Olympic gold medalist. >> He's a [ __ ] highly skilled man. Very.

highly, highly skilled. >> That was a strange fight because up to. that point, Jake Paul's fight was the. other way around. Like he had a he. clearly had an advantage. >> and that was like flipping the script. the other way. >> Well, smart dude, you know, very smart. >> Do you think that was smart? Yeah. Very. smart in how he promotes himself. Smart. in that like you can't criticize him for. not fighting dangerous fights anymore. >> A guy you gota respect, right? Yeah. >> The Mike Tyson one was a little sus. >> I mean Mike Tyson is, you know, he's on. the older side. Was Anthony Joshua. He's.

not that old. >> It's not just that. Like the fight. itself was a little sus. >> How do you mean? >> Cuz it looked like a sparring match, right? >> Looked like there was an agreement in. place. >> Okay. >> I don't know if there was, you know, but. Terence Crawford thought it was. >> Really? >> Yeah. It looked a little sus. I mean, Mike is How old is Mike? 58, 59. >> Yeah. I mean, I I still wouldn't get in. a ring with him. [laughter]. >> Yeah. No, I'll still kill you. But it's. like I mean, it's not saying that Jake. would have even won. I mean, who knows? I mean, if if Mike really could have.

like you saw he's capable of those. flurries when he's hitting pads, he's. still capable of massive speed and. power. It's not saying that, but it's. like could he sustain a real fight? Does. he want to get hit in the head anymore. at this point in his life? And and it's. also when you get to that age, you can. look and you can there'll be glimpses. where you're like, "Oh, this is the old. the Tyson of old.". >> But it's also as well, he's still a 58-y. old dude. You know, punch around the. head that can cause a brain hemorrhage, etc. And he can he can die.

>> Fighters die at the peak of their powers. or get brain damage. >> I mean, it's going to be I'm I'm no. neurologist, but I I'm certain that that. is a higher risk when you're 58. >> Yeah, I would recommend it. [laughter]. So, so the thing, this is why I asked. you about Eddie Hearn and Dana. There's. talk about them having a boxing match. >> Oh, that's funny. Dana can box. He can. really box. Like I've I've seen Dana hit. mitts before. I've seen Dana Spar. Dana. can actually box. And there was a time. where Dana was supposed to have a boxing. match with Tito Ortiz, >> right? >> Wow. >> And um you know, even Tito Tito.

acknowledged because Dana was his. manager at one point in time. Even Tito. acknowledged like Dana's a really good. boxer. He can box. He spent a lot of his. time boxing when he was young. I mean, I. don't know how much of it he's doing. these days. He's so [ __ ] busy, >> you know? He's so involved in Zufa. boxing now. >> and uh. >> he's involved in some of these Riad. season events. So, it's like, you know, I don't I think it's probably just talk, you know. Eddie Hearn's a very tall guy, though. >> He's a big dude. >> Yeah, he's a big dude. >> And he used to box as well. >> Did he? >> He used to he boxed his dad, I think. I.

heard him talking about that. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> There's a fight. >> Yeah. I mean, [laughter] I guess I don't. want to see it. I'll watch though. Well, this is what I mean. You don't want to. see it, but you'll watch. >> Yeah. >> Well, there's certain things I don't. want to see that I watch. Like. Slapfight, like if someone sends me a a. video, if it shows up on my Instagram. feed, of some, you know, poor slob. getting slapped into the shadow realm, I'll watch it just for how they hit. their head off the table and stiffen up. on the way down. >> Yeah, >> that's combat sports for the Tik Tok.

generation. >> Yeah. When you think about it, >> it's not even combat sports. I mean, it's just slapping each other. That's. all it is. you if you want to call. slapping each other a sport that seems. crazy. It's also there's a fundamental. problem with slap fighting is that. someone has to go first. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And that's a giant advantage. Going. first is the biggest advantage of all. time, you know. >> And that how's that decided coin toss? >> I don't know. I don't watch it. >> Is it? >> I have no idea. >> No, I can't I physically can't watch it.

to be honest. >> Yeah. Well, to me it's like this zu for. boxing is real. this is a real combat. sport whereas it's not just slapping. each other in the head. >> Well, to me the exciting thing and. correct me if this is wrong but the. exciting thing is it has felt for a long. time that seeing top boxers fighting. each other is a rare occurrence. UFC you. see that every single card. >> Yeah. Well, the Saudis are stepping up. and that's, you know, um with uh Turkey. al-Hik like his his role in boxing has.

really changed that like what what. they've done with Riad season's done is. make fights that managers have said. don't do this. >> Yeah. >> Like a a a good one is uh Martin Bakoli. versus um God I forget his name. Anderson, uh, young prospect, very good fighter. And Bakoli is a [ __ ] big, dangerous. guy. And Bakoli knocked this guy out. >> Jared Anderson. >> Jared Anderson. That's it. Um, Jared.

Anderson was a undefeated upand. cominging prospect, young guy, and. Bakoli beat him up. And uh, he really. wasn't there yet. He wasn't ready for. that guy yet. >> And Boli stopped him, and that derailed. this guy's career. But he probably got a. big paycheck. >> Right. >> Right. And so what I understand is there. was a lot of people saying that's a bad. fight to make. >> Don't do it. >> Yeah. I mean the UFC has been seems to. me from the outside quite careful about. like giving people like Bo Nickel and.

Roas Jr. and Shawn Nomali just trying to. get them to build up slow and even. they've you know R and Bo Nickel both. lost at one point right. Well, yeah. Well, Bo Nickel fought Reiner Ditter, who's a one champion and a huge guy for. the middleweight division. And Rhiner. did a fantastic job of, you know, you. don't want to take Rineer to the ground. because he's an elite submission. athlete. And standing up, he's got. vicious knees to the body. That's like. one of his best weapons. And he he.

[ __ ] Bo up. But that was a good fight. for Bo because he came back from that. and fought Hadalfo Vieiraa and looked. fantastic afterwards. like he's a real. competitor and a winner and the kind of. guy that gets knocked down like that is. going to get back up and be five times. more ferocious and that's what he is. >> But, you know, it's one of those things. where it's like why do you protect some. people and not protect others? You know, and is it because they have better. management? Is it, you know, because. sometimes the UFC will tell you like if. you want to fight in the UFC, hey, we've.

got to fight uh we need an opponent in. four days. someone dropped out and. you're going to fight blank. >> And that person who you're going to. fight might be a surging contender who's. [ __ ] terrifying, who's putting. everybody to sleep and you have to make. a decision like this is not a good fight. for me at this point in my career, but. if I say no to the UFC, maybe they will. never offer me a fight again. >> And also, you're a fighter and fighters. from everything that I know would you're. going to back yourself. >> Yes. But you have to do that.

intelligently, right? You have. [clears throat] to realize that if you. if you are in a process and this is the. thing about everyone up into like. championship level up until a certain. point in time when you plateau everyone. is constantly getting better. So if you. you you get better from training, you. get better from work with your coaches, but you also get better with experience. And what boxers and boxing management. has always done is make sure that you. get the proper experience and the proper. kinds of opponents are going to test you. in certain ways along the way. So the.

idea is you give a fighter a stiff test. that they can pass. You don't give a. fighter a chance where they're going to. compete against someone who's many, many. levels above them and they don't have a. chance at all because that can destroy. confidence that could like cause real. damage to you. You can get really badly. hurt and never be the same again. There's certain fights that fighters. have where they are never the same. again. They get knocked out by someone. and they just aren't the same. They get. a flying knee to the face and they're. done. They get a head kick and they're. done and they just are never the same. guy again. And you could point to.

numerous examples of good fights where. there weren't mismatches, but that a. fighter was never the same again. >> It's a dangerous sport. >> It's it's I mean it is the most in I. mean it's not the most in terms of. death. Boxing is the most in terms of. death. And I think that's because they. have less options. >> You know, you can't clinch. You can't. hold on, try to take a fight to the. ground. You can't defend yourself as. well. There's also the thing where you. get knocked down and you get back up. Well, you clear your head momentarily, but you're still [ __ ] And now you.

can't get out of the way of punches. Now. you're really getting [ __ ] up. And. you're getting much more damage than you. would have gotten if you got clipped. that first time and then the guy punched. you a couple times when you're on the. ground. >> You got choked out. >> Yeah. Or you got choked out is way. better. Choked out's way better. Arm bar. way better. Just tap and then you're. good. >> It's also the duration of the fight. Boxing matches tend to last for a lot. longer normally if they go the duration. >> They certainly can. If it's 12 minutes, right, you're dealing with 36 36 minutes. of fighting of getting punched in the. head versus 25 for an MMA fight. The.

opposite of that you would say though, but they're not getting slammed on their. head. They're they're not getting. kicked. They're not getting kneede in. the face. They're not getting cut open. with elbows. There's a lot of things. that can happen in an MMA fight that are. way worse. But do you do you also think. as well that when I watch MMA losses. look of course losses are detrimental. and they affect careers and they knock. people back but they don't seem to be as. consequential as losses in boxing. >> in terms of your career. >> Yeah. In terms of your career and the. way you're perceived, >> right? Well, I think it's accepted that.

if you're fighting. bunch of different styles, you know, style versus style, you're there's. always a potential of losing, especially. amongst the elite of the elite. And. you're seeing more of that in MMA at the. highest level. Yeah. You're not seeing. guys avoiding each other because there's. one champion and it's a UFC champion in. that weight class and you have to fight. that guy if you want the title. Whereas. there's the WBC, the WBO, the IBF and. you have all these different. organizations for boxing and so you can.

be a champion while avoiding the other. champions. >> Whereas in the UFC that's the thing. that's exciting is like you get to see. Max Holloway who is a super dominant. guy, right? And then he fights Charles. Olivea. >> Yeah. >> And it's it doesn't go that way. >> It's crazy. >> That that was so dominant. >> Yeah. It was so dominant. And Max. Holloway was a two to1 favorite at least. at some points in the the betting line. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And it kind of look I mean obviously. Hamzad Chimay is a whole category of its. own, but it sort of felt a little bit. that level of domination on the ground.

>> Yeah. The difference is Holloway was. getting dominated on the feet too. >> Olive is [ __ ] dangerous as [ __ ] on. the feet. I mean, he was better. everywhere. >> Yeah. >> And he's bigger. He's a bigger guy. And. you could you could see that in the. exchanges. Like every time he got a. clinch on Max, he just hoisted him up in. the air and slammed him to the ground. It was so definitive, >> right? >> That was a spec spectacular performance. by Oliver. But. >> it was. >> the thing that my concern going into. that fight was I'd watched the Matteas. Matau Gamarrot fight with Olive. I'm.

like Alivera is as good if not better. than he's ever been before. Camrod is. [ __ ] dangerous and he's a really good. grappler and they went to the ground and. he was lost. Olive was just tying him up. in knots. He wasn't able to get anything. off on Olive. I'm like, what is Max. going to be able to do on the ground. against this guy? And then when it comes. to standing up, >> Justin Gachi said no one ever hit him. harder than Olivera did. That Olivea is. like he carries big power in his punches. and big power in his kicks, too. And. he's he's so reckless on the feet. not.

reckless, I should say, but just like so. aggressive on the feet because he wants. you to take him to the ground. >> cuz he's the best submission artist in. the history of the sport. He has more. submissions than anyone ever in the. history of the sport. >> Wow. >> And the thing that you don't appreciate, I mean, you really kindly sorted out. tickets for us in the uh UFC in New. York. >> And you know these guys kick hard. You. know they punch hard, but when you're. there ringside and you feel the kick, you're like, >> "Oh yeah, you guys were close." That's. the thing is when you're close, you can. hear the. >> the slap. You know what happened though.

in New York? We sat down and then some. guy that I didn't initially recognize. came and sat in front of us. >> and that was Dylan Dannis and he kicked. off this whole. >> the brawl. >> He sat literally right in front of us. >> Oh, you had a front row seat. >> Yeah, we did. >> So, the actual fight. >> Oh, boy. [laughter] Was that exciting? [gasps]. >> Yeah. Well, I just turned to the side. and then there was this just giant brawl. right in front of us all of a sudden. It. was. >> Those are very unfortunate. You don't. like those? >> Yeah. No, me neither. It was crazy. It. was crazy. Well, Dylan Danis, he knows. how to get a lot of attention.

>> Yeah, >> that and yeah, [laughter] he does. And I. will say this, I don't agree with his. behavior, but unlike a lot of online. trolls, that guy actually does it in. real life. Do you know what I mean? >> Right. >> He actually like I don't like. >> Dylan can fight. He can fight. He's a. very good submission artist. He's a. Marcelo Garcia black belt. He's very. legit on the ground. Conor McGregor. brought him in for training like for a. lot of his camps. >> Yeah. >> Are you excited for the White House. card? That looks really good. Uh, yes. Um, I'm excit It's It sounds crazy. I.

know it's going to be very high security. and high stress and weird to have a. fight at the [snorts] White House in the. middle of a [ __ ] war. But I. [laughter] would hope the the war will. be sorted out by June, but quite. honestly, I'm not confident that that's. going to be the case. >> No. >> Yeah. No. >> Yeah. So, that would be weird having. this very high-profile event where. everybody's in one place at one time, right there. >> I hadn't thought of that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So, you're not excited to be there? That. seems like it seems like you're asking. for. >> Holy [ __ ] I had thought of that at all. >> How could you not think of that?

>> Well, cuz cuz I'm not going to be there. You're the one that has to think of it. I was just like, "This is a great. lineup. I look forward to the fights.". >> Yeah, >> cuz if you want to talk about hidden. hard, I mean, Ilia Taporia, [ __ ] me. >> That's when you think like Max Holloway. and Charles Olivera. Charles Olivera. dominates Max Holloway. And then you. realize like how quickly Ilia Deoria. starched Charles Olivera and you go, "How good is that guy?" Right. He's a. once in a generation talent. Like he's. he knocked out in three fights three.

all-time greats. >> Vulcanowski and then he knocks out Max. Holloway and then he knocks out Charles. Olivivera in two different weight. classes. He knocks out three all-time. greats three fights in a row and he just. definitive starching of these guys. Like. he's a once in a generation talent. And. think how good Vog how dominant Vog is. >> Yeah. >> Like how good he looked against Diego. Lopez, right? How good Max Holloway. looks all the time, especially in the. striking exchanges. Max is a very hard.

guy to hit. And Ilia just dominated him. He's [ __ ] spooky good and insanely. confident, insanely charismatic. >> Yeah. Do you think part of it is as well. is just technique is so important is the. is the most important thing because you. look at Usyk when he came up against. Fury. >> and the first fight I didn't give you a. prayer like you is basically a a. glorified cruiserweight right. >> and you look at Tyson Fury 68 undefeated. you know he comes from a traveler. background this is a guy who was taught.

to box from the age of three I've taught. traveler kids they they all taught how. to fight they know how to fight they. know how to throw punches boxing is in. their. And you just saw that he was so. technically supreme. >> Yeah. >> That Fury had no answer and lost. consecutive fights against him. >> Yeah. And then look at what he did to. Dubois. >> You know, Usyk is special. I mean, he's. he's basically a gigantic Lomachenko. >> Like unbelievable movement. And he was. trained by Lomachenko's father as well. Same same trainer.

>> Yeah. Um I mean there's just people that. are better than everybody else. And it. seems like I is one of those guys. He's. just weirdly better than everybody else. and he and he can take it too. Like one. of the fights that he had, so when he. was competing at featherweight, he took. a fight at lightweight against Jai. Herbert and Jai Herbert in the first. round caught him with a perfect head. kick. Rocked him, dropped him, and Ilia. Tapora wind up grabbing his legs, taking. him down. They fought on the ground and. then the second round Ilia just put him. into the shadow realm. He hit him with a.

combination against the cage where he. hit him with a I think it was a left. hook to the body and a right overhand. that just spun his head around. It was. wild. I mean, face first, face planted. He's He's got freakish power. So, it is. technique. His technique is flawless. His technique and the grappling is. flawless, but it's also. >> Was he good at grappling as well? >> He's phenomenal at grappling. That's his. main base. He started off as a grappler. >> Really? >> Yeah. I didn't even know that. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. and his early fights are. just taking.

>> You don't see that much nowadays. He. just [ __ ] knocks everyone out. basically, right? >> He's just I It's his mind more than. anything. His confidence is real. It's. not bluster. Like he's he's really s. >> He celebrates the fights the day before. the fight. He has a celebration of his. victory. He did that against Charles. Olivera. They all went out to dinner. They're making toasts celebrating his. victory the night before the fight. itself. >> That's a high-risisk strategy. >> It's a crazy thing. Mimog goes out and. knocks him out in the first round. Like. who [ __ ] knocks out Charles Olivivera.

in the first round like that that. especially now like the Charles Olivera. of today? That's crazy. He's it's it's. it's. the mind that allowed him to get so. elite at grappling also allowed him to. get so elite at striking, >> right? >> And it's it's setups and traps. It's not. just throwing wild bombs. It's defense. His defense is fantastic. You saw that. in the Josh EMTT fight. Josh Emmett, like as far as like one punch power, he. rivals everybody. I mean, you saw that.

fight where he knocked Bryce Mitchell. out with a punch to the forehead. That. guy hit so [ __ ] hard. And when you. look at it, it it makes sense. I mean, he's a [ __ ] tank. >> Yeah. >> And I Deora just slipped away from. everything. Slipped away from everything. and then eventually just put it on him. >> Yeah. >> He's he's great everywhere, man. He's. great on the ground. He's great standing. up. And more importantly, it's his mind. like he doesn't make mistakes. He's a. he's just a force in there. >> Yeah. >> He's the new breed, you know, like with.

every generation there's every. generation builds on the success of the. previous generation. They all learn from. the elites of the past. >> He's our version of what's possible now. >> Wow. >> He's that good. >> I was hoping I was hoping for the White. House card Dana would do something and. pull Jon Jones out of the bag. >> I was hoping that as well. Yeah, I was. hoping that as well. >> That would have been really special. >> Yeah. I don't know why that didn't. happen. I don't know. I mean, there's. John's version. There's the UFC's. version. I don't know what was the.

stumbling block there. >> Well, I think it's fair to say him and. Dana don't get on very well. >> I don't think it's that bad. It's They. certainly could make a deal. That's I. don't think it's as bad as like say. Francis Enano. The Francisano situation. like Dana does not like him at all and. won't do any business with him period. >> Cuz that would be the fight. Franciso. versus Jon Jones. Oh my word. That would. be good. But also Alex Pereira versus. Jon Jones would be the fight as well. Like you wouldn't it didn't a title. doesn't mean anything. You could do the.

BMF heavyweight version. Like it doesn't. matter, >> right? >> Like just those two guys fighting. I. mean that would be titles are irrelevant. when you're dealing with the all-time. great in Jon Jones, the greatest of all. time. And then Alex Barrera, a. generational talent who's the most. devastating striker we've ever seen. inside the sport. I mean, as you look at. Ilia, I mean, Ilia is phenomenal, but. Ilia is like more complete as a fighter, >> but Alex is freaky. I I ever tell you. what Mark Goddard said when he fought. Khalil Roundtree. So, he he beats Khil.

Roundry up and they stop the fight and. then Mark Goddard grabs me like as I go. into the octagon, he goes, "The sound it. makes when he hits them is ungodly.". [laughter] That's what he said. He goes, he goes, "Mate, I've been doing this for. 20 years." He goes, "I've seen it all.". He goes, "It's different. The sound, the. impact is like he's a freak, man. That. guy, he he's a physical freak. I mean, he's a real genuine Amazon warrior who's.

just built different than other people, >> you know? I'm sure you've seen him punch. that machine.". >> Yeah. >> Where he gets like 190. Francis Enano. got like 129. What? >> And he got 190. Yeah. Holy [ __ ]. >> Yeah. No, it's freak power. >> I did not enjoy watching the end of that. Khalil roundree fight. I'm not going to. lie. That was rough. I mean, >> and Khalil Roundry is like a [ __ ]. animal. >> He's a warrior. He's just a warrior. I. mean, he knew going into that fight, he. was willing to go out on his shield. He. wasn't afraid. And he went after him. He.

went after him. He did. >> But the consequences of getting hit and. then Alex was starting to tune him up at. the end where he was leaning away from. shots and then countering and leaning. away from shots and countering. He was. he was in his flow state and that's. where it got real spooky. >> because Khalil became like a sitting. target and with each shot his ability to. get out of the way diminished with each. kick that landed his ability to move. diminished and it got spooky. >> Yeah. And then it becomes a dilemma for. the referee like when do you actually. step in because.

>> look there there's a consent for the. fighter to be there and to take part in. the fight but there comes a point where. you have to step in for the for the. fighter's own health. >> Yeah. There comes a point where you. realize they can't defend themselves. anymore and they're getting just tuned. up and that was the end of the fight. I. mean, that was the right time to stop. it, but it was hard to watch. >> It was. But then you get fights like. Usuzman versus Leon Edwards. >> Mhm. >> Where he's getting smashed for five. rounds and he just [ __ ] pulls a kick. out of him in the last minute and knocks. him out. >> Yeah. So, but he wasn't getting smashed. >> Not Not the way Khalil Roundry was at.

the end. That's fair. Yeah, that's fair. >> He wasn't getting He was getting beat. >> He was getting beat. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. But he wasn't like in danger. of getting stopped or really hurt badly. But that's why we all watch it because. it's that knowledge that anything can. happen. >> You know, Hakeim Ryman versus Lennox. Lewis. You know, no one gave. >> no one gave Hakee a prayer when he went. in. He was Lennox is a supreme fighter, Olympic gold medalist, one of the. greatest to ever do it. >> And then that one punch he hit flush on.

Lennox's jaw and he was out. I remember. watching it going, I mean, no one saw. that. >> Especially in the heavyweight division, one punch with those guys. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's why I really like it cuz in our. world like you know if I do a debate. everyone talks [ __ ] to each other and. like you know everyone talks [ __ ] then. they go have a debate everyone still. talks [ __ ] afterwards. In in combat. sports everyone talks [ __ ] and then you. find out. >> right. Yeah. [laughter] Yeah. It's very. definitive. You win or you lose. It's. not subject to other people's. interpretations of cuz like you'll see. that in debates too. Like I'll see a. debate where I I think like in for you.

for example like you clearly won the. debate and then I'll see people say you. got owned, >> right? You know, and they're like, "Okay, >> all all the people who agree with me say. I dominated and all the people who agree. with other guys say he he dominated.". >> Yeah. And you you'll see these pundits. and it's that's a weird economy, right? There's a weird economy of commentators. on other people's exchanges. >> Yeah. >> And it's that is a weird sport. It's a. weird. >> You've made loads of careers. There's. loads of people. Joe Rogan said this on. his part. That's the entire content. >> They work for me. They don't even know.

it. [laughter]. >> They do. They make me more famous, >> right? Yeah. >> You're getting all the kickbacks. Also, you you get to see what kind of a person. they are, right? And they're they're. silly, [ __ ] people. You go like, "Well, the silly, [ __ ] people don't. like them." Or maybe someone who you. agree with doesn't like me. Like, oh, I. don't like him anymore. Which is fine. But it's like that economy of commenting. on other people constantly. The problem. with that is. >> you've always put yourself in a position. of an outsider, right? >> You know, you're a com like me, right?

In when it comes to combat sports, I'm a. commentator. That's all that's all I do. I can't fight. I'm 58, right? I'm not. going in there. So, it's like I'm always. going to be in this position of only. being an observer and a commentator. I'm. not going to be a per like for those. people that are commentating on these. debates, a lot of them probably fancy. themselves intellectual gladiators. They. just don't get the opportunity to do it. >> And occasionally they do and they. usually get trounced, right? >> Because really they're not that good, which is why they're commenting in the. first place and why they have these. [ __ ] stupid hot takes.

>> [laughter]. >> Well, you know, the frustrating thing. for me with the debates nowadays is how. few people want to have an actual. discussion. >> It was so refreshing. We last time we. came here, we had Dave Smith on our. show. I don't know if you saw that one. >> Yeah, I did. Yeah, >> we loved it. We loved it. >> and Dave enjoyed it and and you know, it. was weird because we obviously have lots. of different perspectives on things, but. afterwards a lot of people were like, "Oh, can't believe you had Dave on." And. I kept I said to all of them, listen,

Dave's only crime is that he has a. different opinion to you. Because apart. from that, he comes in, he shows up, he's super nice, he's respectful, he's. polite, he doesn't do any dirty tricks, right? >> He doesn't argue about the definitions. of words that for 10 minutes, right? He. just goes, "Here's my opinion. Here's. your opinion. Let's discuss.". >> Yeah. >> And that's how conversation should. happen, >> right? >> But so much of the debate stuff now is. not people aren't discussing the issues. They've just like decided you're a bad. person. And that's what they're trying.

to achieve. They're trying to get a. cheap laugh from the audience that. they're playing to who's not even in the. room cuz they know their [ __ ]. followers are going to watch it online. afterwards and be like, "Oh, he owned. them.". >> But where did we get to? >> Well, it's just a I mean, it's just some. people that are doing that, you know, and those people that's all they can do. That's why they do it that way, right? You know, if they were really. intellectually compelling. >> and if they were like smart people, like. I don't want enemies. Like if I if I can. have a a sane, rational, peaceful. discussion with someone where we.

disagree with something, I would greatly. prefer that. >> then have someone who's insulting me and. I'm insulting them. We're trying to like. get off on each other. Like why? >> Yeah. >> I I'm busy. >> Yeah. >> I have things to do. Like I don't need. that kind of [ __ ] in my life. And I. don't mind when someone disagrees with. me. I think it's healthy. >> I also want to know why you think the. way you think genuinely. >> Right. >> I I you know what I see it as an. opportunity as like because we all have. blind spots. Yeah, >> we all have blind spots. We all have. biases. I don't care who you are, how. smart you are, you have biases, you have.

blind spots. [laughter]. >> Not me, mate. I know everything. >> But but when someone goes, "Well, actually, Francis, you say this, but. what about this? Have you thought about. this? Have you read about this?" I'm. like, "No." It's like, well, maybe you. should, >> right? >> And maybe you actually maybe won't. change your opinion, but certainly have. a more nuanced opinion. >> True. Yeah. >> But also, we're talking about [ __ ] that. actually matters. >> Mhm. you know, and it deserves to be. taken seriously. >> Yeah. Well, the the the answer is don't. engage with those certain people. Yeah.

>> You know, I'm learning that. >> Yeah. We were having a conversation. about one particular individual. Yeah. >> Where I'm like, why? Don't bother. >> I can't believe you I I didn't say. anything about that discussion cuz I was. just like, I don't want anyone to waste. their [ __ ] time watching it. It was. It was awful. I'm fascinated by that too. though because I'm fascinated by these. people that are doing that where they're. just trying to win and use tricks and be. sneaky because like they they think of. discourse in a completely different way, right? >> They think about the whole thing in a. completely different way. They're. completely ideologically captured and.

they're the place they're starting from. is I want to prove this to be correct. not I want to know why this person. believes it to be incorrect and I want. to find out if maybe we have common. ground and maybe maybe they know. something I don't or maybe I know. something they don't and let's find out. >> You know what I you know what I really. want and Const and I have talked about. it a lot. I want somebody on the left to. come up and be brilliant at debating and. go to people on the right well you say. this and you say this but actually let's. look at this let's look at that and be a.

genuine intellectual force. And what I. despair of is I haven't seen anyone be. from the left like that in basically a. generation. >> I think the generation that you're. talking about has been captured by some. certain narratives that you have to. agree to that aren't rational. >> So as soon as you do that and you you. align yourself with this particular. ideology, >> you're already saying, "I'm willing to. believe some [ __ ] that doesn't make any. sense at all because this is the only. way to be accepted by my tribe." That.

intellectually compromises you. And that. that also I think humiliates you in a. certain way. It puts you in a position. where you're saying something that you. know can't be true. So you set up blind. spots. >> Do you think they know it's not true? >> I think there's got to be a part of them. that realizes there's a good argument. that it's not true. >> You know, especially when it comes to. like transgender stuff or or border. stuff. There's there's certain things. where like. >> there's no real good faith argument that. you should have an open border and allow. [ __ ] any psychopath to come across. the border and invade your community.

That seems crazy. That seems crazy. Like. if you understand anything about human. nature and the the nature of the world. and the level of poverty and crime that. exists outside of the United States, particularly in third world countries, we're just allowing. >> I thought you were talking about Canada. there, Joe. [laughter]. >> I'm all for them evading. They should. come over. They should bail on their. country until it gets better. I just ask. you because I would find it so hard to. go on stage in front of well what is now. hundreds of thousands of people by the. time it goes on the internet, right? And.

just vigorously defend something I. didn't believe. >> Well, that's cuz you're smart. And I. think the problem is a lot of these. people aren't really intelligent. What. they are is a person who has a good. vocabulary, who's acquired a certain. amount of technique and skill involved. in talking really fast and spouting. things that they've seen online that a. bunch of narratives. Like one of the. things that people love to do is if. you're talking to anyone that's on the. right, they want to say, you know,

you're you you support a 34 time. convicted felon. And you know, there's a. lot of a lot of things that they like to. say. There's techniques involved instead. of like discussing anybody that looked. at the actual Trump case. If you're. rational and you're on the left, you say. that's a crazy case. >> There's no way that should be a felony. It's not a felony. There 34 different. misdemeanors and it's also it's past the. statute of limitations. This is the. craziest egregious misuse of justice. And the scary thing is if someone on the.

right gets in, they decide to do that to. someone on the left, like you got to put. your foot down, stop that from. happening. the Russia Russia Russia. stuff like the all that stuff, the. Russia gate stuff. Like that's kind of. crazy that someone on the left doesn't. call that out and say, "Hey guys, this. is [ __ ] dangerous because if you're. lying and you're having intelligence. agencies lie and you're having people. lie on television and you're just. accepting that." Why? Because it's your. side. You're they're supporting your. side. That's crazy. >> That's why and and I find that very. strange because what they do is they.

pivot to that. >> Mhm. which is not relevant to the. conversation we're having. Exactly. We're talking about, you know, is it is. it right to do these strikes on Iran or. is it this or is it that is, you know, what's the situation in the Middle East. or whatever. >> How it how does bringing up Trump's. convictions or otherwise change that? It. doesn't affect that conversation or the. border or or the trans thing or any of. the other things. And that's the thing. is like, can we just argue the [ __ ]. point? >> Well, I think at a certain point in. time, you're going to have to choose.

real opponents. It's like a Jake Paul. thing. >> But [laughter] but but see, I want the. real opponents, but where are they? Where are they? And we've had people on. the show where it's like we had um this. this woman from the Guilty Feminist. podcast and she came on and we gave 40. minutes. She basically laid out her. whole vision. >> and it was respectful and polite and it. was it was a great conversation. actually. The moment I said, "Well, you. know, you've been speaking for the this. time. Here's some of the things that I. see that don't make sense in my head. Can you help me out?" Immediately goes. personal. >> Mhm.

>> Immediately. >> Yeah. And that's what Francis is saying. Like I'd love to see people who have an. ability to argue the point. >> Yeah. >> And that's that's what Dave does. He. argues the point and that's either. persuasive to you or it isn't. >> Well, I think the problem is their point. is not very good. >> Yeah. I think that is the problem. >> Yeah. So, you have to go personal. You. have to attack people. You have to use. ad homonyms. It's the only way you can. get anything off. And then you could try. to get that person emotional and trap. them. So why don't they change their.

opinion then? >> It's a good question because if you're. ideologically captured, especially if. you're on the left, like it's a very. clear ideology and there's like real. blowback for deviating from it. >> Yeah. >> As we know, right? Because the moment. you say, well, you you're no longer on. the left anymore, >> right? Well, a lot of people have been. kicked out of it. >> A lot of people have been pushed into. some weird quasi. >> Yeah. >> homeless land. >> Well, that's how we all ended up as like. rightwing. I was like, "Fuck off with. this shit.". >> Yeah. [ __ ] off with this [ __ ].

>> You know, when I to 20 years ago, all. the stuff that we talk about it, it. wasn't just like not rightwing. It's no. one questioned. >> Do you remember do you remember 25 years. ago people running around going, "We. need an open border." [laughter]. >> Right. >> Right. Or like you can change your sex. by just going like abracadabra. >> Right. >> No one said that. And so we weren't. rightwing for like going that's crazy. >> I know. You know, the most bizarre thing. is watching all these kind of left-wing. lesbian feminists get be described as.

rightwing and getting kicked out. >> JK Rowling. never over my life. >> Yeah, there's a there's a there's a. journalist [laughter] called Julie. Bindle used to ride the Guardian, one of. the most left-wing journalists and she's. lesbian and she criticized like and she. was like the trans movement. That was. it. Out the door. Doesn't matter what. you've done before. It doesn't matter. You've done all this incredible work. with women and female prisons. Well, it's because it's a cult. I mean, it's. essentially like a religious ideology. Like they they will not take any.

heretics. Like anybody that deviates. from whatever their doctrine is, like. you're out. You're out forever. And that. scares people. So that that's one of the. reasons why they're willing to comply. and follow some of this goofy [ __ ] and. say no one's illegal on stolen land. >> Yeah. >> What's interesting is it doesn't happen. on the right nearly the same way. Like. you can see it now. The right is engaged. in a fierce debate internally. >> Mhm. >> And people [ __ ] argue and they hash. it out and then they like they go have a.

beer afterwards. >> I think they're doing it just the same. way. I think it's a b I think it's a. human thing. Yeah. I think there's. people on the right that do it just the. same way. There's people that call. people out for not being MAGA enough, you know? Yeah. >> It's just like right now the whole. thing's in turmoil whereas there's not. really the same kind of turmoil on the. left where there's internal debate. the. the turmoil on the left is the left. versus the right. >> Yeah. >> The turmoil on the right right now, I. think there's a lot of people right. versus right and they're trying to find. out like and I think there's a lot of.

people that they don't believe what. they're saying either. They're just. trying to find a thing that aligns with. the biggest audience. >> I think that's definitely happening. I. also think though internal debate within. a big broad church movement is a good. thing because what you're arguing about. is like what is the right direction? Yep. you know, and I do think that is. more healthy. >> I I think working out what it is that. that that like whatever if you're on the. right, we believe. >> I as as I'm not on the right, but as I. see that, I do think that's a healthy.

thing to do because you're arguing about. the direction of that movement. >> Yeah. >> And I think that's much healthier than. what happens on the left where it's just. like, well, if you don't agree with this. wacky idea that's far far out there, then you're no longer part of this. But. I think the good thing about these. debates is it exposes that and anybody. who's objective, especially anybody that. is, you know, a swing voter or anybody. who's in the middle of all this, which. is a lot of people. A lot of people, >> most people, I think, right? >> Yeah. Most people are kind of in the. middle on most most political issues.

They get to see how crazy some of this. [ __ ] is and it makes them less likely to. follow, >> you know. But it's also as well from a. neutral perspective and I I mentioned. the point about I want a strong left. I. want a strong left which has got good. ideas about how to tackle things which. are really important like inequality. >> like the cost of living. How do we make. it that people can actually have a. better standard of life where if a woman. wants to stay at home with her kids, she.

can do that where they're not for then. have to go out and have to work and put. the kids in daycare which then leads to. a whole host of problems. How can we. have a better world for ordinary people. which is what the left always used to. be. >> I we need a strong left to then. challenge the right so that the center. becomes a more fertile ground. And if we. don't have that, if we have these crazy. loons on the left, then what we have is. a right which will come to dominate, which I don't think is good for society. as a whole. I'm going to be honest with.

you. >> No, it's never good if one one party. left or right, is completely dominant. It's not good. >> Yeah. You need checks. Yeah. Right. And. you know, the right has its share of. crazies, too, as we've been talking. >> 100%. Praise Jesus. [laughter]. >> All right, we got to wrap this up, gentlemen. I love you guys. >> Very quickly, >> oh, your book. Yeah, I've got a book. It's out. >> It's called Uneducated: My Life as a. Teacher and Why You Should Never Become. [laughter] One and Never Is In Bold. >> An inspiring story. >> Francis Foster. All right. I love you.

guys. It's always great to see you. Bye, everybody. [music].