Joe Rogan Experience #2461 - Robert F. Kennedy, Jr.

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. All day. >> I like them. But if it's just me wearing. them, I feel stupid. >> Why do you wear them? >> I like it cuz it locks me in. Just locks. me in. The only thing I hear is that. person's voice and I I can't hear. Jaime's chair moving. I I can't hear. anything else. And it just like makes me. really like focused on the conversation.

only. >> I have ADHD. I was at 11 siblings and I. have seven kids. So I can work. [laughter] I can focus. >> no matter what. >> No matter what. >> It's a skill. It's a thing to learn. You. know, if you if you're the person that. can focus without distraction, you're in. a good. >> You're a good person to be in the job. you're at. >> Yeah. >> What is it like? So, since you've been. appointed, I I haven't talked to you uh.

on a podcast since. >> I know. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Um it it's the best job I could ever. have. I I feel like I was designed for. the job and. I just have so much fun. I mean, it's a. it's a target-rich environment. So, there's so many ways that you can. effective and be effective and improve. people's lives every single day. Part of. that is because the agency was just such. a mess. You know, it was it wasn't doing. health care. It was doing sick care and.

just managing the, you know, all of. these perverse incentives. It have us spending5 trillion dollars a. year, two to three times per capita what. any other nation spends. And we have the. sickest population in the world. We have. the highest chronic disease burden in. the world. and you were the best at. medicine in this country, but that's when people get sick. You'd. rather get sick here than any place in. the world, but you're more likely to be.

sick here than any place in the world. [laughter]. And you know, and then it was just a big. political patronage. um operation and it still is. And you. know, we're putting an end to that now. I mean the the amount of fraud that goes. through that place. we lose just in Medicaid and Medicare. hundred billion dollars a year and it's. all just this really you know shocking. blatant fraud where that's become.

industrialized. I mean there there is. foreign nations like Russia, everybody's. heard of Somalia, but also Cuba has this. operation in Florida where it's um. [clears throat] they open up these. little um they open up um these these PO. boxes for durable medical equipment is. like knee braces. and wheelchairs and then they don't have. any knee braces or wheelchairs but they.

have patient and identification numbers. So, they just claimed to be shipping. them to people. And we found one hotel. It had like 129 rooms in it. Everyone. was a different company that was selling. durable medical equipment. And we go in. and shut them down and they immediately. go back to Cuba. The whole thing is. apparently run by the Cuban government, but Russia is doing the same thing with. hospices in.

>> Where do they get the patient ID. numbers? >> They get they can buy those numbers, you. know, they on the black market. >> Really? [snorts]. >> Yeah. And Russia does the same thing um. in Los Angeles with hospice care. So. there's there's more hospice care in Los. Angeles than the entire rest of the. country combined. It's all fraudulent. And we're just pumping hundreds of. millions of dollars into these.

fraudulent operations. The same thing. that the Somali did in in Ethiopia. A. lot of that money was going back to. Boang and you know terror groups over. there. But they were it was a lot of it. was based the Medicare and stuff is. different and we're we're able to we're. going to be able to catch almost all of. that now because we're using AI to do. it. It was never used before. There was. no effort at program integrity. In fact, the Biden administration.

deliberately purposely ordered them. They ended the program integrity office. So they went from hundreds of people to. six people and they said, "We don't want. you doing program integrity. We just. want you doing enrollments.". And um and so we got all this fraud. It. was most of it came from these waiverss. that the states got, all the states got. them for home care and community care. So, you know, 30 years ago, Medicaid,

Medicare play, if you got a hernia. operation, we paid for that. And you could tell. somebody got the hernia operation cuz. they had the scar, they used a licensed. nurse, they used a licensed doctor, was. all documented. Then they some of the. states said, you know, we're sending a. whole lot of people to the hospital and. if and we don't have home care. providers. Oh, if you if we if you let. us pay family members to do home care,

the patient won't have to go to the. hospital. They won't have to go to the. emergency room and we'll save a lot of. money. So, it was well-intentioned, but. then what happened is people immediately. started abusing it. So today, if you um. [clears throat] these are services that. are not normally played by family. members, performed by family members, buying groceries for your grandmother. and bringing them home, you now get paid. for that, balancing your grandmother's.

checkbook, driving her to a to a medical. visit. So um so then you had these you. know organized fraud where and this what. happened in Minnesota. these um these organized crime companies. would come in and say you designate this. family this you designate all your. children have autism now even if they. didn't and we're going to now pay. providers for each of them and we'll.

give you a few thousand dollars to do it. but then they would collect all the. money and that's what was happening It's. happening all over the country because. there was no it's very very difficult. there the guard rails on that system. were very pvious and anybody can defraud. it. If you are inclined to do fraud this. was you know this was an irresistible. opportunity. >> How long was this going on for? Like. when did this fraud begin? Do you. believe.

>> it really accelerated during the Biden. administration? We expected to pay for. the the Minnesota program just for. autism care for kids who have autism. The kids need the care because, you. know, they go to maybe a special school, but then they come home from school and. the parents aren't there because they're. working. Who's going to take care of. them? Um, so in legitimate. circumstances, you would want to pay for. that. But what happened is they just.

started this wholesale fraud. We. expected the cost of that program to be. about $3 million a year in Minnesota in. Minneapolis. It got up in over a three-year period. It got up to $400 million a year. So. they, you know, it was all fraudulent. almost. >> I just don't understand. So this. accelerated during the Biden. administration, but when did it begin? Like how long has it been going on. program integrity? They told. specifically they told people in my.

agency and I've talked to them, we don't. want to do program integrity anymore. We. now just want to focus everything on. enrollments. In other words, enrolling. more people in Obamacare and the and the. programs. And you know, you could say. there was um bad motives there because. one, the states don't pay the states pay. a tiny fraction of it, but it's all goes. to the federal government. So the states. don't really want to do uh fraud uh.

detection because all that money is. coming into their estate and then every. time you enroll somebody you're. registering them to vote and so you know. they may have had ulterior motives let. me put it that way. Um but you know. right now what we're doing is we're. saying to the states we have audited. you. We expect that we believe that 50%. of the uh program dollars you're. spending were fraudulent or possibly.

fraudulent. You show us a corrective action that. you're going to take or we're going to. withdraw that money the next time. The. money is not being withdrawn from. individuals. But we're not reimbursing. the state for it until like they told. us. Now the red states have all said, "Yeah, we'll do it." But Maine, Minnesota, California, New York have said, "No, we're not going to." Basically, they. sent us corrective action. That was.

just, you know, it was ridiculous. So, is there financial incentive? Is is are. these people that are making all this. money from fraud, are they donating to. any specific groups? Like is there a direct turn? >> The the Cubans in Florida and Florida, you know, they get mad at Trump because. they say, "Oh, all the states you're. designating are blue states." That's. just because the blue states refuse to. cooperate. But Florida is a red state.

and we're really going after them. were. shutting down all durable medical. equipment reimbursements for the whole. state because it was all being run it. was probably being run by the Cuban. government cuz this is. >> but I don't understand how no one saw it. no one from the government saw it and. would there be a reason why they weren't. looking for it other than they just. wanted it they were only thinking about. recruitments but were they al was. anybody making money outside of these.

crime organizations. >> I would say No, the money was not the. states were making money, >> right? But there was a lot of talk. online about donations to parties and. donations to NOS's and don't. >> that that is probably true too although. I don't have any evidence of that. >> No evidence. Okay. Um so it really just. >> you wouldn't have you know even if you. get those kind of donations it's not the. kind of proof that I would talk about. because you cannot prove that.

>> right. >> that that donation you know motivated. the bad behavior. >> but it just it really highlights how. ideologically captured some people are. that because it's the right-wing going. after this Medicaid fraud that somehow. or another that fraud is okay and that. fraud's not that big a deal that there's. who what I mean like what's the all told. number that's been stolen from from this. stuff over the if you had to take a wild. guess I it's at least hundred billion. dollars a year.

>> hundred billion a year. >> just from Medicaid and Medicare. >> that that anybody would not want to stop. that kind of crime because it's attached. to the wrong party is it just shows you. how weird this country is right now. >> Yeah. I mean I listen. I was a Democrat my whole life and you. know one of the thing and then I you. know. >> what are you now. >> now I'm kind of first of all I it's. illegal for me now to vote in any state. so I don't really have a party.

affiliation because you know they. challen um I was a New York state. resident but when I was running they. sued me and they said oh you don't. really live in New York you live in. California. I said, "Yeah, but my. driver's license is from New York. My. law license is from New York. I have an. address in New York. My car is. registered in New York. My falconry. license is New York. My hunting licenses. in New York. My fishing license New. York. And I intend to return to New.

York." And there were hundreds of cases. just black letter laws saying if the. only measure is if you intend to return. there at some point we got crooked. judges and they said no you're not a New. York resident. I'd already said I'm not. a California resident. I don't intend to. stay there. So now I'm not leg you know. I'm I'm not legally allowed to vote in. any state. But you know, I saw this with um the.

party. My father hated partisanship. because he thought it was dishonest. and he said you should he always had. told us you should vote for the man not. the party or the you know he said the. man because at that time it was. predominantly men. But um I saw this. when Trump um you know I grew up in a. Democratic party that was very. anti-NAFTA. it was against working people and labor. unions. Then Trump said that he was anti NAFTA.

[clears throat]. All of a sudden the Democratic Party was. pro NAFTA. And that's what turned my. head the first time. And then, you know, when I was um then I saw how they when. Trump questioned vaccines during the. 2016 election, the Democratic party was. it was kind of that [clears throat]. skepticism and the concerns were spread. evenly across the party. My uncle Ted. Kennedy was very much on the side of. medical freedom. Um and it was evenly.

spread, but as soon as Trump said that, it became part of the dogma of that. party. And then, you know, when I ran, we were um you know, it was I one of the. things I ran against was the Ukraine. war. And um and the Democrats were. always the anti-war party. But as soon. as Trump questioned that war, they. became the pro-war party and they. invited the CIA director to speak at the. Democratic convention. And it just is.

it's the the ent the party's only agenda. is we hate Trump and anything he says. we're going to do the opposite of it. And I it makes me very sad for the. party. And I don't think it's a. sustainable way to, you know, to. operate. No, there there there has to be. some sort of an appeal to people in the. middle that left when things went crazy. Just let us know you're not crazy. anymore. let us know you've abandoned a.

lot of this crazy stuff and also like. recognize what's good for everybody, right? Hundreds of billions of dollars. of fraud is not good for any of us, the. whole country. So, we should all be. together on this one thing. Like, this. is terrible. This is stealing from your. tax money, all of our tax money, >> us American citizens, we should all be. united on stopping any kind of fraud. Forget about who who's the [ __ ]. president and what what's the who's. who's going to get responsibility for. it? Who's going to take who's going to. get the accolades? Like, who cares? Stop.

fraud. Stop. We're all together. You. shouldn't have criminals from other. countries living here just stealing. money from Medicaid. That seems like. that should be a bipartisan issue in a. rational society. >> Yeah. And you know on the you know I saw. this the craziness. when we did the uh the Tylenol findings. because you know the science is really.

clear that and there were there are. dozens I read 76 studies over a week and. and when you know when we were looking. at this and the the studies that support. Tylenol safety are very weak and they. have huge holes in them. There's. overwhelming science that says you. shouldn't take it particularly, you. know, it's okay normally. You shouldn't take it during pregnancy. and particularly the last days of. pregnancy or in the parinatal period,

prenat parinatal period which is. immediately after pregnancy. you don't. want to take it because the association. with the Tylenol usage at that point and. neurodedevelopmental [clears throat]. disease is very very high and and uh and. pretty clear. And so we issued a warning. We didn't. ban Tylenol. We just sent a letter out. to all doctors saying be careful about. um we we didn't want to ban it during. pregnancy because as bad as it is, it's.

the best thing. It's better than taking. ibuprofen or or aspirin. >> Why why is aspirin there? >> They have because of rise syndrome. It has a clear association with ry. syndrome and they all have problems. >> What is that word? Ry syndrome. >> Ry r e r y r y. >> What is that? >> It's um. I'm not sure exactly what it does. >> Put that into our wonderful sponsor. perplexity. And if you put aspirin use. and rise syndrome, you'll you'll see the. >> So, is this just with pregnant women or.

with people in general? >> Pregnant in pregnancy or young children. >> Oh, well, so baby aspirin. Didn't they. always used to have children? >> Yeah. I don't know if they do it. anymore. >> Rise syndrome is a rare but serious. condition causing sudden brain swelling. and liver damage primarily in children. and teens recovering from viral. infections like flu or chickenpox become. very rare due to reduced aspirin use in. kids. Wow. Aspirin. >> Yes. >> I always thought of aspirin as like the. most natural and healthy out of all.

those things that you take for pain. >> Oh, I think it is pretty safe. But. >> it's um. >> avoid aspirin. And what's that word? You say it [laughter]. >> isn't salicyate containing. >> Cellocate containing meds in children, teens with flu, chickenpox, or cold. Use. acetamophen or ibuprofen instead. vaccinate against flu and chickenpox and. screen newborns for metabolic risks. So, it's acetaminophen is the issue in. Tylenol, right? Yeah. >> Because I read this terrible story about.

a lady who died during COVID because she. not from CO, from Tylenol. She just kept. taking Tylenol. >> Well, Tylenol shuts down your liver if. you take enough of it. >> That's what happened to her. >> But what I was saying is, you know, when. we issued this warning, it was immediately condemned by the. Democrats. Oh, you know, here's Trump. and Kennedy doing, you know, weird. science again. >> And then you had all of these videos, these viral videos on TikTok of pregnant.

women eating [clears throat] out eating. Tylenol. >> Yeah. To say [ __ ] Trump. >> It's crazy. I hope they didn't really do. it. I hope they were pretending cuz. that's so dumb. It's just so stupid. Why. would you even want to risk that? Like, how is that not a a thing that you just. abandon all party affiliation and go the. health of my child? This is science. They're not saying don't take Tylenol. Like, you could still buy Tylenol. >> It's It's a good thing to know that if. you take too much of something, it's. bad. There's a lot of things that are.

fine if you take one or two pills, but. if you're that poor lady with COVID, you. just keep taking it over and over and. over again, you'll die. We should know. that. It doesn't mean you shouldn't take. aspirin or you shouldn't take Tylenol, but it just means know when to take it. and when not to take it and know how. much to take. Like that's all. information that everybody should want. to be out there. The fact that people. want to connect that to Trump and I'm. going to take as I'm going to take. Tylenol while I'm pregnant. Like [gasps]. is this what like imagine the aliens.

watching us and going this they're not. ready. They're not ready for. sophisticated time traveling technology. These [ __ ] dopes like what are they. doing? They're fighting over nonsense, you know, and it's like it's all heavily. accelerated by social media. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, the algorithms. um just amplify that polarization. Yes. They're just telling you what you want. to hear and and validating your. worldview all the time.

>> And also just outraging you. Just. outraging you all the time. I've been. off it for a while now. It's like it. frees your brain. It's like. all the the weirdness of thinking about. nonsense in the world just kind you're. aware of it peripherilally, but it it's. not in your face all day, which I think. most people are dealing with a lot more. even than I was. And they're just. bombarded by sensation, bombarded by. anger and frustration and angst. And.

it kind of liberates. the darkest impulses of the human. spirit. I mean, I don't I don't use it. either, but I got, you know, I post. stuff, but you know, if I started. reading my comments and take them. seriously. >> No, it's terrible. I genuinely thought. when you uh joined forces with Trump and. then Tulsi did as well, I was like, "Okay, maybe this will unite us more and. make more people realize that there's a.

lot of people that are being left out. that are in the center of all this and. we can all come together and work. together." That's what I thought. naively. You know, obviously once you guys got in. there, it was you guys were MAGA and. like health is bad [laughter] and don't. don't stop the dyes. Like no matter what. it was, people like [clears throat] were. ideologically opposed to you being. correct about anything because now. you're connected with Trump. So, it's. like I was watching liberals.

the the people that are always worried. about food ingredients just dismissing. all of this talk about preservatives and. glyphosate and red dye and all these. different things and it is just an. ideological thing. >> Yeah. Um I mean it's uh it's like it's dogma. and it's part of it's tribalism. It's. these, you know, these uh these. connectors in our brain that evolved.

over millions of years living in these. little tribal communities and you know, and now you've got um. >> now you've got machines that can. activate those parts of the brain and. you know, they're being manipulated all. the time. >> Yeah. >> And then there's a bunch of people that. are commenting that aren't even real. people. There's that too. There's a lot. of manipulation that's going on on. social media where who knows who's doing. it. There's a bunch of different groups. doing it, but they they're not real. people that are outraged. They're not.

real human beings that are saying these. things and they can kind of shift a. narrative into a certain direction. sometimes. It's a fascinating time to be. alive, you know. Um, as far as uh what. you thought this job was going to be. before you get in, before you got in and. what it became, what what was your. expectations when you got in? Like, did. did anything really surprise you? Um, I [clears throat] mean, you know, I. try to go into every part of my life.

without expectations. and uh and just focus on really narrowly. on what I'm doing day by day. And that. actually makes me a lot more resilient. because if you don't have expectations, you never get disappointments and so you. can never get crushed. And um uh but I. would say that um. you know I had not spent a lot of my. life hanging out with Republicans.

and what I imagine that they were. talking about um [clears throat] is. exactly the opposite of you know now I'm. in an administration that surrounded by. immensely talented people and um and. They're immensely idealistic and you. know nobody I always imagine the. Republicans would get together and. they'd be thinking about how do we screw. the poor and how do we you know reduce. tax on the rich. >> and [clears throat]. all they're just narrowly focused on how.

do we solve these big problems and how. do we make our country work. >> and [clears throat] the level of. idealism that I see at every level in. the white house and you [clears throat]. know in my agency is uh is uh is. inspiring and then the level of of the. capabilities just the you know the. competence of the people who I'm. surrounded with the I think the thing. that shocked me most was how bad the.

agency was how. um you know just how inefficient how. nobody seemed to care that people were. getting sicker and sicker nobody was. taking accountability of the fact we're. the health agency and yet we have the. worst health of And we're the richest. health agency in the world. You know, I. I think HHS is the is the sixth biggest. country in the world. If you look at it, at its budget, it's got the biggest. budget in the federal government, bigger. than the defense budget. And yet we are.

absolutely miserable at what we did. I. mean they, you know, we're literally. presiding over this cliff. >> where every [clears throat] American is. getting we're people are just 77% of. American kids can't qualify for military. service and nobody's asking why is that. happening. We've gone when I was a kid, the um [clears throat]. the the typical pediatrician would see.

one case of of juvenile diabetes over a. 40 or 50 year career. Today, 38%. [clears throat]. of teens are diabetic or pre-diabetic. So, one out of every three kids who. walks through this office door. Why. isn't anybody noticing as the autism. rates have gone from one in 10,000 in. 1970? And people knew what autism was. They knew what it looked like in 1970. They did the biggest epidemiological.

study in history to answer the question, what is the percentage? And they came up. with 0.8 per 10,000. So less than 1 in 10,000. And today it's. 1 in 31. In California, it's one in 19. and one in 12.5 boys. >> That's crazy. >> We are, you know, >> that's so crazy. One in 12.5 boys is. crazy. >> And when my uncle was president, you. know, I was a 10-year-old boy. >> We spent zero on chronic disease. Zero.

And today we spend $4.3 trillion a year. And uh it's the fastest growing item in. the federal budget. And it's existential. We we can't. sustain it. And the Republicans and. Democrats have been arguing for years. about whether we do singlepayer, Obamacare, this or that. It's all about. throwing money. How who gets to keep the. money and we're throwing a system that's. completely broken. It's not health. system getting sicker and sicker.

>> It's like changing deck chairs on the. Titanic. Why is nobody focusing. on how do we get people healthy? because. that's how you solve the health care. cost problem. Right now, 40 cents out of every dollar that you. spend in federal taxes is going to mo to. healthcare and about 90% of that is. chronic disease. So, you know, it it's clear and. Americans don't want to be sick. You. know, they're being made sick. they're.

being the obesity rates have gone from. 5% in kids when I was a kid to now close. to 20% and in adults uh 70% of adults. are obese or overweight that was not. true when we were kids and it's not. because Americans got indolent or lazy. or hungry it's because they were being. mass poisoned. and um you know the the the vested. interests that are making money on.

keeping. Everybody makes money on. keeping us sick. The food companies make. money on getting us sick, but pharma. makes money on keeping us sick. The. insurance you would think insurance. would want to keep you well, but it. doesn't. It actually makes more money if. more people are sick. The hospitals. >> Why? How does the insurance company make. more money if people are sick? >> Well, I mean, think of it this way. If you're Lloyds of London, do you want one ship to and you're.

you're ensuring all the ships in the. ocean, do you want one ship to sink a year or. do you want a thousand to sink? If a. thousand sink, everybody's going to be. paying you premiums to ensure themselves. against that eventuality. And you're. making money on the friction. So, you're. making the money that comes into this. You're making your money on the money. that comes to the system. So the more. that you pump up that volume of money, the more you make. So you know, nobody.

is interested, nobody is economically. incentivized. to make people well. And we are not. going to get well until we align those. economic incentives with the health. outcomes that we want, which is nobody. gets sick. We end the chronic disease. epidemic. And that's what we're doing. now. We're trying to realign all those. perverse incentives that reward you. I. mean, for example, the medical system. pays out on feebased service. That means.

that the more tests the doctor orders. for you, the more drugs he prescribes. you, um the more contact he has with. you, the the richer he gets. So he is not incentive incentivized to. get you well. We ought to be paying them. a flat fee at the beginning of the year. and saying anything any cause from this. patient the rest of the year come out of. your pocket and then he's like okay how.

do I get this guy from getting sick and. he starts studying nutrition books and. you know that's actually an interesting. idea. [laughter]. It seems so captured at this point. It's. going to be difficult to unravel all. that. It it's difficult but it's not. impossible and we're doing it. >> You know, three years from now, you're. going to see a different health care. model in [snorts] our country. >> Talking about it has a big impact. because most people are just not aware. of how the whole system works and what. is actually wrong with it. You know,

most people just hear about it. Health. care, people are sick, they need health. care. Why would they cut healthare? Cutting healthcare is bad. That's what. they would just immediately think. And I. think most people they they think of the. fraud stuff and they want to dismiss it. Like they I've heard all these people. dismiss this Nick Shirley kid and what. he exposed in in Minneapolis. But the. the reason why is because it's the wrong. party. If this was a Democrat that was. exposing Republican fraud, then they. would be all into it. They would be it. would be on every newspaper. But.

instead, they're trying to dismiss it as. not, you know, not relevant. >> Yeah. And it to me it's weird because I. know Democrats are human beings and they. care about the same things that I do. I've known all of these guys, almost all. of them for many of them for 40 years. Bernie Sanders I've known for 40 years. >> Their only solution is more money to the. system. A system that is broken, that is. making us sicker and sicker. And what. President Trump wants to do is he wants.

to fix the system. Stop. Most of that. money is not going to the patient. It's. going to the insurance companies and the. PBMs and all of these middlemen that. are, you know, are milking the system. And that's why [clears throat] President. Trump says, you know, the answer is to. not pay the insurance company. It's to. pay the the the consumer directly and. put him make him the CEO of his own. healthcare so that he can spend money. he's now incentivized to do prevention.

and to maybe do holistic medicine or. take vitamins or, you know, take vitamin. D, which, you know, is, as you know, is. kind of miraculous. Um, [clears throat]. or to um or to do alternatives, you. know, to do preventative care. And [clears throat]. he wants to say he's going to want to. save money right now. you nobody nobody. is in that position of accountability. We we need to make them the CEO of their.

own health so that they have. responsibility and they're going to pay. the cause if they get sick. Government. pays. but they then decide to allocate that. how to allocate that money and then we. need to make the system transparent and. that's you know one of the things that. we're doing. where during his first. term, Trump passed a transparency bill, but because Trump had passed, everybody. wanted transparency. If you if you're a woman, you're.

pregnant, you want to know how much it's going to. cost you to to have that baby. There's. no way you can find that out for most of. them. You can go nine months on a phone. every day, how much it's going to cost, and you'll never get a straight answer. And so, you know, in New York, uh, for. example, what we're doing now is we're. going to make all of the hospitals and. all the providers post a menu of their. prices. so that are available to everybody and.

that are available on a website that. we're creating. So, if you want an MRI. and you there's 40 places around your. home that offer MRIs, you can't right. now figure out what they cost. Now, you're going to be able to go and look. at them all in a single page and figure. out what the cheapest one is. If you go. to a restaurant, the price are on the. menu. If you go to buy a car and the guy. said to you, "Yeah, you can buy the car, but I'm not going to tell you how much. it costs till after you bought it.".

Nobody would operate that way, but. that's how our medical system operates. So, I looked at we have a mockup of the. of this website. We're right now during. the Biden administration because Trump. had passed that law, the Biden. administration just refused to enforce. it. So we're in the same position now. where there's no transparency. We're changing that now. We sent out. we've sent out over a thousand letters. to hospitals, you know, warning letters. These you got to post them right now.

And we're going to and we just u. finalized. new regulations. If they don't do that, they're going to pay a huge fine. So, I. saw the mockup of the um of the website. and I said I asked the question. um how much does it cost in the. hospitals within a mile of Manhattan. of a baby? One of them was there were. about 30 hospitals that you I could. visualize on one page. One of them was.

$1,300. That was the lowest. The highest. was 22,000. In Detroit, it is the cheapest place to have a baby. is about uh $5,000. and the most expensive is 60,000. And. it's the same service, the same quality. care. Nothing changes except that price. Why do we have that information chaos? We have it because the industry wants to.

hide what it's doing. And so there's no. market, there's no ability for people to. make good choices. And when you know the. um I met I was staying with Dr. Oz. during the transition at his house in. Florida. And one day uh Prime Minister. Rudd who was the former prime minister. of Australia came by and he had after he. was prime minister he had been appointed. to run a commission to reduce healthcare. costs and improve quality and they were.

very successful but he said the number. one thing that they did at change. everything was price transparency was. showing people the price of what they're. going to pay. So, we're now going to do. that and um and people will be able to. shop and you know now we also have to we. also have to shift all of those that. money away from the insurance companies. and put it in the hands of you know of.

the public so that they have are. incentivized maximum incentivized to. make good choices. >> So, as far as making good choices with. like food, I I like what you guys did. I. love what you guys did with the food. pyramid. Essentially flipped it on its. head, which is kind of crazy that for. the longest time we were being told that. the most important things, the primary. diet should be grains and rice and wheat. and and now it's things that we've known. for a long time. It's whole food, actual. real food. That's what you're supposed.

to be eating. The the problem is getting. people to change their habits and change. their ways. And if people don't start. eating good food and if people don't. start taking care of their body, how. what other things can you even imagine. would shift this trend? >> Well, here's what's going to happen. First of all, the food pyramid. I. inherited a food pyramid from the the. first week I was I came into office one. year and two weeks ago.

A week after I got in, I was handed the. food pyramid that the Biden. administration had. It wasn't even the. food pyramid. They gotten rid of that. They just were doing the dietary. guidelines. So, it was the. recommendations that would go be. reflected in the food pyramid. [gasps]. It was hundreds of pages long and it was. incomprehensible. and it was driven by all the merkantile. impulses that had corrupted the food. pyramid for 50 years. And it was it was. written by lobbyists. It was written by.

the food industry lobbyists in the same. impulse that put Froot Loops at the top. of the food pyramid which isn't even a. food. >> Froot Loops were at the top of the. >> were at the top recommendation of the. food pyramid. You can ask them to look. up the old food pyramid. >> I need to see where Froot Loops stand. Don't they throw some vitamins on Froot. Loops? Is it like vitamin rich? >> Oh yeah. As if that's good for you. It's. good [laughter] for you. >> They add vitamins. Do they even addit. the cyanide and you know it wasn't going.

to make it any better for you? >> No. No, I'm joking obviously. >> But um. >> but um. >> it was a ridiculous. So. >> the law so how did. >> so then what we did is we got the best. nutritionists in the country. You know. we got Mark Heyman and we got the. nutritionists from the best universities. in the country and we put them all in a. room and I thought it was going to take. a month. It took 11 months because they. fought over every recommendation and. everything is cited in source so that we. know we have good science. But you know. some of the stuff was ra because of.

regulatory malpractice all these years. Some of the studies simply haven't been. done. So there are knowledge gaps which. we should not have. So um so now we have. a food pyramid where and because of the. old food pyramid people didn't like the. food on it and they were going to. ultrarocessed food which was okay on the. food pyramid. So now 70% of the food. that our kids eat is ultrarocessed food. 70% of the calories they got and it's.

just poisoning them. And they took off. the good stuff like a whole milk which. is nutrientdense which is feeding their. brain. We have two generations of kids. that grew up without milk, without the. proper nutrients for their brain. We. have the first country in the face of. the earth that has chronic obesity and. in the same people malnutrition. So you. have [laughter] immensely obese people. and they're malnourished. They're. medically malnourished. It's because the.

food pyramid was so messed up. So, so what's going to happen now, Joe, is. that we are going to be able to drive. that. We're going to be able to change. dietary culture. Just the food pyramid. is going to change dietary culture. And. here's how. um Brooke Rollins, who's an. incredible USDA secretary, she um had she administers $45 million a. day that she gives out to food subsidies. or school lunches, the Wix program, the.

SNAP program, uh Indian Health Services, and all of these other programs. And and so those programs now are going. to get good food because the dietary. guidelines dictate what they can and. cannot feed kids. Military and the VA also are changing. Now I, you know, this week I met with a. guy, Chef Robert Irvine, who is a. television chef. He's been hired by Pete.

Hess to come in and change all the. military meals. military and he's on. already on f five bases. By the end of. this month, he'll be on 20. [clears throat] What he's done is the. food that we give our military is so. bad, they won't eat it. So, they're. going out and they're spending their. money on um fast food. And fast food is. not cheap. A Big Mac meal cost 12 to$14. It's not a cheap meal. You can get a.

really good food for that price. You. could feed yourself the whole day for. that price. with good food. Mark Heyman's new book. has a diet, $10 a day diet, three meals, great food. Anyway, Robert Irvine has. gone into these places and he gives them. all fresh food, almost all all of it. locally sourced. As it turns out, it's. cheaper. The military is spending $18 a. day for three meals for each soldier.

He's spending $10 a day and giving them. real food, good food. and the lines now. are allowed around the block and. nobody's going to fast food. Everybody's. fighting to get in. And what he says is. it doesn't cost more. We don't need any. more money. We just need to buy smarter. and to be smarter about how we do it. And you know, um we're going to be able. to do that. One of the things that we're. doing with the dietary guidelines is the. SNAP program. SNAP, we have 20 states.

now that have applied for SNAP waiverss. and have been granted. So they you can. no longer get candy on SNAP. You can no. longer get. >> [clears throat]. >> um soda. That was 18% of SNAP purchases. So we were taking the 63 million poorest. kids in our country, giving them. taxpayer funded diabetes. And then 78%. of them end up on Medicaid. Many of them being treated for diabetes. So we're paying to give them the disease. and then we're paying to treat it for. the rest of their lives. And we're.

changing that. And one of the things. that Brooke is doing is she's going to. require that any retailer that accepts. food stamps has to double the amount of. real food in their establishment. We're working with farmers. We're. working with entrepreneurs to make sure. every American get high quality food. that is affordable. >> I don't know how [clears throat] anybody. would be opposed to that. That all. sounds fantastic. >> It's weird that they are. >> How How could you? The way you just laid. it out, how could anybody be opposed to.

that? That all sounds great. >> I mean, what the for the soldiers that. the the fact that they were getting. terrible food that they didn't want to. eat is just that's. >> that's really offensive. You know, you. think about what you're asking of them. and then you're giving them garbage that. they don't even want to eat. Like what. do they how do they feel that you care. about them? >> Well, and you know, one of the things. that. >> um uh Robert Irvine, the chef, told me, he said, you know, it cost $9 to get a. frozen salmon. It cost $6 to get a fresh. salmon. So you know food food good food.

is actually if you cook yourself at home. the good food is much much less. expensive. The problem is Americans have. forgotten how to cook and so and cooking. is really important because it's not a. it's important for family cohesion for a. sense of community. It's a daily almost. sacred ritual and and you know taking. that away from our lives has has.

amplified the spiritual meal that we're. in. And one of the things we're going to. do is to start sending federal workers. out to teach people how to cook. They. don't have the implements. They don't. have the cutting boards. They don't. have, you know, they don't know how to. buy groceries, >> right? >> And you know, you can go into any any. big grocery store in this country. If. you go and buy a steak, it's still. pretty expensive. But if you buy the cheaper cuts, it's. great meat and it is very very.

affordable or liver or you know all. these alternatives. >> Chuck Rose, >> now you said, you know, how can you be. against that? >> Well, I I told you 20 states have. applied for the SNAP program and we've. granted them SNAP waiverss. Why would. you want taxpayer? If you want to drink. a Coke, you ought to be able to. We live. in the United States. We're not going to. take anything away from anybody. But the taxpayer shouldn't be paying for. it. Particularly when we're paying for. it on the other end in diabetes.

So this just makes sense to anybody. But. 20 states have applied. Only two of them. are blue states. Why? The the Bernie. Sanders has been fighting for this for. years, but Vermont won't apply for one. And it's all partisanship. and they're. putting their hatred. of Donald Trump ahead of their love for. their own children. And until we learn. to stop doing that, this, you know, the. healthcare in this country is not going.

to improve, at least in those states. So. what strategies, if any, could you ever. imagine that could be implemented that. would kind of unite people on these. things and get them to stop being so. partisan about. one of the most important aspects of. being a human being is staying healthy. It's it's a, you know, it's like love. and health. They're all those are the. the the top ones that we all want. That. it just seems insane that we would. choose this as a battleground. And it it.

seems insane that it's connected to one. party or another. It shouldn't be. It's. a it should just we should all be united. on at least this. And I think if people. were a little healthier and they were a. little more fit, they'd probably have a. lot less anxiety, probably a lot less. conflict when it comes to political. disagreements. Things could probably be. worked out more amicably, especially. among friends. It's like having good. health improves virtually every aspect. of your life.

>> Yeah. I mean I would say. >> for everybody. >> I would say two things. The food ties. directly into your mental health. Yes. And we now know this is so well. documented that there's a gut brain. connection and that you know depression, ADHD. Chris Palmer up at Harvard. is dramatically reducing the symptoms of. schizophrenia simply by changing. people's diets. He's using a keto diet. >> Um there are. >> dramatically like what what kind of.

percent. >> they're losing 30% of their symptoms. >> really. uh um. >> just from ketones. >> from keto. >> What about have they done anything with. >> the same thing is true? I mean you know. there there are now there's a big paper. about to come out on losing a bipolar. diagnosis. kids who lose bipolar diagnosis simply. by changing their diet. We know that. ADHD is driven by all these food dies. and stuff and that's very well. documented. There's all of these um you go on the.

internet and um you look for. uh uh studies that show what happens. when you change the food in prisons and. juvenile detention facilities. and they you know the the they'll put it. in one wing of the prison. They'll put. good food and then they'll put the. standard food in the in the other and. the level of violence goes down by 40 45. 50%. the use of restraints in juvenile. detention facilities goes down 75%.

The the number of incidents dramatically. drops and so it's a public safety issue. in the prisons and you know I've been. meeting now with all the prisons they. prisons have a real problem because. they're allocated the state prisons are. allocated to 60 cents a day to feed the. prisoners and it's [clears throat] and. they're it's all. >> for them it's all about shelf life. So. they're just feeding them the worst kind. of poison that you could possibly It's.

all just chemicals. >> Oh my god. >> But you know um. >> well we've kind of given up on the idea. of rehabilitation. It's just all about. punishment. And then. >> but this is also public safety. It's. guard safe everything else. And the. other thing in the answer to your first. question about how do you sort of you. know mitigate the polarization I I would. say the only way that you do that is by. getting people to start talking to each. other. >> Yeah. >> Because that you got to be able to find.

common ground with other people and if. you don't talk to them you don't see. their humanity. >> Right. And you know that's one of the. things that you do that is so great. which is you bring a lot of people on. here who you disagree with and you have. a civil conversation about them and you. you show your curiosity about them and. you you know you you get to hear their. rationale and a lot of times I'll listen. to somebody on this show I I'll say I. don't like this guy and then I'll listen. to his rationale and I'll think oh.

actually he's making a lot of sense and. [clears throat] we have to uh hating. people because of the label on them. >> Yeah. >> And start, [snorts] you know, listening. And it's really important we do that now. because these algorithms are designed to. drive us all apart. Yeah. >> And you know, we've always had political. polarization in this country. I mean, I. grew up during the 60s and, you know, there were bombs going off and people. being shot and, you know, all it was.

very, very violent and vitriolic when my. dad was running and the polarization. probably was the worst since the. American Civil War. Um, but um. [clears throat] but today when it is. amplified by the algorithms, it's hard. to see where it's going to end up in a. good place unless we start learning to. talk to each other. It's not just the. algorithm. It's just the It's also the. method of communication. When you're. you're only talking to people through. like angry tweets back and forth with.

each other. You were saying like sit. down and talk to people. That's no one's. doing that anymore. Very few people. There's a few FaceTime conversations. going on. You see your friends if you go. out with them. People are not talking. that much anymore and they're not. sitting down and talking. And when you. do, everyone's distracted. Everyone has. their phones out. Everyone's checking. text messages. I I'll tell you one of. the most important things that we're. doing right now as part of the MA. legislation from my agency. We're going. state by state and we're asking them to.

do bell-to-bell legislation so that um. and 26 states have now already done it. So more than half the states so that. kids can't use cell phones in schools. I. went to a school in Lowden County the. other day and the states love them. Um I. went to Lowden County and you know they. had the students had fought and fought. against this this uh [laughter] against. getting their cell phone. So they the. way they do it all of the schools school.

districts and states do it differently. But in that state. they can bring their cell phone to. school but they have to leave it in. their backpack and and if the parent. calls and needs to talk to them they can. do it. Uh, but I walked into the. cafeteria, 600 kids in that cafeteria. and they're all talking to each other. They're sitting across the table. Nobody's looking at their laps. >> The parents, the parents came, you know, that day. I pulled the students and I. said, "How many do you think this is a.

good idea?" And they all put their hands. up and they said, "We all hated it for. the first two weeks and now we love it.". >> The um the parents said, "Uh, it's the. best thing that ever happened. my kid is. not driving with their cell phone in the. car anymore because they know they can. live without it or eating dinner with. the family [clears throat] and we're. actually having conversations. and then the the teachers in the schools. love it because the disciplinary. problems go down and the the test scores. go through the roof, you know, because. they're focusing of course.

>> on work. So, it's just like a. no-brainer. But again, it's that the. blue states that, you know, are the. hardest to convince to do it because. they see it as as uh, you know, as a a. Trump part of the, you know, the. demonization of, you know, Trump being. the tyrant or whatever. >> It's just so stupid to to not recognize. the kids are distracted. Like, what why. it's just one of those things like why. does that have to be a right or a left. issue? It's stupid. This is a United.

States issue. The best way to have a. group of people that succeed in this. world is make it as clear a path for. them as possible. And as soon as you. allow them to use their phone all day, it's too addictive. >> No one can put them down. You're going. to lose 30% of your concentration or. more easily, I would imagine. >> The the fact that that would be a. partisan thing is just nuts. It just. shows how goofy we are. I don't I don't. know how you get people to talk, though.

I mean, other than. I mean, I do it on a podcast, but that's my job. I don't know how many conversations I'd. be having with people who I was. politically opposed to or ideologically. opposed to or just didn't see eye to eye. with them and wanted to know how they. think. I I don't know how many. opportunities I would ever even get to. do that. >> What you're doing is so important. And. now you know there's a thousand people. imitating you many really good podcasts. but.

um it's teaching people to have. conversations. I mean you are the best. >> teacher mentor on that and people admire. you so they oh and my I have seven kids. and they grew up with with devices and. stuff and I would look you know I slap. them out of their hand and I I and also. they couldn't concentrate on long you. know long points long conversations. they're like get to the point you know. like I only got five seconds you got to.

make your point [sighs]. >> and then I see um sitting for three and. a half hours and listening to a Rogan. podcast. That was a cultural phenomena. That was a cultural change. This. generation of kids I have so much hope. for because they grew up with that and. you know they want it. So I do have a. lot of a hope that we're going to be. able to do this. And then you know I. think Charlie Kirk did that too was an. example to a lot of those kids because. whether you agree with him or not and he.

had very strong opinions that people you. know considered terrible but the one. thing that he really did is he talked to. people he didn't agree with and he. always gave them the microphone and. allowed them to amplify their voice. And. then he had a civility and he talked to. them and he used logic a lot of times. destructively. but not in an angry way. >> And so I think you know he was teaching. people uh to how to have conversations.

again. You're teaching people how to. have conversations again. And it's, you. know, I think that's. uh, you know, one of the big hopes that. I have for the future that people learn. to talk to each other with whom they. with with people who with whom they. disagree. >> It would be nice. But there's also a a. real genuine problem today in the. marketplace of outrage that a a lot of. people um a lot of their podcasts are. just focused almost entirely on on.

outrage and of uh like having arguments. and screaming matches with people, you. know, putting people down and not having. civil discourse but trying to win, trying to dominate someone in an. argument, you know, trying to squash. people and I guess in a sense some of. that is really good because it exposes. bad ideas but it just encourages that. kind of discourse where if someone's. ideologically opposed to you they are. the enemy and you want to destroy them. and I'm I'm like okay they're just a.

human being like find out why they got. to where they are that is a different. perspective than you have and why you. got to where you are and try to figure. out if there's some middle ground in. there like what what do you believe like. why do you believe that and find out why. and and ask them and don't don't cut. them off. Let them talk. Let them. express themselves. Help them if you. can. Try to figure out what makes. someone actually think instead of just. thinking that your ideas are a part of. you. They're just ideas. Like they're.

not you. Like some ideas you can hold in. your mind and they're bad for you. They're bad. You haven't examined them. You're acting on them like they're. doctrine and then you're stuck with that. idea because you've already espoused it. so many times. s you don't want to be a. flip-flopper and so people get mad and. you you get this weird cycle of shitty. communication and nobody ever breaks out. of it and nothing ever gets done and. there's no common ground is ever. achieved and the only way you're going. to ever break that is to stop talking to. people like that. You got to just talk.

to them. Just instead of talk to them. like they're the enemy, just talk to. them like they're a fellow human being. about some ideas and just treat them. with respect. Talk to them like a person. that you know in any other circumstance. maybe even could be your friend. Just. talk to them. People can do that. It's. possible. It just takes discipline. You. have to learn how to do it. Took me a. while. Took me a long time to learn how. to talk to people better, but it can be. done. And. >> yeah, but it's technique. But as.

prevalent as you know that kind of. vitriol is on in the podcast world. >> right. >> it's it is incomparable to what's. happening on television because there. are no conversations on television. >> right that's more of what I was getting. at honestly is there's some shows that. do that but like some of these CNN shows. it's just these crazy ideological. battles and yeah also guys pro tip you. can't have [ __ ] six people at a table. all yelling out for seven minutes, you.

don't have enough time to get a real. point across and it becomes a battle of. like who's got the best prepared sound. bites or who's got the best uh snarky. quip. It's stupid. It's a stupid way to. talk about things, you know? >> I mean, Cheryl went on uh. >> the view. >> Yeah, the view. And [laughter] it was. and it was that it wasn't like uh um. like you say, you know, like let's have. a congenial conversation with people and. >> you know, allow them to to express.

themselves and to be fun and funny and. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Well, just have a conversation. with someone. if you disagree with them. about certain things like they disagree. with her. It would have been far more. productive to have a one-on-one. conversation instead of this gaggle of. hands squawking all at her. It's just. like you you see it over and over again. when they oppose somebody. It's like. they're all chiming in and it's just not. the way you could ever like thoroughly. cover a subject and they're limited by. their format. That format is very.

limiting. It's a shitty format where you. you you go to a commercial at. predetermined times, period. No matter. what. Like maybe you got a little leeway. here or there, but you've got to get. that commercial in. And that's crazy. because if you're in the middle of. talking, a lot of points take a long. time to flesh out. Like just think about. all the stuff you just explained about. Medicaid. Imagine if you try to do that. and. >> you can you can't you can't do it. And. it would they would try to stop you. You're too in the weeds. No one's going. to pay attention to this. It's like I.

don't think that's true. And I think. we've learned that because of podcast. because there was no production. There. was no executives. There was no one. there. People were just putting on a. webcam and talking. And so we realized. like, well, people actually do like. conversations still. They just don't get. a lot of them, not real ones. You know, you get interviews where someone has. like a sheet of questions. You know, you. get where someone is uh, you know, playing a role. you're playing a role of. a a person who interviews people. You. don't really give a [ __ ] about what this.

person has to say. But people do want. connection. They still do. And the fact. that we don't get it from social media, but most of our time is in social media. is just accelerating this detachment we. have from each other. And that's what. people have to get past. I don't know. how to do it to tell everybody start. their own podcast. >> That you know, you and I were talking. before we came in here about Larry King. >> Yes. >> He did that. There were a lot of people. in the 70s and 80s um David Suskind and.

you know all of these other people who. were who were actually having. conversations. >> Yeah, Larry King was great. >> Cavitt [clears throat]. >> I love when he asked Jay Khaled how. how'd you gain all the weight? I was. like [laughter]. what did he say? >> He said I ate too much. What do you want. me to say? That's such a crazy question. How did you gain all the weight? Like. what Larry? What are you talking about? That's crazy. That's a wild question to. ask someone. But, you know, he would. just have a conversation with you, you. know, and I think uh people have a. hunger for that. And uh a lot of this uh.

infighting comes from no face to face. communication. I think when people get a. chance, especially if it's not. performative, that's part of the problem. like the Charlie Kirk stuff or some of. the other things that people do in front. of a crowd, things become very. performative when there's a bunch of. people watching and cheering and and. then you know how the audience feels and. you play to them a little bit like h. that's probably not the best way to talk. about stuff. And I think human beings. naturally understand one-on-one. conversations. We've had them for all of.

human history. So when you get a a. chance to hear people talk one-on-one. for hours at a time, it expands your. understanding of the world. Like I now I. know how you feel about things. I I know. at least for this brief three-hour. conversation, I get a more of a sense of. how you approach things. And then people. put that into their own mind and go, "Maybe I should approach things a little. bit differently. Maybe I should think. about things a little bit differently.". And we miss that. You know, we're. missing that. And social media robs you.

of that. It gives you the exact opposite. of that. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, you know what Charlie Kirk was. doing? You're right. You know, it was. it was less of a conversation and more. of a uh sometimes it was like in in the. ring. You know, it was like being in. the, you know, the ring. But it's a lot. better than what's happening elsewhere, which is just blanket censorship of. people and not any willingness to just. shutting people down and cancelling.

them. >> Yeah. 100%. Well, that. >> that's another weird thing that that's a. Democratic party impulse because. >> it was the opposite of the Democratic. party I grew up with, you know, which. was unafraid of any debate. My uncle, my. father said, "We should be able to. debate. We should be able to win these. debates in the marketplace of ideas. If. we can't, then we need to examine. ourselves. >> It was a core tenant of the Democratic. party. >> Yeah. And you know, the unfortunate. shift in that, it's just like, you know,

I remember during the Bush. administration when the FCC was going. after Howard Stern, it was it was this. huge thing. They were trying to close. down Howard Stern because Howard Stern. was very critical of Bush. >> and it was like he was the guy out there. fighting for free speech and they were. getting fined like enormous fines. enormous fines for things that he had. said you know they deemed to be obscene. >> you know and um that was a right-wing. thing and we always thought of it as a. right-wing thing and when you uh see.

what's happening today just like any the. the wanting silence of your political. opponents is the dumbest way to cut off. your own hand. It's so dumb because if. you can't see that this could be used. against you if someone else gets into a. position of power. If all of a sudden. some enormous right-wing corporation. buys these social media platforms and. only pushes right-wing agendas and. silences all left-wing agendas. Like, do. you know how [ __ ] crazy that is to.

just give that kind of power willingly. to an anonymous group of people that you. supposedly align to cuz you're in the. same tribe? It's the dumbest thing ever. And the fact that people on the left. weren't outraged when they read the. Twitter files and found out how much. involvement there was in silencing real. information and removing people who from. the White House ordered me to be removed. from Instagram. I lost a million. followers. insane. >> 37 hours after he got after he took the.

oath of office. swearing to uphold the Constitution, they were ordering Mark Zuckerberg to. take me down. And then you look at. what's happening in England now, you. know, with people going to jail for. Twitter posts. >> 12,000 people this year. >> Yeah. >> 12,000 in the last year. And then this. where the Magna Carta was, you know, written and now [clears throat] there's. now it's just a it's just a. dictatorship. Well, they got rid of. trial by jury except for murder and rape.

and a couple other things. Now it's just. a judge. So, you know, whatever it is, if it's a social media infraction, if. it's there's no reasonable, you know, judge by a jury of your peers. No, you're you're you're getting judged by a. judge. >> It's the Soviet system. It's like Kafka. I just can't believe how quick it. happened when you know when you look at. the social media arrests they were they. were always disturbing like uh if you go. back even four or five years they had. quite a few of them a year but it really.

ramped up really ramped up over the last. year or so and it's just insane to watch. and a lot of it is criticism of. immigration like legitimate criticism of. immigration and legitimate critic uh. criticism of crimes that have been. committed and people outraged which is. completely normal, but instead of like. doing anything about that, they want to. arrest people from complaining. And it's. just really weird to watch. Yeah. And it's going to get worse with the AI.

Um, it's scary. Well, it's just strange that. they couldn't do anything to stop that. from happening and that anybody with. anybody that's reasonable would be. willing to let that happen because their. side is imposing it. That that seems. like an existential threat to all. critical thinking, all communication and. debate. All as soon as you start.

arresting people for opinions, that's. crazy. You now you're getting nuts. Like. anything that you deem might incite. violence or like outrage, people are. outraged. They have a right to be. outraged. If you can put them in a cage. because they're outraged, that's nuts. That's really nut. Now they have a pub. law. Do you know this one? >> No. >> Oh, find that Jamie. They're trying to. pass this thing. I don't know if they. passed it. Where uh someone's I don't.

want to speak out of turn. I don't want. to [ __ ] this up because it was. disturbing enough without me uh. misinterpreting it, but the idea was to. stop people from saying things on social. media that you get arrest for. Stop them. from saying those kind of things in. pubs. And. >> where is this in England? >> Yes. See if you can find it. I know I. saved it, but it'll take me too long to. pull it up. >> Did you find anything like that? I'm. >> trying to make sure it's.

>> legit. Yeah. >> I mean, I wouldn't imagine it's not I. mean, it's not outside the realm of what. they're poss they they're capable of. doing if they're arresting 12,000 people. a year for social media posts. I mean, if that was happening in America and. they were only arresting Republicans, I. don't think you'd hear a peep out of the. Democrats. I think they think it's. important. We have to stop. misinformation. >> Yeah. >> It passed. >> No, I don't think it passed. You don't. think it passed? Find out if it passed. or not.

Okay. So, what is the act? What were. they. >> legislation aimed blah blah blah, but it. says you're still free to converse. Know. the law. I don't know. >> What was the what were they trying to. Okay point free speech in UK pubs. Employer responsibilities requires. employers to take reasonable steps to. prevent staff from experiencing. harassment by third parties such as. customers. Well, that's normal, right? You don't want to be harassed by a cop. Concerns have been raised that debates.

on, for instance, gender, identity, or. political matters could lead to staff. complaints resulting in patrons being. asked to leave if the behavior is deemed. aggressive or harassing. It should not be misinterpreted as a ban. on lawful, polite, or controversial. speech. Who's to decide what's. controversial, though? um third-party. harassment legislation focuses on. addressing harassment rather than. banning specific topics of conversation. entirely. Just any regulation of.

conversation is nuts. If it's one thing. you're harassing the staff owner, I've. never known a pub owner who would allow. people to come in and harass his staff. He already has an economic and. management incentive to not allow that. You know, it's not the kind of thing you. need to legislate. But to say that. someone doesn't feel safe if people are. having a civil conversation about gender. identity, you don't feel safe if you. work there and that you're getting. harassed by people's opinions that you. don't agree with. Well, that's where.

things get weird because then you, as. we've seen, there's a lot of people that. get they get really triggered about a. lot of things that are pretty normal for. most folks. You know, microaggressions, dumb [ __ ] There's a lot of people that. just want to be offended. And if this is. a law, that could lead to a lot more problem. It's just a slippery slope and they're. not going in the right direction. And I. don't know how they course correct if. they've fallen this far that quickly. 12,000 arrests is crazy. That's a crazy.

amount of people go to jail for social. media posts. >> Yeah. >> And it encourages self-censorship so you. don't get a real sense of what people. want or don't want because people don't. want to be involved. They don't want to. go to jail. They don't want to get take. a chance. the the framers of the constitution put. free speech was everything to them and. they put it in the first amendment. because they knew all the other. um rights and guarantees were dependent. on it. If you have a if you have a.

government that can silence its. opponents. It has a license for any any. kind of atrocity. >> It's just shocking that all other. Western nations haven't adopted that. Well, most of them don't have. constitutions. So crazy. It's just so ridiculous. It's. so ridiculous that free speech, which is. like we all agree, especially in. America, it's one of the most important. things. The only way to find out what's. real and what's not.

Got to let people talk it out. You know, I mean, when you're living in a world. where the government has the power to. dictate what's real and what's not real, and they don't have an obligation to be. correct, you got a real problem. And if. there's no consequences for them being. incorrect, and they've silenced correct. speech, they've gotten away with. something that's real slippery and real. dangerous. And when there's a lot of. money involved and a lot of businesses. involved, >> I've typed it into perplexity and it. this gives [clears throat] a little. context on it because the pubs were.

being. >> the same the pub thing reverses a 2013. removal of third party harassment. liability making pubs liable if staffs. overhear comments deemed harassing based. on protected characteristics like sex or. race. Critics call it a banter ban, fearing landlords landlords will police. conversations to avoid lawsuits, chilling speech in social venues. >> That makes it sound like if someone was. doing that, the the business would be. was getting in trouble versus the person.

who was saying it, >> right? So, uh, they removed a third. party harassment liability. So, they. removed the pub owner being in trouble. >> They removed that. because it says it passed. When I was. looking it up, it said it passed a. couple months ago. December. >> So that makes pub owners liable again. >> Uh, >> so removed 2013 removal of third party. harassment liability. >> Made them liable. I don't think I think. it's back to reverses that reverses.

making them liable. >> No, no, no, no. It reverses the removal. of the third party harassment liability. So they removed the liability now making. pubs liable. So it now makes them liable. if they overhear comments. So what this. does is it encourages the pub itself to. censor people, which makes sense. I. mean, if you all of a sudden can now sue. a pub that you went into and you didn't. like this conversation about gender. identity that was taking place next to. you, you have the basis of a lawsuit.

now. >> Yeah. So now the incentive is. the pub owner to go out and police all. the conversations so that if anybody if. anybody crosses the guard rail, you. know, the pub owner now has to go in and. interrupt them, which is not a good. thing. >> If you weren't a charitable person, you. could imagine that there are certain. groups that would have people go to. places, have conversations, and set up a. lawsuit. >> Yeah. You could just you could commit. fraud if the pub is liable until you pay.

some cook to go in there and start. yelling about transsexuals and then next. thing you know you collect the lawsuit. Like that's not outside of what I think. a shady person would do. If you think. about what you've just talking about. with all the Medicare fraud and all the. other fraud that we know has happened in. the world, like this is this is a giant. loophole. This is a giant loophole for. people to come in and sue people and. silence everybody's speech. And the fact. that this is uh not being recognized is. it's very disturbing that people don't.

understand human behavior. It's very. weird. They're willing to accept this. kind of stuff. when you um look at the challenges of. getting things done, what has been the. most frustrating in terms of what you. wanted to get done and what you were. actually able to get done or in the. process of getting done? I mean, I've. been surprised by how much President. Trump has supported me on this stuff.

because I, you know, I'm going after the. the biggest, [clears throat]. you know, big pharma, >> big insurance, um the big food, >> big food, >> and um and these have all been, you. know, those were all taboos for every. administration, Democratic, Republican. There was little incremental things that. you could do under democratic. administrations, but nothing like this. ever happened. You know, I mean, the the. the agreement we made with the.

pharmaceutical industry could not have. happened any under any other president, the MFN agreement, the most favorite. nation. And the way that that worked is, you know, we've been paying for the last. 40 years the highest price in the world. for medicine. And so um we we have 4.2% of the world's. population here and uh over 70% of. pharmaceutical profits and revenues come. from the United States. Why is that? We. do buy more drugs than anybody.

but it's because we pay higher prices. We pay two to three to five times what. they're paying in Europe. Or for. example, and President Trump likes to. talk about this. OMIC the list price was $1350. in America. You could buy the same drug in any. pharmacy in London for $88. And it's made in the same factory in New. Jersey. And [clears throat].

the reason that was allowed to happen is. the Europeans just said, "We're not. going to allow we're not going to pay. anymore for it." They would set the. price and that was the maximum. There's. a lot of drugs they don't have. There's. a lot of cancer drugs they don't have in. Europe because they just wouldn't pay. the price. And um and so uh President. Trump, you know, every president has. vowed to stop this. Clinton tried. [clears throat] to stop it. Uh Obama, Bush, uh all of them tried and Biden all said,

"We're going to get rid of the MFN. price." And none of them did anything on. it. And President Trump literally called. me sometimes once a day. He called late. at night, 11:30 at night and you know. [clears throat] say, "Where are you on. MFN?" And we ended up getting the it. seemed to me even it seemed. insurmountable. But he he said, "I'm going to use. tariffs. I'm going to force the. Europeans to raise their drug prices.".

And because he didn't want to he didn't. we had enough leverage on the. pharmaceutical companies because of our. Medicaid Medicare programs. that we could pretty much force them to. lower their prices and he but it would. put them out of business. So and he. didn't mind he wants us to continue to. be the center for innovation in this. country and he also wanted the companies. reshore all the all their production so. that we're making all the drugs here and. they're not making it elsewhere in the.

world. And so we sat down with them for months. and uh we came to agreements with 16 of. the 17 pharmaceutical companies. Now Americans are getting the lowest. prices in the world. If somebody lowers. the price in Europe, we get that price. or lower. And people can get that today. on Trump RX. They can go for, you know, the most popular medications and get the. cheapest price in the world. And not. only that, but the pharmaceutical. industry because we gave them certainty. and because President Trump forced the.

European countries to raise the price. that their citizens pay for drugs, we the the companies actually did well. They they increased stock values by 1.3. trillion among them and they've all. agreed to onshore their production. So. Lily is building six plants here, new. plants, including one of the biggest API. facilities in the world as the API or. the um the the pharmaceutical. ingredients that you know we ran out of.

during COVID. We need to be making them. here because otherwise other countries. can blackmail us. Fizer, Merc, they're. all building um big facilities here and. drug production is now going to come to. the United States. We're going to be the. center of the world in terms of drug. production. So, and those negotiations were very, very tough and they were extraordinarily. complex. We were, you know, we have a really good. suite of of um talented individuals,

highc caliber individuals who've left. billion-dollar businesses. One of them. is a guy called Chris Clump, who's. immensely talented. He walked away from a a company that. does data management for 85% of the. hospitals in this country and he's you. know he walked away from billion dollar. company divested lost a lot of money to. come just because he wants to improve. things. He ran the negotiations and the uh the. pharmaceutical companies fell in love.

with him because they realized they. could trust him. And we worked out this. extraordinary agreement where now. Americans have gone from paying the most. in the world for drugs to the least in. the developed world for drugs and that's. going to change everybody's experience, you know. >> Can I ask you how that applies if. someone is it the same if someone has. insurance or if they don't have. insurance? like is how does insurance. bill it versus how does someone buy on. their own? >> It if they um it's going to lower price.

for everybody. Anybody can go on Trump. RX whether they have insurance or not. and they can get it there. >> and they would buy it themselves. >> Yeah. >> And so it' be at a substantially lower. price than they would have had in the. past. >> Exactly. >> They buy it themselves. What if people. are just getting it through insurance? Do they. >> again, you know, then there. >> does insurance lower it as well or do. they? >> Yeah, the the copay is lowered. >> Okay. >> And you know, we had the first woman to. buy. a drug on it. The first customer was a.

woman who has been trying for years to. do IVF. and the drug cost $4,000 and now I think. it costs uh you know something like $600. >> really. Uh so it's gonna allow you know. women uh one out of every three women in. this country does not have as many. children as she wants and she can't have. more and IVF is going to be really. important because our birth rates just. dropped I mean dramatically this year. they dropped to 1.75. So yeah people.

don't understand that. You know we've. had a few conversations on this podcast. about population decline and people just. most people are not aware of it. They. just see how many people are on the. highway. They think we're overcrowded. They don't understand this replacement. number that we're going to need unless. we want our population. >> The US is in a different situation than. other countries. Japan is in total. crisis, >> right? >> China is in an existential crisis. because uh you know its population is.

going to drop dramatically. >> South Korea. >> Yeah. Um but you know people want to. immigrate here so we can make up the. deficit through immigration. It's going to you know uh and that we. have that advantage but we you know it's. still the birth rate has dropped. It. dropped one and a half or um it dropped. from uh 1.9 this year to 1.75 and that. affects social security. it affects you.

know it it makes it so that the cliff. for social security was pushed ahead by. another year because of that uh drop in. birth rate so it's um it's not a good. thing and you know American women want. to have babies and a lot of a third of. them cannot have as many children as. they want. >> um what was the push back when it came. to things like removal of dyes. >> the removal of eyes.

Again, we were I think because of. President Trump's leadership, we were able to convene the industry and. talk to them about it and a lot of them. came in and said, "Yeah, you know, we. know we got to change.". >> Really? >> Yeah. The only one ever ask them why. didn't you do it a long time ago? >> Well, they didn't have options and what. we did. But didn't most of them like for. cereal for example, didn't they have to.

have no unnatural dyes when they sent it. to Canada? >> Yeah, the ones in Canada, but in our. country, we hadn't approved a bunch of. them. So, we only had one or two ve. vegetable based eyes, Marty McCary, who's done a fantastic job at FDA, has now fasttracked it this year five. new or seven new ones. So we're working. with the industry to make sure they have. the dies and they're supposed to get rid. of all the dyes by the end of this year. and that's gonna you know that.

>> so instead they'll use just food based. dyes. Yeah, just yeah vegetable. vegetable and mineralbased dies. and that's you know another thing that. we did again through convening. industry because of President Trump's. convening power um we fixed the prior. authorization. So one of the most. frustrating things that um. [clears throat] that people go through. when they encounter the health care. system is is [snorts] that they have to.

wait for prior authorization from their. insurance company. So, you go in, your. doctor tells you you need a knee. replacement, and then it gets you, it. takes you six months for the company to. approve, for the insurance company to. approve the surgery. And and you know, it was infuriating for. people and really devastating and. heartbreaking for a lot of them. And we. got um we got the the biggest insurance. companies representing 80% of the. American public all voluntarily agree to.

eliminate prior authorization for almost. all their procedures. It's very small. number now. I think 15% of the. procedures still have it and those are. procedures we want prior authorization. because there's a potential for abuse. For example, with spinal surgeries, a lot of people don't need the surgery. and Medicaid Medicare wants to make sure. that they actually need that surgery and. it's beneficial to them. But for all the. other ones, you will now know at point of care.

whether or not your insurance. So, you. go to your doctor, he says you need a. knee surgery, before you leave his. office, you'll know whether the. insurance company approves of it or not. And that's going to dramatically change. the medical experience. Another thing. that we did again through convening. industry is we originally got 63. the top tech companies together and that. we ended up final agreement with 405 of. them to agree to stop information.

blocking. So your medical records. are owned by you, but you can't get. access to them. A lot of times, most of. the time, you're the data company won't. give them to you. And so we've got them. all to agree to stop do that. So by the. end of this year, every American will be. able to get their medical records on. their cell phone. And that's going to. dramatically change the medical. experience. It's going to save lives. because if you get hit, you know, you.

live in New Jersey, you get hit by a car. in Portland, Oregon, you go to the. hospital and you spend the first two. hours while you're bleeding out, you. know, making out clipboards now, or you. come in unconscious and they don't know. what to do with you. They don't know. anything about you. Now, your medical. records are on your cell phone. They can. see if you have allergies. They can see. what your blood type is. they can look. at all of your, you know, previous. medical records and make a uh make good. decisions about how to treat you. And.

that is and also you're going to be able. to sync that with um with food purchases. apps so that you'll be able to go into a. grocery store and the the app will tell. you this one is bad for you. this, you. know, this uh this choice is bad for you. and offer you a better choice, etc. And. there's an app like that. Yaka now, but. there's a lot of them coming online now. >> What's it called? >> Yaka is the one. I think 50% of the.

people in France use Yaka, but it's. >> Do you spell it? >> I think it's Yu CCA. >> Okay. >> Or Yuka. I don't know. You can look it up. We use it. My wife use it. You go into. the grocery store. You go into the grocery store and you uh. you put it on the barcode and and it it. rates each of the products about whether. or not they're you know whether it's. good or healthy one and then it makes. you a recommendation for a healthier one.

if it's if it's bad for you. And that is. going to change the food culture in our. country because the the company's. already changing their ingredients so. that they can get better scores from the. Yucka app and from other apps that are. like it. It's not the only one out. there. >> But what about preservatives in. processed foods? Um, they're always. going to exist, right? You're always. going to have certain amount of. preservatives in processed foods. >> Well, I mean, first of all, we're not.

going to take processed foods away from. people, but we're going to I think we're. going to change the amount of processed. foods. One is by April we will have uh a. federal definition of ultrarocessed. foods first time in the history. And as. soon as we do that we're going to do. front of package food labeling. So every. food in your grocery store will have a. label on it. It'll have maybe a green. light, a red light or yellow light.

telling you whether or not it's going to. be good for you. >> Oh wow. and that, you know, and it's. going to evaluate all of the. ingredients, etc. Um, so I, you know, I. think we're not going to change this. overnight, but we're going to change it. pretty quickly. And if you want to be. healthy, we're going to give you the information. to take control of your own own health. People just don't want to be healthy and. don't care. There's not much you can do. about it. And most Americans want to be. healthy. And they, you know, we've seen.

that when they're allowed to make. healthy choice, they do. They do not. want to be eating this poison. >> Yeah. And ironically, to people that. don't want to be healthy, they feel that. way because they're not healthy. If they. wanted a. >> If they were healthy, they would want to. stay healthy. They just [clears throat]. part of the reason why they're feeling. this way is because they're unhealthy. That's why they don't care. Yeah. Well, it's also like the the mountain is so. big. If you if you're 300 lb, you're. like, "Oh my god, it's so much work to. do something about this and not fall. back on the old behaviors, you And I and.

I don't know other than by example how. you can get a large group of people to. go along with that, you know, when when. someone like Jelly Roll loses like I. think it's close to 300 lb. When someone. like that does that, you know, that's. going to help a lot of people. So some. kind of an example of a guy who just. completely changed his lifestyle around. could change changed what he eats. >> and he did it without uh GLPs. >> Yes, he did. >> Pretty amazing. >> Um which brings me to peptides. where. where are we at right now on peptides. and getting them regulated and making.

sure it's not this weird gray area. because we know they're effective but we. also know that there's a lot of push. back on peptides. >> Yeah. I mean I'm a big fan of peptides. I've used them myself and used them with. really good effect um [clears throat]. you know with on a couple of injuries. Um what happened was there were 19. peptides that you can just so people. understand the there's a there was a law.

written that um to allow compounding. pharmacies. to make compounds that were part of. approved drugs. So, you know, part of. approved ingredients of approved drugs. to make them [clears throat]. individually for patients who could did. not have access to the particular. um. formulation. that they needed to fit them, maybe if.

they had an allergy to the commercial. brand or whatever. And the compounding. pharmacies and peptides was part of that. group. There were 19 peptides that were. widely formulated by compounding. pharmacies during the Biden. administration. They illegally move those to category 2, which says do not formulate. It was. illegal because they're not supposed to. do that unless there's a safety signal. And they didn't have a safety signal. They're not allowed to look at efficacy.

They're not allowed to say, "Well, we. don't believe these are efficacious or. whatever." they can only look at safety. They move those to category 2 which. means do not formulate. What happened? There was huge demand for peptides. And so a black market came out and the. black market is run by. companies that say that they're making. the peptides for animal use or for. research purposes.

And the um and that peptide now. basically completely replaced the legal. market. The legal market for peptides. the um the. um the the pharmacies the compounding. pharmacies. were getting those peptides from FDA. inspected facilities and some of them in. India and China but they were the same. one that the pharmaceutical industries. are buying them and we inspect those. you know, you're getting a uh a good.

product. You know, you're getting what. you bought, what you what was advertised. with the gray market. You have no idea. And a lot of this stuff that we've. looked at is just, you know, is very. very substandard. Oh, I'm very anxious to move not. probably not all of those peptides. Some. of them are in litigation, but about 14 of them back to. making them more accessible. And FDA is.

in the middle of of um I think within a. couple of weeks we will have announced. uh some kind of new action. And my you. know, my hope is that they're going to. end up with they're still looking at the. science. My hope is that they're going to get. moved to a place where people have. access from ethical suppliers. >> That's ultimately the the problem with. all this black market stuff, right? A. lot of people are getting bogus peptides. and they don't have any idea how they if.

they work, whether to test them. They. just take a chance. They take a risk. They get a a little flyer in their email. or something and uh they hear from. somebody else, I got it from this place. They don't even know and they try it. And you're getting nonsense bogus. peptides. I mean, we created the black. market. >> Yeah. Which we do with every. >> very dangerous black market, >> which they've done during prohibition. They're doing it right now with. everything else. >> It's unfortunate. Um I know there's been. some talk about um.

uh psychedelics and I know that uh in. particular I gain what's going on in. Texas with the uh Ibagain initiative. where uh former Governor Rick Perry and. Brian Hubard have been helping a lot a. lot of veterans a lot of people with. like serious opioid addictions and and. this is uh the plan to have this and run. some programs where you you have this. very effective way of getting people off. addictions that we have for some reason. banned in America up until, you know,

these initiatives. And I think there's some stuff that can. help a lot of people. I mean, what how. many people are addicted to opioids in. this country? It's pretty high. How many. people. >> 48,000 48 million? >> Have you looked into the ibeane stuff? >> Yeah. >> What what's your thoughts on it? I my I. don't know enough and I don't think it's. well documented enough about whether you. know it's long-term impact on addiction. but um in terms of just sort of the.

field of psilocybin and MDMA and. there are lots and lots of good studies. now that um that clearly demonstrate. that or strongly suggest that it is. effective against uh PS psd. >> PTSD. >> yeah PTSD sorry and um and you know also. some forms of depression etc. And.

[clears throat]. so I would say everybody in my agency. and over at VA at Doug Collins agency is. um very anxious to get a rule out there. that will allow these kind of studies. will allow access under therapeutic. um settings and you know particularly to. the military. soldiers who have suffered these. injuries to get access to these. products. We're working through that.

process now. And you know, you have uh. from Marty McCary, I mean, we're all. working on it and trying to trying to. make it happen. >> It would be great to extend that to. police officers, too, probably. >> Yeah. [clears throat]. >> You know, I mean, a lot of the same type. of PTSD they experience, it just doesn't. get brought up as much. Um. >> and if you know if you can if you can. treat depression and you know uh without. using SSRI putting somebody a lifetime.

sentence to SSRIs. you can treat them. There's a number of. things not just psychedelics but a. number of interventions that we're. looking at that are rapid interventions. are more transformative than the way. that psychedelics seem to rewire your. brain. And so we're looking at that as an. entire category of interventions that. people ought to be able to study, ought to have good access to and we. should get it out to the public as. quickly as possible. >> What would be the hurdles to something.

like that? >> Um. I think that we're going to get it done. >> So how would that be implemented? Would. it be implemented in a clinical setting? Would it be some somewhere that. >> well for some of them you know. [clears throat] for some of them it. would be that you can do you know to. encourage more clinical trials and. others it would be there would be very. strong guideline I mean this is what. we're envisioning so I can't tell you.

exactly what we're going to do. >> but very very strong uh guidelines for. therapeutic guidelines so how they're. applied what kind of followup because a. lot of these things rewire your brain. if you don't do followup, it doesn't. work, you know, or you have a failure. rate. So, you know, those kind of protocols are. all stuff that we've been developing and. studying. And we're, you know, I think. most of the people in the administration. are anxious to make this happen as. quickly as possible. And I know Doug.

Collins over at the VA already has, I. think, 21 studies going over there. And. they're, you know, they're very, very. promising. >> And what are they using at the VA? Uh I. think they're using combinations of MDMA. and psilocybin. maybe using um epigane but and you know. I I think they're looking at a number of. things including io and epig. >> Um they shot down something fairly. recently in California where they were. going to decriminalize where they're.

going to decriminalize psilocybin or. they were going to allow it for clinical. use. But I think the problem that they had. was they didn't shut they didn't say. we're we're completely opposed to it. They said there's no guidelines in terms. of like how's it going to be clinically. applied, who are going to be the people, what's the dosage. >> Yeah. You need those guidelines because. you don't want to make the wild west. >> Exactly. >> You're going to have horror stories. overnight because people, as you know, you know, some people can have very,

very bad experiences on that. Also, some. people are on medications and they. should be very aware that this. medication would re go really badly with. x amount of whatever. >> right the substance. >> So, I mean, you know, we're looking at. ways to get it done so that it's in a. very controlled setting. And so would. would you envision a place like that. like once it's implemented where someone. who's suffering from depression or PTSD. regardless of whether they're a soldier. or cop or just a regular person could be.

able to go to a place like that and get. treatment. >> For me, you know, personally, I would. like to see that. Um but um you know I I. we need to move in baby steps with this. because you don't want to create a. situation where. >> people are getting hurt and that. [clears throat] you know. >> and you don't want to create a situation. where mentally unstable people snap. which can happen. >> which can happen. >> Yeah that's [clears throat] a that that. is a these are very powerful tools. you're working with. It's a.

>> it's like everything else you can do it. wrong. Um, but. it just makes sense that if you had less. depressed people, more happy people, more people connected, more people that. can kind of let go of whatever traumatic. experience they went through and just. live a more joyful, productive life, which many people that have taken these. substances have experienced. Like, it's. it's not a cure all for everything. It's. not going to fix everybody. It's not. even for everybody, but deny people. access. You you shouldn't have a soldier.

who has given everything for the. country, who has suffered terribly, who. has to go to Tijana to get these. treatments, who has to leave our country. in order to get the treatments. It. doesn't make any sense. And. >> no, it doesn't. Especially when so many. of them have come back with these. stories, guys Sean Ryan, a bunch of. bunch of my friends have done it. And uh. I had a good friend who uh my friend Ed. Clay who runs the CPI down in Tijana, the Cellular Performance Institute,

which is an amazing stem cell clinic. down there. He went down there because. he hurt his back and he got on pills and. he couldn't get off of them. Did I got. off of them? He's like, "Oh my god.". Like more people have to be aware of. this. This is this really works. This is. a thing that has been shown. I think. it's in the 80% range when you do one. treatment of where people don't relapse. and it's in a 90% range with two. treatments. I mean, it's incredibly. effective. There's nothing like it. >> and yet we've been denied. It also has. like no chance of you being addicted to.

it. It's a terrifying experience. apparently or at least very very. uncomfortable. It takes 24 hours. Nobody. wants to hop in and do it again. It's. not like, "Hey, let's party and take I. gain like. >> an ordeal. It's an ordeal. Exactly. And. that ordeal is extremely beneficial to. people but also like severs the impulse. of addiction in a lot of people like. it's very successful at it. >> Yeah. I mean um I had a family member. who whose life was transformed by it. So.

and you know I've been in recovery for. 43 years. So and I go to a meeting every. day. Oh, it's pretty hard to convince me. that you can fix what's wrong with you. by taking something outside of you, >> but I have seen so much uh overwhelming. anecdotal evidence, but also clinical. studies. that attest to, you know, to the. effectiveness under some circumstances.

with some people. or these um these medicines. Oh, you. know, and I think you've got Jay Bachara. at NIH and Marty McCary um at FDA who. are all uh you know, doing whatever they. can to make this happen. >> Yeah. Well, I I sincerely hope that more. people consider it. And I think one of. the big hopes that we have is when you. have someone like uh former Texas. Governor Rick Perry who's a Republican.

looking at this instead of from like for. the longest time that was a left-wing. perspective, right? Legalized marijuana, legalized psychedelics. It was never you. don't you didn't hear about it from. former Republican governors like Rick. Perry. But when he sees the benefit that. it has with veterans, which he cares. very deeply about the veteran community, he's like, "No, this is not something to. ignore just because it's connected to. hippies." You know, I don't know if you. remember this, but uh Hunter Thompson. during uh whatever election he covered.

in Fear and Loathing on the campaign. trail. It's when [clears throat]. >> 73. >> when he um put out that rumor that Ed. Musky was addicted to. >> I [laughter]. Brazilian witch doctors were coming and. giving him I gain it ruined that guy's. career. [laughter]. >> But it's so funny that he chose that. drug because uh it's like no one's. addicted to that. It's it's got that's. not the risk. The risk is heart attacks. The risk is you have to have your heart. monitored while you're doing it. It's.

like it's very stressful for a lot of. people. But on a clinical setting, it's. shown to be incredibly effective. And I. don't think we should ignore these. things. I I think it's foolish. And I. think that is one that seems to have a. bipartisan uh agreement on because a lot. of people on the left have always been. in favor of some kind of psychedelic. therapy just based on experiences. they've had that were positive, you. know, but seeing it from the right is. very uh very encouraging because I think. it's it's something for human beings.

It's not for everybody, but it's. something it's a tool that I have seen. benefit many, many people, and we should. use every tool that could help us be. healthier and happier. Period. That that. shouldn't be a right or a left issue. That's just silly. It's just dumb. >> Agreed. >> Yeah. I mean, it's it's shocking that. that is an unusual perspective. But uh I. think we've been propagandized for so. long particularly on um certain things. like you know the just the the blanket.

term of drugs that all of them fall into. this category of you trying to escape. reality and um this one is literally the. opposite. It's like you confronting. reality and finding out why the pathways. to certain destructive behaviors were. set in your life and how to correct it. I think that'd be great for everybody. I. agree. >> Yeah. Um. you've got you're already a year in here. plus and you know is it going as fast as.

you'd hoped like some of these reforms? Is there is there what what are the like. the main frustrations that you have to. deal with? Well, I mean, I didn't know. what to expect and you know, I didn't know when I came in. I didn't. know the president that well. So, you. know, but from the beginning, he uh he was empowering me. And, you. know, I never made an agreement with him. about anything. But, and the first time. he asked me whether I wanted to be HHS.

secretary, I said, "I don't think so. I. wanted to do some I wanted to be maybe a. health star in the White House." And. then I thought about it for a while and. thought, "No, I I really won't be. effective if I unless I'm in this agency. and can actually, you know, get into the. weeds and has 82,000 employees and. all the biggest budget in government and. that would actually give me the power to. to change the system.".

And and so then I went back to him and I. said, you know, I want HHS and he said, "Fine." And then he allowed me to. appoint all of my sub sub you know. agency heads which no president has ever. done with an HHS secretary in history. He allowed me to appoint Marty McCary. choose Marty McCary. at FDA Jay Bachara um Dr. Oz and CMS and. everybody else below them. Um so. nobody's ever been able to do that. And.

then he, you know, he gave me a very. prominent job on the transition. committee. to set this all in motion. And then once. I got in, he supported me on everything. And that I think was um allowed me to do. things more during I I think I mean I I. don't want to say sound like you know. vain or something but because of the. great team that we have and because of. the support of the president we've been. able to uh accomplish more in one year.

than I think any other HHS secretary has. done in history in four years. Oh, I'm. pleased with what we've done, but. there's still I mean it's the uh it's. 20% of our economy. and so it's a huge agency and there's. you know it's in everything and there's. a lot to do but I think we're moving. really fast. >> So better than you'd hoped. I would say, "Yeah, if you put this on.

the table. and said you can have this at, you know, the first day I got into office, I would. snatch it off and say, I'll take it.". But I mean, I could only imagine staring. at that mountain when you're at the foot. of it and realizing what a climb this is. going to be. >> That's not how I approach it. I just did. it one thing at a time. And there's. something to fix every single day. And. um. I have the smartest people in the. country working with me. And you know,

we meet every day, me and Oz and Jay and. um now Chris Clom um and uh and Marty, we have a meeting every morning and we. talk about what we're doing and about. where we need to help each other. And. you know, it's a really uh it's a very. very congenial team. we all feel like. family with each other and we vacation. together and you know it's uh I think. because of that in in former times the.

HHS secretary has always been at odds. with his departments and you know under. uh Biden and uh even under the previous. Trump administration. >> Why do you think that was? >> I because I I think part of it is. personalities. They're all kind of, you. know, alpha people. They have different. ideas. and um and then they I don't know. I. mean, we.

I I think a lot of that is just. personality and. um struggling for for um. uh for power and influence and all of. that kind of stuff. you know, you want. to run your own agency. and you don't want interference and u. but we've been able to do it in ways. that are very very collegial. >> Um I I wanted to ask you about. pesticides. So what was the recent. ruling on glyphosate?

I was on an EO, which is an executive. order, >> right, >> from the president saying that um. we're going to. make the ingredients for glyphosate in. this country and for elemental. phosphorus. And you know, I've listen, I've spent 40 years fighting pesticides. It was I was part of the trial team on. the Monsanto case, which was the team. that, you know, we won three cases in a.

row and then got an 11 billion. um settlement with with uh Monsanto, which is now Bayer by the end of our. trial, Bayer owned Monsanto. But, you know, pesticides are poison. They're designed. to kill all life. It's not a good thing. to have in your food. So, but I also so. it's not something that I was. particularly happy with. Let me put it. that way mildly. But I also understand the president's.

point of view. The president didn't. create this system. He's dealing with a problem that was. created long before over the past. 60 years. when um you know through federal. policies and subsidies and the. management of of farming in this country. the agricultural management we have. addicted our farmers to these pesticides. and particularly glyphosate. Glyphosate. is the foundational. pesticide of our food production system.

So. 97%. of corn in this country is produced with. glyphosate and can't be produced without. it. 98% of you know you could do it. You. could change it. There's organic corn. producers in this country. It's like 3%. 98% of soy is produced with glyphosate. If you banned glyphosate overnight or if. you got rid of it or if somebody else.

cut off our supply, >> it would uh it would destroy the. American food system. And it. >> how crazy is that statement? The. American foods the entire system is. based on using poison, >> right? The farmers don't like it. You. know, let me just explain what the. EO did right now. According to the. industry reports, 99% of our glyphosate comes from China. So the Pentagon and others said this is.

an extreme national security. vulnerability that China controls the US. food system. We can't afford to let that happen. If. we got in some kind of tangle with them, it could literally cut off our food. supply overnight and [ __ ] the. country. And and so that's what the. president was responding to. But we all. know we've got to transition off of. glyphosate. We all know that. And the. farmers hate it. Farmer one, it, you. know, they're now starting to see these.

uh these chemical resistant uh uh weeds. So that that can't be treated with. glyphosate. Now it's predictable. Two, they hate the inputs. It's cost them a. lot of money. Um three, the uh foreign countries won't. allow them to export like Europe doesn't. allow most European countries don't. allow the export of our crops to their. countries. >> Well, how are they doing it? They use less glyphosate than we do,

>> but they. >> or they use some they use it, but you. know, our system was is all roundup. ready corn and roundup ready soy and so. they don't you know they don't use it. like we do over here. >> ideally that we would transition away. from that, right? >> Yeah. And it's also they know it's. destroying their soil and they're all. suffering from runoff. You know, it. destroys the microbiome in the soil and. because of that the soil um can't you.

you you don't get water infiltration in. the soil. and so the soil then runs off and you. know that it it's destroying their. farms. It's not sustainable. Everybody. knows that. We had Will Harris from. White Oak Pastures on here and he showed. us the literal line in the river between. his organic farm and the next door. neighbor's farm where you could see this. clear line where all the runoff is going. into the river. >> Yeah. But Will Harris will also tell you. the same thing that I said is that what.

he did is is you know is very hard and. it it's not. >> took him 20 years. >> What. >> took him 20 years. It took him 20 years. and it's not applicable to every farmer. and. >> he you know he understands the problem. too. We all understand that this is a. huge problem. So the president was. dealing with national security and they. did something that I I really don't like. which is to support there's a lawsuit. about that's now before the Supreme.

Court but in the lower court they. supported. that is asked for federal preeemption. So that would mean that if the uh if the. federal label uh um uh says that this is. safe that these state lawsuits now. cannot be brought. So it would throw out. a lot of the state lawsuits and me. effectively gives them immunity from. liability. which um. which is you know to me it's not good to.

give any company immunity from. liability. It gives it takes away all. incentive for them to make the product. safer. Again, the president is dealing. with bigger issues, which is the company. that's making this has paid 11 billion. to, you know, in my lawsuit, they just. uh they're just about to sign another. $7.6 billion settlement. 65,000 cases out there and they've said. we're getting out of this business, you. know, if this we if we don't get relief.

So the president is hearing that, the. farmers are hearing that, and they're. saying that, you know, this is a. temporary fix. We're putting huge amounts of money into. studying the impacts of of glyphosate. right now in my agency. I'm doing that. and we're doing um and the president has. made a big commit a billion dollar. commitment not only the regenerate. farming but also to uh developing new. ways of of.

chemical of of dramatically reducing the. amount of of chemicals in our. agriculture. I met this week with three. farmers from um who are using this new. system of lasers and which is now the. cheapest way to control weeds in the. vegetable fields. So, you know, vegetables, lettuce, celery, um all of. these vegetables now they're using a lot. of them. You know, you're going to see a. very quick transition.

It's a it's a a an attachment that is. dragged by a a tractor. It kills the weeds at every stage of. their life. It identifies their species. and kills them instantly all the way. down through their root system by. exploding them with this laser. And yeah, here here is one of the. >> This is what it looks like. >> Yeah, that's what. >> and this guy. [laughter]. >> So I. >> can I ask you this? Does this have any. negative effect whatsoever on the food? >> No. In fact,

>> you get a 30% increase in productivity. of the farm and the growing season is. shorter shortens by 3 weeks for onions. So, and that is a huge economic boom. >> Exactly. >> It pays itself back in for some of these. farmers, it pays itself back in um in uh. nine uh nine months. It's a million. dollar is a million dollar machine, but. it pays back. They're paying vegetable. field. This onion producer in South.

Texas, the biggest onion producer in. Texas, she has 8,000 acres. She was paying $1,500. per acre for pesticides [clears throat]. for mainly glyphosate and for manual. labor. And now with this machine, it's. $300. She's saving over $1,000 an acre. >> Is this showing how it does? >> She's got 8,000 acres. So, it's a. million-dollar machine, which sounds. like a lot, but you got 8,000 acres and. you're paying 1,500 bucks an acre per. growing season. >> They missed one.

>> Maybe. [laughter]. >> And you know, now they're making them on. drones. >> Maybe a crop. >> Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. >> There's all these kind of new exciting. technologies that give us a a light at. the end of the tunnel to transition and. it could be very very fast. What the. president wants to do is accelerate. that. He says, "Yeah, we've got we can't. allow the company to go bankrupt. We. can't allow foreign interference, but we. got to get off of this stuff. We got to. give these farmers an offramp so that.

they can get off it because they don't. want to be on it and nobody wants. >> without crashing the food system." So, so this is a bridge. This is a bridge to. path you think would be technologies. like this for weeds. What about for. bugs? >> The, you know, it's harder. These. systems are are more difficult. are not yet economic in the in the the. corn field, the row crops. They're. they're economic for organic corn. And I. talked to an organic corn farmer who is. in love with his machine.

But yeah, they can do it for bugs, too. >> So they just zap the bug. >> They zap the bug. They identify him and. zap him. Um, but in the row crops, the, you know, these guys, the vegetable. crops are paying 1,500 bucks an acre, the row crops are 50 bucks an acre. And. so to get economically to their level, they have to scale enormously. So that. is, you know, how do we help them do. that? How do we bring Silicon Valley.

entrepreneurs and billionaires in to. start investing really heavily in these. kind of technologies? And let's get off. of this stuff. What are the primary. health concerns about people that. consume too much glyphosate or is there. a threshold like I I know there's like a. safe level that's supposed to be. detectable in your blood like what does. that mean in terms of. >> I don't know if there is any safe level. I don't know you know I don't. >> I shouldn't even say there is a. >> that is what we are trying to figure out. right now and it's it's associated with.

>> um non-alcoholic fatty liver disease. it's you know but There's a scientific. association, but it's not strong enough. for people to litigate on the the. litigation was all about non-hodkins. lymphoma. >> Only that. >> Yeah, because that's the one thing that. they had a critical mass of scientific. studies supporting. >> Um, now what about when they use it at. the end of. >> it? Definitely. it definitely disrupts sorry your gut.

biome. Yes, >> it it it is um it's the the advantage of. glyphosate is unlike the other poisons, it doesn't harm organic tissue, but it. goes after plants, not animal tissue, but your stomach microbiome is plants. And uh and so you know um there's uh you. know it may contribute to this the. celiac disease and to all these gluten.

allergies. It was co-terminus with that. You know the introduction of glyphosate. of of [clears throat]. Roundup ready corn. You know what. Roundup Ready corn is right? means that. you can spray the field and everything. [clears throat] green dies except for. the corn which is immune to glyphosate. That's why it's so advantageous to them. It saves huge labor costs and it it. allows them to you know to sell the corn. at a price that people can afford. Um.

the you know one of the most. controversial uses is a desicant. and that means that there is no roundup. ready wheat. So, normally they weren't. using this in the wheat field, but. around 2003 they started using it to dry. out the wheat just before harvest. And. that way they can harvest it without. getting fungus on it and without getting. mold on it. And for the first time, they. were spraying it right on food.

And so that is real, you know, the major. factor for getting into human beings. And you know around 2003 is when you. started seeing these explosions in. celiac disease and gluten allergies. There's no clear scientific evidence. that it's related. But you know there is. a uh you know there's some signals out. there that now we're looking at it HHS. for the first time. They should have. been looking at it this 30 years ago and. [clears throat] um but you know they're.

not but we're doing it now. Well, there's a lot of anecdotal stories about. people going to Italy or Spain and. France, eating bread over there, not. having any problem with it at all, and. being so confused. And then also people. coming from Europe and eating in America. and getting sick. >> And I don't know whether that there's no. telling whether that's glyphosate or. other pesticides or whatever, but. >> but it's something. I have a I have a. son. who had chronic eczema from when he was. a kid. The disease I I never heard of as.

a kid and everybody's got it now. And he. would get it any time that he ate. spaghetti or or bread or you know um and. he went and he went to the University of. Bolognia. He went to Brown and then he. took a year at the University of. Bolognia and he ate spaghetti three. meals a day and had no problem. And so, and you hear there's, you know, there's hundreds of stories like that. that we've all heard. >> I feel different when I go to Italy. When I go to Italy and I eat over there, I feel different. I feel different if I.

use there's a a restaurant that uh um. called Gaitanos in Las Vegas and. Henderson and they use all Italian. flour. They import it all from Italy. You could it tastes different. It feels. different. You don't feel terrible after. you eat it. There's a something's wrong. with our food and everybody knows it. And the fact that it's become a leftwing. or a right-wing issue is one of the. dumbest decisions we've ever made as a. country. And I know that a lot of it is. again a lot a lot of a lot of.

propaganda. A lot of a lot of these. narratives trying to push people into. thinking that things aren't dangerous. because right-wing people believe in. them and that it's nonsense. And it's. just I don't know what that pathway is. when you're dealing with monocrop. agriculture and you have these enormous. farms and you say 98% is based on. glyphosate use or whatever it is like. how do we get those people to ultimately. transition and if they do could they. even produce enough of their product to.

stay viable? I can tell I mean I've met. with over a hundred farmers and. developing the food guidelines our team. and you know I've been doing. agricultural issues for 30 years and I. can tell you farmers are the most. hardworking people that I've ever met. They are good people. They want to. produce the healthiest foods. and they don't like the inputs are. killing them. there. You know, seven out. of out of 10 years farmers lose money.

and you there's no young people moving. to the farm country anymore. So, you. know, we we really need to do what we. can to make sure we don't lose any more. farms in this country. And that's what. the president's worried about. That has. to be his priority. But he also wants to. make sure we accelerate the uh the. offramps, the development of offramps. that they can transition off of this. and we're putting huge amounts of money. into regenerative agriculture. People like, you know, Mr. Harris and uh.

and you know, and meeting with him and. Brook Rollins and meeting with these. guys all the time trying to figure out. how do we help you? How do we help other. farmers to do what you're doing? And you. know, that is a priority for the. administration. Um, do you envision a possibility, a real. possibility of a country that is all. regenerative agriculture with no. pesticides? Is that even possible that.

we could get to a point whether it's a. decade from now or two decades from now. where we've completely eradicated the. uses of these harmful chemicals? >> I mean, I think that's going to happen. You know, I think technology is going to. allow us that to happen. Um, but you know, you're going to have a. lot of robotic farming happening and. that's another question. But. but. >> well that's robotic with these lasers. That's essentially what you're doing. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> So that would be.

>> you're going to have drones doing this. >> You know, you'll have have drone swarms. over farms uh killing the insects. >> What about industrial fertilizer? What. would be the solution to that? uh and. that's a little more difficult. particularly in some parts of the. country you know you need um you need. nutrients in the soil but there's ways. of of growing and you know Harris has. shown this where you can dramatically. reduce the amount of um of uh petroleum.

based fertilizers that you're using. dramatically almost eliminate them. >> Sure. But uh the scale of his farm and. the scale of the production in. comparison to these monocrop agriculture. places that produce corn. I mean these. people are dealing with enormous amounts. of crops. It's the question is could. that be scaled regeneratively? Could you. could you get it to a point where you. have organic farms only? >> I you know I think with technology. you're going to eliminate a lot of the.

pesticides and the herbicides. I think. the. um that the uh it's going to be much. slower when you talk about fertilizers. >> But is there a pathway for that? >> I hope so. >> But you haven't. >> No. >> No. Because it's so far off. >> Yeah. I mean that's going to be after my. three years before that happens. [laughter]. >> Do you uh I mean if uh someone else wins. and they want you to stay, are you going.

to stay? Do you do you have a thought of. that or do you want to do as much as you. can in four years? >> Well, I whatever happens because you. can't tell what's going to happen in the. election. >> that I will I'm going to I'm going to. act as if I got three years to do. everything. >> and if I, you know, get more time then I. would probably take it. >> Um, how many days a week are you. working? >> Well, I work uh I mean I'm work when I'm.

home. I'm working. It doesn't it doesn't. stop. >> It's just your life. >> And then [clears throat] we have a. president who has, you know, never stops. working and he's up till 11 12 at night, you know, which you can get a call at. that point. He says, "Were you sleeping. 2:00 in the morning?" Yeah. No, no, of. course not. I was working. >> Oh, [laughter]. he's an interesting guy to work for. >> Yeah. He's got a lot of energy for an. old. >> He's got an incredible amount of I've. never seen anything like it. And.

particularly with the food he eats. >> Yeah. >> You don't know how he does. >> He's still he's still eating mostly I. mean. >> he I've never seen Well, no. Let me put. it this way. When he's on the road, he. eats like fast food because he trusts. it. He doesn't want to he doesn't want. to eat in some local place where, you. know, he gets food poisoning or. something. Um, but when he's at home at. the White House or Mara Lago, it is the, you know, it's all like locally sourced.

incredible food. >> Oh, that's good. >> So, he eats well. I mean, but he still. drinks. Dana White told me that he's known him. for 20 years and he's never seen him. drink water. Just drinks Coca-Cola. What. does he drink? Diet Coke, right? Doesn't. he? You know, I just had Michael Malison. in here. He was talking about how he got. off aspartame and how his brain fog just. completely cleared up. >> He was drinking Diet Coke every day. >> That is a really sleazy saga about how.

that got into her. >> We talked about the other day. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. [clears throat] We brought it up. >> That was uh. >> Donald Rumsfeld. >> Donald Rumsfeld. >> Yeah. >> And there was a really good FDA. commissioner back then. um named David Kennedy. no relation, but. he was uh he was a a guy from Stanford. I think he was the president of Stanford. for a while. And he was really good, had. total integrity. He was like David. Castler, another really great FDA head. And he uh he banned aspartane and.

Rumsfeld came in there and just. overruled them. Rumsfeld had owned SURL, you know, which was making it. um [clears throat]. That's how it worked. >> Well, that's why that's why this uh time. with you in office has been encouraging. I mean, you doing the things that you. wanted to do was to me the most. interesting thing about this. administration going in because I I I.

knew your conviction. I I'd read your. your Fouchy book and I'm like, if. anybody could do something about this, it's you. And I'm I'm kind of amazed at. how much you have been able to do. and. also, you know, re watching the struggle, the. difficulties of getting things pushed. through that should have been pushed. through easily with rational thinking. Um, it's it's a fascinating time because. we are in a time of change. Some of it's. good, some of it's bad, but we're we're. definitely in a time of change. And.

that's not something you can say about. every administration. It's definitely. not something you could say about. everybody that's been the head of the. HHS. You're the first guy that gave me. hope when you got in there. I'm like, "Okay, maybe we'll see some meaningful. change with some things that are really. important for people's health." I think. uh. >> Oh, we're doing it. >> I think you are. I think you're doing. that. Um, is there anything else you. want to talk about? Any other subjects. you want to cover? >> Why don't you ask me about immigration. because I know that that's something. that's disturbed you. Well, what are.

your thoughts on immigration on what's. going on? >> Well, you know, here here's the. background of my kind of assumptions. during the last 10 years of his life. I. worked very closely with Cesar Chavez. and I worked with he had two issues. He. had pesticides which were a huge issue. with him and that's what I worked with. him on on the dangers that you know his. workers. were experiencing from from pesticides. And the other issue he had was. immigration. He wanted to shut down the.

border because he saw the way that. it was impairing this huge influx of of. illegal immigr migration across the. border was impairing. his ability to get uh to bargain to. leverage good wages and conditions for. his workers. When I grew up, the Democratic party was. against im immigration. And it was the. Republican party who wanted it because. the big corporations wanted cheap labor. The Chamber of Commerce was firmly.

embedded in the Republican party and. they were all about open borders. Today, the Chamber of Commerce is with the. Democratic Party. And so, it's one of. these switches that is kind of. inexplicable to me, but I think again it. be it happened because President Trump. said, "I'm going to fix it with a wall.". And that became, you know, it suddenly. became open borders. suddenly became a a. calling card for the Democratic Party. But there's a reason, you know, and I. see it in my agency, the cost that it's.

it's imposing on our country and and you. know, on healthcare, diminishing health. care for Americans and housing and and. jobs and all of these place where it uh. it hurts. We need workers in here and we. need legal immigrants in here. But they. should come in legally and every country. has to do that. President Trump ran on. this issue. He's now and he ran that.

he's going to enforce it and deport. particularly the bad people. This is. what you don't hear. 70% of the people. that they've arrested are have criminal. records. What the Democrats are always. saying is only 14% of them have been. convicted of a a violent crime. Well, they've been convicted and a lot of. them, the other ones [clears throat]. have been arrested and they just haven't. been convicted yet because they jumped, you know, bail or they uh uh or they, you know, they jumped their their uh. their warrants. The other 30%, a lot of.

them are gang members. When they go. looking for an immigrant, they're not. just randomly searching, you know, restaurants. They're going after. particular people who they've gotten. their names from local law enforcement. and from others. During the Biden admin. or during the Obama administration, President Obama uh deported more people. than President Trump did, the most in. history. Nobody cares. And there were 76.

people shot. during that process during the Biden. administration. None of it made. headlines. About half of those people. were killed. None of it made the news now because. it's Trump doing it. You have the entire. Democratic party and the media. establishment saying, "Oh, look at the. horrible things. He's a dictator, but. he's doing what he promised to do to the. American people." It it's it's very. disturbing watching what you see on TV.

And the thing that makes it most. disturbing, is because there's so much. interaction with protesters, which is weird that the Democrats are. telling protesters to go out there and. stop law enforcement from doing its job. If you That's not how protests. [laughter] usually work. If you don't. like US drug policy, which you don't, you know, and a lot of people don't. A. lot of people don't like the war on. drugs at all. They think it's. counterproductive. You wouldn't send people to try to.

interfere with people who are who are uh. who are arresting a drug dealer. And. when [laughter] you have thousands and. thousands of people doing that, there's. going to be thousands of interactions. and some of those are going to end badly. because you have armed people doing. dangerous things. And when you have. crowds doing that, it's going to blow. up. And so, you know, I I I see this, you know, I nobody is happy with the way.

that things have looked, particularly in. Minnesota, but a lot of it is because of this. capacity of the press. to take to take Trump derangement. syndrome and amplify it into public. outrage and and set up a situation. I. mean, if you were you're a dad, I. wouldn't send my kids out to interfere. with law enforcement operation. There's. other ways to protest. Uh, but um, so I think that, you know, I.

I think now they're pulling out of. Minnesota. They're going to do this, you. know, in other states where they're not. going to get that kind of crowd. interaction. But a lot of the the people that they're. arresting are not, you know, they're. they're [clears throat] people who are. actually, you know, have, like I said, 70% have had criminal records. Uh yeah, we've we've actually covered that here. And then there's also the issue that. this is the first time in history that. the border has been wide open for four. years. It's a different thing. It's a.

different thing when you have at least. 10 million people. They don't even know. how many. For real. >> Yeah. It could be 20 million. >> They don't know. And that's a lot. And. to have that happen all at once is. pretty crazy. Um what I think what what. disturbs people is uh again obviously. these violent interactions. What should. disturb them is that these are not. organic protests that these protests are. organized and paid for and that's crazy. right. >> when you find that out and you find out.

that people can actually be paid to. protest and that they provide them with. signs. They tell them what they do. It's. organized. They have signal chats. There's been a lot of people online. talking about being paid to protest in. certain places and that's kind of insane. that that's even legal that you can. organize a mob and pay them to go and. make a bunch of noise. >> Um. >> it's like the color revolution, >> right? Exactly. And that it. [clears throat] happened here just. happened to take place in the place. where hundreds of millions of dollars of. fraud was being exposed. So then the.

narrative completely shifts away from. the fraud and onto this unnecessary. violence with ICE. And then there's the. natural thing that people have, this. distrust of people wearing masks. They. don't like that. They don't like. officers wearing masks. But on the other. side, they have to wear masks because. they're being docked and their families. are being threatened and you're filming. everything they do. And you're these. organized instigators. So if it wasn't. for organized protest, I wonder if those.

particular interactions would have even. happened, would have even taken place. And I know you're saying that they don't. that they're targeting specific people. They're going after bad people, but also. they're showing up at Home Depot and. just grabbing people, too, and trying to. find out if someone is a bad guy or a. good guy. So, there's probably a lot of. people that are just people that got. duped into coming to this country. thinking they're going to be welcomed. and then they come over here and they're.

trying to get jobs and now they're. getting arrested and deported. you know, it wasn't their fault that they were. encouraged and brought into this. country, but they did break the law. And. I understand I understand that. perspective. But it's kind of insane. that no one is pointing the blame at the. fact that they let at least 10 billion. people or 10 million, excuse me, people. into this country over the last four. years at least being charitable. >> It's kind of nuts. And I was down at the. border and [clears throat] you know I. was st when I during my presidential.

campaign I went down there and went down. a bunch of times but. first night I went down there to Tucson. >> and I couldn't believe what I was. seeing. It was like the Boston Marathon. the beginning of it just the sheer. number and they were you know they all. had it planned. The cartels were all you. know running the whole thing. They were. advertising all over the world and and. bringing people in and everybody was the. border patrol was completely. demoralized.

They were told, "Don't arrest anybody. Just uh fingerprint them if they're a. criminal. Turn them back." But, you. know, most of these people, they. couldn't figure that out. And uh and. otherwise put them on a bus or a plane. to anywhere they wanted to go in the. country. So it was just uh. >> and at the same time you have legitimate. people that are doing it the right way. that have to go through a long and. difficult lengthy process to get attain. citizenship and to come here or get a. green card and come here. Right. The. whole thing was crazy. And that, you.

know, one of the complicated issues that. you have now a bunch of sanctuary cities. and sanctuary states. And it used to be. that if somebody who was an illegal. immigrant was arrested for a crime. and put in the local jail, they ICE was. notified. So ICE would then come and. they local law enforcement would. transfer to ICE. In the sanctuary. cities, they don't do that. They just. let him go. And you know, it's not.

>> How is that legal? >> That seems insane. That seems like a. violation. >> Never a law. It was just a policy. You. know, that law enforcement always. cooperated with each other. Now, because. Trump's in there, they're saying, "Okay, we would rather take the you know, the. side of of um you know, a criminal than. uh take the side of the president." So, they're all they're choosing sides. as. part of it's like the other day. during the um.

during the State of the Union speech. when President Trump said he was talking. about immigration and he said please. stand up if you think that law. enforcement should protect the American. people over illegal immigrants and not a. single Democrat stood. >> Yeah. >> How can you how can you do that? >> Well, that's what we were talking about. earlier, what you were saying. It's just. they're they're ideologically captured. Yeah. I mean, that should be something. if you want to be taken seriously. You're a reasonable person. You would. stand up for that.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Um it just it really disturbs. people when you see masked people, grabbing people, arresting people, and a. lot of them turn out to be American. citizens. [clears throat]. >> You know, that's part of the problem, too. Um but I did look at a chart. recently because I thought it was. fascinating the number of American. citizens that were arrested. uh what. percentage during what Obama did versus. during Trump, it's actually I think. higher. More American citizens were. arrested during this Obama thing. Um you.

just never heard about it. Also, if you. hear Obama talk about immigration, if. you hear Hillary talk about immigration, or if you hear Bill talk about. immigration, you would swear they were. running for president as a Republican. Like [laughter] if you listen to the. things they were saying back then, it. was very much the Republican. perspective. >> Well, that was the Democratic party. always was was, you know, against an. open border. >> Yeah. Bernie even said it's like open. borders are that's a Republican idea.

They want cheap labor. >> Yeah. So, all right. Um, anything else before. we wrap this up? Listen, thank you very. much for all your hard work and uh it's. really it's very exciting for me to have. someone like you doing what you're doing. cuz I I do know that you really want to. push for meaningful change that's gen. genuinely going to help and uh I think. you know so far you're on a good path. So I hope we can get all the other stuff. done too. >> Well, thank you John. Thanks for the. conversation and thanks for all of your. conversations.

>> My [music] pleasure. Thanks for All. right. My pleasure. >> [music].