Joe Rogan Experience #2454 - Robert Malone, MD

The Joe Rogan Experience. TRAIN BY DAY, JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. ALL DAY. YEAH, FOR APPLE TV. We were trying [music] to figure out how. long it's been since you came on. It's. been somewhere in the neighborhood close. to 5 years. Yeah. A lot of water under the bridge. >> [laughter]. >> Your appearance on this show, boy, did. that create a lot of problems. [laughter]. Um yeah, I I didn't expect you ever.

having me on again. I thought maybe. Spotify was just going to say hell no. No, you were right. Like this is a victory dance. Like it. turned out that all your warnings and. all the things that you were saying. about the problems turned out to be. true. Well, thanks. And I know you've said. that on a few shows. Every time you do, somebody sends me a clip and sees, "Hey, Rogan said you're doing the right. thing." What was it like for you? First. of all, uh you know, they were trying to. label you a quack and a cook and They.

tried. I didn't I don't think it worked with. everybody. I mean, it it worked with. people that weren't paying attention. But it anybody that really paid. attention to your background said, "No, this guy's very credible." I mean, don't. you have like nine patents on mRNA. vaccine technology? Yeah, on the mRNA. Yeah, and a total of about 15, I think. Yeah. And you also took the vaccine and had a. horrible adverse event. A series of. them, yeah. Yeah. That that at the time,

it was so early. That was when the. National Guard was still doing it, and. that was Moderna. And um. the I was embarrassed uh by to have. these experiences. Um and I was embarrassed when I got. COVID in early 2020. Um you know, looking back. uh. there was so much. so much fear. Um so much. uh.

uh. anger and anxiety and everything wrapped. around all of this. Mhm. And in retrospect, it was, you know, it. was promoted, but it was also. very organic. Uh, you know, it was it. was, you know, looking back. being honest about it, it was a. frightening time, what was happening. And um. And yeah, I I you know, I had those. experiences. Uh, my uh doc, who was a cardiologist, was.

like, "Why were you so stupid to take. this?". Uh Your doctor said that, too? In 2021? >> Yeah. Um, she was. >> or 2021? >> 20 It was 20 21, 2021. Yeah. Um, I was going to a kind of a a. cardiologist that had left um. traditional medical practice. at uh UVA and the associated um. hospitals. And I was going to her for uh hormone. replacement therapy.

And uh bioidentical hormone replacement. therapy. And um she was monitoring a lot. of things. And and um yeah, that was her. response, "Why did you do this?" Of. course, I've had that question a. thousand times since. You know, why were you so stupid? You. were the one that should have known. Um, and so I have to answer that still. Uh, it's kind of gets a little tiresome. What was your perspective on the vaccine. before you took it? Um. to be honest, uh I was a little.

I was amazed. Uh, I was amazed that the that the. claims that the problems that I. encountered. when I had been working on it had been. solved. Uh, I didn't see how that could be the. case, but I knew that a huge amount of. money had been thrown at it, so it was. possible. What were the problems? Uh, in. my hands, it was inflammation primarily. It was also, you know, the it was. absolutely not localizable.

Uh, it was in in the monkey models that. we tested, it was incredibly. inflammatory. It didn't give long, um, levels long prolonged levels of. expression. It was hard to make. It was kind of, back then, it was, uh, a almost a little. bit of witchcraft. You'd drop, mean, for. me as a graduate student when I was. doing that, it was incredibly scary because it was a. couple thousand dollars worth of. reagents in a little tiny tube. And, you know, back in the late '80s,

that was real money. And, uh, and it didn't always work, the reaction. So, you know, it was it was a little bit. of a wing and a prayer. Uh, but then, um, as I started working with the with. animal models and with the different. formulations, I could come up with a. variety of different compounds and. formulations that worked pretty well in. cell culture, but not so well in animals. And, uh, I spent a lot of time trying to do that,

optimize that, and what I ended up with. is just seeing that it it really caused, you know, I'm sorry to use medical. jargon. I'm that's kind of where I'm. from, so that's the language I use. >> No, it's probably better if you do. It it caused a lot of inflammation. Uh, you know, white cell infiltrates, really aggressive white cell infiltrates. in my hands in both mice and monkeys. And I'd abandoned it as as something. that just, uh, you know, was was useful.

in in research, in particularly in cell. culture, but I just didn't see it um maturing as. a as an efficient delivery strategy. with, uh, low risk, you know, acceptable. risk in animals. And that also became the experience in. uh, at this company that I had first. joined where a lot of the original. patents were filed, Vical. Uh they they abandoned the RNA because. they couldn't make it.

Uh. and. uh. they turned largely to this strange. discovery that we had that was a. negative control. that the RNA alone or DNA alone. was actually more effective in animal. models, mice for instance, than it was to use. the positively charged fats. This Now. people call them lipid nanoparticles, lots of fancy words around it. It was.

just positively charged fats of various. types that were mixed that bind the DNA. or the RNA and and kind of spontaneously. assemble. And a lot of work went into trying to. improve that. We did what we could in. the '90s when I was at Davis to try to. advance that technology and develop new. lipids. And we had a number of them get. patented and they were marketed by. Promega and others. But could never. solve the. delivery in vivo.

But this group up in University of. British Columbia that had been banging. away at this kind of related liposome. tech for years and years even before you. know, I had known anything about it. Uh. were the ones that kind of came up with. the magic sauce that uh. is used essentially by both the Moderna. and Pfizer products. And that's the. stuff that we've all been exposed to. those that have taken it.

So when you were first experimenting you. said the it couldn't be localized. So. meaning that in the injection site it. was supposed to be there and then your. body was supposed to produce antibodies. because of the injection. Yeah, and it. goes all over. But it went all over the. body. >> Yeah, it does. >> But the assertion, what they were. telling you when you got the shot. initially, was that it was not going to. leave the injection site. >> Yeah, and I and I called um my. colleagues uh. um at University of British Columbia. that I had known back in the day.

uh as I was. um grappling with whether or not to take. the product because I had to travel. And as you recall back then, forget. international travel if you weren't. jabbed. Even national travel. Yeah, you. couldn't get on an airplane. But in. Canada, it was even worse. You couldn't. get on a train. Um. yeah, so so I called uh. uh Peter and and had a chat with him and. he said that they had solved the. problems of the distribution, that now.

when you injected it, it would stay. local, it would go to the draining lymph. nodes. Uh it was much more effective and that. uh they didn't have those safety issues. anymore. So, that was one of the reasons. why I decided to go ahead. Did you ask. how they solved that problem? Yeah, yeah, I I asked in detail cuz I knew. some of the nature of the formulations. Again, I don't want to get too. technical. But uh. what what was claimed was that the. incorporation of polyethylene glycol. uh so this is, you know, you would know.

that as antifreeze. Uh but it's in the liposome world, it's. long been known as a way to create what. are known as stealth liposomes. that circulate in your body for a long. period of time and make it so that these. particles don't get inactivated by. extracellular proteins and the liver and. stuff like that. And so uh he was using. uh the the gentleman in particular is. named Peter Cullis. By the way, he is.

the one that should have got the Nobel. Prize for these products as far as I'm. concerned. Uh and um got slighted in the. pic, but Peter Cullis. said that he had, uh, they had experimented with a lot of. different structures of the fat. particles, chemical structures, so they. came up with some. that had these properties of staying. localized and then built the. formulations in ways that were similar. to what I'd done, uh, with cholesterol. and other things. But then also added.

these, uh, shorter polyethylene glycol. molecules attached with a really short. organic, you could call it fat or or. gasoline-like molecule. uh, that that put the PEG into the. liposome particle. and but it, in a way that once it got. into the body, it would fall off. And so. this is, you know, some people have the. sensation as I did with my second jab of. you know, you get it and then suddenly.

you feel tingling in the end of your. fingers or things like that. That may be. the PEG. But it was those advances in. the components. because this is these are. self-assembling particles. uh, that were used that, um, Peter. uh, and his group. Peter McColl? >> Uh, no. Peter Cullis. Uh, p i e t e r. Okay. Uh, from UBC and his group, um, built these products with, uh, in this. technology and that was they they had it.

available, uh, um, the their choice. cuz they created companies for this. I. mean, a ton of money must have been. made. Uh, because they licensed it. non-exclusively. to BioNTech and Moderna. And uh, that that's still kind of the. core tech that makes this particular. category of products work. And. so this was enough to convince you that.

they had solved that problem. Yeah, I. took his word at it. I mean, he's he's. an extremely. experienced, knowledgeable liposome. formulation expert, quite senior. He's. older than me by another decade at. least. And been doing this forever. And. he asserted that he had he had solved. the problems. And I believed him. I needed to travel. internationally. And also, there was this buzz going. around at the time.

That. if you had long COVID, which at you. know, at the time, if you think back to. then, there was a whole. cloud over even using the words long. COVID. That the idea that you would have. these long-lasting effects from getting. the infection. was controversial. And not really accepted. But partially. promoted and there was a narrative that. was, you know, in retrospect, actively.

promoted. That if you took the vaccines and you if. you had this symptom. of this chronic malaise. and. loss of stamina. I mean, you're a guy. that's it's important to you to be. physically fit. For me, it's been. important to be physically fit all my. life because I've always been a farmer. And a carpenter and and worked with my. hands and my body. And I have farm. chores. I still have farm chores every. day. And I couldn't do them.

I couldn't walk up hills. I just had. lost my stamina. I'd lost my pulmonary. function. And it wasn't getting better. And nobody, you know, nobody knew. anything about this, what was causing. it, whether it was even real. But I was. experiencing it. You know, there's there's a whole. cluster of people who say there's no. virus and there's certainly not any long. COVID. But I experienced it. And so it. was it was promoted that if you took the. jab. and you had this symptom Yeah. then it.

would kick your immune system up. You. get more of a response to the spike. antigen. And that would allow you to clear these. symptoms of long COVID. That turns out, now we have data in just fairly. recently, that in fact the opposite is true. So, this this idea of long COVID, so you. got long COVID from the actual infection. of COVID-19 before the jab. Yeah, I got. infected in. late very end of February 2020.

I was in Boston at a uh. conference on drug discovery, computational drug discovery, high. throughput stuff. Um uh very high-tech. MIT. And staying in a a little firehouse. that had been converted to a hotel right. across the street from the biotech. company where the that the initial. Boston outbreak was associated with. And I came home sick as a dog. I thought that I had uh influenza B.

cuz that was. the what the narrative was that was. circulating at the time. And uh I was just I remember laying in. bed just feeling sick as hell. Uh hard to breathe. And my wife came in, it's just been on the TV. Uh. um. COVID is circulating right there in. Boston where you were. Uh so. so that was that was pretty early on and. it hit me pretty hard. So, that would. have been um the uh Wuhan one variant.

And then there was a couple of of uh. genetic changes that occurred apparently. in Boston around that time. So, how long did this affect you? This. this long COVID? Uh I was I was sick. until I took the jab. Um you know, just not not having. stamina, just feeling. uh how many months was that? I I had never even thought about it. Many months. Yeah. And did you try anything else to.

mitigate those symptoms? >> Yeah, I did. So, uh, um, what my whole story, you know, the. whole bunch of what I did back then that. never gets discussed and that's okay. But, uh, I, you know, the kickoff was that I got. this call from Wuhan, I think. It was. from Wuhan from this guy that. uh, used to be CIA. named Michael Callahan, uh, who I'd worked with in the past and. had told me he told me with the call. that there was this virus in Wuhan, this.

coronavirus that looked like it was. going to be serious. And I ought to pay attention to it and I. ought to get a team wound up to try to. address this. So, what I'd done because this is coming off. of what I did in Zika. You know, I'm a vaccinologist at core. Uh, but, um, developing a vaccine in the. face of an outbreak. historically has taken a decade. And, uh, it just isn't a practical way.

to address an emergent infectious. disease crisis. And I had become convinced that the best. way to do that was through repurposed. drugs. So, after I get this call, I put the. team together, um, building on the. technology that I'd been working with at. USAMRIID during Zika. for uh, rapid identification of. uh, of repurposed drugs, uh, to address, uh, you know, new crisis. And, uh, this time.

we'd really taken a computational. approach. So, I used some tech out of UC San. Francisco to recreate one of the key. proteins in. uh, in SARS-CoV-2 based on the sequence. that got published from Wuhan in this. January 11th, I think. And uh 2020. And uh. um. we started doing what's called. computational docking of very, very. large uh virtual libraries using uh.

Amazon. AWS and and high throughput parallel. processing. And came up with a list of compounds. And uh then kind of screen those against. uh problems, adverse events, um that. kind of stuff. Uh more coffee, good. That's it. Uh I would, thank you. And um. And what was the first one you. >> list, I had I had this list of. compounds, and then I was sick as a dog.

And you know, what you get trained in if. you do clinical research is docs don't. um. experiment on themselves. That's like. breaking the rules. But I'm lying there so sick that I'm. just like, what the hell? What do I got. to lose? I'm probably going to die. You. know, I already at that point I'd spent. a lot of time. already looking into the virus and what. it was causing and what people were. saying it was causing. >> old were you at the time? Um let's see. I'm 66 now, so that's 60.

61, yeah. >> So you were in a high risk group. Yeah, for sure. And and I was obese. I don't. know if you noticed, but I've dropped. about 40 or 50 lb since we last met. So uh. So I started taking some of those. compounds, and one of them was uh this. drug that is normally taken for stomach. acid called famotidine. And uh I got an immediate response with. that. And uh so I also tried.

isochorcitin. That didn't seem to make so much of an. impact on me. But I experimented on myself, and uh. famotidine at higher doses. um now it's been verified to be helpful. And it was one of the first things out. of the box that people started taking. even prophylactically before we knew. about. Ivermectin and other things. And then. that went on I mean there's a whole. thread here. We could go on for an hour. about about what was done with the. repurposed drugs. I was working closely.

with the Defense Threat Reduction. Agency. And uh. Um. I managed to capture. a few hundred million dollars. and direct that towards drug repurposing. adaptive clinical trials. etc. And uh. The thing that I zoomed in on through a. collaboration with a doc up in. uh. Minnesota.

was the combination of famotidine. another anti-inflammatory called. celecoxib. and then the thing that really kicked it. in high gear was the forbidden horse. medicine. uh Ivermectin. and uh we got I managed to working with. DOD got um over a hundred million. dollars set up a contract uh. um it got managed by SAIC and we were. going to go after that using very.

cutting-edge clinical trial. um design. And uh. And remember this is the DOD. We submitted initial drug applications. for using this combination. of licensed drugs. well-known licensed drugs. and the FDA just dug in um again and. again rejected the application. so long what they said was we were going.

to have to do cell culture tests to. demonstrate the antiviral activity of. Ivermectin before they would allow us to. proceed. Uh and so in the end the DOD caved. and they dropped the Ivermectin. component and proceeded with the uh. famotidine and celecoxib which showed. some effect. >> Why were they so hesitant or what was. the resistance? I your your guess is as good as mine. I. really people think that I have. visibility into the FDA and yeah I've.

met with them and I have a background in. regulatory affairs but the policy. decisions that were made during COVID uh. and still to this day. are perplexing. I just don't understand. it. >> Ivermectin. Oh it was it was uh like a. high sin. Yeah. >> They they they deployed. uh. what do we want to call it? Propaganda, psychological warfare, nudge, everything. just like they did after you and I had. our little discussion.

Um it was it was stunning. I mean the. like after we had our chat uh. um I don't know if you remember you. asked me about what is this about uh. mass formation psychosis? Yeah. And it I. mean the use the term broke the internet. is overused. It broke the internet. Yeah. >> the search results on Google went nuts. and. >> Well because it perfectly described what. was happening. >> Oh and couldn't be it no.

it couldn't possibly describe what was. happening even though every single. person that heard it knew damn well it. did. But it was forbidden. I mean this. was forbidden because. >> hear our first discussion, please. explain mass formation psychosis. So since then I've had a a shitstorm. come at me for using the term psychosis. coupled with mass formation. I you can't. you know the the grief you think you got. a lot of grief from Spotify and from uh. Spotify was actually great. I had no. grief from them. It was from like Neil.

Young and Joni Mitchell and Oh, I I. other artists. So, you prob- then you. probably don't know the whole backstory. >> okay. Um that's we should that's fun to. dive into because it relates to the. psychological warfare domain that now. I've become a pseudo expert on. Um just in trying to understand what the. hell I experienced and what's going on. So, so Mattias Desmet, he's a friend um. at University of Ghent in Belgium, who. by the way has been pretty well.

railroaded in his university now. Not. allowed to teach his own book on the. psychological basis of totalitarianism. where which is where that book had not. come out yet, but it was uh the mass. formation hypothesis is what was the. kind of core of that book that's now. published and and widely regarded. Uh. so, so Mattias uh came Mattias is somebody. who uh as a PhD, a full professor,

had long taught uh 20th century uh. uh psychology work relating to. totalitarianism and thought uh that goes. back to Freud and beyond really all the. way back to Plato and the allegory of. the cave. And in particular, there was a number of. of philosophers in the 20th century. associated with uh trying to make sense. of Nazi Germany. and what had happened to the German. people and really all over the world. Uh.

but particularly relating to the Germans. and Mattias had been teaching this on a. regular basis. And the way he tells the story, he had. an epiphany one day that oh my god, the. thing that I've been teaching, I'm. living. It we're experiencing it. We're. experiencing this process of the. formation of masses. Um and the the you could call it crowd. psychology. So, mass formation, it's.

kind of awkward or mass formation. psychosis, which is what the term was. that was used in the initial podcast. that he gave out. So, that's why I use. that term. Uh, but you know, it's not in the the. the attack was that it's not in the. diagnostic and statistical manual. uh, for the American Psychiatric. Association. So, therefore it doesn't. exist. Uh, um, uh, but you know, all the attacks uh, but. um, the core of it is.

that when people, to make it simple, become disassociated from society and. from each other, they become extremely. vulnerable to manipulation of a variety. of different types. And a leader can come into that. environment. and uh, offer, let's to simplify it, um, offer a. solution to their pain. Because being. isolated, socially isolated, is. associated with pain. We as human beings. have a need to connect with others. It's.

a fundamental aspect of being human. It's what you do. I mean, you connect. That's That's the. essence of the Joe Rogan experience, I. think. Um, so we need to connect with others. And in. in certain situations where people are. threatened, um, and in particular in the modern era. where we have all of these things that. drive us into isolation, most notably. are electronic tools.

Uh, we become disassociated from our. community. And when that happens, we. have a strong need to become associated. with community. And a and a leader can. come into that environment and basically. say, "I have the solution to your pain, your psychological pain.". And uh, what will happen is a strange phenomena. where people will rather than building. social networks, let's say horizontally. to those around them, they'll attach to this strong leader.

And they'll get that they'll get. fulfillment for that need to belong by. this attached. attachment to that leader and following. the edicts of that leader. And this leads to this phenomena that. gives rise, you know, enables to. totalitarianism. But uh gives rise to this whole cluster. of things that Matthias described. Uh. that um. you know, he he uses the term mass.

formation. In a way that's kind of an odd. artifact of translation, I guess, from. the Dutch. Uh. it's an easier way to think of it is a. crowd formation. Um and uh. And in his uh. examination of the history of what. happened in Nazi Germany, where things people really went crazy. I. mean, mothers were turning their.

children in. Uh you know, children were being. executed on the on, you know, consequent. to mothers' testimony, which is really. strange when you think about it, just. you know, in a fundamental way. Uh. you know, we had. all of this uh. dear leader. kind of stuff. Uh. the the um uh. linkage of of the self and the soul to. this central figure and.

deriving a sense of identity and. belonging from that. That went on and and, you know, there's. still. uh. people from that generation in Germany. that. um. are still caught up in in a lot of that. That's why the German laws. uh. And um so that's that's that's the short. version. When we spoke before, I gave a. much more technical, precise uh. definition of Matthias's uh.

core thesis. Uh but. um this. once this happens, then people become. very very easily manipulated. through propaganda and a variety of. techniques that now I have a better. comprehension of. I mean, then I was. still just trying to make sense, just. like all of us, of what the heck was. going on. What's with this crazy? Uh. but now uh it's kind of. coalesced into an understanding of of.

the fact that uh modern psychology has. been weaponized. It's been intentionally weaponized in. the context of military activities in. the domain that you know, one way to. express it, the term is used. kind of term of art in military jargon. is fifth generation warfare, or you. could call it psychological warfare. And what it distinguishes the present.

from say uh. Sun Tzu. And you know, ancient propaganda has. always been part of warfare in humans. But uh we haven't had the digital world. We haven't had modern psychology. We. haven't had nudge technology. We haven't had all these tools that. allow the control of information, thought, um perception, feelings, emotions uh that have become.

commonplace. And that. you know, is is and has has. you know, this this suite of technology. and capabilities that we saw deployed on. all of us. were uh built. in a kind of a structured way largely by. UK and US leadership in the intelligence. community. as a weapon of war to counter. these uh. successful insurgencies that we keep. losing wars over.

Uh you know, Vietnam being a notable. example all the way through Afghanistan. And uh. um. So that that's why it was built uh but. then that tech um got deployed by. governments against their own citizens. And this was really launched. uh in large part. uh in the United States by a. presidential directive from Barack. Obama. I'm not making this up. Uh you.

can look it up. And by the way, the. presidential directive is still in place. that established the uh. um nudge technology units in the United. States. They were already operating in. the UK. And in the UK, it's quite. advanced. When you look at the UK. politics right now and what's going on. there with all the censorship and. everything, you know, this is no joke. We're we're barreling right to that end. point, same as Canada has. Uh. you know, we're just a little bit. behind. And uh there they you know, we have the.

benefit of the First Amendment and a. Constitution. And um you know, often on courts. But uh. there they they don't have those. obstacles and the government believes in. the UK. that once they have won an election, it's perfectly acceptable to deploy this. modern psychology and information. control technology on their own. population. And I argue that once that. Rubicon is crossed,

the idea of democracy, because the tech. is so powerful, becomes completely perverted. And we got a good hard taste of that. during COVID. What what you and I. experienced what you experienced with. Ivermectin what you experienced with uh. you know, just talking about your own. experiences. uh and the blowback that happened after. we did that little hit. Uh. um.

is is a super powerful clear case study. in understanding. this intersection of modern psychology. uh warfare technology and uh. the digital world uh and and algorithmic. control of information. the uh. creation of digital. avatars for all of us, the application. now in present of artificial.

intelligence to custom craft a messaging. uh that gets fed into our digital. domains on a regular basis in order to. you know, sell us whatever. uh but also to shape how we think. And uh to control what information we. get access to all the time. Just to give an example, my wife who. does a lot of our research for our.

Substack. was talking to me the other day. She she just gave me a couple examples. where uh. um. stories that were in corporate media in. the United States that weren't listing. certain key names or whatever. Um she. said, "I just go to the Hindustan Times. Hindustan Times is a great source for. all the stuff that we're not allowed to. see here in the United States. You're. now in an in an environment in an. information environment where you cannot.

um. uh rely. on. But we all know that. You can't rely on. corporate media, but the but the the. rules, the boundaries that are being set. up. about information are profound and are. completely distorting our ability to. uh process what's happening around us. Can I give you the example of what. actually happened? You you said in in. our example. with the blowback in Spotify. This is. documented by a.

a report out um from the house. about COVID and what happened. And that report only carries just. through to the early part of the. vaccines and then it stops. They for. some reason they didn't really want to. go down the road to the vaccines. They did talk a lot about the um. events around uh the let's say lab-leak. hypothesis. Uh which is allowed. You're You're. allowed in DC now to talk about that.

Finally. Yeah. You're still you're Well, and. >> It It was about 4 years later you were. allowed to. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. Um uh so. what was documented. was that uh the the trail of events. was that. we had our discussion. That triggered. and this is going to sound bizarre, but. this is what's documented. That. triggered Coca-Cola. Corporation. to complain to the Global Alliance for.

Responsible Media, which is created by. the World Economic Forum. It's is one of. these global aggregators that controls. advertising. The Global Alliance for Responsible. Media, which by the way had a dust-up. with uh Elon Musk and lost. and they closed it down as a nonprofit. It still exists in other ways, but as a structure that could be sued by. X, it disappeared when he. stood up against it. But Global Alliance for Responsible.

Media had a socket with Google AdSense. By the way, so they control the. advertising ecosystem, which kind of. matters to Spotify. So. Coca-Cola complains to GARM. saying this guy Rogan, you got to shut. him down. Okay? You got to put pressure. on Spotify. So Spotify gets the message from GARM. that we're going to. we're threatening to pull your. advertising.

Okay? Now, what happens between that and. your experience, I don't know. You know, it's not transparent to me what you. experienced. Uh yeah, we all remember. the um Laurel Canyon crowd saying they. were going to pull their catalogs, which. they didn't actually own, right? That. was That was another thing. And then. they they went after you uh with this uh. mashup of N-word uh historic uh events. Um you know, there was clearly a. concerted effort to take out Joe Rogan.

Uh much more than to take out Robert. Malone. And uh. so then the question comes, why the heck. would Coca-Cola. be the socket with the Global Alliance. for Responsible One of the biggest. advertisers in the world, right? Why. would Coca-Cola give a hooey about what. Joe Rogan said to Robert Malone. on you know. uh New Year's Eve. Uh. Coca-Cola is really tight with the CDC.

Coca-Cola has funded buildings at the. CDC. Coca-Cola funds the um CDC. Foundation, Foundation for the CDC, as. does Bill and Melinda Gates, as done all. the major vaccine manufacturers, etc., etc. The appearance is, I can't verify. this, that CDC. acted through its ally Coca-Cola. Why. are they allies? What's Coca-Cola got to. do with CDC? The angle there is that Coca-Cola wanted.

the CDC to get uh WHO. to not implement restrictions in. messaging about sugar use. Mhm. Okay. They didn't want those. messages. Remember, this is at the heart. of the inverted food triangle now. The. The old food triangle was the product of. sugar lobby. I mean, the sugar lobby is. incredibly powerful because this stuff. is addictive. I mean, it's it's like having the. cocaine lobby,

>> [laughter]. >> right? Well, and you know, that's an. interesting analogy because of course. the history of Coca-Cola. Right. Uh but. um so sugar's addictive. Uh the the CDC. Coca-Cola didn't want the CDC wanted the. CDC. to. influence public health policy. to avoid um uh. global positions. on the risks associated with sugar. intake because it would potentially hurt. their market share. Wouldn't you know, they're a a major globalized company.

So that's that little ecosystem that I. just described illustrates what we're. dealing with here. And the. many ways that. um. all of this kind of influence and. messaging and signaling happens in this. kind of integrated horizontally and. vertically ecosystem that we live in. right now. And one of the things that. came out of that, you'll recall, was that you were asked, as I recall,

you you gave this, you know, I I've had. a hostage video. I think that was a. close to a hostage video from you back. in the day when you were saying, "This. is what I'm going to do.". Uh it was like out on your porch or. something. Um I remember I was sitting. around a campfire in Maui quite. literally when somebody said, "Oh, Did you just see this from Rogan? And uh. as a matter of fact, I was sitting. around Gavin de Becker's uh campfire at. that time, somebody that you know. And uh. so. um the compromise was that there would.

be a little trailer. put at the bottom of that episode. And. by the way, you probably know that. episode for a long time became very hard. to find. Uh it was it was basically blacklisted. from the search engines, etc., etc. But you it carries an I think it still. does that little banner that says, you. know, you should go to the CDC if you. want the true true about COVID. And you can still find that those kinds. of banners popping up all the time on. YouTube. If you if you talk about vaccines or.

COVID vaccines, that will get if if you. pass the filters, if if YouTube will. allow that to still be up um cuz you. didn't say something, whatever it is, uh. then you'll get the little banner. Okay, that banner is pushed out by the nudge. units at the CDC. Okay, that is nudge technology. It is all around us all the time and. it's it's basically still. uh public policy consequent to the old.

Obama presidential directive that still. hasn't been rescinded. Uh you know, I love President Trump. I. think he's doing amazing things. I think. he's amazingly brave. Uh I would just mention our friend Gavin. de Becker referred to Trump the other. day when I saw Gavin in in uh. Maui. as a once-in-500-year leader. And that's that's not that's not nothing. coming from Gavin. And uh so I'm I'm a big supporter, but. the president has still left in place.

this mechanism that exists uh. that directs the federal government. to use nudge technology and related uh. what I assert is psychological warfare. technology on the American populace. All right, this is from back in, what. was it, 2015. or something like that? >> Yeah, it's it's quite early. Um, and then you had his you had Obama's. subsequent like the notorious speech at. Hoover at Stanford.

Where he talks about in order to. preserve democracy, we're going to have. basically says we're going to have to. have censorship. Right. Uh, in order to. preserve democracy or. whatever democracy is. >> for people that don't know what we're. talking We're relating to the. Smith-Mundt Act. >> The Smith-Mundt everybody focuses on. Smith-Mundt. Okay. >> Um, but as I examined Smith-Mundt and we. did an essay on this in the Substack, um, you know, like 3 years ago. Uh, cuz. that was the kind of the narrative that. was coming out in, let's say, our side.

of alternative media. Right. And uh, in my examination Smith-Mundt's impact. is a lot more limited. It has to do with. Voice of America and some other things. The broad impact wasn't quite, in my. opinion, what was believed to be of of. enabling propaganda domestically. Mhm. More specifically, um, there is a. presidential directive. that nudge technology that established a. nudge office that nudge technology shall.

be used by government. >> They don't call it a nudge office, right? >> They they I don't know. It's it's got. They've They've gone through various. iterations and I'm sorry I don't have. the latest version and it's kind of. become decentralized. >> called the Social and Behavioral Science. Team. Wikipedia says that that was. stopped in 2017 but continued under the. Trump administration under, sorry, uh, the General Services Administration's. Office of Evaluation Science. >> Well, there we go. Yeah. >> Boy. Yeah. Yeah, it's and it's kind of.

become it's been like I said, it's been. pushed out into a lot of the agencies. Mhm. Um, they don't use that that. lexicon because then it's easy to find. them. Okay, they use there's other. euphemisms they use. uh, to describe those kinds of. activities, but it's become normalized. The the weaponization of propaganda has. become normalized. >> There's the. wording from. >> Overall behavioral. interventions or nudges like the ones. implemented by OES have been found to be. effective in recent psychological.

science article. Researchers identified. several policy areas of interest example. healthcare Here we go, 2015. This is. when it was implemented. >> 2015. >> Executive order President Obama signs an. executive order requiring federal. agencies to incorporate behavioral. insights into their evaluation efforts. That's a nice way of saying use of. propaganda on the American people. >> Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And so, this this is. kind of become Thank you so much for for. pulling that up. That's super helpful. So, um, this this is.

like I said. if I can illustrate, I was on a Great. Britain News broadcast about 4 years. ago. Uh, at the time when they would, you. know, I was there was a window time. where they would have me on, but it was. sketchy. Um, and GB News was the only. one that would do it. And uh, but the rules were then that if. you were going to have somebody that was. speaking against the government. narrative, then you had to have somebody. representing the government's interests. in the same broadcast. Mhm. So, that's.

uh, implemented by basically the UK has. an active censorship organization. that controls news media. And uh, so I'm on with this guy, Great. Britain News, pinstripe, bow tie, you. know, it just uh, reeks. And um, and I'm. talking about psychological warfare and. uh, the 77th Brigade, which is part of. the British Army, which is their uh, psychological warfare unit. It's very.

open. uh, that that's the case. uh. as is the existence of of uh. um a civilian branch that they set up. and paid people to do social media in. opposition of counter narratives. that the government didn't approve of. I mean now they just under Starmer they. just censor you and send you to jail. Uh. they they just cut cut cut out the. middleman. Uh but back then they were still uh kind. of buying civilians. And so I'm talking.

about this. And uh that's that the the guy says, "Yeah, but here in the UK. um our belief is that if the government. wins the election they have the right to. govern. And that right to govern includes our. ability to use this type of technology. and we believe that it's justified to do. so. And that when that conversation. happened, frankly, I hadn't we hadn't. launched the book yet, CyWar, which is. our most recent publication. And uh uh.

and it just kind of all coalesced in my. mind that oh my god, what all these. things. Matthias's teaching about mass. formation, what I saw, what I. experienced with you, what I experienced. with the concerted attacks of the media. Um and then subsequently it's been. validated by this congressional report. that talks about, for instance, the Jira. ticket system. Jira tickets are are what. it's a system that all the software. companies use.

to track uh. glitches and. uh complaints and stuff like that. Well, the government had their own Jira ticket. system set up. to log um. information about activities of persons. that they wanted to have censored and. suppressed. And they would build these Jira tickets. with information. And so one of the. things that's out in the congressional. report was that I actually had a Jira. ticket. I was surprised that this is the. case, or maybe not surprised in. retrospect. Uh and and my personal sins.

were that I was listed as an anti-vaxxer. and a conservative. Even though you're a. vaccinologist. And a conservative, that's interesting. >> And a conservative. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. right. I mean, the stuff that's coming. out. >> That's wild. >> It's It's fascinating to query things. like Grok, even Grok. Um. uh. um. about uh certain subjects and and. you will find where they have.

algorithmically built firewalls. And and you can you can approach them. and detect them because um it will it. will act dumb, oh, you know, it'll lock up seemingly. It won't give. you that answer, or it'll talk around. the issue, et cetera, et cetera. You can. identify these things that have been. built in algorithmically. And of course, then we we had all of the disclosures, the Zuckerberg uh. oh, I'm so sorry uh apology tour that.

happened. Remember when basically he got. outed by Congress. And and the rest of. the tech bros uh and of course, the. thing that catalyzed all of that was. that Elon decided to pony up a good. chunk of change and buy. buy Twitter. Which I think is one of the. most impactful decisions that any. American citizen has ever made. Amazing. If he didn't do that, I think we would. be really screwed. Uh there's how how. can you debate that? How can you debate.

it when you look at the Twitter files. and you find out how much the government. was involved in censoring accurate. information from legitimate professors, esteemed researchers, anybody who didn't. go along with the official narrative. It's It's all coming out now in spades. And and we're dealing Now, the lovely. thing about all of this, I mean, let's. let's try to. It is morning in America, in my opinion. I mean, a lot of people. get very dark and and there's a darkness.

to the times, but. there's you know, not to push the. metaphor too far, but. there there is um new light coming in. And the fact that we can now see this. and we recognize that you and I are of a. similar generation. I mean, one of my. earliest memories was the assassination. of the president. And all of the propaganda around that, the propaganda around Vietnam War, ever. since we've just been swimming in.

information control that's gotten. increasingly sophisticated. And uh fortunately as Americans, we also kind of. have become more and more immune to. marketing and propaganda over time cuz. we've been living with it, trying to. discern what is real and what is. you know, false. Again, this is. if it's a core part of what you do for a. living, I think, is is just try to, you. know, have the conversations to be able. to get to the bottom of the [ __ ].

Uh but um that we've. we've been swimming in it and now we can. see it. We can see the the structures that, you. know, the the power of artificial. intelligence and influence mapping and. all the things that are going on in the. internet right now. that are the cutting cutting edge. technology, they're scary. because they could be weaponized against. us, but they're also super cool because we.

can now see those relationships. If you. want an example of that, look at the the. threads that are coming out on X. uh illuminating the uh networks of. affiliation associated with this latest. Epstein file release. Just mind-blowing. >> Mind-blowing. Uh. and and it is just just like you know, we can we can sit here and [ __ ] and. whine saying, "Oh, they didn't release. that and blah blah blah. This is This is. redacted." All that's true, but still.

the the impact of of that information. and we're still. getting to the bottom of it. It's. completely changed most people's. narrative of what happened. Like we had. this sort of vague understanding, you. know, but when you see in the email like. clear. evidence that they're talking about. children. In in pretty obscene ways. >> Horrifying ways. So that was the thing. that like even I when I talked to Mike. Benz about that, he was sort of.

incredulous about that. He's like. I don't think they would use children. It just doesn't make any sense if they. got caught, but it just seems like Yeah, if if Mike Benz was incredulous, that's. pretty big. I Well, I just don't think. we really knew until we saw those files. come out. And then you go, "Oh, well, you There's no denying it now." My my. position on this completely shifted. I. thought. there's probably some really sick people. that have an appetite for that, but I. hadn't seen any real evidence for it.

until these files. And now I'm like, "Oh, this is demonic. This is clearly. demonic.". >> I the Okay, so thank you for saying. that. Um. uh I'm somebody who was raised a. Christian. and went to Bible school and that kind. of stuff as a kid. And youth groups. uh and then growing up in Central Coast, California, let's say um weird in. different ways. Mhm. Uh but. uh.

the experiences that we've encountered. over the last half a dozen years. it's hard to come up with the language. to express what we're observing in the. world. other than than. the language of theology. Well, demonic. by action. So, whether or not demons. exist, if they did exist, that is how. they would behave. They would prey on. children and torture children. And there was the one where. there was a suggestion where a child was.

praying to Jesus that like there was a. joke that someone should dress up like. Jesus. I'm I Did you see that one, Johnny? >> No, I'm. I'm not I'm not watching this. >> even want to. I don't even want to. I. don't even want to. People send it to me. and I go, okay. People send it to me and. I go, okay, cuz I'm pretty for the most. part off social media. But every now and then someone will send. me something that I have to look at and. I'm like, oh my god. Yeah. And these are. these are emails back and forth. There's. one of them where Epstein says, I. enjoyed the torture video.

There's these references to pizza, a lot. of references to pizza that are 100%. some kind of a code. Yeah. And then it. brings you back to Pizzagate. Yeah. And. which was widely dismissed. You know, everybody's like, oh, this is a bunch of. cooks. Here it is. Uh she said she felt God's presence next. to her when she was in bed. She knows. that Jesus watches over her and he helps. her save he helped save her life. And.

then he writes, whoops. And then in response, Jeffrey Epstein. says, you should dress up as him when. you see her. Um. it it is. it is dark. You should dress up like. Jesus when you see her. What the [ __ ]. I and well, look at the line. >> about a little kid. >> at the line that Jesus Look at the line. above it. How do I How am I supposed to interpret, I'm coming trick?

The oh Jesus, I'm coming trick. >> [sighs]. >> It's just the the whole thing. but so so we see this darkness. It. involves uh. leaders in academe, in science, in industry, in politics. >> Yeah. And and it it just, you know, I I. remember point in this. arc of the last 6 years.

where a film crew came onto my farm. and wanted to shoot some segments. And they were talking this and frankly, I thought it was crazy talk. Um I kind. of smiled and and. you know, tried to be civil and nice. Not contradict them. Uh. uh. about the New World Order. And um. uh. and then. along comes, you know, then my wife one.

day says, "Hey, you ought to look at. this book from Klaus Schwab.". It's called the New World Order. >> [laughter]. >> Like, what? I mean, he was. just saying it out loud. >> Yeah. I mean, the World Economic Forum. had those ads where they were saying, "You will own nothing and you will be. happy.". >> Yeah. And and it goes back to the current King. of England was the guy that kind of. launched that. He was the first one to. be really talking about that that you.

can if you you can go use your use your. favorite AI and track it down yourself. Uh I prefer not to use Google these days. to try to find stuff, but. it. it we see. vertical after vertical after vertical. after vertical where um information has. been crafted and manipulated. And the. same tools of uh. of de-legitimization. of uh. um.

a promotion of uh these messages. uh that you are a conspiracy theorist or. uh um. that you are controlled opposition is. another favorite one. A lot of this was. pioneered in the '60s by the FBI against. the various protest movements, and you. can go back and track that. Okay, the. the the narrative of uh. um. uh. uh being a a collaborator. uh surreptitiously is called.

bad-jacketing. Uh and and it has its own its whole. language and and protocols for how to do. this to people to divide movements. We're We're We're in this. I mean, in a way, it's kind of a. glorious moment where you we're having. uh. a huge amount of social. uh. pressures coming together in this moment. in time that you and I happen to live.

in. How fantastic is that? To be at a. point in time where there is so much. change, there's so much social. interaction and pressure and competition. between these different philosophies, and and it we're swimming in it. I from. as as somebody writes on a daily basis. these essays on Substack cuz that's how. I make my living now cuz I can't do what. I used to do. Uh. um it's it's you're kidding the candy. shop. There There's so much corruption.

There's so much falsehood being. promoted. There's so much of this uh. manipulation. of of reality. And so, if if you're in the business of. of trying to help people to make sense. out of that, which is kind of what I do. now for a living, >> uh it's you know, I wake up every. morning people I get the feedback, "How. do you come up with all these ideas? I'm. like, how do you not? All you got to do is keep your eyes.

open. Yeah, it's not hard to search. anymore. So, so you talked about. Ivermectin. I mean, the Ivermectin story. is is still ongoing. There was an announcement the other day. from HHS that they are launching new. initiatives to investigate the use of. Ivermectin in cancer. And there was immediate blowback uh. along the lines of oncologists are. outraged. You know, the narrative is uh. Bobby you know, not saying this. explicitly, but basically Bobby Kennedy.

is at it once again promoting falsehoods. and conspiracy theories and it's going. to, you know, we're all going to die. because uh because scientists are going. to investigate the use of Ivermectin and. and other drugs. >> why Ivermectin? So, this is the this is. the core question and this is one of the. things that puzzled me to no end. I understood that they were upset that I. had gotten better without the use of the. vaccine. That I was a popular person,

that I was a famous person and I made a. video about a canceled show. Dave. Chappelle and I were supposed to do a. show and I made that video to let. everyone know that I couldn't do the. show because I had COVID. I had no idea. it was going to be even controversial. But. I listed a bunch of things that I took. >> And the [ __ ] hit the fan. >> I talked about IV vitamins. I talked. about monoclonal antibodies. I talked. about. >> Which were allowed. prednisone. Yeah, all these things that I talked about,

Z-Pak. I talked about all these. different things that I took. There was no mention of any of those. things. There was only Ivermectin. And. that's what really puzzled me. I was. like, this is fascinating because I. listed a bunch of different things, but. there was no demonization of monoclonal. antibodies, but they did make them much. harder to get and eventually pulled. them. >> It's true. I have a friend and his friend was in. the hospital and they wouldn't. administer monoclonal antibodies once he.

got into the hospital. They wouldn't. allow him to have them. >> What went on in the hospitals is a whole. 'nother thing. But you mentioned crazy. >> But so. so the the why? The why that one. medication. >> two. threads that I can pull on at all. is that ivermectin. is a miracle drug. I mean, Nobel Prize, right? >> Right. Uh we don't understand completely. how it works. In this case, it doesn't seem to be. working as an antiviral. It seems to be. working as an immuno immunostimulant.

Pro-inflammatory. or or pro-immune response in some way. that's subtle. Uh because it has this broad spectrum of. activity against things that have a an. immune response component in. controlling. But it's off patent. Right. They don't. understand it. It's off patent and it it. the response is as if it represents a. significant threat. to some business interests. It's hard to.

discern that. And you mentioned Z-Pak. So, that's another fascinating one. And. to say that it was only ivermectin. Ivermectin was the most prominent, but. they're actually effective in shutting. down. uh the the Z-Pak. um uh the use of hydroxychloroquine. And hydroxychloroquine has a fascinating. story. When you mention Z-Pak, you're. talking about Zelenko. And Zev was the one that wrote the. letter to the president. saying, "Hey, here's this data and this.

information. about this drug. that is off patent. Um we have a huge uh portfolio. of experience in using it. Um millions and millions of doses. It's. safe in pregnancy. Uh what's not to like here? In In the. story of that is is a fascinating. microcosm. Cuz it goes back to Ralph Baric. Ralph Baric had published that um back.

years ago when you know, he's he's kind. of the guru of coronaviruses and a good. case can be made that he had his fingers. all over the engineering of this. particular virus. Uh so. he had published. that this drug was effective against. coronaviruses. And Zev. uh Zelenko, who's passed away now. um uh got engaged in trying to find some. way to help his patients in New York.

with uh recovering from COVID. and uh treating COVID. And he went back, did a deep dive into. into Baric's work. pulled out this drug, hydroxychloroquine. that had been recommended wrote to the. president about it. Start he got. clinical experience with it. Um and you know, caveat um uh Mickey. Willis is doing a uh. bio. uh on Zev now. Um and I'm involved in.

that, so conflict of interest. But uh. he was the one that pulled it out. sent the letter to the president. with his clinical experience. President tasked Peter Navarro. with sourcing the drug for the and and. Peter, you know, economist, went to. town. I remember uh the company I was. working with all came at the time. getting a call from Peter. Can you come. up with some way to make more of this. drug here domestically? We want to source it so we have enough.

doses for everybody. And then I think it was Lancet published. this paper. that had totally made up data. that trashed the drug. Said that it's toxic, doesn't work, blah. blah blah blah blah. It was all fake. Okay? They pulled the paper when it. became revealed that it was based on. non-existent data, that it was more. propaganda published in one of the top. medical journals in the United States. But by that time, it was completely. crushed. So, they didn't have to go. after Z-Stack. They'd already killed.

Z-Stack. Ivermectin, though, that was a new. threat. And one of the reasons why it. was a threat was there was a um. meta-analysis that had been done at the. Cochrane. So, the Cochrane Institute in the UK is. like, you know, the holy grail for analysis of drugs uh. and biologics. And uh this process of meta-analysis, they kind of they kind of wrote the. rules for how to do it.

And they had done an analysis that. showed that Ivermectin was quite. effective. Uh and um then something happened. And uh there was some influence exerted. And suddenly that meta-analysis got. quenched. It got squashed. Um. there were two investigators. that uh were involved in building that. Um one kind of went underground and and.

got a big grant and carried on as an. academic. The other one got so pissed. off that she created this organization. called the World Council for Health. That's Tess Lawrie. And uh she really objected to what. happened. But Ivermectin. you know, there was a signal there. There was a clear signal there. There. was data supporting that signal. And. then something happened to cause that. meta-analysis to be restructured and.

certain studies that were showing how. effective it was to be thrown out. And. then the suppression of the data coming. out of India. You remember that? >> Mhm. Uh Uttar Pradesh. And and Uttar. Pradesh and and uh. and it I guess it had kind of it's like. the cat was out of the bag. And they had trouble putting it back in. So, they just. my sense is they turned up the amplitude. on the on the uh propaganda and the. censorship in order to try to overcome.

this. And and I'm pretty sure. remember who was it that held the. original patent? Merck. Now, I was involved um as an observer on. behalf of of Ditra. to the active trials that were going on. under the Foundation for NIH, which is. sponsored insignificantly by Merck. And which is now headed up by the former. head of Merck vaccines, Julie. Gerberding. Uh Bobby can't get her out. It's the.

rules. Uh and they were running these clinical. trials, including the clinical trial. that essentially by tweaking the dosing, etc. made it so that they came up with a. result suggesting that Ivermectin was. not effective. There There was a whole lot of. manipulation in the why part. Still the best explanation I've heard is. that it had a lot to do with uh. the risk that if there was an effective.

countermeasure, then the utilization of. the PREP Act. and the emergency countermeasures. uh. um. uh to a process. to enable fast-tracking of these. vaccines. uh using this new technology. uh would no longer be valid. Cuz those are the rules. Is if there's. an existing countermeasure, then you. can't uh.

implement. those clauses. So, it was all about. emergency use authorization. >> It it's the I don't know that that's the. case. It's It is. >> It only thing that makes sense when you. see how much profit they made. Which. which was enormous. >> Enormous. So, it was effective. And all. that propaganda, regardless of how much. exposed them and exposed their methods, they made hundreds of billions of. dollars. >> Uh it Well, and and that that the. ugliest part of all of this. I mean, people the big big picture when.

I talk to people. that are still kind of on the fence. trying to make sense out of it, you. know, there's still a lot of those folks. out there. The the thing that kind of gets into. their brain. is the greatest upward transfer of. wealth in modern history. occurred during COVID. Yeah. It wasn't. just the vaccines. It was the whole. enterprise. With the lockdowns. Lockdowns, all the.

the what was done to small businesses, what was done uh to the economy, the. stimulus packages, they're still digging. out of all of that fraud. Uh it it, you know, in retrospect. uh. for for average folks. uh that are just trying to put food on. the table and pay their rent. uh to look at in retrospect what was. you know, quite literally done to them.

The middle class was hollowed out in. like on hyper speed. Uh this. So, yeah, I'm still pissed off about. this. >> [laughter]. >> Well, you should be. The thing is not enough people are, and. so many people let it go. And part of. the reason why not enough people are. pissed off about it is because they took. the vaccine and they want to justify. their decision. And you will talk to a lot of people. that make this blanket claim the vaccine.

saved millions of lives. And they'll. just say that. Yeah, and because when. you say that's the propaganda along with. fall with safe and effective, that was a. promoted narrative and that was by the. way the rationale given by the Nobel. Prize Committee to award to Karikó and. Weissman. was that these products, which they had. the thesis is they had been playing the. central role. I disagree. I think Peter. Cullis is the one that should have got. it if you're going to give it for. if you're going to give it for these. vaccines, it was Peter Cullis and his.

team at UBC that really was the enabling. tech. But be that as it may, the decision's. made and the committee said basically. uh. you know, millions of lives have been. saved. And by giving this Nobel at this time, we are we hope that it will promote more. people to accept this product. That that. was explicitly the logic given at the. time. And that reflects what was really a. thrust vector. Joe, I I've.

you know, it's what a bizarre world. since we met. Very. And and so I've been. sucked into uh. to call it the center right of Europe is. a little bit of a misnomer because. they're all socialists as far as I'm. concerned, Giorgia Meloni and everybody. else. But you know, compared to the far. left, uh they're labeled as neo-Nazis. But I've been traveling to Europe, interacting with these people. You think it was bad for us? The European Union, the UK, and the.

Canada were order magnitude worse. That we we we should be so grateful that. we live in this country at this time and. that we still have something like a. functioning constitution with a first. and second amendment. Uh look at the poor suckers in Australia. and New Zealand. Yeah. Uh you know, it. reminds yourself it could be a heck of a. lot worse here. And it has been a heck. of a lot worse in in Europe. I've got.

buddies in Romania. in the leading uh. alternative party, you know, calling it center right, let's. say, but um. uh. that uh. you know, recently, I think it was the. vice president who came out and said. specifically that that last election was. stolen. It was in in Romania. Georgescu, uh they. tried to put in jail and the logic was. that uh I think it was TikTok supporting. his campaign had been sponsored by the. Russians. It was the same game that they.

played against Trump. of Russian collusion. They played that. same book. in Romania successfully. But in the. European Union environment under the. European Council, they they don't you. know, they ain't got a constitution. And they can just step right in and and. throw you in jail, inactivate your. candidacy, do whatever if you represent. a populist threat to the existing.

structure. We talk about the deep state. But it's it it doesn't you know, yeah, it's a problem here. But and and thank. Mike Benz I defer to as as a notable. expert in that space. But uh it's it's a. lot worse in Europe and Australia and. Canada and the UK and uh I think. you know, we're. we're in a. in a perilous time here in the United. States where.

you know, we have the midterm coming up. But. but people like Bobby. are making progress. And these dissident physicians that have. risked so many things. uh and I'm just one, you know, people I. hear people saying, "Oh, Robert Robert, they've been so mean to you." And I'm. like, "Come on, guys. Um you think they've been mean to me, then look at what they did to Bobby. And then if if you know, and then look I. don't have a nick out of my ear.

You know, look at what they did to. Trump. What they did to me is just I'm I'm. nobody compared to that, and they're. willing to deploy that kind of. capability against me. Uh think about what's really going on at. the higher levels where where the big. games are being played. And. uh. you know, at least we can see it now. At least we have for those of us that. have our eyes open. We have some ability to be aware, but.

what what I've spent the last 2 years. mostly trying to convince people about. I hardly ever talk about RNA. I sit Oh, I Joe, I got to give a caveat. Um forgive me. Um. the opinions I'm expressing here are my. own and not those of the US government, the CDC, or the ACIP. There, I said it. Okay. Um but you know, we we're. in a moment where we're seeing.

this how the levers, the gears of how. all this works. Give you an example. Tomorrow, Friday, February 13th, what could possibly go wrong? Uh um hopefully my plane flight out of. here works okay. And they don't have a drone attack or. something, right? Um so, tomorrow. there's a lawsuit. uh filed on behalf of the American. Academy of Pediat- Pediatrics.

that seeks to shut down the Advisory. Committee on Immunization Practices. and uh the changes that Bobby has. implemented there. Uh and uh force all of that to go back. to the way things were when it was. functionally controlled by the. professional societies and particularly. the American Academy of Pediatrics. They They They We talk about this, you. know, propaganda and weaponization and. and uh lawfare and those things and we.

talk about it as if it only happened in. the last administration. It's It's still ongoing all the time. And it is going to go. big time if if the house turns, which I think it probably will. I mean, there's a good chance that. They've already drawn up articles of. impeachment against Secretary Kennedy. They're talking about articles of. impeachment against President Trump. We're about to go into another 2 years. of stagnation. uh and and um you know, functional.

uh what do we call it? We can't call it. civil war. Um. uh. you know, um. war by other means. uh is is where we're heading right now. But at this moment, uh. I'm seeing. major movement. You know, Kennedy is. doing great stuff. The president is. doing great stuff. We're seeing a. transformation. in America's global reach.

Uh totally restructuring global. politics. And on the health side, the Make America Healthy Again movement, you know, there's there's some pushback. against that and a heck of a lot of. propaganda being deployed against it. Well, it's this old quote that. seems sort of abstract for most people. most of the time, but rings kind of. true, but you're finding it true more. and more. Money is the root of all evil. Uh profound. A simple but profound.

Yeah. >> I mean, this is the the COVID thing with. Ivermectin and alternative medications, off-label medications. Why? Money. I think it also has to do with control. Right. >> I think there's. >> more money, more access to money. >> it's it's it's money and power in my. mind. But power They don't want power. without money. They want They want to benefit from that. power. I I believe for the likes of. Larry Fink and Bill Gates, I mean, they. can't spend all that they have. Right.

>> It's a marker. It's a It's uh like. chips. You're stacking up exactly. >> Right. They're scoring in a video game. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And And But also captured by. their past actions and constantly trying. to obfuscate from all the things that. they have done in the past that could be. like if you just went into Bill Gates's. stuff that he did in Africa. Oh. Giving children polio with that polio. vaccine that was from the AP news.

>> and India. Yeah. I mean, he's kind of. banned from India. Uh the. Yeah, so I don't get it. I don't get. where these people live. I I'm I'm. happy. You know, as far as I'm concerned, I. could walk away from all this stuff. It's just kind of a sense of obligation. of What are you going to do when you're. 66? I have this opportunity to impact in. a positive way on the world on my way. out the door. Uh who wouldn't take it? Well, I guess a lot of people wouldn't.

But I don't have a need to have power. I have thank God for my Substack. subscribers. I have all all that I need. My wife is happy. My horses are fed. My. farm is paid off. It's It's you know, it's And I have the. luxury of doing good works. And that's enough. I don't I don't get. this this global power. thrust and hunger.

>> what you do. That's not your thing. But, if you were a politician or you were. some megalomaniacal. billionaire sort of business character. that just wants to dominate and was. involved in a bunch of antitrust. lawsuits in the past, that would be what. you. >> Not that we're naming any names. Not. that we're we're naming any names that. bribed off multimedia corporations to. the tune of 300 plus million dollars so. that they wouldn't write bad stories. about him. >> Or or uh owns, you know, functionally. owns the World Health Organization.

Right. And a giant chunk of American. farmland for was for a while trying to. put that push that fake meat [ __ ] on. everybody And the company. >> dropped off a cliff. >> Yeah. And yeah, so this the business. models aren't working out so good for. the globalists, are they? I think a lot. of it is because of information that's. available now. Yeah. And you can't. control like. one of the things that did happen during. COVID is. these places like CNN, people stopped. going to for information. They don't believe them anymore. There's.

just too much [ __ ] and no one got in. trouble for spreading that [ __ ]. There was no corrections, no redactions, no. no apologies. >> Yeah. And so. >> People now, more than ever in my. lifetime, mistrust mainstream media. And. polls show that. That polls show that. the trust of mainstream media is at an. all-time low. For good reason. They did. it to themselves. They prostituted. themselves out to the pharmaceutical. drug companies. They had to say what. they had to say on television. People. knew what they were saying was. incorrect. And now no one trusts them.

So, to this thread, uh about 4 years ago, I I read a uh. report from the Trusted News Initiative. You remember the TNI? >> Yeah. >> It was launched by the BBC Right. >> uh to counter Russian disinformation. and then repurposed to counter vaccine. disinformation. Uh and they and I read this report about. I'd gone on your show. Mhm. So, I was a. little bit of a fan. Uh forgive me.

Uh and um. so, I'm reading this report and they're. talking about threats to the industry. Because T and I is basically another. trade organization. It's another guild. Mhm. Uh it's a global uh major media. guild. And uh so, they're they're doing this. internal analysis and reporting and and. they're talking about the risk factors. that they face. And they had a whole great big section. on Joe Rogan. Joe Rogan represents uh. that that was that was.

their. uh threat. That that was the major. threat to their business model is you. and what you represent. You as a metaphor. for this new information economy. And by God, they called it right. It's it's And And when I this again, this has been part of my journey. When I. realized. what I was experiencing and what it. meant to come on your show and have that.

um. event occur. which what By the way, blew up my. subscribers on Substack. Thank you so. much. >> Congratulations. I still get a wave. every year about in the in the month. following So, January, I get a big bump. in revenue because. >> our subscribers on Spotify, too. During. the heat of it, we gained in 1 month, we. gained 2 million subscribers. I had. >> Yeah, I heard that now. I heard. >> had Oh, yeah, please. Share. >> What is the. What's the Spotify subscribers? I never.

even I know YouTube is over 20. 20 million. What is Spotify at? So, while he's looking that up, I had. this bizarre experience. You know, I'm. just an old gray-haired guy with a with, you know, I'm about to have my 47th. wedding anniversary. >> Congratulations. >> Thank you. Um I'm proud of it. Um uh. I would have 20-year-olds come up in the. street and fist-bump me. I'm like, >> [laughter]. >> "What the hell?". Yeah, well, they don't have a. representative. I mean, they don't see.

anyone. >> All males. >> Yes, males. Those males don't have. anybody in mainstream news that. represents anything that resembles them. I mean, I know I'm much older than them, but I never went down this path of decay. and weirdness that a lot of adult males. go into corporate business and industry. and they become something unrecognizable. to these young men who have freedom in. life and they're being suppressed and. they're being told that they're toxic. That was a zinger, right there.

>> Yeah. Young men that have freedom in. life. >> Yeah. >> And then they compromised themselves. >> want to be what their dad is. They don't. want to be what their uncle is. They. don't want to be these people that they. work for. They're like, "What is this. [ __ ] [ __ ] life? I don't want. that. I know I'm being lied to. I know. the news is full of [ __ ] and I know that. this one guy who is. also a cage fighting commentator and a. comedian and doesn't have to lie. Like, I'm not being I don't have a boss,

really. I mean, Spotify promotes the. show, they put the show out. We're in. partnership with them, but there's no. one telling me what to do, which is why. you're here right now. Cuz there's no. one. I don't have a conversation with no one. I literally like reach out to my guy and. say, "Hey, contact. Contact Mr. Malone and let's get him. back on.". >> All I know All I know is I got a message. uh from through X. Yeah. Uh saying, "Joe. Rogan, do you want to come on?".

>> That was actually me. >> [laughter]. >> That message is me, which I rarely use. those things, but I was trying to figure. out how to contact you. So, I reached. out to you there and then I sent it to. my guy and he takes care of it. Like, that's it. There's no one else. There's. no one involved [clears throat] in and. that, which. you could still be you that way. As soon. as you get involved in enormous groups. of humans and a bunch of board, you have. to sit down at a a table with other. executives, you have to make decisions. based on the profitability of the.

company and shareholders and stuff. I. have none of that. It's a skeleton crew. So, as I look back, you know, the question. why were you able to do this, Malone? Um why were you able to you know, oh you. were so brave, Dr. Malone. I I could. Well, Robert Malone, that name became. like a pejorative. It became like, oh. yeah, that Malone guy. Yeah, it's it's. all weaponized. Yeah. But but then on. the other side, you know, I tour. I do.

these rallies and stuff like this and. you know, my wife it really makes my wife nervous. I I'm. the. middle-aged women come up to me and they. want to have selfies. Uh and and I get. this oh, Dr. Malone, you were so brave, you're such a hero kind of stuff, which. I frankly find a little embarrassing. I. mean, it's sweet, but um yeah, there's a. lot of heroes. Really? >> Why why why why was it Yeah, yeah, the. guys that that, you know, um defend the.

nation. Right. Uh. um but why was able to speak? I think a big part of it was I had no. debt. Um I wasn't beholden to anybody. Right. And uh like you say, I'd been. decade being a consultant, free-living. consultant. And it gotten under my skin. I've always been independent, you know, farmer, carpenter kind of stuff. Uh and. um that's I guess been part of my. problem is I just don't.

fit in in corporate life. I I can't suck. up to people and it's just not in me. Well, it's a very unhealthy environment. for anybody to get sucked into that. bizarre group think. It's just Good word. Um yeah, so so. yeah, so so uh. the this decentralized subscriber base. model. the the epiphany was, and I'm being. quite sincere, you know, it was one of those moments my.

wife and I looked at each other and we. said, "What the hell are we going to do. now?". Um our consulting business is shot. Nobody wants to talk to me. I've been. delegitimized. They say I don't know. what I know, I haven't done what I've. done. Uh and this has been promoted by all the. top liberal. publications in the world. >> Yeah. And uh so so I said, "Okay, Rogan. built this thing. day after day, week after week for. years. He just stayed on it and doing.

it, and we can do that, too. We can. bring that kind of work ethic. into our world.". Steve Kirsch had told me you ought to. get on Spotify, and we will We took it. on seriously. We published thousands of. essays now, almost every day. It's, you know, for Substack. >> Substack. What did I say? Substack. I. apologize. Yeah, I apologize. Um and and. so we just work at it again and again. and again trying to put out content. And. we're we're shadowbanned and. small-roomed on X in a serious way. Uh.

you know, we got 1.3 million. subscribers, of which uh you know, all. the time I get feedback, "I never see. your stuff." Uh well, it's algorithmic. Whatever it is, you know, and you can. ask Rock about Robert Malone on and you. know, you get back um. uh you know, I'm a I'm a controversial. figure. Uh but. you know, not whining. Uh. and so we have we have a lot of.

subscribers, but we just have this core. of paid subscribers. And they send in their five bucks a. month. And uh. it's all we need. And it totally sets us. free. We We can talk about whatever we want. And yeah, now that I'm pseudo government. employee, I'm a special government. employee without pay. Boy, that's like the worst of both. worlds. Um cuz cuz there's I have the. the truth is.

um I have. guardrails. that that constrain me in a way that I. didn't used to be constrained uh for. talking about some things. You know, I I have to uh. live in this world. I interface with uh. the secretary and and with the deputy. chief of staff and other people. And now. I'm working with the State Department. more. Uh and um so you know, I have to I have. to. be more mindful. What is your function? Like what what do you do over there? At.

State or. >> Yeah, both. When you're working for the. government? >> Like how do they use your services? So, um the special government employee. category is a designation from the. executive branch. It's the one that Elon had. I like to say, I'm in the same category. as Elon was, only without all the money. Um uh so uh he was a SGE without pay. I'm an SGE without pay. And uh because I serve on the Advisory.

Committee on Immunization Practices at. the CDC. which is this uh they call it It's a. FACA committee, Federal Advisory. Committee Act that advises the director. of the CDC. That's its only job. On. vaccine policy. Okay? Um so I'm the vice chair, which is. largely honorary. What that means is. that if the chair isn't there I draw the. short straw and I have to chair those. bloody meetings. Like the last one for. hepatitis B birth dose, which was uh. just a. a slugfest.

Ugly. The worst. meeting I've ever had to adjudicate my. entire life. Um but for the most part I sit on the. subcommittees. I sit on the COVID. working group subcommittee. Um I'm not supposed to talk about the. next meeting. I was told to uh. um. uh 2 days ago. Uh so uh that's one of my my guardrails. Uh. but uh stay tuned uh for what is going. to come down if the AAP lawsuit doesn't.

prevail and we're allowed to actually. have the meeting. Uh but so that's that. I'm also the chair of the influenza. working group. Uh stay tuned for that. Uh and now I am. So and I from time to time the secretary. asked me to help him sort out some. issue. You know, I'll get a phone call. I once got a phone call on um. on the Big Island. Uh I did this recent. series of rallies to try to um what you.

know. to recap the whole reason why that we. did that first hit. was to try to publicize the Stop the. Mandates rally in DC. That was the That was the subtext for. that as you recall and I forgot to even. mention it. We had to go back in to to. do another shoot for that. Remember? I'm. still fighting that same battle of. trying to stop these mandated vaccines. So I'm sitting there in Hawaii. I'm going to another one of these. rallies. I get a call out of the blue. from one of Bobby's people.

And they want some advice about a topic. having to do with the decision he has to. make about spending money on another. uh biodefense initiative. Um so I get. that kind of stuff. Uh he called me soon after he was. confirmed to get my opinion about what. was going on in the chicken industry. and all the slaughter that was happening. for bird flu. And I told him this. doesn't make sense. It's not good. policy. There's no way you can get rid. of bird flu doing this. It's in the wild. bird populations and this is just.

nonsensical what they're doing. Why do. you think they did that? Okay, so that's. that's interesting. That now we drive. into. a kind of public health and vaccinology. Uh you're asking the why. Yeah. And it's. been a long-standing policy. >> millions of chickens, right? >> They do it every time. Every time there's a bird flu. Yeah, it's it's in in any other outbreak. So. right now in Spain, I just wrote an. essay about this. It was the maybe the.

biggest reveal on what's going on in. Spain right now. There's a Spanish research lab that's. been collaborating with the USDA. that is investigating. swine fever virus. And they're actually. doing gain-of-function research on swine. fever virus. Swine fever virus, African. swine fever virus, kills pigs like. crazy. Um and already China has locked down and. will not accept Spanish pork. And it is. a lab leak.

Real. >> Yeah, and there was a bunch of dead hogs. last November around this facility and. now it's the the Spanish and the. European Union are. are. you know, blowing a circuit over this. Um because uh. um it's really compromised the Spanish. pork industry. So So this kind of stuff, when when this happens, the the reaction is we just have to kill. all of them. We have to kill all the. potential carriers. And this has been.

the wisdom, quote, uh. of in in this kind of. uh. um. agrarian. animal husbandry world for a long time. in the context in particular of factory. farming. So the logic is that if you were to. vaccinate these birds. with a leaky vaccine, which you know, COVID was a leaky vaccine, influenza is.

a leaky vaccine. If you give the birds a. leaky vaccine, what you'll get out of. that Fair answer. is precisely. vaccine-resistant flu. Okay? And so, we. we have no choice. has been the logic. But to extern you. know, like the ostriches in Canada, you. remember that story? That was shocking. Yeah. Okay, there was no logic behind. that. It's it's gone, it's become. entrenched as policy, as kind of this. reflexive knee-jerk thing that if we. have an outbreak, what we do is we kill.

Because we can't control the virus, and. the things that we could do to control. the virus aren't really going to control. it, and it's actually going to make. things worse. Is there any logic to. that? Well, uh. we we can argue at the margins. We can. argue at the margins, but when you got. something that if you had something that. didn't have a natural reservoir, uh. then then you can make the case. that that you could eliminate it in that. geographic population and keep it from.

spreading outside. But when you have a natural reservoir, like. >> Explain that. Uh. >> Explain the natural reservoir. Okay, in. the case of avian influenza, um. waterfowl and migratory birds. uh. are amazing uh vectors for carrying and. propagating influenza. And influenza. survives in water for a very long period. of time. And so, you got ducks and geese.

traveling. north to south. all over. um. every continent. that are susceptible to infection by. avian influenza, and all the other. migratory birds. But in particular, the waterfowl. Uh, galliformes, my wife would uh um. rap me on the head if I didn't use the. right term. Uh, so she's a avian specialist. So, uh. So, these these birds uh carry the flu.

and a number of them are. relatively resistant. They've been. subjected to avian influenza for. centuries or millennia. And uh sometimes you'll get a variant. come out that'll wipe out a whole bunch. of birds. Uh, West Nile virus in crows is a great. example. And now you have crow populations coming. back that are resistant to West Nile. We. haven't got rid of West Nile. We've just bred more resistant birds. That's kind of, you know, that's Bret. Weinstein's space, right? That's.

evolution. It's magical. Uh, and so you. if you have a natural animal reservoir. uh like the ticks and Lyme and. uh. and deer. Mhm. What are you going to do? Exterminate. all the deer? Uh, no, that's not practical. Um Mao tried to exterminate the birds. because of the thesis that they were. eating up all the spare grain and.

compromising availability of food to the. populace, right? And what happened? Major ecological catastrophe. You can't eliminate the birds. You can't. go and kill all the waterfowl. That would just be. ecologically insane. But, you know, sometimes we do insane. things. And in the case of avian influenza it's. there. It's endemic. It's in all that. migratory waterfowl. They poop an. amazing amount of influenza. It gets in.

the water supply. The water supply goes. everywhere. Um they, you know, small. birds are interacting with I don't know. if you've ever been around a chicken. barn uh or turkey barns. Okay, yeah, there's there's chickens and then. there's commercial chicken production, right? Um, so so these operations are. like Petri dishes for bad stuff. happening. And the only way you can interfere with. that, and by the way, the Amish are. starting to do it, is put something in. the water supply. And what the Amish are using is is a.

compound called hypochlorous acid. And it's it's stopping these things and. it's stopping the E. coli and a lot of. other stuff, but the US that's another. problem. Is is, you know, when you have. these. the momentum of these large government. agencies with their consensus about the. way things are done. Uh, you know, there's a saying that uh, the only time the FDA ever changes is if. somebody in a key position.

retires or passes away. They they kind of get entrenched in this. is how we do things. We we kill. chickens. If we have avian influenza. come out, we kill chicken barns. The and. this is the the beauty of Secretary. Kennedy coming in. being uh, kind of not invested. in the way things are and the way we do. things. And being willing to ask the questions, but does this really make sense? Um, and uh, that has been heresy. It's.

obviously is still heresy to do that. To. ask those questions, to to you know, have the president say we need to. restructure the vaccine schedule. Oh my. god, the sky is falling, kids are going. to die left and right, there's going to. be death on the street because we ended. the thimerosal in multi-dose influenza. vials. Um, this this kind of. catastrophic thinking, but Kennedy has. and the president have the courage. to question these narratives, these.

long-held standing beliefs. In the case. of the bird flu, you know, he he called. me up. I said, "Bobby, I don't think. this makes sense. I think that what we. really need to do is we need to breed. resistant chickens. And the way we breed. resistant chickens and by the way, we've. we've written about this also in our. Substack, there are in in the domain of. chicken cultivars and this. you you have chickens, you know, there. are people that are just freaks about. chickens. >> Yeah. Uh and and all of these but.

because of that we have this huge. repository of different cultivars of. chickens. Uh you know, we could say they were all. generated through gain of function. research, the old school way. Uh and um and a number of those are. relatively resistant to bird flu. Well, in a logical world. you would have Tysons. and you know, maybe the government has. to incentivize this. It shouldn't have. to. You would have Tysons in there. saying, "Well, guys what we need is a. bird flu resistant chicken. Let's get on.

it." Okay? Um and that is essentially. the position that the secretary took as. is this policy of just extremely. aggressive mass culling is not producing. the outcome that we want. It has never. produced the outcome that we want. It. will never eliminate bird flu because it. has an endemic reservoir and we've got. to think different. And and now that's starting to percolate. through the system and there is more.

research into alternative strategies. including. the possibility of various uh. prophylactic interventions in in feed. and in water. Uh [snorts] that's you know, and in a. lot of these chicken houses mist. As. you'll recall, they have the misters cuz. they got to control the temperatures. So, they are set up with uh misters and. that can also be a way to deliver things. that are non-toxic like HOCL that can um. knock out these viruses and uh.

and uh E. coli and other things that. cause reduced growth and and loss of of. weight. in chickens which is the metric that. Tyson's and those guys is food. conversion. That's the metric they all. pray to. You know, there's some different we can. we can think differently and we have. been locked into. um. you know, consensus that has emerged. over decades. based on old ways of thinking.

And the same people are in charge so. they don't want to change. And and they. kind of all often kind of have these. lineages where they're passing power on. to the people that they've mentored. Um so that's that's my HHS world and. then the State Department world is a new. thing that's come in. I have a. I'm I'm starting to support the group. under Secretary Rubio that's responsible. for uh. the various treaties having to do with.

uh. arms containment and in particular the. bioweapons convention. So this morning I. got up early. and you know, there was. so. um honest to God, I don't want to pump. you up too much. I mean, you might get. an ego or something but. so I say to the state they say, "Robert, we want you to go to Geneva to give this. talk on the use of AI for monitoring. bioweapons threats because we have no.

way of monitoring compliance with the. bioweapons convention right now and it's. been a historic problem. And and the. president has said. that we're going to we think that we can. apply artificial intelligence to this. problem set. of of monitoring and verifying. compliance with the bioweapons. convention. which is heresy. It's another one of. these thinking outside the box things. So they say, "We want you to go to. Geneva and give this talk and be the key. keynote.

And I say, "And what's the date?". Oh, it's. February 12th. Um I say, "I I I don't talk about this because, you know, it's the general thing. You. don't tell people that you're going to. be on Rogan. Um you let Rogan say that when Rogan's. ready." Uh. And so I said, "But that I'm scheduled. for Rogan that day.". Um and they're like, "Oh, Rogan. Well, okay. Absolutely. You got to go on that. one. That's way more important than than. going and speaking at the UN. So, you're.

the State Department thinks you're more. important than me talking about. bioweapons." And they let me. uh WebEx it. Uh-huh. So, so that's what happened this. morning. And and uh. it is a So, I'm I'm supporting that. group. uh. um. now and maybe increasingly over time. And I don't know where that goes. So, you were talking about um these pigs. that it's a lab leak that's giving these. pigs. >> Spain. And what is it another gain of.

function laboratory where they're So, this is this is truly a breaking news. thing. Uh our media is not covering it. Uh and Shocker. Yeah. Um it it is being covered in Europe. It. in particular in Spain. This this is a. major economic threat because they're I. think the number two pork producer in. the world. Um and you know, in the hogs they're. feeding on acorns etc. That's that's a. big specialty market space. Yeah. Uh so.

last November. uh this this laboratory that is. ostensibly working this is I mean, it's. Wuhan 2.0. Only. the good news is that this is not. uh. swine flu. People get that confused. I'm not. talking about swine flu. This is African swine fever. It's been. around for millennia. It's never crossed. into humans. It's a very different.

virus. So, just make sure we got that. clear. >> Okay. Um So, this highly lethal African. uh swine fever virus. uh is is a threat to the global pork. industry. And uh So, this laboratory in Spain is. cooperating with the USDA to try to. develop a new vaccine for African swine. fever. And in doing so that they our government.

once again was unaware that this even. existed. There's a cooperative agreement between. USDA and this laboratory. to engage in if if you read, they don't. call it gain of function research. They. call it building recombinant viruses uh. and experimenting in uh different uh. virus structures uh to allow them to. better build a better vaccine. Exactly. the same logic that was used in Wuhan.

Okay? Now. then last November, so this is ongoing. in this little laboratory. And what this. relates to, Joe, is the idea that is. being promoted that uh for justice and. equity and sharing we need to enable. there being uh distribution of highly. infectious pathogens all over the world. in separate laboratories so that um. we're we in the big bad West are not.

imposing and enabling our industries to. prey on name your uh emerging economy. uh by taking biological resources from. them, in other words, new viruses and. using them to build stuff. We have to. cooperate and they have to have access. to these regions. So, so the logic right. now that's in play and being promoted by. the WHO. is that we should have. a. high pathogen repositories and research.

programs all over the world. Decentralized in these emerging economy. states. And you know, Spain is is uh not. Germany. Uh but so so there's a Spanish lab USDA. is cooperating with them. They're going. to build a African swine fever virus. vaccine. They're doing gain of function. research. And then And by the way, just. like in Wuhan, there's some construction. going on. uh related to that. And then. uh.

suddenly. and it's an area that is very dense in. wild hogs. Now, somehow we got to get. this through our brain. Okay? You don't. put the facility in a place that's. proximal to the thing that might get. infected if you have a lab leak. I mean, that's that ought to be like rule number. one stamped on everybody's brain. You. don't do it. Like the Rocky Mountain. Labs make a lot of sense. If you're. going to be working with nasty stuff. and you got to do it, put it somewhere. obscure, not in Boston, right? Um so,

they're doing it. They're surrounded by. dense wild hog population. And suddenly, last November, people detect there is. wild hogs dead all over around this. facility. What could possibly have happened? So, they start investigating. The people. Police have been in. Uh grabbed the records, grabbed the. digital information, etc. Because the. entire Spanish. pork industry. is now compromised. Their major client, China has already pulled their trade.

barriers. No more Spanish pork going into China. I. advocate that President Trump ought to. drop the curtain right now. Because when I looked at the. distribution of wild hogs, I mean, you. you've traveled enough. You know. uh uh how important uh wild feral hogs. are in the economy in uh. Italy. The wild hogs are all over in Europe. And this place in Catalonia is right. near the French border. I don't And then like right on the other.

side, a couple hundred miles, is Italy. And and the band of of high-density wild. hogs spreads like that up through the. mountains and then down into Italy. And and I think that uh. if if I was sitting in the White House. right now, I think uh to protect, you know, both. for. uh the president core constituency is. ag.

Voted for him, you know, three times. >> [cough]. >> And. >> [clears throat]. >> he's that he holds that near and dear. And I think that. uh it's good politics and it's good. public health. It's good health. uh. agricultural decision. to raise the barriers now. Um until. we can see that Europe has resolved the. risk associated with this. How are they. going to resolve that? So, once again, what's Wild hogs. This.

is not like it's anything that's. contained. >> I I In And to your point, I don't know. the answer. I mean, right now what. they're doing is they're using drones. uh to try to find, you know how hard it. is to hunt wild hog. Yeah, they hunt. them out of helicopters [laughter] here. in Texas. Yeah. And and and. >> can't even contain. And the hogs are winning. It's like the. emu wars in Australia, right? [laughter]. My friend Monty Franklin is from. Australia, actually has a joke about. that. About that we we fought a war with.

the emus and we lost. >> true. >> [laughter]. >> We have emus on our farm and and they're. weird animals, man. It's like living. with dinosaurs. Uh but. >> They're dumb as [ __ ] too. They are. They're weird. They My wife says they. don't have two brain cells to rub. together. No, I I talked to a lady who's. a falconer and she said the dumbest. birds by far are emus. Second dumbest. are owls, she said. Oh, really? I didn't. know that owls. >> Isn't that crazy? Yeah, I didn't know. that. I always thought they were so. smart. Give a hoot, don't pollute. They're always wearing a monocle.

You know? [laughter]. They're always the wise professor. Well, that. >> Right, it goes back to It goes back to. Athens, the symbol of learning has been. the owl. Very weird. Very weird. Yeah, so emus are weird. But so they the hogs. I I don't know what they're going to do. What they did to control in Europe, so. the former assistant director general of. the WHO, who I knew, this was her claim. to fame, was she had led the development. of rabies baits. And they would bait uh.

um with a rabies vaccine. to try to control the incidence of. rabies in particularly foxes was the. problem throughout Europe. And a lot of the foxes were um crossing. from the uh. less developed part of the European. Union into France, which was not. acceptable. Uh she was French. And so what they did. is they developed these baits with a.

vaccine. Uh and they would distribute them out of. helicopters. helicopters. There's a. whole science about how dense the baits. have to be. to get immunity against rabies. in in um fox populations. Whole science around it, but that they. they were successful. Um they controlled. uh fox and wolf population rabies in. Europe largely eradicated it through the. use of baits distributed by helicopters. Do they have a vaccine for this? >> don't. That's what they were supposed to.

be developing. That was the whole. purpose. They were supposed to be. developing, but really what they were. developing is a more transmissible. strain. >> Well, whatever. Yeah, in order to prove. that they could I don't know, you know, it's the it's it's the same. story over and over again. It's Wuhan. 2.0. Exactly. And how how are we not. going to see this. as an increasing trend. and and there's the whole dark side that. you know, when I you know, I read my. comments. Uh maybe I shouldn't sometimes, but I.

do. Don't do it after this show. >> [laughter]. >> Um. Uh so so, you know, you get the. blowback. Uh well, this is all by. intention because they're building. market for whatever it is that they want. to market, right? That's the there's one. of the dark themes about COVID was that. uh. they wanted to promote the spread of. COVID in order to sell the vaccines and. blah blah blah. You know, so that's the. the narrative. And so in this case, well, they want to spread African swine. fever because.

somehow they're going to profit from. that while destroying their pork. industry. Uh you know, but this is this. is the armchair uh strategists on the. internet. Uh but that Has it gotten into. the domestic pork market? Interesting question. Not to my. knowledge yet, but I have this. interesting colleague that I work with. closely at the ACIP named Retsif Levy, who's the chair of the COVID working. group and is giving the pharmaceutical. industry a run for their money right. now. And it's of course being vilified by the.

press etc. And. >> [cough]. >> Retsif is a full professor at MIT. And his core competence. uh is risk analysis and mitigation. And he's he he reads my Substack uh cuz. we're friends. Uh he doesn't subscribe, I'm pretty sure, but he reads it. Um and. uh. Um. So he he we're talking and he says, "Yeah, I read that thing that you put. out about that virus.".

And he said, "I wrote a proposal years. ago. about risk mitigation and the need to do. something about that because of it the. ease by which it can enter. the domestic pork population.". So, I infer from that that there is a. whole body of science and logic. about and he said it's it's it's very. readily transmitted. into commercial pork. Which is why the. Chinese have already dropped, you know, dropped the curtain and said no, we're.

not going to allow any of that into our. into China. uh because of the risk. I mean, what. we're talking about So, I I wrote an. essay about um. uh. uh low risk high impact. events. which is what we're talking about. Uh another example of a low risk high. impact event. uh is gene drive technology that Gates. is promoting to exterminate the. mosquitoes, for example. You know, gene drive technology can be.

used to exterminate a species. Particularly ones that have a high. reproductive rate. And uh. you know, it's another one that is a. CRISPR application. Uh but there is a whole school of. thought. that gene drive tech should never be let. out of the box into the environment. Because. in in. that that what's, you know, there are. those that are that are actively. promoting its use. Uh and uh to eliminate bad stuff.

And uh you know, we're all for. eliminating bad stuff. Uh. um uh you know, organisms, insects, worms, flies, stuff. Uh and. yet. it and and we can do experiments where. we say, "Oh, we'll cultivate this kind. of fly together with that kind of fly. and only these flies are going to have. gene drive and we're going to look for. whether or not it gets over to these. flies and if it doesn't, then we can. conclude that it's unlikely. But, as.

Brett would tell you, um we're dealing. with ecosystems here. Really complex. ecosystems. And. the the risk environment now that I. think. grown-ups have to acknowledge, coming out of COVID, you know, the big. lessons. We can we can we can talk about. these. egregious things that we've all. experienced that have been put on us. But, the big picture is. this thing. came out. and I'm convinced it was engineered.

I'm I I believe the most likely. hypothesis is not that it was. intentionally released. I still think. that's a possibility. But, that it was an unintentional uh. release, uh an infection of of a lab worker or. something like that. that let it get out cuz that's what. happens again and again in these. facilities. Uh. the. these low probability events. can have extremely high impacts. And as we've seen, global impacts.

And we have to rethink. how we're managing risk, which is, as I. mentioned, Red Sif's kind of core. competence. And and. that logic. runs up against this belief that well, it hasn't happened so far and I'm an. expert and I have the right to play. around in this in this sandbox that I've. helped develop. I know more than you do. How can you tell me that I shouldn't be. doing that? You don't have the right to.

tell me. I'm the expert in this space. And uh to come into that environment and. say, look guys, you're playing around with stuff. that could have a very high impact even. though it hasn't happened yet. And you got to to. rethink. uh what is acceptable. And and I think that that, you know, we. were talking a moment about the State. Department and uh. um. uh weapon control.

We're now in an environment where the. speed of of. um growth of the power of biotechnology. is accelerating. It's going. exponential just like what we saw with. semiconductors. And uh. our bioethics. our regulatory structures our our way of. thinking about those risks. is completely. unable.

to. keep up with the pace of the advance. And that is creating uh a whole new. threat scene. Not to scare people. I. mean, I I as I was thinking about coming. on here, I was saying to myself, "Okay, Robert, just take a deep breath. It's only Joe. Rogan. He's a human. And uh you want to stay positive. And I. I don't want to go dark and just scare. people, but. we've got to take. um. we got to recognize.

that uh this is a different world now. We have all of this digital tech. and and what it means and information. control and and suppression and and. manipulation psychologically. uh basically programming, customized. programming. uh through avatars and all of this. power, but we also have in parallel. this world of rapidly advancing.

biotechnology. that is you know, for the for the likes. of Yuval Harari. and those that are imagining a future of. transhumanism. Uh and all of that means. Uh. we're we're moving very rapidly into a. world. Uh that we can hardly even process. One of the big thrust vectors in Silicon.

Valley right now relating to. reproductive rights has to do with the. development of artificial wombs. You know, these these wealthy Um. privileged. people. don't want to carry their own babies. And I guess surrogates are too. cumbersome. Or risky. So they're really talking. about a baby. >> It's not talking. They're They're We're. going to run an essay about this soon. They already have a lamb that they have.

grown de novo in an artificial womb. We're We're We're there. Okay? And And these people see it as. freeing. This This is This is um more. women's rights. Uh you know, we we don't need. to. uh. have the organic process of carrying a. baby. And that's a good thing, they. believe. You know, completely disregarding that. there is a whole lot of subtle complex.

interactions that occur between mother. and fetus in the womb, okay, that gives. rise to Right. You're Who knows what. kind of humans you're going to develop. with no interaction with the mother at. all the entire 9 months where they're. developing But that. >> of hormones But for the sake of. convenience, we want to do that. Oh god. Okay? And that what that you know. Zoom in on that. Okay? That has all. kinds of implications. It has.

implications for organ transplantation. My friend Yanya Kelek, I don't know if. you know Yanya, if you've ever had him. on. You might want to sometime. Interesting character. He is the. Washington Bureau Chief for this. newspaper that is defamed all the time, ridiculed, Epoch Times. Mhm. Okay, which. I think is like the only print newspaper. left in the United States that's worth. reading that ascribes to classical. journalism. But he's just come out with. a book about um organ harvesting in. China.

And organ harvesting on demand. Documenting that they are using live. prisoners and keeping them in compounds. and testing them for their genetic. background and characteristics, and then. harvesting them when necessary to. provide organs for transplantation. largely to Westerners. Because it is enormously profitable and. also to leaders in the CCP. This is what. all this brouhaha was about the open mic. event with Putin. About uh we can use. transplantation to let us live another.

100 years. That Remember that little. clip? So that this In in a world in which we. can have artificial wombs, um we can grow our own clones. to provide donor tissue. To buy provide an insurance policy. We're we're right at the doorstep of. that. Okay? Again, demonic. It sounds demonic. I mean, is a. soul a real thing? Just cuz it can't be.

quantified by science, you can't measure. it? I mean, the concept of the soul has. always existed. If that's a real thing, who knows what you're doing creating a. human being from an artificial womb? Who. knows what kind of processes are. happening? We we know that stress on the. mother imparts all sorts of unwanted. characteristics in children. We know that. We know like All kinds of. interactions. The playing The playing of. music, that's real.

>> Yes. Yes. Soothing playing of music. Yeah. So. so that's happening. That that vector is. proceeding. And once you have that in the in a world. of CRISPR, okay? You can do genetic modification of. a very small number of cells and then. grow fetus from that. Okay? So, that opens the door to. Do you remember Did you watch the movie. Gattaca? Yeah. Gattaca, absolutely recommended. If you.

want to understand our brave new world, the one that's really coming at us and. the ethical conundrums associated with. that, watch Gattaca. And by the way, it has great production. value, too, does it? It's well made. >> movie. Great movie. And totally under. appreciated. >> And terrifying. Yeah. If that's really. what our future is. >> And And the title g a t t a g a refers. to a DNA sequence, by the way. That's. why the name Gattaca. Oh. Okay? So, so watch the movie. You've already seen. it.

>> Yeah. You get it. Okay? We're moving to. that space. where we have custom-built humans. Now, it's being you know, what's driving. that? Convenience. Who doesn't want to. have a child that's better than that's. like you, but better? Stronger, bigger, you know, smarter, better vision. Get. rid of all the problems that I've got, right? Or you've got, or whomever, you. know? And And in your in your next. offspring. And all you got to do, because here's another fun fact,

at bulk, whole genome sequencing is now about 300. bucks. Whole genome sequencing is the is the. portal. for selective engineering. with with Cas9 CRISPR systems. So, we're we now we're right on the. threshold of that entire spectrum of. capability of manipulating animals, life, fundamentals of life in every. species and humans.

And concurrently, we have the incoming. vector of robotics technology. and modern computational advanced, you. know, we're moving rapidly. I you know, people say, "Oh, it's going to be next. month we're going to have general. artificial intelligence." Well, they. keep saying that month after month. What. do we got here? Video made about the. >> [clears throat]. >> the artificial wombs. Yeah. Oh, boy, that's messed up. >> this. I was trying to figure out who.

made this. I don't think the company who. Oh, this is so creepy. >> Yeah, I'm not BSing. I mean, doesn't. this look like it's something straight. out of the Matrix? 100%. This is all 3D. obviously. >> Oh my Obviously, it's not real but oh my. god, this is terrifying. That That This. This is a business model. >> Like what is what kind of psychology. does this child have with no exposure to. its mother? Hey, but For the nine months this thing. >> For mom, it's a lot more convenient and. she can get the perfect baby that she. wants. What's not to like here, Joe?

>> serial killer. Oh, Yeah. I And you put. it on SSRIs. >> Well, this is the thing about Do you. know the story about Ted Kaczynski? One. of the stories One One of the things. that happened to him? In the Netflix. documentary, they go into this. He was. very sick when he was a boy, when he was. a baby and they kept him in this nursery. with no contact with human beings for a. long time. For a long time. No one. picked him up when he cried. He just sat. in in this crib with no contact with his. mother, nothing. Yeah. And he from then.

on I mean, his brother always described. him as just like off. >> Off. Yeah. >> Just off. >> Yeah. He He never had that. >> Early stage neural development is. amazing and profound. By the way, this. loops back to the vaccine story. When we're when we're doing all these. jabs on these little tiny kids like the. hepatitis B birth dose, they're at a. stage where this thing. is just growing like crazy and so is. their liver and everything else. >> And you're injecting toxic chemicals. into their body. Which you which you.

really haven't characterized well and. you're stacking them. Yeah. Um and no. one's done the studies. So this is. >> it for profit. This is another thing. that the secretary is adamant about and. and that the president has led on. >> Well, the the having them exempt from. any legal ramifications of the adverse. side effects of vaccines, what they did. during the Reagan administration, is. really like it it gave them this. free license. >> Yeah, free license. >> crazy. To just go crazy and jack up the. vaccine schedule as high as they could.

justify. And then along with it, corresponding profits rise. That's what's [ __ ] scary. >> it's. so if you want to go down that rabbit. hole, it's even worse. Um once functionally because of how. difficult it is to prove an endpoint and. get a vaccine licensed, once you get it licensed, you basically. have a cash cow in perpetuity. A And if. you get it down on the pediatric. schedule, in other words, you manage to. jam it through the ACIP,

because the ACIP, by the wisdom of Congress, is vested with the authority of. authorizing the Vaccines for Children. Program acquisitions. So if the There's no other program in. the entire US States United States. government that is outside of. congressional oversight. The ACIP can decide that this vaccine. needs to be purchased for the Vaccines. for Children Program. And historically, because the ACIP has been captured by. Pharma and by the CDC itself.

and by academia, um it those decisions, they never go backwards. Right. And so. you get the product down onto the VFC, the Vaccine for Children Program, and. the pediatric schedule, and then that. triggers the indemnification clause that. you're talking about, which by the way. is different from the one that kicked in. with the COVID situation with the PREP. Act. That's that's even worse. But what. you end up with, Joe, is a situation.

where. as the vaccine manufacturer, think it. You now have. no legal liability. You have guaranteed purchasing, distribution, and marketing because the. CDC does all the propaganda. Vaccines. are safe and effective. You must take. this, right? And then then you end up. with and it's in many cases it's school. district level. It's not even state. level. The states have the right to. regulate the practice of medicine. The. federal government doesn't. That means. the CDC can advise that this is the.

vaccine schedule and many states, because they don't have the. infrastructure to actually process. what's going on, they say, "Well, if the. CDC advises it, then we're going to. mandate it.". Okay? Or school districts do. And so you end up in this situation. where you as a manufacturer get your. product on the market, you get it down. into this special program, you got. guaranteed purchase, guaranteed profit, full indemnification, marketing, purchase, distribution, all paid for by.

the taxpayer. And no liability. It's it's perfect. as a business model. What's not to like? It's so scary how many people just go. along with it, too. Oh, they they they. don't just go along with it. They are. propagandized into believing it as a. as a theology. >> They've administered to Exactly. I was. going to say it's religious dogma. They've administered it to their. children. They believe it in. wholeheartedly. And when someone says. something like vaccines don't cause. autism, the whole audience will applaud. And you're like, "How do you know? How.

do you know that?" Well, you're so. confident that you're applauding. Well, it's because what I've heard. I've heard it so many times. Of course I believe it. >> That's what's twisted about it. >> just well, that it and and it. illustrates the power of what we're. dealing with. Yeah. And it once you get. it by thinking through the vaccine. story, I mean, you've you've. um you're you're ruined now, my friend. Cuz once once you get it about vaccines, then you see it everywhere. Well, I had.

Suzanne Humphries on who wrote that book. Dissolving Illusions. Uh-huh. And you. know, that that book is a must-read for. anybody who wants to really understand. the history of vaccines and what really. happened in terms of the end of. pandemics and the introduction of these. vaccines. Like what what actually took. place. >> Yes. Yes. Oh, that that. >> And you know, there's the whole thread. of of how prevalent uh um. um lead was in the population in in the. powdered wigs and so many things that we.

had. And then when they got rid of the. lead, that was concurrent with uh the. onset of uh widespread vaccination. And. so, the loss of life associated or the. improvement in loss of life and birth. outcomes. associated with getting the lead out of. the population, well, that's ascribed to. the vaccines by the people that are busy. marketing vaccines. And likewise, the. all. >> DDT Yeah, all the work associated with. uh uh water sanitation and and all of. that. No, that's all true. The first.

time I To credit where credit's due, as. a vaccinologist, the first time I really encountered that. logic. was Candace Owens had me on years ago. And she said, "You know, we've done this. deep dive and we've looked at this thing. and these these infectious diseases go. down before the vaccines come up. Um and. yet we're told this narrative." Right. And of course, we're told this. narrative. Yeah. The polio one's the nuttier one.

Cuz when when people are so concerned. about polio and polio vaccines and we. we've cured polio, we they're going to. bring back polio if they stop the. vaccines. When I tell them. what percentage of polio do you think is. asymptomatic? And that most people think like none, right? It's 95 to 99%. of polio is asymptomatic. And then you find out through Suzanne. Humphrey's work that they were spraying. DDT ubiquitously all over the country at.

the same time and it gives you the same. exact symptoms of paralytic polio. And then subsequently the actual first. infections that started occurring in. this country were occurring in rural. areas where they sprayed DDT everywhere. Yeah, so. one of So, there's uh. if I can kind of throw another log on. the fire on that narrative. One of the cool things that I'm getting. to see from my perch at the ACIP.

is people working at the cutting edge of. modern genetic uh. technology investigations about cause. and effect and genomic effects. And. one of the things you you talk about. this rare incidence of paralytic polio. or. uh. myocarditis. Okay? Myocarditis is rare. uh with the vaccine and yet it happens. at a significant rate. It happens more. in certain populations than other. populations. This was heresy at first.

and now they were forced to admit it and. and uh. stay tuned uh later in February. But uh. um. there's a group that had a big grant. to look at genetic links. associated with risk factors for this. And strangely halfway through their. program during the Biden administration, all their funding got cut. But they still made a lot of progress. and they kind of limped along with. volunteer stuff. Modern I mentioned the. genome costs at 300 bucks a a genome.

These guys have gone through and they've. identified seven genes that represent uh. um high risk factors for myocarditis. after vaccination. Myocarditis after vaccination, by the. way, was a major side effect associated. with the smallpox vaccines, or one of. them. Uh it's it's been associated with. vaccines for quite a while. We just kind. of haven't heard about it and it's. particularly bad with these. But there we it it. one of the. you know, trying to continue my theme of.

it's not all dark. Right. Uh. one of the things that's coming out is. that if we commit to it and do the. research like uh Team Kennedy is. committed to doing, um we may well be able to detect those. people that the character of genetic. characteristics of those people that. might have been at higher risk for, say, paralytic polio. or myocarditis. So that we can have genetic tests and. you can have that test and determine.

whether you actually have that risk. factor. It looks like because of the. dynamics of clinical research and. epidemiology in infectious disease that. um this kind of application of genetic. diagnostic technology may give us whole. new insights into those small. populations. that that had those uh rare events. Um you know, we know the big picture in. in COVID. and the COVID vaccination. post-vaccination uh syndrome.

of the high-risk individuals with. obesity and elderly and basically people. with a high inflammatory set point. Uh but now we're getting down into some. of the nuances and I think that that's, you know, I talked about some of the. dark sides of biotechnology, but there's. some real uh. you know, bright sides that um. uh. um offer hope. Uh and and uh well, what. will happen as that kind of starts to. roll out is that um.

manufacturers and and academic. surrogates and others. are kind of. not going to be able to continue to hide. behind these narratives that they have. promoted now for decades. Because uh the true truth is going to. come out. It is going to come out. Um is it going to come out during this. administration? to do long-term. follow-up studies are going to take a. decade. That's that's the unfortunate truth and.

then we're going to have a lot of grief. around that. How come you haven't. already. fill in the blank. Right. >> Um but uh it's going to happen. And uh that is another big. plus of of what's going on right now uh. kind of behind the scenes at HHS. Uh hopefully they get a chance to still. do it uh after the mid-term and they. don't get hog-tied. But um. I'm I'm optimistic that we're these. narratives that have been promoted, these false narratives, we're going to. be able to break them.

through doing actual science uh if we're. allowed to do it. Uh and and uh this new technology. uh is uh particularly with sequence. analysis. Um and identification of of risk. correlates, the intersection between. sequence analysis and epidemiology is. going to really open up uh new. understandings about what's going on in. human disease. I'm absolutely convinced. What we do about it. is that's a whole 'nother kettle of.

fish. This I mean, we can do the science. until the cows come home. The public. policy part is wicked hard. Yeah. But at least there's some. positive developments. Yeah, that's. that's that's what I want to say is is a. bright light at the end of There there. is all this dark stuff. Yeah. Uh and and. we have to we have to. allow ourselves to see it. It's you see it and you get the reaction.

like you did. Uh, I I don't want to see. that. It's too much. It's too. overwhelming. It's too scary. But we. look away at our own risk. And um, and and we have this tendency to. say it's all dark. Uh, you know, we have these uh, individuals that I mentioned Yuval. Harari. uh, um, you know, believing that man is God. now. We no longer need God. Uh, we have become gods. We have become. as gods. >> Does he actually say that?

>> Yeah. Really? Well, but but isn't he talking in sort. of metaphorically about our. technological potential? I I don't know I don't I don't know how. to I don't know how to discern the. meaning of that. >> demonized guy online. >> a lot of dark stuff and uh, I think so. um, you you probably read the book book. Did you interview the author of of you. know, the Sapiens? Did you read the. author of uh, Dark Eon? No. No, I've. never read that book. >> So that's so that's talking This is.

talking more about. kind of the Silicon Valley culture. that's pushing transhumanism and how how. um, integrally it's become. uh, involved in this space. I mean, what I I. don't have I don't pal around with Elon. And not to say he is or or whomever you. want to talk about in that space. That's those I mean, that's not my pay. grade. Mhm. Uh, but my understanding and. and I read these things. Maybe they're.

also maybe that's also also propaganda. That a lot of these people. um, of let's say the Bill Gates cast and. the younger ones associated with that. uh, would are are advocates for a world. in which they are able to upload their. um, avatar consciousness. in a digital space and live forever. That's Ray Kurzweil, right? That's I. sounds like you know more you're the. you're the uh. um. uh UAP.

uh guy here which by the way is another. fascinating domain that I'm learning. more about more about. >> It's bizarre. Um that's a rabbit hole. you go down like oh this isn't empty. This is not an empty rabbit hole. There's a lot of money behind this and. it seems like there's been a lot of. black funding and. business? Yeah. Business. A lot of. business. Defense contractors involved. It seems like there's some inventions. that sort of emerged out of nowhere. that supposedly are connected to back. engineering programs. >> so I'm I'm now.

uh. I'm now. of of the belief. that there exists a capability. that transcends. uh. uh physics as we know it. Let's say. Einsteinian physics. Uh and is more aligned with uh Hawking's. physics. Uh that um we can't we don't comprehend. right now. Uh and it has to do with extremely high.

energy systems. And uh I I. having I mean I've had some of these. guys. because I'm now known worldwide as a. nutcase I guess and and a conspiracy. theorist I've had them on my farm. Uh you know staying in our in our guest. house and and um shooting the bull. And me trying to understand their world. and what they're seeing and what they've. experienced and and observed and the. information.

um and. uh I'm I'm of the there's a lot of. different models for what the hell's. going on here. And maybe it's all us, right? That's one model. It's all us uh. with with uh. >> secret technology. >> Yeah. Um that's one model for the What. do they call it? Tic Tacs and. uh. I'm I'm. increasingly convinced by the logic that. there is a physics beyond the physics. that we know. that is the physics of extremely high. energy systems.

And in high energy systems a lot of the. rules about motion and uh. and uh transportation and matter. uh and the ability to cross between. matter states. that. is repeatedly observed. uh and reported by responsible people uh. military folks that have you know strong. disincentives Right. >> for saying this stuff and yet still.

they're saying, "That's what I saw.". Okay? And the. >> Transmedium devices that can fly and. then go underwater as fast as they're. flying. >> and and. >> No ripples. >> Yeah. Um So, I I one of the models of. that is that this has to do with uh. having some extremely high energy source. uh in a very small package. And uh. is that possible? We're now moving into a new fusion.

world. Right? We're We're talking about these. micro fusion reactors that are going to. be powering our data centers all over. the world transforming the whole energy, right? I mean, there's this logic in you. crossing over into the. the economics Bitcoin or kind of space. Uh. there's this logic that it all comes. down to energy. Uh energy is is the one. uh thing. that uh fuels economic development and.

and everything around us. And uh there. I'm I'm not a physicist, but I listen. and learn and and it sounds to me like. these uh, micro reactors. and the the technology that was involved. strangely in this assassination. Remember that bizarre assassination in. in Boston that happened? Um, there was. two competing companies. Okay? Um, there's something Yeah, there's.

something going on there. that's. really transformational. And if it matures, I remember Trump is. invested in this in big way. Uh, that had to do with uh, um, him kind of leveraging Truth Social in a. strange way. Remember? Uh, he. if if we if we emerge into a future. within my lifetime. probably of these micro nukes.

uh, as energy sources decentralized. First driven by the tech bros because. they want to have their data centers. But then suddenly we have as that. matures and the patents come off. we have the ability to put uh, power. generation in very small packages. wherever we want in the world. Suddenly the entire landscape of. economic activity and the future of. humanity is transformed like that.

And that's just the beginning. If we push that technology, we may find. ourselves in some space. where. we have the ability to produce extremely. large amounts of energy in a very small. package. And and use that you know, of course. it'll be weaponized. Use that for a. variety of things. Uh, but um, I I think the guys that are. speculating about these phenomena being.

driven. by. the existence of of of almost point. sources of of unlimited energy. functionally. Uh. may make sense out of things that. otherwise are really hard to. wrap your head around. Well, we're in for a very interesting future. one way or another. >> Yes. Yeah, and it and it doesn't have to. be. dark and demonic. Hopefully not. >> If we let these bastards have their way.

What is this, Jamie? >> Make a small correction. That video I. showed you apparently isn't real, not a. real company, made by a Berlin filmmaker. in 2022. Went viral. I found it in a New York. Post article that kind of said it was. real. Mhm. Uh but. But there are plans to do something. along. >> going to say which is a little weirder. It says at the bottom this is getting. confused with a pregnancy robot that was. announced in China in 2025. This though apparently also is not real. also uh. The pregnancy robot is not real? Yeah,

there it was an uh they named a. scientist that was working on it. Not. real. It's not a real person. Look at. that. That's all right. >> Yeah, but but the company working. Nonetheless, nonetheless They are. working on artificial. >> they will our I. Just saying. I we're we're going to come. out so so see if you can find the since. you're so good at Googling [snorts] or. whatever you're doing. Um see if you can find the images of. this artificial womb and I believe it's. a lamb. >> Yeah, no, we've seen the lamb before,

but I'm just saying that the the people. thing is. >> The factory thing with people. >> Oh, well that was obviously AI. I mean. that was not that wasn't AI. It wasn't. even a real company that was doing it. It was it's synthetic images. I don't. want to give out fake news. Yeah, good. Well, God forbid we might get banned. Well, Robert, thank you so much for being. here. I really appreciate it and it was. nice for you to come back and. under less hostile terms in the world. wasn't. >> then. Yeah, it the world was. >> the I think your message was a lot more.

hostile in it's the way it was received. You know, like you were received in a. hostile way. I don't think this one's. going to be hostile. I think pretty much. everything that you said. most people are aware of now and then. the other things that you're saying. they're are not far-fetched at all. And I think there's a lot more people. that are more open to receiving. information like that now than ever. before. Well, some of it can be attributed to. you. Uh. that's kind. Um let's say to the.

community. Yeah. Uh and and of which I'm a vehicle. have been at times. A lot of the stuff that I shared with. you back then. was the consequence of a community that. I was embedded in. of others physicians and scientists. Many of whom were primary care. practitioners. And I was I was attending weekly. meetings with these people. And I had frontline knowledge of what.

they were seeing and experiencing. And I. had frontline knowledge of the. physicians that I was collaborating with. at Ditra of what they were experiencing. I was never managing COVID patients. except myself. But I knew what others were experiencing. and you gave me an opportunity to give. to share their voice through me. And I thank you for that. It was It was. a moment in time and I think we did. good. Uh but by God they came at us. It.

was wild. >> [laughter]. >> Well, thank you, sir. Thank you very. much. I really appreciate you being. here. It was a lot of fun. All right. Bye, everybody. >> [music].