Joe Rogan Experience #2450 - Tommy Wood

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe. Rogan Experience. TRAIN BY DAY, JOE. ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. ALL DAY. ALL RIGHT. Nice to meet you, sir. >> [music]. >> Stimulated mind. A few future-proof for your brain. Is. that possible? Future-proof, why can't I. say that? I already I already have. dementia. >> [laughter]. >> Future-proof your brain from dementia. and stay sharp at any age. Um what First of all, what prompted you.

to write this? So, I've spent a long time working in a. whole range of different spheres related. to the brain. Um how to treat newborn. brain injury, how to treat and maybe. even prevent certain traumatic brain. injuries and concussions, looking at what affects long-term. cognitive decline and dementia, as well. as working with elite uh professional. athletes, particularly Formula 1. drivers, trying to help them, you know, stay on top of their game for as long as.

possible. And I saw across all those different. areas, there are these core things that the. brain seems to thrive on that are. required either for development or. maintenance of cognitive function. And these are things that. people can apply to themselves on a. day-to-day basis, improve their focus um. and well-being now, and then long-term, that translates to a. lower risk of dementia. So, is dementia and is it is it Is it a.

genetic thing or is it a function of. atrophy? Is it a combination of those. things? It's a combination of those. things. Certainly, there's a genetic. component. So, maybe I will zoom out to start with and. just think about like what is dementia? Dementia is. the. clinical diagnosis of losing so much. cognitive function that you're not able. to take care of yourself on a day-to-day. basis.

There are several different types of. dementia. The most common is Alzheimer's. disease. That's something like uh 60 to 80% of. cases of dementia. The next most common is vascular. dementia. Something like 10 to 20%. And. then there are others like. frontotemporal dementia, Lewy body. dementia, dementia you get with. Parkinson's disease. But those first two. something like 70 to 90% of dementias. They are directly tied to lifestyle and. the environment. And right now it's.

estimated that somewhere between 45 and. maybe even 70 or more percent of. dementias are preventable. And most of those fall into those two. categories. There is a genetic component. So. uh Alzheimer's disease has two broad. types. There's early-onset Alzheimer's. disease. That's caused by a single. mutation in a single gene. Something like the amyloid precursor. protein gene or one of the presenilin. genes. Those people get Alzheimer's in their. 30s to 50s. It's a very uh predictable.

and quite rapid decline sometimes. But that's maybe 1% of Alzheimer's. The. vast majority like when we think about. Alzheimer's, we think about an. age-related dementia. And this is much more related to the. environment. So there is a genetic. component. You might have heard of APOE. 4. Yeah. So you can have three different. flavors of APOE apolipoprotein E uh 2 3. and 4. You get two copies. Which is the. one that makes you more um.

more likely to get CTE? Is that two? >> Oh, no. So that's that's that's four as. that's four as well. Yeah, so four. um essentially has an effect of. amplifying certain inflammatory effects. um in the brain. That's probably why it. makes CTE worse. Makes it more likely. for you to get CTE cuz if you're if. you're getting repetitive impacts, repetitive injuries. then it of exacerbates or makes that. inflammatory response worse. Um. but when you uh think about that in. terms of Alzheimer's, if you have one.

copy of of ApoE4, your incre your risk. of Alzheimer's is increased by sort of. two to six times. If you have two. copies, it's six to 20 times, depending. on how you look at it. Um but. all the data suggest that ApoE4 is a. risk multiplier, right? So, it's not. that if you have a copy of ApoE4, you're. definitely going to get um dementia. It's that in the setting, particularly. of the modern environment, risks of dementia or risk factors for.

dementia are amplified, like. excessive alcohol intake, uh physical. inactivity, low-quality diet. Um so, that also means that if you have. um. if you if you then address those risk. factors, you have greater benefit, right? Cuz you're offsetting some of. that additional risk. So, however you look at dementia from a. genetic standpoint, and it can also be. family history, right? If you have a. family history of dementia, you have an. increased risk of dementia. But a lot of what comes with family. history is shared environment and shared.

lifestyle, right? You eat and sleep and. move like your parents did. And so, if they had a lifestyle that. might increase their risk of dementia, you get that as well. So, even if you do have an increased. genetic risk, you can offset a large. part of that through lifestyle and other. environmental factors. Okay, so for some. people there's an increased genetic. risk, but do some people who do not have. this increased genetic risk, do they. still have a possibility of getting. dementia just from atrophy or just from. sedentary lifestyle, no stimulation.

whatsoever? Yes. So, the the kind of the. way we would say it is that not. everybody who has ApoE4 gets. Alzheimer's, and most people who have. Alzheimer's do not have ApoE4. So, absolutely. Okay. So, is it just like everything. else, like your muscles atrophy, your. bones weaken when you don't put load on. them. Is that what it is? Yeah. So, that's like the core thesis of my book, right? It's called the stimulated mind. For that reason. I think that in the.

And and the title is slightly. provocative cuz in the modern world, we. are hyper-stimulated, over-stimulated. and. >> With nonsense. >> Exactly. So, we're over-stimulated and. under-stimulated at the same time. >> Right. We're getting a lot of input, but. we're not doing any calculations, we're. not formulating new ideas, we're not. being creative, we're not. problem-solving. Exactly. >> inundated with nonsense. Exactly. So, the the function of any tissue in the. body, right? You mentioned the muscles, the bones, the liver, the immune system, their function is. dependent on the stimulus you apply to.

them. Right. And so, the brain is. exactly the same. And if you want. functions and networks in the brain to. func to perform well, you need to. challenge them in order to enhance. capacity in them. Do you think you need. to keep your liver working healthy by. drinking every now and then? [laughter]. So, um the it it's the example of yes, if. you drink a lot of alcohol, your your. liver gets better at metabolizing. alcohol. So, it kind of it proves the. point, but that doesn't necessarily mean. that the the alcohol is is there to keep. your liver healthy. Well,

didn't they used to do that with people. that had. if they had lung problems, they would. give them cigarettes? Yeah. Like people. with asthma? Yeah, yeah. And that didn't. turn out so great. So, the theory like the theory was okay, but I think they should have just been. breathing heavy. That would have been a. better application of that, right? Because it's just like you don't want to. torture your lungs aren't a filter to. like torture you. >> [laughter]. >> Yeah. Um so, when you started studying this, do you have someone close to you that. has Alzheimer's, or is it just a field.

of study that you were interested in? Yeah, there was two different things. One, um. I I focused initially on. the brain early in life, and then your. elite-level cognitive performance in. athletes. And you kind of see that these things. sort of tie together. Like, what happens. early in life, what happens during life. affects what happens later in life. Mhm. But I also had my grandfather died of. dementia. He He was an alcoholic, um and. he had a combination of alcoholic, um.

you know, alcohol-induced brain atrophy. plus uh vascular dementia. Oof. Um. I really wonder about people today. And. this is one of the reasons why I was so. interested in this, because the what are. we what we were just talking about. before, that people are being. oversaturated with nonsense, but not. stimulated in any way [clears throat]. that challenges your mind. I mean, this. is a constant state today. And then on. top of that, you've got a lot of people. that are. using. AI throughout their day to solve all.

their problems, where they don't think. at all. >> Yeah. And there's been some studies on. that that show that it's a decrease in. cognitive function. Like, when they ask. them to actually use their brain, the. brain works less well than it did before. they started. You'll say, "You're not. getting educated by ChatGPT No. or any. of these What you're doing is you're. letting it think for you. Absolutely. So, this one Well, maybe one of the. studies you're thinking of was a study. they did at MIT. And they had students. write essays, and they could either just. write it using whatever they had in.

their head already, or using Google, or. using an LLM. And what they showed was that as you. increase the amount of like outside. support you got, you know, Google and. then I think it was ChatGPT, then there was less activity in the. brain networks associated with actually. doing the task, and students remembered. less well afterwards. So, I mean, this isn't surprising. >> Not at all. You're not using your brain, therefore it doesn't engage in the task.

But what's interesting is that they they. found a version is so like some of the. students who. had previously written the written. written an essay just for themselves, then they asked them to go back and use. chat GPT on top. And what they found was that the final. output was better. So the way that we. can use these tools. rather than just asking it to do all the. stuff for us, which is what most people. are doing. And I think will cause skills.

and maybe even parts of the brain to. atrophy because they're not being used. Is we use them as orthotics. Like they. can expand our capacities, right? You. try writing it all first and then you. say, "Hey, what did I miss? What am I. not thinking about?" All right. >> And you can kind of build on it from. there. >> And that might perhaps actually. stimulate your mind to think, "Why. didn't I think of that?" Like next time. I'm writing a paragraph, I'll consider. these options. >> Yeah, exactly. So you actually have to. like fully engage your brain in that. process. But then they might you might.

the end result might be better. Well, it's just such uncharted territory for. us. >> Yeah. >> Right? All this the especially social. media. I mean, completely uncharted. territory that people are staring at. their hand for 8 hours a day. I mean, that's really what you're doing. You're. staring at your hand and you're hoping. uh usually unsuccessfully to get. something that really excites you. And. something that's really unique and and. changes your perspective on things. I. mean, I think maybe when I was using. social media every day, maybe once a day.

I would get something that I was really. interested in that I would save. I'd go, "Oh, that's actually interesting." And I. would think, "Okay, that'd be a good. subject to bring up on the podcast." But. the rest of the time it was just horse. [ __ ] Well, part of the algorithm and this, you. know, I'm not an expert in training. algorithms to do this, but part of the. the the goal of the algorithm is that. you don't get everything that is perfect. that will that immediately capture your. attention up front, right? Because you. want it to be random.

And there's uh like method in the. randomness that keeps you scrolling. because eventually you'll you'll you'll. get those small bumps that then that. then keep that keep keep you going. But what's particularly interesting. about social media is it leverages the. fact that we are social beings. So we. prioritize information that is called uh. the acronym is prime, prestigious, in-group, moral, and emotional. And this is even greater in social. context, right? Cuz we are trying to. learn about our social environment so.

that we can survive our group and be. fitter. And so social media makes us think that. we will get that information whilst at. the same time offering us the exact. opposite, which is essentially. isolation. Uh but it leverages that. desire of the human brain to find this. social information and this social. connection. whilst not giving us any of that. Ugh. Also, without it getting any feedback. from another human being while you're. communicating ideas. So you could say. the most horrible [ __ ] to people in a.

comment or a text message and you don't. think about it because it's like there's. not a person there. >> Yeah. Not right in front of you. Yeah. And It's designed for like it's like an. anti-human device. >> [laughter]. >> Very weird. But I mean, if if your goal. is to capture attention, they're doing a. great job of it. Well, not just that, they're acquiring enormous wealth and. also enormous influence over the. just. all sorts of things, politics, economics. Yeah. I mean, some of the.

richest corporations in the world, they. they gathered a thing that we never. thought of was valuable, which is data. Yeah. I mean, when we when people first. started using these things, when people. first started using the internet, nobody. really thought that data was going to be. one of the biggest commodities in the. world. Yeah, but now. if they know what captures your. attention and what you'll spend money on. and like that's uh it's a perfect way to. to. get as much out of you as possible. Um, so, the concept is future proofing your. brain. Um,

but like, what are the things that you. think people should be doing to try to. future proof the other than avoiding. social media and avoiding a lot of this. stuff that we're talking about here? So, I think. right, ev- every tool has a possible. use. So, like, for instance, social. media, if if you have crafted a social. media that allows you to maintain. connections that you wouldn't have. otherwise. Like, the original. uh version of Facebook as it existed 25. years ago was just like posting pictures.

and you could like chat with some family. members, right? >> Right. >> So, if you use social media like that, and there are studies that show that if. you're using online tools, including. social media, and it increases. communication and connection. beyond what you would have had. otherwise, that can be a net benefit. If. it's all you use and it's replacing. in-person human connection, then it's a. then it's a net negative. So, there can. be be ways that it could be beneficial. And, you know, if your Instagram feed is. just like cute dogs running around in.

the snow, which is what most of mine is. right now, right? That can be a nice. 5-minute break in between like. cognitively demanding tasks. >> Right. That's that's that's that's fine. Um, but when you think about future. proofing your brain, this this idea that. there is some unknowable future, right? We don't know what the future's going to. look like, but if we want to exist in. that future, we're going to need um. good processing speed, good. decision-making skills, good working.

memory, good. um emotional and social and social. skills, right? And so, in order to maintain those, we. need to challenge and stimulate them. So, the I think the most important thing. most people can do is think about. new, challenging, and often creative skills. there's a lot. of um evidence for creative arts, music. What What they do is they improve the.

function of networks in the brain that. are um at risk during the processes of. aging. Uh particularly because they're. important for attention and social. connection. And so, if we. really invest time in doing these things. that we suck at and get better at but. get get better at them, we maintain. these broad cognitive skills that we're. going to need in the future regardless. of of what happens. And some of that is. also personal. So, I like the goal is to build as much.

cognitive capacity as possible, right? I. have this idea of head room, which is. the difference between what you what you. need on a day-to-day basis versus what. you're truly capable of. It's It's the. difference between Like on a day-to-day. basis, your legs need to be strong. enough to like get you up off the. toilet, right? But your maximum capacity is like what's. your max back squat? The The difference between those is your. head room. And then that gives you. capacity to perform when you're injured. or sick or you need to like lift your.

car off your body cuz it got flipped in. a car accident. Like all those things. Like when you need to draw on greater. resources, you want those resources to. be there. Because we are going to be stressed, sleep deprived, sick, and we still want. our brains to function. So, investing in like really challenging. uh tasks and skills builds that capacity. so that we have access to it when we. need it. What What is the function and. like what what is the effect on the. brain when you learn a new skill? Like. sucking at something, which I always. tell people is one of the best things.

you can do. >> 100%. A lot of people don't enjoy it. because their ego, they don't like being. frustrated that they're terrible at. something, but there's something about. not being good at something and. dedicating yourself to it and and seeing. marked improvement that stimulates all. sorts of areas of your mind, which I. find really interesting. So, most people don't realize that. the process of learning, which is in itself is like the core. process of neuroplasticity, right? The. the brain making new connections and.

cementing new connections. That whole process is driven by failure, essentially, and making mistakes. Because your brain is a prediction. machine. It's constantly predicting. what's going to happen next based on you. know, the world around you and what. you're trying to do. And so, imagine that. you're trying to. um do some kind of new move in jiu-jitsu. or something. And you have no idea how to do it. You're You're going to try it, and. there's going to be this big gap between.

your expectation and reality. That's going to be frustrating, right? That's the feeling of failure. But that's what diverts resources in the. brain to say, "Hey, we need to close the. gap between what we hoped would happen. and what actually happened." And that's. what drives neuroplasticity. And this is. also then what drives the cementing and. function of these networks in the brain. associated with that. So, the idea that you you start sucking at. something, and you get better at it over. time, that's is exactly the thing that.

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predictions dollars expire in 1 year. Ends February 8th, 2026. Market. availability varies. Eligibility. restrictions apply. See terms at. dkn.co/predictionspromo. How many of those things should you take. on at once, though? This is my issue. I I have a problem. I I wish I could. have four lives that I could run. simultaneously. I would do four I'd have. four different occupations. So, I try to. smash as many things into a day as. possible. But, there's many times where. I think, "Boy, I think I'm doing too. many different things that I'm trying to.

get good at." And maybe it would be. better if I just concentrated on one. So, there's a few different ways to look. at this. I think that. a broad base and a broad range of. different skills is probably. something that we should all hope to. have. Like talent stacking. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And if you think about um. like one of my favorite books is Range. by David Epstein, which which talks. about the broad range of skills that. people who then really success at really. succeed in academia or sports have,

right? They didn't um specialize really. early. They had like a broad base of. talents that they can then draw upon as. they as they specialize later in life. And I think that's something that we can. all aspire to. But, equally, um. what's probably more common is that we. try something and we do it for a little. while and then we just kind of like give. up on it and we try something else. And. yeah, there's there's like a little bit. of benefit to that. But, when you look. at some of the studies that um. uh really examine the effect of learning. some of these creative skills and.

they've done it with tango dancers and. painters and video gamers, when you when you when you compare an. expert to an amateur, um [clears throat] and where you're. seeing the benefits of expertise in. terms of the function of some of these. networks in the brain, it really is the. development of some level of expertise. It is probably required to see the. maximum benefit. Obviously, the learning. curve is steepest at the at the. beginning, right? Right when you're. learn beginning to learn something, that's when you'll learn the fastest. But, there there is also some benefit to. expertise. So,

some of that like just to say that pick. one or two things that you're actually. excited to continue getting better at. for a long period of time. And so, then. maybe you do have to like. like try a bunch of different things. until you find the thing that like. really like gets you going. But, across all those different skills, they have similar core effects on the. brain. So, you don't have to do one. or both. You can just pick the one that. you enjoy the most. So, it's just about.

the struggle of trying to get better at. something, essentially. >> Yeah. Yeah. And, um my wife is learning. a new language right now. And, uh she's. she's been so excited about it. And, it's like it's really interesting cuz. she starts talking around the house in. French. And, uh and it's. one of those things where you're like I. was I'm watching her do it. She wasn't. doing it. And then, she's been doing it. over the last couple months. And, I'm. seeing this like excitement in this like. new project. And, we were talking about. it. about how that is one of the things.

that's very difficult to do, but. it's it's more complex than learning. because it's learning and interacting. It's not just learning. You're learning, but you have to. It requires like this back-and-forth. with another person. You have to. understand sentence structure. You have. to It's just like com- and especially. French is so different than English. There's There's so much weird [ __ ]. involved in it. But, you could see Like, I could see in her that like this is.

very stimulating to her mind. >> Yeah. And, it made me go, "Ah, man, I. should learn a language." But then I'm. like, "Fuck, where do you have the time. to learn a language?". But then I thought about like when I was. on social media all the time, I would. look down at my phone some days and it. would say, "Screen use today, 6 hours.". I'm like, "Fucking 6 hours?". >> your time is. Right. If you spent 6. hours just learning Spanish, how you'd. be fluent. I'd be able to go to a. taqueria and order in Spanish, you know? >> Yeah. It's like. we spend so much time doing nonsense.

that. anything that you can do that requires. your brain to be in that uncomfortable. state of um what is the what is this oh. it's this. uh is that this uh got it. You know, that that dance Mhm. that firing of the. synapses and and forcing your brain to. figure this this puzzle out. so many people don't have that. And I. see it in people that get stagnant where. they're doing the same thing every day.

Their job is fairly mundane and kind of. boring and maybe they like it, but. there's nothing stimulating about it. They're talking to the same boring ass. people. They don't exercise. They go. home, they watch TV. And then they shut. off and they do it all again. And then. you talk to them like 5, 10 years later. and it's almost like they've they're. slipping. >> Yeah. Like you see it. You can see it in. people that have mundane existences. Like their stimulation is so low that. their ability to be stimulated is low. I.

think that. that thing you describe. it is so baked into our society that. we've. started to believe that it's normal. Right. >> So when you [snorts] look at the. trajectory of cognitive function over. the over like your entire life, imagine. like a graph where on the one side you. have cognitive function. And it could be. something basic like processing speed. How quickly do you does your brain. process information? And on the bottom. is age, right? It tends to peak sometime around our.

sort of mid-20s to early 30s. Um it's. usually the peak on average tends to be. higher and later the more time we spend. in education. So, the more time we spend. essentially as professional learners, the more we can build that kind of final. capacity. After that, it's just sort of like uh an. average decrease downwards. And. uh uh a colleague of uh mine, Josh. Turknett, and I, he's a neurologist. We. wrote a paper a couple of a couple of. years ago where we.

theorized that. the reason why we see that decline. uh in at the population level in. cognitive [snorts] function from about. that age is because we go to work, we do. the same thing again and again and. again. Um and then. everything else in our life gets in the. way, um. and. we never spend that same time. investing in building our cognitive. capacities the way we did when we were. kids and when we were in school. And so, the decline is partly because we.

just stop doing that. So, the part you. know, one of the theories of aging. is that it's just a continuation of. development, like process of. development. And most of the processes. of development in the brain. are. uh refining connections based on the. environment and the stimulus the brain. receives. So, if you start removing. stimuli because you're no longer. engaging in these like cognitively. challenging things, the brain's going to. start removing connections. Hey, I don't. need that, right? I'm not I'm not using.

this part of my brain. And then as a. result, um you start to see decline. And. so, there are studies that show if you. have cog- if you have a very stimulating. job, it's very complex, problem-solving. skills, uh lots of social interactions, you have a slower rate of cognitive. decline as an adult and a and a lower. risk of dementia. You see. um in individuals who. uh continue to engage in reading writing. lectures, dancing, you know, a whole. bunch of hobbies, again, you see a. slowed rate of decline. So, some of what.

we just expect to happen with age is. because of the way we we we stop. engaging with the world and we stop. challenging ourselves. Well, it. completely makes sense, right? Like, if. you think about physical activity, it it. goes along the same kind of path. >> Exactly. You see I have friends, I'm 58, which is crazy to say. It sounds so old. Um but I have friends that are 58 that. are basically they're skeletons with. like meat hanging around various parts. of it. But my physical ability is very.

similar to what it was when I was in my. 30s. The only way that I could really. test it. is like physical competition, and I'm. not really interested in that. I don't. want to get hurt. But my capacity for. work is very similar. >> Yeah. And I know that because I force. it. You know, I I make myself do it. And. I would imagine the same thing is true. with. with the mind. I mean, it has to be. I. think it's all together. >> Yeah. Use it or lose it. >> Yeah. And if your mind doesn't have a.

a need to be constantly intrigued and. stimulated, like you get thing for. survival, right? One of the things. that's speculated, maybe I can ask you. about this cuz this is. one of I I think about this a lot. Like, what is ADHD? And I. whether or not it's actually a problem, I think it's a superpower. Because I'm. pretty sure I have it, you know, but yet. I can focus I'm very functional. I can. focus on things, and as long as I tire.

myself out from activity, um I can. relax, and I can concentrate on things, and I'm I'm very interested in certain. things, and I can lock into them and. concentrate, but if. if I was forced to be in a classroom. with a very boring teacher. >> [laughter]. >> teaching a subject I'm not that. interested in and I was a child, if I. had the wrong parents, luckily I didn't, I would be medicated, right? >> But I think that that is this ability to. focus on certain things like hyperfocus.

was probably a function of a persistent. hunter. Mhm. Right? Because if you. wanted to catch an animal, you couldn't. be a person that gives up quick. You had. to be a person that you you would keep. looking for tracks, you keep trying to. find sign, you're trying to figure out a. way like I've got to keep pushing one. more hour, we got 20 minutes of daylight. left, I've got to figure this out. Right? You you that thing had to be in.

you in order to be a successful hunter. So I. um I'm sure that that's that's part of. it. The the current picture of ADHD I. think is is quite complicated. So I have. family members with ADHD. When they. um then started on medication, they were. like, "Actually all of a sudden my brain. works." Right? So Right, but that. medication is Adderall. Right? If I took. Adderall, I would say the same [ __ ]. thing. I don't need a stimulant. But if. I took a stimulant right now, I'd be. like, "Dude, I'm so much better." So no,

but but you know what happens in in. certain individuals with ADHD, when you. give them stimulants. >> They calm down. >> They calm down. Right. So I think. there's a combination of multiple. things. Some is. um yes, like these can be very uh. beneficial traits in in the right. settings. But you also have to consider. that we're layering on um. a modern environment that's like bright. lights at night, a whole bunch of. caffeine and stimulants, right? And. yeah, of course some of it is I think um.

right, the teacher is boring and they're. like they're just not engaged because uh. you know, the majority of people with. ADHD can still focus, right? On things. that they're interested in focusing in. Yes. >> Um or on. >> Even without any kind of medication. >> Yeah, so but there's like a sliding. scale and I think there's a whole bunch. of different reasons why for one. individual they might experience. symptoms of ADHD or not. So, I think I. think it's complicated. Can I ask you. before you go any further in that ask. you how much of that is dependent on. physical activity? Like do we study ADHD.

based on whether someone is physically. active or not? Because look, if I'm not. physically active, I'm a mess. Like if. for something if something happened and. for some reason like. >> [snorts]. >> I got a court order, you're not allowed. to exercise for 6 months or you go to. jail. Like oh god. I'd probably be a. [ __ ] complete basket case, right? And. maybe I would have full on ADHD. Maybe I. wouldn't be able to concentrate on. anything. My brain would be bouncing all. over the place. Like how much of it is a. biological requirement that your body.

has to release energy? So, I think you can I would expand that. out even further than that because. physical activity is a core requirement. of our biology and physiology. >> Right. >> Um there's a there's a nice quote by. Iñigo San Millán, who's a you know, well-known exercise physiologist who. says that. um. exer- physical activity is. baked into our evolutionary um. development so much so that now we've.

had to invent exercise in order to like. prev- like to prevent what happens when. we don't move. So, it's the lack of movement is a. disease-causing. pro-aging sim- like situation. So, to. stop you there. Yeah. What if I mean or. do they when they treat kids with ADHD, do they take that into consideration? So, as I I'm not an ADHD researcher, so I I.

I genuinely don't know. But I would. think that before you would give someone. a stimulant maybe track and field. You. know what I mean? Yeah. Maybe play. badminton. Do something where you've got. to run around. >> Yeah. Where you like, "Ooh, oh boy, I. can focus now." I think I think that. that's I now again I would say that. that's needed for all kids regardless of. any potential diagnosis. So, of course, um we need I I think that should be. taken into consideration. Whether that's. going to be enough um for every kid, you.

know, hard to say. But, we know that all. humans require significant amounts of. physical activity just for their biology. to work properly. Right. >> So, certainly if that's not being taken. into account or it's not available or. it's not encouraged, there are a whole. host of conditions where that's going to. become a problem. Well, it just only. makes sense, right? And. I mean, this has been talked about. forever. The Stoics used to talk about. it, this quieting the mind. >> Mhm. I mean, samurai's used to talk. about it, like that physical activity. Just what, you know, one of the main.

benefits the Chinese used for kung fu. thousands of years ago, quieting the. mind. >> Mhm. And the propensity that we have in the. society, this. direction of almost immediately. prescribing a medication for something, when it seems like what you're what. you're doing is you're dulling a. biological requirement. You're you're. dulling the impact of this biological. requirement that you're not needing. Why wouldn't we prescribe exercise first. and then think about those things? Like,

for instance, like hormone replacement. Well, if you have a good doctor, an. ethical doctor, that is working with. someone and they they find out you have. low testosterone. One of the first. things they do is adjust your diet. >> Mhm. They say, "Well, you have so much. food in your diet that causes. inflammation. You have a very high rate. of complex carbohydrates. You have a a. lot of sugar in your diet. You drink too. much alcohol. You smoke cigarettes. Let's remove those things first and then.

let's see what happens. And then you. increase your protein, and you start. drinking water, and you go, "Oh, look, your hormone levels are going up. naturally." Well, because you're a. [ __ ] poisoning yourself, right? So, wouldn't you. I mean, why don't they prescribe. exercise for kids? Other than the fact. that you can't make money off of it, wouldn't it be a good idea? Um. So, I think that all kids should. absolutely get. uh you know, several hours, ideally, of.

of movement and physical activity of. different kinds every day. Um. part of the problem, it's not that. scientists or doctors don't think that. it's that's important. Right now, the systems that we have make. it very difficult for those things uh to. be to be put in place. Right? So, making. sure that every kid has the time and the. resources to be able to exercise, and. like the the right kind of people so. that they know what they're doing, and.

they're they're supervised. Um and, you. know, it's the same with. uh so, let's say with testosterone. replacement if your if your. testosterone's low. Like most Right, the the primary cause, or one of the most common cause of of. low testosterone in men, is right, that. combination of metabolic disease, being. sedentary, poor quality diet. Like, we. know that. But. creating the systems that allow people. to change those things, and then supporting them to do that, is.

really hard. Nobody Nobody has solved. the behavior change problem, right? If. we think about If we think about the. modern environment, um. and we think about what that drives us. to do and not do, but we know we we have all this. information, right? We know how to. prevent these diseases. We know how to. reverse many of them, and a lot of it is. driven by lifestyle and the environment. But. supporting people to change those. behaviors, and make sure they have the. resources and time to do it. That's.

really hard. I nobody solved that. problem yet. Boy, that seems like a. problem that's easy to solve. It's just based on personal. responsibility. No, but it's not. >> But if you can tell someone, this is. your requirement for the day. I want you. to run 1 mile. I want you to do 100. push-ups and 100 sit-ups and write it. down. But how are you So, first of all, um. >> But you're saying something You're. saying it like it's impossible. I'm not. saying very difficult. >> saying it's I'm not saying it's. impossible. I think that those of us for. whom this has become a part of our.

personality and our and our lives, like. like you and me, of course it's like of. course you just do that. Like you just. go for the run. You do the 100 push-ups. Right. But for people who. like have never had anything like this. and it's never been a part of their. environment, it's never been a part of. who they are, changing that actually requires a ton of. work um and coaching. And it's actually. it's actually really difficult. When I. When I say it's difficult. >> but it's totally doable physically. It's. not like I'm asking you to breathe under.

water. Like people have done it and you. can draw inspiration from like my friend. Jelly Roll. All right, you know Jelly. Roll, the musician? Jelly Roll was 500. lb and he's lost 300 lb and he did it. with no Ozempic, no GLP-1s. He just started walking and started. cutting sugar out of his diet and slowly. but sure not even slowly. Over the. course of just a couple of years, he. shrunk to like a normal-sized human. It's [ __ ] amazing. But he drew.

inspiration from a lot of other people. You know, one of them he's he's good. friends with my good friend Cam Hanes, who's a ultra marathon runner and. endurance athlete. And so, you know, he's taken him on runs and worked out. with them and helped him and just. watching YouTube videos and just all he. started doing was just walking. You. know, where he couldn't walk up hills. and he would just walk around his block. and walk up the hill when he didn't want. to do it. And he did it. It's like it's. not it you can do it. You just have to.

start doing it. And I think the starting. doing it is the most difficult. I don't. think it's difficult to do it once you. gather momentum. Cuz there's a there's a. thing that happens with people when they. start doing something, they get excited, and then they look forward to doing it. again. As long as you don't like you. don't take a guy who's 500 lb and say, "Today we're going to do 100 push-ups, 100 sit-ups. We're going to do. kettlebells, and then we're going to do. laps around the the block." You can't do. it. It's not possible. But you could. just go for a walk. And then tomorrow. we're going to go for a walk a little.

bit further. And then in 2 weeks, we're. going to double that walk. And then in 3. weeks we know we're going to incorporate. some light bodyweight squats. And along. the way we're going to adjust your diet. And then write these things down. Like. this is it's not impossible. So it's just they need motivation. So I. I I agree. It's it's not impossible. Um but you know, I've worked with. several digital health companies who are. working in the behavior change space. And. people don't need more information. Like. they know that they need to to walk.

more. And they know that they could eat. better. And they know that they could. sleep better. Right. But the the process. of trying to first of all understand. like how should I do that? What should I. do that? When should you know, what when. when should I do that? And then right? Like some people may absolutely not have. the time or the environment maybe they. live somewhere where actually you know. what? They don't want to be walking. around outside, right? >> Right. That's that's. relatively common. Or um they don't have a kitchen, right?

So then how do you how do you cook food? Like how how do you navigate that that. food environment? So I I agree I I. completely agree with you. All of this. is doable. It's just that different people are. going to need different levels of. support to do that initially, right? Gain that momentum, understand. understand um how how that feels, um how. it changes them. And right now, the majority of people. don't have access to that that kind of. support. And I. absolutely hope that that changes,

right? The food environment changes so. that it's much easier to change the way. that you eat. And that the built. environment changes so that it's it's. much easier to go out and and have a. walk. Um and and and do a lot of that. Um so, I think that we just have to consider. that it's both, right? There's there's. an individual component, right? But. there's also like a societal component. where we have to make this as as easy. for people as possible and sort of like. build it into their lives such as they. are. Okay. So, let's consider the. societal aspect of it. Let's consider. the like how would you implement.

something? Like let's let's imagine that. you get appointed to some committee. that's in charge of. try trying to facilitate this growth and. improvement in people. What would you. do? So, I think you need um. a few a few different parts to it. One. uh great part would be so say through.

you know, if you could dramatically. improve quality and access of like. education at all levels and make. physical activity just be a regular part. of that. That has been slowly removed. from many educational curriculums around. the world over over time, right? >> So, bring some of that back and it just. becomes part of day-to-day life. And then you would also teach people. the skills involved in some of these. these other things. So, like teach teach. people how how to cook and and how to do. that within the bounds of what they have.

access to, their you know, cultural preferences, dietary preferences, you know, financial. you know, financial abilities, that kind. of stuff. >> Well, that should be a part of a school. curriculum. >> Yeah, abs- absolutely. Just like you. should teach kids about taxes and all. these all these other things. And so I. think if you start early on and you do. this with um. sort of curiosity and and skill. building, then you release people out into the you. know, that that that I think that's the. that's the place to start because when. you get out into the real world and.

you're working three jobs and you live. somewhere where you don't want to go for. a walk outside and like you can barely. get 6 hours of sleep every night and you. know, you've got three kids that you're. trying to look after. saying, "Oh hey, you should do 100. push-ups every day." Like that's not. going to happen. Like other things are. going to happen that that are more. important. Um. so so I think there's that part maybe. the the skill building part. Then it's. thinking about like how people have. opportunities to do those things. Um and. then I would think about. you know, access to high quality um you know,

health care, psychological care, like. these things that like some sometimes. people need help that they can't get. access to or it's expensive or whatever. Um so I think giving more of that so. that they get support when they need it. is definitely it would definitely help. as well. I think one great way would be. to devise a website, make like maybe. like even a government website where you. uh put in like your body weight, when. was your last physical activity, what.

this that the other thing all the what's. your diet and then they implement a. program and you could follow along with. a bunch of other people that are doing. the same thing and post your results. So. you have a community aspect to it. You. have uh. a dedicated program that you can follow. so you don't have to think about, "Oh, I. don't want to do that. I don't want to. do this." Like it'll just tell you, "Just do this. Just do this." Oh, you. weigh 400 lb, you're 39 years old, you. haven't worked out in 10 years. Okay,

here's here's day one. Yeah. And follow. along, post your weight, post your what. you're eating. I mean that I mean and with AI. I mean that's one of the good things. about an LLM, right? With AI, you could. ask it to formulate adjustments. Yeah. And you could say, "Okay, what nutrients. should I be consuming? What How much. protein do I actually need? How much How. many calories do I need? How many. calories are in this and that and you. know, how what is a How much protein do.

I get from, you know, 20 oz of broccoli. or whatever the [ __ ] it is?" You know. what I mean? Yeah. So. when you look at some of the most. successful. trials of behavior change and most of. them are based around weight loss. studies, right? That that's that's a. very typical way to do it. Um. when you see when when you want somebody. to change um their behavior and feel. feel good about it. Um one of the sort of. uh constructs is self-determination. theory, you probably heard of, right? Humans need three things: autonomy,

um competence, and relatedness. So. autonomy is the like I am in charge of. my life and I'm in charge of my. decisions. So what are the things that I. want to work on today, right? I have. some choice there. Uh competence, like how do I help. somebody feel like they know what. they're doing? Like a lot of the hurdles. with um exercise or diet is like, "I. don't know what I'm doing." And like. this guy says that I need to do sprints. and this guy says I need to lift weights. and this guy says I need to do x amounts. of zone two, but I like what does that.

even mean? Like Right. >> I even know what I'm supposed to look So. how do you build competence in people? And then relatedness, that's the point. that that you were making, right? You. have a group, like you support each. other. Uh maybe you do stuff you do. stuff together. So um one of the most. successful weight loss trials of all. time was called the BROAD study. And one of the things they did, so they. they lost a lot of weight and they kept. it off and so most weight loss studies. people re get regain it afterwards. is they they met several times a week. They They like potlucks, group.

activities, like they helped each other. >> Yeah, community. >> Yeah, community. Um. the one downside of that is that there. are there were there was there was an. app, I can't remember the name of it, that that tried to build that for. exercise. So like you'd have these. buddies and they'd be your. accountability buddies. But what happened was that when people. started to slip. they left the platform much faster cuz. they were like, "I don't want my buddies. to know that I'm not doing what they are. supposed to be helping me do." So you. kind of have to like build in multiple. buffers and different ways to help.

people depending on what it is that. motivates them or not. I mean, we have public education, right? We have universities, we have public. high schools and middle schools. Why. don't we have public gyms? Why don't I mean, how much money would. it cost to have community gym set up. where you don't have to have money to. join, where it's paid for by your taxes? You're not talking about something. that's. out outside of. you know, like. financially that wouldn't be feasible. Yeah. It's not that hard to do.

>> So I think that was the I don't know. what the financial model is now, but. that was the the idea of like the YMCAs. and things, right? Yeah, so like it. becomes a a community focus point, like. my wife grew up in North Carolina, so. like she talks about how they were down. the YMCA all the time, like playing. basketball and like. >> to have a YMCA when I lived in Boston. that I used to go to. It was really. cheap. They had weights, they had a a. track, they had a they had a swimming. pool, they had all sorts of stuff. It. was way cheaper than a regular gym. And. they had classes you could take. Yeah. And there was something very similar. close to where I. grew up in the UK, just like for a.

couple of pounds you go do a. a some kind of martial arts class or. something. So like. >> that, too. Does Austin even have a YMCA? Yeah, definitely. Yeah. Oh, yeah, there's one there's like a big one. downtown. I've driven past it once, like. big glass front, like a I don't know. what it costs. >> does it cost to get into the YMCA in. Austin? Let's find that out. I mean, that should be paid for by. taxes. Why I I if we pay for all this. other [ __ ] that we don't need, why don't. why don't, you know When when a big.

hurdle is accessibility and. >> One year. new progress pack. Join today. How much? Uh. $125 value for a year? Is that what it. says? How much does it cost? >> say how much it costs. What does it cost? Join today. How much. are That's also the secret of most. memberships of for gyms. They don't list. their prices online. >> Yeah, but it's a YMCA. Click on join. join today. >> I'm telling you that once you to come in. and say hi so they can talk to you. Oh, is that what it is? Every That's how.

everyone works. But it's probably. cheaper than most. Well, why don't you. put it into. Perplexity or something like that? Say, "What is How much does it cost to join a. YMCA?". Here we go. Let's guess. How much do you. think it costs? 20 bucks a month? 50? Yeah, I I think it can't be much. more than a Planet Fitness, right? Or. else so. >> Planet Fitness is pretty cheap, but the. thing about Planet Fitness is they kind. of the a lot of these big gyms, not just. singling out Planet Fitness, they kind. of hope that you don't show up. >> Oh, yeah, yeah. That's the big Yeah,

yeah. You're generally looking at $40. per month depending on age and household. type. That's not too bad. Yeah, but for. some people that's that's that's a lot. of money, right? >> 40 bucks a month? >> Yeah, like that's a good chunk of their. food bill. So, I there there should be some sliding. scale where this becomes very very. heavily subsidized. Yeah. Or free. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, ideally. I mean, why. wouldn't it be free? Yeah, I think it. should be. But then homeless people go. in there and shower. There are Well, I. mean, I'm okay with that, too. Depends. on who they are. I mean, if they shower.

>> with some of them. You know, [ __ ] crazy people [ __ ]. in the. in the in the shower. Uh Blue Cross Blue Shield, ba ba ba ba. ba, many health insurance plans offer. gym membership. uh through reimbursements, discounts, or. programs like Active Fit or Global Fit. Benefits can include $20 to $400 annual. reimbursements. Yes, so some people can use their health. insurance to get some of that fee. covered. >> Okay, well that's nice. But the thing is. again, it's just like Planet Fitness or. any of these places,

the the thing is like they want to. recruit you and then you go and you're. like, "Okay." And then you never go. again. >> Yeah, yeah. Yeah. But we genuinely want. people to go. Like that's that's the. whole idea. Well, the thing is like. there's one thing like for someone and. I've taken friends to gyms before they. don't work out and they're like, "What. do I do?" They have no idea what to do. Classes. Yeah. Classes is what should. be. It should be classes. Learn a new. skill, move, make a friend, like so much. amazing stuff happens in that kind of. stuff, I think. >> and and they should have multiple.

different classes available at the same. time. Right? There should be a class for. people that have done nothing. Like, "Okay, these are dumbbells. This is the. Pick up a light one. I'm going to show. you how to do a shoulder press." And. then it should be for, you know, more. advanced people, intermediate people, something. And a whole whole range of. different skills, yoga, Zumba, Pilates, Tai Chi. Slightly different not dumbbell. weights, but in Austin they have a bunch. of public free gym equipment in. different parks.

>> Playgrounds and parks, yeah. That. stuff's great. Well, in New York City. has a whole Look at these guys. Look at. Look at staring at each other. Talking. [ __ ] But I think one of the problems is. that. >> [snorts]. >> um. Well, first of all, like a lot of people. might just like look at that and be. like, "What do I do?" What do I do with. that? And then the second is that uh. a lot of what we see around fitness and. movement is kind of the extremes, right? They're idolized, professional athletes, like this is what the best of the best. do. And we often we internalize this idea.

that that's what we need to do. And if. we're not doing that, then we're not. doing anything. Right. Whereas. all the data suggests that literally any. type of movement above what you're doing. right now is beneficial, cardiovascular. health, um cognitive health, dementia. risk. >> Yeah. So, I think some of it is just. like letting people know and having. people understand that it doesn't take. that much to move the needle. And then. when they start to do a little bit, right? You you get get a bit of a bug, maybe you enjoy it. You find a thing. that you enjoy, you do more of it. And. so I that that's part of it, too. Like.

having people understand that it doesn't. take that much. to really start, you know, having having. an impact. Yeah, and it's also for a lot. of people, this is a a society that. really emphasizes quick fixes on things. And it's not a quick thing. It's you. have to trust in a process. And so that. has to sort of be. that has to be people have to be. educated to that. That has to be taught. to you. Like this is a process. And. you're on a process, you should be a. very excited about being on this.

process. It it's going to be weird. because it's going to take a long time. for you to see any results. But that. long time, like in that in that time. period, you will eventually see results. And then you'll be excited, you'll feel. better, you'll have more energy, it'll. help every aspect of your life. You just. got to do it. One of the. one of the things that I I like when I. talk about. movement in particular. or exercise and say cognitive function.

is that you will start to see benefits. relatively quickly. So. if you go and do a 6-second max sprint a. couple of times, right? And there are. studies that show this, you will. acutely, like immediately see an. improvement in cognitive function. Better blood flow to the brain, you've. created arousal, which is really. important for focus and attention. Um if you you know, go out go for a walk. outside, right? You will sleep better that night. So. you'll feel better the next day. And so.

yes, you're absolutely right that. this is a lifelong thing, right? You. can't just do it for a couple of months. and then. hope that it's going to translate to the. for decades to come. But you can see. immediate benefits if you start to do. some of this stuff and you can and you. can feel it very quickly. So, I think. that. that's that's going to be important. because not everybody is going to is. going to feel in the position to invest. in their future selves. >> Right. Right. So, if if you start to see. benefits straight away, you're more. likely to keep going with it. Okay, so.

that's for people where we were just I. mean, I'm glad we covered it, but we're. essentially talking about people that. don't know what to do. >> Mhm. For people who [snorts] do know. what to do, you said you work with a lot. of Formula 1 athletes and what do you do. for like what is. Formula 1 is fascinating to me. I've been to the the COTA racetrack. We're actually putting up a studio. We're going to have a studio at COTA. We're going to have a second studio at. the racetrack. And the idea is to take. people around the racetrack. I think it. would be like stimulate their mind and. then come in and do a podcast. It'd be a.

lot of fun. Right? It'd be like you'd be. like racing like your mind you'd be like. woo. Um. that is. an incredible sport where it's fractions. of a second, split-second decisions, your ability to react has to be like. incredibly fast. Like have you ever seen. the thing where they drop things and you. have people. Lewis Hamilton is like better at anybody. than anybody at it. He's a [ __ ]. >> [laughter]. >> intense. Um. what do you do with them? So, you. already have people that are primed,

right? They're the best in the world, but they are constantly looking for an. additional edge. What are you doing for. them? >> Yeah, so there's um a few things there. Um. my work with Formula 1 drivers happens. mainly through a company called Hintsa. Performance. Uh it was founded by Aki. Hintsa, h i n t s a, um named after Aki Hintsa, who was a. Finnish orthopedic surgeon. He worked with Haile Gebrselassie, with. Mika Häkkinen, who was two-time Formula. 1 world champion.

And then now this is like a big sports. enterprise and I'm the head of scientist. for motorsport. So, that's all uh. multiple categories from like karting. and kids up to up to Formula 1. We work. with several Formula 1 drivers. And we uh provide coaching and medical. services. Each driver, or most of the. drivers, have a coach, right? So, like. you know when you watch Formula 1, there's like. somebody holding the umbrella, holding. the helmet, right? That's that's usually. that well, that's often one of our. coaches. They're usually uh a strength.

and conditioning specialist, or they. might be a physio, or a nutritionist. Like they they have a ton of, you know, really high-level skills. And they're. there. every day, right? They do the sleep, they do the training. Like they're. traveling with them the whole time. They. sort of. can manage as much of their of their. life as possible. And. when you're thinking about. that level of of skill, the. the stimulus part has has taken care of. itself, right? One of the reasons why.

these guys are so good is because it's. all they've done. every day for. uh you know, two plus decades. Four. decades if you're if you're Lewis. Hamilton, or close to that. So, and that's slowly building these. skills, first in karting, then in these. different uh Formula categories, Formula. 3, Formula 2, um up into up into Formula. 1. And so, the kinds of things that we might work. on. And so, like I'm helping the. coaches, working with the drivers. We. have like a a uh a a huge team, uh you.

know, uh doctor who's uh who works with. a bunch of Olympic athletes as well. And so, it's it's a combination of. are there any individual performance. limiters? So, we might do some blood. tests, look at nutrient status, and. various other things. Um you know, make. sure they're they're really on top of. that with their with their diets. Um. but then. in that kind of world, and like. I'm sure you experienced this yourself. Everybody's got a thing for you to try, or a thing for you to do, right? Like.

you're constantly being bombarded with. the latest greatest technology and like. this guy wants to study this thing. So, a lot of what we do is. like. be really careful about the things that. get added and maybe even take like take. stuff away if we need to. Like what are. we what are we trying to work on? What. are we trying to build? What does this. one driver need? Cuz they're all very. they're all very different. They need a. a different you know they have different. diets, they have different training. programs, they have different.

warm-up strategies for when they get in. the car. Um and so a lot of what we end up doing. is focusing on on the other side, right? So, if you stimulate your brain, it adapts. when you rest and recover afterwards. So, because they're. essentially jet-lagged 9 months of the. year, uh right they're in a different. country every week. Um that's a factor, right? That's a huge factor. >> Huge factor. And like on top of like. every race weekend, they've got to go. and meet sponsors, they've got to do.

media days, right? They're constantly. moving. So, it's what can we do to. maintain their level of performance. throughout the season? This is something. that the coaches do a ton of work in. like how can we what kind of exercise. and and how can we do targeted training. to like maintain performance throughout. the throughout the year? And then the other part is how can we. get as much recovery as possible? Because if we want them to adapt to all. the work they're doing and come back. each weekend at at the top of their game. or as close as possible, we need to get.

them to rest and recover. and come back and do it again. So, often. we're not focusing on the stimulus part. We might be in driver training, we might. be thinking about how can we develop. cognitive skills and these kinds of. things and these drive a physical. skills. In. in Formula 1, often it's how can we get. these guys to recover better? How can we. get these guys to sleep better? And then that that might be technology, but it might also be, you know, just. like how can we nail the basics again. and again and again? Make sure they're. getting enough time in bed, right? Especially when you're traveling a. bunch, that gets that gets really.

difficult. So, we're often focused on. the on the recovery side and how we. track like how do we collect those data, how do we know when something's starting. to slip and get on top of it early. That's the kind of stuff we tend to. focus on. So, let's talk about the jet. lag aspect. What are the strategies for. mitigating jet lag and like how do you. when like let's say if they fly in for a. race, like if they're going from Europe. to the United States and they have to. race, how many days in advance do they. arrive and how do they shift their.

circadian rhythm and eliminate jet lag? What are the strategies? Yeah, um there's. the the. the time. for them like the number of days they. come before the race will will depend on. how long it was since the last race plus. what other things they've got going on, but they'll it's often like two or three. days, right? They'll they'll try and get. it get come in the beginning of the week. at least like Monday, Tuesday if the. race is then going to be on Sunday. >> [sighs]. >> And then. as much as possible.

you might start to try and shift things. earlier. So, shift your. light exposure so that it aligns more. closely with your destination a couple. of days before you travel. Uh shift your. sleep if you can, shift um. exercise and caffeine timing again. because those things. um shift circadian rhythm so that so you. can kind of get closer to to what what. you're going to do when you land. Um and so those are those are the. probably the primary tools is um. exercise, light, caffeine. You can use.

um some of them use melatonin. Um. you can also change uh when you eat. So, like um food timing is a zeitgeber, it's. a fancy word for like time giver, like. helps to drive circadian rhythm. So, um often when you're when you're flying, they'll give you a meal that's happening. like. in the middle of the night in the time. that you're going to land, right? So, often you might try and. avoid eating while flying and then have.

your next meal in time with like a. normal meal timing when you land. >> I've heard that it one of the things to. help with jet lag is just eliminate. meals when you're flying, period. There's something about eating, even if. it doesn't have anything to do with the. the time like say if you're flying from. Los Angeles to New York, one way to. eliminate [clears throat] jet lag they. say is just to not eat on the flight. So, you. >> Six-hour flight, don't eat at all. Usually I think most of that is to do. with circadian circadian timing because.

you're usually flying at a time when you. wouldn't normally eat. Or like you're. often like they give you dinner at like. 9:00 p.m. or it's even midnight, right? So, if you you see But is that all it. is? Because what what was explained to. me is that just there's something about. your body processing food when you're. flying that actually exacerbates jet. lag. So, I can't think of a. you know, other than the fact that. other than the fact that you I mean. you're obviously. you know, sat still for long periods of. time which might not normally happen at.

that time of day as well. Um I think the the majority of it in. terms but certainly in terms of jet lag. plans is thinking about the timing of. meals relative to circadian rhythm. because you normally, you know, break. your first fast at a certain time of. day, have dinner at a certain time of. day. So, I think most of it is related. to circadian timing. >> Okay. Um what about rigorous exercise? Cuz one. of my strategies, like say if I have to. fly to London or something like that and. I want to avoid jet lag, I immediately. go to the gym. It's the first thing I. do. I put my stuff in the hotel room, I.

go right down to the gym. >> Yeah. No negotiation whatsoever and I. get in at least an hour. I have to. That's a that's a great way That's a. great way to. to to help to offset some of the jet lag. cuz you you start to tell your body oh. hey, like even though it's. whatever midnight in Austin, right? This. is the time when I want to be awake. So, it starts to advance the circadian. phase. So, exercise, uh some people like. to do um cold exposure, right? It does a. similar thing, right? Increases. adrenaline, increases heart rate,

increases arousal. Um can do it with. light, can do it with caffeine. And so, like some combination of those things. can definitely help. Um okay. So, there's the sleep adjusting the sleep, there's the light exposure, there's. exercise and food. Is there anything. else? Like what what kind of. supplementation is effective to mitigate. that? Yeah, so um they might use they. might use melatonin. Um. one of the. one of the issues that we have. it's not an issue. It it it makes. perfect sense is that um.

the the supplements that we use with the. drivers have to be third-party tested, right? NSF for sports certified, informed informed sports certified. So, some of the things that we might like to. try Is that because the drivers get. tested? Cuz the drivers get tested. >> And what do they ban? What's banned? Everything. It's the same as what it's. like like all the all the water drug. drug states it's the same. They're under. water regulations. So, um Are they allowed to use peptides? Um it's it's it's a gray area. In. general, I don't believe I don't believe.

anybody does and we certainly don't. recommend recommend it for for that. reason cuz we just don't know what's in. there. Are they tested for peptides? Um so, they're not tested for peptides. Then they take them. Ooh, damn. Uh well, it that's [laughter]. it you know, it depends on whether. there's there's actually a peptide that. has good high-quality evidence in. humans. >> Well, there's also you should get them. from a real good compounding pharmacy. Make sure you're getting it from a. quality source, which is the real. problem with peptides today is that. since they're not regulated, there's a. lot of gray market. There's a lot of.

real, you know, [ __ ] corporations. that are selling you stuff that's. nonsense and even things that are. tainted. So, yeah, so so so the main. thing that you're you're worried about. is contamination. Like what. >> else have they put in there, right? So, make it to to to get better performance. >> as supplements. >> Yeah, same thing as supplements. But, in reality, like, there aren't many. peptides where I'm like where I would. say or I actually couldn't think of any. where I'm like, this will have a a. definite. benefit based on high-quality studies in.

humans, right? Those studies just don't. exist. Um and so, until we get to that. point, plus the the sort of like the the. the the the gray area of that the sort. of legality of it. >> Mhm. Um we we tend to focus on, you know, the real I mean, it's the. basics, but we know that they work. But, there are peptides that have shown to. increase sleep and increase REM sleep. In humans? Like Like which one? >> Boy, I wish I could tell you because. they I they talked about it, but I never.

tried it. Um I know Tom Segura is on it. Um see if we can find what it is, Jamie. It's. uh boy, it's [ __ ] with my head. I. >> D I P? Is that what it is? >> I'm asking. No, um. >> Delta sleep-inducing peptide. But, like, I I want to see the. randomized controlled trial. I have to. I I can't I I couldn't recommend it. unless I know that it's third-party. tested, it's legal, and there's a. high-quality trial in humans. Like, all. those things have to align. >> The high-quality The problem with.

high-quality studies is they take time. and money. And these aren't FDA. approved, so you're not going to get. those things. But, that doesn't mean. they don't work. And this is the problem. is that like you could try it, and then. if you show benefit like with In that in. that setting, I can't try it. You can't? >> No. Well, you can't because of Formula 1. drivers and all this stuff, but like. >> So, with. the way Drug Free Sport works, which is. the governing body of the UFC drug. testing, um this they they don't allow. anything, unfortunately. But, there are.

studies that show that BPC 157 includes. increases tissue recovery and helps you. heal from Not in humans. True. But, there's look same thing with the COVID. vaccine. They weren't tested in humans. either before they started trying them. Um I there were some there was for the. the first wave of COVID-19 vaccines. there were some some pretty good quality. trials in humans. >> Right, but all it showed is that it. showed an antibody. It didn't show that. it Oh no, that against hospitalizations. and death. It in in the in the in the. first waves. That we could argue about. that because it's very sketchy.

>> Okay. It's very sketchy data that has. been disproven. I think that those I I. think those first waves were high. quality. Um I don't think I don't think. we've seen this data. >> that it. decreased. hospitalization and death? >> It was stopping transmission and. infection, which was just a lie. Oh, that's that's what they claimed. That So. it's all sketchy because it was based on. profit. The whole thing is weird. It's a. weird one. It's a weird one to cover. I. can't. I don't I can't Yeah, I can't talk about.

my social. >> Maybe it's not a good example. >> Yeah, yeah, yeah. But with there's. plenty of anecdotal evidence, uh. especially with professional athletes. with BPC 157 and TB 500 particularly for. tissue injuries, for recovering quicker. from tissue injuries. So I know. I know there's anecdote. I know that. people say it benefits them. in the. environments that I operate in, that's. not enough. >> I understand. Yeah. You're an actual. doctor. >> [laughter]. >> Dr. Tommy Wood, he's legit. I'm just a.

dork. I'm allowed to just say try it, [ __ ] it. Um but so. with drug-free sport, um like with the. UFC, they're they use Thorne. supplements. That's what the UFC. recommends, which are very good, third-party tested. But so you have to. find whether it's Pure Encapsulations or. some legitimate, well-proven, established company that provides you. with third-party tested supplements. What supplements have been shown like. for I would have let's stick with. Formula 1 drivers. Reaction time is critical. Um your your.

ability to function at a very high. cognitive state, right? You're you're. thinking constantly. You're always. calculating in movements. What. supplements are these guys taking that. benefit them? So, the. When you think about complex skill. performance, and like there's a there's. like a whole chapter on this in in the. book, the the most important driver. is.

arousal, right? How aroused is your. physiology? And are you set up with the. right level of sympathetic activation, noradrenaline, adrenaline, cortisol to. kind of get the the the best level of. performance. >> And don't let any one of those overwhelm. the other ones. >> Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So, the the the. curve is bell-shaped, right? It's the. Yerkes-Dodson curve, named after a. couple of guys who actually did studies. in mice, um that then translated. actually surprisingly well over to. humans. Um and so what it says is that.

if you're sort of under aroused, you're. kind of disengaged, a bit of lethargic, right? You're you're not really going to. perform well. If you're over aroused, you're sweaty, anxious, right? Again, you're not going to be able to sort of. pay attention to the task. So, there's. this sweet spot. At the top of the. curve, you're capable of flow states, clutch states, which is where you can. perform at your best, but it's still. like it's it's hard work. Um and so, what you're trying to do is get the guys. to the top of that curve. Um and this for many involves some.

element of routine, right? Knowing that. I've done the thing that I know that's. going to make me feel good. And so, it's. a combination often of the things that. we've already mentioned. They might use. um some warm-up sprints. They might use. music. They might use bright light. They. might use breath work. Um they might use. cold. Um certainly if it if it's going. to be a a hot race, they might um do. some pre pre-cooling uh to bring down. core temperature that improves endurance. >> they bring like cold plunges to Formula. 1 days? >> Yeah. Yeah, >> So, some of them have some of them have. a like a a cold plunge or you know, you.

can you can fill a a wheelie bin with uh. water and ice and jump in that. Um it. doesn't need to be that cold actually. So, for. um increasing endurance performance, like 20 minutes at around 20° C or like. 60-ish um Fahrenheit, that significantly. improves um like endurance. Is there. benefit to 20 minutes at 60°. uh Fahrenheit versus 3 minutes at 34°? So, the the problem is that when you get.

too cold, you can actually. um. decrease cognitive performance. So, there's a there's a fine line when it's. really cold that what you want to do is. you want to decrease core temperature. without negatively affecting cognitive. function. And so, that's easier to. manage at slightly less cold. temperatures. I see. I see. I see. I. see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I. see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I. see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I. see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I see. I. see. >> um and it's so what I was a rower uh in. college. So, like a a 2K test on a. rowing machine. Like after that, my. brain doesn't work for like hours after.

that. And so, like very um. you know, very cold ice baths for. several minutes, for some people that. can decrease cognitive function. So, you you can find a sweet spot. Um. That makes sense. That That makes a lot. of sense cuz um my mind is very bad. after brutal workouts. >> Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Like if I if I have a. really hard workout and I come in and do. a podcast, there's there's a moment. where I like uh um. It's just not firing. >> Yeah. Yeah, and that and that's perfect. and that's that's that's normal. We know. that. If you do very fatiguing exercise,

for a period of time, you experience a. decline in cognitive function. >> light exercise stimulates you. >> Exactly. So, like one of the best um. studied um. exercise modalities to improve cognitive. function is literally just like a. 20-minute jog, right? Just a light jog. >> Exactly. But you're always kind of. warming everything up, you know, increasing sympathetic activation, increasing release of all those um. hormones we mentioned, and that. increases arousal. That That improves. cognitive performance. So, they might be. doing some of those things. in the car, right? There there will be.

differing types of caffeine use. depending on sensitivity and and timing. Are they taking it in pill form so that. they could regulate it quickly or. accurately, rather? Uh yeah, so. some do. Sometimes pills, sometimes. gels. Some guys just like a cappuccino. Some might use like green tea because. like the theanine in them might balance. some of like the jitters that you can. get with caffeine. Um some some people find creatine. stimulating or mildly stimulating, so. they might take creatine before they get.

in the car. Well, there's been studies. on creatine and cognitive performance. that are really interesting. >> Particularly in the setting of sleep. deprivation. Yeah. And so, when they're jet lagged, like I think that that that would make. sense. There are some newer. caffeine-related compounds that if we. can get them when they're. third-party tested, you know, some may. try those. So, theacrine or tea crine and paraxanthine, which is a a metabolite of caffeine. Um. Some of they they may have some fewer of.

the like anxiety-promoting, high blood. pressure, high heart rate effects, but. maintain some of the cognitive effects, especially in combination with caffeine. So, you have a little bit less caffeine. plus a bit of those. They're harder to get sort of. third-party tested and stuff, but and. the some of the evidence is newer. Um. but that that's looking sort of. promising as as another thing that that. people might try. You mentioned. theanine, which is a nootropic. There's. quite a few different ones that people. enjoy. You know, um. uh beta choline, there's a a bunch of.

different ones. Like do do Formula One. drivers do they supplement with that. kind of thing? So, um so you think you. like alpha GPC? Like Yeah, yeah, so like. it's a choline type of choline that's. like uh preferentially turned into. acetylcholine. Um and acetylcholine is really important. for like focus and attention. Um. some of that stuff isn't isn't regularly. used like main mainly because. it's hard to get a third-party tested uh.

source. Is it really? Yeah. Pla- Like. most of the things that you take that. there probably isn't a or that anybody. would take that there might not be a an. NSF for sport uh certified version. There's very few companies that do that. routinely for all their supplements. God, you'd think that that would be. really. accessible because nootropics are so. common now. So, but so there's that plus. there's the. um. when we're working with different. drivers, they each have very unique. needs. So, it's trying to it's a combination of.

what do I think is really going to move. the needle. and not overcorrect. I think most. coaches I've spoken to in Formula 1 have. a story where their driver. had three espressos before he got in the. car and then he overcooked the first. corner, right? >> Right. Right. Um so it it's a really. tricky balance of trying to make sure. that they can. um. systematically get in the zone to. perform well in the car without sort of. pushing them too far over the. over the other side. And so that's where. supplements become trickier because.

it's very easy to downregulate. um if you've overcooked it. um through some of those physiological. means, right? I can do some breath work. or something to kind of calm myself. down. But if I've like stuffed myself. full of caffeine, it's it's it's it's. it's going to be hard to like come back. from that and then you sort of step in. the car and it could cause some issues. So, we tend to focus on some of the. physiological stuff and then may maybe a. little bit of supplementation um because. that seems to be the the sort of like. best balance across those different. needs. Well, it seems like Formula 1. would be a great place to develop.

framework for this because there's so. much money involved. It's such a massive. sport and you would think that they. would have that dialed in. Like you're. 168 lb, this is when you woke up, this. is what you need right now, you need. this much protein, this much this, stop. eating x amount of hours before the. race. So, yes, um. we do a lot of that, but it's different. for each guy, and nobody wants to share. what they've got. Oh, it's that kind.

>> Yeah, yeah. So, like even even like your. your biggest rival is your teammate in. many respects, right? Because you're. That's the only guy you can go up. against truly head-to-head cuz you're in. the same car. Right. >> So, yeah, you know, a lot of what we do, we have to we we have to silo within a. driver. Like this is the stuff that. works for this guy, and I can't use that. to help this guy, right? That's one. reason That's one reason why Hintsa. >> share information. >> Yeah. And that's one reason why Hintsa. has been very successful as a company is. because they've been we're very good at.

walling the stuff off. Like we know. what's good for this guy, we know what's. good for this guy, and we we sort of. leave those separate because right. different frameworks, different. approaches might be needed. Well, it's. such an extreme example because any. little deviation that you wouldn't. normally feel in everyday life could be. disastrous Yeah. in a Formula 1 race. >> Yeah. Yeah. What about. different things to stimulate cognitive. function, like playing chess or doing Is.

Is there anything that those guys engage. in specifically to improve the way they. think? Again, it it depends a little from. driver to driver. Um. a lot of them. like play some kind of video games, which actually has has some interesting. evidence to support them in terms of in. terms of um improving cognitive. function. I think for them, though, uh a lot of that is. it's almost like relaxation. Like when.

you drive a Formula 1 car for a living, like. playing a video game is. >> [laughter]. >> is isn't necessarily as challenging, right? >> Um. and so a lot of it tends to be very car. car focused, right? They get tons of. time in the simulator like during the. season they get a lot of time in the. car. Um so there's nothing that like. consistently would work or that that. everybody does. I think a lot of where. the cognitive training side comes from. is during driver development, right? Um.

how can we get more. um sports specific or sports sport. supporting cognitive challenges in. younger drivers as they're developing. So we might use some cognitive training. tools um. and some other things to try and support. some of those development processes cuz. by the time they're at the the top um. especially if you want to maintain it, the the main thing that you need to do. is obviously maintain those driving. skills, which you'll get through like. the day-to-day aspects of the job. Plus.

then it's really continually paying. attention to sustained physical health, physical performance, um especially because of the like. arduous schedules and all that kind of. stuff. So what So often again they're. they're focusing on the other areas. because they know that will help them. stay at a high level for longer. So. they're focused on recovery from all the. unavoidable aspects that are going to. mitigate your performance. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So sleep, um. uh. some of them use different meditation or.

breath work or other devices. um just to kind of help maybe like. gamify it slightly or you make it. slightly more enjoyable experience. Um. it's easier to do, easier to switch off. if you're doing things related to sort. of like. uh vibration and that that that kind of. stuff. Um You mean like pressure plates? Like those standing on things? >> um No, there there's um Turbosonic? There's a There's a chair. that that's that some guys use. And I.

mean this is used in a ton of different. sports and like in other military groups. as well. They've got the Shift Wave. Have you heard of this? Yeah, I have. one. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So, some of the. guys some of the guys have a Shift Wave. Um it just kind of depends on what works. well for them in terms of like allowing. them to down-regulate, allowing them to. kind of sleep sleep better. Um and. again, we sort of often focus on the. more sort of physiological environmental. side rather than, you know, trying to. uh throw a bunch of supplements at it. Well, it seems like that's a great place. to study Formula 1 drivers because. you're dealing with these like fine.

lines, this this tiny differential. between success and failure. Yeah. [clears throat]. Yeah, and the. one of the interesting things is that. the sort of the the real performance. stuff is kind of siloed within the team. So, then. um right, cuz that's related to. performance in the car and that's. sensitive information. So, a lot of the time we're kind of. thinking about. and and this actually across most sports. the the best predictor of performance is.

sub- is subjective well-being. How does. the athlete feel? How And and so like. there are tons of studies even like. coming out now. Like you compare that to. blood tests and HRV and all this other. kind of stuff. How they feel, am I tired, am I achy, um. do I feel alert, uh you know, all that. kind of stuff. That seems to predict. performance really well. So, how can we. or or and and better some of those. better than some of those other things. The best is a combination as much as. possible. But so so we do a lot of uh work. aggregating data. But then really the.

rest of the time is. how can I make sure this guy feels good. every day, right? And feels confident. when he gets in the car. And so then we. have psychologists, they're a big part. of that. Plus like keeping an eye on. their body and all that, you know, all. those sort of things to sort of put them. in the best spot possible when they get. in the car. >> Do you coach them to avoid toxic. relationships? >> [laughter]. >> I'm not I'm not sure if anybody's ever. gotten into that. There are For. fighters, it is like one of the number. one predictors of poor success. in in a competition. I've I've seen it.

over and over again. Guys with horrible. relationships, you know, whoever's fault. it is, both fault, both parties, whatever it is. But those are the ones, like when they have like really bad. relationships, like there was this one. guy that I know. that was a really high performer, very. good fighter, but he had this crazy. girlfriend and she required so much so. much attention that it would drive her. nuts when he was getting ready for a. fight because he was spending all his. time concentrating on the fight and it. would peak literally the night before.

the fight. Like their relationship was. so toxic, she would always start fights. and all the coaches knew it. She would. start fights after he weighed in because. he was so locked in on the fight the. next day that he wasn't paying attention. to her. Yeah. >> So she would storm out of the hotel room. and go down to the bar by herself and he. would freak out and he would always wind. up performing poorly. I. I mean, I personally haven't seen any. evidence of that in that in that world. I will say that Fighters are kind of. crazy though. It's a it's a it's an.

interesting group to study because it's. a very bizarre activity to begin with. You know, it's the way I describe it is. high-level problem solving with dire. physical consequences. Yeah. And. Although you could say that Formula 1 is. is similar in that respect, right? Um. >> Very similar. The. There were there were certainly you. know, a lot of drivers come into into. the sport with that is often driven by. family relationships. So so I think that. that may may be an influence sometimes, right? >> Overbearing parents are another one.

Coaches are overbearing fighters as. well. >> this long history of right of like what. got them there. Uh-huh. Um so maybe so. maybe that affects some of them, I'm not. sure. Um what are the most challenging. athletes that you I I assume you've. dealt with a bunch of different athletes. from various sports. What are the most. challenging ones to deal with? The. the one I think the ones that I found. most challenging. uh are.

it's usually because they're pulled in. so many different directions. They're. it's it becomes. difficult for them to like really engage. in the in the things that we know are. going to is is going to help them. perform long-term. Um and so as. uh and like I have friends who work in. the NBA for instance where I think this. is un-preferred even more, right? You. have teenage millionaires who can. literally do whatever they want, right? But you have to like keep them on on.

task and we see that in a lot of. professional sports. And so it's that it's that kind of stuff. is what's. um distracting them, what are the other. things that they're doing that's. stopping them from being able to engage. in these processes. Um and so. you you can have like really good. conversations and put together really. good plans and like in the moment. they're really engaged and they're. interested in what they're what they. want to do well, right? This is their. job. And they love it. But.

when other things start to come into. play outside of that conversation they. don't engage with things, they don't do. it, they don't see the the results that. they want, they get demotivated. But. it's usually because like other things. in their life, right? Could be like the. toxic relationships, but it tends to be. other other distractors that they kind. of um pull pull them away from that that. sort of like core goal. Uh unfortunately. success is a big one, right? Because the. motivation to succeed in the first place. is you want financial gain, you want.

recognition, you want all these things. that you're chasing after. And then once. you get them, now what? >> Yeah. Yeah, yeah. And some. some some people like maintain like. really dedicated they maintain. dedication to the craft like this is the. thing that I love and I want to do it. every day and like the longer you do it. the more you have to take care of like. the little details. Like early on in. your career, you can train however you. want, eat however you want. If you have. a certain set of skills and. training up to that point, you get.

you'll you'll do pretty well. But you want to you want to sustain that. for a very long period of time. It. requires an increasing amount of. dedication to the. to the other areas of your life to make. sure that you can still do that. Um and. I think sometimes people just aren't. honest with themselves in terms of what. they really want to do or what they what. they're going to spend their time doing. So that that's the that's the most. frustrating um thing is when you sort of. you you hear one thing but you see. another thing because of like. the other areas of life that are that. are taking over.

So what do you do if you have an. athlete, like say an NBA athlete, and. you see all this talent, all this. potential, but then you notice that. they're getting pulled in all these. different directions. Maybe they're just. like spending money all the time and. partying and hanging out with girls and. how do you get them back on track? So. I I don't do a ton of work in NBA. When. when when I. um intersect with that, I'm generally. advising on like the data portion rather. than like the interacting with the with.

the human. So I don't have good tips, but luckily because I've I've never had. to to deal with that cuz I imagine it's. quite frustrating. >> So what athletes do you deal with? Like. what sports? >> So Formula 1 is the is the one where I. primarily I'm like face-to-face with. athletes. In in other professional. sports, I'm like an advisor to the team. that works with them on like a data. health nutrition kind of. >> Oh okay. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. And when you compare notes, what are the. differences between like dealing with. Formula 1 athletes versus dealing with. like NFL or NBA or baseball?

A lot of the stuff comes down to. uh. differences in. travel schedule and training and the. ability to. to capture data. For instance, so data. capture in Formula 1 is is really hard. cuz of the the types of travel and. right, you don't get to aggregate across. a team, whereas you part of a big team, there's several people you can kind of. work, but. you you work with an aggregate data. across kind of understand what what's. happening with with with individuals as.

well as like overall. But, um. I I think that. Formula 1 is unique because it's so it's. so individual um in terms of. each driver has their one specific team. And it's often very difficult to to. capture some of the data that we might. want to capture like getting blood tests. on guys who are. in a plane. every other day, right? Really. difficult. >> Um whereas other places where they have. a home base and this kind of stuff is. usual you might be be able to get at.

that better. Um so, I think that's maybe. one of the biggest differences is the. travel travel schedule and how easy or. not it is to like capture and aggregate. data. When when you're working with these. Formula 1 athletes, like how much are. you changing the methods that you use. like year to year? Um. it will depend on. whether some I mean, my job is to stay. on top of the latest research, right?

So, so what. what's come out recently that we think. will meaningfully move move the needle. In reality, um I think this is the case in in the. majority of professional sports that. I've I've inter- interacted with. The the main thing is getting. the boring basics done consistently. And. like again and again and again, like we. know that's uh foundational to sustain. performance. And yeah, like the.

the some of the the tools and technology. for recovery and some of the. supplements, um especially if you're. trying to address um nutrient. insufficiencies based on you know an. inadequate diet, which is also very. common. Right, those things do make a bit do. make a difference. But. the. the main struggle, at least from the the. guys that that I you know regularly see, is having an environment and framework. that allows them to keep doing that.

stuff. Like. stay on top of a specific training. program or stay consistent with a you. know a certain sleep routine that allows. them to to sleep well. Those are the things that make the. biggest difference. And so it's like. that's where we tend to focus. And then, you know, may maybe every year or so. we're we're constantly improving our. data capture and our data analysis. We're constantly. um. you know, trying to improve sort of like. the support processes because we know. that with the better better support we.

can make sure they're more likely to do. the stuff that's going to make a big. difference. And then maybe every sort of like year. or two there's a a new thing that comes. in and we're like, "Oh yeah, we're we're. fairly confident this is. low risk, high potential benefit. Um. It's not going to take a ton of their. time." Right? That's that's another. thing is. when I first. uh when I first walked into the paddock. in in It was here in Austin. It was the. first time I went to a Formula 1 to like. start working with these guys. I like. I showed up and I'm like, "I've got like. a I've got like a hundred things that.

these guys are going to love. It's going. to be really important. It's going to. revolutionize everything." And then you. speak to like a coach for the first time. and they're like, "We've got time for maybe one thing. And. you better be really confident that this. thing is going to make a difference, right? Or else you wasted our time.". >> So how do you decide? >> [laughter]. >> So um. a little bit. of it is of course there's going to be. some trial and error. And it does depend. on But the errors like consequences are. huge. >> Yeah. Like and and you just you just.

have to acknowledge that up front. And. the the the error is biggest when you're. telling some guy to do something before. he gets in the car, right? Because. that's that's that's going to. immediately have an effect. So, there. are ways to offset some of that, right? They have uh practice periods um. and so it's like right now there's a new. generation of cars for this season. Um nobody's driven them before. They're. getting more extended uh track time to. practice uh practice with them. So, like. that might be a time when when you could. try a new supplement or something uh. before you get in the car because it's a.

it's a low it's a low much lower risk. setting. Um you're not racing. There's not 19. other guys or now 21 other guys trying. to trying to get past you. Um. and then, right? So, that So, some of it. is that, right? Trial and error. You you. acknowledge that you you you just have. to be really confident that you know. what problem you're trying to solve and. that it's an important problem, right? So, I've I've worked with coaches and. their driver where like reaction time. was a very specific thing. Like off the. line, we. we think we need x amount improvement.

So, then it's a combination of practice, maybe tinkering with some supplements, maybe tinkering with some of that. arousal stuff that we talked about. earlier. Um. So, you need to make sure it's an. important problem. Then you need to. think about like what's the hierarchy of. things that have the highest likelihood. of benefit and the lowest risk. And then. sort of work your way through it. Um and. I realize that this is all kind of in. the abstract because it just like really. depends on the problem that's that's in. front of you. What about the psychology.

aspect of it? I mean, this is a very. controversial aspect of uh mixed martial. arts in particular because um there's. there's kind of two schools of thought. There's there's uh like I have a good. friend who's a coach that recently told. me he's not working with any fighters. anymore that need a mental coach. >> Mhm. And I said, "Why?" And he's like, "You just can't count on them." He goes, "They're just too fragile. They need a. mental coach." He goes, "I want a. [ __ ] who just knows that this is. what he's supposed to be doing and just. go out and do it. >> Yeah. And like, boy, but that kind of.

limits your athletes, right? Like. do you. do you think that there's benefit in. mental coaching or do you think like to. reach a championship level there's an. inherent mindset that you must have. going into that and you can improve upon. that, but if you do not have that. mindset. you're not going to be successful. This. is my friend's I do I don't want to call. him out cuz we know the athletes he. works with. >> But you know, he recently had a bad.

result with one of his athletes. He's. like, I'm done. No no more guys who need. mental coaches. I want killers. So I. think that you're going to need some. element of a mindset to get to that. level to begin with, right? Um but. we have psychologists on our team who. work work with the drivers regularly. Other drivers who aren't, you know, you. working with us. bring in sports psychologists very. regularly. >> you collaborate with these.

psychologists? Do you talk to them and. compare notes? >> Yeah. So we have. >> What are common issues? The. I mean again, it's just it it's so uh. dependent on the on the individual. Um but it. But it's also But it's also very common. across all athletes, right? So it's like. overcoming failure or fear of failure or. um you you maybe it's dealing with. difficult relationships which which you. know, for various reasons that they can.

experience. Um. and then it's how you know, their. inherent thought processes when that. happens. So so we know that. the most resilient athletes. are those that tend to be. self-compassionate. Right? So like. Interesting. >> Yeah. That's interesting. I would have. thought the opposite. >> Yeah. And so there's this idea, right? that like you want killers, you want. people hard on themselves. The guys who. are hard on themselves. But for. sustained and and so this is looking.

across like as broad as possible across. sport. Those who are most. um. most successful most often, of course. there's going to be there's going to be. the the killer who's just like hard on. themself and gets the job done. Of. course, right? But. these elements of self-compassion that. include. things like mindfulness, like. thinking about the world and. understanding it and about their place. in it and um. common humanity, which is like treating. themselves as they would treat other.

people. And acknowledging the right we all make. mistakes and stuff always happens, but I. can overcome this. I You know what? This. has happened to me before. Like I've. sucked, I've crashed, I've done. something wrong. And hey, I. I overcame it and. now I'm succeeding again. Those. mental skills are most common amongst. that the high-level high-level athletes. So I So I I give an example. This is not. So I don't know him, but like um. Roger Federer has a very famous quote, right? He gave it some um.

like graduation address or something. Where he says that. across his career. he only won 54% of his points on court. Right? So that means that 46 of 46% of. points he lost, right? So that means. that every time you make a mistake, every unforced error, he has to come. back and be like, "Hey dude, like you've. got this. I I know I can do this." And. like and that's the point that he's. making in the in this address. And it's those kinds of mental skills. that seem to be most important. So.

when. you've had a history of beating yourself. up and being hard on yourself and that's. kind of gotten you to that point. there will often be a stage where. there's so much accumulated pressure or. stress or failure. that just working harder and being. harder on yourself isn't going to get. you past it. But. athletes who are successful for a long. period of time tend to have those other. abilities to like think about the bigger. picture, understand what they've.

overcome previously, um treat themselves, you know, more like. they would treat others, and they seem. to be the ones who overcome failure and. then continue to suc- succeed. Um I'm. really into professional pool. I play. pool and I follow a lot of professional. pool. >> Mhm. and there's a trait amongst the. elite pool players that's pretty. consistent uh for the ones that are. successful and win tournaments is the. ability to let a bad shot go. >> Exactly. Because the guys who beat. themselves up over bad shots, you see. it, they slump in their chair, they.

start running their fingers through. their hair, they [ __ ]. they throw their head back, they take a. big deep breath, and then they're. carrying that with them when they go out. to make a shot again. And for a. high-level pool player. so um there's uh. performance scores. And a a really high. TPA performance score is like I think. the best in the world right now is. Joshua Filler, who's this guy from. Germany. He's. arguably, if not the best, one of the.

top two or three guys in the world. >> Mhm. His performance score is about uh I. think it's like. 850. out of a thousand. So that means if he. makes a thousand shots, he's going to. make 850 of those shots. >> Uh-huh. Which is very elite. >> Yeah. So you got to think like even the. best cuz they're playing on 4-in. pockets, but this guy never gets upset. When he misses, he just sits down, and. he's got a dead look on his face. The. Chinese Taipei players are the best at. it. I don't know how they coach them.

over there. So they're some of the best. in the world, the Chinese Taipei Taipei. players. So these guys from Taiwan, they. have no expression. When they miss a. shot, they just go and sit down, and. maybe they'll smile, but they never get. upset. Whereas a lot of the American. players, they get [ __ ] pissed off and. like. You see it some of the European players. do the same thing, and those guys, they. fall off a cliff. >> Yeah. Their performance is elite, they'll make a couple of bad shots, and. then the match goes downhill, and they. wind up getting steamrolled. >> Yeah. And and I think you can There.

There's other stuff going on. You can. think about it in terms of that, like. arousal curve we talked about earlier, right? As you get stressed and like. worked up about a missed shot, you're. pushing yourself further and further. away from the level of arousal that's. required for performance. >> Yeah. And And dwelling on failure. >> Right. And then you're thinking about. what happened previously rather than the. shot that that that [snorts] that comes. next. Well, that's one of the most. important things about a shot, cuz even. if your mechanics are good, if you think. you're going to miss, you're going to. miss. Yeah. >> It's weird. >> Yeah. It's a weird thing, because you.

know what to do, you know how to do it, but if you think, "Fuck, I can't miss this shot." You're going to. miss. Yeah. Like, nine times out of 10, it's very weird. So, it's a very. mentally uh. the game a giant percentage of it, once. the skills are acquired, cuz most of. them when they get to an elite level. have all the skills. Yeah. It's a mental. thing. It's ability to perform under. pressure. Yeah. >> Cuz it's fine motor skills, it's you. know There's. I mean, across every different aspect of.

cognitive performance, well-being. there's. you know, again and again you see that. psychology. drives physiology with and drives. performance. Like, you can you can. measure these things as you think them. as that they then change physiology, which then alters how you perform. So, So, I mean, that This is a very very. long answer to your or to your question. of. like, is imp- is like psychology and.

mental skills important? Absolutely, because I think that's going to be. foundational to whether you can even. achieve those high levels of. performance. Um and. everybody needs help occasionally. And. right, that's that's perfectly that's. perfectly normal. And they right, different people are going to need. different tools and different skill. sets. So, like different psychologists. are going to provide, you know, different things for them to do. So, like yes, that's always something that. we have on hand as needed as part of the. team because that's going to be really. important. Yeah, the mind controls.

so much of what you do in life even if. you have skills. Mhm. And that's. something that elite performers either. figure out or don't, right? They either. never achieve their true potential. because they keep tripping over. themselves or they go, "Okay, this is. not helping me. It's only hurting me. I. keep allowing myself to spiral into this. same sort of mental state and I have to. find a method." And so, like when you. talk with psychologists, what do they.

what tools and. what what what. sort of strategies do they give these. athletes to abandon negative thinking? There were a few different ways to. approach it. And again, like. don't want to pretend I'm a. psychologist, right? These These are the. We have other people with these skills. for a reason. Um. but. I think a lot of what um. becomes important. again is thinking about the causes.

of. um. maybe maybe initially the causes of. mistakes and then. um. the and the causes of stress and why. that may or may not be beneficial in the. way that you can you can leverage it. So, there's a lot of research on. understanding. that stress responses are there to. divert resources to something that. matters and something that either. requires your attention or adaptation to.

it, right? So, understanding that. actually stress in the moment, in that. kind of moment, is a good thing and you. want to you want to leverage it rather. than be scared of it. So, and we know. that people who are trained in this. mindset, so this is work by Alia Crum at. Stanford, stress the stress is enhancing. mindset. Um also like predicts how well. um. Navy SEALs do during training, like how. much they sort of like appreciate that. stress response is important. This is me.

you know, rising to the occasion. Um not only that that you still get. stressed, but you still can measure. stress hormones. That's that still. happens. But you release other things. that help to. um also like counteract that and drive. adaptation and it results in better. decision-making when when stressed. So, like reframing some of these responses. can can be important as well as then. thinking about like after a a mistake. happened, you know, thinking about other examples. of times when you did that and you.

overcame it or, you know, having having. like these different parts of. understanding what it is to be a human. even when you are performing at an elite. level. Maybe some of it is. building in. routines so that you feel confident in a. given situation, right? Like these are. the things that I do. and when I do these things I know I'm. going to perform well. That can be a double-edged sword for. some people because and I think this we. see this a lot of this in the in the.

world of sort of like health. optimization. We assume that. we need to do all these things in order. to perform well and so then if those. things don't happen, we think we won't. perform well, right? So, that's another. way for us to get get in our way our own. way. So, so you kind of have to balance. that depending on on the individual. And. then some of it can be. um right, in in the moment, right? So, you you one of those pool players. and you're getting increasingly. frustrated because you're not making. your shots. It's almost impossible to think your way.

out of that, right? Your brain is too. busy being dunked in adrenaline to like. make good decisions. So that that's where you might have. tools like um leveraging your. physiology, breath work, um closing your. eyes, uh visualization. Those things sort of work from the. bottom up. They kind of help your mind. get a grip and like get back in the. game. So. it's a whole bunch of different things. depending on um what you might need. Is. it I need to regulate myself in the. moment? Is it.

how do I set myself up for success. through a a series of um and and it. could be like what's my warm up? What's. my what am I thinking through? What am I. visualizing before I perform? Or is it. um tools to kind of deal with the. processes of of failure afterwards? And. I would also think that even just the. knowledge that these high-stress. situations where you do encounter. failure can produce a result inside the. mind that can be beneficial if.

harnessed. Yes. Yeah, exactly. And so. one one of the ways that this is this is. taught to other people, right? Not just. athletes, is. like think about all the people who've. performed under significant stress, right? This is what the human mind and. human body is capable of if only we. allow it to to do to do that. >> Right. Right, that's what's important, right? Is like. I I I I think inspiration is one of the. most powerful fuels that we can use and. inspiration from other people's examples.

is one of the best versions of that. >> Yeah. Cuz I think um there was a young. kid who recently. broke the world record of the mile. Did. you see that, dude? >> Yeah, I watched that. It was 6 16 it was. 3:40 something, 3:48 maybe. >> 3:48, which is nuts. Which is nuts. We didn't think that. people can get below 4 minutes before. This 16-year-old. kid Yeah. hits 348 and I immediately. thought, "Wow, through the inspiration.

of this kid being able to do this, who's. going to break 340 now?" You know? That. That I was I heard from somebody that. in the run-up to the race, he was like. he hadn't raced a bunch recently. He um. This kid's stud. This This was just. going to be like a just like going to be. a run out. He was just like going to you. know loosen his legs up, get back in the. in the in the in in into the race. And. so like in that situation, he's put no. pressure on himself, right? All the All. the brakes are off. Like whatever, he's. got nothing to lose. And so like in that. situation,

that you could like incredible. performances are possible. >> And it's crazy because that's only the. 11th fastest indoor mile. That's what it. says here. I thought it was the fastest. ever, but it's the fastest ever No, it's. under 18. Under 18 record, yeah. So. crazy. That's so fast to run a mile. Woo! I mean, I'm not sure I could go. that fast. full stop ever. Like for any period of. time. Yeah. Yeah, [laughter] for like. 20 ft. Yeah, exactly. I can't run that. fast. It's kind of amazing, but um I. mean, this is one of the things we talk. about all the time with mixed martial.

arts athletes in particular is that. today is such an amazing time for them. because there's so much access to video. So you can watch all of these. performances by all these elite athletes. and then it raises your personal. standards because you're mirroring what. these people are capable of doing and in. your head, you have a very high standard. because you've seen it. And that that. inspires people to become better. And so. the athletes that we're seeing today, I. I'd say all the time that.

martial arts has evolved more in the. last 30 years than it has in the last. 30,000 years. And it's it's true. And. it's it's true just based on my own. personal experience of seeing athletes. from 1997 when I first started working. with the UFC to 2026, it's a completely. different standard. They're so much. better. They're so much more elite. They. have so much more balance. They have so. much more balance in terms of their game. is balanced. Striking, grappling, wrestling, all of it together. It's it.

it it's amazing because they've they're. walking on the foundation that was set. by the athletes before them. So, it's the mind. Recognizing what's. possible. >> Abs- absolutely. Or. not thinking that something is. impossible, right? It's my my It's the. It's the It's the opposite, too. And. maybe that's more of it, right? It's the. same with Roger Bannister and the. 4-minute mile, right? As soon as he did. it, everybody Not everybody, but lots of. people started to do it. >> Well, and also the ignorance of youth, which is why young athletes are so damn. good sometimes. >> don't They don't worry about their own.

limitations. >> don't have mortgages. They don't have. wives. They don't have kids. They don't. have bills. So, but but this is this is. also the thing is, right? If we think. about um. these traits that we we'd maybe like to. carry over that that help us perform or. make you know, maintain performance for. long periods of time later in life. Like. some of that um. curiosity, not worrying about like these. burdens, continuously continuing to. engage in these things that challenge. ourselves that kids just like readily. do, right? The The brain is exploring. and trying to learn. I think we need.

more of that um as adults. Um. But when you think about the the. standard being set or thinking that. things aren't im- im- impossible, there's there's two parts to that. One, yes, that that that's a huge aspect of. achieving higher and higher levels of. athletic performance. But for for many of us like. us regular people, um. when you spend a lot of time seeing. other people performing so much better. than you, it has the It can have the. opposite effect, right? I think this is.

something that we see on on social. media. There's some really interesting. >> Right. um There's some really. interesting studies on. social rank, right? So, we are always. trying to see where we rank in the world. compared to others, right? It's the part. of us like being social beings. And so, if you spend all day looking at people. who are richer, more beautiful, more. jacked than you are, internally, you demote yourself. Right? You you you you give yourself a a. lower social rank. And that creates a social stress that.

triggers genuine stress responses, right? Increased sympathetic activation, activation of some like inflammatory. processes in the body. Very similar to. if you were socially socially isolated. So, for some people who. have the. you know, are on a trajectory to improve. their performance, you know, because. they're elite athletes and they've seen. these other guys doing it. They're like, "Oh, yeah. Yeah, I can do that." Right? That's really beneficial. But in like. the general world, the rest of us, when. we spend so much time seeing other. people do other things better than us, it can almost have the opposite effect.

Mhm. But not with everybody. >> No. No. No, it's it's it's very. >> we're we're talk That's the thing. between the difference between an. athlete and someone who's. intimidated by other people's. performances. Instead of being inspired. Yeah. So, but. but that's that's what I mean is that. when when you're one type of when you're. an athlete and you're seeing other guys. like you do this thing, right? That's. like, "Oh, yeah." That creates a bar you. want to try and hit. But. that same thing is very different out.

for the out for the rest of us based on. like seeing how we compare to others. Well, particularly in things you can't. control like your looks or your wealth. Yeah. But but like Wealth in some ways. can be achieved, but your mind doesn't. interpret it that right way, right? You. You don't You don't immediately. rationally think, "Well, I can never be. that." Right? "I'm never going to look. like Brad Pitt." Right? Right. You. You can't You can't apply that sort of. like rational thinking to it. Well, then. even worse for young girls because a lot. of them are getting surgery because they.

know that some girls have radically. improved their looks through surgery. And so, they think like this is the. solution to everything. And I just need. to get a nose job and a chin job and a. this and a that and. >> Which of course never No. And also it's. like the psychological aspect of being. controlled by paying attention to other. people's lives is very weird and it's. you know, Jonathan Haidt wrote a great. book about it called The Coddling of the. American Mind about the impact of social. media and particularly on young girls. It's really bad. >> Uh Coddling them So he he did write.

Coddling of the American Mind. That was. more about changes in like academia. academia and helicopter parenting and. safetyism. The Anxious Generation was. the one about social media. >> right. And that aspect of it of. comparing yourself to other girls is. particularly devastating. It's like. there's You see when the impact of. social media when social media gets. introduced into the world, immediately. you see more self-harm, suicidal. ideation, all these different things. increase. Whereas like So those same stressors, if.

you were in a position like an athlete. and you're a competitive athlete and you. see someone who's elite, you would be. inspired. But you feel. helpless to achieve these goals that, you know, you like you can't get any. taller, you can't get any better. looking, you can't like it's just this. is what you got. And then you see these. what and then you see people that are. using filters. So it's not even what. they really look like. Yeah, so that I I. think that's why there's this It's.

interesting that. very similar. exposures. depending on who you are and what you're. trying to achieve and what you have the. ability to achieve can have dramatically. different effects on mental and and. other well-being. Right. And but you. would imagine that for competitive. athletes, you're you've already. developed a certain amount of resilience. already. You already have a competitive. spirit and you are working towards a. thing that's a high level of achievement.

and something you're already doing. So, seeing a Michael Jordan, seeing a LeBron. James, seeing like if you're a. basketball player, you would be. inspired. And instead of being like, "Oh, I'll. never be as good as that guy." you'd be. like, "Fuck, I want to be as good as. that guy. What do I have to do?" Well, Kobe Bryant worked out every day and he. did this and he did that, so I'm going. to do that. So, but that's the key. difference, right? Is that. um. something else we didn't talk about this. in terms of like the the approaches of. of the most successful athletes is that.

they don't just say, "I want to be like. LeBron or Kobe." They say, "What did he. do? What can I do?" So, they focus on. the process, right? You have to love and. focus on the process because you. you can't guarantee a certain outcome, right? So, like in and I talk about this. I talk about this in the book and I give. the example of the 2012 Olympics, right? The the guys who came second, third, and. fourth ran personal best times.

Like several other national records were. set during the during like the whole. 100-meter sprint competition, all the. different rounds. But like. Usain Bolt ran, right? And so like you. [laughter] can. like no you you can be the best you've. ever been and be amazing. Like you can. run fast enough to have won a gold medal. any other year, but like sometimes. you're out of luck cuz Usain Bolt shows. up. So, like you've got to focus on the. process because you can't guarantee the. outcome. But by focusing on the process,

right? You're going to get you're going. to get much closer. Yeah, that's interesting because if you. are a person trying to be the best in. the world and you happen to be in the. same weight class as Mike Tyson. >> [sighs]. >> it's going to be tough. What are you. going to do? Yeah, but I mean that's always been the. case. That's the thing in championship. level fighting you find that when. someone is a real outlier that what. happens is all the other people in that. weight class. tend to achieve a very high level even. if they never wind up being as good as.

Anderson Silva or whoever it is. They. they want it wind up winds up being a. very competitive. contender class. >> Yeah. underneath it and much more. competitive than divisions that are not. being dominated by elite fighters. >> Yeah. Yeah. You this is a very large book, right? So I know [laughter] it can't. just be the stuff that we've already. covered. What other things do you think. are in here that are important when. you're talking about future proofing. your mind? Um.

I will say you're looking at a dummy. copy so all the pages are blank. Yeah, you just tricked me. Look at this folks. [laughter]. I was saying this is a really large. book. This is a [ __ ] empty book. So. the. >> That's crazy. >> the diff I read this I'm like maybe it's. a trick. The I Yeah, you just not paying. attention enough. The um. the book is as thick as the real one. will be. >> you. So um and that that's on purpose. >> I've never been given a dummy copy of a. book before. So does it even have writing? No. writing. Good, I'm going to use this as. my new joke book. >> [laughter]. >> New notes. It's all blank.

>> Well um once once the once the full. thing is printed we'll send you a real. one. Okay. Um You did trick me though. Thank god I didn't try to read from it. So the like the first the first part of. the book is about um some of the history. of of neuroscience and why we think. about the brain the way we do and some. of the limitations that's created like. why we think about um Alzheimer's. disease as just being like the. accumulation of amyloid and tau proteins. in the brain which people might have. heard of, right? That's what it's been. boiled down to when there's actually a.

much bigger picture and many other. things that that are important. Wasn't the. Was it Alzheimer's where the amyloid. plaque. where that idea was sort of. proven to be a little bit [ __ ] So. there have been a. So we. uh. not really but kind of. So there are. several seminal papers in. >> hoaxed, right? The the manipulated in. some way, right? They. And this is this unfortunately is quite. common where you you change the figures, you manipulate these blots to make them.

show different things and you kind of. move them around and copy and paste and. it kind of shows what you want to show. And so like for some of the like seminal. papers in Alzheimer's that that turned. out to be the case. But it it it doesn't like discount the. fact that it's still still a part of it. But people have increasingly looked away. from just the accumulation of certain. proteins in the brain for for two. reasons. One is that. we had as as a field, they had to create. new ideas like resilience and there's.

this thing called cognitive resilience. which is how much cognitive function do. you maintain in the face of these. proteins building up in the brain. And that's because the the amount of. amyloid you have in your brain doesn't. really predict cognitive function and. and cognitive decline that well. So some. of that is related to other things. So. we know that like exercise is a is is an. important part of that. And and then we. know that there is other things that. that are important. as well. So inflammation,

other cells in the brain that become. critical. So like the white matter is a. really critical structure in the brain. It's what allows us to have really fast. processing speed, a decision making, executive function, the function of the prefrontal cortex. All of that is kind of dependent on. white matter structure. and that seems to be really related to. like vascular vascular health. Resistance training is really important. to support that. So like all these other. things become important as well. So like that's kind of the it's just.

showing like the first part of the book. is saying, "Hey, we kind of focused a. lot here, but actually that's it's not. that's not important, but like there's a. whole bunch of other stuff that's. important, too." And a lot of it is. related to things that we have control. over. So then then you know, I we talk I. talk about all the different types of. exercise, how different types of. exercise affects different parts of the. brain in different ways, um nutrition, um. talk a lot about cognitive stimulus, uh. social connection, um sleep, um like I said, stress. management and stress mitigation and how.

you can kind of manage your performance. in the moment. Um and then all of that. comes together in terms of into like a. model um that I call the 3S model of how. these different like things kind of. interact um and and affect you on a. day-to-day basis. So, the the first S being stimulus, right? We've talked about all all the reasons. why that's that's important. Um the. second S being supply, which is if you. stimulate a part of the brain or a. network in the brain with a new skill,

that area of the brain, uh the neurons. and the astrocytes there, they ask for. more blood flow. So, the blood vessels. have to widen, they dilate to bring in. more oxygen, bring in more glucose or or. whatever metabolic substrate you're. using, ketones, lactate, etc. Um and so you need really good. cardiovascular health. That's critical. So, that's that's a big part of what we. talk about. Um you also need good. metabolic health. So, uh high blood. pressure and high blood sugar are two of. the biggest risk factors for later. dementia because they affect this supply. component, either the blood flow getting.

there or being able to regulate. your energy. Um and then there's a bunch of nutrients. that are important in in that bucket as. well. So, omega-3s, vitamin D, iron, magnesium, um. because they have very uh B vitamins, they have very specific functions in the. brain that we know that if you're. deficient, you have an increased risk of. cognitive decline and dementia. And then you've stimulated a part of the. brain, you've kind of given it all the. substrate it needs to do its job. Like we've talked about, adaptation. occurs and function in gets enhanced.

when we sleep or when we recover. So, like that's support is the third bucket. So, sleep is a part of that. Um other. support you might get like hormonal. status is is important. Trophic factors, right? Hormones that get released or. proteins that get released that support. neuroplasticity in the brain, things. like brain derived neurotrophic factor. And then you want to avoid things that. kind of inhibit that process. So, chronic stress can do that. It creates. like an overtraining kind of picture in. the brain.

Smoking, excessive alcohol, air pollution, those kinds of things. can can have a negative effect. So, like. that's how they that's how they all. interact. Interact. And the fact that. they interact means that depending on. what feels most impactful to you. Like. what's the thing that you think you can. move the needle on? By focusing on one area, the whole. network starts to shift. And we see that. in in multiple different studies. So, if you focus on sleep. and you sleep a bit better. then the next then we see that like.

inflammation decreases and blood. pressure improves and blood sugar. improves. And the next day you feel more. sociable. So, you're more likely to. interact with other people in a friendly. way. And you're more likely to engage in. cognitively stimulating tasks because. when we're tired we kind of shy away. from those things. And it's the same if. you So, there are studies in older. adults where you give them a brain. training program and they sleep better. Because when you stimulate a tissue, you. then drive greater need for recovery. afterwards. It's the same if you. exercise more, you sleep better.

So, it's not like this long list of things. that everybody has to do. And because. when you give somebody a list of 37. things, they'll do zero things, right? We know that. Yeah. So, if you if you. just know that they all kind of. communicate and interact. anywhere you come in, you can start to. kind of shift things in your favor. Now, when you're compiling a book like. this, I would imagine there's a lot of. editing. And so, how [clears throat] do. you decide like what to leave in? I. mean, this looks like it's I mean, obviously these are all blank pages so. they're not numbered, but it looks like. this is at least a 300-page book.

>> The final. final book is about 450 pages. 165,000. words. Wow. And the the reference list. like so, um, unlike most health books, every time I. make like a a statement or I mention a. study, there's a little number, and that that gives you the paper or. papers that I'm talking about that. supports that, right? Um, it's 2,000. papers long, um, and so like that all. has to go online because they couldn't. Of course.

>> afford to print it in the book. Um, But. that's probably better anyway. >> Yeah, yeah. Like cuz like there's like. seven people who will do who will do. that, right? >> That's what I was going to say. >> go. and then and then they'll go and look. >> Psychos. Yeah, yeah. So so it's. important to me like anyway People who. want to Yeah, people who want to do that. can do that. Um, but. in. I I'm not quite sure how it ended up. being this way, but I I actually had to cut very little. Like there were things where I kind of. went down a little bit of a rabbit hole.

and my editor was like, "Meh, I'm not. sure we really need this." Um, but. I I basically wrote until I got to the. word limit and then and then I stopped, and I focused on the things that I knew. that were important and were going to. stay important even in the age of AI and. as technology improves and changes. Um, so there wasn't a ton that that. ended up getting cut out. But when you're putting it together, like how do you decide the like the. what's prominent, what's the most. important thing to focus on, where to.

put things? Um, so. when. when I started. when I started writing, I actually so so. I'm I'm going to disagree with my former. self. Like the first I I I. I wrote the I wrote the first part of. the book like three times. And like the first time I wrote it, it. was like 40,000 words all focused on. psychology and like. super like esoteric and academic, and I.

was like, "Nobody's going to read this.". So, like it had to be scratched a couple. of times. So, then um. the the core middle part of the book is. all those different areas that we know. are important, like the big rocks, and practical frameworks for how to. address those. And then. then there's just like a then there's an. introduction to like like why should you. care about this? Like. um for like in individuals over 40, dementia is the the most important.

health concern, right? Um more than 10%. say they've experienced changes in. cognitive function. Um we know that the rates of dementia. are going to double or triple in the. next two or three decades. Like so, why. do people care about this? And like some. some history there. Um And then the. middle part is. which I always knew I was going to. write. These are the most important. things and they're always going to. remain the most important things. And. then the last chapter is sort of like. just kind of bring bringing it together. Um.

Does that answer your question? It does. It does. Well, I'm glad you wrote it. because I think it's a very important. thing and I think there's a lot of. people out there that don't understand. the risks of being sedentary and that. these these are things that you can. change. Yeah. And that you can improve. the quality of your life by making those. changes. And. it might make you uncomfortable to begin. something like that, but there's some. real value in that uncomfortable feeling. of trying something new. >> Absolutely. And then it really does. change the way your brain functions and.

it'll improve the quality of your life. and. in this case, if possible, hold off. dementia and and just hold off cognitive. decline without calling it dementia. So. many people [clears throat] experience. cognitive decline because of atrophy. Yeah. Yeah, so it's um. that's kind of like the the the worst. possible end state we want to avoid, but. you want to maintain your current level. of cognitive function for for as long as. possible and possibly improve it.

>> And possibly improve it. And there is. evidence you can improve it even later. in life. And so a big part of this is. that. when you. right at the you know earlier we talked. about you know this graph of cognitive. function, right? It increases to your. sort of 20s or 30s and then it declines. When we're doing studies that show that. kind of thing. what we're doing is we're looking at a. whole bunch of people maybe tens or. hundreds of thousands of people and. we're saying like. you plot them all on a graph. And yeah, as as you get as you sort of. increase in age, there are some people. who are going to lose function you kind.

of like draw the average down. But we've known essentially since for. the last 50 years. that. when you look at the same person over. several decades, it's actually very. normal for us to maintain function. So. like. the Seattle Longitudinal Study. was run by a guy called Warner Shaie in. Seattle and it was one of the first. studies where they measured cognitive. function in the same people. every 7 years for several decades. And. like every 7 years they measured the.

same people and brought in new people. And so they ended up with people who. were like in their 20s up to over a 100. years old. And they found that the average effect, by that I mean that more than 50% of. people maintain the same level of. cognitive function into their 50s, 60s, 70s and 80s. And those data were used to. actually raise the retirement age in the. US in in the 1980s because they showed. that it actually wasn't normal for. people to decline. But the problem is now we've. embodied this idea that as you get older.

you will decline. And as a result you stop engaging in all. the things that we've talked about. So. you're like oh I'm too old to lift that. I'm too old to learn a new skill. You. know, I don't have time to do that. And. as a result, right? It's a. self-fulfilling prophecy. You stop. engaging in those processes and decline. happens as a result. But if we know that. it's possible to maintain function and. we continue to engage in those. processes, the norm should be that function is. maintained. Uh last question, did you do an audio. version of this? Yeah, I'm recording it.

at the moment, yeah. >> All right. When will that be available? >> Be uh out on the same day, uh March. 24th. March 24th, Stimulated Mind, Dr. Tommy Wood. Go get it, folks. I promise it won't be. like this one. >> [laughter]. >> Thank you, Tommy. I I really enjoyed. this. Thanks so much, Tommy. >> much. I think it's really important. information, too, and I I think it's. something that everyone should apply. [music]. Thank you. >> Thank you. Bye, everybody. >> [music].