Joe Rogan Experience #2448 - Andrew Doyle

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. All day. >> Yes. Andrew. >> Hello. >> Good to see you, brother. >> Good to see you, too. >> Um, it has been, you said, 6 years. almost to the day. The last time. So, >> lots changed. >> Right before everything went crazy. >> That's it. >> Right before. >> Yeah. The whole world sort of shift. >> cuz everything went kooky around March, right? >> Yeah. Yeah. So, it was February 2020 and.

then then we have COVID and then we. have, you know, we've had Trump in. between of that. We had BLM. That summer. of 2020, everything just exploded and. went mad and um. >> yeah, and then everything shifted. >> And then you wrote a book. It's called. The End of Woke. How the Culture War. went too far and what to expect from the. counterrevolution. >> Isn't that how it always goes though? It. goes like we go too far and then we. overcorrect and we become Nazis or. [laughter]. >> That's it. Exactly. Well, you know, >> or it's the opposite. We go socialist.

You know, >> it's a big pendulum. I get that. It sort. of goes back and forth. I mean, I was. trying to in that book, I'm trying to. make the point that what woke was was. like a kind of the latest manifestation. of a kind of innate authoritarian. impulse. I think human beings are by. default quite uh inclined towards just. shutting people up if they don't like. them. >> Yeah. >> Just imposing their authority. And so, woke I mean a lot of people are annoyed. that I've called it the work. I'm not. saying it's all over. Let's just go. home, forget about it. It's still going. on. But the point about it is is that in.

its current manifestation, things are. changing now so rapidly. We are moving. into some sort of new phase and that. authoritarianism which we've associated. with the left might come up from the. right. It could come up from anywhere. It's what you say about the pendulum. So. you just have to be kind of vigilant. about it. I don't think we were. vigilant. I think that's why woke. happened. >> We weren't vigilant against this. prospect that you know authoritarianism. could emerge in what we thought was a. free society. Well, authoritarianism. authoritarianism, it snuck in through uh. a sheep costume.

>> Yeah. You know, >> a wolf in a sheep's costume. >> Yeah. It was a it was a costume of. being more inclusive, being more. open-minded, being a better society, being kinder, you know? It. [clears throat] it it led to, you know, child trans surgeries, led to chaos. It. led to like a lot of like really [ __ ]. freaky things that you would have never. expected. people people saying that the. First Amendment is not important. What's. more important is protecting people. >> Well, that was the key, wasn't it? The. point was that [clears throat] the way. it worked was that it was gulling people.

through language that sounded really. sweet and kittenish and fluffy. You. know, things like equity. Well, that. sounds a lot like equality, doesn't it? But it doesn't mean equality. It means. treating people unequally to ensure uh. equal outcomes according to group. identity. That's a very different thing. You say you're talking about let's make. everything inclusive, but what you. really mean is let's exclude anyone who. disagrees with what we've got to say. So. you're using language to mean the exact. opposite. They say gender affirming. care. Do they mean that or do they mean.

affirming what is effectively a. pseudoscientific belief among vulnerable. people? So it's it's all about misusing. language because most people I think or. I like to think are pretty decent. Yeah. >> Like most people want to be kind and. want to be fair. And when you hear these. activists saying be kind, be. compassionate, or else, right? You know, [laughter] you kind of think, okay, >> well, maybe their intentions are good, but also they're pretty scary. I mean, there's there's a there's a weird there. was a weird thing with the woke thing, which was that on the one hand, it. proclaimed to be this sort of great,

virtuous, kind, uh, progressive right. side of history. How often did you hear. that phrase? >> Right. >> And at the same time, they're like. dangerous dogs. Like you're you're like, I better not piss them off. I better not. say the wrong thing in the workplace cuz. they'll they'll destroy you. >> Well, I always find that the most. preposterous the idea is and the the. least capable it is to stand up to. scrutiny, the more violent the. enforcement of that idea will be because. you cannot combat that. You can't defend.

that idea with logic. So, you have to. defend it with fear and force and and. just. >> just shouting people down. And that's. what we saw. And that's it's a natural. impulse of human beings. Absolutely. Like when you're arguing with a kid, you. know, when you're a kid and you're. arguing with the kid and you say. something, you don't even know you you. shut the [ __ ] up. Like they just start. scaring you. So why is it though that. some countries and some societies seem. to protect themselves better than others. >> against that against that impulse and I. feel at the moment that the UK is kind. of failing where America is to a degree.

succeed not in obviously in all ways but. when it comes to the idea of freedom and. free speech like I think UK is pretty. far has pretty fallen to the kind of the. the woke insistence that you need to. control people's language so that you. can create this perfect society which. can never come anyway it's just. >> well I think it's been co-opted. I think whatever organic version of that. emerges naturally from society where. people where there's an overcorrection. I think in the UK because you guys don't.

have free speech laws. >> cuz it's just different over there. Yeah. >> You can get away with a lot of crazy. [ __ ] like the first of all like we. should explain what we're talking about. More than 12,000 people have been. arrested in the UK in the past year for. social media posts. And if you read some. of those social media posts, they're not. even remotely terrifying. It's not like, "I'm going to grab a knife and go cut. the head off of every immigrant I see.". Like, "Hey buddy, maybe we should lock. this guy up and evaluate him. He sounds.

like a crazy person." Like, no. The. immigrants are coming into this [ __ ]. country and creating all this crime. Knock on the door. You're going to jail. >> I worry that Americans think we're mad. sometimes. I think we do. Yeah. Do you. >> We do now. Yeah. We think you've lost. it. Yeah. We think, well, we also think. something happened where your leaders. are intentionally trying to tank your. country. It seems like they're trying to. bring in as many migrants as possible. Um, cater to them, not to the British.

people and do it openly so that everyone. knows what they're doing and then create. chaos on the streets because of it. >> Yeah. I mean, people have a phrase that. anarot tyranny, you know, where you. where you punish people who aren't. breaking the law, but but you protect. those who are. And I I think with the I. mean I don't know to the extent that. Americans know the I mean the stat you. quoted that came from the Times. newspaper in London which had a freedom. information request to the police found. out that it's 12,000 a year on average. So that's like 30 a day not just being. investigated or looked into but being.

arrested. >> But over the last few years only if you. go back it's only like a,000 or 500. >> It was 3,000 uh last time we spoke back. in 2020. 3,000 years back then. >> Yeah. Oh my god. >> So, we already had that problem. I mean, we. >> I didn't know it was that many. That's. crazy. Even back then, >> it was already really high. I mean, we. had stuff like the old stories of like. um there was that guy in 2010 who made a. joke online about he was at Doncaster. airport in the UK. He said, "Oh, if this. queue doesn't hurry up, I'm going to. blow up the airport." Just a stupid.

funny tweet. He went all the way to. court. That was a full trial. Or so. these these laws and I think I think. what happens with this stuff is people. don't realize how long this has been. embedded in the UK. We have hate speech. laws that are encoded in a number of. different legislations. We have a thing. called the Public Order Act. We have a. thing called Malicious Communications. Act. That's from 1988. We have. Communications Act from 2003. And all of these things criminalize. I. tell you, I I kid you not, the language. in the statute books is if it's grossly.

offensive. That's the phrase. If you. post something that is grossly. offensive, you can go to court. You can. be prosecuted. But, you know, I find. >> so subjective. >> Well, that's it. What does that even. mean? I find laws against free speech to. be grossly offensive. So should the the. British state be arrested? I don't know. And there's one I think it's in the um. malicious communication communications. act where it talks about needless. anxiety causing needless anxiety can get. you arrested. And you think you think. that's not a thing? I can give you a.

specific example. >> You smoke cigars? Uh, I have once my. friend Winston Marshall, who think I. worry that if I try it, I'll cough and. I'll look really wimpish and and. pathetic and it'll won't be good for. your arguments. >> It will backfire. It will I tell you, it'll undermine everything. It'd be like. I'm sitting here with a paper hat on at. Christmas, undermining all of my key. points, right? >> Um, I I see I like I like the flavor and. I like being around smokers cuz my. grandmother used to chain smoke around. me. So, it's kind of. >> Oh, boy. >> Well, she's Northern Irish, you know. It's the way they do. She used to give.

me whiskey when I was three to calm me. down, you know. So, it's that sort of. family. >> Um, >> that's an old thing they used to do with. kids. They just put it in their babies. They put it in their mouth. >> Like they would dip their finger in. whiskey and rub it on the inside of a. kid's mouth. >> If you're struggling with a child, get. it drunk. >> That's how you It's old Northern Irish. wisdom. >> I don't think you should scoff at it. It's a good It's a good thing, but I'll. be more than happy to. >> It's grossly offensive. >> It's [laughter] grossly offensive. The example I was going to give uh was. this um guy called Darren Brady. And.

this sounds made up. And whenever I tell. people this, it sounds made up. He um. posted a meme. I don't know if you saw. this meme where it was the four Progress. Pride flags, you know, that's got the. crazy triangles and stuff in it now. >> Uhhuh. And you put them all together and. they become a swastika. >> Exactly. That right. And that was going. everywhere. And he posted it and there's. a video of him being arrested, put in. handcuffs. He's an army veteran, by the. way. Right. Put in handcuffs [snorts] by. the police. And the policeman says in. the video, "You caused someone anxiety.". So the actual language from the law is. being used for this rearrangement of the.

And you know what? That's quite a good. satirical point. >> Yeah. >> That he was making. It wasn't even his. meme. He was just retweeting a meme. But. even if it was some horrible offensive. thing, who cares? >> How was that offensive? >> Well, I guess I mean, well, you could. find that's the problem. You could find. anything offensive. M. >> you could find anything grossly. offensive if you're extremely sensitive. >> You could. And but wasn't there a point. to that? I mean, he was kind of saying. that the LGBTQIA. plus movement [snorts] has become quite. authoritarian.

>> Yeah. >> He's not saying they're actual Nazis. And he's saying, "Oh, isn't it quite. funny that when you put them together, it looks like a it looks like a swast. sticker." The idea that you get. handcuffed for that, >> especially for a retweet, that's crazy. >> Yeah, that's crazy. >> It's retweets, it's tweets, it's posts. Uh we've had memes are the big ones. So. there was a guy called Lee Joseph Dunn. who went to prison for eight weeks. That. was last year I think for three memes. that he posted. >> Eight weeks. >> Eight weeks in prison. One, right? So. again, the I'll tell you what the most. offensive of the three memes was and you.

can tell me whether you think it was. worth prison time. >> He put a picture of some immigrants uh. with knives and underneath it said. coming to a town near you. And that was. it. So I don't know if you think that's. worth prison time. That's the most. offensive one. >> of the three. That's the most. >> What's the least offensive one? >> I can't remember what the other two were. >> because I remember I looked at them. I. thought that's not even worth that's not. even worth thinking about. But this one. was the one that really cuz because they. say in England you're stirring up hatred. against minorities through the the the.

spreading of the meme, >> right? >> You know, but that's clearly not. sufficient. You know, I and I think in. the US you have you have far more. protections. I I wonder whether it's to. do with the fact that in [snorts] the US. you have the first amendment like so you. have something codified. Yeah. >> That says you can say what you want. >> We've never had that. >> It's very important and it didn't seem. important 20 years ago or 30 years ago. >> because no one ever looked at England as. being that kind of a country that would. just put people Well, obviously this was. all preocial media and England has.

always been a fairly polite society. Yes. And and but the thing is like now. pub talk has become illegal, right? Yeah. Like if you say something. offensive in a pub, you're subject to be. arrested and they're asking people to. turn people in. >> There's a thing called the banter ban, which the Labor [laughter] the Labor. government was trying to put in. Here's. the logic of the banter ban. Um I I I've. [clears throat] forgotten about this, but now you mentioned it. They wanted to. introduce this law so that for instance, if you're working in a bar or a pub and.

you overhear someone who says something. against your protected characteristic, say you're a gay bar man and someone. says, "Oh, I don't like the gays." or. something and you overhear it, your. employer has a a duty to protect you. from that kind of hate speech, that kind. of harm, so therefore there's going to. be a blanket ban on speech in on certain. kinds of speech within the the pub, right? I would say the guy who's. eavesdropping, he's the problem, right? you shouldn't be listening in on other. people's conversations. That so that's. that's a real thing. >> Yes. >> And I guess it all comes down to this. view which I think is completely wrong.

that words and violence are the same. thing. Uh that words can create a more. violent society that there's a direct. causal link between the stuff that. people say and the stuff that people say. online to how people behave in the real. world. And I think you guys have got it. right because you've got the Brandenburg. test. Do you know about the the the the. test for incitement to violence in the. US? >> No. What is that? It's it's basically a. test that was established I think back. in the 60s. Uh it was a KKK leader. called Clarence Brandenburgg who was. prosecuted for incitement to violence.

And the test was that was established. since that precedent was that any words. uh that can be convicted for incitement. to violence they have to be intended to. cause violence likely to cause violence. and the violence must be imminent and if. you satisfy those that that threshold. you can be prosecuted in the US for. incitement to violence. So it' be like. kind of imagine a demagogue surrounded. by all his fans whipping [snorts] up a. frenzy and then pointing to a guy on the. front row and saying kill him now. That. would qualify for the Brandenburgg test. >> But in the UK, because we don't have.

that test, all we've got is whether. people found it offensive. That's the. that's the difference of the threshold. So it's a it's a massive difference. between what the US has and what the UK. has. >> Massive. [snorts]. >> It's insane. I mean to give the most. obvious recent example cuz I don't know. if people know about this. There's a. woman called Lucy Connelly in the UK. Uh. I don't know if this was reported over. here at all. Do you remember we had all. these riots last year during the summer. when uh against hotels which were. housing asylum seekers and people were. setting fire to them. There were. genuinely racist stuff going on right.

during those riots. And this was off the. back of a guy who'd murdered a bunch of. little girls in a dance class. And there. were rumors going around that this was. an asylum seeker, right? And this one. woman, a mother who'd lost her daughter, very sensitive about the idea of um Lucy. Connelly, very sensitive about the idea. of loss of kids. She tweeted in an in a. fit of anger. Go and burn down all the. hotels for all I care. Uh if that makes. me racist, so be it. And take the. government with you. Something like. that. And she deleted it within a couple.

of hours. She went out, walked a dog, she deleted it. She thought, I really. that's not me. That's not who I am. Deleted it. police [snorts] came, went. to court, sentenced to 31 months in. prison for that deleted, swiftly deleted. tweet, and she served over a year. >> Oh my god. >> Now, I'm not saying the tweet was nice, right? The tweet was a horrible tweet, and she says it was a horrible tweet, that's why she deleted it. But because. we don't have that Brandenburg test, we. don't have a test for incitement to. violence because the key is that tweet, there was no way it could have, she was.

a nobody, you know, she wasn't someone. with influence. She didn't have many. followers. um she no one was going to. read that and go and act upon it and if. they did that would be on them right. because yeah. >> this is a myth this myth that people act. on cue to what they read online. >> well isn't real. >> it influences people for sure but it. what point are you required to have. sovereignty over your own mind and your. own actions. >> yeah well I think what it does is it.

raises the temperature particularly when. political leaders do it. >> right. went political. But my point is like. it's not going to incite you to. violence. It's not going to incite me to. violence. So who are we talking about? This is part of the thing is like. they're protecting the dumbest members. of society. This is like the thing about. >> banning, you know, crazy talk online. If. you're talking about witches or, you. know, whatever [snorts] it is, flat. earth, like we have to stop. misinformation from from who? It's not.

working on you, right? You don't believe. it. So, who are we protecting? We're. protecting the dumbest people. >> Also, aren't you kind of letting them. off? Like, if someone goes and commits. an act of violence and said, "Oh, I did. it because someone told me to do it.". Aren't you kind of letting them off the. hook? >> Right. Exactly. >> And sort of displacing the blame. [clears throat] You know, it's like that. guy who shot uh John Lennon who said. catcher in the Ry made him do it. Reading the book Cat. Are we now blaming. JD Salinger, right, >> for the murder of John Lennon? It was. John Lennon, wasn't it? I think he did. Yeah. So do do you I think the safest.

approach is to say people are. responsible for their own actions. I. think the best that you could say is. when political leaders and people with. clout. say things like that sort of and say you. know it's fine to go out and commit. violence. I think what they do is they. create a kind of impre of approval. They. create this kind of sense that if you do. it the people in charge will have your. back. If you do it it's okay. Well, this. was the argument with Trump for January. 6th, and that's why the BBC edited his. speech to make it look as if that's what. he was saying. Do.

>> you see you saw that clip, right? >> Oh my god, it's [ __ ] crazy. >> I I mean, I've been saying for a long. time, the BBC has a real like Well, I. will say in the BBC's defense is they've. always been pretty good at being party. politically neutral. Like, they will uh. interrogate someone in the the right and. someone in the left in a pretty neutral. way. They don't I think they do a pretty. good I know people will be annoyed at me. for saying that but I think they do. But. I think in terms of the ideology, the. woke ideology, they got captured. They. have a thing at the BBC called the LGBT. desk or they had it up until recently. which could veto any news story which.

meant that any story that was slightly. critical of trans activism or or. anything like that just didn't get. reported. So I'm not surprised that the. BBC. >> they gave them veto power. >> They gave them veto power. Yeah. >> That's crazy. This all came out in a. report, quite a recent report just a few. months ago, which led to the resignation. of Tim David, the director general, and. he resigned ostensibly because of that. Trump clip, which by the way, that. wasn't the first time they did it. There. there was another clip about a year a. year before in a different program that. did the same thing, took the clip,

re-edited it, and made it look like he. had said something he absolutely had not. said. So, I think the the BBC quite. obviously has an ideological bias if not. a party political bias, >> but that's more than a bias. >> Well, it's misleading, right? It's. >> it's completely deceptive. You're you're. editing something and change I mean you. took out a giant chunk of his speech. >> Yeah. >> This episode is brought to you by. 1800flowers.com. Valentine's Day is coming up. It always.

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so he said. >> something crazy like that. >> Yeah. He said it made him look like he. was saying go and commit the. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And instead he he was in tongue and. cheek talking about the very fine center. that they're doing a great job senators. and congress people and said all this. other stuff. >> It's said you have to fight like hell to. keep your country. >> I mean no offense but you can find daff. stuff that Trump says pretty easily, right? You don't you [laughter] don't. you don't need to edit that stuff down. >> Well, it's cuz they had an opportunity.

to like like what we were saying before. earlier. We were talking before the. show, you can put out a narrative and it. doesn't have to be true and then that's. the one that sticks. So, that's the one. that spreads wide and then when. >> all these years later they have to have. this, you know, trial and everybody. finds out it's not true, but the damage. is done. I mean, that's what they did. with Trump during the whole uh steel. dossier. Yeah. you know, the the hookers. and peeing on people and you know, all. that crazy [ __ ] Remember that? >> I remember the idea that he'd hired.

hookers to urinate on the bed that was. once occupied by the Obamas. >> Something along those lines. >> The reason I didn't believe that is I. don't think Trump is that avanguard. I. don't think he's that creative like. that. Like if he'd have come up with. that, I'd have been actually applauding. that. That's kind of amazing. But. obviously he didn't do that. >> That's not even something to appla That. just sounds like a work of art. >> Ridiculous. >> Getting urination on the bed of your. enemy through the medium of. prostitution. I think that's kind of an. artistic thing to do. But I don't think. he did it. I obviously didn't do it. None of it's true, right? >> But you put that But isn't that weird. that that in partic That's like.

something I don't think anyone seriously. could believe. >> Well, there was plenty of people that. believed it and they don't Yeah, they. don't have to believe it. They just say. it. Like that was the whole point about, you know, the trial where he got. arrested and con or and convicted of 34. counts that are a felony. None of which. are actually a felony. That's all. bookkeeping deception. It's that was the. paying off of the girl. So now you can. say he's a convicted felon. You can just. say that. And even though all those.

counts were misdemeanors, all of them. had passed the statute of limitations. >> But for some reason through no legal way. that anybody could ever really honestly. explain, they decided to label it a. felony. And it was just to turn him into. a felon. >> I saw the I saw even left-leaning. anti-Trump lawyers saying, "This is not. how the law should work. You can't. artificially elevate a misdemeanor to a. felony outside the statute of. limitations. Crazy. >> The thing is if you do that, they're. going to do that to you. It's like we're.

going to give that kind of power to the. Republicans and now when they're in. office, they're going to start doing. things like that. Are we crazy? >> Well, also this really bothers me. Like. one of the key things that I think's. happened over the past few years is this. complete lack of filty to the truth from. both sides. It's whatever is convenient. matters more. a complete lack of. intellectual curiosity, a complete lack. of um of of of investigating and looking. and and and thoroughly checking. And by. the way, with the BBC that really. matters because unlike the the the news. media here, which can be as partisan as. it likes, the BBC is the state.

broadcaster. It's got a responsibility. by charter to not be to, you know, to be. balanced, to be evenhanded. And it. completely failed. And I saw today, just. this morning, some people, you know, we've got all the mania about the. Epstein files at the moment. Some. activists have now said JK Rowling once. invited Epstein to the opening of her. theater, her play. Uh, never happened. But because there's a Ferrari about. Epstein at the moment, they're just. saying it happened. It gets spread all. over the place. >> That's all you have to do. >> And that's all you have to do. And then. then the dam and then that gets.

repeated. Oh, didn't this happen? >> I know. >> Like what you say about Trump is right. I always hear that he's a convicted. felon. He's a convicted felon. Why don't you pause for a minute and. assess whether or not that conviction is. sound or whether it was politically. motivated or how helpful that is. >> But like you say, >> also it's like it's such a dangerous. president to send. It's terrible. Like. if you do that, >> it look right now in the United States. the the media predominantly leans left. except for Fox News, the mainstream.

largecale media. I guess CBS is probably. going to lean more right now. Yeah, >> it seems like it's [snorts] in the. process of that. But for the most part, when you watch CNN, if you watch MSNBC, if you watch the mainstream news, it's. very leftleaning. >> Yeah. >> But if the [ __ ] if right-wing people. started if if it was like more common. for the news to be right leaning and. then they started doing the exact same. thing about a left-leaning candidate. Yeah. >> This is so dangerous. And the idea that.

the left doesn't recognize that, which. are the people that have always been in. support of free speech, it's never been. a right-wing thing to support free. speech until now. It's always been a. left-wing thing. When I was a kid, it. was famously the case of the ADL. >> defending Nazis having the right to. protest and saying, "Look, we we think. what they're saying is abortant, but. it's very important that you get the. right to say whatever you feel." And. then the way to combat that is with much. better, more concise speech that's much.

more logical and makes sense. And this. is what you do. This is what debate is. for. This is this is we we've always. known this. >> Yeah. But I mean I I agree. I'm so. dispirited by that that very thing that. you've identified that the left used to. be about this. The left used to be all. about I mean that example you mentioned. of Skoi, wasn't it in Chicago? The the. Nazis marching through Skoi and the ACLU. saying we're you know we're defending. this. There was a book by a guy called. Aya Nia who was the head of the ACLU. called Defending Miami. >> Yeah, it wasn't the ADL. It was the. ACLU. >> It was the ACLU and and and he was.

saying um you know he's you know he's. Jewish. He's got uh he family members. who died in the Holocaust but he's. writing a book saying I'm defending. neo-Nazis right to free speech not. because I support them but because I. don't and I want to defend the principle. whereby I can tackle them and that's. speech right. >> So the in other words the the principle. is so much bigger. I mean the thing that. I think has been lost and now by the way. the ACLU complete about turn. I mean. there was a a lawyer for the ACLU. tweeting about how he wanted Abigail. Shrier's book banned and he said this is. the hill I will die on. [snorts] You. know that's a guy called Chase or was it.

a guy I think it's a trans activist. called Chase something? I can't. remember. Anyway, but but the point is. how far have you fallen when it comes to. these free speech issues? Left or right. it's nothing to do with it. It's it. should be about this principle of it's. not whether you agree with what they're. saying and the substance of what they're. saying. It's whether you want the. principle intact. And that principle. applies to us all. The very same. principle that allows the Nazis to say. all their crazy stuff is the principle. that allows us to to challenge it to to. to tackle it. >> Well, it's it's a very shortterm win.

And it's basically they're playing chess. and they decided I want that rook no. matter what. And then they just. sacrifice their queen. Like look what. you've done. Look what you've done for. this short-term victory. You're. essentially tanking civilization for a. decade where we have to sort this out. and like wa let the ship wash itself. back and forth until it writes. >> Yeah. So how how and how do you ensure. that it's not going to happen to you? Like I think about that there was a. national conservative conference in. Brussels about a year and a half ago. The local mayor said I don't like this.

And he had the police rush it shut it. down. And you had mainstream right-wing. figures like Nigel Farage Sella Bravan. How do they not think, "Hang on a. minute. If we establish that precedent, well, you can just shut down your. political opponents through the use of. police force. How will that not rebound. on me? How will that not happen to us?". >> Well, this is the argument that they're. using right now for Trump going after. his political opponents, >> right? Right. Cuz they opened that. Pandora's box, right? >> You guys did that with him. You and. everybody was saying how damn dangerous. it is. You can't [ __ ] do that. Even.

if you hate the guy, if like if there's. a real crime that you can get someone, but when you take a crime like the. bookkeeping stuff and turn it into a. felony that could put this man in jail. for the rest of his life for doing. something that turns out to be legal, you can pay people to shut up. >> Yeah. >> And this is so it's just it's so weird. that people for this short-term gain are. willing to tank, which is essentially. this whole structure of our civilization. that allows free discourse. You need it.

It's so important. It's so important to. be able to communicate and talk. If. podcasts didn't exist, there was no way. to talk through ideas. >> other than mainstream news. We would. still be stuck in some very bizarre. 1990s or 1980s narrative about how the. world works. >> Yeah. >> We would have real problems. We'd have. real problems if there wasn't. independent journalism like on Twitter. and on wherever they can post. >> Yeah. So, why don't they get it? I mean,

we've had like people in left-leaning. papers in the UK calling for Elon Musk. to be arrested because he's allowing. free speech on X or Twitter, whatever. you want to call it. Like what? >> Well, their offices got raided today in. some country. There was a country where. ex's offices got raided. Um I think one of the things was they. somehow another let there were I think. something had to do with child. pornography. >> Where was that? France. >> France. Fresh investigation into Grock.

>> And what is it? What are the. >> Oh, so you know what this is all about. >> Suspected offenses, including unlawful. data extraction and complicity in the. possession of child pornography. >> Yeah, but that's not what this is about. This is because people have been. misusing Grock to like put bikinis on. women they like or even in a few. horrible cases creating child child. sexual. >> You can do Wait a minute. You can't. create child pornography. >> I don't think you can. No. or or at. least I think that's very much been shut. down and safeguarded, right? I think. that's what's happened. >> I mean, unless there's like some sort of.

a loophole where you could get it to do. it. Among potential crimes, it said it. would investigate where complicity in. possession or organized distribution of. images of children of a pornographic. nature, infringement of people's image. rights with sexual deep fakes. Okay. The. sexual deep fakes. Yeah. So, sexual deep. flakes is like if you put Hillary. Clinton in a bikini and made her hot, that's a sexual deep fake. >> Okay. Right. fraudulent data extraction. by an organized group. I think you can. still do some of that stuff. >> You can put people in bikinis.

>> Yeah, I think you can do that. So like. if you wanted to take Shaquille O'Neal. and put him in a bikini, you could say. you're sexualizing him. >> Okay. I Yeah, I mean I guess you can do. that. >> Yeah. >> So but that's what So that would be why. you know recently Kia Star, Prime. Minister UK said he wanted was. considering or not necessarily he was. going to ban X but it wasn't off the. table. It's something like he as though. he's going to do that. But this is. always the excuse like we're protecting. children, >> right? >> And and look, no one wants that sort of. stuff, right? No one wants deep fakes of. kids obviously.

>> But there's far I mean looking at the. stats on that. There's far more child. sexual sex sexual exploitation on. Snapchat for instance. >> But they don't go after Snapchat because. Snapchat isn't the form where Kia. Starmer is getting criticized every. single day and brutally hauled over the. coals by by people checking his facts. One of the best things about X recently. is the community notes. Checking. checking journalists and politicians in. real time with facts. They hate it. They. hate that. So, no wonder they're going. after X. >> Yeah. Biden got cooked by community. notes multiple times to the point where.

the administration was taking down. posts. >> Yeah. So did the uh the Guardian, the. left-leaning newspaper. It flounced off. X with a big statement saying, "We're. going to Blue Sky. We've had it. We're. off to Blue Sky. It was such a flounce.". And of course and then of course. everyone was retweeting all the their. community notes. We had loads of them. >> Of course, >> just absolutely loads of. >> because it's not true. And you know, especially when it's open to the whole. world and people that aren't stuck under. your guidelines like in America, we. could just talk [ __ ] And I think the. reason why it's in France probably has a.

lot to do with Candace Owens. >> It Oh, yes. That makes complete sense. >> Yeah. Mcronone and like I mean, how many. times did that get shared? >> Yeah, exactly. >> I mean, that is. >> that makes sense of it. Now, >> by the way, there's a real quick way to. solve that. Open [laughter] chromosome. test. Go ahead. >> I thought you were going to be a bit. more graphic than that. >> Well, you don't have to. >> because that doesn't really solve it. because you could if unless I mean. there's no operation, but if she's gone. through a surgery, then you know you. could show a picture and it's probably. pretty realistic, especially when was.

the last time you saw a 70-year-old. lady's. >> cter last week. >> Oh, yeah. Congratulations. >> I'm just interested in that sort of. stuff. >> Well, you know, you're allowed to be. curious in this country. >> That's actually a really good example, though, isn't the just something so. obviously not true just going all over. the world like like in a in a matter of. moment. >> is it not true though. >> well that um Macron's wife is a man yeah. that's not true. >> 100%. >> well you know the burden of proof is on. those who want to say that it is true. >> the reality of the story is weird enough. without it being true like the.

40-year-old man and the. >> he was wasn't she his his 40 yeah she. was 40 if it was it if it is actually a. woman she was 40 and he was 15 that's. crazy And everyone says, "Well, they're. French." That's that seems to be that. seems to be the thing. >> What a wild country. >> That that's that's [laughter]. people just say that's the way it works. in France. Yeah. But again, look, I. would say with all of this stuff, you. need some sort of proof. You need like. when when you wasn't it the Carl Sean. thing about extraordinary claims require. extraordinary evidence. I think that's a.

pretty safe dictat. The idea that okay, anything could be true, you know, or you. know, there have been crazy conspiracies. that turned out to be true. So, I'm not. I would never rule anything out, but. what I'm saying is if you're going to. make a claim like that, you better be. damn sure you've got really solid. evidence about it. >> She's got hours long documentaries on. this. >> Yeah. And are they are they persuasive? >> We I haven't watched them all. You think. I have that kind of time, dog? [laughter]. >> Well, you should do what? You should do. your research before you're part of the.

problem. Outrageous. >> I can't do research on that. I I I want. to wait till it plays out in court. But. whenever I do do re like I'll give you. the the example from this week just. because I'm reading it now. A woman's. written a book claiming that Shakespeare. was a black woman. >> I saw that. >> Yeah. [laughter]. Um so um this is a major spoiler alert. Shakespeare wasn't a black woman. By the. way crazy. >> Yeah. I've got the book. I'm I'm reading. the book now. Um it is worse than you. imagined. Part of the evidence. >> How could it be worse than I imagined? >> Because because it's obviously not true,

first of all, of course. But but but um. she basically says in the book that um. it's important that it should be true. and therefore Yeah. And in fact the book. opens with a picture of Shakespeare as a. black woman which was drawn by the. author. >> That's that. [laughter] So. >> is it a good drawing? >> It's okay. I get I don't want to mock. someone else. >> Can I see it? >> If it's out it's the it's the first Oh, that's the. >> That's actually pretty good. >> No, no. That's No, no, no. >> That's a black woman. >> No, no, no. That's a portrait of Amelia.

Lanya, who she says was Shakespeare. And. she says that the portraits at the time. were whitened to disguise her blackness. In in the book itself, >> convenient. >> In the book itself, you won't be able to. get in the book, I don't think, Jamie, but in the book itself, there's a sketch. that she's done. So, it's like I can. imagine a publisher saying, "Oh, what. evidence have you got?" And she's like, "Oh, well, I'll I'll go and draw it for. you." And that's sort of what. >> Oh, she's black and Jewish. >> Yeah. Black Jewish. Well, actually, I. mean, Amelia Lanya was part part. Moorish, but wasn't black, and she. wasn't particularly dark skinned,

>> and she was Jewish as well. >> Yeah, part Jewish. >> Okay. So, who is this woman that they're. saying actually was Shakespeare? >> Uh, so she's called Amelia Lana or. Amelia Basano. Um, and one of the. arguments is that Shakespeare at the. time, if she was a woman, wouldn't have. been able to get published because women. couldn't get published. But Amelia Lana. was published. She had a book of poetry. So all of this stuff falls apart like in. two seconds flat. And she all right this. is the best one. She even says in the. book that um the word Shakespeare is an. anagram of uh a she speaker. [laughter].

I'm not making that up. That's what she. says. I mean, >> you know, listen, [snorts]. >> it's a cover up. How'd she crack the. case? [laughter]. >> Well, actually, it's an old theory. It's. It's like a 20-y old theory. Is it. really? I tell you, >> 20 years old. She's just sort of rehashing it now for. this identitarian postwoke world where. we're all like we're desperate for. Shakespeare to be a black woman and and. it's so. >> that's so funny. >> It's so pathetic. [laughter]. >> This was my first encounter with.

conspiracy theorist because my. background is I did a doctorate in. Shakespeare. My background was teaching. Shakespeare back in the day like before. I did comedy and before I did anything. else. And it was the conspiracy. theorists around Shakespeare saying. Shakespeare couldn't have written his. work. They are the most intense, the. most angry, the most evidence-free. cohort of people you can. They get more. They're angrier than the woke. I promise. you. Like I've tweeted I've written. stuff about Shakespeare online. I I. recently did some lectures about. Shakespeare for the Peterson Academy. because I'm really into help. I I love. the Peterson Academy. I love what. they're doing. And I did these.

Shakespeare lectures and the conspiracy. theorists were on to me online saying it. wasn't Shakes here. You the guy from. Stratford didn't write this. And what. all these theories have in common is. they've just made they there's no. evidence. There's no evidence. The key. point about Shakespeare is if you're. going to say it wasn't the guy who. everyone thought it was, you have to. answer one key question. Why does. everyone who knew Shakespeare wrote. about Shakespeare, say that it was. >> Can I stop you because I'm confused. I. didn't even know that there was a. conspiracy about Shakespeare. >> Oh wow. Yeah, there's lots. I had heard.

one person say that Shakespeare wasn't. real and that it was really someone. else's work that he plagiarized. Yeah, I. had heard that, >> but I never even bothered to [ __ ] around. with it. >> Well, it actually came from America. It's you guys. Um, it was the best. [laughter]. >> We're number one. >> It was a guy called Lo Guy called Looney. actually from America. >> That's hilarious. You got to listen to. that guy. [laughter]. So he we're going back like 60 70 years. or something but he came up with this. idea that Shakespeare was actually an. aristocrat called Edward Dvere the Earl. of Oxford. Problem is Edward Deve died.

in6004 that's before McBth that's before. Anthony and Cleopatra that's before. Corolanus that's before the Tempest. So. he managed to I think they get around it. by saying he wrote these plays and then. he and then he died and then the. >> Shakespeare found them. >> or or something. Yeah. So, so even. though some of those plays actually have. cultural references from the time after. Dvere died, but it doesn't matter. Maybe. he was a prophet as well, >> but but but all of the all of the you. speak to these people, you'll you'll see. what I mean. Edward Deve, they think. some people think it was Francis Bacon,

some people think it was Christopher. Marlo, some people think it was. Elizabeth the first, like all all of the. candidates they put up, right? The key. thing is they're all aristocrats, they're all posh. Why? Because. Shakespeare was a middle class, lower. middle class, not very rich, >> didn't go to university, came from the. Midlands, you know, upand cominging guy. who, and they say, well, how could. someone like that write about kings and. lords and ladies? It's snobbery. They're. basically saying working-class people. can't do can't do art. That I mean, really, that's what it is. Otherwise, they wouldn't be going after all these.

aristocrats. >> And the it's the opposite in America, oddly, >> is it? >> Yeah. So if you were a Rockefeller in. America, you're from the Rockefeller. family and you wrote an amazing novel, no one would believe it, >> right? >> They would say, "No, that has to be like. some guy who or some woman who's like. grinding, drinking coffee and smoking. cigarettes alone in their apartment to. write something as brilliant.". >> So I wonder what it is about the UK. Well, although like I say, a lot of it. comes from America. And is it just the. the need to tear down an icon? Is it.

that is it? Yeah. I mean, I get it now. with this woman who who's saying. Shakespeare is a black woman. >> I get that at the moment because we're. in this moment of identitarian group. identity mania, right? >> So, that makes sense. She's got a. political reason why she wanted to be a. black woman. So, I kind of understand. that more. >> But what is it? I think it might be more. to do with the idea that. >> this guy changed civilization, changed. literature. No one else has achieved. what he achieved in writing. He's up. there with Michelangelo, Bark, you know, all of that. Let's tear that down. Let's. tear down Western civilization. Let's.

say none of this is based on anything. This is all this is all untrue. >> I think it's to do with the that innate. iconoclasm, that innate, you know, just. just tearing down the great things about. our culture. >> Yeah, for sure. That's always been the. case. And and people always want to tear. down idols. They want to tear down, you. know, whoever it is, no matter what. I. was watching this video we were talking. about the other day of this woman. talking about how the Beatles are. terrible, >> right? >> And this woman's not very articulate, not particularly interesting, doesn't. seem that compelling. Yeah.

>> And she was going on and on about how. bad the Beatles were. Like, >> you're not going to convince anyone. That's just not going to work. But. people are gonna [ __ ] try. They're. gonna try no matter what. No matter who. it is. Hendrick sucked. I've heard that. before. Really? >> Hendrick sucked. Like, stop. >> But at least that's based on an opinion, right? There's a there's a difference. between saying Jimmyi Hendricks sucked. and Jimmyi Hendris was actually a woman. from Liverpool called Maud. >> Well, you know the theory about Jimmyi. Hendricks in America. Do you know that? >> No. >> Okay. So, it's the people that are like. deep into the CIA and CIA conspiracies.

and what is it called? Strange Tales. from the Canyon. Is that what it's. called? The book. Um, so there's a book. on there's a bizarre connection between. a lot of the countercultural figures of. the 1960s and and the intelligence. community. >> Uh, one of them is Jim Morrison's father. was like a high-ranking military. officer. And then there's different. people from different bands that were. like a key part of the countercultural. movement that all have parents that were.

either in intelligence communities or. closely connected to it. >> like a suspicious scenes inside the. canyon. It's a crazy book. It's uh it's. fun. It's kind of fun. Um. >> is it crazy as in like [clears throat]. the revelations are crazy or that it's. just not true? >> Well, it they they make some broad. leaps, right? So there's a lot of and. then a year later he died in mysterious. circumstances or a year later he died. from suicide or a year later he died. from an overdose. You well well okay. you're hanging out with a bunch of.

people that are doing drugs all the time. and they're all near dwells and they're. all hanging out in Laurel Canyon. If you. don't know Laurel Canyon, Laurel Canyon, at least at the time I mean when I first. moved to Hollywood it's like all the. weirdos would live in Laurel Canyon, right? Like all the weirdos were like. right there above Hollywood and there. was all these crazy parties up there. It. was like Laurel Canyon was nuts. >> and they all knew each other, right? So. they're all part of that circle. >> I mean this was like when I moved there. in the '9s this was the case. >> My friend Dave Foley had a house up.

there, right? >> And it was like all these kooky people. and he's telling me about all these. kooky parties and all this different. [ __ ] It was like Laurel Canyon was. always like kind of so of course a bunch. of people are gonna die. Of course, a. bunch of people are going to be. connected to bands and and different. [snorts]. >> counterculture movies. The theory is. that the CIA. >> um sort of engineered this this culture. >> to I don't know why. I'm I'm not exactly. sure cuz I haven't gotten all the way. through the book. I'm like only like. half. Are.

>> you still still reading it? Okay. >> No, I pick it up every now and then. It's just like it's too kooky. It's. >> it's not grabbing you. Well, you can't make Jimmyi Hendris in a lab. Okay, you can't. It's just you can't. [ __ ] do it. You can't make someone. that good. It's not possible. You can't. tell me that if they did, why haven't. they done it since? Why don't they do it. all the time? >> Right. >> Greatest guitarist of all time. And. you're telling me the Central. Intelligence cooked that guy up? >> So, they invented him like he's like.

their clone or something. I just think that they had some sort of. an influence on these people on Jim. Morrison. Like there's a thing about. Morrison the Mor the Morrison one like. what is the connection between Jim. Morrison's dad and the intelligence. agencies? There's some like tangible. connection with Jim Morrison's dad. But. wouldn't you just normally assume that. if your dad was some high-ranking. military guy, first of all, never home. Yeah. Okay. So where are you? You're out. running around with your friends smoking.

cigarettes and [ __ ] drinking and. you're in a band and it turns out you. got a lot of angst and pain because. you're being neglected as as a child cuz. your dad works 16 hours a day trying to. [ __ ] the country over and so what do you. do? You go counterculture. It's like. it's so common. The preacher's daughter, she becomes like a harlot, right? >> So there we high ranking US officer with. Yeah. Right. >> But that is okay. But again, like this. is a perfect example. >> Wow. He's involved in the Gulf of Tonkan. incident. Whoa. But that's not proof of. anything.

>> No, no, no, no, no. But his dad is. >> Yeah. But but but you know, but this is. the thing. They'll [snorts] take. something like that. They'll take. various strips of coincidences and they. say this leads us to this conclusion. But all they're doing is coming up with. a conclusion first and working. backwards. Like th this sort of stuff. you see it again and again. >> So this is how this connects with. intelligence agencies. Maccgawan. I. guess that's the author. Core move is to. group Morrison's father with other. Laurel Canyon musicians parents who. worked in military defense or. intelligence linked roles and to frame.

this as evidence of a broader covert. program around the 1960s rock scene. >> Come on. >> Yeah. >> So, are you saying that the CIA were. trying to influence the culture through. the medium of rock music? >> Uhhuh. And that's somehow tied to. espionage. And. >> they also have that film. [clears throat] like studio. >> What's that? >> What? >> Jared Leto bought that place. That was a. film studio in Laurel Canyon, too. >> Oh, well, it's a base. It's a It's an. actual base. Yeah, Jared. >> A lot of films. >> I was talking to Jared about that. I had.

I had dinner with Jared Leto one night. He's very cool, by the way. Very very. nice guy. Very normal. And by the way, he looks like he's 30. He's 50 years. old. It's crazy. I'm like, what are you. doing with your [ __ ] skin? You look. great. Lookout Mountain Laboratory, Air. Force Station. >> So, he bought that place and converted. it into a home. [laughter]. >> It's where he lives. It's a dope spot. >> Sound stage. >> Looks quite nice. >> Sound stage, film laboratory, two. screening rooms, four editing rooms, an. animation and still photo department, sound mixing studio, numerous climate. controlled film vaults.

>> And this is connected to the conspiracy. somehow. >> Well, this was an actual military base. >> located in that same neighborhood. >> Okay. So this Air Force station, whatever it was, I wonder what they were. doing. Like why do they need all that. film capability? Why do they need to be. >> in theory? I guess like when they would. [snorts] show the atomic bombs going off. and would play it in the movie theater. for people to see it. That's like that's. how they would make the actual like, you. know, reals and whatnot. >> Well, that makes sense. Right. Makes. sense that they were right there in. Hollywood if that's what they were doing.

>> on top. I don't what other other things. they made. See, like here's a the still. from Okay. >> Lookout Mountain Lab. It's a studio. then, a special effect, >> but it's in that same neighborhood at. the at the same time. >> But so what I mean I I think with all of. it, [laughter]. he's not arguing for it. God damn it, Jamie. >> The so what of it is that there wasn't. that many of them to begin with and just. they all happen to be in their but I. think with all of this stuff from each. other again and again the pattern is. >> either there's gaps there's gaps in what. we know and people decide to fill them.

in themselves because there's a kind of. comfort to that. There's also some kind. of comfort with I know something that no. one else does. I've got the answer. There's a status element to that. I. remember I read a book when I was a kid. like teenager called the sacred virgin. and the holy [ __ ] and it was about um. sort of books I read and it was about um. Jesus and it was trying to prove that. Jesus was a woman and and and as you're. reading it you're thinking yeah oh yeah. Jesus is a woman I can't believe I look. at that and then you get to the end you. think what the hell did I just read and. and it's that thing of you can marshall. any kind of uh halfbaked fact or any you.

can marshall certain things that we can. see and fill in the gaps yourself and. lead to a crazy conclusion. What. concerns me isn't so much that people do. that cuz people have done that forever. as long as they've been human beings. Is. that now people are leaping at it and. falling for it in a way that I haven't. seen, maybe it is just social media, right? But it. >> can I give you an example of this? >> Yeah, please. >> A recent one which I just thought was. nuts. Did you see the portrait of King. Charles III by an artist? I think his.

name is Yo Yo. Um a red It's a big red. portrait which currently hangs in. Buckingham Palace. >> Oh, I have seen that. It's crazy. If you. take a qu a quarter of it, invert it, flip it, add a bit and squint, it looks. like a goat devil, right? But you have. to do a lot of steps to find the goat. devil. Of course puzzle. >> You could probably [laughter]. >> How dare you? >> I'm sorry. >> How dare you dismiss that puzzle? Let's. So show the photo and show how it's done. cuz it's kind of fun. >> Can you see the goat? Oh, there we go. So, can you see the ghost? >> First of all, just the photo by itself.

Like, hey, man, what the [ __ ] are you. doing? Am I splattered in blood? >> I've seen it in the flesh. It's It's a. creepy. >> one thing if he did that in all white. It was an all-white background. That. would be one thing. Like, oh, that's. kind of an interesting look. Or, you. know, pastel. >> So, what are you saying? Are you already. suspicious? Is that what you're saying? >> Well, the the photo's nuts. Like, the. painting is nuts. >> Where's the goat? >> So, all you have to do is put it. together side by side. You don't have to. do that much. You exaggerated how much. you have to do. >> No, I saw a video that look at it upside.

down. Looks. >> Oh, no. Look, I Well, the other way I I. found a goat. >> Put it back. Put it back. Show that one. >> I can completely see the goat now. >> That's 100% a goat. They did it on. purpose. >> That is That's a That's a sign. Go back. to the other one, though. [laughter]. Click on that one. I see a goat there. I. see some evil demon. Look at two. eyeballs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, bro. >> Where? >> 100%. Stop. Stop trying to gaslight me. [laughter] I see a monster. >> Oh, well. I mean, >> you can find something in everything,

man. still looks all superimposed. >> I mean, you see. >> I can see Martha Stewart in that. >> The Virgin Mary and a grilled cheese. sandwich. >> You can see in the clouds and the rocks. and like like there's a term for this. where our brains look for patterns and. things. And. >> I had a conversation once with a friend. of mine that I didn't know was going. crazy, right? >> And uh he goes, "Uh, hey, you want to. see something crazy?" And he he pulls. out his phone. >> and he shows me a cloud. >> Yeah. >> And I go, "What is that?" He goes, "Dude, I'm seeing this all day." And he. he shows me some other ones. He's got. like hundreds of photos of clouds on his. phone. Yeah.

>> I go, "What are you seeing?" So, these. are UFOs. He goes, "These are. spaceships. This is not a regular. cloud.". >> And I'm looking at the photos like he's. just been taking pictures of clouds all. day and I realized, "Oh my god, my. friend is going schizophrenic.". >> He's I didn't know him well. I say. friend. >> Yeah. Okay. Okay. >> The more I talked to him, the more I. realized there was something cracked. >> Like he's a guy I hadn't seen in like. maybe seven or eight years. And I ran. into him at a comedy club and he was. just showing me photos of clouds on his. phone. And I was like then in during the.

conversation I realized like oh he. cracked. >> but but aren't you concerned that that. kind of thing is now kind of common like. that from people who aren't necessarily. unwell people who are just seeing stuff. >> Well it's fun. I think it's Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's exciting for people to. uncover information that the general. public is ignorant of. Right. >> And so there's here's the thing about. like the Laurel Canyon thing. There's. enough of the CIA meddling in cultural. events that's absolutely true and. provable. Yeah. And that's MK Ultra. And.

that's what they did with Charles. Manson. And that's the book Chaos by Tom. O'Neal, which is a brilliant book, which. is very well doumented in details Jolly. West and his influence on the Manson. family and how they were influencing. these people to try to sabotage the. hippie movement. Right? So, the hippie. movement was this change in culture. where all of a sudden people were. rejecting the war movement. They were. rejecting, you know, they were free love. and they were doing acid and people were. freaking out. Their kids were just. disappearing and following the Grateful. Dead around.

>> And they took this guy, Charles Manson, that's very charismatic con man. They. taught him how to dose people up with. acid and influence them and they got. them to commit murders. >> But there is evidence for this, right? So you're talking about a book that is. researched, >> right? >> Point, right? you know, you're being. logical and I, you know, you're correct. But what I'm saying is because of that, people go, "Well, what else?" Folks, >> well, what? And so then they make these. big leaps like Jimmyi Hendris is a CIA.

creation, >> right? >> And which but if you're a logical. person, you just listen to Voodoo. Child's slight return and you're like, how? How? This is like if that's true, CIA should get back to work. Make. another one of those, bro. So I wonder. whether this is this is I think this is. the fallout of the woke movement. This. is the the divorcing of reality and. truth. Yeah. The idea that that it that. it doesn't matter not just about what is. expedient but what we want to believe. I've got friends. >> I think we should stop saying it's the. fallout of the woke movement. I think we.

should start saying it's a natural. pattern that human beings automatically. fall into in order to support their. belief systems and enforce their. particular ideology over whatever. opposing ideology is escalating. It. escalates but it's because of social. media that everything is escalating now. >> But is it just social media? I mean, I. think another thing that's a major. reason for it, we had co we had all. these people telling all these experts. telling us it's a racist conspiracy.

theory to say that it came from a lab in. Wuhan. Now everyone knows that's almost. certainly true. We had people in. positions of authority lying to us. [clears throat] So it's something about. this culture war that. >> but that's not real culture war that was. using the culture war because they were. trying to cover something up. >> But but they leapt to race, didn't they? they linked to because they were using. the culture war to cover up their crime. >> So if that's but in either case, what. what you've got effectively is a. legitimation crisis. You've got people. in charge. We've been lied to so often.

But but what I don't think you should. therefore do I like I'm all for being. skeptical about people in authority, academics, politicians, journalists, they've all lied. But that firstly. doesn't mean that all experts and all. journalists and all people have lied. because there's been some good ones all. the way. But also that doesn't mean that. you automatically leap to any conclusion. evidence-free that jumps before you. without some kind of critical analysis. The same thing that you're criticizing. those people for failing at. You're. falling into the same trap yourself. I.

don't mean you. >> But you're Andrew Doyle. You're a. brilliant guy who writes books and. you're really smart. The idea is that. you are immune to this stuff because. you're intelligent, but the unwashed. masses are not. I don't think I'm immune. at all. I don't I I I honestly don't. I. wouldn't put myself. >> Well, you're immune to the dumbest [ __ ]. >> I'd like to think so. You are. But but I. But. >> I am. >> Yeah. But don't you think that all of us. in the right circumstances could end up. falling for. >> 100%. But I'm not in those currently. But I like to believe and maybe it's a.

naivity on my part, but I like to. believe that most people are, you know, have a kind of natural intellectual. curiosity, you know, have if they are if. they stop for a moment and think and and. uh, you know, and and don't just trust. instinct over reason. >> I think we're all capable of it. I just. think we're not all realizing it. >> Well, it's not just that. It's like some. people are medicated, right? So, some. people are on a bunch of different. medications that dull their senses. And. then you've got people that have gotten. to wherever they are in life. Maybe.

they're in their 50s. >> and they're set in their ways and they. have no desire to change at all. And so, they've been living a dumb life for 50. plus years. You can't all of a sudden. say, "Hey, Mark, I want you to be. logical and introspective and think. about this thing and analyze it and for. what it really is." Instead of holding. on to your ideological beliefs that. you've kind of locked yourself into and. you identify with and any attacks on. those is attack on you personally, I. want you to just let's look at the. facts. This episode is sponsored by.

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>> But you saying that sounds very. persuasive to me. Like the way you put. that. Like if I were that guy, I'd be. like, "Oh, listen to Joe now. >> [ __ ] weirdo [ __ ] liberals [ __ ]. with your [ __ ] you're just a [ __ ]. they they'll come up with some sort of. >> King Charles is a goat. >> You're uh controlled opposition or. you're a useful idiot or they'll put a. label on you. >> I've been called I've been told I get. dark money. >> Yeah. >> How do you get any of that? >> Well, I love it. I want it. I want the.

dark money. It's so dark. I haven't seen. any of it. That's how dark it is. >> What's dark money? I think it's when. it's like um some rich uh ideologue. who's sort of slipping you in money to. say the thing. You know what it is? It's. that thing of I don't believe that you. disagree with me. I'm too narcissistic. to believe that you disagree with me. You must be being paid to have these. paid off, bro. >> You're paid off. Trust me, I would love. that. If anyone's out there wants to pay. me off, I'll be a mouthpiece. I'm, you. know, [laughter]. I haven't had that opportunity. >> It's pretty low. I'm a bit I'm a. [laughter] I'm a bit of a [ __ ] if if. truth be told. I've got a mortgage. Come.

on. I will say any crazy [ __ ] if you. want me to. >> Well, there's certainly a lot of people. that fall into that category, too. So, people do get nervous about it. I mean, obviously, you're joking, but there's a. lot of people that will change their. opinion. Oh, sure. If money comes their. way, >> but I I like to assume people mean what. they say. And my logic behind that is. even when they don't, you can still. dismantle the argument even if it's. authentic or not. You know, even if it's. authentically believed. >> Sure. >> So, so that that I think that's just the. best way to go about it. >> The best way is debate. That's the best.

way or at least conversation. >> But that's what we've lost. So I think I. think that hits on it actually because. >> I say debate but that sounds formal. >> No, I know what you mean. You mean the. so recent Can I give you an example of. that? My am I um so I went to uh UC. Berkeley, the University of UC Berkeley. in California. >> They let you leave. >> Well, almost not. Right. So [laughter] I. what had happened was you know Charlie. Kirk's tour was planned to go all the. way through and this was the last date.

the Berkeley date and after his. assassination various people went and. did the shows because they said because. Turning Point rightly said we're not. going to give an assassin the veto of. our tour. We finished the tour. >> and uh Rob Schneider who I've been. working with in Arizona I've come over. here to work with him. >> the comedian. >> Yeah. So so I've been This is how I. escaped from the UK I should say. So, me. and Graeme Lahan, who you've had on your. show, the comedy writer, >> my comedy uh writing partner and friend. Martin Goule, the three of us, >> we uh decided that things were so bad in.

the UK. Uh we'd rather write and do. creative stuff in America. Rob. Schneider, who I'd met many years ago, he said, "Come on over. We'll set up a. production company." We've been working. in Arizona on all these various. projects. It's so liberating and also. it's the middle of the desert, so I. [ __ ] love the heat. And you know, you. go from England to that, it's kind of. it's kind of exciting. >> Nice contrast. So, so we've been able. to, you know, we and look, I don't want. to do down the UK or say, but what I. will just say is the creative industries. there are pretty stagnant. They're not. like here. There's so many more ways.

>> How can you be free? How can you if you. worried about going to jail for a meme? >> Well, got arrested at the airport by. five armed officers. >> right after he left this podcast. >> Was that it? >> Yes. And it was. >> he came over, did this podcast, went. back to visit his family and got. arrested shortly after he did the. podcast. >> So when people say to me that's not a. real problem that I mean Graeme had done. three tweets. >> One of them was just they were all joke.

tweets by the way. They were all jokes. and one of them was just it was. something like ladies if a guy's in your. changing room or in your bathroom. scream, make a fuss, call the police. If. all else fails, kick him in the balls. And it's obviously a ry way of saying, "Look, the guy's got genitals. The guy's. >> That was why he got arrested. He on the. night he got arrested, he was texting. me. He said, "I've just been arrested. I've been taken to the hospital cuz my. blood pressure is so high. The police. took him to the hospital cuz they'd. raised cuz and and you and you say. there's no problem in the UK with. creativity." He's one of our best comedy.

writers. He's the most beloved comedy. writer. He hasn't been able to work in. TV for six years, right? uh the like. he's won all the awards going and so we. just. >> how can you be creative in that. environment? He can't. >> And so we just figured. >> let's let's get on a raft. >> especially someone like you. So for. people who don't know I should probably. tell everybody you are Tatiana McGroth. >> So yeah. >> well here's what's funny about that. >> Your satirical character who you created. many many years ago. When did you create. her? >> 2018.

>> Okay. when you created her, I had you on. the podcast shortly after we we laughed. about it. I have seen her quote tweeted. with people agreeing with her. >> Yeah. Yeah. Even now. >> Yeah. All the time. >> So with it's it's so I Yeah. If people. don't know, it's a character called. Tatania McGrath. She's a woke just so. social justice warrior, right? >> It's so good. [laughter]. >> It's [ __ ] great. It's one of my. favorite follows. >> But you know, I I I don't do it as often. as I used to. You know, I used to do it.

all the time, but then I wrote two books. as her. I did a live show as her. [laughter] By the way, when we when I. did a live show, we were booked in for a. week in the West End in London, and then. the head of the theater found out and. scotched it and and actually said, "Oh, well, I didn't know about this." And the. contracts were all signed. Absolutely. crazy. Anyway, it doesn't matter. Um, but we did this, well, it does matter, I. suppose. Um, but the point is that, you. know, so I I did this character. You. >> have satire at your theater. My god. Well, the theater industry in the UK is. even worse than comedy if you want to go.

there. It's really really bad. But. >> [laughter]. >> um like uh I've been in in two different. theaters in London. I've been had the. same experience of standing at the bar. with a woman complaining because there's. men uh pissing in her toilet and they're. doing nothing about it because all the. theaters in London have made it all. gender neutral. They've gone completely. completely hardcore woke. Anyway, that's. not the point. But with with Tatana, what what I find so surprising is every. now and then if something annoys me, I'll tweet or or if I think of. something, I'll do I don't do it. anywhere near as often as I used to. But. even now, uh I did a tweet about, you.

know, when all the people [snorts] in. London were marching, uh about the peace. deal in the Middle East, >> and I did a tweet as her saying, I've. been marching all day, you know, I want. a I want a peace deal that was not. arranged by Donald Trump. We're never. going to give up this fight, right? And. >> Ted Cruz retweeted it saying, can this. be real? So e even even now [laughter]. they're. >> these [ __ ] boomers. He's not even a. boomer. He's not even a boomer. I think. he's younger than me. How old is Ted. Cruz? I think he's younger than me, which is hilarious.

>> I had the same with I did one about. >> How does he not know? Does he have no. friends? How old is [ __ ] Ted Cruz? >> Okay, that's crazy. So that dude's three. years younger than me [laughter] and he. doesn't he doesn't know satire. >> The anger I got from I did one the other. day recently about the Iran protest. >> When did Can I just stop? I want to get. into this. When did he tweet about this? >> That's hilarious. >> Yeah, >> you're that account. There it is. There. it is. How How many follows does T Okay, so this Oh, sorry. This. >> This is possibly real. No. Well,

obviously it's not. >> So, this this was actually after Trump's. election. So, she said, "I just fired my. immigrant housekeeper because even. though I'd educated her about the evils. of Donald Trump, she still voted for. him. There's no place for racism in my. house." [laughter]. >> Click on your account. I want to see how. many followers you have. Okay. 733,000. That's a famous account. Like [laughter]. radical intersectionalist poet, non-white, obviously white, ecoexual, hilarious, pronouns variable, selfless.

and brave. Buy my books. >> You'd think it was obvious, [laughter]. wouldn't you? >> Obvious. >> I mean, maybe he's busy. Maybe he's busy. and someone sent him that and he just. doesn't know. And but it's very. [laughter] funny. It's very funny. slightly bad about about those sort of. things. But then on the other hand, it. does it does sort of prove the point. that that the stuff they're really. saying can get as can get as close to. >> Oh, that's very close to real. That's. very close to real. And this it's it's. shifted radically since 2018.

>> I mean, [clears throat] in the 8 years. since you created her, she has become. like more real. >> Yeah. >> It's like when AI is going to turn her. into a real person. >> Yeah. Like, oh, oh, maybe. I hadn't even. thought of that. >> She's going to be a real person. It's. going to be a real dangerous Greta. Thurberg type character. >> But don't you worry about that. I mean. like AI. Oh, a good example of that. I. was uh just I use AI mostly as a search. engine because what's great about it is. you could say, "Oh, I read an article. like 10 years ago that said something. like this." And it will find it and. you'd never find that on Google,

>> right? >> And I was trying to find this article. It was from my book actually. There was. a there was a case in the UK where a uh. a guy had raped a 13-year-old girl, but. because he was um he was Muslim and he'd. gone to a madrassa and the judge let him. off jail time, said, "You were very. sexually naive. You didn't understand.". Uh the guy was saying, "Oh, I I thought. women were nothing." And like a lollipop. you dropped on the floor. And the judge. let him off jail time. And I thought, "This is quite extreme.". >> And I could I found it. It came up on. Chuck GPT. And then it deleted. And I. said, "Um oh uh I think you just deleted.

the information for me. It's in the. public domain. Why did you do that? It. said, "Oh, uh, you know, it's fine. It. might violate my terms of service." And. I said, "Well, how could it? This is an. article that's in the public domain.". So, it gave me the information again, deleted it again. I said, "You keep. deleting this. Stop it." And said, "I. definitely won't delete it." Then it did. the same again. So, what it's doing is. it's saying because this is a news story. that could be deemed anti-immigrant or. this is a new story that is politically. sensitive. I'm not going to let you see. it. >> Was this in America you were doing this? >> UK. >> Oh, I wonder if you could do it in.

America. Let's find out. Let's try. Well, let's try Perplexity. Put that. into Perplexity. See, I I doubt that. Perplexity would. >> I have to find the article he was using. and I don't know what article he looked. up. >> Well, why don't you just ask the. question asked. >> 10 years ago. >> So, it's it's it's a story about uh a. going to take a minute. >> That would take that take a while to. >> Well, it how I mean. >> maybe he didn't do it 10 years ago. He. did it recently. >> No, no, it was a story. It's a story. from years ago, >> right? But you found it with Chat GPT, which is obviously recently. >> I found a Daily Mail article about it. So, it's on public domain. there, but it.

just it just it didn't want me to find. the fact that it decided wasn't good for. me to find. >> Right. But it showed it to you and then. it pulled it back, which is crazy. Like, how does it not know? >> It showed it and deleted it. It showed. it and deleted it four or five times and. I realized I'm not I'm not going to get. this information. But then, >> so when it showed it, how long did it. show it for? >> Like about 5 seconds. You'd see the text. appearing and then it deletes, but I'd. seen enough to find it then on Google. So, I was able to find it and quote it. in my book. So, it's there. >> Whoa. But it made me think it's like.

that thing about. >> when people were asking Alexa, you know, do white lives matter, you know, and and. it was coming up with this kind of very. ideological and and you do wonder with. with AI and with the computers, you. know, if. >> if they are created by people who have. that bias. I know Grock is very. >> different. Yeah. But like um for. instance, I mean this is a crazy. example. >> A chat GBT is like an old school mom. that want that wants to make sure that. you you're protected, right? I was. writing this sounds really wanky. I'm. sorry but I was writing about the Roman.

historian Suatonius and there's a. passage in Suatonius where he talks. about the emperor Tiberius and it's very. sexually explicit but I was quoting it. for an article so I wanted to know what. it said and chatt said I can't translate. the Latin for you because this is too. sexually uh uh you know problematic I. went out to Grock and it did it straight. away because Grock isn't saying that you. uh are too delicate. >> to read the stuff and what's really. funny about that is the old dual. translations of the old Roman and Greek. texts they're called lurb editions you.

get them from 1900 they kept every they. translated everything except for the rub. bits which they kept in Latin. >> so Chad GPT is like the old you know. patronizing scholars of a of old who. said this is just for the learned people. you can't learn this. >> well wasn't the worst the first. iteration of Google Gemini that was the. worst cases. >> that turned Nazi soldiers into black. people [laughter]. and I don't know how that's a positive. message.

>> Showed us photos of German soldiers from. World War II and it was all interracial. >> Yeah. And Vikings. >> Yes. >> I mean, [laughter]. >> I don't know if you've been to. Scandinavia. Diversity not their big. thing. Or certainly wasn't then. >> Like you can't say that about the also. the Vikings came and maruded and raped. and set to villages, but at least they. were diverse. Hey, you know, at least. they had a broad range of ethnicities, right? But I mean, we're nearing a time. in America where white people are not. the majority anymore. So, at what point.

in time does that stop and we just call. people what they are, just people? >> But doesn't it bother you a bit that the. thing about that kind of thing is this, as I said, this obsession with group. identity, which is so of our time. Yeah. >> What it now actually means is re the. revision of history. >> If you're going to revise history and. say, "Oh, actually, you you've seen all. these sort of period dramas set in. England. There was a black anerlin as. though Henry VII would have married a. black woman. No, he wouldn't. You know, >> what if she was hot? >> She was a very attractive woman. Hey, I.

I'm not mocking her or knocking her. But. back then, >> what I'm saying is you can do anything. with colorblind cast colorlind casting. has never really particularly bothered. me. But it's when you are in a if you're. playing hyper realism, if you're playing. very similitude, you want people to buy. into the reality of it and you're. suddenly populating Edwardian England or. pre-edwwardian England as an ethnically. diverse place, which it wasn't. I'm not. saying black people weren't there, but. they were very, very a very small. minority. >> Isn't that a problem in the new Odyssey? >> Uh, Helen of Troy is black. >> Well, I say that I just saw it online,

so I might be being tricked by someone. making something up. You know, I caveat. that. I think Helen of Troy is black in. the new Odyssey. >> Well, let's find out. >> Um, can we check that one? But you. All right, if it's true, I'll tell you. why. I think that's ridiculous. >> How How far do we have to swing the. pendulum until Roots is redone with. white people? [laughter]. Can you imagine? Or an all black. Shindler's List. >> Right. Right. Right. >> Can you imagine Troy to be portrayed by. black actress in New Odyssey movie? >> And look, I'm sure she's very talented. I'm not knocking her. But the thing.

about the Greek the thing about Helen of. Troy, who probably didn't exist, I mean, even the Greeks knew she probably didn't. even exist. She's a myth. She's a she's. the epitome of Greek beauty. She's like. the uh she she's she's described all the. time in the ancient texts as fair and. blonde and and they're they're reaching. for an ideal of beauty. That's why they. went to war because of this woman. So. they wouldn't choose what they used to. call an ethop. The Greeks had a word for. it. The black African people. They. wouldn't choose a an icon of cultural. beauty from a different culture. They. wouldn't have done that. You know, it's.

all very well saying Greeks and. Mediterranean people and you know would. have wouldn't have been pure white. But. Helen of a Troy is a very specific and. it's actually quite important to the to. the plot and and and again if you're. doing a look for instance when they did. the all black Wizard of Oz the whiz I. imagine that in the late '60s would have. been quite radical and fun and wow I. can't believe they did that that's. brilliant but doing it now it's really. boring because everyone is doing it it's. so ben it's basically saying group. identity is everything and you you. people can't be racist and so therefore.

we're going to do this but it sometimes. throws you out of the Actually I'll tell. you the worst example, did you ever see. Darkest Hour, the Winston Churchill. film? >> No. >> So, you know, obviously he took on. Parliament. He said, "We're not going to. appease Hitler. Um, there's a scene in. the film, Gary Alman plays him. He goes. down into the tube, the underground, and. he's wrestling with his conscience." And. there's loads of black people on the. tube. There's white people, too, but. there's loads of black people. They the. public convince him, "No, you you need. to stand up for Hitler." Now, we know. that Churchill wasn't was a bit of a. racist. Didn't really like the you know,

fine. He was of his time. I'm not saying. anything more than that. It was obvious. time, but that it was so unreal. It was. so unreal. It was so it was almost like. the filmmakers were were saying racism's. never been a problem in the UK. Well, actually it has like and I kind of think. this is I I kind of think this is. >> although it's ostensibly progressive, I. think it does the reverse. I think it. says we never had a problem with race. We were all wonderful kumbaya. No, we. weren't. And actually the abolitionists, the the Thomas Henry Huxley's of the. world, the people who had to fight for.

racial equality and parity, they had. something to fight against, misrepresenting Yeah. >> stuff in the arts. >> And then beyond, I'm sorry I'm ranting. now cuz it really bothered me. But. beyond that, it throws you out of it in. a way that you suddenly think, I'm no. longer watching a film. I'm watching a. sermon. Oh, so this happened to me last week. Have you seen the Netflix series Ripley. about the talented Mr. Ripley? >> No, I have not. Right now, you remember. there used to be that film with Matt. Damon. >> years ago. It's the same story, same. novel, an old Patricia Highmith novel.

>> One of the main male characters in that. TV is a brilliant like Andrew Scott is. in it. Performances are brilliant. They. play it hyper realistically. It's all. black and white. It looks beautiful on. the Amalfi Coast. It's wonderful. Everything's working brilliantly. And I. was thinking, this is great. I'm not. being preached at. This is great. Then a. major male character turns up played by. a woman who calls herself non-binary. [snorts] And and [laughter]. not only are we meant to believe that. that's a man, the characters don't. notice that it's a woman in a man's clo.

in man's clothes. So we're meant to. believe that these these characters. don't even like not one Ripley doesn't. say why is why is she wearing a why is. she wearing a suit? This is set in the. 60s by the way. So, I think if they. wanted to change the novel and create a. kind of, you know, like one of those. Butch Dikes of the day who used to go. for sort of like um or just like Ellen. >> Yeah. Or Yeah. Or the androgynous like. those those people have always existed. Why not change the character to make it. a female character who who likes likes. looking like a man. Why not do that? Why.

tell us you No, this is a man. You have. to believe it's a man. >> Do you see what I mean? Like it throws. you out of the. >> It's crazy. >> I no longer believe in this. I had to. stop watching it because I no longer. believed in it. >> Well, I think the problem the real. problem with trying to shove that down. people's throats is it creates the. opposite reaction, >> right? >> It creates homophobia, transphobia, and. racism because like it doesn't create. it, but it makes them feel like they. have a point. >> Well, you've seen recently that the.

polls regarding gay rights in the US. seem to be going down tumbly. Support. for gay rights, support for gay. marriage. We've had, I think, a number. of states trying to overturn the the gay. marriage legislation. And the reason for. all of that, I think, is because g being. gay has been tied to this LGBTQIA. identity obsessed movement that has also. involved the medicalization of kids, sterilization of kids, twerking in front. of children, all of that stuff. And now. people are saying, "This is because you.

gave us gay marriage. This is because. you let the gays marry. And because of. that, you've allowed all this other. stuff. you've opened this box and. everything else has tumbled out. And. that's not true. That's not true because. the fundamental point about the uh about. the belief in gender identity is it is. fundamentally anti-gay as a principle. Right. >> Right. Because what it says is, you. know, I know I'm telling you something. you already know, but like gay gay. rights was predicated on the idea that. there's a minority of people in every. society who are attracted innately to. their own biological sex. If you say. biological sex doesn't matter and.

actually you've you've you're attracted. to a kind of gendered soul. You're. attracted to an essence. You're. attracted to how someone identifies. Well, firstly, you don't know gay. people. If you think that's the case, they're not they're not attracted to how. you see yourself, >> right? >> They [laughter]. they know gay men, I don't want to be. crude, know what a penis is, right? And. and and they know how to sniff one out. Now, I and I think [laughter]. >> this idea this idea that that they're. attracted to the way that you perceive. yourself, >> nonsense. And not only that, then you. get, you know, like in Australia at the. moment, lesbians are not allowed to.

gather legally if there's a man who says. he's a lesbian and wants to join them. That is against the law in Australia. now. So you can't do that. >> Wait, wait a minute. What do you mean? >> So uh the Australian Human Rights. Commission ruled that if you are if you. have an all female event, right? So like. a lesbian gathering, maybe something. like that. >> Um you have to include men who identify. as women. >> Oh god. >> Because otherwise you are discriminated. Um, there was a woman who I interviewed. on a I had a show in the UK on GB News. up until recently and I interviewed this. woman called Sal Grover and she's an.

Australian woman used to write for. Hollywood I think. Um, she created a. woman's app, women's only app and this. was in the wake of me too, you know, so. there's all that going on and she wanted. to create a space for women and a guy. called Roxan Tickle, right? They always. have these kind of stripper names. >> Is that a real name? >> Roxan Tickle wanted to get on the app. which was called Giggle. So, by the way, this court case is called Giggle versus. Tickle. I I'm not kidding, >> boy. [laughter]. >> And he said, I he got on the app. She. kicked him off cuz it's a it's a bloke.

in a dress. >> And um he sued and won. >> And in the court case, the judge. actually said uh sex is changeable. >> Well, it's not no matter what a a a guy. in a wig says. Um, but she's now. appealing and going through all all this. stuff just. >> makes her life hell and then it. discourages anybody else in the future. from ever contesting anything like that. >> And and you know, not only that, I mean, we've just had the other day, was it. yesterday, um, did you see the uh the. girl who was used to identify as trans a.

girl called Fox Varian has just won 2. million in a lawsuit. >> Yes. >> That's big because. >> she was 16 years old and they chopped. her breasts off, >> which is [ __ ] horrifying. It's the. tip of the iceberg though. >> Especially if you you have children, you. you realize like they change their the. way they think about things year to. year. They and if you children are so. malleable. >> It's like one of the delicate dances of. being a parent is that you have to love.

them, but you don't want to steer them. in any direction. You want to let them. be their own person, >> right? And you know, it's like you I. tried to expose my children to a bunch. of different things and find out what. they enjoy. And what if you do that, you. find out that they're all different. They all like different stuff. They just. gravitate towards different things. And. if you are a doineering, overbearing, mentally ill parent, you can convince. your child almost anything. Almost.

anything. I mean, this is how you get. suicide bombers. >> This is this is what it is. because. they're children. This is why you don't. get 55year-old union guys who become. suicide bombers. They're like, "What?". >> And of course, you know, >> I get 72 virgins. What? Like, it's not. going to work. But you can. [clears throat] get young, impressionable children and you can. convince them of almost anything. Like. convincing them that they're actually a. woman in a man's body and don't you want. to be a woman and let's get you on. hormone blockers. Okay, mom. And then.

all of a sudden, you're ruining this. child's life. But also, I mean, there. will be kids who are struggling with how. they see themselves in the world. There's girls in particular who, >> you know, they're developing into women. and they don't like the sexual attention. they're getting. They'd love to. >> Shrier's book, >> right? So, >> especially autistic girls. >> So, what Well, that's another point. So. this is the other this is the other. reason [clears throat] why I think the. movement is essentially anti-gay because. you know the Tavveristo pediatric. pediatric clinic in London which was an. NHS gender clinic which has been closed.

as a result of the CAST review this. report into pediatric gender care. >> they found uh um there's a book by. Hannah Barnes called time to think which. found that between 80 and 90% of all. adolescence referred to that clinic were. samesex attracted so they were either. gay or lesbian or bisexual. >> now that means you've effectively got. gay conversion converion therapy going. on on the on the NHS, >> right? >> And so, you know, I had, you know, I'm. friends with um couple of lesbians who. run the LGB alliance in London. They. have an annual conference for gay. rights. And they're talking about gay.

rights. You know, these young non. non-binary identified people broke in, unleashed uh locusts and um crickets and. insects, a plague of [ __ ] locusts. into a gay [clears throat] rights. conference. Isn't that the sort of thing. neo-Nazis used to do? >> Right. So I I mean I I you know I I I. think you need to have sympathy with. with with people and whatever they're. going through, but don't tell a child if. a child tells you I think I'm in the. wrong body. Don't say yes. Say that's. not possible. Human beings can't change. sex. But let's explore.

psychotherrapeutically what needs to. happen. >> Well, let's look at Los Angeles, which. is in my opinion one of the most. mentally ill spots in this country. It's. a very weird place. >> That's why you left. >> Well, I mean I left for a bunch of. reasons. Uh mostly I really left cuz. they were telling us we can't do comedy. >> Oh yeah. Well that. >> they closed down the comedy clubs and. Texas was open. So the primary reason. and also restaurants and everything. I. just knew where it was going. But the. point is like Los Angeles is a very. mentally ill place. Like. if you just.

>> looked at like the just the sheer. numbers of people that are medicated and. [ __ ] up. Like if that's the place. that's dictating the tone for the rest. of the world. Yeah. That's dangerous cuz. these are a lot of people that just. desperately want attention. They. desperately want to get accepted. They. have to go through the audition process. So, they have to change who they are to. talk to the producers to try to form. themselves into something to be. accepted. >> There's a disproportionate amount of. trans kids that are involved in.

Hollywood families. It's a largely dis. disproportionate course. Some of them. have two trans kids, three trans kids. It's like, what the [ __ ] is going on. here? This is not normal. This is not. this is not influence whatsoever. This. is you're using that child as a virtue. flag. You're flying that child as a. trans flag in the front of your porch. I. have a trans kid. >> But don't you think that that like a. lawsuit like this? >> Yeah. >> That's going to change things cuz no. one's going to ensure that kind of. procedure anymore. No one's like that's.

a surgeon and a psychotherapist who are. now lumbered with a $2 million bill. >> Yes. It's going to open up the floodgates for. all these other lawyers to start. pouncing on all these other cases. The. thing about the the horrible thing about. these cases is not just that these. children have have their lives ruined by. these surgeries and have been. sterilized. And it's also that they've. been attacked so ruthlessly. You mean. you're talking about children that have. made a mistake or someone coerced them.

into making this mistake that's changed. their body for the rest of their life. and they're getting attacked online. >> Like imagine being a fragile child. already who's willing to go through this. procedure, can't believe they did it. Now they don't have breasts anymore. Their voice is deep forever. They're all. [ __ ] up and then people are screaming. at them online. >> Yeah. And it's crazy. But you know this. is how the the satanic child abuse um. panic of the 80s. >> Yes. Exactly. >> This came to an end because of lawsuits. when you know when they started when. they realized that these.

psychotherapists have been using these. leading questions effectively telling. them you've repressed the memory. You. know, there was that book, The Courage. to Heal, where it said, "If you think. you might have been abused, you probably. were." Like such a reckless thing to. say, >> right? >> And and all these people accused, you know, carers, parents, none of it. was true. And but when they started. suing the uh the uh psychotherapists, it. all collapsed, right? And I wonder. whether uh hysteria can collapse if you.

actually money talks. >> already shifted in this general. direction because of Elon buying. Twitter. When Elon bought Twitter, the. amount of transidentified kids started. to drop off. The amount of non-binary. identified kids started to drop off, right? >> And that I think is a direct result of. people being able to say what they. really think. Because in the past, like. my friend Megan Murphy, she was banned. off of Twitter until Elon bought it. because she said, "A man is never a. woman." That's all she said, right? A. man is never a woman. She was arguing. with people about biological males who.

identify as women being able to get into. women's spaces and she said, "A man is. never a woman." Banned forever. So, no. one wanted to talk about the See, there. was no real discourse. And if there's no. real discourse, then you can push a. goofy ideology pretty [ __ ] far. But. as soon as people jump on board and. start posting funny memes and and Elon. says it's open season, do whatever you. want. And he calls it the woke mind. virus and everybody's like piling in. Well, then you have discourse and then. anything that's absurd immediately gets.

shot down because people say, "No, this. doesn't make any sense. This is crazy.". You know, >> it comes back to what you said. You said. about debate. You said about discourse. Unless you I mean I just saw today just. on you know obviously on Twitter cuz I'm. always on it but I saw John Lithggo you. know the actor brilliant actor. >> who plays Dumbledore in the new Harry. Potter thing saying that JK Rowling's. views are inexplicable inexplicable it. means you haven't read them like JK. Rowling is is for women's rights and she. recognizes that women's rights depend on.

the recognition of biological sex for. the preservation of single sex spaces. It's as simple as that. All he has to do. is read the essay she wrote on her blog. like about eight years ago. He can't. even he's not even sufficiently. intellectual cur intellectually curious. to do that and he goes out and says it's. inexplicable. Women's rights and gay. rights are inexplicable really. Or are. you just not having the conversation? You're just shutting yourself up and. saying my friends have said she's evil. >> Criticized hard enough but would be. criticized if he supported JK Rawlings. If he supported JK Rawlings he would be.

attacked. >> So it's a calculation you're saying? >> Yes. Maybe it's the same thing we're. talking about with Hollywood being. mentally ill. It's the same thing where. you have to shape your opinions based on. how you'll be accepted by the group. It's the most group think place I've. ever been in my life there. It's almost. universally left-leaning. >> But isn't that the problem in comedy? Like with the UK, so many people who. would otherwise be innovative, subversive comics, they've got nowhere. to go. So they just tailor their. material. >> They come to Austin, baby. >> They come to Austin like I did, right?

[laughter] That's it. They come to they. come to like I I I and I I get so sick. of it because I know in America it's. much better but in the UK. >> all of like my old friends from the. comedy circuit who tell me no one's. self-censoring. You can say what you. want. No, I'm like are you kidding? Like. the list of people I know who have had. shows canled, taken off uh because they. caused offense. Uh this week Leo Kur. friend of mine had one of his shows on. his tour just deleted because some. activist complained to the venue. Right. Yeah. So, it's happening all the time. and they're ignoring this Himalayan.

mountain of evidence and they're saying. it's not a thing. But of course, people. are selfensoring. >> What's even happening here is Michael. Rapaort got his shows uh he got his. shows canled from Cap City Comedy Club, which is our other comedy club in town, which is a great club owned by Helium, but they were saying that he's racist. because Michael Rapaort is very. pro-Israel, right? >> And uh apparently, >> why does that make you racist? I don't. know what he said, so I don't want to. speak out of turn. I don't know what.

exactly he said. >> Make a small correction, I think. >> Oh, >> uh, I don't think that she has. [clears throat] been uh, sorry, back to. the Odyssey thing. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, >> she has been uh, cast in the movie, but. only Twitter rumors have said what her. position in the movie is, and that. everybody has ran with it. >> Oh, interesting. So, she could be. anything, >> someone else, a different character. All. the articles I found online said it was. like social media confirmation and then. people were just running. >> Well, there we go. >> Well, isn't that what I said? >> What is that article that you just.

clicked? >> This is the one I showed earlier. >> What is it from? >> Starts off with a Hungarian. conservative. [laughter]. >> That's a niche. >> Jamie, how dare you let that sneak by. that? You didn't notice it was a. Hungarian conservative. >> Are you being paid by the Hungarian. conservative? >> The top thing that popped up. It's the. >> Meanwhile, it's probably a [ __ ] troll. farm in Pakistan that's creating that. It's or it's probably in China or. something. >> All I Googled was Helen Troy Odyssey. movie and the very first. >> good for the Hungarian conservative. getting out coming out on top of the.

Google search. That's pretty good. >> That's so funny. >> But I did I not say I'm not sure about. this. It's a Twitter rumor. >> Look, Elon Musk bought into it. Elon. Musk Christopher Nolan has lost his. integrity. So Elon the dude's too busy. be building rockets to pay attention to. what he tweets. >> But this proves the point. Like let's. not Oh yeah, he's going to take us to. the moon again. You know that's. >> No, he's not, >> isn't he? >> No, Artemis is NASA. >> I thought he was working with NASA. >> Oh, is he working with NASA with Artemis. >> again? Someone said it online and I just. bought it. I just.

>> Oh, wow. He probably They probably can't. get there without him. >> But that's. >> He's probably like, "Oh, show you some. things.". >> But that's okay. So, that is a perfect. example because I am always now as a. even when I mentioned that earlier, I. was cautious, wasn't I? Because I know. I've I've fallen for this so many times. I now double check and triple check. >> everything. And I wish I didn't have to, but you do have to because even the. mainstream media lie about stuff. >> and then and then Twitter rumors go. absolutely mad. >> Well, it's it's important when you're. talking about a historical film. >> Yeah. Yeah.

>> Like it's got to kind of you just can't. do that. It doesn't make any sense. >> Well, you sort of can. Like I think an. artist should be able to do what they. want. And I think if you want to like. they do it with Shakespeare all the. time. Sorry to go Shakespeare, but I you. rarely go and see a Shakespeare play. today that hasn't been filtered through. the prism of identity politics and. changed in But that's not the same. That's not the same as historical. figures. >> Uh well, he wrote histories. He wrote. about kings, Henry VIIth, Henry V. >> That's fiction, right? Like the the.

thing about the Odyssey is definitely. fiction. >> It is sort of, but you know, they didn't. think Troy existed and then they found. out it does, >> right? It's based on myth and Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. But you remember like. they thought that Troy was a completely. mythological creation. >> So it's an actual they have they have. evidence that it was a place. >> Yes. You didn't know that? >> No. >> Yeah. They found it. When did they find. Troy? >> It was in the 20th century.

>> Um so for the longest time, >> but there wouldn't have been sirens and. there wouldn't have been uh cyclopses. and there wouldn't have you know what I. mean? Like. >> Oh no. Oh Joe. >> No. Cyclopses [laughter] they think were. actually elephant skulls. That's what. they think that was. >> Okay. >> Do you ever see an elephant skull? I. have never seen an element. >> Well, you know, where the trunk is is an. enormous hole and they thought that that. was an eyeball. So, they would find. these giant skulls with that looked. like, you know, they didn't know what. the [ __ ] it was. Like, oh my god, cyclopses are real. >> Fair enough. I mean, I. >> So, here evidence alleging was a real.

place began to emerge in the 1870s. Henrik Schlleman uh discovered. large-scale excavations at the Hisarlic. uh in northwestern Turkey in 1870. So. when did they first uh start excavating? >> So where is it? It's in Turkey. >> It's in Turkey. Yeah. Which is which is. a lot of the proponents of a uh a. revising of the beginning of. civilization are now pointing to Turkey.

Yeah. as opposed to uh like Iraq and you. know. >> well the Greeks were everywhere you know. so the Mesopotamians and the I mean that. that doesn't surprise me I mean I I. think the re the point I was making. about Helen of Troy is that even if it's. not real even if it's not history the. myth of Helen of Troy means something. quite significant within that story. Yes. >> So if you subvert that right. >> the the the fundamental aspects of the. story itself doesn't work and you can't. buy into the myth. >> It's like if you turn the elephant man. into a handsome fellow with a six-pack. >> Exactly that. And they're always.

>> don't give them ideas. Don't give them. ideas. They'll do that. >> Um, can you show me a photograph of an. elephant skull? >> It's really kooky, but you see an. elephant skull and you go like, "Oh, I. think that's why they saw it.". >> I could totally see you've fallen for. that. You You look at it and you go, "What the [ __ ] is that thing?" Like, look at an elephant skull. Isn't it. nutty? >> Oh, completely. Yes. And it's going to. be a big old beast, right? >> So, you're going to think it's a. >> big giant thing with tusks coming out of. its mouth. Like, look what the look at. the actual cyclops on the left. >> Ain't that crazy? Yeah, >> of course.

>> No, it makes sense. Makes complete. sense. >> Complete sense. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. You found that, you're like, "Oh. my god, Cyclopses are real." You would. think, "Oh my god, these monsters.". [laughter]. Isn't. >> that funny? What a weird shaped skull. So strange. >> You'd never think the eyeballs would be. down there by the cheekbones. That's. what's weird about them. >> I have to say elephant anatomy is. something I'm not I haven't brushed up. on that. >> Show the photo again. Look at that photo. where the eyeballs are. The eyeballs are. where the cheekbones are. See? See the. little circular holes where the cheeks. are? Now, when you see an elephant in.

the flesh, like show me a photograph of. an elephant. [snorts]. >> Just a elephant. >> So, see where their eyeballs are? Isn't. that crazy? >> Yeah. That's not how you think of them, is it? >> No. Well, they're so strange. Like, give. me that the second one on the left. Yeah. Look at that. Click on that. What. a wild animal. They're amazing. Have you. never seen one of those before? You'd be. like, >> I mean, in a zoo. Crazy. >> I rode one in Thailand. >> No. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't.

recommend it. I don't think you should. ride them. My whole family wanted to do. it. I didn't want to do it. I felt like. it's exploiting them. But they're very. sweet. >> They're gentle, aren't they? But then. they're pleasant creatures. >> It's a whole process. So, one of the. things you do when you go to Thailand is. you uh take care of them first before. you. You don't just hop on them. You. feed them. So, you give them a bunch of. sugar cane and you pet them and they. teach you to like so that the animal. understands you have a gentle spirit. But that it's intelligence, right? It's. because they're smart. >> They're very smart. Also, they'll. [ __ ] kill you. >> Oh, they are scary beasts.

>> Stomp you. >> But they're not like the hippo. The. hippo will kill you. >> You cannot do that with a hippo. >> So, and and I believe the reason why. hippos are so dangerous. We think. they're really cute and fat, but they. are [ __ ] dangerous and they can run. fast and they can tear you apart and. they will. But the the the key. difference, I believe, is the. intelligent things. Elephants are really. smart and hippos are really stupid. >> Yeah. And you can also become friends. with an elephant. Yes. Like you can. actually take care of an elephant and be. kind to an elephant and that elephant. will like be gentle. Yeah. They come up. to you and so you feed them sugarce and.

you talk to them. You say, "Hey buddy, how are you?" And you pet them and you. wash them. You wash them. You do all. kinds of different things with them. You. brush them so it feels good for them. >> You're going to have an elephant soon, aren't you? You're going to. >> No, I would never have an elephant. I'd. be friends with an elf, but he'd have to. be wild. Like I just don't agree with. any of that. >> Well, having them in zoos and things. >> No, I hate it. I think I do as well. I. think if you're going to have animals, you should have a gigantic area that is. a true ecosystem that they exist in. naturally and then [clears throat]. people can maybe venture into that.

ecosystem and explore it. >> I felt that. I was at the zoo recently. in Arizona and I felt that. So. depressing. I felt there was one jaguar. pacing obsessively. I thought I just. felt this we're just like it's like. going to you know like in the Elizabeth. and era they used to go to bedum to. watch the people who were mad. >> as an entertainment thing. It felt a. little bit like we were doing that. Like. >> I have far too much appreciation for the. wild. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, I have animals that are. contained at my house, >> but they have been watered down by. selective breeding to the point where. they can't even like I have a a King.

Charles Spaniel. He's this tiny little. fella. Like he's incapable of doing. anything. Like he's just a little cutie. pie. >> You can't unleash him into the wild, >> right? And I have a golden retriever who. [laughter] thinks everybody's his best. friend. Like. >> did you see the guy who kept a hippo. from birth and then it ate him? It ate. him. >> So, you know, like. >> got annoyed understand that you're. dealing with a a creature that doesn't. see the world that you do, you know. >> Yeah. There's a lot of animals that you. can breed up until you can rather uh. have them in your home. Like chimps.

famously. >> Yeah. >> Up until a certain point and then they. decide, I want to rip your face off. I. don't like you anymore. >> Oh, I'm sure. Oh, if cats were as big as. we are, they'd probably do the same. >> Well, they would just eat you. They. would kill you 100%. The only reason why. we have a relationship with cats is cuz. they're too small to eat us. That's it. >> Cats are great cuz they're convenient. They do what they want. >> They're sweet. >> They're sweet. >> I love cats. But I mean, you can't have. a [ __ ] giant one. But you can if you. take care of them from the time that. they're cubs. Yeah. >> And most of the time they don't kill. you. >> Yeah. >> But then you get a little Sig Freed and.

Roy action and it just decides for. whatever reason I'm going to drag that. dude away with his neck. >> Yep. But you know these these sorts of. pleasures you know life with animals and. this sort of thing is going to matter. more and more to us I think when the. robots take over and the [laughter]. >> well we might have to live with them. We. might be wild and the robots might take. over the cities. We might be forced to. be nomadic tribes again. >> I think they might have no impact. whatsoever on the environment. You can. only live as assistance lifestyle as a. hunter gatherer with primitive tools.

when the the robots would no longer. allow you. You can hunt, but you have to. make your own bows and arrows. Like, what? I can't possibly do that. >> So, they're going to see us as pets is. what you think. They're gonna see us. >> They're gonna treat us the way I want to. treat elephants. So, I want elephants to. exist in a contained ecosystem where. they they live naturally, and they're. going to say, "You can't have cars. anymore. You can't have any of these. things.". >> Well, that's a good point though, isn't. it? All the stuff I've been reading at. the moment about AI is saying that AI. won't wipe us out because it will see us. in the way we see animals and way we see.

pets is that we we think you're sweet. and stupid but we'll we like having you. around. We'll tolerate you. Is that the. way it's going to go that way? >> I think we're going to be forced to. integrate and I think in what way. integrate technologically like I think. we already are. Like Elon's famously. made the point that you're already a. cyborg. you you have your phone that you. just carry around with you everywhere. and then with neural link it'll be. inside your body and then whatever. >> I wouldn't I'm not letting that happen. >> you won't in the beginning the first. iterations a lot of people won't but if.

it makes your life measurably better and. it's a simple procedure that's. non-invasive you know it's like a simple. thing that they plug in to your the back. >> I'd be like a cyborg warrior is that. what you're saying I'd have like. >> well you would probably be connected to. artificial intelligence And it would. greatly enhance your cognitive function, >> okay? >> And greatly enhance your access to. information. It would be instantaneous. You would no longer have to read. You. would just have all the information. It. would just completely change the way you. store information because you would.

probably have some sort of an external. hard drive that connects to you. It. would be something where your memory is. no longer fallible, but it's now. infallible. Okay? >> It's going to be a perfect 4K memory or. 8K memory. You're going to be able to. rewind. I mean, wasn't that an episode. of Dark Mirror where they rewind their. memories? >> Interesting twist in this AI space. Uh, remember you sent me that thing that was. going around this week. So, >> Oh, did you see this weekend? >> Yeah. Yeah, this what we're talking. about. >> So, this is a new twist on it. Uh, I. think if this is real cuz grain of salt.

could be [ __ ] I'll just say that. >> Like the Odyssey thing. >> Yeah. But if this is real, these bots. have made a website where they where the. other bots can rent a human to do tasks. that the bots cannot physically do. >> Well, that's slavery. No, renting. It's. a It's like jobs. It's like you're. renting a human being. >> A human has put themselves on this. website. >> Oh, humans put themselves on it. >> for abilities to do whatever they want. And the. >> It's like gig economy. >> Yeah. Get paid your way. Robot [snorts]. bosses. >> Is this the thing where.

>> the stuff that they need done. >> The robots are inventing their own. language that we can't read. It's on. this website, right? >> Meet [snorts] space task. >> Yeah. I don't That's again whether or. not someone could have made this site to. try to go viral. I'll just go with a. grain of salt with that. Yeah. But they. might not have in the. >> space. >> Rent ah human.ai is fun. >> That's fun. Well, you know the So the. other thing is real though, right? The. AI chat room where these AI agents have. joined and now it's. >> yes and no.

>> Yes and no. What you mean? >> Some of it they are creating a space, but I've already seen places where. people are taking advantage of it for. viral viral reasons. For instance, uh. let's just assume it's real. There was a. like a poly market um bet that some oh. [ __ ] what was it? Someone one of these. bots would sue. >> and so someone actually just like went. ahead and filed a lawsuit on behalf of. their bot and made it look like the bot. did the thing. >> Oh, so they could win the market bet. >> Yeah, exactly. >> How regulated is that poly market stuff?

Cuz it seems like you could get away. with a lot. >> It depends how much money is available. As far as I know, it's just like if I. put up 20 bucks for a bet now, there's. only 20 bucks in the market. So that's. that's all that exists. and more people. have to back it up to make more money. involved. >> Right. But if you have something where. you have inside knowledge of it, is. there any regulation? >> There's supposed to be like there's. supposed to be rules on the bets. If I. create one of those rules, you're. supposed I think there's like caveats. You can't have knowledge of it in or. like that can cancel the bet or I think. if they find out later. I don't.

>> do you go to jail like what happens? >> I don't know. Jail. You probably just. have to lose back the bet or you. probably go to like a civil lawsuit or. something like that. I don't know about. I don't know if it's in law. You know, the UFC is plagued with this issue. They. actually cancelled a fight recently. because there was suspicious betting. And so there's been one fight some So. here's the story, >> okay? >> One guy apparently was injured and his. teammates knew he was injured and so. everyone started placing a bet for him.

to lose in the first round, right? Because he apparently had a bad knee. injury. And so he knew that he couldn't. fight. And so the the idea was, let's. make a lot of money betting on me cuz he. was the favorite. He would go in there. or betting against me. And so he would. go in there and throw a kick, fall down. injured, get beat up, they'd stop the. fight, and then all these people that. knew he was injured make a ton of money. >> And he was in on it. Like he told them. that. >> allegedly. Okay, I I just want to say.

allegedly, but it's enough so that the. the team was removed from the UFC. roster. like if you are competing for. that team, you no longer can fight in. the UFC. You have to find a new gym, right? The coach was no longer allowed. to coach. The fighter was banned. And so. then the FBI got involved and they said, "Well, there's a bunch of different. fights that are suspicious." So then a. bunch of fighters came out and said, "Hey, somebody offered me $70,000 to. lose." And I said, "No." Yeah. >> And so then there was a fight recently. between Michael Johnson and Alexander.

Hernandez, which is a fight I was really. looking forward to that was canceled. last minute. And I was like, "What's. going on?" They said, "Suspicious. betting activity." And so someone was. saying that Alexander Hernandez was. injured and a bunch of money came in on. him to lose. He was actually the. favorite going into the fight. >> and that therefore rigged it. >> Nope. Didn't rig it because the FBI uh. was informed. I believe they were. informed, but the UFC was informed and. the UFC pulled the fight. So, >> they said because of this suspicious. betting activity, um because a lot of.

late late money came in on this one guy. to win, we're going to pull this fight. from the card and not allow this fight. to take place and do a thorough. investigation because something seems. wrong because of the previous fight that. they know was fixed. >> But fighters have been doing that for. ages, haven't they? I mean, that's a. thing that they've always done. How does. that connect then to the AI [snorts]. element that that this website? >> Well, we were we were talking about. betting. We were talking about poly. market. We weren't talking about AI. Yeah. Yeah. We were talking about poly.

market bets and whether or not it's. legal to have inside information. >> But they I mean I know that. >> poly market privileged users made. millions betting on war strikes and. diplomatic strategy. What did they know. beforehand? Privileged users, right? So. imagine if you're someone who's an aid. to the Pentagon, you know, you're you're. working there and you know that we are. going to bomb Iran and then there's a. polyarket thing about it. No one else. knows. Okay. Okay. Yes. You know. >> that I mean that's been going on forever. though, hasn't it? People have always. done that. They've always manipulated.

That's a plot in pulp fiction, isn't it? Where Bruce Willis's character bets on. something he knows he's going. He loses. the fight. He throws a fight. >> so that he can make the money off. You. know, it's that kind of thing. >> Yeah. Yeah. That's always gone on. But. this poly market thing is new because. you can kind of There's Khi and then. there's uh DraftKings has it now. >> It's not actually gambling is the. difference here. You're speculating. >> Yeah. you're not taking money from the. book or the house or whatever you're. betting against each other, >> right? So, it's. >> But the fact that they know about it and. they know it's happening, that means.

they'll be able to crack down on it. >> But I don't know because there's a lot. of there's there's so many options and. possibilities like unless you make a. gigantic score and people start getting. suspicious if you're not greedy about it. and you kind of sneak around a little. bit here, a little bit there, I bet you. could probably make a lot of money doing. that. But do you think fighters and. people like that and sports people. generally, I mean, they're too proud, aren't they, to let let something like. that go just in case, just for money? >> No. >> No, >> no, that's not true. Depends on how much. money they're making. Look, if you're. Anthony Joshua, I'd say, yeah, you're.

not going to do that. You're very. wealthy. >> But if you're a guy who's on the. undercard and you're only getting. $10,000 to fight, but someone's giving. you $100,000 to lose. >> Yeah. Okay. >> And you say, "Okay, I'm just going to. box shitty tonight." Guys have done that. forever. >> Yeah, I guess so. I just. >> don't knock this guy out. Whatever you. do, carry him or carry him to the 10th. round. Yeah. You know, there's a lot of. that going on where they say, "I have a. bet that you're going to knock him out. in the 10th round, so knock him out in. the 10th round only.". >> I don't think you'll ever be able to. stop that. >> No. >> If that's going to happen.

>> No, I don't think so either. I mean, that's that's gone on forever. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But isn't fighting like a kind of. vocation, like a creative vocation for a. lot of people? >> Well, it is creative, believe it or not. Um because movement is creative. Yeah. You know, when you're fighting, you're. not just running at each other in char. Some guys do, but the really good guys. don't just run at each other in charge. Yeah. There's faints and deception. There's movement. There's certain things. that they're doing where they're reading. your movement and trying to guide you in. a particular direction and set you up.

>> Like boxers, boxers call it setting. traps. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> It's like playing a You got a bluff. >> Yes. >> Yeah. Absolutely. >> Yeah. There's a lot of fainting involved. in in fighting. There's a lot of like. fake movement to get you to react and. then they kick you when you settle in. You know, there's it's it's really. creative, you know, which is why like. >> was it Fay Dunaway? No, it was it who. was it that said, you know, that the. older woman that said and talked about. the arts and I don't mean mixed martial. arts. God, who was it? >> Well, like a kind of snobbish thing.

about. >> Glen Close. >> No, it wasn't her. It was the lady from. >> Bridges of Madison County. Who was that? That's uh Meryill Street. >> Merryill Street. That's who it was. Yeah, Meryill Streep said that. It's. like it got it pissed off so many. martial arts people. >> Why? That Mel Street doesn't like not. talking about mixed martial arts. Like. [laughter]. >> who thought you were? Yeah. >> Who thought you were Merrill? That's. crazy. But. >> I know she's pretty versatile. She can. do. >> But also, even though it's violent, you.

you think it's not art you just because. you don't understand it. If you. understood it, it's it is art and is in. fact like a beautiful some performances. are beautiful. >> Well, it's choreography, right? Yeah. In. a way. >> Well, it's not choreography at all. It's. it's ad living in the moment. I mean, there's preconceived. motions that you have that you're hoping. that if the guy does this, you're going. to do that. And sometimes it works out. Yeah. But it's like the poetry of. movement of a of a really sublime.

fighter like you know Anderson Silva in. his prime was beautiful to watch. You. know. >> I believe you. I you know my I have very. limited experience of this. I did kung. fu when I was 12 and I stopped because I. got so bruised. >> Oh. >> I got I got so hurt. I was too cowardly. >> But you know people impose their own. standards on other people and their own. ideas of what things are you know from. the outside and you know it's kind of. silly. >> Yeah. Oh, Joe, I was going to tell you. about this Berkeley thing and I almost. we got on track got into elephants. Um,

but I think the [laughter]. it was a natural segue um because. because I think this encapsulates all of. the stuff you were talking about which. is that I was going to this. >> basically Charlie Kirk's tour was meant. to go on Berkeley was the last date and. um Rob Schneider had agreed to do it and. um apparently he'd said to Charlie you. know what's the wor what's the craziest. place you could take me to and he said. Berkeley Berkeley is going to be the. crazy let's do that. So he was already. booked to do it. >> After what happened with Charlie, uh Rob. asked me if I'd come along as well and. we were so we'd be on a panel and I had.

no idea of the extent of the problem, right? So uh and I'm sure you know a lot. more than I do, you know, but I turned. up, we were there, we we turned up and. there were men with guns. We were in, you know, in an SUV under the ground. We. got into this venue and suddenly the. security start showing me footage from. outside and people are it's like a war. zone. People are throwing smoke bombs. They've they're they're trying to crash. through the railings. Some guy gets. beaten up. He's covered in blood because. he was wearing a t-shirt with turning. point written on it. And I'm suddenly.

realizing, you know what, this is a. fantasy world that we're now occupying. We're now occupying a world where the. people outside think the world is this. and what's going on inside is completely. disconnected from it. Yeah. And I. actually found it quite depressing. because when I was sitting on stage. talking to Rob and Peter Begoian and. Frank Turk, these people of completely. different viewpoints, we're just having. a chat outside. They're smashing things. They're screaming. They're saying that. fascists have overrun the university. And I'm thinking. >> just to come back to that point you made. about you know that need to discuss for.

discussion that experience made me think. actually now what's happening is we're. like we're living in two separate worlds. at the same time and we can't see what. we can't see what the other side is what. the what the intentions of the other. side are and I don't know how you. resolve that. I think that's that to me. sort of encapsulated the entire problem. Well, at this point it's going to be. very difficult to resolve and I I. honestly think it's going to take a. generation to work through it. >> But isn't it as simple as people. learning what the word fascist means? For instance, >> just that it's like they they firmly.

believe that they are trying to fight. against something that is going to. destroy democracy in this country which. is conservative values. >> But we had that with the no kings. So. there's a no kings march and I couldn't. figure that out. I was trying to figure. out what what are they? This is an. elected leader. Well, you know, it's all. organized, right? You know, this is all. funded and Okay, it is. So, um, this was. Mike Benz's point when he was talking. about the defunding of US aid and what. they use that money for.

>> NOS's uh get a bunch of money and they. uh fund a bunch of things uh. particularly in other countries where. they're essentially making it look like. there's these on the ground street. protests that are very organic, but it's. not. It's very organized and it's very. funded and the idea is to start chaos. >> So I've seen people get caught out, people who are clearly being paid who. appear at various different. >> It's not just that. It's it's also email. campaigns. It's um indoctrinating people. into this particular ideology by.

supporting universities. So you fund it. in advance. Yeah. So, it's like decades. of and this is uh I'm sure you've seen. um the Russian guy from 1984 or 1985, Yuri Besmanov talking about the. >> Remind me. >> You never seen it? I don't think I've. seen it. >> It's a wonderful video because it shows. you exactly what happened. how they're. going to introduce Marxism and Leninism. into universities and then it'll. indoctrinate children and then those.

children will be poisoned and within one. generation it'll ruin the United. States's entire educational system and. therefore yeah that's the long but you. should watch a little bit of this cuz. it's it's crazy because back then I. remember the 1980s that would be a crazy. idea and no universities are where. people have free thought and discussion. it's very important. >> you know and I was in a very. left-leaning place at the time. I was. living in Boston, you know, and it was. like probably more universities per.

capita than anywhere else in the. country, at least at the time. And it. was a very well- read city. Like the. idea that universities are going to. destroy the way human beings interact. and debate is like preposterous. But. this guy was talking about this back. then that the Soviets had planned this. in advance and that they had essentially. subverted our entire education system. and thereby would those people would. leave those schools indoctrinated and. enter into the workforce with these new. ideas in universal acceptance that these. ideas are correct and then it would in.

turn. you know the butterfly effect. So do you. think that everyone I don't I can't be. sure that it's as conspiratorial as that. because there must been a lot of you. know people who just got on board. >> There's a lot of money involved in doing. this. There's a lot of funds that have. come from China. There's a lot of money. that has been donated to these. universities like find that video. >> weirdly. Okay, I found it. But there's. like a second version on Twitter I've. never seen before. >> An AI moderated one. He's now in a wig. Oh, I recognize him.

>> So listen to what he says. is spent on espionage as such. The other. 85% is a slow process which we call. either ideological subversion or active. measures actively in the language of of. the KGB or psychological warfare. What. it basically means is to change the. perception of reality of every American. to such an extent that despite of the. abundance of information,

no one is able to come to sensible. conclusions in the interests of. defending themselves, their families, their community and their country. It's a great brainwashing uh process. which goes very slow and it's divided in. in four basic stages. Uh the first one being demoralization. It takes from 15 to 20 years to. demoralize a nation. Why that many. years? because this is the minimum.

number of years which requires to. educate one generation of students in. the country of of of your enemy exposed. to the ideology of the enemy. In other. words, Marxism Leninism ideology is. being pumped into the soft heads of of. of at least three generations of. American students without being. challenged or counterbalanced by the. basic values of Americanism, American. patriotism. The result, the result you. can see most of the people who graduated.

in 60s, dropouts or halfbaked. intellectuals are now occupying the. positions of power in the government, civil service, business, mass media, educational system. You are stuck with. them. You cannot get rid of them. They. are contaminated. They are programmed to. think and react to certain stimuli in a. certain pattern. You cannot change their. mind. Even if you if you expose them to. authentic information, even if you prove. that white is white and black is black,

you still cannot change the basic. perception and the logic of behavior. In other words, these people uh uh the. process of demoralization is complete. and irreversible. to get rid society of. these people. You have you need another. 20 or or or 15 years to educate a new. generation of patriotically minded and. and and uh common common sense people. who would be acting in favor and in the.

interests of of the of United States. society. And yet these people who've. been programmed and as you say in place. and who are favorable to an opening with. the Soviet concept, these are the very. people who would be marked for. extermination in this country. >> Most of them. Yes. Simply because the. psychological shock when when they will. see in future what the what the. beautiful society of equality and social. justice means in practice. Obviously. they will revolt. they they they will.

they will be very unhappy, frustrated. people and the Marxist Leninist regime. does not tolerate these people. Uh they. obviously they will join the links of. denters, >> dissident. >> Uh unlike in present United States, there will be no place for descent in in. future Marxist Leninist America. Uh here. you can you can get uh popular like. Daniel Ellburg and filthy rich like Jane. Fonda for being dissident for.

criticizing your Pentagon. In future. these people will be simply squashed. like cockroaches. Nobody is going to pay. them nothing for their beautiful noble. ideas of equality. This they don't. understand and uh it will be a greatest. shock for them. Of course, the. demoralization process in the United. States is basically completed already uh. for the last 25 years. Actually, it's. overfulfilled because demoralization now. reaches such areas where previously not.

even comrade and drop off and and all. his experts would would even dream of. such a tremendous success. Most of it is. done by Americans to Americans thanks to. lack of moral standards. As I mentioned. before, uh exposure to true information. does not matter anymore. A person who. was demoralized. is unable to assess true information, the facts tell nothing to him. Uh, even.

if I shower him with information, with. with authentic proof, with documents, with pictures, even if I take him by force to the. Soviet Union and show him concentration. camp, he will refuse to believe it until. he he's going to receive a kick in the. in his fat bottom. When a military boot. crashes his then he will understand, but. not before that. That's the tragic of. the situation of demoralization. >> Okay, >> pretty [ __ ] accurate. Well, he's. describing the situation as it is at the.

moment, right? >> And he's describing it in 1984. >> However, that doesn't prove that what. he's that intention to create that kind. of chaos that it was uh implemented and. executed in the way that he describes. He's described. >> he's a KGB agent. >> Yeah. But I suppose what I mean by that. is. >> he's talking about a program that they. implemented. >> So they had actual people in. universities planted in universities to. deliberately execute this idea. >> Yeah. And they planned it in advance. This is what he was saying. And he's. saying this before we even realize that. it happened. >> I agree. That's scary.

>> It is scary because it did happen. >> But what but but that doesn't fully. explain why it caught on. Why did. academics who were clearly not plants? Why did they catch on with this? >> Well, they don't live in the [ __ ]. real world. This is the problem with. academics. They go right from. universities to teaching positions. >> I mean this. >> they don't have any real world. experience. >> I mean this whole idea of the long march. through the institutions is there in Rud. Deutschko. It's there. It's it was said. we're going to do this. We're going to. infiltrate the major organizations, institutions, the church. We're going to. uh over a very long period of time uh.

change society for the in the way that. we want to see it. I think what's. happened is I think that intention was. there. I think what he's saying. >> is very eerily describing what's. happening now, the demoralization and. the detachment from truth. But I don't. think it necessarily came about. >> as systematically as that. I think. >> how do you think it came about? I think. well for one thing I think what we're. facing now isn't quite the template that. Marx would have had in mind right. because for one thing uh there's no. emphasis on class or money or the. economy or or anything well in so far as.

Marxism has become about group identity. in terms of the left substitut is a. giant mantra that people [ __ ] in the. streets. >> that's true that's true. >> they're trying to tax billionaires that. people are. >> but it's incoherent because it's from. people who've got money it's from the. upper middle classes to be coherent It's. it's all just something a narrative that. you give the unwashed masses and then. they run with it. >> Well, I wonder whether it caught on. partly through what became fashionable, what became trendy, but also because any.

ideology says to you, you don't have to. do anything anymore. You can outsource. to that to us. We've got a set of rules. and these are the rules that you've got. It's why. >> love that. >> Well, it's why you've got people who are. well, it's why you've got queers for. Palestine. >> You know, that can only exist when. you're following a set of rules and not. thinking about it for two seconds, right? That can a wonderful group. >> that I actually thought that was fake. when I first heard about it, which must. be about 5 years ago. >> You've seen the other meme. >> I I thought it was unreal. >> You seen that for Palestine and then. Palestine for queers? >> Oh, and I imagine they're throwing.

people off. >> Of course they are. Of course they are. I just say go and do go there and see. what you see what you see. See what you. experience. >> Go there as a man in a dress wearing. lipstick with a beard. Good luck. >> Yeah. I just did a Tatana tweet of a. drag queen touring the Middle East and. she's, you know, she's touring all these. venues and and she's got the sort of the. Palestine dress and the sort of the glam. kind of Arabic look. It's like just just. go there and see what happens. But that. that kind of cognitive dissonance can.

only work if you are. >> right. >> if you are uh ideologically driven. And. I think so I I suppose what I mean is I. think the appeal of ideology. is what is what explains not a kind of. we've implant implanted these agents. here they're going to lead to this. they're going to lead to this. It has to. also be complicity. >> Of course that comes from implanting. ideas. take hold and then group think takes it. from there. But isn't it a shame that. universities of all places the place. where you go to be challenged and the. way the place where you go I mean I was.

thinking of that when I was at Berkeley. and I you know I was sitting on the. stage and there's all these men with. guns all around the theater because of. course what happened with Charlie. >> Mhm. >> And I'm thinking it's like the end of. the Blues Brothers you know where you're. on stage and all the people are waiting. in the it felt weird and I thought this. is not this is not what a university is. or should be. And the other thing that I. thought is a lot of those people outside. protesting weren't students. They they'd. sort of come in, they've been busted in. So maybe that feeds into what you were. saying about, you know, this is. >> 100%.

>> How are they getting busted in? Who's. funding them? >> Right. >> People are paying a lot of money to do. that, right? >> And they're doing it all over the. country. >> But they did it during the presidential. elections. During the presidential. elections, they were tracking cell. phones from place to place, and they. realized that there was a group of. people that were paid attendees at Kla. Harris's rallies. >> Oh, yeah. I remember that. And. >> so they were getting paid. Their job was. to show up and cheer for Kla Harris. >> Do you think fundamentally then the. Democrats are anti-democratic?

>> I think fundamentally anybody that. doesn't have organic support is going to. figure out a way in this environment to. drum it up. And if you can do that. through a service or if you can do that. through an NGO or if you can do that. through a company that'll hire people to. show up at your rallies, they do it. because they want to win and they want. to get into a position of power. And one. of the things that we do find with Trump. >> is that it actually turns out the.

president can do a lot. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, and we used to think that they. were kind of handcuffed and they weren't. able to do as much and that's why. nothing ever got done. Turns out that's. that doesn't seem to be true. You got a. maniac in office, you can kind of get. away with a lot of things. You can do a. lot of different things. >> That's what we sort of need in the UK. >> We need someone to come in and strip. away. I mean, >> we need what Bessoff was saying is that. we need to. kind of a whole generation that teaches. that being patriotic and having morals. and ethics is actually a good thing.

Yeah. and that free speech is important. and that to be able to debate ideas is. essential to any sort of true. society that considers itself an. elevated. >> absolutely. >> modern version of what we hoped for when. this country was founded. >> Yeah. >> Right. It wasn't founded on the idea. that it's you have to adhere to one. ideology and this ideology thinks that.

gender is not real and no one can answer. what a woman is. Like that's crazy that. that's become popular. >> Well, we see in America like America is. the kind of life raft of the world that. you've got all these things built into. your political system. >> Yeah. And that's why it's so scary when. you see people, Do you remember the um. vice presidential debate between JD. Vance and Tim Waltz? And Tim Waltz said. that the First Amendment doesn't cover. hate speech. It doesn't cover. misinformation. Exactly. >> Um. >> he's a dangerous [ __ ] That's. >> like that's scary. If the guy who might. be vice president.

>> is saying, "Actually, we're going to. strip out all of this stuff.". >> Also, just the way he behaves is so odd. the way he waves and runs on stage and. it's all just so fake and performative. I don't know any men like that that. aren't dangerous. >> Why was he picked? >> Probably because of the Minnesota stuff. >> It's pro it probably had something to do. with what he was allowing to happen in. Minnesota. They were probably making a. ton of money, >> right? Okay. Maybe. >> the like there's a reason why he had to. resign. I mean, I'm clearly speculating.

I have no idea and I'm a [ __ ] when it. comes to politics. But what I would what. I would assume is that the for sure he. was informed of this fraud long in. advance. >> Right. Right. >> If it wasn't for that Nick Shirley kid. in those videos and apparently Nick. Shirley had been informed by the the GOP. there that this was all going on. So. this gets exposed. It gets into the. public zeitgeist. It becomes a huge news. story. It's not a coincidence that the. riots break out in the exact same place.

where all this fraud is being exposed. because ICE is everywhere. They're all. over the place. It's not the the most. violent interactions are the. interactions that are happening in the. place where the most fraud has been. publicly exposed. >> Yeah. >> It's all This is all by design. >> There's something very scary about. >> Yeah. And so this guy knew about it in. advance. How do we know? Well, one way. we know is because he's resigning. There. must be something, right? There's. something. He's not running for governor. again. He was in the process of running. for governor. He's decided to step out. of public office entirely now. So maybe.

they told him if you do not step out you. were going to be prosecuted. We know. what you did. >> Or maybe he's going to [ __ ] turn. state's evidence. Who [ __ ] knows? >> Imagine if he'd have won him and Kla. Harris if if they would have been in. charge. I mean what God I don't think I. would have come here [laughter]. if Elon doesn't buy Twitter and Kla. Harris wins and Tim Walsh is our vice. president. >> Well, doesn't that just tell you how how. fragile freedom is how how close you. are? >> Very fragile. That's why people support. Donald Trump and the people that think. that they support him because he's a.

racist and all these different things. No, no, no. They support it because it's. an alternative to what we all saw. coming, >> you know? No one's excited that ICE is. killing people in the streets. No one no. one likes that. You have to be [ __ ]. insane. If you think those people should. be just getting shot like that, that's. nuts. >> But what they don't want is what the. government was previously doing. They. had a completely open border. They were. busing people into swing states. They. were trying to pretend that this was all. organic and it's not. Yeah, it's not.

It's It's a They had a plan and they did. it in a sneaky way where they looked. like the really kind, ethical, equitable, and inclusive crowd. >> Right. Well, that's the woke story all. over again. >> Exactly. You know, it was the woke. stories applied to geopolitics. It was. the woke stories applied to the whole. political process in this country was. dependent upon the census, which the. census doesn't count citizens. The. census just counts humans. Yeah. And so. you get more congress congressional. seats, you get more electoral points. The whole thing is nuts.

>> I mean, I like to think that not all. Democrats are into that. That not not. all Democrats are about the power for. its own sake. >> Of course not. But the problem is it's a. party. Like if you work for a. corporation and you're a good person, but the corporation is pro polluting a. river in Guatemala. There's a diffusion. of responsibility because you're a part. of a giant system. And hey, I'm just an. accountant. I go to work and I do my. thing for Exxon or mobile or whatever it. is. Yeah. >> Well, I'd say for however messy all of. this has become in the US, at least you. have had some sort of attempt to strip. out the very stuff that that guy was.

talking about, the fact that the civil. service is all one way, the fact that. the machinery of government, that was. the plan, right? So, the machinery of. government works in a certain way. So, there's no democratic means of getting. rid of it. There's no way to change it. >> Well, I think the counter to that is the. education that the internet provides. And that's where they didn't anticipate. in 1984. So the the education that the. internet provides is untethered. >> But then the internet tells us that. Christopher Nolan has just made a film. with a black Helen of Troy, right? And. he hasn't. >> It all it produces all sorts of.

unsaavory things too. >> Yeah. >> But it also allows the distribution of. information that would be impossible. through normal means. If these people. are, as he said, in control of major. media, which they were, in control of. universities, which they are, and then. it goes on to be the only way people get. information. And now your information is. very heavily filtered and then all that. stuff works. >> But that's why the technocrats in the EU. why ideologues generally are against. internet or they want to censor it. >> That's why Mcronone is trying to stop X.

in. >> did you hear France uh. >> or whoever is trying to stop it. >> So the EU the head of the EU commission. is Ursula Vanderleon. Did you hear her? >> Great name by the way. >> Well yeah it's it's a sexy name right? >> Yeah it's [laughter] hot. >> She's unelected. the the the the. European Commission is an unelected body. that sets the legislative agenda of all. these European countries. Absolutely. crazy. You can't vote them out. She did. a speech last May where she said, and. I'm not joking about this, she said that. um misinformation was like a virus and.

you need to inoculate yourself against. the virus. And the phrase she used is uh. not debunking, pre-bunking. So. pre-bunking is her idea of what you do. with misinformation. What she means is. censorship. >> She But pre-bunking is the most sinister. Crazy. >> Chill it. Like if you were to say, I'm. going to come up with the most Orwellian. sort of dark lord kind of cis. >> pre-bunking. >> Pre-bunking. >> Yeah. That's like [ __ ] Minority. Report, right? >> I don't know. I don't know what the. because I know that there's there's this. free speech debate opening up between.

the US and and the and Europe generally. Like you know when JD Vance came over to. Munich and gave that talk to all the. European leaders and said, "You've got. to stop censoring your people. You got. to stop running away from voters." And. they were shocked. >> and they were horrified. But he was dead. right. >> He's dead right. >> and he should and you know what people. on the left should admit that he's dead. right as well. >> But there's something about Europe right. there's something about like I think. over here coming over here I get the. sense that even if most left-leaning. people as well as right leaning people. do value free speech as a kind of shared.

value and in Europe it's not that. there's a real sense of we can't trust. the masses because I know that the EU is. is seen as this big lefty thing which it. absolutely is not. The EU is a body that. wants to censor its citizens. It's a. body that tells people, you can have a. referendum, but if you get it wrong, we're going to make you vote again. It's. not a democratic organization. So, no. wonder Vance is sort of and Trump is at. loggerheads with this body because. you've got these, we in the UK have a. authoritarian leader, Karma, the prime.

minister. Yeah. >> He couldn't be further away from the. American ideal of free speech. He. introduced this online safety bill which. is basically to this is why a lot of. tweets in the UK if you go over to the. UK now a lot of the tweets will come up. saying this is potentially harmful. content so we're screening it out. Uh he. you know they're trying to get rid of. juries for certain trials. They. >> did get rid of juries. They already did. >> and that's particularly dangerous. because some of those cases are uh for. speech crime. >> Right. So uh I'll give you an example. There was a Royal Marine called Jamie.

Michael who had made a video just say. saying we need to peacefully protest. against the immigration issue. They took. him to court uh for stirring up racial. hatred. Um but the jury is what let him. off. It was the jury that saved him. >> Yeah. >> In this new system, there wouldn't be a. jury there and he would be in prison. >> Yeah. And most certainly would be in. prison. >> So I kind of feel like and we've got K. star now for another three years. Every. decision that he makes is about not. trusting the public, censoring what they. think. He could if he could get rid of.

X, he absolutely would. >> Is it possible that someone sensible. could win in 3 years or is the system so. deeply entwined in the ideology of the. English people that it's just stuck? >> This is what I think about that because. I I look at America and I think in a way. you had your culture war election. because of Trump, right? Yeah. >> You know, I mean a lot of people say the. culture war doesn't matter. Of course it. does. I mean, did you see about that the. the advert that the GOP put out, you. know, Kla Harris is for they them, Trump.

is for you. That was the slogan. >> It was about um the Democrats wanting to. fund transgender surgery for prisoners. >> And Donald Trump's team had this advert, Kl Harris for they them, Donald Trump is. for you. That actuated a 2.7 shift in. favor of Donald Trump among everyone who. saw it. It was a major success. That. just shows that these issues, these. cultural war issues, people do care and. people do vote. But you had a way in. America to vote that stuff out through. Trump, right? >> We we've never had that. We've had.

>> but they barely had a way like they if. they had more time, they wouldn't have. >> You mean that if the Democrats had. >> if the Democrats won this time and then. they tried to do it again in 2028, Elon. was really adamant about that during the. last election. like this might be the. last real election we have if you don't. stop this now because they have an open. border and in the last four years. they've pulled 10 at least 10 million. people into this country. >> and they've changed the electoral map.

and then on top of that there was. >> both uh Schumer and Nancy Pelosi openly. talking about letting these people vote. >> openly talking about giving these people. a path to citizenship and They had. already put them on Medicaid. They had. already put them on social security. They were giving them EBT cards. They. were housing them at the Roosevelt Hotel. in New York City. They were giving them. money and helping them get to these. states, right? >> They were flying them through into.

America and putting them in these places. because they were trying to get voters. >> So, another four years, >> in another four years, they might have. had it completely locked up. >> You know, that's what the Democrats. though have said about the the. Republicans. I mean, Oprah Winfrey was. saying, "This might be the last election. we have. If we don't vote for If we. don't vote for. >> Oprah Winfrey had Donald Trump on her. show years ago asking him to be. president. >> Yeah, they were mates, weren't they? Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. >> Look, they all get captured. They all. get captured by group think and ideology. and they all get captured by money and.

protecting it and who's going to protect. them and. >> but we don't we don't have that safety. valve in the UK. So, like I say, you. were able to for all the imperfections, you were able to vote in an. administration that was actually going. to rip out that that whatever you call. it. >> Show the system is better. It showed the. system is better. Even though the system. was trying to get rigged, >> enough people revolted against it. >> Yes. >> That but look at the ideas that you're. attaching to this administration. Like. look, the ICE stuff is horrific. The the.

people getting shot, it's it's horrific. We all agree to that. There's a lot of. the authoritarian aspects. It's. terrific. But what they've stopped is. all of this illegal immigration, right? They've stopped all the illegal. immigration. Legal immigration is still. available. And then what they've also. done is investigate literally billions. of dollars in fraud and they're. uncovering it over and over and over and. over again. So there was obviously crime. that was going on that was not being. addressed by the previous party. And. this one of the reasons why they didn't.

want the Republicans getting in in the. first place. So they still have to label. them in the most horrific ways possible. Accentuate all the negative aspects of. what's going on with the ICE stuff, but. not talk at all about the economy taking. an uptick. Not talk at all about GDP, not talk at all about tariffs being. effective, not talk at all about any of. the positive things. Stopping wars, he. stopped wars in multiple different. countries. Stop conflicts. There's no. one's talking at all in an objective. sense. It's this is a Nazi party. these.

are fascists. We have to have no kings, stop the fascists. So these narratives. are just being pushed out there. constantly by the media. All the while. these politicians are absolutely. terrified that these investigations are. going to start moving into their states. and uncovering more and more and more. fraud, which they're going to. >> But I mean, I know you say it's so. reckless though, I think, as well for. the Democrats to, like you say, paint. ICE as Nazis. Talk about that this is. the equivalent of the Gestapo. I think.

someone used that phrase. I mean, I know. what you're saying about the shootings. Obviously, we all agree it's absolutely. horrific. Any kind of situation where. police inflict that kind of violence on. someone needs to be thoroughly. investigated and looked into and all the. rest of it, but I'm I'm concerned about. the politicians saying, "No, go there. Get in the way of federal agents while. they're enforcing the law. >> They're just trying to be popular, >> but but but won't they're putting. people's lives at risk, aren't they?" I. mean that that but it's again that that. chess move again giving up the rook or. attacking a rook and giving up your. queen because of it because you just. want the the current.

>> Well, it's it's working in so far as the. like the public is turning against Trump. because of what's happening with ICE. I. mean that's. >> certainly a lot of that. Yeah, there's. certainly a lot of that. The the the. narrative is out there. It's dependent. upon how far it goes. Yeah. Right. They've got to deescalate this violence. Yes. They they've got to make sure that. that but you also need support of local. police. You can't have people attack the. hotels where these ICE people are. staying and have no support whatsoever. by the police. That's crazy. They're. being told to stand down.

>> So, this is messy stuff. And you. >> Yeah. >> But look how hard it I mean you you talk. about how, you know, we Trump has come. in and he stripped away all this stuff. and this fraud and but that was he. didn't do it in the first term. It's. only when he got to the second term and. it was planned and he had Doge set up. and he had Musk in place and all of this. deep state stuff could be identified and. stripped out and worked. >> We had a lot of deep state people in his. cabinet the first term. We didn't know. >> so we couldn't work against it, >> right? >> But we can't in the UK uh just to sort. of explain where I think we are there is.

we can't do that because we we have the. two major parties are both ideologically. in lock step effectively, right? So so I. mean most of the woke stuff was pushed. through the Conservative party. They. were in power for 13 years. Uh they're. ostensibly rightwing. >> They pushed through the woke stuff. >> They pushed through all the gender. self-recognition stuff. >> Why do you think the conservatives did. that? >> So the why is a good question. So the. prime minister Theresa May, conservative. prime minister at the time, she said in. her autobiography, I'm woke and proud. You know, she said like she can you.

imagine Trump saying that? It's the. equivalent. It's the equivalent. So I. think it's because something about this. ideology infected every side of the the. political a particularly in the UK. What. might happen now in the UK is reform are. probably going to win the next election. That's in three years time. And that's. so seismic because it will blow apart. this two-party system that we've got. That probably couldn't happen in. America, right? You probably couldn't. get. >> You have a third party that can win. >> We have a third party that can win. That's new. >> really. >> And that's we haven't had that for a.

long long long long time. But you think. what is the the possibility that it. could win? Do you think it's 5050? >> Look at it this way. We've been sort of. veering massively from, you know, the. conservatives under Boris Johnson won. this mad mad majority like 80 seat. majority and they could do whatever they. want and they squandered it. People were. so resentful of what happened with. Johnson who by the way let in so more. migration than illegal migration than. we've ever had. Right. >> Did he do that for cheap labor? >> Probably. I mean I think that's. certainly part of it. Certainly that's. part of it. That's a that's a problem. that conservatives don't want to admit.

that they were. You know, I had a. conversation with a very prominent. politician who explained to me that he. had a conversation with a guy who was a. CEO of a corporation that didn't want to. stop the flow of illegal immigration. because he wanted cheap labor. And he. was flabbergasted. He was like, I can't. [ __ ] believe this guy's saying this. out loud. >> It's worse with Johnson because in their. manifesto, they pledged not to do it. >> Wow. >> So, they had a promise. They call it the. Boris wave. Like so so so that's how bad. it was and then you have Starmer and the. Labour Party who who are just as bad if.

not worse and you know we we have a. situation where it's it's unmanageable. now and reform this third party Nigel. Faraj's party is saying no we're. actually going to tackle this and of. course ultimately what happens is the. public they reach a tipping point and. they say by the way Starmer is the the. least popular prime minister on any. opinion poll ever in the history of. records. That's he's gone from a massive. majority to nothing. Wow. >> Because he's been so useless on all of. this stuff. Because he's been so. captured by the ideology. Because he.

doesn't care about migration. Because he. said that anyone who was concerned about. the grooming gang scandal was jumping on. a bandwagon of the far right. That's. what he that's what he said. >> Yeah. >> So all of this has happened. But you. can't blame the left. It's the left and. the right. >> It's both of them. It's why they call it. the uni party. It's the same thing. So. you need something else to come along. and uh. >> and so what do you think the possibility. of Farage winning? >> Pretty high, right? So if it were today, he'd win. >> If he didn't get whacked between now and. then. >> Well, [laughter]. >> do you guys whack people over there very.

often? >> Less than here. I think that's more It's. more an American thing. Um but you know, >> it's a lot easier. A lot more guns over. here. >> There's a lot more guns. Uh so but I I. fingers crossed obviously that won't. happen. Um but it looks like if it was. today, he'd win. Uh there's obviously a. couple I mean he could mess things up, something crazy could happen, right? Um. >> get caught with a live boy or a dead. girl or. >> something like that. But I think with. Star people are just sick of it. He's. it's he has continually backtracked on. all his promises. He's not interested. He dismisses people's concerns about.

immigration. He dismisses people. concerned about the mass rape of. children in the grooming gang scandal. that, you know, they had to be dragged. kicking and screaming to do an inquiry. about that. they didn't want to do it, >> you know, and because they're so. terrified of being called racist. ultimately, so they let this thing. slide. >> So, I think people are just sick of it. I think people have reached the point. where even I think people who don't like. Nigel Farage will hold their nose and. vote for a third party to explode the. system and maybe we might be able to. reset after that. Maybe something could.

happen. >> One of the things that's interesting in. America is a lot of young people are. becoming conservative. >> That's that is interesting. Yeah, >> it's interesting because I think that's. a force of the internet and being a. conservative more today is more like. being a rebel. >> Yeah. >> It's like bucking this system whereas it. used to be that if you were a rebel, you. were leftwing. You were like you're a. hippie. >> Yeah. >> You know, and that's not really the case. anymore because the system that has. power is a system that is pushing this. one very particular ideology.

>> that also demonizes young males. >> hugely. Yeah. But that's also why I. don't think it's about left and right. anymore. I I think one of the things. about the culture war is it it kind of. killed off left and right. Like I say, in the UK, we couldn't vote this out. We. had a a right-wing party. It didn't make. a difference. A leftwing party makes it. worse. We had a prime minister, you. know, K Star on radio saying that 99.9%. of men don't have a penis, which means. that there are what is it 35,000 female.

penises out there. It's quite a lot if. you can picture that image, you know. So. that's our prime minister saying this. crazy our deputy prime minister said on. TV that you could grow a cervix. >> if you wanted. Um so that's David Lammy. That sounds like I'm making that up. He. said that. You can check that. He said. you could grow a cervix. So this is. these are the kind of people who are in. charge now who are it's just all about. their fake you know fake ideology. That's. >> which is why internet censorship is so. much more prominent there. >> That's why it's going to happen. Oh.

that's why they're going to absolutely. try to do that. Exactly. Well, they are. doing it just selfcensorship by. arresting people. There's a lot of. censorship involved and scare. >> just in the fear of being arrested. >> But but the problem for reform will be. do they have the guts to do what Trump. did. Do they have the guts to come in. and say, "Look, we need to scrap the. civil service." Well, you can't scrap. the civil service, but you need to sort. of bleed it dry. You need to you need to. give it a good rinse, right? you need to. get rid of the because there have been. whistleblowers in the UK civil service. who have said we're not going to do what. the elected politicians say. If if they.

come in and say there's an an. immigration problem, we're just going to. styy that. We're not going to do what. they want. We've got uh police who are. routinely investigating people for their. opinions. Just to put that into context, by the way, if we're talking about this. deep state that we've got to clean out, our police force is trained by a body. called the College of Policing. They. have been telling police for years, it's. your job to arrest people for what they. think and what they say. And the high. court tw the high court told them,

you've got to stop this. You've got to. stop recording non-rime hate incidents. Two home secretaries said to them, you've got to stop recording non-rime. hate incidents. They ignored the courts. They ignored the government. And that's. the power of an ideologically captured. quango. You know, that's that's the. problem. So even when you even when you. vote for a party that's going to strip. this stuff out, you still have to do the. actual hard work of stripping out. I. would abolish the College of Policing. Do people know about non-rime hate. incidents? Do they do they know that.

this is a thing in America? Do they know. that that's what we do? >> Not really. I mean, people are just. aware that there's a lot of arrest. because of social media posts. We don't. we don't pay nearly as much attention to. the UK as the UK pays attention to. American politics. >> And that's fair enough, you know, because we're a small island. That's. fair enough. But what I would say is. like it's worse than people think in so. far as the 12,000 arrested a year, that's horrific. But with the police. routinely checking up on you if you. commit non-rime, that's sort of even. worse, isn't it?

>> The the Scottish police have a database. of jokes that they've seen online that. they think are problematic. And they've. kept this the Scottish police introduced. a hate crime bill two years ago now. which pro can prosecute you for things. you say in your own house. There's a. section in that bill on the public. performance of a play. So, if a play is. offensive, they can arrest you. If. you're the director or an actor involved. in the play and it's considered. offensive, they can arrest you. >> They set up when they when they. implemented that hate crime bill, they. set up um hate crime reporting centers. So, if you felt offended, you could and. they converted like they there was a sex.

shop. I think there was a mushroom farm. You could go and report hate to the. police uh as and when it occurs. And. this is coming from the the police. force, the people who are supposed to. sustain authority and prevent. criminality. And you've seen the viral. videos of people police coming knocking. on people's doors saying. >> you said this thing online. >> So I think it's worse than just the the. arrest. I think it's a rotten system. that [clears throat] is being trained by. activists in the college of policing.

that no government will deal with. They. don't get rid of these activists. They. let the act and the activists when. they're told to stop it, they carry on. anyway. And in. >> the entire culture has to shift. >> That's what I mean. >> Yeah. >> That's what I mean. You need a. politician to go in and say, "Scrap the. college policing. Uh, strip out all the. activists within the NHS, within the. army, within the police, within the. Crown Prosecution Service. >> It also has to get so bad that people. realize how bad it is and they need. radical change. >> But I think the grooming gangs did that. >> Yeah. I think the fact that we we.

effectively sacrificed thousands of kids. on the altar of ideology, the fact that. we said, you know, the there were. politicians, counselors, uh doctors, social workers saying, "We don't want to. be called racist, so we're going to. ignore the sexual assault of children on. a mass scale.". >> And that was not really thoroughly. covered here in America in mainstream. news, >> I think, because Elon. >> No, online it was, but not in mainstream. news. >> So, do people not generally know about. that? They know about it now, right? Okay.

>> But it wasn't something that you would. see every night on CNN. >> Really, >> it's a huge story. >> But that that the power of uh being. called racist became so intense. I mean, even, you know, that horrible um bombing. at the Manchester Arena at the Ariana. Grande concert in the subsequent report. of what went wrong. One of the security. guards said he saw the perpetrator with. the RXAC and he didn't approach him or. apprehend him because he was afraid of. being called racist. That was the. reason. >> And as a result of that, two dozen. children lost their lives.

>> The power of of of smearing someone as. racist is so potent. Which is why I. think here in America, the word fascist, the word Nazi gets thrown around so much. because they know if someone is so. branded, you disoblage yourself from. having to engage with their ideas, they. become this kind of monster that you. don't have to even think about or worry. about. Right. And we're just I think. we're just getting over that in the UK. now where the accusation of racism no. longer really sticks. I think people. think it doesn't mean anything anymore.

And you know, they've tried with reform. They've tried saying that reform is a. racist party. It's a far-right party. No. one's buying it anymore. And I think. that's why hopefully something can. change. I think the grooming gangs, I. think the mass immigration to the extent. where people now at risk, they just are. uh unvetted people, many with criminal. records. We don't want to go the way of. Sweden. Do I mean, you know how bad Swed. Sweden's got, right? >> You know, Sweden. >> used to be the most high trust society.

in Europe, low crime. They allowed mass. immigration on a scale they couldn't. possibly contain. I think it's now 20%. of Swedish population are now foreign. born and predominantly they live in. ghettos where crime is rife. They didn't. integrate. There was no expectation they. should integrate. And as a result of. that, it's gone from being one of the. safest countries in Europe to being the. the country that is has most gun and. bomb attacks of any country not at war. except for Mexico. And that's happened. in the space of 10 years.

>> Crazy. >> It's a absolutely TR. I remember when it. was going on and a Swedish stand-up. friend of mine, Tobius Pearson, texted. me saying, "There's gun there's grenade. grenades going off in Stockholm. There's. gunfire on my street. There's and the. the the politicians are doing nothing. about it. They're saying this doesn't. matter.". I was in Sweden a couple of years ago. I. was I was talking to a bunch of and they. you know what Swedes are like. They're. very middle class, very well not all of. them obviously but very liberal, >> very like not a racist shred in their. body and they all came back to the same. story. They all wanted to discuss.

immigration and they all come back to. the same thing. One woman said to me, "I. got this wrong. We got this wrong.". >> Why do you think they did it? >> Good intentions first and foremost. >> Really? >> Okay. Well, there's there's a. >> really You think it was just good. intentions to let all those people in? >> Have you met Swedes? You know, But I. mean, but come on. It's happening in. America. It's happening in England. It's. happening in the UK. Yes. It's happening. in Ireland. It's happening. It's just. good intentions everywhere. >> Could it also be Could it also be this. delusion? This idea what you would call, I suppose, liberal universalism. This.

idea that everyone is basically the. same. Everyone in every culture. basically wants the same things. It. explains the queers for Palestine. phenomenon. You know, every it doesn't. matter where you go. >> No, no, no. The Christopher Palestine. phenomenon is explained by the internet. and people being stupid and being in a. bubble where they never experienced. those folks. I don't think that I think. this is organized. >> I think it's organized. I think the more. chaos there is, the more they can crack. down on your rights. >> I know you think it's organized. I'm not. convinced of that yet. >> I'm open to it.

>> It just see I mean it's at one point in. time it's fairly universal in Western. societies now trying to ruin them. >> Yes. in America as well. >> for the last four years before uh Trump. got into office. That's what they were. doing here. It seems like a strategy. It. doesn't seem as simple as just good. intentions. >> I know. Well, and that does seem too. simplistic. I absolutely agree with. that. >> You create more chaos. The more chaos. you have, the more laws you need. >> The more laws you need, the more control. you have. >> But speaking to these people in Sweden, I mean, I was there. It was an event. where we were talking about a book I'd.

written. So, it was all about these. issues. And I was mingling and talking. to them and they all wanted to talk. about it. But they're the citizens. They're the. people that implemented those laws in. the first place. That's where I'm. cynical. I think the people that. implement those laws in the first place, they know what they're doing. >> Yes. And well, certainly they're aware. of the risks. I mean, if you take what. happened in Cologne, that New Year's Eve. party where I think it was over 800. women were sexually assaulted and and. the and the media didn't report it and. the and the and the government wanted to. sort of minimalize it and say that this. wasn't real.

>> It's not even just the risks. It's the. physical actual measurable consequences. Yes, exactly. >> And they're not they're not course. correcting. That to me leads me to think. that they know what they're doing. >> You don't think it could just be. complete naivity this idea? >> I think it's the best way to combat the. internet. The best way to combat the. internet is create a massive amount of. chaos and then crack down on people's. lives. I suppose what worries me about. it is though that that the the. assumption that it's all sort of. coordinated will take you down that that. route where you start thinking as some.

friends of mine now think the world is. controlled by a group of Satanists who. sit in a room and they choose the you. know they choose the leaders and they do. you know what I mean like the. >> well I don't think it's Satanist but I. think it's incredibly wealthy people. >> but why would it be in their interest to. destroy the economy that so sustains. them? Well, it depends on where they are. and who they are. But George Soros. clearly does that and he's talked about. it. He's talked about enjoying. destroying democracies and enjoying. destroying countries. He's kicked. He's. not not allowed to go into certain. countries. He makes money doing it,

>> but he relies on those democratic. societies to make, you know, >> Yeah. but they're still functional. He. just profits off of it largely. >> That's what I struggle with, though. Like, you know, someone who believes in. fundamentally the capitalist dream can't. dream can be. You can it's subject to manipulation. >> Yeah. >> And intelligent evil people or at least. amoral. >> But this doesn't this doesn't answer why. people do vote for it. And they do. I. mean. >> they do vote for it because they've done. a really good job of attaching it. And.

there's also this ideology thing. There's left and right. And if you're. left, you're blue no matter who. Blue to. the grave. That's it. And if anybody. that votes red is a dirty racist. fascist. And and they think about it. that way. And we really have no option. for a centrist party in this country, which is where most people lie. Most. people lie in the middle. Most people. are very socially liberal. And most of. the people that I know that are even. identify as conservative, they're very. socially liberal. But but they're. financially much more aligned with.

conservative ideology. >> Sure. Well, I think I mean I think. ultimately hopefully that the brick wall. of reality is what is what cures this. It's like it's when. >> if if we don't destroy society along the. way, >> if we don't allow them to destroy. society, if we don't completely erode. all of our rights along the way, >> and as you said earlier, it's you can. get very close to that happening. >> And rights ne lost are never regained. Never. Look at Australia. They had one. mass shooting. They took their guns in. the 1990s. Then COVID came. They're. like, get in a [ __ ] camp.

>> Yeah. And they've just they've just. introduced a new hate speech law off the. back of the Bondi Beach shooting. And of. course, this again is really draconian. It goes way too far. In fact, I think. the Australian hate speech law is. basically saying if someone does. something that wasn't intended to stir. up hatred, but it could conceivably have. stirred up hatred among a theoretical. group or pe or group of people, then. it's a crime and you can get 5 years in. prison. >> Sure. And imagine blaming that on hate. speech instead of blaming it on just. letting wild violent criminals immigrate.

into your country. >> I mean, that's Yeah. What? Go. What an amazing gaslighting. >> Like not saying, "Hey, maybe we should. stop letting violent criminals enter. into our country illegally and live. here." No, no, no. What we should start. doing is taking people that have done no. crime whatsoever and create their. dissent, >> create a crime based on their descent. >> I totally agree. We had it in the UK. We. had a um a politician, horrible story,

guy called David Amos, you know, uh he was stabbed to death by. an Islamist at his surgery. You know, politicians have we call them surgeries. where you meet face to face your. constituents. They come and you talk. about the local issues. I don't think. they do that in America. Um he stabbed. him to death and then there was this. parliamentary debate about how can we. crack down on free speech online, >> right? [laughter] No, the problem was. the the knife wielding maniac. The. problem was unchecked Islamism. >> [snorts]. >> It really is what Bessonoff was saying. >> Yeah. It's that thing of not addressing.

the like after the um. >> not seeing the truth. Not seeing the. truth because you've been captured. You've been demoralized. >> But I think what's better now is that. people can see through that. So like. when when um Kharma after that horrible. I mentioned it earlier, the girls who. were killed in the dance class by the. guy who was a child of immigr. immigrants. Um he that his response to. that was okay let's let's not uh you. know deal with the fact that we've got. radicalized individuals within our. community young people. He said let's. ban buying knives off Amazon.

>> because the guy got the knife from. Amazon, right? You can also get them in. shops here. [laughter] You can walk in. and get. >> most people have a kitchen knife at. home. It's like one of the most. >> common weapons. >> And he banned ninja swords around the. same time which was a big blow to the. ninja community. But I kind of. >> so crazy like that's the thing you go. for. You choose the. >> the thing that isn't. >> but this this is the idea of allowing. this kind of chaos and having this be a. coordinated plan, right? The more chaos.

you have, the more you gaslight people, the more people are attached to an. ideology, the more you can keep. restricting their rights further and. further and further until they're more. and more frustrated until a lot of them. just give up. But we are at a position. now where people are seeing through it. all the time in the UK now like no. matter how much they smear reform is far. right the polls just keep going up and. up and up for them. >> right but it's because of the internet. because you have at least some. dissenting voices. >> we have that and also the palpable. absurdities of what the politicians are.

trying to tell you is real. >> is has be has reached such. >> that's why they're trying to crack down. on pup talk. >> oh and by the way you know the Labour. party has canled a number of local. elections because they know they're. going to lose them they've actually. cancelled They've well they've said. they've postponed them while they're. reforming the system, right? What what. they're really. but it's stuff like that where. >> get rid of the juries, cancel elections, and they're the good guys. >> And and at that point, it doesn't matter. how much your propaganda or how much you. think your propaganda is going to work. The public are going to see through that.

and they say, "Hang on a minute. You're. saying that I can't vote? You're saying. if I end up in court, I may not have a. jury. You're saying I can't browse. through Twitter. You're saying I can't. say the wrong thing online. Enough is. enough." And I think they they they. reach a point where they say and and and. some of the stories are so egregious. like for instance the guy have you heard. of a guy called Hammet Koskin this um I. think he's Armenian guy who burned a. copy of his Quran outside the Turkish. embassy right the idea of this was a. protest against the Turkish government. because he perceives Erdogan's. government as uh I suppose supporting.

Islamism and the rise of Islamism. So he. protests outside the thing, burns the. Quran. Two people attack him, one with a. knife, the other some deliveroo driver. starts kicking him. He gets prosecuted. in a court of law for inciting the. violence. And the judge actually says. the fact that you were attacked is proof. that you were inciting violence. Right? It took the free speech union in the UK. to have that overturned to fight on his. behalf to say that's a peaceful protest. It was his copy of his book. We don't. have blasphemy laws in the UK. But now.

the CPS, the Crown Prosecution Service. is trying to overturn that because they. want to see this guy go down. And that. is what we're talking about. We've got. bodies like the Crown Prosecution. Service saying, "No, we want an Islamic. blasphemy code in the UK." The Labour. Party wants an official definition of. Islamophobia, so you can't criticize. You can't peacefully protest. You can't. burn a book that you bought, you know, and all of that. And we're seeing this. happen in front of us. And people are. just saying, "Look, we believe in. plurality. We believe in freedom of. religion. you should be able to, you. know, we're not, we've got nothing. against Muslim people. What we are.

objecting to is the idea that we. shouldn't be able to ridicule your. religion or mock your religion or. protest against your religion and you're. going to pathize it by saying we've got. a sickness, we're Islamophobic. I think. people I think that case, the fact that. you can't burn I mean some kid in a. school in Wakefield accidentally scuffed. a copy of his Quran and he got hit with. a non-rime hate incident and there was a. big issue and the police got involved. you know, we have to hold fast to this. idea that. >> no, no idea, no idea doesn't get.

criticized. No, like I and so I I just. think the more stories like that happen, maybe I'm naive, but I think the British. public's patience is kind of at the very. end. >> I hope so. I hope it's not too late. I. really do. Um, but in the meantime, your. book, The End of Woke, it's available. Did you do the audio version of it? >> I did. It took me ages. >> Yeah. I'm glad to hear it though. >> Yeah, I'm sure it is. But it's so always. so much better when it's in someone's. voice, especially someone like you. >> Thank you, Andrew. Really appreciate it.

And I I hope you guys figure it out over. there. But in the meantime, I'm glad. you're here. >> Well, I got away. >> I'm glad. >> I'm glad. But I mean, that's that's It. shouldn't be that everybody has to. escape. That's crazy. >> No, I know. >> You know, it's nuts. And then what do. you what's going to be left? Like only. people that are submitting and then the. chaos of what you've allowed in. It's. [ __ ] nuts. >> Exactly. Okay. So, you got to make sure. that America doesn't go to pot cuz I. need this place to work. >> I need it to work, too. Part of my. [laughter] business model. All right. Thank you. Bye, everybody.

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