Joe Rogan Experience #2438 - John Mellencamp

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. All day. >> Okay, cool. >> Why? Why would I hate my tattoos? >> Because you get older and they get all. smudgy. And. >> Mine are getting kind of smudgy. >> Yeah, look at this one. >> It's pretty smudgy. Pretty [laughter]. [ __ ] smudgy. I I owned a tattoo parlor in.

[snorts]. I don't know what year it was, mid80s. And they were illegal in Indiana, but. because it was me, they said, "Okay, leave him alone.". >> Really? >> Mhm. >> I remember when they were illegal in New. York. I used to I went to Connecticut to. get my first tattoo. >> Yeah. I uh. I didn't know it was illegal, but I met. this guy in LA and uh he worked at. Sunset, you know, where the Hyatt houses. and there was a tattoo parlor right.

across the street. Anyway, he was there and uh. so I brought him to Bloomington because. he wanted to get out of LA. and guess why? They closed me down. >> Why? >> [ __ ] guy was a heroin addict. [laughter]. I know. And he did this tattoo one time. and I went over I just went over to the. shop. I said, "Hey, let's do this. little" and he was all [ __ ] up. [laughter]. And it was just like what's wrong with.

it? You know, cuz I didn't know. I don't. know anything about heroin addicts. So, there wasn't a lot of heroin addicts. back then. That was a rare thing. Now, I. mean, think about how many people are. because of the Sackler family. Think of. how many people are hooked on opiates. today. I mean, it's got to be lots. >> It's off the charts in comparison to. what it was like in, you know, the. 1980s. There's I mean, I knew one guy. that uh had a friend who did heroin.

That's it. >> Well, I was at a The first time I saw. somebody do heroin was uh. I was in college and there was a place. called Bull Island that tried to imitate. Woodstock. and me and my then wife and a kid and a. little girl and uh. and my roommate who lived with us. We're. just walking down there and we see this. guy shooting up. So, we just thought,

well, we'll watch [laughter]. cuz he was just sitting right there and. I mean there was like 200,000 people. there. And he shot. and he went out. And I looked at the guy I was with go, we won't be doing this. [laughter]. We're not going to do this. I had a friend who was a long shoreman. and he worked with this guy that every. lunchtime he would go and score and sit.

in his truck and shoot up and that's. what he did every lunch. He was a. functional heroin addict and he would. show up for work every day and he did. his job. But uh during lunchtime, during his. hour, he would do heroin and just. [ __ ] find his happy place and then an. hour later go back to work. >> and he and the one shot would last all. day. >> I don't know. I don't know if he did. hero I didn't ask if he did heroin after.

that as well. I'm assuming he probably. did. But he was a functional heroin addict. Like guy kept a full job. He was in the. union. and everybody knew this guy would go on. his break, shoot up. >> Last time I did drugs was 1973. >> What was the reason you stopped? >> Want to hear? >> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter]. >> Well, I used to like to.

smoke. and drink whiskey. and then I like to fight. >> Oh, that's problem. >> I couldn't whip anybody. [laughter]. I could I could [laughter]. but I loved the contact and the the the. rush of like, you know, starting the. fight. But so anyway, [laughter]. I was in college and. my roommate and I went to this downtown.

bar, which we'd never been to, and I sat. at the bar and I would start these. fights, you know, just a prick. And uh. I was sitting next to this big guy and. uh. for whatever reason, I thought it was a. good idea if I spit on him. Oh, >> one of those guys. You know, you know. those guys that get drunk? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, that was me. [laughter]. [gasps].

So I did and. we went out back and he left me in the. alley like a wet rag. I mean, he beat. the [ __ ] out of me. Beat the [ __ ] out of. me. And I was a hippie. I had hair down. to here. And they, the guy, my roommate, was. driving me home in an old pinto. And I was leaning on the door like this. I was so [ __ ] up from getting beat up.

I mean, the ores around my face were. this big. And I was leaning on the door. and all of a sudden he went over track. and I fell out of the car. [laughter]. Got my hair wrapped around the jigma. flop that holds the car. And the guy. that I'm with drunk driving, he didn't even know I fell out of the. car. And I'm going, "Stop the car. Stop." He went, "Oh." [laughter].

And um. so I got up the next morning and I. looked at myself. and I was unrecognizable. I had road. rash on my arms. My knees were all. [ __ ] up. my face was beat up from the and I just. said, you know, this drug and alcohol. thing is not working for you. And so I I went and got all my hair cut. off. Not as short as yours, but not much. longer. And uh that was it.

>> Well, you found your rock bottom. >> Yeah, that's what they say. They say you. need to find rock bottom. I would never. imagine that you would be the type of. guy that would [ __ ] with people at a bar. and spit on somebody and start a fight. It just you just don't seem like that at. all. >> Well, I grew up in a small town and uh. there was not much to do in a small. town. [snorts] Uh you know, you would. either uh find a girl or or fight.

just. >> I figured you for the find the girl type. guy. [laughter]. Well, you know, I I I was uh I did okay. with that, but it didn't always work. So, yeah. Yeah. It was like uh Don't. forget, Joe, it was like 19676. You weren't You weren't even born yet. >> I was born ' 67. >> Yeah. So, this is like 1967. >> Wow. So, you know, so from that time on.

until I turned 21. I was 21 when I quit. using drugs and quit smoking, quit. drinking. >> Wow. Nothing since then. >> Not a drop. >> That's impressive. >> Not a drop. Well, you know, I think I've. thought about and I think that I didn't. really like it that much, >> you know, as much as I thought I did. >> Well, you certainly didn't like the. results, right? One bad result will. >> what do you. >> set you straight. >> Yeah. What do you Yeah.

>> You were uh a big part of my high school. experience. It it was interesting. because you uh your song sort of. introduced the idea of nostalgia to me. >> You know, >> I don't know what that meant. Well, the. when you were singing songs like Jack. and Diane, it's like I was kind of. realizing as I was a very young guy. listening to those great songs that. there's there's going to be a like this. is a weird time in life and there's.

going to be a time where you're going to. look back on this and it's probably one. of the best times of your life, but even. though it doesn't feel like it, it felt, you know, felt confusing and weird. And. I I remember thinking at the time like. my god like is this as good as it gets. You know, some people look back on this. weird confusing time of adolescence as. the happiest moments of their life. I'm. like, I can't wait to get the [ __ ] out. of this time of my life. And it's like,

you know, you were singing from a. position of like an everyman. position of no, you know, you were you. were singing the star. They were great. [ __ ] songs. They had heart and there. was. it was soul to them, but it was like it. was a lot of sadness, you know, a lot. of, "Oh, yeah, life goes on long after. the thrill of living is gone." And I was. like, "Oh, Jesus Christ. Life's going to. go. This [laughter] is it.

>> This is it. >> This is it. >> This is it." Well, I [snorts] listen, I. struggled with that. probably like you did or he did. Uh, you know, there's a point in a man's. life where he feels like there's got to. be more to life than this. I mean, I had. huge hit records and, you know, very, very, very, very, very. lucky, very lucky.

You know, everything was, you know, was. just I was just lucky. And I would go home and I would think, I'm not happy. There's got to be more to. life than this. [gasps] And then guess. what happened? I got a little bit older. and I found out. there's not. [laughter]. And I'm good at it. I'm good at it. So, you know, we're only on this earth for a.

few [ __ ] minutes. quit feeling sorry. for yourself and quit being confused and. accept your responsibilities and and try. to, you know, maintain some humility, which was a million miles away from me. spitting on people, >> right, >> in a bar. >> What didn't you enjoy about being this. enormous rock star in the early days of. MTV? I mean, you were a rock star when. it became a totally different thing. because it was like this visual thing. that was in everyone's household now. It.

wasn't as simple as no, you were on the. Tonight Show and you would sing this. musical segment and people would have to. go see you live to go see you perform. >> And all you got to see of guys in rock. bands were their album covers. >> Mhm. >> You know, you you would go to a record. store and and file through the records. and if you like the way a band looked, you would buy the record. At least I. would. >> I would too. Yeah. >> And and so um. I forgot the question. Well, I was just.

saying like what was it what was not. good about that? I mean, what what was. that experience like being this enormous. rockstar that left you feeling like you. wanted more, that you weren't happy? Uh, I think that uh for me, I think I I. think it when it when that happens, it's. the age you're at, and I think it's a. chemical imbalance in our brain. And as we grow older, it kind of finds.

its way. And like I said, I just woke up. one day and just went, "Hey, this is all. there is. Accept it. and try to show some humility and and. try to be good at it." And it I never. thought about it again. >> That's interesting. Well, you're a. you're a snap out of it type of guy, right? You snapped out of drugs and. alcohol. You snapped out of feeling. sorry for yourself. Yeah, >> that's a good trait to have. >> Well, I'm very lucky that that I'm.

Listen, Joe, you're looking at the. luckiest [ __ ] guy you you've ever. interviewed. I don't give a [ __ ] who. you've interviewed. I'm the luckiest guy. you know. I was born with spinoipida. Do. you know what that is? >> I don't. That's where you have a hole in. your spine. and. [clears throat]. the fluid and all of the your nerve. endings like on me.

>> Look at the back of my neck. >> Oh wow. >> You see that scar? >> Oh, that's crazy. Yeah, >> that scar is huge. >> That's 1951. In 1951, you got that operation. >> I was born [snorts] with You're born. with spinal b. And. >> so what do they do to what what was that. operation exactly? >> Well, [snorts] they had to uh Well, here's the story. I was a my parents were only 20 years.

older than me. So I was born. deformed. and my parents didn't know what the [ __ ]. to do. You know what are we going to do. with this kid? So they just went like. that to my grandmother. Here you take. him. And uh. so I was in the hospital and uh there. were four other kids and there was a. young doctor named Heinberger who was. just a young neurosurgeon. Don't forget.

neurosurgery in 1951 was in its. so he just said well we've got to try to. do something with these kids. And uh. so he operated on all of us. I was the only one that lived. >> Oh boy. >> You know the fact that. and he charged my parents a dollar. for the you because it was an.

experiment. I was like a guinea pig and. these other poor kids who had the same. thing I did. Uh they all died within, you know, 6 months. >> I remember seeing one girl that made it. till she was 14 and she was in a. wheelchair. I would see her basketball. games and my parents would go, "That's. the other little girl that had the same. operation you did." And then she died. So my whole life has been full of luck.

I mean, uh, I'm not supposed to be here. >> What did they do during the operation? What is the procedure? >> Well, they have to. cut your head off for starters. You. know, they they had to cut my head and. lay it open. >> to get to my spine. And then they would. push each individual. nerve ending back down into my spine.

drain the fluid off. uh sew it back up and make sure that. everything was working. And uh they told my parents, you know, look, uh here he is. He's probably going. to die become get encphilitis and his. head's going to fill up with water. We. we don't anticipate him living much more. than six or seven months.

And I was [ __ ] I think I was in fifth. grade. I didn't even know I'd had the. operation. And some kid in my class. said, "Hey, Mal Camp, what's that big. scar on the back of your neck?" Don't. forget. Now we're talking, you know, 1957, 58, 60 maybe. I didn't even know there was a scar back. there, you know. Wow. Wasn't like I was. going [snorts] and my parents never told. me. So I [clears throat] came home and I.

asked my old man. I said, "Dad, what. what's with the scar in the back of my. neck?" And he goes, "Oh, don't worry. about it. You had an operation when you. were born." So I did it. I played. football. I ran track. I fought. You. know, I did everything that every other. kid did without a thought of that. Not. until I got older and I had started. having panic disorder that I thought. I thought maybe that the panning. disorder was from uh.

from that operation. >> How old when you started having panic. disorder? >> Uh I was just out of college. I couldn't. leave the house. I became what they call. uh what's that called? Agorophobia. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, I had agorophobia for about a. year and a half and then I got a record. deal and I had to leave the house. I. mean, I was married in high school. I. got married in high school and the girl. I was married to was 5 years older than.

me, you know. >> How old were you? >> 18. >> 18. >> Yeah. >> You had a kid, right? You had a kid real. young. >> Yeah. She's uh 50some now. >> Wow. >> I I have three girls and two boys. Weren't you a grandfather when you were. in your 30s? >> Maybe. >> I think you were. Right. >> Yeah. >> NFL playoffs. Let's go. DraftKings. Sportsbook. An official sports betting. partner of the NFL makes every moment. feel bigger. A running back cuts through. the line. A strip sack flips the field.

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through if per wager tax may apply in. Illinois. 21 and over. Age and. eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void. in Ontario. Restrictions apply. Bet must. win to receive bonus bets which expire. in 7 days. Minimum odds required. For. additional terms and responsible gaming. resources, see dkg.co/audio. Limited time offer. >> Cuz that oldest daughter of mine got. married when she was like 19. >> Wow. >> Not much to do in a small town, man. >> Yeah. >> Not much to do. [laughter]. So. that's the spobifida.

>> But it never bothered you again other. than the panic. Do were you performing. when you were having the panic stuff? >> Oh man, I have been on stage in front of. like 20,000 people and had a panic. attack. >> Yeah. It's like, have you ever had one? >> No. >> You're lucky. cuz you feel like uh I can't breathe. >> My chest hurts.

And. >> I've seen it. I've seen people have. them. It's It's horrific. You can't do. anything for them. You're like, "Are you. okay? You think they're having a heart. attack. You think they're dying.". >> Yeah. Well, I've been on stage and I. remember having to plant my feet. >> and just power through, you know, in. front of 20,000 people and it was it was. awful. >> Did it pass while you were on stage? >> Uh, I don't know if it did. I just. remember it happening numerous times. And then guess what happened? I had a.

[ __ ] real heart attack on stage at. Jones Beach like 30 years later. >> Oh Jesus. >> I know. So, but you know what that heart attack led. to? I was I just married Elaine. uh Irwin and we had two little boys and. I got to stay home. because I said, "Fuck it. I'm going to. die. I didn't know about heart disease. I'm going to die. So, I want to spend. the last couple years of my life with my.

boys who were little teeny guys, which I. want to tell you a story about them and. you. Uh, and uh uh so I got to actually kind of. not be in the music business, which. pleased me. Um, >> how old were you when you had your heart. attack? >> 42. >> Oh, jeez. And uh so I got [clears throat] to stay. home. I stayed home for three and a half. years. Elaine didn't model and we just.

you know we had TV shows we watched. which is unheard of in my life you know. like hey it's Thursday night let's watch. let's watch this you know which is where. you come in. So the boys were little. and they loved your show. They loved your [ __ ] show. And I was kind of like, I don't know if. the kids should be watching this, you. know? >> You talking about Fear Factor? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I don't know if the kids should be. watch. So, I made a deal with them. All.

right, you guys. You can watch this. show, but you have to watch 60 Minutes, too. [laughter]. So, if you're going to watch this, then. you got to watch 60 Minutes. And they. obliged, which surprised the hell out of. me. But it was like, "Dad, 60 minutes. on, Dad. Fear Factor's on." I know. So, we would watch it together. I mean, how. lucky is that? >> That Well, it sounds like it was a. blessing in disguise.

>> Yeah. Well, that's. >> Yeah. It gave you pause. >> You know what luck is? >> What? >> Thinking you're lucky. >> Thinking you're lucky. >> Yeah. >> What you think about yourself all comes. true. I wrote it in a song once. what. you think about yourself will come true. >> So if you call yourself a dumbass, guess. what? You do it enough and you start. your brain starts believing it. >> What caused your heart attack at such a. young age?

>> Me being stupid. Uh I would go in and to get a physical. and they would go, "John, your. cholesterol is off the charts. It's at. 400. And I would go, "Am I all right. now?" And they'd go, "Well, yeah, you're. all right now." Good. Cuz I didn't want. to get on medicine. >> You know, and statin drugs had just. become. just were invented. Uh, you know, at that time, people.

started using statins and I didn't want. to take them. I didn't know what they. were, but I know all about heart disease now. >> Did you have plaque? Did you have. arterial plaque? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. And uh it runs in my family. I have a sister that has or she used to. I don't think she does anymore, but her. cholesterol was a 500. Imagine that's like [snorts] it's crazy. Cholesterol is a very controversial. subject now because people are starting. to try to sort out what is the actual.

cause of heart disease. And there's a. lot of people that don't believe it is. cholesterol. They think it's arterial. plaque. And what is that stuff called? Nattokenis. I I don't know how to pronounce it, but. there's a a supplement like an. over-the-counter supplement that's. supposed to be able to eliminate. arterial plaque in a very. [clears throat] profound way that. they're just starting to realize. >> I don't know. But.

>> clogging of it. Listen, what. I was in New York once. with a girl and I went to the doctor. with her. She's an actress. and she was getting a physical and she. wanted me to go so I went with her and. uh. she went to the best doctor in New York. City [snorts] and I found myself alone. with that doctor and I said so uh.

the doctor in Bloomington just put me on. metformin. what's the side effects for metformin. and this guy. Joe was the guy. He went. longevity. And he said, "If it was up to me, I'd. put the entire United States on. metformin and a statin because the. [ __ ] food we eat is terrible.". >> Yeah. >> It's processed. It's this and that, you. know, and he just said,

>> you know, the the human body was not. meant to eat this crap. >> That's a fact. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think the solution is probably. eating food that you're meant to eat. But metformin is uh one of those drugs. that longevity doctors recommend. I've. never been on it, but uh I know quite a. few people that have. I I think isn't it. a diabetes drug initially? >> Yeah. And I'm my mom died of diabetes. So uh I was always borderline and I'm. still borderline and this was.

>> she [snorts] get type one or type two? >> Well, she started out with two and then. she paid no attention to it. Wouldn't. take her medicine. We'd drive by crispy. cream and she'd go [laughter] this don't. tell your dad, okay? And she'd get a. half a dozen, you know, crispy creams. and eat them. And it's just like. >> that's where it's at. It's it's the. food. [snorts] It's a horrible thing. that we've done to this country. You. know, there's I mean, this is the most. controversial thing about RFK Jr., here,

I guess, or one of the most. controversial things is the elimination. of all the stuff that's already. eliminated in a lot of European. countries. He's. >> I I had a friend come here from Europe. who had not ever been United States and. got sick. >> Mhm. >> Just from eating. >> just eating our food. >> Yeah. >> It's crazy. Just our bread. What is that. that supplement? >> That's not You had it right. >> How do I say it? >> Think of how you were saying it. >> Can you find out what it's supposed to. do? Like what? because there's a recent. study. There it is. Okay. So, nano Yeah,

that's it. Nanokinise supplementation. can significantly reduce the size of. existing arterial plaques and slow the. progression of ar arterioclerosis. I never say that word. Arthther. athetherio sclerosis. a no atherosclerosis. whatever particularly at higher doses. uh nattokenase and arterial plaque. reduction. Multiple clinical trials. provide evidence that nattokenise, an.

enzyme derived from fermented Japanese. food, NATO, has a positive effect on. arterial sclerosis, hardening and. narrowing of the arteries due to plaque. buildup. Yeah. So folks, go take that. stuff. Highdose supplement shrinks. arterial plaque by 36%. Very interesting. stuff. >> Yeah. >> And it's a very common supplement. It's. an easy to get supplement and you know. it comes from fermented food. >> Mhm. Well, you know, if you if you know.

I've watched a lot of things about the. food that we eat. and. >> terrible, >> terrible. >> Well, a bunch of monsters decided to. make more money and the way they make. more money is to throw a bunch of. preservatives and [ __ ] and stuff. into food so it keeps their shelf life. as long as possible. >> Oh, yeah. You you've heard those stories. about uh taking a a a hamburger that you. would buy at a very popular store and. just putting it in a box and leaving it.

for five years and you five years later. it's. >> Oh yeah. I my some of my grandkids were. at my house in on DeFuski. and uh they had an ice cream sandwich. and they only ate half of it. and it sat there for three hours and did. not melt. >> Yeah, I've seen those. [laughter]. >> Yeah, that's not ice cream. >> That's not ice cream. >> I don't know what the [ __ ] in there, but it's not regular ice cream. The.

Burger King or the McDonald's hamburger. thing is nuts because what is the. longest that that guy There's one guy. that's had one on a shelf at his house. for God I want to say it's close to 20. years or something crazy like that. It's. just sitting there and you would think. that he got it 5 hours ago. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And we're supposed to be eating that. >> Yeah. >> And for a lot of people that's a big. portion of their diet is fast food which. is just crazy. You're just sucking down. all these chemicals and preservatives.

Cuz if something can not rot, can sit. there and not rot. >> Quarter pounder that's 30 years old. It. says [laughter]. >> it's a quarter pound and it's 30 years. old. Wow. That is insane. >> Yeah, >> that's insane. >> That's craziness. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Our our our food source and and I. don't know about RFK Jr. I, you know, I. don't follow what he says or listen. I. try not to listen to much politics.

>> Good for you. >> You know why? >> That's another good way to not have a. heart attack. >> Well, you know why? Cuz it's all, you. know, I was a hippie. >> Mhm. >> And I grew up thinking, [clears throat]. you know, that anybody over 30 was the. enemy, >> right? And you know, it's kind of like. my I remember when Kennedy was shot, I. asked my dad, I go, "Do you I was like a kid. I go, do. you really think one guy did it?" And he.

just looked at me and went, "What do you. think?" And that was the whole his whole. answer. >> Wow. Well, he knew it back then. That's. interesting because it took a long It. took until. Dick Gregory brought the Zapruder film. on the Heraldo Rivera show which was I. think it was 12 years after Kennedy's. assassination that people realized that. he probably had gotten shot from the. front. >> Yeah. >> Because his head went back into the. left. >> Yeah. and and and I've seen that and uh.

I remember my dad was a young Democrat, you know, and and uh so he he was. involved a lot with the Democratic party. back then and uh I'd ask him questions. and he never would really give me. answers. He would just give me looks. [laughter]. It was kind of like and he knew the.

look. It was just like, uh, what do you think, John? You really think somebody did that? You, you know, figure it out for yourself. >> Yeah. Not much has changed. And and that's why I don't watch. I don't you know I used to be very. politically minded and and cared about. what politicians said. I don't give a. [ __ ] what they said. I don't trust any.

of them. I don't like any of them. Not. that I don't like them. >> Right. It's just that I don't I I you. know it's just hard to believe anything. that anybody says because everybody's. spinning everything in such a way that. it's just like for their purposes, you know. So, you know, and. unfortunately we're more aware of it now. than ever before. There's less trust in. politics now than there's ever been. And. then there's more people talking about. politics than there's ever been. There's.

more polarization. I mean, I don't know. what it was like when uh you were a kid, but when I was a kid, there there wasn't. this polarization between people that. were conservative and people that were. liberal. Like, you could hang out and. talk to each other. You didn't they. didn't hate each other. They just. thought the other person was a fool for. having a different opinion than them. But there wasn't hate like there is. today. >> Well, here's the way you got to look at it. This is that when you used to vote, you.

would go inside a place and they would. shut the curtains. >> and you would vote and that was your. [ __ ] business. >> Yep. >> It's nobody else's business. So, like, you know, it's like, you know, I'm for anybody that's doing good. If. you're doing good and you're not hurting. somebody, go, man. But I, you know, I I'm not for cheating. and, you know, how about a little morality.

and. >> Yeah. >> integrity and what you're saying and. doing? >> No, it would be nice. It would be nice. >> Well, it's it's never been that way. >> No, never. >> It's ne it's never been that way. I. mean, in the in the 60s when I was. a hippie, uh. I mean, people think that this is like. really bad. No, it was really bad when. [ __ ] Russia had had uh missiles in.

Cuba and it was really bad when kids. with long hair were getting shot at Kent. State. I mean it was really the. separation of of of adults and and and. kids, you know, there was a change that. was happening and uh of course the. change happened and all my generation. did was get to wear blue jeans to work. That was about that's about all we.

accomplished. >> Well, the change was because it was the. first generation that realized that the. war that they were being sold was. [ __ ]. >> Yeah. you know, uh, the people that were. involved in World War I and World War. II, they thought they were stopping the. world from an evil dictator taking over. and and just ruining the world. That's. what we we're in World War II, United. States was fighting Hitler. You you. can't get a more evil. person that's leading an army that you.

want to fight against than that guy, right? So, everybody felt like that was. a just war. Came back from that war. victorious. America had national pride. We did it. We're the good guys. But then. all a sudden we're in Vietnam. Like what. the [ __ ] are we doing in Vietnam? Didn't. make any sense. >> Back up, Joe. What do you think the. Civil War was fought about? >> The Civil War? >> Yeah. >> Well, slavery was a big one. >> No. >> No. >> Ports. >> Ports. >> They fought It was fought over ports.

The port in Savannah, Georgia was the. biggest port in America. And the ports. in Boston, [snorts] New York were. struggling. And the North said, "Hey, why don't you guys send some of that our. way? You guys got more than you can. handle." And they said, "Fuck you. No, no, we're we're not sending you any of. our stuff." And they just kind of went, "Well, then [ __ ] you. We're going to. come down and take it.".

But how are we going to get the American. people to get behind that? Slaves. will say it's to free the slaves. >> Really? >> Yeah. I live I I have a house in the. south [snorts] and and uh. that's what it was about. It was about. the ports. Slavery was just an excuse. because nobody cared about black people. >> So, >> north or south? >> Wow. So you think that if they had just.

spread the wealth a little bit that that. would not have happened and slavery. would have still continued? Don't you. think that I mean there was already a. distaste of slavery because it wasn't. >> it wasn't ubiquitous in the north. >> but in the south. >> but but it was. >> in the north it was. >> yeah I mean Lincoln had slaves. >> right back then but not in not in the. 1860s when they were fighting the Civil. War. He was president. >> Really? He had slaves when he was.

fighting in the war? >> Yeah. >> I wasn't aware of that. >> Yeah. A lot of people in the north, you. know, they weren't at they they hadn't. spun it to be so cruel as the South was. apparently. >> Well, there was more in the South, right? Because of plantations and. >> Yeah. >> So, here it is. Abraham Lincoln never. personally owned slaves. This is. according to Perplexity, which is our uh. AI sponsor, which is always very.

accurate. Either before, during his. presidency, according to mainstream. historical scholarship, claims that he. had slaves through inheritance or. marriage come from fringe or highly. disputed sources and are not accepted by. most professional historians. >> That's me. [laughter]. Lincoln was born in Kentucky, raised in. Indiana and Illinois, all as a non-slave. owner, working as a laborer, a lawyer, and a politician. He was a really good. wrestler, too. Um, being related to.

slaveholders did not legally make those. enslaved people his property, and the. best documented homes Lincoln himself. maintained in Illinois and Washington. employed free servants, not slaves. [snorts]. >> Okay, where the. >> I'll call him for a second. Let me stop. for a second. You can call it what you. want. >> Mhm. >> Free servants. Call it what you want. >> Well, they were free and they were. getting paid is like means like you. said, you had a housekeeper. >> It was still a minstal show no matter. how you got it. >> Okay. Uh some modern writers and.

websites argue Lincoln inherited or. ordered this is where the idea Lincoln. had slaves came from. Uh websites argued. Lincoln inherited or ordered the sale of. slaves via the Todd estate. But these. claims hinge on a small number of. contested documents and are rejected by. most specialists in Lincoln studies. >> There you go. >> Well, it's interesting that the. >> the fact that we're even talking about. it. >> Mhm. Well, it's kind of crazy how recent. it was. That's what's really crazy.

>> Oh, yeah. It wasn't that long ago. >> Two two people ago. You know, people. live to be 100. >> Yeah. >> 1865 is roughly two people ago. >> Yeah. >> That's [ __ ] crazy. >> Well, I know. I bet you when you were in. school, you thought World War II was. ancient history. >> Oh, yeah. Which is nuts because I I was. in high school in the 80s, right? So, World War II ended in 45, which is nuts. Like, >> yeah, I thought it was ancient history. I I remember sitting in in history class. in 8th grade going, "What do I need to. know this [ __ ] for?" You know, and I was.

born in 51, >> so it was only like three or four years. and the war had just ended to me. Nuts. And but to me it was ancient history. >> Isn't that crazy? Because that. essentially what we're talking about now. is like the 1980s. >> Yeah. >> Well, that that to us the 1980s like to. kids today that must be like, "Oh my. god, [ __ ] dinosaur days." Yeah. No. internet. [ __ ] big old tube TVs. It.

was a giant box. >> Yeah. >> A big one was 14 in. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I uh I I [laughter] remember. being at home once and I told my dad I. said, "Hey, Dad, the people down the. street have got like a changer and it's. got a cord on it." And he goes, "I got a. changer, too. Change it to channel 4.". [laughter]. I was the changer. Yeah. I remember we used to have a. pliers because the thing got stripped,

so you had to change the channel with. the plier. You didn't know what channel. it was until like, oh, it's CBS. All. right, so we're on five. Go like this, then you're on ABC. Go like that, you're. on NBC. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I remember the day cable came out. I was like, this is [ __ ] bananas. Yes. >> Look at all these channels. >> Well, I I I remember seeing a home box. office time. It was like, what on earth? I even remember what movie it was. It. was some.

The Miracle Man or something. And I. thought, "What is it? This it's past. 11:00 and this movie's just starting. [laughter]. >> Are you kidding?". >> Yeah. >> Do you remember in the old days when the. TV would sign off and the American flag. would wave and it would just play music. and then it would just go. >> and then Well, the Indian would always. show up. The American Indian would. always show up and it had like this. >> Yep. And then it would go to nothing. They would stop broadcasting at night.

>> Yeah. 11. >> Yeah. >> 11. >> Those are wild times. Cable changed. everything. Home box office changed. everything because when HBO came around, all of a sudden you got to see standup. comedy uncensored. I remember the first. time I watched Sam Kenisonson on HBO, I. was like, "This is [ __ ] crazy." Yeah. >> Like I had never seen anything like that. before. Like wild raw comedy. >> Sam Canson? >> No, I never met him. >> I did. >> What was he like? Wild.

>> Yeah, I would imagine. >> He was very unpredictable, very uh you. know, he was empty. >> You know his story, how he became that. way? >> No. >> Got hit by a truck when he was a little. kid. He was real normal, like a normal. kid. His brother Bill wrote about it. His brother Bill wrote a great book. called My Brother Sam. And um he said. that Sam was just a normal kid. got hit. by a truck, got really [ __ ] up, bad.

brain injury, and then from then on, wild and reckless, just like impossible. to control, just a maniac. >> Well, you could imagine. I mean, you. know, that's. >> I don't know about you, but if you grew. up in the 80s, you know, our parents. used to just tell us, "Go outside.". >> Yeah. >> Yep. >> Go outside and we'll see you at dark. >> Yep. And you know I could go I was I. don't know 10 nine riding my bike all.

over Seymour. >> Yep. >> Which is where I grew up and just nobody. kept an eye on us. No. >> nobody you know. >> and nobody had any idea of knowing where. you are either. It was just your. responsibility to come home. There was. no way to find you. [laughter]. >> It was funny. They had to remind us that. uh. remind our parents that you have kids. There was a thing that said it's 10:00. Do you know where your children are? >> Yeah. [laughter] Cuz a lot of people. didn't.

>> Well, they didn't. >> And people would yell. They would open. up the window and yell their kid's name. Billy. [screaming]. >> You just hear it in the neighborhood. Someone like rolling down their window. Rolling up their window and just. screaming out the kid's name to tell. them to come home and hoping the kid was. in earshot. I remember uh uh somebody in. my neighborhood I would hear every night. at dark Henry EARL [screaming]. [laughter]. and I'd hear it and go I better [snorts]. go home. >> It's time for Henry Earl to go home. I.

better get home. >> What was it like when MTV rolled around? >> Uh I didn't I mean I liked it. And uh. >> how long had you been performing by. then? Oh, I was in my first band when I. was 11. >> Wow. >> Uh, you know, a little garage band with. a bunch of kids playing along with. records and then I was in a band called. The Crepe Soul. I think about this, Joe. I was 14 years.

old playing in bars. >> Wow. >> And my parents were cool with it. [laughter]. Was like, where's John? He's playing. tonight. Playing what? He's He's in the. grape soul. Oh, and it was me and this. black kid named Fred Booker. And we shared the vocals and we would. do, you know, we would do songs like uh.

pull strings and I'll kiss your lips, I'm your puppet, I'm your puppet. And we had, you know, neighbor jackets on. And I was cute back. then. And And so, you know, it was great. for me. I would have done it for free. because I was 14 years old making out. with 18, 19 year old girls. >> Wow. >> I know. It was great. Are you kidding. me? And then uh we played at every. fraternity, every sorority,

and I came home with maybe, you know, over the weekend I might make 60 bucks. I was the best dressed kid in school. >> Wow. >> That Melanchamp kid is just a dressed up. hood. That's all he is. [laughter]. >> So, did you know back then that you were. going to be a professional musician or. were you doing it for fun? Did you think. it was going to be a career? >> I thought, here's what I thought. I'm. either going to be a professional. football player, a professional boxer,

or a singer. That was my choices. >> You boxed? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I'll whip your ass right now. [laughter]. at 74. >> Is that why you were getting in so many. fights? >> Yeah, I liked it. >> Wow. >> I liked it. I I liked the contact. Didn't like getting whipped every. goddamn night, but you know, it happens. >> Did you have any any professional boxing. matches? >> No, but my son, I'm going to brag on my.

son. uh was national Golden Gloves champ. twice. >> Wow. And uh then he played football for. Duke and uh he was you don't want to. mess with Hud. Don't want to mess with HUD. >> And so. >> he's 31 now. >> When did the music thing really start. taking off for you? Well, I went to college and I got a. degree in uh. broadcasting technology, which at that time was pretty.

and uh. I would they would have dances at. college and bands playing and I would. sit there in the audience and go, I can. do this better than that. I know I can. And so as soon as I got out of college, I got into a band called the Mason. Brothers, which I have I have so many funny. stories. Like I said, I'm so lucky.

I got into a band called the Mason. Brothers, and we played every weekend. And uh I was a barroom singer, you know. I never wrote any songs or anything like. that. Uh you want to hear a funny story. about the Mason Brothers? How the Mason. Brothers ended? >> Yeah. [laughter]. This is good. The guy that ran the band, I was just a. singer. And the guy that ran the band. was a guy named Dave. And Dave. [clears throat]. talked to the Booker.

And we had a gig on a riverboat up and. down the Ohio River. And it was. fraternity show. And we had an old Plymouth. and a U-Haul on the back. And we get there and the guys in the. fraternity Joe are so [ __ ] mad at us. Dave failed to realize that there was a. time change between Seymour and. Cincinnati, which is on the Ohio River.

So they could all these fraternity guys. are going, "Where the hell have you guys. been? You're an hour late.". So it really pissed me off. I go, "Dave, godamn it. if you're going to run the. band, you got to like keep track of this. [ __ ] He said, "Oh, don't worry about. it." And as time went on and. uh. [laughter]. so. as and you had to do four sets back. then, you know, four 45 minute sets,

which was plenty of time for Dave to get. drunk. and he would drink and he was the bass. player. And the fraternity guys already hated. us, you know, because we weren't really. any good anyway. So [laughter]. Dave's playing and it's going along. really good and he was putting on a show. and he leaned back and man overboard. [laughter]. He [ __ ] fell off the ship and they.

had to stop and fish him out. >> Oh my god. >> So I got so [ __ ] mad at him that he. said uh I said, "Dave, I'm going to. quit. this is this is it for me. I'm I'm. done with with this crap. Uh. and then Dave said, "No, John, give us. one more chance." And then the drummer. quit cuz he went to uh he went to. medical school and then the guitar. player was still in high school.

>> Wow. >> And he was my mom and dad's paper boy. [snorts]. [laughter]. And uh. so uh Dave said, "John, let me put the. band back together. I'll get some new. guys. [snorts]. And I'd call him up and I go, "Dave, how's the band going?" And he'd go, "Oh, it's going great, man. It's going really. great." I said, "Good." I said, "Who are. these new guys?" He goes, "You'll see. when you get there. Don't worry about. it. I got it covered." I said, "Oh, you. mean like you did with the time change?".

And he goes, "No, no, no. This these. guys are good." So, I show up for this. gig. I haven't even rehearsed with these. guys. not even rehearsed with them. But. it was the same [ __ ] you know, because. it we we we were just a cover band and I. was just a barroom singer. So, you know, if you want to see taking care of. business, I'm your guy, you know, and uh. taking care of business, you know, who can't do that. So, anyway, I show up. Dave has recruited two.

sophomores in high school. who couldn't play their instruments at. all. The drummer was like, it's like. boom boom crack, [ __ ] Boom, boom, crack. That's all you got to do. And he. was. the whole [ __ ] time. And and and so. the show was about half over. I just. said I looked at Dave and I go, "You're. the lead singer." And I just left. because it was just too embarrassing.

And then uh I got uh I went I went to. New York. and uh I was afraid, Joe. I was afraid. I mean, I'm from a. [ __ ] town of 18,000 people. And I'd. been to Chicago once, never been on an. airplane. And so I flew to New York because I came. into some money. That's another funny. story. I came into some money and I went.

there and I was afraid to come out of my. hotel room for the first two days. because New York in the early 70s. was broke and there were prostitutes and. pimps and everything everywhere, you. know, and homeless people. Which reminds. me, you guys got a lot of homeless guys. here. There's a few. It's not as bad as. LA. >> Well, that isn't You can say that about. anything, Joe.

>> That's true. Yeah. Um, it's a lot better. than it was during the pandemic. During. the pandemic, they allowed them to do. the camping on the street thing. So, you'd go down like Caesar Chavez and. you'd see like 15, 20 tents where people. were just hanging out and people were. trying to jog and ride their bikes past. them. It was it was pretty bad. But uh. the former former mayor uh cleaned it up. and they have pretty good programs here. to get people into housing. >> Well, everybody here everybody here must.

love uh and I'm not putting Austin down. I'm just I have you know I was I played. here about three years ago. Uh but everybody must love graffiti. here. [laughter]. And that's the thing about graffiti. I I. don't mind if you want to. destroy somebody else's property, but at. least do something original. >> because it all looks the same. >> You know, it's big letters and outlined.

in it's done in black and outlined in. yellow and it's it's the same [ __ ]. [ __ ] you see in New York or Los Angeles. It's the same, right? >> If you're gonna if you're going to be a. an artist, be an artist. >> Well, a lot of these guys are just. tagging. They're just like sister gang. affiliation or whatever it is, I guess. >> I don't know. >> Yeah, >> but it wasn't that way the first time I. came to Austin. >> No, it's Well, I think all cities have. deteriorated, but I think Austin's deteriorated quite.

a bit less. We found out recently that. Skid Row in LA is 50 blocks 50. >> right now. >> Right now. 50 blocks. >> Wow. >> Of homeless people just living on the. streets. and like almost impassable. Like if. you've ever been down Skid Row, it's. [ __ ] I went there once accidentally. and this was in the 2000s. We were. filming Fear Factor downtown in LA and I. took a wrong turn and wound up in Skid.

Row and I was like I couldn't believe it. was real. Like I it was like a zombie. movie and that's I mean. so you decided on Fear Factor you go. stay in here for three days and you win. three days and do no coke. [laughter]. Yeah. You could do three days with no. meth and you win. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It was uh it was sobering. And. then then we looked up the history of uh. Skid Row. And the reason why it's like. that is they would take people out of. Hollywood and Beverly Hills and homeless.

people then and they would put them in. Skid Row and force them to stay there. And they they sort of built it as a. place where they could deposit vagrants. and homeless people. >> Well, there is a law in this country. called vagrancy. >> Mhm. Yeah. Not very enforced. >> Well, well, it's it's it would be Let me. tell you something. If you grew up in. Seymour, Indiana, it was enforcable, >> right? >> Because if you stand up town too long, which is all kids did back then,

>> the cops come up and go, "Hey, you've. been here for three hours. if we've been. timing yet. >> This episode is sponsored by BetterHelp. New Year's resolutions are great and. all, but sometimes I don't want to upend. my entire life to create a new and. improved me. If you're feeling the same. way, I've got a tip for you to let go of. those big New Year's expectations and. start small. Focus on one thing that's. been weighing you down lately. Maybe you. want to stress less about what you can. control or put less pressure on yourself.

at work or reconnect with an old friend. Whatever goal you have, Better Help can. help you get there. Therapy in general. is a great way to discover more about. yourself from an unbiased outside. perspective. It can really help take a. weight off your shoulders. Better Help. makes connecting with a therapist. straightforward and simple. And with a. network of thousands of fully licensed. therapists, they can connect you with. the right one like they have for. millions across the globe. According to. those same people, BetterHelp works.

great, too. Their live sessions have an. average of 4.9 out of five rating. So, do yourself a favor and try BetterHelp. BetterHelp makes it easy to get matched. online with a qualified therapist. Sign. up and get 10% off at. betterhelp.com/jre. That's betterhp.com/jre. >> Yeah. >> Move on. >> You want to keep a nice clean town, that's how you do it. >> Yeah. >> But if you let it go long enough, it. will be like Skid Row. But I mean, and I.

think that what we're saying like the. documentary, what was the uh hotel. again? That one. >> Hotel Cecil, >> the Hotel Cecil, the documentary was. about the Hotel Cecil, which was a. beautiful hotel in downtown LA that's. now a [ __ ] disaster area, but it's in. that whole area. And they just they. couldn't figure out a way to deal with. the homeless problem, but they didn't. want it messing up the beauty and. glamour of Hollywood. So every time they. would find homeless people, they would. just ship them to downtown. Downtown LA.

is really the only downtown of any major. city that I've ever been to where nobody. wants to go. >> Downtown New York is [ __ ] downtown. Like, holy [ __ ] we're downtown. Look at. all the restaurants. Look at all the. shops. >> Yeah, but it wasn't that way in the 70s. I mean, the first time I went there, it. was just like, >> yeah, >> you went to Time Square. It was. frightening. >> The [clears throat] first time I went to. uh New York was to fight. I was fighting. in a martial arts tournament in 1980. It had to be I guess it was 85 or 86 and.

uh it was bad. We went through through. Time Square and I was like oh my god I. couldn't believe people lived like this. I remember the first time driving. through it I couldn't believe how big it. was. I was like this is crazy. It was so. because Boston where I was from was you. know the big city. I thought it was. nothing compared to New York. I'm like. this is nuts. I couldn't believe how. many streets there were and how many. buildings there were and how tall they. were. >> But the uh just the seediness of it was.

so strange to me, you know, the peep. shows and all the weird people and I was. a kid back then. I was probably, you. know, 18. >> It was very strange. >> It was frightening. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Like like I was I don't know. I. probably got sidetracked, but the first. time I went there, I I didn't leave my. hotel room. I had a I was at a Holiday. Inn on 57th Street and I just kind of. peeked through the curtains and looked. and I can't go out there. I mean, I I. was, you know, coming off.

uh agorophobia. [sighs]. and here I'm in New York because I have. a meeting with some record company. people and you know they like to demo. and. so let's go back to that. So, you were. um your [ __ ] up drunk friend. You quit. him. How do you get back into music. after that? >> Oh, Dave. >> Yeah. >> No, I when I got my first record deal, the first guy I called was Dave. [laughter]. >> No, he was he was a great bass player.

He was a great bass player. >> Did he get his [ __ ] together before. then? >> No. >> Nope. Still not? >> No. No. I got funny stories about Dave. and Max's cast. >> Is he still around? Yeah, he's a. professor now. He found God and all this. stuff. He's a professor at Vince. University and he teaches. >> He's a professor. Wow. What does he. teach? [clears throat and cough]. >> Music. >> Oh, wow. >> And uh. No, he was really a handsome really good. bass player. Really, really, really, really good. body just, you know,

you know, Dave and we were 20 years old, 22 years old, you know, the [ __ ] did we. know about anything? >> Yeah. >> Nothing. Nothing. >> So, when you left Dave and you left that. band, what what happened next? What was. like the big break for you? >> I never really had a big break. >> Well, something must have happened. [clears throat]. It was a slow climb.

>> Yeah, >> it was a very slow climb. Yeah. I uh. I got a record deal. and of course being me at that age at. 22. Uh I went out to California and I met. with a guy named Mike Maitlin who hated. my new record but said I had great. possibilities. And I told.

>> [laughter]. >> I just stood up and I said, "Motherfucker, you're an old man. What. do you know about rock music?" He must. have been 40. [laughter]. And of course, I got dropped. immediately. I was on MCA and I got. dropped immediately. But there were a. couple people at MCA who believed in. what I was doing and so they helped me. along. And then I got introduced to uh.

Rod Stewart's manager. and I moved to England for two years, made a record and and you know lived. with the whole band on Chelsea in. Chelsea. and uh punk [clears throat] was just. starting and just starting I mean you. know the Clash and. the Sex Pistol I mean these they were. brand new bands. >> Wow. And there I am with an acoustic.

guitar going, I need a lover that won't. drive them like [laughter]. however that song became number one in. Australia. and uh. so. Australia was ahead of us with. televising rock bands. and they had a whole bunch of rock shows. and I had the number one record album. and single in Australia.

and couldn't fill up a bar in. Bloomington. >> Wow. >> Couldn't nobody come to see me. So. anyway, I went to Australia. and then uh a girl covered I Need a Love. and she had a big hit with it. I mean, my mine was like went to like 30 or. something like that, but hers went to. like two of of that song. And that's how. it all started for me. That was the very. first thing. >> Wow. >> Was some girl covering one of my songs.

>> And you were living in England. >> I lived in England for uh. [clears throat]. two years. and uh. and they had the National Front there at. the time. I don't know if you know what. that is. The National Front was if. you're not English, get out of our. country. >> Oh. And a couple my couple guys in my. band got beat up because they heard, you. know, some of the National Front guys.

heard uh their accent and it wasn't. English. So it was like dangerous to. even go to the movies. Keep. >> keep your [ __ ] mouth shut your head. down. >> What year was this around? >> 70s. >> 776. 7. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Yeah. The National Front was, you. know, they were like all a bunch of skin. head guys and violent and didn't did not. want any foreigners.

in their country at all. And even. Americans, you know, so yeah, you had to. keep your I you know, I learned real. quick to keep your head down, your mouth. shut. >> Wow. And so you got out of there because of. that? >> No, I got out of there because I got mad. at the I know it's hard to believe that. I got mad at somebody, but uh I got mad. at the manager because I never could get. the cockseacker on the phone, you know, and then I came back to United States.

and he had a he had a record deal based. on the number one record in Australia. And I [clears throat] used to go, "Well, we have a number one record in. Australia." And they would look at me. and go, "Not many Australians in the. United States, John. >> [laughter]. >> So, you know, and then it just kind of. built but see what happened and I don't. mean to sound arrogant,

but I didn't give a [ __ ]. I I got to the point where I was like, I. don't give a [ __ ]. you know, do what the [ __ ] you want. because I I didn't want to be Johnny. Cougar, which is how they made me start. Whose idea was that to turn you into. John Cougar? >> It was Johnny to start off with. >> Johnny Cougar. Tony DeFreeze managed me, David Bowie, >> Lou Reed, uh, Martha Hoople. You. remember all these bands?

>> Oh, Lou Reed for sure. Yeah. >> Yeah. Anyway, >> David Bowie, obviously. Rod Stewart, obviously. >> Yeah. >> Same guy. Manager. >> Now, Rod Stewart was different. >> Different manager. >> Different man, but he was English, too. So, uh, >> it's hard to argue with someone that's. got that kind of talent, right? >> Well, it's hard to argue, uh, when. you're 22 years old with a 45 year old. man who has had success, >> right? >> Yeah. Like I signed away my publishing. and stuff. This is an old story,

but I mean, an old story from everybody. from the Rolling Stones to, you know, you name it. Prince. >> if you were black, you know, it was like. here's a new car and a and a shiny ring. and some money. >> Yeah. >> And uh so I remember the I was in. getting ready getting ready to leave. England and I heard that. Gaff had.

uh. had good news for me in America. So. that's the reason I went home. And the. good news was is that he just got a deal. for me for on Mercury Records. [sighs and gasps]. And then uh so I can't I went back to. the United States and uh. we started, you know, started making. records and just kept plowing away. And. the critics hated me, you know, they. [ __ ] hated me because of Johnny.

Cougar. And main man came up with that. name, Johnny Cougar. And he his excuse. was, his name was David Jones, and I. called him David Bowie. And look how. well that worked out. And that was and. I'm 22. And I'm going, "But I don't like. this name." And they go, "Well, you. don't have to you don't have to. uh participate. you can go back to. Indiana if you want. It was like, well, [ __ ] you then. I will. And then I walked.

outside and thought for a minute, thought. [clears throat] I guess I'm Johnny. Cougar. Wow. I hated it. And and they compared me to. James Dean and Bruce and you know, so. the critics just hated that. It was. like, you know, he's so American. He's. so American. You know, yeah, I was a. [ __ ] hillbilly. [laughter]. [ __ ] critics. >> Yeah, >> they're always going to be a problem.

>> Yeah, but you know what? Um, I learned stuff from some of the. critics that were good. >> Like what? >> Well, one of my best friends was a guy. named Tim White who was the editor of. Rolling Stone and the editor of. Billboard magazine and he died a few. years ago. And uh. you want to hear some inside baseball? >> Sure. >> Uh Tim and I talked every day and Tim is.

as different as me as you. Tim wore a bow tie, white bucks, you know, blue jeans, suit jacket every. day. And he was the editor of Rolling. Stone for a long time. And then he became editor, Bill Board, and he called me up and he said, "I'm going to have to sign a deal with.

Sounds Scan.". I said, "So?". I didn't know what that was. He goes, "John, you don't understand the. ramifications of signing a deal with. Sounds Scan." I said, "Well, what are. they?" He goes, "You'll be out of. business." I go, "Why do you say that?". He goes, [sighs]. "Because now the way the Billboard. charts work, is this getting too inside. baseball?". >> No, not at all. No. >> Uh, the way the the charts work is that.

if you get played in Indianapolis. and you get played in New York, it. counts as one play. New York counts as. one play. Indianapolis counts as one. play. A play is a play. When Sounds Scan came in, they changed. it so it's like the number one record of. the week. So if you got to play in New York, that. was worth five points. If you got to. play in Indianapolis, that was worth a.

half a point. >> Oh. >> So what does that mean? That means that. people who grew up in St. Lewis and. where rock took place. All of a sudden, you know, where I what. got played all the time, the points. didn't amount to [ __ ]. >> But what did. urban stations? Urban stations played what? Rap.

So, do you remember when all of a sudden rap. music took over? >> Mhm. >> It was because it wasn't because these. guys were so great. And I'm not saying. they were bad. I'm just saying that it. was because of Sounds Scan. And my. friend Tim knew this was going to happen. as soon as I signed this deal with. Sounds Scan. And there was a magazine. called Radio and Records at the time who. was rivaling uh Billboard.

and uh. uh if Tim hadn't bought Soundscan, Radio and Records would have bought them. which would have made them the premier. record company because they were the. most modern. And so Sounds Scan changed. everything. So, I'm sure that you. remember that there was a time when you. knew every song that was number one. Then all of a sudden, you woke up one. day and you didn't know what the what.

what's how does this song become number. one? But the way that it was before. Sounds Scan, each song had to work its. way up the charts. So, if you had like, you know, let's say. 20 plays, I'm just throwing out low. numbers, but if you had 20 plays, uh, that got added to the 20 plays that. you got the next week. So, now you have. 40 plays. So, you might move up from 36.

to 31. But Joe Rogan in Boston was. hearing the [ __ ] songs as they move. up. Oh, I heard this new song. You. talked to your friends. and they said, "Yeah, I heard that song." And then all. of a sudden, the song would build and. build and build and build and build and. build and Michael Jackson would be. number one or whoever. >> And once. Sounds Scan took over, if you were in a. rock band, the record companies said,

"Well, [ __ ] this. We're not even going. to advertise in Indianapolis anymore.". Oh, >> the biggest the biggest uh uh. uh numbers. are uh R&B stations and they're playing. rap and that's what we're we're going to. service those people cuz back then you. know there was poliola and all that. stuff going on. >> of course. >> so there was like no money coming into. Indianapolis all of a sudden where there.

used to be. >> it was all going to New York, Los. Geggles, San Francisco to all these R&B. stations. and then. uh. what was that thing called when you. could like download records for nothing? >> Napster. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And then that started and then that. really put us out put all rock guys in. out of business. If you check the. Billboard charts right now, I bet you. you you'd be hardressed to find two rock.

bands in the top 100. >> Rock bands right now just in general are. almost non-existent in terms of like new. bands. It's really weird. There used to. be so many rock bands and rock and roll. is still a very popular form of music. when you listen to the older stuff. That's why that's why I've decided I. don't mean to plug myself, but I. they have been asking me because I got.

tired. of going on tour and being a. cheerleader, which is what I was. Let's. do a rounding hit of Small Town. I was. born, you know, and everybody stand up. and sing and it I was playing to 20,000. people and everybody was drunk and I was. just kind of the cheerleader, you know, the human good time. >> Yeah. Giving them the opportunity. I. just thought, you know, I'm here to be a. musician. This is not being a musician.

This is being a [ __ ] clown. I don't want to be a clown. So, I. started playing in theaters, which. pissed everybody off. [snorts] I said, and you know when you come to one of my. shows, and this has been for the last 20. years I've been doing this. You come to. one of my shows in a theater, it says, "Please. recognize. >> back then." Pull that sucker up close to. your face. >> What? >> The microphone. Otherwise, we're barely. here. You're very soft spoken already. >> How's that? >> There we go. Um, >> I am.

>> And I I am soft spoken. >> Yeah, a little bit. Yeah. >> You know why? >> Why? >> Cuz I'm deaf. >> Are you really? Oh, from all the. singing. >> Yeah. All the music. Oh, every rock star. is deaf. Yeah, >> I'm deaf. >> No one knew [ __ ] about hearing. protection back then. >> No, I'm deaf. I can't hear. [clears throat]. >> All my friends in bands. >> and all my friends that are hunters. Deaf. >> Can't hear. >> Yeah. Guns and loud music. >> Yeah. Uh my kids would love it because. they could walk up and say [ __ ] behind.

my back. [laughter]. >> Like I heard that. I got three girls and two boys. And what. how many kids you got? >> Uh three. Three girls. >> Uh girls or. at about 12 you lose them. and then about 21 they come back. >> I haven't lost them. >> You haven't? >> Fortunately. No. No. I'm real close. >> Yeah. 15 17 or 28.

>> I kind of lost mine. you know, it's like. and but now it's kind of like but I do. have a daughter that's really sick. >> It's not falcon vine. >> Oh, that sucks. I'm sorry to hear that. >> She's got um. she's got cancer in the brain. >> Oh Jesus. >> And uh she's suffering right now. But that kid used to call me up and I'd. go, "Teddy, you can have a thought.

without asking me if it's, you know, figure it out yourself. [laughter]. You don't have to ask me everything, you. know." But I love having kids. >> I do, too. It has made me a much nicer. person, that's for sure. >> Yeah, me too. >> But, uh, I've stayed close with them. even through the teenage years, luckily. But, you know, I worked hard at it. And. >> I was on tour all the time. >> Yeah. Well, that's one of the things. that I did when we moved to Texas, uh,

almost six years ago now, is that I, um, decided to be home a lot more. In the. beginning when here I was still touring. a lot. Uh, I would do, you know, weekends. I'd go do shows, but, uh, now. I hardly ever. Now, I have my own comedy. club, so I'm in town all the time. >> What do you think of standup now? >> I love it. It's a great time for. standup. >> You think? >> Yeah. Yeah. >> I mean, you you don't have to like worry. about crossing the line or. >> Yeah, you do. Yeah. Yeah. You do. You'll.

cross the line, but not for with the. people that you care about, you know. You cross the line for people that are. looking to be offended. >> Well, which is a lot of people. >> Yeah. So, they're going to be mad. Let. them be mad. >> Yeah. Well, >> you just can't pay attention. That's the. thing. It's like I I tell all the comics. like stay out of the comments. Don't. read anything about yourself and you'll. be all right. Just the audience is what. matters. Is the audience laughing? >> I've never googled myself. >> Good for you.

>> In my life. >> Good. >> I've never Googled myself ever and. because I don't give a [ __ ]. >> Well, that's a good that's a good. practice to keep. Where where were we? So, we were talking about how you they. stuck you with the Johnny Cougar name. You're in New York City. That's kind of where we left it off. I. was trying to figure out like what what. what was the MTV days like and when did. it like really start cracking? Pull that. microphone close up to you. When did it.

really start cracking? >> Well, do you know John Sykes? >> No. >> He was one of the guys who started MTV. >> Okay. >> And u. I remember calling him up and I didn't. know him. This was like 1981. 82. [sighs]. and like I said, you know, was it was. like uh. all you really saw of guys in rock bands.

were the album covers and. >> you know maybe on Midnight Special or. something like that. >> or Don Kersner's rock concert or. something like that. >> But then with MTV going all the time and. not very many people made videos. But. see, I was making videos because I had a. hit in Australia. And like I said, Australia was way ahead of us. So, it. was the video that I just made in a club. in London that was shown that made. [clears throat] that record number one.

>> Wow. >> In Australia. And uh. so when MTV started, there wouldn't be. that many people making videos, but I. was. So they had to make content. >> Oh. >> So they played me all the [ __ ] time. just because nobody else had videos yet, >> right? People hadn't caught up yet, >> right? And I remember sitting.

with I can't remember the guy, some. English guy. And I said, "Do you what is this MTV. thing?" He goes, "I don't know. The. record company told me I can't remember. the guy's name." He was really a good. songwriter, but you don't hear of much anymore. Uh. anyway, I had a convers one of us knew. what was going on. And then I met John. and uh.

I was [laughter] I was the first and. John and I got along great. I was the. first promotion that MTV did and we gave. away a pink house. >> Oh wow. you know, uh, and you had to. register and do all this stuff and, and. there's a funny story that goes with. that. So Sykes and somebody else came to. Indiana to find a house in in. Bloomington that they were going to buy.

and then they were going to do a show. and I did an ad where I went and you can. win a house and we're going to paint the. mother pig, you know, and that's what. they did. Except the house they bought. Joe was on a chemical dump. Oh, no. >> But I didn't know it and they didn't. know cuz they're from New York. And so when I found out, I I called them.

up. I said, "Guys, we can't give away. this house. It's on a [ __ ] chemical. dump because RCA. was dumping chemicals out in this field. that was right next to the house.". >> Oh jeez. that we bought, you know, and. back then in the in the early 80s, there. wasn't much legislation about where you. could dump that kind of stuff, >> right? [sighs]. >> So, they had to buy another house, which. they weren't happy about. [laughter] So, they had to buy two houses, couldn't.

sell the other one, gave it away. And. Sykes to this day, I'll tease him about. it, and he'll go, "Oh, we took that off. the books years ago.". >> Jeez. But it uh it it it it went from. walking down the street. to nobody know who the [ __ ] you are to. walking down the street and everybody. knew who you were. Everybody I mean it. got the.

at the height of MTV. you couldn't go I couldn't go any place. >> Did you get the agorophobia before that? >> Oh yeah. >> Oh boy. So that probably just made it. way worse, right? >> No, actually again Joe lucky. It helped. me get over it. >> It helped me and you know like I I. believe that all growth takes place in. the chemicals inside our body. So I was. growing still because I I grew up in.

public, >> right? >> You know, I grew I mean I literally grew. up when I got my first record deal. Joe, I had never written a song. >> Wow. Never written a song. They they. they asked me, "Well, play some of the. songs you've written." It's like, I. don't write no [ __ ] songs. I'm a I'm. a barroom singer. I sing other people's. songs. What do you want to What do I. write for? Dylan's writing great songs. Shrink Street. >> You hadn't written anything? >> Nothing.

>> Wow. So, when did you start writing? After you got a record deal. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Wow. But it turns out you're a great. writer. That's crazy. And I have dyslexia, [laughter]. which means I can't read. You should see. my songwriting books. It's they're it's. it's absolutely terrible. It looks like, you know, I have to have somebody now. and after I write a song, I have to give. it to somebody right away and let them.

copy it and I'll read it to them so that. we can read what [ __ ] you know, what. what I wrote because songwriting is not. what people think it is. But anyway, back to MTV. It just blew up and you. couldn't go anywhere. I couldn't I I. would walk down the street and all I did. was sign autographs and shake hands and. I didn't like it at all. >> Well, that'd be very weird. >> Yeah. I mean, it it it was like, you.

know, you've been in rock bands since. you were 13, nobody gave a [ __ ] and. [clears throat] then all of a sudden. they did. And you know it was the baby boomers. coming of age and you know I was very. fortunate but unappreciative. >> So when you first started writing songs. what was what was your process when you. knew you had to write songs? How did you uh.

>> Well, I figured out because don't forget the. critics hated me. >> already. >> Yeah. Oh yeah. John, they hated Johnny. Cougar Buck and they hated him and uh I. didn't like him much either. [laughter]. U because I, you know, we weren't any. good, you know, we just weren't we did. not write songs. We did not do anything. Uh,

so I figured, how do you reach a lot of. people. by being on the radio? So, keep it simple, stupid. So, I would write like I had a song. called Hurt So Good. Do you remember. that song? >> Sure. >> Yeah. Heard So Good. I wrote that in the. shower. and I came out real quick and I wrote it. down and then I had somebody.

write it down and [clears throat] I. remembered the melody and I sang it to a. tape machine. and uh [laughter]. I got so many funny stories. Uh, I was. down in Criteria, which was in Florida. in Miami, and um, you know, it was the early 80s and.

so we had this and Criteria had five or. six studios and, you know, there were. like, I don't know, all kind of bands. The PGs. were over here and this band was over. here and I don't know. And uh. we had we had the studio blocked out, but we wouldn't show up. We had other things to do. There was place called Scaramoosh.

They had the prettiest girls you ever. saw in your life. So it was like we did. not have time to go to the studio. because we had been up till daybreak at. Scaramoosh, you know, and uh. so I was spending a lot of [ __ ] money. by now and it was like maybe, you know, at the time a half a million dollars and. I had three songs done. Whoa. That's exactly right. Whoa. And I'd had.

a couple hits. I had I need a love her. uh ain't even done with the nine. >> And uh this time I think and so those. songs were like got into the top 20. Anyway, the record company came down and. said, "Mel, what the [ __ ] You know, you're spending all this money and and. if you. don't get on with it, we're going to. drop you from the label." I went, "You.

can't drop me from the [ __ ] label. Are you kidding me? I'm just starting.". "Well, we want to come down and hear what. you've done." I said, "Well, come on. down." I played him three songs, the. three I had done in six weeks. [laughter]. Anyway, I played him the three songs. They hated him. >> Which songs were they? Jack and Diane. >> Oh god.

>> Hurt so hurt so good. >> Oh god. >> And hand to hold on to. >> Oh my god. [laughter]. >> They hated those. >> Oh, they hated them. They said, >> "Oh wow.". >> They said, "John, this is they're too. rough. They're too raw. And what is this. sound in Jack and Diane? This. it's not even What is that sound?" Well, the sound. was I would walk by the BG studio and. they had just invented.

drum machines and the BeeGees were using. it to keep time because you know most. drummers. they speed up you know they start the. song at this tempo and all of a sudden. you they're like no by the end of the. song it's like I can't keep up with you. god damn it slow down. So, uh, the beaches were using it to keep time. and I heard this sound and so I knew the. engineer, his name was Ali Gluten.

and Al and I said, "Abby, can I borrow. that machine?" He goes, "Yeah." Because. we're not going to be in the studio for. a week. So, we were doing a song called. Jack and Diane that just was not working. out because the drummer kept speeding. up. And when you trying to keep it. simple, stupid. Simple is hard because if you make a. little mistake, it's a big mistake now because there's. not a bunch of [ __ ] covering up your.

mistake, >> right? >> So, I called up Mick Ronson. [snorts] He was the guitar player for. David Bowie. You remember Mick? >> No, I don't. >> Joe, >> god damn it. >> Sorry. >> Uh, anyway, Mick was a great guy. And he. was he was Bow's guitar player when. Bowie was great when he had Ziggy. Stardust and all that stuff. And Ronson. was an English guy and he'd call me. Johnny all the time. And you know, and.

uh. he said, "Johnny, maybe you should put those baby rattles. on there." And I go, "What?" He goes, "You know that drum machine thing that. makes that noise just to keep time.". And I said, "Okay, we'll try it.". So we put on this [singing]. [clears throat and snorts]. and it was perfect timing. Perfect.

So the odd the idea was is that we'll. take that drum machine out when we get. everything. We'll take it out. And now the drummer had to play in time. because. that machine did not budge. That machine was perfect. And it was it. was a prototype of a drum machine. That's how new it was. It was a. prototype. And it was the only one. They gave him.

the VGs to try it out to see how they. liked it. And uh. so we we got it all together and we took. the drum machine out. Sounded like [ __ ]. [laughter]. but it sounded great with the drum. machine. So I said, "Fuck it. we'll just leave. the drum machine in. And it worked because nobody had ever. heard that sound. >> And the record company didn't like that. >> Oh, they hated it. They hated They hated. that [ __ ] sound.

>> But that song was so good. >> Well, you know, and it's surprising to. me [clears throat] that to this day how. how many people still love that song. It's. >> a [ __ ] great song, >> you know. And ever. >> What year was that? >> 1981. Wow. I was 14. >> So, how So, how old were you in 19? >> 14. >> See, high school. >> Yeah, you were there. >> Yeah. >> That's great. See, that's great. And I I. I love hearing,

you know, guys your age talk about it. because it's just like I didn't know. what the [ __ ] I was doing. And the fact. that that song today I had somebody tell. me one of the nicest things anybody said. to me was is that John. there was Romeo and Juliet. there was Frankie and Johnny and now. there's Jack and Diane. >> and you've joined those two kids have. joined those people of importance in.

American culture. >> Yeah. And think about it. now. Who would have [ __ ] thought that. some dumbass like me would write a. [ __ ] song as a child when I first. started writing songs and create those. two characters that made such an. impression on everybody. >> The only other one I think about is. Brenda and Eddie from Billy Joel. Scenes. from Italian restaurant.

>> Yeah, >> that's another one. Yeah, Jack and Diane. was [ __ ] huge when I was in high. school. I can't believe the record. company didn't like that. They didn't. they didn't like Hand to Hold on to. >> God. And they and they didn't like me. [laughter]. >> God. >> And they didn't like me. >> Oh, how could you be more wrong than. Jack and Diane? Jack and Diane was. [ __ ] huge. Joe, look at I don't know that much.

about your career, but look at your. career and look at at what suits have. said to you and how wrong they were. >> Well, the most successful thing that. I've ever done, nobody had any input on. at all, which is this. >> Well, there you go. There you go. >> Yeah. Yeah, they would have there's not. a chance in hell anybody would have. said, "Yeah, have unfiltered. conversations for 3 hours with random. people. [snorts] and you know millions of people. will listen and watch." No one would. have believed it. But.

>> when we did it, we didn't do it for. anybody else. >> But you were an actor before. >> Yeah. Well, I was a comic first and then. u because I got a development deal, they. gave me some money to be on a sitcom. So, I did that. That sitcom got. cancelled. Then I did another sitcom. that was kind of successful called News. Radio that got cancelled and then I. wound up being on Fear Factor. Yeah. It's just a bunch of weird. circumstances that a lot of luck. A lot. of weird stuff happened. A lot of luck.

Yeah. >> Yeah. See, and you know what? I I walk in my house sometimes. and I look around and think I get to. [ __ ] live here. >> Yeah. I get to [ __ ] live here. >> I think that all the time. Yeah, >> I get to live here. And and how lucky I. I am to. have had that kind of success from such. an horrible beginning as Johnny Cougar. [laughter] and you know [snorts] to be.

able to you know. do I've done what I wanted to do ever. since I decided [ __ ] you guys. Yeah. >> After after American Fool came out and. those songs became hits, nobody. has ever said [ __ ] to me about anything. >> Well, they realized they were wrong. >> Well, well, those guys I'm sure are out. of business and I have to kind of smile.

about the rock critics because it got to. the point where. I had such. so many songs on the radio that they. couldn't ignore it anymore. Yeah, >> you were undeniable. Yeah. >> And that's and you know what? That's the. word I used to say. >> That's the key to success. >> That that's that's the word I used to. say to the guys in the band. We have to. make the song undeniable. >> because if you give them an inch, they'll find a [ __ ] reason not to. >> They definitely will. And there's. there's good in that, too. There's good.

in those people that hate that they're. valuable. They they can fuel you to. greatness. They can fuel you to be. better. Because if you know that there's. people out there that are just going to. [ __ ] hate on you no matter what you. do and you just got to come up with. something that listen this will be. undeniable and they they'll still hate. it. Look, I was watching a [ __ ]. interview yesterday where this lady was. talking [ __ ] about the Beatles. She was. talking about how she thinks the Beatles. are terrible. And this lady was not.

particularly articulate. She wasn't. interesting or compelling. She didn't. seem very intelligent, but she was. speaking with such authority about how. she thought the Beatles were terrible. And I was like, "Well, you're [ __ ]. wrong. You're You couldn't be more. wrong. You couldn't be more wrong. They. are one of the greatest bands in the. history of the [ __ ] known world.". >> Yeah. >> Fact. But this lady was just going, which shows you you cannot make.

everybody happy because some people. don't want to be happy. They don't want. to see good. You had four really. talented people in that band. And it showed because some of the songs, hear me out, some of the songs, it was. good for my generation because we went. from cartoons. to rock and roll. Mhm. >> So in a town where I was born lived a. man who s.

and here you know it was a cartoon. >> Right. Right. >> And the guy that produced. Martin the guy that produced the um the. Beatles. up until that point he made comedy. records. >> Ah. >> yeah he made comedy records and. cartoons. And so that's at least that's. my understanding and uh he brought that. to them you know and and uh.

you know you have four guys writing. songs. it's a lot better than John Melanchamp. writing songs [laughter] tell you that. >> you know so. >> you know. >> but my point is it's like you can't make. everybody happy because everybody's not. happy. >> well. >> and they don't want to be happy. >> I have said for years, I'm not for. anybody. I'm not for anybody anymore. >> Right. >> If you're coming to my show, and this is.

when I started playing theaters. If. you're coming to my show to hear all. these hits, you're not going to. But. that's why I'm after 20 years, I'm going. to go back out and I'm going to play. nothing but hits for two and a half. hours. That's how many hit records I. >> That's incredible. Yeah, it's [snorts]. going to it, you know, and I'm and now. I'm looking forward to it. >> Yeah, >> because I have not played I Need a Lover. in 25 years on stage. I've not. >> So, it's fresh.

>> Yeah. It's a brand new song. I'm going. to be playing it in a way that nobody's. ever imagined. >> Wait till if you come. >> if you come and see me. Wait till you. hear Jack and Diane. I have jammed it up. and it's a soul song now. >> Wow. >> Yeah. It's I there's a term for it. smash. A smash. What do they call this? Smash something. [snorts] Anyway, we. turned it into a soul song. I mean, what. would it be like if Jack and Diane was a.

soul song? >> So, you leave the melody the same, but. you put the instruments around them. differently, >> you know, >> to make it interesting for you. >> Well, and and to the audience because. when the chorus comes in, they're going. to be singing that chorus, >> right? Cuz if I play it now, >> he's trying to push that thing up to. your face. >> If I play it now, you know, it's just. usually me and acoustic guitar and and. it's good because. a little diddy and I don't have to sing.

anymore, >> right? >> They sing the whole song, >> right? >> And I might go, "Oh, yeah." And that's. it. And then they the audience sings it, which is great. Which is great. >> It's got to be really cool. I got to come see you live. Are you in. Texas at all? >> I don't know. >> You don't know? [laughter]. >> When When did you drop the cougar?

Because at first you were John Cougar. Melon Camp. And I remember that. I was. like, "What is going on?" Like, "Why. does he have another name?" Like, it was. confusing to me. >> Well, I was trying to and I think I did. it successfully. It. >> was a good transition. I I I didn't, you. know, I could call up somebody and go, "Hey, it's John Melanchamp." They. wouldn't take my call. I could call back. two seconds later and go, "John Cougar,". and that they would take my call. >> Yeah. >> So, I figured it this will have to be a. slow change. Elvis Costello tried to do.

the same thing and didn't work. >> What was his real name? >> I don't I don't remember. But that's not. his real name. >> Ah, >> but you know, he was tired of being. Elvis Costello and he he went back to. his real name and. >> [snorts]. >> people just wouldn't accept it. But with. me, it was such a slow. burn thing to get over. So, you know, it it again what? Lucky. >> It was the first time that I'd.

recognized that uh artists were forced. to change their name was you. I didn't. know. Really? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I had no idea. >> Do you know that? Do you know that every. [ __ ] movie star that we ended up. watching. >> on those black and white things, that's. not any of their real names? They're all. changed. They're all changed. Yeah. >> You think Rock Hudson was his real name? >> Sounds good. >> Yeah, it sounds great. >> Yeah. Now, yeah. Somebody decided they. wanted to come up with a catchier name, which [snorts] is interesting for a guy.

like Arnold Schwarzenegger. It kept his. real name, as bizarre as it was and hard. to pronounce. Yeah. Yeah. What? And I. just saw him smashing uh. the president. >> Yeah. He's always smashing somebody. I. think he's bored. [laughter]. >> Yeah. He needs to get back and run. running. >> He was a great governor. He really was. He did a really good job with. California. [snorts] California is a. [ __ ] mess. Now when you um.

transitioned to John Cougar Melanchamp. and then event like how long did were. you John Cougar Melanchamp before he. became John Melanchamp again? I think the last John Melon John Cougar. Melon Camp record. was. a record I was called Scarecrow and it. had Small Town on it and it.

had Small Town on it. It had five hit. Can you imagine five? It had five. [ __ ] hit records off that one album. Pretty amazing. >> Yeah. Lucky. And don't forget, I had. never written a [ __ ] song. >> That's what's crazy. >> Yeah. Never written a song. So I I grew. up in public. And if you listen to my. songs now, so much more mature than than those.

young I I I got so sick of it that I. wrote a song called Pop Singer in like. 98, 91. Never wanted to be no pop. singer. Never wanted to sing no pop. song. >> I remember that. >> Never wanted to uh you know uh have a. manager hang out after the show. I I. just you know it was. I wanted to be a musician. and not a clown which you know.

if you remember back Joe and I'm not. putting anybody down but there were a. lot of clownish guys. >> Yeah. from MTV. >> Sure. >> You know that were like what? >> Yeah. >> You know, and a lot of sexism and stuff. from MTV and no black people for a. while. You know, they didn't play any. black people. They might play Michael. Jackson, but other than that, >> right, >> but they but they just didn't. And and I. remember talking to Sykes about it.

Sykes, me, Don Henley, and somebody else went and did they were. going to drop MTV off a whole bunch of. stations. And we got on a plane. and went there. Went to all these. different stations that were going to. drop MTV and talked to them why they. couldn't do it. And it worked. >> Why were they dropping MTV? Uh, too led to [laughter].

I want to tell you something else, young. man. I want to tell you something else. I showed that by accident in a video. and. MTV wasn't going to play. Wasn't going to play the the video. because. >> because you had a tattoo. >> Yeah. >> That's hilarious. Yeah, because I, you. know, I had a tattoo and. >> that's hilarious. >> I know. >> Oh my god. It's so funny when you think.

about what music is like now and then. especially like in the late 80s when. hiphop really took off and then gangster. rap took off. >> Well, and and and now you know why? Because uh you know what we t we're. talking about about Sounds Scan and. stuff. That's how that's how all that. happened. and my deceased friend Tim. White, who I love dearly, told me it was. going to happen. So, and and I just sat. back and went, I can't I can't believe.

that this is right. >> Wow. >> I can't believe that that can happen. We're, you know, rock is too too. important to the culture, too important, you know, and there's a lot better. songwriters than me. And we all got. 86. I mean, like the [ __ ] Rolling. Stones just put out a new album and I. never heard it. You'd never heard it. >> No, I saw them live a couple of years ago. here. They played at the Circuit of the. Americas. It was [ __ ] incredible. It.

was like having an out-of- body. experience. It's like I couldn't believe. they were really there. >> Yeah. >> I remember watching MC Jagger on stage. and my friend was talking to me and I. was watching him and he's like, "Isn't. this [ __ ] incredible?" I was like, "I. can't I can't believe it's really him.". It's like they are so iconic. And here. he is in his [ __ ] 80s just jamming. The guy brings two trailers, two whole. trailers that are just gym equipment.

>> Yeah. Everywhere he goes. Works out. every day. Every year. We we we we. started Farm Aid in 1985. [clears throat]. And every year. cuz you have a at farm aid you have a uh. press conference in the beginning and. then I don't go on until like nine. o'clock. So I got all day. You know what. I do half the day. Neil, can I use your. [ __ ] [laughter]. gym equipment? because he's got a a a.

trailer like you know you would haul. groceries and couches and [ __ ]. >> and it's full of gym equipment. >> Can I use your So I I use his his not. his weights so much but uh [snorts]. but his uh you know his what do you call. it? I call it the lace machine where you. can be lazy. >> Elliptical. >> Yeah. Elliptical cross trainer. >> Hey, listen. It's better than nothing. >> Yeah. But I mean, watching Mick in his.

80s dancing around on stage and doing a, you know, a two-hour concert with full. energy, it's so impressive. It's so. inspirational that this guy still loves. it that much. I mean, he wasn't phoning. nothing in, you know? I mean, it was. [ __ ] him dancing and butting your. lip, baby. I mean, it was fullon. It was. like, wow. It was amazing. And and what. I find amazing, and I don't know why I. find amazing, but I find it amazing that.

people. relate to music in that fashion because. I didn't know that as a kid. I just. thought, you know, I thought I'd make. two records that it' be done. That's why. I stayed in Bloomington. I had a little. bit of money. I didn't know how much. more I'd have, you know, how much longer. I was going to last. So, let's try to. like buy a little house. And. I talked to I'm good friends with Bruce.

And. him and I both kind of just look at each. other and go, "Can you [ __ ] believe. it?" Because he's from a real little. shitty town in New Jersey. And we both just look at each other and. go, "Can you believe it? It's. unbelievable.". >> Well, gratitude is an important thing. It's kind of co-opted today with a lot. of like this spiritual movement. You. know, people say it and it kind of. sounds hollow and fake, but real.

gratitude, real thankfulness for a life. that you've been so lucky to have and. I've been so lucky to have. It's it's. it's very important. It's an amazing. thing. I mean, how could you not look. back at your life and not think, can you. [ __ ] believe it? >> Yeah. And and you know, the thing of it. is is that I sometimes ask my audience, I go, where are you? right now. and most of you probably say. I am at a John Melanchamp concert in.

Austin, Texas. And my answer is yes, but also where you. really are, you're on a [ __ ] rock. that's going around the [ __ ] sun that. has been here for millions of [ __ ]. years. And so we are only here for a. blink of an eye. So stop worrying about. everything so [ __ ] much. It doesn't.

[clears throat]. [ __ ] matter. Don't beep your horn. because the [ __ ] guy in front of you. didn't take off right when the light. turned red. It's not that important. Don't take yourself so [ __ ]. seriously. And try to try to have some. humility. You know, that's what I hate about. politics today. There's no [ __ ]. humility. How about some humility? I. don't care what party you're with. I. don't give a [ __ ]. >> But show some humility and some, you. know, respect for each other, which they.

just don't, >> right? >> They just don't. It's terrible. >> Yeah. There's a lot of that. If we can. get more people to recognize how brief. and fleeting this moment alive is, it's it's. it's so well I got it tattooed right. here on my arm. And my grandmother told. me this when she she lived to be a hund. and I would go over and I'd lay in bed. with her when she was like 99, 98.

And one day she said to me, she goes, "You know, John, if you don't stop this. cussing. and wild living, you're not going to get. into heaven.". And I went, "Ah, Grandma.". She goes, she goes, "Yes, you you know, you you you need to change your ways a. little bit.". And I said, "Yeah, well, you'll get me. into heaven. Don't worry about it." And. she said, "No." She said, "You're going.

to find out real soon.". Now listen, life is short even in its longest days. >> It certainly feels short when you look. back, right? >> Oh, yeah. But just think just think. about those words. >> coming from a hundred-y old woman. >> Yeah. >> You know, life is short even in its. longest days. Really the opposite end of. the spectrum. Oh yeah. Life goes on.

>> Right. Right. Right. Right. >> So I wrote a song called Life is Short. and and uh and I love playing it. I love. playing it. Uh because it it really hits. the nail on the head of of you know. getting But how old would you say you. were? >> 58. >> 58 years old. >> You're still a kid. [laughter]. >> You're still a kid. >> How old are you now? >> 74. >> Wow. Well, you look great. >> Thanks. Maybe we can go on a date.

tomorrow. [laughter]. >> Does is singing and performing is it. different now? Did do you appreciate it. more now when then when you were. younger? >> Uh. [clears throat] is it a different. feeling because like you've done so much. and it's. >> uh the scope of it is so big now in. retrospect. Well, like I said, I'm really looking. forward to going out and doing a. greatest hits tour. I've never done one.

I I I can't even imagine. thinking back to when I was like 35. That idea would be like, "Shut the [ __ ]. up. I'm not doing that.". >> Right. >> But now at my age, it's kind of like, and I I was I did a thing with Sean. Penn, and Sean and I were talking and he. goes, "John, just go do it." because I. was on the fence about doing it. He. goes, "What's wrong with you?" "Yes, go. do it. Don't you think that if I could.

like show the best parts of my movies to. people that I would do it?" And I go, "I. don't know." He goes, "Yeah, because it. it it's it. you're you you're really sharing. something.". >> Well, it's also not a whole lot of. people have ever done it before, right? Not a whole lot of people have ever had. the kind of hits that you've had. So the. opportunity to go out there and do two. and a half hours of [ __ ] hits. >> I know. >> is amazing. >> And as uh I have to like I said I walk.

in my house and I go I can't believe I. get to live here. >> and you know I feel good about you know. I'm the only father in the world that. does not encourage their kids to work. It's like what do you want to go to work. for? You [snorts] know, my son graduated. from Duke and it's just like, "Fuck that. work stuff. Do what you want to do. You're 31 years old. You're handsome. You're 31 years old. You could beat. anybody up in the room. You know.

what? Why do you want to?" But I think. he's getting to the age where he wants. to get a job. And I don't want him to. leave because he still lives in my on my. property. And it's nice. I love having. him in there. I love having HUD live. with me. Uh he doesn't live with me. He. lives in a different house, a different. building. And but I love having him there because. I know that I can pick up the phone and. go, "Hey, Hud." And he's there. And I'm.

telling you, having kids was one of the. best things I ever did. >> It's interesting, too, because having a. kid when you're in high school, a lot of. people think is like a death sentence. for your career, you know. Well, it was. a death sentence for my kid [laughter]. cuz, you know, I was 18 years old. I was. on drugs. You know, my idea of uh. raising a kid back then when I was in. college was throwing water balloons at. her. [laughter]. That's all I knew. It's like this is. fun, you know. But it turned out, you.

know, but uh yeah, I I I I uh I uh really enjoy my kids. And my dad told me that. He told me have. as many kids as you can because when you. get older, cuz see I had I don't know. about you, but I had. seven of my best friends die in 18. months. >> Wow. >> Yeah. because they couldn't get off the.

party. >> They just couldn't get off the party. because they were drunk all the time. I. mean, if you drank Crown Royal every. [ __ ] day. >> Yeah. >> It's going to [ __ ] up your liver. And. >> 100%. Yeah. >> And that's what they did. I mean, you. know, except Tim had a heart attack. Tim. White, the the guy I was telling you. about, he died on an elevator ride from in New. York from the ground floor to his.

office. And by the time he got up there, he was dead. >> Wow. >> But he would call me up every day and. go, "Man, my chest really hurts. My back. really hurts.". >> You know, and I would go, "Tim, your dad. died of at like 49 from heart disease. Don't you think you better go to the. doctor? I don't want to go. And that. that's what that's what most guys do. They don't want to go to the [ __ ]. doctor. >> Yep. Yeah. >> You know, but I do. [laughter]. >> I go.

>> Does the doctor tell you to stop. smoking? >> All the all the time. But see, here's. here's the thing about cigarettes. Find something you love. and let it kill you. [laughter]. Find something you love and let it kill. you. >> Yeah. I don't know.

It's not killing you yet. I mean, and I. just had a uh. I just had a uh. a heart mammogram and all that stuff. And the doctors go. because the heart is shaped like this, you know, like that. And then what. happens is is that as you longer you. smoke, it flattens out and that way it's. full of crap.

>> Mine's still like this. And he said last, and this is two years. ago, he said, "Well, I'd like to tell. you you need to quit smoking, but if. you've been smoking as long as I know. you have, uh, the only thing that's really. happened is is that your heart looks. like a teenagers and your voice sounds. black." So, [laughter]. do you think it's cuz you smoke American. spirits? I talked to a doctor that said. that to me. She Suzanne Humphrey, she. was like, I think that one of the things.

that's killing people is cigarettes with. all the additives in it. All the the. different chemicals that they put in. >> 120 chemicals. I. >> crazy. >> I. My girlfriend hates that I [ __ ]. smoke. Of course, she knew I was smoking. when she met me. But now that we've been. together for three years, uh, and my wife of 20 years, Elaine, never smoked a cigarette in her life. till she met me. And then she started. smok she on one hand just said, "Well,

[ __ ] it. If you can't beat them, join. them." So, she started smoking, but. Kristen hates cigarettes. And. I I don't know what to tell her cuz you. know that I don't do much good, but I'm. really a good smoker. [laughter]. Really good at it. >> What is it that you love about. cigarettes so much? >> They're part of me. I don't know how to put it. I mean, I.

smoked my first cigarette at 10. >> Wow. >> 10. >> 64 years of smoking. >> Yeah. >> That's crazy. >> I was And you're okay. >> I was addicted in high school. >> Wow. Wow. I used to wake up in the. morning and my parents had a great big. house and I would go down in the. basement, go into the [ __ ] storm. cellar and smoke, not knowing that I. came out of that little area smelling. like a cigarette ashtray,

>> right? >> And my parents, you know, was like, "Have you been smoking downstairs?". Yeah. But they never said anything. >> Well, maybe it's better than having the. stress of not smoking. One of the things about smoking, and I'm. not an advocate. I'm not telling people. they should smoke, but maybe one of the. things about it is that at least it. relaxes you. I think one of the worst. things for people is just stress. I was. talking about a friend of mine who's. going through something pretty heavy.

right now. And uh he's had a couple of. heart attacks and there's nothing wrong. with him. He's had heart attacks just. from stress where his [ __ ] arteries. just lock up. his whole body is just. locked up just from anxiety and stress. and he's had heart attacks because of. that. Doesn't smoke, doesn't drink, takes care of himself, and just the the. problems in his life are so. overwhelming. There's got to be there's. a benefit. There's got to be a benefit. to just relaxing, just enjoying.

something and relaxing and not having. that overwhelming stress. It's amazing. how much cigarettes take you away from. because you got to you know nowadays if. you're a cigarette smoker you you know. I'm lucky to be here with you that I. could smoke in your area but most people. would go outside. >> Yeah. >> But I'll tell you a funny story about. Johnny Cash and me. [clears throat]. John John I John and I knew each other.

and I would go down and and I would see. him in Jamaica and then he got really. sick. But John quit smoking and John and I did. um. did something for the Rock and Roll Hall. of Fame and this another funny story. Um, we were standing around doing. getting ready to do soundcheck and there.

was a whole bunch of people playing a. whole bunch of people. And the Eagles. were on soundchecking. and they were taking forever because Don. Henley is a perfectionist. Everything's. got to be just right. And I was standing with John in June and. John was getting irritated because we. were like 40 minutes, you know, we'd. been standing there ready to soundcheck. for 40 minutes.

So while we're standing there, I was. smoking and John goes, "You're going to. have to quit that smoking, John. It's. gonna catch up with you someday." I. said, "Well, you [ __ ] smoke." And he. goes, "Well, I used to, but I saw this. guy from London. and he. he got me to quit smoking." I go, "Maybe. I should see that guy." He goes, "Okay, yeah, I will. You will." Anyway, so so. anyway, we finally get on to soundcheck.

and John soundchecked without me uh. because I just sang one song with him. I and then when it came time to sound. check, I went, you know, John, you know, cuz. like he was irritated. Yeah. I don't. know if you knew Johnny Cash or not. He. had a [ __ ] temper. >> You know, you didn't [ __ ] with John. Cash. You just didn't. >> Anyway, I said, you know, John, uh, you know, I got this song. And we were.

doing Ring of Fire. I said, I know that. song. It's easy. He said, "You sure?". And I said, "Yeah, yeah, I got it. I got. it." He goes, "Okay, well, thanks.". Because, you know, I'm sick of [ __ ]. being here. So, the next night we get up there and. John and he introduces me to my friend. John Melam and. he started the song.

I fell into. I didn't realize that he had changed the. [ __ ] key from him smoking to a lower. key. So I couldn't hit the note cuz it was I. fell [groaning] into to I [screaming]. couldn't find a [ __ ] note because it. was not the note the song was written. in. I can sing right along with the song. >> and I look over there and there's Chuck.

Barry going. [laughter]. and I look over there and there's. Springsteen going and all these people. on the side of the stage, right? And. they're all giving me a look like, "You're [ __ ] up, man." It was like, "Yeah, I know it." And so anyway, as soon as the song was over, I ran off. stage. I was totally humiliated, right? So, I ran off stage and got to my. trailer. I I just get back there and all. of a sudden, knock on the door and I answer and it's.

John. He said, "Can I come in?" And I. go, "I don't know why you'd want to, but. yeah, come on in." He goes, "I told you we should have sound. jerked." Uh. [laughter]. anyway, so that conversation led on to I. know this guy. who will get you to quit smoking. And so. he gives me all the information. and me and two other guys fly this guy. over from London.

And um. Joe here was his. solution for not smoking. He gave me a. good talking too. That's it. That was. it. I was smoking on the way back to. Indiana. [laughter]. My friend Ron White's been smoking his. whole life and he just stopped and he. went to a hypnotist. Same hypn he he. quit drinking a few years back. Went to. a hypnotist, quit drinking easy. He said. it was so easy and then uh just recently.

like within last three or four weeks. quit smoking. He's almost 70. just said the hypnotist got him and said. now he doesn't have the desire. He goes. sometimes he goes after sex, he goes. after a meal. Sometimes I have like a. for a brief second. >> No, I don't have to worry about that. I'm too old for sex. [laughter]. I don't have to worry about that. anymore. >> Well, I guess Ron still gets after it. because after uh he said it's just a. brief second and then it goes away.

Well, I I'll tell you. Uh. I was friends with uh the Newman family. and Paul quit smoking and died. >> right afterwards. Was the smoking contributing to his. health problems? Yeah. >> And it was just like he was older. It. was like, you know, I mean, he was like. 80s. I don't know. Can you see how old. he was when he died? Uh anyway, so you know,

I just kind of went. >> find what you love and let it kill you. >> Yeah. Find what you love and let it kill. you. >> 83. >> Yeah. >> I [ __ ] love that guy. Hustler. One of. my favorite movies of all time. >> Well, I'm really good friends with. Joanne, who now is. I love Joanne. And uh once Paul died, I. became her boyfriend.

And uh she and I would talk all the time. on the phone. And whenever I was in New. York or [sighs]. or the town she lives in north of New. York, I' I'd take her to plays and we'd. go to plays and we'd do uh do stuff and. I'd pinch her on the ass and she. [laughter] she'd you know, she'd look at. me like. But then when she started c when I would. call her and she started calling me. Paul,

>> I would have to go Joanne, it's not. Paul, I'm John. Oh, >> and now she I still go see her all the. time. Not all the time, not as much as I. should, but she I can't remember the. name of the [ __ ] town she lives in. U. anyway, she she can't talk. She can't, you know, she has uh what do you call. it? >> Dementia. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And she can't talk. And she. >> she can, you know, I take my guitar and.

I'll play and sing for her. She. God. >> But you know, she's always happy to see. me. I think she realizes that it's me. Uh though I love her. I mean, uh she was. just. she was just great. She was a great. woman. How I met her was at a Democratic. thing for who was the guy that ran for. president? John. >> John Kerry.

>> John Kerry. And it was at Radio City and. I have a son named Hud. And Paul Newman. starred in the movie Hud. And so Newman. walked in. to my dressing room and goes, "I'm. looking for Hud Malanchamp.". And he was with me, but he was running. around Radio City somewhere. Have you. ever been to Radio City? >> Yes. >> Have you been backstage? >> There's all kind of [ __ ] going on. >> Yeah.

>> You can go anywhere in that place. Anyway, so Hud was running around there. and I just let him go wherever he wants. And I'm sitting there talking to Paul. and I go, "This is pretty cool." And. then Joanne walked in and was like, "All. right, Newman. Uh, hey, uh, cuz she was. beautiful. I mean, Joe, you cannot." She. must have been in her late 50s, something like that. She She was. gorgeous. It's like one of the prettiest. women I'd ever seen. and and uh so I.

just kind of like well it's nice meeting. you Paul hey Joanne [laughter]. and that's how we became friends and. even before he died her and I were. talking on the phone and yeah I I I love. Joanne I hope she lives forever but I. you know I know that people take care of. her and it's sad. >> it's just hard to see someone in a. deteriorated state like that as they get. older. >> well you know have you ever seen the. movie Uh.

uh. God, I can't think. The Fugitive. Kind. >> What is it? >> The Fugitive Kind. >> I don't think so. >> Rogan, you got to watch it. >> Yeah, >> it's great. You love it. >> Uh it's called The Fugitive Kind. It. stars Brando and Joanne Woodward. And it's just such a written by. Tennessee Williams. >> Oh, >> it's really really good. Really good. It's one of my favorite movies ever. made. The fugitive kind. >> I'll check it out.

>> Yeah. Yeah. And. I I know a lot about old movies because. I don't watch new movies. If it's not in. black and white, I'm not watching. >> Really? >> Yeah. I don't. >> Has it always been the case or is that a. new thing? >> No, it's always been the Really? >> Yeah. I. my girlfriend Kristen will talk to me, you know that actor, and I'll go, "No, [laughter]. I don't I don't know anybody in the in. the entertainment business anymore. except guys my age, you know.".

>> That's probably a good thing. >> But I don't know any of them, you know. I know Shawn, you know, but I I've known. Sean since he was a kid before Ridgemont. High. >> Oh, wow. >> That's how long I've known that guy. Wow, that was a [ __ ] great movie. >> Yeah, it was. >> They can't make a comedy like that. anymore. >> Oh, no. They couldn't even get it. They. wouldn't make it again. >> Not a chance. Not a chance at all. That's the thing with political. correctness and then the woke movement.

That's the thing that really died was. the great comedy movies, the. inappropriate. >> Well, you answer me this question. >> Yeah. >> Why did anybody give a [ __ ] anyway? I. mean, you know, 86 and what was the. senator? Uh the guy the comedian that. wrote for Saturday Night Live who was. the same. >> Franken. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I had said [ __ ] you guys. >> Yeah. Should have. Yeah. >> Yeah. I mean why why did he let some. >> I don't know. The climate got crazy.

People lost their [ __ ] minds and I. think it's kind of turned around and. people are kind of recognizing that it. was a massive overcorrection. >> It was. But uh the problem is the comedy. films like if you go back and watch you. know like Tropical Thunder or any of. those kind of crazy movies that were. like really outrageous and funny like. you know you can't make them today. Nobody wants to fund them and finance. them. Nobody wants the heat. Nobody. wants to deal with the criticism. They. they've essentially killed comedy m.

movies. >> Well and that's what I was asking you. How is how's doing standup? >> You can't kill standup. The problem is. standup is like people will come to see. you and that's all that matters. People. come to see you and they laugh. That's. all that matters. Like the critics don't. matter. >> Well, who who who's your favorite. stand-up comedian now. >> alive? There's so many good ones right. now. I mean, Chappelle's probably the. greatest if one of the greatest of all. time and we're lucky we have him alive. now. But, uh, you know, Bill Burr is. great. Shane Gillis, there's it's an.

amazing time for standup. David Tell is. probably like the most unheralded great. comic that's alive today. There's so. many great comedy, so many great. comedians now because. >> what about Jim Jeff? >> Jim Jeff is funny. >> There's I mean new Australian guy. There's um you know more comics now that. are huge than I think have ever been. alive in the history of comedy because. of YouTube and in Instagram and.

definitely Netflix because there's just. more comedy to see. There's more comedy. to to go watch. There's more comics. right now are selling out arenas than. ever in the history of standup comedy. >> Yeah, I've I've seen it on television. You just can't worry about what the. haters think. You can't worry about. that. You just got to just do what you. think is funny and what you think the. audience is going to think is funny and. work real hard at it. That's all you. have to do. And just don't pay attention. to the criticism. If you do, it'll kill.

you. >> The best standup. comedian movie I ever saw was the first. Richard Prior. >> Oh, Live on the Sunset Strip changed my. life. >> Well, that. >> changed my life. >> That was the third one. was it? >> Yeah. >> So, Wanted was before that, right? >> Yeah. And that took place in New. Orleans. >> Okay. There was one he filmed in Long. Beach. >> That is the one I'm talking about. >> Phenomenal. Phenomenal. >> Unbelievable. >> Phenomenal. Unbelievable.

>> And while he's getting on stage, people. are still coming in and sitting down. >> I know. >> He's [ __ ] with people as they're. coming in, sitting down. I don't think. he had an opening act. I think he just. came. >> No, he did. He had Yeah, he had uh what. what's the woman's name? The singer. Uh, >> oh, he had a musical opening act. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> Um, I can't remember who it was, but he. thanked him. He thanked her. >> Oh, okay. >> But I saw that in like 19 whatever year. it was, 79 when it came out. And I was.

in Florida. and I had to go into. the black part of Miami to see it. And I. took a couple guys in my band with me. And this one guy named Ferd in my band. was just an idiot. We walk in there and there's nothing but. black people. So I'm okay. Except Ferd walks in like. this.

And I go, "What the [ __ ] are you doing? What the fuck?". >> He walked in grabbing his dick. >> Yeah. >> [laughter]. >> cuz he wanted to show them that he was. uh. >> Patty Lel. Yeah, that's who opened up. >> There it is. >> Nice. >> Yeah. So, anyway, he's grabbing his. dick, walking in, and I'm looking. I'm. going, >> are you out of your [ __ ] mind? Stop. Stop doing that. >> My parents took me to see Live in the. Sunset Strip when I was a kid. I was in.

high school and I guess I was like 15 at. the time, something like that. And uh I. remember looking around at all the. people laughing and I couldn't believe. how funny it was. I couldn't believe how. funny it was. I couldn't believe that. this guy could just be on stage talking. and it would be that funny. But I had. seen all these comedy movies that were. really funny, but nothing never made me. laugh as hard as this one man on stage. talking. I'll never forget it. I was. little. I was like looking around the. crowd and people were just falling out.

of their seats, laughing, slapping each. other. Couldn't couldn't believe how. funny it was. >> Well, you know the backstory on that on. that. >> What's the backstory? >> The backstory was that was take two. >> Oh, yeah. He bombed the first one. Yeah. >> Well, he for whatever reason. >> Yeah, I did hear that. >> He decided to do the show backwards. >> Oh, wow. So he started with, you know, how he ended and was going to work his.

way forward. And I don't know why he did. that, but apparently people that that. knew him told me that he would always do. [ __ ] like that. >> Well, he was creative. I had heard that. he was working it out at the comedy. store and then he would come in on a. Monday night and it was bombing and then. by Friday night he was destroying with. the same material. He just figured out a. way to tweak it, you know. That was back. when he was working with Paul Mooney. Paul Mooney was one of his writers who. was a guy that I knew really well. I. worked with him at the comedy store and. so Mooney and him would just figure out. what the beats were. And.

>> so did you play the comedy store a lot? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That was my home club. in LA. >> And how did you go down? >> I got in I I auditioned in 1994, you. know. I came from LA I came from New. York rather to LA uh to do a sitcom and. I didn't really give a [ __ ] about the. sitcom. That wasn't really that. important to me. I I was only doing it. for money, but while I was there, I was. like, "God, I got to go to the comedy. store." Because that when I lived in uh. Boston, when I first started standup in. ' 88, they would talk about the comedy.

store like it was a religious. experience. It was like Mecca because. this was after Sam Kenisonson had made. it. Of course, Richard Prior had come. from there, Bill Hicks had come from. there, David Letterman, so many people. had come from there, Robin Williams. And. so they just talked about it with like. hush tones like, "Man, you got to get to. the comedy store." It was like a. pilgrimage, like you had to get there. And I got there in '94 and never left, you know, until the pandemic. >> Yeah. I was friends with Letterman. because he's from Indianapolis.

>> and uh his mom used to come down to my. house in Bloomington and we'd have his. mom and his stepdad would come down and. have dinner with me at my house. And so. Letterman, I I I did a couple things on. Letterman where I cooked a cake with his. mom [laughter] in Indianapolis and. brought the cake to David for his. birthday. And I I I like I like. Letterman. He was He's always been nice.

to me. And his mom told me a story. I. don't know if it's true or not, but I. had just released my first album and. David was still doing. the weather. locally in in Indianapolis. >> Oh wow. >> And he said to his mom, "If that kid can. go out and do it, I can too.". >> Oh wow. >> That's what his mom said. So I don't. know if that's true or not. His mom told. me that. I never asked Dave about it.

>> You shouldn't even ask. Let it live in. legend. [laughter]. >> Yeah, I I like the story. >> John, thank you so much, man. This was a. lot of fun. It was a real pleasure. meeting you. I really enjoyed it, man. And I've been a big fan of yours for. years, so this was a it was a real treat. for me. >> Great. I'm glad I'm glad to be here. And. I hope you come and see me play. >> I would love to. I definitely will. >> Yeah. >> Is your tours on your website? Is it. >> I. >> Johnmelancamp.com or something like. that? >> I don't know. [laughter]. >> We'll find it. We'll find it. >> Yeah. I don't I don't know. >> We'll find it. Thank you. Thank you very.

much. It was really fun. Thank you. All. right. >> And you're going to hate those [ __ ]. tattoos. >> Nope. I don't think so. I like them. >> Yeah. I thought I like mine, too. [laughter]. >> I thought I like mine, too. [music]. >> Bye, everybody. [music].