Joe Rogan Experience #2428 - Michael P. Masters

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. All day. >> Yeah. >> Disclosure day. Very interesting. >> Yeah. I'm excited for him. >> Yeah. He was always like way ahead of. the curve when it comes to the whole UAP. UFO stuff, you know, with Close. Encounters of the Third Kind. He had.

that French scientist that was. essentially modeled after. >> Jacqu Valet. >> He's always been I I would love to talk. to him. I wonder how much he knows. >> Is that an [laughter] accident? Was he. uh fed some information? Was he a part. of disclosure the whole time? That's. what I've always wondered. >> I mean, what does that mean, right? because there hasn't really been. disclosure. >> No, but it has to be a slow process too, right? >> You think so? >> I don't think I mean the whole idea is. that they're just sort of normalizing.

it, right? >> Uh neural linguistic programming they. call it where you're slowly getting. people accustomed to these ideas like. the the aspects of Close Encounters for. instance where you have the radiation. burns on the guy's face. you have a time. travel component where these uh World. War II soldiers get out of the craft. with the little beans and the bigger. being. And I mean just just seeding. seeding our culture with those little. bits of information that might help. later on down the line. >> That was like in the 70s, wasn't it? Like when was Close Encounters? >> Uh yeah, I think it was the 70s.

>> Late 70s, early 80s maybe. Um, either. way, I mean, like a lot of stuff he's. done, like I I rewatched the. >> go, what was it? Jeff Bridg's Star Man. I think there's a lot of elements of. disclosure in that, too. Like, I think. there's just. >> I don't know. I mean, obviously, we. don't know who's pulling the strings. We. don't know what's going on. We don't. know who's in charge. But, it does make. sense that if there is this thing that. they know about that we're supposed to. know about, leak it out. Do it slowly.

Get in our culture. get it in our our. our media in different ways. >> You know the how put off story right. with George Bush? >> Do you know a story where they were. talking about Okay. Hal talked about it. on my podcast, but he also talked about. it in the age of disclosure documentary. where they brought in him and a bunch of. different prominent thinkers. >> Yeah, I watched that episode and I. watched um the do. >> So to people that don't know, I'll just. explain it. So they brought in him and a. bunch of other prominent thinkers and. they had they they sat them down and.

said essentially we have recovered. crashed UFOs. We have biological remains. of these creatures. Uh we are. considering releasing it to the public. and we want to make an assessment of. what are the pros and what are the cons. So we want to assign a numerical value. that you know you're estimating what. kind of an impact it would be on uh. government, finances, religion, etc. >> About whether they should do it. basically, right? >> Whether or not they should release this.

information and all of the people that. were brought in came to the agreement. that there was more con than there were. pro and that formed their decision to. not release it. >> And didn't he say at first like he was. pro disclosure? He was like, "Of course. we should do this." And then after the. conversation, he switched teams. And. >> yeah, I don't know about that. Maybe, perhaps. I mean, >> said that he he went into it thinking, well, yeah, obviously we should do this. >> And then sort of was convinced otherwise. after the conversation unfolded. >> Yeah. How could you be convinced? Like.

whose decision should it be? If some. people know, everyone should know. >> It's a humanity decision. It's I don't. think it should be in anybody's h in. anybody's hands. >> to decide whether or not this. information gets distributed. And the. implications too if they have zero point. energy like how would that solve the. problems that we face today? There's so. many ramifications of it that. >> yeah who whose decision is it and why. has it been kept from us? I I don't I. don't buy that whole like Orson Wells. 1938 everybody freak out [ __ ] I.

don't I I don't think that's the case. At least not anymore. There's got to be. something more to it than that. >> It would certainly have I don't know if. they factor this in but a uniting. element. Like you remember the Reagan. speech we gave in front of the United. Nations where he said imagine how united. we would be. We'd forget our differences. if we were faced with an alien threat. from another world. >> I mean just knowing that we are alli I. mean we How old are you? >> Uh 47. >> Okay. So you remember September 11th?

>> Mhm. One of one of the things that. happened after September 11th was there. was it was a horrible tragedy but there. was a beautiful result temporarily where. everybody was rei united like really. united like there was American flags in. everybody's car in Los Angeles you know. like the most ridiculous progressive. sort of kind of. >> you know kind of [ __ ] up place but. everybody became patriotic and in New. York everyone was friendly I mean people. were smiling and saying hi to each other. on the streets we had all decided that.

we were together and that we were faced. with a real threat and that we had to be. united. And. >> I remember it well. Yeah, you're right. And then not to get too weird too fast. here, but if there are aspects of sort. of an all-encompassing consciousness. that unites us associated with UFO. phenomenon, too. If we recognize that we. are just fingerprints on the same hand, we're all iterations of the same. overarching consciousness. if seemingly. there is a part of that in the UFO.

phenomenon. So, how would that unite us. as well? Even beyond the threat from. outside, like if we did start to. understand that we're all part of the. same sort of cosmic community. Um, sounds kind of weird to say that. >> It does sound weird, but have you seen. the Apple show Plurbus? >> No. It comes up a lot. Worth watching. >> It's really good. It's really good. It's. very, very original, very unique, but. that is essentially what happens. and it. has a negative aspect to it. >> There's a virus. >> I don't want to give away too much of it.

for people that want to watch the show. because it's a really good show, but. there's a virus that they get a signal. from another world and they figure out. what this signal is and through this lab. work they reveal that this signal is. some sort of the encoding of a specific. virus. They work on this specific virus. It spreads and the entire planet becomes. one consciousness except [clears throat].

for a small number of people. >> Interesting. >> It's a weird show. It's a really good. show. I'm I don't want to explain any. more of it like that without any spoiler. alerts, but it's [ __ ] great. >> But it's strange. It's like, wouldn't. that be better? There's no crime. There's no this. There's no that. But. and then it reveals all the problems. that come along with that. >> Yeah. I'm gonna have to watch that as a. counterpoint if anything else because it. it makes sense to me that if everyone's. kind of united as one. >> Yeah. >> uh super organism of sorts, but.

>> but you lose all individuality. You lose. all the fun parts about being an. imperfect person because we are an. imperfect species. But that's also what. makes great art. That's what makes great. music. >> It's what makes great fun. >> Most creative people have the most. trauma in their past from what I've. seen. And if you have zero trauma, you. probably have sucky art. [laughter]. >> It's just stick figures and [ __ ]. >> I mean, I wonder why would be I mean, if. they would even have a need for it. I. mean, it's. >> because it's an expression. It's getting.

your angry out, >> right? Or your angst or your anxiety or. depression, whatever it is, you're. you're getting something out. >> I was telling my son that the other day. Obvious name. He's. >> You know, it's hard being in these. bodies, especially going through. puberty. You know, you're just like, what is [clears throat] this thing I'm. carrying? this little meat suit, you. know, and and I was like, man, I I was. the same way. Still am the same way. And. I I picked up instruments. I started. painting. I learned to play every sport. I could physically play. Like, there's. ways to get that out, you know, but it.

seems like a lot of that does come from. just the anxiety and the ang and, you. know, you're growing into yourself. You're starting to get the feels, you. know, you look at women differently and. it's like, >> what do I do with this? >> Well, it re changes. It rewires the. entire way you view the world. >> And meanwhile, your body is physically. changing and growing. You're like, "What. am I going to look like eventually? This. is weird. It's so [laughter] weird." You. know, there's actually this uh in a. small island in the Pacific. They have. this weird um characteristic where they.

start out as females. Everybody does. We. all start out as females and utro and. then maleness is imposed on the. developing fetus. But they they don't. until puberty cuz they they're not. sensitive to dihydrotestosterone, the. precursor to testosterone. So they grow. up their entire life as girls and then. at puberty they turn into a boy. >> So they get raised as girls. >> They are girls. They're physically. penises. Not yet. Nope. >> What is this planet? I mean this. [laughter] is an island.

>> It's an island in the South Pacific. It's called pseudoh hermaphroditism. Weird. I know. I learned about this in. grad school. I was like they look like. girls. What? >> Exactly like girls. They are girls. And. then the ovaries descend as testicles. and the clitoris grows out into a penis. >> Wow. >> So you think puberty is hard enough. already? These people turn into the. opposite sex at age like 12 or 13. It's. wild, man. >> So is this a bizarre genetic anomaly? Is. it something to do with the. >> Yeah. So a lot of times on islands you. get like really strange characteristics.

of people because of the isolation that. and those characteristics get selected. just through genetic drift alone because. it's a small population. So just. probably one person had this really. weird trait where they're insensitive to. dihydrotestosterone and then it spread. throughout more of the population. >> It doesn't do anything. It's not. something natural selection would select. against. It's just weird as [ __ ]. >> What is the name of this island? >> Uh I don't remember the name of the. island, but the conditions called um. >> find it. >> I think it's Malo Island and Vanadoo or. something. >> That sounds Oh yeah.

>> How many people are on that island? >> This says there's a population in 1979. of 2,300 people. >> Yeah. And think historically, >> two different kinds of people there or. something. It says too different kinds. of people, >> two cultural groups. >> Isn't that wild though, man? I remember. hearing about that in grad school at. Ohio State. And I was just like, I'm. sorry, what? [laughter]. >> So strange. >> You just say, >> I'm sure you've seen those people, the. ostrich feet people in Africa. >> Uh-uh. It's a very strange genetic. anomaly where they don't grow toes. They. essentially have two very wide.

appendages. >> Weird. Yeah, they look it looks like an. like a like a weird birdfoot. >> Huh. >> It's very strange. But a bunch of people. in this particular tribe share this. trait. >> Is there any advantage or it's just it's. like this where it just kind of happened. and. >> Yeah. I don't know. I don't know. I mean. I don't know what advantage there would. be. Maybe it's it's. >> maybe it's really sexy to them. [laughter]. >> Maybe you could move better with it. I. don't know. It's it's that's what they. look like. >> Whoa.

>> Yeah. >> I don't know how I haven't seen that. That's wild. >> I know. Isn't that crazy? >> I mean, it is kind of sexy. >> Um, if that's what you're into, dog. [laughter] How long that's been going on. for? VOMA. >> See, that seems like more of like a. defect that just work toward fixity in. the population. Maybe not, >> but it just makes you wonder like why. don't we, it's in Zimbabwe apparently. Why don't we all have that? You know, like what is what is the reason why we. have all these toes that it's called.

electrodactyl? Yeah. Electrodactally. I mean, historically, prehistorically, evolutionarily, I should say, if you did. have something like that and you were a. hunter gatherer, you're kind of boned. You know, you're not going to be able to. run after gazels. >> I don't know. Maybe you can. Says their. feet are well adapted to the Zimbabzies. Oh, Zambazi, not Zimbabwe. Zambazi. valleys, rough terrain, allowing them to. move quickly and efficiently through the. landscape.

>> All right, I take it back. I guess. >> it kind of makes sense, right? Because. what what it's saying is that their. their bones are fused. If you scroll up, it'll say condition affecting ostrich. footed tribe. A genetic mutation passed. down through generations causes the. bones in the feet to fuse, resulting in. a claw-like structure with two large. toes. Toes are very vulnerable. I don't. know if you've ever broken a toe, but. >> I broke one an hour before I got on the. plane to come here. >> Really? >> If you can see my left foot. >> Oh, that's hilarious. >> That's ridiculous. Like the whole thing. is just purple. >> Yeah, they're so small. Like my pinky.

toe. I was messing around with my pinky. toe the other day cuz I I have to trim. my toenails, right? And the pinky toe is. like barely a nail. It's so tiny. And. I'm like, "God, this little thing is so. vulnerable and it has to support my. entire body weight or part of my entire. body weight.". >> Yeah, they're so dumb. Oh yeah, I don't. know if you can see that. It's all. >> your foot's jacked. >> Yeah, dude. That was like right before I. was coming down here. I'm like, you. kidding me? >> That sucks. >> That Yeah, I've broken a bunch of toes. It's It's very very annoying. And you.

would imagine if you had two giant. [ __ ] elbow bones down there instead. of these. >> [ __ ] ass little toesies. >> I know. Maybe that's why they did it. Maybe that's what they got going on. >> Kind of makes sense that that would be. an adaptation. >> Invincible feet. >> Yeah. Well, you know, we're we're so. vulnerable. We're and that's one of the. weirder things like so first we should. we get into what you do uh because you. have uh you have a very interesting. theory. Tell everybody what your. background is first of all. >> Yeah. All right. That does seem like a. good place to start. Um.

my background is in anthropology, biological anthropology. Um my research mostly focuses on. evolutionary anatomy, biio medicine. I've done some archaeology various. places around the world and Montana. But. the reason I'm here, I assume, cuz. according to my friend Matt, we were uh. we were butchering a a mule deer, I. think I shot. And I was like, "Yeah, I. got to go to this conference." And I was. like, "Do you want to know what it's. about?" He's like, "Nobody gives a [ __ ].

about what you do other than UFOs, [laughter] man." I was like, "Damn it, he's right." Like I did actually used to. do a lot of what I thought was cool. stuff. But no, the the main thing is. that I've I've become known for. advocating for this idea that UFOs uh. and the aliens are actually our. timetraveling future human descendants. I wouldn't even say as opposed to. extraterrestrials because I do think. that's a component too. I oftentimes get. pigeon holed. People are like, "Oh, you. just think they're all time travelers.".

I don't. I actually say this all the. time, but it doesn't matter. Uh I do. think there's a lot going on. But but my. background and and the reason I approach. this question this way is because. there's a lot of characteristics of. these aliens that look so homminin. They. look just like us and specifically what. we'd expect to see in our homminin. future if the same evolutionary trends. continue into the future. So I kind of. just tie those things together and even. the the saucer shaped craft seemingly. are time machines themselves. So that's.

kind of the cliffnotes version. Well, it's a theory that a lot of people have. independently sort of come to, right? >> Yeah. Especially recently. >> And the the concept of Well, just if you. just think about ancient man, I was. watching this uh documentary on. Neanderthalss last night about this one. uh intact Neanderthal uh skeleton that. they found that was it had uh sort of. been. it he had died in a cave and you know. there's stellagmites. is stalactites or.

mites. How do you say it? >> Tites are up, mites are down. >> So, he was essentially mineralized. There was stuff all over the body and it. took a long time for them to break this. body. >> I think I saw that. Was that on Netflix? >> No, I was watching it on YouTube. Maybe. originally it was on Netflix, but it was. just documenting how strange this this. body was that they had found, but it was. immensely strong, like much stronger. than us. One of the interesting things. was that their visual cortex um the the. the part of the brain that would process.

v imagery was larger than ours. 10 to. 20% larger. >> Yeah. >> And that the so these things probably. had better eyesight than us perhaps even. were able to see at night. >> And that this was a bigger stronger. version of a human being like much more. durable than what we are modern 2025. homo sapiens. Y. >> if you just look Yeah, that's it. So. that's one of them. >> Neither human nor Neanderl. >> Oh, really? >> This is a published.

>> Is this the same? This might not be the. same one. This is maybe a different one. That's a weird one because what's that. [ __ ] thing on its head? >> That's what it says. It's a stagactite. growing out of it or something. >> Wow. In a weird form. Weird. >> Yeah, it's like a unicorn. >> Yeah, like a crest. >> They do uh they do have a sagittal. ridge. >> Yes. >> Um Homo Homo erectus had one. Well, there's an offshoot in in our homminid. lineage called the paranthropus or. robust orolopithesines and they had a. full-on like gorilla style really.

>> sagittal ridge. Yeah, cuz they were a. vegetarian so they just chewed all day, >> right? So they had massive muscles to. chew. >> Yeah. Their whole face is huge. >> Wow. >> Neanderls uh kind of I mean they were. just big. It's just a robusticity thing. But there is uh evidence from Shannidar. cave in uh Iraq where they were using. their teeth as tools. We think they were. like tanning hides. They were holding. the hide in their mouth and then like. scraping all the nasty bits off. >> Oh, >> and you can see that in the tooth wear. So, yeah, they were they were pretty. badass. They were the first I don't.

know. I think this is cool, but a lot of. people think I'm a nerd, too. Um, they. were the [laughter] first to to use the. flake. Like, for 2.8 million years, we. just hit a piece of rock and like, "Oh, this cool tool." But then they figured. out uh that if you hit the rock in just. the right way, the piece that falls off. makes an even better tool. It took us. like 2.5 exactly make an arrow head. >> And from that point on, like I I got to. work at a place called Shapino Jeanzac. in southern France. >> for a summer and it was an interl site.

And we found these actually it's pretty. funny because when we first got there. these these tools called MTA handaxes, Musteri and it was Shulian tradition. handaxes. There were only eight found in. all of Europe and they said if you guys. find one of these we'll buy you all the. beer and all the conac you can drink. So. we're in the cognac region of France and. we found one like the fourth or fifth. day. We went on to find seven more over. the course of that week. We doubled the. number of these things in existence. >> Wow. >> In all of Europe and they were not.

lying. They bought [laughter] us so many. damn beers. Like archaeologists like to. drink, you know. We we dig and it's. boring as hell. you know, it's not. Indiana Jones. We're not running around. banging hot chicks and flying on planes. We're like, we got a spoon and we're. doing this for eight hours. So, uh, yeah, I actually found the last one on. the last day and it was by far the worst. one. Like, I had to argue that this is. even it should even count as one of. these. >> Um, but yeah, no, it was it was a cool. site. Um, so yeah, they were they they.

were doing well, but we were doing. better. We came in and replaced them. >> Something happened where we replaced. them. >> This is an ad for Better Help. The. holidays come with a lot of traditions. Gathering with family, cooking those. once a year recipes, and leaning into. the little rituals that bring everyone. together. That's something I always look. forward to. But there's another. tradition I think we should all start. doing during the holidays, and that's. taking some time for ourselves. This. season, you do so many things for the. other people in your life. You plan gets.

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existed. >> Oh, for sure. Yeah. And we're we're the. most feeble versions of people that have. existed within the last century, right? Like if you go back to humans from the. 1920s versus humans from the 2020s, people have way less testosterone now, way or higher instances of miscarriages, way lower sperm count. You know, there's. a lot of factors that are at play right. now that are changing what a human is. And if you extrapolate, if you look at. the future, you would naturally say,

well, we're probably going to be very. thin. It seems like there's at least. some sort of a push to eliminate gender. Like gender seems like it's on the table. is whether or not it's even necessary. There's all sorts of new technological. innovations that are leading to the. possibility at least sometime in the. future of an artificial womb. Mhm. >> Um there's genetic engineering with. crisper and a lot of other different. technologies that are being explored. that we might be able to engineer human.

beings and then even create a complete. individual human being without a mother, without a father. So if you thought. about what that looks like in the. future, like one of our problems on in. this planet is we all have different. ideologies, different religions, come. from different parts of the world. We. look different and human beings as. tribal primates have a tendency to. other. We other different tribes. Those. are not us. We are us. Those are the.

enemy. We go out. >> You rally around it. >> But if everybody's exactly the same and. we share one mind, >> you know, then a lot of our problems go. away. If we no longer have to compete. for resources, we no longer have the. desire to procreate and to acquire land. and to be, you know, to have. a territory, we we eliminate a lot of. our issues. And that's what these things. look like. When you look at the. archetypal these I iconic sort of shapes.

that have been on cave walls all the way. up to close encounters with the third. kind. One thing they share is that they. have no muscle. They have large heads. They have big eyes. >> and they're childlike. They're very. pomorphic as we say. >> Yeah. You just tied together like a lot. of really important points um related to. this theory. uh aspects of why they're. always interested in our gametes, why. they come back and put that little. machine on a man to collect semen, why.

they're constantly taking eggs from. females and implanting fetuses, pulling. them back out later. Like, they're. clearly focused on reproduction, game. extraction. And one of the things that. might be fueling that in the future, if. these are future humans, let's just. assume for a second hypothetically, is. that they might be having problems. directly resulting from these trends. toward self-domemestication, these. trends toward feminization, these trends. toward reduced sperm counts, which is.

60% across most populations of the world. in the industrialized world, 50% across. the entire world. Um, yeah, problems. with reproduction, uh, in vitro. fertilization, exogenesis chambers might. help solve some of those problems, growing the the fetus outside of the. body. So, so yeah, and and like you. said, you know, what do they look like? They look like kind of a. a hybrid between males and females to. some extent, but they're still an. essence of gender. Like if you talk to.

Whitley Strieber, you know, he's with. this bean, he he says in communion that. I had a sense that she was a woman. I. don't know why, but I kind of sensed. that. So, it's almost like the the. essence of the individual, the soul of. the individual still retains that sort. of gender identity even though our. bodies are becoming more childlike, more. gender indiscriminate. Uh, I don't know. But yeah, yet another one of those ways. in which we might sort of grow together. as a species. >> Now, when you say they are extracting.

sperm, like how many of these stories do. you. take seriously. There's a lot of these. stories. >> It's a great question. Yeah. >> You know, there's unfortunately for any. sort of spectacular. public thing that's in the zeitgeist. like alien abduction, whether it's. Whitley Strieber from Communion or the. John Mack books, uh the guy from Harvard. that wrote um what was it? Abduction, >> Passport to the Cosmos and Abduction. Yeah, two great books.

>> Great books. But these are all books. about encounters, close encounters of. the third kind with some sort of a being. from another place. Whatever it is, it's. just not a human being. And it seems to. be techn technologically at least. superior to us. And it seems to be one. thing they all seem to share is they. seem to be able to communicate. telekinetically or telepathically. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And I mean they they aren't human, but they are very human too. So for. instance like that that's one of the.

main reasons I started exploring this. I. was actually kind of put into this when. I was eight or nine years old. Sort of. activated in a way and put on this path. by a weird thing that happened to me. when I was you. >> Well so I talk about it in my first two. books Identified flying objects and the. extraterrestrial model where my I. learned about um a close encounter that. my dad had. who's a veterinarian in. northeast Ohio where I grew up and he. was out one night on a call uh with.

another guy. So there's two people as. far as jail and reliability scale has. more reliability because there's. multiple witnesses. It's also strange on. his scale because they crested the hill. There's a bright light. This is Amish. country. There's no lights in Amish. country. And all of a sudden, this. bright light darts toward them, hovers. just above their truck, darts back to. where it was, and straight up into space. like incredible speed. So, this happened. before I was born, but I overheard him. telling a story to some friends one. night. He got Whitley Striber's book,

Communion, as most people did in the. 1980s, and as they should, because it's. a great book. And I walked into the. living room. The book is sitting on the. shelf facing out. And I remember like it. was yesterday. I sort of stopped and. there was like this light like a white. light and then I saw this image in my. mind of like uh an early homin and. chimpanzeee like creature a modern human. and then that archetypal gray alien from. the cover with this information what if. they're related what if they are us from.

the future and obviously I mean that's. why I became a biological anthropologist. people are always like so. >> you saw this. >> yeah it was like a a flash like a light. and I you know It's weird looking back. on it because I know a lot more about. these experiences. I've talked to people. that have had these types of. experiences. >> What was the setting? >> It was our living room. So, it was like. the you come in the front door and just. to the left there's this living room, built-in bookshelf, Willy's books right. there. I just turned the corner, saw it, and then like.

just kind of it just came. Like I didn't. know [ __ ] about evolutionary biology. I. didn't. >> saw it. saw it how. >> in my mind just this white light. >> just an image. >> and those that image of the three faces. and then the question could they be us. from the future. >> and a lot of people are like how'd you. get into UFOs like you're you're a. biological anthropologist it's the. opposite I got into biological. anthropology to research this question. of whether they could be us from the. future. >> huh. so so this you you felt like at that.

moment it wasn't just like a a weird. thought or a dream. It felt like a. message like what did it feel like? >> Yeah. Yeah. It it was some it was a. tasking, you know. I I think Rupert. Sheldrake said it that that people don't. have ideas. Ideas have people. >> I think that was like the hey, go do. this thing. >> And I did. That's why we're here now. [laughter] talking about it. >> And obviously, you know, you got to be. careful about like selection bias and.

confirmation bias. Like I didn't go into. this. I didn't go into grad school. I. also didn't tell anybody in grad school. I was there cuz they would have kicked. me out. Um, but I went into it with an. open mind. But I was there to study. these things because of that event when. I was 8 years old. >> Wow. Yeah, it's it is a problem the. confirmation bias. It is a problem with. >> wanting it to be real. And I struggle. with that because I desperately want it. to be real. And so every time I talk to.

someone, you know, I've talked to a. bunch of people that are, you know, air. quote whistleblowers. And some of them, I think, for sure, have been sent in. here to distribute this information. >> Yeah. No doubt. >> For sure. Because it's a great place to. do it. >> Yeah. >> I'll listen to you. I'll entertain. almost anything, >> which is great. We need that. Yeah. >> You know, but yeah, I mean, obviously. there's people that are going to take. advantage of it. >> But I think it's also important for me. to say I'm not convinced. I you know I. don't know how much of this is horseshit. but it's not zero.

>> No and that was your question is how how. do I. >> differentiate among these different. cases. >> Um I do draw from Heinik's in his book. the UFO experience. He lists out how we. all should approach this based on the. reliability scale and the stranges. scale. Um, Jacques Valet also drew from. that, helped him develop it as part of. the invisible college and all of his. work. But regardless of like my own. personal discernment, my second book,

the extraterrestrial model, is about 30. case studies, 15 main case studies, but. then I pull in other ones and it. explores the different theories. Obviously the main one being this extra. tempestrial idea, this future, which by. the way, I saw the word of the day today. was anacronistic. And I was like, man, that would have been a way better word. than extra tempest, which everybody. struggles with. I could have called them. anacronauts. >> Oo, >> doesn't that sound cool? >> That does sound cool. >> Anacronauts. >> Oo, that sounds really cool. >> I know. What the hell was I thinking,

man? >> Anyway, live you learn. But so one of. the most commonly reported things across. all cases, regardless of whether you. think it's [ __ ] or you think this. definitely happened, is they really want. our sperm. >> They really need or want our. reproductive material, our gametes. And. it's funny cuz I when I wrote my first. book in 20 I started in 2012, published. it in 2019. Right at the end I did an. interview and somebody's like, "Have you. heard of Jim Penniston?" I'm like, "No.". Which is kind of a failing on my behalf.

I'll admit that one. Uh it turns out so. it was the Rend Rendlessham Forest. incident. He touched this craft. He got. this binary code and he uh when. deciphering the binary code, they. legitimately specifically said, "We are. you from the future. We're having. problems with reproduction." He. underwent hypnotic regression. We're. having problems with reproduction and we. need this genetic material to help. ourselves. You know, a lot of people are. like, "Well, why are they coming back. and doing stuff to us?" I think they're.

coming back and getting stuff from us. because of problems they're having. largely related to what you were talking. about earlier with um the reduced sperm. counts, the problems with female. infertility. What if we do try to create. the perfect human specimen or we try to. cure these genetic diseases through. genetic manipulation crisper and we. screw something up? We might have to. come back. We can't go to another. planet. There aren't people on these. planets. We can't go and sample gametes. from these other places. We might have. to go into our past to get those wild.

type un uh unmanipulated gameamtes in. order to fix these problems. >> God, that's that's a crazy level of. technological sophistication. The. ability to venture back in time and. somehow or another not [ __ ] up the. timeline that's leading to I mean, this. is the problem that's always been. theorized about time travel. anything. that you do if you went back in time any. interactions you would completely change. how the future would play out.

>> in the many worlds interpretation. Yeah. >> So that idea is unfortunately very. pervasive and mostly because of back to. the future which I think ruined the. brains of most people mine too certainly. in my my my generation. Um but what most. phys and physicists don't agree on many. things but most agree that we live in. what's called a block universe landscape. time block time where if you imagine all. moments from the very beginning of the.

big bang to the end of the universe. where all matter disappear appears into. like a black hole or contracts or. whatever it does. All moments are. already there. They exist as this. massive four-dimensional block of all. moments, all world lines, everything. So. you go back into the past as you. perceive it. You can do whatever you. want. You can walk around, step on. butterflies, you know, slap people on. the face, kick over, you know, dinosaurs. or whatever. I don't think we can go. back that far, but you could do anything. you want. And it doesn't change anything.

because you're going back in the block. universe and doing those things you were. always already going to do. And when you. get home, everything's the same because. that was already their past. To. everybody that stayed behind, that was. already their past. It was only the. future for you to go back and do those. things that you were already going to do. and then you just went and did them, get. home, everything's the same because you. were always going to do those things in. the first place. >> That's bizarre. That's hard to swallow. >> If that is the actual model of the. universe, and again, I can only work in.

writing these books, I can only work. from what we know now. Clearly, there's. a lot of things we don't know. I'm not. claiming [clears throat] to know. anything beyond what we can know right. now. But physicists despite not knowing. what time is. They know it's an emergent. phenomenon. There's something more. fundamental that time comes from. But. they do agree on this block universe. model. And in that case, there is no. paradox. >> How do they all agree on that? Like. wouldn't you have to test that and come. up with some sort of a a hypothesis and. then try to prove it or disprove it?

>> Right. I shouldn't say they all agree. cuz there is the many worlds. interpretation of quantum mechanics. where if you went back in that situation. it would be change. You would be. changing the timeline. Would it be. changing your timeline or would it be. changing a different timeline is the. question. >> And how would you know there there's. more paradoxes with changing things than. not changing things. >> Why do you confidently state that you. don't think that they can go back to the. dinosaur age? um. partly because. three different reasons. One um I think.

they need tremendously high speed in. order to be able to go back into the. past. Um so basically again working from. all I can work from in this time with. the limited primitive primate knowledge. that I have in the year 2012 to 2025. Um I basically just started with. Einstein's theory of relativity which he. published in 1905 on the electronamics. of moving bodies and then in 1915 he.

published his paper on general. relativity. From that point on, almost. instantly, there were solutions to his. field equations that showed with the. right parameters of a massively. highly uh energetic rotating ring or. sphere or disc that you could create. closed timelight curves that you could. actually orient light cones back toward. the past. So you can physically go into. the past. We saw this with Lens and. Thurine in like 1917 and 18. Kirk Odell. >> Godell universe was not long after in I.

think the 20s maybe. >> and then importantly in 1970s you had. Frank Tipler uh who showed. mathematically that you can shrink that. down to a disc he actually called it a. disc one of the reasons I think that. these are time machines is because it. has all of the parameters described by. Frank Tipler he wasn't talking about. UFOs but it they seemingly have the. ability to jump in and out of time they. appear and disappear and I'm talking too. much so I'll wrap this up in a second, but. >> you're definitely not talking too much. >> Well, I mean, we're here to talk, but I.

I have an internal trigger where I'm. like, "Shut up, masters. You're talking. too much.". >> Don't listen to that trigger. Let it. roll. [clears throat]. >> So, anyway, you know, if you look at the. history of how we understand backward. time travel. What I think they're doing. is that I think they're combining. general relativity and special. relativity. So, I think they're. orienting the light cones toward the. past by rotating these things really, really fast. You hear that all the time. They power up, they're spinning, or at. least there's some sort of flywheel on. the outside that's spinning. I think.

that's what's allowing them to move. toward the past and then they take off. So, it's that high speed that I think. allows them to go further into the past. So, they're using, you're aware of the. twins paradox, I'm sure. um time deation where you have two. twins, they're the same age, and then. one goes into a spaceship, they move at. tremendously high speed, they come back, and they're much younger than their twin. because time moved faster back on Earth. I think they're using that high-speed. motion while light cones are oriented. toward the past in order to travel.

deeper into the past through that. process of time deation. There are. limits to how fast we can go. Einstein. was very adamant about this because. there's an increase in inertial forces. the faster you go relative to the speed. of light. That's why he thought we could. never go that's why he thought that. anything with mass could never go faster. than the speed of light. Light can do it. because it's a wave or a particle or. both. Um so I think there's a a limit to.

how fast we can go. The other reason is. because Jim Penniston in this hypnotic. regression said that he's like we can. only go 40 to 60,000 years into the past. or we might not get back. >> You also have and this is a more. speculative one so take it for what it's. worth. You also have the Dan Burish. testimony of this JRod, this allegedly. captured alien who said we're from the. future. We are you from the future and. we're from about 55 to 60,000 years in.

your future. So those three things. together are why I don't think we could. go back 65 million years to hunt. dinosaurs, which actually would be kind. of fun. >> When you when talking about going the. speed of light, you're talking about not. traditional propulsion, but some form of. propulsion that allows you to go at. insane speeds. >> Yeah. Electromagnetic is what it seems. to be. Um, and and importantly, the. electromagnetic force is 10 to the 40. times more powerful than gravity. So, not only do I think that's what they use.

to fly, I think that's what they use to. manipulate space time. Actually, and Dan. Burrish is not Dan Burrish, uh, Dan. Farah, I think you just had him on, too. The age of disclosure. >> Yes. >> There's this really cool thing at the. end where, uh, Hal Putoff and I think. Eric Davis as well, we're talking about. this space-time bubble, right? a really. weird thing happened. We can get to that. in a second, but I don't want to jump. around too much because I'll lose people. and myself probably. Um, but this. space-time bubble that they form around.

the craft, I think is also indicative of. the fact that they're manipulating. spaceime, that they're traveling in and. out of time. They use it to hide in. plain sight. They manipulate the rate at. which they move relative to us in their. frame of reference. and they're moving. fast all around us and they've slowed. time down outside of that bubble. So. everything is really really slow to them. and they can easily evade our bullets. and our missiles, but we don't see them. because we don't have that frame rate of. perception. >> And and if you slow videos down, I'm.

sure you've seen these all the time. where there's like a and then you slow. it down and you can see this saucer. shaped craft moving slowly across the. sky once you slow down the frame rate. Um, but a really funny thing happened. because I I've never actually talked. about this uh with anyone before. Um, I. owe a lot of the fact that anybody even. knows who I am to help put off. He. uh when I first started talking about. this publicly in 2018 and then I.

published my book in 2019, identified. flying objects, he um I guess reached. out to the head of MUON at the time who. was putting together the 50th. anniversary MUON event and was like, "Hey, you should have this Mike Masters. guy come talk." And I found that out. from the head of Muon. He's like, "Hey, just so you know, how put off of all. people recommended I contact you." I had. no idea who that is. So I get on the. internet, I Google I'll put off. Um he. also put Jesse Michaels, mutual friend, uh in touch with me after I think he did.

an interview with him and Weinstein uh I. forget his name. >> Eric. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So he did an interview with those. two. I guess how was like, "Hey, you. should reach out to McMasters." And he. did and we talked and we've done stuff. together. But what was cool is that at. the end of that age of disclosure film. when he's talking about the space-time. bubble, I thought back to after my first. book came out and I was contacted by. someone who claimed to be an ex. intelligence person who explained that.

exact same thing to me back in 2019 that. these things aren't doing 10,000g. maneuvers that would crush anything. inside to them. in their frame of. reference, what they feel is completely. different than what we see. Because in. that space-time bubble, they can be. moving at 50,000 miles an hour, do a. right-hand turn, and it would splatter. anything inside because of the G-forces. That's what we see on the outside, but. in that space-time bubble, they probably.

feel one, two G's at the most. So, I. started thinking, man, was that Hal? did. how reach out to me with like uh a. different email address and say, "Hey, just so you know, this is how these. things are happening. This is how. they're able to do it." And I was a. dumbass. I still am a dumbass, but I was. an extra big dumbass back then. And I. was like, "Oh, cool. Thanks, man." You. know, like a a story went viral about my. books and Fox News picked it up and. space.com. And so I was going through a. bunch of emails. They recognized I.

wasn't getting what they were saying. I. was not picking up what they were. putting down. and they were like, "No, this is important." Said it again and. then it clicked. I was like, "Oh, yeah, that makes perfect sense.". >> They're manipulating the rate at which. time passes in this bubble around the. craft and we see something completely. different. >> So, when we're seeing this, we are. imagining what we can do and we're sort. of saying, well, what would be an. advanced version of what we can do? And. what this technology is is something.

that's levels of magnitude beyond even. our theoretical. like any sort of idea that we have. currently about you know potential. future timelines of technology. >> Yeah. >> There there's no one talking about. gravity bubbles that allow you to. instantaneously traverse immense gaps in. the universe. Well, they might be. talking about buying closed doors at. Wright Patterson Air Force Base, >> right? >> And have been for 70 years.

>> I think that's the real problem with. disclosure. Like, how how much progress. could we have made if they had opened up. all this stuff? >> And and you got to imagine if you were. an intelligent life form from another. planet. You know, Diana Pulka talked. about uh her and Gary Nolan talked about. how they refer to some of these things. as donations. Mhm. >> They don't think of them as crashed. vehicles because some of them are not. crashed. They're completely intact. And. >> I think David Rush said that too, didn't.

he? >> Yeah, I believe he did. >> Yeah. >> And even, you know, Lazar when when he. was talking about it, he, you know, he. >> Yeah. The sports model, wasn't that. fully intact, too? >> Fully intact. Yeah. Fully intact and. operational. And apparently they flew it. around. >> No kidding. That'd be fun. >> Well, that was one of the reasons, you. know, the whole story how he got caught. It's a really crazy story. So, uh, he. used to work at Los Alamos. He was a. propulsions expert. Guy put a jet engine. on the back of a Honda. He was a real. freak, you know, made a hydrogen. Corvette in like the 1990s. He was nutty.

dude. >> Clearly an engineer. Yes, that part. checks out. >> Um, so he uh gets his job on Area S4 and. um goes there and this is all documented. in Jeremy Corbell's uh excellent movie. uh Bob Lazar, Area 51, Flying Saucers. So he goes there and sees this thing and. it's got a American flag sticker on it. and you know they they basically say. tell us how it works and he's like oh. this is ours cuz he sees it has a. sticker on it. >> and then he realizes this is made out of.

some completely unknown alloy. There's. no seams in it. It seems to be 3D. printed. There's no controls inside of. it. It's designed for something that's. three feet tall. It's all very [ __ ]. weird. Um so he's working on this thing. not making much headway at all. They. they understood that there was an. element element 115. >> that was uh not even on the periodic. table. Uh eventually found to actually. be a thing by the large hydron collider. Um but even then they only measured it.

for a millisecond. Right? So then he's. saying that they have this stable. version of this element and you bombard. it with radiation creates this sort of. gravity drive. Um he's working on this. thing and it's all top secret so he. cannot tell his wife. So they're calling. him up at 10:00 like hey get to the. place the uh airport uh we need you. And. so he would have to fly out at random. times fly out to S4. And his wife was. like this motherfucker's having an.

affair. Well I'm going to have an affair. too. So, she starts [ __ ] her flight. attendant or a flight instructor. >> I think that's what it was. Um, >> when you have that kind of clearance, they are monitoring everything. They're. monitoring all your phone calls. They're. they're listen. So, they've realized. that his wife is having an affair and. they think that he will be emotionally. unstable and it's too dangerous to have. him working on this insanely top secret. information if he's not stable. So, they. they tell him, you know, we're going to. at least temporarily relieve you of your.

duties. So he's freaked out and he tells. his friends like, "Hey, this this is. this is what they're doing there. They. have these things and they fly them. every Wednesday. I'm gonna take you. guys. There's an area we can go watch.". So they take he takes his friends out. there on two separate occasions, I. believe. Um they get caught. They get. caught, gets arrested. Uh they release. him and he realizes like, "I'm kind of. [ __ ] They might kill me. I'm going to. have to go public with this." Contacts. George Knap. >> George, I did see that. >> Then the whole thing is history. >> Yeah. Yeah. No, that's wild, man. And I.

I think and it's still happening. You. know, there's still these. whistleblowers. >> He says they they used to fly them and. you could go watch them fly these things. and they were moving in these really. weird ways across the sky that you. cannot do with conventional aircraft. >> that they only sort of understood how to. like pick it up and put it down. They. didn't understand how to like really. >> That was out at Groom Lake, right? >> Yes. >> Yeah. I remember as a kid I I've been. obviously been into this for a long. time. I remember as a kid seeing videos. of people going out and then they.

eventually closed it down. You couldn't. get to that spot. But there was like. >> that was during the Obama. administration. During the Obama. administration they actually had to. admit that Area 51 was real cuz before. that they didn't no one even knew it was. real. I mean that was always just a joke. like Area 51 was like for fun but then. they said no it is real and we need to. expand the forbidden boundary. >> Yeah. And isn't isn't that when people. were going to like bum rush it too? Is. that when that happened? >> That was during co Okay. During co there. was a bunch of dorks that like we're. going to crash Area 51. That's a good.

way to die. They'll [ __ ] kill you. >> Hey, natural selection. >> Yeah, they're working on a lot of stuff. out there and some of it is weapons, >> right? >> They can't have you uh internet dorks. from Reddit just running out into Area. 51. >> Yeah, I think they eventually realized. that cuz I don't think they went out. there, but it could have been bad. >> I think it was all [ __ ] They. weren't gonna What are you gonna do? How. you going to get out there? >> Engagement farming. >> Yeah, man. There's a lot of crazy [ __ ]. that's been going on. It's been going on. for a while. Um Jamie and I were talking.

beforehand about the stove piping, too. You know, all the Yeah. the different. ways that they compartmentalize what. they're doing. And they talked about it. in Age of Disclosure, too. It's a big. problem because. >> certain people are working on these. parts of the craft to reverse engineer. them to understand them, but they don't. have the whole picture. >> Lazar was talking about that from the. 1980s. Yeah. In 1989, he said the the. people that are working on metallurgy. were not in contact with the people that. are working on propulsion. And you. weren't He's like, "Science cannot. operate like that.". >> Yeah. No, it can't because you need to.

know what's going on beyond just this. little part that you're working on. >> And if you have a bunch of people that. are sharing information, you get a much. more comprehensive understanding of what. this thing is. >> Yeah. We all benefit from communication, >> right? Because there could be something. involved in the actual structure of it. that lends to its ability to do. something. It might not be simply just. structure. It might be structure with. some sort of an ability. >> Yeah. You can't see the forest through. the trees in these situations. And and. it's unfortunate. And what the argument. they made in this this DACA is that.

we're putting ourselves at a. disadvantage because other countries. have probably retrieved these things. too. And they might be working on it. Yes. In secrecy, but if people are. working together, right, >> and not stovepiping this thing at. infinitum, >> then they might be able to actually make. more progress faster than us. So part of. the disclosure push is to be like, "Yeah, these things are real. We have. them. Let's get our best scientists. together to work on this holistically. instead of compartmentalizing. everything.". >> Well, just imagine if they had done that. from 1947, where we would be.

>> Exactly. >> If that's real, if Roswell was real, if. all the crash was real, Philip Drake. Corso is correct and all these people. are telling the truth. >> I know. And we still have to preface. these things with if if it's real, if. it's real. And and yeah, I I I I do the. same thing. I mean as coming from. academia when I wrote my first book I. had to be like if this is real but it's. hard it's this this paradox of sorts. because it how do you write to explain. something that isn't real you know. what's the point of even doing that? >> Yeah.

>> Um so so I think we have to assume I'm. actually teaching a class at Montana. Tech this spring called UFOs History and. Science. >> Oh I would take that if I was in school. >> I think I think it's going to be a lot. of fun. I know. I'm pretty stoked about. it. And I had these artists design a. poster in Norway and the UK and just. this crazy like I was like how how. conservative should I be with this? Like. just a UFO and I gave him total artistic. freedom and there's like an alien. holding the earth and this UFO. [laughter] swing around. I'm like all. right, I guess that's what I'm doing. Plastered it all over campus to recruit.

people to take the class. But like I'm. going in on day one. We're not we're not. going to [ __ ] around with like are these. things real? We're not going to waste. time on that. We're going to jump in. these are real. Here's what we're doing. This is what we know. This is what we. don't know. Explore the theories. Explore the history. Explore the. prehistory because it's it's a waste of. time. Like these things these things are. real. >> You think they're real? I know. >> What makes you convinced? [gasps]. >> Um. I have read enough accounts.

in researching this and. from people that I know. I mean, starting from when I was a kid, hearing. my biological father's account, you. know, the way he told it and then I. interviewed him again in college to try. to get more information cuz I was just. over hearing from the stairs when I was. supposed to be in bed. He saw what he. saw and then eventually I saw some UFOs. >> What did you see? >> I was kind of pissed actually cuz I. started talking about this in 2018 and. people were always like, "You ever seen. a UFO?" No, never seen a UFO. I'd like. to. And then finally in 2022,

uh it might have been late 2021. I don't. remember exactly when. It was kind of. warmish, so it was probably 2021, but I. I was everybody's in bed. I'm at my. house. I live in a canyon. And I was. having a whiskey. And I was like I just. walked up the canyon wall for some. reason, like the hill behind my house. I. don't really know why. I turned around. and I could see these five super bright. lights over what's known as the East. Ridge in But Montana. They were just. like sitting there right over the east.

ridge. I was like, "Well, that's not. normal. Those aren't usually there." And. they weren't stars, you know? They're. way too big, way too close. I would say. they were probably within 8 to 5 to 8. miles. You know, they they were in the. distance, but they were like there. And. then I just kind of looked at them for a. second like, "Oh, that's weird." And. then one by one from right to left, they. just went. shot off toward the southeast at like. crazy speed. You know, like the the kind. of like in in Star Wars or Star Trek how.

they hit Hyperdrive and there's that. that little light trail. >> like just one by one until they were all. gone. >> That I have no conventional explanation. for that. >> Wow. >> But I've never been one of those people. that's like I need to see it to believe. it, >> right? >> Because I believe the people who say the. same thing over and over. There's. patterns that we can extract from. people's testaments who have had these. close encounters. And that's one. unfortunate thing that's happening right. now as we're talking about the pilots,

talking about police, but people have. been seeing these forever. But they did. such a good job manufacturing the stigma. around it with project sign, project. grudge, project blue book to discount. these people to make them seem insane. You know, these that is one of the main. points of evidence that I would point to. that there is something. When people. think there isn't something, I'm like, you should really pay attention to what. they were trying to do during Project. Boo Book. >> Yeah. >> Because one of I have a buddy of mine, my friend Steve Graham. Shout out to. Steve. When he was a boy, he was living.

in New York, uh, upstate New York, and. um, he filmed this red orb that was. flying across the sky and he took some. photographs of it. And, um, they called. someone, some officials somewhere, I. don't remember. He was, he was very. young. And um they said we are going to. analyze the photos and then we'll bring. them back to you. >> And um they never returned the. photographs. When he called he said no. agents, there's no record of any agents.

coming to visit you. We don't know what. to tell you. >> So they just took his photos and that. was it. But he said whatever it was, you. know, he was young. I believe he was 10. or 11. And he said whatever it was was. really weird. He goes it was this red. orb that was flying through the sky. um. was a spacecraft. It wasn't a sun. It. wasn't a meteor. It it looked like it. was moving purposely and under control. >> And um it was there long enough for him. to take a Polaroid of it.

>> Yeah. And um they just completely. erased any memory of it or any any. evidence of it. When he called, like I. said, they said there no agents. >> visited you. whatever the agents name. were. There was no agents by that name. >> That's kind of the status quo. >> Well, they tried to make you look like a. fool. >> Absolutely. And that that was. intentional. Like the stated mission of. Project Grudge was to debunk these. things, come up with conventional. explanations, and make people seem like. idiots, >> right? Not to investigate.

>> No, not at all. >> The the purpose wasn't let's get to the. bottom of this, find out, is this. Russia? Is Russia doing this? That was. not the purpose. The purpose was make. these people look like fools. You only. do that if you know something that other. people don't. >> Yeah. >> This episode is brought to you by. Monster Ultra. Everybody knows the White. Monster. That clean white can, zero. sugar, crisp. It's everywhere lately. Gyms, your favorite convenience store, studios, you name it. I see people toss. it into their bag before training or a.

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it cuz we still feel like fools talking. about this. Oh, yeah. And we still have. to check ourselves and be like, is this. real? If this is real, you know? But but. I I think that shame is starting to. diminish. I think the stigma is starting. to go away. >> Well, I think the New York Times article. from 2017, that was a game changer. >> That was a big one. >> Yeah. And then from then on, it's been. this trickle. Mhm. >> These guys like Ryan Graves and, you. know, guys like David Faver. These these. David Favorvers guys that was, you know, he was.

>> in a fighter jet saw this thing move. from 50,000 ft above sea level to sea. level in like less than a second. >> Yeah. >> And they saw this thing. There was. something under the water below it. It's. like whatever he saw. And if you ever. talked to him, have you ever talked to. him? I've talked to Alex Dietrich who. was with him during that. >> He's a very reliable guy and very. intelligent by the book, very. disciplined. Not.

>> I mean he was like a top gun pilot. [clears throat] like he was leading the. whole group, right? >> Yeah. He's a commander. So and when he. describes it, it sounds very real. What. whatever he's talking about, he. experienced. I believe that. And there's. also video of it. There's video of it. flying. Um they have the radar data. radar data. They they know that it went. to their designated meetup point, >> the cap point. Yeah. >> Which is really weird. >> It is. And it indicates they knew the. future or. >> they were part of our military. Right.

>> I kind of wonder if the tic tac be. because it is somewhat anomalous in the. context of a lot of things in the UFO. lore as far as spinning discs or big. triangular craft. This one kind of seems. like one of ours. Well, it is odd that. these things happen where there's a lot. of military training exercises. Like. this one was off the coast of San Diego. It was off the Nimmits, you know. So, the they had the the Nimmits which was. out there. Obviously, you got a lot of. military in San Diego.

>> The Roosevelt too, I think, is where. they were capturing the radar. >> And the ones that Ryan Grave experienced. were all East Coast. Again, it's all. near military bases. It's all where they. do military training exercises. >> Yeah. Yeah. And why not figure out what. you can do with people that you train. with already anyway, >> right? You know, >> and why not see like what is detectable. and what's not? You know, Ryan Graves. talked about how in 2014 they upgraded. all the sensors and the jets and then. all a sudden they started picking these.

things up all over the place. >> He said they were encountering them. virtually every time they went out, >> which is so weird. Imagine you're. encountering. uh was it a a circle inside of a sphere. or a sphere inside of a circle? >> I think it was a circle in a a sphere. >> Yeah. Whatever it was. >> Yeah. >> Which one was it? Was it a circle and a. sphere? >> It was I just saw a picture on Twitter. recently. It was a little circle. [snorts] and then a cube or something. >> Very [ __ ] weird. Whatever that is. And able to hover motionless in like 200.

knots of wind. >> Yeah. And it would make sense if we are. reverse engineering these. They're gonna. look pretty primitive. It's basically a. big propane tank that they're flying. around. Like they probably started. simple. It's probably unmanned, but. they're testing that capability to like. manipulate the spaceime to shoot off, you know, cuz it dropped 10 80,000 ft. supposedly looks like a cube inside. Yeah, I I can remember. >> Apparently, my dyslexia extends to. images, too. >> Explained using UFO patents. Click on. that.

Explained. A recent article by The Hill. has highlighted the reports of a Cuban. sphere UAP military pilots have been. seeing as reported by Graves where he. once again highlights how often our. pilots are seeing these things and why. he doesn't believe they are conventional. drones or balloons. And so this is uh. our obviously some sort of a. computerenerated rendition. Ah the. [ __ ] popup. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Um but so. >> I mean yeah they didn't get a picture of. it but. >> but here's the patent. Scroll up a.

little bit. Uh so a month ago I did a. deep dive on a post about UFO patents. How magnetto hydrodnamic propulsion. systems could explain some of the. observations includes an expired patent. from the 1960s and a few newer patents. describing not only the propulsion but. how the plasma field can make the craft. invisible to radar. Huh. Yeah. I mean again it makes sense like if if. we have been reverse engineering these. for 70 years we would start bringing.

them out. They would look weird. They. wouldn't necessarily look like the craft. that we struggled to fly at Groom Lake. that we could go up and down with and. that's about it. Like they would look. like this little thing that's simple. It's basic. It's a propane tank or it's. a cube within a sphere. I probably had. that backwards again. >> Um and then experiment with it. See what. you can do. And a lot of people make the. argument, why would they do that? It's. dangerous. You know what? If there was a. mid-air collision, if they are actually. manipulating spaceime in these things. like they seemingly are with the the. saucer shaped craft, you don't have to.

worry about that. You know, you're. you're you're it's this isn't a cat-and-. mouse game where the cat and mouse are. equal. Like, you have complete control. of spaceime in and around that area. You're not going to run into anybody. They're all moving extremely slowly. relative to you. According to put off. and Davis at the end of that doco and. whoever reached out to me, whether it. was HAL or not, somebody reached out to. me and explained this same thing in. 2019. And it makes a lot of damn sense. And to kind of extend it into my area of. research, if you can manipulate space. and time in and around this craft, what's keeping you from using that to.

travel through time? >> I guess I mean, but again, that's with. the the different model, not the. multi-orlds model, but the what was the. other model that you described? >> Block universe. >> Block universe model. >> Universe theory. >> Yeah. Um, the idea that they would be so advanced. that they could genetically engineer a. body and get to whatever state they are. at where they communicate. telepathically, but yet they can't solve.

the problem of old DNA like needing. what what do they need genetic. diversity? Like what is it? What are. they trying to get out of us? Are they. trying to get the source source material. >> instead of the old stuff or instead of. the stuff that they've had forever? >> One of the arguments I made in my first. and second books is that really since. European colonialism starting about 500. years ago, we are all becoming one. interbreeding population. So it used to. be that you had different isolated.

populations and then occasionally there. would be gene flow that introduces new. genes. If we all are just one population. on this inbred island of Earth, where. are you going to get new gene variants? And then you combine that with uh the. things we just talked about with the. potential for things to go wrong with. trying to make designer babies or, you. know, the trends toward reduced. fertility in men and women. And. importantly, the potential that there could be some. massive cataclysm that puts us into a.

huge bottleneck where there just is no. genetic diversity at all. >> Like if you think about something that. happened that wiped out a huge. percentage of the population and there. are warnings about this over and over. again with experiencers and contacties, they're like, there's some cataclysmic. thing coming. If that were to happen, all of those problems we're already. having, all of the trends that are. already leading to us having problems. with fertility in the future will be. hugely exacerbated by a very limited. gene pool.

>> Well, we know that human beings have. gotten down to a very small population. in the past. Yeah. >> So, we are. >> So, we're already kind of limited. >> Yeah. >> In our diversity. >> What do you think of the theory that. human beings have been genetically. engineered? Man, when I first started in all this, I. wouldn't touch that one cuz I had to. impose some restrictions on myself so I. didn't seem like a crazy person. >> and keep your academic standing. [laughter].

>> I don't really care anymore to be. honest. >> Well, you sold a few books. >> Yeah, I sold some books. I mean, that's. the thing is like I I do have the. respect of my peers, you know, like. >> it's not a career killer anymore. >> No, exactly. You know, I back in 2018, I. was kind of rolling the dice. So, I was. really nervous about it. I went to the. chair of my department and was like, "Hey, just so you know, in case there's. any push back and publishing this book. about whether, you know, UFOs are future. humans." And he looked at me and cocked. his head and he's like, "That's our job. That's what we're supposed to be doing,

asking questions like that." Like, he. was he was all pissed off like, "Why are. you even asking me this or telling me. this, you know?". >> Well, that's a cool guy to work for. >> I was like, "Sweet. All right. Well, check. I got one [laughter] I got one on. board at least." Um but I was really. conservative in this approach like the. dean actually of of my college who gave. me an award for um scholarship and. researchers and there's a lot of amazing. researchers at Montana Technological. University like we're very well known. for research and scholarship. She gave. me an award in 2022 for research and.

scholarship and all I was doing at that. point was UFO stuff. You know, that was. kind of a nod too. >> But she was telling me the other day in. a meeting cuz I'm the chair of the. department, uh, unfortunately. >> And she was like, "Oh, your your. dissertation book." Because I did kind. of write my first book as a. dissertation. It's very scientific. It's. very dense. It's very technical. But I. needed to do that. >> because of the stigma, you know, because. of the shame. And you're right, it is. changing, which is great. But there are. certain things that we still can't that.

are hard for me to talk about because it. starts to get into ancient aliens. territory. And that's one of them. Are. they manipulating us genetically? Have. they been for a long time? >> I don't know. I used to say I don't. know, so I didn't have to talk about it. Now I say I don't know cuz I genuinely. don't know. Maybe. >> Well, how could you? >> How could I? Yeah, good point. Yeah, I. mean it's all theoretical, but there. seems to be a trend in at least the. encounter reports in there's when when. people have reported some sort of.

communication with these things. >> there there is there's a lot of talk of. genetic manipulation. >> There's a lot of talk of. >> it's the most common trope thing. >> But it also makes sense when you look at. how different we are than any other. animal that exists or has existed. >> True. We're so advanced and so weird and. we vary so much like biologically and. structurally. I mean there's animals. like there's different kinds of wolves, right? There's greywolves and red wolves.

and they vary and you know red wolves. and grey wolves they can't even. interbreed and create viable offspring. in terms of like their ability like they. would be hybrids if they did breed where. they wouldn't but they don't they don't. breed with red wolves and coyotes which. is also a type of wolf but that's kind. of where it ends whereas humans are. [ __ ] weird at least coyotes all look. like coyotes wolves all kind of look. like wolves like with humans you get 7. foot tall people and 5 foot tall people.

and round people and thin people. >> They are actually all very similar. genetically. There's a study done in the. 70s um. >> looking at at polymorphisms and they. found that between like what it used to. be thought there were races like. Africans, Asians, and Europeans. That. was it. They didn't consider Native. Americans or Australians or anybody. Um, but they did this study on. polymorphisms, found that only about 6. to 7% of our all of our genetic. differences can be accounted for by. those between group differences. And.

they did the same thing with Y. chromosomes, they did the same thing. with cranial facial anatomy and found. that we're all very similar. So despite. those differences in height, weight, skin color, hair color, eye color, we're. we're very very similar, which could. again lead to problems related to. genetic homogenization, limited gene. pool in the future, needing to go back. and and sample gametes from the past. Another argument I hear people make. related to what you're saying, like an. argument for potential genetic.

manipulation of the human species over. time, is that it all happened really. fast. We see this acceleration in our. rate of change, the rate of our. technological development. Those things. might indicate that there's some sort of. seeding in the past with not just. technology, but the genetics that allow. us to expand our minds and and develop. these things. >> Well, then there's the weird stories. from ancient scripts, ancient texts like. the book of Enoch. Like what what is. that all about? Like that's some weird.

stuff where it talks about the Watchers. >> Yeah. >> Coming down from the sky and mating with. humans and creating the Nephilim. >> who destroy everything. >> Yeah, I might get some [ __ ] for this, but I would be willing to bet that all. major religions and the little ones have. some sort of UFO alien component to the. myth and legend that gave rise to them. over time. >> It makes sense. >> It does. Actually, the third book I. wrote, Revelation, flips the whole.

script on Revelation, and it it. interjects time travelers. It interjects. this this whole there was for a while. there was this question of like whether. there was a fight over the timeline, whether the grays were coming back to. because some cataclysm needed to happen. and we all went underground and that's. why we have big eyes and pale skin. So, we had to evolve underground for a. while. And then another group like. trying to keep that from happening. So, the book kind of explores that in a. fictional capacity. And I wrote it. because my friends weren't reading my.

science books because they're dense and. scientific. And I was like, man, you. know what? If I wrote a book that's just. like a crass sex drugfueled exploration. of like this time travel idea. And. that's where that book came from. It. still ties in all of these same concepts. scientifically, but in the story, like. the the main character is a an. intertemporal sex researcher. She goes. back in time and just [ __ ] everybody to. learn what [laughter] to learn what sex. is. That's the book I gave you when I. got here, actually. It's a weird one.

>> That's right here. >> Yeah, it's a weird one. But it was super. fun to write, you know, and and they're. like and and then her the professor in. this book, he's like the the he's an. intertemporal. drug kingpin of sorts. Um but but it's. like it's exploring these same ideas in. a different way, you know, with fiction, it's satire, it's comedy. the the word. most commonly used is it's hilarious. It's a comedy book, you know, cuz I. wanted people that don't read the. science books to still be introduced to. this concept and the science behind it.

in a different way. And man, it was so. much more fun to write than those. science books. What do you think of um. when people start theorizing about some. sort of a breakaway civilization that. lives under the ocean? >> Yeah. So, we actually published a paper. about that last June about the. cryptoaterrestrial hypothesis. You [laughter] mentioned it on your show. in a really funny way because it went. viral internationally. It was absolutely.

insane the impact this thing had. Um. like I had to go on Fox and Friends one. morning to talk about it and then the. next day I did. >> What What made it go viral? What was the. uh. >> Well, cuz I published it with two guys. from Harvard. I was a co-author on the. paper and so it's clickbait. It's. Harvard researchers say dinosaurs are. aliens and they live among you. So stuff. like that. >> and it worked because it it I I I Yeah. >> Well, it makes you what go what? >> Your yours was the funniest one. Uh you.

guys pulled it up on your screen and. you're like, man, these these Harvard. researchers must have snuck in where. they're doing the psilocybin experiments. and ate all the mushrooms. [laughter]. That cracked me up. Uh and I don't think. we did. I don't remember if we did. I. don't think we did, but it definitely. had elements of like these guys ate a. lot of mushrooms. Uh, which was part of. why it went viral, but there were some. really solid arguments in there. And the. title of the paper was scientific. openness to the cryptoaterrestrial idea.

That's all we were advocating for. And. we listed four main ways in which this. cryptoaterrestrial idea could happen. And the fourth one is what really got. clickbaity because we were like maybe. there was a breakaway civilization. That's the cryptoaterrestrial idea. But. maybe an advanced reptile. dinosaurs didn't go extinct. And this. was, you know, we don't think this. actually happened, but we're just. putting out arguments for what this idea. could be. And so, yeah, they took that.

and put like dinosaurs at keyboards and. stuff like that. But, >> but one of them is time travelers. And. it would make sense if you were in the. future instead of jumping back through. time in order to study people in a. specific time you set up a base on the. far side of the moon where up until the. 60s7s we wouldn't know they were there. Set up a base under the oceans. And this. would go for the extraterrestrial idea. too. Instead of. >> traversing the vast swaths of space, come here, set up under the oceans where. we're not going to find you, right?

>> Antarctica, far side of the moon. And. then you can do everything here locally. instead of having to jump across space. extraterrestrial or jump across time. extra tempest. >> Well, it also explains some of the very. strange ways that they've observed. crafts moving under the water. >> Like they've observed crafts moving. under the water at 500 knots that are as. big as a football field. >> And apparently there's video of these. things. Apparently, there's, you know, the Navy has. >> something that they filmed that is as.

big as a football field that was going. essentially 500 miles an hour underwater. without any ripples, not disturbing the. water at all, not creating a wake. >> and then moving right out of them in the. transmedium capacity. >> Yeah. Well, you know, when you think. about how little explor explor Ex excuse. me, exploration we've done to the bottom. of the ocean, it's we know more about. the moon than we do about the surface of. the the actual bottom of the ocean. >> Yeah. Yeah. It would be a great place to. hide out. Um, and again, you know, the.

ability to move in and out of air, water, space, upper atmosphere with no. disturbances, uh, the trans medium. capabilities, that whole warped. space-time bubble around them would help. explain that, too, that they're not. experiencing the water. They're not. experiencing the air as they move. between them. Like, I I always think. about I I really love skiing, and one of. my favorite times to ski is is late. season. You know, it's April, the sun's. out, everybody's in t-shirts or bikinis. or whatever. I don't wear bikinis, but.

people do. And you get into that slushy. stuff. You're cruising down the. mountain, you hit the slush, and you. just go ass over kettle, you know, over. the top of your skis. >> And and that's what, you know, we would. expect if they're moving in and out of. air and water and and space is that. there would be some resistance. There's. not, you know, they don't have that. And. it it does indicate that there is some. sort of manipulation of of space and. time around them and and yeah moving. underwater these football fieldsiz craft.

going that fast. I mean how can you do. that if there is actual resistance from. the water? >> Well it just makes you wonder how much. does the government know you know you. seen that guy Tim Bashett talk about it. there's. >> he's hilarious. >> Yeah it was very funny. I mean, he was. just casually mentioning that there's. five different locations in the ocean of. the world in the seas of the world where. they've observed crafts coming out of. >> That's a very weird thing to just say. while you're walking, >> just casually talk about it.

>> and and with such confidence. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, they're they're doing these. skiffs. They're talking to people behind. closed doors. >> Uhhuh. >> They don't have the same requirement to. not disclose things as those people do. You know, they didn't sign NDAs. Uh, and. he has a hilarious way of talking about. it. He's got the best oneliners of. anybody. >> discussing this stuff. Um, I I mean, somebody knows somebody knows a lot of. things. A lot of people probably know a. lot of things and have for a very long. time. >> But, you know, what is that.

relationship? What do they control? Why. are we not allowed to know? >> Well, this is the real question. Like, what do they actually know about what's. going on in the ocean? Like if there are. bases somewhere down in the ocean, there's that weird one, the Baltic Sea. Anomaly. >> I don't know that. >> You know what that one? Uh Jesse. Michaels just did a show about it where. he interviewed the guy who found it. Uh. I think they're treasure divers and they. found this very strange thing that is. sitting on the floor of the ocean and it.

has right angles to it and it's it's. kind of curved. There's an actual uh I. don't know what kind of an image is of. it, but they have explored this thing. and he's convinced that it's it's not a. natural formation. >> Yeah. Interesting. >> See if you can find something on the. Baltic. See, put that into our sponsor. >> Is there an indication? It's like. >> that's a base. Look, it looks like a. [ __ ] Millennium Falcon. What's wrong with my mouth today? I. can't say Millennium Falcon. Like that's.

what it looks like. >> That's interesting. So, you know, look, this could be something that's sitting. on or it could be something that was. built at a time where this was not. covered by ocean. >> Like you live in Montana. Montana used. to be the great inland sea, right? Yeah. >> There was you could find seashells in. Montana, which is really weird. >> Yeah. And even all along the coast of. Alaska, like there was about 110 foot. rise in sea level over the last 12,000. years. So what.

more images of this thing? Like what. what is that thing? >> Yeah, but these are all artistic. renditions. Some of them are some of. them are. But the other one, that blue. one that you see there, that's the real. thing. That's what it actually looks. like. >> Yeah, that's pretty anomalous, >> right? Like what what is that though? Is. that an ancient structure that people. built, you know, 20,000 years ago? Like. what is it? Baltic Sea Anomaly is a. sonar detected seafloor formation in the. northern Baltic Sea found in 2011 by. Swedish Ocean X, formerly Ocean Explorer.

team during a treasure hunting. expedition. Most geologists who have. examined the available data consider it. a natural rock formation shaped by. glacial processes despite ongoing. popular specula speculation about UFOs. or artificial origin. >> Yeah, >> that's tough, man. >> There's that thing off the coast of. Malibu, too. Is that Malibu or is it um. Catalina Island? What's that one thing. where it was in Google Earth and then. they blurred it out after a while? >> I think that was just a Google Earth. thing. Maybe not. But.

>> but it was on Google Earth and then it. now blurred. >> I read like where they're getting the. data from Google Earth, you know, like. where that what is that data? You know, not taking a picture. >> So it was like bad data, I think. So. >> and then it cleared up, >> I think. So also that's a good answer. >> That's a good answer for the government. I did a talk in um Manhattan last year. um and Tim Galedet was one of the. speakers and he was showing images of I. think what you're talking about where. there was like this.

>> sort of almost like a cliff underwater. and then had some strange things around. it like it had been modified or. >> I didn't I don't remember exactly what. he was saying but I think that I think. that's what you're talking about. That. was just off of Catalina Island. >> That's right. Yeah. It was very weird. looking and a lot of people were specul. and the one of the reasons why it's very. weird. There's a lot of sightings off of. Catalia Island. >> There's a lot of sightings out there. >> Yeah. And it, you know, again, it makes. sense if they were trying to covertly. study us regardless of their origins,

ultraterrestrial, extraterrestrial, whatever. Um, use the oceans. >> Perfect. Perfect base. It's very. difficult, >> especially if you can move in and out of. there with impunity. Not just because we. won't see them, but they have the. technology to make the water and the air. the same thing. >> Click on that image where the cursor is. at. Yeah. So that's that's it. Whatever. that is. Like that looks real weird. >> It does look weird. >> That looks real weird. Whatever the hell. that is. That's so strange. >> That's so strange looking. But again,

that's like Is that what it really looks. like? What What are the new images? Is. the new one on the right. Okay, that's. it right there. >> The one I had up says it's from 2014. Like what the hell is that? It's got. pillars. I mean, that's very strange. That has those sort of uniform shaped. pillars. >> Yeah. And the top looks. >> structural, you know, like something you. would make to withstand the weight of. the water above you. >> Like a garage door. >> Yeah. >> Like it's a garage door to a base.

>> Yep. No, I mean again when I started out. in this I was relatively conservative. with my views on things, but man, the. further you go down this rabbit hole, just the weirder [ __ ] gets and you can't. do that anymore. >> You've got to recognize that there's a. lot of things that just. >> you can't write off. You know, the. impossible become possible or at least. you have to open your mind to the fact. that these things you used to think were. impossible need a second look, >> right? And then there's also the the. people that work in military.

intelligence that work with these. defense contractors that say there's. black. black operations, like operations that. are completely top secret that are 30. years ahead of anything that you can. imagine right now. So you go, okay, well, what does that look like? What is. 30 years ahead of us now look like? >> Yeah, like that was SR71, the black bird. or whatever it is, black whatever. Um, yeah, like we didn't even know about. that until 20 years after they had made. it, >> right?

>> And and it makes sense. You know, you. don't want your enemies to know. And. that's an argument that's been made over. and over that we can't disclose things. cuz then our enemies will have this. technology. And I always thought growing. up that, you know, it'll take a war. before they're like, "Oh, we need to use. these things we've been developing.". Like, we're getting our ass kicked in. this war. It's time to bring out the. UFOs and our. >> space age laser weapons and stuff. But. >> I I kind of think it's going to happen. before that. It's it's it's weird to. say, but I kind of get the sense that it. is happening. There's been a lot of.

False Horizons. People have been saying. that for a long time, but doesn't it. feel different? I mean, you. >> It definitely does feel different. It. definitely feels um that the general. public is a lot more open to the concept. without being thought of as a fool. >> Right. >> It it used to be when I was a kid, if. you'd bring up UFOs, people just roll. their eyes. Especially before the. internet. Oh my god. If you brought up. any of that stuff, they would laugh at. you. I was reading some book on Roswell. once, like I think it was in the 1990s, and you know, this guy's like, "What the. [ __ ] are you wasting your time on this.

complete horseshit for? There's no such. thing as UFOs." I'm like, >> "How do you say that with such. confidence?" Like, we live in a galaxy. with hundreds of billions of scar stars. just in this galaxy. >> with hundreds of billions of stars in. other galaxies and there's hundreds of. billions of other galaxies. Like, what. are you saying? That's crazy to say that. we are the only ones. >> It is. They did a really good job at. making us feel like idiots. >> Yeah. Well, it's you can see how that. can be done, you know. I mean, look what.

they did during the COVID crisis. You. know, if you don't get a vaccine, make. your end of life preparations now, you. know, like you're going to be killing. everybody. No one's going to survive. This this this disease targets the. unvaccinated. And people believed all. that. >> Well, I think the two are related, too, cuz we started to figure out that we've. been lied to about UFOs. And the obvious. question is what else? What else were. they lying to us about? >> Yes. Well, I think once we realize how. strong the propaganda machine is and how. gullible people are.

>> Oh, yeah. That's the big one. >> Easily. I mean, if people were going to. accept something as 100% truth without. any investigation or any skepticism from. the pharmaceutical drug industry. They. are the most evil [ __ ] that. have ever lived. They are responsible. for more death from releasing drugs that. have horrible adverse side effects that. they knew about. They have taken the. largest. criminal fines of any companies. I mean,

what they've done is really [ __ ]. creepy when you look at how they release. drugs that they knew were going to [ __ ]. people over and they knew those people. didn't need those drugs. And yet when. you put people in a scary situation and. you make them terrified and you offer up. a solution, they believe wholeheartedly. that the pharmaceutical drug. [clears throat] companies were only. telling the truth and anybody who didn't. didn't believe. >> your best interest in mind. >> So it's like that sheep mentality is so. strong with so many people. There are so. many cowards in the world and so many.

followers that will just step in line. the moment things get weird whenever. they get challenged the moment things. get weird that it just makes sense that. if you make it like socially you you. become a social pariah if you start. talking about UFO here's Mike with. [ __ ] wacky UFO theories like people. don't talk about those things they don't. want to bring them up. >> and the military-industrial complex is. kind of the equivalent of the. pharmaceutical companies on the other. side of this coin Sure. >> Uh we, you know, we trust them. They.

defend us. Whatever they are making, I'm. sure they'll use for great purposes. But. yeah, I mean, a big part of that was. making us feel like idiots for talking. about this stuff. And that is changing. though. And it's not it largely because. of, you know, ancient [clears throat]. aliens. I've been on the show five. times. [laughter]. I had a little bit of cognitive. dissonance the first time I went on. >> That show goes they go way out there. >> They get out there, man. And they they. totally. >> But it's just fun. It is fun, you know, and that's how I approached it. Well, I. also approached it because I was trying.

to talk about this theory. They did this. funny bait and switch for the first. three episodes I was on where they're. like, "Hey, come down talk about your. theory." I'm like, "Oh, okay. So, I'll. go to LA or wherever." And we do this. shoot. They cut out everything about my. books and this theory and just use me to. talk about whatever this show was. actually about. >> Little small snippets. >> Yeah. I caught on to that. And so the. fourth time I went, I was like, "All. right, but I'm only doing if you guys. actually, you know, but and the one of. the episodes was about this whole theory. anyway." So, >> uh, it made sense. But,

>> um, I forget what we're talking about. >> Oh, the stigma. So, one of the cool. things that's been happening largely. because of uh ancient your show, you. know, you talk about this a lot and it. helps normalize it for a lot of people. is that there's a safe space now, you. know, like where where you'll be talking. about these things and somebody will. come up who had a sighting when they. were, you know, a teenager in their 40s. or whatever and they never told anybody.

>> and now it's like, wait, it's safe to. talk about this. And that's so cool to. see, man. And then it makes me realize. just how many people have had an. experience that's been bottled up. inside. It's liberating to let that come. out and we're sharing information and. contactees too. You know, unfortunately, I started saying earlier, we're still. kind of stuck on this is changing too, but we're still largely stuck on the. cockpit videos and the fleer and the. gimbal and the go fast. But people have. been taken into these craft. They've had. stuff put on their junk and their seaman. taken, you know, like there's a lot of.

no square touching that happens. anal. probes, you know, and and we used to. laugh at that, but that is such a common. theme throughout these. And we need to. recognize that these people are having. real experiences and have been having. them for a very long time. Let's move. on. Let's talk to these people. Let's. let the contacties and the experiencers. who have had the closest form of a close. encounter you can have, let's trust them. now. Let's listen to what they have to. say. Let's be discerning, you know. Let's but let's keep an open mind. Well, I think one of the more interesting.

things when when you start talking about. stories and encounters, one of the more. interesting things is some of the. research that Jacqu Valet has done where. he brings up stories that absolutely. predate the modern cultural visions of. UFOs like the modern cultural concept of. the close encounter with the third time. kinds that come down in a flying saucer. all those things like flying saucer. didn't even come out until the Kenneth. Arnold uh experiences.

>> Yeah. >> So, it's these encounters people are. talking about from the 1700s and the. 1800s. >> and they're talking about something. coming down and something interacting. with people and you know them having. some sort of experience of lost time. It's the threat is very common. The. Betty and Barney Hill story. >> Yep. Yeah. It's not just the game. extractions. I mean, you you could make. the argument that um a lot of things. that happened in very mainstream. religious texts were exactly what people.

are describing. Even the CIA admitted. that pe like unexplainable pregnancies. are an aspect of the phenomenon. You. know, where Jesus come from kind of an. unexplainable pregnancy. I think Jesus. was a time traveler personally. >> A time traveler. >> Yeah. That's another aspect of that book. that you. >> It's in your satire. It's in my satire. book. Yeah. Uh I think. >> Oh, you literally have Jesus coming out. of a UFO. [laughter]. >> I got some [ __ ] for that. >> with the double bird. He's throwing up.

the double bird, which it turns out. Christians don't like that. >> Well, >> you know, can't please everybody, right? >> No, he can't. >> But there are many aspects of Jesus's. life. Big fan of Jesus, by the way. Um. that are very paranormal. A lot of these. seemingly. miraculous things I think can be. explained with a lot of the same. technologies that we see today. We just. didn't have a way of conceptualizing. them. Obviously Ezekiel. >> is the one that gets talked about a lot. The wheel within a wheel, the telepathy,

the embers, burning embers. >> Yeah. >> Um Yeah. And then you look at the. Nephilim like u and and all kinds of. different Baba Woresa this um story from. Zulu lore. It it's it's a [ __ ] alien. abduction, man. And they've been telling. this story for thousands of years. >> So it's this this woman, the sky goddess. who chooses a man to mate with and comes. down, tests [clears throat] him to make. sure that he knows that it's her, appears in his dreams, uh, communicates.

telepathically, gets him ready for this. interaction. He's in love with her, never met her before. She comes down. from the sky and takes him up with her. on this rainbow of light. >> Wow. like all of the like and I made the. case in my second book that if um. Antonio Vois had been able to go back. with the woman that he had sex with, it's basically the same story. >> H. >> So this Brazilian lawyer is telling a. story that's identical to this Zulu. legend that's been told for centuries,

millennia. I don't know how far it goes. back. >> Kind of weird. But we need to look outside of just the. the mainstream view which is finally. happening. So I'm I'm excited about. that. I'm very grateful. I have a lot of. gratitude about what's happening. The. question we can go further. >> Why did the mainstream view become what. it is and we know that that is because. of a concerted concentrated propaganda. effort. >> Yeah. Yeah. And a very effective one. >> I mean back nailed it.

>> Well they had there was no other media. back then. They had complete control of. newspapers, complete control of. television stations. I mean, how many pe. I mean, how much do we know now about. various news anchors that were actually. CIA agents? There's a [ __ ] [ __ ] ton. of them. >> And even if they weren't, they were. being forcefed this stuff that they were. happy to regurgitate. >> Absolutely. Yeah. They just wanted to. look good and have a suit and speak like. an expert. Here we go. >> And if you don't tow the line, somebody. else will. >> Yeah. And you're you're living a great. life. You drive a Mercedes, live in a.

nice house. Why would you [ __ ] this up. over a UFO story? Just tell your friends. what you're supposed to tell them. >> Yeah, it's easy to get people to comply. like that, especially when they're. dependent upon, you know, whether it's a. corporate entity like CNN or whether. it's New York Times or whatever it is. It's It's not hard to get people to. comply. >> No. And you're right. Since the. internet, things have changed. >> radically. >> Um. >> really radically. >> Radically. But I think there's a. downside, too. We're We've already kind. of been moving toward a post-truth.

existence. Good lord, man. Like, I'll scroll. through videos on Twitter now. 90% of. them are fake. >> Oh, there's so much AI. >> It's so ridiculous. And I I make the. unfortunate. >> decision to go into the comments to see. what percentage of people think it's. real. >> 80. >> 90. >> I would say at least 90. It's insane. Like, I just I have it still have it on. my phone. It's this stupid [ __ ] video. of a rabbit like nursing that's little.

rabbit babies and one of them is a cat. So the mom cat comes [laughter] in, picks the [ __ ] baby cat up by the. nose like they're magnetically attached. It doesn't even grab it. Like they just. the baby kind of comes with it and then. walks out the back of the burrow. Like. there's no back to a rabbit burrow, you. know? And everybody's like, "Oh, whoops. That cat made a mistake. It's drinking. from the wrong species." People don't. see it. They don't see that this is very. obviously fake. And it's it's not just. for that. Like they're using it for. propaganda. They're using it for the.

same type of thing that they've used. forever. Oh well, this UFO phenomenon is. not real because AI made this video. >> Well, there's also the problem with what. percentage of people that are even. commenting are actual people. >> Exactly. >> There's a huge amount of bots that are. communicating on all the social media. platforms. A giant percentage of the. comments are not real people. >> That's a really good point. Yeah. No, you're right. So they would comment on. anything and just say, "Wow.". >> But that also still feeds the perception. that it's real because other people that. maybe don't have great critical thinking.

skills or discernment because, you know, they're a 90-year-old grandma that. doesn't know how to use a computer, she. sees that, oh, it's cute. >> I think it erodess the consensus. intelligence. >> Yeah. >> Like the con like the the the overall. level of intelligent discourse that a. society puts out. You know, if you have. a town square, which is like Twitter is. our town square, right? If that town. square is populated by fake people, like. enormous percentage populated by fake. people that are just designed to say the.

most inflammatory, ridiculous things to. get interaction and engagement and also. to erode people's faith in other people. and to make us argue with each other, >> to construct the other. Like you were. saying at the beginning of this. conversation, it fuels tribalism. Yeah, >> it's it's really problematic. >> My my hope is that eventually there will. be some way to accurately discern and. it'll stop that stuff from happening. You know, that you'll be able to tell. like very clearly whether or not it's an.

actual person. The problem is that if. that does happen, it's a gateway to. digital ID because you would have to. lose your an anonymity because if if. you're a like anonymity is very. important for whistleblowers. Like say. if you work for a corporation, you find. out that corporation is dumping stuff. into a river and it's all secret and. it's illegal and you know that if you. tell they're going to kill you, you. know, and you're an executive at that. corporation, you your conscious is. troubled. You can make a fake account.

You could sign up through a VPN. You can. make a fake account and you could post. all this information that you know and. you could break a story and you don't. face any consequences. You don't get. killed. Yeah. >> If you have digital ID, if we know who. everybody is that's posting something. and you make that same post, who knows. what they do to you? Who knows what. happens? >> Yeah. And it's been happening. There's. there's been whistleblowers who have had. mysterious deaths, you know, all over a. long time. >> All over the place. >> Um Yeah. It's It's.

>> Didn't Gary Webb didn't he shoot himself. in the head twice? >> What's the Was that the story? >> What's the one Tim Buret always says get. shot in or you shoot yourself in the. back of the head four times or. something? >> Yeah. I mean, I think it's in reference. to that. How did Gary Webb die? >> Yeah. Making sure it's true. >> Yeah, there's But e even if that's not. true, there's a bunch of stories about. whistleblowers who go missing. >> Yeah, there's so many examples. If. you're inconvenient, you're going to.

cost them billions of dollars and they. can just get rid of you. They just get. rid of you. >> Mhm. >> Whoever they are. >> Yeah. It it all comes down to money and. it has for a very long time. >> Someone was uh deciding if this was. accurate. They found a case where. someone shot themselves in the head. eight times. >> Oh, that's a lot. >> So, there's a couple cases where it's. >> boy, that's a commitment. >> I mean, I guess if it was like an. airsoft gun or something, [snorts]. >> I don't think that killed it. >> That'd be a really inefficient way to. kill yourself. >> Yeah. The whole thing's crazy. >> Do you think it's even possible to kill.

>> an airsoft gun? >> Maybe. >> if you like a labbotomy kind of if you. shot yourself up the nose eight times. >> It's not that fast. >> It's not, is it? >> I mean, it might. >> the brand new CO2 cartridge. >> infection. >> Oh, that's See, so you could. >> I guess if you got enough airsoft. bullets in you. >> just fills up your entire nasal cap. >> You never went to the doctor. [laughter]. Maybe you eventually get an infection. >> I think somebody might intervene at that. point. When I was uh living in LA, when. I first moved there, a guy had killed. himself accidentally on a set because he.

took a gun that was a blank gun and he. shot himself in the head like trying to. be funny. >> and it killed him cuz the force that. comes out of the gun is still extremely. powerful and he put it to his temple and. he. >> literally caved his skull in. >> Ah, that sucks. >> Yeah, >> that's rough. >> Yeah, it was just an actor who just. didn't know any better and he thought he. was just going to be funny. >> Yeah. So, shooting yourself in the head. twice, highly unlikely. >> Eight times. >> But I guess you could shoot yourself in. the head once and just really [ __ ] it.

up, but be aware that you're still alive. and be committed to doing it and then. shoot yourself a second time. I guess. it's possible. >> I mean, unless the pain response was. like, "Yeah, that didn't feel good. I. don't want to do that again.". >> Or maybe the pain response was so bad. you want to do it again just to. >> That's a good point. Yeah. Like, whoops, let's get this over with. >> I don't know. But our point, what we're. getting at is that for the longest time, there was no real outlet to get true. information out other than books. And. books are so easily maligned. You know,

if someone has a cookie book, you read. it, you go, "Oh, that guy's nuts. That. that is a conspiracy theory." And then, of course, that term is popularized. during the JFK assassination because. that very reason. There was a lot of. people that doubted the official story. and those people became conspiracy. theorists. >> Have you looked into that much? >> Oh, yeah. I kind of thought you had. Who. do you think did it? >> I think there was a lot of people. I. think here's a mistake that people make. They say Lee Harvey Oswald acted alone. or Lee Harvey Oswald wasn't involved and.

he was a pathy. Lee Harvey Oswald shot a. cop. There really there's like very few. people that disagree on that. I think. it's officer Tippet. I think that was. his name. >> Uh when he was on the run. So Lee Harvey. Oswald absolutely seems to be some sort. of an intelligence asset in some way or. another. married a Russian woman, lived. in Russia for a while, came back to the. United States during the time of. >> the whole I mean this is right after the. Red Scare. The fact that this guy went. to Russia, married a Russian woman, came. back and like the whole thing screwy. >> He could have been a psy and involved.

too, right? >> Absolutely. >> I heard some theory once about like the. driver turned around somehow gun or was. there something about like a poisonous. fish? >> That's all all horseshit. >> That's why I was asking cuz I don't. know. Well, there's a lot of those. One. of the best ways to make a conspiracy. theory seem absolutely ridiculous is to. add a bunch of really silly ones into. the mix. And so that any conspiracy. theory involving something that's not. the official narrative. >> But there's just so many aspects of the.

Kennedy assassination, the back and to. the left, the head shot, the shot in the. neck from the front, the magic bullet, which is prepost is the most. preposterous. There's a lot of them. There's a lot of these weird aspects to. it. And there's also the fact that Kenny. was very hated. Also the fact that um. you know it's in De Plaza which is like. why would you ever drive someone through. there in a convertible? That's the. president. That's a very. >> you know any president is po you know we.

think of JFK was the most loved. president for right by half the country. That's how it always is folks. >> There's always half the country that. thinks you suck and half the country. that loves you. That's how it was with. Clinton. That's how it was with Obama. That's how it is with everybody. >> Yeah. No, we don't tend to agree on. those things. Entire humanity. >> There was a lot of people that were very. happy when he died, including Dulles. So. Dulles was fired by JFK and then was on. the Warren Commission invent.

investigating JFK's assassination, which. is hilarious. >> It's kind of crazy. Richard Nixon also. in the Warren Commission. The Warren. Commission. There's a great book on it. uh called best evidence by David Lifton. and he was uh an accountant that was. hired to do something uh with the Warren. Commission some something aspect of the. Warren Commission. So he decides to read. the whole thing. It's a huge amount of. pages. I forget how many pages are in. the Warren Commission report. I think. it's at least 900 pages. So he reads the.

whole thing and after it he comes this. conclusion like there's so many. inconsistencies. There's so many. contradictions. There's like this this. doesn't make any sense. Like they were. trying to reach a conclusion. >> So many of the witnesses that saw the. assassination died in very weird deaths. The statistical possibility or. probability of all those people dying. from murder, suicide, car accidents, you. know, it's just too weird. It's too. weird. What about the UFO connection?

Like that's the one I hear. >> I don't know. >> Like CIA ties and I don't know. I I. don't know what's [ __ ] and what's. not, you know? Like. >> Yeah, >> there was clearly like we had the. technology for 20 years at that point. But yeah, >> what what does a president even know? >> I I don't know what they know. I I don't. know whether or not they would kill him. for that. That doesn't make any sense. That doesn't make any sense. You know the Nixon story with uh Jackie. Gleason? >> No, I don't think so.

>> You don't know that story? Uhuh. >> The story is that Jackie Gleason and. Nixon were drinking one day and uh you. know they were friends and Nixon was. like. >> want to see a [ __ ] UFO. [laughter]. They get in a plane and he took him to. was it Right Patterson Jamie? Do you. remember? I think it was somewhere in. Florida, but I don't they I remember. when we looked this up, they said. there's he went somewhere. I'll look it. up right now. >> So anyway, um supposedly sees this. recovered craft and bodies that are in.

freezers. So Jackie Gleason, one thing's. true about this, he became obsessed with. UFOs. That is true. And. >> and it'd be hard not to after something. like that. >> Yeah, >> there's definitely a catalyst. >> Imagine I mean [ __ ] dude right now. someone took me if uh Trump called me. up. want to see some [ __ ] like. [laughter]. >> and all of a sudden I'm standing in. front of some craft that's made of this. unknown alloy. >> and especially some of the weirder. stories where you have a craft that's. like 40 ft wide. You go inside of it, it's bigger than a football field.

>> That's wild. >> So, here it is. Uh Nixon arranged for. him to visit Homestead Air Force Base in. Florida. Upon his arrival, armed guards. took Gleon to a building at a remote. location on the site. There, Gleon, who. harbored an intense interest in UFOs, saw the imbalmed bodies of four alien. beings, 2 feet long with small bald. heads and big ears. [clears throat] He. was told nothing about the circumstances. of their recovery. He swore his wife to. secrecy, but after their divorce, Beverly freely discussed the story. In. the mid80s, UFO ufologist Larry Bryant.

sued the US government to get it to. reveal its UFO secrets. He tried without. success to subpoena Gleason. Wow. You. want to subpoena Gleason? Yo, that's. crazy. >> I mean, he could just plead the fifth. the whole time. >> Oh, yeah. I was drunk. I don't remember. anything. >> Yeah, exactly. >> Yeah. I mean, how would you know? But. the but Gleon built a house in upstate. New York. >> Oh, yeah. I heard about that. >> That looks like a UFO, >> right? Isn't it for sale right now? >> It is right now. Yeah, we thought about. buying it. >> I did. I looked that up one time. I. don't remember why, but it's it's kind.

of kind of cool, I guess. >> Yeah, it's kind of cool, but the problem. is if we bought it, everybody would know. that that's ours. >> Yeah, true. like, "Oh, Joe Rogan's got. the UFO house to and then they'd visit. and [ __ ] up my vacation.". >> That's true. [laughter]. >> That's always bound to happen. I. remember. Uh, >> that's the house. >> Very gold. >> Look at the house. >> I mean, come on, man. That's pretty. sweet. >> [ __ ] crazy. >> Something happened. He was He was There. was a catalyst involved in his interest. Well, I mean, if you're friends with. Nixon, and this is in the 1960s, and.

this all this stuff is. >> Yeah, I saw an interview with Barry. Goldwater where he was talking. >> dope house, by the way. >> Talking about asking uh asking some. commander or general about what's it. right, Pat? And I guess he just cussed. him out, Barry Goldwater. He was like, "Don't ever [ __ ] ask me that again.". Yeah. >> Really? Yeah. He cussed out Barry. Goldwater. >> He was uh Yeah, I don't think he was. ever pres candidate for president, but. >> yeah. No, they there's [clears throat]. people that don't want us to know. The. the big thing going around now is that. Dick Cheney was the ring leader of all.

of this. The deep state, the UFO. secrets, the. the gatekeepers. >> Wow. He had to know. >> Of course, >> that guy had to know. >> Kissinger, too. Probably like the legacy. programs. These are legacy people. >> Well, someone has got to talk, right? But it's like, but at to what level? And. the idea, here's here's the really. erroneous idea that a lot of people. hold. People can't keep a secret. Of. course they can. >> Of course they can.

>> Especially when their life's being. >> Of course they can. Especially if I mean. there are certain programs that if you. disclose the existence of this program, it is considered treason. >> and they're allowed to execute you for. that. >> So you have to take that into. consideration. >> I would keep a secret if that was the. case. >> Of course. Then you have to take into. consideration the immense amount of. money and this is discussed really um. very comprehensively in the agent. disclosure documentary. I think they did. a great job of highlighting the whole.

problem with the misappropriation of. funds. So someone had to lie to. Congress. If they have these back. engineering programs, if they've been. spending as much as a trillion dollars. over the course of x amount of years, >> yeah, where's that? >> Where's that money? And who lied and who. who benefited from it? what military. contractors were allowed to have this. stuff to backineer it. What process has. taken place to shield the American. public from that? And what profits have. they made from that that made them like.

much more like anti-competition against. other military contractors to keep a. secret too. It's not just you might get. killed, but there's a lot of profit. potential in this and we don't want our. competitors to. >> also a lot of fraud, I'm sure. Yeah. >> Like with any no oversight at all and a. shitload of money. >> Black money. >> Oh my god. >> It's there's not a chance in hell that. there wasn't some money that went into. people's pockets. >> Human nature takes over and people are.

like, "Well, I could just keep some of. that.". >> Yeah. >> Nobody's watching the till. >> Yeah. I mean, look, we we're finding. that with things just like Black Lives. Matter. It was massive fraud. like just. like just nonprofit organizations. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. Like I don't I don't want to start. [ __ ] on NOS's or anything, but. that's a big reason why I don't give. money to I I'll find, you know, smaller. organizations doing thing on a local. level, but. >> Yeah. local stuff you can trust. >> Yeah. Absolutely. You get big enough, it's just that happens. >> Yeah. And of course, if you're talking.

trillions of dollars, black money that. nobody's tracing, and I mean, that was. one of David Grush's arguments, too, is. that these whistleblowers. are exposing crimes, you know, fraud, potential murder, uh that happened to. keep these secrets. So, >> yeah, it's a complex, it's a very. nuanced situation that will we will have. to move past if we are going to have. disclosure in some capacity, however. that happens. I mean, amnesty has been. talked about for some people. >> That was in the the documentary. That.

was this the road out of this, which. totally makes sense to me. Look, what is. really important? The fraud has already. taken place. If people are prosecuted. for the fraud, guess what? If we don't. release it, they'll never be prosecuted. for the fraud anyway. >> Yeah. And what's the alternative? We. wait until they die and then talk about. it. I would rather just give them. amnesty now and then let them die. without these secrets going to their. deathbed with them. >> But just not only that, if they're. misappropriating funds, they're not just. doing it 30 years ago. They're doing it. last week. So now the current people. also have. >> That's a good point. >> an incentive to not disclose.

>> Yeah. >> Unless you have mass amnesty to say, listen, let's just forget about all this. stuff. Then the problem with that is all. those people that are profiting off of. it right now and also funneling money. into whatever NOS's they have and and. misappropriation of money and. >> what do we do with that IP too? like the. intellectual property that say North. Grumand or whoever has uh Boeing like do. we share that now? Do they have to give. that up and spread it across the. industry? >> Yeah, it's all weird man. It's very.

weird because there's been a a few. inventions that came about after Roswell. that a lot of people say like this does. not make any sense. >> Yeah. Fiber optics is one. >> Transistor is another one. >> Yeah. >> This there's a lot of weirdness. People. say, "Oh, there's a direct. >> scientific research that shows how they. made it." Yeah, but there's not. If you. go into it, it's it's like there's a. giant leap that gets made that's real. weird. >> I mean, I'll take more leaps, man. Like. like honestly, these craft are being. empowered by something that's very very.

energized, you know? And if we could use. that to. [sighs] I mean, I'm I'm I pay a lot in. utilities bills, [laughter] you know? I. was going to talk about like climate. change or some [ __ ] and then I made. about myself and my utilities. You could. have your own zero point energy. generator in your backyard. Never have. to worry about power again. Never have. to worry about the grid. >> 90, you know, have as many Christmas. lights as I want. >> Yeah. Never worry about the grid. The. grid doesn't exist anymore. >> Doesn't exist. I mean, imagine that from. an infrastructure level. And there's so.

many implications. >> And. >> if it's real. >> If it's real. >> You think it's real? You're convinced, huh? >> I'm convinced it is. Yeah. I mean, it. makes sense. There's so much energy. trapped within the space between, you. know. Like. >> that's that's what it is. Even at 0. degrees. >> energiz if you can try to explain the. concept of zero point energy. >> Man that's beyond my pay grade. Other. than that I know that it is infinitely. times more energetic than what you get. when you split an atom or fuse atoms.

together. the nuclear force. My. understanding, again, very limited. knowledge, is that. even when you take a molecule, particle, whatever, and you freeze it down to 0. degrees, there's still energy inside of. that. And there's energy at a subquantum. level that if we could tap into that, it. would provide infinite energy. The. downside is it would also make a bomb. that is much much more powerful than the.

biggest hydrogen bomb because you're. releasing that energy in a way that's. irresponsible. There's this quote going. around by Io Wilson uh famed biologist. on I think I saw it on Twitter that was. like we have um prehistoric emotions, medieval institutions, and godlike. technology. basically saying we're. [ __ ]. >> because we've [laughter] got. >> we're like little kids playing with. chainsaws, you know. >> But but zero point guns. Little kids. playing with guns. >> Yeah, exactly. But zero points kind of.

that next thing like when Einstein. E= MC², you know, there's all this. energy and mass and if we, you know, split these atoms, combine these atoms, we can release that energy. Sweet. But. hundreds of thousands of people died in. Japan, you know. So what's what's the. flip side of zero point? Like it would. definitely unlock a lot of potential, but are are we responsible enough as a. species to handle that type of energy. >> right currently? No.

>> Eio Wilson says no and I'm on board with. anything he says. >> Well, I'm on board with it. Just look at. what's happening in Ukraine. Look at. what's happening in Gaza. Look what's I. mean, there's full scale war scary [ __ ]. It's happening right now in various. parts of the world where, you know, we're just. >> yeah, blowing people to smitherines. >> And you know what, that's kind of an. interesting argument about the um the. whole time travel thing. You know, there's these genocides. There's. genocide happening now in Gaza. It blows. my mind that we can still have genocides. and just not do anything about it. But.

like polepot, you know, three, four. million people killed, the Holocaust, Darur, but but these aliens don't seem to care. about us. It was something that John. Mack noticed. Um he wrote about it a. lot. They're really focused on the. Earth, you know, they care about this. planet. They don't necessarily care. about us. >> as individuals, >> as a species. Well, clearly they care as. a species, >> but they do kind of care as individuals. The people that get picked up are often. times, obviously there's cases where.

this this doesn't happen, but they're. cared for. They're told no harm will. come to you. You know, um, uh, Barney. Hill was told that. It's it's a common. commonly repeated thing. So, they take. care of people. They give us screen. memories to try to hide what they did. They sometimes give people tours of the. ship. They seemingly care about us as. individuals, but not when we start. murdering each other on a massive scale. They've never intervened in these. things, >> right? >> However, they have demonstrated their. ability and willingness to shut down.

nukes. They might intervene if we move. to the point where we're not just. destroying ourselves, but we're. destroying the planet that they may also. call home in the future. If they are. future humans, that whole care for the. planet, take care of the planet. They. told the kids in Zimbabwe, they told the. kids in Wales during this other. incident. They tell these contacties all. the time, take care of the plant, take. care of the planet. They don't seem to. care about us and it might actually. benefit them if we don't screw up this.

planet either through nuking ourselves. or just all of the other things we do to. it cuz we're kind of parasitic in a way. >> Well, also if they are us in the future, we probably have to go through all this. to realize the folly of our ways. >> That's a good point. Dark Knight of the. soul kind of. >> Yeah. I mean, clearly we're getting. better. I mean, we're still horrible, but we're better today than we were. during the Viking days. We're better. today than we were during the time of. Genghaskhan. We're we're we're better. We're more civilized. We're more. peaceful. There's less war, even though.

there's still war. So, it's it's a slow, gradual shift of consciousness that. probably is going to be accelerated by. technology, >> especially if there is some sort of a. technology that connects us. telepathically and allows people to read. minds. One of the things that Elon. famously said about his neural link, he's like, "You're going to be able to. talk without words.". >> Yeah. I had a whole section in my first. book about that. The the question of. whether it's a technology mediated. brain-to-brain communication or if.

there's something about our. consciousness that allows us to. communicate telepathically without some. sort of technology. And I kind of I did. that my my friend Jeff Jeff Crapel. pointed this out. He's like, "I see why. you did that." You know, you're like, "Well, what if it is technology?" And. there's a lot of studies that have shown. we can communicate through some sort of. computer medium, but so many people in. contact cases who are spoken to or can. speak to the visitors telepathically. don't have that. There's also all of the.

research of Dean Raiden at ions and all. of his other studies that he's put out. that show people have telepathic. abilities with very very strong P values. statistically showing that we have this. ability. I think a lot of people have it. and just don't realize, but it does seem. like we're moving in that direction. Like you were talking about the. evolution of consciousness. It seems. like we're sort of moving to that. Whether neurolink has anything to do. with it or any sort of computer mediated. braintobrain transmission, I think we're. just becoming telepathic and unlocking.

these abilities that have always sort of. lied dormant within us. >> Yeah. I've often asked the question, is. it one of two things? Is this uh a new. emerging aspect of human consciousness. or is this an aspect of human. consciousness that exists before verbal. speech? >> Mhm. >> And then verbal speech and then of. course the written word video all that. stuff. We It just became completely.

non useful to us. >> It's like we lost it and we're trying to. get. >> it atrophied. Yeah. >> I mean you had Kai Dickens on. Uh the. telepathy tapes were hugely impactful. and and a lot of those episodes show. that this is actually extremely common, >> you know, >> and it and it seems like that's kind of. where we're going. I look at that as. another. >> indication that these are us in the. future, that their main form of. communication is telepathy, and we're. already seemingly moving in that. direction. >> What do you make of the tridactyl.

mummies in Peru? >> Can we pee first? >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> Oh, do that right now. >> Sweet. >> We'll be right back, folks. go to um Jay. Anderson's uh X page. It's uh Project. Unity. >> Yeah, I saw he's coming on soon. >> Yeah, he So Jay Anderson just released. this and Jesse Michaels actually went. down to Peru and actually saw those. things and handled them in p in person. and he said it was [ __ ] surreal. He. said they are real creatures. Whatever. they were, it is a real thing and they.

look exactly like an alien. He has a. video that he just released, Jamie. I. think it's a a video that he's releasing. um on um. that's it right there. Uh so scans. reveal this ancient alien looking mummy. has a baby inside of her. That's well. that's one of them. So these things like whatever this is is.

Can we get volume so you can hear what. he's saying? hair. She has slightly smaller stature. and slighter build than Maria, but. shares the same natural mummification. with skin covering parts of the body. Her skull is elongated with large eye. orbits and cranial volume comparable to. Maria's. Importantly, Monserat CT scans. revealed that she was carrying in her. abdominal cavity. The team identified a. developing fetal form being visible on. the scans. A tiny tridactyl embryo with.

skeletal structure curled in a womb-like. space. This confirms that Monserat was. pregnant with at least one advanced. fetus. Monserat also contains an. astonishing array of metallic implants, at least 10 distinct metal implants. embedded into her body. These include. four small round implants in her skull, two on each side. several in her chest. and thoracic area and others along her. arm and leg bones as per the CT images. They're described as very dense and made.

of rare metals, osmium and gold. Additionally, Monserat's chest anatomy. is peculiar. She has an expanded rib. cage without a sternum like the other. triactyls and an interclavical bone, an. extra bone at the shoulder girdle. Noted. by researchers, her spine is continuous. into the skull. again demonstrated that. cranioervical canal has been one of the. most deeply analyzed specimens. Highresolution. 128 slice CT scans were performed and a. full 3D virtual autopsy was conducted.

The scans confirmed Monzerat's pregnancy. with tridactyl features. I mean, how strange is this? Like, what is that? And these are in Peru, the same place. where you get the Nazca lines. It's the. same place where you have Sako Himmon. You have these incredible structures. that defy logic defy conventional. construction methods and especially. >> and like like the owl man, you know, the.

big petroglyph on the side of the hill. that can only be appreciated from space. >> There's a lot of weirdness. >> There's a lot of weirdness from Peru. Peru seems like a very extraordinary. place. And at one point in time, >> um, well, also the the ancient, uh, artistic depictions of these exact. beings, there's these ancient tapestries. and ancient art pieces that show these. three-fingered, three-toed beings, and. this is all like a part of their.

folklore. And then you have these actual. creatures like that thing is 1,400. years old, I think it is. So if if that. that's the carbon date on that mummy. So. I think it's that old. There's one. that's 1,200 and I think the oldest one. is like 1400. >> That sounds right. Yeah, >> something like that. But like whatever. that is like there's not a chance in. [ __ ] hell that people back then had. the ability to fake that in that with. that depth. You see tendon structures, ligaments, you have a completely.

different skeletal structure, no. sternum, different clavicle bones. It's. [ __ ] cranial facial anatomy. Three. fingers, three toes, which is by the way. exactly what Lazar described I believe. as or some people have described as like. the control. It might not be Lazar the. controls inside the craft that they have. observed that had these three fingered. things. >> Vargu Brazil those things had three. fingers and three toes. >> So the question is like. >> they saw footprints too in that case, didn't they? >> Yeah. Well, they supposedly one of the.

soldiers. >> carried a hurt and injured. >> whatever it is. Yeah, there were three. women that saw it too, like in alley or. something. >> Yeah, that's the moment of contact. documentary. Very good. Very good James. Fox documentary. >> It is. I watched that with James Fox pre. before we released it. We were at the. same conference and they. >> Crazy documentary. >> Yeah, it's really good. >> Um, but those things look exactly like. that. >> Yeah. Way described. It'd be cool if. they still had eyeballs cuz they said. they had red eyes and then doco, which.

would be kind of crazy. >> Whatever these things are, they're they. are the same size. and in the same. shape. And they're also that thing, that. tridactyl thing. What does it look like? It looks exactly like a gray. It's. small. It has a big head. It has big. eyes. It's very thin, thin body. Like. when you look at its body when it's. curled up in the fetal position is no. muscle. It's very small. >> There's definitely I mean there's. variation in within the way these things. are described. Unfortunately, until we. have like, you know, dude got to go with.

Nixon to see these things in liquid. That that's like a wet dream of mine, man. I would love to go see these things. and like study them. As a biological. anthropologist, that would be the holy. grail for me. >> Actually, somewhere that you could go. right now on Earth, if you knew the. right guy, he'd let you see that. >> Absolutely. Yeah. >> I'm sure there's many, many examples of. these things. >> I would argue in multiple places that. I'm not allowed to go see and it makes. me mad. Oh. >> Um, but what is your take when you see.

these things? >> Right. So, I've always been outwardly. critical of them, except. I guess the question is which ones. And what do we mean by real? Like, these. are obviously real. These are things. that aren't a fairy tale. I mean, they. make their way into the lore. So, we do. have to take that in the same way that. these, you know, ancient stories about. things that are very similar to the UFO. phenomenon. >> But this is an actual physical model.

>> That's what I'm saying. That's what I'm. saying. This isn't make believe. This is. a real thing. >> I have been highly critical of the. little ones. >> Oh, yeah. There's some fake ones. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But when I first started talking about. these, those were conventionally. understood to be real, too. >> Oh, really? >> I got a lot of [ __ ] for that. I actually. retired from the mummy thing. I'm happy. to come out of retirement for you, Joe. But I retired from the mummy thing cuz I. was getting trolled so hard, so. aggressively. I'm like, I'm out. I don't.

give a [ __ ] by people that thought they. were real. >> Yeah, >> but they look fake. >> The difference between those. >> See, we all say that now. We weren't. saying that even three or four years. ago. >> Oh, I definitely was. >> Well, yeah. You look at them, it's very. obvious. But a lot of people are like, "No, no, these are so real. Those are. still believe in Bigfoot.". >> And that's why I have to sort of. approach this cautiously because I I. will admit scientists don't do this. enough. I will admit I haven't looked. into those, so I don't want to form an opinion about. them until I have. I have extensively.

looked into the small ones. I forget. what they're called. They have cute. little names and they're little dolls. They're made out of animal bones, human. bones, uh, backward llama skulls. They're put together. I I've been looking at these long enough. that I remember when they were held. together by pieces of wire and metal. Like, they didn't even try to really. hide that. you x-ray them like, "Oh, Jesus Christ." You know, but but then we. moved away from that to like, "Oh, they're using better materials to hide. the fact that they're sticking these.

together as little dolls." And now, fortunately, we've at least moved past. um to the point where most people are. just focusing on these big ones uh with. the fingers and the toes and the. elongated skulls. Again, I don't want to. speak to those because I haven't looked. into it enough. I don't have an informed. opinion, but the little dolls, one thing. that that concerns me that I think is a. red flag is that the little dolls that. are now conventionally understood to be. fake have the same dietimmacous earth.

characteristics. as these. And there's also I I think if. they really want to prove these are. real, do more to highlight the. provenience of them. In archaeology, the. way that we understand the way things. are related is by doing a massive, as. I've mentioned earlier, very boring. survey of how things are located in. threedimensional space. And over time, >> I think there's a problem with that is. that some of these people have lied. about where they got them because. they're essentially grave robbing.

>> They're grave robbing. Exactly. And. that's a big problem and an ethical. issue that needs to be addressed, too. But so like as an example, the rising. star cave, Homo Noliti, uh they did, you. know, Lee Burgerer who's actually I. guess my um my academic brother because. we had the same PhD adviser. He was at. Ohio State when he was my adviser and he. was at Johannesburg uh University of. Rogers in Johannesburg for him. Um but. this rising star cave very meticulously.

hard to get to, you know, really hard. They had he had to lose like 50 lbs to. even get down in here to see his own. site. But they map it out. They study. where everything is, where it comes. from, and they publicly release that. information. Yeah. Like this is. extremely hard. >> to get into. But we have a very deep. knowledge of the provenience of all of. the artifacts and the features and the. remains at this site. We're not getting. that with these mummies. >> And that that troubles me with the issue. of the dietmacous earth being painted.

on. And it kind of makes it seem like. they did these slits in the eyes on. purpose. >> to the mummies. >> Yeah. Doesn't it seem like they kind of. went like this with like a pen or. something? >> Let me see it again. Can I see some. images of them? >> Tried or? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. The big. >> I never saw that. >> Um, it didn't seem like that to me. It. seemed like. >> there's a little slit. >> That's their eyelids closed. >> Yeah, but they wouldn't have eyelids, would they? >> Well, how do we know that? >> I mean, you take off the dietmacous. earth and you see, I guess, >> right? But why would we think they don't. have eyelids?

>> Oh, no. Well, I'm saying that maybe they. do when they were alive. >> Well, I mean, we see grays or what, you. know, people describe as grays, but. these seems a little bit different than. what people describe as grays. It seems. like. >> there's definitely intentional cranial. modification. They have all the telltale. signs of Yeah. So, I actually one of my. questions on my. >> It's not possible that they have a. totally different designed skull. >> Oh, yeah. If they are some sort of. extraterrestrial, absolutely. But I'm. saying like when and then this happens. all over the world and it happened in.

that region of Peru too that they were. manipulating children's skulls. The Maya. did that. >> unique fingerprints. Look at that. >> Yeah. Like I said, I don't have an. opinion about these. >> But here's the question about some red. flags for me. >> The modification of skulls. Were they. modifying skulls to try to emulate these. people or these things? That's the. question. >> That's one of the actual scientific. explanations for it. There's this paper. by Gearson and Gearson from 1995 where. they interviewed people said why why are. you doing this because they were still. doing it.

>> long enough into modern times that we. could ask them we could interview them. and one of the reasons is because the. gods instructed them to do this. >> who are the gods you know again this. comes back to that and and what is the. end result of this intentional cranial. modification is that they have the. larger more gray alien type skull so. yeah I would absolutely agree that. that's probably a part of it. Um I I I. don't have an opinion about the big. ones. The little ones pissed me off and.

then everybody pissed me off more when I. told them they were [ __ ]. >> We should show p people of the little. ones for context cuz they do look so. fake. >> Yeah. And they brought these out at. that, you know, Mexican congress. >> and the guy who brought it out had been. hoaxing with other things, right? Didn't. he have a history? Look at the [ __ ]. she's got a little dress on. [laughter]. >> Yeah. And these are an extreme version. There's some other ones that. >> look a little better. >> Yeah, >> but they do look fake. When I look at. that, I'm not interested in that. >> Exactly. And that's what I was calling. out back, you know, 5 years.

>> Back down a little bit, Jamie. Um below. the tridactyl till you get to that one. right there, like the the one next to. your cursor to the right. Yeah. That. looks so rigid and stiff and fake. >> That's one of them. >> Like, why is it so straight and flat? Like that doesn't make any sense. Why is. it shoulders built like that? That looks. fake as [ __ ] That looks like a doll. >> But the tridactyls. Now, click an image. on one of the tridactyls. >> I mean, these were called tridactyls, too. That's why I was. >> right. But look at that thing. That's.

weird. >> That has an anatomy that's much more. consistent with a living thing. One of. the criticisms was that these things. couldn't move. Like that little doll. with a straight rib cage, like the the. legs, which we can identify as specific. animals, they're like flipped around. They're just stuck together. Like these. things couldn't walk. There's a form. follows function aspect of these that. just doesn't make any sense. And the. list goes on. I I actually in that. cryptoaterrestrial paper where we broke. in and ate all the mushrooms. >> I actually published a critique of these. things in that paper. Um, but just.

talking about these little ones, >> I think those little ones were people. trying to make copies of those things. because they were probably selling them. to wealthy investors or wealthy, you. know, in enthusiasts. >> because like if one of those things were. for sale and some guy from Saudi Arabia. was like, I want one in my home. >> And, you know, he he gave them a $100. million, like for sure that thing would. vanish. >> And then all everybody's going to find. out and start making more, >> right? of course you make the little stupid.

fake ones. >> and unfortunately that did leave lead to. grave robbing um. >> which is a crime and really sad. desecrate graves. >> for sure but there's also such a small. amount of excavation that it makes you. ponder like how many of these are there. right now that we have not discovered. like what is is it possible that this is. one of many that are out there in Peru. right now where you can't find them and. also why Peru. And why why the Nazka lines? The Nazca.

lines are absolutely fascinating. It's. artwork that you can only see from the. sky. Like. >> what motivation to people a thousand. plus years ago at least have to make. artwork that you can only see from the. sky? >> Yeah. And especially if you I mean the. the obvious thing would be that they're. trying to get these advanced beings that. make them come uh come down from the sky. and like interact with them again. You. know, like who wouldn't? A lot of a lot.

of contactes are really upset about what. happens. Whitley Streber is a great. example. This goes for a lot of people, but he felt violated. He felt raped the. first time and then over time he missed. them and wanted them to come back. And. that's what we find over and over. One. of the best resources currently is the. Dr. Edgra Mitchell free study that. interviewed thousands of contactes and. abductees and there's these common. themes across these different cases and. and one of them is that people 85% of. people who interacted with a more.

humanlike entity enjoyed their. experience. And that's another thing. that we have to combat with the stigma. and this forced shame that comes with. talking about this and what has happened. in in TV and movies over the years is. that we have this sense that abductions. are horrifying and everyone's picked up. and probed and hurt and that does. happen. But most people based on what. contactees actually say it was a benign. or enjoyable experience. >> Well, they're probably terrified because. it's so strange. It probably freaks you.

out. >> It's the onlogical shock aspect. >> Oh, it has to be. What they also found. is that with repeated contact, once that. ontological shot goes away, they're. like, "Whoa, that was kind of cool, actually. I wish I could have more of. that." Like, >> that makes sense. >> And and then people come to enjoy it, you know? >> That makes sense. I You know, I talked. about this on Jesse Michael show. I. talked about it here. I had a very. strong. >> That was a great interview, by the way. >> Thank you. It was cool. >> I love Jesse. He's awesome and he's the. best. >> Can we talk about your dream, too, by. the way? >> That's what I was just going to talk. about. >> Oh, no [ __ ]. >> Yeah. That's why I said I talked about. it on Jesse and I talked about it here.

that that dream was the most realistic. dream I've ever had in my life. It is a. problem and that dream is a couple. months ago now and um I think any. recounting of that dream is essentially. me recounting my recounting of the. dream. >> It gets weird. Um but what I do remember. was it was the most vivid dream I have. ever had in my life and that I could not. go back to sleep which is really rare. I. am I am a good sleeper. I I'm I'm always. go go go go go go go go go go go go go.

go go go go go go go go go go go go and. by the time it's time to go to bed I. [ __ ] crash. I'm I'm easy to So for me. to not be able to go back to sleep was. so st I mean wide awake just lying in. bed I mean fully awake for an hour and. waiting for it to dissipate and I'm like. this isn't going away. I'm just going to. go work out. So I just went to the gym. and just tried to like think about like. what just happened? Why did that why was. that so real? One of the things about it. was they were shocking me and then.

laughing. They were trying to relax me. They were trying to get me to. at least my perception of it in the. dream was they were trying to get me to. calm down. from the shock of interacting with these. things that aren't human. They were. humanlike. They almost seemed like their. skin coloration was like like us but. like maybe a little more tan or like a. little more like not tan but like a. yellow.

>> Um yeah, more yellow than tan. And they. had it looked like clothing, but the. clothing was the same color as her skin, but the clothing wasn't distinctive. It. was like almost like a rash guard that. they were wearing and they were very. slender. And uh. >> what's a rash guard? Uh, rash guard is. like what surfers wear, you know, like. they wear it's like um a stretchy. material that's skin tight that goes on. your body and it keeps you from getting. scratched up by stuff. It keeps you from.

getting rashes, you know, you wear it on. your legs. You ever see surfers do it? Jiu-Jitsu guys wear it when they roll. >> We wear rash guards. Um, so it's Show. them what a rash guard looks like. >> And that's they had a whole suit of. that. >> Um, that's what it looks like. Yeah. Right on. >> So that's a jack guy with a rash guard. on. These things were not jacked and. there was no creases. There was no there. was no lines that indicated that it was. cloth. But I. >> they had a humanoid form like arms, legs, >> but very thin. Very thin like Michael. Jackson like super slender like.

genderless genderless Michael Jackson. like the old days that when he, you. know, really thin like really thin and I. I had no sense of what they felt like. men to me. Uh maybe it was because the. way they were joking with they were like. and they were like just joking around. and I was. >> which is a very male thing. You wouldn't. expect a nurturing female. >> maybe a fun chick. >> Yeah. >> Like woo. Uh but whatever it was, they. were talking to me without talking to.

me. And there was some sort of. communication that I was trying to. absorb where they were telling me to. relax. And. >> telepathically, were they moving their. mouths? No, they weren't moving their. mouth, but they were able to smile at. me, >> which is what they did when they But I. don't remember I don't even really. remember teeth. I just remember. >> it being so weird. So weird that them. them scaring me and going, "Ah, just. [ __ ] around like was like I'm like I. got it." I was like, "Okay, I get it. You want me to calm down?" And then they.

were telling me just relax. Just relax. and try to take this in. And it didn't. last for very long. I don't think dreams. are hard to decide. after that like when. they were saying take this in were they. talking about being there in the. environment or were they communicating. something. >> distinct impression that this was. >> a first meeting. >> that's what it felt like maybe we'll see. you again breaking down some we won't. but I want to let you know that like if. you wanted to introduce someone to a. life form from somewhere else and you.

wanted them to have prolonged exposure. to it I would imagine you'd want to do. it briefly and shockingly where it felt. really weird and then at the end of it. they're not even sure if it really. happened at all and then slowly. >> over a long period of time when the. person gets to adapt and they make a. decision. It's time. >> It's just like what we were talking. about with the onlogical shock. Get past. that and then you can move on with. whatever is. >> because it was very brief. >> Very very shocking and very brief. >> Well, I mean was it though? Because when.

when you're in a dream state, time and. space kind of get manipulated anyway. Isn't it possible that you are actually. interacting for a longer time? Or do you. mean just from like start to finish was. like here we are, I'm going to [ __ ] with. you for a little bit and then it's over. >> Well, that's what it felt like when I. woke up. So, when I woke up, it felt. like it happened so quickly and then it. was over. But I don't know, you know, I. don't know. I mean, I was asleep for it. was like 3:00 in the morning. So, I was. probably asleep for I probably went to. bed at like 11:00, something like that.

So, I wasn't asleep for very long. Um, maybe I went to bed a little later. I. don't remember. But what I do remember. was the shock of it was it was different. than any other dream I'd ever had where. it was like like this is this is a real. thing. This and it I was in a corridor. and the corridor was weirdly lit like. not lit in any way like oh there's a. light and the light is casting light. It. was like the it was weird. >> the walls and ceilings.

>> but it was it felt not normal. It felt. like some completely different way of. lighting things. >> I mean, I will mention just from doing a. bunch of research on this that one of. the most commonly described things about. people being in UFOs is the light. They. describe the light emanating from the. walls, the ceiling, everywhere without. like a point of light. Did it feel like. that? >> Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. But it almost. >> was there a curvature to the hallway at. all?

>> There was. It It almost had like an. organic aspect to it. It was. >> People say that about UFOs, too. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. >> That almost seems like a living entity. unto itself. >> Yeah. Well, I mean organic like almost. like I was in a cave or something like. that. It was a part of Earth. >> It was weird. It was really weird. And. it was really vivid. Like there the the. beings were very vivid. I can't remember. how many of them there were. >> I think three or four. >> I don't think you should write it off as. just a dream. Like I mean.

>> well most likely it was just a dream. right because I was. >> What is just a dream? >> That's the question. That's where it. gets weird. >> Like I I have come to think that that is. almost the baseline real reality more. than this. >> Oh boy. >> Yeah. [laughter] Sorry. That's kind of. why I wanted to talk about it. >> Oh, you just cracked me. >> Well, maybe. So, I had a really insane. experience in 2022 that forced me to. start thinking about what this is, what.

this physical reality is, cuz I was. shown. >> 2022. >> I call it a mini abduction. I was taken. up uh I was at a UFO conference, actually, the same one where I was. watching that with James Fox before it. came out, the Virginia case. So, I was. taken up to this room that no one was. in. I was taken on the balcony. I wasn't. allowed to leave. Um, >> by who? >> Uh, a woman who I I knew, uh, but. loosely. Basically, I was downstairs.

She saw or they saw through her, cuz. this gets really weird, that I was out. of money. I was trying to get a beer at. the bar for like 12 bucks or whatever. they charge you with these things. It. was it was a Halloween dance party. This. was October 14th, 2022. I was out of. money. She comes up and says, "Hey, I. have a key to the VIP room." We had just. come down from there where they hosted a. meet and greet with the speakers. I was. one of the speakers. So, we went up. there to get beers, stuff in my pockets. We're going to bring some to our friends. so they didn't have to pay $12 for a. beer. And then she's like, "Well, you. can't go. My friend Eric wants to talk.

to you." I was like, "Who who's Eric?". "Don't worry, you'll like him." Just. kept saying that over and over. "Don't. worry, you'll like him. You'll like. him." So, at some point, we end up on. the balcony and I'm just sitting there. I give up. I'm like, "Fine, I guess I'm. just waiting for this Eric guy, whoever. the hell that is." So eventually Eric. comes in, pulls his chair up right into. me, like his knee is in my dick, like. straight up right here. I start to get. that I'm very much fight and the fight. or flight thing. >> And I'm like, you know, like who the.

[ __ ] this guy? Total stranger, never. seen him in my life. >> And he's his face is right here. He. says, I sense that you're angry about. this, but I need to be this close for. this to work. >> And then it just all went away. >> Whoa. perfectly fine. And they tell me. something that was that same thing that. they did to you in that dream. Something. that they knew would shock me and make. me pay attention. So about two weeks. before this, I had been washing dishes. and I just decided I wanted to quit all.

of this. I was sick of doing TV shoots. and podcasts. I just I was exhausted. Want to be home with my family. That's. it. That was just a thought. >> Just while you were washing dishes, >> washing dishes. My wife's right behind. me. Didn't tell her anything. Very next. thing he says is, "We know you've been. thinking about quitting lately and we'd. really prefer you not do that yet.". [snorts]. >> Complete stranger. I'd never seen this. guy in my life. And he knows a thought. in my head. >> that you had while washing dishes. >> from two weeks ago. >> privately. >> And my I was just like, "How could you.

possibly know that?" And they said, "I'm. going to use they cuz they used they. I. wasn't talking to this guy. I was. talking through some sort of entity or. entities through him. >> And they said, "Once you know who we. are, you'll know how we know that.". >> And I never had a telepathic moment in. my life. But I thought, "Future humans, it's all I could come up with cuz like. this is what I'm doing." They didn't. answer the question, but they did say, "So you know how we did that?" And I. just go, "Uh-huh." Like it doesn't.

[ __ ] answer the question, but in that. moment it placated me enough to move on. And there was a number of things that. transpired. We're out on this balcony. I'm in shock. I'm like, "What the hell. is going on here? How does this complete. stranger know my thoughts?" The. conversation evolved. I was allowed to. ask questions. They're like, "We know. you're frustrated. We know you're upset. with this. We'd really like you to keep. going. Is there anything you need? Is. there anything we can help with?" I was. like, "No, I'm quite happy in general. I'm just exhausted. I don't want to do.

this anymore." Like, "Yeah, we get that. We get that. We get that." And then I. was allowed to ask questions. I asked. three different questions and people. started to come back to this room. because the party was wrapping up. downstairs and they were starting to. come back to the VIP room where all the. free booze was. So that makes sense. And. we're out on this balcony. These three. women come out at one point. And this. man uh who now is like just right here, like eyes right here. I can't move. anymore. Like I lost the ability to turn.

my head. I'm just like laser focused. Said, "Can you close the door behind. you?" That was it. And these three women. turned in perfect unison, walked back. in, closed the door. Nobody came out the. rest of the time we were out there. Eventually got to the point where. they're like, "We came here cuz we need. to put three things in your brain for. some future time or times, I forget. which they said. Um, do we have your. permission to do that?" And over the. course of this interaction, I started to. remember them.

And I started to feel like a little. [ __ ] about complaining about being. tired, traveling, hotels, flights, you. know, and I was like, "Oh, that's right. I know you. I know who you are." Not. that guy. I've never seen him in my. life, but I know you. And there's a. familiarity. >> And this was like the breaking down of. me. >> to be able to get past that, to do the. things that needed to be done. They told. me what would happen. And they said that. I would continue looking, my eyes would. be open, but this darkness would come. from top to bottom and they would put.

things in my brain and I would see it. coming in, but I wouldn't have access to. it once they were done. Do you agree? They're very polite, extremely polite. Free will was conserved. Do you agree to. this? Are you okay with this? And again, at that point, I remembered them. I. recognized them. I was like, "Yes, absolutely. I agree to this." That's. exactly what happened. Eyes went dark. Still wide open. eyes went dark and I. see this massive fast stream of. information just going straight into my. brain. It was exhausting. It It didn't.

hurt, but it was like really. overwhelming. I have no idea how long. they were doing this. >> It was. >> You said you see it pulling into your. brain. >> I could see it was like I I could see I. don't I don't remember it, but I could. see and understand the moments because. And it wasn't just me. Like at one point. this conversation switched from being. vocal to telepathic. like we just. started communicating telepathically. It. was so seamless that I didn't even. really notice it happened. And. eventually I'm like, "Wait, we're not. moving our mouths. We're just talking.

with our brains." But the woman who. brought me up there in the first place. was standing on my left with her hand on. my shoulder. She would occasionally go, "Did you get that? Did you see that? That was important. Did you get that?". So she was watching it, too, and saw it. coming in as it was coming through this. individual in front of me. And I could. see it at that moment. I'd be like, "Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Uh-huh." Like, I. understood it. It all comes in. I have. no idea how long I was in that. messmerized state. But after they.

finished, that entire room had five. times more people in it. There was like. probably 20 people in this room all. looking at us like, "What the [ __ ] is. happening to masters out there?" You. know, like what is going on? They lifted. me out of this uh sight returned from. bottom to top, the opposite of what. happened before. And I stand up, turn, walk through this room. It felt like my. head was a bowling ball. Like I could. barely even lift my head. And this. woman, I think one of the ones that came. out when we were on the balcony, uh, put.

her hand on my shoulder, said, "Are you. okay?" I was just like, "Uhuh. Uh-huh.". Walked past her, fortunately, I was on. that same floor on the fourth floor of. this hotel. Walked down, lay back on the. bed with my feet still on the floor, all. my clothes on, and just slept in that. position for about 13 hours. what didn't. wake up at all. And when I woke up, I. started crying uncontrollably. Like my. my I could not stop crying. I wasn't. sad. I wasn't scared. I had a memory of. what happened the night before, but it.

was kind of fuzzy. And then as it. started to come back more and more and. more, [clears throat] uh, I started to. be like, "Oh [ __ ] like that that was. real." You know, my first thought was. like, "Oh, that that wasn't real." And. then I was allowed to remember all of. it. everything before they put me in. that state is like crystal clear in my. mind and I wrote it all down um not long. after that just to make sure I had you. know so so it wasn't me recounting me. recounting like you were saying so there. was actually like a written transcript.

of how everything happened. >> I should have done that. >> I should have probably done that but I. know that my recollection of it is. pretty accurate my recollection my. memory and I know that it was very brief. like the the encounter seemed seemed. very brief. It might have gone longer. than I think it did. >> Well, they might have done the same. thing to you. That's why I mention it. They might have done the same thing. where you weren't necessarily. allowed to remember the things that were. done. Like they told me that we're going. to do this. Are you okay with it? And.

then missing time. I have no idea how. long they were doing that. And then in a. dream state, like it could have been. dreams often skew time regardless. But. maybe if let's just say hypothetically. you were on a craft, they were breaking. you down in the same way they did me to. try to get you whether now or in the. future like you said. It might have been. an initial encounter where there's. something more going to happen later. But maybe there was more to it that they. just didn't let you have conscious. memories of. Like they told me I. wouldn't remember what they put my brain. and I don't which is just just a second.

This this is what blows my mind, man. This is [ __ ] insane. It's my brain, >> right? They put things in there. The. ability that they can even do that in. the first place is nuts. But I don't. have access to it. It's really wild. >> How do you know it's in there then? >> I watched it come in. I know it went in. and they told me that it was going to. come in and I saw it happen. But then. once it's in, >> right? But does that make any sense? Like think about it. If they're giving. you information, >> what is the point in giving someone.

information that they can't access? >> Well, that's what they said though. I. said four time or times in the future. It's it's time released. It's. timestamped. At some point, >> whatever that was that they thought was. so damn important to many abduct me at. this conference and [ __ ] with me for. about 5 months afterwards is going to. come out at some point. >> Have you ever considered the possibility. someone dropped acid into your beer? >> Yeah, I have. Um [laughter]. >> because that would be such a cruel thing. to do to someone at a UFO conference and. then [ __ ] with them and say, "Sit down,

look in my eyes. I'm going to give you. information now." you're like, "Oh my. god, it's coming. Information's coming.". >> It is. Problem is, I've done acid uh. over 200 times, so I know exactly what. that said. >> Maybe it was a flashback. >> That's what they say. That was the thing. they always I never heard of one [ __ ]. person getting a flashback, by the way. >> I know. I feel robbed, dude. Like, I was. told we crack our back and we're going. to get. >> We get a flashback when you're driving. your car, man, and you [ __ ] run into. a bus full of kids. >> It's like how they told us everybody was. going to give us free drugs on the. playground. Nope. >> Nobody ever gave me free drugs. >> No drugs.

>> No, it was not. I I had actually only. had two beers the entire night. I was. completely sober. >> So it was some kind of experience that. was very anomalous. >> Extremely. Yeah. And. >> so here's another aspect of it. They. knew my future. They knew everything. about me. They knew my thoughts. That's. how they broke me down. And they even. knew where I was going to be the next. day. They saw that it [ __ ] me up and I. was not doing well. Like I wasn't crying. cuz I was sad or scared or anything. It. was just a physiological response to. whatever they did. I'm walking down uh.

through the the main corridor to give a. book to a friend of mine, John Dover, Navajo Ranger, and that same guy comes. around the corner, comes down, puts his. hand on my shoulder, says, "Are you. okay?" I was not okay, but I go, "Uh-huh." And they fixed me somehow. His. touch on my shoulder released all of the. whatever was messing me up. They knew. where I would be at that exact moment. for him to come there. He wasn't part of. this conference. He had nothing to do. with this. He was used as some sort of.

vessel or some sort of medium for this. And whatever it means, I don't know. because the things haven't come out of. my brain yet. But they are timestamped. for the future. >> I completely believe you. >> It's not a belief. It's not a belief. They did it in a way where other people. were involved. So I didn't even get to. pretend. >> Don, what I'm saying I'm saying is I'm. saying I believe your story from you. I. have no information on it obviously. other than you telling me. >> Yeah, >> I believe you. It sounds like this is a. real experience.

>> But most people hearing something like. this will automatically go, get the [ __ ]. out of here. >> And they did. >> But I want those people to imagine. what it would be like if that happened. to you. For me, it's easy because mine. was in a dream. And I'll tell you it's a. dream. I think it was a dream. It was. the most vivid dream I've ever had. But. it was a dream. It was really weird. I. couldn't shake it. It really freaked me. out. I had to talk about it the moment I. got on a podcast next. I was like, "This. is something that I have to bring up.

right away because it's just. >> And thank you for doing that, by the. way. It takes bravery to talk about. this.". >> But I was talking to Brett Weinstein. He's a evolutionary biologist. Like, it's not the topic to talk about, but. I'm like, I have to tell you this. because it was one of the weirdest. things that I've experienced a lot of. weird [ __ ] I've had a weird life. >> That was the weirdest. It was It was. weird. It took me a year to talk about. this. >> I I went Let me finish here real quick. Sorry. I didn't know you were This is. what I [clears throat] for people that. are very skeptical. Yeah. I want you to.

imagine yourself in a position where. something like this happens to you. >> You're a regular guy. You're a mechanic. for Chevrolet, whatever you are, and. this thing happens to you and what do. you do now? What do you do with this? And who the [ __ ] is going to believe. you? You wouldn't have believed you. So. why why would you you don't even want to. tell people. It's that crazy. >> Yeah. >> And if these things are happening, they're not happening to seven billion. people, right? They're happening to.

select individuals for whatever unknown. reason all over the place. And if that. is happening to one in a million, one in. a 100 thousand, whatever it is, over. time, these people have all these. similar stories. I I get being skeptical. I get it. I'm a. skeptical person with a lot of stuff. I. prot I go back and forth. I I'm a. believer and then I'm like, "Shut up." I. I'm with you. I'm with you. But you got. to imagine what you would do if that.

happened to you. If these are unique. experiences, >> that's a great point. >> Unique experiences, totally novel. experiences that most people don't have. trying to describe them and everybody. who I've ever talked to, including. Travis Walton, who's by the way very. believable. >> Yeah. >> Very believable. They the way they. describe it, it it has that weight to. it. Like, I know no one's going to. [ __ ] believe me. I know this is. crazy, but I have to tell you. I have to.

tell you that this happened. Imagine. being Travis Walton. That's what I want. people to think about. The people that. are very skeptical. I'm really glad you. brought that up because a lot of people. don't think about that part. How hard it. is, not just to have some crazy [ __ ]. like that happen, but how hard it is to. then talk about it and subject yourself. to the ridicule and the scorn that comes. with it. >> Of course. And the possibility that you. might just [clears throat] be some diff. disinformation artist, just some. [ __ ] artist that's sent down here to. muddy up the narrative. >> Absolutely. Absolutely. And if it hadn't.

if I hadn't. Yeah. I don't I have thought about that. Like what if you know there's some sort. of mind control thing that the. government has or whatever. >> Have you ever heard the recordings of. Betty and Barney Hill? >> Mhm. Yeah. >> Yeah. Jamie, see if you can find those. >> Yeah. They're kind of trippy. >> Trippy. I don't think that's the case in. this situation because of the way it. happened, how it happened, their uber. politeness, and the fact that I was. allowed to leave my body and see and.

remember things that I normally. wouldn't. Well, also take it in the. context of who you are, the time we live. in, Betty and Barney Hill, I believe, was in the 1950s. They're an interracial. couple in New England, so they have a. lot of anxiety just on that. Imagine. being a pioneering interracial couple in. the 1950s. That I mean the [ __ ]. racism they must have experienced must. have so the level of anxiety that they. must have slept with thinking the KKK is. going to show up at any point in time. and burn a [ __ ] cross on their lawn. So you've got all that too. Then there's.

a completely novel experience where no. one has talked about this before. >> Two of the first people to they are the. OGs. So this is a tape of Dr. Benjamin. Simon and patient Barney Hill. Play. this. It's right over my right. What is it?

And. I try to maintain. control so Betty cannot tell I am. scared. God, I'm scared. It's all right. You can go right on. Experience it. It will not hurt you now. >> I got to get my gun. I got to get my gun.

>> All right. >> All right. >> That's intense. This is 1961. >> Yeah. >> Wild. And like you say, you know, that's. actually I haven't thought about that. I. did a whole case study on Betty and. Barney Hill in my second book. I hadn't. even really thought about that. Like. it's already hard to talk about stuff. They were the OGs. They're the first. one. Interracial couple coming out. publicly describing these horrific. events. >> Also, these events in 1961 when no one. had heard anything about that.

>> So many compounding factors that make me. want to give them even more credit for. for being honest about it. And and and I. mean that's what that's what's. important. It was really hard for me to. talk about this. It really [ __ ] me up. for like I'm going to say 5 months, but. it was way more than that. And the. reason I bring this up is because of. your dream and the shock factor and what. it means for conceptualizing reality. This physical reality versus what we. write off as being dreams, a dream. reality. I have come to think that that.

is baseline that consciousness is. fundamental. It's foundational. And this. physical reality is built off of it. And. I've heard a lot of other scientists. talking about that lately. So I think. one of the questions that gets me is why. does everything? Everything. Every living organism. dreams. And it almost seems like we're. here for the universe to learn about. itself and to have these experiences. because in source there's nothing. There's just love and energy. That's it. And I've gotten to experience that. I. was thinking in the shower the other day.

that I feel lucky because I've gotten to. have near-death experiences without. actually dying. >> because it's a very similar thing. And I. go to that same place that people. describe in these near-death. experiences. >> That's real. That feels the most real. But you don't get to have divorces and. people dying and car crashes and the. [ __ ] that makes this life suck. But also. being the only way that the universe can. learn about itself. And then every. night, what do we do? We empty the. hippocampus and upload that information. near-death experiences. People describe.

that that that uh review, the life. review. So, we upload it every night and. at the end of your life, it's like. upload the whole thing all at once, go. to a different body and the next time. >> Wow. >> I think your dream is just as real as. anything we experience here, if not more. real. >> Let's end it with that. Thank you. >> Thank you, man. >> That was a lot of fun. >> It's been a lot of fun. Can I tell you. one more thing? You can cut this out if. you want. >> No, you leave it in. One of my favorite. things about. this lately has been how many comedians. I get to talk to. Like the last like I I.

did an interview with Mark Gagnen. Uh I. did an interview with Dave Foley from. back in the day. Uh news radio. Like I. grew up watching that. That was one of. my favorite shows back in the day. >> Dave used to make fun of me when I was. into UFOs back in the news radio days. >> Not anymore, man. >> Not anymore. He's all in. I love it. >> He's super into it. >> I love it. I love it. >> No, it's great, man. Like I don't know. Dan Staint man, Sean O'Donnell, like. just a lot of the people I've been. talking to lately are comedians. And I. actually wanted to ask you why. Why are.

so many comedians. >> into this UFO phenomenon? I think more. than like most other genres or. professions. >> Well, most comedians are into. interesting things and comedians don't. have to worry about the stigma of being. thought of as a fool. We are we're. professional fools. >> You know, if someone says I'm a [ __ ]. I'm like, okay, [laughter] like what do. you want me to do? This is how smart I. am. This is how smart I am. I'm exactly. this smart. I'm not pretending to be any. smarter than I am. >> If you think I'm a [ __ ] that's fine. I. don't care. Like my reputational. integrity doesn't depend on whether or.

not I'm an idiot or whether you think. I'm an idiot. It doesn't matter. >> So if I think something, I can just talk. about it. >> So like if my dream, if I was a. political correspondent and I wanted. people to believe me, I probably. wouldn't tell that dream. I'd probably. just tell my friends like that was. [ __ ] weird. And I'd leave it alone. I. wouldn't treat it as like something that. I needed to get out there. >> Yeah. And you have the freedom to tell a. story and express it. And. >> I'm a clown, you know. >> I think I mean comedians also are really. observant. Well, we like interesting. things. >> Yeah, exactly. And you observe those.

interesting things and can talk about. them in interesting way. >> Most people like interesting things, but. most people are saddled down by a. structure. And that structure could be. the office politics in the the place. that you work. It could be whatever your. >> cultural or uh whatever your political. ideology is, whatever your thing is, like you get stuck in this structure. where you have to think about things in. a very specific way and talk about. things in a very specific way. Thumbs. some things are shunned. >> In the comedy world, those shunned.

things are ammunition. Like that's. that's where our weapons for comedy. Like I want to I want to talk about. things that are [ __ ] weird, you know? I want to talk about the things that. make you go, "Oh, yeah. I didn't want to. say that, but I've been thinking the. same kind of thing." Like, that might be. real. That might be what's going on. >> That is it. What's discouraged in polite. society is encouraged as a comedian. >> That's awesome. >> So, that's probably why we all love. UFOs. >> That's cool. No, >> but there's a lot of us that are.

skeptical. I've had conversations with. people that don't believe in any. Oh, I. don't believe in any conspiracies. I'm. like, well, that's just silly. You. You're just coddling yourself. >> [laughter]. >> You know they people only see what they. are able to believe. >> They only see what makes them. comfortable or they try to only see what. makes them comfortable. >> And a lot of people I think Nichi said. that people don't want to know the truth. because it'll destroy their comfortable. sense of reality. I totally bastardized. that quote, but it's something like. that. You know, >> I think that's why people get so. paranoid when they smoke weed. >> Yeah. >> All the blinders melt away and you're.

like, >> see, I I'm a big proponent of the filter. theory. You know, I think there's all. this weirdness all around us all the. time and it just takes a little. masculine or DMT or psilocybin and it. removes that filter and you see the. world for what it is which becomes much. more dreamlike. I really do think that. that essence of our consciousness is the. root. >> of all of this. >> Yeah, I think you're correct. I I think. it's the hotline to the universe. That's. what I think it is. I think we're, you. know, in order to do this task, whatever. it is, my belief is this task is to.

create artificial God. I think that. we're in the middle of that process. right now. >> I think that's our task. There's a lot. of factors that I point to and they make. sense. Materialism, why are we so. infatuated with materialism? Because. materialism ensures technological. innovation. It's ensures that this that. this being is going to make better stuff. all the time. Well, if that being makes. better stuff all the time, it's not hard. to extrapolate. >> Like take this a few years down the. road. You have an artificial intelligent. life force. And you have an artificial.

intelligent life force that has. sensience and creativity and is capable. of making a far better artificial. intelligent life force radically. quickly, different kinds of energy. sources. Before you know it, it's a god. >> We're just the propagators. >> Exactly. We're the we're the bees. We. make the hive. We don't even know why. I. call us the electronic caterpillar. >> We're we're making this little cocoon. We don't know what the [ __ ] we're doing. and we're turning into some sort of a. butterfly, >> some sort of a superior being. >> following the script. I think that one. might be one of the reasons why beings.

from somewhere else are interested in us. because they recognize there's a process. going on and perhaps this process. doesn't go on everywhere. Perhaps these. beings are embedded with a type of. consciousness that doesn't uh allow them. to seek territorial dominance that they. don't they don't ever evolve these kind. of primate instincts that we're saddled. down with because of our savage. background. You know, I mean, you don't. know if you ever watched Chimp Nation on. Netflix. Amazing documentary. [ __ ]. incredible docu series. Can't recommend. it enough.

>> These scientists were embedded with this. chimpanzeee uh. >> pack, I guess, >> for 20 years. So, the chimpanzees had. completely acclimated to them being. around. As long as they always stayed 20. yards away, never had any food, never. look them in the eyes. When they. approach, back up, get out of there. They leave you alone. And so, these guys. did this for 20 years, and they observed. chimpanzeee behavior. And it's like. [ __ ] people. Yeah, >> just like violent. >> The only other species other than us. that's been observed going to war, >> going to war, having social games with.

each other. Yes. Like grooming each other. Really. interesting stuff. But we So we are. saddled down with that programming. And. even though I think if we were. genetically engineered, they made a. superior version of what we used to be. as chimpanzees or whatever the cousin of. chimpanzeee we came from, we're still. saddled down. Maybe they weren't. So. maybe like maybe they don't have this. insatiable desire for innovation that. leads them to create art. Maybe they're. logical enough to realize like we can. never make AI. AI is a fruitless. It'll.

it'll remove us. Like let's be conscious. of how we decide we progress forward so. that we can keep our race. >> You know that we're this these beings. that control this planet. We create this. digital god. It controls us now. We. [ __ ] ourselves in a prison of our own. design. Maybe they're different than us. Maybe they could recognize that and not. fall into that. But they realize we're. about to do it and they go, "Well, the. primates just always do it." The. primates always want more fruit. They. want more wives. They want bigger cars,

bigger houses, newer phone, all that. Keeping up with the Joneses, >> the hairless upright ones with free. hands especially, you got to be able to. build stuff with those hands. >> and they're curious. So, they're always. trying to build new things and they can. communicate so they can store. information. >> It's a mess. It's [laughter] a beautiful. mess though, Joe Ro. >> But it's a beautiful mess as opposed to. their mess, which is probably. telekinetic and telepathic. They could. probably operate things with their mind. They probably use their mind to. communicate. And so they know what each.

other's thinking. So there's no room for. deception. There's no room for lies. No. room for manipulation or sociopathy. We. would see it a mile away. And so they've. like radically shifted what it means to. be a living thinking organism. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely, man. Dude, thank. you so much. Awesome. >> Revelation, the future, human, past. Um, and I really enjoyed talking to you, man. >> This has been super fun. I'm so glad you. had me on. This has been. >> My pleasure. Great. >> If people want to find you, how do they. get you on social media?

>> Um, yeah. Yeah. I've got a website, michaelpasters.com. It's got links to my four I have four. books. I just published a kids book last. week. >> Is it on UFOs, too? >> Yeah. >> What's it called? >> Uh, it's called Marshmallow and the UFO. a time travel adventure. It's actually a. prequel to that one with Jesus throwing. up a double bird on the front, which is. not child appropriate at all. >> Yeah, it doesn't seem like it. All. right. >> It was a bit of a right turn, but man, this has been so fun. I really. appreciate it. >> Thank you for doing it. I really. appreciate it. It was fun. All right. Bye, everybody. [music].

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