Joe Rogan Experience #2425 - Ethan Hawke

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. All day. That's Joe. Nice to meet you. >> Great to meet you, man. >> It's weird when you've seen someone in. so many [ __ ] movies and then you meet. him in real life. Like, okay, just a. regular person right there. >> Yeah. Staring me in the face. You just. took a leak. Yeah. [laughter]. >> [gasps]. >> Um, dude, you've been in some [ __ ].

banger movies, man. It's like you've had. an incredible career. >> Yeah. >> Pull that sucker. Uh, >> pull it towards me. Yeah. >> All right. Very good. Yeah. It's been a. long, strange trip. >> It's been a wild one, huh? >> Yeah. >> When did you start acting? How old were. you? >> All right. So, I'm like 12 years old. I. don't have a winter sport. My mother. doesn't know what to do with me. And uh. my next door neighbor, he lived like. four houses down. He took an acting.

class at the Paul Robson Center of. Performing Arts. And so my mother signed. me up so that I could get picked up by. his mom, you know, taken to acting class. in the winter and get dropped off, you. know, and be at home. And I went there. and this head of a local theater company. came by to teach an improv seminar kind. of thing. I I'm 12 years old, right? And. afterwards in the parking lot, he said, "Um, hey, you want to be in a play." I.

said, "What do you mean?" He says, "I. got a part of a guy who's a knight. He. gets to you get to have a sword." And I. said, "Well, I have any lines?" He said, "You'll have one line." I said, "All. right, cool." And I asked my mom and she. said, "Do I have to pay?" You know, and. [laughter] I said, "I don't think so. I. think they're going to pay me." So, I. went and I did this play and it was. George Bernard Shaw's St. Joan at the. Marter Theater in New Jersey. And. >> it was a real play. >> Yeah, it was it was a proper play. >> And it was an incredible experience to. be honest with you because my parents.

hated their jobs. You know, they would. go to work and their life happened on. the periphery of their employment. You. know, my mom would take the train to New. York and so she wouldn't get home till. 7:30, something she would leave at dawn. And um she was just miserable at work. I. [clears throat] mean, and um I went to. this rehearsal and everyone was having. they were talking about whether or not. God existed. They were talking about.

what they believed in. They would dress. up in these crazy outfits and then we. did the play and they got a standing. ovation and it was uh it was so much fun. and it was the first time I saw this you. could do this for a living. [laughter]. Uh, you know, a lot of the the actors. aren't people you've heard of or. anything like that, but they were real. actors and they loved their job and the. rehearsal room was still kind of. thrilling watching them figure out where. people should stand and when what was. important and what was the scene about. and what was the theme of the play and. how could this scene fit in with the. larger context and um [clears throat].

and I just decided that's what I wanted. to do and a lot of kids want to act so. that doesn't mean very much but I. through this other friend of mine I. started hearing about open casting calls. was in New York and I asked my mom if I. could go on some of these big auditions. and again she said, "Does is it going to. cost me any money?" She said, "If I paid. for my own train fair, I could go to. these auditions." So, I took some. Polaroids and uh went on a few of these. big auditions and I got one of them and.

it was for this big in 1984. It was a. $30 million movie directed by the guy. who just done Gremlins, right, Joe. Dante. And I thought I was a made man. I. mean, it was just it was inca it was. absolutely incredible to be sucked out. of suburban America and brought to LA. My first scene partner was River. Phoenix. And all of a sudden, I'm I'm in. LA. >> And, you know, my mom couldn't quit her job.

or anything, so my mom had a really uh. turbulent relationship with her mother, but her mother her mother and she didn't. really know each other. And so, her. mother said she'd be my guardian. And my. mom designed this as a way to maybe have. a family healing. But my grandmother was. um a piece of work. [laughter]. And uh we lived together in Korea Town. That's what they called it. And um it. was wild. And she I remember we drove. into Paramount Studios. You know, you. can picture it the image from The.

Godfather. And you had the big gates. And my grandmother had always wanted to. be a movie star. >> Wow. >> You know, and she had she was from here. She's from Austin, Texas. Well, really. Fort Worth, but you know, she would talk. about going to see Gone with the Wind at. the Paramount here in Austin, you know, and she would she would watch Gone with. the Wind, you know, three times a week. Uh, and she had dreamed of being a movie. star. And I remember we were in a big. van driving me to set the first day and. we went through the gates of Paramount.

opening up and she was smoking an Eve. cigarette in the van. Of course, it's. 1984. and she's just like my first time. in Hollywood as a [ __ ] guardian, you know. >> And [laughter] uh and so the whole child. actor thing is was a trip and I finished. the movie and there's a lot of drama um. involved in the five was to complete. that story. But I finished it. The movie. was a big turkey. >> How old were you at the time?

>> 14. >> Wow. >> River and I were both 14. We. Yeah. But see, we look so young in that. picture, right? But you got to. understand, >> you know, when you're that age, you. think you're dying to be 18, dying to be. 16. We went off, River and I stole a. pack of Camel cigarettes because we both. wanted to be like James Dean. And um uh. and [snorts] we had a we had a lot of. fun. Um that's the truth. But the movie. came out and I remember River and I. going to the bathroom at the premiere.

and um we had grown a lot from the time. we shot the movie to the time it came. out and nobody in the bathroom really. recognized us and they were all talking. about what a turkey the the movie was, how terrible it was. And I remember just. looking in the eyes like it it wasn't. the narrative we thought you know we we. had bought into the dream that you know. we were going to be whatever teen icon. we were thinking of at the time and um. and it died a quick and salty death my.

dream and I went back to high school and. put away my dream of being an actor. It. seemed like it was this isolated uh. almost like choose your own adventure. book or something. Uh where I got to see. what Hollywood was like but then have it. denied. And it it kind of like putting. your hand in a flame. It was not a good. feeling when it was over. And. then, you know, four years or so went by.

and I graduated high school and I was. off of college and I heard about these. auditions for a movie called Dead Poet. Society. And I hated college. I was. miserable. And I thought, I'll take the. bus in and I'll go on one of these open. casting calls again. And. and if I get the part, I this is what I. decided. If I get the part, I'll I'll do. that. and if I don't get the part, I'll. join the Merchant Marines and be like. Jack London. That that was my fantasy at. the time. I remember I remember calling. my sister and saying, "All right,

there's seven parts. This is how dumb I. was. I was like, there's seven parts. If. I don't get one of those, I must suck, you know." So, which is not true at all. But I ended up getting one of them. And. um and I dropped out of college and the. the success of Dead Poet Society sent. me, you know, was like a trajectory of it. shot me down a different course of water. than I was on before. >> That's probably a much better path than. the first film being successful and you.

become a child star. >> I cannot tell you how grateful I am for. that first experience. First of all, if. for no other reason than in the success. of Dead Poet Society, I didn't take it. seriously at all. I didn't even realize. that the movie was successful until a. couple years later because I had so. braced myself for failure, you know, perception of failure anyway because of. the first experience. >> Yeah. Because everybody's saying, "Oh, the movie is so great." I'm like, "Yeah, they said this last time. This doesn't. mean anything, you know." And um so it.

kind of taught me at a really young age. about to ask yourself why you're doing. something, you know, like are you doing. it for the result of what happens or are. you doing it to do it? And I by coming. back to acting a few years later, I was. just fully braced for it not to go well. and it was still going to be worth it. And and so I think I it gave me a slight. bit of ballast to handle the success of. Dead went into it for the enjoyment of. doing it rather than thinking a star.

>> I had no expectations, but I was certain. I wasn't going to be a star. I was. positive of it. I saw it as a way to. make some money and maybe learn about. writing and learn about film and a way. to get out of college. Now, what. happened is when I got there, I met all. these other young men who were in love. with acting and that I started watching. movies with them and talking about. movies with them and seeing the light in. their eyes. And we'd go to set and there. was Robin Williams, you know, we had.

Peter Weir who had just directed. Witness, one of my favorite movies of. all time at that point. And he was a. master. I mean, he was not a um. lightweight human being. He was a. heavyweight human being. And he would. lead rehearsals and he would talk about. acting and performance in a way that I. hadn't. Well, you know, I heard people talk. about it that way when we were doing St. Joan when I was doing the like he talked. about it like we were making art and. like we were on a mission beyond success. or failure and it was it it was an.

invitation to a lifestyle a life. commitment and what I didn't realize at. the time that's what that movie's about. too. >> you know so the movie itself is a guided. meditation on carpedium right it's it's. a meditation on gather ye rose buds. while ye may I sound my barbaric yaw. over the rooftop tops of the world. You. know, this is the kind of stuff that I. was getting uh inundated with in. rehearsal. >> Uh and so that was I didn't I wouldn't.

have told you that on the day I wrapped. Dead Poet Society that my life had. changed, >> but looking back it had it had planted. the seeds. >> Yeah. >> I was thinking I I've never met a person. who became famous at 14 who came out of. it okay. Um, I've yet to I heard Jodie. Foster School. Never met anybody that. became famous very young. >> I read every interview she does for. exactly that reason. Um, I have it's.

it's so difficult. I tell parents all. the time like children acting is a. wonderful thing. Put them in the school. play. It's so good for them. Get them. singing lessons, it's so good for them. Singing the church choir, it's so good. for them. Um, but to be a professional. actor at a young age is um. this it it's dangerous in an extremely. insidious ways that are very very hard. to perceive when it's happening. That's. a great way to put it. Yeah. It's it I.

think it completely impedes your. developmental process. The way I I liken. to is like concrete. When you make. concrete, there's a bunch of very. specific ingredients. You put them with. very specific mixture like you have to. have this amount of water, that amount. of sand, this amount of rocks, all the. if it's off, it's never fixed. You can't. add water after it's cured. It's done. It's [ __ ] forever. This is bad. concrete now. And this is what happens.

to a lot of young human beings that. become famous, whether it's through. acting or singing or. >> Yeah. And it's not just fame. That. analogy works for all walks of life, really. you know, if you have a really. uh something really traumatic happens in. childhood, it's very hard to recover. It's a tremendous amount of work to. recover. And I agree with you, like I. think celebrity is like it's like a tiny. drop of mercury or it's poison. >> It's poison for your brain. Now, if.

you're mature, >> you can handle it. And if you get it in. slow in like I got it in slow. increments. Dead poet Society happened. And I had a little taste of fame, but I. wasn't. Nobody knew my name. I was You. >> go to restaurants. >> Yeah. I was that kid from Dead Poet. Society. Oh, look at him. Yeah. And I. got it in slow. I got to develop what. what do you call it when you you get a. little bit of poison? Uh like a. >> resistance. >> Yeah. Resistance to it. Um and I it it. it came so slowly for me. I even think. about people I remember.

the weekend Pretty Woman came out two. days before. No one had ever heard of. Julie Roberts. two days afterwards, she's the most famous per woman in. America. I think that's a huge thing to. absorb. I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Um, and I know that my personality couldn't. have handled it. Um, I've I've worked. hard to handle it as poorly or well as I. have, you know. >> Yeah. It's I think you going back to.

school and living a normal life for you. know five six years or whatever it was. before you left college that's I just. think that's critical that's the. developmental process of the normal. maturation of a person when they go. through adolescence teenage years into. college young adult then you can kind of. handle things and then maybe you're also. fortunate that like you said dead poet. society not you know you didn't get too. huge from it. You just got some some.

juice, little bit of juice, >> a little bit of confidence. That was a. nice, you know, it's like. >> something's happening. >> Something's happening. But then I had. the years after that. that, you know, I have to give some a. shout out to my mom who was just so. devastated that I dropped out of. college. I mean, she just couldn't stop. crying about it, you know. Um, >> and it filled me with a. desire to show her that I was taking. responsibility for my own education,

which is what I said I would do. And so. I started a theater company and I I. worked really hard at a lot of different. things, writing and reading and thinking. and mostly with this theater company. where I met a lot of young people who. were interested in what I was doing, but. we weren't paid any money and we worked. our asses off and we built sets and we, you know, it was fun. I don't want to. lie. We had a great time. But it was. a college experience that I gave myself. through this theater company. And that.

changed me because I met a lot of people. who were really excellent at what I do. that weren't making a lot of money. I. met a lot of people who loved it as much. as I do, who weren't getting their. picture taken, who weren't being told. they were special. I knew how gifted. they were. I could understand. I had a. little bit of balance and a little bit. of humility to go along with the. superficial elements of of my chosen. field. >> Do you ever think about like what would. have happened if that guy didn't invite. you to do that play when you were 12?

It's kind of crazy how there's these. pivotal moments in your life. >> You know, he just died. Nagel Jackson. was his name and he's he was a great. theater director. I mean, the I don't. know if you feel this way. I I don't. know what. I have a sense often and I know this is. sounds really dopey to say but I. sometimes have a sense of a guardian. angel of some kind of why did this guy. talk to me in the parking lot and why. was he such a kind decent human being?

Um throughout my life I have had. opportunities presented to me and I had. enough intuition and enough uh. intelligence maybe to follow it. But I. do think I think about it all the time. uh. all the ways. that are imperceptible in the Tuesday. and Wednesday and Thursday that they. happen, but where your life is kind of. guided. >> Um and it doesn't really feel by your.

own doing. >> Yeah, I know it sounds wacky to say, but. I believe it, too. I mean, I don't. publicly profess it as the definite. reason why everything happens, but. there's a bunch of I think most people. that have gotten anywhere in life, there's moments in their life like how. did that happen? Like what why did this. feel like it was a a destined path? Like. why why was I compelled to try this? What was the what was the thought behind. that? And what am I being guided? Is.

there is fate real? I wonder how other people feel. But I do. think one of the keys. I think that probably everybody has a. path that is there for them. And the. trick about knowing yourself, the value. in taking time to like be still with. yourself and listen to yourself, you.

know that there's an expression, the. voice of our spirit is extremely gentle. Uh it's it's difficult to hear it. It's. quiet. >> Yeah. >> But if you can hear it, that thing, intuition, that thing, the path, idea of. a guardian angel, whatever, you can see. what's happening around you if you're in. touch with yourself. And if you're not. in touch with yourself, you keep. tripping on the same. You're not seeing. the angles and the roads that might be. available to you. >> So, I do think that part of the trick.

is taking time to to actually get to. know yourself so that you can see the. light when it appears because I bet you. everybody has it. >> I bet they do, too. I bet there's also. a real factor in recognizing the misery. of your mother's life, what she was. doing where she didn't take these. chances. She didn't She had. responsibility. She was. >> Yeah. But can I tell you something funny. about that?

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get started. >> So, she was 18 when I was born, right? So that's that's tough. You don't really. have a childhood. Right. >> Right. >> And but in her mid4s, she took it. She joined the Peace Corps. in her mid-40s after I you know once I. was okay and it was right around the. time my oldest Maya was born. >> So you single single child? >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I was a.

big part of her. on her brain a lot worrying. It was a. big, "Is this kid gonna be all right? Is. this kid gonna be all right?" It makes a. lot of noise in your head, you know. >> Sure. >> And um and I was all right. And she. looked around and I remember her saying. that, you know, if if an accident. happened today, when they do happen and. I died, I would be extremely. disappointed in myself. She was. probably, I don't know, 46 or something. when she said this, younger than I am.

now. and um and she said, "I don't want. to be disappointed in my life." So, she. joined the Peace Corps, which she wasn't. all that impressed with, but they sent. her to uh Romania, and she fell in love. with Romania, and she fell in love with. um the people there, and she got. obsessed with the racism against the. gypsy culture, um the Roma culture, I'm. supposed to call it. Um, and.

it reminded her a lot of growing up here. in the 60s, um, and the racism she saw. as a young girl. And she just decided to. do something about it. She spent 25. years there and she got thousands of. kids into school who wouldn't have gone. to school. She just recently retired. back to Fort Worth. And it's she's a. different woman than the woman I grew up. with. Um, which is I think a remarkable. story. I I love both the women. The. woman the woman now and the woman I grew. up with. I don't want to paint some. portrait that she was miserable. She had. so much she just was miserable at work,

>> right? >> You know, she was not a miserable person. to be with the opposite. >> Um, and she kept that fire in herself. alive enough to when the window. presented itself, she took it and she. took it hard. I mean, she disappeared. for a quarter of a century to Romania as. a young woman born in Fort Worth, right? And that's a wild thing to do. and she. made a huge impact and I'm extremely. proud of her and proud of the work that. she's done and so is everybody who knows. her. Um, and and now she's in Fort Worth.

doing her thing and has a different. sense of herself because she followed. her own intuition and her own path. It. just she had to deal with the. responsibility of raising a child for a. long time. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, that that develops a. different kind of character, too. you know, the the character of a woman. trying to raise a child and also a boy, you know, I I have all daughters and I.

think. >> You do? Yeah. I have three daughters and. one boy. Yeah. >> You know, all my friends who have boys. like, dude, it is so much harder. It's. just that you just trying to keep them. from burning the house down. >> Yeah. It was a pain. That was a huge. course. And if you're a single child, you know, but I she must have gotten. some inspiration from your path, from. your choices. >> I wonder fact that you went for it. >> You have to ask her. >> I think. she had in her own way went for it.

because everybody told her not to have a. baby and she wanted to. >> and she didn't want to run with the. pack. Now, she didn't I think when. you're 18, you don't understand the. ramifications of the decision of having. a child, >> right? >> You know, how you know permanent, you. know, I remember she told me when Maya. was born, well, congratulations. You. know, you now have something to worry. about the rest of your life, [laughter]. [clears throat]. you know. Yeah. I think it's a gift.

though. it I mean I I certainly think it. changes you as a human being in. in my case the most positive ways. possible. Um I could imagine being a. single mother though it's a much more. difficult. position to be in. >> and there's a lot of pressure on women. You know, >> sure. >> You know, if I I if you work, you're a. bad mother. If you're just a. stay-at-home mom, you're not a good,

strong woman. You know, I mean, they're. damned if they do, they're damned if. they don't. That's the position they get. put in. >> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's it. all those experiences when as an actor I. mean one of the more fascinating things. to me about watching people is how they. can assume different identities like and. and how critical is it to have had so. many different people in your life and. different life experiences to draw from. to try to understand things through. their eyes. If you're a regular person.

running through if you're a stock broker. you're running through the world. thinking like a stock broker. You're not. you're not thinking, well, what would it. be like to be a janitor? Like, what is. it [clears throat] like to be this guy. who's trying to raise a family and he's. got a a drug dealer in his neighborhood. that's causing problems and your life is. this constant state of drama? Like, you're drawing from all these different. experiences. having had. like not I mean I wouldn't say it's your. life was complicated but it sounds like.

you have a really good mom but. complicated like and not necessarily. that stable in that way. you're young. and you're, you know, you're trying this. thing out and you're going off to. Hollywood and then you're coming back. and going to college, like having all. these different bizarre interactions. with people and life experience. How. much do you draw upon that when you're. trying to like create a character? >> Well, that's a really big question. Um, it. >> is well, so I have to break it into. parts. >> It started getting bigger as I was.

asking. >> Yeah. Yeah. is it's kind of two parts, but the the first part about drawing on. a character is touching on my favorite. aspect of my life in my job. Most. people, if you're an actuary, you're an. actuary. You think in numbers, you think. in this, this is, and it's your job. You. have to, you know, you I have um I got. to play a World War II vet. I got taken. out to basic training. I got to read. World War II veterans journals over and. over again. I got to wear the clothes.

they wore. Um, I was working on that. movie for a few months, reading all. kinds of books, watching documentaries. about that. Then that movie is over. Moving on. Now I'm going to get cast as. a LA cop. Going to do rideounds through. Los Angeles uh, in the backseat of a cop. car right when the crash unit thing was. happening. And, um, and I'm thinking. like a cop. And I'm not. it's not it's even it's it's different. than being a journalist and writing.

about it. I'm really trying to imagine. being them. And I'm not looking at it. from a judgmental point of view. I don't. have an agenda about whether they're a. good person or a bad person or whether. this army sergeant should have made that. decision or that one. I'm thinking why. did he make it? >> Why did he make it? Why did he do that? Yeah. >> Right. I play a jazz musician, a drug. addict, >> right? I'm not sitting there judging. him. would a bad person, you know, I'm. thinking, why do you do it? You know, it's it's a painkiller. Why is he taking.

it? Where's this music come from? Why is. it so important to him? Why does he. practice 12 hours a day? What what is. that about? You know, you all these um. characters are these invitations. to. a expand your own sense of what it what. identity means. Like what is who is Joe. Rogan, right? And who Joe Rogan is with. his mom is a little different than he's. watching the Super Bowl with his best.

friends. Who Joe Rogan is at 40 is. different than he is at 20. We we have. inside of us so many aspects to. ourselves. You know, when you're we're. in in love, you you change. When you see. your child for the first time, you. change your your biology, your chemicals. start to shift a little bit. If you're. in a violent situation, you know, the. your molecular structure alters a little. bit and you start to realize that that's. not you and that's not you and that's.

not you. They're all you. and and that's what performing is like. and you start to um see society and see. yourself and see a a continuity that is. really kind of exciting. I've had. if you don't get ruined by. oh breaking your arm, patting yourself. in the back or something like that. I've. met a bunch of older actors who've lived. really interesting lives that I've. learned. It's like I I once had dinner.

with Vanessa Redgrave, this old English. actress. She she'd spent her life doing. Shakespeare and Czechov and Beckett and. Tennessee Williams. She'd spent her life. with some of the greatest minds of the. last 50 years. and she. carries that with her. Um, she's. powerfully intelligent, powerfully. humble woman. And it's it's like. being next to somebody you really. admire, you know, a master craftsman. It.

doesn't matter what the craft is, when. they when you take it to a high level, it has a lot to teach you. So anyway, that was a multi-part question. The. other thing that part of your question. is how did I stay balanced? And a lot of. it had to do with my father who um has. he doesn't care about celebrity. Doesn't. particularly think it's very interesting. and um not in a judgmental way. He. really cares about integrity and whether. you're a good person and whether you. tell the truth. And it doesn't it's not.

interesting to him how much money you. make. Um, that's not where his value. system is placed on whether he's. naturally suspicious of people who want. too much attention. Naturally suspicious. of that in me, >> which was good for me. >> That's a good suspicion. >> It's a healthy suspicion. Yeah, >> he was very realistic about the chances. I had of making a profession out of. this. That's not a bad thing. You know, everybody says it's so great to tell.

people to follow your dreams, and it is. important to follow your dreams, but. it's also important to be realistic and. have a plan and take care of yourself. and and um when you say you're going to. do something to do it, to show up when. you're asked to tell the truth. All. these things that So, whenever things would start to go well, I had this person in my life that's very. important to me who doesn't place a. value on anything superficial. And when we talked about why it's so.

hard to meet young people in this. profession who make it, what starts to. happen, regardless of how good or not. good your parents are or something, your. circle. can get infiltrated with a lot of people. trying to make money off you. And um and. that's dangerous because they don't care. about you. >> Yeah, that is an issue. There's an issue. of people trying to get you to take work. that you really shouldn't take just. because they're going to get a. percentage of it. >> or it's going to be good for you in the.

next three years, but they don't have. your long term, >> right? >> You know, what is going to be good for. the 65year-old version of you, right? >> You know, is this like you said, yeah, if I could if I could have decided my. life explorers would have been a huge. hit. It would have been ET big. And you. know what? I wouldn't be here on this. talk show today, you know. So, I don't. want to be in charge of my whole life in. that way, you know. Maybe you would, but. it would be different. You'd be coming. out of rehab. >> Oh, for sure. It'd be a Charlie Sheets. story. >> Yeah, dude. I'd be on Marriage 18, >> who, by the way, was a fantastic guy to.

talk to. >> I bet he was. Yeah, I listen to it. It. was fantastic. [laughter]. >> Wonderful guy. Like a sweetheart of a. guy. A guy who went through the exact. opposite of what I'm saying is good for. you. >> If you survive, >> Yeah. >> anything is a learning tool. Right. >> Right. I mean, some of you, you must. have this. Some of the wisest people I. know have been through the 12step. program. >> Yes. >> And so addiction and misery can be an.

unbelievable teacher if you can if you. pull yourself out of it. >> If you survive. >> If you survive. It's not um I wouldn't. wish it for my children. It's not a dare. I want them to take. Oh hey, one path to. wisdom is [laughter] terrible. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. A lot of my friends died from it, but a. couple of them are really wise from it. There's read a book. Okay. It's a I. remember it's funny even as you said, I. remember when I was about 24 um starting. to get successful. I met my friend. Richard Linkletter. Um and we were.

hanging out in New York and we met this. really cool this guy we really admired, fancy pants writer, really badass, you. know, you kind of just and we were. smoking cigarettes. Well, Rick wasn't of. course, but we were shooting pool and. this guy said to me, "You know what? You're almost interesting. He said to. me, "You know what you got to do is you. go got to go down to Mexico and. disappear for a couple years. You know, live life a little bit, then you'll be. somebody." And the guy finally went the. night, we're walking home with Rick and. Rick said, "Let me tell you what you.

don't need to do." [laughter]. What What do you do? Read some William. Burroughs. That might be a good idea. Read some Hunter S. Thompson. Skip the. addiction path. Yeah. you know, learn. >> You don't have [laughter] to you don't. have to do it. You know, you don't need. to. >> That's that's not the path to wisdom, right? >> You know, it has worked for a handful of. people, but most of us, you know, I keep. coming back in this conversation, Jodie. Foster, how much I'm I read her. interviews because I admire because I. know what she's survived,

>> right? >> But but she's wicked smart. >> Yes. >> You know, you don't want to you don't. want to place your bet that you're as. smart as she is. >> Yeah. She's smart and also wise. That's. what the odd thing of someone who's in. like how old was she in Taxi Driver? >> 12, 14. >> Crazy. >> I know. >> Crazy. >> And [clears throat] it's a very bizarre. movie for a young child to be sexualized. and in this very weird psychotic movie. >> But what she took from it was this great.

mentor in Martin Scorsesei. And she kind. of understood she was making art. That's. where the wisdom comes in. She's just. naturally precociously wise that way. that she didn't get hung up. >> on the the. >> CD aspects or the sexuality aspects of. it. She got hung up on who's this guy. Martin Scorsesei. What is he doing? What. is this movie saying? How could I be a. part of that, >> you know, and that's how I think she. survived? But I I don't know the woman, so I shouldn't speak. >> Yeah, I don't know her either, but I do.

admire her when I hear her talk. Yeah, me too. And that's why I always bring. her up as the lone example that I've. ever come across of someone who's been. through childhood stardom that seems to. be like very well and put together. >> Yeah. And she's still really good at her. job. >> Yeah. >> I know. Right. You know, it's like that. that become a caricature. >> That to me is really exciting, you know? See, if you're me, you're like I I look. at Jeff Bridges a lot, too. So, like. when Dead Poet Society came out, I went. I remember I went on this long talk with. myself. I was like, it was like sunrise.

and I'd been up all night and it was New. York and I was about 19 or something and. I was just thinking about who had gone. through this that I actually admire when. I look at them and I admire and um Jeff. Bridges had starred in the last picture. show which was one of my favorite movies. and he was amazing in it and he just. slowly got better and better and better. and better and I was like all right so. it can be done. You know, this, you.

know, he's got an amazing wife. He's. really super into Buddhism. I started. getting like, what what is it? He's. really into photography. Like, he takes. I I don't know him either, right? So, I'm just I'm just I'm talking like a fan. here. It's not I don't know these. people, but I I watched him from afar. It's like, okay, this race can be won. And um and I've always thought I. remember I was so happy he won the. Academy Award for True Grid, I guess it. was. And and I was like, damn, what a. long slow burn he had. And he just keeps.

getting better and more interesting. He comes out with these weird little. books I love and I read them. And he he. he. >> he writes books. >> Yeah. He has this book with his like he. has a mentor in Buddhism and they kind. of wrote a book together about the Dao. of the dude or some something like that. [laughter]. But it's actually, you know, I don't. know if you've read the Dow of Willie. I. love all these kind of uh. to the left versions of sometimes I find. it hard to read the I want to read what. Willie thinks about the dampata more.

than I want to read the dumpata myself. >> Yeah, there it is. Yeah, the dude in the. Zen master. It's a great book by the. way. >> He has a a mantra in it that I just love. which is uh row row row your boat gently. down the stream. Merrily, merrily, merrily, life is but a dream. and he. talks about how valuable that song has. been to him. I'm probably misquing, but. it it meant a lot to me. And it's just. like one step at a time. One step at a. time. Keep keep a smile on your face, you know. Don't forget it's all a dream,

you know. It's like it's a great mantra. It is. And it's it's always. great to have someone who has gone. through it all and has come out. fascinating, interesting, and wise. So. you go, "Oh, it can be it can be done.". >> Yeah. >> Did you ever meet Christopherson? >> No. >> He was cool. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I Well, I my secret fantasy is is. your job. You know, I I I wrote a. profile on Chris um I don't know 15.

years ago now for Rolling Stone. magazine. And I I made a documentary. about Paul Newman and Joanne Woodward. And I just finished a documentary about. Merl Haggard. And um I really enjoy. studying other people and um but Chris, you know, his his life stories, do you. know what I mean? He was in the military. and then he gave up everything, became a. songwriter, and it's kind of like. imagine if.

you know the equivalent is like at the. point of height of his career. It's like. imagining um uh if Brad Pitt had also. written a number one single for Amy. Winehouse and [laughter]. you know what I mean? I mean I mean you. know he he wrote me and [clears throat]. Bobby McGee for Janice Joplin and he. did. Yeah. Oh. Oh yeah. Wow. And he was. you know a helicopter pilot. He wrote. songs for Johnny Cash and he was acting. in Sam Pekpaw movies. >> He was in Blade. >> Yeah he was in Blade. Yeah.

>> Um, but he was a uh real he's a road. scholar and a boxer. You would like this. guy. He would be right up your alley. A. real free thinker and um didn't trap. himself in any way of thinking and um. really fought for individual rights and. uh he was a great great guy. I got to. interview him and he he actually starred. in my first movie I directed too. So I. got to know him. What was that? >> So movie called Chelsea Walls. I don't.

necessarily recommend you watch it. [laughter] Uh you can if you want to. I. learned a lot making it. I I I like it a. lot, but uh I was learn, you know, I was. learn a lot. But Chris Chris was in it. and he was amazing. Yeah. Having known people like that is. so beneficial in your life. They they. they're not just like inspirational. It's like a mental fuel, a type of.

a type of nutrient almost. It's like. having a person that you know exists. that's been through something has come. out amazing and it and is so not tied. down to anyone's specific identity, has. varied interests, pursues them all with. passion. >> Having mentors. >> Yes. >> It's like, you know, how you going to be. a [clears throat] samurai if you don't. know a samurai, >> right? >> You know, and you got to see the way. they tie their shoes. You got to see the. way they make dinner. You don't just got. to see the fancy sword play. That stuff. is hardearned. And and so I I'm not.

scared of that. You know, you don't you. don't have to hero worship people. You. don't have to turn them into deities. They're human beings. But when you get. to experience and see that people like, oh, um, you don't have to lie. I knew a. guy once who didn't lie. You know, uh, you don't have to back. down when somebody says that. I watched. a person that back. You can be a good. parent. You can have your par your. children say, "I love my dad." It's not.

going to come easy, but it can be done. And and so I like heroes. I have no I I. like I also like seeing older people, you know, this not not the fixation on. the 23-year-old James Dean, you know, but a fixation on, you know, the. 72-year-old Christopherson, >> you know, um, you know, pick whoever. yours are. There's, >> yeah, >> you know, Muhammad Ali. I mean, there's. so many amazing people that you can say.

like, "Wow, life was not always a picnic. for them. How did they handle it?" Um, and then you cannot be, you know, too. upset when life's not a picnic for you. You can just ask yourself, how did you. handle it? >> Yeah. And I I don't think there's. anything wrong with really appreciating. people. That concern of hero worship is. legitimate because I think there are. some people that will take a person and. change who they are and make them not. just extraordinary, but not even human. >> Yeah, that's a mistake. >> It is a mistake, but it doesn't mean you.

can't love and deeply appreciate who. they actually are. flaws and all because. that's what we all are. And when someone. is extraordinary and they have gone. through so much or they have expressed. so much and they do resonate with you so. much there, that's a valuable person. And you should treat them like they're a. valuable person. It's not necessarily. hero worship. It's just appreciation. >> Yeah. Like I'll tell you, I don't know. why it just flashed through my brain. And uh when I was making this film, Chelsea Wallace, you have to understand. like digital video, it just came out.

this movie, The Celebrations, Danish. film, amazing movie. Thomas Vintterberg. directed it. And it just kind of changed. the rules. The camera was cheap. Like. movies were always so expensive to make. And now you could just I was like, "All. right, I want I made this movie for. $100,000 in 2000." And I was like, "All. right, we're just going to play with. this new camera." And I talked. Christopherson into being. He was my. hero. And he can't he agreed to do it. I. couldn't believe it. you know, he shows. up and on the set and I had this.

elaborate shot I had planned. I'd found. this apartment that was amazing. I hope. this isn't boring, but I think it's it's. a funny story. So, it's my first day. with Chris and I'm really trying to. impress him like I've I've ripped this. shot off from this French film I've. seen. It's amazing. You're going to come. into. >> you're going to he his character orders. a bottle of whiskey and the guy delivers. a bottle of whiskey to the room. And my. idea from this apartment, you could walk. from the living room into the bedroom. and from the bedroom to the bathroom and. then out of the bathroom into the. kitchen and the kitchen opened back up.

into the living room. It was one of. those New York City square apartments in. the Chelsea Hotel, right? And I showed. him this path I wanted him to take and. he was going to turn on the lights in. this room and he was going to put on a. cowboy hat while he's talking on the. phone. And he's going to look in the. mirror and point the thing and he's. going to walk in the bathroom and flick. that light on and then slam the mirror. shut and then walk out and then sit down. in the kitchen right where he was, pop. open the whiskey and pour himself a. glass right as he says the last line of. the monologue. And he looks at me and he. goes, "Are you an alcoholic?" [laughter].

And I was like, "Uh, no, no, not really. No." He goes, "I'm. an alcoholic." I said, "Oh, okay." His. character's name was Buddies. Bud's an. alcoholic. Like, yeah. He goes, "So, you. mean to tell me I order a bottle of. whiskey, I'm about to fall off the. wagon, and I don't open the [ __ ] until. I walk through this room, turn on a. light, try on a cowboy hat, flip on a. light, slam a mirror, and then sit. down." I was like, "Well, I think it.

would be a great shot." And he said, "Ethan, there is no way in hell that I. can remember all those lines and do all. that that you're asking me. It'll that. shot will never work." So, what I think. is Bud's an alcoholic and he's going to. get his bottle. He's going to open it. I'm going to sit down, say my monologue, and drink my whiskey. Okay, great. Let's do that. [laughter]. There's also the terror of someone you.

deeply admire not liking your idea. >> Yeah. [laughter] Which is your your your. whole body just shrivels up. You know, you know did you know you didn't see the. guitar film? I don't give a [ __ ] about. the guitar film. >> There's no way I'm going to remember. those lines. >> But then to to finish it, I'll say when. he wrapped the movie, uh he was getting. he, you know, said his goodbyes and. everything. He was getting in the. elevator to leave and I ran out and I. said to him, I said, "Hey, listen. You. know, you've given so much this whole. project and I know that, but you know,

this whole crew is working for free, right?" And. could I beg you, would you come in and. sing one song for us just like just for. the crew if for for me? Is there any way. you do that? He said, "Yeah, you got a. guitar?" And I said, "I do. I do." So he. sat down and he proceeded to tell this. elaborate story that I'm sure he's told. a thousand times, but it was such a. gift. The room he sat and told a story. about how he met Janice Joplain in the.

elevator of this very building and we. and she [ __ ] me about four minutes. later [laughter]. and I wrote I played her this song and. he's you know busted flat in Baton Rouge. waiting for a train. I was feeling by. his faith, right? And the whole crew, everybody's crying, everybody's so. happy. I mean, he was just he was that. giving um you know, to to everybody and. understood what it would mean to this. group of young artists, you know, and so.

but he wasn't perfect. He he was a real dude with real issues. and, you know, um and I loved him. Yeah, he was. I mean you think about what he did and. all the different songs that he. performed and movies he was in and. different things that he did. That was. an extraordinary life. Yeah. I I'll stop. in one second, but for some you Yeah, I. think you'll love this. Apparently the. legend Johnny Cash used to say that you.

know that song Sunday Morning Coming. Down. I woke up Sunday morning with no. way to hold my head that didn't hurt and. the beer I had for breakfast wasn't bad. So I had one more for dessert. Great. song. Okay, so Johnny Cash had a number. one single out of this song and Johnny. Cash would tell the story how um Chris. was flying helicopters offshore oil and. he landed in Johnny Cash's front yard. with a beer in one hand and the song in. the other on his helicopter and said, "Damn it, you got to listen to my song.". And I listened to it and went straight.

to number one. That's the story that you. know cash would tell. And I asked Chris. about it and he said, "Have you ever. flown a such and such chopper?" And I. said, I said, "No, I haven't." He goes, "There ain't no way in hell you can fly. that thing with beer in one hand and a. cassette in the other." [laughter]. That story, I don't know where he came. up with that story. He's just trying to help out my career. and make a legend out of me, too. But. but no, no, I just I sent it to him via. air mail. You know, >> for a person that watches movies, I've.

done a small amount of acting, but. I'm not good at it. For a person who. watches movies, there's a thing that. happens like a hypnosis. When someone is. a really good actor where they become. that person, and even though I know it's. Ethan Hawk, I know it's fill in the. blank, Daniel D. Louis, I know. I know. who it is, but it's not them at this. moment. They're so good that they've.

convinced me that they're this other. person. What is that? Because there's moments. where I see a good actor and I say, I. don't believe them. I don't I think. they're phoning it in. They're saying it. the right way, but there's just. something in the air. There's a missing. connection. And it is the key to a great. movie. The key to a great movie is. everybody has to be in that [ __ ].

weird zone. That weird zone where you. become a different person. You use the essential word in your first. sentence, which is hypnosis. I mean, I've spent my life studying what you. just talked about. And um when you're. acting with Denzel Washington, the power. and strength and completeness of his. imagination. is hypnotizing.

and it's an invitation to join him. And. a great film is a collective imaginative. experience. When you watch The. Godfather, you're not [ __ ] thinking. about Alpuccino or James Khan or you. think about Michael and Sunny and Tom. and you know Veto they I I remember I. watched the Godfather and I felt like. I'd see those guys at the Nick game. tomorrow. That's how we that's how much. you're not thinking about the music. You're not thinking about the shots. You.

know it's all one thing. All these. disperate elements turn into one fist. You cannot do it alone, right? But the. best people I've worked with, it's like. the easiest example to show like for. anybody when you go to a concert every. now and then it happens. The performer. hypnotizes you and [clears throat] you. disappear. >> Yeah. >> You you're you're inside those songs. >> Yeah. >> You know, you you're not talking about. those songs. You're not looking at them.

You're not listen. You are inside the. song. You're inside a dream. And. bad acting for me is glib. Bad acting is. commenting on the song. Bad acting is. slightly the feeling you're talking. about is when somebody's slightly. outside of it. It's very very hard to. do. And a lot of people um study it and. work on it. And voice and speech is a. huge I mean. this stuff is very it's way more. interesting to me than it would be to.

our audience here today. But it's like. all these elements of what creates. hypnosis. If I if you were if we're. talking about the violin, there are ways. to practice the violin and I'm not going. to make somebody a virtuoso, but I can. if I'm a expert violin help you be. better. And I think the same is true for. acting. Acting is an art form. It's. beautiful. Um, it's some weird collage. of where.

performance and writing and. all these elements, music, all it's all. a part of it. And when it's happening, it's all effortless. And there's a lot. of work you can do to inch it to being. easier and to inch your scene partner. into being easier. And the ways that. they can help you and there's ways that. they can ruin it. They can break the. dream. Um, but when it's good, it is. like diving into a dream. And it's a. feeling that I got for the first time.

when I was 18 years old, >> [clears throat]. >> um, acting in Dead Poet Society. And it. it was a feeling was it was seconds. long. I mean, it was not much, but a feeling. of disappearing. And and that's the. irony I always feel about acting is that. you know people think about actors and. they see these pictures in the red. carpet or something they think that's. what acting is. You know what it really. is. It's a life of that's completely. antithetical to that of trying to. disappear. It it feels like the.

celebration of the self, the celebration. of the personality, the but when you're. doing a scene with Philip Seymour. Hoffman, you know, um it's not Phil. that's talking to you, you know, it's. it's. it's like, you know, in the cartoon when. the when the eyes go all squirly and. like and. then and then all of a sudden I'm not. me. >> And if I've done my work right,

All of a sudden, I'm saying what's. coming out of my mouth is what I. prepared. What what's coming out of my. pocket is what I prepared. The way I'm. moving is what I'm prepared because and. I'm not thinking about it. It's like. watching a great athlete. When a great. athlete is makes a behind the back pass. to the guy at the perfect sec, he's not. thinking, "Oh, I've got a cool idea, right? >> I'm gonna throw it behind my back. It'll. catch him right as he's in stride." It. it's years of practice that have let. them know that I know where he is. because where else would he be,

>> right? >> You know, and things that are at first. difficult become easy. Um, and then you. can even get better from there and get. better from there. But that's the. difference. People talk about, you know, I love Daniel Dewis, too. I think he's. kind of the high water mark of my trade. And you know, you hear these stories. about what he does and people say, "Well, is that what you're supposed to. do?" And the thing about when people say. method acting is they really don't. fundamentally understand what the method.

is. The method is uh an invitation to. find out for yourself what will unlock. your imagination. And that might be. going hungry for two weeks. That might. be sleeping in a jail cell. It might be. reading 25 books about it. might be. wearing a weird headpiece. It's this not. a rule. It's about how to unlock what's. in here and bring it forward. That's. what the greats do and find that zone.

This episode is brought to you by Uber. Eats. Every football season, the same. thing happens. The game somehow makes. everyone really hungry. Quarterback. scrambles, clearly a sign it's time for. breakfast burritos. Turnovers, suddenly. dessert at 2 p.m. Doesn't sound so. crazy. and wing formations. Well, those. can only mean buffalo wings, as if. they're ever not in play. Even the. goalpost start looking suspiciously like. French fries. It's almost like football. is sending the message to eat more food.

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and you really are that person. I I'm. not just saying, "Oh, he really is that. person." I'm with you. I'm with you in. the moment. I feel your anxiety. The. scene in the God damn it, I forgot the. name of it. The film you did with Julia. Roberts, the dystopian end of. Civilization movie. >> Yeah, exactly. Now that you said it, it. went out of my head, too. Um, >> it's a great movie. >> Uh, >> all the Teslas crash. Yeah, with Msha. Ali and I behind. >> Leave the world behind. Thank you. That's embarrassing for me. I'm supposed.

to know. But when when you said you. could remember it, then all of a sudden. it went out of my mind. >> It's less embarrassing for me now that. you didn't remember it cuz I was like, "Shit, I got to remember the name." The. the scene where you go up to the guy's. house and he pulls a gun at you. >> Yeah. >> I'm right there with you. I'm like, "Oh. shit." It was a great scene. >> Kevin Bacon. Yeah. >> Phenomenal performance because I [ __ ]. believed you. I believed him. I believed. you. I believed it was happening. And I. was like, "Oh shit." It was, "Oh shit.".

Like, it wasn't like these guys are. acting. >> That scene is exactly what I'm talking. about. Yeah. >> Because that's Mahersel Ali, Kevin. Bacon, and myself in a very well-written. scene. And those two guys are so easy to. act with. They are so they are is so easy to. disappear with them. >> We did that scene over and over and over. again, 15,000 different ways and blah. blah. was always I always loved it. Um. and. you know I did I had a temper tantrum.

that day um on set but I because. your body. you you're you're you're. winding your body up in such a way that. it's like a emotional currency or. something. You you you have this thing. you're going to spend but you have your. body doesn't know it's fake. And if you. do it right, you trick your body into believing that. I'm begging for my child's life. I'm not. acting. I'm begging Kevin Bacon for my.

child's life and he's going to decide. whether or not my child gets to live. Right? And if if you can get that that. going, [ __ ] starts to happen to you, right? Things you don't plan. And and if Kevin. is good, which he is, if Marshall is. good, then they're doing the same thing. right? He's if he gives me this thing. that I need, he's putting his wife at. risk. He's not going to do it. I don't. care about your kid, you know? And then.

Mhersa has got his character in his head. and then then all of a sudden people are. actually behaving. They're not reciting. lines. They're not It's like I did one. of my earlier movies with a wolf, right? It was best acting teacher I ever had, this wolf because it was this movie. called White Fang, right? Little Disney. kids movie, right? But it was a great. teacher because I had to do these scenes. with this half half breed wolf and if. I'm if you're the wolf, all right, and. we're doing a scene together and what. I'm really thinking about is the camera,

you know, the wolf turns around, looks. at the camera, you know, you know, when you meet. somebody and you know they're. self-conscious, right? You know why. she's why she's so tense? You don't you. just we're nonverbal. We can communicate. with each other. Animals pick up on it. instantly. If I'm actually talking to. the dog, the wolf, if I'm actually in, if I'm present with this animal, the. animal interacts with me, you know.

>> And um. >> especially a wolf. >> Especially a wolf, man. >> Yeah. >> Damn thing bit me. Bit me that day. >> Did it really? Yeah. Hard. >> Yeah. >> Why'd it bite you? >> All right. This is one of the best days. of filming of my life. No kidding. All. right. which is a amazing animal. trainer. Clint Ralph was his name and we. wanted to it was a scene where I'm. getting the wolf to trust me and uh and. it's going to eat out of my hand for the. first time and so Clint had this amazing. idea. It's like what if you could see.

from even from that shot how far that's. a long lens that thing. >> they put me on a little tiny island. where two you know like some two rivers. fork. >> and so there's a little island of land. right there. >> and so we put. see this wolf surrounded by water right. and and I this is flame this isn't the. the animal that I knew really well um. but we're the way to get it to look like. this we have not know each other. And I.

spent all day out there with this wolf. And whenever the cameras started. thinking I might have a chance of. getting to pet him, they would start. rolling. And I just talked to the wolf. and I'd walk around and play. And I just. had to try to be real with him. And he. started to like me. I'll show you. It's. not boring. And this I'm I'm getting. close because he's starting to like me. We've been playing a lot. And he comes. over and Okay, you'll see he he you'll. see him bite me if you want. Um, but uh, amazing amazing animal. But the point.

I'm trying to say is I we I sat out. there for 11 hours with this starving. wolf, [laughter]. right? Trying to get him to eat. Um, ready, ready, and. Ouch. Okay. [laughter]. >> That wasn't that bad. >> It wasn't that bad. Well, it bled, Joe. >> Did it really? >> Yeah. Sharp teeth. But it didn't look. like he was trying to hurt you. No, no, he wasn't. He wasn't. That's what I. mean. He He wasn't. He was.

>> um. And so, and by the end of the day, check. this out, man. >> I mean, it was one of the most. incredible experiences of my life. I. know it's a corny kids movie or. whatever, but but um. >> but it's a real wolf and he doesn't know. he's acting. >> Yeah. And he doesn't know he's acting. Yeah. >> Right. And so, I got to be real. And um. I mean I wept when that dog died, you. know, um cuz. and I think about that scene if when I'm. doing anything,

you know, about being present, >> right? And that's a. >> if I'm trying to get the shot, the dog. is not going to eat out of my hand. If I. actually want to say, "Hey, yo, you can. trust me, >> right?". >> You know, I'd have to give up for hours, you know, and just sit there and we. didn't have a phone. I just sit there. and whittle or something and walk over. there, toss rocks for a little bit until. he got, you know, it was it was such a. fascinating experience. >> Wow. Well, that's Yeah. You can't act,

>> right? >> And you never can. You never can. >> You never can. >> You never can. And one of the things. about, you know, there's a handful. Lori Metaf comes to the line, Denzel. Washington, Sally Hawkins, Laura Lenny. There's a handful. I mean, I could a. bunch of them. Philip Seymour, there's a. lot of great actors I've worked with in. my life. And what's so wonderful about. them is if you start acting, what are you doing? [laughter] Just just. this kind of kind of sense. Why? What?

>> Yeah. >> Something smells weird, >> right? >> Phil was the best at it because it. wasn't it wouldn't just be about you. Phil was amazing. He'd sit down to do a. scene with him and he'd be running it. and stuff and he just. What is it? Something smells bad. What. is it? Is it you? Is it me? I don't. know, man. Is it the cup? Is the cup. wrong? Maybe. Should I be sitting over. there? What smells wrong? Something's.

fake. What is it? What's fake? Pace it. up. Let's try pacing it up. No, it's not. it. Still bad. All. >> [sighs]. >> right, let me let me try this. And then. boom, the next day he'd scream at you or. something and everything would shift and. you know the smell would change in the. room. >> Yeah. >> And it was like he it's like we're just. shaking out what is self-conscious. Something is self-conscious here. Somebody's posing. Is it me? Is it you? Is it the [ __ ] prop? Is the table.

wrong? I don't I don't believe this. scene. And what it means is when you're. watching the movie, you the paying. audience aren't going to be able to. disappear something. You know, haven't. haven't you ever see you see a movie. sometime you're like, why is she wearing. that red jacket? Who thought that was a. good idea? And all you're thinking about. is a red jacket. It's just wrong. I. don't know why it's wrong, but everybody. knows it. >> It's like getting a wrong note. >> I don't necessarily notice with clothes. because I'm not very close conscious, but I do notice what you're saying about. self-consciousness, and I don't.

understand what it is. It's like this. untouchable, unweighable, unmeasurable. element that just exists and we know it. We know it's real. >> Don't you Don't you feel it in here? >> Yeah. >> When somebody's being phony with you? >> Oh, yeah. >> Somebody has a big agenda about what. they want to accomplish on your show or. something like that. >> Oh, for sure. especially political. people or people that have some sort of. a controversial technology that really. probably should be regulated, [laughter] you know, like uh I think.

what we're going to be able to do is. amazing things for humanity. >> and they get that tone in their voice. that that Charlie Brown w. >> it's just a air of [ __ ] and I don't. know what that is and I I I it's. >> but it exists in acting. It certainly. exists in comedy too. I always say like. when I watch a great comic on stage, they they take me on a ride. Like I let. them think for me. I'm sitting down. Think for me. You're thinking for me. And when someone's thinking for you, it's just like you're you're you're free. to explore their mind. And it's.

if they're self-conscious, you'll feel. it. Like I see someone tense like I have. a club and uh a comedy club in town and. when um new people uh audition there or. perform there, you [ __ ] feel the. nerves. You feel the nerves. And I'm. always like, just give him a few. minutes. Let them shake it out. Just let. them shake that. It's so hard when so. much is on the line to not be. self-conscious, to be present. >> But you're smart to give him space.

That's always what I feel. Just give me. space. Give me space. Give me space to. be bad. Yeah, >> I need I need space to be bad. And it's. kind of like in basketball, you got to. touch the ball. Let me touch the ball. Let me let me make. >> Well, we've all been bad. So, it doesn't. mean he can't be good. When I see. someone on stage and they're they're. they're self-conscious and clunky. I'm. like, >> this is a process. This is not this is. not like a rocket that when you screw in. the last rivets, you're ready to light. the fuse. I love watching an actor I.

admire be bad. >> [laughter]. >> I I love it. I love it cuz it's it's. [snorts] not it's it's not a science, >> right? It's not a science. >> Sometimes you got to take a shot and. sometimes you miss. >> Well, then sometimes you're going. through a divorce or you got a [ __ ]. drug problem or. >> or the director's an [ __ ] or the you. don't get along or they change the. script the other day or or you hate the. DP, >> producer's a douchebag. And but what I. always I always tell my kids who are. really interested in my profession or.

any young actor is like I call that. permission to fail is I don't I don't. give anybody. my I don't have permission to fail. You. know you I don't care if you don't like. the first ad. I don't care if you don't. like this this cannot give them that uh. ability. I still fail. I'm not saying. that, but I I don't want to seed it, >> you know. It's then and um but that. takes time. I I spent the first 15 years. of my career saying, "I didn't do a good. job because that guy was a jerk or I.

didn't do a good job because they. changed the script or I didn't do a good. job because of this, that, and the other. thing." And then you see people like. back to our hero thing, you know, then. you see people who are really good and. they don't they don't Robert Dairo. doesn't give somebody the ability to. screw up his workday. They don't have. that power. >> He He takes responsibility for that. power. >> Is that a learn thing or is that is you. could certainly learn some of it from. watching other people, but is that just.

an experience thing? >> I think it's a it's the right. manifestation of confidence, right? Young people have to fake confidence. They just have to. When you watch a. young person in your club, they got to. fake it. They of course they're going to. have to go burn through their nerves. They're going to have to. But once you. have experience, you can have real. confidence because you've fought this. battle before. I know I have a certain. if I'm overwhelmed with if my nervous. system is at war with myself, I have a.

certain process. I can. I've I've walked these woods before. You. know, I I I know why I'm lost and I know. what I need to do. Um and it doesn't. mean I'll always work through it, but it. I'm much more likely to than I was 20. years ago. >> Yeah. Um it's knowing that it's this. process when you watch younger people do. it. Do you ever like are you ever.

working with a young person and it's not. clicking somehow and you you're trying. to figure out how to help them? Like is. there a thing you can say to them? Is. there. can you just do it by example only? Well, you example's the best the best. teacher is example. Um, unasked for. advice is never heard from. The problem. with young people is they don't often. ask for advice, >> right? >> They think they're trying so hard to. pretend like they know everything that. they feel like to ask advice is.

>> I kind of feel like that's a. generalization though because I do know. a lot of young people that do ask. advice. >> All right. Well, one of the my thing is. I can't I cannot believe the amount of. young people who show up on set with. their phone. >> Oh, yeah. And what what you were saying. about hypnosis, let me tell you what's a. destroyer. >> of collective imagination. >> Yeah. >> Is is our phones. >> I was reading an article today and I. think it was psychology today about um a. study that they've done um recently on. the impact of social media on cognitive.

function for children and that it's just. [ __ ] nuking their brain. Ning I have. a 15year-old and a 17-year-old and a. 28-year-old. So what is your like. because my wife and I go through this. all they want it so bad and you as a. parent you want them to be happy and all. their friends have Instagram. I know it. destroys my brain. >> How could it not hurt theirs? I find my. own powers of concentration are.

suffering. I'll be reading a book which. I used to do all the time and every 10. pages I take a break to look at my. phone. What's happening? Why am I doing. this? >> Right? you you know what what so but. they want it so bad yeah. >> and I want them to be how do you handle. that. >> I do not put restrictions on my. children's use of social media but we do. have discussions about it because I. think it is an inexraable part of modern. society and I think there is a social. ostracization that comes from.

eliminating social media telling your. kid they can't have a phone I see it in. other kids I don't think that's the. solution. My daughter is loving you right now. She. is just [laughter] like, see, cuz she. says, "Let me be, teach me to be. responsible for it myself.". >> Help me do that. That's what I believe. >> And and you know, when we were thinking. about what restrictions we were going to. do, we went on this walk with this. really good friend of mine, Richard. Linkladder, is an amazing person. And. they tried to my daughters hit him up of.

what he thinks. He said, "I don't know. All I know is that the most important. thing is to be your own best friend. >> And that this is a slight obstacle to. it. That boredom, boredom and sitting. still with yourself. is a membrane you kind of have to pass. through. And if you can make best. friends with yourself, then your best. friend is always with you. And so that's. been my solution too is to say, "All. right, let's all there aren't.

limitations, but let's all sit down and. look at I'll I'll show you how much I. looked at it. How much did you look at. it? How we doing? Do you feel is it. helping? Is it hurting?" Because what. you're a thousand% right about is it's. part of the social structure of their. lives. >> Yeah. and to isolate them from it is to. has has you can't pretend that doesn't. have negative side effects. >> Well, one of my children, well, both of. my children, my young children are very. disciplined. And one of them just opted.

out, just decided she's not going to get. on social media anymore. And she got. this app, and this is nobody forced her. to do this. She got this app that locks. you out and it shows you how many days. you've been off of Instagram. sort of. sort of incentivize you, you know, to. stay off of it. >> You know, the last time she checked, she. had been off like 99 days or something. like that. No Instagram, no nothing. >> Um, but. it is addictive. And but there's a lot.

of things in life that are addictive. And so the the question is like how. addictive is it? Like what what is. calling you to get nothing? Because. that's what you get. You get nothing. you get these like tiny dopamine hits. like staring at something for a few. seconds like that's provocative or. that's crazy like why is he saying that. or why is that happening oh my god. they're going to die you know like what. I I have this terrible text thread. between me and my friend Tom Sigura. where we send each other the absolute. worst things that we find online every. day like every day it's guy got run over.

by a train car accidents gunshots. American assassinations it's just all. every day it's all the worst worst. things you could possibly find on the. internet. There's no good in that. You. know, we do that to [ __ ] with each other. because it's kind of funny cuz he's a. comedian, too. We just [ __ ] with each. other. It's just like silly like, "Oh, boy." Like, he sends me things and I. send him things. But for the most part, I get nothing. It's mostly nothing. Occasionally, I I say it's like as a I make this.

excuse like as a comic, oh, I need to be. up on the zeitgeist. I need to be paying. attention to what people are paying. attention to. But you kind of get it. anyway. you kind of get it anyway just. through life and it's better that way. because then you only get the real. significant things. You don't get the. the you don't have to sift through. everything. It's like you have um you. have a filter. Society acts as your. filter to get you the most pertinent. information. Um but I think leading by. example with kids is the best way with.

everything. My kids are both very. disciplined. They get a lot of things. done and they work really hard which I'm. very proud of. They're also really nice, which I'm also very proud of. I think. that's like the hardest [ __ ] thing to. do is to just be nice, >> to be a kind person. >> Um, the worst thing for kindness is. social media. Children in particular, uh, are so [ __ ] mean to each other on. social media. They're so mean to each. other in comments and they talk about.

how one of their friends is getting. bullied and this person is doing this. and they're leaving comments on this and. from a rival high school and a this and. a that and it's like [snorts]. but I also think that that process of. understanding that this there is this. bizarre social interaction that's not. real that is a a part of life and that. you have to develop a resilience to this. >> getting tough is important like I think. one of the one of the things kids are. experiencing now is what I experienced. with the first blush of celebrity. I.

mean, you want to talk about negative t. comments, try being an actor. Everybody's got opinion about you, what. a fake you are, what a phony you are, this is sucks about you, you're. >> this is dumb, this is what you're like. Um, you know, it's I have lost. unbelievable, ridiculous amount of hours. to my mother will send me a really nice. review of something something positive. about me, right? I'll look at it and my. brain goes, "What are the comments.

nasty? I mean, just the nastiest. things." And you can't believe. >> that some but I don't want to you know. give it too much time but. >> I actually think it really makes you. stronger to realize of course people. don't like you. >> over time it will make you stronger. >> It's fine they don't like you. Guess. what? Half the people every party you. went to didn't like you. Okay. But. they're also not thinking very much. about you. They're thinking about. themselves. And you start to realize. that this is just people talking at the. barber shop. People have been gossiping.

their whole throughout the history of. mankind. Now, you can read it if you. want, but it's it has no um venom in it. It It's not real, right? >> And the sooner you learn that other. people's opinions don't have to affect. you, I I think the better off you are. So, in that way, h it'll it hurt me. I've seen it happen to actors on. especially if you're doing stage. I'm. sure with comics it's it's when you're. doing a play and you have to do it every. night and you start reading a lot of bad.

things that people say about you. >> it is it is demolishing to your. confidence [laughter]. you know I mean I I had this actor. friend of mine we shared dressing room. and one day he came in and he was great. in the show and he came in and just his. whole energy was dark I was like you. already I went down the rabbit hole last. night. read what people are saying about me on. the internet and everybody thinks I'm.

terrible in this play and I'm like they. don't like your character, >> you know, like they're people are not so. brilliant, you know, there it's no. geniuses out there chiming in on what a. jerk you are at 3 in the morning, right? Okay. So you don't have to take it seriously. But you know, he it took him weeks to. get his mojo back because every he would. step out on stage just imagining this. chorus of hate. >> I had the exact same conversation last. night with a famous comedian friend of. mine. I won't say his name, but he went.

down a Reddit rabbit hole the other. night. >> I don't do it anymore. >> I don't do it. >> He goes, "I [ __ ] up and I went down. this rabbit hole. >> Don't do it. Don't do it. >> No good comes from it.". >> And he was like, "They [ __ ] hate me.". I go, "No, no, no. They hate themselves. They hate everything. There's no like. Michael Jordan's not leaving Reddit. comments. You know what I'm saying? Like, these aren't winners. These are. [ __ ] people that are not doing what. they want to be doing and they want to. hate on everybody that's out there. that's out there in the public eye. And.

some of it is valid. You know, the. really the scary hate is when you get. hate like from Quinton Tarotino where. he's going off on that guy from there. blood. But but you know here that's a. great lesson and it [laughter] is. actually there's a great lesson that you. know what I don't think Paul do ever. knew that so many people loved him. >> right. >> here out of nowhere out of nowhere Paul. do's just going about his life he's got. to wake up one morning and find out this. director's just went off on him and. saying these hateful things but. >> anybody that knows Quentyn knows he just.

talks talks talks talks talk talks talk. talks right anybody that knows Paul. knows he's a great worldclass human. being and you know and All this love for. Paul's coming out. And it's a great. lesson in that that you don't have to. worry about the negativity that people. send your way. You don't have to worry. about it at all. >> Even from one of the greatest actors of. or one of the greatest directors of all. time. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's okay. And guess what? Every, you know, I'm positive. Positive. There are great directors that think I. suck. I'm positive. Coinedly says the,

you know, he just says whatever comes. into his mind. I I remember once I met I. met some director. I won't say his name. at a bar. It was just it was a dive bar. in New York. I set up and he's a really. famous big shot director. He's sitting. there and he just seen my most recent. movie. He's like, you know, you were pretty good in that one. And in. the comment was the subtitle underneath. it. >> was, I have hated you for 27 [laughter]. years. That's it was so clear, you know,

and hypnosis came through. >> Yeah. I mean, it was so clear. I was. like, wow. Wow. Well, no wonder you've. never offered me a movie. And directors. have opinions, right? They have super. strong opinions. What do they have a. strong opinions about? Acting, right? And you know what? He's talking about. the movie he would have directed. Okay. That's he's not talking about Paul Dano. He's talking about something else. He's. like you said about the thing. They're. talking about themselves. >> Obviously, whenever anybody says. something hateful, they're talking about. themselves. >> 100%. >> That's not That's who they're talking.

and and um and the the punchline of this. whole thing is, you know, I I've worked. with Paul a couple different times and I. love the guy and I'm so happy for him. I. mean, every other every other comment. everywhere is somebody saying something. great about Paul Dano. >> The majority the vast majority of. comments were really positive about him. and I went and rewatched the scene. because of it and he was [ __ ] great. in it. >> Oh, he's a great he played the a great. like that guy. >> It's not up for debate. It's, you know, it's not up for debate. I'm sure if you.

were alone drinking with Steven. Spielberg, he'd shock you with some. opinion. He, you know, he hates. >> Orson Wells or something like that. You. know what I mean? I mean, I mean, we. wouldn't be a good director if he wasn't. opinionated. Of. >> course. You know, it doesn't mean he's. the truth. >> Of course. It's just um the opening up. your vulnerability to the masses. in the most trivial and flippant ways of. commenting, which is like leaving a.

comment on a YouTube video or something. like that. It's just not wise. It's not. It's not good. Especially if you. actually let it get into your psyche and. you take it in as real because we are. designed to recognize threats, danger, >> the negativity because it's important. Like. >> that's Sorry to cut you off, but that. that's the truth. The reason why it. hurts me. >> when it comes is exactly what you I'm. worried they're going to take my career. away. I love what I do. If I do a big.

movie and I really work hard and the New. York Times or the LA Times is says he. sucks, I don't really care about that critic's. opinion. >> Yeah. >> I care is is this going to stop me from. doing what I love because I know it's. fragile. I know that there are million. talented people, >> right? I I I know that I know that I'm. lucky. I know that I'm fortunate. So, it. is scary. It is a threat, right? I mean, but it is but you got you gotta get.

tough. I'm sorry I cut you off and I. didn't really have a good point. >> It's fine. But you know what I mean? >> Yeah, you do. And. >> I mean, I don't want to be cruel, but I. also, this is how I feel. Critics in. particular, I do not think they want to. be critics. And I feel like most people. who become critics become critics. because they don't have anything to. contribute. They're not great writers. they or they never developed the ability. to be a great writer or they never. pursued it or whatever it is. They don't.

they're not great actors. They're not. there's they're just criticizing. criticizing like criticizing from. Quinton Tarantino was a very different. thing than a criticism that comes from a. person that's just a critic. And I. remember I had this there was this. moment when uh Fear Factor came out. Like Fear Factor is a [ __ ] completely. idiotic show. It's just that's all it is. is just escapism. It's chaos. People. doing stupid [ __ ] for money. This is. crazy. This is nuts. Oh my god, are they.

really going to do this? Ah, and maybe. you get something out of the end like. that guy pulled it out or she did it. She didn't want to do the snakes. >> She Yeah, but it's really usually like. you the end thing is like something. physical. But. >> um Fear Factor came out right after 911. >> That's when it came out. And one of the. criticisms was, "Do you really think. America needs to be facing fear after we. just experienced September 11th's. terrorist attack?" And uh I got this. question in an interview and you know my.

my perspective on Fear Factor in the. beginning was I'm only doing this. because I think it's going to get. cancelled. I'm like I'll get some. material out of this. I'm like they're. going to stick dogs on people and make. them eat animal dicks. I'm in. I'm like, "This is g this is. gonna get cancelled in like [ __ ]. three weeks and I'm gonna have a bit on. how [ __ ] stupid this show was." And. it wound up doing like 168 episodes. It. was ridiculous. >> And I said in I got upset in this. interview, I go, "That's just. ridiculous." Like we they were.

questioning me whether or not America. needs to be scared after 911. It's not. [ __ ] scary. And I'm like, "What are. you t you're making something into. something it's not just so that you can. write an article? This is nonsense. And. I go, "That kind of criticism is the. type of criticism from a person where. I'm not interested in your opinion. I. don't think you're a particularly unique. thinker and you're saying something. that's nonsense. It's nonsense. It's a. stupid show. I'll tell you it's a stupid. show and it's my [ __ ] show. I don't. care. It's just entertainment. That's.

all it is." And I think the people that. write this are writing this in that way. because you don't have anything to. contribute. And I met that person at a. party. There was one of those uh you. know they have like if you're on a. television show they have those NBC. things where you go and it's like. there's all these different reporters. and all the actors from all the shows. are there and the guy was like you know. I got to tell you that really pissed me. off. I go why because it's accurate. [laughter] I go what pissed you off? I. go you say horrible hurtful things about. all these different people and the.

course of their career is dependent upon. your opinions in in a to a certain. extent. you could shape other people's. narratives about who this actor is, about who this person is, and you just. do it because you don't have anything. else to contribute. And so when I said. you don't have anything else to. contribute, that hurt your feelings. That's why it pissed you off. It didn't. pissed you off because I wasn't. accurate. And we had this like weird. moment, you know, where he was like. taking into consideration what I was. saying. And he was like, "Okay." And I.

go, "I'm not a bad guy. I don't think. you're a bad guy, but you have to. realize there's weight to your words.". And I've realized there's weight to my. words. That's why I lashed out like. that. I think this is stupid. I I'll. tell you this show's stupid. It's a. stupid show. We're not making [ __ ]. Shakespeare in the park, bro. We're. We're making people like line a coffin. filled with rats. It's [ __ ]. [laughter]. But it's okay. It's okay to have dumb. [ __ ] It's okay to have burgers. It's. okay to have, you know, filet man at a. fine restaurant. Like, absolutely. All.

these things are okay. Like, but call it. what it is. If you want to say it's a. dumb show, I'm right there with you. But. if you want to say like this is bad for. America because America just got. attacked by and it's called fear factor. Like shut up. >> Just shut up. And I just think he didn't. like the fact that I was. >> that you were criticizing him. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, >> I was willing to do what he does to him. without fear because I had already. checked out of acting. I did five years. on news radio and I decided I'm done. acting. I was like, I don't want to do. this anymore. I only did it for money in. the first place. I never wanted to be an.

actor. The only reason why I ever got on. a I I got on a sitcom with zero acting. experience. Zero. I mean, I had none. How did it go? >> I did I did MTV Halfour Comedy Hour, um. which was this comedy show that used to. be on MTV. I did like a 10-minute set. and I got a development deal. I was. like, "What?" Like, all of a sudden, they gave me money. I was poor my whole. life. And then all of a sudden, I had. $150,000. I'm like, "This is crazy. I. have money." Like, it was nuts. And my. manager actually thought I had a. gambling problem because I was spending. so much money. And he was like, "What.

are you spending money?" I'm like eating. lobster every night. [laughter]. I was so dumb. I thought I was just. going to run out and then I'd go back to. being poor again. And but all a sudden. I'm on this show and I'm acting and uh I. realized at the end of five years I it. was a wonderful job with an amazing. incredible group of talented people, but. I don't want to do it again. It's not my. thing. I don't like it. So when Fear. Factor came up, I'm like, "Oo, this is a. way to make a lot of money without doing. anything that's acting. Okay, I'll do. it." And so dealing with these people.

that I'd seen the impact of their words. on all the people that I worked with, like we used to we used to sit around, you know, you you have the table reads. and then people would start reading. Variety and they'd start reading the. Hollywood Reporter and all those. different things and and they would all. be super bummed out and I and I would. call it the devil's rag. So I'd go. there, oh, you guys are reading the. devil's rag again. I go, [ __ ] throw. that away. It was like the early. versions of don't read the comments. I. go, you guys are reading the devil's. rag. Don't [ __ ] read that. Because. then they would be all bummed out like, oh, they think we suck. Like, no, they.

they suck. We're trying to make a good. sitcom. Let's just try hard. The best. way to not make a good sitcom is to read. shitty things about you. >> Definitely. You're going to go in and be. really bummed out. And this constant. process of dealing with other people's. opinions and especially negative. opinions from people that you don't. really like in the first place. They're. not happy people. It is it's such a it's. such a poison for your mind. >> Well, and that's why we're talking the.

same thing with the internet is. >> figuring out a way to give it no space. in your mind because you know people are. going to do what they're going to do and. they're you're not in charge of them. That's what I I feel like the when you. absorb too much of that hate and take it. on yourself, you're forgetting that. somebody writes something hateful about. somebody else, whether it's Quinton or. whether it's this person or that person. or whatever. Most people hear it and think, "Wow, I. wonder why he said that. What's wrong.

with him?". >> They don't think something. So when a. lot of times I might take really. personally something that somebody. hateful writes about me, but it's not. like the world believes it, >> right? >> The world has people Michael Jordan. who's not writing comments might come. across that and think, "God, that. writer's an asshole." That's what he's. he's not thinking you're an [ __ ] or. I, you know, right? >> If you're not saying something. substantive, other people have a brain. in their head and they know it. And so. you can just ignore I I feel you can. just ignore it. I've never gained.

anything except perhaps the value of a. thick skin from all that. >> The value of a thick skin is important. though. And there is some there's some. value to to being hurt to taking it in. and and then realize it's dangerous to. take it in. >> And you must know like with your show I. imagine I don't really understand really. how this works but there's people who. finance it and distribute it. There's. people you have to work with and they. all have opinions and like I'm doing. this show right now. the lowdown with. FX, right? It's the first time I've ever.

done a a television show and I'm having. a great experience with it, but you have. to figure out, you're working with a lot. of different people. You got FX has got. their opinions about how the show is and. they're going to distributed on Hulu and. they're owned by Disney and everybody. And you have to learn how to take. criticism. Go all right. and also how to. stand up for yourself when you know what. you know your aim is true and you have. to be humble enough to tell the.

difference because anybody who thinks. they're always right is an [ __ ]. >> Right. >> Right. So sometimes you need their help. Yes. >> And and you have things to be taught and. sometimes you have to stand up for. yourself and say this is the kind of art. I want to make and I'm living and dying. on this. But. actually what you're saying actually. could help me do what I'm doing. And. knowing the same thing with directors if. you can't when you were talking about. advice for young people the the first. thing that popped in my head is.

something uh uh one of my first. directors said to me which was he said. what I was was 21. When I was doing my. first I was making my Broadway debut and. this director said, "What have you. done?" And I said, "Well, I I I did. Explorers, you know, when I was a kid. and I did this movie, Dead Poet Society, and I acted in this uh school play. I. played Tom and Glass Managerie my senior. year." And you know, and this director. looked at me and said, "So, you've done. nothing.". And I was I took offense at that, you.

know. So, I have done some things. He. said, "I need you to say I've done. nothing. I need you to say I don't know. And if. you can say, I don't know, I can teach. you. And if you can't say I don't know, then I really can't teach you." And it. was my 21-year-old ego like was just. buckling. You know, I do know what I do. I do know what I'm doing. and and and he.

said, 'You've never been on Broadway. before. You've never done check off. before. You and you can't say I don't. know what I'm doing. You know, I said, 'I can say that. I. don't know what I'm doing. See, it's not. that hard. [laughter]. You know, because if you can say that, I. remember this like the first time going. out surfing once like my somebody's. trying to teach me how to surfing. I was. like 16. I kept saying, "I know how to. do it. I know how to know. I know how to. do it." I didn't know how to do it, >> but I couldn't. My ego couldn't buck. And if you can get to that zen tabulas.

no place, the beginner's mind. See, now. at 55, I always say I don't know what. I'm doing. >> It's so easy for me to say it. >> Yeah. >> You know, it is so easy. You know, one. lifetime is not enough to know what. you're doing. There's so many more. rooms. there's so many more layers, you. know, and so that's the the advice I. have for young people starting is to be. humble and admit because you've done a. handful of things doesn't mean you know.

what you're doing. And even though I. might have even had some success, I. didn't know why it was successful. >> Right? You know, that's a great the beginner's. mind is a a a great point to start. because even if you're really good at. something, like say you're a good piano. player and you want to learn how to play. tennis, you you you start from a. beginner's mind. You have to. And if you. go into that tennis lesson going, "Do. you know how [ __ ] good I am at. piano?" Like, "Don't talk to me like.

that." Like, "No, you don't know how to. play tennis. Let me show you how to play. tennis." Like everyone is a beginner at. a thing they don't know and to take on. as many things as you don't know as. possible to keep that beginner's mind is. actually immensely beneficial for your. ego for your objectivity for everything. >> for everything because see with somebody. like you who's had a lot of transitions. in your life about different career. paths and different things that you're. that's always forcing you into a. beginner's mind and that's I think I've. done the same thing to myself you know.

like what keeps me excited is like all. Right. God, I don't know. I'm going to. write a graphic novel. I'm going to work. with this guy, Greg Ruth. He's a. brilliant illustrator. I'm going to make. a graphic novel. Now, I've never done. that before. I have no idea how a. graphic novel works. I know I've loved. them my whole life, but I've never made. one. Greg has, right? We work together. He'd teach him. Sterling Hardjo with the. show The Lowdown. Boom. I've never done. a show. He made reservation dogs. He's. done this. I don't know this landscape. And I love that feeling because I don't. lose all the value of the things I do.

know about. It's all there for me. It's. all there for me. I don't have to. announce it over everybody. It's not. going anywhere. >> But if I can orient myself into. learning, I like making these. documentaries because I don't I'm not a. professional documentarian. But what's. weird about it is if I do that and I get. in this real kind of open space and then. I come back to acting that beginner's. mind channel is open and I'm available. to learn something from somebody else.

that maybe I might because one of the. things I thought when I was young is I. thought there was a right way to be an. actor and I was obsessed with somebody. doing it wrong. this director is a. [ __ ] [ __ ] and he's ruining my work, >> you know. And then slowly I really. realized it's so obvious there isn't a. right way to make art. There are successful ways and. unsuccessful ways, but I wanted. everybody to be Peter Weir. That's what.

I wanted. Peter Weir had made Dead Poet. Society and that's what rehearsal is. supposed to be like. That's what the set. is supposed to be like. That's you. That's how you're supposed to talk to. other people. I didn't know I my mentor. was a card carrying awesome human being. And I was having unrealistic. expectations about other people on their. path. They haven't they haven't done all. that Peter's done. They don't know it. all. And I just it would anger me that. they weren't, you know, and and then if. you can get in a kind of a a more open.

mind, then you can really listen to. people and and absorb where they're at. >> in their journey. And you're not going. to change them, you know. You're not. this idea that, you know, especially in. a film shoot, three, you're not going to. change the way they think. You know, you. got to try to do your thing. Lead by by. example. >> Yeah. >> You know, and and try to let them not. negatively impact you, but maybe you can. be open and learn something from them. And then that whole beginner's mindset. is just immensely beneficial. Like you.

were saying, how you carry it over to. your acting. I I would recommend that. with anybody who does anything. find. another thing that you're not good at at. all and get into that because that will. help you with the thing that you're good. at. And haven't you ever noticed like I. took it's it happens so often that it's. funny like I take my son out to teach. him how to shoot, right? First ski thing. you just blast it right out of the air. Second one blast it right out of the. air. Right? You know, you teach somebody. to shoot a bow or something. First air. they fly, hits the target, then they.

don't hit the target again. you know, your body, you start thinking too much. You know, you hear I hear I don't know. anything about golf, but I hear the same. thing that's true with golf. Young. people are often great actors. It's. adolescence in life that makes it harder. to get back to that childlike place, >> you know? And so I I think I've even. been talking to my wife a lot about I. want to start trying to take piano. lessons just to do something I've never. done because I know I know it rattles my. brain. >> Yes. >> And makes my brain see things.

differently. take a new language on, learn how to play chess, do something. Yeah, it's it's hugely beneficial to be. a beginner. I think a person that only. does one thing, there's something very. valuable in that, too. But do one thing, immerse yourself in that one thing, and. do it the best you can. The term, it's. true. >> You know, the the the um the term. kaizen, it's a Japanese term for um. refining something over and over and. over and over again for decades until. you absolutely have it perfected. And I. I believe in that entirely, but I also.

believe that to master a craft, you have. to apprentice three or four. That it's. it's good for like I I'm an actor and. I'm going to die an actor and this is. what I'm going to do. And and I have met. >> older actors who are amazing who I know. I'm not as good as. And it kind of. thrills me. It it it it it. thrills me h how to there's little. nuances of conversation that I don't.

quite understand yet, but I know that. they do and I know that they're right. and I want to understand more deeply. And. I just feel that. I don't know. I lost my train of thought. about that. I don't know. I just totally. my computer just shut down. I forgot. what I was talking about. >> It's okay. It's I think more people need. I I think the problem is when you're. really good at something you find. identity in it. >> Oh. Oh, that's what I was I was saying. is like I I know I want to excel at this. one craft, but I know that when I direct.

something, when I write something, if I. make a graphic novel, a documentary, I'm. I'm learning about things that are. adjacent to my specialty. And by doing. that, when I go when I go to set and I'm. talking to a writer, I know how hard he. worked on the script. >> Yes. >> I'm not going to willy-nilly change his. lines because I'm not in in the mood or. I don't like the way my hair looks or. something like that. I'm not going to do. that. I I have respect for what he did. and because I have that respect, I can.

offer him my thoughts. and we can probably get involved in a. really mutually beneficial conversation. because I've directed. I don't look at. some director and think, well, what like. I did when I was younger, he's stopping. me. I'm thinking, I know this guy's. sweat this. I know this guy picked this. location for a reason. I know this guy. has a tenuous relationship with a. cinematographer. I know the producers. are breathing down his neck. I know he's. got a lot of headaches. I'm going to. help him and I'm going to try to find an. app. You know what I mean? And so, so.

these ancillary I. >> I do want to have a specialty, >> but I do think learning the piano might. help me be a better actor. Like, I don't. know why. I don't I don't know the logic. behind it. >> I think in particular in acting that. would be true because acting is you. becoming someone else. who's in life and life involves a lot of. different aspects. There's a lot of. different things that go on in a human. being's mind. The more you can introduce.

to your mind, the more that would help. you become a variety of different people. that you're performing as. See, I mean, wouldn't it be phenomenal? Be very. weird. But like, so you and I have been. talking. And I would venture to say. we're doing pretty well. Threearters of. the time we're completely immersed in. what we're talking about. And then my. brain, why my computer shut down is I. start thinking about this actor that I. love, Richard Eastston, and I start. thinking about how I'm still not as good. as he is. And people, he's not even.

famous, right? And then I I couldn't. remember what I was going to say. Right. and you're talking to me about your kids. or something and your there's no way. your mind doesn't drift to something. going on in your life and and mine does. too, >> right? And and and. so that's what real life is like. And. the actor's job is to figure out the. text and the text be so clear and in. there that then you can figure out all. the other wavelengths. You know, when. you're watching somebody grade, there's. all these other wavelengths that are. happening. They have nothing. They It's.

not that they have nothing to do with. the script, but it's like it it's like. the difference between a sketch and a. oil painting. You know, the script is. kind of a beautiful sketch and the. actor's job, director's job, production. designer, we're turning that into an oil. painting. >> And and so anyway, um I'm just saying, wouldn't it. if I could put a subtitle under. everything we're really thinking while. we're talking, how different would it. be? How much more would I learn about. you if I knew what you know what your. guy's relationship is really like? Does.

he get on your nerves? Do you hate it? You know that he wears a black cap? Do. you wish you wear the red one? Uh does. do you know you know you know you know. what I'm saying? I got there's so much. about when I'm in your space, so much I. don't know about what's going on today. or what you guys are doing later today. or how you cut the show or what's. important to you about the show or. >> I forget about things I'm talking about. all the time because I'm trying to lock. into the other person's brain. >> and sometimes I forget what I want to. say because I'm trying to like I'm. trying to think like you. I'm trying to.

like completely be in the moment and. think like you. That's what I try to do. when I'm doing when I'm having a. conversation with a person. I try to be. as completely locked in as possible. So. much so that sometimes I forget people's. names that I know really well. I forget. all kinds of things. >> That's cool. >> Because I'm not thinking about anything. else other than the what that person's. thinking and saying. >> and trying to like decipher it and. trying to like trying to like, you know,

guide the conversation in some sort of. an interesting way. But I I I forget all. kinds of things. I for I'll forget. important people's phone numbers, birthdays. I I don't remember anything. Like so many times I'll I'll ask Jamie a. question like, "Who is that [ __ ] what. what is this [ __ ] name?" And then I I. I can't believe I can't remember. It's. because I'm not there. I'm lost in what. this person is saying. So I'm I I have. to like sit down and open up my files.

and go, "Oh, there's all the information. again." But I'm not there. So, I can't. do that. So, I got to go, let me go back. to my desk and I'll open up my files and. now I have my information. But when I'm. talking to you, I'm not at my desk. That's what it's like for me to to have. a great role. >> My brain disappears. >> Yeah. >> Into that other psyche. And I can kind. of do some of the normal stuff of life, drive my kids to school and do some. things, but this part of me is floating.

over here. imagining was this the right way to how. should I wear the jacket? Oh, would he. drive a car? What kind of car would he. drive? Is that the right car? Is that. the right like, you know, and just my. imagination when it's really cooking. um takes me away. My favorite things. about it is I don't think about my. phone. I don't think about the emails I. didn't return. I didn't think about. whether I forgot so and so's birthday. for this period of time, this job is so.

important to me that I'm willing to say. nothing else matters. But I but doing as. good as I can in this moment. Obviously, it's going to matter again when I leave. the dressing room and when I when when I. do this. Obviously, I'm trying to be a. good adult and. >> father and husband and citizen and all. that stuff. But. >> it gives me a space where everything. else can disappear. Everything else. Yeah. >> And that's what's what's so fun about a. big a big ensemble. Like [snorts] I.

don't people may like the movie or not. like the movie, but I did this remake of. Magnificent 7, right? And when you have. a big cast and everybody's in period. costume, you know, and everybody's on. their horse and your jacket's from 1876. and their shirt is from, you know, from. the Civil War or something like that and. it's all real and there's these old. taverns built and there's dogs on the. set and horses peeing and you know what.

I mean? It's it all is so real and you. my life is gone. >> Yes. >> And I'm just Goodn Night Robo. Yeah. >> And you know, and I got to worry about. how many bullets I have left in my. thing. And you know, and it's you're. it's a it's a back to hypnosis. And it's. a wonderful relaxation. And that's the. strange thing about it is it's like, you. know, when you're a kid and you first. look at the stars or the ocean or. something and it you feel powerfully. your own insignificance and your.

intellectual brain would think that that. would feel bad. Oh, you're if somebody. told you, hey, you're insignificant. That feels bad. But when you look at the. stars, it feels great. >> Yeah. >> And it's it's the same feeling of like, why would disappearing feel so good? I I. did um when I was young, I did this play. with Steve Z. Great actor. Have you had. Steve on your show? No. Oh, he's a. genius and he's so funny. We were doing. a play together. >> and um and I would say to him,

"Tonight's show went really good. Do you. think did you think it went well?" He. go, "Yeah, I thought it went really. well." Yeah. And then the next night I. come back. Tonight sucked and it sucked. Thought it went really well. You know, and you always think it goes really. well. He goes, I never remember. [laughter]. And the truth is he's so zen. >> He's so in the moment what you're. talking about when you do comedy or when. you do your interviews. He is so in he's. so present that he honestly doesn't. remember. And that's the trick is he.

doesn't have this huge opinion. >> Yeah. Because the opinion gets in your. way all the time. >> Yes, it really can. Yeah. And I think. the ultimate in the moment for a person. that doesn't have a craft or a thing is. staring at the stars cuz you realize you. are a part of everything and you are in. this infinite soup of existence that. all of your troubles and your it seems. so insignificant in comparison to the.

vastness of what's in front of you. >> And that lets your shoulders lighten up. >> Yeah. And then you can handle what you. can handle. >> I I've talked about this before, but. I'll I'll tell you. Um when I was uh. younger, when my oldest daughter was I. think she was only like five or six, we. went to the KEK Observatory. in Hawaii. And um I don't know if you. ever been there. It's on the Big Island. >> But uh they told us it's like an hour. and a half drive. They told us when. you're driving up there, um, go you're,

you know, you're going to go to the top. and hopefully there won't be any clouds. so you get a clear vision of the sky. So, as we're driving up, there's all. these [ __ ] clouds. I'm like, "Oh, this sucks. This is going to suck. We're. driving all this. We're not going to see. any stars." We [clears throat] drive. through the clouds because it's really. high. And you get up to the top and. you're above the clouds. And we got out. of the car and my [ __ ] jaw dropped. It was nuts. It was the craziest image. and I I've been there three times since. Never recreated it. There's always been.

cloud cover that's higher up. I just. caught it the first time I went there at. the absolute perfect. It changed my. life. It changed my perspective on the. universe itself because it felt like I. was it felt psychedelic. It felt like I. was in a spaceship, like a convertible. spaceship, and I was looking through the. windshield, and we were flying through. the cosmos, and there was an impossible. amount of stars in the sky. There wasn't. a spot in the sky that wasn't filled. with stars. The Milky Way was clear as.

day. It was [ __ ] bananas. That's what. it looked like. >> You didn't feel like you were on a. spaceship. You are on one. >> You're on. Yeah. >> Look at that. That's it. That's well. that's what it kind of looks like but it. was actually even more profound than. that but that is the kek observatory. >> you know when I was telling you about. white fang my experience with. >> so I was out there so this is 1989 right. I'm in Hannes Alaska it's about 100. miles north of Juno there's no internet.

um the mail comes once a week on Monday. if it's bad weather the mail doesn't. come till the next week right I'm there. for six months um I'm 19 years old. there's There's nobody to talk to. I. mean, there's no co-star. >> Was he the only 19-year-old there? >> Listen, this the guy who was the. production, you know, the the production. manager or whatever, he was hyper AA, right? And there's one bar in town and. he told the manager if I was seen in.

there, he would shut it down. [laughter]. There was nowhere else to go. >> What a dick. >> I I was like, I I told the guy, I said, "Look, I'm not going to drink. I got to. like the stunt men are hanging in there. all the other actors are hanging out in. there and I had nothing to do cuz I. couldn't go in the one freaking bar, right? And and for the first three. months I was there was always dark, right? And then the second three months. it was always light and it was just But. anyway, the point is I went on this long. walk and I saw the Aurora Borealis by.

myself, you know, and I'd see it night. after night. So I just see this sky. rippling and it was like what you're. talking about. It was like it it. actually made me laugh. >> Wow. >> Do you know it just seemed it was funny. It was like the cosmos was teasing me. going oh you think all this is real. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I was like I do I do think it. matters whether white fang is a good. movie. And then I just giggle you know. and I was like oh you have no idea.

what's going on. And it was it was some. like you're talk I something you don't. unsee. >> Yes. >> You know I still have over my desk I. have a little postcard from Hannes. Alaska and it still comes to me in my. dreams all the time. I'm back there. >> Wow. I think we're being robbed of that. because of cities. Light pollution has. robbed us of I what I think all of our. ancestors always inherently observed. When nighttime came around, everybody. realized, well, you're you're a part of.

the infinite cosmos, and there's magic. to the universe. Which is why there were. so many people, you know, hundreds, if. not thousands of years ago, that had. these whimsical tales and these ideas of. the importance of life and existence. when they're in the most brutal moments. of history. You're in the most brutal. moments of of life, life or death, hunter gatherers, waring tribes, but yet. at night, you're presented with this.

impossible majesty of the cosmos above. your head every night. Now, today we. have [ __ ] social media. This is your. sun. This is your star. You're staring. at a stupid [ __ ] screen and when you. look up, you just see nothing but. blackness because there's all these city. skyscrapers. Exactly. It's blinded out the one thing. that is like one of the most important. humil humbling like grounding. experiences peering at the cosmos.

>> Isn't it weird? It's so hard to be in a. bad mood when you're looking at the. stars. It's so hard to be in a bad mood. when you're riding a bicycle and you. feel the wind in your I mean it's it's. just it's funny. It's such a simple. little thing, a stupid little invention, this bicycle, but you get you ride. around. It's very hard to stay in a bad. mood if you spend two hours on a. bicycle. >> Yeah. Uh, and there's so many things. like that that we rob ourselves of, >> you know, I I don't know even like I. find when I'm in nature, exercise, when. I run outside and I'm running through.

the trees and I see a hawk and I see the. wind blowing through and I pass a farm. with sheep and I it's like I come back. from a long run. high and I feel like I. like myself, >> you know, and in in [laughter] the city. I go to the gym. >> and I got on one thing highlights of all. my sports teams that I love and they're. blinking up and down and then I got the. world is ending on all the news channels. blinking up and down and I got guys who.

are in better shape than me walking by. and girls who are super hot walking by. that I'm trying not to look at and be a. good person and and I walk out of the. damn gym and I hate myself. >> Uh, you know what I I mean, I' I've got. some exercise, but it wasn't I long for. the country and I like But anyway, >> it's a certainly a different experience. >> Yeah. Doing it outside. >> Is that too much information? >> No, that's [laughter] us. That's me. That's everybody. And you know, and the. the thing is like the gym wants to keep. you occupied because then you'll you'll. show up more often. It won't be.

incredibly boring. If you go to a dank. dungeon of a gym with nothing on the. walls other than a small mirror that's. covered with other people's spit, you. know? I think that's why we all liked in. Rocky when he like goes goes out into. the barn. >> Rocky four. >> That's the one I'm thinking of. That's. the one I'm thinking when the barn is. freezing out and it's just him and. carrying the log. [groaning]. >> Yeah, it's hilarious. [laughter]. >> Yeah. Well, we like the idea when and. and I was going to bring that up earlier. when you were talking about immersing. yourself in a role and preparing for a.

thing is one of the more romantic things. to me about fighting when when I know. that like when like this past weekend. there was a big UFC when a fighter goes. into a camp they go off somewhere they. leave their family behind often for like. two months at a time and they just. completely immerse themselves in. preparation for this one thing that's. going to happen. And every little thing. that distracts you robs you away from.

the potential of that one possible. majestic performance, that one career. definfining performance which they're. all chasing after. And for a. championship level fighter, it's like. the immense pressure and then this. thing, this. mo, you call it romantic because it is. kind of romantic. This romantic. task. >> Oh, it's dedication to excellence.

>> Yes. >> It's full dedication. >> Full complete dedication. the way that. you're even talking about trying to do. your interviews or trying to do your. comedy, you're trying to be insight, but. to have something so I mean I envy that. when I read about fighters and the. dedication I really kind of long for. that experience that that idea of going. away and I think there's something about. I've always I don't know if you think. this but whenever I pass by a monastery. um a convent or some of these people who.

are dedicated to their spiritual calling. so completely. that they've isolated out all the noise. of life. >> Yes. >> I find I'm like I'm really glad they. exist. I'm glad in the same way I feel. about fighters. I feel like I mean with. the fighters I really envy it because I. we all would like to test ourselves. How. how much could I dedicate myself? How. could I could I go to the next level? How far could I go? And and I think that. um oh just singularity of focus it it.

feels really good and there is something. I think I love stories about fighters. and [snorts and clears throat] for just. that just and and the fact that it all. rests on these x amount of minutes. >> Yeah. And chaos and just. >> what was it like? >> What was it like watching. >> fighting? >> Oh fighting terrifying. >> Yeah. Did you ever would you ever get to. a place I've always wanted to Would you. ever get to the place where you're. walking into the ring and you weren't. afraid?

>> No. If I did, I didn't perform well. There was a few times where I was. overconfident and I didn't perform well. because I tricked myself into not being. scared. So, because I wasn't scared. because I didn't like being nervous. So, I tricked myself into thinking I'm so. good, I don't have to be nervous. And. then I'd fought so many times. Like the. problem is complacency. So if I probably. when I was competing I probably had. somewhere in the neighborhood of a 100. fights in martial arts. And so I did.

nothing but that from age 15 to 21 just. traveling around the country. And there. was times where I did it so much that I. was not nervous and that I would go. there and I wouldn't fight well and then. I would go why is I why I missed. opportunities. Even if I won I was like. hyperritical. even if I won, I just. didn't like I got hit when I shouldn't. have got hit. Like something was off. I. didn't perform that well. And I realized. somewhere along the line, I think right. around I was like probably 19 or 20 when. I really started to figure it out. I was.

like, "Oh, you have to be scared. That. thing that you're you don't like, that's. critical. It's critical to your. performance because it keeps you on. edge. You have to be nervous. You have. to be Mike Tyson talked about it. There's a fantastic video of Mike Tyson. um from his documentary where he's. talking about his mindset leading to him. getting into the ring and that you know. he he talks about See if you can find. that Jamie. It's [ __ ] excellent. because this was Mike Tyson when he was.

Mike Tyson when he was the most. terrifying heavyweight boxer that ever. walked the face of the earth. There was. a period of time over like two or three. years where I don't think anybody has. ever come close to Mike Tyson. >> Yeah, I know that's true. >> He was just supreme. He was so good and. so different than anybody before him. But it was also his mindset. He's a. great scholar of history. You know, I. had a fantastic conversation with him. about Genghaskhan. And when we started. talking about it, he knew Genghaskhan's.

real name. His real name is Temojin. He. knew his history that, you know, >> such an interesting person. loved all. his interviews. >> He knew that Genghaskhan's mother had. been kidnapped by uh on her wedding day. been kidnapped by a rival man and taken. away and impregnated and the man that. she was supposed to marry she never saw. again. And then that Genghaskhan was. born with a blood clot in his hand. He. was holding on to a blood clot as he as. he was a young boy. And it was like a. sign that he was going to be a great.

conqueror and a warrior. But listen. listen to this. I'm going to have. supreme confidence, but I'm scared to. death. I'm totally afraid. I'm afraid of. everything. I'm afraid of losing. I'm. afraid of being humiliated. Closer I get. to the ring, the more confidence I get. Closer, more confidence I get. All. during my training, I've been afraid of. this man. But closer I get to the ring, I'm more confident. Once I'm in the. ring, I'm a god. No one could beat me. >> That's a abbreviated version of it. It's. different in the in the film. It's like.

a little bit more drawn out. Somebody. edited that down for Instagram. But it's. >> this thing where you would think, how. could that guy be afraid? >> How is he afraid? He's Mike Tyson, and. this is Mike Tyson in his prime. >> But you have to be afraid. You got to be. nervous. If you're not nervous, you're. not going to perform well. >> Well, it makes me think about earlier in. our conversation when I was talking. about, oh, you know, when I think about. when I was young and I would be really. nervous and pretending I wasn't nervous. and that was the problem. And that now I.

said to you, I still experience it. I. just know what to do. >> Yeah. >> You remember like that we were talking. like that. What I was. >> what I know what to do is not to pretend. that I'm not nervous. >> Right. >> That's it's as simple as that. When when. he's saying I'm afraid, >> that's very powerful. It's kind of the. same a different spin on what I'm saying. about it's okay to say I don't know. >> Yeah. >> You know, I am afraid. And there's. there's a great Sarah Burnernhard story. about this young actress comes up to.

Sarah Burnernhard. She's this great. actress from the previous, you know, a. long time ago. But this before she Sarah. Burnernhard was about to go on stage, this young actress asked her to sign her. program. Sarah Bernhard took it and her. hands were shaking. And this young. actress said, "Why are your hands. shaking?" And she was, "I'm nervous.". She and the young person said, "I'm. never nervous when I act." Sir, Bernard, when you know what you're doing, you. will be [laughter]. >> and and that's great.

>> And and it's a part of like what you're. talking about with your fighting knowing. that. there's nothing wrong with anxiety and. with nerves. They can be your friend. They are there. They are here to warn. you, prepare you, make you train a. little harder, make you think a little. sharper. >> Treating it like. >> I'm embarrassed. I'm ashamed of being. nervous. You know, Bill Russell. apparently would like be sick to his. stomach before every game. This is the. most winning basketball player in. history. He was still and that's why he.

won so much, >> right? >> You know, you have to care. >> You have to care. >> You have to care. And then strangely. what that Tyson clip said, if you can. say that, the closer you get to game. moment now, you're not pretending and. you realize, oh, for me it's it's just a. scene. It's just a play. It's just I can. handle this is. >> you remember that uh Jaguar Paw in. Apocalyptto when he has that moment he's. running through the woods and he's so. afraid and he realizes this is my forest.

you know he's like I don't I don't have. to be afraid in my forest you know I'll. fight these guys I don't I'm going to. stop running it's a great moment in that. movie and and I feel that way. >> when before I'm doing something um this. last movie I did Blue Moon really really. challenging part I I had so much. confidence when we were talking about. making the movie then all of a sudden it. was green lit and so but like when I. flew to the location and I saw the set.

and was like oh it was the weekend. before we started I got so nervous I got. sick. you know I woke up in the middle of the. night just in pools of sweat and. and my body was just like going Ethan. this is going to are you ready are you. ready. >> you know and And I would wake up ah I. would had to get up so early to go to. work. I'd wake up an hour and a half. before. I was like I got to go over these lines. again. I got to go over this. How is. this character walking? What is he.

doing? What is he saying? Is it is this. part ready? Is this thing ready? Do they. know what they're doing on that shot? Does the cigars ready? All the things. What are the things that are going to be. that screw the today up? I got to How. much can I see the day? >> Yeah. >> So that none of these things that might. screw it up are going to screw it up. And so I kind of know what he means when. it comes to you've passed through the. fire. So when it comes to fighting, well, he's either going to lose, win or. lose. It's going to be okay. But. you know, there's something powerful. that anxiety can be a great friend. His.

mentor customado was also a hypnotist. >> He really Yes. He was a psychologist. >> Yeah. He's a completely fascinating guy. He started hypnotizing Mike when he was. 13. Um, one of the things that he told. Mike, he said, "Fear is like a fire. It. can cook your food or it can burn your. house down.". >> Yeah. >> It depends on how you control it. >> I feel the same way about money. Feel. the same way about ego.

>> I feel it. It can be the fuel of a. healthy life, but it has to be um. >> garden has to be managed really well. And it's sadly. >> daily. >> Yeah. >> Daily. It's not like you I'm sure we're. both old enough to know it's not like. you have some breakthrough when you're. 33. I've had breakthroughs. I feel like, oh, I get it. I get it. I get it. >> And then the next day you get it. >> Shit's gone. [laughter]. You know, and it happens to you over and. over again. And and I that's life, I.

think. >> Yes, that is life. Yeah. And that's. that's great for young people to hear. because they think that there's going to. come a point in time where they made it. where there's no fear. And I'm tell I'm. here to tell you, you don't want that. You don't want it. It's never going to. come. And even if it did come, you don't. want it. It's It'll rob you of the. exciting part of life. >> You ever hear that Jim Carrey bit always. makes you laugh. He's like, he wins the. Golden Globe, he goes to bed at night. He like goes, "Gosh, I'm a Golden Globe. winner. What if I could be a twotime Golden.

Globe winner? What if I could be a. three?" You know, the brain brain always. wants more. >> Always. >> It's just it can't stop. >> That's why billionaires still work. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Why are they so miserable? >> Because it's just chasing numbers. Chasing numbers. >> One of the thing about in the rooms that. I've been in with a lot of money. compared to the rooms I've been in where. there isn't a lot of money. If you. compare the laughter, >> right? Yeah. >> It's no contest.

>> Well, there's so much pressure involved. in that kind of. >> So, why would you want a house with no. laughter? You know, >> I don't think they have options at that. point. I think they're so locked into. what they do. >> and uh it's it gets so competitive. They. get I've seen guys like that who get so. happy about a a deal going right. >> that that's what it's fascinating to me. I mean it's like I I. wow I didn't I didn't but because the. inverse is true. If that makes you so.

happy. >> Mhm. What happens if you lose that. >> right. >> million bucks or whatever 20 million. >> and it makes you happy for a brief. amount of time because the reality is. once you're wealthy everything else is. my friend Brian said something to me a. long time ago the only amount of money. you want is where you can go to a. restaurant and not worry what the bill. costs everything else is [ __ ]. >> well I I liken it to what happens if you. get an offender bender you know I don't. want to get an offender bender and have. a a lot of trouble. >> right. >> like I want that to be taken care of.

like. >> you don't you don't want to not be able. to pay your rent because you got a. fender bender. You don't want your kid. not to get their medicine cuz you got a. fender bender, you know, like like you. need to have room, a little a little. padding to like. >> I've never. >> there's no expense uh vacation, an expensive vacation with my kids is. not better than any vacation with my. kids. >> Right. Right. Right. Right. >> You know, a romant thing. >> Yeah. I don't, you know, you can spend a.

fortune on a romantic weekend. It's not. as great as it is to get stuck in a car. when it's a blizzard out and you listen. to a great record and she looks. beautiful and says something funny and. you both laugh. That's you you can't buy. that, >> right? >> And and and. but there's this feeling like you could. >> Well, our society puts so much emphasis. on ultimate success. Like who's the. richest man in the world? Well, do you. think the richest man in the world is. happier than the 30th richest man in the.

world? They're all rich as [ __ ] Like. everything is available to them. It's. all nonsense after that after a certain. point. Like what are you doing? Why are. you still working? Why are you still. chasing zeros and ones? Like what is the. point? >> What are you chasing? >> Me? >> Yeah. >> I don't I don't think I'm chasing. anything. I I try not to be. I just. enjoy what I do. I try to. >> that's I don't relate to it because. that's that's what led me to the. question is like. >> I'm like what am I chasing you know what. I'm chasing.

what I said earlier like I um. the last thing I shot we had a couple. moments of grace you know just where. like I can tell the crew's losing their. lunch and everybody's so happy with the. take that we got and it's kind of moving. and oh it was perfect and the light came. through the window at the time and then. Peter Dinklage said this hysterical. thing and he wasn't supposed to say it. but it worked out perfect because then. the other actress then she responded in.

that way and then my hat fell off and. everybody's and it's just it's high and. I drive home and I want to tell. everybody and I can't wait for the world. to see it you know I am chasing that. like could that happen again. >> you know but it's not something I. control it's not something. um that it's a feeling I'm chasing but. it's tangible thing. It's not status or. money. It's you're you're chasing you're. doing, you know, for lack of a better. word, art,

you know, and art has a sort of a. pretentious air to it. A lot of people, you know, there's there's certain words. that have been sort of co-opted, but the art of creation, >> the art of you would never I mean, I. know you're exactly right, but it. happens to me all the time and it. bothers me that what what people think. is pretentious and what people if I say. to you, you know, I really want to make. $100 million. Nobody says I'm. pretentious. >> Right. Right. >> If I say, you know, I'd really like to. make something I'd like to make.

something beautiful that really moves. people. What a pretentious asset. >> Right. Why is it? What I was going to say was. Well, you go first. >> Sincerity. It's sincerity because some. people say that and they don't mean it. And that's most of the people that say. that. That's the true. What I was going. to say is like if you're you say 15, 14, your daughter, your youngest, >> 15. Yeah. If if you came home today and. she had made this crazy collage and it. was combining pictures of her friends. from high school and this beautiful.

watercolor that she did around it and. she sprinkled glue on it and dropped. sparkles on it and put it in a weird. wood frame that her mother had given her. that she like and she said, "Isn't it. beautiful, Dad?". >> You would would you ever say that's. pretentious? >> Of course not. >> Of course not. >> Yeah. But the goal what I've when. somebody says the word art to me I don't. hear pretentious I hear the solar system. >> I hear like human creativity inside of. us man it is inside me and it's inside.

you and when I see a great movie or when. I hear Jimmyi Hendricks rip a killer. solo then my whole body vibrates. Oh hey. we're alive. >> Yes. >> You know when Johnny Cash comes out with. a sound you've never heard before. when. it's a great rap song, you're like, I. got to hear that again. >> I feel my heartbeat with that. >> That's art. It's not pretentious. It's. it's it's real. >> And and so I I feel that way very. strongly. And that makes me want to go. to set and that makes me not care.

whether the movie makes a billion. dollars and makes two cents. There's a. great one of the great old English actor. Paul Scoffield. I I I'm going to destroy. this quote, but it was in his obituary. and he he was in this great movie when I. was a kid, Man for All seasons, and he. was in Redford's quiz show and he was a. great English actor and when he died in. his obituary, there was an interview. with him. He said, "You were performing. King Leer at your local church at the. end. Why weren't you doing it on the. West End?" You know, because you were.

you were healthy enough. They were. asking why are you doing he was doing a. play at a local church near me say I. really like w walking to work and I've. realized that I really. have always only performed for whoever. it was is that made me and I can do that. anywhere I can do it on Broadway I can. do it in a Robert Redford movie and I. can do it in my local theater it's the. same action and it's taken me a lifetime. to realize that it doesn't I just love.

to do it. And he's like, "And I'd like. to walk to work, so I'm not going to. West End." [laughter] And and I thought, "I love this guy.". >> Yeah. >> You know, well, that is real purity. Yeah. When you're you're not chasing any. prestige. You're you're only doing it. for the thing. >> And I bet there are people that he loved. there. >> Of course, >> other people you're doing it for. >> Yeah. You know, >> of course. Yeah. And it's probably more. purity to it knowing that it's not going.

to be reviewed in the New York Times. It's like you're you're doing something. that you're only doing it for the love. of it. And if you want to be if you want. to play pro ball, you know, there's. certain things, you know, if you're, you know, the Auggie the. great um he used to coach for UT. baseball. um his great thing that he'd. say that why he didn't coach the Yankees. or the Red Sox because he won five NCA. championships. See, the problem is with. Pro Bowl, the object of the game is to.

win. And in college sports, my job is to develop young men. And if I do that right, we will win. >> But it's I like the priority. And I feel. like if the priority is my own. development, >> you know, >> then in more times than not something. good will happen. If my priority is to. win, make cash, be a big shot, blah blah. blah, right? >> I've I've kind of lost why you should.

play the game. >> Yeah. >> You know, and and the trick for me is. well, I do want to be a professional. actor. I like. >> I like being relevant. I like making. relevant art. I like talking to people. and communicating with people. So you. have to figure out that balance of like. all right this is how I pay my bills. This is you know what facilitates all my. whole life. So I have to. be a little attentive to the. professional part of my brain and not. let it diminish the kid in me.

>> Yes. >> You know and to keep them both in some. kind of balance. >> Yes. >> And that's for me been my adult life. that the term developing men or. developing people, developing young. people. My uh martial arts instructor. when I was a young boy, he there was. like a pamphlet that they had released. explaining what the classes were all. about. And in it, one of the quotes that. always stuck with me forever is, "Martial arts are a vehicle for. developing your human potential.".

>> So is acting. >> Yeah. So So is anything. So is playing. chess. So is playing music. So is. carpentry if you do it right. Everything. >> Everything. >> Yeah. Miamoto Mousashi, the famous. samurai, had a great quote. Once you. understand the way broadly, you can see. it in all things. >> Yeah. I carried that in the art of. motorcycle maintenance. That's the same. idea. >> Yeah. There's it's the the real the the. real beauty of it all is concentrating. on the development of the the thing and.

in that thing you will grow as a human. And that's the thing when we're talking. about boxing or fighting or acting or. whatever that the thing about the 100%. focus is it. it's it's kind of. by shedding everything there's a. discipline to that about seeing all the. little details I find for example in. acting they always talk about this um is. he a good listener like one of the. things like are you responding naturally. like a human being can you.

in in the art of teaching myself about. acting about how to be present with my. scene partner. I've learned how to be. present with you with my kids when I'm. at a baseball game with my friends. >> Right. Right. >> It actually like it's meaning I'm taking. the same idea that if you train to do a. fight well and you really feel what. excellence at that level is like, you. can feel it in other things. It it can. translate you. You know what sloppy.

thinking is? If you've been relaxed while you're. doing something hard, you know what it's. like when you're tense because you're. not having that feeling that you had in. that fight where you were really great. That's the same with my I I've done. performances where it goes up all by. itself and it's amazing feeling and a. lot of work and preparation has to go. into that feeling of disappearing. But. now I know when it's not happening. And. it doesn't mean I can make it happen,

but at least an awareness that it's not. happening is a great starting place to. go, why is it not happening? >> Right. Something smells. >> Something smells like Phil was saying. >> Yeah. Yeah. I want to talk to you about. cuz Jamie brought this up yesterday. Uh. Denzel Washington when you're doing. training day like so much apparently. Jamie was saying of the dialogue that. you guys had was completely improvised. by Denzel. He he is uh an astonishing. I mean it's like.

yes the short answer to your question is. it was. we would be doing rideounds you know in. the back of these cop cars watching. these arrests or talking to some of. these people who really lived the life. that we were doing and they would say. something really funny you know and I. would just see Denzel would like glance. at me. and I realized Oh [ __ ] that just went. in the computer, [laughter] you know, and then it would come out, you know, in. a scene two months later that line that.

that guy said. Exactly. It would come. out. Um, it was a great script. I don't. want to David Air wrote the script. It's. a phenomenal script. I mean, when I read. that script, I wanted that part so badly. Uh, Denzel's one of my favorite actors. He. is probably my favorite actor. Um, I. think you know Malcolm X and Raging Bull. are two. >> towering maybe Nicholson one flew the. Cuckoo's Nest like Liv is like the three. great performances of of my lifetime.

Um, and. but his. he's always listening, always listening, talking, asking, thinking, curious. Um, so present, so commanding. Um, and if. you take responsibility. for your own work, you can you can have a great experience. And if you don't, he's he'll run you. over. [laughter].

>> Like I I heard like King Kong ain't got. [ __ ] on me. That was all just completely. improvised. So, it's like towards the. last day of the shoot and um I had been. When people say improvised, they think, "Oh, just some magic lightning bolt. happen." It's months of work. It was. improvised. He's just supposed to yell, "Fuck you." or something as I'm walking. away. And this monologue flew out of his. mouth. You know, y'all going to be. playing for the Pelican Bay Allstars.

This is my neighborhood. You all just. live here. King Kong ain't got nothing. on me. Just all this stuff was and it. was it was the last day of shooting or. third to last day or something. And it. was all his prep. Just he's just this is here's here's a. line that didn't make the movie. Here's. another line that didn't make the movie. Here's another thing I wanted to say. Here's another thing. And he just. started throwing them all out there. And. I I [ __ ] you not, man. Um the shots um. it's on me. I'm walking out of the, you. know, walking away from me screaming all.

this stuff. And that's when I say I'm. chasing a feeling like that's one of the. I mean to just be there that day, you. know, to watch a, you know, a great. somebody who's working on a different. level than everybody else, you know, he's he, you know, he makes all of us. look like we're mastering checkers, you. know, and and he's and to but to be. there and be part of the magic and I. knew where I I'd heard him audition some. of those lines other places, you know, we'd run lines together and he tried.

this thing as he. He was amazing. Amazing. That's what I. mean about the power of his imagination. He was Alonzo and anything that he would. pick up or hear would go into the. computer and then it would he would look. for the ways that it could help the. script. Look look for ways, you know, he wasn't. uh, you know, he wasn't putting. selfishly tearing the sail up to make it. about him. He was always looking to to. help. I even remember he came to the set. the day I have the scene that he's not. in um with the the cholo gang you know.

and there we're playing cards and you. know you read your [ __ ] pushed in that. scene you know where they put me in the. bathtub and um Denzel came to set and he. watched the scene he was like damn I'm. like what this is going to be the best. scene in the movie and I'm not in it. hate this [laughter] scene it was funny. he walked away. it was but it was very gracious I mean, he was all in that movie. [snorts]. >> Yeah. That's awesome. That's awesome.

>> Ethan, thank you very much, man. This is. a really fun conversation. I really. enjoyed it. >> I'm really glad you had me. >> Thank you. And thank you for all the. movies, man. I'm enjoying the [ __ ] out. of you. >> If you can't tell, it's been my. pleasure. >> Thank you. It's been mine as well. Thank. you. Bye, everybody. [music]. >> [music].