Joe Rogan Experience #2421 - Derek, More Plates More Dates

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. All day. >> Oh yeah, bro. D tell me about your new. drink. Look at this here. Red gummy. fish. I'm about to try it for the first. time. And this is a neutropic. >> Yeah. So it's uh I think on the first. episode maybe that I did with you. >> Robust, eh? >> That's good. >> Yeah. >> Oh, that's delicious. Oh, you mean.

robust? You're saying it like a. potentially is flavor and uh. >> I think it's great. >> Oh, right on. >> Red gummy fish. This [ __ ] delicious. >> I drink the [ __ ] out of this. >> I'm glad you got a lot of stuff in here. What's in here? >> So, I think it was the first time I was. on you asked me about Guerilla Mind and. the neutropic formula that I used before. podcasts and, you know, to get. cognitively dialed. And at the time, it. was a capsule-based formula and it still. is. still exists, but taking what we. could to suspend in a liquid format and. getting it into something that's more.

like publicly and widely accepted that. they would want to drink on a regular. basis and is something you could use. daily. It's kind of what we did in this. So we included essentially like a daily. use version of the Gorilla Mine formula. which includes the tyrrosine precursor. for dopamine as well as other. neurotransmitters catakolamines like. adrenaline nor adrenaline. Um also alpha. GPC most bioavailable form of choline. it crosses the bloodb brain barrier and. is pretty efficacious and also just a.

good choline source in general which. most most people are deficient in as a. nutrient and I think completely unaware. that it's actually important to be. supplementing with potentially um pretty. hard to get an adequate amount of. choline but. >> where does it come from in food. >> liver is a good source eggs and in. general it's just like the highly. nutrition dense foods that you would get. it from a lot of people aren't focusing. on specifically either because of. caloric density or it's like an. animalbased like nose totail thing or.

fill in the blank. It's not impossible. to do it. A lot of people who focus on. it could probably relatively easily, but. it's still one of the things you have to. focus on actually kind of like. maneuvering into your diet typically. So, in general, most people are at least. maybe like 50% of the way that are at. best. And that's even among people who I. would say are relatively balanced diet. individuals. But. >> interesting. So, I'm sure you're you're. familiar with colonergics and their. impact on, you know, cognition and.

whatnot. >> Uh, caffeine, tried and true. You know, >> how much you got in here? >> 200 milligrams. >> Nice. >> Very difficult decision trying to come. up with what is the amount you're going. to stick with in perpetuity in this. thing. >> Everyone's addicted now. >> It's a real issue with caffeine. So it's. like the fine line balance of not too. much, something that is still uh you. know tolerable, sustainable, going to be. widely accepted and widely impactful on. a beneficial level but not overdoing it. And 200 is kind of what we landed on. >> And then urodine monof phosphate pretty. unique ingredient. I haven't seen.

anybody ever included in a drink let. alone even in supplements typically. It's. >> what is it? >> So it's also something that operates via. the colonergic system but in a different. way. mainly it's uh utility is kind of. enhancing your sensitivity to. stimulants. So somebody who is otherwise. desensitized from like heightened. exposure to things that either. desensitize them to uh caffeine or. nicotine or things of this nature even.

some like the ADHD medications. Um this. can actually at least the literature. suggests strongly that it enhances. dopamine neurotransmission potential. like almost restoring function and. damaged uh dopamine producing neurons in. the brain. So you can kind of get a. heightened impact out of the same level. of stimulant. So a caffeine dose that. might otherwise be you're used to it now. you start to feel it again more than you. used to without having to increase your. caffeine intake. >> Oh. >> yeah. So, it's a pretty cool ingredients.

and it seems to have some. neuroprotective properties potentially. as well. >> and some uh interesting literature on. like Alzheimer's and whatnot, but it's. more like fringe and to be determined. how impactful it is. Um, and then on top. of that, we have althenine. You're. probably familiar with its effects. stacked with caffeine increases alpha. waves. It's good for verbal fluency as. well as just general uh attention and. concentration but keeping you a little. bit more balanced and mellow while you. have the heightened stimulatory activity. from the caffeine and the other kind of. like dopamineergic compounds. And then.

also saffron extract which is a totally. unique inclusion in my opinion. Still. don't really see it in neutropic. formulas let alone in drinks. And it's. something that in literature is shown to. be as efficacious as pharmaceutical. SSRIs without inducing the same uh. erectile dysfunction inducing effects of. it and without causing the same. anhidonia inducing effects which is kind. of like the muting of like pleasure in. the in uh the brain. So.

>> saffron. >> yeah super interesting ingredient. It. seems to be pretty impactful for. depression, for um anti-anxiety, and it. also operates through a seemingly. different mechanism even though it's. often stacked up against SSRIs for its. comparisons and outperforms them or. matches it with a relative lack of side. effects. It is something that operates. through seemingly antioxidant activity, some dopamineergic, some serotonin, and. just a little bit more of a benign way. to achieve what is a similar outcome,

but with a seemingly lower, if not. negligible to non-existent side effect. profile. I'm not saying that's what our. drink does. I'm just saying that's what. the literature on saffron does. And. anyone can go look that up and reference. it. And then hoop pair probably the most. impactful uh acetylcholinist inhibitor. that you can include alongside like. choline precursors. So it inhibits the. breakdown of acetylcholine as opposed to. being the fuel like the precursor like. choline acetal uh alpha GPC CDP choline.

These are things that provide the. substrate to actually produce the. acetylcholine, preventing the breakdown. of it too. Could otherwise get like a. one-two punch where you get the. heightened fuel substrate but then also. an inhibition of its breakdown. So you. have just like a heightened level of. cognitive uh capacity um through both. like the one-two punch. >> How did you determine these. like doses and what you were going to. include and not include? Uh, so a lot of. it derived from the original.

capsule-based formula. So back in, I. don't know, 2021, I had already been. using this thing for daily use. essentially. And it was something that. was determined based upon years of. experience, um, personal anecdotes, but. digging through hordes of clinical. literature. Ultimately, there's a lot of. these compounds that have clinical. studies on them for different. applications. you can kind of sift. through what are the efficacious. dosages, where are they impactful, whereas a sustainable level, you could. actually take this long term without it.

being negatively impactful on because. sometimes if you overdo it in one area. over time, it might be problematic. So. trying to find the fine balance of where. is a dose that moves the needle but. isn't going to kind of like push you in. too far of a negative direction that. it's unsustainable. >> because sometimes that this stuff it's. like a hammer solution. you might see an. energy drink that's like 300 350. caffeine and it's like okay you know. >> you've essentially like singled out a. lot of the customers who might otherwise.

benefit from it even if there was other. good stuff in the drink. It's like only. stim junkies can use it now, you know. So, >> yeah, >> this is kind of like the fine balance of. what I thought to be the most. sustainable version of balancing, you. know, dopamine input, serotonin. activity, getting some of that, you. know, anti-anxiety support and also. getting a reasonable hit of caffeine. >> And did you so in pill form? So, did you. start out by using each individual. supplement and then trying to use them.

in combination to see if there's a. synergistic effect? Like, how did you do. it over time? I guess maybe that's a bit. more interesting than digging through. literature, but when I was a university. student, just like being a nerd, mixing. stuff in my kitchen like a chemist. essentially and just measuring raw. powders back, you know, in the day what. we would do or at least, you know, like. biohackers and what have you, we'd buy. just like off of different websites raw. bulk ingredients and then you'd measure. out with little micro spoons in these. laboratory increments to try and get,

okay, the microgram equivalent of this. And you'd make some disgusting shake. with a concoction of different. unflavored powders and create what is. your ultimate kind of combination. through trial and error ultimately. >> And were you like doing a diary like. today I feel great? >> Yeah, I was just keeping a log almost. like you know working out like how did. you respond to fill in the blank or um. >> did you take into account like sleep all. these different factors, diet? many. variables at the time. Obviously, a bit. more rudimentary and crude when you're.

like 21 years old and you're just trying. to like. >> get cognitively locked in to study for. finals, but back then it was just. >> what is the most impactful things that. I've heard work and then also digging. further into literature, looking on the. limited uh forums that existed back then. on online because it's a lot more of a. like a niche community back then. It's. not like this was widely discussed. uh. 20 2009 2008. >> Oh, early days. >> Yeah. So, like. >> that's when I first started [ __ ]. around with them. >> Oh, yeah.

>> Yeah. I I first found out about Neuro1. That was the first one I found out. about. >> Okay. >> Did you ever try that one? >> Neuro one. >> It's Bill Romanowski's company. >> The football player. So, he developed it. because he was having cognitive problems. after, you know, years and years of. playing football. M. >> and so uh he came up with this. formulation and uh I was doing this. radio show Allison Noame in San. Francisco and No Name's a dude I forget. his name unfortunately. >> yeah yeah so long ago but he uh was. working out with Romanowski Romanowski.

was trying to get him in shape and he. gave him this stuff and he said hey try. it and it was you know I do morning. radio when you're promoting like I was. doing Cobbs comedy club when you ever. doing a comedy club you'd show this is. back in the day when radio meant thing. You'd show up in the morning and you do. the morning drive and uh they would go, "Oh, Joe Rogan's appearing at the comedy. club this weekend. Come see him." And. you'd be funny on the radio and have a. good time with the people. And he gave. it to me and I was like, "Hey man, this. stuff feels like something's going on. Like this is legit." And that's what.

really got me. That's how we developed. Alpha Brain. We developed Alpha Brain. after me trying out Neuro One, saying, "Is there can we optimize this? Is there. another way to do this? Is there, you. know, other forms that we're missing?". And but your formulation seems like very. comprehensive and also [ __ ]. delicious. >> Yeah, that's one of the difficult things. too is making it taste good while still. being able to suspend the active. ingredients cuz they could just fall out. of suspension or myriad of different. issues, carbonation problems,

>> even exploding cans in transit that. you're not predicting are going to react. a certain way. >> Even the black lids, dude, like it's. stuff you don't even think of, but it. absorbing heat. It's like, oh, it's. gonna be more prone to blowing up now. because of that. >> Oh, because of a black lid. Did you want. a black lid just for aesthetics? >> Yeah, at the time it was like this. This. looks cool. >> Yeah, exactly. >> And so, what are you sweetening this. stuff with? >> Uh, primarily sucralose, which. obviously, you know, some people have. their opinions on it and that's totally. fine and good, but in general based on.

clinical literature seems to be well. tolerated. And what is the issue with it. that people have? I think some people. think it depends on the person and like. the kind of content they make typically. and typically they have a bit of a. >> a bias. >> Yeah. But in general it's you know going. to irritate your gut or it could cause. GI distress and for some people with. extremely sensitive uh gastrointestinal. uh issues it can for sure but in general. at the dosages used and just having it. even conservatively which most people. are going to be it's like pretty benign.

at least from the literature I've seen. One of the things that we had uh noticed. when we first came out with AlphaBrain. was for some people, it's a small. amount, but for some people they would. get headaches and they felt terrible. after taking it. >> Um I don't know what their dose I don't. know if they were taking the recommended. dose or if they were saying, "Well, two. is good. I'll take five." And there's a. lot of folks like that out there. But um. >> yeah, some of these if you're not. careful, it could be, you know, pushing. you into uh like we vetted this out.

beforehand, but one of the first. formulations or prototypes of Gorilla. Mind in the capsule form, we had. something called velvet bean extract, which standardizes to L-dopa. So like. Levodopa is used for like Parkinson's. patients because it's a direct precursor. to dopamine without a rate limiting step. that kind of like inh regulates the. conversion. So rather than using. tyrosine, we were like, we thought, and. we didn't end up releasing it because of. this, we could just go, okay, let's get. a straight precursor and see how.

impactful this thing is because we. really wanted to hit and [snorts] oh my. god, I I [laughter] had like dopamine. overdose myself. Had my girlfriend at. the time also [ __ ] herself up and my. parents [ __ ] themselves up and somehow. it [laughter] didn't it didn't occur. until like like three incidents later, I'm like, "Okay, this thing is. unsustainable. And I guess my my business partners. didn't really even think worth. mentioning, which was kind of crazy at. the time because they just trusted me to.

do the formulations and whatnot, but. they had the same experience and didn't. bring it up. And I'm like, guys, like we. can't relate to this [ __ ]. >> It was just like way too intense. >> What did it do to you? >> Just like makes you extremely nauseous. You feel like you have to keel over on a. couch and just lie there until you feel. like you can actually regain composure. and start moving around again. >> Really? Yeah, dopamine. A lot of people. think more is better. You're going to. have more motivation, more drive, more, you know, the the more the better is. what a lot of people think. But similar. to probably even worse than stimulants,

because at least stimulants, you have. kind of like a direct BOF feedback. through your heart rate's going through. the roof and you're getting the anxiety. With dopamine, if you overdo it with. something that you can't like rate limit. either, you just like get sick and you. just end up having to lie down for. hours. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. Uh, one thing I like about a drink. versus uh a pill form is that you can. just take a little. >> Yeah. You can meter your dose. >> Yeah. Because you take a pill, you're. taking a pill. That's it. You can't like. unless you want to cut pills in half or.

pour some of the capsule out. No one's. doing that. But this is nice cuz you. could just kind of sip a little bit of. it. >> How many of these can you drink in a. day? >> I could drink a lot personally. [laughter]. >> Like you don't even want to know, dude. >> How many do you drink a day? >> Uh, on a typical day, probably two to. three. But I kind recommended. >> Oh, check the warning label, bro. >> What does the warning label say, bro? >> I [laughter] It must say no more than. two a day, but I would say on a podcast, not more than one is what I would. recommend.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Well, especially with all that caffeine. as well. >> Yeah. You never know. Um, in general, 400 milligrams is even like the FDA. stated, you know, everyone's going to be. okay probably dose. But in reality, it's. kind of crazy. A lot of people don't. realize the studies done for uh caffeine. induced performance enhancement are all. looking at like 3 to 6 milligrams a. kilogram which is like unless you're a. tiny woman 400 500 600 milligrams are. the doses that actually really move the.

needle when it comes to acute. performance enhancement. >> Uh Chel Sunen used to take it in pill. form. >> Yeah. because um he was saying that. there's a level where they'll test you. well you'll pop where they'll say okay. you're in a stimulant level like you. took a stimulant before you fought. >> Yeah they have a they had threshold. concentrations that they would deem. inappropriately high perhaps for safety. perhaps because they thought it was an. unfair advantage. It kind of. >> I think that's what they were looking at.

it. >> It kind of depends though because I. think it was removed and I don't think. that threshold exists anymore except in. the NCAA. I'd have to revisit it, but. I'm pretty sure caffeine is like. essentially you could go full bore at. this point. >> Interesting. So 5600 milligrams was what. the efficacious dose was. >> Um, so you can get performance. enhancement as low as I think some. people was like a milligram per. kilogram. It depends on the person and. tolerance of course, but in general the. most tried and trueue studies when it.

comes to repeatable high impact with a. proportional relative lack of side. effects but not none was like 3 to six. milligrams a kilogram and some of the. studies go even higher than that. >> Interesting. And what what are the. benefits like what did they get? uh like. acute uh strength enhancement um. offsetting like any sleep induced. deprivation in performance outcomes. mentally. You can pretty much offset. like a shitty night of sleep and all the. kind of detriments to your performance.

via a pretty solid dose of caffeine. Um. yeah, most of the stuff is kind of. energy acutely offsetting performance. decrement related but also in a context. of strength. um highintensity activity, you can absolutely get a benefit from. it. And there's a reason why, you know, sprinters will take, you know, medafanyl. or highdose caffeine or power lifter, powerlifters will take, you know, massive doses of, you know, pre-workout. before a lift or whatnot. >> Like it's all impactful for your.

psychological state to get really like. locked in in a hyper vigilant state to. really max out on what you're trying to. do, whatever it may be. >> This episode is brought to you by Happy. Dad Hard Seltzer. A nice cold happy dad. is low carbonation, gluten-free, and is. easy to drink. No bloating, no nonsense. When you're watching a football game or. you're golfing, watching a fight with. your boys, or out on the lake, these. moments call for a cold Happy Dad. People are drinking all these seltzers. and skinny cans that are loaded with.

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roan to buy one Happy Dad Trucker hat. and get one free. Enjoy a cold. Happy. dad must be of legal drinking age. Please drink responsibly. Happy dad hard. seltzer tea and lemonade is a malt. alcohol located in Orange County, California. Um did you I had a podcast. the other day with Chris Master John. Do. you know who he is? >> Yeah, he's great. >> Great. Um, and we were talking about uh. the impact of creatine and you know and. they're trying to figure out like what.

what is the correct dose and a lot of. people are going 20 30 they're getting. pretty high you know because recommended. was like 5 milligrams I think. >> Yeah. >> And now everyone's saying actually the. real benefits are at 20 and you know at. least 10 but you're getting a lot of. what what happens when people have uh. sleep deprivation. Um, and I I'll. butcher the science, so I I won't try to. repeat it, and I recommend anybody. listen to the episode, >> but what he was essentially saying was.

it it bypasses all the problems that. occur, >> and you could at least have a bridge to. uh your your performance would not be. impeded by a lack of sleep, at least for. a temporary Yeah. >> for a day or whatever. >> Yeah, definitely want to touch on that. But one thing to mention on the caffeine. too is I think a lot of people when they. hear the stuff like you know I heard you. can go up to 20 grams of creatine or you. know the high the highest impact dose in. caffeine literature is you know 3 to six. milligrams a kilogram. It's not like I.

or I imagine Chris is like blindly. recommending anybody start there. >> Exactly. And it could easily get. misconstrued that way in like a. clippable format if people will just. like hear the headline and then run with. it. Like in you should start as low as. you can with caffeine. And you could get. a erogenic effect as low as I think the. lowest dose was like 50 to 100. milligrams probably if you equated to. body weight but it's all like tolerance. dependent. Mhm. >> It's just when you look at the studies. like these are the repeatable high. impact outcomes are typically in uh and.

especially in like trained athletes. where you're trying to see how hard you. can push them. It's kind of like you. know for max stress resilience, max you. know acute force production. These are. the kind of dosages that are just used. in the studies. So anyway, with that. caveat and same with the creatine, you. know, you might [ __ ] yourself if you go. to 20 right away. Like you don't you. don't want to start there. >> A lot of people do apparently. >> Yeah. And I mean like like Rhonda. Patrick amazing content and she. tolerates 20 grams well which is kind of. like surprising cuz I know a lot of.

women who don't. I think she does a. probably uh micro doses it throughout. the day and is really regimented about. making sure she's diligently spreading. it out. But some people who they bomb 20. at a time. Even guys who think they have. iron stomachs just [ __ ] all over the. place. >> It's so much powder too. I think just. the fact that you're consuming all this. powder. >> Yeah. Oh, yeah. Speaking of which, are. you still doing the like million gummies. a day? >> Of what? >> Of creatine. >> No. >> You said you were going to crank that. [ __ ] up to get to 20 gram.

>> I stopped with the gummies and I went to. powdered form. Yeah. >> Oh, okay. >> Cuz I felt like I'm tired of eating. these [ __ ] things. >> You got up to like what, like 10 plus a. day. And you're. >> Oh, more. I was eating like 15 a day. 15. 15 gummies a day. But the the issue is. like what else is in the gummies? You. know, what are what are the other. things? You know, gelatin. >> calories either. It's kind of just like. if I'm going to eat candy, you know, I. kind of want it to be like good candy. >> Yeah. I don't even know what it's uh. sweetened with. They taste good. But the. point was is like I didn't like eating.

them. I was eating too. I was like. forcing myself to chew these things. down. I'm like, what am I doing? I could. just mix creatine in a glass of water, stir it up real quick, and just chug it. in 5 seconds and we're done. I don't. have to chew and swallow all these. stupid [ __ ] gummies. I know. >> But I do keep them. I keep them around. because I think it's it's a great thing. Like if I hadn't had it enough lately, I'll just pop a few. >> It's like the best gateway drug, if you. can even call it's not like a drug, but. to get people who otherwise would never. try it to actually see the benefits of. it. So like I know so many women who.

literally refuse to take the powder cuz. it's like. >> even though it's kind of like tasteless, it's still a nuisance. can be a little. bit messy depending on the scooper shape. of it and everything and how you're. gonna trying to convince a chick like. it. Trust me, it's really good for your. health if you like, you know, [ __ ]. swig this thing dry and then chase it. with water every [laughter] day. >> It's not it's not the easiest cell every. time. They're like, "Fuck you. I don't. care." So, the gummies are good for that. in my opinion. And um yeah, I mean going.

back to the 20 grams and the offsetting. of you know performance deteriorations, I do think it's uh basically offsetting. kind of the deficiencies in uh like ATP. production especially locally in the. brain and also uh kind of offsetting the. pulling of resources away from like. methylation support and whatnot in order. to produce the endogenous creatine as. well. These things can all be impactful. to kind of like get you back to almost. baseline. So if you're in a deteriorated.

state, being able to offset the. performance decrements from an. otherwise, you know, sleep-d deprived. state or, you know, you're traveling or. what have you, like it can absolutely be. super impactful and the literature has. shown that time and time again. >> What's interesting is that creatine in. the 1990s was thought of like steroids. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it was really like frowned upon. like, "Oh my god, someone's taking. creatine, they're cheating." It was. really That's like how it was first. introduced to the market. to hide it. from your parents when you're a. teenager. >> Really? >> Yeah. Well, at least when I was a. teenager, it was kind of like.

>> it had a taboo still. It was like, you. know, kind of like steroids light. version. >> Well, it's cuz it works. >> Yeah. And parents, but they hear the. stigma and the taboo associated. Like, I. heard creatine, they're selling it at. the GNC's. >> Yeah. >> You know, better watch out for that one. >> Meanwhile, they had real steroids at. GNC. >> Oh, yeah. The irony, too. I mean, >> like [ __ ] M1Ts over the counter from, you know, like some 19-year-old kid. who's just like manning the counter and. doesn't care and will like [ __ ] your. endocrine system up to sell it to you. >> 100%. I took some stuff called Mag 10.

Do you remember that? >> Uh, if I saw the ingredient deck, I'm. sure it's just like some [ __ ]. run-of-the-mill N1T product or. something. >> Gained like 10 solid pounds of muscle in. a month. >> And I bet your liver markers, not that. you did blood work back then, were. destroyed. >> Yeah. Like worse than if you took like. Injectable Tren even. >> Right. Right. Yeah. It's crazy. >> Yeah. Well, 100%. It killed my dick. afterwards, too. When I got off [snorts]. of it, I was like, "What's going on?". And I was like, "Oh, this is a real. steroid.". >> Yeah. And it's like, "You're not giving. the PCT from the guy at the counter.". [laughter].

>> I felt like a [ __ ] gorilla when I was. taking it. I felt so strong when I was. taking it. I literally gained I think it. was like I was on it for five or six. weeks and I gained 10 solid pounds of. muscle. The amount of people that have. inadvertently gotten gynecomastia from. those days when they were sold some. irresponsible prohib over the counter. without like any knowledge of what they. were taking. >> and then had to just recover naturally. with no support. >> It's a shame. >> Yeah. Well, there was so much of that. stuff like werewolf blast. There was.

dragon's dick. It was like you'd buy. them and they were just pills. They were. just regular pills. >> The stimulants were crazy, too. like u a. veteran was over the counter. >> and like so weird but in Canada. >> for relatively recently even it was. still available over the counter even. though Canada is like super tight on. regulation when it comes to the most. weird stuff like when it comes to. caffeine you can't even have a can with. 200 milligrams it has to be like 180 or.

lower. >> why exactly I don't know but that is a. thing as well as limitations on basic. amino acids it's like tyrrosine if it's. more than like 10 millig or something. >> Amino acids. >> Yeah, >> that's hilarious. Based on what? >> Nonsense. >> Yeah. >> Oh god. [ __ ] nanny state. >> But anyway, so a veteran for whatever. reason was still over- thecounter. available in GNC's up until like a. handful of years ago and it was, you. know, the best seller in GNC's in a lot.

of supplement stores. Not just because. it worked as, you know, like a bronco. dilator, but also because people were. buying it in bulk to make meth. >> [laughter]. >> I believe it. I took Rip Fuel once for. jiu-jitsu right before jiu-jitsu and I. had to stop in the middle of the class. I was like, I got to sit down. I I. pulled over to the side. I'm like, guys, my [ __ ] heart is beating on my chest. And I was explaining, I don't remember. how many I took, but I I took some rep. fuel. I was like, well, it's good to. lift with. I'll try it for jiu-jitsu. It's [ __ ] ter for something that like. really taxes your cardiovascular system.

It was horrendous. >> Resting hard. I did like 120. >> right away. I was tired. Like right. away. Like right away. like we start. rolling. I was like, "God, I'm [ __ ]. exhausted. My heart's beating out of my. chest.". >> But in your brain, you're like, "This. feels good after the first one.". >> I knew I [ __ ] up. I knew I I did it. once and I never did it again. But. >> if you're if you're doing that sport, but for a guy who's going to the gym and. is told like this is the [ __ ] bro. >> If you're just lifting. Yeah. If you're. just going for like max bench, that kind. of [ __ ]. >> Anybody watching will know, you know,

the original Have you heard of Jack 3D? >> Yeah, I took that, too. >> Yeah, she [laughter] was nuts. And. what's crazy too is back then it was. proprietary blends on a lot of the. products and it was still the norm with. no education available, no YouTube to. really tell you what to look for. >> Also no oversight. >> Yeah. Yeah. So these companies would. basically sell you for, you know, 50. bucks a tub of like a powder flavored. tub of just like the stimulant. [laughter] and then it was like like all. the other ingredients for vasoddilation. They're like, "Fuck you. You're just.

getting DMAA, bro. That's. >> Yeah. You were just getting like. straight meth.". >> Yeah. Yeah, >> it was crazy. There was so those were. the wild west days of like GNC's and. like local vitamin shops. >> because you could get stuff that really. worked like worked like something that's. highly illegal. >> and you could buy it with a credit card. >> and the sales tactics were just like so. ruthless but you couldn't really prove. them otherwise. It's like. >> it was always like a a pitbull with like. giant muscles on the cover of it with. like lightning bolts. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's funny, too, because.

some of these companies, it's like now. we're in the mix competing with them on. shelves or whatever, but I remember. being like convinced back when I was a. teenager by them, oh, you need, you. know, gakic, lucick, and creek kick and. this combo that cost 250 bucks. Yeah. >> And it's like, you know, literally uh. pressed tablets of like glutamine or. something at a dose that doesn't even. help. And they're telling me like this. is what J Colory used to [ __ ] prep. for the Olympia. >> Sure. >> Yeah. [laughter]. He's like, "Look at the before and after.

of Lee Priest. He lost like 50 pounds of. pure fat and kept all his muscle from. Celtech.". >> Oh, that's a dirty thing about those. bodybuilders back in the day is they. couldn't admit that they were on gear. >> So, they were all just telling you they. were taking this stuff and then they. would be spokespeople for it and it's. God, it was so deceptive. >> It was so creepy. And you would have to. know someone at the gym. >> who would, you know, go to be like Lee. Haney. Like, no, that's not how he got. that way. Yeah, >> you got to take the real stuff. He's. This is what he's actually taking. And.

so many people didn't think that those. bodybuilders were on like hardcore. steroids. >> Yeah. A lot of Yeah, it's a deception at. a mass scale. For sure. I don't think. >> the whole sport. >> Yeah. >> The whole sport was just a complete like. three cardi game. >> Yeah. It's crazy cuz now it's almost. full circle cuz you know I was back. then, you know, con at least at the time. when I didn't know any better. Oh, you. know, I guess this guy must be natural. because he told me so or whatever. And.

it's like I'm skeptical, but like and. you know, you in hindsight it's. absolutely ridiculous. But now a lot of. bodybuilders are pretty forthcoming. because it's more normal to be. transparent and also not mislead people. and, you know, unethically sell things. and just reality check people on the. what it's going to take to be at that. level and is it the risk you want to, you know, subject yourself to? Cuz back. in the day too, it was like you didn't. know if you had good genetics or not. when it came to certain dosage. responses. So you would like always.

think the next guy's just taking more. than you. And it would result in guys. >> unspokenly thinking this guy must just. be taking 5x the amount of [ __ ] I'm on. So I need to go to like 5 to 10 grams of. total gear per week now. >> And you would just like that's what led. to so many early deaths in bodybuilding. too. So. >> I think there's another thing, another. factor is that the consequences of lying. and getting caught now are huge because. if you lose all credibility and people.

know that you're just a [ __ ] artist. >> Yeah, that's too. >> and then they'll never trust you again. Like you have one chance. >> to tell the truth forever. >> Yeah. >> And the moment you violate that, you're. always a liar. >> Yeah. >> And that's that's a giant [ __ ] issue. with with whether it's actors or. anybody. >> Yeah. You know, like all these guys who. prep for roles and they they're talking. about it now like, "Oh, I took Annavar. I took this." Like Mickey Ror did when. he was talking about that movie The. Wrestler. You know, I remember they were. asking him on whatever talk show he was.

on. He's like, "I [ __ ] took. everything." What are you talking about? I took. >> That guy was a pioneer of interviews for. that kind of stuff. >> Yeah. Well, he's a wild dude. He'll tell. the truth. >> Yeah. But you have one chance to tell. the truth forever. >> Yeah. >> You violate that and you're always going. to be a [ __ ] artist. >> Yeah. Yeah, a guy who's pretty good. about that now is uh Frank Gerillo. >> Yes. >> He was doing some like men's health. thing and I have never seen men's health. talk about steroids forthcoming. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. So they had him on a sit down. interview and they were like, "So, you.

know, what's it take to be at this. recent?". >> Yeah. It's like last year within the. last year. >> Oh, right. Right. >> If not months ago. >> Is this when he was talking about. Anavar? >> Yeah. and he talked about his TRT. protocol and kind of like the realities. of how impactful it actually is and. improving his performance and how it. makes him feel and he was just like. pretty non- sugarcoated about it. >> Well, he's a good example because he was. clean for a long time. >> Yeah. >> Like he had like very low testosterone. because he was just going on willpower. >> He was really just just working out on.

willpower. >> Uh actress star lifts the lid on fitness. recovery and the reality behind the. scenes physiques. Frankl 60 gets real. about Hollywood steroid use. They all do. it. Well, that is a fact. But he was not. on anything for a long time. Like deep. into his 50s and he got his testosterone. take. He's good friends with Brian Ken. >> and uh you know he got his testosterone. taken. It was [ __ ] nothing. He had. like zero. But he was just very. disciplined and working out hard. But he. didn't look like he was on gear. He just.

looked like he was ripped. He was like. shredded. He was like in really good. shape because he trained every [ __ ]. day and he was doing a lot of boxing. So, a lot of like heavy caloric. expenditure, a lot of like long rounds, hitting the bag, hitting mits, doing. sparring, you know, you're going to burn. off so much calories and also you're. going to like your but your metabolism. is going to be like completely jacked. >> Yeah. So then for him to talk about, okay, now I got on this and then I got. on that and this is the improvements, my. sleep, my mood, everything got better.

because, you know, he's talked about is. like his testosterone when he got it. tested was super low. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's uh probably one of the. few examples actually still to this day. though of somebody being like really. transparent. I actually saw The Rock. talking about peptide use recently, which is kind of like a. >> interesting dipping his toes [laughter]. in the water. >> Yeah, exactly. >> He's lost a ton of weight, man. >> Oh, dude. Yeah, he. >> kind of crazy. >> Yeah. And there's a lot of speculation. about if it's like a health thing or. what, but I that's tough to know because.

he just had the role where he gained the. most eyes he ever has, too. >> Right. Right. But that I God, that had. to be terrible for him. >> Oh, for sure. But it's like, would you. have subjected yourself to that if you. knew? I don't know if he would have. known, but you would have think. proactively he would know how close he. is to kind of like an issue. Um, being. >> probably pretty close. 50 years old and. getting up to 300 lb. >> Yeah. I just mean, I think he probably. had more preventative screening before.

that role to know he could even subject. himself to it without dying cuz it's. like a pretty risky endeavor to go. become the biggest you've ever been at. that age. So to then downsize after the. theory is that. >> he was literally about to die. essentially. So that's why he lost so. much weight now. >> And I'm thinking. I think maybe he's just like trying to. take like a health phase and kind of. like come down and wait for a bit and. he'll probably like crank it back up. >> Honestly, I think just and this is pure.

speculation. I haven't talked to him. about this. Um, I think based on what he. tried to do with The Smashing Machine, I. think he's trying to win an Oscar and. trying to be a real actor cuz he was. really good in that movie. Did you see. it? >> Uh, not yet. Planning on it, though. >> It's the best mixed martial arts movie. ever. That's not saying a lot cuz they. all suck. >> Um, but it is the it's the most accurate. in terms of historical matches. like. they they had all the matches like with. ego of tension, all these different. people that he fought that Mark Kerr.

actually fought. >> and it's just a good movie. It's a. really good movie like like Emily Blunt. plays his crazy girlfriend and she's out. of her [ __ ] mind and to the point. where like they're arguing right before. he fights and you're getting anxiety. watching like oh Jesus [ __ ] Christ. >> It's just such a crazy toxic. relationship. It is Emily Blunt, right? I didn't [ __ ] that up, did I? Yeah, >> that is She's [ __ ] great in it, too. It's just a really good movie that I. think would have gotten a lot more.

credit if it wasn't a mixed martial arts. movie. >> because I think, you know, mixed martial. arts movies like, "Oh, it's some [ __ ]. meatthead like rah rah rah, you know, bullshit.". >> Yeah. >> Movie, but it's it's a very good movie. And he is Mark Kerr. >> Oh, he was so accurate. >> So good. >> Yeah. >> He he just And not just the fighting. stuff, man. And the fighting stuff was. great, but the acting stuff. >> like he played that guy and I know Mark. I was like, "Fuck, that's Mark. That's. nuts." It was so good.

>> It was a really good movie. So I what I. think he's doing is the same thing. Bautista is doing. Dave Bautista. >> inversed. >> Well, Dave Bautista lot lost a lot of. weight, too. I Yeah, but I guess I mean. like typically when actors are trying to. get taken more seriously for more. impactful like artistic creative roles, it's almost like the Jack Meatthead guy. downsizes to do something more, you. know, like I don't know, artsy. >> Yeah. >> But like this is getting as. [clears throat] yolked as possible in. order to be the art.

>> Right. Right. Right. >> Whereas Batista is like fully downsized. I think now. >> Yeah. But I I think what I'm saying is. now what he's doing now, I think he's. probably trying to get different kinds. of roles. Roles where like I mean, have. you ever met him? >> No. >> He was like a superhero. He looks like a. superhero. Like we we worked out. together. He came to the gym and I. brought a bunch of comedians. We worked. out and hung out. >> Like Tony Clinchcliffe was in his glory. cuz you know he loves pro wrestling. We're all in the sauna together hanging. out with. >> It was the first time he he probably. still doesn't know that he uses gear. >> What's that? >> He probably still doesn't know that he.

uses gear. >> What do you mean? Hinchcliffe is just. like, >> "Oh, Hinchcliffe doesn't know that." Oh, he knows he uses gear. >> I still remember the episode where he. was dumbfounded that you and Job thought. that he was doing. [laughter]. >> He is locked into being a 12year-old pro. wrestling fan for the rest of his life. It's like a religious thing for him. It's like, you know, Mary was a virgin. You know, [laughter] she she gave birth. to Jesus. Like, I'm not kidding. like he. he [ __ ] loves pro wrestling so much.

>> that he's completely locked in. >> He's a good example though of like a. reasonably in then guy who has friends. in the space too like you and you know. Sha know about this stuff and even he. was like surprised that you guys thought. that at the [laughter] time. It. >> is funny. It is funny when you think. about So imagine just the average person. they probably you know. >> right and also he's [clears throat] you. know been very koi about it and saying. actually not really koi probably. deceptive right. >> just like strategically perfect in his.

tact when it comes to avoiding it. >> Yes that's that's [laughter] the best. way to describe it instead of saying. I've never taken steroids he's kind of. like look over there. [laughter]. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> But everybody who knows knows you know. it's one of those things. It's like you. look at them and you're like there's no. way. There's there's no way. There's. just no way. >> I think I I can't imagine talking about. peptides and putting the feelers out. there would not eventually transition to. like, you know, it's it was recommended. to me by my doctor to be on, you know,

hormone support or whatever. >> 100%. >> Yeah. Like I mean, you're kind of in. that realm talking about it at this. point. You know, >> just come out and say it. I've always. just come out and said it. I don't I. don't see any problem with it. But I. don't have that kind of a reputation. Like the problem of like being the pro. wrestling thing is like you're uh you're. a role model for the youth and you know. you have to especially a guy like that. He's a giant movie star. You don't want. to be telling everybody you're on gear. >> He probably wasn't for like a big chunk.

of his early career though. >> In his early career, right? Yeah. His. early career. I don't think he was. >> I guess the problem is when you're like. when I really became successful is when. I just saw my face off. >> Yeah. That's [laughter] the thing. When. he became a superhero. I mean, the first. time I met him, he had cowboy boots on, so he's even taller. And he just looked. like a [ __ ] brick [ __ ] house. I'm. like, they're not even a real person. This isn't a real person. This is a. superhero. >> Yeah. Yeah. I uh Yeah, it's crazy, dude. But I think he's still jacked. It's just. pro proportionally to relative to what. he was, you know? It's kind of like.

>> anybody who used to be a bodybuilder or. had significant amounts of size, even. me, like people in my videos are like, "Where you're, you know, you've lost. everything." It's like, okay, I'm not. like non-existent anymore. I'm just like. not a bodybuilder anymore. You know what. I mean? >> Yeah. >> So, if with him it's like he's still. yolked. He's like 230, 240 or whatever. >> Yeah. The thing is like super gear heads. will always criticize, oh, you look like. a [ __ ] chick now. [laughter] They. they get crazy. They said that about. Bautista, too. But he's like 240. >> I think you just got to stop wearing.

like the weird tapered Gucci suits. It. just makes him look a little bit more. slender than uh it is not complimentary. to his uh physique. He's still Jack, too. >> Yeah, but it does. It is complimentary. if you didn't know what he used to look. like. >> That's what's crazy. Like, you look at. him, the guy looks [ __ ] great. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Objectively, if you just look at. it with no baseline. >> Like, pull up a a photo of Dave Bautista. now. >> And he's also just getting older. Like, there's got to be some level where you. get acceptance of like, okay, you're.

allowed to downsize so you don't die. >> Yeah. You could die. That's the thing. Like, you're if you're pushing gear at. that age. So, there's Yeah. Like look at. Batista on the right. You wouldn't say. that's a small guy, you know? That's not a small guy. He's a. big [ __ ] dude, but he's just slimmer. now. He looks like like if you saw an em. like Alex Pereira, you don't think Alex. Pereira is small. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> But you know, he's 24 [ __ ] 40 lbs. >> Yeah. If he was bodybuilding for a while. and then decided to convert to, you. know, MMA.

>> That's the thing. But he also got like. that's what he looks like now. Like. that's not a small guy. >> Yeah. And he's like I don't know how. old, but I mean. >> that's 2025. He's got to be 50 56. 56. So that's He's [ __ ] shredded. He. looks [ __ ] gigantic. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I think he actually did a role. recently where he bulked up now that I. think about it. He went to like It was. like fat weight too, which is crazy. >> Yeah. That was that uh [sighs]. God, Glass Onion, was that what it was. called? There was some some movie that.

he did. It was a really good movie. It. was a movie where like some billionaire. had everybody come to his island for. some crazy party and there was a murder. >> What was that called? >> That I think is Glass Onion. I don't. know if. >> that was Glass Onion for something else. >> He was huge for Glass Onion. He got. gigantic. He got big for something else. too. >> But I I think he was like playing I. don't remember what his role was but. playing some former athlete or something. along those lines. >> Yeah, he was dude. >> It's weird when you get really big for a.

movie that sucks. You know what. [laughter] I mean? Or kill yourself for. a movie that sucks. >> Yeah. I hope it did well. Like Jesus. >> Uh Christian Bale did that for The. Machinist. He almost died. >> 75 pounds he gained for Knock at the. Cabin. >> Oh, that's what it is. Knock. What was. that movie? Show me what that looked. like. >> Oh, yeah. >> Screen. >> Knock at the Cabin. What was that movie? >> A horror movie on. I did not watch it. >> Wow. >> A horror movie, huh? Do you watch horror.

movies ever? >> I love a good horror movie. >> He was 315. Jesus. >> So now he's 240. Yeah. It's much much. more sustainable. [snorts] Yeah. But. that's like a weird weight. That's like. what the [ __ ] did he eat to get that. big? And again, he probably did that at. like 52, which is. >> [ __ ] dangerous. Yeah. You probably. got sleep apnnea. You're You're all. [ __ ] up. Yeah. >> Yeah. Chariss Thur did that too. recently. >> She did it for Monster. >> I know. No, again. >> She did it again. >> Yeah. >> Don't do that, Charlies. >> Oh god. That's real.

>> Yeah. >> What is it for? >> I forget the movie. I just saw this. photo the other day. >> Um. >> I think some women they're probably like. a lady like her. They're probably like. Tully. >> I don't know what that is. Might be new, but I just saw. >> That's such a flex. When you're a hot. lady, they get fat and gross. And like. when she did Monster, she shaved her. eyebrows off. >> Did you see the uh Sydney Sweeney like. boxing? >> I didn't see that. >> Not that she got fat and gross, but like. she gained some weight. >> Did she? >> Yeah. I that movie got zero attention.

The Christy Martin movie. Oh, yeah. >> Because it was like three decades past. when anybody gave a [ __ ] Oh. >> You know what I mean? >> I I I at least got the impression I. haven't watched it so I could be way off. base that it was kind of like one of. those artistic kind of like look at my. versatility in roles kind of thing. >> Yeah. How what. in that movie? Did she gain weight? They. might have put her in a fight. >> Well, they said she gained like 30. pounds of muscle or something, which is. like the typical headline nonsense. >> Yeah. Horseshit. >> Yeah. But she definitely like, you know,

took it seriously and gained the weight. that she needed to to look whatever the. role was for sure. >> Yeah. That's such a weird thing. The. >> the acting world you have to change your. like Robert Janeiro was the first guy to. do it for Raging Bull. >> You remember uh Tom Cruz in uh. >> Tropic Thunder? Yeah. But that was a fat. suit. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah, that was I mean because. they they made his forearms fat. They. shaved [clears throat] his head. He was. [ __ ] great in that movie. >> Oh, [ __ ] What a movie. That was the. last bang before Woke.

>> That was the last movie that you could. ever do like that before Woke kicked in. and essentially ruined great comedies. >> because you couldn't go too far. You. can't do that anymore. You just get in. trouble. >> Yeah. It's like back then if you were to. ask, okay, you know, have a hit list of. just like ready to laugh your ass off. movies that are just like loweffort. You. don't have to think too much. You can. just sit down and enjoy. There's a bunch. of bangers from back then, but it's like. nowadays I don't even know what to go. to. >> They don't happen anymore.

>> Like the Fairly Brothers movies, like. Kingpin, [ __ ] great movie. You know, there's so many something about Mary. There's so many of those like. outrageous, hysterical movies that it. was funny. And I asked Robert uh Downey. Jr. I was like I go you couldn't do. blackface in a movie today. He goes oh. you could do it but. >> what would happen afterwards is the big. deal. He got it in like ju like it's. like the scene in a movie where the. elevator door closes right before the. monster gets you.

>> He [laughter] got there just in time and. like it was perfect timing where he. didn't suffer from it. >> No. Yeah. It's uh crazy to see the delta. and just like I don't even know what to. watch when I go on Netflix now to be. honest. >> Well, with comedies, it's really [ __ ]. hard. It's really hard. The only thing. that's really wild and free is standup. comedy. >> Like to to do a comedy movie and just go. full Tropic Thunder is almost impossible. today. >> Yeah. >> But if somebody did it, if somebody just.

self- financed it, oh my god, it would. [ __ ] kill. who would make so much. money and then would open up the. floodgates because people still want. that, you know, they still like it's. it's not that you agree with everything. these people are saying and doing. It's. comedy. Like I don't agree with John. Wick killing everybody. You know what I. mean? Like but he's not really killing. everybody. Like it's a [ __ ] movie. >> And it used to be that you knew that. when you went into these movies before. everybody was like looking for. everything to potentially be offended.

by. >> Yeah. It's just like ruined everything. >> What do you watch now? >> I don't watch comedies anymore. >> But like just in general, do you have. any like kind of just like low barrier? Just I sit down and turn my brain off. that. >> Oh, there's a lot of great stuff. You. know what I watched last night? Jamie, you recommended uh Pluribabus. Is that. what it's called? >> I've only watched the first episode, but. what a weird show, right? >> Holy [ __ ] is it good? Right up your. alley. >> Holy [ __ ] is it good. It's a new Apple. show and I don't want to give away too.

much, but it it it has something to do. with aliens and aliens send a. transmission to Earth and there's this. like this insane impact on society, but. it's like [ __ ] total left field. movie. You don't see it coming. It's. crazy. Or not movie, television show. And again, I'm like Jamie. I've only. seen the first episode, but it's great. >> It's like, holy [ __ ] it's giving you. anxiety. It's so good. >> Did you guys watch uh what was that. other Apple show that was really good?

It was like in an office setting. I. can't believe I'm forgetting that. >> Sevens. >> Yeah. You guys watch that? >> Sevens was great. Especially the first. episode or the first season. First. season was great. After a while, they. get a little weird cuz you're like. you're running this very strange game. that you're doing. These people remember. and don't remember and like and then. you're [ __ ] with the guy's head so he. can remember and they. >> Yeah. What about uh Stranger Things and. It Those are two that my girlfriend has. me watching right now. >> I watched the first episode of Stranger.

Things last night as well or yesterday. as well. That was great. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's uh Dude, it's kind of crazy. how much time is between these seasons. now. It's like you finish I almost like. can't don't want to commit to something. because it's like well if I like it. >> Yeah. >> [ __ ] you to me you know three years next. [laughter] season. >> Game of Thrones it's a great example of. that. Oh, dude. House of Dragon. Like, good luck seeing the next season, bro. >> Well, not only that, like unfortunately. with House of Dragons, it's got to.

follow Game of Thrones, which is like. one of the best series of all time, >> and the characters just aren't as. compelling for whatever reason. And so, I don't know who the [ __ ] anybody is. >> So, the new season starts, I'm like, who's that? >> Yeah. And maybe I just have like monkey. brain, but I'm watching I'm like, I. didn't see a dragon the whole [ __ ]. episode. [laughter]. >> I feel I feel ripped off. >> Yeah. I need a dragon. I need that. dragon to [ __ ] kill somebody. Need to. burn somebody alive. >> Yeah, it's uh there's a lot of great. shows now, but but again it you can it's.

very hard to make a great comedy. You. can make a great like mindless. entertainment like fun show. >> Slow Horses. That's a great show. That's. uh is that an Apple show? I believe it. is. Yeah, that's another Apple show with. Gary Oldman. It's a spy. mi M5 or MI what is it? MI5. What do. they call themselves? >> MI. >> MI5. >> The numbers of the person. I think it's. whatever. I don't know. >> Whatever it is, it's a spy show. Brit. British spy show. That's a really good.

show. >> It is my five. >> Yeah. I mean, there's there's a lot of. great shows to watch. Like there's I. think it's probably the best time ever. for content. If you just want to sit and. be entertained, >> it's the probably the best time ever. because of scream streaming. >> because streaming instead of, you know, one episode you're watching a show and. it takes place over an hour and then the. next episode is totally different, a. totally different subject line, different story. M. >> no it's like the thing you get you get. locked into these characters like. Sopranos I think was like the first one.

to really do that excellently. >> and drag it out over you know many many. seasons where you have this like running. story line. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's uh I'm kind of just. like tuned out of TV at this point. I. just watch what my girlfriend wants to. watch and [laughter] Stranger Things and. it is the thing right now. >> Yeah. I watched the new IT show. >> Yeah. I watched the first episode of. that too. That looks great. It's like. oddly overlapping with the Stranger. Things. I feel like I'm kind of watching. the same show almost kind of. >> like obviously totally different overall.

stories, but like you know, you have. kids and these kind of like. >> and evil things. >> and I don't want to like wreck an. episode, but they mention it. Not. specifically it, but a story about like. an extraterrestrial evil being called it. in a stranger Stranger Things episode. I'm like, this is a weird [ __ ]. reference for these being at the same. time right now. Yeah. Well, they. probably didn't plan that out, right? >> Yeah. I don't I don't know, man. >> What is it called? Welcome to Derry. Is. that what it's called? >> Yeah, >> the new one.

>> But it's good. That's good, too. >> The release date scheduling makes. absolutely no sense for Stranger Things, too. It's like in batches, and the next. batch is coming out on uh Christmas. >> And then the final one is New Year's. >> New Year's. It's like the exact times. you like probably can't bang out all the. episodes or like. >> you're going to have to force your. family to sit there with you. >> Can though. >> What's that? That's what high school. kids can. >> Yeah, high school kids can. >> vacations. >> Well, I think Stranger Things is so big. they could [ __ ] make you only watch. it at 3:00 in the morning and it would.

still get 30 million views. >> But like just such a weird choice. I. don't know. >> Well, it's just weird that it takes so. long to make one of those damn things. that you have to wait 3 years in between. seasons and then you have these kids. that are playing 15 year olds and now. they're [ __ ] 30. >> Yeah. [laughter] It's kind of weird. >> You can tell some of them it's like, "How do we make you look as young as. possible?" Mhm. Yeah. You give them. goofy haircuts and and then there's also. like, spoiler alert, there's some. computerenerated imaging, so they. they're using some sort of an AI program.

to make scenes with the kids when they. were young. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And you kind of can tell, but you kind. of can't tell. It's like really good. >> Yeah. Yeah. Nowadays, it's like you feel. like you could just AI generate the. whole thing, but. >> Well, it's getting close, you know. It's. getting to the point where, you know, there's no excuse for waiting three. years because you could have AI generate. scripts and do it in an hour. >> What about uh F1? You guys following it. at all right now?

>> The show or the actual. >> the actual racing? >> I went to the F1 that was in Austin. It. was amazing. >> this year. >> Yeah. >> Okay. >> It's awesome. for uh I think right now. it's uh the first time in the last 15. years they've had three drivers coming. down to the final race to win the. championship between them and the final. race is this weekend. >> Oh, really? >> Yeah. It's like really. >> Where is it? >> Uh I think it's in uh is it in Abu. Dhabi? I don't know. That might have. been the race that just happened. But it. was nuts, dude. It's uh because right.

now you had McLaren who is like a shoe. in to have their main driver or at least. the guy who is in the lead take it but. they're refusing to favor one over the. other which is a typical strategy for. whoever's in the lead. You'll have the. other one kind of like block people for. them to make sure they win the drivers. championship. >> They're refusing to do that. >> Yeah. They're like making sure they can. have equal opportunities to win, but the. net result might now be none of them win. and a guy from Red Bull takes the thing. >> Oh, that's crazy. Is it because the. drivers aren't willing to do that?

>> Uh, I guess, but also just lack of. enforcement from the pit boss like team. guy who's like supposed to be enforcing. team uh principles and whatnot. >> It is kind of funky that that's how you. win. You have someone it's a team game. I mean like there's a there's team uh. generated points between the two drivers. which can result in the uh like team. championship, but the thing that most. people actually care about is who's the. best driver in the world, right? >> And that will be coming down to one.

person. Even if it's a guy from a team. that won the thing, they're still. competing against each other. And. sometimes it can get pretty reckless. where they're, you know, one is not. willing to compromise and he'll like. blow the whole thing up to make sure. that he has the best opportunity. understandably, but it's also like you. guys are getting paid tens of millions. of dollars. Maybe you should listen to. your [ __ ] guy who's telling you what. to do. This is an ad for Better Help. The holidays come with a lot of. traditions. Gathering with family, cooking those once a year recipes, and.

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10% off at betterhelp.comj. That's betterhp.comjre. Yeah, I get it. But then again, if. you're on another team, you're like, well, this is kind of [ __ ] because. this guy didn't really win the race. He. won the race cuz his friends blocked. everybody. >> Yeah, fair enough. But I mean, like part. of it is kind of like that. That's like. part of the strategy. >> Oh, I get it. I get it. But maybe we. should abandon that strategy cuz if if.

if it is a race. >> Yeah. I guess it's just problematic cuz. it's so bandwidth intensive too to. manage the two drivers that if they're. equally trying to win and only one is. more likely to what may very well happen. on this weekend is they both don't win. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. So, >> I got a tour of the McLaren uh pit last. year and uh they they showed me like all. the different technology that's involved. and they gave me a like a rundown of how.

much engineering is involved in these. things and explained everything. It's. crazy. And they're all just trying to. shave. >> tens of seconds out of turns and then it. all accumulates over the the course of. the race. Yeah, it's like pretty. psychotic when you look at what the. differential is and kind of like what. really separates these guys. It's often. just like minuscule amounts and just. like the littlest mistake, you know, >> what are those guys on? >> That's what I want to know. Do they test.

them? >> Uh, they are tested, but not to the. rigor of like an Olympic. >> Do they test them for gorilla mine? [laughter]. >> I'm sure they're probably using it. >> This is probably a good thing for them. to take. probably for something that's. not banned. Yeah. But um. >> is any of this stuff banned do you think. in Formula 1? >> None of it. This is all like very. straight edge uh like really tried and. true neutropics that work through kind. of like indogenous pathways or things. otherwise backfill neurotransmitters.

similar to like the creatine deficiency. that we talked about. if you backfill it. and you can otherwise, you know, have a. readily available source of. phosphocreatine to offset ATP deficits, >> elyroine, stuff like that. Similar just. in regards to dopamine, for example. >> I'm an hour in and I feel it. It's. legit. Yeah, it's very legit. And again, it's very delicious. So, congratulations. on that. >> Oh, thank you. >> Um, those guys lose a ton of weight, too, during those races. >> Oh, dude. So much water loss. >> Yeah, cuz you're [ __ ] hot as [ __ ] in. those suits. So, you don't burn alive if.

you crash. >> Yeah. some new different strategies like. hyper hydration using things like liquid. glycerol could be impactful to retain. more water. >> Do they wear a diaper? >> I don't know. But uh. >> how long is the race? >> Um it could be it kind of I think it. depends but it's like upwards of an hour. an hour and a half. So. >> yeah, just piss yourself. >> Yeah, just sit in your own pee for an. hour and a half. Yeah, I kind of You. would have to. >> I would imagine with that kind of money. on the line, just [ __ ] let it go, baby. >> Yeah. I don't even know if you'd have to.

though if you're just like persspiring. like a [ __ ] They come out. drenched, >> right? >> Yeah. And they've lost like tons of. weight. Yeah. >> But sometimes in the in the sauna I have. to pee. >> Oh yeah. >> Yeah. Sometimes I'm like 15 minutes into. a sauna session. I'm like, "God damn it, I can't hold it." So I got to open the. door and go out and piss outside, then. climb back in again. >> Have you ever tried glycerol for. hyperhydration? >> No. What is that? >> It's uh just like straight up glycerol. It's like a sugar, but it also has a. hyperhydrating effect that you can hold.

upwards of an extra pound of body water. if you have it as a supplement. So, some. endurance athletes will use it before. events in order to retain more uh water. >> in a way that is not it enhances like. thermmore regulation, your ability to. tolerate stress. You don't lose as you. don't dehydrate as fast. There's a lot. of upsides for its kind of like unique. application. Maybe even avoiding pissing. at nighttime could be. >> really. >> potentially. Yeah. >> Oh, that would help because I always. have to pee.

>> Yeah. One thing that stop that helps me. uh is sauna before bed though. Sauna. before bed. I can generally sleep. through the night. >> Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. So, I'll do like a session about. an hour before I go to sleep and no. water after that. >> Oh, yeah. >> That usually does it. >> Yeah. If you do a water cut off, that's. like pretty regimented. It's probably. the best overall strategy. >> as long as you make sure you hydrate in. the morning. So, I'm pretty diligent. about that. First step in the morning, amino acids with water. I I do that 99%.

of the time, like first thing before. coffee, before anything. >> And do you put electrolytes in it? >> Yeah. Yeah. I take uh Gary Brea stuff. It's called perfect aminos. It's aminos. and electrolytes. I get that in first. thing in the morning, >> just, you know, get it out of the way. >> And I didn't used to for the longest. time. I would just hit the gym right. away and just drink water when I was in. there. >> Damn. But I feel a difference. >> What about I thought step one was cold. plunge. >> Yeah, it depends. Um I haven't cold.

plunged in the last 3 weeks cuz I got. some stem cells. Um and uh I'm still. saunaing. So it seems like there's a lot. of controversy about this in terms of. like what you should and shouldn't do. post stem cell injection. I have a a. very minor Achilles tear. Uh when I was. elk hunting in September, I I twisted my. ankle pretty bad and I didn't think. anything of it. I I stopped limping. after like 15 or 20 minutes and I was. like, I think I'm okay. And uh I've and.

I was wearing uh at the time I was. wearing very light boots. They're like, you know, um just a a real light boot. that you wouldn't do for heavy mountain. trekking. And we did some steep. elevation. And then the real problem is. going down and you're, you know, when. you're going down like several thousand. feet over the course of like an hour. >> Yeah. >> It's [ __ ] brutal. And I I twisted one. of my ankles. And then the next day I.

put on uh a much higher, more rigid boot. with great ankle support and I was fine. for the rest of the trip. But then. >> that's the [ __ ] worst. You just got. to like stare at the ground the entire. time you're walking cuz the littlest off. you just roll your ankle or. >> not only that you go down. Yeah, >> you know, you could die. Um, it's it was. we were in pretty steep country in Utah, but um, interestingly, I didn't notice. anything was wrong until I'd get into a. push-up position, >> which is weird. So, when, you know, I do.

100 push-ups every morning, 100. push-ups, 100 body weightight squats, that's my warm-up before I do anything. And so when I got into like a high. push-up position with like my butt up in. the air, it it's [clears throat] a lot. of stretching on the Achilles. >> and my left Achilles was [ __ ] killing. me. Like sharp pain. I was like, "Fuck, this hurts." And I thought, "Maybe I. maybe it needs to stretch out." So I did. some like jump rope doesn't bother me. Jump rope doesn't bother me. Nothing. else bothers me. But that position. bothered me. And it was bothering me for. like five weeks. And I was like, "All.

right, I got to get this looked at. because it seems like it's it might be. getting worse every time I do that.". Mhm. >> And so, uh, I got a I got it scanned and. there's a minor tear in my Achilles. And. Achilles tears are a [ __ ] nightmare. You know, if you you blow out your. Achilles, that's a nightmare. It's a. long rehabilitation process. >> Blood flow to the area is pretty. >> Especially at 58. >> Yeah. >> It's a [ __ ] it's that's a long. recovery. It's like I'm looking at a. year before I could do everything again. Then you're you lose all your gains, all.

your cardio g everything. You can't move. right. It's you're [ __ ] So, uh, I got. a stem cell shot in there and there's a. lot of debate about when you should be. able to cold plunge after stem cells and. a lot of uh the literature seems to say. 3 months. It doesn't seem to think. sauna. there's there's more indication. that sauna is probably therapeutically. beneficial for uh for the stem cells.

because the idea is that these stem. cells are still in the area trying to. heal the tissue. >> When you coal plunge, you kill them, but. when you're doing sauna, you're. increasing blood flow and it might help. them. So, what they said is like. >> I wouldn't do anything for a couple. weeks, >> nothing. And then after that, just sauna. for a while. Yeah. >> So I haven't done a cold plunge in over. a month. >> Seems excessive. Not that I'm. >> scared. I'm scared to go back in. Yeah.

>> Because I was so used to it. [laughter]. >> Oh, you got to get over the hurdle. again. >> I'm so scared. Every time I do it, I. almost don't do it. >> Every [ __ ] time I do it, I almost. don't do it. >> Yeah. >> Um, so like for the past month, it's. just been get up and just work out and. then sauna afterwards. >> What's the uh rehab stack? Is it any. different than what you were already. doing or is it kind of like. >> BBC57 TB500? That's it. It's definitely improved. >> BPC local in the. >> Yes. >> Achilles. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right there. >> Or you just pinch the subq area and kind.

of Okay. >> I shove it right in there. Uh I think. local is the way to go. I've done it. subcutaneously like in the side and love. handles. >> It doesn't have the same effect. >> Yeah. If you can get it to the area, it's like why not, you know? >> Yeah. I think I think BPC57 locally is. the way to go. Uh but it's definitely. getting a lot better. It doesn't doesn't. hurt at all anymore. Yeah. I'm just I'm. just making sure it fully heals up. >> Yeah. Interesting note on kind of like. the hormone support stuff. Uh this past.

month, uh the FDA actually removed the. most of the blackbox warnings off of. women's HRT products. >> Yes. >> Pretty amazing. >> Yeah. really amazing because so many. women were lied to for so long. They. were told that there's all these. negative effects of supplementing your. hormones, but my god, how many [ __ ]. people just had lost quality of life for. [ __ ] nothing, for no science at all. It's just complete horseshit. >> But there's so much bad [ __ ] science. out there, man. Like it's it's a real.

problem. It's hot as [ __ ] in here. >> There's so much bad science out there, man. It almost gets to a point where you. almost have to look at things through. the lens of does this sound like. nonsense? >> Yeah. Well, and then where do you go? Like who do you trust? >> You know, unless you you're wellversed. in who the respectable online people. are. >> Yeah. Like you might see us, you know, however many studies that say fill in. the blank exotic compound is like. totally ineffective and it's like.

>> who was it tested on for how long? What. was the dosage? you know, like it might. be a completely useless interpretation. for your specific nuance scenario. And. if you hear hordes of anecdotes from. everyone in your circle you trust who. actually knows what they're talking. about, has been in the trenches, knows. their body well, like you can't you. can't really ignore that. >> What what was the narrative about female. hormones and why did they why did they. do that for so long? Do you know? So I. think it was in the '9s the women's. health initiative were assessing the.

viability and safety profile of uh. hormone replacement therapy and I might. butcher this a little bit but in general. the you know overall context is. relatively accurate I'm sure and it was. like of a thousand women or something. that they tested HRT say HRT I put in. air quotes cuz like. >> estrogen. >> not even like human bio identical. estrogen it was like ecoin Horse piss. derived estrogens. >> Horse piss? >> Yeah. >> For real? >> Yeah. So, it was like literally the most.

synthetic, you know, animal derived. shitty estrogen that is not. bioididentical at all and uh also a. synthetic progesterine that is not bio. identical to progesterone. It's just. like a proesterine analog essentially. that fulfills activity at the receptor. but is olderwise like you know the. equivalent of putting you on like a. micro dose of nandrallone or a micro. dose of you know fill in the blank uh. progesterine uh derived compound um or.

19 derived compound that facilitates. progesteric activity but just is not. progesterone. So, it's like to try and. say, you know, this horse piss derived. estrogen formula and the synthetic. progesterine we apply to these women is. the equivalent of you having been on. what you would otherwise produce as a. young healthy vibrant woman from a bio. identical estradile and progesterone. perspective. Simply not accurate. But. that's like essentially the comparison. that they made and you know presented it. as such. And the result was a relative.

risk increase of breast cancer. incidents, I believe, to the tune of. like one of a thousand women. And the. absolute number was like three of a. thousand in the placebo arm had uh. breast cancer incidents and then I think. four out of a thousand had breast. cancer. So then the media ran with a 26%. increase in risk. >> Oh, and so everybody got panicky. >> Yeah. And like I might be. misinterpreting one or two variables, but like high level that's essentially.

what it was. And it caused mass hysteria. and panic and basically dictated the. facilitation of blackbox warnings being. put on uh hormone therapy. So the most. aggressive FDA warning that shows. basically any clinician that's looking. at it or anybody who's going to like. take the risk of using it. This is the. most dangerous drug you could use with. the highest risk of like lethal side. effect potential. M. >> and then on top of that it just like. wasn't representative of what is actual. replacement therapy with what is the.

hormone you would be producing. naturally. So for years you know we went. thinking oh it's going to cause uh. clotting issues it's going to cause. cancer it's going to do this it's going. to do that and only in the most nuance. edge case scenarios is it justified. because you know that person just. absolutely has a quality of life. deterioration is so significant that. it's worth it to take the risk to use. orone replacement therapy. And it's like. now similar to some of the like common. sense interpretation of things, it's. like this doesn't make sense. Like look.

at all this literature showing the. cardioprotective effects, showing the. neuroprotective effect, showing the bone. support and integrity. Look at what you. lose if you don't take these hormones. Like you essentially giving yourself. >> a worse quality of life inevitably and. deterior deteriorating your health um. unquestionably. Like with men there is. some semblance of residual activity you. can maintain and some men maintain. vibrant you know reasonable testosterone. production till old age but with women. it's kind of like. >> like right when the lights shut off like.

>> drops off a cliff. >> Yeah. >> It's interesting how the initial. narratives get stuck in the public. zeitgeist forever. Like the initial. narrative for testosterone replacement. was you can get testicular cancer, prostate cancer. And it was just so many. people like I don't want to mess around. with testosterone replacement because I. could get cancer. And then Brigham. Beller explained that study. >> Yeah. >> And explained the the real results of. that study and it's like it didn't show. that anybody got prostate prostate.

cancer from it. It's just not true. >> Yeah. And it's like even the mechanism. by which they argue it would cause it. doesn't even make mechanistic sense cuz. it's like the only way you're going to. increase the prostate growth is via. bringing and it's like of course when. you use hormones that are androgens like. you're going to grow tissues that. they're exposed to but it doesn't mean. it's a bad thing necessarily. And if. you're a hypoganatal male who has low. tea and it goes up to just the threshold. of barely acceptable, that's where the.

growth essentially stops. And if you go. beyond that into like medium normal, high normal, even super physiologic. territory, your prostate doesn't. linearly grow in exposure. Otherwise, bodybuilders would have massive. prostates like busting out of their. bodies. >> Giant dicks, too. [laughter] Imagine. that. >> We wish didn't happen. >> I wonder Well, how come it grows in. large clitorises in women? because the. physiology is essentially. interchangeable in that you could have. gone in any direction dependent on your.

exposure to these hormones. So, >> right. >> Yeah. So, if if a man exposes himself to. significant amounts of estrogen. >> and has no has hormone deprivation, there are some irreversible anatomical. changes because they've already like. matured that will not go away. But like. with women, it's like the inverse. And. you could otherwise get closer to that. like extreme scenario where you're once. your voice box gets to a certain like. anatomical. uh development, you can't necessarily go. back to your high-pitched, you know?

>> Yeah. That's the problem with. dransitioners. They keep that voice. forever. And it's the real problem is it. never even becomes a man voice. It just. becomes weird. [laughter]. >> You know what I mean? >> Yeah. Yeah. trans men never develop a. voice like you know Isaac Hayes. >> Yeah, that's uh one of the one of the. tough things with HRT too is like as. much as I think it's so amazing that. it's being you know educated about and. there's widespread attention being.

brought to the importance of it. There's. also the cowboy docs who almost go to. the hyper extreme of optimization and. are putting women on aggressive dosages. of testosterone saying you've been lied. to. you know, this is actually what you. need to feel good. And for a woman who's. been, you know, asexual for years and. feels, you know, has no energy and they. are told this guy is, you know, the. cutting edge doc who everyone sees, they. will probably trust his guidance. And as. early as before I started Mer Health, which is my company, my mom was getting.

hormone therapy guidance from a doc who. was relatively well respected. And the. dose he put her on of testosterone was. so aggressive that her voice was. changing within weeks. >> Wow. >> And I had to like cut the cord on it. I. was like, "What the hell is this?" And. her testosterone levels were like in the. like 300s plus. >> Wa. >> Yeah. So like you're essentially low low. normal healthy male territory. Not like. actually, but like on a clinical. reference range. And absolutely. potential for masculization.

>> Yeah. And also horny as [ __ ]. >> Potentially. Yeah. But it's like you. didn't need to go there probably to get. to horny as [ __ ]. >> My wife has a friend who got on it and. uh she's a British lady and she had a. very funny. She goes, "His stuff makes. me feel like a bloke." [laughter]. >> She goes, "I'm horny like a bloke.". >> Yeah. Yeah. And it testosterone can be. helpful in women for sure. And it's an. overlooked uh hormone that is absolutely. important in women just the same as it. is in men. It's just like you got to.

kind of know what you're getting. yourself into too when it comes to like. what is reasonable for a doctor to tell. you you need and at what like. concentrations you should expect, you. know, blood level targets to be. Cuz if. you just go in blind, you might end up. with the most exotic, you know, like. Beverly Hills doc who thinks you should. be on like the craziest cocktail ever. cuz he knows you're going to feel it. >> and respond really, really well. immediately. but then also might just. like [ __ ] you up permanently.

>> Well, this is also the problem with. transitioners when when you're becoming. a trans man, right? Um the initial. impact is you uh alleviation of anxiety. and euphoria. You start feeling great. >> because that's what testosterone does. for you. That doesn't mean you're. supposed to have that. Like your your. body's going, "What the [ __ ] is this?". And now you're, you know, essentially. you're you're changing the whole. cocktail of your body and you're, you. know,

>> Yeah. >> And you're going to give permanent. changes that if you make a decision when. you're 14, 15 years old, they put you in. this stuff. Those dransitioners are some. of the saddest stories, man. >> Because they've become sterile. They'll. never have children and, you know, and. they're lose their tits because they go. to a doctor that thinks you should have. your memorary glands chopped off when. you're 15. It's [ __ ] so we're in the. weirdest of times with all this stuff. >> because it's like what gets accepted and. not accepted and what you know what. become again like we were talking about.

the zeitgeist when when a thought gets. out there and then it's very difficult. to move away from that it's like oh. you're affirming your true self like. really with with synthetic hormones that. didn't exist in your body before. That's. that's your true self. >> Yeah. >> Are you [ __ ] sure? It sounds like. this might be a social contagion that is. like sweeping through the land. And. >> one of the things that's really. interesting is the um the drop off of. kids identifying as trans. >> is it coincides directly with Elon.

buying Twitter. >> Oh wow. >> Yeah. Like immediately when you because. you used to not be able to talk about. it. You still like literally if you say. if you dead name someone from Twitter. meaning like if you changed your name to. Dominique and I called you Derek I could. get banned from Twitter for life for. forever. That's great. >> Just by using your old name. Like if I. called Bruce Caitlyn Jenner Bruce I. would get banned from Twitter for life. >> Damn. >> Cuz it's nuts. >> Like but it's like this very bizarre.

social contagion. this weird mind virus. that went through the whole country. >> and everybody just signed up for it like. and no one wanted to be a bigot. So like. oh I don't want to be a bigot. >> Yeah. I think as much as I think like. access to drugs is super like you should. have the full liberty to do whatever you. want you that's where the importance of. educating yourself is so critical. because you really don't know what. you're subjecting yourself to. If you. have an immature brain too, you have not. even had full like frontal lobe.

development to try and think you're. going to make a sound decision with how. you're going to impact your lifelong uh. physiology. It's like probably. >> you can't even have a tattoo. It's not. even legal to get a tattoo and you get. your penis removed. It's [ __ ] crazy. It's [ __ ] crazy. Oh, they know. Some. some people know as early as three. I've. had conversations with people on this. podcast. I have friends that have trans. kids and they knew right away. Like, are. you sure they didn't have a [ __ ]. insane mother and a gay child? Because. that might be what was going on. >> Yeah. >> And now this gay child will never have.

an orgasm again because you've convinced. them they're not a gay child, that. they're a woman, and which is in fact. completely homophobic. >> Yeah. Yeah. Interesting. extreme of the. scenario. But maybe on the opposite is. guys who are in their in adolescence who. are so hyper educated that they use the. knowledge to biohack their development. into becoming as maximally tall and like. infrastructurally sound as adults as. possible. >> Right. Right. And that's a really. interesting predicament because it's. like any like reasonably ethical doctor.

will be like there's no [ __ ] way I'm. touching that like case of any. overseeing anybody's care who was doing. that kind of thing. I was watching a. podcast about this where this guy was. talking about his son and he's short and. his son is short and his son's friends. were also short and their parents got. the kid on growth. >> when they were and they grew like a lot. bigger than the parents. >> which is Alexander Carellin. >> Do you know Carellin's story? >> Uh. >> they called him the experiment. He's the.

freakiest wrestler that has ever. existed. >> I know who it is but I didn't know that. specifically was in adolescence that he. was subjected to. Oh, this is. speculation on my part. Have you seen my. photo that I have out in the gym? >> It's the photo that I put up to remind. myself of what a [ __ ] I really am. >> Is that when he's like about to [ __ ]. hoist that? That picture. That one. >> Yeah, it's a famous one. >> That guy was 300 [ __ ] lb and moved. like a cat. [laughter]. Like unbelievably mobile and flexible. and had like an insane record.

>> I think it was like 280 and1 or 280 and. two. like [ __ ] insane. Like one of. the most dominant wrestlers of all time. But there's um. >> they call him in Russia they would call. him the experiment. Yeah. >> And you see his parents, his parents. like 5'5, 5'7, like small people. And. he's this [ __ ] behemoth of a person. And of course, the Soviet doping program. is legendary. The movie Icorus. highlights that, you know, but everybody. knew about that. The Eastern Block.

weightlifters, the females, they they. set records that were never broken. again. These women completely became. men. Yeah. You know, like there's. there's a lot of evidence that they were. doing that to their athletes. The fact. that they wouldn't do it to their most. dominant wrestler in the history of the. [ __ ] sport and the guy who was the. absolute biggest freak in the history of. wrestling. Like there was nobody like. that guy. >> Yeah, we should talk about some of those. Russian drugs. I heard uh you bring up. Prime Tazzine with somebody the other. day. But before that, have you ever.

heard of the Lionyl Messi story? >> No. >> Okay. So, did you know that he was. destined to be a dwarf if he didn't get. on huge amounts of growth hormone? >> Really? >> Yeah. So, he got supplied with. pharmaceutical growth hormone by the. team that was trying to get him to. basically be with them. >> Well, he's a small guy as it is, right? >> Yeah. So, he grew to what is otherwise. an acceptable adult height, but he. otherwise was destined to be literally a. dwarf, whatever the socially acceptable. term is. >> Wow.

>> Yeah. So they either paid for his. pharmaceutical growth hormone and admin. like got it for him, paid for it, made. sure he was taking it or he didn't. become the greatest, some argue, you. know, the football player of all time. >> Well, it's also you have to take into. consideration like how much of effect. did that have on his performance? >> I mean, that guy can do things that no. one else can do. >> Well, he definitely wouldn't have grown. to the height he is. And. >> it's not just the height. It's the the. explosive movement, his ability to. change direction like better than.

anybody. >> The infrastructure is obviously. supporting of it. I don't necessarily. know. Yeah. It would be impossible to. like really quantify that. There's no. like, you know, uh AB test of it. >> Right. Right. There's no placebo control. trial, >> but you know, if he didn't do it, he. would not be even playing. >> Wow. I did not know that. >> Yeah. That's probably one of the most. overlooked but wild uh cases of a. professional athlete who like needed to. go like full board to the tits.

>> when it comes to. >> How old was he when they did that to. him? >> Like a young teen if not a child. >> seeing 11 years old. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Yeah. It was like you either take this. at the dose that is going to like push. you to, you know, maximal IGF-1 output. territory and we get you to as high of. maturation as possible or you're not. going to be a professional player. >> How tall is Messi now? >> 5'7. >> Wow. >> Yeah, >> that's crazy. Well, you know, I told you. the Yoel Romero story, right?

>> Probably. >> Yoel Romero is the biggest athletic. freak I've ever seen in my life. And. I've seen a lot of athletic freaks like. >> Yoel Romero when he I believe it was in. Australia. >> He was uh fighting um and after the. fight goes to a doctor to get checked. up. He had a fractured orbital. He had. you know rough fight. Um the doctor. examines him and then says to the UFC, "Where did you get this guy?". >> Oh yeah. Did. >> I tell you this? >> Yeah. >> And they go, "Hey, he's great, right?".

He goes, "No, no, no. His tendons in his. eyes are three times the size of a. normal person. Right. >> They said his orbital bone is already. healing. >> Crazy. >> Like what did they do to him? Cuz he was. on the Cuban Olympic program. Yeah. You. know, and the way he talks about it, like the program was like so regimented. In fact, >> they had tiers of athletes and the um. the highest tier ate three times a day. >> The tier below that ate two times a day. So it motivated you literally to get.

more food. Wow. >> To compete and you're competing with. these guys that their entire life is. wrestling. That is everything. And it. literally can feed their family. It's a. m matter of whether or not their family. gets food, whether it changes your. social status. And he goes, "And because. OF THAT, YOU BECOME A MACHINE.". >> That's how he's saying it. I could do. [laughter] I could do a good yo. >> You become a machine. And he's the biggest freak of all time. In fact, everybody who fights him says.

hitting him hurts. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. What um Robert Whitaker said is. like hitting metal. He goes, "Dude,". he's like, "You hit the guy, he doesn't. feel like a normal person." He goes, "It's like you're hitting metal.". >> He's still competing, but in uh was it. one. >> dirty boxing? His dirty boxing was his. latest one. Um he's doing he's almost. 50. He's jacked as [ __ ] now. He's a. heavyweight, full six-pack, almost 50. years old, [ __ ] gigantic. I mean, now. he's got to be geared up. I mean, I.

would imagine because he's in these like. fringe leagues that, you know, >> you'd think. >> their drug test is a [ __ ] multiple. choice. [laughter]. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> What do you want? I'm on Jesus. >> He had that famous speech. He was. saying, "Don't forget about Jesus.". >> He goes, "Don't forget Jesus.". >> And everybody thought he was saying, "No. gay. Jesus is not gay. >> Oh my god. >> And so they thought he was homophobic. And he's like, "No, no, no, no, no, no. for gay Jesus." But he was saying,

"Don't forget Jesus." Like, "Jesus is. important." And everybody's like, "Oh my. god, Yoel Romero used his platform to. say homophobic things after a fight.". Like, >> no, he can't speak English very well. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, and he's religious. >> I feel like Yeah. that guy, he uh I. always felt like if he just kind of like. threw himself into the fire more, he. could just like crush it. >> The problem is cardio. When you're. carrying around that much weight, >> you know, first of all, wrestling, his. wrestling was above and beyond anybody.

else, >> but he was just like slug when he didn't. need to. >> Well, they get in love with knocking. people out, first of all, and that guy's. explosive capacity was. >> he knocked out Chris Weidman, one of the. [ __ ] scariest flying knees I've ever. seen in my life. It was a great fight up. until the moment he put Chris Weidman. into the shadow realm, but he hit him. with this flying knee just explos you. So what he's tired or whatever, >> then he jumps on you and his ability to. close the distance is so it's like you. think about wrestlers like um did you.

see Bo Nichols last knockout? >> Um. >> he knocked out Riea with a head kick. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> It was spectacular. But what Bo Nick, Bo. Nichols is an elite wrestler, like a. topshelf blue chip wrestler. And one of. the things that wrestlers have is this. ability to close distance because. they're, you know, they're on the. outside and they can just shoot doubles. So that explosion naturally lends itself. to closing the distance and striking. because, you know, it's the same kind of. thing if you develop good striking. And.

Hadalfo Vieira, who's like [ __ ] super. jacked, but he's a a ghee jiu-jitsu guy. Ghee jiu-jitsu is all about strength and. control technique as well, but it's a a. tight game. It's not a game of like. jumping, moving across distance quick. It's a game of they're gripping each. other and then, you know, it's a lot. about strength and it's a lot about. technique, but it's not about closing. distance. So, Hadalfono Vier is like a. plotting like really super jack guy and. Bo Nichols just lied on his feet, moving.

on the outside and just closing. distance, cracking him, getting out and. and he hits him with this [ __ ] bomb. head kick and puts him to sleep. >> But it's that that ability to close the. distance. Nobody did that better than. Yoel. Yoel was the best at that because. he's just a [ __ ] unbelievable. athlete. And with Izzy, he fought Ezreal. out of Izzy said, "Dude, I had to stay. on the outside with that guy. I could. not just go after him because the. counters would come so fast. He he yo.

caught him with a big left hand early in. the fight and he was like, "Oh, well, [ __ ] this." He's like, "We're going to. make this a boring fight. I'm just going. to win a decision on this motherfucker.". >> Because it's just the consequences of. being too close to him where he can do. that. Yeah, >> it's just you have to fight a technical. fight with that guy. Stay on the. outside. Pick at him. Move a lot. Don't. set Don't set your feet ever. Never be. in a place where he can just like. because he can just launch on you and.

blast you. >> Yeah. The on the flip side of that, the. leaping uh in the middleweight of. Chamay, ruthless to watch. That was like. the most painful fight I've seen. recently. >> Oh yeah, the trick is duplic fight. Yeah. Well, that's just levels and. levels above everyone else. >> Just like closing distance even when you. know it's about to come. >> Yeah. >> Once he gets his hands on you, you're. [ __ ] His his that there's something. about that that kind of wrestle. wrestling from the Chetchins and the.

Dagistanis and me maybe even him more. than any of the other ones. >> is it's just so aggressive and he chains. things together so well. And if you're. not training with guys like that, like. Sha told me that he went to see Chamay. when Chamayv was in training camp for. Drakus Tupacy and he called me up. He. goes, "Dude, listen to me." He go like, "Shab was a top 10 UFC heavyweight. He's. been around forever, you know, was in he. was in camp with George St. Pierre when. George St. Pierre was in his prime. Nate. Markwart when Nate Markwart was prime.".

He's like, "Dude, I've never seen. nothing like this." He goes, "They were. bringing in worldclass wrestlers and. he's [ __ ] ragdolling them." He goes, "He's a freak." He goes, "He's going to. [ __ ] Dus up." I go, "Really?" He goes, "Dude, if he gets a hold of that guy, he's fucked." Turned out to be 100%. accurate. >> Yeah. It was like the most obscene. example I've seen of. >> his wrestling it's obscene. That's a. great way to put it. He's his wrestling. is obscene. And if you can't compete, like this one thing that I said about.

Drius after that fight was like that gap. is so wide that's like jumping across. the Grand Canyon. You're not going to. make it. Like you would have to start. you'd have to get a time machine, >> go back to the time when you're six and. start wrestling in Dagistan. Like you. you've you've got to like have those. kind of skills to compete with that guy. >> Yeah. Only an elite wrestler who can. also strike is gonna be able to [ __ ]. with that guy. >> Unless he gets silly and decides to. strike with someone and they KO him. Other than that, I I just can't see.

anybody [ __ ] with that guy. >> Yeah. I mean, it's uh I guess needs. somebody stylistically to match up to. really. >> Bo Nickel. >> Yeah. >> But but Bo has to grow as a fighter, you. know? He has to he has to grow as a. fighter and he's doing that. I mean, he's a. >> unbelievably dedicated and disciplined. guy. And if anybody can do it, he can do. it because he's got that elite wrestling. that like if they had a wrestling match, it would be fantastic. >> But [clears throat] Chamay is a much.

better striker right now. At least has. been up until this last fight with. Vieira, which was a huge knockout. But. Vieier was kind of a standing target for. for Bo. >> What did you think of the uh Usman. positive test result? >> Kind of interesting. >> Oh, the bigger Usman. His older brother. >> Yeah, duh. >> That's a duh. He's [ __ ]. >> I'm uh Yeah, I mean. >> unfortunate, you know, because the. heavyweight division is so devoid of. talent. >> Yeah. >> Gable Stevenson is the [ __ ] guy.

That's the guy. That's the guy. He's not. even in the UFC yet. I mean, that. Olympic gold medalist, [ __ ] freak. athlete, 250 lbs, moves like a cat. That's the guy that he's every I I sent. a text message to Dana White. I sent him. a video of Gable's last fight. I said, "Everyone's [ __ ] Everyone's [ __ ]. when this guy comes out. He KOed this. guy with a left hand. He KOed this guy. with a left hand and then took him down. as he was knocked out. Watch this. knockout because it's so [ __ ] crazy. the speed that this guy has. First of.

all, really good striking already and. he's only been striking for like a. [ __ ] year. But watch when he KOs this. guy, he hits him with a punch. Boom. And. then takes him down. >> Jesus, >> dude. Everyone's [ __ ] And then just I. mean that's just nuts, man. That kind of. speed is nuts for a heavyweight. >> Yeah. >> Look at that left hook. Boom. Takes him. down. Smash. >> And then. >> that's like a video game combo. >> Exactly. And he can do back flips and. [ __ ] When he fought in dirty boxing, he.

knocks the guy out and then he leaps. over the top rope and lands on on the. apron. Just leaps over the top rope with. like effortless. Yeah. >> Freak. Just a real freak. And again, just like watch this KO when he KOs this. guy. Well, first of all, this guy has no. business being in there with him. But. this is just boxing. This is uh what. they call dirty boxing. Boom. So he. could ground and pound guys. >> So is this like the modernday DC sort. of? >> Oh, he's he's maybe even better and.

bigger. A lot bigger. You see how he. jumped over that rope? Watch that again. >> Super athletic but like doesn't kind of. unassuming. >> Exactly. Well, I mean, not really. unassuming. He's a [ __ ] house man. It. just doesn't higher body fat. >> But look how he jumped over that rope. >> Oh yeah. When you see that, of course. it's. >> Watch. Show that again. >> Yeah, that was insane. >> Well, look. Look how the effortless. Look at just effortless. >> Leaps over that [ __ ] That's like 5. ft. He just jumps over it like it's. nothing. >> And after fighting too. >> After fighting and but literally with no.

effort. Just hops over it like it didn't. exist. Lands perfectly. >> He's a freak, man. and and and he's. training with Jon Jones and you know. he's training with like some of the best. fighters and he's training and he's. trying to fight every month. He's trying. to get as much experience as he can. before he gets into the UFC and he's. coming and everybody's in trouble. >> How old is he? >> 25. >> Oh jeez. >> They're all [ __ ]. >> Yeah. >> Everyone's [ __ ]. >> I mean everyone is [ __ ] because. there's no other than John, there's no.

one that can wrestle with that guy in. that sport. And the thing about a guy. who could wrestle like that is if he can. strike like that, the problem with. wrestling is you're always worried about. the takedown. So that opens you up to. strikes because you're always like every. faint you're thinking he's going to. shoot for your legs, but then boom, he. catches you with a left hook. And the. speed that guy has, it's like a lethal. combination of athleticism, speed, power, size, and an insane wrestling. pedigree. I mean, Olympic gold medalist, as good as it gets with wrestling. I.

think the last time I heard you talk. about a guy like this, at least when I. was on, was uh Pereira before he came. in. >> Similar. >> Yeah. >> Similar kind of thing where he's a. specialist, >> you know, but. >> you're like, "Watch out for this [ __ ]. guy.". >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Oh, yeah. I remember DC was like, "Come. on, man." I'm like, "Dude, I'm telling. you, this guy is different.". >> Cuz I had been a huge fan of Pereira. when he was fighting in glory and you. know, you'd watch him hit guys and. they'd go flying across the ring. >> like, "What the [ __ ] is that guy made. out of?" And when you like when I.

interview him, like I put my hand on. him, it's like this table, dude. He's. like made out of oak. Like he's [ __ ]. dense. And there's something about the. way he throws punches. Have you ever. seen him punch that that machine? You. know that machine that like generates. like it shows. >> effortless, but it's like super high. power. >> He hit it with his right hand because. his left hand had been bothering him and. he got 190. >> the pre like Francis Enanu got a 129. He. got a 190 with a right hand. >> Crazy.

>> It's [ __ ] insane, dude. I got like. 150 with a kick. >> This guy got 190 with a punch. >> Jesus. >> 190 is insane. And it's his right hand. I bet his left hand is probably 200. It's [ __ ] See if you can find that. video. >> Got deleted from the way I was. >> It got deleted. >> The way it was being [laughter]. advertised. When you Google it, it broke. the internet there. >> Like, hide it somewhere else. Bro, he. hit so hard that Mark Goddard after he. fought Khalil Roundtree after he just. beat Khalil Roundtree across the octagon.

beat Mark Goddard when they were. announcing the KO and you know raising. his hand. Mark comes up to me at the end. of the fight he goes. >> the sound the sound it makes when that. guy hits people is ungodly. [laughter]. He goes I've been doing this for 20. years mate. He goes it's ungod. Watch. this. Oh my gosh, [laughter]. >> bro.

Bro, bro. >> Yellow. >> Play that again. Play that. Just look at. the force that this guy generates. There's something about there's it's the. leverage because of his tech. That's us. watching it. >> 170. >> Well, that's nuts. Yeah, >> that's nuts. He's got power is a weird. thing, man. You're born with it. >> Like nothing else. Like there's a lot of.

skills that you can acquire, but there's. a threshold to how hard you're going to. be able to hit. And I think it's based. on body mechanics. It's based on the the. frame. It's based on the size of your. hand. He has massive hands. >> It's based on there's just a lot of. factors. Explosive fast twitch muscle. fiber. Some people don't have a lot of. it. Some people are more of an endurance. fighter and they don't hit as hard, but. they could just get you with. combinations and they put you away. eventually. >> But Pereira is different, man. >> It's like in like he's like David David.

Gogggins always likes to say, he's. uncommon amongst uncommon men. >> Yeah. >> It's interesting that his uh his chin. seems to be holding up really well. considering Yeah. And he, you know, has. been knocked out before. He's getting. older and like he seems fine. Well, it's. because he was not cutting weight. anymore. There's nothing that [ __ ] your. chin up more than dehydration. When he. was losing weight, he was getting down. to 185 pounds and he was weighing in the. day of the fight at 226.

>> 226 weighing in at 185, you cut weight. and then rehydrating up to 226 a day. later. >> Damn. >> Like, you don't rehydrate your brain, man. And so, you can't take shots. You. can't take shots as well. And it's a. it's a common thread amongst fighters. like Jack Hermanson. >> He got knocked out by Gregory Rodriguez. >> at 185. And Gregory Rodriguez is another. one. He's a freak. Just a giant 185. Like it doesn't even make sense. You're. standing next to him. I weigh 200 lb. And I stand next to him. I'm a little.

short me. And I'm like, how how the [ __ ]. are you 15 lbs lighter than me? That's. not even It's not This is science. Like. it doesn't even make sense. >> And so Jack went down to 170 and just. got KO'ed the other day. Bad. >> Yeah. >> Just bad. >> Yeah. >> Because I think that you're way more. vulnerable. >> Like Frankie Edgar is a perfect example. cuz Frankie when he was in his prime at. 155 didn't cut any weight. He was one of. the rare guys that was a 155 lb champion.

that was actually 155 pounds when he. fought. And just amazing durability. because of that because he didn't he. didn't dehydrate himself. So he he was. like optimal. And there's like this. point of diminishing returns where you. know you're physically bigger, you're. stronger, but you can't take shots and. you also fatigue quicker because your. body essentially almost died 24 hours. ago. >> Yeah. >> I mean, these guys get to death's door. to make weight. Their whole face is. sucked in, their eyeballs are pulled.

back in their head. >> Yeah. >> It's kind of crazy. >> Yeah. I think uh more attention is going. to come to how to actually ensure your. brain stays safe in the sport for. longevity purposes as people kind of. realize how impactful like the weight. cutting especially can be but also like. if you end up getting knocked out. >> you might not come back the same and. some of the strategies that should be. employed after those fights as well to. actually restore as quickly as possible. and avoid permanent degradation. >> Well, it's like there's there's two.

schools of thought. There's one school. of thought that I'm in which we need to. expand the weight classes so we have. more weight classes and we need to. somehow or another institute some sort. of hydration policy where you cannot. dehydrate yourself and weigh in and. pretend that you weigh 170 when really. you weigh 210 because there's there's a. lot of guys doing that. And the other. school of thought is they should be able. to hydrate with IVs. >> Yeah. >> Because they used to be able to hydrate. with IVs. the bloodb brain barrier like.

and the hydration of the brain. It takes. much longer to rehydrate your brain than. it does to rehydrate your muscle tissue. >> Yeah. >> And so these guys are going in there, their muscles are full, but their brain. is dehydrated and they're vulnerable to. getting knocked out. And I think that's. what happened with Pereira. Uh. particularly with the Izzy fight, but. Izzy caught him with a picture perfect. right hand just right on the chin and. then followed it up with a left hook. But it was just he didn't have the. durability at 185 that he has at 205. At. 205 he's been dropped like Khalil.

dropped him. Guys have dropped him and. you know Ankolia have rocked him but he. can take it. He could take it at 205. >> Yeah. >> And now he's talking about going all the. way up to heavyweight. >> which is kind of crazy. >> Yeah. I mean like all power to him if he. does. [ __ ] Who doesn't want to see. >> Oh yeah. I mean I would love to see him. fight Jon Jones at the White House. And. what's your ideal White House card look. like? >> Jon Jones versus Pereira for sure. Um. Conor McGregor versus uh Michael.

Chandler. That would be awesome. You. know, you want to have some fun. Like. that's that's a fun fight. Um. >> you know, and then you'd probably want. like Islam Makachev versus Ilia Tuporia. That would be insane, you know. Maybe. even at 155. I don't know if Islam even. wants to make 155 anymore, but Ilia said. he would fight him at 170, >> which is crazy because Ilia's smaller. than me. Like I that's that's another. guy. >> walk around with it. >> I don't know. Uh I don't know. But. that's another guy that has the touch of. death. There's guys that that just have. freaky power.

>> Hopefully he doesn't let his personal. [ __ ] derail whatever is happening. >> Oh, I [sighs] know. I know. >> Like you're in your late 20s and it's. like not the time, bro. >> I know. It's crazy. I don't know what. happened. with the wife. I don't know if it's a. coincidence, but I mean, you can't I'm. sure the internet has their speculation, but the timing is very odd with like one. of these interviews he did where. somebody was almost seemed to plant in. his head that like if you meet a a wife. in uh Miami that she's probably like not.

a you know, good uh you know, >> is that where he met her? >> I think so. Yeah. And it was like. >> but he lives in Spain. And somebody I. forget who it was, but somebody like. jokingly said, "Oh, you met like it. looks like you can meet quality women in. Miami crazy." Like you would have never. thought. And then he was like visibly. shook. He was like, "What do you mean by. that?". >> Oh no. >> And the guy was like, "Did I just offend. you and you're going to [ __ ] me up or. like what is happening right now?" And. he was just seemed to like almost. internalize that. Is there a reason I.

shouldn't trust Miami women and I. haven't considered it? And then it just. like you can't help but think with the. timing the [ __ ] wheels are turning. >> Oh god. I didn't know that he met her in. Miami. I don't know if that's even true. cuz he lives. >> or if it even is like relevant at all. But it's just weird timing. >> I would imagine it's relevant meeting a. woman in Miami. >> Like I mean the the factors certainly. support that it's like a more likely. chance that she's not the person she. represented herself as potentially. But. >> well, not just that, it's the culture of.

Miami. I always say that if you want to. starve to death, open up a bookstore in. Miami. It's like people are just. parters. It's like you should have a. passport to go to Miami. It's barely. America. It's fun. It's great city. a. lot of fun, but it doesn't really lend. itself to like the kind of like sturdy. stay-at-home mom support for a world. champion because the discipline involved. in being not just a world champion but a. world champion on Ilia's level, you. know, like two division dominator goes.

up, knocks out Charles Olivera like it's. nothing, which is not only that had a. celebration. >> the night before the fight, celebrating. victory. That was almost like Gordon. Ryan [ __ ] like times two. Like. >> and even apologized to Charles. I'm. sorry it has to be you. You know, I love. you. You're a great guy. Sorry it has to. be you. >> Like super respectful of Charles. He's a. legend. >> You know, and then flat lines him in the. first round. Like he said he was going. to. He's like he's like, "Trust me, I'm. going to knock him out in the first.

round." One punch. Boom. >> Touch of death. It's like he's There's. guys that have And for him it's like not. a big guy, right? like not extremely. muscular. Like there's nothing. He's not. massive, but it's mechanics. His. mechanics are [ __ ] perfect. His. timing is [ __ ] perfect. Belief in. himself, technique, everything. It's. like all the above. But it's like. there's guys that you can't let hit you. And Ilie is one of them. And I I think. that probably carries all the way up to.

170. I just don't I mean the difference. between so 170 look at him and then look. at some of the big 170s like Jack Dela. Matalena he's a [ __ ] big guy like. there's like big like Michael Venom. Paige he's [ __ ] huge that would be a. nightmare matchup. >> for for Ilia if he really did decide to. go to 170 a guy like Venom because you. can't hit that guy. >> like and if you can't hit that guy and. he can hit you and he's a point fighting. champion so that is the absolute best.

style of the blitz of like being able to. close distance quickly. Nobody does that. like that. MVP. He's the best at it. >> The best at it maybe of all time. >> Yeah. I wonder if it'd be kind of like. when Canelo tried to go up and then it. was kind of like. >> and he fought BVA. Yeah. Yeah. >> I could see that sort of being the. outcome where it's not as uh. >> Yeah, could be. But Canelo it's like. later in his career, you know, but it's. like there it would be a giant. >> but also you have like the disadvantage. of it's actually MMA versus just boxing.

But like yeah, the guy is one of the. most exciting guys to watch. Has is a. great representative too when he was on. your show. Dude, is it better to just. like not talk about any of it publicly. and just like keep your relationship. [ __ ] like private? You would think. >> I think most of your life you should. keep I think social media in general and. that not just for famous people just in. general is way worse for people than it. is good especially Instagram. >> Yeah. Um, I think many a person has. ruined their life on Twitter. Many a.

person has said things on Twitter that's. tanked their career, ruined their life. You know, it's just the motivation to. get attention for your words and your. images is very toxic. It's very. dangerous and you're playing with. explosives. >> It's just not smart. It's just not a. good thing to engage in. I am much. happier when I rarely am on social. media. >> And so I like dip my toes in, see what. everybody's mad about, and then I get. the [ __ ] out and move on with my day. >> And I never try to portray myself in any.

way other than who I actually am. I. don't. >> I'm not interested in like some [ __ ]. you know, some. video. montage with [ __ ] music and. inspirational quotes. If somebody else. makes that, that's fine. I'm not. involved, >> but I'm not putting anything like that. up and checking the likes. Get the [ __ ]. out of here. That's bad for you. I think. it's bad for your the good and the bad. The negatives, the people hating on you.

is bad for you. Like, oh, that's not me. at all. Hey, why are you saying that? And then the good's not good for you. either. Cuz then you start believing. your own [ __ ] and think your [ __ ]. doesn't smell. It's crazy. It's bad for. you. It's just It's the opposite of. mindfulness. It's the opposite of being. in the moment. is the opposite of that. cuz you're like living for other. people's attention that you don't even. know. You don't even know these people. and you're allowing them to comment on. like your wife and your family. You're. holding her hand and you're renewing.

vows. You're on your knee presenting her. a ring with in a video. What the [ __ ]. are you doing? Like why would you do. that? That's a private thing. If it's. real love, it should be between the two. of you. And if it's like if you're. really working, work hard in silence. What is this? What are you doing? Like. what is all this about? But it's just. for likes. Everybody is addicted to. these likes. You I want to see the. numbers. Only 6,000 likes. This is. crazy. I bared my soul for you. I just.

think it's really bad for people. And. also, it's like most people don't know. what fame really is. They think they do, and then they get it, and then they. think they can manage it. And then the. the the the [ __ ] psychology behind it. and the the spinning that goes on in. your mind when you're trying to go to. bed and you're worried about all the. mean things people are saying about you. It's like. [snorts and clears throat] it's just. bad. It's just not good. >> What's the strategy now for you burner. phone or like how do you do just like. divorce yourself from.

>> I just don't read it. I don't read. anything. >> Um and I don't. >> You did a burner phone for a while then. >> Yeah. I Well, >> was it just [ __ ] annoyed? >> I do have a burner phone. Well, I I. don't have a burner phone. I have a. phone that I give to people that are. just annoying or that I don't really. want to like I leave it at home and. never check it. So, there's there's. certain like business stuff and I don't. want business stuff to be entering into. my life all the time. So, I want to I. have like regimented times where I check. things and respond to people. But, I. think my next phone number, which I'm.

changing soon, is going to be no social. media at all. And then my other phone. number, I'm just going to do that with. it. I'm just gonna do my social media. posts. All the stuff that I have to do. like, "Hey, I got a show coming up." Or, "Hey, this guy was great. It's podcast. happening." Post and ghost is what I do. Post then get out of there. But I'm not. going to have any social media on my new. phone. I just generally think it's bad. for you. And it gets in the way of it's. it's an abuse of precious resources. That's what I think. So, do you have uh.

like podcast and stuff on it or like how. do you do you entertain yourself with. actual social media or like how. >> No, I'll entertain myself with YouTube. >> It's hard to not like have this [ __ ]. infiltrate when you have like a taste of. it. It's like before you know it, you're. sitting on the toilet looking at social. media or something. >> Yeah, that's a another nice thing that I. like to do is not look at my phone when. I'm on the toilet. Just go to the toilet. and just leave it there. I've been. leaving my phone on do not disturb, too, which is also a nice thing. I like doing. that. put it on do not disturb and check. it occasionally. Every now and then.

check it. And you know, you could set up. do not disturb where certain people can. get through, like my wife can get. through, my kids can get through, best. friends can get through. But it's just. like I think that for the most part, what you're what you're doing is you're. using very valuable resources on things. that aren't valuable at all. >> Yeah. It's part of the reason I uh work. best late at night. As much as I would. love to have the perfect circadian. rhythm and, you know, go to bed at the. perfect time and align it with the sun. going down. It's like the only time my.

phone and all the stuff is not blowing. up is in the middle of the night and I. can just focus and not have to think. about stuff, you know, blasting me. >> Me, too. Yeah. My best writing is always. late at night when everyone's asleep. Yeah. >> Yeah. And and that's also it's like. there's something about late at night. where the world seems a little bit more. crazy that I I think my mind is like a. little more tuned to danger and chaos. and just like it it seems like more. heightened because it's dark out, you. know? It's dark out and everyone's. asleep. I'm like, what is the world. really made out of? Like that's where I.

do my best thinking. >> It's funny because when I look out, I. just see like calm. There's no traffic. Yeah. >> And I'm just like this is nice. that. too. But I I night is when I worry about. war. That's when I worry about Yeah, [laughter] that's I know it's not good. Sometimes I let it get in my head. That's when I get my most anxiety about. the future of the world. It's like. night. Something about that. >> Do you still smoke uh weed a fair bit or. >> allegedly? >> Yeah. Um. >> how's that?

>> It's great for writing. Oh, that's not. good for paranoia. [laughter]. >> I fig That's what I was asking. >> Yeah. Well, it makes you like hyper. sensitive to to danger it takes, too. And yeah, >> but it's a really great for creativity. For creativity, there's nothing like it. And for comedy, it's a steroid. It's. like the best like it is the best. performance-enhancing drug ever created. for writing comedy. Oh, really? >> Yeah. There's nothing like it. Like. especially edibles, like you you have. thoughts that like you're like, "Okay, I. don't even know if I would ever have. that thought without weed." Like that.

thought is weed wrote that joke. I. barely [snorts] barely had anything to. do with that. What's the ideal edible. dose? >> Depends on your tolerance. Talk to Zero. tolerance. Oh, 10. 10 milligrams might. [ __ ] you up though. Maybe five. Maybe. five is good. >> You know, that's like in the places. where it's legal. Like if you go to New. York or LA, they they I think LA has a. 10 milligram threshold. I think you can. only get 10. That's the highest you can. get. 10's a lot for someone who doesn't. do it. >> But, you know, Joey Diaz will pop like a.

250. Two. He'll pop a F. He'll pop two. 250s. He's a [ __ ] freak though. Like. his tolerance is like nothing I've ever. seen in my life. >> He used to dose people. He would take. like a 25 milligram edible and he take. the wrapper off and put a 250 milligram. edible in and give it to his co-host. >> Oh my god, dude. [laughter]. It's like I think it's funny, but like. I'm not. >> It's only funny cuz it's Joey. If it was. anybody that is in love, you'd be like, "What the [ __ ] is wrong with you?" But.

when Joey does it just like oh my god. So, you just think you're dying like. unreasonably or something. >> You just know. And he's over there. laughing. >> And [laughter] you're just sitting there. spiraling knowing that you [ __ ] you. up. >> Yeah. He just always says, "I want to. see the devil." He goes, "Fuck this mic. with those thing. I want to see the. devil." He likes [snorts] seeing the He. likes getting freaked out. >> He likes it. Um, but I mean, for. creativity, I think it has a place. >> That's the comedian juice right there. >> Yeah. I think, you know, not for. everybody. Some people don't like it at. all. You know, I know some really great.

comics that are stone cold sober, and. for them, it's just they just like to. sit and think. But, um, a lot of the the. best ones that I know, they, um, have. flip switched over to either a flip. phone or, uh, a phone with nothing on. it, no social media at all. >> I think eventually you realize like that. time you're spending just scrolling. mindlessly through things, that's such. it's such precious resources. your time. You only have so much time in a day and. you're spending time just looking at.

nonsense. But it but also the other side. of it is you do want to have your finger. on the pulse of society. You want to. kind of know what's going on in the. world. >> Yeah. If you're a comedian, how do you. even like talk about pol pop culture and. stuff that's trending or whatever? >> Well, interestingly enough, I get sent. enough things. >> Oh, it's like consolidated for you. >> Yeah. I get sent enough things by my. friends that are [ __ ] up that I don't. have to go looking. >> So, I'll go, "Jesus, is that real?" And. then I'll maybe, you know, do a search.

and find out that it is real and then. read about it and like go, "What?". >> But that I think is probably valuable. because it's keeping you informed. It's. the endless mindless scrolling that I. think is the most detrimental and the. the one that robs you of the most time. because, you know, you could be sitting. down at the kitchen table and all a. sudden you have this plan for the day. You're going to get going. and you're. drinking a cup of coffee and then you. know 45 minutes is gone. >> Yeah. >> 45 You get a brutal [ __ ] workout in. 45 minutes but you didn't do anything. >> There's nothing more guilty feeling than. having wasted like your six to eight.

really sharp mental hours any any part. of that on something that dumb. >> I feel so bad when I do it when when I. have done it in the past. I just feel. >> and it's like how do I do it again you. know? >> Yep. How did I how did I let it get me. again? >> Yeah. It's like you feel like a like an. idiot or like a druggie or something. It's like, >> well, you are you're you're a low-level. druggie, you know? It's a low drug. It's. not even a good one. It's not even like. I feel great. This is amazing. Like, it. doesn't even do that to you. >> Sean um Sugar Sean Ali had a great.

quote. He said, "Even when I'm just. regular scrolling, even has nothing to. do with me." He goes, "I get a lowlevel. anxiety.". >> And I'm like, "Yeah, me too." Like, it's. weird. And I think that lowlevel anxiety. is like a little bit of, you know, you're wasting your time, >> you know? >> For sure. when he fought Morab the. second time, he got totally off social. media for like months and months. >> Oh, probably the best strategy. >> Yeah, it still didn't help, you know. >> Yeah. I mean, at least he put in like. did what he thought would work though. I.

mean, did his best. >> There's a lot of people that will. succumb to the pressure at the max level. and check the, you know, what people. were saying about them. Who's going to. win? [groaning]. >> That's the worst, man. >> Watching your training footage you. posted and. this guy talking about whatever. >> Yeah. I mean, some people thrive on it. They like haters. >> Bodybuilding is the worst for it, too. I'm sure it's just as bad in MMA, but. it's like your entire physique is like. your social media brand. So, it's like. you you post your physique and then the.

feedback you get, you kind of have to. look at, I guess, because it's like what. you compete with, too. You're literally. taking judge feedback that's subjective. and taking what they're telling you is. wrong with your body to fix. >> And then you're just bombarded by people. in the comment section are like, "You. lost because of this. You're lazy. How. did you not get in shape?" And it's like. even down to the lighting on stage can. make you look much worse than you. actually are. They be like, "You showed. up with soggy glutes, bitch." And it's. like, [laughter] "I'm [ __ ] shredded.".

Like, what are you talking about? >> Soggy glutes is hilarious. >> Yeah. And it's like back in the 90s, uh. I don't know what it was, but it was. like some of the lighting too was almost. so bad that it gave this granular sharp. kind of like pixelated but like etchy. look to the physiques and it would look. like they were more cut and defined and. just better down lighting overall. And. some of these shows, they're so washed. out with the high resolution and like. the perfect and when I say perfect, it's. like almost overexposed lighting to show.

what's going on on the stage. >> that they look watery and fat even when. they're like, and I say watery and fat. like, you know, like the [ __ ] up. perception of the fitness industry. >> It's like proportional to what you're. expected to look like. But it's like. they could be shredded out of their mind. and like having worked so hard to show. up in shape and then just get like. decimated online from some [ __ ]. keyboard warrior who's like. >> your back is like too watery, bro. Go. back to the [ __ ] elliptical, you.

know? [laughter]. >> Well, it's also like bodybuilding is the. sport of ego, right? Because it's only. about what you look like. >> Yeah. It's crazy. >> That's the whole thing. It's not about. how fast you are. Like like look look. Gable I was like he's not shredded. >> you know but he's ultimate freak. >> you know look like BJ Penn in his prime. like there's a lot of guys who are they. were never shredded. >> they they were always just smooth and. [ __ ] people up David Benvdas another one. like elite world class boxer light.

heavyweight champion a little muffin top. just f did you see this last fight. Benvitas fought uh Anthony Yard. >> uh. >> okay perfect contrast just happened last. weekend. >> oh I missed on. Yeah, >> Yard is [ __ ] shredded. He is an. Adonis. He is a Greek god. He's. literally like, you look at him, there's. no way if you saw the two of them, you. would say that guy on the left that has. no abs and is smooth is going to [ __ ]. destroy the guy on the right. Nobody.

would believe it. See if you can find. >> Yeah. the two of them together. >> There's no way. There's no way. David. Benitz is one of the scariest guys alive. because he's relentless. He's so [ __ ]. skillful. He's so fast. Is brutal. combinations, but he's so unimpressive. physically looking at him. And Yard. looks like like you would expect in a. movie. Like the perfect the perfect. scary opponent. Like there's Benvdas. >> Oh yeah. >> Like look at him. I mean he looks like. an athlete, right? Looks in shape. But.

now where do you see yard. first? Sorry. >> Look at [snorts] shredded. >> Yeah. fitness. >> [ __ ] shredded and brutal power, too. But he just couldn't [ __ ] with Benvitas. See, go uh way deep into the fight. before he stops him. Yeah. I mean, Benvdas was just putting. it on him. Just standing right in front. And Yard, the thing about having that. much musculature, there's just a reality. of your, you know, the the oxygen.

>> Yeah. >> Just beat the [ __ ] out of him, man. And. Yard's really good, man. He he's a. really good boxer, but Benvita's like, look at the difference in the physiques, man. His physique is perfect. >> Yeah. I mean, it's almost like a. limitation for some people where you're. just like sapping up so much oxygen. carrying capacity to supply the tissue, >> but it's, you know, it's also there's a. skill gap. I mean, Benvditz is super. [ __ ] skillful and his he's this is. the guy that people say Canelo has been. avoiding.

>> and he kind of probably has. >> because Benvitas is the upand cominging. Mexican champion that everybody loves. and Canelo is, you know, the king and. everybody was like this is the big fight. at 168 and so Benvitas had to go up to. 175 to get big fights because Canelo. wouldn't fight him at 168. >> Huh. Canelo is uh is he just kind of. like picking and choosing? >> Look at this. Look at this, bro. Come. on, man. This [ __ ] guy is good. He's. so good. He stands right. He's young, man. I think Benvitas is is he 28? How.

old is David Benvitas? >> He's young. >> Okay. >> Young and elite and going through his. prime right now. How old is he? 28. Yeah. >> Okay. >> Yeah. In his prime. You know who's even. more unassuming is like half the NHL. players that play hockey. >> Oh, really? >> Oh, dude. Like, have you ever seen. somebody look more like a frat bro who. does not play sports? NHL players. >> Well, those guys have crazy cardio. >> Yeah, that's crazy.

>> But you would never think like I used to. bounce downtown Vancouver and we'd have. the teams come by that would play the. Canucks and they would come party at the. Champagne Lounge and the club that I was. bouncing at. and he'd be like, "This guy. is like, you know, a professional. athlete." It would be the whole team and. half of them looked like, you know, some. dude that's like you'd do like a [ __ ]. cake stand with at like, you know, a. party and that's like the max of his. athletic capacity is being like held up. to chug some beer or something. >> Well, I bet those guys drink a lot.

>> Oh, yeah. >> I bet out of all the athletes that. drink, it's got to be hockey players at. the top of the heap, right? >> Yeah. And they're uh they're [ __ ]. super athletic or good endurance, you. Oh, it's like just so unassuming. physique-wise. It's like. >> it's all legs. >> Yeah, >> it's got to be all legs. I bet they're. shredded from the waist down. >> Yeah, it's crazy seeing like the sport. specific translation in actual like. physical like physiology that's. conducive to your sport. You see a. sprinter and it's like, you know, he's a. [ __ ] 100 meter sprinter. >> and then you see, you know, another guy.

and it's like you might not even think. he plays sports. You know, I I thought. that when I went to the professional. soccer uh uh team here in town, Austin. FC, they these guys have these [ __ ]. quarter horse legs. >> and then like real thin upper bodies. Like they don't use their arms. They. don't I mean it's literally unless. you're a goalie, you don't use them. Yeah. So they have like tiny little. upper bodies, massive [ __ ] legs, and. insane cardio because they're constantly. sprinting. They sprint for 90 minutes. I.

mean, they're just running around. sprinting. >> There's a a couple outliers that do look. up uh Adam Trayori, I think it is. I. might be totally butchering, >> but Ronaldo. Ronaldo's pretty. >> Ronaldo's pretty jacked, though. >> He's He's jacked. >> He's like the hyper optimizer, too. >> He really is. I mean, that guy won. Remember there was a thing where they. tried to give him a Coca-Cola and he. [ __ ] took it aside. Said, "No, Awa.". >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And and Coca-Cola lost like a billion. dollars in stock. Whoa, look at that. guy. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That guy's a freak. Yeah.

>> Well, there's always going to be freaks. out there. >> Yeah. But it's crazy to see a guy like. that excel so well, too, at a sport that. you would think he'd kind of be like uh. barely chugging along. >> Well, that's probably just cuz he's been. doing it his whole life, you know, and. he has unbelievable genetics. >> Yeah, >> genetics are a nutty thing, man. You. can't outrun genetics, but they don't. always help. Like, look at Yard. Yard. has perfect genetics, right? >> Yeah. >> And then Benvitas, you would look at him. and you go, "Oh, that's not the best. genetics." Like if he was a bodybuilder, you'd like get the [ __ ] out of here.

>> Yeah. It's crazy, too, cuz sometimes you. might just have like nice looking round. muscle bellies, but you don't actually. have like mitochondrial density to. support athletic endeavors. So, you're. kind of just like a show thing. You're. just like a cosmetically pleasing. athlete, but not actually able to. translate it into anything. >> Yeah, that's weird. I've always thought. that was weird. I always thought that. was weird and striking because there's a. lot of guys that are just built like. [ __ ] brick [ __ ] houses and then you. see them hit the bag and be like. >> this is nuts. Like you have zero power. It's weird.

>> Yeah. And it's like you would think. objectively more muscle equals but. sometimes they're like weak as [ __ ] even. in lifts. It's just like the development. the hypertrophy they get from it is just. disproportionately better. >> That's weird. Can that be optimized. though? like if they have like. unbelievable looking physiques, is it. just that they're not doing as much. because they don't need to to look. great? >> I think there's definitely specific. training for purposes that would be. conducive to sport that maybe they some. might be neglecting for sure and ways to. optimize for like like for example, you.

don't do hypertrophy work for. bodybuilding because it's not conducive. really to what you're trying to get. And. I think some some people they want the. best of both worlds and they want to. like look the part and also perform. So. they might be. >> sapping bandwidth that could be. allocated towards more optimal things. that don't make them you know as. cosmetically pleasing. >> And there's definitely things you can do. from a uh support standpoint when it. comes to you know nutrition. supplementation. etc. But like you are ultimately going.

to be capped to some extent by genetic. coding when it comes to like density of. certain receptors and like you can. upregulate it to whatever capacity you. can but like you can only push it so far. before you've kind of you know. >> capped out. >> It's interesting because like the really. bulky guys they just never have the same. fluidity that the guys that are built. like Benvitas have where the the the. punches flow and these effortless. combinations of perfect technique. the. really jack guys that look like they're. they're destroyers.

>> The flexibility is so much more limited. too when you're like that though. >> Oh yeah. Unless you really work at it. >> Yeah. >> Really work at it. >> Yeah. And you have to have a intentful. approach to making sure you can. maintain, you know, the flexibility that. might otherwise just be innate to. somebody who doesn't have to deal with a. giant deltoid that like. >> Right. Right. Right. Yeah, >> you know, uh, Jaco, you know, Joo, um, you know, I've hunted with him before. and Jaco like a correct archery release.

Correct archery release is you're. supposed to get a surprise shot. So, as. a shot breaks, your arm kind of goes. back like this. Jaco is so jacked and he. has such limited motion that his archery. release is like this. >> Like, it doesn't But he's doing it. correctly, but his it doesn't move the. same way. It's all just choco smash, you. know? He's just his body is designed to. choke the [ __ ] out of you. Like that's. all it's for. His bo his body is. designed to get a hold of you, take you. to the ground, snap your [ __ ] arm in. half. That's what it's for. It's just.

force and and strength and you know and. it like it's funny. I'm like I'm like. does your arm not move that way? He's. like, "No, it doesn't doesn't go back.". I'm like, "That's funny cuz I I'm. watching him watching his archery. release. It's perfect. >> But there's, you know, you watch like a. like a Levi Morgan, a world champion pro. archer, like as the shot breaks, their. arm just goes back like naturally just. like flows. His just goes, it just moves. a little bit. >> When I was uh at my peak of bodybuilding. size, I was in the middle of a job as a.

lifeguard and teaching swimming lessons. to kids. And part of the teaching. swimming lessons would involve showing. how to do the different strokes of, you. know, back crawl, front crawl, breast. stroke, all the different things. And. when you're like a 265 lb bodybuilder, it gets pretty difficult because not. only do you just sink harder because. you're, you know, mostly muscle, but. also like just even trying to get a. straight arm past your head, it's. impossible. So I actually had to stop. teaching swimming. [laughter].

like your ears, your [ __ ] shoulders. are slamming in. >> like it would look like you couldn't. even do what you're trying to teach like. a [ __ ] six-year-old or something. >> Very few guys work on mobility. A great. example of someone who does is Arman. Sukian. Arman Sukian who just won. He. beat Dan Hooker two weeks ago or a week. ago. His mobility training is [ __ ]. super impressive. Like s he's jacked. Have you you seen Arman? >> Yeah, he's pretty. >> shredded. He's a guy that like doesn't. pass the smell test. You're like,

>> there's a way to improve mobility, by. the way. It's just a lot of bodybuilders. like do not care, >> right? >> And like there is some anatomical. limitations ultimately if there is. muscles literally in the way. But I just. want to put out there like I'm sure I. could have figured it out if I cared at. the time. >> perhaps, but at 265 with your frame. >> Oh yeah, I would have been limited by. like the actual anatomy, but like I had. no care for optimizing mobility or. anything. I was just like, "What's my. max bench?" Show a photo of Derek when. he was jacked. When he was super jacked. cuz there's some photos of him out there.

that are just You were preposterous. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Do you miss those days? You ever look at. that physique? God, damn, I look pretty. [ __ ] good. >> No, I mean I feel like I've come to. peace a while ago with not looking like. that anymore. It's a lot of upkeep, dude. So like. >> Yeah. Look at you then. Is that at your. height? >> Uh. >> I think you were a little bigger than. that at one point. >> Yeah, I think this is uh like a profile. picture. So yeah, that that was a more. recent one. It was probably like how I. lost 75 lbs in the bottom left is.

probably Yeah, right there. The fat. maybe one of those that shot probably is. one of the big. >> Bro, you got big at one point in time. Was that how you were before you started. lifting? >> Look at that old school Blackberry you. have. >> So that [laughter] that dates it just by. the phone. >> Oh yeah. Yeah. It was uh um I was like. trying to be a competitive uh. bodybuilder and I just kind of realized. that I could look good for you know like. fitness industry I guess for kind of. looking jacked for Instagram or whatever.

and like doing okay at like a regional. level for you know a lower tier level of. physiques but like bodybuilding to take. it to that next level. It was just like. a level of stress I wouldn't be able to. one be willing to sustain and then two. it just wouldn't have been worth it. because it was like I had tried pushing. drugs and like I just wasn't responding. to a level I knew I needed to to. continue and justify using that much. >> Is it a genetic thing? >> Yeah. So it's like your uh androgen.

receptor content is a uh largely. predetermined. There are some things you. can do similar like mitochondrial. density and things of that nature that. you can do to upregulate and improve it. Um, and certain supplements you can use, but ultimately your number number of. muscle fibers are going to be limited. Like there's going to be people who are. just at baseline, you know, Chihuahua. looking humans that if you put them on. gear, they just become bigger Chihuahua. humans essentially, but like they're.

never going to be, you know, Yeah. they're never going to get to, you know, Mr. Olympia caliber and there's a. certain like muscle belly that's more. conducive to looking bigger and also. being able to support certain body. weights is even like a health thing too. It's not just how well do you respond to. drugs, it's also how long can you take. them without dying, >> you know? So it's like some of the most. highest uh performing and like excelling. athletes are individuals who can. tolerate this stuff and not go you know. crazy from the.

>> some people mentally cannot handle these. level of androgens and they you know it. wrecks their sleep it wrecks their uh. blood work it wreck they get really. early cardiovascular disease. >> psychologically too they go crazy. >> yeah yeah I've seen deaths in you know. late 20s mid30s and so. >> there was a guy that uh was Vtor. Belelffort's trainer when Vtor first. entered into the UFC. So, Vtor when he. first fought in the UFC weighed 200 lb. in his UFC debut when he fought uh Trey. Teligman, that was UFC 12. And he was.

like a super athletic, fast, lethal. black belt with vicious hands. And then. when he fought Randy Couture, he was 240. and his neck started at the top of his. head. It was he just look looked like a. liar. >> It was a giant [ __ ] trap. >> Yeah, it was just ridiculous. He was. just ridiculous. And the guy who was uh. working out with him, this guy Curtis, wound up dying very young. And we used. to call him garden hoses cuz this guy's. veins were he was so vascular. It was. [ __ ] ridiculous. We worked out next. to him like, "Bro, you got garden hoses.

for veins. These are [ __ ] insane." He. was just insane. And he was so big. Like. so big. 300 plus, 510, 300 plus pounds. Just [ __ ] jacked. He was so big. And you know, he had Vtor. convinced that. >> that was the way to go. just [ __ ] hit. the gas full speed. >> Yeah. I mean, at his peak, he was uh one. of the sauciest dudes, right? At least, you know, he was like the perfect hybrid. of athleticism meets like crazy looking. physique, I would say. At least at the. time, from what I can recall. >> Well, the TRT Vtor was Vtor. So Vtor on.

the gear when he was younger and then no. gear for a while lull period and then. when they had TRT in the UFC where they. allowed it when it was legal which was a. crazy few years that that people call it. the TRT Vtor years where Vtor was just. dominating everybody. >> Yeah. >> Him and Overim are like poster childs. >> Overim was the that is the poster child. See if you can find a video of Arman. Sarukian's uh mobility workouts.

>> I just had it. >> Do you have it? because he does really. interesting stuff. Oh yeah. >> Yeah. Like uh stuff I've never seen um. UFC athletes do, >> but I would think would be really. conducive especially to like scrambles. in weird grappling positions where you. want to have strength in like odd like. odd positions of your body where you're. stretched out and. that there's one on the side that's. showing. >> Oh yeah. I can't imagine that. >> So this this kind of stuff like this. kind of stuff. >> Yeah. >> Like look at this.

Like [snorts] look at all these things. So he's doing these kind of things all. the time. >> Oh yeah. >> Just to maintain that kind of. flexibility along with all that mass and. all that power that he has. >> Yeah. >> Getting out of some of those awkward. positions. Like you got to be able to. get into weird spots comfortably. And. >> yeah, this is look at that. Like that's. crazy. That's crazy rotation of his. back. Yeah, >> he's got amazing mobility. But I do have. to say he also has back problems.

>> Ah, >> and it might be one of the reasons why. he does this. >> I mean, yeah, when you go exorcism on. the [ __ ] twister machine, I. [laughter] can imagine he probably end. up with something. >> I don't think that's what caused it, honestly. I think it's probably. grappling. Like, he's a really elite. grappler. There's a video of him. grappling with Hamzot and he keeps up. with Hamzot and they're two weight. classes separated and Hamzad is [ __ ]. fantastic and you know they're. scrambling and it's it's like a very. competitive grappling session.

>> Yeah. Yeah. I mean it's uh. >> and circling back to some like you know. the sauce days and like the garden hose. guy. I do think it's good that the. education is out there though for people. to be able to know how to not die from. this stuff now because it's. >> Whoa. That's Curtis. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That's him. >> Cuz back then it would just be like. >> Go to that photo again in the upper. left. That upper left photo. That's. crazy. Guy was so vascular. Like look at. his bicep. [ __ ] bananas, right? Look. at that right bicep. And his chest. He's.

got [ __ ] garden hoses on his chest. Full chocolate but chocolate face, too. >> He had chocolate face. >> Or Milanot, not the wazy. >> Well, you know the guys that do it now. where they keep their face white because. they don't want to be called out for. having black face. Have you seen that? >> Yeah. Yeah, that's funny. Yeah, it is. funny. >> Have you seen the I think we looked at. the melanotan people. peptide. >> Yeah, melanotan 2 is a one of the I. don't know if it's an obscure one, but I. guess maybe proportional to some of the. more widespread ones nowadays, but it's. like a melanoortin receptor agonist and.

actually an analog of it is used for. women for uh hypoactive uh like low. sexual drive. So it actually enhances. sexual drive too. So there's like a. component there's a version of the drug. that doesn't tan you that just like. makes you hornier that women are. prescribed called Vilei and then men. there's no drug approved but you could. theoretically take it but it gives you. boners and also makes you tanned if you. take the melanotan too. >> Yeah. >> Huh. >> Yeah. So it's like for bodybuilders and.

it also suppresses appetite as well. >> Whoa. It really does that. >> That's Well, that's a weird uh the the. lighting on that one on the right is. weird. >> It's like from the Yeah, it's right on. the Daily Mail. So, it seems like they. might have. >> No, no, no. Dude, this is actually. possible. >> I like how it says that, too. >> You can literally manually become black. with this drug. >> Didn't some lady take that? She was on. like one of them Sally Jesse Raphael. shows. >> Yeah. And she claimed she was black. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Yeah. And she's like, "Look at me. What. are you going to tell me I'm not?".

>> Yeah. She started talking like, you. know, >> Oh god. >> Yeah. >> How wild. >> Yeah. >> What if it did it to your hair, too? Turn. >> it does cuz it's all pigment related. So, it does make your hair blacker as. well. It makes your facial hair darker. >> What does it do? Does there something. like that for guys that have gray hair? >> Uh, yeah. Like, it does it to your. >> Is this the Yeah, this is the lady. [laughter]. >> Forgot about this. >> Look at her boobs, too. Oh my god. >> It's crazy. >> That lady might be insane. Like, I'm.

guessing yes. >> And it's like, you almost wouldn't even. think it's real if you weren't told by. somebody that you actually can go that. far. Like it's it's literally you pick. your dose and the exposure to the sun. will dictate via the dosage like how. dark you get and you can go all the way. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. What? Like. >> full chocolate body. >> Is there any side effects? >> Yeah. You get really nauseous if you. overdo it. Um it's actually a really. potent appetite suppressor. So it's like.

one of the back in the day I used you. could find my before and after. Type in. melanoten 2 more plates more dates. see. my before and after the last time I used. it. But. >> And did you use it for bodybuilding to. try to Yeah, >> cuz I'm pale as [ __ ] So like for me, the thought of having a tan was pretty. awesome. There's me with my CPAT mask. on. [laughter]. >> If you'd take it with a CPAP mask on, >> I was just like, I look kind of [ __ ]. shredded. I'll take a pick. >> That's funny. >> If you scroll down, you'll see my back.

before and after. Uh if you keep going. there, right there. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's like weeks apart. >> Does tan you. >> Yeah. >> Dude, you had [ __ ] giant lats, man. That's nuts. >> Yeah. >> You like jump off a [ __ ] cliff and. [laughter] fly like a squirrel. >> Yeah. What a weird pose. You just stand. there like. >> Yeah. Well, bodybuilding is weird, period. Yeah. >> It is odd. It's just like the whole idea. is not the function. It's not. performance. It's just looking giant.

>> Yeah. It's like some of the exercises. don't even translate the way you think. they would, too. like you do a you get. really good at the bench press and then. you do something else that you think is. like pushing related or like force. production. It's like oh I'm weak as. [ __ ] here for some reason even though. you thought it would translate but. there's not like a it's almost training. uh neuronal patterns too more than even. just like the muscle and you get. hypertrophy but you're also kind of just. like training yourself to get really. good at specific movements in a way that. has like no application to a lot of.

sports typically. >> just to look jacked. There are more like. functional choices obviously, but like. the ones most conducive to bodybuilding. and not getting injured are oftent times. like you know the typical kind of like. beach body style things, but there. they're more intelligent choices for. sure. It's not all that. That's the. thing though is like the the the guys. who lift the heaviest and do it. That's. that's a very odd thing like and then. they wind up getting [ __ ] like Ronnie. Coleman wind up really getting [ __ ] up. from Ronnie was like famously one of the.

heaviest lifters as a bodybuilder. >> and for what it's worth. I'm absolutely. not like above this style of training. Like this is like what I still kind of. do to be honest. So it's like I do you. know I'm still a fan of bodybuilding. I. don't want to like speak poorly on it or. anything. And we oversee some of the. best bodybuilders on the planet right. now as well and make sure they can. [snorts] do it as safely as possible cuz. it's still a dangerous sport and um you. know you got to take modern knowledge to. not screw yourself up nowadays. >> Would do you ever tell a guy like you.

just don't have the genetics to ever do. this at a professional level? Do you. have ever have to have that conversation. with people like you're you're pushing. the gear so hard and it's not. responding? Like if I had a friend um I. guess maybe similar to your like. heartto-heart you had with Sha. [clears throat] about MMA at the time. when it was like not really worth. continuing to expose danger wise. >> Yeah. >> It's you know often a lot of these kind. of situations happen in bodybuilding. where it's like you have a close friend. who's taking exorbitant amounts of drugs.

and you know it's just like killing him. and you know that the like you're not. going to make it to the Olympia. So. really like what are we doing this for? Yeah, >> you got better opportunities elsewhere. Like I've had that conversation a couple. times. But in general, it's kind of like. you kind of have to have the. selfawareness. to know. And I think fortunately, that's. part of where the education comes in is. back in the day, you wouldn't know that. you had the bad genetics. You just think. everyone's taking more [ __ ] than you. >> cuz you wouldn't really you thought.

there was a secret that you didn't know. There was some special drug that they. sourced from Europe that you're not. getting, >> right? you know, they have the secret, you know, fill in the blank thing that. the guru at the Olympia level who's. coaching all the top bodybuilders has. and you just need to get to the next. level and get your IFBB pro card and. then maybe I'll get to work with that. guru and then he'll give me access to. that drug and then I can take it to the. next level. And then before you know it, a lot of these guys are still grinding. for really like low-level shows or like. to place poorly even at like the entry.

level of professional and their health. is a wreck and they're not really going. to make it to where they think maybe. they're on the path to. >> and so I don't know. I think the more, you know, transparent look into it has. made a lot of people more self-aware to. check themselves and also to know if. they're even because you have to respond. well from a health standpoint, too. It's. not just how good do I look in the. mirror. If you have wrecked blood work. or you have a uh abnormal uh anatomical.

structure of your heart before you start. subjecting yourself to hormones, these. are things that are all checkable now. proactively and you could tell. beforehand if you're a good candidate. not just from a muscular response. standpoint but also from a health. tolerance standpoint. >> I wonder what if any um what what factor. genetic engineering is going to play. into bodybuilding. >> Myostatin inhibition. Yeah. >> Um there is gene therapies that are. being utilized now. They're just not.

that efficacious. >> Is myostatin inhibitors are they are. people using them now? >> Pharmaceutical pipelines are trying to. integrate them in order to offset muscle. catabolism induced via GLP-1 uh agonist. like semiglutide. Interesting. >> Yeah. So, it's kind of a unique time. because not only do we have really. aggressive fat loss agents that actually. work now that are not simply stmming. your brain to, you know, to high hell, which a lot of the previous drugs worked.

like that. Now it's like we have these. effective things but they make you eat. so little that we now the next thing is. there's all this attention on how to. lose healthy weight and not you know a. bunch of muscle weight because there's. more education around the importance of. losing you know fat and not muscle which. is metabolically active tissue health. supporting whereas if you just end up. skinny fat you might be no better off. than when you started depending. [clears throat] on the person. So, >> so some of the more refined currently.

being developed drugs are like. >> these fat loss uh appetite suppressing. agents with concurrent like thermogenic. properties for energy expenditure and. then muscle preservation mechanisms. built in that inhibit myostatin or act. through other pathways to try and keep. the muscle on you. Yeah, Brigham from. Waste to Well was explaining that. they're using some people rather are. using GLP1s in conjunction with IGF and. they're they're combining a bunch of.

different things to offset the bone. density and muscle loss. >> and then also encouraging weightlifting. while they're doing it because a lot of. people are just taking them and then. just shriveling because look, if you. starve yourself, you will lose weight. but you're going to lose bone density, you're going to lose tissue, you're. going to lose everything. Yeah, that's. like one of the I think most important. components of the usage of them is. especially with you know women who might. be otherwise not even integrating it. into their regular life. They just end. up eating less of what is already a.

nutrient poor or protein poor diet and. aren't strength training as much as I. guess proportionately to men. And it's. becoming more prevalent among women. obviously which is great but like the. bone loss and muscle loss is significant. among anybody who is depriving. themselves of nutrients like that and. then. >> heart tissue too. >> Yeah. Like I mean everything you know. you're basically self-inducing. malnutrition. >> I just can't you just diet? >> I mean is it is it it's really a.

discipline thing with what? Not with. people that are severely obese. Like I'm. in favor of GLP-1s for people like if. you're 500 pound which but but I do have. to say Jelly Roll did it on the Natch. He did it on the Natch. He did not take. GLP ones. He's not he's not taking. nothing, man. That guy is just working. out every day and he just cut all the. [ __ ] out of his life. >> He got rid of his phone. He didn't have. a phone for He has one now, but he. didn't have a phone for the [ __ ]. longest time. Even his [ __ ] his um when you uh text.

him, his you know the little image that. shows up when you go phone, it's a phone. with a [ __ ] red line through it. >> Yeah. >> What does that mean? Like. >> was not interested in phones, man. Like. he decided not to have a phone for a. long time because he realized it was. negative for his mental health. >> and he wanted to lose a bunch of weight, but he did it naturally. He really did. He did it just through hard work and. discipline and just, you know, Have you. seen the images of him now? >> No, >> bro. There's uh him on stage with uh. Alexander Vulcganowski and he doesn't.

even look like the same guy. He's lost. 200 plus pounds. >> Oh, nice. >> He looks [ __ ] great. I mean, it's. amazing. >> One of the things that's tough when it. comes to like the assertation that it's. more a willpower thing than anything. In. many cases, I do think it is. There are. a lot of people with unhealthy behaviors. and psychological like tendencies to. just be, you know, it's easier to be. lazy than not and just, you know, >> it's also the food addiction because you. have to eat. >> But there are some people who just if. you ultimately have a genetically higher.

baseline. uh perpetual level of appetite. signaling, it's kind of hard to tell. that person like just [ __ ] you know, wrench it out, bro. Like you got this. And it's like I know a lot of people in. the fitness industry. Look how much. weight he's lost. Isn't it incredible? >> Yeah. It's great, >> dude. He looks [ __ ] great. It's. really amazing. >> No, especially impressive for. individuals who are that obese to make. that big of a change. It's like it's the.

hardest to make that first step and get. that big of a weight cut. >> Yeah. And then it's momentum after that. I watched an incredible video yesterday. One of the most motivational videos I've. ever seen. Um I'll send it to you, Jamie. is this kid and this guy is he's. uh out of shape. He's he's got high body. fat and the video is him saying that he. wants to work out like David Gogggins. for 100 days. He doesn't work out at all. >> and he goes from.

>> um I'll send it to you Jimmy. He goes. from being this guy who's like. completely out of shape to at the end of. the video he does a [ __ ] Iron Man. You found it? Yeah. So, this is the guy. So, in the beginning, in the beginning, he's like kind of fat and like that's. what he looks like and you know, he's. like motivated by Gogggins. So, the. first day he runs he gets up at 5:30 in. the morning and he runs 13 miles the. first day. I mean, he's never he doesn't.

run at all. He doesn't work out at all. He eats junk food. He's running running. past McDonald's and [ __ ] He's all fat. By the end of it, he's doing an ultra. well, he does an ultramarathon halfway. into it and then by the end of it, he. does an iron man. >> and now he regularly runs 100 mile. races. >> He got down to 140 lbs. He's shredded. now. It's really, really impressive. >> That's awesome. >> because it's just all discipline. Look. at the difference. >> 145, 9% body fat. He started out at 184, 27% body fat. And look, he's all lean.

now and healthy. And he he's running 100. mile races now. It's really amazing. because he just did it with sheer. willpower and documented the whole. thing. He's in agony. His ankle's all. [ __ ] up from running. So, he swims and. he swims in the pool and then he decides. to swim with weights on. He like really. becomes obsessed. >> Have you seen the guy who fasted for a. year straight? >> Yes. That's an old story, right? >> Yeah. But I think that's still the. record for like longest period of not.

eating and just like adhering to a diet. and he got vitamin IS and the guy who. did that what's interesting is he also. lost skin so his skin shrank along with. his body which I thought was. fascinating. >> Yeah. I mean I would imagine that to. some extent there's some elasticity. depending on how long you've been fat. and also like I don't know maybe just. the tissue itself there is some level of. >> 382 days. I'm sure your body's fending.

for energy from anywhere it can find it. if there's some way to I don't know. >> I think the interesting thing is he. didn't come around come out of it. looking like a lot of these people do. where they have to get all their skin. removed. >> you know. >> I mean I feel like there's got to be. loose skin to some extent. Does have a. shirtless. >> I don't know there's I don't know if. there's a shirt but that was part of the. narrative that his his skin actually. shrank along with his body because he. wasn't eating at all. >> I want to see that. >> Does that make sense? I mean, I was. trying to play along for a sec, but now.

I'm like, if there's not [laughter] a. pick, I don't know, dude. >> Well, it was also it's 1960 whatever it. was. >> Sounds like a interesting uh tail that. might have passed through the grapevine. >> Yeah, I wouldn't recommend that though. >> No, >> that sounds crazy. And then once you. start eating again, how do you just keep. the [ __ ] floodgates from. >> That's the interesting thing is some. people psychologically it's easier to. adhere to something when they're full. bore. And then like I know a lot of. people who they'll do commit to a. competition because they know I'm. accountable to step on stage and I don't.

want to look like [ __ ] when I'm on stage. and they do it. They get a bunch of. photos done and then after they go off. the rails and they're like right back to. where they started within, you know, a. month or two. >> That happens to a lot of fighters. Uh. they get done with uh fighting and then. they get really fat. >> It's really common. It's really common. because they also develop real eating. disorders because you're cutting weight. all the time and. >> Yeah. Yeah. I mean, for some of them, it's like you're basically like doing. bodybuilder [ __ ]. >> essentially. >> Well, Patty Pimpblelet's the best.

example of a current active fighter. >> That guy's crazy, dude. >> He gets so big, >> dude. His moon face is like the best in. the league, probably. [laughter]. So here it says 3 382 days from June uh. 14th, 1965 through uh June 30th of 1966. He consumed only vitamins, electrolytes, and unspecified amount of yeast, a. source of essential amino acids, and. zero calorie beverages such as tea, coffee, and sparkling water. Although he. occasionally added milk and/or sugar to. the beverages, especially during the.

final weeks of the fast. Um, Barbie. began his treatment in the hospital, but. for most of the 382 days he lived at. home. Okay, it says stool samples were. not taken, but he reportedly went up to. 48 days between stools. >> Wow. >> Which sounds crazy, but it's like what's. they're going to. >> Yeah. What would be coming out? His. starting weight was 456. >> and he the fast officially stopped July. 6 1966. He reached his goal weight of. 180 lbs. Wow. Yeah, it's nuts.

>> The next 10 days, doctors placed him on. a diet of salt and then sugar in. preparation for solid food. Though, some. sources record the fast being 392 days. instead of 382. Wow. Now, one of the things that's tough. is it's like even though maybe that case. study exists and there's people who just. brute force willpower their way through. it, >> some of those people otherwise might. have genetically been able to tolerate, you know, the hunger signaling better. than somebody else who literally cannot.

focus on work or anything when they're. >> that hungry. And it almost sometimes. doesn't even come down to the diet. quality as much as somebody might tell. them, >> "Yeah, it does." It it does to some. extent, but and certainly getting rid of. the shitty processed foods and getting. on a good exercise regimen and doing all. the things to set yourself up in the. best position will probably take care of. most people. But there are some. individuals who just like at baseline. Even on the inverse side, I know a lot. of people who simply aren't hungry and.

they have to force feed themselves to. gain muscle because they're just. perpetually shredded and they have like. the opposite problem because their. hunger signaling is so low. So, it's. like people look at them as an example. in the fitness industry of like, oh, this guy is the best discipline. He's. like so shredded all the time. And in. reality, that guy's like, I hate food. That's so weird. There's one guy in. particular, his name's a David Le, and. he's like, I don't know, like a teenage. Well, he's like in his 20s now, but. teenagers look up to him as kind of like. a fitness industry icon of aesthetics.

And he's perpetually had a shredded. six-pack. He's pretty jacked. He's tall. He's handsome. And he literally says on. camera, "I hate eating." And he's like. serious about it. He's like, "I can't. stand having to eat meals.". >> What? >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. >> Like it's not even just like to be a. bodybuilder. Like he's just like I don't. know. >> What is he eating? How is that possible? >> Good high quality food. >> Best picture I can find. I can't tell.

>> You can't tell. >> It looks. >> Yeah, it looks like he's got some fat. there. Yeah, it looks like he's got a. bunch of extra skin there. I mean, it's. just like, >> how could he not? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. How could he not? Find a picture. of that other guy. Who's the guy that. they call the most shredded guy alive? There's. >> Oh, helmet shrubble. >> Yes, that guy. >> That guy is crazy. >> Yeah. Find that guy. That's ridiculous. >> What is it? >> It's uh H E L M U T. It's been a while. since I've looked at this guy. >> And then S t. >> and uh.

>> did it come up? >> Helmet Shredded is coming up. That guy. helmet str. >> is this him? Yeah. Oh Jesus. That that. is insane. >> Yeah. >> I mean that guy's physique is the man. with 0% body fat. That's hilarious. Uh. that's not possible, folks. >> You want to see even more shredded? >> Is that really possible that he's got. more there's someone more shredded than. that? >> Type in Andreas Munzer. >> Oh, I've seen that guy. But what is this.

guy's body fat? >> It's not zero. Zero is not possible. What is that? Six. Uh. uh five five or six maybe. No. No. That. would be like stage super stage ready. beyond most bodybuilders even at their. the best of the best in terms of. conditioning. So I don't know, maybe. like six, seven. It's kind of tough. though, dude. Cuz like some of these. guys, they have like. >> Oh Jesus Christ. Go back to that. picture. That's nuts. >> That's like aggressive filtering and. sharpening to look.

>> whatever. [laughter] whatever it is, that's his real body. That's insane. >> Yeah, >> even I mean it's obviously like the the. best possible lighting for that effect. >> There's distribution of fat and water. that some people it's just looks more. uh shredded than another person who. might otherwise store any excess fat on. like their ass or like their love. handles or like whatever. for a guy like. that. Not only is he diced and like. obviously he's he's just diced, but he.

has like a dry look to the skin that. enhances the kind of perceived leanness. >> And it's like uh I forget what it is. It's not dick skin lean. I forgot what. the. >> dick [laughter] skin lean. >> I forget what the terminology is, but. it's like uh it's like white guy. something. And it's just like if you're. certain white physiques are known to. look more like you're almost so pale and. dry that it like enhances the perceived. leanness if that makes like any sense. whatsoever. >> Well, that's the weirdest thing about.

bodybuilding, right? You have to be. super dehydrated to look great and. you're almost dead. >> Yeah. Yeah. And then you have to, you. know, go chocolate body and stuff. [laughter] It's not ideal. >> But those guys, they they're they're. like they black out sometimes backstage, don't they? >> YEAH. I KNOW. >> YEAH, IT'S CRAZY. >> Which guy is that? >> That's helmet. >> 4% body fat. >> I might be% I might be totally. butchering his name, by the way. So, if. I'm. >> I hope, >> bro. >> Helmet. I hope I'm saying it right.

>> I would never wear a shirt. >> Why would I wear a shirt? >> You would not. >> He's 47. >> Wow. >> In this article, too, which is probably. like 5 to 10 years old. >> What does he look like now? I wonder if. he keeps it up because I mean, I would. be so hungry. [laughter]. >> Yeah. I I. >> Unless you're on a GLP. >> Oh, this is him. >> This is him now. Wow, that's crazy. >> No, that's not that's got to be. >> the same photo. Someone else was. >> Oh, somebody else put it up there. >> I think he has an IG. It doesn't seem. like. >> That's one of the weird things when. you're such an OG of the industry that.

you just have like weird residual fan. pages and you don't even know if it's. the guy or not. >> What's that old guy? He was bald the old. days. He had like the hair on the side. >> Scooby, >> was that his name? >> I don't know. Maybe. >> white guy. Uh he was like famous. shredded guy back in the early days. >> of bodybuilding. He was not big. >> He was thin, but he was like super. [ __ ] ripped. God, I can't remember. his name. >> Was he uh. >> but he had like the hair on the side. like weird like old man bald, you know?

Didn't have a full shaved head. >> Old man bald. >> Yeah, he looked like like the like when. people went bald in the 50s and they. didn't shave the side of their head. >> Yeah. [ __ ] I I I'm sure if I saw it, I. would know who you're talking. >> He was famous for teaching. You got him. >> I feel like you have enough. >> What's his name? >> I didn't get a name yet. Is this him? >> No. No, that's not him. That's It's. older. >> I bet you from a long time ago. [ __ ]. >> Who's the uh What's your preferred AI. search tool? Use that and type in what. you just said. >> Yeah. Put that into perplexity.

>> Old man bald OG fitness influencer. >> You have to give me a better search for. a time period. Like 90s 2000. Yeah. Yeah. 90s. >> Yeah. 90s. >> 90s. >> Oh god, his name is at the tip of my. tongue. Oh, this is driving me crazy. >> Uh, super shredded. >> Yeah, he would teach people how to be. shredded. He had like this protocol for. how to lose weight, but his whole thing. was being shredded. He wasn't that big. I mean, he was, you know, fit, but not. not like, you know, bodybuilder jacked. >> And he was Caucasian.

>> Yes. >> Yeah. >> It's telling me Billy Blanks, but. >> no no no no white guy. Um, [ __ ] I was. going to say Athleen X, but there's no. way that's who you're talking about. She's got great hair. >> It's a long time ago. No, Athleen X is. got wonderful hair. >> Tony Little. >> It's not right either. >> Speaking of hair, there's that new thing. that is uh the study out of UCLA where. they're going to be able to grow hair. back. >> Yeah. >> Isn't that wild? Are you pumped? [laughter]. You don't believe it or. >> No, dude. It's like every week it's some.

new thing like rodent regrrew hair after. being shaved bald using UCLA mediated. broccoli extract or whatever the [ __ ]. [laughter] And it's like now every. Reddit scientist is dumping [ __ ]. broccoli juice on their head or. whatever. It's just like never really. pans out ultimately. And it's pretty. shocking. I think I even mentioned this. at one point that we have all these, you. know, refined AI tools and drugs and. some of the most developed and refined. uh side nearly side effect free drugs. for some things that are pretty.

significant, you know, uh roots of. disease, but like hair loss, like no one. has a clue, >> right, >> how to fix it without size. >> Hair loss and dick size, two big ones. >> We know to max out your genetic capacity. for dick size, though. Well, the the. nuttiest thing that I've been paying. attention to lately is so many guys that. are getting their legs broken to get. taller. >> I got an update on that guy if you want. to. >> Oh, the Sasquatch guy. Yeah. How's he. doing? >> Well, uh I mean he's walking, but it's. like not perfect, >> but it's been a few years, right? >> Yeah. But he's also like the most. extreme edge case example of it's almost.

if it if it was unfair to use a guy as a. reference point, it's like this is the. heaviest, tallest example. So it's like. if anyone. >> he was 6 feet when he started and he got. to 66 and he was not walking like a year. later. >> Yeah. So he. >> he crutches. >> He said uh let's see. Um I could send. this to you if you want to put it up on. the screen where I could just show you. here. >> Yeah. Just text it to me. >> What does he is he Okay.

>> I mean he got sued by the company that. did his surgery. >> He got sued? >> Yeah. >> Why did he get sued? because he was. talking about all like the mishaps that. happened when he got because it's kind. of like there are good clinics and bad. clinics in terms of quality and he kind. of was I guess too forthcoming about. like I did a podcast with them and they. didn't like it. >> They're suing him. >> Yeah, >> literally. >> Well, they they did sue him. Yeah. >> How can you sue someone for telling the.

truth about a procedure that didn't work. out so great? >> I mean, great question. That's what I said. >> Well, how could you win? Maybe you could. sue someone. >> Maybe it's just like bury them in fees. or something. I don't know. >> Yeah, probably. >> Um, all right. Check. See if this came. through. Hopefully my LTE is good. >> Nope, not yet. >> You can air drop it to my computer if it. pops up. Going that way. >> Yeah, there you go. All right.

>> So, he's still [ __ ]. >> Yeah. One sec. >> God damn, man. Yeah, it's uh I was watching this guy uh. yesterday on Instagram. This uh fairly. thin kid. He wasn't wasn't big, but he. he gained 5 in, >> you know. He was like 5'5. Now he's 510. and real happy with it. But I was like, Jesus Christ. And a year later again in. crutches. One year later took him a year. and a half before he could walk.

normally. >> Yeah. I mean some people that's still. worth it to not have to Yeah. >> I guess. Yeah. I mean, if you're 5t tall. and then all a sudden you're 5'7", I. guess. >> Here, see if it did it come through for. you. >> Yeah. Yeah. I was trying to figure out. which what to play. >> I air dropped it. >> Oh, I got it. >> I got I got on the screen. >> Oh, nice. >> Okay. So, so this is 2023. Oh, wow. He. did it way back then. >> Yeah. >> Oh my god. Look how skinny his legs are. That's crazy how skinny his legs were. >> To have that much mass up top. That's.

crazy. >> Yeah. >> That's probably the problem, right? >> Well, it definitely is. uh the like I. said the most extreme of circumstances. to impose for what was seemingly a poor. quality clinic and then also trying to. go from a height that's objectively tall. to a height that's objectively extremely. tall with the most heavy guy that's. probably ever done the procedure you. would think. >> yeah he's 300 lb. >> way I think he was way more than that. >> you would say like hey man if you're.

going to do this lose upper body weight. and then gain it back so you can give. your legs a chance to grow. Oh my god, that's so crazy. It just it makes me. freak out because I'm getting anxiety. They're just going to snap and he's. going to fall over. >> Yeah, there definitely is something a. little bit unnatural about watching even. like the strikes on the ground. It makes. you feel like something's just going to. like. >> snap. >> Yeah, but to his credit, I mean, like. the guy literally couldn't even walk. before and he's. >> he's optimistic about it still and he. thinks he's going to make a full.

recovery. So. >> there is now November 2025. So that's. two years later. Two years later, he can. walk. >> What if he has to run from a fire? You. know what I mean? >> Yeah, he's [ __ ] for sure. [snorts]. >> Yeah. >> Well, also the mechanics, like your. body's used to moving legs that are 6 in. shorter and now like the knee has. different pressure and. >> you know, it's got to be really [ __ ]. strange. >> He said, uh, let's see. Bones are mostly. healed, just have a lot of weakness as. legs strengthen the pain decreases and. the spasms. >> Also, he's got to be on the sauce, too,

right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. So, even that's not helping. >> Uh, I mean, if anything, it would be it. would help in some of the recovery for. Bone, but it would also keep him yolked. and like more pressure on it, too. So, like maybe it's a. >> Yeah, it's a bit of a double-edged sword. there. >> He says, "Uh, major hurdles cleared, infection, knee tendonopathy. Will. probably walk normal within a couple. months. I can hop, but will need to. strengthen much more in order to really.

jump, jog, and run. planning to have a. US doctor fully fix any remaining. issues, but for now legs are good. >> Where'd he get his his surgery done? >> It was uh I did a podcast with him um. last year and I think it was Thailand. clinic where it's like a. >> boy he did a bargain. >> He got a bargain. Did he do a group? >> It it definitely wasn't the uh best. choice. >> He's 9 years post surgery. >> Nine. They were doing this nine years. ago. So, this guy, as far as I know, he. is a bit of a unique case in that he was.

actually correcting an asymmetry. So, he. had I'm almost positive, I don't want to. misspeak. I'm sure he'll correct it if. he sees this, but I'm pretty sure he had. one leg was like unusually. asymmetrically shorter than the other. one, and then he was kind of evening it. out to what would otherwise be his, you. know, like genetic symmetrical match. >> Oh, interesting. So there's different. applications to which people do this and. it's not always just like pure vanity. I.

want to get, you know, really tall. It's. sometimes like to correct a functional. like asymmetry. >> Um it's just, you know, a lot of people. you hear about the cases of I want to. get really tall for superficial reasons. kind of. >> It's just a matter of time before. they're just genetically engineering. everybody to look like Thor, you know? It's just a matter of time. I think. there's a lot of people that don't want. this to work though too because it's. like if it's almost too easy or like you. know doable. It's just like some people.

I say a lot of people unreasonably [ __ ]. on these people and it's just like you. know just take the content for what it. is you know. >> Yeah. No, that's true. But I but I'm. saying about with the genetic. engineering there's a lot of people that. are not want that to work either. But. tough [ __ ] You're not going to hold. back science because you don't like the. fact that. >> if like especially if someone has poor. genetics and they just look gross and. their whole life they've looked gross. and then all a sudden something comes. along it's like and now you're a [ __ ]. supermodel and you're 6'6 and like.

>> Mike it's you. What the [ __ ] happened? I. went to this clinic in Turkey and look. what they did. >> Yeah, that was like you were asking. about what uh. >> we talked about this before bone. smashing. >> What? I just saw a video about this then. thought it was fake but this seems like. a place to find out if it's real. >> Oh yeah. So people are like bammer. >> Yeah. >> Whatever they can do. >> I'm pretty sure this is not like an it's. like a clickbay thing among the people. that do this stuff. >> Wait a minute. Wait a minute. He's. hitting himself with a [ __ ] hammer.

>> So a kid was just using like a trophy. just banging his face all day. He's like. I've been doing this for years. So they. like think that they can uh induce acute. like bone remodeling in the area to kind. of like enhance like I don't know zygoma. development or what have you and get. better you know whatever asymmetry or. deficiency they deem to have. cosmetically corrected. Um and some of. them they're just punching their face. essentially before they go out at night. time to get like a temporary pump in. their cheeks. [laughter].

So, like, think about back in the day. when you went to the club and you're. like, I want to hit push-ups first. >> Yeah. [laughter]. >> Oh my god. >> So, it's like you're you're laughing and. they're probably like, "It's the same. thing.". >> You're [ __ ] punching your cheekbones. to get them stick out more. Oh god, it's. so dumb. [laughter]. >> There's so much out there, man. >> Yeah. >> Uh, listen, man. This is great. Congratulations on this. So, for. everybody that wants to buy it, Gorilla. Mind. Uh, I've been drinking it for two. hours now. Three almost. It's great.

>> Works. >> No, thank you. I feel like I haven't had. a cup of coffee the entire podcast. That's That's unusual for me. Um but it. tastes good, too. What How many flavors. you got? >> A lot, man. 15 plus. >> We got to narrow it down to the he to. the best ones, though, to really dial in. the catalog. But. >> if somebody wants to buy this, order it. Where's it at? >> Uh gorillamind.com. We're in uh GNC's, vitamin shops across. the country. We're going to be in Circle. K soon and soon to be more spots. hopefully. >> Congratulations on that. And uh for.

everything else that you do, gorillamind.com. >> Yeah. Yeah. And uh mehealth.com if you. want to get preventative medicine, expert oversight when it comes to. diagnostics, optimization, etc. >> All right, brother. Well, it's always. good to hang out with you. Very fun. >> Thanks for having me, man. >> My pleasure. My pleasure. And again, congratulations. This is legit. Thank. you. I'm going to buy it. All right. Bye, everybody. See you. >> [music].