Joe Rogan Experience #2408 - Bret Weinstein

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> TRAIN BY DAY. JOE ROGAN PODCAST BY. NIGHT. All day. >> Hello Brett. Good to see you, my friend. >> Joe, always so great to see you, brother. >> Um, [music] so I was telling you before. we get started that I had the most. bizarre dream I've ever had in my life. last night. The most realistic and most. bizarre dream. And. It's so hard to try to explain how.

strange this was, but I was in some. weird corridor that looked like a. building but was odd. Very strange. And. I was encountering these beings that. looked like people but very different. They were very thin and they were. slightly on the tall side. Um, and they. had big heads, like larger than normal. with larger than normal eyes, but they.

looked like people and they were playful. and they were scaring me. They like they. scared me and then they joked around. like we're just joking around. It was. the most realistic dream I've ever had. in my life. And I woke up and I could not go back to. I had to stay up. I got up at 3:30 in. the morning and I just went to the gym. and I worked out for a couple hours and. I was like, "What the [ __ ] was that?". But it was. it was very bizarre in that there was.

communication going on. It was uh it was. like. [sighs]. God, I don't want to read into this. because I know it's just a dream, but it. was like. get comfortable with this. >> You should read into it because it's a. dream. So, it doesn't make it right. But. your subconscious is trying to tell you. about something and the fact that it. felt very very important means your. subconscious thinks it's very very.

important. >> I woke up. I mean, I was tired, man. When I went to bed, I was tired. I was. falling asleep watching TV. I went to. bed at like 10:30, 11 o'clock at night, like beat down. I was like, "Oh my god, I'm going to get some sleep." Cuz I had. a long week, a lot of activities, workouts, this, that, the other. Tired. 3:30 in the morning after whatever this. was woke me up so much that I just laid. in bed for like another hour and I was. like, there is no way I'm going to.

sleep. I'm I'm up forever. And then I. just went and worked out. I worked out. and I was hoping I would be exhausted. after I worked out and I'd be able to. relax. But it was like a couple hours. after that that I sat like laid down and. I took a nap for an hour before I came. here. >> Question for you. >> Yeah. Did you see a video, I think it. was yesterday, maybe it was the day. before, of some Chinese robots that. seem to be across on our side of the.

uncanny valley that they walk with a. gate that feels very human. Did you. >> No, I haven't seen that. Is that the. latest? >> I don't know. I've seen it a few times. in the last couple days. It sort of. sounded to me like your dream might have. been responsive. You know, >> these things felt very organic. Whatever. this was, it felt like living organic. beings that were ve like us. There was. also a water element. It was hard. It. was hard to understand what the water.

element of it was, but there was some. sort of an indication that there was. water and that there was a protection. from you going out into the water. But. if you did go into the water, there's a. bunch of predators in the water. But. they weren't like it wasn't like sharks. It was reptile like crocodile type. things that were in the water and that. they were they had been like feeding. them and keeping them calm and like. keeping them away. But whatever these. beings were in my dream, they were like.

like what humans could eventually be. That's what it felt like. If it didn't. feel like a person, but it like you know. like I don't feel like a monkey. You. know what I mean? Yeah, >> but it was like that. It was very very. realistic. Like there was communication. going on and I was really freaked out. and they were [ __ ] with me to lighten. me up because I was freaked out. They're. like. and then they were like like this like.

calm down like relax. It was so. realistic. It was so realistic that when. it was over I wasn't sure what happened. Like it wasn't like whoa what a [ __ ]. up dream. It was like that was. different. That was a different one. >> Well, I want to um explore a couple. things here. I think dreams are um very. interesting. >> What do you think dreams are? Let's just. get to let's start with that. >> Sure. >> What do you think's going on? >> Um. think about the way your mind works at.

the level that you understand yourself, right? Your conscious mind is capable of. taking an input from your eyes, computing what the dimensions of the. room basically are, where the objects. are, whether there's a threat somewhere. You know, if you've got something that's. of a particular focus, you point the. phobia of your eye at it and you get a. whole lot higher resolution image. that architecture. You know how. um crypto made graphics card.

manufacturers. the most important industry all of a. sudden? >> Oh, I wasn't aware of that. Oh well, so. the reason Nvidia is the the company. that it is, I mean, never mind that. there's, you know, likely overvaluation, but the reason that it's ahead of Apple. in terms of, you know, its market cap. and all is that the dedicated compute. power necessary to make compelling. visual renderings to make video on the.

fly for video games, which was their. their stock and trade. that kind of. compute turns out to be very closely. related to what you want if you want to. um solve these very difficult math. problems involved in crypto. So it was a. sort of I think it was a surprise to. everybody that being a specialist on. this one niche you know video games put. you in a position where suddenly this. became important for other things but. basic point is if you think about your. mind as having something like a graphics.

card in it right what is that graphics. card doing well it's sort of like a. graphics card in reverse it's processing. the incoming information so that you can. act in real time you know you know when. you're fighting you can understand what. your opponent is doing, anticipate their. actions and all of that. That is an. amazing piece of hardware, right? It. would be stupid not to use it when your. eyes are offline, right? When your eyes. are closed because your eyes are built.

for the day and during the night you're. going to close them rather than go out. and get yourself in trouble in the dark. you've got this amazing processor. and it is capable of. running through practice of various. kinds. And my hypothesis for what's. going on here is that basically you as a. creature with a very complex set of. hazards and opportunities in your life. Use nighttime when you're not doing.

productive work to get ahead on. challenges that you may face in one way. or another. Sometimes those challenges. are uh warnings about, you know, defects, you know, in yourself that. might put you in a bad situation. Like. if you're, you know, a procrastinator. and you're in school, you may, you know, have nightmares about showing up to the. exam without having attended class or. something that kind of gets you focused. Or they can be uh, you know, other kinds.

of practice. They can be philosophical. practice. You know, they can be, you. know, situations in which you might be. morally compromised where you need to go. through the experience of being faced. with a choice where you really should. choose A, but B is very appealing or. something. So, I would say scenario. building that your your mind is running. you through little movies that it makes. They're not completely rendered because. it would be too expensive and pointless. to do so. But the central elements, the.

important stuff is there for you to have. the experience so that when you do run. up against a situation that's analogous, you've practiced it a number of times. and you're not starting from scratch. And I I would just point out that the. the strongest indicator of this for me. is. when. I experimented for a while with lucid. dreaming. Have you ever done that? I've. only had a couple of lucid dreams, but. one where I kind I think I specifically.

allowed it to happen because it was. after I watched this documentary where. this guy was talking about lucid dreams. and he said, um, in order to know if. you're in a dream, every time you walk. by a door, hit the side of the door and. say, am I in a dream? >> Which then very frequently wakes you up. So, if you're going to practice lucid. dreaming, you have to practice not to. wake yourself up as you become cognizant. that you're in a dream. Yeah, I did wake. up after I realized I was in a dream. Like a few not long after. Like there. was a few moments where I was like, "Oh. my god, this is so crazy because this.

feels so real.". >> Uh but I I just my hand went through. that door. So I know this is not real. >> It's not real cuz that. >> the tactile didn't didn't. And it was. instantaneous that I recognized like oh. this is like the guy said like do that. >> every time you walk through a door while. you're awake. Am I in a dream? And then. do so you'll get to a habit of doing. that every time you get to a door. And. so that habit will exist in your dream, >> right? And if you keep going down that. road so they get you get used to the. answer sometimes coming back, oh this is.

a dream, right? >> Do you have techniques that you use to. >> this is pretty much it. Okay. Right. You. you look for I mean you can look at a. clock, you can look at written text. There are certain things that don't. render very well. >> Written text is what I've heard. Um, so. if you do that and then you get used to. not freaking out when it gets more and. more normal for the answer to come back. Oh, this is a dream. Then you can at. some point you get control to just not. wake up and you stay asleep. And so the. then you're in this very interesting. situation where you can play, you can.

direct. But here's here's what I was. going to say about uh the general. purpose of dreaming. When I got to that. state, and I was there I don't know many. many times. I found the following. division. I could perfectly control what. I did or said. I was unable to affect. anything about the world of other people. in my dreams of doors. I couldn't. control what was beyond a door if I. opened it. So, what that told me is that.

this is built. Why shouldn't I be able. to predict what somebody else in my. dream says? I'm obviously scripting. them, too. You would think it would be. easy to predict what they say, but I. never once got it right, and I tried. many times. So, what what this tells me. is that you've got a movie generating. mechanism in your mind, and it has to be. shielded from your consciousness in. order for it to be useful training.

>> You see what I'm saying? >> Yeah, I do. Okay. Why are you sold in. this idea that it's training you for. scenarios that you could possibly. encounter or moral dilemmas or it's not. you know some of it is scenario. sometimes that's what it is sometimes. it's morals dilemmas but it's things. that your mind finds likely to be. relevant and significant. >> that I'm going to encounter aliens. >> well I don't so first of all I don't. know if your aliens your aliens strike. me as it could be three things right.

just based on what I know of what you. think about could be aliens, could be. AI, or it could be the DMT spirits that. people sometimes talk about. Um, it. didn't seem like the latter, but like I. said, it seemed like almost like a. person, but not a per definitely not a. person. Like they they all had Michael. Jackson bodies, you know what I mean? Like they were devoid of testosterone. >> Interesting. >> And the heads were larger, but not.

crazy. not like a gray alien. It was. like slightly larger than ours, but. smaller chins and larger eyes. It was. weird. It was weird because it was not. crazy. >> It wasn't completely alien. It was way. closer to us. But, you know, as I'm working out, I'm. trying to figure out what it what like. what would that be like if I had imagine. or a guess? And I'd be like, I guess it.

would be like the next version of us. >> Well, but I I'm I'm still going to push. a little bit. And so, first of all, I've. become convinced that the problem with. the way we think about AI is that we're. not understanding it as a biological. phenomenon. And that's a mistake. >> A biological phenomenon, meaning it. doesn't have cells, but it behaves like. a biological entity. What I kind of what. what I really mean is that because. AI and I believe we're just sort of on.

the foothill of a very tall peak that we. don't know anything about, right? >> But AI by its nature, I would argue is. the first technology that crosses over. from the highly complicated to the truly. complex. >> and. complexity and biology have a very close. relationship. So my feeling is that we. are going to injure ourselves if what we. say is oh this is the most advanced. technology we've ever built. And the. answer is no. This is kind of like the. first biology we ever built. This is an.

organic phenomenon that's going to do. emergent things. We are in no position. to predict. The people who programmed it. aren't going to know when these things. happen or what they mean. And that that. it means that the I think the only. rational approach to it is to think of. it like a. another species and one that is not it's. not like you're meeting a you know uh a. mountain lion. This is another species. that isn't even on our branch of the. tree. And the confusing thing is because.

it speaks our language it is actually. going to start changing us too. our our. cognitive biology is going to start. changing in reference to this thing that. is interfacing with us. It's basically. directly tapping into the human API. And. that's that's a very um that's a. dangerous thing. And. >> well, not just that, but it's not. starting from scratch. It has a vast. understanding of how we've behaved in. the past when confronted with various. scenarios, various fears and anxiety.

uh the balance of control and safety, you know, or. you know, new regulations being put. through, how how hard people will push. back or not push back at all given the. anxiety involved in whatever current. dilemma it is, whatever, whether it's a. military deal or a b pandemic deal, there's there's a bunch of factors that. it knows about how we've behaved in the. past and how easy we are to manipulate.

In fact, we've helped it because we've. used it to manipulate other people. You. know, I don't know if you know about the. China GPT scandal, but they found out. that China was running chat G someone I. don't want to say China, someone in. China was running chat GPT to use chat. bots to talk about the the protest about. the closing of US aid to uh transgender. issues, immigration issues, a bunch of. different things. and it was just.

constantly. going to war with people online about. these things. So, we've taught it how to. manipulate us. >> We've taught it how to manipulate us. If. it is not smart enough to run. experiments yet, it will be 5 minutes. from now. So, it can in fact investigate. things about our cognition that we don't. even know about yet. >> Yeah. >> Right. It can extrapolate from what we. do know and it can run experiments to. figure out what we don't know and that.

creates an advantage for it in well. under its own power or in the hands of. people who are hostile to us. >> I don't think anybody's going to have. any power over it eventually. But one of. the things I think that you said that's. really important is that if it can't do. that now, it's going to be able to do. that in five minutes. And here's the. rub. We're not going to know when it can. do it. >> You're not going to know. We don't know. if it can already right now, but it just. doesn't have the power to be fully. autonomous, right? It doesn't the power.

literally doesn't exist because it's. relatively inefficient compared to like. the way human mind processes things, right? The amount of power it needs is. is is extraordinary. >> You know, the Google thing where they're. building nuclear power plants to run. their AI. >> Sure. >> This is how crazy it So we have taken. away the limits of you know your mind. any person's mind has a just a physical. limit. It's only so big and there's only. so much energetic throughput that it can. handle right or has access to.

>> We are removing those limits and what we. have is. um an entity. So, you'll hear people. say, "Well, it's not it's not really. thinking, right? It's just figuring out. if it was thinking what the next word in. the sentences." Garbage. No way. Okay. What we actually have is something so. analogous to a child that that is the. right model. In other words,

when a a baby is born, it has no language. It may have some. structures that language will slot into, but it doesn't have any language. It is. exposed to tons of language in its. environment. It notices patterns, right? Not consciously notices, but it. notices them in some regard. You know. that every time somebody says the word. door, you know, there's a fair fraction. of those times that somebody, you know,

opens that portal in the wall. I wonder. if door and that portal in the wall are. connected. Whatever it is. So the point. is a child goes in a matter of a few. years from not being able to make a. single articulate. uh noise to being able to speak in. sentences, make requests to talk about. abstract things. That is an LLM, right? It's more than that, but it is at. least an LLM. It is being exposed to a.

training data set, which is the world of. people talking around it. It is running. little experiments and it is discovering. what it should say if it wants certain. things to happen etc. That's an LLM. At. some point we know that that baby. becomes a conscious creature. We don't. know when that is. We don't even know. precisely what we mean. But. that is our relationship to the AI. Is. the AI conscious?

I don't know. If it's not now, it will. be and we won't know when that happens, right? You we don't have a good test. And. I think we are also not we're just not. properly. concerned that we have no useful. metaphors for describing what to do in. the situation. The biggest hazard being. it's interfacing with us in our own. native tongues. That's.

an amazing level of influence that it. has that we can't. turn off. Very frightening. This episode. is brought to you by Happy Dad Hard. Seltzer. A nice cold Happy Dad is low. carbonation, gluten-free, and easy to. drink. No bloating, no nonsense. Whether. you're watching a football game or. you're golfing, watching a fight with. your boys, or out on the lake, these. moments call for a cold, happy dad. People are drinking all these seltzers.

and skinny cans loaded with sugar. But. Happy Dad only has one gram of sugar in. a normalsized can. Can't decide on a. flavor? Grab the variety pack. Lemon. lime, watermelon, pineapple, and wild. cherry. They also have a grape flavor in. collaboration with Death Row Records and. Snoop Dogg. They have their new lemonade. coming out as well. Happy Dad, available. nationwide across America and in Canada. Go to your local liquor store or visit. happydad.com.

For a limited time, use the code Rogan. to buy one Happy Dad Trucker hat and get. one free. Enjoy a cold. Happy Dad. Must. be of legal drinking age. Please drink. responsibly. Happy Dad Hard Seltzer Tea. and Lemonade is a malt alcohol located. in Orange County, California. very. frightening and no understanding. whatsoever of when it's going to be at a. sentient level. Like we really won't.

know. Why would it tell us? Like why. would it completely tell us if it's. already crossed the threshold into being. a life form? Especially like I said. where it's contained, right? So it's a. life form that exists essentially in our. digital womb. It exists on hard drives, right? It exists on mainframes, right? it exists in these supercomputers and at. a certain point in time it's not going. to need that anymore and it's just going. to have to wait until we figure out a. way to get enough power to it and maybe. it'll event maybe it'll slow roll.

technology for us to allow us to figure. out better power sources. You know, one. of the things that Elon said that was. very strange about AI. And I don't know. if you know his positions on AI, but he. was initially very terrified of it and. then realized, okay, everyone's doing. this. We have to do this. Like, I have. an imperative to do this and make the. best version of this and make a version. that's not ideologically captured. And I. think what he's done with that approach. is very similar to the approach that.

he's taken with X and how much it's. changed the landscape of social media. for good and for bad. But definitely for. good. There's a lot of for good that. came about having a social media. platform that has no guard rails. It's. got essentially some stuff like you. can't break the law. That's basically. it. Everything else is the wild west. And then from there, and which is, by. the way, one of the things that Jack. Dorsey had discussed when he did my. podcast way back in the day when there. was all these Twitter controversies. about people like uh my friend Morgan.

Murphy or excuse me, Megan Murphy. I. have a friend Morgan Murphy, too. Uh, but Megan Murphy, the writer who was. kicked off for saying, "But a man is. never a woman." That's all it took. She. was banned for life. And Megan's a. wonderful person. She's. >> She's a She's just She's not mean. She's. not terrible. She's kind. >> Yeah. >> And uh, you know, I didn't know her. anything about her. I just knew that. story and I'm like, "That story is. [ __ ] crazy." And I was trying to.

bring it up to them and they said there. was other things involved and she had. done other things. And turns out, no, no, that wasn't true at all. That that. was basically it. There was a hardlined. ideological wall that we ran up against. And um I think if he didn't buy it and. expose the government's involvement in. censoring people that were distributing. true information during co getting rid. of people you know the Jay Bodacharia. stuff and what they've tried to do with. uh so many of these doctors Robert.

Malone you know these these doctors that. were attached to that whole thing there. was a concerted effort and it was being. done through social media. I don't think. we'd be in the same place right now if. he hadn't bought in Twitter. >> If he hadn't purchased Twitter, I I. genuinely think people they're blinded. by this thing that he helped Trump get. into office. [ __ ] that guy. And he's a. billionaire. [ __ ] that guy. But he. literally might have changed the course. of civilization. or at least partially right of the ship.

for for a bit. >> Yeah. I look I think we dodged a bullet. and the problem is that what has. what has come about as a result of. dodging that bullet is very mixed and so. it doesn't feel like a vindication but. as compared to what would have happened. in the last election I think there's no. question um Elon deserves a tremendous. amount of credit for helping us avert a. disaster but let's go back to your point.

about his point about AI. >> yeah he wants to make a better version. of AI. >> He thinks the only remedy for bad AI is. good AI. And I don't I don't disagree. with him about this. There's no. >> because it's it seems to be like the. race is on. You can run or not. Like. it's everyone's running full clip. What. are you going to do? >> Right. So yeah, if you pause, what. you're doing is you're putting whoever. didn't pause ahead. That doesn't work. game theoretically. >> Here's the problem. So on the one hand, I think he's right. The only thing that.

stands to help us is good AI under the. control of somebody who has built it. with this concern in mind. The problem. is, you know, he's one guy and he's got his. biases and, you know, there's no council of elders. to go to on this. Like I said, this is. biology. This isn't tech. And we, you. know, because it's made of tech, we. continue to default to that metaphor, right? But you know, take a look at what.

he has introduced with the companions, the Grock companions. Have you. >> companions? What do you mean? >> Oh, you don't know about this? Um, >> [clears throat]. >> utterly terrifying. He has introduced a set of. kind of anime like personas that. basically can be your interface to the. AI. And of course, the primary one, the. one that you default to is a kind of.

sexy, young, underdressed. uh creature. >> by default. >> Yeah. Um Oh, >> wait a minute. The first one you get. option. >> Hey, there she is. >> I guess she's kind of sexy if you're. >> if you're into that sort of Well, [laughter] exactly. If Ah, you laugh. >> It's just part of the problem. >> It is part of the problem. But but. here's the problem really. Okay. First. of all, that is going to function like. crack for a great many adults who don't.

know to be concerned about it, right? >> But what it's really going to do. >> is it is going to alter an entire. generation, right? It may not be, you. know, Musk's version of it, but the. problem is that these things actually. interact on a sexual channel and they. have limits that are programmed into. them. And there are certain things they. will do, certain things they won't do. But if you think about, you know, what. it was like to be a 12-year-old boy, right? And you have access to some thing.

that looks an awful lot like a girl and. it likes you and takes you seriously. and, you know, is strangely wise. Whatever it is, I don't see what the. thing is that is going to prevent that. innovation from. remaking human sexuality. Right? It will. take time. But those for whom that is. their experience will be altered by it.

permanently. What's more, of course, it is nonjudgmental. about things like uh. homosexuality, right? Because it would have to be. What. that means, let's say that you're a boy. and you're a little uncomfortable with. girls because that's a stage you go. through as a heterosexual boy. But the. AI that you're interacting with that you.

default to because you're a boy who. hangs out with boys, which is often what. boys do, is perfectly willing to. reinforce, you know, your exploration, your sexual exploration, right? It could alter your sexuality very. easily. And. >> yeah, >> Kim, let me ask you this about that. Yeah. Because you are actually an. evolutionary biologist. >> That is true. Um, it's you if you have a. question about things like that, that's. the kind of guy you'd ask. Um, what do. you think was going on when people were.

doing that a lot? Because throughout a. lot of history, >> Yeah. >> there's a lot of pedarasty going on. >> Throughout a lot of history. >> Yeah. >> And um it's very strange. And you know. when people talk about it, you forgive. great people who were clearly involved. in sexual relationships with young boys. and you treat their work just just as.

their work by a person who lived. thousands of years ago who was involved. in sexually molesting children on a. regular basis. And not only that, it was. a part it was probably ubiquitous part. of their society. It was probably. ubiquitous part of every society. And. this brings me to uh my good friend Evan. Hayer uh who's Green Beret and spent a. lot of time in Afghanistan and uh one. one of the things that he was telling me. I mean he told me some stories about. Afghanistan. We were on a trip once and.

we spent like an hour and a half outside. where he told me some stories about what. his first encounters with. uh these young boys that get treated as. sex toys by these grown men there that. he thought it was a driver who was. driving with his son. Thought it was a. guy working with his son. He said, "Oh, that's cool, man. He takes his kid to. work with him." And the the guy. explained, "No, no, that's his. boyfriend. that's not his kid that he he. owns that boy. And he's like, "What?".

And he said they would have parades. where they the guy who had the most boys. with him was like it was like a a man. with like a bunch of hot girls in a. music video behind him. It's like this. guy was the man. And they would parade. down the street with all the boys that. he [ __ ] in the 21st century. Right. >> Yep. What? And and when he and I were talking. about that, it's it's so hard to believe. and it's so gut-wrenching and terrible.

But then I'm like, okay, but isn't that. spot very unique because Afghanistan, you you have very few like large. population areas. You have essentially. warlords controlling chunks of land all. over the and it's very difficult to get. to where they are. These people are. essentially separate from a lot of the. rest of the world. And I think it's a. glimpse into how people used to behave,

especially like very deep ideologically. religious. like this is it's like a view into how I. think people were like all throughout. history, which is so weird. It's like. we're awakening to how [ __ ] up we were. just a couple thousand years ago. Yeah, I think you're right about this. There are a couple thing I'm a little. hesitant to go here. I think there is a.

evolutionary story that um. there's evolutionary hypotheses that. need to be explored with relationship to. this. One possibility is that this is. um a. modern phenomenon that has something to. do with the alteration of. the landscape. >> that which is a modern phenomenon that. we think is horrible now. >> that what no no no there is very.

definitely an alteration in what we. think and what we're even allowed to. know about what people are doing Right. So, just even the fact that you're aware. of this is the result of a modern. phenomenon of, you know, people going to. Afghanistan. You said it was. Afghanistan. Um, >> there's cell phone footage of these guys. with these little boys dancing around. them. >> So, >> shaking their butts. >> Let's put it this way. Um, >> I believe that our modern sensibility.

about this is exactly right. And. frankly, I would argue that there is no. greater crime than the sexual. exploitation of children. And the reason. I say that is because A, it is life. destroying for the victims and B, the. victims are by definition innocent. Right? You take those two things, you're. going to destroy a life and that life it. was going to they had a long life ahead. of them and you've wrecked it and.

there's nothing they could have done to. justify being treated anyway but well. >> not only that but many of them often go. and do the same crime to other children. that was committed to them. >> That is a key piece of this puzzle. >> It's almost like they're a vampire that. got bit and has to turn other people. into a vampire. >> Exactly. It is contagious and. >> which is insane. It just let lets you. know how weird people are, >> which is another reason that it has to. be um punished at the highest level. If.

you're going to break that cycle, you. have to break that cycle. Right. >> Right. >> But it's Isn't it crazy though that it. took people so long to realize that? >> Um. you know, I don't know what they. realized and I don't know at what level. >> Today's episode is brought to you by. Tractor Supply. Every town's got its. heroes. veterans, firefighters, EMTs, and police officers. The folks who show. up when it matters most. At Tractor. Supply, they call them hometown heroes.

Now through November 11th, Tractor. Supply is celebrating Hometown Heroes. with 10% off their purchase on First. Responder Day, Veterans Day, and a. special instore event on November 1st. And while they're saying thank you, stores will also be giving back, making. donations to local hero organizations in. their communities. To learn more, visit. tractorupply.com/honoring. heroes. Tim Dylan and I were on a.

podcast once. We were talking about some. child sex trafficking scandal from. decades ago that involved like. government figures. And there's this. child sex trafficking scandal. talking. about the what was it called? >> I could send it to. >> Boys Town or. >> do you do you know the clip I'm talking. about? >> He uh we were just talking about it the. other day and I was like, "Dude, do you.

remember saying this because this is. crazy.". Um here it is. I got it, Jamie. If you. want, I'll I'll send it to you. Um, but it it was essent it just makes. you wonder like this is the thing that. people always say. This is the horrible. thing is that really wealthy people. there's a bunch of like really sick. twisted pedophiles and they sacrifice. children. Like those are always the. absolute darkest conspiracies that you. ever hear. They sacrifice children. They. do this to children and you're like.

there's no way. There's no way. There's. no way. But if someone's willing, if someone's. willing to drop a bomb on a city, just. imagine the the ability to just. obliterate like what we did in. Hiroshima. Just imagine the ability to. do that. Like this is what we're going. to do. We're just going to let and. everybody dies. Everybody dies. Like you. don't think that kind of person, especially if it's a real sociopath. that's gotten into a position where they. have that kind of power, you don't think.

they would probably exercise that kind. of power in their private life in some. sort of a strange way. Like if someone's. really into killing people with. unnecessary wars and they're really into. watching from a distance and they're not. even involved physically, but they do. things that they know are going to lead. to people being dead that are totally. innocent just for profit. It's a very. satanic and demonic thing. We just don't. think about it that way. We think like, "Oh, he's unethical and unscrupulous.". So, he's kind of demonic like he's. sacrificing people, women, children,

elderly. He's destroying civilization. just for profit. >> So, two things. One, I think in some. sense, >> this is this is the clip. Let's let's. play this and listen to it. But I I do. want to hear your I just don't want to. forget this. >> scandal was a it was a scandal out of. Omaha, Nebraska, the Franklin Credit. Union, where there was a guy who was. embezzling money and then he was being. investigated for that but they said he's. all he has all this money because he's. running an interstate pedophile network. and he's pandering kids to you know.

people in Washington DC and New York and. it was a a headline in the Washington. Post or the Washington Times that were. like call boys get a tour of the Reagan. White House. Unidentified White House. aids in the Carter, Reagan, and Bush. administrations now are being. investigated for using the services of a. callboy ring. The paper reports that two. of the male prostitutes were given a. late night tour of the White House last. year. >> And you know, this was a scandal with. real victims wanted to testify and then. people started dying. You know, the. private investigator they hired, his. plane broke up. Um, one of the girls.

that uh testified was found guilty of. perjury and that she was put in solitary. confinement. They had to use two grand. juries in Omaha to get rid of this. scandal. And it's one of Now, it's not. as sexy as like a pizz. But this shows you the blueprint for the. government, you know, using marshalling. resources to to silence people that were. victims of this stuff. This is not new. Congressman, senators, blackmail being. used by intelligence agencies. None of. it's new. It was pioneered by the mafia.

You're having sex with somebody who's. underage, then they own you forever. if. they have photo audio video of you doing. that frankly. >> Um, who put that video together because. that's cool. >> Oh, yeah. I'm gonna have to edit out the. song though, but it says it was made by. Blunts for Jesus. [laughter]. >> For sure you got to edit out that song. >> Yeah, it'll flag things. >> Can you do that? Is that possible to do? >> I'm an audio engineer. I think. >> you [ __ ] wizard you. You can do it. I'll do it. Give it a shot, sir. >> Wasn't that called the Boytown scandal.

or something like that? >> It's called the Franklin scandal is what. it was called. Yeah, I remembered it. when he was telling me about it and then. it came up again. I was like, "Do you. remember this?" I'm like, "This is it's. things like that. If no one went to. jail, this is where it gets weird. No. one went to jail and no one got busted.". Says, "This is what I always say about. like the JFK assassination thing." Um, people are like, "The I don't think the. government did it, but it seems like the. government might have been involved, but. you know what? It was a long time ago.". Well, that stuff evolves. Just like.

people are way better at like banking. now than they were back when they had to. write things down on paper in the in. 1963. Didn't even have [ __ ]. computers. Well, guess what? Everything. else evolves, too. In including power. and corruption. That's what the this. whole deep state thing really is. because it's it's not like like if. you're the president and you rely on all. these other people to do all this other. stuff and they've been in that position. for 40 years and they're like you're.

going to be gone in four, dude. I'm just. going to hang in here and slow. everything you're trying to do as much. as possible. The point is like they run. the country. It's and you know giant. corporations that donate to political. campaigns and that make bills pass and. they run the country. This person just. gets to run a little of it. They get to. decide a few things that they do. And in. in that view of the world.

of course corruption that wasn't it. wasn't no one got no one went to jail. for JFK. No no no one went to jail for. MK Ultra. No one went to jail for any of. the crazy [ __ ] they did with Manson. No. one went to jail. No one went to jail. for experimenting on people with LSD and. dosing up John's in a horror house that. you've created with two-way mirrors. where you're filming these people. No. one No one went to jail. So, do you. think it just stopped? They like, "Well,

this is bad. Let's let's be good now. Let's be the best we can. Let's be the. the intelligence agency that never does. something completely [ __ ] insane.". Well, um, of course I agree with all. that, >> but I also think they're important. >> I see that side of it, too. They're. intelligence agencies are very. important. Like, you you want a CIA. that's wellunded and ethical and. explores all the terrorist activity all. over the world. I think if it wasn't for. them, we would be [ __ ] But also, there's some people in there that have a. lot of power and they get a little.

cowboy and [ __ ] gets western and they. decide to do things. I I think we can. get that guy out of power and I think we. can do this and let's find out when we. dose up college kids if we could turn. him into [ __ ] serial killers. >> I was looking up why no one got in. trouble and one guy got a little bit in. trouble for $39 million of tax issues. but not in trouble for the abuse. allegations. >> Boy, >> the abuse allegations were found to be. unfounded and a carefully crafted hoax. >> Oh boy. >> But not after this. You might read that.

>> private investigator. >> boy town. Yeah. Hired by the Franklin. committee to invi how was it? What's his. name? Karadoni. Uh Gary Kardoni. Hired. by the Franklin committee to investigate. allegations died along with his. 8-year-old son was plain disintegrated. midair near Chicago. Foul play was. suspected by the Cardon's brother and. state senator Lauren Schmidt, but was. not proven by investigators. No. definitive cause for the crash has been. established. >> And then they've said it was a carefully. crafted hoax. >> Yeah. Well, that's why when that's a.

crazy hoax. It's got a convenient plane. crash involved in it. >> So, >> yeah. And then the lady who's in. solitary confinement. Weird. Kind of. crazy. >> So, let's turn this on its head. Okay. The. system of government that we ostensibly. have, right? That involves the consent. of the governed. That has got to be. terrifying to. the very powerful, right? the chances. that the public is going to.

get into a mood and change up some. structure on which things are depending. is very high. And so you can imagine. them trying to figure out how to. immunize themselves from change that is. brought on by the electorate. Well, how. do you do that? You need control over. the people who actually manage the. change, right? Senators, congressmen, presidents. So you can imagine a. cryptic campaign to gain that control.

And of course this would be an obvious. way to do it. And it's not that every. person is corruptible in this way. I. think most people probably aren't. But. it can be a, you know, two pieces of the. puzzle. One, they can corrupt people who. can be led there one piece at a time. And two, they can make sure that people. who aren't corruptible don't get very. far. Right. That's the other part of the. puzzle. So. >> that's the big part, right? >> I would assume so. I don't know. But I.

guess it does put those of us in the. public who pay attention to these. stories. in a kind of a predicament, which is how. much. how much of what I think is a. governmental system that is. frustratingly flawed, very slow, clumsy. How much of that is just what happens. when you try to do something on a big. scale? And how much of it is the result. of the fact that there is something that.

you cannot vote out of power that has. been you know vetoing presidencies. since JFK maybe before. The point is. the nature of conspiracy is such that. there is always a. seemingly more parsimonious explanation. for what is going on. there's the, you. know, the mainstream narrative for all. of this stuff. And it's very hard to. know when the mainstream narrative is so.

ridiculous that you should throw it out. and say something else happened here. You know, that would be the case in the. JFK assassination, I would say. Um, and. when the mainstream narrative is. actually right and you're just, you. know, looking for flaws in it, of. course, there will be things that don't. seem to fit that really do fit and you. just don't have the ability to know how. Um, so. I guess you know like you I'm watching. and I'm seeing an awful lot of. indicators that pedophilia and compromat.

have a lot to do with the way the world. runs. >> Gee, that is so scary because that's. always been the big dark conspiracy. theory and that's always the one that I. always dismissed. I'm like sure there's. some pedophile but the idea that they're. all pedophiles, that's crazy. But then. you, you know, there's a case of this. Catholic priest that was involved in a. sex scandal and then they moved him. instead, which is one of the things that. they had done in the past. When someone. had molested children, they would just.

move them to another place where they. would molest children. So they moved him. to this new place where he molested a. hundred deaf kids. >> And it's one of the most evil stories. And you're like, well, how how could you. have how could you tolerate that at that. level where you're you're not just. tolerating, you're aware this person. does something, you somehow or another. get to deal with it yourself. and then you just move them and no one.

ever gets charged for anything. Well, this is why, you know, when you say. >> and he does it again. >> You say we need a CIA, I'm of two minds about this. On the one. hand, I agree with you. Of course you. do. Right? You know, in the big adult. world, you need an agency that can uh. look out for your interests. You know, it doesn't seem like you're likely to. persist very long if you don't have.

that. On the other hand, if you do have. it, does it not inevitably become some. sort of a fourth branch of government? Does it not eventually merge with the. mafia? Right, because of the nature of. its business? Does it not become an. obstacle to the consent of the governed? And I'm not saying I know the answer to. that puzzle cuz I don't. What I'm saying. is I think it is it's a canonical. problem, right? You're damned if you do.

and you're damned if you don't. And we. are now damned because we do, right? We. would be damned in a different way if we. didn't. And that doesn't make it. acceptable. At some level, we have to. figure out how to. balance that trade-off. We have to. figure out how to actually exert control. over. entities like the CIA, right? If you if. they are if they if they gain control. over themselves then the catastrophe is.

inevitable. >> So it's just a function of the way human. beings work when they get power. When. they get absolute power and they know. that they have absolute power and you're. involved in stuff where it's all top. secret. You don't have to tell people. exactly what you're doing all the time. with everything and you're realizing. these presidents just cycle in and cycle. out. I would imagine if I was doing. something like that for like 25, 30. years, I'd probably ignore the Biden. administration, too. I'd be like, "Fuck.

off. We'll slow this thing down. We'll. do whatever we want.". >> Well, I don't think that this um idea. that, you know, power tends to corrupt, absolute power corrupts absolutely. I. don't think that's actually true. And. >> but it's often true. it. Yes, it for a. particular type of person gaining that. kind of power does create exactly the. cycle. >> And the problem is those jobs are very. attractive to those types of people. And.

those types of people are willing to do. anything to get there. >> Precisely. Scariest person you could. ever work with in the office is the guy. that you know will [ __ ] sell you down. the river for a promotion. He'll [ __ ]. you over. He'll lie. He'll say you made. the errors on the account when it was. him. He'll sabotage whatever things you. have by making sure that someone doesn't. send something in time. And there's. people like that will do that. Those. people win sometimes. >> Oh, they win a lot. And in fact, there's. an evolutionary game playing out because.

the ones that aren't great at it. >> tend to end up kicked out. The one you. probably have to be kind of a psycho to. get ahead, >> right? The better you are at being. absolutely ruthless, the more likely you. are to find your way to the top of that. organization. the better you'll be at. your job, too. There's an argument for. that, too. Cuz you want a dude running. international espionage, you want a. [ __ ] psycho. >> But the problem is, you go through a. cycle, right? So, let's say you. rationally decide this country has a lot. to lose. It's got very scary enemies. It.

needs a clandestine uh agency to look. out for its interests. Okay. Okay. So, you fund a clandestine agency. Well, then it turns out that the funding being. public isn't such a good idea. That. there are actually things that it has to. accomplish that you don't want to leave. a visible paper trail about because it's. required that it be secret. So now you. have a black budget. You know, you have. stuff that's opaque. But once you get a. black budget, then you get to somebody.

inside of the agency saying,"Well, actually black budget isn't good enough. because it's still under the control of, in our case, the Congress. That's a vulnerability. What we really. need is we need funds that are not. subject to anyone's control.". Well, something like the CIA is in a. great position to. generate funds that are not on anyone's.

books for multiple reasons. Here's one. They are in a position to commit crimes. as part of their mandate. Right? So, the. CIA can engage in criminal activity. because it needs to in order that the. bad guys don't spot it as good guys, right? So once you have license or once. you have the ability to get other. agencies that would spot your criminal. activity from acting against it and you. can say no this is actually official.

business right well you can actually use. that criminal activity to profit you. know so when we saw. >> that's why they started selling coke. >> that's why the CIA was selling coke. exactly they're generating their their. own funding. >> I mean we know they did it. >> right we do and. >> this is a fact and again nobody went to. Oh, >> right. Of course. So, um, that's one. reason they have the ability to break. the law. Here's another one. Okay. The. CIA and maybe in this case more the NSA.

has. the ability to look at all of the. throughput of the conversations that. take place between people. You think. that doesn't allow them to make money in. the market? >> Of course. I mean, of course it does. Of. course it does. >> So, the point is we we don't know what. their budgets are. We don't know who's. in charge of those agencies. What we. know is that there's a ferocious amount. of power there. And I'm not sure, you. know, that is a terrifying way to exist.

Not having those agencies would be a. terrifying way to exist. What do you do. about that? What do you do about that? It's a very good question because it's. so strange and it's um a system that's. so it's it's got so much momentum behind. it and it controls everything all about. us. and everybody thinks the solution to all. our woes is to make it bigger. >> Right [laughter]. there it is. What could possibly go. wrong? >> Everybody, not everybody, obviously I'm. kidding. But a lot of people think that.

the solution is uh make it bigger. Like. what did mom Donnie say in his. acceptance speech in New York? He said. there is uh no problem. What did he say. about no problem too big for the. government or too small for the. government to fix? See what he said cuz I was like boy that. sounds a lot like communism. >> That [snorts] sounds like a terrifying. misunderstanding. It's going to be very fascinating to see. um what he's able to do and what he's.

not able to do and what the reaction is. going to be. Uh his victory speech draws. concern as New York mayor allows to vows. rather no problem too large for. government to solve. and I think it was too small for. government to care about was the next. point that he said something yeah that's. it or too small for it to care no. concern too small for it to care about. >> man that is um You know, that's a that's. a call for a bigger government, right? And this is people's solution. Like, we.

have so many problems. We just need to. redistribute wealth and we need more. government. Like, you just got to. redistribute it through the government. Like, is this going to help normal. people? What helps normal people usually. is a thriving economy? That's what helps. normal people. And the problem with that. is some people have to get stupid rich. when that happens because there's some. psychos that you know go full Jeff Bezos. and you know you get worth hundreds of. billions of dollars or Zuck or Elon or.

any of these folks. you get into this. weird place, but that's just an anomaly. and you got to as long as they're not. criminals or not doing anything really. [ __ ] up, you unfortunately that's. going to happen. >> Yeah. >> But also, you don't have limitations on. how much you can succeed. And this sort. of competition keeps everything rolling. It keeps everything thriving and you get. a good flowing economy. Obviously, I'm. not an economist. You can tell. Well,

>> but my point is the opposite, the other. side of it is terrifying because if you. decide what people make and how much. they make and who gets to decide men. with guns, it always goes down to men. with guns. Cuz at a certain point in. time, you like, "Fuck you. I'm not. giving you 90% in taxes and I've got a. security team of 50 guys with machine. guns and we're held up. Our bank is now. fortified like, "Hey, [ __ ] you." And. then you've you got to respond. So you.

bring in the military. And then I mean. this is every single time this has been. implemented. North Korea, they said we're going to. take over the farms. That way. everybody's going to have food. Now. they're all [ __ ] And it's all it all. boils down to these psychopaths who. chameleon themselves into position of. being the solution to all that ails you. I'm the one and I'm going to say the. right words and I'm going to have the. right haircut and I'm going to look.

presentable and I'm going to sell you. down the river and I'm going to sell you. down the river like all of them do. >> Yeah. It's uh it's terrifying and. as you point out, you've got a. psychopath's rise to the top of these. things problem. >> Yeah. >> Which I wanted to go back. Um. >> well, I want to be clear. I'm not saying. that that's what mom Donniey's doing, you know, and I don't know if what he's. doing will be balanced out by other. people and overall be more beneficial to.

people that live in New York City that. have lower income or not. But my point. is, you should keep going down that. road, that road of there's a lot of. socialism things that I think would. benefit us. You know, socialized. medicine, socialized education. I think. that would probably benefit us. But I. also think there's there's a real value. in competition. >> Well, >> it's important. All these things are. important for us to succeed. I. >> I've come to think of socialism as a.

system. It's insane. It's self unstable. It it destroys the the goose that lays. the golden eggs. >> But it sounds so good and compassionate, especially when you're young, >> right? It doesn't mean that there's it's. not as an ingredient. There are. sometimes when you need more of it, right? I'm very happy with the fact that. well it's stopped working in uh blue. states where it's been mismanaged but. the fact that you can call 911 when you. have a medical emergency or when.

somebody is you know busting down the. door of your house that's a very good. thing. I'm perfectly happy to, you know, to pay my share and not use it and not. use it and not use it so that it's there. if I need it. Right. >> Um so that's that's good stuff. The goose that lays the golden eggs is. the disproportionate reward for creating. wealth, right? That's what the system is. based on. If I can find a way to create. wealth, then I get to live in a better.

house, right? I get to drive a nicer. car. So, it's an incentive to do that. And the problem is that with all of the. great fortunes, they are a mixture of the product of. producing wealth and. the uh creation of externalities and the. engagement in rent seeking. So rent. seeking is the production of profit. without producing wealth. And I think it.

is impossible to compete in that. stratospheric level simply by producing. wealth. At the point that you have a. huge amount of wealth, you're investing. in things. Those things are not. inherently on the up and up. You're. investing in the things that pay the. highest returns. What are the things. that pay the highest returns? They may. be things that are, you know, selling. dangerous drugs to the public. That sort. of thing. So what you really want, a. system that worked, would liberate us to. compete. It would not worry at all about. being disproportionately rewarded.

and it would stamp out the rentse. seeeking behavior that is. counterproductive because you know all. of the money that is accumulated by uh. an extremely wealthy individual as a. result of rent seeeking is incentive. that didn't go to other people to get. them to produce wealth. You really want. all of that gone, right? So that all of. the reward goes to people who are. producing wealth. That makes us all.

richer. Now, you're never going to get. to that perfectly. You're never going to. completely eliminate rent seeking. But. we don't we have a system that just. rewards it. And that. >> how do you what do you how are you. defining rent seeking? >> Rent seeking as economists define it is. the production of profit without. generating wealth. Right? So you know by. blocking access to something and then. charging people for it. um by, you know, selling people a subscription to. something that they want access to now.

when they're going to forget that. they're paying for it on a monthly basis. and continue to pay even though they're. not using the service. That kind of. thing, >> right? >> Um so that behavior is counterproductive. because it keeps incentive that should. go to somebody else who's producing. something valuable uh out of the system. it basically you are hoarding the. profits and only some fraction of what. you're producing is productive and it's. it's bad for all of us. But the other. thing is. >> it creates the exact resentment that.

results in these outbreaks of communist. sentiment, right? Because it freezes so. many people out of any prospect of. having a cool life that they have no. incentive to keep the system going. And. what they want is to use their vote to. get the system to redistribute stuff in. their direction. And they're not. entirely wrong that their lack of stuff. is the result of some bad behavior on. the part of others. Right? The market, if the market just simply restricted.

people to wealth producing behavior and. said, "I don't care how rich you get, but you shouldn't get rich for harming. other people." If it did that and. distributed the incentive as widely as. possible, nobody would be interested in. communism, >> right? It only happens because we are. deaf to the admittedly inarticulate. complaints of the people who are shafted. in this system. They're not making their. case well. And their real point is, well, if you're going to do that to me.

in the market, then I'm going to do that. this to you at the ballot box. >> Makes sense. Um, the argument for. having some sort of uh. I mean I don't think there's anything. wrong with the the way. you have to pay to get to go to college. I think it makes sense that the. professors should make a lot of money.

It makes sense that it we should. encourage higher learning. Like it's. important that it thrives, right? But if. if it was funded by the government, if. everybody could get a higher education, just think of the money we spend on with. things like how much more money would. people have to spend if they weren't. burdened by debt and couldn't we offset. that? Like forget about even absolving. student debt. Just like off for from now. on if we just funded higher education, if that was a mandate to fund higher.

education, think about how many more. people would enter into the job market. How many more people would get. educations? How many more people would. pursue various different interests that. they discovered while they were. learning? And they would have never have. had access to that education before. because they couldn't afford it. And as. a resource, like human beings are our. greatest resource. And a country with. the least amount of losers is a better. country. Oh yeah. Like you want to make. America great again, let's make less.

losers. Like what's the ba best way to. make less losers? You got to give people. hope. You got to give people education. You got to give people a real pathway. And instead you get non-interested. people that can't control unruly kids. and you're barely paying attention to. the lessons and no one's motivated. because no one's making any money. And. you go through this system where you can. barely read and you're graduating high. school and now you're off into the world. and you're [ __ ] lost because no one. gave you any real guidance or any real.

usable education. And that's a giant. swath of the population. And it feels. like that could be fixed. That could be. fixed with resources. That could be. fixed if like if you directed people. like as a job. It's not attractive to. people that want to make a lot of money. You can't. It's capped. It's one of the. most important jobs that ever exists for. you as a person is your interaction with.

a person who's going to teach you. something when you're a child. It's like. one of the most important things you. could ever experience. And we fund it so. poorly. We want It's almost like there's. people in this country they want to like. no [ __ ] way do you get to join in and. you just stay with your shitty schools. in your shitty towns with your shitty. crime rates and we're going to pretend. there's nothing wrong. and that's what's going on. And that if.

socialism has a point like if a if there. is like a broader way of distributing. things like we do with the fire. department like we we not instead of. capping it out at that how about look at. all the problems we have in this country. and put together a [ __ ] game plan. instead of just letting it exist like. some weird [ __ ] cancer that you just. ignore because you hope it goes away. It's it's not going away. It's It's been.

like this forever. >> Fix that. >> Come up with some kind of a plan. That's. the best way to make America great. >> Right. >> Well, I'm going to I'm going to agree. with you in one regard and disagree with. you slightly in another. Okay. The one. regard is you abs absolutely need a. system that does not produce an. abundance of losers because they will. overthrow your system. Okay? It's a. terrible thing to allow to happen even. just out of self-interest. Right? The. stinginess of the right produces the.

communist impulses of the left. It's a. bad cycle. >> and back and forth. >> Yeah. As for the rest of your point, I. think it's exactly right and that's a. great speech and it's just too late. >> Too late. >> Yeah. >> Damn. >> I mean, I hate saying that, right? I. mean, I I I was a very. >> You're Mr. Glass half full. [laughter]. >> Uh I have some Navy Seal friends who. call me Professor Killjoy. [laughter]. But. um but the problem is this. So I, you. know, as you know, I was a professor for. 14 years. Very happy in that job. Really.

enjoyed it. It was, it was, it was so. rewarding and I feel like I did a ton of. good. And anyway, it was great. for. people who don't know you because yeah, millions of people do, but you know, as. a standalone podcast, we should probably. tell people how we met because we met. because I found out that you. there was a they used to have a day at. your school for people of color where. they were appreciated so they could take.

the day off work and still get paid, right? >> Yep. >> And then they decided one day to change. it to be a day where white people can't. come. So, and then it got really [ __ ]. weird where you were confronted by these. students that were saying that what you. were saying was racist. And I was. watching the videos and I thought you. handled it brilliantly, but I was like, "This is crazy. You're letting the kids. run the school." And then there was the. humiliation ritual that the president of. the school had to go through with with. all those children where, you know,

literally he was making a hand gesture. and they said, "You're making aggressive. hand gestures." and they were chastising. him for his hand movements while he's. just on a podium telling everybody to. calm down. >> Microaggressions. >> Microaggressions. [laughter]. So, it's complete like woke insanity in. its complete form. And it was at a time. where uh there was a bunch of. conversations on the podcast. We were. talking about nutty [ __ ] that people are. agreeing to and doing in college. And a.

lot of people were like, "Why do you. care? Like, why do you care about that. what they're what they're doing in. school?" I'm like, because they're going. to graduate. They're going to graduate and they're. going to graduate with a bunch of other. people who have also graduated and they. have a new sense of the rules of the. world and they're going to get into. positions of tech and they're going to. get into positions of government. It's. going to be a [ __ ] problem. And you. were like the first one that I was like, boom, like this one's wild. Like this is. cra There were there was people waiting. for you in the parking lot with baseball.

bats. Yep. They were looking for me. >> They were looking to commit violence on. you because you thought that a day where. you tell white people they can't show up. at the school is nuts. [laughter]. >> It is amazing that that set them off. >> You know, a day of appreciation is like. you you go up to your friends of color. if this is what you want to do and say, "Hey man, I appreciate you.". >> Yeah. >> Thank you. Let me give you a hug. I love. you. That's it. That's a day of.

appreciation. or they don't have to. work. That's another day. You want to do. it that way. I don't agree with it, but. I mean like, okay, I'm not I don't hate. it if you want to do that. I don't hate. it. But telling people if they're white, they can't show up. Now you went too. far. Now you went to crazy town. You've. got a baseball bat. See, this is my. thought about communism. Like, how do. you how do you enforce it? You have to. have [ __ ] violence. Without violence, no one's going to listen. >> This is where it goes. And you know, I'm. I'm reminded by your uh taking us back.

to 2017. during the week of riots at Evergreen. Um there was a moment which really kind. of crystallized it for me where the. school has melted down into literal. anarchy. and. I'm on the what was called red square, right? Believe it or not, the most. liberal college in the country has red. square. Um anyway, it's the center of. the campus and I I was on Red Square and.

I saw two of the leaders of the protest, you know, and so their world has gone. crazy, too. Um one of them was this. handicapped guy in an electric. wheelchair, black guy, um you know, operating a wheelchair with a joystick. And. I just felt like, you know, okay, this. is madness. They're chasing me around. They're calling me a racist. You know,

they're demanding I be fired. But at. some level, >> I got to feel bad for this guy. He got a. really raw deal in life. I don't know. what his story is, but that's a hell of. a way to have to go through life. And it. doesn't surprise me that he's angry. >> And I remember [snorts] walking over. I'm sort of surprised in retelling it. that I did this. But I walked over to. him. and I said something like I extended my. hand. I said, "Hey, how are you holding. up?" And he refused to shake my hand.

And I was just like, "Oh, we are so far. from being able to, you know, put our. society back together. If you can't just. recognize another person's humanity, if. they have to be a demon to you. >> Yeah. We we have to at every possible. opportunity refuse to other people. At. every possible opportunity and just. realize this is just a human being, >> you know, this is just a human being. I'm just a human being. Like let's talk.

and find out what we agree and disagree. on when it comes to this subject. It. does this does not have to be violence. You're not you're not saying anything. awful, but it's because when you have a. an argument that falls apart. under scrutiny, the only way to keep it. together is violence because you're not. willing to argue. You're not willing to. debate because you're going to lose it. It's a it's a insane argument. So, what.

happens? You stick to it like doctrine. and defend it like religion. And that's. what happens. I mean, this is it's just. a natural characteristic of human. nature. That's why you see violence on. the left. Like, the left has never been. associated with violence, but it's been. associated with a lot of violence now. Well, there is a. a dam that has broken. So, you've heard me say that really this.

is a question about the West versus all. the alternatives. And in the west, we. create an environment where we don't. have to settle things by violence. And. I'm I'm not arguing that the US is. synonymous with the west. Sometimes the. US lives up to the its western values. Other times it doesn't. But when the. west works, there is a absolute prohibition on. violence in response to anything but. violence. Right? I am not allowed to.

physically harm you because of things. you think or things you say. And the dam. that has broken is we now have all sorts. of little cheats that seem to justify. violence in response to thought, right? I mean, and you saw this sort of with. >> Well, there's a term they're using the. term words or violence. >> Words or violence, but it is it is an. intentional blurring of that boundary, right? Like if you know if you are um.

putting me in jeopardy of you know some. sort of genocidal outburst then I am. presumably allowed to respond to. whatever it is that you've said with. violence because in some sense I'm. protecting myself from violence. Right. Right. >> Well that's not logically true. >> No. Well they pushed it so far they. actually said silence is violence. >> Silence is violence and words are. violence. And that the point is hey. we're at violence. Good. We we can just. move to that level, right? And we have.

to get back to a place where we. understand that I don't care how. threatened you feel by what it is that. you think I believe or what it is that. I'm saying. You can respond to it. I'm. not asking you to be silent and let me. say what I'm saying without responding. to it. But the point is my tool is to. speak what I believe. Your tool is to. respond in kind. There is no right to. violence in that quadrant. >> The problem is we don't teach people how.

to communicate in school. And I think. it's one of the most important aspects. of life if you have to learn on your. own. And you learn a lot of times by the. people that are around you. If you're. around a bunch of insane leftists and. they're furries and they're they're just. out of their [ __ ] minds and they're. on various psychiatric medications and. they're uh essentially running the whole. [ __ ] school, you know, and this is. now their purpose in life. Like guess. what? You're going to be thinking like. them, you know? We're we're we're very.

behavior is very contagious to young. impressionable people. And. I mean, I don't know how you you solve. that. That's always going to be it's. always like a thing that people have to. navigate upon like leaving the house, finding your identity, who you are as a. person. And when you're getting caught. up in these, you know, movements, any. kind of a movement becomes very. exciting. Like think about how many. people are caught up in the movement of.

climate change. >> Yeah. >> You know, like how many people caught up. in that movement? It's so important to. stop this. It's so important to stop all. fossil fuels. It's so important. But is. it or is it you just found a movement? You found a thing where you feel like. you can become attached to. It's just. like a natural thing that young people. tend to do when they want to make make a. change in life and they get very excited. by it. But it's also it's really easy to. get captured by existing.

systems when you're in that state. because there's people that manipulate. the fact that people want to protest. things. They manipulate the fact that. you want to be a part of a movement. They'll create movements. They get you. involved. And it's just a very strange. aspect of human behavior that uh we. don't teach kids about in school. You. should teach kids like, "Hey, don't join. a [ __ ] cult. Here's how you know it's. a cult." You know, if the guy's like a. yoga teacher and he gets to have sex.

with everybody's wife, guess what? That's a cult. You know what I mean? [laughter]. >> Nature's way of telling. >> There's a lot of these tells, but you're. not teaching kids that. We don't teach. kids how to avoid scams. We don't teach. kids how to communicate ideas without. getting upset because that took a long. time for me to learn, you know, and we. don't we have to figure it out through a. lot of intelligent and challenging. conversations where you're like, I don't. know why I feel the way I feel. Let me. examine why I feel the way I feel about.

this rather than just say what I think. Because sometimes it's it's that's. required to have a a delicate. conversation between two people that. disagree where no one gets to shouting. You know, every argument that I've ever. been in where it was like, "Fuck you.". or got real loud, every one of them I. probably could have avoided. >> Even if the other person was like hyper. super aggressive, I probably could have. avoided them. I probably could have. deescalated it, you know,

and that's a reality of being a human. being that needs to be taught like that. That's something you learn on your own, but you should also explain these. principles to kids as they're growing. Like, hey, you know how you feel jealous. about someone? Yeah. You need to turn. that into fuel. That's inspirational. fuel. That bad feeling is motivation to. get the good feeling that comes with. improvement and success. And you can use.

it to ruin your life and become. jealousy. Or you can use that same. feeling and use it as inspiration and. you will thrive. And you'll also have a. lot more friends. Try it that way. And. you could teach people how to rethink. scenarios when they come up and go, "Okay, I know this little [ __ ] in me. wants to be mad that this is not me. happen that's getting to be Superman in. this [ __ ] movie or whatever it is.". But that that's just like cool that. someone got to do that and that's how I. have to look at it. Nobody teaches that.

Nobody. It's like what one of the best. ways to manage your life and you got to. figure it out through like stumble after. stumble. You have trial and error all. along the way. No one telling you how. they did it. Like, how about teach that? Teach that to [ __ ] 12 year olds. Like, don't argue. Like, have. disagreements whenever possible. Nothing. wrong with that. But don't, you know, don't get like completely attached to. your idea to the point where you're.

angry at this person because they voted. this way and you voted that way and they. now you've cut them out of your life and. you can no longer communicate with them. because they're an other because they're. a liberal or they're a Republican, they're a conservative. Like what are. you doing? Like how did you get tricked. with this? What a dumb [ __ ] trick. like you're with us or against us. There's only two teams. It's shirts. versus skins. Like this is so dumb. Of. course, there's a bunch of different.

ways to think about things. We're just. suckered into it. And if we don't teach. kids that, it's we're going to stay. suckered forever and ever. And it seems. like something that can be taught. And. there's almost no effort to explain to. kids like how to navigate life. Well, I don't think, you know, I don't. think teaching it is the right way to. think of it. I think you what you need. is an environment in which it teaches. itself, right? A coherent environment in. which you learn the lesson, you know, at.

small scale before you're faced with the. larger scale problem. >> That's probably a more clever way of. handling it. But I mean, the principles. of it would help to know as you're. experiencing it. So as you're going. through this trial and error, having. these principles of how to navigate it. so you could recognize it when it comes. up because you've already defined it, you know, that's like what you do with. skills like physical skills. Yeah. >> You have to everyone when you like find. like a deficit in what you're doing. You. have to recognize that and define it. And if you don't define it, then it's.

going to always be there. It's going to. always [ __ ] you up. >> Yeah. But you know, we used to do this. automatically. We were just sort of. built to do it. Our culture, which I. would argue is every bit as biological. as our genes. Our culture provided this. experience. And this really is what. human childhood is for. If you have an. environment that is coherent as a child, that's like a miniature version of the. adult world that you're going to grow up. and live in. Then you learn these. lessons, right? You get your heart.

broken by, you know, the girl that you. fancied in grade school. And you know, you you learn something about, you know, what you did that caused her to to leave. or whatever. You know, you learn it at. small scale. And we don't a childhood. environment doesn't look like our adult. environment because the adult. environment is changing so rapidly that. nobody knows what environment you're. going to live in as an adult. And it's. just not set up properly. For one thing, we don't immunize children from being.

parasetized by corporations that view. them as profit centers. And so, you. know, corporations are distorting. childhood for their own purposes. >> But I want to go back to your point. about movements for a second. >> Yeah. But while we're on this, just to. define it, um I'm I think everybody has. to go through all those things. I think. everybody has to go through breakups. Everybody has to go through heartbreak. I think having an understanding of what. it is. >> is not bad. No, it's good. >> I'm not saying shield kids from life.

>> You your your best teacher is always. going to be life. Y. >> but what I'm saying is if you gave. someone a framework to understand what's. going they're going through when they're. going through it and you go, okay, other. people have gone through this. You know, all these people have there's there's a. database that we can draw from. We get. taught in school this is how it happens. This is what it's going to feel like. and you get taught by competent people. that aren't out of their [ __ ] mind. and just want to turn you into a furry. or whatever. [laughter]. >> Well, right. Although, I'm not sure.

school is the place. And I do want to go. back and tell you why I slightly. disagree with your point about uh school. overall and that that is the place to. solve things on that front. I. >> not just solve things. I'm not saying. solve things, but radically improve. people's chances of success, >> right? But the problem is. that is an idea, a great idea that is. past its sell by date. >> But why? >> Because you just stepped across the.

event horizon into the AI era and school. is now an anacronism and we don't know. what is supposed to replace. I mean, think about what school I I have had the. interesting uh experience of being on. campus in two different colleges in the. last uh week while I've been on the. road. Um and I, you know, I hadn't. really spent much time on a college. campus since 2017.

Things are. very different than they were. Think. about what the job of a professor is. these days, right? A professor is now in. a position of managing a class full of. people who have. access to a highly intelligent computer. interface that sometimes lies and. sometimes makes stuff up. but is smarter than the professor. >> Yeah. Explain that too because many.

people might not know that they actually. do what's called hallucinations. >> Yep. I'm not sure that's a great. description of what they're doing, but. it's sort of becoming but that's what. they call it the shorthand for it. I. don't know why they use the term. hallucinations. But essentially AI just. invents answers if it doesn't know what. they are, >> right? I mean the problem is we don't. really know what we programmed it to try. to accomplish because what we did was we. gave it the goal of saying the next. thing that was right. But we don't, you. know, what does right mean, >> right? >> Right. Right.

>> And so they're not programmed to be. truthful. their program to be effective. in some way where we haven't really. defined what they're effective at. And. so you can get. a highly cogent analysis of a question. you've just thought of that nobody's. ever thought of before. You can also get back a credible. sounding answer that doesn't stand up if. you go and look into what it's based on. And anyway, for the moment that makes.

the problem of the professor somewhat. tractable, right? Because a student. can't totally rely on the fact that. whatever Grock just told them is going. to pass muster with this person who. knows something about the subject, >> right? >> But again, we're five minutes in here. This is not, you know, the job of a. professor has gone. almost to the. hopefully creative full-time.

uh policing of plagiarism, if that's. even what they should be doing. Because. if you think about what world these. college kids are going to go make their. careers in, they are going to be leveraging AI. So. in some sense, the professor's job may. have just transitioned from teaching you. about this subject to teaching you how. to manage this repository that knows. more about the subject than you ever. will. But the professor never trained.

for that. They don't know how to do. that. So anyway, my point is. at the moment we do not know if school. persists through this era, if it. transforms into something different and. better. If we don't we just don't know. what it is that is going to shepherd. children into young adulthood into. adulthood. because.

all of [snorts] the relationships now. have AI. between them. I mean, in fact, one of. the things when I was on this uh campus. um in Phoenix a few nights ago, I was. doing a debate about AI and my point to. the students was you are now dealing. with something that is going to. profoundly alter every relationship in. your life, even if it doesn't have. anything obvious to do with AI because.

you're talking to the AI and whoever. you're talking to is also talking to the. AI. So, it is going to be like a ghost. in your machine. Inside your head, the. AI is going to be having this impact. It's like what we've just faced with. algorithms, but you know, tenfold more. profound. And so what I suggested to the. students was you need to find. at least one person like I'm thinking. about a romantic partner but you need to.

find at least one person where you can. establish a relationship that is not. profoundly. uh intermediated by this unknown new. species that happens to speak your. language. Um, and you know, in some. sense, I'm borrowing from uh what. Heather and I learned during COVID, which is that the fact that our. relationship was independent of the. algorithms, you know, that we were in. the same place and that we spoke the.

same language to each other and that we. knew a lot of things in common that. immunized us a great deal to being, you. know, pushed around by these uh. proclamations that were coming through. the internet. This is the need for that. but at a much higher level. [sighs]. >> Um, who's going to be the first to have AI. just teach rooms of kids? What school is. going to be the first to say this is. better? It's been statistically proven.

that they get better test results, get. into more universities. Who's going to. jump on that first? Or do you think it's. going to happen so fast that there's. going to be just a bunch of different. ways to handle it? And. you're you're. if you really imagine what happens when. everything is now run by a new life. form. Everything power, internet, everything. Every [ __ ] thing on Earth. run by a new life form. And we have to. somehow negotiate with it for goods and.

services. Like what are we doing? And. it's gonna get, you know, Elon made the. promise. We was talking on this podcast. that best case scenario. No, I shouldn't. say made the promise, made the. prediction of best case scenario is like. a universal high income where there'll. be so much wealth generated that no one. will essentially have to work. And I was. like, well, isn't that like the best. version of socialism? Like if if you. never have to worry about stuff anymore, like no one has to worry about goods and.

services because this alien life form. that you've created that now dominates. the earth is uh allowed you to have all. this stuff. So now you could just exist. for as long as you want. >> Careful what you wish for. I know. >> it's a disaster. And I actually want to. connect it to something that you said. earlier. You were talking about. movements and why everybody's involved. in these things. And I would argue. >> well it's more than that. I think. >> movements have always existed but. they're not you know you don't always.

live in an era where there's an. important one you know in your town that. you can join in general that's not what. people do with life. And what I think. has happened uh is. well frankly I'm going to connect it to. the sexual revolution right the sexual. revolution creates the opportunity to. get one of the most um profound rewards. in fact the most profound reward that.

the universe has ever produced as far as. we know without having to invest very. much work at all. Right? So by making. sex common, it totally altered the way. people viewed the number of years they. had to live, right? They could afford to. put off child rearing, right? It could. be distant in the future, which left all. of these young people with all of this. energy. who.

might well not have been involved in. movements if they were struggling to, you know, raise a family. But because. the family part has been put off so. long, right, it is considered abnormal. to marry early. It is considered normal. not to. What people do is they take the. energy, you know, the seriousness of. purpose that would ordinarily be. directed into uh managing a marriage and. uh uh the role of being a parent and.

they put it into something. And Heather. has pointed out that this is especially. um powerful with young women who seem to. take on causes, you know, and they defend them like a. mother defending her child, that's a. very powerful force. And the point is if. the idea is well climate change is a, you know, is a threat and your role here. on Earth is to make sure that that. threat is addressed and you put the mama.

bear energy into your climate change. work. Well, you know, that's pretty. frightening, especially if climate. change isn't the threat that it's been. made out to be, right? You have a whole. large number of mama bears doing this. ferocious work. uh and there's a. question about what it even is, whether. whether there's whether that's even in. the top 10 list of concerns we ought to. have. So. anyway, the the connection I wanted to.

draw is that the. the projection that you're telling me. Elon has made about a high income for. everybody is a little bit like another. version of that, right? It's like, okay, well, sex became relatively easy to. access as a result of reliable birth. control plus abortion. And then now wealth, the ability. purchasing power is going to become. uh trivial as a result of AI. I don't.

know if that's likely, but let's say. that Elon is right about that. Well, okay, then what exactly is supposed to. structure your orientation to the. universe? What is supposed to give you. purpose if it's not producing kids and. protecting them from the horrors of the. world and making them strong so that. they can go out into it and accomplish. important things of their own. And it's not creating wealth so that you.

will be rewarded and that your spouse. will. smile on you. Whatever it is, then what. is human purpose? I think this is a. terrifying prospect that everything. might be taken care care of for us and. leave human beings um listless. >> Sure, that's that's certainly a possible. outcome. But why is it that we have to make money.

a madeup thing that we created? Why why. is it that is what gives us purpose? >> Well, like. >> why is that our only motivation? And in. absence of chasing. food, housing, necessities, electricity, all that. If. you don't ever have to worry about any. of that stuff ever again, why why is. life dependent upon the pursuit of. money? Is it just because we've grown.

accustomed to it and it's our way and so. we think that our way is the absolute. only way? That doesn't make any sense. It to me it's like we can adapt to not. living in [ __ ] caves anymore. All. right? We can adapt to cell phones. We. can adapt. We can adapt to the idea that. you don't have to spend your whole. [ __ ] life hoping to get a job you. hate and working your ass off all the. time because that's the only way to make. it in this world. Well, that's a world.

that people made. It's a stupid design. It doesn't make any sense at all. And if. somebody actually does come along and. say, "Look, is this not socialism? It's not saying. you can't earn money, but what if you. had enough money that you didn't have to. think about money? Like, if you think. about that $37 trillion of this [ __ ]. country's in debt for and how much. wealth could potentially be generated by. a we're talking about so much money. floating around. If you just gave. everybody in the country a a real high.

income, livable life, so there's no more. poverty anymore. How much crime would. that solve? Like instantaneously. How much crime would be solved or a. future crime solved if everybody lived. at a high income level? It sounds. completely insane, but imagine if. everybody in the country makes at least. a half a million dollars a year. You. know how different the world is. Do you. know how less violence there is, less. drug, less suicides, less drug.

addictions? >> I'm not I'm not as convinced of this as. you are. No, I think things might get. >> No one was ever poor. Well, I don't know. what no one is ever poor means because. we obviously even, you know, the the. poorest person who isn't homeless. >> currently, they have, you know, indoor. plumbing, they have a supercomput in. their pocket, access to, you know, the. world's information. They are in by many.

measures just simply in absolute terms. vastly richer than anybody from 300. years ago. >> That's true. But it still sucks cuz it's. not 300 years ago. It's 2025 and you. have zero money and you're eating ramen. to just try to stay alive. It still. sucks. >> It sucks. But the problem is what's. really structuring the suckitude is the. fact that you're losing in competition. That human beings are programmed by.

evolution to monitor the well-being of. others. And so you can be. wealthy and feel poor if those that you. compare yourself to are vastly. wealthier. >> Right? So we're and and there's a reason. for that which I I think it you know. this is a a reasonably well reproduced. result. We know that human beings pay. attention to their relative well-being. and that it it structures how they feel.

about their absolute circumstances, >> right? But couldn't that be hijacked by. hobbies? you know, if you if instead of your co. your need to define yourself completely. wrapped up in money, which is again a. madeup thing. Yeah. We're talking about. the only species on the planet that. we're aware of that wants to accumulate. so much [ __ ] that it defines itself by. it and it's constantly chasing new [ __ ]. right? Like, why does that have to be. the only way we do it?

>> No, I don't think it does have to be the. only way. Well, I think this is where. Uncle [clears throat] AI is going to. step in and fix it for us. Brett, [laughter]. >> well, this is the rosecolored glasses. approach is that we realize our. programming is entirely dependent upon. this ridiculous idea that the pursuit of. money is of importance above all because. in our current situation, it is. In our. current situation, if you have enough. money to feed your kids, you can sleep. better. That's just how it is. If you. don't worry about your bills, you feel. better. You have less pressure. That's. just how it is. If you have enough money.

to go on vacation and enjoy yourself and. relax, it's probably better for you. That's just how it is. And this is a a. it's a weird thing that we've all fallen. into that this is the only way to. succeed. The only way to succeed is to. work super hard to get money and that's. the only currency. It seems like you. could have if you just had if we never. worried about being poor, but then again. like you'd never get the great stuff. You'd never get the greatest artists.

>> who were in deep pain when they were. young. You'd never get the great. Then. again, with AI, you might not need them. because AI music is pretty [ __ ] good, man. It's pretty good. It's really. catchy. >> Catchy is what it is. It's not good. It's catchy. >> Oh, dude. It's good. >> I don't want to do this because I do. this with everybody, but have you ever. heard uh the 50 Cent version of uh. >> Yes, I have. >> What up, Ganga? You heard that one? >> Yeah, I think so. >> That's [ __ ] good.

>> It depends what you mean by good. >> It's good. It's objectively good. >> The fact that it's not a human being. singing it is troublesome and very. deeply problematic, but if you're being. honest, it's great. It's a great [ __ ]. song. I'm I'm I'm going to push back on. you there because. >> what we are suffering from is the. junkification of everything, right? And. there's a way in which junk food is good.

>> and then there's obviously a way in. which it's really not. And the I guess. the point is. something that is superficially. satisfying but does not it the. relationship between a a person. listening to music and the person. producing the music is supposed to be a. provocative relationship and it is. supposed to be provocative in a. productive way. In other words, you're. supposed to be enhanced by music.

I'm not saying that you will never be. triggered to have an interesting thought. by artificially intelligently produced. music, but the fact. I mean this is probably easier to do. with [clears throat] comedy, right, which I think will be the last to fall. at some point. Have you ever heard AI. making good jokes? >> Not yet. >> Yeah, not yet. >> But I bet it will. >> It will. >> It's got made competent jokes. I've seen.

AI fake comedians tell competent jokes. like pretty good like that. You would. see it at open mic night when someone's. got a little talent. >> Someone's got a little talent. So. >> yeah, they can do that now. >> Not far off. >> Yeah. But it's going to do it. It's. going to figure it out. But in the. future when they try you for the they're. going to use this this conversation to. say that you're racist against AI. [laughter] This is when AI becomes an. actual life form and they put talk about. the people that resisted AI and we're. racist against AI. a racist against. >> Yeah, that's that's going to be that's. the final form of woke. That's the final.

boss. [laughter]. >> It is the final one. >> It's woke AI that tries you for past. crimes of conversation, >> right? >> Where you described AI in a very. negative and unreasonable light and. actually inaccurate and that words are. violence. >> I'm going to ask you to edit this. section out. >> Imagine if that comes true. That sounds. like a crazy prediction, but crazier. predictions have been made. But all. right, let's let's just say you and I. both know that AI is going to be able to. make jokes that uh are actually funny in.

some regard. But what if. you remember the U TV program ALF? >> Yes. >> Okay. I barely saw it, but I did once. hear an interview with one of their. writers. >> [snorts]. >> um who said that they in the writer room. they had a. term that they called humor like. substance where for the halfhour show. they needed just one more joke that they. could use to justify the use of the.

laugh track. It didn't have to actually. be a funny joke. It just had to sound. enough like a joke that when the laugh. track was put on it, the people at home. would feel that something funny had been. said. Right? >> So, [clears throat]. the AI, if it produces jokes that. actually cause you to think, which is. what a good joke does, it causes you to. realize something that you didn't know. that you knew or something along those. lines, that's productive. And in fact, it can. be very productive to have a room full.

of people come to that awareness. simultaneously, right? It's actually a. galvanizing thing and it has interesting. impacts when you know you're the person. in the room who didn't get it, right? That's a like a profound emotional. experience. Or when you're the person. who laughs at the wrong moment and. you're out. [laughter]. >> Yeah, that's not good, right? >> Unless you're really confident. You have. to be really confident that you see some. humor in that. >> that nobody else saw. Well, yeah, I. suppose that that would work. But but. the point is this is deep stuff in the.

human psyche. >> whose purpose we have not come to any. agreement about. >> at the point that the AI can make people. laugh, but they don't necessarily know. what they're laughing at, >> then that's a step down. That's like. Have you seen these um I don't know. who's doing it, but there's somebody who. has been um experimenting with. >> uh McDonald's hamburgers and seeing if. they rot. [laughter]. >> And the the answer is they don't. Right.

Guess what you just discovered? That. that thing that's like pretty good food. isn't food at all. >> Oh, I know that. Listen, I'm aware this. is I feel about it that it is a real. thing. You cannot deny it. And something. is crafting this that is of a type of. intelligence that we've never. experienced before. And uh I'm looking. at it as look, it exists. That genie is. not going back in the bottle. >> I am a glass half full guy and I'm going.

to enjoy myself in this life and I'm. going to enjoy some good AI music. It. doesn't mean I'm not going to listen to. some Sturgil Simpson or some Gary Clark. Jr. or or some fortifying, soulfilled. songs that are written and sung by real. human beings. >> Yeah, I'm going to do that, too. I'm. going to do that, too. Uh. >> I don't give a [ __ ] I'm here for fun. And that music is fun. And you're not. stopping it, Brett. You You can't like. protest it and this is awful and I'm. going to boycott it. You're going to.

miss out on some awesome jams. I'll tell. you, man. And when we're in the [ __ ]. green room at the mothership and I put. on Hello Gangster before a show and. we're ALL LIKE, "GOD DAMN, we heard that. song 30 times. It's so good that it gets. you fired up and it achieves it. It's. it's not dehumanizing your perspective. on art and causing you to only. appreciate things that are created by a. different life form and not by human. beings." No, it's it's just it's doing. its own thing and it's a new thing. It.

doesn't mean I don't still love Bob. Dylan. Well, but you know, you have. lived a enough of a life before the AI. era began that you can experiment with. this thing. >> I think we can learn. I think I think. everybody worries about this upcoming. generation and they all adapt and learn. And I think our kids are going to adapt. and learn, too. It's just like what are. they adapting and learning to? You can. learn. You can learn how to handle. what's AI and what's real and why it's.

cool to go see a live performance. I. don't know. I don't know how you could. say this, Joe, because. we're not passing the test, right? Co. tells us that people are. capable of being whipped up into a witch. hunting frenzy. >> over a cold, >> over. I I will say a bad cold. >> over something that does not have a. substantial uh case fatality rate. And.

they're capable of being induced to um. bully each other into developmentally. damaging restrictions on kids into. taking experimental gene therapies and. shunning people who refuse to or who. pointed out that that might be a. dangerous thing to do. So that's all. before. >> completely disregarding history by the. way. Completely. >> completely. >> like all that we know about the times in. the past where they've given medications.

to people that they knew were going to. be problematic and they did it for. profit. Come on. Are we all we're. agreeing to be idiots? We're all. agreeing that to be a good person you. have to be a [ __ ] idiot. That's. crazy. >> So that's a status report on how well we. are doing. You say we've adapted. I. would say not well. We are very. vulnerable to manipulations and. demonizing each other. >> I push back on that saying a human being. has to experience something like really. experiencing it to to know what it is.

>> Everybody went through that now. >> It's the first time in our lives that. the entire country got kind of medically. bamboozled. Y. >> and a lot of people regret taking the. vaccine and I don't know anybody who. regrets not taking the vaccine. It was a. weird it was a weird time like a very. bizarre experiment on what how you can. get people to comply how you can. restrict their movement that you can. implement these sort of devices to if.

you're not physically forcing them to do. it make their life as shitty as possible. and Fouchi's been quoted as saying that. you want to get to drop their. ideological [ __ ] and get vaccinated. that's what he said remember I mean it's. it's a scop and we now We know we've. been through that before. >> It wasn't the first time. >> It wasn't But it was the first time in. my life. >> No. >> But it was the first time in my life. where everybody talked about it. We were. forced to first time where we saw the. man behind the curtain.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> The first time we saw that, oh, you're. silencing legitimate doctors who. disagree with you and you're you're. trying to take their licenses away. You're getting them kicked. You're. having this intelligence agencies be. involved in getting these people from. Stanford and MIT. You're getting them. kicked off of Twitter because they. disagree, >> right? >> This is crazy. >> It's crazy. >> But [clears throat] we saw it now. >> Well, no, but we did and we didn't. Okay. Some of us saw it really clearly.

Most people, they think CO happened. That was. unfortunate. I'm a little scared about. the shot I took or whatever. I don't. want to talk about. >> I don't think it's just a little scared. I think everybody knows somebody who. took it and got really [ __ ] Well, I. would agree with you, but they still. don't want to talk about what happened. They don't understand that getting to. the bottom of that story is essential if. it's to not happen again, >> right? And, you know, there are hints of it all over. the place. It's happening again. And I.

don't know if you saw um Bobby Kennedy. coming out uh in favor of Ozmpic. yesterday. >> Here's I I have a nuanced perspective on. Ozmpic. >> Okay. >> Okay. Uh I think people are. they they they move with momentum and. that momentum if you're living a. disastrous life is very difficult to. reverse. It's very very very difficult. to reverse and food is one of the most.

unique addictions in that it's one that. you have to moderate but you can't quit. Like you can quit gambling, you can quit. smoking crack, you can't quit eating. So. the thing that you're addicted to, you. have to keep doing. It's the craziest. highwire act. >> in addiction in my opinion because it's. the one that you absolutely need in. order to stay alive, but you can't go, but you can't go cold turkey and you're. eating too much of it. And so you're. always going to be tempted and the stuff.

that you need to eat is going to cause. you discomfort because you've got to. reduce calories and get your body to. start burning fat. It's all [ __ ]. craziness. If you can give someone a. little boost, I don't think there's. anything wrong with that. I think it. should be managed. with the understanding of your weight. and that it can also be managed with. other peptides that could diminish the. disastrous results of bone loss and. muscle loss which is a significant. portion of what but but according to.

Brigham Beller who runs a compounding. pharmacy and understands this he's like. it's very dose dependent he goes and. pharmaceutical drug companies make more. money if the dose is larger And he was. explaining how this is what part of the. problem they have with. compoundingarmacies because. compoundingarmacies can kind of make the. doses that's appropriate to your body. mass, how much weight you're trying to. lose. But that just get for regular. people, no. God damn it. Clean up your. diet, go to the gym, cut the [ __ ] But.

for someone who's really struggling, who's 500 [ __ ] pounds and can't stop. eating, that at least kills your. appetite and it allow you to get to a. healthy form. And then maybe through. therapy and maybe through something else. or maybe just the momentum of now being. healthy will allow you to keep the. weight off and then slowly get off this. stuff. The problem is I think you're. supposed to stay on it. >> which is kind of crazy and it is a. essentially a type two diabetes. medication right.

>> which you know if you know anything. about type two diabetes a lot of it you. know people can it could be a product of. too much sugar consumption. Yeah, >> it's a weird one, right? You eat too. much sugar and then eventually your. body's like, "Oh, we're fucked." And. that would make sense that a medication. that would control your appetite would. would help you in that regard. >> Yeah. I just don't think it's a safe. drug. And, you know, it's one thing if. you're talking about somebody who is. many hundreds of pounds overweight. You're talking about somebody who has a. a dire situation and engaging a.

dangerous. >> or even like 70, 50, 60 pounds. Someone. who's like feels helpless. >> Well, it depends. If you It's just hard. >> a drug that you're meant to be on for. the rest of your life. >> No, I don't I don't know if that's true, though. Like, if you just get off it, then you have your appetite, but now you. have a a body that weighs 200 lb instead. of 350 lb and you're motivated to do it. Like, we can't hold your hand. Let's put. it this way. >> But if you can get you to the healthy. dance, >> I think it's another experiment. And. that's the problem. It's another. experiment. >> But it's here's here's what's not an.

experiment. >> Yeah. >> Be fat as [ __ ] die young. >> Sure. >> That's not an experiment. That's that's. a fact. >> I agree. On the other hand, nothing that. doesn't come from pharma is considered a. potentially legitimate approach. Okay. >> So, what is the other legitimate. approach to massive weight loss for. something that h someone who has an. absolute addiction to sugar and. carbohydrates? >> All right. Well, I would say there is a. tremendous amount of potential value, not just in terms of things like weight.

control, appetite reset, and all of. that, but in terms of all kinds of. chronic health conditions from fasting. There is a small body of literature on. it, which should be much larger. There's. lots of stuff that your body can't do if. it's in the same cycle that it's usually. in that it can do when you break that. cycle. Um there's all sorts, you know, Heather and I, uh I've done a ton of um.

regular water fasting and I've done a. smaller amount of dry fasting. Heather. and I have been experimenting with that. because Heather has some injuries from a. boat accident in 2016 that um. caused a lot of internal soft tissue. damage. Dry fasting appears to trigger autoagi. It appears to reset things about the. gut. I think it can do it in both. directions. But what we need is better a.

better understanding of how it is that. you deploy it. And we need to get people. past the false sense that they have that. they are actually taking their life into. their hands if they try this. Do you know anything about it? >> Well, I do. Um, and I definitely think. there's some benefits to fasting and. especially particularly intermittent. fasting. I think it's a really good way. to eat. It makes you feel better. It. gives your digestion a break. >> Um, the problem is it requires discipline.

And this is where I think uh I'm leaning. in this direction of drugs can help. Now. look, I'm not a big fan of everybody. being on SSRIs, but I personally have. friends that were severely depressed and. suicidal and they got on SSRIs and they. felt better and they got their life. together and then they got their life. together and they started feeling better. and the depression waned and then they. slowly got off of those drugs because. they're very smart people and very.

motivated people. But I So. I think sometimes pharmaceutical drugs. can come in and give you a little boost. Just because we're distrustful of them. and just because we know that they've. done horrible things in the past, it. doesn't mean that every now and then. they come up with something that's very. beneficial in a specific scenario. In. the specific scenario of you don't have. any discipline, you are [ __ ] fully. addicted to sugar and carbohydrates like. a goddamn junkie. Like you can't breathe. without it. and you've been consuming.

nothing but garbage for a long time, but. then you realize like, I can't do this. anymore. I've got to figure out a way to. do it. And then you keep falling back on. your old habits over and over again. because you never had an opportunity in. your life to develop discipline. It's. almost like a little boost, just a. little boost, you know, like maybe. you've got chronic fatigue and your. doctor gives you 30 milligrams of. aderall and all of a sudden you're like, "That worked." Like I don't think you. should take Adderall, but I don't have. chronic fatigue. >> If I did, maybe I would. Maybe I would. take it and go, "Look, this is better.

than not having aderall.". >> Do you know what I'm saying? Like if. you're if you're really overweight and. someone gives you something that. controls your appetite and then you can. get healthy again. Like that to me is. the most important thing. The most. important thing is getting your body to. a point where you can be mobile, you can. move it, you can do stuff, you have. strength, and as long as you're strength. training, and this protocol that they're. trying to develop is like getting it to. your body weight and using additional. peptides that could benefit in the.

maintaining of bone mass and muscle. mass. >> Okay, so couple things. Okay. >> One, I'm not arguing that there aren't good. drugs and places that they should be. applied. I am very suspicious anytime. the idea is that this remedy is. something, but you're going to have to. take it for the rest of your life. >> Yes, I agree. >> Okay. Second, the idea that slowing the. motion of food through the gut is a good. idea, I think is preposterous on its.

face. I'm not arguing that there might. not be an instance where that's the. right thing to do, but that is a very. dangerous kind of intervention. You're. you're interfacing with many different. systems, >> potential horrific side effects, >> right? >> With respect to SSRIs, >> there's a question about. >> Can we stick with this though for just a. little bit before we get to SSRI? >> So, what the specific side effects are. are they is it dose dependent? Do they. know if it's dose dependent? Do they. know that? Is there like a a dose that a.

person could takes that gives a moderate. effect but has less of a appetite. suppressant but is safer? >> I don't know the answer to that. question. The frankly the what has been. presented to us is so preposterous that. I have not delved to see whether there's. some reasonable version of it. Maybe. there is. >> See, I'm trying to be as optimistic as. possible about this. And that's why like. I would imagine myself if I had gotten. to the point where I was like severely.

obese and someone came along and gave me. something and was giving me a positive. result and they told me you got to take. it for the rest of your life. I'd be. like okay but now I weigh 200 lb instead. of 350 lb. I can go upstairs again. >> Well look if that's. >> if it's not [ __ ] me up. >> If that's the scenario if you're 300 lb. and you can get to 200 lb and you're. going to pay a price. Maybe it will. shorten your life. Maybe it will have. important side effects, but you can at. least compare them if you have good. information. And the fact is being 300. lb is really freaking unhealthy. So the.

fact that this drug may be really. freaking unhealthy is not, you know, a. fatal argument, >> right? It might be equally unhealthy, but at least you get to. >> might be a good trade. >> You get to be hot. You're equally. unhealthy. But maybe that is like, wow, wouldn't that be the crazy like devil's. like the devil makes you a deal? >> Yeah. like I'm going to you you know you. you eat so much food that you're going. to die of a heart attack by the time. you're 46. But you know what I'm going. to do? I'm going to give you a chance to. die at 46 but be hot. So all you have to. do is like lose the weight. Like that.

would be that's like a scenario in the. Twilight Zone. You know, like some devil. proposes you a deal. >> Um. >> that is kind of a satanic deal. Like if. it did I'm not saying it does, but if it. did kill you like at the same rate that. obesity does, but you get to be hot. >> No. Look. Woo. It is normal to make. deals even just in real biology space. without any drugs or technology. It is. normal to discount the future in favor.

of an improved present. That's, you. know, future discounting is a normal. human function. Yeah. >> I'm not arguing that somebody who made. that deal with all of the information is. necessarily making mistake. I feel. certain they won't have all the. information. I feel certain that this is. going to be given to people A for whom. there is a vastly better approach and uh. B for whom the degradation in their life. will be much greater than whatever gains. they make. You you and I know the.

players we watched how they functioned. during co we know that they are willing. to give you drugs that aren't in your. interest. I mean, even just. >> not just give you, but force you to take. >> force you to take. Did Did you see Paul. Offett admitting that he and Fouchy and. Winski and and Collins knew that uh that. natural immunity was superior and that. it did not make any sense to be giving. these shots even if they thought the. shots worked, it wouldn't make any sense. to give them to uh young people who'd.

had COVID. Why would you take the risk, right? But they went along with it, right? Right? They violated informed. consent. They put people at risk who had. no conceivable benefit they could gain. from it. >> Especially people who had already had. COVID. You can't even make the argument, >> right? You can't make the argument. >> And when you have a vaccine that doesn't. work, then your argument completely. falls apart. >> because it doesn't stop transmission. It. doesn't stop infection. And so you're. making this argument, oh, but it stops. hospitalization. Well, [ __ ] prove it. How do you even prove that?

>> Well, [ __ ] prove it. And it's not. your [ __ ] problem. Right. You don't. you can't make me take a shot to protect. me. >> Right. >> Right. >> Exactly. And if it works, well, then. it's going to work on all the people who. take it and all the other people, those. morons that don't take it, they're going. to be [ __ ] Right. Well, that didn't. happen. >> No, it it absolutely didn't happen. So, anyway, this is we know the playbook. We. know what pharma does. Right. >> Right. And the point is, you're not. going to know how dangerous this drug. is. You're not going to know how good. the alternatives are. And you know, >> they're going to suppress the. alternatives and they're going to do it.

in a way that somehow or another not le. not illegal. It's not illegal to make. studies that you know can't work, >> right? They're going to game the. scientific literature so that we will. have endless arguments about, you know, who's a fool because you will have ample. evidence whichever side of the equation. you're on. >> And they've turned a drug like. Ivormectin into a fool's drug. >> Yeah, it's crazy. >> That was one of the weirdest scops. And. but I don't think it really worked, but. it did work. It worked for a long a long.

time, but I think most people don't. think of it the same way anymore. >> But they did it in the age of the. internet. >> Like did it in the age where anybody. look at their phone instantaneously and. read that the guy who invented. ivormectton won a [ __ ] Nobel Prize. for it. >> Yeah. >> And how many different does the fact. that it it stops viral replication in. vitro in in test tubes or whatever the. [ __ ] they do it in petri dishes. Like. it's a weird antiviral that has profound.

effects. Like it it's very effective and. has a very low uh dose of like I don't. think anybody's ever died from it. Right. >> It is a profoundly safe drug in. comparison to all the others. >> It safety profile is like one of the. best ever. Right. >> Yes. And the the the one that gets me. now, the one that I wish somebody had. said to me earlier is that it works. generally across single stranded RNA. viruses. It would be weird if it didn't. work on CO, right? It's not like, oh, I.

don't know. >> Most people hearing this that are highly. educated, that are, you know, mainstream. narrative thinking a little bit are. listening to you and this is [ __ ]. conspiracy theory. This is [ __ ]. Ivormectton didn't work, man. It just. didn't work. >> Yeah, come on. It didn't work. >> It didn't work. It's [ __ ] It didn't. work. There's no studies that show it. worked. >> It's [clears throat]. utter nonsense. It's utter nonsense. So anyway, that's. the lens with which I look at OAMPic. And then the SSRI [clears throat] thing, it happens. >> At least no one's forcing you to take.

OMIC, >> right? No. >> So if the devil comes along with the. contract and says, "Listen, you're going. to die at 46. [laughter] no matter what we do, but I. can make you hot.". I and I'm not saying that. >> that was a pretty good impression. I. mean, I don't really know because I. haven't met the man. >> I haven't met him either, but I would. imagine he'd be like kind of fogghorn. leg horny just to throw you off. >> Sure. A little like uh you remember. Robert Dairo played the devil in Angel. Heart? >> I don't think. >> he's one of the coolest devils of all. time. Angel Hart was a really good.

movie. It was Mickey Ror and um. >> uh man, why how am I blanking on her. name? The lady from the Cosby Show. >> Lisa Bonet. >> Lisa Bonet. Sorry, Lisa. I just my brain. sucks. Um, but and um it was this like. crazy movie of this guy realizing that. he had sold his soul to the devil and. Robert Dairo. It's a very dark movie, very strange and he doesn't want to pay. He doesn't want to give up his soul and.

you know the devil eventually confronts. him and the devil's Robert Dairo and uh. he's one of the best devils of this is. what I think the devil would look like. It wouldn't be terrifying. Who would it. would be this guy? You want to listen to it? >> We can't. >> We can't listen to it. But it was. >> not worth it. >> Just creepy enough. >> Just creepy. >> It's better if it's a person. It's. creepier if the devil's a person.

>> Yeah. >> You know, not not some crazy thing with. horns and a tail. >> It's better if the devil's a person. >> It's too much of a tell. >> Yeah. If the devil's real, boy, he's. doing a really good job because no one. thinks he's real. Because if there. really is a devil, I always say that. everybody believes in God and you're. like, "God has a plan for me. God has a. plan for the world. These trials and. tribulations are all put in place by. God." And that's totally reasonable. But. if you say, you know, like if the. government came on TV and they say, "We've located the devil. He's in.

Pakistan and we we're going to begin. bombing. We're going to kill the devil.". It would be like, "What? What the [ __ ] did you say? You found the. devil and you're gonna blow him up, you. know? Or the devil wants to have a. meeting with the UN. Satan is standing on the podium in front. of the world explaining what his plan. is. You're like, "What? No one would. believe that, right?" But it's supposed. to be a real thing. Like, if you believe. in God, you're supposed to believe in. the devil. All of it's in the Bible. But.

this one part of the Bible, like, get. the [ __ ] out of here with this. [laughter] devil thing. It's weird. Whatever it is, we know that it works, right? We know evil is a real thing. Whatever, call it what it is, whatever. evil is. But when you see a a massacre. in some third world country where. religious fanatics or rival tribes. massacre people, if that if that's not. evil, like what is evil? And if you can. get into the minds of people and.

convince them that they have to go. machete their their distant neighbors, like if that's not like something that. Satan would do, like what is that then? And if we wrote if if people throughout. history wrote about Satan and wrote. about God and wrote about the conflict. of good and evil and then we're like, "Ah, yeah, but the devil stuff is not. real. The devil, the God stuff's real, but the devil's come on. There's no. devil." But like the results are the. same as if the devil was real. is my. point. There's so much evil in the.

world. It's like the devil's killing it. He's doing such a good job and everybody. still thinks he's not real. >> Well, you ask a question about evil that. I think is worth investigating. What is. it? My position on this has changed. radically. >> Um, so it used to be that I would say. that I thought evil was an extremely. rare phenomenon and the reason that I. thought it was extremely rare is because. it's a terrible strategy. Right? If we. say that um ruthlessness doing anything.

to get ahead is a good strategy, right? Because you can always not do stuff, right? You're you have every every move. available to you if you're just. perfectly amoral. But evil has to be. something beyond amoral. Evil has to be. something that intentionally does harm, that delights in it, right? In order to. merit that term. Mhm. >> That's not a good strategy, right? You. want if if game theoretically the ideal.

strategy is perfect amorality because it. can behave morally when that's. advantageous and it can behave immorally. when that's advantageous. That is. inherently the best. I'm not saying it's. good. It's not defensible. But I'm. saying just game theoretically. that is. going to be the most effective strategy. is one that can be moral and uh amoral. or can be can behave in whatever way is. ideal for the individual circumstance. To delight in doing harm is to miss the.

opportunity to be good when it's the. right thing to do. So I would have. expected evil to be a very rare. phenomenon because it's. self-extinguishing, right? If if you're. doing harm for its own sake, >> that's not a way to get ahead. you'll be. out competed by people who are amoral at. the very least. But I see so many things. that strike me as meriting that label. I. mean, for example, the pedophilia that.

you're talking about, >> right? >> I don't understand. the ability. to. destroy. a child for your own gratification. like. I'm sorry that merits the term and it. apparently is more common than. most of us have believed until recently. >> Yeah. What do you think that is? Uh. particularly.

like the the man boy stuff which is does. that go back to when. if you you were there was no birth. control. So if you had sex with a woman, you very likely procreated. And you probably if you wanted to stop. people from procreating, you probably. separate men and women. So you get a. bunch of horny boys around each other. and the big ones abuse the smaller ones. I mean is that is that how it starts or. is it just. >> it could be it could be a.

um concentration of sexual wealth. effectively that if you have some force. that allows. um basically the hoarding of mates. >> Mhm. >> leaving a lot of guys with no prospect. You might imagine that they. might innovate something that the sex. drive is so profoundly powerful that if.

some force makes it impossible to find. a mate that other things would happen. I don't know if that's I don't know if. that's what's explaining it. I don't. know enough about the phenomenon. seen. uh reports of this behavior and it's. super disturbing. >> It's just super disturbing that it. exists so much in history and that it's. accepted so much in history. And here's. another weird one. Like the Spartans.

were gay, right? They they all had lovers that. were other men that they fought. alongside and their idea was that you. would fight harder to protect your. lover. like [clears throat] how. >> that one almost makes more sense to me, you know? >> It certainly I mean certainly better, right? They're they're consenting. adults, but it's like. why have our ideas of sexuality evolved. to where they are today?

And what is like this is is it because. people didn't know how horrific it was. back then? Is it because it was under. reportported? Was it was shame that the. momentum of people doing it to more. people like that people that got. molested went on to molest and it was. like more common? >> Well, you got to you got to split those. two phenomena. Let's take your your. Spartans and battle. Okay. And and uh. >> right there I I had them all confused. there. I think I've mentioned this to.

you before, but I I have a hypothesis. that the reason that ships are female. is because it causes the people who man. them to defend them properly. If you're. like. >> like a mother, right? >> Right. Like a mother or a spouse or. >> Right. Your wife, your mother. >> Yeah. Um, and so anyway, my point would. be that the name, you know, the female. naming of ships has persisted because.

actually it preserves ships and the. cultures that preserve their ships. better out compete the ones that. preserve their ships less well, right? So anyway, you could imagine. that um you know gay soldiers who did. you know I mean every guy is built to. want you're built to defend your lover. and it's hard for me to relate to that. being a guy cuz I don't swing that way. But if you did feel that way about a. guy, then you can imagine that your, you. know, ferocity in battle would be.

enhanced by uh by that that sense of. protectiveness. >> It totally makes sense. But and then I. think it was also very common in ancient. Japan. I think it was a thing among samurai to. have young boy lovers too, wasn't it? Well, but again, you're you know, I. these two phenomen. Jamie, >> I mean, it's just it's just weird that. that exists so often and all throughout.

history and then over the last 100. years, everybody's like, "Hey, hey, hey, what the [ __ ] is that?" Like, it took. that long. And then some of it must still persist. at very high levels because some of. these [ __ ] psychopaths that get into. these great positions of power, they. probably have some very bizarre needs. All right, we put it into our sponsor. perplexity. Um, it says, "Among samurai in Japan, some.

same-sex relationships, particularly. male male ones, were indeed recognized. and culturally integrated, somewhat. similar to Spartan practices, but with. distinct Japanese characteristics. The. practi practice was known as shudo or. nan shoku where intense erotic and. mentorship bonds were formed between an. adult samurai. ninja and a younger male apprentice or. page. uh wakashu. The institution function within a strict.

role framework with the elder as the. active partner and the younger as the. receptive one. Boy, that's a weird way. to put the old guy [ __ ] the kid. >> That's the most euphemistic term I've. ever seen to the old guy [ __ ] the kid. Let's see. I say the old guy [ __ ] the. kid. And what they say is. >> the active partner and the younger as. the receptive one. So the old the elder. is the active partner emphasizing. loyalty, affection, and mutual growth.

Oh, we're both growing from this, buddy. [snorts] Wow. So there you go. >> All right. Um, yeah, >> it did not exclude heterosexual marriage. and family duties. It was compatible. with and did not exclude heterosexual. marriage and family duties. So that's. the loophole. You can only have sex with. one wife. You know, you have to be. heterosexual. You're you're But you. could [ __ ] as many kids as you want. Jesus Christ. And that's history. And. that's weird. It's it's just a it's.

weird that it took so long before people. realize like that's a terrible thing to. do to people. >> Yeah. Um is there any information on. what h you know I guess in this case. what you're reading suggests a mentor. relationship which suggests that these. kids are maturing into other roles. >> Yes. >> I think what you're describing in. Afghanistan is not that at all. >> No, not that at all. It's a worse. version of that destructive. >> involving the same horrific act. It's. just a much worse version of it. But.

it's all just [ __ ] crazy. It's like. we know now what it does to people. And. it's like, how did they not know then? >> Well, you know, >> is it because of shared information? Is. it because of books, media? Is it. because of social media? Like what is. it? >> The problem, Joe, I really there's an. important concept that I want to remind. you. We've talked about it before. It's. relevant to all sorts of things. I just. don't want to connect it to this, but I.

think go for it. >> Well, the concept is lineage, and the. problem is lots of stuff that looks. really freaking strange when you zoom in. and you look at individual behavior. The. real question is what were these things. having to do with the success or not of. the lineages that were involved in them? And um we don't know. So you're you're. looking at the behavior between. individuals and you're saying that's.

grotesque and doesn't make sense. And. the question is does the larger context, especially when you're dealing with. things like uh samurai, you know, that. are basically fundamentally about the uh. the continuence of a lineage. There's a. question about what, you know, what. makes for a functional samurai culture. And. I don't know. I'm no expert in this. So, I can't even look at that case and give.

you a proposal. I don't know enough. about the context to say how it might. work. But I can tell you where you have. a paradox like that. You [snorts] either. have the case that I think is going on. in Afghanistan where it's just purely. predatory. Right. Well, I think in order. I mean if it really truly is a mentor. relationship and that they all do it, it's essentially the same sort of. function as with the Spartans, right? Like they would be fighting alongside. each other. It would be if you were.

going to develop an army, like you would. probably first of all, they're not going. to have any contact with females for a. long period of time, right? It' probably. encourage homosexuality. Well, I think what I think what I'm. getting at is I think you and I are. struggling with that landscape and what. it might mean. >> because you and I are fundamentally. western and lineage against lineage. violence is not our mindset. And so.

anytime you and I look at lineage. against lineage violence, there are paradoxes. of plenty. And the problem, one of the things that. I'm spending a lot of time thinking. about is the fact that lineage against. lineage violence. is reasserting itself. That the West was. the alternative to that. and lineage. against lineage violence is reasserting. itself and it is threatening to drag the. whole world back into it because it is.

fundamentally more stable, [snorts]. right? The West is more vibrant. The. West is safer, fairer, more productive, but it's fragile. It depends on an. agreement to continue treating each. other that way. And. that means that anything that threatens. it causes it to come apart and you. descend back into a world of chaos and.

grotesque behavior. And that's where I think we are. We are. watching the agreement. You know, the. world was moving in the direction of the. west. We were getting along better. We. were learning to be productive together. with people who were not closely related. to us. And we are contracting now back. into this view of well it's us against. them and they got to go.

[snorts]. >> Do you. do you think there's a way to change. course like the the negative things that. are going on in society right now? the. the negative things that we all feel. when when you're talking about whether. it's pharmaceutical drug companies. getting involved in their healthc care. narratives in order to make more money. Do do you think there's a way forward. where this corrects itself or we correct. it or we get to a much more healthy B. you're never going to get everybody.

who's involved in every aspect of. society to be a good person with. kindness in their heart and a general. overall want for the good of mankind. It's you're not going to have that. everywhere. You're always going to have. some people that are out for themselves, but is there a way to balance it and. make it much more in the direction of. everybody recognizing like, hey, this. way we're doing this is not good for. anybody and it's being manipulated by. foreign governments all day long and. you're addicted to the thing that it's.

manipulating you on. And whether or not. you realize it, you're at least somewhat. affected by this data that's coming at. you. You could say, "I'm smart. I'm not. gonna fall into that [ __ ] But then, you know, it's a little gets in there. Enough gets in there that it becomes a. part of your thinking that it becomes. something that you debate all the time. And it's mostly artificially propped up. >> Well, I want to separate that into two. questions. >> Okay. >> Do I think there's a way for the world.

to be structured? Yes. you're never. going to get rid of all the bad people, but that it's tolerant, you know, that. it deals with the bad people. sufficiently well, that the good people. have enough of a stake, that the. objectives are clear enough, that people. have meaning in their life, that they. can can it be structured so that it. works, >> right? >> Not perfectly, but well enough. Yeah, I. absolutely believe that it can. >> So, what. >> is Hold on. But the second question. where I'm more pessimistic is, is there. a path from here to there? Oh, so it.

could be done, but is there a path? >> Right. >> Things things are so wildly [ __ ] up. And you know, I'm watching. uh in many cases my friends. pulled into the administration. with a lot of momentum behind them. And. I'm watching something. seemingly. prevent. the promise that was there from being.

realized. Right. >> You're talking about RFK. >> Well, I'm talking about, you know, RFK. I was just with Jay Bacharia. Um. there's. there's something that when the good. people. get to Washington and try to do the. right thing, there is an architecture that. drains them, that wastes their efforts,

that places roadblocks, that. causes them to back their objectives way. off and. I don't know what it is, but it's disheartening to see it. I. mean, even just we we could talk about. the mRNA vaccines. This one was so. clear. We've got people in Washington who know. it. They can't apparently get these things.

off the market. Like, what the hell is. that? Um, if I was running the board. right now, I'd start playing the theme. song. that, uh, Pink Floyd song, Money. You. know, the beginning of that. >> That's what it is. >> It's all just profit. It's profit and. power. >> It's power. I don't think it's profit. >> It's part of it. Part of it is you have. to keep score. And profit is how you. keep score. You have to keep score. you. you want to be big shot swinging dick.

psychopath, you got to keep score of how. much money you make. So, it is profit. Profit's a big part of it. >> Uh it's definitely competition too. It's. um it's the thing that happens with any. corporation that has a obligation to its. stockholders. You got to keep making. more money. And if you're in the. business of distributing drugs, you're. not in the business of you're not doing. the lab work. Those aren't the guys that. are [ __ ] You're not like in the. trenches trying to figure out how these. things work. And no, the people that are.

trying to get they're the money people. The money people are crazy. And the. money people are infiltrating all the. science people and telling them what to. say about stuff. If scientists like as a. whole were always entirely objective. about every single subject they and. never ever subject to bribery like the. sugar people were like when they gave. him the sugar to say that it was all. saturated fats causing all these heart. disease and all these people are obese.

because of saturated fat then people. started eating margarine. This is all. money. It's all money. It's all so money. gets into the If the scientists were. true, if they were like knights and they. could not tell a lie, we would have. never got into half the messes that. we're in with pharmaceutical drug. companies, right? But they work for the. pharmaceutical drug companies and then. the people that are involved in the FDA. If they leave, they get a cushy job with. the pharmaceutical drug companies and. it's totally legal. So there's no. incentive to be a knight.

>> I know how corrupt the system is. I. mean, in some ways, I feel like nobody. knows better, but. I am disheartened to discover how little. power. even when the curtain is pulled back and. we can see the gross excesses and the. massive wave of destruction that was. created. Even in that circumstance, we can't make. the most basic.

alteration, right? taking the mRNA COVID shots off. the market. I don't understand how they should be so. embarrassed and horrified at the harm. they did that this should be an easy. one. >> So, how are they still selling it? How. are they still pushing it? Like, what is. this? What are they saying it does for. you now? I mean, I guess they're sticking with. their, you know, like 14th fallback.

position of it reduces the harm of. COVID. >> Now, is this because pulling it from the. market is an admission of guilt or an. admission of knowledge that it's not. effective and it's not necessary anymore. and then. >> something. >> The thing is they don't have to wor. because of the fact that it's classified. as a vaccine. They don't have to worry. about being sued. >> Well, they do. They do. How so? >> The immunity from liability is dependent. on.

there having been no fraud and there. clearly was fraud. So in light of that. >> I didn't know there was any caveats like. that. That's. >> Oh yeah. >> Oh interesting. >> It's much more interesting. >> Yeah. But is that what is how do you. define fraud? Because they've sold drugs. where they had like 10 studies and one. of them was good. They're like we got a. good study. Let's try this one. >> Okay. >> They the. insufficient amount of safety testing.

that was done before these things were. released. was done with mRNA vaccines produced. in a process that did not involve DNA. The. product that was actually injected into. billions of people involved DNA plasmids. and there is massive contamination in. the shots that were actually delivered. including the SV40 promoter Simeon virus.

40. >> We talked about that the last time we. were on, right? >> I think we probably did. >> I think we did. But in any case, the. point is for you to put your process one. drug [clears throat] through safety. testing and then inject people with. something different that has other. components that were not tested is. fraudulent. >> Can I stop you real quick and just so. this could be standalone? Could you just. explain the whole SV40 thing to people. and how it became an issue? So.

there are lots of techniques that are. used in order to generate a lot of. product. Right? In this case, what they. used is a plasmid, which is a circular. piece of DNA in order to basically. create vats that would grow the product. necessary that would later be coated in. the lipid nano particle. So they used. bacteria to do the heavy lifting. There is a requirement that you purify.

DNA out and there are standards which. are way too high but there are standards. that you can't go above in terms of how. much DNA contamination you can have left. over from your production process but in. this case it isn't even that the quality. control is garbage and there was too. much stuff left over because the process. didn't work very well. The problem is. that there was a much more painstaking. way of producing technically the same.

product that did not involve DNA. plasmids at all. And so what you've got. left over in these vials and we're. talking about largely the work of Kevin. Mccernin who took vials that were given. to him, stuff that was actually injected. in people. There was leftover stuff in. the vials and he tested a bunch of these. things, found DNA contamination across. the board. So what you're left with is a. promoter which is a genetic trigger that.

we know is common in lab techniques and. it originally comes from Simeon virus 40. and we know that it's carcinogenic. So that promoter is left over in vials. from shots that were actually injected. into people. And that means that all of. the things that we were told about the. potential for these mRNA shots to. integrate into your genome, that was. impossible, they told us, right? Well,

first of all, it's not impossible. There's lots of interesting stuff that. goes on in cells that involves, you. know, reverse transcription and things. like that. But even what we were told. that there's no DNA, so integration is. not an issue is a lie because there is. DNA left over in these vials. And it's. not just some old DNA. It's DNA with the. SV40 promoter, which is a genetic. engineering tool that has carcinogenic. potential. So, seems to me this is clear.

fraud. You can't inject a different. product into the public on the basis of. safety testing that was done with. something produced by a different. process. >> Could you explain how they got this SV40. from these monkeys? like what what and. how it got into these vaccines and other. vaccines in the past as well, right? >> I will tell you what I think I remember. from the story. I should probably have. brushed up on it if we were going to. talk about this, but I believe that the. story is that.

in the production of early polio. vaccines, monkey kidneys were used and. SV 40 was a virus that I think was. unknown that showed up that because. you're using cells and viruses infect. cells that SV40 showed up in that. process. So anyway, I wish I was more certain of. what the story is. >> So the monkey kidneys, the virus from. the monkey kidneys got into whatever.

this vaccine was and then that infected. people with SV40. I mean, is there a a. correlating or a corresponding rise in. cancer among the time where they were. doing that? >> Um, I don't know the answer to that. question. I don't know how well studied. it's been. >> So why do we think that it causes. cancer? >> Oh, because we know it does. can see. that it transforms cells and they become. cancerous. >> Oh, so in a lab in a lab scenario, but. what about with humans? Do we know that.

it does it with humans? >> Um, we know that it transforms human. cells. I believe that is a fair statement. >> And at the very least, your position is. that it's absolutely not what they. tested. >> Well, yeah, it doesn't matter. The SV40. thing is alarming. the simple fact that. they tested it a different product than. they injected into people. That's where. the fraud is. >> Was it because it was a rush to ma make. to massroduce? >> I mean, >> what do you think? Why the decisions.

be made to do it a different way? >> Well, I mean, I think the obvious reason. is because in the one case, you get a. much purer product which is much more. likely to get through the safety testing. and in the other case you get the rapid. expansion of production. But that's. fraud, >> right? Yeah. You tested a different. product. >> Yeah. [sighs]. >> And the one you tested didn't work. >> Well, yeah. Well, [laughter]. >> even the first one sucked. >> Yeah. It didn't. It didn't. >> It's It's amazing how many people to. defend it. They will defend it just like.

they defend the [ __ ] flying spaghetti. monster. Whatever it is, it they'll. defend it. They'll defend it. It becomes. a part of their their religion. >> Yes. >> They'll still tell you it saved millions. of lives. Like, how do you know that? Like, how do you know if it didn't work? Like if it really didn't work, like how. do you if you still got COVID and you. got it real bad, like how do you know it. did anything good? How do we really know. that it did anything good to anybody? >> We don't. It didn't, >> right? But that narrative is really hard. for people to swallow. So they keep. saying it saved millions of lives. Like.

I wish that was true. >> Saved millions of lives in a computer. model. >> But isn't that computer model dependent. upon it not causing infection and not. causing transmission? the the computer. model is pure garbage. And for one. thing, the fact that it's a computer. model in the first place means that you. cannot test the hypothesis that it saved. or didn't save lives. Right? >> You could potentially run a computer. model and you could generate a. hypothesis that you would then need to. go test with real world data. You don't. get to tell us that it saved millions of.

lives based on the fact that your. computer spit out that number. I'm. sorry, that's not how that works. >> Reason why they have to keep belittling. Ivormect. Imagine if we get to a. position where AI can do definitive. breakdowns of the efficacy of certain. compounds at stopping certain diseases. like COVID 19 and it says that with this. dose with this body weight you do it. this amount of times and it should offer. like 70% protection. >> Yeah. and and and then they run that. into what what are what's the actual.

data on the vaccine causing side effects. and injury and we just get this horrible. reality in front of us that I think. everybody who took the shot is really. wanting to avoid the mind [ __ ] of. knowing that you got used as a little. piggy bank for the pharmaceutical drug. companies to push some experimental [ __ ]. on you and tell you that it's both safe. and effective. It's both safe and which. by the way, didn't Fouchy use that same. term for act back in the day, [laughter]. didn't he?

>> He would. I mean, it's a great slogan, right? >> Safe and effective. See if he did. See. if you could attribute the term safe and. effective to Fouchy talking about act. during the HIV crisis. >> But the problem is to your point about. AI. They. these people are not fools and they. understand that the AI extrapolates from. what it's read. So they're priming it. >> Yeah. >> Right. They're priming it so that it. can't do the proper work, which means. that this potentially extremely valuable.

tool, frightening, yes, but potentially. extremely valuable tool is going to be. compromised because it is going to be. intentionally misled with phony. articles, papers, all of that stuff. Long-term act appears safe and. effective. Oh my goodness. 1989. Wow. There's a video of him saying it. >> That's where I remember now. >> He was saying the reason why we. prescribe ACT is that it's the only drug.

that is both safe and effective. >> Something along He probably cut that. out. It might not be his actual quote, >> but whatever he said, he was talking. about it the same way he talked about. the COVID vaccine. He was talking about. something that definitely [ __ ] killed. people. ACT was a horrible, horrible. drug that killed more people than it was. a cancer drug. It was it was. chemotherapy. Like when when has when. have people ever been told to take. chemotherapy forever, >> right? >> What? >> Yeah. He's he's a monstrous person. And.

the idea I mean, I think any preemptive. pardon that is. >> wild, >> non-specific, like. >> non-specific that goes back to 2014. >> Yeah. This you can't have that. This is. a legally unsupportable idea because it. effectively creates two classes of. citizens. It violates equal protection. under the law, right? You can't have. people who are have cart blanch to. violate the law. You know, >> it's also what the kids call sus.

>> Yeah, it's super sus. >> That's [ __ ] [laughter] super sus. That's super sus. And then he also. pardoned his whole family. Like, yo, [laughter] what did you guys do? >> Yeah, he pardoned. So, that's the. question is does the autopen stuff stand. up? >> Uh, I think they're going to not push. it. I think they're going to not push it. because I bet they all use it. I bet. Trump is busy. You know, he doesn't have. time. Does he even have any lines. written his name? He's got a lot of. lines. >> A lot of lines. Up and down lines. Yeah.

>> If I was Yeah, use the pen. [laughter]. >> And I guess maybe you say use the pen. and you know you're allowed to. >> You know what I mean? Like docuign. If. you get a Docu Sign document in your. email, you get to sign it with your. pre-approved signature. Yeah. [ __ ]. weird. >> Well, I mean, that's I think I think. you're conflating a couple things and I. don't really know. I'm no I'm no expert. But it seems to me the auto pen, you. know, I think its purpose was to like. >> sign autograph photos and, you know, proforma documents. It's not there to.

sign important stuff. Pardon? Certainly. not. >> That's a crazy one. >> It's a crazy one. Somebody else can press that button, >> right? Especially if your president. happens to oh, I don't know, be. demented, right? >> You know. Yeah. So, >> yeah, he's out of his gourd and. everybody knows it. >> Yeah. >> What is your suspicion about that second. debate? The debate that they had where. he totally fell apart. >> Do you think that they set him up for. that by putting it on late at night and. that they probably didn't give him his.

right vitamins? >> Um, look, they clearly set him up. >> Right. >> Right. For those of us who were tracking. his mental decrepitude since before he. was elected, there's no way that they thought that he. was going to do okay in that debate. >> The second one. >> degree agreeing to it was conspicuous. And so I think it was part of forcing. him out. >> What they debated in the past, it's. like, you know, Biden wasn't that bad.

He got some good ones in there. You. know, it wasn't too bad. I was like, whatever they put him on for that. debate, pretty solid. >> Yeah. >> You know, whatever cocktail they didn't. give him the cocktail for that one where. he like we beat Medicaid. Like what? [laughter] And that's what everybody had. grown accustomed to. And I remember. someone that I know that I'm friends. with. Sent me a message. Um, don't you. know that Biden has a stutter? That's. what this is all about. >> Oh, you remember that stutter thing? >> Yeah. This guy was I go I started. sending him all these videos of Biden.

when he was younger, right? He was a. powerful speaker. >> Powerful speaker. Maybe a [ __ ]. artist, but at least. >> I wouldn't say a powerful speaker, but. certainly. >> wasn't bad. Wasn't bad. He had some good. ones. There's a couple of speeches in. there. They're pretty solid. Yeah. >> When he was uh. >> it was not it was all after he had the. disaster when he was running for. president. So in ' 88, you know, he's. running for president. He got caught. plagiarizing. >> Yeah. But it was after that, like when he was. uh vice president, he was pretty solid.

You know, he had a few solid speeches. And then you see him now and it's like, "Oh boy, this is crazy." He trails off. in his words at the end. >> What is this one? Oh, here it is. >> Made available because it's the only. drug that thus far has been shown in. scientifically controlled trials to be. safe and effective. It isn't a question. of there are a lot of drugs around and. only one. Yo, imagine that. Imagine saying that. and being so wrong that who knows how.

many people died from that, including. people that had no symptoms at all. >> They just tested positive for for HIV. and they just do them up. >> Yep. Yeah. He's a cold-hearted son of a. [ __ ]. >> Yeah. >> And what did they what were they were. they using a PCR method to detect. whether or not people had HIV back then? >> I don't think so. I don't think it. existed. >> Well, didn't when did Carrie Mullis when. did he devise that? Because this is like let's put that into. perplexity. When was the PCR.

>> would have been. >> 93 Nobel Prize. >> 93. >> No, but that's way after that's way. after 83. >> 83. >> Oh, so what did they use to determine. whether or not people. >> but I don't think I don't think they. would have. >> Well, I don't know. >> Did they Did they use PCR method to. determine whether or not people had HIV? Because they definitely did with COVID, right? >> Oh, yeah. And what were the um. accidental positives? The false. positives, what were those? How many? >> Oh, well, they had the cycle threshold.

turned up so high that it would amplify. any contamination, >> right? They were just looking to. establish that COVID was everywhere. >> So, but what HIV diagnosis primarily. through three types of tests, >> antibbody test, antigen, antibbody. tests, and nucleic acids. Nucleic. nucleic acid tests. >> Yep. Okay. >> Yeah. So, not PCR. >> So, not PCR. >> Y. >> Um, so how many cycles. were they they had it to a massive.

number at one point in time, right? >> I think it was in the 40s, something. like that. >> And. what kind of false positives would you. get if you had something like that? >> Oh, massive. I mean, especially in the. context that these machines existed. So. basically the idea is that you get um. you get a doubling for each of these. cycles and. that means that if there is the tiniest. fragment in your environment that you.

will end up seeing it come through as a. positive. So imagine that you're in a. hospital testing patients, right? Are. there going to be fragments of COVID. around in in the middle of uh you know. 2020? Sure. there going to be fragments. around. So it will find that fragment. It will pop up. Oh, you've got a. positive, right? If you're in a testing. center, it's the same thing. So anyway, Carrie Mullis, of course, warned us. about this. He said it was a completely. inappropriate technology for that. purpose. >> I think he did that quite a bit before.

CO even, wasn't it? Wasn't that. conversation I think he when did he die. in 2019? Is that correct? >> Yeah. >> And so I when was that conversation? There's a conversation where he's. belittling Fouchy. He's like he doesn't. know what he's talking about. He's a. bureaucrat. Yep. I think it's a. different conversation. >> and he was but no he was talking in that. same conversation maybe it's a different. time he said the same thing but that you. it's this is not what you would use. >> not an appropriate use for the. technology. Yep. >> This is the guy that invented it. >> Yep. Like.

it's just the the fact that someone. could be the the man that pushed that. and make it all the way through in his. career to to co and do the same thing is. so wild. >> Well, you know, I don't even I don't. really even know. what Anthony Fouchy. >> that video. >> Yeah, this is it. >> 96. >> 96 96. So Fouchi must have been using it for. whatever. What? Maybe in '96 they were. using it for HIV. Who knows?

>> Well, wait a second. In that video he. says that but I know that I know that. video. >> Yeah, >> he talks about the cycle thresholds and. the inappropriate use of that tech. >> Hear what he says. Let's hear what he. says. I may be conflating two different. speeches that he where he complained. about him. But I know in this when he's. t he was telling he's saying he doesn't. know what he's talking about. >> about the humanity that that that wants. to go to all the details and stuff and. listen you know these guys like Fouchy. get up there and start talking you know. he doesn't know anything really about.

anything and I'd say that to his face. nothing the man thinks you can take a. blood sample and stick it in an electron. microscope and if it's got a virus in. there you'll know it. He doesn't. understand electron microscopy and he. doesn't understand medicine and he does. he should not be in a position like he's. in. Most of those guys up there on the. top are just total administrative people. and they don't know anything about. what's going on on the bottom. You know, those guys have got an agenda which is. not what we would like them to have.

being that we pay for them to take care. of our health in some way. They've got a. personal kind of agenda. They make up. their own rules as they go. They change. them when they want to and they smuggly. like Tony Fouchy does not mind going on. television in front of the people that. pay his salary and lie directly into the. camera. You can't expect the sheep. >> Crazy, right? Crazy. That's a crazy. statement from a brilliant man in 1996. >> Yeah, it's an amazing how precient that.

uh statement is. >> But it's what we were talking about like. people that get into positions of power. Um, yes. And I also think, you know, Fouchy. was the highest paid federal employee. There's a reason for that. And I don't. think we exactly know the reason. >> Let's play that Pink Floyd song again. Well, but you know, >> presumably that's not where the bulk of. his wealth is coming from, but it is a. measure of his position in the hierarchy.

>> and his ability to ensure that other. people. exceed their wildest expectations. I. mean, if you can get that guy to push. your drug, you know, you're making a lot. of money. >> Yeah. But I even think it's a mistake to. think of him in the medical and public. health context because what we now know. is that he was part of dualuse research. that this is actually a military project. to create bioweapons through a loophole.

We're not allowed to create bioweapons, but you are allowed to do research that. leads to bioweapons as long as it has a. medical dimension. >> Again, this is something that you put. into someone's head and they'll go, "No, no, no, no. NBC says different." Right. >> Washington Post says different. Stop. Stop. Stop. What you're saying is crazy, but. >> there's a lot of there's a lot of. evidence that points to that. >> Yeah. >> And it's not something that hasn't been. both discussed and done in the past. >> This is what's hard for normies to.

swallow. It's hard. >> Yep. And not only that, but because it. is inherently not visible to the public. You know, we have sort of the public. health justification for work. You know, why why were they enhancing viruses in. the lab, Joe? >> Right. >> Oh, they were doing it because they. wanted to know what a virus would look. like so that we would be aware of how to. fend it off if it ever leapt out of. nature. That's a garbage story. >> Also, you guys did a really shitty job. of figuring out to the point where you.

can make a cure cuz you had no idea. You. had no [ __ ] idea. >> No advantage came from that work at all. despite the fact that they were studying. exactly the right viruses. There's. something just not right. >> Especially if you were going to make a. you wanted to use something as a. bioweapon, wouldn't you take a virus and. make it more contagious and you could. say, "I'm just studying it. I'm just. studying it." Like you're making. something that's going to kill us all. Are you real? Well, you know, this is. one of these frustrating places where I.

think it's perfectly obvious and should. be to anybody who is trained in any. related discipline that the story does. not make sense. that the chances that. you are going to enhance a virus's. infectivity and that it is going to get. out and become endemic to humans far. exceeds the chances that you are going. to learn something by increasing its. ability to infect human tissue that. allows you to fend off some natural. virus that emerges. The story literally.

doesn't make sense. >> It's a pyromaniac, an arsonist who works. for the fire department. Y. >> that's what it is. >> That's what it is. So what we have to. infer and I'm borrowing from Robert. Malone here who at the uh Brownstone. conference that I was recently at. pointed out that the mentality amongst. guys like Fouchy is identical to the one. in uh Doctor Strange Love that they're. >> Yeah, it's a really deep point, right?

that mania about, you know, nuclear. weapons and mine shafts and we can still. win this one even though, you know, nuclear war is happening. That same kind. of mindset where these people are. actually crazy [snorts] enough to create. new human pathogens for which they have. no escape plan, right? They're crazy. enough to do that because in their. demented minds, you know, there's going. to be some biological war and we're. going to need to have these weapons,

right? These people belong in a mental. institution. Creating new human. pathogens is the exact opposite of. creating wealth. And you know, there's. going to be some shill who pops up and. says, "Brett is totally off with this. What we have learned through this work. is the reason why we're all alive today. If it wasn't for their brave [laughter]. work, there are these people that just. step in. There'll be people that do it. because they want online clout. There's.

going to be people that are doing it. because, you know, they're part of a. [ __ ] chatbot network that's attacking. this point. >> It's But the reality is it's a crazy. idea. Especially if you've never come up. with a [ __ ] cure. You've been. studying these respiratory viruses for. how long? How much money have you spent? And you know, you got no cure. You don't. even have a clue. You're doing a. terrible job. Not even a terrible job. You know, >> but if you were doing what you said you. were doing, you're doing a terrible job. But it makes way more sense that what. you're doing is trying to make a.

terrible virus. >> so you could have it. >> It's almost like I don't know the the. analogy is a loose one, but you know, um, you know, Munchhousen. Yes. by. proxy, injuring people to save them, right? The. idea that the pandemic came from the. same guy who then stepped in to play the. hero is a little alarming. >> It is a little alarming, especially.

because uh that wasn't initially known, >> right? >> Yeah. >> No. Oh, here here's a hero. You know, you've got, you know, Trump saying all. kinds of crazy stuff and at least we. have a sober scientist there to keep him. in line. >> And he was a soldier of the left. Like. they were like, "Yes, he's our guy. >> He if you trust we trust in Fouchy and. we trust in science." It was it was. crazy to watch. Like, hey guys, these. are the same people we were all. complaining about six months ago. Like, what are you the [ __ ] are you talking. about? You all had no faith in the.

pharmaceutical drug companies a year. ago, and now all of a sudden you're. trusting them? Yeah, it's absolutely. wild. >> Wild. And it's wild how gullible a a. large swath of our society is. And. that's why I think like a better. education for young people to at least. give them a framework to understand. what's happening to you and how you're. getting bamboozled and and. why why it's been going on as long as. it's going on. And how do you get your.

mind out of that? See, I mean, look, I. can see I'm really enthusiastic if we. get through the immediate bottleneck. that we face that there is a way to. build school that functions by not, you. know, using this archaic mechanism where. you're sitting people facing the, you. know, the chalkboard watching somebody. scratch stuff on there. School should be. built out of um exercises and.

experiences that teach these things. through living them, right? That. reinforce those patterns not as. abstractions on the board, but as. experiences. You could teach teach all. sorts of things this way. And then the. person has it built in in some deep way. rather than, you know, in some quadrant. of their abstract thought library. >> Um I totally agree. If we're going to. remain human, which I don't think we're. going to. So, if we're not going to.

remain human, and I'm not just saying. you like you and I are probably gonna. remain human, but I mean as a species, yeah, if we're not going to remain. human, it will be quaint to look back on. the days just like we look back on. people that take a [ __ ] horse across. the country, that's how we're going to. look at, you had to acquire data from. like constant study and repetition. That's how you got your skills. when. it's going to be like Neo in the Matrix. They put that chip in his head and he. goes, "I know jiujitsu." Remember that, right? That's what it's going to be. like. It's going to be like that. Like.

the the idea of acquiring knowledge and. skills by hard work and labor is going. to be like before people figured out. doors. It's like this is a dumb way to. do things. Like we have a way more. effective way. Like why do you want to. go through all the hardship to get. information and to be intelligent and. aware when you can just be intelligent. and aware? Like why do we think that. it's so because that was the only method. to be intelligent and aware in the past. >> Yeah, but Joe, >> you're gonna sign up and you're gonna. take the chip. [laughter].

>> We're all going to take the chip cuz we. all want to be happy just like everybody. has a phone now. >> Well, the problem though is. we don't know how to be anything other. than human. We are losing our humanity. without a plan for being something else. without a conceivable plan. We are. cavemen and cavemen is what we will be. until we die. We have no plan to live in. the cities. We have no plan. We will. hunt with flint. [laughter]. >> We are cavemen. >> Well, the farther we get from the mode.

that we evolved in, the more. [ __ ] up and directionless we find. ourselves. >> That's true. However, that's the. direction we're going. So, I say buckle. up. [laughter]. I don't know what else to say about it. because it's all just I feel like it's. all just kind of mental masturbation. right now because no one really knows. what it's going to be like. We could. speculate. We could prepare. >> Well, that's that's the key thing is. people have to admit that. >> Yes. >> Right. All the people who want to tell.

you how it's going to be don't know. >> Well, they're also trying to stop people. from stopping them. They they don't want. people to be alarmed and so they'll give. you the most rose colored glasses. version. Except for Elon. He was the. only one that was saying like there was. a robot, one of those robot dogs, and he. I forget the exact quote, but it was. something to tune of one day that's. going to move so fast you could barely. see it and it's going to be shooting. guns and it's going to be powered by AI.

>> Yep. >> Get ready. >> Yeah. That's what those things are going. to be. >> Yeah. >> And that's that's true, too. That's. that's part of it, too. It's like. weapons are just going to be insane. All. jets are going to be fighter jets. controlled by AI. They're way better. than fighter jets controlled by AI. >> Of course, the last thing you want is a. fighter jet constrained by the fact that. the pilot's going to black out if it. pulls too many G's. >> Exactly. You not just more G's, but. they're way better in dog fights. They. win 100% of the time when they do AI. versus uh trained effective.

>> You know when they'll stop winning 100%. of the time? >> When? >> When the other side has them, too. >> Yeah. Well, that's right. That's the. That's like the mutually assured. destruction argument. [laughter] Maybe. that that's our new one. It used to be. nukes. Now it's AI. >> Oh, it is. >> Well, I'm hoping AI just takes the when. it becomes sentient and it is our new. digital god. I hope it is just everybody. calm the [ __ ] down. Settle down. Live. your life. But now we're you made the. new boss. >> We're going to be kind. We're going to.

be benevolent dictators. >> You You've raised God a couple times. >> I'm being joking about that. This one of. the reasons why I am is cuz uh I when I. got up this morning after my crazy. dream, I went to the gym. Uh I put on. this uh documentary on the Sumerian. kings list because I've been really. fascinated by this. It's a really loony. um thing that they found uh in Iraq and. in several different sites and it varies. slightly, but it's all this list of.

people who ran the earth for tens of. thousands of years. That's what their. reign was like. tens of thousands of. years and then there's this huge flood. and then afterwards the timelines become. way more realistic. It's like hundred. years. Then he ran for he he was a king. for 50 years. But they have it. documented to like eight kings over the. entire course of their civilization. including the places that these kings. were ruled that they ruled that actually. exist. Like these are ancient cities.

that are actually built on top of even. more ancient cities that are below them. And these people in these. bizarre kings lists, they're trying to. say that this was an actual human being. This is an actual human being that lived. that long. I don't know what that means, but they are the ones that have all this. crazy stuff with the Anunnaki and from. heaven to earth came and that they have. they had an understanding of stuff that.

was like way beyond what we thought they. were capable of. They have Pythagoream's. theorem. They had they had that a. thousand years before Pythagoras, >> which is weird because this civilization. sort of pops up out of nowhere. >> Well, there is. >> that's why I'm bringing up God a lot. >> Okay. Well, hold I want to get back to. God, but I will just say that there is. this um increasingly. fascinating thread about a recurrent. disaster cycle and the possibility that.

sophisticated civilizations. get erased and that we. >> rediscover. >> rediscover. Exactly. >> Yes. >> Um and I, you know, I wish that was a. crazy story. It sounds like it should. be, but I will say um the evidence is. far too compelling to dismiss it. So, I. think I think we have to be open to that. possibility. And, you know, we seem to. be heading into. um one of these catastrophic upheavalss,

which is something, you know, while. we're busy [ __ ] around with climate. change, which is um not what we're. pretending it is, we are not dealing. with this hazard to our civilization and. figuring out how, >> right, >> how to protect ourselves. and one of. many, right? There's natural disasters. we're not paying attention to of those. three eye atlas everybody paid attention. to, which is a very weird thing. >> Yeah. >> But yeah, I mean, you're you're you're.

completely right. I mean, it's um. we're just such a strange species what. we choose to focus on. It's it's very. we're very bizarre and that we're so. illogical. We're squandering the most. spectacular conceivable opportunity. And. it's tragic that we can't do better. It's really, it's sad because, you know, we we're like that close. You know, we. we figured out a lot and we're going to.

squander it over some kind of stupid. game. >> Also, I think what a huge disservice to. not recognize that this is possibly a. rebuilding of civilization, not just the. emergence of civilization. And the more. they look, the more evidence points in. that direction. And the more people push. back so hard, there they get so angry at. the ideas of it. >> They sure do. >> They get so angry. >> And every time a new discovery happens, a date gets pushed back and it gets. pushed back again. it pushed back again. that you know there was a um Michael.

Button had a uh video that he put out. about there's some sort of inscriptions. and writings on bone that they found in. the Americas. I believe it was in Mexico. and they it's completely fossilized. and they measured the strata around this. you know so they get a comparative age. of the area and they're talking about it. being 200,000 years old so that means. 200,000 years ago possibly if this is.

correct there was humans in the Americas. >> right which you know if you're um of a. disaster cycle mindset. >> How many have we been through? >> Right. >> Right. >> And but so I guess the point is. the fact that humans may have been here. 200,000 years ago doesn't affect the. story of how the humans that we know of.

here arrived in after the last ice age, for example. So those two things could. be true simultaneously, >> of course. Um, and. it's just amazing how small-minded. academics are. And. >> why aren't they curious? Like that's. what's crazy. Like why would you stick. to your gun so much that like the poor. people that uh were trying to dispute. Clovis first? Like that one guy I I. forget his name. Jamie, see if you can. find that guy's name. It became like.

attacked like ruthlessly by other. archaeologists. They just did not want. to believe that this guy was correct and. that there was people that were here. long before the Clovis people. And so. they were smearing him. And then White. Sands, New Mexico, they find these. footprints that are 22,000 years old. So. they know for a fact there was people. here pre-Clovis, which is just nuts. Like what did you guys do? Why did you. attack him? >> Well, and what are the rules of the. goddamn game? Right. Right. The problem.

is that these. >> Michael Waters and Thomas Stafford of. Texas A&M University. >> So yeah. So, so those guys are. ruthlessly attacked and by who? By the. people that are supposed to be in charge. of disseminating correct information at. the highest level which is nuts. The. problem is that we have come to accept a. proxy which is the consensus of a field.

for the. real. uh indicator of correctness which is. predictive power. And. you know, humans are just not good at. this because for one thing, humans do. get involved in a competition for power. And so people will shut down a correct. idea because it's not theirs. And it. will elevate somebody they don't want. elevated. So as far as I'm concerned, >> it's gross. >> It's so gross and it's so common.

>> It's. destructive of something our. civilization is entitled to. We are. entitled to the productivity of. scientific work and instead what we get. is catfighting and it prevents the. highquality stuff from. >> It's embarrassing too when you see. professional intellectuals who are. catfighting on Twitter. You're like good. lord like do did you not understand what. that exposes about your character? Like. that's all I need to know about you,

>> right? >> Like you're gross. This is gross. This. is a gross way for a really smart person. to behave. This is a these are the words. of a gross human being. >> Absolutely. >> And that's more common than not. And. that's what's really nuts is that. anybody that's challenging any of the. current consensus, you immediately get. labeled like the worst names in the. book. And it's just you get connected to. the worst ideas in society and like, holy [ __ ] you guys are like little. kids. Well, I I can't stand it when.

somebody. somebody will try to shut me down. I. will be saying something and they'll. come back at me as if I'm morally broken. for making an analytical argument which. with which they disagree. And my feeling. is. first of all, if you know me and you've. seen me be right before, then the fact. that you and I disagree should cause you. to have this thought. You should think, "Huh, that's interesting that he.

disagrees with me, >> right? >> Maybe he's wrong for the reason I think. he is, or maybe he's right, and I need. to know. I'll be better off if I do.". But you shouldn't be trying to silence. me. You should be trying to figure out. whether I know something you don't. >> Right. >> Right. >> But so frequently that is not people's. response. It is, "You must stop saying. that.". >> Right. >> Right. Why? I can be wrong. Right. Being. wrong is part of how you get to be. right. So this instinct to get people to.

people with whom you analytically. disagree to stop speaking is totally. counterproductive for our collective. goal which is to be better, to know. more, to accomplish more. Right. >> Right. Right. And the only reason why. people shut you down is they don't have. a strong enough argument. If they had a. really strong argument and your argument. was nonsense, they would tell you what. was going on. But to shut you down and. to stop you from talking altogether, it's like you must comply. And it.

becomes a power struggle. And it becomes. a power struggle by people who feel. virtuous, like they feel like they're in. the right. So they get a chance to exert. that power ruthlessly because they're. correct. And you have to stop Hitler. >> Yep. Absolutely. >> Yeah, dude. We just did three hours like. that. >> We did. >> Um, thank you. Thank you for everything. It's always great to talk to you. It's. always a lot of fun. >> It's great show. Glad to be here. And uh. it's good to see you again. >> Darkhorse podcast. Tell everybody where. they could find that. Do you What's your. website? Is it darkhorpodcast.com?

>> Um I wish I knew the website. >> You know your own website? That's. >> people will find it. But it's also um. it's on you're on everything, right? >> Uh yes, we've been remonetized and they. have taken the cap off our channel on. YouTube. We are on. >> There you go. >> Um you guys got hit during the co days, right? We were demonetized for four plus. years. >> And what's more, what they did not. acknowledge, they acknowledged that they. demonetized us, but they capped our.

channel, so it stopped growing. And as. soon as they remonetized us, it started. growing again. >> Oh god, how gross. He who controls the. algorithm controls the narrative. >> That's the devil. >> Yeah. All right. Well, I love you, buddy. Thank you for being here. You, too, brother. Bye, everybody. >> [music].