Joe Rogan Experience #2390 - Jack Carr

Joe Rogan podcast, check it out. The Joe. Rogan experience. TRAIN BY DAY, JOE. ROGAN PODCAST BY NIGHT. ALL DAY. ALL RIGHT, my man. What's happening? How are you? Great to see you. >> Always great to see you. I've been so. looking forward to this. I've been going. 1,000 miles an hour for it seems like. >> Me, too, man. And I've I've been really. looking forward to talking to you about. this book cuz I know that you've been. obsessed. You've been obsessed by this era in. human history. Tell us about it. Tell.

us. Yeah, yeah. So, this 1968 Vietnam. and I just launched the book tour not. last night but the night before cuz last. night was Comedy Mothership, Kill Tony, which was amazing. We had a blast. It. was so crazy. >> show to go to. Did they vet any of those. people, by the way, before they come up? No. Didn't look Didn't look like it. >> brilliant people, great comics, terrible. comics. >> fantastic. That's the best show ever. That was fantastic. But, yeah, I kicked. off the book tour with David Morrell who. who created Rambo back in 1972 with. First Blood. So, that was a huge honor. for me. He's been an inspiration to me. in my whole life. And uh wrote a series.

of books. in the '80s, Brotherhood of the Rose, Fraternity of the Stone, League of Night. and Fog, which were just incredible. And. I got to kick off the book tour with him. out there. Signed a baby for the first. time. I've never signed a baby. So, someone brought a baby through and asked. me to sign their kid. I was like, "It does." And then then I realized they. just wanted me to sign the shirt on the. baby, which is a little better than the. actual skin of the baby. So, uh so, I. did that. >> they would tattoo the baby. >> That was like two new tattoos came. through. So, I saw two new very large. tattoos of crossed tomahawks. Yeah, yeah. >> Nice. >> That's crazy. I mean, you've been had. that for a while. You've been had people.

doing that for a while for you. But, I. remember the first time I got one. I. think it was after I think it was after. I was on or right around the same time. the first time I was on so like 2020 the. first time I saw it and I texted you and. sent it. I was like, "Someone tattooed. the crossed tomahawks on themselves.". And you know, I cuz I knew you you'd had. that with with you for a while. And if. it was weird the first time someone you. see it like now it's kind of must be. kind of normal cuz a lot of people have. tattoos of you. It's not normal. It's not normal. You You know, it's. weird. It's very weird. They'll probably. grow to regret them. Never. But, that.

doesn't happen with tattoos, does it? No. Not mine. I don't regret mine. I. like mine. >> life story. It's a life story. >> Yeah, it's you know, depends on what you got. Yeah. >> And timing and maybe if you got. someone's name on there that's no longer. a part of your life. >> Yeah, maybe the wife wants you to get. that removed. Perhaps. Turn it into a. snake. >> I've heard that exactly. Exactly. But, yeah, the book 1968 Vietnam and I. thought this was going to be the the. book that was going to take me the least. amount of time because I thought I had. this foundation of knowledge when it.

comes to warfare, Vietnam in particular, those lessons. I've had the influence of. popular culture when it comes to the. '60s and Vietnam as well growing up. So, I thought I was I was well prepared to. dive into this world. And I didn't want. to just say that they're listening to. Creedence Clearwater Revival and that. it's 1968 and then essentially drop a. contemporary thriller into the '60s and. Vietnam 1968. Instead, I wanted someone who lived. through that era to know that I put in. the effort and any sentence had to be. written through the lens of 1968 without. the benefit of 50 plus years of.

hindsight. So, if someone is you know, 70 years old, 50 years old, 20 years. old, they only have their life. experience up to that point to. make a decision for perspective on an. event. And that took a lot more time than I. thought. I got a dictionary from 1969. I couldn't find the one from 1968 I. wanted so I got a dictionary from 1969. to look how that how terms were defined. back then. A lot of maps from the era. and it was just a took a lot longer, which is why we're here in October and. not in January or June when the book was.

supposed to come out. Oh, wow. So, what. So, when you get a dictionary from 1968, what is the difference? Well, that's. what I wanted to to find out. >> a lot of difference? Uh I'm sure there. is, but I was looking at just some. specific terms that I can't remember. what they are right now. But, I. didn't want to look up Yeah, I didn't. want to Google something today. I wanted. to be doing this research as if I was in. the '60s. And so, if I needed to look. something up whether it was spelling or. whatever else, I wanted to use that. instead of like asking Google machine. So, I just wanted to transport myself.

back in time. And yeah, that was. that was quite the endeavor. I didn't. expect it at the outset. So, I feel like. this that war in particular is uh. it's like. World War II was what we think America. is. Vietnam is what America really is. That is a. very perceptive insight. So, World War. we were fighting evil. We were stopping. the rise of Hitler and the Third Reich.

>> Yeah. World World War just. Vietnam was [ __ ] nonsense. And it. still to this day it it infuriates. people that participated in it. It. infuriates people who lost family. members. It does didn't make any sense. It was. birth on a lie. It was complete false flag event that. our own government Yeah. They they lied.

to us and told us that that the Gulf of. Tonkin there was an incident where one. of our battleships was attacked and it. wasn't. It was all a lie. And it was just to get us into this. [ __ ] war. And there's a whole bunch of people that. made a whole bunch of money and a bunch. of people died. And at the end of it everybody felt. broken. And during it there was a. gigantic cultural revolution in the. middle of it. That's the real America. Yeah, you know, it's uh.

it's something that I explore in the. book and with the benefit of hindsight. it's certainly more. um it it. it's more not relevant but. you you can you can draw that out for. sure the benefit of hindsight. And I'm. trying to write this thing in 1968 from. these guys. So, they're having these. conversations with only that. information. So, they don't yet know. who's making a ton of money. They're not. knowing about Bell Helicopters and and. all the rest of the stuff. They're not. They don't really know yet about Gulf of. Tonkin. They just know that 1968 is the.

bloodiest year thus far of the war and. it's going to be the bloodiest year of. the war so far, which is why I set it in. that year. Uh well, 58 over 58,000 in total. And I. forget exactly how many for that. particular year. But, we lost more. people that year and had more people. wounded than in any other year of the. war. But, over 58,000. people died in Vietnam on our side to. say nothing of the Vietnamese. Um and. NVA, Viet Cong, civilians, you know, all. put together. But, certainly a lot more. than 58,000. Um and overall what? Yeah,

looking back. So, I'm trying to look at. it through the lens of the day. And when. you look at that the domino theory we. look back and say, "Of course the rest. of the world wouldn't have fallen into. communism.". But, at the time I'm trying to put. myself into the shoes of the people. making these decisions. And uh they're. at least for Southeast Asia there was. the the threat of other countries. falling. Even if they did, would that. have meant anything long-term for the. rest of us today? It's it's hard to say that it would. have. But, I mean the whole thing is so. is so heartbreaking.

And you're right, when we got back from. from World War II uh those guys had. parades. They got back to work. They. used the GI Bill. They built this. country into what it is today. Vietnam, those guys it was looked at. like they went bankrupt. It was like a. company going bankrupt. And Not only. that, they came back. They were called. baby killers. They were met at the. airport by protesters. They had all that to to deal with. All. that baggage to deal with. And uh and. that left a scar on an entire. generation. It really you know, a lot of. that started with the Kennedy. assassination in 1963 and then we move. on into the war and this becomes the.

first televised war. So, there were. photographs of the Civil War. Um there's. photographs uh World War I, World War. II. We're getting the newsreels when you. go to the movies on Saturday and see the. matinee and you're getting those. But, that's a very different type of way to. get your news cuz you're seeing it once. a week or you're seeing a still. photograph in a paper. Uh then we get to Vietnam and now you're. seeing it every day on the news. You're. seeing Walter Cronkite there give you. that news and you're watching these guys. in foxholes and you're seeing the. shooting and you're seeing this chaos. And then also the media, I think this is.

the first time where the media realizes. they have not They're not just a a. pillar as a check on government. They. realize at this point that they actually. have power to influence events and. policy. So, how they report from Vietnam. very different from how reporters even. in Korea, but let's say World War very. different from how reporters. reported on that war. And now I think in. Vietnam you have these guys in Saigon. and they realize and they're staying at. these amazing hotels and they're. partying it up at night and some of them. are going to the outskirts of town so it. looks like they're out in the rice.

paddies or whatever and then they're. going back to their hotel for for. drinks. But, they realize during this. time that they can influence policy. And. so, that's what we see with the Tet. Offensive. We see that as a complete as. a complete tactical win for the United. States. But, it becomes a loss for us, a. huge strategic loss for us because of. the way that it's reported. And the the. media is involved in that. So, we they. didn't know it before. >> was the issue? The media distorted what. was going on? >> Yeah, the media media were distorting. what was what was going on and and. talked about this huge victory for the.

for the NVA. And uh for for North. Vietnam. And it wasn't really. But, it. was when they reported it that way. And. then we see more of America turning. against this war and and and policy. shifts and more people shipped into. Vietnam. So, it's a I mean, the whole. thing is so is so sad. And I try to. rehumanize it and personalize it in this. book because you can read about I think. that's what the importance of reading. fiction also because you're you can you. get a compassion there and an empathy. for people cuz you're living something.

through their eyes even though it's. fiction. Uh that you don't get really. through through non-fiction. You can. read about all these numbers. You can. read about 58,000. But, when you read a. story like this. and you're getting to know these. characters and you're going through this. thing with them and that then becomes a. part of your experience. Uh so, even say let's say Buds going. through going through SEAL training. Yeah, I'm I'm thinking back to Normandy. and I'm thinking back to to uh to Iwo. Jima. I'm thinking back to Vietnam and. what these guys had to go through and. then I'm realizing I can do a few more. push-ups in the sand here in Coronado,

California. All those guys died and. sacrificed so much so that I could be. here. But some of that comes through the. works of fiction, too. The thrillers. that I was reading growing up from guys. who had backgrounds in Vietnam or just. from things they were dealing with in. contemporary thrillers of the day. But. that became part of my experience and I. didn't have to and it's almost like. you're living it even though it's all. made up. So that's the important of. important of reading in general and. the beacon of reading. When we go when. we look at 2003 to 2025 and the drop-off. in reading that has occurred that is.

scary. Is it Do you think that's because. of the internet? Oh, yeah. I mean it's. quite. it corresponds almost directly with the. rise of the smartphone. and of course it continues to drop. today. So I think I'm getting into. publishing and Hollywood and probably. one of the worst times in the last 100. years that one could decide to do. something like this with AI and all and. all the rest of it. It's. and less people reading and less people. there's no backside there's no box. office for movies anymore. No, the worst. time to get into it is tomorrow. >> Yeah, good point. Very I'm going to I'm. going to take that back.

The you already have the Terminal List. and the Dark Wolf on TV. Yeah, you're way better off. Trying today, they'd be like we have no. use for scripts. We wrote our own we wrote 100 scripts in. the time it took you to walk up the. stairs. Man, I know. Yeah, we put in. prompts. I want a Vietnam thriller. involving. handsome football player that tries to. go to do the best for his country that. realized like Pat Tillman style gets. disillusioned when he gets there. Yeah, I mean it's it's a it's a thing. I think. I'm CAA my talent agency just sent me a.

thing the other day and said that one of. these open AI deals they I think it was. a $1.5 billion settlement or something. and that that they'd used my books and. I'm sure they've used this podcast. I'm. sure they've used all sorts of things. But but the settlement out of that for. me is possibly $1,000. Congratulations. >> know. Well, thank you. And I thought. well, my attorney's going to be is my. attorney only going to take an hour to. do this because that's about makes it a. you know, an net exactly. So but then do. you not do it because then they just. hold them I don't know. It's it's crazy. Take the thousand.

But I have to pay like 6,000 to get the. thousand. So you really I would think. they're going to spend I'm sure they're. going to spend like 6 hours. I don't think so. I mean if I even ask. the question the thousand's gone. You. know? It's I don't think it works that way. So. I don't I don't even know. But the AI. part is interesting. I was talking to. So I was in Morocco filming. True Believer just a couple weeks ago. So we finished up filming out there with. Pratt and everybody. It was amazing. And. and I get from Morocco you fly through. France on the way home. So I stopped in. Paris for a few days met my wife out.

there met some other friends out there. went to a bunch of dinners and things. like that. But one of them's a guy named. Rick Rosenfield. He started California. Pizza Kitchen back in 1985 and they were. going to put one in one of the Wynn. hotels in Vegas and we're talking about. AI and that's how this this plays in. here. And he said he told me the story. and I'll get this is the general gist. It might be not the exact detail but the. general gist is right. They're going to. put one into one of the Wynn casinos. And so he goes in there with with Steve. Wynn and they're walking through and. Waylon Jennings is with them. So they're. all there's three these three guys Steve. Wynn, Rick Rosenfield and Waylon.

Jennings and they go in and and Steve. Wynn says, "Hey Waylon, we have this. cover band. We have this guy that does. just your cover tunes. He's a huge fan. of yours and I'd appreciate if you said. you said hi to him." And Waylon Jennings. is like, "Yeah, no problem." So the. cover band guy is like Jaylen Wennings. or something let's call him that. I. don't know what his real name is. But. sits down and they're having drinks and. the guy's like, "I I love I love all. your stuff. Thank you so much. it's okay. that that I'm doing these cover bands. but you're I just idolize you." And. Waylon Jennings is sitting there he. goes, "Oh, yeah, no no problem. Only there is one problem though with.

what you're doing." And the guy's like, "What what what?" And he said, "You're. always one album behind.". And I was like, "Oh." And this guy told. me the story in the context of AI and. someone using my books to write another. book that is has a similar tone or write. this in the style of Jack Carr with some. prompts. And I was saying that I was a. little concerned about this and just. don't know what's going going to happen. in the future. And he told me that story. and so I'm like, "Oh, that's fantastic. They're always going to be a book. behind.". Yeah, but AI is not a cover band. AI is. a lot smarter than us. That's the.

problem. The problem is. you know, I don't know if you're paying. attention to what it's been doing with. music. But like so Jamie show him some of the. interviews. some of the interviews that you made. I. showed them up there. Yeah, yeah. Those. are crazy. Muhammad Ali yeah on the podcast. Yeah. >> Jackson on the podcast. And it's not. it's not difficult for it to do stuff. like that. And so the we're not talking. about a cover band. We're talking about. someone that can do something or. something that can accomplish a task.

that human beings can't. Man, well now. I'm bummed out again. I was all positive. a second ago. Play that. This is so crazy. >> crazy got to act like it every day. That. mean working with nobody watching. staying humble but never doubting. yourself. >> You still carry that mindset now? >> Always in me forever. You don't stop. being a champion just cuz the bill ain't. When you sit down like this with a. microphone, you can't hide anything. Your breathing, your hesitation, even. your heartbeat comes through. If you try. to be some That's incredible. grow up. with nothing man you learn quick who you.

can trust. Every smile, every handshake. your way this game is crazy. That one's terrible. That's terrible. That's someone else's. ever notice how life sneak up on you. like a bill you forgot you had. One day. you cool next thing you like who left. this responsibility on my porch? Stop. that. But there are some that are good. Stop that. Stop that. That's not Richard. Pryor's voice. You think the whole world. is waiting for you to show up and then. you find out the world was busy already. The trick is figuring out how to join in. without losing your I would say hearing. it through these headphones now you can. hear that weird Yeah. Like that's.

supposed to be Lee Harvey Oswald doesn't. really look like him. A little bit like. a really young Lee Harvey Oswald. Anyway, we're [ __ ] That's crazy. We're [ __ ] Bottom line is and music. is really [ __ ] Like we were playing. this 50 Cent cover. They did a song the. song Many Men but they did it with like. a soul singer from like the 1950s or. 1960s. It's incredible. It's so good. It's like one of my favorite songs. Really? It's not even a real person. That's insane. It's not even a real. person and it's so good. We were on the.

green room the other night. We're like. if this guy was the real dude he would. be the biggest star in the world right. now cuz everybody would want to hear him. sing. I mean Milli Vanilli just did it a. little too early. Well, Milli Vanilli. just lip-synced. You know, this is a. totally different experience. This is. like they're going to create stuff with. your voice better than anything you can. do. It's so brutal. But for the kids at. least we're aware of it so we can. choose. Maybe we can choose. It's going. to be hard to like some of these things. it's going to be hard to to figure out. at some point. But I almost think there. needs to be remember the parental.

advisories in the '80s they put on CDs. and stuff like that back then. Like at. least you know like if I want to go and. I want to buy this piece of art right. here and I walk into that store and I. love this thing and I put it in my house. and it's there for 10 years and I show. everybody that comes in. But what if. that thing is I don't know that no one. actually made that. That was just AI. made that. And I find out 10 years later. what does that different is that a. different experience now for me? Do I. feel cheated? I don't know. You should. feel cheated. But if you buy it there has to be a. little thing on it I don't know that. tells you then you're aware. Well, part. of what art is is someone made it. You.

know, that's what makes it it kind of. cool. You know, if it was made by a. computer it doesn't seem I don't it. doesn't have a piece of a person in it. You know? Are people going to care like. our kids? Are they going to care that I. don't know because I don't care about. that song. So I don't know what to say. It's I don't want to be a hypocrite but. it's it's inevitable. It's happening. You know, you're going to have to deal. with it and adapt and I think what it. means to be a person is going to change. It's so brutal. Yeah, I I don't think. it's possible to avoid change and this.

is the direction that change is going. And so at your essence like what are you. and who are you? You have to. search for that in different ways and. you're probably not going to be able to. search for it the same way through music. and books if you find out that these. music and books weren't actually written. by like-minded people. Or. is it that the the lessons and the the. energy say the energy of the music and. the lessons of the books. it is from people.

Because what AI's done is they've. absorbed all of the art that everyone. has ever created ever in terms of. literature and music and even comedy and. whatever. And it's combined it together in a style. that's completely variable. You can have. it like Amy Winehouse. You can make it. sound like Biggie Smalls. You can make. it sound like anything. But it is all. it's imitating everything that humans. have created and would still will still. affect humans and maybe inspire us.

more and maybe put a premium on. something that's created by an actual. human and not by AI. Maybe it'll become. more valuable. Hope so. Yeah. Hope so. Put the books on. like hey, this is made by an actual. human. No AI was used. I haven't used it. yet. I haven't used chat GPT or anything. like that. I can barely update my word. That's what I want to do. I keep my word. updated. That's the main thing. But I. know a lot of people that are that are. using it and love it and actually have a. relationship with this thing. Yeah, I.

use Perplexity for questions on the show. now. It's a sponsor. And so like every. time we have questions well, look it's a. valuable resource. I feel like. especially for someone who does. something like this it'd be crazy to not. use something like that. I don't think. it's everyone's thinks that change is. bad. Everyone's scared of change. They. were scared of the printing press. I. mean people have been scared of the. wheel. They were scared of the. locomotive. People are scared of. everything. I'm not scared of it. I'm. I'm I'm scared that it could potentially. [ __ ] up society but.

I feel like that's just what's going to. happen. You know, it's just. we go through cycles. Go to Rome. Go look around. What happened? Where'd. everything go? You know, there's there's. still people living here but that. society that built that that fell apart. Same thing with Athens. Same thing with. many many many places in the world. Societies crumble. There's a cycle. We. are not immune to that cycle because. we're aware of it. They're aware of it, too. They were all aware of crumbling. civilizations and once great. civilizations that had fallen.

This episode is brought to you by. Visible. You know that one friend who's. always the first to know about. everything? They've got a dozen tabs. open constantly on their phone and in. their head. To be that friend, you need. wireless that can keep up. Visible is. the ultimate wireless hack that lets you. live in the know so you can follow a. rabbit hole as long as you want. Get one. line wireless with unlimited data, talk, and text for $25. a month, taxes and fees included. Plus,

Visible runs on Verizon's 5G network, so. you get great coverage and a reliable. connection without the premium cost. Ready for wireless that lets you live in. the know? Make the switch at. visible.com. Terms apply. See visible.com for plan. features and network management details. I think if you learned a if you learned. to think for yourself, you think. logically. If you read, kids today, if. they put that down that phone and just.

read, that is a superpower. They will. get out there and crush. Read, work out, do some MMA BJJ stuff, do a little. boxing, but read, you are going to ex-. just leave everyone else in the dust. when it comes to whatever you want to do. next in life, out of high school, out of. college, whatever it is. Uh if you have. that foundation, then you're one you're. going to be a more empathetic and. passionate person, but you're going to. have this knowledge base that other. people are. are relying on chat GPT or whatever it. is, uh their phone, whatever, to do that.

thinking for them. Yeah, it's amazing. how many people just don't consume any. non-fiction or fiction. They don't. consume anything but like Tik Tok and. Netflix. Yes, it is absolutely. ridiculous. >> of nuts. Like I said about the the time. that entered to enter publishing. Um if. you were I think that a great time is. the '90s for that because you had let's. say Michael Crichton and then you had. John Grisham. Like every other year. there was some Michael Crichton movie. and then a John Grisham movie and they. had the best directors, actors of the. day, uh producers of the day, and then.

people bought books. They were still. reading back then because there yet. wasn't yet the internet, there wasn't. yet all these other things to distract. you. So, those guys got to crush. That. was like I think that was maybe the. golden age of being an author uh and. adapting your stuff to to film or. television. Mostly film back then. But. those guys got to crush. Yeah. uh today. not as not as much. But it's fun though. It's still fun to. create, still fun to do all this, still. fun to do Morocco, doing this stuff and. >> There's guys like you that are still. doing it. You know, it's still it's. still doable. Yep, still doable, that's. for sure. But uh But it's hard to get. You did the right way though.

You know, you did it on Amazon. They. gave you a lot of creative freedom. You. got great people to work with. That's the right way. You mean, I'm a. big fan of the Gray Man series. I think. he does he's a great writer, but his. stuff is so much more violent and gritty. than what was portrayed in the film. Yeah. >> The film glossed it up and you know, it. made it a little pretty. Right. That's. what happens for the most part. It's uh. Carl Hiaasen. >> Did you see a Bad Monkey with uh with. Vince Vaughn? No.

>> good. It's on Apple. And uh What is it? >> He's a a cop that's kind of down on his. luck and he's he's on suspension or. whatever and uh he lives in the Keys, so. it has that whole Keys vibe and they. film it down there. And so you recognize. if you've been there, you recognize all. these places, but uh Carl Hiaasen is the. author and he he had he's he has this uh. he's very unique style. But what he says. about Hollywood is he drives to the. border of California, he throws his book. over the border, they throw a bunch of. money back at him and he drives back to. back to Florida. And that's how And. whatever happens, happens, you know. It's uh.

so it's it's one way to look at it, but. most authors aren't involved in there in. their in uh in whatever happens. They. like to get rid of that author right. away so you're not on set saying, "You. ruined my vision.". >> Yeah, I get that. I could I get that, but it seems like what you're doing is. better because you're involved in it and. then it reaches your vision or as close. as you're going to get. >> You help add value. Yeah, you want to. make it the best show you possibly can. Yeah, when I saw The Terminal List, I. was like, "This is about as close as you. can get and do a TV show and you know, and not have it rated, you know, NC-17. like.

super hyper graphic. >> Yeah, yeah. But. you know, it's. it's way harder to do that in a movie. It to take a book. >> and a half, two hours. >> books take hours to read. >> Yeah, and we have 7 hours for Dark Wolf, 8 hours for. for The Terminal List, we'll have 8. hours for True Believer. That's That's. the way to do it. >> Yeah, and that one that is the hunting. stuff in it. So, once again, now I think. we like for some reason if we'd started. with that or if I'd started with that as. a book, that it would have been much. more difficult because Amazon would have. been much more hesitant. But since we. had a success with The Terminal List,

now they're taking this risk with us. Just like my publisher did, it would. have been very easy as a publisher to. say, "Hey, just do what you did in that. first book. That was successful, so just. take that same kind of stuff and just. drop it maybe internationally or. something like that.". >> Right. Instead, I had this whole journey. across In the book, it's the Atlantic, in the show, it's going to be the. Pacific. But going across this this this. journey of violent redemption, he still. thinks he's going to die, gets to. Mozambique, still thinks he's going to. die, doesn't die yet, and so cuz he has. this tumor, and then uses the skills. from Iraq and Afghanistan to help with. the poaching problem over there. And. then the book really the actual story.

kicks off from there, but I thought it. was going to be. would be disingenuous to the reader to. have this character that went through. all the things that he went through in. The Terminal List. All this traumatic. stuff, losing his family, losing his. whole troop in Afghanistan, and then all. of a sudden he's okay and just out to. save the world in the next book. And uh. so I had to take him on this journey. And I kind of thought that my my editor. and publisher would say, "Hey, cut out. the first third of this book and we got. something here." Instead, they didn't. say any of that and uh they took this. risk with me and it really. differentiated that book and me as an. author. And now Amazon's doing the same. thing. So, we have Chris Pratt going.

across the ocean. He's got this crazy. long hair, he lost a ton of weight for. this thing. He's like battling the. storms and his demons and then gets to. Mozambique and same thing. Goes through. this second episode where he's out there. doing this poacher thing, using his. skills out there, and we filmed in. Africa, so we got these amazing just. landscapes, beautiful. It's probably one. of the most beautiful. um. visions of Africa that I've ever seen on. film. It's just incredible. And Chris. Pratt Chris is totally into it, of. course, and the guy who got to play Rich. Hastings, I don't know if we can say his. name yet, but uh he's he's awesome. He. is so good. And uh so he's kind of like.

the older guy kind of mentoring James. Reece along, Chris Pratt, and uh and. he's a guy's guy. Like he uh I'll say. his name, Arnold Vosloo. And that's who. he's the bad guy from Blood Diamond and. uh the Mummy. And such an awesome guy. And he's a guy's he's like one of us. And so you didn't need to tell him like. what to do with the rifle. Like he knew. He knew what to do with that double. rifle. He he's not messing around. Yeah. So, uh so it was so fun to do that. But. that is a risk that Amazon's taking is. to do those first two episodes, to. invest all this money in this thing.

where yeah, it has something to do with. the development of the character, but. not really to do with the rest of the. story and him then saving the world. Uh. but they went along with it and uh and. that's that's because they saw the. numbers from the first from the first. season. Yeah. And they'll never share. those numbers with us, but uh we know. what they are because there have been. like almost no notes in this one. Like. the first one, there was notes. constantly. Like they didn't want Chris. to get somebody. They were very they. they didn't want that to happen and then. we did it anyway and they uh they ended. up being on every billboard in LA for. the opening month. All that, they didn't want the the. Secretary of Defense to die, they didn't. want So, uh there was all sorts of.

things that that they they were very. nervous about, but they ended up going. with us. They ended up trusting us. But. now we didn't have to fight for it in. the second season on Dark Wolf because. we have that trust. Yeah. So, that's. pretty cool. That is nice. That's that's. the beautiful thing about a successful. series. >> Yeah. They leave you alone. Gives you. more gives you more freedom. Don't [ __ ]. it up. Yeah, yeah, exactly. >> Instead of like we got to make it better. cuz it's not a hit, it's don't [ __ ] it. up. Exactly. Exactly. And you had Taylor. and Taylor was here at the table with. you. So, what a great guy. >> a good dude. >> Exactly. He's so cool. >> So so different than like that character.

that he plays in American Crime Evil is. so scary. So good. So realistic. Like you really. believe he's a [ __ ] savage. Like you. really believe everything about it, the. way he [ __ ] people up, like what he. even what he looks like. Like you talked. about how much weight he lost for that. When he takes his clothes off and you. see the scars all over his body, like, "Whoa.". >> Yeah, they went through it on that one. And Pete Berg was on, too. Yeah, Pete. Berg was on was on here. >> man. >> He's awesome. >> It's like when you see that, you like. you believe that guy. I'm like, "That.

guy looks like someone who would be. living like that back then." Oh, yeah. And he got beat up on that. He went. right from that into our show where he. gets beat up again. And we had to do. this show this thing in episode four. where I had my cameo where I get. stitched up the side and get killed. I. got part of the be part of the stunt. man. I got killed again. Yeah, again. I. got I get killed in True Believer, too, and it's a good one. It's it's awesome. >> to see that it's you this time? You got. to give yourself a fake nose. >> Yeah, yeah, so it's the same. It's kind. of like I'm going to be a little we're. kind of making a little thing about the. show like I always die somehow.

Something like I don't think he dies in. them though. I think they just kind of. do a He's been in a bunch of his movies. He doesn't die in his movies. It's not. who killed Kenny. Exactly. So, this will. be this will be a little different. Our. twist on it. Our take on it. That's. awesome. >> Yeah, so that's fun to do that stuff. But Taylor had to run through this. cobblestone these cobblestone streets. through this tunnel. And that's the one. where I get stitched up and and and fall. over so I get a little stunt man pay out. of that. That might. not quite not quite a thousand dollars, I don't think, for taking that big fall. Bro, nobody works harder than stunt men. Seriously, those guys and girls take a. freaking beating. >> They take a [ __ ] beating. They really.

do. It's horrible. Episode five, maybe. maybe six, there's a there's a. with. this guy and the big big dude. and and one of the girls in the show get. in this this fight in this apartment. I. don't know if you saw that that episode, but the stunt person who got thrown in. this refrigerator, oh my It was it was. like a tiny little pad in the. refrigerator and she just gets thrown. into this thing. And we try to keep all. the fights realistic, so we made a very. deliberate decision at the beginning of. The Terminal List not to do the John. Wick style because you just don't want.

to do John Wick style but not as good. You know, you want to have everything. authentic and realistic and then have. this choreographed fight sequence that. everyone that looks visually stunning. but is not really realistic for anybody. who's ever been in a fight or watched. UFC or anything like that. Um so we so. we wanted to make sure that these things. are are primal, visceral, and just. physical and brutal. And. but it's this smaller girl against this. huge guy. So, we didn't want to have. that that that girl power thing and all. of a sudden people roll their eyes and. say, you know, one punch from this guy.

and she's done. So, she shoots him like three times. before the fight as he's rushing in on. her. So, okay, we're going to we're. going to we're going to even this out. and still some people got upset about it. online. They're like, how could she you. know, how could she you know. best this guy in a fight? He's huge. And. well, cuz she shot him three times and. then in the fourth time in the middle of. the fight. And she takes a beating. And. but the stunt the stunt lady who did. this was amazing. And she she took a. beating, too, especially when she got. thrown into that fridge. It was. incredible. >> woman. >> Yeah, yeah. That's even harder. >> Yeah. Yeah, that was and it's hard to. watch cuz you're talking to them and.

then they go on set and do their thing. and you're like, oh, but you feel like. you know them now, so you feel like you. just know this person that's now getting. beat up and you're watching from that. video village and you're like, oh, just. cringing seeing this stuff. But it's. good. Came out came out fantastic. >> That's why guys like Tom Cruise are so. nuts. >> So crazy. He does his own stunts. So. crazy. He's worth a billion dollars and. he jumps off roofs. He jumps from. rooftop to rooftop Yeah. and breaks his. [ __ ] ankle. Did you ever see that? >> Oh, yeah. Sure. Shatters his ankle and. then keeps running. Yeah. Keeps running. From Fallout, I think.

>> the ankle shatter. You see the ankle hit. the side. >> Yeah. And you can see him humble. >> give in. You see the ankle give in. You're going, that ankle's [ __ ] And. then he lands on it and he just [ __ ]. hobbles off running. >> Yep. And save the scene. Yep. Actually. watched it on the plane back cuz they. were we did a. my got my flight like last second. So, I. was in economy between two people. And. so, when I do that I can't work. And so, on like a 10-hour flight, I decided to. watch the movie. So, I watched Fallout. again just because of that cuz I wanted. to see if I could tell what was filmed.

after and what was filmed before that. sequence. And it's hard to tell. It's. really hard to tell how much they filmed. after he shatters his ankle and limps. off cuz you see him kind of limp off. Then he's running again. You're like, what? >> I know. So, yeah, that's amazing that he. does all this stuff. >> got a cortisone shot, taped it up. Taped. it up. Just dealt with the pain. >> Let's go. I don't get it. Yeah. That's. amazing. >> He did He did that one thing where he he. he lit a parachute on fire And then had. to pull a second parachute. >> And it turns out that they did that. scene like four or five times. Or the. jumping off the cliff with the.

motorcycle. That was a. all day they did that. Maybe multiple. days, I don't know, but. >> Oh my god. >> That's incredible. >> That's so insane. What kind of insurance. do they have on those movies? >> think that I think he does it probably. himself. He probably insures it himself. I don't think anybody would actually. insure that. I might be wrong. It's just. a guess. A nut. Yeah. What if maybe. Scientology works? You know what I'm. saying? I mean, what a [ __ ] nut. No one's. like that guy. I mean, there's no one. that is that successful that takes that. takes those kind of risks. >> Yeah. And all the other actors say the. same thing. They're like, no, that's.

what the stunt people do. He's one one. of one, you know? He gets in motorcycle. races like he's in he does those scenes. He does car chase scenes. It's pretty. cool. I mean, it does add a level of. authenticity and you go to it for that. So, you can see Tom Cruise doing his own. stunts. You know, that's part of the. thing. >> Yeah. Fly the helicopter in that one two. two three of them ago. But that was. killer, too. [ __ ] crazy. >> Yeah. Yeah, jumping out with was it. Henry Cavill and him jump out the back. of the plane in Fallout and they're but. yeah, they he's jumping out of those. planes and it's. good for him. Yeah, he's out of his.

[ __ ] mind. Separated his finger joints or something. in this one. >> he did. >> Oh, man. It's fantastic. Let's say what. >> you know how hard it is to hang? I I. just don't hang. >> I do it every day. I do a minute and 30. seconds every day. I've decided to try. this to see like what it does like for. my back like cuz it decompresses your. back and I've heard that if you just do. it every day it's like a life changer. So, I'm like, okay. So, I'm like 10 days. in now. 10 days of every day minute 30 I.

hang. At that minute and 20 I got to. check the phone. [ __ ]. >> Oh, yeah. I was doing the same. So, after I was here last time, we took a. picture together and I saw it and I'm. like, oh, oh my gosh, I look horrible. I. got I'm so out of shape. And it wasn't. the height of my out of shapeness cuz we. I think we did that in June. By late. August or no, late July. That was six. years of not doing anything. We talked. about saunas, you know, we talked about. all that. And I'm like, I've got to do something. Just writing. >> So, I've just been writing. It's been so. many projects and I put myself at the. bottom of my priority list and focus on. family and writing and then the.

screenwriting and all the other projects. that are out there. And it's it's it's. amazing. I feel very fortunate for that. But I did get way out of shape and the. worst shape of my life. And it showed in. that photo that we took. I'm like, oh, look at Joey. He looks in such great. shape. I'm like, So, August 1st or something. I'm like, all. right, I'm in. And I started doing the. hang, of course, and then I have I have. this outside workout area that's like. kind of like Rocky 4 style. And so, it's. right there in the mountains. And so, I'm just start I'm all in getting after. it. I'm doing the sauna. We rented a. place in town that that had a had a. sauna to get our kids closer to school.

for a year just cuz we're kind of. remote. We're kind of up there in. remote. And so, we wanted him to have. our son to have the experience of riding. his bike to school and all that stuff. So, we rented a house, but it had an. amazing sauna in it. Mhm. >> that exactly what 17 minutes and 30. seconds, whatever you're supposed to do. Whatever whatever I heard someone on. this podcast tell me I was supposed to. do. Whatever you told me to do, I was. doing that. And I was going outside. getting like 10 minutes of sun here, 10. minutes of sun there, doing the. workouts, doing the cardio stuff, doing. doing all of it. And I got in great. probably one of the best shapes of my. life. Really? >> And I was feeling so good. I felt like I. could just throw people through walls. That was how I was feeling so great. And.

but I was doing everything. I was doing. the the sun. I was eating right. I was. not eating the bread. So, I did I did. everything. And then I got to January. 1st and I'm out there in the snow. I dug. a path out to my thing in the gym and. I'm working out in my outside gym doing. the hangs, all that in the snow. And. then I was like, oh, I think I had a. deadline December 1st a month ago for. this book. I'm like, I. got to start writing. So, I all stop. All stop. And I haven't done anything. since. It was only only writing, only. screenwriting, everything. So, I haven't. found that balance. I need to find that. that balance. I'm not quite there yet.

>> hours do you write a day? Well, as I get. closer to the as I pass these deadlines, I should say, it becomes all consuming. and it's especially for something like. this when I'm in 1968. I mean, I really. felt like I had to transport myself back. to that time to write this thing. And. so, that was all as soon as I woke up. bam, I'm in and it is all day long. And. so, >> to sleep. And until I go to sleep. Till. super late and then I'm up cuz the kids. still get up at the same time. And so, I'm up. So, I'm maybe an hour of sleep, two hours of sleep, whatever and then. I'm up out of a cannon and it's going. So, it's not not healthy. Not healthy. So, I'm going to get on a better a.

better schedule here. Our son's going to. a a boarding school now. Our daughter's. in college. We have our middle child. with his severe special needs, so he's. still at home with us. He'll be with us. forever. And he's a sweet sweet little. guy. But but it that I think will give. me a little more time to maybe find some. balance with the health and the writing. Right. >> do that at some point. But typically a. lot of writers aren't very especially. the older ones from back in the day. They're not not the healthiest of. individuals. >> The opposite. >> Yeah. I mean, we've talked about it a. bunch of times in this podcast, but my. favorite Stephen King books were all. when he was doing coke. >> even remember writing a couple of them,

right? >> No. If I was his friend, I'd get him to do. coke again. >> Yeah. I I tell my publisher that. I'm like, I. feel like I need to to do some of that. just to get this to get this done. I. need to take a turn here. >> A lot of guys use this Adderall. Yeah. >> of writers use Adderall. A lot of. journalists use Adderall as well. Yeah. >> also that makes them like a little more. impulsive. Their work gets a little. aggressive. Like you kind of see. especially journalists when they get. real shitty. Like, oh, he's probably on. Adderall. >> Oh, interesting. >> I think it contributes to the culture of.

journalism in the modern era with this. sort of like really shitty Yeah. >> attack journalism that's become very. prevalent. I I don't think it's small. factor. I think Adderall consumption has. it plays a a factor in that. It I'm sure. it does. I mean, it changes something. >> It changes something. >> Yeah, social media. >> Nicotine does it. Nicotine is has been. very helpful for authors Nicotine's. great. Yeah. Yeah. From what I. understand. >> cigars or do you do like pouches? What. do you. >> Don't do anything. Don't do anything. Just coffee. Nope. Coffee and and.

coffee, water, red wine, whiskey. Red. wine is your key inspiration. >> Yeah, but not too much, you know, just a. just a just a little bit every now and. again. Yeah. Yeah, nothing too crazy. Just to say [ __ ] it. >> Yeah, just I feel like it I should be. doing something like that, but not not. too much. I'm not having I built a. library and on one side of it was a bar. and I never got to touch anything cuz at. book signings people bring me a lot of a. lot of whiskey. And so, I have it in my. bags or I mail it from the road or. whatever. And so, I have this whole wall. of whiskey and other stuff, too. But I. never get to partake in it cuz I'm. always writing. I'm always like, I could.

pour something, but no, I can't. This is. my time. It's quiet. I'm not being. interrupted. Go go go. And it's just it's just all on. So, I. haven't used any performance enhancing. supplements. I need to do some like. Alpha Brain or something probably. >> That helps. Something like that. >> Alpha Brain's great. There's a Alpha. Brain black label that's a new one. that's a stronger version of Alpha. Brain. I think we have some. I'll give. you some when we leave. We also have. Alpha Brain gummies. Do we have any on. the table? >> No. Nice. I probably should. I I eat those things like candy. But. there's a bunch of really good. nootropics that you should look into.

Another one is Neuro Gum. We have some. of that stuff. I like that cuz it's just. it tastes good. It's gum and it gives. you a little nootropic boost. But I. understand why authors do that. >> Creatine is another great one. And. creatine is really great for people with. sleep deprivation. >> Oh, really? Yes. >> I was using that. So, I did some. supplements when I started working out. again. I stopped it when I stopped. working out, but I think I was doing the. is it Thor Thorne? Is that the one that. you see on the UFC mat? So, I was doing. that. Yeah, so I was using that their. creatine and some just just some. vitamins. Just like some basic stuff. >> though. Like people are taking 5 g a.

day, you really want like 20 g a day. And particularly when people are dealing. with sleep deprivation. It also for some. reason has like pretty great benefits. more so even for women. and sleep deprivation. There's been a. bunch of different studies going, but in. terms of cognitive performance after. sleep deprivation and reaction time. after sleep deprivation. Both of those. things fall off and there's a noticeable. rise and improvement with creatine.

Yeah, I don't think I was taking I was. taking one scoop. Whatever it says on. the bottle. I'll take the one scoop. Whatever that whatever that. >> I probably bet it's 5 g. I do four of. those scoops. Yeah. >> Well, when I get back after this and see. myself in our photo today, I will. get back to. I use four scoops. Well, it'll. definitely make your muscles a little. stronger and larger, but the reason I'm. doing it is not just for that. It's for. the brain. It's really good for the. brain. I was getting sleep during that. time, too, which is why I didn't have a. book on time. One of the one of the reasons. One of I. was going back to 1968. Took a lot. longer than I thought for this research,

and then two, I was getting in shape at. the same time. Were you listening to. like 1968 music back then? And like what. did How are you doing it? Music. I did a. playlist for it, put it on Spotify. So, I was doing that. I was watching the. Vietnam documentaries. I was reading. everything I could possibly find on. Vietnam from the day. There's old Army Special Forces manuals. that they had before the guys would go. over there that talked about the. Montagnard tribes they were going to be. working with. For those that are. watching or listening, it's like. Apocalypse Now, like the Montagnard. tribes and all that stuff. So, I was. doing that.

And then I then I was reading the more. modern stuff, too. I was reading things. from the '70s, '80s. I got. National Geographic magazines from the. '60s. I think there's one from the late. '50s, even. So, I was doing everything I. possibly could to transport myself back. Listening to some history history. podcasts about. JFK, about. about Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King, things that were happening here, about. the election, Nixon's elections, everything that was happening in 1968. I. was just trying to immerse myself in. that world so that when I sat down to. this, I didn't have to do a huge shift. and it would be it was already had this.

I was building on this foundation, whatever foundation I already had as. then I sat down in front of the computer. to write rather than watching something. here contemporary, getting all upset. about something that X is feeding me to. keep me enraged, and then. then trying to jump back to 1968. Instead, I just I transported myself. back there for it felt like months at a. time. That's probably healthier anyway. I think it's much healthier. Much. I think so. I think it was a much. healthier way to live in general. So, just live in the past, folks. That's. what I try to do. Today's too [ __ ].

confusing. Just go live in the past. I. mean, I'd love to go back. I know I. can't though, but I still try to go back. through my vehicles, through movies, through things like that. I did I I tried to get two modern. vehicles. Had to turn them back in. I know you. were telling me you got a Grenadier. I. did a Grenadier and then and I was so. excited to get it. I think I was the. first person in Utah to get one. At. least they told me I was anyway. And I. got this thing. I was so excited. And. this is not a hit on Ineos Grenadiers. This is a hit on me not being able to. adapt to a to the current times. It's a.

great vehicle. I I. They let me borrow one for a few months. It's a great If you're looking for an. off-road vehicle that's like fully. outfitted from the factory, you could do. no better. It was awesome. I mean, it I. did of course I put every possible thing. you could put on there. So, I'm like, I. don't have time. I'm like, what put. everything on that for me. Just do the. whole thing. And so, they did. And it. showed up. I was so excited for it. And. then it started beeping at me, you know? And it was I'm like, That's that's my. complaint. It beeps when you go 1 mile. an hour just a few miles an hour over.

the speed limit. I don't like that. I don't like where. the speedometer is in the dash It's in. the screen. So, there's no dashboard in. front of you. There's no like. speedometer, tach. It's not in front of. you. You just see numbers to the right. So, you have to look over the right to. see how fast you're going, which is why. they justify the beep. So, it makes you. look over to let you know like, "Oh, look, you're going See the beep? Oh, let. me let me look." I don't want to look to. the right at a screen ever if I don't. have to. I want to look at it only if. I'm following directions, and that's it.

I want my [ __ ] speedometer right in. front of me. I know. It's fast though. That you hammer that thing, it was fast. I mean, you have some faster cars than I. do. It's capable. And it's really. capable off-road. Like if you drive that. thing and it's [ __ ] built like a. tank. It is like a tank. If you look at. like an like the the idea was that they. copied a Land Rover Defender, which they. definitely did. But, if you look at a. Land Rover Defender, shut the doors on. those things. They feel like [ __ ] It. feels like it's made of a Pepsi can. It's amazing It's They're They're. aluminum fact Those are like.

agricultural vehicles. Those are not. vehicles for like rugged travel. That's. a G Wagon. A G Wagon's like a That was. designed for military applications. It's. a [ __ ] stamp steel. I don't know if. it's stamp steel, but whatever. They're. steel heavy [ __ ] doors. When you shut. those doors, like. And that's how the Grenadier is. Grenadier is like heavy. It's like. thick. It's like a very durable vehicle. I feel like a lot of Aussies love them. because you can kind of just get right. from the factory and you know, a lot of.

those guys like to go off-road. And you. could get your factory setting in the. back where it's got all the electrical. and everything. So, you could set up a. stove. You could set up a little. refrigerator back there. It's all. plugged in, ready to go. I love I mean, I love all that stuff. And it's It's like What do they say? It's like a Defender 110 and G Wagon had. a baby for the Grenadier. That's kind of. Yeah, that's kind of true. It's like the. sides where you can put all the. jerrycans and everything. It's all set. up to mount the stuff on it, right? I. got it all set up. And I was so excited.

And then I called them. I was like, "Hey, can I get rid of this click?" And. they said, "Yeah." And they walked me. through the thing. And I. Whatever. I This is what I don't want to. have an iPad. I There's I just want a. car. I don't want to drive a computer. And so, I'm in there. I turn it off. And. then I'm like, "Oh, thank you so much.". I'm driving. I'm like, "Oh, it's not. doing the clicking anymore." I stop. I. get out. I go in and do something. I get. back in the car. Immediately, it's back. on again. Click, click, click, click, click, click. I'm like, "Son of a I'm. like, we're getting rid of this." I'm. like, told my wife. I'm like, "Get Let's. get rid of this thing." But, it is. awesome. You're an old Land Cruiser guy. The problem is those cars have a charm.

There's a charm to those old Land. Cruisers, especially the one that you. have, the 60 series. Like you drive one. of those things, man, it's like that. feels like you're involved in every part. of the driving. I love that. It's my time machine. Yeah, yeah. [Music]. I love it. And you have a V8 in it, too, which is like so, you got modern power, LS V8. LS3's in there. So, that's nice. But, that's has thick doors, too. Much. thicker than the '80s. Yeah, and I do. love my '80s. Not much thicker, but much.

thicker, but thicker. I like the '80s. series. I have two '80s series now, both. stock '96. And I love those cuz they're. just modern enough, but they're they. need someone to do a little work on. them. They make some strange noises, but. they they work. But, they my my son like. to pick him up at school in it. And he's. like, "Oh, Dad." Cuz it's still making. this crazy. It's almost like it's the it's going. over the speed limit thing, but it's. constant. So, it's just become [ __ ]. hundreds of thousands of miles. Both of them. But, so I love that. And I. have a '78 FJ40 that I love. So, that's pretty I love that one. And.

it's it's all completely restored. So, it's all all original for the most part. Yeah. Yeah, so it doesn't have Fun. getting on the highway with that thing, isn't it? Yeah, you go about 40 miles an. hour tops. Tops. I mean, you're in that. slow lane. Yes, so slow. But, it's cool for zipping around town. I love that. And I gave Icon to make you. one of those. I know. It's on the list. It's on the list. Of course, they make. you one of them beasts that they make. cuz they they make them with the giant. V8s in them. Yeah, they do some serious. work. Yeah. So, I think I'm a Land. Cruiser guy. And I tested out the Ineos. Didn't work out for me, but that's not. to say that they won't work out for.

someone else. They're awesome vehicles. And if you're a modern type person, I'd. get one for sure. Yeah, if you're into. that style of like Defender-looking car, but you don't want all the [ __ ] that. comes with owning a Defender, either get. a refurbished one, like East Coast. Defenders does a great job. They'll put. a big engine in it and do it all right. But, yeah, there's a bunch of them now. that do that. The Grenadier is a great. solution. I think they're going to come. out with a new one that has. more horsepower and they'll probably. improve some things. But, I would like. them just give me a [ __ ] dashboard. Is that so hard? I mean, they're doing. everything else old school. You have all.

these buttons and everything. It's all. [ __ ] all old school-looking like a. jet fighter pilot with all the locking. differential and everything. Give me a. [ __ ] speedometer. Just a regular. speedometer and a tach. Put it right in. front of me. Thank you. And also make. the lights so that the the auxiliary. lights will turn on when it's not in the. off-road mode. If you don't if you tried. that, but they're the auxiliary lights. They except for the light bar on the. top, but the other ones in the front, like you have to be in off-road mode for. some legal reason. So, you have to I. mean, sure someone can bypass it. somehow, but when I come up to our. house, there's no there's no lights and. it's a long drive up there into the.

mountains. And I just want to hit the. switch and have just daylight in front. of me. And that was not possible with. that. I got my Land Cruiser set up where. if I was in a dark field, you would. think a UFO landed. And yours is the 100. series, right? Is that the No, I have an. '80. You're the '80. That's okay. Yeah, Icon built me that one. It was TLC at. the time. But, they they put bars all. around it. And bars in the back. So, like you could. park and like light up the perimeter. That's what I want. I want daylight. I. want daylight. And then you put a tent. on the roof and you're out there in. nature. I love it. I love it. I did drive an I.

drove a G Wagon yesterday. So, we. landed, went right to Stikado. And so, they had a. a portion of G Wagon right there. And I. was like, "Oh, man." I was I'm I'm I. think my wife told me I need to get. something more modern that's going to be. reliable. We're not going to just break. down all the time. And and so, I'm like, they said, "Well, drive it. Drive this. thing." And so, I got in it. It was like. a 2016. So, it was before some changes, I guess, were made. And I think it was. nice. Yeah, so 2016 would have two live. axles. I think they got independent. front suspension later. I think that was. like the 2022 or something like that.

They started doing that. But, I still. can't do it. It's too. too LA. Too Kardashian. I like that. But, the reality of it is it's it's a. military vehicle. The thing about G. Wagons though is people do take them and. then they build them out for off-road. They don't do it with like the AMG turbo. [ __ ] thing. But, the regular one is a. V8 anyway. It's got plenty of power. I. like the old ones. But, you can you can. get one of those old ones. And people. have done amazing builds where they put. like large tires on them. They raise it.

up a little bit. And they put like. strong steel bumpers and. like rock sliders on the side. And you. know, it's a beast of a truck. Probably. need something new at some point. Something newer at some point. Because. the platform is amazing. I mean, the. platform is really designed. for military application. Yeah, the new. the new Land Cruiser, I'm not quite. quite there yet. I like the old stuff. You know, like the newer ones. I mean, they're they're probably great. But, the new new one is like really more. modest. Yeah, it is. Yeah. They dropped. the price on them. It's not like what.

they were getting to, which is basically. like trying to compete with Range Rover. But, they're also [ __ ] themselves. because they have Lexus. Yeah, yeah. And. Lexus is like the best version of that. >> Right. Is it the 550 GX? What was the. new one that they had that's. >> the new ones are 600, I think it's. called. >> Well, they they have the smaller one, which is more like Land Cruiser size, like 80 series size, and they have the. larger one. >> Okay. I had three of the larger ones, those 570s. I had three of those. >> Yeah, they're good. Cuz they never. break. They were like my favorite family.

car to drive around in. It's awesome. four-wheel drive. They're great in snow. and anything else. And they [ __ ]. always work. >> Yeah. They always work. >> Yeah. Yeah, hard to beat that. Toyota is. so good. >> I know. >> They're so reliable. I know. The guys go. over to Africa to start filming this. thing and we got there in February or. March. Anyway, we went over there and. the the advanced crew went over first to. get everything set up and then Chris and. I came over a little bit later and when. everything was all set up and the guys. were texting back after they were doing. all the. uh the the advanced work for the. different places we're going to go shoot. and they're like, "Now we understand.

your obsession with the Land Cruiser.". Yeah. Cuz they're all driving Land. Cruisers in Africa. Oh, yeah. Once you. get over to any rough place and you. realize like, "Oh, you want a car that. 100% is going to work for you.". >> Yeah, yeah. There's a reason why they. became so popular. It's not it's not a. mystery. Yeah, yeah. And same thing it's. like the say Is that a Seiko? Yeah. Nice. It's like they say that's the. Toyota of watches. That's the Willard. That's the one that Captain Willard wore. in Apocalypse Now. Absolutely, which I. think came out. >> I do too. >> I have an original about 1971,

I think it is. 70 or 71? Okay. >> Yeah, I collected all the the SOG Seikos. cuz this is a MacV SOG so I collected. all those. There's I think there's four. of them that's that they've they've seen. pictures of MacV SOG guys wearing going. into Laos, Cambodia, North Vietnam, which is what the book is is focused on. So not only did I try to transport. myself back by listening to all these. things, but I had the watch right there. Like this is 1968 Rolex like I had Yeah, so. so I got that thing the Submariner so I. surrounded myself with things that are. like totems from the book. So this is. what Tom Reese and I had a a cool way.

that he wins this. How'd you get a '68? Where'd you find that? Did you get it. online? Uh buddy of mine who's a Rolex. dealer out in uh in PA found it for me. >> Oh, wow. That's [ __ ] cool. >> Crazy, it looks exactly the same. Yeah, pretty much. I mean there's little. little the the crystal's different and. stuff like that, but the uh the lume's. different, that sort of thing, but. >> to be a a utility watch. It used to be. they used to be a tool watch, which is. crazy because you think of them today as. being luxury. Yeah. But the reason why. they were built so well was just for you.

know, use them diving. Yeah, exactly. >> They were actually a watch that people. would dive with. >> Exactly. And also you wear something. like this or like that then people like. watch people know. They'll see it and be. like, "Oh, okay." It's not like it's. some guy that went out and bought an. expensive watch. They're like, "Okay, if. someone put a lot of thought into this.". Like you're wearing the Willard and me. having those MacV SOGs and this one from. 1968. Um it's. it tells you put a little more thought. into this sort of thing than like just. what's an expensive watch or something. something along those lines. Yeah. But I. yeah, I mean this tells a story. Yeah, it's pretty dope. And uh it's pretty.

thin, too. Yeah. >> little little thinner than I than I. thought when I came the in the band's a. little different. It kind of Mhm. makes. some takes some noise there, but I I. love this. And so it's these and the. Tudors that guys were wearing back in. Vietnam, the SEALs in particular. They. had the Tudor Submariner. So I got one. of those recently. I've been wanting to. get one for years cuz when I got to the. SEAL teams, they were This is a rumor so. I never saw it with my own eyes, but uh. so it's second-hand information is that. they're in supply they were destroying. the Tudors with hammers. And I can't. then cuz now we're getting issued. Seikos. And so they'd issued these to. the guys that actually they jumped in to.

get the Apollo spacecraft. Uh SEALs. jumped in after those things, UDT SEALs, uh to get those guys out of the water. And uh and these people in supply, I. think in the the '90s were destroying. the Tudors for some reason, probably cuz. they were told to uh so guys wouldn't. get them and sell them or something like. that, I don't know. But uh but I did I. track one down recently through the. through Watches of Espionage and. uh so he he found me a new Tudor and. then or an old Tudor. But I got that and. then we did a little documentary with. some old guys from uh the '70s from in. the '60s that were SEALs in in Vietnam.

and they were pulled out of Vietnam. They were in Vietnam one day and then. the next day they were off the in the. Pacific on an aircraft carrier waiting. to recover the uh the Apollo astronauts. Whoa. >> Yeah, pretty cool. We did a documentary. on it for for Tudor. And uh it was it. was pretty cool to talk to those guys. I. mean just just amazing. Cuz now they're. they're taking lives in Vietnam and then. they're supposed to they're now they're. just thrown into this this on these. helicopters to jump into the ocean to. save lives. It's kind of a cool. juxtaposition. Yeah, for sure. It is. interesting that their their equipment. became luxury. Yeah. Weird. Well, you. can go back I love these old ads, Rolex.

ads from must be the '60s I think. they're '60s, '70s, '80s. I mean there's. some from the early '80s where they have. a guy like with a rhino and it's like. the editor of Guns & Ammo magazine with. his dead rhino wears a Rolex. And they. had at least Yeah, they had like two of. those types of ads back then. They don't. like to acknowledge that today, I don't. think. >> Yeah, don't kill rhinos. But but they. had but that was like in the early '80s. that's what they were they were still. marketing towards that. So yeah, really. cool. >> rugged. Mhm. Well, think about didn't. James Bond always have a watch? There we. go. If you're looking for a lost empire. here tomorrow, you'd wear a Rolex.

>> There's one. Wow, isn't that crazy? But. you got to find the one with the rhino. Well, they're they're so. [ __ ] dependable. >> Yeah. Frederick Forsyth, the author, actually had one. They used to do they. used to do had a relationship with him. in the '70s and '80s. And they're like, "Here's Frederick Forsyth who wrote Day. of the Jackal wearing his jackal coat in. front of his Jaguar." And it's just. you'd never see that today. Yeah, but. there it is. Yeah, there you go. >> oil well fires were your job, you'd wear. a Rolex. Isn't that crazy? What? Yeah. We Let's see if we can find the uh find.

a hunting one. Maybe Rolex hunting or. something. Um but they're just. >> Look at that racing here. Look it's for. anybody that's doing anything difficult. Yeah, yeah. It's kind of crazy. And now. it's now it's tennis and it's golf. Well, now it's just like, you know, looking fancy at a restaurant. or whatever you're doing. There we go. There's Connery right there, the. Thunderball action. Yeah, yeah. Love it. Yeah. Fleming had one. They He. doesn't say which specific model it is. in the books. Um of course Omega sponsored the the. movie starting with Bronson, I think. But uh but.

in the books it's a Rolex. He doesn't. say what specific model, but he wore it, I think. What Fleming wore an Explorer, I think. >> There it is. But. uh oh, there you go. Have you hunted big. game over the world? Cape buffalo. >> There's Cape buffalo right there. With a. Rolex. Wow. Pretty cool. Weird. Yeah, they don't do that today. Just weird that that became it went from. being like this manly super durable. thing to Like when did people really. start getting into watches and. collecting them? And when did it become. like a fetish? Must be the '80s. Yeah? >> Must be the '80s, I would guess. I mean.

I think it's always been a thing cuz you. can go back and find like amazing Patek. Philippes and stuff like that. You can. go back and find the Omegas, the old. Rolexes and it's a thing. So But now. it's kind of nuts. Yeah, now it's gotten. a little little crazy, which is why I. like the vintage stuff cuz it puts a. little more just like the cars, just. like it's my time machine. Now when. people have like those Richard Mille. watches and you hear they're half a. million dollars, like, "What are you. talking about? Why are you buying that? Yeah. >> Like what's going on here that I'm. missing?" That's an amazing story. Like. I mean that that it's not like that has. a huge history to it. It's fairly recent. for those watches. Do you know what the.

rumor is? The rumor is that one of the first. watches that he was supposed to sell was. supposed to be $15,000, but someone put. an extra zero on it. No way. Really? >> This is what someone told me. >> Hey, it's good. That's a good story. Hey, it's a good story. >> people bought it. He's like, "Hey, hey, hey.". Let's try 300. Sometimes that's how it. works. I mean people love the watches. It's a beautiful. if you're into that style of watch. I. like simple. Yeah. That's what I like. I. like This is why I like the Seiko. Nobody gives a [ __ ] about it. It's not. impressing anybody. Well, it does if you. know. If you know. But it's like it's a.

really well-made watch. It'll never [ __ ]. up. It's got I think it's got a 52-hour. time reserve. Yeah, yeah. I love that. stuff. We're very intentional with all. all the gear in the TV show. >> are. Yeah. >> It's uh and And your books as well. >> Yeah, in the books as well. So it tells. a story. You know, you see somebody with. that, that tells something that tells me. something about you. Uh you see. something with the the Richard Mille, whatever you say. Richard Mille, Richard. Mille, I think it is. It probably is. Richard Mille, but it's like dang it to. sell. When you add another zero, then. then it goes to like Joe Dirtay, you. know? Yeah, exactly. So it changes.

things a little bit. Yeah. But that's. but it tells me a story. Just like like. the characters in the book, the watches. in particular are important. One cuz it's important to to me as a. watch guy my whole life. For some reason. I just had this connection with with. time and the value of time. And so I've. always been a watch guy my whole my. whole life. And so putting these watches. on characters that tell you something. about that character. Like in Dark Wolf, they have to get rid of their G-Shocks. and go get something that would make. look a little more European. And uh for. when they transition over from being. these SEAL guys to being these CIA. operatives. And drop get rid of the.

gators. We say get rid of the gators, get some sunglasses, get some expensive. watches. Mhm. That sort of thing. But I. still wanted something that had a. connection to the SEAL teams. So uh. picked a Tudor for uh for Taylor. Kitsch's character. And uh I got that. one. I got to keep that one. So that was. that was pretty cool. Um and then put a Panerai on on Rafe. Hastings, Tom Hopper's character, uh to. differentiate him a bit from uh from um. Ben Edwards, the Taylor Kitsch. character. But And also Tom's a big dude. so you need a big watch on that guy. >> Right. He's huge. He is huge. Oh my. gosh. I think all the all the like my.

wife and her friends were so excited. about Taylor being in the show cuz the. Texas forever, you know? And they were. all coming up during that time frame. where he's in front of the lights and. all that stuff. And then uh then Tom. Hopper gets out of the pool without a. shirt on and they're like, "Tom Hopper! Oh my god, it is." And so I. told Tom that probably if we do Savage. Sun as a as a movie, he's probably not. going to have his shirt on much in. there. Got to expand the audience. Got to. expand the audience. >> We got to sell streamers. Exactly. Exactly. But he's such a good dude. That's awesome. >> those guys are great. >> It's also What is it like like having.

this thing that you sat down by. yourself, this world that you created, and now you're you're not just selling. books, but you're filming the visual. representation of your work? It's got to. be kind of surreal. It is surreal. Every. time I walk on the set, I feel that way. I feel it's grateful for the most part. I feel so much gratitude. towards everyone involved. And of course. the people who made it happen, most. specifically Chris. Cuz if Chris didn't. want to do it, didn't want to option it, probably wouldn't happen. Um it wouldn't have happened. We. wouldn't be on this journey together. And he's so invested in it. Um when you.

mentioned some other shows earlier and. there's just there's a a difference. between an actor who gets paid to do. something, does it and moves on to the. next project and somebody like Chris who. was so invested in this. And I think the. other actors see that and Taylor's just. like this by nature at like American. Primeval, any role Taylor takes on he is. uh just so invested in it. It's not just. a paycheck. Like it is it's going to now. become part of his experience. And uh. and he really looks at it through a. through that kind of a lens. So to have. guys like that involved that are so. personally connected to the material and. also to the community like the veteran. community and large. Um it means.

something. to them and so they put so much into it. So when I walk on set uh it is surreal. and to know that everybody is and people. come up to me all the time on set and. thank me for creating this universe. allowing them to be there. Um but not. just that they can be there working on a. set it's that we have created mostly. through Chris, Antoine Fuqua, David. DiGilio, all these guys at the top. David DiGilio is the showrunner and to. have build this family. And people come. up to me all the time and they say that. they've been involved in hundreds of. Hollywood productions and have never.

felt this way on a set before. And. that's because you're filming these. things for 7-8 months and that doesn't. count all the all the work that goes. into the scripts ahead of time and all. the post-production. So just being on. set and so during that time people are. going to. get married, get divorced, lose loved. ones. All life is going to happen and David. DiGilio in particular as the showrunner. he makes sure that everyone is taken. care of and we're also bringing people. along with us. So if they're in a. department this this season they're. going to move their way up in that. department next season. So it's they.

really feel taken care of and it's all. genuine and I think that helps bring. everybody bring their A-game and. everyone is so happy to be there on. these sets. It's really cool and people. tell me how different they they want to. make sure that I know that it's not like. this on every Hollywood production. That's cool. That's got to feel great. That's cool. It is and I mean even the. wrap party it trickles down from the. top. You know comes down comes down from. the top for sure. Um and even at the wrap party people. these guys hang out after like all the. actors hang out afterwards. The cast, the crew, everybody's hanging out after. hours. They're not just shh turning into.

ghosts. They're hanging out having a. great time. Uh wrap party like. uh I've heard that a lot of the the like. number one on the call sheets maybe. they'll make a quick appearance and. leave or something like that. I mean. Chris is there. He's in it having a. great time. Uh everyone's thanking. everybody. Uh such a such a great guy. He's a very normal guy. For a movie star. he's oddly normal. Yeah he's a normal guy like I mean just. like us. We spent time with him you know. outside of anything you know. professional. We were there yeah. So it was like he. just hangs out with everybody. He's like.

so cool. Yeah. So normal you know for a. movie star to just be chilling. Such a. great guy. We uh. we we like speaking of Tom Cruise and. all the stunts so with the last thing. that we filmed in Morocco was underwater. sequences. So it was was not filmed. linear in a linear style. So from from. the first episode. So it's Chris falling. off the boat and being underwater. And. he's on in this pool underwater not a. stunt double. We had some stunt double. do some falls and stuff like that. Chris. Romrell who's awesome looks like Chris. takes some crazy beatings. He's amazing. Um and he's a huge dude. He can just.

stand right here and do a backflip. Like. it's it's insane. The guy's a huge dude. It's awesome. Uh and such a nice guy. too. But Chris underwater like and you. can have this underwater like. communication system. They're like all. right ready 3 2 1 action and he takes a. thing from a regulator and then it goes. away and then we're filming and he was. under there for like 3 plus minutes. holding his breath doing this stuff. Yeah. And for anyone who's tried to hold. their breath for 3 minutes that's. serious. But underwater and we're like. and we we're watching this thing we're. like uh is he okay?

Uh and now he's just showing off. That's. the part where we're like cut and he. stays down there like what? Like he's. just now he's just showing off at this. point. But he's a big boy. I think he's just a bit from wrestling. and from all this other stuff breath. control stuff. He's such an athlete um. that I think it was just kind of. natural. I don't think he was prepping. for it. I think he just did it. And uh. but it looks so good. It looks crazy all. the stuff that he gave us down there. It's amazing. And that's how we finished. up the show is to finish that all the. cast and crew around at night all the. lights underwater stuff. Chris getting. yanked out of the water and then that. was the end and we went right to the. party from there. So it's awesome. Yeah.

yeah. And then we got to talk about the. future of the show. We stayed up pretty. late. Um and uh and me and Chris and the. showrunner and Jared Shaw who you met. when we were hunting that time who gave. Chris the book former SEAL buddy of mine. and uh and so we all got to talk about. the future of the show. So hopefully. it's uh Savage Son next and that's. people's favorite I think of the books. That and Red Sky Morning the last one. and and mine is this one. Everyone has. been my favorite thus far but uh uh this. Vietnam book's your favorite book you've. written? Yep. Uh hands down. Uh one. because how much I put into it and one I.

want to get better with everything that. I every book I think has gotten better. as I go along and if I can say that. truthfully to myself then I feel like. I'm doing doing my job and doing my. service to the story which in turn. serves the reader. People who are. trusting me with his time that they're. never going to get back. It's like every. other skill, right? The more time you. invest in it and the more you hone it. and the more It should be getting. better. attention. Yeah. It has to. >> be getting better. >> to. You have to get better. Because you. can tell when people start phoning it. in. You can tell. >> they're not enthusiastic anymore and.

Yep. And this one I mean like there's a. lot of pressure from publishers also to. get things in on time cuz now I sell. like maybe at the beginning it didn't. matter but at this stage it it matters. because of the number of books that are. being sold. So they need to it's a. business and so they need to make their. their numbers. And so as a creative. person they are putting a lot of. pressure to to get get it done. Just get. it done. And uh and I have to fend it. off. I have to like hey whatever. pressure is put on me from the outside. I've got to focus on this story and it's. going to be done when it's done cuz it. has to be the best that it can possibly. be. And uh but that's a lot of that's a.

lot of pressure coming in from the. outside and you have to fend it off but. I can see you know how if you're I can. see it being very easy to just say okay. I got to 100,000 words I got to wrap. this thing up. And I'll never I'll never. do that. My readers mean too much to me. The story means too much to me. This. profession means too much for me to ever. do something like that. >> How many what is the percentage of. audiobooks versus hard hard copy? >> more audio. Really? Like how much more? >> I don't know cuz I don't look at the. numbers. I'm not a business guy. I'm. more of an entrepreneurial type of mind. So just knowing that Simon & Schuster is. incredibly happy across the board. So.

these the paperback sales. they do have numbers yeah and they share. them and I just see numbers and but I. couldn't tell you exactly. It's a lot. Yeah it's a lot. And I think that's Ray Porter. I mean. incredible. He's. fantastic. Such a good human being too. We we use his voice in in Dark Wolf for. those those listening. They'll they'll. be able to recognize his voice in there. >> skill to be able to do all those. different voices and accents and then. not have it jarring that a man is. playing a woman. Yeah. You know which is. weird cuz he plays he has got to play a. woman's voice. That's a tough one for.

any guy. >> [ __ ] weird. You know it's weird cuz. you have to kind of like there's a. suspension of disbelief. Yeah yeah. You. know in the in the real world you're. like hey [ __ ] off that's not a chick. You know you got a phone call from a. lady. Right. Yeah. yeah hold on a second. >> at the barber shop. Like what what the. [ __ ] They call that a clue. What [ __ ]. going on? Yeah. They call that call that. a clue. You probably listen to it. You. listen you're looking for it I guess. >> His girl voice is oddly believable. Yeah. I mean I can't imagine anybody else who. can do it do it better. That's that's a. tough one. That's a tough position to. put a person in. Like I do Chris.

accents. Like Rafe Spall's accent. Oh my. gosh. I give him a tough one in this one. too. I have a guy who's actually based. on a real person. Um in the book he. lives in real life he died in I think. 1965 but it was a a Finnish officer who. uh got the uh whatever the Finnish cross. is it's in the book I forget exactly. what it is but then fought for the. Germans and got like the German Mannheim. Cross or something and then after World. War II they tried to grab a bunch of. people who had experience in essentially. Eastern Europe to bring over to our. military so that we would have. experience if we went to war with the.

Soviets. And so they brought all these. guys in into the military and so then he. gets a Bronze Star in the United States. military Army Special Forces. His. helicopter went down I think it was 1965. but he was part of MACV-SOG. So I. fictionalized his character in here. So. I had to give those three so I have to. have so Finnish, German, and English. kind of a morph and Ray Porter has to do. that. And so he has to read that and and. come up with something like that and he. he pulls it off. It's incredible. Wow. >> texting him before I came in here. actually and he's filming a play up in.

in Oregon Waiting for Godot I think. right now. So I'd love to see him on. stage and see uh just see him not just. doing the voice but acting. Yeah I don't. I've never seen him in anything I don't. think. He's Darkseid. He's Darkseid in. that uh Justice League. So but he does a. bunch of you can't really you know do. the voice. >> that. Yeah. So he's in he's in that. He's in he's in uh Almost Famous, uh a. bunch of sitcoms in the 90s and uh just. just but just an awesome dude. But but. yeah audiobooks I think it's because of. podcasts. I think people listen to a. podcast and it is very natural way to. then get whatever you're talking about.

on the podcast through the same medium. So over to audiobook. It's just a very. natural transition to listen to the. audiobook and a lot of people are doing. both thank goodness. So they're getting. the hard cover and then they're. listening on the car on the way home and. then they get inside and they're reading. a little bit before bed get up to go to. work in the morning pick up again where. they left off reading. So a lot of. people are doing both. Well you know. Audible the way it works with Kindle. Kind Kin Kindle rather there's there's. an app where it'll pick up where you. are. Isn't it interesting?

What is it? Whisper? Whisper sync something like that. So it. picks up exactly where you left off. reading and it'll pick up with the. audiobook. And then the audiobook will. know that you uh you're you're reading. at night. and so it'll pick up where you left off. the next day. Interesting. But that's. got to be on a Kindle. I can't do the Kindle. I I feel like I. do so much work on a screen that I don't. want to have something I read for. enjoyment to be the same thing. So I. want it to be I'm going to physical book. to go through. I just I'm just that kind.

of guy. >> The dope thing about a Kindle though is. you can get 80 books on it or probably. 80,000. I don't even know how many you. can get on them honestly but and then. the also the white paper screen where it. really does look like paper. Pretty. [ __ ] incredible. Yeah. Still for me. once again like the watches like the. cars I have a thing it's a theme. It's a. thing. I love that. A lot of people are like. that. It's like there's a it's a thing. that you have in your hands and you're. turning the pages is like the tactile. feeling, and you. You know what. >> you're halfway into the book, like, "Oh.

my god, things are getting crazy. I'm. halfway here. This is the end. How's he. going to wrap this up?". >> see it rather than I'm at 37%. Exactly. It don't mean anything. >> Just a different type of a type of a. deal, but I picked up Charlie Sheen's. book in the airport on the way here. >> Oh, did you? And uh so I'm reading it. about halfway through cuz he's coming on. my on the podcast, and I want to talk to. him. I'm going to ask him about, you. know, Apocalypse I'm going to keep it to. Apocalypse Now, Platoon, Navy SEALs, kind of like keep it in in that kind of. thing, but reading that book, oh my. gosh, it's a it's amazing. But I had to. buy it. I couldn't just get it on the I. already had the PDF. They sent it to me, but I wanted to buy the book. I wanted. to physically have it and make my notes.

in there and all that. So, um so I'm so. I'm doing that, but listening to him on. this on your podcast was uh was so. interesting. Oh, yeah. What a weird guy. Yeah. It's what I told people, like, you. can't be normal if you're on the set of. Apocalypse Now when you're 10 years old, and then 10 years later you're in. Platoon. >> Yeah. You're the lead. >> Yeah. >> in Platoon 10 years later. Like, how do. you like Yeah. How do you expect that. guy to be normal? >> Yeah. No one can handle that. It's not. handleable. Yeah. That level of stardom.

is especially in the '80s before phones. and everything else when they got after. it. Oh, and the drugs. I mean, he was. involved with so much drugs. >> From early on. >> Yeah, and back then you could do drugs. Like, you didn't die. Like, actually one of the ladies he talked. about in the documentary that gave him a. [ __ ] while he was smoking crack for. the first time. I saw that. She died of. an overdose, but you got to try hard. It's not like today you got to. accidentally do a snort of coke, and. then it's fentanyl-laced, and you're.

dead. Right. And that's 100,000 people. in America every year. It's crazy. >> Yeah. But what he was doing was just. going hog wild. >> That he's alive And he's alive. >> is incre- yeah, and he He looks good. He. looks Yeah, he looks great. >> Dude, he looks a lot better than he's. looked in in the past. Like, when he. came in here, I'm like, "Dude, you look. healthy.". >> Yeah. I think he said he'd almost been. sober for 8 years, been sober for 7 plus. years. Man. It's coming on 8 years. I. think he said December, I forget, but it. was very impressive. And he's like.

really nice guy. Yeah. You know? >> No, it seems like it. He uh he he he. like he's was a fan of the books. beforehand, so he likes all this stuff, likes Dark Wolf, likes Terminal List, all that stuff. So, yeah, so that'll be. fun to fun to talk to him. And also I. went to see Navy SEALs the the day. before it came out. There was a showing. at like midnight on Thursday or. something like that before it came out. on Friday back when I was in uh in high. school, and I knew I was going to be a. SEAL, so I was so excited. I'm like, "They cast Charlie Sheen, the guy from. Platoon, in this?" I'm like, "Ah, perfect casting." And uh and so I went. and saw it there. And so it'll be fun to. talk to him about that stuff. And I do. remember we I did meet him at a Is it. Red Sox game? Is that the one that they.

wa- Is that his team? I think so. But. him and his dad were in a box next to. us. I was still in the SEAL teams, and I. was with some of the guys that were on. the Bin Laden raid, and we were in one. of the the owner's boxes. And uh and. Charlie Sheen was next to us with his. dad. And uh somehow they got to talking. or whatever, and so we went over there. or he came over to us, I can't remember, with his dad, and uh said hi, and he was. he was fantastic. His dad was such a. gentleman. That stands out to me. But. Charlie Sheen was awesome, so. personable. He was great. His dad was so. nice. And I stand like an old-school. type gentleman is what stood out about. Martin Sheen. And then what also stands.

out is then we then left there at the. end of the game, and there was a line of. girls down the I'll tell him this when I. I see I see if he remembers. He might. not remember, but cuz it probably. happened. at almost every day for him. Just a line. of girls down the hallway outside of the. owner's box. Trying to meet him. >> Yeah. They weren't there for me. Well, what are you going to do? >> Yeah. Yeah. But they were there for. Charlie. And uh that was that was pretty. cool. Must be rough. Yeah. Yeah. He had a he. had a real I mean, what a crazy life. And then you guys came back in and had. to deal with the the Charlie Kirk. assassination, and I thought you guys.

handled that in such a such a thoughtful. way real time. Uh that's a tough. position for both you guys to be in. I. hadn't seen it yet, you know? I just. heard, and then I really didn't want to. see it. I said I wasn't going to see it, but then someone. someone texted to me, and I just. couldn't help myself. I clicked on it. I'm like, "Oh, why did I watch that?" I know. So sad. I was signing the those books. I. was signing the the books right there. that day with my chief of staff, and and. uh she was passing me the books, and I'm. signing them, and we're checking off the. the names for these pub boxes, and uh.

all of a sudden her phone goes off, and. I heard she screams. And uh I was like, "Whoa, what happened?" Her husband is uh. in the security field, um and uh she. said Charlie Kirk's been shot in Utah. I'm like, so I of course go to X, and. then see it. And I then I didn't get to. my kids in time cuz uh my daughter and. our youngest son are both uh follow him, think feel like they know him. essentially, and I didn't get to them in. time before they they saw it. So, our. our our youngest I was most concerned. about uh seeing that, being away from. home at boarding school. And uh anyway,

called the school. One of the guys uh. there is a trusted agent. He's like a. guy's guy like us. And we were able to. track him down, and he was doing fine, but it's uh it's different than seeing. in the paper or on having Walter. Cronkite report that JFK was killed. That's that's different, I think. Uh. Challenger for us in school when we were. growing up, like we saw it explode, but. you're not seeing the people. You're not. seeing it as viscerally from all these. different angles, from cell phones, from. immediately, so graphic. Uh just so. heartbreaking. So so heartbreaking. Um and but you guys I mean, you guys.

were had to do it like real time. And I. know you guys were very thoughtful about. how you dealt with it. >> Thanks. It was weird. It always feels. surreal when someone dies, but when. someone gets assassinated like that. And. then there was the weirdness of the. reactions of people. That That was the. most disturbing aspect of Oh my god. That was the most What have we done? >> I know. Like, what have we done to. people's minds with social media and. with political discourse that you are. thrilled that someone was murdered in.

front of his children. on the internet for the world to see, and you are you are celebrating because. you didn't like his ideas. >> Yeah. Like, that is so crazy that we've gone. that far. >> Yeah. I mean, you feel you can feel the. the evil. And as much as I tried not to. to look at all these reactions, it's. being fed to me cuz of the the algorithm. and everything else. So, there were two. in particular. One guy, one lady, and. they were like cackling, like a witch's. cackle, like out of a like some sort of.

a uh some sort of a fairy tale that's. meant to scare kids that, you know, but. in real life celebrating the death of. Charlie Kirk. And I mean, that was a. revolting, but you could feel the evil. through the cackles. I've never felt. like that before. I've I mean, very few. times, I should say. I think a lot of it. is very performative, and I think a lot. of people are doing it for clicks and. likes, and they think that there's a lot. of like-minded people that feel the way. they feel. And then there was a a wave. of people that were like excited about. losing someone who's a right-wing. influencer. They were happy about it.

It was real weird. Yeah. >> Like, and and and continues to really. kind of [ __ ] with my head because I. didn't think that that would be the. case. I'd hoped it would be very few. people. I'd I'd I'd hope, but it wasn't. It was a lot. It was a lot in real life, too. It wasn't just social media. You know, I have I've had multiple. friends that encountered people. celebrating in real life. One of my. friends was at a cafe writing, and this lady came in, and she was on a. Zoom call, and uh she it was right after.

the assassination, and she gets in the. Zoom call, and she's like, "Well, I. don't know about you guys, but I am. having a great day now." And they were. like, "This is a great day. I'm having a. great day, too. I'm having a great day. The events of the day have made me very. happy." And they were laughing and. smiling and like clapping pub- publicly. Yeah. >> Like, in in a cafe. And it was very. obvious what they were talking about. I. was like, "That's so gross." Uh.

they didn't feel comfortable enough to. do that? Like, that's acceptable? You're. you're you want that attached to you for. the rest of your life, and you don't. take 1 second to say, "Ah, maybe even. from a practical standpoint, like, maybe. I should just sit this out. Even if I. feel happy, maybe I should do some. reevaluations." But even if that's not. the case, uh like maybe I should just. sit this one out type of a thing. But. instead, they feel comfortable to jump. on and say those things. And maybe it. was ridiculous, and I I mean, you felt. the I mean, I could feel the evil coming. through the phone, which is a strange. thing to say. And I've been like in. Bagram early on in the war in. Afghanistan. I remember the uh I forget.

if I don't know if it was a really a. black site prison, but it was like a. nasty prison. They had this smell, and. you could feel like this the kind of. this overriding sense of I don't know. You had despair, but also like this. little bit of. a current of evil in there. And then. same thing in Baghdad where they held. Saddam. Like, being in there. I've been. in both those places. And uh and you you. kind of feel a little bit But even more. so, you feel it with Saddam's kids in. their like they had these little islands. and palaces, and you know what they did. there. Uh they could pull in girls off. the street and that sort of thing, and. you just feel. Feeding them to dogs. you feel evil. I. mean, you sense it in some of those.

places, but uh but I felt that same kind. of thing coming through the phone. And. then I felt it again. It's weird to feel. it so many times. My wife and I were in. Paris, like I said, right before I came. out here. Uh so it was Morocco finishing. the show for about a month, then to. Paris, and it happened to be Fashion. Week, and we weren't there for Fashion. Week. It just happened to be Fashion. Week. So, it's uh which is still going. on now, I think. But we were in this uh. we wanted to go to one dinner where we. could see some people, kind of do some. people watching, and I could store some. of it away for books, and that's what. I'm I'm always collecting. I'm always. collecting. And so we went in one of the. place that. Kardashians again where they stay, called the Costes or Anyway, we went to.

this hotel that's that's uh where a lot. of the fashion people stay. It was. interesting at first. We're seeing some. people just treat the wait staff. horribly, um and so you're getting just. kind of taking some notes on that, and. uh and then this guy walks in with like. two minions, and you don't see his face. cuz he's got this like hood on, but. there are these earrings that are. attached to the outside, and they're. hanging down, and he's this like fairly. obese person. And so you never saw his. face the way he was he he walked in, and. then sat in front of us with these two. guys on either side that had their. sunglasses on, and they were like both.

dressed very similarly, and both side of. them they just were looking at him like. this, and just it it was so odd, but you. felt this sense of evil. And I I don't. really like using that word too much, but you felt something odd. So much so. that uh we paid the bill and left. It. was odd. It was so odd. And uh similar thing that I felt coming. across the phone with those people that. celebrated Charlie Kirk. >> I don't know. We were going to go back. to our hotel and look up like try to see. like who's at Fashion Week and who. dresses this way cuz it was very. strange. Like these black robes and it. was just the weirdest thing. It was so.

odd. >> Yeah, but attached through the through. the like like your hoodie's on and kind. of like clipped to the outside or. something and coming down like from the. outside of like this thin hoodie. It was. very bizarre. Very bizarre. But you felt. like that person was evil. Yeah. I've. never I mean very rarely do you feel I. do I feel that anyway. Huh. You know, it's very strange feeling but I've. learned to listen to my to those. feelings. Listen to the gut. Listen to. that sixth sense that kept us alive I. bet if you went to Davos when they have. like those W World Economic Forum. conferences I bet you'd smell brimstone.

Maybe. I bet you would. I'd be looking for it. though. That's maybe different. You. know, that might be different if you're. actually looking for it. It's kind of a. difference. Like I'm not looking. >> like whenever you can get a bunch of. billionaires together that that are. trying to decide the fate of the world I. bet you feel evil. >> I don't know. I'm I'm have to go to one. of those at some point. I did I did. I did go to Bohemian Grove. I don't know. if you know talk about it but it's uh I. didn't feel that there. Like it was more. like guys getting away for the weekend. to drink. I've heard a lot of people say. that about Bohemian Grove recently. >> Yeah. And and I know people that have.

gone like that have been invited. Kid. Rock told me he went. I've been there. Couple other guys told me they went. They're like I want to see what the [ __ ]. it is. So they went. I'm like but did. you ever watch that Alex Jones video? Like when Alex Jones and Jon Ronson. snuck in to That's back when Alex Jones. and Jon Ronson were united. >> Who's Jon Ronson? Jon Ronson is the. British journalist. >> Oh, okay. Uh he's the guy who wrote So. You've Been Publicly Shamed. I don't. know. I'll have to look it up. It's. about like one of the it's it's about. like the first mass cancellations. through social media. Oh, I see. Okay.

>> new public shaming thing that happens. Yeah, yeah. Uh very interesting guy. But. there it is. There's Ronson. Okay. And so he snuck in with Alex Jones. Yeah, I saw some of it. So I didn't see. anything weird like that and but I know. what you're talking about the burning. thing. I think that's when I think about. it cuz I didn't see any of that stuff. But uh I'm thinking it must be. >> that anymore. Maybe not. I don't know. but I but. >> Alex probably ruined the party. >> Maybe. But I think when I'm thinking. about it if I think about it logically, you know, when you like throw something. into a fire like at at Buds guys would.

burn their dungarees and dungarees are. like a regular navy uniform and if you. make it through Buds and don't get. kicked out of the teams you'll never. have to wear that uniform again and it's. like it it was awful. It was bell bottom. jeans and a denim shirt like tucked in. that you had to starch and especially in. boot camp in a way that like well you. hold it out flat. It's this it's awful. Um and the little dixie cup hat. Like. that's the uniform. Like the worst. uniform in the history of uniforms. Like. there's nothing tough about about that. Uh but people would burn them. And so. like never going back, you know, like. that's sort of the thing. And then 80%.

would quit. But they burn the uh their. uniform. So I think it may be something. like that. You know, you want to burn. something like I that's that's what I. think it might be but I don't know. 80%. would quit before they get through Buds. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Along the way most in Hell Week but but. at some point along the way typically. 80% give or take, you know, won't make. it but but burning that thing is kind of. like burning the boats which is not They. get through Hell Week and they still. quit? Some. Some. Not many. Not many. Most people would be performance dropped. after that for not being comfortable in. the water for pool comp when you're.

getting pounded off the the bottom of. the pool by. by instructors and then you're having to. go through the right procedures to get. your air turned back on and continue to. to crawl and then they come and hit you. again and rip your mask off and hit you. in the guts to expel your air, turn off. your air, tie your cuz it's the two. hoses super old school, tie them in a. knot and then they back off to see that. you're comfortable in the water and that. you're going to go through the right. procedures to get everything working. again and continue on. So that's about. 15 minutes of doing that. Uh and some. people just aren't comfortable in the. water and so they'll go. >> just a panic thing? Yeah. I mean your. air's cut off.

and it's easy to get more air. I mean. you're only 10 ft or 15 ft whatever it. is back to air. So it's very easy to get. that air. But you have to go through the. right procedures and just like you've. been taught and be very comfortable and. yeah, that's that's what the test is all. about. >> you in the stomach? >> Yeah, so you. you lose some air. So it just it just. makes you even more. comfortable in the water. >> That makes a big difference like who's. punching you. Yeah, instructor. Yeah. Instructor. >> they're hitting you. >> Yeah. Yeah. And it's a yeah and they. bounce you off the bottom. You kind of. just go limp. Mhm. Just relax just like. in jujitsu or something like that. Like. okay, relax and then okay, now I'm going.

to get into this. So. uh I love I love that sort of thing cuz. that was the only time in Buds where it. was like mano e mano against the. instructor. The rest of the time you're. just getting yelled at, being told. you're worthless, push ups, sit ups, run, swim. But now it's like okay, you. and me. I I love that. Same thing like. it was called uh. life saving. So that's the other time. you get to put your hands on the. instructors is you have to go out and. act like a different type of person. drowning. So they'll fight you or. they're just dead weights or something. like that and they're different body. types. Mhm. And so you get to go you. swim out towards them and then you have. to get them back and they'll take you.

down to the bottom, hit you off the. bottom. So they're doing the work in. that in that that situation and you just. relax, hold on just like you're got. someone in like a rear naked choke type. thing and and then they have to go up. they're expending their energy keeping. you down there. They're going to have to. go up and get the air. So just wait, get. up to the top, grab a little bit of air, get closer to the side of the pool then. they take you down again type of a. thing. And I love that. Cuz it's the. only time you can put your hands on an. instructor. Uh so I thought that was that was good. I like that. So but you have to put your. hands on them like you're rescuing them. >> Yeah. You can't just choke them. No.

Cuz I'd be like this dude is [ __ ]. ruining it and I'm going to put him to. sleep. No, but there's some similarities. there. Just some similarities with body. positions and and all that sort of thing. just being comfortable uh with that. without air for sure. >> on how you grab them. >> Yeah, they teach you how to how to how. to grab them and how to get towards the. side of the pool type of thing. >> Right. You can't keep them down if you. got better breath than they do. No. You. can't like hold them down or anything. No, I don't think so. You know, they. start coming up you're like not today, [ __ ] No, I mean I guess somebody. could, you know, but that's uh that. doesn't sound right. >> champion free diver? If you're one of. those 10-minute dudes?

>> You do have some people like that to. come through. >> I bet. >> You know, you do have some really. incredible athletes that come through. >> I bet. And a lot of them don't make it. cuz they're being them treated like uh. Ferraris or Lamborghinis most of their. life if they're really an elite athlete. and then all of a sudden they're being. treated like a like a Chevy, you know, and they're just thrown through walls or. whatever and they're just like meh. Not uh Crazy pressure test that has to. be done. I mean there's no job that's. similar other than you know, Rangers and. other. elite special forces teams where you. have to get through.

this horrific thing to prove that you're. the type of person that they want to. train. Yeah. Like we're not sure if we. want to train you even. >> Yeah. So we we don't we don't know if. we're ever going to use you. Yeah. And. so we're going to try to break you. Yeah. Got to prove that you want to be. here and that you have the mental. fortitude to be here. um that you have you can work as a team. There's a few different things that. they're they're looking for but uh it's. worked for a while. You know, it's. worked for a long time. It's a good. test. But it was getting really weird. during the wokey wokey years where they. were talking about lowering the. standards. Right. There is that and then.

the So the standard part So even if they. say that they're not lowering the. standards, this is how they get around. it and this is military in general um. that they give you more chances. So. before if you only got one or two. chances, maybe three, something like. that to pass an evolution Mhm. maybe the. standard remains the same but in order. to get this person said person through, now you get four chances, five chances, six chances, seven chances, eight. chances. So they say the standards have. not changed. Well, okay, not really but. you gave them a lot more chances which.

you didn't give other people before who. were washed out of the program because. they only got one chance or two chances. or three. So it's uh. >> Like what would it be that you would get. more chances doing? Like that pool comp. thing. I think you got uh you got two. chances on the first day and two chances. on the second day and uh I passed the. first day just cuz I happened to be. comfortable in the water but uh but some. guys made it through on that fourth one. like oh Made it just made it. But they. didn't get a fifth. They did not get a. sixth. Right. And now maybe I don't I. don't know if this is true but this is a. way around the standards. Uh give. somebody a fifth, give them a sixth, something like that. Or you failed the. old course. Uh okay, one time you get.

some sort of a like a warning or. something like that and then you do it. again, second time you're out or. whatever it is. Well, now you can just. just as many times as it takes. Oh, they. passed it. They passed it once. Let's. move them on. Were they doing that to. just expand the ranks or were they doing. it to get a specific demographic? Well, I'm not saying that they did it. I'm. saying that's how you would get around. the standards. Like the you'd be able to. say that we haven't we haven't lowered. the standards, sir, type of a thing when. you're in front of Congress and they.

don't know where that to ask those kind. of questions. Well, did you okay. Well, did you give them more chances? Did you. change anything? Yeah. Yeah, something. like that. So they can get away with. yeah, telling the truth-ish but not. expanding on that. So that's just a way. to do it. So um so What a bizarre sign. of the times to make elite special. forces units more easy to get into. Yeah. It's uh it's a thing. It's. strange, right? Because there there was. a push to lower standards. There's a. push to try to get women in it, too, right? I think so. I don't know how much. of a push it is or. >> any women ever gone through it? I don't.

know how far they've gotten. I think. there were a couple that tried it and. haven't made it. I'm not sure cuz I'm so. removed from it now but uh I think there. there I don't know if there's a push for. it but it's open now. And the part of. that is it's for me it's you know, I'll. probably get canceled now. But uh you. know, or maybe we're past that. I don't. know. But uh to me it's it's not and. what they what they say now you have to. say officially I think is that the. standards are the same. Doesn't matter. if you're male or female, standards. remain the same. Okay, fine. Um but when. you get to an elite unit like that or. any unit and this might be a failing on.

my part. I fully uh admit that. I mean I. was raised to when a woman enters the. room, you stand up. You open the door. for a lady type of a thing. Like those. things. You stand up for you're you're. you're you're chivalrous. You're a. gentleman type of a thing. Um and now all of a sudden in a. leadership position I'm supposed to. treat a female the exact same way that I. treat a male going into combat. There's. no way I could possibly ever do that. I'm going to be much more concerned. about her than I am him. And once again, that might be a failing on my part. I. fully accept that. But uh I'm glad I. never had to deal with it in real life.

but I see that being something that. comes into play especially if you're. raised to protect as a as a protector, as a sentinel, as a guardian. And now. all of a sudden you're supposed to treat. said female who you've been raised to. protect uh treat them exactly the same. way as a guy going into combat. That's. that would be difficult for me. >> physical realities, I feel, that we just. have to address. When when people want. to talk about equality, I understand that when you're talking. about jobs that don't require shooting. people and stabbing people in. hand-to-hand combat, okay? Because as.

soon as you do that and you are. physically far weaker. and far slower and you're you just. you're just you're not a man. It's a. different thing. I feel the same way. about women like if you wanted to have a. cross-gender combat sports. If you. wanted to. biological men fighting biological. women. I don't care if they're the same. weight. Like don't it's not fair. Yeah. It's not fair. It's not It's not smart. for them to be doing that. Yeah. That.

said, I feel like you should be able to. do what you want to do I know it's. tough. >> Right. >> And I don't want to limit anybody's. choices in this life, but. if you want the best people for the job, I can't see how they're going to be. weaker people. Yeah. It doesn't really. make sense. And if you have a physical. requirement for all the men and that. physical requirement involves a lot of. like heavy physical working out and. labor. I don't know that a woman can. pass that. Yeah. Yeah, for for. >> Like I've seen what you guys had to go.

through to get through buds and like. okay, you have to be strong. Like you. have to there has to be a certain amount. of physical strength that you have to be. able to do that. >> Yeah. Yeah, for me it even comes Yeah, like I said, it comes down to to that. and it's probably my failing, but maybe. not. Maybe we're supposed to be you. know, we're supposed to be protectors. fighters. >> Yeah, we're supposed to be protectors. All throughout human history, that's. been the case. Yeah, and then you're. supposed to all of a sudden change. because of a policy directive. Um but yeah, I mean we're going back to. I mean it's causing a lot of ruffling a. lot of feathers within the military. right now. Uh changing the Department of. Defense to the Department of War, which. is and I'm not saying that they got this.

from me. I'm just saying that they I. have never heard anyone talk about it. until I talked about it back in 2001. And uh I wrote some articles after the. Afghanistan withdrawal and I call and. then went on Fox a bunch of times and. talked about how we needed precision in. language reflects precision in thought. Department of Defense defense has a sort. of connotation to it, a definition to. it. And the Department of War is. different than a Department of Defense, just the language of it. And I said we. it's time to change the Department of. Defense back to the Department of War. and I used the Afghanistan withdrawal as. that example and put that in two.

articles and I think it was one on Town. Hall, I believe. And then but I talked. about it and I never heard anybody. mention that before. So. >> Is that what it used to be? It used to. be the Department of War? >> up to the end of World War II and then. it changed and then it was a official in. uh 1947 with the reorganization of the. military and our intelligence apparatus. Yeah. Uh so 1947 onward became the. Department of Defense. >> Do you take any heat in your books. because one of one of the things that. you talk about. especially in The Terminal List is. horrific government corruption and the.

willingness to put soldiers' lives. as expendable in order to profit. Yeah, I certainly talk about it in here as a. great conversation. One of my favorite. chapters is these two characters, Tom. Reese and his buddy Quinn. So one. special forces guy one SEAL and they're. having this conversation on China Beach. and uh it was great to write those. chapters and do all this research into. China Beach and Da Nang and uh who what. kind of surfboards they were using how. they were shaped like all this stuff. just to bring you back to that uh to. that time frame. But that's what they're. talking about. >> is about James Reese's dad. >> Yeah, 1968 his dad and uh people find.

out where the Tomahawk came from, where. the watch came from, where Honey and the. coffee came from. So all these little. things are kind of woven in there as. well. But exactly what you just talked. about is a conversation in this book in. 1968 and it's the same conversation that. we're having today. Yeah. Um but uh I. wouldn't say I take heat over it and I'm. never going to worry in a chapter or a. book about uh who who am I going to. alienate by writing something. uh or or criminals. >> criminals. Yeah, you got to piss off the criminals. Exactly. Exactly. Or the people in. power. He's being honest about what we.

did. Or or just people in power in general or. or any or or just a part of a readership. maybe. I'm just going to focus on that. story. I have to focus on that story. I'm not doing this I'm not writing this. for a reader. I'm writing this for the. story and that's the way I honor that. reader. So it's all about story. But um. the CIA was has been was very nice. We. got to film the uh the end of Dark Wolf. at CIA headquarters and I hadn't been. back there since I was in the SEAL. teams. So I'm at CIA headquarters. I. have a cameo in there that I live. through at the at the end of the show on. episode seven. I'm the guard that uh. that takes the guys' IDs as he's leaving.

the uh and I have a one line. I think. it's I say I say something anyway. But. uh it was very cool to be there in front. of that memorial wall, that wall of. stars uh especially knowing some of. those guys that are on there that are. memorialized by those stars. Um so the. CIA was very uh kind to let us use that. lobby. Um they didn't ask us to change. anything in the show, didn't put any. restraints or restrictions on anything. Um they just let us use it and that was. very cool. Some guys came down that. didn't need to come down that day, which. was really cool um that wanted to talk. to me about some stuff that I did in. Iraq and it was very very cool to to.

talk to them. Very cool to see the see. it see the museum there. I got a little. tour of the CIA museum, all that stuff. Um so they've been very helpful. The. military not so much. The military does. not let us use uh. any aircraft carriers, submarines, helicopters, anything like that like. they do for some other shows. And I. think that's probably because I blew an. admiral up in his office in the first. episode first uh first series and then. in the book. So I don't think the. military is a big. >> it is, you think? I think it probably is. cuz we're going to use for the first. show we were going to use um Camp. Pendleton and uh the Marines were all on. board and.

uh then their Department of the Navy so. then the Navy found out about it and. quashed it. So we did not get to use. Camp Pendleton. Yeah. So it's uh and. like in Jack Ryan and stuff, I think. they use actual military helicopters and. maybe a amphib ship or something like. that. So they get some support from the. FBI. >> blow anybody up. They didn't exactly. They're not blowing up admirals. They. don't have corrupt admirals getting. blown up in their offices with S vests. So. so I don't think the military is a big. fan. The The rank and file are. Those. guys are awesome at my book signings. It's there's so many military, so much. law enforcement, firefighters, first. responders. Um the audience is full of.

those guys and it's so fantastic. That's. fiction though. That seems so [ __ ] I. know. I know. >> like also that that would be a very good. recruitment tool cuz these guys look. like badasses. People like [ __ ] I want. to be a SEAL. Yeah, I know. [ __ ] badass. And so a lot of guys. would probably join because of that. series and they're like no, you. bad guy. Yeah. >> It's a bad guy though. >> Exactly. It's not justice. Yeah, yeah. Justice. What are you guys going to let.

all the bad guys off the hook? Exactly. Come on. You got a murderous bad guy. that happens to be an admiral. You don't. want to see him get whacked? >> Yeah, yeah. Exactly. It's fiction. >> that would happen at some point. I knew. the people would eventually come through. a line signing line and say I joined the. military because of you or I became a. police officer because of something I. read in your books. And because that's. me. I was I was influenced by popular. culture growing up and that helped me on. my path into the SEAL teams. So I I knew. it would happen. I didn't really. conceptualize it any further than that. But when it happened I was first time,

which was a couple years ago cuz the. first book came out in 2018. So someone. reads that at 16, 17, 18. Now they're a. few years into this career in law. enforcement or in the military and uh. and guys have come up and said that now. and I'm always like oh man, I hope you. made the right choice. I'm like. I hope I just hopefully I was just one. part of a lot of information that you. took in in order to make this decision. Yeah. Um but uh but but they do say it. now and uh like with David Morrell in uh. in Phoenix the other night for the. launch of the book. He has been through. like burn units and stuff saying hi to. people as part of like USO tours and. stuff and people like missing arms and.

legs or totally burned say I joined the. military because of Rambo. And him it's like he's such a nice guy. He's just like Oh. >> it's like devastating. Devastating. I. can't. imagine. >> Yeah. Yeah, so so it's uh but for me it's like. hey, it's it's always going to be about. the story. I knew that would happen, but. it was a surprise the first time. Kind. of like the tattoo was the first. surprise was a surprise the first time I. saw it. Like like the baby the other. night was the first was a surprise. So. it's uh yeah, it's uh it does happen. >> really honor the actual experiences that. these people have in your books. It's.

it's very. believable and realistic and it it it. does honor those people. Thank you. Thank you. That's what I For this one in. particular, that's what I wanted to do. I wanted those guys who were not just. MACV-SOG going over the borders uh and. fighting this in denied areas where they. weren't supposed to be in uh Cambodia, Laos, North Vietnam. But uh anyone who. stood up and went down there to serve, I. wanted to make sure I honored them and. gave my heart and soul to every word uh. and I felt that responsibility as I was. writing this. I wanted those guys to. read it and say ah, he put in the effort.

to get it right. And even people just. lived through the '60s that didn't go. down range, I wanted them to read it and. say ah, he tried to he got close. Even. if he made a mistake here or there, like. he put in the effort to try to capture. the essence of 1968 and and that's so. that's why so much work went into this. But Those guys that went into the. tunnels Oh yeah. like that. >> tunnel rats, yeah. That is some of those. are some of the [ __ ] craziest. stories. >> Yeah. You're going into the tunnels. hand-to-hand Yeah, with a 1911 and a. flashlight and. >> looking for Viet Cong and not knowing.

what you're going to find. >> crazy not knowing who's in there, not. knowing what's waiting for you, what's. booby-trapped. Oh yeah. That's got to be. some of the toughest fighting one can do. in the dark in a tunnel under the ground. essentially by yourself cuz you can't. fit anybody else in there with you. Did. you watch Peaky Blinders? No, I need to. watch it. It's really awesome. But one. of the aspects of these characters is. that the the Peaky Blinders were all. veterans. And they were all in World War. I in trench warfare. Oh wow.

>> And they were in the tunnels. Oh, like. the trenches, yeah. Yeah, and so like. they they came back and they have. flashbacks and there's a lot of like. shell shock Yeah, waking up in the. middle of the night stabbing people, thinking thinking you're there again. It's there's some wild scenes of them in. the trenches. Yeah. And it's just like. Jesus. And we're seeing some more of. that trench stuff in uh in. Ukraine. >> Mhm. I mean wow. But live video though. I mean you're seeing like 4K video off. cell phones and drones and The drone.

stuff is scary. I'm so glad that we. don't have that I didn't have to deal. with that during my time in. >> It's [ __ ] nuts. I was watching a guy who was in the back. of a truck and uh they They running and. the drone is coming at him and he's. firing at the drone and shoots it maybe. three four yards from him. >> I saw that one. You saw that's crazy. >> [ __ ] nuts. [ __ ] nuts. And you. realize like this is what they're. dealing with? >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad I did. >> Exploding drones that are whizzing. towards them and someone on the other. end somewhere in the world has got a.

[ __ ] joystick. And trying to get you with it. Yeah. I. put that in True Believer, second book. and we put it in the show. We filmed it. in the second show of a drone attacking. there. Um but that was a few few years ago. And. just imagine when it gets to the next. stage where it sends a a mosquito in. here, a fly and it's looking at your. face and it's like oh warrant out for. your arrest, boom lands on you over you. go. And that sort of thing. It's. >> Yeah. Yeah, it's a weird time. Yeah. Like like those videos that we just saw. that looked like Muhammad Ali's on the.

show. I mean all that sort of stuff. I. mean it's going to we're getting to that. point where it's going to identify you. somehow, some sort of an identification. through your eyes, through blood, through facial recognition, a. combination of all three and then that. is going to allow you to access whatever. it is, information online, credit cards, all the rest of it of. course. But what it's really doing is. allowing something, whether it's the. government or Big Tech, more control. over you because eventually you're going. to go in and okay make sure this is you. paying for let's say a steak and now all.

of a sudden oh you've had your allotment. of steak because of the environment, because of the how many cows and. whatever they're they're doing. You. can't buy this steak or your allotment. of power for your vehicle you've used. yours up for the for the mother gas in. your car. All of those things but it's. going to know exactly because you're. going to have to do it to access. information online. and we're getting closer and closer to. that. >> Well England just submitted to it. They. just submitted to digital ID. Oh yeah. Yeah, these [ __ ] are pushing. digital ID on these people and once they.

do digital ID they're going to attach to. a social credit score, they're going to. attach it to a carbon footprint score. and then they'll be able to control your. movement and control you entirely and. most importantly they've already. arrested 12,000 people for social media. posts. That's insane. >> Above and beyond every other country, way above Russia. Russia was like 400. last year. The UK's 12,000. They're any criticism. of immigration, any criticism of. grooming gangs and people being raped,

any talk about how horrible this is they. come visit you. It's like someone's. trying to destroy England. It's. literally like they they've got a. concerted effort to destroy England and. they're getting away with it. Yeah. And. what happens over there? >> It's really crazy. It's really crazy to. watch because the mass immigration's not. an accident. It's on it if I was going. to destroy a country I would do it. exactly the way they're doing it. I'd. take away their freedom, take away their. ability to protest, take away their guns. which they did in the 90s and then you.

start tightening that noose. Tighter and tighter, add more. restrictions, more this, more that. I. mean it's we're getting closer. We have. to do it. >> people. When you arrest 12,000 people. for social media posts you don't just. arrest people for social media posts, you change people's ability to to post. about things cuz of fear. So they self. censor. So you don't even you're you're. getting hitting them with like this one. guy who complained about there's a. famous video where this [ __ ] idiot in.

a wig, he's one of them judges in a they. wear the wigs, the white powdered wigs. and he's. sentencing this guy for 20 months for. social media posts. that are normal. Like normal complaints. about mass immigration of illegals from. other countries that aren't assimilating. and that are that they believe are. ruining their society which there's a. real argument for and that's what online. discourse is supposed to be about like. having conversations like I'm voicing my. concern for the way society is running.

right now because of what's happening. and no one's doing anything about it and. no one's protecting anybody. It's nuts, man. Anytime in human history that would. be called an invasion. Yeah. And uh and. now it's It's it's not just an invasion, it's like they're doing it they're. letting people do it. They're enabling. these people doing it and they're. putting them on the dole, too which is. even crazier and you know you're seeing. that in America as well. where they just uncovered a a bunch of. people that were illegals that had get. been given social security numbers and. were already voting and and this is.

nuts, man. It's like it's a it's a. concerted effort and this was one of the. main focuses that a lot of people had in. the 2024 campaign. There was one side. that wanted to stop that and one side. that wanted to pretend that it was a. good thing. And like that you have a open border and. criminals and cartel members are just. flooding through. People from foreign. countries of military fighting age just. flooding through and you're pretending. there's nothing wrong with that. Like. you're setting us up for a real big.

[ __ ] problem. >> Yeah. Have you seen the videos I'm sure. you have have it's Bill Clinton, it's. Hillary Clinton, it's Schumer, it's. Pelosi, it's Biden from the 90s like. giving these speeches on the floor of. Congress that today would would be. extremely right wing. Extremely. Hillary. Clinton in I think it was. 2000. and 12 like whatever it was where she. was running for for president and she's.

more maga than maga. Yeah. Like she is. talking about if you're if you're a. criminal, you know, no ifs, ands or buts. you get kicked out and if you're here. you pay a stiff fine. Yeah. Because you. cut the line. Like yeah. Yeah, like what happened to that? It's. out there but then we're not getting. most people don't know about her. They. don't see it. You have to look for it or. something like those lines. >> lets you realize that these people that. are playing these roles of leaders, they. don't have principled stances on things. They go with wherever their party's.

leaning and wherever the majority of. people believe is the direction to go. And they might not even implement these. things but just to say it in order to. get elected and get people to vote for. them. That's insane. And that's what. they did. It's insane. I don't even like. to call them. >> even believe in gay marriage until 2013. All all polling I guess, right? But it's. also manipulation and it's also. manipulation of the populace through. through the all these all these. different different platforms and and. what did you think also of the. I don't like to call them leaders. I.

like to call them elected. representatives. That's what they're. supposed to be. It's they're supposed to. represent us and they send they get. there and they represent themselves. But. how was the how was the inauguration? I. didn't get to to ask you. Being in the. room with all the lizard people that run. the world is so strange. It's so weird. It was like seeing like Hillary and. seeing Obama and seeing Kamala Harris. and Biden and and Bush and all those. people there. It was very weird. It's. it's really weird, man. It's real weird. It's real weird being in the capital and.

then realize like how strange this whole. process is. I mean there's this like public. humiliation ritual where Trump goes on. stage and talks [ __ ] and they're right. behind him and they have to eat it. And. everybody cheers and and claps and it. was very bizarre. Yeah, very surreal. Very surreal. Surreal also that I'm. right there, too. On the stage like. what's going on? Five rows back from the presidents. Like. so the strangest [ __ ] thing on earth. And it's also strange just that this is. this weird ritual that they do, this.

changing of the control and then you. know the the beginning of the battle for. the next four years where they everybody. is like slinking away to try their. strategy and figure out what to do next. and who's our warrior and now they're. trying to figure it out. Yeah. Now. they're talking about Pete Pete. Buttigieg and Kamala Harris. That's who. they're going to run. All right. Okay. >> Okay. You don't fight against that. Apparently. they they they don't have any faith in. Gavin Newsom. Oh yeah. Which is kind of.

funny cuz he wants to be president so. bad. That's what it that's what it looks. like. >> ruin a city and then go on to ruin a. state and say guys that was just. practice. Once I get it as a president. I'm going to fix it. Fix it all. I mean. it's so crazy but he's such a great. politician. I mean he's so smooth. He's. not no. No, I think he's terrible. How's. he remained in power for so long? Low. competition. There's no one who's good is competing. against him. There's no sincerity. say. he's not a good I should say he's. smooth. He comes across as smooth. >> a good [ __ ] artist. Yeah, that's.

what I mean. But it's like what the. things that he says when he gets. confronted with the you have the highest. this and the highest that. Like. everybody's leaving. You have the. highest unemployment. You have the. highest homelessness. Look what they did. with Hollywood. Money's missing. You. killed Hollywood. Like Hollywood doesn't. exist anymore. It's literally gone. You mandated. vaccines for kids that didn't need them. You guys he did horrible [ __ ]. >> Yeah. It's awful. We I went to one in 2017 so. January 2017 so we decided not to go to. this last one and cuz we felt like we.

experienced it last time and there was. all the the limos on fire and the all. the chain link fences as we were getting. you know going all this stuff so we. decided not to go to this one but then. then Chelsea called and asked if I'd go. to her. her swearing in and so I was like yeah, of course. And so we went to that one. That was really cool. That was really. cool to be in the room with her when she. got sworn in. It was amazing. Yeah. Have. you talked to her about her experience. there? I haven't I didn't want to bother. her too much but we just she just posted. about the book actually. I didn't expect. her to do that but she did that today. which is very very kind. But we do talk.

back and forth. The reality of the the. work, the reality of being in the. organization is very sobering. apparently. I bet. Oh my gosh, it's got. to be like nothing you whatever you. think it is from the outside before you. step in it's got to be a thousand times. worse at least when you step into it. >> it's very compartmentalized. There's a. bunch of people that run various offices. and they're all working against you and. the bureaucracy is so huge and I hope. she stays in it. I mean she's such a. great person. I mean I'd support her as. cuz we're friends but but I mean. it's got to be hard to stay in that. fight when you see it. She's got a lot.

of character and that's not that doesn't. get rewarded there. Yeah. They all I. mean I'd I'd I mean I would support her. if there's a path for her, you know, and. there's there is definitely a path for. her to to get into the to the White. House. Yeah, it could be. She could be our. first female president. Especially. after, you know, we've seen like what. they tried to do to her. They put her on the quiet skies thing. So, they put her on a terrorist watch. list. She was a US congresswoman for. eight [ __ ] years. She served overseas.

in. a medical unit. Right? So, she was. deployed twice in a medical unit in the. middle of the [ __ ] war and you you're. labeling her a terrorist. Like whoever. did that, like whoever signed off on. that should be in [ __ ] jail. Yeah. That's crazy. >> I mean, so much of that stuff. >> such an abuse. >> Yeah. That's such an abuse of power. Yeah. And you want to talk about like. going after your political enemies in a. in a in a sick third-world country way.

That's a great example that. You put a a. congresswoman for eight years in a. terrorist watch for what? Right. >> For what reason? None? No reason? There's not like some crazy tweets where. she's made and there's nothing like. She's so thoughtful. >> like Marjorie Taylor Greene who gets. hog-wild sometimes. She's not like that. >> little aggressive. Yeah, she's a little. aggressive. Like. Tulsi's not like that at all and you put. her on a terrorist watch list. Shame on you. >> Yeah, yeah. [ __ ] shame on you.

>> Now, she's the director of national. intelligence. >> Crazy, right? Boy, it's weird how that. happens. >> Yeah, that's fantastic. But yeah, the. next one it's. I I haven't haven't read the book. But it's Kamala's book where she said. she didn't choose Pete Buttigieg because. of his sexual orientation. Yeah. I'm not. sure about this. People can correct in. the comments, please. But I believe. that's illegal. Like if you didn't hire. someone because they were had a certain. sexual orientation, I believe that's. illegal. >> Well, you're allowed to choose who you. think is going to work the best if you. want someone to work for you.

>> of and you just say something else. Like. they're not qualified. You cannot I. mean, I believe well, someone can tell. us if we're if I'm wrong. We could. probably look it up. But And they think. >> you can. discriminate against someone strictly. because of that. If they're not. qualified, of course, you choose someone. else, fine. But she goes ahead and says. that's the reason that she didn't hire. this guy to be her VP. Wow. I believe. that is illegal. Wow. I never even thought of that. It's insane. Well, she also has been. saying something really crazy. She's. been saying that this is the closest.

race of the 21st century and that it. wasn't a mandate. That's just not true. It's not true. Gore and Bush was much. closer. I think that was a half of a. percent. >> It's yes. I don't know why she keeps. saying this. She's it's just a lie. And. then also she's she's leaving out the. fact that she lost every swing state. Every single one. Yeah. So, like what are you talking about? >> it's crazy. >> popular vote and he won the electoral. college vote. And that's a mandate. Like say that it's.

not a mandate, it's like but it's almost. like if you say it to the the converted. that they're going to listen and repeat. it. Yeah, he barely won. Right. >> Like no, he won. Won every swing state. He won the popular vote. That's called. winning. You win the house and you win. the Senate, that he won. That means he. won. This is crazy talk. It's wild. It is so wild. >> hammered. She's probably up there. drinking wine. [ __ ] kick his ass next. time. [ __ ] him. It's so brutal. And I.

think she also took credit for the no. tax on tips things in the book as well. That's hilarious cuz that was clearly. his. >> Clearly. >> He said it first and she they copied it. It's amazing. >> Did she really say that in the book? >> I haven't read it, but I. I I have heard from someone who did read. it that she did. So, I you know, people. can correct me in the. >> not coming on here in the book, too, which I thought was funny. >> Yeah, that was interesting. Yeah, their. her team was not truthful about that. encounter at all. They never committed. to doing the show, ever. They they said. that, you know, I said that I had a.

personal day, which is not true. I said. I am not available the day that Trump. was here. I said that day's not I didn't. say that I was have a personal day. They. just made that up. That's crazy. >> And then they also said that they sent. someone here to go through the studio. Like sent someone to do a walk-through. Not true. No. Not true. That. How can they I mean, it's just you. repeat it and you say it and your side. believes it. >> why would they do that when I can just. say that's not true? It's so funny. >> who do they going to believe? They're. going to believe me or a person who. literally says whatever the audience.

wants them to say, which is what they. did. Yeah, I'm not Why would I lie? I. have no reason to lie. It's so it would. have been interesting to If I [ __ ] her. over, I would tell the truth. If I was. like, we lied. We told her I was taking. a personal day, but realized I wanted to. get Trump in. Not true. I tried to do. both of them in the same day. That was. my idea. >> have been amazing. My idea was to do. Trump during the day and then her to. come she had a a thing she was doing in. Houston. After the thing with Houston, I. go, I'll [ __ ] do it at midnight. I.

don't care. We'll do it whenever you. want to do it. While you're in Texas, but I I just can't do during the day. because Trump's going to be here. >> But they had to have known. I mean, the. Secret Service was There was 200 guys. here. They they had [ __ ] In Texas? No, in. this [ __ ] studio. There was 200. people here for Trump. I mean, I'm not exaggerating. It was. packed. Wow. >> packed. That's crazy. Bro, they didn't. [ __ ] around. They did not [ __ ] around. They surrounded the building. It was it. was nuts. They had Yeah, they they made. sure that everything was safe and.

secure. Wow. >> So, like someone had to know something. that he was here. Like. it's not a mystery. But I said. >> dog through. But I wasn't trying to be. deceptive. I said, I'll do it later. I. just can't do it during this time. >> That's the excuse they took probably. That's like, okay. They took that excuse. because they never wanted to do the. They wanted to me do like a 45-minute. thing in an. in a different place. They didn't say. scripted, but they they did say that. there were some things that she didn't. want to talk about. Then they denied.

that. >> Yeah. That's what I meant by scripted. Yeah. I said I don't care. I'll talk to. you about cooking. I don't give a [ __ ]. I just want to know who are you? I'll. figure you out. I'll figure you out in a. few hours. Yeah, in three hours you. can't fake your way through a. conversation like that. No, I'll find. you. I'll find you. I'll ask you controversial things. Like. is all I have to do is ask you, why is. the border open? We can talk about that. for three hours. Like what are you. trying to do? Like you could close that. border. Trump closed that border in a. day. Amazing. In a day. Is my You could.

say I hate what's going on with ICE and. I don't like it, either. I don't like. this thing of like taking people. And. here's the thing, well, they should have. done it the right way. Yeah, okay. But. if you're poor and you live in a. third-world country, that's not an. available option. Okay, what isn't. available option is this one. administration over four years is. encouraging people to go through. Not. only they're encouraging you to go. through, there's Red Cross stops along. the way. They give you maps. They tell. you how to do it. People are being. They're funding people getting in.

They're paying for air flights. They're. flying people in. They're moving people. into swing states. They're getting them. on Medicare. They're getting them on. social security. There's We talked to. about this one lady who did an interview. was saying she was being told to try to. get people on permanent disability. So, she was told to ask them, do you have. back problems? And they're like, yes. Okay, great. Personal disability. Now, she said, I I was told to view them as a. client now.

And so, you're trying essentially to. bribe people to now once you get them in. to move to a swing state, then they. count on the census. Once they count on. the census, it adds congressional seats. So, it's like. you're you're rigging elections by. bringing in immigrants and then you're. giving them money. And then all these. people that live in these poor. communities, they're like, hey, where. was all this money for us? Where was all. this money for the people in Chicago? Where was all this money for the people. in Baltimore? No. No, it's they're. they're doing it because they're trying.

to manipulate the election. It didn't. work. You know, it didn't work. Like I. had an argument with someone about it. Like, yeah, it didn't work, though. I. go, yeah, but they tried to do it. It. didn't work, but they did move people to. swing states. They did leave the border. open for four years. They did let in. millions of people. They don't even know. how many. They don't know how many. people got through. >> Yeah. That's crazy. Once they got them. here, they did give them EBT cards. They. did give them cell phones. They did. They moved them into the [ __ ] hotel. that Roosevelt hotel in New York City,

the luxury hotel filled with migrants. They paid for their food. They did do. this. They encouraged people. They did. have sanctuary cities where they weren't. going to arrest them. They let them come. in. Still do Portland right now. It's uh. bananas. It is crazy. >> But what Do you think you could have. that conversation, let's say, 15 years. ago? That kind of a conversation with Kamala. if she was around back then. Let's let's. back up 15 years. Or is talking to all. these amazing people that you've talked. to over the the the time this podcast. has been in existence has given you this.

incredible foundation from which to be. able to ask such incredible questions of. people and get this stuff out of them. and and 15 years ago, I would never. thought that it would have mattered at. all if I had an opinion on anything. It. would be like most comics that are doing. podcasts today where they're just. shooting the [ __ ] to their friends and. no one cares. No one cares. You know, I. want to vote for this guy because I. think we need to try libertarianism and. this is why I think it. And like, ah, who cares? And then interesting. conversation moves on. Not that like so.

many people care what my [ __ ] opinion. is. Like that to me is a sign of the. times. Like if you're coming to a cage. fighting commentator and a dirty. comedian, like this is this is the guy. that you needed an opinion for, that. means the media's failed you. Like what. I am a I'm a symptom of a broken system. Like if I'm a source of information, like we've got a like a bit of a supply. chain problem. I don't know. I think. it's being being a little humble on that. as well because where else can someone. get these three hours where they can.

really listen to maybe two sides of a. conversation. >> didn't somebody else do that already? Why didn't Why didn't mainstream media. figure that out? Why did you need. someone to figure it out in on a laptop. in a [ __ ] spare bedroom of their. house? Like how is that possible the. number one media show in the world. that's birthed out of a laptop in a. spare bedroom? It doesn't make any. sense. Well, they got No, no, no. It. means they failed. >> Yeah. Because there's lots smarter. people than me, a lot better people at.

dissecting what's actually going on in. the world than me. But for whatever. reason, they can't do it. So, how come? Yeah. You know, and like they've like. there's a bunch of people from the New. York Times that tried. They tried. But. they're all bullshitting. Exactly. >> They're never free to give their real. opinion. They're never free to say, "You. know what? Actually, this person that I. disagree with fundamentally has a really. good point about this." Right. >> You know, they have the instead of being. ideologically captured, which is like. most of them. Most of them on the right. and most of them on the left. Instead of.

just being able to look at things and go. that this is the actual reality that. we're living in. That's a failure. That's a failure of media. It's a. failure of journalism. It's a failure. Yeah. And then they say, "Oh, you know, he's not a journalist." You're right. So, how come people are listening? Yeah. Like what is that about? You tell me why. no one else can have these kind of. conversations with people and and and. break it down this way. Well, it's. because you're limited by your whole. your whole system. If you're involved.

Yeah. in mainstream media, you're. limited by the format. The format sucks. You have to break for commercials. You're sponsored by brought to you by. Pfizer. So, you there's certain things. you can't talk about. You've got. handcuffs on. And if you're on the. internet and you're ideologically. aligned with either the left or the. right, well, now you're captured by this. box of predetermined opinions that. you're supposed to subscribe to. Yeah. But you recognize an opportunity. And. people throughout history But I didn't. Well, well, you did something. >> I just kept This I'm telling you, man.

This is not a plan. I know. I know we've. talked about that. But yeah. I just kept. doing it and then all of a sudden it. became what it is. But you recognized. you could plug in a laptop and you could. have a video. You could have a. conversation. >> But it was all just for fun. See, that's. why it worked. It worked because there. was no plan. Yeah. It was just like, "Let's do this and it'll be fun." And. then people tune in cuz it's fun. And. then I start getting like Graham Hancock. on and Anthony Bourdain on. I'm getting. some guests and it's kind of fun and. it's kind of cool. And then it becomes a. cool thing that if you know, you know.

Like, "Oh, you listen to podcast? Right, right, right. Oh, yeah. Yeah, Joe. Rogan's got good guests. He asks good. questions. And then it became what it is. now. But it's Yeah. it's all just. because I enjoyed doing it. It was never. because I recognized like, "Oh, there's. an opening out there.". >> No, no, I didn't mean it like that. I. meant like it's very very natural. That's That's also a part of it. Like. it's not like you're like, "What can I. do?" Like no, that's not that. Where. some people do do that. Like, "Hey, what. can be my thing? Oh, okay. X, Y, and Z. Okay, I'll give it Speaking about events. on this certain thing and okay, that's. my thing now because I realize there's a.

gap. Okay, I'm going to do that. That's. different. That's not moving the needle. probably for anybody in that audience. Maybe for one person or something like. that. And you're not looking at it like. that. You're doing it because it was. this very natural thing for you to do. and it happened to grow into what it is. today, which is amazing. Which makes it. even more powerful that it was natural. and you weren't this artificial guy over. here saying, "What's the opportunity? Oh, I can get make X dollars by speaking. about this topic to this audience. Okay, I'm going to do that and be happy or. whatever." Instead, it was the opposite. of that. It was very natural. And so, it's a very different thing as far as. opportunity goes. Well, that's the.

weirdness about today, right? It's. because you could just start a YouTube. channel. Like anybody who's a doctor or. a historian could just start a YouTube. channel and just start talking. Yeah. Like just think about all the stuff that. you learned about Vietnam from from. writing this book. Yeah. You could just. break down moments like Dan Carlin style. about Vietnam and just sit there and and. talk about it and people be like, "That's fascinating. Jack Carr on. Vietnam. You seen this video?" And then. it'll get passed around. Next thing you. know, it's got a half a million views.

Next thing you know, it's got a million. And then everybody's sharing it in. social media. That's the most. fascinating thing about today. Like if. you say something cool and it becomes a. part of a clip and somebody likes it, it. gets blasted Yeah. >> all over the whole world. It's on. TikTok. It's on X. It's on Instagram. And then it's on YouTube in like a. hundred different channels. Yeah. There's all these channels that pop up. and they take advantage of the. algorithms. Yeah. I can't do that. I can never do.

something for clicks or for anything. like that. I know. I know. Other people. will. I know. You don't have to do it. That's what's interesting. The vast. majority of our clips online have. nothing to do with us. Mhm. I put them. up there. I don't know who the [ __ ]. person is that's editing them and. clipping them together. Some of those. cuts even put their own watermark on it. Like, "Whoever you are, cut the [ __ ]. That's not you know." Like, "Oh, I. edited the [ __ ] mind of a winner like. dot com." Like [ __ ] off. They do that. stuff. They put their own little [ __ ].

website on it. Yeah. But it's just it's. a weird time. It's a weird time for the. distribution of information. And. mainstream media, they dropped the ball. They They missed. these openings. They And they're not. capable of being free. Yeah. There's too. many cooks in the Like all the notes. that you were getting on season one, right? You don't get them anymore cuz. it's successful. Like that's kind of. every show on television has got to deal. with all these goddamn cooks. Yeah. All. these chefs. Yeah. Oh, add a little of.

this and add a little of that. Well, you. can't do it. You can't do it. You can't. do it. No, it's like we're talking about. earlier. Now people are trying to get. that clip. So, their life and their. their their their income is relying on. trying to get that clip. But I think. what they don't realize is that that's a. blip. You know, like like that's a. that's a one thing and then it's back. down back down here. It's not a boom and. then going from there. You have to. continually add value to people's lives. I think long-term if you're going to. build something of substance. And that's. what you you have done obviously. And. it's incredible to watch and you know, be a be a part of from the audience side.

and then to to you know, be your friends. and all that stuff. >> weird [ __ ] I know. But then we see that. stuff like with Charlie Kirk and people. trying to take advantage of that. I know. And it's so it's brutal. And I. don't know what it is what it's going. forward. Like when you think about. communication in general and a long time. ago the telephone used to connect us. with our our grandparents, let's say, states away. Used to connect us. And now. the telephone it disconnects us from. that person who's sitting right here. next to us on the couch, our spouse or. our kids or anything else. So, it used. communication used to connect us. Now a.

communication device which does. obviously a lot more than that is a. tracking device, surveillance device, all these other things. But it's it disconnects us from those. that are we're in the same room with. >> Yeah. And that's a that's a different. deal. And that's why when I look at. long-term when we're talking about. You're always meant to be hopeful about. the future and I love it and I try to. remain hopeful as well. But when you. think about it in those types of terms, like this thing's not going away. And. what's next? Meta glasses. Okay, we got. the meta glasses. They gave me some at. UFC actually. >> Me, too. Have you [ __ ] around with. them yet? No, cuz I left them under my. seat. And as soon as they gave them to. me, I knew I was going to leave them.

under that seat. They handed it to me. when I came in and I'm like, "I'm 100%. leaving this behind." Put it under the. seat. I told Monica. I'm like, "Monica, please remind me to bring these things. with me." And then we just had such a. great time. We totally forgot. At the. Chicago one. Yeah. They gave them to me. as I was leaving. Well, that would have. made more sense. I grabbed them. I'm. like, "Thank you very much." And I have. them. Have you done it? Have you put. them on? >> I put them on when they were here. I. haven't done the new ones. But I I've. I've done several versions. I've tried. them. They're pretty [ __ ] incredible. It's pretty incredible. I'm not wearing. them. Yeah. But we've had to stop people.

from wearing them at the comedy club. They try to film things with meta. glasses on. Oh, no way. Interesting. All glasses have to go in. the pouch just like the phones last. night. Everybody who works there knows. what a meta glass is. Right. But now. they do. But then what happens 5 years. from now when you put them in anything? >> Well, it's going to be contact lenses. And and then it's going to be over. And. then it's going to be in the brain some. sort of implant. >> Yeah, there'll be a there there'll be. some sort of a hard drive that you go. buy. Yeah. Not for me. Yeah. No, not for. me, either. But we're the last. We're. the last of the regular people. Cuz it's.

going to be normal now. Going forward. >> Yeah, it's going to be a cyborg nation. Yeah. Ah. I. I like how you're hopeful. You're. hopeful earlier. Uh. >> am still hopeful. I mean, I hope it works out well. But. it's change is inevitable and our change. is technologically driven and it's an. integration. Yeah. The the the the. integration between this incredible. technology that's available now to. everybody through these AI platforms and. then your phone and then your biology. Like this many people are wearing them.

Apple Watches and they're getting text. messages and emails and making phone. calls on their watch. I know. It's. awful. I I judge someone immediately. when I see an Apple Watch. Unless it's. for health reasons. But I see someone. with an Apple Watch, I immediately. judge. Well, that's the same thing. Using the watch to tell a story about. the person or gear, whatever it might. be. 1911, .45, the new Staccato, that. tells me something about that person, you know, what kind of hat they wear, belt they wear, leather setup, Kydex. setup. Like all those things. Salomon. shoes versus, you know, whatever. Oakley's versus Gators. Like all those. things tell me something about a person. But I immediately judge. I make.

judgments based on very little. information. And that watch tells me. something. And then they get into the. Tesla and I'm like, "Okay. Apple Watch, Tesla, you know." And some of those. things it seem like they just have no. soul. You know what I mean? It's just. like The Apple Watch thing is weird. because it's like, "Do you really need. it all on your wrist?". >> Buzzing all the time? >> And it you have to charge it every day. Isn't that Like I have a Garmin. And it's a digital watch. It's got maps. on it and stuff like that. But I use it. when I go hunting. And I can put that. [ __ ] on full charge. It'll go like a.

month and a half. And it'll charge. partially because of solar. I can That's. I can't I got to nothing else to charge. I They give me something else to charge. I can't But the thing about those What I. like about them is like you could sync. it up to your rangefinder. There's a. bunch of different things you do. You. could have maps on it. Yeah. And if you. had to get out of somewhere and you're. [ __ ] and you're in the woods, you. could pull up the GPS on your watch and. you could figure out where the trail. head is. And you can get out. You could. figure out where the road systems are. and you can get out. And you can just.

say, "Okay, I just have to go due north. for 6 miles and I'm going to hit a. road." Like that's that could save your. life. Like if you're in the middle of. the woods, you don't know what the [ __ ]. is going on and something happens and. you're like, "Okay, we have to get out. of here. We can't go back the way we. came." How do I How do I get to some. form of civilization? I'm a map and. compass guy. I'm a map and compass guy. That's great. Map, compass, yeah, the Waltham compass. I put that in the It's in the book right. here. The Vietnam guys had them on their. on their Seikos. Yeah, yeah. Those are. awesome. So I had one of those near me.

as I was writing the book as well and uh. we put one in the show Dark Wolf. The. guys are on the fire in the first. episode. Jared's there as Boozer and. Pratt's there and Taylor's there and uh. Tom Hopper's there on this fire and that. scene I think is one of the best ones. and Tom gets a gift from from Reese from. from Chris Pratt and he opens it and. it's that uh that wrist compass from. Vietnam. That's really cool. And that. was That scene was really cool to see. see Jared in particular. Um buddy from. the SEAL teams who gives Chris the book. Now he's an actor. He's a executive. producer, a writer, wrote wrote an. episode, and technical advisor. Four. things on that show. That's awesome. He.

gets to act a lot more in this one and. it's so so good. I hope nobody poaches. him away from us. He's so good in this. and at all of those things. So we got to. got to keep close hold with the on. Jared. That's He's fantastic in it. But. uh but that scene in particular I think. a lot of people who were in Iraq and. Afghanistan that spent time around the. fire or any any warriors who spent time. around the fire or hunters that spent. time around a fire will uh identify with. that scene, the sharing of stories uh. between hunters and warriors. And that. was that was a powerful scene to to film. them and we did that early on. That was. the first like week of filming. It was. pretty cool. That's awesome. Most people.

don't know how to use a compass at all. You know? See me, I'd I'd I'd I'd do. well with the compass and the map but. not so good with the Garmin. I'd be. like, "Where's my Have you ever figured. out a way to use your watch as a. compass? >> I know there's a a thing that you can do. but I don't know how to do it. >> have like dials that like like Yeah. So. it looks like a diver dial but it's. north, south, east, west. >> you have to wait on the the shadow or. something. You can do that with a stick. in the ground also the whole whole. thing. There's a whole process to. figuring out. Excuse me, where east, north, west, east. and then.

Yeah. Somehow or another you use your. watch. Yeah, no there's something like. that but uh yeah, map, compass, the uh. the sun across the sky, where it is, time of day, like all that stuff. Well, when the sun rises Rises in the east, sets in the west. But when you're when. you're looking at your watch, there's. some sort of way to figure out where. everything is. I don't get it. Yeah, I think there was. on. what is it? The Wild What was it? Bear. Grylls show? I think he talked about it. in one of those. That's all she goes. Yeah, I went I watched a whole YouTube. video on it. I'm like, "I don't get it. I still don't get it." But there's um.

you know, everybody has a compass on. their phone now, too. I know it and then. that thing dies. I don't know. I. can't plug anything in. But uh did you. get a hunt this year? What time? >> Did you get hunting this year? Yeah, yeah. We went. to Utah. Nice. I think I remember you. were there and we were I was I was in. Morocco, I think. It was a last couple. months I've been totally on the road. Um. which has been been. >> there the week of the 15th. And oh, okay. Right after Okay. It was great. We. caught it right in the rut. Nice. I was. in Morocco. Yeah. But you I was It was. good time. Yeah, we had a good time. Yeah, it was awesome. It was beautiful. I've been out in a while. Been been to. Lanai. Done that just cuz it's an easy,

you know, flight out there. Stay at the. Four Seasons. The family loves it. All. that stuff. Uh no, there's some right I. went with the kids. So for me when I go. out now, it's all about the the kids and. getting them out there with the rifle. Rifle hunting in Lanai is infinitely. more effective. Agreed. Agreed. Bow hunting in Lanai is really. hard and it seems crazy because there's. so many animals. but the success rate is really low. Yeah. Yeah, especially that those winds. and swirling and everything like that. But. if you're on the timeline and you need. to get back to Nobu in time for dinner,

then. use that rifle, you know. Yeah, also. it's the best way to get the meat and. there that's the best meat. Like it. right up there with elk almost. It's. just like slightly less desirable to me. than elk. Yeah, yeah. Axis deer. Axis. deer is really good. It's delicious. And. that's one of the cool things about um. if you stay on Lanai, which is. There's two Four Seasons there and the. Four Seasons that's on the water is. incredible. But they have these um these. axis burger sliders.

>> Oh, yeah. Oh, axis deer sliders are so. good. And the Kapaccio? Have you had the. Kapaccio there? I've had everything. there. It's freaking great. Yeah, it's. great but it's What a weird place where. you can hunt deer during the day and. then stay at the Four Seasons. Not bad. The other one's a Sensei Spa now up top. so they switched it up and so it's this. crazy Yeah, it's this crazy high-end spa. in the old Four Seasons. One that used. to look like a hunting lodge type of a. thing. Uh so that's a Sensei Spa now. But uh. yeah, it's a good time. So that's only. hunting I've been doing the last You're. a part of the Pineapple Brothers, right? Like you're one of the the organization.

that runs the Yeah, me and John out. there. Alec out there who's a Do they. have a lot of people come out there. every year? Yeah, it's pretty pretty. booked. Yeah, pretty booked all year cuz. the family gets to go. It's very unique. Sure. You get to see your family. Yeah, it's also like such a there's First of. all, you have to hunt them. Yeah, yeah. There's 30,000 deer Yeah. on an island. with 3,000 people. Yeah. That is so. crazy. Yeah. And if you see them at. night in particular you like shine a. headlight down to the field, you're. like, "There's no way this is. sustainable." And it's not. So they they.

literally have to hunt them. Yeah. And. hunting's such a big part of the. Hawaiian culture, too. People don't. realize that. They think of the beaches. and everything else. Don't realize how. how big a part of the culture that. really is. But that's where the luau's. all about, right? It's wild pig hunting. They're using They're not using. farm-raised pigs. Yeah. Maybe now they. might be in some places. I don't know. Yeah, I'm sure some resorts are using. that but for the traditional way, it was. like you're hunting pigs. Yeah. And those pigs were brought over. by sailors. That's how they got on that. island in the first place. Well, the. axis came over from India so it's all. coming over from some place. But it's.

nice there's no snakes, too. That's. true. That is nice. And there's nothing. that's an animal that can kill you on. land. That's that's pretty good. Different than Australia. But in the. water Yeah, oh yeah. You want to Hence. why you don't surf. It gets a little. squirrely. It gets a little squirrely. out there with them tiger sharks. Yeah, 100% chance of not getting eaten. by a shark if you don't go in the water. Yeah, [ __ ] all that, dude. Same thing. with skydiving. Like I'm done with the. skydiving. No more Thank you. Please. Yeah, that seems unnecessary at this. point. Stop Tom Cruise. Exactly. Tom. Cruise, we need to cut the [ __ ] You did.

it already. We can do it on a green screen now. Come. on. Enough, buddy. Enough. Yeah. So no, yeah, no more of that sort of sort of. thing. Uh as fun as it as fun as it was. The flying around was always fun but the. jumping, eh. The flying around, great. And then when. you have to go to pull through that. sequence, it's like that's when that's. the moment of truth. And if you know. this doesn't work, then there are. procedures you need to go through in. order to get this secondary. >> Yep. get the backup shoot going. Nightmare. Yeah, no, no. No, no. No, no. I'm good. But I'll go in the water. though. I'll still go in the water with. the sharks but not much of the planes.

But yeah, we were down in Nicaragua last. uh a few months ago. The the kids were. surfing and all that stuff but I'm. thinking about sharks the whole time. You know Adam Greentree? Uh yeah, I. don't know him personally but I know who. he is. Adam um told me that um I'm sorry. if I told this story yesterday, folks, but Adam uh spearfishes. And he said. that the sharks have learned the sound. of the spear gun going off. And so somebody gave him flippers that. had scales on them cuz they thought it. was cool to give him flippers and these. bull sharks showed up after he shot a. fish and they bit his [ __ ] flippers.

off. Stop. Yes. Cuz the flippers had scales on them. Well, don't use those anymore. Yeah, [ __ ] all that. I'm like, "Why did you". He goes, "I was thinking about it might. This isn't good." I'm like, "Yeah, it's. not good. It's not good." He goes, "Then. they bit them off me feet." Yeah. I'm. like, "Oh my god." Have you seen the. lady that swims with the sharks? Have. those popped up on your YouTube? Yeah. I. mean It's like the I mean I hate to say. it but like the grizzly guy, what. happened to the grizzly guy? Well, I. think she knows what she's doing and I. think it's a little different cuz sharks. don't target people. Most of the times.

when they're killing people, it's an. accident cuz they think the people's a. seal. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, maybe, right? I don't know. Exactly. Exactly. I mean there's that. what the SeaWorld one Remember the. SeaWorld. thing? Like took that lady down. Yeah, but that's different. They don't ever do. that in the wild. Orcas in the wild. don't kill people. They only kill people. when people [ __ ] with them. That's all. it is. One of the one of the things. that's been happening lately is they've. been sinking boats. I saw those videos. That's crazy. Yeah, they decide, "Fuck. you." and they start sinking boats. That's amazing and that's something that.

we haven't seen before, right? >> No, it's very new. It's like within this. decade. It's a very recent thing and. it's one particular part of the world. where it seems to be occurring over and. over again. And I don't know what happened. Like. maybe somebody [ __ ] with a killer whale. Like maybe somebody did something. terrible. >> Maybe. And then that that's sonar or. whatever how they talk goes out and. they're like where they're attacking. killer whales cuz like you're talking. about evil and wealthy people and we're. getting into that thing. You know what I. mean? Like and they're attacking yachts. You know what I'm saying? Like. Interesting. >> How many [ __ ] are on a yacht that are.

like, "Let's shoot the killer whale.". and they're firing rifles at killer. whales? Maybe and they're like, "Oh, yeah? How about some of this action?". And then bam. They're boat-ramming orcas Oh, there's a. new theory about why orcas are targeting. sailboats in the Iberian Peninsula. They're using them to practice hunting. their favorite food. I don't like your. theory. I think your theory sucks. I bet. somebody was an [ __ ] I bet someone. killed one of those orcas. Would you go down with the with the.

shark cage off of like Cape Town? No. [ __ ] way. No, I did one thing with my. family once a long time ago. We did. we uh. not scuba dive but snorkeled. We. snorkeled with dolphins. That was pretty. badass. So you find a pod of dolphins. and then you jump overboard. And you can. get, you know, within like 50, 60 yards. of them and they swim around. It's kind. of cool. You see them swimming. underwater and [ __ ] It's pretty badass. That was cool but they they're not. they're not interested in you. They're. like, "Get out of here." But if you're.

on a boat, they are interested in you. It's interesting. Like when maybe it was. just the the circumstance that we had. Maybe sometimes they come and play with. you. But I've been on boats before where. they come right up next to the boat and. they jump and they're they're putting on. a show for you. Like as the boat is. moving its way through the water, they're they're flipping and they're. looking at you. They're like looking at. you and they come out of the water. It's. really clear that they're kind of. playful. Right. >> interacting with people. Right. >> Different than the sharks that come into. the shark cage and just crunch it. You. see the one with the guy I would have. done that a long time ago. I don't know.

if I'd do it now. Oh, the one guy with. the shark right there. >> I mean, come on. This is an outdated. article from. last month about this same group of. Jaws came out again. It was like a 50th. anniversary or something. So, I saw it. in the theater with my son. And uh it. was pretty cool to see in the theater. Okay, here it is. The while some initial. reports suggested that the Iberian orcas. could be carrying out revenge against. the ships, this has been dismissed by. many orca experts. Why? Um the. encounters often involve young orcas. going straight for the rudders. Uh.

scientists have suggested the orcas are. likely just bored teenagers with more. free time since Atlantic bluefin tuna. populations, their favorite prey prey in. the region, recovered, meaning they need. to spend less time hunting. What does it. say? Click on dismissed by many orca. experts. Click on that link. I want to. find out why they think it's dismissed. Like, what's their rationalization? Oh, wow. Open letter to. regarding Iberian orcas and their. interactions with boats. Undersigned are experts in biology.

behavior of cetaceans with several. uh specializing in orcas, also known as. killer whales. There's been intense. public interest in interactions between. orcas. as the uh Iberian orcas and marine. vessels along the coast of the Iberian. Peninsula and in neighboring waters. We. are concerned that factual errors. regarding these interactions are being. repeated in the media along with a. narrative lacking a basis in science or. reality that the animals are. aggressively attacking vessels or.

seeking revenge against mariners. Well, first of all, stop right there. They are. aggressively attacking vessels. I. watched it. >> Yeah. There's a video you can watch. >> like it. These people are on the boat. and it starts slamming in the boat and. sinks the boat. Like, what is that? >> are people are freaking out on that. boat, too. Of course, you would. I think. it's probably people are Oh, the whales. have shown a wide range of behaviors. during the interactions. Many of them. consistent with playful social behavior. Yeah, because they're having a good time. sinking these boats. Like, you know I don't know. People and. their [ __ ] narratives. Uh all I'm. saying is the grizzly guy gets eaten by.

the grizzly, the rattlesnake guy gets. bit by the rattlesnake, the shark person. I mean, I just I worry. It could. certainly happen. Right. >> It certainly could happen. The grizzly. guy, though, I think that was suicide by. bear. >> Oh, yeah. Did you watch that documentary? >> No, I just I've heard about it so many. times I feel like I've seen it. >> It's a fun documentary. It's Werner. Herzog. He's brilliant and he he turns. it into a comedy. It is kind of a. comedy. It's like an unintentional. comedy about a guy who's really [ __ ]. stupid and hangs out with bears way too. long and eventually gets eaten. Man, I.

went up there in Alaska going up the. rivers. uh bear hunting and uh you're walking. right by them. It is insane. Just. looking for the right one and uh it's an. old one. It's crazy how close you you. get and how comfortable the guides are. working their way up these river systems. off of both sand or boat. You go in and. then you work your way up through the. day and come back and um but it was it. was wild to be so close. I'm like, I'm. very nervous cuz you always hear about. don't get between the mom and the cubs. type thing. You're walking right by. them. You're like, okay, you know, here we go. >> And they're so big. >> Yeah. Yeah, the 375 for uh for that one.

Yeah, it's iron sight 375. Iron sights? Yeah, yeah. How come? Uh just cuz it's. going to be close. Oh, jeez. Yeah, fog. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, fog and I don't want. to worry about like the. condensation on the on the scope you're. right down there. >> How close was the shot? It's very wet. out there. >> him we had one. Yeah, very wet. Yeah, everything's just soaking wet and it's. just fog, mist, the whole the whole. thing. So, uh the only one we had we had. a charge and uh I think I might have. told you that. I can't remember. Had a. charge and the thing guy came in. He was.

a little young. She was like at my guide. said it was a a female guide. She's. amazing. She said, he's legal. I'm like, yeah, that's not what you want to hear, you know, you want something that's. really old. And uh you don't want to be. contributing to this, you know, conservation. He's young, you know, I. don't I didn't want to Yeah, legal's not. a word you want to hear when you're. hunting. No, no. And that but it was. curious, also. So, it was young, so it's. curious. So, it kept coming in, kept. coming in and she's yelling at it and. I'm just right there just on the trigger. ready to go. And it's coming and coming. and then it gets close and it stops and. it starts doing that like going back and. forth type thing. And it's pretty close.

I. I had most of it on video and then I. didn't want to be the guy that has the. phone out and gets eaten and uh and so I. like so I put it down so you can so he. gets close and then he I put it down so. you can still hear it cuz it's still. running. So, I still have the the video. you can hear. And uh. he's he goes like this and he starts to. charge and he veers the other way. though. He veers off and she goes she. goes she's yelling at him and then she. says, shoot. And I start to press the. trigger and she goes, no, no, no, no. Like in the same sentence. Like there's. no Oh, cuz he veered off. >> Cuz he veered off. He looked like he was. going to come and it was so close. I was.

like, oh, okay. Ooh. So, uh then we made. our way back out and didn't get couldn't. get one on that trip. But it was. beautiful up there. It was beautiful. I. love it up there. >> It's the last frontier, for real. I'd go. there. I'd go up there. I'd go live up. there. Would you? >> Yeah, yeah. My wife wouldn't, so I think. we'll stay in Park City. But uh but I'd go up there for sure. It's a crazy place. It's Park City on. steroids. It's uh well, without. >> not Park City, but like the Utah. mountains. Yeah. It's. I mean, it is so vast. >> it. I love it up there. >> When you're up there, you the feeling of.

insignificance Yeah. when you realize. like, oh, there's just us. There's no. people anywhere near us. Yeah. For a. long time. For like a few hours in a. plane. Yep. That's what we did. When the. Wrangell Mountains my last trip. I think. it was my last trip up there. And uh Did. you guys see wolves? Yeah. Got a wolf. Got a bear. Got a moose. All in one. trip. It was crazy. >> Wow. Yeah, big ones of everything, too. It. was crazy. Moose is awesome cuz you can. eat that sucker for a whole year. Yep. Got a ton of gave but much of it to the. guides and their families and all that.

stuff cuz there's so much to, you know, to to take back. >> But uh yeah, that was John Druben and uh. and uh Frank LaCrone who are also in. Pineapple Brothers. We went up there. just just us and a guide. Two guides. that know what they're doing up there. Did you guys fly in like in a bush. plane? Bush plane and then to camp one. night and then get on the horses and. then going up into the mountains with. the horses and then make camp there and. then push out from that every day. Wow. It was fantastic. Yeah, it was. beautiful. That was cool. That was. troubling, right? I think. Oh, sure. I. mean, everything's so vast and I love. Alaska. I was trying My plan was to go. to Alaska and Africa like back to what.

every other year and then uh that didn't. happen. Well, it's the only place in this. country at this point where you can hunt. grizzlies. And they really need to do. something about that in some of these. other states where they're talking about. opening it up because like they they are. not scared of people anymore and the. interactions are getting more and more. frequent. Yeah. And they're not doing. anything to curb the populations. Yeah. That's the thing we were talking about a. little bit with Lanai and people that. are not involved in hunting and don't. understand the conservation aspect of. it. You you you can't just have an.

unchecked population of animals. Including predators. >> Yeah. You know, and. they you know, all these [ __ ] people. are voting with their heart instead of. like letting wildlife biologists say, no, no, this is actually bad for the. animals, for the overall population of. them. Yeah. And it's also going to be bad for people. and Yeah, I mean, when animals and. people collide with a lot of mountain. lions in California. Of course. Preposterous. Yeah. And uh. Preposterous. Utah's changed their laws.

Utah is it like they're like coyotes. now? Oh, is that right? I didn't even. know that. Yeah, well, there's too many. interactions. Yeah, I got a big one a. couple years ago. One came. our neighbor's game cam. Huge one came. through, which is good because well fed. Right. And that's the one that gets. skinny and, you know, get get a little. dicey. Huge one came through right. around Thanksgiving with all the. families in town. We're up in the. mountains, right? They're pretty remote. and and everybody's there. The kids are. there. Some kind of like, oh, man. We're. and I'm sure they've seen me a ton of. times and I've never seen never seen. them. They've probably been watching. you. Get my game cams up. Got to get those.

game cams up. It's I have a bunch out. I. just need to figure out how to link them. all up. I need somebody to help me to. like link them all up in the Wi-Fi and. the whole thing. >> Well, they get set up with cell phones. now. >> Yeah, exactly. I can't figure all that. stuff out. That's what's cool. So, you. get text messages every time something. walks through your camera. Yeah. I need. to do that. I put the the 25 different. uh 3D targets up there. The archery. challenge guys came up. So, I have a. course that I can I can walk that I that. I don't usually do, but uh That's great, though. That's great to just have in the. backyard. That's pretty sweet. That's. awesome. But I want to get some game. cams on them to see what the interaction. is cuz the moose come through, the elk. come through, the mule deer come through.

and I want to see those interactions. We. got 200 turkeys, it seems. Probably like. more like 150, but I'm but a lot come. through every day. So, so I do I do love. it up there. And uh and you know if. someone's up there that. you know if they shouldn't be there. Right. >> And it was crazy. This uh so, right. after Charlie Kirk, remember the only. thing we had was that this guy was in. black, right? Right. >> So, everyone's on I'm on edge. I'm like. devastated by this thing. I'm like. really feeling it. I met him once. Uh. didn't know him, but I we're mutual. friends who are who are very close to. him. So, um. so anyway, I I was devastated by this.

thing and the kids saw it. Saw me. devastated by that. It's just all you. know, it's awful all the way around. And. there's a knock at our door and I'm. like, and this is like this is like the next. day. And I'm like, no one's supposed to be. here. Our gate was busted. So, we're. getting a whole new security system, but. the gate was busted then. And uh and. it's been fixed now. So, I'm like, who. is this? And I look I can look out from. a place where no one can see me. And. it's this guy in all black. Oh. I knew. it wasn't in my mind I knew this isn't. the person, but you're hearing that's. the only description. This guy is head.

to toe black up in the mountains where. I've never seen him before. Like you. have to work to get up to us. And but. his car was semi nice parked outside. I'm like, what is this? I feel like an. Audi or something. I'm like, this is. weird. And uh but he's overweight. He. didn't clearly didn't fit the. description. >> Right. Uh but all black. So, I'm like on. edge already. And uh so, I grabbed the. pistol and uh go down to the door. And. his back's to the door. So, you can't. see his face. So, I'm like, what? So, I. have the pistol behind my back, little. 226 behind my back. Uh cuz I can do some. work with that thing. And uh I'm like, yeah?

And he's like, oh, we're doing some work. around the corner with uh some some. cement. Do you need any any work with. cement around here? I'm like, no. Like, you should have been really nice. to people. But I was I was like, and he's like, okay. Walks away. You can't just walk up people around. here like that without an appointment. Well, clearly the gate is meant to keep. people out. >> Right. >> And you come up all dressed in black the. day after this thing happens and you. randomly knock on a door. >> turn your back to the door. >> have your back to the door. That's so. weird. >> Bizarre.

Do you know who the guy is? No, I was. just like I mean he's he's doing some. work on one of the other places. >> to know if you need cement? >> Needed any cement. Isn't that odd? But in my mind I'm like, well I was just. chasing for something. >> maybe he was like a stalker fan. that found where you are and that was. his excuse. I didn't think about that. I. was more thinking about just the the. description of the Charlie Kirk person. >> That's what I would think immediately. I'd be like, oh you have cement? Yeah, like. >> Yeah, why do you have extra cement, dude? >> Bizarre. You're knocking on people's. doors asking if they need cement, really? >> it was really somebody hustling like.

trying to do some work, handyman type. stuff, whatever, but that was that was. crazy. One other person came up to the. house when they shouldn't have and that. was like that was very strange. And anyway, there's a. >> If you're in the mountains and someone. visits you Especially in the middle of. the night. Like that was really in the. day, but this other one was in the. middle of the night. The middle of the. night. Like how late? >> Like like midnight. Oh Jesus. >> Yeah. And so that one I put the AR by. the door. Had the had the pistol and and. went over there looking. It ends up they. were looking for another house up there. But it was very bizarre. Yeah, that's.

late. >> Late in a storm. Oh boy. >> Coming down. Yeah, coming down. So. you're like, was this one of those. things where you open the door and the. other guys rush in? Type of thing. It. was a lady Or stumbling down through the. snow with what I thought was a headlamp. Ended up being her her phone. >> a video like that online where this lady. knocked on the door and a bunch of dudes. came in. >> Exactly. Yeah. Exactly. So. anyway, yeah, so. working on the security system. Yeah. Get some. but it's it's if you come knocking on. the door, it's you shouldn't be there.

You'll need to have a little more common. sense. Yeah. You're going to get you know And. terrible though that you have to think. like that. Like someone could just have. a car broken down and I know. >> just need help. >> I know. You have to be on edge. completely. >> Yeah. Yeah. And if that was the case, of. course I go up but then you're still. thinking like, oh they're just going to. get me out of the house. Exactly. Yeah. Maybe someone's waiting to get you out. of the house. Yeah. So it's got to be smart. Maybe call. Hey, why don't you call the authorities. up here and we'll just wait, you know. Let's wait right here till they get here. and they can help you with your car or. whatever it was, but.

yeah, so. trying to get a little better with the. security type things. Yeah, there's something about the woods. in the mountains alone. when you're by yourself that you worry. about people coming to visit you anyway. You worry about people just showing up. >> Right. It's not natural. It's not. normal. No, and if you're a person that. just shows up you have to recognize. that. That that's a very vulnerable. position. >> Right. By yourself in a house in the. woods or with your family in a house in. the woods and you just show up while. it's snowing. >> Yeah. This is the beginning of a movie.

>> Right. >> horrible movie. Exactly. >> Yeah. So and when we lived in town. people did come by and kind of expect. it. You live in town, there's no real. security, whatever, you know, it's kind. of like more expected. But when you're. way up there. >> Uh-huh. When you're way up there and. especially on the the guy dressed weird. >> was weird. Like when it gets darker, like when you're rather in in the woods. and it gets darker and then people show. up. Those people immediately seem like. danger. Suspect. Yeah. >> Mhm. Well especially in the woods. Yeah. I mean that's the old instinct that kept. us alive for so long. Like I need to be. on edge here.

>> Exactly. >> That kind of thing. Until you know just. >> tribe member. Exactly. Until you. absolutely know you're going to err on. the side of caution and protecting your. life and the lives of your loved ones. Listen, brother. Yeah, man. I'm very. excited about this book. I want to give. it to it. Is the audio available right. now? >> Audio available Ray Porter. That's out. right now and yeah, audio, ebook, hard. cover. >> how you went back to James Reece's dad, too. >> Ah, there it is. Yeah, yeah. >> Yeah, and we're pitching this to Amazon. here I think in the next month or so as.

a series. So you never know if it's. going to happen or not, but. that'd be a cool one. I think people are. ready for a. another Vietnam style TV show or movie. It's been a while. It's been a while. since we've had a good one. At the very. least book. Yeah, yeah. I'm excited. >> Yeah. And this one was essentially it's. a espionage thriller set in in Saigon, but set in in Southeast Asia. more specifically. And no one's really. done that since quite American Graham. Greene, Tears of Autumn and Graham. Greene was 1955 and Tears of Autumn was.

1974 and and John le Carré was The. Honourable Schoolboy in 1977. So it's. been a it's been a while. Yeah. Cry. Havoc. Available right now. Congratulations on everything, brother. I'm very very happy for you. This is awesome to see you killing them. out there. That's cool, brother. Appreciate everything. My pleasure. Bye. everybody. Take care. [Applause]. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music].