Joe Rogan Experience #2378 - Charlie Sheen

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. >> The Joe Rogan Experience. >> Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by. night. All day. >> Great to finally meet you, man. >> It's great to meet you. >> It's a trip and and you know, walking in. and I'm thinking, is there how is it. possible that our paths didn't cross all. those years? I mean, it's it's it's. conceivable we were in the same venue or. the same building or at the same party.

or at least something. >> I kind of avoided parties. I I avoid basically everything. >> I avoided parties. I avoided uh. premieres. Anything where there's a red carpet. Like even if I was in a movie, I. wouldn't go on the red carpet going. through the back door. >> Seriously? >> Yeah. I don't like it. I don't like all. the that [ __ ] look over here, look. over here. That is just. >> Yeah. >> too fake for me. It just whatever. allergy I have to that flares and I'm.

like I'm going in through the back door. [ __ ] this. >> Yeah. No, I don't I don't blame you. I. don't blame you. They they stopped um. showing me where the back door was. because I I I support a similar uh. entrance. thing. Um. >> it's just too weird. >> But it's that it's look over here, look. over here. It's that thing something. happens in that moment. >> and I think it's like it's it it brings. you as close to possibly sterilization. >> as you can get without you know surgery.

>> I think it's bad for you. >> Yeah. >> I think it's legit. I think it's like. radiation. >> Yeah. >> Like you could take a little bit of it. but you know you don't want to be. working the X-ray machine your whole. life. >> No. No. And then there's always that one. lady who keeps calling you back to her. >> Charlie. >> Right. Right. Right. Far left. Far left. Far left. and you've looked at her like. seven times already and then I'm I'm out. there thinking if it took me this many. takes to get a scene right, >> nobody would ever hire me. >> You wouldn't get past the first the.

first day. >> Well, they want to get a million. pictures just to get that perfect one. with a little bit of side eye to you. Just a little something, >> right? >> Little purse of the lips. Little. something. >> The one that kind of like responding to. something. Yeah. But then they chew. Which one do they always choose? The one. that's absolute dog [ __ ]. >> Yeah. The one with your mouth open. >> Exactly. >> Or your eyes closed. >> I I What I really don't like is the. people who like it. >> Not that I don't like them. Is that I. don't want to ever see that in myself. >> And so when I would be around them, I.

would just go, I got to get out of here. >> Right. Freak me out. The trappings. >> The trappings. Yeah. >> Yeah. Um I mean is there because it. feels like um that system's been in. place for over a hundred years, right? Is there another is there another way to. do it? >> Probably not. No, >> people like it. >> You know, photographers like it. The. press likes it. It's a big thing. There's a lot of people there's a lot of. lights flashing. It seems legit. >> Right. Right. Right. >> Yeah.

>> I just um I don't I can never um feel. relaxed when everybody's yelling. >> Right. >> You know, it's totally unnatural. It's. completely unnatural. >> The only way that would be happening in. real life is if like you were on trial, you know, like you were being paraded in. front of a bunch of people. It's him. There he is. Look over here. >> You know, it's odd. It's very odd. >> Yeah. It's almost It's a form of a perw. walk, isn't it? >> A little bit of a perw walk and just a a. little bit of uh um a mental illness.

exhibition, >> right? >> You know. >> Yeah. I just had it for the first time. um like last it would have been last. Thursday. >> The first time ever? >> No, for the first time in like in like. maybe over a decade uh at the Netflix. premiere for the dog. Yeah. >> And it was um. >> it was kind of cool. Like the first, you. know, 34 seconds I was like, "Okay, I. remember this." And then it was like, "Yeah, I I [ __ ] remember this. Wow. Damn." And then I like I'm I'm in the.

right. the sun just beating right on my. on my floor and it's just I could feel. myself start to sweat. Now I'm. questioning the whole outfit, >> you know, the underwear choice, all of. it. It's just like every decision I made. leading up to that was completely wrong. >> Yeah. >> And and it's all being documented, you. know. >> Oh, it's so odd. >> Yeah. What's really funny at the when I. when you first walked into the studio, you brought up a tweet that I had sent. in 2011 and I think this is when you.

were going crazy. >> Yeah. >> And uh I think this was also when my. friend Russell Peters was doing those. tours with you. >> Oh, that's right. >> It says, "I need to get Charlie Sheen on. my podcast. I know it's a long shot, but. a boy can dream if anybody knows him. Help me hook it up." Well, here we are. 14 years later. >> You know, it tanks when it tanks, right? Yeah, it's funny cuz back then I don't. think I had no guests. I think I had. Anthony Bourdain was the only like real. guest that I had had by the time. Yeah, he was 2011 as well. >> And and how many shows had you done by.

then? >> Not that many by then. I don't know. >> So, were you just doing solo shows just. like covering topics? >> I would do it mostly with my friends, mostly with other comics. >> We just sit and talk [ __ ] and then. eventually. >> your house or. >> Yeah, I was at my house back then. >> Okay. >> So, it looked nothing like this. >> No, no, no. It slowly had to get out of. it. It's like I had too many weirdos. that I had to bring by my house and I. have young kids at the time. They were. really young. I was like, "This is just. too strange. Bring these weirdos by my. house." And. >> you know, >> it was just too odd. I was like, "Maybe.

some people should know exactly where I. sleep.". >> Right. Right. Yeah. >> And it's interesting cuz driving here um. I was buried in my phone just, you know, for for the right reasons. Um so I have. no idea where we are. Good. So, it was. kind of like a the version of being. blindfolded with a with a sack over my. head, you know? >> Yeah, that's probably how we should do. it. >> Can you imagine? Then like I'm the guy. they're blaming for introducing this. >> Just put everybody in a blindfold and. put them in the back of an SUV and drive.

to an undisclosed location. >> and and make the guy drive a few circles. around in like some, you know, neighborhood right over there. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um but we did it. We're. here. that those things that you did. with Russell Peters were so fascinating. It was the whole thing was so. fascinating. I watched the Netflix. thing. I watched the first episode and. the the the whole experience of watching. the guy from Platoon, the guy that. everybody knows is like this gigantic. super cool movie star, hot shots, all.

these different things. to watch you. just. not just. go off the rails with drugs, but like be. super open about it. You like the first. guy super open about it, you know, and. everybody just embraced it instead of it. being like, "Oh, Charlie Sheen's doing. drugs. That's so sad." It was like, "We. love him. >> Keep going.". >> It was kind of crazy. All the Tiger. Blood stuff and winning. Everybody was. saying winning all the time and it it.

>> What was that like for you? Was that. like. was it the worst kind of reinforcement. or was or did it let you like were you. surprised by it? >> That's a great way to describe it. It. was It is Yeah, I the worst kind of. reinforcement. Yeah, it was like uh. unintentionally or otherwise celebrating. the the a guy's demise, >> right? you know, and and and I guess the. the the train wreck was so spectacular.

that or was such a spectacle that they. couldn't turn away, but they were also. being invited in to to follow it down. the tracks. >> Yeah. >> You know, and and somebody asked me. about it and and and I you know, I don't. know if I was the conductor, if I was. riding the caboose or both. simultaneously. Um, it was a trip. because thinking back on it, it's, you. know, some of it just kind of exists in. in just Polaroid snapshots that kind of. drift past through the mist, you know, other other moments are in high def,

>> but kind of seen through a tunnel vision. >> like, and it and and it's it was there. was an energy or it was there was an. energy I tapped into that felt like I. was playing a role, but I couldn't. figure out if you know what the what the. plot was, who my co-stars were, where's. somebody, you know, somebody show up. with like a page one rewrite, right? >> That's what we [ __ ] need, you know? Um, and it and it got away from me and.

and had it not been encouraged, I think. it could have been curtailed. It could. have been shut down a lot sooner, you. know? >> Right. You become kind of capture to the. image. >> Yes. >> Yeah. And there was something that and. just recently something I stumbled on to. um it's um I was I was in in some way um. I was being a bully. It had a bullying kind of energy about. it, you know, and I've never been that.

guy. >> How so? How so? Like. >> the way I was attacking people and the. way I was challenging people, I was like. a tough guy on the block and had all. these soldiers. I had this whole cadre. behind me and it was like, you know, inviting people into the ring. I've. never been in the ring. what are we. doing? You know, >> you're on coke. >> total cocaine behavior. >> among other things. Um yeah, and and I. think um there was a whole testosterone. component as well. >> that was um out of just out of control.

because there you know what do they. recommend like a quarter size dollop and. like every other day and no I I there's. a line in the book where I say I was I. was slathering that that [ __ ] on like a. [ __ ] Ponds commercial. Oh, so you. using the cream? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Which is hard to measure. >> It's not just hard to measure. It gets. on other people. >> Oh, >> I read this story about this guy who is. on TRT cream and his child started like. showing signs of premature development.

Oh. >> And they realized that this kid's. testosterone level was through the roof. because it's through the dermis, right? It's through the skin. So, he's getting. in on his arms and then he's hugging his. child and the kid is getting juiced. >> Like, what were the kid's numbers? Do we. know? >> We don't know. >> Like in the. >> I don't think they released that, but. they they said that it probably. permanently affected the kid's. development. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Because this kid is like experiencing. puberty at three. You know, you're. getting bombarded with testosterone.

Sure. >> While your dad is holding you. >> Insane. >> Insane. Is that part of the reason they. recommend like an inner thigh. application? >> I guess then the only person would get. it is the person you're having sex with. >> Exactly. >> Yeah. >> Exactly. Or or your horse, >> right? >> Yeah. >> Might be good for the horse, >> right? >> So, there was testosterone and cocaine. together at the same time. That's That. sounds like a combination of hubris. >> and a lot of rage. >> And a lot of rage. >> A lot of rage. But the rage, I think, um, it's it's interesting because when.

you finally get some distance from. something, you start to realize that. that it wasn't really so much about what. you said it was about in the moment. >> And I and I'm, you know, really. realizing it was wasn't about the job, wasn't about chalk. It was it was about. all the stuff in my personal life, you. know, it was about trying to just be be. a certain guy at work, be a certain guy. at home, and then just never having the. time to be a certain guy with me. And I. just I just couldn't I couldn't find any. place to to f find any refuge or solace.

or any type of just a moment to breathe. to just to. >> decompress, you know? >> That's so important. >> Yeah. And I there was a it's not in the. book because I can't really I don't. remember it well enough to put it in the. book. And that was kind of how I decided. what's in there and what's not. Right. Um or or if something just isn't true, it's not in the book. And so, um, but it. it, um, you know, I was I was I was. trying to just kind of,

you know, like, you know, I I I I went. through two divorces and and had four. children during dur during that run of. eight years, you know, and so, um, >> that's crazy. >> It's insane. Yeah. And and they both, you know, they they fell apart for for. for myriad reasons and whatever. and and. but that did there there wasn't time to. heal the last one before the next one. >> right. >> kicked off and but that's all on me you.

know what I'm saying that's all on me. making those decisions that's one of the. through lines in the book is that it. like really comes down to really being. all about choices you know um but then. um. yeah and and and and. it just. to for for it to He just talking about. the bullying stuff, you know, for it to. be so so directed at a guy who let's. like if you really break it down, what. did he really do to me? He created this.

environment with the dream character in. a in a in a in an amazing show. So. people tell me, right? Um that that that. was, you know, the toast of the town, right? and and all he asked from me was. to just like, you know, just show up, be. responsible, know your lines, hit your. marks, do your [ __ ] job. You know, that th those were the only demands. essentially the stuff I told him before. I took the job that I was going to do.

So, and then I turn it into that. You. know, it it's really difficult to really. look back on that and figure out why it. got that far, how it got that far. >> I can help you out. >> Okay. >> Testosterone and cocaine. >> Testosterone and cocaine. Yeah. >> It'll have you having all kinds of. conversations with people in your head. that'll tell you exactly what's what. you're doing is correct. >> Right. Sorry. >> Did you ever talk to Chuck? Did you ever. like Sorry.

>> Yeah. No, it was Yeah. No, that was I. was really grateful we were able to do. that. Oh, that's nice. Yeah. I was. carrying that around for too long, you. know? Yeah. >> He hired me for a show he had a few. years ago called Bookie. >> with Sebastian Maniscalo. Right. >> Oh, yeah. That's right. >> Yeah. So, I came in and did I played. myself, did a few scenes, did a cameo, you know, did some fun stuff and just. back on a set with Chuck and and it was. like it was. >> it just felt like it like it like it. like it did in the in the early part. >> Oh, that's Well, good on him for not. holding a grudge, too. Yeah,

>> that's that's awesome. >> Sorry, I lost that thought earlier. I. was like, where the hell was I going? Well, it's a it's a complicated thing to. think about like why did I go off the. rails? You know, it's like and it's very. reasonable. Here's the thing. I don't think anybody but Charlie Sheen. knows what it's like to be Charlie. Sheen. And in my estimation, there are a. scant few people that have become. massive superstars at a young age. >> and came through it sane.

I don't know anybody. Everybody, we mean. I know people that have regained. equilibrium and got their footing back. and now they're on the right track and. >> but no one gets through without a. hiccup. It's everyone kind of goes crazy. because you're living in this completely. alien world that no one can help you. navigate. >> Even if you've watched the the people. closest to you go go through it your. most of your life and like just like. right over there.

>> Yes. like in the in the next room, >> right? >> You know, or in the same room, >> right? And a bunch of your friends. Yes. >> It doesn't matter. It's still bananas. It's still an alien world that you live. in that no one that you run into during. the day except the people like that can. understand, right? >> Which is like people are always like, "Why do celebrities just hang out with. each other?" Well, because to them, they're the only people that are normal. >> Yeah. >> They're the only people that like I get. it. I can't go to the supermarket. either. I get it. I you know I get. [ __ ] TMZed at the airport as well.

It's like it's normal. >> for them cuz everybody else is like, "Wow, it's Charlie Sheen." And they're. just captivated. Like you kind of need. to be around people that understand what. that life is like. But the problem is. they're all going crazy, too, >> right? Yeah. Yeah. It's not um I mean. it's it's a it's a it's a great support. group um to a degree. You know what I'm. saying? I think you can rely on them for. the things that you have in common, right? >> But maybe take the more complicated [ __ ].

just. >> just right across the street, you know, to Yeah. to the experts. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. You can't rely on them for. everything. >> No. >> Because they're going through it, too. >> Can I just get a tissue? Do you want. >> Yeah, sure. Sure. Sure. >> Jamie, you got a box? >> Thank you. >> Sorry, I'm just. >> No worries. Getting sweaty. Is it hot in. here? Turn the AC on. >> No, I'll tell you exactly what happened. I got I lost that thought and then I. tried to cover and I realized this is.

he's not buying this and then I started. sweating and I started [ __ ] sweating. So, I'm just going to. >> It's normal, man. Just say you lost your. thought. It's all good. >> Yeah, >> it happens all the time. It happens to. me, too. >> Why is that though? Is our brain already. trying to figure out the next thing. that's going to attach to it? And by. doing so, it took that the main thing. and just dismissed it. >> perhaps. >> Okay. It's also brains are just not that. good. >> Huh? >> You know, they're they're pretty good. compared to chimp pansies and dogs and. stuff like that, but you know, they have.

a lot of issues. Okay. >> Just like we were talking about your. memories. Like my me my memories of my. whole life are like a series of blurry. snapshots that I can go, "Oh, yeah. Then. we went there. Oh, yeah. That happened.". Oh, yeah. There's very few memories that. I have that are like rock solid. memories, >> right? Yeah. I totally get that. And. there's a little thing in the book where. I talk about memories are tricky. >> And is it the is it a story someone told. me? Is it is it is it me in that moment. or is it a is it a you know a creased.

photo I saw on an old album in the 70s. or 80s? >> Is it was the memory given to me or or. did I did I create it? >> Right. Yeah. And there's also the the. real possibility that you have false. memories. And people do that all the. time. And they they've even shown that. they can introduce memories into. people's minds and and then with enough. sort of uh encouragement or revisiting. it, that person will accept it as a a.

pure memory and. >> that it actually happened to them. >> Yeah. And they'll they'll talk about it. like outside of that and they'll have no. knowledge that it was a false memory. >> Wow. >> Yeah. Because it's just not a good. system. It's a system designed to keep. you away from scary things. Like there's. the wolf. Oh, get away from the wolf. You know, wolves are bad. I remember. I. remember wolves are bad. That's the. spider that's poison. Get away from that. spider. That's spider that's poison. But. like dayto day every day normal [ __ ]. It's like how much of a memory does it. really need to keep? It's just your.

brain's just not that good. And then and. then even and and then so do certain do. um certain memories then get overlaid. with um a a a newer version of that. Okay. >> Yeah. They get narrative. >> They get narrative. >> Then you and you start repeating the. memory and your memory becomes of you. repeating the memory. >> Wow. >> So it's like you don't even really have. the memory anymore. You have you know. how to say it. >> Okay. Didn't that happen with um with. the that one Kazinski witness? Did it.

with a uni bomber witness? >> Yes. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. Because that's why the first uh. composite that was put out really uh. ultimately wound up looking nothing like. the actual guy. >> Oh, interesting. >> Yeah, there was a thing that Yeah, there. was a thing where her memory was. corrupted by a different description. from somebody else. This episode is. brought to you by Paleo Valley. It is. not easy finding a snack that's healthy.

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probably super freaked out, which is. when your memor is the worst. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. That's why eyewitness accounts of. like murders and chaos, they're really. bad, right? >> They're really bad. Very unreliable. There's some really really awful. percentage about what even when they. wind up in a in a courtroom. Yeah. >> Like the like the determining. >> like the final nail. >> from the person that guy that it's like. sometimes it's as high as like 60%. >> That they're just wrong.

>> Yeah. And then they'll convince. themselves that they're right because. they've already said it. So then the ego. gets involved and then you know it's. just traumatic events leave you you're. in a high state of anxiety and you're. not thinking clearly. You're freaked out. and you you don't like when when they. have events like like say like 9/11. Um, if you were anywhere near that and. you saw like people jump off the. buildings and and fall to their deaths. or like your memories of that are.

probably really clear cuz it was [ __ ]. crazy. >> Right. Right. Right. >> But your memories of people that you. might have saw that were running away or. maybe you saw a guy in a van and he. looked fishy or maybe this or maybe. that. It's like and then a few days go. by and you you probably haven't slept. well. You're all freaked out. your. memory is probably a mess. It's probably. filled with the news now and then. there's other people's eyewitness. accounts and and you know you don't know. what the [ __ ] happened, >> right? >> You you you know like you see someone.

die, see someone jump off a building, you're going to remember that. But. there's some stuff that is just our, you. know, this is one of the scariest things. about transhumanism is that it's really. appealing in the idea that if they give. you a little hard drive in your brain. and now from now on, every time you want. a memory, you can go just like, you. know, you look on your phone, like your. iPhone on this day in 2017, you're like, "Oh, look at us. Look, that's cool.". You're going to be able to do that in. your brain, you know, and the way that. we're going to buy into it is because.

our memory sucks because. >> that's how they're going to sell it to. us. >> Yeah. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. I mean, do you remember your phone. number when you were a kid? >> Um, no, but I remember my address. because it rhymed. >> That's nice. >> Yeah. It was 7212 Birdview Avenue, Malibu. >> You used to remember your phone number. What happened? It goes away cuz your. memory sucks, >> right? I I I I know my parents' number. because they still have a landline. Oh, they're still rocking the landlord. >> Yeah, they are. Yeah. And they have an. answering machine. >> Whoa. >> Yeah. But during dinner, they haven't.

really. >> turned it. >> Oh. And then people start talking in the. background. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. But it's just part of it. It's. part of. >> part of the experience. >> They're rocking a landline with an. answer machine in 2025. That is. >> Yeah. >> It's probably the way to do it. I used. to love the answer machine. When you. come home, the light would be flashing. like someone likes me. Somebody called. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. It was cool. It was like you had a. dog coming home to wait like to visit. you when you came home. Like, oh, look. >> It's like induced Bigalow when it's like.

he's at his lowest point. The thing in. the light is never blinking. >> I forgot about that. >> You have no no new messages. >> Yeah, that was a wild time where you. could get phone calls. That's the other. thing is like you got famous before the. internet, too, which is a different. world. It's a different world because. there's not that many of you. There's. way less famous people. There's way more. famous people now. >> Yeah. >> You got famous, like super duper famous. at 21 years old with no internet. >> Trip out. Yeah, I know.

>> How does anybody expect you to come out. normal? >> Jesus Christ. >> And And it's And you try You can't. really even explain to someone that that. that wasn't around during all that. You. can't really explain what it felt like. cuz they they look at it as the things. that were missing and and there there. wasn't anything missing, >> right? >> You know, it was about having to really. be engaged in everything you were doing. You know, you had to show up to to to to.

you know to gain to to get a like. You. had to enter the building, right? >> You know, you had to go to on a talk. show. You had to attend a junket. You. you know what I'm saying? And you could. and nobody knew. >> nobody knew what the behind the scenes. of your movie looked like until you know. years later on the DVD feature or or the. VHS feature. >> that they finally saw some of that. stuff. You know, it wasn't it wasn't all. all access 24/7.

365. Yeah. >> And for some people, they can't leave it. alone. They they have to live stream. during the day. They're live streaming. from their trailer. They're live. streaming on in their car on the way. home. They're like, >> "Yeah, what is that about?". >> They're nuts. They're just locked into. this weird new world that we're living. in. >> But is it I mean, is it because there's. genuinely people that are tuning in with. enthusiasm that are looking forward to. that live stream in the car ride home or. because the person or or is it a. combination?

>> I think it's those things and it's also. that thing that you said that you didn't. ever get. They're scared of. You didn't. ever get alone time. just just time to. decompress and think, just be by. yourself, >> no phone, no TV, just [ __ ] sit on the. couch and just like catch catch your. breath, >> right? >> And they don't want that. That's They're. scared of that. So, they're just. constantly engaged with something. >> I like entire days of that. >> Oo, that's nice. >> Alone on the couch. >> Yeah. >> Watching TV. >> That's nice. It's nice to just shut off,

right? It really is. It's uh all work, no play. Not good. >> Not good at all. >> Not good. Bad for you. And it bad for. your work too because it makes you just. kind of it gets dreary. You don't you. don't have the same enthusiasm for it. anymore. >> You know, it's like you need discipline, but you also need enthusiasm. >> You know what I was going to say. earlier? Thanks. Okay. All right. The. memory just, you know, dropped another. uh token in the in the in the slot. Um.

is that uh now no now it's, you know, it. doesn't even connect. It doesn't. >> Um, >> let's find out. >> Well, no. Then I I actually forgot it. again. How about that? Is that [ __ ]. nuts? >> It's normal. It's normal. When you um when you first got Platoon, did you have any idea like what the [ __ ]. was going to happen? >> I didn't. I didn't. >> Was that for for people today to to. understand how big that movie was? Cuz. it was it was one of the very first.

realistic war movies. And I think very. importantly, it was done by Oliver. Stone, who was actually a veteran of the. Vietnam War. >> You remembering what you wrote down, what you uh just that that piece. Yeah. I'm not I'm not I'm not going to forget. it again. >> Okay. Pardon. Sorry. >> But that it was it was a different kind. of war movie, you know. >> Yeah. It um. >> much in the lines of your dad's movie. >> Yeah. >> You know, and that that was a very. different kind of war movie as well.

>> Yeah. Apocalypse from here. platoon, you know, boots on the ground. >> Um, the script didn't read like it was going. to be a masterpiece. The the script read um like a like a. kind of like a docu drama sort of movie. of the week. It didn't didn't read that. script and say, "Oh, wow. Okay, yeah, this is the one. People are going to.

really wow, they're going to worship. this thing." It didn't The dialogue was. very clipped and very um very specific. Um it it you kind of never really knew. where you were in the script in the. scene descriptions, >> you know. It it the script was so lean. I think it was like barely a hundred. pages. >> Really? >> Yeah. Um, so but I I I I didn't realize. sort of um what what we were doing until.

we were actually doing it. Usually I can. read a scene and get a sense of, you. know, what my responsibilities are going. to be or how we're going to break it. down or at least, you know, how how I'm. going to see it on the screen. And I. couldn't I couldn't do that with Platoon. because all the terrain, all the scenes, everything kind of felt very similar, you know, really. >> Yeah. And the original title was The. Platoon.

>> You think it's as big a hit if he keeps. the the. >> Yeah, I don't think it matters. It's a. great movie. >> Thank you. It's a great movie. It. doesn't matter. >> But we started to feel it as as we got. deeper into it. >> And and and Oliver did something. brilliant where he he decided to film it. in continuity. >> Like from page one, day one all the way. to the final day was the final page. And. that and that gave us a chance to like. when something was finished, you were. done with it. and and you didn't have to. know how you were going to react or how.

you already reacted to something that. hadn't happened yet, >> right? >> And when people died in the movie, they. got sent home. >> They were just like the next day they. were just gone. >> I guess he wanted us to feel that sense. of just someone gone, that loss that. that you know, sadness, you know. Now, I'm not saying that I I would know how. that felt in the real thing, but we. bonded really, you know, pretty pretty. Yeah, we were bonded in a way that um.

because we we were the only people that. we had in the middle of that country, in. the middle of that jungle, in the middle. of that movie. Um so, you really missed. somebody when they were suddenly gone. I. would love to ask I mean I've had Oliver. on a couple times but I would love to. ask him what it's like to make a movie. about a war that he was starring in and. like what kind of bizarre mental. conflicts. >> Yeah. Did Did he didn't get into any of. that stuff when he. >> Not really. I mean he talked a little. bit about his experience in Vietnam, but. I don't think we really talked about Did. we talk about the making of platoon?

>> We got so heavy into the JFK. assassination we hardly covered anything. else. Oh, got it. >> Especially the last time he was on. The. last time he was on was when they were. doing that Showtime JFK documentary. It. was a Showtime thing, right? Wasn't it? >> I think it was. Yeah. >> Yeah. Where there was a multi-art piece. that he put together. >> I saw it. Yeah. >> His recall is insane. >> It's insane. It is. You have a. conversation with him. He's pulling up. dates. He's got no book. I mean, how old.

is Oliver at this point in time? >> Um, upper 70s. I just turned 60. >> So if he was. >> 78. >> He's 78. >> 78 years old. Rock solid memory. I mean. rock solid. Wow. >> The dude was just pulling up dates and. names and Allan Dulles did this and. >> Wow. >> Harry. Well, it was just like the the. entire Warren Commission report. He's. like citing different passages in it. It's bananas. >> That's deep. Yeah. Wow.

has he landed on like what can he can he. point to or or is it is it several. factors can point to but there is a lot. of people that wanted him dead and for. sure there was a lot of [ __ ] going on. with the Warren Commission for sure. >> there's a lot of nonsense with the. autopsies there's a lot of nonsense with. the single bullet going through both him. and Connelly and leaving more bullet. fragments in Conny's wrist than that. magic bullet was missing the one they. found it's [ __ ] The story's filled.

with [ __ ] And no one really knew. how much [ __ ] it was until um they. had that video that they played of the. Zaprruder film on the Heraldo Rivera. show. >> Yeah. >> When Dick Gregory came on and who was a. comedian, which was pretty wild, came on. and had the footage of the Kennedy. assassination. Everybody sees Kennedy's. head go back into the left and you're. like, >> "Right, >> what what happened there?". >> And you immediately apply just simple. common physics to it. Yeah, >> you know, especially anybody who's who's.

ever fired a weapon. >> Also, it clearly looks like he got shot. in the chest, too. Like when he grabs. his neck, it clearly looks like he got. shot right there. >> And there's always that talk about doing. a tra, >> but you know, there's two different. autopsies. There's the autopsy in Dallas. that says it's an entry wound, and then. there's the autopsy in Bethesda, Maryland that says it's tracheotomy. >> Interesting. >> Yeah. Two different autopsies. >> Make up your mind. >> Yeah. And it also looks like by the time. they got to Bethesda, they kind of glued. his head back together again or at least. put the pieces back to take a photo of. it. It's like more was missing from what.

they were talking about in Dallas than. the Bethesda. >> That's the shot where the gloved hand is. like looks like it's pointing really. Yeah. There's a great book called Best. Evidence by David Lifton and he was an. accountant and they he had some sort of. an assignment involving the Warren. Commission report. And so what he. decided to do is read the entire thing. And so in the reading of the entire. thing, he finds so many contradictions, so many things that don't make any sense. that he starts becoming obsessed. And.

then he finds out how many people who. are witnesses to the assassination wind. up dying mysteriously. >> Right. Right. >> Off the charts. Yeah. >> Off the charts. Like 95% of them, >> all those people that were hanging. around like a a giant ton of them died. in car accidents. Weird [ __ ]. >> Who was the guy in the train tower? Guy. named Bowers, right? >> Who is Bowers? >> He was the guy that saw badge man. He. saw people behind the null. He saw the. exchange of the rifle. He saw all kinds. of [ __ ] He died. Uh.

>> I think he had a heart attack on a train. track and then. >> of course. >> also got hit by the train. I could be. wrong, but it was one of those type of. things, you know. >> But of course. Yeah. >> And then but uh wasn't it what was the. who who's the guy uh who's standing at. the when the curb explodes like near the. underpass? >> Oh, yeah. That's the guy that's the. reason why they had to come up with the. magic bullet theory. >> Is that Teague? No. What's his. >> I don't remember. Did he die weird? >> Probably. >> I don't know if he died weird, but he. was hit with a ricochet, >> right? >> And because they knew that the overpass.

that's why they had. >> that adds a bullet. >> Yes. They had to add that and they Okay, how do we fix this? >> Right. I mean, we said only one guy did. it. There's only three shots, so how do. we come up with a reasonable excuse? And. they came up with the magic bullet. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I I And I think the uh the the. architect of that was was Spectre, you. know, >> I think it was Aron Spectre. Yeah. I. think it was his idea. >> The wait is over. Two poundfor-pound. Kings, one epic showdown. Canelo versus.

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>> And you see all the additional cameras. like Babushka Lady for instance, right? And and all that stuff just confiscated. and never Yeah. >> Well, they had the Zruder film for a. long time. I think Time Life had it and. then somehow or another Dick Gregory got. it. >> Was it ever released with missing. frames? Wasn't there the jump cut when he goes. behind the sign and then it jumps? Because they didn't they take out the. the fatal head hit at some point and.

then tried to sell that. >> Perhaps they probably did at one point. in time. Um, but now obviously you could. see the whole thing. And then it's also. been AI enhanced. I don't know if you've. seen the AI enhanced one. >> I haven't. No. >> It's grizzly. >> It's even more gruesome. >> It's gruesome. I mean, I think he was. shot from multiple angles. simultaneously. That's what I think. I. think he was shot both from the back and. from the front. >> And I think Lee Harvey Oswald, if he. wasn't involved, he certainly wasn't.

innocent. He He was probably the guy. that they were going to frame it on, right? >> But I think he was in on the whole. thing. I mean, I think he killed a cop. afterwards as well. >> Tippet. No. Tippet. Yeah. Yeah. Have you. ever read that thing about um because uh. Tippet's nickname back at the precinct. was JFK. read this thing. Then they show. the side by side of how much they really. look like each other. So they're saying. he was the body they used for the. transfer when they flew with the empty. coffin. You know, all that stuff about. Yeah, it's I mean it is so there's so.

many just, you know, warren to travel. down and there's so many angles to. explore. >> There's too many there's so many rabbit. holes to go down. >> We were introduced to it as kids cuz dad. played both Kennedys. So, we were seeing. documentaries at like, you know, I would. have been 10 or 11. Ameilia was 13 or. 14. And so, we've been involved in this. thing for a lot longer than we should. have been. >> Wow. >> Yeah. We had access to this stuff. And.

so, um, >> was just nuts that no one was brought to. justice. And we know for sure more. people were involved than Jack Ruby and. Lee Harvey Oswald. There was more people. involved and no one was brought to. justice and they got away with it. We. don't want to think that they get away. with things like killing the president, but they did. >> in broad daylight. >> Yeah. And blaming it on a lone gunman, a. lone nut. >> Yeah. Yeah. Who who they already had a. full description and and and rapture. rundown and everything about they.

printed articles about him before it was. even over. >> Yeah. And then the Jack Ruby thing where. Jack Ruby goes completely insane in jail. after he's visited by Jolly West who is. the head of MK Ultra who is like. routinely dosing people with acid. >> Yeah, >> he cooked Jolly Jolly Jolly West cooked. Jack Ruby's brain in jail. >> It just left him insane. >> He's the guy from um what's the book. that it's Chaos. >> From Chaos. Yeah, I actually read Chaos. before it got all the attention. Really?

>> Yeah. um friend of mine gave it to me. and I was and I all right I'll I'll read. a couple pages and I was like oh. >> oh okay this is this is yeah this is one. of the best books. >> a different take. >> but I'm curious how you felt about the. documentary they did about it. >> I didn't watch it. >> okay I. >> I thought it was going to be too quick. 90 minutes I didn't think was like. enough time only 90 minutes right. >> I thought it was the first episode. >> oh you watched it sort of like a data.

gathering thing that you usually do with. the first episode and kind of just. seeing where the what the director's. doing and what kind of stuff they're. laying out early. >> Yeah. >> So, and then when it ended and I didn't. see that. >> second episode with the timer, right? >> Uhhuh. >> And I was Oh, that's and I thought it. was a complete uh I thought it radically. underserved the book. >> Yeah. Maybe they could try again. They. need to That needs to be like an eight. part twohour a piece series. >> Thank you.

>> Yeah. >> Thank you. Yeah, because. >> it's so nuts. The story is so nuts. Just. the provable actual facts are so nuts. that very likely Charles Manson was a. CIA asset. Very likely they had groomed. him when he was in prison and taught him. mind control techniques when people were. high on acid, taught him how to be. sober, but pretend he's on acid and how. to interact with these people that on. acid and shape their mind and even get. them to commit murder. All of which is. fact.

Yeah. No, it's it's it's it's it's. I would say it's insane, but so much of. it is I don't want to say provable, but. but but but has enough supporting. evidence to make a compelling case. >> And I love that the guy starts out just. like a, you know, just a kind of a. normal celebrity assignment for Premier. magazine, right? Yeah, I've been on that. magazine. I had that cover twice. My story didn't wind up like that.

>> I think that it was a story for a. magazine and it was just about the. anniversary of the murders. >> Exactly. >> That's it. >> That's what it was. Yeah. >> You know, just give us a piece, you. know, so people go, "Wow, crazy. 25. years later." Wow. >> And then he gets obsessed. And he starts. realizing, well, this guy was full of. [ __ ] and that guy was corrupted. Oh my. god, look at this. And. >> hold on. >> Who's Jolly West? You know, like what's. MK Ultra? This is real. Freedom of. Information Act. Get the documents. Oh. my god. Operation Midnight Climax, the. the government was running whouses. They.

were running whouses and using two-way. mirrors and dosing John's and filming. them. And this has to do with Manson. Like, what what the [ __ ] was going on? Yeah. >> And then you realize that it was all a a. scop to try to demonize the peace, love, and stop war movement. and that what. they really wanted to do was stop the. anti-war movement and do something to. curb the cultural change that was. happening. And so their strategy was to.

turn hippies into murderers. >> It it it it kind of worked. >> It kind of worked. Yeah, >> it kind of worked. >> Yeah. I mean, it's a long way to go, >> but it uh I think it had the effect they. were looking for. >> Imagine if they didn't do that. Like. what kind of cultural change would have. taken place? Because if you think about. what what happened between 1950 and. 1960, it's like the world becomes a. different place in 10 years. Between. 1960 and 1970 is like what? This world. is crazy. The music is crazy. The.

culture is crazy. The movies are nuts. Everything is wild. It's very. psychedelic. And then Nixon comes along. in 1970, passes this sweeping schedule. one act, makes all mushrooms and LSD, makes everything illegal, all to stop. the civil wars, the civil civil rights. movement and the anti-war movement at. the same time. When they're doing this. Manson stuff. So, it was a concerted. effort across the board to stop the. anti-war movement and to stop the civil.

rights movement. They were like, "We're. losing control and power." And so I mean. it was an evil thing to do but you kind. of got to give them credit because it. was pretty brilliant. Like they they. actually pulled it off. You think of. serial killer, you think of Manson. You. think of the family. Oh my god, these. hippies are murderous. A bunch of. murderous freaks on drugs cutting. women's babies out of their stomachs and. writing pig on the wall. Like. >> this is nuts. And they and they brought. the Beatles into it. >> And our own goddamn government.

engineered it. They engineered, they. stopped what was probably one of the. most beautiful cultural shifts in this. country's history. >> That would have organically still kept. evolving into other things that would. have would have blossomed out of it. >> Yeah, we probably would have. >> rethought government. We probably would. have like rethought. >> the type of people that we want as. leaders. We would have rethought our. involvement in foreign wars. There would. been no support for it. We would have.

rethought what psychedelic drugs can do. for you versus uh the bad aspects of. them. We would have rethought. everything. We would have re we would. have the music would have been a lot. better. Music took a big dip. >> Yeah, it did. >> Music took a big dip after they got rid. of the drugs that were good and brought. in the coke. >> But people do point to the death of the. 60s uh occurred up at Drive. >> Yeah. Yeah. It was effective. >> Yeah. I mean that that completely.

demonized any peace, love, and you know, any of that kind of movement th those. people became a real problem now because. you're now connected to Manson. >> It was instantly zero tolerance. >> Mhm. >> Like overnight. >> Kind of nuts. >> Yeah. >> Kind of nuts that it it was really all. engineered by the government, you know. It's a really that in itself in and of. itself is a a terrible crime that they. they sort of engineered society to their. benefit so that they could maintain. control. And the way they did it is by.

getting a a a horrible con who had been. in and out of jail his whole life and. teaching him how to run a cult. >> Right. Right. a murderous cult. >> and setting up at a free clinic in the. hate. >> where my wife's mom went. >> Oh. >> yes. My wife's mom was a hippie. >> You have a connection to this? >> Yes. >> My wife's mom went she was a hippie in. Hate Ashbury and she went to the Hate. Ashbury free clinic. >> Treated at that clinic. >> Yes. Wow. >> You know that clinic didn't shut down.

until after Tom O'Neal's book came out. That clinic would have been running for. over 50 years. >> So it ran till like 2022. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Ran. When did it close? It closed. shortly after that book came out. Hey, we're good. Let's get out of here. >> I could have gone there while I was. reading the book. >> Yes. The CI was just not for any. treatment [ __ ] clinic. >> What a trip. >> That is so nuts. And that clinic also. connected to Jolly West. That clinic. also connected to all sorts of other.

marijuana experience. San Francisco is. where they were doing Operation Midnight. Climax. That's where they had a brothel. These are the people that are supposed. to be like protect and serve, look out. for your best interest, right? >> And these [ __ ] are creating. Manson and completely shifting society. >> and turning people into whatever the. [ __ ] we became in the 70s and the 80s. >> Yeah. >> The book came out June 25th, 2019. >> Yeah. >> And the clinic closed July 2019.

>> Seriously? >> Yeah. a month later. Like, [ __ ] we're we got. busted. >> That dude read the forward and was like, "Guys, we got a problem.". >> Yeah. They That's probably how long it. took them just to clear the building. out. >> Yeah. Exactly. >> And try to figure out whether they're. going to kill Tom O'Neal. >> Right. Right. Has he been on the show? >> Yes. Oh, wow. Okay. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. >> What's he like? Is he. >> He's great. He's great. He's actually my. good friend Greg Fitz Simmons. He was. his neighbor in New York. Okay.

>> When he first started working on this. and then he became his neighbor also in. Venice. like he's been his neighbor for. like 20 years. So Greg's followed him. from this entire journey and Greg had. been telling me about it for years. I'm. like, "When's your friend going to get. that [ __ ] book done?" And then. finally he says tells me the whole. story, how it took so long, why he's. like, "You got to have him on. The book. is insane." I'm like, "Let's go." Wow. >> So we had him on and it was inc. First. of all, I listened to the book first. before I had him on. I listened to the. audio version. I was like, "This is.

nuts. This is nuts. If this is all true, this is [ __ ] insane. And it's all. true. So, they really did engineer a a murderous. cult of of hippies. >> and and almost used um the clinic um as. a as a casting couch as as an audition. process for which girls they thought. would be the most moldable, vulnerable. Yeah. >> Crazy. Yeah.

>> Crazy that the CIA was doing that. It's just. >> I thought they were supposed to just. operate on foreign soil. >> I know they were, but you know, sometimes things get messy, but it's. like they you you talk to like your. average boomer who just watches uh cable. news and reads the newspaper, they they. never believe this in a million years. >> And they'll hear us talking about it. thinking, "Come on, guys. You're out of. your mind. Come on." And but they but. they but they also will never read the. book. >> No. Never read the book. And then when. things get proven, they never apologize.

>> Imagine that. >> Never apologize for your baseless. conspiracy theories that all turned out. to be true. >> Yeah. >> Because you know, conspiracies are. [ __ ] real. Okay. This this conspiracy. theory porative that they really started. foisting on the American public during. the Kennedy assassination was for that. very reason. They wanted to make it. ridiculous for you to be. >> That's where the term was coined. >> That's where the term became. popularized. Apparently, the term. existed before that. We we we researched. this, right? Didn't we uh Google the.

original term of conspiracy theorists? It's quite a bit earlier, but it was. never like a thing in the public. zeitgeist, right? It became a thing. during the Kennedy assassination because. a lot of people were questioning it. because it looked weird, you know, everything it even the people that. hadn't seen the appruder film, everything just seemed off. It seemed. and there was rumblings amongst people. that were there that there the big one. was the shots from the grassy null. Many. people talked about gunshots. >> and that one photo where there's like 15. people pointing to the same spot.

>> and you see smoke. >> near where the the bushes are and it's. not a good photo but it's good enough. that you go hm. >> it's just too it was too uniform. >> you know people were they all were. pointing we heard shots from back there. is a thing that does happen um. especially if you look at del plaza have. you ever driven through. >> I have yeahve I've I've I've walked the. crime scene. It's weird to be there. First of all, it's so little. >> It's You can't believe how close. everything is.

>> It's real. >> And that they But that they sent him. into that tight turn and put him into. that convertible. >> pickle jar. Yeah. >> Completely planned. >> And you watch the motorcycle cops drop. back. >> Uhhuh. >> Just drop back. Which is There's There's. something I read. Um Did you ever read. um The Man Who Killed Kennedy? >> I think it's uh Jim Mars. Do you. remember Jim Mars? Yeah. Did you ever. have him on? >> No, I didn't. >> Okay. He's He's. >> Did he pass? >> I think so. Yeah. Yeah. He wrote Sci. Spies, >> which um was in it all about remote.

viewing. >> Oh, >> yeah. Yeah. He's a trip. He was deep. into everything. >> I go back and forth on that remote. viewing stuff. >> I do too. I do too. But um there's. something in one of his books. Um and. I've never been able to find it. anywhere. It's almost like this little. detail was scrubbed from the internet. that the the Morse code signal for. victory um right after the fatal headsh. shot went out over every Dallas police. radio. >> Whoa. >> Have you ever heard that?

>> No. >> Okay. I read that. This is disclaimer. I'm not coming up with this. This is not. my original. >> data. Um but yeah, when I read that, that was that was just that was creepy. That's crazy. >> And I don't know that he would have just. added that for color. That's not. something you just throw out there. >> Yeah, that's that's a weird thing to. add. Victory. Well, a lot of people. hated Kennedy back then. It's hard for. us to reconcile now today because we.

think of him as like one of our greatest. presidents. Of course, because he got. murdered. We always love him after they. get shot. >> Sure. But when he was alive, this this. was like half the country [ __ ] hated. him. And then there was the Bay of Pigs. disaster where we lost a lot of people. because Kennedy didn't give him air. support. He wasn't told about the. invasion until like last moment and air. support was crucial to its success. He. denied air support. A bunch of people. died that weren't going to die. And so. those guys on the ground,

>> my friend Evan has a theory. my friend. Evan who owns Black Rifle Coffee who was. a ranger himself. >> I met him. >> He's the best. I love him. I love him to. death. Um but he said like those guys, those are hardnosed killers and if they. think that they lost their brothers. because this [ __ ] piece of [ __ ]. didn't give them the air support that. they deserved. It was Kennedy's idea and. you tell them that you want to get that. guy killed like, "Oh, [ __ ] sign me. up." Those guys would do it. >> Interesting. He's like, those would be.

the type of guys you would have do. something like that and they would. probably tell you this would be a. perfect place to do it. That tight. little turn. Anybody who says, by the. way, because conspiracies get everybody. gets binary on this one way or another. I believe this or I believe that. Anybody says that Lee Harvey Oswald. couldn't make that shot has never shot a. rifle. >> You're full of [ __ ] If it the rifle's. on, it was not that far. I'm not saying. he could do it a hundred times out of a. hundred, right? But the possibility of. him having that rifle ready, he's got a.

scope, he's got a rest, the the the car. comes into view, you roll the sight onto. his back, you squeeze off around, squeeze off around, whack, and you get a. head shot in there. That's 100%. possible. I just don't buy it, >> right? >> I don't buy it. I don't I don't think he. acted alone. If he did do it, he might. have done it. He might have shot at him. He might have even hit him once. There. was other people. There was He was the. psy and I think when he said I'm just a. psych. >> The way he said it was not like a guy. who murdered somebody. The way he said.

it was like I can't believe they set me. up. >> Exactly. Exactly. >> So I think he was in on a bunch of it. I. just don't think he pulled the trigger. Or if he did pull the trigger, he was. one of many people that pulled the. trigger. >> That's what I think. >> Yeah. >> But there was a lot of other people. saying, "Oh, he couldn't have made those. shots because the rifle scope was off.". That's You don't know what the [ __ ]. you're talking about because I could get. your rifle scope to be off in 5 seconds. >> Okay, if your rifle scope's perfect, is. it zeroed in? Bang. I drop it on the. ground. Try it again. It'll be off by 6.

in at 200 yard. >> You're going to move that thing. It's. They're fragile. They They require micro. adjustments with little Allen wrenches. and hex keys and [ __ ] And people they. don't torque them too much. You get it. dialed in perfect. >> on a on a $37 rifle. >> Yeah. on a rifle from 1963. >> from the back of a magazine. >> Yeah, of course that thing could get. knocked off easily. Like almost. instantly you can knock that thing off. >> There is a thing about the tree though. >> What about the tree? >> That he had to shoot through a tree.

because what they've done in a lot of. the reenactments um yeah, you know, supporting that he was the lone gunman. Um they they did uh cut out part of the. tree that Kennedy's behind. >> They cut it out for the reenactment. >> Yeah. really. So, yeah. So, he would. have a clear field of view. >> But he had a clear view field of view. for at least a brief amount of time. >> Sure. >> And that's all you need. That's all you. need if you were good and if you. practiced. And I'm assuming that if. you're going to go shoot the president, you probably get used to firing off a. few rounds. You probably set up a.

target. So, you're not going to just. hope that your accuracy is still there. from three years ago. Yeah. You're going. to practice. So, if you're going to. practice, you're going to be even. quicker at racking a new round. >> Sure. >> He could have done it. I just don't buy. it. It just none of the evidence seems. to point in that direction, including. all the evidence that they try to. fabricate. Like the magic bullet one is. nuts. Anybody who's ever shot anything. with a bullet who looks at that and. believes that went through two people. and broke bones. >> Yeah. >> That looks like it shot got sent into a.

swimming pool. >> Yeah. >> It doesn't look like it ever hit. anything. >> No. And and and I've had people like, you know, debate me and taking the side. of the magic bullet. They're not they're. >> and like look me right in the eyes and. do and believe it and I'm just like okay. well cool this is where we have to. >> just they're out of their mind. >> Yeah. We have to walk away. >> They're out of their mind. They don't. know. I could show them like let's go. >> let's go take a bone from a cow. Let's. set up a bone from a cow and I'll shoot.

it at a 100 yards. >> One bone. >> Yeah. Just one. >> Just one bone. And let's take a look at. that bullet. >> Right. Yeah. >> It's not going to look anything like. that. It's going to be all [ __ ] up. >> And there's the fragments. There's. missing fragments from the bullet that. are in Conny's wrist that are more. fragments that are missing from the. actual bullet they're attributing to the. wound. >> You can't It's just Yeah, >> but they did it. That's what's nuts. We. can sit here and talk about it till the. cows come home. >> Do you know about the palm print though?

Oh, that um that they linked the rifle. to Oswald because of a palm print on on. the stock. >> when they went to visit him in the morg. >> Yeah. They didn't get it till after the. autopsy. Yeah. Huh. It wasn't there. And. then surprise. >> How convenient. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And also like says who says who. his fingerprint was on it. You could. just say that back then 1963 the. government says we found a fingerprint. Oswald doesn't have a lawyer. No one's. representing him. He's dead. Yeah.

>> You know, no one's going to say, "My. client is innocent. He's [ __ ] dead.". Okay. >> Pin it on him. Nobody gives a [ __ ]. >> And everybody just mourned the fact that. the president was dead. And then, you know, all of a sudden, you got. Lynden Johnson full steam ahead with. Vietnam War. >> Yeah. >> It's nuts. >> Yeah. If you usually look what look at. what happens after the major event, it. like it's. >> things got very different. Yeah, they. got very different. >> That's when you really start to see.

like, okay, yeah, >> Kennedy was trying to be a real. president and they were like, uh, none. of that. >> Yeah, it was the Federal Reserve. It was. Vietnam. It was like all these big like. really important things. He wanted to. get us out of he wanted to kill the CIA. He wanted to do a lot of things. >> Yeah. >> And they were like, "Not today, sir.". >> Then that's the the real argument is. like we haven't really had a president. since Kennedy. Everything after that has. been the president's been more of a a. speaker. >> Interesting.

>> And the the giant machine behind it. continues to run exactly as it always. has. >> Yeah. I mean um and and uh just from. where I sit, there's there's not a lot. you can do about it. >> There's nothing you can do about it. You. can talk, but look, if they haven't done. anything about the Kennedy. assassination, you can't do [ __ ]. >> No. You you you you could put pressure. on people and you um you definitely can. hurt their chances of getting reelected. if people find out that they're very. disappointed in you for sure not. supporting this or not telling us about.

that or lying about this or you were. involved in that. >> Yeah. But other than that, like there's. not much not much you can do. >> Yeah. That's why I don't really weigh in. anymore. >> Good. >> It's probably smart. >> You know, just it's feels like I don't. know. It was wasted energy. >> It definitely is a lot of that, but it's. also like a show, you know. You could. watch the show. Hey, have you heard the. watch the latest episode of the Epstein. Files? Like, what's going on? Yeah. You. know? >> Yeah. It turns into turns into a parlor.

game also, you know? >> Right. That's that's how my dad. described the OJ case. He said, "This is. like the greatest parlor game ever, >> right?". >> You know, >> boy, I remember watching that verdict on. TV live in my apartment with this girl I. was dating. She was a really sweet girl. and she couldn't believe that he was. innocent and she didn't understand it. >> She was so confused. >> Yeah. It didn't line up. >> She was like, "No.". >> No. How? She just kept she kept like. putting her hands over her face. No. No.

>> It it it completely torquked her her. whole reality. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I was on a on a mountaintop in. Mexico doing a kind of a you know low. rent sci-fi film called The Arrival. I. love that movie. Don't say that was a. low rent movie. I love that movie. You. know who turned me out of that movie? Dave Foley. Dave Foley who's a good. friend of mine from News Radio. Okay. >> Uh when we were on News Radio together, he [ __ ] loved that movie. He goes,

"This is a so underrated sci-fi movie.". I'm like, "Okay, cool.". >> And I checked it out. It was great. I. love it. >> Thank you. Thank you. It was it was the. first um film that actually incorporated. a mashup of puppets and CGI at the same. time because it at that point it was. either one or the other and and the. other hadn't fully really arrived yet, you know. Yeah. Um so that was kind of. cool. But no, we were. >> um I was so hoping for the day off to be.

back at the hotel cuz everybody knew the. night before that the that the verdict. was coming, right? So, we had to shoot. this scene and and there was a there was. a prop man and he had the only this is. 95, right? He had the only uh cell phone. and it had like half a bar and it's and. then and it's starting to rain and he's. got his ear and his his buddy's got his. phone in LA up to the TV when they're. about to read the verdict. Wow. So, we. all gather around the prop man and we're.

watching him and he's kind of leaning to. keep the signal to keep it to kind of. keep, you know, connected. And then we. can see when he hears it, he he slumps a. little bit, right? Takes the phone from. his ear and slams it into the mud and. screams, "That [ __ ] got away. with murder.". >> His voice like echoed through the mist. It was gnarly. That's a wild scene. >> That's how I learned about the OJ. Verdict. Yeah.

>> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Dave Anderson was there with me. He's a. buddy I grew up with. He's in the book. He's a he's a he's a two-time Oscar. winning FX makeup artist, you know. And. so, yeah, if you ever run across Dave. the Rave, uh Anderson, ask him about the. OJ Verdict. >> That's a crazy just a crazy scene. Imagine a guy reacting like that. He was. our only connection to it, you know, and. everybody was so invested in this thing. and it was really hard to go and that. was like, do you remember time of day.

that might have happened? >> Kind of late morning sort of or was it. in the afternoon? >> I don't remember. I don't remember at. all. >> We still had a a pretty sizable day to. shoot and it was really hard to regain. focus. >> and feel like what we were doing still. mattered. >> Yeah. Because there there was a uh there. was a giant just there was like a murmur. in the universe at that point, you know, >> like something it felt like something. had been taken from us, >> you know.

>> Yeah. >> Yeah. Civility. >> Did you see the last um or the most. recent uh OJ documentary? >> No. >> It's um. it's Murder, Mayhem, and Blood. I think it's got. three. Murder, Mayhem, and Blood. Something. murder, Mayhem, and lies. Uh, >> something. I'm probably way off with. that title. >> American Man. >> No.

No, it's actually it's. >> But it's the latest OJ documentary. >> Well, I guess Manhunt will be the. latest. >> This Yeah, this is the one that that was. before that. And it and it's it's broken. down at the crime scene by uh two like. expert veteran uh recreationists. >> Yeah, it's it's a trip. >> Do you do you watch any OJ stuff that. that comes out? No. >> No, I try not to. >> Yeah, >> because. >> it's just too weird.

>> I Okay. >> Do Do you think there was something else. there or No, I think he killed his wife. >> Yeah. >> And he killed Ron Goldman. >> and he got away with it. >> Yeah. And it's just nuts. It's just, you. know, it's weird. You watch him on like. Naked Gun and you're like, "That guy. >> Yeah, >> that guy murdered his wife with a knife. Like what?" And then he got away with it. and he just golfing. >> Yeah. It was a followup part that didn't. really support anything about what he. had claimed. >> You remember when he was a rapper? >> Uh, >> you remember the juices loose? You.

remember that? >> Oh gosh. I think I think I just will I. will that one out of my. >> He had like a like a like a king's robe. on and like it was a bunch of hot ladies. around him. >> Okay, it's coming back to me. Yeah, >> he made a rap song. >> Wow. Wow. >> Yeah, he was like embracing the heel. role at one point in time after the the. guilty verdict or the not guilty. verdict. >> Right. Right. Yeah. And so he he got. into like rap. >> I mean, probably just just for just for.

a monetary grab, >> I would imagine. Let me play it. Play. the juices loose. >> It's so bad. >> Oh my god. >> It's It's Is it off of YouTube? That. would be hilarious. >> He had a It was part of a TV show. He. had I saw another clip recently. >> Oh, that's right. >> He has like a prank show. He was trying. to prank people. Was like probably pre. uh. >> uh. >> Jackass. Yeah, but I'm trying to think. of the thing they had on MTV. >> that they did with all the celebrities. I couldn't think. >> Got it. >> OJ was doing that.

>> No, but he. >> Everybody would just run away screaming. people. Yeah, he did it to a lady like. walked up to her hotel room with a. knife. >> Oh my god. That was one of his scenes. >> Jesus Christ. >> You got Juiced is what it was called. >> You got Juiced. >> You got Damn. >> But I don't I'm trying to find this. >> Also, the music video had a bunch of uh. that was Yeah. It was aired on like uh. pay-per-view, whatever. I don't know if. it was like the Spice Channel or. something like that. >> Spike, remember the Spice Channel? H. Yeah. Uh but that whole thing going from.

that verdict to try and going back to. work. >> Picture. It's not It's not the video, but yeah. The musical. >> Look at that. >> I remember one time we were uh filming. news radio. I was in the middle of that. North Hollywood shootout. Do you. remember that? >> I do. Yeah. and we were watching it live. on TV while trying to do a sitcom and we. were like we probably should take some. time off here. There's a [ __ ] war. going on in the middle of North. Hollywood. >> Wow. Yeah, that was. >> I think that involved a lot of cocaine.

and steroids too. >> from from the brothers. >> from the guys. I know they were. definitely on steroids, but I think they. were there was probably some. >> or meth, >> something like that. >> Yeah, I think meth would have kept them. there for a lot longer. Yeah. >> For people who don't know the story, these guys um did they they rob a bank? Is that what they did? >> Yeah. But waited. >> Yeah. >> Like could have driven away, could have. left with all the all all the dough. >> and they decided to get in a shootout. with the cops. Yeah. And killed cops,

>> right? >> Yes. >> I mean, and they got killed. A bunch of. cops got hit. >> and the cops were like horribly. outgunned. >> Oh, yeah. >> The cops had their 9mm pistols and these. guys have [ __ ] machine guns and. bulletproof vests. >> Yeah. Kevlar helmets and they had face. masks. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Now, do you support that when the. dude finally kills himself that it was a. simultaneous sniper shot at the same. time? >> I never even looked into that. Is that. one of the. >> Well, it's just it's Yeah, that's one. thing that they claim.

>> that he got shot and shot himself at the. exact same time. >> The exact same time. >> It's possible. >> But why would they like What does that. serve? Like what does that. >> maybe they were already going to shoot. him and he shot himself and they didn't. think he was going to shoot himself and. they pulled the trigger right when he. did. >> Got it. >> That's what I would guess if that's the. case. >> But it's not like they have to be let. off the hook because at that point that. dude has to be put down. >> Yeah. I mean one of the guys had already. been shot and he was shot in the leg and. they didn't get him any medical help.

They knew he was going to bleed out, >> you know. I think I think that was the. case. I think he got shot in his femoral. artery. >> Yeah. The fir the first guy it says he. died by this is from Wikipedia. He died. by suicide via gunshot to the head from. his handgun, simultaneously being hit by. rifle fire from LAPD officers with one. round striking and severing his spine. >> Whoa. >> The other guy got shot 20 over 29 times. and died from blood loss. >> Wow. >> I mean, what are the odds that the. >> crazy. >> that the thing with.

>> Yeah, it's kind of. >> Well, it sounds like there were a lot of. bullets were flying in his direction. Over 2,000 rounds were found. Jesus. >> thousand. Like what does that weigh? Like if you're carting that around and. you've got a whole duff of cash. Yeah. You must have a heavy trunk. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That is bananas. >> Half was the police. But. >> wow. >> Still. >> imagine being in that that neighborhood. They just. >> I think that's where I moved. >> 2,000 rounds are flying in both.

directions. >> Well, the cops like went to a gun store, right? Didn't they? I think they did. >> Like right when it started and they were. like, "Whatever you got, you know, give. us your your biggest bore rifle, you. know, whatever you got, we'll take it.". Yeah. How much ammo you got? >> I mean, how long did that go on for? >> Uh, about an hour. >> Wow. >> They had homemade body armor. SWAT team. wasn't ready for that. They had to. commandeer an armored vehicle to. evacuate wounded people. >> Wow. >> Uh, yeah. Then they uh that's that kind.

of sparked the debate for police to get. more power. Geez. >> Yeah, that was a that was kind of a that. was a turning point moment. >> Now, if you're a real conspiracy. theorist, then you say, "Oh, MK Ultra. tricked those guys into doing that so. that the cops can get better militarized. and Yeah. Yeah. >> Well, this is the problem with. conspiracies. People try attribute them. to everything, >> right? >> You really get down the rabbit hole. Everything's a conspiracy. >> Yeah. Yeah. But then when they do that, they kind of um they they they they.

[Music]. harm the credibility of the ones that. that can really be, >> you know, considered for for, you know, >> for for the for how we know them to be, you know, after after all the extensive. research, you know. >> Yeah. No doubt. Yeah, there's real ones. But I think that's also part of the. thing reason why, you know, some really. silly conspiracy theories get pushed. I. think they get pushed by bots and I. think they get pushed by paid accounts.

>> to to water down the real ones. Yeah. >> To make make them look stupid and. they'll like attach them attach a really. stupid conspiracy to one that's. legitimate and then it discredits the. legitimate one. >> Yeah. It's almost like, you know, not to. introduce this, but just from afar, it's. almost like the a lot of the Qanon stuff. kind of had that effect just. >> Yeah. you know, um I didn't dig deep. into that and don't, you know, and only. know just the just the basic, you know, talking points about it,

>> but um but one thing I did see that was. felt like a a constant was that there. was always uh anytime they'd mentioned. something that was just completely. screwy, it was followed up with the ones. that that that we believe to be real, >> right? You know, there just kind of this. big just this kind of just put them all. in the same. >> Yeah. a stew of good stuff and [ __ ]. >> Exactly. Yeah. And just just stirred. that cauldron, you know. >> Yeah. That's a very convenient way to. bury truth. The Qanon documentary on HBO.

was great. Uh Enter the Fire. That was. called. >> Yeah. into. something. >> I didn't see it. >> Into the Storm. >> Into the Storm. >> Oh, okay. >> It's really good. Is it? Yeah. It's a. multi-art thing on all the people that. were involved in 4chan and the creation. of QAnon. Okay. >> Who they think the original guy was and. they think another guy took it over. after a while and took over the account. >> Got it. >> And it seems like they were just kind of.

[ __ ] around at first, but it's not. definitive. Like he's got some really. good evidence that points in that. direction, but it's it's just hard to. know. And you know, everyone always. thought that it was someone inside the. White House. There was some like secret. person inside the White House. It. doesn't seem like this documentary. believes that. The guy who made this. documentary, he pins it on one guy in. particular that's a tech nerd that seems. to have all of the attributes of someone. who could pull off a QAnon type deal.

Yeah. a super smart, you know, internet. [ __ ] poster, you know, running 4chan, you know, and like. >> that's the whole thing over there is. like get people to do stuff that's. stupid, right? >> Like they got women to free bleed. They. they started pushing this idea that you, you know, it's uh the patriarchy is. making you wear a tampon and you should. just your menstrual cycle should just. flow in your pants and who cares and. this is like a sign of your strong. femininity. It was just them being crazy.

and then a bunch of women just adopted. it. >> Wow. >> Not for long. Obviously, it's gross. They were like, "This is stupid. Probably last a couple weeks." But but a. bunch of women, but it's that's people. are really susceptible. You could get. people to do that. Not everybody, right? >> But it's just like the hate ashberry. free clinic thing. Not everybody's going. to join your cult, right? >> But if you open up a free clinic, you're. going to get enough, you know, lost. children that come in through your. doors. Well, they're going to need your. legit services. >> Yeah.

>> To start with. Yeah. >> Exactly. Exactly. Yeah. You got to sort. it out. >> Right. >> You know, it's just nuts that that. that's our government. That's our our. daddies. Our our government daddies, the. people that we're supposed to be looking. to to help us lead a prosperous life and. secure our standing in the world and. make sure we grow financially. And these. [ __ ] did all that. Yeah. >> Yeah. Well, you know, uh ultimate power,

right? >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. In any form. >> Well, they bringing it back to stardom. Like that's a weird power to get. somebody. >> It's a Especially when you're 21 years. old. Like Yeah. It's a weird power. >> Weird amount of freedom. Weird amount of. like people expecting you to be kind of. wild. >> Sure. Yeah. And um again that thing you talked. about where you watch it happen to. others and then suddenly it's it's it's. you.

>> um it's uh it's it's it's a lot more. it's a lot more intoxicating. And then I would always think okay so. why why how were they able to control. it? Why didn't why didn't I see them. enjoying it at this level? And it wasn't. about I'm gonna show them the way they. should have been doing it. It was just. about, hey guys, okay, cool. No, it's. it's it it it it finally made its way. over here and and it it it can go to 11,

you know, and and and not burn the whole. house down, you know, when it was still. fun, when it was still creative and and. and productive on some level, you know. Um because it wasn't about uh it was. still having to show up and it was. still, you know, carving out enough time. for the party but also reserving enough. >> uh you know energy for the job, >> right? You know, >> that's the balance. >> That's the balance.

>> And some people pull it off. Some people. they're really disciplined and they pull. off the work and then they pull off the. partying. >> Right. Right. And I I was able to. maintain that for for a long time, you. know, and even when it flamed out like. those early rehabs and and there was. always like there was a job like the day. I got out. >> Wow. >> You know, scripts showing up in rehab. and it's like they're just they're just. they they want you to get they want you. to get well, kid. They want you to get. better, but you know, as soon as you're.

out of here, you know, we got we got. some good stuff for you to look at. There's also unfortunately a romantic. notion of a guy getting out of rehab. >> Interesting. >> Right. >> Interesting. >> How many cop shows start with a guy. who's down on his dumps putting a pizza. in a blender for breakfast. You know. what I mean? Like really like at his. lowest of low points, right? >> Drinking and then maybe his daughter. cries and he throws the bottles into the. trash can. He's like, "I'm done." And. now he's back. And there's a romantic.

thing to getting your [ __ ] together. >> Sure. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. like Charlie's. back better than ever, you know. >> Yeah. And it's uh it's you know, everybody's rooting for you again. >> Yeah. >> You know, and they and they and they're. expecting the the the guy to deliver. >> Yeah. with passion now. Real life. experience. He was a drug addict. >> Exactly. Yeah. >> Look at Robert Downey Jr. now, >> right? >> Yeah. People love that. They love that. But the same thing was happening to. Downey when when he when when he was in. rehab or maybe when he was even in the.

pen when they um people were bringing. him I think he was I think they brought. him Ali Mciel when he was still in jail. >> And I don't think I think he still got. high after that. >> you know and my dad would always be like. yelling at the television. It's like. stop rewarding his this behavior. Stop. rewarding him. Let him let him let him. sit in those consequences. Not out of. judgment or out of punishment or, you. know, just out of love, you know, >> to help him get his [ __ ] together. Yeah. If you keep letting them [ __ ] up over.

and over again, they'll continue to [ __ ]. up. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> But if there's always a carrot the day. you walk out, you know, something to. something to chase and and and and a. soft landing. >> Yeah. You know, that's what was really. interesting about this, you know, this this this uh this decade. decadel long timeout that I got that I. got put into, you know. Um which, you. know, at some point the the punishment. has to sort of fit the crime, right? Um.

and uh yeah, it was it was it it felt. like it had it was a little bit longer. than it than it should have been. Yeah. Yeah. I don't remember any murder. charges, you know. Um but at the same time um there's not a. chance that I that I could have done the. the two projects that I've that wow the. book came out yesterday and the doc. comes out today you know um I I couldn't. have done either unless I had the kind. of perspective and distance from all of.

that that I that I was able to to to get. to find you know. >> you've been sober for how long? Seven. years. >> coming up on eight. Yeah. Eight years. >> Yeah. It'll be eight in December. >> That probably helped a lot to be away. from everything to for you to achieve. that. >> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I was. still doing things to, you know, just. kind of stay in the mix a little bit. and, you know, I do signings, I do. speaking engagements, do stuff like. that. But it was also like it's like as.

soon as I quit drinking all my kids. started showing up again. >> and you know Sam and Lola were living. there and then they they they'd cycle. back with Denise and then Bob and Max. would show up and then they Brooke would. come back and like okay so he he's going. to be here and then Lola would show back. up. So my house was kind of like. >> it's kind of like this it was like a. clubhouse you know. Um, and I write in. the book that my that that that my. vacancy sign, you know, for for those. children um always always hangs facing.

out, you know. So it was, you know, being being called to a to to a much. more responsible and complicated set of. responsibilities and and and order, you. know, and just having to do stuff that. they they didn't care about, you know, a. a writing of a show or response to a. movie or any like popularity or or IMDb, you know, stuff. they they were just. like, you know, with the basic needs and. getting to school and help with this.

And so it was really cool to like. suddenly just be that that's the only. stuff that that that that mattered to. the people that matter the most. M. >> and so um and and yeah, but you're right. that that none of that could have. happened if I was away on location or. having to be at a studio. >> every week or. >> but um yeah, I think it's I it was about. the time that it that it created,

>> you know. So um. >> and and it it's interesting that that. I'm not I'm not like I'm not looking at. this as a as a comeback, you know. um. kind it's it's I think it's a reset. I. think it's a reset, you know, and and I. didn't I didn't um I didn't rely on. anything that I'd done before. Never. written a book. Never done a. documentary, you know, but to come back. with two projects that um everybody. seems to be really excited about.

>> Documentary is very entertaining. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> It's very entertaining. It's it's really. well done. Like the way it's put. together and it's just. >> so the stories are [ __ ] bananas. It's. so. >> it's so bananas. It's the the whole. thing was just so nuts. But you know, like I said, everybody loves the story. of someone getting their [ __ ] together. And that's a great accomplishment of. being sober for almost eight years. It. really is. >> Thank you. Thank you. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. And you know, it's um people are. going to yell at me because of how I I.

deal with that with the AA in the book, and that's fine. I just speak to my. personal experiences. I'm not I'm not. >> How do you deal with it? >> Um that I I I tried it for a long time. I I for a combined 21 years um and just. decided that that I had to give this. give this a go on my own. >> So, you just do it completely on your. own. You don't have any uh person do you. call or any? >> No. I mean there's people that that are. sober that I still talk to and see.

>> But you don't have a sponsor or. something. >> I don't I don't No. >> No. Um I. >> And it does help some people. >> Of course. And that's why I don't want. to say that it's I I'm not recommending. that this is another but. >> you're just saying your truth. This is. how you do it. I had a very good friend. who was a alcoholic who quit one day. He. crashed his car, ran from the cops on. foot, got arrested, and then he's like, "What am I doing with my life? I'm. done." And he quit that day.

>> That that there then never had a drink. again. I knew him for 20 years after. that. >> It happens. It can happen. Yeah. Yeah. But I but I I think that I that I do. have the experience of all of that time. in and around the rooms, you know, and. and and that's not to say that I don't. still remember a couple of nuggets, a. couple of things that still stuck with. me that I still thought you still see as. valuable, >> right? you know, but um it's there. there's there's a line in the book that. it's it's it's it's hard to ask for help.

when when somebody else has raised your. hand for you, >> you know, interventions, you're pulled. into a thing, you're told to do, you're. just all you're doing is just counting. the days. >> Yeah, that's a part of the documentary, too. When they the first intervention. when you got brought into a room and. everybody's sitting there waiting for. you, you thought it was a party. >> Well, yeah. I mean, I was a little. suspicious because it's 9:00 a.m. >> Why is dad having a 9:00 a.m. birthday. party, right? >> Unless we're going to Magic Mountain, right? That's usually the time you.

leave, >> right? >> That's easy for a seven-year-old, right? >> Right. >> Um Yeah. No, that was that was wild. Um. that is something that I can still see. as it happened on the day. really. >> turning that corner in the hallway into. my parents' living room and like. >> and my brain is still trying to turn it. into a birthday party. My brain or. insisted that that's what we're there. for, you know? >> That's funny. >> And it just when it starts to dawn on. you, like, have you ever taken a sip of.

something that was in the wrong bottle, >> but your brain saw the label and so your. it takes your body like a half a second. >> Yeah. to catch up to That's not Those. don't match. >> Those don't match. >> Yeah. Um, yeah, I have a story about. that, but I probably shouldn't tell it. on here, but um, yeah. And. >> so that one didn't work. It didn't work. that way. You had to do it on your own. >> It it worked for a year. It worked for a. year, but then like as is in the in the. dock, I'm at I'm at Cage's house and I I.

on on the anniversary on the one year, I. find that beer in his fridge. >> Oh. >> I'm like, well, that's there for a. reason. Yeah. >> You know, he's just caused us caused us. to celebrate. That's not an accident. >> Yeah. And just didn't even think twice. >> Wow. >> Just was like, "Ah, finally." Boom. >> And now we're off to the races. >> We're off to the races. Yeah. >> Wow. How did you get sober this time? >> I um I I'd gotten off the drugs.

Gotten off the dope. But you when I say. dope, that's always coke. Never heroin. Was never never a heroin guy. I I'd been off that geez probably over. 10 years, you know, and so I mean o more. than 10 years like sitting here today. So I had I had I hadn't [ __ ] around. with any of that [ __ ] for. >> a few years and I was just I was I just. committed to drinking, you know, and. then found that to be like the most. unmanageable.

drug um that that I've ever tried to. navigate. Drinking. drinking. Yeah. Drinking. >> more than cocaine. >> Yeah. Because there's never a time when. you can't get it, you know, and and when. I had made the decision that I Okay, I'm. just going to drink um I treated it like. like I did drugs, you know. Yeah. >> But it um. >> it's it's it's it's really kind of it's.

it's very accepted and it's it's it's. it's very socially ingrained, you know. It's like it's it's any Yeah. It's. always Miller time. >> Yeah. You want to smoke a joint some in. front of someone, they might be like, "Hey, what are you what's going on. here?" You want to have a drink in front. of someone. Completely normal. Everyone. does it. >> Sure. Yeah. Um but so um. I I knew the way my body was starting to. react and that the way I was starting to. feel and and and just it it just I I I.

couldn't feel it how I used to even at. like really like powerful. doses, you know? I just could. And that. that that got depressing. That that. wasn't like I'll just drink twice as. much now. That was like, damn. The thing. I relied on is now just like told me, >> yeah, >> yeah, it's no too much of a tolerance. >> Our relationship is now different, you. know. >> Yeah. And so there was a day and it's.

it's it's in the book and and I I you. know, I was a morning drinker. I I. loved, you know, spiking my coffee. That's like for me it was like the best. time to drink. I mean, you're not going. to get [ __ ] done the rest of the day, but that's when I felt it. That's when I. could still feel it was in the morning, you know? So, I'm on like my third. Macallen coffee or whatever. And my. daughter Sam. >> like calls from she's at the house and. calls and says, "Hey, um, what time are. we leaving?" Like to to go where? She.

had a hair appointment and it was a. Sunday, I think, or a Saturday. And I've. never ever mixed the cops and the wheel. ever. I've never had a DUI. >> How about that? >> That's awesome. >> That's pretty good, right? I just I just. decided like a long time ago, like when. I was like 17, that that was never going. to happen. >> Good for you. >> And I was living in a limo back then. There was, you know, the occasional cab.

But these days, these days to get busted. for drinking and driving with the. available transportation. >> that is literally 15 choices in your. hand, right? It's there's no excuse, >> right? >> And so I call I called Tony. I said, "Tony, you know, I can't drive. You got. to help me get Sam to this thing.". >> And and so he was like, "Oh, I'll be. right." He was there in 20 minutes. We. got her to the appointment. It went. great. And there was there was a moment. in the car driving back and and um I I I.

describe it in the book, you know, and I. I could see her in two mirrors, the. visor and and the side view. And she was. just kind of sitting back there. And. I I'm not saying that I know exactly. what she was thinking, but I could feel. what I what I'm pretty sure she was. And. it was just this thing about um you know. why it's yeah it's cool that dad did. this but why why isn't dad driving again. >> right. >> you know why why is there always.

disappointment. >> yeah and it's not nothing with Tony you. know he's been around forever and you. know and. >> and and it was so we got. >> we got back from that and and and I and. it was there was something that I. couldn't shake it was something that. stayed with me just the images of her. this little 13-year-old y old kid in the. back seat and her dad can't even take. her to like a like just a basic. >> just like up the highway to a hair. appointment like that that got that was.

complicated, >> you know? Yeah. >> And I was like, what am I doing? >> And then I I just sat I I sat inside of. that for a while because it didn't feel. good. And I and I thought, okay, what. can I do to not to stop feeling like. this? The math is pretty simple at that. point, you know. Yeah. >> And um I wasn't doing going to do rehab. I wasn't going to do a big dramatic. you know life. turnaround or I was just going to just.

make a decision and stick to it. >> Mhm. >> And you know I took a few volume drank a. few beers and then. b the next day just woke up and said I'm. done and didn't care. I didn't I made a. decision. I wasn't going to care how I. felt physically. was just gonna like. just. >> grit and bear it. >> Yeah. >> How long did it take before you felt. okay? >> About three days. >> The story I had written that was gonna. be a month was just like that that that. that was fake. And it was and so and.

then it just coincidentally. um it happened to be my oldest daughter. Cassandra's birthday when I quit. December 12th, you know. It was just. like okay that's all aligned. Um and. then um then something else happened. after that because everybody's going to. get a little squirly like you put. the problem with guy like me is that and. people like me is you're able to put.

things back together really quickly. >> Right. Right. >> And and kind of just kind of reassemble. the pieces. >> so you're not as scared to go off the. rails. >> Right. Right. Right. And um and so then. I got a call um this is the post, you. know, already had HIV for for several. years at this point. I get a call that. there's a new medicine, right? This is. about a month after the SAM thing, right? And they're like, "Look, we want. you to try this thing because it's it's. it's a much smaller cocktail. It's much.

less toxicity and and no very few side. effects. We think you're going to do. great on it." Right? They said, "But you. can't drink on it." The other one you. could drink your [ __ ] face off like. like you could you could drink like a. pirate on the other one, which they. shouldn't have told me that you can, >> you know. And so, um, so I said, "Okay, great." So, I tried that one and it, you. know, it was working great, but they. said, "Okay, if you can just stay off.

the booze, um, it's going to keep. working. the light light like it is, you know.". So, then this other thing showed up in. addition to that, like just. >> in in concert with it. So, now I had a. couple things going on, you know. Let's. keep this thing this this uh evil. stowaway is what I like to call it. Let's keep that thing in the, you know, at bay. >> Uhhuh. >> And and let's you you know re rebuild.

every relationship that matters in your. life, you know, while you're still here. >> Did you have a revelation after a while. after you were sober for a while where. where you stop and think like why was I. getting so [ __ ] up? like what was I. what was I trying to avoid or what was I. trying to enhance or what what was the. purpose like what was I what what. bothered me so much that I couldn't be. sober. >> interesting yeah yeah um. I think for yeah it it I think it was.

more avoid earlier like or earlier in. life like avoid the pressures of fame. avoid the the fears of of commitment or. relationship or or being uh exposed as a. [ __ ] fraud at some point, you know. Um I think that was earlier. Um and I. think enhance came later that that um. trying to just make situations just feel.

more exciting or cooler or or. >> more, you know, sexier or. >> you know what I'm saying? Like like. Yeah. But it's interesting that that you. presented both sides of that, you know, avoid enhance. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. I I I I relate to both, you know. Um. >> Yeah. I think that's a good thing to. tell people, too, because uh everybody. wants to hear the drug. Like Bill Hicks. had a great joke about nobody ever hears. uh great drug stories,

>> right? >> You know, you only hear the bad ones, you know, and it is true, but the reason. why people do it is because it's fun. like it can ruin your life, but it's. also really fun. That's why people do. it. >> Sure. >> This is It's important for people to. know because you don't want them to. think you're lying to them, you know, and for them to hear you sober and happy. and go, "Okay, that's possible. You can. get there because this guy is admitting. what getting high was." You know, like.

there's a there's a scene in the. documentary where you're talking about. the first time you smoke crack or this. girl's giving you a [ __ ] while you're. smoking crack and it was like the. greatest feeling of all time. >> Yeah. >> Like Yeah. Like I think that's important. to say. >> That hasn't been topped. >> I I probably shouldn't say that. I don't. care. I don't care. >> Yeah, >> that hasn't been topped. >> Have you ever heard Hunter Biden talk. about crack? >> I haven't. No. He was on that channel 5. show and uh he gives this ode to crack.

>> that made me want to immediately go. smoke crack. Seriously? >> Yeah. Cuz Hunter Biden's a very smart. guy. Um I don't think people think of. him that way because of the laptop. thing, but he's very intelligent, >> right? >> And um very articulate. So when he's. explaining like the effects of crack and. how different it is and how incredible. it is and the euphoria of it and it's. like he's literally saying that he's. like getting the itch while he sitting.

there sober talking on his sobriety. trying to keep it together after all. publicly shamed for being out of control. and telling talking about crack like a. lover that you lost in a a drowning. accident. >> Wow. It's It's crazy. >> I get that. I get that. That makes. sense. >> I bet you do. >> There's a moment in the dock where I. tell this the Sandy story. >> Yeah. >> And I say, "Wow, that one actually got. me kind of.

>> I could feel that." Yeah. Yeah. >> Um. >> that's the problem. The problem is it's. great. >> That's the problem. Yeah. >> Yeah. The problem is. >> Did you And no, you don't have to Did. you ever try it or No, >> no, I never even did Coke. >> Oh, you never Oh, nope. Okay. Okay. No, when I was in high school, I have a good. buddy of mine and his cousin was selling. coke. Okay. And his cousin, who was. super normal, I knew him forever, great. guy, >> super cool guy. All of a sudden, he. became weird and pale and lost all this.

weight. And it was like he got bit by a. vampire. And him and his girlfriend were. selling coke and they would just watch. TV and do coke. Wow. And they had like. this attic apartment. And it was like he. had gotten bit by a vampire. That's how. it felt like to me. I was like, he just. lost his whole life to Coke. And then I. saw some other kids that had Coke. problems around me where they were just. dying to get Coke. >> And I was like, this is a bad drug. And. back then, I think it was actually Coke,

you know? I don't even know. >> At least ate like 80% of it. Yeah. >> In the 1980s, I don't know if they were. cutting it with anything. >> But I made a decision at one point in. time in my life. No, I don't want to. have nothing to do with that one. That. one seems to rob people's lives. >> Wow. And you just stuck to that? >> Yeah. It just seemed to me like that one. can make you a loser. >> And then did you roll in circles over. the years where it was prevalent or or. >> I knew some people that did get did coke. and it never worked out well? I didn't. know anybody who did Coke who like kept. their life together. Everybody who did.

Coke was like barely together, barely. hanging on, always off the rails. right. there. I think there's like one guy. >> one guy out there, some superhero pieces. that maintained it all those years was. was Jack Nicholson. >> Oh, yeah. >> I think he I think he's the only guy, >> right? >> I mean, do we know of anybody else? >> Well, they might not be public about it, >> right? >> You know, >> but what about the rumors that that that. Jack always traveled with like a doctor? >> Have you ever heard this [ __ ] Have you. heard these stories?

>> No. >> No. >> No. >> Oh, yeah. Yeah. That he had a doctor. that that that carried his coke or. distributed. >> That's amazing. >> And only gave him just just what he. needed. >> Oh, >> yeah. Now, I don't know. I mean, movie. star [ __ ] right there. Exactly. >> You got a doctor with a [ __ ] leather. satchel to carry your coke around. >> Yeah. And he's just he's just close. >> I'd make him wear a stethoscope. everywhere you go, bro. >> Has to. >> You need to have a stethoscope on. Everybody's got to know you're legit. >> Yeah. But that's like that's one of the. great like 80s rumors about Jack.

>> That's funny. I never heard that some. guy. >> that makes sense. >> But then you'd be around Jack. I was. only around him a few times, but then. then, you know, he was cool as hell and. you're always kind of looking like, "All. right, who's the bagman? Who's this guy? Where is he?". >> You know, or who's the bagman for that. night, you know? >> Yeah. >> Like, was it a team of doctors that. rotated? >> Dangerfield party till the end. >> He uh he kept that trailer rolling. >> Yeah, he did. >> We lived We lived in the same building. for a while. You in Dangerfield?

>> Yeah, we lived in It's that building in. the book called the Wilshire on. Wilshire. >> Oh, wow. >> And I I gosh, I maybe saw him twice. >> I got in the elevator with him one time. >> and and we we'd seen each other out but. never really had like an elevator. moment, you know, and he goes, "Hey, kid. How you doing? You look great." And. he's like he goes say, "Hey, what?" He. goes, >> "Look at that. You guys together." Wow. But in the elevator, >> look at Rod. He looks funny just in his.

photo. >> Just Yeah. >> Just in the photo, you start laughing, >> doing nothing. >> He was so good, dude. >> I I can't tell you what happened that. night. I don't know where we were, but. it looks like the jacket is definitely. circa 8990. The um that looks like a backstage. something that's on my jacket, right? Yeah. >> Probably at a Poison concert or. something, >> perhaps. So, we're in the elevator. He says, "Hey, kid. What are you? What are you, Puerto Rican?" Right? And I and I said,

"No, I'm I'm I'm SpanishIrish." And he. says, "Ah, you don't know whether to. start a parade or start a war." And it's. like doors open and he he just walks. out. He just had that on standby or or. built it in the moment. >> He probably built it in the moment. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> And I was just like, so I can't really. ever describe my heritage without. hearing his voice, you know, start a. parade or start a war. >> That's funny. >> And I'm just like, wow. Just left me. with that gold, you know?

>> We have his handwritten notes at our our. comedy club in the green room. >> Yeah. For one of his tonight show. appearances. We have his handwritten. notes framed of all the stuff he's going. to talk about. >> Okay. >> It's pretty cool. >> Wow. And and and would he would he stick. to. >> Yeah. Yeah. It's like his jokes and he. had like the punchlines for like. accented bold letters. >> Oh, seriously? >> Yeah. He wrote it all out darker. >> He was he was like super organized. >> Yeah. Super organized. >> Well, he he stopped doing standup for a. long time and he was selling aluminum. sighting and then he made it again when.

he was much older in life. He came back. and wow. >> the thing that happened was from the. time he stopped doing standup to when he. went back to having a regular job, he. never stopped writing jokes. Like his. brain just worked that way. So he was. just always writing jokes. So when he. came back, >> sitting on a treasure trove. >> Wow. >> Yes. And he just [ __ ] stormed the. gates. When he came back, everybody's. like, "Where's this guy been?". >> That's amazing. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> And then he became huge back to school. and the Rody Dangerfield HBO comedy. specials and. >> Yeah. >> It's epic. Yeah.

>> Oh, he's one of the all time. >> So he came back as doing standup. >> I think he was in his 40s. >> Got got some heat again. And that that. activated the films. >> Yeah. Well, the standup, he didn't have. any heat before, but when he quit, you. know, he was just like kind of like. getting by and doing all right and got a. job. Quit. >> I think he might have quit for 10 years. >> Wow. >> Yeah. And then the whole time he's. writing and then he's like, "Fuck it. I. got to do this." And then got back into. comedy. >> Wow. >> I hope I'm not [ __ ] that story up,

but I think I'm I think I'm accurate. with that. See if you can find it. Make. sure that's true. I'm 90% sure that's. true. But I know that he didn't make it. until he was in his 40s. And uh I told this the other day, but. I'll tell it again. I used to work at. Greatwood Center for the Performing Arts. in Mansfield, Massachusetts. I was a. security guy there. Okay. And uh I was. backstage, well by the by the outside of. the backstage. And Ronda Dangerfield. would go on stage completely naked with. a bathrobe on. That's what he would. wear. And he was wearing a bathrobe.

backstage with slippers and just walking. around. I was like, "This guy's wild.". And they're like, "He goes on stage like. that." And I'm like, "Shut the [ __ ] up.". >> Was it partially closed at least or it. was just wild? >> Yeah, it was closed. He wouldn't let. everybody see his dick. But if you went. in the green room, you were seeing his. dick sitting there. He would just sit. there. His dick would be hanging out. He. didn't care. Uh struggled financially. for nine years. At one point performing. as a singing waiter until he was fired. before taking a job selling aluminum. siding in the mid-50s to support his. wife and family. He later quipped, "So.

in the 1960s, he started reviving his. career.". >> Oh, damn. >> Yeah. So somewhere close to 10 years, still working as a salesman by day, he. returned to the stage performing at. hotels in the Catskills Mountains, but. still finding minimal success. He fell. into debt, about $20,000 by his own. estimate, could get booked. Uh. Dangerfield came to realize what he. lacked was an image, a well-defined. onstage persona that the audience could. relate to, one that would distinguish. him from other comics. After being.

shunned by some premier comedy venues, he returned home where he began. developing a character for whom nothing. goes right. Isn't that crazy? >> Wow. >> Wow. >> Damn. >> Oh, look at this. During Royy's comeback. bid, who's Roy? >> He was that he said uh when he was 19, he was Jack Roy. >> Oh, he had to change his name. He had to. become Rodney Dangerfield this year. >> People recognize him. >> Wow. >> I'm going to use that checking in at. hotels from now on. Wanting to. distinguish himself from longtime.

patrons who might have remembered him. from the 1940s, Roy asked club owner. George McFaten to change his name, he. came up with Rody Dangerfield. Wow. He didn't want people to remember. him as Jack Roy from back in the day. He. didn't like his old act. >> Wow. >> Wow. He said, "I don't know where it came. from." McFaten may have taken it from. the Jack Benny program on NBC radio. which first used Rodney Dangerfield as a. character's name in 1941. Ricky Nelson.

also the used the pseudan pseudonym in a. 1962 episode of The Adventures of Azie. and Harriet. Wow, that's crazy. >> Ed Sullivan show 1967. >> Wow. That's when he popped again. >> That's amazing. >> That's nuts. >> Wow. Go get him. >> Yeah. Maybe he didn't know whether to start a. parade or start a war. >> He was a fun guy. I knew a lot of people. who knew him. I didn't get a chance to. meet him. I I saw him once at the laugh. factor. I ran into him. I said hi. But.

that was it. I never really got a chance. to talk. >> So, you did have a have a moment. He had. a moment. Okay. Okay. >> It was He was uh just leaving the stage. He was outside and he had some uh. >> Thank you. >> hot milk with him. >> Awesome. Thank you. >> I was like, you go, Rodney. >> Why not? Why not? I think it was probably his wife. He's. his wife is uh who donated us these uh. these um handwritten notes and also the. photograph of them too. It's pretty.

cool. It's just there's a few guys like. that that you know without them you you. always wonder like where would comedy. be? Like where would it ever turn up? Like so many people like Prior and him. and. Lenny Bruce so many people that just. like changed everything. >> Carlin. >> Carlin. Yeah. Yeah. So many people just. change Kenison. They just changed the. whole thing. >> But Dangerfield was one of the rare ones. that introduced new comics to people. Like those that's where everybody found.

out about Kenisonson. So everybody found. out about Dice Clay, Don Marera, >> Lenny Clark, all these guys. Robert. Shiml, they all started out on the. Rodney Dangerfield HBO comedy specials. >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> So he he would have like. >> he would like have his favorite. comedians. Wow. >> He would just have like a show where he. would like introduce his favorite. comedians, >> but he'd have to scout them at the. clubs. >> He would go see them. >> So, he'd just go out. >> and he had his own club in New York. City, Fields. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> But he was, you know, he was interested.

in promoting comedy, too, >> you know? Just a [ __ ] amazing guy. >> That's such a cool moment you had with. him. I can still I can see it. I mean, it's. like it's there's nothing tricky about. that memory, you know. >> What was it like being with your dad. while he was filming Apocalypse Now? >> It was it was it was a lot of that in. the book. How old were you? I was I was. I went there as a 10-year-old. >> Wow. >> Uh yeah, I had my 11th birthday there.

>> Um spent a a combined total of eight or. nine months there and that that was uh. going back and forth, you know. Um it. was uh it was just it was it wasn't just. another country. It was another planet, >> you know. Um, we'd seen, you know, different parts of the world traveling. with him, you know, Mexico, uh, Italy, uh, Switzerland, Germany, places like. that, you know, but then you get to the. Philippines and it was just, um,

you just got a sense that, um, wow, th. this is all going on at the same time. that we've been in Malibu, like, >> right, >> kind of, you know, having fun and and. just doing. cool [ __ ] And that and so you visit a. place like that and you get in the. middle of it and and and engage in in in. this entirely just this this. just just a new such a surreal reality.

Um and then oh wait a minute, they're. here to make a movie and it's about a. film that uh it's it's it's about a it's. a film about a war that that end barely. ended like a year ago, >> right? Yeah. 14 months ago when did. Saigon fall? It was 75, >> right? >> I think so. >> Yeah. And there I mean it was like right. at the tail end of it. Um and so. yeah, it was uh we you know we were able. to do enough stuff like recreationally,

you know, that there was a lake and you. could water ski, you could fish, you. could do those kind of things if you. didn't want to go to the set with dad. But once you went and saw the set where. dad was, you didn't give a [ __ ] about. water sports or fish or anything because. what what what what they' built and and. what they were trying to create was uh. was was mindblowing. because you know Copela built Kurt's. compound out of practical materials.

It wasn't like you know like like. plaster covered chicken wire and rebar. These were like, you know, two-tonon. boulders. >> Yeah. >> They brought in and started stacking in. the jungle. Uh and then, you know, then. a lot of it would start sinking. Couldn't build a foundation. in a river bank. Right. >> Right. >> Um but then just the mix of people and. the talent and Dennis Hopper and Brando.

and Duval and and just it was every day. felt completely unique. you there there. was not there was no you you'd go to the. set and you were going to see something. completely different than what you saw. the day before. >> It was it was wild. >> Wow. >> Yeah. And and I I gravitated towards. this gentleman named Fred Blau who I. mentioned in the book. He was the he was. the key makeup artist, you know, FX guy. And so he was building all the.

prosthetics for all the carnage you see. in the movie, you know. you know, so I'd. walk into a shop and there be arms and. legs and heads and but I knew it was all. fake, you know, as a 10-year-old when. you start seeing how it's made and and. you know, so so gore um I think I write. in the book um was never gore in movies. was was never emotional. It it was it. was technical, >> you know, and but but but still kept me. really curious about about how it was.

done and and just the the the the the. artisans behind it that that could. create those effects. >> How long were you over there for? >> Uh total of eight months. >> Wow. >> Maybe nine. Yeah. And it was it was. three 10 years old. >> Yeah. It was three at first and then. maybe four at first and then we went. back and then dad has the heart attack. and then we went back and stayed for. like another four four months. Yeah. So, um yeah, it was and and people say, "So,

you know, growing up on sets, you must. have like dreamed about being an actor.". I'm like, "Yeah, until I got to the set. then almost killed my dad." You know, that's not a job you're just going to. like wrap your arms around and say, "When can I start?" you know. >> Yeah. >> Um but it also um it it it ju just the. scope of the film making was really. exciting and and you know I didn't. really understand it as a 10 or 11 year.

old. Um, but I knew I I I knew there was. something about it that that that that. required a a much, you know, closer look. and and I had a very keen interest in in. just, you know, what it what it what. what what what would it take to to like. build this, you know, this reality, this. fake reality. Oh, but wait, the subject. is based in reality, but everything else. around it is fake. So.

>> that's a very strange experience for a. 10-year-old. >> It is. Yeah. >> On such a grand scale. >> Exactly. >> When it becomes what Apocalypse Now. became, >> right? >> Because it was like a culturally. defining moment. >> Yeah. >> I mean, it and it's a movie that. it kind of eclipses. all other war movies. >> It does. >> It really does. >> It does. Yeah. I don't I don't think. there's been a film like it uh before or. since. I think um.

>> No, it's a true masterpiece. >> It really is. Yeah. And and and there's. no computers. There's nothing generated. It's all had. to be there on the day. And when you. watch that the the. >> you know when what when when when. Kilgore takes the beach head. >> that chopper assault, I mean, when you. look at the just what they had what they. committed to. >> Yeah. >> to bring that to the screen, it's just. it's impossible. And then you you you see some of the. documentary stuff about he was like.

those were on loan from the Philippine. army and then like midday they had to go. fight the rebels somewhere else and they. told Francis we got to leave now with. the choppers and he's like I have 18. cameras set up the whole the river is. filled with bombs. Where are you going? We'll see you tomorrow. >> Wow. >> Stuff like that. Yeah. >> Wow. >> Pretty wild. >> Yeah. But that must have like. for you like to eventually become an. actor in platoon that had to be kind of.

surreal. >> How does that happen, >> right? >> How does that happen? >> How does that happen 11 years later? >> Yeah. Yeah. Or or 10. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Cuz I did I did platoon at 20, >> right? >> Yeah. So, how do I go back to the same. country. >> 10 years later? >> 10 years later with the same. subject. >> Right. >> Right. narrate the [ __ ] thing. and. then it it it's elevated to be on par. with the one that only films that gets.

mentioned in the same breath as. Apocalypse Now when it comes to war. films. >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm a much bigger fan of. Apocalypse than Platoon. And that is. primarily about just the the scope and. the complication and and just what you. know um uh. uh difficulty factor. >> Yeah. >> Difficulty factor. It took forever. Yeah. >> How many years did it take? >> Um. >> it was like eight or nine years, right?

>> It I I don't know when uh Francis. conceived it. Um, it came out in 79. I think it did it. come out in August of 79. >> How many Let's just Google how many. years? >> August 79. >> How many years did it take to make. Apocalypse Now? >> Cuz I think it went way over budget, right? >> Oh, it did. Oh, yeah. And by today's. standards, that's like a, you know, that's like a Fox Searchlight budget,

>> right? >> You know, >> and Lawrence Fishburn was like what? How. old was he at? >> He started the film at 14. graphy started March of 76. >> and it came out in 79. >> Originally due to be released uh on. Copa's 38th birthday of April 77. So it. took two extra years. >> Wow. And imagine. >> So when was it when did the the project. start? >> I mean varying times of discussions. Casting started February 76 is when.

Steve McQueen dropped out. So thelight. >> So it's not as many years as I thought. it was. They shot with Harvey Keitel for. a few weeks as Willard. >> Did you know that? Really? No. >> Yeah. Yeah. And um then Francis, it just. was he he made the wrong choice. Harvey. was doing it, you know, whatever he. could, but Francis just saw it. differently and. >> had met dad during the Godfather. auditions. >> and said, "Let me meet with Marty.".

>> Wow. You can tell people um that don't. really know my dad that well call him. Marty. I run into people in the street. and they're like, "Hey, give give Marty. my best." And I'm like, "Who in the [ __ ]. is Marty?". People call him Martin. No, they know. I'm better, you know. Um. >> Well, people that pretend to know. someone always like to throw a Y on the. end of it. Makes it look tight. >> Interesting, >> you know. >> Yeah. So, I would be like Chucky. You're still Charlie, right? But I would.

be like Joey. >> Joey. My gosh. I could never think of. you as a Joey. >> Yeah. >> No. But but imagine this with. Apocalypse. Um that um so I spend that. much time. There's all that [ __ ] that. happened. I even brought home like props. and things, you know, severed hands and. if jewelry and all this cool [ __ ]. right? And all these great stories and. then didn't have anything tangible to. back any of it. I mean, mom took a lot. of photos, but like nobody could go to. the theater and then see, oh yeah, Charlie talked about that. Oh, yeah. He.

tal he was there that day. Everybody had. to wait. And when you're that age, you. know, waiting two or three years, like. waiting a decade, right? >> Mhm. >> So, that was that was kind of a trip. >> Um, but when I saw it at the Dome in 70. millimeter, you know, um, and it's like, man, when those choppers when you hear. them, when you hear just they're they're. they're all around you. Um there there a. film will never open like that again and. have that kind of an impact. Did I mean.

did you see it at the dome when you. first saw it? >> No. No. I don't remember where I first. saw it. I first saw it I think on a. regular TV at home. >> Oh [ __ ] Okay. >> You know because I was too little to. watch it in 79. Is that what it was? >> Um maybe I saw it when it came out on. HBO or something like that for the first. time. When I really got into it was when. I got a home theater and I got surround. sound and I got Apocalypse uh Redo, the. Apocalypse Now Redo, the like the new.

newly mastered one. >> Got it. Okay. >> It's [ __ ] sensational. >> So, you have you finally had that. experience. >> Oh my god, it was so good. I was like, this movie is wild. It's so well done. and it's just so epic. Like for you to. have been there live while they were. putting that together and then to see it. all pieced together and I mean. >> that had to be an insane experience. >> Well and and and a lot of it was a. surprise seeing it on the screen because.

like I talk about in the book not so. much in the dock. It was hard to get. close to the action on Apocalypse. because of the way the sets were. constructed because of the way you know. Francis had everything lit. Um, it was. super claustrophobic like in, you know, Curts's Temple and Compound and places. like that. Um, and and um, it was also. [ __ ] dangerous to be on that set, >> right? >> You know what I'm saying? Snakes and. [ __ ] and just like. >> a lot of weird people, you know? Um, >> and so uh,

>> uh, yeah, Francis was just like, come. one, come all, you know? >> Wow. >> Um, but um, but yeah, so then it's like. I wasn't there for any any of the. chopper assault. Uh, I I was I could see. Hopper at a distance in that outfit with. those cameras walking with dad. I. couldn't hear what he was saying. So to. then see that scene where you know dad. first steps off the boat at the compound. and Hopper has an incredible monologue. >> Yeah. >> You know, you got the cigarettes. That's. what I've been dreaming about. And it's.

just like so to have that that kind of. that that to have been there that long. and still be. a completely fresh cinematic experience. was a trip. Did you ever get imposttor syndrome like. when you were doing platoon? >> Did you ever get like how the [ __ ] am I. here? Because it's so quick between you. being 10 being in the jungle while. they're filming Apocalypse Now to you. starring in Platoon.

>> Had you settled into that or were you. ever like how the [ __ ] do I deserve. this? One of the things that John Crier. says in the documentary. is. >> he might be on his own. It's very. insightful. It's very insightful. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> He said that you probably feel like you. don't deserve all this, so you [ __ ] it. all up. >> Sure. He's not wrong. >> He's not wrong. Um. but and then I I had a comment some. interview the other day and I said, "Well, what the [ __ ] John? You could.

have like laid that on me like, you. know, a couple decades sooner, man. Great advice. However, >> a little late." Yeah. >> Yeah. But you can't tell anybody that. They have to kind of figure it out. >> They do. But the thing about Platoon and. when it happened, um the good news is. that I had done enough film work. Um you. know, not not like super memorable films. except maybe uh parts of Red Dawn I. think are pretty memorable. Um just you. know what the film kind of was, you.

know, what it stood for, what it was. about. Um I think parts of Beller were. kind of memorable. Ferris Beller, right. >> Sure. But um but yeah, so so was so was. just sort of getting um more comfortable. in front of a camera, more comfortable. sort of, you know, being able to think. on film and actually, you know, breathe. on film. >> I know that sounds kind of like actor. schmacktory, but it's actually a thing. because you talk about controlling your.

breath in every other area of life. Sure. Right. And it's the same is true. >> a uh as an actor. >> Yeah, for sure. >> Even doing the show, even doing two and. a half for that first scene, I was I was. usually off. I was usually like about to. make an entrance from somewhere and I'd. be back there chain smoking you Marbor. Reds and just trying to figure out the. first scene. But then when you'd hear. the you'd hear the you'd hear the stage. go quiet, right? Someone yells, you. know, speeding sound market. And then if.

I could get that last breath to go to. the bottom, I knew the first take was going to be. awesome. >> When the breath stopped about like at. the sternum, >> I was [ __ ]. >> Shallow breath. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Cuz then you can't then you're ch then. the thing and then Yeah. And then that. first take is just a pancake. >> Mhm. >> Which sucks because that's the first. time the audience is going to see it. You kind of want that one to be, you. know, if there's if there's a cute girl. in the crowd, that's the one you want. her watching. >> Yeah.

>> Not the second one where she's already. heard the [ __ ] jokes and now you're. just doing whatever, you know? >> Right. Now you're like, "Oh, this show. sucks.". >> Exactly. >> Yeah. The live performance thing is. weird because they don't really do it. anymore. I mean, I don't think there's. very many shows that still do that kind. of a sitcom in front of a live audience, multiple cameras. >> There's very few. I uh I think Tim Allen. show still does. >> What What is that on? Uh, >> is that on Fox? >> I think it's ABC. >> Yeah. >> So, he still does a traditional multi-.

camera. >> Yeah. Yeah. Guy I worked with a friend. of mine is on that writing staff. >> God, they used to be all over the. television. >> I know. >> There used to be tons of them. >> Oh, I think Chuck's new show on Netflix. Um, it's called Leanne. Lorraine. [ __ ]. >> Leanne. >> Leanne. Yeah. Um, I think that that's a. live audience, >> you know. >> Okay. So, they're still doing some of. them. >> Yeah, >> they're fun.

>> It's fun when when it works, you know. >> Yeah. >> It's like it's it's a missing genre in. today's culture. >> You're right. >> It used to be most of what was on late. at night or at night time when you got. when you got done having dinner, you. would sit down and watch Friends or you. would sit down and watch Seinfeld or Two. and a Half Men or. >> Comfort View. Yeah, for sure. >> Yeah. We um my family binge watched uh. Big Bang Theory. I never watched it when. it was on the air. We binge watched it. It's a good [ __ ] show. It's a funny.

show. I dismissed it. >> I was like, "Ah, it's a corny sitcom.". [ __ ] It's a good show. Right on. Solid show. >> Right on. Yeah. That kid kid that that. young man Jim, right, had some of the. most complicated dialogue that anybody's. ever been saddled with ever. >> Yeah. He's the first autistic star of an. action or of a sickoff. >> There you go. >> Yeah. Where you're kind of celebrating. his uh emotional disconnection. >> Yeah. But delivering it like like. Rainman, you know, and just with laser.

laser precision. >> Yeah. It's a really well-ritten show. It's very funny. >> That guy Chuck Lores, how how many. [ __ ] hits? >> That guy's had a ton of hits. >> Yeah. >> Maybe more than anybody sitcom world. >> Probably. Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. Um, they glad you guys are friends. again. >> Yeah. So am I. So am I. No, that that. sucked having that out there, you know. Um, >> you know, I did finally actually. remember that [ __ ] thing. And I'm not.

going to I'm not going to. >> Okay. Yeah. It's the other component to. that freaking tour, to that meltdown, to. that thing. There was a moment when I. was only in rehab for like, I don't. know, three weeks or a month. It wasn't. like one of those extended stays. It was. just like a, you know, just like a the. little quick little. Yeah, like a spin drive, whatever they. call that. Um, >> and I got the call, we want to we want. to renegotiate the giant contract for. season 8 and nine, you know, >> and I I was on the phone. I said, I I.

don't I don't think so. And they're. like, what? You don't think you're going. to get paid? I'm like, no, I don't I. don't think I don't think I don't think. we should do it. I'm not I I think seven. is like, you know, Mantle War 7, some. other cool sevens, you know. I and I I. don't think I think seven is like. plenty. I think we've I think we've told. all the stories that we can mine from. that from that Malibu house on the beach. with those people. They're like, "No, no, you don't understand, man. This is. when it all like this is when it turns. into like a legacy play for your [ __ ]. kids and their kids and.

>> then the part they always leave out is. and and our cut." Yeah. >> And our [ __ ] cut. >> Yeah. That's the big part. >> Yeah. And they're on the phone. >> Yeah. >> And I said on the phone and Mark and I. have talked about that. talked to me on. Mark Burke, my manager. And I said, Mark, if I go back there, man, it's. going to go really [ __ ] bad. I just. know it. He's like, "Well, you're you're. you're projecting that." I said, "I'm. not projecting [ __ ] man. I'm just I'm. just smart enough to know how I feel. about it now. Got a little bit of.

clarity in this month. I'm in the. thing." I said, "If I if I go back. there, I just I got a I got a bad. feeling, Mark. Why going back to work would send you. off the rails?" just that I had run up. against a thing that I I had lost. passion for the show. I'd lost passion. for the process. >> Okay. So that if you went and just did. it just for the money, you would find. some ways to stimulate yourself. >> Exactly. Oh, yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. That that I would have to do. something um to enhance.

>> I said that about a lot of guys that got. caught on shows that sucked. I knew a. lot of guys who got caught on shows. where they were getting paid, but they. did not like the show. And it was like a. bad sitcom and those guys all went. crazy. Those guys all started doing a. lot of drugs or they started spending. too much money or something. They did. something to distract themselves. >> cuz they did not like what they were. doing and they they didn't feel. satisfied, >> right? >> Yeah. But they were getting so much.

money because they're like, "What am I. going to do? I'm getting $100,000 a. week." I'm like, "Oh god.". >> Yeah. >> What do you need to do? You can't quit. >> I was I was making 54,000 an hour. That's pre-taxes. So, was I. >> You said no to season eight and nine. I'd be like, "Do I have to dress?". >> Right. Well, I'll. >> What do I have to do? I. >> Dangerfields Robe at that point. >> Let's go. >> No, but um uh No, that that was after I. I got kind of crowbarred into it, you. know. Well, not crowbar. I had to.

ultimately say yes. I got to own that, you know. But um it was just I was just. the wrong guy in that moment in that. pocket of time to like give that much. [ __ ] money to, man. >> Right. >> You know. >> Right. Right. Right. >> And like I'd buy a bunch of cars and. then invite a bunch of girls over and. then just say, "Pick one.". >> And then you did that other thing where. you had that other show after that that. you got paid like a ton of money in. advance for, right? >> Um you talking about anger management?

>> Yes. Uh, no. I was supposed to get a It. was It was design It was called a 1090. >> Yeah. How scenario how they suck you into that. is they say, "Look, you're not going to. get a ton on the on on the front side, but you're going to be, you know, you're. going to own a third of the show or like. 40 37 38% of the show in perpetuity. So, we're going to do a 100 episodes." And. it's the South Park um uh model. That.

was the first 1090 that really just blew. it up and everybody got [ __ ] rich. So. you do these 10 episodes, you do a 10. episode pilot and then if you hit if if. the average number of those 10 episodes. comes in at like I don't know like a. like a above a four or like a 51 or. something that it's like a share, right? um then it activates the next 90. And so. then you're doing those 90 to have a a. sellable uh uh uh syndication package.

that will just go all over the world and. and you know do what what syndicated. sitcoms do. And so you've done it you. know and you know when you say not a lot. on on the front side you're still you. know still getting a buck 50 an app you. know 200 that's pretty good money right? Um, but it's not but you kind of you. kind of eat it on that side knowing that. it's an investment for the other thing. to to pay gang busters. >> So you did you guys you did the 10.

episodes and then you got to do all of. them. >> Yes. >> So you w up doing a hundred? >> Yes. >> But you did them in a short a short. period of time, right? >> Two and a half years. >> That's crazy. >> I know. I know. Yeah. And I was I was. not ready to go back to work. >> Yeah. And that's the thing I talk about. in the book that the only reason I did. because I I wanted to show those guys. across town that I was hirable again, you know. >> Right. Right. Right. >> And that is not that is not any way to. any mindset to like lead the troops, you. know. And it you know, again, it started.

pretty cool. I did the 10. I was great, you know, doing some pretty good work. and the shows were smart and funny and. and then we got into that 90 and it was. about it was about 20. No, what am I. saying? is probably like like nine or 11. into it. I started feeling exactly the. same [ __ ] that I felt. >> on two and a half. >> going past that point. I knew my. enthusiasm and passion had had a uh had.

an expiration date. You know, you. couldn't manufacture it. >> I I tried, but I couldn't I didn't um I. didn't like the show enough. You know, I. love the people I was working with, you. know, from from the writers crew to the. actors. They were terrific. >> You didn't like the final product? >> I didn't. Yeah. And I didn't I stopped. caring, >> but I still, you know, had enough dough. to keep the lifestyle and all that other. fun [ __ ] going on and just stayed way. too [ __ ] high to really engage in.

this thing. Um, I mean, I was doing this. thing, Joe, where I would I was. partying, you know, hitting the [ __ ]. pipe, either girls or porn or both or. who, you know, whoever showed up. Yeah. [ __ ] Yeah. Hey, come on in. Come on. in. There's plenty to go around. And. then, um, there's this thing I think I I. felt like I was t time traveling from. like 1:00 a.m. to like seven felt like. 11, I don't know, 15 minutes. Whereas,

you know, 9 to midnight felt normal. Wow, we have plenty of time to do. everything. And then like the the the. hours I really needed to like, you know, settle in and enjoy those just vanished. >> And then you're back to work. >> No, I got someone banging on my [ __ ]. door. Dude, you're late. What the [ __ ]. And I'm still [ __ ] sideways. >> Wow. >> So, I'd pop a couple shots or like half. a Xanax or something. And I said, I just. need And I would literally do this. thing. It was a 15 minute, 20 minute nap. where I would just hit the pillow. I try.

to meditate with a body just vibrating. from crack all night. Trying to meditate. >> at that point. I'm trying to [ __ ]. time travel. I'm trying to levitate. right and. >> but I could feel okay I've generated. some calmness. Then then I would hit the. shower and I would I'd be in the shower. and I'd say okay I only have to navigate. from this shower to the next shower and. that's about 11 maybe 12 hours. It was a. shower to shower. Remember that.

commercial like in the 70s? Wasn't there. a [ __ ] like a deodorant or. >> Yeah. Something shower called shower to. shower? Yeah. >> Yeah. Like it lasted from one shower to. the next. >> Yeah. So I'm trying to last from one. shower to the next, man. No [ __ ]. >> And then but I'd get to work and then. have that midday drop off and I wasn't. hitting the pipe at work, but I needed. to keep some some fuel in the engine. So, I'd be, you know, I start drinking. and then, man, people look at sitcoms.

like, "Oh, they're out there having a. fun time." Man, it is super [ __ ]. complicated. Well, you've done them, right? It's like a It's like a dance, isn't it? It's like a uh it's like a. choreographed thing. >> And so, it is hard enough to do and to. do well completely focused and and and. with all your [ __ ] intact, right? you. start getting over here and trying to be. that specific just with marks, with. jokes, with timing, with other people.

>> And then a lot of my energy is going to. trying to disguise like the condition. I'm really in, >> you know, and trying to make excuses. Oh, I had a med mixup today. Med mixup. I'm on two pills. They're the same. [ __ ] thing at the same time every. day. there's no med mixup, you know, it's like what are we doing? And so, yeah, and then that turns into that. thing where you just then they start. getting behind and I would just be like, I'll just sorry for the overtime. We'll.

just pay for it. And, you know, they. should they should have not taken the. money. They should have said, "We're. shutting down. You need to [ __ ] go go. get well or go get just a little better. than what you're showing up as." Um, and. so that show kind of never really had a. chance to be anything really anything. special, you know, because I didn't I. did I didn't I didn't really care about. it. And the thing that sucks about that, looking back, it's like, think about all the energy and the hard.

work that all those other people put. into it and committed to it because I. said yes, >> right? You know, >> and there's also there's a bunch of. people that were rooting for you because. they they saw what happened with Two and. a Half Men. It was a big public. disaster. You leave. Is his career. ruined? Oh, no. Look, he's got another. show. Oh, Charlie's back. >> But did anybody even say, um, okay, so. hold on. What did he do between that. that you know after that last swan dive.

into the volcano that we all watched and. then he's on the he's back he's on. another show like what did he do between. then and there. >> well the narrative on you was as an. outsider was that you one of the rare. guys who could party like that but still. pull it off and have a career. >> right and I think your ex-wife had said. that that she never worried about you. would always land on your feet. >> because you were very talented. And you were also very loved, you know. Thank you. >> Which is one of the reasons why people.

embraced you when you were talking about. how much crack you were doing, >> you know, when you were saying all that. People there was they weren't mad at. you. They're like, "He's [ __ ]. partying." You know, it was it was a. very odd time where so many people who. don't admit that they party, you know, because of their job or because of. whatever, you know, they try to like. keep it hot, you know, hidden under. under wraps, right? and you were doing a. live interview with this lady and you're. you're talking to her about smoking. rocks and and she was flabbergasted like.

you could tell. >> Yeah. >> She did not expect that kind of cander, >> right, >> with discussion of uh illicit drugs, >> right? >> It was just like. >> nobody ever done that before. >> Well, she asked. I mean, >> right. But nobody ever embraced it. >> the way you did, right? Everybody else. is like, well, you know, it was a. terrible time in my life. I was. >> I got so low I was doing crack cocaine. >> Right. Right. Right. It comes from a. place of shame. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> Yeah. >> And you didn't have any shame. >> I didn't. No. >> Because I'd watched something like a.

couple days before I sat down with. Andrea Canning and it was this old. interview with Charlie Gibson on on some. special they did for ABC, right? I don't. even think it wasn't a GMA piece. It was. like a more in-depth. >> one of those exposees they do, you know, and it was me coming out of rehab. And I. I remember watching myself and just. being such a I was like, "That guy's a. [ __ ] [ __ ] man. That guy's a [ __ ]. [ __ ] What's wrong with him? Look at. him. All that shame, all that. embarrassment." Like, "No, no, no. We're. not doing that anymore." So that that.

got locked in. >> Oh, >> yeah. I remember how I I just I remember. how I felt watching me doing it their. way. >> Yeah. >> I was like, "No, no, no." And then, you. know, I got all I got the brain full of, you know, [ __ ] nuclear crazy cream. that I'm [ __ ] you know, just. covering myself in. And uh. that's what 2K is. That's like the. donuts, right? Um. >> right. >> And Yeah, man. And and and you know. where the material came from, right?

Those slogans and all that stuff. >> No. >> Was Brian Wilson. >> from the Beach Boys? >> No, the Brian Wilson pitcher for the. Giants. the the guy they called the. beard. >> Oh. >> yeah. I was on the phone with him like. the day a couple days before that cuz. Tony and I Tony Todd and I were watching. uh baseball highlights and I was like, "Wow, this guy looks this guy's a. [ __ ] trip. Tony, get him on the. phone." Right. The next day I'm on the. phone with him. I think he was just. trying to give me a pep talk. He was. like, "Hey man, just know that guys like. us, you know, we're not we're not we're. not like everybody else, you know, we're.

we're we're different, man. We got we. got you know, we got tiger blood running. through our veins. We got [ __ ] Adonis. DNA. We got uh you know, we're we we we. don't know how to lose, man, because. we're always [ __ ] winning, right? So, I hear all this and he's probably. thinking, "Cool, man. I just kind of. inspired him maybe just to get to the. next moment." You know, that stuff went. in there, man. And it stayed on a. [ __ ] loop. And. >> I sat down and the interview doesn't.

start like that, which is a trip. I'm. trying to keep it together. term trying. to give her the stuff she needs to like. maybe I don't even know what was the. thrust of that story being fired or some. [ __ ] or or. >> I don't remember. >> So, but there's a moment that's not on. film. and Andrea can't deny this. Um she makes. a crack about these two girlfriends that. I'm living with, right? Um and and. expects me to just like br like like let. it just just, you know, brush it off and.

then answer her next question. And I. said, "Hold on a second." I said, "That. was really rude." She's like, "Which. part?" I was like, "What? What you just. how you just address them? You owe them. an apology." And she was like, "Uh, okay. I'm paraphrasing some of this, right? But that this is kind of this is. the tone of it." And so she. >> How did she address them? Um. I I felt like they were dismissed. as just like porn porn chicks, you know,

because one was a porn check, the other. was not. She named Natty. So she kind of. got rolled into that, >> right? >> Unfairly, you know, >> and so so then they, you know, she. Andrea's like, "Oh my god." Okay. Yeah. Know I'm sorry. I didn't mean anything. by that, you know, but I'm over here, you know, with the thing. Um and and I'm. not I'm not letting it go. I I I asked. you to apologize. We should have been. past it. Now I'm stewing,

>> right? Yeah. >> Ramped up now. >> Yeah. Yeah. And that's when it turned. into And then I start hearing Brian's. stuff and I'm like, "I don't know, man. I'm [ __ ] tire blood." And and then it. all just And then it it got away from me. and I and I couldn't pull it back. >> I couldn't pull it back. And then. everybody's like, "Okay, well that was. different. I It's kind of [ __ ]. interesting and unique and whatever, man. Well, um, well, let's just let's. let's, you know, let's just have a quiet.

night and and and and and we'll see how. that plays out, you know." And I wake up. into a world of not not the world I said. good night to six hours earlier. And my. friends are banging on the door, people. are, you know, sending me, you know, videos and stuff. And he's like, "Dude, the [ __ ] the world's on fire with. your [ __ ] man." I'm like, "All right, what does that mean?" Um, and there's. like there's folk songs and rap songs. and people like marching in the streets.

and there's already t-shirts and there's. just it's just it has just gone. It. exploded. >> Yeah. >> And so it's not like I could jump on my. roof with a bullhorn and say, "All. right, everybody. Okay, let's just, you. know, >> UFC fighters were saying they had tiger. blood. They were joking around about. See? Yeah. I mean, it got. it got it got away from you. It. penetrated, man. Yeah. It achieved. penetration. >> Well, that no one had ever done an.

interview like that before. >> I didn't I didn't I Yeah, I I I I wasn't. thinking about that in the moment. I was. just [ __ ] pissed. And I wasn't going. to be [ __ ] Charles from from the '9s, you know? just it was like this whole. convergence of all these elements and. all these emotions and all these. feelings and and also the you know. resentment I had in myself, you know, and just like all right, I'm just going. to pick some targets. >> and.

and and and you know would have been. nice had it been sort of. uh if I could have just sort of been. hurted um just kind of you know away. from it, you know. Have you ever thought. of what your life would be like if you. didn't do that interview? >> I I've started to. No, I've started I've started to try to. walk into that village, right? >> But as soon as I take a look around, none of it really makes sense because.

>> it it's I I I can't really imagine it. >> You know what do you think it would I. mean, what would it's it's hard to kind. of even put those pieces together. I. wonder if you had ever would have gotten. sober. >> Interesting. >> You mean you mean today's sober? Sober. >> Yeah. Yeah. Today's sober. Sober. You. You might have had to have that complete. chaos tail spin. freef fall crash, >> right? >> Publicly, right,

>> to just eventually like gather your [ __ ]. together and go, "Okay, >> right. >> All right. Time to learn and grow.". >> Right. >> Obviously, that wasn't smart. Let's do. it differently, right? >> Let's get it together and step by step, day by day. And look, here you are. almost. >> nine years later. >> Almost eight or eight years later. Yeah. >> That's uh. >> you you always wonder like maybe you. have to have that was your rock bottom. moment and it was public, you know, the. whole world got to see it.

>> Like a full cleanse. >> Yeah. >> Wow. >> Just a purging of all of it. And you. know, and still you have to battle with. the this reinforcement because now. everybody is loving the fact that you. know, you're winning and that you know, you're talking about how much crack you. smoke and how crazy it is and you got. all these hot girls and everybody's. like, he's winning. He's winning. And so. now there's no incentive at all to get. healthy, >> right? >> Which is kind of nuts. And not only.

that, financially you're kind of it kind. of helps you to be like a little off the. rails. It's like you're kind of known. for that, you know, like and then you. have this big tour and everybody's. coming out to see you, >> right? Yeah. >> You know, which was crazy for you to do. Like the first one where you did it. without comedians was just bananas. >> Yeah. I went it was it was a complete. train wreck. Yeah. It was a disaster. But you guys pulled it together and that. was like kind of the story of like your.

career. When things have fallen apart, people want you to pull it together. So. even though you had that disaster show. and everybody knew it was a disaster. show, >> people were still coming out to see the. other ones. >> Right. Right. Right. Yeah. I um I had an. the um option um after the Detroit. massacre um of flying uh to Chicago or. taking the bus, the tour bus, right? And. I said, "Uh, I need I need those seven. or eight hours on the bus." And they're. like, "Why?" I said, "Because I'm going. to rewrite the entire show.".

And I think, um, I think Natty was on. that trip. I think maybe Rick, I know. Shady was on anyway. And I just I just, uh, there was a place, you know, room in. the back. And I just kind of barricaded. myself with a pad of paper and a pen and. just went to town. >> and just sort of started trying to. reshape it. And when I got to Chicago, they were expecting all this, all the. special effects we needed from that gar, you know, all that garbage. I said, 'We. traveled with none of it. I said, 'Here's the new show. >> They're like, "You sure about this?" I'm. like, "Just trust me." And that and.

unfortunately, that's the night where it. got applauded and kept the train on the. tracks was Chicago, you know? But isn't that weird to have had the. wherewithal like in the middle of all. that and they still had enough enough. something enough of that thing to to to. tr to just you maybe that's just pride. at that point. >> certainly was also that's the impact of. public humiliation like. >> thank you enough. >> how about that. >> time to get this [ __ ].

>> how about that. >> get this thing back on track. Yeah. And. it it was it was just it was the curtain. comes up and there's two chairs and I. have a moderator and it's just a. conversation. Imagine that. >> Yeah. >> You didn't reinvent anything. >> No. >> You know, and I Oh. Oh, I wrote a letter. is what it was. Um, dear Chicago. And. it's like this whole thing, you know, including them. Um, and and yeah, so I. got them I kind of got them back on my. side and then we sat down.

>> Yeah. Well, people realized also you. were figuring this tour thing out on the. fly. >> Yeah, it it was essentially it was 21. cities in like 24 days with no act. >> That's what it was, man. >> So, who I know you had Jeff Ross was on. >> Jeff Ross. Yeah. >> Who's great at that. The master at off. the cuff. >> Wow. He showed up and really just put. perfect guy for that. >> He put a shape on it. Yes. And then you.

had Russell on some of them too, right? >> Yes. >> Who's also a master at off the cuff. >> Yes. And he and um he was so relieved. that that the two chairs had shown up. because that's when he joined us in. Canada. >> Ah. >> yeah. No, he was terrific. >> Yeah. Russell was awesome. >> Yeah. Do you know the first night. sitting with him some dude like um. what's like the Canadian version of like. a quarter? What's their dollar a looney? Okay. But that's a dollar,

>> I think. So, >> okay. Is that the heavy one? >> Yeah. Someone threw it at him. >> No, at me. >> Like, we're in the chair for maybe five. minutes and I get from the balcony. I. get hit with one right here. >> Oh. >> And it just it was like getting punched, but like someone with a skinny metal. hand, you know? And uh and I just had to. I had to kind of pause into that. and. and they they got the guy thrown out, but I just thought, wow, I could have. lost an eye. >> Yeah,

>> Russell could have lost an eye and it. was just like, wow. All right, that's. >> also pretty good shot. >> Really good shot. >> Guy throws a looney from the balcony and. he hits it in the head. That's. >> Yeah, that's. >> that's impressive. It is. >> cuz that's not an aerodynamic thing. >> It's not. You No. How you throwing that? >> You have to kind of factor in there a. lot of flipping in the air. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's kind of. like a boomerang or something. >> Yeah. It's a Frisbee. little tiny. frisbee. >> Yeah. So anyway, so that's there were. just moments like that that that I um I. guess just little cosmic reminders that.

not everybody was on my side. >> Right. Right. Yeah. >> Yeah. Which is important, too. >> Hey, can I hit the bathroom really. quickly? Yeah, >> we can actually wrap it up. We're. getting close. >> Okay. >> You want to wrap it up? >> Um can we just touch on a couple things. before we do? >> Absolutely. Take a leak and we'll come. back. >> Okay, cool. >> Should we bring this up? I guess we have. to. So, this just happened. Uh, we just. found out that Charlie Kirk got shot. >> It's [ __ ] awful. >> And is he dead?

>> No, I don't think so. >> That's what was just. >> one of the guys out there just said. confirmed in the lobby was just. >> I was looking I've been looking. I. haven't seen anything that said confirm. >> Whoa. Murder for having a different opinion. from somebody else. >> Yeah. different ideology from somebody. else. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> I mean, I don't know. >> Beliefs that didn't align. >> Yeah. >> I'm sorry.

>> Yeah. >> Rest in peace. [ __ ]. >> news. >> Jesus. 27 years old, maybe. 30. >> Do they even have a a suspect? >> I don't know. I don't That's I don't I. don't I'm literally trying to track it. all on Twitter and it's all. >> [ __ ] [ __ ] Nobody deserves He doesn't. deserve that. Nobody deserves that. >> So So were you saying that MSNBC had a. crazy take on it? >> What was their take?

>> I'm literally just reading Twitter, so I. didn't see the video. I just saw people. talking about tweets of it. I'll pull it. up though. [ __ ]. And even now they could have taken it. down. It was a tweet or a video. >> I don't I so I don't I don't I I'm you. know I'm doing the show while I'm trying. to figure out. >> Right. No, I understand. >> Uh I think they were live on the air and. people clipped the what they were. talking about. >> It's not a tweet. It's not on their.

Twitter account or anything. >> So it's someone's hot take. >> so in the live in the moment. >> Yeah. That's a crazy take. Crazy take is. that what was the take that they. deserved it? >> No. That's why I didn't want to par. >> right. Here. you go. Um, >> Dave Porto reposted this. >> You found it. All right. Here, put it. >> It's only 10 seconds. >> A shooting like this happens. >> You can put the headphones on. You can. hear. >> Yeah. Again, emphasize what you just.

emphasized. We don't know any full. details of this that we don't know if. this was a supporter shooting their gun. off in celebration or so. We have no. idea about. >> That's That's what the crazy thing was. >> Oh, that's it. >> Yeah. If it was a supporter shooting. their gun off in celebration. What? Someone shot their gun off in. Celebration and killed him. That. >> you know, you shoot celebration guns in. the air. >> Oh god. >> Just uh. >> what a crazy take. Like it might not. have been someone assassinating someone. for the wrong opinion.

>> Huh? >> [ __ ]. >> Why does something like that have to be. spun? >> Their ideology. >> No, I know. What I'm just saying it's. like. >> I mean they want to try to pin it on a. Trump supporter with a a crazy Trump. supporter with a gun going wacky. We. don't know if it was a supporter. shooting off a gun in celebration cuz. you know they do that. A lot of folks. are just constantly out there shooting. off guns at large gatherings in. celebration. >> Yeah. Fourth of July you can't leave. your house. You know. >> what the [ __ ]. >> No, that is um that that that's a Wow.

>> There's going to be a lot of people. celebrating this. It's so scary. It's so dangerous too to. to to celebrate or to in any way. encourage this kind of behavior from. human beings. He's not a violent guy who's talking. talking to people on college campuses. Wasn't even particularly rude. He was. tried to be pretty reasonable with. people. >> Everything I saw seemed reasonable. >> He's very intelligent guy. Yeah.

>> You know, whether you agree with him or. don't. And there's a lot of stuff that I. didn't agree with him on. That's fine. You're you're allowed to disagree with. people without celebrating the fact they. got shot. >> But you can't disrespect his passion. >> Yeah. >> Well, what you're supposed to do with a. guy like that if you're opposing him is. debate him, right? >> Have a conversation where your your. argument is more compelling than his. >> Sure. >> That's what people should be. celebrating, discourse. You know, we. used to do that. >> Do some homework and and bring it to the. table. >> Yeah. >> Yeah.

>> It's horrible. It's horrible. This. podcast has been a lot about violence, man. >> It has, but not this kind. >> No, I I'm sorry. Not Not um something so. in the moment right now from someone. this currently current. >> Yeah. >> That that that we see and and. >> are are are you know aware of daily, >> right? Yeah. I mean, he's one of those.

young influencers, right, this time from. the right, who is uh all over social. media, always doing these various shows. and debating people and talking to. people and giving speeches and. >> Sure. >> Yeah. No one deserves this, folks. No one that. has different opinions. No one deserves. that. >> No. >> This is horrible. >> No. >> But I know people are going to celebrate. it. because this is a [ __ ] up time and.

people have really fallen into this trap. of us against them. >> But it's also going to make people not. want to be as courageous or not want to. be as as as as forthright with with the. things they believe. It's going to it's. going to put people on guard. >> It could it also could. >> it could do the opposite. I I I get. that. But there's also going to be that. sort of ingrained thing now. >> You're correct. Yeah. And you know, and. just go, you know, going through the. whole New York thing. I just, you know, sometimes you're, you know, there's a.

there's a crowd and it's all love. It's. all love and all they want is, you know, is is your signature or a photo or this. and that, but there's so much of those. moments where you're spent looking down. >> You're looking down the entire time. >> Yeah. >> And I I don't think anybody wants to. shoot me. I don't I don't think that. that's kind of out in the world, right? Um, but it just it's it's the type of. [ __ ] that just lives in in in the back. of one's mind. >> Yeah. >> Because how could it not? >> How could it not? >> And then and then a thing like today and.

you're like, okay, that that's why it's. in it's it's in the back of our minds. >> Yeah. you know, >> well, it's, you know, when we were. talking about assassinations earlier, whether it's Kennedy or RFK or, you. know, you think of them in the past, you. think of them like. you don't when something happens in the. the current like right now with this one. with Charlie Kirk, it doesn't seem real. >> No, >> it seems very surreal. >> It does. It does. >> It seems like it does. >> It's gonna take a long time before we.

reference this as some something that. happened like he Oh, remember he got. shot and killed? Oh yeah. Like right now. it's just doesn't seem real. It seems uh. it seems so crazy that it just it's not. registering. >> It's not. No. >> Is is is he is he a friend? >> No. Uh I met him once. I met him once at. a gun range of all places. >> Wow. >> Um. >> Wow. >> Yeah.

>> Uh he was a nice guy um when I met him. >> Wow. It's a [ __ ] up time. People are so. divided in this country. So divided. And. there's so many people that love it. They love that we're divided and they. profit off that division. And they stoke. the fires and and they do it for their. own profit. And it's so [ __ ] gross. It's so gross. And to encourage this. kind of thing is really.

one of the most. horrific things that you could do after. someone dies horribly like this is. celebrate. >> It's it's it's it's it's unable. >> should be a wakeup call for everybody. Like this is nuts. This is nuts. >> No, it's it's it's unforgivable that. that that to spend things like that. cuz. the people they're never thinking about. is is is that person's family. >> I think they're just that's just like. default with those. They gaslight you by.

default, >> right? >> So immediately they try to find some. reason why the whatever the the thing is. that's in the news is someone else's. fault, >> right? Of course, >> it's just all gaslighting and that's. what they're paid to do. They're paid. propagandists. masquerading as the news. So weird. [ __ ] No, this is a this is a it's a. it's a dark day. >> Yeah, it is. Well, one of thing two things is going. to happen. Either people are going to. realize how [ __ ] insane this is and.

we have to have a conversation about. being able to have conversations, >> right? >> Or it's going to get a lot worse. That's. what's scary. Scary. This could spark off some kind of. a real violent conflict. >> You know, that guy had a lot of fans. Yeah. >> A lot of people love that guy. >> Yeah, I know. >> And if they find out that he got killed. for something that they vehemently. oppose in the first place, it could send. people over the edge.

>> It could. It could. Yeah. There there. there's always that flashoint moment in. in in in any, you know, in in in. previous times like this. Yep. >> You know, it's there's always that. tipping point moment. >> like like the Rodney King film. Yep. Right. Something just like that's it. >> Yeah. >> You know, this also highlights um just. the little bit of perspective like how. lucky. Trump. >> is was.

>> Oh, yeah. >> You know, and it's just like. >> Charlie didn't get the benefit of a head. turn or a couple of a couple of microns. or millimeters or. you know, and it's just like, wow. Wow. Who who who decides that? >> Yeah. >> You know, that is just there's this. thing. >> the Trump thing is bananas. >> Yeah. But they talk about. >> clips his ear. >> Yeah. Cuz he makes a reference to. something and then it's just Yeah. >> And then it clips his ear where if he.

didn't turn his head, he'd be dead. and it would have been on live on CNN. How do we know more about. an assassination. >> from 1963? >> Yeah. Trump about Yeah. Eight months. ago. >> That one that story is [ __ ]. >> There's a lot of weird stuff in that. story. There's a cell phone that was. traveling because of metadata. They know. a cell phone was traveling from offices. uh outside of the offices of the FBI in. that area all the way to this guy.

multiple times. >> Imagine that. >> He was uh 20 years old. Uh his apartment. was professionally scrubbed. There was. no silverware in it there. He had no. social media presence. He, you know, was regularly training. with uh like military guys. He was. regularly training and shooting. Like. one guy had remembered him from a range. >> Right. >> Right. >> Like what? He was in a Black Rockck. commercial. >> Interesting. >> Two years before. >> Right. >> Like what? >> His his his chosen rooftop is just kind. of between the two quadrants that.

they're assigned to cover. Not only. that, >> it's just it's just a blind spot. >> The the excuse for why they didn't have. officers on that rooftop was it was too. sloped. >> The slope was too steep, which made zero. sense. >> Wow. >> Cuz he climbed up it. He was fine. >> Yeah, he did. >> What the [ __ ] are you talking about? It. didn't make any sense. Not only that, the the one where the snipers were. perched had a steeper slope. >> Made no sense. >> No, >> it was [ __ ] nuts. They found that guy. walking around the the the grounds a. half an hour before the event with a.

[ __ ] rangefinder. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah. If if if you're not if. you're not on a golf course with a. rangefinder. >> Yeah. >> then you you know. >> you're going to shoot something. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. >> That's what they're for. But it's just, man, it's uh. it it it it sucks that that to say. things like, you know, the the the these. are the times we we currently inhabit, you know, and and that that there's.

nothing that is an absolutely factual. statement. >> Yeah. >> And it sucks to have to, you know, >> to to to exist in in inside of that. >> Yeah. >> You know. >> Yeah. It's very strange, man. It's very. strange. >> Very strange. >> It's very strange. >> It's very strange. And you know, we've. talked about it a bunch of times, but it. bears repeating. I think a lot of it is. highlighted by bots. A lot of it is uh. people are being inflamed online by.

people that aren't even real accounts. >> Interesting. You see, I I don't I I. don't study any of that. Um. >> Oh, there's a lot of that going on. I. think it's a giant percentage of all. online discourse where people are hating. and saying mean things about people's. political beliefs or anti-Israel things. or anti- Palestine things or whatever. I. I just think. >> a giant ton of that is foreign foreign. governments who are running these bot. farms. >> Wow. >> And it's been proven. They they know for. a fact. China actually got caught.

recently. What was this the chat GPT. thing? They were using chat they were. using Open AI software. GPT blocked a. bunch of accounts from multiple. countries that had suspicious activity. >> Yeah. And they were commenting on like. blocking of US aid money and a bunch of. different like political subjects. And. but what they're basically doing is just. getting people to fight just that's what. they want. They want constant fighting, constant in constant like we have to. take action. We have to you know this.

constantly stoking the flames. >> Right. Right. Right. Wow. >> So it's not even organic. Some of it's. organic for sure, but a lot of it is. being enhanced by foreign governments. for sure and probably some of it by our. own government. What they did with the. with the Manson family, you think they. stopped there? You think some of that. kind of stuff isn't going on right now. that we don't know about right now. because there hasn't been a Tom O'Neal. to write a book about it? >> Sure. Sure. And then and then we also. never know which stuff was the beta test.

for that, you know, for that for that, you know, specific type of program or. that specific type of op to be rolled. out and like where, you know, okay, let's let's let's see how they react to. this. >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Oh, hell. >> that worked like a charm. Okay, activate. >> more of those, you know. >> Yeah. Jesus. How do we How do we wrap this up on a. positive note? >> I don't think we can. >> No, >> I think it is what it is. >> It is what it is.

>> I think we just have to deal with that. >> Yeah. >> Well, um, listen, man, it was great to. finally actually meet you. >> This was amazing. >> It's a lot of fun. Really enjoy talking. >> Thank you. Yeah. No, I I I think you'll. notice now I I I always need a few. minutes to get warmed up. >> Yeah. >> Get settled in. >> No, you seem cool right off the bat, man. Some great stories, too. Jesus. >> Thank you. I just my sometimes my brain. like we talked about, you know, it wants. to go somewhere else when I was trying. to. >> It's amazing your brain works as good as. it does considering all the things. you've done to it. >> Oh, that's awesome. Thank you. If you. think about it, >> thank you. Yeah. Yeah. There's that.

part. >> There's that particular. >> part. >> cuz people like, you know, hey man, you. should get some laser work on your face. I'm like, dude, I'm lucky this thing is. still [ __ ] attached. Yeah. >> So, go [ __ ] yourself. >> You actually look way better than you've. looked in a long time. Oh, I think you. look the sobriety suits you. Really. does. You look you look really healthy. >> You know, I took a page out of your. book. Um, a very specific page and and. if if even if it's a rumor, it worked. Um, I use a sauna blanket, right? This.

thing called higher dose. And I'm not. sponsored by them. I just bought one and. I [ __ ] love it. I use it at home and. then I hear, "Hey man, [ __ ] Joe. travels with his." Right. >> I have one of those sauna blankets. Yeah. >> But do you travel with it? >> I do if I know that there's not going to. be a sauna. Okay. Okay. So, I was. >> a lot of times I'll just try to find a. place that has a sauna. >> Okay. >> Yeah. >> I was like, "Well, [ __ ] it. If he's. traveling with him, >> you definitely can, though. They're. great. >> I'm going to travel with mine.". >> Yeah. >> So, I've had it on this trip. >> I I've traveled with it. It's a pain in. the ass. I'm lugging this rolling duffel.

and [ __ ] Who cares? But so, so thank. you. >> It's worth it, though. >> Thank you for the idea. >> Those are great because those sauna. blankets are great because they're. portable and you could always just get. it in, >> right? I I really genuinely prefer a. real sauna if you have one because I. like to stretch out in the sauna. >> It's it's the best time ever to stretch. >> But as far as time. >> with with the with the portable blanket. is like I I tell people it's like a. Bickram class without all the yelling.

and pain. >> Right. A little bit. >> Well, do you do do you get drenched in. that thing? >> Oh, sure. That's a lot of what Bickram. is. You know, a lot of it is heat shock. therapy, right? you know, it's also the. yoga and the exercises which are great. and also the fact that you're more. pliable when you're really warm and. heated up like that which really helps. >> But a lot of what they're there was. actually a study that they were doing at. Harvard. I don't know if they completed. it, but uh they were doing it a couple. years back about uh the benefits of hot.

yoga and whether they're comparable to. the medical the known medical benefits. of sauna which are pretty pretty well. documented. And and what what what was. the conclusion? >> They I don't know. I I have to think. it's got to be similar because I've been. in both. You know, I've been in a lot of. hot saunas and I've done a lot of hot. yoga and that you because of the. exercise, I think you reach very similar. body temperatures. Got it. And your. heart rate jacks up because you're so. you're so hot and you're.

>> you know you could barely cool yourself. off with a glass of water when they let. you have a sip. Like in between things. you're allowed to take a sip of water. Yeah. But it's uh it's real similar and. it's 90 minutes, you know, which is. [ __ ] brutal. You you can get through. a real good Brim hot yoga class. At the. end of that, man, you're. >> you're Yeah. You're you're going to have. a you you have a different day in front. of you. >> 100%. If we all did that every day, it. was like how everyone started their day. The world would be so much more.

peaceful. >> Yeah. >> Yeah. No, you're right. >> It really would. >> Yeah, it really would. >> It'd be a much much much better place. And you don't have to [ __ ] do. anything hard in the gym. You don't have. to lift weights. You don't have to punch. the bag. All those things are great, but. just do a hot yoga class for 90 minutes. every day. You you will live in a. different world. >> Yep. 13 up, 13 down, right? Yeah. >> Yeah. You you will live in a world of. kindness and sweet people and hello, friend. >> Right. Because you've already you've.

already put yourself through something. that nobody else can deliver the rest of. the day. They can't deliver that kind of. pain you just inflicted on yourself. >> And it's a constant battle to see if you. can use 100% effort. >> Exactly. >> You're constantly battling. Can I hold. this pose for 15 more seconds? >> Yeah. And And there's no cheat zone. >> There's no You can't because you're. always doing it 100% of what you can do. >> Right. Right. Right. Yeah. Yeah. No, I I.

was I I was I was going to his his. studio on on like Rexford in the early. 80s. >> Oh, wow. >> Yeah, man. We were with that original. crew. >> Wow. >> Yeah. There's one thing that was really. cool. Um Kareem was in there. >> Wow. >> And you know the lot of the stuff with. the arms above the head, he he could. only go about here because ceiling. Yeah. I would come in late sometimes and. Kareem would already be in there and so. his shoes would be like next to his. locker. So I would put my still wearing.

my shoes inside his shoes just because I. I just had to. I It's cool as [ __ ] It's. Kareem, right? And so but then Quincy. Jones is also in there, right? And so um. the mirror you could see the front desk. where you check in behind you like you. could see it but it was behind us. We're. all facing forward and for about a. six-month period, you know, Quincy's in. a little speedos. He's giving, you know, he's giving it his all. He'd be in the. middle of like the standing bow or the.

freaking head to knee or something like. a triangle or something really. complicated. And he'd stop and he'd. leave the class, but you'd see him going. to the desk and writing [ __ ] down, [ __ ] sweating in his speedo, right? He's writing [ __ ] down. He's sweating. all over the paper. He'd come back and. try to, you know, resume what what he. was doing. And then this went on for a. while and we came to find out later. Guess what he was working on? If you. think about the year, if you think about. like what that how his mind was being.

expanded, right? He was producing. Thriller. >> Whoa. >> Yeah. And he's getting inspired during. the yoga during the Beckram yoga. >> So, we were kind of watching in the. mirror. >> the the the best I think the largest. selling album ever perhaps. Right. >> Probably. >> Yeah. Being. >> It's got to be up there. >> Being built behind us. >> Wow. >> Kind of a trip, right? >> Wow. >> Yeah. >> Wow. That shows you how hyper dialed in.

he is. >> Even in the middle of a yoga class, you. got to run out. He's probably thinking. about it with every pose. >> Exactly. Yeah. Or or some. >> And just how to write it down. >> How to write it down. >> Wow. >> How to write it down. >> Cuz most people aren't allowed to leave. the class. >> But Quincy Jones has to write some [ __ ]. down for Thriller. You got to let him. leave. >> Yeah. Yeah. He gets that pass, doesn't. he? Yeah, >> he gets the pass. >> He gets the pass. >> All right, brother. This was This is an. absolute pleasure. Thank you. >> This was an honor. Thank you for being. here. Best of luck for you and. everything. >> Thank you. Thank you. All right. Right.

on. >> Bye, everybody. [Music].