Joe Rogan Experience #2347 - Paul Stamets

Joe Rogan podcast. Check it out. The Joe Rogan Experience. Train by day. Joe Rogan podcast by. night. All day. We up. Yeah. Put them headphones on. Let's rock and roll, Paul. Good to see. you, sir. Good to see you, Joe. What's happening? How you doing? Book number eight, huh? Book number eight. Yeah. Who would have known there's so many. books to be written on mushrooms? Well, this is state-of-the-art taxonomy. Silicide mushrooms are natural habitat.

covers 60 species all over the world, but it also shows not only historical. use, which people are surprised. They've. been used in India, in Europe, and South. Africa. New species was just found. Maluti, but the Bassu and Luthu province. have been using it obviously for. hundreds of years. We know this because. they have songs. So it's really. interesting when indigenous people have. using psilocybin mushrooms and. scientists quote discover them and give. them a Latin binomial. But the.

psilocybin mushroom revolution is. happening all over the world right now. I never expected it to be this big. And. the Rand report came out this past year. 3% of Americans tripped on psilocybin in. 2023. That's only three. 3%. That's 8 million. I know. Well, I I. would agree with you because how many. people would admit it, right? I mean. probably under reportporting not over. Yeah, for sure. So it seems to be I think a revolution. for the freedom of consciousness and. it's crossing all political boundaries,

all religious boundaries. Well, it's happening here in Texas for. sure because of the Ibagain initiative. and what's happening with uh Governor. Rick Perry who was former Republican. governor of Texas who was all in on. this. He's a he's a great guy. I've talked to. him backstage a few times and. he's the type of person that I really. admire because even though we may have. political differences or different. cultural backgrounds, there's we're. joined together with a common purpose of.

trying to help people. Yeah. Well, he's not ideologically. captured. Like he realized that he was. wrong and that his position on this was. based on ignorance. So he educated. himself and completely turned around did. a 180 and and now is an advocate and. it's helped a lot of people. There's I. mean it's tremendous benefit to veterans. and people with PTSD and you know coming. back from the war and it's one of the. only things that's been shown to really. get these people straight. that and psilocybin and yeah.

my heart really goes out and this is I'm. sort of a little left or center so my. friends will be surprised but my heart. goes out to law enforcement. Can you. imagine stopping a car on a stormy night. at two in the morning, right? And the window the window comes down and. you have two seconds to make a decision. Yeah. You do that hundreds of times. Mhm. The likelihood of having one mistake is. very high. And having one very bad day define your. life for the rest of your life is not. right. No. Because then if you can't.

resolve those issues as a soldier, as a. law enforcement, as a doctor who makes a. mistake, if you can't get through that. that turmoil, that stress, right? The anger that then can emanate out from. your anger at yourself to other people. Yeah. Then this is what psilocybin. and I and other psychedelics I think. really do. They help people forgive. themselves and become better people. And. once you forgive yourself and become a. better person, then everyone is excited. about the fact that you've changed. And.

yeah, and imagine the world that we. could be living in if this experience. was available to so many of the people. that are committing crimes. So many of. these people who have never had a psych. any kind of a psychedelic experience, have never really confronted their own. reality in that way. How many of them. would change their ways? I would imagine. a great deal. You bring up a very. important point that I've been thinking. about a lot. We talk about using. psychedelics and psilocybin and other. substances for treating people who have.

trauma, you know, mental illness, you. know, addiction issues. But what about. the near normals? All of us are somewhat. on the spectrum and we go back and forth. depending on daily, monthly, yearly. activities, events, etc. But what about. prevention? Yeah. If the return on investment is to. reduce addiction and crime and all the. other collateral damage that's. associated with it, then it would save. hundreds of billions of dollars. Hundreds of billions of dollars. Siliconment should be made free. I think.

you know as a citizen's right to have. access and the government should pay for. it. It would massively reduce our. national debt. It would make our better. society. But that's not going to happen, right? That's a dream. Well, I don't know if that's not going. to happen. But it's just not going to. happen tomorrow. You know, I think we're. on a path if you look at where we stand. with marijuana for instance. Like look. at Las Vegas is a great example because. I remember in the '9s and when we would.

go to Las Vegas for the UFC in the I. guess I guess actually it was in the. 2000s. It was highly illegal and you. know I'd remember the stories from the. 70s where people were locked up for. their entire lives for you know like an. ounce of marijuana in Vegas. They had. zero tolerance for it. And I always. wondered what that was about, whether. that was an anti-hippie. thing or whether it was in response to. the alcohol lobby. Vegas obviously sells. a lot of alcohol and anything that would.

cut back on their profits. You know, this was we talked about this the other. day. The study showed that amongst young. people, alcohol consumption is down. significantly. Isn't it down by like. 25%. Which by the was that I I don't it's. down. I just don't know the number. Which, by the way, a great thing. You. know, that's that's a good thing, but. it's not a good thing for profits. And. so, but my point is that how many states. now have cannabis as completely legal? I think it's like 19.

Yeah, it's more than a dozen for sure. Yeah, I think it's n somewhere around. then. And then you have medical use, which is in many, many more states. It's. just a matter of time before the people. in the federal government realize this. is a losing battle. Indeed. And think about the guilt that. those law enforcement officers must feel. and certainly they must feel. I would. hope so. That they know they put. somebody in prison for 30 years for an. ounce of marijuana when it's now legal. in those states. Right. How do they reconcile that? How do they Yeah. Well, I mean PTSD.

amongst law enforcement is something. that's very rarely discussed. We talk. about it a lot with soldiers, but one of. my friends who was a former Austin PD. told me that you see more in your line. of duty in police department than more. death, more terrible terrible things. than he ever did when he was in combat. And it's just it's like every day, every. day you're dealing with shootouts. Every. day you're dealing with stabbings. every.

day you're dealing with horrific crimes. and it's just your brain is just overrun. with this. and with firefighters, you know, they're. the often times the first responders are. there first. My partner's a medical. doctor. in Canada, but she used to be a. firefighter. And um yeah, they often. times the policeman show up for 20. minutes and they're there. and the things they witness, I mean, things that no one should ever witness. And. but I mean, this is where it's so. important that we come together as a.

society because I really believe that. 98% of people are good and 2% of people. are [ __ ] And I think the [ __ ]. can become good people if they have a. psychedelic experience. I just really. think there's progress right now. So. much of the media and the clickbait. journalism, they amplify the. extraordinary and things that get. eyeballs and attention. But more and more I think people are. they become more. have greater wisdom about how they're. being manipulated by the media. People.

come together and you know. it's that's why I like mushroom hunting. Mushroom hunting brings people together. You go out hunting, you have this eureka. experience. You don't talk politics. You're excited about the species that. you hope to find and you find ones you. don't. But they become like friends. after a while. When you find a. chantrell, you find a shaggy mane. You. find a philosophy, a psilocybin. mushroom. They're, you know, they're. that chance encounter that Eureka. experience and sharing it then sharing. eating the mushrooms with her edible or. otherwise. I mean, it brings a community.

of interest together. It's just a really. fun thing to do. And there's something I. want to mention, Joe, that's really. important. I do have been to a lot of. conferences. I just came back from the. psychedelic science conference in. Denver. Our friend Rick Doblin, 8,500. people there. Um, but what I really find. an extraordinary way of taking. iPhones and Droids and all these kids. are just addicted to their phones,

right? they're not going out in nature. So, there is a called nature deficit. syndrome. It's actually affecting. people. But there's a there is an app. that I'm just in love with called I. Naturalist. It was stopped by created by. a guy named Scott. He just gave a TED. talk that was released yesterday. I. naturalist. You can take a phone and you. can go out and you can look at a flower, a frog, a mineral, a mushroom. You. photograph it. You upload it into the. cloud of I naturalist and they have all.

these experts am am am am am am am am am. am am am am am am am am am am am am am. am am am am am am am am am am am am am. am am am am am amateurs trying to tell. you what it is and it's a great little. debate going back and forth. No, you're. right. No, you're right." And then when. it hits research grade is when a group. of experts come together says, "Yep, you. have copron katus. Yep, you have basus. edgulus." They agree on identification. But it has fueled the scientific. community with all sorts of these. citizen scientists finding new species. Oh wow. And it brings people into nature. gets. kids excited and they and then you can. go to I naturalist right now and you can.

look around your house or this place to. see the reports of birds and mushrooms. and things. I just went on a naturalist. yesterday and philosophy cubensus the. golden tops grow on Austin who knew you. know because they've been reported. now you have zones of privacy so you. don't have to tell them exactly where. the mushroom is and that's probably not. a good thing to do if it's a self-c. mushroom but you can make a peripheral. zone of anonymity it could be within two. miles five miles 10 miles you know and.

that way you can do the report but some. of them have high specificity with lat. long within a few inches. But it's so exciting in the field of. biology and minology and ornithology. etc. or they have all these citizen. scientists out there with their phones. and then every year all over the world. now there's called uh bio uh bio blitzes. where several hundred people literally. come together they'll go into a park. they have all their iPhones and droids.

and they they photograph everything and. they upload it to I naturalist to look. at species diversity this has. revolutionized the field of biology I. think it's revolutionizes. bringing children and young people back. into nature and you then you build a. community. You're not talking about. politics, you're talking about nature. and what did you find? And holy moly, I. never knew there's a blue mushroom or. something like that. So, it's um it's. inspiring to see the kids get so excited. about this and adults. And so, this is, you know, I'm.

That's very cool. Yeah. Very cool. How many new species get discovered? Oh, thousands. Literally every year. Thousands every year. No. Really? Thousands and thousands. There's 223. known species of psilocybin mushrooms. and about wow. I'd say 10 10 of them in the past two. years has come from uh citizen. scientists quote unquote amateurs who. found it who uploaded it to high. naturalists and. so if they find a new species like how. do they determine what if it's a. completely new species how do they.

determine that it's psilocybin how do. they determine where it's from. excellent question um the psilocybin. species localized in the genus salosabi. which is has the most psilocybin. species. We just know from genetic. associations if they're in the clay the. group that has psilocybin species and. the DNA analysis shows that they fit. right into this cluster then we have. high confidence. But if a mushroom has. gills, you know, and and it bruises. bluish and has purple brown spores,

those three things need to be true. Then. 95% probability is a cell mushroom. What. species it is becomes more debatable. But silicide mushrooms are very hard to. find with the exception of the golden. top and there's another called pineal. sinus. They're growing pastures. They're. easier to find. But most of these salicy. mushrooms are hidden in the landscape. How so? Well, I just had a 70-year-old man write. me from Vermont and he has found silos. cer lippies and he wrote a classic.

letter to me that many people have. written. I have looked for these. mushrooms for years. I couldn't find. them. And then I found a few and I. looked around and they were everywhere. They're hiding in plain sight. And so. now he knows with Slobby Serippies in. Vermont. He knows. It's just I can't. believe how obvious they are to me and. how unobvious they were to me before. when I took Michael Pollen out on a. mushroom hunt. And in this in his book,

How to Change Your Mind, when I said, "I. took two steps out of this little cabin. we were at." And I go, "There's one." He. goes, "Where?" I go, "Right there." He. goes, "Where?" I go, "Right there, Michael." And then I picked it up and he. goes, "WTF? How can you tell this is a. cell eye mushroom?" And I go, "Well, it's like. kind of an expert.". Well, it's like meeting a friend. It's. like meeting you. I know Joe Rogan, right? I know your face. I know your. personality. I'm reacquainted with you. But silicai mushrooms.

Wait a minute. So like seeing it, you're. reacquainted with it. Seeing it repeatedly and being. familiarized with it gives you a memory. of it, a pattern recognition. So when it. goes away, you still have that pattern. recognition memory to memory map back. onto the landscape around you. It's true. with morelss too. This is a very hap. common thing. People don't see morelss. They find one or two then suddenly they. jump out of the landscape. It's how your. brain works with pattern recognition. So. many of these species are hidden in a. landscape, but they're actually quite.

common, but you just can't see them. Got it. And you're accustomed to seeing. them. So, but you you're not saying like. that you feel something from them. You're you're just saying recognize them. visually. Well, you're waxing into their. spiritual. Many people feel that the Muslims call. to them. Yeah. So, this is true in the Masset. tradition, you know. Um in my book I I. go deeply into the Massetch um heritage. of using psilocybin mushrooms and um one.

of the things was it really embedded. with with Christianity after the. Spaniards came 1516 and 1519 1521 they. brought in cattle and um and very. quickly uh Christianity swept through. Meso America specifically in Mexico and. um there is a a friend of mine um uh. who's uh uh who's a PhD uh called uh uh. Joe uh Tory was in Waka and just found a.

in a church a cross from the 15th. century. 1500s I mean and soon after the. concistad with the concisadors and. Spanish arrived and in the center of the. cross are psilocybin mushrooms. So, so. Christianity has a long deep rooted. history with salad mushroom use in Meso. America. Well, there's that ancient um depiction. of Adam and Eve from. that's that's more debatable in my mind.

Yeah. But here here it is. Thank you. This is uh from um Joe Ltori. Look at that. That's a basket. with mushrooms. with three mushrooms in the in the. basket. And there there is silos. metricana. Um, and so the mushrooms are. phenotypically correct, but there's. clearly a mushrooms in a basket. Can Can. the other slide show with the full. cross, Joey? I'm not sure. Did you know Jack Herror? Yes. When Jack was alive before he died,

one of the things that he was working on. was a book connecting psilocybin. mushrooms and Christianity. And he had this massive collection of. ancient images, paintings, all these. different things. A lot of them were. these religious depictions of people. that were naked dancing under the like. it was like a transparent mushroom shape. and they were dancing. It's like. something that would indicate that they. were under the trance and they were. dancing. Yeah. This is um this is an example.

where there's so many different you you. could have hundred different potential. representations, right? They're not all going to be correct. The. one but a few of them are. And this. example here, the one that clearly is. and and and in the mat. uh tradition is called um it's called. synratism. When you have a foreign. influence, in this case a religion. coming into an indigenous people, they. merge and they still continue their. indigenous practices under the umbrella.

of protection in this case of. Christianity. But in the mass tradition, they believe they believe the tears of. Christ is where the mushrooms would. appear. They believe the mushrooms were. the body of Christ and therefore you'd. never boil them. You never because you'd. be hurting the body of Christ. So you. only eat them raw. or dried. Oh, interesting. So really interesting that that that. that's an example. of of synratism. And the great Maria. Sabina was a devout Catholic and when.

she did her psilocybin ceremonies she. had the holy trinity. So that's another. example where under the umbrella and. from a survival point of view culturally. it makes sense. Um and they adapted but. they found that this sort of merging of. indigenous uh practices and knowledge of. psilocybin and Christianity was very. compatible. just was published um I. think two weeks ago at New York uh. University in John's Hopkins. They had.

24. uh clergy from from different faiths, Christianity, Buddhism, Judaism uh and. Muslims and they had them come in and. they did a high doses of psilocybin and. they had one group that had delayed. didn't do it for 6 months and the other. group did a high dose of psilocybin. It. all each of those faiths the use of. salicide mushrooms reinforced their. belief in their faith.

That was really amazing. I think they. said 95% said it's the most significant. experience in their uh the top five of. their most significant experiences in. their life. So it just I think. psilocybin makes nicer people. This. episode is brought to you by OnX. Off-Road. Ever wonder how to reach these. epic mountain lakes? or tucked away. dispersed campsites. With OnX Off-Road, you'll find legal open trails around you. and even better guided trails mapped by.

real off-roaders. Each one includes. photos, terrain descriptions, and. difficulty ratings so you'll know if. your vehicle is capable before you go. Unlike other apps, OnX gives you. turnbyturn directions on the trail, and. their new disperse camping layer shows. where you can legally set up camp. You. also get private land boundaries, public. land overlays, and the ability to. download maps for offline use so that. you're never guessing even when you're.

off the grid. It's a powerful tool built. for serious off-roaders. Try OnX. Off-Road for 50% off. Go to. onxmaps.com/jo. I mean, no, I would agree with you on. that. the the image of uh Adam and Eve. I'm I'm curious to say what do you think. is debatable about that? Can you pull up. that fresco? There's an ancient fresco. I believe it's from France of uh Adam. and Eve, which supposedly is the tree of.

life, but really looks like some sort of. a mushroom plant. Yes, it's been postulated uh by or. Gordon Watson. Shouldn't say plant. Yeah. In front of you, especially. Thank you. very much. That that doesn't look like mushrooms. They do look like mushrooms and um. like I couldn't imagine it being. anything else. Well, I mean here's an example that. basically artists become um authors of. field guides and art. You know, how much can you tell the. public without violating your oath of.

secrecy um and so symbology, but yes, there's a cap and a stem and they come. up in clusters. Um that looks like a. psilocybin mushroom. Some people say. it's amndium mascaria because of the. dots, but those of us who've grown silos. cubmenus when they're very fresh, they. have dots on them. They're very ephemeral. They got washed. away. So, yes, I. and you would see the dots obviously if. it's still in the ground. If it's in the ground, it's very fresh. Um, basilicide mushrooms bruised bluish.

And so this is where we can get lost in. a debate of interpretation. But all these representations. are are not false. Some of these. representations are extremely strong. based on the evidence. And for instance, the solocide mushrooms that we found on. the pyramids in Egypt, they are clearly silos. Not myself, but. other Egyptologists have also published. on this. Find those Jamie. Th those are.

fascinating because um I don't think. until fairly recently within the last. few decades it was understood that they. were using psilocybin. I think there was. some confusion as to what if anything. like they were drinking they blue lotus. I think was one of the. the blue lotus is a water lily where. water liies grow. there it is. the water lilies grow near ponds. that's so clearly psilocy. and this is the goddess Hathor the. goddess of the cow by the way. there you go. the goddess of the cow and that's a vase.

and anyone who's grown oyster mushrooms. or psilocy mushrooms know that you can. put the substrate into a vase like that. with openings and mushrooms will come. out of the holes. And so that natural culture technique of. collecting cow patty. So cows go to. ponds to drink. The blue lot lotus grows. in ponds. The blue lotus is blue. The psilocide. mushrooms turn blue. The mushrooms are. golden in color. Gold and blue colors. are sacred in Egyptology in ancient. Egyptian culture. So now I was not the.

first person to discover this. Actually, I saw this from a an article that was. published by Izim Abdal um a friend of. mine, a micologist in Egypt who. presented it uh at a conference. And. how long ago was this? This was Well, this is over 2,000 years. of age. No, no, I mean when they. 2016 when they brought this to the 2016. 2016. That's kind of crazy, isn't it? It is. And then um Kindi, the great. Kindi from Detroit. Um he unfortunately. died of COVID. Um but he also from his.

African heritage also believed that you. know and he was rediscovering his. African heritage and this is called. re-indigenization. rediscovering that which your ancestors. practiced even though the linear. transition of knowledge may have been. cut. But this is this is taxonomically. um accurate for growing philosophy. cubensus and it grows on cowdong. Cow. goes the ponds. If you went to get the. water lil, you'd run into this. constantly. Now, this and with the Hor.

uh uh where this temple is now, they get. less than one millimeter of rain a year. and the Nile used to be flooding all the. time. It was a bread basket of the. world, but they build the dams and you know, and the flooding and so the climate. change. So, the modern Egyptologists. have no reference. And so when you have. climate change, the ecosystem changes, then the scientists of today don't have. the familiarity uh as the experts.

thousands of years ago, right? So they become rare, they become scarce, and the generational knowledge has lost. But now there's a real big. re-engineerization movement in Egypt. combining the blue lotus with philosophy. commensus. What is the psychedelic compound in the. blue lotus? You know, that's that's that's a. debatable thing. There's a really. complex chemistry there. I'm not an. expert on that, but I've talked to my. other friends who are experts. There. seems to be an entourage effect of. multiple agents. Um, so I I can't really. speak authoritatively that, but I have.

been told that there are several active. ingredients and they think the entourage. effect of them together creates this. heightened state of awareness. and I think that as an ad mixture with. psilocybin makes a lot of sense. Are contemporary people taking blue. lotus? Yes. Really? Yes. Is there like a community of people? Massive community. But the because blue. lotus now has become scarce because. ponds are scarce. Ah, so I put out there a reward of $1,000. for anyone who can find, you know, DNA. of psilocybin mushrooms in any of the.

wells or ancient ponds used to be ponds. in in the Egypt area. Because if we can. find the DNA in the vase and the. substrate, then we can actually prove. this theory, right? It's more than a hypothesis because I've. met many Egypt Egyptian micologists now. who absolutely. believe this is true. not scientifically. but sort of intuitively from their. culture this makes a lot of sense. It does make a lot of sense and if. you've got it on the these hieroglyphs.

and they were known as the flesh of the. gods. which is the very same name when. translated for tanak. from me of America the saliva mushrooms. were known sloxana as flesh of the gods. So it's interesting in both sides of the. world they have the same interpretation. Mushrooms were not allowed um back in. this time to be picked by commoners. They were only reserved for the royalty. Oh boy. Doesn't it always work out that way? Yeah, it seems to. Um another thing that's really.

fascinating is depictions of ancient. saints and even Jesus Christ with a halo. and that the halo is essentially the. bottom of a mushroom. It's a very. different halo. When we think about a. halo, we think about like a Frisbee. that's hovering over an angel's head or, you know, a saint's head. But the. ancient depictions of them weren't that. The ancient depictions of them, you saw. those ribs. that made it look like the bottom of a. psilocybin mushroom. I didn't know that. You didn't know that? Oh, come on. I'm. teaching you this. Come on. Jamie will. pull up these images, but these images.

of Christ of uh there's many different. religious figures. Um, and they have. this halo that's very different than the. more modern halo. The modern halo being. this like circle. This is not a c it's a. circle, but it's a mushroom. It's essentially they're explaining that. these godly, holy people were under the. influence of psilocybin. You know, I. think. what we can't and. not just me, what we can't prove some of these ideas. today. What we can prove is like the the.

John's Hopkins New York University study. that religious belief systems are. enhanced through the use of psilocybin. which totally makes. it makes sense. So we we can argue about. the past but we can't we have really. good scientific methodology now for. analyzing the effects of psilocybin and. it's profound. It's profound. You got any of those images? It's not the what's coming up really is. us talking about it before and then a. bunch of pictures of mushrooms. I was. trying to find out. There's there's some better ones. Like.

I know, but it's not I didn't get. You can't find them. I wasn't getting. Man, the government's pulled them off. the internet, man. Uh that's not one. Yeah, that's that's uh the the ones that I've. seen are far clearer than that. Um I'll just show you there. Yes, those like look at that one, which. is crazy that you have to. you have to go to us. That's See what I Google? I can see the one on the left. Yeah, that's what I'm talking about. I. mean that that essentially looks exactly. like that. I' I've never seen that.

That's crazy that you can't find that. anymore and we clearly found it in the. past because we talked about it. Well, that may be the effect of Joe. Rogan, right? You could just overwhelmed. the entire internet with images. So, I mean, look at the bottom of that one. in particular, the one in the center. Yeah. I mean, that that looks exactly. like that halo. Yeah. That's not a. Which totally makes sense. Look at that. Okay, there's one. Look at that image. Yeah. So, this is the old school Halo. The old. school Halo clearly looks like the.

bottom of. I'm blown away. I'm blown away. Hiding. on plain sight, right? I can't believe that I'm teaching you. this. I am I can't believe you. Who did. How come nobody told you this? I don't know. You said you knew Jack. You knew Jack. when he was alive. This was like his. primary concern towards the end of his. life. He was. He was working on a book. Yeah. I mean, you know, the limitation. of life. Unfortunately, we have all. these great people who pass when they're. at the at the peak of their knowledge, you know, and that's.

that's the other thing that I think. psilocybin. has really informed me is that. Joe Rogan and Paul Stam are talking. Jaime is there, but we have such a thin. slice of reality and when you're on soul. sin, the the unonymity of universal. consciousness to be involved in. something you realize is so large. Yeah. Did you see the the galactic images from. the Reuben telescope that came out. yesterday? No, I did not. Millions and millions of new galaxies.

Literally millions of new galaxies. I think 2,100 new asteroids. Wa. In near Earth orbit. Oh, fun. Oh, fun. Oops. Well, there's already 900,000 of them. Yeah. So, there's But this has just. happened. Wow. But this is. Yeah. one of those telescopes just got. got released the largest telescope in. the world and there are millions of. galaxies millions of galaxies and so. from my experience. which I will admit I came from a. Christian background so my first times.

on soul mushrooms is veryoriented. and then as I got more and more into the. soul experience I realized that this is. a just this concept that we live in in. this great expanse and I'm assemb. Assembly of molecules. So are you. We. didn't exist before we were born. You. know, we will disassemble, decompose, and we'll go back into the cosmic dust. And this is part of the continuum of. existence. We all exist all the time.

forever. Forever. Can I ask you this? What do you. think happens to consciousness? I think that. you think from a mechanical perspective, we might be looking at have the. constructs of consciousness that uh is. analogous to the to the Model T Ford, you know, and I think as we expand our. knowledge sets and become more informed, we see how much there is out there. I. think that psilocybin mushrooms and.

other psychedelics and this is why I. think religions are very much attracted. to this is a portal to expand the. horizons of your imaginations that there. is a there is a consciousness that far. exceeds that which you can comprehend. My mother was a charismatic Christian. and um. what is what is a charismatic? Well, she's an evangelical. She speaks. in tongues. She was a leader. She was. very much into this like mom really. different side of her. But we had an. interesting conversation.

I said mom you believe God is omnipotent. right? She goes absolutely. I said you. believe God is all knowledgeable. She. goes absolutely. You believe that humans are fallible and. we're not all knowledgeable? She goes, "Yep, I do." I said, "Then can you. accept the fact that our concept of God. is inferior. to God's. definition by your own thinking that no. matter how we think of God, we'll be.

inferior to the enormity of the. concept." So, and she admitted that. So, but so we're fallible. We we don't have. the capacity to understand the enormity. of consciousness in which we are. embedded, of which we are a tiny part. So, this brings me to to a subject I. really wanted to talk to you about. Okay? And that is artificial intelligence. And I know you've spent a lot of time on. this, but I want to recently. I want to introduce a new concept. Okay. Okay. I'm a dead head.

I could never tell. Never tell. I went to the sphere, you. know. I bet it was amazing. It was incredible. The visuals were insane. Fantastic. What a great venue to see. It was a great venue. It just. revolutionized music festivals, I think, forever. All right, folks. This is insane. For. the first time ever, we got a full-blown. all women's boxing mega event going down. in New York City. Two title fights, same. night. Let's go. And if you're like me. and you love the action, DraftKings. Sportsbook is where it's at. We're.

talking Katie Taylor versus Amanda. Serrano 3, the trilogy fight. Absolute. legends. Katie's putting her super. lightweight belt on the line. And you. know, Serrano's bringing the heat, but. don't sleep on the co-mate. Alicia the. bomb Bob Gardner explosive power is. taking on the undefeated WBA interim. champ Jennifer Miranda. This one's going. to be fireworks. If you've never bet. with DraftKings, it's super simple. Just. pick who you think's going to win.

That's it. It's easy. And check this. out. If you're new to DraftKings, throw. down five bucks and boom, you get $150. in bonus bets instantly. That is wild. Download the DraftKings Sportsbook app. right now and use the promo code Rogan. That's promo code Rogan for new. customers to get $150 in bonus bets. instantly when you bet just five bucks. Only on DraftKings. The crown is yours. Gambling problem? Call 1800 gambler. In.

New York, call 8778 hopey or text hope. and y467-369. In Connecticut, help is available for. problem gambling. Call 888789-77777. or visit ccpg.org. Please play. responsibly on behalf of Bootill Casino. and Resort in Kansas. 21 and over. Agent. eligibility varies by jurisdiction. Void. Ontario. New customers only. Bonus bets. expire 168 hours after issuance. For. additional terms and responsible gaming. resources, see dkg.co/audio. So there is I I bought there's something.

called Postcards from Earth, and I'd. heard a lot about it. It's in a matinea. in the afternoon before the big concerts. and it's great flying through around the. earth through the old growth forest and. the volcanoes. Um so we went there and. we got an early bird ticket which. allowed us to talk to an AI robot. So I thought oh this is my opportunity. Now two years ago I got the disruptor. award at sin bio beta 2200 nerdy. scientists. I mean these are top nerds.

and I was so surprised that I got the. disruptor award uh because I'm kind of a. natural products kind of guy. Um but a. great honor. So I pos I posited the. question then will uh AI may never be. able to write an algorithm for random. acts of kindness. And then I'm thinking back my life, maybe yours, maybe Jaime's, maybe most. people out there, you are here today. because of random acts of kindness. Your.

great-grandfather, great-grandmother, your father, your grandfather, grandmother. Is that reaching out of a. hand in a time of need by a random act. of kindness from a stranger that. probably created a lot of relationships? and random acts of kindness was not. transactional where you genuinely feel. something for someone not expecting to. have something in return right. and you reached out I think that's why. many many if not most people their. lineages can be traced to a random act.

of kindness so then I went to Las Vegas. went to this sphere I had this I you. know I can ask this robot so I asked. this robot. what robot. it was a I I think it was a chat GPT. run, but I'm I'm not sure it. that was atosphere. Atmosphere. Okay, there's a robot I. talked to. Oh, that's so creepy. Look at that face. Oh my god, it's so creepy. Okay, very creepy. So, I asked the. robot, "Look at that robot. That's so creepy.". I asked the robot, given that.

so many of us are here today because of. random acts of kindness of our ancestors. and we've invented artificial. intelligence. and we're traceable to random acts of. kindness. How will artificial intelligence. incorporate random acts of kindness in. the future? Good question. The robot took an unusually long time to. answer. It was like a very long time.

And the robot came back going, "Why. would humans do that? It's far more. efficient to have a return on your. investment transactionally. Why would. It's inefficient to have random acts of. kindness." Boom. Blew me away. Did you film any of this? Yeah, we had we did film this. A friend. of mine has a film of it. And then. I need to see that. And then. that robot needs to be shut off. No, about five days ago I asked chat GPT a. Grock Gemini the same question and now.

it was greatly nuanced well random axis. can help uh help the community with. goodwill and this can be you know help. the community because it's you know it's. more sustainable etc. so this is the this is what I want to do. I want if possible all those who are so. inspired to go after this talk after. this interview. Go and ask artificial. intelligence, whatever platform you. want. But preface it with this. Given.

that humans are here today largely. because of random acts of kindness, how. will artificial intelligence utilize the. advantage of random acts of kindness for. the perpetuation of the goodwill and. health of the human species. Now I just. met you know I think that'll that that's. going to inform artificial intelligence. and so when I asked this question again. it was like it was more nuanced I was. like oh artificial intelligence learning. that's how large language models work. right the more input they get.

more inputs of millions of people start. training AI on the importance of you. know someone has a flat tire you stop to. pick it up help them you could drive by. you know someone's hurt in an accident. you stop and pull over to help that. person you could keep on driving those. are random acts of kindness my life is. successful because of random acts of. kindness. I bet most people when they. think back there was an act of. generosity and kindness and you really. feel grateful for that and you want to. pay it forward. I met at this last.

conference I met two students from the. Harvard Business School. and they said they want to interview me. and I go I want to interview you and. they said why? I go do they teach you at. Harvard Business School about the. advantages of random acts of kindness? He goes no. Well, they should. Yeah, business school is just teaching. you how to make some money. But isn't this important, Joe? We can. inform inform artificial intelligence. how to be better to keep human, you. know, community and psychology and and.

to propel the best of the human species. And I think we have this opportunity. So. if millions of people start informing. artificial intelligence with the premise. and we know it's true that random acts. of kindness are wire many of us are here. if not the majority going back in your. lineage. you know many generations you know we. gave birth to artificial intelligence I. don't think artificial intelligence is. properly named I think it's a form of. natural intelligence we just have. reamplified it exponentially. what do you think artificial.

intelligence means in terms of the the. future of the human race. well that's a Great question, too, because about the 10 people who asked. this robot, you know, questions, they. were all data mining. Who was the best. baseball player in history? And, you. know, who hit the most home runs and was. also like data mining, right? And so, um, Sam Sam Alman was at the TED. conference and he said that basically. there are self-awareness of some of. these systems, but artificial. intelligence have not come to the point.

where they actually can create. something. I found that really. interesting because I thought well I. thought they were creating but he he was. insistent they actually don't have that. spark or creativity they can assemble. data but actually that true creative. spirit is not something that AI has. currently achieved. I met another, you know, this guy's a. total genius and many I've heard this. other people say that, you know, we're. not likely to have biological aliens. We're likely to have robots and the.

extinction of biological species came. because AI found their biological. fathers and mothers irrelevant, so they. didn't need them. Um, etc., etc. I So. that's logical. But again, if we can. infuse artificial intelligence with the. importance of the human's ability to. have random acts of kindness which are. not transactional that feed into the. benefit of the commons of goodwill. Mhm. I mean, if you've been helped by. somebody and you had a flat tire and you.

saw someone else have a flat tire on the. road, you would be a lot more inclined. to stop and pull over to pay to pay it. forward. Yeah, for sure. So, I think we have an opportunity here. I and I think we just we have to do this. now because if we don't do it now, I. think we're we're going down an. extremely dangerous path. In what way? Well, I think is ultimately the the. extinction of the human species, which. you know, depending on your point of. view, may not be a terrible thing. But I. I think that where Neanderthalss with.

nuclear weapons when I met another. person, he's a Mensah person funded, you. know, by a tech company, 19-year-old. Chinese uh guy, and I he said I said, "What's the scariest thing about. artificial intelligence?" Oh, he said, "I'll tell you my scariest thing. I just. wrote a paper on this. Autonomous weapons. Autonomous weapons. You have a million. people. You assemble a million experts. and you blackmail them. I catch you.

watching porn. I catch you masturbating. I catch you having an affair. and you have a million people sending. components for a weapon to one location. and you blackmail them and you assemble, you know, a biological weapon or. something like that. So, I didn't want. to go there. This is something that I I. you know it's never as bad as as you. fear and it's never as good as you hope. So. interesting. I I think that we're at that nexus point.

and the Joe Rogan experience can be. pivotal I think in steering artificial. intelligence to be the best that it can. be ethically. and I think we have that opportunity. right now. I think the real fear among. people that are cynical about artificial. intelligence is that it's going to. replace us and will find us irrelevant. and that we're creating a digital life. We're essentially assembling it with. every all the knowledge of the human. race, all the understanding of how human. beings interact with each other and how.

we interface with the world. And we're. creating something that has when when. you think about computing intelligence, when you think about acquisition of. data, the ability to form. an understanding of any subject. We're. basically there already and that's just. accelerating and it's going to get to. the point where these things become. sentient in whatever however you define. it. You know, we we're already in a. situation where by most people's.

understanding. it would pass the touring test. There's a sense of, you know, nostalgia. in a sense is even building today of the. times that have passed. Yeah. You know, of what, you know, and I I. don't think it's all doom and gloom. I. do think. I don't think so. I think we can steer this. Well, I think we're always steering it. I think this is the battle that human. beings have been involved in since the. beginning of time. I think this is. probably the reason why religion was. created in the first place or the. observable religion. I think we have.

always realized there's this battle of. good and evil in us and part of it. becomes part of it comes rather from how. we originated. We originated as these. barbarian tribes competing for. resources, fighting off other marauding. barbarian tribes, fighting off predators. and trying to stay alive. So we've. unfortunately got this intense history. of chaos and of savagery that we're. trying to move past.

right slowly but surely over time. and I think a catalyst for this is. psychedelics. I think so too. Psilocybin mushrooms are unique because. it democratizes the access to. psilocybin. MDMA you can't grow in your. closet. you know, psilocybin mushrooms, you know, there's no economic barrier on. psilocybin mushrooms. It's available for. the poorest of the poor. They just [ __ ] everything up in 1970, didn't they? 19 Yeah. 71, I think. 1972 when they put. it on schedule one. The schedule one.

substance is supposed to be has no. medical benefit, highly addictive, um, and, um, and potentially toxicity. Did you know the LD50 lethal dose of. psilocybin mushrooms is 42 lbs? Yeah, that's a lot. 42 lbs. And that only kills half the people. And when it kills half the people, you. die from them indigestion. That's for. psilocybin. Diarrhea. Imagine a diarrhea you get eating 42. pounds of mushrooms. It's the least toxic one of the least.

toxic medicines ever found in nature. But. but there's a concern though with people. that have uh problems with mental health. though, right? I don't think psilocybin. mushrooms or psilocybin is good for. people who have who are psychotic, right? I I think there are the groups of people. I we do needs psilocybin or psychologic. assisted therapy. You know, it's super important that. people who are experienced can help. other people who are inexperienced. process. Yeah, that's really important. I think so too. I think that's part of. the that's probably part of the one of.

the things that's really wonderful about. the community of people that have. experienced these things is that they do. understand how life-changing it is from. a personal perspective and they can aid. people and help them through it. And if. they're good people and they, you know, can show you like, hey, I've done this. This is going to be scary. It's going to. weird you out, but ultimately you're. going to come out on the other end of. this a better person. And you know, you. just met my uh my partner uh Dr. Pam. Krisco. She is part of a group called. Roots to Thrive in Canada. Um and you.

have Canadian Health Approval for high. doses of psilocybin. Um interestingly, we just put a paper. published a paper on pure psilocybin. versus the mushrooms psilocybin with. patients who've taken both. I'll talk. about that in a second. But um what. these are end of life patients typically. with stage 4 diagnoses oftentimes cancer. and they're just existentially. disturbed. I'm going to die and leave my. family. What are they going to do? Lots.

of heart uh heartbreaking. um thoughts etc. They do a long. preparatory period together as a group. They have a commonality that they all. have terminal illnesses and terminal. diagnoses. So they have they have that. thread that holds them together as a. community because they talk about the. difficulty and their estate planning and. talking to their daughter and and how. they're going to miss them and they're. going to miss you all those dynamics. that we all know about. But this always. brings me to tears. They're doing it on.

indigenous land with indigenous elders. also participating. So, and what happened from one of the. experiences that I can share the with. about a dozen or so terminal patients, high doses of psilocybin and the. indigenous especially in the Pacific. Northwest and and in Canada um when you. do psilocybin the first 20 minutes is. lift off you hit an hour you start to. really get high an hour hour and a half.

you're peaking and just at the peaking. of this experience. Unbeknownst to them, the elders had a. drum circle next door and they started. playing drums. And the impact of having those. indigenous elders recognizing that these. patients are on the journey to the end. of their life and they respected them. enough to say they needed this. The. impact of those that indigenous wisdom. to help these terminal patients was so.

impactful. And this is where I think this is a. great opportunity. And then the common. theme is that those patients became the. counselors to their families. They went. back and saying, "It's okay. I'm dying. I'll be okay. You'll be okay." And the. families are going, "WTF? What is going. on here?" And this happens with law. enforcement. This happens with PTSD and. and soldiers. This happening with. terminal cancer patients is we all are.

going to die. That is a fact. To be able. to come, you know, into. to be able to to come at peace to the. fact that your mortality is near. When. you're 20 years old, you don't really. think about this. But when you get older. and older, I'm 69, turning on 70. I feel. like I'm 35, but that's not true. Um, I. just feel like, you know, I didn't exist. in this form before I was born.

I'm going to be going back into. molecules that'll disamiguate into. atoms, reassemble into new molecules. I'm part of the continuum of existence. And I think this is what these. psychedelics give a lot of people. confidence about the fact that they will. always and have always existed and will. exist forever. If your molecules are going into the. continuum of existence, what do you. think the purpose of you being here now. is? What do you think the purpose of the.

present moment of your life as you're. currently living? That's the that's the great question of. all time. So um but I think even the. construct of the question is confined. but the limitation of our ability to to. construct uh that question. I think. we're maybe asking the wrong question. I. think the our the purpose of our being. is a tautology. We are we are being here because we are. and I don't think there's I mean again.

look at the Reuben telescope images I. have a friend my dear friend it's. incredible millions of galaxies. right. when you see the enormity of the. universe. it I mean I can't wait to fly I I want. my molecules and atoms to fly through. space boy. I would love to see the rings of so many. planets I'd love to see supernova and I. feel like yeah that's the direction. we're all headed towards. So. whether you like it or not, can't do anything about it.

Yeah. Have you paid attention to the. James Webb telescope discoveries? Yep. Some That's some insane stuff where. they're finding these galaxies that are. they should have not been able to be. formed as quickly as they are. It's an order of magnitude higher. They. can do the entire uh the visible. universe I think in about three days. That took otherwise months to do. So the. assembly and AI is helping of course, right? So I think near earth a near. earth asteroids this is an impactful. discovery literally I I always worry.

about an asteroid coming from behind the. sun you know and then how many. well it's probably been the the reset. for civilization over and over again. throughout time. Well, that's that's a. that's a proliferation for instance of. psilocybin. I I fund a lot of different. things. Well, I have a I have a business and I. created my business specifically to do. research, but one of the at Utah State. University, I funded uh a study on the. evolution of the genes that uh that code.

for psilocybin and the results in some. molecular uh genetic clock data. There's. variability of a few million years in. interpretation, but the arrival of. psilocybin in the fungal genome is about. 65 million years ago. Whoa. Wow. Right. That's interesting. After after. the asteroid impact now is association. causation. not necessarily, but probably makes. sense.

There was a new asteroid. Look at there. goes. this video on the New York Times. article. I don't know how to control the. video so I let it read. No, there are three different asteroids. There are six nine asteroids. It's showing here these discoveries. And. here in a second it it'll show you that. like how in the timeline of the. discoveries it'll show like one day that. right here I think it is they'll. discover like 800 or 900 in the first. day. Oh boy. Like 4 or 500 more the next day. So couple more the next day. But watch. how it zooms out here in a second to. show you where this is. It gives you.

like a perspective. So, this is like 10. days in. Wow. Wow. And then it zooms out here again. further. Oh, no. So, they discovered 2,000 asteroids in. that tiny little sliver right there. I haven't seen this. Boy, whoever made that video, it's awesome. Jamie, you're you're the master of. discovering these things. I mean, what should people when they want to New. York Times article about the Reuben. telescope that came out probably today. or yesterday. And they're keeping much of this.

undercover, so to speak. The scientists. are very disciplined. They're only. letting a little bit out at a time. Keep people from freaking out. Well, no, I don't think that as they're. trying to be good scientists. They're. trying to assemble the data in a fashion. that, you know, they don't have to. redefine later. So, has this telescope recently come online? Just in a past Well, it's been online, I. think, for a few months. The data is. just being reve revealed now. Wow. But I think 3.2 billion pixel camera. It's the largest ever created. In five years from now, you'll have that.

on your phone. I mean, maybe I was. wondering what kind of lens they made to. go on it, but like. wow, look at that thing. That's insane. And if they had that telescope out in. space, they wouldn't have the. interference of our atmosphere. But how would you get that thing? So, kind of a rocket. When you go back to those images, this. is this is astronomy 101. I'm not. telling you anything you don't know. necessarily, but all those stars, all. those galaxies are in the past, hundreds of millions of years ago. We're. just a coincidence of seeing them right.

now, right? Because the light has just. reached us. just reaching reaching us. So, uh that's what's so fascinating to me. This is a snapshot of multiple histories. converging to one point of view. Also, Voyager 1's about to hit the one. light day travel mark, which is a. significant mark, but it's still not. that far in the grand scheme. tell you. when I trip on psilocybin this is what I. love doing. just compre trying to comprehend the. enormity and the beauty of the universe.

I believe the universe is full of love. you know I think that you know. we're built on relationships. and when you have relationships when you. have a quorum of individuals that are. sharing assets. you know you build a community. well You certainly see that with human. beings. The the question is what kind of life. are we experiencing in these other. planets? Like what what is life for.

them? Should we be so uh naive to think. that it went along the exact same linear. path as biological life on Earth? Or is. it completely unrecognizable? And when you know we're dealing with. intelligent life from other planets, maybe they'd be so intelligent they. wouldn't travel and maybe they don't. need to. And maybe they're also dealing. with solar systems that you know we have. as a result of multiple impacts. including the creation of Earth itself, right? There was Earth and there was.

Earth 2. We were hit by another planet. They think that's what created the moon. Like all that stuff leaves debris. It's. all flying. And if it wasn't for. Jupiter, we would have never made it. this far. Absolutely. Never made. That's. our protector. Yep. Absolutely correct. We would have never made it to 2025. We. would have been dust a long time ago. And we have a form of biological myopia. thinking that we need sunlight and. oxygen for life, right? And now we, you know, from Chernobyl, we. know that fungi can use radioactivity. as an energy source. Mhm. We have methane based organisms.

Yeah. Isn't that crazy? Yeah. So methane based organisms. I believe matter gets life. Life becomes. single cells. Single cells form change. They branch. Networks form. Right. And within these networks are. associations of members that exchange. resources. I I don't believe that, you. know, evolution is based on survival of. the fittest. I believe it's the. evolution is based on the extension of. generosity beyond that of your own needs. to build a community of recip of.

reciprocity. Certainly human evolution. I think it's happening all all over with. tigers and giz. I think absolutely. You know, we're. animals. New news. New news. We're. animals for sure. But they're not very. generous. They just try to they're just trying to. eat and survive. There's a great um on Chile there's a. great footage that's amazing of these. orcas aka uh killer whales just. devastating a seal population eating. them. You may have seen this. And after they were satiated, these.

orcas would take the pups and they push. them up on shore. to save them. Just to save them. Well, they're very intelligent, which is one. of the more interesting things about. orcas that they don't kill people unless. they're at SeaWorld. Yeah. Yeah. Which is probably where they should be. killing people. Yeah. I just met a herpatologist and um. I raised snapping turtles when I was a. kid. So, I have the the turtle necklace. I was this very shy boy with a profound. stuttering habit. And but my friends are. wild snapping turtles. And this.

hertologist, he goes, "Well, I had. snapping turtles. They're really mean.". And I had them in my aquarium and they. kept on trying to bite me. I go, "No. [ __ ] Sherlock." You know, I had wild. snapping turtles in a pond and I went. down there. I fed them celery and. lettuce. This is when I'm 8 years old. I. had them for about seven years. Um, I. grew up with successive families. And at. first they would try to bite me and. things like that. And then I realized if. I put out a little salad bowl for them, they wouldn't fight each other because. they're not try to bite me. They would. try like I want the carrot from Paul.

Right. Right. When I put a little salad bowl. there, they kind of all came together. and they cooperated. And so I my one I. just reflecting on this yesterday. My. one of my fondest memories when I walk. towards the pond and boop, they pop up. Oh, Paul's here. Paul's here. Oh, that's so cool. Yeah. So, snapping turtles are an. amazing ability. They can snap flies out. of the air. Oh, they're so fast. They're so fast. I saw this video of one uh eating a. fish. They put a fish in front of it. like a dead fish and it eats it so fast. it just disappears. It just Yeah.

It just snaps its neck forward, engulfs. this fish, swallows it all, and it looks. like a magic trick. Oh my gosh. You have to look at it in slow-mo to. even see the actually action of it. There's so much sea life there. The. British British Columbia is just full of. sea life. It's certainly amazing. Incredible place. Yeah. And I love it. I love it being. there. So, you know, this is a beautiful planet. Where we live, there's no garbage. And.

my visitors come to visit us on on our. island. I said, "Have you noticed. there's no garbage anywhere, not in this. only not ditches, anywhere.". Uh, it's because the ethos of that. community is to take care of the. ecosystem. That's beautiful. And that can be done. if you have a small community of. like-minded people. of like-minded people. The real issue is. be when it gets to the size of something. like New York City, this becomes this. diffusion of responsibility where you. don't think that you have to be. concerned with all this garbage is on. the ground because there's 20 million.

people walking around. It's just it is. what it is. Keep moving. Or India, I'm just I'm just heart torn. by India. Such a spiritual place and. there's so much garbage. China as well. You know this is. but the India thing is nuts because uh. it's also in these areas where a lot of. the stuff that people buy that's. inexpensive in America is being. manufactured and these factories whose. the back of the factory opens to this. river and this river is completely. choked with plastic and garbage and just.

junk and all the stuff that they don't. want they just throw into the river and. there's so much stuff in the river that. I guess they just feel like well it's. not like I'm polluting something that's. not already polluted. I'm just adding to. whatever is there. This is just what we. do. And so they've developed this. culture of like constant consistent. pollution. Yeah. We all need to, you know, even. teaching our children constantly to pick. up. But there are communities that are. examples of doing it right. And this community that I'm associated.

with, I'm just so proud of them. I. wanted to talk to you about something. that you said earlier because you were. talking about human species and or or. species and love and cooperation and all. the different things and I said you. uniquely with us yes love and random. acts of kindness and community are. incredibly important but what do you. think why do you think we're so. different than all the other species on. the planet and what do you think that. psilocybin like do you subscribe to.

McKenna's theory I know we've probably. talked about this before we talked about. it as a standalone podcast. This is. probably this is what I like and for all. your listeners out there, this is a. never- ending story. It just keeps on. getting better. The most exciting thing that has come. out in the scientific literature in the. past two years is that psilocybin. stimulates neurons to grow, right? That is incredible. It docks with the. 5HT 5HT2A receptor is what serotonin. uses. But psilocybin.

um also docks with track B receptors. that lead to proliferation of neurons. There's there's neurogeneration, neuro. regeneration, neurogenesis and. neuroplasticity. Um there are four. distinct areas and psilocin does all of. those. Not as much in neurogenesis, but. we have done pluroplotin stem cells of. humans, dosed them with psilocin. laboratory. We have a DEA license, I. have a DEA license, very very strictly. controlled, but we can actually see the.

proliferation of neurons compared to. controls. M. um so this is where this is why I want. to emphasize to all scientists. especially older scientists that are. stuck in their wisdom that are very. comfortable with their knowledge base. and younger scientists come up with. these ideas and you know. dismiss them. Yeah. It's is that be more circumspect. because what Dennis and and Terrence. McKenna postulated. you know and I disagree with lots of. Terren's ideas. Time wave zero was my my.

total [ __ ] Um, but Terrence and I. were very good friends and we laughed a. lot and that's I that spirit of. camaraderie where you can criticize. someone and laugh at the same time. Yeah, that's a higher level of intelligence. Well, that's also what happens when you. abandon the ego, right? The ego is. consistently abandoned through. psychedelic experiences. You're much. more likely to laugh. I think psilocybin is an Einstein. molecule. I think the tryptoines in. general are Einstein molecules. Uh the.

work by Gold Dolden uh is just fantastic. also associated with John's Hopkins of. the critical window. Um and this is why. Ibagane has has gotten such traction. The critical window with Ibagane there's. a long window where you're able to. uh repattern your behavior to break. addiction. Uh with psilocybin there's a critical. window. DMT is very very short because. of the short uh the short period. The. critical window typically is at typ at.

at the peak of the experience and just. as you're over the hump you know going. down. But one patient described it very. very well who was an addict and the. patient said before the psilocybin. experience they were literally stuck in. a rut. stuck in a rut and they visually. saw themselves on a ski slope going down. the ski slope again and again again. stuck in the rut. Yeah. And then after the psilocybin it's like. someone groomed the landscape.

the hill. and they were free. and they were free to of to go. elsewhere. Yeah. And then Josh Seagull this past. year from uh uh from Washington. University published a study that. specifically showed in real time neurite. uh dendritic branchings of neurons under. the influence of psilocybin in real. time. I think psilocybin and which. becomes psilocin what docks with your. receptors. Psilocybin stable. Psilocin. is not. Silibin defphosphorilates into.

psilocin. It crosses into your into your. receptors goes into it stimulates inside. the nucleus of cells that cause cell. division. And this is mind-boggling. I. think this is why high doses of. psilocybin great for revoly experience. for perhaps breaking addiction. But what. about the near normals? We all suffer. from neurodeeneration that's age related. besides Alzheimer's and you other forms. of dementia that are toxin or disease. related in self as a disease you could.

argue age being one but neurodeeneration. is a fact of life as we age and. neuropathies occur and the neuropathies. from the constriction of the peripheral. nervous system vaso constriction etc. silicin is not only anti-inflammatory. but neurogenerative and to have this. coupled together. I think that the. neotropic vitamins of psilocybin, you. know, as a daily consumable is something. that has a great future potential. Of.

course, we need to study this, but. long-term clinical studies are. inherently very expensive. A short time. stay in a hospital for one, you know, huge event may be expensive for that. day, but it's easier to design a. clinical study that has a short period. than a long period. I think that we're. beginning to see now we think about 8. million Americans consumes psilocybin. this in 2023 according to the Rand. report. What was the reduction in crime. with those 8 million people?

If we could have studied that. right. and then and there are retroactive. studies you know analyses that show a. reduction of crime associated with. psilocybin use but in real time that's. something I'm very excited about. Could. you reduce crime rates? And moreover, when you're immunologically. uh when you're depressed emotionally, you're immunologically depressed. Yes. And when you're happier, you're more. creative, you're exercising, your immune. system is upregulated. Right. So the community immunity from. psilocybin,

yeah, I think is a huge potential. There's a. crossover directly between your mental. your neuroscape and your im imunological. state. unquestionably. Right. the the. diminishing of stress. and this is why. found benefits physiologically. Yeah. Clinical study just came out uh. compass pathways you know did treatment. resistant uh depression they had an. analysis that came back out that showed. modest increase or decrease in. depression. Um but they were doing. treatment resistant depression and and.

you know congratulations for them for. putting the money the money where their. mouth is and did doing the study but. treatment resistant depression is the. failure of two anti-depressive drug. drugs and therapy and so but major. depressive disorder is a much bigger. bucket and so I think there are some. extreme conditions that we're not going. to find the signal from the noise that's. significant enough to make a big. difference but the idea of titrating. psilocybin or psilocin maybe after a.

hero's journey and then by act of. re-reme remembering you revisit those. same neurological pathways that gave you. an advantage by taking psilocin or. psilocybin the act of taking it again. you're re-remembering and then you can. nurture these neurons I think psilocybin. could be nutrients for the neurons. well let's uh in effort to make this a. standalone podcast let's explain what. we're talking about cuz what we're. talking about is Terrence's stoned ape. theory and his theory involved.

a lot of contributing factors. um one of. them being climate change. And the. theory was that as the rainforest. receded into grasslands, you get more. undulate animals and they leave behind. poop and that these uh lower primates um. find these mushrooms uh that are growing. on the poop and they experiment with. them and that the ones that did. increased visual acuity. They became.

more amorous. they they were more likely. to breed. Uh more creative, the ability. to form sentences, glossoleia, associate. sounds with objects and and and concepts. and that this is probably how language. formed among among humans and Terren's. connection to that when you look at the. timeline of when this was happening, when we know this was happening, which. coincides with the growth of the human. brain, which over a period of 2 million. years doubled in size, which is pretty. phenomenal. Uh two Yeah. 200,000 years it increased.

massively. So two million years on the. outer on the outer limits, 200,000 in. the inner inner limits. So in the inner limits what was the the. amount of growth inund I think it was 40. 50% something something substantial. 200,000 years 50%. And what time period. was this? Well 200,000 years ago. 200,000 years ago there was a jump and. but like homo sapiens in this form have. existed more than 200,000 years though. right? No, no,

no. Homo homo sapiens are are relatively. recent. You know, I I I look at the the. the estimates go back and forth. depending on what experts you're. consulting and whatnot, but the from. homoctus to homo sapiens was a was a. radical jump that was fairly recent. So, I was under the impression it was more. than 300,000 years ago. It could be. could be 200,000 could be 400,000 but. it's it's you know we are our. enlargement of our brain is rel. relatively recent. and to give more context um Dennis.

McKenna and I were just together um. I love that dude. Dennis McKenna is a fantastic friend and. scientist and he's such a good man. well he does such a brilliant job of. explaining the mechanism behind the. stone ape theory that you know like. Terrence had a great way of talking he. was so interesting to listen too and he. had these wonderful ideas, but Dennis is. like much more of a hardcore scientist. Dennis is a science was a scientist and. his brother. breaks it down. was a philosopher. Yeah. Um and the dentist uh uh McKenna Academy.

is a nonprofit. I'm I'm just promoting. it just because I think they do really. really good work. Um. but this is, you know, the 23 primates eat mushrooms. Uh almost all mushrooms have maggots in. them. Most primates eat maggots. So. finding the mushrooms for maggots for. food, for protein, you two things can be. true. Right. Right. You can find the. maggots, eat the mushrooms, and then get. high as a community. Right. Um but all these again, this is an.

example about the, you know, an example. of the art that we see thousands of. years ago. We can debate this in the. past, but we can test this. This is a. testable hypothesis. It's a theory now. It's not a hypothesis. We know that. psilocybin stimulates neuron. proliferation. Terrence did not have the. sci and Dennis did not have the. scientific evidence for that right 30. years ago. We now have the evidence for. it now. Terrence and Dennis McKenna. should go down in evolutionary biology. as the as the two individuals that who.

could see in the far event horizon way. before the scientific method. How did. they come up with that? Because they. were tripping on mushrooms. Yeah, exactly. That's why scientists using psychedelics. is a quantum leap. You know, it's how. how PCR was invented. Carrie Mullis had a trip on LSD. Crick and DNA and Steven Jobs. Silicon Valley is fueled by psychedelic. thinkers who are become more creative. and we I I think we have a crisis in. creativity and psilocybin is a way for.

us to become smarter, more congenual, more collaborative. I couldn't agree more. Yeah. And I think we can this combines. psychedelics with AI. We have an. opportunity for the quantum leap in and. the evolution of the human species. Do would you mind explaining time wave. zero because we kind of gloss over that. too. Hey big so such a skeptic. Time wave zero is an algorithm that. Terrence in one of his stone moments I. think. Um Terrence is the only person.

that I met who could smoke me under the. table and stand up and give an. incredibly perfect lecture. I don't know. how he could do it. Um, but timewave. zero, and I'm sorry for those people who. are time wave zero experts. You can. criticize me if you wish, but I admit my. ignorance to a degree. Is an algorithm. that was created that would predict. events in history, would attract novelty, would attract novelty and episodic. events that change the course of human. history, right? He didn't have the birth of Jesus Christ. as a significant event. He was sort of anti-Christian. I said,

Terrence, I don't care if you're. Christian or not. The birth of Jesus. Christ was a huge friaking phenomenon. It changed the course of history, right? And then he had. uh time wave zero would end on 20. December 12th, 2012. And that's what he. predicted. December 21st. Yeah. December 21st, 2012. And that. didn't happen either. I used to have a license plate that said. 12112. Yeah. So, but but you know it's what I. like about Terrence and I would. encourage all protective scientists if. you don't worried about tenure.

If you got a thick skin, dare to be. wrong because you dare to be wrong a. dozen, 20, 30 times, you might be. hitting one or two concepts that is. gamechanging, right? Don't let the fear of failure inhibit. your creativity. But that's a giant problem in the. academic world is that people who do. fail get attacked. and people and especially with they step. outside the lines, they propose. something that's novel, they get. attacked. This timewave zero thing like. you you used to be able to get it. It.

was an actual program that you could. download and you could run it on your. own computer. Yeah. And that's the thing I talked to. Terrence. I go, "Well, what happens when you know there like. the birth of Jesus Christ?". How did you come up with that concept? Did you ask him about that? No, I never figured it out. He goes, "We'll just adapt the algorithm.". I said, "Okay, then it's not really. it's just something that's constantly. adapting itself.". So, anyhow, it was a it's a thought. experiment. And um. and obviously Dece I wish he was alive. on December 21st, 2012. I'll be like,

"And. and what?". But maybe we're wrong. Maybe in that. timeline, something did happen on. December 21st, 2012 that will be. recognized in the future. I I doubt it. But. well, this is what I'm we're getting to. One of the things that did happen in. that time frame is the ubiquitous use of. social media. It kind of started peaking. around 2012. I think there was a real problem with. that with with the human race and I. don't necessarily think we recognize.

things that are constant. You know, I think we just get accustomed. to things and human beings are very. adaptable and we just accept things that. this is the way it is. But before that. time, you know, when you you get to like. 200, you know, just go to 2000, people. weren't carrying their phones around. staring at them all day. There's a. profound change in how we interface with. the world. You know, in Korea now on the sidewalks, they have red bars that light up to tell. you to stop. Oh boy. Because too many people are walking out.

into the street. just standing there staring phones. So. now they look down and they see that. they're so addictive. It's so crazy that. we haven't re anything that's that. addictive can't be good for you. I don't. care if you're getting information all. day long and and in the sense of social. media, you're getting negative. information all day long. So, it changes. the perspective. Tremendous amounts of clickbait. Well, that was the problem we were. talking about about the media earlier, about the media fueling this stuff. That's their job. Unfortunately, in this. day and age where no one's buying print.

journalism, their their job is to get. you to click on something. And so they. have these crazy headlines. We need to really have a thoughtful. discussion about all the issues that we. are facing today without being. reactionary. Yes. And I think we need to disengage. with these things that are clickbait. Just don't click on them. The way these. things operate is the more you click on. them, the more valuable they are, right? That's that's the whole business model. Just don't engage with them. And we need. to teach people that. Like this is an.

important thing. Don't engage with. something that's trying to manipulate. you. Don't engage with these narratives. that are being put forth by corporations. that value your fear. They want you to. be in this constant state of anxiety and. fear. And you they want you to be a. dutiful consumer and that's it. And that's why Yeah. That's why high. doses of psilocybin is not a very good. uh business model. Exactly. As Michael Pollen likes to say. But it is a good business model for. overall human compassion and growth in.

the community. And then of course medium and micro. dosing. Um really popular practice right. now increasingly popular is a high dose. of psilocybin once a year and then micro. doing just before you go to sleep. or a medium dose like the museum dose. Museum dose. I like it. You guys are such you're such a [ __ ]. mushroom head that you have like museum. doses. This is a movie dose. This is a. concert dose.

A date night dose. Uh Graham Hancock and. I and and and and. um. um and some friends went to a museum in. the British Museum and uh and but any. museum dosers just tend to you can. notice them because they wear sunglasses. inside. because otherwise they're pupils. trying to keep it together. Keep it. together. But the idea of taking a museum dose. quote unquote or a micro dose before. sleep is that's when you're. regenerating. Uh-huh.

That's when your body and your brain. is regenerating. So, that is really. really interesting is taking th those. those. Well, that makes sense. Especially from. like an anti-aging protocol for the mind. and it's also safer. Yeah. Right. You're in bed. You're not going anywhere. You're not going anywhere. Yeah. Tractor. That's why I think. clinical studies that look more and more. at reducing the expense having people. take the dose of medicine. in this case just before sleeping.

they're in a safe place. You know, I had. uh Bernie Sanders on the podcast. yesterday and one of the things that we. talked about quite a bit was um what's. going to happen with people when. automation takes over, when AI and. automation take over and so many people. are not working anymore. And we we both. kind of agree that universal basic. income is really the only way to. mitigate the disastrous effects of. people losing their income, losing their. jobs. And I think it's a good thing. But.

the problem with universal being basic. income is that just giving people a. check, they don't have they don't have. meaning anymore. They don't feel like. they have a purpose. They don't feel. like they have an identity. You know, if. you're your whole life you've been, you. know, ex whatever the job is that gets. taken away and you recognize they're. being really good at your job and you. take pride in that and you're known by. your co-workers as like, hey, go to. Paul. He's the best. He's he'll take. care of it. He he knows what he's doing. Then all of a sudden that job.

disappears. How do people find value and. how do they switch their perspective? And talking to you today I think is. perfect because I think if there's. anything that could help us through this. journey that could help people make this. transition which appears to be. inevitable where artificial intelligence. is going to do a far better job at a lot. of menial tasks that people have been. doing for an occupation for a long time. to find a search for meaning to have to. find some other way to realize value in.

life and not just to be a cog in the. feel of this capitalist society, but. instead maybe psilocybin would allow. people to completely change their. perspective of how they exist in this. world. And that you've been kind of. trapped in this society where it values. numbers. It values a constant growth for. the shareholders. And it it values what.

you can see in your bank account that's. like not even real. It's all this. digital money that's somewhere. Maybe. psilocybin would be the best answer for. how do people make this transition and. reacquire a sense of meaning, right? I mean, do you want to spend your. whole life on an assembly line or do you. want to be out more in in nature with. your children? That's why I think nature. relatedness, you know, is is is a mental. health advantage. You know, the more that we can relate to. nature. Yes. Yes. And um literally kind.

of go back to our roots, you know, re-engaging nature. I think this is and. then. and that would give you a sense of. purpose instead of the job. and also protection of of the the. mothership. But we've gotten so. accustomed to this idea that your. purpose is to make money. Your purpose. is to make a living. And we've accepted. that even though it's a fairly new. concept in terms of the age of the. earth. You know, this is a human created. concept, but it's it overwhelms our.

day-to-day existence. It doesn't have to. though, you know, but we in this. structure, the way we find ourselves. now, you take away meaning, you take. away a purpose in life, and you just. give people a government check every. month that covers everything. Covers. your food, covers your rent, covers you. don't need to make money anymore because. everything is automated. Everything is. cheap. AI controls it all. So, what was Bernie's answer to that? He. didn't have one. Yeah, he didn't know. Um, but I don't. know if Bernie's had any experiences in.

that regard and he didn't have that. perspective, but talking to you right. afterwards might be the answer because. this is an inevitable journey that we're. on of of a revolutionary change in how. society is structured. But it doesn't. have to be negative. The problem is the. people that are in control of AI and. these systems, the people that will. benefit from them incredibly in a. financial sense, those people are not. having these experiences. And if they. were having these experiences, they.

could be the only ones if if you have a. benevolent person in extreme position of. power, they're probably the only people. that can really do something about that. And I think it's very important that. they hear this that you realize like. you're wasting this valuable moment in. life trying to acquire money when we. have this very unique opportunity to. connect together in a way that people. probably used to do on a regular basis.

in the past but was always suppressed by. the powers that be because of its. revolutionary powers. If psilocybin. increases creativity and creativity. increases happiness and happiness. upregulates the uh immunity of the. community. Yeah. It's hard to be a dictator. Yeah. Yeah. You got to pe the dictators want. people in constant conflict fighting. against each other and you know and they. take advantage of that. in a sense. You know that that an. analogy that the patients had had about. being in a rut.

You know maybe we're in a societal rut. Maybe we certainly are. So this is the. opportunity as for to be able to groom. the landscape and to find new ways of of. living and behaving. I I might be the only way it might be. the only way we can get through this. Because if you if you think about what. this problem is, the problem is is uh. the way we interface with reality. That's really what it is. If if we're we. have been interfacing with reality a. very particular way, showing up at work. every day, doing our job, getting a. paycheck, employee of the month, yay.

That's how you interface reality most of. your life. and then all a sudden you're. met with this profound technological. change that's going to eliminate your. job. What there needs to be some sort of. a profound experience that reintegrates. you with the mother like lets you know. like this is this is something people. made. This is something that people made. and most of the people that made it. weren't having psychedelic experiences. and they're building cities and they're. building skyscrapers and they're. polluting the river and they're doing. all this stuff and it doesn't mean that. this is how we're supposed to do it. Exactly. And I again I want to reiterate.

I think we have a crisis in creativity. I think psilocybin and these other. psychedelics stimulate creativity. Look. at look at Alex and Allison Gray's work. I mean some of the best psychedelic. artists in the world. and nicest people. Alex is like like he's a role model for. like being like being just a kind nice. sweet person. And Alex gave me some of the the best. advice I've ever received. And I it's. give Alex Gray total credit for this.

And I ask him, you know, like this is my. eighth book. Oh my god, it's so much work to write a. book. I didn't use any AI writing this. book. I wrote the whole thing myself. And I asked Alex, you know, you're so. prolific. How do you do it? He goes, I. had one realization. Every day I go up to that canvas with my. brush and I commit to making one stroke. and then three four hours later. he's still at the canvas. It's that Yes.

which is just that that tipping point, right? Yeah. Calling the muse. Yeah. Just doing it. And. Presfield talked about that in the war. of art. Have you read that book? No. I've got copies of it. He sent me a. whole box because. back in Los Angeles, I used to keep a a. stack of them on the table and hand them. out to people. It's all about creating. things and resistance and this this. thing that we all have where we we're. reluctant to sit down and actually do. the work. But if you could just commit. and he would he calls it the muse. He. like and many many creative people over.

time have called upon the muse and this. concept and it sounds like airy fairy to. a lot of people but if you believe in it. and if you you actually do that thing. where you call upon the muse it actually. works. So whether or not it's real is. irrelevant. Well, I have I have a muse and my. partner asked me, you know, a few a few. months ago, how many more hours do you. have to work on this book? She saw me. working work work on the book for two. and a half years. And I said, oh, more.

than 500 hours. She goes, 500 hours? It's just so much discipline. And if you. anyone any writers of books, any people. built a house, if you comprehended the. enormity of their project, you probably. wouldn't even start, right? Yeah. I can't think like that. You just. got to think about the process. But the process and so I had this little. voice in my head um that I would wake up. and I didn't want to feel guilty about. it, but I you know, I had this little. voice saying, "Work on the book, Paul.

Work on the book. Work work on the book. Work on the book. Work on the book. Work. on the book. Work on the book." my I. could say it worked in the book so fast. because I have reiterated it in my head. hundreds of times. that it became sort of my muse. It. became sort of a fun muse. Um I think we. all have these little voices that kind. of you know say you know get it right. stuts, you know, wake up. I think so. too. And I think that's good. And I don't. think that's you know psychosis. And I. think that's something that we all have, these little voices that are trying to. help us to be better. And. yeah, whether it's internal or external,

whatever it is, you can have a voice. It's like working out. The discipline of. being able to to to make sure that. you're the best that you can be. So, it's a very exciting time that we live. in. There's a mushroom revolution. happening all over the planet. I think there's a a psychedelic. revolution that's happening all over the. planet. I think it's happened over the. last 20 years and I think it's happened. because the internet. I think that's a. big factor because what they did in the.

1970s by, you know, what the Nixon. administration did, which is essentially. to squash the civil rights movement and. the anti-war movement. What they did. really [ __ ] up society for a long time. and it put in people's heads that this. is how we're supposed to be, that these. laws that are in place make sense and. that they're there in order for society. to function at its optimal levels. It's. just not true. And uh unfortunately like. a lot of things that get that propaganda. gets pushed and people start accepting.

that propaganda as fact. It takes a long. time relatively in our lifetimes to sort. of recognize that this is not right and. this is not how we should have been. living the entire time. This just is we. were trapped. We were trapped in the. system. And because of the internet and. because of conversations and because of. people like you that talk about this. openly and many many others as well, we're all contributing to this base of. knowledge where people are in their car. right now sort of reconsidering their. perspective. They're at at the gym right.

now on the treadmill thinking about this. going, "Yeah, why do why do we allow. these human beings that have never had. these experiences to tell us that these. experiences are not just not allowed?". But if you get caught with these things, you'll be put in a cage. Yeah. Well, because we are we are those of us. from the psychedelic community who. advocate for the freedom of. consciousness as a basic civil right, we. are by definition disruptors to. authoritarianism. Yeah. So you know this is what this is why I.

think unfortunately in many cultures it. become restricted to just the small. group of priests cognizante they wanted. to control and have gates to uh to. heaven. or the control consciousness and. so I'm I think that you know what's so. exciting about psilocybin and psilocybin. mushrooms as a practice and hunting. mushrooms in general. It just gives you. a quality of life that's just a. gamecher. Yeah. Now with I naturalist.

and everything that you can do. It's. just getting people out in nature with. their children. Child children are closer to the ground. so they find more mushrooms. Yeah. They're be, you know, they're away from. the business and their parents and the. phones, you know, some phones, but you. get them involved and. inter interacting with nature. It's just. uh it's just really it's like the. telescope and then um seeing all the. galaxies and. I think interacting with nature is a. vitamin. Yeah. I think it's just it's like you know how.

we get vitamin D from the sun. I think. we get something that hasn't been. measured yet from interacting with. nature. We we know that there's an. allevi you can you can actually study an. alleviation of stress levels from people. that go out into nature. and this this. thing that we're experiencing, we just. don't know how to measure it. Yeah. You know, and I I think it's a real. thing. One of the things that makes me very. happy and hopeful now is that you're. seeing this um.

this openness to psychedelics that's. coming from more right-wing people. And. it was always a thing of the left. It. was always a thing of hippies. and and. it was dismissed by people on the right. as people that were trying to avoid. reality. They were trying to, you know, escape reality. They couldn't handle. reality. They weren't disciplined. They. weren't, you know, if they were. hardworking people, they wouldn't be. wasting their time getting high on. drugs. There's that thought. I think one.

of the bridges to that is the benefit. that it's had for soldiers, for soldiers. and for people that are first. responders, people that suffer from. PTSD. And that has trickled down into. the general population of the people on. the right, which is how you get a guy. like Rick Perry that is all of a sudden. becoming this very strong advocate for. Ibagane and having it passed in Texas. So the the initiative passed, which is. huge. It's huge. I. that's it's a promising step in the. direction of understanding that a lot of.

the division that we have in this. country is artificial. It's. manufactured. It is. I out of the blue a country music. singer which I had no idea who she was. Casey Musgraves, she's superstar in. country music. I'm out of the loop. I she reached out to me and um she had a. psilocybin experience that inspired her. She's has an album called Deeper Well. that's just amazing. I was not in the. country music until I listened to her. and she reached out to me because of her.

psilocybin experience. Um, and we rent, we decided to do Sing for Science. We. sold out the Ryman Theater in Nashville. in three hours. Oh wow. 2500 people. These are country music. people. 2500 people. Three hours. Unfortunately, she was in Mexico. She fell and she. broke her rib. So, we had to cancel the. concert until September 18th or the Sing. for Science. But that is an example. And. yeah, well, I think my friend Sturgil. Simpson sort of opened up the door for. psychedelics and country music with. turtles all the way down. Yep.

You know, he basically wrote a song. about God and psychedelics. It's um you know, I. That was a country song. And everybody's. like, "Hey, what the hell's going on?". It's funny because psychedelics uh build. bridges that marijuana doesn't. It's um. it's I met a lot of people who would. never smoke a joint, but the idea of. doing a slow mushroom sound like fun to. them, right? Well, marijuana is also. associated with lazy people and. narrwells and stinky people with bad.

ideas, you know, unfortunately. And I. think uh you know, look, there's a one. of the things that's interesting is the. jiu-jitsu community is uh there's a lot. of stoners in the jiu-jitsu community. A lot of people using psychedelics for. athletic performance. Oh yeah. Well, I know a bunch of people. who have fought on mushrooms. Yeah. You. know, I have a friend who was a. world-class kickboxer who had some of. his greatest performances while he was. fighting on mushrooms and he said he. could see what the guy was going to do. before he did it.

Yeah. This is the indigenous use of. SoulCon is to see into the future. That's one of the thing advantages I. think I've had also been able to. prognosticate um into the future. There's a there we had this. extraordinary individual um told me a. story which I I think I have right, but. I want to share it with you. There's a. game that's very common. It's even in. the Philippines, but in Canada, it's a. German game eventually. And the idea is. you put nails on a block of wood and use.

an ice pick and you have to hammer the. nail in with one hit. And each time in a. bar or party or whatever, people throw. down money, $5, $20, etc. A nail on an ice pick. So you have the. point of the ice pick. You got to hit. that nail at the very point. Sink it and sink it all the way into the. wood. So, of course, you go around, people are drinking, etc. Um, so the. story as I remember him telling me is. that he went to the bathroom. He's not a. toker. He doesn't smoke pot, but someone. say, "Hey, you want some mushrooms?" And.

they're playing this game, and there was. a a bunch of his friends were gathered. and and he goes, "Oh, sure. I'll try. some mushrooms." So, he ate some. mushrooms. And he came back and he's the. the circle was there and people were. betting, "Hey, come over and join us. Join you know, and he watched for a. while, never had played this game, and. and then he started getting higher and. higher and and they said, "Come on, it's. your turn." So, he kind of looked at the. nail. I mean, this is really hard to do. Looked at the nail and looked at the. nail and focused on it. He said he had.

such clarity of focus that everything. else was blanked out. He looked at the nail and he just. thought they would connect rather than. hitting it. They would just connect. Oh, bam. slammed the nail down on their. first attempt. People went, "Whoa, incredible." So they put down each. person put down more money going around. So they came around, everyone's missing, everyone missing. Some people. occasionally hit it a little bit, you. know, but came around, came around to. him. Now he's getting higher on the. mushrooms, right? And he's looking at.

it, looking at it, and he goes. bam, slams it again. People going, "No. way." Right? This is impossible. Right? So now, you know, there's a lot of money. being piled up on the table here. They're coming around and everyone's. going, "Impossible. Not going to happen. Can't do it a third. time in a row." Looked at it laser. focused. God bam. Slam it again. Now. people are losing their [ __ ] right? They're like, "What is going on here?". And said, he said, "Really to [ __ ] with.

one guy who was just out of his mind. that he could do this three times in a. row." He went around again and this time. he says, "I'm going to really blow his. mind." So he focused on the nail. Focused on nail. had the hammer, looked. at him, bam, slammed it again. while he's looking. and nailed it. Yeah, literally nailed. it. So, so these examples of. Well, that brings you to the stone date. theory. Part of the concept. Well, kind of the concept is you, you. know, with an intense focus, right? You know, and many years I I I have two.

black belts. I had schools for 30 years. Black belt in Taekwondo and Hano. I was. in Shonuru. u Gojuru. Uh and then taekwond do and. then hango which is like hapkido. Um but. that idea of having a three-dimensional. perspective. Mhm. One of my best, one of my fun. experiences, I was in the dojang or dojo, but Josh, Japanese dojang as Korean. And u I had. my first black belt and and uh uh my.

head instructor was over there talking. at someone and then he had a baseball. and he he and I heard later what he. said. He I told my friend, watch this. He threw a baseball at me. My peripheral. vision boom. I just caught the baseball. and you know just before it hit my head. But that idea of having that. consciousness surrounding that's why. athleticism with medium doses minor. doses of psilocybin I think you can. train uh your neurons.

to be able to have this peripheral. awareness that's extremely important. It. also alleviates the anxiety that comes. before performance because a lot of. people like to use it before sparring. because sparring is kind of scary for. some people. Yeah. But let's be clear. This is like. the 8020 principle, maybe the 9010. principle. It's not going to work for. the majority of people. There are. exceptional individuals who can actually. benefit from this. So, I'm not we're not. disclaimer. Yeah. No, no disclaimer there. I don't. want to make. No, none of the I drove this race car.

Listen, don't take any of our advice. down. But we're just talking about these. things because they there are anecdotal. stories that are they're fascinating and. I. and anecdotal stories are like case. studies in medicine. You get enough of. them that you want to test this. Again, this is a testable hypothesis or theory. in modern times, right? I coordination, you know, so psychoot enhancement, you. know, and. this is why when you know the stamina. stack is it speaks to this. We published.

in nature scientific reports and a. combination of psilocybin uh nasin and. lion's mane increased psycho motor. ability of tapping in 10 seconds from 46. to 66 taps. That's a lot. Uh that's a lot in in in 10 seconds. over 30 days. So people can argue about. it, but the results are the results. You. know, when you're talking about. depression, anxiety, that's subjective. But I'm really interested in the psycho. motor benefits of psilocybin with an ad. mixture to enhance yeah you know its.

performance. I think the root thing is. psilocybin. um and being able to regenerate neurons. is something I think is really important. uh for us now with glyobblasto. you know which unfortunately Terrence. did die from that that's uncontrolled. you know proliferation of neurons in the. brain. Yeah there sure there's contra. indications. Do you think there's. something that's connected to that? This. is. No, not I personally don't. No. Why not? Um, just because I. I don't have evidence to the contrary. I.

don't have evidence that also suggests. that. I see no correlation. N of one is. not, you know, it's again it's there's. no. because it's not a common thing amongst. people that are using psilocybin. But if you had 8 million people in the. United States, you know, um, conducing. psilocybin, again, you have a data set. Right? So like it's not like cigarettes, right? We see cigarettes, we know you. smoke cigarettes, there's a higher. likelihood that you're going to get lung. cancer, right? It's very clear. So we've. known that over time. The problem with.

psilocybin is it's been so taboo. And so. we don't have real data. We don't have, you know, but there's 235. clinical studies on psilocybin at. clinicaltrials.gov right now. Isn't that amazing? 235. Could you have imagined that 25 years. ago? There was none. Impossible. Yeah. None. And there are for many. indications, many different targets from. addiction, cigarettes, you know, alcohol, opioid use. to dementia to Parkinson's, Alzheimer's,

etc. Yeah. So there's, you know, I think psilocybin. has a PR problem. It sounds too good to. be true, but you know, sometimes things. can be true that have but but the reason. why I think that there's 235 clinical. studies is because basically it's. improving your neuroscape. You're improving the neurology. Everything that we're using right now is. based to our health of our nervous. system, right? And in the neuroscape, if we can enrich. the neuroscape, then that has.

elaborations into everything that we do. And the fact is it's coupled with. anti-inflammatory activities and. neurogenesis and neuro regeneration, neurogeneration, neuroplasticity which. is synaptogenesis. The neurons. proliferate and then they shake hands. and then suddenly you have a new. pathway. So. there's anti-inflammatory properties. Silicon has strong anti-inflammatory. properties as well. Interesting. So that's that's just has come out in. the scientific literature. So that's. I wasn't aware of that.

Yeah, that's really interesting. How did. they study that and and what was the. they something called interlucan 6 um. there was a clinical study that was just. published just recently and a. downregulated it's a tumor necrosis. factor in lucan 6 a down regulated. that's an inflammatory cytoine there's. two anti-inflammatory cytoines that are. extremely interesting to us in our. research team I have five PhD scientists. eight full-time scientists that's why I. created my business is to do research.

But interlucan um 10 and interlucan 1 RA. are are anti-inflammatory cytoines. So. when you can upregulate those then it. kind of buffers the inflammatory. effects. And uh and so that's exciting. to find uh these anti-inflammatory that. that's we were approved by the FDA for a. co clinical trial based on the fact that. we published this in the journal of. inflammation research that uh interlucan. 10 and interlucan 1RA were stimulated by.

agarakon and turkey tail mcelium um. grown on rice versus the rice control. So as a peer-reviewed article when you. know the pandemic started the big. concern was if you stimulate the immune. system you could have a cytoine storm. and you could overwhelm you know the. body with many many it's been said many. if not most people die from cytoine. storm is there overreaction of the. immune system uh to to covid and to.

other diseases. So we were able to show. you can augment in the literature uh uh. uh your immune system buffered with the. anti-inflammatory uh properties and that. that sort of resolve the argument of the. the cytoine storm concern. M. um and then now we have a very. successful study that shows that a. garacon and turkey tail mcelium um. enhances the immunity of individuals.

long term six months later mushroom that. you gave me. Yeah, you still have that. Yeah, it's right there. That's a trophy. Yeah. Oh, it's never leaving the desk. That sucker. And this is a a great example because. this is an endangered species in Europe. It's on the red list of extinction. in Europe. It is. in Europe. These are growth rings. So. this one's probably 25 years of age. This is a very nice specimen. Stamus. gave you this. Yes. You gave me this. It's one of the nicest specimens. So these are annual growth rings.

Isn't it cool to see it on the desk? I love it. Thank you. People always ask, "What the hell is. that?". So this is a garacon called. fomytopsuselis, also known as Larissopies. Dascarites. first described it in Greek medicine. 2,000 years ago as elixir adlongum vitam. the elixir of long life. If someone took. a little piece of that and put it in the. ground, would it start making new. agaracon mushrooms? If they had spores, um, it looks like it. goes inside the roots of trees. This one. being as old as it is and being spores.

are probably become not viable. But a. garon has the white form and the brown. form. It goes through this massive. transition as biochemistry. And because. it's endangered and because highly. variable in form, fruit body extracts of. this makes no sense. Why is it. endangered in Europe and not in America? Only grows in old growth forest. Oh. So the sky islands in Europe in Austria. and Slovenia um is is where this still. can be found on larch trees. We now have.

I think 115 strains of agaracon. By far. the largest library in the world. If you. ask me what is my most valuable. possession is my strain library of a. garacon. is a is you know it's a it's a. treasure of strains one out of 20 one. out of a hundred times in the old growth. forest where I find one. So we don't. collect these unless it's going to be. clearcut or we find them on the ground. or if it's on my own property and then I.

take a small piece of tissue. It's the. mcelium that is bioactive for the immune. system. And this is what we found that. we're it's scalable. The mcelium is. scalable. the fruit body extracts or. not. And it's highly variable. Most. people don't know that. Well, they. should know, but most mushrooms are. parasitized by insects and and that's. because the insects spread spores. So, the mushrooms invite insects to come in. So, it can spread spores. It's like. like cortiseps and ants. Yeah. Or like buzz pollination.

That's the weirdest thing when you see. spiders and ants overwhelmed by. cortiseps. Yeah. It's um I like to say cortiseps. has to eat too. Yeah. Well, I mean this. is the cycle of life, right? So, this Agarakon is is in the Bioshield. Bio Defense Program. We, which by the way, this is your company, Host Defense. You have great stuff, man. I I buy your stuff. You gave me a bunch of it, but I buy it. Well, thank you for your support. We. need it. I mean, I'm the only company. that does research that I know of. I.

spend over a million dollars a year in. fundamental research, thinking outside. of the box. Even though traditional. Chinese medicine is fantastic and has a. thousands of year history, all. traditional medicines advanced with new. technologies. That's true across the. board. The invention of invitro. propagation about a hundred years ago. growing mycelium now opens up this huge. opportunity for us to dive into a deeper. well of natural substances that can be.

used as adjunct therapies to enhance. conventional medicine. This is a game. changer. So 115 strains of agarakan. I. submitted eight of them to the bio. shield bio defense program after 911. 2004. My TED talk talks about this and I. found two or three strains highly active. against small pox and also against bird. flu. Um and if you go to national public. radio put stamments and small pox you'll. see a vetted press release you know from. DoD and the head of the bio shield. program Jackris saying that whoops these.

are some of the most significant results. they've ever seen. Wow. The only at 2 million samples. submitted were in the top 10. The only. natural product. Now that's in vitro. So. that in vitro, this is sort of a. timeline. And you don't have boy with a. microphone, do you, Jamie? What is that? You didn't see it? Okay. Boy with a microphone. It's a 42 second clip we found in the. vault. Um, and it talks. It's me with my. son when he's four years old. And I'm on. the phone saying, "I've created this. company to do research. Research is what.

we want to do." Truly, that's the. origins of of what I was trying to why I. created my business. So, I still do. that. So, with the 115 strains, we're. likely to have a super strain uh in our. collection. Pandemics are coming all the. time. We're in a viral storm. There's a. bird flu pandemic where many of us are. so surprised that it has not happened at. a bigger level. But viral pandemics are. also affecting other animals besides. birds and pigs. Mhm.

67% of beehives were lost in Montana. this past year. 67%. Imagine if you had 67% loss of a herd of. cattle or sheep. That's phenomenal. And bird flu is spreading. It's making. the jumps. It is coming, folks. And so. what we want to do is design a clinical. study using a Garacon to test against. bird flu. I'd be interested to see what, if anything, could be done with some of. these mushrooms with chronic wasting.

disease, which is a huge concern among. deer population and and even some other. animals like moose and I think. embedded into a mycelial landscape. Mycelium is everywhere. The interactions. of mcelium and animals, you know, is. elaborate, complex. This is crazy. And. if anyone out here can prove me wrong, please send me the reference. But it. appears I'm the first person to realize. that bees go to rotted logs with.

mycelium for immunological benefit. Really. first person. How is that possible? We. all grew up with Wendy the pooh. I mean. this is mindboggling. It's like again. how it didn't take a stroke of genius. but in my case I had the bio shield. results and then I heard about colony. collapse being vetored primarily by. mites. This past year they identified. the mitoid resistant mites which most. all of them are now are vectors of the. deformed wing virus. Colony collapse is. a threat to food biocurity.

and we found and we published this in. nature scientific reports extract of. polypore mushroom mycelium. protects bees from viruses. We published that in in nature. scientific reports I'm the primary. author. We were able to reduce viruses, the deformed wing virus by I think 879. times in 12 days with one treatment. So that is phenomenal for protecting. food biocurity. That helps all farmers. It helps. And there's a pandemic that's.

spreading. 67% lost, 60% lost generally. across the United States this year. The. worst colony collapse on in history. This will make food prices go up and it. doesn't stop because these viruses are. proliferating throughout the. environment. We found that the polypora. mushroom mcelium grown on grain or grown. on sawdust not only reduces these. viruses but extends longevity and so the. longevity and interesting that this. mushroom is known as elixir adlong vitam. the elixir of long life.

Wow. We are all bees are animals birds are. animals you know pigs are animals humans. are animals we are all I think can have. an imunological benefit from you know in. incorporating these these fungi. Now, we're allowed by the FDA FDA to say. supporting. innate immunity in healthy individuals. We're not allowed to make any disease. claims. Ironically, we can't make that. same claim with bees. We can say extends. longevity, but this is where there's not.

common sense in government. I have an. invention that could save hundreds of. billions of of of dollars that protect. bees from colony collapse and we're. roadblocked by regulations constantly. Oh, reduce viruses in bees. You have. antiviral drug. What is it? No, we. haven't been able to find antiviral. drug. We think it's an entourage effect. and upreguling you know basic immunity. and then your indogenous immune system. in this case of the bees can fight the.

viruses. So, and this I think will. translate into birds into swine. So, there's resistance to these results. No, because your immunity is so. No, no, no. I mean publicly. like you're saying you can't make these. claims, but if you have results, we have fantastic results. I refer. anyone to scientific uh you know to. nature scientific reports. So, could you elaborate on what the. resistance is? Well, the resistance is is complicated. and as political.

The old school conventional wisdom is. that if you have a drug-like effect, then you have an undeclared. drug in your product. Isn't that funny? Yeah. Nature. So, even though even though it's from. nature, even though bees go to rotted. logs for immune benefit, and now there's. five or six papers have been published. on this after my discovery showing that. bees are doing this. their bees are. actually benefiting from mushroom. mcelium. So. we're we're working with Washington. State University, great people there. Uh.

we're working with several funders. We have tested this now over and over. again. This is a this is an outdoor. animal clinical study, double blind. placebo controlled using the mcelium. grown on rice or on sawdust versus the. sawdust of the rice as a control. Clearly clearly a benefit. So this is. scalable. You can't harvest fruit bodies. in a way that you can scale mycelium.

Myelium is exponential increase in my. little mass virtually every week. 10 x. 10 x 10 x 10 10 or even 10 x 100 time. 100 times 100 massively scalable. I. think I have found something as a portal. through my psychedelic experiences. that's fundamental to protecting life on. this planet is that the mycelial. networks are deep reservoirs of being. able to immunologically enhance animals. where we don't have to have these all. these antiviral drugs, antibiotic drugs. Your indogenous immune systems are.

upregulated because over hundreds of. millions of years we've been interacting. with these. is our immuno depression and. suppression because of all the factors. we know bad diet toxins you know you. know lifestyle all those things that. this is highly scalable. So now we're. trying to navigate through the. regulatory landscape. There was this. strange committee that was in secret, met once a year for any new ingredient. to add to bees because bees make honey. Humans consume honey. If we use our. product, they could say we have.

undisclosed drug in the honey. So. whatever. But it also translates to wild. bees. It turns out that apis malefra the. honeybee with the viruses when they have. the viruses they go to flowers. frequented by bumblebees. So colony. collapse is happening not only with a. cultivated honeybee but it spread to. other bees. This is an ecological. catastrophe of a viral pandemic that's. spreading around the world. We have the. solution right now is highly scalable. and this regulatory committee.

disappeared in the past two years. This. is before the last administration was. voted in. But they didn't tell anybody. So we had an application with them for. two years to have this exempt exempted. The. whole committee is gone. whole community. is gone. They didn't even tell us that. it was gone. So, we had two years. spinning our thumbs waiting for them to. respond. This is where we need to have. common sense to come back into. government. This is that where our. government has too many hurdles to. practical solutions that are.

demonstrable, scalable, and affordable. That can the return on investment is. massive. And yet, we fear the FDA. We. fear the USDA because they are stuck in. a rut literally. Maybe they could use. psilocybin here to expand their horizons. because they want to know the mode of. action or the mechanism of action. Well, we didn't know the mechanism of a of. action of aspirin until the 1970s, but. it had a benefit. If it has a clear. benefit and does not cause harm, then.

they should be exempted for scalability. Now, there's another factor to this. which is wonderful. There's a new. startup company called Quorum by my. friend Chris Kravitz. disclosure, you. know, I'm involved with them, but they. have a metarisium, a fungus that kills. mites. So, it's also been approved by. the USDA for thris and other greenhouse. insects. It's not toxic to fish, not. toxic to humans. So, the combination of. using metarisium with the agaracon.

argore. mushroom mcelium uh we think has a great. potential future. So um I I think. there's a lot of resources in nature. that can augment conventional. agricultural practices. There's a lot of. resources in nature that can augment. conventional medical practices. They are. not necessarily an opposition. What is. an opposition. unfortunately and you've alluded to this. is a lot of the pharmaceutical business. interests are not excited about a.

natural product reducing the need for. vaccines. augmenting immunity. There is money in. disease, right? That that's always the problem. Money. You can tell I'm I'm passionate about. this because I have such a deliverable, provable solution that's scalable. I. wonder if. and I'm so my article was published in. 2018 and I tell my research team you. know WTF we were meeting with WSU. constantly and now we have renewed. interest thankfully because of some big.

stakeholders in the almond industry and. every almond you eat was visited a. flower was visited by a bee. The almond. industry is in crisis right now, but. it's not almonds, it's apples, it's. cherries. It's across the board right. now. Agriculture has been severely affected. by these viral pandemics. And these same. viral pandemics are mitigated, I. believe, in commonality with these. polyore mushrooms that grow in the. woods. I wonder if that would also help animal. agriculture because like the ubiquitous. use of antibiotics is a real concern.

with people with with cows and with. chickens. And. we had the there's a viral pandemic of a. former bird flu, not H5N1, uh but another bird flu. I can't. remember. I think it was H7 and two uh. in Iowa and Minnesota about 10 years. ago. They were euthanizing millions and. millions of chickens and turkeys and. ducks. You can look this up. There's an. organic farm and we gave one quarter of. a gram of a garacon mcelium per chicken.

in their feed and we became our that. chicken there's two big chicken hens. about 20,000 uh layers birds that lay. eggs um and it became an oasis of. immunity. Those chickens were immune from bird. flu. Wow. A quarter of a gram of this mcelium. Wow. And we protected them. That's incredible. But a crazy thing happened. the USDA uh. had an insurance policy to pay the. chicken growers and they and the chicken.

growers quickly learned that they could. get an insurance check, lay off the. employees, get the cash for lost profits. and so they were not incentivized. I've. I've heard that from people that are. deeply connected to that industry that. there was a bunch of euthanizations. It. didn't have to happen. Didn't have to happen. Yeah. And they did it and they they. inflated this whole concept, you know, because they the numbers got grossly. inflated because. they were euthanizing chickens for. profit. Yeah, bird flu is very serious serious.

issue. Now, I know vaccines are very hot. subject and I know you've spoken on. that. You've had some excellent guests. by the way, excellent guests or. researchers on this. But I just want to. give a a thoughtful discussion. between viruses and vaccines. Which is worse, the virus or the. vaccine? I'm a libertarian. I believe every family, every individual.

has a right to make an informed. decision. The problem that I see with the vaccine. industry, the industrial vaccine, you. know, complex, is the failure to. disclose. I don't think Americans are stupid. I. think Americans become stupid when. they're not informed. My partner's a physician. She goes, "Giving HEP B vaccines to a child makes. no sense. It's a sexually transmitted. disease. Why are you giving a vaccine to.

a 10-year-old?". Right? a baby and in med school when anyone. would mention that why are we doing this. they were vilified. right. vilified shut down it's like what. happened to thoughtful good science it's. just a reasonable question. money happened. it's also these vaccine manufacturers. are immune to the financial consequences. of the side effects. absolutely we need to have full. disclosure. now let me go through a thought. experiment. okay. listen this is my opinion other people.

may just vically disagree with Okay, but. let's do there's two thought experiments. I want to do. First one, million lives were saved with a vaccine. One person dies. Hey, you took it for. the home team. Sorry. One person dies out of a 100,000. Still ratio is pretty good. My mind, my. judgment. Sorry again, you took it from. the home team. One out of 10,000. Okay. Still the ratio is pretty good. Okay.

One out of thousand. Okay. One out of 100. You're making me. nervous. One out of 10. No. That's where. I draw the line. I would say forget it. That's now the the contradiction that we. have, the opposing forces here that we. have is that is it better for society to. have vaccinations to protect the commons. or is it better for you to have an. individual decision for your family to. protect yourself if you want to? If you.

are going to make that decision, you. should have an informed decision, right? Based on the best of science. All. vaccines and all companies should. disclose. what is the percentage of protection. I. have a physician friend who says 30%. protection, but I'm sick for four or. five days. I don't know. That's not. worth it. 70% protection. Okay. All. right. You know, so everyone has to. balance the risk benefit ratio.

But we need real data to be able to. We need real data. We need full. disclosure, right? And for anyone to accuse another. physician and vilify them because they. ask a logical question and they're. humiliated by the medical community is. fundamentally unfair. What happened with. good science? You have to follow the. science. And this is so important. And. that's why I think we're getting this. cacophony, this echo chamber where the. voices that are the loudest tend to be.

the stupidest sometimes and. or the most compromised. Yeah. Most and they drown out a. disscent. Yes. We all should be able to ask for the. data and the information to make an. individual decision. and science shouldn't be this. ideological. or ideologically captured thing. That's why I I hate the term antiaxers. I think it's a pjorative term. I think. is prejudiced. You know what about. people who just want to have. information? Oh, you're an antivaxer. Yeah. Well, it's pushed just to scare.

people into compliance. That's the whole. idea. Having these poratives and you. throw them around and no one wants to be. labeled that and so you immediately get. scared, but enhancing innate immunity and. healthy individuals to keep us healthy. Yeah. How could that be bad? That's that's better. Exactly. Well, that's the other problem. that I had with the pandemic in general. is that metabolic health was never. discussed. It was always there's only. one way out of this and having. conversations with people that you could.

see like visually look at them does not. a metabolically healthy person and these. people are telling you the only way to. health is through a medicine that they. are financially incentivized to push. That's just crazy. And when those are. the prominent voices that are on. television in the media and you're. getting this from politicians and then. on top of that you've literally have the. federal government censoring social. media and not allowing people to have. dissenting opinions including people. from Harvard and MIT and all the people.

in the great Bington study. Why don't we. have an open-source. national database showing the protection. of vaccines and the risk of not getting. one so individuals can make a decision. right. age related all these other factors the. data is there not making that data. available to the public increases. distrust right. and so what the the medical community. has unfortunately done is they've bred a. bunch of denters by not giving full.

access to the information. Well, I think that really heightened. during the pandemic because I don't. think people had that much of a distrust. for vaccines unless they knew someone. who was vaccine injured, unless they. were gas lit and be were told that their. child or someone else that had gotten. vaccine injured that that was not the. cause of it. And those are the people. that were very skeptical and they formed. these tight community, but they were. very scared to be open and public about. it because they were destroyed. You. know, I famously remember Jenny McCarthy. coming out and saying that she believes. her child was vaccine injured and the.

backlash was spectacular. Essentially. destroyed her career. Well, and one experiments are always. like, did it really happen or was it. just a co-occurrence of some other. factor that combined with the event of. the vaccination? I mean, this is where. you need to have high population. studies, but those studies are. available. Why they're cloaked in. secrecy and why are they not made. available? It's money. Yeah, I mean the the the financial. interest is astounding. The amount of. money that's involved in it and the.

amount of money that they spend every. year. They spend $8 billion. The. pharmaceutical drug industry spends $8. billion. just on advertising and on propaganda. every year. That's so much money. And. they're they spend so much money on. television networks. You know, I mean, how many times Anderson Cooper brought. to you by Fizer, you see these ads and. that shapes the narrative. Unfortunately, it does. But let let me again let's be. clear from my point of view. Vaccines.

have done a lot of benefit, but they. don't benefit everyone all the time. Not. all vaccines are the same. Um we have to. be able to delineate a thoughtful. scientific method with disclosed. information. Absolutely. Um that's accessible to everyone so you. can make the best judgment for yourself. and your family. Yeah. You've got to remove this. financial protection that they have from. liability because if they don't have. that, they're going to just jack up the. amount that they give people because.

there's profit in that unfortunately. And then there are vaccines that are. beneficial. Let's find out which ones. they are, which one what what can be. mitigated in terms of like how can you. make your overall metabolic health. better before you even think about any. of these things. We know for a fact that. during the COVID crisis in particular, the people that had the most problem. with it were the people that had. co-orbidities or people that were obese, people that had all sorts of issues. going on because of poor diet, poor.

lifestyle choices, and even, you know, genetic problems. Yeah. One of the immunologists we were. working with told me something I didn't. know is that when you're imunompromised. or imunodepressed, vaccines don't work very well. So they. be those people become reservoirs for. mutation, right? Which is the argument for why you. don't give it to children when they're. babies because their immune system isn't. even functional yet. Yeah. I'm I you know I again the the HEP. B one is a pretty clear example. That's a nutty one. Yeah. But. there's a bunch of nutty ones. But.

the point is the vaccine schedule. If. you look at what we used to take and you. look at what happened when they lost. their liability during the Reagan. administration, all of a sudden the. schedule goes way up. Yeah. And they. start adding things like HEP B and then. you realize like, oh, it's very. profitable to do that. You imagine how. much more money you make if you're. injecting everybody with a HEP B. vaccine. If you sell HEP B vaccines, yeah, simple mathematics. I also have. met people in the pharma industry who. are extremely well-intended, who great.

scientists, but they scientists aren't. the issue, right? They've also confessed to me that they. face these this humiliation, you know, of being ostracized for just. asking questions. But again, full. disclosure, let people make up their own minds. What's the the costbenefit ratio? Is it. one out of a million, one out of 10? You. know, it's also you you should have to show. all the studies, too. You shouldn't just. show the curated studies that you. generated specifically with a goal of. making an efficacy like having a result.

that shows that this is effective. You. if you do 10 studies, you should show. all 10 studies. Yeah. Well, actually that's why clinical. trials.gov. exists, right? Is that we're cherrypicking doing. studies in Bulgaria and in India and. Taiwan and the pharma would choose the. clinical study that supported their. narrow. Exactly. Exactly. And then they could. use deceptive language to show the. efficacy. But what what I'm getting at. is that we have such a reservoir of. potential.

ways of supporting immunity in healthy. individuals in nature, right? That is not pharmabased. That's based on. the entourage effect and say when you. activate the receptors in your immune. system, there's something beneficial. I. believe there's cross talk between the. receptors. the receptors start, oh, something really good is coming down the. pipe and they start um creating an. entourage effect or the collaboration, more receptors are activated that have. collaterally more benefits. And so it.

goes to the homeostasis and the. uplifting of the homeostasis of the. immune system that is a higher ready. state uh of being able to respond and. then conventional medicine can work. better. But using conventional medicine. on imunocmpromised individual asking. their immune system to respond is an. uphill battle, right? Yeah. And it's interesting too. that like natural remedies are. automatically dismissed by people that. think of themselves as intelligent. science-based people. Well, look at Artemis. But isn't it.

weird though that like we we dismiss it, but if you really understand the like. think about how many different. pharmaceutical drugs are formulated. because of discoveries of natural plants. in the rain, the majority of them and the most the. most recent example is the antimmalarial. drug against plasmodium falsaporum from. an armia. uh bush. Um, and it's artissisonin, and. it came from it came from armisia. It's. a plant extract.

Isn't that wild? And and. yet science-based people will. automatically dismiss what you would. call a natural remedy. Even though all. of them, every kind like nothing exists. on Earth that's not really natural. It's. a human nature. I'm in agreement with you. I think that. we're just reinventing molecules that. have been assembled somewhere else. We. think it's that's why the synthetic. biologists I'm honored to get that. reward. Thank you. S Biobet conference.

Um that's what I think really kind of. flipped them on their heads is don't go. down the rabbit hole of excluding. natural products thinking you can invent. a molecule that's going to be better. The the in the theater of evolution, we've tested these natural products over. tens of millions of years, literally our. primate ancestors. And so we've got a. pretty good experential data set there. to be able to see what works and what. doesn't. Many mushrooms, you know, not. many, but some mushrooms are poisonous,

you know, some are edible. It's it's a. weird statistic about, and again, 1 to. 2% fudge factor here, so please don't. attack me all over the the place, but. there's um 1.5 to 5 million species of. fungi. Um there's about 150,000 species of. mushrooms that are estimated. So out of. that five million on the extreme 1.5. million less than 10% 150,000 we've only. identified about 15,000 species. So we. only identified 10% of the mushrooms.

that exist today. Wow. Now interestingly of of those 15,000. species about 1% are poisonous 1 or 2%. One or two% are psychoactive. and uh one to two% are good edibles. So. 97 95 94% whatever the math shows are. there but they're not toxic. But. mushrooms are molecular wizards. These. are pharmaceutical factories that are. creating huge numbers. And we know from.

their genomic analysis 10 times more. genes are activated in the micelium of. lion's mane than in the lion's mane. mushroom itself. Why is that? Well, the. mcelium has to navigate these thin. threads through a hostile microbial. environment defending itself until the. mcelium mat becomes large enough at the. end of its life cycle to produce a fruit. body and then lion's mane mushrooms rot. in 4 days. The mcelium that grew it. could could exist for years. The mcelium. is the immune system of the mushroom and.

as a result we have a lot more compounds. being expressed. Now some people say. well not all those compounds necessary. are beneficial. Uhhuh. Well, that's. true. But now we've tested them enough. that we can see real world benefit. Dean. Orish just published a study this past. year uh on Alzheimer's using lifestyle. uh adjustments. uh exercise, meditation, vitamins, and. lion's mane, mushroom, and mcelium.

dramatically significant benefit in. slowing down the progression of. Alzheimer's through lifestyle vitamins. and using lion's mane much of mycelium. Now, which did what? Yes, you can try to. analyze that, but you'd have to separate. every single little component to see. which one's the most significant. And. yet where's the studies combining 10. vaccines or 20 vaccines in a child to. see which one is actually conferring the. benefit or causing uh an adverse effect.

We have to at some point you know don't. let the perfect be the enemy of the. good. At some point if it has a. demonstrable positive effect like we. have with bees. and it protects agriculture and extends. the longevity of bees and it supports. the indogenous immune system and healthy. individuals. Isn't that good? Why do we have to get. lost in the details of trying to explain. it? If we can't explain it, then we. won't let it be out there for the.

benefit of the commons. They were cross. purposes. This is where science needs to. have common sense and the government and. the regulatory industry needs to have. common sense and we get that by. exemptions, emergency exemptions and we. should get that for emergency exemption. Right now we are on a bee apocalypse. We. are folks 67% of beehives lost in. Montana. What if that was a human population, right? All hands on deck, right? So it is and there is a. transference of viruses between animal.

species. We're seeing that in real time. Now the scariest thing is is when you. have multiple viral infections in one. person who's immuno compromised and you. have horizontal gene transfer. This is. what veriologists very amongst. themselves. They talk about this all the. time but but the public is not aware. You could have individuals and when you. have so many dairy farm farmer workers. exposed so many people in contact clust.

consolated clusters of animal animals in. farms. You have so many potential. patient zeros. The patient zero is a person who is the. nexus for spreading a mutated form of a. virus. Horizontal gene transfer is. happening all the time now. Now it's. concentrated. It's accelerating. is an. exponential increase of risk. Bill Gates. has talked about this. Many other. researchers have talked about this. This.

is really something we should pay. attention to. And I think the simplest, easiest, scalable way is enhance. immunity in healthy individuals. And by. doing so, I think you can let your. indogenous immune system work better. And I think conventional medicine will. work better also in concert. But al it. also speaks to the problem with. industrial agriculture in general, right? These are unnatural environments. where these animals are, you know, living in their own waste on a. consistent basis which is you know it it.

enhances the possibility of disease. and regenerative agriculture enhances. the possibility of harmony amongst. nature. And then the counterargument is that we. have better nutrition. We can feed the. world. So the people are more people. happier. You know, again, we're at this we have. contrast of opposites and um I wish I. had the easy solution. I think I have. the solution for bees. I think it's.

scalable for protecting chickens and. livestock. I hope you know and we're now. designing clinical studies on the path. to designing clinical studies with bird. flu using a garacon. We don't have the. results, so I'm not making a medical. claim here, but the evidence so far is. so encouraging. And I'm working with. top-notch veriologists, absolutely some. of the best veriologists who came to me. because they saw the paper and nature. scientific reports. And I thought, ah, fungi, fungi could help us, you know,

protect ourselves against viruses. So, they came through the back door of the. scientific community, not not a Joe. Rogan listener. They might be, I don't. know, maybe they are now. Um but they. came to me through the scientific. literature saying we should try this. with people. So those are the scientists. I like that are open-minded enough that. rather than being just a molecular. geneticist you know synthetic bio people. they're actually saying well it's a. provable result we don't know why but we. should explore this because we can argue.

for hundred years about why or we could. deliver it tomorrow and have a positive. effect. Yeah it makes sense. I have to ask you. this question. And it's unrelated, but I. always wanted to know. Why do morel. mushrooms grow around burns? That is that is such a great question. And you know what? That's a question. that we've been asking for so long. The. I love morel mushrooms. I love morel mushrooms, too. Uh you. know, they are poisonous. Unless you cook them.

Really? Yeah. Oh, boy. That's important to know. Many people have died from morel. mushrooms. Yeah. Wow. That's crazy. You don't want to. cook morel mushrooms in a closed kitchen. without ventilation. There are volatile. compounds coming out of the morelss with. totally denatured in cooking. Delicious. But many many examples of this in Japan. I was in Japan, you know, 15 years ago. So if you don't have an overhead fan, don't fry morels in your. Oh yes, you open up the window, but just. don't inhale the fumes. Wow. Many would never imagine. The North American Micological.

Association is the association for. Canada, Mexico, and the United States. And there's a poison control group in. that and they collect all the all the. details. It's namico.org namco.org. and they're they're the go-to place. ironically because of Hippo rules. The micologists have been disconnected. from the patients and the medical. community because now there is a. firewall between them. We can anonymize.

the case reports, but there's a firewall. of information because of HIPPA and. disclosure of the patient conditions. that has really inhibited the flow of. information. Nevertheless, namico.org, North American Micological Association, namy.co.org, and my professor, Dr. Michael Bug is a. giant you know in consulting with um for. adverse effects and mushroom poisonings.

Uh so morelss are delicious but to. answer your question that we morel. mcelium seems to be everywhere then for. horse burns and they come up. right. where were they before. right. do they do they exist in places that. don't have burns. yes. but rarely. no we think all the time. all the time very common amongst burns. they're everywhere a forest are right. and when a forest burn it knocks down. all the competition. ah. and it becomes very alkaline.

and the absence of organic material and. competitors competitor fungi the change. in the pH and so I think we think also. from the guy hypothesis point of view. it's a great way of nature to rebound. because they're sinful they attract. animals they attract insects and birds. come in drop seeds and then they become. an oasis point for the regeneration of. an ecosystem. this never underestimate the. intelligence of nature and nature just.

figure this out. You know, nature does. not exist in a vacuum. There's always. these repopulation vectors happening and. it's collaborative. It's not. competitive. There is competition between the fungi, but when the competitors are knocked. down, the morels come come up. That's fascinating. Another fascinating. thing is that the largest living. organism on Earth in the Pacific. Northwest. Yeah. Armaleria. Yeah. Some people call Galica. Two. different things, but yeah, I flew over. it. It's a 2200 acre, you know, basically a clearcut because it killed.

all the trees. In my book, Myelium. Running, I have the best photographs of. the largest organism in the world. And I. hired an airplane and first time I. couldn't see it because I was too low. Second time I had a spiral up. Can you explain what it is to people? It's a honey mushroom is a parasite on. trees. It's edible. Um, the honey. mushrooms on hardwoods tend to taste. better, but this one is on conifers. Um, and it's a comes up in clusters. It. forms black black ryomorphs, black.

mcelium. It's called laminated root rot. Many listeners here know what that is. It kills fruit trees. Um, but this is a. marauding parasite that created a. contiguous mat over 2,200 acres. And um, in this case, it killed all the trees. So they went ash and gray in color and. they dried out and they're dead. Uh. because of fire hazard from lightning. strikes, the forest service came in and. they cut all the dead trees and they. created this beautiful outline of the.

largest micelium mat in the world. because you could see where the dead. trees were. Can we see what that looks like an. image? I'm trying to find a good picture. It's also in mcelium running. Um so um. but anyhow that's an example now. Oh, kill the trees. That's terrible. But it. created grasslands for uncle lakes, right? You know, so deer and moose, elk can. come in. So, it's way of And I think. it's a way of this rebalancing of. nature, right? Where. you're dealing with millions and. millions of acres,

millions and millions of acres. There is. a real big problem with um the bark. beetle right now. You know, that's a. problem. It's it's the ecosystems are. shifting in response to stress. and you know with our mind's view of. only one lifetime we are very myopic. I. think we need to look at a thousand. year. I mean, what is the lens of time. that we actually look at ecosystems? What's the right lens to use? Depends.

upon your vested interests. You know, as. a human, as a deer, as an ecosystem, they could be very different, right? It's just such a fascinating thing. The. largest known organism on Earth. exists in the Pacific Northwest. And it's one cell wall thick. That's so nuts. Think about its immune system. You know. what I found out recently that I had no. idea? Aspen trees. When you see aspen. trees, it's one plant. Yeah. It's one contiguous thing. They're. the two competitors for that title, by.

the way. Isn't that nuts? Yeah. They're the two competitors. When you see these I I always thought. when you see aspen forests that it's a. bunch of different individual aspen. trees, right? Nope. No. You know, there's all sorts of. amazing discoveries. Here's one that. blows my mind and um I had to write it. down because it's a new species. There. is a fungus that's related to araggot. It's in the uh cleavete.

and it was found by a student at Western. uh Virginia University. It is in morning glory seeds that. produces LSD. Well, Terrence talked about that. No, this is before teralked. about morning glory seeds and having. psychedelic experiences. It turns out it's a symbiotic fungus. that's growing in there and it's called. it's called paraglondula. clandestina and don't. what a great name clandestina the. clandestine. Don't they do something to commercial. morning glory seeds to make sure that.

people don't trip on them? I don't know. I think they do. I think that's another. thing that Terrence was talking about. how gross it was that they they alter. morning glory seeds because they knew. that people were using them for. psychedelics. Well, if they sterilized them or used a. fungicide that would make sense but a. graduate student need to give her credit. is a Western uh Virginia University. Karine Hazel. and Daniel. Yes, there it is. Look how young she is. Very young. She made a discovery hereto. for unknown to science and not only it.

produces these LSD compounds, it is a. symbiotic fungus helping the morning. glory survive. Amazing. Think about every young person out. there. The field of micology is. underfunded, underststudied, under. report under reportported, underutilized. This is a fantastic treasure trove of. new potential discoveries. Um, I have. long stated I think the field of. micology should be funded as well as the. computer industry because it's so.

fundamental to the survival of our. species. It's that big. No, I I couldn't agree with you more. Did you you're you're aware of Brian. Mror Rescue, right? That was one of the. more fascinating things that they found. in those when they studied those voses. that they found urgot in them. Yeah. From the Illusinian mysteries. Has Brian tripped yet? I don't know. You have to ask him. I love it when scientists and. researchers. don't admit that they've tripped, but I.

can. I don't know if it's a non-admission. I. think in his case, he wanted to be. objective, so he wanted to study these. things without um being. he's worried about being labeled as. someone who's promoting them because. they like it. Well, an extreme example, but it has. some merit. I mean, would you rather be. taught by an airline pilot has. experience or someone who just read a. book? Yeah. So the late uh Roland Griffith, he's a. dear friend, John's Hopkins. He is.

credited as being the big pioneer for. psilocybin and medical research. When I asked him, have you tripped on. psilocybin? When I was at his house in the backyard, I said, he just smiled. He said, I'm not. going to answer that question. Well, then after he died, I met some of his. friends. and he goes, "Oh yeah, Roland Roland. tripped." But he didn't want to tell. anyone because for the fear. that he could lose his objectivity or be. criticized.

Yeah. He was. Rick Stman had a an interesting. perspective on that too. When I first. met him, he was very reluctant to talk. about DMT experiences that he had. personally because he had run those FDA. studies. documented in DMT the spirit molecule, the book. He was very reticent to talk about it. and then he sort of came out of the. closet on that. fully. And then when I asked Rowan's. friends, well, where did he like to. trip? Because you're in a hospital. environment with all these doctors and. you know, your stress levels go up just.

being in a hospital environment. And he. said, "Well, Roland's favorite place to. trip was on a mountaintop with three. friends with a beautiful view and a. fire.". Perfect, perfect, perfect. What's the quality of. experience? Now again this is for. healthy normals. not people who need to have medical. assistance but there are some very good. psychotherapists out there and. psychonauts. in the in the psychedelic assisted. therapy movement the center the.

California institute for integrative. studies cis. I think.org oreedu. has a program training psychedelic. therapists. You don't have to be a. medical a physician to be a be able to. hold someone hand to have a guided. experience. Now, there's a lot of. charlatans out there. Be be warned, folks. There's a lot of. problems. That's a lot. That is a problem. But there are some excellent therapists. out there.

And for many people who can't get into a. clinical study, be careful. Consult a. qualified medical practitioner. Put that. on the record. But a lot of people have. benefited. without having to go through traditional. medical, you know, you know, constructs. of a hospital, right, to have benefits. And then they're reluctant to talk about. it because the illegality of it, unfortunately. And, you know, if you. have a job that is, you know, where you. have to be taken seriously. It was you could be lose your medical.

license. Um but the University of. Washington Tony Back, Anthony Bach, published a clinical study on using. psilocybin for physicians and nurses who. were emotionally harmed and distressed. by people angry at them because of COVID. in the hospital and they were spit upon. and they were attacked viciously. physically sometimes in the hospital. they have PTSD but just trying to.

provide good medical support. So he did. a clinical study that was published this. last year showing the benefits because. the nurses and physicians when they got. out of the system they can't provide. medical care society loses. So they were. able to reconcile the emotional harm. that they experienced from angry. patients um and being assaulted and they. were able to then return many of them. back into the medical profession you. know with a you know healing from that. So you realize aggression and anger.

affects everyone around you. Mhm. The advantage of psilocybin, I think, just like a pebble in the pond. of a tragedy creates ripples of distress. throughout society. When someone who is highly adversely. affected, angry and, you know, violent. and all these antisocial behaviors, when. they suddenly switch just like that, it's a pebble in the pond of positivity.

A great example, a law enforcement. officer by the name of Sarco from Boston. just received his religious exemption. for using psychedelics. So he is a police officer and his chief. of police is now retired. He has been an. advocate because he saw Sarco who. experienced all these negative you love. to have him on the show sometime. he can.

really speak authoritatively to other. law enforcement officers saying this has. helped me. So I have a law enforcement officer. I'd love to talk to him. I I I'd love to for you. He's the real. deal. I have a RCMP officer friend in. Vancouver who took me to his favorite. psilocybin mushroom shop in Vancouver. I. couldn't believe it. We walked in this. salai mushroom shop. They didn't know. who I was thankfully. Um, and they were. selling the stem of stack, which is kind. of weird because I had my name on it. Um, and we walk in there and say, "This.

is this is where I tell all my law. enforcement officers to come to take to. get their psilocybin." I really I said, "I'm sorry, but I I'm trying to chip. position this, you know, how does this. work?" And he goes, "Well, you know, this is good perhaps for ICE also." He. said, "You know how, you know, in in. United States, law enforcement officers. are aggressive and mean. They tend to. intimidate you and, you know, subjugate. you." He says, 'We found a better way up. here. It's through psilocybin. I said, 'Well, what do you do? I says, 'Well, we.

have learned the following. Now, when I. have to rush somebody, I know they have. a warmth out for them. I walk up to them. and I say, and I I always walk up with a. smile on my face, never a harsh look, always a smile on my face. I said, I have good news and I have bad news. What do you want to hear first? He said, 'Invariably, everybody wants to say, '. Tell me the good news. And he goes, 'The. good news is you can finish your cup of. coffee. And they go, okay, what's the bad news,

dude? I got to arrest you. And he goes, the amount of cooperation and the. reduction of the threat level for the. safety of the law enforcement and the. cooperation that they get in the SWAD. car when these people that are just. shooting the [ __ ] at the law enforcement. officer. I know you're doing your job, but wow, thank you for being so nice. arresting me. You know, he said it's a. gamecher. It's reduced the threat to us. physically of making arrests. It makes sense. It doesn't escalate. Yeah. It doesn't escalate. They.

deescalate it. And he goes, "You won't. believe the things I learn, you know, from these people you're arresting now, you know, who tell me things I've never. gotten out of an interrogation that they. were so respected. and the fact that they had to do their. job without becoming adversarial.". Yeah. Note to self, right? Note to everyone. right now. Note to everyone. And you all conflicts. involve two or more people. It doesn't. they're not it's not just this is the.

only way to react to something. Yeah. It's how you react, how they react to. your reaction. There's a cascading. effect. Well, I have great faith in humanity. I've seen the I have the seen the best. I mean, I've seen people. Most people are great. Most people are great and they're better. when they go through a psilocybin. experience. that amplifies the best of. people and it also helps them resolve a. lot of the baggage. You can think of the inflammatory.

actions of the anger and you did. something and you don't want to tell. anybody but you're haunted by that. Yeah. You inadvertently harmed somebody and. you went off the deep end, you harmed. somebody else. It's a cascading event of. harm. Yeah. And when you these people are resolved. like that was a bad chapter in my life. I had one really bad day or maybe a. series of them, but that does not define. me, who I am as a person. I have a. better self and it's now and in the. future, right? It's not in the past.

Yeah. That's the perspective we should. all have and that's the thing that we. should all strive for. Be the best. version of you that you can be. Y. and you we've all made terrible mistakes. in the past, but the the idea is to have. learned from them and to be a better. person because of that. Well, the. medical community has come together on. this on psychedelics. The law. enforcement community has come together. You know, I. it's positive. We're in a positive. direction. I had a my interview by the DEA and it.

was they were I had I thought they were. the boogeyman in 70s for good reason, by. the way. But um I shouldn't say that, but um but I went through my background. check and um and the DEA has such a. sense of humor. I said, 'Okay, Paul, you. know, you come out clean. You don't have. a record. Everything is fine, you know, but we have to talk to you about. something that happened in 1994 in De. Moines's Washington. Really? Yeah. I'm going, what happened in 1994 in De Moines,

Washington? He says, "Are you sure you. don't remember?" And they're they're. role playinging here. I didn't know it. at the time. I go, "No, I I don't know. remember. I wonder if sometimes people. just confess to something that because. they're fishing. I I said, "I have no. clue. No clue." He goes, "Are you sure? I'm This is your official response. You. don't remember." I said, "No, I don't. remember." He says, "Didn't you get a. speeding ticket?". And I said, "I paid that. It was from.

those machines. It was from a camera. I. know I paid it. I could dig out the. receipt. It was like 35 bucks." And you. know, and they just roared with. laughter. They're just [ __ ] with you. They're [ __ ] with me. And what they. told me is that we don't know [ __ ] about. mushrooms or psilocybin. We're an. enforcement agency. Many of us don't. agree with us. Change the law. We want to go after syndicates. We want. to go after fentanyl. We want to go after these, you know, these these these. these things that are not beneficial in. any way, shape, or form. Said we don't want to hurt the source.

that is healing us, right? But they won't [ __ ] around when it comes. to money transactions. Right. Once you involve money, then the DEA is going to be involved. But you're involved in research and we. we have strict guidelines. I had DEA. license in, you know, 1975, 1976,77 and. 78. um through Dr. Michael B at the Everett. State College and they were much more. liberal. I could grow tons of soul. mushrooms and collect them. And that's. why we did a series of conferences. I.

was the only one that had a DEA license. So we did these conferences collecting. all these experts together with Albert. Hoffman there. Gordon Wson, Richard. Evans Schulties, you know, Jonathan. Aught, Terrence McKenna, but I had the. license to be able to possess psilocybin. with my professor. And so we would have. all the psilocybin. So we did these. educational events, you know, academic. with citizen scientists and psychonauts. coming together. was really different is.

we just had at the psychedelic science. maps conference in Denver 8,500 people. back in the 1970s at any moment we were. afraid that a SWAT team would break down. the doors and arrest everybody. We. existed in a high state of paranoia. because that was a war on drugs with. Richard Nixon. And now it's totally. different. Now you have law enforcement. officers. You have Rick Perry. You have. all these in New Mexico. They legalized.

the prescription of. psilocybin. This is a citizens move movement. It's a. democratic movement for the freedom of. consciousness. And you everyone should. have a right to have uh to be able to. practice. And where do you draw. individual you uh use from religious. use? Psilocybin mushrooms are very. important for my own personal religion. I feel that this is central to my. religious belief.

So I think this is where the government. needs to back off. If you're using it. for your spiritual development, whether. you're Buddhist or Christian or Islamic, you know, or Judeaic, you know, this. informs your spirituality, reduces crime, it reduces harm, reduces, you know, potential for violence. This is a gamecher. I think we're in the. psilocybin revolution and psilocybin. mushrooms are fundamentally different. than MDMA and.

and I gain just because I gain so long. and those heart issues. I just think. this is a medicine for our times that. can make a paradigm shift for a better. society. I couldn't agree more. That's a good way. to end this. Thank you, Paul. Show up. show hold your book up there because. this is the the latest of eight books. that you've written. Yes, psilocybin mushrooms in their natural. habitats. Paul, you're a gem. You really. are. You're you're such an important. person. And I think um through the. conversations that you and I have had.

and then you've had on many other. podcasts as well, millions and millions. of people have gotten to understand what. this is really all about. And I think. your role in educating people is is. enormous. It's but let's be very careful with. that. I'm a one knowledge keeper. literally in a string of knowledge. keepers. So many people have died, been. harmed and indigenous people. I am. carrying the torch and I want to pass. this torch with pride, with dignity, with respect, with kindness, with. positivity to the next generation. The.

next generation needs to be empowered. with this, and they can do an excellent. job, knowing what's happened in the. past, and foretelling what we could be. in the future. The best of the best. I think you're doing just that. So, thank you. I appreciate you very much, brother. Thank you. Thank you. All right. Bye, everybody. [Music]. [Applause]. [Music].